OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => The X-Com Files => Topic started by: xcomfan on May 13, 2020, 09:35:12 am

Title: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: xcomfan on May 13, 2020, 09:35:12 am
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL7DZGvX/the-openxcom-files.png)
Hello and welcome! Similarly to extended piratez (as you can see here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4102.0.html)) I've decided to create a similar thread where to share your experiences, questions, advices and general strategy games.

In this mod - made mainly by the user Solarious Scorch - the player is put into the head of an international agency, that is to say x-com - to investigate about the aliens, it plays in some aspects like a "vanilla" game totally different from xpiratez for various aspects:


Please note that the mod has also an official wiki on this forum avaiable here (http://thexcomfiles.xyz/) so please read it before asking questions  :)
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 14, 2020, 11:22:44 am
Excuse me, the wiki is very much official. :P
And for the Piratez it's https://xpiratez.wtf/.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: X-Man on May 14, 2020, 12:47:57 pm
In this mod - made mainly by the user Solarious Scorch

Oh, really? Are we suppose to be in the main XCF topic? ;D
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: xcomfan on May 14, 2020, 01:24:58 pm
Excuse me, the wiki is very much official. :P
And for the Piratez it's https://xpiratez.wtf/.

Thanks, updated the first post

Oh, really? Are we suppose to be in the main XCF topic? ;D

No offence, no leaving out contributors, Sir!
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slaughter on May 18, 2020, 11:18:45 pm
Here's some:

1. Agricultural Flamer can be used to create walls of fire between you and enemies, dissuading them from walking through.

Doens't work with all enemies. AFAIK Zombies don't care.

2. The game begins in late December 1996. Don't hire anyone or build anything until JAN 1997, otherwise you will pay extra maintenance for just a day or two. I suspect this is to help players get some starting cash.

3. Don't treat your agents as disposable. This is not vanilla. Your rookies have weaker stats in general, but it will be a while until you will be able to deploy large squads.

In vanilla, you can absolutely get by through a mix of good soldiers and disposable rookies, you are always able to bring at least 14 soldiers to the battlefield.

Here, the only way you can do that early is by using the Mudranger, and it has abysmal range.

You will use small teams, and in this case, every single soldier counts.


4. Build a cadre of skilled agents. In my experience, thirty agents are enough. First part: The Gym. You can train your agents using the Gym building, check Agents and then Training. Build two gyms for those, so their stats get better. Each gym takes ten, so you will have enough gym capacity for ten agents, with ten being left out.

When something happens to one of your agents, check agents >>> training. Wounded agents can't train (they're recovering), dead agents can only train in Otherworld. Eventually an agent will hit full training and be "Done" so they can't train anymore, only gain stats from missions. So... Eventually you will have enough space for everyone.

Another part of stat gaining is engaging in missions, doing things and gaining commendations. In my experience, the key is to learn which are the easy and the hard missions, and plan accordingly. Easier missions, bring a mix of rookies and decent agents (the vets are there in case its actually not a milk run).

5. Learn how damage resistances and armor work. It will be important. For example, Kevlar Armor is mainly resistant to kinetic attacks, so its mainly useful to fight armed humans with guns. Leather Coats have cutting resistance, so they are better against monsters using melee attacks. I generally use Leather Coats vs Strange Creatures and Kevlar vs Cults and other humans.



Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: xcomfan on May 25, 2020, 07:09:37 pm
OK, so i slowly made into promotion and enstabilished a second base in europe, got some dossiers and made the very basic steps to the game. The madman man mission was kind suicidal...
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Mrvex on May 31, 2020, 04:48:08 pm
This is spoiler free unless you peek at it

1) Shotguns are the best early game weapon vs most enemies
Shotguns in X-Files have larger range than you would think, not the small one. The one you can unlock very early on, the long one that can fire AP rounds.

Shotguns also have advanced variations so its not like this weapon type will disappear. There are also some weapons that are actually pistols or cannons that can fire shotgun ammo.


2) Dossiers give council rating boosts
You know, if you are lazy, you can spend an entire month doing the absolute minimum and focus on research and training and make up the score to be in positive by researching dossiers.

3) Dont ignore melee weapons
As trashy as they might look like, stabby and smashy tools are actually insanely lethal because a damage type like Cutting is hardly protected against. Against sectoids you might even see that your agent simply caved his skull in with his weapon stock or just with hand to hand combat.
Mini tip - Give your heavy weapon troops something like a knife when you enter close quaters like UFO interiors. They will use their secondary weapon instead of trying to smash the enemy with the weapon and a precise Tritanium knife will eviserate sectoids extremely quickly and its really cheap TU wise so there will be many stabs.
Mini tip 2 - Your armour dictates hand to hand combat damage.
Mini tip 3 - While
plasma swords and energy lances
look cool i think they are abit of a overkill in the game and have absurd TU costs. Tritanium swords and stabbas are enough.
Mini tip 4 - The best melee weapon in the game is the
Master's Zhu (Or whatever his name is, the ninja grandpa) katana,
this thing recieves damage from psi strenght on top and can be used in one arm compared to 2 with normal variation. And this thing will kill majority of the game enemies in one or two slices.
Hell you can even destroy things like sectopods with them. Just like he did with mine....

4) You can reverse engineer armours in general from certain enemy...
the MiB armours if you get their corpses and you can get absolutely amazing armours from them.

Mini tip - thermal weapons (Lasers/Plasma/fire) or really large explosives can destroy bodies so try to switch to melee, stun or balistic weapons if you want the corpse
Mini tip 2 - When fighting monsters, give your stormtrooper a flamethrower and simply hover over enemy heads and boil them. Facing melee enemies ? Well too bad for them, even if they have ranged attack like Quil boar they wont even dent his armour
Mini tip 3 - The tech behind power armours and Stormtrooper is ....
complicated so MiB bases will be the only source of income of these armours for some time.

5) Some weapons you should NOT overlook
Mortar - Requires really strong soldier to carry and set up time, but its not uncommon to fire a mortar and then hear the screams of 6-8 enemies dying at once on the other side of the map as a mortar shell just leveled a floor on a clinic. Can fire incendiary rounds and smoke rounds too.
Mine - This is rather specific tool for specific job. You can actually throw mines, use them to secure possible doorways, the mine should be able to one shot pretty much any humanoid enemy par for the heavy armour dudes. Mines proved themselves during Lotus HQ raid since you can turn those corridors to death traps for ninja's to trigger. See that door there ? Chuck a mine there... just in case.
Tank/sectopod's laser cannon - This thing actually.... have you seen how much damage it does ? Like it will one hit KO majority of game's units. Yours included unless you are decked out in powerarmour or
juggernaut suit and laser weapons on vehicles have infinite ammo.
Flamethrowers - High risk, high reward weapon type due to low range.
Most creatures are vulnerable to fire damage
and it also causes panic. Once you get a flying armour of any kind, this weapon will ascend to god-tier weapon since you pretty much eliminated its main weakness. Also burning enemies is a good way to prevent any unwanted... "Turning" so they stay dead.
Incendiary weapons in general - Despite their lower damage, them being able to panic enemies is just great. Its also a great way to flush people from cover
Flashbangs - Causes hefty stat penalties and reduced TU's on victims, can be used in undercover missions.

6) Read carefully what you can bring.
Some missions require specific arsenal, for example you need scientist outfit to enter
asylum to bust some ghosts.
Mini tip : Delay
cyberweb ship HQ raid until
you get a sectopod. Sectopod has such a absurd armour that he will be pretty much invincible to the small laser fire,
Mini tip 2: Powerarmour is rather universal, like until you research it yourself you dont even know its stats, let alone that it can be used ... like underwater

7) You can pretty much overpower everything with any weapon type if you try hard enough.
Like shooting ghosts with machineguns until they go away,
robots getting riddled with buckshots, massive monsters being withered away by pistol fire.... but i would suggest having more diverse arsenal.

8 ) Diverse but focused troops.
Due to the absurd number of enemies in this mod, having your vehicle loaded with various weapons is the key to victory. And due to how soldiers can improve their skills when fighting with particular weapons you should consider making your own classes. I do it by simply renaming my troops with the role. So they are like Ronald "Sapper" Mcburger since X-Files doesnt have stat strings you can do it yourself.
In general
Rifleman - does rifle stuff, good at short to medium range
Assault - Does the SMG job
Support - Shotguns and smoke cover
Sapper - Battlefield control, to lay mines and to create new doors with dynamite.
Grenadier - Rifleman with grenades
Demolisher - Grenade launcher,
Gunner - Machineguns, Heavy Weapons Operatives you get the idea how these classes work.

Since you see these "nicknames" on the agent overview menu you can easily draft a specific squad.
Do i face monsters ? Then gunners, HWO's and rifleman should be present due to large number of melee enemies
Am i about to raid a cult HQ ? Then sappers, assaults and supports should be present in larger quantity.

Thankfully one of the good things about old XCOM's when compared to XCOM 1 or 2 is that your classes are all made up, nothing stops a sapper from picking a minigun, supports using rifles...
9) It might be better to not research certain things until you know you wont need them.
Like the Final Solution, once you get this research subject, think about it what will it cause. Fighting monsters is a really easy way to train your troops with low risk and a good way to create specialized troops. The alternative is fighting ranger xenos with strong weapons or armed human factions. I think i'll rather be hunting zombos in the woods than dodge heavy plasma fire with rookies.

10) Your starting position matters !
Cults have bases around the world, most vehicles have limited range of operation.
Bad spots
South America - Too far away from Europe and Asia
Africa - No cult starts in Africa
Arctic - Too far away from cults

Good spots
Europe - Somewhat central access to most places of the world, i had my base in Athens, Greece. But will slightly struggle with reaching the US mainland
Asia, Japan - This is a really good spot, you somewhat have of a access to US to get Exalt personal, Red Dawn and Lotus are at your doorstep but Europe is harder.
The starting position in Japan is also essential since you can reach the Red Dawn HQ with larger- capacity vehicle like the Helicopter so its not 4vs+60.

Once you have a hefty income make new bases to cover other continents too. Having a base in Europe and US is suggested so you can launch mission from there too to take out the cults

11) Go for Red Dawn first
Red Dawn is the easiest cult to destroy, they are ex-USSR personal and they dont use psionics or high tech weapons. You also get a essential tech from them. I saw that in the newest patch note that they will have armoured cars outside so thats... abit harder but still easier than other factions. You will need to raid outposts to gather explosives for this then. Some dynamites, maybe a RPG launcher there to take out those cars. You cannot buy these things yet so you will need to loot them from their safe houses.

12) Night missions ?
I would say, NO. Especially against creatures.
BUT, against Humans, then thats different story since they wont see a shit either.
First thing, from top of my head, Dagon cultists have better eye sight in the dark than your troops by default so they will be able to fire at your barely armoured troops out of your line of sight. Some armours make you more stealhy (like XCOM coveralls, but you need a tech from Red Dawn to make them).

13) Skip your turn number 1 when facing ranged enemies while you are in your vehicle
So on turn 2, you wont get riddled with bullets from reaction fire the moment you exit your vehicle

14) Rush for Kitsune once you research it.
Kitsune is a super, one of a kind aircraft you can make. This thing has global range, can carry alot of troops at once, even heavy weapon platforms like tanks and can fight back if you give it some weapons. It also runs on standard aircraft fuel.
Not Elerium or Zubrite. It can also fly to space
Protect this ship with your life since you wont get anything even close to speed and carry capacity until later on.

15) Use spare med-packs on civilians that are about to die
If you have spare reserves, you can prevent civilans from dying from bloodloss by just stabilising them like your troops.

16) Fighting alongside AI
Some missions will have more than 1 party involved, police or military will fight against whoever is their enemy and XCOM will be there to help them. So be aware of the fact that AI is dumb as a stump and you might see the military personal accidentally shooting your troops in the back or with your troop reaction fire so try to scatter and get in to positions like next to a wall so these dumbasses wont walk behind them and accidentally shoot them.

17) No reason to stockpile dead bodies once you butchered them up, the blood plasma for the 20 charge medkits is quite later on and you can simply sacrifice some elerium to make it anyway. So sell them for cash. Live captures sell for more.

18) The whole capturing alive thingy
Well it tells you more about the thing and some story lines require live captures but in general what it tells you are details that i havent found that interesting, most things you will hear that this creature is vulnerable to fire. But its not like thats a relevant information if it dies to 2 snap fires from a shotgun or a single volley from a machinegun. And you can guess which enemies wont be easy to kill with guns the moment you see them. Heavy armour ? Better whip out that C4 or RPG, this thing is hundreds of small entities ? Get the flamer ready !.

So TLDR - Dont push yourself over it too much, until X-Files adds more incentive for live captures.

19) Panicking or soon to be MC'ed troops
If you see aliens attempting to mind control your trooper (They only try this if there is a chance for them being able to do it, so if your entire squad is really mentally stabile they wont even bother) you must disarm him to prevent massacres. Drop his inventory and move him somewhere, lock him up in a barn or a house. If he gets MC'ed then he will either wander around aimlessly, trying to pick up his weapons and wasting TU's or he will try to punch your troops which is a really good alternative to an elerium rocket one shotting your entire squad of 14 guys.

If the soldier is loosing it due to low sanity, disarm him too so he wont shoot your own.

20) Disarming and assisted suicide, weapon theft
Once you get your own psiops, if you know your mind control victim wont be killable by the squad, either pull the pin from his grenade and throw it under him so he kills himself or throw his weapon away and drop all of his stuff on the ground.

If you mind control ayys or you would find panicking aliens, steal their weapon to your backpack. I am pretty sure sectoids dont even have a punching attack so once they wake up they will stare at your troops they cant mind control due to high stats and they just stand there, without weapons. So your guy can walk to them and swing his stun rod at them.

21) Get a sectopod or two when possible
They are the best thing since sliced bread

22) Spread out if fighting enemies you know use explosives
Its better for a single guy to die from a plasma hit, rather than 8 dudes from a plasma grenade.

23) Dogs
Dogs are rather underwhelming, they cannot wear sufficient armour to not die from a first plasma weapon that hits them but their teeth will melt enemies extremely quickly, their bark ranged attacks also reduces time units so you can use them to protect your ranged units against charging enemies. So in close quaters they are absolute beasts since their bite does ALOT of damage.

24) Using your tanks as meatshields
Lets face it, once you get access to them you should use them to tank enemy fire. Their high armour makes them invincible to small arms fire and even some energy weapons aint gona even scratch them. Sectopod has such a large armour that the only weapon that can kill it are multiple rocket hits or heavy gauss cannon. Or heavy laser weapons.

Tanks should be enough against human enemies.
In combat, crounch behind your tank to let it soak damage aimed at your soldiers. Its also better to simply lose a tank than a good soldier

25) Which weapons should i put on a tank ?
Laser cannon is by far the best weapon i found. Infinite ammo, good medium range and massive damage (It will one hit KO most humans and creatures).
One thing you need to know is that some melee enemies have such a high damage per hit that they can even destroy your vehicles so still avoid melee combat.

26) Capturing Ayys
Most of the essential research is gated behind commanders and engineers. Live Engineers will give you research for better weapons. Use Mind Reader to check out which Alien is who.

27) Explosive entrance
Sometimes its just better to blast a wall. Tanks can destroy concrete walls with rockets or cannons (Laser too) but high explosives should be used first.
UFO hulls cannot be destroyed with standard explosives but Elerium ex and Elerium Rocket can do it so if you dont feel for charging in, simply open the UFO like a banana with elerium explosive set to 2 turns to explode while you run away with your troops.

28) Make sure to turn on "Advanced Movement" in settings (Advanced tab)
This unlocks strafing and sprint for your troops. Running is essential (Less TU to move but costs more energy). Strafing is less important.

29) Reaction fire requires "Snap Fire" mode or else the weapon cannot fire via reactions
So dont expect to see your troops using miniguns to return fire. This is also kinda why you need to give your dudes either back up weapon (Like pistol they can holster) or a melee weapon. They smack enemies at close range but they wont fire at them.

30) Most enemies will panic
This is a nice touch of realism, in short and in gameplay terms. If you kick their ass so much, you have half of the mission done for you already. The more asskicking you cause in the shortest time span the more chaos it will do to enemy morale. This will become apparent once your weapons and armour gets way better than what enemies can stand a chance against. Even aliens can panic so use them running around to steal their weapons and capturing them with stun weapons. Even animals can go berserk or rattle on the spot but this is rare.

31) Enemies can and will surrender
If they are human/Human-ish, then if you kick their ass hard enough or you massacred most of them on the map. The survivors might surrender to XCOM. I would suggest turning on the automatic battle end in the advanced settings so you dont like spend a turn massacring enemies that have surrendered.
Its sometimes hard to spot if the enemy without weapon has recently panicked or he has surrendered, if he stands still during their turn then he is your captive now and he will go to your funhouse for questioning via research.
One important thing is, if there is even a single robot enemy on the map, enemies wont surrender. So if you face human and robot fighting force. You need to ensure that all robots are destroyed.

