OpenXcom Forum

OpenXcom => Open Feedback => Topic started by: Infini on August 21, 2014, 08:21:19 pm

Title: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Infini on August 21, 2014, 08:21:19 pm
Please... 2 questions:

1- What is the default value (explosions height) ?

2- Alternate movement methods: it works with soldiers and tanks ?  If I press "Ctrl", what's next ?  I'm confused a bit.

Thank you   :)



Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Arthanor on August 21, 2014, 08:31:07 pm
1- Vanilla explosions were 1 layer, making them very odd (fly over a grenade and completely ignore it; you can have "bombers" having flying soldiers just dropping grenades instead of throwing)

2- hold control and then click where you want to go. Note that you need to press control before initiating movement at all (in case you use the arrow path markers/2 clicks movement confirmation). I have had mixed success with this, often ending with less TUs than I thought.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Infini on August 21, 2014, 11:05:50 pm
OK, I understand.
Thank you for your quick reply.

What is then the recommended setting for "explosion height" ? 0, 2 ?
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Arthanor on August 21, 2014, 11:26:43 pm
If I remember well, it says that 3 makes explosions 3D. At first I understood that to mean it was an approximation of a sphere, which would make sense. Now I am thinking it might just "stack" the explosions and make them cylinders, which doesn't really make sense..

I would say for that realism sake's, at least one level above and below should be affected by the explosion. More precisely? I don't know..
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: yrizoud on August 21, 2014, 11:29:51 pm
I avoid 0 because I find it cheap if my flyers are totally immune to enemy grenades,
but I also avoid 3 because it makes your explosives considerably more damaging to buildings - and it becomes too easy and tempting to raze a 3-level farm to toast the aliens inside.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Infini on August 21, 2014, 11:52:33 pm
So, it's 1 or 2...

Well, I roll the dice or someone knows the exact answer ?

 :-X
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 22, 2014, 12:02:30 am
I think 2 makes the most roundish explosion. (If you set it to 3, it works vertically as well as horizontally, which is stupid, since a tile's height is more than its width.)
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Arthanor on August 22, 2014, 12:24:36 am
So set to 3, one tile up = one tile sideways? That's probably what I was starting to see with the "cylindrical explosion". I'll try 2 too!
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Infini on August 22, 2014, 01:17:53 am
Quote
I think 2 makes the most roundish explosion. (If you set it to 3, it works vertically as well as horizontally, which is stupid, since a tile's height is more than its width.)

Everything is clear now.
You have my appreciation.

Merci   :)
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Align on August 22, 2014, 05:09:31 pm
Ah, I always thought the non-zero values was maximum number of vertical tiles and otherwise made no difference
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: BlackLibrary on August 22, 2014, 10:10:22 pm
Keep in mind that this damage also works on Proximity Grenades. 

meaning...a Proximity mine going off on, say, the second level will affect you one level beneath and above. 
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: RSSwizard on August 27, 2014, 04:35:17 am
Well that makes more sense.

I was starting to think Explosion Height just meant "this is how many vertical layers of the map it affects . . . 1 layer, 2 layers, or 3 layers".

The real deal with toasting a building is . . . for some reason Xcom has problems with Floor Tiles being blasted real easy. Its always had that problem it seems, UFO hull walls may stand up to a bomb but the floors inside wont. (at least thats the way it was in TFTD).
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: ivandogovich on August 27, 2014, 05:07:39 am
Actual values from Config file:


OptionDescriptionDefault
battleExplosionHeight:   
A coefficient that controls how much vertical power explosions have.
0 = Explosions are completely flat, as per the original game.
1 = -30 damage units per level (this penalty is in addition to the horizontal penalty of -10 damage per tile).
2 = -10 damage units per level.
3 = -5 damage units per level.
0
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: KORfan on September 02, 2014, 02:39:31 am
Has anyone checked to see if we can use an alien grenade to get through the roof of a UFO?
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: the_third_curry on September 03, 2014, 06:22:27 pm
Has anyone checked to see if we can use an alien grenade to get through the roof of a UFO?

No, UFO outer hulls and security walls have an armor of 100, inner hulls and floor tiles have an armor of 80, certain vulnerable walls have 70 armor, and damaged floor tiles have 50 armor. Explosions do half their damage to terrain, so only the Blaster Launcher's 200 HE damage is enough to guarantee you get through. The Alien Grenade has a damage of 90, which isn't enough to break through any UFO or Alien Base Wall. The Heavy Plasma can occasionally break some inner walls and vulnerable walls (guns do between 1/4 and 3/4 of their maximum damage.) There are also some mod weapons that are designed to take down walls.

For more information, you can check here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Destroying_Terrain
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: alienfood on September 04, 2014, 03:23:21 pm
2- hold control and then click where you want to go. Note that you need to press control before initiating movement at all (in case you use the arrow path markers/2 clicks movement confirmation). I have had mixed success with this, often ending with less TUs than I thought.
IIRC, the "strafe" movement adds 1TU for "forwardish" or "sidish" movement, and 2TU for "backwardish" movement. Thus if you move to the right, that is normally a 4TU move that would leave you looking right, but it is a 5TU strafe that leaves you looking forward. A backwards-right strafe would be 6TU move that leaves you looking forward.

The strafe code only works to adjacent squares,. Thus you can strafe only one square at a time, you can't lay in a strafing path with one click. It is most useful for moving sideways into a corridor.

You can "strafe" tanks, but the vehicle turns its turret not its hull. The turret stays turned which is great for flanking attacks. IIRC it costs 1TU for up to 90 deg turret turn, which is cheaper than turning the vehicle.

