OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Released Mods => XPiratez => Topic started by: Serpentium on June 26, 2018, 05:45:02 pm
-
So, about a day ago, I was pondering over why the Osiron Security is so passive until someone who is not Osiron "spots" for them. Then the idea hit me after reading some of the lore Dioxine created.
Imagine you're a male soldier working for the Academy, you've most likely been brainwashed into obedience by local Espers and forced to watch Holovids of old-world training exercises, never really getting into as many real combat situations like some of the other factions. You're at the beck and call of a parasitic matriarchal faction who demands total subservience and likely "experiments" on you whenever you do something they find unsatisfactory. It's no wonder why the Osirons seem so hesitant to take action into their own hands while other Academy staff/drones are present; they're totally reliant on the commands of their superiors.
I've noticed while playing that after all of the "spotters" are killed, the Osiron Security AI changes and they begin to attack on their own. Pretty neat!
-
I think you interpret too much into it.
-
I write stories as a hobby, so whenever I see things like this I get this need to develop and flesh out lore. :)
-
It's great that you do, and I hope to see a lot more from you! But Im afraid this one is contrary to the existing lore. You have painted Osiron as a slave force to the Academy, but in fact they have a mutual agreement. Yes, the Osiron goes where the Academicians go, but they are more like permanently hired bodyguards. No, actually it is more akin to marriage (of the organisations of course, not of individual members). A very long term contract.
So if Academicians tell Osiron men to, say, guard an installation, then they will, because it is part of their eternal agreement. But if an Academician tried to mistreat them, they would lash back as a monolith. It's an ancient order of macho warriors after all, with decent understanding of honour and duty. The Academicians may have Espers, but Osiron has guns, lots of them. And both sides understand their relationship very well.
-
It's great that you do, and I hope to see a lot more from you! But Im afraid this one is contrary to the existing lore. You have painted Osiron as a slave force to the Academy, but in fact they have a mutual agreement. Yes, the Osiron goes where the Academicians go, but they are more like permanently hired bodyguards. No, actually it is more akin to marriage (of the organisations of course, not of individual members). A very long term contract.
So if Academicians tell Osiron men to, say, guard an installation, then they will, because it is part of their eternal agreement. But if an Academician tried to mistreat them, they would lash back as a monolith. It's an ancient order of macho warriors after all, with decent understanding of honour and duty. The Academicians may have Espers, but Osiron has guns, lots of them. And both sides understand their relationship very well.
Oh, thanks for the clarifications, Solarius! Come to think of it, I totally forgot about the ancient log for the Osirons, and I wasn't sure if the Piratez Osirons would have the same beginnings as X-Com Apocalypse Osirons. The ones from X-Com Apocalypse were definitely hard core gangsters that meant business. Do the Osirons from your X-Com Files mod have the same beginnings/lore as well? I have not gotten too far into X-Com Files yet. :)
-
The Osiron from X-Com: Apocalypseis only an inspiration - after all, that timeline never happened in Piratez. But the one from Piratez and the X-Com Files are indeed the same organization - as much as you can say it about an organization 600 years apart. Osiron in XCF are simply crooks dealing in exotic tech, mostly just a breather (maybe except That One Mission), but you can never fully defeat them since they don't have real command structures. In Piratez, they are one of the most powerful organizations in the world (even if you discount the Academy), specialized in medium-tech military but also retaining much of its Triad spirit.
The early Osiron was never properly curbed and somehow managed to become the top dog in Earth alien-related crime. The rest is written in the Ancient Log ACO6-B5 - I could paste it here, but I don't want to spoil it for you.
-
Thanks a ton for the info, Solarius, I still have quite a bit to learn I see. I enjoy the fact that huge mods like Piratez and X-Com Files develop their stories and aren't just shooting recolored Sectoids with retextured plasma guns, they have so much more going for them. I've only gotten a few of the ancient logs throughout my playthroughs, since I'm mostly focused on getting useful tech first before the factions come and stomp my ass (because I'm a masochist who only plays on Superhuman/Jack Sparrow difficulty in ironman mode). :P
-
I write stories as a hobby, so whenever I see things like this I get this need to develop and flesh out lore. :)
Oh, I just meant the AI. I don't think there is a Osiron AI, and Osiron shoots me with Academyans on site or not.
-
I think you interpret too much into it.
Shame on you for saying that. I am delighted by Serpentium building stories inspired by my stories. It's the highest praise.
-
Shame on you for saying that. I am delighted by Serpentium building stories inspired by my stories. It's the highest praise.
