OpenXcom Forum

Modding => OpenXcom Extended => Topic started by: Meridian on February 03, 2019, 12:07:50 pm

Title: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 03, 2019, 12:07:50 pm
I plan to remove options that are not used, or very rarely used... i.e. people leave them unchanged, or always change them to the same value.

Here's my proposal.
Feedback welcome.
To be removed:
---------------
Martial training at any time - use YES
Display if weapon is two-handed - use YES
Show 2-handed indicator in inventory - use YES
Display map borders on the Minimap - use YES
Wounded fight if base attacked - use NO
Extra bleeding indicator - use YES
High Stun indicator - use YES
Show item weight in inventory - use YES
Remove wounded soldiers from training - use NO
Maximized Night Display - use NO
No-Spoilers Tech Tree Viewer - use NO
Friendly craft escort - use YES
Single-handed weapon unloading - use YES

To be converted into a mod option (instead of user option):
---------------
Statistical Bullet Saving - default NO

To keep (as user option):
---------------
Select Night Vision color - default 8
Automatic Night Vision - default NO
Auto-Sell Manager - default NO
Play Briefing music longer - default NO => change default to YES
UFO landing alert - default NO
Draw enemy radar circles - default YES

EDIT: Here's the final proposal as implemented

Turn off and remove:
---------------
* Less-Spoilers Tech Tree Viewer - use NO

Turn on and remove:
---------------
* Martial training at any time - use YES
* Display if weapon is two-handed - use YES
* Show 2-handed indicator in inventory - use YES
* Extra bleeding indicator - use YES
* High Stun indicator - use YES
* Show item weight in inventory - use YES
* Friendly craft escort - use YES
* Single-handed weapon unloading - use YES

Rework and remove:
---------------
* Maximized Night Display - replace with hybrid night vision = local NV (with max shade 4) + global "maximized" NV (with max shade 8 )
* Automatic Night Vision - if craft interior is too dark (tile shade 12-15); or outside map is too dark (global shade 12-15) and all units have personal light <= 5... turn on NV
* Remove wounded soldiers from training - remove them, but remember if they want to return to training after recovery (automatically)
* Display map borders on the Minimap - turn on by pressing ALT

Convert into a mod option (instead of user option):
---------------
* Statistical Bullet Saving - default NO
* Draw enemy radar circles - change to 0 (never draw), 1 (draw if hyperdetected), 2 (always draw) => default 1

Code: [Select]
statisticalBulletConservation: false
drawEnemyRadarCircles: 1

Hidden (in options.cfg), modder can fix (it's not possible to convert this into a mod option, that's why it unfortunately needs to stay here):
---------------
* Start-Up Text Mode - default 0 # 0 = vanilla, 1 = remove dos4gw and soundblaster text, 2 = remove all text

Keep (as user option on the GUI):
---------------
* UFO landing alert - default NO
* Wounded fight if base attacked (health >= x%) - default 100%
* Play Briefing music longer - default NO
* Night Vision color - default 8
* Auto-Sell Manager - default NO

Code: [Select]
fixedUserOptions:
  oxceAutoSell: false
  oxceNightVisionColor: 8
  oxcePlayBriefingMusicDuringEquipment: false
  oxceStartUpTextMode: 0
  oxceUfoLandingAlert: false
  oxceWoundedDefendBaseIf: 100
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2019, 01:04:41 pm
Hi Meridian,
I am am not against decreasing the number of options. Also, I generally agree with your choice. Here are some doubts:

Display map borders on the Minimap - use YES: I don't care, but I know iot's a big deal for some people.
No-Spoilers Tech Tree Viewer - use NO: The TTV is in itself a very controversial tool. I believe we should at least have the choice about how exactly we want to use it. I think being able to see direct results of an open research is not the same as seeing the entire tree. (But of course you can say "then don't use the TTV" and I don't have a good retort to this...)
Auto-Sell Manager - default NO: I can't really see the benefit of turning it off... IMO it should be enabled for everyone.

No other remarks.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Dioxine on February 03, 2019, 01:13:53 pm
Wounded fight if base attacked: interesting option, why would you want to remove it?
Show handedness, weight etc: maybe I want to use them all, but that informational clutter might get too much?
Remove wounded soldiers from training: I switch this on and off for convenience, definitely disagreed.
No spoilers tech tree viewer: why? I only keep it disabled for now because debugging.
Friendly craft escort: definitely can imagine some mods not wanting this to be on.

