OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Released Mods => The X-Com Files => Topic started by: bluberd on March 28, 2017, 08:04:20 pm
-
Hi,
I understand that moneymaking with manufacture has been nerfed in the X-Files mod and it seems to be reasonable decision, but can someone advise me what is currently the best moneymaker? I found the Alien Laser Rifle almost pays back for maintaining engineers, but is there anything better, which would be better?
-
Motion scanners, if they haven't been changed in profitability from vanilla. Durathread works reasonably well, better than just covering maintenance. Psiclones perhaps? I know they sell for a good bit of cash, never looked at their profit margin though.
-
The best way to make quick cash is seelling money cases/bags. But you can find them in Cult Outpost/Suspicious Cult Activity missions. Oops 8)
-
The best way to make quick cash is seelling money cases/bags. But you can find them in Cult Outpost/Suspicious Cult Activity missions. Oops 8)
Seconded.
I actually want to cut down on the classic moneymaking, in favour of treasure hunting. As well as some alternate paths where you can produce for cash OR sell the patent to someone else (like M.A.G.M.A.) and buy the end product from them for way less than you'd pay to make it yourself (because mass production).
-
I actually want to cut down on the classic moneymaking, in favor of treasure hunting.
And I fully see that, understand and support this decision. What I am looking at is the reason to even have engineering staff and what size. What you have changed is the reasoning behind even having engineers as a business case.
Manufacturing Alien Laser Rifle, which is better than Motion Scanner, does not even cover monthly wages, not to mention the initial cost of hiring and workshop building. Still good to have permanent engineering dept, but just to cover day2day requirements like manufacturing some small pierces of equipment.
That makes every visit on sites with strange animals/cultists viable source of income.
Issue is I am right now in Aug 1998, most of my agents use laser weapons and I found myself tired of grinding money on every bug/cultist hunt.
Those missions pose no challenge anymore - they were interesting and hard at the beginning but since I got auto-snipers and agents shooting at 120 skill level there is no threat anymore.
I started to lean towards only ufo missions as the only interesting ones but I still need money from those boring missions, therefore looking for some more sustainable source of income.
-
I see your point, but what are these grindu missions exacty? Monster hunts can be ended, early cults too, zombies and later cults are still in WIP. With laser rifles you should be able to do cult HQs and the Spider Siberia mission.
-
Issue is I am right now in Aug 1998, most of my agents use laser weapons and I found myself tired of grinding money on every bug/cultist hunt.
Ctrl+D, Ctrl+K ... no shame in that in such cases.
If grinding is the only source of income, do yourself a favor and don't waste your time (it's the only resource you can't buy).
-
I see your point, but what are these grindu missions exacty? Monster hunts can be ended, early cults too, zombies and later cults are still in WIP. With laser rifles you should be able to do cult HQs and the Spider Siberia mission.
I do not know what is Spider Syberia mission, but I guess it is ultimate spider hunt ending mission. I need to research it.
I terminated the Red Dawn (that was a hard one) and they are gone.
So from what I see all those tedious missions fade away when you do the ultimate ending mission, question is to finally research it.
I like that concept and thx for letting me know.
So the spiders end with some Siberia mission, zombies wipe is WIP, Red Down is HQ destroy, for EXALT I still need to find Exalt master fo get HQ destroy.
So, returning to my original question, is there a sustainable source of income, better than Alien Laser Rifle?
-
And I fully see that, understand and support this decision. What I am looking at is the reason to even have engineering staff and what size. What you have changed is the reasoning behind even having engineers as a business case.
Issue is I am right now in Aug 1998, most of my agents use laser weapons and I found myself tired of grinding money on every bug/cultist hunt.
Those missions pose no challenge anymore - they were interesting and hard at the beginning but since I got auto-snipers and agents shooting at 120 skill level there is no threat anymore.
Oh crap. I still have to rely on BlackOps weapons in August 1999.
I started to lean towards only ufo missions as the only interesting ones but I still need money from those boring missions, therefore looking for some more sustainable source of income.
Argh. How often did you stormed UFOs?
-
Oh crap. I still have to rely on BlackOps weapons in August 1999.
