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Messages - Cynus_X

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The X-Com Files / Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« on: July 18, 2020, 10:30:29 am »
Just did a regular cult base attack on the church of Dagon and came across Gillman carrying HKMP5. I don't know if this is a bug or intended, but I noticed that they didn't use their electrical attacks on me (or it was luck). I dont think they shot at me at all. Saying this because on a seamonster attack earlier they didn't use human guns.

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: July 15, 2020, 01:46:15 pm »
Because I vividly remember protesting with thousandths of other people in my city against the Iraq War, with millions of people prostesting against that worldwide. Most of whom where not affected by the invasion in the slightest. Different example - do you remember Princess Dianas death? Again, Millions of people worldwide mourning for somebody they had never personally met and who didn't actually have a measurable impact on their daily lives.
Really? Their tax dollars going to waste, sending their own country men into war, their personal belief that war is bad. You are comparing something that is known throughout human history to something people haven't seen yet for themselves or has been extensively covered by the news. There is a huge obstacle to be overcome for a normal person to believe in something extraordinaire told by a person who has no official validation.
And you don't have to meet someone in person to love them and consequently mourn for them.

Now imagine you (as in, the general public) are presented with proof that your country's leadership has signed over sovereignity to an outside force, and said outside force has just massacred a beloved idol/public figure. You bet the public will be going nuts and is going to demand answers.
Presented by whom? And its pretty ironic that you said that a reallife governments would not go that far in censorship to keep the citizens in the dark. Yet we are debating a government that has signed a pact with the aliens which allows them to perform human experiments... which is just as (un)likely.

Where do you get the info from that civilians present are killed, exactely?
Go to a monster attack and leave immedeatly. All civilians are killed according to the scorescreen.

If they are detained - indefinitely, apparently, according to you - what impact are wide-spread global detentions going to have? Wouldn't that make the public even more suspicious, especially if these happen in urban centers and affect a large number of people?
I never said indefinitely. I do think they are traumatized and are cared for by psychiatrist and put on a prescription. Making them believe they witnesses a homicidal maniac with a chainsaw for example.

But we are not talking about surveilance here. We are talking about aliens operating on sovereign soil with explicit consent of the government. With a newly build, heavily guarded public building that is regularely patrolled/visited by UFOs.
That depends on how far the alien influence around the embassy goes. I don't know what experiments are being done but I wouldn't be surprised if some mind control was going on.

We are talking about UN budgets and contributions here, not black budgets.
Again, you havent answered the question about who is going to check it if its deemed classified and how are they going to make it to the public.

Really? How does the general public "in the real world" react to aliens shooting up a public building? I must have missed that event. Do you see the difference? You are not comparing similar events - you are comparing the reaction of a public in a world where these things don't exist to the hypothetical reaction of a public in which these things are very much real and happening.
What happens when people think the world as they know it is about to end? They start buying up all the TOILET Paper and start fighting over it. Anarchy, mass hysteria. Long preservative food like pasta & canned food were sold out because people thought the supply chain was going to crumble.
Its not unlikely they are going to think their country is going to turn into a war zone very soon when they see aliens making an open attack. Yet you think they are just gonna vote. Say NO to aliens. Bad PR for the aliens is the only outcome and not a panic?

You completely disregard the impact the events and entities in XCF would have IRL, regardless of how well they would be hidden.
Ow, you mean how you completely disregard the impact it would have on the governments and their secret services. Like they wouldn't act on the fact they believe that the public CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH. And it does matter how well it is hidden otherwise we wouldn't be arguing.

You need to handwave magical accounts that can hide any budget irregularities,
So yeah, I'd argue that your argument is invalid if you need to resort to that.
If you are using the term magical for embezzlement then I'd say we are done here. This is turning into insults rather then a discussion. I think we both made clear were we are coming from and its not for us to decide where this goes. Its not that I disagree with you on most points its just that I think the opposite is just as possible in this fictional setting.

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: July 15, 2020, 01:16:03 am »
I am sorry, but i think i missed your train of thought here or what that was in reference to. How does talking about the general public vs. individuals make any difference here?
The general public is not moved when they think it doesn't affect their own or their loved ones lifes. . You think thousands if not millions of people will drop down their jobs, hobbies, social life because a few individuals are screaming something ludicrous as "the aliens are amongst us"?

