OpenXcom Forum
Modding => OpenXcom Extended => OXCE Suggestions DONE => Topic started by: Unknown Hero on June 24, 2014, 01:39:55 am
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4) Motion Scanner.
The Motion Scanner is an underrated equipment. It's powerful, but a real pain to use.
The player need to draw a diagram on a piece of paper and count the tiles on the combat zone. If only...
(https://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/598842ScannerOpen01.png)
After using the Motion Scanner, all the spotted aliens are indicated by a 3D red box at there locations on the combat area for the whole turn duration.
Spotted XCom soldiers are also indicated if they do not move meantime.
Also, allow the soldiers to use the Mind Probe on the indicated 3D red boxes.
(https://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/764064Scanner01.png)
But look at all these buttons and displays unused... ....clearly the developpers have not had enough time to fully develop the Motion Scanner.
(https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/934304ScannerOpen06.png)
First, to maintain consistency with the minimap color code (Aliens indicated with blue dots, Xcom soldiers indicated with yellow dots), the Motion Scanner flashing spots should be changed to flashing blue dots for the Aliens, and flashing yellow dots for XCom soldiers (current default color).
Also, during Terror missions, the Civilians flashing dots must adopt a different color to differenciate them (they are also indicated at there locations with 3D boxes the same color on the combat area).
The player can left click on a flashing dots directly on the display to have information about the alien. A red circle is displayed around the flashing blue dot selected.
The top screen to the right displays the alien name (Muton), and the bottom screen displays the Muton sprite. The player can click on the Muton sprite to have advanced information: "The Muton takes 0.6x damage from armour-piercing weaponry.", etc.
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The top left blue button allows to change the flashing dots displayed. By default all the Battlescape levels are shown, the text "ALL" is displayed over the button.
By left clicking one time the button, only the Level 0 dots are displayed (the text "0" is displayed over the button);
another left click, only the Level 1 dots are displayed (the text "1" is displayed over the button);
another left click, only the Level 2 dots are displayed (the text "2" is displayed over the button);
another left click, only the Level 3 dots are displayed (the text "3" is displayed over the button);
another left click, all the dots on all levels are displayed (the text "ALL" is displayed over the button).
At any time, right clicking one time on the button displays all the dots on all levels (the text "ALL" is displayed over the button).
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A new device can be researched after the Motion Scanner: the Remote Scanner Probe.
Remote Scanner Probe:
Size: 1 high x 1 wide
Weight: 3
Activating: 50%
Throwing: 25%
Explosions Resistance: 8
Manufacturing: $24,000 for parts, 310 Engineer Hours
Sell Price: $32,100
The Remote Scanner Probe works just like the Motion Scanner, except it only have a detection system, and a data transmission system has been added.
The soldier need to activate it before to throw it to be usable. The Remote Scanner Probe is fragile, so beware when the soldiers throw their grenades (or aliens grenades, and the alien AI can also be educated to destroy them ;-) ).
Once activated, the Remote Scanner Probe automatically sends data to all the Motion Scanners used by soldiers.
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The top right green button allows to change the data displayed on the Motion Scanner screen. By default the local Motion Scanner data are shown (the one used by the soldier), the text "00" is displayed over the button.
If Remote Scanner Probes were launched, the Motion Scanner can display the transferred data.
Each Remote Scanner Probe gets automatically a number to be recognized.
The first launched Remote Scanner Probe gets the "01" number, the second launched Remote Scanner Probe gets the "02" number, etc.
By left clicking one time the button, the data from the Remote Scanner Probe 01 are displayed (the text "01" is displayed over the button);
another left click, the data from the Remote Scanner Probe 02 are displayed (the text "02" is displayed over the button);
another left click, the local Motion Scanner data are shown (the one used by the soldier), (the text "00" is displayed over the button).
At any time, right clicking one time on the button displays the local Motion Scanner data, (the text "00" is displayed over the button).
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Left clicking on the bottom left green button allows to access directly the Minimap to have a better evaluation of the situation. All aliens detected by the Motion Scanner and the Remote Scanner Probes are shown on the Minimap. Close the Minimap screen comes back to the Motion Scanner screen.
