OpenXcom Forum
Contributions => Offtopic => Topic started by: luke83 on July 25, 2011, 10:50:20 am
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Hello,
Exactly how are maps generated in X-com. Is there a pre-existing list of buildings that just gets placed in different locations to define a map? Is this something that can be extracted from the original game so people could try to make MORE different types?
Please forgive my ignorance as im new to open source and modding in general but this project really excites me :o
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https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=MAPS
As for creating new maps for OpenXcom, i guess that someone will make easier format for that.
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Besides "maps" (which are just map blocks of 10x10 or 20x20 tiles) there are different types of terrain. Each type of terrain built by different algorithms. Most of them are pretty straight (random blocks), but some of them, such as alien base and terror mission site - quite complicated. I'd say the most complex is terror mission - it has set of rules of "town" building, like roads, crossings, buildings. Alien Base is like xcom base (which is quite easy to "render"), but with preliminary generation of base structure (also some rules applied).
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There are already map packs and a great map editor, which works with openxcom as good as it worked with the original game. Which is the advantage of being able to handle old file formats.
If we would use a new format, unfortunatly a new map editor has to be written before anyone would be able to make new maps...
There are a few rules, but not many. Roads have to be constructed in a logical way. And there has to be space on the map to land a plane and a UFO on it (they never crash on buildings or trees, but always on grass or flat ground). Bases are constructed according to their lay out.
In TFTD there are a few more rules on the sites like islands, ships and harbors.
But how these rules will be implemented is not yet decided. Making them external would indeed make it more flexible for mods...
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Dailky , Do you have any suggestions for good map editors?
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There's only one that I know of: Daishiva's mapview:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xcmapedit/files/
(download the Release.zip) (requires .NET)
Or you can download the sourcecode and compile it - that worked fine for me.
It isn't actively developed anymore, but if we would have bugfixes or enhancements to be implemented - I guess it could be picked up again, either by daishiva - but more likely by one of us, I would just need to ask him for write access to that repository.
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If we would use a new format, unfortunatly a new map editor has to be written before anyone would be able to make new maps...
Maybe not: https://www.mapeditor.org/ it probably would require writing input/output plugins .
It isn't actively developed anymore, but if we would have bugfixes or enhancements to be implemented - I guess it could be picked up again, either by daishiva - but more likely by one of us, I would just need to ask him for write access to that repository.
Why not fork it on github?
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"maybe not: https://www.mapeditor.org/ it probably would require writing input/output plugins ."
Is anyone even thinking this far ahead yet? If there is plans to do this later? Maybe i could start looking into this "TILED" to see if i can make heads and tails of it as i would like to do something to take my mind off some family problems :( Be warned i have no previous experience with anything like this i just want to try :)
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Is anyone even thinking this far ahead yet?
Yes, but not offcially :p
I'm not sure how that general map editor is going to work with the PCK format and the palettes and stuff...
Also I don't immediatly see a way to create AI path nodes (which is all nicely implemented in Daishiva's editor)
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Finally got Daishivas map view working ( i had the wrong dot.net installed) now just got to work out How to use it. Anyone know of a How to guide for this software?
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I can write a quick how-to guide:
(assuming you already got the correct path settings all set)
In the main screen "Map Editor", you can browse the different maps.
First you make a backup of the MAP file (in the MAPS subfolder if your game) that you want to change.
Click the map you want to change, don't look at the RMPview for now, first we use the TopView and TileView.
In the topview click the cell you want to change. Then click either ground, West, North or Content. Then in the TileView screen, click the corresponding tab with either ground, walls or objects. Then right-click on the sprite you want to place there.
Repeat this for all cells you want to change. Et voila - your map is done.
Now go to the RMP view. This is a bit harder to understand, because it's more behind the scenes stuff.
Ideally, you don't have to edit this. But you might want to check if the nodes are not in places where they cause an issue if a unit would spawn there. (for example on an object)
If that is the case, then you first rightclick on a cell, this will add spawnpoint/patrol-node. Then you fill-in all the data of the original node to this new one, setting by setting. Then you delete the old node.
