I have armor, and dragonflies, experienced soldiers, and blackops and uac weapons. And I can't do shit about these things. If you attack it you get blown up by like 5 grenades instantly. The one I'm trying to assault now has a tank in additional to all the other bullshit. My dragonflies are frequently getting blown out of the sky on the world map when I'm trying to do regular missions because I can't escape from their jets. It's just nuuuuuuuts. I can't do shit. It's game over :p
Best tip everIn this mod, every faction has multiple units that have better night vision than your agents in armored gear and there isn't any good night vision gear that can stand up to even weak small arms fire. Showing up at night is just asking for someone to spot you on turn one and to have snipers and grenades raining on you immediately.
Always attack humans in the dark never at day unless you have good armor like tactical suit
In this mod, every faction has multiple units that have better night vision than your agents in armored gear and there isn't any good night vision gear that can stand up to even weak small arms fire. Showing up at night is just asking for someone to spot you on turn one and to have snipers and grenades raining on you immediately.
The best advise I have for an early manor, is saturation bombing, the faster you can cause a loyalty cascade, the better. Most manors have corner to the NE of the starting location where many of the enemy units will try to navigate at one point or another, burying that corner in explosives and gas is a good start. You'll also want to save at the end of every turn before passing since the game can spawn reinforcements one tile behind you and wipe you out instantly.
I thought, well what if I just wipe out the red dawn? So I researched their HQ, went to their HQ, and killed everyone and 3 tanks. I only lost 1 dude. It was easier than the manors! And the manors still stayed after the red dawn was destroyed! FML.
AND
One of the damn manor's is on top of my base so if I use any vehicles they get blown out of the sky and I lose everything. So I had to built another base nearby and ship everything to it! WTF. I wish I could pay them to leave me alone. Like here's 2 millions dollars, fuck off! :p
Do red dawn and dagon manors upgrade to an advanced tier like Exalt and Black Lotus do?Yes.
Most factions have 9 vision same as you besides Dagon.Disciples and Priests have 10. :P
This game is gonna give me ptsdSolarius gets a cut of your shrink's fees, don't you know? ;D
Most factions have 9 vision same as you besides Dagon. A rat or a dog has like 15 or so vision. one dog and a few flares and suddenly you have better vision and can see them across the map while they have to scamper 9 tiles away from you to shoot you. As long as you blow up and shoot the snipers no one will harm you. I often don't shoot guns till I take out priority targets.On the enemy side (a sampling):
Show up at night and get lit up, the AI can attack you from beyond your sight range and you'll get torn up.Not using their couple of extra tiles of night vision. It's either one of them getting close (and probably being a spotter, too) or the 'Hit me, I spot you!' mechanic. Maybe one of the enemies with 15-20 tiles of night vision.
...in its current state, openXcom can not be completed without either save scumming or spending an absolute eternity in maps like the manors.Tell that to the Ironman players. :P
On the enemy side (a sampling):
Elite soldier - Night Vision 13, you'll see around 15 of those on any higher level manor mission
Hybrid Assault - Night Vision 12
EXALT Liquidator - Night Vision 12
EXALT Enforcer - Night Vision 11
Red Dawn Coordinator - Night Vision 11
Red Ops Soldier - Night Vision 11
Red Dawn Pioneer - Night Vision 10 + camo at night
Tell that to the Ironman players. :P
dog still has better vision then any of those you mentioned. Besides that a flare ($60 item) an item you can buy day 1 can be used to make vision range pointless. walk around landing sight with dog, kill people close to lz, throw flare stay in dark, profit. If your walking around the dark with no flashlights, flares, dogs your doing it wrong.If you are counting on flares, that is not what I'd call an "Ironman-safe" strategy as you agents will happily yeet a flare into the back of the head of anyone in 10 yards lighting up your team and getting you instantly gun down. Sure, it you are save scumming, you can undo the sillier behaviors of thrown items, but in an ironman run, every thrown item is spinning the wheel on a squad-wipe, Dogs have better vision, but so what, they can't reaction fire, enemies are real dumb, they walk to the point they can see you and open fire, with superior night vision, that'll be from outside of your range, so no reaction fire before they drop a rocket on you, unless you have surrounded yourself in rings of flares, which is a bit of a craps shoot if you are running ironman. In my experience, the best way to survive is to kill anything that could shoot at you and force anything that could get in range to have to walk far enough to lose their ability to fire. Grenades set to 1, proximity grenades, mines if you have some decent throwers, that's the way to handle manors early on. That and regular saves, unless you like restarting because a reinforcement wave spawns 1 tile behind you and rips you apart.
