OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Released Mods => Brutal AI => Topic started by: Alpha Centauri Bear on December 12, 2023, 02:12:37 am
-
Here is code change to place alien armor and damage modifiers in ufopaedia. If anyone is interested I can create PR on that.
-
Here is code change to place alien armor and damage modifiers in ufopaedia. If anyone is interested I can create PR on that.
1) The best solution is: second page. Don't overload a slide with information.
2) Be better to make UI subtopic. Because it is very conterintuitive to seek/discuss for UI layouts in AI section.
3) Please play one of megamods, it already has been implemented quite nicely in prehistoric era
-
Here is code change to place alien armor and damage modifiers in ufopaedia. If anyone is interested I can create PR on that.
Sure, go ahead.
-
And which armor would you show for let's say Lobsterman autopsy?
There are several of them.
Do you take one at random?
-
And which armor would you show for let's say Lobsterman autopsy?
There are several of them.
Do you take one at random?
I introduced a reference parameter to specify which one to show. So it is for mod designer discretion.
You are right that there are many armors alien can wear. In addition to that, actual armor thickness varies with the difficulty. I was trying to solve this issue for myself too.
My thought is that this is helpful info for player to plan the combat. However, it should not necessarily be exact. Slight variations are fine. Besides, specific specimen armor can be observed in combat. Whereas damage resistances should be more or less same for different armor levels within species.
Yes, I am aware that armor values are free to modify by modder and they can go crazy with making say Lobsterman navigator armor completely-completely different from one of the soldier. I am open for suggestions.
Another option is to list a range of values from multiple armors. Like say, front armor: 40-60, etc.
Another option is to list multiple armors with their names: (soldier, technician, etc.). Will be a long list.
Another option is to add this info somehow to the MC Reader screen in combat. That would be the most precise information.
Or show approximate information in ufopaedia and exact during combat.
-
1) The best solution is: second page. Don't overload a slide with information.
2) Be better to make UI subtopic. Because it is very conterintuitive to seek/discuss for UI layouts in AI section.
3) Please play one of megamods, it already has been implemented quite nicely in prehistoric era
Thank you for suggestions.
1. Sorry. I didn't understand about second page. Are you saying it is possible to make multipage article in ufopaedia? Can you point me to the guide, please?
2. By subtopic you mean extra entries in ufopaedia next to autopsy? Or can they be actually nested in the list?
3. Yes, I am aware of the combat analysis feature of XCF. Unfortunately, it is not in OXCE. I don't know how to port it. Maybe I will when I understand how.
-
Sure, go ahead.
Please grant me permission to push feature branch and create PR.
-
Abyss and Meridian,
I think you are right. It is probably would be much more straightforward to just introduce articles for each alien/terrorist armor in game. May give them some research requirements to appear too.
Not sure how to place them in orderly fashion, though. Maybe just create another section under "Alien creatures"? Like "Alien creature armors"?
-
3. Yes, I am aware of the combat analysis feature of XCF. Unfortunately, it is not in OXCE. I don't know how to port it. Maybe I will when I understand how.
of course it is in OXCE
(where else would it be? XCF uses OXCE)
-
of course it is in OXCE
(where else would it be? XCF uses OXCE)
Sorry for my misunderstanding. For some reason I thought this is a screen shown during combat. I just discovered it is a simple ufopaedia article. Thank you for clarification.
-
https://github.com/Xilmi/OpenXcom/pull/18
This change also requires adding alien rank ufopedia articles to ruleset. I can add them to the standard so they are preset at deployment. Otherwise, this will be a feature other modders can implement.
-
https://github.com/Xilmi/OpenXcom/pull/18
This change also requires adding alien rank ufopedia articles to ruleset. I can add them to the standard so they are preset at deployment. Otherwise, this will be a feature other modders can implement.
What is exact purpose of this?
Raw OXCE is rarely used, major mods usually have the framework: you get corpse, you get it researched -> you get stats via two pages. One is autopsy, next is armors and resistances.
2. By subtopic you mean extra entries in ufopaedia next to autopsy? Or can they be actually nested in the list?
No, I meant new topic for OpenXcom Forum » Modding » Released Mods, or better, OpenXcom Forum »Modding »Work In Progress and discuss implemented things with more players and modders. There are AI talks. Until you want only 1% of proposed target auditory to see what you propose and do.
