OpenXcom Forum

OpenXcom => Open Feedback => Topic started by: KingMob4313 on June 23, 2014, 04:34:03 am

Title: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on June 23, 2014, 04:34:03 am
Hello,

I read that many of the bugs from the original Xcom are fixed in this version.

Does that include the weird behavior of fire in the game?
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Falko on June 23, 2014, 04:55:21 am
this here?:
Quote
Funky Fire

If a unit (alien or friendly) is on fire or standing in flames, an Incendiary explosion anywhere else on the map will do a small amount of damage to it, even if you just shoot an IC round at a random patch of ground.

Similarly, if a unit (friendly units only) is standing in smoke when an incendiary explodes, it will take stun damage. This makes the combination of incendiary munitions and smoke quite hazardous until such time as all troops are armored.

There is a working hypothesis for The cause of this bug is that each and every Incendiary explosion triggers the "Smoke and Fire" routine: applying fire damage, applying stun damage from smoke, calculating fire and smoke spreading, and "catch on fire" checks for units in fire.

Note that X-Com units wearing any kind of armor are immune to fire damage and IC-induced stun damage. Xcom HWPs are immune to stun, but take 40% damage from Incendiaries and WILL get killed quite efficiently by funky fire.
(from https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Known_Bugs#Funky_Fire)
i would be really surprised if this is in openxcom
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Warboy1982 on June 23, 2014, 05:29:46 am
nope, no funky fire.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on June 24, 2014, 03:28:01 am
nope, no funky fire.

So how does fire work, exactly?
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Warboy1982 on June 24, 2014, 03:31:29 am
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Incendiary#Damage (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Incendiary#Damage)
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on June 24, 2014, 05:04:01 am
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Incendiary#Damage (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Incendiary#Damage)

I was about to grump on this post, but I see that Zombie has done a ton of research on the subject since the funky fire bug was fixed.  Very interesting, and I would assume that the fire is emulated in the same way as the original game once the funk was patched?  Awesome.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Sturm on June 28, 2014, 04:30:26 pm
this here?: (from https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Known_Bugs#Funky_Fire)
i would be really surprised if this is in openxcom
I always thought it simulates getting suffocated by smoke and isn't a bug.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: yrizoud on June 28, 2014, 07:24:11 pm
Smoke still give a bit of stun damage, but only once by turn. The funkyfire bug made hit suffocate people additionally every time a fire bullet explodes anywhere.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: kharille on June 28, 2014, 07:43:50 pm
Just a thought, shouldn't fire do hits on an unconscious alien or xcom operative?
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on June 28, 2014, 09:03:52 pm
Smoke still give a bit of stun damage, but only once by turn. The funkyfire bug made hit suffocate people additionally every time a fire bullet explodes anywhere.

Yep, you could stun whole batches of aliens, at least, until you ran out of smoke tiles.

Honestly, the incendiary rounds should do some more damage over being on fire. Being on fire and being covered in napalm, or more likely: thermite / white phosphorus are very different things.

Maybe something to play around with when I get my code base standing up.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Sturm on June 29, 2014, 12:17:14 am
Smoke still give a bit of stun damage, but only once by turn. The funkyfire bug made hit suffocate people additionally every time a fire bullet explodes anywhere.
Wow, how weird :D . I never noticed it :D .
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 18, 2014, 06:35:09 pm
Wow, how weird :D . I never noticed it :D .

You could do all sorts of insanity, like throw a smoke grenade into a ufo, then have 2-3 soldiers outside open up full auto with incendiary autocannons and stun the crap out of everything in the UFO.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: LeBashar on August 18, 2014, 10:48:14 pm
Quote
Honestly, the incendiary rounds should do some more damage over being on fire. Being on fire and being covered in napalm, or more likely: thermite / white phosphorus are very different things.

I have suggested something similar with an additionnal hit damage for incendiary ammo. With it we could make a blast radius for the fire+damage over the time, but also a hit damage which can be as powerful as AP or anything else. For now the "power" does not change the small amount of damage done. It could be interesting to separate the DoT effect of the weapon initial hit.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 18, 2014, 11:32:13 pm
I have suggested something similar with an additionnal hit damage for incendiary ammo. With it we could make a blast radius for the fire+damage over the time, but also a hit damage which can be as powerful as AP or anything else. For now the "power" does not change the small amount of damage done. It could be interesting to separate the DoT effect of the weapon initial hit.

I have buffed the explosion damage in a personal build, but I am still testing it.  Originally the code does between 5-10 damage or so.  I have it doing between weaponPower/4, with weapon power randomness already determined.  So a 70 damage incendiary rocket does between 35 and 0 damage on an explosion with default damage generation (200%-0%).

