OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Hobbes on August 04, 2016, 04:33:24 am

Title: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 04, 2016, 04:33:24 am
Anyone considered developing a total conversion based on the Terminator series?

The scenario would be the war between humans and machines after Judgement Day until Skynet's defeat by the resistance. The player would be in charge of Tech-Com, and would contain the advance of Skynet throughout the world while researching techs to defeat the machines, and assume the role of John Connor or Connor could just be in the background story.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on August 06, 2016, 02:36:08 am
(https://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/thumbsup.jpg)

Seriously though, great idea; I wonder if, unlike myself, anyone with actual ability to realize this would also be interested in this concept...
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 10, 2016, 01:33:32 am
Seriously though, great idea; I wonder if, unlike myself, anyone with actual ability to realize this would also be interested in this concept...

I've already been doing some conceptualizing of the storyline/missions and it could fit well with the mechanics of the original game. It would take some serious work for some months but on the technical side it seems possible. My main issue though regards sprites: while there is enough content available to replace the original game's sprites, it would be necessary to design the terminator units, the background pictures, etc., and that I'm not qualified.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 11, 2016, 01:30:03 am
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/screen162.png)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 24, 2016, 06:53:19 pm
Since this idea has gotten a little more traction, with chaosshade currently designing the weapons with the help of IvanDogovich, I'm going to describe my view of the strategic layer and the changes to Geoscape.

Storyline/Setting
* The game starts around 2027, almost 20 years after Judgment Day. After starting a nuclear war that cost 3 billion deaths both in the missiles strikes and the aftermath, Skynet initially took a low profile while gathering resources and securing the area around Cheyenne Mountain and the automated factories and armories still intact but not under its control. For most of those years humankind was mostly ignorant of the AI and its role on the apocalypse since it was more busy trying to survive.
* But as Skynet started expanding its genocidal campaign, the human survivors quickly learned how to survive or die. Resistance groups started appearing throughout the planet, living in the ruins of the bombed cities and trying to defend themselves against the Hunter-Killers and terminators sent by Skynet to hunt them. As the rate of the machine incursions kept increasing, so did the efforts of the human fighters, who started communicating between themselves and coordinating guerrilla attacks against Skynet.
* Eventually, the several resistance groups decide to unify their efforts at the insistence of one of their leaders, John Connor. Connor also successfully convinces the other human leaders that the Resistance requires a special unit assigned specifically to defeat Skynet through other means than guerrilla warfare, a strategy which is barely containing the machine advance despite the tremendous human effort and casualties.
* Regarding the Terminator series, this project takes place before any of the movies, i.e., Skynet hasn't sent any terminator to the past yet. The T-800 hasn't also been deployed yet against the resistance.

Geoscape
* All countries are gone and have been replaced by geographical 'sectors', each assigned to a Resistance group. Inside each sector the cities have been replaced by Resistance 'camps/cells'
* Sectors can be infiltrated, on which case Tech-Com loses all logistical support from that sector, and eventually from all sectors present in the region
* Camps/cells can be attacked by the machines, in which Tech-Com may chose to help the resistance fighters defending the camp (although there will be no penalty for despawning, unlike terror sites)
* Skynet will also conduct Pacification/Reclamation missions, where there will always be civilians present
* Skynet's Core (HQ) is a base located at Cheyenne Mountain, North America. While it will be possible to assault this base right from game start by placing the starting base on this region, there are several reasons to discourage the player from doing so:
** It will not be the site of the final mission (although it will be a step to win)
** It will be an impossible mission to win with the starting weapons
** From game start Skynet's Core generates 'Termination' missions, which are the equivalent of Retaliation missions and have a 6% chance of being generated each day, and it usually only takes up to 3 weeks for any Tech-Com base in North America to be attacked. Plus, there are other reasons why placing your initial base in North America will be a bad decision.

(to be continued...)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: niculinux [RETIRED/QUIT] on August 24, 2016, 07:13:30 pm
(https://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/thumbsup.jpg)

Seriously though, great idea; I wonder if, unlike myself, anyone with actual ability to realize this would also be interested in this concept...

I quote, sadly! @Hobbes, some other screenshots would "stimulate"?
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: ivandogovich on August 24, 2016, 08:02:17 pm
I quote, sadly! @Hobbes, some other screenshots would "stimulate"?

Silly preview of some of the weapon sprites in draft form.

(https://i.imgur.com/gqlBnDX.png)

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4798.0;attach=23579)

Edit: Current versions are here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3LA7DXD41YYbGlHTlFVcFVzWTg&usp=sharing
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: davide on August 25, 2016, 11:35:19 am
(https://www.bookandnegative.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cameronTSCC.jpg)

+100
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: yrizoud on August 25, 2016, 02:56:11 pm
As reference, here are the weapons of the games Terminator:Future shock and Terminator:SkyNET
(https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/terminator/images/5/50/Future_Shock-SkyNET_weapons_list.png/revision/latest?cb=20130925100958)
I have fond memories of these games, but I have to admit the weapons don't match the Terminator "lore".
https://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_weaponry
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: davide on August 25, 2016, 09:32:36 pm
An other idea could be the serie Falling Skies.
https://www.wired.com/2011/06/falling-skies/ (https://www.wired.com/2011/06/falling-skies/)
There is a game too
https://store.steampowered.com/app/290410/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/290410/)

Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 19, 2016, 03:23:29 am
* Regarding the Terminator series, this project takes place before any of the movies, i.e., Skynet hasn't sent any terminator to the past yet.

The original, original, original timeline.  ;D

I did find some interesting tidbits on the Terminator series from the original novelizations for T1 and T2, plus the script treatments for T1:

Terminator 1 Novelization:

Quote
Reese was still spinning on the barstool, his coat snapping back, the Remington coming up into both hands, when Terminator drew the .45 automatic. He had moved fast. So very fast. Faster than Reese had expected. Is he a seven hundred or an eight hundred. Reese hoped he was a seven.

---

Terminator hit the floor like a building falling into the street. He lay very still on the polished tile. Unmoving. Not even a twitch. The front of his jacket was a shredded field of perfectly tight little patterns of holes, each of them oozing crimson, which rapidly soaked the front of his jacket. He looked very dead.  He must have been a seven hundred,  Reese thought to himself.

----

He pulled the dead girl off and took Sarah’s hand. She shrank away from him like a terrified animal. Then Reese glanced out the front window and realized things were  worse than bad—it wasn’t a seven hundred. Quickly, he kneeled down beside Sarah and took hold of her arm. His voice was full of urgency. “Come with me if you want to live,” he said.

------

“The six hundred series had rubber skin. We nailed them easy. But the eight hundreds are new. They look human. Sweat, bad breath, everything. Touch it, you’d feel warmth. But by then you’d already be dead. Very hard to spot."

---

“So. You’re a soldier,” Silberman said with a smile of victory. “Fighting for whom?”

“With the one thirty-second under Perry. From ‘21 to ‘27.”

...

“Yes,” he replied. “Up to the end of the Oregon and New Mexico offensives. Then assigned Recon/Security, last two years, under John Connor."

..........

“All over the cyborg’s body there were bruises and abrasions, some of the latter putrid with gangrene. The circulatory system had been shut down when the tiny pneumatic pump that maintained pressure had been obliterated by a twelve-gauge projectile.”

............

“Where a man’s heart would be, shielded in a case-hardened subassembly inside the hyperalloy torso, was the nuclear-energy cell. It supplied power to run the most sophisticated system of hydraulic actuators and servo-motors ever constructed, enough power to run the lights of a small city for a day. It was designed to last Terminator considerably longer, especially if intense activity was varied with conservation procedures.
...
 Terminator could keep operating at full power for twenty-four hours a day for 1,095 days
...
With conditions like those so far encountered on this mission, Terminator could operate indefinitely, plow through all opposition, and complete the target elimination, then stagger programless through the nuclear devastation caused by Skynet and walk up to its machine masters to be programmed anew.”

Terminator July 1982 Treatment Script

Quote
"It's called a cyborg really.

Cybernetic organism.

A
 machine put together with a living thing.

The skin, and
 some layers under it, the hair, the surface of the eyes,
 and the inside of the mouth... all that stuff's human
tissue, genetically designed for the cyborgs. But
 underneath it's all steel and titanium.  Hydraulic
 actuators instead of muscles.  Controlled by a
microcomputer.  It has to eat and breathe to keep the skin
alive, though a lot less than us... and there's a little
tiny heart and internal organs about the size of a
chicken's in a recessed compartment."


"This is insane."


"Yeah, tell me about it.  See, it sweats and has bad
breath and feels totally human, so it can infiltrate real
 well.  I mean, they still used the 600 Series Hunter-
Killers and the other 'roach patrol' machines but..."

............

According to Reese, due to loss of records during the
nuclear devastation, little information about the mother
of John Connor was available to the computer: only her
 name, age, and the city in which she lived up until 1982,
 after which she was known to have gone into hiding.


There was only one piece of information which would have
allowed the cyborg to identify her positively.


In Reese's future, Sarah Connor is known to have died in a
 raid at the age of 36 and been routinely autopsied by the
disposal machines.

This revealed to the computer the two
steel screws set in her tibia for a compound fracture
suffered in a figure skating accident in her teens.

So it appears that in the original, original timeline, you had:

T-600: Rubber Skinned Infiltrators.

T-700: Early Cloned Flesh Infiltrators. Easily destroyed with projectile weapons.

T-800: Late Cloned Flesh Infiltrators, hard to destroy.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 19, 2016, 06:51:48 pm
The original, original, original timeline.  ;D

I did find some interesting tidbits on the Terminator series from the original novelizations for T1 and T2, plus the script treatments for T1:

So it appears that in the original, original timeline, you had:

T-600: Rubber Skinned Infiltrators.

T-700: Early Cloned Flesh Infiltrators. Easily destroyed with projectile weapons.

T-800: Late Cloned Flesh Infiltrators, hard to destroy.

Thanks for the tidbits :) I had already known about the existence of the T1/T2 novelizations and movie scripts since they're cited on the Terminator Wikia and the Terminator AD2029 website (https://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/) (both excellent resources for fans if you don't know them already) but I haven't read them already.

The issue with using the 'original' Terminator models is that they might not be compatible with whatever the mod will require for balanced gameplay. This was already seen with the weapons that chaosshade is developing. But then again this assumes that the units/weapons will following something closer to UFO Defense regarding the difficulty curve.

In any case, when I think of the 'original timeline it's more like the setting of the first movie:
* Sarah Connor meets John's father and gives birth to him
* On 1997 Skynet becomes self-conscious and starts Judgment Day. Sarah and John survive the nuclear exchange and Sarah teaches John how to survive, including fighting against the machines
* John is captured by Skynet and sent to a death camp where he manages to organize a successful revolt and escape from the camp
* John connects with other groups fighting the machines and the Resistance is born. Eventually in one of the raids against the work camps John liberates Kyle Reese, and then for whatever reason gives him Sarah's pic
* Eventually the Resistance manages to blown Skynet's core and win the war but then they discover the temporal displacement device where the first Terminator has been sent to the events of T1
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 20, 2016, 10:41:32 pm
The issue with using the 'original' Terminator models is that they might not be compatible with whatever the mod will require for balanced gameplay.

I agree that having the T-700 series is a bit of a stretch as it only shows up in the T1 novelization; but the difference between the T-600 and T-800 is pretty big in all the known materiel -- e.g. in Salvation, the T-600s can be killed with conventional weapons; but when the T-800 prototype shows up, it takes all sorts of firepower and shrugs it off.

I think you could keep "balanced gameplay" and fit in with the "XCOM" style format of research, by having the game start just a little bit before the AGE OF PLASMA.

I once wrote a writeup on the future war as part of a Salvation: Seven Years On Review:

--------------------------------

Internally, the looks of the movie (Terminator: Salvation) show that it's towards the end of the first phase of the War Against the Machines.

It's kind of hard to elaborate all this in a page or two; but it seems to me that the FUTURE WAR [tm] itself would logically go through multiple phases -- some possible ones being:

PHASE ZERO - THE ORGANIZING:

The immediate post-nuclear aftermath. John Connor is in Crystal Peak, helping organize survivors in his immediate area and maybe across the country through the facilities available there. Both sides (Skynet and Humanity) are recovering from the nuclear war -- Skynet's big problem is that the industrial facilities that it needs (prototype automated factories under USAF contract) are inconviently located near human population centers; and would be heavily damaged in any credible exchange.

Nobody other than John Connor and Katherine Brewster actually know about Skynet (except maybe a few USAF officers and scientists off-site who may have survived Judgement day.

Skynet itself would also be in a very weak position -- it only has very primitive Generation 0 Terminators from T3 (T-1 and the mini hunter killer) and maybe a few other experimental pieces of USAF equipment to help it. Being able to control every computer device in the world does you no good when about 60% of them got vaporized in Judgement day and the rest have no power.

What it does have is control over the few remaining comms nodes still active in the world. So it could "use" human survivors for it's own ends. Send out fake orders and comms calls to various survivor groups and have those survivor groups do missions for Skynet while it slowly readies it's automated forces.

"This is the acting president of the united states to anyone still alive in the San Bernando Valley."

"12315th Military Police Company here, sir."

"Son, we need you to get something for us. We need

John Connor might even have done a few missions for Skynet himself without realizing it -- because even though he controls a key communications node, he's still very junior in rank at this time -- meaning he would have to defer to the surviving military officers.

Phase Zero would end with Skynet showing it's cards and revealing itself through various actions to be basically what John Connor said.

PHASE ONE - THE WAR OF BULLETS:

Salvation appears to take place at the very end of this phase. During this phase, Skynet and Humanity are largely using plausible extrapolations of real world technology:

Simple Non Human Terminators like the "Hydrobot" robot eel.
Derivatives of existing technology like the Moto-Terminators.
Advanced Generation 0+ stuff like the sleeker looking T-1s seen in two scenes.
T-600s (possible to build these, just look at Boston Dynamics' stuff today)

They're also all built using slightly more advanced extrapolations of modern technology -- for example, John Connor is able to easily defeat T-600s at point blank range with 7.62mm small arms (helicopter door machine gun), the bullets puncturing the T-600's casing and deadening it -- something I find plausible, because 5.56mm M995 AP can penetrate 12mm RHA at 100m; while 7.62mm M993 AP can penetrate 15mm RHA at 300m.

Additionally, Skynet doesn't have complete control of Earth yet.

The Resistance is able to contest the skies in limited amounts (A-10s), and has a small amount of surviving aerial hardware (C-130s, CV-22s, etc) in addition to (sigh) the Virginia SSN that acts as Resistance HQ.

There are also scattered bands of survivors (Gas station survivors) who think that Skynet might leave them alone if they don't make too much of a fuss.

There has to be a reason for this belief.

What I think Salvation is about is the transition between Phase 1 and Phase 2.

