Post by: kkmic on May 28, 2015, 12:50:08 pm
Teaser site:
https://www.adventfuture.org/
Post by: pilot00 on May 28, 2015, 02:54:41 pm
Post by: winterheart on May 28, 2015, 03:43:30 pm
Post by: ivandogovich on May 28, 2015, 03:47:52 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/379wqq/commanders_it_looks_like_the_second_invasion_may/
Post by: kkmic on May 28, 2015, 05:24:46 pm
Time to kick xeno butt... again.
Post by: jackstraw2323 on May 28, 2015, 05:41:08 pm
Post by: pilot00 on May 29, 2015, 03:00:55 am
Or a remake with some elements of Apocolypse? The setting was always good, even if the weird real time vs. turn based thing kind of screwed things up.
The pics I have seen from the city, dont look at like what mega primus would look like in a modern game though. I hope it aint that to be honest. Apocalypse had its own unique theme, history and time frame in the series and I hope they just leave it at that. Now a sequel on the obviously unresolved first war would be welcome.
Post by: Arthanor on May 29, 2015, 03:25:40 am
the obviously unresolved first war
Uh?! :o What did I miss? You go to cydonia (or the.. whatever the name of that big ship is in the remake), kill the big brain (or the big ethereal) and come home, finish off the stragglers and everybody's happy unless the fish learn how to breathe. No?
Post by: Hobbes on May 29, 2015, 08:00:56 am
Uh?! :o What did I miss? You go to cydonia (or the.. whatever the name of that big ship is in the remake), kill the big brain (or the big ethereal) and come home, finish off the stragglers and everybody's happy unless the fish learn how to breathe. No?
Solomon has stated that the Volunteer doesn't die at the end sequence but added nothing about what happened to him when the Temple Ship was destroyed.
My opinion is that the Temple Ship was both a test and a trap, for the aliens to capture a human specimen if they proved the special species that they were looking for.
Post by: Rinnai on May 29, 2015, 11:07:33 am
Solomon has stated that the Volunteer doesn't die at the end sequence but added nothing about what happened to him when the Temple Ship was destroyed.
My opinion is that the Temple Ship was both a test and a trap, for the aliens to capture a human specimen if they proved the special species that they were looking for.
Ugh, now I remember why I never bothered to finish NuXCOM - railroading a "one true way" of playing the game plus a retarded attempt to tell a convoluted and shallow story when it wasn't necessary.
That said, Long War and Enemy Within made the game tolerable for me. Though it's a shame it took a free mod, and a DLC with stuff that should've already been included in 2012, to do this.
Post by: pilot00 on May 29, 2015, 01:22:02 pm
Uh?! :o What did I miss? You go to cydonia (or the.. whatever the name of that big ship is in the remake), kill the big brain (or the big ethereal) and come home, finish off the stragglers and everybody's happy unless the fish learn how to breathe. No?
It not like that. You destroy the ship, you theoritically dont know what happened to the valunteer (the only other being in the galaxy to have reached etherial level psionics), the strike force returns to x-com base and....thats it. No cydonia, what happens to the rest of the alliens, what happens to earth as a whole because this time around they were awhare of the alien invasion from the start and the aftermath of the invasion, everything is a cliffhunger (theoritically).
Ugh, now I remember why I never bothered to finish NuXCOM - railroading a "one true way" of playing the game plus a retarded attempt to tell a convoluted and shallow story when it wasn't necessary.
That said, Long War and Enemy Within made the game tolerable for me. Though it's a shame it took a free mod, and a DLC with stuff that should've already been included in 2012, to do this.
Havent played long war, but what did enemy within do storywise to make things better? I didnt find the story convulted at all to be honest. In fact for me it was more clarified than the original, because it "served" you the "conclusion" fully in the end when the etherial spoke to you. Unlike the original where you got it bit by bit and had to do much thinking. The only thing left unanswerd in the 2012 version is weather there is another entity above the etherials or not.
Solomon has stated that the Volunteer doesn't die at the end sequence but added nothing about what happened to him when the Temple Ship was destroyed.
My opinion is that the Temple Ship was both a test and a trap, for the aliens to capture a human specimen if they proved the special species that they were looking for.
How much you wanna bet that he/she "ascended"?
Post by: Hobbes on May 29, 2015, 03:15:20 pm
How much you wanna bet that he/she "ascended"?
How much do you tie all of this with the events on the Bureau?
Post by: Hobbes on May 29, 2015, 09:35:08 pm
https://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?2051261-ADVENT-All-aboard-the-hypetrain-Commanders&p=10445386#post10445386 (https://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?2051261-ADVENT-All-aboard-the-hypetrain-Commanders&p=10445386#post10445386)
Post by: kharille on May 30, 2015, 01:25:29 am
Post by: pilot00 on May 30, 2015, 01:59:59 am
How much do you tie all of this with the events on the Bureau?
I really would hope no, since I havent even tried that abomination and I have no idea of its story line. From your link though the hype seems to be about an x-com 2.
Post by: kharille on May 30, 2015, 03:30:41 am
Post by: pilot00 on May 30, 2015, 03:15:06 pm
I hope its got nothing to do with the Bureau as well. Watched a 20-30 video playthrough on youtube. Never liked first person shooters.
Its not that, there are some very good ones out there, my beef was that this 'thing' had nothing to do with X-com in the first place lore wise.
If they wanted to make a game like that, they could follow up an X-files esque series or something, not x-com.
Post by: winterheart on June 01, 2015, 11:06:34 am
Post by: Dioxine on June 01, 2015, 03:47:43 pm
But speaking seriously, I don't think any decent game can come out of such stupid hype campaign.
Let's keep it real, like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-QD_HIfjA
:P
Post by: pilot00 on June 01, 2015, 04:41:35 pm
But speaking seriously, I don't think any decent game can come out of such stupid hype campaign.
Well, you have to admit its refreshing compared to the idiocy that runs with all the supposed 'leaks' and all those expos. At least they managed to pass a "freak out" tone to it. Now expecting a decent game out of it is another question, but marketing wise, it was a very nice move.
