OpenXcom Forum
Modding => XPiratez => Released Mods => XPZ Strategy/Tactics => Topic started by: Eddie on March 12, 2016, 01:09:43 am
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Hi everyone,
this is my strating guide to the Piratez mod, version 0.98. Piratez has a lot of stuff and complicated damage formulas for melee weapons, so this can be quite overwhelming to the new player. Combined with tough enemies, you can have a few nasty surprises. But I am here to help so I can point you in the right direction with your strategy.
This guide is aimed at people who know how to play xcom, so I won't explain things like how important smoke grenades are which I consider basic knowledge.
Where to put the starting base?
The middle of north america is good. Why? Good money from countries and your starting radar covers most of the continent. You won't miss any Shippings in north america (Piratez name for UFOs) with your starting radar (it has 100% detection), so that is one thing less you need to worry about. And the first Shippings are guaranteed to be near your base, just like in vanilla xcom.
What to build first?
Short answer: Barracks (living quarters), then when you have the money vault (stores) and hangars.
Explanation:
Your starting base has 12 hands (soldiers), 10 runts (engineers) and 3 brainers (scientists). You don't have much starting money so what you can do with that is quite limited. Your craft, the bonaventura, can carry 18 hands. And more hands is always useful on missions, so getting more hands should be your first priority. You will also have many wounded hands after missions (they don't die as easily as in vanilla xcom), so prepare in time to have some backup hands and living space if you don't want to sack your wounded gals.
Your living space is maxed out in your starting base, so your first purchase should be a barracks. Build it to the left of your armored vault, this will help make your base more defendable. After you made some cash from missions, the next thing to build is a vault (general stores). Build it to the left of your workshop, again to make base defence easier. You won't loose any loot from a mission if you run out of space. You will get a dialogue where you can choose what to sell to make room for the things you want to keep. Same thing with captured enemies if you run out of prison space.
Next you want to add two hangars, to be built next to your existing one. One hangar is for a pigeon which is a radar craft, the other is for a hunterkiller-interceptor that you will probably build in the second month.
What to research?
Now this depends a bit on your playstyle. I play a capture heavy game, for that I would go first with:
-"Basic armor" The resulting warrior armor is cheap to produce and has quite good protection. 30 all around, plus modifier 80% for piercing (bullets) and cutting and 90% for the rest. It makes your gals slower though (-15 Tu and -15 stamina). It costs 1250 to prduce plus three scrap metal which can be bought for 250 each. The other early armor you get is the tac vest, which can be bought for 25 000. The protection from it is worse than warrior, but you loose less Tu and stamina. Later you can also produce this armor yourself for a lot less money. The required research item is "personal armor parts", and you need these as materials.
-"Contacts: Smugglers" is next on the list. It gives access to cattle prods and fusiontorch clips. Cattle prods will make capturing easier and fusiontorch clips you need to build your first interceptor. Building your own is cheaper than to buy a jetbike.
For more firepower and a leathal playstyle, the important research is:
-"Flintlocks & Bombs". This allows you to manufacture black powder bombs and explosive cannonballs, both very useful and cheap. The assault cannon is pretty useless without the exploding cannonball, as it is not accurate enough for direct hits. Also this research allows you to manufacture the assault cannon and the blunderbuss.
-"Spring cleaning" lets you convert the piles of junk in your vault into scrap metal, chemicals and superconducting wire. The resulting materials take up MORE space than the piles of junk, so only convert when you actually need the materials. Scrap metal and chemicals are needed for weapon and ammo manufactuing. Scrap metal can be bought for cheap, chemicals are a bit more expansive. This research is not really needed, it just gives you cheap access to these materials and frees up your vauls.
After these items, split up your brainers on whatever you like. The research times in the beginning are so fast that you waste brainer time if you have them all on the same project, as they only finish at midnight. Example: something takes 4 man days to research and you put 3 brainers on it. It will complete in 2 days, but you have spent 6 man days on the project, wasting 2 man days. One example of this is decrypted data disk and gun almanach. They research so fast it is a waste to put more than 1 brainer on them. If you find one of these, put 1 brainer on it immediately.
The research options in pirates are so plentiful that I cannot recommend you a specific research sequence. There are however some guidelines. Higher tech is dependent on having all lower tech researched first. For example, you need to research all simple armor to unlock more advanced armor. So if you want better armor, research everything that is related to armor and eventually you unlock the higher tech. If you want craft weapons, research the big weapons that you find. For lasers, you need to research all lasers before you can manufacture ammunition for them. For new interceptors, you need research on enemy ships as well as research on UFO components to advance.
What to manufacture?
To make money make grog. Simple as that. When you find apples, research them. Then you can make even more profit with wine.
What to buy at start?
Assuming you built a barracks, you don't have much money left.
- The tactical vest they sell is quite good armor, but expensive. You can research basic armor right away and that will give you a slightly better armor that costs 2000 with required materials. I would say buy two tac vests and give these to your frontline gals to have some protection until your other armor is ready.
- Next purchase is some hunting bows. These will be your most useful ranged weapon for the early game. Note that they use throwing skill for accuracy. Buy a bow for every gal with a good throwing skill (good beeing >50).
- Next on the list: chainsaw and hammer. A gal that can lift a hammer can kill pretty much every early game enemy in one or two hits. A hammer pretty much always hits because of the game mechanics that it uses (a range 1 shot), so no need for a high melee skill. Chainsaw is the same category, but unlike the hammer can't kill everything (enemy armor is the problem here). It uses the same 1 range shot mechanic as the hammer so won't miss regardless of melee skill. It is also a lot lighter than the hammer. Every gal can effectively use a chainsaw, so give them to gals you don't know what else to give.