Once the Motion Scanner is closed, all the spotted aliens by the Motion Scanner and all the Remote Scanner Probes are indicated by a 3D red box at there locations on the combat area for the whole turn duration.
Spotted XCom soldiers are also indicated if they do not move meantime.
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Clicking on the bottom right red button launches the 1978 Arcade game "Space Invaders" ...just kidding ;-) ...or perhaps as an easter egg by right clicking on the button...
So, left clicking on the bottom right red button selects the first blue flashing dot (just like to directly select a dot on the screen, and a red circle is displayed around the flashing blue dot, the top screen to the right displays the alien name (ex: Muton), and the bottom screen displays the Alien sprite), another left click selects the second blue flashing dot, etc.
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***** Added 06/23/2014 - Start
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Add an option that allow the Motion Scanner to display non moving units.
"Motion Scanner also detects and displays non moving units" - "YES" - "NO" - (default "NO")
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***** Added 06/23/2014 - End
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Cut from this thread on demand for better convenience:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2279.0 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2279.0)
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+1
some improvements to motion scanner are welcome
The best was the research tree allows new version of this item with more info
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I never any problems with positioning aliens, but some people complained about it, so why not.
And I really, really like the thrown scanner. It's a great tactical advantage and looks fun to use!
I also like race recognition, but I'm afraid it may take away some suspense, especially in terror missions (is it a civilian or an alien?). I think it can be remedied by adding a hearing aspect (like UNIMOD did for UFO:ET) with no scanner required, but it's too broad to explain here; I'll make a new thread. :)
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Like all of these ideas and especially probe system.
Available improvement : "Mind Probe Scanner" = Scanner + Mind Probe => switch on a button displays Mind Probe analysis (with a TU cost)
Sight of aliens will certainly have to be raised accordingly, because all of this could provide a big advantage to XCOM units.
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I like the idea of a combined mind-probe-motion-scanner-device
so, first of all, +1 for "3d red boxes on battlescape after having used motion scanner"
perhaps the "advanced motion scanner" (research available after mind probe is researched, scanner item is 2x2 and looks like motion scanner mounted on top of mind probe, with some additional wiring and stuff) could then differentiate between "alien" and "human" blips, or even indicate the race of the alien...
the "remote scanning probe" sounds like an interesting tactical option, true. the alien AI would definitely need to include "throw grenade at remote scanner", though ;)
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like a lot
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The Motion Scanner is an underrated equipment. It's powerful, but a real pain to use.
The player need to draw a diagram on a piece of paper and count the tiles on the combat zone.
No, not really. Never had to draw anything or count anything to get lots of value from the scanner.
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I prefer the scanner as it is, but I also think this is a good idea for those who don't. I wouldn't say you need pencil and paper to use the scanner, though.
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I once suggested an upgraded motion scanner with race recognition -- but you would have to do autopsies and interrogations first to build up a database of how humans move vs aliens before you could use that.
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While very interesting, most of your ideas fall into the "mod" section to me.
A slight improvement, still in the spirit of the vanilla game, could be to replace the motion scanner background with another grid :
(https://www.filterforge.com/filters/1750.jpg)
Also, an icon could be added somewhere on the screen allowing fast access to a scan result.
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@ MKSheppard
I once suggested an upgraded motion scanner with race recognition -- but you would have to do autopsies and interrogations first to build up a database of how humans move vs aliens before you could use that.
I also thought about something like that, but with the Hyperwave Decoder, the player already know the alien life form before the combat begin, and otherwise as soon as he see an alien during combat.
@ Qpoter
I prefer the scanner as it is, but I also think this is a good idea for those who don't. I wouldn't say you need pencil and paper to use the scanner, though.
Quoting myself:
"Divide your team in different squads; one squad with soldiers equipped with Flying Suits to enter the UFO on the top, by the hole made with a Blaster Launcher, to kill Alien Commanders and make panicking Alien Soldiers; one squad on the floor to enter by a door/hole; one squad on the floor to enter by another door/hole; one or two others squads to check the farms around; all squads equipped with Motion Scanners making use of them before moving then after moving, all in the same turn, and all of this in smoke from Smoke Grenades."
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I prefer the scanner as it is, but I also think this is a good idea for those who don't. I wouldn't say you need pencil and paper to use the scanner, though.
