OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Resources => Topic started by: Tentaculars on August 19, 2012, 08:21:08 am
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I want to show you my custom bathset made for openXcom. Get impressions and tell your opinion.
Prewiewpictures are included.
Why i made this example ?
Interior sets often lack objects to create more specific/indivudal rooms. So i decided to make a bathroomset with some basic objects. This should give more freedom to map/tileblock designers.
(download @ attachement)
-The tileformat fits 32x40 and is splitted correctly.
-The tiles should fit smoothly together.
-NEWtileplacementinfo.jpg gives you a help how to puzzle larger tiles together
These tiles have NOT been tested in XCOM EU & openXcom. I do not own XCOM Enemy unknown.
I do not know how to bring the graphics into the final game.
Problems with PCKview
I saved tiles as 32x40 pixels 8-BIT BMP & applied the UFO-Battlescape colorpalette from https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=PALETTES.DAT (Tactical palette).
Still there seems something to be wrong. The colors seem to be accurate but still mess up in Editors like PCKview. Luke83 said if he pastes the files into an orginal game .bmp everything works allright although there is no change in the used colors. I simply have no idea why the program is not accepting .BMP files using the accurate colorpalette created in GIMP.
Anyone any ideas about that ?
Before i am going to make other tiles i'd like to get opinions about colors/Contrasts that are used. And of course it finaly needs a sucessful ingame test or all the effort might be simply wasted.
Any sugesstions for specific sets,colors,objects etc are aprecciated. I looked for bathrooms via Google and there are a lot of different styles and types. To bad a lot of details simply get lost at the resolution of 32x40. May be you found some interessting pics that could be a refference for a set.
https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/bathlevelexpample.gif/
Tentaculars
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This looks really awesome. As for the palette, are you sure that you chose to save it with gif palette?
All the colors and objects seem very nice. The only thing I'm not sure is the color of the walls - it seems a bit too dark and different from the rest of the colors used.
Anyway, good job. This is exactly what xcom is missing - some real "rooms" (as in terror missions as in xcom bases).
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The Models were designed as 3D-models in Blender.
1.Rendered & saved them as 32x40 .PNG
2.Opened the file in GIMP
3.Switched Colormode from RGB to indexed
4.Selected as indexed colorpalette "Custom" and selected the UFO-tactical/Battlescape.PNG Palettefile from Ufopedia
5.Unchecked "remove unused colors from palette"
6. Saved the file as .bmp
That's it and i am really not sure what i am missing.
About the Color of the walls -> Red might look a bit to agressive together with the white marblegroundtiles. I thought so too, but the best impression if something is right or not is to get it working ingame. The Color red is so dark because of the colorpalette -> you have to play a bit arround before applying the UFO-palette or the results will look uggly.
There are also very interessting color combinations in the Web. Simply changing the colors will already give a totaly different feeling for the tileset.
https://www.google.de/search?hl=de&biw=1024&bih=625&site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=bathrooms&btnG= (keyword "bathroom")
F.e.: almost black/darkgrey marbleground and light gray walls. wooden floor and white walls. There are a lot of good examples. Although for other rooms.
Tentaculars
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Open doors probably will not work correctly. Because door frame will overlap unit draw on this square.
And for big bathtubs, you "cut" them wrong, remember that half of it can be blowup :) I think better way was to render every square independent.
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"probably doors will not work"....that's the problem. I need to know :(
The bathhubs need to be fixed. I simply forgot them to render them independent. There are other examples in the ZIP (farm1 -> tractor /loaderwageon/silo). They are done this way and leave some inner detail remaining if they should blow up.
Without 1st hand ingame experience its not very recommended way to continue work just with help of imagination. I still have no idea why the colorpalettes dont work. It's not good to leave some almost finished graphics behind with the note that the colors won't work....not good at all.
Who is going to use that? Things have to work as expected and i don't like patches to play around with.
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Good job Tentaculars :)
Can you consider releasing your blender files on some opensource license? It would be great to have them when future OpenXcom will support higher resolution, higher bpp.
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Great work mate, i want to build a SPECIAL MISSION where the aliens attack a SWANKY hotel, and your Bathroom is a MUST ;)
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The Bath still could use some more stuff: tables,chairs and may be a carpet.
Well if i think about "special" locations most of the time Xcom gives a very superficial impression/visuals. I have thoughts about making a huge hotel or hospital and you can imagine there are plenty of different rooms with different stuff in there -> swimming pool, luxus suite, 2nd class suites, restaurant, kitchen,floors, casino and and and.
Interiors could look much more individual even at that old engine.
