OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Released Mods => Brutal AI => Topic started by: Alpha Centauri Bear on December 16, 2023, 11:00:44 pm
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Graphs is a real UFO tracking tool! It shows you alien activity in not radar covered zone. An absolute life saver especially at higher difficulties when each score point matters.
Essentially, this is open information given to player. However, at times, it is difficult to visually extract it. Here is the proposal for QoL feature graphs improvement.
Now I am calling it QoL because in my experience all information I need is there it is just annoying to advance clocks by seconds and keep notepad and pencil ready to record these numbers over and over again. Let me know if you think it changes strategic game play. And, as always, it could be off by default if anyone does not like it.
Feature:
Alert player when UFO activity in region continues for considerable period of time assuming UFO reached its target region, not just passing by.
The time threshold or activity threshold and reminder frequency is up to configuration.
Also could be configured for activity happening outside of radar coverage to not annoy player late game.
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Please move this topic it to BrutalAI suggestion board. Thank you.
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If you wanna code something like that and it's all optional, I'm totally fine with including it.
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Good. Will work on it.
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Just tested it and immediately thought of something I'd like improved about it:
The button also centering on the region in question so the less geographically adept can learn something and actually know where it is.
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The button also centering on the region in question so the less geographically adept can learn something and actually know where it is.
Yep. Thought about this too. Does not work that easy pure logical.
1. There is no region "center" defined in this game. Some of them are so extended and/or of not right shape that even human would have difficulty defining center visually.
2. Quite often you will see more than one sector in the list. Which one to center on?
The #2 can be solved by just showing a single sector that reached the threshold. Without a list I mean - similar to UFO detection: i.e. one by one. If many, then each will trigger a popup.
Think about it. This notification is just a summary of what player sees in graphs. Less geographically adept will have equal problem interpreting it.
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Now I am thinking, the list is to excessive. Rarely player will see more than one-two anyway. And the purpose of this notification is just to draw attention and stop time. The rest of details they can get from graphs.
So maybe redo it to the single sector notification. These lists and scrolling is unnecessary complication. Should be in the size of a normal UFO detection.
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Thank you for you feedback. I think I have a good picture in my mind how it should look.
Separate notification per area. Notification pops up once area hidden activity reached threshold.
No lists, just a name of the area where it happened.
Not sure what to do with countries. They do not cover globe completely so there are blind spots. When activity happens in the area it also happens in the country so it kind of redundant. Yes, I know they intersect so showing country help to narrow the location down.
Probably just show are and optionally country if there is one.
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Eh. I think I am thinking too much. Let's keep it as is and see how it works out.
Works out for me quite well so far.
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Could you describe how the new and more detailed one is supposed to be read?
I'm admittedly a bit confused by what these numbers and colors mean.
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Numbers are cumulative continuous undetected UFO in the sector. Every 30 minutes 1 point is added to each undetected UFO in the sector.
This should be an exact number of points of graph increase (for undetected UFO only). Actually, I need to pick this value (1) from the ruleset instead of hardcoding.
Red: activity increases.
Blue: activity ceased (no undetected UFOs in the sector for the last 30 minutes).
Option values:
0 = disabled
1 = activity is displayed when it reaches the threshold of 10 (= 5 hours for a single undetected UFO)
2 = every change is displayed including activity ceased
I can add more description in option if it fits the screen. Feel free to suggest.
I can also remove number for option 1 to just show a long uninterrupted activity. This is probably how it should be to keep the lore. Option 2 is for nerds to catch every single UFO fart.
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Another option would be to show a popup for EACH sector with activity change instead of the list. I am open for both.
In this case such notification can include more textual description like: "alien activity increased in …".
We may end up with multitude of such popups every 30 minutes, though.
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The way Xenonauts did it was what I'd prefer. It didn't show a popup that interrupted the game but instead you got some text appearing on the globe in the region of the sighting, usually in the form of local news-reports.
"Military radar tracked unidentified object." "Farmers report finding of mutilated cattle."