Statistical bullet saving: no idea why change it from user to mod.

What I don't get is: why having many options is bad? And why should we decide for "the people"? Same could be argued about many of the vanilla OXC options, really... Like alt movement methods.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 03, 2019, 01:32:15 pm
Auto-Sell Manager - default NO: I can't really see the benefit of turning it off... IMO it should be enabled for everyone.

I hate this option, it gives me proposals I really don't want... sometimes I want to sell all the looted heavy plasmas and sometimes not... and I don't want the game to tell me what I want to do when.

I tried the option several times, and always came to conclusion I want it turned off.

What I don't get is: why having many options is bad?

Because they clutter and confuse.
If each feature similar to those mentioned above would have a user option to turn it on/off, we would need thousands of user options.

I want to remove those, which don't deserve to be an option, because they appeal to a small minority only.

Many of these options were also originally added as "proving grounds", with the explicit intention of removing them later after finding out if the feature is good/bad, used/not used, etc. That time is now.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Stoddard on February 03, 2019, 03:40:10 pm
FWIW I like the "Wounded fight" option.

I sometimes have about 4 crew and a ton of dogs and reapers on bases in the boondocks, and of those usually 1 to 3 are wounded because having downed a small enemy they botched the wreck duty.  Not having them around to defend the base would be uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: robin on February 03, 2019, 09:00:20 pm
Are the bleeding/stun indicator options about the little icons (example: blood drop) next to the affected units? If so I'd like them to be optional, I like my battelscape "clean".
Also, dunno how the No-spoiler tech-tree works but: when you are researching unknown alien stuff I think it makes sense you don't exactly know what you get from a research.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 03, 2019, 09:09:43 pm
Are the bleeding/stun indicator options about the little icons (example: blood drop) next to the affected units? If so I'd like them to be optional, I like my battelscape "clean".

No, it's the blue and purple boxes with numbers on the right-hand side of the UI.
Similar to the red/green boxes for visible aliens.

Also, dunno how the No-spoiler tech-tree works but: when you are researching unknown alien stuff I think it makes sense you don't exactly know what you get from a research.

Even with no spoilers on, this info you still get.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: robin on February 03, 2019, 09:14:32 pm
No, it's the blue and purple boxes with numbers on the right-hand side of the UI.
Similar to the red/green boxes for visible aliens.
Oh I see. I'm fine with those.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 03, 2019, 10:15:27 pm
I use the following settings:

Wounded fight if base attacked - use YES
Remove wounded soldiers from training - use YES
Maximized Night Display - use YES
UFO landing alert - use YES

These options are best not to remove from the menu. Let it remain as it is.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Lord_Kane on February 03, 2019, 10:33:07 pm
I use the following settings:

Wounded fight if base attacked - use YES
Remove wounded soldiers from training - use YES
Maximized Night Display - use YES
UFO landing alert - use YES

These options are best not to remove from the menu. Let it remain as it is.

I agree with Ethereal there.
could you also consider keeping friendly craft escort as a user option?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 03, 2019, 11:00:46 pm
could you also consider keeping friendly craft escort as a user option?

In what scenario does it make sense to turn friendly craft escort off?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Lord_Kane on February 03, 2019, 11:33:28 pm
In what scenario does it make sense to turn friendly craft escort off?

hmmmm valid point now that I think about it, but most mods I play I don't use HK's (heck my mod doesnt even have them) so I guess removing it makes more sense then not.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: mumble on February 05, 2019, 12:44:17 pm
I think wounded fight is worth keeping, but might I add a small bit of input? Ever since the addition of system shock, this option has proven to be an extreme liability, killing off people who endure a raid due to being up at 3hp and having a stroke.

I'd still recommend keeping it with a mod, with a stipulation. Keep any units under 40% hp out of combat. I think anyone under that isn't going to be very useful anyways, and this prevents unnecessary casualties using this. I know the option has saved me in the past, but the 3 hp system shock deaths are a little bogus.

I'm sorry to bring that up in addition to what you have to work on, but while the subject is at hand, it felt obligatory to bring up its issue. Because it's indeed EXTREMELY useful, but the fact it doesn't discriminate between a unit with a broken hand, and a unit on life support, makes using it a double edge sword.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 05, 2019, 12:56:28 pm
And that's exactly why I want to remove it...

