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Modding => Released Mods => XPiratez => Topic started by: Swedebeast on September 25, 2024, 12:56:57 am

Title: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 25, 2024, 12:56:57 am
I have been absolutely obsessed with this mod the past three days to the point it is doing bad, bad things to my sleep pattern. I am a long time fan of the franchise, yadda yadda, anyway, to the meat and potatoes.

After my 4th base defense mission was a complete surprise, not having the easy to defeat pirates and raiders, but
actual DOOM assets with plasma guns, rocket launchers, gatling guns and the literal forces of hell kicking my teeth in - and getting those attacks pretty frequently, interspersed with a surprise raid by Ratmen in SWAT gear, I am wondering something.

What are the missions you do that provoke certain factions and enemies to attack your base? Was it all the zombies I killed that made demons knock on my door? Was it all the threatening Ratmen farms I burned to the ground that made them call 911 on me?

On that point, and it might be a spoiler I am begging for, but maybe there is a resource or a link that details what kind of missions you take part in or what kind of enemies you kill provokes attacks on your bases? Y'know, so I know what to expect in my third run (I don't want to talk about my first run).

At any rate, I'd like to have a confirmation on the two examples I mentioned above, please and thank you.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Iazo on September 25, 2024, 11:36:43 am
Without knowing your circumstances, it is difficult to say.

Most usual suspects for unseemingly difficult crackdowns catching you early (I ASSUME it is early, you couldn't have possibly gotten that far in 4 days): Boss rank. Starting in Thebes. Jackass personality and built a dungeon. Started in Hawaii. Finishing a Ratman Rodeo with victory.

If ot's none if these, drop a save to do some dissection.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Psyentific on September 25, 2024, 12:41:06 pm
What's wrong with starting in Hawaii?
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2024, 12:44:43 pm
Quote from: Psyentific on September 25, 2024, 12:41:06 pm
What's wrong with starting in Hawaii?

There is very little land in this region for the enemy to patrol, so your base can be discovered fairly easily.

Whether it's actually bad is, of course, debatable.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 25, 2024, 12:58:09 pm
Quote from: Iazo on September 25, 2024, 11:36:43 am
Without knowing your circumstances, it is difficult to say.

Most usual suspects for unseemingly difficult crackdowns catching you early (I ASSUME it is early, you couldn't have possibly gotten that far in 4 days): Boss rank. Starting in Thebes. Jackass personality and built a dungeon. Started in Hawaii. Finishing a Ratman Rodeo with victory.

If ot's none if these, drop a save to do some dissection.

I should say I am 2-3 years in - but the attacks I mentioned that now I know how to deal with them only take time more than anything to deal with, ranges to about 22-25 enemies.

I believe I have done 10 or so Rodeo's before I noticed anything.

But also 5 Zombie missions, and about the same amount of Blood Rituals.

I'll slap a save here and I'll let people see what they think, I am also curious what in general provokes base assaults, and what decides who does the assaulting.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Iazo on September 25, 2024, 01:17:27 pm
Holy hell, 2-3 years in in just 4 days?

Ok, this means you def have started mandatory crackdowns. These happen every month if they detect your base.

The way to protect yourself in such cases is to use turreted AA facilities, you are considered to be experienced enough to handle full scale crackdowns by then.

Still...2-3 years in? Just how.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 25, 2024, 02:57:18 pm
Quote from: Iazo on September 25, 2024, 01:17:27 pm
Holy hell, 2-3 years in in just 4 days?

Ok, this means you def have started mandatory crackdowns. These happen every month if they detect your base.

The way to protect yourself in such cases is to use turreted AA facilities, you are considered to be experienced enough to handle full scale crackdowns by then.

Still...2-3 years in? Just how.

What can I say? I am on sick leave.

I have unlocked some radar facility that promises me will "bring down incoming enemy shuttles, making them crash - 100%" so we will see what that does. My only other big point of frustration is getting the 71 points of manufacturing space for the Menacing Hull project.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: ontherun on September 25, 2024, 03:57:44 pm
Dear Swedebeast,

xpiratez is a really difficult game, it takes lots of patience, i think it stillis not very well balanced, just try everynow and then when another update pops up. If you're interested in some save games to test/play che the Extended Piratez general FAQ/Strategy Guide (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4102.0) thread.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Iazo on September 25, 2024, 04:15:00 pm
Quote from: Swedebeast on September 25, 2024, 02:57:18 pm
What can I say? I am on sick leave.

I have unlocked some radar facility that promises me will "bring down incoming enemy shuttles, making them crash - 100%" so we will see what that does. My only other big point of frustration is getting the 71 points of manufacturing space for the Menacing Hull project.

Right now I am at work, but I promise I will check your game out when I get home. That said, you really shoyld not expect miracles from ONE overcharged radar.

If you want to be proofed, start with over 10 Flak cannons, 10 laser defenses or about 8 plasma defenses, which can bring down almost everything.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 25, 2024, 06:27:30 pm
I put it in quotations to deliberately mean that the 100% thing is up for debate - and I never said I expected it to be an easy game.

I appreciate the offer to check out the game, as I have not yet found a way to manufacture any other defensive measures. Or craft weapons aside from the 2nd bomb launcher.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Iazo on September 25, 2024, 10:31:03 pm
Ok, so first things first, I'm sorry. The strategic situation of the save is quite bad.

It's been about 15 months, not 2-3 years, which is much more believable, and mandatory crackdowns should not start for a while yet. On difficulty 0, it should be 2 more years.

Secondly, you are playing on difficulty 0, which means that some of the more esoteric research will be locked to you.