- Final items: blowpipe and smokes. Like the bow, the blowpipe uses throwing skill. This is more of a special weapon, as it is short ranged. Use in combination with smoke grenades to get close to the enemy without them spotting you. Half of the damage the blowpipe darts cause is stun, so this will let you capture some enemies alive. The smoke also does some stun damage, not to every enemy though (helmet makes immune to smoke usually). Captured enemies will bring you the most money out of your loot, as the weapons you find don't have much resale value. SPOILER ALERT: the blowpipe is also effective vs the first armored enemies you meet (Osiron security), as they have a weakness to acid. Also, the blowpipe has armor piercing capabilities. END OF SPOILER
A low risk early capture strategy is to throw smokes at spotted enemies and retreat. Next round, have a scout spot the enemies in the smoke and then shoot them with the blowpipe outside of their visual range (to avoid reaction fire). Some might die, some will go down alive. If one goes down, send a gal to check on him for fatal wounds. In Piratez, enemies bleed and a stunned one with fatal wounds might die before the end of battle. Be careful when healing them, they might get back on their feet. (Protip from Arthanor: use vodka to heal wounds as that does not heal health.) Have someone with a stun melee weapon ready to put them back down. Of your starting melee weapons, all that do stun also do health damage. The handle is the one that does least health damage, so preferably use that to put enemies back down after healing. The handle might not work on armored guys though.
What to buy later when you have a bit of money to spare?
- Heavy machinegun. A really good weapon if you have a gal that can lift it. Use it like a sniper rifle. There is no range penalty on the auto shot and with 8 shots at least one shot will always hit, with a good chance for more. Because of the 8 shots, a high firing skill is not that important. With a high firing skill, this becomes your "I kill you" button. It needs 90% of your tu's to shoot, so you cannot really move before shooting. The top of the Bonaventura is always a good place to sit.
- Ol' carbine. Two aimed shots per round, with great accuracy and no range penalty. This is the only early game weapon that has these attributes which makes it actually the best early game long range rifle. The snap is also quite accurate. Damage per bullet is not great, but as you can get two hits where other weapons only get one this more than makes up for it. More hits is also more experience.
- Mortar. This will be your rocket launcher equivalent. You could also buy an RPG which actually is a rocket launcher, but I prefer the mortar for demolition work. The mortar is cheaper and has cheaper ammo. Also, the mortar has an arcing projectile, so it's line of fire is that of a thrown grenade. This means you get the benefit of firing an explosive projectile from above without actually beeing above. Pay attention to the skills needed for accuracy, as it is 50% firing and 50% throwing. WARNING: This weapon can cause overkill, meaning too much damage will compleately destroy a target, leaving no corpse.
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Showstoppers. What will force you to reload or loose?
- Your first terror mission can have armored cars. Yes, more than one, I had three. On superhuman, these need explosives >60 damage to even scratch, the more damage the better. A heavy machine gun can damage them a little bit and they are not immune to fire, so flamethrowers can eventually wear them down. A hammer can also do damage, but they explode on death so melee should only be a last resort measure. Advised weapons are mortar, high explosive, RPG and landmines. These do enough damage to kill in one or two hits, so bring enough.
- Base defence. I had my first base defence at the beginning of month two. They bring plasma weapons and blaster launchers, and if it's the academy then they will also use mind tricks. The ships that search for your base are too strong to shoot down, so once a retaliation mission has spawned you are at the mercy of the RNG if they find you or not. You can avoid the spawning of a retaliation mission by not shooting down ships and only attack those that are landed. There are some ships that can be shot down safely without the risk of retaliation. This is dependent on faction and mission. I did not look at the code yet to figure out exactly which ones these are.
- Hellerium/Elirium/Nuclear fuel. The Bonaventura needs that as fuel. If you don't fly around excessively you will get enough as salvage and it can also be bought. Just watch your supplies and keep enough cash to buy some when you notice you run low. If you research the small ship engine you can dismantle one to get 10 hellerium. This way you can also make more money, as 10 hellerium sell for more than a small ship engine.
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What enemies to expect
Contrary to xcom, you meet hard to kill enemies right from the start. The standard armored enemy is nearly impossible to kill with your starting muskets. Explosives do a good job here. For armored enemies, the direction they are facing is very important as the rear armor is generally much weaker than the front armor. Don't expect to do any damage when you hit the front armor. Some enemies also have resistance to stun, so capture requires several hits with a cattle prod.
Weapon analysis
I will just talk about what you have at the start and what can be bought cheap enough. Most of the weapons you can buy are too expansive to be viable in the beginning. Much cheaper to loot them off enemies. Ammo cost is also a problem.
Good ranged weapons:
- Hunting bow. As stated in the what to buy section, the hunting bow will be your best early ranged weapon. An important factor here the ammo is free.
- Muskets. The musket is actually quite good. It has one fairly accurate aimed shot per round for decent damage. Other rifles you find won't shoot faster ( I'm just talking about long range here), maybe a bit more accurate and for about the same damage.
- Boarding gun. Good damage, but not that accurate and very heavy. Ammo will be a problem though and you only have one. The research needed to manufacture the ammo does not take long and you will have it soon enough.
- Fuso knives and ninja stars. Good damage and low cost, but limited range (8 for knives and 10 for stars). Needs good throwing skill (>50) before they can be used effectively. If you don't depleate the stack you get a full one back after the mission.
- Blackpowder bomb. Limited range, but kills most stuff you throw it at. The research needed to manufacture them, "Flintlocks & Bombs", is available right from the start and finishes quickly.
Not so good ranged weapons:
- Flintlock pistols. Not accurate enough to be useful.
- Handcannon. Good damage, but also not accurate enough. Also quite heavy.
- Assault cannon. Again, not accurate enough. Think of it as a hammer with range three. Once you have researched explosive cannonballs, becomes a bit more useful. Then again, a blackpowder bomb does the same damage as an exploding cannonball and is a lot less heavy. The cannonball just has more range than the blackpowder bomb.
- Molotov. Not enough damage, but will drop the moral of enemies you hit. If they panic and drop their weapon, they are much easier to capture. Can be useful depending on fire resistance of the target, but is not something that will kill.
