OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Suggestions => Topic started by: alinare on March 08, 2015, 10:30:56 am
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Hello. I apologize, because my English is not very good, but I've checked, because I am a follower of this wonderful game, and this wonderful page.
I have some suggestions, I do not know if they could be applied in some way.
How do the weapon of your soldier encasquille, or damaged, in combat, randomly, for example, a manufacturing defect, or something.
Could they be sublevar, aliens, alien imprisoned in the container for studies or interviews, leading to a fight, leveraging his brothers attack the base, or to rebel, a kind of mutiny? I know that the container disables them to fight, but would there be any possibility, they tried to escape?
Can simulate, theft of money, sabotage your premises by a foreign power, as Exalt Ufo Enemy Within?
A very cordial greeting to all.
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he's thinking about weapons that have durability % so after a while they break and need replacing or repairing
funds sometimes get lost they been stolen/interrupted/lost by spies by corrupt governments by aliens
and terror missions in alien base with escaped abductees OR aliens contained in your base escape so you get a base defense type mission with a few aliens on the run
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Seems like the first two options would simply be "things cost more money". I wouldn't want to repair my guns individually, nor would I want to forget to repair them, so simply having a upkeep cost to them would be the way to go. Same for having funds stolen; when a country leaves, you make negative money from them due to spies or whatnot.
The third option would be strange to play. I don't want to play a mission with one alien on the map, so I guess you could roll a die and have "3 scientists were killed in an alien outbreak". Or on defense missions, the alien containment has unarmed aliens waiting to be "rescued", but again that would require new AI to have the alien stay there, others to fetch, give weapons to, and then continue attacking.
Not that my examples are the only possible ones, but those are my thoughts.
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Seems like the first two options would simply be "things cost more money". I wouldn't want to repair my guns individually, nor would I want to forget to repair them, so simply having a upkeep cost to them would be the way to go. Same for having funds stolen; when a country leaves, you make negative money from them due to spies or whatnot.
The third option would be strange to play. I don't want to play a mission with one alien on the map, so I guess you could roll a die and have "3 scientists were killed in an alien outbreak". Or on defense missions, the alien containment has unarmed aliens waiting to be "rescued", but again that would require new AI to have the alien stay there, others to fetch, give weapons to, and then continue attacking.
Not that my examples are the only possible ones, but those are my thoughts.
the last one could work if you have a lot of live aliens in storage like let' say 10 and they all escape cause is too crowded hard to contain them.
the message is aliens have escaped containment recapture them or kill them .
their weapons are random firearms weapons from base storage .
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I would find it difficult to believe that aliens broke containment and made it to the weapons storage without an alarm of some sort going off. But anything believable would not really fit into xcom. It's not like you would get a chance to prepare your soldiers like you would an invasion, this happens without warning. But obviously your military complex would have guards, probably your soldiers, so you would need to identify and equip soldiers in case there is an outbreak, which again would turn into a weird "hunt" mission that would be super easy to game once you know it exists: put the storage on one end of the base, containment on the other.
On the surface it sounds fine, but if you try to flesh it out it doesn't really fit the game.
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what if after about 10 turns or s they leave the base and if anyone gets out next day you get a battleship alien retaliation
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I would find it difficult to believe that aliens broke containment and made it to the weapons storage without an alarm of some sort going off. But anything believable would not really fit into xcom. It's not like you would get a chance to prepare your soldiers like you would an invasion, this happens without warning. But obviously your military complex would have guards, probably your soldiers, so you would need to identify and equip soldiers in case there is an outbreak, which again would turn into a weird "hunt" mission that would be super easy to game once you know it exists: put the storage on one end of the base, containment on the other.
On the surface it sounds fine, but if you try to flesh it out it doesn't really fit the game.
Actually, I believe it could happen if you had a Sectoid Leader in the containment, particularly early game before you have Psionic labs. Maybe he's strong enough to control the guards to let his buddies out and then equip them with base weapons. The mission could start with some of your soldiers as alien allies.
Or engineers maybe savvy enough to bypass the security as well, so alarms don't go off. Overall the aliens have better tech which leads to pretty good intelligence to figuring their way out of prison.
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Something like this could be interesting:
x% per month per alien in base to have a riot in the containment unit (all it takes is one to break out and then they free the other, because.. scientists just run away as soon as there's trouble. That's also why you don't lose any).
They then aim for the hangars/lift and walk there, except terror units which roam the base and try to kill your soldiers (they have built in weapons + they are expendable). Spending a whole turn (ie ending a turn with full TUs) in a hangar or lift results in the alien escaping.
Any escaped alien has y% to cause an alien retaliation mission to be launched on that base.