32) AI units need abit of aim grinding
AI driven vehicles you can build start with awful accuracy but they can improve by simply hitting stuff and killing them.

33) Always have these items in your landing craft
- Medkits (Self explanatory)
- Explosives or some sort of terrain removal tool. Some melee weapons like Kukri can remove some terrain like folliage while laser or plasma cutters will destroy things like walls. There are certain levels where you must destroy terrain to reach enemies.)
- Flamethrower (Some enemies have massive resistances towards certain damage types, but fire tends to work too well against them)
- Melee weapons ( Great backup weapons, also worthwile if you discover that the map is really closed up so using rocket launchers and miniguns isnt worth it)
- Some backup ranged weapons (Like if you arm your entire team with laser weapons, drop in some rifles and machineguns, you know, in case you encounter an enemy that takes like 50% only damage from laser weapons but gets 120% from bullets)
- Flashlights and flares (Self explanatory)

34) The ultimate mindcontrol
If you want to squeeze as much mind control potential your soldier has then equip him with Stormtrooper armour. There is an advanced version of the amplifier that lets you, just like ayys mind control dudes through obstacles. This amp requires both hands but you can give your soldier a pistol that can be quickly holstered with low TU cost. With Stormtrooper (Or any flying armour) you should simply land him on a rooftop, he should be able to mind control everyone in that building. You can capture small UFO's with this because once you psi-cap a Sectoid you can use him to psi-spot other aliens (Through obstacles) so your psioperative can get em too. Like with 2 psiops you can capture around 6 aliens in one turn, great way to clear out the final rooms of UFO.

Edit1: 04.06.2020 Added more tips (24-29)
Edit2: 08.06.2020 Added more tips (30-32)
Edit3: 13.06.2020 Added more tips (33-34)[/list]
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2020, 07:06:46 pm
A fantastic article!

It also notified me of the asylum problem - you shouldn't have access to robots there... But I allowed rats, because science :)
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: justaround on May 31, 2020, 09:41:09 pm
Since I don't think anyone mentioned it here and the big post above mentions dividing troopers by roles, remember there are templates for loadouts. You can use generalized template when in inventory screen using quicksave/quickload (F5 and F9). It even works for vehicle item loadouts as well. S and L will just save personalized loadout for that trooper if you want something more custom.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Doc on June 01, 2020, 06:24:18 am
Quote
23) Dogs
Dogs are rather underwhelming, they cannot wear sufficient armour to not die from a first plasma weapon that hits them but their teeth will melt enemies extremely quickly, their bark ranged attacks also reduces time units so you can use them to protect your ranged units against charging enemies. So in close quaters they are absolute beasts since their bite does ALOT of damage.

IMO dogs are best used as highly mobile scouts/spotters in conjunction with smoke or night ops vs early game human factions. Their combat abilities are a secondary (and sometimes impressive) feature but not a big selling point. Interior missions like the EXALT and Lotus HQ being the exception, dogs will absolutely wreck shop on those.

Consider reassigning them to pampered base mascot status when the ayys and other advanced enemies show up or risk a guilty conscience. Still, will never forget the time K9 Pickles (Hero of XCOM) racked up 6 CQC sectoid kills in a row while holding a door on a dicey terror mission.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: vadracas on June 01, 2020, 12:24:22 pm
IMO dogs are best used as highly mobile scouts/spotters in conjunction with smoke or night ops vs early game human factions. Their combat abilities are a secondary (and sometimes impressive) feature but not a big selling point. Interior missions like the EXALT and Lotus HQ being the exception, dogs will absolutely wreck shop on those.

Consider reassigning them to pampered base mascot status when the ayys and other advanced enemies show up or risk a guilty conscience. Still, will never forget the time K9 Pickles (Hero of XCOM) racked up 6 CQC sectoid kills in a row while holding a door on a dicey terror mission.


Correct, dogs are the reason you can win the 1997 landed UFO missions without savescum, no joke. No dogs, no early alloys for me.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: xcomfan on June 03, 2020, 04:14:59 pm
Thanks for the advices! >So by the end of 1997 i have managed to gather some staff components, alo some decent transpostation vehicles and some basic weaponry, but objectives neede to be planned more carefully, UFO interception will come later...anyway i'm very very low on money!!  :'(

(https://i.postimg.cc/TK3LbXDT/screen000.png) (https://postimg.cc/TK3LbXDT) (https://i.postimg.cc/PLLC6zyc/screen001.png) (https://postimg.cc/PLLC6zyc) (https://i.postimg.cc/phzpvWgJ/screen002.png) (https://postimg.cc/phzpvWgJ) (https://i.postimg.cc/vxyDZRyF/screen003.png) (https://postimg.cc/vxyDZRyF)
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Mrvex on June 03, 2020, 06:28:45 pm
Thanks for the advices! >So by the end of 1997 i have managed to gather some staff components, alo some decent transpostation vehicles and some basic weaponry, but objectives neede to be planned more carefully, UFO interception will come later...anyway i'm very very low on money!!  :'(

(https://i.postimg.cc/TK3LbXDT/screen000.png) (https://postimg.cc/TK3LbXDT) (https://i.postimg.cc/PLLC6zyc/screen001.png) (https://postimg.cc/PLLC6zyc) (https://i.postimg.cc/phzpvWgJ/screen002.png) (https://postimg.cc/phzpvWgJ) (https://i.postimg.cc/vxyDZRyF/screen003.png) (https://postimg.cc/vxyDZRyF)

Have you sold any excess dead bodies and cultists ? Because if you have like 40 corpses of some monster, then thats some nice cash there, sell excess weapons there, bones, phones, access cards and you should scramble enough money to get something like Firefly (Though you need contact to UAC to get it)

Another good idea is to simply sell off all irrelevant weapons. As cool as it is to have lugers and Mossin Nagans in your stock. Once you get access to the Blackops Industry, all those WW1,WW2 and Cold War weapons are obsolete. And the performance jump is considerable. Cult raids are also a good way to get captives (Which you can sell if you dont want dossiers for council ratings) and also just plain out cash. Recieving Promotion also increases your paycheck.


Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slaughter on June 04, 2020, 11:18:57 pm
I realized these days that SMG snap fire actually fires multiple bullets. Fuck, I could have been spraying dudes. Or not - I'm a big fan of sniping.

I realized recently that melee is kind of a protection against guns if your gun is not for close combat. CQC can bite the bad guys, too.


About Night Missions: The key is to know how to use the darkness to your advantage. Ideally, you want to stay somewhere dark, full of smoke and cover, and surround your location full of flares which don't illuminate you, but only your foes.

You want to see, but not be seen.

I think cults are really better to take on at night. At day, you get too many damn people shooting you at once. Day is better for taking on monsters and aliens, and night is better for taking on humans. Cult of Dagon is the exception, but AFAIK lower-level Dagonites have 10 night vision range, not much better than yours (9).

The real danger of night missions is too much hard fighting at the start then getting taken apart by far-off enemies sniping you outside your vision.

Jungle Missions are hell. Too many obstacles you can't see through but the enemy can. All the trees protect against grenades but that sword is double-edged. Jungles at night are deep hell.

-----

You know, talking about South America and Africa... I do feel like there's a gap on cults there. East Europe has Red Dawn, East Asia has Black Lotus, Med had Cult of Dagon, North America has EXALT...

Feels like  South America would be narco types with maybe some santeria/macumba/satanism stuff. Mix of western and eastern weapon alongside bootlegs. The whole "CIA Blackops" is already EXALT's thing.

Subsahara Africa would probably be something more of the "African Warlordism/Crazy African Dictatorship/Afrosocialist Guerilla" cliches, with a bit of jihadi (through that's very much a 2000s trope) and some South African tropes. Child soldiers, combat drugs, weapons consisting of knock-off Warsaw Pact guns and bootleg crap, excentric african Dictatorship folks, mercs, South African guns, hmmm...

----
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: betatester on June 10, 2020, 10:40:57 am
One thing that you forgot is that dogs can be close combat grenadier. Just drop pre primed grenades at the feet of targets then go away. You can use some barking to secure the move.
They can gain the grenadier promotion and increase strength and carrying capacity.
Bonus, the EMP grenade will not wound basic dog, and works well on some targets too armored for dog bite.
Stun grenade can allow the dog to capture live targets
Stun grenade can also be used as last resort weapon. Your dog has gone too far, has very few TU left, discovered too many enemies and carry only a stun grenade, just drop ii. The dog will be stunned and ignored. Better stun than dead.
As for other XCom team member, incendiary grenade is a good way to block a way, and the last resort defense system.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: HT on June 10, 2020, 10:50:42 am
Lol, these are some underhanded but effective ways to use dogs. For regular missions, it is better to bring Scout AIs than dogos then, right? What about monster hunts? I tend to bring at least one dog here because their melee attack will be used somewhat (unless the monster happens to have ranged attacks of some sort, then they're used to take cover and try to flank the enemy).

I noticed you can theoretically improve a dog's psychic power capabilities, but is it worth it? Can dogs be even mind-controlled by aliens?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: betatester on June 10, 2020, 11:49:08 am
Once my dog was mind controlled, he had the lowest psi strength of the team.
Forgot to mention but still true never ever bring motion detection grenade (except perhaps against ninjas, vengeance after the dog death)
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Mrvex on June 13, 2020, 01:53:39 am
I have upgraded my original post with more stuff.
And i discovered there is 20 000 character limit, to cram more tips in i spend like half an hour of culling words.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Mrvex on June 14, 2020, 01:13:48 pm
Part 2 of my tips

35) Learn weapon silluetes, or atleast this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/cPhtnZo.png)
This is heavy plasma.
(https://i.imgur.com/6GsQk7P.png)

This thing will one hit KO most of your units in most cases and it has really large damage output, pretty much only tanks, sectopods and juggernaut power armour users can even think about surviving a single hit. This will be the thing massacring most of your troops and you will encounter it alot.

36) Damage and armour numbers
This is really important to remember so you know if your soldiers can take a hit from the enemy or not.

Lets look at heavy tactical suit
(https://i.imgur.com/QykFkSI.png?1)

Due to how armour works in old XCOM's compared to XCOM 1 and 2, if weapon cannot hurt you, it wont. It wont cause chip damage.
You also need to know that weapons have a RNG damage spread. So weapons always do more or less damage than is written in ufopedia

Tactical suit will be the first armour where you will see constant bullet reflections and 0 damage taken. Cult missions will become extremely easy with this.
It has 32 frontal armour, so a weapon that does 32 or less damage per hit wont do any damage (No matter the type) unless it rolls for higher damage. But it also has 65% kinetic resistance so the actual treshold for bullet damage is higher.  You can safely say that only sniper rifles, rocket launchers and armour piercing weapons like cannons can punch through. Pistols, smg's and shotguns wont even dent this thing.

37) Quickdraw and belt slots on the inventory requires the smallest TU to draw from.
Backpack has alot of space, but taking stuff from it takes more TU than from belt or quickdraw. Quickdraw is perfect for pistols, clips or melee weapons. As it leaves you with enough TU to shoot, or reload and then shoot.

38) Sanity
While for most of the game, if you dont take too long to finish a map. You shouldnt have a problem. But in case of low sanity but your troops are still needed. There are ciggies (Golden Dragons) or combat drugs (Nobelons) you can give to your troops to boost their sanity. But this takes a toll on their health so use this only in emergency. Low sanity degrades combat stats and makes them more vulnerable to panic, you dont want that when facing aliens who can one shot your troops from behind.

39) Stay a while...and listen
Do you hear doors slamming , UFO doors opening ? The wooden door slamming means that there is alien outside somewhere....

40) Mechanical units are repaired instantly when you return from a base.
Since tanks and drones arent living being, repairs are done by XCOM mechanics extremely quickly. So even if you bring home a tank with 10 HP remaining, mechanics will weld it back together within hours. This really means that you should use your tanks as cannon fodder since they are reusable.

41) Alot of armours and vehicles can be repaired in workshop if you lose them in combat.
Most high-end armors and vehicles if destroyed/soldier is slain in it will leave a broken wreck of whatever remains. You can, for a small fee repair them to fully functional state in the workshop.

42) Force fire
In case you dont know, if you hold CTRL before you order an attack. The soldier will shoot, even if there is something (or someone) in the way. This is useful if you are shooting at somebody in cover under the idea that your weapon will destroy the cover. Furniture can be destroyed with most firearms, trees and stumps can be blown away with high caliber weapons and walls, doors and sturdier stuff can be destroyed with lasers or plasma weapons (depending on damage output). This is useful for full auto since it tends to be slightly more effective with time units than trying to use snapshot.

43) Miniguns
While miniguns may look crap, they are not. You might be put off when you see that your attacks have like 15-25% chance to hit but few things to consider
A) Miniguns fire in large volleys
B) They only take 5% armour damage reduction. So they pretty much ignore armour up to the heaviest foes.
C) To put it bluntly, in this XCOM, you can miss +100% hits, but you will also hit low chance hits more often that you would expect. Especially miniguns seems to make it the most noticable when you mow down 4 dudes on the other side of the map  Minigun is, despite being a large weapon god-tier close range weapons if you shoot it one title away at enemy since you will hit and it will hurt alot. Majority of the game's enemies will die in one volley, only the toughest and largest can think of walking it off. The blackops minigun for example does 35 damage a bullet, multiplied by 15. So thats 525 damage if all bullets hit.  (But it will be more or less due to damage scattering).

44) Orange, stationary dots
At some point you will encounter them. Intel says its large and at 0 speed. This "UFO" wont lift off and you can assault it with no problem.
Though, if you do, depending your tech level, prepare for one of the hardest fight in the game.
Why ?
Well this isnt UFO, but rather MiB base. Once you will go down the assault ramp you will be assaulted by rocket launchers, psionics, tanks, Sectopods, laser weapons, plasma grenades and accelerator weapons. Well thats quite alot so lets go through that all

Well if you havent fought flying enemies before, then you will encounter them here. Men in Black stormtroopers will hover around the map, often armed with rocket launchers. Make sure to get their corpse in one piece since you can use it for your troops.

Since Men in Black are Ayy helpers they will be armed with plasma grenades

Tanks ? Yes, MiB will deploy 0-3 tanks around their base. They are the same as XCOM's laser tanks. So that means they will one shot most of your dudes and will easily wreck your own tanks.
Sectopods are just a cherry on top, also MiB version of it. Prepare for absolute hell if one of them just stomps out of a garrage and one shots your tank and 2 other guys.  Use rocket launchers or miniguns to attack their backs where their armour is the weakest.

Psionics, base can have a psi-trooper who even has a shield.

Accelerator weapons are step up from blackops weapons you been using. They do more damage. Sucks to not have the heaviest armour to tank it. And most of the enemy here will be armed with Blackops weapons or Human-grade laser weapons so unless you have heavy tritanium tactical armour for your whole squad. Dont even bother.

MiB troops are quite tough (endurance wise) but the powerarmour operative takes the cake. These bulky guys in black have one of the best armours in the game (Only Juggernaut power armour is better) and after you will see them eat laser tank blasts one after other you might panic. But if you do kill one of them with explosives or hits from behind you can retrofit the armour for XCOM.

You might see enemy dogs around the base, though they are nothing when compared to the Human troops you face.

And then comes the base itself. The welcoming party is quite something already but you might find the base daunting too. Especially if you discover that the basement has a tank like doing circles in the hallways. Its also made as a maze but i said fuck that and i use explosives to make my path. And then the final room with more enemies (usually the commander and some guards).

You do get alot of loot from this and alot of ratings for the council. Also btw, dont really bother that much with live captures because at this moment, you cannot permamently destroy MiB.



45) Speaking of curve balls the mod can throw at you, here some more

"Clinic raid"
At some point you will encounter these clinics, if you done hybrid convoys then you will be familiar with the enemies you can encounter there. This is absolue save scum fest because even leaving your assault ramp will be difficult as you are attacked by a large number of hybrids and Advent agents armed with plasma grenades and laser weapons. This one is absolute hell because plasma grenades will be landing between your troops and constant laser fire aint gona make things easy. Having a tank helps alot since they can atleast take hits from laser weapons but plasma grenades will destroy them in few hits. Then the clinic itself, once you like killed 20 dudes outside you can enter it and mop it up, prepare for short range blasts from chemlaunchers and chemrifles while hybrids are trying to mind rape your troops. Though this mission gives very good loot since you can reuse laser rifles, heavy lasers for your troops and you get a really large council rating from this due to the number or enemies killed and loot gained

"Early visitors"
Even before 1999, you can, on rare ocassions get a landed UFO, if you can manage to capture it then you will get a massive leg up on the tech race. There is a rarer variation of this that military managed to down it. This mission is hard because you can only bring 2-4-6 guys and you have no clue about their psionic power so its roll of a dice. Though sectoids arent exactly tanky so shotguns should suffice.

