OpenXcom Forum
Modding => OpenXcom Extended => OXCE Support => Topic started by: Thermite on April 03, 2020, 01:24:04 am
-
Basically, as I said here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8045.msg125186.html#msg125186 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8045.msg125186.html#msg125186)
It would be nifty if there was a way to insert small symbols on weapon ufopaedia entries showing to which group a certain item is associated to. Let's say we have weapons that can't work above water, there would then be a crossed out "island" on the bottom of the ufopaedia entry. If it worked underwater there would be a diving suit helmet. If it could go to spacer, there would be a planet and so on. I don't know which one is better though, having all the "badges", so to speak, shown and the ones the item isn't a part of crossed out, or if we only show the ones which the item is a part of.
-
There's already only tiny space (approx. 180x40 pixels) left for description... should I decrease it even more?
-
There's already only tiny space (approx. 180x40 pixels) left for description... should I decrease it even more?
Maybe beside the weight or on the bottom of the weapon's picture?
-
I don't think you realize just how few pixels are there - icons that small (less than 10x10, probably more like 5x5) would be really hard to make convey the idea of multiple item filters.
-
I don't think you realize just how few pixels are there - icons that small (less than 10x10, probably more like 5x5) would be really hard to make convey the idea of multiple item filters.
Fudge...
How about below the ammo types or while hovering somewhere?
It's just that it would help with recognizing the features of a weapon without having to look through the info tab.
-
There are no hovering UI items in OXCE as a class. However, I was wondering, for example, in the form of a global option (to keep the original purity of the gaming experience), could this be an acceptable solution for developers? It could definitely make some elements more informative. I worked a bit with UI in OXCE, but I used the existing window classes, so I'm roughly aware of the scope of the work. It would be interesting to try to work on that, I like to create a friendly UX :)
Maybe not hovering, but clicking on a specific UI element could produce a small window next to the mouse position to show additional info. For example, clicking on the power number could reveal properties for damage alter. That is super important things to know, but they are often hidden deep inside stats for nerds, and you need to make several clicks to find it.
-
Just a quick reply.
New fancy GUI elements like hover tooltips or something are acceptable for me in general, if implemented nicely.
Using them is a bit problematic, because Android/iPhone/Touch users won't be able to use them... so they could be used only for non-critical cosmetic stuff.
But it's worth a try...
-
Just a quick reply.
New fancy GUI elements like hover tooltips or something are acceptable for me in general, if implemented nicely.
Using them is a bit problematic, because Android/iPhone/Touch users won't be able to use them... so they could be used only for non-critical cosmetic stuff.
But it's worth a try...
Glad to hear that my suggestion is being considered for improvements on the UI. I know XCom is quite an old game and, since then, we had many improvements on user interaction technology and research. I think some modifications could be quite helpful.
About mobile users: maybe make so that, when a position on the screen is tapped, the user's cursor is also moved, not only a click event is generated?
-
Isn't the standard mobile UI approach to generate a tooltip to tap and hold? The player would have to know where to do that though for a tooltip vs another effect.
-
I think if we talk about pop-ups, we should just talk about additional information, which is easier to get. At the very least - for information that is absolutely no other way to display to the player. For example, I really like the idea of showing the values of the damageAlter section in a small window that pops up by clicking on the power value in ufopedia. For example, you can put * next to the number of the power value to show the player that there is something behind it. Sometimes weapons in the mod are made in such a way that the damageAlter section fundamentally affects the final damage, and the value of power compared to this becomes even less important information. In addition, I'd also display a method for calculating damage and armor penetration and armor efficiency if they differ from the default values. From my experience in XCF, these parameters dramatically change the effectiveness of a weapon, and to find out that they are not set by default, you need to view all types of ammunition for a weapon via INFO. Doing it for all types of weapons to see if it's not a fun activity for me. As far as I can see, many players have no idea about these properties at all, as their value for the game is not obvious to them (it is not vanilla and as far as I know there are no full descriptions to all of them). That's why they don't understand why guns are so different, although it doesn't come from the value of power alone.
-
My opinion is that people want too much information in general :) But damageAlter is too important to ignore, this info must be communicated to the player. So I guess a small popup window would be good.