You can be all on the offensive but then some soldiers might get killed by terror units. You can kill aliens but then you lose your prisoners. You can try to stun them, but that being more difficult, you might let some escape.
If we're really mean, spawn one civilian for each scientist and engineers, each kill means you lost one when back in geoscape. Better not let a chryssalid escape in that manufacturing base with 150 engineers..!
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you could spawn 1 unit per 10 in base. so at 150 engineers you get 15 engineers and if 1 dies you lose 10 in the base
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Now the Psi capabilities I had not considered; things can indeed get interesting! I would agree that a leader or a psi-capable alien in your base could increase the odds of invasion. Starting missions with some of your soldiers already mind controlled, as if the leader was waiting for the right moment to snap them all..
That is something I could get behind; a leader breaks containment, you equip all your soldiers, and then lose a handful of them to the alien leader on T1. Devlish. This also seems like it would require very little new code to make work.
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It would also make it a more risky proposition of capturing live psi-capable aliens which you need for research.
I wouldn't mind seeing the probability of this mission kicking off be based on the ratio of garrisoned soldiers per contained alien. So when that skyranger goes out on a mission, the probability of escape goes up while your troops are away.
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That'd be cool, and with a MC chance based on the troop psi-strength? If all your troops are stunned/killed or MC'd, you lose the base :P
That would definitely make you want to pack stun weapons: Not only do you get your alien captives back, but you can stun the MC'd soldiers to get them back too. And if they are MC'd after being equipped, that means they too will "only" pack stun weapons :D
The idea of a breakout based on aliens/soldiers is pretty good. I love the increased risk when going on a mission. Add a bonus when psi-aliens are present since they are more likely to escape, and maybe when one is being experimented on (handling prisoners is more risky than leaving them in their cell). It would make you keep the troops at home and research psi-aliens asap after capture to make sure they don't escape :)
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yo the more psi power a captured alien has the more the chance of alien containment break deff has a lot of potential
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weapon jamming is theoretically possible, but weapon degredation is harder, as weapons only exist as quantities outside battle and have no individual properties
overflowing alien containment is something i'd like to see implemented, but i'd rather push that to the extended version or my own.
as for enemy factions sabotaging your funding/standing with the national directors, i'm not sure.
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The aliend containment according to the ufopedia article has the aliens in sealed self contained units. That in my book translates in: A solid cofin that keeps them all but alive (possibly permanently sedated with drugs). So I doubt an escape can be possible. The only exception I can think of, is with highly psionic aliens (Etherials sectoid leaders+). And that only durring the interogation. The scientists wake up the alien, and simply put psionics are a field nobody on earth knows how to protect himself (no tin foil hats dont count) and durring the interrogation one escapes, possibly then leading to him releasing the others (if they exist).
Another thing (lore wise) that I cant think why the aliens would mount a resque mission, is that according to what we get from their society is that most of their soldiers are clones and/or expendable. I cant think about mounting an expedition to save anyone except again high ranking aliens (and that due to self preservation-we dont want the humans to find out Cydonia). That said this scenario also requires knowledge about the base housing the leader.
Its a solid good idea, but it would require a couple mechanics that take into account the lore, and have prevension measures (for example the mind-shield should the base have been not detected prior to its completion, should stop this kind of activity) rather than a: LOL, your aliens escaped and heres a battle ship to help them escape :P
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It would make sense if the risk increased when an alien is researched. As for the coffins: Who knows how to safely keep a Chryssalid? Why would an alien containment build in January 1999 be able to? Even if they somehow knew how to, maybe they messed up giving it its sedative? (there are a whole bunch of errors in hospitals, where we actually know what we're doing) Maybe this sedative doesn't work on Chryssalids and that's how XCom finds out? Just as we can make stories of how something could never happen, we can make stories about how it can happen. If you don't believe the stories saying it can happen, you don't have to use the mod either ;)
The battleship could not be called to rescue anyone. The aliens are trying to escape in order to call an attack on the base (escaped aliens obviously know where the base is) and because they care about their own life and they hope to be rescued. The retaliation mission could be sent strictly to take care of the XCom base. Maybe for the attacking aliens, recovering others is a very secondary objective.
Having the mechanic is the first step to getting the story going. Then everyone can make their own version of how it could happen, whereas now it can only not happen.
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All really good points, pilot00. I like the idea of Mind Shield nixing the retaliation, unless you allow for the aliens breaking out sabotaging the Mind Shield. Also, connecting the lore to the mechanics is important to help the theme to blend into the possibility. Although, one could argue that the expendable aliens would not call for “rescue”, but just call the battleship because they said, “We’re at the human base. Here are the coordinates… come and get it!”