Hunting party
Another early game alien mission. You will encounter Anthropods here, armed with warp weapons. If you can kill them all, you can get alien biochemistry tech which unlocks the dart rifle, which is chemical based non lethal weapon.

Arctic Horrors
This is one of a time mission, have you seen the Thing (movie) ? Well, this mission alone justifies the paranoid flamethrower in your car.  You will get a autopsy from the metamorph and that autopsy gives massive council rating boost, pretty much so much you can do nothing for the rest of the month and still get positive opinion from them. Whats so hard ? Well Metamorphs are tanky and they will turn any victim to one of them and ofc there are civilians on the map, a good warmup for Chrysallids. While they can be shot to pieces with shotguns, it will take alot of buckshots so its better to one tap them with flamethrower.

Your first cult HQ
It will be a massacre, but victory means promotion for XCOM. Red Dawn is the easiest to do when compared to Exalt, Dagon and Lotus. Exalt is well armed, Dagon has psionics and really shitty HQ map with little cover and Lotus has ninja who are invisible unless you are close enough to them, that paired up with your shitty armour means you will lose soldiers

HQ of the other organisation
Syndicate HQ is one of the most brutal faction HQ's. For the simple reason that your troops will need to psi-disguise as Syndicate personal and that means you will lose your armour, at the point when you face Syndicate i assume you will have Cyber armour and maybe few powerarmour pieces stolen from MiB. And this close range fight will be a bloodbath, a rocket tag gameplay as both sides will be in the range of one or two shotting each other with the weapons you have. And theres what, like 50-70 enemies in that base ?  And aside from supersoldiers, soldiers, minotaurs and CEO's you can also find the security mech. I think it took me 3 hours to do it with save scumming because those casulties were relentless and those were my best troops i had.

X Ship
This mission is brutal, +70 enemies on open place. What i am talking about ? About the Cyberweb ship HQ in X Dimension, this mission will be bordeline unplayable without Sectopods and tanks because you cannot bring your Tritanium or Cyber armour here because the atmosphere is unbreatheable so you need enviroment suits which DONT protect against lasers and warp attacks. So tanks and Sectopods will need to soak fire from +20 enemies at once. I did it with sectopods with no problem but not sure about tanks having same results.

46) Kitsune, Osprey and Ironfist have unique advantages over other landing vehicles
Ironfist is heavy infantry transport with staircase, so its possible to shoot explosives through that to the outside.
Kitsune though takes the cake because you can walk under it. This means you are protected against grenades and other explosives thrown in arc. Osprey has this too.
Skymarshall also is slightly better at dealing with landing zone ambushes because it has side doors you can camp or use to scatter your troops.

47) Training your troops
At some point you will realize that you have a bunch of really good guys and gals but the ever looming threat of losing them is ever present. But the rest of your units are quite crap. Like 30-40% chance to hit someone standing in front of them with something like Blackops rifle. To prevent disasters you need to constantly train new units with "Milk runs". Missions against monsters are a really good way of training firing accuracy because they are melee (most of the time atleast) so its just you taking potshots at them from safe distance.
This is also why you should reconsider researching
The Final Solution, as that will over time eradicate creature missions, forcing you either to train your rookies against Aliens or high-end Human factions


To add some safety, you should spice up the rookie squad with few elite troops acting as sergeants, just in case...

Creatures will be a good way to grind up aim and throwing accuracy, cultists will be a great practise with melee weapons because you can actually survive melee attacks from them.

Training should be done either with Blackops weapons (Cheap and effective) or turbolaser weapons (Infinite ammo). Once you have access to Stormtrooper armour (Or any flying one) creature missions will become impossible to lose.

Dont forget to have the gym occupied, making 2 gyms so you can have 20 agents (And dogs) training at the same time can help and you can demolish them once their training is complete. Also check out possible upgrades for your troops so they have the best stats possible.

48) Enemy/Allies will pick up weapons if they lost them for any reason.
They will either try to pick up their own weapon but they can grab anything on the ground. Civilians will pick up weapons off the ground too. If you want to save as many civilians as possible, you can, pack up a backpack with weapons you will drop in a city so civilians can pick them up and shoot. Oh and civilians will pick up stuff from the pile in XCOM's craft if they wander in it. I saw a woman picking up a rocket launcher and walking out of my Kitsune to one shot 3 cultists across the street. Or a engineer who walked to Kitsune and walked back out with Blackops SMG in hand. Not sure if there are any preferences or random. Not enough data to make any claim yet.


49) Sectopods
Sectopods have the highest armour in the game. So much so that if you get one, he can pretty much solo Alien base missions because not even heavy plasma can even touch his health pool. The only thing that can destroy him are heavy gauss cannons or flank shots from strong laser weapons. One way to quickly destroy a sectopod are Laser tanks, because laser does whooping 120 damage a hit, you can destroy a sectopod from behind in one burst fire.
And yes, once you get a wreck, you can rebuild it and slot your AI to it. Game will become extremely easy.

50) Some robotic enemies will explode when killed, destroying their loot/corpse.
Certain robotic enemies will self destruct when shot to pieces. Most notable are cyberdisks who will happily take out all of its comrades that are standing nearby.
But, if you destroy them with explosives, it will drop a wreck instead.

51) You can toss weapons, bodies and items across distances.
Well how is that even useful you might say ? Its very specific
(https://i.imgur.com/Gk0WXPH.png)

So its abit specific and gimmicky way to skip some TU's steps

52) MAGMA Corporation quests
You will meet this corporation one way or the other and they can provide XCOM some of the harder hitting weapons in the game and cool gadgets in general. Though some live captures and particular items researched are a needed for these "quests" to spawn. These missions are, once you research the outcome of the mission, one of a time. But they are bitch hard and require good gear and manpower to pull off.

The first mission you can get is by researching live infestor (And the 2 lesser variants) you can catch one in major infestations. This will spawn mission at some point. Dont bother with this mission unless you can haul atleast 8 dudes here armed with miniguns and shotguns and atleast armoured vest /w vest with a shield. This mission gives 2 rewards, tactical implants and heavy shotgun. The tactical implant is the important thing here.
This is a producable item that can be used to upgrade your troops (Sort of like bio upgrades) but most importantly it lets you build Cyber Armour, which is pretty much an upgrade of Tritanium Suit which has no penalties to movement and gives a slight boost to reaction fire at cost of being only slightly worse at stopping bullets (by 5%)  and this armour will be probably the longest used across the game because its just good. Before you whip out power armours for everyone. Your entire squads will be composed of Cyber Armour troops. Oh and also Cyber armour only takes 80% plasma damage (Tritanium suit takes full 100%).

Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: HT on June 14, 2020, 04:10:34 pm
Part 2 of my tips

35) Learn weapon silluetes, or atleast this one...

Dunno if you know about this, but you can get a close-up of ANY unit's paper-doll and their gear on-hand by clicking on them with the middle button of your mouse. Obviously, while the picture will tell you a lot, if you don't know much about their gear or the unit itself the help is limited, but it is better than guessing from the battlescape's sprite, which is not always accurate.

Unfortunately this trick doesn't work if you don't have a mouse, such as the case with the Android's version.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 19, 2020, 05:53:21 pm
To follow up with the mention of the Cult of Dagon HQ mission, they'll also have alien backup- Deep Ones, Gillmen, and Gilldogs. Most of the Deep Ones only have melee weapons, but a couple of them have sonic pistols- which will hurt a lot at the time you're likely to do this mission.  That said, even their spears and hatchets do a lot more damage than they'd expect and those Gilldogs have a way of blending in with all the scenery.

Also, capturing and interrogating an enemy will give you a profile of its armor rating and damage multipliers. Since the wiki is currently unavailable, this is the only way you can get that information! Always make sure to stun and capture anything you don't recognize, especially since some enemy types don't appear much and you might not get another chance to find one for a long time (or at all in some cases like after terminating a cult). I suggest electric clubs and the like for stunning reliably, you'd be surprised how many common enemies resist stun damage from tonfas and even the dart rifle/pistol rounds.

Update: The wiki is available now so you can check the combat analyses without needing to interrogate first, but having a reference available at any time is still useful and the wiki hasn't been updated with the newer enemy types yet.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: tarkalak on June 27, 2020, 11:39:45 am
    I guess i will chip in with one thicc of a post.
This is spoiler free unless you peek at it

...
10) Your starting position matters !
Cults have bases around the world, most vehicles have limited range of operation.
Bad spots
South America - Too far away from Europe and Asia
Africa - No cult starts in Africa
Arctic - Too far away from cults

Good spots
Europe - Somewhat central access to most places of the world, i had my base in Athens, Greece. But will slightly struggle with reaching the US mainland
Asia, Japan - This is a really good spot, you somewhat have of a access to US to get Exalt personal, Red Dawn and Lotus are at your doorstep but Europe is harder.
The starting position in Japan is also essential since you can reach the Red Dawn HQ with larger- capacity vehicle like the Helicopter so its not 4vs+60.

Once you have a hefty income make new bases to cover other continents too. Having a base in Europe and US is suggested so you can launch mission from there too to take out the cults
...

The best place for first base is the North Pole. Most of the landmass on earth is on the Northern hemisphere, and as you noted the southern parts (Africa, South America, etc) have fewer missions. That way most of the early missions are relatively close by. Then in the mid game the Helicopter and Dragonfly can cover half of the planet, so with a second base on the south pole you can cover the whole planet with only two bases.

As another note you can take the Light pistol and Spypistol on all undercover missions except the Beach missions. You can carry the Crossbow to the beach instead.[/list]
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Mrvex on June 28, 2020, 09:37:52 pm
Part 3 of my tips (Yes i hit the 20 000 character limit again)

53) Synth-Muscle Suit is great for new troops
This is a armour you can make by extracting muton corpses. This armour turns your troops in to superhumans by giving them large bonuses to time units, strenght and melee accuracy. Normally you would want coveralls for your new troops when hunting monsters but this thing replaces it by a long shot. Even new troops will be able to fight at close range with good hit chance and if you give them something like a Tritanium sword they will kill most enemies in the game in one or two slices. This is a perfect armour for melee combat and it provides good enough protection from damage though its not exactly bullet proof. But it should stop low caliber weapons.

Once you will get underground missions, it is actually a good idea to give everyone synthsuits and turn them to samurai warriors because its not like you will shoot that much and you will one or two shot anything with reaction fire anyway.


Synth suit gives +20% melee accuracy, this turns even the biggest noobs you have in to having 50-70% chance to hit and that hit will hurt alot. One of the drawbacks of melee is that if you do fail to kill them (Iek missing 5, 40% attacks in row) you just better save scum because what happens after that isnt nice. With +60% chance to hit, even if one hit lands it might kill the enemy on the spot. And once you will get really good melee troops you will be able to mow down people way more quickly than any firearm in the game.
Lets do some math to see actual numbers
Tritanium sword will be your to go to weapon you can mass produce, katana's and eventually energy melee weapons are also good candidates. But lets look at the sword alone.
Base line damage is 50 cutting, + 0.6 * Strenght + 0.2 Accuracy

Lets look at mr. Gerrit, who has 80 strenght and 86 melee accuracy
50 + 48 (0.6 * 80) + 17 (0.2 * 86) = 115 damage a hit. Thats almost as much as rocket blast of cutting damage (Cutting in general is anti-armour, not many armour types protect from it)
At cost of 12 TU a slice, Gerrit has 89 TU's, that means 7 possible stabbs, if all hit (86% to hit), then Gerrit can produce 805 points od damage in one turn. Gerrit is also a scrub (4 months in service), but synthmuscle armour turned him in to a terminator


54) Melee weapons have flat TU costs, firearms and other items have percentage based TU costs.
TLDR you can do alot of stabs with melee weapons with high TU soldiers.

55) Floater autopsy gives you the option to extract grav modules from them.
Unlike other autopsies which are generally useless (Shoot them till they die, autopsies in nutshell, also this x creature is vulnerable to flamethrowers is also quite common) this autopsy gives you access to flying suits which you will want. I can assure you. Though before you can make armoured (And i mean really armoured versions) that will take some time too.

56) Research captured ayy Engineers and Leaders last
Given the shitty in my opinion way of aquisition of essential end game tech (iek anti matter contaiment, delta radiation) which is a giant RNG rullete.
Let me explain, as you capture enemy aliens, you can capture different types of them, you can capture Engineers, Navigators, Soldiers, Medics, Commanders/Leaders and some elite variants. By slapping them on a chair and screaming at them for multiple hours and days you can extract RNG based reward from them.

Soldiers have few reward options so you can start selling them to the council's own funhouses once you cannot question them furthermore.
Medics give you random creature autopsy, so you can know that this creature dies when you shoot it with shotgun at point blank, or that its vulnerable to fire. You can also get autopsies of enemies you havent seen yet. If short on change, Medics follow soldiers to the workshop of information and joy.

Navigators give you intel on Alien ship types. This isnt as useful till you get hyperwave decoding tech which is a late game tech and even then its not that useful to know that. That that UFO over there is Harvester. The only thing you have to look for are "Terror Ships" and Troop transports and you dont need to know from navigators what these ships do. You know that if you dont shoot them down you are facing a possible Alien Terror mission... or XCOM base defence.

Engineers and Leaders/Commanders give the best rewards for XCOM, mostly essential tech you must have to advance. But they can roll for other stuff, stuff like ship types or enemy types. This is a total waste of a capture. So to maximise the chance to roll for useful tech, integoriate as many non engineers/leaders as you can before you start the questioning of them. So you eliminate the trashy rolls as low as possible.

Rather than this meta gaming for essential-to-progress tech i rather be raiding alien bases for data banks, or other major cults/faction HQ's but i have doubts this will change. Alien data slates are also a way to get good tech but these are very rare.

Note: Use mind reader to check out which sectoid is which, other alien types (well most of the time) have visually distinct roles, sectoids look all the same

57) Its irrelevant if you cannot cram a HWP through tiny corridors in 2 phase missions.
Sometimes you will be in a mission which is 2 staged and its in something like the caves. You might be tempted to simply get 4 or 8 dudes instead of 1-2 HWP's but consider this, if you kill everything on the map, your squad will proceed, with HWP's.
Not sure how did they manage to cram a sectopod through 1 title thin passage through multiple staircases but i guess XCOM called for a magician and he made these 2 planks of tritanium go *puff* and then he summoned them at the destination. Or they dismantled them and constructed them over there.

Just saying that some 2 stage missions can be brutal without something to tank the enemies on the other side.  One mission against doomsday preppers made me really happy that i did bring those tanks to the caves since now they were tanking quite damaging attacks that would quickly kill my troops even in tritanium armour.

58) Have soldiers walk in two pairs most of the time.
While grouping up can bait explosive attacks, there are benefits in massed combat at some point you will have armours strong enough to survive explosives just fine. By the time you get tritanium suits frag grenades shouldnt even dent your dudes.
One soldier can always crouch and the other can fire over his soldier but actually why you would want for them to travel in pairs is simple:

A) So they can medkit each other (Healing spray and gell can self medicate, but the large medkit requires someone else to use)
B) If one of them gets knocked out his comrade can pull him away from danger and like toss him behind a wall or fence.
C) If one of them is mind controlled, the other guy will engage in close range combat with him, either knocking him cold if he has something like a power armour. AI loves to blast your troops with MC'ed troops at point blank. But otherwise his comrade will foil his attacks against rest of your team.
D) So they can cover each other's back armour, literally. Infantry armours have weaker backside armour but if you slap two guys back to back, any attack against either of them would hit their frontal armour. This makes the difference between few days in infirmary and taking no damage from attack. This is most notable with Cyber and Tritanium suit which will easily tank balistic weapons from front but a hit to the back could do enough damage to overpower the damage treshold.

59) Utilize the fact that projectiles have to travel to its target.
Compared to modern XCOM 1 and 2, using obstacles to catch projectiles is possible.... or other people as meatshields.

But this becomes practical with heavy weapon platforms. Just like in real life, simply advance behind your tank and let it absorb attacks indended to hurt your soldiers. Sectopod takes the cake because  its the largest XCOM unit in the game with massive hitbox and massive armour.

60) Turbolaser weapons
Turbolaser weapons are step up from laser weapons, they deal more damage and have more weapon types covered. However the best features about Turbolaser weapons is its infinite ammo and decent accuracy.
Infinite ammo will turn this weapon type in to the longest lasting weapon type you will be using and this is a sort of weapon that is perfect for long missions like HQ raids or base asaults. And its damage output is like double the Blackops weapons with good accuracy on top. For example, Scatter Turbolaser (Laser minigun) deals 50 damage per hit and fires in a volley of 15 beams. Most human enemies have 50-120 HP. This is how you can mow down 5-12 people in a single volley if they line up and the damage it can do is no joke. This goes for most turbolaser weapons that they will kill most enemies in roughly two hits.

