OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => Topic started by: new_civilian on April 17, 2016, 11:53:57 am

Title: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: new_civilian on April 17, 2016, 11:53:57 am
Just what the topic title says- I wanted a bit more variety in that terrain and the maps already available were no longer enough, so...
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: new_civilian on April 17, 2016, 11:54:54 am
here more screens and the zip.

Beware: The default Farm terrain does not support 20x20 mapblocks, so you better put them into another one, like e.g. Hobbes CULTAFARMA terrain etc.


As usual: Feel free to use these files in any way you see fit. And no, the Outhouse on one of the maps has no real toilet there. The hunter's stand does have a node so sometimes you will see a unit there, hunting wabbits maybe...  ;D


I also fixed the missing corner tiles on all possible farm maps (custom, mine and original), the fix can be downloaded here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4542.msg63461#msg63461
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: hellrazor on April 17, 2016, 12:01:10 pm
Uhhhh.
Simple but nice nice looking. *downloads*
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 17, 2016, 12:13:29 pm
OK, I'm adding this too to the FMP and my other project.
Thanks! :D
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: davide on April 18, 2016, 02:21:11 am
Good!

I remember a mine old post about some original contents for farm terrain

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3403.msg43760.html#msg43760 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3403.msg43760.html#msg43760)

Unfortunately, It remains incomplete
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2016, 03:05:41 am
Good!

I remember a mine old post about some original contents for farm terrain

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3403.msg43760.html#msg43760 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3403.msg43760.html#msg43760)

Unfortunately, It remains incomplete

Yeah, it doesn't really mesh with Farm well, but could be a very nice new terrain. Actually I've been looking at your tiles earlier today, but haven't come up with anything concrete yet. If it's supposed to be new terrain, it needs a lot of work!
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: davide on April 18, 2016, 09:00:13 am
Map tilsets Cultivat+Barn have only 65 tile,
New "Farm" tileset could integrate it

The major effort is to make the new MCD ... :-[
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Blank on April 18, 2016, 05:56:13 pm
More additions to the old farm terrain has to be good. Looks a lot more rural and less built up this way.
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: yrizoud on April 18, 2016, 07:25:49 pm
About New_civilians's terrain : I'm sorry but I don't find these very good  :( The idea of using a road in center, to split the fields in 4, is completely different from what the original farm did, so they don't "meld" well together.
Also, tactically, they don't seem like very interesting terrains. There are very few things more than 1x1 to block line of sight, and so many axes of symmetry that the terrains behave the same, no matter how they are arranged together.
IMO, extra "farm" blocks could include :
- cattle shelters and work cabins : small (3-5 tiles wide), with no door, because an entire wall is open. These are always dangerous places to approach then safe to hide in.
- In the fields, packed hay should be where the tall grass has been cut. Good opportunity for assymetry, and if the packed hay is close to the east or south borders, climbing on them may allow peeking - a lot of farm blocks have a hedge on north and west.
- Large pile of dung dirt could be used as a minor spot of elevation (1 level high, 4x4 or 6x6). Always interesting to hide behind or climb on top.

edit: I tried with MapView, there are really few tiles in CULTIVAT and FARM :/
Here are two blocks which illustrate what I meant : the partially cropped field on left (mostly for flavor, the packed hay is really not tall), and a cattle shelter on right.
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: yrizoud on April 19, 2016, 04:15:54 pm
Well sorry but it was not clear ("8 new farm terrain mapblocks", sounds like a add-on to the original 18) If you mean it as a stand-alone terrain, there's no consistency problem.
And if I tried my hand at map editing, it was not to say "I can easily do better". I wanted to clarify my meaning when possible, and see what is impossible due to lack of available tiles. And indeed, the tile set is extremely reduced, so I can't really blame your maps for having few 3D shapes.
I only want to be productive, if I can. Isometric drawing is not my specialty, but I can try draw blocks. Are there tiles which you'd like, for a farm terrain or something else ? Something for a cylindrical silo ? Man-sized hay bales to hide behind ? Propane tank to blow up?
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 19, 2016, 05:33:28 pm
Making another farm tileset is a sorely needed thing. Davide linked some resources which while a bit incompatible visually can be a good starter.

New tiles I would suggest, in addition to your post:
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Hobbes on April 19, 2016, 06:45:39 pm
Making another farm tileset is a sorely needed thing. Davide linked some resources which while a bit incompatible visually can be a good starter.

