OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Aldorn on July 29, 2014, 01:38:28 pm
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Just to share an idea I implemented on my hell mod. Also it is more a concept for global mods (as FMP)
1) Reorganize ufopaedia entries in order to separate "advanced technologies" from "alien research" (screen shot 1)
- "Alien Artifacts" becomes "Advanced Technologies" (screen shot 2)
- "Alien Research" becomes "Alien Menace" (screen shot 3)
- Also moved Alien Items entries to "Weapons And Equipment" (screen shot 4)
2) Create ufopaedia entries for any ammunition, in order to display some description on ammo (weight, clipSize, ...) but on weapons too, regarding specific properties as autoShots, minRange, ArcingShot, Pellets, blastRadius, ...
See below (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg28157#msg28157)
3) Finally, I am working/brain storming on a way to "display" tech tree information
See below (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg28159#msg28159)
See then here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg29047#msg29047) for weaponry part
4) Another small modification : I also reworked the ufopaedia entries for crafts, to make them on same format (same position for characteristics)
See below (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg28161#msg28161)
5) Change Alien Missions presentation
See below (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg28169#msg28169)
6) Stats And Damage Modifiers
Adding some extra info on aliens, see below (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg28821#msg28821)
I attached stuff for (6)
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2) Create ufopaedia entries for any ammunition, in order to display some description on ammo (weight, clipSize, ...) but on weapons too, regarding specific properties as autoShots, minRange, ArcingShot, Pellets, blastRadius, ...
I tried to find a compromise for equipment or weapons without any ammunition
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I attached the rulesets to have an idea : it's a huge job, but I am satisfied by the result
3) Finally, I am working/brain storming on a way to "display" tech tree information
At this point, I am not yet sure if it's a real good idea to provide some guidance, but I think it could be necessary with new tech tree growing indefinitely... (thanks to Solars for its FMP !)
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4) Another small modification : I also reworked the ufopaedia entries for crafts, to make them on same format (same position for characteristics)
Without any great interest, but it's done...
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5) Change Alien Missions presentation
But I meet an issue regarding vanilla ufopaedia entries, as I have to delete them from Xcom1Ruleset.rul to make it work...
Anyway, result is better than just a purple background
To change appearance of vanilla ufopaedia entries, they have to be "deleted" in a first step, then it works well
Credits to Lebashar for "Lightning Ufo" image, that I split in two parts : "ground" for Alien Origin, Martian Solution and Cydonia or Bust, and "ufo" for other Alien Missions
Credits to Neoworm for frightening aliens
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Great work, and write up here. :D
I'm still struggling with editing graphics for these images with Photoshop. I've seen discussions saying that Photoshop/GIMP are not very good for editing images in OpenXcom as they down save the pallettes right. I down loaded the palettes from the thread, but can't figure out how to get Photoshop to use them (CS4). :-[
What image editor did you use, to put your images together? and any tricks there?
Cheers, Ivan :D
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I am not well placed to answer this kind of questions, as I am definitely not an expert, better to ask this in adequate threads ;)
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Awesome! and I think I figured it out:
Image>Mode>Colour Table, and "load"
Cheers, Ivan :D
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Here's a pic for Cydonia or Bust:
(https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/1/10/Cydonia.gif)
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I will test if it can suit with other background pictures
Thanks !
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And another one for the Martian Solution:
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00115/mars2_115916c.jpg)
Who colored the Research screen? It looks great!
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Excellent !
But I would be forced to cut it, or we will not see anything written on it ! :-\
(will try ;))
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Interesting, I also would to have some stats about weight or else in ufopedia. Do you plan to make something for ufopedia entries of aliens, where we can have more usefull infos than fictionnal-lore ?
I was primarily surprise to see the ufo-lightning but you don't have to credit me, I have only modify palette of image found quickly with google :-[
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Interesting, I also would to have some stats about weight or else in ufopedia. Do you plan to make something for ufopedia entries of aliens, where we can have more usefull infos than fictionnal-lore ?
I did not think about it yet, even if I bear in mind at least to make the alien damage type RR appear somewhere
I was primarily surprise to see the ufo-lightning but you don't have to credit me, I have only modify palette of image found quickly with google :-[
Yes sorry I did not ask you before, as I pick up many resources from many people here :-[ :-\ :P
EDIT :
Thanks to Hobbes, whom I apparently distracted from his tasks, an attempt with Mars and Cydonia
I keep a lot of space as it is needed for other languages (at least for french translation)
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Suggestion: on the Cydonia pic focus instead on the top third of the original image since it displays the Face on Mars.
