OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => Area 51 => Topic started by: hellrazor on February 07, 2015, 09:49:49 am

Title: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
Post by: hellrazor on February 07, 2015, 09:49:49 am
Started testplaying, but changed the capacity for Skyranger and Avenger back to original. Because i don't like smaller teams and i like my tanks.

I also changed my Laser Canon back to original because cash cows are needed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XCOMFan419 on February 07, 2015, 10:56:51 am
Because i don't like smaller teams and i like my tanks.
100% yes

Look coming from the author of the on-hold Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh My! mod, I find that a lot of people like tanks. I won't likely play your mod if I can't bring a tank on my missions. It's a personal must for me personally and a few others (Since I know some people find tanks useless)

But if you do not hear my words, then at least have some side doors (or open sides) for a small portion of the Skyranger and Avenger. If I am going to be playing with smaller teams, I want to see what's at the side of my skyranger before I send out my rookies to take the first hit instead of my tanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 07, 2015, 03:48:21 pm
Started testplaying, but changed the capacity for Skyranger and Avenger back to original. Because i don't like smaller teams and i like my tanks.

I also changed my Laser Canon back to original because cash cows are needed.

OK, but be informed that I've reduced the number of aliens on most missions to balance for the 10 man Skyranger, so you'll most likely overwhelm the aliens on these missions if you bring 14 units.

100% yes

Look coming from the author of the on-hold Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh My! mod, I find that a lot of people like tanks. I won't likely play your mod if I can't bring a tank on my missions. It's a personal must for me personally and a few others (Since I know some people find tanks useless)

You can still bring HWPs with the 10 man Skyranger but they become even more important since losing them will hurt you more.

What if the HWP armor and health are updated like in the XComUtil option for Improved Tanks? That would make them last a bit longer.

Quote
But if you do not hear my words, then at least have some side doors (or open sides) for a small portion of the Skyranger and Avenger. If I am going to be playing with smaller teams, I want to see what's at the side of my skyranger before I send out my rookies to take the first hit instead of my tanks.

I have this impression that side doors can be even more dangerous because the aliens will also be able to see and fire at you. Unless we use the original Skyranger and stick the side doors next to the cockpit because that way there will be space to keep away from the doors (with a 10 man squad).

But at the same time, I'm designing a special mission where your objective is to raid a secret facility and try to collect as many research as possible: improved conventional, lasers, advanced materials, new HWPs, Improved Interceptor and Skyranger. But with some caveats: there will only be 3 of these improvements available to recover; you can be certain to recover 1 tech, not so certain to recover 2 of them, and almost impossible to recover 3. This is because of the map size (100x100) and the number of enemies (there will be 50+ enemy units present on the entire map).

So a 14 unit improved Skyranger is almost a certainty but the thing is that if you don't get it on the 1st month then it might be some time until this mission pops up again.

Either way, this issue of the reduced Skyranger (and Avenger) capacity is not set on stone: I want to see how it goes during playtesting.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on February 07, 2015, 06:13:33 pm
I actually tried to get this mod running on my Linux machine here, but the game always fails to the improvedglobe.dat.
I checked filenames and filelocations, they are ok. But Openxcom is still not able to load it.

Well found the Problem...
When opening the file with my trusty vim text editor each line had "^M" at the end. Removed those.

WEll mod still nod loading because can't IMPROVEDGLOBE.DAT
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 07, 2015, 06:57:31 pm
I actually tried to get this mod running on my Linux machine here, but the game always fails to the improvedglobe.dat.
I checked filenames and filelocations, they are ok. But Openxcom is still not able to load it.

Well found the Problem...
When opening the file with my trusty vim text editor each line had "^M" at the end. Removed those.

From what I've just read the issue is that your Linux machine is reading wrong the Windows characters: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5843495/what-does-m-character-mean-in-vim (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5843495/what-does-m-character-mean-in-vim)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on February 07, 2015, 07:43:19 pm
From what I've just read the issue is that your Linux machine is reading wrong the Windows characters: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5843495/what-does-m-character-mean-in-vim (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5843495/what-does-m-character-mean-in-vim)

Jeah i already removed them, but the Mod still isn't able to load IMPROVEDGLOBE.DAT
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Yankes on February 07, 2015, 08:00:25 pm
File name case is right? Most cases mods on Linux don't work because of that.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Duke_Falcon on February 07, 2015, 08:04:46 pm
Where could it possibly download?
I not promise to play it through but I certainly want to give it a try.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 07, 2015, 08:05:21 pm
File name case is right? Most cases mods on Linux don't work because of that.

Yeah, it is right. We've discussed this on the IRC channel right now.

Where could it possibly download?
I not promise to play it through but I certainly want to give it a try.
Link is in the first post or here (https://www.openxcom.com/content/files/d3d82c0e/UFO%20REDUX%20v0.1.zip) (requires nightly 2015_01_21_0537 or more recent)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: NebulaM78 on February 08, 2015, 04:42:25 am
I have experienced a crash on the very first mission (a landed UFO). It was a medium scout, which didn't have any usual UFO items like the power source in it except for a Sectoid corpse. Also the crew are Mercenaries. After killing all the Mercenaries, the game crashes when I try to end the mission.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 08, 2015, 07:53:06 am
I have experienced a crash on the very first mission (a landed UFO). It was a medium scout, which didn't have any usual UFO items like the power source in it except for a Sectoid corpse. Also the crew are Mercenaries. After killing all the Mercenaries, the game crashes when I try to end the mission.

OK, I got the bug. The Sectoid Corpse is what's causing the crash for some unknown reason. It's strange because it generates the corpse but for some reason it crashes when the mission ends, most likely during the recovery and it's probably because the corpse doesn't belong to any unit.

I'll post a fix for this tomorrow but from what I've tested so far, I'll have to remove the corpse and the idea all together. Meanwhile, if you got a saved game of the tactical mission you can continue playing if you edit the save game file and delete the corpse entry.

The idea of having the corpse was that the Mercenaries reached the UFO first than XCom and are in the process of cleaning up the site of alien artifacts.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: NebulaM78 on February 08, 2015, 08:48:24 am
OK, I got the bug. The Sectoid Corpse is what's causing the crash for some unknown reason. It's strange because it generates the corpse but for some reason it crashes when the mission ends, most likely during the recovery and it's probably because the corpse doesn't belong to any unit.

I'll post a fix for this tomorrow. The idea of having the corpse was that the Mercenaries reached the UFO first than XCom and are in the process of cleaning up the site of alien artifacts.

Well that was fast. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 08, 2015, 09:25:18 am
Well that was fast. Thanks in advance.

If you got the game saved you can fix it by editing the file and deleting the Sectoid Corpse entry.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 08, 2015, 05:04:48 pm
I've uploaded version 0.1.1 (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux) (requires nightly 2015_01_21_0537 or more recent) - it fixes the bug with the Sectoid Corpse (had to remove it altogether) and Alien Containment can now be built right from the start like in vanilla.

I'm currently working on some terrain retextures. This is Taiga forest:

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/thumb_JBJIEXYY020820151045.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: volutar on February 08, 2015, 06:51:09 pm
Oh, autumn, how nice. I think it lacks of yellow trees (colorgroup9 and slightly lighter, by 2-3 steps than forest green) and the yellow/red leaves on the ground.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 09, 2015, 12:23:51 am
Oh, autumn, how nice. I think it lacks of yellow trees (colorgroup9 and slightly lighter, by 2-3 steps than forest green) and the yellow/red leaves on the ground.

:)

Grassland tileset on Forest maps
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/VMMTBVPV020820150515.png)

Taiga tileset on Forest maps
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/KBTIEUIK020820150515.png)

Savanna tileset on Forest maps
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/FWKIUDPV020820151131.png)

Steppe tileset on Forest maps
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/OPCOHXCW020820150515.png)

Tundra tileset on Mountain maps
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZACQTDKL020820150515.png)

And I'm merely using the existing vanilla maps and terrains for these images. Because it is also possible to switch the tilesets around and make at least two more Savanna terrains by using the existing mountain and desert maps:

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/JAIONPWG020820151131.png)
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/KINMTODT020820151131.png)

Or take the Tundra tileset and apply it to the Desert maps:
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/WOJXVYTE020820150646.png)

And the best part? You can combine 2 of those tilesets and design maps with 2 kinds of trees (and there's already 3 tree recolors on the images above), etc. :)

Someone please tell Supsuper I'm now waiting for the ability to assign several terrains to the same Geoscape texture. :P
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: the_third_curry on February 09, 2015, 02:13:51 am
I'm about to try this. Does anyone happen to know if it's compatible with Shoes' Soldier Diaries?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on February 09, 2015, 02:37:48 am
I'm about to try this. Does anyone happen to know if it's compatible with Shoes' Soldier Diaries?

At this point, the only conflict I see is with the UFOPedia section.  Shoe's new soldier diaries includes a Commendations mod which rearranges the UFOPedia, but this mod does even more of that.  I'm sure the changes would conflict.   If you are fine with playing without the awards (ribbons and medals) in the commendations mod, just don't enable it, and this mod should work with it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 09, 2015, 03:30:21 am
I'm about to try this. Does anyone happen to know if it's compatible with Shoes' Soldier Diaries?

If you're looking to see those new terrains I still need to work more on them before adding to the expansion. And at this stage nearly all Geoscape textures are already assigned to existing terrains so I can't add anything new to the UFO missions without having to remove something else. The good news is that when the nightlies can support multiple terrains per texture then there will be a lot of new terrains to play since there it will be possible to make a lot of variations.

The Commendations mod should conflict with the UFOPedia.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 09, 2015, 05:37:42 am
I have played around with this mod a bit . Here are my first observations.


I like the small teams. But i think you need to up the weapon damage and give early game armor and more armor choices for late game. In order to have smaller teams soldiers need to deal more damage and die less especially early game.

As I said before I think weapon damage should be higher. For example your Sniper Rifle deals 45 damage and I think aimed shot is like 105% or 115% can't remember. Meanwhile the rifle deals 40 damage. A sniper rifle should be much more powerful than that. I'd make it 80-100 damage and 150% or so aimed. See Equal Terms mod it gets most damage ratios really well and gives early armor choices etc.

I don't mind the alternate tech tree makes the game more challenging and fun.

I don't really find the reorganized ufopedia that useful. Some weapons are in miscellaneous but should be in Weapons and Ammunition .All weapons and ammo should be in that category to be easier to find. Is a bit tricky because you have different organizations now including cultists and MJ12 and Overlord. Maybe something like this?

Council Reports <THIS IS GOOD
HWP, Weapons & Equipment <list ALL xcom usable battlescape gear here including alien/MJ12/cultist ones even if you cannot build them)
UFOs, Crafts & Armament < list all crafts from everyone here and all weapons. all crafts use same weapons anyway for example MJ12 crafts probably very similar to Xcom ones and late game Xcom craft weapons are alien ones.
UFO Components & Artefacts < list alien UFO facilities and artefacts here
Base Facilities
Alien Life Forms & Autopsies <list all autopsies here including MJ12 and cultists and overlord
Alien Research <list alien and overlord researc here
Other Organizations <list MJ12 and cultists research here

Note this ufopedia is 8 long and so you can make it compatible with commendations mod if you so wish.

Also I didn't like how MJ12 are so high tech. I liked the idea of MiB as they are lower tech than XCom and look like men in suits but later become high tech as well. I like the black suits pretty cool. But I like the MJ12 ships that look like skyranger is smart.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 09, 2015, 07:04:00 am
I have played around with this mod a bit . Here are my first observations.


I like the small teams. But i think you need to up the weapon damage and give early game armor and more armor choices for late game. In order to have smaller teams soldiers need to deal more damage and die less especially early game.

Didn't remember about armor with smaller teams *facepalm*

Any suggestion for an early armor?

Quote
As I said before I think weapon damage should be higher. For example your Sniper Rifle deals 45 damage and I think aimed shot is like 105% or 115% can't remember. Meanwhile the rifle deals 40 damage. A sniper rifle should be much more powerful than that. I'd make it 80-100 damage and 150% or so aimed. See Equal Terms mod it gets most damage ratios really well and gives early armor choices etc.

Rifle damage is 30 actually. Isn't 150% an automatic hit for most accuracy levels of the soldiers? The issue with the Equal Term mod is that it removes the vanilla weapons, which is a complete no-no. I'm completely open to suggestions about how to balance the weapons, but the vanilla weapons need to stay as they are.

Quote
I don't really find the reorganized ufopedia that useful. Some weapons are in miscellaneous but should be in Weapons and Ammunition .All weapons and ammo should be in that category to be easier to find. Is a bit tricky because you have different organizations now including cultists and MJ12 and Overlord. Maybe something like this?

Council Reports <THIS IS GOOD
HWP, Weapons & Equipment <list ALL xcom usable battlescape gear here including alien/MJ12/cultist ones even if you cannot build them)
UFOs, Crafts & Armament < list all crafts from everyone here and all weapons. all crafts use same weapons anyway for example MJ12 crafts probably very similar to Xcom ones and late game Xcom craft weapons are alien ones.
UFO Components & Artefacts < list alien UFO facilities and artefacts here
Base Facilities
Alien Life Forms & Autopsies <list all autopsies here including MJ12 and cultists and overlord
Alien Research <list alien and overlord researc here
Other Organizations <list MJ12 and cultists research here

Note this ufopedia is 8 long and so you can make it compatible with commendations mod if you so wish.

Hm. All the info you get from MJ12/Cultists are from interrogations/autopsies, so it isn't that much (10 topics). I don't mind moving things around so that there is room for an extra topic, but that means it will only be compatible with only 1 mod that changes the UFOPedia. This is something that could be done later in the future with a separate ruleset but for the time being I don't think it's a good idea to have to mimic the UFOPedia on the Commendations mod because on the different topics on this UFOPedia.

Btw, have you seen the full UFOPedia in the debug mode?

Quote
Also I didn't like how MJ12 are so high tech. I liked the idea of MiB as they are lower tech than XCom and look like men in suits but later become high tech as well. I like the black suits pretty cool. But I like the MJ12 ships that look like skyranger is smart.

The reason why they are so high tech is actually to allow the player to recover a stockpile of advanced conventional weapons on the first month to help until you can unlock laser/plasma research. Also, after the first month it can be difficult to encounter them again, since the engine has 9 alien and 3 faction missions (1 being the MJ12 one) to choose randomly when generation the monthly mission.

Knowing this, do you still prefer for them to have normal tech conventional weapons?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 09, 2015, 08:07:52 am
I realized I may have looked like a jerk seems I don't like anything about it. But I was only commenting on things that I think can be fixed. I think is a great mod overall it definitely combines a lot of neat things. Like having 5 factions with their own unique weapons and research trees (like omega stuff). The extra cities and terrains . And that you need to capture aliens to get research.


Any suggestion for an early armor?

For armour I recommend two types to start. 

First a light kevlar vest  small reduction to firing aim and throwing accuracy and  gives a bit more  front and back protection than overalls but sides or underneath same as overalls.

Second a full body kevlar armor type that gives more protection at sides and front but relatively less strong (although still more than overalls or vest) behind and also reduces TU, firing aim, stamina, and throwing accuracy.

Then later maybe some variations on personal armor would be nice .

Rifle damage is 30 actually. Isn't 150% an automatic hit for most accuracy levels of the soldiers? The issue with the Equal Term mod is that it removes the vanilla weapons, which is a complete no-no. I'm completely open to suggestions about how to balance the weapons, but the vanilla weapons need to stay as they are.

Maybe sniper rifle should have 60 to 80 damage and have a high aim using aimed but poor aim on snap and of course no auto. I want sniper rifle to mostly hit from really far away. Should hit from far away well with high damage but maybe high TU cost like 70 damage 150% aimed 70% TU. And yes I agree that it should not remove or change vanilla weapons. Although the mod's  assault rifle can auto shoot 5 times instead of 3 which would totally make sense with smaller teams.  If xcom rifle could shoot 5 times would make 2 people able to deal the damage of 4 kinda so would keep the game evenly balanced.



Btw, have you seen the full UFOPedia in the debug mode?

I seen it in debug mode. And I gotta say I love what you did there. Almost everything has ufopedia. And council report is must have. YES. I just think is disorganized and miscellaneous could be maybe Other Research at least. And MJ12 ships and stats should be listed in ufopedia.

Knowing this, do you still prefer for them to have normal tech conventional weapons?

Is nicer if they look like men in black suits  for first few months then they go to some xcom like early armor then  they get crazy armors and tech later. I kinda prefer them to be equal tech just different weapons.  But later on I want them to be high tech almost alien looking and kinda mixing with alien genetics and even use plasma. The armored crazy looking guy is for much later.  Early game is just a bunch of main in suits.

EDIT: I love the idea of mysterious agents in suits kinda reminds me of thinmen a bit. That's why I like men in black so mysteriously sounding. Shadow organization. And men in suits could still appear later but they could be really weak with crazy strong weapons like insane plasma or omega etc.  Later on you autopsy some advanced MI12 and realize they been mixing with alien genetics etc so they get psi powers or tougher bodies more agile etc so they may have alien stats at that point.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 09, 2015, 08:47:26 am
I'm going to do a major overhaul of the Geoscape textures and terrains shortly. Here's the provisional list:

0: Taiga Forest / Original Jungle
1: Steppe Mountain / Jungle Temple             
2: Improved Farm / Native
3: Savanna Forest / Steppe Desert   
4: Grassland Desert / Grassland Forest
5: Tundra Mountain / Original Mountain
6: Mountain Forest / Mountain Jungle       
7: Desert Mountain / Original Desert
8: Savanna Desert/ Temple Desert
9: Polar Desert/ Polar Mountain
10: Original Forest / Original Jungle
11: Tundra Desert / Taiga Mountain
12: Original Polar

All the original terrains are still present, while several new ones will be introduced. And later, each texture will simply have a number of different terrains assigned, when this feature is introduced.

I realized I may have looked like a jerk seems I don't like anything about it. But I was only commenting on things that I think can be fixed. I think is a great mod overall it definitely combines a lot of neat things. Like having 5 factions with their own unique weapons and research trees (like omega stuff). The extra cities and terrains . And that you need to capture aliens to get research.

No worries, there can be several reasons behind the changes I've made and I'm aware that I may need to explain my reasoning in detail. But I'm also very much interested in all kinds of feedback. :)

Quote
For armour I recommend two types to start. 

First a light kevlar vest  small reduction to firing aim and throwing accuracy and  gives a bit more  front and back protection than overalls but sides or underneath same as overalls.

Second a full body kevlar armor type that gives more protection at sides and front but relatively less strong (although still more than overalls or vest) behind and also reduces TU, firing aim, stamina, and throwing accuracy.

Then later maybe some variations on personal armor would be nice .

I'll see which armor mods look the best.

Quote
Maybe sniper rifle should have 60 - 80 damage .  And yes I agree that it should not remove all the other weapons from the game. Although the mod's  assault rifle can auto shoot 5 times instead of 3 which would totally make sense with smaller teams.  If xcom rifle could shoot 5 times would make 2 people able to deal the damage of 4 kinda so would keep the game evenly balanced.

60? I've already heard before that the Sniper Rifle was overbalanced, so now I'm kinda of confused. 

Quote
I seen it in debug mode. And I gotta say I love what you did there. Almost everything has ufopedia. And council report is must have. YES. I just think is disorganized and miscellaneous could be maybe Other Research at least. And MJ12 ships and stats should be listed in ufopedia.

Well, if can show me a detailed sketch of how everything should be organized, then we can try your format to see how it works out.

Quote
Is nicer if they look like men in black suits  for first few months then they go to some xcom like early armor then  they get crazy armors and tech later. I kinda prefer them to be equal tech just different weapons.  But later on I want them to be high tech almost alien looking and kinda mixing with alien genetics and even use plasma. The armored crazy looking guy is for much later.  Early game is just a bunch of main in suits.

OK, the reason why I didn't want them to be MiB like is that it will be either integrated or recommended to use with this mod. But I had these nice military looking human units, weapons and a new terrain I'm working at, so I decided to add one of the main secret groups of UFO folklore. Later, their Agents have Personal Armor equivalent and their Stormtroopers have Power Suit equivalents. But, unlike the MiBs, MJ12 prefers direct action right from the beginning. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: volutar on February 09, 2015, 10:26:13 am
60? I've already heard before that the Sniper Rifle was overbalanced, so now I'm kinda of confused. 
Sorry for interfering. But sniper rifles are generally making imbalance in wide range of games. They are eleminating random statistics from the gameplay formula. It's justified for the FPS or multiplayer game, when they are generally even, but with single player squad games, when most of units are just making their way through the bushes of constant misses, that really looks overbalanced (only with stat comparable to ordinary rifle it could be ok).
60 damage with 110% of chances (no misses)... Man, it's ridiculously overbalanced.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 09, 2015, 11:10:25 am
Sorry for interfering. But sniper rifles are generally making imbalance in wide range of games. They are eleminating random statistics from the gameplay formula. It's justified for the FPS or multiplayer game, when they are generally even, but with single player squad games, when most of units are just making their way through the bushes of constant misses, that really looks overbalanced (only with stat comparable to ordinary rifle it could be ok).
60 damage with 110% of chances (no misses)... Man, it's ridiculously overbalanced.
}

Sounds like is overbalanced but think about it. Sniper rifle can only shoot one aimed shot per turn as it takes almost all TU. Snap shot is pointless on sniper rifle as is often low aim and still high TU. Your soldier cannot move much and cannot throw grenades or  use medkits because they would be really far out of combat. A weak soldier with decent accuracy you can turn into a sniper stay out of combat provide support for soldiers.  The range of fire must be clear open ground. Overbalanced? Debatable. A smg can shoot 3 times in 4 bursts that is 12 times in total. That is 12 times more opportunity/damage to kill enemies. A rifle auto shoot can deal 30 damage times 3 burst shots times 2 shots per turn (average) that's a lot of damage if it all hits and thats 6 chances at least one shot hits. Sniper rifle only once. IT needs to be high damage .


don't throw your eggs in one basket cause if the basket breaks all eggs will break too. well. thats sniper rifle. you're throwing away all your TU for one high damage shot. what's the point of doing that if it deals 40 damage and only shoots once. I would use rifles on all my soldiers at least I can shoot a bunch of times even from far out of range one shot will surely hit someone for 30 rather than 40 (not much difference). Now if it was 80 or so then i can see the advantage as you can one shot most  medium/weak enemies. but otherwise i'd stick with rifles as sniper is not worth the aim/tu /damage trade.

that's exactly my logic in choosing a weapon in game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on February 09, 2015, 11:50:33 am
If you're looking to see those new terrains I still need to work more on them before adding to the expansion. And at this stage nearly all Geoscape textures are already assigned to existing terrains so I can't add anything new to the UFO missions without having to remove something else. The good news is that when the nightlies can support multiple terrains per texture then there will be a lot of new terrains to play since there it will be possible to make a lot of variations.

The Commendations mod should conflict with the UFOPedia.

Will you ad this new terrains to your terrainpack later? I so far played with it and i really enjoyed it. More terrain please! :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 09, 2015, 03:24:23 pm
overbalanced? Debatable. A smg can shoot 3 times in 4 bursts that is 12 times in total. That is 12 times more opportunity/damage to kill enemies. A rifle auto shoot can deal 30 damage times 3 burst shots times 2 shots per turn (average) that's a lot of damage if it all hits and thats 6 chances at least one shot hits. Sniper rifle only once. IT needs to be high damage.

I haven't done the math but the odds both for aim and damage between a Rifle firing 6 times at 35 aim, 30 power, versus a Sniper Rifle that fires once at 110 aim and 60 power seem to favor the Sniper Rifle.

But the real issue to me was described by Volutar: "They are eleminating random statistics from the gameplay formula". With this kind of Sniper Rifle you can bring a couple of soldiers with Sniper Rifles and you get almost automatic 1 shot kills (unless you get really unlucky with the damage roll) against Sectoids/Floaters.

And on the other hand, there's the opposite issue: how many shots should auto contain? LMGs, SMGs and Machine Pistols usually have between 4-6 shots and I'm finding them even more useful than Sniper Rifles. LMGs can fire 18 shots at 18% aim, 30 power. Rifles can only fire 6, at 36 aim and 30 power, plus 1 snap shot, which would look balanced, but the more chances for a roll with an LMG, the better your odds get. Wouldn't it be better to standardize all auto fire at 3 shots and play with the aim/damage/weight/etc stats instead?

To me several of the weapons included should be rebalanced but you need to have an overall view, otherwise by reducing/increase a weapon's stats you can be turning another into a lemon.

Will you ad this new terrains to your terrainpack later? I so far played with it and i really enjoyed it. More terrain please! :)

Yes :)

I've already edited the globe with a new texture since vanilla has one unused slot. Now I just need to finish 7 new terrains to add to those I already posted pics. And I'm going to remove the Alien Remix and Missions Pack from the download since they have been integrated on this mod.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZGIKXKIB020920150824.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 09, 2015, 04:19:57 pm
Nice texture on the globe.


Hmm. There needs to be an inverse power accuracy for sniper to make them unable to be used close up  and also lose accuracy if range too high as well giving them a sweet spot distance where damage/aim is maxed out.  That would bring the sure kill no randomness out from snipers and could still have high accuracy and high damage and still be able to miss a few too close or too far shots.

I think is more fun having a varied number of shots per weapon. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ridаn on February 09, 2015, 06:22:34 pm
I think Sniper Rifle is okay. May be increase damage to 40 from 35 is warranted, but then it will occasionally destroy walls (at 35 damage it does a maximum of (35 * 0.75 =)26.25 damage to walls, which have a "hardness" of 25), which would be weird.
There is around 45-60% chance to one shot basic Sectoid or Floater (30 and 35-45 hp with couple of armour points depending on facing) with standard damage formula, which seems like a sweet spot.
And Snapshot TU/Acc ratio allows for long range reaction fire if properly set up.
It is also quite lightweight (11loaded, same as basic rifle) and that, coupled with good accuracy, makes it a great weapon for rookie training at the start.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 10, 2015, 03:21:50 am
I think Sniper Rifle is okay. May be increase damage to 40 from 35 is warranted, but then it will occasionally destroy walls (at 35 damage it does a maximum of (35 * 0.75 =)26.25 damage to walls, which have a "hardness" of 25), which would be weird.
There is around 45-60% chance to one shot basic Sectoid or Floater (30 and 35-45 hp with couple of armour points depending on facing) with standard damage formula, which seems like a sweet spot.
And Snapshot TU/Acc ratio allows for long range reaction fire if properly set up.
It is also quite lightweight (11loaded, same as basic rifle) and that, coupled with good accuracy, makes it a great weapon for rookie training at the start.


I did some testing of my own with equal terms and  enabled that option to have aim decrease over a certain range. With a soldier of 75 accuracy my 150% acc aimed sniper rifle shot was 115% all over the map. At 80 damage that's cheating.

So I must apologize to everyone as you were all right. The suggestions above seem fair.

However.  I think think there needs to be a bit more balancing done.

First the standard rifle in the game is supposed to be a sniper rifle which is why it has such a high aimed stats 110.  By comparison laser and plasma rifles have 100% aimed but higher damage and higher auto acc.

Rifle
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 35%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 60%)
Aimed: 80% (Accuracy 110%) <<as you can see this is way higher than it should be as it's a sniper rifle

So you added a second rifle that is also sniper with no auto. Maybe regular game rifle needs to be changed either into an assault or into a sniper rifle as right now it kinda does both.

Here is sniper rifle vs regular game rifle as assault:

Sniper Rifle
Snap: 18% (Accuracy 48%) <or ??? terrible snap so is not so useful close range is worse than pistol
aimed 95% (125%) <would be highest in the game just above heavy plasma and rocket launcher both 115%
damage 40
no auto
This would make the sniper rifle perfect for long range but the 125% max aimed shot acc would bring it under 100% even for the highest ranked soldiers adding that randomness back. Your 75 aim soldier would probably have 80%? or so chance of hitting all over the map using aimed . The low snap high aimed difference forces you to kinda set up camp and shoot once per turn instead of going around with 40 damage sniper rifle shooting multiple times using snap.

Rifle  (as assault)
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 35%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 60%) 
Aimed: 60% (Accuracy 90%) <simply reduce aimed for regular rifle
damage 30
Regular game rifle as i said as supposed to be a sniper. Simply downgrade the aimed acc so players would use aimed less and auto more often. 3 bullets at 35% accuracy is almost 105% chance it would hit vs 90% aimed chance.  Alternatively you can reduce auto a bit to 32% and damage a bit to 28 and have 4 bullets  per auto. That's more of an assault and you would go auto a lot with regular rifle.

Let me know what you think!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XCOMFan419 on February 10, 2015, 04:07:35 am
I have some ideas. Maybe a grass version of the desert? Like no trees or anything. (If it's possible) It can go in flatlands places like Central Canada and stuff. Also, great work on the terrains! I love them all. They look fantastic and will surely change up the old green green and more green that burns my eyes now :P

Also with the side doors: It's just my personal opinion. I think it will also offer more tactical options for XCOM players. If it's a 10 person Skyranger, then I'd rather take the 10 people. Otherwise my entire strategy is thrown off. So because I'd rather not lose my first 3 rookies because of alien reaction fire, having some doors at the side will give us an opportunity to scout/kill the aliens at our flanks.

Heavier tanks is also an option, followed by "Improved Tanks" which use the same sprites, but can now mount a laser cannon/whatever crazy things you can come up with that aren't rockets, cannons, etc. Alloy and then Hovertanks. (Of course this is just opinion) Also, feel free to use some of the tanks in Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh my! because while I haven't abandoned the project, it's going to be a while until I can pick it back up. School and stuff.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 10, 2015, 03:31:40 pm
However.  I think think there needs to be a bit more balancing done.

First the standard rifle in the game is supposed to be a sniper rifle which is why it has such a high aimed stats 110.  By comparison laser and plasma rifles have 100% aimed but higher damage and higher auto acc.

Rifle
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 35%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 60%)
Aimed: 80% (Accuracy 110%) <<as you can see this is way higher than it should be as it's a sniper rifle

So you added a second rifle that is also sniper with no auto. Maybe regular game rifle needs to be changed either into an assault or into a sniper rifle as right now it kinda does both.

Here is sniper rifle vs regular game rifle as assault:

Sniper Rifle
Snap: 18% (Accuracy 48%) <or ??? terrible snap so is not so useful close range is worse than pistol
aimed 95% (125%) <would be highest in the game just above heavy plasma and rocket launcher both 115%
damage 40
no auto
This would make the sniper rifle perfect for long range but the 125% max aimed shot acc would bring it under 100% even for the highest ranked soldiers adding that randomness back. Your 75 aim soldier would probably have 80%? or so chance of hitting all over the map using aimed . The low snap high aimed difference forces you to kinda set up camp and shoot once per turn instead of going around with 40 damage sniper rifle shooting multiple times using snap.

Rifle  (as assault)
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 35%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 60%) 
Aimed: 60% (Accuracy 90%) <simply reduce aimed for regular rifle
damage 30
Regular game rifle as i said as supposed to be a sniper. Simply downgrade the aimed acc so players would use aimed less and auto more often. 3 bullets at 35% accuracy is almost 105% chance it would hit vs 90% aimed chance.  Alternatively you can reduce auto a bit to 32% and damage a bit to 28 and have 4 bullets  per auto. That's more of an assault and you would go auto a lot with regular rifle.

Let me know what you think!

This sounds sensitive and well thought, although it does change one of vanilla weapon's stats (heresy! ;))

However, my question is how to balance everything on the conventional weapons since there are 6 types:
* Pistol (no auto)
* Machine Pistol (auto)
* Rifle/SMG (auto)
* Sniper Rifle (no auto)
* Shotgun (special shell)
* LMG (auto)

I have some ideas. Maybe a grass version of the desert? Like no trees or anything. (If it's possible) It can go in flatlands places like Central Canada and stuff. Also, great work on the terrains! I love them all. They look fantastic and will surely change up the old green green and more green that burns my eyes now :P

Like this?

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/XJNJXTKI021020150816.png)

At this point I'm basically cloning terrains by changing the sprites but reusing the maps and creating 3 different versions of each new terrain by using the Desert, Mountain and Forest maps, so each version can be more or less flat. Later, when the new terrain/texture system gets implemented then it will be possible to have 3-4 possible terrains for each texture, chosen randomly.

I'm also toying around with creating some swamps using the polar maps:

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/NPSOFFAP021020150825.png)

Quote
Also with the side doors: It's just my personal opinion. I think it will also offer more tactical options for XCOM players. If it's a 10 person Skyranger, then I'd rather take the 10 people. Otherwise my entire strategy is thrown off. So because I'd rather not lose my first 3 rookies because of alien reaction fire, having some doors at the side will give us an opportunity to scout/kill the aliens at our flanks.


Well the jury is still out on the 10 unit Skyranger, and the idea of side doors has become recorded here in case it is needed in the future.
 
Quote
Heavier tanks is also an option, followed by "Improved Tanks" which use the same sprites, but can now mount a laser cannon/whatever crazy things you can come up with that aren't rockets, cannons, etc. Alloy and then Hovertanks. (Of course this is just opinion) Also, feel free to use some of the tanks in Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh my! because while I haven't abandoned the project, it's going to be a while until I can pick it back up. School and stuff.

I'm actually already using the Minigun and Plasma Minigun HWPs of your Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh my! mod as MJ12 terror units. :)
There's great stuff there in your mod, although I'm only adding stuff when there's an actual game need.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on February 10, 2015, 03:43:04 pm
Hobbes your Ideas about Terrains are awesome!
I can't wait until i can play in steppe desert or huging my guys through some swamps, forward to the enemy.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 11, 2015, 02:27:20 am
Looks good man!

In regards to weapons I am also working on a mod and I wanna preserve original weapons and not change much but simply add to it unique things. Is hard.

SMG, Machine Pistol, Sniper Rifle, LMG ... tricky. You must find a way to make them all uniquely useful . Perhaps by focusing on either aimed snapped or auto. For example machine pistol could be a pistol with auto and lower snap and aimed than pistol. SMG is a rifle with lower auto snap and aimed but 5 bullets and pistol damage. LMG is a rifle with more damage and auto ut lower auto snap  and aimed or has same stats as rifle but more damage and no auto. etc Focusing on specific roles I guess. :D The idea is smaller weapons have low damage/accuracy but also low TU/weight , medium weapons have higher damage and accuracy but more TU /weight while heavy weapons are low accuracy same TU but high damage/weight. Automatic weapons get auto while heavier weapons generally don't have auto.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mr. Quiet on February 11, 2015, 02:55:02 am
Sorry Hobbes, I just got here and I only read a bit of the op and saw the first few photos on the first page to keep things spoil-free, so you don't have to respond to me. I'm quite excited to see these kinds of overhaul mods in my X-COM to try something new with core mechanics untouched.

Is the HWP included with 10 ops? Without the tank can you add 4 more operatives? Would you have to shrink down the Skyranger for less space and keep it logical? I don't mind what you go with. Like I said, I love new ideas like this, but I'm no tester, I prefer the balanced, finished release, without dealing with beta issues.
I only want to suggest, if you want to keep the size of the Skyranger and find a logical reason to have less space to your operatives, turn the entrance within the Skyranger into a Tank storage bay, but you'll have to limit the Skyranger to 1 tank only for that area to only hold one tank, but not for operatives to stay in. Would the next trans upgrade be a similar or exact design of the Skyranger with more customization?

Something to add from the Xenonauts main dev who brought something up that I never thought about until that day I read it. The original X-COM formula was for filling your trans with weak operatives to fight a small number of commando-like genetically modified aliens, so that's the balance. You're gonna lose a bunch of men and women, but you'll still win if you play right. I'm not sure if it was your mod, maybe it was Luke's Terror-Site mod. He added twice as many aliens for his huge maps in the early game, very intense fighting, I barely made it with 1-3 operatives and no ammo left every time...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Gifty on February 11, 2015, 07:53:29 am
I support this project 100%, I always thought an expansion would be a great mod project. I would say, though, that a glut of early-game human weapons isn't necessarily a good thing; I notice that mods adding a ton of new items tend to bog down the buy/sell menu, and ballistic weapons tend to all blend together. I think making additions slow and steady would be the way to go, rather than going for quantity (especially regarding some of the new art assets, some of them clash a bit with the stock graphics). Great work so far, though, consider me ready and willing to help in any way possible.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure someone made a tab-based sorting system for the buy/sell menu a while back, I don't know what happened to it or how well it worked, but that might be worth looking into with all the new items!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Duke_Falcon on February 11, 2015, 10:40:56 am
Good mod so far. Only have the problem of the vanilla that many weak aliens come in hordes what result dozens of salvage - see attachment!

+ Like the many new cities. Not like the many new terror possibilites these provide for the Chryssalids...
+ Research is strange at first but easily solve to hire more scientists - what is pretty easy thanks for the many salvage from Sectoid\Floater hordes swarming Earth...
+ Felt the new UFOpaedia a bit strange. Not if the rearrangement is a big deal just got to adapted by the original. After some time it will be as natural IMO. Like the government reports what gives supply for the background story...

- Latest nightly... Hate it as it mess all the other mods sometimes and cause crashes when I not expect it...
- Smaller Skyranger. I always use only 10 soldiers per mission but this way I can not take dogs with me. Maybe 12 places instead of 10?
- HWPs. Makes game way to easy. Somehow aliens usually tend to ignore them and attack the soldiers instead what make the tanks grind them unpunished. Of course this is not the mod's fault! So just ignore this point...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 11, 2015, 06:52:09 pm
Is the HWP included with 10 ops? Without the tank can you add 4 more operatives? Would you have to shrink down the Skyranger for less space and keep it logical? I don't mind what you go with. Like I said, I love new ideas like this, but I'm no tester, I prefer the balanced, finished release, without dealing with beta issues.
I only want to suggest, if you want to keep the size of the Skyranger and find a logical reason to have less space to your operatives, turn the entrance within the Skyranger into a Tank storage bay, but you'll have to limit the Skyranger to 1 tank only for that area to only hold one tank, but not for operatives to stay in. Would the next trans upgrade be a similar or exact design of the Skyranger with more customization?

Something to add from the Xenonauts main dev who brought something up that I never thought about until that day I read it. The original X-COM formula was for filling your trans with weak operatives to fight a small number of commando-like genetically modified aliens, so that's the balance. You're gonna lose a bunch of men and women, but you'll still win if you play right. I'm not sure if it was your mod, maybe it was Luke's Terror-Site mod. He added twice as many aliens for his huge maps in the early game, very intense fighting, I barely made it with 1-3 operatives and no ammo left every time...

The HWP is included in the 10 units. The capacity of the Skyranger is currently being under consideration. One idea is a possible upgrade to 14 units that you can recover in a specific mission in the first month. I'm still designing this mission though so it may take a while. The final decision won't be taken until there's enough experience/feedback regarding the 10 units. The additional aliens must be on Luke's maps.

I support this project 100%, I always thought an expansion would be a great mod project. I would say, though, that a glut of early-game human weapons isn't necessarily a good thing; I notice that mods adding a ton of new items tend to bog down the buy/sell menu, and ballistic weapons tend to all blend together. I think making additions slow and steady would be the way to go, rather than going for quantity (especially regarding some of the new art assets, some of them clash a bit with the stock graphics). Great work so far, though, consider me ready and willing to help in any way possible.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure someone made a tab-based sorting system for the buy/sell menu a while back, I don't know what happened to it or how well it worked, but that might be worth looking into with all the new items!

The second issue to be solved with this mod are the personal weapons. I had two major criteria when adding them: visual, for the graphics to mix well together, and utility/space, meaning that a ton of weapons doesn't increase variety if they are simply clones. I also decided to limit the usage of the weapons that are used by the human factions by not allowing them to be bought or manufactured and to keep the menus without too much clutter.

I also wanted to do this regarding the weapons: perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away (Antoine de St. Exupery). However, I left this part for the playtesting phase since this is would take time and I wanted to finish the functional version.

So, if you want to give a hand then I'd appreciate if someone could look at the weapon sets and decide what should be removed and how the new weapons should be balanced (keeping the stats of the vanilla weapons). I've already have a few ideas about those issues and we seem to share the same thinking :)

Good mod so far. Only have the problem of the vanilla that many weak aliens come in hordes what result dozens of salvage - see attachment!

+ Like the many new cities. Not like the many new terror possibilites these provide for the Chryssalids...
+ Research is strange at first but easily solve to hire more scientists - what is pretty easy thanks for the many salvage from Sectoid\Floater hordes swarming Earth...
+ Felt the new UFOpaedia a bit strange. Not if the rearrangement is a big deal just got to adapted by the original. After some time it will be as natural IMO. Like the government reports what gives supply for the background story...

- Latest nightly... Hate it as it mess all the other mods sometimes and cause crashes when I not expect it...
- Smaller Skyranger. I always use only 10 soldiers per mission but this way I can not take dogs with me. Maybe 12 places instead of 10?
- HWPs. Makes game way to easy. Somehow aliens usually tend to ignore them and attack the soldiers instead what make the tanks grind them unpunished. Of course this is not the mod's fault! So just ignore this point...

Thanks for the report. I've got a few questions (spoilers included):
* What difficulty level are you playing? Are you using any other mods with it?
* How and when did you develop laser weapons? Plasma weapons? Advanced materials?
* Have you seen the Mothership/Overseer UFO? Or the Overlord aliens? The Alien Elite crews on UFOs?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 11, 2015, 07:17:02 pm
And now for some news regarding development:
1) The new terrains are almost done. In additional to the Original Five biomes (Desert, Forest, Mountain, Jungle and Polar) there will be 5 new biomes (Grassland, Savanna, Steppe, Taiga and Tundra). These 10 biomes then have 3-4 possible versions of each: flat, mixed, hills, temple and swamp. It won't be possible to play all of them until the texture restrictions are removed but several new ones will be introduced meanwhile. Farm is still included but it will be the improved version that contains new maps.
2) I'm going to create and attach a spreadsheet listing the personal weapons stats, since we're in the process of weapons balancing, to make it easier to have an overview.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 12, 2015, 03:05:14 pm
Version 0.2 of UFO Redux has been uploaded and can be downloaded here (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)

This version reuses an unused Geoscape texture slot and adds a total of 18 new terrains for UFO missions. Not all terrains are yet playable due to a lack of textures (currently each texture can only be assigned 2 terrains, one for each hemisphere). These terrains will eventually find their way to the Terrain Pack, and there are still 7 additional terrains I want to design and include, essentially more swamp versions using the Polar maps. 

List of new terrains:
Forest (Polar)
Grassland (Desert)
Grassland (Forest)
Grassland (Forest Mountain)*
Jungle (Mountain)
Jungle (Polar)
Polar (Desert)
Savanna (Forest)
Savanna (Desert)
Savanna (Forest Mountain)*
Steppe (Desert)
Steppe (Forest)*
Steppe (Forest Mountain)
Taiga (Desert)*
Taiga (Forest)
Taiga (Forest Mountain)
Tundra (Desert)
Tundra (Mountain)
Tundra (Desert Mountain)
* = current unplayable (lack of Geoscape textures)

The current list of textures/terrains is:
0   Taiga Forest/Jungle Polar
1   Steppe Forest Mountain/Jungle Temple     
2   Improved Farm/Native
3   Savanna Forest/Steppe Desert   
4   Grassland Desert/Grassland Forest
5   Tundra Mountain/Tundra Desert Mountain
6   Forest Mountain/Jungle Original
7   Desert Mountain/Desert Original
8   Savanna Desert/Desert Temple
9   Polar Desert/Polar Mountain
10   Forest Polar/Jungle Mountain
11   Tundra Desert/Taiga Forest Mountain
12   Polar Original/Polar Original


And here are some images of Jungle Polar and Tundra Desert:
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/SYNZHQZS021220150751.png)
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/WOJXVYTE020820150646.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 12, 2015, 03:20:10 pm
looking  good!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mr. Quiet on February 13, 2015, 01:08:34 am
Good to have you here Hobbes. I love all the work you've done with OXC.

Let me know if adding the mods below will cause conflicts:

https://www.openxcom.com/mod/firestorm-restyle
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/shotgun

I gotta have these 2 mods. The new firestorm model is the best thing I've ever seen around here. Then you have Warboy's/Ryseki's shotguns! Breacher-Class for breaching burning buildings and UFO's. I only wish we had grappling hooks to scale buildings... Why not guys? I try to equip them as close as the Breachers in Project Reality: BF2. My only fps game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: NebulaM78 on February 13, 2015, 05:42:57 am
When I try to start a landed UFO mission in the northern part of Asia I get an error saying SAVANNA.MCD is not found.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2015, 06:15:02 am
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/firestorm-restyle
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/shotgun

There are 3 shotguns included in Redux but none of the advanced ones, but in theory those mods shouldn't conflict.

When I try to start a landed UFO mission in the northern part of Asia I get an error saying SAVANNA.MCD is not found.

Here's an attached fix below
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: NebulaM78 on February 13, 2015, 06:56:36 am
Here's an attached fix below

Fast, as always. Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Duke_Falcon on February 13, 2015, 09:47:47 am
Quote
Thanks for the report. I've got a few questions (spoilers included):
* What difficulty level are you playing? Are you using any other mods with it?
* How and when did you develop laser weapons? Plasma weapons? Advanced materials?

- Third easiest difficulty as I reluctant to play harder with new mods I not played previously.
- Use Aliens pick up weapons mod but usually they still not pick those up.
- I not researched lasers so far since those usually the best weapons if they not use ammo. In this mod those use?
- I experienced you tweaked the tech tree a bit as some items become available with other pre-reqs what I remembered. Not examined closely what unlocked what and I mostly research alien life forms dead or alive.
- I depart missions where I find Mutons, Ethereals - well, put it simple - I left if enemies are not Sectoids, Floaters and Snakemen. But since these raid in masses it cause little or no score loss. In air combat I never attack ships what greater than "Medium" but I dare to raid them if bigger ships landing.
- Not seen them and if they are exported from XenoOps I not want it untill my squad is well armoured to such a job.

About gameplay... I experienced that most medium ships not firing back to the Interceptor so they could be shot down by stingrays. Maybe it's vanilla's heritage? Also sometimes very large ships landing in cities - Infiltration I suspect - but at the end of the month a different country left the X-com project. I wonder if aliens infiltrate London - if they on such missions - why France or Germany left the project?
Also why I shot sometimes Skyrangers down? There is a new faction in the game like MiB? Is it worth to plunder them or they have the same tech like Xcom?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2015, 05:10:06 pm
- I not researched lasers so far since those usually the best weapons if they not use ammo. In this mod those use?

Yes, they use clips in this mod, but if you research E-115 you can research an improved version that does not use clips. I think I figured out why you think it's easy, since there was a bug that gave early unlock of plasma weapons (fixed on the latest version)

Quote
- I depart missions where I find Mutons, Ethereals - well, put it simple - I left if enemies are not Sectoids, Floaters and Snakemen. But since these raid in masses it cause little or no score loss. In air combat I never attack ships what greater than "Medium" but I dare to raid them if bigger ships landing.

There is an issue that I've informed yesterday related to the appearance of alien races that I was not aware and that seems to be the cause of this. I haven't fixed it yet since it requires a few changes and I also want to experience it myself first.

Quote
- Not seen them and if they are exported from XenoOps I not want it untill my squad is well armoured to such a job.

They are a slightly different version from XenoOps but still as deadly :)

Quote
About gameplay... I experienced that most medium ships not firing back to the Interceptor so they could be shot down by stingrays. Maybe it's vanilla's heritage? Also sometimes very large ships landing in cities - Infiltration I suspect - but at the end of the month a different country left the X-com project. I wonder if aliens infiltrate London - if they on such missions - why France or Germany left the project?
Also why I shot sometimes Skyrangers down? There is a new faction in the game like MiB? Is it worth to plunder them or they have the same tech like Xcom?

The UFOs landing on different cities is the game's mechanic: it chooses cities from the region, instead of only the country the aliens are infiltrating. Since I added so many cities it's natural that UFOs land on Athens when they are trying to infiltrate Germany ;)

The medium scouts that do not fire back are indeed Skyrangers (use the button that gives an image of the UFO to check), and they are from a MiB like faction. They have better tech than XCom at the early-mid game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2015, 06:14:38 pm
Just tossing an idea to get impressions. *spoilers*

I'm currently thinking of reworking the final mission of the MiB like human faction. Currently, if the game selects MJ12 Operations as the alien mission to perform it will launch Transport Planes and each has a specific battleground. MJ12 Operations is also the very first mission the game performs (this is why you get all the mercenaries on the first month). On the 4th and last UFO, which currently takes place on a HWP Factory, there is an Scientist present that can automatically give Laser Weapons or other advanced tech if captured and interrogated.

My idea at the moment is to expand the 4th UFO mission, otherwise it will get repetitive once players figure out the appearance of the scientist (his face looks different from all other mercenaries) and where it usually hangs out on the HWP factory. Thus I am designing a 100x100 map (4 times the size of a regular 50x50 map) to represent a mercenary base. But unlike regular missions, the objective is not to kill all the enemies, since it would very difficult and time consuming, but to raid and steal advanced tech and then get back to your Skyranger.

The map itself will be a military base and will have a predetermined layout. And included on the map, there will be 3 key positions: the heliport, where an enemy scientist will be located and 2 other special buildings, that will contain inside an item at a specific location, that if recovered and researched will unlock advanced tech. The locations of the Skyranger, heliport and 2 special buildings will be random and spread around the 100x100 map, so once you land you'll have to scout to figure out where your objectives are located. And since after turn 20 all the enemy units become aware of your units location, you'll be on a timer to find and recover something before all the mercenaries begin converging on your location.

As for the possible rewards, my idea is that capturing and interrogating the scientist would unlock an upgraded Skyranger (with the vanilla ability of 14 troops). The techs available on the special buildings would be 4: improved conventional weapons, improved Interceptor, improved HWPs and gaining Laser Weapons tech (it currently costs 9000 days to finish research). Notice that only 2 special buildings will be generated, so you can only recover 2 of those 4 techs (but the Improved Skyranger will always be available).

This mission, which will always appear on the first month and be possible afterwards, is something quite different from the vanilla ones due to its size and complexity. My questions are if it sounds like a good idea and how would you improve it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on February 13, 2015, 06:29:13 pm
Sounds like an impressive mission!!

There definitely need to be clues to the player about the mission and some possible rewards.  ( so they don't just kill/destroy everthing )

Also, the research item needs to be quite distinctive on the map, so that the player can't miss it.  Maybe a cool looking laptop, that pulses, with a "diskette" item for the hand ob, big ob. 

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2015, 07:03:34 pm
Sounds like an impressive mission!!

There definitely need to be clues to the player about the mission and some possible rewards.  ( so they don't just kill/destroy everthing )

Also, the research item needs to be quite distinctive on the map, so that the player can't miss it.  Maybe a cool looking laptop, that pulses, with a "diskette" item for the hand ob, big ob. 

Cheers, Ivan :D

From what I've been told, TFTD will allow to customize the mission briefing so in the future there's an explanation, until there I will post a readme file explaining the basics. I had already thought of including an arrow pointing towards the items, and the diskette idea is great for the object.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 13, 2015, 07:18:17 pm
Hobbes

You can now add your own custom intro to the game you should see if you can do that. I was reading TFTD intro and UFO intro and custom intro are now supported.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 13, 2015, 07:21:39 pm
I wonder. Can you make like a 10 part mission and is a win or lose and have enough ammo and weapons and items distributed between all enemies that you can keep going on and on and on until you win. You'd first go topside then undeground a bunch of levels then you would chase this last bad guy without any weapons likea  civilian which is the bad dude then win the game . LULZ. Whole game would be battlescape.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 13, 2015, 09:06:26 pm
I wonder. Can you make like a 10 part mission and is a win or lose and have enough ammo and weapons and items distributed between all enemies that you can keep going on and on and on until you win. You'd first go topside then undeground a bunch of levels then you would chase this last bad guy without any weapons likea  civilian which is the bad dude then win the game . LULZ. Whole game would be battlescape.

I've just updated to the latest nightly and I'll start looking into how to change a number of things regarding missions.

Your idea seems possible :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on February 13, 2015, 09:23:54 pm
I've just updated to the latest nightly and I'll start looking into how to change a number of things regarding missions.

Your idea seems possible :)

Would also be interesting to have 4 or 5 stage Cydonia mission ^^
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Gifty on February 16, 2015, 06:33:43 am
So, if you want to give a hand then I'd appreciate if someone could look at the weapon sets and decide what should be removed and how the new weapons should be balanced (keeping the stats of the vanilla weapons). I've already have a few ideas about those issues and we seem to share the same thinking :)
Ok, I haven't had a ton of time to test out all the new weapons, but so far I think the machine pistol/SMG overlap a little too much and one of them should probably go (my vote is keep the SMG, but maybe lower the accuracy/TU costs so it's squarely between the pistol and the rifle). The sniper/LMG also seem to fill a similar support role, but I should probably play more before passing judgement.

As an aside, I cleaned up/reshaded the flamethrower to fit in better with the X-Com art style...
(https://i.imgur.com/vdpgBpL.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/INC3CsW.gif)

...And I also made a totally new AK that looks a lot cleaner. You don't have to use these, but they're here if you want them. :)
(https://i.imgur.com/JGgbZxp.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/dgZBtor.gif)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 16, 2015, 02:20:57 pm
Looks very exciting and I may want to use this in my next game but I wondering on two points. Firstly my current game uses XOP's as one of the mods I use and I've noticed that u seem to have added the commander rank to Harvesters & Abductors:
      - alienRank: 0
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 1
        dQty: 1
What was the reason behind this or is this part of the play testing? U've stated the following "Fixing idiosyncrasies and exploits of the original game, such as alien commanders being present in Battleships (despite the UFOpedia stating that they are only found in bases)" so why have them in the above mentioned ufo's.

Secondly for a challenge I now play difficulty level 6 but the no of aliens don't increase beyond superhuman, only their stats. Is it a case of simply increasing the deployment no's in the .rul file or is it more complicated than that? Is there a limit to the no of aliens u can have in a mission particulary in regards to spawn points? I reference the following which may be off the point somewhat so apologies. https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Spawn_Points
 Really looking forward to this mod particularly the mj12 faction and the introduction of the scienctist alien rank.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2015, 04:25:11 pm
Ok, I haven't had a ton of time to test out all the new weapons, but so far I think the machine pistol/SMG overlap a little too much and one of them should probably go (my vote is keep the SMG, but maybe lower the accuracy/TU costs so it's squarely between the pistol and the rifle). The sniper/LMG also seem to fill a similar support role, but I should probably play more before passing judgement.

As an aside, I cleaned up/reshaded the flamethrower to fit in better with the X-Com art style...
(https://i.imgur.com/vdpgBpL.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/INC3CsW.gif)

...And I also made a totally new AK that looks a lot cleaner. You don't have to use these, but they're here if you want them. :)
(https://i.imgur.com/JGgbZxp.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/dgZBtor.gif)

Well, try out the weapons a bit more. I agree with being an overlap between the Machine Pistol and the SMG but I'd remove the SMG instead, since it's closer to the Rifle than the Machine Pistol.

Looks very exciting and I may want to use this in my next game but I wondering on two points. Firstly my current game uses XOP's as one of the mods I use and I've noticed that u seem to have added the commander rank to Harvesters & Abductors:
      - alienRank: 0
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 1
        dQty: 1
What was the reason behind this or is this part of the play testing? U've stated the following "Fixing idiosyncrasies and exploits of the original game, such as alien commanders being present in Battleships (despite the UFOpedia stating that they are only found in bases)" so why have them in the above mentioned ufo's.

Those are the alien scientists. If you check alienRaces, you'll see that there are two versions for each race, i.e. STR_SECTOID and STR_SECTOID_BASE. Alien Scientists are rank 0 on the former and Alien Commanders are rank 0 on the latter.

Quote
Secondly for a challenge I now play difficulty level 6 but the no of aliens don't increase beyond superhuman, only their stats. Is it a case of simply increasing the deployment no's in the .rul file or is it more complicated than that? Is there a limit to the no of aliens u can have in a mission particulary in regards to spawn points? I reference the following which may be off the point somewhat so apologies. https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Spawn_Points
 Really looking forward to this mod particularly the mj12 faction and the introduction of the scienctist alien rank.

If there are no more empty spawn points then the game will simply add more units to the existing ones:
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2358.0;attach=11441;image)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 16, 2015, 04:44:28 pm
Silly me, didn't notice that, thanks for clearing that up. Was number crunching there and from my figures I may have to go back down to superhuman level when I play this mod otherwise I'm going to get mc'd all over the place especially with the hybrid terrorists as on level 6 if I'm correct on my figures a hybrid wud have psi strength=136 and psi skill=76 meaning they wud have a 100% chance to mc any troop @ 29 squares, well outside normal visual range! At superhuman level this distance of a 100% chance drops to 3 squares. Thank goodness u only gave them 35 health. I think it'll be a case of blasting with high explosives etc as soon as u see them. The real vision mod will help on this.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 16, 2015, 05:04:29 pm
Silly me, didn't notice that, thanks for clearing that up. Was number crunching there and from my figures I may have to go back down to superhuman level when I play this mod otherwise I'm going to get mc'd all over the place especially with the hybrid terrorists as on level 6 if I'm correct on my figures a hybrid wud have psi strength=136 and psi skill=76 meaning they wud have a 100% chance to mc any troop @ 29 squares, well outside normal visual range! At superhuman level this distance of a 100% chance drops to 3 squares. Thank goodness u only gave them 35 health. I think it'll be a case of blasting with high explosives etc as soon as u see them. The real vision mod will help on this.

Something else I've changed: all the alien's Psi Strength has been increased by 50%
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 16, 2015, 09:05:11 pm
Woops, I think my figures r badly wrong as psi% chance = 100/56(AS+25-DS-D) number crunches to a 100% chance @ 28 squares distance and 0% chance @ 84 squares. I think I was allowing for Batman armor which gives u +15 psi strength and +5 psi skill but even that number crunches to a 100% chance @ 12 squares distance and 0% chance @ 68 squares. These r both on superhuman level. I think on level 6 it wud be a 100% chance @ 38 squares distance even with batman armor. I think in my earlier calculations I forgot to add in the constant of 25 for mind control! Even with what I'm seriously considering uping psi strength cap to (115) and batman armor, they'll still be a bloomin challenge on superhuman level as  @ 20 squares distance they'll still have at least a 58% chance for mc and a 94% chance to panic @ 20 squares. Funny enough I was thinking along ur lines the other day about how weak psionically some of the aliens r. But hey that's taking all the fun out of it isn't it. I think the lesson to learn will be 3 fold, use loads of smoke grenades, don't let them c u and if they do c u on ur turn make sure they don't live to tell their chums! Well when I finish my current game this will certainly be a unique challenge to try tho I'll likely get creamed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Roxis231 on February 16, 2015, 10:58:17 pm
Hobbes - I've Updated My Optical Elerium Mod.

Just minor changes to the manufacture of the clips, but you might want to add them to your mod.

Roxis 231
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 18, 2015, 05:23:11 am
I have experienced a crash on the very first mission (a landed UFO). It was a medium scout, which didn't have any usual UFO items like the power source in it except for a Sectoid corpse. Also the crew are Mercenaries. After killing all the Mercenaries, the game crashes when I try to end the mission.

As above I seem to be experiencing the same crash, but my particular scenario involves a crashed mercenary skyranger, even tho I'm using ufo redox v0.3. I'm using the latest nightly of 2015-02-17.

The following are the mods I've on in this order:

rulesets:
  - Xcom1Ruleset
  - Acid_Weaponry
  - Batman
  - CUSTOM STATSTRINGS
  - CivArmorRich
  - CraftMissleSound
  - DartPistol
  - Enforcer
  - ExtraPockets
  - Extra_Explosions
  - FlashBangGrenades
  - Ironman Super Suit
  - MassAccelerator
  - PSX_Static_Cydonia_Map
  - PowerSuitHelmOff
  - Predator
  - SPACEMARINES
  - TacticalNuke
  - UFOextender_Gun_Melee
  - ViperAssaultCannon
  - WeaponNaymore
  - WeaponPowerGlove
  - WeaponTranquilizer
  - XcomUtil_Fighter_Transports
  - XcomUtil_High_Explosive_Damage
  - XcomUtil_Improved_Ground_Tanks
  - XcomUtil_Pistol_Auto_Shot
  - XcomUtil_Skyranger_Weapon_Slot
  - small_rocket_small
  - UFO_Redux_Nightly
  - Improved_Recruit_Start_Stat
  - Alternate_Lightning_Thunder
  - 2012DeathSounds
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 18, 2015, 04:54:24 pm
Hobbes - I've Updated My Optical Elerium Mod.

Just minor changes to the manufacture of the clips, but you might want to add them to your mod.

Roxis 231

Thanks for the notice.

As above I seem to be experiencing the same crash, but my particular scenario involves a crashed mercenary skyranger, even tho I'm using ufo redox v0.3. I'm using the latest nightly of 2015-02-17.

There's a bug with the mercenary bodies/research that I haven't been able to resolve yet, this is probably related.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 18, 2015, 05:59:48 pm
Thanks for the quick reply, I'll keep my eye open for any update or solution to this problem. In the meantime I'll amuse myself by playing a game using the new mod "Research live aliens v1.3". To make this an even bigger challenge I've edited all the vanilla aliens psi strength by 50% like in your own mod. The strongest psi alien in this mod will be an Ethereal commander with psi str=116 and psi skill=58 on superhuman.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 18, 2015, 08:58:43 pm
Thanks for the quick reply, I'll keep my eye open for any update or solution to this problem. In the meantime I'll amuse myself by playing a game using the new mod "Research live aliens v1.3". To make this an even bigger challenge I've edited all the vanilla aliens psi strength by 50% like in your own mod. The strongest psi alien in this mod will be an Ethereal commander with psi str=116 and psi skill=58 on superhuman.

I just tested and I'm not getting crashes with Mercenary missions, your issue may be an old saved game that still has the Sectoid corpse present.

I'm focusing in figuring out why the mercenary bodies and captives don't appear for research.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 18, 2015, 11:29:57 pm
So what u r saying is that none of the mods that I have on wud cause any problems, it's a mystery to me what's causing the problem as it's beyond my knowledge but sure I'll play out the other game which shud last me a while as higher alien deployments will certainly be a challenge. I'll come back to this one in time and try it with a brand new later nightly and those particular mods assuming they're hokey doke. Just one final point I assume the order of those mods wudn't have caused the problem as I tried to leave redux as late as possible in the options.cfg file?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 19, 2015, 05:26:38 am
So what u r saying is that none of the mods that I have on wud cause any problems, it's a mystery to me what's causing the problem as it's beyond my knowledge but sure I'll play out the other game which shud last me a while as higher alien deployments will certainly be a challenge. I'll come back to this one in time and try it with a brand new later nightly and those particular mods assuming they're hokey doke. Just one final point I assume the order of those mods wudn't have caused the problem as I tried to leave redux as late as possible in the options.cfg file?

From their names they seem compatible but I don't know half of those mods so it could be possible. It could well be that something got replaced that was needed for another mod. And that can happen regardless of the mod order.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 19, 2015, 02:40:03 pm
Thanks Hobbes for the info, discounting the xcom1.rul file there are 32 other mods on so I think when I get round to trying redux again I'll take it as follows: try redux on its own then add 1 mod @ a time checking if and when the crash to the desktop happens. This may find out what or who the guilty culprit is? Like some of these mods are near a year old but I did try and not have anything conflicting to the best of my ability, also tried to not have anything that was affecting maps, routes, terrain or use custom exe's prior to the November map script changes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 19, 2015, 04:34:47 pm
Thanks Hobbes for the info, discounting the xcom1.rul file there are 32 other mods on so I think when I get round to trying redux again I'll take it as follows: try redux on its own then add 1 mod @ a time checking if and when the crash to the desktop happens. This may find out what or who the guilty culprit is? Like some of these mods are near a year old but I did try and not have anything conflicting to the best of my ability, also tried to not have anything that was affecting maps, routes, terrain or use custom exe's prior to the November map script changes.

Yeah, to playtest it is usually better to only use the mod you're testing, so that if anything goes wrong you know that it is the mod you're using or the game engine itself.