I understand how the scanner works, but I need pen and paper to make actual sense of what I'm looking at.
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One thing about the pencil and paper scanner - replicating the exact precision of aliens using pencil and paper to do planning would be unrealistic. Turns are pretty short and there's no time to make precise notes of where which aliens is and consulting it with terrain layout, especially from the first person perspective of the soldiers.
A general impression offered by the scanned display is probably the best that can be done in a such a short period of time. Especially that the aliens move around.
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I haven't used it since when.
But ain't the idea only to roughly show if there is nearby movement detected? I don't think it is supposed to be precise information that it gives you.
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@ Sturm
One thing about the pencil and paper scanner - replicating the exact precision of aliens using pencil and paper to do planning would be unrealistic.
It's a game, not reality. Chryssalid?!? Really!?!
Turns are pretty short and there's no time to make precise notes of where which aliens is and consulting it with terrain layout,
It's turn based, turn can be "infinite".
especially from the first person perspective of the soldiers.
It's a game. And not a FPS game.
@ Sturm, @ Muukalainen
You can use the Motion Scanner in different ways (assuming the Aliens have moved during their turn).
Examples :
1) You want to enter a UFO, check before moving inside. "Yes - No".
Are there Aliens inside the UFO?
--> Yes.
--> No.
2) You want to enter a UFO, check before moving inside. "Yes - No - How many".
--> Yes, 3 Aliens.
--> No.
3) There is smoke from Smoke Grenade, your Soldiers can only see 6 tiles away.
The Motion scanner detect 3 Aliens. You (as player) can not see the spotted Aliens on the screen. None of your Soldiers can see one of these Aliens (no red squares on the right side of the screen; no yellow 3D box ("there is someone here!") when you move the 3D box mouse cursor on the screen at the location detected by the scanner; no yellow cursor ("Fire" mouse cursor) when you move the "Fire" mouse cursor on the screen.
You want to fire at one Alien with an "one tile area" weapon (Laser Pistol, Heavy Plasma, whatever). So, you have no other choice that to count the tiles in this case, to fire precisely at the Alien location. Even worse if using multiple Motions Scanners at different locations on the map (the different location can even be close enough and the scanners readings overlap), before firing.
If the player want to use the Motion Scanner with all its possibilities, the way it has been implemented in original XCom is not sufficient.
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How does the motion scanner detect different levels? (I haven't used it much)
I feel like using the improved scanner with the red boxes would make the combo with smoke grenades OP. Maybe improving the interface of the scanner somehow would be better? Definitely, adding an IFF for X-Com soldiers (not civvies!) would be a good idea.
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@ El Yahpo
How does the motion scanner detect different levels? (I haven't used it much)
All levels are displayed at the same time.
Quite strange, I admit, but looking at all these unused buttons, the developpers certainly haven't had enough time/money to fully implement the Motion Scanner. :)
I feel like using the improved scanner with the red boxes would make the combo with smoke grenades OP.
It just displays directly the info from the Motion Scanner on the screen.
I you want to go the OP way, don't waste your time with all these different equipments; just use the Blaster Launcher as soon as you can.
Quite boring, yes, but hey, "I use it because I can" style gameplay. :D
Definitely, adding an IFF for X-Com soldiers (not civvies!) would be a good idea.
If done intelligently, all of this can be optional, so no worries.
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I see what you mean about the blaster launcher xD
However, this setup is useful from the get-go of the game. Also, it doesn't destroy all of your enemies loot!
Last night I also had some more ideas to increase the scanner's functionality.
1. It could be a portable ufopedia - This would allow you to look things up while in combat, like a researched alien's armor values and different weapon stats. IDK if that would actually be useful, but I thought I'd mention it. A problem though would be accessing all of that data with a low TU cost. Maybe adding a cost to open pages?
2. The scanner can give info on armors after research - sort of like the above idea, but it looks like it could fit nicely into the scanner's interface
These ideas aim to make the motion scanner something like the tricorder from star trek. Maybe the mind probe could be the upgraded version of this, and that could put red boxes on the screen.
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1. It could be a portable ufopedia - This would allow you to look things up while in combat, like a researched alien's armor values and different weapon stats. IDK if that would actually be useful, but I thought I'd mention it.