(https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/3/39/The_face.jpg)
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Suggestion: on the Cydonia pic focus instead on the top third of the original image since it displays the Face on Mars.
(https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/3/39/The_face.jpg)
I never noticed this (culture culture...)
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Using NeoWorm's fanart is a high temptation...
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Don't get me started on fanart... how about his for Alien Research/Abductions?
(https://spoonyexperiment.com/reasons/reason3-xcom.jpg)
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You could also have a section on the UFOPaedia about base personnel to show the... multinational nature of the extraterrestrial combat unit...
(https://th01.deviantart.net/fs22/PRE/f/2009/249/2/d/Jolanta___X_COM_by_mrudowski.jpg)
(https://th08.deviantart.net/fs25/PRE/f/2009/249/a/0/Bianka___X_COM_by_mrudowski.jpg)
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Nice base personnel! Not sure it's quite the right image for the mood though ;)
Aldorn: That's really interesting! When/if I finish the XCom Armoury Expanded, I might well look into this to make it look pretty! Not sure about the tech tree, but for the FMP that could be very useful indeed.
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Using NeoWorm's fanart is a high temptation...
These look great, would be a nice addition to the game 8)
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6) Adding some extra info on aliens
I attached stuff for anyone who needs it here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2702.msg28156#msg28156)
I also included research section (but did not test it !) beware to Zombie part, perhaps have this to be provided by snakemen instead, or simply by chrysalid
- setting cost and points resp. to 50 and 5, but could be 0/0
- any stat info is researchable after live alien
- damage modifiers info is researchable after autopsy
Stats screen does not display Psionic Skill/Strength attributes. First it did, but I removed them because :
- not enough space to display the 11 attributes except of removing free lines
- because knowing this at the beginning of the game, just after first live alien interrogatory, and before knowing anything about psionics, could be strange
It contains all vanilla aliens + Waspite/Gazer/Anthropod (also Robin's aliens)
I didn't use Fanart as we only have two of them...
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Or maybe as additional info for researching a live alien? The additional info representing the "test" done to the alien after the interrogation is concluded, and explains why it ends up being a corpse once the project is over.
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Or maybe as additional info for researching a live alien? The additional info representing the "test" done to the alien after the interrogation is concluded, and explains why it ends up being a corpse once the project is over.
Right, better idea :)
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You could even do it in a 3 step process:
1- Get the UFOPaedia as it is now -> You learned what it is and how to keep it
2- Research again to get stats -> Run more tests with soldiers
3- Research again to get damage modifiers -> Run more tests with a variety of weapons.
I've always disliked how there is so little point to capturing aliens beyond the first leader and commander. I'm not keep on making research totally dependent on interrogating aliens (as I don't think most would know much, I sure don't know how to make a phone or computer despite using one every day), but getting something out of it would be neat and stats are an easy one which adds to the immersion: See an alien for the first time? Better capture it to know how to fight it!
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@Aldorn: do not paste pictures over, instead change mode -> Indexed Color -> custom palette, it's a sin to have those great pictures so ugly and grainy :)
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For me it should be logical to have stats and resistance after the first autopsie, and not after a live alien interrogation.
The research process for me si you first studie a corpse, than, you learn how to keep him alive or kill them faster and then you could try to capture one which can talk and give some others informations.
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I updated link above with attached ruleset and ufopaedia sprites
You could even do it in a 3 step process:
1- Get the UFOPaedia as it is now -> You learned what it is and how to keep it
2- Research again to get stats -> Run more tests with soldiers
3- Research again to get damage modifiers -> Run more tests with a variety of weapons.
I did this in research but not tested
@Aldorn: do not paste pictures over, instead change mode -> Indexed Color -> custom palette, it's a sin to have those great pictures so ugly and grainy :)
I will try this, thanks for the hint
Sometimes I do right, sometimes wrong, I have to train (particularly of changing palettes depending on what about I'm working...)
For me it should be logical to have stats and resistance after the first autopsie, and not after a live alien interrogation.
The research process for me si you first studie a corpse, than, you learn how to keep him alive or kill them faster and then you could try to capture one which can talk and give some others informations.
In fact I did this
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For me it should be logical to have stats and resistance after the first autopsie, and not after a live alien interrogation.
The research process for me si you first studie a corpse, than, you learn how to keep him alive or kill them faster and then you could try to capture one which can talk and give some others informations.
I don't know.. Can you tell how fast/strong/resilient something is by just looking at a corpse? It seems to me that experimenting on a live specimen would be a better way to get stats/modifiers than a corpse. You get to watch it lift weights (or shoot it in the face to get the modifiers :P Take that you stupid chrysalis!)