Also, at this point, the nightlies are going through a lot of changes - I read yesterday that a fix was applied to live aliens not appearing for research, which probably explains the issues I've been having with captured mercenaries.  ::)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 19, 2015, 05:11:48 pm
Yep totally agree with u as just for thourghness I tried once more with nightly 2015-02-18 1658 and redux 0.3 and nothing else except "Defensive Improved Base" and it was ok on the 1st mj12 skyranger but crashed on the 2nd one so I'll play it by ear in the meantime.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 19, 2015, 07:07:00 pm
Yep totally agree with u as just for thourghness I tried once more with nightly 2015-02-18 1658 and redux 0.3 and nothing else except "Defensive Improved Base" and it was ok on the 1st mj12 skyranger but crashed on the 2nd one so I'll play it by ear in the meantime.

Defensive Improved Base should conflict since I've changed the starting base design by adding an additional hangar. I'll keep an eye out for crashes at my end.

I finally figured out the issue with the mercenaries and their bodies, so that they now can be researched.

However, while I was trying to solve this bug, I came up with an alternative to having humans on the alien containment. What if you don't research/interrogate human mercenaries but instead on each successful mission you recover an object (document, electronic device, etc.) that gives you the relevant info when researched?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ridаn on February 19, 2015, 08:10:02 pm
What if you don't research/interrogate human mercenaries but instead on each successful mission you recover an object (document, electronic device, etc.) that gives you the relevant info when researched?
That should work. Mods like Piratez and FMP use stuff like Encrypted data discs which can be researched for random advanced techologies or just piece of lore. May be it is also possible to generate generic "Alien Corpse" item for introduction missions, without using a sectoid corpse entry.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 19, 2015, 09:24:25 pm
That should work. Mods like Piratez and FMP use stuff like Encrypted data discs which can be researched for random advanced techologies or just piece of lore. May be it is also possible to generate generic "Alien Corpse" item for introduction missions, without using a sectoid corpse entry.

Yeah, I know it can work, the question is, which solution is better?

If you add a alien corpse and want to research it you need to add the live alien unit first (and kill it during the mission). Otherwise it doesn't work. But that isn't a priority right now because Alien Containment is again operational from day 1.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: arrakis69ct on February 20, 2015, 12:11:50 am
Nice work
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: tollworkout on February 20, 2015, 04:08:10 am
hobbes. you can use mapscripts to place certain objects on the map. for example a fixed map. you know the layout and design. you can have many missions defined in rulsets using same map but maybe only one of them places a custom objects on the map. this custom objects cannot be found in the game otherwise. can be recovered and is used for technology research whatever. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 20, 2015, 06:48:39 pm
hobbes. you can use mapscripts to place certain objects on the map. for example a fixed map. you know the layout and design. you can have many missions defined in rulsets using same map but maybe only one of them places a custom objects on the map. this custom objects cannot be found in the game otherwise. can be recovered and is used for technology research whatever.

Yup I know. I was already using this to add the Sectoid Corpse until I found out that it was crashing the game. There's also another solution which is to add the object to the unit on AlienDeployment, which I am going to use for "Operation Cookie Jar" (my personal codename for it), which will be a redo of one of the current Mercenary missions, where you basically have to steal tech from a massive fortified compound (dimensions will be either 100x100 or 120x120) and get out before the enemy finds and overwhelms you.

But I basically need to do a lot of things for this:
* Rework the current weapons
* Redo the MJ12 research to be based more on object recovery than interrogations
* Design Cookie Jar's terrain and mission.

Here's a sneak peek at Cookie Jar's maps.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 20, 2015, 07:20:06 pm
Regarding the weaponsets I've made a table comparing all of them and I've already got a few ideas.
* Remove the SMGs and PDWs. They are essentially different versions of the Rifles since they have Auto/Snap/Aimed but with different stats.
* Keep the Machine Pistol. It adds Auto fire to the Pistol although the stats for Snap/Aimed need to be reduced to compensate.
* Remove the Flamethrower. The firing mechanic (explosions) simply doesn't fit what the weapon is supposed to do (throwing a flame).
* Remove the MJ12 Magnum - repetition of the pistol, just with better stats.
* Rework the Sniper Rifle and Shotgun's stats to be more similar to the MJ12 equivalents for better balance.
* Limit autofire to 3 shots for the LMG and Minigun with the corresponding reduction in TU cost. I find that waiting for 6 or more shots to be fired takes too long. Also either remove the Snap shot from the LMG or also add Aimed shot.
* Redo the Multi-Launcher (more damage, less aim, lower clip capacity) and make it available to XCom. Remove the Multi-Launcher from the MJ12 and Cultists weaponsets.
* Decrease MJ12 plasma weapons stats. They're merely a copy of the existing plasma weapons at the moment.
* Remove the Shiv and Chainsaw from the Cultist weapons. I suspect that the AI currently doesn't know how to use melee weapons, unless the weapon is built in.

Any other ideas or suggestions?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Gifty on February 21, 2015, 01:07:32 am
These are all solid changes, I'd agree with them.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: the_third_curry on February 21, 2015, 03:01:33 am
A minor issue, but I believe the sound effects for the weapons could use some volume balancing.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XCOMFan419 on February 21, 2015, 05:14:33 am
I think an SMG is a welcome addition. I use them a lot whenever I see them in early game mods and the few mods that add Laser SMGs and Plasma SMGs. I usually issue them to my weaker soldiers/my rocketeers so they don't have to hoof it back to the Skyranger to grab a leftover gun.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 21, 2015, 06:03:48 am
I think an SMG is a welcome addition. I use them a lot whenever I see them in early game mods and the few mods that add Laser SMGs and Plasma SMGs. I usually issue them to my weaker soldiers/my rocketeers so they don't have to hoof it back to the Skyranger to grab a leftover gun.

My question about the SMG is how to differentiate them from the Rifle. From the other mods the way to differentiate it was to give it more auto shots, which I'd rather avoid, or to give it less aim/TU usage stats, turning it essentially into a carbine rather than an SMG.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XCOMFan419 on February 21, 2015, 02:57:10 pm
My question about the SMG is how to differentiate them from the Rifle. From the other mods the way to differentiate it was to give it more auto shots, which I'd rather avoid, or to give it less aim/TU usage stats, turning it essentially into a carbine rather than an SMG.
Less aim doesn't make sense, let me just get that outta the way. I never got that. An SMG is a magazine(Or Clip in Xcom's case)-fed, automatic carbine designed to fire pistol cartridges. So they would be smaller and do less damage. A common reason for SMGs in this day and age is the reduced risk for Overpenetration, so I guess an SMG wouldn't make sense :/ Other than for a lighter, does less damage rifle-like weapon.

However a Carbine would do the job perfectly. Fires the same shooting the same ammunition, while others fire lower-powered ammunition, including those designed for pistols.. But how to differentiate? I wouldn't know. Literally just a smaller rifle. Maybe because everyone is so large in Xcom that they have less aim stats because their sausage fingers can't wield the smaller rifle as well as the larger one  :P

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on February 21, 2015, 04:52:30 pm
Less aim doesn't make sense, let me just get that outta the way. I never got that. An SMG is a magazine(Or Clip in Xcom's case)-fed, automatic carbine designed to fire pistol cartridges. So they would be smaller and do less damage. A common reason for SMGs in this day and age is the reduced risk for Overpenetration, so I guess an SMG wouldn't make sense :/ Other than for a lighter, does less damage rifle-like weapon.

However a Carbine would do the job perfectly. Fires the same shooting the same ammunition, while others fire lower-powered ammunition, including those designed for pistols.. But how to differentiate? I wouldn't know. Literally just a smaller rifle. Maybe because everyone is so large in Xcom that they have less aim stats because their sausage fingers can't wield the smaller rifle as well as the larger one  :P

Your statements about smgs and carbines are right.  However the game balance question still remains.  If you make a carbine lighter than a standard rifle as the only difference, why would you ever bother with the rifle?  Everyone would just carry a carbine.

A carbine is quicker to aim and fire than a rifle, and somewhat less accurate due to the shorter barrel.  Designated marksmen and snipers don't use them for long range shooting, but they are good for clearing rooms and urban operations.

So back to game balance.  Lighter is fine.  Less aim is fine, because it should be used at shorter ranges.  Alternately, shorten the Range value.  I just started using my Dart Pistols in my game and I find myself facing alot of "out of range" messages.  Decreasing the TUs should factor in too.  Maybe one more shot than the rifle at snap and auto. Storming a ufo, a decent damage (rifle round), short range, quick weapon would be just the ticket.

As for machine pistols, the should have a bigger clip than the pistol, but should have a much shorter range.  The should also be heavier.  They can't just be a pistol replacement.  The vanilla pistol has ridiculous range and aim which I have been exploiting throughout my playthrough.  In my estimation, they are probably one of the most undervalued weapons in the game.  Against Veteran Level floaters and sectoids I see no reason to use anything else. 

Hobbes, I know these balancing issues can be tricky, and I haven't tried any mods with these two systems in them, but I've watched some playthroughs.   You are probably right in that the space between pistols and rifles is pretty narrow, and it should probably only be filled by one weapon.    Which that is, and how to balance it will take some play testing I guess. ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on February 21, 2015, 07:12:15 pm
If you are willing to use the accuracy extender, there are a fair few things that can be done to differentiate weapons. Playing with the min/auto/snap/aim/max ranges and drop off can allow you to create very different weapons. And of course there is damage, weight and # of autoshots too.

SMG vs Rifle? Make the SMG lighter, less damage, more autoshots, faster to fire, shorter aimRange (~30?), whereas the rifle is heavier, more powerful, slower and has a minRange (~7, to represent that it's not as good at close quarters). Now you have a breacher weapon and a GI weapon.

Pistol and machine pistol? Give both an aim range so they're not sniper rifles (or even rifles). The machine pistol gets more weight, less snap accuracy (it's heavy/harder to aim fast?), slower aim shots (or less accurate/less range), but gains an autoshot. The regular pistol makes a good sidearm for snipers and rocket troopers so they can engage at mid-range and when explosions would hurt people/valuables. The machine pistol is a good shotgun sidearm for breachers for when you need a little bit more range than the shotgun gives you.

Or you can do like I did in the XAE and keep it simple with pistol->shotgun->rifle->sniper rifle. Here each weapon has a very distinct role (scout&sidearm/breaching/GI/Long Range) and you keep things more to the spirit of the game: It's about the aliens and the fancy tech you gain, not about 20th century Earth weapons.

At some point, adding more weapons becomes useless because you don't even have the soldiers to field them. Especially if you're reducing the capacity of the skyranger to 10. Pistol for grenadiers/scouts, shotgun, SMG, rifle, sniper rifle, autocannon, heavy cannon, rocket launcher, grenade launcher: that's 9 weapons/roles/troopers. Add an attack dog for 10 and a tank, 14 spaces used for one of everything: The GI is as unique as a sniper, which is kind of crazy. Oh, and I forgot the flamethrower!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 21, 2015, 09:20:14 pm
XComFan419, Ivandogovich and Arthanor, thank you all for your comments about the weapons.

I've reduced the SMG stats with less aim - responding to XCOMFan419, there are a lot of factors in real life that justify it, bullets being pistol caliber and usually shorter weapon barrel,  e - and the extra auto fire ability. I still suspect that it will overlap with the machine pistol, so I'm not quite sure yet of this solution. It might make more sense to add a Carbine with aim stats close to the Rifle but with less weight and damage. But adding more choices is the easy way out when trying to balance weapons, IMHO.

The Machine Pistol has bigger weight than a pistol and less aim. The idea behind it was to make it a primary weapon for Grenadier/Scout or even as a complement to the Shotgun, but keeping the Pistol more attractive as a sidearm for Snipers/etc. I like the concept of having weapons designed for specific soldier roles, although in reality I tend not to follow it.

Simple is good. Getting on the Sniper Rifle and Shotgun to complement the original Pistol + Rifle is a good idea, but adding 1 or 2 more to the mix would be nice, if they're all balanced. My idea is to extend the time you are stuck with conventional weapons, so variety is a factor. But any choices added must also be meaningful.

I have never played with UFOExtender's accuracy and I decided not to worry about those settings for the time being. Later, when the weaponset is determined, then those settings should be reviewed, but for now to me they simply add a lot of additional factors to the balancing and not everyone uses the accuracy option.

I have never used UFOExtender's
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Midaychi on February 22, 2015, 03:55:06 am
If I try to run UFO redux .3 on the latest nightly it just errors that it can't find Resources/Redux/Units/Inventory/MJ12_AGENT.PNG , which isn't included in the zip at all anyways.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 22, 2015, 05:38:59 am
If I try to run UFO redux .3 on the latest nightly it just errors that it can't find Resources/Redux/Units/Inventory/MJ12_AGENT.PNG , which isn't included in the zip at all anyways.

I've just checked the zip and that file is included. Are you running it on Linux?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on February 22, 2015, 07:22:37 am
Linux (and Macs maybe too?) has case-sensitive paths. So if it is defined differently in the ruleset than it actually is named (even .png instead of .PNG matters) it will complain when loading.

It's actually a rather weird feature of Windows that YoU cAn WrItE lIke ThIs and it won't mind.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Midaychi on February 22, 2015, 07:30:01 am
Yeah I'm on linux. The thing is I don't even see that file anywhere in the mod zip even without the case?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: mrxian on February 22, 2015, 09:41:13 am
At some point, adding more weapons becomes useless because you don't even have the soldiers to field them. Especially if you're reducing the capacity of the skyranger to 10. Pistol for grenadiers/scouts, shotgun, SMG, rifle, sniper rifle, autocannon, heavy cannon, rocket launcher, grenade launcher: that's 9 weapons/roles/troopers. Add an attack dog for 10 and a tank, 14 spaces used for one of everything: The GI is as unique as a sniper, which is kind of crazy. Oh, and I forgot the flamethrower!
This is a very strong argument.

What also keeps popping into my mind when reading about all these new weapons is that firearms get replaced awfully quickly. In my playthroughs, I usually have laser rifles (or at least pistols) by the third UFO. So you have to keep in mind that all this extra choice you add to the game is only really relevant in a very small part of the game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 22, 2015, 03:19:24 pm
Yeah I'm on linux. The thing is I don't even see that file anywhere in the mod zip even without the case?

I've fixed the case for the next version. Meanwhile, here's the PNG file in attachment.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Midaychi on February 22, 2015, 11:19:58 pm
Thanks. I think something superweird is going on with ARK or I'm just being dumb cause the file was there. I think I was looking in the wrong directory.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on February 23, 2015, 10:14:27 am
Linux (and Macs maybe too?) has case-sensitive paths. So if it is defined differently in the ruleset than it actually is named (even .png instead of .PNG matters) it will complain when loading.

It's actually a rather weird feature of Windows that YoU cAn WrItE lIke ThIs and it won't mind.

OS x is based on a Unix derivat, so case sensitive is most likely be the case there also.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 24, 2015, 05:53:38 am
Uploaded version 3.1. List of changes:
* Fixed bug with Mercenary Autopsies and Interrogations.
* Fixed bug from the Terrain Pack regarding new terrains not appearing and MCD issues on the Tundra terrains.
* Reworked XCom conventional weapons, but haven't removed anything yet.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Midaychi on February 24, 2015, 06:16:22 am
This time I'm not imagining it though. /resources/redux/items/handobs/handob_elerium_bomb.gif really doesn't exist
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Midaychi on February 24, 2015, 06:47:55 am
I renamed a whole bunch of case-inconsistent files and was able to play a little bit, and it seemed cool. I was glad to finally get to be able to use the AWACS crafts in a modpack.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you did it but even references to vanilla assets are case-scrambled in inconsistent ways like they were cut out of magazines for a ransom note. Sometimes I could get into missions and other times i'd be like "Map generator encountered an error: PORTUFO script not found."

So this mod is effectively only playable on windows. Looks alright so far from what I saw.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 24, 2015, 02:47:01 pm
Uploaded version 3.1. List of changes:
* Fixed bug with Mercenary Autopsies and Interrogations.
* Fixed bug from the Terrain Pack regarding new terrains not appearing and MCD issues on the Tundra terrains.
* Reworked XCom conventional weapons, but haven't removed anything yet.

This time I'm not imagining it though. /resources/redux/items/handobs/handob_elerium_bomb.gif really doesn't exist

I renamed a whole bunch of case-inconsistent files and was able to play a little bit, and it seemed cool. I was glad to finally get to be able to use the AWACS crafts in a modpack.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you did it but even references to vanilla assets are case-scrambled in inconsistent ways like they were cut out of magazines for a ransom note. Sometimes I could get into missions and other times i'd be like "Map generator encountered an error: PORTUFO script not found."

So this mod is effectively only playable on windows. Looks alright so far from what I saw.

Just tried v3.1 there with nightly of 2015-02-22 and no other mods and encountered both of the above problems. Was able to work around the elerium bomb.gif file by using the one for the stun bomb from "improved hand obs" mod but the game crashes to desktop with the other error. Was also wanting to ask, I assume u r using all the new terrains from the terrain pack v3.1.4 and therefore there is no need to have this mod on?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Midaychi on February 24, 2015, 05:37:27 pm
I'm not using any mods alongside this.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 24, 2015, 05:47:00 pm
This time I'm not imagining it though. /resources/redux/items/handobs/handob_elerium_bomb.gif really doesn't exist

Just uploaded 0.3.2 to fix this.

I renamed a whole bunch of case-inconsistent files and was able to play a little bit, and it seemed cool. I was glad to finally get to be able to use the AWACS crafts in a modpack.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you did it but even references to vanilla assets are case-scrambled in inconsistent ways like they were cut out of magazines for a ransom note. Sometimes I could get into missions and other times i'd be like "Map generator encountered an error: PORTUFO script not found."

So this mod is effectively only playable on windows. Looks alright so far from what I saw.

The PORTUFO script bug has also been fixed. I have in my plans to rework the code for the assets by using only uppercases for files (for Linux users) but I'm waiting until it is decided which ones to keep and which ones to remove. The case differences you still see usually result from grabbing stuff from other mods.

Was also wanting to ask, I assume u r using all the new terrains from the terrain pack v3.1.4 and therefore there is no need to have this mod on?

If you just want the terrain Pack you don't need to use this mod. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on February 24, 2015, 09:54:43 pm
Good v0.3.2 seems to work ok on the limited test I did, I was able to do 3 or 4 missions with mercenaries in it and no probs, even researched the mercenary autopsy. I think I didn't make myself very clear in my earlier message, so sorry about that. What I meant was I assume u r using all the new terrains from the terrain pack v3.1.4 and as a result don't need the terrain pack if u r playing redux.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 25, 2015, 02:39:52 am
What I meant was I assume u r using all the new terrains from the terrain pack v3.1.4 and as a result don't need the terrain pack if u r playing redux.

My misinterpretation as well. :)

Yeah, basically any new additions to the Terrain Pack will be developed for Redux.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on February 26, 2015, 08:45:44 pm
Impressive work you've done here! I need to find time to playtest it since it looks like it might be one of the best 'total' mods on this site :) MJ12, damn, that takes me back... will there be Illuminati too? :)

And naturally the new maps are absolutely awesome.

Quick question: who is the author of your Grenade Launcher and Chainsaw sprites? They're deliciously industrial/diesel punk.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 26, 2015, 10:45:03 pm
Quick question: who is the author of your Grenade Launcher and Chainsaw sprites? They're deliciously industrial/diesel punk.

Those sprites were developed by Sportb for UFO2000. The original sprites are in RGB format, they acquired the current look after I converted them to the Xcom palette.

Impressive work you've done here! I need to find time to playtest it since it looks like it might be one of the best 'total' mods on this site :) MJ12, damn, that takes me back... will there be Illuminati too? :)

And to answer this question, right now there are 3 additional factions added: MJ12, Cultists (borrowing nearly everything from your Piratez mod regarding units and weapons) and the Overlord aliens (taken from XOps XenoOperations mod). I don't have in my current plans to develop more factions but Robin's MiB mod can also be used (I refrained to use any artwork from it). And other factions could be added, although the way missions are structured, every additional factions lessens the odds of any additional faction appearing.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 27, 2015, 04:48:47 pm
This is a schematic of the MJ12 base that I've been working on the past weeks.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/VADHINEH022720150932.png)

Each block is a 10x10 square, so the overall dimensions are 100x100x6 (I've actually tested up to 160x160 but the CPU wasn't too fond of it), or 4 times the size of a Terror Site. The color of each square indicates the type of map: Red - watchtowers and security fences; Blue - roads; Green - locations where a Primary objective building can be generated; Yellow - locations for secondary objectives. The Skyranger will land on either Green/Yellow squares, after the objectives are placed.

The mission objectives (they will be listed on the mission briefing, once it is possible to mod those) will be to locate the buildings that are objectives,  recover tech items from them, and get back to the Skyranger before you get overwhelmed by the defenders. The idea is that you'll need to choose what to recover from the buildings available rather than to clear the whole map of enemies.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on February 27, 2015, 08:37:57 pm
Hmm you might have some problem with the underlying idea (namely, the stealthy approach). While testing a large map with loads of enemies, I've found out that the enemies are actually drawn towards your position *once just a single one notices you*, albeit not very vigorously. Well, there are a lot of factors (90% of the enemies in my test were melee), so I guess we'll have to wait till you get this mission going to see what happens :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 27, 2015, 10:05:41 pm
Hmm you might have some problem with the underlying idea (namely, the stealthy approach). While testing a large map with loads of enemies, I've found out that the enemies are actually drawn towards your position *once just a single one notices you*, albeit not very vigorously. Well, there are a lot of factors (90% of the enemies in my test were melee), so I guess we'll have to wait till you get this mission going to see what happens :)

Got it, thanks. I had already to take into account while designing the issue that on turn 20 all aliens know where you are, so getting back to the Skyranger can be an issue after turn 20. There are also other little tweaks that I'm implementing, like the enemy Snipers on the guard towers, which will have specific routes for them and should keep them in those towers. And one of the 30x30 maps will actually be an 'UFO' concerning game mechanics, so some enemy units will never leave it. But I'll keep your tip in mind. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on February 28, 2015, 12:23:59 am
Not sure if this is the right place to post bugs for your "old" terrain, if not, then sorry:

- The Cinema building in the Commercial tileset. I was getting explosion & ricochet FX's when I was walking across it, instead of footsteps FX.
- The Station building for the Railyard map. Sometimes (depending on the map spawn) there is no way of getting to the elevated galeries that run the length of the station (although maybe I should bother Solar about that last one, he was sort of in charge of Railyard afaik...).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 28, 2015, 12:44:42 am
Not sure if this is the right place to post bugs for your "old" terrain, if not, then sorry:

- The Cinema building in the Commercial tileset. I was getting explosion & ricochet FX's when I was walking across it, instead of footsteps FX.
- The Station building for the Railyard map. Sometimes (depending on the map spawn) there is no way of getting to the elevated galeries that run the length of the station (although maybe I should bother Solar about that last one, he was sort of in charge of Railyard afaik...).

Should be in the Terrain Pack thread but it's OK.

I'm not getting the explosion sounds on Cinema Building. Are you hearing those while walking next to the porn posters I used from your mod?

Solaris made the RMP files for Railyard but I designed the terrain for UFO2000. I think I know an easy solution for this problem.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on February 28, 2015, 05:01:41 am
I can't see any porn on the roof, maybe architecture porn, but then again, I'm not you :) Sure it seemed like ricochet (sound 22) for the left foot, large explosion for the right... Maybe my soldier was just that awesome with that thuderous walk, who knows? :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on February 28, 2015, 11:41:11 pm
I can't see any porn on the roof

OK, I know where the bug is now and I've fixed it. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 05, 2015, 06:20:09 pm
Major update coming up soon. It will include several changes:
* New terrain/texture/mission format (including the new version of the Terrain Pack)
* Reworked Research (less new topics and requirements)
* Skyranger and Avenger restored to full unit capability & restoring alienDeployment numbers to previous levels
* Several redundant weapons removed.

The biggest update though will come afterwards since I'm reworking the Mercenary, Cultist and Overlord missions (several of the changes above are related).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ThatDude on March 06, 2015, 06:29:02 am
It crashes when I try to make a base. No idea why. There's also no new cities in my games... what did I screw up in the installation?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 06, 2015, 03:38:21 pm
It crashes when I try to make a base. No idea why. There's also no new cities in my games... what did I screw up in the installation?

Are you trying to use it with the latest nightly? Because I haven't updated yet the .zip file with the required changes to make it work on the latest nightlies.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ThatDude on March 07, 2015, 05:03:52 am
Yeah, I'm using the latest. That must be the problem.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 07, 2015, 06:51:49 am
Version 0.3.3 is now available at the site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux).

List of changes:
* Updated to latest version of the Terrain Pack - it now includes Port Attacks as possible Terror Missions.
* Removed several weapons: SMG, Chainsaw, Flamethrower, Shiv, Magnum and PDW.
* Removed Guard Dog from MJ12 units (never thought I'd see an AI unit more useless than a Silacoid)
* Simplified Research Tree - several proposed subjects were dropped, now it is required to capture an Alien Scientist to unlock all Plasma Weapons, Psionics and Hyperwave Decoder. One Alien Engineer is required to unlock UFO Power Source and 1 Navigator to unlock UFO Navigation. Laser Weapons can only be unlocked by an MJ12/Mercenary Researcher (always available on the 4th mission of the 1st month). The rest of the original research tree now follows vanilla, although you still need to capture an Ethereal Commander to unlock Cydonia.
* Skyranger/Avenger unit capacity and number of aliens on missions restored to vanilla.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 07, 2015, 07:40:29 am
Well, the recent introduction of custom missions due to TFTD implementation has gotten me thinking on a lot of ideas at the moment.

Foremost are some modifications to the first month MJ12 mission, which are also related to the latest changes on the research tree. This mission will be essentially an Alien Base mission, with the base being established after the 3rd mission. So, instead of 'supply missions' there will be 'VIP transports' that you'll need to assault while landed to capture the scientist that unlocks Laser Weapons research. This mission takes place at the 100x100 base and the VIP Transport will actually be present during the mission.

Regarding the MJ12 Base that will be generated, when assaulting it (but not during VIP transport missions) there will always be one item present that when researched will unlock either advanced firearms, HWPs or interceptors. So, you can either milk the base for additional advanced weapons. And later (several months) a VIP transport will  bring a different scientist that when interrogated now unlocks Plasma Weapons. 

This will be the only MJ12 mission to happen on the entire game, so when you take out their base, they will never reappear. And they'll upgrade their weapons and equipment as the months go by. However, keeping the base alive will have the same score penalty as any other alien base, which can be partially offset by shooting down the monthly VIP transport. This will also have the effect of an alien base never being generated on your starting continent, until the mission list resets itself.

I'm thinking also to add all other factions as possible alternatives to the vanilla alien missions, so that they have better odds of appearing in certain mission types, like Cultists on Terror missions or Overlords in Research missions. And bring back the Alien Raid mission, now that there will a military terrain and the means to properly implement this type of missions, where you could have to defend a military base from the aliens.

Lots of possibilities ahead :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2015, 12:48:17 am
Hobbes, I know it's going back several pages (I'm catching up now), but the AI can use melee weapons perfectly fine. The trick is to add
Code: [Select]
    clipSize: -1
line to the weapon entry, otherwise the AI thinks the weapon has depleted ammo and will not use it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 08, 2015, 07:19:37 am
Hobbes, I know it's going back several pages (I'm catching up now), but the AI can use melee weapons perfectly fine. The trick is to add
Code: [Select]
    clipSize: -1
line to the weapon entry, otherwise the AI thinks the weapon has depleted ammo and will not use it.

If this is about the Guard Dog, the idea simply didn't fit with the rest but thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2015, 12:41:54 pm
If this is about the Guard Dog, the idea simply didn't fit with the rest but thanks.

I was under impression it was about regular melee weapons, but oh well.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stapledtapeworms on March 08, 2015, 11:23:20 pm
Will you will consider scaling the factory  in the 7th pic down little a bit? It's almost like TFTD in there.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 09, 2015, 12:51:24 am
Will you will consider scaling the factory  in the 7th pic down little a bit? It's almost like TFTD in there.

I liked that you said 'almost' since I'm actually trying to prevent that old TFTD feeling ;)

That factory is going to be replaced once I finished reworking the MJ12 missions. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Gifty on March 09, 2015, 02:58:18 am
Wow, as someone who was skeptical of a lot of the weapon additions, having played a lot more, I have to say that I'm really liking the feel of the armory now; I think the changes you've been making are sensible. The machine pistol has its own niche thanks to the range-based accuracy model, and the sniper rifle/LMG both add support but feel suitably distinct. IT'S COMIN' TOGETHER, MAN

Minor note, I was noticing some tall grass popping up inside UFOs in the grassland desert terrain. I'd also say the Omega weapons still feel pretty similar to their regulation counterparts, and with the art being pretty similar the two weapon sets feel a little confusing.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 09, 2015, 03:46:00 am
Minor note, I was noticing some tall grass popping up inside UFOs in the grassland desert terrain. I'd also say the Omega weapons still feel pretty similar to their regulation counterparts, and with the art being pretty similar the two weapon sets feel a little confusing.

Which UFO? I just checked and Grassland Desert looks fine to me. The issue might be one of modded UFOs which might be missing a ground tile.

The main difference between conventional and Omega are the upgraded damage stats. As for appearance the Omega weapons look distinct from the vanilla ones, IMHO.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Gifty on March 09, 2015, 06:29:17 am
It was a large scout, one of Luke's variants.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 09, 2015, 11:48:20 pm
It was a large scout, one of Luke's variants.

Too much variations to figure it out. When you see it again can you please take a pic and post here? about the new mission system.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 10, 2015, 12:05:23 am
There's still an obscene amount of work required before I publish this but here's the first preview of the MJ12 Base, using the new Area 51 terrain. Sorry for the extra size of the pics but reducing their size has a noticeable effect on quality.

Right now the base is 100x100 in dimensions. The location of the base' roads and fences is fixed, as well as the general locations of the 10x10 and 20x20 buildings (but the type of buildings will be random). The location of the Skyranger and the MJ12 Transport Plane (which is carrying a scientist that you need to capture if you ever want to develop laser weapons) are also random.

I'm also designing the Area51 terrain as a possible Terror mission type to use once I figure out a few things about the new mission system
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 12, 2015, 01:06:15 am
All of the 10x10 maps have been redesigned at this point, right now I've started converting the Area51 20x20 maps to the new MapDataSet order. I'm basically reusing a lot of old Area51 maps I had designed both for the original game and UFO2000 but it takes time since there are so many of them.

My major doubt right now is the color of the perimeter towers. Here's the 3 possible choices.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on March 12, 2015, 01:17:08 am
#2 !   Its a big improvement on the Ever Present XCOM Grey! ;)
Cheers!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on March 12, 2015, 01:46:19 am
I like the corrugated steel sidings of #2 and #3, and I think #3 is more cohesive, that'll get my vote!

If you can get a darker upper level for #2, that could be nice too..!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2015, 11:59:57 am
I like the corrugated steel sidings of #2 and #3, and I think #3 is more cohesive, that'll get my vote!

If you can get a darker upper level for #2, that could be nice too..!

+1.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 12, 2015, 01:11:46 pm
Definitely #1, looks most realistic. But the barbed wire barricades from #2 are too good to pass... and #3 has the best placement on the map block :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on March 12, 2015, 02:10:54 pm
I like the look of the base and the design.

Hobbes how did you manage to fixate the roads? Or better in general as far as i understand you have fixed layout in which random modules at specific positions could spawn right? I would be inclined for the mapscript :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 12, 2015, 03:00:18 pm
OK, so concerning the look of the perimeter towers we have: 
#1 - 1 vote
#2 - 1 vote
#3 - 2 votes

I'll wait a couple more days to see if there are more votes.

I like the look of the base and the design.

Hobbes how did you manage to fixate the roads? Or better in general as far as i understand you have fixed layout in which random modules at specific positions could spawn right? I would be inclined for the mapscript :)

Here's the current mapScript:
Code: [Select]
mapScripts:
  - type: AREA51BASE
    commands:
    - type: addBlock # Fence Corner NW
      rects:
        - [0, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: [50, 51]
    - type: addBlock # Fence West Tower A
      rects:
        - [0, 2, 1, 1]
      blocks: 38
    - type: addBlock # Fence West Tower B
      rects:
        - [0, 5, 1, 1]
      blocks: 38
    - type: addBlock # Fence West Tower C
      rects:
        - [0, 7, 1, 1]
      blocks: 38
    - type: addBlock # Fence West
      rects:
        - [0, 1, 1, 8]
      executions: 5
      blocks: [39, 40, 41, 42]
      maxUses: [2, 1, 1, 2]
    - type: addBlock # Fence Corner SW
      rects:
        - [0, 9, 1, 1]
      blocks: [48, 49]
    - type: addBlock # Fence North Gate
      rects:
        - [3, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: 32
    - type: addBlock # Fence North Tower A
      rects:
        - [2, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: 28
    - type: addBlock # Fence North Tower B
      rects:
        - [4, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: 28
    - type: addBlock # Fence North Tower C
      rects:
        - [7, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: 28
    - type: addBlock # Fence North
      rects:
        - [1, 0, 8, 1]
      executions: 4
      blocks: [29, 30, 31]
      maxUses: [2, 1, 1]
    - type: addBlock # Fence Corner NE
      rects:
        - [9, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: [54, 55]
    - type: addBlock # Fence East Gate
      rects:
        - [9, 6, 1, 1]
      blocks: 47
    - type: addBlock # Fence East Tower A
      rects:
        - [9, 5, 1, 1]
      blocks: 43
    - type: addBlock # Fence East Tower B
      rects:
        - [9, 7, 1, 1]
      blocks: 43
    - type: addBlock # Fence East Tower C
      rects:
        - [9, 2, 1, 1]
      blocks: 43
    - type: addBlock # Fence East
      rects:
        - [9, 1, 1, 8]
      executions: 4
      blocks: [44, 45, 46]
      maxUses: [2, 1, 1]
    - type: addBlock # Fence Corner SE
      rects:
        - [9, 9, 1, 1]
      blocks: [52, 53]
    - type: addBlock # Fence South Tower A
      rects:
        - [2, 9, 1, 1]
      blocks: 33
    - type: addBlock # Fence South Tower B
      rects:
        - [4, 9, 1, 1]
      blocks: 33
    - type: addBlock # Fence South Tower C
      rects:
        - [7, 9, 1, 1]
      blocks: 33
    - type: addBlock # Fence South
      rects:
        - [1, 9, 8, 1]
      executions: 5
      blocks: [34, 35, 36, 37]
      maxUses: [2, 1, 1, 2]
    - type: addBlock # Crossroads
      rects:
        - [3, 3, 1, 1]
      blocks: [14, 15]
    - type: addBlock # Crossroads
      rects:
        - [3, 6, 1, 1]
      blocks: [14, 15]
    - type: addBlock # Crossroads
      rects:
        - [6, 3, 1, 1]
      blocks: [14, 15]
    - type: addBlock # Crossroads
      rects:
        - [6, 6, 1, 1]
      blocks: [14, 15]
    - type: addBlock # Road
      rects:
        - [4, 3, 2, 1]
      executions: 2
      blocks: [4, 5, 6]
    - type: addBlock # Road
      rects:
        - [4, 6, 5, 1]
      executions: 4
      blocks: [4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
      maxUses: [1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
    - type: addBlock # Road
      rects:
        - [3, 1, 1, 5]
      executions: 4
      blocks: [9, 10, 11, 12, 13]
      maxUses: [1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
    - type: addBlock # Road
      rects:
        - [6, 4, 1, 2]
      executions: 2
      blocks: [9, 10, 11]
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [6, 2, 1, 1]
      blocks: 25
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [2, 3, 1, 1]
      blocks: 24
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [2, 6, 1, 1]
      blocks: 24
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [3, 7, 1, 1]
      blocks: 27
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [6, 7, 1, 1]
      blocks: 27
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [7, 3, 1, 1]
      blocks: 26
    - type: addCraft
    - type: addUFO # LZ for enemy Skyranger
    - type: addBlock # 20x20 objective buildings
      groups: 6
      size: 2
      executions: 2
    - type: fillArea

And in attachment you can see the general layout (red = fences, blue = roads, yellow = locations for random buildings).

I'm designing this terrain also as a Build-Your-Own-Base Kit, including maps that I'm not using right now (road T junctions) so that you can design your own layout if you want to use it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on March 12, 2015, 04:27:43 pm

I have a question about the definition of rects, i asume: (there is no further explanation on the wiki)

[w, x, y, z]

w and x describe the position of the Tile on the map but what does y and z do? (maybe occurance rate ?)

And what are blocks? The wiki states you can give a block list, but how to define a list?
Is it just a numeric list of the maptiles how the occur within the defined terrain or how does it work?

Code: [Select]
mapScripts:
  - type: AREA51BASE
    commands:
    - type: addBlock # Fence Corner NW
      rects:
        - [0, 0, 1, 1]
      blocks: [50, 51]
    - type: addBlock # Road End
      rects:
        - [7, 3, 1, 1]
      blocks: 26
    - type: addCraft
    - type: addUFO # LZ for enemy Skyranger
    - type: addBlock # 20x20 objective buildings
      groups: 6
      size: 2
      executions: 2
    - type: fillArea

I'm designing this terrain also as a Build-Your-Own-Base Kit, including maps that I'm not using right now (road T junctions) so that you can design your own layout if you want to use it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 12, 2015, 05:29:18 pm
x,y = position of the square/rectangle's starting corner
w,z = dimensions of the square/rectangle (width/length or vice-versa, depending on what you consider width/length)

If I wanted to define the 2x2 space on the center of the layout above that is surrounded on all sides by roads it would be [4, 4, 2, 2]

So [7, 3, 1, 3] would define a rectangle with the starting corner position at 7,3 with a width of 1 and a length of 3

Blocks refer to the list of .MAP files that is defined under terrains. The number is not the one on the .MAP file's name, like URBAN18.MAP but their position on the list of .MAP files (first .MAP listed is block 0, second is block 1, etc.). A block list would be [0, 1, 2, 5]. Or you can assign a .MAP file to a group, and use it instead of block lists.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 14, 2015, 04:37:37 am
I've been doing some heavy brainstorming about the MJ12 missions and the changes brought by TFTD. My early idea of having an MJ12 Base is impractical due to how the Alien Base/Supply missions work together regarding alienDeployments and ufos so I've been looking for alternatives and I think I found a mission system for MJ12 that works. This might a little confusing if you don't understand the mechanics, but I'll be glad to explain any details.

Major spoilers follow.

The initial mission (MJ12 Introduction) will be slightly reworked:
* 1st UFO will actually be a Medium Scout with Sectoids (so that 1st combat actually will involve aliens)
* 2nd UFO will be another Medium Scout but with Mercenaries (the logic being that they got there first, killed all aliens and are in the process of retrieving the salvage)
* 3rd UFO will be a MJ12 Skyranger with Mercenaries. A Mercenary Leader will be present, if you capture and interrogate, it will reveal a bit more of the story. He will also carry an item that when researched will reveal that there is a 'facility' present who is about to be visited by a VIP. This is to inform the player that he should assault the landed craft instead of shooting it down.
* 4th UFO is at the Mercenary Facility (the 100x100 map illustrated on the previous posts). There will be a scientist present that if captured will unlock Laser Weapons research. The scientist will have a different colored uniform and will always be spawned at a certain building.

This mission always appears on the 1st month and never reappears again. If you fail to capture the scientist... well, prepare yourself for some months using only conventional weapons, although you can still get research Alien Alloys right away and develop Personal Armor.

But since 1 shot at getting Laser Weapons is a bit too extreme, MJ12 will reappear later, with a "MJ12 Transport" mission. This mission consists of a single Transport plane that will land on a coastal city and the mission can only be generated on the Atlantic and Indian oceans. It will take place on a Port facility where a Cargo Ship is docked that is carrying a cache of MJ12 Laser weapons. Those can be researched right away to finally unlock Laser Weapons.

However, the odds of this mission appearing on the first months will be rather low since it can only appear in 3 ocean regions, and you might miss detecting the Transport Plane, either by not having a base next to those oceans, your radar failing to pick it up, or even you shooting it down.

So, it order to even out the odds, there will be an "MJ12 HQ" mission. This will actually be structured as an Alien Terror mission, so you'll get the Mission Site warning but it will only take place around July (using the new missionWeight rules) and my current idea is that it will take place on a floating base in the Pacific (which is actually a very nice place to hide a base from everyone's sight). This could change to a land mission though since designing the terrain of this sea base will require a lot of work. Assaulting this base gives you the opportunity again to capture Laser Weapons and research them, or, better yet, capture another scientist that unlocks Plasma Weapons, although this scientist will be harder to find.

Technically I think I've got all of this figured out to be possible with the current Nightly build, and the MJ12 Introduction mission should be finished in the next weeks. However this plan will most likely suffer changes once I start implementing the other 2 missions or in case new mission customization features are added. I'd still love to have an Alien Base mission for MJ12 with Skyrangers running supply missions but it simply isn't possible.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 15, 2015, 05:17:29 am
I'm finishing the visual design of the base. Below you can see a composite image made with 4 pictures taken with Full Display view but reduced to 850 pixels wide.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/KMITHALQ031420151114.png)

The attached version below contains a 2700 pixel wide version for more detail.

I'm going to start working on the AI nodes shortly and then... anyone up for some play testing? :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on March 15, 2015, 07:33:27 pm
That looks really cool!

My only critic is that it looks weird to have the XCom skyranger landing on the base itself. The way you did it for the old alien raid missions, with the skyranger landing outside and having to get into the base seems more believable.

By opposition, if you do a new alien raid mission where XCom deploys to help the base, having the skyranger land on the base would make sense.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 15, 2015, 08:52:27 pm
That looks really cool!

My only critic is that it looks weird to have the XCom skyranger landing on the base itself. The way you did it for the old alien raid missions, with the skyranger landing outside and having to get into the base seems more believable.

By opposition, if you do a new alien raid mission where XCom deploys to help the base, having the skyranger land on the base would make sense.

And I actually designed the outside maps but there's one major technical issue with the Skyranger landing outside: bigger map sizes start to slow my laptop.

Plus, the way that base is fortified against outside attacks, just breaching it might take too long or be too difficult. To assault such a place would make more sense to drop inside. I even considered removing the Skyranger altogether and placing the XCom squad directly on a random map location, simulating a drop from a hovering craft, and, either place the Skyranger outside and the player would have to discover its location when it wanted to liftoff, or create exit areas on the base's gates. But I think this idea might be a little too crazy.

And I've also designed this base for a 'siege' or possible 'base defense' scenario. All your units start on the middle 20x20 section and the aliens all around the outside base perimeter. Although this would require some major AI node adjustments to work.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 16, 2015, 05:52:40 am
Plus, the way that base is fortified against outside attacks, just breaching it might take too long or be too difficult. To assault such a place would make more sense to drop inside.

Storming from outside would be suicidal without heavy weapons (which the X-Com doesn't have). I think the most logical solution is that they're flying there pretending to be mercs (or better yet, MJ12). Naturally the mercs see through the ruse as soon as the craft lands, but with their hands full with their VIP, are somewhat slow to respond...

With Siege scenario, you'd have to re-design the battlements - as partial cover in XCom is worth nothing, they should be composed mostly of full cover, with obstacle-blocked shooting windows all around. And the internal area should be elevated so the defenders can shoot people spot by the towers without being in danger of being reaction-fired upon.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 16, 2015, 07:37:52 am
With Siege scenario, you'd have to re-design the battlements - as partial cover in XCom is worth nothing, they should be composed mostly of full cover, with obstacle-blocked shooting windows all around. And the internal area should be elevated so the defenders can shoot people spot by the towers without being in danger of being reaction-fired upon.

With Siege scenario the issue is how fast the AI can move the aliens to attack and what are the possible player strategies to deal with the overall attack. You can storm one side to clear it of aliens, try to hold the center or try to stop the invaders everywhere.

I've played this scenario type against human players on UFO2000 multilplayer and for the defending player, one main problem would be enemy use of explosives. But here I have only considered this scenario on a terrain design level, although at mission level I'm not sure where to fit it. I thought of Base Defense, but then the human player can be seriously in pain with blaster bombs.

But it will really depend also at the speed of the AI, and if they get too caught on the perimeter fence.

But this is for later :) Now, getting back to the Mercenary Base - I'm designing the route nodes and testing AI units movement. So I thought I'd make a preview of some issue aspects. There are *major spoilers* involved with the following details, and if you don't want to know any details, then avoid the reading the text below or checking pics links.

First pic shows the Heliport. The most important thing to know about it: the scientist never starts there.
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/SZAPJWTY031620150130.png)

Second pic: the scientist is the only enemy unit on a white uniform, and it can start anywhere else on the map.
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/NEOGQDTQ031620150121.png)

This wasn't my original idea, but it is an alternative due to a technical limitation regarding enemy units spawning outside UFOs since they will be placed everywhere, regardless of rank, making it impossible to making him start on 2 or 3 random locations.

The alternative I see to this is having the scientist always starting at the 10x20 heliport area (the 'ufo') but that turns the mission into 'finding the building', which makes it uninteresting to check other buildings, So I though that 'finding the unique moving unit" sounded more unexpected.

And I will include a few 'goodies' in those buildings like weapons or tech, which I'll start implementing soon.

As for non-spoilerish news, most of the route nodes are done, except for the larger buildings, and I've finished redesigning the Mercenary units and missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on March 16, 2015, 02:31:14 pm
XCom skyranger could landing into base only when before you capture a enemy transponder and research it

I know than an enemy transponder could be recovered by an enemy crashed plane such as

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2934.0;attach=10967;image)

diuring a previous mission
 ;)

PS:
As you remember, it is  a terrain of ufo2k, on your site too, with specific map constraint position


https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2934.msg32094.html#msg32094
 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2934.msg32094.html#msg32094)

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 16, 2015, 06:17:17 pm
XCom skyranger could landing into base only when before you capture a enemy transponder and research it

I know than an enemy transponder could be recovered by an enemy crashed plane such as

diuring a previous mission
 ;)

PS:
As you remember, it is  a terrain of ufo2k, on your site too, with specific map constraint position


https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2934.msg32094.html#msg32094
 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2934.msg32094.html#msg32094)

This might actually be a nice map to add later for Desert missions on the Terrain Pack. :)

As for the transponder idea, the logic is too complicated and doesn't really work. Shooting at an MJ12 transport will usually destroy it altogether (no crash site), and there's no way to generate a mission based on completing research on a single item, so the Base mission always gets generated regardless if you capture the transponder or not.

My current solution is that you'll always get a item on the 3rd mission to give a tip to players who know nothing about the MJ12 missions that you need to capture someone on the next mission. That way there are no 'false' requirements that only exist on the modder's head and have no practical application in gameplay.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 17, 2015, 11:32:11 pm
Just finished implementing the 'goodies' that a player can retrieve from the Mercenary Base (minor spoilers)

First are the Data Disks - those will unlock advanced projects if retrieved and researched. You'll need to look for them inside buildings.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/BJICWKUP031720150522.png)

Then there will be weapons and ammo also inside buildings. Those can be recovered, and even used, if you completed the research on recovered Omega weapons from previous missions. Which can be useful in case you ran out of ammunition.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/HMFKMMDC031720150522.png)

And at this stage I'm done with adding new features and the redesign of the first month mission. I still need to playtest the routes before I publish this upgrade but it's getting close.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 19, 2015, 02:58:48 pm
Hey Hobbes, I've once promised to make some more civilians for your... I mean, general use, here's an inventory picture for the red jacket guy you're using:
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 19, 2015, 03:04:40 pm
Hey Hobbes, I've once promised to make some more civilians for your... I mean, general use, here's an inventory picture for the red jacket guy you're using:

Ah thanks but I'm actually using a generic paper doll for all the civilian inventory images. Since those will only be seen if you mind control a civilian to me it just doesn't justify the work of creating specific ones for every civilian.

Regarding this mod, I've finished everything for the next update. But I still want to do a last playthrough of the mission before publishing it. The problem was that my radar failed to detect the last MJ12 transport, and then I had a squad wipe at the 1st Terror Site despite my fancy new Omega weapons. I'll try again today. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 20, 2015, 03:00:21 am
Version 0.3.4 uploaded to the mod site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux).

This version includes several fixes from the Terrain Pack, plus the complete rework of the initial MJ12 mission, including the new AREA51BASE terrain that is used on the Mercenary base during the capture Scientist mission.

For more details (a.k.a. spoilers) read the previous posts - this mission is still in a beta status. You might also encounter a possible OXC bug when loading from a save game where a UFO(s) has been generated where the terrain will be completely random.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/WDLTGZBV031920150905.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 20, 2015, 10:00:30 pm
Version 0.3.5 uploaded to the mod site.

Redone some of the sprites on the terrain files of Mercenary Base, to remove placeholders and introduce a little more color. Added animations to electronic screens/consoles and to the red alert lights. Redid some values, specially regarding flammability of tiles and fixed minor issues with the MCD settings.

I'm still test playing the AI but I'm already considering a few changes to the future, although I'd like to hear some feedback from other players before I change anything.

Just made another image preview of the Mercenary Base. The locations and types of buildings will be randomized for each mission. I'm also seriously considering making a smaller version of this terrain for Terror Site missions.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/XEUJDSCX032120150401.png)

For the full detail 3000 pixel version of the picture use this link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Area51Big.png (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Area51Big.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 23, 2015, 06:36:32 am
Version 0.3.6 is uploaded.

Includes additional sprite work to replace placeholders and fix visual issues. I think I'm almost done with the final aspect of the Mercenary Base, and to me the Area 51 terrain is starting to become more of a high tech base than a decrepit outpost and visually several elements now combine together. Check image attached.

Ãlso added additional maps (Armory, another VIP Transport LZ), and changed terrain script to increase number of available spots for LZs and slightly less determined road placement. Still got a couple of 20x20 map ideas to design, then I'll add the Area 51 terrain to the Terrain Pack, with a smaller version for Terror Sites.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 25, 2015, 03:36:47 am
UFO Redux 0.3.7 has been uploaded to the mod site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux), mod updated to the latest nightly.

At this point the Mercenary mission is finished and it now is more of an initial mini-campaign. For a list of full details, check the hidden text:

Initial Mission
The initial mission has been reworked as a mini campaign and now consists of 4 UFOs:
1) First one is Sectoids on a Medium Scout, signifying first encounter with the aliens
2) Then another Medium Scout and a dead alien corpse are found, as well a hostile human faction that arrived first to recover the UFO.
3) On the third mission the mercenaries' transport is intercepted and it is discovered that they are working for the Omega Corporation. And information is collected about an upcoming VIP flight to a nearby Omega Corporation facility.
4) Last mission is the assault on the Mercenary Base to capture the scientist, steal tech and/or loot their weapons.

Mercenary Base
The scientist is the only possible way to develop Laser Weapons, unless the player recovers one of the Omega's Corporation laser weapons, which they will start carrying on the next months. However, it may take months before the player ever re-encounters the Omega Corporation. The scientist has also an unique color but can be generated anywhere on the Mercenary base.

The base has 100x100x6 dimensions and around 60 mercenaries present, and he Skyranger can land anywhere inside it. The base is composed of several random buildings and open areas. There will be 3 large buildings present (out of 5 possible) which have inside them visible items that if researched unlock several tech upgrades:
* Research A - Omega Weapons ( allows for manufacture of their weapons and ammo)
* Hangar - Thunderstorm (upgraded interceptor)
* Research B - Combat Armor (between Coveralls and Personal Armor)
* Workshop - Improved HWPs (HWPs can be upgraded to the movement and protection of Hovertanks)
* Armory - contains of 1 item of all the Omega firearms. If all are recovered and researched, then Omega Weapons will be unlocked.

After the initial mission, the Omega Corporation can return in the following months.

Now that this is finished, I'm going to add the Area 51 terrain to the Terrain Pack as a Terror mission. And later I'm going also to reuse this terrain for other missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 25, 2015, 03:53:02 am
Very intricate! I'm very curious how it turns out in practice, since XCom seems pretty hostile to such detailed planned player progress. However if it will work as intended, my hat's off :)

The base is looking very well, that must be a truly gruelling mission. Almost a shame the enemies cannot attack you indirectly, say by snipers, mortars etc. (it'd increase incentive to stay as little exposed as possible).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 25, 2015, 06:15:32 am
Version 0.3.8 uploaded - contains a fix to a crash related to research and other tweaks. 

Very intricate! I'm very curious how it turns out in practice, since XCom seems pretty hostile to such detailed planned player progress. However if it will work as intended, my hat's off :)

The base is looking very well, that must be a truly gruelling mission. Almost a shame the enemies cannot attack you indirectly, say by snipers, mortars etc. (it'd increase incentive to stay as little exposed as possible).

Thank you. :)

It took some time figuring a mission that can be implemented with the current nightlies while getting it to fit with the rest of Redux. I think everything will work out once all the bugs are removed.

I got the artistic inspiration from some of the stuff you did recently in Piratez, while designing the sprites for the base. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 25, 2015, 03:37:59 pm
Hello,

First time on the forums. I've played I believe most of the ufo games (all the strategy-based), the after-series and the 2012.

A friend of mine told me about the openxcom project and I've been astonished by the work done and now by the additional content brought by the mods.

I've been trying your mod and I found several bugs and gathered some opinions on the mod. I want to share both in hopes of helping in the development.

I've been using the nightly build 2015-03-15 and the version 0.3.6 of the mod.

About bugs:
-I'm currently stuck in a terror mission which crashes to desktop upon destroying a cyberdisc. The map is one from TFTD, a wharf. I can provide the savefile or whatever you need if you like.
-There is some issue with the researchs, autopsies bring the news (which is quite cool) but they seem to reset the autopsy again in the research screen. Researching it again seem to provide nothing. Then, there are some researches which bring new stuff but doesn't deliever the ufopedia page (the thunderstorm vehicle for example) upong research and after for reading.

Then, About the feedback:

The things I've seen so far are quite cool. The mix of alien groups is interesting and the mini-campaign is promising and quite well crafted. The mercenary faction is quite interesting and the "reaping for weapons" is quite interesting. The variety of options is nice although it crowds heavily the inventories.

Despite this, the mod itself seems to throw and awful increase in difficulty, and makes a bottleneck. Here's some arguments about that:

MERCS
The mercenary stats seem to be quite higher than the usual xcom squad at that pace of the game, making them a significant thread. In addition, they have better weaponry to use against your forces. To overbalance even further this fact, they tend to appear in overwhelming numbers such as 45 (vs 14 xcom members available on the skyranger).

This quantity made them appear in groups of 3 each few steps in every direction in a map of full desert (and the small base). Under such circumstances, the tactical options of the map are none, requiring save scuming and underdog tactics of snipers and explosive ammunition in order to manage to kill them fast enough (stunning also and regrettably is not an option option). I tried first to do it at night and restarted as I hadn't enough electro-lights to cover the whole scenario (and night shoots with this accuracy is imposible to surpass).

After this one it seemed that the next skyranger I crossed was sunken in the sea and I haven't meet more mercs at the moment.

My thoughts on the merc is rather choose quality of quantity. Or do a balanced mix. Upon inhibiting the research you stuck the game to have personal armor, the omega weapons and with luck a better soldier stats. This would be balanced  if not for the huge quantities of mercs you have to fight (and I've seen your approach for the base, like 60 on a oversized map, more than 4 vs 1 ratio). It seems Cydonia and alien base assaults would fall short after this event XD.

My suggestions for the missions:
-Make them cannonfodder with normal weapons and the omega weapons as some key data you retrieve in the missions to manufacture.
-Do an equivalent xcom team (14 or less soldiers) with intermediate stats (better than a rookier, less than a seasoned veteran) and omega weapons.
-Do cannon fodder commanded by some badass soldiers with the omega weapon.

Then about the huge maps, I would suggest to forget these huge maps because There's too much mayhem and chaos to manage in such maps. Additionally, capture (in case you want to use it) is impossible due to the long lasting fight and management you have to make for the captives. Also an uneven enemy appearance may doom your play due to overwhelming forces.

Said this, the idea of the base is nice (and the art you made is awesome) and maybe could be brought into a different shape: Three scenarios (if they can be followed up on the same combat, better). One on the base border (reaching the perimeter fence and the guard post), one on the main entrance and hangars, and the last one in a underground complex. 20 soldiers in each one with increasing difficulty as you go down and on a smaller maps. This would follow a little bit the approach of the terror missions on TFTD, making it punishing but more bearable than fighting both waves on a bigger map.

Lastly, some ideas for the campaign plot:

- The merc appearance could be done by presenting them as crash sites directly? (if this is possible, it would avoid throwing them into water and provide with a more plausible way than xcom shooting a plane that appears on their radar and readed as a ufo).

- Mission 1, 2 and 3 can be packed into "merc mission" standard in which you recover the black box of the plane and a random tech data (such as the alien medic/navigator behaves). Upon completing a given number of researches you could pinpoint their base and do the final assault. This template could serve as a template for previous and post base assault merc missions in the game.


Then on closure:

I know my feedback may sound presumptuous (and maybe it is :P). I know this mod is your baby and you dedicated a lot of hours to it (it is quite noticeable).

By any means this comments are meant to be negative but to give my experience of the mod so far and my thoughts on how could be improved to a more tuned difficulty for the whole game.

Looking forward to see how evolves  ;D.



Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 25, 2015, 05:37:38 pm
About bugs:
-I'm currently stuck in a terror mission which crashes to desktop upon destroying a cyberdisc. The map is one from TFTD, a wharf. I can provide the savefile or whatever you need if you like.
-There is some issue with the researchs, autopsies bring the news (which is quite cool) but they seem to reset the autopsy again in the research screen. Researching it again seem to provide nothing. Then, there are some researches which bring new stuff but doesn't deliever the ufopedia page (the thunderstorm vehicle for example) upong research and after for reading.

The save file would be useful, I've tested blowing up a Cyberdisc in the port terrain but had no crashes.

I've made a few fixes to research on the latest update. I'll look into the research more to see how to fix the autopsies/news.

Quote
Then, About the feedback:

Despite this, the mod itself seems to throw and awful increase in difficulty, and makes a bottleneck. Here's some arguments about that:

MERCS
The mercenary stats seem to be quite higher than the usual xcom squad at that pace of the game, making them a significant thread. In addition, they have better weaponry to use against your forces. To overbalance even further this fact, they tend to appear in overwhelming numbers such as 45 (vs 14 xcom members available on the skyranger).

This quantity made them appear in groups of 3 each few steps in every direction in a map of full desert (and the small base). Under such circumstances, the tactical options of the map are none, requiring save scuming and underdog tactics of snipers and explosive ammunition in order to manage to kill them fast enough (stunning also and regrettably is not an option option). I tried first to do it at night and restarted as I hadn't enough electro-lights to cover the whole scenario (and night shoots with this accuracy is imposible to surpass).

45 mercs on a mission is strange because their numbers are fixed: 10 mercs each for the 1st and 2nd missions, then around 60 for the Base mission. 

And you were not supposed to get the mercenary base on desert map, that happened due to an OpenXCom bug that was fixed with yesterday's nightly. The experience you had was definitely not typical of merc base.

Quote
My thoughts on the merc is rather choose quality of quantity. Or do a balanced mix. Upon inhibiting the research you stuck the game to have personal armor, the omega weapons and with luck a better soldier stats. This would be balanced  if not for the huge quantities of mercs you have to fight (and I've seen your approach for the base, like 60 on a oversized map, more than 4 vs 1 ratio). It seems Cydonia and alien base assaults would fall short after this event XD.

A little bit of statistics first: a vanilla Terror Site has around 20-25 aliens on a 50x50 map, or Alien Base has around 30 aliens on a 60x60. The Mercenary Base has around 60 mercs on a 100x100 map (4 times the area size of 50x50), so the ratio between units and area is actually quitelower than in the vanilla missions. So you can start the Merc base mission on a location with few mercs or a lot of them, depending on the RNG during unit placement, plus the AI is set to defend certain map blocks, meaning that not all units will head towards your position. 

Quote
My suggestions for the missions:
-Make them cannonfodder with normal weapons and the omega weapons as some key data you retrieve in the missions to manufacture.
-Do an equivalent xcom team (14 or less soldiers) with intermediate stats (better than a rookier, less than a seasoned veteran) and omega weapons.
-Do cannon fodder commanded by some badass soldiers with the omega weapon.

This I need to think a bit about first. I could definitely reduced their stats, but I already think that the Mercs are terrible against my tactics :)

HWPs are specially effective against them since even the Omega weapons can barely scratch their armor. Giving Mercs normal weapons would even make this situation worse (for the mercs).

Quote
Then about the huge maps, I would suggest to forget these huge maps because There's too much mayhem and chaos to manage in such maps. Additionally, capture (in case you want to use it) is impossible due to the long lasting fight and management you have to make for the captives. Also an uneven enemy appearance may doom your play due to overwhelming forces.
´
The only huge map appears on the Merc Base mission and it will never be repeated. The idea is precisely to throw a different situation to the player and you can approach this mission with different objectives:
- Clear the entire base of mercs. This is the hardest choice, due to the number of mercs and time required to clear all the base, but if successful you recover all the weapons and tech laying around.
- Locate and capture the only scientist (there is only 1 of them to capture), then retreat to the Skyranger
- Search buildings to look the 2 possible techs, then retreat to the Skyranger.
 
You can and should mix these objectives according to the mission start. If you land next to one of the Objective buildings then you have a specific tech waiting to be picked up, and once you've learned how to recognize the building you'll know which tech is has. If the scientist hasn't started next to LZ, then you'll need to explore a bit until you find it, etc.

All of this isn't clear when you first play this mission (I wanted to include these 'tips' on the mission briefing but it isn't possible at the moment) but the intention is for players to plan specifically for this mission. You want Laser Weapons? Then you'll need to spend some time to find the scientist. But if you take the mission and get Combat Armor + Improved HWPs then you already have two nice techs to make up for not getting Laser Weapons. Either way, you can always get something out of this mission, although it might not be what you had planned for.

Quote
Said this, the idea of the base is nice (and the art you made is awesome) and maybe could be brought into a different shape: Three scenarios (if they can be followed up on the same combat, better). One on the base border (reaching the perimeter fence and the guard post), one on the main entrance and hangars, and the last one in a underground complex. 20 soldiers in each one with increasing difficulty as you go down and on a smaller maps. This would follow a little bit the approach of the terror missions on TFTD, making it punishing but more bearable than fighting both waves on a bigger map.

I dislike the idea of TFTD multipart missions and the wave issue was mainly related to the base taking place on a Desert map, where the map blocks are designed for the AI to roam. I've had base missions where I land, wipe out the mercs nearby and then I'll have to spread my perimeter until I meet more mercs.

Quote
Lastly, some ideas for the campaign plot:

- The merc appearance could be done by presenting them as crash sites directly? (if this is possible, it would avoid throwing them into water and provide with a more plausible way than xcom shooting a plane that appears on their radar and readed as a ufo).

- Mission 1, 2 and 3 can be packed into "merc mission" standard in which you recover the black box of the plane and a random tech data (such as the alien medic/navigator behaves). Upon completing a given number of researches you could pinpoint their base and do the final assault. This template could serve as a template for previous and post base assault merc missions in the game.

First one is possible, but it is not very good regarding game mechanics. And you can actually check if the plane is a UFO or a transport by clicking in the intercept button that shows the craft's shape.

Second mechanic doesn't work. There's no way to make missions dependent on research. I could set the first 3 missions to recover black boxes/tech but the 4th mission would always be generated.

Quote
Then on closure:

I know my feedback may sound presumptuous (and maybe it is :P). I know this mod is your baby and you dedicated a lot of hours to it (it is quite noticeable).

By any means this comments are meant to be negative but to give my experience of the mod so far and my thoughts on how could be improved to a more tuned difficulty for the whole game.

Looking forward to see how evolves  ;D.

Your comments were very useful. Thank you :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 25, 2015, 10:58:55 pm
First of all thank you for the response and the time given to respond my post. It is very much appreciated.

The save file would be useful, I've tested blowing up a Cyberdisc in the port terrain but had no crashes.

I've made a few fixes to research on the latest update. I'll look into the research more to see how to fix the autopsies/news.

I attach now the saved game files. There is one in the given combat and another one in geoscape that may be able to reproduce the issue with the researchs. In any case I will update both nightly and mod and restart the game to see if the problem persists.

