Red Dawn Cult Manors are crazy!

[Juku121]

You can, provided you've found one in the first place. Though personally I'm of the opinion BO snipers do as well or better against tanks, and while technically the LC is more versatile, it's hard to put that into practice.

[PPQ]

What do you mean? Just pack 6 of each ammo type per gun in your transport and know your mission types and you're set.

[Juku121]

Reloading, the RL hassle of managing the inventory (most agents can't lug around one of each type of ammo), not to mention that the choice tends to be tactical within a mission more than between mission types. It's easier to shoot something twice than to reload and shoot them with perfect ammo.

Also, the accuracy is kinda crap. I much prefer the heavier versions which at least either provide an actual damage upgrade over the BO Sniper, or just allow you to coat the battlefield in HE/IN.

Neither is an insurmountable problem, but it's a lot more fiddling with a weapon than what you usually do, all to get an at best moderate damage boost.

[PPQ]

Reloading, the RL hassle of managing the inventory (most agents can't lug around one of each type of ammo), not to mention that the choice tends to be tactical within a mission more than between mission types. It's easier to shoot something twice than to reload and shoot them with perfect ammo.

Also, the accuracy is kinda crap. I much prefer the heavier versions which at least either provide an actual damage upgrade over the BO Sniper, or just allow you to coat the battlefield in HE/IN.

Neither is an insurmountable problem, but it's a lot more fiddling with a weapon than what you usually do, all to get an at best moderate damage boost.

Yea, don't really bother with that. At least I don't.

I just generally know the mission types and pack the ammo type appropriate. If I expect tanks or heavy armored foes (like Vampires) it's AP. If I am going into caves and such Shotgun and anything else gets HE.

And HE is my baseline because it is so versatile. You don't have to hit your enemies to make an impact. And crucially most urban walls go down to one shot of HE. So you can pop walls open and let your other troops do the killing.

As for accuracy honestly I've not had much problem with it at most ranges. But I don't tend to engage at very long ranges anyway. Plus, as I said, HE is very useful for opening up holes for other troops to do the killing. So accuracy is more in the "general area" sort of thing since roughly 50% of the times my target is literally the broad side of a barn.

[Juku121]

The wall busting is a good point. That actually looks like a good use of the Light Cannon.

But otherwise, the damage radius is so tiny and damage goes down too much for non-direct hits. I prefer actual grenade launchers for killing via HE, since they both have a higher radius (so can maybe damage another enemy), better damage and more accuracy due to how arcing works.

It's the Auto-Cannon that really does this kind of explosive battlefield shaping well and in ways most grenade launchers cannot.

OTOH, I tend to engage at longer ranges, so maybe that's my bias here.

[PPQ]

But otherwise, the damage radius is so tiny and damage goes down too much for non-direct hits. I prefer actual grenade launchers for killing via HE, since they both have a higher radius (so can maybe damage another enemy), better damage and more accuracy due to how arcing works.

Oh, absolutely. Especially the MGL as it can fire 2-3 shots per turn to make life miserable for people. But it can't bust down walls.

It's the Auto-Cannon that really does this kind of explosive battlefield shaping well and in ways most grenade launchers cannot.

It's way too heavy though. Like, unless you have power armor you just can't fit heavy armor, an autocannon and much ammo on a single guy.

Plus you can't really get it in the timeframe this thread is about, which is while hunting down the Red Dawn manors. Well you can but it's really hard.

[Juku121]

True, the LC does have that niche occupied until later when the TGL comes along.

It's way too heavy though. Like, unless you have power armor you just can't fit heavy armor, an autocannon and much ammo on a single guy.

Well, I play with a legacy '50 free weight' armour set, from a time when I tried to curb grenade ranges by lowering strength to 25-30 max. Which is kinda cheaty now, but I never enjoyed the "Rookies can't even carry their gun and three reloads" system.

An HE autocannon dude doesn't need heavy armour, though. He's artillery and should be staying a little behind the front lines. That'll save you 1-2 reloads.

Plus you can't really get it in the timeframe this thread is about, which is while hunting down the Red Dawn manors.

Yep. I just wanted to point out that the AC is a weapon that genuinely fits that terrain destruction niche like few others.

[PPQ]

True, the LC does have that niche occupied until later when the TGL comes along.

If by that you mean the tactical grenade launcher I prefer the MGL. The extra magazine capacity and one handedness is priceless.

Well, I play with a legacy '50 free weight' armour set, from a time when I tried to curb grenade ranges by lowering strength to 25-30 max. Which is kinda cheaty now, but I never enjoyed the "Rookies can't even carry their gun and three reloads" system.

I have my own cheaty modifications but extra weight is not one of them. I feel it upsets the gameplay balance far too much.

