OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: kikimoristan on March 14, 2015, 01:05:55 pm

Title: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 14, 2015, 01:05:55 pm
Working on a new stealth race immune to targeting  that can only be hurt by explosives, stun and incendiary . This is gonna be the official thread for it.

I'm in preliminary stages just finished stalker but still working out the details. Sneak peek
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14159;image)

Both don't have an LOF meaning you never get notifications . And both unit types can only be affected by area damage weapons like incendiary, stun, high explosives. All other weapons go trough them. Just did a test for stalker and it works. So small launcher, autocannon, heavy cannon, rocket launcher, alien launcher, proximity mine, explosive packs is pretty much all there is for vanilla weapons.

I'll keep you guys notified of updates as I work out the details.

BTW the name comes from Arthanor on my Stealth Suit thread page 2 top.  He mentioned phase-shifting as a race. SO this one is for him and Ivan. Read further down why.

Originally I wanted to do Stalker from Fallout nv but I didn't know how until I got the idea for changing LOF on units. I tested it out as an armor first see my Stealth Armor mod. Works better than I thought. So I could implement my stalker. But on page 1  Ivan Dogovich mentioned it would be cool if they were not targetable at all. And I said is possible. Arthanor suggested the same thing (pg 2 top) and the idea of phase-shifting. Of course units cannot phase shift cause you can't change armors in game. But I will make them so they are present only halfway in this dimension ie permanently phased units. So I thought of Phasers.  But credit for the name goes to Arthanor.

These units thanks to Arthanor /Ivan Dogovich are gonna be the toughest enemies in the game cause you can only kill them with grenades and not only that they are practically invisible in the game. All you can see is their eyes. Not only that they don't show up as enemy markings and pathfinding in the game will go trough them thinking is nothing there. Melee also doesn't work on them. Also last thing is both Stalker Terrorist and Phaser have 100 PSI Strength so yea, nice try but no. You can tell them apart based on eye color. Also phasers gonna have an aggro sound.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Yankes on March 14, 2015, 02:51:05 pm
Invisible monster... I probably see one sometime ago:
https://fanmovie.cz/wp-content/uploads/forbiddenplanet11650.jpg
:D

Another thing is that motion scanners will be very helpful for detecting and kill them.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 14, 2015, 02:56:20 pm
you can still see them the game engine will show them moving in visible /explored squares or when shooting is just you get no notification on your turn. they don't even have a walking animation cause you technically never see them so they just teleport from square to square making phaser term even more relevant.

also i couldn't hide the weapons for Phasers so they are red eyeballs with weapons floating so is not TOO hard to spot them. Stalkers are harder their yellow eyes kinda blend in.

yes motion scanners detect them if they move.

i don't know how this is gonna play out grenades and explosives and stun only.

i love forbidden planet btw
+1 (y)
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: ivandogovich on March 14, 2015, 03:38:20 pm
 :o  The Ultimate Horror!

Hmm.... as much as I think this idea is pretty awesome, I think you need to give the player a better clue than just glowing eyes.  If it does show on the enemy tracker, too many players will miss it and rage quit.  I think that maybe a blurry dark sooty grey cloud might be a better representation.  (With the glowing eyes in it?)

Also, It feels like they should be slow enough that the player has a chance to react.  They shouldn't be able to zoom in from beyond LOS and oneshot a soldier. 
Two ways to handle this:  Make them slow like a silacoid.  Or make their melee fairly weak.  Weak enough that it should breach personal armor, but only wound soldiers.  Hm... I guess it should be able to breach power armor but only wound.  Personal armor or Jumpsuits should be at risk of insta death.   

And no.  They shouldn't be able to fly!  ;)  Lorewise, maybe they need a physical surface for their teleportation to work. ;)

But yeah, awesome and completely scary enemy!  Nice work! 
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: SIMON on March 14, 2015, 03:45:31 pm
Looking forward to this mod, neat pic from Forbidden Planet, one of the best sci fi movies ever made especially since it was long b4 cgi.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 14, 2015, 03:50:36 pm
Very cool, stuff!  Everytime I read up on this, I can't help but think of "Predator" movies.  I think this alien helps round out the pantheon of aliens found in pop culture these days.   Well, no one has done ET yet :) 
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 14, 2015, 04:06:19 pm
thanks guys. ok so i can't hide the weapons for Phaser unit which is better a bit easier to spot but not enough. they are still DAMN HARD to spot . i am working on a solution. i might make a fuzzy outline few pixels here and there like forbidden planet.

and is too easy to lose track of dead/stunned bodies so im gonna make the bodies have an outline kinda like in you remember where thy are.

and NO they don't fly. the terror unit is just decent low threat. just a high health high tu melee unit but damage wise is OK and only 55 health. Phasers are difficult enough. luckily phasers have 20-50 hp . i might bump them up a bit more still balancing them out.

the biggest problem is you can't use like 80% of all your weapon arsenal against them.

here are  few more screenshots of progress.