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For some reason the first couple of UFO cause the software to crash , i haven't modded anything yet , Have you guys seen this error before?
https://postimage.org/image/88w2qtvo/91648bb9/
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Also whilst im looking for good modding tools , How can i extract the alien images into something like GIMP and make changes pixel by pixel to save back?
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For some reason the first couple of UFO cause the software to crash , i haven't modded anything yet , Have you guys seen this error before?
https://postimage.org/image/88w2qtvo/91648bb9/
The first UFO entries are bugged leftovers in the game files, just don't click on them and you'll be fine. :P
Also whilst im looking for good modding tools , How can i extract the alien images into something like GIMP and make changes pixel by pixel to save back?
The XCSuite (https://sourceforge.net/projects/xcmapedit/files/old_files/XCSuite/) available on the same site lets you extract Xcom images.
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On Daishivas map view , when i remove a previously placed object from a tile , it still leaves the GREEN triangle there, judging by How the other Green triangles are paced it appears that this means it blocked can some confirm there coloured triangles meaning and also How do i remove the green ones?
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Never mind i should of just looked for the erase icon sooner ;D
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OK i finally got some time to play around with this tool , must say its a pretty slow process to start with but the results so far are pretty cool ( well i think they are ;) ) . Still i have lots of unanswered questions like , since this UFO i started with only had 2 levels, will the game automatically give my design a roof OR is there some way i can add a additional level so i can add a roof. Will version 1 of open x-com have multiply UFOs as a way of spicing up the original game ( without changing it) ? Also still not 100% on how to set the green unit spawn block ( if that is what they really are)?
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hi luke, the game will not automatically add a roof. I think you should be able to change the map dimensions somewhere (which includes the number of levels).
Normally openxcom version 1 you will be able to add your own custom mapblocks, for both terrain and ufo's.
(it's the famous "external rulesets").
This gave me the idea to have the ability of assigning more than one ufo design for the same type of UFO, the game will then randomly choose one of the designs.
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"This gave me the idea to have the ability of assigning more than one ufo design for the same type of UFO, the game will then randomly choose one of the designs."
This is exactly what i was thinking , i just cant remember if each ufo size got recorded into the ufopedia ( with a graphical image) or not that was my main concern with this option. Lets face it there s nothing worse then exploring the same ufo 20 times before they final start flying around with the bigger ships. This in itself would keep every battle interesting.
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This is exactly what i was thinking , i just cant remember if each ufo size got recorded into the ufopedia ( with a graphical image) or not that was my main concern with this option.
Well, the ufopaedia indeed gives an indication of the dimensions (height,width) of the UFOs: https://www.xcomufo.com/x1ufopaedia/ufos.html
You clearly see how many levels and the width in the number of tiles.
So mainly changing the inside and just doing small changes to the outside is a good idea if you want to stay true to the ufopaedia.
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I knew i had seen this information somehere before :)
I think a combination approach here would be nice a few different shapes for each class of ships and a few different interiors for each shape.
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New questions, does anyone know HOW to use images from other items EG: add alien base items to UFOs ?
So far i am not seeing any options to change the map height for individual UFOs OR buildings.
Also . can anyone else get XCsuit to work i cant see how to start it, im not sure if i downloaded the correct file?
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New questions, does anyone know HOW to use images from other items EG: add alien base items to UFOs ?
If you are modifying them to be in the original game, you cant. Do you only want to see the new tiles in the map editor?
Also . can anyone else get XCsuit to work i cant see how to start it, im not sure if i downloaded the correct file?
All the 'suite' executable does is provide a launchpad for all the other programs. There is no difference in running it vs the editor executable directly.
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Hello DaiShiva , thank you for your help. To your answer to my first question , Why? Is the a link you can provide to find out what is and is not possible when modding for the original game ? Although i plan to use my mods in OpenX not the original Dos version i have i would still like to keep things compatible if i can.
I have also been modding some units and In your program i can select EDIT on a image, i can select my new colour out of the colour pallet but i cant Draw the new pixel onto the image, Am i doing something wrong OR did development stop prior to that?
Also the "SHOW BYTES" option when modding units. I tried to change the code for some colours via a find and replace option but i cant see any way to Save this BYTE information back to your program. Is this type of modding possible?
