OpenXcom Forum

Modding => OpenXcom Extended => Topic started by: Meridian on January 15, 2016, 08:22:26 pm

Title: [DONE] Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Meridian on January 15, 2016, 08:22:26 pm
Hello everyone,

a bit of a background first.

Before OpenXcom, I was rage quitting every time I couldn't go on a mission because my Skyranger was "only" 80% refueled. Now we have the wonderful option to "force craft launch", which solves almost all problems. Or at least it did, until the mods came...

1/ First issue is the rearming and repairing time (mostly repairing). Because in most mods, which try to make the game harder, you don't have plasma cannons in Month 3... you will get damaged a lot. And because of repair->rearm->refuel order, your craft may be out of order for a long time if you have used up all the fuel.

Note: people suggested to change the maintenance order to refuel->rearm->repair ... but I think that goes against the idea of making the dogfights harder... so after careful consideration I am against such a change... not even as optional feature

2/ Second issue is with completely new craft... like the radar-equipped craft from FMP (i forgot the names of all 3 of them :P) or PirateZ (pigeon, zeppelin, ...).  They don't need to be repaired or rearmed, just refueled... and in this case, you actually want them to refuel to 100%. And now when I am actually using them, it happens to me that I decide to wait for refuel... but get distracted (by other things :P) and forget about it completely. Then I am angry.

And now finally the questions:

I was thinking, let's return back to basics... all I wanted in xcom (before openxcom) was a pop-up message when the craft is refueled and ready.

1/ Would this make sense to you even now in OpenXcom?
2/ And if yes, would it make sense for all craft or only for selected craft types (e.g. don't bother me with interceptors and skyrangers since I have "force launch" option on anyway, only inform me about my radar-capable craft)
3/ Or even a combination: if force launch is turned on, inform only about radar craft... otherwise inform about all craft?
4/ Or make a new property for craft... and let modders decide which should inform the user and which not... potentially with an option for the user to turn it off completely?
5/ Or a combination of all the above:
That is a user option with 4 possibilities:
a) always inform
b) inform about radar craft only
c) inform about craft recommended by the mod(s)/moddder(s) only
d) never inform

Looking forward to fruitful discussion... no wheelchairs this time please.
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: XOps on January 15, 2016, 09:42:13 pm
1/ First issue is the rearming and repairing time (mostly repairing). Because in most mods, which try to make the game harder, you don't have plasma cannons in Month 3... you will get damaged a lot. And because of repair->rearm->refuel order, your craft may be out of order for a long time if you have used up all the fuel.

Note: people suggested to change the maintenance order to refuel->rearm->repair ... but I think that goes against the idea of making the dogfights harder... so after careful consideration I am against such a change... not even as optional feature

Agree with issue one. Players need to devote more resources to interceptors in this case. The only time I find this a problem is when I neglect to build a fleet of interceptors. Though I wouldn't be against the option to redo the order to refuel->rearm->repair, I just wouldn't use it. To each their own though.

As for issue two.
Having recently added a radar craft to my mod, I share this particular lack of vigilance when it comes to managing patrol craft. They are very easy to get lost in the shuffle. However, to be honest, I hate popups in both game and when browsing the internet. Even those UFO alerts get tiresome during the late game. I would rather have an automated process.
This would be my suggestion: A way to have the craft automatically launch after refuel. Something like this.
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4228.0;attach=20062;image)
Upon refueling to 100%, the craft would automatically launch and return back to the last patrol point. It would have the downside of forcing the player to reassign the way point should they wish to move the patrol. No idea how difficult this would be to program since it would require altering the UI.
Just an idea. I am sure some of the vets around here could come up with something far better. Just keep in mind that some of us hate popups.
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: yrizoud on January 16, 2016, 01:28:06 am
^ This is very clever.
An UI variant would be to make use of the notification "craft is out of fuel" :
At the moment there's only an OK button; there could be a second button for a command "Return here when refueled".
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Dioxine on January 16, 2016, 11:55:46 am
I think you've already solved this problem, Meridian, by adding that "REFUELLING:X HRS" info in the Interception window. I hated to have to go to the base to see if my Pigeon is ready yet. Now I can check them all with just a single command. This is good enough for me, and I HATE superfluous popups :)
I'm against automatization Yrizoud proposes, as well. IMO this crosses the line between "helping the player" and "putting the player in the backseat". This is dangerous because player is an easily spoiled crature. I'd use the option out of laziness, but my experience would be worsened none the less. Naturally I won't fight it to the death, just my very very subjective opinion, as the line between 'player has too much to do' and 'player has too little to do' is a very blurry one.
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Meridian on January 16, 2016, 01:12:22 pm
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me.
How could I forget... this was one of the reasons why I even started writing the post... I guess it took too long to write and I forgot in the meantime.