If I set the limit to 40%, vanilla players will argue that they don't have any shock mechanics and want all soldiers to fight. If I don't set the limit, you'll have the issues you describe. And in both cases, the description of the option would be counter-intuitive or misleading.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 05, 2019, 09:57:52 pm
If I'm not misunderstood, whether the people do not understand... This, as far as I understand it is about the options menu, from which the items will be removed. However, the functions themselves will remain and they can be enabled/disabled in options.cfg.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 05, 2019, 10:02:03 pm
If I'm not misunderstood, whether the people do not understand... This, as far as I understand it is about the options menu, from which the items will be removed. However, the functions themselves will remain and they can be enabled/disabled in options.cfg.

No, they will disappear from options.cfg too.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 05, 2019, 10:08:11 pm
No, they will disappear from options.cfg too.

And if they are fixed in the "vars.ru"?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 05, 2019, 10:17:59 pm
And if they are fixed in the "vars.rul"?

They disappear completely, as if they never existed.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 05, 2019, 10:27:45 pm
They disappear completely, as if they never existed.

Well, then I am totally against such changes. Deleting content is a dead end.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 05, 2019, 10:37:02 pm
I'm (mostly) not deleting content, I'm deleting options!

You will for example not be able to turn off a 2-handed indicator... it will be always turned on (i.e. not removed) without option to turn it off.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: clownagent on February 06, 2019, 10:13:02 am
I think it is a very good idea to declutter the options menu and I agree with nearly all suggestions in the first post.

However I think the "wounded fight during base attack" should not be removed but be an option in the mod-file.


By the way:
the "instant grenades" option is also somehow obsolete and could be removed, because this behavior can be defined in the mod-file for each item (in OpenXcom Extended).

Edit: I think the auto-sell manager can also go.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 06, 2019, 11:28:02 am
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Here's the updated proposal.

Turn off and remove:
---------------
Maximized Night Display - use NO
Less-Spoilers Tech Tree Viewer - use NO

Turn on and remove:
---------------
Martial training at any time - use YES
Display if weapon is two-handed - use YES
Show 2-handed indicator in inventory - use YES
Extra bleeding indicator - use YES
High Stun indicator - use YES
Show item weight in inventory - use YES
Friendly craft escort - use YES
Single-handed weapon unloading - use YES

Rework and remove:
---------------
Automatic Night Vision - if xcom units generate enough light that the screen is not pure black, don't do anything... if "pure black", turn NV on automatically
Remove wounded soldiers from training - remove them, but remember if they want to return to training after recovery (automatically)
Display map borders on the Minimap - turned off by default, turn on by pressing ALT

Convert into a mod option (instead of user option):
---------------
Statistical Bullet Saving - default NO
Draw enemy radar circles - change to 0 (never draw), 1 (draw if hyperdetected), 2 (always draw) => default 1

Hidden (in options.cfg), modder can fix (it's not possible to convert this into a mod option, that's why it unfortunately needs to stay here):
---------------
Start-Up Text Mode - default 0 # 0 = vanilla, 1 = remove dos4gw and soundblaster text, 2 = remove all text

Keep (as user option on the GUI):
---------------
UFO landing alert - default NO
Wounded fight if base attacked - default NO
Play Briefing music longer - default NO
Select Night Vision color - default 8
Auto-Sell Manager - default NO
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 06, 2019, 05:59:10 pm
Remove wounded soldiers from training - remove them, but remember if they want to return to training after recovery (automatically)

By the way, a wounded soldier, in this function, can be removed with only a normal training. Training in the psionic laboratory is saved. It would be necessary to removed psionic training too, with wounded.

Play Briefing music longer - default NO

Default  YES please.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 06, 2019, 06:37:04 pm
By the way, a wounded soldier, in this function, can be removed with only a normal training. Training in the psionic laboratory is saved. It would be necessary to removed psionic training too, with wounded.

The option intentionally only removes from martial training.
I don't want to interrupt a whole month of psi training, just because someone is wounded for 1-2 days.
Also it would not be vanilla compatible.

Default  YES please.

Default is the vanilla setting, which is NO.
Changing it takes you one click.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Lord_Kane on February 06, 2019, 07:01:24 pm
I use maximized night display, but you know what, I still like the new options proposal so lets go with it  8)
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 06, 2019, 08:25:34 pm
What I can not understand, "Maximized Night Display" is "fullNightVision"? I turned this option ON and OFF - no difference was found. Maybe because it is disabled "Automatic Night Vision" and night Vision activate the key"space"?

