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Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 1622996 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2160 on: March 20, 2016, 01:41:44 pm »
I've spent two months waiting for a sectoid base/terror mission/base attack so I could get alien electronics to build the avenger and finish the game. The game finally gave me two sectoid base attacks in a row but neither had any cyber disks to drop the electronics. Please add alien electronics to more enemies (other than MIB agents they haven't been giving any either) or provide a way for the player to manufacture it themselves because as it is the game isn't ending until RNG allows it.

Sorry about it, you were just really unlucky. Yeah, I'll think about it - maybe make another Muton subrace with Obliterators totally innocuous tanks as terror units, they would yield electronics too.

(These units are already made for another mod of mine, it'd be easy to add them. They are pretty tough.)

Offline Slaughter

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2161 on: March 20, 2016, 07:24:32 pm »
Just got my shit packed in by Cthonites in a terror mission. Placement screwed me. Had one with a plasma caster overlooking the Skyranger's back from a good sniping position. Also screwed up a lot, like when I acidentally killed a guy while trying to demolish a wall with a rocket.

By the way, what's up with the Cthonites? They seem to have no interesting abilities.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 07:26:57 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2162 on: March 20, 2016, 07:29:21 pm »
By the way, what's up with the Cthonites? They seem to have no interesting abilities.

Nothing's up really, they just complete a niche among starting races: they have no psi like Sectoids and no flying abilities like Floaters, but they are more resilient. I know they're no rock stars. :P

They will be more interesting in X-Com Files, since as an underground race they will have underground bases (or more like villages, really).

EDIT: Added frigging rocket tanks to some Muton deployments to give the player more sources of Alien Electronics. Have a nice day. ^_^
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 08:50:45 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline wortkarg

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2163 on: March 22, 2016, 12:53:17 pm »
Some balance issues:

1) Psi is totally overpowered. If you have psi amps you need no weapons more, you need not even step out of the transporter. It's a fun killer.
I would suggest to integrate following options from "Customizable Psi/Blaster Balance Mod":
- Psi-Amp Line Of Sight: X-COM must be in line-of-sight to the target to use the Psi-Amp.
- Psi Amp Time Units Cost 45: Using the Psi-Amp costs 45 time units instead of 25.
- Expensive Psi-Amp: The Psi-Amp is more expensive and requires more special materials. This includes 2 mind probes. Manufacturing mind probes are also no longer possible.

I would also decrease Psi Strength/Psi Skill of the X-COM Soldiers, both, starting and max (see "Psi Threat Reduced" option).

2) Skymarshall is better as Ironfist
Ironfist was supposed to be a better craft, but i think, that Skymarshall is a way better.
Pros:
- all doors are closed at the end of turn (soldiers are safe)
- doors are better placed (3 directions, no stairs)
- main door is better defended
- more fuel (unlike Ironfist Skymarshall can reach any point)
Cons:
- less cargo space (IMHO not important, Skymarshall has enough space)
- speed, damage etc. (fuel and craft layout are a way more important for transporter)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2164 on: March 22, 2016, 07:09:29 pm »
Hello and thanks for the feedback.

Some balance issues:

(...)

Well, Final Mod Pack is a project that doesn't deviate too much from the basic game, and the proposed changes are in my opinion a bit too much to be included in the mod, as they alter basic game mechanics. I am aware of the problem, but I prefer for the end user to apply such changes themselves if they wish.

In OpenXCom: X-Files, which is among other things FMP on steroids, I will tackle this problem in some way.

2) Skymarshall is better as Ironfist

(...)

Duly noted. Though Ironfist also has the roof hatch, which I think should be mentioned too. I'll think about it.

Offline gix

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2165 on: March 22, 2016, 09:49:17 pm »
LMG AA rounds power is 40, just as normal rounds - should be higher, right?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2166 on: March 22, 2016, 10:21:51 pm »
LMG AA rounds power is 40, just as normal rounds - should be higher, right?

