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Open Feedback / What determines the order grenades detonate?
« on: August 15, 2017, 08:44:22 am »
I can't figure out how the order of grenade detonation works in TFTD when you throw multiple grenades in a single turn. In UFO it seems straightforward. The grenades go off in the order you throw them. This makes logical sense since grenades would have identical timers so the one you threw first would detonate first, the second would go off second and so on.


But in TFTD it seems inconsistent and random. I'm sure that it's not and that there is some pattern I can't detect, but they definitely don't go off based on the order you throw them. Anyone know how it works and if this is intentional or a bug?


It sounds trivial, but actually can be a little frustrating at times when you're trying to get a certain soldier a kill and then throw another grenade as backup, but the second soldier ends up getting the kill since his grenade goes off first. Or in the instance that just happened, had the grenades gone off in proper order, my man would have lived, but unfortunately they went off in reverse order and the last grenade I threw blew his cover so the earlier one which was closest to him killed him. :P


EDIT: I think they may go off based on position on the map rather than the order they are thrown, but I'm not 100% positive. And I don't know if this is how it should be or if it is an error.

EDIT 2: Apparently it doesn't go off in the order you throw them in UFO although I could swear it did.

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[RESOLVED ... I think]

I downloaded the zip file and extracted the files as I normally do without problem, but when I try to run OXC my anti-virus tries to block me saying that the file "might be dangerous" which never happens when I use OXC. I then clicked "I trust this file" to run it anyway, but I get a Windows error message saying "Windows cannot access the specified device, path or file. You may not have the appropriate permissions to access the item"

I tried to run it as administrator, but the same thing happened. I reverted back to the previous version of the Nightlies (3-3) and played no problem as always so it's something different with this version.

Anyone else having this problem or know how I can fix it? Thanks.

UPDATE: Apparently it was my antivirus blocking it. Hours later I got a popup saying that it had checked the application and it was clean. Weird though that this never happened before though, so don't know what changed. I also don't know why I couldn't run it even when I clicked "I trust this file," but anyway I'm all good for now.

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Playthroughs / Terror From The Deep Research ... WTF?!?
« on: February 21, 2017, 09:37:06 am »
Is the TFTD research tree the most convoluted thing ever? I finally finished researching Plastic Aqua Armor and expected to immediately move on to the next armor, but upon looking at the research tree, I see I need a live Deep One to move on any further in my research with armor or alien subs.

I cannot imagine the frustration people experienced playing this game before information was so readily available online. Even without the original game's bugs that OXC has fixed, the research tree is just crazy. How would you ever figure all this out on your own? What clues are there? To make such a crucial aspect of finishing the game dependent on capturing a live terror alien only readily available early in the campaign seems random and like a major design flaw.

If you didn't catch one early on, you may never get a chance again considering that later in the game you don't see Gillman terror missions often at all and you're not even getting terror missions if you have global coverage and are shooting down all the terror ships.

I'm in December in my campaign now and stuck. So I'm going to have to stop shooting down alien UFOs on terror missions (alien surface attacks in TFTD) and hope that I eventually get Gillmen again.

Okay that's the end of my rant/venting session. Does anyone want to defend the TFTD research tree? By all means, I'd like to feel better about it if someone has a good defense.

PS - I'm not even against a more complicated research tree than UFO; I like that researching alien corpses is actually important. However, they shouldn't have made such an important research topic associated with an alien that rarely shows up later in the game.

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Open Feedback / Differences between cyberdisc and bio-drone multi-kills
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:58:36 am »
In UFO I really enjoy when you kill a Cyberdisc which explodes and kills other aliens nearby ... sometimes even other Cyberdiscs causing a chain reaction. It's a lot of fun and a great way for a soldier to get multiple kills with one shot as the game credits the soldier who killed the cyberdisc with the explosion kills as well.

Bio-Drones in TFTD don't credit the soldier with the kill though. If you check the save file they actually give the kill to the dying Bio-Drone rather than the soldier who killed the Bio-Drone. Anyone know if there is a reason for the difference or maybe it was an oversight?


Something else I observed with Bio-Drones (but might be true for Cyberdiscs as well): If you shoot a Bio-drone and it is knocked unconscious rather than killed, it still explodes. But then if a grenade goes off nearby, it will explode again! Is this strange or expected behavior? I was shocked that my grenade blast was so big until I figured out I was actually killing the unconscious Bio-Drone. Seems strange it can explode twice.

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Playthroughs / Is my TFTD campaign a lost cause?
« on: November 28, 2016, 08:03:17 am »
So I started this TFTD campaign (Superhuman difficulty, no save scumming) a while back and would like to finish it rather than start over, but I'm wondering at this point my current campaign is a lost cause. Basically I'm stuck.

This was my first go at TFTD and I didn't want to spoil it by knowing the research tree, so I didn't know what to prioritize. Later on I peeked at the tree and realized I'm screwed. I lost my first base earlier in the game which had my Deep One corpses (you need those to progress in research). My second (and now only) base has never had a terror mission with Deep Ones. I'm in October now and I actually never see Gillmen anymore. It's all Lobstermen (F them to hell!!!) and Tasoths, sometimes Aquatoids.