Really looking forward to your answers :)
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Hello DaiShiva , thank you for your help. To your answer to my first question , Why? Is the a link you can provide to find out what is and is not possible when modding for the original game ? Although i plan to use my mods in OpenX not the original Dos version i have i would still like to keep things compatible if i can.
There is a hardcoded list of images that make up the list of tiles that a map can utilize. In the original version, this list is compiled into the executable somewhere. There is a text file that the map editor generates that contains this list list of images, so technically you can hand modify it, but then your maps will only be good for viewing.
I have also been modding some units and In your program i can select EDIT on a image, i can select my new colour out of the colour pallet but i cant Draw the new pixel onto the image, Am i doing something wrong OR did development stop prior to that?
Also the "SHOW BYTES" option when modding units. I tried to change the code for some colours via a find and replace option but i cant see any way to Save this BYTE information back to your program. Is this type of modding possible?
Really looking forward to your answers :)
Yup, that was the work on a rudimentary pixel editor so you wouldnt have to export and re-import your images for minor edits. That part is not done
the bytes window was primarily for debugging. Making sure that what I drew onscreen matched up with what the original encoding said it should look like. That window is read-only. How did you do a find and replace? Paste into notepad?
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Thanks for the quick reply .
The find and replace was done via Ultraedit , but yes notepad would of done the same job.
Since your still active in the community , does that mean that development on this awesome tool may start again?
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Im hoping someone knows the existing file systems as i have a question...
I was just looking at the X-com base models and they appear to be kept in the .pck file. IF i want to add a new building type can i add a new one to the existing PCK file OR is it better to make a copy of the xcom units and modify pre existing templates? Also if i do the second method Can we mix and match between PCK methods if we need to ( Basically currently i only want to modify 1 building and i don't want it to replace any existing one)?
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Since your still active in the community , does that mean that development on this awesome tool may start again?
Anything's possible. The tool would need active users however.
Im hoping someone knows the existing file systems as i have a question...
I was just looking at the X-com base models and they appear to be kept in the .pck file. IF i want to add a new building type can i add a new one to the existing PCK file OR is it better to make a copy of the xcom units and modify pre existing templates? Also if i do the second method Can we mix and match between PCK methods if we need to ( Basically currently i only want to modify 1 building and i don't want it to replace any existing one)?
If you want to see your changes immediately, I would modify existing buildings and not add new images to the pck file.
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I use Mapview almost every day :) Especially when I want to find out something about the MCD of a specific object. Or the routes/spawn points is also great for debugging alien movement.
Because I'm using the MCD window alot, one feature request may be to have a slightly more user friendly MCD window - it's also different to the other windows as it seems to disappear often and I have to find it back again :)
And something that would be totally awesome is that you can edit and save the MCD data, not sure how hard that is.
I would say I'd program it myself, but I'm kinda busy with openxcom right now :)
Don't want to push you or anything, but I read you need active users, I'm certainly one of them.
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Since your still active in the community , does that mean that development on this awesome tool may start again?
Anything's possible. The tool would need active users however.
Depends if OpenXcom will attract a modding community. It sure would make my job easier if people just stuck to X-Com formats with your tools, though I'm sure most yearn for fancy 32-bit PNGs or something. :P
Personally I use them everytime I need to peek into the game resources to find what graphics are stored where to use in the game.
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In the beginning I was the end user because I had ambitions to do what openxcom is doing now - write my own xcom engine. So yeah, the modding community of openxcom is the target audience for my tools =)
Alright so since there are users, how would you like to be notified of new changes and what is your preferred method of getting a new version? svn up and rebuilding? Downloading a zip file and extracting to a new folder? One of the things I was working on there at the end was an auto-updator (I think this is the way to go).
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Tonight i created a NEW item for x-com base maps . I added it to the PCK file via but when i load up the map editor it doesnt show up in the list,
Is it only possible to REPLACE existing items OR is there a way i can add this extra items to the game so this software will recognise it?
I would like to add new details not just swap existing data :-\
"It sure would make my job easier if people just stuck to X-Com formats with your tools, though I'm sure most yearn for fancy 32-bit PNGs or something. " SUPSUPER.