The option intentionally only removes from martial training.
I don't want to interrupt a whole month of psi training, just because someone is wounded for 1-2 days.
Also it would not be vanilla compatible.

Doesn't" Martial training at any time " fix that?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: yergnoor on February 06, 2019, 09:19:08 pm
Display map borders on the Minimap - turned off by default, turn on by pressing ALT
For most OXCE for Android users, this feature will be lost. Few will want to search and install a keyboard that can be opened in the game.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 06, 2019, 10:06:33 pm
What I can not understand, "Maximized Night Display" is "fullNightVision"? I turned this option ON and OFF - no difference was found. Maybe because it is disabled "Automatic Night Vision" and night Vision activate the key"space"?

Good, then you won't be missing it.

Doesn't" Martial training at any time " fix that?

No, "martial training any time" only applies to martial training. The psi training can be affected by "psionic training at any time" option.

For most OXCE for Android users, this feature will be lost. Few will want to search and install a keyboard that can be opened in the game.

The modders wanted to turn this option off completely anyway as "catastrophically immersion breaking"... by removing the possibility to turn it off, I'm saving it at least for PC users.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Lord_Kane on February 06, 2019, 10:14:37 pm
What I can not understand, "Maximized Night Display" is "fullNightVision"? I turned this option ON and OFF - no difference was found. Maybe because it is disabled "Automatic Night Vision" and night Vision activate the key"space"?


Meh, whatever, lets just get these new refactored options in. I have it on but then again I dont know nor care anymore if does anything I just want this in and done 8)

also I love OXCE so flexible and so...nice.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: robin on February 06, 2019, 10:35:30 pm
Automatic Night Vision - if xcom units generate enough light that the screen is not pure black, don't do anything... if "pure black", turn NV on automatically
What happens when you mind control an alien? Do mind controlled aliens get default unit light (I honestly don't remember) and so auto-NV is prevented?
I might sound rude but to simplify my point: I don't like night vision and I don't want to use it ever; if this rework can accidentally activate NV, then I'd prefer it to be optional.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 06, 2019, 11:50:23 pm
What happens when you mind control an alien? Do mind controlled aliens get default unit light (I honestly don't remember) and so auto-NV is prevented?
I might sound rude but to simplify my point: I don't like night vision and I don't want to use it ever; if this rework can accidentally activate NV, then I'd prefer it to be optional.

This check would be done only once... at the beginning of the mission (before turn 1). If at least one of your soldiers generates at least some light, NV will not activate.
For example, in normal vanilla game, it would never activate.

Your point is definitely not rude, I don't like night vision either... if you ever have any problems with it... I will be the first to implement a hard switch off for you.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: robin on February 07, 2019, 12:06:32 am
This check would be done only once... at the beginning of the mission (before turn 1). If at least one of your soldiers generates at least some light, NV will not activate.
For example, in normal vanilla game, it would never activate.

Your point is definitely not rude, I don't like night vision either... if you ever have any problems with it... I will be the first to implement a hard switch off for you.
I see.
What if someone is making a Cthulhu mod set in 1910, using 0 unit light to force the player to equip (occupying one hand) cumbersome lanterns/torches? Would night vision turn on since unit light is 0? In that kind of setting NV would be out of place. A fantasy setting could have the same issue I guess.
Maybe I'm missing something because I don't use NV: is it always available or do I have to define its availability in the armor definition?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 07, 2019, 12:15:21 am
I see.
What if someone is making a Cthulhu mod set in 1910, using 0 unit light to force the player to equip (occupying one hand) cumbersome lanterns/torches? Would night vision turn on since unit light is 0? In that kind of setting NV would be out of place. A fantasy setting could have the same issue I guess.
Maybe I'm missing something because I don't use NV: is it always available or do I have to define its availability in the armor definition?

1/ No worries, I will check the light level of tiles where soldiers spawn too... if there is any external light, NV won't be triggered.
As I said, only if you don't see fucking anything when the battle starts and you think the game crashed... then NV will activate to tell you that the game didn't actually crash.

2/ Yes, NV is always available, there is nothing to define on the armor.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: robin on February 07, 2019, 12:24:09 am
Alright got it.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 07, 2019, 12:35:16 am
I don't really like night vision either, but it's like democracy: nobody has ever came up with anything better.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 07, 2019, 12:39:04 am
IMO personal light is at least equally good, arguably much better.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Stoddard on February 07, 2019, 01:38:32 am
IIRC NV was done because either you had personal lights on and got shot up from darkness, or had them off and could not see a damn thing.