But you're trying to compare it to a world population were these things don't exist and where there is no factual evidence for it. That isn't the case for XCF/the XCOM setting in general. That you hadn't heard of MUFON (or similar groups) before underscores that. Again, we don't have daily UFO flybys over major metropolitan cities, monster attacks or tourists being sacrificed to elder star gods, nor do we have any evidence at all for something like that to exist. In contrast, the world in XCF seems to be ripe with that information - so ripe in fact we have multiple government-sponsored factions infighting about access to it. People are going around eating zombies and are injecting/using a drug that's based on"very outlandish science" for starters. Those are the tame parts apparently.

The reason it is so easy to dismiss these things in the real world is because the setting isn't real.

Government-sponsored factions  is not the general public. The military is not the general public. Cults that eat zombies or Cults that track ufos are not the general public. We have the Council Salvage corps going around clearing sites of evidence and civilians present either get killed or detained thus not getting any hard evidence out. If there is no coverage on the mainstream media because of governmental interference (channels of general communication)  then the general populace reaction will not be that different. And dont forget, these cases are spread out across the world, not just in the U.S.

And it lead to widespread outcry and a change in policy, apparently:
Yes, and I brought that up because you made the point that the U.S government is not to make decisions that concern the wider public without their consent. Yet it happens.

Again, why does it have to be reported "in the news" to be noticed? You can't simply handwave in a magical accountant that makes everything invisible and untraceable. Things are reported and noticed, especially if they are related to financial matters.
Who is going to check the numbers? The tax authorities? No wait, they are with the government. Are the expenses from the military or say Area 51 public or classified, wouldn't they be put under the same post? And if someone independent finds the numbers, how are they going to make it public if the mainstream media is being checked.

Again, this is not comparable to our real-world setting, and you can't judge public reactions based on these things being none-existent. Point of divergence would be 1997 (starting out) or beforehand judging by later in-game lore.

You keep saying it is not comparable to our real-world setting, yet you do the same. You are allowed to say how the general public reacts to aliens shooting up a government building but I am not allowed to say how I think the world governments/council reacts to aliens/strange lifeforms by doing unconventional things to keep the public in the dark to prevent mass hysteria?

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: July 14, 2020, 07:09:12 pm »
But apparently information does get out regardless, judging by the numerous "citizen investigation"-missions and random events popping up. You assume that any such occurences have to be "officially" reported on to be noticed. That is simply not the case. You might be able to cover up one missing VIP, but multiple VIPs and/or their security detail being killed with no sufficient explanation? In an urban environment?
I have been talking about the general public since the beginning, not individuals.

Depending on country and statistics, at least in the US a third of household had a personal computer (and access to the internet, provided they also have a landline) as far back as 1997:
Which is on par with the UK:

If you have access or knowledge of other statistics for other countries i'd like to read them.

Every household I knew or was visiting back then had a computer and access to the internet. But that's just from personal experience. Again, not everybody needs access to a PC or the internet for information to disseminate. Even if "the Internet" is the only source, enough people actually talked to other people face-to-face or via telephone back in the day for that to work. All it takes is somebody that has access to that source of information and can share it with other people.
Like I said, most households. And internet was crappy back then and you had to pay for each minute, which doesn't encourage most people to conduct a thorough investigation unless they already had an interest (which most people just don't). And this goes for the first world, but what about the rest of the world.

You are confounding the mod with reality. As far as I know earth isn't under attack from prehistoric sea monsters, zombies, aliens or cults. Nor do we have actual daily UFO-flybys over major population centers. Right now we are our own worst enemy, which is plenty enough.
Isn't that what this entire discussion is about? What would the government(s) and populace do if these were real?  As far as I know, people who believe in aliens aren't taken seriously. I never even heard of MUFON until now. It isn't far fetched that the council makes it a priority to keep the civilians in the dark.  And considering it always ends up in a total massacre if you leave the civilians to fend for their own, its probably not that hard to blame it on some good ol terrorists after the fact.