Without armor I'm getting my ass kicked almost every mission, haven't beat an Artifact mission, haven't taken down an alien base and have been losing the last few terror missions too. The fact that I haven't lost the game yet shows how hard it is to lose. I had over negative 1000 for August, but managed to just survive September with -104 (without those 400 bonus points at the end of the month it was Game Over).

So will I ever see Deep Ones again somewhere so I can do the research to get aqua plastics, armor and all that other stuff I need to actually beat the game? They will only show up on a Gillman terror mission, right?


I beat XCOM on Superhuman pretty comfortably, but TFTD has been a huge struggle since the start (my death toll is at 187 and climbing). I miss having effective auto fire weapons.  :-\

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Hey all! Haven't really been playing OXC since early August, combination of getting frustrated with TFTD and busy on other things. Wondering if there's been any big updates/fixes/changes recently? I've skimmed the Git Hub page, and some of the changes look interesting, but the descriptions aren't all specific and the code is mostly gibberish to me. I see talk on line of fire and "goomba stomping" at the top, but anyway for a layman to find out what the actual game mechanic change is for these updates? I know what "goomba stomping" means, but not what the change was. Likewise with LOF.

Just curious what I've missed in OXC world. I see there is an installer for the Nightly now. That's cool, although I'll probably stick with my zip files for now.

My main question though is this: Might I experience problems using a campaign saved back in August with the Latest Nightly now? Any easy way to check that my mods haven't become incompatible with a change? I'm just thinking of when the ruleset way points thing changed for blaster launchers a while back and if I had been MIA during that time, I'd have no idea why all of a sudden mods weren't working. Are those types of updates/changes all listed somewhere as a heads up to people using mods?

Thanks!

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*UPDATE 2: Was fixed in a later version of the nightlies.

*UPDATE: "objectiveFailed" in the alienDeployments ruleset isn't applied when you lose the mission through a squad wipe, only if you abort mission.

I'd consider this to be wrong, but I'm not an expert on the original game so I'm checking if it is a "bug" or just the way the game is. It's certainly illogical.

Failed base defense missions yield negative points for craft lost if you abort the mission, but not if you lose the mission by everyone dying. I assume you should get the negative craft loss points no matter how you lose.

In TFTD artifact site missions you're supposed to get a score of 750 points if you win and negative 750 points if you fail, negative 2000 if you ignore (source ... you can also look this up in the OXC alienDeployments ruleset). However, in losing the mission with a total squad wipe, I found out the negative 750 isn't applied. You only get the negative 750 if you land and then retreat.

See the attached screen shots. First is a total squad wipe; I actually come out with a positive score! Second screen shot is taking off with 3 survivors and recovering some equipment/corpses. I get a negative score. Obviously that just doesn't make much sense. Both should be negative, the total squad wipe being worse.

So is it a mistake that the -750 was left off or just an XCOM loophole that is supposed to exist?

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Offtopic / How to move soldiers while ignoring spotted aliens?
« on: June 05, 2016, 08:20:52 pm »
I know I read this somewhere on the forums, but can't remember where and searching it hasn't got me anywhere. How do you move while ignoring a spotted alien (so the soldier doesn't stop when he sees it)? I assume it's some key and clicking the mouse.

Or was this only an OXCE feature?

Thanks.

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1) After a failed base defense mission, soldiers that were currently wounded (so could not fight in the defense mission), or that were in transit being transferred to the base, are deleted from the save file rather than added to the memorial wall. Even the total "soldiers recruited" number is reduced like they never existed.

I think it would make more sense to consider these soldiers MIA and add them to the memorial rather than delete them from the save file. Potentially they were high ranking with many missions and kills. They deserve better than deletion.  :'(

2) Also, there is a "Lost in Service" screen after a successful base defense mission, but not a failed base defense mission. I think it would be nice to show the "Lost in Service" screen for both.

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1) Most weapons just say "aimed shot" or "snap shot", but the blaster launcher for example will say "Launch Missile" when you go to use it. I see where STR_LAUNCH_MISSILE is defined as "Launch Missile" in the language files, but where do you set the blaster launcher's attack to be STR_LAUNCH_MISSILE?

2) Any idea if/where the ruleset listOrder is defined for Terror From The Deep? It is here for UFO, but can't find TFTD.

Thanks.

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Programming / Alien Psi Question
« on: May 26, 2016, 10:09:04 pm »
Spoiler:
So there was recently a bug fix in the nightlies fixing an issue with aliens not doing psi attacks, however, even after downloading the newest nightly the issue still exists for me. Anyone else still not getting alien psi attacks in most recent version of nighlties? (I tested with a supply ship mission with Ethereals.) UPDATE: Works in 5-27 version.

On a different, but related note. I have a question about how alien psi attacks function. I was under the impression that once one soldier is spotted in a mission, aliens can then psi attack any soldier, even if that soldier has not been spotted or moved from the skyranger. But in this ethereal mission testing at least, I'm finding this not to be the case. They only seem to use MC attacks at a soldier they've spotted. They don't need LOS, but they need to have at least spotted that soldier.

