Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N8 28-Apr-2024 Labyrinthus Noctis  (Read 3717198 times)

Offline Eddie

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5235 on: February 19, 2018, 11:46:45 am »
Pyronymer, dude... It works like this:

This is all open source. If you don't like something, you can change it. If you don't know how, people will help you if you ask nicely.

A game works like this: The game designer gives you a problem (mission). You try to solve it with the tools he gives you. Solving the problem is the essence of the game.

Everything here is for free. You have no right to complain about something given to you for free.


I would like to thank Dioxine for developing this mod and think he is doing a gret job at balancing, especially considering how compicated the mod has become. And thanks to Meridian and ohartenstein23 as well for extending the game engine with their quality of life improvements and new mechanics. Some time ago we didn't have a hit log. We had no tech tree viewer. Ufo beams were all the same. No sniper/spotters, no penalty for no LoS. Not anymore. See how far this project has come and appreciate it. Thank the people who put in the work. Enjoy what they have given you for free.


Offline Pyronymer

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5236 on: February 19, 2018, 12:21:51 pm »
I made some simple statements about a fairly clear possible improvement to the game.

The response is... I'm going to have to say, not just abusive but to me suggests Dioxene is... kinda nuts.

I'm not going to respond to flailing abuse with grateful praise and monetary donations. That's not what normal people do, nor is it what normal people should do.

I would not even make this post and point that out, because at this point it's clear that might needlessly trigger a fragile individual.

But seeing the last two responses... one of the reasons I'm not going to respond with money and praise is that at this point I genuinely fear that would be enabling behavior and just maybe other people shouldn't be responding to wild eyed abuse with praise either.

People shouldn't be encouraged to act like that. Its not good for him either.

Offline Martin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5237 on: February 19, 2018, 12:27:46 pm »
The danger level on my ttrpg is in a rare niche of "medium". The gurps system is straight up lethal, shadowrun is straight up lethal (and players are expected to take damage in it too), call of cthulhu is pretty lethal and the spells and creatures are scary (but you're not supposed to be fighting).

Shadowrun isn’t lethal. I’ve seen elven maiden taking point blank shotgun blast to the chest and walking it off after some simple care. The player didn’t even roll very well on his measly 8 soak dice. (body 3 and bonus from the shogun being shitty).

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5238 on: February 19, 2018, 12:40:22 pm »
People shouldn't be encouraged to act like that. Its not good for him either.

Suddenly you're my parent, to speak this way? I'm probably twice as old as you are, so this is kinda funny.
And yes, of course I'm mentally unstable, aggressive and perverted (no homo). I admit that openly, so spare yourself the effort to prove that. Nobody who isn't all of these things would be doing something as pointless as this mod.

Also I wasn't threatening to drop my project, I was just saying that people like you are the worst part of doing all this. I do not like threatening anyone with anything, threats are disgusting. Kill or Live in Peace, there is no threat. My reasons for doing or not doing my art are personal; making them a matter of a public discussion would be disgusting as well. You just have to take it or leave it.

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8670
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5239 on: February 19, 2018, 02:01:24 pm »
I made some simple statements about a fairly clear possible improvement to the game.

We have also made a simple statement that in our opinion this is a clear deterioration (opposite of improvement) to the game.

I have also given you a guide how you can implement the change yourself if you want.

Please stop insisting that your view is the best view and everybody else is wrong... you're making a fool of yourself.
It's not funny anymore.

Offline Martin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5240 on: February 19, 2018, 02:37:49 pm »
Will we finaly get more varied and dangerous underwater missions in the next update?

What about finally finishing the Dr. X arc?

Some boost to the other three codexes to make them as usefull as gray woudl be also welcome... They are fairly balanced, but gray still comes ahead in versatility.

Offline Eddie

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5241 on: February 19, 2018, 02:38:41 pm »
I made some simple statements about a fairly clear possible improvement to the game.

Then just make your own mod and play the way you like. See here for example: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4341.msg59665.html#msg59665
If it's popular, it will be considered for implementation.

As you can see, I had differences of opinion with Dioxine in the past. It was discussed in a civilized manner and eventually led to changes in the main mod. Lots of other examples exist.

Before you insult other peoples opinion, first try to learn why they have that point of view. You will be surprised.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5242 on: February 19, 2018, 02:46:49 pm »
Some boost to the other three codexes to make them as usefull as gray woudl be also welcome... They are fairly balanced, but gray still comes ahead in versatility.