Yes, it was reported before and will be fixed in the next release. Really sorry about that.

Offline gix

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2167 on: March 22, 2016, 11:58:15 pm »
Yes, it was reported before and will be fixed in the next release. Really sorry about that.
Don't be sorry - you've done a really wonderful job with this mod...

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2168 on: March 23, 2016, 01:27:18 am »
Don't be sorry - you've done a really wonderful job with this mod...


Offline Slaughter

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2169 on: March 23, 2016, 09:41:37 pm »
More on my game, I'm in March and just got my base assaulted (will play when I get back home):

- Is the game intended to be played with alien weapon self-destruction? It does leads to a harder game and makes captures more important.
 You know, if I planned on being even more evil, I would give all aliens a itty-bitty elerium explosive armed on 2 turn trigger, which they drop when stunned, so that if you don't do it right, the alien self-destructs along with his things. Quite weak, just strong enough to blow gear and body. Aliens, what aliens? There are no aliens. Aliens don't exist. You're saying its aliens, but its not aliens.

- It is just me or in FMP the two saddest X-COM weapons - namely, the standard issue X-COM Pistol and the Cannon - are even sadder? The Pistol looks downright useless compared to the Magnum's huge firepower and the SMG's quick snap-shots and sweet bursts. It was already pretty much a thing you gave to your grenadiers in case they could't deploy grenades, its now even more useless. Pretty much the only thing it does better than the magnum is faster, more accurate snap shots. Maybe giving it auto-shot would be the answer, but it would get into the SMG's turf.

- The Heavy Cannon wasn't very used in vanilla, if I remember right. I remember using it as low-powered rocket launcher, useful for shooting Cyberdisc from afar at best. It is another weapon in a sad niche - lacks the Auto-Cannon's bursts, has more precision but it is clearly inferior to the Tac Sniper Rifle, and if you need to thrown a bomb with precision somewhere the Grenade Lancher is far better.

- Gotta love the weapon variety, especially because it makes soldier roles and weapons more important. I usually send the "Close-Quarters" fighters with magnums, shotguns, SMGs and ARs to assault the UFO while my riflemen and heavy weapon specialists fight in the outdoors. The two Miniguns can be cool in close spaces too but its main use seems to be base defense. Flamethrowner is actually a bit too powerful I think, even Cyberdiscs get one-shotted by it. Does every explosion deliver all the damage?

- Is the combat knife even useful for something? Seems to be back-up weapon for desperate snipers or people with low TUs. Would rather carry a batton and stun aliens. Inb4 someone say the combat knife saved his operation.

- What about adding range info to the UFOpaedia? Makes it easier to differentiate the weapons.

- Any plans to add some enemies I saw in the mod portals? Like Mechtoids and Xcom2 "Pectoids"?

- Do aliens have a preferred enemy: Attack Dog secret rule? I swear, poor doges rarely make it past turn 2. Its like the plasma is attracted to them.

- What hapened to the more nations mod? Used be on the mod. I liked how I had to think more about base placement rather than the old "Europe, then North America then East Asia then the rest of you wait for it or die" base placement.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 01:05:31 am by Slaughter »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2170 on: March 24, 2016, 06:50:18 pm »
Hi Slaughter.

More on my game, I'm in March and just got my base assaulted (will play when I get back home):

How did it go? :)

- Is the game intended to be played with alien weapon self-destruction? It does leads to a harder game and makes captures more important.

Oh hell no :) Actually you are the very first player I've met who uses this option at all.

Well, it's not like you can't, but I'm not taking any responsibilities. ;) But yeah, it can be done, at least theoretically.

You know, if I planned on being even more evil, I would give all aliens a itty-bitty elerium explosive armed on 2 turn trigger, which they drop when stunned, so that if you don't do it right, the alien self-destructs along with his things. Quite weak, just strong enough to blow gear and body. Aliens, what aliens? There are no aliens. Aliens don't exist. You're saying its aliens, but its not aliens.