But I'd love to code up a 'melting' state that burns for 1-3 rounds, like being on fire, but does a certain portion of the weapon's power as DOT.  I haven't had a chance to implement it yet.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: yrizoud on August 19, 2014, 02:32:51 pm
I just read that fire damage doesn't affect morale. I'd rather like if it was the opposite : catching fire would be a good reason to drop your weapon and freeze in terror or run in random direction.
(This applies well to civilians and xcom soldiers, of course)
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 22, 2014, 12:05:00 am
I just read that fire damage doesn't affect morale. I'd rather like if it was the opposite : catching fire would be a good reason to drop your weapon and freeze in terror or run in random direction.
(This applies well to civilians and xcom soldiers, of course)

Hell yes.

This is a good indicator of a game's mechanics quality: whether burning people lose their shit (good) or continue shooting you back as normal (which makes fire weapons almost useless).
It's not remotely as clear-cut with tactical games, but I'd like to see some additional effects.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: LeBashar on August 22, 2014, 01:50:43 am
+1

being in fire should be a good reason to panic, but this effect should be function of the damage modifier IC, because there is no point to be scared by fire if you are immune.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Dioxine on August 24, 2014, 11:49:03 pm
I'm championing the idea of fire causing instant panic for quite a time here. After all, I can't see a man being on fire able to do anything else.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 24, 2014, 11:51:29 pm
"Manuel Alcala is flailing about and screaming"
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: BlackLibrary on August 26, 2014, 05:57:07 am
I'm championing the idea of fire causing instant panic for quite a time here. After all, I can't see a man being on fire able to do anything else.

Only if putting out the fire was an option some how. 
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: LeBashar on August 26, 2014, 12:27:56 pm
You can vanish fire with explosion of smoke (but I don't now if it work on soldier in fire ?)
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 26, 2014, 02:05:53 pm
Remember: DUCK AND COVER! :)

Seriously though, stunning a soldier stops the fire. So remember, if you see someone on fire, zap them with electricity!
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: moriarty on August 26, 2014, 02:29:31 pm
"I'm on fire! Taze me, bro!"
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 26, 2014, 04:03:10 pm
"I'm on fire! Taze me, bro!"

(https://img.sadistic.pl/pics/731760ae11a5.jpg)
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Dioxine on August 26, 2014, 08:19:50 pm
Just don't wake them back up until in the safety of the base! The fire demon stirs awake as well!
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 26, 2014, 08:22:20 pm
While we were in the code, could set up the med kit to put out fires.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Dioxine on August 26, 2014, 09:36:19 pm
That'd be... really weird. Useful but too weird... I'd rather have an extinguisher or nothing at all :)
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: KingMob4313 on August 26, 2014, 11:45:11 pm
An FPS had that mechanic, but yeah just a fire extinguisher would work.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: BlackLibrary on September 01, 2014, 05:50:33 pm
MYTHS vs FACTS in XCOM
---------------------------------------------------
If someone is set on fire, they take no fatal wounds...they take burn damage each round.  Therefore the healing kit does not aid them (healing kit only heals fatal wounds), and stunning them only stuns them while they still take burn damage each round.  If they burn to death, msgbox is returned with something like "Jack Smak has died from fatal wounds".  Its -actually- the wrong message.  They don't have any fatal wounds.  They burned to death (which one can argue is a fatal wound, I suppose.  :) )

I've tazed a guy on fire and watched him die 3 rounds later from burn damage though he had no fatal wounds, and nothing that can be healed.

Also...the other myth:  Smoke does not extinguish a unit set on fire.  Smoke doesn't put out fires at all in XCOM.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 01, 2014, 06:05:42 pm
I've tazed a guy on fire and watched him die 3 rounds later from burn damage though he had no fatal wounds, and nothing that can be healed.

Happened the same to me recently. I guess I was wrong all along...

We seriously need some 'duck and cover' mechanics. :)

Also...the other myth:  Smoke does not extinguish a unit set on fire.  Smoke doesn't put out fires at all in XCOM.

Then we're toast... *ba-dum-tsss!*
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: LeBashar on September 01, 2014, 06:57:00 pm
Quote
Also...the other myth:  Smoke does not extinguish a unit set on fire.  Smoke doesn't put out fires at all in XCOM.

Smoke really replace fire on tiles, it's work for me. But it don't extinguish the fire on any unit.
Title: Re: Question about fire.
Post by: nullzero on September 07, 2014, 02:03:01 am
An FPS had that mechanic, but yeah just a fire extinguisher would work.

Time Splitters 2?