OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Suggestions => Topic started by: moriarty on October 16, 2013, 02:29:20 pm
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I was wondering: how hard would it be to have x-com bases that have sizes other than 6x6 small facilities?
I mean, other than the problem of actually displaying them in the basescape view, is it possible at all? restricting the game to a base of 4x4 (two hangars plus seven facilities or one hangar plus eleven facilities) or even 3x3 (one hangar plus four facilities) to make the game harder might be fun. or a modded game where you only have one base, but that base has 12x12 facility spaces?
is there any part of the base layout that is still so hardcoded that this would be completely impossible?
another interesting thing would be bases with other shapes (3x5? 2x8?) or spaces that cannot be built on... like in apoc. is there any easy way to make this possible? maybe it would be possible for "scenario"-type savegames to create a "facility" (named "rock" :) ) that does not need to be connected to the access lift and can only be placed or destroyed in debug mode? this would make it possible to reduce the available space :)
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graphics aside, this would be simple to pull off code-wise.
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Maybe cheaper initial base cost, as you have less space.
Listening posts don't need much space ^^
Or bigger more expensive ones for large manufacturing facilities...
Maybe add 2x2 or even bigger workshops that work more efficient, reducing costs and needing less raw materials... =3
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You can already have n-sized facilities.
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You can already have n-sized facilities.
oooh, I'm going to add a 6x6 facility giving you all you ever wished for, which you'll never be able to build - just to annoy the hell out of people ;D ;D
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In theory this idea sounds really awesome, making the base smaller as an additional difficulty
As for larger than default bases, I'm not sure what you'd use the extra space for. I can fit pretty much everything into the starting base, my additional bases are radar/interceptor outposts
Larger bases would make sense if you guys (or modders) are planning to add more buildings/facilities?
A single large base with lots of winding corridors would be great for alien infiltration/base invasions
Also, has anybody suggested multi-level bases? I don't remember which remake featured this. Make use of the additional floors (currently base only has 2?), use elevators and stairs/central lift shaft to get between them. Could 2 maps be superimposed in base view? Eg a 1 and 2 button to switch between them
If you allowed moriarty's single large base idea, could the additional base slots in base view (where you can move between base-1 and base-2) be used to represent different floors of the same base? In essence hack it so all the different bases are actually the 'same' base, in the same location, sharing/pooling the same research/manufacturing/storage capability, and using a single multi-level battlescape when under attack
^ not sure if that's clear
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multi-level bases were a TFTD thing, i think they had 4 or 5 floors
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multi-level bases were a TFTD thing, i think they had 4 or 5 floors
What? In the unmodded game?
I don't remember that
It turns out it is the new Firaxis game (which I haven't played) which has this, saw it in a gameplay video
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What? In the unmodded game?
I don't remember that
He means in the Battlescape, base facilities were 4-levels tall: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Sub_Pen
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Yeah, they were 4 levels high.
An improper base layout could result in a very long base defence mission. It would have been easier to sacrifice an Leviathan (no lose it, but unable to use it while being repaired) than to face a wrong-layout base defence mission.
(I could not believe how easier the terror sites and base defence missions were for UFO compared with TFTD - I've played TFTD first)
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If you allowed moriarty's single large base idea, could the additional base slots in base view (where you can move between base-1 and base-2) be used to represent different floors of the same base? In essence hack it so all the different bases are actually the 'same' base, in the same location, sharing/pooling the same research/manufacturing/storage capability, and using a single multi-level battlescape when under attack
I think this is a great idea, but it would be very difficult for base defense missions, don't you think? If you want it to be a multi-stage mission (like TFTD's alien bases), that would probably be possible, but where would you start? sure, the aliens will come down from the top level, but they would probably move down the main lift rather quickly, so you would basically be fighting on all levels simultaneously...
of course, it would be interesting to start on the bottom level with only some of your soldiers, then once you cleared that, you will join the soldiers one level above that who until then were holding the aliens off (a.k.a. nobody died, perhaps some wounded on both sides), and you have to fight your way to the top level. kinda complicated, truly epic-scale if done right, but then again, in this kind of game it would be your only base, so that would suit the situation just fine, I guess :)
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Well, you don't have to build your lower level around the main lift. You could instead use additional lifts/staircases (which would be a new type of facility, present on both levels) to move up and down, and place these away from lifts/hangars.
Anyway, there is no need to add another base layer unless we have more facilities to build (maybe a hospital ward, a training facility other than Psi Lab, a cyber enhancement facility etc.). Which I totally support.