Alternatively, it can be also a time to ask forum owners for a child board for Xilmi on this forum, because there's also different targeting mode and other things that are not strictly related to AI, but developed for Brutal OXCE fork
-
Xilmi,
Now when you merged my PR, do you want to add these alien armor articles right into base game so they are available to all mods on top of it?
Or leave it to ruleset modders? In this case it will probably be unnoticed for many.
-
Xilmi,
Now when you merged my PR, do you want to add these alien armor articles right into base game so they are available to all mods on top of it?
Or leave it to ruleset modders? In this case it will probably be unnoticed for many.
Since this is a non-standard GUI change I would recommend a .rul flag to enable this so that the mod developer or by default this feature is not enabled and explicitly enabled per *.rul file for globally through advanced settings.
One reason is that I think that X-Com Files already provides all the battle and armor stats for enemies and NPCs once researched, but as separate UFOPedia pages. I would find it real annoying to have the info duplicated on multiple pages from ones that X-Com Files provides and on the Enemy's main graphic page. Also, although this is a neat idea, how do you address what Meridian' pointed out about an enemy that can have multiple armor's or stats?
-
Since this is a non-standard GUI change I would recommend a .rul flag to enable this so that the mod developer or by default this feature is not enabled and explicitly enabled per *.rul file for globally through advanced settings.
As I understand, this is just a capability right now, so 'off' by default. Thus an extra variable to enable things that needs to be implemented separately to work at all will do nothing but sow confusion. And AC Bear is asking if a ruleset mod should be added on top.
Also, although this is a neat idea, how do you address what Meridian' pointed out about an enemy that can have multiple armor's or stats?
No enemy can have multiple armours or stats. One enemy race can have different ranks with different armours/stats. And that's exactly what AC Bear's change handles in the screenshots by having separate articles for Aquatoid Navigators, Commanders etc.
-
Since this is a non-standard GUI change I would recommend a .rul flag to enable this so that the mod developer or by default this feature is not enabled and explicitly enabled per *.rul file for globally through advanced settings.
Sorry for confusion. There are actually two things there.
The UI change in the code itself is just an addition to what was already there. This alone won't change look and feel for users.
The actual set of articles with alien armor is what needs to be added to ruleset.
One reason is that I think that X-Com Files already provides all the battle and armor stats for enemies and NPCs once researched, but as separate UFOPedia pages. I would find it real annoying to have the info duplicated on multiple pages from ones that X-Com Files provides and on the Enemy's main graphic page.
Agree. Some ruleset modders may already implement it as article pages. That is why I am asking if this should be in core ruleset. I am fine with any way it goes.
Also, although this is a neat idea, how do you address what Meridian' pointed out about an enemy that can have multiple armor's or stats?
I am just listing actual ARMORS articles for each of them, how many they are. I also assign a title to the article related to which lowest rank this armor is usually encountered in. I think this is intuitive enough but open for suggestions.
-
Omg, did any of you even try it?
@Alpha: modders will sure notice it, you made it incompatible with OXCE (and their mods, e.g. TWoTS)
@0xebjc: XCF will be unaffected, he changed only TFTD-style armor articles
@juku: it's on by default and there is no "extra variable"
@alpha again: users will also definitely notice the look and feel change... I did... just compare before and after picture attached
-
As I understand, this is just a capability right now, so 'off' by default. Thus an extra variable to enable things that needs to be implemented separately to work at all will do nothing but sow confusion. And AC Bear is asking if a ruleset mod should be added on top.
No enemy can have multiple armours or stats. One enemy race can have different ranks with different armours/stats. And that's exactly what AC Bear's change handles in the screenshots by having separate articles for Aquatoid Navigators, Commanders etc.
That is correct.
So reiterating once again. The change in the code I just pushed change UI in a minor way. I will put it under the flag to be off by default.
Yes, I am listing armor-rank for each race. Sure multiple ranks may have same armor but I think it is intuitive enough that lowest rank wearing such armor is shown. Of course, all ranks can be shown but this would be super duplication of info.
-
@alpha again: users will also definitely notice the look and feel change... I did... just compare before and after picture attached
Yep. You are right. Will put it under the flag.
-
Yep. You are right. Will put it under the flag.
