OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2015, 11:51:48 am
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So, I've been wondering (Hard.) about making a taller X-Com base map by adding a surface level to the underground level. Basically, adding one layer of earth above each facility, and above that place some appropriate buildings stolen from Hobbes' military installation (for example, a closed dome above each defence, a recreational area above Living Quarters, a big hatch above each Hangar, etc.). It would allow us to fight aliens on the ground before retreating underground for a second stage, if need be.
Now, the problem is, these would require many new tiles for the surface. I wonder how one would handle that... I don't really have any experience with such tricks. Guys, what do you think?
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I think it's a really cool idea and I'd love to see where it goes... I don't really have any "help" to offer though... I'm more skilled w/ making weapons than I am w/ making tiles, lol.
What about having a surface level complete w/ a very large to explore? There'd a BUTTLOAD of aliens, you'd have to boost the size landing parties by like 50% at least imo if you do that.
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What about having a surface level complete w/ a very large to explore? There'd a BUTTLOAD of aliens, you'd have to boost the size landing parties by like 50% at least imo if you do that.
Yeah, it goes without saying. Crews must be bigger then!
Having a Battleship to explore could be considered, but would it really stay around? Same for the Terror Ship.
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idk, maybe it would stick around. if the crew is so large, it would have to hang around because it's only got two unloading gates and they only have so many TUs per turn... so the base would have be a whopping seven layers high if you do that.
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Actually about 10 levels, to keep true to "at least 4 empty levels above the tallest structure" principle, to make arcing shot weapons & grenades work without much hindrance. :)
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I approve of this... I really do. This must happen! I break stuff all the time on my install, so I'd be happy to help test this if and when you do get it working.
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I think it would be a cool mod. Would you alter the spawn points as well to adjust for the layers?
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Well the question is how you wanna do this technically. I suggest vertical Map overlaying.
Do you want to rework all Base Modules? (i guess thats too much work, because it also would include the vanilla ones).
It would be more practically if we could layer the maps on top of each other.
Level 0 and 1 would be XCom or Alien Base modules, and above the Groundlevel which could include military buildings for xcom bases and Terrain according from the Terrainpack for aliens Bases of course we would need to match the Entry points, e.g. Hangars, Access Lift and the Alien Base Entries to wards a maptile which would allow the soldiers to take a lift or enter somehow.
I guess that way it could be done and we did not have to rework all maps. But create a few new ones and use use what is already there.
But just a Suggestion.
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7 layers. Base defense missins are 2 layers high, the dirt would be 1 layer and a normal battleship landing site is 4 layers high. If your going to add 2 more layers then you would want to add 2 layers to all outdoor sites.
Alternatives:
* When adding surface buildings why worry about new tiles when you could use tiles from terrorsite warehouses, Hobbes military installation, and the existing base facilities. Why not build a tileset from those and then worry about making new tiles IF you really want them.
* Warboy/Supsuper have already codded support for multi-stage missions for TFTD support. Why not ask Warboy for a way to do the following:
1. Spawn a 2 stage mission for base defense.
2. Have the second stage skipped upon a 'win' (aliens eliminated) ending in the first stage
3. Have aliens moved into the second stage upon 'aborting', instead of spawning new aliens in the second stage.
4. Optionally allow the player to choose their starting stage in a popup.
If Warboy added those features (he might have already done half of that) then you would need to create the map files for outside the base and figure out where your going to stick the battleship.
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Going on that vein, what about having two stages? Starting in the indoor stage then during stage two chasing the surviviours back to the ship to finish them off?
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7 layers. Base defense missins are 2 layers high, the dirt would be 1 layer and a normal battleship landing site is 4 layers high. If your going to add 2 more layers then you would want to add 2 layers to all outdoor sites.
Alternatives:
* When adding surface buildings why worry about new tiles when you could use tiles from terrorsite warehouses, Hobbes military installation, and the existing base facilities. Why not build a tileset from those and then worry about making new tiles IF you really want them.
* Warboy/Supsuper have already codded support for multi-stage missions for TFTD support. Why not ask Warboy for a way to do the following:
1. Spawn a 2 stage mission for base defense.
2. Have the second stage skipped upon a 'win' (aliens eliminated) ending in the first stage
3. Have aliens moved into the second stage upon 'aborting', instead of spawning new aliens in the second stage.
4. Optionally allow the player to choose their starting stage in a popup.
If Warboy added those features (he might have already done half of that) then you would need to create the map files for outside the base and figure out where your going to stick the battleship.
