OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Offtopic => Topic started by: michal on July 12, 2011, 09:28:41 am
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Hello,
Do you like roguelikes? If so, you can find that interesting:
https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TYtkRRZTmmA/Thrb_w2LweI/AAAAAAAAABA/sYN99fQfjaA/s1600/day0.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_wDuv2I1RK0/ThrcF2ZkrXI/AAAAAAAAABM/JXuMLjXUOOo/s1600/night0.png)
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I guess the OpenXcom code could be modded to show ASCII instead of sprites - there you have you near-instant XCOMRL in a neat package ;)
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Particles in Ascii:
https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2011/08/console-sized-quantum-mechanics.html
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Dude, michal, are you my press agent or something? ;)
I guess the OpenXcom code could be modded to show ASCII instead of sprites - there you have you near-instant XCOMRL in a neat package ;)
True, but by the time I'm done with X@COM, it'll clearly have been much less work to write the entire game from scratch. A bit early to be using the word "done" in any kind of sentence related to my game's overall progress, but one can hope!
Getting everything to work in a console environment requires some significant changes on even the mechanics level (mostly in terms of coding, less so in terms of game rules). The interface is of course going to be completely reworked, and though you could theoretically do that as an OpenXcom mod, you'd then discover that it doesn't play very well because the mechanics were meant for an isometric game.
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Dude, michal, are you my press agent or something? ;)
He's everyone's press agent, if there's an X-Com project out there he will find it! :D
I guess the OpenXcom code could be modded to show ASCII instead of sprites - there you have you near-instant XCOMRL in a neat package ;)
True, but by the time I'm done with X@COM, it'll clearly have been much less work to write the entire game from scratch. A bit early to be using the word "done" in any kind of sentence related to my game's overall progress, but one can hope!
Getting everything to work in a console environment requires some significant changes on even the mechanics level (mostly in terms of coding, less so in terms of game rules). The interface is of course going to be completely reworked, and though you could theoretically do that as an OpenXcom mod, you'd then discover that it doesn't play very well because the mechanics were meant for an isometric game.
At least it would get rid of our graphical issues. :P
Good luck with your project! It looks very interesting so far.
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Dude, michal, are you my press agent or something? ;)
Hehe, i just think that people should know about interesting projects ;)
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Awesome particle system btw! I was "blown away" ;)
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Dude, michal, are you my press agent or something? ;)
He's everyone's press agent, if there's an X-Com project out there he will find it! :D
Yeah, I was going to make that comment myself but didn't remember 'til after I posted :)
I've seen michal all over the net associated with all manner of X-COM projects
At least it would get rid of our graphical issues. :P
You are far braver than I, SupSuper. Tackling all that pixel nonsense would drive me insane, especially using the original files. At least we all have UFOPAEDIA on our side! ;D
Awesome particle system btw! I was "blown away" ;)
Hm... "blown away" is hard to beat. I'm going to have to totally disintegrate you once I add sound. :D
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When we will see first release? ;)
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Good question... Um, tomorrow? ::)
...
Okay, maybe not (I wish). I was just pondering that very question yesterday...
Moving as fast as I can here (that much should be obvious!), but the first release is probably not coming until two major components are at least partially implemented: sound and interface. And I haven't started on either. Sound is easy, but it'll probably take several weeks to hammer out a full framework for the interface. I'm going to completely replace the temporary one I'm using at present.
It could be another few months yet. Even then, the first release is going to be more tech demo than anything, since it probably won't have any AI, geoscape, or full game data/maps etc.
I did just start two months ago ;)
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Ok, now we have first release :D
https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2011/09/arrp-alien-raid-resistance-party.html
Direct link: https://menzelphoto.com/josh/XCOMRL/demoDownload.php?fileName=XCOMRLv0.00.110918r1.rar
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Of course, michal beats me to it ;)
Decided to go for as early a release as possible, so I rushed the first tech demo for ARRP 2011 (a roguelike community thing, for those unfamiliar with the event). Lot's to do yet, but I figured the game may as well be out there since otherwise I'll probably just sit on it forever!