Man, I am in October 1999 and still no lasers... (Except a few alien laser rifles, but they're crap.)
Anyway, regarding the "need to grind to sustain myself"... I haven't said anything before, because I didn't want to come out as a "you're playing it wrong!" kind of modder, but I honestly do not do all the missions against cults, yet I am doing okay financially. Maybe you overinvested?
-
To be honest, going on hunts is VERY profitable. Late game on higher difficulties, a 50 zombie swarm nets a cool 1 million dollars in corpses, if I did my calculations right. Plus, its a pretty good way to train rookies, assuming you have more than a van.
You can also try capturing people for ransom
Speaking of both of these, shouldn't corpses be less, while captives are more? I figured higher ups like black lotus witches would sell for MORE than a zombie corpse....
-
Speaking of both of these, shouldn't corpses be less, while captives are more? I figured higher ups like black lotus witches would sell for MORE than a zombie corpse....
Well... Not necessarily. The earth is full of crazy bitches, while a Zombie is way more interesting to an independent research facility. :P
-
Oh crap. I still have to rely on BlackOps weapons in August 1999.Argh. How often did you stormed UFOs?
Blackops auto-sniper is an ultimate rifle and still in service for me; since it does 60 damage with -25% armour, which is more that enough for every kinetic engagement at this stage of the conflict (haven't seen a single muton, lucky me right?)
Well, I storm every single UFO I manage to find landed. <10 Large&Very Large, >20 Medium&Small. I have this place on the north pole, where they land very often (recky for a new base?). Falls in AOI of both my bases (Egypt & Memphis) and I can catch the traffic on the COMINT.
-
Man, I am in October 1999 and still no lasers... (Except a few alien laser rifles, but they're crap.)
Anyway, regarding the "need to grind to sustain myself"... I haven't said anything before, because I didn't want to come out as a "you're playing it wrong!" kind of modder, but I honestly do not do all the missions against cults, yet I am doing okay financially. Maybe you overinvested?
Alien Lasers aren't that bad, but fall short in comparison to Blackops Auto-Sniper.
What I really like in the old games is that the devs did not put you in the path of one, correct way of playing the game.
At the very beginning I had 3-4 fire teams responding to every possible event (usually 2-3 at the same time), while investing like crazy in research - I built second base just to have the ability to build second HQ/Biolab/IntelCentre, then going into labs.
Yes, I did invest a lot, but I had a lot of money and great monthly scores.
Right now my monthly maintenance is 8M with nations contribution of 6M.
I am doing great financially (7M to spare), but it is a lot of missions.
Not complaining, from what I see it is just that the dev idea was to stay low profile, with small number of researchers and money.
This is a treason to the human race. ;)
What I see agents, is the alien invasion in 4 months and we need to be ready!
More white coats, more Farms, more lasers.
You have been briefed.
:)
-
I think there is one more thing to mention: what you expect from a game to make it interesting. Missions I dislike most are those that provide no challenge; they are just chores to be done.
That's why I designed OXC to not give you trivial missions. Every mission, or most of them, can still be somewhat dangerous if you aren't careful (except monster hunts vs. flying gear, but that's a necessary evil, and flying gear is hard to get while monster hunts are still going on). When you get stronger, simpler missions are usually phased out in favour of more difficult ones. I personally find it satisfying, though obviously I am not a very good candidate for a judge.
-
Well... Not necessarily. The earth is full of crazy bitches, while a Zombie is way more interesting to an independent research facility. :P
So a BL witch is nothing more than a crazy bitch plucked off the street?
.... ....solair, I love your work, but please review your lore : witches are psi trained, higher up, top echelons of the black lotus : They have training, sensitive information, and are MUCH more limited due to the time consuming process to create them
Consider the following : Supply and demand.
Witches : Very limited in supply, since they are supplied (CREATED) in proportion to demand, with training, ect : They are essentially like xcoms commisar officers ; rare, but very important. Thus, losing one would be a big hit, because you need to train another, and you just lost a high rank officer
zombie : VERY common supply, and easy as hell to aquire, for anyone with a few guns and balls. Theres plenty to go around, on a global scale, and its much easier to aquire 100 zombies than 100 witches. They might also have demands, but keep in mind, supply is VERY common, and not exactly difficult to get either. Its much easier for someone, be it a big organization, science institute, or even a common man, to acquire a zombie, then a live cult agent, so I figure it would be less.