Nah, running to the alien to pick up the damn mine would be too easy and just be a hassle. Trust me, I've spent a long time wondering about these things and I couldn't find a sensible justification for weapon self-destruction, as all technical measures could and eventually would be circumvented by X-Com engineers.

- It is just me or in FMP the two saddest X-COM weapons - namely, the standard issue X-COM Pistol and the Cannon - are even sadder? The Pistol looks downright useless compared to the Magnum's huge firepower and the SMG's quick snap-shots and sweet bursts. It was already pretty much a thing you gave to your grenadiers in case they could't deploy grenades, its now even more useless. Pretty much the only thing it does better than the magnum is faster, more accurate snap shots. Maybe giving it auto-shot would be the answer, but it would get into the SMG's turf.

Well, I didn't want to tweak vanilla weapons (and I didn't, except for the plasmas which now have slightly limited range, but it's unlikely that an average player would even realize it). As for Pistol vs. SMG, it seems that opinions regarding them might be divided.

Yeah, neither of them is very good. But they do have their advantages beyond the simple damage category.

- The Heavy Cannon wasn't very used in vanilla, if I remember right. I remember using it as low-powered rocket launcher, useful for shooting Cyberdisc from afar at best. It is another weapon in a sad niche - lacks the Auto-Cannon's bursts, has more precision but it is clearly inferior to the Tac Sniper Rifle, and if you need to thrown a bomb with precision somewhere the Grenade Lancher is far better.

Really? I know many players who definitely favour HC over AC for its accuracy and (to a lesser degree) damage. I'm a bit torn myself, but I'm sure HC isn't worse than AC.

You're saying that the tactical sniper rifle is better than the HC, but can you elaborate on this? Because I can't really see how they're interchangeable.

- Gotta love the weapon variety, especially because it makes soldier roles and weapons more important. I usually send the "Close-Quarters" fighters with magnums, shotguns, SMGs and ARs to assault the UFO while my riflemen and heavy weapon specialists fight in the outdoors. The two Miniguns can be cool in close spaces too but its main use seems to be base defense. Flamethrowner is actually a bit too powerful I think, even Cyberdiscs get one-shotted by it.

Yeah, sounds more or less as intended. Though I can't see how the Flamethrower can kill a Cyberdisc with one attack. :) At least on higher difficulties - are you playing on Beginner?

Anyway, I think Flamethrower is fine when you consider its drawbacks. But I'll listen.

Does every explosion deliver all the damage?

Uhh, can you explain? :)

- Is the combat knife even useful for something? Seems to be back-up weapon for desperate snipers or people with low TUs. Would rather carry a batton and stun aliens. Inb4 someone say the combat knife saved his operation.

Well, it's not meant to be a very good weapon, and your assessment seems correct. I use it for fun though, and sometimes - rarely - its quickness can prove useful in close quarters.

- What about adding range info to the UFOpaedia? Makes it easier to differentiate the weapons.

It'd be nice, I'll probably do it some day. But it's painful work. :P

- Any plans to add some enemies I saw in the mod portals? Like Mechtoids and Xcom2 "Pectoids"?

I added some, some were rejected for various quality-related issues. If something nice comes up, sure, I'd be happy to add them.

- Do aliens have a preferred enemy: Attack Dog secret rule? I swear, poor doges rarely make it past turn 2. Its like the plasma is attracted to them.

I think that's because they're mainly scouts, so they're usually seen first. And then the aliens lock onto them, even when they can't see the doge anymore.

- What hapened to the more nations mod? Used be on the mod. I liked how I had to think more about base placement rather than the old "Europe, then North America then East Asia then the rest of you wait for it or die" base placement.

I don't recall anything like it being erased from the mod. Maybe you were using some additional mod?