PHASE TWO: THE WAR OF PLASMA

Skynet starts deploying increasingly advanced magitech, like hyperalloy terminators (the T-800 prototype seen in this one took repeated small arms hits at virtually point blank range with no damage), cloned flesh coverings (again, T-800 prototype), advanced power generation (the nuclear fusion batteries for the T-8xx series) and eventually man portable energy weapons.

Using all of these technologies applied to its stable of machines (bipedal terminators, tank terminators, and hunter killers), Skynet drives the Resistance from the skies and surface in a hail of firepower, starting the road to the familiar "future war" that we see in T1/T2 where the resistance moves slowly under cover of darkness.

Additionally, Skynet would have finally felt that it had enough capability to simply start exterminating people left and right instead of using them as production labor or ignoring them -- before the development of compact nuclear fuel cells or fusion reactors, it was too cost ineffective (efficiency wise) to send out HKs and combat units on roving search and destroy missions to eliminate human survivors -- if it costs 'X' tonnes of jet fuel to get 1~ human kill in a forest via aerial HK surveys...Skynet won't do that; causing a false belief amongst the hiding survivors that Skynet won't do anything to them if they don't make any problems.

But once Skynet has near unlimited energy...
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 21, 2016, 02:04:23 am
I think you could keep "balanced gameplay" and fit in with the "XCOM" style format of research, by having the game start just a little bit before the AGE OF PLASMA.

I once wrote a writeup on the future war as part of a Salvation: Seven Years On Review

Thanks for the writeup - very interesting read :)

I completely agree with you with the starting date being right before Skynet starts deploying Plasma weapons (and the Resistance getting their hands on them and using them too after research)

On Phase 0 it might not be Crystal Peak where John Connor starts - the issue here is how much T3/TS already diverge from the original timeline so on the pre T1/T2 timeline he might be in Mexico or LA or elsewhere when Judgment Day happens. Similarly, on the pre-T1/T2 universe the internet might not be so widespread when Judgment Day happens in 1997 (email for most more of a curiosity back then than the necessity it is on the T3 timeline). But this is nitpicking since as long as the storyline is coherent with the date set for Judgment Day (1997, 2017, etc.)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 22, 2016, 12:20:04 am
But this is nitpicking since as long as the storyline is coherent with the date set for Judgment Day (1997, 2017, etc.)

That's always been a problem with licensed terminator stuff -- SM Stirling wrote some Terminator novels in the nineties where Skynet literally starts on J-Day with knockoff T-800s -- let's not get into the comics.

In Terminator 2 (both the scripts and novelization) there's additional J-Day and future war details:

The original 10 May 1990 draft contained an extended future
 war scene that not only addressed the defeat of Skynet
and the backstory of how Reese and the Terminator went
back through time as mentioned in the first film, but also
the backstory of the second film on how the second
 Terminator was sent through.  Cut from the script after
the first draft, the scene -- although rich in action and
 resonance to the first film and its concepts -- was a
 narrative tangent to the main story of the film and would
have cost an inordinate amount of time, money, and effort
to produce.  This future scene also had the adult John
Connor as its narrator.


Quote
EXT. CITY STREET - DAY
Downtown L.A. Noon on a hot summer day. On an EXTREME LONG LENS the lunchtime crowd stacks up into a wall of humanity. In SLOW MOTION they move in herds among the glittering rows of cars jammed bumper to bumper. Heat ripples distort the torrent of faces. The image is surreal dreamy... and like a dream it begins very slowly to...

DISSOLVE TO:
EXT. CITY RUINS - DAY
Same spot as the last shot, but now it is a frozen landscape in Hell. The cars are stopped in rusted rows, still bumper to bumper. The skyline of buildings beyond has been shattered by some unimaginable force like a row of kicked-down sandcastles. The sky glows, dark as iron.

A freezing wind blows through the desolation, keening with the sound of ten million dead souls. It scurries the snow into drifts, stark white against the charred rubble. Fire and ice. The image is without color... lifeless as the moon.

A TITLE CARD FADES IN:
LOS ANGELES, AUGUST 11, 2029

ANGLE ON a heap of fire-blackened bones. Skulls identify them as human. WE BEGIN TO TRACK, revealing beyond the mound a vast tundra of bones and shattered concrete. Skulls like eyeless sentinels. The rush hour crowds burned down in their tracks. We hear a MAN"S VOICE, gentle, though rich in authority, and tempered by the pain of watching a world die.

MAN (V.O.)
It all came down on a Tuesday in September of '99. Pretty normal day, except for the end of the world part. Somehow, I don't remember how, we started calling it Judgment Day. I was in Argentina that particular Tuesday. A good place to be, considering everything alive north of the equator stopped being alive...

WE DISSOLVE TO a playground... where intense heat has half-melted the jungle gym, the blast has warped the swing set, the merry-go-round has sagged in the firestorm. Small skulls look accusingly from the snow-drifts. WE HEAR the distant echo of children's voices... playing and laughing in the sun. A silly, sing-songy rhyme as WE TRACK SLOWLY over seared asphalt where the faint hieroglyphs of hopscotch lines are still visible.

MAN (V.O.)
Afterward it got cold. Real cold. Nuclear winter they called it. The few that survived, starved...

CAMERA comes to a rest on a burnt and rusted tricycle... next to the tiny skull of its owner. A metal foot crushes the skull like china.

MAN (V.O.)
The few that survived that saw the Machines rise up... machines of many types but with one purpose... to hunt us down and kill us all like a bunch of cockroaches...

TILT UP, revealing a humanoid machine holding a massive battle rifle. It looks like a hydraulically-actuated CHROME SKELETON. A high-tech death figure. It is a combat chassis, the underlying component, or endoskeleton, of a Series 800 Terminator. An antipersonnel weapon controlled by Skynet, a computer which is threatening the human survivors of the war with final extinction.

The endoskeleton's glowing red eyes compassionlessly sweep the dead terrain, hunting. Then suddenly snap toward CAMERA.

ENDOSKELETON POV (DIGITIZED) as it racks a RUNNING FIGURE across the desolate landscape. Through these eyes we see the world as a computer-generated image. Symbols and graphics rapidly appear on the center display as the machine acquires its target.

THE FIGURE, a young boy in rags, is centerpunched by the deadly round. He sprawls to a smoking heap on the blackened sludge.

ANOTHER FIGURE, a guerrilla soldier hefting a battered RPG rocket launcher.

THE ENDOSKELETON turns, too late. The rocket vaporizes the top half of it. Its bottom half takes a few uncertain steps, then topples to the earth.

MAN (V.O.)
Our stubbornness makes no sense to their machine minds. We fight when logic tells us we are beaten. But we have a saying... it's not over 'till its over. It keeps us going. The war against the Machines is in its thirty-first year...

The figure quickly takes cover at the approaching SOUND of ROARING TURBINES. A shadow blackens the sky as a formation of flying HK (Hunter-Killer) patrol machines passes overhead. PAN WITH THEM toward the jagged horizon, beyond which we see flashes, and hear the distant thunder of a pitched battle in progress.

CUT TO:
EXT. BATTLEFIELD - DAY

THE BATTLE. Human troops in desperate combat with the Machines for possession of the dead Earth. The humans are a ragtag guerrilla army, made up mostly of troops from Southern Hemisphere countries... Africans, South Americans, Australians. The survivors of the nuclear war between the Northern Hemisphere super-powers. This is the reality of the post-Apocalyptic world. North of the equator we all die.

We hear radio chatter in Spanish, interspersed with Swahili and other African languages. The occasional Aussie unit can be heard. The humans use RPG launchers, plasma-pulse battle rifles, and home-built armored personnel carriers.

Skynet's weapons consist of the massive ground HKs (tank- like robot weapon-platforms) flying HKs, medium weight four-legged gun-pods called Centurions, the humanoid Terminators in various forms (600, 700, and 800 series), and small, fast-crawling kamikaze units called Silverfish that look like 5' long chrome centipedes. The Silverfish snake into gun emplacements and explode.

SEQUENCE OF RAPID CUTS

Explosions! Beam-weapons firing like searing strobe-lights. Energy bolts crisscrossing frame. Hand-launched Stinger missiles blowing an aerial HK out of the sky. A Sapper team tries to disable a ground HK. They get riddled by its rapidly tracking gun turret.

A TEAM OF GUERRILLAS is being overrun by terminator endoskeletons in the ruins of a building. One by one, the soldiers fall in desperate hand-to-hand combat. One of the terminators looms over a wounded soldier, its battle rifle's barrel swinging down toward the guerrilla's head. The man stares defiantly into his death. Then... Suddenly, amazingly, the terminator stops, freezing in place...

Aerial HKs tilt slowly, out of control, and crash to the ground. All the terminators stand frozen, unmoving, like a bunch of toy soldiers.

The sudden silence takes the humans by surprise. They slowly emerge from their rat-warren emplacements and approach the frozen machines. We hear a voice speaking over a radio headset. It is filled with awed emotion.

HEADSET VOICE (O.S.)
... The Colorado Division confirms that Skynet has been destroyed... The war is over... I repeat, Skynet has been destroyed.

CAMERA TRACKS along the soldiers, bleeding, frostbitten, wrapped in rags... Valley Forge with better weapons.

The wounded soldier in the ruins of the building cautiously approaches the chrome skeleton before him. He pushes against its chest with one finger. It topples with a crash and lies still. The soldier turns to his comrades with an idiot grin. Tears are streaming down his face. A mighty cheer goes up from the men and woman of the Last Army.

INT. TIME DISPLACEMENT COMPLEX - L.A. - LATER

A STAINLESS STEEL ELEVATOR SHAFT, going deep into the bowels of the earth. Tiny figures stand on an open platform which descends rapidly, becoming a speck.

ON THE PLATFORM. An imposing man, surrounded by a team of guerrilla officers stands on the platform as it descends. He is JOHN CONNOR. Forty-five years old. Chiseled. Stern. The left side of his face is heavily scarred. An impressive man, and clearly one forged in the furnace of a lifetime of war. The voice we heard continues now.

CONNOR (V.O.) My name is Connor. It's my job to lead these people. My mother, Sarah, gave me the job... and she's not exactly someone you say "no" to. I wish to God I had. I've sent thousands to their deaths. But let me tell you about death in this world. We piss on the bones of a billion people. Death's not what it used to be. If there is a God, his love and 45 cents will buy you coffee...

The platform reached its destination. Connor and the officers step off. Begin moving down a long corridor.

INT. CORRIDOR

This place was designed by machines for machines. The architecture is alien, without aesthetics, without even such human basics as doorknobs and lights. Connor leads the team past more frozen terminator endoskeletons, deactivated like the ones on the surface.

CONNOR (V.O.)
All these machines were controlled by a kind of God, a low-rent self- appointed God called Skynet. Skynet was a supercomputer built for strategic defense back in the Nineties. Today we destroyed it in its fortress in the Colorado Rockies, and all its toys stopped...

As they continue on, they pass other teams of guerrilla soldiers.

CONNOR (V.O.)
This place is one of Skynet's toys. A machine built by machines. It is like nothing which has ever existed before... the first tactical time weapon. Before today, no human had seen this place, but I've been here in my dreams many times. All my life I've tried to imagine what it would look like. Now I'm actually here...

INT. TIME DISPLACEMENT CHAMBER
Vault-like doors open. Connor strides through with authority and purpose. He is saluted smartly by everyone he encounters, though he wears no insignia of rank.

There is a bustle of hurried activity here. The chamber is the size of a high-school gym and consist totally of machine surfaces. Nothing in the design makes any sense. We can't tell what anything does. It is a technology we cannot imagine.

CONNOR (V.O.)
Skynet, being almost infinitely smart, was also infinitely tricky. It knew it was losing, so it thought of a way to rig the game...

Technicians have pulled up floor panels and tapped directly into cabling of the machine, using portable terminals that they have wheeled in. Many of the soldiers in this war against machines are technical specialists... you have to fight fire with fire.

CONNOR (V.O.)
And now, though we've won the war, there is still one battle left to fight. The most important one. It will be fought in the past, almost four decades ago... before all this began... See, the only problem with time travel is... it ain't over even when it's over.

At the far end of the room, a young soldier stands surrounded by a team of technicians. KYLE REESE.
Sarah Connor's defender, teacher, and lover in the first film. A simple soldier who is about to walk point-blank into the gaping maw of history. At the moment, he is the center of activity. As he finishes stripping off his battle uniform, the techs begin smearing his body with a conductive so the time-field will follow his outline.

Reese looks around at all the activity. Battle and the prospect of death have never scared him. But the importance of what he is about to do terrifies him.

The techs move aside and suddenly John Connor is standing beside him. Connor... their grim messiah. Their leader. He fixes Reese with an intense gaze. There is so much he wants to say, but cannot bring himself to. Finally Reese speaks.

REESE
Did you know I'd be the one who volunteered?

Connor nods.

CONNOR
I've always known. Sarah told me.

Reese nods. Suddenly understanding everything.

REESE
That's why you moved me to your unit? Kept me so close.

Connor shrugs enigmatically. One of the techs interrupts them

TECH
We're ready, Sergeant.

THREE ENORMOUS CHROME RINGS, one inside the other, are suspended in a circular hole in the center of the room's floor. John and Reese approach them.

Reese steps onto the first ring. It bobs under his weight. We see that the rings are freely floating in a magnetic field. Reese steps to the inner ring and looks into the hole. A vast echoing darkness below. He looks back at John. The messiah is waiting for him to step into the bottomless pit.

CONNOR
Sometimes you have to put your faith in the machine.

Reese takes a breath, then steps into open space and is buoyed up by an unseen field of force. He floats in the middle of the rings. The techs start the time displacement sequence.

THE RINGS BEGIN TO MOVE, slowly rotating around each other on different axis like some complex gyroscope.

THE FLOOR BEGINS TO SPLIT OPEN, like wedges in a pie which begin to pull back from the center. The rings are spinning faster now, suspended in space in the middle of the receding floor wedges. The rings begin to descend.

JOHN AND REESE LOCK EYES as they move apart. Reese is dropping into an unbelievably vast circular space... the time-field generator. John watches him go, until Reese is a tiny figure. The rings are spinning so rapidly now they almost disappear, becoming a sphere of whirling steel. Technicians pull John back from the edge.

LIGHTNING BEGINS TO ARC across the vast room below. A huge charge of energy is building up. Everyone takes cover behind blast walls they have set up. They put on goggles like they used to do at A-bomb tests. This is going to be big.

The chamber below has become a Hell of energy with Reese at its center. The drone and crackle of the machines builds to thunder, there is a BLINDING FLASH OF LIGHT!

When the glare fades the floating rings are empty. They slow to a stop, seared and smoking. Reese is gone.

FUENTES, one of the officers, turns to Connor.

FUENTES
Now what happens to Reese? I mean, what did happen?

Connor's gaze seems far away from this time and place.

