Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 232821 times)

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 11:26:01 pm »
Up to date first post with new version of first add-on and some informations additional on this project.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 05:13:20 am »
Thanks for the credits in the readme, but I didn't actually do any balance checking yet. XD I'm only responsible for the listOrder flags.
I will do that though. ;)

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2014, 05:19:45 am »
Sorry about double posting, but I feel this should be separated.

I did something for the Greater Good today. To have it out of the way, I decided to make a compilation of all human firearms and other things available from the store at the beginning of the game. This mod is therefore a collection of various Earth weapons from many creators, combined into one ruleset.

I do not claim any credit for these items (except for those I made of course), as they are mostly unmodified. However, I did some balancing changes that were absolutely necessary (as some of these items were definitely overpowered, compared to other weapons).

As I explained above, all weapons presented here are available from the store for purchase. The only exception is the Scatter Laser (that needs to be researched and produced), which was part of the Minigun mod, which I didn't want to break into pieces; I can do it if you think it gets in the way.

As of 1.0, this compilation contains the following mods:
  • Combat Knife, by Warboy1982
  • Grenade Launcher, by Warboy1982
  • HMG, by Dioxine
  • LMG, by Ryskeliini
  • Magnum, by Ryskeliini
  • Minigun, by Solarius Scorch
  • Shotgun, by Warboy1982 and Dioxine (a patchwork of their mods)
  • SMG, by Ryskeliini
  • Sniper Rifle, by toshiaki2115
  • Taser, by Ryskeliini
Although the main purpose of this mod was to create a single ruleset for the French Mod Pack, but it can be used as a standalone collection by anyone.

I hope this will prove useful to the project, or at least to someone who might want to use it separately. Naturally, I am open to suggestions and criticism. I would also like to know if there are any starting weapons out there that should be here but aren't.

CAUTION: This mod was balanced for the "UFO Extender Accuracy" option, which severely decreases autofire accuracy at long ranges. If you disable that option, you'll probably find Heavy Machine Gun next to useless (since its main advantage is solid medium-ranged autofire).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:28:04 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2014, 03:36:28 pm »
Good, now It's a little more clearly.

I am looking for the "custom grenade" mod, with the flammer and stun hand grenade.
Stun grenade is not flashbang, but it will may help to capture aliens.  For exemple :

- hand Stun grenade power : 35
- Tazer power : 45
- Stun Rod power : 65

What do you think about it ?

ps : Taser does not want to work :( Game crash when bullet hit something or reach max distance ... I search if there is an incompatibility with another MOD.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 04:01:51 pm »
Good, now It's a little more clearly.

Splendid! I'm especially curious about balance issues - I took really good care of it, but external audit is always good.

I am looking for the "custom grenade" mod, with the flammer and stun hand grenade.
Stun grenade is not flashbang, but it will may help to capture aliens.  For exemple :

- hand Stun grenade power : 35
- Tazer power : 45
- Stun Rod power : 65

What do you think about it ?

I think 45 is a tad too much for the taser, regarding what it should be able to stun (floaters) and what it shouldn't (chryssalids), and also when compared to the stun rod.

As for the stun grenades, I am not against them per se (I actually use this mod), but I don't think it mimics flashbangs very well. A flashbang will incapacitate you for a while, but won't actually put you to sleep. We would need a special new flag for this, "blind" or something :)

ps : Taser does not want to work :( Game crash when bullet hit something or reach max distance ... I search if there is an incompatibility with another MOD.

If you are using my latest compilation mod, I'm sure that's not the issue - I checked with various speed settings, everything's fine. Be sure to get the newest git, otherwise... I don't know.

Oh, and I may add a flamer, but I'm hesitant, as it looks kinda bad with the current code.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:03:36 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 04:33:17 pm »
These numbers sound balanced for human technology that works quite well on sectoids (and civilians) but becomes unreliable when thougher foes appear.

I didn't actually play with Simon-v's stun grenades, but he balanced their high usefulness by having them need a base Stun bomb, (which needs Elerium to manufacture). So it's basically a human improvement over the Stun Launcher.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 04:41:33 pm »
These numbers sound balanced for human technology that works quite well on sectoids (and civilians) but becomes unreliable when thougher foes appear.

They are not balanced vs. aliens. They are balanced vs. vanilla human weapons: the rifle, the heavy cannon etc. The Ufopedia states that these are state-of-the-art weapons, the best Earth can offer, so other designs cannot be any better without being cheesy.

Want to kill Mutons? Research something. :P
Or buy a lot of rockets.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:43:20 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 04:51:34 pm »
Oh yes, a mini-pluton rocket !  ;D

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 04:54:15 pm »
Oh yes, a mini-pluton rocket !  ;D

We call it Blaster Bomb :D

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2014, 11:58:41 pm »
Something worries me. (not you of course  :P )

I have playing sometime with UFO: AI v2.5, in my opinion the tactical possibilities are much more important than XCom whereas the ground is not destructible and the random generation levels very limited.

