OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => The X-Com Files => Topic started by: Solarius Scorch on May 01, 2016, 10:01:13 pm

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 01, 2016, 10:01:13 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/PdDVH19.png?1)

This megamod will allow you to grow X-Com from its humbled beginnings, as a two-men team travelling the world in an expensive-looking car to the global the military force we all know and love. It contains many, many additions, like new mission types, enemies, equipment and story arcs (including the entirety of my previous project, the Final Mod Pack). It also places the game a bit more firmly in the 90's conspiracy genre and its clichés.
Defeat the enemies from the outer space, the oceans the underground, but primarily within our own society!

The mod is definitely playable, but some side arcs are still being developed.

GET THE MOD HERE: https://openxcom.mod.io/the-x-com-files

Feel free to check out Ksenni's sound enhancement mod, adding a plethora of specific gun and unit sounds: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8870.0.html




For changelog, go here. (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5427.0.html)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on May 01, 2016, 10:23:18 pm
This mod requires OXCE.

OXCE download: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: R1dO on May 02, 2016, 12:28:26 am
Congrats

Having seen some of your previous modding results this could only become a fantastic mod.

One thing though .. is it for OXC or OXCE (i believed you've mentioned something about OXCE for your newest mod, but i'm not sure if this is the one you meant).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 12:30:41 am
Congrats

Having seen some of your previous modding results this could only become a fantastic mod.

One thing though .. is it for OXC or OXCE (i believed you've mentioned something about OXCE for your newest mod, but i'm not sure if this is the one you meant).

Yes, it's for OXCE+. The file is distributed with the mod, just like Piratez.

Well then, waiting for reviews. 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on May 02, 2016, 12:36:48 am
Ack, there goes the tiny rest of my free time  ;D

*downloads*  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: R1dO on May 02, 2016, 12:42:38 am
Wanted to wait with extended till i have had a bit more quality time with regular OXC ... hmmm ... but i am curious.

Unfortunately an .exe won't work here since all my computers run Xubuntu. If you can provide links to the specific repository commit [1] used for the creation of that specific .exe i'm sure i can build my own version (as i do with OXC).

[1] Or even better: SHA string (first 7 will do) and the name of the repository (and if needed branch).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 12:47:07 am
Wanted to wait with extended till i have had a bit more quality time with regular OXC ... hmmm ... but i am curious.

Unfortunately an .exe won't work here since all my computers run Xubuntu. If you can provide links to the specific repository commit [1] used for the creation of that specific .exe i'm sure i can build my own version (as i do with OXC).

[1] Or even better: SHA string (first 7 will do) and the name of the repository (and if needed branch).

Look here at the first post: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html
It contains a build for Xubuntu. But it's a bit older, so you'll experience a lot of lagging, since the game has increased view distance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arctic on May 02, 2016, 01:26:14 am
AW YEAH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Cooper on May 02, 2016, 03:21:47 am
Wow, looking at the mission generator this looks like a huge game already!

Looking great so far. Love being restricted to only two soldiers at the beginning, makes the game very intense! Very nice enemies :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: NebulaM78 on May 02, 2016, 08:43:02 am
Congratulations, man. It's always nice to see a concept come to fruition.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Kammerer on May 02, 2016, 09:47:49 am
Congratulations! You did it finally! And it'd be a great honour for me to continue the work on the translations of your mods. Hope you don't mind :).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on May 02, 2016, 10:17:30 am
Unfortunately an .exe won't work here since all my computers run Xubuntu. If you can provide links to the specific repository commit [1] used for the creation of that specific .exe i'm sure i can build my own version (as i do with OXC).

[1] Or even better: SHA string (first 7 will do) and the name of the repository (and if needed branch).

All info in the second post of this thread: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg64120.html#msg64120
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: eisenefaust on May 02, 2016, 10:39:02 am
Congrats! I've been waiting for this when I first heard about months ago.
I look forward to it's continual development.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: NebulaM78 on May 02, 2016, 10:52:20 am
After playing for a while, one thing I can say is that this mod is hard. First and foremost is the crappy accuracy of your agents (big surprise). Another thing is that the only viable long distance transport at the start is the car, which only seats 2 guys. It's tough to take down 10+ cultists with just two guys who shoot like they have eye defects.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on May 02, 2016, 11:12:50 am
Ok, played through some missions in a new campaign and this really is one new XCom experience. I will try not to post any spoilers.

1. Loved the new enemies
2. The new faces are interestingly totally rocking my XCom world, I always expect to see the usual ones and all of a sudden there is someone I have never seen before!  ;D Nice!
3. The starting transportation idea is nice  :)
4. Ufopaedia pics/entries are good, do you have a tool that converts pictures into the XCom pallette files? I so want one...
5. Of course (hey, it's an alpha) there were some things not there yet or missing. I am not sure if I report those things yet?

Oh well, I'll do it anyway  ;D Remember that I KNOW that those are minor alpha problems.
1. CONCEALABLE not CONCELABLE? not sure
2. The HQ facility has no ufopaedia
3. The weapons/equipment is totally unsorted, gasp!  :D
4. There were too many missions happening at the same time (4 or 5!)  :o
5. The Mudranger has no Ufopedia entry at the start even though you can buy it
6. Which leads to a nasty surprise when you launch it with a squad (range)  :D
7. TU costs are too high, It seems you are using the high XPiratez inventory costs, which I loath  ;D Really I mean picking up a corpse takes me 20 TUs? Please reconsider! :o
8. Daylight indicator mod is missing  :P
9. Toxi Suit has wrong Ufopedia pic (yeah i know, alpha)
10. Melee starting stats for rookies are too low. I had several persons with ~20, making anything melee useless. And yes I know, use the GYm etc.  :D

A tip: Disable the Sneaky AI setting, the starting enemies are mostly melee and will suffer from that option.

Otoh, if you don't like being surrounded by enemies in a dark forest at night....  ;D

Nice work, looking forward to playing it!
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 01:09:05 pm
Thanks for the feedback!

After playing for a while, one thing I can say is that this mod is hard. First and foremost is the crappy accuracy of your agents (big surprise). Another thing is that the only viable long distance transport at the start is the car, which only seats 2 guys. It's tough to take down 10+ cultists with just two guys who shoot like they have eye defects.

Yes, it's true. That's why I wrote the tip to research Logistics ASAP. It's still only a van, but 4 people is better than 2...

1. Loved the new enemies

Cool! Would you mean the cultists or the beasties?

2. The new faces are interestingly totally rocking my XCom world, I always expect to see the usual ones and all of a sudden there is someone I have never seen before!  ;D Nice!

Good! I plan to at least double this number, it's easy but really time-consuming.

4. Ufopaedia pics/entries are good, do you have a tool that converts pictures into the XCom pallette files? I so want one...

Not really, I just have all UFO palettes saved and I apply them in Photoshop.

1. CONCEALABLE not CONCELABLE? not sure

Concealable is fine. ;)

2. The HQ facility has no ufopaedia

Oops. I totally forgot. Thanks.

3. The weapons/equipment is totally unsorted, gasp!  :D

Hey, it's not true! It's all sorted! Just... not very well, okay? XD

4. There were too many missions happening at the same time (4 or 5!)  :o

It's a matter of RNG, sometimes you get nothing for 20 days... But it's an incentive to maintain several teams. It's much more viable than with a Skyranger.

5. The Mudranger has no Ufopedia entry at the start even though you can buy it

I'm still looking for an appropriate picture... Help wanted :)


7. TU costs are too high, It seems you are using the high XPiratez inventory costs, which I loath  ;D Really I mean picking up a corpse takes me 20 TUs? Please reconsider! :o

Well I love it, since it prevents gamey moves like dropping your weapon to reload it etc. Picking up stuff is fairly rare, do you have any other problems?

8. Daylight indicator mod is missing  :P

Yeah, I forgot about it completely. :P

9. Toxi Suit has wrong Ufopedia pic (yeah i know, alpha)

Thanks, fixed. :P

10. Melee starting stats for rookies are too low. I had several persons with ~20, making anything melee useless. And yes I know, use the GYm etc.  :D

Some are at 20, some at 60. Specialists. :)

Again, thanks for all the feedback!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on May 02, 2016, 02:44:32 pm
1. I mean both enemy types  8)
2. I can imagine that, especially as I am too impatient for something like that in the first place  ;D
4. Gonna test that. The only tool that works for me is the old unregistered freeware Aseprite 0.9something, I tried several other tools today, but the user interfaces are.... ooph.

About the mudranger ufopaedia pic: I think Robin/Dioxine are using a nice way of making those: They take a screenshot of the map in mapview so it has automatically the right pallette, then enlarge it and add a background picture. Done. Just take a look at the FtApocalypse Mod or XPiratez's Airbus picture. Awesome.

Oh and I have anice idea for another enemy type, just look for the old british b+w movie X The Unknown......  8)

hf!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Diagoras90 on May 02, 2016, 02:46:28 pm
Yay! Congrats on the release, Solarius! ;D Great idea for the conversion, totally love it thus far, both graphics and new concept. Crew limitation proves to be an interesting challenge :) However, I ran into a crush at first month's end,  screen attached.
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Hobbes on May 02, 2016, 03:48:13 pm
It's a matter of RNG, sometimes you get nothing for 20 days... But it's an incentive to maintain several teams. It's much more viable than with a Skyranger.

I had a look at the mission scripts and in theory you can have the 30 (or more) extra missions for that month spawning in a single day. The odds are low but the RNG doesn't care about the odds.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 02, 2016, 04:02:26 pm
This is totally awesome!
Here's my feedback after playing through the first month :
The "event" system is a great alternative to radar / scouting. I did get 4 missions at the same time, unfortunately.
Seeing agent Coulson on the "Dossiers" made me smile stupidly. Good job creating a bridge between the 90's and the '10s :)
It's not clear if the leather coats reduce stats
You may want to advise "psi training anytime" (I had lots of casualties, )
MIG is buyable from start but unarmed :(
The X-Com van has a not-so-discrete (X) painted on the side  ;D
There are almost too many pistols which can be bought from start, it's borderline redundant. More can be found during missions anyway, so I think you could move one to the first unlockable XCOM Report.
"unknown lifeforms" missions are terrifyingly dangerous. It's not rare to start cornered and have a team of 4 killed on the spot, during the first enemy turn. In another, there were so many enemies that the first enemy turn took like 5 minutes, I gave up. It's a mission where the enemies looked like
dark winged things. Hitchcock's 'The birds?'
On the other hand, I once withstood an assault of chu...., killed more than half a dozen, but as they were getting closer and I was running out of ammo, I grabbed a dead one and fleed. It was epic.
It's nice that cultist activity missions have lots of melee opponents so it becomes possible to get close and capture them.
Long-range view works perfectly (single-CPU P4 3Ghz here) and help shorten missions, but I miss cover (hedges) and smoke grenades so far. Lots of missions in hilly countryside.
Also, your agents stop on every step when you get closer, it's annoying chasing melee/unarmed enemies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on May 02, 2016, 04:14:42 pm
Also, your agents stop on every step when you get closer, it's annoying chasing melee/unarmed enemies.

Press SHIFT when giving an order and they won't stop.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on May 02, 2016, 04:41:43 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/4hc3fu/openxcomthe_xcom_files_a_total_conversion_for/

Getting some interest from the /r/xcom reddit. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 04:56:18 pm
About the mudranger ufopaedia pic: I think Robin/Dioxine are using a nice way of making those: They take a screenshot of the map in mapview so it has automatically the right pallette, then enlarge it and add a background picture. Done. Just take a look at the FtApocalypse Mod or XPiratez's Airbus picture. Awesome.

Yeah, I just had the same idea today... But it's not really satisfying. Maybe if I find the right background (it's much easier for planes).

However, I ran into a crush at first month's end,  screen attached.
Keep up the good work!

Shit, you're right: I forgot to add this race. Thanks for the info.

Yrizoud, thanks for the review! It's already much better received than I expected. ;)

It's not clear if the leather coats reduce stats

It doesn't reduce stats. Stat reduction is always dosplayed automatically. (But it does weigh a little bit more than the suit.)

You may want to advise "psi training anytime" (I had lots of casualties, )

I don't get this, how did you even start psi training so early? :o

MIG is buyable from start but unarmed :(

Yeah I had to change it in the ruleset from:
Code: [Select]
crafts:
  - type: STR_MIG31
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_MIG31

Code: [Select]
crafts:
  - type: STR_MIG31
    requires:
      - STR_MIG31

I didn't know about this. Thanks.

The X-Com van has a not-so-discrete (X) painted on the side  ;D

Of course! Like all those clearly market boxes in the mail! XD

There are almost too many pistols which can be bought from start, it's borderline redundant. More can be found during missions anyway, so I think you could move one to the first unlockable XCOM Report.

Maybe. I'm still toying with this, since I wanted some choices in the beginning, and all these pistols are for different things.

"unknown lifeforms" missions are terrifyingly dangerous. It's not rare to start cornered and have a team of 4 killed on the spot, during the first enemy turn. In another, there were so many enemies that the first enemy turn took like 5 minutes, I gave up. It's a mission where the enemies looked like
dark winged things. Hitchcock's 'The birds?'

Oops. Maybe I'll strike them out from the more crowded missions.
And they're bats, man, BATS!!! (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoddamnedBats)

On the other hand, I once withstood an assault of chu...., killed more than half a dozen, but as they were getting closer and I was running out of ammo, I grabbed a dead one and fleed. It was epic.
It's nice that cultist activity missions have lots of melee opponents so it becomes possible to get close and capture them.

Oh yes, they're certainly one of the most dangerous creatures. I'm so proud of them :)

Long-range view works perfectly (single-CPU P4 3Ghz here) and help shorten missions, but I miss cover (hedges) and smoke grenades so far. Lots of missions in hilly countryside.

The terrain is pretty much the same as in FMP, but I'll think of some additional blockage in the more open maps.

Press SHIFT when giving an order and they won't stop.

For me it acts as [Next Soldier], with Crtl doing the opposite.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/4hc3fu/openxcomthe_xcom_files_a_total_conversion_for/

Getting some interest from the /r/xcom reddit. :)

Awesome! Many thanks Ivan. Thanks to all of you, I'm so happy. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on May 02, 2016, 05:00:26 pm
Press SHIFT when giving an order and they won't stop.

For me it acts as [Next Soldier], with Crtl doing the opposite.

Well yes, it's a bad idea to bind shortcuts to Shift, Alt and Ctrl... I strongly suggest to deassign them in the Controls menu... otherwise there will be conflicts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 02, 2016, 05:15:40 pm
TAB and shift have been the defaults for next/previous, for a very long time, so a lot of players are used to them :-\
"Psi training anytime" is what lets you put people in the gym when you want. Since a gym facility is available immediately, I thought it was your intent to let the player train agents immediately.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 06:46:54 pm
Well yes, it's a bad idea to bind shortcuts to Shift, Alt and Ctrl... I strongly suggest to deassign them in the Controls menu... otherwise there will be conflicts.

But it wasn't I who set it like that. :o I thought it was a factory setting...?

"Psi training anytime" is what lets you put people in the gym when you want. Since a gym facility is available immediately, I thought it was your intent to let the player train agents immediately.

Ah yeah, I guess.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arctic on May 02, 2016, 07:54:07 pm
Bugs I've found that people haven't yet posted
 - EXALT Network strings are missing (?)
 - Kevlar Vest lacks a UFOPaedia description

Anyway, what even IS the MUDRANGER?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 08:46:48 pm
- EXALT Network strings are missing (?)

Yeah, haven't done them yet. EXALT is a late addition...

- Kevlar Vest lacks a UFOPaedia description

You're right! Fixed.

Anyway, what even IS the MUDRANGER?

Just made the Ufopadia page. See the attachment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Hobbes on May 02, 2016, 08:57:32 pm
Just made the Ufopadia page. See the attachment.

Oh, awesome. I was hoping someone would make a Mudranger image for the UFOPaedia, thank you :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 09:13:38 pm
Oh, awesome. I was hoping someone would make a Mudranger image for the UFOPaedia, thank you :)

Well in that case, have the image itself. Sharing is caring :)

(dirty Photoshop job...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arctic on May 02, 2016, 09:46:32 pm
Yeah, haven't done them yet. EXALT is a late addition...

You're right! Fixed.

Just made the Ufopadia page. See the attachment.

That actually looks really good - I honestly wouldn't mind if the other vehicles looked like this. It's authentic and resembles the original X-Com UFOPaedia images, and besides that it's easy to churn them out.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Hobbes on May 02, 2016, 09:58:57 pm
Well in that case, have the image itself. Sharing is caring :)

(dirty Photoshop job...)

I think the version I use is a bit longer but who cares, lol, thank you :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arctic on May 02, 2016, 10:37:09 pm
On another note, I think it would make a lot more sense to say that the Mudranger is an amphibious all-terrain APC, and you drove instead of airdropping it - it would explain why it can carry so many people, why it can go over water, and, crucially, why it has such a short range.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2016, 11:14:52 pm
On another note, I think it would make a lot more sense to say that the Mudranger is an amphibious all-terrain APC, and you drove instead of airdropping it - it would explain why it can carry so many people, why it can go over water, and, crucially, why it has such a short range.

I guess it makes sense. Thanks :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arctic on May 03, 2016, 01:00:55 am
Maybe you could even have ground-air AA weapons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 03, 2016, 04:03:52 am
Woohoo, I restarted and apparently it is possible to get some much easier xeno encounters, with sometimes 1, 2 or 4 specimens. Any new opponent is frightful, no matter the number.
Horrible invasions still happen though :)
I'm in middle of September, and with 4 hangars I just successfully answered 5 simultaneous sightings.
Attached screenshots (paranormal-spoiler-free) :
001: A possibly less visible X-van
002: This door is not a door. Impossible to open it
003: A weird circular radius, visible when you show radar ranges (R key)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 12:30:32 pm
I'm in middle of September, and with 4 hangars I just successfully answered 5 simultaneous sightings.

Good, that's how you roll! :)

Attached screenshots (paranormal-spoiler-free) :
001: A possibly less visible X-van

Yeah, but it's a bit plain. X-Com always had the logo on their vehicles, so I'm keeping with the tradition. It's not like people will recognize it. :)

002: This door is not a door. Impossible to open it

Ouch. I think I'll change this wall to something that doesn't look like a door. :P

003: A weird circular radius, visible when you show radar ranges (R key)

Ah yeah, I forgot to increase the range to cover the entire globe, thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Xtendo-com on May 03, 2016, 12:59:11 pm
002: This door is not a door. Impossible to open it
It's may be also a feature like door with broken lock, so you should broke a door. But pathfinding will reveal that fake door.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 02:12:59 pm
It's may be also a feature like door with broken lock, so you should broke a door. But pathfinding will reveal that fake door.

Yeah, it's too cheap.
I think I'll release a bugfix now, why not.

EDIT: Version 0.1.1 uploaded. I fixed (hopefully) all reported bugs, rebuilt listOrders (for now, only for items; took me half a day) and added a few weapons. Details in the first post.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 03, 2016, 03:41:55 pm
Fortunately I had one captured dynamite - I really wanted to question to the locked-up guy.
My September activity ended up being a 10-12 continuous streak of mostly doable missions. I got 12 wounded agents, and bagged 10 different species (5 alive)  8)
I did catch a single, hmm, "warm" enemy. I was lucky enough to find him in a forest, where his shots go very wild. It was an epic fight, since I had nothing stronger than .45s, and in the end, the majority of the map was gone.
The transport system works extremely well as a gameplay element. The fact that it requires a 2x2 "hangar" is a bit strange, a 1x1 "briefing room" would be more suitable IMO.
One alien lifeforms unlocked the vanilla "alien origins" project, I don't know if it's intended.
My only gripes so far:
Medikit with only 3 heals is really not much. I often expended two full medikits per mission.
Some big research topics do nothing other than unlock more research topics. It's a bit of a downer to gain nothing concrete, no matter how small (hired xenobiologist could have contacts to buy a few things).
The "tone" of some ufopedia characters seems a bit out of character, I rather expected some "serious-sounding" people.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 04:22:14 pm
Fortunately I had one captured dynamite - I really wanted to question to the locked-up guy.
My September activity ended up being a 10-12 continuous streak of mostly doable missions. I got 12 wounded agents, and bagged 10 different species (5 alive)  8)

You're doing very well. May I ask which difficulty?

I did catch a single, hmm, "warm" enemy. I was lucky enough to find him in a forest, where his shots go very wild. It was an epic fight, since I had nothing stronger than .45s, and in the end, the majority of the map was gone.

I really can't figure out what it was. :) Did it literally breathe fire? If so, then I know. :)

The transport system works extremely well as a gameplay element. The fact that it requires a 2x2 "hangar" is a bit strange, a 1x1 "briefing room" would be more suitable IMO.

That's not really doable at this point, a transporter must be a physical vehicle which needs to have a garage of sorts. And only big garages are possible.

One alien lifeforms unlocked the vanilla "alien origins" project, I don't know if it's intended.

I don't know either. :) Still balancing such things.

My only gripes so far:
Medikit with only 3 heals is really not much. I often expended two full medikits per mission.

As intended, otherwise why research? :)

Some big research topics do nothing other than unlock more research topics. It's a bit of a downer to gain nothing concrete, no matter how small (hired xenobiologist could have contacts to buy a few things).

What things? Seriously, I want ideas.

The "tone" of some ufopedia characters seems a bit out of character, I rather expected some "serious-sounding" people.

But serious people are rarely serious! :) Only idiots who pretend to be serious are serious all the time. :D
No, really. They are professionals, but X-Com attracts weirdos. Just look at the agents' faces...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arctic on May 03, 2016, 05:12:42 pm
Could always ask to get alternate hangars in OXC.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on May 03, 2016, 05:43:18 pm
Could always ask to get alternate hangars in OXC.

A long standing request....
Yep, been asked before.  I believe one of the challenges is rendering the 1X1 hangar/garage in the Battlescape (and populating the craft into it).  My understanding is that current hard coding in the engine sets all hangars/craft holding facitilites has 2X2s.

Maybe a great coder will come along and change that, but I don't think the primary dev team is interested.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 03, 2016, 06:05:27 pm
If base defense doesn't happen in XCOM Files, no problem of 2x2 hangar + vehicle.
You're doing very well. May I ask which difficulty?
The middle one - but after my first catastrophic campaign (20 dead in 2 months) I save often  :-[
Did it literally breathe fire?
Tracking it in forest and tall grass wasn't a problem :D
Medical equipment : The upgrade does not feel like an upgrade. Since it's one-shot use, you spend a lot of time picking things from pockets to heal a character with 3 wounds, and you can forget about throwing the complete kit around.
About characters : The way I see it, weirdos are dead-serious in their obsession. The funny ones are unententional, they are the ones who don't realize that other people don't share the same passionated opinions :) Ex: "What, you do don't like metal music ? It's because you never heard the right one. You HAVE to listen to this, NOW. So? So?"
By the way, autopsies and interrogations seem to be extremely long. The first time you have a new specimen, you're happy, but by the time the lab can start processing it, you often have faced the same kind several times. In early campaign I tried to catch a corpse or live specimen and flee, even if it cost me one or two agents, but now it really doesn't look like a good trade.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 06:32:45 pm
If base defense doesn't happen in XCOM Files, no problem of 2x2 hangar + vehicle.

Well it does happen later, but the point is, some people want smaller hangars for various reasons. I'm kinda on the fence here myself.

The middle one - but after my first catastrophic campaign (20 dead in 2 months) I save often  :-[

No worries, me too. :P

Medical equipment : The upgrade does not feel like an upgrade. Since it's one-shot use, you spend a lot of time picking things from pockets to heal a character with 3 wounds, and you can forget about throwing the complete kit around.

Yeah, this one's not really an upgrade, more of a complimentary kit. Keep digging :)

About characters : The way I see it, weirdos are dead-serious in their obsession. The funny ones are unententional, they are the ones who don't realize that other people don't share the same passionated opinions :) Ex: "What, you do don't like metal music ? It's because you never heard the right one. You HAVE to listen to this, NOW. So? So?"

Maaaaaybe. But it's just to add some comic relief to the otherwise hardcore mod. :)

By the way, autopsies and interrogations seem to be extremely long. The first time you have a new specimen, you're happy, but by the time the lab can start processing it, you often have faced the same kind several times. In early campaign I tried to catch a corpse or live specimen and flee, even if it cost me one or two agents, but now it really doesn't look like a good trade.

Believe me, it pays off. The research is slow, yes, and I will keep balancing it, but I think it works for now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on May 03, 2016, 10:28:01 pm
Ex: "What, you do don't like metal music ? It's because you never heard the right one. You HAVE to listen to this, NOW. So? So?"

Doesn't sound like a person who has a sensitive, high-profile job, unless in academia or California maybe :) I'll give you a better example: Putin is quite a joker but wouldn't you call him dead serious? :)

But I think it's mostly movies. Show me a 80's/90's hero who wasn't humorous. Fuckin' Fox Mulder. But even Rambo had silly moments and it was all right with him :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 10:33:40 pm
I think it's not really as important, it's not like this mod is a bad pun hurricane like Piratez. :) There's a few jokes here and there, but nothing that would destroy the immersion.

When the Commendations get into the OXCE+ branch, I'll probably spice it up too, since the current ones are so Eaglelandish (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Eagleland) that they make me feel like my eyes are being burned out. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on May 03, 2016, 10:54:11 pm
Not really a fan of those commendations, huh?  ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 11:09:41 pm
Not really a fan of those commendations, huh?  ???

They're very well done, I just don't really dig the style. Michael Bay could learn from them :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Countdown on May 03, 2016, 11:12:14 pm
Not really a fan of those commendations, huh?  ???

I'm a fan! But I'm American, so maybe that makes his point?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 03, 2016, 11:16:49 pm
I'm a fan! But I'm American, so maybe that makes his point?

I'm definitely not a US hater, but you do seem to have a tendency for emotional overzealousness over military things. :) (At least judges by US pop culture.)

Anyway, here's a glimpse of a (far) future: Nazi cities on the Moon!

(Of course the pyramids will probably have to go, but maybe aliens will be there too, who knows.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on May 03, 2016, 11:41:47 pm
Neat! It's like in Hobbes' book!

I hope Zoey got her space suit ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 04, 2016, 01:35:41 am
Little quirk : It's possible to get points of "Artifacts recovered" by bringing unresearched weapons into a mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 04, 2016, 01:56:50 am
Little quirk : It's possible to get points of "Artifacts recovered" by bringing unresearched weapons into a mission.

Can you please tell me which ones? I'm hunting down remnants of this bug.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Hobbes on May 04, 2016, 02:31:52 am
Neat! It's like in Hobbes' book!

Nazi UFOs invading from the Moon... what a classic. Too bad Hitler didn't made a reappearance himself ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Blank on May 04, 2016, 10:24:57 am
My first mission involved my two agents in suits running away from zombies in the mountains while fetching more ammo from the rental car. Still somehow felt more professional than the average x-com rookie. Died all the same.

How come I can't take my dog in the mystery machine X-Com van? I'm guessing it's to stop me fitting a tank in there
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 04, 2016, 11:17:11 am
My first mission involved my two agents in suits running away from zombies in the mountains while fetching more ammo from the rental car. Still somehow felt more professional than the average x-com rookie. Died all the same.

Certainly more cinematic than your average vanilla mission :)
Yeah, zombies are dangerous for a two men team. Once you have four, and learn basic tactics to deal with Zombies, it's not a big problem.

How come I can't take my dog in the mystery machine X-Com van? I'm guessing it's to stop me fitting a tank in there

Basically, yes. I'm working on it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 04, 2016, 04:06:47 pm
In a zombie mission, the score counted 10 killed, 1 captured, 11 corpses ??
I want to say the pistols compliment each other very well. I often had people dual wield a beretta and a 45, then when agents become very accurate, a rifle / luger combo tends to dominate (accurate at all ranges).
Glock seemed slightly sub-par, because at the ranges where auto-fire is efficient, melee seemed more reliable. And since I never know the armor of strange lifeforms, I really hesitate to depend on low-caliber guns. I did however use it very reliably on cult members.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on May 04, 2016, 05:31:03 pm
The moon texture should be grey. I know that looks a bit boring, but... well it would be realistic then  ;D

Hey wait we are talking about Nazi cities on the moon.....  :o  Forget realism...  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 04, 2016, 05:44:19 pm
In a zombie mission, the score counted 10 killed, 1 captured, 11 corpses ??

Hmm, I'm not sure what happened... I have some ideas, but nothing substantial.

I want to say the pistols compliment each other very well. I often had people dual wield a beretta and a 45, then when agents become very accurate, a rifle / luger combo tends to dominate (accurate at all ranges).
Glock seemed slightly sub-par, because at the ranges where auto-fire is efficient, melee seemed more reliable. And since I never know the armor of strange lifeforms, I really hesitate to depend on low-caliber guns. I did however use it very reliably on cult members.

Glad to hear all that. Congrats on good insight regarding the weapons, this is more or less how it's supposed to work. But I still like Glocks, they have very good rate of fire which compensates for the lower damage per bullet. Most monsters don't have much armour, but "most" can be problematic. :)

The moon texture should be grey. I know that looks a bit boring, but... well it would be realistic then  ;D

Yeah, I will experiment with that when the time comes. But it's one of a billion features I want to add, so I'm not even sure which ones will be realized. :P And this one is definitely a distant one, right now I will focus on stuff like the Syndicate (Men in Black wannabes), rogue scientists and elements of TFTD.

Hey wait we are talking about Nazi cities on the moon.....  :o  Forget realism...  :P

What's so unrealistic about it? Given the necessary tech, it's as trivial as the Cydonia base :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 04, 2016, 05:47:08 pm
Can you please tell me which ones? I'm hunting down remnants of this bug.
Oh it's actually flares which are not loaded (STR_FLARE_PISTOL_CLIP). STR_FLARE_PISTOL also seems to have 3 recovery points, but it doesn't cause the same behavior (I had it researched)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 04, 2016, 05:50:49 pm
Oh it's actually flares which are not loaded (STR_FLARE_PISTOL_CLIP). STR_FLARE_PISTOL also seems to have 3 recovery points, but it doesn't cause the same behavior (I had it researched)

Got it. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Kjotleik on May 05, 2016, 11:58:11 pm
This looks awesome, man!   8)

I must admit that during the first few "start a new campaign" moments, I had absolutely no idea what to expect. And it turns out it is amazing!
I got killed off easily (night missions, flares didn't do me much good) in the jungle with a two-man team.

After I figured out I could get a four-man team with a van, things started to go a little bit better (a later game, I lost the first two/three as I didn't do anything but run around being amazed by the new (very dangerous, at least on superhuman difficulty) and weird Strange Creatures.

Also, I love the fact we have more than just one gun to choose from in the beginning. Having slightly different alternatives makes for good role-play. I could give soldiers their "native" guns, for starters.

Nice idea with the flag, by the way. I hope you get it for all nationalities in the not so distant future. I must admit I like it so much that it is a letdown when I hire a soldier with no flag on the soldier-screen now.  :'(

And those...
bats
...are crazy numerous. One of them is too easy to handle, but I experience them just swarming towards the van in such huge numbers, even my four-man squad is unable to take them out quickly enough. I still haven't managed to get one of those corpses back home (I've had to just abort after shooting down three/four in the first few turns).

I have only experienced a crash once. Unfortunately, there were no game-crash screen. So I don't know what caused it. And since I haven't been able to reproduce it, I'm in the dark about the reason. Probably not a runtime-error. I think Windows would warn me about that, if it were the case. I'll see if I can make it happen again, but I doubt it.

In short: I die A LOT!  ;D
From what I've seen so far... I LOVE THIS MOD!   :) ;D 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on May 13, 2016, 11:41:09 pm
Always wanted x-com (like) game like that. Starting as a small agency trying to solve "unsolved cases" just to find out later on that "aliens" stand behind all these supernatural phenomens. After that proper x-com begin, world change, big factions are created to fight with global threat. I want x-com (like) game almost to be a grand strategy with tactical turn based squad combat (real tactical gameplay with proper turn based combat with speed factor no that stupid "I Go You Go" system). Probably not going to happen...someone have phone number to Paradox? :)

About the mod, beggining is great. Really like "2/4 man team" it's hard to survive and its satisfying when you make it. Smal squad force you to play more carefully and care about your squad members (when you have 12 and more people in normal x-com, rookie meat shield is common tactics :)) This is first time for me in x-com that i care about characters and feel attachment to them, even "roleplay" a littlebit becouse of possibility to choose they nation flag and even appearance. Portraits in tactical missions helps too. Gym ruined first impresion. Becouse i work hard with 4 guys in mission to survive and get exprience/stats increase just to find out that 10 guys in base increased a lot of stats peacefully. Gym (maybe change name for training facility or something less generic) should have 4 spaces (or maybe make two variants with 3 and 6 spaces, something like large living quarters) and train stats a lot slower. For me stats should be trained only in combat so i would change gym for shooting range thats train only shooting accuracy. Don't play OXC/x-com to much becouse it have to simplistic approach to tactical gameplay but i will definitly play full version of this mod. Even in this early state show great attention to details.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Blank on May 14, 2016, 04:01:12 am
Funny you mentioned paradox, I was thinking a cool build feature would be painting the countries different colors as they get infiltrated so you can visually see the alien's presence spread. I think those grand strategy elements are the things many of the later clones and sequels missed out on.

But yeah there's something that feels right about this mod that brings to mind other similar games of the era.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 14, 2016, 11:12:11 am
Thanks for the posts guys! I'm really happy the mod works in idea and execution. And I'm also happy people share my taste in games!
About the gym, I had my reservations too, it but it is necessary to maintain game balance. Furthermore, it's logical. After all your team consists of pretty random people who are a bit...unpolished despite being government agents. I mean, just look at their mugs! They mostly look like this:

(https://onlifeandstuff.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/je.jpg)

Or this:

(https://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01113/pagent_1113340c.jpg)

Or this:

(https://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Melissa-McCarthy-a-CIA-Agent-in-Spy-Trailer-650x366.jpg)

Or this:

(https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/sites/default/files/styles/mw_collection_910/public/photos/20141104-menner-mw22-1820-001.jpg?itok=tlNgVIxL)

Certainly not best of the best if you ask me. But they can become these if they just get off their asses and concentrate on their training!
This was done to justify their incredible stat advancement, which wouldn't be possible on already trained people. So I rfeally recommend training everybody rather than dividing your men between the combat team and the training team. Because training is essential.
Having said that, this system will be improved when the code is in place. For now I think it's the best I can do.

As for the colouring countries, this is certainly a good idea, but not really my area of expertise. :D

The next release will take some time, as I need to make some additional armours (god-damn diving suits!) and this is always slow. So please be patient! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on May 14, 2016, 12:08:48 pm
Well i can always don't use gym at all or restric myself to use less spots, no big deal.

1) Ther are around 33 blank spaces in flag selection, probably they are waiting for new flags but its always posiblity that this was not intended.
2) To much money at starts and after first month. We are a new organisation but all countries are like "shut up and take my money". But this kind of balance probably bettert to leave for full version of the mod.

I am curious abaut "transition" from x-files to FMP we wil have a super soldiers back then so game could be very easy or we wil have a better aliens from the beggining and it will be still hard? Mod is in rough state so don't want to "waste" time on proper playthrough to check that out.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 14, 2016, 01:09:38 pm
Well i can always don't use gym at all or restric myself to use less spots, no big deal.

Sure. Or if you want you can also regulate how good it is, on a 1 - 100 scale - right now it's at 30%.

1) Ther are around 33 blank spaces in flag selection, probably they are waiting for new flags but its always posiblity that this was not intended.

Yeah, I didn't have the time to address it yet. The number of flags corresponds to the number of name files, so I'm not sure what is different...

2) To much money at starts and after first month. We are a new organisation but all countries are like "shut up and take my money". But this kind of balance probably bettert to leave for full version of the mod.

Yep, this is still to be balanced.

I am curious abaut "transition" from x-files to FMP we wil have a super soldiers back then so game could be very easy or we wil have a better aliens from the beggining and it will be still hard? Mod is in rough state so don't want to "waste" time on proper playthrough to check that out.

I'm curious myself. :) I need testers! :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on May 16, 2016, 12:06:56 am
1) Mudranger purpose? It's useless, am i missing something?
2) Blackops Smart Gun - no magazines and ufopedia entry.
3) Would be nice to have number of bullets in magazine in ufopedia weapons entries.
4) Starting weapons like Makarov, Tokarev TT-30 can be researched after enemy drop them. Research don't give any new info.
5) Some encounters are imposible to win (Super Human). I'm okay with that but we can always talk about better balance.
6) Hard to stun ? Easiest oponent take 4-5 hits with electric club next one take 8-9 hits.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2016, 12:45:09 am
Hello and thanks for feedback.

1) Mudranger purpose? It's useless, am i missing something?

No, it's actually quite hard to use. You can get lucky and have a mission close enough, and therefore take more people, but it's rare. Still, you can try "abusing" it by keeping it in a base that you know is near something important - should be helpful with HQ raids, for example.
Anyway, the Mudranger is pretty experimental. An upgrade is planned, where it has much better range (after a research).

2) Blackops Smart Gun - no magazines and ufopedia entry.

Yeah... Something's wrong here. I'll investigate.
EDIT: Found the error... One magazine type was missing and it broke the entire Ufopaedia entry.

3) Would be nice to have number of bullets in magazine in ufopedia weapons entries.

Yeah, maybe it can be done automatically somehow... I don't feel like adding it manually. :P

4) Starting weapons like Makarov, Tokarev TT-30 can be researched after enemy drop them. Research don't give any new info.

Yes, their Ufopaedia entry should be unavailable before research. Fixed in next version.

5) Some encounters are imposible to win (Super Human). I'm okay with that but we can always talk about better balance.

Sure, the mod turned out to be hard. No need to go Superhuman to get some adrenaline. ;) But it can be done.

6) Hard to stun ? Easiest oponent take 4-5 hits with electric club next one take 8-9 hits.

That's probably very bad luck, as long as all these hits landed. Sometimes one good hit is enough to down a Black Lotus Follower, sometimes three hits... Hitting them is the problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: TheProfessional on May 17, 2016, 01:19:10 pm
*starts up mod, face brightens up as i read through the ufopedia entries*
*lets out a laugh as my agents enter a "flight" to south Africa, to investigate cult activity*
*gets greeted by 20 green hooded cult members that are running around a warehouse*
*my agents start gunning people down, taking captives is no longer of concern*
*an madman survives two shotgun reaction shots and slays my one agent with an axe*
*I just tell my other agent to run away to extract as he is surrounded, and imagine that he drives them over with the car while fleeing*

10/10 Best mod ever
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2016, 02:37:55 pm
*starts up mod, face brightens up as i read through the ufopedia entries*
*lets out a laugh as my agents enter a "flight" to south Africa, to investigate cult activity*
*gets greeted by 20 green hooded cult members that are running around a warehouse*
*my agents start gunning people down, taking captives is no longer of concern*
*an madman survives two shotgun reaction shots and slays my one agent with an axe*
*I just tell my other agent to run away to extract as he is surrounded, and imagine that he drives them over with the car while fleeing*

Nice, that's how you're supposed to play this! ;D (In the beginning anyway.)

I'll probably release an update very soon. I don't exactly want to, because I'm halfway through the next arc (Tleth), but there are too many important fixes. The only problem is that you won't be able to finish that "sub-quest" yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 17, 2016, 03:36:15 pm
I'm not sure what is the intended "scope" of this first episode. Cults have their research/mission tree, but it seems to reach a dead-end.
Zombies/mutants open up some stuff, but with no facility to manufature (extract), I guess it's unfinished.
So, after 6-7 months, I feel like I'm running out of stuff to do. Missions starts getting repetitive, always the same 4 cults, and the same dozen of strange creatures appearing. No covert operation so far.
Note, some species indicate vulnerabilities, but there's no related weapon (smoke, fire).
In any case, the gameplay with a limited number of agents is really ace. My only critics would be :
- magnum range seems absurdly good. It seems to outclass two-handed weapons like SMG, AK, and even the basic hunting rifle for long-range shooting, and this is counter-intuitive. (I actually unlocked the gun pretty late, when all active agents have 90-100+ accuracy)
- the mechanism of shotguns works very bad with the extended range. The AI keeps shooting even with zero% chance, and I don't think I have ever had an agent wounded by shotgun, ever.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2016, 04:42:55 pm
I'm not sure what is the intended "scope" of this first episode. Cults have their research/mission tree, but it seems to reach a dead-end.

Well, you can destroy all four cults (except for EXALT, because it's currently bugged). It's pretty difficult, but perfectly doable.
Researching cults will also give new stuff, like "deeper" factions, but it's not there yet.

Zombies/mutants open up some stuff, but with no facility to manufature (extract), I guess it's unfinished.

Correct. This arc is also half-done. The next steps are planned and it'll be epic. :)

So, after 6-7 months, I feel like I'm running out of stuff to do. Missions starts getting repetitive, always the same 4 cults, and the same dozen of strange creatures appearing. No covert operation so far.

Yeah, there's not much diversity now. But bricks are slowly falling in place.

Note, some species indicate vulnerabilities, but there's no related weapon (smoke, fire).

Such weapons generally require second X-Com advance (STR_MILESTONE_2), but sometimes can be found earlier.

- magnum range seems absurdly good. It seems to outclass two-handed weapons like SMG, AK, and even the basic hunting rifle for long-range shooting, and this is counter-intuitive. (I actually unlocked the gun pretty late, when all active agents have 90-100+ accuracy)

I'll think about it. I have very mixed feelings regarding Magnum. :)

- the mechanism of shotguns works very bad with the extended range. The AI keeps shooting even with zero% chance, and I don't think I have ever had an agent wounded by shotgun, ever.

I think it's not as bad, though indeed they rarely hit. But the only thing I can do is removing pellet weapons from their inventories, and that's out of the question. I prefer to accept that sometimes they're not very effective.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on May 17, 2016, 06:19:20 pm
By the way, there was a very hard fight (parked by the front door of a ganger outpost, no cover at all, easily 12 shooters by turn 2) that I have been able to turn around by choosing a "fighting distance" carefully :
I walked away to a spot, where the chance of pistol snap shots got down -30 (the dropoff is a flat number, not multiplicative).
At such distance, my marksmen's chance got down from 60% to 30% - but the opposite gangers are less accurate, so their chance dropped from, let's say, 40%, to 10%. My effective firepower was halved, but theirs was divided by 4 - and the AI kept shooting instead of rushing my agents, since they were "in plain view".
This let me finish the mission with no dead, though the entire team was wounded (78 days for one agent  :o)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on May 23, 2016, 05:01:46 am
Very interested in playing this mod.

A query: Do OpenXcom extended mods need something other than thrown in modfolder > play to work? Because I have been meaning to have fun with this (and PirateZ), but I don't have a PC right now so I'm playing with the Android version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2016, 09:01:31 am
A query: Do OpenXcom extended mods need something other than thrown in modfolder > play to work? Because I have been meaning to have fun with this (and PirateZ), but I don't have a PC right now so I'm playing with the Android version.

Apart from the exe you also need the correct version of vanilla Openxcom files, like the rulesets. That's why they are packaged with the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on May 23, 2016, 11:31:37 am
So unless someone makes a .exe for the Android version, its a no-go?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...








...OOOOOOOOOOOO...

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2016, 12:33:20 pm
So unless someone makes a .exe for the Android version, its a no-go?