Post by: kharille on June 01, 2015, 06:48:37 pm
https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/01/xcom-2-announced-ign-first
I SURE HOPE THEY HAVE FRIENDLY FIRE IN THIS GAME!!!
Post by: SupSuper on June 01, 2015, 07:05:26 pm
xcom 2 announced.... google for the link....- procedurally generated maps
https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/01/xcom-2-announced-ign-first
I SURE HOPE THEY HAVE FRIENDLY FIRE IN THIS GAME!!!
- snakemen
my body is ready
Post by: ivandogovich on June 01, 2015, 07:14:58 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/cIyMDsC.png)
Post by: pilot00 on June 01, 2015, 07:35:55 pm
Also hello sectohume, you look disgusting.
Post by: XOps on June 01, 2015, 07:41:52 pm
Post by: pilot00 on June 01, 2015, 07:46:04 pm
Unless I understand it wrong, it seems they are going for a PC exclusive release. This is good. One of my major issues with the 2012 version was its crippling case of consolitis.
You didnt understand it wrong, its one of the few things that registered when I read the text. Its about damn time too.
Post by: robin on June 01, 2015, 08:13:28 pm
cocky mode ON
My Apocalypse-tribute mod for OXC will be better 8)
cocky mode OFF
Post by: Hobbes on June 01, 2015, 08:18:36 pm
Look who is back. ;)
My jaw dropped to the floor when I saw it... this is exactly how I had pictured Snakemen on the remake.
Snakewomen have boobs apparently on the 1st pic
Looks like EXALT is back too... check the insignia on the 2nd pic
Post by: Postmo on June 01, 2015, 08:44:48 pm
Should be interesting to see how Xcom being on the offense changes up the dynamic of the geoscape, reminds me a bit of Jagged Alliance.
I'm very excited about the modding tools; considering that the Long War folks were able to jury rig a geoscape system that in ways rivaled or exceeded the original in complexity with nothing more than hex editing, I can't wait to people can cook up with real tools.
Post by: winterheart on June 01, 2015, 09:19:09 pm
Looks like EXALT is back too... check the insignia on the 2nd pic
And Ethereals.
Post by: Hobbes on June 01, 2015, 09:38:52 pm
And Ethereals.
Ethereals are literally behind ADVENT ;)
Post by: moriarty on June 01, 2015, 09:41:50 pm
EDIT: this one:
(https://assets2.ignimgs.com/2015/06/01/2kgmktxcom2screenshotranger-target-hudjpg-5ee69c_624w.jpg)
Post by: arrakis69ct on June 02, 2015, 01:01:03 am
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Post by: arrakis69ct on June 02, 2015, 01:01:50 am
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Post by: pilot00 on June 02, 2015, 02:48:03 am
Is similar than the onE of the ending in UFO aftermath. The unión with the aliens in the middle of the war
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That one had some interesting story. Too bad the second installment had that annoying railway mechanic.
Post by: kharille on June 02, 2015, 04:29:12 am
Ok, sounds encouraging.... pc only. Hope they have coffee machines and lawnmowers...
Post by: pilot00 on June 02, 2015, 03:05:29 pm
Mans last best hope.... and they failed....
Well the fact that they succeeded in the original timeline was a bit out of the top :P If anything this is a more realistic outcome.
On another note: Does anyone get the feel that the snakeman is not an alien?I have a gut feeling that those might be ex exalt operatives, that had gonne a bit haywire with their gene-mods.
Post by: arrakis69ct on June 02, 2015, 07:56:35 pm
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Post by: pilot00 on June 02, 2015, 08:24:32 pm
The exalts are the policemans of the future
It appears to be so.
Post by: kkmic on June 03, 2015, 03:27:51 pm
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=XCOM2 (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=XCOM2)
Post by: pilot00 on June 03, 2015, 04:03:28 pm
Ufopaedia has an article on the subject at hand. Pretty slim for now, but a great point to centralize all the info about the new game:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=XCOM2 (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=XCOM2)
" Loot system - timers to recover items carried by dead aliens or even your own fallen soldiers (similar to Meld on EW). Inventory plays a bigger role since XCOM is also living off loot and scavenging."
And there we go with the BS again.
" Viper - similar to the original game's Snakemen (on this case being a snakewoman)."
Hey Dioxine, this thing has titties, reminds you of something? LOLOLOLOL.
Post by: Hobbes on June 03, 2015, 05:21:01 pm
" Loot system - timers to recover items carried by dead aliens or even your own fallen soldiers (similar to Meld on EW). Inventory plays a bigger role since XCOM is also living off loot and scavenging."
And there we go with the BS again.
" Viper - similar to the original game's Snakemen (on this case being a snakewoman)."
Hey Dioxine, this thing has titties, reminds you of something? LOLOLOLOL.
I'm the guy who started the UFOPaedia page, so could you please be more specific with 'there we go with the BS again?" - is the info about the inventory wrong, or are you just criticizing the mechanics of the remake? :)
Post by: pilot00 on June 03, 2015, 05:34:57 pm
I'm the guy who started the UFOPaedia page, so could you please be more specific with 'there we go with the BS again?" - is the info about the inventory wrong, or are you just criticizing the mechanics of the remake? :)
The "mechanics", naturally. I have no first hand info myself.
Post by: kharille on June 03, 2015, 06:42:12 pm
Post by: Dioxine on June 03, 2015, 08:50:47 pm
" Loot system - timers to recover items carried by dead aliens or even your own fallen soldiers (similar to Meld on EW). Inventory plays a bigger role since XCOM is also living off loot and scavenging."
And there we go with the BS again.
" Viper - similar to the original game's Snakemen (on this case being a snakewoman)."
Hey Dioxine, this thing has titties, reminds you of something? LOLOLOLOL.