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@Aldorn: do not paste pictures over, instead change mode -> Indexed Color -> custom palette, it's a sin to have those great pictures so ugly and grainy :)
Could you make a try yourself, as I cannot do better
I attached original ones
Aim is to make it 320X200 and nicely displayable under Ufopaedia
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Here you go Sir, nice & clean (the grain has its own perks, while the grainy Muton is simply ugly, the grainy Sectoid has its charm; my take on it might need further adjustments).
I'm also adding the proper Ufopaedia palette (.act), it's straight from Falko so it can't be wrong in any way :)
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Here you go Sir, nice & clean (the grain has its own perks, while the grainy Muton is simply ugly, the grainy Sectoid has its charm; my take on it might need further adjustments).
I'm also adding the proper Ufopaedia palette (.act), it's straight from Falko so it can't be wrong in any way :)
Thank you very much
You will be in charge to make it for next pictures from NeoWorm, if even he decide to draw some more aliens
I tried what you proposed (many tests), exactly, but resizing it, before or after, made lots of small orange pixels
Thanks for the palette too, I will compare it to the ufopaedia palette from Sup, should be the same
I will alert Neo about this, so he isn't surprised
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Thank you very much
You will be in charge to make it for next pictures from NeoWorm, if even he decide to draw some more aliens
I tried what you proposed (many tests), exactly, but resizing it, before or after, made lots of small orange pixels
No problem. What you say about resizing is puzzling, I haven't noticed such an effect... I do resize before converting the palette. Then, after converting, it's often neccessary to go back and increase saturation and/or brightness, or adjust the hue so the coloration lies more in line with the ufopaedia palette. Generally it's better to avoid saturated greens and oranges as it tends to create a lot of these 'rogue' pixels.
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No problem. What you say about resizing is puzzling, I haven't noticed such an effect... I do resize before converting the palette. Then, after converting, it's often neccessary to go back and increase saturation and/or brightness, or adjust the hue so the coloration lies more in line with the ufopaedia palette. Generally it's better to avoid saturated greens and oranges as it tends to create a lot of these 'rogue' pixels.
I wondered if you had a secret, now I know :P
Back to the 3) Brain storming on a way to "display" tech tree information
I worked on different technologies :
- aim is to propose a brief description of what may be expected
- display what else could be needed (in order to not try to interrogate a engineer or a medic if we just need to search Elerium to reach our next goal)
- second aim is to alert on next technology
- added also cost info (i.e. men.hours needed) in title, within parenthesis, so that we have more elements to build our strategy
- tech tree is a supplementary step, but is not really time consuming
- I use many screens for displaying info to avoid overloading screens, but all are unlocks at the same time and will be correctly sequenced via listorder
- in examples below, first step, also "Alloy Technology Tree", is unlocks by Alien Alloys, then go on weapons ! (stunning technology is missing)
- as an example of interest :
-> Given that Mass Accelerator is triggered by MIB (also meet them, and discover some Mass Accelerator weapons, interrogate right MIB unit)
-> Assuming that Heat-Ray is reached before : next step is Laser, which needs both Heat-Ray + Mass Accelerator
-> This is also a way to notify that another technology (Mass Accelerator) is mandatory to go ahead on advanced technologies
-> I do not mention how to search for Mass Accelerator Technology, but as soon as right MIB unit is interrogated, it allows "Mass Accelerator Technology Tree"
Some examples
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Some more
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I'm not really like this exhaustive pedia. For me, the unknow is a part of the research, and it should remain the same. The thing which should be changed is to give more information of what scientists assume : "we have discover that, and we think with some studies of this we can probably found something usefull".
In my mind there is two thing to avoid :
- too easy research, like in vanilla's
- too difficult because totally unrevealed research path, like in some mods were you need many step but without any clues about that
So there must be some step, and the player should have some clues, but not the exactly right path.
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This looks awesome. Seriously great work.
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I'm not really like this exhaustive pedia. For me, the unknow is a part of the research, and it should remain the same. The thing which should be changed is to give more information of what scientists assume : "we have discover that, and we think with some studies of this we can probably found something usefull".
In my mind there is two thing to avoid :
- too easy research, like in vanilla's
- too difficult because totally unrevealed research path, like in some mods were you need many step but without any clues about that
Also giving time needed, even if not rational, is a good thing (especially in a mod making research harder to be performed, either by research cost or by reducing number of scientists as I'm intended to do)
So there must be some step, and the player should have some clues, but not the exactly right path.
