OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Offtopic => Topic started by: michal on August 13, 2010, 09:17:33 pm
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Hello,
In another thread Daiky has written:
Hi, I found this project because I wanted to put my UFO xcom remake sourcode also open for public under the projectname OpenXCom Smiley
The funny thing is, I got most of the battlescape stuff done, but have nothing on the geoscape side. (The battlescape starts just by loading a battlescape savegame)
I've now downloaded your geoscape code, and I'm looking if I can combine both in one project... it will not be so easy because I did not use GPL but a game engine called Irrlicht, so there's some conversion to do... I don't know if it even will ever work, but it's worth the try.
Best regards,
Daiky
This sounds interesting, could you tell more about your project? I'm interested especially in Irrlicht - Does it mean that battlescape is in 3d? So, you used 3d models, textures, etc?
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Irrlitch is a 3D game engine yeah, I think it was considered at some point for Xenocide.
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Oh, I see I got my own thread :)
PS. in my post i ment "SDL" instead of "GPL"
The reason to choose Irrlicht as the engine was for me just because the original plan was to make it a 3D version of the game. When I had finished some playable battlescape; it had a character running around(pathfinding) a map (map generation), it could shoot wooden fences that are destructable (collision detection, 2 models per object:normal and destructed).
However then I realised I had to depend on modellers to create all this graphical stuff to make the game look any good.
At that time (I think it was 2005) there was no real "close to the original" remake in public. So I decided to do that instead (and make it OpenXCOM later on, like OpenTTD did). It is easier in a way, because your goal is very clear and I did not have to bother with graphics - they're done. Because I already knew Irrlicht, and it can do 2D as well, it was my obvious choice to use that instead of learning another engine. And would I ever want to go back 3D - the engine is ready for it.
At the same time I was also contributing to the opensource project UFO2000 (which uses Allegro as engine), so parts of the tactical code also comes from there (they will be properly credited when something goes public ofc).
I want to stay as close to the original as possible, although under the hood I have updated some file formats that are more common today:
- the tilesheets are all converted to PNG files and doubled in resolution, which is a much opener format so a graphical upgrade like UFO:the two sides is easely implemented by replacing old tilesheets with new ones.
- the midi music files are replaced with mp3 music files.
Some background info about myself:
I'm based in Belgium, Europe. I'm working as a software engineer for a big American software company for almost 10 years.
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This sounds interesting, could you tell more about your project? I'm interested especially in Irrlicht - Does it mean that battlescape is in 3d? So, you used 3d models, textures, etc?
So no 3D for now. This is for now just a solo project, but I can't do graphics, I only do coding (and music) so I have to borrow graphics somewhere to have a playable game. Which is much more satisfying than a game full of placeholders, which are basically just boxes where later the actual model should be, it looks dull :)
I golden rule in graphics for games is also that they are very consistent in style through the whole game, so in my opinion you either redo all graphics are you do nothing. (because the original ones were consistent)
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This is interesting. What about posting some screenshots? From first (3d version) and second.
So, what are your current plans? You want to combine your code with openxcom code? Any progress?
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I have posted a screenshot from both versions on my blog: https://www.daiky.be/2010/08/x-com-ufo-remake.html
My current plans:
First of all, I'm currently struggling with the perfect User Interface for the tactical battle. I find the original one not very user friendly. But I don't want to go too far away from the original looks... in the screenshot you see my first attempt but I'm not happy with it. I think User Interface is an important part of the game, and I want it, like I said, to be perfect.
What is next... there as still some features waiting to be implemented: medikits, blaster launcher waypoints, mind control, some aliens special abilities like zombies and stuff, ...
Combine with openxcom code:
I'm looking into that, yes, just to see if it goes well to port it to the Irrlicht engine.
But right now, don't expect massive progress. I do have a job, a social life, and both WoW and SC2 to play :p
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I have posted a screenshot from both versions on my blog: https://www.daiky.be/2010/08/x-com-ufo-remake.html
Those screenshots looks quite interesting. Any chance to have them also full size?
My current plans:
First of all, I'm currently struggling with the perfect User Interface for the tactical battle. I find the original one not very user friendly. But I don't want to go too far away from the original looks... in the screenshot you see my first attempt but I'm not happy with it. I think User Interface is an important part of the game, and I want it, like I said, to be perfect.
Yeah, UI is really important - especially in such (strategy) games. For example IMHO Ufo: AI ui is not too good.
