Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N8 28-Apr-2024 Labyrinthus Noctis

[DracoGriffin]

Is it me or does the stone hatchet not have an ufopedia entry? Does fuso knives allow for reaction shots? I remember something i read about reaction shots only being snap shots, and given that knives only have aimed shot, can they be used for reactions?

No, the Stone Hatchet issue is like a big thing; but long drama short, it has to be researched after being manufactured. Cuz there are other things. Spoilery... kind of.

Fuso Knives do not have reaction shots if they do not have a Snap Shot (same for any weapon).

[Arthanor]

hum.. that reminds me I need to do that..

*Bugs the runts until they stop making hi-tech armor to get them to make a stone hatchet*
Brainerz! Leave to Lazors alone! We need to know what we can do with this thing!

Ah.. (X)Piratez! The weird, crazy juxtapositions you cause..

[Foxhound634]

No, the Stone Hatchet issue is like a big thing; but long drama short, it has to be researched after being manufactured. Cuz there are other things. Spoilery... kind of.

Ok well how many similar cases to this are there, just so i know that i'm not missing anything?

[Roxis231]

Ok well how many similar cases to this are there, just so i know that i'm not missing anything?

Several, Especially those on the Energy Armour (ie Iron Man) research tree.

[Foxhound634]

Several, Especially those on the Energy Armour (ie Iron Man) research tree.

How about earlier in the game, from start to mid?

[Roxis231]

How about earlier in the game, from start to mid?

No Idea, as there really is no 'early game', 'mid game' or 'end game' as such.  Due to how Dioxine has set out the game, you could aquire these tech's very early (maybe even on the first mission) or not until as late as December year 3 or 4.  Its just the luck of draw - Also the random number generator in Open X-Com

[Dioxine]

No, the Stone Hatchet issue is like a big thing; but long drama short, it has to be researched after being manufactured. Cuz there are other things. Spoilery... kind of.

It's actually a shortcut. If you don't do that, you can acquire that tech from mission or interrogation or data disc or books, but this will:
a) potentially block some juicy researches for a very long time, depending on rng, like Roxis said;
b) needlessly 'burn' one of your prisoners/disks/books etc.
This pattern happens for a few items. It's perfectly normal for any item research to be available from several alternate sources. This is one of the sources (manufacture-then-research).
And no it's usually too entangled for a 'one true way' to exist.

[niculinux]

Hey Dioxine, after some hard playing i came up with this: how about to raise damage for mukets and flintlocks pistol from 29 to 30, and make their chamber so that should contain only 1 bullet instead of 3 (balancing and realistic ) on the other hand, every flinlock bullet clip may have 5 or 6 bullets instead of 3. TU for reloading may stay the same, or a bit decreased (1 or 2 points)

[Dioxine]

Nah I wanted to do that in the beginning but immediately discarded the idea, it would be unfeasible unless muskets received massive damage boost (maybe to 40-ish but armor would be 150% effective against them...?). I don't know, this might work, but it'd be a drastic change. Also this would make ammo extremely scarce, 10 shots max, making these weapons hard to use for AI units...

[niculinux]

Nah I wanted to do that in the beginning but immediately discarded the idea, it would be unfeasible unless muskets received massive damage boost (maybe to 40-ish but armor would be 150% effective against them...?). I don't know, this might work, but it'd be a drastic change. Also this would make ammo extremely scarce, 10 shots max, making these weapons hard to use for AI units...

i think instead it may be not that drastic, since for the 1 and 2 difficulty level these weapons are of rather small useful, virtually useless from 3 level and up. It may eventually became a nice change, the TU cost may be even unchanged, and since these are startin' weapon to be replaced after 4-5 months, and the black market has really nice stuff...i'd catch the chance to suggest in havin some more stuff in the BM to buy, eg 2 small and 2 medium handed firearm to buy in the bm for the 0.96/0.97 relase, along with 3-4 equpment. Then stop adding stuff and focusing on cixing and balancin util the final and last 1.0

In the end still don't like the combat stress feature >.<  but the combat flag is awesome!! It should be supposed to be mznufacturable since the very beginning of the game, and needs to be a bit less TU consuming

Edit: grammar...arghh!!