I don't disagree at all as keeping mystery is nice, but :
- research tree is multiplied per 4 (also I don't know exactly but a lot of steps are added)
- if you have a look at all games from more than ten years, a global tech tree is quite always provided
Also giving time needed, even if not rational, is a good way to allow a real research strategy (especially in a mod making research harder to be performed, either by research cost or by reducing number of scientists as I'm intended to do)
I will bear in mind your advice, and wait for eventual some other opinions :)
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I'm not really like this exhaustive pedia. For me, the unknow is a part of the research, and it should remain the same. The thing which should be changed is to give more information of what scientists assume : "we have discover that, and we think with some studies of this we can probably found something usefull".
In my mind there is two thing to avoid :
- too easy research, like in vanilla's
- too difficult because totally unrevealed research path, like in some mods were you need many step but without any clues about that
So there must be some step, and the player should have some clues, but not the exactly right path.
I agree with this.
In real life, research leads to unknown things, and how are we supposed to know what's new after that?
I found OpenXcom/Vanilla Xcom interesting, a bit of mystery enhances the game experience overall. Even using Solar's FMP, the game has got much more exciting now as I ponder the mysteries of what my research team will discover!
I don't disagree at all as keeping mystery is nice, but :
- research tree is multiplied per 4 (also I don't know exactly but a lot of steps are added)
- if you have a look at all games from more than ten years, a global tech tree is quite always provided
Just because games in all recent and old years have a provided tech tree doesn't mean that it's better. It's just "common", not necessarily best. Being different gives an game a real edge.
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There is also the fact that in some other games the research tree unfolds in different ways, and it's INTEGRAL part of the mechanics (think Civ) while in Xcom it's more like a 'collateral'....I mean, you only STRICTLY need the Alien research & craft construction to be able to complete the game (thou good luck going to cydonia with Rifles!) and this gives you some insights in alien tech that you can use (mostly personal armors which share a lot with crafts).
I personally would like something on the grounds proposed by LeBashar: do not spoil right away research giving a perfet 'tree' but give some indication on what COULD be discovered (so that if we need a Commander, we know we should capture one....vanilla Martian Solution anyone?)
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So I am at least convinced to make this as an option ;)
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if you have a look at all games from more than ten years, a global tech tree is quite always provided
I think it's a common mistake. Take for example "civilization". In your first game, even with the complete tech tree, you don't really know what is the better path, because you lack of real clues.
After you finish the game many time and begun to found it too easy, you'll read strategy guides (or made your own) and after that, the tech tree has lost all point because you perfectly know what is usefull and what is not.
And this is why I say it's a mistake : when you discover the game you don't need it because there is so much to discover, and when you are a veteran, you don't need it no more = tech complete tech tree is useless in both of cases.
But you lack clues for help you to make the right choice, in your first game. In civ's, this has been partially solve by "advisors", which give you advice for what next tech you should discover in function of some flavor (military advisor or economic, etc.). But it is not sufficiant because the advisor don't tell you why you should discover this before that.
In openXcom, we have the vanilla's model :
- nearly no hided tech, and the only "tech path" is clearly explain in ufopedia : "you need a leader", or "you need a commander".
And the TFTD's :
- some hided tech but with no clue. You must research "depp one" to be able to search aquaplastic, but nowhere it is said, and it is not even logical. The same for vibrolam which need calcinite autopsie, but why ? you could be stoped in research tree but without any way to know how to restart.
The right path for me is between this two. You need to have as much clues in the game to avoid the need of searching elsewhere informations in wiki or else, but, you should don't have all informations, because it will break the mysterie and discovery part (and was boring for those who don't even read when there is too much informations).
And for the time the research will consume, the player will quickly be informed of that, by begining it. After few days, the progression show him if it will be a short research or not.
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Right right right, even if I stay seduced by my idea
I just have to precise, that at the beginning, only Alloy Tech Tree is available (as many are against this, I wonder if it's not so obvious that you don't have access to all the 7 screens from start, just the first one on Alloy Tech)
EDIT : at the beginning, you have nothing at all ; once you search for Alien Alloys, it unlocks Alloy Tech Tree
To display the Tech Tree of next technology (also Gauss), you have to fit requirements (also last Gauss step + eventual external dependencies)
Same for Heat-Ray : you don't even hear of it before seeing the reference to "Heat-Ray Technology Tree" in Gauss Tech Tree, and you don't know anything more about it more at this point except that it exists
But this will be an option
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Coming back to this...
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Regarding tech trees: they're crucial in MP games (Civ!), so the players have an equal footing lore-wise, but in single games, it is like LeBashar said... For a rookie, it's a spoiler, for a veteran, it's useless. However I agree that there should be clues provided, either by previous research, or by cheap opening topics (ex. Laser Weapons) which would broadly explain what to expect of that technology branch.