Good melee weapons
Here I should explain what the descriptions mean.
- Armor +30% (cutlass) means the armor of the enemy is more effective. An armor value of 10 is treated as armor 13 when striking it with a weapon that has +30% armor
- Stun +50% (pipe) means when the weapon does damage, it does additional stun damage. If you hit a target with 10 Armor for 20 damage, then you do 10 damage plus 5 stun damage. The +50% stun damage is calculated from the 10 damage that got past armor. It should be noted that the descriptions are not always correct. The pipe actually has +75% stun damage.
- Armor damage 10% (hammer) means before the damage calculation, armor is reduced by damage*10%. Each hit damages the armor, so with this weapon you can eventually kill everything if you hit it often enough.
If you want more info on melee weapons, scroll to the bottom of this post. There I've attached the spreadsheet that I use to calculate which weapon is best.
For killing:
- Hammer. A gal that can lift it will kill everything in one, sometimes two hits. Nearly always hits regardless of melee skill because of the game mechanic it uses (1 range shot). Can destroy terrain. It also does stun damage, but most things will just die.
- Chainsaw. Same as the hammer, nearly always hits because of game mechanic. Kills most things in one er... swing? Has trouble with armored enemies. Useful for finishing off enemies you tried to stun because of the autoshot. If you did some stun damage to your target before you hit them with the chainsaw, they will most likely become unconcious.
- Plastersteel pipe. Good damage, fast and quite accurate. Useful not because of the best damage (damage output is still very high) but because of all around good attributes. Scales well with strength and does a good amount of stun damage. Good chance to stun and not kill for tougher enemies. Accurate enough to use with low melee skill. Small enough to fit on your belt.
The other melee weapons are not bad, but mostly the chainsaw is simply better because of accuracy. The hammer would be even better but the weight limits it's use to strong gals. Also note that some enemies have dodge and the chainsaw and hammer can't be dodged.
For stunning:
- Handle. Needs decent bravery (>60) to do enough damage. The melee stun weapon that does the least amount of health damage.
- Rope. If your strength and bravery is not abyssmal, will one-shot stun academicians. It gets it's power from enemys vulnerability to smoke damage, so be careful who you use it on as not every enemy has a 400% modifier.
- Fistycuffs. Needs good skills, but then the damage output is awesome. Melee skill >100 recommended as they are not very accurate. For good damage strength >50 recommended. One of the few weapons that do stun damage and have a 0-200% damage range. Because of the damage range will often do too much damage and kill instead of stun.
Not so good for stunning because of too much health damage: ballbat, pipe, shovel and hammer.
What to do with money?
It is tempting to buy more brainers immediately. But be aware of what they cost you each month. Runts are not as critical as they can pay for themselves by making grog. Fill your capacity for brainers and runts at an equal pace. Meaning when you have 20 runts and 40 workshop space (50% capacity), have about 6 or 7 brainers for your 15 lab space.
Research is not that important. All the armor that is better than what you can research right away (warrior) is dependent on loot you find and you don't know when that will happen. Most weapons you find early you can use without research. Also the craft you can research is just a little bit better than what you can build right away. So better to invest in runts first as they can make money with grog and that is always useful.
It is also better to build a hangar and buy a pigeon radar craft than to build overcharged radar (long range radar). They cost about the same, but the pigeon you can move to an area where the graphs show activity. New bases are mostly used to build more hangars and have more pigeons.
Thats about it I think. If I can think of things that are missing I will add them later.
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Reserved
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Cool tip: Cure fatal wounds off your prisoners with vodka, it doesn't heal any hp so they won't ever get up (from your heals). Also since smoke deals stun damage, it is good to reduce the natural decay of stun on enemies if they are vulnerable to it.
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Wrote some more stuff. If you are a new player and would like some more info on a specific topic, you can ask here and I'll write something.
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I'm still sorta new to the game, but I've been doing well so far.
I generally rely on firearms when I first start off. I sell all of my melee weapons then equip everyone with old carbines.
As for armor I generally don't research it first going for smugglers for their cattle prods.
I usually try to gun it for metal/kevlar armor. I just like the look of kevlar and the accuracy bonus.
During the game I usually make it a thing to capture nazi's for their stick grenades. Stick grenades become my go to weapon for most encounters. Supplemented by guass in case of power armor or mercanaries.
I generally like to start off around where Egypt is because of the large amount of desert. It would make it more easy to handle encounters with an open area without trees or buildings.
Apples are great resources for distilled rum, but by the time I would need it I think I'd be able to create more bases then.
My most reliable basic kit for my first play was an old carbine, stick grenade, and bandage. It doesn't work for basically only mercenaries.
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Thanks for this guide, the TC can be a bit overwhelming, even for experienced XCom players....
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Should there be a mention about nuclear fuel ? (Don't scout like crazy with the Bonny, if you run out of fuel it's 'Game over')
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It is not, Elerium is buyable.
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Added "Showstopper" section with some words about hellerium and "what to buy when you have some money to spare".
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It might not be game over, but if you use up your resources too quickly it might be troublesome to buy more fuel.
Though there's no reason to scout early game IMO. If you do just follow the big ships to find bases.
Lately I've been farming bases for slaves lol.
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I'd put researching Explosives (Blackpowder Explosives?) as pretty high on the list of things to research. Blackpowder Bombs are your cheap go-to for early game firepower, and Expl. Cannonballs don't only make Assault Cannons a bit better, they make them a lot better. Plus, you can make them for cheap, entirely removing RNG from what you find in the early-game compared to available firepower for your gals.
Seriously. Try taking 3-4 Assault Cannons w/Expl. Cannonballs early on. Better than bows by a long shot, and pretty accurate/low TU usage compared to a heavy machinegun too. Shoots like a bow, explodes like a grenade, uses TUs and is as accurate as a crappy rifle. What's not to like?