I would be very happy to stick to this format i just need to know How to add more items, change the number of levels on building and UFO and other Useful information like that. Can i modify this information in code somewhere?
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Adding images to the PCK file does not make a new tile show up in the map editor.
The MCD file determines what tiles can be placed into a map (A tile can be made up of 4 images)
Adding a new entry to an existing MCD file has the possibility of messing up every map that uses it because of the way the map file is structured - again, the list of files used in the creation of a map is hardcoded, so adding one tile to one of these files has the possibility of shifting all subsequent tile indexes down by one.
For example
Lets say you want to add a new tile to U_WALL02. This is used by the Alien Base tileset. The file list of the Alien Base is U_BASE U_WALL02 U_PODS BRAIN
Adding a new tile will shift all the U_PODS and BRAIN indexes that the map uses down by one, thus making the endgame boss look really strange.
This is not to say that you cannot create new tiles, just that all of the above needs to be taken into consideration when doing so
One of the requests is for a MCD editor. This would allow you to make new tiles to be used in a map. This is the main barrier holding you back.
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but this is problem of original UFO, not openXcom :D
Daiky could probably do something that allow easier doing that.
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Its true, a new map format could be devised to fix all these issues
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Sounds like i need a new map format :(
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Yes and no
You can make new tiles if you add them to the END of the tile list. If/When I made a tile editor, the program can enforce this for you.
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OpenXcom currently works with the battlescape savegame already in a format where every of the 4 objects on a tile has two references: a mapdatasetID and a mapdataID. That last one is an ID within the mapdataset. This way you can add objects to any dataset you want without breaking the map itself.
- position: [44, 0, 0]
mapDataID: [21, -1, 7, -1]
mapDataSetID: [2, -1, 3, -1]
smoke: 0
fire: 0
discovered: [false, false, false]
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There is several things i want to do for my version of OpenXcom ( all of which i plan to make available for anyone that is interested) Here is a quick list of my goals
1: Human helpers on earth ( My Red Coat gang) To be use in Upper level of Alien base defence and Special Terrorist missions . DONE
2: Civilian sprites that can hold weapons
3: Training Room for xcom agents using simular rules to X-com apocalypse
4: Sectoid human hybrids ( enemy version and x-com version) HArd to get the right look
5: Alien reproduction item , that can be recovered in mission ( can be used to quickly heal you units when returning to base OR breed our own Sectoid/human hybrid) Half done
6: Egg sacks for Snakeman to lay ( use as Spawn point during special missions) HOLD
7: New ufo layouts for variety
8: New Terrain versions of existing types for more variety ( New expanded Urban maps almost finished V1.0 )
This is why i ask so many questions , i know im in over my head as i have a very basic understanding of computer programming but little by little things will make more sense.
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In the beginning I was the end user because I had ambitions to do what openxcom is doing now - write my own xcom engine. So yeah, the modding community of openxcom is the target audience for my tools =)
Alright so since there are users, how would you like to be notified of new changes and what is your preferred method of getting a new version? svn up and rebuilding? Downloading a zip file and extracting to a new folder? One of the things I was working on there at the end was an auto-updator (I think this is the way to go).
Personally I don't mind either way, but if you're gonna be doing a lot of updates, auto-updater is probably the way to go.
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I have a new question about the map view program. It lets me change the block size and height of a map rather easily but the graphical display does not zoom out to handle the new size ( Please see image)
Does anyone know how to fix this?
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Never mind, i found it i save it then re-open the program it updates automatically ;)
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I was just playing around and was wanting to see if i could replace the default farm building with my new test one, The problem i have had is i have done 3 battles in openxcom and still i have not seen this building used? All i did was replace the old file from MAPS with my new version, i just thought i would ask if this is correct before i spend another 10 missions hoping the block gets used ::)
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OK still have not got my map to show but since adding it i have started getting a error message at random just as i arrive at the crash site before the game closes . I will assume this is a result of my test farm :P I am going to guess that openX is not up to this yet.
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luke83, I think this is because you increased the size of the map, while the size of the map in openxcom ruleset is defined as 10x10. (every CULTAxxx.MAP is defined in the ruleset as 10x10 map).