Stuff like that.
If I were you, I'd implement it in a way that you personally think it would be most useful to you yourself. The mindset of trying to appease others can backfire. Doing it like you want and then others can decide whether to use it or not.
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Need to check on Xenonauts.
As for the implementation options: I like both options. The list is simple and global allowing to overview the whole globe activity. The one-by-one popup is more lore abiding similar to Xenonauts probably. Thinking …
The ability to stop the game and do not crawl by 5 seconds at a time is why I started all this. Player should be given an opportunity to slow down and investigate. Otherwise, these notifications just blink and disappear.
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Oh. Apparently, Xenonauts is its own game not even based on OpenXcom. I doubt I can replicate their functionality here (easily).
Besides, they have two major differences those make sense non stopping UFO sightings.
1. The map is FLAT!
2. The highest speed is about an hour a second, not a day a second as in xcom.
The game itself looks amazing. I now want to try it out.
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This is very spammy.
Also: When you switch from 2 back to 1 it keeps the color and number from 2. Even when starting a new game. I really don't think this is working as intended.
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Option 2 is intended to be as spammy as possible. Switch to 1.
Didn't understand about keeping color and number from 2. This is the same palette and colors. The only difference is that 1 is less spammy.
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Option 2 is intended to be as spammy as possible. Switch to 1.
Didn't understand about keeping color and number from 2. This is the same palette and colors. The only difference is that 1 is less spammy.
Are you on discord? I don't want to spam the forums with screenshots.
Also I forgot to fetch origin after the latest merge, so I need to look again whether that changes something.
Edit: Yeah, the update actually fixed the issue of 1 looking like 2 after switching back from 2 to 1.
What I meant is:
When I used 2 for a while and then went to 1. It would show all pop-ups with the last "Sightings"-number shown while 2 was still active. I just didn't know that it was supposed to mean sightings yet. But as I said, it's fixed now.
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I am a total noob on openxcom, however I used to play Xcom a lot (and on my last "return" I actually developed a very dirty, debugger mode version of this exact feature).
I love it that someone decided to code it properly and with nice UI.
Now - could you help me with the installation steps to get this feature?
I just bought the XCOM from GOG, it works fine. Now - how do I add openxom, so that I have this feature? Is it the OXCE? Or a nightly? :-) Any tips welcome.
Merci and cheers!
krakp
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Now - how do I add openxom, so that I have this feature? Is it the OXCE? Or a nightly? :-) Any tips welcome.
It's this one:
https://mod.io/g/openxcom/m/brutal-ai
Feature is enabled on Options=>Advanced=>BOXCE=>Geoscape=>Display hidden alien activity
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Brilliant - thank you :-).
Does this mod change the game in any significant way otherwise? What do I set to get the most vanilla experience (of course with bug fixes and maybe some convenience features, but nothing really to change the gameplay...)?
Thanks!
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Xilmi, I see you added some OXC, OXCE, BOXCE buttons in settings. Are they just filters?
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Xilmi, I see you added some OXC, OXCE, BOXCE buttons in settings. Are they just filters?
This was inherited from one of the recent OXCE-updates. I think Meridian made this change.
Previously the OXCE-options were all in a category called OXCE. So it wasn't clear what part of the game they'd impact.
Now they are in their own tab but with the correct categories.
Since the entire structure was changed I also kinda had to go with it and put all the options that are new with BOXCE in their own tab.
So yes, they are filters.
This definitely makes it easier to make it as vanilla as possible since it just means going to the BOXCE-tab and making sure all the options there are disabled.
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Brilliant - thank you :-).
Does this mod change the game in any significant way otherwise? What do I set to get the most vanilla experience (of course with bug fixes and maybe some convenience features, but nothing really to change the gameplay...)?
Thanks!
Yes, by default this also enables my new AI. So in order t make it the most vanilla experience gameplay-wise you'll probably want to disable the "Brutal AI".