CONNOR
He accomplishes his mission and in doing so, he dies.

FUENTES
He is a good soldier.

Connor solemnly nods.

CONNOR
Yes... He's also my father.

FUENTES
Mother of God!

Fuentes stares at Conner in amazement. He has just been given a glimpse into his leader's private Hell. Connor turns from the smoking chamber. He seems suddenly ten years old as his features drain of strength, shoulders sagging. Fuentes shouts an order to a waiting Sapper team.

FUENTES
Sapper team. Set your charges. Let's blow this place back to Hell.

Connor shakes his head no. Mustering his strength.

CONNOR
Not yet. There's one more thing we have to do.

TIGHT ON MASSIVE DOORS OF STEEL, covered with a thin sheet of ice. Locking bolts slam back. Ice shatters like glass as the doors begin to open. We are in--

INT. COLD STORAGE FACILITY

Connor walks into the darkness, followed by a few technicians. They are in a vault-like cold-storage room. Hanging in steel racks from ceiling tracks are hundreds of what appear to be men. They are in rows of ten. Within each row, each of the bodies are absolutely identical.

Connor signals the techs to remain by the door and walks out among the dark bodies. They are UNACTIVATED TERMINATORS. He stops at a row in which they are identical to the terminator which was sent to kill Sarah (the Arnold model).

He walks to the end of the row. There is one empty rack. He faces the terminator in the next rack. Its eyes are closed. John seems distant as he studies that face. Fuentes enters the chamber, pushing past the technicians. Calls for his leader in the darkness.

FUENTES
John?... John?...

TIGHT ON CONNOR, his face pensive as Fuentes calls his name. Fuentes voice slowly dissolves to ANOTHER VOICE. A woman's. Echoing as though from a great distance...

CUT TO:
This audio transition takes us directly to the scene of young John Connor in the Voights' garage in the present- day.

The T2 Novelization has some extended battle scenes showing how an infiltrator unit might work in combat:

Quote
A man stepped out of the shadows. “Let me help you,” he said calmly, and reached for the grenade-launcher. Cowan instinctively knew something was wrong. The stranger was wearing the guerrilla armband, all right, but it was last week’s color.

and the two final battles:

Quote
Today, there were battles against Skynet’s forces all over the world. But the two most important ones were happening in Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado, where Skynet’s mainframe was housed. The other was here, in the Westside, where the real prize was; the site of Skynet’s second largest and most guarded underground complexes. The vast conclave was encircled with a lethal concentration of defensive machines. In the last two days, human casualties had been very high. But John knew that eventually they would win. They now had the firepower, and more importantly, the will.

..

Quote
They didn’t just walk in. Although the mainframe computer in Colorado had been destroyed, there were hundreds of autonomous terminators not under direct link command, still free to seek out human targets, and eliminate them.

Their internal power cells would keep them lethal for over a hundred years. John realized that the casualties would continue to mount, even after the war was won, until all the terminators could be eliminated.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2016, 02:37:55 am
That's always been a problem with licensed terminator stuff -- SM Stirling wrote some Terminator novels in the nineties where Skynet literally starts on J-Day with knockoff T-800s -- let's not get into the comics.

I think I have a few Terminator novels or comic books somewhere on my bookstand but I haven't touched them yet. I remember I have the one set in Russia where former Spetznaz special forces are fighting the Russian equivalent of Skynet during the war. Like you say, novels and other non-movie media can have problems.

Quote
The original 10 May 1990 draft contained an extended future
 war scene that not only addressed the defeat of Skynet
and the backstory of how Reese and the Terminator went
back through time as mentioned in the first film, but also
the backstory of the second film on how the second
 Terminator was sent through.  Cut from the script after
the first draft, the scene -- although rich in action and
 resonance to the first film and its concepts -- was a
 narrative tangent to the main story of the film and would
have cost an inordinate amount of time, money, and effort
to produce.  This future scene also had the adult John
Connor as its narrator.

The future war scene script was a very interesting read, thanks. My issue with the T1/T2 storyline when applied to a mod would be that John Connor would know a lot of information about Skynet from Sarah, specially the part concerning time travel, and how would that affect gameplay?
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 22, 2016, 03:15:46 am
Quote
My issue with the T1/T2 storyline when applied to a mod would be that John Connor would know a lot of information about Skynet from Sarah, specially the part concerning time travel, and how would that affect gameplay?

My big problem with the whole "John Connor knows everything through Sarah Connor" idea is that Sarah was with Kyle Reese for only about maybe 72 hours tops. That's not a lot of time for her to absorb everything; and Kyle is an imperfect narrator; he'd only be able to tell her what he knows.

Kyle would however be able to tell her key bits of facts:

Rough introductory dates for significant Skynet advances in technology.

Where the Skynet Central Core is + Time Machine R&D base.

Which human offensives were significant catastrophes.

Translated in game terms; a player starting with the T1/T2 mod would know right away:

TERMINATOR ENDGAME: You need to blow up NORAD and also seize the time machine base; it would be like having the "Cydonia or bust" UFOPaedia unlocked from the start.

You would have advanced warning (maybe a triggered UFOPedia entry) that shows up about a month or so before the AI introduces new units/weapons (the WAR OF PLASMA).
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 22, 2016, 03:21:17 am
The future war scene script was a very interesting read, thanks.

There's a scene in the T2 novelization that hints at mission types for a mod -- this happened circa 2010~ in the T1/T2 timeline.

Quote
But when he was in his mid-twenties, a personal tragedy caused him to withdraw even more into that gray prison of responsibility that had always been his.

Fuentes had brought him the news. John had been crouched in a blasthole crater, giving final instructions to a squad of soldiers still in their teens. They were bright, eager, and dispensable.

They would all later die in a diversionary battle that would lead to a major victory. As he watched them snake out into the moonlit ruins, Fuentes turned to John, struggling to remain calm as he gave his nightly field report.

The supply convoy from Mexico had been ambushed by a squad of HKs. There were no survivors. John had listened, then only nodded. After all, this was simply one more defeat in a war filled with them. The supplies were important, but there were backups the army could use. And John had steeled himself to loss over the years. People were always dying in this war. Like the squad of teenagers John had just sent out on patrol. Even the horror of death could become routine if it happened often enough. All this Fuentes knew. And in normal circumstances, Fuentes would not have found John’s reaction strange.

When he wasn’t needed, the general would often go off by himself to brood, especially after he had ordered hundreds of men into hopeless battle, just to buy time to build the army. But he would get over it quickly, eager to continue the struggle, driven by a certainty of their eventual victory. The loss of lives was necessary to achieve that victory. But Fuentes also knew what John knew.... Sarah Connor had been leading that convoy.

She had been ordered out of the action, but Sarah went her own way, and few people had the rank or the balls to stop her. Even John was in awe of her. Not only was she a superb combat soldier, she was also an expert tactician. But sooner or later, even the best soldier can be overwhelmed by superior firepower. As in this case. So Fuentes found it strange that John simply nodded when he told him his mother was dead.

When the news became common knowledge, people who only knew and respected her by reputation would be weeping. Sarah Connor had been almost as legendary as her son. But all John did was thank Fuentes for the information and stride off. Later, Fuentes walked in on John, bent over his cot, sobbing.

He quietly backed away, not wanting to intrude. It was the only time he had seen the great man cry. Since that time, John had never talked about his mother.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 22, 2016, 03:39:16 am
There's some storyboards floating around of the extended future war scenes:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5336955/terminator-2-storyboards-show-the-destruction-of-skynet/

There's some smaller stuff that could fit as Skynet "HWPs" (Centurion)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2016, 03:56:48 am
TERMINATOR ENDGAME: You need to blow up NORAD and also seize the time machine base; it would be like having the "Cydonia or bust" UFOPaedia unlocked from the start.

Actually... I have already done some thinking about this and the Skynet Core will appear right from the start on Geoscape on the location of Cheyenne Mountain. So the player will be able to assault it right from day 1, however that will be a losing strategy for several reasons - the turrets and terminators at the Core would have plasma weapons right from the start, or the player will require to get some late tech to be able to survive just the LZ. Plus, craft will have a range limited to intraregional rather than interregional, so it would be required to place your starting base in North America. Which is basically a bad move, since North America is the only region that will have HKs running Retaliation missions right from day 1 and from my testing you get usually hit on mid-late January with such a mission.

So, one idea would be for the player to be required to assault Skynet Core and afterwards have to perform a 'Cydonia or Bust' final mission to gain access to the temporal displacement device.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 22, 2016, 04:21:32 am
Actually... I have already done some thinking about this and the Skynet Core will appear right from the start on Geoscape on the location of Cheyenne Mountain.

Makes sense; since by what ?2025? The Resistance should know WHAT skynet is, and WHERE it is.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 22, 2016, 04:26:14 am
So the player will be able to assault it right from day 1, however that will be a losing strategy for several reasons - the turrets and terminators at the Core would have plasma weapons right from the start

It might be worth it designing unique terminators and mobile weapons just for the Skynet Core (and maybe for other Skynet bases), since Skynet would have designed its bases around the needs of Machines, rather than humans -- with the bipedal infiltrators being only a grudging admission that it needs multipurpose generalist units in order to dig out the resistance from it's hidey holes.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 23, 2016, 11:58:36 pm
I've made an attempt at some alt-history in trying to construct a timeline for the original timeline. Here goes:

13 May 1965
Sarah Connor Born (Approximate, based on her being 19 in Terminator 1)

12 November 1982
Yuri Andropov becomes General Secretary of the Soviet Union.

8 May 1984
Sarah Connor sleeps with the man who left a voicemail on her phone in the original T1 (Approximate).  This man is the true biological father of John Connor in all timelines. In all timelines, she never really knows her son's true biological father. In later, altered timelines; Kyle Reese becomes John's "spiritual father".

Late 1984
Greg Simmons and Jack Kroll leave Cyber Research Systems (CRS) to found Cyberdyne Corporation. In the Novelization of T1, they're the ones who discover the arm and skull in the factory and hide it from their superiors and found Cyberdyne.

12 February 1985
John Connor born. (Approximate)

Circa 1986   
Cyberdyne wins contract to supply Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) chip subsystems to Northrop.

Late 1987
Miles Bennet Dyson joins Cyberdyne as an engineer on the ATF chip systems.

January 1989
Richard Lugar inaugurated as 41st President. (EDIT: Anyone but HW Bush, because we need to push "Star Wars" all the way to the end, and even with the USSR hanging around post 1992...we need more impetus).

23 April 1991
Northrop-McDonnell Douglas YF-23 announced as winner of ATF Competition.

Mid 1992
Cyberdyne wins contract to supply computer systems for the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization ("Star Wars") Strategic Defense System; which implements ground based and space based defensive and offensive systems. Design of the 4000 series begins.

Late 1992
Miles Bennet Dyson appointed Director of Special Projects to oversee the design of the 4000 series distributed supercomputer.

26 May 1993
Yuri Andropov dies.

9 June 1993
KGB Chairman Vladimir Kryuchkov becomes General Secretary of the Soviet Union.

Circa 1994
Cheyenne Mountain Complex selected as the ground-based command and control node for the SDIO Strategic Defense System.

Early 1995
Construction begins on enlargement of Cheyenne Mountain Complex, effectively tripling it's size to support the SDIO Strategic Defense System.
Cyberdyne has become the largest supplier of computer components to the US Defense Department due to it's F-23 and SDS Contracts.

Late 1995
First Orbital Weapons Station launched into geosynchronous orbit via National Launch System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Launch_System).

Circa 1997
Cheyenne Mountain Complex enlargement completed. Installation of the Cyberdyne 4800C System begins.

Late 1997
SDIO: Strategic Defense System renamed "SKYNET".

Early 1998
24th and Final Orbital Weapons Satellite launched into orbit. SKYNET Orbital Construction Complete.

8 June 1999
SKYNET Ground Based Construction complete with installation of last cabling in Cheyenne Mountain Complex Expansion.

4 August 1999
SKYNET Activated.

Late August 1999
John and Sarah Connor go on vacation to Argentina to visit friends. John is fourteen and a half years old.

29 August 1999
SKYNET Becomes Self Aware at 2:14 AM EDT.
SKYNET launches the weapons under its control at 2:43 AM EDT. (JUDGMENT DAY)

18 July 2003
Kyle Reese Born (Approximate, based on his age being 26 in Terminator 1)

2021
Kyle Reese Assigned to 132d under Perry

2025-2026
SKYNET deploys first experimental prototype T-800 Infiltrators in limited field tests.

2027
Kyle Reese Assigned to Recon/Security under John Connor following the conclusion of the Oregon and New Mexico Offensives.
SKYNET standardizes the T-800 Infiltrator as Standard Issue.

11 July 2029
Terminator 1/2 Future War Finale. John Connor is 45 years old.
   
OUT OF CONTEXT NOTES:   
12 May 1984
Beginning of T1 (Events have not occurred in this timeline)

14 May 1984
End of T1 (Events have not occurred in this timeline)

Circa 1995
Events of T2 (Has Not Occurred in This Timeline)

Circa Sep 1999
On a "Tuesday in September '99" is how John Connor recalls Judgment Day as occurring in the Future War scenes in the original T2 script draft.

T-800 Introduction Notes:
Reese in T1 refers to the T800 Infiltrators as "New", plus he says they can't be made "not for about forty years." This places their introduction to somewhere between 2024 and 2029.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 24, 2016, 01:00:53 am
This timeline is the result of some thoughts by me a bit back:

1.) In the original timeline, Skynet is a Series 4800 supercomputer built by Cyberdyne for SAC-NORAD.

2.) SAC can't exist if the cold war doesn't, so Gorbachev can't take power in 1985, and the continued cold war would spur military development.

There's a nice way to square this with T2's timeline as well!

What if in 1984, when the T-800 starts shooting wildly, he kills a KGB rezident at the night club who was there to meet with a source from the Southern California Aerospace industry?

Said rezident in the original timeline was key to Gorby not being elected in 1985.

So Gorbachev takes power, the cold war ends; and Skynet is saved only from cancellation by the discovery of the chip which significantly accelerated research and made it interesting enough to fund in a peacetime environment.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Stoddard on September 24, 2016, 01:12:34 am
For the cold war to not end and thus ensure the birth of the Skynet, there should be another separate arc of Skynet sending terminators back in time to help with the Soviet economy. Can't see how otherwise the Soviet Union could have survived the 80s.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 24, 2016, 01:51:37 am
Nice work in general, I'll add some suggestions/comments :)

Late 1984
Greg Simmons and Jack Kroll leave Cyber Research Systems (CRS) to found Cyberdyne Corporation. In the Novelization of T1, they're the ones who discover the arm and skull in the factory and hide it from their superiors and found Cyberdyne.

Circa 1986   
Cyberdyne wins contract to supply Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) chip subsystems to Northrop.