Them, smoke, flamers and prods are all you really need in the early game. Sprinkle some bows, mêlée and other good looking stuff around to taste (handcannons and boarding guns being favorites). You'd be surprised how much armoured stuff you can meet in the early game on the hardest difficulties, so you want plenty of multi-hit or high damage or high stun weapons. Armour is ace, but it's useless if you're not doing damage yourself.
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IMO Armor isn't that great or useful until you get to about synthsuit or Stormy suit. The TU penalties don't really make up for the added protection when the extra 25 TU will allow you to move and shoot instead of shoot once. Some missions with Synthsuits take 3 turns because I can run up to everything and empty a burst into them.
When I get Assualt Armor some missions literally end on turn 1.
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IMO Armor isn't that great or useful until you get to about synthsuit or Stormy suit. The TU penalties don't really make up for the added protection when the extra 25 TU will allow you to move and shoot instead of shoot once. Some missions with Synthsuits take 3 turns because I can run up to everything and empty a burst into them.
I certainly won't say you're wrong, but it heavily relies on your tactics. If you plan to get hit with small arms fire at all, then for example Warrior does amazing job at stopping pistol and rifle bullets, often making a difference between heavy wounds and nothing at all.
I generally put armour on most of my gals, except for the "melee torpedoes" whom I keep at a relatively safe place and use them to storm isolated enemies; they wear swimsuits or something similar to increase their stamina and movement.
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I certainly won't say you're wrong, but it heavily relies on your tactics. If you plan to get hit with small arms fire at all, then for example Warrior does amazing job at stopping pistol and rifle bullets, often making a difference between heavy wounds and nothing at all.
I generally put armour on most of my gals, except for the "melee torpedoes" whom I keep at a relatively safe place and use them to storm isolated enemies; they wear swimsuits or something similar to increase their stamina and movement.
You plan to get hit? I certainly plan to avoid getting hit.
And (just IMHO) Warrior armor has to be THE worst armor I've seen so far.
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You plan to get hit? I certainly plan to avoid getting hit.
Yes, I actually plan to get hit sometimes. Because I'm not ninja enough to avoid enemy bullets completely, at least I prefer to do it on my terms, which is my good armour girls against relatively puny weapons. After all someone has to tackle the enemy while my assassin types are flanking them.
And (just IMHO) Warrior armor has to be THE worst armor I've seen so far.
It's a matter of playstyle again. If all you're interested in is speed, then sure, most armours are pointless. But that's not how I play, I diversify the roles - some girls are supposed to be fast, while others are tanks or RPS. I don't believe in 100% Eldar warrior squads. :)
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You plan to get hit? I certainly plan to avoid getting hit.
That must be why you use all these heaviest armors! :)
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That must be why you use all these heaviest armors! :)
No, there's a completely different reason why I use them.
I use them in case I get hit accidentally... not planned. Can't be more different reason than that.
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Hi Eddie! Maybe would you write a a massive guida/walthrough and then put it online at the mod portal? In .doc and/ord pdf? If so pleas emind to have a look here. (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4102.0.html) ;)
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Hi Eddie! Maybe would you write a a massive guida/walthrough and then put it online at the mod portal? In .doc and/ord pdf? If so pleas emind to have a look here. (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4102.0.html) ;)
Rather than the mod portal, etc, may I suggest the online Bootypedia wiki as a great place for this? https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Piratez
There are two pages badly in need of help (still blank at this time) under guides and tips.
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Tactics_(Piratez) (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Tactics_(Piratez))
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Strategy_(Piratez) (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Strategy_(Piratez))
It has been my intent to sort of coallate the information here in the forums to build out these pages, and it has also sparked me to start my own campaign to gain more first hand experience.
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For an indepth guide I lack the knowledge, as so far I'm still on my first playthrough and not that far in. But I can put what I know on the wiki, sure (might take a few days before I find the time to do it).
Also, strategy is based on playstyle. I find the warrior armor so op that I nerved it for my game. Also, I never produced a single black powder bomb, because anything that is armored tends to have a high hostage value so I don't kill them but capture them. So I would be an expert for capture strategies, not for leathal approaches.
I did mention the power of the black power bomb, but not in the research section. I will add that.
That reminds me, I should write something about flag use. The flag features heavily in my playstyle.
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It has been my intent to sort of coallate the information here in the forums to build out these pages, and it has also sparked me to start my own campaign to gain more first hand experience.
I had the same idea for awhile but since I haven't had time to really play and SO MUCH has changed so quickly, I can't help but feel adding anything from past versions would just frustrate/disappoint new players of new versions as strategies/"bugs" are patched out or adjusted.
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I had the same idea for awhile but since I haven't had time to really play and SO MUCH has changed so quickly, I can't help but feel adding anything from past versions would just frustrate/disappoint new players of new versions as strategies/"bugs" are patched out or adjusted.
Very good point.
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If something gets patched out, I always try to add the capability back at a higher tech level. But yeah, massive changes to early game will be added in a couple of months (probably).
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I'm assuming this is the best place to ask questions.
I'm having a lot of trouble actually catching ships. I'm a few months in and almost all of them are 2000 or 3000 speed and I just have the default bonavara thing and it can't come close to catching them. Am I supposed to have built a hunter killer or something by now? I haven't been able to find all the components to make one.
I've been trying to respond to as many mutant pogroms as possible, but I've started running into the deep ones and the blue guys seem invulnerable to all my weapons and explosives, so I've had to give up and run away from those. I've equipped some acid grenades and stuff and I'm gonna try that soon, but now a competing base has come up and I'm just completely outclassed- some of their weapons seem to one shot almost all of my people, and I have no way to deal with the psy attacks.
Have I severely mismanaged everything so far? :P
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Welcome, Pete! I know the feeling! The first run at Piratez can be very challenging, and you can feel lost at every turn.