Of course I'd also appreciate if you gave the new AI a try and give some feedback about it. ;)
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How do I set it all up? Are these UI config settings? Or some config files?
I would like to get a "warm-up" with the vanilla experience (but with the nice convenience features like radar coverage display, easier equipment distribution, etc). When I am "up to speed" again, I would probably go for the "Brutal AI" version - and then of course share my feedback :-)
So what do I need to enable/disable to get there? :-)
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This was inherited from one of the recent OXCE-updates. I think Meridian made this change.
Previously the OXCE-options were all in a category called OXCE. So it wasn't clear what part of the game they'd impact.
Now they are in their own tab but with the correct categories.
Since the entire structure was changed I also kinda had to go with it and put all the options that are new with BOXCE in their own tab.
So yes, they are filters.
This definitely makes it easier to make it as vanilla as possible since it just means going to the BOXCE-tab and making sure all the options there are disabled.
Is there a way to display them all without filtering for those who do not care filtering?
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How do I set it all up? Are these UI config settings? Or some config files?
I would like to get a "warm-up" with the vanilla experience (but with the nice convenience features like radar coverage display, easier equipment distribution, etc). When I am "up to speed" again, I would probably go for the "Brutal AI" version - and then of course share my feedback :-)
So what do I need to enable/disable to get there? :-)
You should probably start by playing (or at least reading the description of) the regular OpenXCom Extended before you go to its more advanced version, which is Brutal-OXCE.
To do this, just download and run OXCE: [2] OXCE v7.11 download & installation guide (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html).
Or, if you are going to play Brutal-OXCE, then disable the main "Brutal AI" setting.
Just to be clear:
OXC (OpenXCom) is a modern implementation of the XCom game with minimal changes and minor fixes.
OXCE (OpenXCom Extended) is a greatly expanded version of OXC, with many new features, bug fixes and user interface tweaks
BOXCE (Brutal OpenXCom Extended or Brutal AI) is an extended version of OXCE, with even more features and functionality added, as well as heavily redesigned and more complex AI behavior in ground battles.
Also, don't forget the huge number of mods (Released Mods (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,16.0.html)) that utilize all (or almost all) of OXCE's new features. In most cases these mods will work with BOXCE as well, but some logic errors or funny situations may occur.
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Is this feature (notifications based on activity graphs) available in the regular OpenXCom Extended? Or maybe in regular OpenXCom (unextended)? :)
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Is this feature (notifications based on activity graphs) available in the regular OpenXCom Extended? Or maybe in regular OpenXCom (unextended)? :)
Nope. This feature is present only in BOXCE.
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WOW - looks like there is whole new world of XCOM awaiting me :-). A lot of things to try out/test/learn :-D.
But for a start - if I wanted OpenXCom + the feature from this thread, is my understanding correct that I would need to:
1. install BOXCE on top of my original XCOM installation (that I bought from GOG)
2. Disable Brutal AI (is this enough to be back to "vanilla OXC"? or would I need to disable some more features?)
3. Enable the "UFO Activity Notification feature" (where would I find it?)
Does it sound right?
Then after I am a bit more up2speed I could get the fun of Brutal AI - is it possible to enable it "in the middle" of a game? Or do I need to start from 1999 with this on?
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3. Enable the "UFO Activity Notification feature" (where would I find it?)
I already answered this in my first reply to you:
"Feature is enabled on Options=>Advanced=>BOXCE=>Geoscape=>Display hidden alien activity"
Then after I am a bit more up2speed I could get the fun of Brutal AI - is it possible to enable it "in the middle" of a game? Or do I need to start from 1999 with this on?
It can be turned on and off at any time. Even mid-mission. So you are not hardlocking yourself into it.
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Is there a way to display them all without filtering for those who do not care filtering?
Good question. The filtering usually takes me an additional click but I have to do less scrolling. An option to not filter would be quite useful. If it exists, I don't know about it. Maybe we can ask Meridian.
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I already answered this in my first reply to you:
"Feature is enabled on Options=>Advanced=>BOXCE=>Geoscape=>Display hidden alien activity"
True that - sorry I missed it before :-).