Rience Wind was referring to AI mechanics, not lorebuilding. But you are excused, since literally everyone misunderstood this. :)
-
Shame on you for saying that. I am delighted by Serpentium building stories inspired by my stories. It's the highest praise.
I'll get around to making that novel someday.... when I have more time.... and am not writing something else.
-
So, if both X-Com files and Puratez are same econtinuity, does it also mean that:
Hybrids --> Mutant Alliance
Church of Dagon --> Church of Sirius (just changing one master for another)
Syndicate --> Humanists
Black Lotus witches --> Academy
-
So, if both X-Com files and Puratez are same econtinuity, does it also mean that:
Hybrids --> Mutant Alliance
Church of Dagon --> Church of Sirius (just changing one master for another)
Syndicate --> Humanists
Black Lotus witches --> Academy
It's not that simple, but not wrong either. 600 years of history is a long period of time, and many organizations in X-Com Files are temporary. But bigger forces pulling the strings are very old and virtually indestructible, and they may well stand behind an organization from XCF and a similar (or even different) organization from Piratez...
-
I'm pretty sure the Church of Dagon got either eaten by the aquatoids or turned into war machines.
-
I'm pretty sure the Church of Dagon got either eaten by the aquatoids or turned into war machines.
At least they got to live in T'Leth as promised... ;)
-
But bigger forces pulling the strings are very old and virtually indestructible, and they may well stand behind an organization from XCF and a similar (or even different) organization from Piratez...
I think good explanation for the Well Wisher is that they are X-Com remnant who retreated into another dimension using Cyberweb tech and now can’t physicaly come back, perhaps because they turned themselves into something not quite human anymore to survive there.
-
Honestly they look more like Incubators to me. There's something sinister about them, at best they have no understanding of how humans think, at worst they don't actually care. Maybe love is the energy they syphon for reasons unknown. If I understand the lore OK(fat chance there) they're likely mortal enemies of the Star Gods, but literally all we know about those enemies is that they exist and are sort of in a maybe cold war with the Gods of the Star Gods and that they're assumed to offer boons that undermine the authority of their enemies. Only thing we really know of the Well Wisher is that it(they?) give gifts and are in love with Love or at least attention, and they've suggested that they manipulated the situation to get your crew where they start.
-
Yeah, I find the Well Wisher really sinister once I first got a hold of Purple Flower's recipes. Those "sentient" golems (aka Magical Girls) arrive in their little ships with... among other things, recipes that I assume show you how to turn their fleshy parts into magical cake. I chuckled a little since it reminds me of that old Asian proverb of "a duck comes bearing green onions."
-
Is it intentional that you can use a cloning center to farm magical cakes out of a magical girl?
-
As far as I'm aware it's not a bug, you're basically just giving them enough resources to quickly regenerate, right?
-
still creepy cloned flesh cake.
-
Cyberweb from XCF were already transhuman cyborgs in late 90’s with access to Dimension X (where they could steal flesh golem technology), six centuries later they could be fairly inhuman.
-
Well I was thinking, if:
Snakeman + human = lamia
Sectoid + human = bugeye
Muton + human = brute
Then:
Chryssalid + human = uber? (chryssalids are fast strong and containhellerium in their bodies, unlike other aliens)
-
Well I was thinking, if:
Snakeman + human = lamia
Sectoid + human = bugeye
Muton + human = brute
Then:
Chryssalid + human = uber? (chryssalids are fast strong and containhellerium in their bodies, unlike other aliens)
I remember someone (maybe Dioxine) said something about mutons not being a species, but a form of "mutation" of their own, to make organism stronger, but stupider. Mercenaries and MegaPol Apemans as example.
Uber is "just" created by giving a human body ability to process h/ellerium. Academy experiments and stuff. Ubers are just "better" humans, faster, stronger, better psi/voodoo potential, smarter, thougher etc.
Chryssalid looks too diffrent from humans, or Ubers to make it possible and "belivelable".
-
If mutons are just mutants, then what are those big green-suited "aliens" we were fighting this whole time back in vanilla X-Com?
-
No, ubers are not artificially bred. They are simply humans (or mutants, there is no difference really) who over hundreds of years adapted to metabolizing hellerium.
Remember, ubers normally live in the Zones, which are whole ecosystems operating on hellerium (due to its local abundance). We have uber wheat, uber potatoes, uber apples, uber people.... And also many more uber life forms which are not directly shown in the game (like gigantic monsters, gigantic trees, mosquitoes the size of pigeons, etc.). These changes occurred simultaneously in many separate places, so we can assume that this is what happens naturally when you have a biosphere existing over depleted hellerium deposits. Humans are no exception.