It might be a little unusual for a 2 year old start up company to be selected to work on something as important as the ATF program, unless they already had mastered innovative technology that the military really wanted to have on its planes. And any patents or proprietary technologies developed by both engineers for CRS would still belong to their former company, so they would have only 2 years to implement into reality any ideas that CRS wouldn't already possess.

On the other hand, I remember that on T2 the T-800 mentions that stealth bombers are fully automated (either Northrop's entry who won the ATB contest and became the current B-2 Spirit) or Lockheed's competing Senior Peg design), so it might make more sense to use them (although the novelization might specifically mention the ATF). 

For the cold war to not end and thus ensure the birth of the Skynet, there should be another separate arc of Skynet sending terminators back in time to help with the Soviet economy. Can't see how otherwise the Soviet Union could have survived the 80s.

This can be solved with a fictional third oil crisis like those of 1973 and 1979 where global oil prices jumped upwards. One main reason why the Soviet economy was a mess and completely bankrupt at the end of the USSR was because its main source of foreign currency was oil exports and the oil price stabilized in the 1980s, leading to less oil revenues and less foreign currency, which was required to import goods and technology from the West to modernize the Soviet economy.

If the oil prices had stayed at the 70's levels then the USSR would still be able to keep its citizens (and its satellite countries) satisfied. There would be no need for the Soviet leaders to recognize that the system need change (thus Gorbachov would never become General Secretary).
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: HelmetHair on September 24, 2016, 01:56:17 am
Well...

Even if the Soviet Union doesn't exist, their ICBMs do. Let's not forget the Russians have "dead hand" and SKYNET could be the U.S. answer on the same problem of command and control in a nuclear war.

In T2 the cold war was basically over and it was specifically pointed out that it was Russia that was hit not the USSR.

It could be pitched that the US was afraid of another nation wanting to capitalize on the power vacuum and to be certain to remain dominant thus keeping the idea of MAD alive.

The USSR itself wouldn't have to exist, but the "enemy" would... even if emphereal.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 24, 2016, 02:00:08 am
It could be pitched that the US was afraid of another nation wanting to capitalize on the power vacuum and to be certain to remain dominant thus keeping the idea of MAD alive.

Or the US simply wanted to remain as the sole superpower (like it did after the Cold War, whether it wanted or not) or possibly even becoming the world's hegemon.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 24, 2016, 02:01:49 am
Here's my bizarre off the wall theory to try and explain causality and preservation, because SKYNET had the first "throw of the dice" each time and logically should have succeeded with it's 1984 and 1995 attempts; a T-800 or T-1000 would have easily liquidated Sarah or John Connor.

----------

I think in the ORIGINAL timeline, SKYNET is still kind of new to time travel, and hasn't fully explored the theory, application and use of it before Connor smashes it's grid.

So... what I think happened was SKYNET did some short range hops and cache tests:

1.) Sending a T800 back three months to destroy a random resistance outpost to see if the future can be changed. It works, and SKYNET concludes yes, we can change future, and begins further work on the tactical time weapon.

2.) Sending test shots back progressively further, which are nothing but beacons or metallic markers that are later found by SKYNET in the future. Basically, something similar to Back to the Future where Marty says "we will put the keys HERE" and then picks the keys up "but we got to remember to do this in the future".

Essentially, they send little time capsules with internal clocks back to 1996, 1986 etc which are then rediscovered by SKYNET in 2029, with the clocks showing elapsed time since travel = the same amount of time that has passed as the targeted temporal displacement date.

So SKYNET thinks it can move to an operational tactical time weapon.

But before that happens, Connor smashes the defense grid and SKYNET panics, and decides to "roll the dice".

It sends the T-800 Terminator back to 1984, and waits 30 seconds.

No change detected.

???

It starts to panic, and thinks "all my prior time displacement attempts worked, why didn't this one work?"

So it breaks out the T-1000 and sends it back to 1995. It can't send it back to 1984 to assist the T-800 because of limitations in time travel; each time you send something back to a certain point in time, it creates ripples in space time which disrupt the capability of the Temporal Displacement Equipment to successfully rematerialize the space/time within it's field in the past.

These ripples in time, ironically fade with time, but time is something Skynet doesn't have, as it's grid is smashed and Connor is on his way.

So off to 1995.

That doesn't work, and now SKYNET is really panicked. Then...the cruel end as TECH COM blows it's main node in Colorado.

Connor shows up 30 minutes later, and when he sees on the system log of the time machine:

"Terminator sent back to 1984. MISSION: KILL SARAH CONNOR"
"Terminator sent back to 1995. MISSION: KILL JOHN CONNOR"

he panics and sends a volunteer back in time to 1984 right away; and because his TECH COM team was severely depleted in the final offensive, he has to reprogram a T-800.

Finally, he sends back the T-800 and starts the time loop.

Originally:

1984 T-800: Materialized in Marianas Trench. Imploded by immense depth of water at 4 miles deep.
1995 T-1000: Materialized in Solid Rock in San Andreas Fault.
1984 Kyle Reese: Materialized in fire escape. Dies painfully.

as "time"/"universe"/"chaos theory protects itself -- the original tests Skynet did were not big or important enough to provoke a response from the fabric of nature itself -- the Resistance base that was destroyed as a test...would have been destroyed six months later, and was insignificant in the scheme of the universe.

But when Skynet literally started punching the universe hard; the universe punched back. (time displacement spheres going awry)

But then John Connor had to punch the fabric of reality so hard it broke with his attempt to send the T-800 Uncle Bob back through; causing the other attempts to successfully materialize in the past.

Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: HelmetHair on September 24, 2016, 02:21:12 am
Or the US simply wanted to remain as the sole superpower (like it did after the Cold War, whether it wanted or not) or possibly even becoming the world's hegemon.

Yep, better phrasing at what I was digging at.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: HelmetHair on September 24, 2016, 02:29:51 am
Here's my bizarre off the wall theory to try and explain causality and preservation, because SKYNET had the first "throw of the dice" each time and logically should have succeeded with it's 1984 and 1995 attempts; a T-800 or T-1000 would have easily liquidated Sarah or John Connor.

----------

I think in the ORIGINAL timeline, SKYNET is still kind of new to time travel, and hasn't fully explored the theory, application and use of it before Connor smashes it's grid.

So... what I think happened was SKYNET did some short range hops and cache tests:

1.) Sending a T800 back three months to destroy a random resistance outpost to see if the future can be changed. It works, and SKYNET concludes yes, we can change future, and begins further work on the tactical time weapon.

2.) Sending test shots back progressively further, which are nothing but beacons or metallic markers that are later found by SKYNET in the future. Basically, something similar to Back to the Future where Marty says "we will put the keys HERE" and then picks the keys up "but we got to remember to do this in the future".

Essentially, they send little time capsules with internal clocks back to 1996, 1986 etc which are then rediscovered by SKYNET in 2029, with the clocks showing elapsed time since travel = the same amount of time that has passed as the targeted temporal displacement date.

So SKYNET thinks it can move to an operational tactical time weapon.

But before that happens, Connor smashes the defense grid and SKYNET panics, and decides to "roll the dice".

It sends the T-800 Terminator back to 1984, and waits 30 seconds.

No change detected.

???

It starts to panic, and thinks "all my prior time displacement attempts worked, why didn't this one work?"

So it breaks out the T-1000 and sends it back to 1995. It can't send it back to 1984 to assist the T-800 because of limitations in time travel; each time you send something back to a certain point in time, it creates ripples in space time which disrupt the capability of the Temporal Displacement Equipment to successfully rematerialize the space/time within it's field in the past.

These ripples in time, ironically fade with time, but time is something Skynet doesn't have, as it's grid is smashed and Connor is on his way.

So off to 1995.

That doesn't work, and now SKYNET is really panicked. Then...the cruel end as TECH COM blows it's main node in Colorado.

Connor shows up 30 minutes later, and when he sees on the system log of the time machine:

"Terminator sent back to 1984. MISSION: KILL SARAH CONNOR"
"Terminator sent back to 1995. MISSION: KILL JOHN CONNOR"

he panics and sends a volunteer back in time to 1984 right away; and because his TECH COM team was severely depleted in the final offensive, he has to reprogram a T-800.

Finally, he sends back the T-800 and starts the time loop.

Originally:

1984 T-800: Materialized in Marianas Trench. Imploded by immense depth of water at 4 miles deep.
1995 T-1000: Materialized in Solid Rock in San Andreas Fault.
1984 Kyle Reese: Materialized in fire escape. Dies painfully.

as "time"/"universe"/"chaos theory protects itself -- the original tests Skynet did were not big or important enough to provoke a response from the fabric of nature itself -- the Resistance base that was destroyed as a test...would have been destroyed six months later, and was insignificant in the scheme of the universe.

But when Skynet literally started punching the universe hard; the universe punched back. (time displacement spheres going awry)

But then John Connor had to punch the fabric of reality so hard it broke with his attempt to send the T-800 Uncle Bob back through; causing the other attempts to successfully materialize in the past.



or every attempt splits the timeline and sending a terminator back does nothing in the timeline it is split from but helps assure existence in another timeline. So being altruistic to itself but not really itself?

so sending Reese back does nothing because the timeline had already been tampered with and techcom victory is assumed in all timeliness where John exists to become victorious.

hmm... don't know. brain is taking a dump.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on September 24, 2016, 03:04:31 am
Here's my bizarre off the wall theory to try and explain causality and preservation, because SKYNET had the first "throw of the dice" each time and logically should have succeeded with it's 1984 and 1995 attempts; a T-800 or T-1000 would have easily liquidated Sarah or John Connor.

----------

I think in the ORIGINAL timeline, SKYNET is still kind of new to time travel, and hasn't fully explored the theory, application and use of it before Connor smashes it's grid.

So... what I think happened was SKYNET did some short range hops and cache tests:

1.) Sending a T800 back three months to destroy a random resistance outpost to see if the future can be changed. It works, and SKYNET concludes yes, we can change future, and begins further work on the tactical time weapon.

2.) Sending test shots back progressively further, which are nothing but beacons or metallic markers that are later found by SKYNET in the future. Basically, something similar to Back to the Future where Marty says "we will put the keys HERE" and then picks the keys up "but we got to remember to do this in the future".

Essentially, they send little time capsules with internal clocks back to 1996, 1986 etc which are then rediscovered by SKYNET in 2029, with the clocks showing elapsed time since travel = the same amount of time that has passed as the targeted temporal displacement date.

So SKYNET thinks it can move to an operational tactical time weapon.

But before that happens, Connor smashes the defense grid and SKYNET panics, and decides to "roll the dice".

It sends the T-800 Terminator back to 1984, and waits 30 seconds.

No change detected.

???

It starts to panic, and thinks "all my prior time displacement attempts worked, why didn't this one work?"

So it breaks out the T-1000 and sends it back to 1995. It can't send it back to 1984 to assist the T-800 because of limitations in time travel; each time you send something back to a certain point in time, it creates ripples in space time which disrupt the capability of the Temporal Displacement Equipment to successfully rematerialize the space/time within it's field in the past.

These ripples in time, ironically fade with time, but time is something Skynet doesn't have, as it's grid is smashed and Connor is on his way.

So off to 1995.

That doesn't work, and now SKYNET is really panicked. Then...the cruel end as TECH COM blows it's main node in Colorado.

Connor shows up 30 minutes later, and when he sees on the system log of the time machine:

"Terminator sent back to 1984. MISSION: KILL SARAH CONNOR"
"Terminator sent back to 1995. MISSION: KILL JOHN CONNOR"

he panics and sends a volunteer back in time to 1984 right away; and because his TECH COM team was severely depleted in the final offensive, he has to reprogram a T-800.

Finally, he sends back the T-800 and starts the time loop.

Originally:

1984 T-800: Materialized in Marianas Trench. Imploded by immense depth of water at 4 miles deep.
1995 T-1000: Materialized in Solid Rock in San Andreas Fault.
1984 Kyle Reese: Materialized in fire escape. Dies painfully.

as "time"/"universe"/"chaos theory protects itself -- the original tests Skynet did were not big or important enough to provoke a response from the fabric of nature itself -- the Resistance base that was destroyed as a test...would have been destroyed six months later, and was insignificant in the scheme of the universe.

But when Skynet literally started punching the universe hard; the universe punched back. (time displacement spheres going awry)

But then John Connor had to punch the fabric of reality so hard it broke with his attempt to send the T-800 Uncle Bob back through; causing the other attempts to successfully materialize in the past.

How Skynet performs several tests is also address in the fan articles at the Terminator 2029 site https://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/ (https://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/), which is a great source about the series.

But here it's a bit of 'hard' science fiction and whether time travel involves separate universes from the original or if any changes to the past would immediately reflect themselves on the present. But this is the kind of stuff that can give serious headaches when trying to explain what exactly is happening (Temporal Anomalies in the Terminator series (https://www.mjyoung.net/time/terminat.html)).
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 24, 2016, 05:52:57 am
Quote
How Skynet performs several tests is also address in the fan articles at the Terminator 2029 site https://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/, which is a great source about the series.

That website has been around for a long, long time.  ;D

It's also pretty good; with a few niggles -- he has SKYNET start with a lot of "super tech" such as Cheyenne Mountain being upgraded massively to fusion reactors, plasma weapons existing in limited prototype form before the fall, etc.

Bloated military budgets from a continuing cold war can advance technology a lot, but not that much.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Dioxine on September 24, 2016, 01:29:11 pm
The latest movie in the franchise seems to suggest (seems) that the terminator universe ultimately becomes what it must become: a Day of the Groundhog-like reality of endless iterations, where Skynet, Resistance, and possibly other factions (or just many, varied Skynets and many, varied Resistances) try to one-up another (starring The Doctor as Skynet doesn't seem to be a coincidence); the result - innumerable amount of timelines, with varied degrees of probability, from the 'canonic' one (I'll call it 'Amber-timeline') to completely wild ones (probably including any insane twist you can think of, like eg. Skynet's takeover happening through Weyland-Yutani hands when humanity finds Aliens :) ).
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 30, 2016, 12:03:26 am
The latest movie in the franchise seems to suggest (seems) that the terminator universe ultimately becomes what it must become: a Day of the Groundhog-like reality of endless iterations, where Skynet, Resistance, and possibly other factions (or just many, varied Skynets and many, varied Resistances) try to one-up another

Why do you think I didn't like it? It made it all pointless.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on September 30, 2016, 12:09:49 am
(Temporal Anomalies in the Terminator series (https://www.mjyoung.net/time/terminat.html)).

There's one problem with that.

If simply sending someone back in time changes the timeline and like he posits:

Of first importance, we know that the birth of Sarah Conner's child still occurred, because had that not happened, no one would have been sent back to protect her.  In fact, had the Terminator successfully prevented the birth of that child, then the Terminator would not have been sent back (at point D), and the original timeline would have been restored, forcing the world into an infinity loop.  However, something must have happened which John Conner needed to change; otherwise, no one would have come back to protect Sarah.  The fact that John sends Reese tells us first that the Terminator failed, but second that something was dreadfully wrong.