Anything changed in this respect?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 07, 2019, 03:42:01 am
1/ No worries, I will check the light level of tiles where soldiers spawn too... if there is any external light, NV won't be triggered.
As I said, only if you don't see fucking anything when the battle starts and you think the game crashed... then NV will activate to tell you that the game didn't actually crash.

2/ Yes, NV is always available, there is nothing to define on the armor.

Please leave this function alone. Personally, even in this form, do not need automatic night vision.

But if you really want to redo this function so much, then you do not need to check for "personal Light" at all. It is better to make a test for the equality of indicators "visibilityAtDay" and "visibilityAtDark", which determines the presence of night vision systems in the armor.
And the darkness only creates additional complexity. Not to mention the presence of incendiary ammunition, which in the original nothing but lighting areas are not suitable. And the Electro-flare in the game has not been canceled. Must be a complete idiot to go without them on a night mission with no means of night vision.

IMO personal light is at least equally good, arguably much better.

No better. In the "personal Light", not working "camouflageAtDark" and all opponents use the "visibilityAtDay" for detection targets with a personal light.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Alex_D on February 07, 2019, 05:45:56 am
My 2 cents:

Turn off and remove:
Maximized Night Display - use NO
I agree with all of the (updated) proposed options except the above one. I, for one, use this option. I have used it since I knew it existed. It saves me a lot from switching map and iso views every few seconds.

Plus, if there is a chance to add one small item to the list (not an option but related to auto-sell), once the loot is displayed for sale after a battle, can we have a "transfer to another base" button always active, regardless of the available storage room at the base (as opposite to appear only if the storage limits are enforced) ?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: mumble on February 07, 2019, 09:11:01 am
I feel a little torn about the idea of losing wounded base defense. It was incredibly essential for piratez, otherwise I'd have no gals often, and despite the loses from system shock, it was more doable, since otherwise I needed to skip missions just to have guards "just in case".

I also understand your qualms about making it a percentage cut off, but this not only prevents unnecessary deaths, but seems more realistic. I FIGURE In bad enough states, people would just remain bed ridden as shooting starts.

I know its a bit much to suggest the change in addition to cleaning, but it feels wrong removing a feature that wasn't implemented ideally to begin with.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 07, 2019, 10:52:12 am
IIRC NV was done because either you had personal lights on and got shot up from darkness, or had them off and could not see a damn thing.

Anything changed in this respect?

No, nothing changed. That's exactly it.

But if you really want to redo this function so much, then you do not need to check for "personal Light" at all. It is better to make a test for the equality of indicators "visibilityAtDay" and "visibilityAtDark", which determines the presence of night vision systems in the armor.
And the darkness only creates additional complexity. Not to mention the presence of incendiary ammunition, which in the original nothing but lighting areas are not suitable. And the Electro-flare in the game has not been canceled. Must be a complete idiot to go without them on a night mission with no means of night vision.

Night vision is a pure visual cosmetic feature. It affects ONLY the human player sitting in front of the computer.
It DOES NOT affect any game mechanics, the xcom units and aliens are completely unaware of night vision.
It DOES NOT affect any game calculations, visibility formulas or anything else.
It does not have anything to do with "visibilityAtDay" and "visibilityAtDark"... absolutely nothing... they are affected by "personalLight", not by night vision.

No better. In the "personal Light", not working "camouflageAtDark" and all opponents use the "visibilityAtDay" for detection targets with a personal light.

Xcom(1994)... is a game using personal light... and a game voted several times as "the best game of all times".
Do I need to say more?

I feel a little torn about the idea of losing wounded base defense.

See updated proposal several posts above. The option stays.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 07, 2019, 01:02:47 pm
Xcom(1994)... is a game using personal light... and a game voted several times as "the best game of all times".
Do I need to say more?

In the original, it turns out, and automatic night vision is not needed, as all units of the player generate light. Yes, and the aliens see by night and by day alike.

In modifications, the situation is different. There were opponents who saw worse at night than during the day, night camouflage and so on. This compels disable the generation of light in player units, because:

Quote
Yes, if you generate light the "*Day" attributes apply.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.msg102014.html#msg102014

I just don't want to have night vision automatically activated when the squad doesn't have night vision systems.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 07, 2019, 04:48:43 pm
I don't know what else to say.

visibilityAtDark and night vision are two completely unrelated things in OXCE... without understanding this, I don't think we can have a productive discussion.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 07, 2019, 06:39:34 pm
Usually the soldiers of the player "visibilityAtDay" greater than "visibilityAtDark". Equality of indicators "visibilityAtDay" and "visibilityAtDark" in the settings of the armor, it is a night vision system. And I would like to see units with night vision activate night vision automatically, and units without night vision - no.