If you are counting on flares, that is not what I'd call an "Ironman-safe" strategy as you agents will happily yeet a flare into the back of the head of anyone in 10 yards lighting up your team and getting you instantly gun down. Sure, it you are save scumming, you can undo the sillier behaviors of thrown items, but in an ironman run, every thrown item is spinning the wheel on a squad-wipe
Dogs have better vision, but so what, they can't reaction fire, enemies are real dumb, they walk to the point they can see you and open fire, with superior night vision, that'll be from outside of your range, so no reaction fire before they drop a rocket on you, unless you have surrounded yourself in rings of flares
which is a bit of a craps shoot if you are running ironman. In my experience, the best way to survive is to kill anything that could shoot at you
...as you agents will happily yeet a flare into the back of the head of anyone in 10 yards...If you're throwing flares (or grenades) so that someone's head is even theoretically in the way, you're doing it wrong (or have grenade-proof armour).
Dogs have better vision, but so what, they can't reaction fire...Dogs actually can reaction-bark. It's not useful in the same way as reaction fire, but it's definitely a useful feature.
In my experience, the best way to survive is to kill anything that could shoot at you and force anything that could get in range to have to walk far enough to lose their ability to fire.Well, yes. And if a fella having 1-3 more tiles of vision is enough to give them the ability to walk close enough and fire, you were never safe in the first place.
...because a reinforcement wave spawns 1 tile behind you and rips you apart.Didn't that get changed so they never come from the side you spawn from?
I don't know why you keep saying if you stand in the light you get gunned down and squad wiped instantly when in the day you always stand in the light...+1
It's not exactly a hot take to say fighting cults at night is far better. I'm pretty sure it's universal knowledge.Not for me, since I play with reduced grenade/flare ranges (12 tiles max). So I can't do the 'ring of fire' very well, and I definitely can't just lob grenades to kill enemies long-range. If I have the armour and transport capacity, gunning them down faster than they appear is the order of the day, and that is far easier to pull off with daytime shooting ranges. If I'm undergunned, night is an option. But a more risky one.
Didn't that get changed so they never come from the side you spawn from?It did, it prevents them spawning immediately on top of you from what I can see, but move one tile forward and they can spawn behind you. Basically, you need to leave at least one agent standing in the deployment area to block it, leaving by even one tile opens it to reinforcements spawning there.
Are you sure? I just tried, and all four reinforcement waves spawned away from the deployment tiles. The closest they got were the 'SW' and 'SE' corners.I had it happen with someone 5 tiles or less from the edge, saw that Meridian made a change, and then left someone on the deployment zone for every manor I played after that. So, no save at this point.
If this is true, there's something wrong on the OXCE level. Doubly so, even, since they are not supposed to spawn closer than 10 tiles from your agents. I'm sure Meridian will want a save for that.
In my opinion the biggest problem in Iron Man are enemy crafts shooting down your transports.I'm pretty sure a hunter-killer UFO randomly spawning close enough to your transport as part of an alien mission has an astronomically low chance of happening. I mean, why are your transports out at some random hour before the UFOs show up, anyway?
...
You can take precautions and be cautious, but a UFO can suddenly spawn with no warning, you have no way to foresee that with the aliens.
I'm pretty sure a hunter-killer UFO randomly spawning close enough to your transport as part of an alien mission has an astronomically low chance of happening. I mean, why are your transports out at some random hour before the UFOs show up, anyway?
You do know you can escort your transports, right? And that some transports are uninterceptable due to being part of general civilian traffic?
Well it happened to me two times in the first months of invasion if I remember correctly. Obviously the transport is out on its way to a mission far from the base and I don't know when the UFOs are going to show up, you make it sound like I should know when the heck they are going to fly around.No, I'm saying that it's pretty unlikely that your post-invasion transport (so not something glacial) is running around unescorted and far from any friendly base and at exactly the same time and roughly the same place where a mission with hunter-killer UFOs spawns. And you have no good interceptors yet, and the transport can't outrun the UFO, so there's a limited time window, too. Not impossible, but unlikely, since you need so many things to go wrong at the same time.
I know I can escort them but the fighter crafts have a huge chance of being destroyed again in the early stages.They can try to kite a bit, at least. And a fighter+pilot is cheaper than losing your equipment pile and your transport, most likely.
Destroying the interceptor does not kill the pilot (at least with typical settings), the pilot ejects and returns to your base a few days later.I just recently gave Solarius the idea that not all pilots may survive... :P
I just recently gave Solarius the idea that not all pilots may survive... :P
That's what I was referring to with the 'gave Solarius the idea'... :D
I am starting to think you're either a misfortune magnet or are playing XCF 24/7. :D
I am starting to think you're either a misfortune magnet or are playing XCF 24/7. :D
Honestly my main issue with the Red Dawn HQ is the RPG-7.