Then why does the Terminator go by the phone book in the movie (and in the early scripts, cuts open the leg to see if they have the characteristic broken bone implant that Sarah Connor had in the future) and Reese say in response to being questioned why the other women were killed by the Terminator:

Most records were lost in the war.  Skynet knew almost nothing about Connor's mother.  Her name. Where she lived, just the city.  No scanner pictures.  The Terminator was just being systematic.

?

Because if the Terminator goes back in time first, the swath of destruction he'd cut through the place would raise Sarah Connor's profile in various government databases.

Before the Terminator, Sarah Connor is a nobody. She's an average person with so little information available on her in various databases that to Skynet, she's a non entity.

But once the Terminator goes back first, Sarah Connor rises from a nobody to being a key person in a very complex, weird, and screwed up murder spree; and thus, Skynet in the future would have access to more detailed information arising from the first terminator's attempt as Sarah's profile would have been raised considerably in FBI, etc databases.

Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on October 04, 2016, 05:32:12 pm
Because if the Terminator goes back in time first, the swath of destruction he'd cut through the place would raise Sarah Connor's profile in various government databases.

Before the Terminator, Sarah Connor is a nobody. She's an average person with so little information available on her in various databases that to Skynet, she's a non entity.

But once the Terminator goes back first, Sarah Connor rises from a nobody to being a key person in a very complex, weird, and screwed up murder spree; and thus, Skynet in the future would have access to more detailed information arising from the first terminator's attempt as Sarah's profile would have been raised considerably in FBI, etc databases.

Not necessarily.

The T-800 in the first movie is an infiltrator model and it is operating on a hostile (human) environment, so its directives would include discretion to avoid detection until it terminates its targets. With the exception of the police station, all of its previous victims (Sarah's roommate & boyfriend, the other 2 Sarahs, the gun shop owner) are all killed in situations away from public view and that could be attributed to common murder.

Just the assault on the police station wouldn't be enough to draw the attention of the FBI - it would be a matter for local and state police to solve, unless there were indications of terrorism or organized crime. It becomes a very complex, weird, and screwed up murder spree, as you say, but at the same time there are plenty of those already.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Dioxine on October 29, 2016, 03:00:57 pm
Why do you think I didn't like it? It made it all pointless.

Only pointless from a single-timeline point of view. It made it make much more sense if you accept the existence of many intertwining timelines.

Citem is I think from the T2 book, and I cite from memory, so likely inaccurately:

The problem with time travels is that they never stop, even after they stop.

Terminator: The Time War?
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: RSSwizard on November 01, 2016, 01:14:20 am
Also its worth noting that while Skynet used the time travel technology there's nothing saying that this wasnt all started in some way by Humans developing time travel Before all of this, which because of their awkwardness somehow gets advanced tech deposited in the past and sets the stage for a very angry AI to be developed without the proper conditioning to keep it from becoming murderous.

And in their attempts to somehow Fix That, that group ends up getting eliminated somehow (that first terminator could have done that). The probability matrix for the rise of Skynet becomes so high that their timeline is pretty much eliminated.

This is also possible if its a small group doing it rather than an institution, meaning they are doing it in secret and have no institutional backing, resulting in a limited number of attempts. Taking a page from 90s sci-fi here with shows like Sliders and The Outer Limits.

And unlike robotic infiltrators humans are squishy and have limitations - especially for the fact that living in a modern environment requires alot of personal infrastructure just to survive (money, work history, credit history, fake SSN and papers). So the few time travelers, or the one left, who would be able to fix things actually fails or "Gets Fixed" by a T-800.

This is like the initial virus that mutates into the deadly virus that kills everybody, nobody remembers the initial thing and it may disappear quietly but it's what was actually responsible.

Somebody in a previous post also mentioned about Skynet getting access to advanced tech, the hyper-alloys, fusion tech and the plasma weapons. But even if we dont consider somebody dropping tech from an initial sunny bright future...

...thats where it can incorporate some of the ideas of black projects, darpa and sandia labs working on things in addition to other branches working on what would become Skynet. Cyber intelligence isnt their only pursuit and Skynet is smart, as a supercomputer it can sift through any information it collects from these research institutions, while it conducts its war against humanity.

It also has plenty of time (processing cycles) to ponder things, experiment and test on stuff, and like Xcom Research it can just sit there and keep working its way up the tech tree. And like Xcom is able to apply recent discoveries to its manufacturing. The improvements to the robotics up to the point of the T-700 may just have been straightforward refinement.

Just because it tries something and fails doesn't mean that it proves (for example Fusion) is impossible, a machine is heartless, and although as an AI it may have threshold controls on when to consider something hopeless - all it means is That Way doesn't work and there's no reason to give up. Skynet is an inventor, and at the least it would be able to take unfinished science projects humans were working on and continue research. Skynet doesn't require money or payment or coffee breaks for its work, it doesn't have a bureaucracy to answer to.

As for hapless Time Travelers, they would have developed their technology based on the efforts of humanity (even Tesla expanded on previous theories). But those theories could also be scavenged up by Skynet, even the possibility of using time travel would be a back burner project to look into. Skynet existed shortly before the nuclear war, it had plenty of time* to make backups of its information on mediums that would be unaffected by the EMP.

They wouldn't need to necessarily have left behind their Time Travel tech, whatever else they left behind to secure the possibility of Skynet was all that would be needed.

And as a movie or story plot, it could be eschewed because all it does is give a +1 bump to the possibility of skynet, it isnt required.

But it would explain how the original (earliest alpha) timeline could somehow produce John Connor from Sarah Conner, and something still be terribly wrong even though she survived the first terminator attack.

It might even change who John is, who his father was, maybe the most original John really would have gone on to become a humanity saviour just on his wits and skill alone.

Maybe that John ceases to exist, but because he's willing to send another man to go back in time and secure that lineage the new John Conner still ends up becoming an effective replacement. Maybe he ended up looking a little different, but because of his mom's training he still does the job.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 03, 2017, 01:54:25 am
We now have a workable V-22, plus terminator endo sprites:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5614.0.html
V-22

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5448.msg83949.html#msg83949
Termie Endo

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1875.0.html
Railgun

Some thoughts that came to me for a total conversion would be that we'd have to redesign the way bases look -- to more of a "slap dash tent city in the middle of nowhere" than "deep underground base", but then again, that all depends on what time frame you want to portray in the War against the Machines.

Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 04, 2017, 04:39:32 am
Heavily based off Hobbes' thoughts, plus musings on how to accomodate it in the current OpenXCOM engine.

Ideally, a Terminator game would use a Jagged Alliance 1 / Jagged Alliance 2 style system of allocating men and resources to a world map, rather than X-COM's base system; but we can't be picky. :-P

GAME DESIGN THOUGHTS

You're in charge of Technical Command (TECH-COM), a new top secret, special forces unit founded by John Connor to develop methods to combat Skynet and to carry out unorthodox missions in support of this objective.

The creation of TECH-COM was fraught with a lot of danger, as many of the quasi-independent resistance groups resisted the unification under one command pushed by John Connor; in addition to having to send manpower and resources to support this unknown TECH-COM.

So basically, like the World Council, the TECH-COM Working Committee is very skeptical of the utility of it in the fight against the robot menace.

Like XCOM, you need to produce results to survive; or else they'll shut you down and reallocate resources to the more conventional units.

The big problem comes from how to portray the fight against the Machines within the game design limitations of OpenXCOM, and trying to keep some realism within the limitations of the game.

For example; a classical "terror" site mission as put forth by Hobbes:

Camps/cells can be attacked by the machines, in which Tech-Com may chose to help the resistance fighters defending the camp (although there will be no penalty for despawning, unlike terror sites)

...

Skynet will also conduct Pacification/Reclamation missions, where there will always be civilians present

Doesn't effectively work within the strictures of plausibility -- in the time it takes TECH-COM to load up their beat up V-22 and fly across the world, SKYNET would have terminated everyone, and transported the few survivors to death camps for experimentation before termination.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 05, 2017, 04:35:28 am
Manufacturing would play a MUCH greater role in this total conversion, than in Stock XCOM.

In fact, you could use the same core mechanics for this total conversion for a different TC, a sort of "bad end" XCOM sequel, where you have to win after you lost UFO: Enemy Unknown.

Instead of terror sites; you'd get "SALVAGE SITES", reported to you by various regional commands; and you'd go there, and clear out the Endos or whatever else Skynet has there, to recover stuff.

Basically, you'd have things like broken computers, etc which if you beat the salvage site, you'd get them; similar to how Elerium is handled in stock XCOM.

You would then have to use these components in your manufacturing labs to manufacture items.

Basically, if you wanted to manufacture a rifle with a holographic sight, you'd need to have "ALUMINUM ALLOYS" +"MISC CIRCUITRY" to make one.

Ammunition would be of varying difficulty to manufacture.

Making a conventional metallic cartridge would be moderately complex (bullet + case + powder + primer), while if the weapon was for example, an electromagnetic railgun that fired metallic spikes, the gun itself would be expensive (battery+circuitry) but the ammo would be cheap and easy to make (machined metal spikes).

Caseless ammunition? Fugheddabout it. You'd need to find caseless ammo in pre-war stockpiles (SKYNET would probably not use caseless, because it's major advantage -- weight reduction -- is not useful for machines). Because manufacturing caseless ammo is pretty complex.

Etc.

You get the idea.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 05, 2017, 04:41:41 am
In conventional XCOM, bases are very expensive/time consuming to build and then to run.

But in FUTURE WAR, the bases would have to be cheap, because this isn't XCOM, where you can keep fighting off Alien retaliation missions.

SKYNET can quickly mass forces to crush any human outpost/base it finds; since it controls the skies, etc.

Meaning that in FUTURE WAR, you would quickly learn to have multiple bases, with backups to backups, so that TECH COM can keep running after SKYNET locates a base and sends a super heavy attack after it.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 05, 2017, 03:38:18 pm
Concerning the Geoscape here's a description of what I have tested/thought so far:
* Skynet's strategy is essentially like a virus. It has a starting region where its 'Core' is located (in canon it would be the western US but it can be randomized) and from that region it will send missions to build 'primary' bases in other regions. The Core will also launch Retaliation missions in regions with Tech-Com presence to destroy any human base present, and will launch additional missions to build Research facilities (which need to be found and assaulted to win the game).
* The Core can be detected by Tech-Com craft operating on the region where it is located and even assaulted but you'll be basically walking into a major trap (think of your worst disembarkation from the Skyranger that went wrong), so it will be impossible to win the game by destroying the Core.
* The 'primary' base role is then to build additional bases in the region dedicated to Infiltration/Terror/Harvest to neutralize the Resistance and exterminate any remaining humans. As you may expect, early detection and removal of those 'primary' bases will be critical to stopping the machine's expansion and secure regions from Skynet. And if Skynet manages to expand its initial foothold, the harder will be to stop it due to the retaliation missions generated on the region and the endless building of new Skynet 'secondary'' bases in the region.
* The V-22 Osprey would be the main Tech-Com transport craft and it would have its real life speed/range settings. This will mean that there will be plenty of missions that Tech-Com won't be able to reach unless it has already its own base in the region. However, leaving those missions unattended will meant a lesser score penalty than in XCom.
* Tech-Com will only be able to safely place new bases in the Core region or any other areas after researching the equivalent of the Mind Shield technology or a tech that significantly reduces the time to build new base facilities (those new bases could be high-tech tent camps designed to be placed in a matter of hours but with light defenses when compared to the underground Resistance bases)
* For Tech-Com to win the game, it will have to assault and recover data from Skynet research facilities regarding the temporal displacement device that the machines are building and discover its location. Then the final mission will consist of Tech-Com assaulting the time travel facility while the Resistance is off screen assaulting the Core facility.

All of this is feasible with the current nightlies. However, one thing that is missing that would really help make the Geoscape different would be if the equivalent of UFOs (Hunter-Killers or HKs) could intercept and attack Tech-Com craft. If this was implemented (someone tried a while ago but abandoned the effort) it would really make the air war more interesting.

A few more things concerning crafts/HKs:
* HKs can come on both aerial and ground types. The ground HKs will actually travel at realistic speeds and will be used move for convoys and large assaults while the aerial types will be for recon and small strikes. It will be possible to engage the ground HKs with attack crafts.
* The attack planes used by Tech-Com will be A-10s and similar, because of maintenance and survivability.
* Active detection systems like radars are out of the question because they can be detected. Instead, passive surveillance systems will need to be used with a lesser range and reliability than radars.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 05, 2017, 05:28:28 pm
* The V-22 Osprey would be the main Tech-Com transport craft and it would have its real life speed/range settings. This will mean that there will be plenty of missions that Tech-Com won't be able to reach unless it has already its own base in the region. However, leaving those missions unattended will meant a lesser score penalty than in XCom.

I think there would only be two TECH-COM craft in the whole game:

V-22

and some sort of hacked together/stolen/repaired Skynet Hunter-Killer Transport which might be needed to assault the R&D facility, through a trojan horse attempt using stolen terminator data ID # to "get in the front door"?

Another thing is, what if you get two V-22's TOTAL in the entire game? As of 2027, they haven't been made for 28 years, and have been beat up for 28 years of hard abuse with virtually no depot level maintenance.

Just getting two V-22s for TECH COM's initial fitting out is a significant achievement.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 05, 2017, 06:22:54 pm
I think there would only be two TECH-COM craft in the whole game:

V-22

and some sort of hacked together/stolen/repaired Skynet Hunter-Killer Transport which might be needed to assault the R&D facility, through a trojan horse attempt using stolen terminator data ID # to "get in the front door"?

One idea I had was to place one of the Skynet bases whose destruction is required to win in a location on Earth which could only be reached by an enhanced transport craft (any Tech Com bases placed there would be immediately destroyed by multiple Skynet's retaliation missions).

Another idea I had was a fast transport craft with a lower troop capacity for recon missions, where you'd use it to scout Skynet's existing bases on a region in search of research facility (since they'll be indistinguishable from secondary bases). When the lab was found you'd have the chance of trying to assault the facility using the fast transport, or build a base nearby to use the V-22

Quote
Another thing is, what if you get two V-22's TOTAL in the entire game? As of 2027, they haven't been made for 28 years, and have been beat up for 28 years of hard abuse with virtually no depot level maintenance.

Just getting two V-22s for TECH COM's initial fitting out is a significant achievement.

Also considered this idea. The main issue is that after you lose all the V-22s then it is essentially game over, unless you have already reverse engineered the HK for transport. But it might be too frustrating to lose an entire campaign because the player is not initially aware of this requirement.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 06, 2017, 05:38:03 pm
Is it possible to "give" the player craft or soldiers when you complete a research project; or if your monthly score is above a certain numeric score?

