OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Open Feedback => Topic started by: Kain13 on October 22, 2013, 10:49:10 pm
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Who what thinking about this? Is it possible to fix it? I apologize if this topic has already been :)
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What limit?
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What?
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welcome to the forums.
That's actually kind of the whole point of OpenXCom, to remove limitations like that.
in the case of item limits... we never had one to begin with!
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What?
80-item Limit
When loading up your Avenger for a massive UFO assault or arming soldiers for a Base Defense from your overflowing stores, you will likely hit this limit.
You only get a max of 80 items, and you don't get to choose which ones, so you may end up with 80 clips and no rifles for the base defense.
The solution is timely housekeeping. Sell off your spare personal equipment. See our handy Spring Cleaning Tips, and also Managing the Item Limit for ideas.
Another bug concerning this limit happens when there are unresearched (alien) items in your stores during a base defense mission. Even though the item cannot be used during the mission, the game still allows you to equip your soldiers with them. This rarely happens as the alien items are very low on the item list, but if your base is lean and mean with under 80 items total, everything will spawn regardless of research. (c) UFOpaedia :)
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What?
reading up :)
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welcome to the forums.
That's actually kind of the whole point of OpenXCom, to remove limitations like that.
in the case of item limits... we never had one to begin with!
Thank you thank you ;) So remove the restriction is still possible?
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There is no 80-item-limit in openxcom.
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There is no 80-item-limit in openxcom.
I still have, I probably something wrong set :(
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It's not a setting IIRC.
Do you have a savegame that you could post?
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It's not a setting IIRC.
Do you have a savegame that you could post?
No, five minutes ago I deleted all, and is now trying to re-establish the correct :-X
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Are you playing XCOM or OpenXCOM?
https://openxcom.org/git_builds/openxcom_git_master_2013_10_23_0554.zip - OpenXCOM
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Installing_(OpenXcom) - How to install
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Are you playing XCOM or OpenXCOM?
https://openxcom.org/git_builds/openxcom_git_master_2013_10_23_0554.zip - OpenXCOM
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Installing_(OpenXcom) - How to install
OpenXCOM, now try X-COM: Extended :)
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There should be a limit, it makes for better strategy... Like in TTS it was raised to 110... ^^
You should really need to choose what items to keep/use and such. it adds strategy... :P
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There should be a limit, it makes for better strategy... Like in TTS it was raised to 110... ^^
You should really need to choose what items to keep/use and such. it adds strategy... :P
Nightmare for the lovers grenades :D :'(
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220 items on the ground, 10 soldiers with heavy plasma rifles and alien grenades, that's 250 items + whatever the aliens brought with them.
i get the impression you were still playing the original xcom. OpenXCom doesn't run through dosbox.
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There should be a limit, it makes for better strategy... Like in TTS it was raised to 110... ^^
You should really need to choose what items to keep/use and such. it adds strategy... :P
No.
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No.
LOL
you know, it might actually make sense to define a certain amount of "storage space" that a transport craft has, if only to define how much stuff that transport craft is capable of carrying back to the base.
but personal equipment shouldn't subtract from that space, since the soldier is carrying that on his body. and those transport craft are huge, if you think about it - it should never be a problem to pack a few crates of grenades extra.
so, item limit? no. :)
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What about still an 80 item limit, but everything a soldier carrying themselves will not add to that limit.
So you can pack all soldiers full of crap and still have 80 items to be just in the ship... ^^
How much more do you need? A soldier can only carry so much anyway.
Fully equip all soldiers and still have 80 items to spare...
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How much more do you need? A soldier can only carry so much anyway.
Exactly, so why bother implementing a limit? All a limit would do is limit gameplay. Why bother wasting time of somehow implementing some arbitrary limit (while somehow making it so soldiers don't count) of what you can bring when usually you don't even bother picking up anything from a skyranger once your in battle anyway.
Originally the limit was necessary simply because of limitations of computers and memory at the time, we don't have that now. It just detracts from gameplay and adds nothing but a failed sense of realism while requiring players to do even more micro-management for no gameplay value.