An HE autocannon dude doesn't need heavy armour, though. He's artillery and should be staying a little behind the front lines. That'll save you 1-2 reloads.

A theory most wise. Now if only the enemy could be made to agree with it. Alas, they have a tendency to have a will of their own.

I prefer to give everyone the best armor I can afford and not take the chances.

Yep. I just wanted to point out that the AC is a weapon that genuinely fits that terrain destruction niche like few others.

Honestly, I am not sure what to think about the AC. Like, in the base game it's a strait upgrade from the heavy cannon. But here its more complicated. I am not sure I prefer it over the LC or say a rocket launcher. I do pack one in the extra kit section of my transport though.

[Juku121]

If by that you mean the tactical grenade launcher I prefer the MGL. The extra magazine capacity and one handedness is priceless.

The TGL has a considerably bigger boom, with both better damage, radius and terrain destruction. That hole the LC left in the wall? The TGL makes one thrice the size.

It also has more than one shot, even if not quite as many as the MGL.

I have my own cheaty modifications but extra weight is not one of them. I feel it upsets the gameplay balance far too much.

Perhaps. I do love to load up my soldiers with a plethora of grenades and backup weapons, a habit I picked up when I was playing Xenonauts.

A theory most wise. Now if only the enemy could be made to agree with it. Alas, they have a tendency to have a will of their own.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Especially when 'shock-and-awed'.

I find the biggest damage they tend to do is with the extraordinarily long-ranged thrown explosives and other HE ordnance. I culled the first to 12 tiles for everyone, myself included, and now their tendency to mill around instead of shooting my troops is kinda aggravating at times. I'd like to try Brutal AI again, but I had a bad shader crash and don't want to fiddle with the setup too much right now.

I prefer to give everyone the best armor I can afford and not take the chances.

I just savescum if someone dies to a random shot. If they survive, well, the armour wasn't really necessary, now was it? And even if you don't, most armours aren't exactly one-shot-proof under normal circumstances.

The heaviest armours tend to have their own drawbacks as well.

Honestly, I am not sure what to think about the AC. Like, in the base game it's a strait upgrade from the heavy cannon. But here its more complicated. I am not sure I prefer it over the LC or say a rocket launcher. I do pack one in the extra kit section of my transport though.

A rocket launcher has nowhere near the weight of fire and a chance to miss altogether. If you absolutely need to level something, the AC is your gun.

Vs the LC, it has slightly better accuracy and slightly worse TU costs, more ammo, enough extra damage to get to the 'holes thrice the size' territory, and ridiculously more shots put downrange when accuracy is not a concern. Like against a barn, for example. I'm not sure there's anything the LC actually does better, if you can afford the weight. Well, 180-degree turns and three snaps, perhaps. How often is that important?

[PPQ]

The TGL has a considerably bigger boom, with both better damage, radius and terrain destruction. That hole the LC left in the wall? The TGL makes one thrice the size.

It also has more than one shot, even if not quite as many as the MGL.

It's two handed though. And I'd much rather have a one handed launcher + one handed SMG in the other hand since most of the time I am not using the launcher. And than keep the HE in reserve for when I do need it.

Perhaps. I do love to load up my soldiers with a plethora of grenades and backup weapons, a habit I picked up when I was playing Xenonauts.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Especially when 'shock-and-awed'.

Me too. One of each smoke, flame and flash. That is why I dislike weapons that are too heavy.

I find the biggest damage they tend to do is with the extraordinarily long-ranged thrown explosives and other HE ordnance. I culled the first to 12 tiles for everyone, myself included, and now their tendency to mill around instead of shooting my troops is kinda aggravating at times. I'd like to try Brutal AI again, but I had a bad shader crash and don't want to fiddle with the setup too much right now.
I just savescum if someone dies to a random shot. If they survive, well, the armour wasn't really necessary, now was it? And even if you don't, most armours aren't exactly one-shot-proof under normal circumstances.

Armor isn't there to save lives. It's there to cut down on healing times.

The heaviest armours tend to have their own drawbacks as well.
A rocket launcher has nowhere near the weight of fire and a chance to miss altogether. If you absolutely need to level something, the AC is your gun.

No, that would be the mortar.

Vs the LC, it has slightly better accuracy and slightly worse TU costs, more ammo, enough extra damage to get to the 'holes thrice the size' territory, and ridiculously more shots put downrange when accuracy is not a concern. Like against a barn, for example. I'm not sure there's anything the LC actually does better, if you can afford the weight. Well, 180-degree turns and three snaps, perhaps. How often is that important?

And weighs three times as much. Don't forget that. Again, I don't cheat to add carry weight. So my most elite soldiers right now can carry an AC and I think one reload or a LC and 4 reloads + healing + stun pistol. And the later configuration is far more versatile and useful.