Any science institution who could afford 20k could probably afford to pay any merc to bring in a zombie corpse for less, while abducting a LIVING HIGH RANKING OFFICER, of an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CULT, is quite a feat, which should reflect a higher price.
....I think this should apply to all cults, really. Anyone of higher rank should have higher ransom price, at least by some.
And beasts should have a lower sell price, (For corpses...maybe higher for living?) as they really do seem a bit OP. Like I said, a 50 zombie hunt catches a cool 1 million dollars in corpses alone.
-
There is one really important moment about Zombies (and most mutants) - they are the source of valuable bio-plasma required for production of the Healing Gel. I guess it justifies the price of their bodies, dead or living.
-
Thats actually another thing that got me (But I'm going off topic, sorry solair!) : blood plasma sells for 1/20th of the price of a normal corpse.
I forget the sell price of healing gel itself, but it not very big, IIRC. Does it even get more profitable than selling the bodies, when you consider paying the maintenance costs of engineers??
If not, then thats even more worrying : that a labor intensive, and expensive process yields a cheaper item than something essentially readily available.
-
So a BL witch is nothing more than a crazy bitch plucked off the street?
.... ....solair, I love your work, but please review your lore : witches are psi trained, higher up, top echelons of the black lotus : They have training, sensitive information, and are MUCH more limited due to the time consuming process to create them
Yeah, don't take me so seriously... I agree.
But what kind of profit can one make on a BL witch? First of all, she's a person, so you can't just pawn her off to some sort of lab - this isn't Piratez. Secondly, yes, she has some unique abilities, but her psi, while scientifically interesting, isn't exactly useful to a potential "owner".
Witches : Very limited in supply, since they are supplied (CREATED) in proportion to demand, with training, ect : They are essentially like xcoms commisar officers ; rare, but very important. Thus, losing one would be a big hit, because you need to train another, and you just lost a high rank officer (...)
I get what you are saying, but they're not really that rare. Still, 15000 may be a little too low. But I'd have to consider the cost of many, many unit types, so it'll be some work.
And beasts should have a lower sell price, (For corpses...maybe higher for living?) as they really do seem a bit OP. Like I said, a 50 zombie hunt catches a cool 1 million dollars in corpses alone.
Agreed. I guess some repricing may be in order.
I forget the sell price of healing gel itself, but it not very big, IIRC. Does it even get more profitable than selling the bodies, when you consider paying the maintenance costs of engineers??
If not, then thats even more worrying : that a labor intensive, and expensive process yields a cheaper item than something essentially readily available.
Healing gel costs 18000 to produce and 22500 on sale. One standard zombie corpse sells for 20000, which is way too much... Fixing.
-
I'm just comparing to say, the prices of the red dawn faction : 10 k for a ganger, 15 or so for a lad, 20 or so for a sailor, and 30 for a pioneer.... ...shouldn't this be similar for OTHER factions? Because it often isn't
-
I'm just comparing to say, the prices of the red dawn faction : 10 k for a ganger, 15 or so for a lad, 20 or so for a sailor, and 30 for a pioneer.... ...shouldn't this be similar for OTHER factions? Because it often isn't
Indeed, looks like I did it once blindly and never really sat down to evaluate. I'll put it on the list.
-
That's why I designed OXC to not give you trivial missions. Every mission, or most of them, can still be somewhat dangerous if you aren't careful (except monster hunts vs. flying gear, but that's a necessary evil, and flying gear is hard to get while monster hunts are still going on). When you get stronger, simpler missions are usually phased out in favour of more difficult ones. I personally find it satisfying, though obviously I am not a very good candidate for a judge.
Solarius, first off I should tell you that I really like your mod (actually prefer it to the Piratez) and by no means I was criticizing your work, complaining about the chores missions.