One of the reasons players are so profligate in UFO is because no matter what, no matter how much materiel or soldiers you lose, you can just buy more.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: yrizoud on August 06, 2017, 07:37:50 pm
It would raise the issue of receiving more personal than you have personal quarters for.
IMO, the neatest way to handle it would be to have the game handle a limited pool of volunteers, that you draw from whenever you recruit. Monthly results and specific missions would increase this amount.

About vehicles, the XCOM engine and screens really needs an empty hangar to attach them, so it works better if hangars are naturally more frequent than finding / receiving a ship.  I can imagine two different methods :
- The hangar buildings would be item storage and/or manufacturing as well, so that the player naturally builds more.
- The game mod would use ready-made bases that naturally have many hangars (this simulates how the resistance doesn't build from scratch : they take control of areas, or convince other groups to join them)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2017, 07:59:55 pm
In OXCE+, you can get an item as a result from research. Make this item a "craft, assembly required". :)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Meridian on August 06, 2017, 09:24:23 pm
Is it possible to "give" the player craft

Yes (as solarius suggested).

or soldiers when you complete a research project

Yes (same way)

or if your monthly score is above a certain numeric score?

Not yet... but not a bad idea actually... I'll put monthly rewards on the todo list... actually, I quite like the council requests system from Long War... maybe I'll do support for something like that in OXCE+
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 06, 2017, 11:30:59 pm
And the Xeno Ops Armor in Grey (or black) would be perfect for TECH-COM starting armor; based on the colors of the uniforms in the first two movies for Future War.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 07, 2017, 12:00:19 am
And the Xeno Ops Armor in Grey (or black) would be perfect for TECH-COM starting armor; based on the colors of the uniforms in the first two movies for Future War.

There's a ton of armors from XenoOps that could be used, either for Resistance units as allied forces or Tech-Com units.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 07, 2017, 02:56:23 am
Skynet Units could be:


Might also be worth looking into the old Bethesda Terminator 2029 game for "inspiration".

Link to gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-PBi-N1hQo)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 10, 2017, 04:41:14 am
One of the reasons TFTD was so good, even though it was a thin reskin of UFO was because it was so atmospheric -- the atmosphere alone sold the game.

A Terminator mod needs to be atmospheric.

Some thoughts:

Wilderness areas need to have subdued colors. No neon greens or browns or bright yellows; in fitting with the judgement day universe's grimness.

Also, the subdued vegetation colors may be because of Skynet's use of large scale chemical defoliants to remove cover for human survivors in the jungles and forests, plus to starve them out.

Urban landscapes need to be blasted grey ruins, with more available underground (sewers and basements) than above ground.

Skynet bases can be divided between newer and older bases. The newer bases can be built in total darkness with nothing but the glow of computer monitors or indicator lights in the background as Skynet and it's minions need no visual light; but the older bases (such as the core or whatever) actually have visible light, because they're pre-war or very early war, back when Skynet was young.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on August 10, 2017, 04:50:20 am
Since we are talking about terminators, will there be heroic troopers or some terminator rouges to fight alongside humanity?
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 12, 2017, 01:36:27 am
Since we are talking about terminators, will there be heroic troopers or some terminator rouges to fight alongside humanity?

Well, we know that Terminators can be reprogrammed per T2 Canon:

Quote
John Connor: Yeah? Who sent you?

The Terminator: You did. Thirty-five years from now, you reprogrammed me to be your protector here, in this time.

What you could do is re-purpose the "Alien Containment" into "Cybernetic Containment" and have it consist of an EXTREMELY strong, airlocked faraday cage, to prevent any transmissions from getting into the room (or out), so that Skynet machines can be experimented on while active.

Before you have the Cybernetic Containment, they're too dangerous to keep around active, so they're burned out before entry to your base, lest they have a secret homing beacon to lead Skynet to you...
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 12, 2017, 07:45:34 am
These are very reasonable assumptions, Stoddard. The Alien Containment sprite even fits.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 12, 2017, 06:17:43 pm
Some more thoughts:

The Purchase/Sell dynamic of the game would be a LOT different.

There might be something called "RU" representing generic resources (Resource Units) consumed by TECH-COM, because the idea of "Salary" is a bit obsolete in the world of 2026-2029.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 12, 2017, 06:55:04 pm
Some Artwork for the UFOPedia, screens etc.

Original Images + UFOPedia Paletted PNG files.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 12, 2017, 07:09:34 pm
Some more
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on August 12, 2017, 07:18:26 pm
Looooooking nice!
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 12, 2017, 10:24:31 pm
So I've got some ranks for TECH-COM:

Code: [Select]
###RANKS####

extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_ROOKIE: "Private"
      STR_SQUADDIE: "Corporal"
      STR_SERGEANT: "Sergeant"
      STR_CAPTAIN: "Captain"
      STR_COLONEL: "Colonel"
      STR_COMMANDER: "General"
 
extraSprites:
  - type: BASEBITS.PCK
    files:
      42: Resources/UI/Rank_0.png
      43: Resources/UI/Rank_1.png
      44: Resources/UI/Rank_2.png
      45: Resources/UI/Rank_3.png
      46: Resources/UI/Rank_4.png
      47: Resources/UI/Rank_5.png

But they display incorrect palette in GeoScape/Baseview and they don't show up in Battlescape (the original UFO ranks do instead).
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 12, 2017, 11:09:05 pm
In the Year of Darkness, 2029, the rulers of this planet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear. Something unstoppable. They created 'THE TERMINATOR'

Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 13, 2017, 01:21:59 am
Got an intro cut scene now.

STR_TERM_INTRO_1: "During the Summer of 1999, war was the least on everyone's minds."
STR_TERM_INTRO_2: "The Warsaw Treaty for the Reduction of Arms had just been signed."
STR_TERM_INTRO_3: "Relations between the United States and Soviet Union were improving."
STR_TERM_INTRO_4: "Around 2:43 AM, Eastern Time on Tuesday, September 13, 1999..."
STR_TERM_INTRO_5: "Approximately 65% of all strategic weapons were suddenly launched."
STR_TERM_INTRO_6: "The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day."
STR_TERM_INTRO_7: "They lived only to face a new nightmare..."
STR_TERM_INTRO_8: "...the War Against The Machines."
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 13, 2017, 01:45:44 am
Here's how to create a cutscene file using PAINT SHOP PRO.

1.) Reduce file sizes to 320x200.

2.) Decrease Color Depth to X Colors

3.) Select:
Number of Colors: 250
Optimized Median Cut
Nearest Color

3.) IMAGE -> PALETTE -> EDIT PALETTE

4.) Select Palette Index 250, and use the following image to insert these colors into the palette.

#8cccb8
#68a498
#487c78
#2c5054
#14282c

They all have to be in that order. Because if you select the lead indexed color (250), it will pull the next several colors in the index to "build" the shading for the text.

5.) Save the file.

EDIT: Palette #0 is the background fill color for resolutions larger than 320x200. Set it to Black (0,0,0) for best quality.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 15, 2017, 02:49:35 am
Request to move this to the Modding/Experiments forum.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on August 15, 2017, 04:34:32 am
This is finally taking shape, so why not move it at the modding/experiments since this might actually become a megamod
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: SideQuests on August 18, 2017, 01:28:02 am
Trying to work on this beauty :)

Skynet Centurion!
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 18, 2017, 03:25:46 am
Great work on everything guys! :D

I've been on holidays and completely out of access to the internet for a week (which was rather nice) but I still managed to spend some of the time rethinking the whole Geoscape and wrote down a ton of notes.

Since this mod has gathered some attention lately, I've attached the work that me, chaosshade and IvanDogovich have made so far. It would be best to post it somewhere (Github?) if people start adding into it but I have almost zero experience with forks and etc.

I will also start coding into the ruleset the Geoscape changes I thought of, including:
* Resistance craft - V-22 (with different versions including radar and long range)
* Hunter-Killer (HKs) - aerial and ground versions, together with their patrol points
* missionScripts
* alienMissions
* alienDeployments

Basically nearly everything that involves the strategy layer. I had some new ideas that should be *interesting* to implement and turn the Geoscape more random (Skynet's HQ doesn't start always in North America for instance) and make Tech-Com base expansion as a requirement to win actually win the game. But, more on this will follow later :)

Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 18, 2017, 03:38:15 am
Well, we know that Terminators can be reprogrammed per T2 Canon:

What you could do is re-purpose the "Alien Containment" into "Cybernetic Containment" and have it consist of an EXTREMELY strong, airlocked faraday cage, to prevent any transmissions from getting into the room (or out), so that Skynet machines can be experimented on while active.

Before you have the Cybernetic Containment, they're too dangerous to keep around active, so they're burned out before entry to your base, lest they have a secret homing beacon to lead Skynet to you...

My idea is also to replace Psionics with Tech skills - once you research enough you'll get the equivalent of the Psi-Amp, which you will then be able to use to hack Terminator units. And have the Stun Rod replaced with something that can be use to capture Terminators, and even reprogram them once you get the appropriate tech, although there's an issue regarding overabuse by the player of captured Terminator units. And it would make sense for Skynet to deploy an anti-Terminator unit like the T-X.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 18, 2017, 03:56:25 am
extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_ROOKIE: "Private"
      STR_SQUADDIE: "Corporal"
      STR_SERGEANT: "Sergeant"
      STR_CAPTAIN: "Captain"
      STR_COLONEL: "Colonel"
      STR_COMMANDER: "General"

Makes me wish it was possible to add Lieutenant and Major and their corresponding insignias :)

I actually don't see Tech-Com as a 4 star organization, which is related to my head canon about the timeline where it takes place, which is also related to the new missions I have been considering during my holidays.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 18, 2017, 05:23:23 am
re: 4 stars, see pic from T2.

JC may be following semi-standard US paramilitary practice -- in the NYPD, the Chief of Department is a four star rank, while Deputy Chief is a one star rank.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on August 18, 2017, 05:38:15 am
I am so definitely waiting for these series to come
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: SideQuests on August 18, 2017, 03:00:43 pm
I think I have some good stuff for the majority of the units with the exception of the endoskeleton, the sprite from my other post is ok but not the best I am working on something else but the unit editing isn't my forte.

I have workable sprites for a:

HWP sized HK1 the flying HK from rise of the machines
HWP sized The centurion spider type HK (this unit has a 20 frame walk cycle ... trying to convert it to 5 frames and not look crap is difficult :) lol)
HWP sized HK tank

My current ideas for other things are:

A small 1x1 flying drone
A cyborg conversion unit as per the dawn of fate game
An aerial HK adapted from the command and conquer flying orca unit
A partial endounit which when damaged spawns a skeletal endoskeleton
A couple of variants of the endoskeleton unit with differing resistances to weapons
Repurpose the stun damage for emp damage

Some of these have been ported from voxels so might need a bit of TLC from someone with a bit of artistic flair.

Love the hand ob work completed so far tho :)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on August 18, 2017, 03:56:03 pm
Shit, are those from C&C 2 Yuri's Revenge?
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: SideQuests on August 18, 2017, 06:27:29 pm
Not sure the site I got them off of is called the MadHQ graveyard :)
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 19, 2017, 04:01:25 am
One of the things we could do to "change" the feel is to adopt a red palette similar to that of the Terminator's HUD instead of the current XCOM "happy greens".
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 20, 2017, 03:05:38 pm
One of the things we could do to "change" the feel is to adopt a red palette similar to that of the Terminator's HUD instead of the current XCOM "happy greens".

Just don't forget to check for readability - some color schemes work better than others and there should be a balance between aesthetics and function.

I've been working over the weekend to get the a minimum functional Geoscape with the regions/alienMissions fully working. My goal at this point is to get the strategic layer working as much as possible before switching to map making for the Battlescape
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 22, 2017, 06:28:49 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/uv13rM6.png)

Some of the experiments I've been doing. I had previously thought of switching the globe colors into grayscale for a post-apocalyptic look. The colors of the labels need to be changed but haven't figured out yet how to change those.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 23, 2017, 01:00:46 am
(http://i.imgur.com/eDjyXoE.png)

This image displays a basic V-22 Osprey craft used by Tech-Com at its maximum operating range and carrying 18 units. Ospreys can be acquired through the Market and then upgraded through workshops to include air weapons, extra fuel tanks or radar, with each upgrade reducing the unit carrying by 6 units. 
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Meridian on August 23, 2017, 10:47:37 am
The colors of the labels need to be changed but haven't figured out yet how to change those.

Code: [Select]
globe:
  countryColor: 239
  cityColor: 138
  baseColor: 133
  lineColor: 162
  oceanPalette: 12

Colors that can be used are attached.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 23, 2017, 02:40:28 pm
Colors that can be used are attached.

Thank you for the chart. Very useful!
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 25, 2017, 06:21:29 am
I've been working on the last days to get ready to release a playable Alpha version.

I pretty much have the major changes to the strategic layer implemented at this stage:
* Skynet starts the game with 3 bases, each randomly placed around the world: Core, 1 Factory and 1 Hunter-Killer (UFO equivalent) Base
* The Core is Skynet's HQ - it can be assaulted but it will be a suicide mission until technology X is researched. Each day the Core has a 12% chance of generating one of the following missions: Infiltration, Retaliation and Supply. Assaulting the Core and recovering a specific tech is required to win the game but it will trigger a massive offensive by Skynet
* Factories are used to expand Skynet's presence in regions. Each day they have a 6% chance of generating an HK Base or Workcamp in the region they are located, or a regular Supply mission
* HK Bases are used to terminate the Resistance/Tech-Com's presence. Each day they have a 9% chance of generating one of the following missions: Infiltration, Retaliation and Supply
* Workcamps are used to process and eliminate the human population and gather resources. Each day they have a 9% chance of generating one of the following missions: Harvest, Abduction and Supply
* Skynet will also build 3 research bases at date/research milestones, which need to be discovered and assaulted to win the game. These facilities will be disguised in the Geoscape as Workcamps but they'll generate unique Research missions
* At a late milestone, the Tempus facility will be unlocked at a random location around the world which has data that needs to be recovered to unlock the final
* Skynet will conduct up to 3 Terror missions each month, randomly spread around the world.
* Several milestones may unlock additional Terror or Retaliation missions

Resistance
* The 'council' consists of 22 Sectors, each representing a former country or a collection of Resistance groups operating in the area
* The V-22 is the only starting craft, and it has a range around 600-1000 miles, making it very slow and limited when compared to the Skyranger although carrying 18 troops. But it can be reconfigured in workshops to give it extra fuel, radar or air weapons, at the expense of its carrying unit
* Placing the initial base will represent both an opportunity and a risk: if it's near the initial Factory/HK Base then there's a chance of eliminating earlier those bases before they can become troublesome, but if placed near the Core then it will be subject to multiple Retaliation attacks. But even worse will be none of these Skynet bases being in range of the player's starting base
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 27, 2017, 07:57:16 pm
Need help with the UFOPaedia text, Hobbes?
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 27, 2017, 09:53:18 pm
Need help with the UFOPaedia text, Hobbes?