Anyway, adding more nations would be nice, but making new countries is kamikaze work. If anyone could contribute here, then mister, you're a better man than I. :P

Offline gix

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2171 on: March 24, 2016, 08:06:22 pm »
Hi, Solarius
The reptoid autopsy ufopaedia picture is... well... IMO unrelated to the subject?
Better suited IMO to an alien technology...
And a question - is the FMP's page on the mod (openxcom.com) site working? I think no (after an age of waiting, there opens and shows the v1.8.1). If so, I'd suggest to add in your first post in this thread the download links for this mod (like a sticky note or so)...

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Offline Slaughter

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2173 on: March 25, 2016, 07:09:42 pm »
Quote
Hi Slaughter.
Hi Solarius!

Quote
How did it go? :)

Been busy with study, actually didn't get around to it yet. I had 32 men, conventional weapons, rifles and SMG had alloy ammo made (didn't get time to make ammo for the others). So far I think I beat most of the Sectoid assault force, both through the chokepoint and because I had four soldiers isolated near the Hangars at start (Don't ask me why). I think I lost as many soldiers from mind control homicide/suicide as I have lost from the aliens' direct attacks. Had a panic wave from a horrible two turns but it seems things are getting back to normal.

Currently I'm preparing to mount an assault against the Hangars, as I think the remaining aliens are camping there and spamming psi attacks and blaster bombings. I gotta get to it after I finish studying - I play on my Android with the Android port actually, say hi to Nadir for me.

Quote
Oh hell no :) Actually you are the very first player I've met who uses this option at all.

Well, it's not like you can't, but I'm not taking any responsibilities. ;) But yeah, it can be done, at least theoretically.

Once I started to use it I realized vanilla X-COM makes it too easy to simply kill UFO crews and sell their stuff. Now you have to do captures if you want that sweet loot.

Quote
Nah, running to the alien to pick up the damn mine would be too easy and just be a hassle. Trust me, I've spent a long time wondering about these things and I couldn't find a sensible justification for weapon self-destruction, as all technical measures could and eventually would be circumvented by X-Com engineers.

I find weapon self-destruction quite rational, through I'm surprised you never ran with it and made it drop alien weapon components, like in the remake.

Quote
Well, I didn't want to tweak vanilla weapons (and I didn't, except for the plasmas which now have slightly limited range, but it's unlikely that an average player would even realize it). As for Pistol vs. SMG, it seems that opinions regarding them might be divided.

Yeah, neither of them is very good. But they do have their advantages beyond the simple damage category.

SMG has a burst mode, pistol doesn't, Magnum has way more power. SMG also has cheapo snap shot so its great for UFO assaults.

Btw, I was wondering why the AR and the Rifle have equal damage. Looking from their appearance, the Assault Rifle seems to be a 5,56mm rifle, one of the smaller designs, looks like one of these para rifles/carbines, while the Rifle is bigger and clearly looks like a weapon meant to take in the 6,5mm intermediary round. Bit odd.

Quote
Really? I know many players who definitely favour HC over AC for its accuracy and (to a lesser degree) damage. I'm a bit torn myself, but I'm sure HC isn't worse than AC.

You're saying that the tactical sniper rifle is better than the HC, but can you elaborate on this? Because I can't really see how they're interchangeable.

Tac Rifle has HE ammo too and far more precision. At least that's how I see it.

Quote
Yeah, sounds more or less as intended. Though I can't see how the Flamethrower can kill a Cyberdisc with one attack. :) At least on higher difficulties - are you playing on Beginner?

Anyway, I think Flamethrower is fine when you consider its drawbacks. But I'll listen.

You can't? Because I'm pretty sure every time I tried, the Cyberdisc became churrasco. Its a sure-shot kill, doesn't even explode. And I play superhuman, always did after my first playthrough ever of X-COM.

Quote
Uhh, can you explain? :)

Flamer makes multiple "explosions". Does every explosion deliver 42 damage?
So far the only thing I didn't kill with fire have been Silacoids.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2174 on: March 26, 2016, 12:39:16 am »
Hi, Solarius
The reptoid autopsy ufopaedia picture is... well... IMO unrelated to the subject?
Better suited IMO to an alien technology...