Shippings: Many of them will fly faster than you. The trick is learning how to catch them when they land. Many enemy missions involve some time on the ground. If you can tail them with the Bonaventura, until they land you are in good shape. If not, try to anticipate where they are going and patrol with the Bonny in those areas. If there was a recent mission in South Africa, chances are this next one might go there too.
As soon as you can afford it, hire some Pigeons to help you cover where there is enemy activity. You can use the Charts to see enemy activity in both regions and countries. With 2 or 3 pigeons, you can cover alot of this, then send the Bonny out to scout, when a contact does appear.
The next tier of surveillance, is Spy Zeppelins. Once you are able to construct them, its not difficult to put almost every land mass under surveillance.
As far as the Hunter-Killer for a fast interceptor, you can hire out the Shark Jetbike. It has been my scout for the entirety of my current campaign as soon as I could afford one. I have pretty much stuck to only going after landed vessels in the first year, and it has served me well.
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That's a really useful post, thank you! I haven't noticed ships landing at all, maybe I've just not been paying enough attention.
When you say to hire some pigeons, do you just mean buying them at the black market?
I currently don't have anything to research and I don't think I've got spy zeppelins yet. I was playing on the 0.98 release if that changes anything, but I'm updated now.
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Yeah, hire the Pigeons on the black market. They help a bunch!
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Continuing on avian thingos.....
Now that you start with one, a mention on parrots and scouting might be worthwhile too. It's a basic tactic, but now you have it straight away. And it can carry a pre-primed smoke grenade/explody grenade/bandages/some x-smokes as well. Truly, 'tis the king of birds.
It might die to a swift breeze, or go unconscious to a puff of smoke, but 120TUs and flight is amazing for a starting unit. Cue the nerf bat!
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Things required to build a hunter killer:
The only things you need to find is the ship engine and the slave AI. The other things you need to buy on the black market. You need to research contacts: smugglers to get access to fusion torch clips. The other materials you can buy right from the start.
You should be able to build a hunter killer in the second month. You find plenty of ship engines and slave AIs. If you think you don't have the material for a hunter killer, carefully check what you need and then check the black market again.
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I want to ask you guys for some input.
I would like to add some info about interception strategies and what missions to take, but I don't really know what is a good strategie here. What I did so far is try everything and if it didn't work out reload. So let's discuss:
- Interceptions
Which targets do you go after in the beginning? What craft do you use and how many? What weapons do you use? Do you buy the expansive missiles or not? Is it a better strategy to not shoot down shippings and just go after landed ones?
My experiance so far for shooting down fighters: One hunterkiller with seagull missiles does more than two with just cannons, because dps is so high your hunterkiller can get destroyed before he gets close enough to use the cannons. But the seagulls are so damn expansive that is is not worth it to shoot down a fighter with them. So I send the the bonny first to tank damage and the hunterkiller like two seconds later. Unlike in vanilla, damage is not split over all attacking craft.
I find it a bit odd that it is more economic to let your craft be shot to pieces than to use the expensive missiles. Repairs should cost resources too.
- Research
I find it hard to think of a good strategy for what to research after the initial topics. So far I've had no "this item changes EVERYTHING" moment. I've looted stuff that really made a difference. Notable things I got through research so far are aye phone, stun grenades, tranquilizer manufacturing (Stun ammo for the harpoon. You find some, but not enough) and grav harness. The other things were more like nice improvements, but not game changing. So far my research strategy has been mostly about trying to minimize total reseach times by getting as much as possible from interrogations, but I'm unsure if that is the right strategy. For most research topics that can be gained through interrogation but also by researching the item (weapons mostly), the interrogation takes less time than researching the item directly. You save research time, but you cannot control what topics you will get.
The gun almanachs and data disks research pretty fast. But how many do you get? I haven't found any old books so far. Maybe it's a better strategy to only research what you really need, and for the rest wait until you get it through a data disk / gun almanach?
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- Interceptions
I don't go after anything in the first year. Nothing. Only landed ships. I hire a jetbike when I can afford one to id and tail contacts. Then send the Bonny when they land. The reason I do this is to afford painful Hideout Defenses. I'm just to chicken to do bring on a retaliation, until I've got solid defenses in place.
- Research
Research is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. There is so much.
I've broken out all of the topics you can discover from consumables (books, discs, etc) on the new Bootypedia Research page here. (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Research_%28Piratez%29)
There is also a link to all the topics that prisoners will give up.
In my current campaign for early to mid game, I bee-lined for a few topics:
*Hyperwave Decoders, as they may Shipping encounters much more survivable
*Interrogation, for all of the tech gateways
*Studies to start my Dedicated Research Base
*Forgery (Mint) for strong cash flow
Aside from that, I've pretty much ignored Gauss, Laser, and Craft techs in favor of Armor, interesting weapons and lore. Tons and tons of interrogations. 2 prisons in the first base, 2 in a second, and 1 in my Research base. I've now exhausted most of the talking points and enslave and rob the others.
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Interesting layout but are the 4 corridor/traps needed after the second ring is built? Wouldn't only one be more efficient? And is such an expensive base worth the investment? Most things seem quick in the default 15 lab.
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The corridors/traps are indeed optional. They could maximize be further utilized as studies etc. I just added some notes that explored this very thing.
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Research_(Piratez)#Notes (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Research_(Piratez)#Notes)
Are they worth the investment?? Good question, and it may be overkill.
The fact that some Key Techs cost 200-500 are what made me want to create a base that could crank through higher techs quickly.
I have a phase 3 base up at the moment (Beginning of Year Two) with about 28 brainers, and I do have a 200 pt research available that I have been putting off, while I've been cleaning up lasers and craft techs.
It may be that in late game, so many of the other techs have been exhausted, that these final, huge techs could perk along with 15 researchers for a month, etc., without too much hardship.
Edit: And an even more efficient design would be to place an access lift in the corner and build from there. I started in the middle to speed available build times.
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ivandogovich, thank you for your input. I was hoping to get more opinions, but it seems other people are as clueless as I am.
