OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => The X-Com Files => Topic started by: anothrgamer1234 on June 02, 2020, 07:05:09 am

Title: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 02, 2020, 07:05:09 am
I got this long before I had access to lasers or anything even remotely effective against ghosts, and due to the sheer size of the map I've gone over 60+ turns without being able to clear it due to one cultist or ghost JUST! NOT! SHOWING! UP! Short of hoping the mission reappears when I can send a larger squad with more weapons and more sanity, is there a way to clear it more easily?  And at that matter is the Hadriex Gun even worth the hassle?

I feel it wouldn't be half as problematic if only the map itself were about half the size it is now. There's simply no way to scour the whole 7-layer map with only 5 agents (the best I have access to now- the mission is out of helicopter range although I can't imagine having a 6th agent would help much).
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 02, 2020, 07:45:43 am
I forgot to mention another thing in my state of frustration: this mission spawned before I even researched Cover: Scientists, so I never played through the asylum mission where ghosts were supposed to be introduced. Is that supposed to happen?
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2020, 03:46:07 pm
OK, I will make this mission only appear after the Asylum is completed successfully. Especially since it's a one time mission.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 02, 2020, 04:54:39 pm
OK, I will make this mission only appear after the Asylum is completed successfully. Especially since it's a one time mission.

Many thanks. I had a feeling that it was virtually unwinnable in my current state. Plus, how could I have captured one of the Ancient Sea Ghosts without the Ghost Pen?
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2020, 05:01:22 pm
The problem is that these ghost missions are just a stub; there are literally two missions in the whole game, both one time only. So it's pretty much impossible to research them properly.

Things will be improved after I make more missions... Or in fact a proper arc :)
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 02, 2020, 05:35:59 pm
Again, thanks.

As I said earlier, the size of the map was also a big issue- there's so much space for enemies to move around and go out of sight range even as a day mission that it becomes an infuriating game of hide and seek. And because the mission drains sanity, there's functionally a time limit as well that creates a situation where everyone's too panicked to even begin searching for the last enemy.

Also, just to clarify- by "one time mission", do you mean that if it despawns it'll never reappear again? Or does it just mean that you can only attempt it once?
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2020, 09:55:16 pm
Again, thanks.

As I said earlier, the size of the map was also a big issue- there's so much space for enemies to move around and go out of sight range even as a day mission that it becomes an infuriating game of hide and seek. And because the mission drains sanity, there's functionally a time limit as well that creates a situation where everyone's too panicked to even begin searching for the last enemy.

Yeah I realize that, but I can;t really do anything about this short of making another map, and that's way too much work for one mission, sorry. (Ships are big and complex.)

Also, just to clarify- by "one time mission", do you mean that if it despawns it'll never reappear again? Or does it just mean that you can only attempt it once?

The ghost ship only comes up once, whether you complete it or not.

The asylum keeps showing up until you beat it.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 02, 2020, 11:50:22 pm
Yeah I realize that, but I can;t really do anything about this short of making another map, and that's way too much work for one mission, sorry. (Ships are big and complex.)

The ghost ship only comes up once, whether you complete it or not.

The asylum keeps showing up until you beat it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Anyway, maybe something like that "bug hunt mode" I sporadically see when a monster hunt mission takes a very long time (at least I think that's the mechanic, I'm not sure about the trigger) could mitigate the map size issue, as could making making more aggressive so they chase my agents down rather than scattering at random. There's bound to be some kind of workaround that doesn't involve modifying the map, right?
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 04, 2020, 04:12:59 pm
Thanks for clearing that up. Anyway, maybe something like that "bug hunt mode" I sporadically see when a monster hunt mission takes a very long time (at least I think that's the mechanic, I'm not sure about the trigger) could mitigate the map size issue, as could making making more aggressive so they chase my agents down rather than scattering at random. There's bound to be some kind of workaround that doesn't involve modifying the map, right?

There might be a way. I'll check.

EDIT: Nope, sorry, this seems to be a global setting. (Except bughuntMinTurn, this is something I could apply to one mission only, but it doesn't make sense without other tweaks.)
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 04, 2020, 06:27:39 pm
There might be a way. I'll check.

EDIT: Nope, sorry, this seems to be a global setting. (Except bughuntMinTurn, this is something I could apply to one mission only, but it doesn't make sense without other tweaks.)

