Author Topic: Map Modding Questions  (Read 7706 times)

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Map Modding Questions
« on: June 16, 2014, 03:47:42 am »
Well I guess I'm back to modding XCom after finally trying OpenXcom :)

I already got how Rulesets work but I have a few questions regarding the original game's limits regarding maps:

1) Does the original limit of MCD entries still apply (256)? If not, what is the new limit?
2) Is it possible to create new rules for map block placement, like 2 N-S roads?
3) Related to the previous, is it possible to have 2 or more maps defined as a N-S and will the game choose randomly between both?
4) What are the height limits?
5) I supposed there's no way for the rulesets to use mapDataSets from both the UFO/TFTD games but might as well ask. Probably the best way is to convert the TFTD mapdatasets to the UFO palette.

And great work to everyone involved. :)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 04:31:18 am by Hobbes »

Offline Warboy1982

  • Administrator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2319
  • Developer
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2014, 05:52:11 am »
welcome back to the fold!

1) new theoretical limit is 2,147,483,647, or 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 if you use the 64-bit builds, practical results may vary.
2) not via ruleset, but we can see about this.
3) yes.
4) see 1)
5) sure it can, the file format isn't any different, the palette will be your only major hurdle here.

and thanks! glad we could rekindle your interest :)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 06:20:57 am by Warboy1982 »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2014, 06:23:38 am »
welcome back to the fold!

1) new limit is 2,147,483,647, or 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 if you use the 64-bit builds.

This is great. The main problem right now is that MapView can only present 256 tiles while designing maps but the no MCD entries limit means that the maps with UFOs and XCOM craft can be designed using the 256 limit, which basically means the double of available tiles in the case of UFOs.

Quote
2) not via ruleset, but we can see about this.

It's not a big issue at the moment since I'm not currently planning to do the type of map generation rules that Dawn City had on UFO2000, where there could be more 2 or more parallel roads and dead end roads because that's a lot of work. But if you're thinking about porting TFTD into OXC then you'll need to deal with the different rules that are used for the Port/Island terrains.

Quote
5) sure it can, the file format isn't any different, the palette will be your only major hurdle here.

There's a converter available made by Bomb Bloke that switches the palette on terrain files from UFO to TFTD so that isn't a problem. I already had converted TFTD's Port terrain for UFO before but the main question here is copyright, specially of the images. Since you guys require a full installation of the original game you have that covered, but distributing modified versions that use the original images is always a risk, specially since you are hosting the mods.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 06:28:06 am by Hobbes »

Offline davide

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2014, 07:52:05 pm »
Hi Hobbes

I hope that your help the community will have a lot of new Terrains/Maps to play that you develop for UFO2000 too

From the first moment that I found OpenXCom, I wish an evolution to an hybrid game with TFTD or ,
at  least, import from TFTD some contents starting from the terror missions (Island, Port, Cruise).

My first idea is to convert the TFTD  files .PCK  to the UFO palette.
the new .PCK are total different from the original.
The maps and the other files could be xcopied from legal installation of TFTD 8)

Some terrains on UFO2000 map sites uses the same .PCK (Slum, Railyard, and so on) :P

But I am a true rooky of OX and I am a newbie in game programming therefore i could get some error about it  :-[

An other OX member named Civillian, more more skilled that me, tried to collect already some of your terrains/maps

I hope that you help us to reorganize your original works :D



Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 06:04:21 am »
Hi Hobbes

I hope that your help the community will have a lot of new Terrains/Maps to play that you develop for UFO2000 too

From the first moment that I found OpenXCom, I wish an evolution to an hybrid game with TFTD or ,
at  least, import from TFTD some contents starting from the terror missions (Island, Port, Cruise).

My first idea is to convert the TFTD  files .PCK  to the UFO palette.
the new .PCK are total different from the original.
The maps and the other files could be xcopied from legal installation of TFTD 8)

Some terrains on UFO2000 map sites uses the same .PCK (Slum, Railyard, and so on) :P

But I am a true rooky of OX and I am a newbie in game programming therefore i could get some error about it  :-[

An other OX member named Civillian, more more skilled that me, tried to collect already some of your terrains/maps

I hope that you help us to reorganize your original works :D

Well, if I can help with anything just ask.

My personal advice is to get Notepad++ and read this https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Rulesets_(OpenXcom) page before trying to edit the ruleset files. Took me a while before I managed to add Mad City due to the CTDs but I've done it following the instructions. The coding has a few kinks but the more I do it, the better I'll get :)

Offline davide

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 08:03:42 am »
This is great. The main problem right now is that MapView can only present 256 tiles while designing maps but the no MCD entries limit means that the maps with UFOs and XCOM craft can be designed using the 256 limit, which basically means the double of available tiles in the case of UFOs.