Yes, it seems so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Xtendo-com on May 23, 2016, 05:47:06 pm
So unless someone makes a .exe for the Android version, its a no-go?
I tried to make android version in last weekend using already existing source code of android version, but it was not trivial just to compile a project. Will try again in next weekends.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on May 23, 2016, 07:09:41 pm
I tried to make android version in last weekend using already existing source code of android version, but it was not trivial just to compile a project. Will try again in next weekends.
Salute!
You're doing Gollop's work, dude!
Always had ideas of something a lot like this mod.
Anyone try that for piratez and other X-COM Extended mods?



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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 26, 2016, 09:48:39 am
Always had ideas of something a lot like this mod.

See? Me too! ^_^

Anyone try that for piratez and other X-COM Extended mods?

Piratez use exactly the same .exe as X-Com Files.

Xtendo-com, if you succeed with the android version, I think it'd be best if you contact Meridian - maybe he'll be interested in putting the link in his development thread.

EDIT:

A new version 0.1.2 is up!


Download link in the first post.

I haven't tackled the problem with transparent walls yet, but I'm making progress. It's a slow job...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on May 28, 2016, 07:58:01 pm
I tried to make android version in last weekend using already existing source code of android version, but it was not trivial just to compile a project. Will try again in next weekends.
You are our(my & my friends) idol now. We will pray for you all day long. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on May 30, 2016, 07:47:32 pm
So after playing for some time (i love the experience) i found some bugs, that i'd like to report.

First of all sometimes, during cult base attack i got CTD during enemy movement. I noticed, that it was always caused by enemy unit walking on specific tile (for example in deasert base: just below the western stairs).

Some strings are missing (mostly related to EXALT, but also this frog(?) from Dagon church and second milestone).

Blackops Smartgun is availible for purchase from the beginning (but without ammo) and does not have Ufopedia entry.

Sometimes there are two spawned missions in the same spot, for example cult activity and strange life form.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2016, 11:58:13 am
First of all sometimes, during cult base attack i got CTD during enemy movement. I noticed, that it was always caused by enemy unit walking on specific tile (for example in deasert base: just below the western stairs).

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of critical bug I need to know.
Would it be possible to have a save? Or failing that, at least a screenshot?

Some strings are missing (mostly related to EXALT, but also this frog(?) from Dagon church and second milestone).

Yeah, I'm slowly filling it in.

Blackops Smartgun is availible for purchase from the beginning (but without ammo) and does not have Ufopedia entry.

Thanks, that's a bad problem. But easy to fix. :)

Sometimes there are two spawned missions in the same spot, for example cult activity and strange life form.

That should be extremely rare, but yeah, it can happen. Not much I can do except making a lot more mission points, which is gradually happening.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on May 31, 2016, 03:43:28 pm
Maybe the cult is also looking for the life form? Maybe they had captured it and it ran away? It's all in the story you make up! ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2016, 04:07:19 pm
Maybe the cult is also looking for the life form? Maybe they had captured it and it ran away? It's all in the story you make up! ;)

Actually when the new nightly features are implemented, we can have a three-way between X-Com, cultists and monsters! :)

(Irrelevant, I know.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Mr. Quiet on June 01, 2016, 12:17:44 am
About 3-ways battles if armed civi's count: During non-terror sites, I'd like for the bottom right counter that appears when you spot an enemy to be a question mark instead of a "1", "2", etc when you spot a human or animal. Some can be more obvious enemies like MIB, but if cultists are wearing plain clothes like a civi, then you wanna wait until you're fired upon and then the "question mark" for that specific enemy becomes a "number". I'd love to see farmers roaming in the farm maps with a shotgun or a shovel and 50-50 chance they'll attack you too. If they attack you, you can defend yourself, but if you shoot first, well if they had a weapon, technically you're supposed to disarm all civis during quarantines. I mean it's standard for military in warzones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on June 01, 2016, 02:54:27 pm
I'm sorry, allready moved on and overwriten it. Next time i'll keep it.


I found another issue: To destroy EXALT you have to uncover their HQ like in case of other cults. But researching their special unit (EXALT Master) does nothing. I've checked in ruleset, that you need also PSICLONE (i presume it is an item) but it does not spawn on enemies even in EXALT bases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 01, 2016, 03:37:59 pm
I found another issue: To destroy EXALT you have to uncover their HQ like in case of other cults. But researching their special unit (EXALT Master) does nothing. I've checked in ruleset, that you need also PSICLONE (i presume it is an item) but it does not spawn on enemies even in EXALT bases.

Well... I'll check, but I certainly believe you. That's some serious blunder. The EXALT caused me so many problems. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on June 01, 2016, 11:04:05 pm
Didn't play this yet (waiting for the Android port) but I was wondering: How the transition from X-COM files to X-COM itself is handled?

I was thinking these days it would be cool if there's sorta of a X-COM "0.8" feeling to that period - I'm thinking cold war/post-cold war NATO/Warsaw Pact airplanes and air weapons, choppers for transport, NATO/Warsaw firearms (say, M16, AK74M, etc), prototype tanks, etc. The transition from post-cold war national equipment to X-COM weapons we see in vanilla and FMP.

BTW, am I the only who wants to intercept UFOs with one of these babies? The range would probably be crap, but it can probably outspeed most UFOs for a while. Like a missile that fires missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 01, 2016, 11:50:38 pm
I've checked in ruleset, that you need also PSICLONE (i presume it is an item) but it does not spawn on enemies even in EXALT bases.

Well, I verified this item should spawn on them. It's just not very common.

Didn't play this yet (waiting for the Android port) but I was wondering: How the transition from X-COM files to X-COM itself is handled?

I was thinking these days it would be cool if there's sorta of a X-COM "0.8" feeling to that period - I'm thinking cold war/post-cold war NATO/Warsaw Pact airplanes and air weapons, choppers for transport, NATO/Warsaw firearms (say, M16, AK74M, etc), prototype tanks, etc. The transition from post-cold war national equipment to X-COM weapons we see in vanilla and FMP.

BTW, am I the only who wants to intercept UFOs with one of these babies? The range would probably be crap, but it can probably outspeed most UFOs for a while. Like a missile that fires missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15

Actually a lot of this already is or soon will be implemented. Well, there's no X-15... But we have these:

(https://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/102604/90/1026049077.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on June 02, 2016, 06:36:16 pm
Hell yeah Mig-31! Now that is a fine bird!

What's the NATO equivalent - F15E? F22? I think there were a few F22 produced by 1999 or so.

Just struck by a thought - the early game missions may be a lot more, shall I say, "fair" in the sense that alien small UFOs are not outnumbered by the Skyranger's vast number of soldiers (I think the early ships carry somewhere in the neighboor of 6-8 aliens, right?) that allow you to deploy immense firepower by day 1, and they're fighting inferior MiGs and other planes with inferior weaponry, rather than X-COM swatting everything that's not a Large ship from out of the sky with dual avengers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Hobbes on June 02, 2016, 07:24:31 pm
Hell yeah Mig-31! Now that is a fine bird!

What's the NATO equivalent - F15E? F22? I think there were a few F22 produced by 1999 or so.

There's no US direct equivalent actually. The MiG-25 was designed as a high speed interceptor to launch long range missiles at US nuclear bombers attacking the URSS, and the MiG-31 is a upgrade to the original design. However both aircraft are not agile and will most likely lose in a dogfight.

The F-15 was designed as an air superiority fighter, designed to gain control of airspace by defeating other fighter planes and capable of carrying both long range missiles and engaging in dogfights. It can be used in an interceptor role (as well as the F-16) but it doesn't have the Mach 2.5+ speed ability of the MiG-25/31. The F-15E was designed to be a multirole aircraft, also capable of ground attack, and the F-22 was also designed for air superiority since it was supposed to be the replacement for the F-15. 

The closest to the MiG-25 would be the British Tornado ADV variant, which was designed as an interceptor. Or, in the case of the US, the F-14 Tomcat which was designed to shoot down Soviet bombers before they could attack US carriers with their missiles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 11, 2016, 12:51:21 pm
OMG what have I done?

(https://i.imgur.com/G7jQ2WF.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on June 11, 2016, 08:33:37 pm
I don't even know what I'm looking at - Underwater mission?

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Blank on June 11, 2016, 11:08:43 pm
This could get interesting
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 12, 2016, 11:28:20 am
Yes, it's one of the most advanced underwater missions. It's the first "arc" I want to complete.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: The Think Tank on June 13, 2016, 11:38:44 pm
So, I downloaded this and attempted to get it to work on my OXE Nightly game (Nightly is quite old, so that may be an issue) but from what I can see it is just Vanilla X-Com at the start with no changes, did I do something wrong here, or is there no new content in the beginning?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 14, 2016, 02:59:00 pm
So, I downloaded this and attempted to get it to work on my OXE Nightly game (Nightly is quite old, so that may be an issue) but from what I can see it is just Vanilla X-Com at the start with no changes, did I do something wrong here, or is there no new content in the beginning?

Eh? The mod contains the appropriate .exe and everything (well, except for the original UFO files).
Is there something missing?

EDIT:
Version 0.2 released!
Get it here: https://www.mediafire.com/download/cje82aboad1ldah/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.2.zip

I've upgraded the number from 0.1 to 0.2, because I managed to complete the T'leth arc. I'm not saying it won't be altered further, since I still have some esthetic issues with it, but you can play it and complete it. (Hopefully.) I still haven't decided how exactly go about sonic weapons, so they're not enabled for you yet - expect a patch.

Here's the complete list of changes:

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on June 14, 2016, 04:15:02 pm
I forgot to report : I started a new campaign, and after 3 game months of playing, I have one standing critic : there seems to very little incentive to actually capture live or dead aliens or cultists "as soon as possible". If you heroically recover a corpse or live specimen and abort out of a hopeless situation, it's actually not useful, because the captured stuff will stay in the research queue for months. It's especially disappointing that if you delay lifesaving items (van, bulletproof vest, magnum) for a month to research alien stuff, nothing gets unlocked. There may be bonus score (and thus more money for the next months), but then it would be better to show the score in the ufopedia screen itself - and for non-humans, it had better be a 3-digit number.
About practical gains, I don't know, but if XCOM manages to prove an alien threat by bringing back corpses/specimen, this could unlock random pieces of "military-grade" items (grenades, smoke), as they are bringing proof that they are facing something big.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 14, 2016, 04:19:26 pm
I forgot to report : I started a new campaign, and after 3 game months of playing, I have one standing critic : there seems to very little incentive to actually capture live or dead aliens or cultists "as soon as possible". If you heroically recover a corpse or live specimen and abort out of a hopeless situation, it's actually not useful, because the captured stuff will stay in the research queue for months. It's especially disappointing that if you delay lifesaving items (van, bulletproof vest, magnum) for a month to research alien stuff, nothing gets unlocked. There may be bonus score (and thus more money for the next months), but then it would be better to show the score in the ufopedia screen itself - and for non-humans, it had better be a 3-digit number.
About practical gains, I don't know, but if XCOM manages to prove an alien threat by bringing back corpses/specimen, this could unlock random pieces of "military-grade" items (grenades, smoke), as they are bringing proof that they are facing something big.

Thanks for the report. So, does it boil down to the fact that research times for creatures are too long? (Cultists should be fine, they're cheap.)

Unlocking items through researching enemies isn't a bad idea per se, but I have no idea how it would be balanced. I'd rather find another solution, as this would certainly get messy soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: The Think Tank on June 14, 2016, 06:58:16 pm
Okay, so I identified my issue, which was just a small error on my part, so nothing to worry about there. Now, I am faced with another issue (on v1.1, updating to v2 to see if that helps) where the entire game crashes after running the geoscape a few seconds after what I can only assume is a UFO detection (I cannot tell because nothing shows up before the game crashes).

Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated, because this looks like a very fun mod!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 14, 2016, 07:12:07 pm
Okay, so I identified my issue, which was just a small error on my part, so nothing to worry about there. Now, I am faced with another issue (on v1.1, updating to v2 to see if that helps) where the entire game crashes after running the geoscape a few seconds after what I can only assume is a UFO detection (I cannot tell because nothing shows up before the game crashes).

Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated, because this looks like a very fun mod!

Thank you!

Can you please send me a save game for that bug? (Assuming you have the time to save it.) If there's a bug, I'd like to fix it ASAP, since I plan to release a minor update soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: The Think Tank on June 14, 2016, 10:02:35 pm
Thank you!

Can you please send me a save game for that bug? (Assuming you have the time to save it.) If there's a bug, I'd like to fix it ASAP, since I plan to release a minor update soon.
Most unusual, it seems to work with v2 now, but that you anyway!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on June 14, 2016, 10:43:22 pm
So, does it boil down to the fact that research times for creatures are too long? (Cultists should be fine, they're cheap.)
I think so. After 3-4 months of playing, I had enough "backlog" projects to research for the rest of the year. Creatures that I captured on the first battle, I could only study 6 months later.
From looking at the 0.2 ruleset, a single scientist (20% of your brain power for the first three months) performing an autopsy takes from 0.3 months to 6 months; studying a live specimen takes 3 months. Actually, even studying a captured baseball bat takes 10 days to write a report "It's a stick. You hit people with it.".
Note, in Openxcom, the more scientists you put on a project, the more you waste when the total is reached and exceeded (ex: 10 scientists, a random 0-9 are wasted, average 4.5) This is the opposite of vanilla, where the entire team will work "a second time for free" when it's reassigned. If the research seems to be a bottleneck, it really entices to split the research, in order to spare a man-day here and there.
By the way, I found the magnum sprite jarring, compared to the other contemporary weapons, so I tried a different drawing, inspired by the snub-nose pistol.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 15, 2016, 03:12:52 pm
Wow, a very nice Magnum indeed.

As for the research times... yeah, I'll reconsider them. They are there for a reason, but ideas evolve and I guess I'll have to tone it down a little.
EDIT: I reduced all critters' research times across the board by 50-60% (it was usually 90, now it's usually 40). Hopefully it makes things better.

EDIT:
Version 1.2.1 has been released.
Get it here: https://www.mediafire.com/download/rxnvb77ctvju2by/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.2.1.zip

Mostly fixes and changes after feedback. Most notably, you also get access to sonic weapons.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on June 17, 2016, 03:52:32 pm
Sounds great! Getting right to it.


Soooo... Since we have smartguns, motion trackers, dropships and black chitin aliens using live humans as hosts... Will it be possible to get one of those:


(https://gunfire.pl/pol_pl_Replika-karabinu-M41A-Pulse-Rifle-1152197818_3.jpg)

I would completely pass on plasma and laser guns just to use M41a.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 19, 2016, 01:08:41 am
Maybe! If there's a logical place for it.
Obviously it's not a buyable weapon. It's not a BlackOps weapon either, since they make the Assault Rifle or heavier weapons. Besides, I wouldn't want BlackOps to make such "shout out" merchandise, it should be something unique.
I guess we'd need a special mission for these. I plan some rare encounters, we can add it there for research and production.

EDIT: 0.2.2 was uploaded.
- Undersea missions now require researching a submarine.
- New railgun hit animation (by pWWWa).
- Fixed a critical bug which prevented the player from accessing the final mission of the T'Leth arc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: begri on June 20, 2016, 10:06:07 am
Can you upload to mega?

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on June 20, 2016, 10:31:26 am
Hey Solarius, if you want some inspiration: Check out old plataformer Arkritz The Intruder. Cult classic, I think its mostly unknown outside of Brazil and Europe.

Its a game about a corrupt ex-cop washing his troubles down with alcohol... which causes him to end up hunted down by the authorities while trying to fight a invasion of aliens and mutants in a small town and solve its mysteries. With sarcastic commentary inside your head, hehehehehe.

Don't be offset by plataformer, a good part of the game is about running around a small city with beautiful graphics, fighting and fleeing from all the enemies and collecting gear in a realistic world.

Might give you ideas. Great game btw. Hard as FUCK tho.

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 20, 2016, 11:21:48 am
Can you upload to mega?

I can upload to all the servers in the world, but it wouldn't be very organized, right?
Is Mediafire problematic? Why are you asking?

Hey Solarius, if you want some inspiration: Check out old plataformer Arkritz The Intruder. Cult classic, I think its mostly unknown outside of Brazil and Europe.

(...)

Thanks, I'll check maybe, when I'm done with my current games. I don't have any problems with getting ideas though ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: begri on June 21, 2016, 12:05:56 pm
Wow it is impressive! I love it.
Tooo many weapons is it necessary?

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2016, 02:37:58 pm
Wow it is impressive! I love it.

Thank you! Just wait till it gets better! :)

Tooo many weapons is it necessary?

If it's necessary, then by definition it's not too many.
If it's too many, then by definition it's not necessary.
:P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on June 21, 2016, 09:56:24 pm


Man, I spent 3 hours last night trying to go through a Black Lotus Cultist base with a Dragonfly, 8 Men with Tactical Armour and LMGs...

...

Three Hours.

Damn Ninjas.  The first 2 hours were casualty free, then , despite being in a position which attempted to covered all directions of advance against me...  I lost 5 soldiers in 5 turns to a damn Ninja I couldn't see...

Then spent an hour hunting down 4 more of those Ninja that I couldn't see, but I knew were around as my soldiers stopped after every tile of movement.



....Made me wish I had a flamethrower I could just torch vast areas with to flush them out...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on June 25, 2016, 12:44:43 pm
5 dead? Not bad, I had 3, but most people ended up wounded and also I was super lucky for the mission to spawn within Mudranger's range. Reenacting 'japanese XCOM' paid off handsomely :) Managed to do this in circa 2 hrs due to offensive approach. This was one of the best missions I've ever played in XCOM... and also a mission I NEVER want to play again :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on June 25, 2016, 06:35:41 pm
It is absolutely crazy........

I think personally, I'm not a fan of the invisibility mechanic overall...  But I put up with it, because without it or a viable alternative, the missions would be too much easier....


It was just, losing 5 men in 5 turns to what I think was a Shruiken armed warrior, was just...    GAAAH!

:D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on June 29, 2016, 02:38:06 am
Hey Solarius, I remember you saying you had no plans to change certain vanilla aspects in original FMP, but what about here?

And by "certain vanilla aspects", I'm talking about Psi.

I'm not going to rant at length about how unbalanced it is at the hands of the player, because you of course know that.

But I do find it ludicrous that X-COM learns psi and is using it as well or better than the aliens, in like five minutes, when those aliens had that sort of power for millions of years.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 29, 2016, 12:13:53 pm
Hey Solarius, I remember you saying you had no plans to change certain vanilla aspects in original FMP, but what about here?

And by "certain vanilla aspects", I'm talking about Psi.

I'm not going to rant at length about how unbalanced it is at the hands of the player, because you of course know that.

But I do find it ludicrous that X-COM learns psi and is using it as well or better than the aliens, in like five minutes, when those aliens had that sort of power for millions of years.

No, I am not bound by vanilla compliance as with the FMP. This is exactly why I started this as a separate project: to have more freedom with this kind of stuff.
Nevertheless, I haven't come up with a better psi system yet. I'm open to reasonable suggestions (reasonable meaning, ones that are possible to implement).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: blackwolf on July 09, 2016, 06:29:28 am
hi compadre, i have to say im thrilled by the idea of the mod, and at first glance look pretty interesting so imma take a look and enjoy the ride :D.

btw i dont know if is a bug or is WAD but just starting the campaing and looking the ufopaedia you are able to see the underwater advanced operations(one talking about trident submarine)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 09, 2016, 12:14:30 pm
hi compadre, i have to say im thrilled by the idea of the mod, and at first glance look pretty interesting so imma take a look and enjoy the ride :D.

btw i dont know if is a bug or is WAD but just starting the campaing and looking the ufopaedia you are able to see the underwater advanced operations(one talking about trident submarine)

Thanks! And yeah, sorry, it's a bug. Please ignore it for now, it'll be fixed in the next release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: blackwolf on July 10, 2016, 10:26:15 am
glad to help. btw another silly bug , in the  purchase page, gass cannon bullets (ap and he iirc) are aviable from day 1, just below the small shotgun an small shotgun bullets
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 10, 2016, 11:04:48 am
glad to help. btw another silly bug , in the  purchase page, gass cannon bullets (ap and he iirc) are aviable from day 1, just below the small shotgun an small shotgun bullets

Yeah, it's silly... Especially since they aren't supposed to be buyable, ever. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 12, 2016, 06:37:22 am
Sol,

First post in a looooong time.

This mod..Wow. I've been thinking about a mod like this since like 1996. I loved the X-files and X-com and always thought how the two kind of played off of each other. I'm actually really excited about this. I've been playing this mod off and on the last few weeks and love the concept, but there are a few quirks that I know will be ironed out.

I've read the rest of the thread and there are a few things I've thought about while playing. I'll outline them here and reasoning behind them and how I believe they would fit into what you are doing. Now, I've not gotten super far, so if I am missing something because I haven't encountered it please forgive me, and correct me. I'm sure that some of this is old hat, but I'll hope you'll understand that I am very enthusiastic about this mod.... anyways.

1. A flashlight
Yeah, I want a maglite. Adding a touch to light radius would be great and would make me happy and I want to smash a cultist in the face too. I'd be willing to trade light radius for this...you know to increase the paranoia of a night mission :)

2. 1x1 Hanger.
Alright, I say 1x1 hanger but what I really mean is a 1x1 garage. I think of it as a staging area for a particular team so that a team could grab their gear and go using commercial or chartered aircraft etc. the car.... so tiny in this HUGE bay! However, how would this make sense large aircraft? I'm not sure...

3. Replacement of Mudranger with a MI-24 HIND.
just bugs me.... yeah, I know I'm a party pooper. Thoughts?

4. More critters.
Egads more critter types eating folks... soooo good. Creepy. Had a 4 man team drive out to the desert at night once and turned around and faced outward. Moved a few steps out to secure a perimeter and had dudes with Uzis with reaction fire TUs left.
Creepy crawlies
rushed in and ended all of them in a single turn... My guys all shot back with reaction fire, mostly missing and died. It was glorious. It felt like some true X-Files shit.

5. Scooby needs to be in the mystery machine :)
I have the gang bouncing out. Shaggy, Freddy, Velma, Daphne...but yeah. Scooby.

6. Slugs for the pump action shotgun.
It would be nice if I could sometime get range with a shotgun, so it would shoot a single projectile. The spread is awful BTW, but you could justify this in game by saying the shotgun has a rifled slug barrel; which in reality turns your pattern to crap when using shot.... but implementation... meh.

7. Subdue kit.
Another one of my wants forever has been a single use item that has a black jack, handcuffs, blindfold and ductape. You know for knocking out a cultist and making them your prisoner... for those smash and grab missions that end up resembling some kind of Waco style craziness like when my two guys roll up at night and then crazy gunfire. One agent was done immediately, and my other agent shot a dude point blank as he tried to bury an axe in her skull I grabbed him and shoved him in the backseat and drove like hell.

8. Gym at anytime
Attrition is high... higher than even the rookies of Xcom have faced. No Cover, No intial way for concealment.... bad news. So yeah, having to wait 29 days to tell a dude to get training because he came in early in the month.... URGH!!!

9. Firing range building.
I'd love something like the gym that focused on firing accuracy ONLY and was expensive to operate and could be enrolled in at anytime.

10. Rifles
seriously....Why can't my quartermaster get M16s and AK47s. Oversight my foot... my quartermaster would be fired for not being able buy something that at the time could be found in an open air market in Somalia for less than a days wages (USD).

11. Kevlar vests.
Same question... but I actually do understand. There is several different levels of body armor available and the amount of protection it provides in real life. Concealable armor makes perfect sense and should be a freebie. I could foresee an oversight in plate carriers yatta yatta but not a simple vest.

Thought?

How can I help you?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2016, 10:17:24 am
This mod..Wow. I've been thinking about a mod like this since like 1996. I loved the X-files and X-com and always thought how the two kind of played off of each other. I'm actually really excited about this. I've been playing this mod off and on the last few weeks and love the concept, but there are a few quirks that I know will be ironed out.

I'm happy to hear that, and sorry that this mod is in such an early state. ;)

1. A flashlight
Yeah, I want a maglite. Adding a touch to light radius would be great and would make me happy and I want to smash a cultist in the face too. I'd be willing to trade light radius for this...you know to increase the paranoia of a night mission :)

Yes, I would like this as well. :P Maybe someday it'll be possible. A more advanced lighting engine would be nice if it allowed the light to be directional (cone-like).

2. 1x1 Hanger.
Alright, I say 1x1 hanger but what I really mean is a 1x1 garage. I think of it as a staging area for a particular team so that a team could grab their gear and go using commercial or chartered aircraft etc. the car.... so tiny in this HUGE bay! However, how would this make sense large aircraft? I'm not sure...

Yeah, having small hangars for small vehicles has been on my mind since forever. I'd add them if the engine allowed. But I'm also getting feedback that the current system is way cooler, with huge garages and such.

3. Replacement of Mudranger with a MI-24 HIND.
just bugs me.... yeah, I know I'm a party pooper. Thoughts?

Make me a map and we'll see. :P
No, seriously, I want a helicopter. But making it is beyond my current abilities, epsecially time-wise.

4. More critters.
Egads more critter types eating folks... soooo good. Creepy. Had a 4 man team drive out to the desert at night once and turned around and faced outward. Moved a few steps out to secure a perimeter and had dudes with Uzis with reaction fire TUs left. (...) It felt like some true X-Files shit.

Nice! Just as planned. :q

5. Scooby needs to be in the mystery machine :)
I have the gang bouncing out. Shaggy, Freddy, Velma, Daphne...but yeah. Scooby.

Dogs are problematic, or actually tanks in general are problematic, since they shouldn't fit in a car and a dog is technically a HWP. What I could do is make dogs a soldier race, but it leads to all sorts of unintended fun, like all-dogs crew in a car or a dog becoming Commander.

6. Slugs for the pump action shotgun.
It would be nice if I could sometime get range with a shotgun, so it would shoot a single projectile. The spread is awful BTW, but you could justify this in game by saying the shotgun has a rifled slug barrel; which in reality turns your pattern to crap when using shot.... but implementation... meh.

I tihnk all other shotguns have solid projectiles.

7. Subdue kit.
Another one of my wants forever has been a single use item that has a black jack, handcuffs, blindfold and ductape. (...)

You and me, man. But that'd be new mechanics, someone would have to plan and code it, and do it well enough for Meridian to add it to the branch.
Cool story though.

8. Gym at anytime
Attrition is high... higher than even the rookies of Xcom have faced. No Cover, No intial way for concealment.... bad news. So yeah, having to wait 29 days to tell a dude to get training because he came in early in the month.... URGH!!!

Wait, doesn't the psi training at any time cover the gym too? I can't remember.

9. Firing range building.
I'd love something like the gym that focused on firing accuracy ONLY and was expensive to operate and could be enrolled in at anytime.

AFAIK it's planned. I need to wait for the code, but I want it the same way.

10. Rifles
seriously....Why can't my quartermaster get M16s and AK47s. Oversight my foot... my quartermaster would be fired for not being able buy something that at the time could be found in an open air market in Somalia for less than a days wages (USD).

It's not that he can't find it, it's that he has trouble getting the permission from the UN. That's why there's so much trouble with military weapons.
Researching cults (and their suppliers) is a good way to get more dakka.

11. Kevlar vests.
Same question... but I actually do understand. There is several different levels of body armor available and the amount of protection it provides in real life. Concealable armor makes perfect sense and should be a freebie. I could foresee an oversight in plate carriers yatta yatta but not a simple vest.

Oh, you'd be surprised... :P
Fixing it is relatively easy though.

Thought?

How can I help you?

Hmmm... Do you do sprites or maps? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on July 12, 2016, 10:39:07 am
"psi training anytime" does work for gym.
It's a "must have" for X-Com files, IMO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on July 12, 2016, 01:26:01 pm
That limit for gym is quite crazy since why does it need a month's 'warmup' if it upgrades stats daily, not monthly...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 12, 2016, 03:44:42 pm

It's not that he can't find it, it's that he has trouble getting the permission from the UN. That's why there's so much trouble with military weapons.
Researching cults (and their suppliers) is a good way to get more dakka.


That's a touch ridiculous... The UN couldn't keep a secret to save their life and is notoriously antigun, you ever seen the statue in New York? Permission is redundant in an international secret organization.

Also, guys like myself have been building guns in their garage since like forever using publicly available plans or reverse engineering. I mean  if a few dudes can literally build guns with hand tools squatting in a bicycle shop, cave, or jungle tunnel complex then building them onsite at modest expense in a modern shop is trivial. It also lets you control identifying marks.

Not to mention the fact that this is only 10 years or so after the closing of the U.S. machine-gun registry. Granted they would be expensive, but publicly available. I mean like pick up a newspaper and read the classifieds type of availability; and 100% above board.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2016, 06:32:30 pm
That's a touch ridiculous... The UN couldn't keep a secret to save their life and is notoriously antigun, you ever seen the statue in New York? Permission is redundant in an international secret organization.

Well, people who funded X-Com beg to differ.
Why? That will be explained more clearly with time. In short, X-Com has many enemies in the UN and the global powers in general; not just alien lackeys, there are many groups who find X-Com to be a thorn in their ass. Blame all inconveniences on them. That's partially why you need to produce solid proofs of alien activity, so that the UN has no choice but to give you more authority.

Also, guys like myself have been building guns in their garage since like forever using publicly available plans or reverse engineering. I mean  if a few dudes can literally build guns with hand tools squatting in a bicycle shop, cave, or jungle tunnel complex then building them onsite at modest expense in a modern shop is trivial. It also lets you control identifying marks.

Yes, I never said military weapons are physically hard to attain. (Cultists do it all the time.) X-Com just needs to tread very carefully, for political reasons.
Actually, to overcome it is one of the goals of the game.

Not to mention the fact that this is only 10 years or so after the closing of the U.S. machine-gun registry. Granted they would be expensive, but publicly available. I mean like pick up a newspaper and read the classifieds type of availability; and 100% above board.

I don't really understand how it's related... Why would US policy matter at all here?

EDIT: Regarding portable flashlights, there appears to be a light in the tunnel (pun not intended): https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg67092.html#msg67092
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Jblade35 on July 12, 2016, 11:54:06 pm
I've just started playing this today, I definitely agree it's something special - the very low agent amount at the start of the game has really changed things around a lot as well as all of the other tweaks and changes. I really love the idea of starting from just a car and working your way up from there whilst scrounging up tech and resources. Cultists being melee orientated means I'm more willing to task risks with stun guns and stuff. Those ninjas are a pain in the ass though, right now I have no way to really deal with their throwing knifes.

About the mudranger; I can see why it's so limited since the early game feels balanced towards lower levels of tech and stuff but I think it should at least be able to travel across America. I had it in the centre and couldn't reach the west coast IIRC. The other problem (which I'm sure is more geared towards OpenXcom devs than you) is that there's no simple way of telling if your craft has enough fuel to reach a place or not.

Other than that I'm really enjoying the mod, raiding cultists outposts with body-armour and black market guns feels really damn awesome :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 13, 2016, 01:33:48 am
Well, people who funded X-Com beg to differ.
Why? That will be explained more clearly with time. In short, X-Com has many enemies in the UN and the global powers in general; not just alien lackeys, there are many groups who find X-Com to be a thorn in their ass. Blame all inconveniences on them. That's partially why you need to produce solid proofs of alien activity, so that the UN has no choice but to give you more authority.

Yes, I never said military weapons are physically hard to attain. (Cultists do it all the time.) X-Com just needs to tread very carefully, for political reasons.
Actually, to overcome it is one of the goals of the game.

Are all of the enemies of Proto X-Com on the security council? Are any? Five major funders are also the five permanent members of the security council... This does not compute. You have an organization that is quite literally on political thin ice, theoretically ignoring the UDHR, but you can't get rifles because of political appeasement... You know I just really thought about how fucked the UN is and this actually made me laugh so hard I cried. Alright.... Ok, I'm onboard.

The sheer confusion of this is actually hilarious because I can see something like that happening. I can see now It's actually brilliant because I've professionally dealt with the half measure ideology that made my eye twitch and that frustration is so real I don't know what else to say. :)

U.S. policy history was for ease of access example for full auto weapons by me following a mental tangent on to a forum board.  :o

Now about that flashlight....

O M G.

What kind of sprites and such are you after.


-HH

Edited for clarity?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 13, 2016, 10:44:10 am
I've just started playing this today, I definitely agree it's something special - the very low agent amount at the start of the game has really changed things around a lot as well as all of the other tweaks and changes. I really love the idea of starting from just a car and working your way up from there whilst scrounging up tech and resources. Cultists being melee orientated means I'm more willing to task risks with stun guns and stuff. Those ninjas are a pain in the ass though, right now I have no way to really deal with their throwing knifes.

Thanks!
As for the ninja, yeah, there's no reliable way of dealing with them. You can spread your people to have as many viewing angles as possible, but 2 or 4 are definitely not enough. Spam explosives on suspected areas if you have them. Don't engage them in melee. :)

About the mudranger; I can see why it's so limited since the early game feels balanced towards lower levels of tech and stuff but I think it should at least be able to travel across America. I had it in the centre and couldn't reach the west coast IIRC. The other problem (which I'm sure is more geared towards OpenXcom devs than you) is that there's no simple way of telling if your craft has enough fuel to reach a place or not.

Yeah, the Mudranger is highly experimental. I want to give it a "second stage", where it can be dropped from a plane with better range and speed than the Mudranger itself. But it's not in the game yet.


Are all of the enemies of Proto X-Com on the security council? Are any?

Yes, all of them in fact. But remember that the council are just representatives, they can be influenced by such groups but few of them are actually prominent members of Majestic 12 or whoever is behind all this. So everyone involved has some presence in the Council.

Five major funders are also the five permanent members of the security council... This does not compute. You have an organization that is quite literally on political thin ice, theoretically ignoring the UDHR, but you can't get rifles because of political appeasement... You know I just really thought about how fucked the UN is and this actually made me laugh so hard I cried. Alright.... Ok, I'm onboard.

Well, the entire point of this mod, or at least one of its most important features, is world conspiracy. I'm not trying to recreate reality, but a specific genre: a planet of secrets (just like in The X-Files). And it's pretty standard for the genre that everything, ever is controlled from the shadows.
Of course, the actual possibility of things being like this is... very debatable (conspiracy theories are hilarious, I had no idea they would be). But I think we can go with what I did. Remember that X-Com in its earliest phase is just police. You can't give detectives assault rifles. (Well, maybe you can in some countries, but X-Com is global.) In order to do so, the organization first must gain some leverage to be treated seriously by the Council.

The sheer confusion of this is actually hilarious because I can see something like that happening. I can see now It's actually brilliant because I've professionally dealt with the half measure ideology that made my eye twitch and that frustration is so real I don't know what else to say. :)

I'm sure that would be a good story! :)

What kind of sprites and such are you after.

Mostly, maps. Oh man, making map blocks takes forever. It's fun though, so help appreciated.

EDIT: I guess more explanation on the political background is required in the Ufopaedia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on July 13, 2016, 06:05:45 pm
I really like the idea that X(com)files agents are originally sent to debunk hoaxes and appease hysteric towns, and the chief is stunned when every team comes back with their car trunks full of werewolves, chimeras, and magic gnomes.  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 13, 2016, 06:51:32 pm
I really like the idea that X(com)files agents are originally sent to debunk hoaxes and appease hysteric towns, and the chief is stunned when every team comes back with their car trunks full of werewolves, chimeras, and magic gnomes.  :o

Right?

"Yeah, Yeah go out to Kansas and find out about these reports of strange lights from stoned teenagers and hikers". **rolls eyes**


4 days layer via phone

"Heya chief we bagged like 4 of these human wolf things... No, they aren't werewolves because we dumped a few mags of FMJs and they died. No magic against a two dozen gut wounds I suppose. So, we skinned one, and Agent Cruz decided to make a coat out of it. Yes Sir, a coat.  It's quite striking.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 13, 2016, 06:57:46 pm
Sol,

I started a new game to fart around and after a few missions I've encountered a fatal error.

Basically I have a mission pop up and if I send a van out to it and try to start the mission I experience a crash.

You want the save state to examine it?


Also,

Have you considered only giving like 750K to start with for money? I mean I had so much money it was outrageous really, basically 2 months worth of income to start and it was a cake walk in terms of cash. I didn't feel any pressure from it at all. With an organization that is supported by surly, unreliable,  finicky, chicken-headed mooks. I figured they would basically only drop a dew dollars with a sigh and groan and the selection pressure could be a little steeper IMO.

Thoughts?

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on July 13, 2016, 07:37:00 pm
Laboratories (xcom hq) cost 3 million each, and they seem to be the long-term "money sink" and way for your growth/progress. Wasting 100k here and there seems to have no immediate ill effects, but if an avoidable expense makes you go just under 3 million, it means can't build a new lab until you have new income, and thus your growth is typically delayed by one month.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 13, 2016, 07:56:40 pm
Yes please Helmet, I'd like to see this save. Thanks in advance.
As for the money... I don't know yet. It's complicated. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on July 14, 2016, 09:55:27 am
No, I am not bound by vanilla compliance as with the FMP. This is exactly why I started this as a separate project: to have more freedom with this kind of stuff.
Nevertheless, I haven't come up with a better psi system yet. I'm open to reasonable suggestions (reasonable meaning, ones that are possible to implement).
I don't think I'm the right guy, but some suggestions to limit psi:

- Tech-advancement dependant. Early human Psi should be lame compared to the alien psi.

- Resource-based limitations: Psi-Amps require more resources - say, maybe it uses dead psionic bodies to build. Or even living psionic aliens. Maybe its the "ammo" too.

- Human psi is line of sight, alien psi is everywhere. Maybe humans take a while to learn how to open the third eye or something.

- Psi-energy like in X-COM Apoc?

- Aliens have extra psi-powers humans can't use? Telekinesis would be neat.

- Risk-based factor? Think perils of the warp. Or at least a form of hurt or damage to users.

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on July 14, 2016, 09:59:40 am
By the way: Any plans for enviro for missions done by soldiers parachuting into place? Could make it something different.

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 14, 2016, 11:44:44 am
I don't think I'm the right guy, but some suggestions to limit psi:

- Tech-advancement dependant. Early human Psi should be lame compared to the alien psi.

Yes, planned to be so, more or less. I'm restricted by the engine, but I'll do my best.

- Resource-based limitations: Psi-Amps require more resources - say, maybe it uses dead psionic bodies to build. Or even living psionic aliens. Maybe its the "ammo" too.

Maybe. I've entertained such idea, but have no clear design yet.

- Human psi is line of sight, alien psi is everywhere. Maybe humans take a while to learn how to open the third eye or something.

Could work, but will be tricky.

- Psi-energy like in X-COM Apoc?

I plan to just use Stamina, since its available.

- Aliens have extra psi-powers humans can't use? Telekinesis would be neat.

Maybe. But seeing how psi works in X-Com, I think making a psi device to produce a particular effect should always be possible.
Doing it without any devices is a different story. :)

- Risk-based factor? Think perils of the warp. Or at least a form of hurt or damage to users.

That would be cool. Not exactly PoTW, more like "the more you influence them, the more they influence you". With actual scientific explanation and such.

Overall, good ideas!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Jblade35 on July 14, 2016, 12:25:24 pm
Just a quick question about taking out a Cult:
I took out the Black Lotus HQ in a bloody suicide assault; I killed everything there without destroying the statue (what can destroy it? a dynamite bundle at its feet didn't scratch it) and won the mission, but after researching the psi device and then the 'destroy black lotus' topic I didn't get anything else afterwards. Do I need to assault the HQ one final time or is it not possible to destroy Black Lotus yet?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 14, 2016, 12:46:05 pm
Just a quick question about taking out a Cult:

No, this should do the trick. No need to destroy the statue, you need to research the special item, which I think you did - otherwise you wouldn't be able to research "destroy the XXX". The cult should stop all activities within a month due to a sudden lack of spiritual guidance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Jblade35 on July 14, 2016, 12:52:14 pm
No, this should do the trick. No need to destroy the statue, you need to research the special item, which I think you did - otherwise you wouldn't be able to research "destroy the XXX". The cult should stop all activities within a month due to a sudden lack of spiritual guidance.
Ah, so it's within a month then - yeah I don't think it's been that long since I finished the topic, thanks for letting me know. I didn't get any UFOPedia topics or anything like that when I finished the topic though, I'll double check to see if I didn't click past it by accident or something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 14, 2016, 01:08:24 pm
Ah, so it's within a month then - yeah I don't think it's been that long since I finished the topic, thanks for letting me know. I didn't get any UFOPedia topics or anything like that when I finished the topic though, I'll double check to see if I didn't click past it by accident or something.

Yeah, please do. It's not exactly super-tested, so help is appreciated.
Oh, and congrats on finishing probably the hardest mission ever. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Jblade35 on July 14, 2016, 01:47:41 pm
Yeah, please do. It's not exactly super-tested, so help is appreciated.
Oh, and congrats on finishing probably the hardest mission ever. :)
I'm playing it on easy since I don't get that much time to play so it's not really an earned victory (That and out of the 10 who went in, 2 came out alive) but it was still a lot of fun. Even on this level it really needs thinking on your feet to succeed (I built a temporary base next to it so I could send in the mudranger)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 14, 2016, 08:04:58 pm
Sol,

Well, I goofed and saved over my crash save..... ugh...Sorry.

I'll pay more attention in the future.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on July 14, 2016, 08:23:35 pm
Regarding the availability of guns, here's maybe an educative scenario that'd be more understandable to the inhabitants of planet USA... :)

So 2 Russians, a Chinese and a French appear near New Reno, California to conduct some bizzare investigation on behalf of some obscure UN agency, brandishing assault rifles and bazookas. Do you really think the US govt and local law enforcement would approve of it unless said obscure agency had a great deal of influence? Most countries are quite allergic to foreigners crossing their borders, brandishing guns, especially the members of the Security Council. Even if they fully approve their citizens packing comparable heat.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on July 14, 2016, 09:48:40 pm
Because we're talking guns:

No plans for a autofire shotgun? The starting Shotgun in FMP is ok but it is useless due to its bad accuracy and lack of power when the meaner enemies start to appear. Also no autofire capacity.

(https://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/jackhammer_diagram.jpg)

(https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwiK96TUzvPNAhVM4SYKHYLYBSsQjBwIBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.militaryfactory.com%2Fsmallarms%2Fimgs%2Fmps-aa12.jpg&psig=AFQjCNG0PmIbAY__PPGFXKvsN-ExyR-YyA&ust=1468608296964244)

Imagine a Pancor Jackhammer given a Alien Alloy frame, hmmmm...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 15, 2016, 12:09:57 am
Regarding the availability of guns, here's maybe an educative scenario that'd be more understandable to the inhabitants of planet USA... :)

So 2 Russians, a Chinese and a French appear near New Reno, California to conduct some bizzare investigation on behalf of some obscure UN agency, brandishing assault rifles and bazookas. Do you really think the US govt and local law enforcement would approve of it unless said obscure agency had a great deal of influence?

Eduluacative to the knuckle-dragging Burgergarians of 'murrica land. :)

I understand more and better than you could believe, D.

You have to consider that most of this is happening out in the boonies so any police response is delayed long enough for the police to be irrellevant. You know when second count the police are minutes away...  ;D Besides, it isn't a true investigation we experience as players, that happens "off screen" the tactical combat happens "on screen", otherwise how would our agents know where to locate the critters/bad guys exactly? Because, the investigation is already done. I would hope that the agents would be couth enough to keep the visible killing hardware out of sight when talking to a yak farmer in outer Mongolia, but who knows. Not to mention when police hear large amounts of gunfire the first thing the do is wait for it to stop before investigating.  ;D

You would never get prior authorization to openly perform any operation like this with ANY guns from, or in ANY sovereignty.... With exception if that agent was authorized to do so by his home country previously... So like if Xcom recruited a former FBI agent that was authorized to carry anywhere, then that would not be invalidated and thus could carry in the U.S. with no issues. Also maybe if Xcom was also registered as a private "security" contractors... but that is a whole nother deal that is relevant, but I don't want to post about it now.