Does the council actually have total control over all media? That seems kind of absurd tbh. That would equate to massive or universal censorship which I find hard to believe if XCF is supposed to have a grounding in reality.
Why does that seem so absurd? Its just every article regarding  alien activity. There have been plenty of coverups already, its not that hard to imagine the US government (or any other government) cranking it up.

But not if we're talking about actual treaties that concern multiple parties including the wider public:

Look at how many secrets Edward Snowden revealed. All done by the U.S government, some of which definitely concerned the US citizens. Preventing mass hysteria has always been a thing. What happens when a chemical plant explodes? The officials always say the same thing: there is nothing to worry about. There is most likely nothing dangerous in the air, but to be safe go home and close your windows.

Not only would the public be aware that something is going on, but that it might be in connection with their government cutting founding to a certain UN agency. As long this beenfits (or at least not overly harms) the general public they might be ok and turn a blind eye, but if these new visitors are openly hostile they might start asking themselves if their government has their best interest in mind.
You think the public is going to notice the cutting of founding a certain UN agency if its not reported in the news? No of course not. Some accountant will be able to make it invisible in the books.

Also important, do these UFO's make sound when they fly? Are they easy to see with the naked eye against the blue/night sky with their speed. Does anyone who is watching where he is going, notice an UFO flying over? Again, some individuals may notice but who is going to believe them.

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: July 14, 2020, 02:17:19 pm »
First off, you do realize that people have been able to disseminate information and news-stories in particular just fine, even before the advent fo social media? Regardles of government interference, apart from full-on dictatorships like North Korea?
You do realize that information has to get out for that to happen. What about info that never goes out? If a massacre never gets reported on, how are people with no relation to the place gonna find out about it?

And we are not talking about 1980s internet. XCF starts in 1996/1997 - that's the start of the first "dot-com"-bubble. AOL has been around since about 1991, Geocities since 1994. BBS services started even sooner. We're not quite at DSL yet, but around this time 56K was introduced/became widely available.
In 1999, most households didn't have a computer, let alone access to the internet.

MUFON and similar groups would have you believe otherwise. As would have the documented sightings beginning in the 1950s. If you have daily UFO flybys ("UFO activity is to be expected over major populated areas as a display of alien power") around the world even your best CCP-style government efforts won't be able to surpress that.
And how have the general public reacted to those? Waved away as fairytails. A few thousand members worldwide against 5 billion. And even if they are on the right trail, how would these reach genpop if the council is controlling the media? And don't you think the council would have put these organizations under surveillance the moment they realize that aliens become a threat?

The US - like many other countries is a republic. Republic litterally means public affair or public matter - citizens of a "classical" republic (disregarding countries like NK) elect officials that act on their behalf.  Even in those that don't, protests and public opinion matter to a degree that can influence the decisions made by the government or a head of state.
That is the idea yeah. But in reality most agreements happen behind closed doors.
And what about the secret services like the FBI & CIA. National security takes priority over public opinion and only the top officials know about what really goes on.

"Democracy is worth fighting for, but in the battle for democracy itself it is worthless". The arrival of hostile aliens call for drastic measures and keeping the population in the dark through any means necessary is one of them.

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: July 14, 2020, 11:42:49 am »
First of all, this is in an era before the internet went mainstream. So no smart phones and no social media, which means that covering up these local incidents is a lot easier for the council to manage if they control the media.
If the media didn't report about it, almost no-one would know about the conducts of the mafia, about cults doing their private practices, about drug-labs in urban areas, about what happens in the ghettos, about lunatics cutting animals up in the field, a mass murderer going on a killing spree, and this is in real life.
Alien flybys are to put the countries who are scanning the sky with radar under pressure, not the general populace who are minding their own business and not constantly watching the sky trying to differentiate between planes, UFOs and shooting stars.

Second, since when is it mandatory for "political agreements" to involve the public? You think the U.S government asks their citizens for approval before negotiating with Russia or China (in secret)? Most of those meetings never meet the public eye. And that is when you are talking about a "free" country.

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: July 13, 2020, 10:33:43 am »
What will the general public of that country think of "aliens" who massacre one of their beloved idols and their security? X-Com might not be able to change a political agreement made between a foreign government and alien forces, but what about the people who elected said government in the first place?