Just coming back to #2
2. Disable Brutal AI (is this enough to be back to "vanilla OXC"? or would I need to disable some more features?)
?
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2. Disable Brutal AI (is this enough to be back to "vanilla OXC"? or would I need to disable some more features?)
Yes. There shouldn't be any gameplay-changes active other than that. Maybe a few QoL-things here and there. Like being able to queue a production-project without it taking away workshop-space before you assign an engineer. Other than that the default-ruleset should be as vanilla as regular OpenXCom.
Note that even there you have no item-limit for your crafts. If you want the item-limit from the Dos-game back, you'll have to explicitely enable it somewhere in the advanced options for OXC.
I guess this might be the biggest gameplay change they made a default over the Dos-version, as that severely impacts soldier-loadouts.
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This is really cool :-)
Yesterday I downloaded and installed BOXCE (thanks @Xilmi for the great youtube installation video).
I first tested the notifications:
@Alpha Centauri Bear: this feature was my dream since I understood the value of the Activity Graphs (especially in the early game with basically no radar coverage). I love the way you implemented it, it is very intuitive and I love the fact that you exclude the activity of the detected UFOs - this allows to go after the "undetected" ones only :-)
I tested it in the setting #2 (so showing all the changes every 30 min - like the Activity Graphs do) and I loved it!! However, I noticed a small thing that makes your version "better" than the Activity Graphs - the graphs "rescale" after some time (after you reach the multiple of 90). So the later you are in the game, the less granular your graphs get - no matter how good you are at reading them, the visuals only get updated every 2 values (in the range of 90-180), 3 values for 180-270 etc.
So maybe it would be "fair" to also have a setting (#3?) allowing to scale in the same way, ie. show every point of activity in the range 0-90, every 2 points in 90-180, etc.
But as I wrote - this feature it totally cool anyway and I will use it even without this update :-)
@Xilmi: I also tested the Brutal UI and what can I say.... It is Brutal :-) . I used to play Xcom on Superhuman, but BUI is just a different enemy altogether.... I am not quite sure if I am ready for it yet :-). But it will definitely be tested deeper at some moment.
By the way - I read that also OXCE has different AI than the original XCOM - how would you compare them?
Is OXCE AI "easier" than XCOM?
What I also noticed is that I can enable/disable BAI as a MOD and also in the BOXCE settings: what is the difference? Also - if I disable it in the BOXCE settings - is the first option a "main/master" one controlling all the others? Or do I actually need to disable them one by one? The UI does not seem to be giving clear tips on this :-). Will I get weird behaviors if I enable just some of them? Are there dependencies?
Anyway guys - you are doing a great job here - this game is a great fun to play (even more than XCOM - I wouldn't believe I would ever say this :-)).
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By the way - I read that also OXCE has different AI than the original XCOM - how would you compare them?
Is OXCE AI "easier" than XCOM?
Well, the original code wasn't available so they tried to more or less recreate the behavior from the original based on their observation.
How accurate this recreation was and whether it's harder or easier than the original is really hard to tell without extensive testing.
What I also noticed is that I can enable/disable BAI as a MOD and also in the BOXCE settings: what is the difference?
The mod force-enables the option and also "enhanced dogfight behavior" as well as "aggressive retaliation" it also disables the capability to research Psi-Amplifiers. It's kinda an "this is how it's meant to be played by the author"-mod. Whereas the option just regulates the AI and doesn't enforce any other settings.
Also - if I disable it in the BOXCE settings - is the first option a "main/master" one controlling all the others? Or do I actually need to disable them one by one? The UI does not seem to be giving clear tips on this :-). Will I get weird behaviors if I enable just some of them? Are there dependencies?
If you disable "Brutal AI" all the other stuff associated with the brutal AI is ignored. Except for Brutal Neutrals and Autoplay.
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Glad you like it. I, myself, struggled with these graph for long. Implemented this as soon as I got the opportunity to contribute.
