OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: smexyvami on August 22, 2014, 12:27:44 pm

Title: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: smexyvami on August 22, 2014, 12:27:44 pm
i would like to see a mod that expands on the firearms and adds in modern wepons to fight off the alien scorge with posibiltys to be upgraded with the discovery of alien teck. the goal is to have firearms carry ed thought the game

Fetchers:
Armors:
Belistic vest , tastical vest , full bomb distpoal armor , alloy plates for vests , redifined harden plates after ufo construction , full armor suit ? eg spartan armor or crysis nano suits .
Weaponry:
pistols , SMG , assault riffles , marksmen riffles , sniper riffle , reworked auto cannon & hevey cannon ,  rocketluncher respite with additional rockets .
craft armorments:
Phaylanx cannon - an advance missle pod , emp cannon ? , automated lazer cannon - craft mini gun style lazer faster  needing closer range.
ammunition:
alloy ammo , depeleated uranam / elerium , nitrogen rounds ? , heat ammo ?

Balance:
armor should not out class vanilla sets and no flight upgrades grapling hooks cant work seeing as flying in this game is unlimited
weapons should be an intermediate to staring to lazer weapons till additional ammo or weapon upgrades come to play

i know there are afew sprite sets out there that can be used and recolored for ammo magizens
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: moriarty on August 22, 2014, 01:33:05 pm
this thread really belongs in the "mods" section, not in the "development" section.

(smexyvami, I find your posts really really hard to read. could you try and use punctuation? and proofread your posts before hitting the buttons?)
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: smexyvami on August 22, 2014, 06:46:26 pm
i am sory a mod can move this . and i will try but my disabilitys get in the way some times making it hard to clearly convay what im trying to say
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Dioxine on August 22, 2014, 07:21:57 pm
Well, quite a challenge here :)

As far as "more robust modern battlefield" goes, this is the best place to go: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2674.0 although, while very well balanced and quite varied as far as firearms go, it (as of now) lacks much hi-tec stuff or, sad to say, top-notch graphics.

The FMP https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2027.540 deals more with tech progression and is much nicer, but definitely has far fewer earth-tech stuff that you seem to be looking for...

Finally there is my own Piratez mod, with tons of weapons & armor & new ideas of all sorts, most of the stuff you've mentioned either already implemented or planned (or on hold waiting for the devs to include the technical capability to do so), but it's campy post-apocalyptic sci-fi that's certainly not for everyone :)
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 22, 2014, 08:50:34 pm
Well, quite a challenge here :)

As far as "more robust modern battlefield" goes, this is the best place to go: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2674.0 although, while very well balanced and quite varied as far as firearms go, it (as of now) lacks much hi-tec stuff or, sad to say, top-notch graphics.

The FMP https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2027.540 deals more with tech progression and is much nicer, but definitely has far fewer earth-tech stuff that you seem to be looking for...

Finally there is my own Piratez mod, with tons of weapons & armor & new ideas of all sorts, most of the stuff you've mentioned either already implemented or planned (or on hold waiting for the devs to include the technical capability to do so), but it's campy post-apocalyptic sci-fi that's certainly not for everyone :)

Thanks for the recommendation Dioxine.

I'm sorry you don't like the graphics, is there anything you can recommend to help me improve their look?

On to Smexy:

Along with the above, I also recommend "Ryskeliinis Guns n Gadgets Packs".  They have a large variety of conventional arms included in it.
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Dioxine on August 23, 2014, 01:20:21 am
I'm sorry you don't like the graphics, is there anything you can recommend to help me improve their look?

Well, get someone experienced in that stuff to improve them (smoothen, fix palettes, fill the holes etc)? Not that your designs are bad, just crude. I can help, but currently I have my own share of work...
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: smexyvami on August 23, 2014, 03:59:17 pm
Thanks for the recommendation Dioxine.

I'm sorry you don't like the graphics, is there anything you can recommend to help me improve their look?

On to Smexy:

Along with the above, I also recommend "Ryskeliinis Guns n Gadgets Packs".  They have a large variety of conventional arms included in it.
Well, quite a challenge here :)

As far as "more robust modern battlefield" goes, this is the best place to go: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2674.0 although, while very well balanced and quite varied as far as firearms go, it (as of now) lacks much hi-tec stuff or, sad to say, top-notch graphics.