It's your best bet against tanks, which is cool. But the problem is that it's locked behind Promotion III which requires you to beat Red Dawn to get it. So it's unlocked just after you need it the most.
I'd move that to Promotion II.
Luckily you can get some good loot from various missions, including RPGs. I always save them for these situations before Pro III.That's what I did, yes.
There are many ways to deal with armoured cars (they're not tanks, I'm not that insane :P):
Off the top of my head:
- sniper rifles,
None of these are exactly good at it, but otherwise why would you even want to progress? :)
Reloading, the RL hassle of managing the inventory (most agents can't lug around one of each type of ammo), not to mention that the choice tends to be tactical within a mission more than between mission types. It's easier to shoot something twice than to reload and shoot them with perfect ammo.Yea, don't really bother with that. At least I don't.
Also, the accuracy is kinda crap. I much prefer the heavier versions which at least either provide an actual damage upgrade over the BO Sniper, or just allow you to coat the battlefield in HE/IN.
Neither is an insurmountable problem, but it's a lot more fiddling with a weapon than what you usually do, all to get an at best moderate damage boost.
But otherwise, the damage radius is so tiny and damage goes down too much for non-direct hits. I prefer actual grenade launchers for killing via HE, since they both have a higher radius (so can maybe damage another enemy), better damage and more accuracy due to how arcing works.Oh, absolutely. Especially the MGL as it can fire 2-3 shots per turn to make life miserable for people. But it can't bust down walls.
It's the Auto-Cannon that really does this kind of explosive battlefield shaping well and in ways most grenade launchers cannot.It's way too heavy though. Like, unless you have power armor you just can't fit heavy armor, an autocannon and much ammo on a single guy.
It's way too heavy though. Like, unless you have power armor you just can't fit heavy armor, an autocannon and much ammo on a single guy.Well, I play with a legacy '50 free weight' armour set, from a time when I tried to curb grenade ranges by lowering strength to 25-30 max. Which is kinda cheaty now, but I never enjoyed the "Rookies can't even carry their gun and three reloads" system.
Plus you can't really get it in the timeframe this thread is about, which is while hunting down the Red Dawn manors.Yep. I just wanted to point out that the AC is a weapon that genuinely fits that terrain destruction niche like few others.
True, the LC does have that niche occupied until later when the TGL comes along.If by that you mean the tactical grenade launcher I prefer the MGL. The extra magazine capacity and one handedness is priceless.
Well, I play with a legacy '50 free weight' armour set, from a time when I tried to curb grenade ranges by lowering strength to 25-30 max. Which is kinda cheaty now, but I never enjoyed the "Rookies can't even carry their gun and three reloads" system.I have my own cheaty modifications but extra weight is not one of them. I feel it upsets the gameplay balance far too much.
An HE autocannon dude doesn't need heavy armour, though. He's artillery and should be staying a little behind the front lines. That'll save you 1-2 reloads.A theory most wise. Now if only the enemy could be made to agree with it. Alas, they have a tendency to have a will of their own.
Yep. I just wanted to point out that the AC is a weapon that genuinely fits that terrain destruction niche like few others.Honestly, I am not sure what to think about the AC. Like, in the base game it's a strait upgrade from the heavy cannon. But here its more complicated. I am not sure I prefer it over the LC or say a rocket launcher. I do pack one in the extra kit section of my transport though.
If by that you mean the tactical grenade launcher I prefer the MGL. The extra magazine capacity and one handedness is priceless.The TGL has a considerably bigger boom, with both better damage, radius and terrain destruction. That hole the LC left in the wall? The TGL makes one thrice the size.
I have my own cheaty modifications but extra weight is not one of them. I feel it upsets the gameplay balance far too much.Perhaps. I do love to load up my soldiers with a plethora of grenades and backup weapons, a habit I picked up when I was playing Xenonauts.
A theory most wise. Now if only the enemy could be made to agree with it. Alas, they have a tendency to have a will of their own.Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Especially when 'shock-and-awed'. :D
I prefer to give everyone the best armor I can afford and not take the chances.I just savescum if someone dies to a random shot. If they survive, well, the armour wasn't really necessary, now was it? ;D And even if you don't, most armours aren't exactly one-shot-proof under normal circumstances.
Honestly, I am not sure what to think about the AC. Like, in the base game it's a strait upgrade from the heavy cannon. But here its more complicated. I am not sure I prefer it over the LC or say a rocket launcher. I do pack one in the extra kit section of my transport though.A rocket launcher has nowhere near the weight of fire and a chance to miss altogether. If you absolutely need to level something, the AC is your gun.
The TGL has a considerably bigger boom, with both better damage, radius and terrain destruction. That hole the LC left in the wall? The TGL makes one thrice the size.It's two handed though. And I'd much rather have a one handed launcher + one handed SMG in the other hand since most of the time I am not using the launcher. And than keep the HE in reserve for when I do need it.