BS indeed, reptiles don't have tits, lol, this game designer is an idiot - and tits without teats are doubly idiotic as they're unable to fulfill their primary function (mine is a snakeman/human hybrid, so it doesn't count :) )
Also - the game might even have an INVENTORY! What a ground-shattering gameplay mechanics breakthrough :) Maybe they have learned the XCOM2012 lesson - that after removing all the "superflous" mechanics from a tactical squad game, there is little left to actually play... Just like after removing all superflous elements from an RTS game all you get is one big LOL :)
Post by: pilot00 on June 03, 2015, 09:22:38 pm
BS indeed, reptiles don't have tits, lol, this game designer is an idiot - and tits without teats are doubly idiotic as they're unable to fulfill their primary function (mine is a snakeman/human hybrid, so it doesn't count :) )
Wanna bet these are gonna be former exalt agents that went overboard with their Genemods? Or human hybridization thingies?
I hit the sectohume spot on, I am on fire :P
Also - the game might even have an INVENTORY! What a ground-shattering gameplay mechanics breakthrough :) Maybe they have learned the XCOM2012 lesson - that after removing all the "superflous" mechanics from a tactical squad game, there is little left to actually play... Just like after removing all superflous elements from an RTS game all you get is one big LOL :)
You and your inventories, we are not playing RPGs, go back to your D&D :D
Post by: Hobbes on June 04, 2015, 12:38:26 am
BS indeed, reptiles don't have tits, lol, this game designer is an idiot - and tits without teats are doubly idiotic as they're unable to fulfill their primary function (mine is a snakeman/human hybrid, so it doesn't count :) )
Depends on their primary function... ;)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/37dfe4e15ee138b8e43f9785ebdc90b9/tumblr_inline_mugfqvAmAA1s8939z.jpg)
Post by: pilot00 on June 04, 2015, 02:13:34 am
(https://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/planet-terror-2007-movie-review-rose-mcgowan-cherry-machine-gun-upgrade-ending-grindhouse.jpg)
Post by: arrakis69ct on June 04, 2015, 10:29:13 pm
Too small caliber though, try this:Yeah but this tits are only visuals. The others are weapons XD
(https://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/planet-terror-2007-movie-review-rose-mcgowan-cherry-machine-gun-upgrade-ending-grindhouse.jpg)
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Post by: pilot00 on June 04, 2015, 11:46:41 pm
Yeah but this tits are only visuals. The others are weapons XD
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The joke is that her left leg is replaced by a minigun.
Post by: arrakis69ct on June 04, 2015, 11:52:55 pm
The joke is that her left leg is replaced by a minigun.Ok. I dont see
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Post by: kkmic on June 05, 2015, 11:36:42 am
The joke is that her left leg is replaced by a minigun.Looks like the right leg to me.
Post by: pilot00 on June 05, 2015, 02:16:35 pm
Looks like the right leg to me.
Eh? I know it like this:
https://www.beyondsamba.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/LeftRight.jpg (https://www.beyondsamba.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/LeftRight.jpg)
And given this:
https://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/movieposters/169325/p169325_p_v7_aa.jpg (https://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/movieposters/169325/p169325_p_v7_aa.jpg)
Did I miss something?
Post by: arrakis69ct on June 05, 2015, 11:22:49 pm
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Post by: Dioxine on June 15, 2015, 10:51:17 pm
Depends on their primary function... ;)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/37dfe4e15ee138b8e43f9785ebdc90b9/tumblr_inline_mugfqvAmAA1s8939z.jpg)
Well this doesn't work for me, I'm not an American and I'm not afraid of tits - converting them into a symbol of death clearly speaks of a deep fear :)
Post by: pilot00 on June 16, 2015, 12:08:02 am
Post by: Arthanor on June 16, 2015, 12:45:30 am
Post by: Hobbes on June 16, 2015, 01:28:29 am
How the hell does one aquire a fear of boobs?!?!?!??!?!
Just grab a newspaper and read it...
Woman, 51, 'smothers lover to death with her breasts during drunken row in caravan' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263190/Donna-Lange-51-smothers-boyfriend-death-breasts-drunken-row-caravan.html)
Post by: arrakis69ct on June 16, 2015, 12:42:56 pm
Just grab a newspaper and read it...A new way to stun aliens.....
Woman, 51, 'smothers lover to death with her breasts during drunken row in caravan' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263190/Donna-Lange-51-smothers-boyfriend-death-breasts-drunken-row-caravan.html)
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Post by: pilot00 on June 16, 2015, 01:56:05 pm
Ask Americans.. or English Canadians (to a lesser extent). They are the only ones to know why guns are OK at all ages but boobs are only for babies or porn.
Dont say these things to a Quebecois m8 :P
Although I have to admit I never met an Anglo-Canadian having these tendencies.
Just grab a newspaper and read it...
Woman, 51, 'smothers lover to death with her breasts during drunken row in caravan' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263190/Donna-Lange-51-smothers-boyfriend-death-breasts-drunken-row-caravan.html)
God dammit....I can see now the U.S. licencing women with big breasts as gun owners....
Post by: kkmic on June 16, 2015, 04:48:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzAKyj-KK-E&t=2m22s
Post by: Arthanor on June 16, 2015, 06:03:18 pm
Dont say these things to a Quebecois m8 :P
Although I have to admit I never met an Anglo-Canadian having these tendencies.
God dammit....I can see now the U.S. licencing women with big breasts as gun owners....
lol As a quebecer living in english canada, I spoke knowingly :P Granted, the love of guns isn't actually prevalent, but the fear of the boob.. I've seen that. Not in Quebec, indeed, but that's why I said English Canada ;)
First XCOM 2 Gameplay Footage - IGN Live: E3 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzAKyj-KK-E&t=2m22s
Interesting.. This doesn't really feel like XCom anymore, but we'll see. Funny how procedural map creation seems like such a big breakthrough when it was in the very first game.. It's good to see it back though. I thought the repeated maps was because I played on my phone, on a computer I would have been quite disappointed.
I'm curious about the double overwatch too. I hated how one alien showing up would trigger all my soldiers and waste 2 overwatches out of 3.