Isn't this supposed to be a secret war, away from the public? Every mission site gets cleaned & covered up by the council afterwards to prevent the general public from finding out about aliens. And you are talking about making it public risking the chance for mass hysteria.

The X-Com Files / Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« on: July 09, 2020, 12:17:18 pm »
I can't see the problem very well (you don't keep these hazmats after all)

It is not a major gripe or anything. Its just that there is no incentive to purchase these hazmat suits if you can use/rent them for free when the mission appears. And currently I am not at a point where I have an abundance of money so it felt like an exploit.

So what should be done here?

I thought that since my men were not equipped with the right Armour, the mission would either not go through (like when you want to start an undercover mission with the wrong transport), or the agents not wearing the right Armour would not partake in the mission (like how you can send 10 guys to an underwater mission but only 7 partake), or they would start with the wrong Armour equipped but they would receive an HP and/or stun penalty each turn for not wearing chemical resistant Armour, just like how an eerie aura drains sanity each turn.

The X-Com Files / Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« on: July 08, 2020, 05:24:23 pm »
Sending your crew to an OOZE nest with the wrong gear, automatically gives them Hazmat Armour. Since these cost $10000 a pop, this kinda feels like a cheat. Don't know if this goes for all the Armour you can select, mine were equipped with Tritanium vests.

The X-Com Files / Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
« on: July 08, 2020, 02:54:20 pm »
Okay. So apparently your agent gets the "Betrayer" commendation after he loses consciousness whilst carrying a live knockout grenade  :o. Seems a bit rude to put on his gravestone when his family visits his grave  ;D

Edit: The agent in question got hit by a grenade launcher, then passed out, and then his own knockout grenade killed him. Didn't know X-com was a catholic organisation to judge suicide so harshly  :D

OXCE Suggestions OK / Re: Jumping movement type
« on: July 06, 2020, 05:19:37 pm »
It would also be good to take the cost of traveling in the jump to the armor properties so that you can set the cost of resources for each tile passed in the jump - for example, that it would require more TU, and would not consume energy; or that the jump also uses mana, and so on.

If anything, jumping (skipping) a tile saves TU's, since you need momentum to cross that distances. So it would be more logical if it consume tons of Energy like it would in RL, maybe even cause a little stun. Would be even better if the amount of energy it cost is related to the amount of weight of equipment that is being carried so it would become an incentive to not pack your soldiers to the max they can carry. It would also be even more realistic if you needed to run at least 1 or 2 tiles prior to the jump.

On that note, I would also be interested in Climbing. Don't know how many times i've wished that was possible to mount a sniper on a ridge. For example, you would need 90% Tu's & Energy to move from tile "A1-lvl1" to "B1-lvl2", and you would need both hands free.

The X-Com Files / Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
« on: July 06, 2020, 01:17:00 pm »
I got some "criminal records" from the mission "shady Tavern". But I cant research it, nor does it show up in the tech tree. Which is peculiar since you can even research a drivers license. I thought they would give me some dossiers or an explanation like: These records contain the names of regular criminals not worth the attention of Xcom.

The X-Com Files / Re: Alien Embassies
« on: June 12, 2020, 01:41:20 pm »
The only way I can see a country reentering the fold is by 1: neutralizing the alien embassy, and 2: infiltrating the countries government with an agent who can mind control the important politician(s) .

Maybe even going as far as sacrificing an agent with high PSI-strenght/skill to keep controlling them. So you have to decide if its worth training up and losing a psi agent to get a country back. This or replace them with Hybrids with appearance altering cloak

However, I dont think the council would be too happy if X-com starts mind controlling/replacing world leaders.

The X-Com Files / Re: Weapon balance / meta
« on: November 24, 2019, 01:42:49 pm »
how game-breaking would it be to add stamina (kickback) and even morale (deafening noise) costs?

I would understand the stamina cost, but morale? If anything, that noise would boost your own morale and cripple the enemies. Miniguns are like modern wardrums.

The X-Com Files / Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
« on: November 18, 2019, 12:30:31 pm »
It seems Bughuntmode is back with the 1.0.2 patch.

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