The FMP https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2027.540 deals more with tech progression and is much nicer, but definitely has far fewer earth-tech stuff that you seem to be looking for...

Finally there is my own Piratez mod, with tons of weapons & armor & new ideas of all sorts, most of the stuff you've mentioned either already implemented or planned (or on hold waiting for the devs to include the technical capability to do so), but it's campy post-apocalyptic sci-fi that's certainly not for everyone :)

i have tryed and or using these mods i like them but there are aspects that eather thay dont work well together or make it not so fun to start . i am looking for people to help make a mod that docent re balance the hole game but adds wepons and items to it to make it more fun and full of load out choices you could use . aswell as bringing xcom gear to the current generation of stuff we have out there
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Avalanche on August 23, 2014, 07:39:47 pm
Well, just about all of the weapons from the FMP and Piratez mods can be downloaded as stand alone pieces. Come to think of it, you could probably download those mods, but then only install the rulesets which applied to the weapons.

The majority of the things you're looking for already exist though. The only ones which I don't think I've seen before in some form or another are the nitrogen rounds (because I'm not sure what they'd do), and the alloy trauma plates (because why add a plate to conventional armor when you can just make an entire suit of armor made of alloys?).
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 23, 2014, 08:20:13 pm
The majority of the things you're looking for already exist though. The only ones which I don't think I've seen before in some form or another are the nitrogen rounds (because I'm not sure what they'd do), and the alloy trauma plates (because why add a plate to conventional armor when you can just make an entire suit of armor made of alloys?).

My next version has improvised armor, using alloy strike plates under conventional aramid armor vests as a stopgap before personal armor is made.


Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 23, 2014, 11:54:50 pm
I'm thinking of adding an "alloy plate armour" to the FMP as a more primitive armour (with penalties due to weight and movement restriction), and put additional requirements for the Personal Armour. But I still haven't decided on anything, since I am not sure what other prerequisite the Personal Armour would require and whether it wouldn't be too anal.
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 24, 2014, 01:25:44 am
I'm thinking of adding an "alloy plate armour" to the FMP as a more primitive armour (with penalties due to weight and movement restriction), and put additional requirements for the Personal Armour. But I still haven't decided on anything, since I am not sure what other prerequisite the Personal Armour would require and whether it wouldn't be too anal.

In mine, there is an step after 'Alien Alloys' called 'Alloy manufacturing'. It gives you access to the research topic 'Personal Armor' and give you the ability to manufacture alloy armor.

Alien Alloys only gives you the ability to craft alloy improved conventional armor, by requiring 1 or 2 alloys and an existing vest.
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 24, 2014, 01:28:51 am
In mine, there is an step after 'Alien Alloys' called 'Alloy manufacturing'. It gives you access to the research topic 'Personal Armor' and give you the ability to manufacture alloy armor.

Alien Alloys only gives you the ability to craft alloy improved conventional armor, by requiring 1 or 2 alloys and an existing vest.

Yes, I had exactly this in mind. Nevertheless, adding the Alloy Manufacturing research topic does little to change things, it's just another research project. The devil is in the prerequisites, which I don't really have any idea for.
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 24, 2014, 01:31:11 am
Yes, I had exactly this in mind. Nevertheless, adding the Alloy Manufacturing research topic does little to change things, it's just another research project. The devil is in the prerequisites, which I don't really have any idea for.

Mine is rather sad.  Just breaking up the Alien Alloys step into two steps. I really need to come up with another thing for 'Alien Alloys' for my mod. I was thinking of a new radar system or something, but...
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Dioxine on August 24, 2014, 01:55:12 am
I have that idea knocking around my mind for some time... byproduct of Piratez but could be used by any large mod...

Tech levels; Research projects separate from Developement projects.

Remember Age of Empires? In there you could research refinements to current tech level stuff, OR (after enough preqs have been met) go to the next tech level.