So, I’ll summarize some ideas as follows:
1. non-leader/non-psi captive aliens only means no breakout due to heavy sedation assuming we know enough about alien physiology to sedate them properly (proper research?) (or expendable if this was rescue)
2. Psi-capable captive aliens (technically i think those are effectively all leaders) can cause a breakout due to MC - if rescue and not retaliation - these are valuable assets to the alien military effort
3. Probability of breakout adjusted based on alien psi strength in captivity
4. Higher number of psi-capable aliens bumps up the probability of happening
5. Probability of breakout gets higher based on alien/soldier ratio at the base.
6. Mind shield stops breakout attempts (unless allow sabotage and I’m okay not allowing it).
7. Mission starts with some weak psi soldiers on alien side
8. Mission starts with a number of civilians or scientists/engineers roaming around due to surprise attack from breakout
Discuss :D
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It would make sense if the risk increased when an alien is researched. As for the coffins: Who knows how to safely keep a Chryssalid? Why would an alien containment build in January 1999 be able to? Even if they somehow knew how to, maybe they messed up giving it its sedative? (there are a whole bunch of errors in hospitals, where we actually know what we're doing) Maybe this sedative doesn't work on Chryssalids and that's how XCom finds out? Just as we can make stories of how something could never happen, we can make stories about how it can happen. If you don't believe the stories saying it can happen, you don't have to use the mod either ;)
The battleship could not be called to rescue anyone. The aliens are trying to escape in order to call an attack on the base (escaped aliens obviously know where the base is) and because they care about their own life and they hope to be rescued. The retaliation mission could be sent strictly to take care of the XCom base. Maybe for the attacking aliens, recovering others is a very secondary objective.
Having the mechanic is the first step to getting the story going. Then everyone can make their own version of how it could happen, whereas now it can only not happen.
You missunderstood my post. I am not against the idea. I just say that it needs an ingame explanation thats not an excuse but something viable. If a stun rod (electocution) can stun said crysalid, chances are they know how to keep it down. Plus the entire facility is supposedly designed to safely keep them in. And thats why I cringed even durring the first time I played the game, that the facility was ready to be build from the get go (and i was 7 years old at the time). "Where the hell do they know what the aliens need to live?" was my thoughts. It should be a researchable after you dissect some corpses, but thats another matter.
I am not against the idea of an escape attempt, but just as I said I dont want to see it been implemented into a yolo style such as the base defense in 2012: "Here you passed the time frame required and completed x research, now eat an alien invasion to the face while your grunts are unequiped because reasons....oh and yolo swag."
If it has the appropriate lore, transparent mechanics to do something about it or prevent it, I am all for it.
All really good points, pilot00. I like the idea of Mind Shield nixing the retaliation, unless you allow for the aliens breaking out sabotaging the Mind Shield. Also, connecting the lore to the mechanics is important to help the theme to blend into the possibility. Although, one could argue that the expendable aliens would not call for “rescue”, but just call the battleship because they said, “We’re at the human base. Here are the coordinates… come and get it!”
So, I’ll summarize some ideas as follows:
1. non-leader/non-psi captive aliens only means no breakout due to heavy sedation assuming we know enough about alien physiology to sedate them properly (proper research?) (or expendable if this was rescue)
2. Psi-capable captive aliens (technically i think those are effectively all leaders) can cause a breakout due to MC - if rescue and not retaliation - these are valuable assets to the alien military effort
3. Probability of breakout adjusted based on alien psi strength in captivity
4. Higher number of psi-capable aliens bumps up the probability of happening
5. Probability of breakout gets higher based on alien/soldier ratio at the base.
6. Mind shield stops breakout attempts (unless allow sabotage and I’m okay not allowing it).
7. Mission starts with some weak psi soldiers on alien side
8. Mission starts with a number of civilians or scientists/engineers roaming around due to surprise attack from breakout
Discuss :D
Yeah I was talking about something like that.
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overflowing alien containment is something i'd like to see implemented, but i'd rather push that to the extended version or my own.
So does this mean that this requires source code changes to support?
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weapon jamming is theoretically possible, but weapon degredation is harder, as weapons only exist as quantities outside battle and have no individual properties
I have to test this but OXE as an ammo property "damageAlter->ToItem".
If I interpret correctly the readme, when an alien shoot you it can destroy your weapons, you will end defenseless ;D
As for aliens breaking out: this sound better as an implementation of random events.
- An explosion on base X kill 1/3 of your engs
- Influenza on base Y: half of your soldier get in sick bay for a week
- Unknow donors give 4 million $ to X-Com
- Creativity explosion! this week your scientists give double research points
- Civil protester: all your supplies will be delayed 2 week for this month
- Sabotage: one of your craft explode
- ...
Can this be implemented on milestone 3.0? :P