One of the drawbacks however is that they are very heavy. Its not impossible to use without power armour but dont expect to carry something else. For example, Scatter Turbolaser has weight of 51.  This means only your strongest dudes in your squad can carry it in something like heavy tactical armour. With cyberarmour you should be better off, it has better protection that tritanium armour but doesnt penalize you that much with carry weight. Turbolaser rifle has weight of 16 so thats not a problem but the hard hitting variations like heavy turbolaser or scatter will require strong hands to wield but boy they are worth it. Especially the scatter laser which actually has solid accuracy even on medium range.

61) Stuffing aliens to your backpack
If you havent noticed, you can walk over an alien and stuff it in your soldiers backpack, yes, an agent will grab a sectoid and shows him in the pocket.
Well, that sounds pointless, but actually its not.
Any item in your soldiers inventory will be turned over at the base. Including living enemies. So since there are plenty of research items barred behind research of one person then... why just not grab him, get everyone to EVAC and GTFO ?.
The best example is getting infestor, you need him for progress and he is...dangerous at the stage of the game you get to meet him. So why not just shoot him till he drops unconcious, send the largest TU agent over him, stuff him in your pocket and return and leave. You got what you came for and you skipped a hectic fight on top of it.

But what if the alien wakes up ?.
Well, he will drop on the title next to the agent and will resume its existence on the field. If suddenly a sectoid gone puff from your inventory, then he is walking somewhere, trying to find his weapon.
You can also throw bodies so your soldiers can simply fetch a body, even if there is like a broken catwalk between them.

62) Pre-Priming items
During inventory screen when you are about to touch down, you can pre-prime items by right clicking on them. So you can save TU and give your troops already primed grenades that can be thrown at turn 1.
Though be careful to not prime something like a dynamite and leave it on the weapon pile since it will explode in your craft. Also if a soldier is having a primed explosive in his inventory and he goes  KO or gets killed, his items will explode in his inventory, finishing him off and also possibly destroying everyone around him.
You can leave preprimed smoke grenade in your weapon pile on purpose so it gives your men cover at the start. You can also activate flashlights and leave it on the weapon pile so you get hefty line of sight around your craft, though dont do this when fighting cultists since it gives them a clear shot at your men.
Prematurely preparing explosives is very useful if you know that you will be ambushed at your landing site.



Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 30, 2020, 11:38:27 am
More very good advice!
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: HT on June 30, 2020, 03:46:11 pm
Regarding getting alien engineers, IIRC in previous versions Chtonic Mini-Bases were a good place to "farm" aliens. While the xenos themselves look identical, they're not well-suited fighting in caves, so it was easy to capture them en masse and hoard soldiers, engineers and what have you. Commanders were a thing as well, but that was removed in one of the updates.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 30, 2020, 07:02:06 pm
More on the Cult HQ missions since I only really talked about Church of Dagon.

Red Dawn's HQ is mostly simple enough- it's a big labrynith of a military base, but many enemies will come to you and there's only a couple entry points they can emerge from (as well as a couple of big holes perfect for chucking grenades into). I say "mostly" because there's also three armored cars that show up alarmingly close to your position. They're heavily armored, have lots of health, and their machine guns can fire an enormous amount of shots each turn which will shred your troops easily. If you haven't gotten Promotion III (and subsequently the Rocket Launcher or something else that can put out enough damage per turn to get past their armor) or had the good luck to pick up both an RPG launcher and anti-tank RPGs (it has to be the anti-tank RPGs, the normal ones do minimal damage against armor), you'll need to get creative. Sniper rifles are a surprisingly good countermeasure due to their anti-armor properties (especially if you're lucky enough to pick up a  M83 Barrett), but in a pinch miniguns or chucking high explosives also work. Get familiar with the map, you'll see it again in several other significant missions, such as the Cyberweb heist and the spider-filled base.

EXALT's base is a big building with lots of narrow corridors and many floors. Shotguns will be helpful since you'll be fighting in close range a lot. The Brainer uses some psionic abilities, but there's only one  and it's not overly tough. Just watch out for the occasional guy with an RPG, rockets in a narrow hallway are never good news. Consider bringing Nobelon too, sanity will be an issue if a straggler wanders off and you can't find him.

Black Lotus's base also has a bunch of corridors, but it's only a couple of floors in size and less difficult to get lost in.  It does, however, have a bunch of hidden doors that the enemy will use to ambush you from, so watch for that. The Assassins are definitely a pain, but Proximity Grenades and mines will deal with them if you put them in intersections they'll need to walk through in order to reach you. As usual, the Avatar is the most dangerous target- Stun weapons are most effective at bypassing her shield, which will otherwise soak up enormous amounts of damage. Even then you'll want to focus a lot of fire, she's got lots of health and quite a few resistances for good measure. Don't forget to capture a Mandarin here, as far as I know this is the only place that they can be found consistently.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: tarkalak on July 07, 2020, 07:14:47 pm
The Scout Tank has 5 anticamo, which means that it can see the Black Lotus Ninjas from 9 tiles away rather than the 4 for everyone else. It is a good counter to them if you can keep it behind hard cover on the enemy turns.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: ontherun on January 18, 2022, 03:56:45 pm
So me too wanted to guve a try so installed 2.2, currently in the very end of april 1997, unlocked and building the intel center but the rela deal will be to raid a cult safehouse, it is a though battle!

Cults spawn on each earth continents, so you should get an idea of what you will figt. Oh and in that month also see my forst couple of UFOs flyng around
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slow on August 16, 2022, 05:05:45 pm
What is the best weapon to kill zombies? I keep swarmed by them, even with a van. Fat zombies are esp hard, it takes 5-6 shots from 44 Magnum to make them 'sleep'. Mp5 is even worse. Is there a solution to kill them fast?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on August 16, 2022, 08:37:58 pm
Shotguns, perhaps. Zombies have little armour. Although they do have some and shotguns are very sensitive to any amount of armour.

I did some snap shot testing vs Fat Zombies, and got this:
Edit: Added some more shotguns:
All these results are probably skewed due to varying soldier accuracy. So most shotguns kill a Fat Zombie in 2-3 shots.
/edit

Since you're mentioning vans, I doubt you have access to the better shotguns and shotgun-like weapons (Threshers, auto-shotguns, cannon buckshot ammo, etc). Zombies take double damage from fire, so flamers are probably better, though the early flamer kinda sucks. Let's see what early-game fire weapons do:
Fire does have the advantage of corralling Zombies if you leave them a path to your soldiers that's not on fire.


TLDR: Shotguns, especially the better shotguns. 'Shotgun' shotgun comes very early if you want it to, Thrashers can be had as soon as Promo I, BO weapons are around Promo II. Depends a lot on what missions you get and how you manage them. Flamers and incediaries to block zombies with walls of fire, although a van is probably a bit too small to pull that off well.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slow on August 17, 2022, 04:55:53 pm
Thanks, I will try shotguns.

Also, is there an other weapons apart from stun rod and taser to incapacitate enemies? Ranged of course. I must take some Red Lotus officers alive and it is hard, they keep killing me.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on August 17, 2022, 05:08:34 pm
Also, is there an other weapons apart from stun rod and taser to incapacitate enemies? Ranged of course.
Shotgun beanbags, GL blunt rounds, Taser Cannons, dart rifles and pistols, KO and stun grenades, Small Launchers. Well, and Pepper Spray. That's nominally ranged. :P

In my experience, GL blunts are pretty good against the tough guys. Not so good for squishies. Taser cannons are also okay-ish, but your soldier can't really do much else (or much at all) with one. Grenade launchers aren't too rare, either, though unlocking them takes some doing. I think Taser Cannons come earlier?

And Red Dawn will keep killing you for a while. :D I think they're probably the toughest of the four cults overall, even if ninjas are more annoying.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Marrik on August 19, 2022, 12:26:25 am
Against zombies, I recommend that you have at least 1 agent dual-wielding Sawed Offs, they have less effective range than full-size shotguns but the ability to double-blast with both of them in one turn will greatly increase your survivability against Infectors. It's also a good idea to bring dogs; their reaction-fire barking can prevent zombies from swarming you, and they're also quite effective at killing them. Ideally, if you know that you're facing a large group of zombies, you would want to bring at least 2 dogs and 2 agents.

Also, remember that the zombies are only drawn to you if they can see you. The best strategy IMO is to fight the zombies at night, and have one agent carry a flashlight. Turn the light on to draw some of the zombies to you, turn it off and shotgun them, then turn it back on to draw more.

Also, is there an other weapons apart from stun rod and taser to incapacitate enemies? Ranged of course. I must take some Red Lotus officers alive and it is hard, they keep killing me.

The safest way to do it is to just shoot them with rifles from far away, then let bleeding incapacitate them and try to get over to them before they die.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on August 19, 2022, 02:09:31 am
Yeah, from what my limited testing showed, Sawed-Offs and other starter shotguns are damn good against Zombies, possibly as good or better as many mid-tier shotguns (BO, 'Shotgun' shotgun, KS 23-M). These do have their other perks, like better long-range combat and multiple ammo types. It's not until auto-shotguns and Thrashers that you get stuff that considerably boosts your ability to mow down zombies with a wall of lead.

Melee is unrealistically deadly across the board, so dogs are pretty good at killing. Of course, that means Zombies are also damn good at killing you once they slip past. Makes me have flashbacks to They Are Billions. :-\

The safest way to do it is to just shoot them with rifles from far away, then let bleeding incapacitate them and try to get over to them before they die.
That's not very reliable, and safe only if practiced once you've thinned out the herd. Trying to get to a downed enemy usually means you'll be exposing yourself to many of their buddies, all baying for blood.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slow on August 21, 2022, 04:37:15 pm
I bought a helicopter and there's a little circle over it on the World Map. What is it?

Symbols over the unconscious, the bleeding and sleeping I understand, but today was some new, that looked like ghost? What is the meaning of it?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 21, 2022, 05:02:12 pm
I bought a helicopter and there's a little circle over it on the World Map. What is it?

Its the radar range. Your every vehicle should have it.

Symbols over the unconscious, the bleeding and sleeping I understand, but today was some new, that looked like ghost? What is the meaning of it?

It means that the character is "overstunned" - there is a relevant Pedia article, but I think it may too new to be in the latest version.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: tarkalak on August 21, 2022, 05:46:22 pm
I bought a helicopter and there's a little circle over it on the World Map. What is it?

Symbols over the unconscious, the bleeding and sleeping I understand, but today was some new, that looked like ghost? What is the meaning of it?

Over stunned. I.e. your character has way too much stun, like several times over his health. He will take damage and eventually die from overstun. If enemy, it is mostly irrelevant.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slow on August 21, 2022, 06:17:16 pm
Thanks.

It's quite stupid that I can't have grenades. Today was attack on Red Dawn outpost, helicopter landed right in front of their building and they were waiting. 4 red dawn soldiers in like 8 tiles from heli landing site. Half of my agents die on the first turn, from reaction fire. And one of them even had grenade! it was total catastrophe.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: tarkalak on August 21, 2022, 08:43:07 pm
Thanks.

It's quite stupid that I can't have grenades. Today was attack on Red Dawn outpost, helicopter landed right in front of their building and they were waiting. 4 red dawn soldiers in like 8 tiles from heli landing site. Half of my agents die on the first turn, from reaction fire. And one of them even had grenade! it was total catastrophe.

There are battles that you cannot win. Especially with the smaller teams. Just retreat and try again.

Other than that, carry a smoke grenade with at least two people. Just prime (or prerime it at equipment screen) and drop it on the ground. None of these actions trigger Reaction fire. Next turn you will be concealed and enemies will need to walk to you to see you.

And most of the early cults are better fought in the night.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on August 21, 2022, 10:43:21 pm
There are battles that you cannot win.
Some arguably needlessly so. When you feel the need to mitigate this a bit, there's a mini-mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.msg119480.html#msg119480) for that.

Next turn you will be concealed and enemies will need to walk to you to see you.
Not the Red Dawn. Until 2.6 comes out, they're all snipers and have already seen your troops.

And most of the early cults are better fought in the night.
Yes. Though Red Dawn are still quite dangerous even at night.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slow on September 28, 2022, 05:16:33 pm
Several questions:

1. Ok. I got Biolab and Intel Lab, how do I speed up my research more? Which "lab" is next?

2. What should I research to get better armor than leather coat and kevlar vest?

3. Should I research and destroy secret societies ASAP, or they can wait?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Vakrug on September 28, 2022, 06:28:56 pm
1. Ok. I got Biolab and Intel Lab, how do I speed up my research more? Which "lab" is next?
Biolab #2 in your base #2.
2. What should I research to get better armor than leather coat and kevlar vest?
Research tree for Armored Vest: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_ARMORED_VEST
3. Should I research and destroy secret societies ASAP, or they can wait?
You should destroy 1 cult ASAP to get better armor. After that other cults are piece of cake.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Slow on September 28, 2022, 07:11:48 pm
Biolab #2 in your base #2.Research tree for Armored Vest: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_ARMORED_VESTYou should destroy 1 cult ASAP to get better armor. After that other cults are piece of cake.

Thanks. Sadly, I don't have enough funds to build second base.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on September 28, 2022, 09:33:04 pm
Then you need to get some. More bases are vital.

The next actual lab is the 'Science Laboratory', which is locked behind Promotion II. So quite some ways off. Getting more Biolabs and Intel Centers (and perhaps even another HQ if you're swimming in money) is the way to go in early game.


There are also a number of sidegrades (Jumpsuit, Night Ops Suit, Bio-Exo Suit) to the Kevlar vest, losing out on some (frontal) armour but giving other benefits. Pretty much all of those are gated behind the Workshop (and some other requirements), which is partway to Promotion II. The most difficult part, usually. :(

There's also the Mongorn skin suit that's basically an improved leather coat and only requires enough Mongorns. And looks cool. 8)


I don't think you're up to destroying the cults if you're still wearing leathers. In general, if you leave the cults alive you get 'punished' with mansions (and thus cultist aircraft) and endless anti-cultist missions (plus some mid-game fuckery like hybrid bases). If you're patient, on the ball with your air game and can take down manors en masse (easier said than done), that's essentially free money and other loot. Some pretty nice loot, actually.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: BreakRelease on November 18, 2022, 04:22:57 pm
Nice thread, I'll add the best Bravery training method I've found: go to a milk run mission and have a dog bark at your soldiers for a little while.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: jackmoodles on December 20, 2022, 12:54:34 pm
I have a couple of questions.

1. What is the outrunner? Is it a vehicle like a Humvee? How do I use it (i've manufactured one but can't seem to use it)

2. I'm at the end of 1998 and most times a forward base or even a cult HQ appears, if I try to fly to them then I get attacked by at least 2 ufo's  (white dots on the map not red)  They fly much faster than my little bird. Sometimes my LB can knock them out but not always.  When can I be looking at better interceptors, weapons against ufo's etc?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 20, 2022, 01:05:56 pm
1. What is the outrunner? Is it a vehicle like a Humvee? How do I use it (i've manufactured one but can't seem to use it)

It's not a vehicle, it's a chassis for AI units (basically an armour).

2. I'm at the end of 1998 and most times a forward base or even a cult HQ appears, if I try to fly to them then I get attacked by at least 2 ufo's  (white dots on the map not red)  They fly much faster than my little bird. Sometimes my LB can knock them out but not always.  When can I be looking at better interceptors, weapons against ufo's etc?

For proper interceptors, this you'll have to get Promotion III. This makes your first HQ extra challenging.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 20, 2022, 05:51:25 pm

1. What is the outrunner? Is it a vehicle like a Humvee? How do I use it (i've manufactured one but can't seem to use it)


This took me a bit to understand but if you go to you Agents menu and click on an AI unit (normally where you would assign Armor) you can use adaptions. Eco skeleton,  etc.


2. I'm at the end of 1998 and most times a forward base or even a cult HQ appears, if I try to fly to them then I get attacked by at least 2 ufo's  (white dots on the map not red)  They fly much faster than my little bird. Sometimes my LB can knock them out but not always.  When can I be looking at better interceptors, weapons against ufo's etc?

Thanks in advance!

Your best bet now (until you get your hands on the raven, interceptors) is to purchase a Land Rover. It holds 5 solders and will allow you to slide in undetected by air craft.
FYI- The Van is not the same. Land Rover is much faster (speed).
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: SBBurzmali on December 20, 2022, 06:26:02 pm
2. I'm at the end of 1998 and most times a forward base or even a cult HQ appears, if I try to fly to them then I get attacked by at least 2 ufo's  (white dots on the map not red)  They fly much faster than my little bird. Sometimes my LB can knock them out but not always.  When can I be looking at better interceptors, weapons against ufo's etc?
If you just want to complete the mission, you can bait the base's interceptors into chasing a speedy or disposable aircraft and sneak in with your team. Enemy interceptors can't target your craft when they are returning to base after a mission. From what I've seen, the AI can't relaunch its interceptors for a while, even if they aren't destroyed, so just getting them to pop out in a controlled manner is enough to give yourself some space.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 02, 2023, 05:59:07 pm
What changed the game for me was getting access to the Black Opts Sniper rifle (with Tritanium clips).
It's a "Swiss army knife" weapon and works well on almost everything in the game besides Sectopods and Ethrals. For those I used Heavy Gauss. Heavy Plasma need not apply.

