OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Yankes on June 24, 2014, 08:14:41 pm
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I made some mockup of possible placing 2 new weapons on intercept window:
(https://i.imgur.com/Uey5U4F.png?1)
What you think about this placement?
[edit]
Code is available at:
https://github.com/Yankes/OpenXcom/tree/MoreCraftWeapons
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I think it's a good idea. It could be used in the future to diversify crafts (more creative space for modders).
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I'd like that. of course, given the current weapons, a four-weapon craft would be waaayy overpowered, but if you nerf the weapons accordingly... this would be very interesting.
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I'd like that. of course, given the current weapons, a four-weapon craft would be waaayy overpowered, but if you nerf the weapons accordingly... this would be very interesting.
Or raise damageMax of ufos...
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great solution please merge ? :)
(i hope you sort the weapons that longrange comes in the upper position )
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I'd imagine this would require extensive programming work in the source code within the Craft Armament window, UI, and programming behind it, as well as the battle screen as well as all damage modifiers code for attacks... Seems like a lot of work :)
What about a new stronger weapon if you so desire? Maybe.... nuclear missile or something I dunno..
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This is mockup, I can merge .png with .cpp file :D
I simply wanted testes how it would look like if I add more weapons.
Sorting weapons by range is good idea, this will solve problem with crossing lines.
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A wonderful initiative! Not only for X-Com, but also Piratez and the like.
Sorting weapons by range is good idea, this will solve problem with crossing lines.
Yeah, I think this is necessary.
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One balancing factor could be introducing the notion of weapon size or slot type. Power draw and/or weight limit could also be options. You'll never fit three plasma cannons (large energy slot) on a basic interceptor that only has one small ballistic slot, two medium missile slots, and nowhere near enough power output to feed them or enough thrust to take off with that kind of load. :P
As for the display, you could also colourcode the weapons and their range-markers. R/G/B/Y.
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Can't wait to see that implemented into the game! 3-4 weapon pods/mounts crafts would allow for very interesting strategy!
There are concerns with crafts being overpowered, but besides already mentioned solutions, 4 weapons could be limited to only very early designs with 2-3 weapons reserved for later ones. I'm sure it will be possible to balance everything.
Sorting weapons by range is good idea, this will solve problem with crossing lines.
I don't think it will, because aircraft could be equipped with 4 identical weapons, for example Avalanche Lounchers - so still at some point lines would cross. Unless I don't understand what you mean by crossing lines. :)
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I don't think it will, because aircraft could be equipped with 4 identical weapons, for example Avalanche Lounchers - so still at some point lines would cross. Unless I don't understand what you mean by crossing lines. :)
No, I think you understand well. But if there are weapons with the same range, it should be pretty clear from the picture anyway.
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+1 ::)
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This would give modders options. I like it. Also it would be nice to give the player the abitity to turn off some wepons for example fusion ball luncher when fighting small UFOs.
Also if you could add a list of wepons that can't go in some slots would be usfull. XCom and UFO craft weapons would need to be rebalanced but they need that anyway.
It would also be nice if UFO could have more then one weapon. for example a week long range one and a more powerfull short range one.
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This would give modders options. I like it. Also it would be nice to give the player the abitity to turn off some wepons for example fusion ball luncher when fighting small UFOs.
That's already in, just click the weapon icon to deactivate it. :)
Also if you could add a list of wepons that can't go in some slots would be usfull. XCom and UFO craft weapons would need to be rebalanced but they need that anyway.
You mean different kinds of weapons slots? I'm not against it, but I'd prefer a more technical approach, like in 4X strategies (StarDrive etc.) For example, energy management - a craft can only produce a number of energy units, and each weapon has energy consumption level, so you can't strap four most powerful guns on any plane. Something like that.
It would also be nice if UFO could have more then one weapon. for example a week long range one and a more powerfull short range one.
Yes, and possibly limited missiles. :)
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This time real screen of weapon equip:
4 weapons
(https://i.imgur.com/FDdWJQF.png?1)
1 weapon
(https://i.imgur.com/oNwxjAW.png?1)
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All in one, that's crazy
So 4 craft weapons are possible, this is interesting.