Third, you are VERY slow with the Tiny drill, you're 15 months in and you have yet to do it. This is much too slow, for  a thing that should have been done by month 6. You need workshop space, the meta is just building extra extractors to meet the space needed. Or a workshop if you delay it till then.

You are still using the Airbus and Little Bird, which is DEFINETLY too slow.

You have maximum brainers, but no personal labs, which is what you need to expand, and again, this is considerably too late.

Your score is, in general, bad. You are still stuck at rank 0 in month 15, which is a very bad place to be in, with no exageration.

You have actively avoided researching any new missions. This is a critical mistake and its ongoing cost is that you are quite behind.



There are multiple things that are going poorly for you, unfortunately. I cannot see any extreme thing that would have provoked a crackdown, so I assume the DOOM guys that attacked you was the story crackdown that happens sometime after Month 10, signalling the start of missions in which you can fight DOOM enemies.

The crackdown is not particularly hard, for sure, but it is a FIRM reminder that you need to do significantly better, because things are only to become more difficult from here. Piratez is lenient with time, but you can't possibly play at this glacial pace forever, and the crackdowns are just sort of 'checks' to make sure you are actually doing stuff to progress at a reasonable pace.

AA facilities, at the moment, should probably be the least of your worries. Plenty of things to worry before that.


All in all, to tell you the truth, your save is actually a challenge run at this point. It is a very good save for people to try and repair/fix it, but I fear that you're going to limp and bleed out slowly from now on.


Actually reminds me of my first save that I lost because of crackdowns, my earliest posts on the forum are about this. As a side-note, the crackdowns were the last of my problem, too.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 26, 2024, 04:55:52 pm
With that out of the way, can anyone answer the question in the first post - what missions or actions by the players provoke certain factions to assault your bases, and also in addition, perhaps how often you can get away with?
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: John___Doe on September 26, 2024, 05:52:05 pm
Quote from: Swedebeast on September 26, 2024, 04:55:52 pm
With that out of the way, can anyone answer the question in the first post - what missions or actions by the players provoke certain factions to assault your bases, and also in addition, perhaps how often you can get away with?

Piratez has a number of base assaults that can roll each month unprompted, and cannot wholly be prevented except by having sufficient base defenses to destroy the assaulting craft. The number of such assaults that can generate is in part dependent on difficulty level and a few different research techs - Male Touch and Reject the Power both disable some, while having a Dungeon built anywhere enables more. The difficulty of these assaults tends to go up over time.

If one of your bases is located by enemy shipping, enemies can assault that base. The scouting portion of this can be in response to shooting down enemy shipping, but can also be conducted by enemy craft not responding to the downing of shipping. Base assaults stemming from this are not always the same faction as that which located the base initially. These assaults can be prevented by shooting down scouting enemy craft before they locate your base.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 26, 2024, 08:49:18 pm
Quote from: John___Doe on September 26, 2024, 05:52:05 pm
Piratez has a number of base assaults that can roll each month unprompted, and cannot wholly be prevented except by having sufficient base defenses to destroy the assaulting craft. The number of such assaults that can generate is in part dependent on difficulty level and a few different research techs - Male Touch and Reject the Power both disable some, while having a Dungeon built anywhere enables more. The difficulty of these assaults tends to go up over time.

If one of your bases is located by enemy shipping, enemies can assault that base. The scouting portion of this can be in response to shooting down enemy shipping, but can also be conducted by enemy craft not responding to the downing of shipping. Base assaults stemming from this are not always the same faction as that which located the base initially. These assaults can be prevented by shooting down scouting enemy craft before they locate your base.

That is very good to know, I appreciate the rundown. I am not upset that some base assaults are not the cause of provoking some factions, like raiders would be dumb enough to go at anything that promises loot - I would be very surprised if it is intentional that I get possessed and demons attacking without due cause, however. So, I think that is why I was wondering that going on zombie killing missions is what put me on their RADAR.

However, if it can just happen for other reasons, that is good to know. Attacking shipping and propaganda towers makes perfect sense in that regard.
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Marza on September 26, 2024, 09:54:01 pm
DOOM possessed and demons don't wait for a provocation; they attack and raid everyone and everything, including player owned hideouts. They're one of the few crackdowns that just happen like that.

Most crackdowns aren't done be infernal monsters and therefore have rational cause. Without simply listing everything from the .rul file, alien/human soldiers will try to invade your hideouts if you intercept their shipping, or become famous with world wide notoriety (a combination of researching some key technologies and achieving the higher Captain ranks).
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: Swedebeast on September 26, 2024, 11:04:17 pm
Quote from: Marza on September 26, 2024, 09:54:01 pm
DOOM possessed and demons don't wait for a provocation; they attack and raid everyone and everything, including player owned hideouts. They're one of the few crackdowns that just happen like that.

Most crackdowns aren't done be infernal monsters and therefore have rational cause. Without simply listing everything from the .rul file, alien/human soldiers will try to invade your hideouts if you intercept their shipping, or become famous with world wide notoriety (a combination of researching some key technologies and achieving the higher Captain ranks).

If that specific group has no trigger, then that is good to know. I had a hunch that the warning texts from certain technologies that do warn you will gain notoriety weren't for show, and so in my earlier game I avoided such tech because I was cautious I was advancing too fast. Thanks for the explanation!
Title: Re: Question on Base Defence - or - what provokes whom
Post by: ontherun on October 05, 2024, 07:43:12 pm
i usually got dark ones crackdown after doin "doomed farm" mission. I think it is the only mission that is for them as main enemies, along with some of "UAC Vaults" ones and "hot pursuit"