Post by: Phoenix7786 on June 16, 2015, 06:11:05 pm
Post by: pilot00 on June 16, 2015, 09:33:45 pm
lol As a quebecer living in english canada, I spoke knowingly :P Granted, the love of guns isn't actually prevalent, but the fear of the boob.. I've seen that. Not in Quebec, indeed, but that's why I said English Canada ;)
Interesting.. This doesn't really feel like XCom anymore, but we'll see. Funny how procedural map creation seems like such a big breakthrough when it was in the very first game.. It's good to see it back though. I thought the repeated maps was because I played on my phone, on a computer I would have been quite disappointed.
I'm curious about the double overwatch too. I hated how one alien showing up would trigger all my soldiers and waste 2 overwatches out of 3.
Didnt see the English part, well that would make 2 of us (Quebecers).
On the rest....Why do I have a feeling its gonna be one more of the same just repackaged with a little more bling? I mean we had missions too in the previous one. There doesnt seem to be much of a change.
Post by: Arthanor on June 18, 2015, 10:24:35 pm
Regarding the game: The battlescape feels like a different game with the same engine. Can't say I was impressed with the snakewoman.. To me, snakemen should be fast and deadly, maybe spit poison, but not have a 15 meter tongue (they're not chameleons..). If they rushed you and then crushed/bit you, sure. Put a Mortal Kombat "Come Here!" attack?! Meh... Also XCom to me is about fighting aliens, not humans..
It will hinge on the geoscape I guess. Might be a good game even if it doesn't feel like XCom though.
Post by: pilot00 on June 19, 2015, 03:25:50 pm
Ha! Always nice to discover un compatriote!
Regarding the game: The battlescape feels like a different game with the same engine. Can't say I was impressed with the snakewoman.. To me, snakemen should be fast and deadly, maybe spit poison, but not have a 15 meter tongue (they're not chameleons..). If they rushed you and then crushed/bit you, sure. Put a Mortal Kombat "Come Here!" attack?! Meh... Also XCom to me is about fighting aliens, not humans..
It will hinge on the geoscape I guess. Might be a good game even if it doesn't feel like XCom though.
Looks like to me someone just found the cut content of Apocalypse and put it in a shaker with the 2012 X-Com and voila. Lets hope it will last more than 5 replays, that how much 2012 lasted for me (and another 2 with the expansion).
Also this stupidity with the Human Genome been the answer to everything....Yeah I understand, humanity fuck yeah: https://1d4chan.org/images/6/6e/HumanityFuckYeah1.jpg (https://1d4chan.org/images/6/6e/HumanityFuckYeah1.jpg) but cut me some slack.
Post by: Phoenix7786 on June 20, 2015, 06:46:53 am
Post by: kharille on June 20, 2015, 03:31:34 pm
Somehow I keep wishing for an idealized game where you can be one of a company of 200 and that's just one side. I suppose a lot of computers couldn't handle it, but its a step further than apocalypse.
Maybe... hire some decent fluff writers, make a heart breaking story or even 5 paragraphs of good worthy biographies for every hire. Might not be profitable, but it would help me decide who to sacrifice and who to retain.
Post by: Dioxine on June 20, 2015, 09:02:36 pm
Things were so much simpler in the past. The old XCom unified people of every continent and political viewpoint with a simple message any healthy human has to identify with: THE BASTARDS HAVE LANDED. WE'LL KICK THEIR ASS. It was speaking through the universal language of pure violence. XCom was beyond any moral judgement, good or bad - they were us, the humans, against them, the aliens.
Here we have a much more complex dialectic, as, on the surface of it, the aliens really seem to be trying to clean up the mess we have gotten ourselves into as a species through the combined weight of too many bad choices. They don't seem to be doing this only to turn us into the soylent green either, so we have moral ambiguity right there.
Still, if you disregard the story of Advent, I guess we can have a pretty decent tactical mobile game, though (definitely not a full-fledged PC game). For a mobile game, it looks advanced enough.
I'm half-tempted to play this, if only to dissect game's dialectic, but on the other hand, XCOM2012 was quite tedious and we can expect more of the same gameplay here...
Post by: pilot00 on June 20, 2015, 09:17:33 pm
. The game feels dangerously like Call of Duty, and I don't like the jihadist vibe the new XCom has either.
Oh come on now, thats hyperbole there and there. I admit the scenario is bullcrap but still....Jihad?
Things were so much simpler in the past. The old XCom unified people of every continent and political viewpoint with a simple message any healthy human has to identify with: THE BASTARDS HAVE LANDED. WE'LL KICK THEIR ASS. It was speaking through the universal language of pure violence. XCom was beyond any moral judgement, good or bad - they were us, the humans, against them, the aliens.
If we speak strictly for EU, then yes. If you generalise the whole series was about how the human race is steadily losing its humanity and becoming that which it fights. With each subsequent war more moral sacrificies with technology gains as a trade off and an uncertain future lying ahead.
Here we have a much more complex dialectic, as, on the surface of it, the aliens really seem to be trying to clean up the mess we have gotten ourselves into as a species through the combined weight of too many bad choices. They don't seem to be doing this only to turn us into the soylent green either, so we have moral ambiguity right there.
Continuing on my above reply neither in the original their purpose was extermination, you had crossbreading/experimentation and exploitation that reached inhuman levels.
Still, if you disregard the story of Advent, I guess we can have a pretty decent tactical mobile game, though (definitely not a full-fledged PC game). For a mobile game, it looks advanced enough.
I'm half-tempted to play this, if only to dissect game's dialectic, but on the other hand, XCOM2012 was quite tedious and we can expect more of the same gameplay here...
I wouldnt call a randomly generated map with set objectives on a set method of approach: Deploy, stealthily pinpoint the enemy, kill them, do the objective, scram it, advanced, but I see your point.
2012 Also was no tedious, it was boring. Once you set up 5-6 things the game litteraly progresses on by itself, all you had to do is reach that point. On the other hand from what is been said and promissed I can see this one to be indeed tedious.
Post by: Random Commander on June 20, 2015, 10:20:05 pm
There were NO story-driven forced sacrifices in the original (there could be tons of sacrifices, depending on your game style, but none forced by the storyteller - you were commanding soldiers, not suicide bombers.). I think they should kick the writers out instead. The game feels dangerously like Call of Duty, and I don't like the jihadist vibe the new XCom has either.