I am sure there is something to do with this to make UFO interceptions a bit more tactical. Have to brainstorm about it.
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work is done :)
(https://i.imgur.com/wTdiYrD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6zAfIlO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lcS9nmx.png)
https://github.com/Yankes/OpenXcom/tree/MoreCraftWeapons
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I don't think it will, because aircraft could be equipped with 4 identical weapons, for example Avalanche Lounchers - so still at some point lines would cross. Unless I don't understand what you mean by crossing lines. :)
Here you have an example of "crossing" lines (on 3rd screen)
But result is nice :)
I think it's just a best practice to acquire : always equip low-range craft weapons on bottom slots, and high-range craft weapons on top slots
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That's great Yankes! Love it! Is there relation between weapon pod number and its placement on tactical screen? (during ufo angagement) Like 1-2 on top, 3-4 on bottom?
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Maybe you can add weight into consideration and let us decide how much ammo we wanna load each gun with to make sure we don't hit that weight limit. That should help with balance after much testing.
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or... you could just have two weapons with twice as much ammo that fire twice as fast, do you REALLY need that many options?
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or... you could just have two weapons with twice as much ammo that fire twice as fast, do you REALLY need that many options?
This allows to activate 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% of craft weapon's power, and possibly have 4 different types of craft weapon :P
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That's great Yankes! Love it! Is there relation between weapon pod number and its placement on tactical screen? (during ufo angagement) Like 1-2 on top, 3-4 on bottom?
opposite, original weapons are on the bottom. They stay in original spot.
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This allows to activate 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% of craft weapon's power, and possibly have 4 different types of craft weapon :P
so why stop at 4? why not 10? why have any limit?
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its your fault - you devs gave the ruleset a weapons parameter and everybody wanted to increase it :)
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so why stop at 4? why not 10? why have any limit?
That's your job to tell us what are the limits... ;)
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Wait did you actually build it and get it working in game?? Or is this a mockup. o0
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That's your job to tell us what are the limits... ;)
320x200 8)
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That's your job to tell us what are the limits... ;)
2
... but i'm clearly not going to win this so why bother resisting it?
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I think the only real gain we'd have from this is more variety of craft, which people seem to generally like a lot (including myself). However, adding two slots to the max number wouldn't change a thing by itself. You also need some sort of mechanics that makes craft design viable.
I don't have a ready system in my head, but I suppose it would involve weapon slot types, so that you wouldn't be able to load anything on any slot. Or maybe some sort of energy requirement for weapons, so that you wouldn't be able to fire 4 Plasma Beams at once without having enough power sources, for example. Or maybe there would be various sizes of weapons, some of them taking more than one slot, so you can choose between four Vulcan cannons or two Vulcan cannons and an AA-gun or two AA guns or just one big ass gun.
Therefore, allowing for 4 slots is not a feature in itself, but it's a necessary step if this system is to be introduced. Since this is a rather big project, and not exactly related to remaking X-Com games, I fully understand it's not a priority (to put it mildly). However, it could have great modding potential.
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so why stop at 4? why not 10? why have any limit?
6, more dont fit intercept window without big overhaul. 6 will fit if craft dont have cargo (equip screen) and in interceptor window ammo numbers will be replace by bars. However this will further alter UI that even or my is probably to much (because we need remove something to fit new ones).
Then leave 4 that need only rearrange of equip screen.
I think more weapons slot is very useful for molders, it allows adding new tiers of craft that have bigger firepower than previous tier.
Currently xcom have only tow tiers, normal and half. Difference between Interceptor, Firestorm and Avenger is only in HP when you try destroy ufo.
If we add third weapon to Firestorm it could be used in late game even if you have Avengers.
This change will allow adding new more powerful ufo to fight against you.
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Having 4 slots could allow to equip more weapons, or perhaps some other types of craft modules in charge of buffing craft (speed, damage, radar, capacity, ...)
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I like the idea with some kind of radar pod increasing craft's ufo detection range!
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Idea of using this new slots for optional modules is interesting.