I already had that thought about later versions of OXcom @ higher resolutions. I think its okay to give those models for further use in oXcom as long its uncommercial. First there needs to be a solid libary of objects, its just to early to think about that. First create & then decide what to do.
And by the way for anybody interessted:
It is NOT difficult to learn Blender for basic stuff. Only the organic 3D modelling (humans, animals etc.) seems to be more challenging and need experience. There are great free beginner tutorials and after just 2 days you'll have your first own model. I am not very experienced but i am happy to give advice/links if anybody needs.
Stuff like i did here can be done by anybody.
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Here is Tentaculars Silo in Mapview
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I see alot of "holes" and jagged things. Not saying about weird lilliputian ladder.
I vote for drawn graphics with pixel-precise control and smooth gradients. 3D is not what is needed.
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Problem with 2D is , there is no talent artists here , I for one cant draw anything this good and would prefer to stick to map building.
Any 3D model can be cleaned up by hand - however this model , i thought it looked good.....Anyone else with a View?
Tentaculars made these at my request as i want to build a different Farm map after i finish my UFO Upgrades so i wont use them to mix with the original set, other people might ;)
Is this Nice or Not ?
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I shouldnt have apllied any textur to the model since the resolution will make that look all just strange. However i dont see any holes or slicing lines anymore @ Volutar
And the "liliputan ladder" goes hand in hand with the liliputan resolution ;).
If you want realistic proportions then the silo needs something like 5x5 and 6 levels high - then you can have a reasonable sized ladder which seems to be climbable. Or you have a realistic sized ladder that will make the huge silo look "liliputan". However i do not like the silo at the current state too .
4 Levels and 40x32 dont give to much room unless you want some supermegasized tiles which are hard to puzzle together with the current mapeditor/Gameengine. After all this is finaly the 1st result at all that has made it into the game i did not expect it to be perfect. More i expected mistakes and colors/proportions that might need a change. Nothing is final and will be used as feedback to adjust things.
I think the tractor/loaderwagon are already better done and will already fit in better. I try to make a compromise between the resolution/tilesystem and proportions. The loaderwagon f.e. has 2 Levels heights and 2x5 tiles. That's total amount aof 10 tiles to place. That is already a very "fat object" for Xcom battlescape.
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I think its a Nice mapitem and i will build a MCD set just for it so anyone can use it IF they want. I can see this on a Farm map, Out the back of a Building in the dessert , industrial area etc , so it will have its own set that will be uploaded onto the Mod-Site under Tenaculars page.
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XCom is not about real proportions. People are as high as buildings, doors go from floor to ceiling, and so on... It has alot of distorted things, and intentionally made non-realistic. Different vehicles from post above are quite nice, but they are really far away from xcom style. The thing of this 3D approach is inability to fit xcom style properly. It either should be drawn (probably with looking at rendered things), or have 3D engine which will get same distorted cartoonish-like proportions. Everything "realistic" will make this project dull and boring. First image with bathroom potentially could fit xcom style (after proper color-work and pixel-precise editing).
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Hobbes uses Cars an Vans in his maps for Xcom , i think it suits rather nicely if the map can handle them.
https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=6069
I guess it comes down to personal Taste
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Small cars and vans - probably yes, but not big vehicles, which are able to occupy too much place, or else they become toys.
Something like that could be nice:
(https://www.ravelco.com/i/skidsteer.jpg).
The thing is, after rendering of such 3D things, you have to edit it pixel-by-pixel, have to correct jaggedness or even proportions... So it could take even more time than if you draw it from scratch.
You've said there are no good 2d pixel artists? I refuse to believe it. Currently there are no such "vacancies" in this project, so noone is willing to make some nice graphics. Believe me, when 1.0 out - some people with good 2d pixel drawing skills will appear.
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I said there are no Talented Artists HERE , currently i am doing what i can but i really only specialise in Cut and Paste :-\. I have previously posted my stuff on OPENGAMEART trying to get people interested in joining this project and helping me with ART assets ,but so far none have come across that i know of. Well i hope some more talent people show up , my art is rather bad ::)
Yes a Bobcat would be cool
Tentaculars - I think your doors open the wrong way , i just viewed a TFTD door, it has the Door frame around it also but the door swings other side.
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luke83, there were people drawing upscaled sprites for ufotts... it's too pity they've closed forum. you could look for them in there.
PS: I can draw pixel graphics if I have to.
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PS: I can draw pixel graphics if I have to.
Should i just send you a list of what i require for some new maps or what :P
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After 1.0, probably, yes.
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I think what I've seen so far from Tentaculars is very nice, but it reminds me heavily of the Apocalypse graphics. It looks too 3-dimensional for UFO:EU :)
Maybe with a few changes to the rendering setup it would look more like the original: less directional light sources to reduce the 3D aspect for example.
