Messages

2461

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 26, 2014, 06:49:20 pm »

Awesome suggestion! I haven't mined the forums for all the gems lying there, only the mod website (and even that probably not entirely).

I will certainly use the grav armor, it looks like a great mod! Probably leave it as is and add it to the list of suggested mods.

Thank you!

2462

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 26, 2014, 03:48:36 pm »

haha well, that might be right. Hopefully the laser sniper rifle and scatter laser find some takers. I'll use 'em for sure!

With the new laser and plasma research mods, plus an added emphasis for alien alloy, it should make the game pretty cool.

I'm thinking of at least recommending your jump armor (the one made from the floaters), as it makes sniper rifles much easier to use. In my few games, my dedicated sharpshooter is spending so long getting in position (usually clearing a building while trying to get on its roof) that the rest of the squad has had time to finish off all the aliens before I get to snipe anything Being able to just float up would make a huge difference (and might be a bit OP, but I'm thinking of adjusting aimed shots so you can only get one, and floating armor to reduce the soldier's accuracy since armor can impact stats).

2463

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 26, 2014, 03:17:00 pm »

Awesome! There are surprisingly few mods for laser weapons. Lots for conventional ones and some for plasma, but no love for lasers..? They are by far my favorite weapons.

Thank you!

2464

Work In Progress / Re: [RESEARCH/PROGRESSION] Lasers from Heavy to Pistol

« on: July 26, 2014, 03:14:58 pm »

Nice! Got them all and will give 'em a try. Good work!

2465

Work In Progress / Re: [RESEARCH/PROGRESSION] Lasers from Heavy to Pistol

« on: July 26, 2014, 05:30:03 am »

Well, it's a trade-off. You can research plasma pistol for 600 scientist-days, plus the clip for 400 (total: 1000), or research the laser pistol for 310 scientist-days. Of course, in the end, the aim is to make you research both: the laser pistol because you want a better  pistol now, and later the plasma pistol because you want the best pistol (and to unlock the plasma tree, if you use a plasma research tree).

IF you couple this mod with something that restricts plasma research and requires a "Plasma Weapons" research before researching anything (and after Elerium-115), this means you could have a decent pistol with lasers much earlier than you would have the "best" pistol with plasma.

I agree it is a bit wasteful, but some tweaking of the laser pistol accuracy (to make it closer to the plasma one, much like the laser rifle is close to the plasma one in terms of accuracy) and profitability (selling compact laser pistols could be worth quite some money with.. organized crime?, whereas bulky heavy lasers/laser cannons shouldn't) and suddenly, the laser pistol could be worth researching.

It requires some thinking, as I agree that the laser pistol is not really a sought after weapon, but I am also wary of increasing the time before laser rifles are accessible much more compared to the original game, or changing the total time of the laser research tree.

2466

Work In Progress / Re: [RESEARCH/PROGRESSION] Lasers from Heavy to Pistol

« on: July 25, 2014, 10:34:24 pm »

I would be happy to see those times used! Then I didn't work on it for nothing

Regarding the pistol times, I like the idea of keeping it higher since it makes the total time of the laser research line the same as the original, which I personally think is important. It reduces the impact of the mod on the overall game: If a player used to research all laser weapons before, using your mod should not change the experience significantly beyond inverting the research order which is its one intended purpose.

Although the time seems long since it is tripled, it is still half the time required to research the plasma pistol and gives you a pistol with free ammo and ~90% of the damage (46 vs 52). Tweaking its accuracy (it is actually much less accurate than a plasma pistol. I never realized that. Rifles are much closer to each other.) and profitability (it is highly miniaturized, so should be sought after; also compensates from the potential decrease in profit of the other weapons) could make it more attractive too.

Also, if you combine your mod with something like the "Plasma Needs Elerium" mod with its tech tree (another weapons tech tree tweak which would make sense to use with this one), the plasma pistol will come after Elerium and Plasma Weapons (A new step similar to the Laser Weapons step); plus you need to research the clip too (an additional 400 scientist-days, for a total of 1000 scientist-days just for the pistol, excluding the pre-requisites!). The laser pistol, at 300, doesn't look so bad.