However, extreme exceptions aside... No , and mean I mean like no country would allow foreign nationals in with firearms of ANY sort in a police capacity without a resolution and express invitation, and what developed country would do that? uhhhh NONE! There is NO such thing as a secret UN resolution.

There would never be such authorization which is literally why I was like "lol wut"? The agents are already crossing into a foreign country that may or may not be a member of the UN and kill the absolute dogshit out of citizens of some country or another (cultists). Can you say multiple human rights violations? I can list at least 10 without even sweating. I mean seriously, the half measure ideology is actually so backwards it makes sense...If you have ever worked in any screwed up bureaucracy as I have.  :(

.... I digress, moving on!

Xcom could not have enemies on the council for this to really work because this would be such a political hot potato that it wouldn't fly otherwise. Xcom would have to have the support of the council for the overall mission of the project because wrench, revolver, or rifle, you have personnel executing, kidnapping, interrogating, depriving of property, and denying religion of these poor cultists....to say the least.  :P

The UN / Council's mental dichotomy is insane, "Yes, violate the shit out of international law and the sovereignty of member nations wholesale. No, you can't have tools to help be sure you don't get caught and by extension prevent me/us from being caught". WTF?!!? Did they have a brain aneurysm before or after their crack binge?

The whole paranoia of "looking for any excuse shut X-Com down" is laughable, because the shooting  of a religious extremist coming to public attention is the kiss of death for anyone's diplomatic career (sometimes)....Unless you are uhh Russian, Chinese, or in parts of South America or Africa or 'Murrica :o ...but yeah! I bet they don't talk about Waco or Ruby Ridge in Poland  :-\ The tldr is that the Feds came in and killed the shit out basically everyone without talking to local law enforcement. These examples are applicable in that an armed group can and will do what it feels that it should and worry about the consequences later....which there were none really for the officers involved. So in Xcom's case the UN or council could not admit prior knowledge of Xcom's "illegal" activity without exposing themselves, and admitting that there was a secret UN taskforce that violated the law equally endangers the council for the same reason. Catch-22.

Because It would be that way, I hope that those council / UN members involved recognize the damage of public scrutiny. I would hope they realized that they need to take every step to be sure that there are no surviving enemy combatants, which minimizes witnesses; which means having the tools to get the job done and leaving behind the strangest cases of mass suicide.  8)

Also, so what if they are exposed? Big. fucking. deal. The scandal would blow over rather quickly and be credited to rouge elements within the organization and not the totality of the organization itself whereupon the organization would be renamed and continue operations more carefully. Have you ever watched CNN?  :-X

Anyways, my point is this. If they have already made the decision to risk it all, why would they bother with arbitrary limitations that increases the chances of them being caught in a scandal? We can think this out a few ways. 

1. There is no risk of exposure, then authorization is meaningless. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
2. There is some risk of exposure; It is necessary to maximize success and thus control the number of witnesses. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
3. The organization is publicly exposed; There is no need to be politically sensitive now; rename the organization and see 2. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
4. The organization is operating secretly with complete UN / Council authorization; call Izmash; AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
5. The organization is secret with backers being scared of exposure and won't stop you, but won't help you either. Call Izmash. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
6. The organization is fucking around trying to appease idiotic jackasses who don't realize their idiocy. Ignore them and call Izmash. AKs and RPGs for everyone!

Now, that being said known violations from one country to another that could be potentially embarrassing are often glossed over... I'll give you a few examples Like the form 60, Aralsk-7 incident... The U.S. ignored it; knowing it was a massive bio-weapons treaty violation. Also, The UN didn't talk too much about the fact that literal tons of weaponized anthrax that sat literally without so much as a fence for almost 20 years before they did something about it. It wasn't a secret, but no one really talked about it in public.

Or the fact that Russia could read EVERY U.S. confidential cable transmission and electronic diplomatic transmission and knew about the drug smuggling operations for funding  South American friends of the CIA, where known CIA handlers where present and involved and where drugs were sold on America's streets. This could of easily embarrassed the U.S., but Russia remained quiet about it.

In short. It's silly to not have access to common weapons and equipment from the beginning stemming from arguments about authorization or availability.

Do you understand? Do I make my arguments clear? You can wholeheartedly disagree and have ultimate power, but it is important that I be clear.

btw Poland is gorgeous.

-HH

edited because I am a knuckle-dragging burgergarian.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on July 15, 2016, 06:30:15 am
Many countries might be worried that all these foreign dudes with guns are not JUST X-COM agents...

These AKs and RPGs can murder other people as well as aliens and cultists, after all.

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 15, 2016, 07:35:31 am
Many countries might be worried that all these foreign dudes with guns are not JUST X-COM agents...

These AKs and RPGs can murder other people as well as aliens and cultists, after all.

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk


Many (all) countries worry about bad actors, do you try to disarm the bad actors? YES! OF COURSE! However, those bad actors already have the hardware in this instancd.
COULD the tools be used inncorrectly? Yup, Just as a hammer can be used to murder someone, so can a gun can be used to commit the same crime, the two are absolutely parallel and death cults have no oversight as X-com does, the monsters eat people because I guess people are like monster crack or something and are not a political entity...And aliens, their motivations are well... alien.

A police officer in most countries carries a firearm to enforce the law, but is there a push to disarm the police because they could have that weapon robbed from them? Nope, instead there are policies, procedures, and oversight to minimize this  while not restricting the availability of the tool used to enforce law. Body chains, adequate numbers of officers in response etc. as examples....

In the same tact, if government is worried about an internationally funded agency whose scope and mandate covers ferreting out death cults, monsters, and aliens, why don't they deal with it themselves? Why would they fund such a group like X-com? Maybe they cannot deal with the threat themselves alone, because if they could then they wouldn't fund X-Com, would they? Thus, if they want the ends they must accept the means.

Now, do you worry about the size of the fire hose when the house is on fire? or let them put it out? or would you care to tell them they can't use the hydrant while the house burns? :)

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on July 19, 2016, 02:50:44 am
Nice i see your work a excelent mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 19, 2016, 10:21:13 am
Regarding govt policies concerning X-Com, I will explain again that the mod - or at least a part of it - is based on the conspiracy theories, Illuminati, Majestic 12 and such. Therefore, the world presented in it looks like a typical conspiracy theory reality, using some popular tropes and assumptions.
Would it be different in real life? Yeah, maybe, maybe not. Now, in 2016, things would probably be different. In the 90's, I think it'd be fine. But it's really irrelevant.

Now, regarding development: I started working on another faction, the Cyberweb. It'll be a lot of work, probably more than the entire T'leth arc, so bear with me!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on July 19, 2016, 11:49:18 pm
Some stuff that came into my mind:

- "Paradrop" Conditions - missions with restricted equipment and no craft in-map? I think paratroops can't carry the same equip normal soldiers do for weight-space reasons, am I right? I know rifles have para versions. Can you even carry a rocket launcher or LMG on such missions?

I can see those missions happening, pre-Skyranger.

- "Cult Infiltration" mission - get in as cult member, use their weapons and uniform. Then shoot them up, or take prisioners/valuable objects.

- Weapon upgrades-auguments? Say, rifle with bayonet. Or underslug grenade launcher.  Extended mags, drums, flashlight, etc. Would probably have a price - more weight, affecting negatively other qualities, etc. Might be too rpg-ish.

- Its a pity its 1999 - "Evil islamic fundie terrorists that actually work for aliens/evil conspiracy" is too modern-day. Hashashin Cult?

- Reptoids in civvie human skin suits in Terror Missions? Not sure how it would be made to work. NuXcom2 did with the Faceless, but that's not as cool as Reptoids.

Wish I could play this. Soon I will have a computer again...

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on July 20, 2016, 12:47:48 am
The animation routine for the Parrot, should work for the shadowbat too, if you are interested.  I through together a quick ruleset for you to test to see if you like it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 20, 2016, 08:09:35 am
Regarding govt policies concerning X-Com, I will explain again that the mod - or at least a part of it - is based on the conspiracy theories, Illuminati, Majestic 12 and such. Therefore, the world presented in it looks like a typical conspiracy theory reality, using some popular tropes and assumptions.
Would it be different in real life? Yeah, maybe, maybe not. Now, in 2016, things would probably be different. In the 90's, I think it'd be fine. But it's really irrelevant.

Sol,

Of course it will be fine!! More than dandy, actually :)

I can't help it if I'm a tinfoil hat wearing burgergarian who has issues with suspension of disbelief in certain geopolitical and ideological storylines, but that's my problem and NOT yours. 

As far as conspiracies...Don't forget Bilderberg, the Phoebus cartel, Bohemian Grove, The trilateral commission, NRO astronaut program (fascinating and true BTW declassified last year), The men who stare at goats (I'm using that as a catch all for all the weird psychic research). There is potential for a ton of fun.

Please keep on keeping on. Seriously, you do great work and have brought MANY enjoyable hours to me.

Some stuff that came into my mind:

- "Paradrop" Conditions - missions with restricted equipment and no craft in-map? I think paratroops can't carry the same equip normal soldiers do for weight-space reasons, am I right? I know rifles have para versions. Can you even carry a rocket launcher or LMG on such missions?



I like this idea, but how do you balance it? Through no extraction? so that it means that a unit must do or die a mission?  or only a few that is WAY less than the total can extract via skyhook or something. I don't know, but feel that it should be a tool that has a trade off so that it does not replace the other forms of transportation.

As far a jumping with an LMG or heavy weapons of various flavors, it was done since WWII when it was all steel and wood. Paratroopers jumped with and used mortars, recoilless rifles , rocket launchers and machine guns;both Axis and the Allies. The technology has only got better as time went on, but weight is a big deal... so maybe enforce the 80 item limit :)

You also had idiocy like "leg bags" which tried to overcome this... Holy shitthat was a total failure.




- Reptoids in civvie human skin suits in Terror Missions? Not sure how it would be made to work. NuXcom2 did with the Faceless, but that's not as cool as Reptoids.

;

Yeah buddy... reptillians. What do the UFO folks call them... I forgot. Isn't there several different types?

I also think a prototype chrysalid entity would be a nightmare also.

I have this recurring hell mission going through my head of two agents wandering around ruins and a big nasty eating them Flukeman style. If you haven't seen that particular episode of the X-files... you should watch it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 20, 2016, 09:10:08 am
- "Paradrop" Conditions - missions with restricted equipment and no craft in-map? I think paratroops can't carry the same equip normal soldiers do for weight-space reasons, am I right? I know rifles have para versions. Can you even carry a rocket launcher or LMG on such missions?

I can see those missions happening, pre-Skyranger.

It's technically doable. But there would have to be a special mission for this and I can't see it happening.

- "Cult Infiltration" mission - get in as cult member, use their weapons and uniform. Then shoot them up, or take prisioners/valuable objects.

Doable and could be fun. :)

- Weapon upgrades-auguments? Say, rifle with bayonet. Or underslug grenade launcher.  Extended mags, drums, flashlight, etc. Would probably have a price - more weight, affecting negatively other qualities, etc. Might be too rpg-ish.

Maybe, but it doesn't really fit the mod. It's no X-Piratez. :) You want a different gun, you get a different gun.

- Its a pity its 1999 - "Evil islamic fundie terrorists that actually work for aliens/evil conspiracy" is too modern-day. Hashashin Cult?

I've been thinking about something like this, but a fifth cult would take too much time.

- Reptoids in civvie human skin suits in Terror Missions? Not sure how it would be made to work. NuXcom2 did with the Faceless, but that's not as cool as Reptoids.

Hey, I've been thinking about this. :) Still unsure how it'd work, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 26, 2016, 06:43:24 am
Tommy gun has no listed damage, ammo, etc.

see attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2016, 10:13:53 am
Tommy gun has no listed damage, ammo, etc.

see attached.

Yes, it's a bug. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 28, 2016, 12:16:13 am
Encountered some weirdness... don't know.

Mission was ending and prompted me that 3 of my agents had fatal wounds. None of the horrible effects of having agents die enroute happened. Haven't seen it in xcom files before or since.

Also, the functional differences between the hunting rifle, nitro rifle, and WA2000 clone need to be tweaked a touch and here is why.

The difference in damage, magazine capacity, accuracy makes the hunting rifle way more dangerous than the nitro rifle, even with the .4 multiplier... which I'm pretty certain is bugged  because a dude with 100+ accuracy should be hitting for 70+ damage, but sometimes a ganger will take 4 (!) Nitro rounds like he was getting slapped with a pillow before taking 1-2 more shots to finally die. I've seen this multiple times... it's annoying, and it does not add to the experience. On top of that the severe low capacity of the nitro rifle means more reloading and less shots, less chances to hit. Please, either up the damage, accuracy, or magazine capacity to make it an actual elephant gun... I'd actually settle for 2 shots like it was an H&H .600 double rifle.
Give the hunting rifle a .1 or .2 multiplier as it is probably 7.62x51.

The armadillo 3000 (WA 2000 clone) is supposed to be a genuine upgrade right? Because it splits the difference and isn't really any better... it's supposedly a semi auto, but is only capable of 2 shots a turn because of 35% TUs to snap. Reduction of snap to 33-30% makes it a touch more formidable, also increase magazine capacity.  Reduce aimed shot time to 45-55%.Leave it's multiplier alone.

Just my two cents.

Also, I finally decided to play with in game music on. So... music from THE THING.... dig it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2016, 12:40:46 am
Encountered some weirdness... don't know.

Mission was ending and prompted me that 3 of my agents had fatal wounds. None of the horrible effects of having agents die enroute happened. Haven't seen it in xcom files before or since.

It is a feature added by Meridian. It warns you if your people are bleeding before the mission ends, so you could heal them if possible.

Also, the functional differences between the hunting rifle, nitro rifle, and WA2000 clone need to be tweaked a touch and here is why.

The difference in damage, magazine capacity, accuracy makes the hunting rifle way more dangerous than the nitro rifle, even with the .4 multiplier... which I'm pretty certain is bugged  because a dude with 100+ accuracy should be hitting for 70+ damage, but sometimes a ganger will take 4 (!) Nitro rounds like he was getting slapped with a pillow before taking 1-2 more shots to finally die. I've seen this multiple times... it's annoying, and it does not add to the experience. On top of that the severe low capacity of the nitro rifle means more reloading and less shots, less chances to hit. Please, either up the damage, accuracy, or magazine capacity to make it an actual elephant gun... I'd actually settle for 2 shots like it was an H&H .600 double rifle.

The armadillo 3000 (WA 2000 clone) is supposed to be a genuine upgrade right? Because it splits the difference and isn't really any better... it's supposedly a semi auto, but is only capable of 2 shots a turn because of 35% TUs to snap. Reduction of snap to 33-30% makes it a touch more formidable, also increase magazine capacity.  Reduce aimed shot time to 45-55%.Leave it's multiplier alone.

I can't really up Nitro's damage, because the numbers would be going beyond what a man-sized gunpowder weapon could do. You said yourself that in the right hands it is stronger than the Heavy Cannon, without any of the hassle with researching stuff. Something that powerful (potentially) has to have some drawbacks.
About gangers not dropping from Nitro: well, every weapon in the game (apart from explosives) does 0 - 200% its nominal damage. So if you roll really low a few times in a row, you'll get a mildly shaken ganger who only received some glancing hits. From an elephant rifle. It just happens. I have no reason to suspect it is bugged.
I don't really understand why you're saying the Hunting Rifle is so much better. These weapons have different functions and are hard to compare; the Nitro has very good firepower while the Hunting Rifle has range, accuracy, clip size... Virtually everything else. I think they're both useful, but will listen to arguments.
And by Armadillo 3000, do you mean Arasaka 3000? If yes, then no, it's not an upgrade, just another gun. But Dioxine, who beta-tested it for me, liked it a lot for its damage bonus, so it's probably a solid one.

Also, I finally decided to play with in game music on. So... music from THE THING.... dig it.

It was Civilian's idea. :) He requested a The Thing-like mission in the Antarctica... It hasn't been made yet, but I plan to, at some point.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 29, 2016, 05:33:54 am
I don't really understand why you're saying the Hunting Rifle is so much better. These weapons have different functions and are hard to compare; the Nitro has very good firepower while the Hunting Rifle has range, accuracy, clip size... Virtually everything else. I think they're both useful, but will listen to arguments.


I'll explain this without using statistics; then if you want me to use statistical analysis to prove my point I can and will.

They are not that hard to compare.... they are both used to try to put big damage on critters and dudes from long distances.

The hunting rifle is a superior weapon because the volume of fire that it is capable of. In 6 turn average the hunting rifle allows a maximum of 15 shots while the Nitro rifle only allows nine. This is because of the 33% TUs to fire. Meaning that an agent in a good position may fire three times to hit a target, and since most of the time bullets are pillows you need additional chances to do damage. Second, having a guy with 80% FA; which is the median average of my 39 active agents, gives an overlap where the high end of the damage of the hunting rifle (66) overlaps 50% with the low to median range of the nitro rifle (66); but having a tighter overall deviation; thus more consistent performance. It takes hits to do damage, and to get hits you need shots, so volume of accurate shots is the important factor in two weapons with the same accuracy in the same fire mode.


When we can compare the accuracy of the Hunting Rifle to the Nitro Rifle in aimed fire.

Okay, so  aimed accuracy aimed is favors the hunting rifle because 125% accuracy vs 105%. In our average of 80 FA this nets 100 total accuracy and if you add in kneeling and you have an average where a guy can drill just about anything on the map, and if in a pinch can rapid fire off up to three shots. Where the Nitro rifle CAN ONLY EVER DO A MAXIMUM OF 2 SHOTS PER TURN and has an arbitrarily low accuracy when used in aimed shot... despite the fact that in reality Nitro Express Rifles are just as accurate and often more so as any production rifle because they usually machined lovingly by their manufacturers who only survive by reputation of quality alone.

And what it boils down to is if you can't hit, then you can't do damage and most guys don't have the firing accuracy in aimed to make it effective as with the Nitro Rifle because it doesn't provide the support it intends, and actually acts more like how a shotgun with slugs should rather than a high end smoke pole....It's a club pretending to be a scalpel. If it basically requires 25% more Firing accuracy on the part of the Agent to see the benefit of over the hunting rifle because of RNG, while outright sacrificing volume of fire means it's not as good. 

Put dirt simple... Half the time the Hunting rifle does as much damage as the Nitro Express Rifle but you can shoot it 3 times a turn and it has a higher capacity and is more accurate when necessary.

I can't really up Nitro's damage, because the numbers would be going beyond what a man-sized gunpowder weapon could do. You said yourself that in the right hands it is stronger than the Heavy Cannon, without any of the hassle with researching stuff. Something that powerful (potentially) has to have some drawbacks.

No, I didn't. There a heavy cannon I can pick up? nope. Also, THE NITRO RIFLE DOES REQUIRE RESEARCH TO OBTAIN!!! Also, did I say that it should have no drawbacks? Nope, in fact I mentioned including one. The art and behavior and Pedia entries point towards something like a Rigby in .416 or .458. There are larger....considering that .50BMG is less than half of the power :) But seriously .600 or .700 NE exist and blow huge holes in huge animals. Upping the damage and reduce the magazine capacity by one isn't clear. Here is what I meant to write  :P

Change the multiplier and damage to consistently give higher damage than the hunting rifle while still making accuracy of the agent using it matter.

About gangers not dropping from Nitro: well, every weapon in the game (apart from explosives) does 0 - 200% its nominal damage. So if you roll really low a few times in a row, you'll get a mildly shaken ganger who only received some glancing hits. From an elephant rifle. It just happens. I have no reason to suspect it is bugged.

If you have 4 agents shoot a guy 8 FUCKING times with a Nitro Rifle and he says "HEHEHE, PILLOW FIGHT!!!" and then smokes 2 agents despite the fact he added 180+ grams of steel to his diet... You are right, it isn't bugged.... it is FUCKING BROKEN

And by Armadillo 3000, do you mean Arasaka 3000? If yes, then no, it's not an upgrade, just another gun. But Dioxine, who beta-tested it for me, liked it a lot for its damage bonus, so it's probably a solid one.

Okay... It's a second hand adaptation of a rifle that was designed and built to be a semi-automatic 'sniper' rifle taking advantage of a few "new" concepts.  First, being a bullpup so that a longer barrel could be incorporated without adding overall length thus more velocity because of a more completely contained combustion, which nets more velocity, and thus "greater" accuracy at range by flater trajectory. The center of mass of the rifle is closer to the body for more control and has a decent magazine size to allow 1 man to be a serious force multiplier through volume of accurate fire.

I called it the armadillo because like an armadillo it has leprosy. IT'S ARISAKA and NOT ARASAKA... but fuck it... Whatever you call it, it is accurate, it has decent damage, but it's TU costs reflect a bolt action rifle rather than a semi auto and there were no 15 round magazines for the real series of Walther rifles... only 5, and unused 10... but this is not a hard thing to do in practicality so meh.... but YET AGAIN the hunting rifle beats it because of the fact it can perform 3 shots a turn and it does not do as much damage as the Nitro rifle and has a smaller multiplier and cannot keep up with the volume of fire. It doesn't suffer the issue that the hunting rifle does of "slow" reload, but still yet it cannot keep up with the rate of fire of the hunting rifile, although it is more accurate.

So, it might hit more often, the fact that it requires .35% TUs means less shots, less hits, and averaged out the hunting rifle will do more damage.... in snap. Aimed clearly falls to the Armadillo for accuracy but not in utility.

Was I clear?

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 29, 2016, 09:42:32 am

They are not that hard to compare.... they are both used to try to put big damage on critters and dudes from long distances.

The hunting rifle is a superior weapon because the volume of fire that it is capable of. In 6 turn average the hunting rifle allows a maximum of 15 shots while the Nitro rifle only allows nine. This is because of the 33% TUs to fire. Meaning that an agent in a good position may fire three times to hit a target, and since most of the time bullets are pillows you need additional chances to do damage. Second, having a guy with 80% FA; which is the median average of my 39 active agents, gives an overlap where the high end of the damage of the hunting rifle (66) overlaps 50% with the low to median range of the nitro rifle (66); but having a tighter overall deviation; thus more consistent performance. It takes hits to do damage, and to get hits you need shots, so volume of accurate shots is the important factor in two weapons with the same accuracy in the same fire mode.


When we can compare the accuracy of the Hunting Rifle to the Nitro Rifle in aimed fire.

Okay, so  aimed accuracy aimed is favors the hunting rifle because 125% accuracy vs 105%. In our average of 80 FA this nets 100 total accuracy and if you add in kneeling and you have an average where a guy can drill just about anything on the map, and if in a pinch can rapid fire off up to three shots. Where the Nitro rifle CAN ONLY EVER DO A MAXIMUM OF 2 SHOTS PER TURN and has an arbitrarily low accuracy when used in aimed shot... despite the fact that in reality Nitro Express Rifles are just as accurate and often more so as any production rifle because they usually machined lovingly by their manufacturers who only survive by reputation of quality alone.

And what it boils down to is if you can't hit, then you can't do damage and most guys don't have the firing accuracy in aimed to make it effective as with the Nitro Rifle because it doesn't provide the support it intends, and actually acts more like how a shotgun with slugs should rather than a high end smoke pole....It's a club pretending to be a scalpel. If it basically requires 25% more Firing accuracy on the part of the Agent to see the benefit of over the hunting rifle because of RNG, while outright sacrificing volume of fire means it's not as good.

Going with this line of argumentation, the best weapon is the Uzi at point blank. So many bullets mean so much damage per turn, right?

Look, what is better when facing an alien: one that has better DPS (even if accuracy is accounted for), or one that can drop the enemy before they drop you?

Put dirt simple... Half the time the Hunting rifle does as much damage as the Nitro Express Rifle but you can shoot it 3 times a turn and it has a higher capacity and is more accurate when necessary.

Look, I'm not saying Nitro is better. I'm just saying it's different. If it suits your style better, by all means, use it. But some people will prefer the Nitro. That's how it's supposed to be.

No, I didn't. There a heavy cannon I can pick up? nope. Also, THE NITRO RIFLE DOES REQUIRE RESEARCH TO OBTAIN!!!

Can you write a bit louder? I'm not sure you were heard across all the boards. :P

Yeah, there is some research involved, but it's pretty trivial compared to advanced heavy weapons. Even the Hunting Rifle requires research!

Also, did I say that it should have no drawbacks? Nope, in fact I mentioned including one. The art and behavior and Pedia entries point towards something like a Rigby in .416 or .458. There are larger....considering that .50BMG is less than half of the power :) But seriously .600 or .700 NE exist and blow huge holes in huge animals. Upping the damage and reduce the magazine capacity by one isn't clear. Here is what I meant to write  :P

Change the multiplier and damage to consistently give higher damage than the hunting rifle while still making accuracy of the agent using it matter.

OK, what numbers do you have in mind?

If you have 4 agents shoot a guy 8 FUCKING times with a Nitro Rifle and he says "HEHEHE, PILLOW FIGHT!!!" and then smokes 2 agents despite the fact he added 180+ grams of steel to his diet... You are right, it isn't bugged.... it is FUCKING BROKEN.

Bring it up with Warboy, or Julian Gollop. I'm sure they'll be responsive to your constructive criticism of the core game mechanics. Just use enough expletives so they know it is serious business.
Honestly, I've explained how the mechanics work already. Do I need to explain it again?

I called it the armadillo because like an armadillo it has leprosy. IT'S ARISAKA and NOT ARASAKA...

No, the company is called Arasaka and has always been:

(https://datafortress2020.com/conflictsa/bq0typns.jpg)

but fuck it... Whatever you call it, it is accurate, it has decent damage, but it's TU costs reflect a bolt action rifle rather than a semi auto and there were no 15 round magazines for the real series of Walther rifles... only 5, and unused 10... but this is not a hard thing to do in practicality so meh.... but YET AGAIN the hunting rifle beats it because of the fact it can perform 3 shots a turn and it does not do as much damage as the Nitro rifle and has a smaller multiplier and cannot keep up with the volume of fire. It doesn't suffer the issue that the hunting rifle does of "slow" reload, but still yet it cannot keep up with the rate of fire of the hunting rifile, although it is more accurate.

So, it might hit more often, the fact that it requires .35% TUs means less shots, less hits, and averaged out the hunting rifle will do more damage.... in snap. Aimed clearly falls to the Armadillo for accuracy but not in utility.

Was I clear?

Yes, but what are you trying to say? Is it good? Bad?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 29, 2016, 06:07:55 pm
Going with this line of argumentation, the best weapon is the Uzi at point blank. So many bullets mean so much damage per turn, right?

No, because the uzi does not have the accuracy to compete. If it had 70% Aim to snap it could contend, but it doesn't, so the uzi is almost useless beyond point blank and you know it.  ;)  Besides didn't I write accurate a few times? Don't try to dismiss my point, because you never considered it yourself. The projected damage of the Uzi in snap beats the hunting rifle if and only if all shots had a reasonable chance at hitting. But because shooting and dealing damage are two separate events such that both must be successful, the Uzi is a turd by comparison.

Look, what is better when facing an alien: one that has better DPS (even if accuracy is accounted for), or one that can drop the enemy before they drop you?

The two are synonymous. Bad guys get turned into dead guys by taking damage which in turn relies on two separate events that cannot be separated. Can does not imply reliably. Which is why the hunting rifle is better. It is more accurate when aimed at range with a feature that gives it additional chances to kill bad guys and based on numbers does the same damage as the Nitro rifle half the time.

Look, I'm not saying Nitro is better. I'm just saying it's different. If it suits your style better, by all means, use it. But some people will prefer the Nitro. That's how it's supposed to be.

You tried to and then could not come up with a suitable response to refute my argument and then tried to strawman me with an UZI?  ;D This sounds like an episode of supernatural....  We need scarecrows ,SOL!

If you want to see all of my data, I can and will provide it to you.


Can you write a bit louder? I'm not sure you were heard across all the boards. :P

Yes, as knuckle dragging Southern Burgergarian... I assure you, I can ALWAYS be louder.

OK, what numbers do you have in mind?

50 base and .25 multiplier. Snap at 45% TUs with 75% ACC. Aimed at 80%TUs with 120% accuracy. Increase mag by 1 for a total of 4 shots. Mag weight to 5

Still preserves the nature of the beast. Improves the accuracy to make it more usable while aimed and ups the initial probable damage without blowing the top off it so it still equals the same eventually, but is better initially. Mag plus one gives 1 additional shot for the 6 turn average.

Bring it up with Warboy, or Julian Gollop. I'm sure they'll be responsive to your constructive criticism of the core game mechanics. Just use enough expletives so they know it is serious business.
Honestly, I've explained how the mechanics work already. Do I need to explain it again?

No, because the damage formula from the first game was changed to the second because they saw how ridiculous it was, then it was bugged (broken). That's what I was implying, but the joke didn't come across very well... :-\ Blame my lack of education, redneck inbreeding or obesity.

Because: UFO: 0-200% for firearms
              TFTD: 50-150% for firearms

and I can't blame Julian because he fixed his mistake... and what would Warboy say??

Warboy would say something like "It's a mechanic of the original game. We are not here to change anything related to the core of the original gameplay".

 :)
No, the company is called Arasaka and has always been:

Those Shogunate posers are standing on the graves of TRUE innovators whose same-sound name and reputation was usurped for their shriveled Philip K. Dick  that is doomed to fail. ARISAKA! Where's the Black Lace?  ;)

Yes, but what are you trying to say? Is it good? Bad?

It is not bad at all, but doesn't reflect what it is.... a semi-auto high precision insturment tweaked by a megacorp to smash.

here is what I suggest...

A3K

Snap @ 32% TUs  and 80% ACC
AIM  @ 60% TUs   and 125% ACC
Leave the magsize alone....
But increase damage to 33 and leave the multipler at .20

now to cut the nuts off the Hunting rifle!

HR

Snap at 35% TUs and ACC at 70%
Aimed at 60% TUs and  ACC of 115
Decrease damage to 30

Take it easy,

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 30, 2016, 12:25:29 am
You tried to and then could not come up with a suitable response to refute my argument and then tried to strawman me with an UZI?  ;D This sounds like an episode of supernatural....  We need scarecrows ,SOL!

It's... Well, I never really understood what you wanted. You kept writing down info, I kept reading them and thinking, "well, yeah, and?"

50 base and .25 multiplier. Snap at 45% TUs with 75% ACC. Aimed at 80%TUs with 120% accuracy. Increase mag by 1 for a total of 4 shots. Mag weight to 5

A reasonably well-trained soldier, not an ace, has firing accuracy, say, 80 (max 120). At 80 accuracy, you get +20 bonus, so the total would be 70. You know what has 70 damage? Heavy Cannon with alien alloy ammo. Or a Gauss Rifle. With insanely good aim.
I really don't know how to say it any clearer. This is not a good idea.

No, because the damage formula from the first game was changed to the second because they saw how ridiculous it was, then it was bugged (broken).

I really won't discuss such "arguments".
In my opinion, the 50-150% formula sucks. It takes away so much fun. You may disagree, but calling it "broken" is an insult to reason.

and I can't blame Julian because he fixed his mistake... and what would Warboy say??

Julian did nothing, as he wasn't involved with TFTD at all.
That's not really a point, I changed many of his decisions. It's just trivia.

Warboy would say something like "It's a mechanic of the original game. We are not here to change anything related to the core of the original gameplay".

 :)

Yeah, that's the point of the remake. Of course I as a modder can change this can't of stuff. But I don't want to.

Bottom line: I can discuss fine-tuning. But I'm not willing to throw everything out the window to replace my arbitrary scale with some other arbitrary scale. Because mine is tied to the vanilla and also 9even more) to the Piratez, where many of these weapons originated. I don't want to break this frame and I don't see a reason to.

Those Shogunate posers are standing on the graves of TRUE innovators whose same-sound name and reputation was usurped for their shriveled Philip K. Dick  that is doomed to fail. ARISAKA! Where's the Black Lace?  ;)

Well, as much as I like Dick, I'd say Arasaka is a way more recognizable name. To be honest, despite having read many Dick's books, I can't remember this Arisaka company. And everyone in my generation who has played RPGs know what Arasaka is (Barett Arasaka is something nearly every single Cyberpunk character ever used :P ), so I made a little homage.

It is not bad at all, but doesn't reflect what it is.... a semi-auto high precision insturment tweaked by a megacorp to smash.

Sorry, but what are you basing what this is on? But okay, let's roll with it.

here is what I suggest...

A3K

Snap @ 32% TUs  and 80% ACC
AIM  @ 60% TUs   and 125% ACC
Leave the magsize alone....
But increase damage to 33 and leave the multipler at .20

So a little faster, a little less accurate... OK, but why?
And 33 is a tad too strong when compared to like 50 other weapons, from both X-Com Files and Piratez. Its calibre doesn't justify that. (The accuracy bonus is already stretching it.)

But I agree it would make it more deadly in AI's hands, even without the damage buff.

now to cut the nuts off the Hunting rifle!

HR

Snap at 35% TUs and ACC at 70%
Aimed at 60% TUs and  ACC of 115
Decrease damage to 30

Take it easy,

-HH

To be honest I don't really care either way. It's just a slightly different weapon. We could even have both.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on July 30, 2016, 01:54:19 am
You have to consider that most of this is happening out in the boonies so any police response is delayed long enough for the police to be irrellevant. [...]. Not to mention when police hear large amounts of gunfire the first thing the do is wait for it to stop before investigating.  ;D

This is a description of how it goes down in a country that is unable to assert its own sovereignity over its territories. Might be true for S. America, Africa or Bulgaria, but certainly not for the US, China or Russia. Before helpless and always late police, there is a MiG-31 (or its equivalent) taking down your ride like a bitch. And several other responses to airspace violation.

You would never get prior authorization to openly perform any operation like this with ANY guns from, or in ANY sovereignty....

You do. UN Peacekeepers, OSCE - rings a bell?

With exception if that agent was authorized to do so by his home country previously... So like if Xcom recruited a former FBI agent that was authorized to carry anywhere, then that would not be invalidated and thus could carry in the U.S. with no issues. Also maybe if Xcom was also registered as a private "security" contractors... but that is a whole nother deal that is relevant, but I don't want to post about it now.

This would mean X-Com is a terrorist organization - that's what you describe. Again, works against weak countries, but ends in a war when tried to be effected against a strong country (wars in Chechenia, Syria, Donbass).
I don't adress the point that internal license carries over - it's beyond the point here.

However, extreme exceptions aside... No , and mean I mean like no country would allow foreign nationals in with firearms of ANY sort in a police capacity without a resolution and express invitation, and what developed country would do that? uhhhh NONE! There is NO such thing as a secret UN resolution.

There would never be such authorization which is literally why I was like "lol wut"? The agents are already crossing into a foreign country that may or may not be a member of the UN and kill the absolute dogshit out of citizens of some country or another (cultists). Can you say multiple human rights violations? I can list at least 10 without even sweating. I mean seriously, the half measure ideology is actually so backwards it makes sense...If you have ever worked in any screwed up bureaucracy as I have.  :(

Well, the aliens came - remember? - and there well could be one. That's the game changer here. It is possible that the reason was that it was impossible to tell if the aliens haven't already infiltrated and subdued one of the major govts. Such a situation has 2 solutions: nuclear war or some sort of hated-by-everyone agreement like this one.

Xcom could not have enemies on the council for this to really work because this would be such a political hot potato that it wouldn't fly otherwise. Xcom would have to have the support of the council for the overall mission of the project because wrench, revolver, or rifle, you have personnel executing, kidnapping, interrogating, depriving of property, and denying religion of these poor cultists....to say the least.  :P

So what's new under the sun? If the powers that be said these people are enemies of humanity, such lofty rights no longer apply. Remember that any 'UN' agreement of this callibre would in reality be an agreement between few strongest countries on the planet, hence not bound by UN rules, if they get in the way. Remember Chechoslovakia 1938? Turkey 2016? Human rights and things like that can be suspended in the case of higher urgency (or convenience).

The UN / Council's mental dichotomy is insane, "Yes, violate the shit out of international law and the sovereignty of member nations wholesale. No, you can't have tools to help be sure you don't get caught and by extension prevent me/us from being caught". WTF?!!? Did they have a brain aneurysm before or after their crack binge?

'Don't get caught mode' - that's your assertion. I see no compelling argument that rules out some sort of mutual agreement. Infiltration can be effected by the target country. Arguments for not using RPGs are a) secrecy. No one wants the whole thing to get public, remeber? b) some factions of the country in question want the operation to fail.

The whole paranoia of "looking for any excuse shut X-Com down" is laughable, because the shooting  of a religious extremist coming to public attention is the kiss of death for anyone's diplomatic career (sometimes)....Unless you are uhh Russian, Chinese, or in parts of South America or Africa or 'Murrica :o ...but yeah! I bet they don't talk about Waco or Ruby Ridge in Poland  :-\

What's with these internal police operations that completely got out of control? What does it have to do with international affairs?

which there were none really for the officers involved. So in Xcom's case the UN or council could not admit prior knowledge of Xcom's "illegal" activity without exposing themselves, and admitting that there was a secret UN taskforce that violated the law equally endangers the council for the same reason. Catch-22.

It's a task force sent by a potentially hostile country, which you MUST admit in none the less. Not your OWN task force. You will be all to happy to see them fail and have a pretext for your own military to move in and seize the activity site. Why do you think crashed UFOs dissappear? I think it's some sort of a proof.

Because It would be that way, I hope that those council / UN members involved recognize the damage of public scrutiny. I would hope they realized that they need to take every step to be sure that there are no surviving enemy combatants, which minimizes witnesses; which means having the tools to get the job done and leaving behind the strangest cases of mass suicide.  8)

Mass disappearance, you mean. This point is adressed above.

Also, so what if they are exposed? Big. fucking. deal. The scandal would blow over rather quickly and be credited to rouge elements within the organization and not the totality of the organization itself whereupon the organization would be renamed and continue operations more carefully. Have you ever watched CNN?  :-X

They don't risk exposure. They risk being deemed a wrong idea, and making signataries to dissolve the treaty that created X-Com. The whole scenario here is, 'aliens came and UN council agreed to form X-Com', remember? If X-Com fails, we go to the previous option (>towards nuclear war).

Anyways, my point is this. If they have already made the decision to risk it all, why would they bother with arbitrary limitations that increases the chances of them being caught in a scandal? We can think this out a few ways. 

1. There is no risk of exposure, then authorization is meaningless. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
2. There is some risk of exposure; It is necessary to maximize success and thus control the number of witnesses. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
3. The organization is publicly exposed; There is no need to be politically sensitive now; rename the organization and see 2. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
4. The organization is operating secretly with complete UN / Council authorization; call Izmash; AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
5. The organization is secret with backers being scared of exposure and won't stop you, but won't help you either. Call Izmash. AKs and RPGs for everyone!!!
6. The organization is fucking around trying to appease idiotic jackasses who don't realize their idiocy. Ignore them and call Izmash. AKs and RPGs for everyone!

Due to above, all wrong. Here:
7) The organization is operating secretly with reluctant approval of backer countries. They want it to succeed, because we live on a single planet; they want it to fail, since every major country would rather have everything for itself.

Now, that being said known violations from one country to another that could be potentially embarrassing are often glossed over... I'll give you a few examples Like the form 60, Aralsk-7 incident... [...]
Or the fact that Russia could read EVERY U.S. confidential cable transmission and electronic diplomatic transmission and knew about the drug smuggling operations for funding  South American friends of the CIA, where known CIA handlers where present and involved and where drugs were sold on America's streets. This could of easily embarrassed the U.S., but Russia remained quiet about it.

Because if they started to escalate like this - exposing everything - they would be an international drunkard with an axe? Revealing such things is a direct attack on an opposing country; overusing it, aliens or no aliens, leads to option 1 (nuclear war).

In short. It's silly to not have access to common weapons and equipment from the beginning stemming from arguments about authorization or availability.

Do you understand? Do I make my arguments clear? You can wholeheartedly disagree and have ultimate power, but it is important that I be clear.

Very clearly you don't take the alien factor, and nuclear war factor, into consideration. You cannot do so on a planet with nuclear superpowers and alien invasion.

btw Poland is gorgeous.

Whatever did you really mean by that, good or bad, twice the same to you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on July 30, 2016, 07:32:52 am
Dioxine,

I don't think you understand that I'm speaking of the time before open alien intervention. Otherwise, I think you would use different arguments. If this is not the case, then we'll continue along this track and sort it out at the end. Just let me know.

Poland is gorgeous. I spent some time basically camping, drinking and hiking through your national park system as a teenager...it was glorious.

Have a great day,

HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on July 31, 2016, 11:23:38 am
I got a computer once again! Once I get some free time, I'm gonna have lots of fun with this mod! Playing FMP in the meanwhile, its fantastic!

So, while I was munching on some biscuits, I thought about new ways of making the player suffer, some ideas I always I could implement.
 Here's what I got in mind:

- Give Dodge to Floaters, sorta like the remake? Alternatively, make them fly as fast as they "walk" (I may be wrong, but I think hovering uses more TUs than walking).
- Give Reapers the ability to "walk" into the scenery, allowing them to attack you through walls, for example.
- No idea what to give Sectoids. Maybe in the mid-game from then on they come in "Pectoid" (like Xcom2) varieties with Mechtoid support? One psionic in every vessel instead of just in Terror Missions and such?

- I always thought the Snakemen were the lamest of all aliens. Sectoids have telepathy, Floaters fly, Snakemen... uh, Chrysalids are their terror troops? They're pretty much "uh, we're middle-game aliens with middle-game stats." So here's an idea: UFOPaedia tells us that Snakemen are very efficient reproducers. Bring that ability into the game! Have them keep laying eggs during missions, creating "Snakemen Hatchlings" or some unit like that, some mini-snakeman with a built-in attack (say, venomous spit. Also, makes Hazmat more useful!). Something weak, but could be hell if left alone to fester.
        I'm thinking this would make the Snakemen the "breeder" aliens that punish camping. It also provides a nice contrast with the Chrysalids - Snakemen breed by themselves and punish campers, Chrysalids need civvies or X-COM to increase their numbers, and punish those who advance wrongly or fail to save civilians from them. This could also make Snakemen Terror a new level of terror - choose between rushing to avoid the Snakemen Apocalypse, or camp to avoid being swarmed by the Chrysalid Apocalypse?

- Reptoids regenerate. Failed to kill that Reptoid? It will heal soon.


Need to think of ways the player could be hurt strategically by the aliens, hmm...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 31, 2016, 11:41:53 am
I got a computer once again! Once I get some free time, I'm gonna have lots of fun with this mod! Playing FMP in the meanwhile, its fantastic!

Thanks!
It's still a baby, but it already has teeth.

So, while I was munching on some biscuits, I thought about new ways of making the player suffer, some ideas I always I could implement.
 Here's what I got in mind:

- Give Dodge to Floaters, sorta like the remake? Alternatively, make them fly as fast as they "walk" (I may be wrong, but I think hovering uses more TUs than walking).

Frankly I haven't worked on the aliens in regards to dodging yet. It only works against melee anyway.
And no, hovering doesn't take more TUs.

- Give Reapers the ability to "walk" into the scenery, allowing them to attack you through walls, for example.

...and how would I do this?

- No idea what to give Sectoids. Maybe in the mid-game from then on they come in "Pectoid" (like Xcom2) varieties with Mechtoid support? One psionic in every vessel instead of just in Terror Missions and such?

I think they're fine just as they are. They do get some special weapons though (mostly spamming Elerium Bombs).