[Arthanor]

4-5 months of muskets? Regular flintlock muskets? I don't ever make one, even though it's probably my first research topic for black powder bombs. It might be interesting to add an extra mechanic to the musket (I don't quite understand what you were suggesting, unfortunately, but going from power 29 to 30 seems like a cosmetic change? And the number of bullets is not the issue..)

What I would suggest is a "messy wound" mechanic, which means some weapons make more fatal wounds than others. Muskets, with their crude, squishy lead ammunition that distorts on impact, would be great candidates for that. It would add a damage over time component that might help it shine on harder targets. The same thing could be given to a few other weapons, the billhook comes to mind, even though in melee you mostly want to make sure your target is dead, otherwise you will be on their turn..

[Dioxine]

What I would suggest is a "messy wound" mechanic, which means some weapons make more fatal wounds than others. Muskets, with their crude, squishy lead ammunition that distorts on impact, would be great candidates for that.

A good idea, but quite impossible for now - at most, it is only possible (or not, I don't know) to tweak how likely is a weapon to cause maximum number of Fatal Wounds, but it will never cause more than 3. Naturally, a weapon which causes 3 wounds even when it causes a handful of HP damage would have a tiny, but non-negligible advantage...

Another/complementing option could be making them to cause 150% hp damage, but multiply all armor by 135% or so. Thus, against an enemy having 10 armor, a hit worth 50 damage will cause (50-13)*1.5 = 55 damage (instead of 50-10 = 40), while against someone with 30 armor, it will cause (50-39)*1.5 = 16 damage (instead of 50-30 = 20). (all numbers are examples only, fine tuning would be needed to find just the right break-even spot, probably around 20 armor).

[niculinux]

4-5 months of muskets? Regular flintlock muskets? I don't ever make one, even though it's probably my first research topic for black powder bombs. It might be interesting to add an extra mechanic to the musket (I don't quite understand what you were suggesting, unfortunately, but going from power 29 to 30 seems like a cosmetic change? And the number of bullets is not the issue..)

What i meant was a more balanced-kind of thing, since lots of basic firearms in the black market range from 22 up to 20, plus have auto fire. Also having to reload after a single shot may be even more challenging

What I would suggest is a "messy wound" mechanic, which means some weapons make more fatal wounds than others. Muskets, with their crude, squishy lead ammunition that distorts on impact, would be great candidates for that. It would add a damage over time component that might help it shine on harder targets. The same thing could be given to a few other weapons, the billhook comes to mind, even though in melee you mostly want to make sure your target is dead, otherwise you will be on their turn..

Agree but as for musket these should be really effective only on unarmored targets, since enemies even in basic armors may nullify the damaged done by those, at least as things are now. None the less, such weapons are actually be able to make from little to average damage to basic armor, but only on easy difficultry level (1 and 2) in my game experience. 

hey, maybe it's a bug: right-clicking while in the hiddeout screen on the laboratory i get the fence yer stuff away screen, instead of the research one.

[Solarius Scorch]

hey, maybe it's a bug: right-clicking while in the hiddeout screen on the laboratory i get the fence yer stuff away screen, instead of the research one.

That's because Lab also gives some storage space in Piratez, and this function seems to precede the research building flag. In other words, it is also a vault.

[niculinux]

That's because Lab also gives some storage space in Piratez, and this function seems to precede the research building flag. In other words, it is also a vault.

Thanks Solarius! Hey in the meantime i managed to use openxcom extended linux executable with x-piratez but here goes one of the most epic fails: i surrounded a soldier after i shoot downa a ver small ufo, and i was not able to stun it even with 4-5 pirates armed with handles, the scurvy dog threw a grenade killing himself!! On the second difficulty level and with the option "sneaky AI" turned off...damn!!!!!! The most difficult vidoegame ever!!!

'shot attached!!