I never looked at the profitability of manufacture, as that is something that never occurred to me when playing the game (my engineers are usually busy building something I need, not running their own little arms factory!). I fully agree that reducing the profits on the early laser weapons (from you mod: Cannon/Tank/Heavy) would make a lot of sense, since they would be the most approachable to other weapons manufacturers. Especially if they happen to be some of the most profitable weapons of the game!

2467

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 25, 2014, 09:30:30 pm »

Thanks! But really, none of these crafts are my work. The only thing I am doing is getting them all together into a coherent whole that fits neatly into an expanded research tree, trying to keep everything relevant.

I have to give the following credits for the crafts:
Alloy Interceptor and Skyranger: The Old One
(Note: Those need to be renamed as the strings overflow their space in the game. Suggestions are welcome)
Retaliator: Shadow
Thunderstorm: Tyran_nick
Raven: MickTheMage
Sentinel: Warboy1982
Skywarden (as a renamed SkyTransit): civilian

Other inspiration/things that will be added in the future:
Craft/Craft weapons balance: Istrebitel
Allow Ammunition: moriarty
Plasma needs Elerium: TurkishSwede

As I mentioned in a previous post, there will only be few weapons to be included in the XCom Armoury Expanded and most of those already exist. Those are the conventional and laser equivalent of the plasma caster and sniper rifle along with alloy ammunition for the basic conventional weapons.

The new plasma weapons in the Alien Armoury Expanded need their conventional and laser counterparts, otherwise it looks stupid. If aliens can come up with a shotgun and sniper rifle, so can we! Especially as those are already common Earth weapons.

Alloy ammo is just because it makes too much sense to use it for basic weapons as well as crafts and armor for a first step upgrade from Earth tech.

I am very much interested by the recently posted laser research mod by NeoWorm and a version of it will likely make it into the recommended mods along with the plasma one. This is intended to free up some time in the early game during which alloy ammo can be used.

With the complete mod and recommended ones, one would probably first research alloys, unlock low rent alloy crafts, personal armor and alloy ammo. Then pursue hybrid crafts and lasers together, as the next step up in tech, then UFO based crafts and plasma as end game tech.

The mod is meant to add just a few things to go along the Alien Armoury expanded (and slow down XCom's progression since the alien also retain lower grade weapons longer with the Armoury). The experience should stay streamlined (not a million new things, just a few simple ones) and close to the original.

Hopefully, other mods will then come and graft themselves on top of this one, to delve into whichever area their author wishes to develop. One such example being XCOMFan419's MWP mod. MWPs are fine (if a bit underpowered) in the original and there is enough variety that nothing feels outright overlooked/missing. There is still lots of space to expand on though, which is what he will do.

2468

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 25, 2014, 08:44:39 pm »

The new skyrangers are pretty cool. The reduction in rent with the new crafts is a godsend if you want to have radar and interception coverage worldwide before getting firestorms. And 16 troops within one carrier is pretty nifty. I wish there were more exits though, but apparently that was a really bad idea.

The picture references for the Retaliator and Raven were indeed the same (much like.. all other file references. One of these mods must be based on the other!). I changed both to new, unique names, so hopefully it works now. I made a new archive, even though there are only minor changes in the .rul file.

2469

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 25, 2014, 08:26:29 pm »

Ah! Damn.. I tested each as they got implemented but did not notice that the retaliator took over the raven picture.. I guess it makes sense since it originally also took over the in-base graphics.

2470

Work In Progress / Re: [RESEARCH/PROGRESSION] Lasers from Heavy to Pistol

« on: July 25, 2014, 08:18:56 pm »

Very interesting mod. I am liking the trend of more in depth thinking for the tech tree. If the issue with lasers is indeed miniaturization, it would certainly make sense to have things the way you have them in the CannonFirst or TankFirst version.

I usually research the laser rifle ASAP, so I can use it for all my soldiers until I have amassed enough plasma clips to reliably use them without much manufacturing (I am an Elerium miser). The side effect is usually that right after the rifle, I got for Alloys -> Personal Armor -> UFO stuff & Plasma, never bothering to complete the laser tree. This way would force me to get to the research that I never do.

I would, however, tweak the research times further. The laser pistol is usually a pretty quick research, which it still is in your mod. Usually, the last improvement is the hardest one to get when it comes to miniaturization (you've already used all the easy tricks). Conversely, at 420 scientist-days, the cannon takes a WHILE at the beginning, especially with a small research crew.