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Exactly, so why bother implementing a limit? All a limit would do is limit gameplay. Why bother wasting time of somehow implementing some arbitrary limit (while somehow making it so soldiers don't count) of what you can bring when usually you don't even bother picking up anything from a skyranger once your in battle anyway.
Originally the limit was necessary simply because of limitations of computers and memory at the time, we don't have that now. It just detracts from gameplay and adds nothing but a failed sense of realism while requiring players to do even more micro-management for no gameplay value.
+ Good words :)
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anyways, there is already a (rational) weight limit per soldier, and IMHO that is quite sufficient
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Exactly, so why bother implementing a limit? All a limit would do is limit gameplay. Why bother wasting time of somehow implementing some arbitrary limit (while somehow making it so soldiers don't count) of what you can bring when usually you don't even bother picking up anything from a skyranger once your in battle anyway.
Originally the limit was necessary simply because of limitations of computers and memory at the time, we don't have that now. It just detracts from gameplay and adds nothing but a failed sense of realism while requiring players to do even more micro-management for no gameplay value.
Okay, then make it so you can ONLY use a soldiers inventory...
Any more room in the plane is used for the loot you bring back home... ^^
Just like the 2012 Xcom ;)
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(https://cdn.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/svg/angry-desk-flip.svg)
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So is that a yes or no? XD
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So is that a yes or no? XD
I think Sharp is wondering why you would bother implementing such a silly system. The current system works fine and doesn't require much micromanagement. If you want more strategic choices for equipment, mod some of the weapons.
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I think Sharp is wondering why you would bother implementing such a silly system. The current system works fine and doesn't require much micromanagement. If you want more strategic choices for equipment, mod some of the weapons.
Thanks but I prefer my way... ^^
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Okay, then make it so you can ONLY use a soldiers inventory...
Any more room in the plane is used for the loot you bring back home... ^^
Just like the 2012 Xcom ;)
Yeah and if you end up with more equipment at the end of the mission than at the start you have to decide what to take back.
Or, even better combine/integrate soldier carrying capacity with weight/item count. If you want to bring these 5 unknown alien artefacts back that you don't have room for in the Skyranger storage, it's possible but one soldier may have to stay behind
If you want to bring the captured sectoid commander back to base, Jimmy rookie #14 will have to give up his seat
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As the man said upthread: no.
The 80-item limit is probably THE best thing to go and the first thing that DESERVED to go. Saying the game NEEDS an item limit? When taken to the extreme you get a game like Xcom 2012 where for each trooper you have to choose between carrying ONE grenade or having a scope on your weapon. Yeah, it makes for game strategy but it's absolute and intolerable bollocks.
If there's an item limit for the amount of gear that the AIRCRAFT can carry to a site then if soldier 'A' carries an additional electroflare then soldier 'B' has to give up one of his heavy rockets. And the item limit for a skyranger CANNOT sensibly be identical to the item limit for an avenger, because then you DO get asinine instances where the more men you take to a site the less gear they can carry. 80 items divided among 26 troops instead of 14 means that everyone is pretty much restricted to 1 weapon, 1 ammo for that weapon, and 1 grenade because the AIRCRAFT can't carry any more than that. No scanners, no medkits, no stunrods or stun launchers, no spare clips, no extra grenades and having to choose between smoke, regualar, alien, proximity, or HE for each because more is not allowed. And then when you replace 4 troops with 1 HWP then inexplicably all the troops can carry MORE STUFF defying all logic but certainly adding another tactical choice - using HWP's simply to be able to bring more gear.
The game always did have a useful and sensible limit to the amount of gear that a soldier can carry - strength. You give your heavy weapons to the soldiers who can physically handle the weight. You give your extra gear to the ones who CAN carry it and limit the amount of gear carried by those who can't because if overloaded they lose TU's. You don't need an artificial item limit on top of that for ANY strategic or tactical game reason other than to arbitrarily and needlessly frustrate the player who has enough concerns than overcoming deliberately non-realistic blocks in the name of "strategery!".