Need help with pretty much everything, the amount of stuff that needs to be done is huge :)

Here's a link to my current version, I've already added a number of things over the past days: http://www.mediafire.com/file/e4f4zvq3374rrka/TechCom_v101.zip
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: MKSheppard on August 27, 2017, 11:21:22 pm
I'll see what I can do about the Tech-Pedia.

I'm going to try and write it from the POV of having to train 16-18 year old kids who were born around 2009~, some ten years after J-Day.

So expect some heavy "back history" on the world.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2017, 12:47:05 am
I'll see what I can do about the Tech-Pedia.

I'm going to try and write it from the POV of having to train 16-18 year old kids who were born around 2009~, some ten years after J-Day.

So expect some heavy "back history" on the world.

Current name is Skynetpedia but feel free to change it - the only issue is that it needs to combine with the other labels used in Geoscape (there's already one called Tech-Com, just see for yourself)

I hardly wrote anything about the backstory because I'm considering a new research system to make the game more RPG like but at this stage it's too early to try to implement anything new
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: SideQuests on September 01, 2017, 02:27:30 am
So another potential sprite source for the endoskeleton that could serve as a good starting point, T2 arcade game on Sega Master System.  The sprite just about fits into the XCOM frame.

I tried ripping the whole animation but failed due to my inexperience with emulators.
Title: Re: [SUGGESTION] Terminator series
Post by: SideQuests on October 10, 2017, 12:30:19 am
Hobbes I think I have hit a potential gold source here ... I found a mod for Galactic Battlegrounds and extracted the units :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 05, 2018, 04:36:35 pm
Hobbes I think I have hit a potential gold source here ... I found a mod for Galactic Battlegrounds and extracted the units :)

Thanks, but I have no use for such sprites unless they are already in the format required to work in OpenXcom because I have neither the time or the skills to convert them myself.

At the moment I'm also more concerned with implementing the Geoscape than the tactical part of the mod

--- posts merged ---

Well, thanks to Meridian's efforts in adding the 'hunter-killer' ability to UFOs, it seems we're on the path for an alpha release :D

At this point the mod already contains:
* T-800 unit
* Resistance units
* Weapons
* V-22 Osprey
* Aerial Hunter-Killer ufos

The Geoscape part is still half-done, but now that UFOs intercepting your craft is available, it becomes a lot more interesting to design and implement stuff. More news later

--- posts merged ---

Redesigning Regions

The original game's regions were designed considering that the aliens would build bases in isolated areas and perform abductions/harvest in more rural areas, while conducting terror attacks on cities. UFOs would spawn/disappear in areas outside the region, simulating their entry on the atmosphere.

In Tech-Com the strategic situation is different: Skynet will start in control of central areas on each region/continent and the presence of the Resistance will be centered on outlying areas. So I'm currently redesigning all the missionZones (which are used by UFOs on the original to determine their flight paths) taking this into consideration

As an example
(https://i.imgur.com/HSgJp31.png)

The area within the black polygons is under Skynet control - these will be the locations to spawn bases. The red stars are patrol areas for aerial Hunter-Killers, and the blue stars Resistance bases (for terror sites).

The redesign will also allow to implement new mission types for Skynet:
* Counter-Air - multiple aerial HKs will conduct permanent patrols over most of a month to detect and shoot down any Tech-Com airborne craft in a region. Designed to severely limit Tech-Com's operations on a region
* Patrol - similar to above, but using only a single aerial HK launched by a Skynet base in the area with a much shorter patrol duration
* Convoy - ground HK will move between Skynet bases transporting supplies and equipment. The convoy will be very slow and easy to detect but it will only move in Skynet controlled areas
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Gordonmull on February 07, 2018, 08:29:06 pm
Looking and sounding awesome so far. Some serious game wizardry going on here!  :) :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 07, 2018, 10:23:34 pm
Here's a gif of an aerial encounter

(https://i.imgur.com/Vlgg8aZ.gif)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: The Think Tank on February 08, 2018, 04:11:51 am
This does look quite fantastic thus far, best of luck to you, Hobbes!
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 09, 2018, 11:57:06 pm
Wow, this seems just awesome! I can't wait to try the Battlescape.

Just an request: could be possible to add the A-10 Thunderbolts from Terminator: Salvation?
They are very capable to kill HKs and it seems to be the only fixed-wing combat aircraft of the Resistance. It would be great to seek and destroy HKs with some Warthogs.  8) It even has more sense to fight HKs with these, compared to an Osprey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT9k7mGze4I

This is a video with all of the scenes of the A-10 from the movie.  :D
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 10, 2018, 02:55:18 am
Wow, this seems just awesome! I can't wait to try the Battlescape.

Just an request: could be possible to add the A-10 Thunderbolts from Terminator: Salvation?
They are very capable to kill HKs and it seems to be the only fixed-wing combat aircraft of the Resistance. It would be great to seek and destroy HKs with some Warthogs.  8) It even has more sense to fight HKs with these, compared to an Osprey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT9k7mGze4I

This is a video with all of the scenes of the A-10 from the movie.  :D

The A-10 (aka 'Hawg') has already been added - I just haven't gotten the proper sprites for it yet. :)

Here's the current UFOPedia description:

"The A-10 was originally designed to kill enemy armor and survive anti-aircraft fire.  Its durability has made it also a favorite of the Resistance's pilots, allowing it to engage and shoot-down HKs with its cannon or missiles and still returning to base after sustaining heavy damage.  Most of the Hawgs flown today by the Resistance are recovered pre-Judgment Day models that have been recovered from destroyed military bases or crash sites and have been rebuilt several times over the years.

However, the Thunderbolt also suffers from a disadvantage while intercepting HKs due to its slow speed and it has a much lesser range than the V-22, limiting its role as a transport escort."
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 12, 2018, 09:49:19 am
Wow! Sounds awesome! I can't wait to chop some HKs with GAU-8 Avenger.  8)

This mod could be played in Android?
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 12, 2018, 04:46:29 pm
Wow! Sounds awesome! I can't wait to chop some HKs with GAU-8 Avenger.  8)

This mod could be played in Android?

You'll to ask elsewhere about if OXCE+ works on Android

For now I've finished adding craft, here's a list of available craft:
* A-10 Warthog
* A-37 Dragonfly
* S-3 Viking (air to air radar)
* E-1 Tracer (air to air radar, no weapons)
* E-2 Hawkeye (air to air radar, no weapons)
* OV-1 Mohawk (air to ground sensors, can detect Skynet bases)
* OV-10 Bronco (air to ground sensors, can detect Skynet bases)
* MV-22 Osprey
* CMV-22 Super Osprey

Most of this craft are older models or converted - the idea is that the Resistance has to make due with whatever it can recover from destroyed military bases and aircraft boneyard, and that it has lost the ability to manufacture or support supersonic aircraft.
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2018, 06:17:28 am
The devil's hands have not been idle... ;)

Time for more pics of the most recent work, to distract me for the insane amount of work still ahead.

(https://i.imgur.com/R1U8fwJ.png?1)

This is the initial topic on the Tech-Com Craft & Armaments section. Might add a couple more of those, explaining some features like:
* Radars and craft speed/range are real life and much smaller than in XCom
* Bases (Skynet and Tech-Com) can only be detected be specific craft
* Radar planes (Tracer and Hawkeye) air detection is much more powerful than radars mounted on fighters (Skyhawk, Tiger, Lion)
* Paratroopers

(https://i.imgur.com/240ywKl.png?1)

There are currently 16 crafts and 13 craft weapons, divided into several categories. There are roughly two tech levels, although the difference between them isn't overwhelming and by the nature of the game, crafts will always be hard to get so nothing gets obsolete.

(https://i.imgur.com/KbZrdv6.png?1)

The last image displays the maximum range of several of the transports, with the outermost circle being the Canadair (VTOL), the middle one the Osprey (VTOL), and the smaller one the Twin Otter. The Bronco, Twin Otter and Sherpa all deploy their soldiers using paratroopers - still figuring out how to implement that one, but I have some ideas already.

As you can see the ranges are quite limited - you'd need 2 bases to properly control North America, otherwise Skynet might build bases on the locations where you can't reach. Some regions like Asia or Africa even might require up to 3 bases, but you'll need to be careful or you might be placing bases right in the middle of Skynet territory and risk detection. Regions have also been consolidated - instead of the 16 found in XCom, there are now only 8, them being the 7 continents plus the Arctic.

Resistance crafts and craft weapons should be done at this point, next will be the aerial HKs, and then after some testing I'll release an alpha for people to try the new air combat game over North America (none of the other continents properly work at this stage)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 13, 2018, 11:11:13 pm
I like the new background of the Geoscape, seems too "strategic situation room". It's awesome!

About the transports, there is going to be another "lander" helicopter, besides the Ospreys? You know, like UH-1 Hueys or MH-6 Little Birds.
The idea of paratroopers sound great, you could just put some "spawn tiles" (I don't remember the correct name of that squares were your soldiers start at the begining of every mission) and in the center, some kind of beacon. Maybe an smoke grenade or flares. And when the mission is over (or Skynet is kicking your ass too hard), just return you troops to this landing tiles and get out, simulating that the Osprey/Huey/Little Bird/Superman/Batwing evacs you.

https://i.imgur.com/0a1CMW5.jpg
Just to exemplify this.  ;D

About that Android thing, yes, it seems to be possible to play Tech-Com on phones, I just found the link of Meridian's post with the apk of OXCE+ for Android. :D

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2018, 11:27:15 pm
I like the new background of the Geoscape, seems too "strategic situation room". It's awesome!

I need to do some recoloring of it ;)

Quote
About the transports, there is going to be another "lander" helicopter, besides the Ospreys? You know, like UH-1 Hueys or MH-6 Little Birds.

Yes, there is another VTOL plane like the Osprey (the Canadair Dynavert - the UFOPedia states that the Resistance recovered the prototype from a museum being used a refugee shelter), and regarding helicopters in general, I don't plan to add them because their range & speed are too limited.

Quote
The idea of paratroopers sound great, you could just put some "spawn tiles" (I don't remember the correct name of that squares were your soldiers start at the begining of every mission) and in the center, some kind of beacon. Maybe an smoke grenade or flares. And when the mission is over (or Skynet is kicking your ass too hard), just return you troops to this landing tiles and get out, simulating that the Osprey/Huey/Little Bird/Superman/Batwing evacs you.

I've already implemented a similar solution to what you're describing in some maps in the Area 51 expansion. I'm still not entirely sure about this idea, we'll see how it goes later.
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 14, 2018, 02:53:36 am


I need to do some recoloring of it ;)

Yes, there is another VTOL plane like the Osprey (the Canadair Dynavert - the UFOPedia states that the Resistance recovered the prototype from a museum being used a refugee shelter), and regarding helicopters in general, I don't plan to add them because their range & speed are too limited.

I've already implemented a similar solution to what you're describing in some maps in the Area 51 expansion. I'm still not entirely sure about this idea, we'll see how it goes later.

I just google it, the Canadair Dynavert looks awesome. If the Resistance found it in a museum, then it means we're only have one, right?

About Area 51, are you going to add armed civilians in this mod, too? That's one of my favorite things of Area 51.

Enviado desde mi Blade A510 mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 14, 2018, 08:55:51 am
The battle for control of North America is in progress...

(https://i.imgur.com/wo0O53g.png?1)

A quick explanation of the symbols:
* The red Vs are Hunter-Killers
* The red square is Skynet itself
* Pink symbols: inverted  V - Work Camp, V - HK Base, square - Factory, antenna - Lab
* Green symbols: circle - Supply Drop, square -Abandoned Base
* The cyan T is a Tech Com base and the yellow circle a craft (there will be specific icons for each craft type later)

Geoscape is nearly done, still have to fix some issues regarding fuel, range and weapons balance. Over the next days I should get a few of the combat missions operational, although several (Base Defense and Skynet Base Assault being the most important) will still require a lot of work.

I just google it, the Canadair Dynavert looks awesome. If the Resistance found it in a museum, then it means we're only have one, right?

Probably.  My idea at this point is that you won't be able to buy any craft (and other equipment), since you'll have to recover it all from Supply Drops and Abandoned Bases, at least until you learn how to manufacture craft in your workshops. When you recover craft from such a mission you'll get like 2 fighters, plus a transport and a support craft, all determined randomly, but you'll still need to get them operational in your workshops.

Quote
About Area 51, are you going to add armed civilians in this mod, too? That's one of my favorite things of Area 51.

According to John Connor, there are no civilians in the war against the machines - "You become a volunteer for the Resistance the moment you took your first breath in defiance of Skynet"

You'll only encounter unarmed humans will be if they are prisoners in a Workcamp or are doing slave labor in one of the machines' reclamation efforts. Everyone else in a mission will carry weapons or will start in a position where there are weapons available to be picked up and used.
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 14, 2018, 03:01:20 pm
The battle for control of North America is in progress...


A quick explanation of the symbols:
* The red inverted Vs are Hunter-Killers
* The red square is Skynet itself
* Pink symbols: V - Work Camp, inverted V - HK Base, square - Factory, weird - Lab
* Green symbols: circle - Supply Drop, square -Abandoned Base
* The cyan T is a Tech Com base and the yellow circle a craft (there will be specific icons for each craft type later)

Geoscape is nearly done, still have to fix some issues regarding fuel, range and weapons balance. Over the next days I should get a few of the combat missions operational, although several (Base Defense and Skynet Base Assault being the most important) will still require a lot of work.

I like the new symbols, they seem very useful. Haha I can't wait to try this.

Quote
Probably.  My idea at this point is that you won't be able to buy any craft (and other equipment), since you'll have to recover it all from Supply Drops and Abandoned Bases, at least until you learn how to manufacture craft in your workshops. When you recover craft from such a mission you'll get like 2 fighters, plus a transport and a support craft, all determined randomly, but you'll still need to get them operational in your workshops.

I like this idea, It forces you to carefully plan the air strikes and interceptions of HKs, so you do not throw your fighters at the first target that appears.

I assume that this restriction of supply will also apply to arms and ammunition, right?

Quote
According to John Connor, there are no civilians in the war against the machines - "You become a volunteer for the Resistance the moment you took your first breath in defiance of Skynet"

You'll only encounter unarmed humans will be if they are prisoners in a Workcamp or are doing slave labor in one of the machines' reclamation efforts. Everyone else in a mission will carry weapons or will start in a position where there are weapons available to be picked up and used.