I think UFO:EU generally uses very few curved surfaces (for technical reasons, mostly), but it's part of the style, so anything that has too many curves automatically looks out-of-place.
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meh, i aint even pixel artist but more into 3d also with 3dsmax ,but theres plenty of good simple tutorials for isometric pixel art. just doodled this quickly while ago, using this brushset and learning how to use shadeing and lighting in px-art. yes that tanker is bit bland n ugly :p
https://www.nasc.fr/brush/photoshop-pixel-art-brushs-v4/ - brushes
https://kiwinuptuo.deviantart.com/art/Pixel-Art-Tutorial-Basics-196016837. - lighthing/shadeing
https://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/093/7/c/pixel_art_tutorial___textures_by_kiwinuptuo-d3d4ufx.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia3exD3JRx8&feature=plcp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia3exD3JRx8&feature=plcp)
... also i think there is plenty of ppl who would like to do pixel art for UFO series. if only they knew that it is possible to do these days. maybe should do some spamming to popular pixel related places and inform ppl?
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@luke83
Your're right about that 1 door @ Luke83. It opens up in the wrong side. I just checked.
I just checked & changed it. The door opens up now correctly and the bathhubs have been resliced.
@Volutar: It is annoying much work thats true but i doubt that its realy much more work than per hand. Tileproportions will always fit, i setup the rendercamera/resolution in a way it will produce a perfect matching 32x40 tile as result. I'll try to upload a new silo without so much noise next days.
I am not so sure about if people will think its "boring" just because their might be some huger tilesobjects. In my opinion its simply freedom of modding.
About the lightning:
I still playing around to get something more close to the comicstyle and the results are quite different.
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So far the first results. The upper part shows RGB-Values, the lower part shows result after applying XCOM UFOcolorpalette. Not optimal, but may be a base to work with and modify.
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I guess the cube is the size of one in-game square?
the silo in itself looks good, but I think it has too much detail for xcom :) I guess it is 2x2 squares, right?
About the ladder: I'm not sure if the ring-like things are supposed to be the rungs of the ladder or those railing-like things that you usually find on high-reaching ladders that are supposed to keep you from falling off. If they are the rungs, why are they convex? if they are the railings, it doesn't look like your average xcom human would fit in there. Also, I'm not sure if I would put ladders in the graphics when the game engine doesn't support anything like those. It will only lead to frustration when people see a ladder and try to make their snipers climb it only to find that it's not possible. (Now if openxcom were to support ladders, that would be way cool, but the mechanics involved might be just a little too much. And I'm not even starting on the animations...)
About the content of the silo: always consider that objects may be partially (tile-by-tile) destroyed in xcom. if somebody were to destroy just one part of the silo, the contents would be expected to spill out - but the game engine doesn't support that. so either we only use empty silos, or they need to contain some kind of solid substance that doesn't spill - which kind of goes against the principles of a silo, I'm afraid :(
the way xcom works, you always have to consider this tile-based segmentation. if a 2x2 structure has some kind of support structure along the side (or something like your ladder), it is best placed off-center, contained to one of the segments. otherwise, a partially destroyed object features a structural element that has been split lengthwise, which goes against expected behavior. am I making sense? now that I read it again it reads kind of complicated... ???
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As for water leaking out of a destroyed item , simply create a Destroyed Sprite with a small pool of liquid at the base, this is already done on the Alien Entertainment item.
As for the Ladders , i would love to see Openxcom to support them, i thought once about using a Alien Level change MCD and adding a Ladder to the graphic , you would just teleport between levels like normal but increase the TUs used.
As for his work looking too 3D for EU , well maybe we should use them for the NEW Openxcom Game i mentioned in another forum , Xcom meets Fallout.
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@ moriarty :No the Cube was simply a help to setup the lightsource as the cylinder. Top is bright,front is medium and right side is darkest.
The silo is currently sized 2x2 tiles @ 3 Floorlevels.
About the "realism discussion"
This is realy strange in my opinion. Very common an often seen in many discussions.
Sometimes realism is used to support an opinion and sometimes its used to fight it off ;). Just as it serves :)
Xcom simply doesnt support many things and nobody will get disapointed. I was not when i could not climb through windows or jump over hole. This is not a new game that claims to be very realistic, so it does not make so much sence to pick on those missing features. If you shoot an alien undewater shouldnt be there a blood trail or swiming organs above his corpe ? Is that realistic ? Who cared about that when he played TFTD for example. Why don't grenades bounce of walls or why you cannot "bowl/roll" them down a stair.
Why can't you climb over halfmensized objects ? There are desks and chairs in the game. Why cant you open or sit down ? Does that add any importance to the gameplay ?
