OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom => Suggestions => Topic started by: Man in the Funny Hat on August 02, 2013, 06:49:52 pm
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So, as it is when you end a mission all the surviving loot from that mission is instantly available in your base inventory. Instead, it should all be added as materials IN TRANSIT being transferred to the base, probably with some appreciable delay since one does not disassemble and ship all the alloys from a battleship faster than the skyranger can fly the troops back home.
This also brings to mind the issue of exceeding base storage limits. It happens because all the weapons and elerium and alloys from sites are instantly added to base inventory. What I'm thinking is that there should be some manner of penalty for exceeding base storage limits. Since all that STUFF has to be put somewhere then it has to reduce your living quarters capacity and your efficiency at doing research and manufacturing since the bunkrooms, labs and workshops are then being used to store it all.
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Also if you take a UFO intact and did all the research on the parts.
You should be able to fly it home... XD
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yep, the stuff should be transferred in another manner. I've suggested this myself (more than once, I'd like to think)... but it appears that this is actually a lot more complex than you would believe.
although, come to think of it, the "transfer" mechanic could simply be used... the loot would simply be added as if it was being transfered from another base... transfer time would be calculated by distance to the receiving base, just like in a regular transfer... @warboy, do you think this would be possible? it would make a lot of sense.
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I think of it as pre-orders rather than the stuff being physically present already.
Also if you take a UFO intact and did all the research on the parts.
You should be able to fly it home... XD
I dunno, might not be possible for humans to interface with them, or perhaps they require a fingerprint scan etc. Otherwise we'd be flying around in Battleships.
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I think of it as pre-orders rather than the stuff being physically present already.
yeah, except that you can use them, like equipping soldiers with it in a base defense, or if you have a second transport... putting the items in "transfer" would make the most sense IMHO.
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I am sure we have had this discussion before, to be fair, it was linked to making the Skyranger stay on site for a certain amount of time to gather the goods, thus allowing the aliens to perform more tactics like attacking our troops on the land whilst they gather the UFO parts and trying to intercept our ships.....
I wonder if i can find that old suggestion post, i think it was Daiky that was against the idea....
UPDATE:
Here it is https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,487.0.html
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Well at the very least it would make sense to just keep a buffer of items to be added to the relevant base upon the skyranger's return.
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I am sure we have had this discussion before, to be fair, it was linked to making the Skyranger stay on site for a certain amount of time to gather the goods, thus allowing the aliens to perform more tactics like attacking our troops on the land whilst they gather the UFO parts and trying to intercept our ships.....
I wonder if i can find that old suggestion post, i think it was Daiky that was against the idea....
UPDATE:
Here it is https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,487.0.html
to be hones, I think Daiky was right at that point, because the mechanic I was suggesting was way too complicated. but making it a "transfer" should be easy enough, I think - it doesn't make sense that the skyranger transports all the stuff, and the delayed arrival implies that there is some kind of mop-up operation going on behind the scenes without actually bothering the player.
actually, what I'd really like to see is transfers being visible on the geoscape, it would make the globe a little more busy - imagine little dots (of a distinct color, so they can't be confused with xcom or alien craft) buzzing back and forth between your bases, or traveling to your base from somewhere else for stuff you buy... apocalypse had that, with its sophisticated economy model. buy stuff from marsec, and a transport starts at the marsec headquarter and travels to your base... it would make it easier to estimate arrival times, too - just watch the dot... :)
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I dunno, might not be possible for humans to interface with them, or perhaps they require a fingerprint scan etc. Otherwise we'd be flying around in Battleships.
Mindcontrol the last alien and have them fly it... ^^
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to be hones, I think Daiky was right at that point, because the mechanic I was suggesting was way too complicated. but making it a "transfer" should be easy enough, I think - it doesn't make sense that the skyranger transports all the stuff, and the delayed arrival implies that there is some kind of mop-up operation going on behind the scenes without actually bothering the player.
actually, what I'd really like to see is transfers being visible on the geoscape, it would make the globe a little more busy - imagine little dots (of a distinct color, so they can't be confused with xcom or alien craft) buzzing back and forth between your bases, or traveling to your base from somewhere else for stuff you buy... apocalypse had that, with its sophisticated economy model. buy stuff from marsec, and a transport starts at the marsec headquarter and travels to your base... it would make it easier to estimate arrival times, too - just watch the dot... :)
Could also make for some cool geoscape changes like have air superiority missions that can shoot down your transported/recovered goods. :)
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to be hones, I think Daiky was right at that point, because the mechanic I was suggesting was way too complicated. but making it a "transfer" should be easy enough, I think - it doesn't make sense that the skyranger transports all the stuff, and the delayed arrival implies that there is some kind of mop-up operation going on behind the scenes without actually bothering the player.