- I always thought the Snakemen were the lamest of all aliens. Sectoids have telepathy, Floaters fly, Snakemen... uh, Chrysalids are their terror troops? They're pretty much "uh, we're middle-game aliens with middle-game stats." So here's an idea: UFOPaedia tells us that Snakemen are very efficient reproducers. Bring that ability into the game! Have them keep laying eggs during missions, creating "Snakemen Hatchlings" or some unit like that, some mini-snakeman with a built-in attack (say, venomous spit. Also, makes Hazmat more useful!). Something weak, but could be hell if left alone to fester.
        I'm thinking this would make the Snakemen the "breeder" aliens that punish camping. It also provides a nice contrast with the Chrysalids - Snakemen breed by themselves and punish campers, Chrysalids need civvies or X-COM to increase their numbers, and punish those who advance wrongly or fail to save civilians from them. This could also make Snakemen Terror a new level of terror - choose between rushing to avoid the Snakemen Apocalypse, or camp to avoid being swarmed by the Chrysalid Apocalypse?

Again, how do you do this sort of thing?
Anyway, what would a Snakeman baby do? Crawl towards you menacingly while begging for small invertebrates to feed on?

- Reptoids regenerate. Failed to kill that Reptoid? It will heal soon.

Reptoids aren't in the mod yet, and I assure you they'll be quite interesting. A hint: they are not aliens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on August 01, 2016, 06:47:07 am
Quote
Thanks!
It's still a baby, but it already has teeth.



Quote
Frankly I haven't worked on the aliens in regards to dodging yet. It only works against melee anyway.
And no, hovering doesn't take more TUs.

Only melee? Damn. Still sounds like a evil ability to give to an alien.
It doesn't? My eyes must be fooling me.



Quote
...and how would I do this?

You know, that's a good question. May be impossible.

Another alternative would be just making Reapers tougher and their AI bolder. They're quite weak and lame.

Quote
I think they're fine just as they are. They do get some special weapons though (mostly spamming Elerium Bombs).

Quote

Again, how do you do this sort of thing?
Anyway, what would a Snakeman baby do? Crawl towards you menacingly while begging for small invertebrates to feed on?

Maybe they perfected begging into the next level of weapon, it makes your soldiers suicide or berserk. ;D And that's why the Snakemen are R strategists

Hey, Hyperworms could be literally teared from the guts of their mother, and yet just hearing them triggered me faster than you can say "THE BLIGHT IS APPROACHING" in a female voice out of a computer savant.

I thought about giving Snakemen Hatchlings a short-range venomous spit attack. Fatal-ish to unarmored troops, dangerous to vests, annoying to personal armor, a bother to early tanks, insignificant to Power Armor/Hazmat. Possibly with a armor-eroding effect, to make them dangerous even later on in significant amounts. They should be quite weak and one shot from any normal weapon should be enough to kill them. In fact, maybe armor-eroding should be their real attack, because that means they complement Chrysalids and Snakemen better - Snakes kill your soldiers with more ease, Chrysalids don't lose warm bodies that could be used for impregnation instead.

(if you want to be extra evil, have the hatchlings pick up and eat dead bodies and turn into something tougher. Because what Chrysalids don't impregnate, the snakes eat. Also, there goes your gear lol)

Maybe every Snakeman carries eggs on inventory, and eggs "hatch" as new snakemen hatchlings during the alien turn (with full TU, as per Chrysalids/Spitters). The eggs are objects so you can pick them up (I'm thinking they won't hatch if you do, like Brainsucker eggs in Apoc), or destroy them with explosives, or a cheap "Destroy" use action.

Alternatively, every start of a alien turn, a Snakeman "lays" a egg (no TU spent - its a free action unique to them) before moving on its patrol.

Now how many Snakemen would be able to lay eggs and at which rate, let me look at the maths:

1 egg per turn, every turn, all snakes:

Small Scout (8 crew):
Turn 1: 0 Hatchlings
Turn 2: 8 hatchlings
Turn 3: 16 hatchlings

of course the player is probably killing Snakes every turn, but... uh, doesn't work.

Setup 2: 1 egg per turn, laid every two turns, all snakes:

Small Scout (8 crew):
Human Turn 1: No eggs no hatchlings.
Alien Turn 1: 0 Hatchlings, 8 eggs (from now all turns are alien turns for simplicity)
Turn 2: 8 hatchlings (minus any killed by player), no eggs
Turn 3: 8 hatchlings minus any killed, 8 minus X killed Snakemen eggs
Turn 4: 16 hatchling minus any killed previously, 0 eggs.
Turn 5: 16 hatchling minus any killed previously, 8 minus X killed Snakemen eggs
Turn 6: 24 hatchlings minus X killed, 0 eggs.


Setup 3: 1 egg per turn, every three turns:

Human Turn 1: 8 Snakes, 0 eggs.
Alien Turn 1: 8 - X Snakes, 8 - X eggs laid
Alien Turn 2: 8 - X Snakes, 8 - X eggs still laid
Alien Turn 3: 8 - X Snakes, 8 - Y hatchlings.
Alien Turn 4: 8 - X Snakes, 8 - Y hatchlings, 8 - X eggs.
Alien Turn 5: 8 - X Snakes, 8 - Y hatchlings, 8 - X eggs
Alien Turn 6: 8 - X Snakes, (8 - Y hatchlings) + (8 - x eggs = 8 - y Hatchlings).

With Snakemen Terror, let's say there's 18 Snakes 6 Chrysalids (they don't matter to the calculation, tho):
18 - X (where X is DEAD) hatchlings by turn 3, 36 - X by turn 6... hmmm, this is problematic.

Let me try a slower rate, I'm not very good at math:

Small Scout with 8 snakes:

0 eggs or hatchlings by Human Turn 1, 8 eggs by Alien Turn 1, same, same, 8 hatchlings, 8 hatchlings and 8 eggs, same, same, 16 hatchlings, 16 hatchlings and 8 eggs, same, same, 24 hatchlings by turn 12.

Terror Ship with 18 snakes

0 eggs or hatchlings by Human Turn 1, 18 eggs by AT1, same, same, 18 hatchlings 0 eggs, 18 hatchlings and 18 eggs, same, same, 36 hatchlings... hmmm...


Trying new hatchlings every five turns:

Turn 5: 8 or 18
Turn 10: 16 or 36
Turn 15: 24 or 54
Turn 20: 32 or 72

Of course, the problem here is that not even the greatest of mathematics can calculate how many Snakemen and laid eggs a X-COM player kills per turn (personally, I win missions before turn 3, because I am the best.  ;) ).

Also, it might lead to new tactics or situations, from bringing extra ammo to bringing hazmat, knives and swords to wade through the hatchling hordes.

The simpler situation is to go the Hyperworm route and have a lot of Snakemen hatchlings come out of dead Megaworms/Snakemen. The obvious problem is that is easily exploitable (and tiresome), just have a guy with HE munitions standing by.

Poor Snakemen do come off as the suckiest aliens, when by comparison:

- Sectoids have psionics and those hellish reactions
- Floaters fly
- Mutons are tough
- Ethereals are all psionic.

Quote
Reptoids aren't in the mod yet, and I assure you they'll be quite interesting. A hint: they are not aliens.

The British Royal Family?  ;D
And I got the "not alien" from the autopsy in my game.

Personally I'm betting on Gillman descendants/offshoots. I always thought a lot more could have been done with the poor Gillies, as they are a species defeated by alien invasion - I once had this story idea for a "Last Days of the Gillmen" story, where we see their society before T'Leth falls, then its effects. The Gillmen polities ("Schools", as in fish schools?) create a X-COM equivalent, as civilization falls, their race dies in cold, hunger and conflict between themselves and the new alien invader, their leaders sell themselves out in drooves to the Aquatoid aliens and their world cools down into a nuclear winter snowball.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 01, 2016, 01:49:17 pm
Well I'm stuck again. I can't get this damn PSICLONE no matter what. I've completed like five EXALT base missions, tens of hideouts and activities and still nothing. I even added it to every single EXALT unit in alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul and still not even one spawned anywhere.

Also I don't know, whether it is intentional or not, but now after researching BlackOps Smartguns are not availible for purchase.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 01, 2016, 05:19:40 pm
Another alternative would be just making Reapers tougher and their AI bolder. They're quite weak and lame.

Yes, I can do this. Namely increase their Aggression stat. I'm not sure how exactly it'd work, it would need some testing.


Maybe they perfected begging into the next level of weapon, it makes your soldiers suicide or berserk. ;D

Psionic Snakemen babies? You, sir, are scaring me! :D

I thought about giving Snakemen Hatchlings a short-range venomous spit attack. Fatal-ish to unarmored (...)

It's a very interesting concept. Unfortunately, there's nothing in the engine that would allow laying eggs. If it ever happens, we can discuss the details.

The British Royal Family?  ;D
And I got the "not alien" from the autopsy in my game.

Yeah, but their actual arc isn't in the game yet.

And Gillmen are interesting indeed. They're not related to the Reptoids though - Reps have their own agenda, and they like neither Ethereals not T'leth.

Well I'm stuck again. I can't get this damn PSICLONE no matter what. I've completed like five EXALT base missions, tens of hideouts and activities and still nothing. I even added it to every single EXALT unit in alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul and still not even one spawned anywhere.

OK, I'll test this. From the ruleset it should work, but if it doesn't, I'll fix it.

Also I don't know, whether it is intentional or not, but now after researching BlackOps Smartguns are not availible for purchase.

I'll check this too, I remember something wasn't right with Smartpistols in the released version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 01, 2016, 11:06:13 pm
Sol,

STR_Moneybag when selling the moneybag appears. No biggy.


I have however realized something, I'm not sure if it is a feature or a bug actually. So using a van or car I discovered something. I've started Fewer bases, more teams, more hangars. I've started salting teams around the world way pointing them from continent to continent. My poor agents are sometimes spending upwards 30-40 days in the field waiting for a mission, flying around the world and living in a fetid van full of unwashed body odor, empty cigarette packs and coffee cups.... poor bastards.

So having 12-15 teams in the air at a time is pretty efficient really. My guys still gain stats from being at the gym. After a mission I transfer craft to the nearest base for resupply and crew rotation before shoving them back out into the world. My reaction time is a touch less <48 hours anywhere in the world, and <24  that in most places. I'm about to add another 20 agents, 2-3 teams as about 10-15% of my agents are wounded usually. So I need to know. Me using vans like this, clever or cheating?

The only thing I'm really having issues with is generations of equipment. You know issuing new gear to folks. where I have to roll through each van piecemeal....its tedious but whatever.

I swear I'm not stalking you, but I read you were thinking of adding a few mission types?

Are you open to some ideas there?

Oh! and when can we expect an update...no rush you understand, just curious.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 02, 2016, 12:17:17 am
Sol,

STR_Moneybag when selling the moneybag appears. No biggy.

Yeah, my bad. Will be fixed in the next release.

I have however realized something, I'm not sure if it is a feature or a bug actually. So using a van or car I discovered something. I've started Fewer bases, more teams, more hangars. I've started salting teams around the world way pointing them from continent to continent. My poor agents are sometimes spending upwards 30-40 days in the field waiting for a mission, flying around the world and living in a fetid van full of unwashed body odor, empty cigarette packs and coffee cups.... poor bastards.

So having 12-15 teams in the air at a time is pretty efficient really. My guys still gain stats from being at the gym. After a mission I transfer craft to the nearest base for resupply and crew rotation before shoving them back out into the world. My reaction time is a touch less <48 hours anywhere in the world, and <24  that in most places. I'm about to add another 20 agents, 2-3 teams as about 10-15% of my agents are wounded usually. So I need to know. Me using vans like this, clever or cheating?

I don't think it's cheating, you're just using your agents as you see fit. This is between you, them and the employment standards violation office. :)

Of course you can't train them if they're in the field all the time, but you know that.

But I don't think it's necessary, most if not all missions last long enough for you to reach them. And if you target a mission (not a landed UFO) with a vehicle, it won't disappear - that's how the engine works.

The only thing I'm really having issues with is generations of equipment. You know issuing new gear to folks. where I have to roll through each van piecemeal....its tedious but whatever.

Sadly, it's unavoidable. It's either this or dumbing down the game. I hope it's not too bad.

I swear I'm not stalking you, but I read you were thinking of adding a few mission types?

A few? You mean dozens! :)

Are you open to some ideas there?

Sure, but 1) my list is already long, 2) I can't guarantee any ideas will get in. Even if they're good, I need to keep stuff balanced, both in terms of gameplay and story.

Oh! and when can we expect an update...no rush you understand, just curious.

Not very soon, since I'm making a new faction and it'll take ages. Unless I release a fix or something, since there are some non-critical bugs like missing strings.

Also I don't know, whether it is intentional or not, but now after researching BlackOps Smartguns are not availible for purchase.

Can you please elaborate on what you have researched? Maybe you could give me a save? Because I can't see what's wrong...

Well I'm stuck again. I can't get this damn PSICLONE no matter what.

CRAP! You are right, they are not spawned, even though they should. Apparently battleType: 9 is ignored on AI units.
Looks like I'll have to release a fix after all...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 02, 2016, 01:05:43 am
Researching Contact BlakOps grants us posibility to buy few new weapons, including Assult rifle and CAWS. Smartgun is not among them. I'll send You a save tomorrow.

Thanks, good to know. Those bastards costed me so much nerves. I'll be more than happy to raid them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 02, 2016, 01:19:43 am
Researching Contact BlakOps grants us posibility to buy few new weapons, including Assult rifle and CAWS. Smartgun is not among them. I'll send You a save tomorrow.

No need, I now understand your issue. In order to buy smart weapons, you must first discover they exist. BlackOps won't tell you about them, since it's exclusive merchandise for customers who are more important than X-Com. But if you find a smart weapon and press them about it, they'll admit they produce them and from now on will sell them to you.
So in other words, you must find a smart weapon on the battlefield. At the moment only the Men in Black use them (it'll change though).

EDIT:
Update!
https://www.mediafire.com/download/esb2mpaq52a0hyd/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.2.3.zip

- Electro-Flares now work underwater.
- Fixed a problem with Psiclone not appearing.
- Fixed a problem with Underwater Operations showing up in the Ufopaedia too early.
- Some tweaks to vanilla alien resistances.
- Made Chryssalids more aggressive.
- Added Skorpion SMG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 02, 2016, 04:51:39 am
Sol,

STR_EXALT_UFOPEDIA... doh!

Yeah, I actually have a very long pipeline process for agents. It's expensive, but worthwhile. It goes like this and I even use little symbols to help me along.

1. Initial Hire batch

2. Hard Sort (Factor total attributes and take the top 70% average of all attribute candidates and min bravery 20 bravery )  (meat)

3. Enroll in Gym for 2-3 months with no field work until most attributes decent to great (Rookie junior grade)

4. 3-5 missions on a team paired with 1 senior officer, 1 mid grade officer, 2 rookies Rookie senior grade

5. Team formation of proven agents are then assigned to a permanent team of their peers being rotated out or replaced by attrition or merit.
I'm operating 20, 4 man teams right now with a total of 97 agents. I have no other craft  than vans and am waiting to consolidate them into better transports.

I have 12 regular squads named after real ferocious animals

Teams: Lion, Crocodile , wolverine, Puma, Shark, Boar, Shrew, Snake, Goshhawk, Eagle, and Wolf.

4 veteran squads named after mythological creatures.

Teams: Basilisk, Manticore , Dragon, and Minotaur

3 squads of training Cadre named after ancient dictator and generals

Cincinnatus, Hannibal, Scipio

1 Squad of the most elite who have survived crazy missions, have 65+ kills, and are called only when they are not training rookies and every motherfucker in the room HAS TO DIE. Named after NEGATIVE emotions

Team: Wrath

This is the process for forming a standard team or squad. Beyond that their are special squads about a rate of 1 to 4 of veteran to standard squads. These are the real door kickers or pinch hitters. Who you call in for the missions you know are really going to suck.

It hasn't gone well for anyone or anything against team wrath...


-HH

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 02, 2016, 01:56:58 pm
Man I hate to be this guy again, but I found another glitch with my favourite EXALT. Reseaching their HQ works fine, but the Ufopedia entry causes CTD. Code 0xc000005.


EDIT: Also two smaller issues: High explosives are not availible for purchase after resarching Milestone 2 (although Ufopedia says it should be), and menu related to Commendations (diary in base and medals after mission) have weird colors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 02, 2016, 02:08:11 pm
Man I hate to be this guy again, but I found another glitch with my favourite EXALT. Reseaching their HQ works fine, but the Ufopedia entry causes CTD. Code 0xc000005.

No worries, I'm sorry, this goddamn EXALT has already caused me way more trouble than anything else. I'll fix it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 03, 2016, 06:36:33 am
Sol,

Ain't it just like Exalt to crap in everyone's punch bowl.... :)

And

I've kind of found myself at an impasse as to how to proceed. Dealing with the Black Lotus... I don't have access to transport for more men to give myself a real shot and the ninjas... ugh. I'm so over the silly invisible tards.  I can't buy explosives and anything more than a hit and run on a base mission is suicide at least with the BL . Suggestions? Even eye laser shooty lady isn't as silly as ninjas.


Why is the M16 classified as having a slow reload?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 03, 2016, 08:40:59 am
OK, regarding EXALT HQ... I've attached the fix, put it in the Ruleset folder.

What was missing:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_EXALT_HQ
    bigSprite: 299
    weight: 0
    invWidth: 2
    invHeight: 3

I've kind of found myself at an impasse as to how to proceed. Dealing with the Black Lotus... I don't have access to transport for more men to give myself a real shot and the ninjas... ugh. I'm so over the silly invisible tards.  I can't buy explosives and anything more than a hit and run on a base mission is suicide at least with the BL . Suggestions? Even eye laser shooty lady isn't as silly as ninjas.

If you don't want to wait for a bigger transport, you could build a new base in the Black Lotus region and use Mudranger from there. I know at least two people who did it successfully.

Why is the M16 classified as having a slow reload?

I'll check :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 03, 2016, 03:07:55 pm
Anyone else got this color glitch? Because frankly only after this release Commendation worked for me so maybe it is something on my side.

Anyway I just fought one of the most epic battles ever in Xcom. Having allready Dragonfly and standard military equipement I've stumbled upon MiB terrorising some city. They had better gear, but my soldiers had better training (I suppose). Trying to get rid f their tanks I had to tear down half of the city. When situation seemed to be under control all of a suden a freaking Sectopod walked out of the storage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 03, 2016, 06:33:03 pm
How can I wait for bigger transport when I must capture dudes to tor..I mean...interrogate for information to build such craft?



Also, bases disappear after an unsuccessful mission.... that's annoying. Is a base going to be there long enough for me to build a base when one reappears?

Also, why does the double barrel shotgun have fast reload?

Edited because I'm an idiot

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 03, 2016, 06:41:53 pm
Anyone else got this color glitch? Because frankly only after this release Commendation worked for me so maybe it is something on my side.

Anyway I just fought one of the most epic battles ever in Xcom. Having allready Dragonfly and standard military equipement I've stumbled upon MiB terrorising some city. They had better gear, but my soldiers had better training (I suppose). Trying to get rid f their tanks I had to tear down half of the city. When situation seemed to be under control all of a suden a freaking Sectopod walked out of the storage.

Wow.
You must be pretty deep in the campaign. Would you mind sending me a save? I'm just curious what you have by this point.

How can I wait for bigger transport when I must capture dudes to tor..I mean...interrogate for information to build such craft?

*whistling*
:D

Also, bases disappear after an unsuccessful mission.... that's annoying. Is a base going to be there long enough for me to build a base when one reappears?

No, sadly I can't really do that. You need to wait until it reappears. But it's usually in a consistent location.

Also, why does the double barrel shotgun have fast reload?

Because Doom. 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 03, 2016, 07:36:35 pm
Because Doom. 8)

As good an answer as any...


I've noticed some of the flavor text is incomplete.... no bigge.

Also, there are some copy editing issues, nothing major but they exist. Also some ambiguity with some of the biological concepts discussed in certain autopsies and reports. I happen to be a very educated person with background in biology and noticed it... do you want me to provide suggestions or keep my mouth shut?

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 03, 2016, 07:50:06 pm
I've noticed some of the flavor text is incomplete.... no bigge.

Yeah, it's all very much still in production.

Also, there are some copy editing issues, nothing major but they exist. Also some ambiguity with some of the biological concepts discussed in certain autopsies and reports. I happen to be a very educated person with background in biology and noticed it... do you want me to provide suggestions or keep my mouth shut?

Sure!
But remember there is very little space for text in Ufopaedia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 03, 2016, 08:38:23 pm
Here You go.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2016, 10:46:47 am
Thanks! I'll have a look over the weekend.

In other news, I am currently working on a new arc, the 'Cyberweb arc'. In this continuity, the Cyberweb is a loose criminal organization of scientists who managed to secure some extraterrestrial technology and made very good use of it. They are pursuing knowledge, doing dangerous experiments and doing Black Mesa stuff, but on small scale. They use robotic soldiers, experimental energy weapons (crude but powerful) and cybernetic augmentations. They also normally live in very small groups in underground vaults.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 05, 2016, 11:54:50 pm
Sounds neat. But chronologilcally (after a starting new game) where it would be placed? Before, during or after cult arc?


Also a quick report. After knocking out
Brainer
  in EXALT HQ (I HATE THOSE F*&%$@S!!!!!!!)I got something like this:
Quote
OpenXcom has crashed: Invalid surface set 'EXALT_BRAINER.PCK for armor 'EXALT_BRAINER_ARMOR': not enoght frames


And also a small question. Is it a pure coincidence or the Xenologist on purpose looks like one respected expert?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e0/8a/be/e08abe33e06a8417779f8e12b58b0b83.jpg)


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 06, 2016, 02:23:48 am
Is there a feature where you can kill live enemies in containment?

I have tons of live zombies from missions and I want their corpses.

HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: nadir-1648 on August 06, 2016, 04:49:55 am
Is there a feature where you can kill live enemies in containment?

I have tons of live zombies from missions and I want their corpses.

HH
Right click the alien containment facility in the base screen to bring up the alien containment management dialogue. There you can execute prisoners remove specimens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2016, 11:35:17 am
Sounds neat. But chronologilcally (after a starting new game) where it would be placed? Before, during or after cult arc?

After, but they will somewhat overlap. This faction will be somewhat related to one of the cult factions, so you will need to get pretty far with that cult faction to discover these guys.

Also a quick report. After knocking out
Brainer
  in EXALT HQ (I HATE THOSE F*&%$@S!!!!!!!)I got something like this:

Ouch. Worked for me, but there could be something that broke with the newest version of the .exe. I admit there was a dirty hack regarding this unit, but it never gave me trouble before.
You don't happen to have a save, do you?

And also a small question. Is it a pure coincidence or the Xenologist on purpose looks like one respected expert?

Not consciously, but it's a brilliant idea!


EDIT:
Yeah, the Brainer's entry in armors_XCOMFILES.rul, under EXALT_BRAINER_ARMOR, lacked:

Code: [Select]
    drawingRoutine: 4

It's crashing it...

Quick fix attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on August 07, 2016, 03:56:37 pm
Not consciously, but it's a brilliant idea!
Thanks, it gave me quite laughs, when I figured this out.


So... I'm one step from ascending into regular X-com, so here are my thoughts on balance. (if someone doesnt want to spoil themeselves fun, please dont read this) Sol, keep in mind, that these are not complaints, but only suggestions:

1. After some time sky is swarming with UFOs, and I don't have means to shut them down. It is before my third promoion, but I did a speed run, accepting all important mission to get rid of the cults as quick as possible, but some (mostly bases and HQs) don't spawn very often. So in the end I'm waiting for Black Lotus to spawn while being unable to counteract against full-blown alien invasion. I'd suggest delaying UFOs a bit.
2. I really don't see the point in Jumpsuits right now. They require a special material, and by the time I get it(after Red Dawn HQ) I have my strike teams allready equiped with Armored Vests, which have much better protection. It is heavier, but thanks to gym all my soldiers have strenght at 70, so they can manage it.
3. The  EXALT HQ was one of the most awesome as well as hardest missions ever. Without special gear and heavilly outnumbered my men were droping like flies. And in those labirinths of rooms and corridors it was very easy to overlook someone. But after some time it became really frustrating, when chasing the last enemy alive (and previouslly stunned, who came to their senses) with only 8, underequipped men. After long time I gave up and hauled my soldiers along with the most important prisoners to the LZ. (by the way, the last, post mortem insult from EXALT: Terminate the EXALT doesn't has UFOpedia entry at all, i mean not a blank page with STR_TERMINATE_THE_EXALT, but it doesn't even show)
4. While i love the concept of camouflaged enemies, those damn ninjas tend to camp to much. Few times I had to resign from the mission in the same manner, because some of my men were bleeding to their deaths and I ran out of medicines to tend them. And getting every single unit (inclufing tired ones) to vechicles took so loooooong.
5. I don't know, if this can be changed (or is a part of game mechanics), but shotgun loaded with Breneka(or other AP rounds) can be used as sniper rifle and take down a target from a long distance. And because shotgun has so low AP cost it's currentlly better than SR.

None of this issues changes the fact, that Your mod is a masterpiece, and gave me so much fun. I can't wait for the next release.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 07, 2016, 08:43:19 pm
Thank you very much for the review, and for playing the mod in the first place!

ad. 1) I don't know what I can do about it. You can still hope for a landing nearby...

ad. 2) I am still thinking how to make Jumpsuits more useful. Once Environments are in, they may become more attractive.

ad. 3) Yeah, it's a very long mission, and extraction with the captive is not a bad idea. The Ufopaedia bug will be fixed in the next version.

ad. 4) Sorry, the ninjas are staying. ;)

ad. 5) I've just rebalanced shotguns, hopefully for the better.

Again, many thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 09, 2016, 01:31:14 am
Right click the alien containment facility in the base screen to bring up the alien containment management dialogue. There you can execute prisoners remove specimens.

THANKS!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 09, 2016, 03:54:31 am
Actually detention it appears to be bugged. I've attached two screen shots and will describe the situation.

In the "detention center" It does not show zombies, fat zombies, or infectors, mongorn savages etc.

Thus I can't kill them to get their sweet sweet blood plasma to inject into my own dudes on missions.

Gehey....


Also,

1. Armadillo 3K is way too good.

2. How come I have samples of hyper advanced weaponry that I cannot research it. That completely ruins the effort I spent in obtaining it. Please, don't give me any "it's illegal" bullshit.

3. How the FUCK do you justify not giving access to all earth weapons when you have trusted officers burning people alive. I can't get good funs beause. "illegality"?? FUCKING STUPID.

4. Ninjas are silly cliches that make me almost want to quit playing.... well done. :)

More to follow... need food and beer.

-HH

edited because it is edited...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2016, 10:30:09 am
Actually detention it appears to be bugged. I've attached two screen shots and will describe the situation.

In the "detention center" It does not show zombies, fat zombies, or infectors, mongorn savages etc.

Thus I can't kill them to get their sweet sweet blood plasma to inject into my own dudes on missions.

Gehey....

This is strange, but potentially good news: I've always wanted for human prisoners to not take up space in the Alien Containment. Because it's called Alien Containment.

Do these non-alien monsters take up space in the Alien Containment?
Can they be sold?

Also,

1. Armadillo 3K is way too good.

Arma-what? What mod were you playing? -_-

2. How come I have samples of hyper advanced weaponry that I cannot research it. That completely ruins the effort I spent in obtaining it. Please, don't give me any "it's illegal" bullshit.

Depends. Which weaponry?
And if illegal stuff is bullshit to you, then maybe you picked a wrong organization to lead. :P

3. How the FUCK do you justify not giving access to all earth weapons when you have trusted officers burning people alive. I can't get good funs beause. "illegality"?? FUCKING STUPID.

Not my problem.

4. Ninjas are silly cliches that make me almost want to quit playing.... well done. :)

Thank you. :)
BTW Meridian has just upgraded his .exe by adding more options for invisibility. The ninjas are likely getting a makeover.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on August 09, 2016, 08:11:26 pm
The Ninjas were why I stopped playing...

...  Well, where I stopped playing for 3-4 hours at a time, and instead, spread the ONE OUTPOST FIGHT over 1 hour per day for 6 days, because they would last forever...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 10, 2016, 05:59:05 pm
This is strange, but potentially good news: I've always wanted for human prisoners to not take up space in the Alien Containment. Because it's called Alien Containment.
Do these non-alien monsters take up space in the Alien Containment?
Can they be sold?

That would be fine if they showed up to my base as corpses after a mission because I didn't have an "alien containment", but they don't. I would even accept the extra step of corpsifying them in the afteraction screen. I need their corpses, but can't make them corpses. Unless I can research a blood plasma prison or get more plasma units by actively sucking a monster dry.... morbid.

I don't have an Alien Containment as of yet, but a Detention Center and no, Monsters do not take up space in a Detention center, but can be sold.
I will update you when I build an Alien Containment.

Arma-what? What mod were you playing? -_-

You mean this isn't the TEX-COM Files? ??? Shit, my bad .... :)

But the Arasaka 3000 is a top tier piece of gear that turns a mediocre marksman into a tyrant. Cool. There is no point in using anything else with experinced agents....yet. 4-8 dudes shooting dots out dice at 100 yards in the driving rain at night.

Depends. Which weaponry?

Alloy ammunition, Laser, Gauss, and Plasma weapons...all of them. I've also have samples of all of them. I also have had sundry alien technology for months and can't research it. UFO Navigations, UFO power sources, examination rooms, alloys, mind probes etc

And if illegal stuff is bullshit to you, then maybe you picked a wrong organization to lead. :P

So true....so many Europeans, so little asprin.  ;)

Not my problem.

Mostly true...  But all my melodramatic pseudo vitriol aside I belieive you ultimatley want to provide a fun and rewarding experience, right?

Now, for tons of people having a logically consistent story driven operational doctrine that follows through a particular phase of the invasion and changes with hard demarcations to clue the player in is rewarding. You are 4.5/5 there.

Most of the available starting equipment is truly abhorrent but just good enough to motivate you to find better. Promotion I and Promotion II are kind of meh in personal equipment and there are a few unreasonable holes in terrestrial equipment, as well as weapon descriptions that obviously came straight off of /k/... I'm looking at you SA80.

It is still nice to feel you are progressing and you're accomplishing something. Which for the most part I feel is reasonably done. It's the fringes that irk the shit out of me because of the extreme care taken in some areas and slop in others... However, I do realize that mileage will vary for other people and this is a work in progress. Polished flavor text is something I know you are working on.

An example of one of these irks....

Cardboard cut out lady endangers the entire project for personal gratifacation.

A simple research interrogation nets me "I obviously decided to burn this guy alive because he's an evil sumbitch and you can't prove we did it neener neener". What purpose does that serve? Does it make me like or respect a character who is still a useless cardboard cut out to me? What are you as a storyteller trying to convey to me as the audience? What are you trying to make me feel? Satisfaction? Remorse? Pity? Respect? None of these come to me and instead feel you shoehorning me into harboring a monster. I'm afraid I can't relate to her one dimensional badgrrrrl rectal haberdashery. Maybe why so many interrogations are not as productive as they could be is because my interrogator is a reckless psychopathic monster.  :o This is your problem as the storyteller!

Another Irk...

Cult arms dealers netted me the ability to purchase one weapon. Granted it is overpowered, but arms in use around the world and likely a ton easier to obtain because they are already also being sold by the same arms dealer? Okay... I guess. By the time I was actually able to get at "high grade" military equipment via promotion II; it was outmoded by the one rifle I was able to obtain (A3k) by the cult arms dealer. Mixed bag I guess. I want your specific comment on this one please. Where are the Light Cannons, Grenade launchers etc? from the military attache? or cult connection?  Honestly, seeing some comments by other people I know that there are entire swaths of the tech tree I never saw or had a chance to see. There was a time I couldn't buy ammo for the two most common service rifles in the world with hundreds of millions of units in the world.... But could get an all I can eat buffet of some secret squirrel rifle in some weird caliber with unique magazines at my door in 24 hours? That's annoying.

Yet another Irk...

Weapon info and traits.... they are all over the place, such as.

.45ACP does as much damage as 7.62x39? 3 times the energy in 7.62 and heck of a lot more penetrating power by shape and diamater. Vests that can stop multiple hits of .45 ACP will not stop 7.62x39. I laugh at this one everytime I play.

5.8mm machine pistol. Why 5.8? the only 5.8 ammunition for this purpose is 3g and not 2g. 5.7 would be correct and fit the time period, but frankly why not an FN P90?

Slow reload with weapons that are really quick and easy to reload and fast reload on weapons that are difficult.

genuine head scratchers sometimes.


Oh and I'm super flush with cash.... Like I have 50+ million and basically nothing to spend it on. Suggestions?



Now the good...

Great idea, good execution, fun to play, difficult enough to keep my attention.

Have a great day!

-HH

edited for clarity???

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 10, 2016, 07:13:32 pm
That would be fine if they showed up to my base as corpses after a mission because I didn't have an "alien containment", but they don't. I would even accept the extra step of corpsifying them in the afteraction screen. I need their corpses, but can't make them corpses. Unless I can research a blood plasma prison or get more plasma units by actively sucking a monster dry.... morbid.

Yeah I know, I like this part. :)
Anyway, yes, your problem is a real one... Bummer. Again, can anyone else shed some light?

I don't have an Alien Containment as of yet, but a Detention Center and no, Monsters do not take up space in a Detention center, but can be sold.
I will update you when I build an Alien Containment.

Unfortunately it's the same thing, I only changed the name to reflect on the fact you also keep humans there (and monsters from the Twilight Zone). I wish it would be possible.

But the Arasaka 3000 is a top tier piece of gear that turns a mediocre marksman into a tyrant. Cool. There is no point in using anything else with experinced agents....yet. 4-8 dudes shooting dots out dice at 100 yards in the driving rain at night.

That's OK, I've already heard a couple of "no point using anything else" comments... About various different items of course. Dioxine hears it all the time, because Piratez is such a huge mod.

Alloy ammunition, Laser, Gauss, and Plasma weapons...all of them. I've also have samples of all of them. I also have had sundry alien technology for months and can't research it. UFO Navigations, UFO power sources, examination rooms, alloys, mind probes etc

Most of these you can't research yet because you don't meet the prerequisites. It's not about regulations, it's because your scientists need to understand more first.

With the next edition I expect the path to the Alien Engineering be a bit shorter.

So true....so many Europeans, so little asprin.  ;)
Mostly true...  But all my melodramatic pseudo vitriol aside I belieive you ultimatley want to provide a fun and rewarding experience, right?

Of course, so I'll explain better. I never received another complaint that the weapon access blockade is unrealistic. I've heard many complaints from a few people, but not this one. So maybe they were too polite, or maybe, I don't know, stupid, but I think it's a safe bet that it's at least not too bad.
Of course I listen to your opinions too. But I can't/don't want to just throw everything out of the window because of something I'm not even sure is bad.

Most of the available starting equipment is truly abhorrent but just good enough to motivate you to find better. Promotion I and Promotion II are kind of meh in personal equipment and there are a few unreasonable holes in terrestrial equipment, as well as weapon descriptions that obviously came straight off of /k/... I'm looking at you SA80.

Maybe, I've never been at /k/ lol :) Actually I can't remember reading real life weapon descriptions at all, so whatever you have seen there, it must've come from my own, black soul. :)

It is still nice to feel you are progressing and you're accomplishing something. Which for the most part I feel is reasonably done. It's the fringes that irk the shit out of me because of the extreme care taken in some areas and slop in others... However, I do realize that mileage will vary for other people and this is a work in progress. Polished flavor text is something I know you are working on.

Yes, thanks for the understanding. I really have way too little time for this... I'm doing what I can!

An example of one of these irks....

Cardboard cut out lady endangers the entire project for personal gratifacation.

A simple research interrogation nets me "I obviously decided to burn this guy alive because he's an evil sumbitch and you can't prove we did it neener neener". What purpose does that serve? Does it make me like or respect a character who is still a useless cardboard cut out to me? What are you as a storyteller trying to convey to me as the audience? What are you trying to make me feel? Satisfaction? Remorse? Pity? Respect? None of these come to me and instead feel you shoehorning me into harboring a monster. I'm afraid I can't relate to her one dimensional badgrrrrl rectal haberdashery. Maybe why so many interrogations are not as productive as they could be is because my interrogator is a reckless psychopathic monster.  :o This is your problem as the storyteller!

No, it was a stupid joke.
I'm not saying it was a good one. But to be honest, I plan to add way more. Otherwise it'll be way too grimdark far what it is: a pastiche of the 90's.

Cult arms dealers netted me the ability to purchase one weapon. Granted it is overpowered, but arms in use around the world and likely a ton easier to obtain because they are already also being sold by the same arms dealer? Okay... I guess. By the time I was actually able to get at "high grade" military equipment via promotion II; it was outmoded by the one rifle I was able to obtain (A3k) by the cult arms dealer. Mixed bag I guess. I want your specific comment on this one please. Where are the Light Cannons, Grenade launchers etc? from the military attache? or cult connection?  Honestly, seeing some comments by other people I know that there are entire swaths of the tech tree I never saw or had a chance to see. There was a time I couldn't buy ammo for the two most common service rifles in the world with hundreds of millions of units in the world.... But could get an all I can eat buffet of some secret squirrel rifle in some weird caliber with unique magazines at my door in 24 hours? That's annoying.

Yeah, it's a bit gamey. I've decided it's not so bad in this case... But not perfect either. It's just a concept, like Electro-Flares or Medikits. Not even trying to be realistic.

Weapon info and traits.... they are all over the place, such as.

.45ACP does as much damage as 7.62x39? 3 times the energy in 7.62 and heck of a lot more penetrating power by shape and diamater. Vests that can stop multiple hits of .45 ACP will not stop 7.62x39. I laugh at this one everytime I play.

I hate to dump the responsibility onto other people, but the truth is I've taken the stats from Dioxine. :) Because 1) he knows way more about weapons than me and 2) his choices were carefully balanced and tested. So... I have nothing else to say.

5.8mm machine pistol. Why 5.8? the only 5.8 ammunition for this purpose is 3g and not 2g. 5.7 would be correct and fit the time period, but frankly why not an FN P90?

Because Ryskeliini (who made this weapon) said so, and I saw no reason to argue.

Slow reload with weapons that are really quick and easy to reload and fast reload on weapons that are difficult.

genuine head scratchers sometimes.

Examples? I'm really willing to change it if necessary.

Oh and I'm super flush with cash.... Like I have 50+ million and basically nothing to spend it on. Suggestions?

There will be more in the next version. :P For now, just... spam scientists, I guess?

Now the good...

Great idea, good execution, fun to play, difficult enough to keep my attention.

Have a great day!

Thanks! You too!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 11, 2016, 01:31:46 am
OH!

something else I ran across.... Even though I hadn't researched any MIB technology only corpses which netted me seemingly nothing, I was suddenly able to manufacture reworked MIB armor.... for enemies I haven't even encountered yet. Weirdness.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 11, 2016, 10:49:54 am
OH!

something else I ran across.... Even though I hadn't researched any MIB technology only corpses which netted me seemingly nothing, I was suddenly able to manufacture reworked MIB armor.... for enemies I haven't even encountered yet. Weirdness.

Thanks. It's easy to fix, but the entire MiB stuff is still in tatters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 11, 2016, 05:14:41 pm
Sol,
I'm just going to make you a list and go through all the ufopedia entries and let you decide if any edits are good. Yes, I  am a pedantic fuckhead but I'm a passionate.

I'll respond at length to your previous post later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 12, 2016, 07:51:57 pm
That's OK, I've already heard a couple of "no point using anything else" comments... About various different items of course. Dioxine hears it all the time, because Piratez is such a huge mod.

I don't care about what Dioxine hears about Piratez. You are not Dioxine and this is not Piratez. This tech tree is a sprawling maze with no real way to be sure you are progressing or heading into a blind alley. I can say there is no point in using anything else because I've yet to run across anything that matches any category of accuracy or damage....for 18 months in game. I've got over 1000 kills with it, If I had access to something better I would use it.

Most of these you can't research yet because you don't meet the prerequisites. It's not about regulations, it's because your scientists need to understand more first.

I figured. Honesty, I was being an ass. However, even after I got alien engineering I was unable to research alien technology at all without rubber hosing another half dozen more aliens and even now I have literally only been able to crack one alien weapon...whose ufopedia entry is bugged. le sigh. This is epecially annoying because MIBs which have been stated as being human using human gear and if it can be made by man, it can be unmade by man...I am making a big assumption there though. :o

With the next edition I expect the path to the Alien Engineering be a bit shorter.

Cool... replication of alien tech is one thing,that is mastery. However, you should be able to research EVERY item immediately... I didn't say "be able to use it" but study it. And in some instances like alien alloys you can say " yeah it's really cool, but unworkable to us right now" and then later get the ability to use, manufacture, etc.

Of course, so I'll explain better. I never received another complaint that the weapon access blockade is unrealistic. I've heard many complaints from a few people, but not this one. So maybe they were too polite, or maybe, I don't know, stupid, but I think it's a safe bet that it's at least not too bad.
Of course I listen to your opinions too. But I can't/don't want to just throw everything out of the window because of something I'm not even sure is bad.

I want to be clear. I am not right, and you are not wrong.

I don't expect you to toss the idea, because everyone has limits. You are attempting to progress a story where an organization moves from 2poopy police to an elite fighting force. You should use every tool at your disposal, but expect I you not to hand wave "regulations" or "illegal". That is weak storytelling and does not have a foundation in reality...to a point. I expect you make the limits strong and be sensical and use them and break them to further the story and keep the difficulty right where it needs to be and use limits as both as a carrot and a stick to encourage your players to be uncomfortable, but not overwhelmed by the difficulty.

You have it broken up into huge bites. Why not make a few small bites, and a few big bites for a steadier progression with breakthroughs that are still rewarding?

Now, why does no one else complain?

Well, a few possibilities ...

1.Demonstrated thoughtless ignorance that is typical of most Europeans in regards to firearms and their availabilty; Couple that with stereotyping by Europeans of Americans and suddenly facts are irrelevant and opinions unconsidered based simply on the preconceived notions that some attempt to belittle others with... Including by the very person you qoute as being an authority on weapons.

So it does something like this....

"YOU ARE QUESTIONING ME!?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA! SILLY AMERICAN!"

No one likes that....But, seeing as I'm from planet USA none of that matters.  ;)

Ok, I'll get off my cross.... :D

2. Others are more polite than I am.

3. I am willing to ask questions, look stupid, or otherwise annoy the shit out of ANYONE in search of what I like.

4. They can't or won't analyze their situation and resources.

5. They can't use logic, or at least won't out loud.

6. I'm a pedantic fuckwit.

An example...

An oversight of no Kevlar vests is silly. Joke flavor text, whatever you try to use to justify it... It is ridiculous. There were very few regulations on purchasing body armor in  very few countries at the time period of this mod (and today). If cops in the third world can get a vest a UN taskforce should too. It doesn't have to be a good vest, just something that gives a reasonable chance of surviving being shot with a pistol. You can always add a few steps to the armor tree.

Not having AK 47s initially is reasonable because X-Com is an investigational unit, right?  So pistols, shotguns, smoke grenades, tasers are all legit.... like regular police in most of the world. But, research into the most common rifles, grenades exsplosives etc should be available piecemeal and as a promotion chunk. So we can simulate our dudes fighting to get decent gear as an underfunded and misunderstood bastard child locked under the stairs to allow the players to scale as needed to defeat the threats placed in front of them.