So maybe it would be "fair" to also have a setting (#3?) allowing to scale in the same way, ie. show every point of activity in the range 0-90, every 2 points in 90-180, etc.
You can increase scale of graph by pressing "+" and see your one point increment regardless of the initial graph scale.
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Well, the original code wasn't available so they tried to more or less recreate the behavior from the original based on their observation.
How accurate this recreation was and whether it's harder or easier than the original is really hard to tell without extensive testing.
The AI code was reverse-engineered and is identical to the original.
It was not done based on "observation".
Beyond AI code, there are minimal differences to the whole AI experience, caused by other factors, e.g. more complex pathfinding.
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Thanks @Xilmi - now I know how to control BAI.
@Alpha Centauri Bear: my original XCOM does not react to the '+' button, so I guess this is an OXC(E?) feature. Also - even if you zoom in, it is only practical when the value is very small - for big values they are "above the screen", so the zoom does not help (the zooming happens on the 0 level, not at the peak).
I remember when I used to play XCOM it was enough for one country/region to go "over scale", so that the scaling (and thus granularity) would change for all of them.
But anyway - your feature is great as it is, so totally no worries- I don't want to sound like a smarta$$ here :-)
@Meridian - thanks for confirming - so playing OXC(E) I'll have a very similar AI experience as with XCOM. If I want to go for the next level I can enable BOXCE.
Cheers guys!
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@Alpha Centauri Bear: my original XCOM does not react to the '+' button, so I guess this is an OXC(E?) feature. Also - even if you zoom in, it is only practical when the value is very small - for big values they are "above the screen", so the zoom does not help (the zooming happens on the 0 level, not at the peak).
I remember when I used to play XCOM it was enough for one country/region to go "over scale", so that the scaling (and thus granularity) would change for all of them.
But anyway - your feature is great as it is, so totally no worries- I don't want to sound like a smarta$$ here :-)
Cheers guys!
It is a - on numeric keyboard. Check the Options - Controls. The key is listed there for "Zoom in, graphs".
That is fine suggestion, no worries. I just don't want to overly complicate it even if it is perceived somewhat unfair. Think of it as "local news".
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It is a - on numeric keyboard. Check the Options - Controls. The key is listed there for "Zoom in, graphs".
But that's an OXCE option... Not even OXC. I was comparing to the "original XCOM", where there is no such option :-). And even with the Zoom In possible - open a game with a lot of activity already and try to zoom in on a region that has a high value. There is no way this could help you notice the difference between 800 and 801 :-)
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I played a bit more with this feature and noticed that it works a bit differently than the Activity Graphs:
- it will show activity as 1 for a landed UFO (Graphs show +2)
- it will not show additional activity for a completed mission
- it will not show activity generated by an alien base, etc.
Have you considered "plugging" this functionality into the
void Country::addActivityAlien(int activity) (AND void Region::addActivityAlien(int activity) )
functions?
This way you would really track the activity (as the Graphs do) rather than track UFOs.
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Have you considered "plugging" this functionality into the
void Country::addActivityAlien(int activity) (AND void Region::addActivityAlien(int activity) )
functions?
I completely agree. This seems to be a way better way and if Alpha Centauri Bear doesn't do it, I shall look into doing that myself.
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Since this is the functionality that brought me to this forum (and to OXC / BOXCE) in the first place (thanks a million Alpha Centauri Bear!!!) and since the UI is already fully implemented (otherwise I would have no idea how to even start), I guess I could rework a bit the logic so that we get a pure QoL feature that just shows exactly what the Activity Graphs do:
- activity for all the UFOs (also the detected ones - which might be a bit of a bummer - the current feature excludes them which is quite practical... But the Activity Graphs obviously do not exclude the detected ones, so for a purist it would make sense not to do it either).
- correct counting for landed UFOs (+2 per 30 minutes)
- including the missions (e.g Terror!)