New tiles I would suggest, in addition to your post:
  • Some farm machinery. Something like a small tractor would suffice.
  • Some small architecture which can't be built with normal tiles, like a well (4 tiles?) or a doghouse.
  • Some wooden blocks lying around.
  • Trees. The ones from the forest are good enough.
  • Freshly cultivated ground (a bit slower movement?).
  • More plants. We have potatoes and wheat, why not tomatoes, corn or rape? That would be easy to draw.
  • Stone walls, Irish style (think Diablo). Low "fences" or maybe even actual walls.
  • Stones. The big ones from the Mountain terrain.
  • A pond? :)

Cows
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: ivandogovich on April 19, 2016, 06:53:45 pm
Cows

Heh. Cow Punching from JA2 :)
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: yrizoud on April 19, 2016, 09:57:04 pm
Well, the way the tile system works, you know what's going to happen...
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 19, 2016, 11:46:13 pm
Well, the way the tile system works, you know what's going to happen...

Brilliant! :D

And yeah, I'm... planning doing cows at some point. Actually collected a few sprites from other games.

And cats. I always wanted cats as civilians.
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: hellrazor on April 20, 2016, 12:56:57 am
Cows!!!
Cows would really be awesome. but we actually had to make them 2x2 tiles so they aestetically link up with the Cows found in UFO's like the Harvesters.
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Hobbes on April 20, 2016, 01:49:43 am
Cows!!!
Cows would really be awesome. but we actually had to make them 2x2 tiles so they aestetically link up with the Cows found in UFO's like the Harvesters.

Yeah, the cows need to be based on the ones found in the Harvesters.

But let us not be restricted to bovines: there's also goats, sheep, pigs, llamas, yaks, chickens, ostriches, turkeys, alligators...
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: jgatkinsn on April 20, 2016, 02:59:33 pm
And what about corn/maize...

Did you say corn maze?
Title: Re: [MAPS] Eight new 20x20 Farm Terrain Mapblocks
Post by: Hobbes on April 22, 2016, 11:45:09 pm
Actually I said MAIZE  ;D

fwiw: I made a quick-n-dirty alternative farm terrain/color, It is 100% compatible to the old terrain (which it basically is, only recolored) I will leave it here in case someone wants it. I am not entirely satisfied with the look, I was trying to make it look a bit more modern, but somehow the original  tileset is not very flexible...  :-\

and yes there are prunes in that tree  ;D

I'll use it if you finish it. I have two suggestions: recolor the fences from the current dark grey to a brown different that the vanilla fences, and the brownish interior floors are too geometrical for a farm environment.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm Mapblocks +default map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Hobbes on April 24, 2016, 07:15:34 am
Here, the two fixed maps. One was of my farm terrain addon, the other one is an original map (!)

Check those corners people :)

The outside looks great and new, but the walls and fences look to me as too pink. Can you try a different tone?
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm Mapblocks +default map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 24, 2016, 11:28:37 am
How about this? I made it from a Diablo dungeon wall. I think it really suits the "Irish barn" idea.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm Mapblocks +default map fixes +Terrain
Post by: new_civilian on April 25, 2016, 01:31:03 pm
Ok, these are all the final versions. c_unpinked and ccc are identical except for the color of the fences

HOWEVER, I found more bugs (missing corners) on several maps and fixed them.

btw, I deleted some of my posts as this thread became too confusing, my fault....
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm Mapblocks +default map fixes +Terrain
Post by: davide on April 25, 2016, 01:56:49 pm
perhaps exchange wall tiles ?

I mean that the "Stone" tile  are better for the low building floor and wood for the upper

but it dependes how the tiles were used of the other maps
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm Mapblocks +default map fixes +Terrain
Post by: new_civilian on April 25, 2016, 02:06:38 pm
perhaps exchange wall tiles ?

I mean that the "Stone" tile  are better for the low building floor and wood for the upper

but it dependes how the tiles were used of the other maps

Oops, yes you are right, I fixed that.^ Thanks, davide.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: davide on April 25, 2016, 02:08:03 pm
In mine opinion, "Cows", or other animals, has to be same civilian units, with very low penality.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Arthanor on April 25, 2016, 02:56:39 pm
But then you have the risk of aliens shooting a cow instead of a soldier.. how is the AI's target priority set?
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Xtendo-com on April 25, 2016, 02:59:00 pm
with very low penality.
Imagine report of the next month (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4559.msg63345.html#msg63345)

how is the AI's target priority set?
Find nearest target and shoot if visible.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Arthanor on April 25, 2016, 03:23:00 pm
Hum.. so shoot the nearest cow instead of the soldier pointing the rocket launcher at you? Not great..