But right now, don't expect massive progress. I do have a job, a social life, and both WoW and SC2 to play :p
Heh, another project slowed by SC2 :P
Anyway, keep us informed. BTW, are you planning to make source available somewhere?
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I fixed the blogpost so the images are clickable to view them full size.
I'm inspired by the UI of SC2 in the design I'm currently working on... :) minimap on the left, unit information in the middle, actionbuttons on the right... simple and functional.
OpenSource, yes, but only after some code maintenance and refactoring because clean code was never a priority. I already have to write clean code at work, at home I can let myself go :)
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Is it same project?
https://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242026706
You had that website?
https://www.xcomufo3d.com/
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Yes, TomVD, that's me. And I had registrated xcomufo3d.com for my project, that's already 4 years ago :)
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I wondered what happened to your project :) Now i know ;)
I'm also wondering how many ppl also here have tried remaking ufo :)
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I wish OpenXcom will have the same UI as original but with shortcuts for each action so mouse will be used only on map, but not on the panel.
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I wish OpenXcom will have the same UI as original but with shortcuts for each action so mouse will be used only on map, but not on the panel.
I totally agree with the shortcuts for actions!
I don't agree with same UI as original. For me it always has been a weak point in the original game; and today with higher resolution screens, UIs can contain more info for the user, so you have to click less buttons to get the same info (like a minimap and a soldier selection panel, see my blog link below)
https://www.daiky.be/2010/08/good-day-for-user-interface-prototyping.html
PS. And if you look closely to the screenshot, you will notice a subtile shadow at the feet of the soldiers... very small enhancement, but it makes a difference ;)
PS2. I was also looking for a way to soften the edge of the fog of war (by using shaders), but that enhancement is currently on hold.
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Is it same project?
https://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242026706
You had that website?
https://www.xcomufo3d.com/
Oh I remember that thread, I always liked that TFTD remix of yours. :D
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Daiky - do you plan to release some tech demo maybe?
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Daiky - do you plan to release some tech demo maybe?
Some day maybe.
The only thing that I have planned now is for to get the project back on track (this open xcom project inspired me), getting one or more extra programmers to join it for a new kick off, where I also want to have the role as a Project Leader. I hope to find programmers in my country, so we can actually meet IRL also. I don't know how realistic that is :)
That official kick off will be at september 21st, when I'm back from a short vacation, it will be back online with a new website with blog, code repository, bug/feature tracker, forum,...
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Great to hear that. There are always room for new x-com project :) I hope you will find someone to help.
You should ask SupSuper to post a news on his main site, when your site will be ready ;)
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A farm map, quickly rendered in 3D using the original LOF-templates:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZFvuqmKo6Yo/TH_fWQemGyI/AAAAAAAAAEo/uqvK7v08EFA/s1600/its3d2.jpg)
Note that there are a lot of artefacts and stuff that needs to be reworked, but is is used as a start for the shadow/lighting effects in my remake.
The explanation what I'm doing with it is in my post:
https://www.daiky.be/2010/09/2d-3d-x-comufo25d.html
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It's a very interesting approach, although the LOF templates are just approximations so you'll inevitably lose some detail.
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It's a very interesting approach, although the LOF templates are just approximations so you'll inevitably lose some detail.
True. The detail was just fine for line-of-fire and field-of-view checking. When I go one step up and use their shadows and lighting, it's just when I try it, to see if it usable. It is possible I can't use the LOF templates for everything and have to create a few custom models.
PS. you'll notice how floor/rooftops and walls are build up in small pieces. It produces strange visual effects, but I'm working on a procedure to merge these objects at run-time. It should not only remove the artifacts, but dramatically decrease the number of polygons.
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That is very neat!
I knew there were some pseudo-3D going on for line of sight/fire calculations, but this is familiar in an almost eerie way.
Although it doesn't have the detail/texture one would expect of 3D today it would at the very least be a neat way of grey-boxing without requiring 3D modellers to help out :)
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That's really interesting idea.
I think that best strategy would be generate models from lof templates and save them into some generic format (openeable by blender) instead of generating them runtime. And use those models ingame. That way someone could redone them one by one and try it in game instantly - just edit model and save it.
I'm not sure if it will be possible of course - but allowing to easy remake resources would be great advantage for contributors.