[Juku121]

It's two handed though. And I'd much rather have a one handed launcher + one handed SMG in the other hand since most of the time I am not using the launcher. And than keep the HE in reserve for when I do need it.

If I have a grenadier, I do want to use them as such. Keep them back and lob HE at enemy concentrations. The MGL is too short-ranged, or at least lacks the explosion radius to make up for the inaccuracy.

Yours is more of an assault troop. Not that there's anything wrong with having one.

Me too. One of each smoke, flame and flash.

In Xenonauts, all my men had a whole beltful, and I had modded the belts to be bigger, too. So more like a dozen grenades, maybe a C4, medipack, primary weapon, spare ammo, sidearm or stun stick...

I also occasionally play JA2 v1.13, or something like E5, and all soldiers are pack mules in these games. None of that silliness of carrying only your gun, two grenades and three reloads.

This has kinda carried forward to XCF. A lot of people disliked the excessively tiny nuCom item limits, and I find that I've developed a similar attitude towards them here.

Armor isn't there to save lives. It's there to cut down on healing times.

I have about six teams and slightly modified sickbays (~2 health restored per day).

No, that would be the mortar.

True.

Let's say that the AC is the gun that gives you the ability to do somewhat targeted heavy destruction, and the mortar just levels everything (including loot and cover you might have still liked to use).

And weighs three times as much. Don't forget that. Again, I don't cheat to add carry weight. So my most elite soldiers right now can carry an AC and I think one reload or a LC and 4 reloads + healing + stun pistol. And the later configuration is far more versatile and useful.

Yeah, the extra weight does work against the AC. Although your 4+1 mags plus pistol probably have about as many shots as the AC with two while doing less damage. Can't argue against the versatility, though.

[PPQ]

If I have a grenadier, I do want to use them as such. Keep them back and lob HE at enemy concentrations. The MGL is too short-ranged, or at least lacks the explosion radius to make up for the inaccuracy.

I use it as a mobile rapid fire smoke dispenser. And in that role it's priceless. If I want something to die in a hale of HE I just my mortar.

This has kinda carried forward to XCF. A lot of people disliked the excessively tiny nuCom item limits, and I find that I've developed a similar attitude towards them here.

Honestly I couldn't even use that many items even if I wanted to. Like, grenades are secondary support equipment at best. They have a place but I don't use too many of them. Except smoke.

I have about six teams and slightly modified sickbays (~2 health restored per day).True.

I do not like making too many balance altering modifications to the game. I feel that makes things too easy. And it leads to some weapons just loosing their niche, such as the case with the LC in your case.

[Juku121]

I use it as a mobile rapid fire smoke dispenser. And in that role it's priceless.

Can't argue with that.

I use instant grenades. Same effect, more flexible when everyone is carrying one or two.

If I want something to die in a hale of HE I just my mortar.

Mortars have an atrocious fire rate. Unless you have several mortars just chilling around, TGL is more flexible and still has enough power to reliably kill things without a direct hit (or the extra-tough cultists I'm using), unlike smaller grenade launchers and the LC.

Honestly I couldn't even use that many items even if I wanted to. Like, grenades are secondary support equipment at best. They have a place but I don't use too many of them. Except smoke.

KO/Stun in case an opportunity presents itself, emergency smokes/flashbangs, fire for panicking and corralling, gas is an absolute killer in quite a few cases. And I can just pull one out from pretty much anyone's pocket, which has tremendous utility.

I mean, I could disable the weight cheat and instant grenades, relay unprimed stuff around and fiddle with it the usual way, but I've found it much more fun if my soldiers have Batman belts and I can get the immediate satisfaction of blowing anyone who comes too close into pieces (12 tiles, remember) instead of waiting until their turn.

I do not like making too many balance altering modifications to the game. I feel that makes things too easy. And it leads to some weapons just loosing their niche, such as the case with the LC in your case.

Well, I can't help myself. I'm a pathological modder.

I still have aspirations of making a personalised overhaul of XCF one day. I did a limited version of it once, a long time ago.

And I don't think the niche of being a large-mag, direct-fire, automatic grenade launcher that lacks several important ammo types and can only be properly used by people in a limited subset of power armours is big enough. I mean, you yourself don't use the AC because of that, and I doubt it'll be relevant by the time you get power armour. If the LC is only useful because your men can't carry the better (but not power-armour tech level better) version, I would say that's a somewhat artificial way of balancing them against each other. I mean, you might get a few suits early on from the MiB or Gillman Heroes, depending on luck, but these are much more useful for mortarmen or assault troopers.

[Chuckebaby]

This string of comments reminds me of two soldiers building up their stats 

If you both keep going, your going to be up for a promotion soon.

[Juku121]

Well, I'm already a (?!) Commander, but PPQ might be up for Captain soon enough.