The total cost of the laser line in the vanilla game is: 50+100+300+460+420 = 1330 scientist-days
Heavily back loaded (rifle at 450)

In TankFirst, it is: 50+300+300+460+100 = 1210 + 420 (for the tank) = 1630 scientist-days
Roughly even but longer overall (rifle at 1110!)

In CannonFirst, it is: 50+420+300+460+100 = 1330 + 300 (for the tank) = 1630 scientist-days
Even more front loaded (rifle at 1230!)

I would consider recosting things like:

Laser Tank: 250
Laser Cannon: 170(or the other way around in the CannonFirst mod)

With the most expensive of the two being the first researchable one and unlocking the cheaper one. It's a large project at the beginning, but the benefits are obvious. Either a new weapons for crafts or a better tank to escort your rookies. Split this way, the cannon and tank add up to the original 420, but you can do the optional one later so it's no SO front heavy.

Heavy Laser: 250 (more than twice as much as the original's pistol; but once you know how to fit it on a tank/plane; it should be accessible to make it portable; also, you need to give the squaddies something to keep up with the aliens! and Heavy > Pistol)

Laser Rifle: 300 (Same as in the original, but happens after 50+250+250+300 = 850 scientist-days, instead of the original's 450. 400 scientist-days is more than a month later with the starting crew, or more likely ~10-15 days with a dedicated growing lab)

Laser Pistol: 310 (Makes it half the research time of the plasma pistol which seems reasonable)

The total for the whole line is:
50 + 250 + 250+ 300 + 310 = 1160 + 170 (for the optional tank or craft cannon) = 1330, like the original, but more evenly distributed so it's not so harsh at the beginning, and it now makes sense to research everything.

Whichever optional one is fast at 170 once you get your lab going, so it's worth it for a new craft weapon or tank.
Faster pistol than plasma to give to your explosive users is good too, especially if you use some restrictive plasma tree.

This mod would work particularly well with an alien ammo mod. It delays the distribution of laser rifles to everyone which makes the new ammo for the old rifles useful for longer.

2471

Suggestions / Re: Civilians in transport should count as saved

« on: July 25, 2014, 06:10:07 pm »

Reaction fire would work: They don't go out hunting for Aliens (that's our job!) but they shoot 'em if they see 'em walking on the lawn!

On top of that, having something where civilians either stay at home/indoors or walk towards your craft would be a huge improvement.

2472

Released Mods / Re: [RESEARCH/PROGRESSION] Plasma Needs Elerium-115

« on: July 25, 2014, 06:05:18 pm »

The rules for the plasma cannon are already in the Alien Armoury Expanded rules file, which states that once you research any of:
- Plasma Rifle + Clip
- Plasma Sniper Rifle + Clip
- Heavy Plasma + Clip
- Plasma Blaster + Clip

You unlock the research for Plasma Cannon. Given the progression enforced by this mod, you will get the research project after researching the rifle, as you need the rifle for all the other potential unlocks. This is a bit unfortunate, as I would prefer the cannon to be unlocked after Heavy Plasma at the earliest, but it is how the vanilla game works too.

I have attached a polished version of the mod as I am currently using it. With @TurkishSwede's permission, I can upload it to the mod website too.

2473

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 25, 2014, 05:43:30 pm »

Awesome, thank you! I am looking forward to the feedback.

HWP have always seemed like such a waste to me, except maybe at the beginning for a rocket one and base defense where they don't really cost you anything. Otherwise, I'd much rather take 4 rookies that I hope to train into super-soldiers. Even if only one makes it, it was worth not having the HWP. So that means: LOTS of space for new stuff!!

My view of mods is that we should try to keep them compatible but separate. As much as the "Final Mod Pack" looks awesome, it is too much for me to take in at once. I'd rather go through and enable the 60 mods individually (or the 59 I want and leave off the 1 I don't), knowing that the modders talked to each others to make compatible mods.

If you want to "latch on" the XCom Armoury Expanded, I would be very happy to collaborate. Regarding HWP, there are already opportunities with the new code in this mode. One could make HWPs with alien alloy hulls after researching Allow Airframes and maybe more accurate and even sturdier HWPs once Hybrid crafts is researched.