Things were so much simpler in the past. The old XCom unified people of every continent and political viewpoint with a simple message any healthy human has to identify with: THE BASTARDS HAVE LANDED. WE'LL KICK THEIR ASS. It was speaking through the universal language of pure violence. XCom was beyond any moral judgement, good or bad - they were us, the humans, against them, the aliens.
Here we have a much more complex dialectic, as, on the surface of it, the aliens really seem to be trying to clean up the mess we have gotten ourselves into as a species through the combined weight of too many bad choices. They don't seem to be doing this only to turn us into the soylent green either, so we have moral ambiguity right there.
Still, if you disregard the story of Advent, I guess we can have a pretty decent tactical mobile game, though (definitely not a full-fledged PC game). For a mobile game, it looks advanced enough.
I'm half-tempted to play this, if only to dissect game's dialectic, but on the other hand, XCOM2012 was quite tedious and we can expect more of the same gameplay here...
Oh come on now, thats hyperbole there and there. I admit the scenario is bullcrap but still....Jihad?Both of you seem to be forgetting something, the ability to mod the game with proper tools. So one of you thinks the plot is stupid and the other thinks the gameplay leaves more to be desired. I think 2k games made the right decision to add bonafide modding tools, because now you are able to counteract the problems they put in the vanilla game! Plus, the OpenXcom community is full of modders and I trust that you guys can make outstanding mods for it once the game comes out, right?
If we speak strictly for EU, then yes. If you generalise the whole series was about how the human race is steadily losing its humanity and becoming that which it fights. With each subsequent war more moral sacrificies with technology gains as a trade off and an uncertain future lying ahead.
Continuing on my above reply neither in the original their purpose was extermination, you had crossbreading/experimentation and exploitation that reached inhuman levels.
I wouldnt call a randomly generated map with set objectives on a set method of approach: Deploy, stealthily pinpoint the enemy, kill them, do the objective, scram it, advanced, but I see your point.
2012 Also was no tedious, it was boring. Once you set up 5-6 things the game litteraly progresses on by itself, all you had to do is reach that point. On the other hand from what is been said and promissed I can see this one to be indeed tedious.
Post by: pilot00 on June 20, 2015, 11:32:20 pm
Both of you seem to be forgetting something, the ability to mod the game with proper tools. So one of you thinks the plot is stupid and the other thinks the gameplay leaves more to be desired. I think 2k games made the right decision to add bonafide modding tools, because now you are able to counteract the problems they put in the vanilla game! Plus, the OpenXcom community is full of modders and I trust that you guys can make outstanding mods for it once the game comes out, right?
Dioxine maybe, but knowing him the little I do from here, I doubt he will even consider it. Personally I am not a moder. I dont have a clue about it. But that arguement if I am allowed to phrase it as such (no offense meant) is a bit week. If that was the case then every modable game that was considered 'bad' should have this excuse. You are paying for the game m8, not the mods that will come after. If I wanted to play the mods and mods only, they might as well have released an open source barebones engine charge it 10 euro/dollars and all of us would enjoy the mods. Not a game that is 90% Its predecessor (which is lacking in the first place) with a retouch and me paying its marketing campaign. Not it is only lazy, its unethical and essentially exploits the moders in a sense if we take the premiss of a game designed only to be 'good' after mods. Plus, if I was a developer and I saw my game getting the long war treatment, it would be a huge 'fuck you' to my psyche as a professional. Because that was not a mod that was a fix.
Firaxis created cinema material for X-Com not an X-Com game and unfortunently thats the gist of it IMHO.
Post by: Random Commander on June 20, 2015, 11:53:28 pm
Personally I am not a moder. I dont have a clue about it. But that arguement if I am allowed to phrase it as such (no offense meant) is a bit week. If that was the case then every modable that was considered 'bad' should have this excuse. You are paying for the game m8, not the mods that will come after. If I wanted to play the mods and mods only, they might as well have released an open source barebones engine charge it 10 euro/dollars and all of us would enjoy the mods. Not a game that is 90% Its predecessor with a retouch and me paying its marketing campaign. Because make no mistake about it, in this instance thats what we are paying for. Or so it seems. Ill reserve final judgement upon release.
No offense taken, I believe I must have miscommunicated my argument (which I tend to do). Of course you will have to play the game first before finding the problems that irk you the most. And even then, you don't have to be a modder to enjoy mods other people make. You pay for the game too, but sometimes you don't like certain aspects of it, or maybe you want to see something added in?
The point I'm trying to make is that yes, you should reserve your judgements until the game comes out, because you might have overlooked some important details that would have definitely changed your opinion. I anticipate that the mods will also be a factor to this, but like you said, we have to wait until release.
Post by: pilot00 on June 21, 2015, 12:02:48 am
The point I'm trying to make is that yes, you should reserve your judgements until the game comes out, because you might have overlooked some important details that would have definitely changed your opinion. I anticipate that the mods will also be a factor to this, but like you said, we have to wait until release.
Yeah, what I say is based on what we know so far. Which is mighty NOT impressive, asside from the cool focal points. But cool snakemen with boobs get boring only after so many times that you see them. Gameplay mechanics is the point in games for me and immersion. And I have to admit that 2012 did a good job in immersion, a feat in itself these days, since game developers forget it alltogether. But its mechanics were so cut down it was painfull.
Time will tell.
Post by: Random Commander on June 21, 2015, 12:15:57 am
Yeah, what I say is based on what we know so far. Which is mighty NOT impressive, asside from the cool focal points. But cool snakemen with boobs get boring only after so many times that you see them. Gameplay mechanics is the point in games for me and immersion. And I have to admit that 2012 did a good job in immersion, a feat in itself these days, since game developers forget it alltogether. But its mechanics were so cut down it was painfull.
Time will tell.
Gameplay? OH! That reminds me:
The XCOM2 Team provided a gameplay demo over at E3. You can see the thing Here, (https://www.twitch.tv/ign/v/6218650) at about the 1 hour 50 minute mark.