I just thought that since you're working on this feature, it might be possible to improve it.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 07, 2019, 06:44:12 pm
If visibilityAtDark = 10 and visibilityAtDay = 20 and you turn on night vision, you will still only see 10 tiles. Night vision does not change your vision to 20.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Stoddard on February 07, 2019, 07:12:06 pm
Usually the soldiers of the player "visibilityAtDay" greater than "visibilityAtDark". Equality of indicators "visibilityAtDay" and "visibilityAtDark" in the settings of the armor, it is a night vision system.

it is not. Equality of these two settings means exactly nothing.

Quote
And I would like to see units with night vision activate night vision automatically, and units without night vision - no.

There is no "activation" or any state to this. They see this far at day and that far at night. Period.


You are misunderstanding. Night vision as discussed here is the option to show the player the terrain at night.

It has zero, nothing, nada, nilch to do with what there is in armor settings.

Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 07, 2019, 07:30:38 pm
If visibilityAtDark = 10 and visibilityAtDay = 20 and you turn on night vision, you will still only see 10 tiles. Night vision does not change your vision to 20.

That's what I'm saying. In the scenario described by you, Night Vision should not be activated. The highlight itself must be available when visibilityAtDark = visibilityAtDay.

So I propose to make automatic activation of Night vision mode focusing not on "generate enough light", but on the equality of visibility indicators.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 07, 2019, 07:43:47 pm
That's what I'm saying. In the scenario described by you, Night Vision should not be activated.

That's totally against what night vision does now. If it wasn't activated, the player would not see anything... which is why night vision was implemented in the first place.

The highlight itself must be available when visibilityAtDark = visibilityAtDay.

Why equal? Why couldn't a modder want vision during dark = 10, vision during dark with NV gear = 15 and vision during day = 20?
I don't see a reason to hardcode something like that.
Not to mention this is a feature request unrelated to this thread and belongs in its own thread.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 07, 2019, 07:51:41 pm
Okay, fine. Only one thing I ask-do not remove "Automatic Night Vision" from the options menu.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: wolfreal on February 08, 2019, 02:43:42 am
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Here's the updated proposal.

Turn off and remove:
---------------
Maximized Night Display - use NO
Less-Spoilers Tech Tree Viewer - use NO

Turn on and remove:
---------------
Martial training at any time - use YES
Display if weapon is two-handed - use YES
Show 2-handed indicator in inventory - use YES
Extra bleeding indicator - use YES
High Stun indicator - use YES
Show item weight in inventory - use YES
Friendly craft escort - use YES
Single-handed weapon unloading - use YES

Rework and remove:
---------------
Automatic Night Vision - if xcom units generate enough light that the screen is not pure black, don't do anything... if "pure black", turn NV on automatically
Remove wounded soldiers from training - remove them, but remember if they want to return to training after recovery (automatically)
Display map borders on the Minimap - turned off by default, turn on by pressing ALT

Convert into a mod option (instead of user option):
---------------
Statistical Bullet Saving - default NO
Draw enemy radar circles - change to 0 (never draw), 1 (draw if hyperdetected), 2 (always draw) => default 1

Hidden (in options.cfg), modder can fix (it's not possible to convert this into a mod option, that's why it unfortunately needs to stay here):
---------------
Start-Up Text Mode - default 0 # 0 = vanilla, 1 = remove dos4gw and soundblaster text, 2 = remove all text

Keep (as user option on the GUI):
---------------
UFO landing alert - default NO
Wounded fight if base attacked - default NO
Play Briefing music longer - default NO
Select Night Vision color - default 8
Auto-Sell Manager - default NO

Well. My humble 2 cents.

I do get the difference and switch normally between maximized Night vision and not maximized. And I do not use automatic NV, I always turn it on and off with the space key (Not toggling, turning it on and off). But I will accept the decisions made by all.

I like a lot the Remove wounded soldiers rework.

I do use map borders.... Ok for me if they appears with alt.

I will miss statistical bullet saving, but as a mod options seems like the correct decision.

I love auto sell manager.