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You can already have n-sized facilities.
Could you elaborate? Where is this defined?
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Any time this topic comes up, I remember this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2558.msg29870.html). It had so much potential. That plus ruleset support to restrict base number and size would give us everything needed for any 2D base craziness. I personally like the 2D bases better than 3D (easier to see it all at once and digging wider should be easier than deeper), with the one exception of having a surface layer (where aliens can spawn anywhere) and an underground one (where they are restricted to one entry point).
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I personally like the 2D bases better than 3D (easier to see it all at once and digging wider should be easier than deeper), with the one exception of having a surface layer (where aliens can spawn anywhere) and an underground one (where they are restricted to one entry point).
This, so much. :)
But it'd require some sort of toggle to switch between upper and lower parts of the base.
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Any time this topic comes up, I remember this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2558.msg29870.html). It had so much potential. That plus ruleset support to restrict base number and size would give us everything needed for any 2D base craziness. I personally like the 2D bases better than 3D (easier to see it all at once and digging wider should be easier than deeper), with the one exception of having a surface layer (where aliens can spawn anywhere) and an underground one (where they are restricted to one entry point).
So, according to this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2558.msg29870.html) discussion, options to mod number of bases and size of bases do not exists, because modders and players couldn't handle the freedom? :o
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So, according to this discussion, options to mod number of bases and size of bases do not exists, because modders and players couldn't handle the freedom? :o
No one was interested enough to implement that feature and then fix bugs you can introduce later. For me that is a big change since you can easily explode entire game to desktop with hard to diagnose bugs.
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Well, it is a big change but the guy did say that he would stick around and debug it. Now he's not around anymore.. but we still have his branch, I think, and maybe other programmers who would be interested in implementing it.
I think he just came up with his suggestion too early in the openxcom project, when there wasn't many active forks of the master (like oxce and oxce+ and now xtendo's oxce+adv) and people were mostly concerned with getting a remake of the original rat her than all the total conversions we see.
Nowadays, I think we can find a fork where it would fit, if someone wants to take it on.
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No one was interested enough to implement that feature and then fix bugs you can introduce later. For me that is a big change since you can easily explode entire game to desktop with hard to diagnose bugs.
Well, it is a big change but the guy did say that he would stick around and debug it. Now he's not around anymore.. but we still have his branch, I think, and maybe other programmers who would be interested in implementing it.
I think he just came up with his suggestion too early in the openxcom project, when there wasn't many active forks of the master (like oxce and oxce+ and now xtendo's oxce+adv) and people were mostly concerned with getting a remake of the original rat her than all the total conversions we see.
Nowadays, I think we can find a fork where it would fit, if someone wants to take it on.
Okay, thanks to you both, I do understand know what happend then.
For some reason, I thought it was already implemented...
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It was implemented in Fenyő's fork of the code, yes, which might still be on GitHub. It was not integrated in the OpenXCom master code, or any other fork that I know of. It did work at the time but I don't know if it still would work, since the code has changed a lot.
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For some reason, I thought it was already implemented...
Yes, but not with latest nightly, not a ruleset and not tested enough. I mostly wounder about geoscape to battlescape translation with different size of x-com base. I don't know if currently code is flexible enough to use different size or it was hardly intended to use default vanilla size, so different size may introduce invisible for a first time bugs.
For example, when I enabled manual abandoned experiment like manual control of civilians, I introduced different bugs like no morale losses for civilian, you can open inventory and put a gun that looks weird for civilian, no TU and energy restoration for manual controlled civilian after a turn, you can't save civilian by aborting mission even when he stands on exit zone, civilian can restore a morale when alien kills your soldier and etc. Just because it was not intended to use initially like that way.
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when I enabled manual abandoned experiment like manual control of civilians, I introduced different bugs like no morale losses for civilian, you can open inventory and put a gun that looks weird for civilian
Ooh, I wondered why had taken care about this. In fact vanilla Openxcom already lets you MC civilians, so I didn't double-check for possible bugs when you control them.
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Ooh, I wondered why had taken care about this. In fact vanilla Openxcom already lets you MC civilians, so I didn't double-check for possible bugs when you control them.
Mostly because you don't care about civilians. Also because you can't do anything but stun civilian like brainless animal. That looks too silly for me. I found your code and it was an inspiration for some experiments that should make civilians less useless.
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Code aside, vanilla civilians have simplified spritesheets, so they can't hold anything properly. But it's easily remedied by making/adapting full sprites; Hobbes and Dioxine both made such civilians.