Oh yes, certainly. I've always wanted to be able to access Ufopaedia in battlescape, and this is a step in the right direction.
A problem though would be accessing all of that data with a low TU cost. Maybe adding a cost to open pages?
I think we can ignore this, I think actual in-game soldiers should know all that already anyway. This is more for the player's convenience.
2. The scanner can give info on armors after research - sort of like the above idea, but it looks like it could fit nicely into the scanner's interface
Sure.
These ideas aim to make the motion scanner something like the tricorder from star trek. Maybe the mind probe could be the upgraded version of this, and that could put red boxes on the screen.
I can't see how this would be harmful. :)
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These ideas aim to make the motion scanner something like the tricorder from star trek. Maybe the mind probe could be the upgraded version of this, and that could put red boxes on the screen.
Wait, giving the Mind Probe actual use aside from more money to hire scientists with?
Count me in!
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Feature with saving locations after motion scanner is already implemented in experimental forks, but never posted here for unknown reasons.
Just compiled that fork (https://github.com/redv/OpenXcom/tree/OpenXcomExtended_advanced_scanner)
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Well, if the boxes are used, I'd recommend using another color, than the red cursor-box. Helps to avoid confusing found aliens with the cursor-box. Is there a way for the engine, to give kind of »spotted alien«-status, but without making it visible, what race? Like, it's targetable (by psi, mind probe, normal weapon, etc.), but you can't see what alien type it is, right away, before using a mind probe/getting a visual? A combined version would then be an upgrade and give both items a real advantage. I rarely use mind probe or motion scanner, as they are just to expensive/rarely really useful, especially caused by the reasons mentiones in the first posting. When using the mind probe/advanced motion scanner, it's discovered entirely, but not the map tiles surrounding them (so not as if you were psi controlling it). This way you'd see an alien inside an ufo/house/whatever, where you haven't looked into. So everything surrounding it still is black, except for the alien. In this fashion, I can also imagine a kind of generic »blob«-like shape placed onto the map, instead of the boxes, when using the motion scanner. Maybe some sort of ellipsoid with a question mark on it, until using the mind probe? But I'd recommend not distinguishing aliens from civies, until using a mind probe or getting visual confirmation. Units already seen this round could be distinguished on the motion scanner, especially X-COM's units, which should always be known.
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Or can we keep the current Motion Scanner? You know, because using it is actually fun? :)
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Or can we keep the current Motion Scanner? You know, because using it is actually fun? :)
Speak for yourself. :-P I always found it as annoying as the OP does, that you more or less need to do a small drawing, in order to really use the positioning abilities of it. A little more useful game play on that behalf won't hurt, especially, when making it optional. =)
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I really do like the red-box idea for the motion scanner (as show in the original post) as that is just taking what the motion scanner is already doing and making it easier to read/use. But that's as far as I'd want to take it. The mind probe use/race detection is taking it a little far I think as Solarius Scorch said on the first page of this thread, it might take away some of the suspense of not knowing what is moving.
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The whole identification thing would be a very neat set of features to have, but for the baseline "motion"-"scanner" we definitely need those "motionscanned" identifier cubes.
Why? Because I can already fucking do it by using the motion scanner and pressing Prntscrn and then pasting the output somewhere so that I can look at it after pulling down the display without spending another 20 TU to take another look.
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Note, this change spoils completely the surprise of which level is the threat, and this is a huge advantage. It also filters out your own units, which means you don't have to care about who moves first. If there's no disadvantage to balance these, you're basically playing with x-ray vision.
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How I see the implementation.
1) You don't need a TU to see the display result, but you need spend a TU to rescan. May be technically complicated since we need to store a result for every motion scanner. Another solution - you don't need to spend a TU twice if you don't perform another action.
2) If you want a red boxes displayed on the map, spend TU to rescan and after that more TU for red boxes.
3) Mind probe that used blindly allows you to see the enemy movement in his turn, but don't reveals the map and don't reveals the race.
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I'd rather see an improvement of the existing display than a complete change of visualization.