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Great work Daiky :)
when i see your work its look like was build using LEGO, add some simple colours and we can start play. :)
i have some crazy idea, it will be fun if you can allow to have dynamic LoF template :) image a possibility to blow holes (or new windows :>) in walls.
you can do it in 2 ways, by adding new template and replace old in that square (or some bit mask) or allow every square have they own LoF data (around 512B per square, 6MB per map, you dont need read all this at once only when you try see or shoot something)
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Great work Daiky :)
when i see your work its look like was build using LEGO, add some simple colours and we can start play. :)
i have some crazy idea, it will be fun if you can allow to have dynamic LoF template :) image a possibility to blow holes (or new windows :>) in walls.
you can do it in 2 ways, by adding new template and replace old in that square (or some bit mask) or allow every square have they own LoF data (around 512B per square, 6MB per map, you dont need read all this at once only when you try see or shoot something)
Thanks.
The desctruction works pretty much like it was in the original (it already works btw). If you blow out a wall, the wall is replaced with a destroyed wall and the model in the 3D world is replaced by the destroyed model.
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but it will be more fun if would be something between wall in good shape and destroyed one :)
i find game named Minecraft: https://www.minecraft.net/play.jsp
its sandbox game, you can destroy any block or create new one where you want (only limitation is he need be close to another one).
https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9591/treeec.jpg this tree have shape of tree form LoF template (i probaby skip one or 2 layers) every block form this game is equal to pixel form LoF template (16x16 block create one layer, add 11 more and you have "square" from ufo).
i though that my idea was impossible to implements but this game show is possible even using Java :)
medium size level from this game is around 16x16x4 squares from UFO (around 256x256x60 blocks in game) . its less than standard level from UFO but you dont need see everything at once. (there are huge maps too but they are too big to draw and i have fps drop)
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That official kick off will be at september 21st, when I'm back from a short vacation, it will be back online with a new website with blog, code repository, bug/feature tracker, forum,...
It's september 21st already ;) Where is your new site? ;)
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That official kick off will be at september 21st, when I'm back from a short vacation, it will be back online with a new website with blog, code repository, bug/feature tracker, forum,...
It's september 21st already ;) Where is your new site? ;)
Well, there is a new blog, but it's not public yet. (there is not a lot of news since last time)
I'm still looking for that extra programmer (in the irrlicht 3D community), because I'm struggling with a few issues there. The performance is still really bad; the reason is that for example a simple barn is treated as almost 200 seperate 3D objects. It should be one object, but that means creating meshes dynamically. Another thing is the current version of irrlicht 3D has really bad shadowing functions. I'm waiting for version 1.8, because it would include better shadows.
Not that I'm not doing anything in while I'm waiting, just not anything 3D at the moment.
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I hope you will find that second programmer :)
Maybe you could ask SupSuper to post something on main site about your project and that you're looking for extra programmer? What do you think? Also, maybe you could ask on projectxenocide or/and ufo: ai forum?
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I'll be willing to help, if you want? Drop me a message if you do.
I've had a brief play with Irrlicht before. Been a while, but I'm sure I can pick it up again
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I'm curious if you guys teamed up together ;)
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I got a quick PM from Daiky about thoughts on how to deal with the project. I sent a reply, but not heard anything more yet
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Maybe you guys could look for some additional ppl to help on project xenocide forum. After all, your project is kinda similar to theirs - you too are making 3d remake.
Of course there are slim chances that you will find anyone there, as px is dead for some time.
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Yeah, the problem is, I got 4 projects atm.
I got the project Xcomufo3D, which I quit 4 years ago. It's current functionality is very basic, loading a map in X-Com style, with 3D objects on it, pathfinding and shooting stuff.
I got the project which I called XcomufoHD, started this year. It's goal was to end up as close as possible to the original, but with some higher resolution 2D graphics. It is playable with terrain destruction, explosions, fire, smoke, line of sight, spawnpoints, routes and AI,... lots of stuff that is not in the xcomufo3D project yet.
This project has 2 other branches, the one with 3D shadows blended on top of the 2D. But technically this is stuck now.
And another branch with a totally new user interface.
I have quit the Xcomufo3D project, because of the main focus on such a project is the art. I do know it would be great to see all the XCom units and maps in a 3D environment. But in such a project I would like to do all the 3D modelling first and keep the game engine for last.
The only project where I can see a light at the end of the tunnel is the xcomufoHD project with the new user interface. On the other hand it is true that 2D isometric is totally outdated now, no matter how high the resolution of your sprites...
Choices...