actually, what I'd really like to see is transfers being visible on the geoscape, it would make the globe a little more busy - imagine little dots (of a distinct color, so they can't be confused with xcom or alien craft) buzzing back and forth between your bases, or traveling to your base from somewhere else for stuff you buy... apocalypse had that, with its sophisticated economy model. buy stuff from marsec, and a transport starts at the marsec headquarter and travels to your base... it would make it easier to estimate arrival times, too - just watch the dot... :)
I still think it would be worth investigating, we just need to work out what can and cant be done and find a programmer who is willing :P
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Though to begin with a you could have a 2nd much slower moving dot on the geoscape (after your returning Skyranger), travelling from the crash/landing site to your base.
Which would be the UFO parts travelling to your base. ^^
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I think everyone is on a similar path with this idea.
However adding a whole new transport ship will become tedious for the player, i think it should be done automatically by the system, I like the idea of showing a new blip on the map.
Items carried by the soldiers will be counted for immediate research, renaming item will be picked up by the clean-up crew.
Something like this could work, to get the player more involved.
Once a mission is completed, a cleanup crew is sent to salvage the remain, (optional: the clean up crew could consist of lets say 5 scientist and 5 engineers, with maybe 4 soldiers for defense)
The transport will appear on the globe and will need an escort. as they could be attacked by retaliating aliens. (which creates the possibility of a new mission)
Clean-up time varies depending on the size of the ship (obviously smaller ships will be faster)
after transport on base arrives then all items will be transferred to base.
The player can buy and upgrade transport ships and assign a crew but can't control them directly.
The transport will be deployed from skyranger originating base (or maybe the closest base)
my quick $0.02
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I think everyone is on a similar path with this idea.
However adding a whole new transport ship will become tedious for the player, i think it should be done automatically by the system, I like the idea of showing a new blip on the map.
Items carried by the soldiers will be counted for immediate research, renaming item will be picked up by the clean-up crew.
Something like this could work, to get the player more involved.
Once a mission is completed, a cleanup crew is sent to salvage the remain, (optional: the clean up crew could consist of lets say 5 scientist and 5 engineers, with maybe 4 soldiers for defense)
The transport will appear on the globe and will need an escort. as they could be attacked by retaliating aliens. (which creates the possibility of a new mission)
Clean-up time varies depending on the size of the ship (obviously smaller ships will be faster)
after transport on base arrives then all items will be transferred to base.
The player can buy and upgrade transport ships and assign a crew but can't control them directly.
The transport will be deployed from skyranger originating base (or maybe the closest base)
my quick $0.02
I had a slightly different thought on this, i am not stressing over it though.
Cleanup crew should be sent from a secret Government base (maybe several for each government, so aliens can attack their bases also) and all goods should be sent there before being transported back to x-com. This opens up a few new mission types without adding any more micromanagement to the player, anything carried from the battle-scape can go home with them.
ALso X-com team must stay on site until cleanup crew arrives , this way , if a another alien ship approaches , you can play a Defence mission from within the crashed UFO. IT will also force me not to have only one skyranger team
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that is not a bad idea, the only problem i see is, how long will they need to wait, and the issue being the autofinish in OXC.
the only thing i don't like is that there is a third party involved, i don't trust the government :) but seriously i think programming that will be a little more complex. I think it should be soemthign that is easy to code, that doesn't add extra micromanagement to the player but it also provides a little more logic to the system.
so we could leave it as a notification
"Our recovery team has taken #number hours to clean up crash site #number and are now enroute to base #name. Please provide escort" at that time the AI could get an opportunity to blow that transport out of the sky. if successful xcom get nothing or maybe another mission to save the survivors if any.
The goal here will be for the aliens to attempt to prevent xcom from getting more alien resources. it could be done randomly. Just to make it a little more difficult for the player to just get a gazillion heavy plasmas
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in order to keep it as simple as possible while optionally expanding it, I would like to propose the following changes, to be introduced in this order of priority:
1) loot from mission sites is not teleported to the base, but added to the transport queue, arrival time is calculated by distance as if it was transported from another base.