To add equipements may to bring more interest for the management part but it is a little tiedous if that does not bring anything to the tactical part. For exemple I find that the small equipments is not very exploited to vary the tactical game. Ok knife is a good thing, but using grenades (high cost TU) and pistols is too difficult (and I'm not understand how using shootgun with effectiveness).

Your opinion has, which are the means of improving the tactical possibilities with OpenXCom mecanics ?

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2014, 01:13:43 am »
A good question. Let me explain how I see it.
1. Pistols. I don't use them much, but there are players out there who consider them the best starting weapon! This is due to their fast, accurate Snap Shots.
2. Magnum. I can't say if it's better or worse than the standard pistol, but I guess it would be useful for pistol fans. Time will tell.
3. Grenades? How do you even play without them? :P That would be hard as hell!
4. SMG. I admit, it's kind of crappy, since it can't realistically be any better; still, I wanted it in the armoury, so it's there.
5. Shotgun. I like it a lot, as it is useful and different from everything else. It also has two very different ammo types, which adds to the tactical value. I think there's no issue here, though obviously there are people who won't use it (because they use pistols for example :P ).
6. Taser. It's more of a gimmick than anything else, but people seem to like it and the sprite is nice, so...
7. Sniper Rifle. A matter of choice, but I find it useful for the UFOExtender accuracy, so I think it's fine.

Regardless, your question is an important one and we need to keep it in mind in the future!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 01:57:43 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2014, 12:10:44 pm »
Personally I use only very little the grenades, I prefer to use auto-canon with explosive ammunition (and tank/rockets). Only stronger soldier can carry It, but It's more efficient than standard hand grenade ! And explosions make smoke ...

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2014, 08:07:49 pm »
Which clearly illustrates that all these weapons are tactically viable and have their own fans. Even pistols. ;)

Should I add the flamethrower after all? And what about the incendiary grenade?

EDIT:
More questions:
I would like to add a PDW - a light, two-handed weapon for close encounters. Bigger than the SMG, but not definitely as accurate as the rifle (but with better fire rate). I just need to find or make the right spriteset.
Another thing I'm thinking of is an heavy, or "anti-tank" sniper rifle (an analogue of the Barett) - stronger than the standard sniper rifle, but with no Snap Shot and way less manoeuvrable.

Finally, I would like to reiterate that as much as I don't like "empty" research, I don't like "empty" weapons either - ones that add nothing to the game, because they're either unused or tactically very similar to other weapons. Hence all my hesitation and questions.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2014, 08:39:13 pm »
(Sorry if I have a little difficult to write my ideas in English.)

The comparison with "UFO:AI" is interesting, because on this game I use practically all the equipments, whereas on XCom I am satisfied with only 2 or 3 configurations, because the others did not seem to me viable (but I know that is not true).

For exemple If I dont like grenades, that is because it's practically not possible to prime it and to throw it in the same turn. Why not decrase TU's for grenades using ?

So, It should be made sure that each equipments their use is particularly effective on a given tactical configuration. And in same time, possible combinations is increased.

I'm interested to test flamethrower (and any other weapons), for incendiary grenade I think it is good tactical option for blocked alien progression.

Finally for research, i'm agree with you. Maybe for later It will interseting to use aliens interogations for unlock some technologies (for exemple, engineer for unlok alien navigation or power source).

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2014, 10:33:28 pm »
(Sorry if I have a little difficult to write my ideas in English.)

Nah, your English is fine :)

The comparison with "UFO:AI" is interesting, because on this game I use practically all the equipments, whereas on XCom I am satisfied with only 2 or 3 configurations, because the others did not seem to me viable (but I know that is not true).

For exemple If I dont like grenades, that is because it's practically not possible to prime it and to throw it in the same turn. Why not decrase TU's for grenades using ?

Because would make them ridiculously overpowered? :P

Let me explain: I rarely have trouble with priming and using the grenade in the same turn. It's a matter of planning, I guess. If I don't do it now, I can always do it the next turn.

Besides, there are certain tricks: you can for example prime the grenade, drop it (2 TUs), step aside (4 TUs), then use another soldier to pick it up and then throw it. ;)

So, It should be made sure that each equipments their use is particularly effective on a given tactical configuration. And in same time, possible combinations is increased.

Agreed! These are my objectives too.

I'm interested to test flamethrower (and any other weapons), for incendiary grenade I think it is good tactical option for blocked alien progression.

OK, I'll include them both in the next version then. For the flamethrower, I'll use Dioxine's sprites, because they're nice and easy. For the incendiary grenades, I'll use TFTD ones for now, until we get some nicer sprites.

Finally for research, i'm agree with you. Maybe for later It will interseting to use aliens interogations for unlock some technologies (for exemple, engineer for unlok alien navigation or power source).

OK. Tonight (hopefully) I'll make a better diagram for suggested tech tree.

EDIT: Update of the compilation - now with incendiary grenades and flamethrowers!