- and the bases
- and whatever else I might have forgotten (do mods allow for activity points to be generated for other actions than in vanilla?)
Additionally (as I mentioned in one of my previous comments on this thread), the activity graphs rescale after the value goes over 90 for a country/region (they will then only show increments of 2) and with every further "doubling" (180, 360, 720, etc) each time halving the granularity. So when the activity for one of the regions later in the game goes over 720, the Graph will scale up to 1440 and only "move" when there are additional 16 activity points in the region. That's how I was considering to implement it.
I was just wondering whether Alpha Centauri Bear already considered the implementation inside addActivityAlien and decided against it for some reasons that he found out during his analysis / implementation...
Let me know guys if you see any "red flags" and whether you would like me to implement this feature in the next weeks (or whether you are already working on it Xilmi - you seem to have liked my idea :-).
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I don't personally use this feature as it just annoyed me too much as it is, when I tried.
If someone who actually uses it has an idea on how to improve it, I'm open to it.
Also on second thought about my previous comment I'm not so sure anymore. You brought up some points about why there might be good reasons not to track everything. But on the other hand you also say that differentiating between different things wouldn't be possible by the graphs.
So for now I wouldn't do anything. If you want to cook something up, feel free to do it.
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I played a bit more with this feature and noticed that it works a bit differently than the Activity Graphs:
- it will show activity as 1 for a landed UFO (Graphs show +2)
- it will not show additional activity for a completed mission
- it will not show activity generated by an alien base, etc.
Have you considered "plugging" this functionality into the
void Country::addActivityAlien(int activity) (AND void Region::addActivityAlien(int activity) )
functions?
This way you would really track the activity (as the Graphs do) rather than track UFOs.
You are right. It does not and this is by design. This being said, I am open for design modification discussion.
At the beginning of the game radar coverage is tiny. There are a lot of undetected UFOs out there. Standard workaround is to watch activity graphs and send crafts to the active region hoping to detect UFO with craft radar and intercept it (or land nearby). This approach is completely workable. However, it is very annoying to play game at low speed checking graphs every 30 minutes for few months. Ugh.
This feature is the replacement of this technique. Now player can spin the globe at max speed and popup will stop the time when activity changed. Consider it as public report of alien sights helping young X-Com forces.
This feature counts only number of undetected UFOs in region to help player understand where to send their crafts to comb the area. Any other alien activity is irrelevant for this purpose. Similarly, it is irrelevant whether UFO is flying or landed. Player just need to know there are UFOs in region present for X hours.
I agree that, since it filters alien activity, it may be considered as a borderline cheat. However, seasoned player still should be able to differentiate most of the noise events. Detected UFOs are visible on the screen and their activity can be subtracted from the total one. Terror missions also known to player and can be subtracted. Alien base activity happens once a day at midnight and not every 30 minutes making it easy to filter out. Etc. The only thing that cannot be differentiated is whether UFO is flying or landed. I think this is minor, but can modify it if this is a concern.
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Makes sense :-) I kind of thought that you designed it like this.
What I was considering would be 2 more options for the feature:
a) exact info from the Activity graph (so basically +N for every region/country/total whenever something should happen). Is is also a kind of "cheat" cause the graphs get less granular with the time....
b) the info from a) but with the right granularity factor. Would be the most "purist" solution but maybe not so easy to explain due to granularity.
Would this be something interesting? Should I build up a PR?
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a) exact info from the Activity graph (so basically +N for every region/country/total whenever something should happen). Is is also a kind of "cheat" cause the graphs get less granular with the time....
You mean another column showing the unfiltered activity? I think this can be done. The question is - which one you want to trigger popup by?
b) the info from a) but with the right granularity factor. Would be the most "purist" solution but maybe not so easy to explain due to granularity.
Sorry, I don't understand the granularity thing. The popup shows how long UFO is present in region. This is usually a number between 1 and 20.
Would this be something interesting? Should I build up a PR?
If you already know what to do - by all means!
Check with the mod owner. I am completely fine.