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I've played a bit, it looks really promising :)
Unfortunately aliens kicked my ass sooo much :P
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Heh, yeah, It's meant to be a challenge (essentially impossible in most cases), for the RL crowd. There are secrets that can make it easier, or at least more fun. Just a tech demo anyway, the actual game will play like X-COM rather than be a strange scenario with aliens teleporting in to defend their UFO ;)
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Will it have an ASCII Earth then? ;)
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The ASCIIest earth you've ever seen! 8)
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Going little offtopic - would it be nice if someone would make more classic roguelike (rpg rather strategy) based on x-com?
For example:
During cydonia mission everyone has died beside you. Your task is to survive and finish mission to save earth. You could descent into alien base (which could be quite deep - around 20 levels). You could find new weapons, new aliens (in deeper levels). Raise stats, etc. You could gain new psi powers (like spells in fantasy roguelikes).
Doom has been sucesfully converted into roguelike (https://doom.chaosforge.org/). I guess it would be possible to do the same with x-com. What do you think?
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Yeah, I was actually considering integrating something like that into X@COM, though that would certainly be much later, and it would essentially be a different game. A couple of ideas I came up with:
-It's a little ways into the war, more and more nations are turning to the alien side, and you play a lone soldier disgruntled with X-COM's ineffectiveness. You strike out on your own and play a more-or-less one-man roguelike adventure across earth as you find new tech, meet NPCs, and eventually find a way to get yourself to Cydonia itself and stop the alien menace. More overworld-oriented, except for bases which could be similar to dungeons. Would be an entirely different experience, but definitely fun ;)
-Much more closely integrated with the original: As commander you are an actual member of X-COM and if your location is discovered, you have to fight off the aliens in a different roguelike mode with soldiers assisting you. Easier to do, but still a separate game.
I had some others I can't recall. I'll stick with the original for now, though, because it's going to be pretty spiffy once I get the real interface running (haven't even started on that :-[).
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Third release is online: https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/p/files.html
Changes:
* NEW: Large units
* NEW: Strong units can smash through terrain
* NEW: Built-in weapon modules
* NEW: Melee attack with any item
* NEW: Bludgeoning melee attacks can knock target backward
* NEW: Change view floor with mouse wheel
* MOD: Wide/large doors open/close with a single action
* MOD: Backspace ends turn
* FIX: Unit light source deactivated on unconsciousness
* FIX: Firing at ground in unit's own position works properly for all projectiles
* FIX: Non-targeting LOF visualization checks weapon existence
* FIX: Save games no longer increase in size with each reload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0s3tduk3L8
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New release: R5
https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2011/12/r5-alpha-genesis.html
* TMP: New scenario: Exodus
* NEW: Full inventory access
* NEW: Remote detonation of explosives
* NEW: Random soldier names
* NEW: Alternate font (Ctrl-PgUp/PgDn)
* MOD: PORTED TO NEW ENGINE
* MOD: Path visualization colored by based on available TU/Stamina
* FIX: Rookie armor (coveralls) values properly applied
* FIX: Reaction fire TU checking issue which could cause fatal error
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Next time I'll save you the trouble and post it myself, Michal ;)
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No trouble at all ;) Btw, it's nice to see steady progress :)
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I know, you love doing it ;)
Steady, but somewhat slower than I'd like, unfortunately. Not enough time of late.
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I know, you love doing it ;)
Steady, but somewhat slower than I'd like, unfortunately. Not enough time of late.
I know what you mean, been feeling the same way lately. We just wanna get all these cool crazy ideas out RIGHT NOW. :P
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Yeah, but we all gotta make it to 1.0 first! (Well, at least I'm occasionally already fitting in some experimental features to play with, but it's still small-scale compared to what'll be possible later.)
How many hours do you spend on OpenXCom per week, SupSuper?
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FYI - Kyzrati has done great side roguelike project, named Cogmind:
https://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/
You are a prototype for a form of highly intelligent artificial life capable of quickly interfacing with and learning from the surrounding environment to evolve over time. You are the Cogmind. Build and rebuild yourself as you destroy or evade the Overmind's thralls to escape the subterranean robot city in this sci-fi dungeon romp (2012 7DRL).
You should try it if you like roguelikes.
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FYI - Kyzrati has done great side roguelike project, named Cogmind:
https://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/
You should try it if you like roguelikes.
Thanks michal, the final version of Cogmind came out last month, and I'm finally back to making some progress on X@COM.
R6 is out. (https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2012/01/r6-bleeping-good-time.html)
No new gameplay, but several visual improvements among other changes. Mostly wanted to get a new version of the demo available since it was gone for a little while there.