That same item limit applied to base defense missions too didn't it? Any arguments about simply not being able to fit it on the aircraft no longer apply. Worse, it forced you to use the first 80 items in the inventory list for the base and not even choosing the 80 items you would deem actually useful. Nothing so satisfying as having to defend your base with starter rifles and pistols against mutons because they are the first items in inventory despite having heavy plasma rifles that you take to every crash site.
The 80 item limit was not there because it made a lick of sense or because it was actually desired for some bent idea of "strategy". It was there because it was a programming limitation that in 1994 couldn't be overcome. IBM PC's were at the time still using the 486 - we didn't even have the Pentium processor yet. Memory capacity was still being measured in megabytes rather than gigabytes. Most games were still fitting onto one or two 3.5" floppy discs, and cd-rom games were mostly just ones like Myst that were built around graphics that would otherwise require dozens of floppies. We were still mucking about with autoexec.bat files in DOS in order to free up enough memory to even run games at all. We had to manually set IRQ's and other settings for peripherals like our sound cards because there was no such thing as plug-and-play. And if you hadn't bought a major brand like Soundblaster or Adlib for your sound card you might just be SOL for sound at all and make do with a few beeps and boops from the built-in speaker on your case. Not that it wasn't a crapshoot as to whether your combination of hardware would cooperate with any given game no matter what you'd bought because device drivers would simply conflict with each other anyway.
The 80-item limit was never included for purposes of being a strategic or tactical rule. Let it lie dead where it belonged in the first place.
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The 80-Item Limit's passing has not been (and shall not be) mourned.
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Okay you can have as much stuff s you want in the Skyranger, but the more things there are laying on the floor the higher the chance the aliens throw grenade or aim a Blasterbomb into there... :P
It would make sense as they would want to cut Xcom's supply line... ;)
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Okay you can have as much stuff s you want in the Skyranger, but the more things there are laying on the floor the higher the chance the aliens throw grenade or aim a Blasterbomb into there... :P
It would make sense as they would want to cut Xcom's supply line... ;)
Has any of you ever seen this happen?
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No, but I did accidentally shoot an explosive round at the exit of the skyranger : My soldiers were unharmed thanks to power armors, but the "store" tile was obliterated.
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Has any of you ever seen this happen?
I have had Blaster bombs directed into a half full Skyranger (half my troopers were still inside)... :(
Well in the original... XD
Or an alien grenade right at the entrance...
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Has any of you ever seen this happen?
yes. this is the reason the AI was disallowed from using explosives on the first turn.
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yes. this is the reason the AI was disallowed from using explosives on the first turn.
Why, though? It was the only reason you would want to disembark from the ship immediately upon arrival despite the reaction fire. The tactic to skip the first turn was not always the safest one.
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Why, though? It was the only reason you would want to disembark from the ship immediately upon arrival despite the reaction fire.
Not quite. (https://www.twitch.tv/halman_sa/c/3107557) :P
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Why, though? It was the only reason you would want to disembark from the ship immediately upon arrival despite the reaction fire. The tactic to skip the first turn was not always the safest one.
Doing this on SuperHuman is quite dangerous. Especially on Terror/Battleship missions. I've had instances where I've had 4 even more aliens in the surrounding landing zone. That would be a sure fire way to have all my men fall to an alien grenade, or worse a blaster bomb.
My strategy lately has been to first throw a smoke grenade outside, then wait a turn, scout the immediate area with a plasma hovertank, then proceed (carefully) outside.. Also because the units can only make it so far outside the aircraft, they usually need another turn to get into proper positions. That -- or risk getting shot down by any aliens that may be near by.. *shudder*
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Hey Warboy, when are you gonna add the option for us to decide how far the Aliens will face the Skyranger upon landing? I found the original thread talking about it, but it's too old to revive and I don't want trouble :)
I really love the idea and hope you give us more options on this. I don't like if it only depends on the difficulty. Please :)))))
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Doing this on SuperHuman is quite dangerous. Especially on Terror/Battleship missions. I've had instances where I've had 4 even more aliens in the surrounding landing zone. That would be a sure fire way to have all my men fall to an alien grenade, or worse a blaster bomb.