Weird, I recall that the bug hunt mode activated much earlier on different maps, so I'm not sure why it didn't trigger for me on that one. I restarted my game since I first posted this topic and haven't seen the ghost ship mission appear this time, but if it does I'll send you the save if you need it.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: justaround on June 05, 2020, 12:51:25 pm
For future reference, I certainly wouldn't mind small "Haunting" missions. Something simple like early game Strange Creatures, except with some single ghost on a small map of some ruined house, cementary, farm and whatnot (probably some of the already existing maps could be repurposed for it). It could also help kickstart the whole arc and give players a reason and a way to build ghost tank before Asylum/Ship, with ghosts, if there's yet not much new content to be gained from their interrogation, perhaps teaching about the use of some psi items as well as stuff like period weapons in case of pirates (sabers etc). Interrogation probably should require basic parapsychology research first, though - at the same time with stuff like ectoplasm leading to it.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: krautbernd on June 05, 2020, 02:12:25 pm
Weird, I recall that the bug hunt mode activated much earlier on different maps, so I'm not sure why it didn't trigger for me on that one.
FYI Bug hunt mode activation also depends on enemy numbers, rank and panicking/moral state.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: betatester on June 05, 2020, 02:42:35 pm
The ghost ship could be an ancient ship, like in Pirates of the Caribbean instead of a modern cruise liner. => much smaller
An idea for very big maps, the possibility to send several teams at once (I know its hard, but iy could solve the boring side of very big maps like the cruise boat or the vampire castle)
Some ideas for the ghost arc:
 ghost vs Etheral mission ? We are the true Etherals of this world get out of here !!!! same as with the mummy/zombie arc ?
An ambulance instead of a van ?
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 05, 2020, 03:11:50 pm
For future reference, I certainly wouldn't mind small "Haunting" missions. Something simple like early game Strange Creatures, except with some single ghost on a small map of some ruined house, cementary, farm and whatnot (probably some of the already existing maps could be repurposed for it). It could also help kickstart the whole arc and give players a reason and a way to build ghost tank before Asylum/Ship, with ghosts, if there's yet not much new content to be gained from their interrogation, perhaps teaching about the use of some psi items as well as stuff like period weapons in case of pirates (sabers etc). Interrogation probably should require basic parapsychology research first, though - at the same time with stuff like ectoplasm leading to it.

I wouldn't mind it myself, in fact that was more or less the plan :D

But it's a whole new arc with lots of new creatures and weapons, and it is not a priority. If someone wants to give it a try, I'll be happy to lend a hand.

The ghost ship could be an ancient ship, like in Pirates of the Caribbean instead of a modern cruise liner. => much smaller

Yeah, can't wait to see this map, I hope someone makes it soon! :D

An idea for very big maps, the possibility to send several teams at once (I know its hard, but iy could solve the boring side of very big maps like the cruise boat or the vampire castle)

Well, we have our crafts. That's the only option. (Besides base defence.)

Some ideas for the ghost arc:
 ghost vs Etheral mission ? We are the true Etherals of this world get out of here !!!! same as with the mummy/zombie arc ?

OK, whom do we side with? :)

An ambulance instead of a van ?

But why? It attracts more attention and has no special advantages. Maybe for some special scenario, where you impersonate paramedics...
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: betatester on June 05, 2020, 04:19:07 pm
The ambulance it's for ecto 01 of ghostbusters.

Maybe in ghost mission we can have all the dead Xcom operatives on our side...
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 05, 2020, 04:37:53 pm
The ambulance it's for ecto 01 of ghostbusters.

Ah! I got it now.

Maybe in ghost mission we can have all the dead Xcom operatives on our side...

Well... The engine has a function to literally bring dead agents back... ???
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 05, 2020, 07:22:35 pm
FYI Bug hunt mode activation also depends on enemy numbers, rank and panicking/moral state.

I did not know that. Maybe it could be tweaked to activate after a sufficiently long turn count as well? Around 40+ turns or more feels like it would be enough.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: justaround on June 06, 2020, 04:41:50 pm
I wouldn't mind it myself, in fact that was more or less the plan :D

But it's a whole new arc with lots of new creatures and weapons, and it is not a priority. If someone wants to give it a try, I'll be happy to lend a hand.

Perfectly understandable. Can't officially declare myself to do it all as I already am helping in various ways in various indie game projects (and I still want to also do that check on armor balancing I promised you) so taking up scripting of new missions and building maps may be a bit hard for me now (especially since my experience here in case of OpenXCom is, shall I say, very limited), but I can certainly consider writing at least a few short paragraphs for ufopedia should you need descriptions of various random crap, reports and have no idea/will to deal with them yourself when you'll be working on this arc. I mean, I'd like to offer more help but I'd rather not promise more than I comfortably can do and then leave you hanging.

Other than that, not a problem. Just sharing those thoughts for your consideration when you will work on that arc, whenever it will be and without nagging you.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 06, 2020, 10:29:21 pm
Sure, if you feel like it, I'll be happy to see any content (but no promises to actually use it).
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 17, 2020, 08:53:05 am
Are you totally sure this was fixed? Because I got the mission without completing the asylum one...AGAIN.