They are medical tools and a lab space in general. I thought it was obvious, but maybe it's not. :P

I'd happily add a real autopsy picture if I had one.

And a question - is the FMP's page on the mod (openxcom.com) site working? I think no (after an age of waiting, there opens and shows the v1.8.1).

Nope, it's still not working.

If so, I'd suggest to add in your first post in this thread the download links for this mod (like a sticky note or so)...

I thought the page would be down temporarily, but maybe I should edit that first post...

I'm not comfortable with it since it's not my post, but I guess it can't be helped. I'll wait a few more days though.

FYI:  a Twitch Streamer is taking on FMP:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/4bsb4h/new_oxc_livestream_announcement_the_final_modpack/

Thanks, I'll check it out when I have some time.

Been busy with study, actually didn't get around to it yet. I had 32 men, conventional weapons, rifles and SMG had alloy ammo made (didn't get time to make ammo for the others). So far I think I beat most of the Sectoid assault force, both through the chokepoint and because I had four soldiers isolated near the Hangars at start (Don't ask me why). I think I lost as many soldiers from mind control homicide/suicide as I have lost from the aliens' direct attacks. Had a panic wave from a horrible two turns but it seems things are getting back to normal.

Currently I'm preparing to mount an assault against the Hangars, as I think the remaining aliens are camping there and spamming psi attacks and blaster bombings. I gotta get to it after I finish studying - I play on my Android with the Android port actually, say hi to Nadir for me.

I will :)

Anyway, looks like you'll be fine. Cyberdiscs are always a bit of a problem, but you'll be fine.

Once I started to use it I realized vanilla X-COM makes it too easy to simply kill UFO crews and sell their stuff. Now you have to do captures if you want that sweet loot.

That's how it is. That's how it always has been. Actually the FMP makes it much more important to capture live aliens than the vanilla game, since you need to interrogate them more. A lot.

I find weapon self-destruction quite rational, through I'm surprised you never ran with it and made it drop alien weapon components, like in the remake.

Remake? What remake? There was no remake.

Anyway, if you convince me that self-destructing weapons make any sense, I'll eat my mouse pad. As I said, I spent a lot of time on this, talked to a lot of people, came to a conclusion that there's no way this would be realistic. I'm not saying people shouldn't use it, but I want no part in this nonensical mechanics. Because it's silly.

SMG has a burst mode, pistol doesn't, Magnum has way more power. SMG also has cheapo snap shot so its great for UFO assaults.

I agree. Though I think the SMG is a bit weak to be used in snap shot mode at short distances, and fort long distances it's woefully inaccurate.

Btw, I was wondering why the AR and the Rifle have equal damage. Looking from their appearance, the Assault Rifle seems to be a 5,56mm rifle, one of the smaller designs, looks like one of these para rifles/carbines, while the Rifle is bigger and clearly looks like a weapon meant to take in the 6,5mm intermediary round. Bit odd.

They have equal damage becaus they use the same ammo. Sure, I could change this, but then the AR would have to be really weak.

Tac Rifle has HE ammo too and far more precision. At least that's how I see it.

I think it's a matter of personal style. I don't use the tac rifles much because they're so inflexible, but I'm glad someone does.

You can't? Because I'm pretty sure every time I tried, the Cyberdisc became churrasco. Its a sure-shot kill, doesn't even explode. And I play superhuman, always did after my first playthrough ever of X-COM.

Hmmm, maybe I'm just unlucky. But I guess it wouldn't be good to decrease its damage. After all, you have to deliver the damage first, and the flamer's range is quite poor.

Flamer makes multiple "explosions". Does every explosion deliver 42 damage?
So far the only thing I didn't kill with fire have been Silacoids.

Yes, each explosion does the damage as stated in the Ufopaedia.