I would like a "Wounded fight if they are above %" option. But is up to the developers (Yankes and Meridia in this case. I do not know if those changes are going to be translated to OXC)
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2019, 11:02:54 am
IMO personal light is at least equally good, arguably much better.

Excuse me, why would I advertise my presence to every sniper on the map, especially if they're not returning the favour?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 08, 2019, 11:09:30 am
Excuse me, why would I advertise my presence to every sniper on the map, especially if they're not returning the favour?

I'm not talking about real world, I'm talking about in-game experience.

What makes sense in real world can be completely stupid in-game; and vice versa. We're designing a game here, not a US military battle simulator.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2019, 11:12:23 am
This has absolutely no relation to real world, it's about my x00dz getting sniped by hidden d00dz because they are walking Christmas trees.
What else is there to explain?
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 08, 2019, 11:18:43 am
So let me return to the beginning and quote you again.

I don't really like night vision either, but it's like democracy: nobody has ever came up with anything better.

I politely disagree with statement that nobody came up with anything better... I say that Julian Gollop came up with "something better" in xcom1994... the "walking christmas tree" mechanic works as intended there and largely contributes to the game being as amazing as it is.
Title: Re: Time to clean up user options
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2019, 11:40:27 am
(I think we're off topic, so feel free to move these posts.)

Yes, the vanilla system works for vanilla, which has a very specific setting and a very specific concept of combat. It only works with these assumptions that your soldiers are clueless and the enemy has superior night vision. It is a very narrow and very specific design, which doesn't really allow any scenarios with a different premise.
The moment you started adding the options to modify night vision and lighting, like visibilityAtDark, these design assumptions stopped being relevant. The entire point of these OXCE additions were to go beyond Gollop's assumptions, because without revising those assumptions, you can't really go beyond the original concept. For example, you can't have human enemies who are comparable to your units; they must always be superior aliens (or equivalent). The point of these OXCE additions is to allow for other enemy templates, the original concept didn't require them at all; Gollop's mechanics was 100% sufficient.
Just to be clear, I don't think the current system is bad or that it requires any additions. I am happy with it. And I certainly don't think OXCE vision options were a mistake and should be ignored in favour of going back to exclusively shooting Cydonians. :)
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 10, 2019, 09:01:29 pm
Done.
Details below.
Also, all the remaining options have been renamed, so players need to set them to their expectations again... and modders can change their fixed defaults if they so choose.


Turn off and remove:
---------------
* Less-Spoilers Tech Tree Viewer - use NO

Turn on and remove:
---------------
* Martial training at any time - use YES
* Display if weapon is two-handed - use YES
* Show 2-handed indicator in inventory - use YES
* Extra bleeding indicator - use YES
* High Stun indicator - use YES
* Show item weight in inventory - use YES
* Friendly craft escort - use YES
* Single-handed weapon unloading - use YES

Rework and remove:
---------------
* Maximized Night Display - replace with hybrid night vision = local NV (with max shade 4) + global "maximized" NV (with max shade 8 )
* Automatic Night Vision - if craft interior is too dark (tile shade 12-15); or outside map is too dark (global shade 12-15) and all units have personal light <= 5... turn on NV
* Remove wounded soldiers from training - remove them, but remember if they want to return to training after recovery (automatically)
* Display map borders on the Minimap - turn on by pressing ALT

Convert into a mod option (instead of user option):
---------------
* Statistical Bullet Saving - default NO
* Draw enemy radar circles - change to 0 (never draw), 1 (draw if hyperdetected), 2 (always draw) => default 1

Code: [Select]
statisticalBulletConservation: false
drawEnemyRadarCircles: 1

Hidden (in options.cfg), modder can fix (it's not possible to convert this into a mod option, that's why it unfortunately needs to stay here):
---------------
* Start-Up Text Mode - default 0 # 0 = vanilla, 1 = remove dos4gw and soundblaster text, 2 = remove all text

Keep (as user option on the GUI):
---------------
* UFO landing alert - default NO
* Wounded fight if base attacked (health >= x%) - default 100%
* Play Briefing music longer - default NO
* Night Vision color - default 8
* Auto-Sell Manager - default NO

Code: [Select]
fixedUserOptions:
  oxceAutoSell: false
  oxceNightVisionColor: 8
  oxcePlayBriefingMusicDuringEquipment: false
  oxceStartUpTextMode: 0
  oxceUfoLandingAlert: false
  oxceWoundedDefendBaseIf: 100
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: wolfreal on February 11, 2019, 06:46:07 am

Rework and remove:
---------------
* Maximized Night Display - replace with hybrid night vision = local NV (with max shade 4) + global "maximized" NV (with max shade 8 )
* Automatic Night Vision - if craft interior is too dark (tile shade 12-15); or outside map is too dark (global shade 12-15) and all units have personal light <= 5... turn on NV

If I understand well, now the NV for the areas the units have vision, are going to be more lighted than the areas were there is not vision, but all the map going to have some kind of NV, even if you don´t have anyone looking there?. 