45 mercs on a mission is strange because their numbers are fixed: 10 mercs each for the 1st and 2nd missions, then around 60 for the Base mission. 

And you were not supposed to get the mercenary base on desert map, that happened due to an OpenXCom bug that was fixed with yesterday's nightly. The experience you had was definitely not typical of merc base.

A little bit of statistics first: a vanilla Terror Site has around 20-25 aliens on a 50x50 map, or Alien Base has around 30 aliens on a 60x60. The Mercenary Base has around 60 mercs on a 100x100 map (4 times the area size of 50x50), so the ratio between units and area is actually quitelower than in the vanilla missions. So you can start the Merc base mission on a location with few mercs or a lot of them, depending on the RNG during unit placement, plus the AI is set to defend certain map blocks, meaning that not all units will head towards your position. 

This I need to think a bit about first. I could definitely reduced their stats, but I already think that the Mercs are terrible against my tactics :)

Glad to hear I was some corruption of the base assault. The map was desert as the plane crashed on south africa. It may be an overlapping between map generators?

If the base number of mercs is around 10 then is quite balanced. Can you give me more details on the squad composition? Out of curiosity :P


The only huge map appears on the Merc Base mission and it will never be repeated. The idea is precisely to throw a different situation to the player and you can approach this mission with different objectives:
- Clear the entire base of mercs. This is the hardest choice, due to the number of mercs and time required to clear all the base, but if successful you recover all the weapons and tech laying around.
- Locate and capture the only scientist (there is only 1 of them to capture), then retreat to the Skyranger
- Search buildings to look the 2 possible techs, then retreat to the Skyranger.
 
You can and should mix these objectives according to the mission start. If you land next to one of the Objective buildings then you have a specific tech waiting to be picked up, and once you've learned how to recognize the building you'll know which tech is has. If the scientist hasn't started next to LZ, then you'll need to explore a bit until you find it, etc.

All of this isn't clear when you first play this mission (I wanted to include these 'tips' on the mission briefing but it isn't possible at the moment) but the intention is for players to plan specifically for this mission. You want Laser Weapons? Then you'll need to spend some time to find the scientist. But if you take the mission and get Combat Armor + Improved HWPs then you already have two nice techs to make up for not getting Laser Weapons. Either way, you can always get something out of this mission, although it might not be what you had planned for.

Interesting approach. The key concept is really nice but I wonder how kind is the game mechanics to it. I'll be looking forward to see it develop and then provide feedback about it.


First one is possible, but it is not very good regarding game mechanics. And you can actually check if the plane is a UFO or a transport by clicking in the intercept button that shows the craft's shape.

Second mechanic doesn't work. There's no way to make missions dependent on research. I could set the first 3 missions to recover black boxes/tech but the 4th mission would always be generated.



The idea of the crash site is to "manage" the possibles dispersions of the air combat such as the sinking into the sea or the inability to shoot down the craft due to the lack of interceptors (repairing, rearming, refuelling,...). Yeah I know is quite an "if" but all weird things usually happens somewhere XD.

Also it gives a reasonable explanation of the mission"you are informed of a ufo shot down by some uknown forces...". It will also explain the third mission as a failed interception in which the merc plane is the one down (obtaining in this manner the base coordinates)

Then in terms of identification, you can identify them as merc mission as ufos never appear crashed directly (or do they? :S). In any case if it is too unfeasible ignore this comment.


Lastly I will throw one crazy idea. Is it possible for the base assault mission to be set as a base alien on the map? I say this because I believe it could have the following benefits:

-It let's you replay the mission in case is unfinished (you don't kill all the people).
-The appearance of the mission could be triggered such as in the monthly reviews were the council indicates the position of an alien base (you could trigger it to  given month or to a given research, if such bizarre approach is feasible).

Of course as a side effect could mess the country were it's located inviting it to leave the xcom project (as what the tradition alien base does).

I bear in mind this last point could be pretty complex to make as I have little clue about the game modding (I am quite skilled programmer but I wouldn't know were to start on it). In any case is just to bring more thoughts on possibilities of implementing this mini-campaign.

In any case I will restart again the campaign and see how it goes with the latest versions  :D



Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 26, 2015, 12:10:12 am
First of all thank you for the response and the time given to respond my post. It is very much appreciated.

I attach now the saved game files. There is one in the given combat and another one in geoscape that may be able to reproduce the issue with the researchs. In any case I will update both nightly and mod and restart the game to see if the problem persists.

I've just tested the combat time.sav and if the Cyberdisc is the one shown on the pic attached, then I'm able to shoot it and make it explode without any crashes.

As for the researches, I need to look into this matter in detail.

Quote
Glad to hear I was some corruption of the base assault. The map was desert as the plane crashed on south africa. It may be an overlapping between map generators?

OpenXcom bug with the saves not properly loading into the engine. It's been already fixed on the latest nightly. 

Quote
If the base number of mercs is around 10 then is quite balanced. Can you give me more details on the squad composition? Out of curiosity :P

There are 7 different looking mercenaries, although 3 (leader, scientist and technician) only appear during the base mission. Each type has stats/weapons as different classes, like sniper, heavy weapons or scout.

Quote
Interesting approach. The key concept is really nice but I wonder how kind is the game mechanics to it. I'll be looking forward to see it develop and then provide feedback about it.

All of this works with the current game mechanics. I did quite some testing with possible solutions before coming to this version.

Quote
The idea of the crash site is to "manage" the possibles dispersions of the air combat such as the sinking into the sea or the inability to shoot down the craft due to the lack of interceptors (repairing, rearming, refuelling,...). Yeah I know is quite an "if" but all weird things usually happens somewhere XD.

Also it gives a reasonable explanation of the mission"you are informed of a ufo shot down by some uknown forces...". It will also explain the third mission as a failed interception in which the merc plane is the one down (obtaining in this manner the base coordinates)

Then in terms of identification, you can identify them as merc mission as ufos never appear crashed directly (or do they? :S). In any case if it is too unfeasible ignore this comment.

The crash site was the original idea but since I had the Mercenary transport as a map I just figured to use it and let players decide how to deal with those planes: let them land or shoot it down and destroy it (shooting them merely destroys them). Then I changed the first two missions into medium UFOs. Explaining how the mercs got first to the crash site... yeah I thought of giving an explanation but then I decide to leave it to the player to figure it out for himself :)

There is an item carried by one of the Mercs on the third mission that when researched reveals the existence of the base and that a VIP transport will be travelling soon to the base.

Quote
Lastly I will throw one crazy idea. Is it possible for the base assault mission to be set as a base alien on the map? I say this because I believe it could have the following benefits:

-It let's you replay the mission in case is unfinished (you don't kill all the people).
-The appearance of the mission could be triggered such as in the monthly reviews were the council indicates the position of an alien base (you could trigger it to  given month or to a given research, if such bizarre approach is feasible).

Of course as a side effect could mess the country were it's located inviting it to leave the xcom project (as what the tradition alien base does).

I bear in mind this last point could be pretty complex to make as I have little clue about the game modding (I am quite skilled programmer but I wouldn't know were to start on it). In any case is just to bring more thoughts on possibilities of implementing this mini-campaign.

In any case I will restart again the campaign and see how it goes with the latest versions  :D

This was my initial idea, I posted about it a few pages ago :)

The problem is how much hardcoded the missions currently are in OpenXCom. I can get the game to generate a base with Mercenaries present. But when the terrain is generated the engine would choose randomly between Area51 or Alien Base terrain, or no way to permanently assign a specific terrain to a specific base, which doesn't work. Plus, I could create a Merc Supply mission with its own 'UFO' but the game would also choose randomly between it or the vanilla Supply Ship, with no way to assign a Supply mission to a specific base.
 
Unless those issues are improved on OpenXCom, the current solution is the best one, although it can still be improved.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mariner on March 26, 2015, 12:51:48 am
Attempting to open the Omega Sniper Ufopaedia entry crashes the came on v0.3.8.

Running latest nightly of OXC.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 26, 2015, 01:11:05 am
Attempting to open the Omega Sniper Ufopaedia entry crashes the came on v0.3.8.

Running latest nightly of OXC.

Working without an issue at my end. What platform are you using?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 26, 2015, 02:24:37 am
Clean crash, no error message, in my first terror mission, just after one of the civilians was killed. I suspect a lack of/mismatched number of corpse bigob/floorob (most common error in that regard; although a more exotic cause is possible). Tried to check that myself, but got bogged down, your corpse numbering system isn't easily accessible :)

Afar from that... chased a few lights on the sky (Darkstar FTW) on 13th Jan finally caught up to... a Skyranger. After circling around the Europe for a better part of a night, then full day, then the whole evening, mysterious craft landed in Denmark (those insidious Danes!). Found MJ12 Mercenaries, they have no decency to land in the night-time like this, no decency at all.... They were rummagin an alien... crash/landing site? Who knows?
We tried to catch some of the mercs alive, one was stun-rodded to no effect, others died from their wounds or mysterious reasons, more on this later.
In the ensuing battle, we've lost 3 men - one in close quarters combat in a barn, normal stuff, one to friendly fire, normal stuff (he tried to attack a mercenary - who just killed his buddy - with his knife, missing 6 attacks out of 6, then took a bullet from a friend who was trying to save his stupid ass), one Russian female soldier when she bravely stormed UFO and put a full burst into Merc leader from point blank. He turned out to be extra-tenacious and killed her with his shotgun - only to immediately succumb to his wounds. He was alive yet never made it to our base - "Alien has died due to lack of Containment". Huh? And we also found an Alien Corpse, and even could take it onboard the Skyranger, looks like our scientists never managed to enforce "dead aliens aren't trophies" rule :)

Overall, the mission was fresh and interesting, with an air of mystery surrounding everything - great! I haven't also missed the World News - how do you plan on updating them?

My suggestions would be, in so far (until you repair the crash and I can go on - the Island Terror was immediately after said mission).:
- Less initial funding in exchange for a ready-to-use Containment from day 1. The only way to avoid "human dies due to lack of alien containment" madness imo. :)
-  No medi-kits? Not even bandages? I know I am just fat and used to luxury, but... :) Maybe - if you don't want to stray from vanilla scary feel too much - add bandages that heal Wounds but damage the patient slightly in the process?
- Maybe the Merc leader should have some papers/orders on him? It'd be a great way to push the plot forwards (and also give the player a chance of knowing what's next - without any hints, understanding what to do in the MJ12 base can be simply impossible...)

I haven't noticed those "superhuman" stats of the mercs, maybe they have, maybe they haven't, in practice the only stat you're bound to notice without fighting a hundred battles is armor, and they seem to go down to rifle fire easy enough - except for that damned leader, that is :)

EDIT: have checked their stats, 55-85 firing acc with average Reactions is hardly an overkill, they're supposed to be hardcore mercenaries hired by the f***ing MJ12. I think their stats are pretty well balanced, X-Com soldiers can get WAY better than that with enough experience.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 26, 2015, 02:31:07 am
Warning: I've been playtesting and I just had the previous OpenXcom bug with the wrong terrain on the Mercenary Base mission.

But I've now realized it isn't a bug but the result of the latest changes to missions. While previously the terrains listed on alienDeployments would override the ones listed on the textures, it now works the other way around. Until I can convince the developers to change this back to the previous configuration this means that the mercenary base can only be fully played on New Battle mode.

I've also encountered a vector range crash during a Terror Site, but after I reloaded from Geoscape I couldn't replicate the error. It happened with Expanded Urban and this terrain has worked without reported problems for a long time and I can't find anything wrong with my changes to terror missions, so I'm not sure it was related to the mod.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 26, 2015, 02:42:41 am
Clean crash, no error message, in my first terror mission, just after one of the civilians was killed. I suspect a lack of/mismatched number of corpse bigob/floorob (most common error in that regard; although a more exotic cause is possible). Tried to check that myself, but got bogged down, your corpse numbering system isn't easily accessible :)

I just had one of those crashes during a Terror Site, I reloaded and got the same terrain and completed the mission without any issues. I checked the corpses files but they are all as they should be, plus I've had a crash report when a Cyberdisc exploded. Something is clearly not right concerning unit deaths but I'm not sure where to look anymore.

Quote
Afar from that... chased a few lights on the sky (Darkstar FTW) on 13th Jan finally caught up to... a Skyranger. After circling around the Europe for a better part of a night, then full day, then the whole evening, mysterious craft landed in Denmark (those insidious Danes!). Found MJ12 Mercenaries, they have no decency to land in the night-time like this, no decency at all.... They were rummagin an alien... crash/landing site? Who knows?
We tried to catch some of the mercs alive, one was stun-rodded to no effect, others died from their wounds or mysterious reasons, more on this later.
In the ensuing battle, we've lost 3 men - one in close quarters combat in a barn, normal stuff, one to friendly fire, normal stuff (he tried to attack a mercenary - who just killed his buddy - with his knife, missing 6 attacks out of 6, then took a bullet from a friend who was trying to save his stupid ass), one Russian female soldier when she bravely stormed UFO and put a full burst into Merc leader from point blank. He turned out to be extra-tenacious and killed her with his shotgun - only to immediately succumb to his wounds. He was alive yet never made it to our base - "Alien has died due to lack of Containment". Huh? And we also found an Alien Corpse, and even could take it onboard the Skyranger, looks like our scientists never managed to enforce "dead aliens aren't trophies" rule :)

Overall, the mission was fresh and interesting, with an air of mystery surrounding everything - great! I haven't also missed the World News - how do you plan on updating them?

To me assaulting the Merc Skyranger is always a major pain since you have to charge the ramp in the open. Plus there's a LOF bug that allows you to see into the Skyranger if you approach from its right side.

The news are updated everytime you perform an alien autopsy or interrogation.

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My suggestions would be, in so far (until you repair the crash and I can go on - the Island Terror was immediately after said mission).:
- Less initial funding in exchange for a ready-to-use Containment from day 1. The only way to avoid "human dies due to lack of alien containment" madness imo. :)

Reasonable.

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-  No medi-kits? Not even bandages? I know I am just fat and used to luxury, but... :) Maybe - if you don't want to stray from vanilla scary feel too much - add bandages that heal Wounds but damage the patient slightly in the process?

Or you can always research Medi-kits from the beginning...

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- Maybe the Merc leader should have some papers/orders on him? It'd be a great way to push the plot forwards (and also give the player a chance of knowing what's next - without any hints, understanding what to do in the MJ12 base can be simply impossible...)

The mercenaries carry data disks on those missions that do exactly that :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mariner on March 26, 2015, 02:49:08 am
Working without an issue at my end. What platform are you using?
PC, but I really should have done a fresh install, as some other mods are disabled but installed. Will do so when I get a chance to go home again...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 26, 2015, 03:05:49 am
To me assaulting the Merc Skyranger is always a major pain since you have to charge the ramp in the open. Plus there's a LOF bug that allows you to see into the Skyranger if you approach from its right side.

Hehe, you can always lob a grenade or six in since there's no Power Source to worry about... but it wasn't a Skyranger - it was a Med Scout. If there was a Skyranger too on that map, I can't say - it was dark and I haven't explored all of it :)

Or you can always research Medi-kits from the beginning...

Alas we tried sir, but our 20 scientists didn't make it till 13 Jan :) To be frank though, I was so focused on catching lights on the sky (certainly much more so than normally, I didn't want to miss Mercs out and the Darkstar allows for reasonably accessible active recon) that first I didn't start research until Day 3, then let the 10 new arrivals sit idly for 3 or 4 days more :)

So - I guess I'll retry that Island Attack mission (I yearn for the idyllic TFTD islands... but looks like all I'll get is this nasty, run-down harbour :) ), then proceed with the campaign! Hope you'll manage to make the MJ12 base missions work...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 26, 2015, 03:35:10 am
Hehe, you can always lob a grenade or six in since there's no Power Source to worry about... but it wasn't a Skyranger - it was a Med Scout. If there was a Skyranger too on that map, I can't say - it was dark and I haven't explored all of it :)

Believe me, I've tried that. First you still need to approach the ramp and get shot, then you risk it hitting the tail of the Skyranger and blowing on your face. That ramp is simply evil... I started realizing that it offers a lot more protection that it seems.

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Alas we tried sir, but our 20 scientists didn't make it till 13 Jan :) To be frank though, I was so focused on catching lights on the sky (certainly much more so than normally, I didn't want to miss Mercs out and the Darkstar allows for reasonably accessible active recon) that first I didn't start research until Day 3, then let the 10 new arrivals sit idly for 3 or 4 days more :)

So - I guess I'll retry that Island Attack mission (I yearn for the idyllic TFTD islands... but looks like all I'll get is this nasty, run-down harbour :) ), then proceed with the campaign! Hope you'll manage to make the MJ12 base missions work...

I like the Darkstar a lot because it is a mobile radar and allows you to expand radar coverage quite easily.

Island terrain was going to be my next addition to the Terrain Pack after Area 51, so it shouldn't take long until you can land on beachy shores. Maybe you could create several bikini beach girls for it :)

I'm still unsure of how to fix this issue: I've already posted asking for terrains listed on alienDeployments overriding the ones listed on textures, which was the previous behavior, IIRC, since this happened due to the latest changes to missions and bug fixes. Otherwise I'll have to change this mission into a Terror Site, which will involve some major changes.

Ugh. This is not going to be easy to solve. I sincerely hope that the developers revert this change, otherwise I have major doubts that it is possible to have the mini-campaign as it is. Changing the mission into Terror brings a lot of other issues regarding mission generation that can't be completely fixed. :(
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 26, 2015, 07:44:35 am
Nvmd about the crash, I'm getting these with my mod as well. No message, nothing, just a clean exit during battlescape mission. Must be nightly.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 26, 2015, 12:02:14 pm
Ok I did today a fresh install of both the nightly and the mod.

The mercs seems goind smoothly now. Did the two first combats and went quite smooth. Nice touch the alien autopsy BTW.

Minor bug found is both the alien corpse and the mercenary base can be chosen within the equipment of a transport vehicle.

Now I had again the crash to desktop during a terror mission but now on the alien turn (they shoot a civilian).

As weird as it sounds, could be that the ciberdisc case was killing also the bugged civilian?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 26, 2015, 12:24:43 pm
Found the guy  ;D

The civilian on the picture is the one crashing the game. I shoot with the tank to make sure it was him. His death seems to trigger the bug. Have the save at this very moment if needed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 26, 2015, 07:45:19 pm
Minor bug found is both the alien corpse and the mercenary base can be chosen within the equipment of a transport vehicle.

Now I had again the crash to desktop during a terror mission but now on the alien turn (they shoot a civilian).

As weird as it sounds, could be that the ciberdisc case was killing also the bugged civilian?

Yeah, I've noticed the alien corpse/mercenary base item issue. I'll rename them but I'm not sure how to avoid them being loaded into the Skyranger. Renamed and fixed.

I've checked and the bug was indeed with that civilian. And yes, the crash was most likely provoked by the Cyberdisk killing that civilian type. This also explains a few crashes on the Port terrain that I couldn't trace.

EDIT: the issue with the Mercenary Base not being generated has been fixed with the latest nightly! Back in business! :D

Bugs fixed so far:
* Crashes when killing a specific civilian
* Alien Soldiers reappearing as research topics after research on them is completed
* Being able to load the Skyranger with Data Disks or Alien Corpses

I'm currently performing a test run of the Mercenary mini-campaign to see if everything is finally working as it should.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 27, 2015, 11:51:56 am
Edited at 16 PM GMT+1

Manage to play the base mission. Interesting play, the combat is quite sustainable in this kind of environment. The boxes on the sideroads helps to feel less naked (so nice thought). Despite there's some conflictive places for a shootout such as the assembly lab? (the one with the tables).

The scientist is easy to see but I expected something else and I shoot him (lucky me the first time he went down to sleep instead of dead). Afterwards seems quite complex not too shoot him by soldier eagerness during the enemy turn. Also she legs too much, the guy with the stun rod was unable to keep up with her pace XD.

Some stuff going weird:

-When you finish the omega sniper rifle research the games crashes on accessing the report (or cycling through pages of the ufopedia to this one).

-The another thing is some bushes on the base that are basically crash to desktop mines. I attach a picture of it.

-I can craft both omega weapons and improved HWP but didn't receive a notification of neither (I may not be an issue but just to inform).

Also I didn't got the armor from the base assault. One possibility could be that were too much explosions from the merc side (one fumble of a merc blew a complete floor of a small building with him inside). Despite I believe he blew some toilets only.

Then some more thoughts on the mod:

-As I see the word "Omega" is quite used within the whole mod, could be feasible to switch the word in the weapons name for the greek letter "Ω"? This may create shorter strings in the inventories and give more easiness to reading.

Omega Light machine gun -> Ω Light machine gun

- If you had thoughts on the aircraft armament. I may be reasonable to associate it to the current researches. My thoughts:

Omega weapons tech - Omega cannon
Combat armor - Omega stingray
Improved HWP - Omega avalanche

This could help balance the possibility of losing the thunderstorm or skipping the scientist (if the case I suppose you get stuck up to the plasma canon?). The case of the omega avalanche missile can be quite interesting as there is no middle option between the avalanche and the fusion cannon weapons.


Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 27, 2015, 04:46:00 pm
Manage to play the base mission. Interesting play, the combat is quite sustainable in this kind of environment. The boxes on the sideroads helps to feel less naked (so nice thought). Despite there's some conflictive places for a shootout such as the assembly lab? (the one with the tables).

Conflictive places for a shootout? Can you elaborate/illustrate?

Quote
The scientist is easy to see but I expected something else and I shoot him (lucky me the first time he went down to sleep instead of dead). Afterwards seems quite complex not too shoot him by soldier eagerness during the enemy turn.

I said it was easy to spot her, not that it would be easy to actually capture her :)

Quote
Some stuff going weird:

When you finish the omega sniper rifle research the games crashes on accessing the report.

Just tried this on my test game and I can research the Omega Sniper Rifle and access the report without problems. If you were running this on Linux I'd say that it isn't recognizing or finding the BIGOB_MJ12_SNIPER_RIFLE.GIF image or the equivalent for the Clip. Check to see if you have those files in /data/Resources/Redux/Items/BIGOBS.

Quote
The another thing is some bushes on the base that are basically crash to desktop mines. I attach a picture of it.

Fixed for 0.3.9 (already updated). Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 27, 2015, 05:53:02 pm
Just edited the previous post. You should see some changes.


Conflictive places for a shootout? Can you elaborate/illustrate?

Yes, I mean this building I attach on the images. The fences and grids give plenty of opportunity for enemy sighting but is extremely unfriendly to fire from inside. The block line of sight appears repeatedly and the override of such usually meet plenty obstacles to impact. As the weapon level doesn't destroy easily the cover, this makes it difficult for autofire weapons and extremely difficult for precision weapons (rifle, sniper rifle, heavy cannon,...). Also the windowing on the east is a little weird.

My though (if I am not mistaken and this is the HWP research facility) would be to do the crane into a "L" shape with two big doors so it will always face a road (in my case it doesn't) and many more windows to outside  in the first floor (or even an a line of them for the corner) to account for natural lighting. This would enable an "advantage point" between the building and outside for both mercs and xcom operatives.

The rest of the base is finely crafted BTW. Buildings, guard post and perimeters. The only thing I should say is unsettling is that there's plenty of toilets around XD.



I said it was easy to spot her, not that it would be easy to actually capture her :)

At least make her slower for easy pursuing XD. She runs faster than a trained soldier.


Just tried this on my test game and I can research the Omega Sniper Rifle and access the report without problems. If you were running this on Linux I'd say that it isn't recognizing or finding the BIGOB_MJ12_SNIPER_RIFLE.GIF image or the equivalent for the Clip. Check to see if you have those files in /data/Resources/Redux/Items/BIGOBS.


I'm running it on windows 8.1, with nightly 2015.03.26 18:45 and the 0.3.8 version of ufo redux. The picture is there and the file opens fine. In any case I'll update to the 0.3.9 and the nightly and see if the problem persists.

And nothing to give thanks for. I am enjoying the mod for the content and the amount of detail (even when it breaks) and I am quite eager to see it in its full potential :D.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on March 27, 2015, 06:00:43 pm
I gotta say, this mod looks so good.  I can't wait to see Neptune's PlayThrough. :)

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 27, 2015, 08:25:33 pm
-I can craft both omega weapons and improved HWP but didn't receive a notification of neither (I may not be an issue but just to inform).

I haven't gotten that far yet on my current test version, I'll check it out when it appears.

Quote
Also I didn't got the armor from the base assault. One possibility could be that were too much explosions from the merc side (one fumble of a merc blew a complete floor of a small building with him inside). Despite I believe he blew some toilets only.

Data Disks can only be found in 20x20 buildings. The reason why you didn't get Combat Armor is that there are 3 buildings with Data Disks and 1 with the complete Omega arsenal, but only 3 of those 4 will appear on the mission, chosen randomly.

Quote
Then some more thoughts on the mod:

-As I see the word "Omega" is quite used within the whole mod, could be feasible to switch the word in the weapons name for the greek letter "Ω"? This may create shorter strings in the inventories and give more easiness to reading.

Omega Light machine gun -> Ω Light machine gun

I agree that reducing the names would be better but to use Greek lettering looks graphically weird to me. An alternative way might be use a two letter designation, like HV (High Velocity) which was the original designation of those weapons on XOps' XenoOperations mod.

Quote
- If you had thoughts on the aircraft armament. I may be reasonable to associate it to the current researches. My thoughts:

Omega weapons tech - Omega cannon
Combat armor - Omega stingray
Improved HWP - Omega avalanche

This could help balance the possibility of losing the thunderstorm or skipping the scientist (if the case I suppose you get stuck up to the plasma canon?). The case of the omega avalanche missile can be quite interesting as there is no middle option between the avalanche and the fusion cannon weapons.

Very interesting. I hadn't considered craft armament until now and associating it with a tech makes sense. Or I can simply add another building to the base with a Data Disk containing Advanced Craft Weapons tech. The issue is to make each craft weapon unique. This would be a nice addition. 

Yes, I mean this building I attach on the images. The fences and grids give plenty of opportunity for enemy sighting but is extremely unfriendly to fire from inside. The block line of sight appears repeatedly and the override of such usually meet plenty obstacles to impact. As the weapon level doesn't destroy easily the cover, this makes it difficult for autofire weapons and extremely difficult for precision weapons (rifle, sniper rifle, heavy cannon,...). Also the windowing on the east is a little weird.

My though (if I am not mistaken and this is the HWP research facility) would be to do the crane into a "L" shape with two big doors so it will always face a road (in my case it doesn't) and many more windows to outside  in the first floor (or even an a line of them for the corner) to account for natural lighting. This would enable an "advantage point" between the building and outside for both mercs and xcom operatives.

Where would you place the tables on that L shape inner design? On the sides and creating two corridors towards the doors?

Quote
The rest of the base is finely crafted BTW. Buildings, guard post and perimeters. The only thing I should say is unsettling is that there's plenty of toilets around XD.

At a certain point I though there weren't enough toilets for a base that big so I made sure several buildings had them... lol

Quote
At least make her slower for easy pursuing XD. She runs faster than a trained soldier.

I've slowed her down a bit. I initially gave all the mercs a Stamina boost (90) since they would be patrolling a lot on the base, but I've reduced the Scientist's TU & Stamina. The issue here is also her AI setting, which is defined for cautious mode, so the AI will retreat and set ambushes more rather than attacking outright.

Quote
I'm running it on windows 8.1, with nightly 2015.03.26 18:45 and the 0.3.8 version of ufo redux. The picture is there and the file opens fine. In any case I'll update to the 0.3.9 and the nightly and see if the problem persists.

This is completely weird then, I'm running it on Windows 7 and can open every UFOPedia topic without issues.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 27, 2015, 11:30:54 pm
The military base is as beautiful as its deadly. Well, beautiful isn't the best word - it is ugly, but ugly in a good way! I like it a lot. About the only general issue I see is that the colors vary maybe too wildly between rooms and buildings. But this perhaps is just too vague and general to be any kind of advice, especially at this stage.

But I do have one suggestion - in buildings where there is a large opening in the floor, I'd suggest using different floor tiles on different levels (even if all the difference is a shade). In the picture below, there's no telling that Mr. Ratman is standing on a different level than the girl in the blue dress - which is the case.

Also, there are no light sources except these faint red warning lights. I think it wouldn't be bad if you added some - either by using tileset, or by embedding light-emitting, non-recoverable items into solid objects (the trick I have come up with for UFOs illumination).

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 28, 2015, 02:50:47 am
The military base is as beautiful as its deadly. Well, beautiful isn't the best word - it is ugly, but ugly in a good way! I like it a lot. About the only general issue I see is that the colors vary maybe too wildly between rooms and buildings. But this perhaps is just too vague and general to be any kind of advice, especially at this stage.

But I do have one suggestion - in buildings where there is a large opening in the floor, I'd suggest using different floor tiles on different levels (even if all the difference is a shade). In the picture below, there's no telling that Mr. Ratman is standing on a different level than the girl in the blue dress - which is the case.

Also, there are no light sources except these faint red warning lights. I think it wouldn't be bad if you added some - either by using tileset, or by embedding light-emitting, non-recoverable items into solid objects (the trick I have come up with for UFOs illumination).

The colors of the inner walls actually follow a pattern: grey walls are for service and manufacturing areas, reddish for offices and living areas, white for research and special areas. I can try some more color combinations although the palette is quite limited in range.

The ground tiles also follow a similar pattern: red goes with the red walls, then white, then the grey and rosy ones for the tech areas. I've noticed also that sometimes it can be confusing to distinguish between floors, so I've assigned different colors with the tech areas, although I missed that building on the pic you posted.

There is actually several outer light sources: the street lamps, the red warning lights and the aircraft beacons (on top of the buildings). As for the inner ones, I'll see about your suggestion and also there also some tiles that could be light emitters.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 28, 2015, 03:02:49 am
And an announcement: NeptuneNookGames is going to start in a few days a Let's Play of UFO Redux :D

More details on its specific thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3524.0.html)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 28, 2015, 08:57:16 am
Just had one amazing mission. :D

On turn 2 I discovered that the scientist was close to my LZ and by turn 4 I managed to capture her, losing only 1 soldier in the process. Then I got greedy (my downfall) and decided to look for more loot. Another soldier gets killed while clearing the North side but I spot no buildings with data disks on that area and I realize that those objective buildings are on the opposite corner of my LZ.

I split my squad into, two soldiers guarding the LZ and the stunned scientist, two slowly advancing toward a large bunker, and four and the HWP push directly to a laboratory. This push is going rather well and I advance half-way through, with my rocket HWP killing large numbers of mercs and laughing at their bullets. Then ran out of rockets the moment a merc carrying his own rocket launcher appears.

My soldiers hit the merc 5 freaking times with Rifles and LMG but he shrugged off the bullets, then proceeded to go kamikaze and blast my HWP in the process. That was the beginning of the end. The team advancing to the bunker tried to assault it but got killed and didn't even pass its front door. Meanwhile, turn 20 hits and the AI knows the location of all my units. I decide to retreat since I still had the scientist, I had no idea of how many mercs were still there and my squad was split in two.

The retreat became a massacre. Two mercs appeared out of nowhere (I'm still scratching my head at how one of them managed to slip past my soldiers) near my Skyranger and one of them kills the scientist's guard. Meanwhile, the distant soldiers were trying to retreat but they were low on energy so the mercs caught up with them and all those soldiers got killed, either by shots or grenades. And to top it off the scientist awakens the turn right after her guard is killed and manages to escape from the Skyranger while passing through my last soldier who has no stun rod...

After the mission I fixed a few stairs issues plus turned on the street lights, as Dioxine had previously noticed that it was a bit dark. Version 0.4.0 is available at the mod site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 29, 2015, 04:43:14 am
Version 0.4.1 uploaded (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux), with the map change suggested by Vesparco, plus more work on sprites and differentiating building height levels.

I also slightly reduced the number of mercenaries since the score is 2-1 for them, mainly due to mercs reaction firing rocket launchers. Here's an image of my last mission (a fail btw).

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/VRXOGKPO032820150940.png)

A couple of tips to those attempting this mission:
* Research Medikits and bring them.
* Don't bother with extra clips since there will be plenty of Omega WeaponsTM laying around. But bring extra grenades.
* Bring a HWP since its armor is almost impossible to be breached by bullets. The only Merc weapon that can kill it is their Rocket Launcher.
* Be ready for turn 20: all of the Mercs still alive at the base will start moving towards your location, and there is usually still a lot of them.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on March 29, 2015, 10:41:11 am
Hobbes wouldn't proxy mines be very useful in this kind of scenario?

Mine the entrances to were you are and get rid of enemy units this way?

And reactionfire everything else?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 29, 2015, 03:21:07 pm
Just published a path fix tn the ruleset plus a few tweaks as version 0.4.3 (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)

Last night I did a brainstorming based on my current experience with the Mercenary Base mission and what were my expectations while designing it. I've got some ideas of how to improve it, and also some new ideas for new missions in large maps, but I'd also like to hear some feedback about your experiences with the Merc Base.

Hobbes wouldn't proxy mines be very useful in this kind of scenario?

Mine the entrances to were you are and get rid of enemy units this way?

And reactionfire everything else?

Yeah, I've been using prox mines a lot, specially to guard doors but I ran out of them quite easily. Grenades are extremely useful in this mission, period, since shooting is often blocked by obstacles that can be destroyed by bullets.

I don't use much reaction fire on my tactics. I'd rather rush and try to kill all units in sight rather than to try to set ambushes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 30, 2015, 08:54:38 am
And version 0.4.4 uploaded (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux), containing small bug fixes related to terrain, specially making it more easy to fire (and be fired at) behind windows.

I'm considering some major changes to the next version since I've been testing a smaller version (80x80) of the base, with roughly 50% of the mercs, more roads and no perimeter fences. I've been enjoying this version since it's slightly easier to control map areas, even after turn 20.

I really like the perimeter fences though, so the current version of the merc base will be retained and used the latter game, hopefully being generated when the Avenger is available so that you can bring 26 units and then the fight will be more even. I'm also designing an 'Escape' mission, where the exit area is at the other end of the map.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 30, 2015, 05:28:10 pm
Hi there,

I've reinstalled the game again with the current nightly and the 0.4.4 of the mod.

I don't know why but I have the same issue with the sniper rifle, moreover it seems to crash if it is in inventory for equipping on soldiers (I suppose it is something about the image).

It also happens on a new game in debug mode. Could it be issue of the last nightly or any configuration in graphics? (just to see if we can nail the issue, which I believe it is from outside the mod).

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 30, 2015, 05:50:16 pm
Hi there,

I've reinstalled the game again with the current nightly and the 0.4.4 of the mod.

I don't know why but I have the same issue with the sniper rifle, moreover it seems to crash if it is in inventory for equipping on soldiers (I suppose it is something about the image).

It also happens on a new game in debug mode. Could it be issue of the last nightly or any configuration in graphics? (just to see if we can nail the issue, which I believe it is from outside the mod).

Hello again.

The issue is with the BIGOBS image of the Sniper Rifle, which is used both on the UFOPedia and Inventory screens. The engine knows that the file exist (otherwise the ruleset wouldn't load) but it crashes when it tries to display it.

I'd actually suggest you try the Xeno Operations (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2913.0.html) mod, which the original mod from which the Omega weapons images were taken and see if you can visualize its HV Sniper Rifle. Just install the mod, start a new campaign and hit CTRL+ D, which will unlock all UFOPedia subjects.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 30, 2015, 11:08:21 pm
I pulled down the 3/26 nightly and your mod (for the first time).  I then tried to use the battle generator to set a battle on the "mercenary base' with mercenaries, and the game crashed right as the battlescape showed the Skyranger to start the mission.  I think I had every mod turned off except yours, statstrings, and improved handobs.  I don't know what the crash errors was.  Is there a place I should look?

In comparison, I later added the Final Mod Pack and turned yours off and was able to generate battles just fine with FMP installed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 30, 2015, 11:22:19 pm
I pulled down the 3/26 nightly and your mod (for the first time).  I then tried to use the battle generator to set a battle on the "mercenary base' with mercenaries, and the game crashed right as the battlescape showed the Skyranger to start the mission.  I think I had every mod turned off except yours, statstrings, and improved handobs.  I don't know what the crash errors was.  Is there a place I should look?

In comparison, I later added the Final Mod Pack and turned yours off and was able to generate battles just fine with FMP installed.

If you were able to see the Skyranger then the most likely issue for the crash is an item that could not be displayed. You can also turn off improved handobs since they are included on this mod, but I don't think that is causing the issue.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 31, 2015, 12:13:40 am
If you were able to see the Skyranger then the most likely issue for the crash is an item that could not be displayed. You can also turn off improved handobs since they are included on this mod, but I don't think that is causing the issue.

Okay, I'll try again later tonight and see if I can figure it out.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 31, 2015, 11:16:25 am
Hello again.

The issue is with the BIGOBS image of the Sniper Rifle, which is used both on the UFOPedia and Inventory screens. The engine knows that the file exist (otherwise the ruleset wouldn't load) but it crashes when it tries to display it.

I'd actually suggest you try the Xeno Operations (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2913.0.html) mod, which the original mod from which the Omega weapons images were taken and see if you can visualize its HV Sniper Rifle. Just install the mod, start a new campaign and hit CTRL+ D, which will unlock all UFOPedia subjects.

Tried the solution and xeno operations works properly. Weird enough after trying, I deactivated xeno ops and executed ufo redux and now the pages appears correctly. I will assume that my computer is messed up but If the case repeats on others, it may be a dependency or some misdirection of the game for the picture.

In any case I will keep up with the rest of the testing. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 31, 2015, 04:08:15 pm
Tried the solution and xeno operations works properly. Weird enough after trying, I deactivated xeno ops and executed ufo redux and now the pages appears correctly. I will assume that my computer is messed up but If the case repeats on others, it may be a dependency or some misdirection of the game for the picture.

In any case I will keep up with the rest of the testing. :)

Just made a fresh install of Redux on the latest nightly and I had precisely the same bug with the Omega Sniper Rifle. I switched to my Redux_Test ruleset and the Sniper Rifle started working again without crashes. I switched back to the release Redux ruleset and the issue disappeared.

There's definitely something wrong here but it doesn't look related to Redux since I've checked the ruleset and the files over and over.

For the time being, if anyone else has this problem, try loading a different ruleset then reloading UFO Redux, since that seems to fix it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 31, 2015, 07:37:45 pm
I wonder if I'm running into the same issue with generating the Mercenary Base.   I turned all I could turn off, and it still crashes.  However, I did try another mission, and it loaded fine.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 31, 2015, 07:57:21 pm
I wonder if I'm running into the same issue with generating the Mercenary Base.   I turned all I could turn off, and it still crashes.  However, I did try another mission, and it loaded fine.

It's likely. My suspicion at the moment is that there's a map causing the issue, since these crashes are also happening with the Area51 version of the Terrain Pack, although I can't figure out which one.

EDIT: Just tried Mercenary Base on New Battle 30 times in a row, without any crashes, and verified that all the maps are being used, so the issue isn't there. I'm suspecting if this isn't related to the Omega Sniper Rifle issue, since the crashes are similar.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on March 31, 2015, 08:21:23 pm
So far I've encountered crashes in:
- Commercial
- Railyard
- Savanna Mount, Desert Mount

Maybe some nodes are put into solid objects or otherwise the current AI cannot navigate them for some reason... Also my observation is that these crashes are happening strictly during the Patrolling behaviour. This is my current theory.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on March 31, 2015, 08:40:07 pm
So far I've encountered crashes in:
- Commercial
- Railyard
- Savanna Mount, Desert Mount

Maybe some nodes are put into solid objects or otherwise the current AI cannot navigate them for some reason... Also my observation is that these crashes are happening strictly during the Patrolling behaviour. This is my current theory.

These crashes we were discussing on the previous posts are different: they happen when the battlescape is being generated, not during the AI turn.

The crashes you describe during patrolling could be for several reasons, but blocked nodes are usually OK, since the AI picks a free node instead. One theory I've got is that all of these crashes are connected, including the one with the Sniper Rifle, since they are usually CTDs without messages, and crashes happening during AI patrolling could well happen with the engine trying to access a weapons sound file and not being able to do so.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Vesparco on March 31, 2015, 11:59:24 pm
I confirm two more crashes during enemy turn. First one on a sectoid walking into the railway of the "train map" and also another sectoid when walking under a tower in that map (there aren't anything noticeable on the floor to associate this one).

Another one sadly is the death of a muton leader that also crashes to desktop. It was a huge moral breaker after finally seeing the guy in red  :'(

If possible, we can have access to the technology evolution? (in case you have some document resuming the progress). I may be experiencing issues with that (at least the news report have been halted somehow).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on April 01, 2015, 12:04:28 am
The crashes you describe during patrolling could be for several reasons, but blocked nodes are usually OK, since the AI picks a free node instead. One theory I've got is that all of these crashes are connected, including the one with the Sniper Rifle, since they are usually CTDs without messages, and crashes happening during AI patrolling could well happen with the engine trying to access a weapons sound file and not being able to do so.

Hmm, yes, they're a tell-tale sign of missing files, but not weapon sound files - this has been checked and rechecked... Maybe unexisting walking sounds? The crashes are occuring immediately when the AI finishes with one unit and goes to the next one.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 01, 2015, 01:09:40 am
I confirm two more crashes during enemy turn. First one on a sectoid walking into the railway of the "train map" and also another sectoid when walking under a tower in that map (there aren't anything noticeable on the floor to associate this one).

Another one sadly is the death of a muton leader that also crashes to desktop. It was a huge moral breaker after finally seeing the guy in red  :'(

If possible, we can have access to the technology evolution? (in case you have some document resuming the progress). I may be experiencing issues with that (at least the news report have been halted somehow).

On Sectoid situation a save game really helps to check if the route nodes are OK.

The Muton was a wrong reference to a corpse, I've fixed it.

Check the first posts of this thread for an explanation of the changes to the research tree. The News reports can be unlocked through autopsies, interrogations or researching key technologies.

Hmm, yes, they're a tell-tale sign of missing files, but not weapon sound files - this has been checked and rechecked... Maybe unexisting walking sounds? The crashes are occuring immediately when the AI finishes with one unit and goes to the next one.

It's possible to be a wrong walking sound, if you add a value outside the range, otherwise you'll get the 'bullet and other weird sounds while moving'. I've been keeping a close eye to those settings since I had a crash due to it.

But when I meant missing files, I was thinking of the Sniper Rifle bug mentioned previously. One moment the game crashes because the UFOPedia can't display the image, even though everything is in order. Then you switch to another ruleset and back, and you can now access the its UFOPedia entry without any problem. There's something really strange about that bug.

Well, I'm getting the next version ready and at this stage I'll simply disable the worst terrains concerning crashes during tactical missions, namely Railyard and Commercial, which seem to be the worst offenders. When I have time I'll do a complete rework of them.

EDIT: there's something bizarre with loading rulesets. Had the Sniper Rifle bug again, loaded another ruleset, and when I reloaded Redux, the bug was gone. Then when I'm about to playtest the Merc Base, another crash, did the same load another ruleset/reload Redux, and everything is working fine again.

Today I managed to clear the base of all mercs for the first time, at turn 26. Which resulted in a considerable amount of looted weapons, since the Armory building was present, containing 1 copy of every Omega firearm, which unlocks manufacturing them or their clips. Plus Laser Weapons from the captured Scientist and the Thunderstorm and Improved HWPs from data disks. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 02, 2015, 12:48:31 am
I've almost finished the new design for the mercenary base (renamed 'Omega Facility') but I'm still adjusting the merc numbers. On the last mission I managed to kill around 2/3s of the mercs before turn 20 (out of a total of 36), which made things a lot easier and cost me only 1 soldier. The current version has almost the double of mercs (~60) so I'll try halfway between both numbers.

I'm trying also to get all the research notices to work properly but the research system is simply a pain to figure out. Some things work, others don't. The next version should also have a reduction of research costs to 150% of vanilla (current value is 200% vanilla).

Customized mission briefings aren't yet completely implemented (although music and background color are), but I've already added a lot of relevant info about the scientist mission on the corresponding UFOPedia entry concerning the VIP transport, to give advance warning.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 02, 2015, 11:25:25 pm
Version 0.4.5 uploaded (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux) to the Mod Site

There are some bugs that I haven't been able to figure out yet, namely the Omega Sniper Rifle's UFOPedia entry crashing the game, and an occasional CTD when the Merc Base mission is generated. The solution for both is to uncheck the ruleset, load a different one then switch back to Redux (and save before going tactical on Merc missions).

List of changes:
* More bug fixes to terrain and tweaks to MCD settings and sprites.
* Research cost reduced from 200% to 150% of vanilla.
* 8 new maps for Area 51. Replaced Merc Base with Omega Facility. This terrain is smaller (80x80) than the Base and has all the perimeter fences and 20x20 military buildings removed since it is more of a civilian installation. Also, it has two roads with opposite directions, with the crossroad, instead of the semi-fixed roads of Merc Base. Number of techs available and mission are still the same as before, and around 2/3 of hostile units. 
* Merc Base terrain reused and renamed as the Omega Headquarters. Started overhauling of the mid to late game MJ12 mission.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: jgatkinsn on April 03, 2015, 09:32:29 pm
I just tried the battle generator on Omega Headquarters and mercenaries.  No crashes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 04, 2015, 04:39:45 am
I just tried the battle generator on Omega Headquarters and mercenaries.  No crashes.

With the help of Warboy, we figured out the reason for the crashes, which is a single map block causing this issue. You'll never get the crash on Omega HQ, but you can get it on the Transport Plane mission if the map gets placed in one of the Battlescape edges. I'm going to post a temporary fix for this soon, by removing the offending map until I can get it to work properly.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on April 04, 2015, 04:41:25 am
Are any of the fixes needed in the terrain pack too?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 04, 2015, 07:31:32 am
Version 0.4.6 uploaded to the mod site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux).

It contains the fix for theh bugged map that was causing the crashes on the VIP Transport mission. Big thank you to Warboy for his help with this issue.

 I've also removed the Commercial and Railyard terrains from Terror Sites due to several bug reports, and to prevent more frustration I decided to work later on those with more time available than now.

I've also updated to the latest nightly and added a custom mission briefing for VIP Transport mission. See pic attached. 

Are any of the fixes needed in the terrain pack too?

Yes. I've already updated a new version of the Terrain Pack.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 07, 2015, 04:00:13 am
I got version 0.4.7 ready but I think I've spotted an OXC bug with Mission Briefings so I won't upload it yet.

It will mainly contain Research Tree fixes (you'll get the 'We Can Now Research' messages), decreased Manufacturing costs (forgot to reduce those when I reduced Research's) and a couple more customized mission briefings, and changes to the frequency and alienDeployment of later MJ12 missions.

My goal now is to complete the overhaul of the later MJ12 appearances. I'm still deciding which terrains I'll use since I want to introduce some new ones (except for the Omega Headquarters, which is already designed).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 07, 2015, 03:30:16 pm
Apologies to Warboy1982 for not paying attention to his messages about the briefing changes.

Version 0.4.7 is now uploaded. Enjoy.

Meanwhile, I'm studying the overhaul of the 2nd MJ12 mission (1st being the Mercenary mini-campaign). It will be similar to the opening mini-campaign but this time I can only happen in 2 or 3 regions (so you'll need to expand your radar coverage to detect it), which means that it has a very low chance of appearing on the 2nd month, but this will increase as months go by.

As for rewards, it will allow unlocking of Laser Weapons, if you retrieve one of the lasers carried by the MJ12 Agents. It will also offer an opportunity to unlock at least Plasma Weapons and possibly Advanced Alien Tech (required for Firestorm, Hyperwave Decoder and other stuff), either by capturing another scientist or recovering a data disk on the last mission.

The mission structure will be similar, with around 4 missions:
* First mission is the encounter with the Agents. Right now I'm considering using an adaptation of the Sunken Plane terrain for TFTD, but I need to ensure that their plane never lands (so that you have to shoot it down).
* Second mission might be recovery of advanced weapons or armor or Laser tech. Really haven't made my mind if I should include it or not, the appeal to it right now is that I'm thinking of making a terrain that combines both TFTD's Port and Cargo Ship.
* Third mission will be an Escape mission. You'll start already with a data disk in your possession and you'll need to fight your wait to the evacuation zone. I've got two terrains from UFO2000 that would fit this mission that I haven't converted to OXC yet, one is Slums and the other is Complex, which is basically a huge factory using Area51's tiles.
* Fourth mission is the Omega Headquarters, where the goal is to recover the Plasma Weapons, etc. and head back to the Skyranger. The intention is to use the old Mercenary Base for this map, although I might add some modifications since several buildings have been already used at the Research Facility.

The MJ12 Agents will have itemLevels, starting with Lasers, a mix of Laser/Plasma and then Plasma Weapons. Their armor will also be upgraded as the months go by and they'll have their own HWPs.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on April 08, 2015, 08:53:58 am
Very very impressive  ...

 :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on April 08, 2015, 12:36:55 pm
An other scenarious could be the terrain Normandy:
xcom land on beach and attack the bunker to recover something

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2934.0;attach=10919)

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2934.msg31987.html#msg31987 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2934.msg31987.html#msg31987)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on April 08, 2015, 02:00:37 pm
This looks like a pretty nice terrain. I really would like to give it a try in a Terrormission or so.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 08, 2015, 09:39:44 pm
An other scenarious could be the terrain Normandy:
xcom land on beach and attack the bunker to recover something

Weren't you going to use this on the WW2 Total Conversion that you are developing? ;)

This terrain has some nice graphics (I took the barbed wire and sandbags for Area51) but it is a preset map design, plus I can't think right now of a mission to use it. Plus the whole point of using a Skyranger/helicopter during amphibious assaults is precisely to avoid the beach defenses.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on April 08, 2015, 11:22:18 pm
Weren't you going to use this on the WW2 Total Conversion that you are developing? ;)

WW2 total conversion it is not mine project

,some time a go I wish an Hybrid game XCom-TFTD and I experiment on convert battlescape palette ...
but Falko and Volutar do it better ... :-[

After that I  worked on a new terrain generation that I used to  get the previous screenshots 
but I go long and Warboy release a new version no retrocompatible but with more power

Now I condivide ideas, some good  ::) and some silly  :-[,

but always with a lot of enthusiasm about openxcom community ;D


Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 08, 2015, 11:46:39 pm
WW2 total conversion it is not mine project

I was just teasing you, I didn't even knew there was a WW2 project :)

Quote
,some time a go I wish an Hybrid game XCom-TFTD and I experiment on convert battlescape palette ...
but Falko and Volutar do it better ... :-[

After that I  worked on a new terrain generation that I used to  get the previous screenshots 
but I go long and Warboy release a new version no retrocompatible but with more power

Now I condivide ideas, some good  ::) and some silly  :-[,

but always with a lot of enthusiasm about openxcom community ;D

Many times the best ideas were first thought to be silly or stupid. Your idea of reusing Crashed Plane terrain from TFTD was a good one, since it will be a nice addition to the MJ12 campaign. Although I'm actually be using the crashed plane as a 'ufo' map, so that it can be used on other terrains rather than desert. I won't add it to the Terrain Pack yet, but part of it will be making an appearance.

I've given up on the idea of a Hybrid game, but there is so many material available on TFTD that I've decided to use as much as possible.

Looking again at it, Normandy would be a nice idea for the 1st part of a special base mission. *thinking*
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on April 09, 2015, 12:33:58 am
Hybrid scenarious loose importance because terrains and races are converting by modders

Port, Mu, Atlantis, plane crash, and in the next I hope  that island, sub laboratory, cruise
will be exposed by mod

As last option,
wiith tool to converter palette,
Sub-Ufo and Sub alien base could be converted too.


Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 10, 2015, 05:22:54 am
Version 0.4.8 uploaded (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux), essentially minor fixes for maps and a missing string. Also added the Alien Containment to the starting base and reduced money accordingly as suggested by Dioxine a while ago.

Just reach mid April on playtesting with the latest versions and only got Personal Armor deployed at this point. I'm trying to finish Elerium research to update the lasers, which means that my 3rd terror site popped up and I have only Omega weaponry to deal with it. Shouldn't be an issue, but
even at 150% both Research and Manufacturing can be very slow. 10 KIAs so far, with 6 on a single mission.

Meanwhile, NeptuneNookGames has encountered some rougher moments on his current Let's Play series (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3524.0.html) of Redux, which I'd invite everyone to watch :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 16, 2015, 09:30:01 pm
Version 0.4.9 uploaded (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)

Map fixes for Port/Dawn City
Fixed bug with Improved HWPs
Fixed bug with News Briefs not appearing anymore
Removed Floater Medic
Changed stats for MJ12 Plasma weapons to make them more distinguishable from the alien versions
Added scientist to the last tier of MJ12 races
Reduced power back to original of improved laser weapons
Changes to Cultist missions
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 16, 2015, 10:46:18 pm
Trying to download v 0.4.9 as I'm about to start a new playthrough and redux sounds excellent. Was able to download up to and incl 0.4.8 no problem but every time I try 0.4.9 it comes up "THERE WAS AN ERROR. The page you requested was not found. Please try again. [DISABLED TEMPORARY PAGE]." I could work with 0.4.8 but wud prefer the latest version, it might be my computer acting up as I've seen that there has been 2 downloads so far. On the other hand wud it be possible for you to directly attach v 0.4.9 on an email as I've no idea what's going on here, many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 16, 2015, 11:01:29 pm
Trying to download v 0.4.9 as I'm about to start a new playthrough and redux sounds excellent. Was able to download up to and incl 0.4.8 no problem but every time I try 0.4.9 it comes up "THERE WAS AN ERROR. The page you requested was not found. Please try again. [DISABLED TEMPORARY PAGE]." I could work with 0.4.8 but wud prefer the latest version, it might be my computer acting up as I've seen that there has been 2 downloads so far. On the other hand wud it be possible for you to directly attach v 0.4.9 on an email as I've no idea what's going on here, many thanks in advance.

Yeah, the file appeared on the mod site with 0 Kb, so something went wrong during the upload. I've reuploaded it and it seems to be working now.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 16, 2015, 11:19:04 pm
Ta that downloaded fine. Just one further point, if I were to start a playthrough with v 0.4.9 and the latest nightly (2015-04-16 0100) if redux is further updated to v 0.5 and beyond is it just a simple matter to overwrite any of the files with the newer ones and thus be able to continue with the same playthrough rather than starting a new game?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 16, 2015, 11:34:16 pm
Ta that downloaded fine. Just one further point, if I were to start a playthrough with v 0.4.9 and the latest nightly (2015-04-16 0100) if redux is further updated to v 0.5 and beyond is it just a simple matter to overwrite any of the files with the newer ones and thus be able to continue with the same playthrough rather than starting a new game?

Usually it is possible to continue a previous save, but it really depends on what is changed between versions, specially alienMissions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 17, 2015, 12:35:53 am
Thanks for the info, I suppose I cud back up the data folder if any newer version of redux crashes an old save.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 17, 2015, 01:42:53 am
Thanks for the info, I suppose I cud back up the data folder if any newer version of redux crashes an old save.

The last update could cause you some issues with any Cultist missions but it's easy to edit the save to fix it. Let me know if you have any issues and thanks :)

Edit: version 0.5 uploaded, essentially customizing the reappearance of the Mercenaries after the first month.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on April 17, 2015, 12:42:13 pm
So I've been testing this out a bit more. Got through a brutal terror at the end of month (thank you for the incendiary grenades - they saved my ass, as I came underprepared, you can't really fight Cyberdiscs with firearms :) ), but that was my own fault.
Then came the Merc Base. Failed to catch their Skyranger, had to reload to catch it - I wonder what would've happened if I missed it... Really a lot in this mod seems to be based on luck, but hard to say if it's just a feeling - which would be good, tension is good - or is it true.
The Merc Base. Man this mission is hardcore, and I don't know if it's bad or good. The problem is, you *have to* finish it or it's basically gg, go home, as far as I understand, since it's the only way to get laser/plasma. One thing is sure, multiple tries are rather required to learn how to deal with this mission. So, mixed feelings here.
One thing I didn't like was changing "Omega" to "OW", it's just bland and uniteresting now, Omega sounded cool. I've actually changed the strings back to "Omega Assault Rifle" and so forth. The Omega weapons are one of the cool things that drew me into this tale.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 17, 2015, 02:01:07 pm
So I've been testing this out a bit more. Got through a brutal terror at the end of month (thank you for the incendiary grenades - they saved my ass, as I came underprepared, you can't really fight Cyberdiscs with firearms :) ), but that was my own fault.
Then came the Merc Base. Failed to catch their Skyranger, had to reload to catch it - I wonder what would've happened if I missed it... Really a lot in this mod seems to be based on luck, but hard to say if it's just a feeling - which would be good, tension is good - or is it true.
The Merc Base. Man this mission is hardcore, and I don't know if it's bad or good. The problem is, you *have to* finish it or it's basically gg, go home, as far as I understand, since it's the only way to get laser/plasma. One thing is sure, multiple tries are rather required to learn how to deal with this mission. So, mixed feelings here.

Yes and no. NeptunesNookGames missed the initial Merc Base on his current Let's Play and it is turning into a very interesting game. There are actually several ways to get lasers/plasma:
1) The initial Merc Base (aka Research Facility). This mission always happens on the 1st month. It can be tricky to spot the 1st and 2nd transport planes (that's another use for the Darkstar), but the last mission (the base one) is now easier to detect. Capturing and interrogating the scientist unlocks Laser Weapons.
2) The Omega HQ mission. This mission is assigned only to 3 regions, so the chances of it being generated are low but possible, and they increase as each month goes by. If you recover and research any of the lasers carried by the Omega agents you'll unlock Laser Weapons. And if you capture the scientist on the last transport plane, you'll unlock research on the Omega Plasma Gun, then the Plasma Carbine and the Plasma Blaster.
3) Harvesters/Abductors/Battleships on Alien Harvest/Abductions/Infiltration missions. Each of these UFOs carry a single Alien Scientist. Capturing and interrogating it unlocks Advanced Alien Tech, which then makes it possible to research plasma weapons as well as several other advanced topics.

On the current Let's Play, NeptunesNookGames got a break since the Omega HQ mission just got generated on the 4th month but I suspect it will be a very tough mission. On my current campaign I just finished this mission with power suits and lasers by killing all the Omega agents but I failed to capture the scientist since one of my soldiers shot her by accident.

It is also possible to get Power Suit if you capture an Engineer (which unlocks UFO Power Source) and complete research on Elerium and Personal Armor, which tremendously helps with dealing with the aliens with only conventional weapons.
Quote
One thing I didn't like was changing "Omega" to "OW", it's just bland and uniteresting now, Omega sounded cool. I've actually changed the strings back to "Omega Assault Rifle" and so forth. The Omega weapons are one of the cool things that drew me into this tale.

I agree. I might revert back to the older names.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on April 17, 2015, 04:16:24 pm
Getting a crash when done researching Omega Sniper Rifle and clicking View Reports (even with your latest mod version)... I remember other people had trouble with this as well?

Oh and researching Omega clips separately seems to serve no real purpose.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 17, 2015, 04:43:25 pm
Getting a crash when done researching Omega Sniper Rifle and clicking View Reports (even with your latest mod version)... I remember other people had trouble with this as well?

Oh and researching Omega clips separately seems to serve no real purpose.

Yup with the Sniper Rifle. Just uncheck the UFO Redux ruleset, choose and load another ruleset, and then switch back to Redux. This seems to solve it.

I don't recall exactly why I had research necessary also for the clips, but if there isn't a reason I'll remove the requirement. At this moment I want to streamline the mod as much as possible.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on April 17, 2015, 05:01:15 pm
Hmm these crashes might be caused by your sprite numbers exceeding 1000 :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 17, 2015, 05:26:21 pm
Hmm these crashes might be caused by your sprite numbers exceeding 1000 :)

I have noticed a warning about it on Falko's online checker but I've never figured out why this is an issue and what might be the consequences. In any case it is weird that only one weapon is affected even though all of them have sprite numbers over 1000.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on April 18, 2015, 09:05:03 am
Yup with the Sniper Rifle. Just uncheck the UFO Redux ruleset, choose and load another ruleset, and then switch back to Redux. This seems to solve it.

Well it ain't :) At least not on this machine. I'll try some more magick when I have the time :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 18, 2015, 04:06:41 pm
Just starting my playthrough of redux and when I checked via debug I noticed a couple of odd things, version 0.5. Firstly the improved heavy laser is damage type "unknown" in the ufopaedia and secondly the OW small pistol has a 0% accuracy for a snap shot. Are these glitches?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on April 18, 2015, 05:17:16 pm
Got a unknown CTD on Geoscape, using v0.5.  I think I was just about to get a mission.
Latest nightly/Win7 user etc.
BTW, really luv your work on this mod, keep up the awesome work. :)
Greets from Virginia, USA
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 18, 2015, 07:01:50 pm
Just starting my playthrough of redux and when I checked via debug I noticed a couple of odd things, version 0.5. Firstly the improved heavy laser is damage type "unknown" in the ufopaedia and secondly the OW small pistol has a 0% accuracy for a snap shot. Are these glitches?

Yup, fixed both, thanks.

Got a unknown CTD on Geoscape, using v0.5.  I think I was just about to get a mission.
Latest nightly/Win7 user etc.
BTW, really luv your work on this mod, keep up the awesome work. :)
Greets from Virginia, USA

This is most likely related to the latest mission changes. Can you post a save?

Thanks for the message and greetings from Portugal :)

EDIT - there is a bug with Port Modified terrain that can cause crashes, but I haven't found the cause of it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on April 19, 2015, 01:55:22 am
I should have mentioned earlier that its May in Xcom time, and I switched back to 0.4.9 to see if that helped, but unfortunately it didn't.
I am also heavily modded, but nothing that has been a problem in the past.
I hope this 7z helps, cause I really need to get back to saving the world. :)


Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 19, 2015, 02:17:38 am
I should have mentioned earlier that its May in Xcom time, and I switched back to 0.4.9 to see if that helped, but unfortunately it didn't.
I am also heavily modded, but nothing that has been a problem in the past.
I hope this 7z helps, cause I really need to get back to saving the world. :)

With so many additional mods it's really impossible to tell what might be the cause. When did the crash occur?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 19, 2015, 02:45:21 am
A wild guess on my part wud be a conflict between "alien armoury expanded" and "ufo redux" mods as redux only has 3 alien item levels but the other mod has 4. This cud be causing the crashes especially @ the start of a mission. Try removing "alien armoury expanded", however I'm no expert but this has happened to me b4.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on April 19, 2015, 03:54:55 am
Yeah, even with all mods off (except for some XcomUtil/UFOextender) I still get the CTD.
I'm in Geoscape and I think I'm about to get a UFO Detected report.
Other than that I really have no clue.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on April 19, 2015, 04:03:30 am
BTW, would OpenXcom Extended  by Yankes be compatible?
I like the idea of the training facility and am hoping someone will make a
hospital/sick bay building required to heal soldiers.
Cheers from Virginia :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 19, 2015, 04:31:30 am
I'm not sure as in my current game of redux that I've just started, I originally tried to use openxcom extended v1.7 along with the mod u have mentioned but it kept crashing or during the hidden movement phase of a mission it wud not proceed to my next turn, perhaps somebody with more know how than me can give u a better answer. It's a pity tho as I designed an acid bomb mod that will only work thru openxcom extended.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 19, 2015, 04:44:05 am
Yeah, even with all mods off (except for some XcomUtil/UFOextender) I still get the CTD.
I'm in Geoscape and I think I'm about to get a UFO Detected report.
Other than that I really have no clue.