Don't forget to show all 20 OXCE resistances in the compatibility mode, many mods are using them and you are ignoring half of them (e.g. LASER damage type in TWoTS from my example above).
In the non-compatibility mode, I'd recommend at least adding support for translations, instead of hardcoded English texts.
-
..., did any of you even try it?
@0xebjc: XCF will be unaffected, he changed only TFTD-style armor articles
Sorry for the confusion on my part... I did not try it and was just following the form conversations from here
And which armor would you show for let's say Lobsterman autopsy?
There are several of them.
Do you take one at random?
I missed the following:
Another option is to list multiple armors with their names: (soldier, technician, etc.). Will be a long list.
I do think this is a elegant solution to label each enemy type, soldier, engineer, etc. based off their different stats and or ranges.
@Alpha: modders will sure notice it, you made it incompatible with OXCE (and their mods, e.g. TWoTS)
I haven't played TWoTS yet, I'll have to look at what breaking changes this make to other mods, previously I've appreciated that BRUTAL has been backwards compatible with OXCE mods.
-
Don't forget to show all 20 OXCE resistances in the compatibility mode, many mods are using them and you are ignoring half of them (e.g. LASER damage type in TWoTS from my example above).
In the non-compatibility mode, I'd recommend at least adding support for translations, instead of hardcoded English texts.
Definitely. What's the translation support? Just the tr(label) method?
-
@Meridian
I see you are introducing some elements into TFTD article definition but not in the base class. Should I follow the same pattern and modify TFTD only?
void ArticleDefinitionTFTD::load(const YAML::Node &node, int listOrder)
{
ArticleDefinition::load(node, listOrder);
_type_id = (UfopaediaTypeId)(node["type_id"].as<int>(_type_id));
image_id = node["image_id"].as<std::string>(image_id);
if (image_id.find("_CPAL") != std::string::npos)
customPalette = true;
text_width = node["text_width"].as<int>(157); // 95% of these won't need to be defined, so let's give it a default
weapon = node["weapon"].as<std::string>(weapon);
}
-
Erm, if this is essentially just a new layout for TFTD-style armour articles - especially one that needs some extra work to regain other functionality like expanded damage types and multiple languages -, what exactly is the point of it? What does it do that a TFTD armour article does not? I thought perhaps it was the automatic resistance values, but this does not seem to be the case.
@juku: it's on by default and there is no "extra variable"
I meant it's 'off' in the sense that the game does not auto-populate the pedia with these, someone has to go and make the articles and until they do, this feature does nothing. Besides existing TFTD-style stuff, that is, but X-Com armours were never the point of this feature.
My brief spiel was supposed to say an extra variable is undesirable because of the above, but if this is indeed an alternate form of TFTD armours and not its own thing then, yes, a separate flag would be better.
-
Here you go.
https://github.com/Xilmi/OpenXcom/pull/20
Minimal changes.
Existing code is preserved.
New style is off by default.
Turned on by "custom: 1" field in the interface list.
-
Erm, if this is essentially just a new layout for TFTD-style armour articles - especially one that needs some extra work to regain other functionality like expanded damage types and multiple languages -, what exactly is the point of it? What does it do that a TFTD armour article does not? I thought perhaps it was the automatic resistance values, but this does not seem to be the case.
You are right that this is not a new business functionality. Just a different style of the armor article.
Here is why I think it is needed.
Current armor articles (personal armor, tanks) have info in them regarding the title item itself as it is researchable.
Alien rank armor articles do not as they are just pure armor stats informational thing not adding any more information about aliens themselves.
With this in mind, I would like to utilize whole page real estate to display as much list lines as possible.
Another (pure cosmetic changes) are:
Numbers are right aligned across whole list lines, which makes it look neat, I believe. In fact, I am quite surprised why they are not right aligned in other lists when this functionality already in the code?
Scrollbar is visible inside of the page. Currently it is not possible for user to know that there are more lines in the list just by looking at it.
IMHO user should be presented with scrollbar when it is needed and be able to scroll the article by clicking on scrollbar. I believe UI functionality and user convenience is above clean look. Besides, scrollbar design is pretty neat. I don't understand why it need to be hidden.
-
Example of left and right aligned numbers in list.
-
this discussion was split out into its separate thread