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7oiwcVrDvVI/UFIIUrajxII/AAAAAAAAAN8/NsY5L1iqfrk/s1600/arrp2012.png)
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Nice screenshot michal, where'd you get that?! ;)
On a side note: Strangely, the OpenXCom forum failed to notify me about your post in this thread--I just happened to come by today and saw it as I was browsing the forum normally... Wonder what's up with that? The forum/site been busy with all the recent X-COM hype on the web? Seems like the project has become a lot more popular lately, since I've also been getting more link hits from NineX than usual.
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Could be because 0.4 was released.
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Ya, I noticed, but that was a month ago.
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On a side note: Strangely, the OpenXCom forum failed to notify me about your post in this thread--I just happened to come by today and saw it as I was browsing the forum normally... Wonder what's up with that? The forum/site been busy with all the recent X-COM hype on the web? Seems like the project has become a lot more popular lately, since I've also been getting more link hits from NineX than usual.
I think it might also be an XCOM:EU "bystander effect" :) the forum activity for the new 2k/firaxis game has exploded since the game was shown on PAX east and announced for pre-order on steam, so perhaps some of the old fans who forgot about the game have woken up and started looking for the original again, finding us in the process :)
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Ah yes, that's what I was thinking, but haven't been following the new XCOM, so wasn't aware of anything specific that might've triggered the increase. PAX would do it.
Hey, their publicity is our publicity :D
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R7 (https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2012/09/r7-chryssalids-in-my-backyard.html) released.
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I've posted about R7 on OpenXcom blog. Check your stats ;)
Btw, what about Linux? You're considering it?
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Gee, thanks michal ;D
Actually, the fact that X@COM sits on the OpenXCom sidebar has always consistently driven a fair amount of traffic my way. A good number of visitors on your site apparently click down that list looking at other X-COM-related games--what a great idea to list them all there! Of course, a dedicated blog post has already given me three times as many forwards as usual in the past 6 hrs or so ;)
I do plan on releasing a Linux version some day, but it'll take a bit of doing since I'll have to recompile a bunch of different libraries (which generally makes me want to rip my hair out) and rewrite a bit of windows-only system code. So it's non-trivial despite the fact that the 99% of the code is cross-platform.
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I do plan on releasing a Linux version some day, but it'll take a bit of doing since I'll have to recompile a bunch of different libraries (which generally makes me want to rip my hair out) and rewrite a bit of windows-only system code. So it's non-trivial despite the fact that the 99% of the code is cross-platform.
Ha I know how that feels, everytime I even consider adding a library to OpenXcom it's a nightmare waiting to happen. :P At least in Linux you'll find packages reasdy-to-go for the popular libraries.
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Kyzrati, i had a chance to test new release for a while on windows. I must say i'm really impressed by your ascii design. UI looks great, colors are really good. Game of course is interesting too. I've also met some new alien :)
You should record some HD youtube video, many ppl could see how good it looks.
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Glad you like it michal--I was wondering if you've been playing, since I've never heard you comment on specifics even though you've always been quite an advocate for the game ;)
I do have a YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/Kyzrati) where I occasionally post videos, and I'm actually making a new video *right now* to show off all the latest UI features and current state of the game.
The existing UI is going to be improved so much in the future--I haven't even started dedicated UI work yet (getting closer to that dev branch, though)--so hopefully you'll like what it becomes even more!
Ha I know how that feels, everytime I even consider adding a library to OpenXcom it's a nightmare waiting to happen. :P At least in Linux you'll find packages reasdy-to-go for the popular libraries.
A nightmare I'm happy to stall on for as long as possible... By my estimates about 8-10% of X@COM players use Linux, though, so it'll probably be worth it eventually. I don't use a standard build system so getting libraries compatible with my games is doubly annoying. I've always enjoyed reinventing the wheel, anyway, so at least third-party library use is not too rampant :P
I do like the idea of Linux source packages being easy to acquire and deal with, but I have to become more proficient with Linux itself before I could do it without derailing the project out of shame =p
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Glad you like it michal--I was wondering if you've been playing, since I've never heard you comment on specifics even though you've always been quite an advocate for the game ;)
I could play more on linux ;)
Btw, have you ever thought about open sourcing x@com or at least your roguelike engine?