You can not edit the ruleset yet, so I suggest trying to replace a map with one of the same size for now ;)
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Thanks Daiky i will give that a try tonight. I assumed that since i found another map this size that i could simply change this farm one to suit also. From what i found last night most squares are either 10x10 10x20 or 20x20 so i thought i would use the biggest one 8)
The other part of my test was to mix and match different objects together to see if they worked, Thus my farm had city stuff in it. Im still trying to find how to use Mapview to its full potential. For example does anyone know if its possible to create new block ( is this the correct term for a separate map set)? Currently the farm list 1-18, it would be great if i could simply add some more BLANK ones and just keep making them as currently i made a backup of the originals then proceeded to destroy the originals with my TESTS .
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bumber i just did a quick test on a same size farm building - i added a stove and a kitchen bench to the room but ended up in game with a door that does not work and half a staircase :(
Is this because your not finished or because the game was never meant to be used this way? It showed up correctly in the MAPVIEW but in game is wrong.
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Yep, same issue. It's in the rulesets defined which tilesets to load... I could provide you with an openxcom version with externalized rulesets, but that would not be fair, me taking away SupSuper's work :p
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Those pesky Rulesets again, looks like i need to sit on my hands again at least for now. ::)
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You can always make new maps, you just have to be patient to actually use them in game. Or change maps with slight variations, without changing tilesets or dimensions.
Be careful that maps always must come with their proper waypoint data (.RMP files).
Fun fact: did you know they had a tileset in mind which was never released? It was called "shack", which would probably be used in combination with "forest", like "barn" is used in combination with "farm". I found a reference to a "shack" tileset in the beta exe.
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Got a error in Mapview when i try to add new maps from AREA51's Urban Maps . It works if i rename the file to a original Maps name but when there numbered as per Area51 site i get this error in Map_View. Does this mean anything to anyone ?
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Ok been building my own little army base for a new mission type out of existing images ( just mixing and matching as my understanding was When OpenX is complete we will be able to specify what map blocks are in use) . Created a Barracks for the men to sleep, Saved the file but re-opened it and all my double bunks ( from X-com BAES BLOCKS) had switched to something broken and some Meat on shelves ( i think that is what it is). I hoping someone knows IS this just a graphical error in Mapview OR is something confused because i have added 2 items that should never mix?
Does anyone know Where Dashiva Hangs online as i would love to here from Him ::)
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Looks good, nicely done =)
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Wow, so I can make my own unique maps and put them in XCOM?? Is it easy to make them? I have no experience in coding, I would just like to drag and drop tiles, etc,! Im so excited now! Im still playing XCOM so I think its time to make new maps!
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Once i get the kids to Bed , i will give you some advice , whilst you wait check out my mod site :)
https://openxcommods.weebly.com/
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Wow, your mods are looking great! Your "Terror Site replacement ( Openxcom version of xcom1)" looks finished so I'll try that one. This is exciting, thanks Luke!
Can I use these with X-COM CE? I'm using the UFOExtender too. I haven't used the OpenXcom files yet ^_^ and I have questions about that too, but i'll ask later. Also I need help on where to put your files to make them work for my current game save.
Thanks Luke, you made my day!
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I don't think they will work on the the original game as there are software limitations preventing the amount of New items i have added into the game. The Upside to openxcom is flexibility for modders , the downside is its still in development.
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Guys, you know OpenXcom have wiki? https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=OpenXcom
It would be great if you could fill some information about modding maps ( if you will have time for that of course ; )
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I would write something up but my grammar is never correct so i would not want to add it to a WIKI :P
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I know its not in the wiki but i have made some note on my site, there not finished but they give a general overview if you have never modded anything before .
https://openxcommods.weebly.com/how-to.html
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Thanks. I know it's not possible in original X-COM but I wish we can have 3 different kinds of Terror site maps for each individual city in the world, that would be great! Each city with a unique cultural background. I got back into X-COM with the Extender and now I'm even more excited to play because of the dawn city maps! They're very hard, so don't ask me how I did ^_^;;
Can anyone recommend anymore cool maps for other terrains, specifically for the Farm map since those are very common, I'd like a change ;)