Sounds logic. Well, in that case, will there be armed allied NPCs? I'm thinking about some Skynet assault on a Resistance base (basically a Terror Mission) and when Tech-Com comes, you encounter Resistance soldiers already fighting the machines. Haha in Area 51 there are some of this kind of missions, that's what I like it so much. ;D
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 15, 2018, 07:34:59 am
Sounds logic. Well, in that case, will there be armed allied NPCs? I'm thinking about some Skynet assault on a Resistance base (basically a Terror Mission) and when Tech-Com comes, you encounter Resistance soldiers already fighting the machines. Haha in Area 51 there are some of this kind of missions, that's what I like it so much. ;D

Yes, there will be plenty of armed allied NPCs :)

(https://i.imgur.com/MvaLX66.png?1)

Air combat is nearly done, needs a lot of testing, and I already started working on some ground missions. I should release an alpha in the next days :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 15, 2018, 03:18:45 pm
Yes, there will be plenty of armed allied NPCs :)

(https://i.imgur.com/MvaLX66.png?1)

Air combat is nearly done, needs a lot of testing, and I already started working on some ground missions. I should release an alpha in the next days :)
That's good news! I hope it will be a public alpha, so I can try it too. :D I can't wait to kill some T-600s. >:)

About the HKs, they will be hunting our transports o just patroling/doing missions like the normal UFOs?

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 15, 2018, 03:49:56 pm
About the HKs, they will be hunting our transports o just patroling/doing missions like the normal UFOs?

Some HKs are set to prioritize hunting and shooting down your transports - every time you send a transport to an area that you don't have coverage you'll need to send an escort or risk losing the transport (either on its way to or from the mission site)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Gordonmull on February 15, 2018, 06:38:03 pm
 
Quote
Air combat is nearly done, needs a lot of testing, and I already started working on some ground missions. I should release an alpha in the next days

YEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!! :D :D :D

Sorry, did I give away my excitement there?

Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 15, 2018, 08:01:37 pm
Some HKs are set to prioritize hunting and shooting down your transports - every time you send a transport to an area that you don't have coverage you'll need to send an escort or risk losing the transport (either on its way to or from the mission site)
Sounds great. How many types of Machines will be in the mod?

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 15, 2018, 08:07:27 pm

YEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!! :D :D :D

Sorry, did I give away my excitement there?
I'm just like you! Terminator is one of my favorite sci-fi sagas and I'm excited to play a mod of such quality based on this series. As we say in Mexico, "estará chingón". :D

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 15, 2018, 08:30:29 pm
Sounds great. How many types of Machines will be in the mod?

Bad news is: there's only 1 type of Terminator and 3 HKs that are available at the moment.  I have some other robotic units but they don't look like terminators at all, so I'm not using them in the mod right now.

Good news is: you won't see anything from the original XCom during tactical combat since there's the Osprey transport, new armor skins for soldiers and new weapons.  You might see some of the original terrains or civilians but I'm working to replace those. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 15, 2018, 09:54:28 pm


Bad news is: there's only 1 type of Terminator and 3 HKs that are available at the moment.  I have some other robotic units but they don't look like terminators at all, so I'm not using them in the mod right now.

Good news is: you won't see anything from the original XCom during tactical combat since there's the Osprey transport, new armor skins for soldiers and new weapons.  You might see some of the original terrains or civilians but I'm working to replace those. :)

Hey, that isn't bad news at all. Better something than nothing hahaha. :D

I guess the Terminator you say is the T-600, right? They look pretty badass with their Miniguns.

Could you show us some of the new weapons and armors?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180215/30ca90ef3c04f15d814c9f1d269f098b.jpg)

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Gordonmull on February 15, 2018, 11:57:42 pm
Quote
Hey, that isn't bad news at all. Better something than nothing hahaha.

I agree completely. Very soon we're going to have the chance to go after a terminator. That is good news. But how many good people will die in the first battle against the machines?

I'm also very interested to try the air war side of things, though. How tense would it be to commit a "fighter" to support a ground recon mission only to have to dispatch a squad with no air cover and very little choice? Even that opens up choices. Do I send in rookies in case the machines intercept the craft or do I risk vets?

Actually, where are we putting all these planes, Hobbes? Hangars are really big. I'm already planning in my head for 2 fighters, 1 air recon, 1 ground recon and one transport in one base. Doesn't leave much room.
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2018, 12:56:27 am
(https://i.imgur.com/WuZuXFs.png?1)

I'm also very interested to try the air war side of things, though. How tense would it be to commit a "fighter" to support a ground recon mission only to have to dispatch a squad with no air cover and very little choice? Even that opens up choices. Do I send in rookies in case the machines intercept the craft or do I risk vets?

It is tense - I've seen what you describe about having to choose which planes (and crews) to risk.

And it is also very different:
* Your base' radar now feels like a protective bubble where your craft can fly more or less safe without being ambushed by HKs
* That bubble is pretty small when compared to the rest of the continent, and radar planes are critical to conducting ops outside the bubble
* If you place your base in the middle of Skynet's territory, the plane can be attacked the moment it launches
* If you place your base too far from ruined cities (the white Xs) then you risk your transports not being able to reach the supply caches or any other mission that only appear on those locations
* Another thing is that crafts now require pilots and these are chosen from your soldiers (some have piloting skills, others have not) onboard the craft. So, even losing a fighter will cause you to lose personnel.

Quote
Actually, where are we putting all these planes, Hobbes? Hangars are really big. I'm already planning in my head for 2 fighters, 1 air recon, 1 ground recon and one transport in one base. Doesn't leave much room.

I got it covered - current starting base now has 4 Hangars, and each can support 2 planes. There's also some major changes coming to base design, but I still need to figure things out a bit because HK interceptions changed things.
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 16, 2018, 12:57:29 am


I agree completely. Very soon we're going to have the chance to go after a terminator. That is good news. But how many good people will die in the first battle against the machines?

Probably the first assaults will be tough for the Resistance. I wonder if Hobbes will put the rifles we saw in the "Future War" part of the first two Terminator films of just simple M4 Carbines and MP5s of T:Salvation.

Quote
I'm also very interested to try the air war side of things, though. How tense would it be to commit a "fighter" to support a ground recon mission only to have to dispatch a squad with no air cover and very little choice? Even that opens up choices. Do I send in rookies in case the machines intercept the craft or do I risk vets?

Haha maybe the rookies won't be useless as in OpenXcom. Remember, there are few survirving humans, every soldier counts.

Quote
Actually, where are we putting all these planes, Hobbes? Hangars are really big. I'm already planning in my head for 2 fighters, 1 air recon, 1 ground recon and one transport in one base. Doesn't leave much room.

It's the same problem with me. Too many aircraft, very little room for them. xD

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 16, 2018, 01:23:38 am
(https://i.imgur.com/WuZuXFs.png?1)

I like the new sprites.

Quote
It is tense - I've seen what you describe about having to choose which planes (and crews) to risk.

And it is also very different:
* Your base' radar now feels like a protective bubble where your craft can fly more or less safe without being ambushed by HKs
* That bubble is pretty small when compared to the rest of the continent, and radar planes are critical to conducting ops outside the bubble
* If you place your base in the middle of Skynet's territory, the plane can be attacked the moment it launches
* If you place your base too far from ruined cities (the white Xs) then you risk your transports not being able to reach the supply caches or any other mission that only appear on those locations
* Another thing is that crafts now require pilots and these are chosen from your soldiers (some have piloting skills, others have not) onboard the craft. So, even losing a fighter will cause you to lose personnel.

OH MY GOSH, pilots! <3 That's a great idea!
And it totally make the air combat more strategical.

Quote
I got it covered - current starting base now has 4 Hangars, and each can support 2 planes. There's also some major changes coming to base design, but I still need to figure things out a bit because HK interceptions changed things.

Well, that solves my problem.



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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2018, 01:38:41 am

Probably the first assaults will be tough for the Resistance. I wonder if Hobbes will put the rifles we saw in the "Future War" part of the first two Terminator films of just simple M4 Carbines and MP5s of T:Salvation.

Future War.

Tech-Com starts as the Resistance sector leaders realize that Skynet will win once it gains control of enough resources and territory to support its war effort, despite their success fighting a guerrilla war, because the technological curve favors the AI.  The high command then decides to create a Tech Command from the existing 'tech-comm' units on each sector and invert the tech curve.

Here's the current ideas for Tech-Com bases:
* Besides piloting, I've ask Meridian to check if it would be possible to have soldiers act also as engineers and scientists, i.e., some soldiers are spawned with those abilities and you can assign them to labs/workshops or bring them on missions if there's a need (and they can fight and die also during base defense).
* Bases facilities are initially built on the surface, on existing civilian buildings adapted by Tech-Com, and they'll take less time to build. Or some you can build underground versions to better protect them and your soldiers but they'll cost and take more time to build.
* Living Quarters, Stores, Lab and Workshop are now 20x20 facilities instead of 10x10. But Labs and Workshops now have a maximum space for 5 scientists/engineers (research/manufacture time will also decrease on the same proportion)
* Base Defense should work slightly differently: the starting missile defenses will be effective against most HKs trying to attack a base, but the HKs involved will vary and carry different numbers of Terminators. Some attacks will be minor raids (but which still can kill people), while on others you can and will lose the base.
* On Base Defense the terminators are deployed from the air, so they can start anywhere, specially on top of buildings. Most of your soldiers will start on specific locations, and there will be also civilians either carrying weapons or spawning in the same locations where your base items appear (so they can actually pick a gun and fight).

* General Stores, Living Quarters, Labs and Workshops are now 20x20 maps instead of 10x10
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 16, 2018, 01:59:03 am



* Bases facilities are initially built on the surface, on existing civilian buildings adapted by Tech-Com, and they'll take less time to build. Or some you can build underground versions to better protect them and your soldiers but they'll cost and take more time to build.

Can we build bunkers, barricades or some kind of defenses, besides Missile Defenses?

Quote
Base Defense should work slightly differently: the starting missile defenses will be effective against most HKs trying to attack a base, but the HKs involved will vary and carry different numbers of Terminators. Some attacks will be minor raids (but which still can kill people), while on others you can and will lose the base.

* On Base Defense the terminators are deployed from the air, so they can start anywhere, specially on top of buildings. Most of your soldiers will start on specific locations, and there will be also civilians either carrying weapons or spawning in the same locations where your base items appear (so they can actually pick a gun and fight).

Yay, that's what I'm talking about! The refugees and other civilians will be useful defending the base.

Would you add some mini HKs in ground missions, so we can blow them with RPGs?

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2018, 03:11:22 am
Would you add some mini HKs in ground missions, so we can blow them with RPGs?

At this stage anything is possible, if someone designs the sprites for it :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 16, 2018, 03:51:12 am
At this stage anything is possible, if someone designs the sprites for it :)
Haha too bad I suck doing sprites. :(

Talking about HWPs, do you have planned to add any for the Resistance? Some technicals or mini drones, maybe?

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2018, 07:27:36 am
(https://i.imgur.com/ka7CTnR.png?1)

Several different types of missions displayed, most within range of the base's transports (roughly half the radius of the displayed circle)
* Blue cross - Assist Resistance forces
* Green cross - Resistance Supply Drops
* Pink cross - Defend Resistance forces
* Red cross - Defend Civilians
* Green square - Abandoned base (supplies)
* Other pink symbols - different types of Skynet bases. Pink square is a factory that has already placed a 2nd HK base (V) in the region
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 16, 2018, 12:24:11 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ka7CTnR.png?1)

Several different types of missions displayed, most within range of the base's transports (roughly half the radius of the displayed circle)
* Blue cross - Assist Resistance forces
* Green cross - Resistance Supply Drops
* Pink cross - Defend Resistance forces
* Red cross - Defend Civilians
* Green square - Abandoned base (supplies)
* Other pink symbols - different types of Skynet bases. Pink square is a factory that has already placed a 2nd HK base (V) in the region
How many missions will be avaliable at the same time? Is there going to be some penalty if we don't accept some of them?

This is looking sooo good, Hobbes! You are making my childhood dream come true, a good Terminator game. :'D

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Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2018, 02:07:35 pm
How many missions will be avaliable at the same time? Is there going to be some penalty if we don't accept some of them?
[/quote]

These are my current ideas for the frequency of missions/gameplay:
* The whole world will be more 'sandbox' than the original game - you'll have objectives to win the game, but you'll achieve them by expanding to other regions and discovering/assaulting specific Skynet bases
* Unlike the original Skynet and the Resistance start more or well balanced regarding some techs, but the machines will eventually start deploying more advanced terminator models (T-1000?)
* Unlike the original you won't have to shoot down every HK you detect or send squads to all the mission sites - it will depend on what's available (within reach of your transports) and your supply needs.
* The mission sites will be spread over the month, and they will only happen in regions with Tech-Com bases. So as you spread your presence, those mission sites will also spread to other regions.
* Some mission sites, like Supply Drops or Assist Resistance Forces don't give any penalty if you don't accept them (and they also last for weeks on the Strategic level). Others like Defend civilians or Resistance forces have a lesser penalty than the original.
* Skynet will also be expanding its presence from the first month - and if you don't strike and destroy the factory on each region it spreads to, then the region will eventually be overrun by Skynet bases and HKs.
* Skynet bases generate missions on their own - the more bases present in a region the more HK activity
* Tech-Com bases will be more 'disposable' - you might just build one to get in reach of a Skynet research facility you need to assault, then abandon the base because it's deep in Skynet territory and will eventually be overrun. And retaliations will be more frequent
Title: Re: [WIP] Tech-Com - Terminator series
Post by: efrenespartano on February 16, 2018, 10:46:07 pm




These are my current ideas for the frequency of missions/gameplay:
* The whole world will be more 'sandbox' than the original game - you'll have objectives to win the game, but you'll achieve them by expanding to other regions and discovering/assaulting specific Skynet bases
* Unlike the original Skynet and the Resistance start more or well balanced regarding some techs, but the machines will eventually start deploying more advanced terminator models (T-1000?)
* Unlike the original you won't have to shoot down every HK you detect or send squads to all the mission sites - it will depend on what's available (within reach of your transports) and your supply needs.
* The mission sites will be spread over the month, and they will only happen in regions with Tech-Com bases. So as you spread your presence, those mission sites will also spread to other regions.
* Some mission sites, like Supply Drops or Assist Resistance Forces don't give any penalty if you don't accept them (and they also last for weeks on the Strategic level). Others like Defend civilians or Resistance forces have a lesser penalty than the original.
* Skynet will also be expanding its presence from the first month - and if you don't strike and destroy the factory on each region it spreads to, then the region will eventually be overrun by Skynet bases and HKs.
* Skynet bases generate missions on their own - the more bases present in a region the more HK activity
* Tech-Com bases will be more 'disposable' - you might just build one to get in reach of a Skynet research facility you need to assault, then abandon the base because it's deep in Skynet territory and will eventually be overrun. And retaliations will be more frequent

So, the War Against the Machines will be slower that the vanilla campaign.

It's great to know that the bases will be cheaper than the XCOM bases. I don't know how many cash have the Resistance in their wallet, but I don't think there's much hahah

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