It could be interesting if we could mod afterburner that decrease range but increase top speed or fuel tanks increasing range.
This will add more depth to globe gameplay.
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Giving people options is good. And if every thing in this thread got done I would be happy. But in terms bang for your buck I don't see then need for more then 2 maybe 4 weapon points. But I do like the idea of flagging some of the points to only hold some type of weapon like in xenonauts. if you could give weapons a flag and say some weapon points could only hold that flag type.
If some one wanted to add an after buner to an intercept they could make a new faster interceptor with one weapon slot and have the mender factor cost include the old interceptor. (Btw if I did this would the player need an empty hanger to build it?)
I think it would be much more interesting to have more weapons on ufos.
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Limiting what weapons might be installed is good idea, because currently its no-brainer to go from avalanche x2, to Lasers x2, to Plasma x2. I suggest either:
a) not allowed to use two same weapons in one craft
or
b) different weapon slots: odd slots would be for "cannons" (cannon, laser, beam), even would be for "missiles" (stingray, avalanche, fusion ball)
There could be option called "craft armament rules", with a choice between those two above and "no restrictions"
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Has any of this been added to the Nightly Build's yet or is it still just discussion?
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discussion, but if you can use compiler you could compile it yourself.
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discussion, but if you can use compiler you could compile it yourself.
Sorry - I'm not that good with code :'(
How ever if it happens I'll help test it ;D
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+1, great idea. I always felt that the avenger should have had 4 weapons. Maybe someday I'll be able to get a mod for that :)
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Balance-wise it might be excessive but there's just something I love about the idea of slapping 2 heavy and 2 cheaper weapons on the Avenger and disabling them according to the UFO...
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Swagvenger?
:)
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I built Yankes modified codebase and was really impressed - this just works and looks really cleanly implemented.
Clearly great for modding but 100% useless for faithful 1994 game reproduction.
Is there any chance of it being considered for inclusion in the main build?
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Right now is "on hold" because Warboy dont feel that feature is strong enough to be included to master branch.
Maybe after Warboy finish TFTD support it will be merged. Meanwhile I will try keep it update with master branch.
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Someone could make a sticky thread with all these code modifications to have a neat little list of stuff ready for merging. So far I know about this, more than 8 bases and extended view range. All looks like nice stuff for potencial complex mods.
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Hell yeah. This would allow for making truly varied ships; right now there isn't enough variation. If there were also varied slot sizes... we could outdo Apocalypse here :) I'd definitely want this feature implemented! But more than 4 weapons are really uneccessary.
Crucial things that have been said:
- varied slot types, so you can go, say 1xCannon, 2xStingray/Avalanche, but no 3xeither (slot being an array like weaponTypes [0, 1, 2, 4], you could have any number of "types" and any slot could have any combination of them;
- sizes (say weapon taking 2 slots) would just confuse people due to how the interface looks and are unneccesary;
- "weapons" that increase speed, health, radar, fuel, whatever - brilliant! This would allow to upgrade ships as the tech progresses, and custom-tailor them to their role.
- Sorting weapons by range on the interception window. Small, but important idea
- Marking slot types: probably unneccessary. Not everything has to be marked, the slot would display the list of valid weapons available when clicked, so why clutter the interface. Also this is simple enough that people can simply learn what goes where in what craft.
Hope Warboy is going to change his mind, this feature might not be vanilla but it's modder's heaven, especially after externalizing radar ranges and so on... while not altering the base game in any way, and certainly being *in the vein* of XCom (Apocalypse did this!)
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Suspect your branch will become a de facto starting point for modders once they realise it exists, but from warboys perspective changes like this are a maintenance nightmare even if they're coded well.
Dioxine - agree 100% that slot sizes would pollute the interface without adding much that couldn't be done by slot types. If you really wanted a big gun that could only be mounted in one place (like apoc's heavy disrupter), you could just give it its own type.
Slot types are definitely tough to represent on the interface at 320x200. I wondered if rather than displaying the slot number (actually a bit useless), the buttons could show text like "Missile" (and be a bit bigger), or ideally have small icons to distinguish the types of equipment allowed in place of the number.