My idea in a nutshell. Make several "ages" (say, three: Earth, Sci-Fi Earth, Full Alien Tech). You cannot research any stuff that's beyond your current age. After discovering a couple of things, you can start a project that'll get you to the second age... OR keep developing and refining what you have. Like the first option allows you to make a full Personal Armor, the second only to upgrade existing body armor with alloy plates. So what's the catch? The project that gets you to the next age is massively more expensive in research points than developement projects. So you face a choice: quickly develop solutions based on the current tech base, or very slowly advance to the next age. Of course the next age will eventually give you stuff far above and beyond the previous age... BUT highly-developed and refined stuff from the previous age CAN easily rival the basic stuff of the new age...

Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: smexyvami on August 24, 2014, 05:02:07 am
I have that idea knocking around my mind for some time... byproduct of Piratez but could be used by any large mod...

Tech levels; Research projects separate from Developement projects.

Remember Age of Empires? In there you could research refinements to current tech level stuff, OR (after enough preqs have been met) go to the next tech level.

My idea in a nutshell. Make several "ages" (say, three: Earth, Sci-Fi Earth, Full Alien Tech). You cannot research any stuff that's beyond your current age. After discovering a couple of things, you can start a project that'll get you to the second age... OR keep developing and refining what you have. Like the first option allows you to make a full Personal Armor, the second only to upgrade existing body armor with alloy plates. So what's the catch? The project that gets you to the next age is massively more expensive in research points than developement projects. So you face a choice: quickly develop solutions based on the current tech base, or very slowly advance to the next age. Of course the next age will eventually give you stuff far above and beyond the previous age... BUT highly-developed and refined stuff from the previous age CAN easily rival the basic stuff of the new age...
i like this its like makeing elerium shells once you understand the eliment or go next age and go for lazer baced wepons
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: moriarty on August 24, 2014, 08:31:56 am


I have that idea knocking around my mind for some time... byproduct of Piratez but could be used by any large mod...

Tech levels; Research projects separate from Developement projects.

Remember Age of Empires? In there you could research refinements to current tech level stuff, OR (after enough preqs have been met) go to the next tech level.

My idea in a nutshell. Make several "ages" (say, three: Earth, Sci-Fi Earth, Full Alien Tech). You cannot research any stuff that's beyond your current age. [...]
I like that, and it's even quite easy to implement...  the easiest way would be to use "alien alloys - based tech" as the second tier and "elerium - based tech" as the third one... then go and add alien alloys and elerium as prerequisites for the relevant projects.

Increase the research time for alien alloys and elerium by "a lot" (make sure to tell the player), and voilĂ .

(it was always a mystery to me how it was possible to for example manufacture plasma ammunition without having researched elerium...)
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: smexyvami on August 24, 2014, 09:27:16 am
i have yet to start this mod as i lack the knowledge to do so and along with sprites. but it would be nice to see something good come out of all the brain storming :3
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: RSSwizard on August 25, 2014, 12:36:04 am
The BIG HUGE feature request that you ought to be considering when it comes to Conventional Weapons is . . .

Weapons which have a Sub Weapon Attached to them.

M-4 Carbine with M203 Grenade Launcher
M-41 Pulse rifle with 30mm Grenade Launcher

As simple as it sounds though, I can understand why its not implemented yet - because I can see how it isnt really that simple to implement. (but it would be possible, just you couldnt separate the weapons from each other, even back at the base - its effectively one weapon which has another weapon Linked to it, and you can switch modes which switches it to the other weapon).

My suggestion if it was ever attempted, would be to just have an auxiliaryWeapon: option for a weapon which refers to a different weapon which is not a standalone and has no weight or size/storage stats.
The Auxiliary weapon would be accessed from the Firing Menu (aimed/snap/auto/etc) . . . something like "Swap Weapon" (which could even have a TU cost associated with it, representing having to flip a switch or reach for the other weapon's trigger).
Then the Weapon is effectively treated as if it is now the Auxiliary Weapon >>> the firing menu has firing mode options for the Aux Weapon, the Inventory still treats it as if it was the full size weapon but regarding ammunition it shows and deals with the ammo in the Aux Weapon rather than the primary.
(going one step further, though unnecessary, it could also change the sprite of the weapon showing the Auxiliary Portion of the weapon highlighted in Red or something, to indicate that part of the weapon is now selected >> I guess that could be the Sprite for the Aux Weapon itself though modders would be responsible for making those sprites).