I'm starting to feel irrelevant here, but I really like how the Motion Scanner works right now. People keep saying it's hard to read, but in my opinion the only trouble is that the scanner is oriented at 45 degrees compared to the battle view. That's the only problem, you need to learn to "tilt" your readout to match the battlescape. So maybe we could actually change the graphics by rotating it, then you'll know that stuff "two tiles up" will actually be two tiles up.
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In vanilla I never used them because initially for me is was hard to read. Laser rifle + smoke grenades works very well. I found motion scanner useful in hellrazor's hardmod expansion since that tool dramatically decreases my soldier losses before I lose a battle completely.
People keep saying it's hard to read, but in my opinion the only trouble is that the scanner is oriented at 45 degrees compared to the battle view
I read from scanner directly by titles using circles without imagination of 45 degree rotate. Just in battlescape you should find where the game count down, right, left and up from the scanner and that's all.
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I now use the scanner right, but as a kid I also wondered if I had to look in top-right direction or top-left direction - or even if I had to take the unit's own facing into account.
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I read from scanner directly by titles using circles without imagination of 45 degree rotate. Just in battlescape you should find where the game count down, right, left and up from the scanner and that's all.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
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Note, this change spoils completely the surprise of which level is the threat, and this is a huge advantage. It also filters out your own units, which means you don't have to care about who moves first. If there's no disadvantage to balance these, you're basically playing with x-ray vision.
This is a very good point. Maybe the red boxes would be OP unless it was just a straight line of red boxes from bottom floor to sky (like you see when you're viewing the highest level). And put red boxes on your units as well (if they moved). Might make the screen too busy though.
As is, I almost never use the motion scanner, but this thread is making me think maybe I should be.
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It's for close quarters that the scanner really shines : farm buildings, all UFOs, terror site buildings.
One guy runs against a wall and gives you a reading, then you know if the other guys at full TUs can enter through the door, and where the danger will be.
After you have scouted the inner walls, it's even better, because you can count the tiles and determine exactly which room is occupied.
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If someone interesting, I fixed (https://github.com/Xtendo-com/OpenXcom/commit/4403417635bcaeac17cc694a26464781708272e0) advanced scanner by redv (https://github.com/redv/OpenXcom/commit/892a3caace0fa8b17a1e8c8ea466acc0abeea87b), so advanced scanner don't spoils which level is the threat, but consume more CPU cycles to perform a check, may be optimized.
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Is it just me or does the box not fit in the third picture? It's in between four tiles.
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Is it just me or does the box not fit in the third picture? It's in between four tiles.
I increased a current floor and red box follows the floor. That don't reveals a current level of scanned unit since you can't actually detect the current floor of scanned enemy by watching a scanner display.
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Well, never mind. I realized just now, that this isn't the second floor in the picture, so it's normal. My mistake. ;-)
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Cool stuff! Merging that into my game! Very happy not to have to take screencaps/waste TUs rescanning because I have a goldfish memory anymore.
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Cool stuff! Merging that into my game! Very happy not to have to take screencaps/waste TUs rescanning because I have a goldfish memory anymore.
You can try (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4533.0.html). That build includes only latest openxcom nightly code, not openxcom extended.
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Yup, I went and got your code. Of course, it is not compatible with OXCE (I made patches, but they conflict a LOT). So I'll use the commit diffs to put it in. Should work!
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Took redv's idea and replaced cursor boxes with yellow arrows.
Also no spoiler of Z level.
Will be available in next OXCE+ version... displayed while holding ALT key.
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Took redv's idea and replaced cursor boxes with yellow arrows.
Also no spoiler of Z level.
Will be available in next OXCE+ version... displayed while holding ALT key.
You haven't pushed it yet? I'd like to play a bit with the code.
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love the advanced scanner guys- try to find out how to install it but no luck- anyone can help?
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my bad- I did not try the "displayed while holding ALT key"- Thanks guy it work like a charm- Now I can use MS for fun lol
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And I suggest something else - to allow in the scope of the scanner, when used, the detection of the enemy and the cancellation of any disguise.
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And I suggest something else - to allow in the scope of the scanner, when used, the detection of the enemy and the cancellation of any disguise.
Like the idea brother- A Mark 2 version of MS can be like that if it is doable- I almost never use MS before but this new feature give me a reason to use it lol