1a) loot in the hands of a soldier or on board the transport craft (i.e. dropped inside) arrives at the base with the transport craft (skyranger etc.)
2) after a mission is completed, the mission site changes into a "clean-up site" (marked by a different color) for x hours before the "transport" starts. (x=? fixed value by mission site type? depending on amount of loot? IDK.)
3) a mechanic is introduced that saves the "state" of mission sites after the battlescape ends.
3a) "clean-up sites" can be attacked by UFOs, adding a new mission type: "clean-up team rescue". the mission site is the same as before: it retains all damage from the original fight, loot is partially piled up, storage crates are standing around, (armed?) civilians are present (the clean-up team), UFOs/alien bases are partially dismantled (parts are missing, like nav consoles, power sources, some walls etc. - it should be possible to randomly delete objects, right?), and fresh aliens are roaming the site.
4) a mechanic is introduced that shows transports for transfers on the geoscape. (adding the transports for stuff you buy would create too much trouble, I guess - where is the stuff coming from, anyway?)
4a) these transports can be attacked, too, adding a new mission type: "recover transport". the mission site is a landed UFO site with a (yet to be created) crashed human cargo plane. a few (armed?) civilians (the flight crew) are present, otherwise the mission plays as normal. if successful, loot previously on the transport craft has to be recovered by means of a "clean-up site" again...
I think 1) needs to be introduced. all others would be really really nice, but 1) is a must.
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Maybe i should of been clearer, whilst waiting you would be back on Geoscape , and the reason for the local government support is they may be closer to the crash site than the x-com base, freeing you troops up quicker, other wise there is only 2 options, auto send a transport ship after the skyranger every time, or wait up to12 hours after the mission is finished to send a cleanup team from your base.
Maybe Government bases could send the cleanup crew then send it straight back you your base, this would speed it up some what.
Also , if you land in a unfriendly area , no other government would want to start a war, so then the cleanup crew must come from your base in that case.
So Moriarty, in your version, Point2, does the skyranger stay for entire time or are you thinking of another plane landing as per my thoughts?
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Make it so:
- ALL weapons and ammo should always be brought back with the Skyranger.
- Alloys (UFO hull and such), nailed down UFO components (navigation consoles and such), dead bodies and elerium with a general transport.
How ever CAPTURED aliens should require special attention, you don't want them to wake up amongst the cleanup crew (especially Chrysalids or Ethereals)... ;)
They should be guarded by some troopers and transported back on a specialized transport.
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Make it so:
- ALL weapons and ammo should always be brought back with the Skyranger.
- Alloys (UFO hull and such), nailed down UFO components (navigation consoles and such), dead bodies and elerium with a general transport.
that sounds reasonable. you wouldn't want to leave weapons lying around even with the most trusted clean-up crews.
How ever CAPTURED aliens should require special attention, you don't want them to wake up amongst the cleanup crew (especially Chrysalids or Ethereals)... ;)
They should be guarded by some troopers and transported back on a specialized transport.
well, if we say we bring the weapons and ammo back on the transport craft, perhaps the same should apply for live aliens... that's the best way for them to be guarded, surrounded by xcom soldiers with stun rods. (and no, I won't go into detail about what happens if you get an alien stunned by smoke or weapons fire and your troops don't even have stun rods... they always have fists, rifle butts and perhaps some makeshift tazer from flashlight batteries and paperclips. there's a MacGyver in every team. :P
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okay, so here's a modified proposal:
in order to keep it as simple as possible while optionally expanding it, I would like to propose the following changes, to be introduced in this order of priority:
1) loot from mission sites is not teleported to the base, but divided into two stacks: all weapons, ammo, items, live aliens and stuff that soldiers carry or that is on the floor of the transport craft when the battlescape ends are put onto the xcom transport craft (and unloaded to the base once the transport craft arrives back home). the rest (alien alloys, elerium, UFO components, Alien bodies) is added to the transport queue, arrival time is calculated by distance as if it was transported from another base.
1a) loot in the hands of a soldier or on board the transport craft (i.e. dropped inside) arrives at the base with the transport craft (skyranger etc.)