(EDIT - - - Of course the easy way to do that is just have the Auxiliary Weapon itself have the same stats as the Primary Weapon . . . having the Primary one link to the Auxiliary, and the Auxiliary one have a revertsTo: option so that the weapon "transforms back" into the primary in any situation where the weapon has to go back into inventory shelf mode. That way switching an M4 Carbine to its M203 launcher isnt going to put it in the Base Inventory as an M203 Launcher . . . it just goes back on the shelf as its Parent weapon. The reverting itself could be done automatically . . . but being able to choose which thing it reverts to can give modders evil ideas about weapons mutating and transforming into other things after every mission)



The primary reason this would be beneficial for modders is you can build Underbarrel attachments based on advanced technology . . .

Using Xcom tech as an example . . . Mounting a Plasma Pistol to the bottom of a Rifle.

Or mounting Special Purpose auxiliary weapons to the gun.



Taking this a step further, down into the depths of hair spaghetti monster hell . . .
Modular Weapon Upgrades
Which work like the above but rather than linking the weapon to another weapon
It replaces or changes things about the existing one, transforming it into something else.

Example - Laser power booster for a Laser Pistol, making it look like it has a Silencer on the end of it basically. Increases the size of the laser pistol to 1x3 and increases its damage. But if you take it off it turns it back into a regular laser pistol again.

(in a similar vein you could make it to where the Laser Rifle itself is just a Laser Pistol with an attached Power Booster and Fitted Stock - - - like in the 90's incarnation of the movie Lost In Space where they had "build a better blaster" kits)


Im not saying these are feature requests, just one possible direction to take things (eventually, sorta, maybe).

Like the idea I had for Overpenetration.
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: smexyvami on August 27, 2014, 12:42:51 pm
@RSSwizard
all tho the mounted underbaral weaponry is vary modern and fallows the theam i am looking for i think it is vary hard to implement or even possible at all.

a few ideas on the conventional armors

alloy plate early game to replace modern vest plates
advanced teck and fiber weaving of polimers to strangthen the vests and other clothing
posable making alloy threads to weave into the armors for flexibility and mobility keeping alloy strength
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: guille1434 on August 27, 2014, 07:42:43 pm
Another way to model weapons with underbarrel attachments (grenade launchers, shotguns, etc...) would be to add Accuracy and Time Units consumption stats to ammo clips (which would override the main weapon said stats), so if you model an assault rifle with an underbarrel grenade launcher, you just only have to change magazines (te time you use to do it simulates the change in sights setup, for example). So after you switch magazines you are ready to fire the grenades, which have their own time units/accuracy stats, different from the rifle bullets.

So, if you fire a rifle with its regular bullet magazine, it will use the time units/accuracy of the rifle, and when you ready to fire grenades, the stats from the grenade "magazine" would override the rifle stats...
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2014, 08:22:10 pm
It's a clever idea and yes, it'd work, but I'm afraid it would be too misleading. There are weapons with multiple ammo types, and having an underbarrel launcher would look exactly the same, but it's not the same thing.

I'd vote for doing it properly, with some sort of a "crafting screen" where you install weapon mods and an additional option (or several) in the firing menu.
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 28, 2014, 02:34:45 am
It's a clever idea and yes, it'd work, but I'm afraid it would be too misleading. There are weapons with multiple ammo types, and having an underbarrel launcher would look exactly the same, but it's not the same thing.

I'd vote for doing it properly, with some sort of a "crafting screen" where you install weapon mods and an additional option (or several) in the firing menu.
Something like the "Hit" function with weapons I guess, since that's a thing. Could that work or would that require a new .exe file?
Title: Re: [Mod Request/Idea] Conventional Wepons
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 28, 2014, 02:44:09 am
Something like the "Hit" function with weapons I guess, since that's a thing. Could that work or would that require a new .exe file?

New exe, of course. And a new goddamn mechanics.