Grey offers nearly no boost to early game's battlescape situation. For all this missing strength we get the best lategame power and this is implemented correctly IMO.
Red and green got new stuff, gold is fine as it is and every codex got gifted with a third voodoo school to further boost each codex power.

Offline Martin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5243 on: February 19, 2018, 03:01:46 pm »
Grey offers nearly no boost to early game's battlescape situation.

When I research codex I already have at the very least mortars, grenade launchers and HMGs. Only boost I need is more feet on the ground, which gray codex delivers via Shadowbat.

I don’t care much about lategame, by then I probably have a BFG or two and stash of baby nukes and can just fuck shit up, what gives it its power is the FORTUNA craft which was probably supposed to be jack of all trades master of none, but ends up being the one craft to rule them all.

Also, is helleriusm and fusion ammo for spitfire too much to ask for?

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5244 on: February 19, 2018, 03:20:53 pm »
Yes the FORTUNA is a great ship but also one of the slowest among the menace class.
While Shadowbat is good for deployments thanks to it's save potshot-ladders it's still a very 'cage'-like fortress with minimal space to drop out unseen.
HMGs and grenade launchers should count for all codexes together with frag grenades and looted hellerium bombs.
It's questionable HOW GOOD the blue menace ship is but it does have a clear weakness due to it's speed and the second smallest crewsize for those unique ships.
Yes you can go to space but you get no space suits! Space missions can be won with minimal crew size as long as you have space-suits to allow access to handslots. Melee just rocks in space thanks to the additional TUs.

Also everything is an improvement that's better than aircar/airvan. Crewsize for more than 10 has to be earned through various techs for unlocking the menace-ships and thunderhorse.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 03:51:12 pm by Ethereal_Medic »

Offline Eddie

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5245 on: February 19, 2018, 03:21:40 pm »
To make some constructive feedback of the current "display damage" conversation:
We already have mind probes in various fashion in the game, which in principle allow you to see the exact damage you deal. How about making that feature a bit more convenient, but gated behind items?

--- disclaimer: the following ideas are based on the ability to change the hit log in battlescape, which needs to be coded ---

- Items having a "damage analyzer"
High tech weapon, equipment or armor which combine a mind probe with a computer to analyze the target as you do damage to it. Using such a device will then change the hit log to display the exact damage. But only for the gal who is wearing/using it.

- Extended midprobe ability
Once you scan something with a mindprobe, the hit log will display the exact damage when you attack that target (just for one round). Could be extended to a passive or area ability on advanced mind probes (alliance advisor for example). Would be a nice boost to these underused items.
Imagine this scenario: Want to test some weapons? Take the brainer outfit, scan the target, then light it up. Seems legit and not gamey.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 03:32:25 pm by Eddie »

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5246 on: February 19, 2018, 03:58:00 pm »
I thought that through and instead of just 'improving' the brainer maybe we can get a second version of it (like Tac Armor with and without helmet) that serves for the purpose as stated above.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 04:19:54 pm by Ethereal_Medic »

Offline RSSwizard

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5247 on: February 19, 2018, 09:09:37 pm »
When I research codex I already have at the very least mortars, grenade launchers and HMGs. Only boost I need is more feet on the ground, which gray codex delivers via Shadowbat. Also, is helleriusm and fusion ammo for spitfire too much to ask for?

Except that being able to build your menacing hull comes like 3 research topics after the other codex craft. And you get hunter killer just right before it. I guess the other codex craft work well enough for the other bases you'd operate since the menacing hull is designed to be a "black pearl" flagship.

Ahh... the lovely Spitfire...
Man that thing needs a Gyro Stabilization module, I could give f-all less about the damn autogun. Get that Spitfire more accurate and we iz gonna have some fun.
(literally, I never invest anything into the spartan Autogun. I go Smartgun from the AMG and it satisfies those needs just fine. Until I UAC Chaingun and then its all ogre)

Ironically a gun like that I could see delivering Choking munitions, poison gas rounds even though the damage would probably still be the same, its like delivering a whole bunch of those green flintlock balls. Some really heavy hurting could be delivered with that.

How about Stun Gas rounds so its like smaller versions of the knockout grenade and you can just burst on someone up close while wearing a gas mask. Ahh but that would be broken wouldn't it?

