OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Offtopic => Topic started by: Quixote on January 24, 2014, 06:35:50 pm
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...that aliens will always come out if you wait till turn 20.
That took away a lot of the enjoyment of the game from me, because it's hard to justify the risk of storming the UFO when you know you could just line up a firing squad outside and wait for the reaction fire training.
Maybe we could make it a toggle to choose if aliens will automatically know where the humans are after turn 20? In that case, there would always be a couple of aliens left in the UFO, and you would have to take the chance.
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I storm the UFO anyway. Otherwise it'd feel like cheating.
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How did you find out? On the wiki?
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How did you find out? On the wiki?
Yes, I think so. Or by reading some posts here on the forum.
I used to play this game a lot on my friend's 386, and loved it. This remake is also great, but I feel I now know too much about the way the game really works, from reading online. Back in the day, most of the workings fo the game were shrouded in mystery, so we never really knew what could/would happen.
For example, we happily built a couple of missile defences each game, hoping some day they would get lucky and shoot down the attacking UFOs.
Often, stuff is better the less you know about how it's made... goes for movies too, I feel.
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I used to play this game a lot on my friend's 386, and loved it. This remake is also great, but I feel I now know too much about the way the game really works, from reading online. Back in the day, most of the workings fo the game were shrouded in mystery, so we never really knew what could/would happen.
For example, we happily built a couple of missile defences each game, hoping some day they would get lucky and shoot down the attacking UFOs.
Often, stuff is better the less you know about how it's made... goes for movies too, I feel.
Amen, brother. I couldn't say it any better.
For this reason, sometimes I wonder if the devs here shouldn't be more mysterious too... But I don't think it'd work nowadays.
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Oh yeah, stacking radars.....
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For this reason, sometimes I wonder if the devs here shouldn't be more mysterious too... But I don't think it'd work nowadays.
I agree it would not work. People always share info, and in a weak moment after some whisky one night I would cave in and go read all about the game.
But I think what could be done is to introduce more random elements into the game.
For example, make it so that sometimes the aliens will come out after 10 turns instead of 20. Or that sometimes, they will never come out.
And make it possible for missile defences to sometimes, just sometimes score a critical hit, driving off the UFO. Or make it so that all damage to UFOs mean a chance that some of the aliens inside will get killed or wounded..
Prevent the player from "running the numbers". There are many options :)
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Award more points for an alien killed inside the ship.
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...that aliens will always come out if you wait till turn 20.
That took away a lot of the enjoyment of the game from me, because it's hard to justify the risk of storming the UFO when you know you could just line up a firing squad outside and wait for the reaction fire training.
Maybe we could make it a toggle to choose if aliens will automatically know where the humans are after turn 20? In that case, there would always be a couple of aliens left in the UFO, and you would have to take the chance.
I'm not sure why you'd intentionally play in a way you don't enjoy. :P
The "turn 20 rush" is an intentional design feature to avoid the "dreaded alien closet" problem. It might seem "cheap" early game when you're just dealing with small UFOs, but that quickly subsides once you're dealing with multiple-entrance maps and much more stronger aliens with high reactions, so triggering a swarm of angry mutons and psi attacks is not in your best interest. Plus X-COM is not a "by the numbers" game, otherwise you'd always lose because numerically the aliens are always vastly better than you.
Amen, brother. I couldn't say it any better.
For this reason, sometimes I wonder if the devs here shouldn't be more mysterious too... But I don't think it'd work nowadays.
With a project like this it's impossible, as our community are mostly veterans that regularly challenge us on whether OpenXcom is "more accurate" or "less accurate" than the original, and we have to basically spell out every single mechanic to set the record straight (case in point :P). If you enjoy the mystery you should've kept playing the game instead of trying to learn more. ;)
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I'm not sure why you'd intentionally play in a way you don't enjoy. :P
Fair point, but I guess part of the fun of the game is also to try to figure out how to play it in the best way possible, taking less losses... it's just difficult to convince myself to go into the UFO when I know I don't have to.
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Frankly, I like Quixote's approach based on randomization. We can't avoid being exposed to information because we simply are in this community and want to remain here, so we can't isolate ourselves from knowledge. :) Making the game prevent us from "running the numbers" seems like the best option.