Try the ruleset attached below with that save.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on April 19, 2015, 05:29:50 am
Worked like a charm, my friend ;D
Got a battleship on its way to try to take out my main base.
Silly Aliens, don't they know they will surely be defeated.
Thanks Hobbes, that was very quick work.
Cheers from Virginia.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Yankes on April 19, 2015, 01:11:59 pm
BTW, would OpenXcom Extended  by Yankes be compatible?
It should, if not this would be bug on my side. Except some deliberate mechanic changes and new ruleset options it should work like normal version.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on April 20, 2015, 03:48:11 am
Holy Crap!!!
Just ran into my first mission with Muton Elite and Armored Sectopods. :o
They have wiped out half my laser armed squad and its only turn 5.
I don't know if I'm going to win this one or not.
No bugs so far and I am enjoying the hell out of this mod :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 21, 2015, 02:26:35 pm
Just encountered a weird crash in my current playthrough of redux, as soon as the clock goes to 9pm on 11/02/99 the game crashes to the desktop without any error message. I'm not sure what's going on here, my wild guess is something to do with either live cultists, cultist corspes, mercenary corpses, an "alien corspe" (worth $10,00) or OW/CULT weaponry but on test2 save I had sold all corspes, weaponry and got rid of mercenary/cultist prisoners to no joy. I was really enjoying this mod so please advise. Attached are test1 save before I sold anything/got rid of any prisoners, test 2 save, options.cfg and the openxcom log. Thanks in advance.

ps I even tried deleting the options.cfg and reloading but that didn't help either.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 21, 2015, 03:01:52 pm
As a last ditch effort I tried to use the ruleset u sent @ 0444 19/04/15 for another player having probs and wud u believe it, I get by 9pm. Still unsure what was causing the crash but will let u know if I encounter any further probs.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ridаn on April 21, 2015, 03:12:18 pm
Have you tried disabling all other mods? Because, seriously, thats a lot of mods.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 21, 2015, 03:31:16 pm
Not yet as the ruleset file I mentioned in my last post seems to have done the trick. I've cut down on the amount of mods I now use in any game compared to what I used to use. 30-40 incl those that come with the nightly seems 2b the norm for me, I mind I played a game about a year ago with 131 mods. Most people on the forum were surprised that the game actually ran at all. But it's not all good news, my reward for getting the game running again is a base defence vs cultists who seem 2b armed with plasma weapons, they are giving my mortar tank a heck of a pounding atm, LOL!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 21, 2015, 03:38:05 pm
As a last ditch effort I tried to use the ruleset u sent @ 0444 19/04/15 for another player having probs and wud u believe it, I get by 9pm. Still unsure what was causing the crash but will let u know if I encounter any further probs.

The game was trying to complete an alien mission but the ruleset was missing a crucial part that was changed recently.

[quote author=SIMON link=topic=3328.msg43276#msg43276 date=1429619476 But it's not all good news, my reward for getting the game running again is a base defence vs cultists who seem 2b armed with plasma weapons, they are giving my mortar tank a heck of a pounding atm, LOL!
[/quote]

Cultists don't do alien retaliation missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 21, 2015, 04:28:18 pm
They looked like cultists to me and it had the messages "cultist has panicked"/"cultist has gone beserk" coming up during the mission. Maybe it just went weird? Unfortunately I've overwritten that save for the start of the nxt mission - the mercenary base.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ridаn on April 21, 2015, 04:50:23 pm
Cultists don't do alien retaliation missions.
From my experience with Piratez, and according to Dioxine, all alien races can launch Retaliation when you shot their UFOs down.
Those Retaliations ignore scouting phase and just spawn a Battleship. Said Battleship would be going straight for base, from which Interceptors were launched from.
Battleship crew uses defaultish Retaliation weapon loadout - plasmas and blaster launchers.

If you found out how to disable Retaliation completely and it was just some fluke - please share. Getting attacked by non combatant factions (tourists for example) with blaster launchers, or races which shouldnt have access to plasma guns really ruins immersion.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 21, 2015, 04:53:03 pm
They looked like cultists to me and it had the messages "cultist has panicked"/"cultist has gone beserk" coming up during the mission. Maybe it just went weird? Unfortunately I've overwritten that save for the start of the nxt mission - the mercenary base.

I think I only changed this a few weeks ago, but Cultists (and mercenaries) cannot be used for Retaliation missions. Either you're using a older save or something went wrong.

From my experience with Piratez, and according to Dioxine, all alien races can launch Retaliation when you shot their UFOs down.
Those Retaliations ignore scouting phase and just spawn a Battleship. Said Battleship would be going straight for base, from which Interceptors were launched from.
Battleship crew uses defaultish Retaliation weapon loadout - plasmas and blaster launchers.

If you found out how to disable Retaliation completely and it was just some fluke - please share. Getting attacked by non combatant factions (tourists for example) with blaster launchers, or races which shouldnt have access to plasma guns really ruins immersion.

There's a setting for alienRaces which is retaliation: false that is supposed to prevent these situations.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 21, 2015, 05:02:59 pm
It's as Ridan says my radar detected a battleship that went straight for my base in N Africa, there were no scouts that I was aware of however my previous mission had been a cultist crash site.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 21, 2015, 05:21:09 pm
It's as Ridan says my radar detected a battleship that went straight for my base in N Africa, there were no scouts that I was aware of however my previous mission had been a cultist crash site.

Maybe something got changed meanwhile, because according to the wiki that definitely shouldn't be happening.

Meanwhile I'm testing some custom music to add to the MJ12/Mercenary missions during combat. Here's what I've been using:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ld8Dlh7o8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ld8Dlh7o8) - Omega Point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs) - Prelude to War

I'm still not sure if this won't get repetitive in a loop, though.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on April 21, 2015, 06:02:30 pm
Meanwhile I'm testing some custom music to add to the MJ12/Mercenary missions during combat. Here's what I've been using:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ld8Dlh7o8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ld8Dlh7o8) - Omega Point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs) - Prelude to War

I'm still not sure if this won't get repetitive in a loop, though.

I've been doing the same for the PirateZ LP, Hobbes.  I found that 3 and 4 minute clips became repetitive quickly.  I remaster and mixed together songs to make 10- 15 minute versions and it feels better now.   The good news is that the average player doesn't take half as long as someone doing an LP, because I tend to talk alot about everything.  So this may not be as much of an issue for the normal player.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Meridian on April 21, 2015, 06:21:20 pm
Meanwhile I'm testing some custom music to add to the MJ12/Mercenary missions during combat. Here's what I've been using:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ld8Dlh7o8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ld8Dlh7o8) - Omega Point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs) - Prelude to War

I fully support the idea of custom music, but would like to ask to use -- if possible -- free music.
If you add copyright protected music, LPers like NeptunesNook will have problems... in better case just a 3rd-party content match (already quite bad), in worse case a copyright strike (very bad).

I don't know about the first one, but the second (from Battlestar Galactica) will most probably be protected.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 21, 2015, 06:36:31 pm
I fully support the idea of custom music, but would like to ask to use -- if possible -- free music.
If you add copyright protected music, LPers like NeptunesNook will have problems... in better case just a 3rd-party content match (already quite bad), in worse case a copyright strike (very bad).

I don't know about the first one, but the second (from Battlestar Galactica) will most probably be protected.

Yeah, I was just discussing music on the irc channel and I decided not to add any custom music. Players might not like my choices and copyright is always an issue. It's just better to leave this open to allow it to be used with music mods.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 23, 2015, 02:37:21 pm
Meanwhile, I've uploaded yesterday a new version to the mod site that fixes several little bugs posted here.

At this stage I'm essentially either fixing bugs, removing stuff that doesn't really add something new or/and that can't work as expected, specially with its sprites.

There was an idea a while ago of adding Omega versions of the craft weapons that I'll probably add in the future. But the biggest change for later will be when mission scripting becomes available later, which will allow for some serious customization of the MJ12, Cultist and Mothership missions. And I still need to finish maps for some of those missions, whenever I have time since at the moment my focus is on playtesting for balance and bugs.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 24, 2015, 05:23:50 pm
Hi Hobbes, have run into more probs, see attached save, SKY 2 was enroute to a crash site when it picks up the 2 landed supply ships and landed battleship for alien base 1. From that position I've redirected it to the 1st & 2nd landed supply ships (it can't catch the battleship on the ground) but when the mission starts for either supply ship the game crashes to the desktop with no error message. Can u help me out here, thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 24, 2015, 05:54:11 pm
Hi Hobbes, have run into more probs, see attached save, SKY 2 was enroute to a crash site when it picks up the 2 landed supply ships and landed battleship for alien base 1. From that position I've redirected it to the 1st & 2nd landed supply ships (it can't catch the battleship on the ground) but when the mission starts for either supply ship the game crashes to the desktop with no error message. Can u help me out here, thanks in advance.

To me the mission starts OK with the 2nd Supply Ship but not with the 1st one. This is a weird one, I don't have time now but I'll look into this later.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 24, 2015, 06:23:47 pm
Ta have managed to start the assault on the second landed supply ship, I did also check that I can assault the alien base so as u said this is a bit unusual. Will keep u informed of anything else that goes woopsy.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 24, 2015, 07:23:39 pm
Ta have managed to start the assault on the second landed supply ship, I did also check that I can assault the alien base so as u said this is a bit unusual. Will keep u informed of anything else that goes woopsy.

I think I've discovered what is causing the bug: the MissionZone is wrongly defined and the UFO has actually landed on water, so the game isn't able to assign it a terrain and it crashes. If you let it take off and land again (this time on land, not water) you can play the mission without problems.

This is actually a Terrain Pack bug related to Volutar's Improved Globe: he redesigned extensive parts of Australasia and the island where the UFO has landed is actually bigger in vanilla than on his globe, but the MissionZone hasn't been adjusted. I think I'll actually use this opportunity to check all MZs and also to add some new ones so that the UFOs don't always land on the same areas.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: the_third_curry on April 25, 2015, 05:40:54 am
Yeah, I was just discussing music on the irc channel and I decided not to add any custom music. Players might not like my choices and copyright is always an issue. It's just better to leave this open to allow it to be used with music mods.

You could check the soundtrack Gifty made a while back. Most of it is fairly close in style to the default X-com music.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1479.msg13488.html#msg13488
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Gifty on April 25, 2015, 10:26:44 am
I was just about to say, if you want custom music that hews as close as possible to the original music, I'd be willing to help. At the same time, I think the decision not to include new music is also a sensible one, since style is a really difficult thing to get right.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 25, 2015, 03:06:34 pm
You could check the soundtrack Gifty made a while back. Most of it is fairly close in style to the default X-com music.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1479.msg13488.html#msg13488

I was just about to say, if you want custom music that hews as close as possible to the original music, I'd be willing to help. At the same time, I think the decision not to include new music is also a sensible one, since style is a really difficult thing to get right.

I'll have a listen to it later when I have time, thanks. I'm just looking to complement the original score with music for the new missions.

EDIT: nice work! there are some tracks there that I really like and most likely will find their way to the new missions :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on April 26, 2015, 02:35:21 am
What an awesome mod this is? Just finished a port attack in Hawaii that had Ethereals, Mutons, Snakemen, Cyberdiscs and Chryssallids. Talk about bloody tough but got thru without losing any troops, tho the civvies were practically wiped out. What more can this mod offer?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 26, 2015, 02:43:15 am
What an awesome mod this is? Just finished a port attack in Hawaii that had Ethereals, Mutons, Snakemen, Cyberdiscs and Chryssallids. Talk about bloody tough but got thru without losing any troops, tho the civvies were practically wiped out. What more can this mod offer?

Wait for it... ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 30, 2015, 01:42:03 am
Version 0.5.2 uploaded (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux) to the mod site.

Contains fixes to the bug reported by Simon plus some minor issues.

Meanwhile, NeptunesNookGames continues his Let's Play (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMtMqwalF-c) featuring UFO Redux, where he had already to battle Cultists plus some really tough decisions. The squaddie named after me on this series has been killed 3 times already since Neptunes's selected me for scouting duties. ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on April 30, 2015, 11:04:02 am
The squaddie named after me on this series has been killed 3 times already since Neptunes's selected me for scouting duties. ;)

Uhh thats bad, i haven't died in Meridians Let's play so far :)
Scouting duty is somewhat dangerous.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on April 30, 2015, 01:14:29 pm
Uhh thats bad, i haven't died in Meridians Let's play so far :)
Scouting duty is somewhat dangerous.

For some reason you're the commander right now, sir :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on April 30, 2015, 11:39:28 pm
Added "" to you extraString Section
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 05, 2015, 02:17:09 am
This might not be the right place for this question but since redux is the main mod in my current game, I'll ask it here. I always like to give my troops a variety of weapons to cover many situations and to last as long as possible but from what I can see in my current game the shotgun will become outclassed from mid game onwards even including the OW and pump action shotguns. I know there's a plasma shotgun mod out now but it has 4 alien item levels where redux has three. I managed to download from dropbox Warboy's older shotgun mod but what I wud like to know wud there be any conflict in using this mod now? Using nightly 2015-30-04 with redux version 0.52. Attached is my options cfg file showing all the mods I've running. From what I can tell I can't see any major probs but wud like opinions from the forum b4 I decide to put it on or not. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 05, 2015, 02:36:12 am
This might not be the right place for this question but since redux is the main mod in my current game, I'll ask it here. I always like to give my troops a variety of weapons to cover many situations and to last as long as possible but from what I can see in my current game the shotgun will become outclassed from mid game onwards even including the OW and pump action shotguns. I know there's a plasma shotgun mod out now but it has 4 alien item levels where redux has three. I managed to download from dropbox Warboy's older shotgun mod but what I wud like to know wud there be any conflict in using this mod now? Using nightly 2015-30-04 with redux version 0.52. Attached is my options cfg file showing all the mods I've running. From what I can tell I can't see any major probs but wud like opinions from the forum b4 I decide to put it on or not. Thanks in advance.

Any mods that add more than the 3 vanilla item levels can give you issues.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 05, 2015, 03:06:54 am
No I checked that as best as possible and I'm 99% certain all mods if they do have item levels defined in them, they're like redux (0-2). So it shud be ok & I'll put it on after doing the merc base(hopefully not blasting the scientist this time, LOL). Had to start a brand new game as my hard drive died and wasn't able to save the data for the new hard drive.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 05, 2015, 04:20:45 am
If the aliens don't use those modded weapons (by deleting any entry on alienDeployments) then you should be able to include and use those items.

I think I'll eventually add some sort of advanced shotgun to Redux in the future. I've recently changed the MJ-12 plasma weapons stats to turn them into a heavy pistol, carbine and LMG and I'm really liking those weapons on my current campaign. You can research and use them once recovered (and you need to run into the Mercs again), although you can't manufacture them yet, although I'll change that in the next version.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 07, 2015, 10:05:34 pm
I've been slightly redesigning the Laser/Plasma weapons to expand the variety of the advanced weapons and integrate them better. Here's the new list so far:

* Laser Gun - vanilla laser pistol but requires clips
* Laser Carbine - vanilla laser rifle but requires clips
* Heavy Laser - vanilla heavy laser but requires clips
Those 3 weapons require Laser Weapons to unlock research/manufacture

* Omega Laser Gun - vanilla laser pistol but requires clips
* Omega Laser Carbine - vanilla laser rifle but requires clips
* Omega Heavy Laser - vanilla heavy laser but requires clips
Those 3 weapons can only be recovered from the Merc missions after the 1st month and when researched they unlock Laser Weapons.

* Laser Pistol - vanilla stats, unlimited ammo
* Laser Rifle - vanilla stats, unlimited ammo
* Laser Sniper Rifle - XComUtil's Heavy Laser, unlimited ammo. 120 damage
Those 3 weapons are upgrades that are unlocked for research/manufacture when Elerium (and the specific weapons) are researched

* Alloy Shotgun - requires Alien Alloys, Elerium and UFO Power Source. 60 damage per pellet.

* Plasma Gun (heavy pistol)
* Plasma Carbine (lighter rifle)
* Plasma Cannon (LMG)
These are Omega plasma weapons that can be used right after being recovered since they are human tech. However, it is required to unlock plasma weapons before it is possible to research and manufacture them.

Meanwhile, the new mod system has been implemented but it might take some time before I upgrade to the new version since I want to finish all the minor tweaks I'm currently working on. There will also be some major changes to the missions further up ahead when the new alienMission scripting is fully implemented.

Oh, and some very disturbing news... yesterday I've removed the turn 3 restriction on grenade/blaster use by the aliens on Redux. Be prepared... ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 08, 2015, 11:27:29 pm
Hobbes
I may have a bug report for you.
I was in a battle with a downed Overlord terror ship and when I tried
to use a blaster bomb on a Solarite it CTD.
No mods running other than Redux and some Utility/Extender stuff.
Win7, latest git etc
Attached is my WinRaR of the battle file.
BTW, I like to play with the Gazer, Anthropod and Waspite alien mods enabled because I like the variety,
but I have yet to run into any of these aliens playing Redux, any thoughts?
Hope you can help and Cheers from Virginia :)




Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 09, 2015, 02:33:46 am
Hobbes
I may have a bug report for you.
I was in a battle with a downed Overlord terror ship and when I tried
to use a blaster bomb on a Solarite it CTD.
No mods running other than Redux and some Utility/Extender stuff.
Win7, latest git etc
Attached is my WinRaR of the battle file.
BTW, I like to play with the Gazer, Anthropod and Waspite alien mods enabled because I like the variety,
but I have yet to run into any of these aliens playing Redux, any thoughts?
Hope you can help and Cheers from Virginia :)

Thanks and I found the bug that was causing the crash. If you need a quick solution, open the Redux ruleset file go to line 12373 and change this value to 95:
Code: [Select]
deathSound: 97
Save the modified ruleset, restart OXC and you should be able to resume your saved game.

As for Gazer, Anthropod and Waspite, the mod that gets loaded first (or last?) overrides all other alienDeployment entries, so you either get those alternative aliens (and vanilla ones) or the mixed Redux alien crews.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 09, 2015, 04:58:40 pm
I tried your suggestion and changed deathsound from 97 to 95 and I get the "Mod failed to load error".
I use Kingsoft Spreadsheet and Writer (they are free and pretty good ;)) and my line 12373 is stats about a 'mercenary leader standheight'.
The data I want to change is deathsound for the 'EnergyAlien', am I correct in this?
I'm no coder but I would like to learn how to change this myself, (I hate to get beat by something that sounds so simple to do ::))
What program do you use to make these changes?  Oh, and I am using v5.2 BTW.
Thanx for any help and as always Cheers from Virginia  :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 09, 2015, 08:08:36 pm
I tried your suggestion and changed deathsound from 97 to 95 and I get the "Mod failed to load error".
I use Kingsoft Spreadsheet and Writer (they are free and pretty good ;)) and my line 12373 is stats about a 'mercenary leader standheight'.
The data I want to change is deathsound for the 'EnergyAlien', am I correct in this?
I'm no coder but I would like to learn how to change this myself, (I hate to get beat by something that sounds so simple to do ::))
What program do you use to make these changes?  Oh, and I am using v5.2 BTW.
Thanx for any help and as always Cheers from Virginia  :)

I use Notepad++ for ruleset edits. You are correct in changing deathSound for 'EnergyAlien'. You can try to do a search for "deathSound: 95" and change the value into 97 (not the opposite as I was saying earlier).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 09, 2015, 10:02:36 pm
Very strange, but that did not help either. I tried 95 and 97 just to be sure, but the changes didn't work.
I DL'd Notepad++ and used it to edit the ruleset, with the same negative results.
On my version of Notepad++, however, line 12326 is the line for the deathSound for the energyalien, not 12373.?
Its under the heading ENERGYALIEN_ARMOR, correct?
BTW, when I open the ruleset, line 1 says UFO Redux v0.5.1, even though I extracted it from 0.5.2,
that's OK though, I think :) right?
Anyway, thanx for your help-Stan
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 10, 2015, 01:58:13 am
Very strange, but that did not help either. I tried 95 and 97 just to be sure, but the changes didn't work.
I DL'd Notepad++ and used it to edit the ruleset, with the same negative results.
On my version of Notepad++, however, line 12326 is the line for the deathSound for the energyalien, not 12373.?
Its under the heading ENERGYALIEN_ARMOR, correct?
BTW, when I open the ruleset, line 1 says UFO Redux v0.5.1, even though I extracted it from 0.5.2,
that's OK though, I think :) right?
Anyway, thanx for your help-Stan

Finally had time to get everything fixed. Try the attached 0.5.3 ruleset and see if it works for you.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 10, 2015, 02:55:53 am
Hobbes
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
That probably answers your question!
Nicely done my friend, hope it wasn't too much trouble.
Thanx and Cheers from Virginia 8)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 10, 2015, 03:03:12 am
BTW as a suggestion.
Have you ever thought about adding a plasma sniper rifle?
It seems fitting /logical since all the other weapon tiers have a sniper rifle.
any thoughts?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 10, 2015, 04:20:02 am
BTW as a suggestion.
Have you ever thought about adding a plasma sniper rifle?
It seems fitting /logical since all the other weapon tiers have a sniper rifle.
any thoughts?

My current approach is not to have all types of weapons for the laser/plasma tiers but to have an advanced weapons tier composed of weapons from both tiers plus the Alloy shotgun.

This mainly comes from my fixation with XComUtil's Improved Heavy Laser while playing the original game, which deals 120 damage and encourages its use as a Sniper Rifle and makes it useful even against Heavy Plasma.

And it is also related to how research can progress, since laser and plasma weapons research are hard to unlock, so having two tiers that complement one another to me makes more sense and helps the player more. On my current campaign I've just reached July without plasma weapons but since I have upgraded lasers (and a small stock of MJ12 Plasma Weapons that I can use both not manufacture, so they are reserved for special missions).

Concerning lore, it doesn't make much sense to me that the aliens would have the concepts of sniper rifle, shotgun or machine gun and apply them to their weapon designs.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 10, 2015, 06:44:23 pm
Version 0.5.4 uploaded to the mod site.

This version has been updated to the latest nightlies plus has a few bug fixes for Geoscape cities. It also has the new Alloy Shotgun and some renaming of laser/plasma weapons to increase variety. I've also removed the restrictions on the turn where the aliens can start using grenades/blaster weapons.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 11, 2015, 07:07:34 am
Hi Hobbes,
I'm playing the mod (I dig the newcasts  :)), until I got a CTD after attempting to deploy on a landed ufo. See attached for game save.
I just upgraded to the latest nightly and mod version 0.5.4.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 11, 2015, 01:30:30 pm
Hi Hobbes,
I'm playing the mod (I dig the newcasts  :)), until I got a CTD after attempting to deploy on a landed ufo. See attached for game save.
I just upgraded to the latest nightly and mod version 0.5.4.
Any ideas?

Try the attached ruleset.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 12, 2015, 03:00:00 am
Hobbes
I had the same problem as Alex-D had, but the new ruleset didn't help
No mods enabled, Win7,  v0.5.4 etc
I went back to v0.5.2 just to see what would happen and still the same CTD.
Hoe you can help-Stan
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 12, 2015, 03:30:02 am
Hobbes
I had the same problem as Alex-D had, but the new ruleset didn't help
No mods enabled, Win7,  v0.5.4 etc
I went back to v0.5.2 just to see what would happen and still the same CTD.
Hoe you can help-Stan

I'd swear that the location of the Battleship/Quebec City is not upon the sea but the game disagrees with me, since I changed the UFO's coordinates and it is possible to assault it now. I'm guessing I won't be seeing the end of these bug reports about the Terrain Pack.  ::)

Here's the saved game with the UFO's location corrected, so that you should be able to assault it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 12, 2015, 04:16:03 am
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Worked like a charm, Battle On
Death to all aliens  >:(
Cheers from Virginia
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: jgatkinsn on May 12, 2015, 05:16:27 am
Recommend you add the field:

Code: [Select]

id: ufo-redux


To your metadata.yml file, to reflect the mod portal id and make it easier to auto updating to work better :) A  way to remember it is to look at the last field for you mod's url:  https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 12, 2015, 09:10:14 am
Try the attached ruleset.

Thanks! The new ruleset fixed it for me.

By the way:
What the heck where those yellow sparky aliens!!! :o  Half of my squad was dead and they didn't even stepped outside the Skyranger ramp! And that is using smoke for cover!
I had to reload like 10 times until I figured out the method of wait inside my ship for the turkey shot, amid a cloud of smoke. Also the stunt rod was crucial for close combat against their yellow ball companions.

This alien was a surprise. I dig it!  :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 12, 2015, 07:11:14 pm
To your metadata.yml file, to reflect the mod portal id and make it easier to auto updating to work better :) A  way to remember it is to look at the last field for you mod's url:  https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux

I haven't added it since autoupdating isn't supported yet but I'll do it in the future, thanks.

Thanks! The new ruleset fixed it for me.

By the way:
What the heck where those yellow sparky aliens!!! :o  Half of my squad was dead and they didn't even stepped outside the Skyranger ramp! And that is using smoke for cover!
I had to reload like 10 times until I figured out the method of wait inside my ship for the turkey shot, amid a cloud of smoke. Also the stunt rod was crucial for close combat against their yellow ball companions.

This alien was a surprise. I dig it!  :)

I love to hear when things go as intended. :D Those aliens are from XOps' XenoOperations mod since I loved their concept, although I made a few changes about their story and added the 'explosion upon death' just to increase their nastiness ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 13, 2015, 06:03:24 am
I love to hear when things go as intended. :D Those aliens are from XOps' XenoOperations mod since I loved their concept, although I made a few changes about their story and added the 'explosion upon death' just to increase their nastiness ;)

Well, these were truly aliens and their built-in plasma gun was nasty and precise. At least they were vulnerable to regular small arms fire. It didn't help the landing was pretty close to the Skyranger and the terrain kept all of them pretty much close. So it was a slaughter.

Later there was a terror-like mission with civilians. The map (desert walled villa) was much bigger and there was more space between my landing site and them. Good thing the civvies acted as a "diversion" while I was getting into position  :D. Then a barrage of smoke forced these sparkmen to get close enough for me firing first.

Also there was a problem with their UFO. If you go back to the save game attached few post before, the UFO had a door on the south west side that was just passable, no noise effects or anything.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 13, 2015, 06:20:43 am
Well, these were truly aliens and their built-in plasma gun was nasty and precise. At least they were vulnerable to regular small arms fire. It didn't help the landing was pretty close to the Skyranger and the terrain kept all of them pretty much close. So it was a slaughter.

Later there was a terror-like mission with civilians. The map (desert walled villa) was much bigger and there was more space between my landing site and them. Good thing the civvies acted as a "diversion" while I was getting into position  :D. Then a barrage of smoke forced these sparkmen to get close enough for me firing first.

Also there was a problem with their UFO. If you go back to the save game attached few post before, the UFO had a door on the south west side that was just passable, no noise effects or anything.


XOps designed the Overlords with increased vulnerability to conventional and melee weapons and invulnerability to laser/plasma. But you won't know if a UFO scout will be carrying them or not until you get the Hyperwave Decoder.

The terror like mission will eventually get generated as a regular terror site in the future, when mission scripting is fully implemented. Then I might get it some specialized terrains for it as well.

Fixed the bug, thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 14, 2015, 12:58:17 am
Once again must say thanks for redux, into June in my current game and the 1 thing I'm really enjoying is the mixed races. Just did a medium scout there that had mutons & snakemen paired up so I can only imagine what future combo's will be. Using v0.5.4 with latest nightly and am wondering what's in store for v0.5.5 and beyond? I know I'm like a kid in a candy store with too much money but was wondering if u're thinking of moving redux over to Openxcom Extended?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 14, 2015, 02:18:35 am
Once again must say thanks for redux, into June in my current game and the 1 thing I'm really enjoying is the mixed races. Just did a medium scout there that had mutons & snakemen paired up so I can only imagine what future combo's will be. Using v0.5.4 with latest nightly and am wondering what's in store for v0.5.5 and beyond? I know I'm like a kid in a candy store with too much money but was wondering if u're thinking of moving redux over to Openxcom Extended?

:)

You can expect any kind of combinations, either single race missions or seeing up to 7 different races in a single mission.

I don't have yet on my plans to move to Extended, perhaps I'll do it when this mod moves out of beta status. As for 0.5.5 and beyond, here's a small list of what I'm planning to do when I have time and the new mission scripting is implemented:
- Rework of the Mercenary/MJ12 missions with new maps
- Rework of the missions involving the other additional factions
- More terrains for Terror Sites/UFOs (as part of the Terrain Pack)
- Advanced Craft Armaments
- More alien missions being generated each month

Besides those, I *might* add a few more features like new races, weapons, craft, base facilities, armors, etc., depending on how well they fit/balance with the rest, if they add meaningful changes, and have decent sprites/graphics. This is what happened with the recent addition of the Alloy Shotgun since I saw a niche for an advanced shotgun weapon based on the current laser/plasma weaponset.

There are quite a few existing mods that I've considered adding but that I haven't been able yet to get them to fit all of those requirements, like Gazer and Waspite aliens or the MiB mod. Also, TFTD/Apocalypse material won't be added (with the exception of terrains/maps).

If you don't mind, I got a few questions for you to help me deciding what may be added in the future: how difficult is this mod for you? Has it increased the difficulty when related to the vanilla game? In which areas have you felt it the most changes?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 02:50:15 am
- More alien missions being generated each month

You can actually do this?!  :o
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 14, 2015, 02:54:05 am
You can actually do this?!  :o

Warboy is currently working on implementing mission scripting as part of OpenTFTD. Once he finishes his work it will be possible to do all kinds of crazy things with the generation of alien missions. :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 03:02:35 am
Oh man..! I did not know that more missions per month could be one of them!

I always disliked how some missions would take the place of others. Especially missions like hybrids which are pretty much just a nuisance after you are well equipped but are really flavourful at the same time so it's sad to remove them. I was thinking of making a "civil disorder" type mission where alien cults cause trouble. You have to face armed "civilians" that are worth negative points if you kill them, actual civilians, and a few alien ring-leaders that are the cause for the issue. (Idea put here so hopefully you like it and save me the trouble of implementing it ;))

Having the possibility of more missions lowers the opportunity cost of such "unrest" missions which are not aliens and so should not steal the stage, but are still really neat and fitting. That's great news! Maybe we can even get a system that picks, say, 1 mission from set A (terror-like missions), 1 mission from set B (regular) and 1 from set C (unrest).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 14, 2015, 03:06:47 am
Oh man..! I did not know that more missions per month could be one of them!

I always disliked how some missions would take the place of others. Especially missions like hybrids which are pretty much just a nuisance after you are well equipped but are really flavourful at the same time so it's sad to remove them. I was thinking of making a "civil disorder" type mission where alien cults cause trouble. You have to face armed "civilians" that are worth negative points if you kill them, actual civilians, and a few alien ring-leaders that are the cause for the issue. (Idea put here so hopefully you like it and save me the trouble of implementing it ;))

Having the possibility of more missions lowers the opportunity cost of such "unrest" missions which are not aliens and so should not steal the stage, but are still really neat and fitting. That's great news! Maybe we can even get a system that picks, say, 1 mission from set A (terror-like missions), 1 mission from set B (regular) and 1 from set C (unrest).

LOL. This is already implemented on Redux with the Cultist faction. It still needs more unique terrains/maps and with mission scripting they will appear as missionSites with an customized alert and briefings (they currently move to their targets using human transports and need to be detected).

Some ideas I'm considering at the moment for Redux:
- Increase number of random missions from 1 to 2 on January and from 2 to 3 from July onwards
- Increase number of terror sites from 1 to 2 from July onwards
- Change month of scheduled alien retaliation from July to February-May (based on difficulty) with a 50% of being generated on a region where an XCom base is present
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 03:24:31 am
What?! Now I'm neglecting my own mod because of Piratez, and then I'll have to neglect it because of Redux, and the Piratez Extended, and then Robin's Apocalypse will come.. and then TftD! And one day I might finally get around to trying Xeno Ops!

The content being released by this community is incredible! Maybe I should just become a play tester..
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 14, 2015, 03:28:22 am
I always play on superhuman and it is quite hard so far, tested battlemode and the elite mutons seem very, very tough tho I've to encounter them in my normal game yet. Increasing the psi strength of the aliens but not psi skill levels the playing field a bit as once u get several strong psionic characters they virtually become immune to mc/panic. Not looking forward to meeting hybrids as tho I increased the cap on psi strength to 120 if my calculations r correct a hybrid wud have a 69% chance to mc a troop @ 20 squares even if he was 125/105 psi strength/psi skill. What I'm getting @ is the way it was in vanilla xcom, all u needed was a defensive strength of 131 or more and u were immune to any alien even panicking u. I know openxcom is a far improvement on the original '94 game but I feel that tho psionics is a good thing to have in the game the tendency is for the aliens to be wasting their time with it especially towards late game. Redux goes a good way to address this imbalance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 14, 2015, 03:55:08 am
I always play on superhuman and it is quite hard so far, tested battlemode and the elite mutons seem very, very tough tho I've to encounter them in my normal game yet. Increasing the psi strength of the aliens but not psi skill levels the playing field a bit as once u get several strong psionic characters they virtually become immune to mc/panic. Not looking forward to meeting hybrids as tho I increased the cap on psi strength to 120 if my calculations r correct a hybrid wud have a 69% chance to mc a troop @ 20 squares even if he was 125/105 psi strength/psi skill. What I'm getting @ is the way it was in vanilla xcom, all u needed was a defensive strength of 131 or more and u were immune to any alien even panicking u. I know openxcom is a far improvement on the original '94 game but I feel that tho psionics is a good thing to have in the game the tendency is for the aliens to be wasting their time with it especially towards late game. Redux goes a good way to address this imbalance.

I hated how in vanilla it was game over once you got Psionics and trained a few soldiers. And yeah, sometimes the aliens overdid their attacks but the mixed crews on Redux lessen the possibility of encountering all Ethereal crews, which prevents those AI misjudgements.

I'm also thinking of adding another research bottleneck in the future, like the laser one, but this time for power suits since they really help out even if you're still on conventional weapons. I haven't decided yet exactly if it will be a part of the MJ12 missions or something separate, but how would you feel about it?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 04:56:10 am
I can't speak for Redux, but in the XAE-Research mod I made, there is a much larger amount of work needed to get power suits. More dependencies and a need to interrogate an alien engineer after already having done some work (the same structure of alien interrogation unlocking a topic that has a "requires" for a previous topic as is used for Alien Origins -> Cydonia or Bust).

The ability to tank a few plasma rifle shots, and disregard laser weapons, changes the gameplay a lot. I've never tried conventional weapons + power armour, but that could allow you to take on even early (pistol+rifle) mutons on a roughly even playing field: both need a lot of shots to down anything.

I find XCom is well suited for "tiers": conventional weapons + overalls/armored vest; laser+personal armor; plasma+power armor.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 14, 2015, 07:53:28 am
I hated how in vanilla it was game over once you got Psionics and trained a few soldiers. And yeah, sometimes the aliens overdid their attacks but the mixed crews on Redux lessen the possibility of encountering all Ethereal crews, which prevents those AI misjudgements.

Actually I got into a landed ship (cruiser or similar medium size) full of Ethereals. My entire crew didn't last more than two turns before all were MC or panicked. Entire groups of troops went "off grid" once they were MC. I had to re-load and take off. Not worth the grinding. At least once the UFO took off as well it was intercepted over water by my two interceptors armed with Avalanches :D
At least I got an Ethereal captured from a landed scout. And he managed to panic like three of my soldiers in no time.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 14, 2015, 02:06:42 pm
Yep agree with making powersuits or even flying suits a bit harder to research but something I have done in my current game is give both those suits a few stat increases as follows:

Power Suit:
    stats:
      stamina: 10
      firing: 10
      strength: 10

Flying Suit:
    stats:
      stamina: 10
      reactions: 10
      firing: 10
      strength: 10

My thinking is that power & flying suits shud give the user a bit of a strength and stamina boost. The mechanics of the actual suit(s) shud assist with aiming as well. Since u're prob up in the air with a flying suit surely u have a better range of vision and hence the boost in reactions. Have only got power suits myself in my current game which is now in June, have been using a mixture of suits from the mod "league of superheroes" tho the superman suit may be a bit op. The only other thing I can add is how about a dedicated laser sniper rifle rather than converting the heavy laser to one, save those for normal rather than armored sectopods. Attached is an older mod that does this tho it cud need some images for the rifle as I think it uses the normal laser rifle sprites, unfortunately graphics r beyond me.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on May 14, 2015, 04:16:50 pm
While I agree with the armors giving stats boosts (it makes them a lot more interesting than just getting armor), I disagree with the values (and the fact that it comes at no cost).

Power armor should help you carry stuff and move about, that's fair. But unless it is wired in like in 40k, there is no way it should help you do quick stuff. You have to move and get the armor to understand that you want it to move (through activators of some kind) and it is entirely possible that the motors are not instant (think of hydraulics, they're strong, but they tend to be slow too).

For that reason, Aim/Melee/Reactions boosts don't make sense to me. In fact, I think they should be reduced by putting the armor on, especially flying armor. You have to control a weird flight unit on your back, surely that means reacting to threat becomes more difficult. You can't duck for cover if you're floating since gravity doesn't have the same pull. You can't turn around using your feet if you're flying, so your reflexes work against you, etc.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 14, 2015, 10:48:39 pm
I find XCom is well suited for "tiers": conventional weapons + overalls/armored vest; laser+personal armor; plasma+power armor.

For me Redux has somewhat blurred the distinctions between tiers since it is quite possible to complete Power Suit research and still be stuck in conventional, plus the plasma/laser tiers are mixed with the Improved Heavy Laser and the Alloy Shotgun.

Yep agree with making powersuits or even flying suits a bit harder to research but something I have done in my current game is give both those suits a few stat increases as follows:

Power Suit:
    stats:
      stamina: 10
      firing: 10
      strength: 10

Flying Suit:
    stats:
      stamina: 10
      reactions: 10
      firing: 10
      strength: 10

My thinking is that power & flying suits shud give the user a bit of a strength and stamina boost. The mechanics of the actual suit(s) shud assist with aiming as well. Since u're prob up in the air with a flying suit surely u have a better range of vision and hence the boost in reactions. Have only got power suits myself in my current game which is now in June, have been using a mixture of suits from the mod "league of superheroes" tho the superman suit may be a bit op. The only other thing I can add is how about a dedicated laser sniper rifle rather than converting the heavy laser to one, save those for normal rather than armored sectopods. Attached is an older mod that does this tho it cud need some images for the rifle as I think it uses the normal laser rifle sprites, unfortunately graphics r beyond me.

I'm try to stay of changing any stats or values for any vanilla items, that's why I renamed the clip versions of the laser pistol and rifle into gun and carbine. To me power suits should also be something that at least increases strength but this is altering vanilla too much, plus there will be balancing issues. It might be interesting to have some sort of additional armor with improved stats, but it needs more thinking.

Thank you for the laser sniper rifle you posted but I wasn't impressed by it since to me it is a redundant weapon. It can fire a maximum of 2 snap shots or 1 aimed with the same power as the laser rifle, and I'd rather just use the vanilla laser rifle since it can fire 7-9 shots, and if I'm doing my math right, it gives more chances of dealing more damage per turn than the sniper rifle.

Actually I got into a landed ship (cruiser or similar medium size) full of Ethereals. My entire crew didn't last more than two turns before all were MC or panicked. Entire groups of troops went "off grid" once they were MC. I had to re-load and take off. Not worth the grinding. At least once the UFO took off as well it was intercepted over water by my two interceptors armed with Avalanches :D
At least I got an Ethereal captured from a landed scout. And he managed to panic like three of my soldiers in no time.

You can still get single race crews on the smaller UFOs quite easily, even with a mixed crew, since those only deploy Soldiers/Engineers or Navigators.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 14, 2015, 11:37:05 pm
Well it's the only dedicated laser sniper rifle mod that I know of but it cud be a start for something better @ a future date. Having "fun" on my current mission a floater/muton harvester, must have run into "super muton" or the random number generator give me only 50% damage on each weapon hit (using TFTD damage formula) as the pesky muton took the following hits:

1. A H/E @ ground zero (have H/E @ 210 damage)
2. 1 hit from a Gauss Sniper Rifle
3. 2 hits from a knockout boomerang
4. A proximity grenade @ its feet
5. 2 hits with a Plasma Pistol

After all this he dropped but only unconscious, the elite mutons are going to be a heck of a challenge and they're more psi resistant too. But I'm looking forward to the challenge.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 15, 2015, 02:06:43 am
Well it's the only dedicated laser sniper rifle mod that I know of but it cud be a start for something better @ a future date.


It needs more power and less aim but at the same time I'm really addicted to the Improved Heavy Laser since I've used it for years with XComUtil, and how its 120 damage makes it a nice alternative to the Heavy Plasma. I might increase the research requirements for it though since it becomes one of the best weapons for the late game, specially against Sectopods.

Quote
Having "fun" on my current mission a floater/muton harvester, must have run into "super muton" or the random number generator give me only 50% damage on each weapon hit (using TFTD damage formula) as the pesky muton took the following hits:

1. A H/E @ ground zero (have H/E @ 210 damage)
2. 1 hit from a Gauss Sniper Rifle
3. 2 hits from a knockout boomerang
4. A proximity grenade @ its feet
5. 2 hits with a Plasma Pistol

After all this he dropped but only unconscious, the elite mutons are going to be a heck of a challenge and they're more psi resistant too. But I'm looking forward to the challenge.

If they're the vanilla green Mutons, then I've made no change to their stats. It really got lucky on all those shots.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 15, 2015, 09:32:44 am
While I agree with the armors giving stats boosts (it makes them a lot more interesting than just getting armor), I disagree with the values (and the fact that it comes at no cost).

Power armor should help you carry stuff and move about, that's fair. But unless it is wired in like in 40k, there is no way it should help you do quick stuff. You have to move and get the armor to understand that you want it to move (through activators of some kind) and it is entirely possible that the motors are not instant (think of hydraulics, they're strong, but they tend to be slow too).

For that reason, Aim/Melee/Reactions boosts don't make sense to me. In fact, I think they should be reduced by putting the armor on, especially flying armor. You have to control a weird flight unit on your back, surely that means reacting to threat becomes more difficult. You can't duck for cover if you're floating since gravity doesn't have the same pull. You can't turn around using your feet if you're flying, so your reflexes work against you, etc.

I pretty much agree with how Starcraft 1 and 2 show-cased what wearing bulky power-suits of armour would be like for the soldiers.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on May 15, 2015, 09:49:24 am


It needs more power and less aim but at the same time I'm really addicted to the Improved Heavy Laser since I've used it for years with XComUtil, and how its 120 damage makes it a nice alternative to the Heavy Plasma. I might increase the research requirements for it though since it becomes one of the best weapons for the late game, specially against Sectopods.

I decided to go with the increased Aim on the Heavy Laser and only 90 Damage, it is still a really good weapon and awesome ;>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on May 15, 2015, 04:06:25 pm
Good aim and lower damage is more like a sniper rifle. The heavy should be a cumbersome weapon so poor aim but powerful so high damage. I guess we all have different point of view for weapons...

I pretty much agree with how Starcraft 1 and 2 show-cased what wearing bulky power-suits of armour would be like for the soldiers.

... and armor. To me, starcraft and 40k power armors are really high tech sci-fi stuff. What year is starcraft set in? (40k is obvious..). They are not representing what some scientists cobbled together by reverse engineering alien tech over a few months in 1999 but a very mature technology. Totally different stuff.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 15, 2015, 07:47:41 pm
Ah yeah good point our scientists have had a scant few months to get the blueprints to engineering so yeah the suits would be complicated.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: lasermatt on May 16, 2015, 10:14:30 am
Hi, Sorry for this, i did search and found some advice.

But...How do i install this mod?
All the advice seems to be for the old file system associated with the nightlys.

I've downloaded the latest nightly and dropped redux in many and various places. It did work when i dropped it in /UFO/Mods but the missions seemed a bit random. I did some sort of massive omega base raid when I tried to recover a small UFO.

Thanks in advance. From what i can see, alot of effort has gone into this mod. Cudos
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 16, 2015, 10:15:31 am
You can still get single race crews on the smaller UFOs quite easily, even with a mixed crew, since those only deploy Soldiers/Engineers or Navigators.

It seems I got the jackpot with the Ethereals. In Siberia I got an alien base, several large landed vessels included battleships, and one downed cruiser. All of them crewed by just Ethereals. On attempting to fight one of the smaller UFOs, they managed to MC half of my squad in their turn (turn 2) while still inside the Skyranger! Smoke cover is not very effective once they spot one guy within the cloud and he gets MCd. He spots the rest and thus my troops change sides from yellow to blue.

I love challenges, but with still rifles, LMGs and only the alloy shotgun, albeit with Power Armor, this still gets really hard to beat.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: stan on May 16, 2015, 04:14:37 pm
Just a general question to all.
Do the Alien Elite that get wounded during battle, (falling to the ground with no deathsound)
why are they always dead when I get to their bodies?  Esp Muton Commandos.
They do get wounded during battle, right? am I just having a run of bad luck?
I have yet to capture one alive in this fashion.
Just a dumb question, no big deal if no one has a answer :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 16, 2015, 04:16:21 pm
Hi, Sorry for this, i did search and found some advice.

But...How do i install this mod?
All the advice seems to be for the old file system associated with the nightlys.

I've downloaded the latest nightly and dropped redux in many and various places. It did work when i dropped it in /UFO/Mods but the missions seemed a bit random. I did some sort of massive omega base raid when I tried to recover a small UFO.

Thanks in advance. From what i can see, alot of effort has gone into this mod. Cudos

You need to place the Redux folder inside the  /mods folder of OpenXCom (located in your Documents folder). Don't put it inside the folder where OpenXCom is installed.

It seems I got the jackpot with the Ethereals. In Siberia I got an alien base, several large landed vessels included battleships, and one downed cruiser. All of them crewed by just Ethereals. On attempting to fight one of the smaller UFOs, they managed to MC half of my squad in their turn (turn 2) while still inside the Skyranger! Smoke cover is not very effective once they spot one guy within the cloud and he gets MCd. He spots the rest and thus my troops change sides from yellow to blue.

I love challenges, but with still rifles, LMGs and only the alloy shotgun, albeit with Power Armor, this still gets really hard to beat.

Yup, that's Ethereals. :)

Dust-off next time you get a UFO full of them and you're still stuck with conventional weapons?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 16, 2015, 10:05:49 pm
Into August now in my current game, not brave enough yet to take on Ethereals in anything bigger than a large scout. Had 2 Ethereal terror ships go for Australia but my firestorms managed to crash them into the ocean. The 1st alien base has appeared in Florida, which is a snake/muton one-loads of fun and that brings me to my question; from what I cud see in the .rul file am I right on the following:

After u have researched alien operations, to open commander minus u need a Sectoid, Snakeman, Floater and Ethereal commanders, this opens up the martian solution and after researching that commander plus opens but u need another Ethereal commander to research cydonia or bust. Only have alien operations researched atm so plenty of game time left. One final point I've noticed when fighting the muton/snakemen mixed missions is that if their terror units r involved I've only got Celatids and Chryssalids but not Silacoids, is this intentional or is it random which muton tu appears?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 17, 2015, 01:16:37 am
A Muton Elite terror ship is a barrel full of laughs, LOL. The only sure way to take the Sectopods and Mutons out are either blaster bombs or high explosives tho I managed to blow up my own mortar tank. Even heavy plasmas aren't that must use vs Sectopods unless u're shooting them in ass. As for plasma rifles forget about that tactic. Thank goodness I've mass accelerator tech researched as the hand held mass cannon will do a nice 155 damage but brilliant mission as part of redux. Can u take down the big overseer ufo as its weapon range = 85km and on a test run there one of my firestorms got creamed before it cud even get to double plasma beam range (45km)? Attached r a couple of screenshots, ran out of BB's and almost H/E as well but only lost the tank tho 6 of my 10 troops were wounded.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 17, 2015, 01:53:03 am
After u have researched alien operations, to open commander minus u need a Sectoid, Snakeman, Floater and Ethereal commanders, this opens up the martian solution and after researching that commander plus opens but u need another Ethereal commander to research cydonia or bust. Only have alien operations researched atm so plenty of game time left. One final point I've noticed when fighting the muton/snakemen mixed missions is that if their terror units r involved I've only got Celatids and Chryssalids but not Silacoids, is this intentional or is it random which muton tu appears?

Silacoids appear more on the early game IIRC rather than when Mutons start to appear. My intention was to separate both since they are rather mediocre when compared with other terror units.

A Muton Elite terror ship is a barrel full of laughs, LOL. The only sure way to take the Sectopods and Mutons out are either blaster bombs or high explosives tho I managed to blow up my own mortar tank. Even heavy plasmas aren't that must use vs Sectopods unless u're shooting them in ass. As for plasma rifles forget about that tactic. Thank goodness I've mass accelerator tech researched as the hand held mass cannon will do a nice 155 damage but brilliant mission as part of redux. Can u take down the big overseer ufo as its weapon range = 85km and on a test run there one of my firestorms got creamed before it cud even get to double plasma beam range (45km)?

If you're using additional mods with high powered weapons then you're kinda missing the point of Redux, but everyone uses this mod as it wants :)

There are only two ways of encountering Ethereal Commanders: in Alien Base missions, either in the Battleship or in the base itself; or on the Overseer, but you need to shoot it down since it never lands.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 17, 2015, 06:52:14 am
Hi, Sorry for this, i did search and found some advice.

But...How do i install this mod?
All the advice seems to be for the old file system associated with the nightlys.

I've downloaded the latest nightly and dropped redux in many and various places. It did work when i dropped it in /UFO/Mods but the missions seemed a bit random. I did some sort of massive omega base raid when I tried to recover a small UFO.

Thanks in advance. From what i can see, alot of effort has gone into this mod. Cudos

Mods get installed in the mods folder where your saved data is. For Windows users, try checking your userdirectory for the folder OpenXcom. Welcome to the forums by the way!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 19, 2015, 12:47:20 am
Dust-off next time you get a UFO full of them and you're still stuck with conventional weapons?
Was stuck for a while, choosing my battles carefully. Until
I captured a Floater Scientist and a Floater Commander from a base. Then a bunch of technologies opened, including plasma and psionics, then it was a matter of waiting for the research to complete.

In the meanwhile, in an almost-cheating tactic, I kept blowing up their bases' control centers with only three blaster shots, and then dust-off. The screams of all those aliens in the control room was intoxicating  :D

Eventually, my best MC soldiers MC their way to MC an Ethereal Commander from a downed battleship, and took him in in essentially one turn. This opened Cydonia  :)

Now, at the pyramid level, I'm getting a CTD when I MC a Cyberdisk and click on it. Click on the CD on the attached file.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 19, 2015, 01:10:30 am
Just a general question to all.
Do the Alien Elite that get wounded during battle, (falling to the ground with no deathsound)
why are they always dead when I get to their bodies?  Esp Muton Commandos.
They do get wounded during battle, right? am I just having a run of bad luck?
I have yet to capture one alive in this fashion.
Just a dumb question, no big deal if no one has a answer :D

Yes, you should be able to capture Elite Mutons.

Was stuck for a while, choosing my battles carefully. Until
I captured a Floater Scientist and a Floater Commander from a base. Then a bunch of technologies opened, including plasma and psionics, then it was a matter of waiting for the research to complete.

In the meanwhile, in an almost-cheating tactic, I kept blowing up their bases' control centers with only three blaster shots, and then dust-off. The screams of all those aliens in the control room was intoxicating  :D

Eventually, my best MC soldiers MC their way to MC an Ethereal Commander from a downed battleship, and took him in in essentially one turn. This opened Cydonia  :)

Now, at the pyramid level, I'm getting a CTD when I MC a Cyberdisk and click on it. Click on the CD on the attached file.

You captured a Scientist and a Commander from different bases right? Because it is impossible to have both Commanders and Scientists spawned during the same mission.

I checked the saved game you posted and I can MC the Cyberdisc just fine.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 19, 2015, 02:53:26 am
You captured a Scientist and a Commander from different bases right? Because it is impossible to have both Commanders and Scientists spawned during the same mission.
Yes, different bases I believe. Two different floater bases I decided to assault.

I checked the saved game you posted and I can MC the Cyberdisc just fine.

The cyberdisk is already MC'ed. If I click on it to move it around or to fire then the game crashes. The Nightly is "git 2015-05-18 16:56". The mod version is 0.5.4 without anything else. The ruleset I'm using s attached.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 19, 2015, 03:42:57 am
The cyberdisk is already MC'ed. If I click on it to move it around or to fire then the game crashes. The Nightly is "git 2015-05-18 16:56". The mod version is 0.5.4 without anything else. The ruleset I'm using s attached.

I can move and fire the MC'ed Cyberdisc without any problem but I'm still using Nightly 05_07_1716. Something must have gotten broken between the nightly I'm using and yours since I haven't changed anything on Redux regarding Cyberdiscs.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Alex_D on May 19, 2015, 05:23:31 am
I can move and fire the MC'ed Cyberdisc without any problem but I'm still using Nightly 05_07_1716. Something must have gotten broken between the nightly I'm using and yours since I haven't changed anything on Redux regarding Cyberdiscs.

Yes, perhaps that's the case. Also, on the brain level, once the brain is destroyed, instead of a cut scene I get a CTD.
For example, in the attached save, if I fire a blaster up thru the hole under the brain floor and destroy it, a CTD happens.

By the way, and I noticed it in the past for the brain level in some on other mod games, all my soldier's weapons are unloaded missing a clip. You can see this on the savegame too. This is more of a question to the devs, rather to the mod author.  Maybe something funny happens when I save right away after the level renders? Or when I reshuffle equipment between the pyramid and the brain levels? I have no idea as I'm not familiar with the code.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 19, 2015, 01:42:22 pm
Yes, perhaps that's the case. Also, on the brain level, once the brain is destroyed, instead of a cut scene I get a CTD.
For example, in the attached save, if I fire a blaster up thru the hole under the brain floor and destroy it, a CTD happens.

By the way, and I noticed it in the past for the brain level in some on other mod games, all my soldier's weapons are unloaded missing a clip. You can see this on the savegame too. This is more of a question to the devs, rather to the mod author.  Maybe something funny happens when I save right away after the level renders? Or when I reshuffle equipment between the pyramid and the brain levels? I have no idea as I'm not familiar with the code.

I can destroy the Brain and get the end sequence.

The missing clip should be a bug from integration with TFTD.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on May 19, 2015, 02:34:29 pm
hobbes in case you changed some stuff on the final mission, i wanna advise you to take a look at latest alienDeployment changes (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commit/3c9294c1c186e95f9af79f0db22784d45358bf6f)

Are you still renovating your house?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 19, 2015, 08:39:39 pm
hobbes in case you changed some stuff on the final mission, i wanna advise you to take a look at latest alienDeployment changes (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commit/3c9294c1c186e95f9af79f0db22784d45358bf6f)

Are you still renovating your house?

Yeah, this must be the reason for the crashes.

I haven't even started renovating, we're still taking everything out so that the actual work can start.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on May 19, 2015, 09:00:05 pm
Yeah, this must be the reason for the crashes.

I haven't even started renovating, we're still taking everything out so that the actual work can start.

Maybe, i fixed this in my release today...

Also on the other note did you know that we now can have cutscenes defined?
So it would be possible to make a proper "News" System, which bang "World News" into the face of the player after completing a research.
Also custom cutscenes for missions at the end would be possible (myk002 told that there also will be cutscenes when a mission starts).

I probably will play around with this for "World News" stuff at the coming weekend.


Good luck with your renovation.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 19, 2015, 09:30:33 pm
Also on the other note did you know that we now can have cutscenes defined?
So it would be possible to make a proper "News" System, which bang "World News" into the face of the player after completing a research.
Also custom cutscenes for missions at the end would be possible (myk002 told that there also will be cutscenes when a mission starts).

I probably will play around with this for "World News" stuff at the coming weekend.

Yeah, I read about it but there are several issues for it to work: you need to design the cutscenes (and have them fit with the graphical style of the game), plus getting a cutscene or a 'World News' before or after every mission can get repetitive.

A small action sequence, like the Skyranger taking off or flying back to base on the Enemy Unknown 2012 remake would be fine though.

The best place for 'World News' would be to have a news ticker running on the bottom of Geoscape view - discreet enough to be ignored, non-repetitive and dynamic. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 22, 2015, 01:47:38 am
Enjoying my run through atm but I may have come upon a problem, was using "xcom intelligence" to c what missions r coming up and I noticed an overlord and cultist mission for 8th October 1999 so I forwarded to that point (Currently have just started a crashed muton terror ship of 4th October 1999). When I shoot these 2 ships down the game crashes as soon as I start the overlord one (crash site 51) but loads the cultist mission ok. Have u any idea what cud be causing this? Attached is any relevant files.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 22, 2015, 02:24:38 am
Enjoying my run through atm but I may have come upon a problem, was using "xcom intelligence" to c what missions r coming up and I noticed an overlord and cultist mission for 8th October 1999 so I forwarded to that point (Currently have just started a crashed muton terror ship of 4th October 1999). When I shoot these 2 ships down the game crashes as soon as I start the overlord one (crash site 51) but loads the cultist mission ok. Have u any idea what cud be causing this? Attached is any relevant files.

I can play the Overlord mission without a problem with the nightly I'm using (05_07_1716)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 22, 2015, 03:35:50 am
Tried the nightly u r using but same thing happens, I was using nightly (12-05-0922) so I'm quite mystified by this. Wud update to latest nightly of 20-05-0145 but was reading there 2nite about probs with mind controlling certain tu's. Tried 1 last tactic and let the ufo in question land but same thing happens for land site 44- see attached save. Have went back to 12-05-0922 til u can possibly investigate this further. Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 22, 2015, 03:43:20 am
Tried the nightly u r using but same thing happens, I was using nightly (12-05-0922) so I'm quite mystified by this. Wud update to latest nightly of 20-05-0145 but was reading there 2nite about probs with mind controlling certain tu's. Tried 1 last tactic and let the ufo in question land but same thing happens for land site 44- see attached save. Have went back to 12-05-0922 til u can possibly investigate this further. Many thanks in advance.

I can play the mission on TEST2.sav using openxcom_git_master_2015_05_07_1716. The issue is most likely with one of the other mods that you're using on this save game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 22, 2015, 04:47:46 am
I was beginning to suspect something like that as it does the same thing in battle mode but I've that many mods on and they're probably that much integrated there's little chance of working out which one may be causing the problem, I think I can still finish the game without having to encounter the overlords so the only thing I can do is delete those missions from an earlier save and hopefully that'll leave my game still very playable. But ta for your help and will let u know if this "poor" workaround doesn't work.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 22, 2015, 05:16:45 am
Talk about weird or what, deleted the overlord mission and went forward 2 c how things wud work out and eventually another overlord mission comes along and to my surprise it loads in fine!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 22, 2015, 03:55:21 pm
I was beginning to suspect something like that as it does the same thing in battle mode but I've that many mods on and they're probably that much integrated there's little chance of working out which one may be causing the problem, I think I can still finish the game without having to encounter the overlords so the only thing I can do is delete those missions from an earlier save and hopefully that'll leave my game still very playable. But ta for your help and will let u know if this "poor" workaround doesn't work.

The issue you're experiencing is not related to the Overlords or even Redux, so it's pointless to post more saves here since I can't help you.

The additional mod that is causing you issues is either related to equipment, armor, aliens or craft. When I load your saved game using only Redux the offending item/armor/etc. is removed so I'm able to play the Overlord mission without the issue you're having with the additional mod. .

If you want to find out which mod is causing you trouble: load the save game first only with Redux enabled (ignore the warnings about missing mods) to see if it works with your current nightly. If it's working, then activate 1 mod, load the saved game and perform the tactical mission. Repeat until you get the mission crash.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 22, 2015, 05:21:57 pm
Just tried the test2 save that was crashing last nite and it's loading the mission fine now so have no idea what caused the glitches last nite, perhaps there were gremlins in my machine. But I'm not going to worry about it as if it's not broken don't try and fix it. Looking forward to combating them now tho
Its only ap weaponry that seems effective vs them, well 300% damage as laser & plasma are useless. Also with a psi strength of 232 on superhuman u'll have to get into point blank range to have any chance with psionics
It will be a nice new challenge in my current game and once again thanks for all your advice/help.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on May 22, 2015, 11:20:06 pm
Just tried the test2 save that was crashing last nite and it's loading the mission fine now so have no idea what caused the glitches last nite, perhaps there were gremlins in my machine. But I'm not going to worry about it as if it's not broken don't try and fix it. Looking forward to combating them now tho
Its only ap weaponry that seems effective vs them, well 300% damage as laser & plasma are useless. Also with a psi strength of 232 on superhuman u'll have to get into point blank range to have any chance with psionics
It will be a nice new challenge in my current game and once again thanks for all your advice/help.

Did you update to the newest nightly? Because there were some issues which have been fixed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 22, 2015, 11:42:15 pm
Not yet as I only just downloaded 05-22-2015 1517, still working with the one from 05-12-2015 as the prob seems to have cleared up itself strangely. However I will update to this one if I encounter any further problems. I take it then that the "mc" probs referred to in https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3648.0/topicseen.html are all solved now. Thanks for your words of wisdom.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 23, 2015, 07:50:09 pm
Its only ap weaponry that seems effective vs them, well 300% damage as laser & plasma are useless. Also with a psi strength of 232 on superhuman u'll have to get into point blank range to have any chance with psionics

The new alloy shotguns were also introduced to help deal with the Overlords without having to use the conventional weapons. Of course, you need to get near the Overlords to hit them, which brings also other kind of problems since they explode upon death ;)


Quote
It will be a nice new challenge in my current game and once again thanks for all your advice/help.

Out of curiosity, of all the other mods you're using, which one would you recommend adding to Redux? I can't promise that I'll add it but I will consider it ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 23, 2015, 10:04:56 pm
There are several that come to mind so I can't really put one forward before any other. However u may wish to consider from the following shortlist: Advanced Medi Kit, Armor Stealth Suit, Enforcer, Naymore and Dropship.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on May 24, 2015, 05:00:01 pm
Just did my 1st mission there with overlords, a medium scout. I noticed that using improved flashbangs on them u don't get a live capture only the shards. I assume to get the med report on a live one is either by a medic or mind controlling the last overlord(s).
Tho mind controlling one shud be very hard as on superhuman their psi strength = 232
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 24, 2015, 05:43:47 pm
Just did my 1st mission there with overlords, a medium scout. I noticed that using improved flashbangs on them u don't get a live capture only the shards. I assume to get the med report on a live one is either by a medic or mind controlling the last overlord(s).
Tho mind controlling one shud be very hard as on superhuman their psi strength = 232

It should be impossible to capture Overlords. And you won't get the interrogation from a medic either.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: GreyManNo2 on May 28, 2015, 12:56:16 pm
Hey, I tried out Redux and love it.

I came across  a freaky new alien race - these yellow guys and their lighting discarding sphere drones.  ;D They're tough buggers. Who are they?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on May 28, 2015, 08:01:07 pm
Hey, I tried out Redux and love it.

I came across  a freaky new alien race - these yellow guys and their lighting discarding sphere drones.  ;D They're tough buggers. Who are they?

Hi, nice you're enjoying it :)

They are from XOps' XenoOperations mod and they are called Overlords.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XOps on May 29, 2015, 06:46:22 pm
I came across  a freaky new alien race - these yellow guys and their lighting discarding sphere drones.  ;D They're tough buggers. Who are they?
They are from XOps' XenoOperations mod and they are called Overlords.
And they nearly drove me insane trying to sprite.  :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 03, 2015, 01:07:09 am
Alrighty, finally had time to get back to this mod and there's a lot of stolen new stuff about to get added in the next version:
* Gazer, Holodrone, Waspite, Cybermite, Drone and Stalker aliens. Those will also be added to the mixed alien crews. Plus there will be specific alien crews for Terror Sites, so there will be a lot of diversity specially regarding the terrorist units present.
* MIB units for the MJ12 missions. I've kept clear of robin's MIB mod but it would look much better to have its units integrated.
* Cultists will have their own specific units rather than using civilians and giving them guns.
* Combat Armor will be available through the tech tree, instead of only through the Omega Facility mission. Thunderstorm and Improved HWPs might also be available later through tech tree. More armors/craft/craft armaments/HWPs under consideration
* New Alloy weapons: Alloy Cannon (for craft) and Alloy Sword.
* Alloy, Acid and Incendiary ammo for Small Launcher

Once I'm finished with those I'll get back to the Terrain Pack to fix/finish more terrains. And later there will be changes to the missions once scripting is possible.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 03, 2015, 01:18:10 am
Alrighty, finally had time to get back to this mod and there's a lot of stolen new stuff about to get added in the next version:
* Gazer, Holodrone, Waspite, Cybermite, Drone and Stalker aliens. Those will also be added to the mixed alien crews. Plus there will be specific alien crews for Terror Sites, so there will be a lot of diversity specially regarding the terrorist units present.
* MIB units for the MJ12 missions. I've kept clear of robin's MIB mod but it would look much better to have its units integrated.
* Cultists will have their own specific units rather than using civilians and giving them guns.
* Combat Armor will be available through the tech tree, instead of only through the Omega Facility mission. Thunderstorm and Improved HWPs might also be available later through tech tree. More armors/craft/craft armaments/HWPs under consideration
* New Alloy weapons: Alloy Cannon (for craft) and Alloy Sword.
* Alloy, Acid and Incendiary ammo for Small Launcher

Once I'm finished with those I'll get back to the Terrain Pack to fix/finish more terrains. And later there will be changes to the missions once scripting is possible.