I think it might be because the release with the fix isn't public yet, so the sooner you can release 1.4.1 the better.

EDIT: Even after manually bringing up my game to the latest version on Github, the game still makes the mission appear. Until the fix is properly done, is there a way to forcibly make the game forget it tried to run the mission so it has a chance of appearing again? I'm sure it involves editing the save but can't figure out which part to change. I've attached the offending save file in question, if run it should generate the Hadriex mission within a few days despite the asylum mission never being completed- I tried to run the asylum mission previously, and I wonder if it can't tell the difference between the mission being attempted and the mission being successful.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: krautbernd on June 17, 2020, 02:12:53 pm
So you're trying this out with an old save file? That wasn't made clear in your other post under bugs&crashes.

That won't work, and changes made in the new version won't be able to fix that either since it's already set to spawn in your save:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DR_HADRIEX_CRUISE
    region: REGION_DR_HADRIEX_CRUISE
    race: STR_CULT_OF_SPIRITS
    nextWave: 0
    nextUfoCounter: 0
    spawnCountdown: 10150
    liveUfos: 0
    uniqueID: 368
    missionSiteZone: 8

You can reset the mission counter under:

Code: [Select]
missionsRun:
but i'd either let the mission despawn or abort it before doing that.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 17, 2020, 04:53:00 pm
So you're trying this out with an old save file? That wasn't made clear in your other post under bugs&crashes.

That won't work, and changes made in the new version won't be able to fix that either since it's already set to spawn in your save:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DR_HADRIEX_CRUISE
    region: REGION_DR_HADRIEX_CRUISE
    race: STR_CULT_OF_SPIRITS
    nextWave: 0
    nextUfoCounter: 0
    spawnCountdown: 10150
    liveUfos: 0
    uniqueID: 368
    missionSiteZone: 8

You can reset the mission counter under:

Code: [Select]
missionsRun:
but i'd either let the mission despawn or abort it before doing that.

Well damn, I did not know that. What should I reset that to when it despawns- do I just remove it outright or change the number next to it?

EDIT: I removed it from the list of missions to be spawned. Will this work or did I just make a big mistake?
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: krautbernd on June 17, 2020, 06:31:39 pm
That will keep it from actually triggering, but it won't respawn as long as it's listed in the missionsRun section since the mission is set to run/spawn only once.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 17, 2020, 06:34:38 pm
That will keep it from spawning, but it won't respawn as long as it's listed in the missionsRun section.
So do I just delete its entry there too? I'm new to this save editing stuff and I'm worried that I may need to restart my run to fix it.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: krautbernd on June 17, 2020, 07:00:29 pm
I'm new to this save editing stuff and I'm worried that I may need to restart my run to fix it.
Right now I can't think of a mess-up that would actually necessitate something like that (short of deleting large parts or the entirety of the save file). Most of the critical entries can be recreated if know approximately what it is you deleted or changed, and the game should repopulate the mission section upon reloading. You can also simply save in a new slot or make a backup out of game (if you're running ironman) before modifying anything just to be sure.

So do I just delete its entry there too?
Yes, or set it to 0. Both should work.

Code: [Select]
missionsRun:
lists the number of times mission scripts with a maxRuns attribute other than default -1 have been executed (i.e. been spawned/set to trigger). For details see the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)). While the save file structure is a bit different from the rulesets you should be able to infer what entries correspond to in-game.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 17, 2020, 07:08:04 pm
Right now I can't think of a mess-up that would actually necessitate something like that (short of deleting large parts or the entirety of the save file). Most of the critical entries can be recreated if know approximately what it is you deleted or changed, and the game should repopulate the mission section upon reloading. You can also simply save in a new slot or make a backup out of game (if you're running ironman) before modifying anything just to be sure.
Yes, or set it to 0. Both should work.

Code: [Select]
missionsRun:
lists the number of times mission scripts with a maxRuns attribute other than default -1 have been executed (i.e. been spawned/set to trigger). For details see the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)). While the save file structure is a bit different from the rulesets you should be able to infer what entries correspond to in-game.

The weird part is that according to the save the mission had already been run once before (apparently without my knowledge)- perhaps it didn't count because it was never detected? In any case, I've removed the entry just to be safe.
Title: Re: The Ghost Ship
Post by: krautbernd on June 17, 2020, 07:51:36 pm
No. The counter indicates how often the mission script has been executed, not how often the mission has been "spawned" on the globe. When the mission script executes the mission is added to the

Code: [Select]
alienMissions:
section and is set to spawn after

Code: [Select]
spawnCountdown:
reaches zero. Mission sites do not have a detection chance. They are comparable to terror sites from vanilla. They are not UFOs.