Black Opts S.R is very similar to the way the Assault rifle is in X com Vanilla. Basically a good, all around weapon. But will not take you all the way to the dance.

Plasma is a great weapon in XCF. But it literally vaporizes almost everything. That's little help when trying to recover or weaken enemy's.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on April 19, 2023, 04:35:49 pm
First time playing this mod (superhuman, to see how it really is, yet using saves now and then; if I like it, I'd probably do an ironman with some difficulty later). What I'd have wanted to see a bit more is certain general tips and tricks for the early game - especially the strategic aspects how you should focus your game in, say, first 6 months or so, to get everything ramped up to a good start. The first message had some, but mostly related to, for example, battle tactics. I guess this aspect is more like "play and find out - and then start again".

For example:
 - Severely limited research capacity (5 scientists) means that you can progress any real research very slowly (even those with relatively small cost of 50 or so, for example logistics, personal protection, kevlar vests, many others I would like to do) with a couple of researchers, yet can accomplish trivial investigations very quickly. So far I have spent 2-4 researchers on a major topic and the rest on progressing those trivial ones (such as interrogating the prisoners and getting weapons updates). But not sure if this is the right thing to do. I also delayed researching the cults before I had access to kevlar vests, because I suspect - reading several threads here - that going after much more than basic apprehension missions would likely be deadly unless you're suitably prepared. (Already getting bored with maybe 20-30 of these cult apprehension missions, but they have been a good exercise for the soldiers.) So far there seems to be no chance at getting more scientists in the near future.
 - "Base-wise" there isn't much you can do. Build a third hangar and 1-2 additional gyms, so that they you are able to expand, you already have many trained agents. I can't figure out anything else you should be spending your money on (current stockpile at 1.5M). I suppose I could get started on another base, to increase the coverage (see below), but it wouldn't help with research or much else (would need 3M to get a second HQ anyway).
 - While logistics and the van is nice to get 4 agents on the field, the van is too slow to catch all events even if you would be willing to do them at night. (For example, if your HQ is in Europe, you won't be able to get to Australia/NZ in time, and some Americas is probably also a no-go with a van.) So you need to keep at least one car as backup. (In a way, this is a nice design decision because it leaves you with a tradeoff you need to deal with.) Even by looking at the rulesets, I couldn't figure out the lifetime of the spawns so that I could know whether the van is quick enough to get there in time. You can only guess and/or reload.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on April 19, 2023, 05:32:29 pm
Early research protip: rush Bio Labs, then Intelligence Centers, then build a new base and repeat. Intel Centers do require basic cult research, though. Don't build HQs, build more bases and Bio Labs. You need the transport coverage, anyway, even if interceptions aren't happening any time soon and even - and especially! - if you use the transport transfer trick.

Kevlar vests are the Personal Armour of early XCF: will cut down on getting one-shot, but are by no means a guarantee against even the dinkiest handgun.

Vans are ridiculously slow and I've sped them up a little for my own use while still preserving the dichotomy between the two. Some people have used a great number of vans patrolling all over the globe as a quick reaction force. Others have recoiled in horror when told about this. :D

I always feel the need for a big warehouse to store all my shinies in, and some extra prisons for all the cultists getting conked on the head. Some others go for a fourth hangar off the bat.

Ruleset diving: mission durations (in hours) are under 'duration' in alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul. Some can vary quite a bit. You can also check your save for the actual value, if you're so inclined.

Superhuman has ridiculously inflated enemy counts and somewhat inverted difficulty if you can handle those, due to all the extra loot (and score/exp).
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on April 21, 2023, 09:53:45 pm
So what are the next points of strategic focus after that?

In July I'm up to 15 researchers in the primary base, just had a first MiB (4 persons) mission, have researched or researching all 4 cult networks, done a couple of outposts, and working on Black Lotus Witch now -> BL Operations. Recently obtained a helicopter for 6-person transport. A Black Lotus party mission just spawned up, but based on a quick look it seems like a very difficult fight with this few people unless (maybe) you hide in a hole and take out the enemies one by one as they appear. Having looked at several people in YT and they seem to be way back in the curve, even doing outpost/party/etc. missions in 1998 rather than mid-1997.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: DoxaLogos (JG) on April 21, 2023, 10:42:45 pm
Work your way towards DragonFly/Osprey for carrying more troops to the bigger parties.   

Armored Vests help out a whole lot and getting BlackOps Sniper Rifles and other BlackOps assortment. 

I think both of those are gated by Promotion II.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on April 21, 2023, 11:46:29 pm
I think as a general strategy, this post (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11143.msg153623.html#msg153623) applies here as well.

Although your immediate goals should be Promotion II and then starting to work on Promotion III, getting actual labs and workshops set up, Dragonflies and Ospreys, Armoured Vests/Shields and then Heavy Tac Suits for dunking on cultists, BO weapons or maybe some Russian ones (SVD is very nice, PKM is fine, AKs kinda suck). Better stun weapons because boy do you have to capture stuff in this mod. Melee weapons and dogs are worth trying out, they are surprisingly effective even against pretty hardcore enemies. Shadowbats have their own niche, but might be hard to get hold of. 
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on April 25, 2023, 07:33:51 am
What are the priorities with getting more scientists versus other things? I have delayed building a workshop, radar or a sickbay, and even (large) warehouses could be an asset with all the junk I'm always having to sell. Instead, I've built two bases and the primary one is now building a science lab (2M). I'm in Dec 1997 and have just gotten Dragonfly, BO gear, Armored vests for a while, etc. I have done the Black Lotus avatar mission and raided a red dawn forward base (lots of money there, but very tricky with ~60 enemies who apparently had some night vision), but skipped HQ for now. Some UFOs are already appearing but I can't do anything with them. I wonder if I ramping up the research is still more important than those other base improvements (or, for example, a third base in the US). I think I might be inclined to still use the money for hiring more scientists, up to the total of 50. Can you use engineers to produce and sell stuff to improve finance in this early game, or would the workshop + engineers just sink your money? I think currently the only thing I can't manufacture is a taser cannon.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on April 25, 2023, 09:10:43 am
Well, the thing with focusing on tech progress is that you need to implement said tech as well, which costs money and soon enough also engineer hours. And you need to pay the scientists, which is one of the biggest expense items on your budget.

Radars aren't very useful at this point since you likely don't have interceptors or fast enough transports to take advantage of them yet.

Sickbay's main function is IMO access to transformations, not the recovery speedup. Your own Stormies first, then the brain implants, maybe Blood Boosting for more disposable agents. If you don't have at least one of those, or the time/money to put your people through those, sickbays can be ignored for a while.

You need at least one workshop to get all sorts of advanced gear soon enough. And, no, Solarius has thoroughly eradicated manufacturing for profit. At best, you can cover most of the expenses (workshop upkeep and salaries). Don't let the GUI's "profit" line mislead you.

Red Dawn do have a bit of night vision, but not a significant amount. Many a player has confused sniping outside of vision range with night vision, or some sneaky enemy being near their smoke cloud.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on April 25, 2023, 09:27:16 am
...
Red Dawn do have a bit of night vision, but not a significant amount. Many a player has confused sniping outside of vision range with night vision, or some sneaky enemy being near their smoke cloud.

This might be a useful discussion for this tips & tricks thread. What I have done with most cult missions is arrive there at night and have a few pre-primed flares on each guy. (Sometimes with easier missions I also arrive during day but drop a few pre-primed smokes immediately and skip to the next turn, unless I can safely shoot the nearby cultists.) After dealing with the guys next to you (or alternatively seeking cover positions), throw out the flares far enough (maybe 25 squares or so) so that they expose the cultists but don't expose you. Then shotgun those that come close and snipe down the rest. You can usually accomplish the mission without moving more than a couple of squares, because the majority will come out eventually and the rest will panic and surrender. The same tactic works brilliantly with the shady tavern missions: stay as far back as you can, while lighting up the tavern and shooting (often by reactions) those that wonder in the lighted areas.

For some reason, I had difficulties with this tactic in the red dawn forward base. Even though my guys were supposed to be in the dark, dozen or even two dozen cultists kept shooting at me from far away (even 30+ squares off). I wonder if something was messing up "staying in the dark", for example, does the helicopter have some lighting of its own (I think I recall reading something about vehicle lighting earlier). From what I get from your point, this tactic should still work (and be very easy, even cheesy, although depending on RNG on where you end up in the map).

Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on April 25, 2023, 11:02:57 am
What Juku refers to is sniper/spotter mechanic. Basically some (usually higher-tiered) "sniper" enemies will shoot at you even if they don't see you, granted you've been spotted by other cultists ("spotters") or hit "spotter" with direct attack in recent turns (usually 1-4 turns, depending on "spotter" stat).

Night still helps somewhat as anyone not seeing the target directly suffers (usually) 50% debuff to accuracy. But it also makes it harder to scout out dangerous enemies.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on April 25, 2023, 12:08:31 pm
Dragonfly has lights, which are a giant pain during night missions. I think all the other transports don't, but not 100% sure.

Red Dawn are all spotters and only the vatniks are not snipers (although the lower ranks were scaled back a bit some time ago). So they can shoot you from a distance without having eyes on you a lot. Even if not a single cultist is ever in vision range - because you have to kill them, and that makes you spotted and thus a sniper target, as Stone Lake said.

You have always been able to do the same, but the 50% aim penalty encourages the use of sniper rifles and HE projectors for long-range firing.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: NuclearStudent on April 29, 2023, 12:40:06 am
I'm also not sure what changed, but I remember the number of Strange Life Form missions being tedious, and now even on Superhuman difficulty, I feel as if the number is fine now. I don't know if this was an actual change or just my mentality being different after a couple years time. Whatever it is, I like it.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on April 29, 2023, 08:48:17 am
There appear to be certain tradeoffs you should weigh on depending on which and how many missions you want.

Based on my rather modest SH experiences and looking/reading some LPs, you may want to rush researching all Cult Networks to get military envoy, dragonfly, etc. and get a crack at cult outposts, which enable you to get Cult Operations. Researching Cult Network stops certain basic apprehension missions, which is not a big deal. But you may want to delay researching Cult Operations until you have obtained all four, because researching operations stops the safehouses, which are easy-ish missions and have a chance to being including a lot of cash if you find money briefcases or bags. Otherwise you might end up in a bad RNG situation where you haven't had a decent chance at an outpost of some cult, so you can't get all the operations and can't get Osprey, yet you only get such cult missions which are rather difficult with 5/6/8 agents (if you don't save scum) at least with higher difficulties. So you probably want to continue churning easy-ish missions until you have captured all the key cultists to get Osprey and will be better equipped to go deal with forward bases and cult HQs. So you may want to consider how you pace your cult research to get optiomal amount and kind of missions you can deal with (and take your chances when it is beneficial for you).

The other axis is how much you do such research that starts spawning new missions (for example, undercover or zombie missions). If you want to increase the amount of missions you get, you can proceed researches that enable these missions.

In my SH campaign I noticed that in the end of 1997, after terminating one cult and researching all but one Cult Operations, the amount of missions generated was actually rather low (rarely even two missions going on at the same time, compared to the early game when there might be even three or four), and you might go for 5 days without a single mission. But this might also be partially an illusion, because in early game you would use (mostly) ridiculously slow vans to drive to the missions which would take forever and also consequently trigger overlapping missions. But now using a humvee, helicopter or dragonfly you can deal with any nearby-ish missions quickly before the next one spawns.

Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: krautbernd on April 29, 2023, 11:30:23 am
In my SH campaign I noticed that in the end of 1997, after terminating one cult and researching all but one Cult Operations, the amount of missions generated was actually rather low (rarely even two missions going on at the same time, compared to the early game when there might be even three or four), and you might go for 5 days without a single mission. But this might also be partially an illusion, because in early game you would use (mostly) ridiculously slow vans to drive to the missions which would take forever and also consequently trigger overlapping missions. But now using a humvee, helicopter or dragonfly you can deal with any nearby-ish missions quickly before the next one spawns.

This is not exclusive to superhuman, I have noticed this on my "normal" playthroughs as well, where in mid-game I can go days to weeks without a single mission popping up. I think this is one of the tradeoffs of how the mission system works in OXCE in conjunction with mods that have very large mission pools with low spawn chances. Spawn chance isn't cumulative - if you have 20 missions with 3% generation chance you don't have a 60% chance to spawn a mission.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on April 29, 2023, 12:36:31 pm
While the occasional dearth of missions is indeed a feature of the low-chance mission generation, I think it's more to do with the fact that good (pseudo-)randomness isn't uniform, unlike what humans intuitively think. And, conversely, you can also get more than one mission from these 20x3% spawns.

So sometimes there are stretches of activity or inactivity despite what the probability seems to want to tell you. And humans remember the outliers, even if statistically there's nothing strange in some popping up every now and then.

There's also the excessive randomness of which missions you actually end up with, which sometimes kills all progress and makes you essentially run in place, reinforcing the impression that nothing is really happening, even if missions are triggering in usual numbers.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: NuclearStudent on May 02, 2023, 11:08:43 am
Being rather casualty averse on my SH run, I've found myself *not* rushing biolabs, and instead focusing on kevlar and then getting Helicopters for my first real transport. (I don't bother with vans.) As a result, I haven't been bothering to spend the money on Dragonflies, given that it's only a 6->8 capacity increase.

Though I dunno, the next upgrade along the Skyranger path doesn't come for a long time, and Osprey is a dead-end research, which is more of a concern because I've delayed research.

Also, goddamn, shotguns with baton rounds are amazing. Love it.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 02, 2023, 02:09:10 pm
Dragonflies are considerably faster than helicopters, and +33% manpower is nothing to sneeze at. For milk runs, the difference isn't all that big, but when you need those extra agents, you really need them.

The night lights suck, though.

The Osprey is bigger than even a Skyranger, and doubles/triples your current squad size. It's your go-to cult base/HQ/mansion/other big mission craft until the Kitsune or Skyranger/Skymarshall come along.

Baton rounds aren't as reliable as tasers, but the range is pretty nice. Once enemies start being armoured, their usefulness kinda falls off, but for a while they're pretty nice. If only the dart guns were an actual upgrade...
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 03, 2023, 07:10:45 am
I restarted because I wanted to test different early-game strategies and got bored with my save-scumming, and I am replaying with veteran ironman. (So far, I think I could very well have managed everything also with superhuman, because you'll need to abort a lot missions anyway, especially if there are are too many zombies or other monsters for your level of comfort.) I went for both logistics and kevlar vests and then biolabs. I also built a large storage facility early so that I would not need to worry about all the stuff for a long time. But early game research includes a lot of tradeoffs, including how aggressively you try to build up the research capacity versus do research that helps you immediately (e.g. better weapons and transports). A bit further into the game, I'm using humvee and helicopter almost exlusively, and a private car for some missions where these would take too long a time (and a van only in a few undercover missions). I ended up skipping dragonfly, because it seems to be unusable for doing night missions (unless you also use smoke) and you'd really need it only for HQs and other special missions (and it'd take one precious hangar slot). But unless you resort to save/reloads, you likely don't want to go for those missions with 8 units anyway. So I kept harvesting cult safehouses and outposts until I had all the requirements for all cult operations, and researched all of them at the same time at the end of March 1998. So far I have completely skipped exalt liquidation and black lotus party missions as those would likely be lethal. There is already one manor visible on the map and I suppose at least two others invisible (I got chased by cars in Nigeria and Thailand when going on a mission). Now I can get Osprey to go for the missions where completing them safely requires more agents and preferably also supporting units such as dogs and scout drones.

If you play ironman and/or want to avoid save-scumming, you'll need to learn how the sniper/spotter mechanic works. In early missions (apprehension/safehouse) this is not a major factor (though red dawn safehouses  also include a few units that can act as snipers), but in later cult missions this is vital. Apparently you can use various grenades and I think also all grenade launchers to take out the cultists so that they don't learn your location and the snipers start targeting you (but if you shoot anyone, the snipers will react and can target you for 2-5 turns depending on their intelligence). You could usually survive their gunfire - so far back they seldom even hit unless they have some sniper rifle - but an occasional grenade, dynamite or grenade launcher shot could wreck you. So, unless you have access to cover that protects you from enemy grenades and/or gunfire, you'll want to avoid firing at the cultists if there are snipers present. With outdoors missions, usually there is no cover, unless you hide below the dragonfly (and then you can no longer leverage the darkness and need to use smoke) or osprey. With cityscape missions, you could go for a nearby building but this is a bit risky as there may be someone inside. One challenge is that occasionally the cult missions spawn in a cityscape environment and sometimes wide-area outdoors and you don't know when equipping the squad which one to prepare for (and all-grenades tactic is risky in cityscape). So for safety, you'll probably need to equip for both and drop the gun if it's an outdoors mission like they typically are.