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2D isometric, outdated?!? Blasphemy! :P
Edit: To be honest I've always imagined OpenXcom becoming some kind of "2D HD X-Com" in the future, once it's all moddable and stuff (so people could choose between original and HD graphics), since it'd look pretty cool. But I'm nowhere near an artist so I'm better off just sticking with the original look for now. ;)
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I still think 3D using the LOF models would be great, but that might just be me
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I'm more with SupSuper in for 2D... open source... moddable... :)
Unless I can use the team of Blizzard that created the artwork for Starcraft 2 to make me all the models of X-Com UFO.
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A part that I've never made public, was my geoscape. But I find it such a shocking difference how easy a geoscape graphically is done with a 3D engine vs a 2D engine :)
It took me 10 minutes, just a few lines of code to add a sphere, texture it with Earth.png, add a light and a rotation animator, add a camera et voila.
It's kinda like a fast-food geoscape. While SupSuper's geoscape is the French Cuisine or a piece of art :)
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Yeah a 3D geoscape has the advantage of being hardware-accelerated and just a sphere with a texture on (unlike the original which is a huge ton of flattened polygons). You'd still be in a world of fun to give it regions, terrains, markers, etc though. ;)
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I recently got me a wacom tablet/pen, so I can have some creative distraction in between programming episodes.
In between doing my excercises for my drawing lessons, I continue my xcomHD project. XcomHD project is among other things a remake of all graphics in x-com:EU and xcom:TFTD in a way that it looks good on modern resolutions (around 1280x720).
All graphics retain their original look, original colors and most of their original shape. All the shapes are repainted and original highlights, shadows and details are added back in. Here is an example of the remade medikit object.
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Looks interesting, although it feels overly smooth like you just put it through a filter. Remember the original was drawn for a much smaller scale, so you can't just resize and fix it up or it'll just look "fatter". Higher resolution is supposed to result in sharper more-detailed graphics. ;)
Still you got my artistic skills beat. :P
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I'm still experimenting and need to fine-tune my process. I'm now thinking of over-sizing the sprite first (x6), to add in the details, and then scale them back to a smaller format (x3), basically because it easier to draw on a larger sprite, but as a side-effect it may have less of the fatter/smooth look.
But it is important to keep the cartoonish look, which is by definition fatter/smoother, otherwise it looks more like a 3D render, which is a totally different style (and in my opinion does not fit the game at all).
Also I don't want to add additional knobs/buttons/lights/widgets to an object. I just took the elements that make up the medi-kit: the red light, the grey/red ribbon on the right edge, the green screen, the two tubes that go into some kind of connectors. These objects have been re-drawn based on the palette and dimensions of the original sprite.
I do this in photoshop, by having two layers L1: the original sprite, L2: an empty layer I'm drawing on. I choose the element I want to redraw: for example the little red light. I colorpick from the original layer the base red color and draw a red circle over the original element. Then I take a soft pen, color white, very low opacity and draw the highlight. Repeat for every element, et voila.
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This is videos how some guy remakes sprites from amiga games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-mkQ4XK4qM&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxXF79ffKk
Of course such technique is probably kinda illegal ;) So such resources couldn't be released as gpl i'm afraid.
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Nice. I'll post a youtube video too when I can.
I doubt that "using a certain technique of drawing" is illegal. Releasing it... maybe, but good luck reading up on the legal concept of releasing derivate work :)
I know driving 70 with your car where you only can go 50 is illegal. I don't feel like I'm doing illegal stuff when I'm drawing cartoons at home... not even when posting videos of it :) I see it as a "fair use" exception.
I'm not aware of anyone ever getting a warning of the original x-com copyright owners? If not, I would very much like to be the first one then :) So I can reply them: "I'm doing something for the x-com fans, where you have failed to do anything for them in all these years !!".
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I contacted every copyright owner I could find and never got a reply, so I'll stay on the safe side but as far as I'm concerned everything we're doing is "fair use" since they don't seem to care. :P
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I was lying ill in bed today, not really in the mood for programming, but drawing went ok. I did a few more conversions. Soon to start the first tileset, to see how that goes.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZFvuqmKo6Yo/TPa5RMoiPuI/AAAAAAAAAFY/oOy46m4PODk/s1600/paperdoll.jpg)
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Daiky i find something that can interested you:
https://www.youtube.com/user/AtomontageEngine#p/a/u/1/n2qkne-EOG8
in this engine you should be able to create full level from LOF-templates :)
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"Voxels are the future of games" :)
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Hey Daiky
A note on the Xcom soldier picture you posted.
Are the soldier pictures not candidates to be redrawn? In the original resolution they looked fine, but in higher resolutions the proportions seems off.
R
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I've kinda quit drawing for now :)