Strafing movement is aware of terrain cost, and the TU penalty is in addition to that. There is no terrain cost for turning a turret.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 04, 2014, 03:33:53 pm
"Backwardish" strafe? It's not possible, sadly.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: KORfan on September 04, 2014, 03:59:47 pm
No, UFO outer hulls and security walls have an armor of 100, inner hulls and floor tiles have an armor of 80, certain vulnerable walls have 70 armor, and damaged floor tiles have 50 armor. Explosions do half their damage to terrain, so only the Blaster Launcher's 200 HE damage is enough to guarantee you get through. The Alien Grenade has a damage of 90, which isn't enough to break through any UFO or Alien Base Wall. The Heavy Plasma can occasionally break some inner walls and vulnerable walls (guns do between 1/4 and 3/4 of their maximum damage.) There are also some mod weapons that are designed to take down walls.

For more information, you can check here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Destroying_Terrain

Makes sense.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: ivandogovich on September 04, 2014, 06:28:33 pm
I see that strafing and running is listed in the description.   I love the sideways strafe and use it alot.

However, I can't figure out "running" at all.  Ctrl click on a longer path seems to make no difference in my games.  Can someone tell me what "running" is supposed to do, and how to do it?

Cheers, Ivan :D
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Align on September 04, 2014, 11:24:36 pm
Use less TU per tile but more Energy. Doesn't work for immediately adjacent tiles, as then it assumes you're trying to strafe.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 05, 2014, 10:42:21 am
Use less TU per tile but more Energy. Doesn't work for immediately adjacent tiles, as then it assumes you're trying to strafe.

I... didn't know about it.

And it doesn't really make sense: if there's a specific running mode, then if you're not in this mode, it means you're definitely not running... And therefore shouldn't lose energy at all, or nearly so. This is rather illogical, no?
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Dioxine on September 05, 2014, 11:59:42 am
Yeah, it makes little sense, I agree. Anyway it uses 3 TU/3 Energy per tile instead of the standard 4/2, but there is no graphic representation. You've might been running without knowing it, Ivan :) Sadly using this ability requires to play the game with a calculator in hand, and this is not fun.
Strafing, however, is awesome... I think it saved more lives for me than smoke grenades, or at least close to it, and that's saying something.
Sadly there's no jumping or climbing (JA2 style), I'd really appreciate those :)
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: pkrcel on September 05, 2014, 02:54:22 pm
"Climbing" or sort of it would be a real boon, those pesky small bushes and low walls could very well be "jumped over" w/o the need to FIRE to breach  :P

"Hoping" on some surfaces like porches in urban areas or similar would do good, as also going THROUGH (open  ;D ) windows....

Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: ivandogovich on September 05, 2014, 03:18:18 pm
Strafing, however, is awesome... I think it saved more lives for me than smoke grenades, or at least close to it, and that's saying something.

Hmm... thats a great point... does anyone use strafing to take the first step off the Skyranger?
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Align on September 05, 2014, 05:50:15 pm
I... didn't know about it.

And it doesn't really make sense: if there's a specific running mode, then if you're not in this mode, it means you're definitely not running... And therefore shouldn't lose energy at all, or nearly so. This is rather illogical, no?
I guess it's more like the XCOM operatives and aliens always run, but with this they can sprint. Trained individuals can run a lot, but not indefinitely, and sprinting drains anyone fast.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: alienfood on September 07, 2014, 02:29:11 pm
"Backwardish" strafe? It's not possible, sadly.
That's right, I remember now. The issue was, for "backwards" directions, the unit moonwalks forward, then teleports to the rear of the tile behind, then moves forward into the center of the tile. This was ugly and weird so it got turned off. The fix would really be a flag to run the walking animation in reverse.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on December 16, 2023, 05:50:25 pm
Actual values from Config file:


OptionDescriptionDefault
battleExplosionHeight:   
A coefficient that controls how much vertical power explosions have.
0 = Explosions are completely flat, as per the original game.
1 = -30 damage units per level (this penalty is in addition to the horizontal penalty of -10 damage per tile).
2 = -10 damage units per level.
3 = -5 damage units per level.
0

Wow. That is not how I think it worked. My initial thought that explosion height is a hard cap. Meaning it does not extend beyond these many levels. Now you are saying with value > 0 it always extend vertically just with different penalty???
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on December 16, 2023, 05:57:01 pm
Anyone can explain how explosion height affect smoke grenades? With value > 0 does it mean it always max height up to ceiling? What does smoke explosion power means? Does it generate less smoke, less think smoke or what?
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Juku121 on December 16, 2023, 07:40:33 pm
AFAIK, 'power' for smoke and incendiary damage is just for the purpose of calculating the explosion radius (and height, as above). Smoke has no density, more smoke is 'thicker' smoke in X-Com. Wrong.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on December 16, 2023, 07:48:37 pm
Smoke has no density? All the descriptions I saw tell about each tile of smoke thinning down until it disappears.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Juku121 on December 16, 2023, 08:45:49 pm
My mistake, it does have density.
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on December 16, 2023, 10:44:29 pm
Back to initial question then.
How smoke works with different explosion heights?
Title: Re: Explosion height & Alternate movement methods
Post by: Juku121 on December 17, 2023, 05:52:18 am
As I understand it, it works the same as any other explosive. Assuming you've not changed radius calculation parameters, it calculates the explosion radius from the 'power' value and plops down a full-power (well, there seems to be a somewhat variable starting density/time-to-live, too; per tile, even) smoke instance on every tile in the radius. For explosion height, you get an additional malus to vertical radius depending on the 'battleExplosionHeight', or no verticality at all with the vanilla option.

But since you're forking the code, you can (try to) read it yourself. I haven't checked if the above is true code-wise, that's just my understanding from experience and documentation.