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Sorry, I don't understand the granularity thing. The popup shows how long UFO is present in region. This is usually a number between 1 and 20.
Try to open the Activity Graph for some of you old saves (far in the game - with a lot of activity tracked already). Notice that the Graph will be scaled differently instead of 90 on the top it will have 180, 360, etc. If you want to sell it as a QoL feature substituting the Graph analysis, you can't forget that later in the game you will not see a single point of activity on the Graph anymore. Depending on your current scale you will only notice a difference after 2 activity points (or 4, or 8, etc). So your feature gives a clear advantage here (noticing the UFO after the first point of activity) vs the Graph. That's why I meant that including the granularity (so only e.g. showing your pop up after 4 activity points are gained - of course depending on the current scale for the country/region) would be more fair / purist.
Does it make sense? :-)
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I understand what is granularity in GRAPHS. I don't understand how graphs granularity applies to the numbers shown in the popup.
Graphs may show increase from 1000 to 1010 and, yes, human may not be able to distinguish it. However, popup shows just 10.
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Technically in Graph there is not really a 1000 (or at least there is no way whatsoever to know that it is exactly a 1000). With the real value of 1000 your scale will be 1440 and your granularity 16. Meaning that no matter how much you compare, how many screenshots you take and how good your eyes are (trust me - there was a time that I did all this :-) that's why I love your feature so much!) - you can only see values that are the multiple of 16 - this is the "pixel size".
So on the Graph you will not see a 1000 but rather 992 (16*62). This is all you will see until you reach 1008 (16*63). The values in between are technically "hidden" to you - no way to read them from the Graph.
As a "Heavy Graph Reader" in your scenario (1000 +10), what you will see is 992 switching to 1008 - however you can't possibly figure out if this was a 992+30, 1000+10 or 1007+1. Graph does not give you this info. So later in a game it may take you a few hours to "notice" a UFO flying over a busy region - in your current example, if you are at 1000, you need 4 hours (8*30min) to notice that a UFO is in the air over the region - only then the "needle" will move (you get to 1008). Your notifications on the other hand can show it immediately.
And that's exactly why I thought about 2 versions:
a) showing exactly 1000+10 in the notification (a bit "cheaty" - giving away more info than the Graph). This notification would pop up every time there is activity (so possibly every 30min)
b) showing 992 + 16 (which is exactly what Graph would be able to tell you, however it is not quite intuitive/easy to explain :-) (this notification would pop up every time the activity crosses the "granularity" threshold - every time the Graph would move - which is possibly not as often as a)
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I see. Got it.
Sure, you can go with whatever additional version you want.
Honestly, I was thinking about multiple version of this initially too. However, later I decided to cut down to the minimum. Most player would not care about intricacies of granularity. They just want to have some QoL improvement even though it may be somewhat cheat-like.
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Hey - it was definitely the QoL that brought me to this thread (and through this to OXC/BOXCE) in the first place. So I 100% agree with you.
Still - after playing with your feature (on setting #2) for some time, I realized that it is really powerful. In January it is very similar to 'graph mining' but later in the game it brings way more value than just the graph (due to granularity). I mean, with your feature one can play the game with zero radar coverage and still catch most of the UFOs.
That's what I thought it would need some balancing. And the only way I could imagine would be to count the activity (and add granularity) rather than count UFOs....
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Started to analyze the code and found something quite interesting :-). The Graphs do NOT necessarily get updated every 30 min as written here:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/UFO_Detection#UFO_Activity_Graph
I mean - most of the time they do - but there are events that can be triggered (and increase the score) inside the 30 min interval. Take a look here:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Scoring#Alien_Scoring
For example - the 10 points score for Terror mission creation will be granted immediately when the UFO reaches the city - not at the 30 min. Also other missions will work the same way - no necessarily on the 30 min switch. I tested it and could confirm by looking at the graphs just before and just after the Terror ship would land in the City. This was quite a surprise for me - technically it would mean that as a "Heavy Graph Reader" you would actually want to check the Graph every 5 sec to catch all the events immediately :-).