-
But damageAlter is too important to ignore, this info must be communicated to the player
There are 2 damageAlters... ranged and melee... and contain 36 attributes each.
That's 72 attributes to show in worst case... good luck putting that into a tooltip :)
-
If the modder puts too long a description of ufopedia article, it will be cut, and it is fine to everyone for years. Probably we can add a scroll to a tooltip, and I saw good realizations of such UI elements. But come on. I think it's insane for a real mod that people play to use more than 10, well 15 additional properties. That could fit. Ok, maybe some handling with text resize. Let's be realistic. I can, for example, using Memmaker python tools or whatever other game designer tools to check how many entities could be in the mods like piratez or xcf, or twots, add, say, 5 to that value and it would be fine to me. I think such a tooltip can fit real people's needs. If it exceeded that reasonable value, well, dear modder, your weapon is lame, sorry, your player would have to go to the info to read full of its properties.
UPD:
I think in case we will have both meleeAlter and damageAlter on same item extremely rare and cutting it with asking the player to look for more details in INFO is fine. Also, a lot of properties have attached bool to define random. so, it would be good to merge such properties in one line in the tooltip. For example, `toHealth: 0.55` and `randomHealth: true` could be shown "To Health: 0.55; Random.", without showing "; Random" if `randomHealth: false`. So in the end entities count could be much less.
-
I'm not asking for a scrollbar on a tooltip, that's pervert.
Just saying that we have 320x200 pixels; and modders like to overdo everything...
meleeAlter may be rare in XCF, but it's not rare in Piratez for example.
OXCE is not made for XCF, it's made for everybody.
And if something looks ugly, I prefer not taking it at all over letting it be ugly.
Right now, we have vanilla pedia and we have stats for nerds... I understand you want to make something inbetween.
I wish you good luck (honestly!), but I reserve the right to not merge it if I don't like it. That's all.
-
I'm not asking for a scrollbar on a tooltip, that's pervert.
Why would it be perversion though?
-
Why would it be perversion though?
Have you seen a tooltip with a scrollbar in any game or application? I can't think of any. It probably exists, but maybe in 1 app out of 10000.
And regardless of that, the point in this specific case is to display information that doesn't fit on screen... if it doesn't fit on tooltip either, then it's not any better. Then we can just add a scrollbar on the main article without needing a tooltip.
-
I'm not asking for a scrollbar on a tooltip, that's pervert.
Just saying that we have 320x200 pixels; and modders like to overdo everything...
meleeAlter may be rare in XCF, but it's not rare in Piratez for example.
OXCE is not made for XCF, it's made for everybody.
And if something looks ugly, I prefer not taking it at all over letting it be ugly.
Right now, we have vanilla pedia and we have stats for nerds... I understand you want to make something inbetween.
I wish you good luck (honestly!), but I reserve the right to not merge it if I don't like it. That's all.
I completely agree with you on all points. Of course, when it comes to developing OXCE, I don't just think about XCF, but try to take into account all the mods. In a recent commit, I deliberately set the defaults for the new properties to be rather uncomfortable for XCF, but that way they won't affect any mods that already use related mechanics.
Yesterday I tried to do a little digging in the code on these tooltips, but nothing is productive yet - I am too inexperienced. Of course, if I take this seriously, I will inform about the details of the implementation, in order to avoid doing things that are not suitable for OXCE, there is no profit for me in this.
If I get away from the topic of pop-up tooltips a bit and consider my excitement about the hidden section of damageAlter for the player. I'd like to suggest adding an * sign after the value of power to the ufopedia item article if the rules describe the damageAlter or meleeAlter section for that item whose power value.
-
Have you seen a tooltip with a scrollbar in any game or application? I can't think of any. It probably exists, but maybe in 1 app out of 10000.
And regardless of that, the point in this specific case is to display information that doesn't fit on screen... if it doesn't fit on tooltip either, then it's not any better. Then we can just add a scrollbar on the main article without needing a tooltip.
OH!
thought you were talking about the description, not the tooltip.
Sorry!
I think adding an automatic scrollbar (i.e.: the scrollbar truncates and is generated automatically) or a paging system for ufopaedia entries would be good. Specially since XCF does have multiple pages for the same weapon just because the ammo descriptions didn't fit the first article.