This is a think that I could try to resolve 8)

I will check in OCX Tools if the issues is open too

Do you see the new tools ?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 08:21:43 am by davide »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 06:09:31 pm »
This is a think that I could try to resolve 8)

I will check in OCX Tools if the issues is open too

Do you see the new tools ?

I discovered the MCD editor remake, after I found out that the older version didn't work on windows anymore. Any other tools that I should know about?

Offline davide

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 07:28:52 pm »
I found this long topic, an year old ???

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1321.0

and the source code is on

https://github.com/pmprog/OpenXCOM.Tools

I am modding this PCKView to convert the PCK of TFTD


Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 08:34:47 pm »
I found this long topic, an year old ???

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1321.0

and the source code is on

https://github.com/pmprog/OpenXCOM.Tools

I am modding this PCKView to convert the PCK of TFTD

I've seen this post but I haven't tried it because progress seems to have stalled.

PCKView can already convert a TFTD's palette: open a TFTD .PCK file, save the individual images as .BMPs, open a UFO .PCK file and load the .BMP files. I'm not sure exactly of the steps but I did something similar when I was converting Port to UFO.

You can also try this: Bomb Bloke's Toolkit

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2014, 09:19:04 pm »
A few additional questions:

6) Map sizes need to be in multiples of 10 (10x10, 20x20, I'm guessing 30x30 and higher as well) but do they need to be square or can they be rectangular shaped (10x20, etc.)?
7) What is the difference between frequency and MaxCount in the rulesets?

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2014, 11:17:30 pm »
6) Map sizes need to be in multiples of 10 (10x10, 20x20, I'm guessing 30x30 and higher as well) but do they need to be square or can they be rectangular shaped (10x20, etc.)?
I have definitely no competence in map creation, but your question frightened me, given that I mod some missions to be 50X80 (or 80X50)
What will happen if I decide to mod a 50X80 mission with elements that are 20X10, even 20X20 ?

Offline Falko

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2014, 11:37:54 pm »
isa there a 30x30 map somewhere ?
i always wanted to test if i could get a 3x3 hangar with space for 4 crafts to work i have a fair idea how to do the geoscape stuff but no idea how to make a base-attack-map :(

Offline davide

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 12:00:20 am »
I've seen this post but I haven't tried it because progress seems to have stalled.

thanks

i apologize but i do not know previous version of mapview

I use it as a map viewer but i see a lot of features:



Tiles are limited to 255 as you said in an other post

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3459
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 12:21:19 am »
thanks

i apologize but i do not know previous version of mapview

I use it as a map viewer but i see a lot of features:

Tiles are limited to 255 as you said in an other post

Yup, I use an older version but the funcionalities look the same.

I have definitely no competence in map creation, but your question frightened me, given that I mod some missions to be 50X80 (or 80X50)
What will happen if I decide to mod a 50X80 mission with elements that are 20X10, even 20X20 ?

The side of the Battlescape shouldn't be an issue since the engine most likely arranges the possible map blocks according to the mission defined space. My question has to do with the sizes for the individual map blocks and how they are used during the battlescape generation. Usually the larger blocks (20x20 and bigger) are placed first, in random positions, and afterwards the rest of the free space is filled by the smaller 10x10 blocks. This usually also allows to have rectangular shaped maps but I never tried using 10x20 or bigger with the original game or OXC and I don't know how the engine works exactly.

isa there a 30x30 map somewhere ?
i always wanted to test if i could get a 3x3 hangar with space for 4 crafts to work i have a fair idea how to do the geoscape stuff but no idea how to make a base-attack-map :(

You mean you need a 30x30 map to be used during base defense missions that is capable of holding 4 craft?

Would you also like to have a couple of Skyrangers to be present on the map during the base mission? Although with 4 of them it might get a little crowded... ;)

« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 12:27:53 am by Hobbes »

Offline Aldorn

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 762
    • View Profile
Re: Map Modding Questions
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2014, 12:31:04 am »
The side of the Battlescape shouldn't be an issue since the engine most likely arranges the possible map blocks according to the mission defined space. My question has to do with the sizes for the individual map blocks and how they are used during the battlescape generation. Usually the larger blocks (20x20 and bigger) are placed first, in random positions, and afterwards the rest of the free space is filled by the smaller 10x10 blocks. This usually also allows to have rectangular shaped maps but I never tried using 10x20 or bigger with the original game or OXC and I don't know how the engine works exactly.
Thanks for info

EDIT : yes you did it
You mean you need a 30x30 map to be used during base defense missions that is capable of holding 4 craft?

Would you also like to have a couple of Skyrangers to be present on the map during the base mission? Although with 4 of them it might get a little crowded... ;)
Nice job !
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 12:35:21 am by Aldorn »