Alloy Ammo for the Small Launcher? And Acid? I shtere even a damagetype which would be fitting for acid?
Stalker aliens? were did you find those?

And how is your renovation going?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 03, 2015, 01:55:54 am
Alloy Ammo for the Small Launcher? And Acid? I shtere even a damagetype which would be fitting for acid?
Stalker aliens? were did you find those?

And how is your renovation going?

Haven't tried the Acid yet but I think it may have some uses, same with the Alloy (AP) ammo.

Check the Phaser alien thread on Modding subforum

I signed the contract today, now it's 2 months more or less relaxed about the renovation :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: shadics on June 03, 2015, 05:46:06 pm
a little bug, if i put on the floor the stun grenade the game crash  :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 03, 2015, 05:48:35 pm
a little bug, if i put on the floor the stun grenade the game crash  :)

Fixed thanks :)

Just a little heads-up: at this point I'm concentrating on adding the new features and debugging them, so it will take some days before a new version is released. I'm also hoping that a new nightly is released because of the current issues with missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on June 04, 2015, 05:31:17 pm
I'm having trouble with UFO Redux mod. On latest mod version I'm getting CTD when launching Omega Facility mission. I've talked with the author and it works fine for him. I even got a zip created on his own working folder to exclude any upload issues to the mod page. I've also tried using version 5.2 which is one number lower than the current one and I have no issues there. Is there a way to get more logging info from OpenXcom log file in the My Dcouments folder? All what I get is that OX launched successfully, but I need additional exception log, what caused CTD.

I was using 05-25 nightly, 05-10 and 05-07 builds all with same results. However launching mission on 5.2 and then loading battlescape save on 5.4 doesn't cause any problem, only transition between briefing screen to equipment screen. I've tried everything even restoring to defaults, sending troops without any gear. All the time is CTD, so I would appreciate option for more logging info.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 04, 2015, 10:35:57 pm
did you check the openxcom.log in your user directory?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on June 04, 2015, 10:57:20 pm
Like I said it ends on

Quote
[04-06-2015 21:56:03]   [INFO]   OpenXcom started successfully!

But I need more details why it crashed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 08, 2015, 02:07:29 am
Like I said it ends on

But I need more details why it crashed.

I've just tried your save file with the latest openxcom_git_master_2015_06_03_1952 build and using my current 0.5.5 working version and I was able to ran the Omega Facility mission without problems.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 10, 2015, 06:57:41 am
Alrighty, a little update on the upcoming changes for 0.5.5 :)

First, a bug I can't fix. Of the following alienRaces I can start a Terror Mission on New Battle with STR_MIXED_7_5_BASE but the other 2 will cause a crash right after the Skyranger appears. These crashes also appear on other alienRace entries, so I'm a bit clueless at the moment on how to solve it

Code: [Select]
  - id: STR_MIXED_7_4_BASE
    members:
      - STR_ETHEREAL_COMMANDER
      - STR_MUTON_LEADER
      - STR_ETHEREAL_LEADER
      - STR_MUTON_SOLDIER
      - STR_ETHEREAL_LEADER
      - STR_MUTON_SOLDIER
      - STR_SECTOPOD_TERRORIST
      - STR_CHRYSSALID_TERRORIST
      - STR_HOLODRONE_TERRORIST
  - id: STR_MIXED_7_5_BASE
    members:
      - STR_MUTON_LEADER
      - STR_ETHEREAL_LEADER
      - STR_MUTON_ENGINEER
      - STR_GAZER_MEDIC
      - STR_GAZER_NAVIGATOR
      - STR_MUTON_SOLDIER
      - STR_CYBERDISC_TERRORIST
      - STR_HOLODRONE_TERRORIST
      - STR_CHRYSSALID_TERRORIST
      - STR_CELATID_TERRORIST
  - id: STR_MIXED_7_6_BASE
    members:
      - STR_GAZER_COMMANDER
      - STR_MUTON_LEADER
      - STR_MUTON_ENGINEER
      - STR_MUTON_SOLDIER
      - STR_ETHEREAL_LEADER
      - STR_MUTON_SOLDIER
      - STR_SECTOPOD_TERRORIST
      - STR_CHRYSSALID_TERRORIST
      - STR_SILACOID_TERRORIST
      - STR_HOLODRONE_TERRORIST

As you may have noticed from the above code, you can now have 4 types of terrorist units on terror sites, plus I've added robin's Waspite and Gazer alien races, and those aliens also appear on Mixed race missions. I've also added tollworkout's Phaser/Stalker race, although I've made a few changes to the sprites and abilities. Both aliens now can only be hurt by incendiary or smoke weapons. Phasers will be also a race like the Overlords, not directly involved with the aliens but taking advantage of the invasion.

There are now 4 new civilian units, 2 left overs from TFTD (the beach man/woman) and 2 more from Piratez. I've also replaced all of the Cultist with the Raider sprites from Piratez, so now they look more like a post-apocalyptic gang.

I've also decided to incorporate robin's Men In Black with the MJ12 campaign, so the MIBs appear after the 1st month. The Mercs/Omega/MIB missions are also going to be finished, with an Escape mission.

And, when all of this gets finished, it's time to get back to the Terrain Pack for some upgrades there. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on June 10, 2015, 07:15:40 am
Maybe I am behind the current trends and novelties but aren't the alien races limited to 8 units each? (ranks 0 - Commander to 5 - Soldier, plus 6 & 7 for terror units - you can of course mix and match these, ranks are irrelevant, but I think the number is...). Your races have 9-10 units from what I can see...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 10, 2015, 10:27:56 am
Maybe I am behind the current trends and novelties but aren't the alien races limited to 8 units each? (ranks 0 - Commander to 5 - Soldier, plus 6 & 7 for terror units - you can of course mix and match these, ranks are irrelevant, but I think the number is...). Your races have 9-10 units from what I can see...

Well yes the number of ranks is hardcoded, you can however asign those ranks to whatever existing unit you wish.
If he had crashes then it is probably due this. Hobes give it at try with only 8 entries.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 10, 2015, 06:35:45 pm
Maybe I am behind the current trends and novelties but aren't the alien races limited to 8 units each? (ranks 0 - Commander to 5 - Soldier, plus 6 & 7 for terror units - you can of course mix and match these, ranks are irrelevant, but I think the number is...). Your races have 9-10 units from what I can see...

Well yes the number of ranks is hardcoded, you can however asign those ranks to whatever existing unit you wish.
If he had crashes then it is probably due this. Hobes give it at try with only 8 entries.

There is no limit to the number of units/ranks listed under each entry of alienRaces.

I tested it and if you check the code above, MIXED_7_5_BASE has 10 units and there's no problem generating a map with that alienDeployment (it is necessary to also change alienDeployments for this to work). I'm even thinking of designing a mission with 20 different alien units.

The issue behind those crashes is not the extra alien ranks - the crashes are happening also with alienRaces with the vanilla 8 ranks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 10, 2015, 06:59:07 pm
There is no limit to the number of units/ranks listed under each entry of alienRaces.

I tested it and if you check the code above, MIXED_7_5_BASE has 10 units and there's no problem generating a map with that alienDeployment (it is necessary to also change alienDeployments for this to work). I'm even thinking of designing a mission with 20 different alien units.

The issue behind those crashes is not the extra alien ranks - the crashes are happening also with alienRaces with the vanilla 8 ranks.

It is not limited? Wow that is news to me. I guess i have to overhaul me complete Mission ruleset with racecombinations and more ranks and such.
Anyway i am doing UFO Maps now.

One thing which bothers me,
So you can define more Racemembers for each race as many as you want. But you will also need to change Aliendeployments accordingly.
Number of Racemembers must match the Ranks in Aliendeployments.
So basically you can have all Races with 10 instead of 8 Mebers and 10 according ranks in Aliendeployments, but not one race with 11 ranks in the same set.
A race with 9 ranks should work, because it would find a appropriate Itemset in Aliendeployments, the question is what happens if he tries ti place rank 10 for a Alien race with 9 or 11 (as example) defined ranks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 10, 2015, 07:05:17 pm
It is not limited? Wow that is news to me. I guess i have to overhaul me complete Mission ruleset with racecombinations and more ranks and such.
Anyway i am doing UFO Maps now.

Nope, it is not limited but it isn't easy either:
* If you add more races you'll need to adjust alienDeployments to add units of those new races.
* You'll need to ensure that every alienRace that uses that alienDeployment has the required additional races, otherwise it will crash
* Finally, and more important, you can't change the .RMP files of the maps to use the new ranks. OXC will simply place the additional ranks on any spawn point, so those units can appear anywhere.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 10, 2015, 07:08:40 pm
Nope, it is not limited but it isn't easy either:
* If you add more races you'll need to adjust alienDeployments to add units of those new races.
* You'll need to ensure that every alienRace that uses that alienDeployment has the required additional races, otherwise it will crash
* Finally, and more important, you can't change the .RMP files of the maps to use the new ranks. OXC will simply place the additional ranks on any spawn point, so those units can appear anywhere.

That's what i thought.
How did you manage to get retaliation from your mixed races?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 10, 2015, 07:39:01 pm
That's what i thought.
How did you manage to get retaliation from your mixed races?

Retaliation always takes place with the race of the UFO you have shot down. Unless it is a planned mission chosen from the table, on which case it is chosen randomly from all alienRaces that don't have the 'retaliation: false' setting.

The alienRaces on upcoming 0.5.5 are going to be expanded. There are 2 types of alienRaces, each customized for certain vanilla alienMissions. You can draw retaliation missions from either type of alienRace.

EDIT: and here's an upcoming feature that I've promised some time ago. Cargo Ship finally docks at port :)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/DVDPIFBI061020150203.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on June 11, 2015, 12:42:07 am
Awesome ship. And I was right, in a way - your explanations make it clear that if you make some races with more ranks, you need compatible deployments. Of the three races you've pasted, some have 9 ranks, some 10, so they would crash, according to your words, if ever sharing a deployment.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 11, 2015, 02:12:33 am
Of the three races you've pasted, some have 9 ranks, some 10, so they would crash, according to your words, if ever sharing a deployment.

*facepalm* I knew there was something obvious... thanks!

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XOps on June 11, 2015, 03:41:53 am
Wow. I had no idea you could use more than 8 ranks. That'll be handy when I overhaul Cydonia. Also I'm loving that port map. I am assuming it will be for a special mission type?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 11, 2015, 04:42:06 am
Also I'm loving that port map. I am assuming it will be for a special mission type?

That map will be for the MJ12 MIB Asset Recovery mission. Basically you start on the Cargo Ship, locate and retrieve human plasma weapons and then evacuate to an extraction area on those port buildings.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 11, 2015, 09:34:37 am
That map will be for the MJ12 MIB Asset Recovery mission. Basically you start on the Cargo Ship, locate and retrieve human plasma weapons and then evacuate to an extraction area on those port buildings.

I would rather use it for a Port attck mission, with a possible second stage, searching the Cargo Ship, cruise Liner.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 11, 2015, 05:21:34 pm
I would rather use it for a Port attck mission, with a possible second stage, searching the Cargo Ship, cruise Liner.

I just tested and it doesn't seem possible to use this map for Port Attack since the mapscript doesn't allow for you to use addUFO (required to place the Cargo Ship) for terror sites.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on June 11, 2015, 06:26:35 pm
I just tested and it doesn't seem possible to use this map for Port Attack since the mapscript doesn't allow for you to use addUFO (required to place the Cargo Ship) for terror sites.

A request for Warboy ::)

In general, allows addUFO on terror mission allows to double tilesets :P
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on June 11, 2015, 06:28:43 pm
Cruise Liner could docks on TFTD Island too  :-X
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: perpetual on June 11, 2015, 08:53:26 pm
Just started playing and checking out the ruleset - have you given any consideration to adding more item levels to the aliens? (as per https://www.openxcom.com/mod/alien-armoury-expanded)

It would be a natural fit as there are already sniper and shotgun type weapons in the game.

I'd be down to do the tedious work of adding them to the alienDeployments. (Though you may want a different distribution of items than that mod)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 12, 2015, 03:21:16 am
A little update: today I've done some compatibility work so that several terrains based on Port are now fully compatible for their maps to be used together, so on the next update there will also be some new mixtures of vanilla Port, Port Modified, Industrial and Railyard terrains for Terror Site attacks.

A request for Warboy ::)

In general, allows addUFO on terror mission allows to double tilesets :P

addUFO was working with Terror Sites but not anymore.

But to use it to place the Cruise Ship in a Terror Mission, you'd have to set the ship as the UFO that launches the attack, which would mean an entirely new alienMission entry, and at the moment I'm unsure of that kind of change in the Terrain Pack due to possible implications to other mods.

Cruise Liner could docks on TFTD Island too  :-X

It would be required to create a dock to be able to move between the ship and land.

Just started playing and checking out the ruleset - have you given any consideration to adding more item levels to the aliens? (as per https://www.openxcom.com/mod/alien-armoury-expanded)

It would be a natural fit as there are already sniper and shotgun type weapons in the game.

I'd be down to do the tedious work of adding them to the alienDeployments. (Though you may want a different distribution of items than that mod)

Hi there,

Yeah I've looked into additional itemLevels but at the moment I'm not considering adding them. The advanced Laser Sniper, Plasma Cannon (LMG) and Alloy Shotgun are all weapon types developed and used only by humans, either Xcom or the Omega Corp., since to me the aliens would create their own weapon designs based on their alien needs, not human ones.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on June 12, 2015, 09:48:36 am
How about you add this cargo ship map with a fixed position towards the mapscript, for a specific terrorsite terrain, call it portattackcargo or so and place it behind those already existing peers.
I would love to have this for Port Attack Mission either with a CruiseLiner or a Cargo Ship.

Since you have already proved that it is possible to place maptiles were you wish them to be placed with the mapscript, and you have already done so.

I think doing it this way should be totally possible. But this just a suggestion.

EDIT: Just rembered the issues which would arrive with this in the Mapdataset... and addUFO is probably the way to go then.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on June 12, 2015, 02:12:53 pm
EDIT: Just rembered the issues which would arrive with this in the Mapdataset... and addUFO is probably the way to go then.

AddUFO doesn't really work with terror sites, since you need to define the flying ufo as the Cargo Ship, and if it gets shot down and assaulted you'd end up with a cargo ship on the middle of the jungle if you try to assault it.

Plus, in order to use a different UFO than the Terror Ship on terror missions you need to create a new aiienMission entry with the UFO/Cargo Ship added as the last UFO on the mission. Which can then lead to other messed-up situations, since the game randomly pick a mission from those with the same objective (3 = Terror), so for some regions (Siberia, etc.) you could get a Port Cargo Ship mission on a city that is not next to water.

At the moment it can be possible to add the docked cargo ship as a terror site, but it will simply create a lot of illogical exceptions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 11, 2015, 07:33:20 am
I'm interested in trying out this mod.  Truth be told, I haven't read through all 26 pages of this thread, but I did read the first page to see if it contained recent updates.  Does the mod still require the openxcom_git_master_2015_05_07_1716 to run?  If so, is there somewhere it can be downloaded?  It no longer appears on the nightly download page.

Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on July 11, 2015, 10:39:38 am
I'm interested in trying out this mod.  Truth be told, I haven't read through all 26 pages of this thread, but I did read the first page to see if it contained recent updates.  Does the mod still require the openxcom_git_master_2015_05_07_1716 to run?  If so, is there somewhere it can be downloaded?  It no longer appears on the nightly download page.

Thanks for any help.

The Version given is the minimum required. Since there were some severy changes in Openxcom's Mod and file handling.
I don't know to what Version Hobbes hasupdated his mod, but give it a try.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 11, 2015, 12:48:09 pm
I'm interested in trying out this mod.  Truth be told, I haven't read through all 26 pages of this thread, but I did read the first page to see if it contained recent updates.  Does the mod still require the openxcom_git_master_2015_05_07_1716 to run?  If so, is there somewhere it can be downloaded?  It no longer appears on the nightly download page.

Thanks for any help.

And I have deleted the zip file of that build by accident :(

I guess you could try with the latest nightly but I can't really guarantee that everything will work, although there shouldn't be any major issues from what I'm reading in the change log.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on July 11, 2015, 01:39:04 pm
And I have deleted the zip file of that build by accident :(

I guess you could try with the latest nightly but I can't really guarantee that everything will work, although there shouldn't be any major issues from what I'm reading in the change log.

The changes were not severe but, probably he will not have all terrains selectabel in the new battles menu.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 11, 2015, 04:09:25 pm
I guess you could try with the latest nightly but I can't really guarantee that everything will work, although there shouldn't be any major issues from what I'm reading in the change log.

OK.  I'll give it a shot.  I've been away from OXC for a while.  I knew about the setup change and was thinking maybe that was the last one before the change or something like that.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 11, 2015, 05:29:46 pm
OK.  I'll give it a shot.  I've been away from OXC for a while.  I knew about the setup change and was thinking maybe that was the last one before the change or something like that.  Thanks.

The current version is compatible with the new mod system, if that's what you mean by setup change. I have been working on a new version but it will take some time before I release it and update the nightly requirement since the update will be an extensive one.

If you ran into any troubles just let me know and I'll fix the ruleset.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 13, 2015, 05:08:55 am
If you ran into any troubles just let me know and I'll fix the ruleset.

Don't know if this is a version problem or something I've done.  Shot down an enemy Skyranger type aircraft.  Tried to launch a ground assault on it and OXC crashes to the desktop with no error messages (at least none that I know how to find).

Only other non-standard mod I have enabled is Luke's Dark UFOs.  Tried disabling that and it still crashes.

Up until this point, everything else seems to work fine.

Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 13, 2015, 04:38:24 pm
Don't know if this is a version problem or something I've done.  Shot down an enemy Skyranger type aircraft.  Tried to launch a ground assault on it and OXC crashes to the desktop with no error messages (at least none that I know how to find).

Only other non-standard mod I have enabled is Luke's Dark UFOs.  Tried disabling that and it still crashes.

Up until this point, everything else seems to work fine.

Thanks for any help.

I just downloaded the latest nightly and tried the current Redux version and everything seems to be working fine with the missions you described, either in New Battle or when starting a new campaign. Can you get me a save when the enemy Skyranger is crashed?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 14, 2015, 02:01:00 am
I just downloaded the latest nightly and tried the current Redux version and everything seems to be working fine with the missions you described, either in New Battle or when starting a new campaign. Can you get me a save when the enemy Skyranger is crashed?

Here's a save with the crashed Skyranger before launching the recovery mission.  I've tried various things but it crashes consistently before loading the equipment screen before the tactical battle.  Even tried sending the recovery team with no equipment so it doesn't look like an item problem.

I was able to play an instant battle, but I have no idea if I loaded the correct one or not.  It was a Skyranger, but I didn't think about the alien race and so it was with a normal Sectoid crew.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 14, 2015, 02:27:58 am
Here's a save with the crashed Skyranger before launching the recovery mission.  I've tried various things but it crashes consistently before loading the equipment screen before the tactical battle.  Even tried sending the recovery team with no equipment so it doesn't look like an item problem.

I was able to play an instant battle, but I have no idea if I loaded the correct one or not.  It was a Skyranger, but I didn't think about the alien race and so it was with a normal Sectoid crew.

Thanks.

I've opened your saved game file with the latest nightly and only using Redux 0.5.4 (no other mods selected) and the mission gets generated without a problem. I would guess that the problem might be related to Luke's Dark UFOs since that mod hasn't been updated for a really long time. Or, are you using Linux?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 14, 2015, 03:28:05 am
I've opened your saved game file with the latest nightly and only using Redux 0.5.4 (no other mods selected) and the mission gets generated without a problem. I would guess that the problem might be related to Luke's Dark UFOs since that mod hasn't been updated for a really long time. Or, are you using Linux?

Hmm.  I'm on Windows 7.  That was my first thought, but disabling the mod does not solve the problem.  Just now, I completely deleted the mod and re-saved the game without the mod enabled and it still crashes.  Also disabled all the standard mod settings I had enabled but that changed nothing.  Guess I'll have to restart a new game without Luke's and see if I run into the same problem.  Hadn't seen a single mission for over 30 game days anyway, so it's not a big loss.  :(

Is there an updated version of Luke's somewhere? even if the normal one?  I thought I saw a post somewhere that somebody had updated it and I thought I had downloaded it but I can't find it.

Oh well ... thanks for checking the save for me.

Could it be something weird with my installation?  I didn't get any error messages but obviously something is going on with my computer that isn't with yours.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 16, 2015, 05:56:49 pm
Had an interesting thing happen.

I removed Luke's Dark UFOs and started another game.  Got several UFOs landed near my base, so I saved before each one and played it out.  First was mercenaries with a normal Small Scout which played fine.  Another one turned out to be a landed Sky Ranger with mercenaries.  So, out of curiosity, I exited the game and reinstalled/re-enabled Luke's Dark UFOs.  Battle loaded without any problems.  I then aborted the mission, shot the enemy SkyRanger down and then assaulted it again, still with no problems.  So, does it make any sense that I have no problems now but did before?  Maybe a precedence kind of thing, where one needs to be enabled before the other?  If that's the case, then I wonder what enabling Luke's last does to UFO Redux.  Then again, I'm not certain I didn't enable them the same way previously.

Any chance of you incorporating Luke's UFOs into your mod?  For me, it's almost a must-have mod and I'm loathe to give it up.  Guess I will keep going with this game with it enabled to see if the problems come back.

Anyway, haven't seen much of UFO Redux yet and haven't figured out what those mercenaries are up to, but it's cool to have different enemies to fight.  Also was rudely awakened by a floater when I thought I was dealing with Sectoids, so that's cool to keep you on your toes.

Thanks.

*UPDATE*

<sigh> Never mind.  Next mission (landed UFO) immediately crashed.  Don't know if it's a SkyRanger but I suspect it is.  Is there any way to look and see what is happening and why it's crashing?  If I know what's causing it, perhaps it can be fixed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 16, 2015, 06:35:26 pm
So, does it make any sense that I have no problems now but did before?  Maybe a precedence kind of thing, where one needs to be enabled before the other?  If that's the case, then I wonder what enabling Luke's last does to UFO Redux.  Then again, I'm not certain I didn't enable them the same way previously.

No idea about the precedence.

Quote
Any chance of you incorporating Luke's UFOs into your mod?  For me, it's almost a must-have mod and I'm loathe to give it up.  Guess I will keep going with this game with it enabled to see if the problems come back.

Luke's Extra UFOs (or whatever is called) is incorporated into Redux, along with the other additional UFOs mod. But I only added the variations of the vanilla UFOs, I didn't add any of the new UFO designs.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 16, 2015, 06:38:33 pm
Luke's Extra UFOs (or whatever is called) is incorporated into Redux, along with the other additional UFOs mod. But I only added the variations of the vanilla UFOs, I didn't add any of the new UFO designs.

Oh ... that's cool.  Didn't realize or notice that.  Updated my last message as it started crashing again, so something is obviously wrong.  Sure enough, it's right there in the first post that's it's included and not to use it.  <sigh>  Guess I didn't read the entire post initially.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 17, 2015, 03:46:53 am
This is the second time I've landed in a really congested LZ, such that it was difficult disembarking from the SkyRanger, especially the second time with a tank blocking everybody up.  Fortunately, the LZ wasn't too hot, so I was able to blast away some terrain with the tank and at least get it off the ramp.  Couldn't move it anywhere else after that.

Is this terrain functioning as intended?

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 17, 2015, 08:07:51 am
Is this terrain functioning as intended?

I don't know if it was intended, but it surely is fun, I like it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 17, 2015, 04:06:47 pm
I don't know if it was intended, but it surely is fun, I like it.

The congested terrain in general is cool. I'm not so fond of not being able to disembark from the Skyranger. It'd be nice to at least be able to get off the ship before hitting the congestion. Also makes you wonder how it landed there in the first place.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 17, 2015, 05:35:54 pm
The congested terrain in general is cool. I'm not so fond of not being able to disembark from the Skyranger. It'd be nice to at least be able to get off the ship before hitting the congestion. Also makes you wonder how it landed there in the first place.

Perhaps those maps need a redo to make it easier for disembarking.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 17, 2015, 06:05:29 pm
Perhaps those maps need a redo to make it easier for disembarking.

I like the implied crashing Skyranger into jungle (in a place where it looks softer from above). :) Besides, where would you find a clear square of land in a jungle?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on July 17, 2015, 06:09:36 pm
Indeed, finding a clean landing strip in the jungle always feels a bit forced. It also makes the map looks ugly as there is a defined square with no vegetation under the skyranger. Maybe just making it such that a HE pack/HWP rocket/small rocket thrown off the ramp would adequately clear the LZ?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 17, 2015, 06:25:54 pm
Maybe just making it such that a HE pack/HWP rocket/small rocket thrown off the ramp would adequately clear the LZ?

I think even an ordinary grenade can remove that vegetation
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on July 17, 2015, 06:31:37 pm
I think the jungle should stay as it is to convey a very basic message, "tanks don't do well in the jungle". And yeah a single HE pack is usually enough to clear the way. Just remember to throw it BEHIND the bushes, not IN FRONT of them :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 17, 2015, 07:34:43 pm
I think the jungle should stay as it is to convey a very basic message, "tanks don't do well in the jungle". And yeah a single HE pack is usually enough to clear the way. Just remember to throw it BEHIND the bushes, not IN FRONT of them :)

I'll buy the "tanks don't do well" bit. But not being very familiar with this new terrain, will we always know if we're landing in jungle? I'm remembering the more open wooded terrain which is what I was expecting. So, is it like the TFTD ship missions which you know as you're going into them? Not at my computer so can't check if terrain looks different on the geoscape. If so I can live with it. Still wish I could get off both sides of the ramp but it's a minor complaint. Overall it's cool.

Thanks for comments.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: firoso on July 17, 2015, 07:55:57 pm
Also having crashes on some of the 'tutorial' missions, along with a few other quirks.

-The landed Omega Skyranger mission (Tutorial 3?) crashes my game if I don't shoot it down myself, which nearly always ends with it being destroyed, because when I close to range with cannons they oneshot my interceptor, wtf?  If I let it land on its own and undertake the mission, I get the 'ground assault' mission screen, and then CTD.

-My Skyranger has a capacity of 14, isn't it supposed to be 10?

-I've never seen a terror mission.

I'm running on 1.0 git 2015-07-13 12:22 + Win 8.1 U1
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 17, 2015, 11:07:30 pm
So, is it like the TFTD ship missions which you know as you're going into them? Not at my computer so can't check if terrain looks different on the geoscape.

Yeah, you can get that terrain or the vanilla Jungle (or Jungle Temple) on the vanilla Geoscape locations, so you won't really know which one you'll get.

Also having crashes on some of the 'tutorial' missions, along with a few other quirks.

-The landed Omega Skyranger mission (Tutorial 3?) crashes my game if I don't shoot it down myself, which nearly always ends with it being destroyed, because when I close to range with cannons they oneshot my interceptor, wtf?  If I let it land on its own and undertake the mission, I get the 'ground assault' mission screen, and then CTD.

-My Skyranger has a capacity of 14, isn't it supposed to be 10?

-I've never seen a terror mission.

I'm running on 1.0 git 2015-07-13 12:22 + Win 8.1 U1

Skyranger capacity has been restored to 14 a while ago.

I'll have a look at the transport shooting down the interceptor.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 18, 2015, 01:31:08 am
-I've never seen a terror mission.

Funny you should say that ... I haven't seen one yet either and I ran one game to March before restarting.  I've seen terror ships flying around (1 or 2) but they haven't hit anything yet.  I was wondering if the terror missions have been delayed for the other special missions during month 1.

I think those initial missions are very cool with the story they are telling, but I think you don't really get a sense of that without help.  First game, I inadvertently destroyed a few of those ships before I figured out how to bring them down.  Next game, I brought them down and recovered them, and got the data disks, but since I was researching other things, I figured I'd get to them when I get to them.  By the time I had researched the second data disk, the last Skyranger was long since blown out of the sky.  I didn't read about them initially in the spoiler section so now in my third game I'm going to see if I can do the missions "properly".

I'm wondering if doing these missions as intended is kind of a "bonus/advantage" for XCom or if you really need them in order to prepare for the future.  If it's the latter, it might be helpful if there was some way to script them so that the player doesn't miss them without even realizing it.  'Course, at this point it's kind of irrelevant but I feel like I need to get those disks researched in time so as to not invalidate the story line in regards to those missions, so I've dropped everything else to make that happen hopefully.  I'm guessing that OXC just doesn't allow for tighter scripting of these missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 18, 2015, 02:41:11 am
-The landed Omega Skyranger mission (Tutorial 3?) crashes my game if I don't shoot it down myself, which nearly always ends with it being destroyed, because when I close to range with cannons they oneshot my interceptor, wtf?  If I let it land on its own and undertake the mission, I get the 'ground assault' mission screen, and then CTD.

Just got to what I believe is the VIP mission and same thing happened ... crash to desktop.  No other mods running.  Reloaded and tried shooting it down and recovering and it still crashed.  Didn't have any trouble shooting it down ... interceptor took no damage but I did blow it out of the sky first attempt with a single cannon.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 18, 2015, 02:56:08 am
This was happening to me, but in my case it was because of a conflicting mod.  Haven't had any problems since I removed it and restarted from an earlier save.  I've also taken out a couple of them while they were landed.  I haven't had many problems shooting down those Skyrangers.  Not that I've shot down a lot, but between restarting a couple of times, I've shot down a few of them with a single cannon though one time even the cannon blew it up.  I've only received very minor damage to any of my interceptors.

Funny you should say that ... I haven't seen one yet either and I ran one game to March before restarting.  I've seen terror ships flying around (1 or 2) but they haven't hit anything yet.  I was wondering if the terror missions have been delayed for the other special missions during month 1.

There's been a few about the missing terror missions but I think it is related with the current development status of the TFTD mission system, which is still unfinished, or the ruleset might be lacking something.

Quote
I think those initial missions are very cool with the story they are telling, but I think you don't really get a sense of that without help.  First game, I inadvertently destroyed a few of those ships before I figured out how to bring them down.  Next game, I brought them down and recovered them, and got the data disks, but since I was researching other things, I figured I'd get to them when I get to them.  By the time I had researched the second data disk, the last Skyranger was long since blown out of the sky.  I didn't read about them initially in the spoiler section so now in my third game I'm going to see if I can do the missions "properly".

I decided upon this format because it replicates the game's system actually, since you have no idea of what to do the first time you play and then you learn through replaying.

Quote
I'm wondering if doing these missions as intended is kind of a "bonus/advantage" for XCom or if you really need them in order to prepare for the future.  If it's the latter, it might be helpful if there was some way to script them so that the player doesn't miss them without even realizing it.  'Course, at this point it's kind of irrelevant but I feel like I need to get those disks researched in time so as to not invalidate the story line in regards to those missions, so I've dropped everything else to make that happen hopefully.  I'm guessing that OXC just doesn't allow for tighter scripting of these missions.

The Omega Facility mission is essential unless you want to risk spending a lot time using only conventional weapons until you get another chance at recovering Laser weapons tech or capturing an alien scientist (and unlock plasmas weapons). You can ignore the data disks recovered in the UFO and transport mission, you only need those present in the Omega facility to gain new techs.

I'm currently reconsidering the Omega missions since everything is not working 100% (it is possible to get UFO retaliation missions manned by humans) once the new mission scripting gets installed. What I'm also considering is to push forwards the opportunity to get Laser tech while giving the player the improved conventional weapons, and have the Omega Facility mission appear as a mission site with an alert. But I still haven't quite defined this since it is all dependent on the upcoming changes to mission scripting.

Just got to what I believe is the VIP mission and same thing happened ... crash to desktop.  No other mods running.  Reloaded and tried shooting it down and recovering and it still crashed.  Didn't have any trouble shooting it down ... interceptor took no damage but I did blow it out of the sky first attempt with a single cannon.

Do you have a save file? Thanks
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 18, 2015, 03:37:58 am
There's been a few about the missing terror missions but I think it is related with the current development status of the TFTD mission system, which is still unfinished, or the ruleset might be lacking something.

Well, I'm not exactly complaining.  ;D  Not really missing trying to blow up Cyberdiscs without lasers.

Quote
Do you have a save file? Thanks

Here it is.  Sorry.  Was just coming back to add it to my post as I didn't think to do it earlier.  The attached save is just as the UFO is detected and before I've sent my Skyranger after it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: robin on July 18, 2015, 11:17:47 am
There's been a few about the missing terror missions but I think it is related with the current development status of the TFTD mission system, which is still unfinished, or the ruleset might be lacking something.
Be absolutely sure you have these in you terror (or terror-triggering) missions:
  - type: STR_ALIEN_TERROR
    points: 10
    objective: 3  <-----------------------------
    spawnZone: 3  <-----------------------------
    raceWeights:
      [ . . . cut . . . ]
    waves:
      [ . . . cut . . . ]
      - ufo: STR_TERROR_SHIP
        count: 1
        trajectory: P7
        timer: 9000
        objective: true  <-----------------------------

Custom UFO trajectories too can stop terror sites from happening, so maybe switching back to vanilla routes could fix the issue.

(You probably already knew all this but better be sure).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 18, 2015, 05:13:09 pm
Here it is.  Sorry.  Was just coming back to add it to my post as I didn't think to do it earlier.  The attached save is just as the UFO is detected and before I've sent my Skyranger after it.

I've opened the savegame and I was able to start the mission once the craft lands. :S

Be absolutely sure you have these in you terror (or terror-triggering) missions:
Custom UFO trajectories too can stop terror sites from happening, so maybe switching back to vanilla routes could fix the issue.

The ruleset is exactly as you described, so that isnt the issue.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on July 18, 2015, 06:16:28 pm
I've opened the savegame and I was able to start the mission once the craft lands. :S

Well, that's annoying.  Something is going on.  I've tried multiple times in various ways and the mission just won't start.

I've completely reinstalled from scratch, tried both the newest and oldest nightly available, recopied the data files from UFO, tried with and without the data patch.

I've even restarted from an earlier save (beginning of February) found the craft and followed it to a new location and it still crashes.

Don't know what else to try.

*UPDATE*

OK ... thought of one more thing to try.  Went back and downloaded UFO Redux .52 and disabled .54 and enabled .52.  Mission started!  Does that make any sense?

*UPDATE 2*
... and I was promptly annihilated!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on July 28, 2015, 06:25:56 pm
Hi Hobbes,

Please check your Deployment for the VIP-Transport Mission,

the mission starts without problems after commenting out line 16074 and line 16075 in your ruleset.

Same problem occurs with 16753 and 16754.

Problem is related towards your "musics:" definition, since there is no file given.

mfg hellrazor
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 28, 2015, 08:52:49 pm
Hi Hobbes,

Please check your Deployment for the VIP-Transport Mission,

the mission starts without problems after commenting out line 16074 and line 16075 in your ruleset.

Same problem occurs with 16753 and 16754.

Problem is related towards your "musics:" definition, since there is no file given.

mfg hellrazor

Yup, you're right. Surprisingly, it doesn't affect me since I can play without the file but this needs to be fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 31, 2015, 09:08:29 pm
OK, now that mission scripting is implemented I've been reworking the entire alienMissions structure of the mod, so there's going to be some major changes in the future:
* 4 new alien races, Waspites, Gazers, Phasers and Overlords, all of which can appear on mixed crews, with their respective Cybermite, Holodrone, Stalker and Energy Alien terrorist units.
* Different crew mixes for alien missions. Terror/Retaliation crews will consist only of mixed units, some races will appear more in some missions than others.
* Frequency of alienMissions will be higher than vanilla.

There's also some other major changes to the MJ12 and Cultists, since they'll be all tied together in special missions, but I haven't started implementing that part yet.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Meridian on July 31, 2015, 09:19:20 pm
So many mods to play, so little time :(
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on July 31, 2015, 09:53:38 pm
So many mods to play, so little time :(

Well, let's see if I can get a playable version soon :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 06, 2015, 05:22:48 am
Cap'n, we've spotted a ship! :D

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZKLHYUVE080520151107.png)

And more changes are coming...

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZEHQZLTO080520151107.png)
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/SDXMGSRE080520151107.png)

I've finished adding all of the new alien races, so there's going to be quite a mix in the missions.

I haven't finished the new alien mission structure but here's a draft of what I've done and some ideas:
* 75% chance of an Alien Infiltration mission each month.
* 2 Terror missions scheduled on month 1 and onwards, each with a 75% chance of occurring. If both terror missions are generated, then there's a 50% chance it will be a ship attack.
* Overseer UFO mission scheduled for month 1 and onwards, 75%, always takes place in regions without XCom bases.
* 1 special mission. This will include facility defense, escape missions, etc., and they might be linked together, where you need to complete several missions in a sequence, like the MJ12 campaign.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mariner on August 06, 2015, 07:31:27 pm
Been away for a while, just wanted to ask if this mod is running on a build prior to the tile generation system revamp.

If so, do you have plans to update the mod to use said system closer to a "1.0" build of Redux?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 06, 2015, 07:48:08 pm
Been away for a while, just wanted to ask if this mod is running on a build prior to the tile generation system revamp.

If so, do you have plans to update the mod to use said system closer to a "1.0" build of Redux?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

I'm not sure of what you mean by 'tile generation system' but I'm working at the moment to update Redux to the latest nightlies.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mariner on August 06, 2015, 07:51:24 pm
I'm not sure of what you mean by 'tile generation system' but I'm working at the moment to update Redux to the latest nightlies.
I remember that there was a huge change to how battleacape generates/uses tilesets, but I can't remember if Redux can run on those builds or if it was started before then.

I've been away from OXC for a while and the release of the OpTFTD nightlies brought me back into the fold, and this mod.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 06, 2015, 08:11:10 pm
I remember that there was a huge change to how battleacape generates/uses tilesets, but I can't remember if Redux can run on those builds or if it was started before then.

I've been away from OXC for a while and the release of the OpTFTD nightlies brought me back into the fold, and this mod.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

I think you mean the mapScripts, and yeah the last available version uses them, but it dated before the release of OpenTFTD nightlies from either May/June since I stopped releasing versions while waiting for OpenTFTD features to be implemented.

 I'd advise you to wait until I get the update ready since there are several new features coming up. Meanwhile, you can play OpenTFD and start getting reacquainted with Ship missions with (although they will consist of only 1 part in Redux) ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mariner on August 06, 2015, 08:15:55 pm
So Redux will now include OpTFTD and OXC?

Okay, I realize that OpTFTD runs on the same "engine" as OXC now in the nightlies, which clears up my question about your reply.

Can't wait to get to my desktop and mod in the Firestorm Restyle for Redux.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 06, 2015, 08:33:51 pm
So Redux will now include OpTFTD and OXC?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Redux will still be an expansion to the vanilla UFO: Defense game, but incorporating several terrains and missions of TFTD. Port terrain was already included and next version will have Island and Ship attacks, as well as special missions that use elements of the Artifact missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 12, 2015, 03:24:26 am
Hello again,

A little progress report on this mod:
* All of the new alien races have been added, just need a couple of UFOPedia pics. All of the alien crews (over 200 different ones) have also been updated to use the new races, so expect quite a variety.
* The Cultist and MJ12/MIB factions and their missions have been removed, for several reasons. The game generates retaliation missions if you shoot down their transports and it doesn't combine very well with XCom lore that the MJ12/MIB has better weapons. But their units have been recycled and will appear on the 'special' missions.
* The Omega weapons and some other redundant weapons have been removed. I'd still like to keep the AK47 and RPG because they're iconic weapons but they might get axed as well.
* Alloy tech will have a bigger role. Besides the existing Alloy Shotgun, there will be Alloy rounds for conventional weapons (and possibly the Small Launcher) and an Alloy Vest. I still haven't made my mind because there are several techs that I'd like to keep/add like improved HWPs/Interceptor/Transport.

My biggest current issue is if Lasers and Personal Armor can be unlock through the research tree, i.e. specific alien corpses to be researched first, or can only be unlocked through recovering items during missions. Or even both, which is probably the solution for now.

Those special missions will take place in unique terrains: Area 51 (for Research Facility and Military Base missions), Complex YY-18 (Defense Factory), HWP Factory, Skyranger Factory, and Slums.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: wsmithjr on August 12, 2015, 05:20:24 am
Changes sound good to me. While they were cool because they were better than XCOM weapons I agree that they really didn't feel right. I like the alloy weapons/ammunition much better. Hope you also put in Alloy HWPs.

Looking forward to the update ... if I can tear myself away from Tftd for a while.  ::) gotta finish one of those ship missions with more than a single surviving aquanaut.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 12, 2015, 06:13:21 am
Changes sound good to me. While they were cool because they were better than XCOM weapons I agree that they really didn't feel right. I like the alloy weapons/ammunition much better. Hope you also put in Alloy HWPs.

Looking forward to the update ... if I can tear myself away from Tftd for a while.  ::) gotta finish one of those ship missions with more than a single surviving aquanaut.

There's already the Improved HWPs, although I could add a requirement for alien alloys for manufacturing them. I'll have a look also at other mods.

Meanwhile, I'm about to convert another of my UFO2000 terrains, Skyranger Hangar.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 12, 2015, 11:03:48 am
Meanwhile, I'm about to convert another of my UFO2000 terrains, Skyranger Hangar.

Uhhh will you also put this into the terrainpack? Because its like a need NOW thing ;D  (awesome)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 12, 2015, 06:50:32 pm
Uhhh will you also put this into the terrainpack? Because its like a need NOW thing ;D  (awesome)

Right now I doubt it because of its size (60x60) and it doesn't fit any of the vanilla missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XOps on August 12, 2015, 06:56:11 pm
* The Cultist and MJ12/MIB factions and their missions have been removed, for several reasons. The game generates retaliation missions if you shoot down their transports and it doesn't combine very well with XCom lore that the MJ12/MIB has better weapons. But their units have been recycled and will appear on the 'special' missions.
One of the reasons I've never tried to make my own version of the MIB. The core engine just isn't built for it yet.

* The Omega weapons and some other redundant weapons have been removed. I'd still like to keep the AK47 and RPG because they're iconic weapons but they might get axed as well.
I think this is a good call myself. In the older versions of my mod, the researchable ballistic weapons usefulness was debatable at best. It really requires a lot of work on the tech tree and slow pacing to make them useful addition to the xcom arsenal before better weapons come along (weapon usefulness vs difficulty to acquire is out of balance basically). In most cases, they are a lot more trouble than their worth from a design standpoint.

* Alloy tech will have a bigger role. Besides the existing Alloy Shotgun, there will be Alloy rounds for conventional weapons (and possibly the Small Launcher) and an Alloy Vest. I still haven't made my mind because there are several techs that I'd like to keep/add like improved HWPs/Interceptor/Transport.
Alloy rounds sound nice. Especially since they add far less micro management to the game as opposed to a full tier of weapons.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on August 12, 2015, 07:12:01 pm
One of the reasons I've never tried to make my own version of the MIB. The core engine just isn't built for it yet.
Can't you just set the "retaliation: false" flag on the race definition? It at least gets rid of that problem, and the MIB being more of a coverup/politics faction, it's not that far-fetched that they wouldn't do frontal assaults.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Corsix on August 12, 2015, 08:02:45 pm
As a last ultimate way to keep those faction running, one can edit the save file, the mission parameter, but this is so desperate measure, that it might be even considered as "cheating".
But at least one keeps those factions running if one is fond of them, as I do f.ex. and don't have much time to recode the game and rely on "easy editing" ways for proper functionality.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 12, 2015, 08:55:27 pm
Can't you just set the "retaliation: false" flag on the race definition? It at least gets rid of that problem, and the MIB being more of a coverup/politics faction, it's not that far-fetched that they wouldn't do frontal assaults.

The 'retaliation:false' flag only works for the retaliation mission that is automatically generated each month after researching The Martian Threat or after a period of time, depending on the difficulty. It does not work for the retaliation missions that are generated by UFO shoot-downs.

As a last ultimate way to keep those faction running, one can edit the save file, the mission parameter, but this is so desperate measure, that it might be even considered as "cheating".
But at least one keeps those factions running if one is fond of them, as I do f.ex. and don't have much time to recode the game and rely on "easy editing" ways for proper functionality.

You'll still have missions like Terror Sites where you can fight human 'collaborators', which is the present name for MIBs/Cultists/Defected Nations.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on August 12, 2015, 08:56:46 pm
The 'retaliation:false' flag only works for the retaliation mission that is automatically generated each month after researching The Martian Threat or after a period of time, depending on the difficulty. It does not work for the retaliation missions that are generated by UFO shoot-downs.

Ah, that's too bad.. I thought this applied to all retaliations :/
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Corsix on August 12, 2015, 09:42:13 pm
You'll still have missions like Terror Sites where you can fight human 'collaborators', which is the present name for MIBs/Cultists/Defected Nations.

Ah yes, forgot about them, you are absolutely right. Should be enough to continue this splendid work on the factions. You can still use the Data Disks from the Item lists to create the lore background about them. And those excellent special missions, like VIP transports could be triggered after the research, relying upon dependancies. Just a reedit of the already well set code.

Would be a way, don't you think ?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 13, 2015, 02:59:19 am
Ah yes, forgot about them, you are absolutely right. Should be enough to continue this splendid work on the factions. You can still use the Data Disks from the Item lists to create the lore background about them. And those excellent special missions, like VIP transports could be triggered after the research, relying upon dependancies. Just a reedit of the already well set code.

Would be a way, don't you think ?

You seem to be more thrilled about the additional factions that I am at the moment. :)

At this point though I'm really more interested in just tying up all the changes and even the lore about the MJ12/MIBs will be scaled down a bit. Before TFTD came out I had new material added to the factions but I started considering that it would be more appropriate for a total conversion otherwise the new faction would start competing with the aliens.

So for now I simply decided to remove the Cultists/MJ12/MIBs and use instead the defected nations as the main human opponents, with a few triggers. Basically the nations who joined the alien side will be conducting anti-XCom operations, either on their own or with the aliens. There will be also some tidbits like the MiBs, who should appear in a few missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: robin on August 13, 2015, 09:43:27 am
Basically the nations who joined the alien side will be conducting anti-XCom operations, either on their own or with the aliens.
How do you do that?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 13, 2015, 05:45:31 pm
How do you do that?

I'm simply using the existing features. Starting on month 1 the aliens will conduct automatic Infiltration missions each month (with a 75% chance of the mission being generated), so by month 3 you should already have a couple defected countries. Around that time those 'collaborators' can also start appearing on missions doing the aliens' dirty work, even if it means attacking their own population.

Add a couple more details and I think the 'collaborators' will fit nicely into the existing lore, instead of having MJ12/MIBs/Cultists as separate factions  and having to invent all sorts of details and explanations about them.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on August 13, 2015, 06:24:02 pm
So instead of making sure collaborators only spawn if some countries have defected, you made sure countries had defected by the time you see the collaborators. Given how players tend to dislike losing countries, that's not nice! Sounds like something hellrazor would do ;)

Nice idea tough! Do you have some pics of the cultists? And any plans for them? I have (long term) plans for a sect faction to run interference along with hybrids as "sort of easy but quirky" missions. If you don't mind sharing the graphics, that would be really nice!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 13, 2015, 06:39:53 pm
So instead of making sure collaborators only spawn if some countries have defected, you made sure countries had defected by the time you see the collaborators. Given how players tend to dislike losing countries, that's not nice! Sounds like something hellrazor would do ;)

Initially I increased the mission frequence because I wanted to give that creeping feel of losing a country and watching your finances take a hit  almost every month. And since there would be all those countries now on the aliens side, it made more sense for them to be present in missions than secret conspiracies or religious cults.

Quote
Nice idea tough! Do you have some pics of the cultists? And any plans for them? I have (long term) plans for a sect faction to run interference along with hybrids as "sort of easy but quirky" missions. If you don't mind sharing the graphics, that would be really nice!

For the collaborators I'm reusing several sprites from the MiB mod (the typical MiB with shades and the ones with gas masks), the sprites from the urban cammo with helmets for the ground troops, and later there will be a Hybrid (from XenoOperations) and a green armored soldier (from Piratez).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on August 13, 2015, 06:44:19 pm
Fair enough! It makes sense in the scope of the game you're making.

I like the idea of the religious cults, sort of the grassroots initiative of the aliens. That's why I was asking if you had graphics for cultists (as in the religious human converts).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 14, 2015, 12:09:50 am
Right now I doubt it because of its size (60x60) and it doesn't fit any of the vanilla missions.

You won't mind me stealing it right :)?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 14, 2015, 12:37:06 am
You won't mind me stealing it right :)?

Not at all, except for the fact that I decided to use a different version than the one in the pic I posted above. Here's the version I'm adapting for OXC.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 19, 2015, 03:40:48 pm
Maybe a stupid question, but there is a last version before the actual (0.5.4) compatible with openxcom 1.0 :/?

Edit: some  2 cents "requests":

1) the vanilla assault rifle may be replaced with a new sprite? I was thinking abput an M4 (since the cultists have the ak47).

2) Machinepistol may be renamed to UZI and use a similar sprite? (There was a mod on the forum, but cannot remembre where, otherwise plese consider to kodify the machine pistol from mib mod)

3) plasmd azsault cannon as an "ordinary" weapon, not only a cidonian one :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 19, 2015, 04:40:26 pm
Maybe a stupid question, but there is a last version before the actual (0.5.4) compatible with openxcom 1.0 :/?

I don't recall if there was ever a version for 1.0 since it would miss several features from the nightlies.

Quote
Edit: some  2 cents "requests":

1) the vanilla assault rifle may be replaced with a new sprite? I was thinking abput an M4 (since the cultists have the ak47).

2) Machinepistol may be renamed to UZI and use a similar sprite? (There was a mod on the forum, but cannot remembre where, otherwise plese consider to kodify the machine pistol from mib mod)

3) plasmd azsault cannon as an "ordinary" weapon, not only a cidonian one :)

1) I'm keeping all of the original sprites. The AK47 will probably be removed in the future since the Cultists have been replaced on the next version.

2) The rule is to keep the generic name rather than a specific weapon. The MiB sprite for the Machine Pistol has a barrel too large for a pistol since it was adapted from the Rifle.

3) Nope. The intention is precisely to be under gunned once you get to Cydonia and face the Plasma Cannons. I don't want to be messing around with the ItemLevels by adding a 4th alien weapon tier that doesn't really add anything new.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 19, 2015, 06:03:31 pm
Ok! My humble advice is:have more original weapon sprites, possibly not featured in any other mod so far. For eg,mas for laser weapons, id chose theLaserReskin Mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2533.0). Or at least replaced the better (researched) laser ones, and eventjally renamed these "improved laser pisto", etc but i stil would make them using clips, named batteries :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 19, 2015, 07:22:33 pm
Not at all, except for the fact that I decided to use a different version than the one in the pic I posted above. Here's the version I'm adapting for OXC.

It looks awesome anyway! WANNA HAVE! *greedy look*

Do you know the original author of it?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 19, 2015, 08:19:27 pm
Do you know the original author of it?

Yes I do know myself quite well :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 20, 2015, 11:01:56 am
Yes I do know myself quite well :)

Then you shall be credited ;)

I guess we could try and retrace some Original Authors of Mods sprites etc..
Because i far example have some Sprites were i weren't able to track down the original creator.
Which is a shame, because he/she deserves credit for his work.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 20, 2015, 05:32:09 pm

1) I'm keeping all of the original sprites. The AK47 will probably be removed in the future since the Cultists have been replaced on the next version.

uh, that saddens me a bit...but whatever! ;) Hey, it's possible to have some anticipations? Also, a bit of stuff from xeno operations mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2913.0)  may be a good choice.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 20, 2015, 08:51:24 pm
uh, that saddens me a bit...but whatever! ;) Hey, it's possible to have some anticipations? Also, a bit of stuff from xeno operations mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2913.0)  may be a good choice.

I'm trying not to add stuff unless there are several good reasons (just being an iconic weapon isn't enough), because I don't want to reproduce the huge weapon sets of other mods. I've already used a lot of material from XOps.

Here's a preview of the Skyranger Factory. I've had to redesign the entire map based on the UFO2000 version, so it's really taking a while.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/XUOBQOWC082020150145.gif)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 20, 2015, 10:40:41 pm
I'm trying not to add stuff unless there are several good reasons (just being an iconic weapon isn't enough), because I don't want to reproduce the huge weapon sets of other mods. I've already used a lot of material from XOps.

Ah sorry, i missed it, that's stated in the firse post! >.< but - as well as - there is missing the addiction of a new faction, whatever will be called; if the latter will still continue to existe in the futher relase, please, may you update the first post? :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: bohb on August 21, 2015, 12:16:50 am
i'm at 7th sep 1999 and i didn't find any misson with other faction, and terror misson. i'm still using regular weapons cause i couldn't research any new.

can you help me, please?
thanks
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 21, 2015, 12:24:57 am
Ah sorry, i missed it, that's stated in the firse post! >.< but - as well as - there is missing the addiction of a new faction, whatever will be called; if the latter will still continue to existe in the futher relase, please, may you update the first post? :)

Yeah, the first post will be updated once I publish the next version, although I'll go through it now since it has been a long time since it was updated.

I may have not been clear but the idea for the next update will be to remove the Cultist/MJ12 'factions', although most of their assets (units, maps) will still be used in the game. In other words, there will be a 'race' of human collaborators and they will perform Terror missions like the aliens, and you may also run into them during the 'Special' missions I'm adding.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 27, 2015, 07:21:11 am
XCom's Red Shirts have arrived...

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/DNOUFLOA082720151220.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 27, 2015, 07:37:36 am
XCom's Red Shirts have arrived...

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/DNOUFLOA082720151220.png)

Armorcolors by rank?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2015, 08:00:37 am
My first thoguht was, "wow, he added engineers and scientists". :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 27, 2015, 02:00:22 pm
My first thoguht was, "wow, he added engineers and scientists". :)

I added civilians to base defense :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 27, 2015, 03:26:52 pm
I added civilians to base defense :)

In what manner the are involved?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 27, 2015, 10:20:39 pm
And today, everyone decided to take a selfie!

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/BSXGBTNU082720150320.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2015, 10:21:20 pm
This deserves to be on some social media so I could give it a +1. 8)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ridаn on August 27, 2015, 10:22:01 pm
Cool stuff.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 27, 2015, 11:09:24 pm
This deserves to be on some social media so I could give it a +1. 8)

I published it on the XCom subreddit as well.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2015, 11:14:58 pm
I published it on the XCom subreddit as well.

I've never been on reddit, but I guess it's something :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 27, 2015, 11:20:38 pm
Cool! Need such a picture with all races together for the Modportal ;>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 27, 2015, 11:30:50 pm
Cool! Need such a picture with all races together for the Modportal ;>

Feel free to use it. I'm going to try to get another one with the XCOM units also on it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 27, 2015, 11:37:39 pm
Feel free to use it. I'm going to try to get another one with the XCOM units also on it.

Na i have other Races. so i need another pciture done by myself :>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 01:40:38 am
Na i have other Races. so i need another pciture done by myself :>

Which other races do you also have in your mod?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 28, 2015, 09:31:09 am
Which other races do you also have in your mod?

Well some are the same, Vanilla Races of course, Waspites, Gazers. I took xOps Sprites and made some Sectoid Elites, then there are Muton Elites and Muton Brain guards. The amount is probably yes, but they are different in the looks.

Actually some of those new civilians look interesting ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 28, 2015, 01:14:20 pm
JUst tryed  0.5.4 with the very latest 2015_08_27, as soo i activated mod and restart, suddenly music stopped playing..and in the ballescape after having changed some options (confir line of fire or somethin cannot remember) once i got again to the battlescape game freezed, had to close the window because i ran it windowed  :'(
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 01:46:39 pm
JUst tryed  0.5.4 with the very latest 2015_08_27, as soo i activated mod and restart, suddenly music stopped playing..and in the ballescape after having changed some options (confir line of fire or somethin cannot remember) once i got again to the battlescape game freezed, had to close the window because i ran it windowed  :'(

The current version of Redux requires nightly 2015_05_07_1716 - you may have issues with later nightlies
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 28, 2015, 05:11:37 pm
The current version of Redux requires nightly 2015_05_07_1716 - you may have issues with later nightlies

Yep, in fact opening the research menu right after beginning a new game...will wait next 0.6 ver hopefully compatible with any newer nightly :)

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 28, 2015, 09:49:38 pm
Yep, in fact opening the research menu right after beginning a new game...will wait next 0.6 ver hopefully compatible with any newer nightly :)

There's no "STR_PLASMA_CANNON_DEP1" research project on Redux, so your picture must be about some other mod.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 28, 2015, 10:48:57 pm
There's no "STR_PLASMA_CANNON_DEP1" research project on Redux, so your picture must be about some other mod.

Sry...made a mess, wel doesn't mind, hoe to give properly a shot to the 0.6 upcoming version :-*
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 29, 2015, 06:51:35 pm
Just updated the first post with all the upcoming 0.6 changes. Here's the section on the new Alien Mission scripting, allow with a brief explanation of the Alien's current master plan for world domination (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Quote
Mission Structure
The Strategic AI that runs the alien missions has add several additions. This is the current setup for Superhuman difficulty:
* Month 0 only - Sectoid Research mission on starting base region
* Month 0 onwards - AI runs Terror mission
* Months 1-9 - AI rolls for Ship mission, 25% chance.
* Month 1 onwards - AI picks randomly from either Research, Base, Harvest or Abductions, each with a 25% chance. If none of those 4 is chosen then an Infiltration mission is initiated.
** If an Infiltration mission is completed, AI performs 3 rolls for 3 additional Infiltration missions, at 75%, 50% and 25%, unless Data Disk 3 is researched.
* Month 2 only - HWP or Skyranger Factory Attack mission generated, allows for recovery of Data Disk 1
* Month 5 only - Area 51 Research Recovery mission generated, essentially to acquire Laser, HWP or Craft research by retrieval of data disks.
* Month 6 onwards - AI runs Overseer mission if Ethereal Commander has not been researched.
** If an Overseer mission completed AI rolls for 1 Terror, 1 Retaliation and 1 Infiltration missions at 50% chance for all. 
* Month 6 onwards - AI runs 1 mission chosen randomly from Research, Base, Harvest, Abductions or Infiltration missions.
* Month 6 onwards - AI runs Retaliation mission (as vanilla)
* Month 7 only - Extraction mission - generated if Data Disk 1 has been acquired and researched, allows for recovery of Data Disk 2
* Month 9 only - Military Base mission generated if Data Disk 1 & 2 have been researched. Allows for recovery of Data Disk 3
* Month 10 onwards - Human Collaborator Attack mission if Data Disk 3 has not been researched

Month 0 hasn't been changed, but in month 1 the aliens essentially decide to invest on Infiltration to start creating divisions on human society and recruit allies, and each pact also generates additional fear among the remaining Council missions.
To reflect this additional fear and help provided by the collaborators, for each Infiltration completed, 1 country becomes terrified (75% chance of an additional Infiltration mission, 1 is panicking (50%) and 1 is anxious (25%), so it is possible to lose 0-3 additional countries. However, this negative trend can be stopped if XCom is able to retrieve intelligence (Data Disks 3) from the Military Base mission to permanently shut down the collaborator assistance to the aliens.
The collaborator nations also provide intelligence to the aliens about Earth's defenses/infrastructure and also create pressure on the remaining Council nations. Their agents and soldiers will help and appear with the aliens on tactical missions. In case the Military Base mission is never generated, they'll even start sending additional attacks against critical facilities.
On month 6 (June) the aliens start deploying the Overseer UFO to coordinate the 2nd phase of the invasion, to weaken the remaining Council countries resolve. Each time the Overseer flies over Earth, there's a 75% chance of an Alien Infiltration, Retaliation and Terror missions are generated, so it can generate 0-3 alien missions. XCom can prevent the monthly generation of the Overseer and those additional missions by interrogating an Ethereal Commander.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 30, 2015, 04:15:10 am
And for today's feature preview, we have the Facility Extraction mission.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/BMYFHQCY082920150913.png)

XCom starts on a building off picture and needs to exit the map through the green zone.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 30, 2015, 10:15:06 am
Wow, great, like xcom: apocalypse!

Hey yesterday i switched back to 2015_05_07_1716 and played for a couple of hours 0.5.4 version at superhuman and by april 1999 i had only encountered 3 ufo, but was very lucky to capture a live aline (a sectoid navigator) :D. I got anyway some questions:

1) 0.5.4. savegames will be compatible with any fither version of the mod?

2) since some of stull are biung quiestionabel (the cultis facion, some weapons ecc) my humble advice would be not to remove them, since it's part of the huge work being done.

3) Also since the mod ha a "real world setting) may be nice to replace vanilla rifle and pistol with each with a couple of real counterparts ones, maybe could be of use some sprites from the kappa weapons mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3918.msg50636.html#msg50636), or taking a look here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2311.msg22988.html#msg22988). Some existing ones may be renamed like stubnose pistol to .357 magnum and so on, machinepistol as mac-10 and so on light machine gun may become FN minimi and so on, ak-47 is the only to have a "real name"; that would make the advanced firearms (heavy and auto cannon) make more sense Warboy1982' combat armor (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1281.0.html) would be also a nice addiction maybe recolored :)

edit: link fixed
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 30, 2015, 07:32:08 pm
1) 0.5.4. savegames will be compatible with any fither version of the mod?

No, 0.5.4 savegames should NOT be compatible with 0.6, unless you're willing to make some heavy editing to the save files (which I don't recommend)

Quote
2) since some of stull are biung quiestionabel (the cultis facion, some weapons ecc) my humble advice would be not to remove them, since it's part of the huge work being done.

I've already removed several repeated weapons but I've kept the RPG, AK-47 and Snubnose pistol. The removed weapons were really redundant and were merely clogging the UFOPedia with entries. The only units removed so far were the apocalyptic cyberpunk units from Piratez since those really didn't fit the style (2 were recycled to serve as civilians though). 

Quote
3) Also since the mod ha a "real world setting) may be nice to replace vanilla rifle and pistol with each with a couple of real counterparts ones, maybe could be of use some sprites from the kappa weapons mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3918.msg50636.html#msg50636), or taking a look here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2311.msg22988.html#msg22988). Some existing ones may be renamed like stubnose pistol to .357 magnum and so on, machinepistol as mac-10 and so on light machine gun may become FN minimi and so on, ak-47 is the only to have a "real name"; that would make the advanced firearms (heavy and auto cannon) make more sense Warboy1982' combat armor (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1281.0.html) would be also a nice addiction maybe recolored :)

This mod does not aim to have a real world setting. Its objective is to expand to existing weapons/units/etc., not replace them and keeping the vanilla values and images. Combat Armor will be included in 0.6, in addition to the Alloy Vest.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on August 30, 2015, 07:36:34 pm
No, 0.5.4 savegames should NOT be compatible with 0.6, unless you're willing to make some heavy editing to the save files (which I don't recommend)
[...]

OK, so gonna stop playing until 0.6 will come out. But every new relase brings incompatibility with saved games of previous ones?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 30, 2015, 08:08:26 pm
OK, so gonna stop playing until 0.6 will come out. But every new relase brings incompatibility with saved games of previous ones?

Usually there's no incompatibility between versions, but there will be so many differences between 0.5.4 and 0.6 that compatibility should be broken.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on August 31, 2015, 06:59:56 pm
Ey Hobbes, mayi ask for what do you need 96 Alien Ranks?
I mean which devlish thing are you breeding out here?

Or is just for another group family picture :>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on August 31, 2015, 07:29:33 pm
Ey Hobbes, mayi ask for what do you need 96 Alien Ranks?
I mean which devlish thing are you breeding out here?