2) after a mission is completed, the mission site changes into a "clean-up site" (marked by a different color) for x hours before the "transport" starts. (x=? fixed value by mission site type? depending on amount of loot? IDK. for game purposes, the site is basically an "xcom base" that the aliens immediately know of - so it can be attacked by a standard retaliation mission (*) )
3) a mechanic is introduced that saves the "state" of mission sites (terrain setup, damage to terrain etc.) after the battlescape ends.
3a) "clean-up sites" can be attacked by UFOs, adding a new mission type: "clean-up team rescue". the mission site is the same as before: it retains all damage from the original fight, loot is partially piled up, storage crates are standing around, (armed?) civilians are present (the clean-up team), UFOs/alien bases are partially dismantled (parts are missing, like nav consoles, power sources, some walls etc. - it should be possible to randomly delete objects, right?), and fresh aliens are roaming the site.
4) a mechanic is introduced that shows transports for transfers on the geoscape. (adding the transports for stuff you buy would create too much trouble, I guess - where is the stuff coming from, anyway?)
4a) these transports can be attacked, too. for mechanics purposes, if the transport happens to cross the path of a UFO within the UFO detection radius (or passes an alien base within the detection radius), a new UFO will be spawned at a randomly chosen heading and distance from the transport. this UFO immediately travels towards the transport at top speed. as soon as the UFO catches up with the transport, the transport will immediately crash. the UFO will "land" on top of the crash site immediately - that is, both the transport and the UFO will disappear to be replace with a new mission site: "transport crash site". the mission site (for battlescape purposes) is a landed UFO site with a (yet to be created) crashed human cargo plane. a few (armed?) civilians (the flight crew) are present, otherwise the mission plays as normal. if successful, loot previously on the transport craft has to be recovered by means of a "clean-up site" again...
I think 1) needs to be introduced. all others would be really really nice, but 1) is a must.
(*): about retaliation missions: are they spawned randomly, or do they happen only at the end of the month? because these missions should happen more often, of course :)
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well, if we say we bring the weapons and ammo back on the transport craft, perhaps the same should apply for live aliens... that's the best way for them to be guarded, surrounded by xcom soldiers with stun rods. (and no, I won't go into detail about what happens if you get an alien stunned by smoke or weapons fire and your troops don't even have stun rods... they always have fists, rifle butts and perhaps some makeshift tazer from flashlight batteries and paperclips. there's a MacGyver in every team. :P
Though the Skyranger could be full...
If you manage to win without casualties somehow or take more captures then you have room for... XD
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well, stunned aliens are items, after all :P
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well, stunned aliens are items, after all :P
Though I wished that could change :(
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you could assign all items a value that the game reads and decides who transfers what...
heavy - navigations, elerium generator, entertainment, alien autopsy equipment, large bodies (live/dead reaper/sectopod/cyberdisks)
bulk - elerium, alien food, alloy, dead bodies
equipment - grenades, clips, guns, mindprobes
live aliens - any standard sized alien
i'd say the troop transport could handle the equipment (or atleast a portion of it, say first 20/40/80 items of that type?) and the live aliens (or atleast a number of them, say around 4? in order of priority; commander comes with us ect...) these are automatically brought back to base at mission auto-end with the troops.
The rest is simply assumed to be handled by cleanup and arrives via transfer.
you could then deepen this by assigning different capacities to different craft - skyranger 40items+2live - lightning 20+2 - Avenger 60+4 (figures purely for example sake)
that way its all handled by the game and it doesn't bother me with extra post mission shenanigans (eg picking up equipment and hauling it back to skyranger with me... ugh...)
plus extra geoscape blips representing transfers would be cool. visual indicators of whats happening is always welcome.
wish i could code :/
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I would LOVE to see a cut-scene of a captured reaper being forced into a cage... ^^
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a little off topic
I know someone mentioned about the purchased transports.
How about making the transport originate randomly from one of the main cities in the "continent" (read region) were your base is located. so that is not always the same place and modify the time for arrival based on the distance from that city. The same will go with items we will sell
This will make it look like we are selling to different entities as well as buying from different entities.
Clearly this will allow for a new mission type :) the map would be a huge cargo transport with little outside map, although cargo-ships are just a huge empty area we can make it similar to the ships in TFTD :) those were always a pain to search.
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Clearly this will allow for a new mission type :) the map would be a huge cargo transport with little outside map, although cargo-ships are just a huge empty area we can make it similar to the ships in TFTD :) those were always a pain to search.