Maybe we need another category of civilians like units that the AI ignores. That'd have potential for alien sympathisers and somewhat neutral factions.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Xtendo-com on April 25, 2016, 03:36:06 pm
Hum.. so shoot the nearest cow instead of the soldier pointing the rocket launcher at you? Not great..
In firsts turns you should exit from transporter as safely as possible. One turn you will skip anyway with thrown smoke grenade. I don't think that animals survive after a few turns. Most of them will be killed. So you can rarely use animal as cover.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: davide on April 25, 2016, 03:53:57 pm

Maybe we need another category of civilians like units that the AI ignores. That'd have potential for alien sympathisers and somewhat neutral factions.

For that we need help by Developers.

But the animals are for scenario decoration not for save them.

Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Xtendo-com on April 25, 2016, 09:01:11 pm
For that we need help by Developers.

But the animals are for scenario decoration not for save them.
If there are will be enough ready to use units, I think it will not be abandoned and will be introduced without weirdness like civilians with sprites of animals.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: yrizoud on April 25, 2016, 09:44:24 pm
Quote
without weirdness
Making the aliens ignore them is one thing, but then the only way to have them appear in logical places and not wander where they'll be nuisances is going to require a manual placement by the mapper (and the mapping tools and formats are barely able to handle the existing openxcom features)
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: new_civilian on April 26, 2016, 12:17:01 pm
About the cows: Give them a value of 1 (instead of 20 or 30 like normal human civilians) and add a special "STOP THE CATTLE MUTILATION" mission on a farm terrain.


Back to Hobbes:

Look I made this with BombBloke's MCDADD, it combines my new fences with the original ones in one MCD. It is completely untested, though, I haven't used MCDADD before....


REMOVED CURSED FILE
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Hobbes on April 26, 2016, 03:14:50 pm
About the cows: Give them a value of 1 (instead of 20 or 30 like normal human civilians) and add a special "STOP THE CATTLE MUTILATION" mission on a farm terrain.


Back to Hobbes:

Look I made this with BombBloke's MCDADD, it combines my new fences with the original ones in one MCD. It is completely untested, though, I haven't used MCDADD before....

You need to add them to BARN or just make a new MCD set, otherwise if you use that one to place the vanilla CULTIVAT tileset it will completely mess up the existing maps.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: new_civilian on April 26, 2016, 04:40:52 pm
Oh man, that's it. I simply give up messing around with those mcd's. And with the farm terrain. I can not see any more farm maps or I gonna....  >:(

*explodes*  :D

Anyway. In the post above the untested mcd (*curses it*) the simple and only recolored one is available. Just forget the added/edited one. (*curses it again*)
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: yrizoud on April 26, 2016, 05:53:23 pm
You need to add them to BARN or just make a new MCD set, otherwise if you use that one to place the vanilla CULTIVAT tileset it will completely mess up the existing maps.
Can you please check if I understand your meaning correctly ?
A map (-block?) relies on a ordered list of MCD files
example :
 1) uses A.MCD, 10 entries
 2) uses B.MCD, 15 entries
Then map will refer to individual tiles by index 0-24 : 0-9 are those of A.MCD, 10-24 are those of B.MCD
-> Adding a tile in A.MCD, even "at the end", breaks the map because indexes 10 starts referring to this new tile instead of "first tile of B.MCD", etc.
Adding tiles 'only in MCDs which are only used last' sounds flaky, so I guess a rule of thumb is to not add, insert, delete or renumber any tiles to a MCD after it's released publically, unless you're sure that you can adapt every map that uses it.
Title: Re: [MAPS] 20x20 ALT/Farm +Map fixes +Terrain
Post by: Hobbes on April 26, 2016, 06:07:11 pm
Can you please check if I understand your meaning correctly ?
A map (-block?) relies on a ordered list of MCD files
example :
 1) uses A.MCD, 10 entries
 2) uses B.MCD, 15 entries
Then map will refer to individual tiles by index 0-24 : 0-9 are those of A.MCD, 10-24 are those of B.MCD
-> Adding a tile in A.MCD, even "at the end", breaks the map because indexes 10 starts referring to this new tile instead of "first tile of B.MCD", etc.
Adding tiles 'only in MCDs which are only used last' sounds flaky, so I guess a rule of thumb is to not add, insert, delete or renumber any tiles to a MCD after it's released publically, unless you're sure that you can adapt every map that uses it.

Yup, you got it :)