Keep (as user option on the GUI):
---------------
* Wounded fight if base attacked (health >= x%) - default 100%

GREAT!!!.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 11, 2019, 11:23:08 am
If I understand well, now the NV for the areas the units have vision, are going to be more lighted than the areas where there is not vision, but all the map going to have some kind of NV, even if you don´t have anyone looking there?. 

And if the area is discovered in the first place.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Ethereal on February 11, 2019, 03:17:22 pm
* Play Briefing music longer - default NO

Well, why did the music prevent you? Leave her alone please.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 11, 2019, 03:36:02 pm
Well, why did the music prevent you? Leave her alone please.

The default was NO before as well... I didn't change anything here!!
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Lord_Kane on February 12, 2019, 03:40:02 pm
I like the reworked options :)
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: mumble on February 13, 2019, 03:21:01 am
Just wanted to give a big thanks to making the change to wounded base defense. That makes it way more viable.  :)
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: wolfreal on February 15, 2019, 07:33:13 pm
Just to say I tested the new NV and is amazing!!!. Thanks!.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: niculinux on February 18, 2019, 11:08:56 am
Sweet! Shall we see these in next openxcom version, say 5.3?
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on February 18, 2019, 11:55:13 am
Sweet! Shall we see these in next openxcom version, say 5.3?

No, let's wait until a later version, say 11.7?
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Riph on March 09, 2019, 07:29:48 am
Hi there. I'm playing J12 and I'm trying to re-engage Statistical Bullet Saving. I was very puzzled to see it disappear, until I saw this thread!

Working from Meridian's post, it appears that I need to add the line
statisticalBulletConservation: true
to my \user\options.cfg
However that doesn't seem to be working, in fact when I launch the game this line gets purged from the file automatically.

Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong, and what I need to do to re-enable the statistical bullet saving behavior?
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: yergnoor on March 09, 2019, 03:33:45 pm
Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong, and what I need to do to re-enable the statistical bullet saving behavior?
As far as I understand
Convert into a mod option (instead of user option):
---------------
* Statistical Bullet Saving - default NO
* Draw enemy radar circles - change to 0 (never draw), 1 (draw if hyperdetected), 2 (always draw) => default 1

Code: [Select]
statisticalBulletConservation: false
drawEnemyRadarCircles: 1
It is said that these opportunities can be set only in the mod itself, and not by editing options.cfg. And these changes will be effective only as long as the corresponding mod is on, and after it is turned off, they will be reset to their default values.
If I'm right, then the string
Code: [Select]
statisticsBulletConservation: true
you need to add either to your own mod, which includes the Statistical Bullet Saving if necessary, or add X-Piratez to the same mod, in one of its rul-files.
But I could be wrong, I did not try to do it myself.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Riph on March 09, 2019, 06:28:37 pm
Thanks for the reply Yergnoor. I'm afraid I'm still foggy though. I've been playing X-Piratez for almost three years now and Statistical Bullet Saving has never been a mod, it's always been a user option. If that's been changed, and it is now strictly a mod, do I need to download it from somewhere?

I'm not completely useless, I've been googling Statistical Bullet Saving to see if it was once a standalone mod that I could download, but the results are mostly conversations about it (as a user option) on this forum.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Meridian on March 09, 2019, 06:33:14 pm
Yes, it is a mod now.
Not a user option anymore.

The mod doesn't exist, nobody wrote it yet.

You can write it yourself, it's literally just one line of code:
1. create a file with any name and with .rul extension in Piratez\Ruleset
2. add
Code: [Select]
statisticalBulletConservation: true to the file
3. save

That's it.
Title: Re: [DONE] Time to clean up user options
Post by: Riph on March 09, 2019, 08:46:08 pm

You can write it yourself, it's literally just one line of code:

I followed your steps and it appears to be working correctly.

Thank you for the clear instructions! You guys are great.