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Maybe UFO should take off if you dont destroy power source?
Another way is made alien more aggressive after some time, they could throw some grenades before leaving UFO :)
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How about this idea: Instead of aliens leaving the UFO after 20 turns, they should try to all get back inside.
When all aliens are inside, if there are no XCOM operatives inside as well, then the UFO will take off (if it has any intact power sources). The mission ends, you get points for all kills and artifacts recovered outside the craft.
If all power sources are destroyed, then aliens will try to get inside, then stay there to defend.
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I would actually prefer this as a player, since I could just storm the UFO and wait inside instead of hunting all the enemies hiding outside... Especially if we ever get bigger maps. Still, I think it'd be wicked.
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When all aliens are inside, if there are no XCOM operatives inside as well, then the UFO will take off
They get an early pass for Cydonia!
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They get an early pass for Cydonia!
And now, latest news: UFO hijacking! :D
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Well, to aliens, you're the alien.
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They get an early pass for Cydonia!
Message: "The UFO has taken off!"
A new map is loaded with stars in the background. All doors are sealed. Any troops that were outside when the UFO took off are no longer usable as you are now cruising through space. Only troops that were inside are now playable. It's your last chance to save your kidnapped soldiers, take control of the ship, and fly it back to earth! If you fail, you loose your UFO bound soldiers, and the mission is a failure. Maybe you can still keep any weapons/corpses that were left outside so your efforts and score are not completely a waste.
Perhaps this can be triggered on a battleship where only the commander/leader is left. After a certain number of turns. It would have to be a reasonable number to allow x-com operatives enough turns to enter a battleship if they already haven't and reach the hiding commander/leader. Lots of different variables for this type of scenario.
I better go now.. Before I think of any more ideas, like the UFO taking out half your ground squad with it's weapons as it takes off.. Making storming a UFO to secure everything more vitally important.... and terrifying.
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Message: "The UFO has taken off!"
A new map is loaded with stars in the background. All doors are sealed. Any troops that were outside when the UFO took off are no longer usable as you are now cruising through space. Only troops that were inside are now playable. It's your last chance to save your kidnapped soldiers, take control of the ship, and fly it back to earth!
Well, how would they know how to fly it back? Even if you had researched UFO navigation, your squaddies wouldn't necesarily have learned it, or it might not even be possible to control the spaceship without having the right Psi-abilities / mind vibrations.
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Well, how would they know how to fly it back? Even if you had researched UFO navigation, your squaddies wouldn't necesarily have learned it, or it might not even be possible to control the spaceship without having the right Psi-abilities / mind vibrations.
same way they did it in the Independence Day :P
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Well, how would they know how to fly it back? Even if you had researched UFO navigation, your squaddies wouldn't necesarily have learned it, or it might not even be possible to control the spaceship without having the right Psi-abilities / mind vibrations.
To answer your question, how would they know how to fly it back? The same way they already do. :)
UFO Navigation: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=UFO_Navigation
Alien craft use sophisticated computers to navigate on earth and through space. The system is based on optical processors arranged in network fashion. The control interface is relatively simple - the navigator controls the direction of gravity waves generated by the power source to move the craft in any direction. This system can be used easily by humans, and it can be reproduced using alien alloys and other components.
Currently if an Avenger lands on a landed UFO and completes a mission successfully, all UFO/mission items are immediately available in the store. So someone is flying or moving it back, at least as fast as the soldiers and aircraft/Avenger flies (which is very fast). I would imagine the soldiers have some sort of radio contact communication method to get instructions from base in how to fly and operate the UFO back to base. This same method can be used to fly the UFO back to Earth.
What I am thinking is that each soldier IS in constant communication with their home base. Actually you are the commander, and the tactical game screen itself is you being the commander viewing the battle scenario on a monitor. Your moves and actions are obviously you - the commander - giving orders to your units. This part is clear, and they would have the entire base's resources at their disposal. I imagine that higher rank soldiers within your squad will already be familiar with UFO Navigation and the recovery process. In Cydonia this also makes sense as we already have HyperWave decoder technology and it makes sense they would have instant communication (via "supre-dimensional wave which travels instantaneously"). This is also evident in the fact that we can control soldier orders and movements. If all soldiers die, you loose control and cannot issue any more orders because base communication is cut, and immediately view mission failure screen. This must be the process.