Well here is the answer : they're just cosmetic objects, that's what theyre suposed to be.
That does not mean that climbing up a ladder f.e. is wrong. I think that would be a nice idea to add.
I just dont like the discussion if something is good or bad just because it fits realism or not. In another discussion you're talking about fistfighting aliens which sounds ridicoulus in the first place ->
"hey i am fistfighting of a lobsterman, then im buttkicking a biodrone (cyberdisc)".
My opinion:
If there are any posibilies to bring that into game and make it somehow (rarely) usefull whitout makeing aliens look like weaklings/fools - why not. Question is more: is there space for it so it adds to the gameplay experience.
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I guess you are right about the cosmetic objects like chairs that have no functional value. although in a battle I'm more likely to climb up a ladder in search of a sniper spot than to sit down in a chair ;)
(also I'm not the one who wants to add tons of melee actions to the game - I was actually trying to tone that discussion down a notch, because I also think that true melee actions against aliens are ridiculous.)
I'm sorry if my criticism sounded a bit harsh. I was trying to make constructive suggestions. I wasn't trying to say that it looks too real in general, but that it will probably look weird when standing in a battlescape next to one of the original xcom objects, because it has a different style. as I mentioned before, your style reminds me of apocalypse :)
the main point I was trying to make is that in xcom, most larger objects suffer from the tile-based object splitting approach. just think about trees that not only look weird when parts have been destroyed, but also just hang in the air if you shoot away the trunk. same with streetlights. (there's something that could use some improvement in openxcom...)
for your silo, look at the support structure underneath (is that eight-sided or six-sided, btw?): if you destroy parts of it, you will have horizontal struts ending in mid-air. maybe the structure could be changed so that each individual tile still looks functional without the others?
the ladder could be moved to be completely in one tile, so that by destroying the silo partially you will never have half a ladder (split vertically).
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the main point I was trying to make is that in xcom, most larger objects suffer from the tile-based object splitting approach. just think about trees that not only look weird when parts have been destroyed, but also just hang in the air if you shoot away the trunk. same with streetlights. (there's something that could use some improvement in openxcom...)
for your silo, look at the support structure underneath (is that eight-sided or six-sided, btw?): if you destroy parts of it, you will have horizontal struts ending in mid-air. maybe the structure could be changed so that each individual tile still looks functional without the others?
the ladder could be moved to be completely in one tile, so that by destroying the silo partially you will never have half a ladder (split vertically).
It would be great if this "FLOATING Object" issue could be handled someway in Openxcom by some intelligent programming by Daiky, it doesn't need to be Xcom Apocalypse good , just basic functionality .
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Well.. My 2 cents about REALISM...
First of all - xcom is The Battlescape, it's simply LaserSquad2 + Geoscape added later.
So XCom battlescape is turn-based, thus already unrealistic. As for model I perceive it something like advanced chess, with set of rules which have not very much common with reality. So why adding some "realistic" features should be considered dozen of times before trying to integrate into what I better call "classic gameplay". I presume some of them could be added and really must be added, but with pretty thorough consideration. I wish it not to become some casual bullshit game from one side, nor hardcore game.
I believe this Game should have very simple and not very long list of logical rules, though quite diverse game situations as consequences of combinating of different actions and objects (and probably AI). That should create alot of "fun" and even a moments of discovering.
I know there will be number of nerds which will make those rules estimated and described, but with really complex formulas of influence on each other, that may become a) not easy task; b) unnecessary. That (b) will be specially true, if game will create those rules on every "new game".
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It simply all points to "could it be fun that way - yes or no ????" "nice to have - yes or no" that's all. Easy rulesets can be fun and challenging and
games should be challenging and fun at the same time. Anything else is debatable.
Forget discussions about realism, forget casualism (i realy hate that word by the way) it leads to nothing. It has no substance at all to talk about if its "good or bad". You could also argue for decades about if purple is a good or bad color (without any context or hint why this is discussed).
@Moriarty:
I understand your point of view but i think this is simply a problem of the 2D-tilesystem itself. There is no big problem to relocate the ladder but in the end it does not change to much. Those larger objects simply will look strange when one part will be shot away (clean precise cutting lines). It was always like that in Xcom. Crashing/Collapsing objects may be again a nice idea which might add playvalue/coolness to the game.
My opinion is for that kind of stuff (as bouncing of grenandes, too etc.) a 3D-engine is more advisable or you end up haveing a lot of pain trying to make that happen. Since this is a EU replica that is/will be modable it has some natural limits.
Its more likely to arrange yourself with some of these limts instead to try complicated timeconsuming workarrounds.
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+1 for more fun, realism is boring :p