OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Open Feedback => Topic started by: Phoenix7786 on April 18, 2015, 09:49:16 pm
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Heya all. Loving the OpenXcom project. The mods and options are loads of fun to an already fun game. Even purist vanilla mode with bugs fixed is still incredibly fun. I saw an old thread from 2014 about openTFTD 1.0 but I was warned the thread had been dead for a long time and long story short I did not want to necro a dead thread. That being said, is openTFTD still in development? I'm eager to play through it after I finish my rerun of the original UFO Defense. I'm hesitant though unless openTFTD is still years away.
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Yes, it is in progress. Its the current goal of development. Steady progress is being made, but its not ready for testing yet. There is no estimate of when it will be done at this time, but generally speaking, I believe the goal is this year. :)
Cheers, Ivan :D
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Excellent news! I can find other stuff to keep me occupied until it's ready. Thanks for the prompt response too. If only customer service reps had the initiative this forum does.
Any general idea what kinds of bugs/fixes/tweaks might be included? I'd just love to see Coelacanth's and torpedo launchers to be usable above water. I can't' but help that restriction was just designed to torture us, unless it applies to enemies as well.
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Excellent news! I can find other stuff to keep me occupied until it's ready. Thanks for the prompt response too. If only customer service reps had the initiative this forum does.
Any general idea what kinds of bugs/fixes/tweaks might be included? I'd just love to see Coelacanth's and torpedo launchers to be usable above water. I can't' but help that restriction was just designed to torture us, unless it applies to enemies as well.
I'm pretty sure that they will make it as close to vanilla as possible, minus obvious things like bugged research. With the new engine however, I believe that it will be easy to mod the usability of weapons so that they wouldn't be restricted to solely one environment (ie Surface vs Underwater).
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Oh yuck I can well imagine how aggravating bugged research must have been. I also get why they made torpedoes unusable above water, since not all underwater munitions function out of water. However, if we know it's a terror mission above the surface of the water, why don't we have more conventional RPG weaponry? I get that the Coelacanth's weaponry is too different to be modified on the fly, but there's no reason why an Aquanaut can't simply grab an old rocket launcher.
I also had a gripe that naval base terror missions featured unarmed sailors. FFS it's a naval base don't they have guns too? I know they didn't want to make it easy on us but I would have loved to see something like the sailors fight back even if they were just using pistols. Look at how Apocalypse gave us Megapol, or the Enemy Within DLC added Security Personnel, or Xenonauts added in friendly NPC allies like local police and military forces. I wonder if it was just a limitation to the engine at the time?
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm just bitching here I love the X-com series but those gripes have always stuck with me.
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it was a limitation of the engine at the time. it was severely limited in the number of items it would allow in any given battlescape (80 per side). this limit was never implemented in openxcom, so you will see literally every equippable item in your base during the initial equip screen.
as for a progress report... we're getting there.
the main hurdles at this stage are:
resource management
metadata for mods
mission scripting
depth/altitude for geoscape
the research table
and a host of other little things too boring to mention.
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I am sure people would not ask as often if they got some screenshots or/and gameplay videos once on a while ;)
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you can see progress notes on development changes under Downloads>Nightlies on the openxcom website https://openxcom.org/git-builds/ (https://openxcom.org/git-builds/) or you can look at the same stuff on GitHub where they keep all the programming https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commits/master (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commits/master). Although the git-build downloads only work with x-com, the change notes commonly specify TFTD.
Most of the rest is probably for TFTD also. For example these are the notes for the latest nightly auto-build:
Warboy1982, Mon Apr 27 12:56:24 2015
correct constness
Warboy1982, Sun Apr 26 07:06:44 2015
add horizontal drift to particles
Warboy1982, Sat Apr 25 18:51:36 2015
fix notation for depth ranges on terrain/deployments
Warboy1982, Sat Apr 25 18:49:33 2015
add unseeded function to RNG
for specific use only.