If you really want to look for possible proto-ubers, then the Luchadores from The X-Com Files are a potential candidate (we've briefly discussed it with Dioxine once). They are a subculture/sect of people who eat zombie flesh and can somewhat metabolize its high energy content, though it's not a pretty process and tends to make them cuckoo (though they certainly weren't very sane in the first place, they eat zombies).
As for the mutons, it seems that indeed it is a medical procedure rather than a species. However, the original mutons from 1999 must have been something before, probably. Sometimes I wonder semi-seriously if they aren't the same species as the Floaters...
-
Same species is an interesting thought if somewhat unlikely due to the deferring facial/head structure in some artwork. Floaters have various cranial protrusions, mutons do not.
But from the standpoint creating specialized troop species for heavy(muton) and skirmish(floater) work is not unreasonable.
-
Chryssalid + human = uber? (chryssalids are fast strong and containhellerium in their bodies, unlike other aliens)
Chryssalid + human = Chryssalid + Chryssalid + dead human. Mating with them is lethal - a few minutes later a fresh one pops out of your body.
As others have said, Ubers are more-or-less random mutations.
If you really want to look for possible proto-ubers, then the Luchadores from The X-Com Files are a potential candidate (we've briefly discussed it with Dioxine once). They are a subculture/sect of people who eat zombie flesh and can somewhat metabolize its high energy content, though it's not a pretty process and tends to make them cuckoo (though they certainly weren't very sane in the first place, they eat zombies).
Sounds like that's where the Cannies came from.
-
Chryssalids can ultilise hellerium and they are obviously highly compatible with terrestrial life it makes sense to base the hellerium utilising biochemical aparatus one develops for terrestrial life on them. It just seem impossible that mammals could develop it via spontaneous mutation in such short time, so I assumed there was soem sort of alien engineered retrovirus or other kind of biotechnological sorcery at the start.
As for original mutons, they might be very closely relaetd or even the same species as ethereals.
-
Sounds like that's where the Cannies came from.
Good point; cannies are sort-of-ubers after all.
Chryssalids can ultilise hellerium and they are obviously highly compatible with terrestrial life it makes sense to base the hellerium utilising biochemical aparatus one develops for terrestrial life on them. It just seem impossible that mammals could develop it via spontaneous mutation in such short time, so I assumed there was soem sort of alien engineered retrovirus or other kind of biotechnological sorcery at the start.
Chryssalids are artificially made, though they are somehow related to the space zombie plague which seems to be natural.
As for the uber mutation being bioengineered: since it is such a broad effect, it can always be theorized to be by design, but I think it's going too far in speculation.
As for original mutons, they might be very closely relaetd or even the same species as ethereals.
It actually makes more sense than the Floaters, considering their special relationship with the Ethereals. (Tau, anyone?)
-
Every race besides Mutons looks fairly diffrent from humans. Mutons have "perfect" proportions and shape of a human. Feets looks just like ours, hands also (three fingers, but well... "Aliens"), just like insides (without cybernetics). Only their face looks very diffrent. I have two theories that in my opinion fits best:
Mutons are abducted humans "mutated" (As their name can hint "Muton" = "Mutated") with some alien gene and then with purple skin grafted on them and green suit on top of that.
Second (and more probably) theory is that Mutons are mutated Cydonians, race that inhabited Mars, but lost with Ethernals.
-
Notice that muton and ethereal faces are similar, when you look at the autopsy picture the ethereal looks like starved muton with closed eyes and some funny growths around her (or his?) neck. These might be vestigial external gills, suggesting aquatic larval stage. The muton lacks these, so theither they were surgicaly removed or the ethereal is neotenic.
-
Check the imagine of Muton's autopsy and it's description. They have special "skin" grafted to their body and on the imagine you can see it's left eye and area around it is light-blue - Original skin of Mutons.
Mutons are the only humanoid alien that can't close their eyes. They also lack "cheek" bones of Ethernals. Also they lack nose, unlike Ethernals.
Mutons from intro are more detailed and more differences can be seen.
They might originate from the same species with Ethernals discovering their Psychic potential and enslaving lesser brothers.
-
Looking at the into, the overall skull shape still looks reasonably similar with very thin jaws barely half the width of the upper face, with muton having massive mastication muscles the ethereal (who are mentioned to suffer form severe muscle athropy) lacks. In the intro, the red muton is shown blinking, so obviously they can close their eyes (not being able to do so woudl be a critical design flaw for a cyborg soldiers anyway)
-
While I don't think it's canon, and I don't know if it should be canon, I think the Mutons being genetically related to Ethereals (or even the same species) is possible.
Now I'm trying to decide if this idea is genius or lame. :)