The feature  "refueling: x hrs" is (most likely) never gonna get into OXC or even OXCE, because:
- it makes translation hard... adding even more info to already full screen, pushing it to the upper limit
- is not "self-explanatory":
  * the number actually displays the total = repair + rearm + refuel time
  * i.e. when you see repairs: 120 hours, the repairs actually take less, because there's also rearm and refuel added
  * and changing it to only show one component, would make it useless... I don't need to see repair: 1 hour if it's gonna take 17 more hours to rearm and refuel

So, I am looking for replacements of this feature.

One is the pop-up... but many people (including me) don't like them too much.... it would definitely be optional.

Second option (both could work nicely in parallel btw.) would be the auto-patrol functionality proposed by XOps... where to put it is another question:
a/ confirm waypoint by XOps
b/ out of fuel notification by yrizoud
c/ my proposal would actually be on the craft info (where you have buttons: return to base, patrol, cancel, etc.), there would be a new button "Start/Stop Auto-patrol"

I don't think it is crossing the line... and if yes, you have crossed the line as well in PirateZ, just in a different way... Zeppelin doesn't consume any fuel when stationary, so you "put the player into a backseat" as well.

I will implement something later and we'll see how it works... my fork is still only adding features to see and test them in action... but at some point I will start removing features, which didn't prove useful too.
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Dioxine on January 16, 2016, 01:47:33 pm
The difference is, you have to research the zeppelin and build a fleet of them, and pay for them. Also it is useless for any other purpose. Making mechanics out of it gives that functionality to *all* crafts. It'd basically remove much of the rationale for using mobile radar bases like Zeppelins at all, since any craft with normal radar range could perform the same function. Or much of the rationale for building normal radar bases, if you think about this.
However, this is not saying your ideas do not make sense, quite the opposite. The auto patrol does make sense, and if it's on, you have to add function to refuel & continue the patrol automatically, if you don't the player to go insane...
so:
1. auto patrol button. The screen is too cluttered, so it should pop up another window, with:
- list of waypoints. This list should be editable by add & remove waypoints buttons.
- possibility to add home base as a waypoint for refuelling, if you want to be neat
- calculated path length in fuel %?
- button to stop auto-patrol? Not needed, you automatically stop it by giving the craft an order. But the list should remain saved, just in case.
I'm against any notifications other than on the Interception screen ('auto-patrolling' displayed next to the craft name). Yeah it will remove player's influence but clicking confirmation every time you're low on fuel? You'd be doing that a lot when using this, so, no.

pros: everyone can easily play on the 'insane micromanager' level;
cons: this disturbs the game balance for everyone who isn't an insane micromanager; adds to savefile size; might cause bugs

Yeah, this sounds like worth it.
Just don't dare to *replace* the current feature, it is immensely useful :)
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Eddie on February 01, 2016, 10:03:40 pm
How about adding a button to the craft equipment screen "notify when ready" that can be clicked when the craft is in repair/refuel/rearm mode?
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Meridian on March 24, 2016, 01:39:11 pm
As for issue two.
Having recently added a radar craft to my mod, I share this particular lack of vigilance when it comes to managing patrol craft. They are very easy to get lost in the shuffle. However, to be honest, I hate popups in both game and when browsing the internet. Even those UFO alerts get tiresome during the late game. I would rather have an automated process.
This would be my suggestion: A way to have the craft automatically launch after refuel. Something like this.
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4228.0;attach=20062;image)
Upon refueling to 100%, the craft would automatically launch and return back to the last patrol point. It would have the downside of forcing the player to reassign the way point should they wish to move the patrol. No idea how difficult this would be to program since it would require altering the UI.
Just an idea. I am sure some of the vets around here could come up with something far better. Just keep in mind that some of us hate popups.

I have added this feature to my build.

The Auto-Patrol button is on different screen though (craft info... instead of Patrol button).
The auto-patrol support is defined per craft type, with flag autoPatrol: true

No more pop ups, craft goes back to base when low on fuel and after refuel goes back to the same spot.

Auto-patrol can be cancelled by manually selecting a new target or by manually returning to base.
Title: Re: Hey player, I am now refueled and ready!
Post by: Countdown on March 26, 2016, 01:07:22 pm
How about adding a button to the craft equipment screen "notify when ready" that can be clicked when the craft is in repair/refuel/rearm mode?
I think this would be helpful in regular OXC. When I am in need of a craft that is repairing/refueling I find I am going into the equip craft screen multiple times to check on how long it has. I know that it says "x hours" and you can look at the time and do the math, but if sometimes you want the craft the second it's ready and if you aren't paying careful attention to the clock you could miss it. So clicking for an optional notification sounds very useful.