Warboy1982, Sat Apr 25 18:48:10 2015
add func to pick random mission region
Warboy1982, Sat Apr 25 16:03:42 2015
randomize deployment type for missionSites
also refactor mission site code into a function
Horizontal drift in particles is probably TFTD underwater smoke, "depth ranges" is obviously TFTD, and I think TFTD randomized the USOs sent on an alien missions, the rest is just regular programming stuff. So Warboy was working on TFTD over the weekend.
As always, thanks for your hard work Warboy!
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As always, thanks for your hard work Warboy!
+1 that, and thanks to all the devs for making this awesome game... and I haven't even played TFTD :)
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Seriously I had a friend who was practically in tears because he had always dreamed of a fixed or more user-friendly version of X-com, or even a version that WORKS on modern systems. Thanks so much. I just wish I knew how to program, to try to help out in some way.
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Seriously I had a friend who was practically in tears because he had always dreamed of a fixed or more user-friendly version of X-com, or even a version that WORKS on modern systems. Thanks so much. I just wish I knew how to program, to try to help out in some way.
Modding is easy does not require much prior knowledge, and modders are always looking for help with testing, art, lore, feedback, etc. Feel free to help out in the ways you are able!
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you can see progress notes on development changes under Downloads>Nightlies[...]
Yeah. I got that page bookmarked :D
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It probably means nothing, but it has been 11 months since 1.0 was first released. So y'know, there's a chance that in June... maybe?
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It probably means nothing, but it has been 11 months since 1.0 was first released. So y'know, there's a chance that in June... maybe?
I'd guess that with the amount of work still to be done, it might be a bit further off than that, though I may be wrong.
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Will OpenTFTD implement changes from TFTDExtender?
As in, will gauss coelcanths be usable?
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Will OpenTFTD implement changes from TFTDExtender?
As in, will gauss coelcanths be usable?
I don't know if it will be packaged as an "official mod" but you can bet your boots that it will be modded up in a flash by the community.
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It depends on the feature.
The onespurely data-based are trivial to make with a rulefile, you can bet they will be shipped with the game as default mods.
The ones engine-based need much more work, and can be questionable if they don't have a strong following (ex: Xcomutil "Stat strings" and UFOExtender "Range-based accuracy" have many fans who always play with them).
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Does open xcom have range based accuracy? I can't seem to find it.
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If you got to the mod settings on the startup screen, there's a UFO Extender Accuracy checkbox you can set. That will affect accuracy at range and provide a percentage "popup" value when targetting enemies.
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Oh derp, yes, I found it.
Been using it the whole time actually. :-[
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Guys and gals... I have made a alien of TFTD, but this proves that the game can load.
the sprites are rendered correctly... well, most of them.
Audio is also messed up.
The game crashes on the UFOpedia, as you can see in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wecVqpc3TOQ
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Missionscripting is now there, with the latest github commits.
So i guess it is only a mtter of time until TFTD will be there, how long no clue.
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we're getting there, the campaign is working as far as i can tell, generating ship attacks and artefact sites as it should. the next step (for me) is working on the battlescape to get synonium devices operational
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Will OpenTFTD implement changes from TFTDExtender?
As in, will gauss coelcanths be usable?
Coelacanth/Gauss was gimped by a programming oversight. Since most of TFTD was hasty reskins, the ammo handling wasn't properly implemented. The way OXC works, I doubt that glitch is even possible anymore ;D
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Did this on my old PS just now. It's kinda small for desktop wallpaper though.. Gimme OpenTFTD!!
I may go back and finish it, but I may not, due to lack of creativity and time.
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Nice art!!
Hope you don't mind: I shared it here: https://redd.it/3f0obf
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Did this on my old PS just now. It's kinda small for desktop wallpaper though.. Gimme OpenTFTD!!
I may go back and finish it, but I may not, due to lack of creativity and time.
Nice work!
Should fix "resurrection" and "descend" though ;)
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Thanks. I made some changes to this version if anyone wants to take a look.
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OpenTFTD playtest stream!
https://openxcom.org/2015/08/opentftd-playtest-stream/ (https://openxcom.org/2015/08/opentftd-playtest-stream/)
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OpenTFTD playtest stream!
https://openxcom.org/2015/08/opentftd-playtest-stream/ (https://openxcom.org/2015/08/opentftd-playtest-stream/)
It looks good :D
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Seems like word to me, but who can tell?