By always going for the cult missions at night with humvee or helicopter and using mostly grenades and grenade launchers when there are enemy sniper units, the enemy snipers haven't stood a chance and I have also avoided enemy grenades which was an occasional problem when I used sniper rifles from the dark in my previous SH run. The drawback with grenades is that you may end up destroying some of the corpses and the loot (though for example money briefcases and bags are safely stored inside a crate), but better safe than sorry.

By the way, which soldier enhancements are worth it? If I understand correctly, various early-game enhancements usually drop your sanity by some points and I am wondering whether it's worth it in the longer term. But actually, contrary to the text ("permanent cost of 20 Sanity") seems to implicate, they lower the current level, not the maximum, so you can train the lost sanity back up. So a temporary loss of sanity wouldn't actually seem like an issue? This certainly seems to be the case for bio-enhancement (one of my agents is back at the 120 stat cap) and I suppose therefore gun kata is also worth going for. Dagonization does not sound so useful in the paper, but if you can regain the 20 sanity by going on missions, why not? On the other hand, blood boosting harms the bravery and PSI skill as well, so doing that is most likely not a good idea.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 03, 2023, 08:56:30 am
unless you also use smoke
Heresy! Who doesn't use smoke?! :o

the snipers will react and can target you for 2-5 turns depending on their intelligence)
Not unless they also saw the target with their own eyes. Spotting duration depends on the spotter's, well, 'spotter' value. And that's at most 2 for the biggest baddest cultists, and no more than 4 for endgame enemies.

It's more likely that you got spotted again during those 2-5 turns, by shooting another spotter if nothing else.

By the way, which soldier enhancements are worth it?
Bio Enchancement, Combat Pilot Training, Martial Arts and TNI are nearly mandatory, minor sanity loss notwithstanding. CPT and Martial Arts need to be done before the soldier is fully statted for best effect.

Gun Kata seems mostly useless for the cost, including the Psiclone which has other uses. You also need to do it before maxing firing to get the full effect, which is questionable since Psiclones aren't exactly raining from the sky at the time you really need that.

Dagonization has a high sanity cost for benefits that don't really seem to be worth it.

Blood Boosting has steep downsides and disallows quite a few other transformations. It does give you comparable positive boosts and is now pretty quick and cheap to do compared to the rest. Good for disposable agents, I suppose.

Sectoid Legacy and the two Helix transformations pretty much are mandatory. Especially Helix Psion with its armour boost.

So are Neoderm for dogs and Light Cycling for AIs.

Soldier type transformations are essentially what passes for character classes here. Cyborgs are probably the most generally useful, especially since they also get some stat boosts right away, including NV and some internal armour. Olympians are for actually being good at psi, zombies are for meatshields that don't die. Hybrids are an early form of Olympians, generally a bit less physical but faster, with a bit less psi skill fully upgraded (and even more minuscule psi vision) and no innate flight but better armour and NV.

...they lower the current level, not the maximum...

This certainly seems to be the case for bio-enhancement (one of my agents is back at the 120 stat cap)...
No, the sanity loss is real. It's just that you're likely picking up commendations that raise your sanity max back up again. Go check your soldier stat boosts (the '+' in soldier info screen).
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 03, 2023, 09:57:23 am
Heresy! Who doesn't use smoke?! :o

In vanilla-like games and mods with shorter LOS I have certainly used it a lot. But here due to LOS being so huge, you'll either need lots of smoke, darkness and/or cover.

You don't really seem to benefit from it that much if you stay in the cover of darkness (and throw the flares out to expose the enemies), and it only hurts you outbound firing/grenade launcher accuracy.

Though it is a gambit in the sense that you don't know for certain whether an enemy unit is lurking close to you somewhere and you might become spotted more often if you don't use smoke as an additional safeguard. Nonetheless if you want to avoid getting spotted altogether you may want to deploy a disposable unit (e.g. a dog) that does more of scouting and tries to retreat to some cover if/when spotted.

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Not unless they also saw the target with their own eyes.
...
It's more likely that you got spotted again during those 2-5 turns, by shooting another spotter if nothing else.

Not sure what you mean with the former, it seems to be in conflict with the last sentence? As far as I have been able to understand, spotters don't need to see you with their own eyes - it is enough that you shoot them. Are you saying that firing at the spotters far away that haven't seen you doesn't trigger the spotting/sniping mechanic? And actually, the enemy sniping/grenades that has affected me has always been caused by the spotters next to me (for example, during turn 1) and it has continued for a number of turns even though there hasn't been any new spottings?

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Spotting duration depends on the spotter's, well, 'spotter' value. And that's at most 2 for the biggest baddest cultists, and no more than 4 for endgame enemies.

Quite right, I got mixed up with sniper's intelligence and spotter's spotting value. Both affect the sniper enemy units but for the purposes of firing or throwing grenades at the agents, without personal LOS, the spotter value seems to be relevant one.

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No, the sanity loss is real. It's just that you're likely picking up commendations that raise your sanity max back up again. Go check your soldier stat boosts (the '+' in soldier info screen).

Yes, correct. In some cases, the combined effect of enhancement and commendations was net positive, in some cases slightly negative.

But I suppose the the original point remains: how much sanity do you actually need. If sanity damage is 1 per turn, I suppose the you could do with much less than 120. Unless there are some attacks or more serious effects on sanity.

Thanks for the summary of enhancements and transformations.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 03, 2023, 12:02:48 pm
You don't really seem to benefit from it that much if you stay in the cover of darkness (and throw the flares out to expose the enemies), and it only hurts you outbound firing/grenade launcher accuracy.
I have disabled the 'throw grenades/flares all over the map' exploit/feature for myself, so that no longer works for me. But even without that, in my experience smoke allows you to control vision with more precision and less micro than flares. Snipers ignore both, anyway.

I know others like night missions, and perhaps I am too attached to long-range firepower, but night-time seems to be worse for shooting enemies long-range than smoke is.

Also, LOS doesn't really matter, since it doesn't reduce the effectiveness of smoke. Defensively, smoke is as good as ever. What it does worse in this mod is limiting your own sight range, but that also applies to night, and even more so.

Not sure what you mean with the former, it seems to be in conflict with the last sentence?
I meant that the snipers' intelligence only comes into play if they see you themselves, not via spotters.

...and it has continued for a number of turns even though there hasn't been any new spottings?
How do you know that? Players have been notoriously unreliable about determining who and when spots them ever since 1994.

The only way to be sure is to examine the save every turn, have you done that?

Unless there are some attacks or more serious effects on sanity.
There are. Up to 4 per turn for the worst missions. Plus the Klein Bottle, but that's a pretty rare threat.

There is also the fact that sanity doesn't recover immediately, and there might be more sanity-draining missions than time to recover. That was the original intention behind this mechanic, anyway, an analogue to nuCom fatige or Piratez' freshness.

Sanity is also used to fuel quite a few psionic weapons, including Psi Amps and similar.

Thanks for the summary of enhancements and transformations.
You're welcome!
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 03, 2023, 12:50:58 pm
I have disabled the 'throw grenades/flares all over the map' exploit/feature for myself, so that no longer works for me. But even without that, in my experience smoke allows you to control vision with more precision and less micro than flares. Snipers ignore both, anyway.

I certainly agree that the mod would be very different if the throwing ranges would be drastically reduced. I suppose that halving them would be at least in the early game (with strengths such as 50-60) significant enough to require a change in the battlescape tactics (and prevent a stray enemy grenade, even if not a grenade launcher as well). This would also make it more important to use grenade launchers which would not necessarily be impacted by the change (at least not to the same extent).

This would be similar to what a recent update of TWoTS did to underwater throwables (extendedUnderwaterThrowFactor: 60). One could define a fixed throwRange, but AFAICS not scale down the lengths except by increasing the weight of throwables (another mod chose this path by making grenades and such 5+ weight, I think).

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How do you know that? Players have been notoriously unreliable about determining who and when spots them ever since 1994.

The only way to be sure is to examine the save every turn, have you done that?

No, I haven't. This is the first mod where I have encountered this mechanic so I'm trying to understand it. The best explanation of the logic is in the early thread detailing it (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5679.0.html), but that thread does not include anything on differences how you hit the spotter (gunfire, grenades, grenade launcher - and whether it's crucial whether it's a direct hit or an area effect - and whether killing the spotter in one shot prevents from relaying that information to the snipers) which at least seems to cause a different behavior and you seem to agree that this impacts the logic. Though I'm not sure if I can easily find this in the code, so it's not inconceivable that we'd all be wrong. I'd hope that someone else would already have done a reliable analysis.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: zombieguy223 on May 03, 2023, 02:05:50 pm
I just did a quick test of spotter mechanics by using one hit from direct fire projectiles (rifles), explosives from a weapon (LC-HE), and timed explosives (thrown grenades) and had a save immediately before and after each hit went off, and checked if the soldier was marked as spotted by comparing the turnsSinceSpotted and turnsLeftSpottedForSnipers entries in the battlescape save data before and after. The timed one was a bit trickier, but I tried to prevent contamination by only throwing a grenade with that soldier and then running them into a corner, making sure they weren't spotted before the end of my turn (pre-explosion). I'm not sure how accurate these results are, but this is what I found:

Hit w/ Rifle (no flash): Spotted
Hit w/ Rifle (red flash): Spotted
Hit w/ Rifle (kill): Spotted
Direct impact (on enemy tile) with LC-HE: Spotted
Indirect impact (on tile near enemy, hitting with AoE) with LC-HE: Not spotted
Direct impact timed grenade: Spotted
Indirect impact timed grenade: Not spotted

The timed explosives are the results I'm least confident about, since they're pretty difficult to reliably test with this method, but everything else seems reproducible. The AoE spotting may be influenced by whether the enemy hit is within 1 tile of the explosion or further away, but I can't confirm. I hope this information is useful to someone.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 03, 2023, 02:36:40 pm
The timed explosives are the results I'm least confident about, since they're pretty difficult to reliably test with this method, but everything else seems reproducible. The AoE spotting may be influenced by whether the enemy hit is within 1 tile of the explosion or further away, but I can't confirm. I hope this information is useful to someone.

Thanks. This is extremely useful to me. As you can confirm AoE effect with LC-HE (-> not spotted unless you actually hit the target squarely), it'd seem plausible that similar AoE would also apply to timed explosives. However, it could be conceivable that hitting 1 square off the target would be different to more squares off (because the differentiation is already done when applying the damage to under armor versus other armor), but I doubt it. Why it has appeared as if explosives don't affect spotting is likely due to the fact that you rather rarely precisely hit the target unit but rather land on some nearby square. And based on these findings, you might in some cases actually rather want to miss the target :o.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 03, 2023, 03:19:54 pm
I did some tests, too, and edited the relevant flags beforehand plus wasted all enemies facing my way to make sure only my actions mattered. And Sectoid psi-vision kept screwing things up. :(

My results seem to mostly agree with zombieguy223. Although, as far as I can tell, even a direct hit from a timed grenade or proxy doesn't get you spotted, even if it does get you seen.

There were a few cases when I got spotted for merely throwing the grenade, so maybe the 'nade has to actually hit the enemy? Or maybe it was psi-vision or some sort of reaction vision, since the times I did not get spotted with direct grenades I made sure there was no LoS between the thrower and any enemy.

I can add that a kill with an instant grenade doesn't get you noticed at all (or maybe it does, not sure), while in other cases you pretty much always get seen, but not spotted for snipers if the hit was indirect.

One could define a fixed throwRange, but AFAICS not scale down the lengths except by increasing the weight of throwables (another mod chose this path by making grenades and such 5+ weight, I think).
That's what I did.

Back in 2016 or so, when I fiddled more with XCF, I reduced all human-ish strength values down to 20-30 or so, which produced similar but scaling results and let power armours have the role of mortars as well. Compensated by adding ~50 'free' carrying capacity to all armours.

...whether killing the spotter in one shot prevents from relaying that information to the snipers...
Doesn't seem to matter. Nor whether you're off by one square or more.


This whole sniper-spotter thing was never intended to be given to so many enemies, but since modders use what they can get and ohartenstein refused to change anything that'd move it from 'alien death sniper/Land Raider Lascannon' towards 'cultist taking potshots', well, here we are.

Brutal AI did remove this strange spotting mechanic, but it also has aliens using blind fire and having global squadsight, so the end result is not very different.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 03, 2023, 03:39:45 pm
Thanks for the further testing. I wonder what happens with various grenade launchers: with HE/napalm like grenades which could hit directly or miss and produce an AoE effect, or with blunt grenades which require a direct hit. I suppose that the code would not treat grenade launchers or arcing shots in general differently from direct gunfire shots. Though arguably grenade launchers are actually pretty close to turning on instant grenades option, so I would not be surprised if these were treated the same.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 03, 2023, 03:44:15 pm
But as far as I can tell, they aren't. Instant grenades are the best thing ever for not getting spotted, while launchers behave like guns with direct hits and like grenades with misses that still do damage via explosions.

My testing did feature arcing grenade launchers with HE, and they behaved pretty much like the Light Cannon HE did for zombieguy223. Didn't try incendiaries, but I don't see why they should be different.

I think instant grenades probably weren't considered at all when all this was designed.


Edit: Tried some more tests. It's actually quite strange. Pure fire (no direct damage, only fire special rules), smoke and stun grenades don't register even on a direct hit. Napalm (+direct damage) does get you both seen and spotted, but does neither on an indirect hit. Launcher napalm is the same. Gas grenades (smoke but does damage) behave like regular grenades.

Edit2: Tried instant grenades again, and this time they got me seen but not spotted for snipers, for both direct and indirect hits. Gah, I give up!
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 04, 2023, 05:46:31 am
Yes, indirect AOE doesn't activate "spotted" state for sniper-spotter mechanic. However, killing any unit makes attacker being "seen" by regular AI mechanics. Whatever in-game behaviour that amounts to, I don't know, since I don't know how exactly regular AI works. In practice, it seems to rarely target unseen targets, but still does it.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 04, 2023, 08:37:27 am
However, killing any unit makes attacker being "seen" by regular AI mechanics.
Doesn't seem to be true for incendiaries, smokes and stun. And not even for indirect fire-damage-on-hit kills.

Would be nice if someone confirmed this, since my results didn't seem to always be consistent.

Whatever in-game behaviour that amounts to, I don't know, since I don't know how exactly regular AI works. In practice, it seems to rarely target unseen targets, but still does it.
I've not seen AI shoot an 'unseen' target without sniping, for one. You occasionally get grenades or other explosives meant for someone else.

Otherwise, it stops its patrol routes and kinda moves towards the 'seen' units, but not in a deterministic or straightforward manner. And psi attacks you if it can.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 04, 2023, 04:55:09 pm
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Doesn't seem to be true for incendiaries, smokes and stun. And not even for indirect fire-damage-on-hit kills.
Not sure how are you checking. I'm alluding to this line (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/884aef982b68261014ae0225661f0ce47268e459/src/Battlescape/BattlescapeGame.cpp#L869). It definitely triggers both on gas and grenade kills.

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I've not seen AI shoot an 'unseen' target without sniping, for one. You occasionally get grenades or other explosives meant for someone else.

Otherwise, it stops its patrol routes and kinda moves towards the 'seen' units, but not in a deterministic or straightforward manner. And psi attacks you if it can.
What, you never got blastered from the dark? But yeah, that's why I'm saying - *rarely*. This behaviour can be mostly, but not completely disregarded. Didn't see some of that myself either, but some experienced players accounted that they got grenaded from beyond visible range without sniper/spotter active.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 04, 2023, 06:07:45 pm
Not sure how are you checking.
By saving, throwing the 'nade, saving again and comparing the saves. Try it yourself.

I'm alluding to this line. It definitely triggers both on gas and grenade kills.
This awards kills. We were talking about detection on hit more than kill.

In any case, that line does not trigger on anything that doesn't reduce health, like smoke or stun. Not sure what's up with napalm, maybe burning to death doesn't count, either. Or possibly there's contaminion because that's the first hit of the battle, so there's no-one to assign 'blame' for the kill to.

I guess it makes you technically right in that actual kills get you noticed (unless the blame is hard to assign for some reason), but something is up with fire and stuns aren't kills for this purpose.

...some experienced players accounted that they got grenaded from beyond visible range without sniper/spotter active.
Was this XCF, vanilla OXCE or some other mod?