Or is just for another group family picture :>

97 at the moment :)

I use them for testing and for pictures, although I've got a mission with some 30 alien ranks defined since it involves both aliens and hostile humans. I'm not going to use all these units but it's a lot nicer when you can see them ingame before choosing.

A brief status report:
* Units - almost done, some customization required
* Terrains - new maps about 75% done
* Aliens - completed
* Weapons - completed
* Crafts - done
* Missions - still require the maps and units listed above, plus deployments
* Research/Manufacturing/UFOPedia - still to include the new topics
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: raydarken on September 02, 2015, 07:49:09 am
Long time XCOM fan, been playing since I was a kid. Created an account to say thank you Hobbes for all the hard work you've put in to this mod/expansion! It must not be easy, and I wanted to let you know myself and I'm sure many others appreciate your hard work!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 02, 2015, 11:14:09 pm
Long time XCOM fan, been playing since I was a kid. Created an account to say thank you Hobbes for all the hard work you've put in to this mod/expansion! It must not be easy, and I wanted to let you know myself and I'm sure many others appreciate your hard work!

Thanks for the kind message, hope you keep enjoying the game :)

@all

New maps are around 95% done. Here's a sneak preview of the upcoming HWP and Skyranger factories

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/AWHCKXII090220150411.gif)
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/DEUSIJEB090220150412.gif)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: XOps on September 03, 2015, 03:37:52 am
Looking good. Glad redux is near an update. I'm interested to see what you did with mission scripting. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 03, 2015, 01:58:20 pm
Looking good. Glad redux is near an update. I'm interested to see what you did with mission scripting. :)

I posted a description of the changes on a post (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3328.msg50790.html#msg50790) on the previous page. In brief, if you don't take certain missions and recover data, the aliens have a high probability of launching additional missions. And lasers (and some new craft and HWP upgrades) can only be researched if you take the Area 51 mission. I haven't playtested anything yet so this might suffer some adjustments but the idea sounds balanced on paper.

What I'm really curious about will be the new aliens and the mixed races combinations. Your Overlords can now appear on these Mixed races instead of only by themselves as in the previous versions, and there's a new race called Phasers which can only be killed through fire, it is very hard to hit with direct shots and has a HE ranged attack. Face an alien crew with both present without AP or IN ammo and it will be impossible to win.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 03, 2015, 03:03:56 pm
OMG!
I need those Maps right now! The look so AWESOME!
I can't wait for the next release for *plundering*. (Might be impolity but Hobbes stuff is so good that i need it so desperatly).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 03, 2015, 03:19:47 pm
I can't wait for the next release for *plundering*. (Might be impolity but Hobbes stuff is so good that i need it so desperatly).

I've recently had this discussion on the #irc channel: imitation is the biggest compliment, specially if you're in an open source project, as long as you give the proper credit to the authors (it's also polite to ask for permission, but really not needed if you give credit).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 03, 2015, 07:47:20 pm
The nice thing about having a lot of assets is trying out their different combinations:

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/MVUYWVEL090320150143.png)

This is an idea for Facility Defense mission: player starts on the 20x20 central building, aliens start on the outer rim buildings and road. There's no exit area for XCom so on this mission will be a fight to the death of either side.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 03, 2015, 09:46:14 pm
I've recently had this discussion on the #irc channel: imitation is the biggest compliment, specially if you're in an open source project, as long as you give the proper credit to the authors (it's also polite to ask for permission, but really not needed if you give credit).

Hobbes i didn't wanted to be rude or so, its just those look so damn good.
The nice thing about having a lot of assets is trying out their different combinations:

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/MVUYWVEL090320150143.png)

This is an idea for Facility Defense mission: player starts on the 20x20 central building, aliens start on the outer rim buildings and road. There's no exit area for XCom so on this mission will be a fight to the death of either side.

Thats a really good idea, i would like to put something like this into my mod for sure, it sounds like a mission i could use to let the Player get the Alien Dataslate.
But it would need another mission to get into this position first. I mean how did X-Com get there and why? You can not simply put the player in a position like this without him knowing how he got there.

EDIT: Something else what i just noticed, stairs would be cool, having access to the roof on the building and the tower, could give you high ground. It's a tactical good position.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 03, 2015, 09:53:52 pm
Thats a really good idea, i would like to put something like this into my mod for sure, it sounds like a mission i could use to let the Player get the Alien Dataslate.
But it would need another mission to get into this position first. I mean how did X-Com get there and why? You can not simply put the player in a position like this without him knowing how he got there.
Maybe put some stairs that you exit on the roof and have high ground?


      STR_FACILITY_DEFENSE_BRIEFING: XCom agents have discovered intelligence regarding an eminent alien attack. Your squad has deployed to defend the facility from the incoming raiders who have surrounded it. Defend this vital installations at all costs - this is a fight to the death. If you click on the 'abort mission' icon you will concede defeat and lose the facility and all your units deployed.

There will be several buildings to defend, I've only used the one in the image since it's the only building who has XCom spawn points defined.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Meridian on September 03, 2015, 11:22:26 pm
I'm not sure, but I think you meant to say "imminent" instead of "eminent". I saw this same word also yesterday in your book (yes, after 1 month of reading I am still only at page 260, shame on me). I don't know exactly what "eminent" means, but google's explanation doesn't fit to what I think you were trying to say ;-)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 03, 2015, 11:24:56 pm
I'm not sure, but I think you meant to say "imminent" instead of "eminent". I saw this same word also yesterday in your book (yes, after 1 month of reading I am still only at page 260, shame on me). I don't know exactly what "eminent" means, but google's explanation doesn't fit to what I think you were trying to say ;-)

I guess he meant so.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 04, 2015, 02:57:47 am
I'm not sure, but I think you meant to say "imminent" instead of "eminent". I saw this same word also yesterday in your book (yes, after 1 month of reading I am still only at page 260, shame on me). I don't know exactly what "eminent" means, but google's explanation doesn't fit to what I think you were trying to say ;-)

Thanks, I just quickly made up that entry and I meant to write imminent rather than eminent :)

eminent - 1. (of a person) famous and respected within a particular sphere. 2. (of a positive quality) present to a notable degree.

imminent - about to happen.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 04, 2015, 05:37:56 pm
Winter is coming

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZDLDFLWD090420151037.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: begri on September 04, 2015, 05:43:42 pm
Winter is coming

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZDLDFLWD090420151037.png)
Sandbags on the roof and the towers as well and if you have enough time :) put outsider bunkers and connect them with tunels to the main building. :D

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 06, 2015, 05:09:40 am
Spent the last days finishing and testing the Facility Defense mission. It should be a refreshing change, here's a pic of Mutons entering the facility while on patrol mode.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/YUXDTFDF090520151006.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 06, 2015, 08:05:20 pm
Hey, while we all wait openxcom 2.0 to be relased, may ufo redux come with the needed nightly included in one single downalod, that is to say include it in the mod?

That would be a nice advantage for the less experienced audience, like me.

Edit: And any ETA info about the relase of the 0.6 verison, by the end of september 2015 or later?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 06, 2015, 09:15:19 pm
Hey, while we all wait openxcom 2.0 to be relased, may ufo redux come with the needed nightly included in one single downalod, that is to say include it in the mod?

That would be a nice advantage for the less experienced audience, like me.

At this stage it is better to regularly upgrade your nightly to the latest release since it's bug fixing time.

Quote
Edit: And any ETA info about the relase of the 0.6 verison, by the end of september 2015 or later?

A week? Less? Right now I'm finished implementing the new alien missions, then i need to update the research/manufacturing/UFOpedia. My problem right now is fixing what is necessary and not adding anything else at this point, but I really can get distracted :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 10, 2015, 02:17:43 am
Just to inform that I've just updated the first post of this thread with all of the upcoming changes for version 0.7 (0.6 designation wasn't sexy enough, 0.7 is much better) since the implementation phase has been completed and the testing phase starts today :)

So, expect a release in the next couple of days as soon as I finish my playtesting and fix the most obvious bugs :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 11, 2015, 07:37:53 am
Thin Men?

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/XQMLHFOT091120151237.png)

Thin Men and Snakemen?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/screen025.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 11, 2015, 12:06:58 pm
I don't think these are thin :) hey, can't wait for the newer redux versions!!!!<3
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 11, 2015, 12:17:06 pm
I can't wait to integrate some of the awesome stuff from Hobbes into my Mod, mainly some of the Missions, all the new Civilians
and maybe get some inspiration for my Human Collaborator faction.

Of course i will only do so if i have Hobbes permission for using his stuff, and will give proper Credit!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 11, 2015, 06:08:58 pm
I don't think these are thin :) hey, can't wait for the newer redux versions!!!!<3

Yeah I just edited the torso and the head of the MIB Agent with the Thin Man sprite that Neoworm posted here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2732.0.html)(too bad he never finished it) but changing the arms/legs to make them thinner is currently beyond my graphic skills.

I can't wait to integrate some of the awesome stuff from Hobbes into my Mod, mainly some of the Missions, all the new Civilians
and maybe get some inspiration for my Human Collaborator faction.

Of course i will only do so if i have Hobbes permission for using his stuff, and will give proper Credit!

All resources are free to use and I encourage everyone to do so. Most of the new stuff is already taken and adapted from other mods :)

I still need to implement this new unit, although I had an idea for a new mission that might do nicely. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 11, 2015, 06:44:32 pm
Yeah I just edited the torso and the head of the MIB Agent with the Thin Man sprite that Neoworm posted here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2732.0.html)(too bad he never finished it) but changing the arms/legs to make them thinner is currently beyond my graphic skills.

All resources are free to use and I encourage everyone to do so. Most of the new stuff is already taken and adapted from other mods :)

I still need to implement this new unit, although I had an idea for a new mission that might do nicely. :)

Glad to here that,
the stuff you adapted from other Mods, do you have a list of the original creators? Since i like to give credit to those people also.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 12, 2015, 07:09:51 pm
Glad to here that,
the stuff you adapted from other Mods, do you have a list of the original creators? Since i like to give credit to those people also.

I have a list of mods I've used but to list every single item I've copied and/or adapted would be too much work.

@all

I'm going to release a beta version of Redux later today when I finish some testing. It will not be complete but I need to focus now on playtesting and bug fixing rather than to add new features like I've been doing in the past days.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 12, 2015, 08:59:00 pm
.

@all

I'm going to release a beta version of Redux later today when I finish some testing. It will not be complete but I need to focus now on playtesting and bug fixing rather than to add new features like I've been doing in the past days.

hurraaà!!! Completely agree: i hope the relase rate  from 0.7 and onward will be very very slow, better wait then have game crashing or a bugfest!!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 06:27:43 am
(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/RIECOKEE091220151132.png)

UFO Redux version 0.7 BETA has been released at the mod portal (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)

The secret invasion has begun!

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/TSYRVTEC091320151210.png)

The aliens have stepped up their covert operations on Earth, sending teams of their agents to infiltrate and support the UFO activities on the ground. Fleets of alien craft attack the planet's defense, transport, manufacturing and research facilities that support the Earth's armed forces, targeted by alien covert teams who also work in subverting the individual countries of the Council. The aliens also include new species, weapons and units.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/USEPEAFM091220151159.png)

To deal with this new threat, XCom now finds itself equipped with new weapons, crafts and HWPs. However, unlocking the secrets of advanced tech now require assistance of an alien captive or recovering specific items from missions.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/ZQFGXBML091320151203.png)

New mission types have been added such as Ship Assault (to disable its navigation), HWP/Skyranger factories, Facility Defense, Research Recovery, Capture and others. Unique missions will also give XCom the possibility of slowing down the alien invasion until it is possible to capture the Ethereal Commander required to send the Avenger to Cydonia.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/PVRGWUVG091220151142.png)

Expect bugs and playtesting required. And there's some unit images still unfinished (anyone could help with those?) and other minor details like more new maps and terrains.

More images of the new features available at the mod portal (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux) For a detailed list of changes of version 0.7 check the first posts (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3328.msg38189.html#msg38189) of this thread.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 13, 2015, 11:27:17 am
Great! I have latest nightly, but i'd like to give a try! :) hey changelog on the mod portal still is up to 0.5.4
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 13, 2015, 12:26:56 pm
Played for 15 days in jan 1999, on nigthy 2015_09_12_0815, semmes ok so far, but occours a strange thing  i already seen in the Raider'sHardmode mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3245.msg50766.html#msg50766):  if the option Storage limits for recovered mission on the advanced tab is activated, i won't be able after i finish a mission to sell anything because buttons are missing. I think it is a nightly bug, not a mod one.

Shots attached

Edit: sry wrong "timing" :(

Edit 2: also recovered plasma pistol and plasma rifle in a very initial mission but i'm not able to research them. Plus the grenade bullet sprite for the grenade launcher is not shown though it is considered present in the inventory, in the equipment troops screen. Stoppin playn redux, again :(

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: MickTheMage on September 13, 2015, 02:34:29 pm
If you will need Thinman autopsy ufopaedia image (https://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/615050604169545923/A796D0143CD57E6B8841C62693F8B72FCB15B076/), you can use these (if you don't have something better :)) The thinman itself si from the XCOM 2012 promo images.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 13, 2015, 03:21:50 pm
Hi Hobbes,
i took the freedom  and reworked your terrain definitions a litt el bit,
using the magic of YAML anchors i was able to greatly reduce the size of your terrain definition,
they should provide you with the same functionality.

(I today was reworking my Alien Deployments, using YAML anchors, i was able to reduce the size of this section, from ~5300 lines to 1580 lines, with the same functionality!)

A YAML anchor definition is relativly easy to make:
Code: [Select]
#BEGIN MEDIUM SCOUT
  - type: STR_MEDIUM_SCOUT
    data: &MEDIUM_SCOUT_SETS
      - alienRank: 9
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 0
        percentageOutsideUfo: 60
...(lines removed for better readability)
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_SHOTGUN
            - STR_PLASMA_SHOTGUN_ELERIUM_CLIP
            - STR_ALIEN_GRENADE
    width: 40
    length: 40
    height: 8
#END MEDIUM SCOUT

#BEGIN FIGHTER
  - type: STR_FIGHTER_SHIP
    data: *MEDIUM_SCOUT_SETS
    width: 40
    length: 40
    height: 8
#END FIGHTER
As you can see i am creating a YAML anchors behind "data:" with "&NameOfTheAnchor"
and are using it in the other UFO deployments definition with "*NameOfTheAnchor", it then basically pulls in the complete section of "data:"
i also used for Rank Itemset etc... really handy.

See attached file for modified terrain definitions for UFO Redux (only replaced duplicates with anchors :))

I am gonna go experiment a litt el bit further with this to make my terraindefinitions smaller ;>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 13, 2015, 03:28:02 pm
complex26.map is writtenin LOWERCASE instead of required UPPERCASE.

Please recheck your Map and Route filesname.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 04:11:41 pm
Great! I have latest nightly, but i'd like to give a try! :) hey changelog on the mod portal still is up to 0.5.4

Unless you're seeing any reference to 0.5.4 elsewhere, the changelog on the portal is updated :)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/ChangeLog.png)


I think it is a nightly bug, not a mod one.

Or a bug related to that mod itself.

Quote
Edit 2: also recovered plasma pistol and plasma rifle in a very initial mission but i'm not able to research them.

Please read the list of changes (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3328.msg38191.html#msg38191) before reporting features as bugs.

Quote
Plus the grenade bullet sprite for the grenade launcher is not shown though it is considered present in the inventory, in the equipment troops screen. Stoppin playn redux, again :(

What do you mean about the grenade launcher? I can see it fine on the craft equip and soldier equip screens.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Grenade2.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Grenade1.png)

If you will need Thinman autopsy ufopaedia image (https://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/615050604169545923/A796D0143CD57E6B8841C62693F8B72FCB15B076/), you can use these (if you don't have something better :)) The thinman itself si from the XCOM 2012 promo images.

Thanks for the offer but the image needs some work to adapt it to the sprite (or the other way around)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/thinman.png)

I'll try to work on those images to see if I can make them closer to what I want. :)

Hi Hobbes,
i took the freedom  and reworked your terrain definitions a litt el bit,
using the magic of YAML anchors i was able to greatly reduce the size of your terrain definition,
they should provide you with the same functionality.

Very interesting, thank you. I'll look into this later since it might be useful for other sections.

complex26.map is writtenin LOWERCASE instead of required UPPERCASE.

Please recheck your Map and Route filesname.

You can delete complex26.map
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 13, 2015, 04:42:59 pm
[...]

What do you mean about the grenade launcher? I can see it fine on the craft equip and soldier equip screens.
(https://https:/ /dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Grenade2.png)

In the first case, grenade bullet place is displayed as empti, but hovering cursor over that spot and clicking  i actually can select it :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 05:04:19 pm
In the first case, grenade bullet place is displayed as empti, but hovering cursor over that spot and clicking  i actually can select it :)

That's a graphic issue - the problem is not with the grenade itself but with an object standing right next to its left. Usually if you move that item around it will make invisible other items. Can you detect which object it was?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 13, 2015, 05:16:30 pm
Hobbes, you are missing some Naming strings for Soldiers.
Also one of the Mission, has missing ItemSets in the Deployments.

The Capture Mission in particular.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 05:22:59 pm
Also one of the Mission, has missing ItemSets in the Deployments.

The Capture Mission in particular.

Looks fine to me:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_CAPTURE_MISSION
    data:
      - alienRank: 5
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 20
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_MULTI_LAUNCHER
            - STR_ROCKET_PACK
            - STR_ROCKET_PACK
          -
            - STR_MULTI_LAUNCHER
            - STR_ROCKET_PACK
            - STR_ROCKET_PACK
          -
            - STR_MULTI_LAUNCHER
            - STR_ROCKET_PACK
            - STR_ROCKET_PACK
      - alienRank: 4
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 20
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_MINIGUN
            - STR_MINIGUN_AMMO
            - STR_MINIGUN_AMMO
          -
            - STR_MINIGUN
            - STR_MINIGUN_AMMO
            - STR_MINIGUN_AMMO
          -
            - STR_MINIGUN
            - STR_MINIGUN_AMMO
            - STR_MINIGUN_AMMO
      - alienRank: 3
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 2
        percentageOutsideUfo: 0
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
      - alienRank: 2
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 2
        percentageOutsideUfo: 0
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
      - alienRank: 1
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 1
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 0
        itemSets:
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_RIFLE
            - STR_PLASMA_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_RIFLE_CLIP
          -
            - STR_HEAVY_PLASMA
            - STR_HEAVY_PLASMA_CLIP
            - STR_HEAVY_PLASMA_CLIP
      - alienRank: 0
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 1
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 0
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_PLASMA_RIFLE
            - STR_PLASMA_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_PLASMA_RIFLE_CLIP
          -
            - STR_HEAVY_PLASMA
            - STR_HEAVY_PLASMA_CLIP
            - STR_HEAVY_PLASMA_CLIP
      - alienRank: 6
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 70
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
          -
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
          -
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
      - alienRank: 7
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 50
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_RIFLE
            - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
          -
            - STR_RIFLE
            - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
          -
            - STR_RIFLE
            - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
            - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
      - alienRank: 8
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 50
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_LMG
            - STR_LMG_BELT
            - STR_LMG_BELT
          -
            - STR_LMG
            - STR_LMG_BELT
            - STR_LMG_BELT
          -
            - STR_LMG
            - STR_LMG_BELT
            - STR_LMG_BELT
      - alienRank: 9
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 20
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_SHOTGUN
            - STR_SHOTGUN_AMMO
            - STR_SHOTGUN_AMMO
          -
            - STR_SHOTGUN
            - STR_SHOTGUN_AMMO
            - STR_SHOTGUN_AMMO
          -
            - STR_SHOTGUN
            - STR_SHOTGUN_AMMO
            - STR_SHOTGUN_AMMO
      - alienRank: 10
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 50
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
      - alienRank: 11
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 50
        itemSets:
          -
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
          -
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
            - STR_MACHINE_PISTOL_CLIP
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 13, 2015, 05:32:13 pm
That's a graphic issue - the problem is not with the grenade itself but with an object standing right next to its left. Usually if you move that item around it will make invisible other items. Can you detect which object it was?

no cannot remember...but with the nightly i used (see above) in a terror misison there was in battlescape a pool of water right in the middle of a building! But there's always the damn nightly compatibility problem, arrgghh!! :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 05:58:58 pm
no cannot remember...but with the nightly i used (see above) in a terror misison there was in battlescape a pool of water right in the middle of a building! But there's always the damn nightly compatibility problem, arrgghh!! :)

Fixed it, thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 13, 2015, 06:50:05 pm
Fixed it, thanks.

Youre're welcome. Forgot to say that i occured on a terror port type, from TFTD :)

As for the grenade bullet bug, sprite is not displayed, but it is considered present by the game, if i click on it, here's a more explicative screenshot i think ;) the arrow point where the grenade effectively is.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 07:05:34 pm
Youre're welcome. Forgot to say that i occured on a terror port type, from TFTD :)

As for the grenade bullet bug, sprite is not displayed, but it is considered present by the game, if i click on it, here's a more explicative screenshot i think ;) the arrow point where the grenade effectively is.

The problem was the transparency for the BigObs images of the Heavy Laser Clip and the HE and Smoke ammo for the Grenade Launcher.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 13, 2015, 07:31:47 pm
Got a crash on terror mission. The same deal as with 0.5.4 and Omega Facility. Clicked yes once skyranger landed and CTD. Don't have a save but will try to make one before terror mission.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 07:58:36 pm
Got a crash on terror mission. The same deal as with 0.5.4 and Omega Facility. Clicked yes once skyranger landed and CTD. Don't have a save but will try to make one before terror mission.

Without a save not much I can do since Terror Missions are working at my end.

EDIT: just updated the .zip with some minor fixes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 13, 2015, 09:33:26 pm
Skyranger factory mission doesn't switch music from briefing to tactical. Save attached in case.

Also it was called Port Attack despite being deep in land. Maybe call it Alien Activity just like in TFTD? If you can that is.  Although reloading now it says a Alien attack on some place.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 10:00:36 pm
Skyranger factory mission doesn't switch music from briefing to tactical. Save attached in case.

Your sound issues might be related to your OXC installation and your computer settings since the music is working fine on my end. Are you using Linux by chance?

Quote
Also it was called Port Attack despite being deep in land. Maybe call it Alien Activity just like in TFTD? If you can that is.  Although reloading now it says a Alien attack on some place.

Everything is working fine for me on the save.

The pop-up for Port says: ALIENS LAUNCH{NEWLINE}PORT ATTACK AT
The pop-up for Skyranger Factory says: ALIENS LAUNCH{NEWLINE}ATTACK AT

Port Attacks should only take place in coastal cities and islands. If it happens in deep land then there's a bug. "Alien Activity" is already used as a pop up to another mission :)

EDIT: I think I found the CTD you were talking about before.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 13, 2015, 11:07:19 pm
Hey, on superhuman in the very beginnig of the game got my first crash site into an urban map, never saw it :) It is a bug or what?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 13, 2015, 11:14:47 pm
Your sound issues might be related to your OXC installation and your computer settings since the music is working fine on my end. Are you using Linux by chance?

Everything is working fine for me on the save.

Can't accept this answer. Why is every other mission working fine, but not this one? If every other mission had this issue I would agree, but this is different case.
You would have to come out with more detailed information, what's wrong with my OXC installation. You can't install it wrongly using the normal installer.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 11:15:59 pm
Hey, on superhuman in the very beginnig of the game got my first crash site into an urban map, never saw it :) It is a bug or what?

Nope, it's a feature. UFO missions in heavily populated areas now have a chance of being generated on city maps :)

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 13, 2015, 11:25:56 pm
Can't accept this answer. Why is every other mission working fine, but not this one? If every other mission had this issue I would agree, but this is different case.
You would have to come out with more detailed information, what's wrong with my OXC installation. You can't install it wrongly using the normal installer.

Open the /mods/UFO Redux/Resources/Music folder on your OpenXcom user directory and check to see if THEYAREHERE.OGG file is there. If it is and you can play it on your computer, then I have no idea of why it doesn't play on your installation of OXC, if you got the latest nightly installed.

EDIT: Uploaded the fix for the CTD you experienced (at least I hope that was the source of the crash)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 13, 2015, 11:51:48 pm
Well now I had it there, but I had to copy it to UFO/sound and now it plays on this mission.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 12:40:36 am
Well now I had it there, but I had to copy it to UFO/sound and now it plays on this mission.

You were right - I also had the sound file on UFO/SOUND and that's why it is working fine at my end. I'll need to remove the music since it requires to be present on that folder.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: VSx86 on September 14, 2015, 01:58:11 am

* Extra hangar & Darkstar craft.
* Alien Containment added to starting base
* Several of the new XCom weapons added to the Skyranger's inventory.

All of this isn't appear ingame, and even not found in mod's ruleset files.


ufo-redux-0.7-sprites

Check and verify weapon, ammo, and other sprites' with transparent backgrounds.


ufo-redux-0.7-first-alien-activity

Crash to desktop after closing this message.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 03:54:16 am

* Extra hangar & Darkstar craft.
* Alien Containment added to starting base
* Several of the new XCom weapons added to the Skyranger's inventory.

All of this isn't appear ingame, and even not found in mod's ruleset files.

Fixed.

Quote
Check and verify weapon, ammo, and other sprites' with transparent backgrounds.

Fixed

Quote
ufo-redux-0.7-first-alien-activity

Crash to desktop after closing this message.

And fixed, thank you very much for the reports.

I'm uploading the fixes to the .zip file right now.

It also includes more fixes and a new feature: Terror Missions, Facility Defense, Facility Extraction and Liaison Base missions now have customized terrain depending on their world localization. This means for instance that terror sites on the arctic will take place in snow covered cities and no more palm trees appearing in cold locations.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 14, 2015, 09:23:00 am
I forgot to mention. Those stairs lead to nowhere. There is a wall on the end so walking up is pointless. Either remove the stairs or the wall above
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 14, 2015, 12:39:32 pm
I forgot to mention. Those stairs lead to nowhere. There is a wall on the end so walking up is pointless. Either remove the stairs or the wall above

hey may be that they did not finish the building...you see corruption.... :o eh... kinda joke!  ;D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 14, 2015, 02:05:07 pm
I am gonna take alook at this later in the evening since i am interest on adding terrainsdefinitions and such towards my mod.

I hopeyou had no troubles with YAML anchors i mentioned Hobbes.
Did they help a little bit? (didn't had time to check your new Ruleset yet)

And something else, i saw on one of your custom misions Hobbes a turned Skyranger Craft.
Could we somehow utilize this and even add further rotations towards the craft? So we do not always have to exit north :D?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 04:05:25 pm
I forgot to mention. Those stairs lead to nowhere. There is a wall on the end so walking up is pointless. Either remove the stairs or the wall above

Will post a fix later. Thanks :)

I am gonna take alook at this later in the evening since i am interest on adding terrainsdefinitions and such towards my mod.

I hopeyou had no troubles with YAML anchors i mentioned Hobbes.
Did they help a little bit? (didn't had time to check your new Ruleset yet)

And something else, i saw on one of your custom misions Hobbes a turned Skyranger Craft.
Could we somehow utilize this and even add further rotations towards the craft? So we do not always have to exit north :D?

I've implemented the YAML anchors on the terrains and alien deployments and if I could use them elsewhere I would, thanks :)

The rotated Skyranger was done by rotating the sprites and creating an entire new terrain and MCD files. There's a LoS bug with it however that allows you to see the inside of the craft. If you want to use it for deployment you'd have to create a specific craft or find a way to have more than 1 map assigned to craft.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 14, 2015, 06:17:25 pm
Fixed.

Fixed

And fixed, thank you very much for the reports.

I'm uploading the fixes to the .zip file right now.

It also includes more fixes and a new feature: Terror Missions, Facility Defense, Facility Extraction and Liaison Base missions now have customized terrain depending on their world localization. This means for instance that terror sites on the arctic will take place in snow covered cities and no more palm trees appearing in cold locations.

I've downloaded latest zip and I think there is no Alien Containment on start.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 07:00:58 pm
I've downloaded latest zip and I think there is no Alien Containment on start.

Oh, the Alien Containment at start was removed some time ago since that wasn't needed anymore at start.

EDIT - Description on the initial posts updated with latest changes.

Alrighty, there's should be still plenty of testing and bug fixing but here's also a list of 'to do' things.

* Design more maps for the Alien Subversion (capture) and Alien Facility Attack missions.
* Reduce size of some maps to 60x60 to make shorter fights.
* Redesign the Thin Man to make it look more like the EU2012 version. Images for the UFOPedia would be nice too but I won't add them unless they have enough quality. I've worked a bit on it yesterday and recolored since has a dark blue suit on EU2012 rather than a black one.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Thin%20Man.png)
 
* Design at least the FloorObs to all the new units (aliens & civilians) that are missing them.
* Design at least a female Alien Agent. Female Human Agents would be nice too.
* Add more female civilian units to complement the 26 male civilians in suits.
* Add more color variations of all civilian units.
* Redo some weapon HandOb sprites.
* Redo the Skyrider and add landing wheels/pads

If anyone wants to help, I specifically could use a hand with the sprites since they are so time consuming and my skills are limited on that matter.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 14, 2015, 08:28:29 pm
I'm not sure if the wasps are balanced right in armour and or hp and or resistances. I'm using TFTD damage formula so with even the 50% damage I've hit it with shotgun point blank and it lived. I'm not sure that if the wasp is op or the shotgun up. I mean you can't take shotgun point blank to the face and live right? And yes all the pellets hit.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 08:45:52 pm
I'm not sure if the wasps are balanced right in armour and or hp and or resistances. I'm using TFTD damage formula so with even the 50% damage I've hit it with shotgun point blank and it lived. I'm not sure that if the wasp is op or the shotgun up. I mean you can't take shotgun point blank to the face and live right? And yes all the pellets hit.

Waspite basic stats are:
Code: [Select]
    frontArmor: 20
    sideArmor: 14
    rearArmor: 16
    underArmor: 20
    health: 40

Each shotgun pellet has a damage rating of 15, so each pellet dealt 10-20 damage. Unless you hit the Waspite on its side or rear the shotgun's pellets simply failed to breach its armor. If you had the UFO damage instead of TFTD the damage range would be between 15 and 25 so you'd have a change of inflicting damage on it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 14, 2015, 08:58:52 pm
Isn't UFO damage 0-200 and TFTD 50-150 ? So the shotgun is only worth on sectoids and floaters and nothing else.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 09:40:51 pm
Isn't UFO damage 0-200 and TFTD 50-150 ? So the shotgun is only worth on sectoids and floaters and nothing else.

If you play with TFTD damage, yes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 14, 2015, 10:32:04 pm
Got a CTD on Mind Control. When my soldier with Sniper rifle moved one tile, CTD. Save attached. Why it had to be sectoid leader  :'(

Edit.

No it's not MC fault. It's this tile that causes CTD. And I think any tile close to the building.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 14, 2015, 11:00:16 pm
No it's not MC fault. It's this tile that causes CTD. And I think any tile close to the building.

Here's a quick fix: just copy the file to /mods/UFO Redux/TERRAIN and replace the existing files there with the ones on the zip.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 14, 2015, 11:07:20 pm
Ok it works fine now. Thanks.

By the way. If I want to change tactical music during base defense, what should I change?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 15, 2015, 03:18:37 am
Ok it works fine now. Thanks.

By the way. If I want to change tactical music during base defense, what should I change?

The way I was adding the THEYAREHERE was through the alienDeployment section of the ruleset. Open it, go for the entry to Base Defense and add change:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_BASE_DEFENSE
    music:
      - THEYAREHERE
and you'll also need to add an additional separate ruleset with the following:
Code: [Select]
musics:
  - type:   THEYAREHERE
    normalization: 1.00
And then place the music files on the /SOUND folder.

Or you can simply rename your musics to TACTICAL1 and 2 and replace the files with the same name on /SOUND
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 15, 2015, 11:34:47 pm
Stairs with invisible forcefield. Yes you cannot fire up very close. And bad spawning point. Alien could not move, not to mention multi launcher could not devastate back wall. I'm seeing that your maps makes wall with indestructobellum
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: VSx86 on September 16, 2015, 12:50:51 am
Hi.

This error appears in updated 0.7 version.
Nightly is 2015_09_15_0056.

You may check my saved game to test it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 16, 2015, 02:17:46 am
Stairs with invisible forcefield. Yes you cannot fire up very close. And bad spawning point. Alien could not move, not to mention multi launcher could not devastate back wall. I'm seeing that your maps makes wall with indestructobellum

OK, bad spawning point and the blue square map I've just fixed. About the forcefield, the large blocks next to the rail line (where the stairs lead to) block sight and line of fire since they occupy the entire 'square' up to the top, although it may not look so.

As for the indestructible wall, blame TFTD, I'm using their terrain tilesets (this map is a variation of Port) and haven't changed any of the armor values. :)

Thanks for the reports! :)

Hi.

This error appears in updated 0.7 version.
Nightly is 2015_09_15_0056.

You may check my saved game to test it.

Fixed, thanks for the notice. :)

@all
I'm working on some more adjustments, I'll release the updated version in a couple of hours.

EDIT: Version 0.7.1 uploaded to the mod portal.
* Fixed all of the reported bugs on the previous posts
* Started designing the missing FloorOb images for the new units
* Redid the missionScript to make it simpler since it wasn't running as intended. Removed Alien Agents since they're essentially redundant and also to simplify the missions.

My major concern at the moment is the balance of the new missions, specially those that involve very large maps like 70x70 (Subversion), 80x80 (Area 51), 100x100 (Liaison Base), or 100x60 (Facility Extraction and Alien Hive). In all of them you can get what you need without having to kill all the aliens (although the game will count it as a mission not successful), so you don't have to explore/clear the whole map, but I'd like to hear other people's experiences with those maps.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 16, 2015, 10:02:19 am
OK, bad spawning point and the blue square map I've just fixed. About the forcefield, the large blocks next to the rail line (where the stairs lead to) block sight and line of fire since they occupy the entire 'square' up to the top, although it may not look so.

As for the indestructible wall, blame TFTD, I'm using their terrain tilesets (this map is a variation of Port) and haven't changed any of the armor values. :)

The Armor values are fine, the bigger trouble is that sometimes DIEmcd asignments are towards itself, so the Maptiles becomes completly indistructable, like the Skyranger. And this is honstly something i will 'fix' for my own Mod, since firing Blaster Launcher at a pile of tires, should vaporize them.


EDIT: Version 0.7.1 uploaded to the mod portal.
* Fixed all of the reported bugs on the previous posts
* Started designing the missing FloorOb images for the new units
* Redid the missionScript to make it simpler since it wasn't running as intended. Removed Alien Agents since they're essentially redundant and also to simplify the missions.

My major concern at the moment is the balance of the new missions, specially those that involve very large maps like 70x70 (Subversion), 80x80 (Area 51), 100x100 (Liaison Base), or 100x60 (Facility Extraction and Alien Hive). In all of them you can get what you need without having to kill all the aliens (although the game will count it as a mission not successful), so you don't have to explore/clear the whole map, but I'd like to hear other people's experiences with those maps.

First Suggestion:
I think you should reserve the bigger Mapsize like 100x100 for Missions which only occur once in the game.
And for the Extraction Mission, maybe make 80x40 so it is more streamlined and matches more the escaping paradim you wanna create, it should be possible to 'guide' the aliens towards the player exist site, or let them spawn ner there to have some you need to kill.

A mapsize of 80x80 i also would consider ok, but only if you split it up into two sections, ah main fighting area 60x60, which is surrounded by only fence tiles for example.

Second Suggestion:
An alternative suggestion is, let 100x100 maps only occur on Cydonia, or in 1 Mission on Earth (a mission to retrieve something to unlock Cydoniaresearch or so).
Convert all Mission which are currently 100x100 into 80x80, with a main area of 60x60 and enclosed with fences/bunker/street tiles.
Make all Mission which are currently 80x80 into 70x70, with a main fighting area of 50x50 andalso enclosed with fence,street,bunker tiles.

Well just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 16, 2015, 09:20:08 pm
The Armor values are fine, the bigger trouble is that sometimes DIEmcd asignments are towards itself, so the Maptiles becomes completly indistructable, like the Skyranger. And this is honstly something i will 'fix' for my own Mod, since firing Blaster Launcher at a pile of tires, should vaporize them.

One of the issues of EU is over abuse of explosives by the player, and this is one reason why I like TFTD's Port so much. And if a pile of tires doesn't get vaporized, so what? The upper levels of buildings also should fall down if you vaporize the ground level but they don't :)

Quote
First Suggestion:
I think you should reserve the bigger Mapsize like 100x100 for Missions which only occur once in the game.
And for the Extraction Mission, maybe make 80x40 so it is more streamlined and matches more the escaping paradim you wanna create, it should be possible to 'guide' the aliens towards the player exist site, or let them spawn ner there to have some you need to kill.

Yeah, agreed, I was already considering reducing the size for those dimensions.

Quote
A mapsize of 80x80 i also would consider ok, but only if you split it up into two sections, ah main fighting area 60x60, which is surrounded by only fence tiles for example.

This is already implemented for the Facility Defense missions.

Quote
Second Suggestion:
An alternative suggestion is, let 100x100 maps only occur on Cydonia, or in 1 Mission on Earth (a mission to retrieve something to unlock Cydoniaresearch or so).
Convert all Mission which are currently 100x100 into 80x80, with a main area of 60x60 and enclosed with fences/bunker/street tiles.
Make all Mission which are currently 80x80 into 70x70, with a main fighting area of 50x50 andalso enclosed with fence,street,bunker tiles.

Well just my thoughts.

Too much enclosed areas and the special missions start getting repetitive. With the 100x100 mission I think I may just drop it to 80x80 and create an inverse situation from the Facility mission where the Skyranger lands outside an enclosed area.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on September 17, 2015, 11:49:22 am
One of the issues of EU is over abuse of explosives by the player, and this is one reason why I like TFTD's Port so much. And if a pile of tires doesn't get vaporized, so what? The upper levels of buildings also should fall down if you vaporize the ground level but they don't :)

There is now overuse of explosives in war, the more the better ;)

Yeah, agreed, I was already considering reducing the size for those dimensions.

This is already implemented for the Facility Defense missions.

Too much enclosed areas and the special missions start getting repetitive. With the 100x100 mission I think I may just drop it to 80x80 and create an inverse situation from the Facility mission where the Skyranger lands outside an enclosed area.
I am excited to see what you will change. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 19, 2015, 04:49:55 pm
There is now overuse of explosives in war, the more the better ;)

I think you and Mr. Torgue would get along fine.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on September 19, 2015, 05:27:24 pm
While I don't strictly disagree with Hobbes on this - there should be terrains that are hard to destroy, UFOs themselves are designed that way - indestructible terrain is IMO overdoing it, it breaks the immersion.
The proper way of curbing high-energy warfare spam (mainly explosives) would be increasing costs (in normal OXCom, $$$, weight and TUs, in extended, eg. throwing can cost soldier's Energy as well) and decreasing accuracy. In real world, high-energy warfare is both expensive and not very surgical. The Blaster Launcher is so OP precisely because it marries maximum energy with maximum precision. Even the humble Missile Launcher is absurdly accurate.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 20, 2015, 06:49:13 am
indestructible terrain is IMO overdoing it, it breaks the immersion.

I'll have some news about this issue since I've been experimenting with Port.

Meanwhile, next release will have the new terrain Slums, which I designed for UFO2000. Due to its design it is impossible to land a craft on it, so I decided to give it a twist. It can appear on terror sites instead of the normal deployment (craft), and the player can either clear the battlescape of aliens or try to reach the exit area on the other side of the map.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/screen053.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on September 20, 2015, 07:40:15 am
A terror site you can't easily escape from... the horror!
I like how chaotic this terrain is, although making it craft-less will turn it into a real nightmare...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: robin on September 20, 2015, 02:23:35 pm
Awesome!
I wanted my (to do) slums terrain to have a bridge-highway too! I was going to examine your train terrain to see how to add the straight line, but this is basically what I had in mind!
The only thing.. I'd add stairs connecting ground to bridge. I wonder if it can be done with mapscript, placing 10*10 blocks with stairs next to the bridge at both sides. That or making the bridge of 20*20 mapblocks that include stairs (but then it would be impossible to synchronize with roads at ground level, I guess).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 20, 2015, 06:30:58 pm
A terror site you can't easily escape from... the horror!
I like how chaotic this terrain is, although making it craft-less will turn it into a real nightmare...

Awesome!
I wanted my (to do) slums terrain to have a bridge-highway too! I was going to examine your train terrain to see how to add the straight line, but this is basically what I had in mind!
The only thing.. I'd add stairs connecting ground to bridge. I wonder if it can be done with mapscript, placing 10*10 blocks with stairs next to the bridge at both sides. That or making the bridge of 20*20 mapblocks that include stairs (but then it would be impossible to synchronize with roads at ground level, I guess).

I was waiting for the opportunity to convert this terrain since it's one of my favorites from UFO2000 but the map design makes it impossible to place any UFOs or craft.

There can be stairs connecting the ground to the bridge, all depends on the RNG when placing roads. It is impossible to place them on the ends using the current road generation rule, you'll need to place them using addBlock, which means you have to define the exact location of the road (with road generation rules the location of the roads can be random).

The original UFO2000 actually allowed this and even placed two horizontal (left bottom to top right corner) roads, with/without highway, and 1 vertical but this is also impossible to reproduce with the OXC mapscript.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 20, 2015, 08:20:36 pm
Are some walls, doors and windows on ship mission suppose to be transparent for LoF ? Also you are sick bastard for giving ship mission on the start.

The trawler has like 8 spawns in the landing bay? WTF? Even TFTD wasn't that brutal.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 20, 2015, 10:21:23 pm
There is something wrong with those barrels. Check the video:

https://www.mediafire.com/watch/ha9ax7oykoz6w7m/trawler.....mp4


I don't know if in the second case were barrels itself, but their explosion radius is waaay off.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 21, 2015, 12:31:10 am
Are some walls, doors and windows on ship mission suppose to be transparent for LoF ? Also you are sick bastard for giving ship mission on the start.

Could you post examples? I have removed the TFTD LoF settings that don't apply to UFO. I have set the ship attack missions to start on month 1, not at start.

Quote
The trawler has like 8 spawns in the landing bay? WTF? Even TFTD wasn't that brutal.

The difference is because of OXC's spawning mechanism since I haven't increased the alien numbers. I've already had to add several more spawning  points, I guess I'll add some more. 

There is something wrong with those barrels. Check the video:

https://www.mediafire.com/watch/ha9ax7oykoz6w7m/trawler.....mp4


I don't know if in the second case were barrels itself, but their explosion radius is waaay off.

The green barrel has a vanilla TFTD explosion value of 100.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Foxhound634 on September 21, 2015, 01:04:52 am
Hi i'm following this mod and have tried it out for some time, love the added depth of it all.

My problem has been that while i have enabled the mod and can see some of the content of it, such as machine pistols, grenade launchers, new terrain and reorganized research, there is a lot of other content that i have not experienced. Since trying out version 0.7 some of that content is now appearing such as base defense, terror missions, port attacks, waspites etc. The initial scripted missions however are nowhere to be found. I have tried several games, waiting several months, but no special missions at the start of the game.  I don't know if the omega campaign was removed (hope not).

The weird thing is that several months ago i DID experience some of the omega missions (though not the final facility raid) and its weaponry. I believe that this was when i used an earlier nightly build of OpenXcom (maybe earlier than 2015_08_13_1343), but i think the UFO Redux build was the same (0.5.4). I tried UFO Redux 0.5.2 as i read that people have had problems with 0.5.4, but i were not experiencing any CTDs that other people were (only when selling the skyranger without de-equipping its crew and gear). I tried disabling all other mods and even clean installs of OpenXcom, but to no avail.

My install steps were as follows:

1) Run the OpenXcom installer ("openxcom-v1.0-win.exe") and link to the appropriate Xcom source folder etc.

2) Open the latest Nightly build ("openxcom_git_master_2015_08_17_0244.zip") and copy the 4 folders and the rest of the files to the OpenXcom folder.

3) Starting the game at this point didn't actually show the game to be the current nightly build, but instead version 1.0. I eventually found out that i had to copy the subfolders from the original Xcom source folder to the "UFO" folder from the nightly zip file, or at least this made the game show the correct build in the menu.

4) Open the mod's zip file ("UFO REDUX v0.5.4.zip") and place the folder in the Documents\OpenXcom\mods directory.

5) Start game, enable mod, play

I don't know where the problem lies, so i hope you can help me
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 21, 2015, 01:28:32 am
Hi i'm following this mod and have tried it out for some time, love the added depth of it all.

My problem has been that while i have enabled the mod and can see some of the content of it, such as machine pistols, grenade launchers, new terrain and reorganized research, there is a lot of other content that i have not experienced. Since trying out version 0.7 some of that content is now appearing such as base defense, terror missions, port attacks, waspites etc. The initial scripted missions however are nowhere to be found. I have tried several games, waiting several months, but no special missions at the start of the game.  I don't know if the omega campaign was removed (hope not).

The weird thing is that several months ago i DID experience some of the omega missions (though not the final facility raid) and its weaponry. I believe that this was when i used an earlier nightly build of OpenXcom (maybe earlier than 2015_08_13_1343), but i think the UFO Redux build was the same (0.5.4). I tried UFO Redux 0.5.2 as i read that people have had problems with 0.5.4, but i were not experiencing any CTDs that other people were (only when selling the skyranger without de-equipping its crew and gear). I tried disabling all other mods and even clean installs of OpenXcom, but to no avail.

My install steps were as follows:

1) Run the OpenXcom installer ("openxcom-v1.0-win.exe") and link to the appropriate Xcom source folder etc.

2) Open the latest Nightly build ("openxcom_git_master_2015_08_17_0244.zip") and copy the 4 folders and the rest of the files to the OpenXcom folder.

3) Starting the game at this point didn't actually show the game to be the current nightly build, but instead version 1.0. I eventually found out that i had to copy the subfolders from the original Xcom source folder to the "UFO" folder from the nightly zip file, or at least this made the game show the correct build in the menu.

4) Open the mod's zip file ("UFO REDUX v0.5.4.zip") and place the folder in the Documents\OpenXcom\mods directory.

5) Start game, enable mod, play

I don't know where the problem lies, so i hope you can help me

Hi there. :)

I posted about this some time ago, basically the Omega Corporation story has been removed, although nearly all its assets have been reused, except for the weapons, which were permanently deleted. I did this for several reasons:
* It felt strange to have human opponents who were constantly ahead of XCom while developing lasers/plasma
* The Mercs/Omega/MJ12 were getting too big - there were enough assets to create a whole new faction
* The Omega weapons were a repetition of the existing weapons and didn't not add anything new that couldn't be replicated by introducing alien alloy ammo to the vanilla weapons.
* The special missions were designed using human transports that needed detection because that's what was possible to create with the nightlies 3 months ago. Meanwhile it became possible to use TFTD's missions and create sites that don't require human crafts, which sometimes didn't work so well in the game logic.
* OXC's development also allowed to truly create custom monthly missions that work better than the adaptations I had to make on 0.5.4.

So the Mercenaries/Omega/MJ12s became 'collaborators' and their missions were changed for 0.7, the most notorious being that they now don't involve transports/UFOs but also that success on their missions they actually can have a strategic impact upon the amount of alien activity being generated.
And to replace their missions there is a new special mission each month, starting on February - it can be an alien regular facility attack, where you either have to assault and disable a cargo ship, retake a factory or a research center, or defend an important building. Or it can be a scripted mission where you have a specific objective like capture an alien or recover research.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 21, 2015, 07:57:27 am
Could you post examples? I have removed the TFTD LoF settings that don't apply to UFO. I have set the ship attack missions to start on month 1, not at start.

On the cruise ship where you start, there is for example a porthole up. You can see through it and shoot through it. and for example the doors down, that leads to passenger quarters also can be shoot through.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 21, 2015, 02:23:25 pm
On the cruise ship where you start, there is for example a porthole up. You can see through it and shoot through it. and for example the doors down, that leads to passenger quarters also can be shoot through.

Just checked, that's how they are designed for TFTD.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 21, 2015, 10:20:02 pm
I am having a crash. I dont know how to describe it. An alien battleship flies into Africa. I have tried various options (intercept or no intercept) - the result is always the same - CTD!!

Kindly check what is happening! I am using the nightly issued on 16 Sept.

-------------------------------------
Portion from code is below

alienMissions:
  - type: STR_ALIEN_RETALIATION
    region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA
    race: STR_MIXED_1_3_BASE
    nextUfoCounter: 0
    uniqueID: 6
    nextWave: 4
    missionSiteZone: -1
    spawnCountdown: 30
    liveUfos: 1
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 21, 2015, 11:18:09 pm
I am having a crash. I dont know how to describe it. An alien battleship flies into Africa. I have tried various options (intercept or no intercept) - the result is always the same - CTD!!

Kindly check what is happening! I am using the nightly issued on 16 Sept.

-------------------------------------
Portion from code is below

alienMissions:
  - type: STR_ALIEN_RETALIATION
    region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA
    race: STR_MIXED_1_3_BASE
    nextUfoCounter: 0
    uniqueID: 6
    nextWave: 4
    missionSiteZone: -1
    spawnCountdown: 30
    liveUfos: 1

The issue is not the Battleship but the research on the Thin Man Corpse, which is bugged. Just remove the scientists and assign them to another project, it doesn't really have much useful info that research and I'll post a permanent fix later.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 21, 2015, 11:29:43 pm
Thanks. That worked! Is the 'Thin Man' research bugged also?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 21, 2015, 11:35:57 pm
Tell me Hobbes. Do you think it is fun to get Super Tough of Cyborgs that cannot be destroyed by starting weapons? I've fired sniper rifles, Large HE rockets (I think 12 direct hits) and the droids still stands. This is not fun and not balanced. Specially in February. Cyberdiscs can be destroyed by 1-3 Large Rockets and it's OK, but when I get alien that is indestructible that's BS. And stun damage requires 5 hits... right.  Lobster at least could die from few rockets and few tazers.  Wait how can you taze Android in Power Armour ?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2015, 12:04:38 am
Thanks. That worked! Is the 'Thin Man' research bugged also?

Thin Man research is working - the issue is that I forgot some definitions about Thin Man Corpse.

Tell me Hobbes. Do you think it is fun to get Super Tough of Cyborgs that cannot be destroyed by starting weapons? I've fired sniper rifles, Large HE rockets (I think 12 direct hits) and the droids still stands. This is not fun and not balanced. Specially in February. Cyberdiscs can be destroyed by 1-3 Large Rockets and it's OK, but when I get alien that is indestructible that's BS.

I was kinda waiting to see what would happen when people started encountering the Phasers... I'll just say that they are not indestructible ( actually they only have 20 health points and 0 armor), they can be destroyed by starting weapons, and that you haven't tried all types of weapons. If you want to know exactly how to kill them, the answer is on this thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3328.msg38191.html#msg38191), on the section that describes the new Units

But if you still feel they are overpowered, just let me know. I'm actually considering reducing the numbers of aliens present on ship attacks due to what you reported earlier.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 12:10:23 am
Now that I know their name I see that they take damage from Inc, Stun and Acid. But fire ammo is DoT right? Stun is very dangerous and not always works. Acid is not available.  Even on small UFO like 6-7 of them is extremely tough and mostly the explosive damage they do is very brutal. Specially if going for stun damage. Personally I think, that they feel out of place with that kind of damage resistance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2015, 12:16:17 am
Now that I know their name I see that they take damage from Inc, Stun and Acid. But fire ammo is DoT right? Stun is very dangerous and not always works. Acid is not available.

I thought it was Smoke instead of Stun, but they also have a very small LoF so shots/punches should miss more than usual. You can actually manufacture Acid rounds for the Small Launcher once you research it and Celatid Corpse. But until then fire is the best answer against Phasers - I usually get some IN rounds for the Heavy Cannon. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 12:30:03 am
Smoke creates small stun damage. Basically you can run up with prods and prod them to "death". But sometimes it requires 5 attacks. Sometimes just 1. I understand that you wanted a change of tactic, but you shouldn't completely turn of every other possible damage. They more look like joke enemy which probably should be terror unit rather than normal enemy. Specially with that blast cannon :/

Ah but I see. From Ufopaedia:

None
Armor Piercing
Incendiary
High Explosive
Laser
Plasma
Stun
Melee
Acid
Smoke

From Ruleset

      - 0.0
      - 0.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.0
      - 0.0
      - 0.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.0


So smoke = 0 damage.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 12:33:54 am
I've also researched Alloy Ammunition. I don't know if the changes are good. Most guns take only like 5 damage change, except HC and AA they get massive boost of ~20+ AP. I don't know if other guns should also get more bonuses.

LMG - from 30 to 36.
Sniper Rifle from 40 to 46.

HC from 50 to 70
AA from 4X to 65 ?

That's huge difference.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 01:02:30 am
Got a mission when only using stun rods I've lost only 3 soldiers. Eh now when you know your enemy it's quite easier - well almost, still hate that blast cannon.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on September 22, 2015, 02:15:50 am
If it has only 20 health, a single hit from an incendiary weapon (and subsequent buring) should kill it easily... the problem is, there should be some fore-warning I think. Nobody uses Incendiary ammo, hence the Phaser.
Maybe there should be some Phaser-lite, which is hard- but not impossible - to kill with HE/AP (might be immune to las-plas), if you capture and research it, you will be ready for full-fledged Phasers that should appear later in the game... Naturally such stuff is only needed for first timers... BUT researching that Phaser-lite could be leading to some better Stun weapon, for example - to betted deal with Phasers AND advance the XCom as a whole... Naturally this is all moot if Small Launcher is easily accessible, there could hardly be a better (non-game breaking) stun weapon than that... Maybe no Stun Bombs production w/o researching Phaser-lite first?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2015, 03:00:13 am
Smoke creates small stun damage. Basically you can run up with prods and prod them to "death". But sometimes it requires 5 attacks. Sometimes just 1. I understand that you wanted a change of tactic, but you shouldn't completely turn of every other possible damage. They more look like joke enemy which probably should be terror unit rather than normal enemy. Specially with that blast cannon :/

Actually I've considered making them and the Stalkers the terror units of the Thin Men. But I considered that Thin Men appearing in standard UFOs and base missions might not be a good idea, for several reasons.

Quote
Ah but I see. From Ufopaedia:

None
Armor Piercing
Incendiary
High Explosive
Laser
Plasma
Stun
Melee
Acid
Smoke

From Ruleset

      - 0.0
      - 0.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.0
      - 0.0
      - 0.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.0


So smoke = 0 damage.

Yeah, I meant for them to have damage to Smoke rather than Stun but I made a mistake while coding it.

I've also researched Alloy Ammunition. I don't know if the changes are good. Most guns take only like 5 damage change, except HC and AA they get massive boost of ~20+ AP. I don't know if other guns should also get more bonuses.

LMG - from 30 to 36.
Sniper Rifle from 40 to 46.

HC from 50 to 70
AA from 4X to 65 ?

That's huge difference.

Hmmm. Here's a list of the weapons, followed by their vanilla AP damage value, then the damage of the now gone Omega weapons, and last column the AA rounds damage:
Pistol: 26/33 = ~20%
Machine Pistol: 26/33 = ~20%
LMG: 30/36 = 20%
Rifle: 30/36 = 20%
Shotgun: 15/20 = 33%
Sniper Rifle: 40/48 = 20%
Heavy Cannon: 56/70 = 25%
Auto Cannon: 42/64 = ~50%

Yeah, I think the AC alloy round is clearly overpowered over the other ones, it should be around 52 power, keeping the 25% increase. The Shotgun might seem overpowered but considering how hard it can be to pierce the aliens's armor with shotguns. As for the rest, it can be either to stick to either the 20 or 25% values and adjust the corresponding weapons. Or keep everything as it is, with the exception of the AC.

Got a mission when only using stun rods I've lost only 3 soldiers. Eh now when you know your enemy it's quite easier - well almost, still hate that blast cannon.

I've already switched it to Smoke rather than Stun in the next release so enjoy :)

If it has only 20 health, a single hit from an incendiary weapon (and subsequent buring) should kill it easily... the problem is, there should be some fore-warning I think. Nobody uses Incendiary ammo, hence the Phaser.

The damage stated for IN rounds does not correspond to their actual damage when hitting a target, which is much reduced, according to UFOPaedia.org about the original game. Which might be correct or not, but from my experience it is difficult to kill a Phaser with a single IN grenade or cannon round but once it is on fire it will continue to take damage for the subsequent turns.

Quote
Maybe there should be some Phaser-lite, which is hard- but not impossible - to kill with HE/AP (might be immune to las-plas), if you capture and research it, you will be ready for full-fledged Phasers that should appear later in the game...

The problem is that the Overlords already have that immunity to las-plas but they appear after the Phasers because they were designed by XOps to be a late race.

Quote
Naturally such stuff is only needed for first timers... BUT researching that Phaser-lite could be leading to some better Stun weapon, for example - to betted deal with Phasers AND advance the XCom as a whole... Naturally this is all moot if Small Launcher is easily accessible, there could hardly be a better (non-game breaking) stun weapon than that... Maybe no Stun Bombs production w/o researching Phaser-lite first?

Well, I've actually considered adding a crib sheet to the UFOPaedia with important info such as the Phasers vulnerability to IN. But I don't believe that adding a 2nd unit to solve issues with another might be the right answer.

I actually was expecting something like Silencer_pl's posted reactions: first you go WTF? then once you known how to kill them it gets easier, although their blast cannon can still be quite painful.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2015, 03:33:20 am
Meanwhile, this is a quick fix for the Thin Man Corpse bug since I won't be able to fully release 0.7.2 until the next days.

Just unzip it and replace the corresponding ruleset file in /My Documents/OpenXCom/mods/UFO Redux/Ruleset folder.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 22, 2015, 10:31:09 am
Thanks Hobbes. Will test it once I get back home. Perhaps I should be sneaking my laptop to the office. I can play it during break time.

I must also say that I like this expansion*. I look forward to getting my hands on the new research.

*Although I have added my own weapons and better soldiers.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2015, 05:17:37 pm
*Although I have added my own weapons and better soldiers.

And an additional billion dollars ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 22, 2015, 05:29:07 pm
And an additional billion dollars ;)

Money Power Respect - that is the key to life!!

I have a dislike for being poor in X-COM. The only thing needed is to get a bigger troop transport!!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on September 22, 2015, 05:55:33 pm
Money Power Respect - that is the key to life!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZTIW86kA1M :P


Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 22, 2015, 09:32:42 pm
So I have a feeling I'm being really stupid. But the install process is confusing me somewhat.

It stats in the readme to install into the Mods folder. I have no mods folder. Upon making one and extracting I still get no options to enable them nor do they show in the list in any manner. I figured maybe I'd need OpenXCom 1.0 and put the nightly ontop. However the two versions have COMPLETELY different folder structures and I couldn't see a logical way that it would be needed. Especially considering the nightly builds also state it contains all older builds. I also extracted the files into the main game data rather than a mods folder and still no dice.

Am I supposed to seperate out the data of the mod between two entirely different subdirectories? IE Everything but the rulesets go into \UFO and the rulesets get put into it's own folder within \standard

It's been a long ass time since I last touched Open Xcom and the file structures are now entirely different and the previous method of mod installation seems to no longer apply. Last I used a modded open xcom was a year or so ago and that was using FMP.

Edit -

Nevermind I believe I got it working. Seems I did just need to make it's own directory within the \standard folder and put the entire contents within it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 09:35:15 pm
I wish you could get rid of the small UFOs without power sources or add them. It's little irritating if so 75% crew gets wasted but no Elerium from landed UFO.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Meridian on September 22, 2015, 09:38:46 pm
So I have a feeling I'm being really stupid. But the install process is confusing me somewhat.

It stats in the readme to install into the Mods folder. I have no mods folder.

The mods folder is in your user directory, Documents, OpenXcom.... for example: c:\Users\Meridian\Documents\OpenXcom\mods\
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 09:51:18 pm
Phasor Androids on Abductors.... sigh as if small UFO wasn't bad enough. Let me guess those can have their own personal Battleship ?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 22, 2015, 09:52:24 pm
The mods folder is in your user directory, Documents, OpenXcom.... for example: c:\Users\Meridian\Documents\OpenXcom\mods\

I feel the readme should clearly state that as opposed to a mods folder without any context or direction. Especially considering the way to install mods has completely changed since I last played.

Either way it's installed, recognized and working, although It isn't installed in the manner you've described.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2015, 10:18:31 pm
Phasor Androids on Abductors.... sigh as if small UFO wasn't bad enough. Let me guess those can have their own personal Battleship ?

Their own personal base too! :D

I feel the readme should clearly state that as opposed to a mods folder without any context or direction. Especially considering the way to install mods has completely changed since I last played.

Either way it's installed, recognized and working, although It isn't installed in the manner you've described.

You should install as Meridian has described otherwise you might get issues while running the mod. I'll change the readme as well.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 22, 2015, 11:12:35 pm
Ajaxial - I did similar and pasted in standards folder.

Erm Hobbes, I had another CTD - Area 51. I have as usual uploaded the game file.

Checked if it was the research and stopped all of them. Still same crash.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 22, 2015, 11:56:28 pm
Their own personal base too! :D

You are evil sick bastard!!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 23, 2015, 12:11:11 am
Ajaxial - I did similar and pasted in standards folder.

Erm Hobbes, I had another CTD - Area 51. I have as usual uploaded the game file.

Checked if it was the research and stopped all of them. Still same crash.

I've attached the fixed ruleset, unzip it to the /Ruleset folder and you can continue your game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: ivandogovich on September 23, 2015, 01:21:38 am
Just catching up on the thread Hobbes!!  Looking amazing!! Keep up the terrific work!!  ~ Cheers!~
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 23, 2015, 01:44:36 am
Ajaxial - I did similar and pasted in standards folder.

Erm Hobbes, I had another CTD - Area 51. I have as usual uploaded the game file.

Checked if it was the research and stopped all of them. Still same crash.

I'm glad it isn't just me that has used that method. :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 23, 2015, 02:33:08 am
Double post. Sorry.

Any reason why you've allowed some of the races to have the ability to throw grenades across half the map? I just had a sectoid throw a grenade from the edge of a map to about halfway through to it. (Large port map)

Like I don't mind the enemy using grenades, but half map throwing distance is a tad...askew.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 23, 2015, 05:08:28 am
Just catching up on the thread Hobbes!!  Looking amazing!! Keep up the terrific work!!  ~ Cheers!~

Thanks, cheers :)

Double post. Sorry.

Any reason why you've allowed some of the races to have the ability to throw grenades across half the map? I just had a sectoid throw a grenade from the edge of a map to about halfway through to it. (Large port map)

Like I don't mind the enemy using grenades, but half map throwing distance is a tad...askew.

I'm not responsible for that :)

The reason why aliens (and humans) can throw grenades so far has to do with how the throwing arc is calculated on the original game and OpenXCom. If you try to throw a grenade indoors the game will take into account the roof of the house and limit the throwing distance - if too far grenade hits ceiling before reaching target or it says that you're out of range. If you throw a grenade outdoors then the original game considers the 4 level limit of maps as the ceiling and this also imposes a limit on the throwing range. But in OXC the outdoors are considered not to have a 'ceiling' thus grenades can travel much farther.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 23, 2015, 08:43:47 am
But isn't the strength also a factor for range? Sometimes I can throw a screen wide flare with STR 20, so a Sectoid shouldn't be able to throw a grenade across half the map. Maybe OXC bug?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 23, 2015, 10:18:50 am
Reading through this thread, I just realised that I didnt do any of the below.

- See a Merc within the first month (are they still in game)
- I havent gotten laser weapons
- I just got my Plasma research done (within my 4th month)

I could imagine the carnage and intense difficulty if I wasnt using a modded weapon which I pray the human opponents dont have.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 23, 2015, 10:52:36 am
I'm glad it isn't just me that has used that method. :D

LOL! Yesterday in trying to solve the CTD that I wasnt getting, I moved them to the mods folder. I also created metadata.yml files for all my custom mods..
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 23, 2015, 02:27:35 pm
Reading through this thread, I just realised that I didnt do any of the below.

- See a Merc within the first month (are they still in game)
- I havent gotten laser weapons
- I just got my Plasma research done (within my 4th month)

I could imagine the carnage and intense difficulty if I wasnt using a modded weapon which I pray the human opponents dont have.