It's pretty fluent in my eyes.
Post by: ivandogovich on June 21, 2015, 01:37:35 am
Post by: Arthanor on June 21, 2015, 10:29:32 pm
In XCom2012, the path to success is obvious and the same every game. It takes out any incentive to replay. You'll always spam satellites and hire lots of engineers. You'll always stupidly only have 1 skyranger to respond to 3 simultaneous abductions. Such an incredibly forced mechanic to introduce "hard choices" and even that choice is usually obvious because of the rewards.
The game is too dumbed down to be worthy of anything but a "mobile game" qualification. It is simple so you don't need much info, much GUI or even many clicks, which makes it a mobile game. Looking at the video, it doesn't seem to have changed much. Classes still guide your equipment choices, I'd expect obvious direct upgrades and obvious superior specs (if they even keep the choices..). I much prefer the old system we have with just stats and the player can decide what they actually want their soldiers to do.
At least it seems like the enemies actually do something even when we don't see them in this one, unlike in XCOM2012 where they just sat there and waited for you to wake them up. I expect doing one playthrough to see what the story is. Although this time I'll have to find a decent computer...
Post by: pilot00 on June 23, 2015, 03:39:20 am
The game is too dumbed down to be worthy of anything but a "mobile game" qualification. It is simple so you don't need much info, much GUI or even many clicks, which makes it a mobile game. Looking at the video, it doesn't seem to have changed much. Classes still guide your equipment choices, I'd expect obvious direct upgrades and obvious superior specs (if they even keep the choices..). I much prefer the old system we have with just stats and the player can decide what they actually want their soldiers to do.
I give you permission to call me whatever you like, but the class system was the only thing I liked in that game. Thats said yeah, I would love to be able to give a shotgun to a heavy (example), even if it made his skills useless.
Post by: Arthanor on June 23, 2015, 03:49:36 am
In which reality do you say: "I need a machine gunner for the squad!" and get 3 guys stepping up answering "I can use a sniper rifle!"? That was insanely annoying.
The variety in abilities was a nice touch, but you don't need classes for that. In my XCom games, I have ~5 defined roles for my soldiers, that are assigned depending on reactions, accuracy and strength (along with available equipment). Only in the vanilla version is there an obviously better setup that you can just spam. With all the mods we have, you can have breachers, scouts, supports, heavies and snipers all operating well and covering each others' weaknesses naturally through equipment choices. And if your heavy gets injured, someone else can pick up the rocket launcher.
Post by: kharille on June 23, 2015, 04:56:26 am
Don't have the time, I'll probably be finishing other games. Guess the best I can do is watch metalcanyon or some of the others on youtube...
Post by: pilot00 on June 23, 2015, 02:31:01 pm
I might have liked the class system, if the skills were more balanced (admittedly, I did use 2 assault builds, 2 support builds, but only one sniper and heavy) and especially if you could pick/nominate the class when a soldier "graduates" to squaddie.
In which reality do you say: "I need a machine gunner for the squad!" and get 3 guys stepping up answering "I can use a sniper rifle!"? That was insanely annoying.
The variety in abilities was a nice touch, but you don't need classes for that. In my XCom games, I have ~5 defined roles for my soldiers, that are assigned depending on reactions, accuracy and strength (along with available equipment). Only in the vanilla version is there an obviously better setup that you can just spam. With all the mods we have, you can have breachers, scouts, supports, heavies and snipers all operating well and covering each others' weaknesses naturally through equipment choices. And if your heavy gets injured, someone else can pick up the rocket launcher.
I quite agree on that, the random element was completely ballocks. It leaves a lot to be discussed about the role of soldiers in the original though. All things considered I find no point in specialisation, except who will get the two heavy weapons and those rotate bases on stat increase needs. Naturally outside of mods, if we put mods in the discussion we would be unfair to the new one.
Post by: Arthanor on June 23, 2015, 06:31:52 pm
With this limitation, the old one indeed is reduced to everyone in flying suits with heavy plasmas. But with some tweaking to reproduce the weapon selection (ex.: what I did in the XAE), you can easily create a situation where having rifles, heavies, shotguns and snipers as main weapons is superior to spamming any one of them.
The only way XCom 2012 found of doing that is by restricting weapons to classes instead of actually making all weapons attractive. Why can't my sniper shoot a regular rifle if I need him to be mobile for that mission? Or even worse: early game, all the assaults and supports blast away with light plasma rifles, but your heavy and sniper are stuck with laser stuff (if they're lucky) since they can't grasp the concept of using a different weapon...
Of course, that's made more significant by having only 6 soldiers in your 1 plane ( >:( ). If you have larger crews like in the original, specialist roles become more interesting because you can still have a few generalists.
Post by: pilot00 on June 26, 2015, 03:36:00 pm
I don't know.. I think it's unfair to consider the new one without considering the old one + mods. XCom 2012 has pistol+rifle+shotgun+heavy (machine gun style)+sniper. The original only has pistol+rifle+heavy (high powered rifle style).
With this limitation, the old one indeed is reduced to everyone in flying suits with heavy plasmas. But with some tweaking to reproduce the weapon selection (ex.: what I did in the XAE), you can easily create a situation where having rifles, heavies, shotguns and snipers as main weapons is superior to spamming any one of them.
The only way XCom 2012 found of doing that is by restricting weapons to classes instead of actually making all weapons attractive. Why can't my sniper shoot a regular rifle if I need him to be mobile for that mission? Or even worse: early game, all the assaults and supports blast away with light plasma rifles, but your heavy and sniper are stuck with laser stuff (if they're lucky) since they can't grasp the concept of using a different weapon...
Of course, that's made more significant by having only 6 soldiers in your 1 plane ( >:( ). If you have larger crews like in the original, specialist roles become more interesting because you can still have a few generalists.
I agree with you in everything, but as I said, I compare the product as it is and not as per its tweeking. I can made a Yugo a drag racer with the right amount of time, cash and tweeks but its not a drag racer by design, so comparing it to a pure drag racer seems a bit...out of context to me.