My tests involved:
Spoiler:
  • Instant battle mode, ethereal supply ship missions on superhuman
  • Take a relatively decent psi soldier out, get him spotted (but not killed) and then moving him away to safety.***
  • Upon ending turn, he will likely have some mind attacks thrown at him, but no other soldiers will (even with a bunch of extremely psi weak soldiers in the skyranger).
  • As long as no alien spots the other 13 soldiers in the skyranger, they will never be targeted for MC attacks before turn 20, even as the first soldier out in the field gets repeatedly spotted. At turn 20 (at which point the aliens automatically know where all your troops are), then they will start MCing people in the skyranger, but not until turn 20.
***NOTE: If you want to repeat this test, it works best with the skyranger in a corner facing the edge of the map (so no alien will casually walk by and look in the ranger to see everyone). Also, if you move your "spotted soldier" out and back in to the skyranger, and he does get mind controlled, then it is open season on everyone because he then "spots" the rest of your crew on the aliens' behalf. Also, if the soldier is too psi strong, he might not be targeted even after he is spotted.
So again, I was under the impression that alien MC should behave like it does at turn 20 from the start (once they spot one soldier, they can MC everyone even though they haven't seen them). Was I misunderstanding how alien psi functions, or could this discrepancy be related to the recent alien psi bug that was reported?

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I haven't really used the UFOextender_Gun_Melee mod before, but I was playing with it in the "New Battle" mode and keep getting crashes with it. Specifically, as far as I can tell, it's when you use it with a weapon that is unloaded. I turned off all my other mods and started a new mission and still got the crash. Sometimes it takes a few attempts, but if I keep swinging it will eventually crash.

I attached a save file test. Just take one melee "Hit" with the currently selected soldier and for me at least it will crash. Not sure what I could be doing wrong since I didn't touch the mod, but wouldn't be the first time I missed something obvious. Anyone else experience the same issue if you try? (I doubt many people naturally try to melee with an unarmed weapon, but this was a "challenge mission" I way playing just for fun.)


On a separate note, is gun melee meant to be effective? Even with bigger weapons it takes a lot of swings to actually knock an alien out.

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When I stun an alien and end the mission, it's being counted as a corpse instead of "Live Alien Recovered". I've tested in multiple saves and battlemode and it keeps happening. But I don't think it's a "bug" because I reverted to an older version of the Nighlties from March and February and it's still happening and I haven't noticed it until now. I turned off all my mods with no effect and I have no idea what I could have done to make this issue start happening all of a sudden.

Anyone have any ideas?

Save file and post-mission screen screenshot are attached. Soldier is just standing on unconscious Floater, I end the turn and that's the screen I get.

Thanks in advance.

14
Just a ruleset suggestion I think would be useful: give the ability to limit the number of uses (like the medi-kit has) to other items as well. Medi-kits can be used 10 times only per mission and then it's useless until next mission. I think the same functionality could be useful for other items. I want to use it for the psi-amp (make it one time use) and I'm sure there are custom items in mods that could make use of this functionality as well.

Just another tool in the battle to balance psi. If you mod psi amps to be heavy, difficult to manufacture and one time use and you have to use psi very strategically.


Related suggestions:

2) Allow maxRange value in item ruleset to be applicable to mind probes and psi amps as well. This already is in OXCE and I think it's a nice feature (costing stun/HP/morale/energy is useful too) and I assume it's not major to add the option, but I might be naive. LOS already does this indirectly, but maxRange would allow to use it through walls and make even more limited range if desired.

3) If transferring between bases, stay in psi training if there is a psi lab at the new base with an open spot.


PS - If any of these suggestions are already doable now, I apologize and if someone could explain to me I'd appreciate it. I tested with requiring psi amp amo and clipSize 1, and maxRange but it didn't work as intended. I've been playing the nightlies as well as OXC extended, but I don't think the first or third suggestion can currently be done in either.

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After beating the game on beginner I started playing on Superhuman and had my first run-in with Ethereals. Every alien race has been similarly easy to kill as beginner ... 1-3 hits with a heavy plasma does the trick.

But NOT SECTOPODS! They weren't that hard in beginner, but in superhuman they are impossible. Laser rifles, alien grenades, heavy plasmas, it didn't matter, these f'ers wouldn't go down. After 4 or 5 soldiers tag teamed one and couldn't kill it I resorted to blaster launchers. But I'm using a mod that makes you build your own no-waypoint launcher, so I only had 2 of them and could only use them so much with having to go back to the skyranger to reload every time.

In the end, I lost 6 troops, had 2 wounded (one out for 58 days!) and had to stun another who was under MC. I was extremely lucky to only lose 6 as there were many, many near misses by the aliens and lucky shots for me.

Besides the fun of a challenge (and it was fun, but stressful) is there any practical reason to bring a mission like this on yourself or is it better to shoot them down and just leave it? I didn't really analyze how much loot/money I got, but at this point I have more money than I need anyway.

I have near global radar coverage, so I don't expect to get any more terror missions as I always shoot down the terror ships, so I doubt I'll see sectopods outdoors. Tackling them in an alien base will be a whole different challenge since non-way point blaster launchers and indoors don't mix well.

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