So for interceptions... attacking only landed craft is a viable option apparently. What shippings would you miss out on? So far I can think of smugglers that can have really good loot. Can you identify them in the aerial combat screen? I only had one so far and can't remember. Other thing I can think of is small fighters that so far are my only source of gauss pistols and craft gauss cannon. The craft gauss cannon you don't need when you only attack landed craft and the gauss pistol is not that much of a game changer.
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Smugglers are shown as JAMMED, but hyper-waves help a bunch. They also don't have as much good loot as one would expect, the only really useful things I got was 2 snuffy rifles, boom gun, and rare sniper gauss, everything else I could get elsewhere (like banana clips, rpgs, and one smuggling ship full of x-grog).
2603, March
-Interceptions
No. Nada. Too dangerous. I only have bonny, shark jetbike and deliverator in my possession, so most good ships are out of my reach, and rest will land anyway. Also, retaliation. It is bad, and I don't want more than 1 retal\mo.
-Research
Depends on player heavily, I only now started expanding in craft weapons direction, but I have some basic voodoo, guardian armour, and ability to manufacture laser ammunition.
Interrogations\gun almanachs\data disks are useful and quick source of info, and sometimes are necessary. They also can give access to some nifty stuff at black market (indirectly).
I can't really advice anything, just do what you think is best for you.
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Added the spreadsheet I use to calculate melee weapon damage.
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Note some smugglers do land just not all. Smugglers are very rng. They can have almost anything but its small amounts so it only really pays off when its rare goods like guns, data discs and similar items.
Some fighters do land if they spawn for missions like survey or conversion.
The only real thing you would miss out on hitting only landed craft would be gold freighters since they never land. However without hyperwave you can't tell a gold transport is active so....
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Yes, it seems attacking only landed craft is a viably playing tactic. You save on expenses for interceptors, craft ammo and hangars. Also you don't need the associated research.
Dioxine, what do you think about this? Is it good that way or should there be more risk/reward type shippings that you would have to shoot down but risk a retaliation?
It feels not very pirate like that you don't use the guns on your ships. I like it that you have to think about ammo cost (missiles are damn expensive) vs potential loot.
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Landed only is a viable path early and even good play funds wise. But at some point you have to shoot down craft to expand your pool of capture targets to advance tech. A landed only run is possible if you get bases from every faction but then you need minimum one base per faction in addition to affording buying leaders from the mercs(do you have 550 million laying around?). I feel at some point you must step up into the air game and spend money to make money/progress at anything more then a snails pace. Game is a long one as it is, slowing yourself down when you can afford to play the air game strikes me as silly.
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Hard to say since I never pay much attention to the danger of shooting ships down. In all probability you're advancing slower though (less funds), and the auto-crackdowns will come sooner or later anyway. Better to be ready IMO. Air combat isn't that expensive either, just don't buy any craft weapons at the black market unless rich or desperate.
Still. Should I reduce the number of landings? Would it feel more right? It's actually strange that all these freighters land so often in an open field...
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later there are ships with sway gov mission, where a success cuts your funding. According to bootypedia you have to shoot them down before they land.
So you have to tech up your interceptor to fight frigates/terrorships.
I lost 4 founders because of this (try to shoot down 4-5 large ships at the same time..).
Maybe there's a possibility to prevent this mission before happening (take down hideouts?) don't know.
I know I have to finish this game quick or research large-ships-killer fast or I loose within a year.. or two.. or three.. *cough*
..And I'm in year 2603 or 4.. Those missions type started late
Well.. Okay. You have a lot of time until this happening but be prepared..
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Sway Govt missions are fully preventable only through research.
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It's actually strange that all these freighters land so often in an open field...
I think the number of landings vs shootings is good. Maybe you just lock the freighters to "land" in the more industrial/urban tile-sets like the dockyard? Even the farm is alright thematically, if perhaps a bit too rich due to apple occurrence.
Sway government runs are a much more limited threat in this mod compared to vanilla. Here the governments are not the primary funding. Hell they just offset maintenance and even then a single government or 3 are not particularly valuable. I lost i believe 2 nations in my current run before i got to the prevention tech. I didn't feel any appreciable pinch in funds except when i was forced for a few month period to rely on seagull missiles because i had lost my primary factory base to a stargod landing that came up pure grey robes.
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The large % of landing crafts (especially in the first mission) creates odd things, like you being more of a raider than a pirate (the naval/ship combat part is quite small compared to the ground combat).
It might be interesting to reduce the time spent landed so they are harder to catch, or the number of landings, of the type of UFOs that land, but for stuff like the research mission it still makes sense to land. Crackdowns are harsh, but with the mind shield being early tech now, it might be possible to avoid it. It might also be possible to tweak down the likelihood of retaliations when shooting down UFOs.
I would welcome more air combat, but the diminution of engine/fuel needs to be considered (it's already been cut, and might need to be increased if you are supposed to shoot down UFOs more often, depriving you of that). Assaulting crashed UFOs with blown up engines also makes battles easier (which is nice), and makes the few with intact engines feel like winning the lottery.
The bonny is also quite flimsy (and losing it with all the gals and gear is a game breaker), so maybe the civilian crafts will need to be tweaked too. But in many cases, especially with a Hunter-Killer as backup, I think it is doable to crash a bunch of UFOs. Then you'd get the choice: more pigeons/zeppelins for radar coverage or more interceptors?
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I don't feel the bonny is particularly frail at 300 hp, the real issue in the air is armament, your simply out-ranged by everything except the lightest of ufo's. And only your initial charger laser even equals them. You take alot of fire just closing and the bonny has no missile slots. Even the first pure interceptor with seagulls has a better chance with less 2/3 the hp. Granted it has some dodge the bonny dosen't. But its the missile alpha at equal or longer range to light ufos that makes the real difference.