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Yes, this would be very good from the point of view of "customizing" the aircraft... I really would be so happy to see it implemented...
Also, craft weapons could be given a weight (and may be each hardpoint a maximum weight carrying capacity, so you could limit what weapon can be fixed to any particular hardpoint), and the craft can also be given "encumbrance"... so if you put a heavy weapon load on a craft, it would suffer some performance penalty in range - speed - acceleration, just like the foot soldiers when given a heavy load of equipment.
Another idea I want to put under consideration is that if X-Com ground soldiers improve with their battle experience... Why not to add the recruitment of aicraft pilots and assign them to craft and also they will be gaining batter stats after they battle the UFOs in air-to-air combat... Also if the aircraft is damaged, they would return to base with wounds, and they will also be a number of days off-duty, just like the foot soldiers... Also, if the craft is destroyed it can be made that there is a chance that the pilot ejected and then you can mount a rescue mission to save the valuable pilot from the aliens who want to capture or kill him (more or less like Ufo Aftermath). I know that this is not very "Vanilla X-Com", but it would be only an optional addition, and any player could choose not to play with this feature. I think it would be nice to have "Air aces" modded in game. Just my two cents to this wonderful and immortal game!!! :-) 8)
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So far I know about this, more than 8 bases and extended view range.
And the Commendations mod. :)
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I'd have preferred XCom soldiers to pilot the crafts themselves... :) there was an old discussion I took part in how to make this work mechanics-wise (skills used: bravery, reactions, firing acc), I've proposed mechanics of pilot's wounding/KIA/rescue etc. as well. Of course you could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if more than 1 type of Xcom soldier was supported (so a modder could have it both ways - either sticking to 1 type like I would, or adding special "pilot" class who's the only class who can pilot (but would be available for ground missions as well - only his non-aircraft related stats would be rather abysmal..."
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Yes, the pilot could be added in the craft cockpit in the battlescape... and should also be, in an emergency, able to defend himself, but his ground combat stats, and quantity of weaponry and armor he can carry should not be the same as the infantry troops. And, yes, is a good idea to add the pilot as a unit in the battlefield but with the special "pilot" skill... It would look like a soldier, but he should be the only one able to pilot the craft. In short, a unit (soldier) with the same stat classes as the regular troops but with the added pilot attribute.
That would be nice!
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Scientists in apoc had a "science skill"...
I could see two ways something more "global" could be implemented:
1) a unit can have one "special stat". If it doesn't have one, it is a soldier. If it's "piloting", it's a pilot. There's also "engineering" and "science". In a battlescape, the basic stats are used (base defense etc.). For vanilla purposes, engineers and scientists have their special stat at 100 ( = percent of one work hour provided by unit) and cannot improve their special stat
2) every unit has every stat... in a modded game, even soldiers could be used to manufacture or research stuff, although most will suck at doing so. But perhaps you have a scientist who actually shoots rather well, and can be useful in a battlefield situation... I could totally imagine a modded game where you have much less personnell, but each is much more versatile... a game where the choice may be "do I take Agent Johnson on that downed UFO mission because he's good with his SMG, or do I leave him in the lab, researching that alien artifact..."
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Very well said Moriarty! I like this idea... For example, engineers can do (a less efficient) scientist work, and viceversa... Also they can form a last stand base defense if there are no soldiers present or if the squad is out. May be we will have to mod in some acid filled flasks as improvised hand-thrown wepons? Hehe... 8) :o
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Agreed! This works for the super-secret organization like X-Com.
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It would need to be implemented carefully, though, to avoid disturbing the vanilla experience. That said, I guess this falls cleanly into the realm of modding. It would still be nice, though. I always liked apoc's way of "fleshing out" the scientists and engineers by giving them names and stats.
For keeping it close(r) to vanilla, I'd say my abovementioned option 1) is better. In order to make it as "open" as possible, I'd prefer option 2). It's more RPG-like.