Anyway, players - even experienced players - have told various kinds of tall tales over the years. Their truthfulness varies, even if the teller is sincere.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 05, 2023, 05:25:13 am
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I guess it makes you technically right in that actual kills get you noticed
Yes, by regular AI visibility. It's used in regular AI behavour. Sniper-spotter visibility is different. It has only 2 triggers - when spotter sees you directly, and on direct projectile hits (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/884aef982b68261014ae0225661f0ce47268e459/src/Battlescape/ProjectileFlyBState.cpp#L1026), including, say, rockets, but not not their AOE. And not end-of-turn activated grenades. When player character is snipper-spotter visible, units with "sniper" value defined in the ruleset have chance (equal to the value) to attack the character. That's basically all you need to know.

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We were talking about detection on hit more than kill.
Who are "we"? "Are these people in the room with us"?
I wrote specifically about kills and then you jump out with "nuh-uh" to me, and I'm replying to you.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 05, 2023, 07:24:12 am
Who are "we"? "Are these people in the room with us"?
Me, psavola, zombieguy223, at least. And, yes, they're in the same thread as us.

I wrote specifically about kills and then you jump out with "nuh-uh" to me, and I'm replying to you.
You wrote about kills in a thread discussion about spotting in general, and now want to hide behind 'but technically I'm right!" What matters in for gameplay strategy (what this thread is about) is whether your agents get spotted, not whether they actually killed someone in the process of getting spotted. Killing is up to the RNG gods, throwing and shooting (including the target) is up to the player.

It has only 2 triggers - when spotter sees you directly, and on direct projectile hits, including, say, rockets, but not not their AOE. And not end-of-turn activated grenades.
Well, I suppose sometimes the grenade hits the enemy and gets you spotted, then. The grenades generally didn't get me spotted, even on a direct hit, but sometimes did after end-of-turn, and at one time even for throwing.

So, in practice, controlling whether you do 'projectile hits' or whether someone spots you because of special vision rules like Sectoid psi-vision or corner cases, and whether the death is counted or not due to burning or stun damage or whatever (or the 'blame' game with explosions and assigning kills to the likeliest culprit.) is more complicated than "That's basically all you need to know."
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 05, 2023, 01:10:51 pm
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What matters in for gameplay strategy (what this thread is about) is whether your agents get spotted, not whether they actually killed someone in the process of getting spotted.
It matters whether sitting in smoke chucking grenades is completely foolproof strategy. It's not, even when executed perfectly, due to said kills affecting visibility. But it's still darn effective strategy.
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Well, I suppose sometimes the grenade hits the enemy and gets you spotted, then.
This never happens. There's no such thing as "direct grenade hit" (i.e. it doesn't hit unit, explode and deal damage), unless that's grenade from a launcher - i.e. effectively a rocket.
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Is more complicated
It's really not unless you're making it out to be. Corner cases don't affect main strategy being "Not in 6-sided cover? Guess I'll die."
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You wrote about kills in a thread discussion about spotting in general, and now want to hide behind 'but technically I'm right!"
No. You failed to properly read 2 sentences that I wrote about thing X and now hiding behind "b-but were talking about thing Y".
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 05, 2023, 04:31:26 pm
It matters whether sitting in smoke chucking grenades is completely foolproof strategy. It's not, even when executed perfectly, due to said kills affecting visibility.
Or whether the enemy is inside a building you can't throw grenades into, or you're in some caves where throwing is severely limited, or there are some Sectopods around negating most of your smoke's effectiveness, or...

Or it actually works because your grenade was a stun grenade and thus not a kill. Or an incendiary and the kill got attributed to 'burning' and thus you may get spotted a turn later when the victim dies, or never if someone else shot the burning fella in the meantime.


In any case, 'seen' visibility hasn't been the problem here, so while valid, this is not a particularly topical criticism of the "smoke&nade" strategy.

This never happens. There's no such thing as "direct grenade hit"...
In that case I don't know how I got some incendiary kills to get me spotted for snipers. Maybe I was not quite as isolated from sight as I thought, maybe I misread the files, maybe some other issue. And if I don't get it in a somewhat controlled experiment, an actual mission is going to be a lot harder to decipher.

It's really not unless you're making it out to be.
So, can you predict with at least 95% accuracy whether a grenade toss will get you spotted, seen, both or neither; in one turn or several? The only consistent thing seems to be that you won't get sniper-spotted by the victim unless something else is going on, and will get snipered if you shoot and hit a spotter.

You failed to properly read 2 sentences that I wrote about thing X and now hiding behind "b-but were talking about thing Y".
Ah, the classic "No, U!" defense.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 05, 2023, 05:43:18 pm
Just yesterday I played Red Dawn HQ and Dagon Forward Base with a tactic that (up to a certain point), I positioned about 8-10 agents separately in a good cover at the edge of the map close by and made damn sure they didn't try to shoot anyone and no one saw them. I even had to do Red Dawn HQ during day because it was located in the North Pole during a summer time, so no cover of darkness would be available. They just kept throwing regular and incendiary grenades for about 5-15 turns. I didn't notice a single time that the enemies would have tried to target them. The enemies did try to target my spotters - a few units, e.g. dogs, which went out to spot the enemy and fled back up the ramp of the Osprey or somewhere else (where someone usually tried to shoot them and eventually mostly killed them). Some of this might of course have been luck, but mostly reflects to to the most recent results here.

There are some cases in which the protection of smoke is inadequate. Juku already mentioned some, for example, enemies with heat vision. Another one might be that the explosion height is forced to 2 (instead of round shape at 3). In many missions there are buildings at least 3 levels high. I think in some cases (e.g. a building is close enough) enemies could see your guys over the smoke. I have certainly seen the partial ineffectiveness of smoke agaist flying enemies with forced explosion height with TWoTS as well as in TFTD city terror missions the enemies up in the level 4 usually killing the aquanauts regardless of smoke (until you set the height to 3). I doubt this affected Juku's tests, but could be one factor among many where the results could be unreliable.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 06, 2023, 08:40:10 am
Quote from: psavola
There are some cases in which the protection of smoke is inadequate. Juku already mentioned some, for example, enemies with heat vision.
Smoke still works most of the time, as heat vision is not end-all for smoke tactics.
Dog-level heat vision is not particularly effective, is it? And that's what most enemies with heat vision have. Whereas you can roll with rats, scout drones, or even bats. Sectopods completely disregard smoke, but their posse usually don't.
Psi-sense isn't end-all either. Sectoids are easily fooled with smoke. Ethereals - not so much (works over really long, 20+ tiles, distances).

The real kryptonite to `smoke + distance` defence are AOE attacks. 50% accuracy debuff is not enough to protect you against EXALT grenadiers.

Quote from: psavola
In many missions there are buildings at least 3 levels high. I think in some cases (e.g. a building is close enough) enemies could see your guys over the smoke.
I tested with debug mode how far away RD pioneer sees my armored vest guy in mortar shell smoke, after it diffused for a couple turns, at daytime.
On ground (height 0), he's seen from 4 tiles away from East: XxxxxR
At height 1 : same, 4 tiles. At height 2: 6 tiles. H3 : 6, H4: 8, H5: 9, H6: 10 ... H10: ~14.
So yes, height allows to see units a bit farther through smoke. But it depends how exactly did the smoke diffuse - in some cases, like close to walls, I wasn't able to get viewing distance less than 8 tiles at H10, compared to 14 of previous example. And in some cases viewing target from the north instead of east/etc., adds/subtracts 1-2 tiles of visibility.
I didn't test the reverse visibility though - will the x-com guy on the ground see floating enemy farther away?

In practice, however, manor attacks were the only case for me when it felt like building height was the issue - I wasn't ever able to "safely" sit in smoke there, always being swarmed with enemies. Floaters did surprise me a couple of times, but were quickly dealt with. Something like 3-tile high lab ships were never a problem.

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Or an incendiary and the kill got attributed to 'burning' and thus you may get spotted a turn later when the victim dies, or never if someone else shot the burning fella in the meantime.
Incendiary has 3 damage components to it - basic explosion, fire status effect, and terrain damage, so I guess terrain kill attribution can happen. However, when I can't afford risks, to be on safe side, I would always just assume that it was my guy who it was attributed to. Same with all your so-called 'deciphering'. That's why it's quite simple matter.

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In any case, 'seen' visibility hasn't been the problem here, so while valid, this is not a particularly topical criticism of the "smoke&nade" strategy.
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And if I don't get it in a somewhat controlled experiment, an actual mission is going to be a lot harder to decipher.
...Shoulda tried actual mission?

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In that case I don't know how I got some incendiary kills to get me spotted for snipers. Maybe I was not quite as isolated from sight as I thought, maybe I misread the files, maybe some other issue.
One of these, yes.


Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Vakrug on May 06, 2023, 11:33:25 am
They just kept throwing regular and incendiary grenades for about 5-15 turns.
Yes, this is exactly what happens all the time when I use smoke. When an enemy unit don't have a line of sight to shoot, it throws explosives which are mush more dangerous.

This mechanics is one of the most annoying things is game. Mostly because it is impossible to figure it out just by playing a game. You are lucky if you have read about this mechanics somewhere, otherwise the only conclusion can be made is that stealth is not working. Which is very sad thing if you consider how much stealth stuff is in many mods.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 06, 2023, 01:01:13 pm
Smoke still works most of the time, as heat vision is not end-all for smoke tactics.
The problem with low-level heat vision is not that it renders smoke useless, it's that it throws off any smoke calculations you might have become accustomed to while fighting against enemies without HV. So you'll be making more mistakes and you're going to need more smoke, and more smoke means an opportunity cost because throwing/launching smoke is not free.

Sectoids are easily fooled with smoke. Ethereals - not so much (works over really long, 20+ tiles, distances).
Sectoid leadership got a boost recently, to exactly 20 tiles. And the danger with Sectoids is that it is far easier to miscalculate, especially when there are walls and buildings nearby. 20 tiles is not an inconsiderable distance, it can easily be on the other side of the hill or something.


Anyway, yes, smoke still works against heat vision. But it works less well, and isn't the kind of foolproof tactic it used to be.


The real kryptonite to `smoke + distance` defence are AOE attacks. 50% accuracy debuff is not enough to protect you against EXALT grenadiers.
That, and snipers in general. If they shoot you 50 times, it doesn't matter that their chance to hit is 2 not-percent. That's what resurrected this whole discussion in the first place.


I would always just assume that it was my guy who it was attributed to. Same with all your so-called 'deciphering'. That's why it's quite simple matter.
Anything looks simple after oversimplifying.

Shoulda tried actual mission?
What for?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 06, 2023, 03:15:19 pm
Yes, this is exactly what happens all the time when I use smoke. When an enemy unit don't have a line of sight to shoot, it throws explosives which are mush more dangerous.

This mechanics is one of the most annoying things is game. Mostly because it is impossible to figure it out just by playing a game. You are lucky if you have read about this mechanics somewhere, otherwise the only conclusion can be made is that stealth is not working. Which is very sad thing if you consider how much stealth stuff is in many mods.

You misunderstood, I should have been clearer, I meant exactly the opposite. By "they" in this context I was referring to my agents. Those that just kept throwing grenades and deliberately not shooting anyone were not attacked at all, while in vanilla game and other mods I would have used those agents to shoot enemies with snipers (which results in gunfire and grenades back at you). There have been some instances of grenades thrown at me, but in those I have already been spotted or seen. And indeed, this (and the related thing: enemy grenade launchers) is what I'm the most afraid of when playing ironman.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 07, 2023, 08:23:59 am
I had Osiron Hacienda mission. All the Osiron guys are snipers but none of them are spotters. So their sniping skills and advanced weapons availed them naught. In a similar fashion, I did a Lotus Forward Base. A tricky spawn location where the Osprey ramp is next to the opening and you already see 10 enemies without moving, but darkness, smoke and running out with most of the crew to a safer spot helped a lot. I've adopted a practice to verify on most missions I'm not already familiar with (from ruleset or http://xcf.trigramreactor.net) which enemies I'm going to face and which are spotters, which are snipers and which are both. In this mission you could shoot Warriors and Assassins, otherwise it'd be normal and incendiary grenades. Forward guys only got shot a couple of times and had one enemy failed attempt at throwing a grenade at me.

Now, another topic that might be relevant to this thread. Any more general strategies on which base facilities are most essential and in which bases?

I guess I could start with a tip that someone has mentioned in passing elsewhere I think. Currently (Jun 1998) I have four bases which provide roughly world-wide coverage so that I can fly-transfer Osprey there and do essentially any kind of mission from that other base and then transfer back. This strategy seems  superior (by reducing the salary and other expenses as well as micromanagement) to trying to build independent strong agent teams in each base (I do have some 5 or so agents and smaller transports on most other bases though). You'll just need enough storage space (roughly 100, allow for a decent weapons stockpile on Osprey) on each base. [By the way, it would be nice if OXCE provided a way to check how much storage a craft with all the equipment requires, I couldn't find a way to do it.]

There seem to be so many base facilities - and more coming up - that I doubt a typical strategy of main base being able to almost everything well would work, as I anticipate running out of space with three hangars. Now I'm wondering if I should focus on building for example Science Labs in 3rd and 4th bases (those don't even have intel/bio labs yet, but science lab is more cost-efficient) and ramp up the research even more (currently at 75 scientists) or whether I should build another workshop. If the workshop (still only 20 engineers but the space will be an issue shortly), how much manufacturing capacity will actually fit in the main base or should these be built elsewhere. It appears this mod is (after early game) manufacturing heavy and manufacturing takes a huge amount of time and resources, so to be able to manufacture anything in a sensible time you'll need at least two workshops. I suspect I'll need at least two workshops in the main base because otherwise constantly transferring components and manufactured items would likely drive anyone except a micromanagement geek insane.

And another general question would be what facilities could be skipped in the main and other bases. I'm considering that, if necessary, the prison(s) and animal pens (and thinking back, maybe also alien containment) could reside only on a secondary base and you could rely on post-mission Transfer to keep live captures, but this requires that you ensure there's always free capacity at the target base (though unsure if post-mission transfer would work if the aliens attacked the base). Already did that with ghost tank and skipped rat farm completely.

Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 07, 2023, 10:26:13 am
I had Osiron Hacienda mission. All the Osiron guys are snipers but none of them are spotters.
The Osiron head honchos are spotters. Guess it's more of a flavour thing, what with them being a criminal organisation and not an army.

Now, another topic that might be relevant to this thread. Any more general strategies on which base facilities are most essential and in which bases?
A lab at the main base because of all the crap that tends to accumulate there. A workshop at any strike base, so you can replenish ammo/other perishables without too much micro. Somewhere to put all the captures and loot.

This strategy seems  superior (by reducing the salary and other expenses as well as micromanagement) to trying to build independent strong agent teams in each base...
Sanity is supposed to combat this somewhat.

You'll also have a hard time reaching time-critical missions that way, like landed UFOs (most notably, doing all of them during a base construction mission) or terror sites. Faster transports alleviate this to a degree, but rarely there just too many missions to do with one craft.

...those don't even have intel/bio labs yet, but science lab is more cost-efficient...
Bio labs and intel centers (or an HQ) are requirements for certain types of research. You can of course specialise your research bases, but IMO lab space is at a premium so I want to build all of the labs anyway.

...how much manufacturing capacity will actually fit in the main base or should these be built elsewhere.
I usually have 1-2 workshops in the main base and several manufacturing bases. But I also make 100 of everything, or so. :-[

I suppose 2-3 workshops will cover reasonable manufcturing for a while, and one-two big workshops afterwards.

And another general question would be what facilities could be skipped in the main and other bases. I'm considering that, if necessary, the prison(s) and animal pens
...
skipped rat farm completely.
Yah, the rats are a gimmick. Bats are another, but IMO better version of this.

Having one main prison (+intel research facilities) and a single backup somewhere in case you don't notice the overflow seems reasonable. I have an entire base in Antarctica filled with alien containment tanks, though. Because I'm a secret alien-fighting organisation, and that's mandatory. :D
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 14, 2023, 11:17:27 pm
Getting back experiences with spotter/sniper and additionally on dealing with manors. In my VET/IM game, I just killed off four manors that I had postponed dealing with in Sep 98. These went without any human casualties and were easier than I had anticipated; I think they were the middle sized ones. In all the missions, I was only thrown an incendiary grenade once (and that may have been due to being lax with smoke).

I dealt with those on daylight. Deploy lots of smoke at least 10 squares each direction around the landing area. The key tactic is, for the first 5-10 turns or so, not shooting anyone  who is a spotter so that you don't get shot back or grenaded by all the snipers. Instead, use dogs and preferably scout drones to figure out where the enemies are and then each turn throw a lot of grenades (a worse alternative is an agent with a motion scanner). You can also use sniper rifles (about 70-90% hit score w/ BO sniper, auto-sniper or tactical sniper rifle even if the agent can't see the target) against those enemies which are not spotters.

After most snipers are flushed out and/or panicking for some time, you may need to go into a sweep mode or find a better location from where to scout the enemies.