Not the least to say, that despite its tweeks it will never have the performance I wish.
Post by: arrakis69ct on July 21, 2015, 02:22:12 am
Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk
Post by: Dioxine on July 21, 2015, 03:43:47 pm
I don't know.. I think it's unfair to consider the new one without considering the old one + mods. XCom 2012 has pistol+rifle+shotgun+heavy (machine gun style)+sniper. The original only has pistol+rifle+heavy (high powered rifle style).
And still the original was great while XC2012 was (in my subjective, personal opinion) shitty, meaning, without any mods. Not to mention that you have omitted many, many weapons (stun rod, grenades, AC, Rocket Launcher, smoke grenades, proxies & moar...), making your statement fallacious - in reality, the original has far more weapons than XC2012, especially if you count multiple ammo types. The flying suit + heavy plasma was the endgame situation, true, but it is far from true that this made the other weapons obsolete. For example, sometimes having a pistol... Oh wait. XC2012 soldiers cannot access their inventories, so they cannot have pistols. My bad. Hard to speak about colors and shades with a blind person.
In the days of yore games were judged by how they were 'out of the box', before any patches, mods and DLCs. Moddability can add points in favor of a game, but mods are mods, they haven't been conceived by games' authors and should be judged separately.
I think the developers made strange market decision here, if the title is indeed PC-exclusive. Such simple tactical games are good with portable devices, to play on the train or otherwise to kill time. By saying that it was "advanced enough" I was saying just that, that the game seems good enough for a portable game. I know there are more advanced and more fun tactical games for portables, eg. Disgaea :)
I am not an expert, however. My old mobile had only a single game, which was bowling, Nintendo-16-bit style. My new one has <no games> (damn you, France Télécom!).
As for the jihadist vibe... In that one video I've seen, what is your mission?
To stealthily kill riot police officers who are currently containing a mass protest
It doesn't take more than half a brain to guess what happens next. The riot police, seeing their buddies being killed, opens up against the crowd, with live munitions. Dozens of dead civilians.
Surely, the aliens take a huge PR hit, while the XCom cause gathers followers, but I wanted to kill aliens in this game, not conduct terrorist attacks against humans. What's next? A false flag operation? There isn't a large stretch from provoking innocents being killed to doing the killing by yourself...
So what, you say. Doing dirty work doesn't make you a Jihadist. True. Ideology does. And the vibe I received was different from the original (where civvies were collateral damage, tragic but not decisive in the face of alien invasion). The new vibe was: death of these civilians wasn't even shown. They're neccesary sacrifices for the greater cause. They're martyrs.
Naturally, this is just the vibe of that single mission, and completely subjective opinion on my part. I will write more if I find the time to watch the long gameplay demo.
Post by: Hobbes on July 21, 2015, 05:21:53 pm
in reality, the original has far more weapons than XC2012, especially if you count multiple ammo types.
Incorrect. EU2012 has more weapons than the original, especially if you consider Enemy Within.
Original: Pistol, Rifle, AC, HC, Rocket Launcher, Small Launcher, Blaster Launcher, Laser Pistol, Laser Rifle, Heavy Laser, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Rifle, Heavy Plasma, Stun Rod, Grenade, Smoke Grenade, Prox Grenade, High Explosive, Alien Grenade (19 items)
EU2012: Pistol, Assault Rifle, Shotgun, LMG, Sniper Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Laser Pistol, Laser Rifle, Scatter Laser, Heavy Laser, Laser Sniper Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Light Plasma Rifle, Plasma Rifle, Heavy Plasma, Alloy Cannon, Plasma Sniper Rifle, Blaster Launcher, Frag Grenade, Alien Grenade, Smoke Grenade, Arc Thrower, Minigun, Flamethrower, Railgun, Particle Cannon, Grenade Launcher, Prox Mine Launcher, Kinetic Strike Module, Electropulse, Gas Grenade, Needle Grenade, Ghost Grenade, Flashbang Grenade (34 items)
Quote
Oh wait. XC2012 soldiers cannot access their inventories, so they cannot have pistols. My bad. Hard to speak about colors and shades with a blind person.
Dioxine, soldiers in EU2012 can carry pistols and switch between them and their primary weapon... Feel free to bash on EU2012, but make sure that you aren't making incorrect claims. ;)
Post by: Dioxine on July 21, 2015, 05:36:12 pm
Incorrect. EU2012 has more weapons than the original, especially if you consider Enemy Within.
Haven't played the Enemy Within. I'm no masochist to come back for more after the basic game was such a turnoff. But still the original will come on top if you add HWPs and alternate ammo :) I could go on about the usage of these weapons (shotgun + sniper rifle is all you need, plus grenades are strictly limited), but this wasn't the topic...
Dioxine, soldiers in EU2012 can carry pistols and switch between them and their primary weapon... Feel free to bash on EU2012, but make sure that you aren't making incorrect claims. ;)
Whoops, I have commited fallacy myself it seems. Strange, I don't remember these pistols despite finishing the game... I blame Firaxis, because I'm such a hater :)
EDIT: after watching more of this, I'm more and more dubious if getting conquered by aliens in Advent was such a bad thing at all... :)
Post by: Arthanor on July 21, 2015, 06:25:21 pm
Incorrect. EU2012 has more weapons than the original, especially if you consider Enemy Within.
Indeed! I only played with Enemy Within as that's what was out when I finally got a phone that could run the app (and at $10, it's a steal for wasting hours at the airport!). Thanks for the backup Hobbes :D[/quote]
Haven't played the Enemy Within. I'm no masochist to come back for more after the basic game was such a turnoff. But still the original will come on top if you add HWPs and alternate ammo :) I could go on about the usage of these weapons (shotgun + sniper rifle is all you need, plus grenades are strictly limited), but this wasn't the topic...Well, I guess we all have different playstyles.. I played the game with mostly rifles as I disliked the small range of the shotgun in maps that are built to have open ground, the inability of heavies to hit anything and the immobility of snipers (did enjoy snap shot + In the Zone though!).