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I like option 2 (also, programming-wise, it's probably even easier to implement than 1), although a single "piloting" skill sounds kind of bland :) I was thinking about several aspects of piloting:
- craft weapon accuracy [firing accuracy]
- the speed of getting close/disengaging UFO [bravery]
- "dodge" (effectively decreases UFO accuracy) [reactions]
But a Piloting skill could be an overaching % modifier, affecting the effect of the aforementioned; with a normal soldier (scientist, engineer) having it at 0, his bravery etc. won't improve his performance in craft combat. A pilot who increases 4 skills, however... this sounds much more interesting than increasing a single skill (pilots much more varied, but only 1 new skill).
Engineers and Scientists however only need their respective Engineering and Science skills as vanilla doesn't give them any area of performance than "working faster"; but the ability to take them on missions sounds cool!
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I like option 2 (also, programming-wise, it's probably even easier to implement than 1), although a single "piloting" skill sounds kind of bland :) I was thinking about several aspects of piloting:
- craft weapon accuracy [firing accuracy]
- the speed of getting close/disengaging UFO [bravery]
- "dodge" (effectively decreases UFO accuracy) [reactions]
But a Piloting skill could be an overaching % modifier, affecting the effect of the aforementioned; with a normal soldier (scientist, engineer) having it at 0, his bravery etc. won't improve his performance in craft combat. A pilot who increases 4 skills, however... this sounds much more interesting than increasing a single skill (pilots much more varied, but only 1 new skill).
Engineers and Scientists however only need their respective Engineering and Science skills as vanilla doesn't give them any area of performance than "working faster"; but the ability to take them on missions sounds cool!
on that note you could have designated soldiers like heavy weapons,sniper,medic,ect maybe having there proficiency affected by there armors like medics work better in lighter armor
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on that note you could have designated soldiers like heavy weapons,sniper,medic,ect maybe having there proficiency affected by there armors like medics work better in lighter armor
Considering rookies seemingly have no combat training AT ALL, I don't think they should have combat specializations... :P
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Considering rookies seemingly have no combat training AT ALL, I don't think they should have combat specializations... :P
this is true but there life style befor becing xcom can be taken into condiseration ie hunter people hunt for sport of for the fun of the kill and meat of the animal some people are good shots so thay can be adept for sniper classes
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Classes could be interesting, but it defeats the purpose of the flexible stat system and random recruits of XCom.
A possible alternative would be being able to recruit multiple classes of rookies. Soldier with good combat stats, marksman with higher accuracy, lower everything else, medic (with higher "healing" if that ever becomes a stat), combat engineer (ex.: explosives do more damage). But balancing all the kinds so they are relevant, and implementing support for classes in the game, is probably too much work to be worth it (and far enough to the original that the developers might not even be interested).
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...and pilot! :)
(And scientists and engineers too.)
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Indeed! I forgot the one guy that was related to the topic...
Scientific/Engineer with combat stats could be interesting (defend the base only personel who can take alien artefacts that only them can take? If it's desperate enough to press the scientists in the fight, you might as well use crazy alien weaponry too!)
And then.. combat engineers/lab rats who can take weapons that are being researched right now..! (and also contribute to research/manufacture at the base).
The possibilities are endless! If only it were as easy to implement as it is to think about them..!
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Soldier classes, we had this in 2012 and see how "well" it went... BUT the idea, I think, was the ability to make specific suits of armor that give the soldier an edge in some "class", boosting their natural talents in that area. And this is good. So far, however, there's no way to make a good medic except for perhaps boosting his TUs :) Looks like the medikits are made for morons and no doctors are needed. A bit shame... Hmm, maybe the Scientist skill should decrease TU needed to heal? (healing boost would be too OP).
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And back to the original topic - does anyone know if this has been put in the nightly code yet or are we still waiting?
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Wasn't and probably never will be if you ask me. But it is afaik fully working in Yankes' OXCom Extended build.
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I needed this!! Thank you so much!!
Just one question...how do I implement this?
So far, however, there's no way to make a good medic except for perhaps boosting his TUs :) Looks like the medikits are made for morons and no doctors are needed.
Maybe there could be a medikit that doesn't require research but you have to be a medic to use it--it might be better than the any-soldier variant and/or might receive a buff after that one has been researched.