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Now available with Nightly!
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Now available with Nightly!
So I noticed. :) This calls for a new avatar.
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6e/1e/28/6e1e287da53614647b9b33cc480c7a26.jpg)
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Now available with Nightly!
https://img.playground.ru/images/0/9/ezgif.com-gif-maker_(1).gif
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Glad to see that the dye grenade is now worth using as it was completely shit in the original. Will love to see how the hallucinoid's ranged attack works in practice as it annoyed me in the original because of the following from ufopedia.org:
Bugs
The Hallucinoid possesses a ranged attack but, due to bug or design error, it seems this weapon works only on land. Since Hallucinoids do not appear on land, chances are you won't see it used. This also seems to interfere with Hallucinoids' behaviour, since they aren't nearly as aggressive as a melee-only creature should be. The fact that they are among the most valuable aliens in the game in terms of Victory Points also lends credence to the theory that they were meant to have a ranged attack.
Just done a test there with nightly 2015-08-05-2100 and they still seem to only have a melee attack but I suppose once the developers get the main bug issues out of the way they'll get to fine tuning for things like this in due course.
Really looking forward to giving this a try though I want to wait until there a good few mods specifically for TFTD or ones that will work from UFO. Maybe even wait until Openxcom 2.0 comes out.
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Just posting this here again:
The Hallucinoids with ranged attack will have to be a mod. Though the UFOpedia does indeed state that they have a ranged attack, all of the source code shows nothing of the sort. Therefore, Warboy elected to stay with the Vanilla Hallucinoid as presented in the original TftD. It shouldn't be hard to mod, but it will have to be a mod if players want to make the creature match the the Ufopedia entry.
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yeah i've removed that section from the article, there's no evidence to support such a claim, and i have a whole big bag of evidence that contradicts it.
i mean, if there were some weapon stats for it or something, i could see about trying to implement it, but there's literally nothing, so i'd have to make stuff up.
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yeah i've removed that section from the article, there's no evidence to support such a claim, and i have a whole big bag of evidence that contradicts it.
i mean, if there were some weapon stats for it or something, i could see about trying to implement it, but there's literally nothing, so i'd have to make stuff up.
Oh man; you blew up the Hallucinoid Talk (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Hallucinoid#Clearing_this_up) page! My comment probably wasn't very insightful but hey... thought that counts?
Anyway, maybe you can chime in with more of the super gritty details?
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6e/1e/28/6e1e287da53614647b9b33cc480c7a26.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cLXAvzz.png)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6e/1e/28/6e1e287da53614647b9b33cc480c7a26.jpg)
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Look forward to playing TFTD again!
I assume that all the research bugs are gone.
But is there a list of every change somewhere on the forum?
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playing TFTD right now 8)
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But is there a list of every change somewhere on the forum?
If you mean, the differences between the original games and Openxcom, there is this:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Differences_to_X-COM_(OpenXcom) (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Differences_to_X-COM_(OpenXcom))
Now if you want to follow everyday's progress, there is this :
https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commits/master (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commits/master)
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If you mean, the differences between the original games and Openxcom, there is this:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Differences_to_X-COM_(OpenXcom) (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Differences_to_X-COM_(OpenXcom))
Now if you want to follow everyday's progress, there is this :
https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commits/master (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commits/master)
No, I mean changes between TFTD and Open TFTD in terms of tweaking enemies and weapons. I think Util made it so the Gauss weapons didn't suck as hard. Changes like that was what I meant.
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No, I mean changes between TFTD and Open TFTD in terms of tweaking enemies and weapons. I think Util made it so the Gauss weapons didn't suck as hard. Changes like that was what I meant.
OpenTFTD preserves the vanilla values for all weapons and enemies unless they were affected by some sort of glitch. Any other changes are handled by the modding community.
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we changed smoke grenades.
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OpenTFTD preserves the vanilla values for all weapons and enemies unless they were affected by some sort of glitch. Any other changes are handled by the modding community.
That's cool, I can understand that.