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Dioxine, soldiers in EU2012 can carry pistols and switch between them and their primary weapon... Feel free to bash on EU2012, but make sure that you aren't making incorrect claims. ;)Pistols could actually be quite convenient since they had unlimited ammo. With the right upgrades, they made a potent sidearm for the otherwise immobile snipers.QuoteWhoops, I have commited fallacy myself it seems. Strange, I don't remember these pistols despite finishing the game... I blame Firaxis, because I'm such a hater :)
The scripted geoscape was the biggest turn off for me, battlescape was quite acceptable.
Quote
EDIT: after watching more of this, I'm more and more dubious if getting conquered by aliens in Advent was such a bad thing at all... :)
I wonder what the aliens are doing in the background to justify them being the bad guys still. It would be funny if the end revealed that they were indeed improving the quality of life on Earth and that XCom are just old conservative terrorists.
Post by: Hobbes on July 21, 2015, 07:40:07 pm
Thanks for the backup Hobbes :D
Eh, that wasn't my intention but you're welcome. I don't mind people criticizing EU2012 as long as they get their facts right. :)
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Well, I guess we all have different playstyles.. I played the game with mostly rifles as I disliked the small range of the shotgun in maps that are built to have open ground, the inability of heavies to hit anything and the immobility of snipers (did enjoy snap shot + In the Zone though!).
One of the things I love about EU2012 is the amount of tactics possible by combining the different class abilities, specially if you're playing with Training Roulette. My current squad consists of 4 Supports + 2 Snipers, most of them with Sentinel or Opportunist or both abilities, with the Supports having also a lot of unique perks (Bullet Swarm, Grenadier, Battlescanner, etc). Add a couple Ghost Grenades and you can setup a lot of crazy ambushes.
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The scripted geoscape was the biggest turn off for me, battlescape was quite acceptable.
To me as well. If you didn't play the original game then EU2012's Geoscape is fine, but if you did play it then you miss the multiple bases, interceptor paths, searching for alien bases, etc.
Quote
I wonder what the aliens are doing in the background to justify them being the bad guys still. It would be funny if the end revealed that they were indeed improving the quality of life on Earth and that XCom are just old conservative terrorists.
This has been already discussed in a thread at the 2K forums about if XCOM would be allowed to target hostile civilians that revealed your position to Advent's forces, and the XCOM 2 developers actually replied to this issue during an interview saying that XCOM are still the good guys on the upcoming game.
Post by: DracoGriffin on July 21, 2015, 07:42:48 pm
Interesting! I never bothered to ask. :P
Miss editing the ol' EU2012 wiki with you; not much to do nowadays, other than Long War stuff.
Post by: Hobbes on July 21, 2015, 07:47:41 pm
Ahh... so the Hobbes on 2K forums, UFOpaedia and here are the same person?
Interesting! I never bothered to ask. :P
Miss editing the ol' EU2012 wiki with you; not much to do nowadays, other than Long War stuff.
And I'm also the Hobbes in Strategycore.co.uk and on the subreddit /r/Xcom/ :)
Well, pretty soon it will be time to start building the XCOM2 section on the UFOPaedia
Post by: ivandogovich on July 21, 2015, 08:14:42 pm
Post by: Dioxine on July 21, 2015, 08:18:20 pm
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 21, 2015, 09:28:16 pm
The first place I've learnt about Hobbes was actually FanFiction.net :)
Same here, I'm still a big fan. :)
Post by: ivandogovich on July 21, 2015, 09:32:10 pm
Post by: Dioxine on July 21, 2015, 10:30:40 pm
Post by: Hobbes on July 22, 2015, 08:59:32 pm
Post by: hellrazor on July 25, 2015, 09:47:14 pm
Well, I guess we all have different playstyles.. I played the game with mostly rifles as I disliked the small range of the shotgun in maps that are built to have open ground, the inability of heavies to hit anything and the immobility of snipers (did enjoy snap shot + In the Zone though!).
I always prefered a team mainly based around 3 Shotgun Assaults. Builds with Close & Personal and Rapid fire could dish out so much damage...
Inthezone snipers are awesome!
Post by: Arthanor on July 26, 2015, 06:13:58 pm
Post by: Hobbes on July 26, 2015, 07:04:28 pm
But now my favorite classes are Sniper and Support, especially with Training Roulette activated. Once I get either Battlescanner or Ghost Grenade then I use them to set up overwatch traps for the aliens (sometimes even killing all 3 aliens in a pod with reaction fire when they activate) or just plain ambushes.
I use also Assaults/Heavies on certain maps/missions but this is my favorite setup:
* Support with Lightning Reflexes, Sprinter and Battlescanner
* Support with Field Medic, etc.
* Support with Grenadier and Deep Pockets
* Support with Bullet Swarm
* 2 Snipers, one Snap Shot, the other Squadsight, both with Opportunist and/or Sentinel/Rapid Reaction
Post by: Arthanor on July 26, 2015, 07:59:49 pm
One question though: How did you manage to kill many aliens with reaction fire? My soldiers always fired all at the same time on the first alien to be seen moving, which meant they blew it to pieces and then blew the pieces to oblivion, but the alien's two friends were left unscathed. That was one of the most frustrating thing about the remake, compared to the old XCom where soldiers fire one by one.
Post by: Hobbes on July 28, 2015, 07:14:49 am
One question though: How did you manage to kill many aliens with reaction fire? My soldiers always fired all at the same time on the first alien to be seen moving, which meant they blew it to pieces and then blew the pieces to oblivion, but the alien's two friends were left unscathed. That was one of the most frustrating thing about the remake, compared to the old XCom where soldiers fire one by one.
Snipers with Sentinel and Rapid Reaction, plus placing soldiers in locations where they can only see the aliens after they activate and run for cover. When the cloak wears off, set those units on overwatch then you throw a grenade to reduce their HP and activate them and a lot of reaction firing ensues.
Post by: Qpoter on July 31, 2015, 02:43:25 pm
We will have to wait until the game's release to really determine if XCOM 2 is simply more of the same, or something special in its own right.
In either case, I sure as hell will not be paying full price for it, or for any game, for that matter.