I think some Hilarious ammo for it would be awesome, then basically its like the vanilla autocannon loaded up with HE. But a blunderbuss with explosive shells is kinda sorta the same thing (40 damage, a burst of 4, its a tiny bit slower to keep it up and not as nice to inventory). Piratez Autocannon + HE I think would beat a spitfire loaded with hellerium munitions, as much as id like 42-48 explosive damage on the spitfire I dont think there's a place at the table for that.

To make some constructive feedback of the current "display damage" conversation:

Im with Dioxine on this one, damage itself is an abstract concept that is supposed to cover how effective an offense has been against a target. I didnt know that the hit log could tell you that 0 damage had been done, ill be on the lookout for that in the future.

But using TTRPGs as an example players might know how much damage they've been doing but the GM will not tell the players how many HP the monster has left. And one question that me as a player always like to ask is "generally speaking how hurt is it?"

Looking at something you can probably tell how bad a shape its in, not to the fine-tuned level of health remaining, but wound categories like they always talk about after someone gets in an accident. Its nice to know when I middle click on a target that its bleeding because of the bleed indicator, but that doesnt say much for their current status and how they're reeling.

I would suggest on the middle-click target screen we give a Heart-With-Dagger icon just under the Bleeding Indicator if the target has lost more than a certain amount of health from maximum. Having only one indicator means only one more math check, only one icon to display, and it leaves things vague enough to not give away too much info to the player with respect to the necessity to use mind probe items

Im thinking 67% because below that they've lost alot and if they were reduced to 1/3rd its likely they'd be KOd by then.

This is also an opportunity to spoof the Hearts display from Zelda, since the icon could literally look like 1 heart and 2 empty hearts LOL.

(so my suggestion, if any indicator is given to the player about damage thats being delivered, it should be done from the other end of the spectrum and the info given practically while still being vague enough not to break immersion... what is this doing to my enemy? am I getting anywhere with this guy?)

Realistically you can tell if someone is bleeding, but you can also tell if they're reeling too and not quite on their game.

Fallout may have had a log that told you all sorts of things including when you wasnt even scratching them. But you kinda needed that because of how strenuous combat could be (ie, barely surviving, one turn between killing this thing or it killing you).

In xcom and piratez thats more of a luxury because you're not operating one main character, if its a bite-your-knuckles close call then you've probably done something wrong.

In my experience close calls are all usually TU related and having overextended myself, now ive got 2 people standing right next to the chryssalid trying to take it down and 1 person and their exact placement and whether or not they can get 2 full melee attacks on it is what stands between success and failure. And I know all the stats involved there, its no mystery. The challenge of playing xcom is usually things like this, especially when there's no choice (like TFTD's artifact sites) and you simply will have to take risks.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5248 on: February 20, 2018, 11:28:48 am »
One thought here: Such a feedback of 'how severe wounded is my enemy' makes only very limited sense.
I explain why: If I want something to be dead in fear of it doing reactionshots or simply allowing it to react in the next A.I.'s turn, I light the target up using all tools I brought into battle.
If I only rely on plasma blunderbuss while facing a sectopod the chances I'm losing 1-2 hands from reactionfire is quite high. Instead I use my plasma rockets and mortar or one of my two portable lascannons deployed by hands in jumpsuits (assault or blitz).

Such a dangerous enemy simply has to die and it makes little sense to constantly check for it's vague HP indicator to determine how much more firepower is needed to get rid of the walker.
Such a feature would be alot more useful to have for knocked out enemies. We all had those 'milkruns' where we capture every single enemy for more slaves but post-mission we still got some corpses due to the stun/turn damage mechanic. If we can see the condition of the soon-be captive, we could salvage more captives for our empire.

It remains totally optional and a QoL change since we got the blessing of non-lethal stun weaponry. There's no need to bash heads in if we one-shot our prey with a handle/ninja stick/heavy baton.
This feature would have most of it's value during encounters with faction leaders and anything you want to research to fill all the gaps in the techtree.
Nothing more frustrating in losing your guildmaster to stun/turn and missing out on his cydonia-codes/reseach topic.
Not everyone has a fully fledged seductress standing around the corner to 'convince' him to stay down and tell us trader secrets.

Offline Martin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5249 on: February 20, 2018, 01:11:31 pm »
Such a dangerous enemy simply has to die and it makes little sense to constantly check for it's vague HP indicator to determine how much more firepower is needed to get rid of the walker.

I once had to burn the thing with flamethrowers, which took coupple of turns. I had advantageous position, so only one causalty in the end.

Speaking of flamethrowers... this mod seriously needs hand flamers, its such a Warhammer clasic!