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I could play more on linux ;)
Hehe, You'll have your day then ;)
Btw, have you ever thought about open sourcing x@com or at least your roguelike engine?
Definitely, especially the engine. But I'm a somewhat obsessive perfectionist, and would never be able to do something like that unless I was convinced it was something that others could use without a lot of help and support on my end (it's not), so I don't think so.
Instead I want to make X@COM so moddable that others will be able to create completely different TBS games through a mod, which is pretty close to open sourcing, without the programmability (scripting instead). It'll include a hugely detailed manual on how to make all your own particle effects, objects, maps, entities, etc. Mostly because I'll need the manual for myself anyway to create the game, otherwise the project eventually gets so big I can't remember everything myself, anyway ;) So others can benefit from my horrible memory by having a great resource for making new versions of the game, and we can all benefit from playing them ;)
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Kyzraty, will you make it moddable at graphics renderer instead of text? Like number of graphics engines for dwarf fortress.
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Well, i guess 2d tiles should be possible:
https://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/2012/04/not-7up.html
Am i right, Kyzrati? Is it supported by your engine?
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Quite right. Tiles will be supported as in Cogmind (same engine), though no multi-colored tiles (meaning a single tile may not use more than one color, not that all tiles have to be the same color...). There will be sprite packs for the game; the characters used are just glyphs on a spritesheet, after all.
They'll be moddable, too, just like in Cogmind, so you could change the entire appearance of the game quite easily, assuming you can edit a .png file ;)
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So all tiles are one bit only and you're coloring them in engine?
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No multicolored tiles... bah, that's kinda gross. Why not? Dwarf Fortress have no problem with using nice multicolored tiles.
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Yep, colored in engine, so you can specify the color you want in the settings, or reuse the same tile in many places using multiple colors, without having to redraw it. The glyph files are monochromatic, but do allow alpha shading. I've attached one of the font files so you can see (they're all in the data/fonts directory)--all the map characters you find in the game is derived from that one .png (or one of the other fonts, depending on which you use).
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No multicolored tiles... bah, that's kinda gross. Why not? Dwarf Fortress have no problem with using nice multicolored tiles.
It's an aesthetic. Multi-colored tiles would ruin the old terminal feel, which I insist on keeping intact because without it, you may as well play the real X-COM, or eventually OpenXCom ;)
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Kyzrati, huh, I believe quite a HUGE difference will stay between xcom/openxcom and x@com with even colored tiles. Why wouldn't you let aesthetic be modded?
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True, I thought of that after I made the comment... In terms of mechanics, I am going to be pushing in a lot of different directions from the original. My bad.
I do, however, want to maintain the console/terminal aesthetic, as the style goes well with the theme I'll be working with, which isn't yet apparent to those watching the project because I haven't announced exactly what my final goal will be in this regard. It'll star to become more apparent around 0.2~0.3-ish.
I can also give a much better reason for the limitation: The entire engine is designed around the console terminal concept, whereby you have a character of a certain color over a cell of a certain background color. Why would I do this? I can animate hundreds of thousands of particles and cool effects very quickly, and do it all without the GPU. The spritesheet implementation means it's quite easy to add sprites instead of letters, but changing it to use a multi-color sprites turns it into a basic tiling engine, which loses the speed advantage and is no longer compatible with the particle layering which is going on in the background.
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Michal: I put up that new video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIVxa6xWGA) I was talking about (though having played, you've already seen most of what it contains).
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Video added to post on main site.
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Ah thanks, I don't even have it on my own site yet, ha ha. (Awaiting more content to put in the next post.)
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Posting about the new R8 release (https://xcomrl.blogspot.tw/2012/10/r8-you-added-what.html) so michal doesn't have to ;)
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Nice, so now we will see plenty of mods? ;)
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More in the future I'm sure, once the engine gets more powerful, but for now you'll definitely be seeing at least a few. Doom will be one of the first, I hear, with more to follow.
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Any ETA for linux version? ;)
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You asked that 10 posts ago ::)
Would putting it somewhere on the roadmap appease you for the time being? ;)
It does cross my mind occasionally... did just earlier today, in fact (no kidding!).
One day I will summon the courage to dive in, I promise.
However, I'm afraid that day will not be "soon."
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Hehe, yeah, but i wanted to know specific date ;) So probably not following weeks but maybe in couple of months it will be possible?