Another thing that could be really cool is a "learning HWP", which would address their main issue as far as I am concerned: They don't improve so it becomes much more efficient to bring 4 trained soldiers than one HWP. Having mind controlled HWPs that can actually progress would be awesome. It could be unlocked through a combination of Alien Entertainment (as a high tech interface) + Sectopod autopsy (the aliens' equivalent platform) + Psi Lab (the facility from where it would be controlled). Give it some cool weapons (AoE Plasma cannon? High RoF Laser?), potential to hover and now we're talking!

2474

Work In Progress / Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded

« on: July 25, 2014, 09:02:01 am »

Sounds very neat. I'll keep a close eye on this and try it out once you have a download up.

But the Raven is sketchy. Canonly, the Raven is the most advanced fighter craft humanity has to offer. I've seen two mods now that change the Raven. While this may be a bunch o' hooey due to UFO and 2012 being in different timelines, it's still a little awkward to see the Raven with an elerium engine.

But hey, that's just my opinion. You do what you wish. I'm sure this will turn out great.

Any plans for HWP or just crafts and weapons?

Awesome! Thanks for the info. One of the reason I am so enthusiastic about OpenXCom is that I have no computer capable of running the new game I had no clue about the Raven, it just looks so much better than the interceptor based crafts that it needed its own high tech place (which means using at least some alien components).

Maybe whoever developed the Raven from human tech in XCom-2012 is actually a scientist hired by XCom in this original, who will work on and name this Raven! As it is, the Raven uses UFO Power sources to be built, but does not use Elerium as fuel. The rationale being that it is a slow burning, safe, prototype engine since the Raven is the first human craft based on Alien propulsion.

As such, it is outclassed in almost every way (especially speed) by the Firestorm, the only exception being fuel economy. It sort of keeps the high tech feel of the Raven and its place relative to the Firestorm. It also makes the Raven better than Interceptors, the regular planes of 1999, which the Raven as a 2012 plane would be. It just happened to be developed differently since the UFOs came early

As for plans, currently the XCom Armoury Expanded aims mostly at being a counterpart to the Alien Armoury Expanded. Which means new crafts and a few new weapons, to keep everything in parallel.

The new UFOs can be quite challenging if everything is kept vanilla, so more crafts for XCom is relevant (it also slows down progression a bit through research, restoring the challenge, and gives something for the engineers to build in the early game: new interceptors for your new bases).

There are only a few new weapons I am considering. One is Alien Alloy ammo (if we use it for armor and crafts, it makes sense to use it for weapons too!).  Then conventional and laser versions of the new plasma weapons introduced in the Alien Armoury. If they can have a plasma sniper rifle, there is no reason why XCom can't have a laser sniper rifle (and then steal the plasma one, of course!).

I think further weapons should be kept to different mods. I prefer modular mods so each player can create their own perfect game, rather that the one mod to rule them all. That already exists any ways, in the Final Mod Pack, where maybe some of this work will end up.

Ouf.. I wrote more than I expected.. The main reason I came online was..: I have version 0.5 of the armory ready!! By that I mean I got all the crafts side of the mod done. There is now a few new research projects available, as shown in the first post, and the crafts are tweaked so they don't all overlap as a "next step up from Interceptors". It was roughly tested using a save game I had and going through the research to unlock everything, then build everything. I happened to have plasma beams already and the destruction that can be wrought by just one retaliator, one raven and one sentinel is beautiful!! There might be some tweaking of stats to do though.

I strongly suggest using this mod along with the Alien Armoury Expanded as they are intended to be counterparts. To go along with the more complex craft research tree I also made the "Plasma Needs Elerium Expanded" mod, which puts constraints on plasma research to slow down the squad weapons progression to be more in line with the crafts.

2475

Work In Progress / Re: Equal Terms Mod Discussion.

« on: July 25, 2014, 02:49:52 am »

No worries! I'm just trying to save you some work in the plasma department by mentioning the other mod. It has 3 new plasma weapons, but no tech tree restriction, like the original plasma.

Either way, it is certainly a mod worth checking out, as the new UFOs add some complexity to the game. (especially those fighters blowing up all my interceptors before they can disengage!)