That's the cool thing about PC is that if there's anything people don't like, somebody else is gonna mod it out. :)
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we changed smoke grenades.
New weapon type for ink grenade? Or do you mean you decided to change ink grenades to smoke grenades? That would be.. peculiar.
I can't find a commit that mentions ink grenades :(
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we changed smoke grenades.
I think Warboy1982 meant dye grenade damage increase in ruleset (https://github.com/AndO3131/OpenXcom/blob/master/bin/standard/xcom2/items.rul#L664).
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Oh, so they got boosted power to not be useless? I kind of liked the idea of slowly diffusing die underwater.
If it's just a power change, shouldn't the vanilla value be used, and the increase of power be left to a mod (say like the heavy laser fix for EU), not the other way around?
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Default value made that grenade useless, so it's safe to assume this was a bug. Openxcom team fixes bugs.
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??? As much as I agree with fixing bugs, that's a dye grenade. Dye diffusion in water is much slower than smoke in air... and dye in air should be completely useless unless it can burn in the initial explosion and turn into smoke.
Anyhow, I guess some bugs are subject to personal interpretation. Luckily, I can just mod it straight back.
Edit: No more "die grenades" I meant "dye grenades" of course.. Ah.. seconnd languages...
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i'm pretty sure original game had less efficient smoke ahem DYE grenades intentionally . was not a bug.
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TFTD original smoke (dye) grenade does 10 HE (actually smoke) damage while UFO smoke grenade does 60 smoke damage.
Is natural to see this as a bug. Ufopedia wiki even suggests that the original devs "may have mistyped the dye grenade's strength as 10 instead of 100." I, however, think this nerf is actually intentional.
First the manual page specifically says damage is 10 so two sources confirm the same damage. Sometimes ufopaedia, manual and actual game may differ suggesting changed or missing features.
Second TFTD incendiary (phosphor) is also nerfed. Since both incendiary and smoke are support type damage and since it appears both have been intentionally nerfed is safe to assume there is a different reason behind it.
My guess is that TFTD was more about melee vs ranged while UFO was more about just ranged. When I made my melee weapons mod many have said is not as useful in UFO because there are no lobstermen or enemies strong against ranged but weak against melee in UFO. The nerf was to kinda force players to focus more on if you're fighting in water or land and if you should use melee or ranged. Think about how useful would dye grenade be in a melee fight with lobstermen. If just gonna annoy people more than anything.
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Yeah, I can't see them actually intending to have a 100 power dye grenade (good catch on the spelling btw!), that's way too much smoke and such a difference between intention and reality is such a big one to overlook that it seems unlikely.
I think a low power makes sense given how in general, TftD tended to be EU+Screw you modifications, plus, like some of the other "screw you" things, it makes a bit of sense for an underwater environment. Oh well...
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to achieve what you're describing you'd need a high-powered smoke grenade with a very small blast radius. with a power of 10, the smoke blocks little to no vision on a single tile, and dissipates completely in a couple of turns, making it completely useless in any practical sense.
if you reeeeeally want your smoke grenades to do nothing, by all means set them back to 10. but for reasons of playability i'm quite happy to leave it at 60, as per zombie's fix on strategycore.
"it was in the manual" is hardly a viable argument, btw. have you SEEN the manual for xcom1? why would you think the people that wrote the manual had anything to do with development of the game? they were more likely given a copy of the final product and told to "write something".
as far as we can tell there is no good or practical reason why the smoke grenade should remain at 10, if it was intentional then the intent is either completely unclear or simply not achievable with the game's engine. the result, whether by intent or not, is that there is a weapon in your arsenal that serves no purpose whatsoever other than to take up space. - i personally find this unacceptable, and you should too.
conversely, we DID leave the biodrone's melee attack at a hilariously inefficient level, because in testing, it became obvious what the intent was, and it works REALLY well within the game engine.
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hahaha i noticed the biodrone's melee attack has like 1% accuracy in my current game...they just keep on trying and trying
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to achieve what you're describing you'd need a high-powered smoke grenade with a very small blast radius. [...]
conversely, we DID leave the biodrone's melee attack at a hilariously inefficient level, because in testing, it became obvious what the intent was, and it works REALLY well within the game engine.