I have impression that my agents and organization got strong fast because I was doing every single mission. I also focused strongly on the tactical advantage research (personal armour/lasers).
When you told me that there is a way to get rid of the most of minor missions, that was ok with me. I am not really sure if I want to get rid of spider/zombie missions, since they are a great source of money (500k easy) and training. I know I might be exploiting the system a bit and it is not the way you imagined it, but hey, there are as may ways of playing xcom as many players (and I am the one which always looks to get some advantage, upper hand and better position). It is not a console game like CoD which just drags you through the plot in some interactive cinematic, no reason to try to restrain players into one way of playing. I actually do not like that in new XCom series - too simplistic and restrictive, pushing player through the story.
-
But what kind of profit can one make on a BL witch? First of all, she's a person, so you can't just pawn her off to some sort of lab - this isn't Piratez. Secondly, yes, she has some unique abilities, but her psi, while scientifically interesting, isn't exactly useful to a potential "owner".
Brain dissection/vivisection. Provable ESP/ Psionic combat ability. The U.S. AND Russia had a remote viewing program and the U.S. for sure had a psionics research program that lasted for over a decade where millions of dollars were dumped into it.
Every tin pot dictator and superpower would LOVE to have something to look at and replicate.
food for thought.
-HH
-
Brain dissection/vivisection. Provable ESP/ Psionic combat ability. The U.S. AND Russia had a remote viewing program and the U.S. for sure had a psionics research program that lasted for over a decade where millions of dollars were dumped into it.
Every tin pot dictator and superpower would LOVE to have something to look at and replicate.
That's all true, but in this universe psi users are relatively common, even if secret. So governments generally have access to them - if they are allowed to. ^_^
-
In the recent update you reduced the sell prices of zombie corpses. How about reviewing the sell prices of some animals, corpses and live ones? I'm specifically thinking about thoses you meet in large numbers, like spiders and beetles. I recently had a strange lifeform mission with 50 beetles. I managed to stun them all and got 1.5 mil.
-
In the recent update you reduced the sell prices of zombie corpses. How about reviewing the sell prices of some animals, corpses and live ones? I'm specifically thinking about thoses you meet in large numbers, like spiders and beetles. I recently had a strange lifeform mission with 50 beetles. I managed to stun them all and got 1.5 mil.
It's on my todo list. :P
-
Just something i noticed as far as money making is concerned. You might want to take a look at the economics of ammunition production. I get around 60M/month with ~200 engineers producing and selling HWP rockets. Then again it might not be that far fetched, looking at real life military-industrial companies.
-
Just something i noticed as far as money making is concerned. You might want to take a look at the economics of ammunition production. I get around 60M/month with ~200 engineers producing and selling HWP rockets. Then again it might not be that far fetched, looking at real life military-industrial companies.
The economy is not terribly polished yet, so yes, I expect there are such issues... But hey, you need to make money on something! ;)
-
Just something i noticed as far as money making is concerned. You might want to take a look at the economics of ammunition production. I get around 60M/month with ~200 engineers producing and selling HWP rockets. Then again it might not be that far fetched, looking at real life military-industrial companies.
Thanks for the tip! It seems that just like vanilla XCOM, here you save the world from an alien invasion... While actively making the world more miserable by constantly selling weaponry to dictators and other criminal organizations. ;D
NU-Xcom went a step ahead and had Arabs using plasma rifles as "pacification tools" and the like. No idea if the same joke is used in XCOM2 though.
-
I think there is one more thing to mention: what you expect from a game to make it interesting. Missions I dislike most are those that provide no challenge; they are just chores to be done.
That's why I designed OXC to not give you trivial missions. Every mission, or most of them, can still be somewhat dangerous if you aren't careful (except monster hunts vs. flying gear, but that's a necessary evil, and flying gear is hard to get while monster hunts are still going on). When you get stronger, simpler missions are usually phased out in favour of more difficult ones. I personally find it satisfying, though obviously I am not a very good candidate for a judge.
Agree on that! Expecially these mission when you pose like a surfer (cannot remember name) and you have knives only :o :o :o and "trouble on sky resort" where actually things are a bit better since you may use sporting rifles...provided you bought them before unlike me...AARRGGHH ;D
-
Seconded.