It becomes obvious that the cultists are up to no good and heavily armed and so getting comparable gear like AKs,MP5s M16s and plate carriers would be a priority.Bubbas hunting rifle should not be considered a primo piece of equipment to an international interdiction unit taking on Rothschild/ Rockafeller backed drug dealing artistocrat super terrorists.

When hyper advanced weaponry and tanks are coming on to the field to directly hinder you... all the stops must go. RPGs, LMGs, Demo packs. Single shot rocket launchers etc.

Maybe, I've never been at /k/ lol :) Actually I can't remember reading real life weapon descriptions at all, so whatever you have seen there, it must've come from my own, black soul. :)

No... it must be the pure psychic stink of the place exuding into reality. I have to buy a flamethrower now....

No, it was a stupid joke.
I'm not saying it was a good one. But to be honest, I plan to add way more. Otherwise it'll be way too grimdark far what it is: a pastiche of the 90's.

My bad.

Yeah, it's a bit gamey. I've decided it's not so bad in this case... But not perfect either. It's just a concept, like Electro-Flares or Medikits. Not even trying to be realistic.

Well... it is a game. However, maybe more arms dealers?Maybe more topics that feel like we are slowly eking out an advantage against the cultists until the paradigm shift of the MIB and the first wave aliens.

I hate to dump the responsibility onto other people, but the truth is I've taken the stats from Dioxine. :) Because 1) he knows way more about weapons than me and 2) his choices were carefully balanced and tested. So... I have nothing else to say.

Your mod, your responsibility. :)
Accurate refection of relative weapon power is important, but not penultimate.... that's all I'm saying. It doesn't have to be a super realistic in correllation as in 3x more powerful etc. This is isn't Piratez.


Examples? I'm really willing to change it if necessary.

I'll make you a list... I didn't want to have to deal with how the sausage was made, but no help for that now. ;D

There will be more in the next version. :P For now, just... spam scientists, I guess?

Cool
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 13, 2016, 01:58:28 pm
Why don't you just make a mod to my mod? It'll be way easier to test and compare.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 13, 2016, 07:40:07 pm
indeed...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 15, 2016, 01:01:54 pm
UFO and TFTD ( air and underwater combat) in one mod?! Hey that's heaven! More stuff will be placed (weapons, items, craft, ecc) in next versions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 15, 2016, 05:11:08 pm
UFO and TFTD ( air and underwater combat) in one mod?! Hey that's heaven! More stuff will be placed (weapons, items, craft, ecc) in next versions?

You bet!

Here's a much-needed update: https://www.mediafire.com/download/a1bh2ahs0khwnvl/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.2.4.zip

Changelog:
- Fixed a problem with EXALT Brainer crashing the game.
- Fixed a problem with EXALT HQ Ufopaedia entry crashing the game.
- Fixed a critical bug with the Corridor facility crashing the game.
- Fixed Skorpion SMG Ufopaedia page crashing the game (see a pattern here?).
- Shotguns rebalance.
- Some melee weapons rebalance.
- Gauss and Railguns rebalance. Synthsuit, Power Suit and Flying Suit rebalance.
- Better Hybrid face, by Civilian.
- Added Alien Subrifle, a plasma SMG.
- Changed invisibility for the Black Lotus Assassin, now he is visible from a close distance.

Mostly fixes, so no big content addition yet. But many of these errors were fatal, so that's good. Also I bet you'll prefer the new stealth system for assassins...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on August 15, 2016, 05:33:21 pm
Also I bet you'll prefer the new stealth system for assassins...

No more invincible ninjas? :) or is that "Black Lotus Assassin" someone different?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 15, 2016, 06:02:16 pm
No more invincible ninjas? :) or is that "Black Lotus Assassin" someone different?

No, it's the same one.
I mean he's still mostly invisible, but can be seen from all angles if you are very close. No more diagonal sight nonsense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 15, 2016, 07:51:41 pm
Hey just gived a brief try to the 0.2.4 and the mod is amazing!!! But still kinda buggy as alphas are
Some suggestions:

1) I've seen we got a beretta92fs! How about to use also the m12? The current uzi seems actually more an ingram mac-10, i made a model for it; as well as the aforementioned m12, you can find them here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3934.msg50864.html#msg50864) May also use the one featured in the Xeno Operations mid by Xops, very very well made :)

2) use the ak47 and the rcf carabine, and the heavy shtgun featured in x-piraez (the second as m-16, the third as mossberg shotgun?)

3) as soon i entered a cult activit site, game crashed.  it's an .exe crashed, the same already reported in x-piratez 0.99A1  (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4058.msg68685.html#msg68685)so it's not stricltly mod-depending. save, dump and file save attached.

4) the APC alike startin vehicle has too few fuel capacity!! How abut to increase a bit?

5) the car in the hangar map screen need to be a bit bigger and centered

6) some stuff form final mod pack (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2027.0.html) is to be expected?

7) very basic weapons such uzi should not be researched. Instead may be replaced by a caws shotgun, and somo less common, which player may have acces after completed the non conventional weapons topic

edit: addictions  :o
Edit: sry the save file attached has a wrong name, it' the 0.2.4 instead
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 15, 2016, 07:55:27 pm
...and some screenies bug related  :'(

a couple of more hints:
* standard outfit should not feature a backpack. May have a shoulder holster, along the "belted" one?
* the actual colt .45 seems more a desert eagle (https://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/7/7a/DesertEagle44Magnum.jpg/390px-DesertEagle44Magnum.jpg), why not modify it, for instnce, shrten the barrel or a more overall slim shape.

Edit: typos
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 15, 2016, 08:24:38 pm
1) I've seen we got a beretta92fs! How aoubt to use also the m12? as for uzi i made a model, as well as the aforementioned m12, you can find them here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3934.msg50864.html#msg50864)

2) use the ak47 and the rcf carabine, and the heavy shtgun featured in x-piraez (the second as m-16, the third as mossberg shotgun?)

More guns are being added gradually, when possible and if they make sense.

3) as soon i entered a cult activit site, game crashed.  it's an .exe crashed, the same already reported in x-piratez 0.99A1  (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4058.msg68685.html#msg68685)so it's not stricltly mod-depending. save, dump and file save attached.

Sorry, but I can't reproduce it. I had a cult activity site, went there, it loaded.
How about disabling all other mods? Aliens_Pick_Up_Weapons is already included and Limit_Craft_Item_Capacities won't do much with new designs. They may cause conflicts.

4) the APC alike startin vehicle has too few fuel capacity!! How abut to increase a bit?

And make it the default vehicle? Nope! The Mudranger is for special purposes only, unless you are smart enough to use it anyway.

5) the car in the hangar map screen need to be a bit bigger and centered

It's a Ford, not a Mud Monster. :P
And I could centre it, but it's better like it is now, trust me.

6) some stuff form final mod pack (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2027.0.html) is to be expected?

ALL OF IT is to be expected, and way more.

edit: addictions  :o

Eh? You addicted already? :)

...and some screenies bug related  :'(

Right, a missing string. Thanks.

* standard outft should not feature a backpack. Ma have a shoulder holster alond the "below" one

It will be done at some point.

* the colt .45 actually seems more a desert eagle (https://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/7/7a/DesertEagle44Magnum.jpg/390px-DesertEagle44Magnum.jpg), why not modify it, for instnce, shrten the barrel or a more overall slim shape

Maybe at some point.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 15, 2016, 08:31:57 pm
No did not meant to make the Mudranger as default vehicle, but seems it's not supposed an early vehicle, aftet some figuring out..;)

As for the ford...hell..how about to teplace it with a van, with 4 crew capacity? Like in those movies involving the FBI 8) ;D. Please i really wish it would not have to be researched..hey made some edit in the previous posts sry.

Edit: and i also like the new battlescape music!!! A new one for the geoscape is planned i guess if not, maybe ask gifty for the one he realizrd for TFTD (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3879.msg55399.html#msg55399) to be "embedded?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: The Think Tank on August 15, 2016, 09:57:11 pm
The Colt. 45 actually does look closer to a M1911 than to a Desert Eagle, plus it is such a classy weapon. That's just my thought. Mod is going great though! Super excited to see more content (and hopefully some more urban maps!)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 16, 2016, 12:43:47 am

It's not really ready yet. Actually, I'd say it's more of a demo than a full version. I have maybe 20% of things done, hence the 0.2 number. Still, it's playable and offers a lot of new content already.

I think about it in terms of "arcs", like in TV series: what you see is (grossly undertested) Season 1, where you are placed in the new setting and some shit is going down immediately. Further seasons will be released when they're ready

So as of now 0.2.4 i guess the mod is not beatable or am i wrong? Plus, i reallt wish there will be full linux compatibility, as fir the casecsentivitiness thing, and of course a precompiled binary executable...

..also i've read here and thrre the whole thread and i like the conpiracy/illuminati setting! One last request: please may be the current magnum sprite - which is wuite blue actually - with  the one made by yizroud (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.105.html)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 16, 2016, 12:45:23 am
So as of now 0.2.4 i guess the mod is not beatable or am i wrong?

It is beatable, just not very rich yet. Plus advancing is probably gonna be harder than later.

One last request: please may be the current magnum sprite - which is wuite blue actually - with  the one made by yizroud (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.105.html)?

I don't know... Yrizoud's magnum is great, but a bit too much like other pistols...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 16, 2016, 10:50:18 am
Aain in the 0.2.4, during a cultis activist raid missionafter i ended my turn gae hanged displaying th "Hidden movement" screen and i had only to exit. Saved game attached. openxcom log file says, in the very last lines:

Code: [Select]
[16-08-2016 09:41:02] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_6M0.SPK
[16-08-2016 09:41:02] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_15M0.SPK
[16-08-2016 09:41:03] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_16M0.SPK
[16-08-2016 09:41:03] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_20M0.SPK

1) some agentes missing their flags when displayed in the

2) agents stat screen and the one regarding the memorial after a battle have paledde messed

3) xcom should not be aware of the "EXALT sect"? I think before they are investigaated (researched) should be labbeled as "fanatic cultist"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 16, 2016, 11:01:03 am
Aain in the 0.2.4, during a cultis activist raid missionafter i ended my turn gae hanged displaying th "Hidden movement" screen and i had only to exit. Saved game attached. openxcom log file says, in the very last lines:

Code: [Select]
[16-08-2016 09:41:02] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_6M0.SPK
[16-08-2016 09:41:02] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_15M0.SPK
[16-08-2016 09:41:03] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_16M0.SPK
[16-08-2016 09:41:03] [INFO] requested file not found: UFOGRAPH/MAN_20M0.SPK

OK, I'll check when I get home.

1) some agentes missing their flags when displayed in the

I know, and it's baffling me... I need to consult Meridian.

2) agents stat screen and the one regarding the memorial after a battle have paledde messed

Hmm... I can't remember this happening, but I'll keep an eye on it.

3) xcom should not be aware of the "EXALT sect"? I think before they are investigaated (researched) should be labbeled as "fanatic cultist"

And how do I do this? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on August 16, 2016, 05:17:00 pm
Hey!

First, I'd like to thank Solarius for all the effort he's put into this mod (and maintaining the FMP). I don't think I can go back to regular X-Com after experiencing his work.

Now, I've had several weeks of fun playing and modifying (way too much modifying, in fact) the X-Com Files to suit my own tastes, and I think I'm nearing a point of repletion where I'm going to drop the game, at least for a while. Happens to most games I play, unfortunately, but I usually come back to the good ones in a couple of years.

But I've done quite a bit of ground work that may be of interest to Solarius and possibly other modders, so I'm asking whether there's any interest in me sharing my RAW changes (as in, I don't have the time or inclination to support or extensively document anything) to X-Com Files? If you know how to use file comparison software, most of my changes can be easily found and incorporated (if they make sense and you like them, that is).

So you don't buy a pig in a poke (or cat in a sack in the case of Solarius, I think), I'll give you a partial list of changes:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 16, 2016, 05:31:20 pm
And how do I do this? :)

Don't know, they should appear in the research screen as "cultist activist" (same as you hover the mouse over their stunned body in battlescape).

Once researched they tell you about their sect, hey thete may be ave different sprites for different organizations don't know if more than one is planned.. :o ;D

I may try this mod again later, when it hits 0.3, hopefully having time. Bye for now!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 16, 2016, 05:49:07 pm
Hello Juku, thanks for the input!

Yes, I am mostly aware how, well, alpha the mod is. I think I'm at least a year away from actually beginning to smoothing things up. Therefore all feedback is critical.

Let me address each point separately.

all HWPs have two weapons, a cannon or rocket launcher and corresponding automatic weapon,

Yes, or possibly something else, like a motion scanner. I haven't tackled it much yet.

there's a line of alloy HWPs to go with Personal Armor,

Maybe. The problem is that it would effectively double the amount of HWPs in the game, making all lists even more exceedingly long. I don't really know what to do.

different armors and HWPs have different icons in the craft equip screen a la Piratez,

Will certainly happen at some point.

an overhaul of faction and alien equipment (everyone has somewhat standardized loadouts) + some YML "copy-paste" to avoid mind-numbing repetitions,

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm trying to assign (mostly) separate armories to various factions already.

several corrections and additions in the UFOPedia articles,

Yeah, well... I'm trying :)

a couple of changes to psionics: there's now a dedicated psionic armor, an upgraded X-Com "flame glove" and three tiers of Psi-Amps,

I'm not really crazy about psi armours at the moment, because how would they help? The theory is pretty vague. There is a link between psionics and technology, as proven by the existence of the Psi-Amp, but I'd need a good theoretical base first.
Nevertheless, I'm certainly up for discussion.

somewhat more fleshed out weapon families, including a second tier of most explosives (Fusion land mine, extra-powerful smoke grenades etc), a full family of dart weapons, various types of grenade launchers (and a mortar) instead of the HC and AC, and so on,

Possibly. It's a matter of only adding weapons that are at least a little different, otherwise it's a endless gun porn hell (if there is something like a porn hell).
Some suggestions would be appreciated.

a biowarfare program piggybacked on the dart weapons, including a chemical warhead for most explosive-style weapons (rockets, grenade launchers, hand grenades),

Would be nice, but I'm postponing such ideas for now because 1) I'm doing other stuff, 2) I'm hoping for some engine improvements to better reflect such weapons.

several tiers of agents, starting with the usual types and going through SF specialists with higher minimum stats and two or three slightly raised maximums to Psi-soldiers (same, but focus on the two psi-stats),

But this is already happening, your agent starts as a nobody and advances to an almost godlike status. :)
I understand you would like tiers of agents to recruit, but I'm not sure why.

severely limited funding (you start with 1M and grow from there),

I'm hoping to balance it better.

more nations and cities (mostly from the Improved Nations mod),

It's already somewhat improved. Drawing borders is a bitch though, and such mods merge poorly.

a number of new facilities, mostly 2x2 (a global radar, 250-engineer workshop, etc) and stolen/modified from XOps,

Possibly, with time.

Alien Containment is delayed after Alien Biology and terrestrial enemies take up storage space instead of containment cells (there's a bug/feature that makes interrogations require 1 space in the Alien Containment, no matter whether the critter itself does, so it's not perfect),

If the code allows, sure. Ideally I'd like three types of "prison": for aliens, for humans and for animal-like creatures.

the Gym is restyled as a psionic training facility (and thus delayed to the later stages of the game), since daily stat growths are quite ... astronomical,

Maybe I'll make it a bit weaker. Not an easy decision.

fully recolored corpses for the recolored aliens (Snakemen in particular),

When I got to the smoothing phase I mentioned. :)

psionics (including higher-tier Psi-Amps, psi-armor, psionic 'gym' and the like) is tiered behind five prerequisites, unlocked by capturing and interrogating successive tiers of psionic aliens (Sectoid -> Cerebral -> Ethereal -> high-ranking Ethereals -> Ethereal Order),

There are also other psionic beings in the mod, so I wouldn't just go there yet. But yes, I plan to have several distinct branches of psionics, from different sources and with various effects. (More or less the Piratez way.)

doubled research times,

Maybe for later techs.

the appearance of alien races is spread over a two-year period, with usually three months allocated to a new arrival, but that's far from ironclad, and works well enough due to the increased research times, all the new terrestrial tech to unlock and lowered council funding,

Possibly. It depends on how it's balanced against other elements of the game. For now, I just think it's too early, since most factions and arcs aren't in the game yet.

MiB and hybrids use the same 'terror' mission model as the cultists, instead of the fake UFOs they used to travel in,

Yes, it's planned. The current implementation is from a long ago when it wasn't possible.

a balance pass at aircraft, featuring an implementation of the embryonic non-weapon equipment in Solarius's files (so you can put an improved radar suite on the Skywarden or reinforce the airframe of the Raven even further with alloys) and more,

Yeah, I have a number of craft mods half-coded in already.

all Hybrid installations (not convoys), cult bases and HQ's and every EXALT mission is now an infiltration mission; you haven't experienced true pain unless you've gone through a dozen ninjas using only leather attire, handguns and SMGs;

I think it's going too far, most players wouldn't want that. But I promise there will be more infilration missions, mostly related to The Syndicate (an evil corporation to be introduced when I'm done with the Cyberweb).

a solution to the 'Major League Baseball pitchers' problem: everyone has severely limited strength (soldiers top out at 30+x, with x depending on the blessings of the RNG), but all armors grant you up to 50 'free' weight points, so grenade ranges are much more realistic now,

That's a bit hackish and would be confusing for many players. I'd rather tweak the grenades themselves.

a slight change to inventory: backpack is 3x4, and belt is 2x2 + 1 + 1x2, but you can no longer use shoulders or left leg for 2x1 items (right leg still works),

It will depend on armour worn.

and more, including quite probably a number of bugs I haven't caught, since I've only made it to July 1999 so far.
[/quote]

Many thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on August 16, 2016, 05:58:59 pm
...I'm asking whether there's any interest in me sharing my RAW changes (as in, I don't have the time or inclination to support or extensively document anything) to X-Com Files?

I think, Juku121, that many of the things you have mentioned are interesting and useful.  Please post a .zip of your modded version for others to examine. :)  Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on August 17, 2016, 10:16:26 am
I know, and it's baffling me... I need to consult Meridian.

You have 66 nationalities instead of 33 :)

Delete or comment out these lines in "soldiers_XCOMFILES.rul"

Code: [Select]
    soldierNames:
      - SoldierName/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 10:58:55 am
You have 66 nationalities instead of 33 :)

Delete or comment out these lines in "soldiers_XCOMFILES.rul"

Code: [Select]
    soldierNames:
      - SoldierName/

Lol, thanks :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on August 17, 2016, 11:09:50 am
Hmm... I can't remember this happening, but I'll keep an eye on it.

The "Lost in Service" GUI is using the same interface rules as Soldier Memorial.

You have overridden it in "interfaces_XCOMFILES.rul", but didn't specify the "color2" on "list".

Code: [Select]
  - type: soldierMemorial
    music: GMLOSE
    palette: PAL_BASESCAPE
    elements:
      - id: palette
        color: 7     # violet
      - id: window
        color: 218   # blue
      - id: text
        color: 218   # blue
        color2: 208  # white
      - id: list
        color: 246   # purple
        color2: 218  # blue  <--------------- add this and it will work
        border: 218  # blue
      - id: button
        color: 218   # blue
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 11:12:46 am
Thanks.

To be honest, I never noticed. Maybe I should be losing more men. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on August 17, 2016, 11:16:36 am
As for the "Diary" screen, I think niculinux just didn't upgrade correctly... he's missing translations as well and I think he's missing interface rules too...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 11:30:44 am
As for the "Diary" screen, I think niculinux just didn't upgrade correctly... he's missing translations as well and I think he's missing interface rules too...

For technical sake, the 0.2.4 was my very first try, never downliad and used the mod before :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on August 17, 2016, 11:37:56 am
For technical sake, the 0.2.4 was my very first try, never downliad and used the mod before :)

OK, let me correct my statement, just need to change one word:

As for the "Diary" screen, I think niculinux just didn't install correctly... he's missing translations as well and I think he's missing interface rules too...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 11:41:53 am
OK, let me correct my statement, just need to change one word:

As for the "Diary" screen, I think niculinux just didn't install correctly... he's missing translations as well and I think he's missing interface rules too...

Burn! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 11:45:07 am
I never use translations, always go for the english-US. Peraphs may be some main component in the mod is missing/bugged? Just downloaded and extract in a folder on a win 10 desktop, aside n. 1 (see previous post) no other messages gotten :)

#Solarius: in a cultist activity site, i shot one guy 6-7 times from a not so medium distance with a glock 18 and he was still up  :o maybe it's a normal behavior?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on August 17, 2016, 11:54:57 am
Wow, I never thought I will meet a person in my life to whom I will not be able to explain the simpliest of things.

You are the first.
I think I just gave up and will not try to reply to your comments anymore.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 11:58:56 am
No sorry Meridian, did not want to play the troll game, it's my real inexperience with PC and programming stuff. Thanks for the replies anyways, fell free to do whatever you want :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 12:39:16 pm
#Solarius: in a cultist activity site, i shot one guy 6-7 times from a not so medium distance with a glock 18 and he was still up  :o maybe it's a normal behavior?

Depends. Which cultist? EXALT people wear bulletproof vests, for example.

No sorry Meridian, did not want to play the troll game, it's my real inexperience with PC and programming stuff.

Yea, because we're all expert programmers here... ::)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 01:05:19 pm
Depends. Which cultist? EXALT people wear bulletproof vests, for example.

Bald guys, in jeans and white unshirts, holdin billhooks and shotguns, with an angry smily face  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 01:18:22 pm
Bald guys, in jeans and white unshirts, holdin billhooks and shotguns, with an angry smily face  :o

AFAIR the only bald ones are Black Lotus mooks, but they wear "karate clothes"... Unless I'm forgetting something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 01:26:49 pm
AFAIR the only bald ones are Black Lotus mooks, but they wear "karate clothes"... Unless I'm forgetting something.

That' s what i remember, hope i'm not 100% wrong. I shold have post a screenshot :(  Maybe if i can, i will :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 01:29:10 pm
in jeans and white unshirts

That' s what i remember

SO WHICH ONE IS IT, THE KARATE CLOTHES OR THE JEANS?!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 01:32:47 pm
No jeans! i forgot! Sry again!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 01:36:13 pm
No jeans! i forgot! Sry again!!

Then it was probably an EXALT. (Who aren't bald by the way.)
They wear kevlar, but are otherwise squishy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 03:00:30 pm
Eh another mistake from me...i mean the guys wearing blue jeans!. I really should stop trying more than 2 mods at the same time!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 17, 2016, 03:47:53 pm
This is like watching two jocks in skeleton costumes chase Ralph Macchio around a gym.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on August 17, 2016, 11:37:59 pm
This is like watching two jocks in skeleton costumes chase Ralph Macchio around a gym.

The line that won the internet!!

Hey Solarous, hope in the next version of Tentaculant Soups' Lasers reskin mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2533.msg26087.html#msg26087) very underrated but original mod :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2016, 11:41:15 pm
Hey Solarous, hope in the next version of Tentaculant Soups' Lasers reskin mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2533.msg26087.html#msg26087) very underrated but original mod :)

That laser was in the FMP for at least a year.

(https://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/10500000/Master-Shifu-master-shifu-10552776-1080-540.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 18, 2016, 02:13:41 am
I lol'd.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on August 18, 2016, 01:00:36 pm
All right, I lied. I took some time and put together a changelog of sorts after all.

I've separated my changes into two archives:

Full (https://www.mediafire.com/download/d86k465f5sxy8dy/XComFiles_Juku121_full.7z)

(a dump of my X-Com Files mod directory) and

Lite (https://www.mediafire.com/download/5ym329nbo8p7lan/XComFiles_Juku121_lite.7z)

(a pruned version which should contain only the changed files; eats less space and gives a better overview of what's changed).

The documentation is contained in both archives and is also attached below.

I'm not interested in either getting or giving credit, so consider this a 'modder's resource' that borrows heavily from a number of people's work. I'm releasing it for free, no strings or requirements attached, but if anyone wants to use it in a public mod, they should credit people I've stolen from (most of whom should already be on the FMP credit list).

Hope my ideas serve as inspiration to somebody and good luck to Solarius with the monumental task he's taken on himself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 19, 2016, 04:03:33 am
[18-08-2016 17:30:22]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 17:35:39]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 17:35:58]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 17:46:14]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 17:51:52]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 17:55:24]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 17:59:34]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 18:00:21]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 18:01:53]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 18:06:22]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 18:29:41]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 19:54:40]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 19:58:52]   [ERROR]   Map Script not found
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: code 0xc0000005
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   0x769c3378 BaseThreadInitThunk (SymGetLineFromAddr64 failed: 487)
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   0x770a989f RtlInitializeExceptionChain (SymGetLineFromAddr64 failed: 487)
[18-08-2016 19:59:47]   [FATAL]   0x770a989f RtlInitializeExceptionChain (SymGetLineFromAddr64 failed: 487)
[18-08-2016 19:59:48]   [FATAL]   Crash dump generated at C:\Users\Derp\Desktop\Open Xfiles\user\18-08-2016_19-59-47.dmp
[18-08-2016 19:59:56]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: code 0xc0000005
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 19, 2016, 10:34:48 am
Thanks.

OK, what kind of mission was it? What terrain?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 19, 2016, 03:31:55 pm
Cult mission... I'll post my auto save from just before it blows up.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 20, 2016, 02:13:11 am
The clip price of glock is Too high. The pistol 800 and the clip 400. This is normal when the Rest the clip price is  over 10% of the gun???

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 20, 2016, 02:18:48 pm
The clip price of glock is Too high. The pistol 800 and the clip 400. This is normal when the Rest the clip price is  over 10% of the gun???

Good point, fixed.

Also, I present you the Sick Bay.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 20, 2016, 05:59:58 pm
Ohhhh nice.....

In the ufopedia i dont see the ban

The weapon colt 45 is more similar to desert eagle may be rename.



Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 20, 2016, 06:43:31 pm
In the ufopedia i dont see the ban

Can't see what?

The weapon colt 45 is more similar to desert eagle may be rename.

There's already an Eagle too...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 20, 2016, 07:06:24 pm
In the ufopaedia in the puclic transport i see that the car can carry 2 men. But no mention to the van

Another quest. I see a number Green in some weapon s. Whats mean?

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 20, 2016, 07:48:36 pm
How many hands it takes to use that weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 20, 2016, 07:51:41 pm
But i can equip two wepons and fire normally. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/1631ac73d2daeac269d964e756c826c8.jpg)

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 20, 2016, 08:36:55 pm
Yes,

in game
There are weapons that you can use with one hand, but get full accuracy with two and others that you MUST (pretty much) use two hands to use. Pump action shotgun vs. crossbow.

I know. In reality running a pump action shotgun one handed is pretty outlandish.  You CAN do it as demonstrated by movies, the realities of Miami Dade shootout in the 90s and now currrent various state police and FBI training. I've personally shot skeet (sporting clays) with a gentleman who had suffered a stroke and only had use of one hand. All of the techniques I have seen demonstrated look goofy as fuck. Lucky for us it is a game :)


The 1911 doesn't look terrible, but it isn't perfect either. Honestly it looks more like the Hi-power because of the contours of the slide are swept too close to the barrel and the hammer and slide area seem to split the difference between these designs. The transistion from dovetail to grip is too sharp for for 1911, but there are chunky hints at a grip safety of the 1911. I give it a B+ simply because some things I know could be better executed, but it is pixel art.... so it is a fucking Rembrandt :)


Have a good one!!!

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 20, 2016, 09:40:23 pm
Thx......

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 24, 2016, 05:00:58 pm
A question. In this mod is important to creaste a link of bases to cover all territory similar in fmp or the radars are useless than fmp. Thx

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 24, 2016, 09:50:19 pm
A question. In this mod is important to creaste a link of bases to cover all territory similar in fmp or the radars are useless than fmp. Thx

Not really, at least not in early game. You have no means of shooting down UFOs anyway, and you are notified of all other events.
Once you have proper fighters and such, you will want to have good radars, like in any other X-Com game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 25, 2016, 05:11:59 am
Obviously there has been some tweaking on the chupacabras.   :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 25, 2016, 09:51:49 am
Obviously there has been some tweaking on the chupacabras.   :o

Nope. I never touched them after they were implemented.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 25, 2016, 03:03:26 pm
Never got them as a monster attack before now twice in two months RNG ftw. Hell missions. They are fast, sneaky and numerous and if you are lucky they don't eat the all the civvies in the first turn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 25, 2016, 04:45:06 pm
Never got them as a monster attack before now twice in two months RNG ftw. Hell missions. They are fast, sneaky and numerous and if you are lucky they don't eat the all the civvies in the first turn.

Yeah, I was worried they were too hardcore, but ultimately decided that not everything has to be similarly dangerous. A game with no variation would be dull. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on August 28, 2016, 01:02:23 am
I like these "Oh sh*t.." moments, but a lot depend of terrain type and spawn. My first chupacabra encounter was on hills/forest terrain with few of them spawn near me. It was like in alien movies but i didn't make it. In next encounter i shoot them from a far on a flat terrain and it was easy.

We can talk about balancing when all elements and items will be in the mod but i really don't like beggining of the game right now.

1) Is it posible to make easier missions before logistics research? It's 15 days and i do nothing until then becouse it's imposible to do anything with only 2 men. Encouters should have 4-5 enemys max.
2) Entire car should work as a cover, right now it's only 1/3. When crouch only rear part of car protects from bullets.
3) dog - it's available from the beginning but we can't use him with car or van, if it imposible to do it, maybe just remove it ? Me and my trusty dog, thats would be a nice team.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on August 28, 2016, 01:06:38 am
My first mission a culty mission with 8 men 2 with automátic rifle. Me two men 2 pistols and 6 magazines. Failed them. Lol... 

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 28, 2016, 02:12:58 am
the chupacabra are great. They feel like a real threat especially in urban environments. If we can get auto shot reaction fire and the updated shotguns then the dynamic will change considerably and turn a hell mission into merely very very unpleasant. :P  so I ca


Strategy with two men is to be prepared to leave asap. E flares to set up a kill zone at night and clear a piece of cover must happen first turn. Day time is much the same of using the car for cover. Check six EVERY TURN I mean EVERY turn.

You are not punished for retreating so if you have to leave, leave. if you can snatch a body or unconscious dude, do it. If you see a big monster, leave unless you have heavy weapons like the nitro rifle and cover.

keep stims and medical gel spray handy if you have them.

oh and take your strongest men. Two agent teams are WAY more physical in that you need to be strong enough to grab stuff and carry equipment.

I've cleared cult outposts with two men... Jesus it sucked but it is doable. the car has a really roomy trunk btw.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 28, 2016, 03:23:35 am
1) Is it posible to make easier missions before logistics research? It's 15 days and i do nothing until then becouse it's imposible to do anything with only 2 men. Encouters should have 4-5 enemys max.

I'll think about it. Yes, some balance is still in order. But as HelmetHair said, two people are not exactly useless... Well, not every time anyway.

2) Entire car should work as a cover, right now it's only 1/3. When crouch only rear part of car protects from bullets.

All of its segments act as cover, and a pretty even one... So I'm not sure what you mean. But I reviewed the MCD and made the car a bit bigger, voxel-wise; hopefully it helps. It was indeed a bit strange...

3) dog - it's available from the beginning but we can't use him with car or van, if it imposible to do it, maybe just remove it ? Me and my trusty dog, thats would be a nice team.

I'm in the process of dealing with this problem. Maybe the next update, maybe the one after. (The idea is to make dogs into a type of soldier, not HWP, with some limitations like not being able to drive.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 28, 2016, 07:21:33 am
what if your soldiers all die and the dog is left.

Mission failed?

I haven't paid attention do items recovered as loot show up instantly at your base? if so then you could always hand wave and say a recovery team is involved.... you could even research  better recovery team times as part of the logistics research tree.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 28, 2016, 01:13:40 pm
what if your soldiers all die and the dog is left.

Mission failed?

I'm not sure how exactly it works, yet.

I haven't paid attention do items recovered as loot show up instantly at your base? if so then you could always hand wave and say a recovery team is involved.... you could even research  better recovery team times as part of the logistics research tree.

Yes, the game mechanics is that the loot appears in your base instantly, before the craft returns. We'll see how it works.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on August 28, 2016, 11:53:25 pm
I'll think about it. Yes, some balance is still in order. But as HelmetHair said, two people are not exactly useless... Well, not every time anyway.

Everyone have different opinion on the same thing. You are a creator and do what your vision tell you to do. For me it's wrong fighting hordes from the begining. In X-Com we know that we fighting with superior alien life form so it's ok, but in X-Files we trying to find out what's going on.

All of its segments act as cover, and a pretty even one... So I'm not sure what you mean. But I reviewed the MCD and made the car a bit bigger, voxel-wise; hopefully it helps. It was indeed a bit strange...

Dont'k know enything about OpenXcom moding and where different entries are so i don't look for errors in code just write how things work in game. Look at the screen. All the soldiers crouched.

1    can hit    a    can hit    1
2    can hit    b    can hit    2
3    No line of fire    c    can hit    3
4    No line of fire    d    can hit    4
5    can hit    e    can hit    5
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 29, 2016, 01:05:07 am
Yeah, I think that's what I fixed. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Starving Poet on August 29, 2016, 03:43:39 am
what if your soldiers all die and the dog is left.


(https://41dcdfcd4dea0e5aba20-931851ca4d0d7cdafe33022cf8264a37.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/11228084_death-road-to-canada-preview---does-it_1eb987d2_m.jpg?bg=7C756C)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on August 29, 2016, 11:27:19 am
Quick debug-option-test: The elerium mace bigob gif uses the wrong kind of transparency, needs an update. There are a lot of missing STRs, but ok it's an alpha...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 29, 2016, 12:20:50 pm
Quick debug-option-test: The elerium mace bigob gif uses the wrong kind of transparency, needs an update. There are a lot of missing STRs, but ok it's an alpha...

Good catch with the Elerium Mace.
As for the strings, yeah, they're gradually being added.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on August 29, 2016, 03:37:47 pm
Just wanted to clarify for the tutorial video I'm working on:

HOW DO I INSTALL THIS MOD?
- Unpack the mod. It will create a complete OpenXcom_XFiles folder with all the files that you need; it will contain the correct nightly version and Yankes' and Meridian's custom .exe named "OpenXcomExPlus.exe".
- Copy files from your original "UFO: Enemy Unknown"/"X-Com: UFO Defense" folder to the "OpenXcom_XFiles/UFO" folder.
- Use OpenXcomExPlus.exe to run the game.
- Enable the mod from the mod selection menu.

I'm also including applying the Universal Patch after I copy the original files.  If you don't want this step in the video, let me know. :)
Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on August 29, 2016, 05:53:18 pm
Hmm this reminds me, wouldn't it be better if the mod included a stripped config file, which only :
- enables the mod
- sets any option which is preferred for XComfiles (ie. language, range-based accuracy)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on August 30, 2016, 11:04:03 am
Is this bug or feature, that sniper rifle does less damage, than hunting rifle? Also is it possible to place soldiers in the beginning of battle back to back? I mean back to car/van and face to danger.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 30, 2016, 12:53:25 pm
Hmm this reminds me, wouldn't it be better if the mod included a stripped config file, which only :
- enables the mod
- sets any option which is preferred for XComfiles (ie. language, range-based accuracy)

Is it possible to distribute a partial config? If yes, it sounds good.

Is this bug or feature, that sniper rifle does less damage, than hunting rifle?

How? Hunting Rifle does 33 damage. Sniper rifle does 30 damage + 0.25 Firing Accuracy, which is more than 33 even for a poorly trained agent, and sniper rifles are meant to be used by marksmen (or they won't hit).

Also is it possible to place soldiers in the beginning of battle back to back? I mean back to car/van and face to danger.

Yes, it's possible, but facing to the sides seems more natural after getting out of the car. Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 30, 2016, 02:31:13 pm
Is this bug or feature, that sniper rifle does less damage, than hunting rifle?

Nord,

It isn't a bug...at least it isn't a bug in this mod. I believe it is a combination of lack of foresight, balance taken from a different mod and 0-200% damage calculation.

I'm going to assume you experienced the marshmallow bullet problem. It seems suddenly that for some reason that you are shooting dudes with marshmallows or pillows while the enemy suddenly starts killing your men with 1 shot.

I have my own pet theory (that is a bug) on why this happens which I'm not going to share here, but let me give you some advice to counter it.

1.TFTD damage calculation
2. Nitro rifle
3. keep playing.

Don't expect anyone else in the OXC community to care about what you experienced at the hands of RNG. You will only hear the same tired appeals to authority of  "X did it" or "It's fine like it is" or "You can play something else" or some other bullshit, so be prepared.

Regards,

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 30, 2016, 02:36:08 pm
Nord,

It isn't a bug...at least it isn't a bug in this mod. I believe it is a combination of lack of foresight, balance taken from a different mod and 0-200% damage calculation.

Lawl.

No, it's the fact that the information about the bonus damage is missing from the Ufopaedia. Which is wrong and I apologize, will be fixed in the next release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 30, 2016, 05:16:26 pm
Well,

Ass U me= assume :)

There I go proving I'm an ass.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on August 30, 2016, 06:34:35 pm
-All this talk reminded me,  how to change to TFTD damage model (there is no mod option like in Nightlies) or to 50-200%. Don't like 0 becouse it's stupid when you have % chance to hit and when you hit it's 0 dmg.

-Cult Activity Investigation Crash. Attached log. (need dmp file?)

-First month. Mission witch 49 zombies. Need 3-4 hit for kill. That was a long mission. Good that i had spare clips in the van.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 30, 2016, 07:33:53 pm
-All this talk reminded me,  how to change to TFTD damage model (there is no mod option like in Nightlies) or to 50-200%. Don't like 0 becouse it's stupid when you have % chance to hit and when you hit it's 0 dmg.

Unfortunately I am not aware of this option.

But... stupid? Quite the opposite. The TFTD damage is not only bad for the game balance, but it's also unrealistic, unless you are using Dalek death rays. It's an old argument here, please check for example this thread: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4825.0.html for details.

-Cult Activity Investigation Crash. Attached log. (need dmp file?)

If you had a save game, it would be good. There is an elusive crash, it might be this.

-First month. Mission witch 49 zombies. Need 3-4 hit for kill. That was a long mission. Good that i had spare clips in the van.

Yeah, these missions sometimes take long... But I really like them. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on August 30, 2016, 11:58:46 pm
Unfortunately I am not aware of this option.

But... stupid? Quite the opposite. The TFTD damage is not only bad for the game balance, but it's also unrealistic, unless you are using Dalek death rays. It's an old argument here, please check for example this thread: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4825.0.html for details.

Beauty of PC gaming. "Don't like it? Change it!" For me it's stupid and it always be. Someone with good imagination can think about some randome events that caused a miss hit but for me it's just a game limitation. If it was better made and occure before shoot like weapons durability and jam (something like JA2) it would be good. Still remember plaing X-Com back in the day, losing soldiers in one hit and this happy feel when one survive after hit. Would like to see my facial expression when i saw no damage from taking plasma to the face. Thought that was a game bug. When i hit somthing it need to "bleed" i am ok with 10% but not with 0%.

If you had a save game, it would be good. There is an elusive crash, it might be this.

Save attached.

Yeah, these missions sometimes take long... But I really like them. :P

Not a big fan. Maybe witch better weapons not pistols. It's like ducks shooting except ducks can fly away and zombies just wander around. Probably it's a AI limitations but all mele enemies act just the same. Would be nice to have ~15 aggressive (or even more with lower TU) enemies that go straight at you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 12:51:04 am
Beauty of PC gaming. "Don't like it? Change it!" For me it's stupid and it always be. Someone with good imagination can think about some randome events that caused a miss hit but for me it's just a game limitation. If it was better made and occure before shoot like weapons durability and jam (something like JA2) it would be good. Still remember plaing X-Com back in the day, losing soldiers in one hit and this happy feel when one survive after hit. Would like to see my facial expression when i saw no damage from taking plasma to the face. Thought that was a game bug. When i hit somthing it need to "bleed" i am ok with 10% but not with 0%.

Oh, I don't mind if you or anyone play at TFTD rules, I was merely stating a view. And well, the mod is balanced for the X-Com formula.
But I would like to add that the X-Com interface is simple, so many things are approximations. 0 is also an approximation, meaning "no loss of combat capability". I'm fine with that. Maybe that plasma bolt only burned off some of that soldiers' jacket. Or the bullet was stopped by a Bible in their pocket. (OK, that last one probably isn't the best example.)

Save attached.

Thanks. Yeah, it crashes... I have no idea why, my analysis of the save shows correct deployment, mission and such. I'll try to investigate further...

Not a big fan. Maybe witch better weapons not pistols. It's like ducks shooting except ducks can fly away and zombies just wander around. Probably it's a AI limitations but all mele enemies act just the same. Would be nice to have ~15 aggressive (or even more with lower TU) enemies that go straight at you.

Well, I was hoping spiders and chupacabras would fill this role... But I'm going to expand the list of creatures if I can!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on August 31, 2016, 12:59:37 am
Zombies are apparently less dangerous than the other (faster) melee enemies. Their large number increases the chance that there is a dangerous situation in the first turns (and thus, challenge). If you don't get a very unlucky start, and manage to hold for a few turns, you can breathe and start a careful cleaning-up at your own rythm. I think it's a welcome change from the other melee enemies : It gives a chance to train troops and test material.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on August 31, 2016, 11:57:04 am
I have an idea for an alien unit: Make it a symbiotic being existing of two beings, one controlling the other. If the combined unit gets killed spawn a tiny parasite (the controlling unit).

As you might have guessed: I just watched a documentation about parasitic worms controlling grashoppers.... if you need nightmares, go google it.  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 12:07:36 pm
I have an idea for an alien unit: Make it a symbiotic being existing of two beings, one controlling the other. If the combined unit gets killed spawn a tiny parasite (the controlling unit).

As you might have guessed: I just watched a documentation about parasitic worms controlling grashoppers.... if you need nightmares, go google it.  :P

Yes, I'm all for this kind of stuff. :)
But the implementation needs a lot of thinking. What mission? Where? What resources to use? Do I need to draw the terain? Oh please, no new terrains... :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: new_civilian on August 31, 2016, 12:15:34 pm
No terrain needed. Just make a unit and enter a SpawnUnit: Parasite entry in its rul. Any mission would do, no need for something special, make it a regular unit.

Oooooohh, Maybe the zombies???!!!  :o
That would explain them!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on August 31, 2016, 01:19:25 pm
That way it would be just like any other enemy but with cool story and yes zombies are already like that.
"These infected humans has been completely overtaken by an alien parasite." - Ufopedia

Thanks. Yeah, it crashes... I have no idea why, my analysis of the save shows correct deployment, mission and such. I'll try to investigate further...

Doesn't crash after waiting few days. Haw that works ? It generate different mission after some time ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 02:18:46 pm
That way it would be just like any other enemy but with cool story and yes zombies are already like that.
"These infected humans has been completely overtaken by an alien parasite." - Ufopedia

Well yes, although there is more to the zombies. :) It'll be here when I manage to add new units.

Doesn't crash after waiting few days. Haw that works ? It generate different mission after some time ?

Meridian found the problem; turned out there was indeed a (rare) bug in deployments. Will be fixed with the next release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 31, 2016, 04:14:02 pm

The TFTD damage is not only bad for the game balance, but it's also unrealistic, unless you are using Dalek death rays.

As unrealistic as, let's say.... A secret U.N. program designed to fight aliens without the correct equipment? :)

It's a fucking game and a fun one too. All the bitching and complaining? It shows we live pretty decent lives.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 04:53:09 pm
As unrealistic as, let's say.... A secret U.N. program designed to fight aliens without the correct equipment? :)

It's a fucking game and a fun one too. All the bitching and complaining? It shows we live pretty decent lives.