The 2 light 2 heavy config is very hard to make use of early. The first real upgrade is the 105 rockets but that's only one tier before stingrays and a fairly marginal upgrade at, 5 dmg per shot, 5km range, and 10% accuracy over starter spikes. Light slots blow at anything but finishing until laser tech. The slots just do not perform well until mid to late game at which point your vaporizing anything that's a reasonable match hp wise for the bonny. And by then quite possibly you could upgrade the bonny.
The only real use i have been able to put the bonny to is downing freighters. interceptors with missiles can struggle with a freighters high hp. Freighters also have very short range and low power guns so the bonny can unload the full clip of the charger laser in safety before closing and only suffering for 15 km to bring spike rockets and the 25mm to bear at which point superior RoF ends the battle very rapidly.
It something like strapping AtA weapons to a C-130. does it work: yes. Do i want anything else at all: yep.
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Fair enough, quite flimsy in the early game, when taking on enemy craft with inferior weapons, as in not tough enough to compensate and survive the fight without significant repairs or even a risk of being blown up (and who wants to risk it with all the gals and gear on board?). It is quite possible that it becomes better later when its dps/range allows it to not have to tank as much damage.
Downing freighters is indeed something the bonny can do, by virtue of cannons having much more ammo and much more total damage than missile, at the cost of dps and range. I had a spreadsheet to calculate all that, but it is quite out of date now and I have just restarted (and that game is not progressing very fast).
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Realistically freighters are the bonny's only niche in the air something else dosen't do better cheaper and safer. The bonny is a transport with guns and not anything else.
Frankly some of the air stats in this mod perplex me. Why would you send one gal to do anything on the ground? Why is the most theoretical(not functional) damage for much the game on transports?
I like the diversity and the utility craft are an excellent addition, but sometimes i look at a craft stat and try to conceive of a useful case for it and fail.
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You can build a hunter killer in the second month, and from then on you wouldn't attack with the bonny alone. With these two you can shoot down most things with just light weapons. You will take damage, sure, but you can do it.
If you consider playability in irongal mode, this is probably too risky as you cannot afford to loose the bonny. You would need a different lead attack craft than the bonny and the hunter killers can't do that. The swordfish is probably the earliest available craft to fill that role. The swordfish has some limitations, the most important to me is that it can only use heavy weapons. At the point where you get it your only heavy weapons are spike rockets and these are too expensive to use regularly. If the swordfish had one light weapon slot that would make it much more useful. If it's role is indeed that of a lead attack craft, the related attributes (hp, armor, repair rate) could use a slight boost to make that role more obvious to the player.
Concerning cargo ship landings: Shippings with really valuable cargo like supply ships would only land in a guarded port. It's a limitation of the engine that we can't have port attacks for landed ships (or maybe we can?). These shippings would be most vulnerable during their voyage and not when they are in port, so this is where pirates would strike at them.
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In historical piracy attacks on "landed" craft where not particularly uncommon. Tall ship era vessels routinely stopped at unguarded(but for the crew themselves) locations to take on water, get the crew fresh air, etc. Catching a ship at anchor with some crew ashore was an ideal situation for the pirate.
Even attacks on fortified locations where not unheard off. The pirates can't take a standup fight against a full garrison or a true warship but neither can those forces be combat ready at all times and quite often take some minutes to even be ready. How much could you steal with say 10-15 mins lightly opposed access if you had 20 some experienced folk?
Even most fortified ports of the Tall ship era had rather small garrisons. What made the garrisons relevant was the fortification they held. No ship afloat could match a fort for raw weight of fire but neither could the fort withstand determined direct troop attack. Most port fortification served more as a deterrent then anything else. To engage a fort was to risk your ship and ships where very valuable.
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Bottom line is:
From the discussion about interception strategie I gather that you don't miss much if you only go after landed craft early on. So there is not much pressure to get better interceptors and weapons. What I would like there to be is some really jucy targets that require some investment into interception capabilities so that when that shipping comes up you would say "Damn, I wish I already had that better interceptor/weapon because now I don't have enough to get that shipping". Makes it more rewarding when you finally get the tech.
To me, interceptor tech should be something that enables you to take more missions.
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Isn't that what gold transports are?
(And eventually, of course, you need a way to shoot down the hotrods with faction leaders, although that's more about speed than firepower.)
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In historical piracy attacks on "landed" craft where not particularly uncommon. Tall ship era vessels routinely stopped at unguarded(but for the crew themselves) locations to take on water, get the crew fresh air, etc. Catching a ship at anchor with some crew ashore was an ideal situation for the pirate.
Even attacks on fortified locations where not unheard off. The pirates can't take a standup fight against a full garrison or a true warship but neither can those forces be combat ready at all times and quite often take some minutes to even be ready. How much could you steal with say 10-15 mins lightly opposed access if you had 20 some experienced folk?
Even most fortified ports of the Tall ship era had rather small garrisons. What made the garrisons relevant was the fortification they held. No ship afloat could match a fort for raw weight of fire but neither could the fort withstand determined direct troop attack. Most port fortification served more as a deterrent then anything else. To engage a fort was to risk your ship and ships where very valuable.
Very good points. Except modern-day garrisons would have tanks and helicopters... and the game engine doesn't support these... This leads to a point... add stationary 'ufos' that shoot (forts), and limit the number of freighter landings (but not remove them), so the Bonaventura is actually useful for air combat :) It's sort of an armed merchant ship... very good against other merchant ships, but bad against fast boats, and even worse against warships...
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As to Tanks and helicopters in garrisons, the response time problem actually gets worse the more advanced you get beyond "grab pants,gun, and pointy bit, pants optional". Granted power projection has improved but not response time. Our little AI tanketts on the other hand much faster to respond provided the docking station isn't too complex.
I like the "fort" idea but i wouldn't make them immobile just slow and sufficiently meaty that interceptors are a poor choice. Don't know about fewer freighters landing. I believe the point was more why is it stopping in random forest 248j when it has the demonstrated capacity to loop the planet/travel to another. Who signing for a freighter worth of goods in explodey purple jungle? Catching a freighter at some settlement no matter the dinkyness feels logically better.