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14166;image)
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14168;image)
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14170;image)

you can kinda see how the look like. the stalker is a 4 legged dog type of thing and the phaser is this really tall skinny alien.  unfortuntely phaser doesn't look like predator as predator is like a cloaked tough guy but my dude is a skinny weak alien which is only half present in our dimension.

please let me know what you think.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 14, 2015, 04:14:34 pm
Looking forward to this mod, neat pic from Forbidden Planet, one of the best sci fi movies ever made especially since it was long b4 cgi.

was all hand drawn animated on film.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 14, 2015, 04:22:42 pm
BTW the lore is why you can't hit them .....and why explosives do hit them

in ufopaedia autopsy their whole bodies as phased out but they have one piece left which is near the skull but is cloaked. is very tiny thing and is hard to hit but explosives can damage it.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Mono on March 14, 2015, 11:56:38 pm
Great stuff! Super like it.
What about giving them fixed weapons (no floating weapons) and the unit special ability of "burning floor" (specab: 2)? This way they still are non targettable but a little more easily seen.
Or maybe incomplete sprites with lots of holes, as they move the visible/invisible pixels will change (this will require a lot of work, I know, and when standing they will not look too good). Just a thought, I have not tried it  :P
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 12:12:27 am
 i made incomplete sprite outline like forbidden planet cause i like that movie..top part is outline-ish . check it out. is this better?

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14173;image)
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: SIMON on March 15, 2015, 12:16:41 am
Looks a wee bit like the sprites for the Mechtoid commando unit but with it u cud get a "target lock". When's a workable version gonna be ready?
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 12:25:23 am
well i have phasers all ranks and stalker made..sprites and flooob made...bigobs made...i just need to make ufopaedia /autopsy and add them to monthly missions.

you can't target these guys is kinda weird. dunno how this is gonna play up. you shoot right trough them. even if you aim at the ground behind them or anywhere having no hitbox/lof template they never ever get it. ever. not by conventional weapons. only explosives. is so odd. all i been using is chemical thrower is the only weapon that deals area damage as ammo all other vanilla stuff requires priming and reloading etc. vanilla play against these guys is kinda hard. if you got no explosives or run out GG. just abort.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Hobbes on March 15, 2015, 12:45:43 am
Suggestion: remove the eyes and use a completely blank sprite. Not being able to see anything might actually 'look' better than having a few pixels.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 12:53:10 am
here is another better color better outline. i kinda like this one.

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14178;image)


also i'm gonna have them use weapons cause weapons don't phase out. only their bodies do. so you still can't hit them only hit their weapons kinda. but that's not implemented in the game to shoot their weapons out of their hands. they are aliens like all other aliens using same weapons given in missionDeployment.


Suggestion: remove the eyes and use a completely blank sprite. Not being able to see anything might actually 'look' better than having a few pixels.

i didn't think of removing outline completely. eyes kinda give them personality and make them look like living things. i'm gonna try though.

i kinda want it to be harder to see them in the game that's why i m using dashed  outline  and i chose most common colors to blend in. i don't want them to not be spotted at all just harder to spot them initially.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: ivandogovich on March 15, 2015, 01:14:52 am
I like the outlines better than just the eyes.  I think the burned ground effect could be good too.

Anyway, great concept, and nice work!
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Mono on March 15, 2015, 01:24:15 am
Or use only a flat shadow in the ground?
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 15, 2015, 01:31:18 am
Looks even better.  I like the outline.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 01:46:44 am
guys 1 PROBLEM!