I actually want to cut down on the classic moneymaking, in favour of treasure hunting. As well as some alternate paths where you can produce for cash OR sell the patent to someone else (like M.A.G.M.A.) and buy the end product from them for way less than you'd pay to make it yourself (because mass production).
How about selling patents for monthly income?
Although personally I prefer the classic making of medkits or alloys :) (or anything that doesn't consume elerium)
-
How about selling patents for monthly income?
How would that work?
Although personally I prefer the classic making of medkits or alloys :) (or anything that doesn't consume elerium)
Some manufacturing for profits is OK, I just want to eliminate the most pornographic projects. ;)
-
Couldn't patents potentially work via a HUGE point bonus to the month, increasing income, like 10k points?...it would also make you impervious to failure that month, which may provide balance issues, but honestly its a possibility, and would simulate a massive monthly bonus...
Honestly I like the idea of xcom being contracted in later months for selective contracts perhaps. Maybe a duel interaction between following a lead, and doing a job for cash, similar to what exists for magma labs.
Can research create items, or just research? I think research, using the give 1 random might work if it can give items, but you would have scientists involved and not engineers. Could then have manufacturing with several possible failures involved, so its a bit more involved making a profit than set and forget.
-
Couldn't patents potentially work via a HUGE point bonus to the month, increasing income, like 10k points?...it would also make you impervious to failure that month, which may provide balance issues, but honestly its a possibility, and would simulate a massive monthly bonus...
Unfortunately in X-Com Files you don't get money bonuses from points.
Honestly I like the idea of xcom being contracted in later months for selective contracts perhaps. Maybe a duel interaction between following a lead, and doing a job for cash, similar to what exists for magma labs.
Well, more paid missions would be okay. I keep adding stuff all the time, so it is a rational expectation.
Can research create items, or just research? I think research, using the give 1 random might work if it can give items, but you would have scientists involved and not engineers. Could then have manufacturing with several possible failures involved, so its a bit more involved making a profit than set and forget.
I think research can produce an item now, but even so, you can only do a given research once.
-
How about selling patents for monthly income?
How would that work?
You've already implemented disclosing information to MAGMA(?) as a research project. So, selling a patent could be another research project (with minimum man-hour price) that increases your monthly income.
If the total monthly payment has to be equal to the sum of countries' contributions, the patent price can be evenly distributed between the funding countries. Alternatively, the payment can be added to the monthly funding by the country where the company is based (e.g. Russia for MAGMA).
When a country is infiltrated and quits X-COM, there may be something like:
1. For distributed funding, the monthly payments can be recalculated. Will the engine allow it?
2. For distributed funding, if recalculation is impossible, then "Alien Infiltration" description should say that when a country quits the project, it freezes or confiscates X-COM financial assets it was handling.
3. For funding through a single country, "Alien Infiltration" description may say the same about freezing/confiscating or something about a ban for companies on dealing with X-COM.
4. Or cessation of funding may mean cutting all funding except royalties. Can the engine do that?
I think research can produce an item now, but even so, you can only do a given research once.
But if you research a set of identical items, you can repeat the research until you run out of items.
-
I think little of this is doable at all.
And even if it was, what would it accomplish? It sounds like a lot of work for... I'm not sure what purpose. This is a tactical combat game with conspiracy/mystery fluff, why would a player care about this? It's not a diplomacy game and adding diplomacy to it would be a huge undertaking, and in my opinion it wouldn't enhance the experience in any way.
M.A.G.M.A. and BlackOps deals are a different thing, since it affects mission generation and weapon selection.
-
It's another source of income different from score-based funding, mission loot or manufacture. You said you wanted something else and I described how I imagine it. I still prefer workshops, because money bags are too few and far between :)
-
It's another source of income different from score-based funding, mission loot or manufacture. You said you wanted something else and I described how I imagine it. I still prefer workshops, because money bags are too few and far between :)
Well, it all depends on the balance. For now I just don't think we need more money sources. If the practice says otherwise, we'll worry about it.
Still, most of these ideas just aren't doable at the moment.