Mercs don't appear anymore on 0.7
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on September 23, 2015, 02:46:46 pm
Mercs don't appear anymore on 0.7

It's pretty sad the Omega/mercenary arc was taken out, I liked it a lot, but I understand that the vision evolved.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 23, 2015, 03:54:38 pm
It's pretty sad the Omega/mercenary arc was taken out, I liked it a lot, but I understand that the vision evolved.

It was getting too big and too hard to fit with the entire invasion story - you had a secret human organization that had equivalent or better technology than XCom but other than stealing their tech they didn't really play any other meaningful rule, so they were basically stealing the show.

At a certain point I just realized that they were better fit to be the main opponent in a total conversion, although I don't have plans at the moment to go this way.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on September 23, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
Yeah that makes sense - you either have them as the main antagonist (or at least cohorts of the main antagonist, just like Sectoids are cohorts of the Ethereals), or you don't have them at all. It would sideline the aliens, and the aliens are supposed to be the main antagonist. If Omega were to be the front to the whole alien invasion, it would require redesigning the whole game...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 23, 2015, 09:02:53 pm
Thanks, cheers :)

I'm not responsible for that :)

The reason why aliens (and humans) can throw grenades so far has to do with how the throwing arc is calculated on the original game and OpenXCom. If you try to throw a grenade indoors the game will take into account the roof of the house and limit the throwing distance - if too far grenade hits ceiling before reaching target or it says that you're out of range. If you throw a grenade outdoors then the original game considers the 4 level limit of maps as the ceiling and this also imposes a limit on the throwing range. But in OXC the outdoors are considered not to have a 'ceiling' thus grenades can travel much farther.

Strange. I find it odd how a small little sectoid can outthrow two of my men. Who can't actually hit that sort of range with grenades and they aren't exactly low strength either. :/ Especially outside in a giant open area.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 23, 2015, 09:47:04 pm
Area 51 is tough and I am not even playing Superhuman. And oh yeah AP kills overlord!! Imagine my glee when I found that out!!

Took me a good 10+ solid minute and I got all three data discs. Research time.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 23, 2015, 11:08:03 pm
Got awfully lots of random crashes during base defense. Attaching save. It's either if I shoot or swap soldiers using the button. The fastest way to get a crash is select Kazak IV and hit next soldier.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 24, 2015, 02:34:14 am
Area 51 is tough and I am not even playing Superhuman. And oh yeah AP kills overlord!! Imagine my glee when I found that out!!

Took me a good 10+ solid minute and I got all three data discs. Research time.

But not that tough that you couldn't beat it :)

Better to always bring a couple AP rounds... you never know when you may ran into the Overlords again...

Got awfully lots of random crashes during base defense. Attaching save. It's either if I shoot or swap soldiers using the button. The fastest way to get a crash is select Kazak IV and hit next soldier.

Here's the fix. Unzip to the ruleset folder of UFO Redux and you can continue your saved game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 24, 2015, 04:25:03 am
Yeah that makes sense - you either have them as the main antagonist (or at least cohorts of the main antagonist, just like Sectoids are cohorts of the Ethereals), or you don't have them at all. It would sideline the aliens, and the aliens are supposed to be the main antagonist. If Omega were to be the front to the whole alien invasion, it would require redesigning the whole game...

Or make the Omega Corporation/MJ12 a part of a massive alien infiltration effort in preparation of the invasion. Like a prequel to the OG's storyline where you're XCom's predecessor or an entirely different agency. You'd have crap fighter planes and smaller squads and try to figure out some odd worldwide incidents. Or instead of UFOs you'd could have enemy fighters launching from certain countries and deploying to other areas.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 24, 2015, 08:30:32 pm
So I'm on the 22nd of February. And I can now already research Psionics and Alien Origins thanks to a Sectoid leader that didn't die after I shot it but instead just passed out. Also goddamn Waspites are brutal with Grenades. Turns out they LOVE throwing them.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 24, 2015, 09:36:10 pm
So I'm on the 22nd of February. And I can now already research Psionics and Alien Origins thanks to a Sectoid leader that didn't die after I shot it but instead just passed out. Also goddamn Waspites are brutal with Grenades. Turns out they LOVE throwing them.

Did you have the Facility Attack already?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 24, 2015, 09:59:26 pm
Did you have the Facility Attack already?

HWP Factory yes. I think I just got really lucky in that the leader didn't die from the barrage of rifle fire throw it's way. :D

On a sidenote. Cyberdisks are kicking my ass. Guess it's time to try some bigger weapons cause it completely shrugs off rifle rounds and HE AutoCannon rounds. :P
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 25, 2015, 01:20:31 am
I might have had a little problem. I seem to be very good at destroying enemy vessels. I have not had an alien base and I need an ethereal one to get Cydonia. Do I (horror of horrors) allow the creation of an ethereal base? There are the ones I want.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 01:35:30 am
HWP Factory yes. I think I just got really lucky in that the leader didn't die from the barrage of rifle fire throw it's way. :D

On a sidenote. Cyberdisks are kicking my ass. Guess it's time to try some bigger weapons cause it completely shrugs off rifle rounds and HE AutoCannon rounds. :P

Cyberdiscs (and nearly everything vanilla) haven't been changed :)

I might have had a little problem. I seem to be very good at destroying enemy vessels. I have not had an alien base and I need an ethereal one to get Cydonia. Do I (horror of horrors) allow the creation of an ethereal base? There are the ones I want.

You have 3 options to find and capture an Ethereal Commander: assault an Ethereal Base, assault one of the Battleships that appear when bases are being created, or shoot down the Overseer UFO.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 25, 2015, 02:18:59 am
Cyberdiscs (and nearly everything vanilla) haven't been changed :)

Very odd. They seem COMPLETELY impervious to Rifle rounds and Heavy Cannon Rounds. (I pumped a hell of a lot of both into them) In Vanilla they've always gone down from them. :/
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 03:09:54 am
Very odd. They seem COMPLETELY impervious to Rifle rounds and Heavy Cannon Rounds. (I pumped a hell of a lot of both into them) In Vanilla they've always gone down from them. :/

To me there are 2 effective conventional weapons against Cyberdiscs: Large Rockets and High Explosives.

Cyberdiscs have a 0.8 modifier for AP and 34 armor on all sides, a rifle round has 30 damage, and a damage variation between 0 and 200%. So, each rifle shot can deal between -34 and 14 damage to Cyberdiscs. Or, more than 2/3 of the shots will fail to penetrate the armor, and of the remainder, it will deal between 0-14 damage. Considering that a disc has 120 base health, it would take a lot of rifle shots to kill it.

Heavy Cannon AP rounds are much better since they can deal 54 average damage, so each shot can deal -34 to 53 damage, so you'd need a lot less shots than the rifle but you'll still need a minimum of 3 HE shots to kill a disc.

Now, Large Rockets is what you're looking for. Discs have a 0.6 modifier, rocket has 100 damage and a 50-150% damage variation, so they deal -4 to 56 damage to the square where they hit... but since Cyberdiscs are 4 square units, the other 3 squares also receive damage, between -14 to 46, which means that the combined damage of the 4 squares is usually enough to drop a Cyberdisc with a single rocket. Or HE Pack (110 damage).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 25, 2015, 03:18:50 am
To me there are 2 effective conventional weapons against Cyberdiscs: Large Rockets and High Explosives.

Cyberdiscs have a 0.8 modifier for AP and 34 armor on all sides, a rifle round has 30 damage, and a damage variation between 0 and 200%. So, each rifle shot can deal between -34 and 14 damage to Cyberdiscs. Or, more than 2/3 of the shots will fail to penetrate the armor, and of the remainder, it will deal between 0-14 damage. Considering that a disc has 120 base health, it would take a lot of rifle shots to kill it.

Heavy Cannon AP rounds are much better since they can deal 54 average damage, so each shot can deal -34 to 53 damage, so you'd need a lot less shots than the rifle but you'll still need a minimum of 3 HE shots to kill a disc.

Now, Large Rockets is what you're looking for. Discs have a 0.6 modifier, rocket has 100 damage and a 50-150% damage variation, so they deal -4 to 56 damage to the square where they hit... but since Cyberdiscs are 4 square units, the other 3 squares also receive damage, between -14 to 46, which means that the combined damage of the 4 squares is usually enough to drop a Cyberdisc with a single rocket. Or HE Pack (110 damage).

I have resorted to Rockets. (And a Rocket HWP) which works better. I just find it strange how in Vanilla without mods I was able to take them down easily...ish with conventional rounds. But in this it doesn't seem to do so. Either way it's a nice challenge. :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 04:40:45 am
I have resorted to Rockets. (And a Rocket HWP) which works better. I just find it strange how in Vanilla without mods I was able to take them down easily...ish with conventional rounds. But in this it doesn't seem to do so. Either way it's a nice challenge. :D

I just checked the UFOPaedia.org page about Cyberdiscs (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Cyberdisc) on the vanilla game, it states:
"Take this hovering manhole cover down with (in this order): High Explosive packs, Laser Rifles, Heavy Rockets, Tank Rockets, Heavy Lasers, Alien Grenades, Laser Pistols, or Tank Cannon. Heavy Cannon (AP only) can be used but you will need the massed fire of half a full squad for a whole turn to bring down just one disc. Forget standard Rifles or Pistols - they're just too tough. HE rounds (Heavy Cannon or Auto Cannon) and regular Grenades (even Proximity mines) are almost totally ineffective. Of course, once you have Plasma weapons, things start to look up."
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2015, 08:25:44 am
Why ignore incendiary weapons? They aren't very powerful, but they do consistent damage and often cause burning.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 25, 2015, 02:10:18 pm
I just checked the UFOPaedia.org page about Cyberdiscs (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Cyberdisc) on the vanilla game, it states:
"Take this hovering manhole cover down with (in this order): High Explosive packs, Laser Rifles, Heavy Rockets, Tank Rockets, Heavy Lasers, Alien Grenades, Laser Pistols, or Tank Cannon. Heavy Cannon (AP only) can be used but you will need the massed fire of half a full squad for a whole turn to bring down just one disc. Forget standard Rifles or Pistols - they're just too tough. HE rounds (Heavy Cannon or Auto Cannon) and regular Grenades (even Proximity mines) are almost totally ineffective. Of course, once you have Plasma weapons, things start to look up."

Now that you mention it. I think I used to always blitz through to Laser weapons and get Laser Rifles asap. Still. Alien Alloy Mags for Rifles does also eventually put them down. Again very slowly but it helps with extra damage along with other weapons to put them down so I can't complain, it will tide me over till I can nab a few aliens and research the Laser Weaponry.

On a sidenote. Attacked a ship and it was full of guys in like silver armor with single strip visor helmet type of deal. Hit one with a HWP rocket directly and a handful of AA rounds from rifles. Didn't seem to slow him down at all as he promptly proceeded to wipe out a few members with his explosive plasma sort of weapon. (Yeah It's a vague description.)  ;)

Still the variation of enemies and missions and the new challenge has been very fun thus far. Albeit it somewhat rage inducing at rare points. I love it.  ;D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 03:46:49 pm
On a sidenote. Attacked a ship and it was full of guys in like silver armor with single strip visor helmet type of deal. Hit one with a HWP rocket directly and a handful of AA rounds from rifles. Didn't seem to slow him down at all as he promptly proceeded to wipe out a few members with his explosive plasma sort of weapon. (Yeah It's a vague description.)  ;)

Still the variation of enemies and missions and the new challenge has been very fun thus far. Albeit it somewhat rage inducing at rare points. I love it.  ;D

They're called Phasers and they can be killed, you just need to find out how :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 25, 2015, 04:58:36 pm
They're called Phasers and they can be killed, you just need to find out how :)

I've no doubt they can be bought down. Was just taken back a little when it shrugged off my Rocket and AA rounds. Certainly made me think twice until I decided to bolt and abort. :P
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 25, 2015, 08:16:09 pm
Stunning works very well with Phasers ..
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 08:27:42 pm
Stunning works very well with Phasers ..

It will stop working on 0.7.2 because their current vulnerability to stun is a design error on my part, I thought I had set it for smoke.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 25, 2015, 09:59:35 pm
LOL!! How does one kill them - throw a smoke grenade and run?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 10:18:28 pm
LOL!! How does one kill them - throw a smoke grenade and run?

Fire! Fire! Burn! Burn! ;)

FYI, although Stun Rods don't work anymore with Phasers you'll still may want to bring them since they're still useful against Stalkers...

UFO Redux 0.7.2 has been released at the mod portal.

 It contains all the fixes published on the previous posts, plus the following changes:
* Darkstar and additional hangar removed from starting base (but you can still buy Darkstars)
* New weapons moved out of the Skyranger and into the base stores to help with compatibility with other mods. Machine Pistol and Incendiary Grenade added to starting items.
* Slums terrain added as a terror site, with a new deployment where your soldiers start in one edge of the map and the exit zone is located on the opposite edge.
* AC alloy rounds power reduced to 50 instead of 60+, to keep with the general 20% increase in weapon power given by the alloy ammo.

I hope I haven't broken anything since real life has really caught up with me this week. You may notice also that there might be some issues with corpses corresponding to units but I decided not to touch this until I can rework the corpse system with time, otherwise I'm just risking adding more bugs.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 25, 2015, 10:53:42 pm
I think you've messed something up. Everything is almost gone now.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 11:00:59 pm
I think you've messed something up. Everything is almost gone now.

What is gone exactly? Just installed it on the newest nightly and everything seems to be working when starting a new campaign.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 25, 2015, 11:07:39 pm
Ok I found out why, I have Folder UFO Redux for the mod as you have been supplying 0.7 in that folder, but 0.7.2 does not have so I copied the zip file to UFO Redux folder and extracted it. Although Mods showed UFO redux was there I didn't have UFO redux content like guns, darkstar and stuff. Once I moved that zip away everything works fine.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 25, 2015, 11:14:17 pm
Ok I found out why, I have Folder UFO Redux for the mod as you have been supplying 0.7 in that folder, but 0.7.2 does not have so I copied the zip file to UFO Redux folder and extracted it. Although Mods showed UFO redux was there I didn't have UFO redux content like guns, darkstar and stuff. Once I moved that zip away everything works fine.

You're right, I'll add the folder, thanks.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 25, 2015, 11:58:41 pm
I seem to have a crash when intercepting a UFO on 0.7.1

I've attached a save. It seems to be when the Interceptors get close to the UFO and start tailing it that it just CTD's. (I've changed around the funding just cause I like being rich but that's it. I assume that isn't the cause as it's not caused any problems since then.)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 12:16:47 am
Why ignore incendiary weapons? They aren't very powerful, but they do consistent damage and often cause burning.

IN rounds deal between an average of 6.4 damage points upon hitting a target, plus 1-12 random damage every turn the unit is on fire. On average you'd deal about 25 damage points for each round that hits the 4 squares of the Cyberdisc, and the additional burn damage at the end of the turn. The nice thing is that fire ignores armor, so you can use it at least to weaken the disc.

Hey Hobbes, just trying 0.7.2 with very latest nightly and, i equipped a soldier with autto launcer and a pistol, in the base inventory, but once in battlescape the pistol turned into a rifle clip!! Please may you double check? Thanks!

Just tried the pistol and seems fine, check attached pics. I've been through the files but I haven't changed anything about the vanilla Pistol except giving it the alloy rounds. Is the behavior still repeating itself?

Quote
Hey i liked the machine pistol, how about to add some sort of basic armor to buy, like hellrazor's hardmod expansion?

Once you research alien alloys you unlock both alloy ammo and alloy vest research topics, so by the end of the first month it's usual to have either project completed and available for manufacture. If I add a basic armor that can be purchased it will be available from the start for the player to use, making the starting armor (a.k.a. jumpsuit) obsolete at game start and alloy armor should also be removed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 12:19:54 am
I seem to have a crash when intercepting a UFO on 0.7.1

I've attached a save. It seems to be when the Interceptors get close to the UFO and start tailing it that it just CTD's. (I've changed around the funding just cause I like being rich but that's it. I assume that isn't the cause as it's not caused any problems since then.)

The crash is provoked by the Thin Man Corpse you're researching. That bug has been already fixed on 0.7.2.

Btw... what happened on the March 17th mission?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 26, 2015, 12:22:01 am
The crash is provoked by the Thin Man Corpse you're researching. That bug has been already fixed on 0.7.2.

Ah yes I recalling seeing that post. I assume my 0.7.1 save is compatible with 0.7.2?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 12:25:22 am
Ah yes I recalling seeing that post. I assume my 0.7.1 save is compatible with 0.7.2?

Yeah, I tested your save on 0.7.2 :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 26, 2015, 12:26:05 am
Yeah, I tested your save on 0.7.2 :)

Ah fantastic. I shall switch over to 0.7.2 and latest nightly now then. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: HotIceHilda on September 26, 2015, 12:40:00 am
BIG MEATY CLAWS!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 12:55:35 am
About Wright-Patterson. What is this Jagged Alliance? ;) Can you make the first spawn or item spawn somewhere else. I see that the items get spawned under first soldier. Not that good if this soldier is outside of the main building.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 12:56:34 am
BIG MEATY CLAWS!

What are those claws supposed to be?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 01:00:00 am
Advanced Alien Tech is acquired only through Scientist?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 01:04:00 am
Advanced Alien Tech is acquired only through Scientist?

Yes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 01:09:12 am
LIES EVERYWHERE!!

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 01:11:43 am
LIES EVERYWHERE!!

lol... didn't notice that text :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: HotIceHilda on September 26, 2015, 01:33:47 am
What are those claws supposed to be?
The basic weapons, they shouldn't be there because with 0.7.2 you only start with grenades.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on September 26, 2015, 01:34:31 am
Until Hobbes gets time to fix these minor glitches you could always edit the base defence text in standard/xcom1/language to remove that piece of text. Hobbes will correct me if I'm wrong but I think having civvies running amok in base defences was a recent change in redux, somewhere from v0.7 onwards.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 01:36:44 am
The basic weapons, they shouldn't be there because with 0.7.2 you only start with grenades.

Hmmm... the thing is, I hardly changed anything about the basic weapons and specially not the inventory images.

About Wright-Patterson. What is this Jagged Alliance? ;) Can you make the first spawn or item spawn somewhere else. I see that the items get spawned under first soldier. Not that good if this soldier is outside of the main building.

Wright-Patterson is the USAF base where the Roswell remains were supposedly taken. I can't make the items spawn elsewhere.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 02:29:30 am
Is base defense then hardcoded to spawn items in general stores?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 02:42:13 am
Is base defense then hardcoded to spawn items in general stores?

Looks that way, I can't find anything on the rulesets that allow me to change it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2015, 03:04:21 am
Looks that way, I can't find anything on the rulesets that allow me to change it.

I'm not sure, but doesn't setting bigOb to -1 prevent the item from spawning?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 03:12:17 am
I'm not sure, but doesn't setting bigOb to -1 prevent the item from spawning?

The issue is not to prevent items from spawning but to prevent them from being all spawn in the location of the first soldier on the craft, in maps where there's no craft deployed, like Slums.

EDIT: meanwhile I had to post an update to 0.7.2 since I wrongly included some Area51 terrain files.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on September 26, 2015, 09:57:26 am
There is an issue on mod portal about your update
bye
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 10:31:34 am
EDIT: meanwhile I had to post an update to 0.7.2 since I wrongly included some Area51 terrain files.

I'm getting this when trying to download the update

Quote
The page you requested was not found. Please try again.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 12:12:24 pm
I have a question about Minigun. Currently I can't put good use to this weapon. It's very heavy, it's completely inaccurate, costs ton of APs to use and it's damage is meh even with AA upgrade.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 26, 2015, 01:07:07 pm
I'm getting this when trying to download the update

There is an issue on mod portal about your update
bye

I've just reuploaded it.

I have a question about Minigun. Currently I can't put good use to this weapon. It's very heavy, it's completely inaccurate, costs ton of APs to use and it's damage is meh even with AA upgrade.

Remove it?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 01:10:48 pm
I don't know, Auto Cannon is our minigun of some sorts. If minigun has to stay it definitely needs a buff, be it less bulky, or do more damage, or whatever. A soldier that can carry Minigun is better to carry rocket launcher. More damage, more accurate.

If strength can be as it is, it's accuracy needs at least accuracy of Auto Cannon, longer burst range without penalty and at least damage close enough to AC, might be slight less due to smaller caliber but the velocity is bigger so I don't know.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2015, 01:28:10 pm
Yeah, miniguns are a bitch to balance. The problem with them is that their basic function is to clear large swathes of land, but such situations rarely come up in X-Com, because it's more about storming the place. Therefore I guess it would take adding more static missions (like base defence) to make them shine more.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on September 26, 2015, 06:03:01 pm
I've just reuploaded it.

Remove it?

I'd aggre, but i'd replace with some kind of doom m60! Should be a bit more powerful than the light machine gun, with more firepower but somewhat heavy.  :-\

for sprites and handobs see here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3924.msg50735.html#msg50735)  8)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 08:53:32 pm
You've missed something in the slums:

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 26, 2015, 10:09:32 pm
1. MIB Agents count as Thin Man when captured? If MIB are something else, why they are hostile towards X-COM and why I don't have any research about them if I manage to capture agent?
2. Thin Man live one costs 0 to sell why?
3. Thin Man corpse costs 1000 only why not as all other aliens?
4. I had this strange corpse. X-COM solider died on this place and the area was treated by AC-HE.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 12:22:00 am
I'd aggre, but i'd replace with some kind of doom m60! Should be a bit more powerful than the light machine gun, with more firepower but somewhat heavy.  :-\

for sprites and handobs see here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3924.msg50735.html#msg50735)  8)

As said before, there's already the AC and the LMG so the Minigun is rather redundant.

You've missed something in the slums:

You shouldn't be able to have craft on the Slums terrain, this happened because I was experimenting and forgot to remove it.

1. MIB Agents count as Thin Man when captured? If MIB are something else, why they are hostile towards X-COM and why I don't have any research about them if I manage to capture agent?

You cannot capture MIB Agents since they have been removed on 0.7 (they are only present in the Group Pic test terrain on New Battle). If you ran into MIB Corpses that's because I haven't had time yet to make the sprites for those corpses.

Quote
2. Thin Man live one costs 0 to sell why?
3. Thin Man corpse costs 1000 only why not as all other aliens?

Haven't changed that yet. What values should it be?

Quote
4. I had this strange corpse. X-COM solider died on this place and the area was treated by AC-HE.

No idea what happened there.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 12:39:55 am
About MIBs. I've got a standard "terror mission" and there where Thin Mans and MIBs.  Check attachments.


About the prices. Normal I guess I think live alien costs 40k and corpse 20k right?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Ajaxial on September 27, 2015, 12:58:39 am
I had the exact same mission and also from the looks of it, the same map too a little while back. First couple months or so.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 01:12:57 am
About MIBs. I've got a standard "terror mission" and there where Thin Mans and MIBs.  Check attachments.


About the prices. Normal I guess I think live alien costs 40k and corpse 20k right?

Ah, a little confusion it seems. Check the unit name: it is called Human Agent, not MIB, and graphically they are actually slightly different than robin's MIB unit (I made the tie more defined). 'MIB' as a unit has been replaced, although the sprite is based on robin's.

You also must have had some Chryssalids in that terror mission right?

Prices sound right to me :)

Btw, there's a text string missing from the other image you posted today and the corpse is of a civilian but I've got no idea how your unit turned into that corpse.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 01:25:49 am
No chrysalids there.

Sure the live one is called human agent, but the corpse is called MIB agent, so I was guessing they are MIBs.  That still made them vanished after the mission (no corpses or live ones in the base).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 01:33:13 am
No chrysalids there.

Sure the live one is called human agent, but the corpse is called MIB agent, so I was guessing they are MIBs.  That still made them vanished after the mission (no corpses or live ones in the base).

Ah dawg you're right, sorry I was convinced I had already updated that part. You can't recover their corpses after the mission, that is intended - they wouldn't reveal any useful game info (subject is a male but we have been unable to identify him who seems to have been assisting the aliens, etc.) and would merely add a useless research topic.

The human agents and thin men appear on the Capture mission and others, including terror but eventually they'll stop appearing on regular missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 10:38:51 am
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 12:39:41 pm
About the prices. Normal I guess I think live alien costs 40k and corpse 20k right?

I've double checked the live aliens go for 60k.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 03:23:23 pm
Why SCIENTISTS aren't found in alien bases? Wouldn't this be the obvious place to find them? I attacked 2 sectoid_floater bases and I'm looking at aliens.rul and there are no scientist mentioned in any race base.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 03:30:44 pm
Why SCIENTISTS aren't found in alien bases? Wouldn't this be the obvious place to find them? I attacked 2 sectoid_floater bases and I'm looking at aliens.rul and there are no scientist mentioned in any race base.

Because you can already get alien commanders in bases and the way alienRaces are defined you either get a Commander or a Scientist generated but not never both.

And there's another obvious place to look for Scientists (hint: it's not Battleships since Commanders don't spawn on them anymore).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 04:23:03 pm
Quote
capture the Ethereal Commander required to send the Avenger to Cydonia.

So other Commanders are just worthless?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 04:41:56 pm
So other Commanders are just worthless?

You'll always need to capture 3 leaders/commanders to get to Cydonia: one to unlock Alien Operations (any leader or commander), the 2nd for The Martian Solution (any commander) and the 3rd for Cydonia or Bust (Ethereal Commander only).

You could capture 2 Ethereal Commanders to get both Martian Solution or Cydonia, but it might be easier trying to nab one of the other commanders first. ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 05:02:25 pm
Ah, that solves everything.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 07:59:33 pm
Because you can already get alien commanders in bases and the way alienRaces are defined you either get a Commander or a Scientist generated but not never both.

Didn't get either, is this a bug? Got 2x sectoid leaders and 2x floater navigators as highest ranking aliens.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 09:40:57 pm
Didn't get either, is this a bug? Got 2x sectoid leaders and 2x floater navigators as highest ranking aliens.

Didn't get either what? You can only get alien commanders at bases, never scientists.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 27, 2015, 10:07:06 pm
I am getting worried about the mechanics for setting up bases. I discovered I had three bases despite successfully shooting down every single bit of Alien Craft that I saw. PS I have 8 bases and all of them cover the earth with 100% accuracy (changed that little setting in the ruleset)

I have also had two countries (USA and India) pull out of funding .. Thank goodness I am a communist!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 27, 2015, 10:08:32 pm
I've double checked the live aliens go for 60k.

Depends on which alien. Soldiers go for 40k. Higher ranks go for 60k.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 27, 2015, 10:30:02 pm
I have Researched Thin Man, the news said something about UFO landing in a city near my base. Had a sectoid battleship landed on a city but didn't get anything from it. Was it not that ship? Does it have to be a Thin Man UFO ?

Depends on which alien. Soldiers go for 40k. Higher ranks go for 60k.

Yep you are right, since I don't keep soldiers, any real class gives more $$$.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 27, 2015, 10:52:27 pm
I have Researched Thin Man, the news said something about UFO landing in a city near my base. Had a sectoid battleship landed on a city but didn't get anything from it. Was it not that ship? Does it have to be a Thin Man UFO ?

It will land on the month after you've finished research on Thin Man, it was not the sectoid battleship you detected.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 27, 2015, 11:08:54 pm
Hobbes, I come to thee once with graver tidings. Alas I hath attempted upon my steed to research either of Sectoid Commander or Gazer Commander having pummelled their fortress to the ground and making away with their bodies for further understanding of their foul arts. Unfortunately my steed hath suffered a 'CTD' and can no longer proceed.

As usual I have attached the culprit save file. I must give credit - even with my cheats the game is very enjoyable!!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 28, 2015, 12:06:41 am
I am getting worried about the mechanics for setting up bases. I discovered I had three bases despite successfully shooting down every single bit of Alien Craft that I saw. PS I have 8 bases and all of them cover the earth with 100% accuracy (changed that little setting in the ruleset)

I have also had two countries (USA and India) pull out of funding .. Thank goodness I am a communist!

As in the original game, it is impossible to stop certain alien missions from being completed such as base and infiltration - as soon as all UFOs spawn the mission will be considered complete and the alien base will be placed.

Hobbes, I come to thee once with graver tidings. Alas I hath attempted upon my steed to research either of Sectoid Commander or Gazer Commander having pummelled their fortress to the ground and making away with their bodies for further understanding of their foul arts. Unfortunately my steed hath suffered a 'CTD' and can no longer proceed.

As usual I have attached the culprit save file. I must give credit - even with my cheats the game is very enjoyable!!

I've fixed this on 0.7.3, which I've just uploaded to the mod site. With 0.7.3 you can research both commanders on the saved game you have posted.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 28, 2015, 09:36:35 am
As in the original game, it is impossible to stop certain alien missions from being completed such as base and infiltration - as soon as all UFOs spawn the mission will be considered complete and the alien base will be placed.


Not entirely true with respect to base. During an investigative mood, I had actually stopped a base from being constructed if I prevent the craft from reaching the land mass. How did I check this - In the first run, I let the craft reach the land mass and then checked the area and there was a base. In the second and third runs, I destroyed the crafts before they could see land and there were no bases.

However I think there are some that do not require a craft to be generated per se. I still need to do more research on this. Curiously the bases that I couldn't recall any crafts for were located in regions which weren't shown e.g. Central America.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 28, 2015, 09:39:21 am
If infiltration mission succeeds and country signs a pact, the base is auto build then.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 28, 2015, 02:46:23 pm
If infiltration mission succeeds and country signs a pact, the base is auto build then.

That would explain the American base. It is just a pity after destroying the two bases in that region - that funding is still nil. Perhaps I should tamper with the code .. when I get home.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 28, 2015, 05:43:44 pm
Not entirely true with respect to base. During an investigative mood, I had actually stopped a base from being constructed if I prevent the craft from reaching the land mass. How did I check this - In the first run, I let the craft reach the land mass and then checked the area and there was a base. In the second and third runs, I destroyed the crafts before they could see land and there were no bases.

This has been discussed for years and the OXC developers looked into the original game code to confirm it: you can't prevent bases or infiltrations by shooting down the UFOs, only delay them. When the final UFO is spawned the base is automatically placed by the game, doesn't matter if it has reach land or not.

Quote
However I think there are some that do not require a craft to be generated per se. I still need to do more research on this. Curiously the bases that I couldn't recall any crafts for were located in regions which weren't shown e.g. Central America.

All bases require either an Alien Base or Infiltration missions with their corresponding UFOs to be generated. Central America is not a game region - its area belongs to North America in the game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 28, 2015, 05:52:14 pm
This has been discussed for years and the OXC developers looked into the original game code to confirm it: you can't prevent bases or infiltrations by shooting down the UFOs, only delay them. When the final UFO is spawned the base is automatically placed by the game, doesn't matter if it has reach land or not.

Interesting - I feel a bit better. I was getting disappointed.

PS what are the other differences between 0.7.2 and 0.7.3?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 28, 2015, 06:00:13 pm
Interesting - I feel a bit better. I was getting disappointed.

PS what are the other differences between 0.7.2 and 0.7.3?

Graphic fixes for the alloy clips, more variety of races during alien Terror missions (before it was limited to only 6 different alien combinations, now its 30 or 40), plus the correction on the Phaser's Stun/Smoke settings. Probably a few other minor tweaks/fixes that I'm not remembering now but nothing really important.

At this stage I'm not going to add new content like weapons, aliens or missions, but I might add more new terrains or civilian units. I want to finish this expansion so that I can start working on other stuff :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on September 28, 2015, 09:23:00 pm
Graphic fixes for the alloy clips, more variety of races during alien Terror missions (before it was limited to only 6 different alien combinations, now its 30 or 40), plus the correction on the Phaser's Stun/Smoke settings. Probably a few other minor tweaks/fixes that I'm not remembering now but nothing really important.

At this stage I'm not going to add new content like weapons, aliens or missions, but I might add more new terrains or civilian units. I want to finish this expansion so that I can start working on other stuff :)

Nice one. In my culture, we would say the Lord God enrich thy creative bank such that you may continue producing such marvels.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on September 29, 2015, 01:05:43 am
At this stage I'm not going to add new content like weapons, aliens or missions, but I might add more new terrains or civilian units. I want to finish this expansion so that I can start working on other stuff :)

I was hoping you might consider reusing the Omega weapons. It could continue the Alloy weapons tech tree and add additional 20% damage increase in damage with 10-15% more ACC. The guns could use 1-2 Elerium to build. Also I wonder if you could make the same motion scanner Tycho did for TFTD Extender. With Mind probe, the scaner has double the range and only detects aliens.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 29, 2015, 02:08:42 am
I was hoping you might consider reusing the Omega weapons. It could continue the Alloy weapons tech tree and add additional 20% damage increase in damage with 10-15% more ACC. The guns could use 1-2 Elerium to build.

I could be convinced of adding some railgun type weapon, specially with the Elerium requirement but there's a bigger issue to me regarding the Omega weapons. I took the sprites them out of XOps XenoOperations mod (along with several aliens) and one major reason behind their removal from Redux is that I'm waiting for XenoOperations next release to see if I can make it and Redux compatible, which then would allow players to use its assets. But XOps hasn't given an ETA for a next release though.

In any case, I'd really prefer not to add more new weapons at this time, and I haven't made my mind if the alloy ammo needs a slight boost or not. I'm curious about how you guys have experienced the difficulty curve so far during tactical missions before you got lasers or plasmas. Although I'm trying to find an actual need to add railguns because I can't much difference between them and alloy other than stats.

Quote
Also I wonder if you could make the same motion scanner Tycho did for TFTD Extender. With Mind probe, the scaner has double the range and only detects aliens.

Your best chance there is to look at OpenXCom Extended and see if Yankees has implemented anything similar since that would require a customized .exe and I both lack the skills or the interest to go that deep into modifying OXC. Also, my interest now is to get Redux to 1.0 so new stuff isn't a priority at the moment (although something new is coming thanks to Warboy's recent work).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 29, 2015, 05:36:51 am
Nice one. In my culture, we would say the Lord God enrich thy creative bank such that you may continue producing such marvels.

Thank you but it's not just me that He should enrich, since most of what you see was created by other modders of the community. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on September 30, 2015, 01:43:44 am
Meanwhile, 0.7.4 is under works and it will include the Mudranger, designed by NKF.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/screen059.png)

I'm also redesigning the mission structure to trim down the number of alien missions and to increase the role of the Overseer. The Overseer alien mission will be now generated starting in February, and it can have 3 different objectives, chosen randomly: Facility Attack, with the Ship/Defense/Research variations; Infiltration, with the corresponding defection and base generated; and starting in June, Interdiction, which triggers a retaliation attack at an XCom base.

All of these Overlord missions can still be stopped by the player by researching certain topics: Ethereal Commander stops Interdiction, Data Disk 5 stops Facility Attacks and Data Disk 6 stops Infiltrations. Reaching all 3 topics completely prevents the Overseer from being generated.

I'm also thinking if the Alien Hive mission should generate an alert instead of having to detect the alien transport and assault it while landed.

And Gauss weapons (railguns) will make an appearance on 0.7.4. There's only Pistol, Rifle and Heavy Gauss, and they have 38, 50 and 62 AP damage, roughly less 1/6 of their laser equivalents, and placing them halfway between alloy ammo and laser. They will cost about the same as laser weapons and require alloy ammo, elerium and ufo power source research.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on October 01, 2015, 02:28:19 pm
Hobbes, where do we get disks 4 to 6? The attacks are building up. I had 4 alien missions within seconds at a point near the end of the month. I have taken to deliberately destroying UFO over water to prevent investigating a crash.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 01, 2015, 03:00:24 pm
Hobbes, where do we get disks 4 to 6? The attacks are building up. I had 4 alien missions within seconds at a point near the end of the month. I have taken to deliberately destroying UFO over water to prevent investigating a crash.

Disk 4 appears only on the Facility Extraction mission, Disk 5 appears only on the Liaison Base mission (which you need to research Disk 4 to the mission to appear) and Disk 6 appears only on the Alien Hive mission (which you need Thin Men research for the mission to be generated).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 03, 2015, 11:18:03 am
In any case, I'd really prefer not to add more new weapons at this time, and I haven't made my mind if the alloy ammo needs a slight boost or not. I'm curious about how you guys have experienced the difficulty curve so far during tactical missions before you got lasers or plasmas.

Currently I'm in May and didn't have any issues except that Phasor droids. They are now gone thankfully.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 03, 2015, 01:42:09 pm
I forgot to mention. The interrogation report of Thin Man has a grammar error: Initially the subject was initially.......
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 03, 2015, 05:53:34 pm
Currently I'm in May and didn't have any issues except that Phasor droids. They are now gone thankfully.

You can still see encounter them...

I'm finishing 0.7.4 and it will have what I hope is the final weapon set. Gauss weapons have been added and are available for research after Alloy Ammo and Elerium projects are completed. They have the TFTD stats for Aim and TU but they still fire conventional bullets and they are less powerful than lasers (Gauss rifle deals 50 damage).

To make room for them, I removed the Laser Gun and Carbine, plus I restored unlimited ammo to the lasers. I've also added new graphics for the Laser Sniper Rifle, plus I've updated the Minigun to a slightly more powered laser version (40 damage, but only fires 3 shots for auto, 15% TU usage).

I like this solution since it continues conventional weapons development close to lasers and it makes a storyline connection with TFTD. On TFTD Gauss was developed from plasma weapons tech, on Redux it is developed from applying the alien tech to conventional weapons, and this knowledge is combined later with plasma tech on TFTD to recreate a more powerful Gauss.

I forgot to mention. The interrogation report of Thin Man has a grammar error: Initially the subject was initially.......

Fixed, thanks :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on October 04, 2015, 01:30:08 pm
Right I got the Overseer mission in October 1999. There was a commander on board - an Ethereal commander. However I had already captured one from a base in September and researched it getting the Cydonia or Bust topic (still researching it though - looks like a long one). So no more Interdictions .. Just waiting to get Disk 4,5 and 6.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 04, 2015, 02:23:57 pm
Right I got the Overseer mission in October 1999. There was a commander on board - an Ethereal commander. However I had already captured one from a base in September and researched it getting the Cydonia or Bust topic (still researching it though - looks like a long one). So no more Interdictions .. Just waiting to get Disk 4,5 and 6.

You already missed the opportunity to grab the disks. You need to interrogate Thin Man and then watch out for an incoming UFO the following month to get disk 5, and this needs to happen before September IIRC. For disk 6, you need to interrogate first Human Agent, then do the Facility Extraction mission to get disk 4, research it before August and then win the Liaison Base mission to get disk 6.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 05, 2015, 05:13:28 am
And version 0.7.4 has just been uploaded to the mod site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/AMDEGCZI100420151023.png)

List of changes:
* Mudranger (author NKF) added to the Slums terror site mission as the exit area
* The additional Infiltration and Facility Attack missions have been replaced by the Overseer. The Overseer UFO now starts appearing right on February and triggers a Facility Attack or an Infiltration mission, and starting in September, there'a also the chance of it performing an Alien Interdiction, which triggers a retaliation attack at an XCom base. All of those additional alien missions can still be permanently stopped by researching Data Disks 5 & 6 and interrogating an Ethereal Commander.
* Alien Hive mission (where Data Disk 6 can be retrieved inside the Cargo Ship) now generates an alert instead of having to detect the alien transport and assault it while landed.
* Gauss weapons have been introduced, requiring Alloy Ammo and Elerium to be researched. There's only Pistol, Rifle and Heavy Gauss, and they have 38, 50 and 62 AP damage, roughly less 1/6 of their laser equivalents, and placing them halfway between alloy ammo and laser. They will cost about the same as laser weapons and they should help the player until he/she is able to get either Laser or/and Plasma weapons.
* Minigun is now upgraded to Laser Minigun, available after Heavy Laser research, with 40 damage, 15% TU and 50% accuracy for Auto. (sounds need to be updated)
* Stormhawk Missiles and Gauss Cannon have been introduced to craft weapons. Stormhawk requires Alloy Ammo and is basically an upgrade to the Avalanches, allowing them to field more missiles (6) per launcher. Gauss Cannon research is available after Heavy Gauss. Their stats will most likely be adapted in the future.
* The appearance of Alien Elite crews in some missions has been moved to January 2000 rather than October 1999 for balance.
* Hybrid Terrorist Psi Skill has been reduced since it had a 100% success rate or close to it

After this update, my next objectives for 0.9 are roughly:
* Finish adding more civilian units
* Finish new mission type/terrain/maps for the Facility Attack missions
* Fix some Terrain Pack issues (grass inside UFOs for start)
* Fix the problems with Luke83's extra UFOs (where the inside of the UFO can be revealed from certain angles)
* Rewrite some News Briefs
* Downscale the map size of some of the new missions: Facility Extraction, Liaison Base, Capture
* Keep adjusting balance and the difficulty curve

After 0.9 is reached, development ends and from there on it's playtesting until the expansion is finished :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on October 05, 2015, 12:22:54 pm
^Well done Hobbes. Look forward to trying this out once I restart. First I want to go to Cydonia.

Finally finished the game at Cydonia. Interestingly with over 104 Psi Strength, my soldiers got mind controlled. What hope do normal people have?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 06, 2015, 02:53:24 am
Finally finished the game at Cydonia. Interestingly with over 104 Psi Strength, my soldiers got mind controlled. What hope do normal people have?

At first when reading this I thought you were just getting unlucky with Ethereal Commanders since I hadn't changed any of the Psi Skills of the vanilla aliens.

But I just checked the Psionic Equations (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Psionic_Equations) and discovered/remembered that both Psi Skill and Psi Strength are used when calculating Psionic Attack/Defense, and since I increased Psi Strength for all vanilla aliens by 50% to prevent mass psi attacks by the player, this is also responsible for the aliens exaggerated psi powers.

So what I'll do for 0.7.5 will be to keep the +50% increase on Psi Strength for the non-psi aliens and remove it from the psi aliens (Ethereals, Sectoid Leader/Commander, Hybrid). This should fix the issue while retaining the aliens resistance against mass psi attacks by the player.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on October 06, 2015, 04:02:05 am
It's a bit more involved, but it should be possible to lower their psi-skill by a certain amount instead, which would nerf their attack while still making them more resistant to psi-attacks.

Would be odd to have psi-aliens more vulnerable to psi-attacks, unless they have an "open mind", unlike XCom's psi-soldiers.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 06, 2015, 05:48:12 am
It's a bit more involved, but it should be possible to lower their psi-skill by a certain amount instead, which would nerf their attack while still making them more resistant to psi-attacks.

Would be odd to have psi-aliens more vulnerable to psi-attacks, unless they have an "open mind", unlike XCom's psi-soldiers.

If you reduce their Psi Skill then there's a risk they won't be as successful as vanilla during Psi Attacks, unless you calculate precisely the Psi Attack/Defense formulas.

If it gets odd then I'll simply remove or reduce the boost in Psi Strength for non-psi aliens. Easier and less complicated than trying to calculate to get the same behaviour.

Meanwhile, here's a pic of all of Redux's enemies (aliens and humans) and civilians.

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/KTFVBAWG100520151001.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 08, 2015, 01:27:23 am
From the last picture like this I remember seeing light drone from Xenonanuts. Have you removed it ?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 08, 2015, 01:40:02 am
From the last picture like this I remember seeing light drone from Xenonanuts. Have you removed it ?

Yeah I removed it some time ago because I don't want to be using unit assets from other XCom or XCom-inspired games, with the exception of the Thin Man since its sprites were created from zero, and the TFTD civilians.

Meanwhile that pic is already outdated since I've just added more civilians for 0.7.5 by raiding Piratez's units :)

I'm also considering adding a new alien from Piratez's units to complement the Phaser/Stalker but I'm going to need someone to create the UFOPaedia interrogation/autopsy:
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Mr. Quiet on October 08, 2015, 05:14:27 am
Been wanting to see the mudranger in action someday!! Woohoo!!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 13, 2015, 03:27:55 am
Version 0.7.5 uploaded to the mod site (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/ufo-redux)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/SOTTZJEM101220150831.png)

List of changes:
* More civilian units added, plus further civilian randomization. Expect a lot of bikinis on Island terrain, amongst others.
* Desert Plane, Tundra Plane and Polar Plane terrains added. Ever wondered where that missing airliner went? Aliens did it, of course.
* Bug fixes for grass appearing inside UFOs and HWPs getting stuck in caves
* Graphic fixes for the Gauss weapons, plus replaced the Multi-Launcher sprites with the ones from the former MJ12 Multi Launcher
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 13, 2015, 10:43:43 am
Super!!!  :P
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 13, 2015, 02:10:25 pm
I'm considering making a special mission to investigate a crashed plane. Would you mind if I do, Hobbes?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 13, 2015, 02:18:58 pm
I'm considering making a special mission to investigate a crashed plane. Would you mind if I do, Hobbes?

Go ahead :)

Meanwhile, you can simply copy the relevant files on Redux's /MAPS, /ROUTES and/TERRAIN folders to update the Terrain Pack.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 13, 2015, 02:31:17 pm
Go ahead :)

Meanwhile, you can simply copy the relevant files on Redux's /MAPS, /ROUTES and/TERRAIN folders to update the Terrain Pack.

Yep, I will, and I think I'll update the Piratez too. Thank you!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 13, 2015, 02:58:19 pm
Yep, I will, and I think I'll update the Piratez too. Thank you!

If you're going to use the Crashed Plane I've just updated the 0.7.5 zip file with some corrections to the MCD files.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 13, 2015, 03:06:20 pm
I'm considering making a special mission to investigate a crashed plane. Would you mind if I do, Hobbes?

I agree,
in the plane you could found a report about an Alien / MIB / other faction  activity/infiltration on Normandy beach
over there you could found something else of valuable ...

I like special missions very much because them force me to face off them without hesitations or waiting complete some research or manifacture events: 8)

UFO Redux go  proper in  this direction   :P



Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 13, 2015, 08:51:29 pm
0.7.5 is not available on mod site.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 13, 2015, 09:11:09 pm
0.7.5 is not available on mod site.

It was uploaded but I also got an error when trying to download it. I've reuploaded it and it looks to be working now.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 13, 2015, 09:31:23 pm
Having a CTD on geoscape. Load the save and just advance the time. Once a research is done, advance more and there should be CTD.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 13, 2015, 10:38:13 pm
Having a CTD on geoscape. Load the save and just advance the time. Once a research is done, advance more and there should be CTD.

You're running his on 0.7.5 right? The issue is that you started the game on a early 0.7 version and something changed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 13, 2015, 10:47:16 pm
You can throw at me anything if this will fix the game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 13, 2015, 10:53:18 pm
You can throw at me anything if this will fix the game.

I actually cannot choose what the RNG gods will decide, but this should fix the issue.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 12:06:47 am
Ok, it works but I didn't get any facility attack you changed it to something else?

Also Mr. Pink?

I've noticed a bug. I have laser Minigun instead of Minigun and in Ufopedia it says it fires laser beams. This shouldn't be like this?

And a question about Multi Launcher. The gun itself looks like it can hold 4 shots while the clip has 3.  It finally has some more power. 
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 12:13:35 am
Ok, it works but I didn't get any facility attack you changed it to something else?

It might take a little longer but you should get one of the new missions. To me it appears around the 14th using the saved game I posted.

Quote
Also Mr. Pink?

Oh, forgot that the name would appear on Research, I'll need to change that then. Mr. Pink comes from Quentin Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs movie.

Quote
I've noticed a bug. I have laser Minigun instead of Minigun and in Ufopedia it says it fires laser beams. This shouldn't be like this? 

It's not a bug but it's related from the latest changes: I've upgraded the Minigun for a Laser version, that becomes available after Heavy Laser research. But since you already had it on your stores...

Quote
And a question about Multi Launcher. The gun itself looks like it can hold 4 shots while the clip has 3.  It finally has some more power.

The gun looks like it can hold 4 rounds? I've recently changed its sprite, are you getting the new one?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 12:34:20 am
You mean not appear (Mr. Pink). I've captured him and he is nowhere in the research.

There is also issue with the new corpses. After research you can still research them for the news reports. Pretty odd.

And the multi launcher. For me it looks like it has holes for 4 rockets.

(https://i61.tinypic.com/1z4j2b4.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 12:53:11 am
You mean not appear (Mr. Pink). I've captured him and he is nowhere in the research.

Hmmm, are you sure you captured him? I'm asking because you can capture them but not recover their bodies for autopsy. I've added a Human Agent to the stores of your main base on the saved game and it appears available for research.

Quote
There is also issue with the new corpses. After research you can still research them for the news reports. Pretty odd.

I'm starting to feel tempted to remove the news reports because it is not working 100% and it would require a new feature to properly work.


Quote
And the multi launcher. For me it looks like it has holes for 4 rockets.

(https://i61.tinypic.com/1z4j2b4.jpg)

Yeah... well, I guess it could look both ways. The original designer of the weapon (for UFO2000) had them only with 3 rounds. Should I increase them to 4?

PS - I have no idea why that UFO Power Source is not appearing during the mission that you've posted on Strategycore. The map has it, but I can't explain why it isn't present during the game. Have you seen this bug on a vanilla game (only using 'official' mods)?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 01:14:10 am
About Mr. Pink, I think he is not capturable. There is no indication that he was captured even though he was stunned. Load this save and stun him. I've captured also Gazer, so the post mission report will show only 1 alien captured.

As for Multi Launcher, I would think that 4 missiles would be fine. And as for missing power sources, it's only in your mod. Haven't played that standalone more UFO layout mods. It's pretty annoying when you don't get power source on landed UFO.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 02:38:01 am
About Mr. Pink, I think he is not capturable. There is no indication that he was captured even though he was stunned. Load this save and stun him. I've captured also Gazer, so the post mission report will show only 1 alien captured.

OK, finally figured out the bug, has to do with a requirement that I had no idea about (its corpse needs to be assigned recovery points even though you can't recover their corpses... don't ask why this is in place cause I got no idea).

Quote
As for Multi Launcher, I would think that 4 missiles would be fine. And as for missing power sources, it's only in your mod. Haven't played that standalone more UFO layout mods. It's pretty annoying when you don't get power source on landed UFO.

I've increased the capacity of the MultiLauncher to 4.

I have a suspicion about the missing Power Sources, although it doesn't make sense. I need to ask about Warboy to confirm this, and if so it will require quite a few map edits. Do you only see this on Redux or in other mods that use the Terrain Pack?

Just give me 10 minutes to wrap some things up and I'll publish a version with the fix for the Human Agent and the other stuff you reported.

Did you get the Special mission around the 14th?

EDIT - I've uploaded 0.7.6 to the mod site. Thanks for all the feedback :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 09:17:15 am
Redux is the first major Mod I'm playing so I can't tell if it's happening elsewhere.

I haven't reached 14th May yet. Should this be this secret Thin Man mission ?

Edit:

I've just advanced time and did not get anything special on 14th.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 14, 2015, 11:28:16 am
Hobbes didn't you attempt to fix the Gras in the UFO Bug?
Maybe this is related to the fact Power Srouces not showing up?

But doubt it.

Maybe one of the last refactors SupSuper did screwed up the UFO PowerSource routine or so??
Just took a look at the last changes and maybe this could be the source of the Problem.

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 14, 2015, 02:56:08 pm
Hobbes plz check your YAML anchor usage on line 7274 in file: UFO_Redux_Terrains.rul

The way you written the YAML anchro here with "&" mean you will define it, but i presume you wanted to call his values, plz check.

I also presume line 827 in UFO_Redux_Geoscape.rul contains a wrong Texture asignment (-47) which is not defined anywere.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 08:21:55 pm
Hobbes didn't you attempt to fix the Gras in the UFO Bug?
Maybe this is related to the fact Power Srouces not showing up?

But doubt it.

Maybe one of the last refactors SupSuper did screwed up the UFO PowerSource routine or so??
Just took a look at the last changes and maybe this could be the source of the Problem.

Yeah, this is what I suspect but I need to ask Warboy since I can't find on the code the section that deals with adding the Elerium item to the Power Sources.

Hobbes plz check your YAML anchor usage on line 7274 in file: UFO_Redux_Terrains.rul

The way you written the YAML anchro here with "&" mean you will define it, but i presume you wanted to call his values, plz check.

I also presume line 827 in UFO_Redux_Geoscape.rul contains a wrong Texture asignment (-47) which is not defined anywere.

Ah, the first YAML error is actually repeated in more terrains.

The wrong texture assignment might also be causing an error I've noticed before, on RuleRegion.cpp, which I haven't been able to find yet but I could be looking in the wrong place.

I'm going to upload now 0.7.7 which fixes both errors.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 14, 2015, 08:27:57 pm
Yeah, this is what I suspect but I need to ask Warboy since I can't find on the code the section that deals with adding the Elerium item to the Power Sources.

Ah, the first YAML error is actually repeated in more terrains.

The wrong texture assignment might also be causing an error I've noticed before, on RuleRegion.cpp, which I haven't been able to find yet but I could be looking in the wrong place.

I'm going to upload now 0.7.7 which fixes both errors.

Actually i just pulled in the latest code from github and vanilla and my own Mod are working correctly regarding the generation of Power Sources, so no trouble there.

Btw i like how those numbers scroll down on me, and i notice a wrong texture asignment, just out of the fucking reason, because this number in this doesn't match the other numbers in this row :D

Patters are dicks sometimes :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 08:41:13 pm
Actually i just pulled in the latest code from github and vanilla and my own Mod are working correctly regarding the generation of Power Sources, so no trouble there.

Btw i like how those numbers scroll down on me, and i notice a wrong texture asignment, just out of the fucking reason, because this number in this doesn't match the other numbers in this row :D

Patters are dicks sometimes :)

Can you post a link to the relevant code on git?

You wrote that your mod is working correctly regarding the Power Sources, does that apply also to the Pack terrains that you're using? If this is related to them the culprits should be the Savannah, Grassland, Steppe and Taiga terrains, plus the Forest Polar and Jungle Polar.

OK, it does not seem to be related to the terrains. The attached pic shows an instance where the Power Source wasn't generated but the landing zone does not have an object on that location.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 09:27:20 pm
I've just advanced time and did not get anything special on 14th.

In that case I think you just lost a country to infiltration...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 14, 2015, 09:39:17 pm
Can you post a link to the relevant code on git?

You wrote that your mod is working correctly regarding the Power Sources, does that apply also to the Pack terrains that you're using? If this is related to them the culprits should be the Savannah, Grassland, Steppe and Taiga terrains, plus the Forest Polar and Jungle Polar.

OK, it does not seem to be related to the terrains. The attached pic shows an instance where the Power Source wasn't generated but the landing zone does not have an object on that location.

I just downloaded your Mod and decided to let test around a little, using the newest github code.
And so far the New Battles i generated with the Large Scout UFO, have all had the power source generated, so no clue what is causing this on your end.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 09:45:57 pm
I just downloaded your Mod and decided to let test around a little, using the newest github code.
And so far the New Battles i generated with the Large Scout UFO, have all had the power source generated, so no clue what is causing this on your end.

It took me 4 or 5 attempts until I got a Large Scout without the Power Source. What ever is causing this seems to require some specific conditions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 14, 2015, 09:48:22 pm
It took me 4 or 5 attempts until I got a Large Scout without the Power Source. What ever is causing this seems to require some specific conditions.

Which terrain did this occur on? I tested Jungle Swamp and all others upwards in the drop down list.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 09:50:32 pm
In that case I think you just lost a country to infiltration...

Then I think there is a flaw in the Thin Man thing. If they choose a base where I've just started building there is no way I can detect this other than keep Darkstars on site until radars are built. They should chose the location of the main base.

On other side note:

(https://i61.tinypic.com/dy0v90.jpg)

Don't know who that guy was and how many Mr. Pink-likes you have there.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 10:34:13 pm
Then I think there is a flaw in the Thin Man thing. If they choose a base where I've just started building there is no way I can detect this other than keep Darkstars on site until radars are built. They should chose the location of the main base.

You'll get an alert for the Thin Man mission when it is generated.

Quote
On other side note:

(https://i61.tinypic.com/dy0v90.jpg)

Don't know who that guy was and how many Mr. Pink-likes you have there.

That's a placeholder since I don't have a BigOb image for the Thin Man Corpse yet. I have already fixed the names though.

Which terrain did this occur on? I tested Jungle Swamp and all others upwards in the drop down list.

I got the bug on Jungle Polar. It may depend on the version of the Large Scout that is used but that doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on October 14, 2015, 10:47:20 pm
I think I've just encountered the same thing in FMP v1.71(nightly 2015-09-18), no power source-see picture. I am going to update to v1.72 and nightly 2015-10-10 after this mission and see how that goes.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 11:28:51 pm
Hmm, that can be Thin Man, because I have a Thin Man corpse in research lab and this must be something else right?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2015, 11:37:10 pm
I think I've just encountered the same thing in FMP v1.71(nightly 2015-09-18), no power source-see picture. I am going to update to v1.72 and nightly 2015-10-10 after this mission and see how that goes.

Is that Forest Mountain terrain?

Hmm, that can be Thin Man, because I have a Thin Man corpse in research lab and this must be something else right?

If I am understanding you correctly then yes, Thin Man can appear on other missions that the special one mentioned above.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: SIMON on October 14, 2015, 11:51:06 pm
It may be but where are the mountains around Bristol, UK, no offence to anyone from Bristol.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 14, 2015, 11:55:26 pm
I think I've got Thin Man mission. Is it simply called Alien Activity and the mission description is something that we have found Docked UFO and something something strange signal? It didn't spawn on city spot.
If so it spawned two months after interrogation.  And that corpse with placeholoder name doesn't yield any research results.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 15, 2015, 12:07:45 am
I think I've got Thin Man mission. Is it simply called Alien Activity and the mission description is something that we have found Docked UFO and something something strange signal? It didn't spawn on city spot.

That's the one.

Quote
If so it spawned two months after interrogation.  And that corpse with placeholoder name doesn't yield any research results.

OK, I think I figured it out: you researched the captured Human Agent and it became a corpse, which you shouldn't be able to research but I forgot to remove the code that allowed it (I added it when I was trying to fix the issue with captured human agents not appearing)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 16, 2015, 12:21:01 am
Stormhawk missiles have reload speed of avalanche however I've noticed than when UFO started to outrun interceptor, it fired them like crazy every second.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 16, 2015, 05:18:01 am
Stormhawk missiles have reload speed of avalanche however I've noticed than when UFO started to outrun interceptor, it fired them like crazy every second.

Just checked, the original author set their firing rate for Aggressive to be the same as the Stingrays. Let's try with the Avalanche's values.

Meanwhile... a old UFO2000 terrain called Airfield (the original author was Twilight Owl, not me) is rising from the dead...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/AIRBASE01.gif)

I still haven't made my mind if I'll finish converting it to the Area51 sprites and use it for the Facility Attack missions. Or if I keep its original look (check below) and just add it as a Terror Site, which requires less work.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/AIRFIELD01.gif)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 16, 2015, 08:44:17 am
It would be cool to have a airport terror mission ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 16, 2015, 10:20:17 am
I actually made my own Airfield Terrormission, with the Area 51 base stuff,
but if there is already a finished and dedicaded Terrain for this, i can only appreciate it finding its way into OpenXcom and in the Terrain Pack.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 16, 2015, 08:43:55 pm
I think I've just encountered the same thing in FMP v1.71(nightly 2015-09-18), no power source-see picture. I am going to update to v1.72 and nightly 2015-10-10 after this mission and see how that goes.

OK, I just noticed something important about the vanilla Farm terrain. One of the landing zone maps also has objects (CULTA07) so everything should work (UFO Power Sources being always present on landed UFOs) even on my maps. In other words this bug can also happen on the vanilla terrains, if it is being caused by objects on maps used for landing zones.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 17, 2015, 01:06:43 am
I have a question. Did you play standard game with this mod? Meeting Sectopods in early Jun where you still don't have lasers is just pointless. Large Rockets just don't make any dent in it.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 17, 2015, 01:12:01 am
I have a question. Did you play standard game with this mod? Meeting Sectopods in early Jun where you still don't have lasers is just pointless. Large Rockets just don't make any dent in it.

I did but I already had managed to get Lasers when Ethereals started appearing. And yeah, that doesn't sound very fun, indeed. The Area 51 mission gives the chance to recover lasers and it will appear from May to August.

I personally think that those kind of missions are simply for the player to skip until he/she is prepared to deal with them. But I'm open to suggestions for rebalancing.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 17, 2015, 02:21:20 am
Lucky I've managed to finish mission objective and the sectopods were not with Etherals but the super combo mixture of Overlords and their sparkly friends, Muton & Celatids, Gazers and Holodrones, Snakeman and Sectopods.... why not Chryssalids I've got in previous terror mission, why Sectopods  :'(

A good balance is when player is not forced to skip missions. Any mission should be doable unless it's story driven mission where story dictates that you must retreat. Either remove Sectopods from this strange combo or give a player more damage.  I don't know, cyberdiscs are common first half of the month, maybe a somekind EMP grenade after researching corpse.

Also what was the path for psionics? I've reserched medic, then Sectoid Leader and reserched Psionics but it looks like I don't have any follow up. Do I need that cursed scientist?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on October 17, 2015, 02:25:19 am
Others might say good balance is when the aliens win 50% of the missions :o Or when casualties on both sides are equal :o

I'd say designing the game to require skipping some missions is totally acceptable if you don't want players to just stroll through to Cydonia.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 17, 2015, 02:57:22 am
Lucky I've managed to finish mission objective and the sectopods were not with Etherals but the super combo mixture of Overlords and their sparkly friends, Muton & Celatids, Gazers and Holodrones, Snakeman and Sectopods.... why not Chryssalids I've got in previous terror mission, why Sectopods  :'(

You got unlucky. On month 6 there are 52 possible combinations of races for Terror missions, although the 7 Mixed race combinations have a bigger chance of being randomly selected.

Quote
Also what was the path for psionics? I've reserched medic, then Sectoid Leader and reserched Psionics but it looks like I don't have any follow up. Do I need that cursed scientist?

Yes. Getting the Alien Scientist is required for all the major alien tech. But if you got Medic then it unlocks Mind Probe (which you will also need for psi) and the Small Launcher (which also unlocks a variety of new ammo types for it). I can give you a couple tips where to find the scientist, unless you prefer to figure it out by your own.

Quote
A good balance is when player is not forced to skip missions. Any mission should be doable unless it's story driven mission where story dictates that you must retreat. Either remove Sectopods from this strange combo or give a player more damage.  I don't know, cyberdiscs are common first half of the month, maybe a somekind EMP grenade after researching corpse.

Others might say good balance is when the aliens win 50% of the missions :o Or when casualties on both sides are equal :o

I'd say designing the game to require skipping some missions is totally acceptable if you don't want players to just stroll through to Cydonia.

When I started designing Redux I had the intention of bumping up difficulty but it progressed I also learned that fun is as important or if not more important than increasing the challenge. Thus to me now skipping or losing missions is acceptable but it can't be the norm like a 50% success rate implies.

The EMP grenade is a good idea but realistically there's no way to implement a weapon specific to counter a race with the vanilla mechanics, which to me are sacred at this point - I don't want to go the way of custom OpenXCom builds required to play and add changes that then most likely will require other changes to balance and it's almost impossible to end this process.

Thus, I had already considered making laser tech more easy to get, either as it being unlocked by completing Gauss research, or by changing the dates of the Area 51 mission where the laser tech can be recoverable so that it can appear earlier (right now it will appear through May-August). The last one will involve some changes to the current mission structure but I already had that on my plans.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on October 17, 2015, 07:06:42 am
@Sectopod trouble. Add Laser Rocket? :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 17, 2015, 10:36:53 am
Others might say good balance is when the aliens win 50% of the missions :o Or when casualties on both sides are equal :o

I'd say designing the game to require skipping some missions is totally acceptable if you don't want players to just stroll through to Cydonia.

We're talking here at player skill now. Average player will have stats like this. If you haven't take a look for example at NeptunsNookGames LP advertised on the first page. He is playing average with some signs of getting better and he has lots of casualties, some missions he had to abort, so everything is in the right place. But when a good player comes, you're perfect ratio is now broken, since good player will manage the difficulty. But if you throw unpenetrable wall, then there is a problem.  May-August is a bit late for Area 51. March-May may sound better.