There was a discussion about 2 stage base defense and the idea was to switch: first stage would still be the original mission, with second stage being the assault on the Battleship that brought the aliens.
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There was a discussion about 2 stage base defense and the idea was to switch: first stage would still be the original mission, with second stage being the assault on the Battleship that brought the aliens.
Is there an echo in here? I just said that, lol
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I was thinking about doing this once I get to that stage of development for my mod.
From a balance perspective, I think adding all the levels into one map is probably going to make missions too long. And two stage missions would possibly make defense missions tedious as well.
I think I'm going to rework the bases to include the surface layer with the access lifts and maybe covers for missile launchers/pop ups but keep the rest under ground. I might even change all the spawn points to be above ground for the aliens.
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There was a discussion about 2 stage base defense and the idea was to switch: first stage would still be the original mission, with second stage being the assault on the Battleship that brought the aliens.
This idea is actually really nice!
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I think it would be a cool mod. Would you alter the spawn points as well to adjust for the layers?
Yeah, I would envisage the aliens spawning on the surface level. But everywhere and in large numbers. :)
Well the question is how you wanna do this technically. I suggest vertical Map overlaying.
Do you want to rework all Base Modules? (i guess thats too much work, because it also would include the vanilla ones).
That's what I planned, because of technical issues. But, as you write below:
It would be more practically if we could layer the maps on top of each other.
Level 0 and 1 would be XCom or Alien Base modules, and above the Groundlevel which could include military buildings for xcom bases and Terrain according from the Terrainpack for aliens Bases of course we would need to match the Entry points, e.g. Hangars, Access Lift and the Alien Base Entries to wards a maptile which would allow the soldiers to take a lift or enter somehow.
Actually, that was more or less my initial idea. I wanted two different sets of buildings: overground and underground, as well as a toggable view of the base (surface/underground).
However, I found nobody willing to write the code, and I sure am not prepared to do it myself, so I aborted this idea for the normal map, albeit 10 levels high or so (lowest two: the underground base; next one: dirt and lifts; next one: surface; the rest above: air and buildings).
I guess that way it could be done and we did not have to rework all maps. But create a few new ones and use use what is already there.
But just a Suggestion.
A good one. :)
* When adding surface buildings why worry about new tiles when you could use tiles from terrorsite warehouses, Hobbes military installation, and the existing base facilities. Why not build a tileset from those and then worry about making new tiles IF you really want them.
Yeah, I think I said I would like to use Hobbes' base.
As for the two-stage mission, I'm not really convinced. I'd prefer standard, multi-level missions, even if they could be a bit tedious (though we could make a few more entrances).
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Maybe make emergency exists for some base facilities, especially living quarters (but probably not alien containment :P)
All buildings have fire exits, in the case of a fire, it would be stupid if you absolutely have to make it to the access lift or hangars.
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Two stages would be too tedious. The more concearning fact is not that it will take time, but ammo. If you have to play through two phases of it with the puny stats X-com soldiers usually end up it will not be practical to carry arround enough ammo, except if you have dedicated ammo mule agents. Which is ridiculous.
Except if its possible to allow durring the transition phase a requip based on the stores and looted equipment. Speaking of which as I remember from TFTD, unless you pilfered the items/corpses/stunned aliens to the exit grid manually, there were no recoveries from the first level.
Regarding the battleship above the base, while I understand the sentiment, I also understand why they actually didnt do something like that in the first place. After the ground force gets wiped out why would the ship remain on site?
I support the idea of a ground level with certain camouflaged (so to speak) structures but:
Given the fact that X-com agents are hunkered down inside the base and "All x-com personel and craft have evacutated the base as per standard proceedure" x-com agents should spawn underground only, and since the attack is the underground base itself the aliens shouldnt have (IMHO) a considerable presence on the ground. Except if you do it another way: Spawn them up and have them move through the access areas down, but I dont think that the engine can give aliens directives.
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Except if you do it another way: Spawn them up and have them move through the access areas down, but I dont think that the engine can give aliens directives.
I think it wouldn't be as bad given right movement priorities on nodes. If itr works well, it would be ideal.