If I see another 2 stage troller or cruiseship missions its too soon! >:(
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How about making the transport originate randomly from one of the main cities in the "continent" (read region) were your base is located. so that is not always the same place and modify the time for arrival based on the distance from that city.
that's an interesting idea... although people might not like the random arrival times. maybe we could first make it so that the items that come from further off travel a bit faster, so that the travel times stay true to the original? we could always add an optional random element. I think it would make for nice "eye candy". plus it allows for the addition of missions like "defend the transport" - those could offer the additional reward that you get the items for free (or a refund for them, since you already paid) because the seller is happy that you protected his people...
The same will go with items we will sell
uh... yeah, maybe... but it wouldn't have any adverse in-game effect if those transports were to be attacked by the aliens, right? or would it?
This will make it look like we are selling to different entities as well as buying from different entities.
Clearly this will allow for a new mission type :) the map would be a huge cargo transport with little outside map, although cargo-ships are just a huge empty area we can make it similar to the ships in TFTD :) those were always a pain to search.
but that would be a cargo plane, right? although in TFTD it would be ships, of course... ships who have been hired to ship cargo to a specific location and throw it overboard, no questions asked :)
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I think that it should be that if the Skyranger is overloaded with materials on a successful mission the crash site should remain where it is and turn into a 'salvage' mission which contains whatever the Sky Ranger couldn't fly home. When you return to the site with a more empty Skyranger or some type of freighter class ship, the mission will start like this (similar to what was previously posted). Civilians will be placed at specific points around a wrecked alien craft and will remain stationary. Soldiers will be located in defensive positions around the ship. Aliens will be placed within X radius of the craft and advance forward. The mission will be to defend the civilians for a set amount of rounds. % salvage is based on % of civilians alive by the end of round X (or if all aliens are killed). If a civilian dies during a salvage mission, a random scientist or engineer will be deducted from your pool of scientists and engineers. I think this would make it simple for the player and not burden them with salvage in the beginning of the game because the small crafts would be able to be fully loaded on the Skyranger. This would also incentive the building of freighter class ships to receive more salvage. This will be an option that will help in the end of the game yet not be necessary for a successful completion on lower difficulties or in early game.
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Wait, why would you leave the crew alone to clean up? It wouldn't make sense. You're gonna feel pretty dumb for not securing the Site with the clean-up crew the second time they get attacked and then the third and fourth and fifth. Your Operatives have no rush to leave. They need to stay to secure everything. If they survived, they might be traumatized the first time seeing aliens, but imagine how lesser security would act? Let my guys secure it. They'll even get debriefed on-site after the clean-up crew send the numbers to the CFN.
I do like your other ideas of transports flying with you back to base or going to another base. Would be cool to click on the transport to see what they're carrying and watch exactly what they're doing, like say flying to an airport or on an air carrier ship in the middle of the ocean for refill as well.
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I think a very simple option, such as adding a transfer of items would be great.
We can imagine another organization, a civilian one, collect the items and bring them to your base.
I don't think it's necessary to stop the "exploit" of exceeding base storage with this as it will prevent you from manufacturing and transferring from other bases. We could consider the excess is stored outside the base, and administration refuse you manufacture more items as long as this "unacceptable" state has not been solved...
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What about needing a new transport ship in you base to get most stuff? ^^
And you can have new ones unlocked like with the Firestorm, Lightning and Avanger.
offcourse they need their own hanger as well and a small crew of soldiers.
Alternatively, you can use those planes to go on missions too but they hold less soldiers, as most room is for cargo not people.
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What about needing a new transport ship in you base to get most stuff? ^^
And you can have new ones unlocked like with the Firestorm, Lightning and Avanger.
offcourse they need their own hanger as well and a small crew of soldiers.
Alternatively, you can use those planes to go on missions too but they hold less soldiers, as most room is for cargo not people.
I thought about this, too, but somebody objected (rightfully) that this would increase the micro-management to a point where it would probably become tedious.
that's why I think it should be as simple as possible, hence my proposal from before. :)
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I thought about this, too, but somebody objected (rightfully) that this would increase the micro-management to a point where it would probably become tedious.
that's why I think it should be as simple as possible, hence my proposal from before. :)
I totally agree with that. X-com is a well-balanced game between management and action, if you change that it will be bad.