Until then i guess i need to try playing with wine sometime ;)
Changing a subject - asking just out of curiosity - why you decided to use plan text files for data? Why not xml, json, yaml or smth like that? Were there any particular reason?
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Yeah, it'll be months at the earliest probably. And that's just where I *try* it. I also have to actually get it to work ;)
About the text files, I don't like to be restricted by other formats, since writing your own format is always more flexible. No convenient tools for parsing, true, but I can write my own when necessary.
I'm also obsessive about proper formatting and making things look exactly the way I want them to, so I like the generally cleaner look of my own files (which are tab-delimited files, btw, easily imported into spreadsheet software for analysis).
Since I use notepad++ with my own syntax highlighting scheme (as you've seen), scripting is also fairly easy in text mode.
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Yeah, i love colors in your syntax highlighting ;)
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Me too ;)
I've spent years doing lots of custom syntax highlighting schemes for various editors, because I can't live without pretty colors telling me what everything is. How I used to code in a simple text editor back in the day beats me! (Actually, back then I had no idea what I was doing, so I guess it didn't matter =p)
And for further perusal, today someone else asked the *exact* same question as you on Bay 12. You can read here (https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=93822.msg3706321#msg3706321) for a more in-depth discussion of "why not yaml," and other data/scripting ideas.
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Me too ;)
I've spent years doing lots of custom syntax highlighting schemes for various editors, because I can't live without pretty colors telling me what everything is. How I used to code in a simple text editor back in the day beats me! (Actually, back then I had no idea what I was doing, so I guess it didn't matter =p)
And for further perusal, today someone else asked the *exact* same question as you on Bay 12. You can read here (https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=93822.msg3706321#msg3706321) for a more in-depth discussion of "why not yaml," and other data/scripting ideas.
Funny how Bay12 would bug you about the format when DF itself uses a custom format. Nice read though.
Personally I just direct all the "why not X" questions directly to Mr. Who Gives A Damn :P it keeps development flowing.
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Hehe, good point, he did mention later: "more like the DF raws actually, although that format is even stranger than yours :)"
Since this question will undoubtedly come up countless times in the future, I thought I'd write up the full answer in a convenient place I can point to if asked again ;p
I'll no doubt have to take a stance similar to your own about some aspects, at least once the project gains a bit more attention, otherwise I'll spend all my time answering these kinds of questions...
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I've spent years doing lots of custom syntax highlighting schemes for various editors, because I can't live without pretty colors telling me what everything is.
It's also visible in x@com - your color selection is really good :)
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Just uploaded something a little different: X-COM turned fantasy (https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2013/01/fantasy-x-com.html). Mostly a way to expand the engine and test out lots of crazy interactive possibilities. Later all this fun stuff can be applied to sci-fi/X-COM, both in the core game and through modding--no coding experience required!
On the sci-fi side, we already have a modder working on a WH40k version, too.
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I tried X@COM the other day, with the intentions of making a non-ascii graphic tileset. However, I couldn't get my tank off the skyranger ramp. I got frustrated and switched it off :(
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Ah yes, that gets a lot of people since the tutorial is in its infancy and the default mission starts you on level 2 (Skyranger). You have to switch to level 1 elevation if you want to move there. It'll be nicer once we've gotten beyond the simple UI, and have a tutorial intro to familiarize new players with how to use it.
A graphical tileset will be nice, though I haven't added official support for one yet, so anything done now would end up being extremely limited, merely replacing letters rather than assigning images to an arbitrary number of objects. At this stage that part of the game is not even as far along as Cogmind (for which tileset support took less than a day to add--for X@COM I have to wait until the full interface and data structure are in place :( ).
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You have to switch to level 1 elevation if you want to move there.
I'm pretty sure I tried that, though I can't be certain now. I'll try and pick it up again in the not too distant future :)
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Cool, it's mouse wheel, btw (or numpad +/-). It highlights the level you're currently viewing off to the right on the HUD, and if you're based on a level higher than 1, it's likely lots of areas will be shaded in blue because they're below your current elevation.
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New release (https://xcomrl.blogspot.com/2013/04/r9-sound-like-hero.html), X@COM now comes with sound effects! One of these days I'll catch up to OXC ;)
And pmprog, to avoid that issue with new players having trouble figuring out how to disembark, I recently made it so targeting the air for movement moves to the ground below that space--should have done that a while ago...
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Cheers. I'll check that out later :)