Two black lotus manors were actually the easiest, because you can shoot the BL followers, warriors and assassins. You'll just have to spot the assassins with preferably drones (2-3). BL also have fewer grenades or grenade launchers. One mission was already over in 10 turns or so. Exalt and Dagon both took a bit longer because almost all troops are spotters and therefore you have to play it safe. (You can always shoot the maids.)

TLDR: cheese the mod by attacking the spotters with grenades, not with guns.

BTW. I was a bit disappointed that the manors did not have loot to any significant degree.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Enoch on May 15, 2023, 02:27:26 am
A couple of newbie questions, since this is my first real playthrough of both this mod and the original X-Com.

- Between Alien Bases and Alien Colonies, which ones are meant to be the toughest? How do they compare to Hybrid Embassies?
I'm currently in mid-2000, and I can fill a Skyranger with competent, 100+ accuracy agents with a few transformations each, outfitted with Cyber Armor, X-Com made laser rifles, alien laser cannons and the like. I have no psionics or similar tricks.
Would attempting to clear a Colony or a Base be appropriate at this stage? Or am I way off?

- I saw that version 2.9 was just released. This might be a very obvious question, but can I simply update OXCE and XCF and then copy my save files over to carry on my playthrough?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 15, 2023, 05:52:06 am
Yep, if you can quickly clear out the manor it pretty much goes like that. If not, reinforcements can rein or your parade. Also, hiding on first turn isn't always trivial.
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BTW. I was a bit disappointed that the manors did not have loot to any significant degree.
Agreed.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 15, 2023, 10:36:36 am
BTW. I was a bit disappointed that the manors did not have loot to any significant degree.

Manors are supposed to be painful, not profitable. Their emergence means that the player failed to stop them from popping up. To put it bluntly, if they were profitable, it would encourage the player to play badly.

Having said that, the XP is all yours. ;)

- Between Alien Bases and Alien Colonies, which ones are meant to be the toughest? How do they compare to Hybrid Embassies?

Colonies are bigger than standard bases.
Comparing to Hybrid Embassies is not easy, because they're completely different (other than they are both underground and have similar maps).

I'm currently in mid-2000, and I can fill a Skyranger with competent, 100+ accuracy agents with a few transformations each, outfitted with Cyber Armor, X-Com made laser rifles, alien laser cannons and the like. I have no psionics or similar tricks.
Would attempting to clear a Colony or a Base be appropriate at this stage? Or am I way off?

It's hard to say for sure, buit I think it's a good place to give it a try.

- I saw that version 2.9 was just released. This might be a very obvious question, but can I simply update OXCE and XCF and then copy my save files over to carry on my playthrough?

Yes, there would be no issues.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 15, 2023, 11:10:14 pm
- Between Alien Bases and Alien Colonies, which ones are meant to be the toughest? How do they compare to Hybrid Embassies?
I'd say Hybrids are somewhat easier, excepting those effin' turrets. But it depends on which alien race you're up against, as always.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 17, 2023, 07:36:54 pm
I'd like to invite veterans to suggest a few general strategic tips on the following (early)mid-game topics (when the invasion is looming and soon to start).

There seem to be a number of tier-2 weapons, for example mass drivers, gauss, sonic, various kinds of laser, later plasma. It would be useful to hear thoughts on which ones are actually useful and which ones less so. There seem to be various tradeoffs -  for example,
- gauss looks promising but is so heavy that a normal agent can't really use it much
- most of the weapons require (at this point) rarish materials to manufacture them or the clips,
- even most lasers apparently now require batteries so they are not a free lunch either
- enhanced human-based kinetic weapons, especially the ones that include stat bonuses to power (e.g. snipers) may still be very viable.

As another point, in vanilla games, after getting PSI evaluation you would trash the agents which have low values. In some mods, transformations could be used for example, to proof the agents against PSI. There seem to be upcoming transformations which do some things. How much is alien PSI going to be an issue? Should low-PST agents be redirected to cannon fodder (and at least cease training them) or are there solutions looming? How much PST and PSK do you really need and which agents should you eventually transform to, for example, spartanism? In early-ish game agents already with less than 30 PST are not eligible for martial arts training, Will there be some other options to keep low-PST agents worth keeping and gaining more experience? The bottom line from early-midgame strategic point of view is: are low-PSI agents going to remain viable somehow  or should they be delegated to the most dangerous tasks to eventually get rid of them?

And finally, what are the key things you should have when the invasion begins (e.g. radars? interceptors, are the early missiles sufficient? etc.)

Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Juku121 on May 17, 2023, 09:33:33 pm
There seem to be a number of tier-2 weapons, for example mass drivers, gauss, sonic, various kinds of laser, later plasma. It would be useful to hear thoughts on which ones are actually useful and which ones less so.
Mass drivers and gauss weapons have terrible ergonomics and no armour penetration beyond damage. Also heavy as hell. I don't really like them as they are. Less damage and more armour piercing would be better, IMO.

Lasers have pretty good ergonomics, work against more armours than firearms, and are quite accurate. Turbolasers also don't need ammo and have a good variety of different types. These are your immediate upgrade to guns, even if you have to loot ammo from the MiB.

Plasma is good as always. :) But nowhere near the end-all be-all weapon the Heavy Plasma was in the OG. There are quite a few cases when plasma is not the optimal choice.

Sonics can go underwater and the guns with special ammo are interesting. I wish sonic was its own damage type, especially since aquatic enemies tend to be resistant to concussive damage. The guns themselves suffer from the same ergonomics issues that plague the mass drivers.

Pulse guns with chem ammo are awesome.

As another point, in vanilla games, after getting PSI evaluation you would trash the agents which have low values.
Same thing here, but due to enormous enemy variety, poor PSI agents are more viable throughout the game. Whether you want to go through the micro of separating and deploying them as B or C teams... Moreover, commendations and the time spent qualifying for and getting transformations means replacing a PSI-weak veteran is not without its costs.

IMO, enemy psi is much less prevalent, but when it does hit it hits as hard as ever. So you need a psi-proofed team, but not necessarily a psi-proofed organisation.

... and which agents should you eventually transform to, for example, spartanism?
No clue, haven't played with those yet. Probably no hard and fast rule, as with other soldier type transformations. Although the stat boosts do look like you'd want every non-psion to become a Spartan. ???

The bottom line from early-midgame strategic point of view is: are low-PSI agents going to remain viable somehow  or should they be delegated to the most dangerous tasks to eventually get rid of them?
I'd say veterans should remain viable even against most late-game enemies. Whether they're competitive vs a well-built and screened agent, probably not.

And finally, what are the key things you should have when the invasion begins (e.g. radars? interceptors, are the early missiles sufficient? etc.)
IMO, the biggest thing you need is a fast and spacious transport. Skyraider at the minimum, ideally Kitsune. Radars and more bases to put them in (3-4 at least) second, global coverage is not all that reliable. Interceptors aren't going to be very useful against all but the smallest UFOs for a while. You need Thunderstorms to actually get some air game. Early interceptors are more of a cult containment measure.

Weapons and armour sufficient to take out higher-tier manors and cult HQs. Anti-alien performance won't really be critical for quite a while.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 18, 2023, 03:54:52 pm
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There seem to be a number of tier-2 weapons, for example mass drivers, gauss, sonic, various kinds of laser, later plasma. It would be useful to hear thoughts on which ones are actually useful and which ones less so.
Mass drivers are poor-man (in black)'s gauss, lacking auto-fire and having less damage. They also weigh a little less. Yet, MD, gauss and lasers kinda all useful, all found relatively at the same time,  and I'm not sure one can't do other's jobs.

Still, lasers feel like universal cure so that's what I usually go with. They're lightweight, accurate, have decent damage, usually good against robots, and limited ammo is not really an issue if you ration it properly. Gauss cannon works wonders on crafts though.

Sonic weapons can be found earlier, around 98. No auto, meh accuracy, damage falloff with range, but GOOD damage, thus good in close combat. In particular, sonic shotgun is small (1x2 in size) and powerful - best breaching sidearm. Also, sonics are handy underwater.

Plasma is still plasma, but there are some endgame targets resistant to it, so it needs to be mixed with something like lasers.
TLDR, commonly you can get through the game with just common firearms and lasers, maybe sonics for underwater missions.
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How much is alien PSI going to be an issue?
In my experience, none whatsoever. I had my dogs/rats controlled by sectoids, though. Also there is one or two late game missions with strong alien psionics. Can't say they need psi-proof team.

PStrength, PSkill, bravery, and current morale is used to defend against psi-attacks. So agents with low PStrength 30-60, but maxed PSkill (50) & Bravery (100 + commendations, 120-170) can reliably withstand 95% psi-attacks in the game even on superhuman. I deployed troops with less 30 PStrength veterans against Ethereals without issue, but not that many times, so can't really vouch for it.

But still, it makes sense to recruit rookies with 80+ PStrength. Offensive psionics should only be 80-100 PStrength hybrids. Humans psionics are usable, but meh even at 100 PST until late game (olympianism).
There is rare mission in the game that allows you to raise PStrength by 7.
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which agents should you eventually transform to, for example, spartanism
Olympianism is for human psionics, and proteanism is for meaty assaults. Both not strictly necessary. Both mess with psi-def, boosting it a little in case of the latter.
Kyberos is currently standard transformation. It raises stat caps for firing, health, reactions, etc., by about 20.
Spartans seems to be in the works now. It offers 40 TUs to boot in addition to 20~ish bonuses around, and no PSI resistance issues. I guess it'll be new meta but we'll see, I'm not sure these bonuses are applied as-is.
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And finally, what are the key things you should have when the invasion begins (e.g. radars? interceptors, are the early missiles sufficient? etc.)
1-2 large radars per base, and 4-6 bases is enough to detect most UFOs. Early, you can just tail UFOs with your transport until they land, like good old times. But there are some hunter-killer UFOs that pretend being docile... Ravens\Thunderstorms (with Heavy Stingrays) are first adult interceptors, and should be used in squads of 2-3. Migs\Interceptors can be ignored.

In battlescape, at minimum, dogs and smoke can beat most early aliens without much losses.
Tactical grenade launchers, lasers / blops snipers help clearing outside of UFOs.
Throwing axes are good to one-shot both soft and hard targets like hybrid drones or medium-armored MIBs. EMP grenades and mines are good to have against robots/heavy mibs/tanks/sectopods.

Armor is also not really necessary for beating early aliens, but raises comfort quite a bit. Plasma rifle one-shot kills of 70hp agents are unlikely even against personal armor (or trit vest if taken strictly upfront). Cyber armor is slightly better and offers decent overall protection. Power/flying suit is only trumped by Shock in plasma def. Assault/Stormtrooper trades some defence for mobility and kicking butts in melee. Also, assault moves very well underwater, and stormtrooper sees very well underwater. But you usually complete underwater before both...
Magma power armor is bad against plasma, but good against kinetic. Which is kinda sad, because it's earned through beating reptoids with kinetic...
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Enoch on May 18, 2023, 09:36:56 pm
Colonies are bigger than standard bases.
Comparing to Hybrid Embassies is not easy, because they're completely different (other than they are both underground and have similar maps).
It's hard to say for sure, buit I think it's a good place to give it a try.

I'd say Hybrids are somewhat easier, excepting those effin' turrets. But it depends on which alien race you're up against, as always.

Hey, thanks for your answers. I ended up trying an Alien Base, it went very well. I would agree that Hybrid bases are easier, although those chem weapons can be tricky to deal with. And yes, those turrets are unforgiving.

I have another question, I understand it's more OpenXcom related but I'm hoping you can help: when "sprinting" with your agents (as per the alternate movement method available in the advanced options), is it normal for them not to stop when spotting an enemy?
If not, it seems that when I press Ctrl (I use left Ctrl, it's more ergonomic for me), the game also registers it as Shift, making my units not stop when in line of fire of an enemy. Is there a keybinds file I can edit to change either of these bindings?
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2023, 10:08:01 pm
R-click stops your unit's movement. Just be quick.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: psavola on May 19, 2023, 10:36:32 am
Mass drivers are poor-man (in black)'s gauss, lacking auto-fire and having less damage. They also weigh a little less. Yet, MD, gauss and lasers kinda all useful, all found relatively at the same time,  and I'm not sure one can't do other's jobs.

Still, lasers feel like universal cure so that's what I usually go with. They're lightweight, accurate, have decent damage, usually good against robots, and limited ammo is not really an issue if you ration it properly. Gauss cannon works wonders on crafts though.

Sonic weapons can be found earlier, around 98. No auto, meh accuracy, damage falloff with range, but GOOD damage, thus good in close combat. In particular, sonic shotgun is small (1x2 in size) and powerful - best breaching sidearm. Also, sonics are handy underwater.

Plasma is still plasma, but there are some endgame targets resistant to it, so it needs to be mixed with something like lasers.
TLDR, commonly you can get through the game with just common firearms and lasers, maybe sonics for underwater missions.In my experience, none whatsoever.

Thanks for this and other general tips. What you write about sonic shotgun is very interesting, especially now that I was just now offered a chance to either return the tech for 5M or develop it myself. I'd be tempted to take the money and put it into another good use, but I'm hesitant if it's also the best short range weapon [and can be worn as a sidearm to boot] - what would be the best alternatives if you decline the human-sonic path?

Early, you can just tail UFOs with your transport until they land, like good old times. But there are some hunter-killer UFOs that pretend being docile... Ravens\Thunderstorms (with Heavy Stingrays) are first adult interceptors, and should be used in squads of 2-3. Migs\Interceptors can be ignored.

Is the reason for using multiple interceptors at the same time to protect against hunter-killers (are some special missiles or weapons needed for this? *), to produce enough damage output (can you take down even smaller ones with just one) or something else? At least in the early game, both raven and thunderstorm incur about 1M monthly rent so I suppose you need to be careful how many you deploy until your economy has improved (as well as not having enough alloys to produce before taking down a couple of alien ships anyway).

*) For example, in TWoTS superhuman there is only one early-midgame weapon (out of a dozen) where the projectiles travel quick enough to kill a hunter-killer before it destroys you (and you need at least two of these at all times to stand a chance), and that one is almost useless otherwise. But in this mod at least thunderstorms are likely faster than the alien ships so the choice of weaponry might not necessarily be such an issue.
Title: Re: The OpenXcom Files: Tips and Tricks!
Post by: Stone Lake on May 19, 2023, 12:10:43 pm
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I'd be tempted to take the money and put it into another good use, but I'm hesitant if it's also the best short range weapon [and can be worn as a sidearm to boot] - what would be the best alternatives if you decline the human-sonic path?
Well, sonics require much research time so are not without tradeoffs. For underwater alternative, you'd have alien sonics. Sonic shotty needs alien sonics to be researched. For best short range weapon it has to compete with melee, so that's what I'd go for as land alternative. Also throwing axes - big, quick burst of damage at moderate distance. Although it consumes a lot of inventory space, and needs some stats to use.
If you're against enemy with paper-thin armor like sectoids, you can use smart shotty that is 1x2 in size, and double shot has good chance to one-double-shot them. But that's about all it's good for. Plasma scatter is also 1x2, but comes way later.

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Is the reason for using multiple interceptors at the same time to protect against hunter-killers (are some special missiles or weapons needed for this? *), to produce enough damage output (can you take down even smaller ones with just one) or something else? At least in the early game, both raven and thunderstorm incur about 1M monthly rent so I suppose you need to be careful how many you deploy until your economy has improved (as well as not having enough alloys to produce before taking down a couple of alien ships anyway).
All of the above. You usually get to Ravens/Thunderstorms at 99. At 99, UFOs/hybrid embassies quickly disperse any money problems forever, due to loot selling for so much more.

It makes sense to convoy your transport with interceptors. It's not that uncommon to fly by undetected manor/embassy, guards of which will fry your transport. Also, alien hunter-killers can accidentally appear near your transport on the way, and goodbye.

Thunderstorms are fast and can stay out of range for most UFOs. Buyable missiles from them don't have much total damage yield. Maybe manufacturable missiles are better, but they require more logistics and clickety-clack. Ravens are a bit slower, and way more fragile, thus require better pilots. However, their cannons can produce a lot of damage yield, and require even less micromanagement. And gauss cannons are just deadly.

There are some people that skip Ravens altogether, and some skip Thunderstorms. Both are not very good against HKs in singles, but I haven't compared that in depth. I don't think there's special weapons against HKs, you roll with what you have. Also, past promo 3 you can get unique Starfighter, which is fairly good against most UFOs.

Some of the hunter-killers can only be reliably destroyed in packs of top interceptors. Having multiple available interceptors is a must for more global cover/reduce possible downtime if some of them gets destroyed, so why not also fight in packs? Also, packs grant more EXP for pilots if they're not capped, as each pilot that fired a shot in dogfight has a chance to earn ACC/REA/BRA. But again, you may need best pilots with 100+ REA against some particularly aggressive UFOs.