Then no discussion about games makes sense. It's just a game, right? What are you doing here by the way, wasting your life on some silly game forum? Go do something meaningful! :P

Of course a game is a model representing a part of a greater reality. The realism of X-Com as an organization is not a theme of the game, and therefore outside the fragment of reality it represents. Whats important is that X-Com exists, not how and why; for all we know, it could be a parallel universe where certain things went differently in world politics. Or something else. (X-Com Files sort of aims to address this, to a degree.)
But combat is within the scope of interest of X-Com no matter how simplified it is), so I expect it to make more sense. And I find flat TFTD damage annoying, because it feels artificial to me. That's all there is!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on August 31, 2016, 05:44:27 pm
HelmetHair is right on one thing: If we have time/energy to waste in arguing about games, we have pretty decent lives. First world problems and all that. It is funny to see how us privileged people can get riled up on such little things. I think his comment was mostly to poke fun at the situation :) A kind of "I stepped back, realized it's a minuscule problem and how lucky we are to be able to consider it as something worth spending time on. This is all just fun and nothing personal/life affecting. Let's be chill." with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Back "on topic": Realism in physics and realism in story are two different things. Striving for one does not necessarily imply striving for the other. There's plenty of stories with unrealistic physics upon which great, sort of believable, entertaining stories are built. (ex.: Dune Lasgun-Shield interactions: why the hell would the gun blow up from hitting the shield? The shield is sending something back it it in a directed way?! And they both have in them power sources as powerful as nuclear bombs yet man portable? Please It's done because the author needed it to tell his story and wanted knife fights. Also, why not spears/swords? Anyhow.. this isn't about Dune sorry). There are also unbelievable stories in which the physics are totally fine, or any other combination.

Solarius has a story he wants to tell and does it with this mod. Whether you think it's a realistic one or not (and whether you enjoy it) is up to you and should have little bearing on the story because it's Solarius' to tell (since it is a work in evolution, fair, constructive criticism should be, and I feel is, welcome). If you don't want to experience the struggle of a secret organization trying to fight the alien invasion and terran bureaucracy at the same time, and obviously that's the story Solarius wants to tell, then just go to another story: Either lead the rebellious girls of the dystopian future, the poor soldiers fighting aliens with a hard-on, or the heroic soldiers fighting for the council and the good of Earth, something else, or just vanilla with some extra stuff. There's quite some choice!

Now in any XCom mod, the experience relies on combat and trying to achieve believable combat is a universal goal because nobody is interested in the story of "and everyone has wonky guns" (which includes both "guns that do nothing most of the time" and "guns that always kill" as both are ridiculous). Of course, there are different philosophies about what believable combat is and how it should be approximated using the current engine. The discussion has already occurred in an already lengthy thread for Piratez. I, for one, have been convinced a while ago by Dioxine that the flat distribution works best given the engine's fighting mechanics as a whole (it makes low armor still valuable, high armor less impervious, for one thing, which I consider good). Should we use a different distribution if the engine was better? Of course! But the engine is not better, it's the engine we have. Using it, many, including two of our foremost modders of which one is the author of this mod, believe that the 0-200% distribution is best. If the actual argument of how it works better given the engine doesn't convince you, at least the fact that it is a reasoned decision should placate you from complaining too regularly about it instead trying to support their really outstanding, entertaining and free work.

Also, luckily, it's a single player game and you can mod their master mod without affecting anyone else's experience, so there's an easy (a fraction of the work Dioxine and Solarius have put in their mod) way to "fix" guns to improve your own experience.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on August 31, 2016, 05:55:04 pm
HelmetHair is right on one thing: If we have time/energy to waste in arguing about games, we have pretty decent lives. First world problems and all that. It is funny to see how us privileged people can get riled up on such little things. I think his comment was mostly to poke fun at the situation :) A kind of "I stepped back, realized it's a minuscule problem and how lucky we are to be able to consider it as something worth spending time on. This is all just fun and nothing personal/life affecting. Let's be chill." with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Back "on topic": Realism in physics and realism in story are two different things. Striving for one does not necessarily imply striving for the other. There's plenty of stories with unrealistic physics upon which great, sort of believable, entertaining stories are built. (ex.: Dune Lasgun-Shield interactions: why the hell would the gun blow up from hitting the shield? The shield is sending something back it it in a directed way?! And they both have in them power sources as powerful as nuclear bombs yet man portable? Please It's done because the author needed it to tell his story and wanted knife fights. Also, why not spears/swords? Anyhow.. this isn't about Dune sorry). There are also unbelievable stories in which the physics are totally fine, or any other combination.

Solarius has a story he wants to tell and does it with this mod. Whether you think it's a realistic one or not (and whether you enjoy it) is up to you and should have little bearing on the story because it's Solarius' to tell (since it is a work in evolution, fair, constructive criticism should be, and I feel is, welcome). If you don't want to experience the struggle of a secret organization trying to fight the alien invasion and terran bureaucracy at the same time, and obviously that's the story Solarius wants to tell, then just go to another story: Either lead the rebellious girls of the dystopian future, the poor soldiers fighting aliens with a hard-on, or the heroic soldiers fighting for the council and the good of Earth, something else, or just vanilla with some extra stuff. There's quite some choice!

Now in any XCom mod, the experience relies on combat and trying to achieve believable combat is a universal goal because nobody is interested in the story of "and everyone has wonky guns" (which includes both "guns that do nothing sometimes" and "guns that always kill" as both are ridiculous). Of course, there are different philosophies about what believable combat is and how it should be approximated using the current engine. The discussion has already occurred in an already lengthy thread for Piratez. I, for one, have been convinced a while ago by Dioxine that the flat distribution works best given the engine's fighting mechanics as a whole (it makes low armor still valuable, high armor less impervious, for one thing, which I consider good). Should we use a different distribution if the engine was better? Of course! But the engine is not better, it's the engine we have. Using it, many, including two of our foremost modders of which one is the author of this mod, believe that the 0-200% distribution is best. If the actual argument of how it works better given the engine doesn't convince you, at least the fact that it is a reasoned decision should placate you from complaining too regularly about it instead trying to support their really outstanding, entertaining and free work.

Also, luckily, it's a single player game and you can mod their master mod without affecting anyone else's experience, so there's an easy (a fraction of the work Dioxine and Solarius have put in their mod) way to "fix" guns to improve your own experience.

+ 100. Eloquent and excellent reasoning! Thanks, Arthanor!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 06:43:45 pm
Yes, sure, well said Arthanor.

Though my first world would be better if my mod stopped crashing. :P I already asked Meridian twice today, he helped every time, now I'm getting another crash...

I hope to release something when this problem is over, because 1) the current XCF version is very unstable and 2) there's some good new stuff (though not THAT much).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on August 31, 2016, 07:48:22 pm
Well, mod making progress and personal debugger is a pretty good situation too!

Don't let that get to you! I'm looking forward to the next release as the "power armor parts grind" is getting a bit tedious. Seems like your mod would be the perfect breath of fresh air.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 07:52:49 pm
Don't let that get to you! I'm looking forward to the next release as the "power armor parts grind" is getting a bit tedious. Seems like your mod would be the perfect breath of fresh air.

Thanks, that's really nice to hear. Though I don't think the next release will be "ready" enough, unless you don't play a lot and can upgrade along the way. I just have so much I plan to add! :)

Anyway, I asked Meridian, he'll look into this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on August 31, 2016, 08:05:45 pm
Glad to help! ;) I think you've taken a very intriguing twist with the "early XCom before XCom was really a thing" direction and the tiny teams (although I can see myself getting really frustrated at that, I'm one to always send more people than needed). And I'm quite curious to try this contentious bureaucracy barrier.

The current level of development sounds perfect for messing around a bit when I don't feel like raiding Guild Gunship #14513. Provided you don't add missions that get blocked by progressing past a certain point/time, hopefully there will be little problems with upgrading. I have some experience with Piratez any ways, that campaign is so long I've gone through enough updates to get used to it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on August 31, 2016, 08:21:18 pm
Then no discussion about games makes sense. It's just a game, right? What are you doing here by the way, wasting your life on some silly game forum? Go do something meaningful! :P


Sol,

I'm going to place everything else aside...

Dude... I was poking fun at you a little, and not in a mean way. Just as you poke fun at me and I don't take it in a mean way. However, when something makes sense to you, it does not mean it automatically makes sense to me. This is not bad, this not good, it simply is. We are so lucky to be able to even have this conversation... Everything condsidered; that's all I meant.

Now, on the aspect of doing something meaningful with my life?

I design, fabricate, and fit prosthetic limbs and orthotic devices 3-4 days a week for no pay. Most of my clients are SALTY old veterans, diabetics and children with congenital abnormalities. I work a weekend job fri-sun overnights to provide for my family and to continue to do what I do in an effort to ease the suffering of others. That has no bearing on OXC, but it is the meaning I found in my life.

XCF is just a wonderful distraction from borderline functional alcoholism.  :o

I've not been explicit, but I will be now...

YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. TO. JUSTIFY. ANYTHING. TO. ANYONE!

least of all me.... ok?

Tell your story and don't sweat pissants like me.

Have a wonderful day!

-HH

P.S. My forum character and me personally are different, you have to know that... One is quiet, buttoned down, and never rude... The other is brash, doesn't give a fuck about anything and is trite with a capital T.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2016, 08:39:48 pm
Ouch, sorry if it was too harsh, I certainly didn't mean it as an attack! I may have been too direct, as in, forgetting it's the internet. Of course I'm not saying your life isn't meaningful or anything like that, it didn't even occur to me, I was only going to express that since we're talking the game, we're talking it for real. Sorry!

Anyway, the bug was found within seconds by Meridian the Hunter. I'll test some more and post when I think it's mostly safe.

PS. I'd love to see some pictures of your work! Prosthetics are fascinating.


EDIT:

Juku, I started browsing your version. Impressive. I'll probably include something, but it's complicated; for example I already added a plasma SMG of sorts which is completely different.
I also think it would be best if you made your mod as an expansion to mine. It would be much slimmer, since it would only include the changes, and also much easier to handle (by me, heh). You may specify in the metadata that your mod requires something else to work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 01, 2016, 01:15:09 am
As you wish... I do have some caveats that have nothing to do with you personally in your interest, but my relationship with my patients.

I will not show devices on patients or an individuals residual limb this would be a privacy violation and falls under the category of profession moral hazard as well as a personal breach of trust.

I can however; show castings, the steps and the end product, but not donned. I am willing to describe in general terms the etiology, pathology, technical challenges, materials, components and my failures.... Jesus, I've failed people despite my best efforts.

anyways, after I get home I'll post a few.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on September 01, 2016, 08:28:53 pm
Quote
Juku, I started browsing your version. Impressive. I'll probably include something, but it's complicated; for example I already added a plasma SMG of sorts which is completely different.
I also think it would be best if you made your mod as an expansion to mine. It would be much slimmer, since it would only include the changes, and also much easier to handle (by me, heh). You may specify in the metadata that your mod requires something else to work.

Well, I can't guarantee that I'd be able to do much in the near future (new (school)year, new people to teach at uni). There are also large swathes of unfinished work (item pricing and manufacture costs are rather ... random, especially all my new additions; I never got to the enemy stats overhaul, Meridian keeps adding new stuff I'd like to make use of at some point, and I've discovered and fixed a bunch of errors (I *think* they were all my own, not yours  ;)) since I posted my files).

Basically, I think there are a couple of unquestionably nice ideas (briefings on enemy resistances etc), some more controversial ones (Alien weapons must be converted/rebuilt before use) and quite a few rather random things (Psi-Suits, because I could). I mean what I said: use what changes/graphics you find to your liking, ignore the rest. My .rul files are close enough to yours that just comparing them with some file comparison tool should cut down on your work quite a bit. It'd be a shame to let all the work go unused and I'm currently not able to sustain and support a submod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 02, 2016, 01:24:09 am
Sol,

Here is a small sample of what I have and I'll describe them as I go.

This first set is one that is close to my heart....

This is a bit of prosthesis/ orthosis.... let me explain.

First, I'm pretty certain that you know nothing about rodeo work or working horsemanship such as cattle wrangling. I don't expect you to, and it's fine if you do or don't.

Anyway, Thumb injuries are really common in roping cattle, specifically in what is called team roping; specifcally "heeling" that is getting a rope around the back legs of the steer (neutered bull) while your partner "heads" the steer by getting a rope around his horns or neck or WTFE they can. The problem is the process called Dallying, that is pulling the steer with a rope, if you miss the dally your finger/thumb gets caught between the horn of the saddle and the rope.... and comes off. I've included a video link that shows a kid who got lucky and just how fast it can happen... he's heeling.

Old cowboys... if you ever get to looking at their hands... you can see how fucked up they are missing pieces of or complete fingers; it is the nature of the beast. A professional rodeo roper can win a few hundred thousand dollars a year... if they are good and most of these people are young, hardy, strong men and women who are incredible people who have been in an accident.... Anyway, I digress.

I had a patient who was about a year post amputation after losing a thumb and was mostly annoyed that they would bang their residuial thumb into stuff and it hurt. This is because your hands are incredibly innervated (duh) and surgical technique currently encourage neuroma formation. A neuroma is a cluster of nerve tissue that is balled up and sensitive... think like a pain/pressure/hot/cold button attached directly to your nervous sytem; because that is what it is.

I built a protective prostheses a touch longer so they could get their thumb into opposition and keep that tender end all nice and comfy. I actually built several... a few in silicone for daily wear, and a few utilising carbon fiber and thermoformed padding. In either case it worked out and I managed to allow my patient to not only be more comfortable, but resume roping using learned technique.... score. Also, being carbon fiber and done correctly it wouldn't crush in the event of a misdally.... Score.

Anyways, I have more.... just a hectice day.

video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_sauqj6-SY


-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2016, 02:14:43 am
Thanks HH, that's really interesting. I'm working in medicine, so that's a given I'd be interested!

BTW what's a dally? All dictionaries only seem to know it as a verb... :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 02, 2016, 02:53:31 am
Cool stuff. Both the fact that they can go back to what they used to do and that they actually want to is amazing. :D

Solarius: I'm looking forward to your next release to start a campaign. How's that bug fixed version coming up? :P (No pressure, just keen interest!)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2016, 03:21:01 am
I'm looking forward to your next release to start a campaign. How's that bug fixed version coming up? :P (No pressure, just keen interest!)

Meridian helped me resolve this, so for the past day or so I was adding stuff, polishing articles and so on... But I cannot remain indifferent to such interest! So, version 0.3 is online.

I was hesitant to call it 0.3, since a new decimal number should only appear when a new arc is complete, and in this case it isn't. But the Cyberweb arc is huge and I'll probably take a break from it before it's done, especially since it smoothly leads to the next arc while already requiring much of its resources... So I'm releasing the first "episode" of Cyberweb now, and the rest will have to wait.

Now, what's inside?
- Started the Cyberweb arc. The new terrain is kinda ramshackle, I will work on it more.
- Prisoners are now divided between aliens, humans and animals, each with their own facility. Alien Containment is researchable.
- Added Sick Bay facility.
- Added Groza assault rifle.
- Added Blackops Sniper Rifle.
- Rebalanced shotguns (again) for the new pellet calculation system. (Now they can actually hit something.)
- New Magnum sprite, by Yrizoud.
- Decreased Glock clip price.
- Flare Pistol is now concealable, like other pistols. (At least unless it is used, then it becomes the total opposite of concealable.)
- Standard plasma weapons now use Gaussian formula for damage, meaning they will get average results much more often. This is kinda experimental, so I hope it works and doesn't break anything!
- Taser only has Aimed Shots now. This is to prevent agents from using it in reactions - it's a taser, not a six-shooter.
- Added some Ufopaedia pages about weapon types.
- Added more info to some Ufopaedia weapon entries.
- Improved some Ufopaedia articles (with help from Juku - now the Ufopaedia is 10% less Polandball-like).
- Reordered some articles (work in progress).
- Added more fluff articles, including Meridian the Hunter (a donation prize).
- Fixed SOLFOREST14 map, by Dioxine.
- Added four city map blocks by Civilian.
- Fixed X-Com car map. Now its middle section is actually taller.
- Added new death screams, for all humans. And I think they're hilarious.
- Fixed personal files page palette issues.
- Fixed a missing research for Obliterator.
- Fixed a wrong terrain for the cult outpost.
- Added small personal lights to all armours.

I didn't use the new pilot mechanics, because I'm not sure if X-Com agents should pilot jet fighters...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 02, 2016, 05:37:18 am
A Dally is the few wraps of rope around the horn of the saddle. To Dally or dallying is to wrap the rope around the horn of the saddle, making a dally.

The best form is for it to be done thumb up, but most cowboys (and girls) will complain about a loss of control etc,... fine. However even that event the rope should be wrapped counter-clockwise with steer to the left and clockwise with steer to the right to prevent the thumb from being pinched.... at least in a typical team rope. some times shit happens and then people "misdally" which is to dally thumb down or wrap wrong and boom thumb goes flying.

Yeah, I hate the fact that it happens. It isn't usually the old dudes either... it is the young guys and gals. 17,18,19,20 who get their shit wrecked. It pisses me off... but what am I gonna do? tell them they can't? No. Warn them to use proper technique and gear? Yes.

The next is a Symes ampuatation that is in this day...quite rare. They are a bit of a pain in the ass to fit for, but can have great outcomes.

The advantage of a Symes amputation is that the residual limb is end bearing. If you Haven't seen one, google it... Basically it is an ankle disarticulation replacing the heel under the ankle mortis.... The talus is either preserved or removed, and the malleoli are left alone or trimmed; and either a myodesis or a myoplasty is performed. The best outcome for a young adult patient is preserved talus, trimmed malleoli and a decent myodesis. Which is the patient presented in my next photos.

Pretty straightforward  amputation due to trauma, you can see there is no wasting and the patient trained hard to get back into their life. They were walking 4 weeks post op and running in 6. That is what determination looks like. This particular patient got into weight lifting and hiking etc again and the biggest accomodation had to make is that the patient would break down feet. We switched to cheap feet to get it done right. They are good with it... so I'm good with it.

SACH foot on a lacer of a modified Canadian VA design from 1945ish.

Carbon core, basalt transition layer, fiberglass abatement/ damage resistance layer with a polyester scrim ( for shine bruh :) )

The modifacations have to do with where it suspends on the patient. Positive lock on the patellar tendon for added weight bearing, reduction on the belly of the gastrocnemius, medial and lateral of the tibia with more weight bearing towards the lateral and 5 degrees of dorsiflexion for maximized and comfortable muscular potential.

These photos are fom during fabrication...

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2016, 05:57:24 am
Yep, looks awesome! I really like the form.

(I wonder if I should split the thread...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 02, 2016, 06:51:38 am
Woot! 7 hours on the bus coming up and a 3 days weekend, just compiled the latest of latest of Meridian's branch and I know which mod I'll be playing. Thanks for releasing Solarius!  I'll keep you posted! Maybe I'll make reports, kinda like the il' captain's log. No graphics (too much work!) But stories are nice and they write themselves.

I think my first duo will be Sol and Dio (Sun and God? What a team!!), we'll see how long they last!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on September 02, 2016, 01:23:38 pm
Did a very very quick shot at 0.3, some hint:

1) researching basic stuff may wrk as extended piratez, it should lead to some items buyable, not other ones to be researchd from scratch. Same should apply for (ifprogrammed) ak-47, ma-16 and so on..maybe the magun may be renamed .357 magnum or even better .44 magunm (dirty harry  (https://rs86.pbsrc.com/albums/k90/22theman/dirtyharry.jpg~c200)would be happy  8) along luger, thompson 1929A (https://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg29/tommy_m1928.jpg) may fit as starting crap smg, improved version should be the uzi. The former may have the actual uzi damage (20) latter may have more (25-30?)

2) a starting buyable item may be also pepper spray (https://www.google.it/search?q=pepper+spray&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj55qfCuvDOAhXGPBQKHfx6BocQ_AUICCgB&biw=1422&bih=612), useful only agains human enemies. :)

Edit: as for 0.3, how, if any,  changes from the user Juku121 verison (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg69465.html#msg69465) have been implemented? if noy, any of these are planned to be? Thanks again for the great mod!

Edit 2: as early-mid game, an IMI Negev may be fine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Negev), later something a bit heavy like M60 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun)

Edit 3:In general improved versions of weapons (electric baton) should be researchble and manufacturable, while the basic onles (eg stun baton (https://www.smartstun.com/assets/images/StunMaster300sb.jpg)) shoulb be unlocked in the market after some research on the right contact/dealers. Also, would be nice also to have an operative field suit (mimetic- paramilitary alike), the only outfit to support kevlar vests, quite uncommon to wear it on a "casual outfit". Maybe don't know if it might be doable, but whatever
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 02, 2016, 02:44:29 pm
New version? Good... New game must be started, or old saves will work?

First report: animal pen and prison has no ufopedia entry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 02, 2016, 03:34:35 pm
Up to you.... On splitting the thread. I'll share more if you wish... or shut up :)


Now, about 0.3...

Fuck yeah!

I'm pretty excited and ready to play it.

On the Taser, did you just eliminate the snapshot or replace snapshot with aimed shot for all values.... nevermind, I'll download and look.

-HH

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 03, 2016, 03:04:28 am
Well, I compiled a new executable for that tasty night vision, downloaded version 0.3 and set everything up, but something's messed up.

Somehow the "startingBase" isn't taken into account unless I set the mod as a master mod (isMaster: true in metadata). If I do things normally, the mod is loaded fine (I can see ufopaedia articles and stuff) but the starting base I get is the normal vanilla one with a skyranger and 2 interceptors. If I set it as master, it's missing a bunch of strings.

I compared the definitions with the Piratez one and can't find anything borked, so I'm at a loss of what to do. Any suggestion?

Edit: I sort of managed to fool it by setting the mod as master, starting a game, saving, unsetting the master, adding xcom1 to the list of mods and loading in a "modded xcom1" game. But that leaves a few things not working, like skyrangers and interceptors being available from the start which I assume shouldn't be (and a pump action shotgun?), so I stopped playing after reading the pedia articles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 03, 2016, 01:48:13 pm
1) researching basic stuff may wrk as extended piratez, it should lead to some items buyable, not other ones to be researchd from scratch.

Ummm, that's how it is already...
In fact, X-Files were first in this regard. :P

Same should apply for (ifprogrammed) ak-47, ma-16 and so on..maybe the magun may be renamed .357 magnum or even better .44 magunm (dirty harry  (https://rs86.pbsrc.com/albums/k90/22theman/dirtyharry.jpg~c200)would be happy  8) along luger, thompson 1929A (https://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg29/tommy_m1928.jpg) may fit as starting crap smg, improved version should be the uzi. The former may have the actual uzi damage (20) latter may have more (25-30?)
(...)
Edit 2: as early-mid game, an IMI Negev may be fine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Negev), later something a bit heavy like M60 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun)

This falls in the category of "moar weponz". I am not against it, but where would they fit? I don't want to clutter the shop with more and more weapons, because moderation is important. I could give it to enemies, but I'd need some new factions. :P
In short, adding weapons is relatively easy. But they must have a place first.

2) a starting buyable item may be also pepper spray (https://www.google.it/search?q=pepper+spray&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj55qfCuvDOAhXGPBQKHfx6BocQ_AUICCgB&biw=1422&bih=612), useful only agains human enemies. :)

I'll think about this one, could be amusing.

Edit: as for 0.3, how, if any,  changes from the user Juku121 verison (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg69465.html#msg69465) have been implemented? if noy, any of these are planned to be? Thanks again for the great mod!

For now, just some description corrections. (More along the way, haven't finished fixing the strings yet.) Oh, and plasma damage roll modification, although Juku used TFTD damage and I decided to use Gaussian instead, but the result is similar.

Edit 3:In general improved versions of weapons (electric baton) should be researchble and manufacturable, while the basic onles (eg stun baton (https://www.smartstun.com/assets/images/StunMaster300sb.jpg)) shoulb be unlocked in the market after some research on the right contact/dealers.

Yes, it's called STUN ROD. :P

Also, would be nice also to have an operative field suit (mimetic- paramilitary alike), the only outfit to support kevlar vests, quite uncommon to wear it on a "casual outfit". Maybe don't know if it might be doable, but whatever

It's doable, like the Guerilla armour from Piratez which gives some camo. But I'm not sure what to do with it yet.

New version? Good... New game must be started, or old saves will work?

They should work.

First report: animal pen and prison has no ufopedia entry.

Oops. Yeah, they shouldn't have
Code: [Select]
    requires:
      - STR_SICK_BAY
in their Ufopaedia entries. Thanks for the report! Attaching a quick fix.

Up to you.... On splitting the thread. I'll share more if you wish... or shut up :)

I don't mind if it continues here. :) At least if it's not too overwhelming.

On the Taser, did you just eliminate the snapshot or replace snapshot with aimed shot for all values.... nevermind, I'll download and look.

I've only changed snapShot to aimedShot. The stats and general behaviour are the same, except you can't reaction fire with it.

Well, I compiled a new executable for that tasty night vision, downloaded version 0.3 and set everything up, but something's messed up. (...)

Well, I am at a loss...it seems to work for everyone else. I'd like to help, but I have no idea what could be wrong... I think Meridian might be of help. I'll consult Dioxine too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on September 03, 2016, 02:41:03 pm
I need to start New Game. In my old Game i have 3 bases in build. But now the rooms are random and building room that i not research....

Not problem to start again

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 03, 2016, 04:22:23 pm
I need to start New Game. In my old Game i have 3 bases in build. But now the rooms are random and building room that i not research....

To be honest I don't understand, but I think your problem is containment facilities. The change between the previous version and the current one is that in the old one there was only one type of "prison", the Alien Containment, while in the new one there are three different types. But this shouldn't cause problems other than you may have Alien Containment before you research it, but it's just a "bonus". And you'll have to build the other two, of course.

I'm still worried about what Arthanor reported... The problem with setting XCF as a master is that is still relies on X-Com rulesets (although increasingly less). And besides, XCF has some high listOrder numbers (particularly the handobs), which is known to cause problems in masters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 03, 2016, 06:28:31 pm
Well, I am at a loss...it seems to work for everyone else. I'd like to help, but I have no idea what could be wrong... I think Meridian might be of help. I'll consult Dioxine too.

Well, I'm at a loss too! I messed around a little bit with the metadata and ruleset names (thinking maybe the ID was too long/shouldn't have '-' or that the ruleset names were too long) and suddenly it worked! Then since I wasn't sure how I fixed it, I removed everything and reinstalled the mod, and it still worked?!

I even removed x-com-files from loaded mods in the config and reloaded as if the game never knew about the mod, and it works. So I don't know.. but the important thing is: it's working :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 04, 2016, 12:35:13 am
Solarius, please, maybe it will be good to rename research projects "swarmids" and "swarmids corpse" by adding a word "small". Because no ufopedia entry after these projects confuses me. (When large versions is not researched)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 04, 2016, 04:14:36 am
Glad it works for you.

Solarius, please, maybe it will be good to rename research projects "swarmids" and "swarmids corpse" by adding a word "small". Because no ufopedia entry after these projects confuses me. (When large versions is not researched)

I'm not sure I understand, I guess I'll need to test it further.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 04, 2016, 08:09:05 am
Moar dakka! ;D

earlier today I had an issue where I went on a black lotus dossier capture mission.

found the dude and stunned him to end the mission... it threw an error string error pertaining to alien containment. no points no capture etc.

thoughts?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 04, 2016, 08:42:56 am
I'm not sure I understand, I guess I'll need to test it further.
Sorry for my bad spelling...
When you encounter swarmids and research them, no ufopedia entry appears. I look into .rul files and discover two kind of swarmids, small terrorist and large terrorist, with ufopedia article, depended from both. Am i right, that article will appear when both species will be researched?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 04, 2016, 09:01:09 am
Moar dakka! ;D

earlier today I had an issue where I went on a black lotus dossier capture mission.

found the dude and stunned him to end the mission... it threw an error string error pertaining to alien containment. no points no capture etc.

thoughts?
There are now Animal Pens, Prison cells and something for aliens. You need the right one for the right captive. Presumably you didn't have the Prisons for your human captive.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 04, 2016, 01:03:35 pm
Yes, like Arthanor said: if you upgraded from an earlier version, it probably means you don't have Prison Cells and need to build them. Because you can't keep humans in Alien suites.

Sorry for my bad spelling...
When you encounter swarmids and research them, no ufopedia entry appears. I look into .rul files and discover two kind of swarmids, small terrorist and large terrorist, with ufopedia article, depended from both. Am i right, that article will appear when both species will be researched?

Hmmm... This shouldn't work like that. I'll have to do some extensive tests.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 04, 2016, 10:42:13 pm
So I played way more than I should have. Well done Solarius! It is indeed the breath of fresh air I needed from Piratez. I think the mod is really cool and despite my original misgivings about having such small teams, I think it works really well to make tense, quick turns.

Although the small teams make me fear the arbitrary T20 cheat turn quite a lot. Fighting 2 vs 10 wandering enemies is manageable. Past T20, even 2 vs 2 can be really risky. Generally, maps and deployments are small enough that this is no problem though.

There's an old map bug with a blocked door that got me to turn 35 or something (blockage under the cursor), for which I attached a screenshot. Luckily, I could snipe the studs from the wall with my Luger and get to the guy on the other side :D

Warning: Incoming comments dump!
(These come in the order I noticed things, so it gives a look at my progression too)

X-Com Origins:
1 - "since national governments were deemed untrustworthy"
By whom? National governments? I doubt they would consider themselves untrustworthy, but maybe each others. The UN staff? Sure, but how do they make the unit and then go to the governments and say: "Well, it's a UN thing, suck it we don't trust you"? A bit more explanation would be good, and if it is indeed the UN staff who don't trust the government and want to run their own thing, it creates the start of an explanation at the hilariously nerfed state of XCom equipment: The governments wouldn't allow something that they don't have a say in to have much beyond paper pushers.

X-Com Global investigation bureau
2 - "seems unusually high and defying scientific explanation"
Being unusually high is quire proper for a spike, that's not really comment worthy. And you mean sociologists studied it and failed to come up with anything? That seems highly unlikely. Maybe say something like: "The first issue to tackle is finding an explanation for a concurrent spike in the number of criminal organizations and religious sects noticeable on every continent."

X-Com Personel
"work in top secret environment_S_"

Chief Accountant Intro:
"and I _as_sure you" not ensure

Stims/Painkillers/Medical Bag/First Aid Kit
Please write down the numbers restored, charges and TU costs. XCom can be a dream for number lovers and not supplying them is akin to not giving damage or TU costs for weapons. It is quite crucial when deciding on what to put in the car.

Personal protection/Uncommon weapons:
This is one of the things that annoy me the most in Piratez: Projects that do nothing but unlock other projects. Personal protection cost me 50 scientist-days, to discover that we didn't get kevlar vests (I kinda knew that!) and now my quartermaster is willing to look into it? 50 scientist-days for is a really long time to wait. Same with the guns: I thought "You can order them as normal" meant I could order them from the shop, but nope, gotta research them first.

The contacts in Piratez that unlock an article and some goods are a lot more satisfying. Getting "progress reports" is a nice idea, but it takes a long time to be told: it'll take a longer time again. It'd be neat to get these very quickly, as a hint of what that project can give so you can make an informed decision on what to pursue. But now they're a bit much of an investment for that. And partial goodies (like a civilian-grade bullet proof vest, or a hunting rifle for the guns one) before the real goodies like actual body armor and fancy guns would be nice.

Leather jacket:
Why wouldn't you wear it? Maybe there's an unlisted downside to it that would be worth saying? So far I've noticed nothing and everybody wears it. What's this constricting thing supposed to mean?

Zombies:
These guys need to be more aggressive once they spot you. I've had plenty just mill around instead of charging me, giving me plenty of time to shotgun them instead of being swarmed and having to run away. I thought they were suffering from the "no melee weapon" bug that the megascorpions had before. I had one walk all the way to me, not attack and then walk away, but no, I eventually got a bite. If aggression would make them too dangerous, nerf their mobility. Zombies are typically slow but single minded. These are a bit faster but confused.

Also, cool music for the alien life forms missions! Perfectly creepy!

Zombie article:
"completely immune to incapacitation" but.. I stunned a few of 'em! Also, facing the zombie hordes and completing the autopsy and interrogation could enable the "We need more manpower" project, which would be a shortcut to getting a minivan. Having material unlocks from accomplishing what your main task is (killing/capturing/studying/interrogating aliens and criminals) would be way more satisfying than the two progressions being separated. This way, you can either rush for the material unlocks, or try to do your job before the paperwork and, if you succeed, be rewarded for it.

Black Lotus Follower:
"These low-ranking members of _the_ Black Lotus"
There seems to be a lot of articles missing before proper nouns of organizations in the text. Also, is that a Cult or a criminal mafia? The article talks like its a cult, but somehow I thought they'd be a Triad. NVM: Found the article about them. If possible, it'd be great if it popped up like some interrogation projects sometimes do.

Reports:
Those are lol worthy and add flavor so I like them, but at the same time it leaves me wondering if there's something I should do about them (especially: "if you don't do something about this ruckus, I promise you I WILL, and YOU WILL NOT LIKE IT." but as far as I know, there's nothing I can do, so it ends up leaving a weird powerlessness/disconnection feeling instead of making me feel like part of the organization.

"Alien Containments"
The idea of separating is cool and sensible, although I was surprised that zombies are animals. I had a zombie mission with a civilian, which I sent a team from a base without prison/pen and I got a missing string (STR_ALIEN_DIES_NO_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT_FACILITY I think? It was so long parts of it were chopped.)

Small shotgun and Luger:
Those have become my mainstay. At 70 firing accuracy (you get that fast with the gym, I'd slow training down if possible), Lugers have good damage (the best you've got?) and great accuracy. Combine with the small shotgun for close up work and you get a great setup for your operatives. I've had wonderful results pinging away at advancing zombie hordes and finishing them off with a shotgun when they get close. Even had one operative take out a few Black Lotus monks and ninja-wannabes alone when I forgot his partner was wounded and sent him alone. Given these, I haven't really felt the need for different weapons, except I'd love a proper rifle.

Promotion I:
Cool! I've shown that there's a real threat. Now they take me more seriously so I can get some better stuff. Erhm.. I finally have permition to go to the local gun shop and get a hunting rifle? *Woot!* But I still can't rent a van or get body armor, or much or anything more useful than I already got.. It would feel a lot better to get promoted if promotion through official channels unlocked some legit stuff (police grade stuff?) or something, not the permission to improvise and buy civilian stuff. That kind of improvisation should be left for unofficial, shady work.

Also, I assume it unlocks harder missions? Or something else did because shortly after I got missions against whole groups in houses in the middle of nowhere that were probably not quite meant to be tackled by two agents with Lugers. Maybe these missions could get a slightly different name (If "suspect apprehension" is the one vs 2 enemies, maybe "safehouse bust" or something could be these?) so we can distinguish them and send proper teams.

Hunting Rifle:
"its overall performance is significantly lower than analogous X-Com weapons" lol You mean it's less good than my completely intangible pipe dream rifle, where I hold nothing and make pew-pew sounds? As the sole rifle I have, I assure you its performance is significantly higher than no rifle :P

First Aid Kit:
Given that it's so big, 3 uses for healing is rather limited. As it is, you often empty a whole one for a single landed hit (that inflicted 3 fatal wounds).

Van:
Finally finished logistics! Should've done that at the beginning, but I expected it to be a pre-report that would say: "Well, two seater cars suck, we should look into getting something bigger" and unlock the van project :P So I got the van and doubling the team size is quite impressive! Only nitpick: It'd be much better if the crew were facing towards the front of the van for the two at the front and towards the side for the two in the back.

Adding this in the craft ruleset for the van fixed it and made it look like the agents got out properly:
(I made the first one exit from the side, so if you have a dog it'll nicely exit by the driver, not as the driver ;) )
Code: [Select]
    deployment:
      - [4, 3, 0, 0]
      - [4, 6, 0, 4]
      - [5, 3, 0, 1]
      - [5, 6, 0, 3]

Which brings us to: why no dog in the van?! We need them doggies! Otherwise what's the point of having them up for buying? Similarly, it'd be cool to fit 5-6 people in a van (not usually a very difficult thing to do) and have them exiting from the back wouldn't look unrealistic.

Kevlar vest:
Woot! Body armor that actually looks like it'll do something useful. That's awesome. The only thing missing is being able to wear a leather jacket on top of it for looks. Also, why does a kevlar vest make you more vulnerable to fire?

Megascorpion:
It'd be nice if the live study gave the autopsy as well (if there is one). I had to bug out of my one megascorpion encounter as I was getting swarmed. I only grabbed a live one. I wouldn't expect the scientists to release it, so.. Or at least get a corpse from the interrogation like the old option did. (I know it's an engine thing, but still, it would be good for all alien life forms)

X-Com Paranormal Activity Unit:
Someone skilled in both biochemistry and exotic physics? That's a bit much to ask for. It'd be much more likely to find an accountant that's also the quartermaster, or a medical officer that also doubles as the xenobiologist or biochemist, or a xenobiologist that's also a biochemist. Although there's a huge stereotype for the scientist, cutting edge theoretical physics has little to do with biochemistry. Having two different people would be much more credible.

If you want to keep them in the same project, just make them a couple. It's not unlikely for scientists to hook up with other scientists while studying and usually, if one gets a job, the other will be looking for a job in the same location. At my university, it's pretty common for a physicist/biologist couple, since both discipline is dominated by one gender.

Yetis/Wendigo:
WTF?! I had a van show up entirely surrounded by these guys. Decision was made immediately to get the hell outta there, but I played a "what if" just for fun and the whole team couldn't bring one down before getting slaughtered. I guess I was just unlucky with locations and spawn numbers (sometimes there's as few as 1 unit, which might have been manageable), but that was shocking. Cool unit though :) I'm looking forward to facing them again.

Monster-Attacks:
Haven't gone to this one yet (first I see, one battle to finish first) but it sounds particularly scary!

Edit: Completed that monster attack tonight, after fighting the biggest zombie horde I've seen to date. Turned out to be gorilla likes (their movement animation blinks, or sparkles.) in a row of apartment buildings (same terrain as screenshot). I managed to save a few civilians who had the wits to run outside. My best soldier (101 accuracy!) was a hero, ran towards a lady in distress with two gorillas in chase, killed one with an autofire, panicked the second with another burst and help from his partner who also spotted another gorilla rushing out of the building. Sadly, desperate luger sniper fire from the other two agents wounded but didn't kill the 3rd gorilla, who mauled my heroic commissar who died a hero's death. The third gorilla was put down shortly after.

After that, the cleanup crew found another gorilla hidden behind the kitchen sink (like screenshot) and shot at it through the window. Of course, my last shot blew out the window, allowing the gorilla to rush out and hurt (but not kill!) my 2nd best agent who then gave it a good wack with his electric club. Last gorilla was found in a fenced up area with boxes along the fence but no access. Luckily enough fire points to take it out. Too bad I didn't pack tazers for the Jurassic Park-like shooting through the fence ;)

Was fun! Very entertaining (great music again) and I felt like the desperate hero a lot more than in Piratez.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on September 05, 2016, 02:32:07 pm
Just as I get some free time nice surprise: an update!


Howewer I've encountered an issue right from the beginning. I can't start any cult/suspect mission. I get something like this:

OpenXcom Error
OpenXcom has crashed: Map generator encountered an error: no alien units could be placed on the map. Extra information has been saved to openxcom.log. Please report this to the developers.


After some tests i found out, that it only happens if I modify my soldiers name/flag, and only in cult missions. Strange life form works fine


EDIT1: Nope, nothing to do with changing their name or nationality. Must be specific map, bacause some works fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 05, 2016, 04:04:24 pm
Balance question: why tommy gun in all means better than a LMG? More damage, better accuracy, faster.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 06, 2016, 09:36:52 pm
Just as I get some free time nice surprise: an update!


Howewer I've encountered an issue right from the beginning. I can't start any cult/suspect mission. I get something like this:

OpenXcom Error
OpenXcom has crashed: Map generator encountered an error: no alien units could be placed on the map. Extra information has been saved to openxcom.log. Please report this to the developers.


After some tests i found out, that it only happens if I modify my soldiers name/flag, and only in cult missions. Strange life form works fine


EDIT1: Nope, nothing to do with changing their name or nationality. Must be specific map, bacause some works fine.

Yep, me too. OXF shit the bed first mission of a new game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on September 07, 2016, 12:22:16 am
Yep, me too. OXF shit the bed first mission of a new game.

Well I've managed to find a workaround. Try switching places between soldiers in equip craft menu and giving them standard armor(suit). It only affects first cult mission (arrest single suspect) other works fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 08, 2016, 01:20:16 am
Hello and sorry for the absence, I had to take a break from X-Com some stuff to do. :)

Although the small teams make me fear the arbitrary T20 cheat turn quite a lot. Fighting 2 vs 10 wandering enemies is manageable. Past T20, even 2 vs 2 can be really risky. Generally, maps and deployments are small enough that this is no problem though.

There's an old map bug with a blocked door that got me to turn 35 or something (blockage under the cursor), for which I attached a screenshot. Luckily, I could snipe the studs from the wall with my Luger and get to the guy on the other side :D

Thanks, fixed.

Warning: Incoming comments dump!
(These come in the order I noticed things, so it gives a look at my progression too)

Good! ^_^

X-Com Origins:
1 - "since national governments were deemed untrustworthy"
By whom? National governments? I doubt they would consider themselves untrustworthy, but maybe each others. The UN staff? Sure, but how do they make the unit and then go to the governments and say: "Well, it's a UN thing, suck it we don't trust you"? A bit more explanation would be good, and if it is indeed the UN staff who don't trust the government and want to run their own thing, it creates the start of an explanation at the hilariously nerfed state of XCom equipment: The governments wouldn't allow something that they don't have a say in to have much beyond paper pushers.

You're right, this should be written more clearly. To-do list, here I come!

X-Com Global investigation bureau
2 - "seems unusually high and defying scientific explanation"
Being unusually high is quire proper for a spike, that's not really comment worthy. And you mean sociologists studied it and failed to come up with anything? That seems highly unlikely. Maybe say something like: "The first issue to tackle is finding an explanation for a concurrent spike in the number of criminal organizations and religious sects noticeable on every continent."

Sorry, I got too carried away with the cheesy inspirations. :P I'll use your version, it's good.

Stims/Painkillers/Medical Bag/First Aid Kit
Please write down the numbers restored, charges and TU costs. XCom can be a dream for number lovers and not supplying them is akin to not giving damage or TU costs for weapons. It is quite crucial when deciding on what to put in the car.

Yeah, I definintely should. It's a WIP thing. Well, a barely playable alpha. :)

Personal protection/Uncommon weapons:
This is one of the things that annoy me the most in Piratez: Projects that do nothing but unlock other projects. Personal protection cost me 50 scientist-days, to discover that we didn't get kevlar vests (I kinda knew that!) and now my quartermaster is willing to look into it? 50 scientist-days for is a really long time to wait. Same with the guns: I thought "You can order them as normal" meant I could order them from the shop, but nope, gotta research them first.

Hmmm, how about moving the leather coat to personal protection? Would it make it useful enough?
"I'll do what I can to get us some vests, but it'll take time. For now, why don't you try on this fine leather? It's tougher than the suit!"

As for other similar cases, I'll think about it. The early game actually changes a lot.

Leather jacket:
Why wouldn't you wear it? Maybe there's an unlisted downside to it that would be worth saying? So far I've noticed nothing and everybody wears it. What's this constricting thing supposed to mean?