I need to think what this would mean for your notification..... whether I would want it to show up immediately or rather add up the mission score to whatever other score will be generated on the 30min and then display the notification....
If you have any opinion / idea - happy to brainstorm here :-)
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Still - after playing with your feature (on setting #2) for some time, I realized that it is really powerful. In January it is very similar to 'graph mining' but later in the game it brings way more value than
Setting 2 is for super punctual players. I introduced it just because one of such asked me to.
Setting 1 is for normal people and it has granularity 10. Meaning triggering popup only when UFO is 5 hours in the area. This is pretty much designed way: give player some generic insight without pixel precise knowledge.
If you think 2 is too abusive - play with 1. That is what I do. And if you think 1 is too abusive - just not use it!
😀
I mean, with your feature one can play the game with zero radar coverage and still catch most of the UFOs.
No offense, but have you actually tried to play to this to support your statement?. 😉
Radar coverage is definitely better. That is why people keep building bases together with tracking graphs.
Detecting UFO with craft radar requires craft which has multiple disadvantages:
- Information delay. UFO may leave region at the time player knows about it and craft reaches it.
- Discovery chance could be really low especially for combing large regions like pacific.
- All this flying here and there takes your craft out of service for days and makes them unavailable for interception when you need them.
- First couple of months is fine but then player needs more interceptors just to search hidden UFOs. Keeping interceptors just for that, you know, costs much more than few radars.
- Besides, it becomes pretty plain annoying very soon. Again - try it and you'll see.
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I don't really understand the fixation on graph granularity. Yes, this feature is replacing graphs constant watching by player, but it does not replace graphs themselves nor it attempt to mimic graph behavior in any way. Seriously, it does not have to do anything with graphs. The presence of graphs in the game just creates an excuse to not call this feature a hardcore cheat as it provides similar information. Should these graphs not exist in the game at all, this feature still would be usable and likable by some players even if called a (formal) cheat.
Think about it. Graphs start with zero every month. OXCE allows scaling them to the smallest granularity so, essentially every new month, your granularity drops to 1 and then may grow again depending on amount of alien activity accumulated during the month. You seriously want to emulate these up-down granularity jumps?
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https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/UFO_Detection#UFO_Activity_Graph
Wow, this is exactly what I was calling my feature. Just never saw this statement before.
the UFO/Alien Sub activity graphs, accessed from the Geoscape, can act as a sort of "MUFON" (Mutual UFO Network: a civilian group dedicated to the observation of UFOs/Alien Subs), allowing you to see activity that your radars/sonars cannot.
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Started to analyze the code and found something quite interesting :-). The Graphs do NOT necessarily get updated every 30 min as written here:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/UFO_Detection#UFO_Activity_Graph
I mean - most of the time they do - but there are events that can be triggered (and increase the score) inside the 30 min interval. Take a look here:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Scoring#Alien_Scoring
For example - the 10 points score for Terror mission creation will be granted immediately when the UFO reaches the city - not at the 30 min. Also other missions will work the same way - no necessarily on the 30 min switch. I tested it and could confirm by looking at the graphs just before and just after the Terror ship would land in the City. This was quite a surprise for me - technically it would mean that as a "Heavy Graph Reader" you would actually want to check the Graph every 5 sec to catch all the events immediately :-).
I need to think what this would mean for your notification..... whether I would want it to show up immediately or rather add up the mission score to whatever other score will be generated on the 30min and then display the notification....
If you have any opinion / idea - happy to brainstorm here :-)
Nobody said graphs are updated every 30 minutes. They are real time.
UFO flying (landed) for 30 minutes generates 1 (2) points. That is why UFO related activity is naturally reflected in graphs every 30 minutes. Other alien activity types have their own rules. Usually just once they happened as you discovered.
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This was new for me :-). But I guess I would still leave your notifications to show up every 30 min summarizing the events of the last half an hour... Rather then showing them immediately after the activity is tracked