I was thinking about this yesterday, how would the soldiers know to fly the UFO back? Surely there definitely isn't a separate "recovery unit" being dispatched. This is definitely not the case because when completing a mission with an Avenger, all UFO items are immediately available. That would mean if there WERE a recovery unit, it would 1, require another Avenger, 2, fly faster than the returning Avenger craft.
This idea also does present one more issue. What about early in the game BEFORE UFO Navigation is researched and understood? How do those UFO's return back to base. Probably just simply being towed under the skyranger if it is small... Or some other unknown process/technology. Perhaps when a UFO takes off with units inside it, if this were to happen early in the game, you will only be able to recover your men and the mission if you have UFO Navigation researched.
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20 could be a random (evenly distributed) number between say 10 and 100. This sounds like a very minor change, the 20 turns could even be considered a bug, this way this change could even make it to 1.0 ;)
A more complex one could be sending alien reinforcements. A number of elite units could be dropped on the map from above. This could happen randomly before or after the aliens leave their ship but should not be something guaranteed. Or it could be coordinated so that it is not worth waiting for one wave to pass. This would surely be post-1.0 stuff.
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20 could be a random (evenly distributed) number between say 10 and 100. This sounds like a very minor change, the 20 turns could even be considered a bug, this way this change could even make it to 1.0 ;)
A more complex one could be sending alien reinforcements. A number of elite units could be dropped on the map from above. This could happen randomly before or after the aliens leave their ship but should not be something guaranteed. Or it could be coordinated so that it is not worth waiting for one wave to pass. This would surely be post-1.0 stuff.
About to finish the map finally when... "A UFO has landed near by" message (like base retaliation). A new swarm of aliens is spawned at the edge of map or somewhere. Hmm..
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Depending on how many aliens you're going against, just increase the turns as the alien numbers grow, so it's fair when you take your time and they all don't rush at you, and it should activate by the time you reach the last little alien.
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About to finish the map finally when... "A UFO has landed near by" message
dat plost twist! this should be really fun and challenging :o
plot twist of the plot twist: THE HORROR!,the new swarm are chryssalids ::)
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The way it works is that the X-COM units remaining on site ARE the recovery team. They are responsible for gathering artifacts, corpses, live aliens, and dismantling the UFO and its components after the mission has terminated. The actual UFO is NOT taken back to base, it is simply stripped of its components, including its hull, made from alien alloys.
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The way it works is that the X-COM units remaining on site ARE the recovery team. They are responsible for gathering artifacts, corpses, live aliens, and dismantling the UFO and its components after the mission has terminated. The actual UFO is NOT taken back to base, it is simply stripped of its components, including its hull, made from alien alloys.
We should be able to start dismantling while still in battle... XD
We could open up new entrances that way... ^^
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We should be able to start dismantling while still in battle... XD
We could open up new entrances that way... ^^
You would have to guard the guy with the power tools for say, 4 turns until the hole opens up, or something.
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You would have to guard the guy with the power tools for say, 4 turns until the hole opens up, or something.
I'd be happy to spend 40 turns on this if it worked.
Therefore, no.
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I'd be happy to spend 40 turns on this if it worked.
Therefore, no.
You can already blow open UFO's with a blaster launcher...
This way you can keep the alloys ^^
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You can already blow open UFO's with a blaster launcher...
This way you can keep the alloys ^^
When you have Blaster Launchers and Psi Amps, it not longer matters. :D
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I think high explosives also work... ^^
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I think high explosives also work... ^^
Not in the original game (except with XCOMUTIL). Not sure about Open X-Com, but it shouldn't be possible.
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Not in the original game (except with XCOMUTIL). Not sure about Open X-Com, but it shouldn't be possible.
I think it should... ^^
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I think it should... ^^
I have my doubts - these hulls take multiple hits from nuclear warheads and remain operational. :) With Elerium explosives like Blaster Bombs, sure; or perhaps small nuclear charges (or equivalents).
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I have my doubts - these hulls take multiple hits from nuclear warheads and remain operational. :) With Elerium explosives like Blaster Bombs, sure; or perhaps small nuclear charges (or equivalents).
like plasma torches... :D
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like plasma torches... :D
Yes, like plasma torches. :D