Well, it's a little heavy and has some small debuffs... Yeah, I'll definitely move it to Personal Protection.

Zombies:
These guys need to be more aggressive once they spot you. I've had plenty just mill around instead of charging me, giving me plenty of time to shotgun them instead of being swarmed and having to run away. I thought they were suffering from the "no melee weapon" bug that the megascorpions had before. I had one walk all the way to me, not attack and then walk away, but no, I eventually got a bite. If aggression would make them too dangerous, nerf their mobility. Zombies are typically slow but single minded. These are a bit faster but confused.

This may be related to the (now fixed) melee bug, although I agree they're not very sharp hunters. I've recently decided to make them rarer, because there were just too many missions with them and these missions are relatively long. The problem is, I don't have alternatives, especially for the temperate biome. I need more sprites to make more creatures!

Also, cool music for the alien life forms missions! Perfectly creepy!

Alien Shooter 2, best isometric shooter ever. :) No, really, I recommend it.

Zombie article:
"completely immune to incapacitation" but.. I stunned a few of 'em!

Right, I think it was a leftover.

Also, facing the zombie hordes and completing the autopsy and interrogation could enable the "We need more manpower" project, which would be a shortcut to getting a minivan. Having material unlocks from accomplishing what your main task is (killing/capturing/studying/interrogating aliens and criminals) would be way more satisfying than the two progressions being separated. This way, you can either rush for the material unlocks, or try to do your job before the paperwork and, if you succeed, be rewarded for it.

I don't really understand. Are you saying there should be another path to the van? Or that both paths should be needed? Or that the zombie path should give you some other vehicle?

Black Lotus Follower:
"These low-ranking members of _the_ Black Lotus"
There seems to be a lot of articles missing before proper nouns of organizations in the text.

Well, let me link to my post on Quora (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Indians-have-a-hard-time-with-English-articles/answer/Micha%C5%82-W-Sola%C5%84ski). :)

But I've corrected most cases thanks to Juku's mod.

Also, is that a Cult or a criminal mafia? The article talks like its a cult, but somehow I thought they'd be a Triad. NVM: Found the article about them. If possible, it'd be great if it popped up like some interrogation projects sometimes do.

Maybe I'll add something like this. If I have inspiration. :)

Reports:
Those are lol worthy and add flavor so I like them, but at the same time it leaves me wondering if there's something I should do about them (especially: "if you don't do something about this ruckus, I promise you I WILL, and YOU WILL NOT LIKE IT." but as far as I know, there's nothing I can do, so it ends up leaving a weird powerlessness/disconnection feeling instead of making me feel like part of the organization.

Hmmm, true. Another thing to fix. Or not, I need to think about it. A lot. :)

"Alien Containments"
The idea of separating is cool and sensible, although I was surprised that zombies are animals. I had a zombie mission with a civilian, which I sent a team from a base without prison/pen and I got a missing string (STR_ALIEN_DIES_NO_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT_FACILITY I think? It was so long parts of it were chopped.)

Well, Zombies are more animals than humans. They're mindless, resilient and strong, so putting them in cages seems more logical. They are not humans; they are human corpses at best. I'll actually add it to the description.

Small shotgun and Luger:
Those have become my mainstay. At 70 firing accuracy (you get that fast with the gym, I'd slow training down if possible), Lugers have good damage (the best you've got?) and great accuracy. Combine with the small shotgun for close up work and you get a great setup for your operatives. I've had wonderful results pinging away at advancing zombie hordes and finishing them off with a shotgun when they get close. Even had one operative take out a few Black Lotus monks and ninja-wannabes alone when I forgot his partner was wounded and sent him alone. Given these, I haven't really felt the need for different weapons, except I'd love a proper rifle.

Well, shotguns got good with the new mechanic. :) They've been balanced many times, so now at least they work. I still mostly perfer pistols though, but that's me.
Gym training may be slowed, but i'm torn on this; having badass agents is a nice experience too. To be decided.

Promotion I:
Cool! I've shown that there's a real threat. Now they take me more seriously so I can get some better stuff. Erhm.. I finally have permition to go to the local gun shop and get a hunting rifle? *Woot!* But I still can't rent a van or get body armor, or much or anything more useful than I already got.. It would feel a lot better to get promoted if promotion through official channels unlocked some legit stuff (police grade stuff?) or something, not the permission to improvise and buy civilian stuff. That kind of improvisation should be left for unofficial, shady work.

Would you prefer Logistics and such to be prerequisites for Promotion I? ;)
No, seriously. I'm not sure what else I can do with this model. I'm open to suggestions, I think there's potential here.

Also, I assume it unlocks harder missions? Or something else did because shortly after I got missions against whole groups in houses in the middle of nowhere that were probably not quite meant to be tackled by two agents with Lugers. Maybe these missions could get a slightly different name (If "suspect apprehension" is the one vs 2 enemies, maybe "safehouse bust" or something could be these?) so we can distinguish them and send proper teams.

The "apprehension" mission was added at the last minute to make an easier start, so the houses are actually your "level 0" threat. ;) Sure, they can be hard to win against, but you can still try!

Hunting Rifle:
"its overall performance is significantly lower than analogous X-Com weapons" lol You mean it's less good than my completely intangible pipe dream rifle, where I hold nothing and make pew-pew sounds? As the sole rifle I have, I assure you its performance is significantly higher than no rifle :P

Lol, good point. A leftover from FMP.
But in my file it says "analogous military weapons", so I must've changed it at some point recently. :)

First Aid Kit:
Given that it's so big, 3 uses for healing is rather limited. As it is, you often empty a whole one for a single landed hit (that inflicted 3 fatal wounds).

Well, what else can you do? It's the 90's, and you're piss poor! :)
So, works as required.

Van:
Finally finished logistics! Should've done that at the beginning, but I expected it to be a pre-report that would say: "Well, two seater cars suck, we should look into getting something bigger" and unlock the van project :P So I got the van and doubling the team size is quite impressive! Only nitpick: It'd be much better if the crew were facing towards the front of the van for the two at the front and towards the side for the two in the back.

Sure, why not. Thanks for the code.

Which brings us to: why no dog in the van?!

Because I haven't finished it yet, okay!? :)
No, seriously, I'm in the process of making a dog soldier type. They'll be able to do everything dogs do.

Kevlar vest:
Woot! Body armor that actually looks like it'll do something useful. That's awesome. The only thing missing is being able to wear a leather jacket on top of it for looks. Also, why does a kevlar vest make you more vulnerable to fire?

I... can't remember. Need to ask Dioxine, we've probably discussed it and found a Super Important Reason. :P

Megascorpion:
It'd be nice if the live study gave the autopsy as well (if there is one). I had to bug out of my one megascorpion encounter as I was getting swarmed. I only grabbed a live one. I wouldn't expect the scientists to release it, so.. Or at least get a corpse from the interrogation like the old option did. (I know it's an engine thing, but still, it would be good for all alien life forms)

OK, I'll look into it.

X-Com Paranormal Activity Unit:
Someone skilled in both biochemistry and exotic physics? That's a bit much to ask for. It'd be much more likely to find an accountant that's also the quartermaster, or a medical officer that also doubles as the xenobiologist or biochemist, or a xenobiologist that's also a biochemist. Although there's a huge stereotype for the scientist, cutting edge theoretical physics has little to do with biochemistry. Having two different people would be much more credible.

It's mostly a casting issue, the guy already has little to do (for now). And to be honest it was a bit of a parody of the omniscientist trope.

If you want to keep them in the same project, just make them a couple. It's not unlikely for scientists to hook up with other scientists while studying and usually, if one gets a job, the other will be looking for a job in the same location. At my university, it's pretty common for a physicist/biologist couple, since both discipline is dominated by one gender.

Hey, this actually is a cute idea!

Yetis/Wendigo:
WTF?! I had a van show up entirely surrounded by these guys. Decision was made immediately to get the hell outta there, but I played a "what if" just for fun and the whole team couldn't bring one down before getting slaughtered. I guess I was just unlucky with locations and spawn numbers (sometimes there's as few as 1 unit, which might have been manageable), but that was shocking. Cool unit though :) I'm looking forward to facing them again.

Yeah, very unlucky :) Normally there's like, two.

Edit: Completed that monster attack tonight, after fighting the biggest zombie horde I've seen to date. Turned out to be gorilla likes (their movement animation blinks, or sparkles.)

Yeah, I've spent hours cleaning the sprites, still not how it should be. :/

in a row of apartment buildings (same terrain as screenshot). I managed to save a few civilians who had the wits to run outside. My best soldier (101 accuracy!) was a hero, ran towards a lady in distress with two gorillas in chase, killed one with an autofire, panicked the second with another burst and help from his partner who also spotted another gorilla rushing out of the building. Sadly, desperate luger sniper fire from the other two agents wounded but didn't kill the 3rd gorilla, who mauled my heroic commissar who died a hero's death. The third gorilla was put down shortly after.

After that, the cleanup crew found another gorilla hidden behind the kitchen sink (like screenshot) and shot at it through the window. Of course, my last shot blew out the window, allowing the gorilla to rush out and hurt (but not kill!) my 2nd best agent who then gave it a good wack with his electric club. Last gorilla was found in a fenced up area with boxes along the fence but no access. Luckily enough fire points to take it out. Too bad I didn't pack tazers for the Jurassic Park-like shooting through the fence ;)

Was fun! Very entertaining (great music again) and I felt like the desperate hero a lot more than in Piratez.

Thanks for the input! You know, this REALLY helps. And I promise to work hard on this! :)

@Kazek, HelmetHair: Regarding the crashing map issue: can I have a save please? I haven't encountered this bug.
And SORRY.

Balance question: why tommy gun in all means better than a LMG? More damage, better accuracy, faster.

It's not so bad, but yeah, I'll nerf it a bit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 08, 2016, 02:36:36 am
Nice! Response to my feedback! I'm happy to contribute to what is shaping up to be a great mod, given that it is already pretty entertaining. Don't worry about all the "why doesn't this work like that?!" stuff, it's nmostly meant as a "is this on the to-do list? Because if not I think it would be nice".

Hmmm, how about moving the leather coat to personal protection? Would it make it useful enough?
"I'll do what I can to get us some vests, but it'll take time. For now, why don't you try on this fine leather? It's tougher than the suit!"

As for other similar cases, I'll think about it. The early game actually changes a lot.

Well, it's a little heavy and has some small debuffs... Yeah, I'll definitely move it to Personal Protection.
Yeah, leather coat from personal protection would alleviate the "researching to unlock research" feeling. I'd also list whatever the downsides of the leather coat are in the description if possible, like Piratez does. From the ufopedia, it looks like a pure upgrade even if the text makes you feel like there's a (hiddeb) catch.

Quote
This may be related to the (now fixed) melee bug, although I agree they're not very sharp hunters. I've recently decided to make them rarer, because there were just too many missions with them and these missions are relatively long. The problem is, I don't have alternatives, especially for the temperate biome. I need more sprites to make more creatures!
Interesting, I saw them in the Arctic the most. I assumed it was going to be some kind of "biochemical research base on Greenland gets compromised and lets lose viral zombie plague" story arc. It's funny to learn they're mostly temperate enemies. I actually enjoy the zombie missions as a kind of "do you have enough damage per turn to keep the horde away" which usually is very tense at the beginning and then gets better. It's also great shooting xp.

I compiled an executable when you released 0.3, so it shouldn't have any melee issue. As I said, I'd up aggression and lower TUs to really make it an oncoming horde instead of a sort of hesitating to come this way horde. And having thought about it, I think that as aliens get wounded, they might be more likely to sulk away than try to rush you? Since I always shoot the closest zombie first, it might be why they look indecisive.. Maybe that's something aggression would fix?

Quote
I don't really understand. Are you saying there should be another path to the van? Or that both paths should be needed? Or that the zombie path should give you some other vehicle?

Yes, I think it would be cool to have multiple paths to the same tech. The more rapid, direct "paper pusher/bureaucracy" path you have now, which allows a dependable path to a given tech, and the "dedicated agent" path, where you get rewarded for fighting the enemy instead of fighting the bureaucracy.

Using the van as an example, you could:
A: bit and moan to your supervisor from day 1 that a car and 2 agents isn't enough, until they finally give in and allow you tu use vans.
B: take to the field in the stupid tiny car that your boss is saying is all you can use, kill 17 zombies and, now having the evidence that the job out there is crazy, convince him that you need a bigger transport/field team.

Currently, option A is available: your research team spends their time fighting the bureaucracy instead of researching the alien threat (a bad thing!). But option B: killing aliens and researching them (a good thing! Which should allow you to gain leverage as you are performing and showing evidence to support your existence) isn't there. So you actually get more rewarded for not doing your job!

Similarly, capture and interrogation of a few different human factions (say 3?) should unlock kevlar vests. Your agents are obviously engaging in firefights and you now uncovered significant threats in those networks, so you use that leverage to gain more hardware, instead of, once again, using your support staff to bitch and moan that you need more equipment without doing anything useful.

This rewards active play: going out there and capturing enemies and researching them, instead of passive play: staying put and just waiting for vans and kevlar vests.

Quote
Well, let me link to my post on Quora (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Indians-have-a-hard-time-with-English-articles/answer/Micha%C5%82-W-Sola%C5%84ski). :)

But I've corrected most cases thanks to Juku's mod.

Interesting read. English is also my 2nd language so articles are quite intuitive to me. Although I'm learning German now and if English articles annoy you, I can suggest you don't try it ;P I'm happy to help with article writing/proofreading if you'd like.

Quote
Well, shotguns got good with the new mechanic. :) They've been balanced many times, so now at least they work. I still mostly perfer pistols though, but that's me.
Gym training may be slowed, but i'm torn on this; having badass agents is a nice experience too. To be decided.
Shotguns being decent isn't a bad thing, and I'm not sure it has to do with the fix, but rather with the availability of enemies with low armor. Short range bursts are great against many enemies, like zombies, gorillas and basic humans which is refreshing.

As for the gym, it's fairly quick to get quite a few agents in bases and with the small team size, get a lot of spares which do nothing but train. To the point that losing good field agents doesn't really hurt even though rookies suck when you buy them, they train to pretty decent stats by the time you need them. Feeling the hurt when losing a good agent is quintessential to XCom for me.

Quote
Would you prefer Logistics and such to be prerequisites for Promotion I? ;)
God no! Promotions should be based on your field achievements, not how much whining you had your research staff do to get more stuff. What I am advocating is in fact the exact opposite: Promotion should give the basic gear (logistics, protection and medecine) if you don't have them advocating ready. This way, you have a choice: play cautious and fight the bureaucracy for good stuff before going to the field (earlier good stuff but slower promotion) OR going to the field with whatever you have and bringing back proof with bullets whistling by/crazy alien beasts yapping at your heels like the dutyful badass you are, plonking the reports with pictures on the council's (or whoever it is that doesn't want you to use vans and kevlar vests) desk and getting what you need to keep doing the job they can't deny needs doing anymore (so captures gets you promotes which gets you stuff, meaning you get stuff later but you get the whole stuff+promotion faster).

Quote
The "apprehension" mission was added at the last minute to make an easier start, so the houses are actually your "level 0" threat. ;) Sure, they can be hard to win against, but you can still try!
Oh, don't worry I did try! My agents are no cowards! The jump from 2 to 8 is is a bit harsh but it's manageable. Mostly I was asking if there's supposed to be a clue to differentiate the two types of missions as I failed to do so. I'd love to be able to tell so I can get the two guys with my newbies and take out the house with my A-team. Also it'd be nice if there were some document or something to loot from those houses. Either quick study flavor text or stuff that actually gets you somewhere in the story ark. It's manageable to kill 'em all by staying far and shooting but capturing one of the 1-2 special guys that spawn (and usually are too deadly to not fire at) has proven impossible to me so far.

Quote
Because I haven't finished it yet, okay!? :)
No, seriously, I'm in the process of making a dog soldier type. They'll be able to do everything dogs do.
Cool! As I said, ignore me when I ask for something that's already on the to-do ;) or at best move it higher on the list :D

Quote
It's mostly a casting issue, the guy already has little to do (for now). And to be honest it was a bit of a parody of the omniscientist trope.

Hey, this actually is a cute idea!
Glad you like the idea. Could be an interesting way to make fun of the trope by looking for both qualifications in one person, not finding it because it's unrealistic but finding a couple that fits. Employ both part-time (hey, they're young post-docs that have a thing for ufos/aliens, they'd work for food and shelter if that's all you offered them). Then, as the job evolves you can promote them to full time ;)

Quote
Thanks for the input! You know, this REALLY helps. And I promise to work hard on this! :)

I'm glad you like it. I'll keep posting :)

Let me know if I can help with anything not picture/map related (I'd love to, but I'm really not a sprite artist and map view doesn't work on Linux). I think I should be able to get rulesets to do pretty much whatever one needs it to within OXCE+'s significant capabilities.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on September 08, 2016, 11:59:56 am

@Kazek, HelmetHair: Regarding the crashing map issue: can I have a save please? I haven't encountered this bug.
And SORRY.

No problem! Here it comes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 08, 2016, 07:48:28 pm
I compiled an executable when you released 0.3, so it shouldn't have any melee issue. As I said, I'd up aggression and lower TUs to really make it an oncoming horde instead of a sort of hesitating to come this way horde. And having thought about it, I think that as aliens get wounded, they might be more likely to sulk away than try to rush you? Since I always shoot the closest zombie first, it might be why they look indecisive.. Maybe that's something aggression would fix?

Unlikely, since they already have aggression 5 - the highest in vanilla being 2...
But I changed it to 6, we'll see what happens! :P

Yes, I think it would be cool to have multiple paths to the same tech. The more rapid, direct "paper pusher/bureaucracy" path you have now, which allows a dependable path to a given tech, and the "dedicated agent" path, where you get rewarded for fighting the enemy instead of fighting the bureaucracy.

Using the van as an example, you could:
A: bit and moan to your supervisor from day 1 that a car and 2 agents isn't enough, until they finally give in and allow you tu use vans.
B: take to the field in the stupid tiny car that your boss is saying is all you can use, kill 17 zombies and, now having the evidence that the job out there is crazy, convince him that you need a bigger transport/field team.

Currently, option A is available: your research team spends their time fighting the bureaucracy instead of researching the alien threat (a bad thing!). But option B: killing aliens and researching them (a good thing! Which should allow you to gain leverage as you are performing and showing evidence to support your existence) isn't there. So you actually get more rewarded for not doing your job!

Similarly, capture and interrogation of a few different human factions (say 3?) should unlock kevlar vests. Your agents are obviously engaging in firefights and you now uncovered significant threats in those networks, so you use that leverage to gain more hardware, instead of, once again, using your support staff to bitch and moan that you need more equipment without doing anything useful.

This rewards active play: going out there and capturing enemies and researching them, instead of passive play: staying put and just waiting for vans and kevlar vests.

This is good in theory, but I don't think it's doable without mutually-exclusive research (which may happen some day). You shouldn't get Logistics from somewhere else and have the same article with The Accountant rambling about how she's working her ass off (like usual). At least I don't think it'd look good; maybe I can restructure it somehow.

Also a side note: you're not forbidden from using vans, you just don't have the infrastructure. Because if you had the van from the beginning, people wouldn't use the car. Yeah, it's gamey...

Interesting read. English is also my 2nd language so articles are quite intuitive to me. Although I'm learning German now and if English articles annoy you, I can suggest you don't try it ;P

I remember this two-verse gem, in Polish:

Gdyby nie to der, die, das,
Byłby ze mnie Niemiec w czas!

Which roughly means,

If it wasn't for this der, die, das,
I'd be a German in no time!

:)

Shotguns being decent isn't a bad thing, and I'm not sure it has to do with the fix, but rather with the availability of enemies with low armor. Short range bursts are great against many enemies, like zombies, gorillas and basic humans which is refreshing.

Good.

God no! Promotions should be based on your field achievements, not how much whining you had your research staff do to get more stuff. What I am advocating is in fact the exact opposite: Promotion should give the basic gear (logistics, protection and medecine) if you don't have them advocating ready.

But would you research them at all, knowing you can get them for free later? I just... don't know.

Oh, don't worry I did try! My agents are no cowards! The jump from 2 to 8 is is a bit harsh but it's manageable. Mostly I was asking if there's supposed to be a clue to differentiate the two types of missions as I failed to do so.

Well, one is called "Cult Apprehension", but the other is "Cult Activity Investigation"... Unless I misunderstand...?

Also it'd be nice if there were some document or something to loot from those houses. Either quick study flavor text or stuff that actually gets you somewhere in the story ark.

Yeah, it'd be nice. I'll think about it :)

And thanks for the offer to help! I'm afraid I might actually act upon it... :)

No problem! Here it comes.

I tried it and I started the mission with no problems.
Try disabling Commmendations maybe?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 08, 2016, 10:11:03 pm
First off, my apologies for the bad phone use in the previous post. Rereading some of the quotes you are responding to is humiliating! I'll try to do better next time! (On a computer this time, so hopefully it's better)

Unlikely, since they already have aggression 5 - the highest in vanilla being 2...
But I changed it to 6, we'll see what happens! :P
Oh wow! I think there's some kind of AI log to find out why enemies do what they do, but my computer can barely handle OXC(E+) already.. I am increasingly feeling like it's just some self preservation thing that is preventing the wounded zombies from rushing the van, for which there might not be a solution. And it's probably fine if that's what it is, they got some bits blown up and are now crashing about :) It's just hard to tell given the engine.

Quote
This is good in theory, but I don't think it's doable without mutually-exclusive research (which may happen some day). You shouldn't get Logistics from somewhere else and have the same article with The Accountant rambling about how she's working her ass off (like usual). At least I don't think it'd look good; maybe I can restructure it somehow.
hum.. yes, the implementation could be a bit difficult now that you mention it.. :P I didn't think of the Logistics topic remaining there despite it leading nowhere if you already got the van from zombies. I'll try to think of a way. I feel like there might be one (something totally wonky with requires/unlocks!)

Quote
Also a side note: you're not forbidden from using vans, you just don't have the infrastructure. Because if you had the van from the beginning, people wouldn't use the car. Yeah, it's gamey...
The infrastructure? What infrastructure do you need to rent a van? I do it every time I move and I'm no UN agent :P My thought was that the countries didn't want any UN "rogue" agents wandering their territory, and eventually accepted two. Then after enough "work" by the logistics officer, they decided to accept teams of 4. Hence my suggestion that it should be tied to encountering "mobs" of aliens/weird units.

Basically, your two agents go in the field (because that's all that the countries allow you to deploy in their country), find crazy stuff, and you go back to the countries and say: Look, people: There's wacky dangerous stuff you don't want the public to know about, here's some proof *put down reports on table* BUT the good news is we're here to take care of it with specialized people, just let us deploy teams that are big enough to do so.

Maybe the solution is to tie the two together: Logistics requires you to complete a few autopsies first, and the officer uses them as leverage to get the countries to accept teams of 4 agents on their territory?

Quote
I remember this two-verse gem, in Polish:

Gdyby nie to der, die, das,
Byłby ze mnie Niemiec w czas!

Which roughly means,

If it wasn't for this der, die, das,
I'd be a German in no time!

:)
Haha! It's nice to see I'm not the only one thinking that!

Quote
But would you research them at all, knowing you can get them for free later? I just... don't know.
Well, do you want a van today or wait until you complete X autopsies + Y interrogations (which means getting all those with your tiny 2 agent teams!)? I think it could be made such that either choice is valid, depending on the player preference. I'd go for the 2 agents teams, I'd bet others would go for the tech (like how people rush tech in other XCom games).

Quote
Well, one is called "Cult Apprehension", but the other is "Cult Activity Investigation"... Unless I misunderstand...?
Seriously? I must not have paid attention.. I could never remember which one I encountered last, so I assumed it was always the same. I need to pay attention, gaming is serious and my agents wellbeing is at stake!

Quote
Yeah, it'd be nice. I'll think about it :)

And thanks for the offer to help! I'm afraid I might actually act upon it... :)

Whatever you need, even if it's just chains of random fluff article to give in those missions! Just no graphic stuff, since then I'll have to decline any ways :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 08, 2016, 10:37:42 pm
Yeah, a political reason behind no-van-allowed makes more sense.

Now for a break, something fun happened. I wrote some description for Cyberweb weapons, added them, released them with 0.3... And then I found descriptions of the very same items I wrote two months ago, which was completely forgotten. So I had the rare privilege of comparing my work with my own. :D
It struck me how similar both versions were, and I'd like to share the Cyberweb Battery description:

The old version:
Quote
High-powered Cyberweb equipment relies on special batteries that seem to employ some very exotic physics. They do not contain any energy source as such, instead they are able to draw power from some unclear outside source - possibly another dimension. The battery is not forever though: its structure easily crumbles under strain, only allowing for some energy to be transfered before they burn up. Overall the device seems rather experimental, but is very impressive.{NEWLINE}The battery comes in several types, depending on the equipment it is supposed to power. We can reconfigure them if we need to.

The new version:
Quote
This wondrous device is used to power various Cyberweb equipment. The battery does not contain any power source; instead it uses some sort of interdimensional suction to procure the energy from some other plane, possibly another universe. It is not, however, eternal, as the mechanism is delicate and breaks down quickly. On the positive side, the battery is completely invisible to all forms of energy detection, unless it is active.{NEWLINE}The same Cyberweb battery can be used to power various weapons and equipment, but each time it must be calibrated for a particular device. Various configurations are color-coded.

See? It's exactly the same description, sentence after sentence, only with different words. Either I am a very boring person or one with very clear vision. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: The Think Tank on September 09, 2016, 01:39:25 am
Hi Sorch! Still really enjoying the mod so far, and most of my issues with it are only aesthetics and stuff, so you have nailed the gameplay aspect! Congrats for that! Now, there are a few weapon skins (that I have seen thus far) that I think could do with a skin change, the most odd one for me is the HK MP5 (which, in my opinion, is a kinda funky sprite atm). I would suggest using some skins from the brilliant Kappa Weapons to replace the more military skins we have in game (such as, if there is an M-16, M-4, MP5 etc.) as these feel like much closer sprites to their original thing, just my opinion though. (Kappa Weapons: https://www.openxcom.com/mod/kappa-weapons-wip)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 09, 2016, 02:03:59 am
@Solarius: Someone has a clear vision of what he wants in the mod! Impressive!

@Think Tank: More accurate sprites would be good, as would having different sprites from Piratez to further differentiate the mods. Good idea! But I feel like those are very blurry, or fuzzy. I don't know if they would really be worthy replacements.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 09, 2016, 02:23:42 am
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll always upgrade graphics of course, when possible. I'll have a look at these, but during weekend. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on September 09, 2016, 09:41:25 am
Hi Sorch! Still really enjoying the mod so far, and most of my issues with it are only aesthetics and stuff, so you have nailed the gameplay aspect! Congrats for that! Now, there are a few weapon skins (that I have seen thus far) that I think could do with a skin change, the most odd one for me is the HK MP5 (which, in my opinion, is a kinda funky sprite atm). I would suggest using some skins from the brilliant Kappa Weapons to replace the more military skins we have in game (such as, if there is an M-16, M-4, MP5 etc.) as these feel like much closer sprites to their original thing, just my opinion though. (Kappa Weapons: https://www.openxcom.com/mod/kappa-weapons-wip)

@Solarius: Someone has a clear vision of what he wants in the mod! Impressive!

@Think Tank: More accurate sprites would be good, as would having different sprites from Piratez to further differentiate the mods. Good idea! But I feel like those are very blurry, or fuzzy. I don't know if they would really be worthy replacements.

Agree on both points :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: The Think Tank on September 11, 2016, 06:53:02 am
Agree on both points :)
Yeah, the sprites are fuzzy and some have problems in the UFOpedia, but if fixed and tweaked a bit I think they would lend themselves very nicely to the X-Files appeal. Also, may just be a personal thing but the Magnum sprite is seriously bugging me, I changed it out but I do think it has a ton of potential, if it just looked a little..."cleaner"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: niculinux on September 11, 2016, 02:21:17 pm
I like new magnum also because it's more in tune with kappa weapons mod, hopefully imwish it will ben jncorporated into the mod...also a youtube playthrough would be vveeeery interesting, hope someone is also...i'm out of time to start one :, (
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 11, 2016, 05:56:17 pm
Encountered constant CTD.
Log:
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: code 0xc0000005
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   StackWalk64 failed: 299

I think it is connected to one of HQ's mission.
After a day or week after save.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 11, 2016, 09:18:08 pm
Encountered constant CTD.
Log:
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: code 0xc0000005
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[11-09-2016 17:59:26]   [FATAL]   StackWalk64 failed: 299

I think it is connected to one of HQ's mission.
After a day or week after save.

Yeah, sorry about that. Hotfix attached.

EDIT: I checked the kappa weapons and indeed, they need some work. I'm not even sure they're usable at all, since they are drawn completely differently from the vanilla weapons; they are all thin and long, and it makes them very low detail. They wouldn't mix well with XCF, or even vanilla.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on September 15, 2016, 12:36:26 pm
Played until "Promotion 2". Few quick thoughts.

- Front of the car is not a cover, it's stay like that ? Either way is fine for me, just curious.
- Like these small starting urban missions. Before (0.2) my first field mission was after logistic, now (0.3) i had lot of fun from the beggining.

Bad game pace becous of :
- OP Luger, it's better than sniper rifle, aimed should be around ~75% and power bonus should be lower too
- maybe becouse of OP Luger but there was no better weapons until "Promotion 2", maybe add something better at "Promotion 1"
-Dragonfly, from 4 to 8 or 7 men and drone/dog it's quite a boost, maybe add 6 men vehicle around "Promotion 1" extend time to "Promotion 2" and add dragonfly around then.
- I said it before but gym is OP. Soldiers in gym gain stats to fast and even when they are going on the mission. Around "Promotion 2" i had a lot of good soldiers with 110-120 accuracy. Lower stat gain and maybe allow only 1 gym for base if possible. Or it could train soldiers only to 99 in stats if possible. For me gym should train medicore/good soldiers not superhumans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 15, 2016, 12:50:28 pm
Played until "Promotion 2". Few quick thoughts.

Thanks.

- Front of the car is not a cover, it's stay like that ? Either way is fine for me, just curious.

It's a low cover. The problem is not with the tile, but with OpenXCom aiming algorithm, which is imperfect.

- Like these small starting urban missions. Before (0.2) my first field mission was after logistic, now (0.3) i had lot of fun from the beggining.

Yeah, it's a new thing, to make the beginning more approachable.

Bad game pace becous of :
- OP Luger, it's better than sniper rifle, aimed should be around ~75% and power bonus should be lower too

I'd rather make it more rare, or appear later.

- maybe becouse of OP Luger but there was no better weapons until "Promotion 2", maybe add something better at "Promotion 1"

You mean a pistol? Like a Luger lite?

-Dragonfly, from 4 to 8 or 7 men and drone/dog it's quite a boost, maybe add 6 men vehicle around "Promotion 1" extend time to "Promotion 2" and add dragonfly around then.

Maybe, but I don't have such plans right now.

- I said it before but gym is OP. Soldiers in gym gain stats to fast and even when they are going on the mission. Around "Promotion 2" i had a lot of good soldiers with 110-120 accuracy. Lower stat gain and maybe allow only 1 gym for base if possible. Or it could train soldiers only to 99 in stats if possible. For me gym should train medicore/good soldiers not superhumans.

I'm planning to add training caps for stats. You won't be able to train over a certain level, battle experience only. But I need to test it first, get a better feel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 15, 2016, 05:29:25 pm
Nooo! Don't nerf my Luger! :P Actually, it is quite OP and overshadows pretty much everything else except at extreme close range (where autoshots or shotguns are better) or extreme long range (where hunter rifle wins by accuracy). I don't know if making it rare would improve things, or just make it more unrealistic. I would suggest a damage scaling that doesn't increase linearly with firing accuracy, to eventually cap the max damage. Firing quickly is the point of pistols, so increasing TUs should only be done a bit, maybe. Accuracy could also be lowered (or maybe aimRange decreased for all pistols?) to let rifles be the better medium range weapons. Another option could be to lower power past a certain range for pistols, although I don't know how realistic that would be.

I think having a better rifle after Promotion I, to start to properly arm your agents, would be good. At that point, you start to be almost on par with the police and may well have multiple bases already. I got something I can't remember the name of (uses the BlackMarch sprite from Piratez), which turned out to be better at close range thanks to autofire, but worse at high range because of the TU cost of aimed shot and lower accuracy. In general, I think 2H weapons should do better at longer range than pistols, so higher aim shot accuracy and aimRange could help take away the Luger king of sniping. Pistols should be the kings of ~15 tiles range (fast for higher movement combat, and more accurate than autoshots at that range) with rifle snapshots as a close second, ~10 tiles for rifle autoshots, ~5 tiles  for shotguns, > 25 for rifles aimed shot.

Training caps for the gym would indeed be pretty sensible. Something like.. actualy stat caps for strength and stamina (you can definitely train that to monstrous level in a gym), ~80 Firing and Melee, ~85% of stat cap TUs (part of the challenge in battle comes from the stress and movement, which you need to experience to get). That way, veterans from the field can keep an edge over rookies with gym training instead of all agents being interchangeable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 15, 2016, 07:32:38 pm
Many thanks for taking your time to talk about this!

Nooo! Don't nerf my Luger! :P Actually, it is quite OP and overshadows pretty much everything else except at extreme close range (where autoshots or shotguns are better) or extreme long range (where hunter rifle wins by accuracy). I don't know if making it rare would improve things, or just make it more unrealistic. I would suggest a damage scaling that doesn't increase linearly with firing accuracy, to eventually cap the max damage. Firing quickly is the point of pistols, so increasing TUs should only be done a bit, maybe. Accuracy could also be lowered (or maybe aimRange decreased for all pistols?) to let rifles be the better medium range weapons. Another option could be to lower power past a certain range for pistols, although I don't know how realistic that would be.

The problem is that I actually like Luger, I mean a weapon with this profile. I could nerf the Luger, but then I'd have to introduce another similar weapon, so the problem will remain (although not necessarily with the 'more unrealistic' part). I can tighten the range though, and maybe make it a bit slower.
Thoughts?

I think having a better rifle after Promotion I, to start to properly arm your agents, would be good. At that point, you start to be almost on par with the police and may well have multiple bases already. I got something I can't remember the name of (uses the BlackMarch sprite from Piratez),

Perhaps you mean HKMP5? Because the Blackmarch SMG uses HKMP5 sprite. :P
Yeah, it's good. I think it reflects its real counterpart rather well.

which turned out to be better at close range thanks to autofire, but worse at high range because of the TU cost of aimed shot and lower accuracy. In general, I think 2H weapons should do better at longer range than pistols, so higher aim shot accuracy and aimRange could help take away the Luger king of sniping.

Is increasing range for all SMGs what you have in mind? Because it's a ~possibility.

Training caps for the gym would indeed be pretty sensible. Something like.. actualy stat caps for strength and stamina (you can definitely train that to monstrous level in a gym), ~80 Firing and Melee, ~85% of stat cap TUs (part of the challenge in battle comes from the stress and movement, which you need to experience to get). That way, veterans from the field can keep an edge over rookies with gym training instead of all agents being interchangeable.

Something like this, yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 15, 2016, 08:19:45 pm
Many thanks for taking your time to talk about this!
You're welcome! I wasn't entirely sure it was ready to play beyond Promotion I, but I see I was overly conservative. I will be playing some more soon for sure.

Quote
The problem is that I actually like Luger, I mean a weapon with this profile. I could nerf the Luger, but then I'd have to introduce another similar weapon, so the problem will remain (although not necessarily with the 'more unrealistic' part). I can tighten the range though, and maybe make it a bit slower.
Thoughts?
Hey, I love the Luger too. Didn't I say so in my impression dump? The problem is that it's better than everything else except at really long or really short ranges, which is maybe a bit too useful ;) This is especially true given how easy it currently is to get agents with 90+ accuracy. To me, it's almost fine, and decreasing pistol aim ranges to 25 (default dropoff is what? 2% per tile, so that's 10% less accuracy at range, and actually increasing the accuracy loss to 3. So gradual nerf from 25 and 15% drop in accuracy past 30 tiles). I like the TU cost at 32%, to get 3 aimed shots if stationary and that seems to be a design decision for pistols. I was going to suggest a slight nerf in damage, but after comparing expected damage between it and the magnum, it seems pretty fine.

Quote
Perhaps you mean HKMP5? Because the Blackmarch SMG uses HKMP5 sprite. :P
Yeah, it's good. I think it reflects its real counterpart rather well.
Yes, now that you say the name, I recognize it. I was initially not very impressed, but after trying it (I wanted a rifle damnit!), it is nice.

Quote
Is increasing range for all SMGs what you have in mind? Because it's a ~possibility.
It depends on what you intend to do with pistols. It feels like two handed weapon should be more accurate at longer range than a pistol. I suggested a pistol range nerf above. Increasing the range of SMGs could work too, maybe. In my experience, most fights happen in < 30 tiles, so giving things abilities to reach much beyond 30 tiles does not change much (except for sniper/HMG type weapons, where being stationary and reaching all the way across the map is the point). As such, I think reducing pistol ranges is more effective than increasing SMG range, because it makes pistols less good in parts of the fighting distances, instead of making SMGs better in ranges that aren't really all that relevant.

Quote
Something like this, yes.
Glad you like it :)

Edit: one thing I forgot to say: I find it very odd to see these pistols with 30+ damage, up to 38 damage in the early game, but not finding rifles with at least equivalent damage, if not better.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 15, 2016, 11:51:51 pm
Hey, I love the Luger too. Didn't I say so in my impression dump? The problem is that it's better than everything else except at really long or really short ranges, which is maybe a bit too useful ;) This is especially true given how easy it currently is to get agents with 90+ accuracy. To me, it's almost fine, and decreasing pistol aim ranges to 25 (default dropoff is what? 2% per tile, so that's 10% less accuracy at range, and actually increasing the accuracy loss to 3. So gradual nerf from 25 and 15% drop in accuracy past 30 tiles). I like the TU cost at 32%, to get 3 aimed shots if stationary and that seems to be a design decision for pistols. I was going to suggest a slight nerf in damage, but after comparing expected damage between it and the magnum, it seems pretty fine.

To quote the classic: "Yes, I have bankai. You want bankai? Here's bankai. BANKAI!" (https://youtu.be/h9W__HA-3UU)
Now most pistols have range of either 20 or 25. We'll see how it plays.

Edit: one thing I forgot to say: I find it very odd to see these pistols with 30+ damage, up to 38 damage in the early game, but not finding rifles with at least equivalent damage, if not better.

OK, I'll think about it, but it's not bad on principle. I mean, you're a detective...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 16, 2016, 12:38:07 am
Sounds good!

Also, I have no opposition to having crappy equipment, especially at the beginning, because we're detectives and not soldiers. That's totally fine. But, regardless of who are firing them, are rifles really weaker than pistols? In the sense of being hit by an AK-47 bullet being less of a problem than being hit by a pistol of some kind? I don't know much about weapons, admittedly, but I thought that rifles would be at least on par with pistols, if not more powerful. Admittedly, maybe I'm comparing only low power rifles to high power pistols, given that my selection of rifles is much much smaller than my selection of pistols.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on September 16, 2016, 12:59:00 am
Sounds good!

Also, I have no opposition to having crappy equipment, especially at the beginning, because we're detectives and not soldiers. That's totally fine. But, regardless of who are firing them, are rifles really weaker than pistols? In the sense of being hit by an AK-47 bullet being less of a problem than being hit by a pistol of some kind? I don't know much about weapons, admittedly, but I thought that rifles would be at least on par with pistols, if not more powerful. Admittedly, maybe I'm comparing only low power rifles to high power pistols, given that my selection of rifles is much much smaller than my selection of pistols.


If you want to bring a little real-world into it...  It can matter, indeed... 

There was a problem in Afghanistan that high-powered rifles that were intended for use against Body armour, were essentially hitting unarmoured people, making a tiny entrance wound, passing through, and leaving a tiny exit wound - hurting, but not appreciably stopping said unarmoured person...

Whereas a lower speed Pistol (or more commonly, a lower powered tumbling-round rifle) did much more *damage* by either remaining in the target, or making larger exit wounds......

So yes, paradoxically, a lot of rifles WILL do less damage to someone than a Pistol of the appreciable calibre, because the speed and flight characteristics of the bullets themselves are fundamentally different.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 16, 2016, 01:16:25 am
That could be a very interesting twist to take with it: Give SMGs and rifles some armor penetration, but lower "raw" damage than pistols to represent the effect you describe. It would be a side way of making (army-type) rifles stand up to pistols.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2016, 08:54:49 am
This is exactly the problem with X-Com engine: it doesn't account for penetration. You can't have hollow point ammo, AP ammo etc. I mean you could, but it'd require separate damage types, and we only have 10 of these.

Having said that, no, I don't think pistols should overall be stronger than rifles. (I misunderstood the issue at first.) But is this the case? A strong pistol like Colt has damage 30, the same as a standard rifle (AK47, Blackops Rifle). Most pistols are weaker.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 16, 2016, 10:57:49 am
This is exactly the problem with X-Com engine: it doesn't account for penetration. You can't have hollow point ammo, AP ammo etc. I mean you could, but it'd require separate damage types, and we only have 10 of these.

Why does this require a new damage type?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2016, 12:17:14 pm
Why does this require a new damage type?

Well, I haven't been able to come up with any other method of simulating various ammo types... Because damage type is exactly what it is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 16, 2016, 12:56:34 pm
You just want one ammo to penetrate armor better than the other ammo, right?
If yes, why not use one (or more) of Yankes' new damage altering parameters?

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
    battleType: 2
    power: 30
    damageType: 1 # DT_AP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.0 # armor is 100% effective
      ToArmorPre: 0.0 # no extra damage to armor
  - type: STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP_PENETRATING
    battleType: 2
    power: 30
    damageType: 1 # also DT_AP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 0.5 # armor is 50% effective
      ToArmorPre: 0.1 # destroys 10% of armor before each hit/damage calculation
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2016, 02:04:25 pm
You just want one ammo to penetrate armor better than the other ammo, right?

Because it's not only a matter of armour penetration as understood by X-Com, it's a matter of different damage types sensu stricto. A HP bullet behaves differently from an AP bullet. It could be approximated by giving HP bullets much more damage and a hefty armour penetration penalty, but that'd be really confusing when it comes to damage values. I just don't want to do something this hackish.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 16, 2016, 02:22:55 pm
Because it's not only a matter of armour penetration as understood by X-Com, it's a matter of different damage types sensu stricto. A HP bullet behaves differently from an AP bullet. It could be approximated by giving HP bullets much more damage and a hefty armour penetration penalty, but that'd be really confusing when it comes to damage values. I just don't want to do something this hackish.

Well, then what kind of non-hackish effect do you want?

I could add 20 more damage types already today, it's a matter of few hours... but they would be fundamentally no different from any other existing damage types (i.e. you couldn't do anything brand new with them as far as I understand)... I just don't understand how adding another type helps you?

There's no difference between for example DT_AP and DT_ACID or between DT_LASER and DT_PLASMA, except for the name/translation... or is there?

Just trying to find out what you're looking for... cos I just don't quite see it yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on September 16, 2016, 04:03:46 pm
bulletproof vest receiving 90% AP damage and 110% HP damage, I guess.