:)

since you can't see them they never show up n markings no LOS you cannot ever see their bodies and outlines are completely invisible . i was using debug and that way it works cause i can see everything . means you can only see these guys on scanners if they move. now ok.. i know i said they are immune to all damage but i might make their lof same as stealth armor so you can spot them at diagonal angles AT LEAST ...not knowing where thy are is impossible to react haha. it was so crazy. i got shot down from i have no idea where i couldnt see anyone.

so i might make them killable at angles using all weapons like stealthed guy. is just too insane to play with completely invisible units.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 01:51:13 am
HOLY SHIT IT'S SOOOOO HARD even with lof 85 like stealth sooo hard i just got shot out of nowhere have no clue where they are. Wow. But i can see them half the time from diagonal angles.  Is just impossible. This unit is impossible difficulty. This unit is the worst.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 02:04:27 am
is ok i figured it out. i made them so you can kinda spot them at times and still only explosives/stun can affect them.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 05:30:19 am
hey guys thanks for your interest. here are a few more updates.


(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14193;image)
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14195;image)
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14197;image)
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14199;image)

the stalker is kinda of a phaser dog and leaves burning marks
the phaser doesn't leave burning marks.
you can see both at an angle only.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Hobbes on March 15, 2015, 05:51:45 am
I had a look but to me I probably try completely invisible option. I think 1, 2 of those units in very special maps (Alien Base, for instance) could really add a little more tension and I love the idea of getting the motion scanner more use.

Could one still try to hit your Phaser if you target it indirectly, like firing at a wall lined with with it and your soldier?
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 15, 2015, 05:59:38 am
Yeah, don't like the trail on the terror unit.  Overall still looking good.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 06:20:10 am
I had a look but to me I probably try completely invisible option. I think 1, 2 of those units in very special maps (Alien Base, for instance) could really add a little more tension and I love the idea of getting the motion scanner more use.

Could one still try to hit your Phaser if you target it indirectly, like firing at a wall lined with with it and your soldier?

Completely invisible is really really hard but very exciting.  Phasers cannot be hit by anything other than incendiary/stun/explosive . Before I had LOF 0 which means untargetable even by misfire but now I made them half visible and I adjusted their armor as well to match those stats.  Invisible mode they can't be hit even using CTL+fire. Is impossible. Without a hit box they can't be hit. Is like they are not even there. In fact the engine thinks they are not there and try to pathfind trough them. Thats another way you can kinda tell where they are if you all the sudden are blocked by something.  Stalkers are very aggressive and will always engage close and you can figure it out that way too.

I might make Hobbes flavour fully invisible and Ivan flavour half visible. Hobbes one is closest thing to hardcore. 

I made their fire accuracy about 5 lower than sectoids so you can kinda trace where they are based on where they are shooting from.  You keep a tank or something in the middle taking fire and guess where they are. That's one strategy. I don't know. Scanners is another. Also both units are not very fast. Phaser is like 48 i think TU, and 56 or something for stalker. So once you kinda guess they will still be around.


Both units have incredibly low health. Problem is finding them. Phasers go from 15 to 45 health based on rank and Stalkers have 55 health. So hit them once with anything you're good.

I might release a quick test version for you guys soon . Maybe one invisible and one half visible. See what you think
.
Yeah, don't like the trail on the terror unit.  Overall still looking good.

So remove burning marks ? I wasn't too too crazy about them either. Just testing out.


I wanna make aggro sounds thought for both units so you know which one you are dealing with.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 15, 2015, 06:31:55 am

So remove burning marks ? I wasn't too too crazy about them either. Just testing out.


Yep. 
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 06:41:22 am
okay burning marks removed

phaser
      tu: 50
      stamina: 80
      health: 10 (increases by 5 every rank)
      bravery: 90
      reactions: 63
      firing: 48
      throwing: 58
      strength: 30
      psiStrength: 100
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 50
intelligence increases / rank
aggression degreases per rank (commander is likely to be in the ship on the chairs in front of screens)

stalker
      tu: 60
      stamina: 90
      health: 65
      bravery: 100
      reactions: 70
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 70
      psiStrength: 100
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 76


releasing test 1  - Hobbes  version - completely invisible Phasers/Stalkers battle mode only


you will get out of you ship and shots will be fired from all over and you won't be able to see anyone
you need to use you intuition, scanners and lots and lots of explosives
since you can't see them, their weapons, bodies outlines and eyes also invisible as well as anything else that is part of them. engine will also pathfind trough them as if nothing is there. and no enemy markings ever.