In the UNIMOD (an extensive mod for UFO: Extraterrestrials, that makes this game not only playable but actually very fun), there is a simple solution: on turn 1, aliens have a random number of TU spent. This means that even if you leave your landing craft straight away, chances are the aliens won't react. This is to simulate how the game works on later turns, and while simplistic, this solution is effective and IMHO better than the vanilla, which gives aliens an unfair advantage.
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on turn 1, aliens have a random number of TU spent
that is actually a very simple yet clever way of making things more "realistic". also, it's very much in the vein of the original game design: randomize as much as possible, so the game mechanics appear more clever than they actually are ;)
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that is actually a very simple yet clever way of making things more "realistic". also, it's very much in the vein of the original game design: randomize as much as possible, so the game mechanics appear more clever than they actually are ;)
Precisely. ;)
It's clever and it works. I love this simple mechanism.
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[Using King Leonides Voice] This is XCOM! [/Using King Leonides Voice]
Think like an alien. Its night time. You came to earth to pickup a few things. You came strapped with your best Plasma weapons and a pair of shades. You are doing your business, raping, pillaging and what not when...lo an behold you hear something! Its loud! Its kicking up dust and sand. Civilians are crying out "Thank the Lord!" You look up in the sky and you see this hulking Russian made VTOL with massive engines coming down. You have a bad feeling about this...and you haven't had dinner yet.
What do you do?
A. Continue pillaging at random
B. Take a smoke break
C. Load a fresh clop and get in position to ambush the intruder like you get paid to do it!
Its XCOM. Its D-Day. It Normandy beach. When the transport doors open, its all hell, plasma bolts, and gritted teeth...no roses.
Hell, I'm sort of pissed to know that aliens can't use explosives on round 1. I guess because their is zero defense against Blast Launchers, but still...
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to counter this argument... think like a human military strategist: if you are trying to land a strike team, what do you do to "soften" the LZ? right. ANYTHING.
that would include strafe-bombing the designated landing spot, perhaps dropping a few grenades while descending, and using vehicle-mounted machine guns to mow down anything that moves before the ramp even opens.
since we don't get anything like that, we have to even the odds somehow, and including randomized TUs to account for aliens trying to take cover from "landing zone softening measures" sounds like a good idea to me ;)
don't think of it as "aliens are ignoring the landing transport" but rather as "aliens are partially distracted by other measures taken by the landing troopers that we cannot possibly show in the game"
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I get what you are saying Black, but then again, why don't they continue this tactics in turn 2 onwards? If you wait them out, they'll abandon it and start wandering around. It's like an "empty" turn for me on most occasions.
Still, kudos for your explanation. :D
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Aliens not too far from the Skyranger will be facing you with plasma weapons aimed at the doors. Aliens further away will ignore the Skyranger and continue on with the mission.
I like the random TU idea to balance things out. I'm also as gung-ho about this as Blacklibrary is, so give us options, I want to experience both ways. As the Xenonauts creator said, Aliens are tougher and better than your operatives, but you outnumber the aliens in every mission, so you can lose a couple of men and women but still win by the numbers. So I also want D-Day scenarios in my X-COM with 100% TUs, once in awhile.
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Would be interesting if the TUs were tied to the total rank of officers present. Beat the aliens value (Soliders, leaders, and commanders count) and you get vantage. Miss it, and they get vantage.
Alien vantage: Full TUs.
XCOM vantage: Randomized TUs in order of magnitude to the difference between Alien command rank value and XCOM command rank value.
Adds an interesting layer to the game as an -option-. Makes having ranks on a skyranger matter other than a morale risk if killed. More over, if you pull of a XCOM Basij (i.e. an officer and 10 rookies), you cede vantage to the enemy. A dead rookie barely scratches morale though like seeing the XCOM commander go down in round 1 of battlescape.
(Basij is the milia army of the Iranians. They were known during their early days to be used as fodder to throw down the enemies mouth to keep him occupied. Boys and old men sent out to find mines or take out enemy positions by hurling themselves at the objective till they ran out of bullets and time...each wearing a plastic key to "heaven". But I digress.)