@Sectopod trouble. Add Laser Rocket? :)

More like that Laser Cannon from HALO series ;) Anyway the only problem with the Sectopods in June is the problem with late access to laser tech anyway. Maybe if you're super lucky with the scientist. I'll get one, but simply did not found right UFO for it. I had two bases which none had scientist/commander.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on October 17, 2015, 11:45:23 am
My idea was to add that 'laser' rocket before you get access to the whole lasers family, just you could tackle Sectopods even before you get the tech to make all these laser mass alien extermination devices :) Well, you can always take them out easily with Incendiary Grenades, anyway (unless Hobbes increased Fire Res on Sectopods; in vanilla they take full damage from fire, making them an easy prey).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 17, 2015, 06:02:04 pm
March-May may sound better.

More like that Laser Cannon from HALO series ;) Anyway the only problem with the Sectopods in June is the problem with late access to laser tech anyway. Maybe if you're super lucky with the scientist. I'll get one, but simply did not found right UFO for it. I had two bases which none had scientist/commander.

Yeah, I'll look into moving the Area51 mission closer to those dates, and most likely reduce the temporal range when the mission appears.

For the scientist, there's almost a 50% chance of it appearing each month, but you still need to discover and capture it. But once you know where it appears it becomes a matter of hunting.

My idea was to add that 'laser' rocket before you get access to the whole lasers family, just you could tackle Sectopods even before you get the tech to make all these laser mass alien extermination devices :) Well, you can always take them out easily with Incendiary Grenades, anyway (unless Hobbes increased Fire Res on Sectopods; in vanilla they take full damage from fire, making them an easy prey).

Well, the idea of a 'laser rocket' doesn't make much sense, gameplay wise. I understand the logic of using the lasers' 1.5 damage modifier to prevent the laser rocket from being too effective against other units. But it wouldn't be logic for such a rocket to be so effective against Sectopods and not everything else and every player that knows how a laser works would frown at the concept of a laser rocket (is it propelled by lasers? does it project a laser beam when explodes?)

Sectopods with Incendiary Grenades... you'll need a lot of them on vanilla, unless you're playing the original which has the 'funky fire' bug that makes them more useful. Damage from incendiary only deals 5-10 damage per hit, regardless of the weapons' power (the listed damage would counts towards setting the terrain on fire). Since a Sectopod has 96 health it would take a lot of grenades to kill a Sectopod. Incendiary on vanilla isn't really that useful to kill units, except Sectoids and aliens with increased damage modifiers for IN.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on October 17, 2015, 06:32:10 pm
Sectopods with Incendiary Grenades... you'll need a lot of them on vanilla, unless you're playing the original which has the 'funky fire' bug that makes them more useful. Damage from incendiary only deals 5-10 damage per hit, regardless of the weapons' power (the listed damage would counts towards setting the terrain on fire). Since a Sectopod has 96 health it would take a lot of grenades to kill a Sectopod. Incendiary on vanilla isn't really that useful to kill units, except Sectoids and aliens with increased damage modifiers for IN.

2x2 units take quad damage from area-effect weapons, including fire, making that 20-40 per hit. This makes Sectopod done for in 3-5 hits, even not including the secondary burning. I've checked this on Redux a few months ago with Incendiary Grenades; it took only about 3 of them to kill Cyberdiscs. Nobody was doing that in vanilla, naturally, since easily-obtainable laser rifles were good enough for both terror units, while being much more effective against 1x1 enemies.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 17, 2015, 07:41:55 pm
2x2 units take quad damage from area-effect weapons, including fire, making that 20-40 per hit. This makes Sectopod done for in 3-5 hits, even not including the secondary burning. I've checked this on Redux a few months ago with Incendiary Grenades; it took only about 3 of them to kill Cyberdiscs. Nobody was doing that in vanilla, naturally, since easily-obtainable laser rifles were good enough for both terror units, while being much more effective against 1x1 enemies.

Oh, that's right, I forgot about the quad damage. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 17, 2015, 07:53:21 pm
Area 51 is way over populated. I'm like 16 turns in the game and I haven't moved 10 tiles away from the Skyranger. And all those aliens. Mutons, Sectoids, Snakeman, Floater, Waspites, Overlords, Chryssalids, Reapers, Cyberdisc, Cybermites, Ghost things, Overlord sparkly friends, Celatids, Silicods, Gazers, Holodrones Thin Man and Mr. Yellow. Have I missed something?

How on Earth you can grab the 3 disks, if every step there are like 5 aliens to kill you.

About INC and Sectopods. Good luck dodging sectopod for 5 turns.  Also you know that Sectopod Armour is like 80 (under armour) and Cyberdisc is puny? That initial damage will not pierce Sectopods armour. Or at least shouldn't. It's the same as power armour.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on October 17, 2015, 08:27:10 pm
About INC and Sectopods. Good luck dodging sectopod for 5 turns.  Also you know that Sectopod Armour is like 80 (under armour) and Cyberdisc is puny? That initial damage will not pierce Sectopods armour. Or at least shouldn't. It's the same as power armour.

5 turns? Lol, just a single turn (a full one, though - it's best to kill with inc grenades, inc ammo is cumbersome considering you can miss/it requires a dedicated fire trooper with ACannon/the beast may fire back). Who said I have to limit myself to a single incendiary round per turn? Oh and that armor? Fire doesn't pierce armor, it ignores armor ^_^ Not saying Sectopods are easy, especially with a large crowd of infantry support... but when spotted far enough, they can be easily killed by fire. Actually did that to Sectopods in my mod (a single flamer burst, and bye-bye), they were unmodified, just like in Redux... but I wanted to give an example from Redux, since not everyone here might be familiar with my flamethrower design (also I was stupid and took only a single RL with just 4 Heavy Rockets on that mission, that's why I had to use Inc Grenades against these damned Cyberdiscs in the first place :) ).
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 17, 2015, 09:26:38 pm
Area 51 is way over populated. I'm like 16 turns in the game and I haven't moved 10 tiles away from the Skyranger. And all those aliens. Mutons, Sectoids, Snakeman, Floater, Waspites, Overlords, Chryssalids, Reapers, Cyberdisc, Cybermites, Ghost things, Overlord sparkly friends, Celatids, Silicods, Gazers, Holodrones Thin Man and Mr. Yellow. Have I missed something?

How on Earth you can grab the 3 disks, if every step there are like 5 aliens to kill you.

Here's my answer to whether I should reduce the map size of Area 51 (something I had also considered). :)

Yeah, I already had this feeling: the original Area 51 of version 0.5.4 had human enemies and while it meant a long mission it was also easier to finish. There's going to be a major downscaling of those large missions but this will also require some other changes affecting the data disks.

5 turns? Lol, just a single turn (a full one, though - it's best to kill with inc grenades, inc ammo is cumbersome considering you can miss/it requires a dedicated fire trooper with ACannon/the beast may fire back). Who said I have to limit myself to a single incendiary round per turn? Oh and that armor? Fire doesn't pierce armor, it ignores armor ^_^ Not saying Sectopods are easy, especially with a large crowd of infantry support... but when spotted far enough, they can be easily killed by fire. Actually did that to Sectopods in my mod (a single flamer burst, and bye-bye), they were unmodified, just like in Redux... but I wanted to give an example from Redux, since not everyone here might be familiar with my flamethrower design (also I was stupid and took only a single RL with just 4 Heavy Rockets on that mission, that's why I had to use Inc Grenades against these damned Cyberdiscs in the first place :) ).

Well, I also share silencer_pl's opinion that it isn't that easy to deploy so many IN grenades or heavy cannon shots to kill a Sectopod in a single turn, specially if you're fighting 10 different alien species at the same time as the norm in Redux. IN affecting Cyberdiscs/Sectopods doesn't really bother me but I might reduce their modifier to 0.5 to make the quad damage less useful.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Arthanor on October 17, 2015, 10:01:51 pm
@silencer_pl: You get the 20-40 damage every time you hit with an incendiary round, you don't have to hope that the unit catches fire and then wait. Just keep setting it on fire until it drops. The tactic is odd, but it works quite well.

It isn't that unrealistic that napalm would damage these guys a fair amount. Electronics are known to not like overheating, and all you need is one more failure than there are redundancies. With heat, you're slowly damaging every component instead of hoping for a lucky shot to pierce armor and damage important stuff.

In combination with flamethrowers, I think the decrease of their damage modifier makes sense, otherwise it is rather easy to cook 'em (especially if your flamethrower can hit up to 8 times, which means you can kill it in one salvo so it never has an opportunity to return fire). But if you just have cannons, rockets and grenades, it's still difficult enough to pull off, even though it is an important "hidden" vulnerability.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 17, 2015, 10:13:12 pm
@silencer_pl: You get the 20-40 damage every time you hit with an incendiary round, you don't have to hope that the unit catches fire and then wait. Just keep setting it on fire until it drops. The tactic is odd, but it works quite well.

It isn't that unrealistic that napalm would damage these guys a fair amount. Electronics are known to not like overheating, and all you need is one more failure than there are redundancies. With heat, you're slowly damaging every component instead of hoping for a lucky shot to pierce armor and damage important stuff.

I agree with fire affecting electronics but at the same time I would be odd that an advanced alien race didn't consider the effects of heat when designing war machines or even fire destroying them, which is even odder. It's a bit like earth bacteria in War of The Worlds or water in that Signs movie.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 18, 2015, 12:08:03 pm
You should also make the disks indestructible. Since I need all 3 of them and aliens run rampage and for some I need high explosives, you get the idea?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 18, 2015, 12:21:18 pm
You should also make the disks indestructible. Since I need all 3 of them and aliens run rampage and for some I need high explosives, you get the idea?

Hmmm, can I make a Data Disk Armour if I gather enough of them? :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 18, 2015, 01:10:37 pm
Looking through the rulsets disk labeled Disk 5 has armour 255, why not disk 1-3 :P

Anyway I know this sounds silly, but mission important items should be recoverable even when nuked from high orbit.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 18, 2015, 01:59:31 pm
Looking through the rulsets disk labeled Disk 5 has armour 255, why not disk 1-3 :P

Anyway I know this sounds silly, but mission important items should be recoverable even when nuked from high orbit.

Armor 255 will not protect them form getting nuked with Blaster Bombs, i gave my Store Items armor: 1000 to be sure they can not be destroyed.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 18, 2015, 02:56:41 pm
Didn't know you could assign that kind of value. I still thought that 255 is max value.

Ok after killing 20+ aliens I had enough I've set fatal wound to all alliens. There were like 50+ aliens on this map. No way anyone could finish it. Maybe with extreme save scumming and having super accurate soldiers. Not in a million years an average player will beat this mission. If this mission wasn't research critical important maybe I wasn't that mad about it. But since it gives lasers, better HWPs and Aircraft I find it pretty important to finish. Double so if you will move it to March-May. Also like I said above the disks should be indestructible despite the silly joke of disk armour.

I don't mind the size of it or the variety of the aliens. It's just way too many. Here are my few thoughts how to change this mission.

Option 1:
Reduce the alien count to standard terror mission. Leave map as is. Having big map can also be difficult since aliens can be anywhere. You can stick with all kinds of aliens but I would advise not to use as more as 1 special aliens such as Phasor droids, Stalkers or Energy Aliens. I had like 3-4 Phasors, 3-4 stalkers, and 4-5 Energy aliens. And since energy aliens currently can be downed by explosives that's 1-3 rockets away from cyberdiscs.  Player doesn't know where the disks are (not sure if their spawn is random) so finding them with such amount of aliens is impossible. INC damage vs Stalkers and Phasors is very unreliable. Sometimes I can throw 2 grenades and he will die on end turn sometimes he will die 3 turns later.

Option 2:
Make it two parter. Reduce the aliens on the first and have x-com kill them all. Next you move to part 2, which is purely grab & run. Here you could bring those super special aliens. The path for disks should not be complicated however player needs to keep pushing because the tough aliens will start closing in and murderising X-COM agents. Player could make a stand ground but soon he will realize that he will not succeed.   The only problem here I can see is that there is no way for player to take items from Skyranger to next part I mean not the indirect way. To offset this, you could place player in armoury where there would be enough weapons for player to choose from. Here is also a chance to give a player unique looking weapons. For example prototype laser rifle or something.

For me those special missions should be special in all kind of way. Not only cool map.

I know I'm bad at such discussions, but I hope that you will take some notes and improve this mission to manageable levels.

Also a questions about Mr Pink, Yellow, Green and whetever colours there are. Are everyone is needed for anti colaboratours mission ? If Mr. Yellow only spawns at Area 51, then this is bad place for him too. I was in such a position that I had to take team from other base where capturing facilities and weapons where unavailable.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 18, 2015, 04:07:09 pm
Didn't know you could assign that kind of value. I still thought that 255 is max value.


I think it's more of a challenge if you cannot simply nuke the entire building and then get the disk from the rubble.

Quote
Option 1:
Reduce the alien count to standard terror mission. Leave map as is. Having big map can also be difficult since aliens can be anywhere. You can stick with all kinds of aliens but I would advise not to use as more as 1 special aliens such as Phasor droids, Stalkers or Energy Aliens. I had like 3-4 Phasors, 3-4 stalkers, and 4-5 Energy aliens. And since energy aliens currently can be downed by explosives that's 1-3 rockets away from cyberdiscs.  Player doesn't know where the disks are (not sure if their spawn is random) so finding them with such amount of aliens is impossible. INC damage vs Stalkers and Phasors is very unreliable. Sometimes I can throw 2 grenades and he will die on end turn sometimes he will die 3 turns later.

Option 2:
Make it two parter. Reduce the aliens on the first and have x-com kill them all. Next you move to part 2, which is purely grab & run. Here you could bring those super special aliens. The path for disks should not be complicated however player needs to keep pushing because the tough aliens will start closing in and murderising X-COM agents. Player could make a stand ground but soon he will realize that he will not succeed.   The only problem here I can see is that there is no way for player to take items from Skyranger to next part I mean not the indirect way. To offset this, you could place player in armoury where there would be enough weapons for player to choose from. Here is also a chance to give a player unique looking weapons. For example prototype laser rifle or something.

Two-part missions are off the table at this point. I hated those in TFTD since they prolong the mission so much and that's why I removed them from Ship Attacks.

I was considering all this last night and my idea is to reduce the map size to 60x60 and reduce the alien numbers from the current 43 (min) - 66 (max) to closer to base defense/assault: 22 min - 28 max aliens. Mission will also take place instead in March-April, so Energy Aliens, Overlords, Mutons and Gazers will not appear.

The disks are always spawned in the same buildings. But if I reduce the map size to 60x60 then I'll remove the Improved HWPs and Craft disks and just add those techs to the regular research tree, so the mission is essentially to find and recover the laser disk.

Quote
For me those special missions should be special in all kind of way. Not only cool map.

Yeah, my issue right now is to get the right mix so that the mission doesn't become a chore, but since these missions are completely new from the original it's a matter of trying.

Quote
Also a questions about Mr Pink, Yellow, Green and whetever colours there are. Are everyone is needed for anti colaboratours mission ? If Mr. Yellow only spawns at Area 51, then this is bad place for him too. I was in such a position that I had to take team from other base where capturing facilities and weapons where unavailable.

You just need to capture 1 of them, regardless of their color (their names have been already replaced to 'Human Agent'). They appear also in Area 51 and the other Facility Attack missions so that you have more opportunities for capture.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 18, 2015, 09:24:22 pm
By the way, I forgot to mention. There is a bug with the Red disk in Area 51. I've put the disk on 1x1 slot next to the 1x2 slot in belt next to medikit and the medikit went invisible - it was there just wasn't drawn. I could pick it up and it was visible but once put back it went invisible again. When I moved the disk to other slot it was ok.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 18, 2015, 10:20:33 pm
By the way, I forgot to mention. There is a bug with the Red disk in Area 51. I've put the disk on 1x1 slot next to the 1x2 slot in belt next to medikit and the medikit went invisible - it was there just wasn't drawn. I could pick it up and it was visible but once put back it went invisible again. When I moved the disk to other slot it was ok.

Thanks, fixed.

I just finished converting Area 51 mission to the description I added before. I also added the Mudranger as the craft for this mission. I also kept the Gazers as possible to appear during the mission, although in low numbers.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 18, 2015, 10:34:17 pm
Since you're moving lasers towards early months what about Gauss Weapons? Will you remove them? I've tried the Gauss Rifle now. First of all - should the bullets be invisible? Secondly I don't know if they are worth building. Sure they are light, nice replacement for LMG, but still AC-AA rounds deal better damage and don't cost Elerium. With lasers coming earlier maybe make Gauss a post Plasma Gun to have very high AP damage.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 18, 2015, 10:54:00 pm
Since you're moving lasers towards early months what about Gauss Weapons? Will you remove them? I've tried the Gauss Rifle now. First of all - should the bullets be invisible? Secondly I don't know if they are worth building. Sure they are light, nice replacement for LMG, but still AC-AA rounds deal better damage and don't cost Elerium. With lasers coming earlier maybe make Gauss a post Plasma Gun to have very high AP damage.

Nope, bullets shouldn't be invisible, bug there.

Gauss was conceived as a crude reverse engineering of alien tech - a design costly to produce and limited in capacity but that is superior to most conventional weapons. AC-AA has better damage, but AC + Clip weights 24, Gauss Rifle + Clip weights 11. I've just removed the Elerium required from the clips and moved them to the weapons instead, though.

Gauss probably could be set as requirement for Plasma tech once you capture the scientist. At this point I don't really feel like adding it as a top tier weaponset because it would involve redesigning a few things and you risk making plasma weapons redundant.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 19, 2015, 12:43:55 am
Finished Thin Man terror mission. Overall good scary mission, but felt a bit prolonged. Took me an hour to finish. Got 40 aliens. Found some 2 bugs:

Chrissy got stuck.
(https://i61.tinypic.com/70xu7o.jpg)

Either stairs aren't finished or they blew up, either way could only enter through far end:
(https://i61.tinypic.com/2mwto29.jpg)


Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 19, 2015, 12:58:57 am
Finished Thin Man terror mission. Overall good scary mission, but felt a bit prolonged. Took me an hour to finish. Got 40 aliens.

This one is going be to reduced from 100x70 to 70x60.

Quote
Chrissy got stuck.

I had spotted it before, thought I had already fixed it. Thanks.

Quote
Either stairs aren't finished or they blew up, either way could only enter through far end:

Blew up, just got a guy upstairs on New Battle.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 19, 2015, 10:42:35 am
...Took me an hour to finish. Got 40 aliens.

In my humble opinion, with full respectful of the ideas of others,

For me

In turn base strategic game time is not a problem: you could pause or save and suspend in any moment.

40 alien on a huge scenario when well distribute are not a block issue

but the mission has to be balanced about ammunitions and suitable weapons.

In general, special missions could/have to be very difficult, but them should be completed.




Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 19, 2015, 10:59:34 am
In essence, having higher aliens numbers on a bigger map for example 60x60, isn't that much of a concern.
You need to adapt the laiens which do occur, so that the player can tackle them.

This includes, the time the mission occurs, the research the player has so done so far,
what kind of equipment is he able to bring towards the mission.

The alien he encounters should be killable by his techlevel, Ammunition is a concern, but you always can bring spares and send a soldier on
destribution duty.

What is more critical is the aliens going into a mass panic. Even Terrorunits can panic if enough of their comrades are killed in quick sequence.
The higher the numbers, the faster the player kills the aliens, the more visible becomes this.

If your alien numbers go over 28 aliens you can increase bravery to prevent a mass panic.
Indeed special Mission should be hard as fuck and unique in their apperance.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 19, 2015, 05:03:50 pm
40 alien on a huge scenario when well distribute are not a block issue

but the mission has to be balanced about ammunitions and suitable weapons.

In general, special missions could/have to be very difficult, but them should be completed.

In essence, having higher aliens numbers on a bigger map for example 60x60, isn't that much of a concern.
You need to adapt the laiens which do occur, so that the player can tackle them.

This includes, the time the mission occurs, the research the player has so done so far,
what kind of equipment is he able to bring towards the mission.

The alien he encounters should be killable by his techlevel, Ammunition is a concern, but you always can bring spares and send a soldier on
destribution duty.

What is more critical is the aliens going into a mass panic. Even Terrorunits can panic if enough of their comrades are killed in quick sequence.
The higher the numbers, the faster the player kills the aliens, the more visible becomes this.

If your alien numbers go over 28 aliens you can increase bravery to prevent a mass panic.
Indeed special Mission should be hard as fuck and unique in their apperance.

The question is the 'sweet spot' - some people will enjoy 40+ aliens on a huge map, others will find it tiring. The more I develop Redux the more I go back to the original settings - raising alien bravery to deal with mass panic has the side effect that all aliens will be affected so they'll panic less than original.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 19, 2015, 10:51:21 pm
But Hobbes said he doesn't like two parters because it prolongs the mission, which he did exactly the same in large big missions. And I can finish trawlers in 30 minutes ;)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: GrossorMD on October 20, 2015, 12:13:10 pm
Hmm, one question to regular players here: How balanced is this, combat-wise? I'm concerned that the new weapons might be a bit OP (?)

PD: laser minigun is bugged, can buy it at the market with no research prerreqs
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 20, 2015, 09:56:36 pm
But Hobbes said he doesn't like two parters because it prolongs the mission, which he did exactly the same in large big missions. And I can finish trawlers in 30 minutes ;)

Meanwhile I've already reduced the Area 51 mission to 60x60 (from 80x80) and the Facility Extraction to 80x40 (from 100x60). Next ones on the chopping block are Liaison Base to 80x40 (from 100x100) and Docked Ship to 70x50 (from 100x60). Liaison Base will be the reverse of the Facility Extraction (you start outside and have to invade the base instead of escaping the base to the outside). The Capture mission will also be reduced from 70x70 to 60x60. Several of these missions now use the Mudranger APC or exit areas to deploy XCom squads instead of craft.

And I've also created a new mission, Facility Recovery, which is the opposite of Facility Defense, so you can get either scenario during the Facility Attacks. Both of those missions are 80x80 but at this point reducing their size would be nearly impossible without extensive map redesign and I'm not that concerned since most of the space is empty.

Hmm, one question to regular players here: How balanced is this, combat-wise? I'm concerned that the new weapons might be a bit OP (?)

PD: laser minigun is bugged, can buy it at the market with no research prerreqs

Just checked with 0.7.7 and I don't see the Laser Minigun available on the Buy/Purchase menu, so maybe you're using an older save/version. Could you please check if that's the case?

Which of the new weapons do you think are OP? Conventional ones? Laser/Plasma ones?

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 20, 2015, 10:41:58 pm
Base defense is again bugged. CTD. Same issue as previously upper level CTD.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 20, 2015, 10:45:04 pm
Base defense is again bugged. CTD.

I need more details or a save game.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 20, 2015, 11:43:18 pm
Load this and change to floor 2.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 21, 2015, 12:16:14 am
Load this and change to floor 2.

The fix is on the zipped file, just place the ruleset on the /RULESET folder of Redux and replace the existing one.

Usually these crashes are caused by a missing FLOOROB image for objects on the ground.

EDIT: Almost done with the re-sizing of the larger terrains, only need to finish Capture and Polis.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on October 21, 2015, 03:59:59 pm
Nice work Hobbes. I will restart this mod when I finish Piratez Extended.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 21, 2015, 10:13:46 pm
Work keeps progressing, I think I lost track of the amount of changes for 0.7.8, so here's another image to help me remember.

Rising from the UFO2000 limbo, here's Airfield (original author Twilight Owl, IIRC)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/VIQIWCQJ102120150312.png)

Next terrain... Siberia. Edit: why the hell did I create Siberia with 46 individual map blocks? Oh man...
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 21, 2015, 11:18:40 pm
Cheers !!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 21, 2015, 11:28:16 pm
Work keeps progressing, I think I lost track of the amount of changes for 0.7.8, so here's another image to help me remember.

Rising from the UFO2000 limbo, here's Airfield (original author Twilight Owl, IIRC)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/VIQIWCQJ102120150312.png)

Next terrain... Siberia

OMG!!! Now i am really start to hate having exams *grml*
This is so awesome!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 22, 2015, 06:33:05 am
Cheers !!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I've already started working on Siberia, although it will be... well it won't have the river anymore because it doesn't really work for what I intended. And the underground base will be a bit darker.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 22, 2015, 07:04:54 am
Hobbes,

we can now customize the graphicv shown in the alert message, see here (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commit/c9769f78c60a8aa8f2dd019a3ff35843a0ab60c8)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 22, 2015, 07:09:25 am
Hobbes,

we can now customize the graphicv shown in the alert message, see here (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commit/c9769f78c60a8aa8f2dd019a3ff35843a0ab60c8)

That will be nice. Thanks for the heads up :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 22, 2015, 08:58:03 am
That Hellipad needs a Heli.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 22, 2015, 01:00:42 pm
That Hellipad needs a Heli.

I can extract concept tile from here

(https://www.jagged-alliance2.de/pics/ja2uc.jpg)

if that could bu usefull instead that start from scratch
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 22, 2015, 02:06:44 pm
I can extract concept tile from here

(https://www.jagged-alliance2.de/pics/ja2uc.jpg)

if that could bu usefull instead that start from scratch

I had already thought of getting some tiles from Jagged Alliance but I wouldn't know how to design that heli.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 22, 2015, 02:32:49 pm
I found a tool to extract bitmap from Jagged Alliance 2 resources 8)

I tried to extract Sub Way tile set from Urban Chaos mod, I posted some picture of its scenario.

Unfortunately tile hight  is double than XCom ... there is a little option to split it in two part but the work is over mine competence and free time  :'(

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 22, 2015, 02:36:57 pm
From what mod is that screen? Urban Chaos?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 22, 2015, 06:50:35 pm
Yes
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2015, 08:58:18 pm
I hope someone makes that heli. I need that heli because of important reasons.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 22, 2015, 10:53:22 pm
I've found a scientist <victory dance>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 22, 2015, 11:07:42 pm
I've found a scientist <victory dance>

Congratulations. You've just unlocked the final secrets of alien tech :)

A couple of upcoming new maps for the new missions: Laboratory and Missile Base

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 23, 2015, 04:55:34 am
Something dark is coming...

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/MKNBAYDG102220150955.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 23, 2015, 11:53:55 am
A couple of upcoming new maps for the new missions: Laboratory and Missile Base

Beautiful maps as usual  :P

If have you some free tile pos, you could add some static weapon or other structures such as missile lancher, radar, turbine, etc
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 23, 2015, 02:45:07 pm
Beautiful maps as usual  :P

If have you some free tile pos, you could add some static weapon or other structures such as missile lancher, radar, turbine, etc

I already have access to the pics you posted but I don't have time or the skills to convert them to be used for XCom tiles.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 23, 2015, 02:47:51 pm
Something dark is coming...

I asked it many times ... Thank you very much !

With the usually maximum estimation of your efforts,

do you ask Warboy if is it possible landing with craft ?

For an other scenario of the same class, in the past I ipotized that "unused vanilla" Pyramid Ufo map could be used as esternal entry point for alien base
(both one stage than two stage missions)

Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 23, 2015, 03:11:44 pm
I asked it many times ... Thank you very much !

With the usually maximum estimation of your efforts,

do you ask Warboy if is it possible landing with craft ?

For an other scenario of the same class, in the past I ipotized that "unused vanilla" Pyramid Ufo map could be used as esternal entry point for alien base
(both one stage than two stage missions)

davide, actually this isn't the Siberia terrain but the XBase+ terrain from UFO2000 with major adaptations ;D

It is impossible to use this terrain for alien base assaults, unless you change the height defined in alienDeployment and change the vanilla AlienBase maps to add the additional levels. But I'm not interested in this.

I've already tried adding craft but for some reason the engine places the XCom units elsewhere on the map. But using craft on this scenario only serves to waste time unnecessarily by having to deploy from it since nearly all aliens will start underground. So I'm going to set the purple starting area to be placed randomly in one of the 4 corners.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 23, 2015, 03:14:13 pm
I already have access to the pics you posted but I don't have time or the skills to convert them to be used for XCom tiles.

Me too, but could be that an other your fan could make it
These objects as prospective I think that are near to your white "City Car" or to "round command table" of Ufo tileset

For the pics I used STIview utility
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 24, 2015, 12:22:40 am
Did you buff Supply UFOs or where they so super Battleship tough in the first place? Also why is that the aliens with designated armour make ARMOUR PIERCING bullets even weaker? I mean isn't ARMOUR PIERCING designed to PIERCE armour and do less damage for normal flesh? While armour should make HE damage do less and non-armoured should take extra damage?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 24, 2015, 01:05:14 am
Did you buff Supply UFOs or where they so super Battleship tough in the first place? Also why is that the aliens with designated armour make ARMOUR PIERCING bullets even weaker? I mean isn't ARMOUR PIERCING designed to PIERCE armour and do less damage for normal flesh? While armour should make HE damage do less and non-armoured should take extra damage?

I haven't changed anything concerning vanilla UFO stats or damage modifiers. And regarding the rest of vanilla stats I've only changed (off the top of my head):
* Less range for Laser and Plasma Cannons craft weapons
* Psi Strength of non-psionic aliens increased by 50%
* Incendiary modifiers for Sectopods and Cyberdiscs reduced from 100 to 50 (for upcoming version 0.7.8)
* Research/Manufacture times increased by 50%

There's always a race involved between offensive and defensive weapons. At the end of World War II armies started adopting HEAT (High Explosive, Anti-Tank) rounds to defeat tanks. But then tank armor evolved to reactive armor, meant to defeat or make less effective HEAT rounds. So then armies developed APFSDS (Armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot) rounds to defeat reactive armor... I think you get the point I'm trying to get across.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 24, 2015, 01:34:04 am
Why ship laser cannon has less range when it was useless in the first place?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 24, 2015, 02:21:05 am
Why ship laser cannon has less range when it was useless in the first place?

I use Laser Cannons. Both cannons were reduced in range to make interceptors close in the UFOs and allow UFOs to fight back.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 24, 2015, 03:33:02 pm
... davide, actually this isn't the Siberia terrain but the XBase+ terrain from UFO2000 with major adaptations ;D

...therefore there is still hope for Siberia canyon ...  ::)

I joke  ;D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 24, 2015, 04:22:45 pm
What's the correlation with Firestorm and Flying Suit?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 24, 2015, 04:27:41 pm
...therefore there is still hope for Siberia canyon ...  ::)

I joke  ;D

Actually, I've just finished converting Storm Mountain terrain and I'm about to start working on Siberia. :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: CDRom on October 25, 2015, 02:00:51 am
Hi Hobbes, first play through for me, great mod so far +10. Got a CTD at Area 51, save file attached, just end the round and CTD.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 25, 2015, 02:41:38 am
Hi Hobbes, first play through for me, great mod so far +10. Got a CTD at Area 51, save file attached, just end the round and CTD.

Hey there. :)

Just had a look at your save file, I confirm the crash but this looks like an OpenXCom bug because it is caused by a Silacoid trying to go upstairs, but everything from Redux side looks OK.

It is possible to continue the game without a crash though, if the Silacoid decides to move somewhere else. Just move the HWP a bit and see if the game doesn't crash anymore. Otherwise, I think I can simply remove the offending Silacoid, if it keeps crashing after some attempts.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: CDRom on October 25, 2015, 05:06:49 am
Thanks Hobbes, I gave that Silacoid very fatal wounds via save file edit, he died, no more CTD. Finished Area 51, got the data disks. Good to go.

Big thanks again!

Hey there. :)

Just had a look at your save file, I confirm the crash but this looks like an OpenXCom bug because it is caused by a Silacoid trying to go upstairs, but everything from Redux side looks OK.

It is possible to continue the game without a crash though, if the Silacoid decides to move somewhere else. Just move the HWP a bit and see if the game doesn't crash anymore. Otherwise, I think I can simply remove the offending Silacoid, if it keeps crashing after some attempts.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 25, 2015, 05:13:54 am
Hobbes you gonna make a proper Bug report out of this for our developers, since this Silicoid Bug is around for a while now or?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 25, 2015, 06:02:47 am
Hobbes you gonna make a proper Bug report out of this for our developers, since this Silicoid Bug is around for a while now or?

I think a little bird will land on the developer's shoulder and whisper it to him.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 25, 2015, 05:01:35 pm
Have you increased UFO spawns? Everyday or two I'm now getting 2-3 Very Large, 2-3 Large and few small missions. Most of them land so I'm like have 3000 Elerium storage and currently can't spend on anything, because you've increased research time. Probably when I reach Fusion Ball Launcher I'll have like 1000 of them in each base :) but with so many missions per month it's really becoming a choir.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 25, 2015, 05:29:40 pm
Have you increased UFO spawns? Everyday or two I'm now getting 2-3 Very Large, 2-3 Large and few small missions. Most of them land so I'm like have 3000 Elerium storage and currently can't spend on anything, because you've increased research time. Probably when I reach Fusion Ball Launcher I'll have like 1000 of them in each base :) but with so many missions per month it's really becoming a choir.

I haven't changed the number of UFOs spawned on vanilla missions but I have added 1 new alien mission (Overseer). It is possible though that you're getting repeated flybys, where the game for some reason repeats the same Overseer mission over and over, although I thought I had fixed this.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 25, 2015, 05:30:46 pm
But overseer flyby doesn't land and I'm getting a lot of landed missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 25, 2015, 09:50:23 pm
But overseer flyby doesn't land and I'm getting a lot of landed missions.

It could be just a combination of the delays when you shoot down UFOs, and how UFO missions in the oceans land on the continents surrounding the waters. What I know is that I haven't changed anything about the vanilla UFO missions.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: GrossorMD on October 25, 2015, 10:55:39 pm

Just checked with 0.7.7 and I don't see the Laser Minigun available on the Buy/Purchase menu, so maybe you're using an older save/version. Could you please check if that's the case?

Which of the new weapons do you think are OP? Conventional ones? Laser/Plasma ones?

after rechecking it appears that it only APPEARS on the ufopaedia without research... but it's not for sale. My mistake


I was concerned that grenade launchers might be OP (because of previous experiences with mods that introduced such indirect-fire weapons). However, after a few battles, I think it's not the case in redux: ammo, TU, accuracy and armor adequatedly balance them here, IMO.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 26, 2015, 01:44:19 am
What's the correlation with Firestorm and Flying Suit?

No changes from vanilla, Flying Suit requires Power Suit and New Fighter Craft research.

after rechecking it appears that it only APPEARS on the ufopaedia without research... but it's not for sale. My mistake

I was concerned that grenade launchers might be OP (because of previous experiences with mods that introduced such indirect-fire weapons). However, after a few battles, I think it's not the case in redux: ammo, TU, accuracy and armor adequatedly balance them here, IMO.

I've fixed the Laser Minigun appearing on the UFOPaedia before research. The Grenade Launcher was imported from UFO2000, including its stats.

@all

0.7.8 is taking a bit longer because of... terrains :D

I've already posted a pic of the new terrain developed from XBase+ (originally from UFO2000), but here are more UFO2000 terrains that I'm adapting.
First, this the 3rd level of Storm Mountain

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/STORM.png)

Then this is the original Siberia terrain

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/SIBERIA.png)

And finally, something very very dark is coming...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/Dark%20Dark.png)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 26, 2015, 07:28:50 am
The first one reminds me of first world war trenches somehow, looking forward to that.
The sibiria one also good.

The last looks scaaaaary as shit...

Excellent work as usual Hobbes :>
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 26, 2015, 08:52:02 am
No changes from vanilla, Flying Suit requires Power Suit and New Fighter Craft research.

From Ufopaedia:

Quote
Once you have researched the Power Suit and UFO Navigation (in either order, of course), you gain the ability to research the Flying Suit.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 26, 2015, 03:34:01 pm
The last looks scaaaaary as shit...

The last terrain is called Hive and it was the first XCom terrain I ever designed.

From Ufopaedia:

Crap you're right sorry. I changed it because it would be very likely to get Fly Suit before Plasma and to make this armor also dependent on capturing the Alien Scientist (which is required for UFO Construction). I think I'll change the requirement to UFO Construction rather than New Fighter Craft though.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 26, 2015, 03:56:12 pm
No worries, speaking of Hive, is researching Hive Data disk is the end of that? And does it provide some anti infiltration bonuses?
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 26, 2015, 03:59:44 pm
No worries, speaking of Hive, is researching Hive Data disk is the end of that? And does it provide some anti infiltration bonuses?

Yes to both. After you recover and research the Hive Data Disk it stops the additional Infiltrations that can be generated by the Overseer UFO. You can still get the vanilla Infiltrations though and the other extra missions generated by the Overseer.
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on October 26, 2015, 10:41:32 pm
These maps simply look awesome. Can't wait when you finish them :) (and I was planning to make a creepy cave map myself for tentacle monsters a new enemy race, but looks like I won't have to!)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 27, 2015, 05:37:05 pm
There's going to be so many changes and new terrains that I've decided to bump version number to 0.8 since I think there will be compatibility issues with early saves. Meanwhile, here's a progress report for 0.8:
* Finish adding more civilian units - DONE
* Finish new mission type/terrain/maps for the Facility Attack & Special missions - IN PROGRESS
* Fix some Terrain Pack issues (grass inside UFOs for start) - DONE
* Fix the problems with Luke83's extra UFOs (where the inside of the UFO can be revealed from certain angles) - DONE (temporarily, at least)
* Rewrite some News Briefs
* Downscale the map size of some of the new missions: Facility Extraction, Liaison Base, Capture - DONE
* Keep adjusting balance and the difficulty curve - IN PROGRESS

Just for the record here's a list of the upcoming new terrains:
* Tundra Forest - DONE
* Tundra Forest Mountain - DONE
* Storm Mountain (regular and Jungle versions) - DONE
* Siberia - DONE
* Complex
* Alien Colony (regular and 4 additional versions of Desert, Forest, etc) - DONE
* Alien Hive - DONE
* Airfield - DONE
* Swamp (Grassland, Steppe, Taiga, Tundra and Savannah versions) - DONE
* Mountain Temple & Mountain Polar

After I finish all of these I'll be basically done with terrain design for a long time.

There are also 3 bugs people have reported that I can't fix by myself since they don't involve Redux but that I've already discussed with Warboy:
* Silacoid crashing game when trying to go upstairs (old bug that apparently was supposed to be solved)
* UFO Power Sources sometimes are not generated on landed UFOs (no one has any idea about the reason)
* Geoscape crash (Assertion Failed) when game tries to pick a target for missions and the target area is >0 (due to a floating point issue) - FIXED
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: silencer_pl on October 27, 2015, 07:44:48 pm
-1 for the compatibility issues  :'(
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: davide on October 28, 2015, 12:09:15 am
I run the serious risk of ending requests to you... :'(

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: hellrazor on October 29, 2015, 10:58:23 am
Everyone catching subforums for free today :D
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Cristao on October 29, 2015, 12:13:33 pm
Hurray for UFO redux!
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Dioxine on October 29, 2015, 03:01:51 pm
Everyone catching subforums for free today :D

For "FREE", lol, if that's free... :) Although it was cheap for me, only 2 years of work while Hobbes gave at least 15 :)

Anyway... congratulations, Hobbes!
Title: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: Hobbes on October 29, 2015, 05:29:28 pm
Hurray, hurray. :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: davide on October 29, 2015, 07:00:10 pm
Uhm ... is it unbalanced for the Mod ?
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/flamethrower (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/flamethrower)
 ::)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: GrossorMD on October 29, 2015, 08:07:54 pm
I have to say that while I had misgivings I like this mod a lot. Adds a whole frigging lot to the original.

I do add two extra "challenges" to my games, though: I apply the "all UFOs have 65 range" mod and nerf human psionics (while boosting ethereals and sectoids quite a bit)*

*I just think  that humans shouldn't be matched to (let alone better) at psionics  than races that can use those powers without crutches and have been doing it for millenia
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on October 29, 2015, 08:42:48 pm
Uhm ... is it unbalanced for the Mod ?
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/flamethrower (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/flamethrower)
 ::)

I tried an early version of that flamethrower and I was not impressed - it requires proper animation sprites and new coding to work as a flamethrower, currently it is simply another autocannon.

I have to say that while I had misgivings I like this mod a lot. Adds a whole frigging lot to the original.

I do add two extra "challenges" to my games, though: I apply the "all UFOs have 65 range" mod and nerf human psionics (while boosting ethereals and sectoids quite a bit)*

*I just think  that humans shouldn't be matched to (let alone better) at psionics  than races that can use those powers without crutches and have been doing it for millenia

Yeah, there are little tweaks that everyone can do to increase the challenge. I actually added quite a few of those on the beginning of this mod, but the way it has evolved I've been removing more and more of those to keep the expansion as closer to the original as possible and let the player decide which tweaks to use.

For 0.8 I've restored the Hyperwave Decoder's effectiveness to 100 and removed the changes to the Craft weapons. Getting closer to the end, I think the only changes to the original stats that I'll maintain are the +50% Psi Strength increase for non-psionic aliens and the Research/Manufacture time increases.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: hellrazor on November 01, 2015, 05:03:43 pm
I do not want to spam a new topic for this.
We do now have customizeable Death sounds check it out here (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commit/61c2601c628d99083669be613876b50b74e67a8e)

Which also means adding the deathSound to all Civilians... just to mention it.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 01, 2015, 07:31:39 pm
Public Announcement

Due to the latest changes (civilians death sounds and mission briefing custom background) Redux should not properly work with the latest nightlies. You'll need the older openxcom_git_master_2015_10_01_0503 to work, which can be downloaded here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/openxcom_git_master_2015_10_01_0503.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/openxcom_git_master_2015_10_01_0503.zip).

Thanks and just hold on a bit until I finish 0.8 :)
Title: Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
Post by: niculinux on November 01, 2015, 11:59:07 pm
Hurray for UFO redux!

 ::)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: silencer_pl on November 03, 2015, 01:18:39 am
Cannot download 0.7.8

Also I'm using nightly 10-10 and it works fine with Redux.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 03, 2015, 02:02:29 am
Cannot download 0.7.8

Also I'm using nightly 10-10 and it works fine with Redux.

Just downloaded it without a problem. Here's another link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/UFO%20REDUX%20v0.7.8.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/UFO%20REDUX%20v0.7.8.zip)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 03, 2015, 07:57:40 am
This is the reason that is holding version 0.8... it is called Complex and is only about 75% done, but I think it should be interesting :)

(https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/DZLCGTHV110320151255.png)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: hellrazor on November 03, 2015, 08:17:45 am
Man this looks awesome as usual, kind of a factory / industrial setting.
Can't wait to hunt Chryssalids in this :)

I kneel down before the might of Hobbes the Terrain creator GOD!

Could you add some more of those pipes or are the just the ones from tftd?
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 03, 2015, 04:07:00 pm
Could you add some more of those pipes or are the just the ones from tftd?

I don't think more pipes are required, just did a test and shooting at one can cause a whole segment to explode in sequence. They were taken from TFTD, recolored and I've changed their explosion definitions.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: silencer_pl on November 03, 2015, 11:57:45 pm
Looks nice as long it won't have 60 aliens!
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: silencer_pl on November 03, 2015, 11:59:18 pm
Just downloaded it without a problem. Here's another link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/UFO%20REDUX%20v0.7.8.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/UFO%20REDUX%20v0.7.8.zip)

Still doesn't work (the main page). Dropbox link works though.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 04, 2015, 12:34:57 am
Looks nice as long it won't have 60 aliens!

Don't worry, for 0.8 I've rescaled all the missions to have the same numbers of a vanilla Terror Site or Alien Base Assault, and I've reduced their dimensions :)

Still doesn't work (the main page). Dropbox link works though.

I think I got it working now.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Axebeard on November 05, 2015, 01:41:14 am
I have some General Feedback. The special missions are a cool idea (until you get a bunch of the same one in a row), but some of the maps are pretty annoying. My main complaint is that there is often only one staircase leading to a particular floor, which means a loooooooong walk to get your troops where they need to be. It seems odd that there aren't more multiple points of entry on a lot of the buildings, particularly those defense missions. Oh, and the MiB base (I think it was), where there would be a staircase that goes from the first floor to the second, and one that goes from the first to the third, but no way to get from the second floor to the third. Seems illogical. And annoying when it takes 10 turns to get somewhere so close.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 05, 2015, 02:57:49 am
I have some General Feedback. The special missions are a cool idea (until you get a bunch of the same one in a row), but some of the maps are pretty annoying. My main complaint is that there is often only one staircase leading to a particular floor, which means a loooooooong walk to get your troops where they need to be. It seems odd that there aren't more multiple points of entry on a lot of the buildings, particularly those defense missions. Oh, and the MiB base (I think it was), where there would be a staircase that goes from the first floor to the second, and one that goes from the first to the third, but no way to get from the second floor to the third. Seems illogical. And annoying when it takes 10 turns to get somewhere so close.

Pics would definitely help to identify the buildings involved. Otherwise, there's some 30-40 buildings just on the Area 51 terrain (which I assume is the 'MIB base') :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: CDRom on November 05, 2015, 05:14:31 am
Hi Hobbes, getting a game killing 'assertion failed' CTD now in geoscape, save attached. Just move ahead about 2 hours gave time and CTD. This is your new version 7.8 running git master 10_1. I just downgraded to git master 10_1 so I could run your new version. Haven't tried it with a newer openxcom version as I assume that'll cause other problems per your comments. I'm really hoping this is something fixable cause I need to finish your mod before Fallout 4 comes out lol!

Also two more bugs to report. Someone else reported this one before and it's been plaguing me as well this whole time, I get swarmed with large and XL alien ships in geoscape literally by the hour, I attached an example pic. In vanilla sometimes you can go days without a detection but in your mod I can't hardly go an hour. It hasn't been game breaking so far...but man it's annoying. In vanilla a sudden swarm of large/XL usually means a base is being built in the area but I continuously patrol these areas and I'm not detecting new bases.

2nd bug, no big deal, some human agent corpses show up as 'str_human_agent...etc.' in base inventory, see attached pic.

Oh one more thing, why does the improved rocket launcher HWP have less TUs than the regular? The mission to get this tech is very hard, then the research time...then build time. The reward should be much better, surely we shouldn't suffer a loss of TU just for a gain of better resists. I already changed this for myself in the ruleset (back to 100 TUs), just proposing a discussion about the balance on this.

Now that I think of it, got another. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the Heavy Laser and the Laser Sniper Rifle, not from the Ufopedia descriptions anyway, haven't had time to check the differences in the ruleset. If they are different in the ruleset then you should change the ufopedia entry so the casual player will understand the difference, if there is no difference in the ruleset...then whats the point, total waste of valuable research time which is a premium in this mod.

Anyway totally awesome mod so far brother! Hopefully you can get back to me on my assertion failed CTD issue soon though cause I'm dead in the water right now lol!
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 05, 2015, 06:04:38 am
Hi Hobbes, getting a game killing 'assertion failed' CTD now in geoscape, save attached. Just move ahead about 2 hours gave time and CTD. This is your new version 7.8 running git master 10_1. I just downgraded to git master 10_1 so I could run your new version. Haven't tried it with a newer openxcom version as I assume that'll cause other problems per your comments. I'm really hoping this is something fixable cause I need to finish your mod before Fallout 4 comes out lol!

I got bad news, this is the 'floating point' bug I mentioned on a post a few days ago. This bug is not related to the mod but to OXC sometimes having problems determining the target's coordinates for one of the facility attacks or special missions. I'm trying to see if I can edit your save file for the game to continue.

EDIT: this bug should be fixed later.

Quote
Also two more bugs to report. Someone else reported this one before and it's been plaguing me as well this whole time, I get swarmed with large and XL alien ships in geoscape literally by the hour, I attached an example pic. In vanilla sometimes you can go days without a detection but in your mod I can't hardly go an hour. It hasn't been game breaking so far...but man it's annoying. In vanilla a sudden swarm of large/XL usually means a base is being built in the area but I continuously patrol these areas and I'm not detecting new bases.

Those are Overseer missions taking place, they consist of 7-8 Large and Very Large UFOs. But you should only get 1 of those swarms each month.

Quote
Oh one more thing, why does the improved rocket launcher HWP have less TUs than the regular? The mission to get this tech is very hard, then the research time...then build time. The reward should be much better, surely we shouldn't suffer a loss of TU just for a gain of better resists. I already changed this for myself in the ruleset (back to 100 TUs), just proposing a discussion about the balance on this.

Now that I think of it, got another. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the Heavy Laser and the Laser Sniper Rifle, not from the Ufopedia descriptions anyway, haven't had time to check the differences in the ruleset. If they are different in the ruleset then you should change the ufopedia entry so the casual player will understand the difference, if there is no difference in the ruleset...then whats the point, total waste of valuable research time which is a premium in this mod.

Both situations happen because, in addition to Redux, you're using both the Improved Tanks and Improved Lasers mods, which increase the vanilla stats of all HWPs and the Heavy Laser. Redux incorporates both those mods but they aren't available from the start - you need to get the improvements through research.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: thanquol99 on November 05, 2015, 07:26:27 am
I got this playing. What should I do to fix this? Screenshot attached.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 05, 2015, 07:30:40 am
Hi Hobbes, getting a game killing 'assertion failed' CTD now in geoscape, save attached. Just move ahead about 2 hours gave time and CTD. This is your new version 7.8 running git master 10_1. I just downgraded to git master 10_1 so I could run your new version. Haven't tried it with a newer openxcom version as I assume that'll cause other problems per your comments. I'm really hoping this is something fixable cause I need to finish your mod before Fallout 4 comes out lol!

I got this playing. What should I do to fix this? Screenshot attached.

A new OpenXCom nightly (openxcom_git_master_2015_11_05_0618.zip) has been just to https://openxcom.org/git-builds/ (https://openxcom.org/git-builds/) that solves this bug. After installing you should be able to continue your saved games. Thanks both for reporting this issue :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: CDRom on November 05, 2015, 07:58:34 am
Public Announcement

Due to the latest changes (civilians death sounds and mission briefing custom background) Redux should not properly work with the latest nightlies. You'll need the older openxcom_git_master_2015_10_01_0503 to work, which can be downloaded here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/openxcom_git_master_2015_10_01_0503.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/openxcom_git_master_2015_10_01_0503.zip).

Thanks and just hold on a bit until I finish 0.8 :)

Just to verify...the latest git, 11_05, is now good to go...10_01 is no longer necessary to play 7.8?
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 05, 2015, 03:37:11 pm
Just to verify...the latest git, 11_05, is now good to go...10_01 is no longer necessary to play 7.8?

Yes. 11_05 is good to go, you don't need 10_01 anymore.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: CDRom on November 06, 2015, 06:43:15 am
Yep no more assertion failed CTD with 11_5.

Got another new bug for ya now though...

Facility defense special mission, Edwards, Phaser alien armed with a ships freezer tray cannon lol. See pics attached. HWP leaves cover, sees Phaser, Phaser shoots at my HWP, explosions leave behind what looks like those tray objects in the freezer area of the cargo ship terror mission ha lol. They are there, can't drive though them.

I seem to becoming one of your best play testers brother Hobbes lol.

Edit, oh I have explosion damage levels set at 3 I believe.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 06, 2015, 07:04:26 am
Yep no more assertion failed CTD with 11_5.

Got another new bug for ya now though...

Facility defense special mission, Edwards, Phaser alien armed with a ships freezer tray cannon lol. See pics attached. HWP leaves cover, sees Phaser, Phaser shoots at my HWP, explosions leave behind what looks like those tray objects in the freezer area of the cargo ship terror mission ha lol. They are there, can't drive though them.

I seem to becoming one of your best play testers brother Hobbes lol.

Edit, oh I have explosion damage levels set at 3 I believe.

Wrong terrain setting :)

I've attached a quick fix this post. Just unzip it to the /TERRAINS folder of the Redux folder in /mods, thanks for the heads up :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 09, 2015, 02:10:57 am
Today I finished designing and implementing version 0.8. Here's the change list:

* Reduced Sectopd and Cyberdisc vulnerability to incendiary ammo from 100 to 50 to reduce exploit.
* Several bug fixes: Terrain Pack, Geoscape, missing images, etc.
* Removed changes to Hypewave Decoder and Laser/Plasma Cannons and Fusion Ball Launcher, restoring the vanilla stats.
* New terrains added: Desert Plane, Polar Plane, Tundra Plane, Tundra Forest, Tundra Forest Mountain, Tundra Polar, Taiga Polar, Grassland Polar, Savanna Polar, Steppe Polar, Siberia, Complex YY-18, Alien Hive, Alien Colony and Storm Mountain.
* Reworked alien missions: new terrains have been split between Alien Facility Attack and Alien Subversion Overseer UFO missions. Alien Facility Attacks now consist of recovering/defending allied facility, while on Alien Subversion player attacks hostile facilities. Capturing Thin Men, Human Agents or recovering Data Disk 4 are no longer required to activate missions. Previous unique missions like Facility Extraction can now appear regularly.
* Reworked alien missions: reduced several special mission map sizes and reduced alien numbers on all the new missions to terror site equivalents.
* Reworked alien missions: added Alien Colony Assault, Outpost Defense, Facility Recover and Airfield Attack deployments.
* Reworked alien races: added Human crews for some of the Alien Subversion missions. Reworked race distribution in alien missions for more diversity and balance. Set all alienRaces to 12 ranks, regardless of if the additional ranks are used or not.
* Reworked alien missions: Area 51 mission moved to April for balance. Capture mission moved to January and terrain set to Complex. 
* Reworked Overseer UFO: all Overseer missions are now stopped by interrogating an Ethereal Commander. The previous requirement for Data Disk 5 and 6 have been removed.
* Fixed bug where the new UFO interiors would be removed. As a side effect it is not possible anymore to 'hug' the UFO exteriors as OXC allows.
* More civilian units added

As you may see, my intention was to simplify things and prevent the game from becoming repetitive. I'm going to do a few test play runs of the new terrains/missions and I should release 0.8 in the next days. I'm hoping that afterwards there won't be any major changes so that this expansion can be finally finished :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: davide on November 09, 2015, 11:22:42 am
+100  :P

Only two question, :-[

I compared mod files between Redux and FMP, I infer that Ufo maps are aligned.

Do you plan to add the new Ufos maps and fix on them made by Hellrazor ?

Do you plan to add new Alien base maps and fix made by Hellrazor on previous Luke's mod ?

Thanks
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 09, 2015, 03:49:11 pm
I compared mod files between Redux and FMP, I infer that Ufo maps are aligned.

Do you plan to add the new Ufos maps and fix on them made by Hellrazor ?

Do you mean the Fighter, Lab Ship, etc UFOs? If so, then I'm not planning at the moment to add those.

Quote
Do you plan to add new Alien base maps and fix made by Hellrazor on previous Luke's mod ?

Thanks

You mean the Alien Base Cave or the Expanded Alien Base maps? If so, I'm not planning to add them.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: davide on November 09, 2015, 06:57:53 pm
Yes I referred to them both

There are some conflict to MCD sets that I do not recognized?  :o

Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 09, 2015, 08:07:38 pm
Yes I referred to them both

There are some conflict to MCD sets that I do not recognized?  :o

No, I'm simply not interested in adding everything available.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: davide on November 09, 2015, 11:29:53 pm
Ok, as you prefer

If there are not conflict,
I could try to add locally on my PC, some other complementary content
without upset gameplay to respect your sapient vision.

On IRC someone called you GOD of terrains ... or somethig else ;D
 indeed it is right  ::)

Apart from Piratez-Ex that is a whole new great game ,
In my opinion, 
before Redux,
FMP was a great first choice with huge new contents but probably some balance issues and flat storyboard
(I risk to say it because Solarious announce FMP+ that should  work out that)

In my opinion, 
today Redux  is a "must have" for openxcom.

but I do not want renounce   :-\ all works done from other very talent people before. :-[











 
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 10, 2015, 02:41:36 am
Ok, as you prefer

If there are not conflict,
I could try to add locally on my PC, some other complementary content
without upset gameplay to respect your sapient vision.

On IRC someone called you GOD of terrains ... or somethig else ;D
 indeed it is right  ::)

Apart from Piratez-Ex that is a whole new great game ,
In my opinion, 
before Redux,
FMP was a great first choice with huge new contents but probably some balance issues and flat storyboard
(I risk to say it because Solarious announce FMP+ that should  work out that)

In my opinion, 
today Redux  is a "must have" for openxcom.

but I do not want renounce   :-\ all works done from other very talent people before. :-[

Like you said, you can add the terrain yourself and I'm not adding stuff that I'm not fond of. To me the maps of Expanded Base arent' that interesting for several reasons, such as the purple ground squares being used everywhere (what's that supposed to represent), maps with a ton of UFO Power Sources (and a ton of Elerium to the player), etc.

Redux will never satisfy everyone - nor it is its intention.
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: davide on November 10, 2015, 11:39:36 am
Redux will never satisfy everyone - nor it is its intention.

I apologize, I did not want expresses an unfavorable opinion on your excellent work. :-[

I will take cure of your suggestions about too many Power Source on Ufo maps (unbalance issue)
and I will recheck Expanded Base for estetical aspect.... indeed I do not like purple floor too :o
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: hellrazor on November 10, 2015, 07:50:13 pm
I apologize, I did not want expresses an unfavorable opinion on your excellent work. :-[

I will take cure of your suggestions about too many Power Source on Ufo maps (unbalance issue)
and I will recheck Expanded Base for estetical aspect.... indeed I do not like purple floor too :o

The amount of Elerium-115 can be adjusted via ruleset for each powersource, if you are concerned about that.
OR you can manually place a Elerium-115 Item on the map, which currently disables the autospawn routine from Elerium-115 for each Power Source.

The Expanded UBASE Maps orientate themselves on the original Maps, i will add some more of course without those purple floors :>
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 10, 2015, 09:06:39 pm
I apologize, I did not want expresses an unfavorable opinion on your excellent work. :-[

I will take cure of your suggestions about too many Power Source on Ufo maps (unbalance issue)
and I will recheck Expanded Base for estetical aspect.... indeed I do not like purple floor too :o

Oh, I try to pay more attention to criticisms than to compliments, since those are a lot more useful (but also harder to accept). I wouldn't have chosen the words you did though, but I also tried not to pay too much attention to that detail since there's always cultural differences and 9 of 10 times you should assume that the other person is well intended despite his words :)

I already posted before about the issue at hand, which is my personal criteria for terrains, and I acknowledge that I'm very strict about them but this is because most mods you change one thing or two and I really want to go beyond that. One of the new terrains that is coming for 0.8 is Alien Hive, which was my first terrain ever developed but that I never included on the Terrain Pack/Redux because although it is a good idea it was poorly implemented 10 years ago. I'm very strict with all terrains but this comes from how I design my own terrains, and if I don't make concessions to myself on the latter, then I shouldn't on the former, unless there's a really good reason.

The amount of Elerium-115 can be adjusted via ruleset for each powersource, if you are concerned about that.

Yeah, but changes to the amount of Elerium will affect all UFO maps, so this solution isn't acceptable.

Quote
OR you can manually place a Elerium-115 Item on the map, which currently disables the autospawn routine from Elerium-115 for each Power Source.

I didn't knew about this mechanic and I'm suspecting it might be related to the UFO Power Sources spawning without Elerium. There was recently a post on the XCom subreddit about Elerium not appearing in the recovery, and the poster was using Luke's UFO mod, which Redux incorporates. The issue is that this mechanic isn't used on Luke's mod.

Quote
The Expanded UBASE Maps orientate themselves on the original Maps, i will add some more of course without those purple floors :>

The Expanded UBASE needs a complete overhaul. I like the general design of most map blocks but aesthetically and functionally they need to look and function better (purple floors, excess of UFO Power Sources, too many sliding doors, those unused Brain vats). Expanded UBASE is ok for a stand alone mod, but for Redux it needs to be better, and since I already got 2 new Alien Base terrains coming for 0.8, I don't really feel that it stands up to these two terrains. 
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: hellrazor on November 10, 2015, 09:48:57 pm
Yeah, but changes to the amount of Elerium will affect all UFO maps, so this solution isn't acceptable.

Well right if you wanna stick with the vanilla values, then of course not. I was only pointing it out.

I didn't knew about this mechanic and I'm suspecting it might be related to the UFO Power Sources spawning without Elerium. There was recently a post on the XCom subreddit about Elerium not appearing in the recovery, and the poster was using Luke's UFO mod, which Redux incorporates. The issue is that this mechanic isn't used on Luke's mod.

The Expanded UBASE needs a complete overhaul. I like the general design of most map blocks but aesthetically and functionally they need to look and function better (purple floors, excess of UFO Power Sources, too many sliding doors, those unused Brain vats). Expanded UBASE is ok for a stand alone mod, but for Redux it needs to be better, and since I already got 2 new Alien Base terrains coming for 0.8, I don't really feel that it stands up to these two terrains.

Again a overhaul? I already overworked all of the maps, fixing bugs etc.., and the general scheme orientates itself on the vanilla modules, even thou the amount of purple floors coould be reduced of course, even thou they are a lightsource (in the vanilla MCD file), so putting them in some modules increases visibility a little bit, but that isn't that much needed. There are some modules which do have many Power Sources indeed, for example the Small Scout map Modules which has 4, i guess this could be redesigned and reduced to 1 or maybe 2. Also the Mapscript i made makes sure that only 1 20x20 map module having power sources spawns ever, so you do not get flooded.
Well and the slidedoors make total sense for a base. I do no know were there could be to many of them, i tried to limit the usage of them while designing my version of the clone lab.

Hobbes, if you have any Ideas what to change make better, or do have suggestions, let me know here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3580.msg54088.html#new).
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: GrossorMD on November 11, 2015, 05:52:31 pm
Dumb question: is there any reason to use the LMG over the SMG? Or the handgun over the SMG?

It seems to me the increased damage of the LMG is trivial considering the SMG has (strangely) more ammo and is one handed.

Versus the handgun... it's basically a full auto handgun... and it's cheaper :o

Is there something I am missing?
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 11, 2015, 07:05:10 pm
Dumb question: is there any reason to use the LMG over the SMG? Or the handgun over the SMG?

It seems to me the increased damage of the LMG is trivial considering the SMG has (strangely) more ammo and is one handed.

Versus the handgun... it's basically a full auto handgun... and it's cheaper :o

Is there something I am missing?

The increased damage of the LMG is not so trivial if you start encountering Waspites at the start of the game since those things are tough to kill but you got a point with the SMG. I'm going to reduce its ammo clip to 24 and increase its TU cost.

Weight and rookie's overall low strength. LMG (12) & belt (5) are heavier than Machine Pistol (7) and clip (3), so a 25 strength rookie can only carry 1 LMG and 2 ammo Same applies to the pistol (5) ab
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: hellrazor on November 15, 2015, 07:55:43 am
Hobbes,
you might want to remove STR_ALIEN_TERROR from region missionweights in UFO_Redux_Geoscape.rul

-> because of this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3550.msg54335.html#msg54335)

The regionweights is not needed anymore since Missionscripting, as Warboy explained to me.
The regionweights for STR_ALIEN_TERRIR leads to very very bad things like STR_ALIEN_TERROR being generated with missionSiteZone: -1, which then results
in a CTD when a Terrorship tries to spawn a Terrorsite.

Savegames are also effected by this, and need to be edited.

EDIT:
One quote from Warboy
Code: [Select]
<Warboy> hellrazor_, yeah, any mission that generates a missionSite needs to exist in missionScript form only, and not in the mission weight tables
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Dioxine on November 15, 2015, 04:35:43 pm
With the newest Nightly, the mod outright fails to load because of these terror mission definitions Hellrazor mentioned (Warboy added sanity checks to avoid CTDs). Your newest version is already outdated, Hobbes :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 16, 2015, 08:52:17 am
Uploaded the links for a new 0.8b (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18824603/UFO%20REDUX%20v0.8b.zip) version that fixes the issues mentioned by hellrazor and Dioxine. Thanks both for the reports. :)
Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: silencer_pl on November 18, 2015, 09:40:55 am
Any chance making this save 0.8 compatibile? I'm getting CTD on geoscope after very large UFO spawns. Any idea why? I'm using 11-17 nightly.

Title: Re: UFO Redux - General Feedback thread
Post by: Hobbes on November 18, 2015, 05:35:58 pm
Any chance making this save 0.8 compatibile? I'm getting CTD on geoscope after very large UFO spawns. Any idea why? I'm using 11-17 nightly.

UFO was trying to spawn in a region that does not exist anymore. Try the attached save, it seems to be working on 0.8b