good luck.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 15, 2015, 07:05:39 am
just tried a game as completely invisible and i was doing OK until i got shrekt by a phaser grenade and a stalker mauling all my dudes. that grenade got my chem guy and i was left without any area damage other than grenades. elerium bomb is good too. 
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Arpia on March 15, 2015, 12:02:53 pm
just a little thought I had.
Burning marks could actually make sense, since this is an invisible stalker. you can actually bend light using water and intense heat to create a mirage effect. it's not practical to make camo since the heat thing would like... yknow... scald the user alive.
But for an alien with acess to technology beyond our understanding, or a silacoid-like molten core, it could explain the heat and the stealth.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Arthanor on March 15, 2015, 07:40:55 pm
Using changes in air densities through application of heat to generate index of refraction gradients and bend light? That's a pretty cool idea. It's not phasing as originally conceptualized (ie being out of phase with reality = not being there) and would require a different name (Airbenders? :P) but it is another way to be invisible.

Personally, I like the truly invisible one but with burning marks. Maybe the act of phasing in and out of existence damages your surroundings, which would explain the marks. And having the marks allow you to "see them" through their effect on their surroundings. (Like invisible Harry Potter walking in the snow)
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: hellrazor on March 15, 2015, 08:49:54 pm
Give them PSI ability and high pri strength for superior mindcontrol.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: SIMON on March 15, 2015, 10:58:02 pm
Just tested ur mod in battlemode there, very nice. They are going to make terror missions a complete nightmare (see pic). Can't wait for a full version 2b released. On looking @ their psi stats IMO they wudn't need psi skill as in superhuman level they will be very difficult to mc anyway @ pstr=116, giving them the ability to mc ur troops wud make them virtually invincible and unplayable. Proximity type grenades seem to work ok against them so another use for my STUNBLASTER tho it does take a while to get the research.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 15, 2015, 11:24:58 pm
I would have to agree.  Giving them mind control would greatly overpower them IMHO.  They're hard enough already.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 16, 2015, 04:00:24 am
their power lies in invisibility not psi powers. they will never get psi powers

SIMON, why are the graphics a bit off?
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: SIMON on March 16, 2015, 04:20:32 am
Are u meaning the vertical lines over the units or something else? Pic was taken in debug mode if that matters. Here's a copy of my current battle.cfg file if that helps. Beyond that I'm not sure.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: hellrazor on March 18, 2015, 12:16:14 am
I would have to agree.  Giving them mind control would greatly overpower them IMHO.  They're hard enough already.

Come on, you know you wanna hunt down those invisible, untargetable mindcontrollers right?
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Arthanor on March 18, 2015, 12:26:38 am
With explosives that would be hilarious. We should commission Ivan to attempt a terror mission with an avenger full of rookies, primed high explosives and mind controlling invisible aliens.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 18, 2015, 12:27:14 am
Come on, you know you wanna hunt down those invisible, untargetable mindcontrollers right?

Sure.. maybe once:)  Honestly, I'd still be interesting in trying it.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: jgatkinsn on March 18, 2015, 12:27:41 am
With explosives that would be hilarious. We should commission Ivan to attempt a terror mission with an avenger full of rookies, primed high explosives and mind controlling invisible aliens.

Yes, that would awesome.   Give him a blaster pack and see how many he can knock out with one pack!
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: ivandogovich on March 18, 2015, 02:16:20 am
Yes, that would awesome.   Give him a blaster pack and see how many he can knock out with one pack!

LMAO! ;D
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: kikimoristan on March 18, 2015, 08:40:08 am
hey dudes sorry i was away for a bit. i'm trying to do ufopaedia /autopsy : ) haha...i only did one quick test stalker ufopaedia.

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3481.0;attach=14285;image)


im gonna make 4 version of the rulset
1. all invisible - IMPOSSIBLE
2. phaser half visible, stalker fully invisible - HARD
3. phaser half visible, stalker fully invisible and burns ground - BALANCED
4. phaser/stalker both half visible  stalker burns ground - EASY
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Hobbes on June 01, 2015, 02:32:39 am
Hi, how are the UFOPedia images progressing?

I had completely forgotten about the Stalker but yesterday I remember this whole discussion and I'd like to add it to Redux.
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 05, 2015, 12:33:06 pm
Hi, how are the UFOPedia images progressing?

I had completely forgotten about the Stalker but yesterday I remember this whole discussion and I'd like to add it to Redux.

And I'd really like to add them to the FMP! :)
Title: Re: [UNIT] Phaser Race - WIP
Post by: Hobbes on June 05, 2015, 06:00:45 pm
And I'd really like to add them to the FMP! :)

The only images missing are the UFOPedia autopsy/interrogation images.