It also has more than one shot, even if not quite as many as the MGL.
Perhaps. I do love to load up my soldiers with a plethora of grenades and backup weapons, a habit I picked up when I was playing Xenonauts.Me too. One of each smoke, flame and flash. That is why I dislike weapons that are too heavy.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Especially when 'shock-and-awed'. :D
I find the biggest damage they tend to do is with the extraordinarily long-ranged thrown explosives and other HE ordnance. I culled the first to 12 tiles for everyone, myself included, and now their tendency to mill around instead of shooting my troops is kinda aggravating at times. I'd like to try Brutal AI again, but I had a bad shader crash and don't want to fiddle with the setup too much right now.Armor isn't there to save lives. It's there to cut down on healing times.
I just savescum if someone dies to a random shot. If they survive, well, the armour wasn't really necessary, now was it? ;D And even if you don't, most armours aren't exactly one-shot-proof under normal circumstances.
The heaviest armours tend to have their own drawbacks as well.No, that would be the mortar.
A rocket launcher has nowhere near the weight of fire and a chance to miss altogether. If you absolutely need to level something, the AC is your gun.
Vs the LC, it has slightly better accuracy and slightly worse TU costs, more ammo, enough extra damage to get to the 'holes thrice the size' territory, and ridiculously more shots put downrange when accuracy is not a concern. Like against a barn, for example. :) I'm not sure there's anything the LC actually does better, if you can afford the weight. Well, 180-degree turns and three snaps, perhaps. How often is that important?And weighs three times as much. Don't forget that. Again, I don't cheat to add carry weight. So my most elite soldiers right now can carry an AC and I think one reload or a LC and 4 reloads + healing + stun pistol. And the later configuration is far more versatile and useful.
It's two handed though. And I'd much rather have a one handed launcher + one handed SMG in the other hand since most of the time I am not using the launcher. And than keep the HE in reserve for when I do need it.If I have a grenadier, I do want to use them as such. Keep them back and lob HE at enemy concentrations. The MGL is too short-ranged, or at least lacks the explosion radius to make up for the inaccuracy.
Me too. One of each smoke, flame and flash.In Xenonauts, all my men had a whole beltful, and I had modded the belts to be bigger, too. So more like a dozen grenades, maybe a C4, medipack, primary weapon, spare ammo, sidearm or stun stick... ;D
Armor isn't there to save lives. It's there to cut down on healing times.I have about six teams and slightly modified sickbays (~2 health restored per day).
No, that would be the mortar.True.
And weighs three times as much. Don't forget that. Again, I don't cheat to add carry weight. So my most elite soldiers right now can carry an AC and I think one reload or a LC and 4 reloads + healing + stun pistol. And the later configuration is far more versatile and useful.Yeah, the extra weight does work against the AC. Although your 4+1 mags plus pistol probably have about as many shots as the AC with two while doing less damage. Can't argue against the versatility, though.
If I have a grenadier, I do want to use them as such. Keep them back and lob HE at enemy concentrations. The MGL is too short-ranged, or at least lacks the explosion radius to make up for the inaccuracy.I use it as a mobile rapid fire smoke dispenser. And in that role it's priceless. If I want something to die in a hale of HE I just my mortar.
This has kinda carried forward to XCF. A lot of people disliked the excessively tiny nuCom item limits, and I find that I've developed a similar attitude towards them here.Honestly I couldn't even use that many items even if I wanted to. Like, grenades are secondary support equipment at best. They have a place but I don't use too many of them. Except smoke.
I have about six teams and slightly modified sickbays (~2 health restored per day).True.I do not like making too many balance altering modifications to the game. I feel that makes things too easy. And it leads to some weapons just loosing their niche, such as the case with the LC in your case.
I use it as a mobile rapid fire smoke dispenser. And in that role it's priceless.Can't argue with that.
If I want something to die in a hale of HE I just my mortar.Mortars have an atrocious fire rate. Unless you have several mortars just chilling around, TGL is more flexible and still has enough power to reliably kill things without a direct hit (or the extra-tough cultists I'm using), unlike smaller grenade launchers and the LC.
Honestly I couldn't even use that many items even if I wanted to. Like, grenades are secondary support equipment at best. They have a place but I don't use too many of them. Except smoke.KO/Stun in case an opportunity presents itself, emergency smokes/flashbangs, fire for panicking and corralling, gas is an absolute killer in quite a few cases. And I can just pull one out from pretty much anyone's pocket, which has tremendous utility.
I do not like making too many balance altering modifications to the game. I feel that makes things too easy. And it leads to some weapons just loosing their niche, such as the case with the LC in your case.Well, I can't help myself. I'm a pathological modder. :D