Very good idea! I'll do exactly that for the dye grenade. Could you elaborate a bit on the biodrone? It sounds interestingly unexpected that such a low hit rate turns out to work well.
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have you SEEN the manual for xcom1? why would you think the people that wrote the manual had anything to do with development of the game? they were more likely given a copy of the final product and told to "write something".
How bad was the original manual?
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how bad? well...
on re-reading my post i realize i made a fundamental mistake: it wasn't a copy of the final product, it was an early beta build.
as for the biodrone, if i tell you it will spoil the surprise.
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as for the biodrone, if i tell you it will spoil the surprise.
Now you got me wondering too, I can't imagine what would it be ;-)
Do we need to know some background information to understand/recognise the surprise... or will it be obvious when it happens?
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when it happens, you'll know.
and i'm sorry for being deliberately mysterious about this, but when you know you won't want to spoil it either. (i hope)
the cat will come out of the bag sooner or later, don't worry.
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is TFTD modding enabled.
or should i say can i make a master mod using the 2 environments TFTD style atm?
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it's enabled, just not supported. don't be surprised if it's really hard to do things, or if things don't work.
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thanks warboy. you know. i cant complain. i can't believe believe yu guys pulled it off a clone of xcom and tftd a whole new engine pretty badass. adding that missing functionality is a breeze compared to making this from scratch. plus i know i've seen this develop and i know is gonna happen. i'd really like to make a 2 environment mod but i'll just work on what i can and sit quietly until those pieces are enabled then continue what i can as things get developed. is all good. thanks for your work/support.
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A a couple of questions:
1) I see that you don't need a live navigator to research Magnetic Navigation, is this an OpenTFTD change or is it from later versions of vanilla TFTD?
2) Is it possible for the Aquanauts to keep their helmets on during the Surface/Terror missions?
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2) Is it possible for the Aquanauts to keep their helmets on during the Surface/Terror missions?
I would like that too! Would be a nice little "mod": Helmets always on yes/no.
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we're using the V2 research tree (the less bugged of the two official versions)
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Another feature request: would it be possible to have a land-only label for weapons as well as a water-only one?
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I would like that too! Would be a nice little "mod": Helmets always on yes/no.
try adding forcedTorso: 2 in STR_NONE armor in armors.rul in xcom2
i know in ufo coveralls have 2 torso types for male and female and i think in tftd is essentially same thing except is land and water torso. you can force either 1 torso using the above command.
i'm not 100% sure just try it out and lemme know if it works.
Another feature request: would it be possible to have a land-only label for weapons as well as a water-only one?
would be nice t also have a land only restriction in addition to default tftd. i know is not default vanilla game but it makes the whole package complete and is very nice for modding to be able to restrict weapons both ways.
maybe
underwaterOnly: 0 1 2
0 and 1 function as regular true false values and 2 just a land only extra thing
as well as
movementType: 0 1 2 3 4 (not fly, fly everywhere, slide, fly underwater only, fly land only) . i think that's right.
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i 'd like to have land only restriction in addition to default tftd. i know is not default vanilla game but it makes the whole package complete and is very nice for modding to be able to restrict weapons both ways.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/1334891.jpg)
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I always felt that not allowing torpedo launchers on land was artificial difficulty, since Gollup was unaware of the difficulty bug and subsequently went in the wrong direction on how to make TFTD harder. Given the ridiculous notion that NOBODY IN X-COM APPARENTLY REMEMBERS WHAT A ROCKET-LAUNCHER IS, are there plans to make the torpedo-launcher usable on land through a mod? I'm willing to concede that perhaps a Coelacanth launcher can't modify its payload on such short notice, but there's no reason why, being told we're going above-water for the next op, that we can't use a rocket launcher. I'm not asking for sprite replacements for missions, just that we can modify torpedo launchers to be used on land.