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I believe the point was more why is it stopping in random forest 248j when it has the demonstrated capacity to loop the planet/travel to another. Who signing for a freighter worth of goods in explodey purple jungle? Catching a freighter at some settlement no matter the dinkyness feels logically better.
Maybe but game doesn't support this, really... because it doesn't take into account if the freighter was shot down or did it land. It always takes the terrain involved from globe's texture. So the logical assumption was, if we can't differentiate, then proper landings (ie. in settlements) are off-limits - security's too strong, probably.
Maybe their response time isn't that good, especially against invisible ships, but they still would have at least bunkers, and few dozen (if not hundreds, depends on many factors) extra security. Again, game makes it impossible to differentiate, so ground force at the LZ cannot be made different than ground force at crash site.
One solution would be Freighter spawning a 'terror site' where it lands. Then you could choose, dogfight and a battle in the wild (an a potential Crackdown), or a much harder battle at a landing spot. Problem: these landing spots would be immediately visible to a player, no matter their radars.
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A modified "terror" every now and again would be interesting. Freighters set to no landing would give the boony a clear task in the air. The player seeing the "port raids" i dont feel is too bad if you would tie it to something akin to the mansions or the russian files. Maybe data discs have "shipping schedule" get one free? Or off guild Reps? Or maybe mutant alliance "spies". As long as the mechanic is gated and explained to the player as to what it represents, the player likely dosen't give a toss of the backend execution.
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Good idea about opening it with a research topic, so everything is laid out and explained beforehand. I wonder if I should do the same with regular Mutant Pogroms (so the player won't be dragged into this unwillingly and unwittingly), maybe as the preq to contact the mutant alliance.
Now then, this will of course mean a lot of work with preparing landing site maps. But the result would be worthwile I think.
I even consider starting the game earlier in tech, making repairing of Bonavetura your first goal. The trick would be, there would be several Bonaventura variants to choose from and each would open up a different fabular path, with varrying missions (so the player can be evil, or be an idealistic rebel, etc). So far this is the only mechanic that would allow to choose a path - making it dependant on an unique starting base item that can be used to manufacture one of several things.
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I wouldn't bother with gating the pogroms unless your considerably regressing starting tech. Most players of the mod will be familiar with the concept. Rare is the player that hasn't at least a passing familiarity with what is a core mechanic in UFO, TFTD, and the new games. At least that ends up here.
If you did regress the start to a pre first transport state gating the pogrom is necessary to prevent the score penalty from being merely punitive.
A morality/play-style branching would be interesting. The "evil" branch has more to do with the dark ones(easier destruction voodoo, hellblades, etc). The "good" branch has better non lethal gear and better communion voodoo rewards(less plody converted cyclops).
A savenger "roadwarrior" style with faster craft repair and more things like the junkmaster and focus on low tech gear. However less craft hitpoints and miss out on higher tech ammo.
A brainer "tech" style with easier high tech access by eliminating some prerequisites. But you pay a premium in production costs and need to build "experiments" so sacrifice runt time.
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I dont know about engine limitations, but would it be possible to have different Terrain types for city-landed ships ?
I.e. if a shipping lands on a City and you engage, you could get a Terror (progrom) type MAP (not Mission) instead of still chasing engineers through the Woods ?
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@legionof1: Fully agreed. I had some of those concepts myself. Not sure about rolling back the tech, though. It might feel too much like Temple of Trials in Fallout 2. That can be of course mitigated by making it less linear. More important concern is starting experience. As of right now, a player can go and start blowing stuff right away, have some fun with the game, try various funky guns, and have a quick blast playing a few missions. No need to go too deep right away. I could of course make the early-tech game optional (a mod), but that'd produce its own problems (inter-mod communication issues, more work in debugging). The plus would be, the tech progress being more logical and intuitive, and much more possible branching and vagaries.
@AncientSion: Yes it is an engine limitation. The only difference between landing site and crash site is a script that randomly explodes the engines. Terrain is always taken from globe's data. To have a specific mission, you need it to be a mission site. Naturally terrains ALONE can be added if freighters had their own, very special set of coordinates linked to terrains inside globe's data. However just swapping the terrain doesn't seem worth it. Extra security and extra goods should be present, because it'd be a reasonably large (if quite open) map, containing the landing, its facilities, and a part of a settlement. Also innocent bystanders are likely to be present (in reality, unarmed hostiles who can even be set to pass out after 20 turns so you don't have to catch them to auto-grab all loot).
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You could put the branching post bonny but require the bonny to build. The player then has a choice to trade advantages for their play-style for grounding the transport for many runt hours. Initial experience is preserved and its only if the player wishes that they invoke the alternate paths. Never build the super bonny and you have the vanilla tree which the base against which the branching is balanced. Or give the player a skyranger for landings until they build the bonny. Early detection limits how far and how fast you need to move the troops.
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A weak, but otherwise workable landing craft (6-10 gals, global reach, half-decent speed) would naturally be given upon the start, regardles of scenario.
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I like the "fort" idea but i wouldn't make them immobile just slow and sufficiently meaty that interceptors are a poor choice. Don't know about fewer freighters landing. I believe the point was more why is it stopping in random forest 248j when it has the demonstrated capacity to loop the planet/travel to another. Who signing for a freighter worth of goods in explodey purple jungle? Catching a freighter at some settlement no matter the dinkyness feels logically better.
My assumption was that many of those landings were to supply or pick up from hidden caches, or to contact clandestine agents in the area. The hills terrain, for instance, often has caves and the like, which will often have enemies in them; it's reasonable to assume that they landed in order to contact that agent or something and deliver or pick up something from them (or the people themselves.)
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Or a mechanical failure. Yeah good assumption, but such happenings should be rather rare with regular Freighter and Hopper lines.