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I always felt that not allowing torpedo launchers on land was artificial difficulty, since Gollup was unaware of the difficulty bug and subsequently went in the wrong direction on how to make TFTD harder. Given the ridiculous notion that NOBODY IN X-COM APPARENTLY REMEMBERS WHAT A ROCKET-LAUNCHER IS, are there plans to make the torpedo-launcher usable on land through a mod? I'm willing to concede that perhaps a Coelacanth launcher can't modify its payload on such short notice, but there's no reason why, being told we're going above-water for the next op, that we can't use a rocket launcher. I'm not asking for sprite replacements for missions, just that we can modify torpedo launchers to be used on land.
I don't know the structure of TFTD ruleset yet, but I'm fairly sure it'd be trivial to do, like changing one flag.
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I always felt that not allowing torpedo launchers on land was artificial difficulty, since Gollup was unaware of the difficulty bug and subsequently went in the wrong direction on how to make TFTD harder.
Julian Gollop had no hand in the development of TFTD, please don't take his name in vain like that.
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Who did then?
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a team at microprose. there are interviews and articles on the subject but the short version is: the studio wanted a sequel, and they wanted it in a timeframe that he wasn't comfortable with. So he gave them the source code and they made TFTD while he got busy with apocalypse.
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Zombie at Strategycore.co.uk has gotten his hands on some TFTD test disks and has posted (https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/topic/11124-tftd-test-disk-discussion/) about his findings. He has also uploaded the "TFTD Draft Publishing Plan (https://www.strategycore.co.uk/files/tftd-draft-publishing-plan/)" which is the internal document used by the Microprose team.
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Zombie at Strategycore.co.uk has gotten his hands on some TFTD test disks and has posted (https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/topic/11124-tftd-test-disk-discussion/) about his findings. He has also uploaded the "TFTD Draft Publishing Plan (https://www.strategycore.co.uk/files/tftd-draft-publishing-plan/)" which is the internal document used by the Microprose team.
...so, the lobstermen were supposed to be invisible? Holy cow.
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Julian Gollop had no hand in the development of TFTD, please don't take his name in vain like that.
Ah damn. Very well. I am prepared to offer the necessary ritual sacrifice: one rookie, with no armour against an Ethereal armed with only a pistol. If his Gollupness has forgiven me, the rookie will win.
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...so, the lobstermen were supposed to be invisible? Holy cow.
That's bordering on active contempt for their paying audience.
It's also very clear that tasoths weren't intended as mind control units and that they added that in really late.
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That's bordering on active contempt for their paying audience.
It's also very clear that tasoths weren't intended as mind control units and that they added that in really late.
Apparently, there was no mind control planned at all. The aliens would summon elemental-like projections instead.
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I don't know the structure of TFTD ruleset yet, but I'm fairly sure it'd be trivial to do, like changing one flag.
I know I'm beating a dead horse here but is there any idea for this option to become available? I'm afraid I'm at a total loss when it comes to any sort of programming, otherwise I'd try it myself.
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I know I'm beating a dead horse here but is there any idea for this option to become available? I'm afraid I'm at a total loss when it comes to any sort of programming, otherwise I'd try it myself.
Just go in OpenXcom/standard/xcom2/items.rul and remove the respective "underwaterOnly: true", it's that simple.
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My PC has no clue what to use to open the file correctly. Will something as simple as Notepad suffice?
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My PC has no clue what to use to open the file correctly. Will something as simple as Notepad suffice?
Yes, though if you pick up something like Notepad++ (https://notepad-plus-plus.org/download/) and hit Languages->YAML at the top, it'll highlight code bits and give you collapsible sections and things. The majority of ruleset stuff is human-readable and lots of fun to play with, so don't hesitate to mess around with other stuff as well. Reverting anything you cause is as simple as reinstalling. ;)
Good luck,
Red
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Thanks for the patience here. I've tried altering the underwaterOnly: true to underwaterOnly: false and also tried removing the whole entire underwaterOnly: part and it still keeps telling me that that equipment won't function above water. Would you be willing to tell me what I'm doing wrong?
EDIT: Wait it looks like there are multiple instances of UnderwaterOnly Let me try changing them all.
EDIT 2: Good God this entire time this change was that damned easy? This is enough to bury my head in shame and commit seppuku.