But IMO, don't give a choice to the player if he doesn't have the information to take a decision.
Before mind probe is used, alien lifeforms are complete unknowns, it's impossible to know if they resist 7 shots because high armor, high hp, or luck. Humans are expected to be consistent to their role and appearance, but this is limited by the graphics and flavor design :
- military types can logically have access to ballistic protection, but be drawn as camo clothed anyway.
- *straining eyes* is this blue thing a Nirvana t-shirt or a bulletproof armor ?
- *thinking* is this important church guy naked under his robe, or wearing plot armor because game reasons ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2016, 04:10:23 pm
I could add 20 more damage types already today, it's a matter of few hours... but they would be fundamentally no different from any other existing damage types (i.e. you couldn't do anything brand new with them as far as I understand)... I just don't understand how adding another type helps you?

Well, new damage types would mean new "elements". This would allow me to balance weapons with armour. If for example you add "HP damage" (hollow point) as 11th type, then I can make some weapons that currently have AP damage (generally, pistols), add appropriate resistance to units (good res for mechanical units regardless of armour, bad res for most living units) and therefore make the armoury more varied/realistic. (There are other bullet types too, I only give these two as extremes.)

Is it worth it? Some players say yes, as they are pointing out inconsistencies in the weapon behaviour that boil down to this problem. In my opinion no, if it's just to differentiate between AP and HP bullets; I can live with unification of firearms. But being able to define new damage types would be invaluable, since you could have many new weapon types that are currently impossible or need to be incorrectly classified as one of the basic 10 damage - for example, electric damage as plasma. This would be so rad.

@Yrizoud: yeah, good points. I wouldn't make it this unclear to the player though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 16, 2016, 04:36:25 pm
Let me repeat that once again, because I think you didn't understand what I said.

In vanilla OXC, a few damage types (stun, smoke and incendiary) have some special behavior... but the rest is totally identical (there's no difference between AP, Acid, Plasma, Laser, Melee, ...).

In OXCE, Yankes unhardcoded all of this and now there is no difference between them at all. You can make AP work as Smoke, or Incendiary work as Plasma. As far as I understand, the only thing we need the damage type for is the display the name of it to the user in the Ufopedia and to define resistance to it on various armors.

Back to your 11th type... why on earth would I hard-code a new damage type to do only health damage... if all available damage types already can do health damage if you tell them to (actually it's not damage types, it's actual ammo items... as I said damage type is just a name).

So if you need:
a/ different translation for your new damage type
b/ or different armor resistances to your new damage type
... I can make a few for you (let's say 5 new?).
But they would be bare, without any special effects (just like plasma, laser, AP, acid, ...).
And I would even call them DT_11, DT_12, DT_13, etc. to prevent confusion that they actually are hardcoded to do something specific in the code.

@Yankes: if you're reading this, maybe you can confirm/disprove what I just said.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2016, 05:49:30 pm
Frankly, I don't understand some parts of your post (the fact it's Friday evening is probably responsible, at least partially). Are you saying I can already add another type of damage that would correspond to a new unique resistance type?

I'll give an example. Let's say we're importing Deep Ones from TFTD to UFO (I mean the white transformed humans). Deep Ones use electric damage to attack. This damage type would be decent against non-armoured humans, excellent against machines and poor against most types of armour, which is expressed in resistance value against electricity. How would I go about it?

These questions are also aimed at Yankes; if you read this, please respond.

PS. This issue is one half of the damage mechanics improvement plan Dioxine and I have devised, the other half being multiple damage types per attack (see Solar's Wishlist for details).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 16, 2016, 06:02:03 pm
Frankly, I don't understand some parts of your post (the fact it's Friday evening is probably responsible, at least partially). Are you saying I can already add another type of damage that would correspond to a new unique resistance type?

No, I didn't say you can add new damage types :)
Only that you can modify the existing ones as you wish... and perform "special" effects (like e.g. hp damage) by other means.
Special effects are not hardcoded in OXCE anymore; and don't depend on damage type (other than backwards compatibility with vanilla, which you can override too if you wish).

If you need a unique resistance type, I will have to create it for you.... that's point b/ in my previous post.

I'll play with that over the weekend and prepare an experimental version for you with a few more generic damage/resistance types added.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2016, 06:39:12 pm
Thanks. Yeah, I understood I couldn't mod new damage types as such, but maybe it would be possible to emulate it via clever use of scripts and such.

What would be best is if it was possible to add new damage automatically, so for example I enter "damageType: 16" and the game simply recognizes it as damage type 16, so if there are 17 or more resistances listed in the armour entry, the game automatically chooses 17th resistance to counter the damage (and if not, it assumes 100%).
But it's probably too complicated, so I'd be happy with just some new damage types beyond the vanilla 10. How many? It's a complex question; if we stay true to the original design, in think another 10 would be more than enough.
Or a way to emulate it with scripts, but it'd probably cause hell with things like Ufopaedia display, or my own understanding of ruleset. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Yankes on September 16, 2016, 07:54:10 pm
[ps]This post lost value after Solarius Scorch replay, but I spend too much time on it to dump it to trash :>[/ps]

Let me repeat that once again, because I think you didn't understand what I said.

In vanilla OXC, a few damage types (stun, smoke and incendiary) have some special behavior... but the rest is totally identical (there's no difference between AP, Acid, Plasma, Laser, Melee, ...).

In OXCE, Yankes unhardcoded all of this and now there is no difference between them at all. You can make AP work as Smoke, or Incendiary work as Plasma. As far as I understand, the only thing we need the damage type for is the display the name of it to the user in the Ufopedia and to define resistance to it on various armors.

Back to your 11th type... why on earth would I hard-code a new damage type to do only health damage... if all available damage types already can do health damage if you tell them to (actually it's not damage types, it's actual ammo items... as I said damage type is just a name).

So if you need:
a/ different translation for your new damage type
b/ or different armor resistances to your new damage type
... I can make a few for you (let's say 5 new?).
But they would be bare, without any special effects (just like plasma, laser, AP, acid, ...).
And I would even call them DT_11, DT_12, DT_13, etc. to prevent confusion that they actually are hardcoded to do something specific in the code.

@Yankes: if you're reading this, maybe you can confirm/disprove what I just said.
99% confirm, 1% is `TileEngine::blockage` that handle specially propagation/tile blocking of explosion with damage type none and type smoke, hard to say how big effects this have on game play. I simply miss this part when I did unification of damage types.

Frankly, I don't understand some parts of your post (the fact it's Friday evening is probably responsible, at least partially). Are you saying I can already add another type of damage that would correspond to a new unique resistance type?

I'll give an example. Let's say we're importing Deep Ones from TFTD to UFO (I mean the white transformed humans). Deep Ones use electric damage to attack. This damage type would be decent against non-armoured humans, excellent against machines and poor against most types of armour, which is expressed in resistance value against electricity. How would I go about it?
This will be solved by Meridian when he add this "DT_11", only difference to other damage types will be from what position in armor resist table its will read value.
If this is still confusing let me elaborate:

in OXC damage type and damage behavior are link together.
Damage type define what position is read in `damageModifier` in armor. (we can name it resistances)
Damage behavior is how units starts interact with damage, e.g. "do only stun is applied?", "it is ignoring armor?".

in OXCE I split this two things, now damage behavior is part of item (`damageAlter`) and is independent to damage type.
Only moment they interact is when you set `damageType` on item, after that `damageAlter` will have default values same to damage behavior linked to that damage type in original OXC.

When Meridian add new damage types then only real difference will be that `damageModifier` in armor will have more possible values:
Code: [Select]
damageModifier:[1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0] #old
damageModifier:[1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 13.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0] #new
and now item with `damageType:10` it will do 13 time more damage to that armor. Difference to `ToHealth` is that latter apply to all armors.


For multiple damage types per attack will be possible in 3.4 (3.3 will be around next week finished). But this will be done by scripts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 17, 2016, 06:20:25 pm
Hi! Started playing again today, and I had an epic encounter with 2 reapers. My first thought was: "What?! Those are real aliens!" but there were some civilians, so I decided to try (btw, integrating some of the advanced civilians features that allow XCom agents to save civilians would be cool, and for that reason, 2 extra "evacuation" tiles at the back of the van, maybe one at the back of the car, could be good).

After killing my first reaper, I decided to go all Jurassic Park on the second and catch it. After what I deemed to be enough "softening fire", I moved 3 agents with stun batons (still haven't gotten around to buying tazers, silly me). 1 agent with a HKMP5 was providing cover fire, since sometimes it feels like you can make an alien rethink their advance if they are under fire. When the reaper got close enough, agents moved in, whacked it, and the HKMP5 finished the job (enough stun damage applied, you can apply proper damage and lower HP below the stun damage done). Woot! Captured reaper! But nope.. alien dies because of no containment  :'(

If it's a wild reaper, presumably it can live in the wild? Why can't I keep it in animal pens?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 17, 2016, 07:53:39 pm
If it's a wild reaper, presumably it can live in the wild? Why can't I keep it in animal pens?

Yeah, it's an omission on my part.
I give you my permission to manually add a living Reaper to the save. :)


EDIT: coming soon!

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=23999;image)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 17, 2016, 09:03:04 pm
Catacombs?  :o

Oh, HEEEEELLL NO!

What next?

Ass cancer lolipops?

Why do you hate my agents so much... oh god.

You better add something like a Saiga 12.

Excellent work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on September 17, 2016, 09:11:55 pm
Love the guy staring at the camera with the sniper rifle (at least, that's what I assume it is since you're re-using XOps' hybrid sniper rifle sprite) - "Caves, and you give me *this*?  Thanks, commander.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 18, 2016, 01:35:47 pm
Thanks for the kind words people! Here's the new version: https://www.mediafire.com/download/syfuoqso0t2va3m/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.3.1.zip

- Fixed broken Ufopaedia entries for the new prison facilities.
- Some Ufopaedia updates.
- More Cyberdiscs in Cydonia.
- Slightly increased Zombies aggression.
- Added new city blocks by Civilian.
- Added stat caps on Gym training.
- Gym is a bit less efficient.
- Reduced effective ranges on pistols.
- Added Concussion Cannon with ammo to the T'leth weaponry.
- Leather Coats are now buyable and require Personal Protection.
- Hidden Caves arc started.
- Fixed a random fatal crash on Black Lotus Witch interrogation.
- Fixed too many Zombie missions bug.
- Fixed a small error in the DAWNURBAN12 map.
- Added missing Tasoth researches.
- Some new minor stuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 19, 2016, 02:02:45 am
Woot! Cool stuff coming :D What would you think of a reaper sprite without armor? To make it look really wild.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 19, 2016, 02:49:30 am
Woot! Cool stuff coming :D What would you think of a reaper sprite without armor? To make it look really wild.

I'd love it, and the same goes to Salamandron.
Unfortunately, Falko's tools recently disappeared, so no more new big units for now...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 19, 2016, 04:32:48 am
Editing the sprite sheet should be doable any ways, but I don't have tools to fix up the palette after I mess things up. I'll look into it any ways. The sprite work will take a while any ways.. Hopefully by then, Falko's tools will come back. They were really useful.

Another thing: I got a rifle, SA-80, which I don't know much about, and apparently my scientists refuse to work on. If you think there is a reason why I shouldn't be able to buy more (or more ammo for it) by simply researching it, that's fine. But it'd be nice to get some info on what it does. I would suggest a system where you have one STR_RIFLE_SA80 research topic with "needitem: true" for the gun so it can be researched and tells what it does (ie gives a ufopaedia article, the equivalent of taking it to a firing range for a bit of time, I'd guess?), and a different topic, which has the dependencies of the current one, and is what is needed to buy the weapon and ammo (what actually takes more time as you have to setup the contacts, permissions and logistics). It makes sense in Piratez to not be able to study advanced guns when the gals are in the stone age, but for modern rifles in XComFiles it is less logical.

Also, thanks for the live reaper :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 19, 2016, 10:38:38 am
Editing the sprite sheet should be doable any ways, but I don't have tools to fix up the palette after I mess things up. I'll look into it any ways. The sprite work will take a while any ways.. Hopefully by then, Falko's tools will come back. They were really useful.

If it's just about the palette, then it's no problem, it's 2 seconds in Photoshop. I'd be happy to convert anything.
But how to cut these sheets properly is certainly beyond me.

Another thing: I got a rifle, SA-80, which I don't know much about, and apparently my scientists refuse to work on. If you think there is a reason why I shouldn't be able to buy more (or more ammo for it) by simply researching it, that's fine. But it'd be nice to get some info on what it does. I would suggest a system where you have one STR_RIFLE_SA80 research topic with "needitem: true" for the gun so it can be researched and tells what it does (ie gives a ufopaedia article, the equivalent of taking it to a firing range for a bit of time, I'd guess?), and a different topic, which has the dependencies of the current one, and is what is needed to buy the weapon and ammo (what actually takes more time as you have to setup the contacts, permissions and logistics). It makes sense in Piratez to not be able to study advanced guns when the gals are in the stone age, but for modern rifles in XComFiles it is less logical.

Yes, there are some things to be ironed out like this one. I'm not doing this yet because everything keeps changing.

Also, thanks for the live reaper :D

Have fun, and don't forget to walk it twice a day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: JeyP on September 19, 2016, 04:24:56 pm
Damm...laptop and ISP problems.

About balancing weapons there already plenty factors to do it. Accuracy, damage, TU cost, power bonus, asarc (aimed shoot accurate range cap), reload speed, weight. And there are already plenty done just a little tweaks are needed.
-pistols ~20-25 dmg, can make 3 aimed and 4-5 snap, asarc 20/25 and drop for 3% witch each tile (like Arthanor said) becouse pistols shouldn't be powerfull enought to snipe with them.
-assault rifles ~30 dmg, 2 aimed, 3 snap, 2 auto, asarc 20/25 witch 2% each tile drop
-rifle, sniper ~35-40 damage, 1 aimed, 2-3 snap, no asarc, power bonus firing*0,1-0,2
Weight and reload speed depend of weapon model.

Isn't field of view to big ? Maybe becouse of smal maps at the begining but just remembered that i didn't use scouts in 0.3 just snipe with lugers from afar.

Quick test run 0.31 and crash.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 19, 2016, 04:55:17 pm
Quick test run 0.31 and crash.

Simple answer: no aliens are generated for the map/deployment and OpenXcom says: no, you don't.

More complicated answer.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_CHURCH_OF_DAGON
    data:
      - alienRank: 5
        lowQty: 0
        highQty: 3
        dQty: 1
        percentageOutsideUfo: 70

On Beginner, the number of spawned aliens is: lowQty + random(0, dQty) + random(0, extraQty)
In this case: 0 + random(0, 1) + random(0, 0)

Possible outcomes: 0 or 1.

Your outcome: 0

QED.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 19, 2016, 08:09:39 pm
Yeah, thanks for catching this logic error.

But hmm, if there are no enemies, the mission should simply end! Err, it means victory, right? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 19, 2016, 09:56:18 pm
But hmm, if there are no enemies, the mission should simply end! Err, it means victory, right? :)

Mission ends when there were enemies and all were killed during the crash.

If there are no enemies, the very fabric of spacetime starts falling apart.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 20, 2016, 03:09:03 am
Been playing some more and having a good time using Nitro rifles. But, it struck me how deadly some of the engagements are, compared to what we see in the news. I know in Piratez Dioxine talked about increasing stun damage of common firearms, so that firearms become more debilitating and less outright deadly. I think that would be a great thing to have in XCom-Files as well, so you can apprehend suspects (or capture alien life forms) after they have been wounded.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 20, 2016, 10:10:27 am
Been playing some more and having a good time using Nitro rifles. But, it struck me how deadly some of the engagements are, compared to what we see in the news. I know in Piratez Dioxine talked about increasing stun damage of common firearms, so that firearms become more debilitating and less outright deadly. I think that would be a great thing to have in XCom-Files as well, so you can apprehend suspects (or capture alien life forms) after they have been wounded.

That's possible; a major overhaul, but worth considering.
Surrender mechanics would be better though. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 20, 2016, 06:12:33 pm
They're two different things. Surrender works for active enemies. Adding stun damage allows to simulate "shooting in the shoulder/leg and capturing the guy squirming in pain on the floor". In XCom, everything is either irrelevant or a kill shot. Adding stun damage would allow this poor guy with already 3 bullet wounds to lie down instead of trying to fight back and getting killed by a 4th. Right now, the minute amount of stun damage added is barely ever useful. Only when units are within an inch of death do they actually fall, usually to die off next turn any ways.

Edit: Also, it'd be more user friendly to use descriptive words for research projects (I'm thinking here of the Dragonfly specifically) than weird given names. Luckily, I had just read about the Dragonfly so I knew it was something significant, but others might not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 20, 2016, 08:08:04 pm
They're two different things. Surrender works for active enemies. Adding stun damage allows to simulate "shooting in the shoulder/leg and capturing the guy squirming in pain on the floor". In XCom, everything is either irrelevant or a kill shot. Adding stun damage would allow this poor guy with already 3 bullet wounds to lie down instead of trying to fight back and getting killed by a 4th. Right now, the minute amount of stun damage added is barely ever useful. Only when units are within an inch of death do they actually fall, usually to die off next turn any ways.

Yeah, I totally understand and share your view. My worry is that firearms in general would be hard to get for the player, because they would all display incomplete damage (basic damage, not the stun extra) in the Ufopaedia and their damage values would have to be lowered a little, too... So I'm not sure it's acceptable.

Edit: Also, it'd be more user friendly to use descriptive words for research projects (I'm thinking here of the Dragonfly specifically) than weird given names. Luckily, I had just read about the Dragonfly so I knew it was something significant, but others might not.

OK, I'll rethink the names at some point.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on September 20, 2016, 09:33:02 pm
I had an idea for the zombies : Give them a combination of :
- no death sound
- never suffer fatal wounds
- do take "additional stun damage" from most damage (like vanilla)
This way, when zombies silently collapse under fire, the player is left with the uncomfortable situation that they are *very probably* dead, but there's always the lingering risk that one is technically stunned, and will rise after a few turns while nobody is watching.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 20, 2016, 09:53:14 pm
Yeah, I totally understand and share your view. My worry is that firearms in general would be hard to get for the player, because they would all display incomplete damage (basic damage, not the stun extra) in the Ufopaedia and their damage values would have to be lowered a little, too... So I'm not sure it's acceptable.

Yes, it's pushing things a bit. I'm not sure what the cleanest communication would be. The best would be if the weapons would do a flat % of basic damage as stun. So if a gun lists 25 damage and 30% to stun, it does 0-50 damage (times 1-resistance, minus armor), and 30% of the damage result as stun.

Edit: Maybe I should make a mod to yours to try it?

Quote
OK, I'll rethink the names at some point.

Something like "Special Ops Transport" or "Black Helicopter" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter)

I had an idea for the zombies : Give them a combination of :
- no death sound
- never suffer fatal wounds
- do take "additional stun damage" from most damage (like vanilla)
This way, when zombies silently collapse under fire, the player is left with the uncomfortable situation that they are *very probably* dead, but there's always the lingering risk that one is technically stunned, and will rise after a few turns while nobody is watching.
Mean! But I like it. I don't think zombies suffer fatal wounds already, since I don't remember ever having to heal one and I have way more than enough live ones. No death sound would be infuriating :P I already walk to any zombie that didn't shout to give them a face full of lead (after I got bit in the back twice...). Now I'd have to do it for all of them!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 21, 2016, 10:28:22 am
I had an idea for the zombies : Give them a combination of :
- no death sound
- never suffer fatal wounds
- do take "additional stun damage" from most damage (like vanilla)
This way, when zombies silently collapse under fire, the player is left with the uncomfortable situation that they are *very probably* dead, but there's always the lingering risk that one is technically stunned, and will rise after a few turns while nobody is watching.

Yeah, I get the concept, but wouldn't it be just mean? These missions already take long, I'm afraid it'd be even worse if the player had to worry about enemies standing up so much. It'd be like Ghouls in Piratez, but worse (more enemies).

Yes, it's pushing things a bit. I'm not sure what the cleanest communication would be. The best would be if the weapons would do a flat % of basic damage as stun. So if a gun lists 25 damage and 30% to stun, it does 0-50 damage (times 1-resistance, minus armor), and 30% of the damage result as stun.

Edit: Maybe I should make a mod to yours to try it?

Sure, go ahead. I won't be working on the mod within the next few days anyway, so you could give it a try.

Something like "Special Ops Transport" or "Black Helicopter" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter)

At this point it could even be called "Air Transport" and still sound like an improvement. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: hellrazor on September 21, 2016, 04:00:48 pm
Yeah, I get the concept, but wouldn't it be just mean? These missions already take long, I'm afraid it'd be even worse if the player had to worry about enemies standing up so much. It'd be like Ghouls in Piratez, but worse (more enemies).

Sure, go ahead. I won't be working on the mod within the next few days anyway, so you could give it a try.

At this point it could even be called "Air Transport" and still sound like an improvement. :D

Make them so always have 1 HP left, immune to fatal wounds, gaining +2 HP each turn. They will always be coming back... :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: HelmetHair on September 22, 2016, 03:30:01 am
Make them so always have 1 HP left, immune to fatal wounds, gaining +2 HP each turn. They will always be coming back... :)

No. Meat is still meat; be it dead or alive. A large caliber bullet destroying a section of the spinal cord cripples the zombie. destruction of pelvic girdle or shoulder girdle means a greatly reduced amount of movement or the inability to lift the hands.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 22, 2016, 10:23:55 am
No. Meat is still meat; be it dead or alive. A large caliber bullet destroying a section of the spinal cord cripples the zombie. destruction of pelvic girdle or shoulder girdle means a greatly reduced amount of movement or the inability to lift the hands.

Yep. Materialism.
I didn't want to go for this argument straight away, but it's true that without excessive amounts of Elerium it's impossible to have a unit that regenerates on the fly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: hellrazor on September 22, 2016, 05:22:29 pm
Yep. Materialism.
I didn't want to go for this argument straight away, but it's true that without excessive amounts of Elerium it's impossible to have a unit that regenerates on the fly.

Is there any way to spawn a new unit in vanilla OCX from a dead unit like the zombies do spawn Chryssalids?
Ok "spawnUnits:" takes care of this.
Lets make "Regenarators"!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 22, 2016, 05:25:15 pm
Is there any way to spawn a new unit in vanilla OCX from a dead unit like the zombies do spawn Chryssalids?

You mean from a dying unit?
Yes, obviously, using the same flag as the Zombie. All you need is to add the spawning animation.
This is used for example in Piratez for Beastmasters, which shed their armour after being hit too much.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: hellrazor on September 22, 2016, 05:27:13 pm
You mean from a dying unit?
Yes, obviously, using the same flag as the Zombie. All you need is to add the spawning animation.
This is used for example in Piratez for Beastmasters, which shed their armour after being hit too much.

Does it need a animation, or does it also work without one? Need to test this later. I want "Regenerators". Immune to stun!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 22, 2016, 05:46:08 pm
Endgame zombies which spawn a new zombie upon dying? Need to use a weapon with overkill to completely destroy them. Otherwise they keep coming!

Edit: Back to the guns causing extra stun damage:

I started to work on it, then I realized, it doesn't make more sense for normal guns to cause stun damage than for, say, lasers. I also noticed plasma weapons already have a huge ToStun value, presumably for the concussion/burn effect? Which means explosives should get some too, and so on.. Then it seemed a bit big of a thing to get started on! Here's what I was thinking:

1 - I don't want to change the power/resist/armor relationship. So I will use "ToHealth" and "ToStun" to split the current power between health and stun. This means that if something would have gotten down in the current system, it will with the additional stun, but it might still be alive (to bleed out unless stabilized).
2 - Most weapons wouldn't get much stun, I am thinking of 13% (so 87% to health, and the ratio of stun to health is pretty much 15%). This reduces the odds of one shot kills a bit, but the usual 2-3 hit kills shouldn't get changed much as the subsequent hits are likely to deplete the remaining health regardless of stun damage. Against some enemies which take many hits, like zombies, this will make stuns more likely, but zombies falling and getting back up isn't really a bad thing ;) (also, this makes carrying combat blades to finish off zombies with the execute function more worthwhile, or just walking up to them and giving them a face full of lead).
3 - Explosive weapons would get 20% stun (80% health, 25% ratio) to tie them in with plasma weapons
4- Conversely, some stun weapons (like Tazers and electric clubs) would get a small portion of lethal damage. Repeatedly tazing someone has been shown to cause issue. It won't affect gameplay much, since you only have to bring health below stun damage to stun something, so reducing health is as effective as increasing stun damage. It will, however, make it harder to keep something stunned longer or to restun something that has been rendered unconscious by lethal weapons.

Edit 2: Man I'm "spamming the thread!

I just got to Promotion II and "Woot!" is quite appropriate :D I was starting to wonder, since I am in Summer 1998, if I was going too slow or something. But it seems like I am about on time, so well done on the pacing!

Another comment dump:

1 - I'm gaging my progress with the vanilla UFO starting date: Where am I at compared to how close I am to January 1999. I'm now building workshops so that's good, but I don't have blueprints for labs. I'm guessing that it will follow after doing some stuff for the chief researcher. Still missing a bunch of other vanilla stuff too (chiefly: grenades, the heavy weapons I can understand). Which brings us to:

2 - Weapons access is too restricted. I just got promoted, so I now have access to LMGs and Sniper Rifles, but I still don't have a proper rifle beyond the HKMP5. I looted some M16 and some other gun that uses them, but I can't buy them (and I self-restrict to things I can buy or make, since this is a proper organization, not Piratez!) and I can't research them. I would reiterate the suggestion of using the promotions to "unlock" stuff that should have gotten unlocked before. Ex.: Promotion I soon gives you access to the Dragonfly, so it could unlock the van in order to give the player some time for "van play" before the Dragonfly. Similarly, promotions could unlock basic weapons. I can now buy dynamite, incendiary grenades, etc. but not regular grenades?

3 - Great job building up the encounters. The suspect apprehensions work well with the car, the activity manageable with the van and easy with the dragonfly and the outpost are challenging with the dragonfly, so it really feels like things are scaling up. And the dragonfly lets me bring doggies!

4 - Holy cow those Black Lotus Assassins. How much do you hate our agents?! I had one kill 3 agents and a dog before I could do anything. On my turn, one throwing knife kill out of nowhere, then dog gets it too. On its turn, nothing. On my 2nd turn, move a soldier up, reaction killed. Move another soldier up, reaction killed but I now see it. Remaining soldiers kill the damn dude. Then I notice the interrupted movement caused by "reaction fire blocked by maxrange" and think: If that's another assassin, I can't take it. 4 remaining agents grab the witch and her fancy bracelet and abort. I understand that the camo is better than the loftemp hack, but at least that allowed you to spot things at a greater distance if you were lucky to get the right angle. This, before motion detectors, is insane. I would suggest giving them ninja stars instead of throwing knives. It would be more in character (they're ninjas!) and also give agents a chance to survive one hit.

5 - Nitro Express Rifle: I can't get a decent rifle, but that thing is a monster! Better than the sniper rifle except in ammo count and weight, it feels.. wrong. It was a no-brainer to give it to pretty much everyone, except ~2 agents with the highest reaction who got HKMP5s and shotguns for close up work. I don't really understand why it scales so well with firing (if it's designed to kill elephants, wouldn't it always hit hard if you can hit? Or maybe I guess you have to hit "properly" or something?).

6 - I think it would be nice to distinguish between ammo/weapons that are supposed to pierce armor and those which are supposed to damage flesh. Just tweaking the "applied armor" would make it doable, and allow to distinguish between say, the nitro express and other hunting weapons which are for hunting animals (ie large power, don't do well against armor) and the military weapons (especially the sniper rifle) which is for taking out humans (and the few beasties with "armor"). The enemies already create two kind of fights since beasties don't shoot but humans do, further differentiating by making certain weapons better against one or the other would diversify the gameplay even more instead of "Nitro for everyone".

7 - I have a sprite sheet, bigob and floorob for a dog with an armored vest (akin to the ones used in military/police operations). Would you be interested? I feel like once you get armored vests with helmets, the dogs could get something too!

8 - I've already said it, but again: Great work! I've played way too much of this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2016, 12:08:19 pm
Does it need a animation, or does it also work without one? Need to test this later. I want "Regenerators". Immune to stun!

I think it used to crash without the animation, but I'm not sure about how it works now. Such animations are easy to do though.

Endgame zombies which spawn a new zombie upon dying? Need to use a weapon with overkill to completely destroy them. Otherwise they keep coming!

Wicked idea. I like it. Not for usual Zombies of course.

Edit: Back to the guns causing extra stun damage:

I started to work on it, then I realized, it doesn't make more sense for normal guns to cause stun damage than for, say, lasers. I also noticed plasma weapons already have a huge ToStun value, presumably for the concussion/burn effect? Which means explosives should get some too, and so on..

Yeah... There's plenty of decisions to be made. In this model, lasers are reasonably "clean", they cut well but don't mess up your insides otherwise, and also they cauterize the wound. Plasma is more explosive and burny, and bullets carry kinetic energy (especially non-AP bullets, but we can't have the distinction yet).
But as I said, it's just a model, one of many possible.

Then it seemed a bit big of a thing to get started on! Here's what I was thinking:
 
1 - I don't want to change the power/resist/armor relationship. So I will use "ToHealth" and "ToStun" to split the current power between health and stun. This means that if something would have gotten down in the current system, it will with the additional stun, but it might still be alive (to bleed out unless stabilized).

OK, but remember that the additional damage isn't shown in the damage display. This can get confusing!

2 - Most weapons wouldn't get much stun, I am thinking of 13% (so 87% to health, and the ratio of stun to health is pretty much 15%). This reduces the odds of one shot kills a bit, but the usual 2-3 hit kills shouldn't get changed much as the subsequent hits are likely to deplete the remaining health regardless of stun damage. Against some enemies which take many hits, like zombies, this will make stuns more likely, but zombies falling and getting back up isn't really a bad thing ;) (also, this makes carrying combat blades to finish off zombies with the execute function more worthwhile, or just walking up to them and giving them a face full of lead).

...I'm really starting to think we need additional display for damageAlter. :P

3 - Explosive weapons would get 20% stun (80% health, 25% ratio) to tie them in with plasma weapons
4- Conversely, some stun weapons (like Tazers and electric clubs) would get a small portion of lethal damage. Repeatedly tazing someone has been shown to cause issue. It won't affect gameplay much, since you only have to bring health below stun damage to stun something, so reducing health is as effective as increasing stun damage. It will, however, make it harder to keep something stunned longer or to restun something that has been rendered unconscious by lethal weapons.

I thought about it, but dropped for simplicity.
But it looks like simplicity is not an excuse any more. :P

I just got to Promotion II and "Woot!" is quite appropriate :D

Congrats! :)

1 - I'm gaging my progress with the vanilla UFO starting date: Where am I at compared to how close I am to January 1999. I'm now building workshops so that's good, but I don't have blueprints for labs. I'm guessing that it will follow after doing some stuff for the chief researcher. Still missing a bunch of other vanilla stuff too (chiefly: grenades, the heavy weapons I can understand).

Labs are fairly easy to get. Grenades are not. :)

2 - Weapons access is too restricted. I just got promoted, so I now have access to LMGs and Sniper Rifles, but I still don't have a proper rifle beyond the HKMP5. I looted some M16 and some other gun that uses them, but I can't buy them (and I self-restrict to things I can buy or make, since this is a proper organization, not Piratez!) and I can't research them.

Weird, I think you should after Promotion II. I'll check when I can.

I would reiterate the suggestion of using the promotions to "unlock" stuff that should have gotten unlocked before. Ex.: Promotion I soon gives you access to the Dragonfly, so it could unlock the van in order to give the player some time for "van play" before the Dragonfly. Similarly, promotions could unlock basic weapons.

I think I've already explained it's problematic because of how tech tree works in X-Com. But I promise I will try to think of some compromise.

I can now buy dynamite, incendiary grenades, etc. but not regular grenades?

Because it's strictly military stuff and the big boys don't want you to have them yet.
Dynamite is a bit of a grey area, as it's not technically a military weapon.

3 - Great job building up the encounters. The suspect apprehensions work well with the car, the activity manageable with the van and easy with the dragonfly and the outpost are challenging with the dragonfly, so it really feels like things are scaling up. And the dragonfly lets me bring doggies!

Well, I really need to finish the "dogs as soldiers" feature soon. :P

4 - Holy cow those Black Lotus Assassins. How much do you hate our agents?! I had one kill 3 agents and a dog before I could do anything. On my turn, one throwing knife kill out of nowhere, then dog gets it too. On its turn, nothing. On my 2nd turn, move a soldier up, reaction killed. Move another soldier up, reaction killed but I now see it. Remaining soldiers kill the damn dude. Then I notice the interrupted movement caused by "reaction fire blocked by maxrange" and think: If that's another assassin, I can't take it. 4 remaining agents grab the witch and her fancy bracelet and abort. I understand that the camo is better than the loftemp hack, but at least that allowed you to spot things at a greater distance if you were lucky to get the right angle. This, before motion detectors, is insane. I would suggest giving them ninja stars instead of throwing knives. It would be more in character (they're ninjas!) and also give agents a chance to survive one hit.

Well, the thing is that now they're generally easier than before, when they were just invisible. :P
"Reaction fire blocked by maxrange" isn't necessarily an Assassin. But if there's one, there are probably more...
And they use both knives and stars. Same with Warriors.

5 - Nitro Express Rifle: I can't get a decent rifle, but that thing is a monster! Better than the sniper rifle except in ammo count and weight, it feels.. wrong. It was a no-brainer to give it to pretty much everyone, except ~2 agents with the highest reaction who got HKMP5s and shotguns for close up work. I don't really understand why it scales so well with firing (if it's designed to kill elephants, wouldn't it always hit hard if you can hit? Or maybe I guess you have to hit "properly" or something?).

I stole it from Piratez. :P It's essentially the same weapon... But I'll rething it.

6 - I think it would be nice to distinguish between ammo/weapons that are supposed to pierce armor and those which are supposed to damage flesh. Just tweaking the "applied armor" would make it doable, and allow to distinguish between say, the nitro express and other hunting weapons which are for hunting animals (ie large power, don't do well against armor) and the military weapons (especially the sniper rifle) which is for taking out humans (and the few beasties with "armor"). The enemies already create two kind of fights since beasties don't shoot but humans do, further differentiating by making certain weapons better against one or the other would diversify the gameplay even more instead of "Nitro for everyone".

Yes, but I want to use damageType when it becomes possible.

7 - I have a sprite sheet, bigob and floorob for a dog with an armored vest (akin to the ones used in military/police operations). Would you be interested? I feel like once you get armored vests with helmets, the dogs could get something too!

Yes, sure :)

8 - I've already said it, but again: Great work! I've played way too much of this.

Sorry about your time... Sadly, I promise no improvement here. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 23, 2016, 05:03:02 pm
OK, but remember that the additional damage isn't shown in the damage display. This can get confusing!
That's the beauty of using "ToHealth" and "ToStun". The total power doesn't change, so the number displayed is actually accurate. What changes is the partition between how much of it is applied as health or stun damage, which I will report.

Quote
...I'm really starting to think we need additional display for damageAlter. :P
Yeah, that'd be great!

Quote
I thought about it, but dropped for simplicity.
But it looks like simplicity is not an excuse any more. :P
Well, if I make up a "stun gun mod", might as well go all the way!

Quote
Weird, I think you should after Promotion II. I'll check when I can.
Maybe I can research them now but I didn't notice? I'll look this weekend too. I try to  play spoiler free except for interrogations so I didn't look at the tech tree viewer.

Quote
I think I've already explained it's problematic because of how tech tree works in X-Com. But I promise I will try to think of some compromise.
I agree about the van, it doesn't work in the current system. But for guns there should be no problem as there is no story, just a new gun available for buying and in the ufopaedia.

Quote
Because it's strictly military stuff and the big boys don't want you to have them yet.
But.. I can get a sniper rifle! And automatic weapons! Alright, I guess hand-held explosives goes a bit further.. and dynamite is civilian access with some clearance, true. But what about incendiary grenades? They're not military stuff?

Quote
Well, I really need to finish the "dogs as soldiers" feature soon. :P
Soldier dogs, with trainable reactions (as they learn to better react to the messed up stuff they encounter and could never be trained for) would be cool :D And having a doggy memorial.. I've lost a fair few, but they did save the life of agents! (except the one time where I though: Doggy can totally bite that spider to hell, and it's the spider that did it :( )

Quote
Well, the thing is that now they're generally easier than before, when they were just invisible. :P
"Reaction fire blocked by maxrange" isn't necessarily an Assassin. But if there's one, there are probably more...
And they use both knives and stars. Same with Warriors.
With the loftemp hack, you could spot them (well Piratez catgirls is what I have experience with) from 30 tiles away if you were at the right angle, these guys are invisible until what? 4 tiles? And 80% deadly (as in, only once did an assassin attack fail to kill my agent, because he missed with his katana! They hit and killed 100% of targets with throwing knives. I think 100% lethality is ok for aliens with plasma, but invisible ninjas.. I don't know. They're more of a "FU" than entertainment to me. Even Star Gods don't have a 100% kill ratio when shooting.)

Quote
I stole it from Piratez. :P It's essentially the same weapon... But I'll rething it.

Yes, but I want to use damageType when it becomes possible.

How about renaming "armor piercing" to "kinetic" and using damage alter? playing around with armor using damage alter can achieve almost the same thing as changing resistances. Maybe I'll do it in "StunGunz" and we'll see how it goes.

Quote
Sorry about your time... Sadly, I promise no improvement here. :)
No apologies required. I hope it gets worse  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2016, 05:21:27 pm
That's the beauty of using "ToHealth" and "ToStun". The total power doesn't change, so the number displayed is actually accurate. What changes is the partition between how much of it is applied as health or stun damage, which I will report.

Yeah, I just thought it should be said. So that damage 45 really meant 0-90 damage minus armour.

I agree about the van, it doesn't work in the current system. But for guns there should be no problem as there is no story, just a new gun available for buying and in the ufopaedia.

Ah right, I get it now. Yes, I'll have a look.

But.. I can get a sniper rifle! And automatic weapons! Alright, I guess hand-held explosives goes a bit further.. and dynamite is civilian access with some clearance, true. But what about incendiary grenades? They're not military stuff?

I agree my choices were somewhat liberal... so here's how it is now. :D

Soldier dogs, with trainable reactions (as they learn to better react to the messed up stuff they encounter and could never be trained for) would be cool :D And having a doggy memorial.. I've lost a fair few, but they did save the life of agents! (except the one time where I though: Doggy can totally bite that spider to hell, and it's the spider that did it :( )

R.I.P. :(

With the loftemp hack, you could spot them (well Piratez catgirls is what I have experience with) from 30 tiles away if you were at the right angle, these guys are invisible until what? 4 tiles? And 80% deadly (as in, only once did an assassin attack fail to kill my agent, because he missed with his katana! They hit and killed 100% of targets with throwing knives. I think 100% lethality is ok for aliens with plasma, but invisible ninjas.. I don't know. They're more of a "FU" than entertainment to me. Even Star Gods don't have a 100% kill ratio when shooting.)

I don't think they're that deadly, maybe you got a little unlucky. But I'm open to suggestions.

How about renaming "armor piercing" to "kinetic" and using damage alter? playing around with armor using damage alter can achieve almost the same thing as changing resistances. Maybe I'll do it in "StunGunz" and we'll see how it goes.

Sure, experiments are good. We'll see how it goes.
But I still think more damage types are pretty much needed, so if we're getting them, I'd like to use them here too.

No apologies required. I hope it gets worse  ;D

That's the plan. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 23, 2016, 05:28:16 pm
I don't think they're that deadly, maybe you got a little unlucky. But I'm open to suggestions.

They've been murder machines to me. My current plan is to only land, kill and few and run away on Black Lotus engagements for now. I think I've got what I needed from the outposts (one assassin, the one who fumbled with his katana, and a bunch of witches) and the points are totally not worth the loss of my best agents (outpost missions being the deadliest, I sent the best 7 agents of a base, with my best dog, for them, so mass casualties are really penalizing).

Maybe I did get unlucky, indeed, I only have two experiences with assassins and they are wildly different (no casualties, 4 casualties) but I'll wait a bit more still before I dare encounter them again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on September 23, 2016, 07:03:02 pm
I wish research projects could "give" items. :
- Early weapon research brings a prototype and a few clip, before you can research how to build or buy infinite numbers
- Interrogation can bring back some loot, as the prisoner's information led our team to a cache
- "Live alien" study produces the relevant corpse, ready for autopsy
- Research nodes like "military advisor" can bring a specific amount of weapons and ammo, as the recruited guy arrives with some gifts.
All these are short-term benefits, especially when the items are expendables (typically: ammo). If you got 6 grenades and can't buy more, you're more confident than empty-handed, however you hesitate to waste them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 23, 2016, 07:48:26 pm
Ok, so i played some more and want to tell you a story: When i was kid and played TFTD on my first PC, i called last lobsterman in alien base "a sh*t dinosaur". I dont really remember why. ??? So.
Exalt HQ is a freaking sh*t jurassic park!  ;D
After 2 days (Two days of real time!) i decised to pick up stunned brainer and retreat. It was only option which came in my mind.
After that i researched crainer project, Eliminate Exalt project (sadly, it have no ufopedia entry). And... exalt bases continue to spawn. Is it must be like that?
And one more question: when radars was at last builded, i detect my first UFO. But i have no interceptors... I think it is feature (must catch first landed ufo maybe?) but not sure.
As always, excuse me for bad spelling.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 24, 2016, 12:38:18 pm
I wish research projects could "give" items.

Yeah, it's an interesting mechanics. I'd use it somehow.

After 2 days (Two days of real time!) i decised to pick up stunned brainer and retreat. It was only option which came in my mind.

Ugh. Tough. But it's only needed once.

After that i researched crainer project, Eliminate Exalt project (sadly, it have no ufopedia entry). And... exalt bases continue to spawn. Is it must be like that?

It shouldn't be happening:
Code: [Select]
  - type: CultHQEXALT
    researchTriggers:
      STR_EXALT_HQ: true
      STR_DESTROY_EXALT: false

Except if it's the same month as the research. I can't prevent this.

And one more question: when radars was at last builded, i detect my first UFO. But i have no interceptors... I think it is feature (must catch first landed ufo maybe?) but not sure.

Not exactly, but yes, at least you can track UFOs now. Planes will come later.

I agree about the van, it doesn't work in the current system. But for guns there should be no problem as there is no story, just a new gun available for buying and in the ufopaedia.

Regarding this issue: which ones should be unlockable by promotion? AK47 or M16? Uzi or Skorpion? etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 24, 2016, 02:59:46 pm
I wish research projects could "give" items. :
- Early weapon research brings a prototype and a few clip, before you can research how to build or buy infinite numbers
- Interrogation can bring back some loot, as the prisoner's information led our team to a cache
- "Live alien" study produces the relevant corpse, ready for autopsy
- Research nodes like "military advisor" can bring a specific amount of weapons and ammo, as the recruited guy arrives with some gifts.
All these are short-term benefits, especially when the items are expendables (typically: ammo). If you got 6 grenades and can't buy more, you're more confident than empty-handed, however you hesitate to waste them.

Yeah, interesting and easy to do.

Will do in the next few days... then we can get Menacing Hull and Tiny Drill later than right from the start :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 24, 2016, 03:21:25 pm
Oh, that's good news, Meridian. I'm not sure how exactly it'll be useful yet, but I'm sure it'll find many uses.

@Arthanor: I keep thinking about the "firearms stun" idea and keep returning to the conclusion that it'd be to best to be able to modify damage types. So we could change the 0.25 extra stun damage to something else, like 0.4, but only to AP damage type.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 24, 2016, 06:26:35 pm
I think "proper military weapons" should be what the promotions unlock. XCOM is a legit organization, not a bunch of insurgents. So M-16, not AK-47s, and.. I dunno which smg would be more applicable but whichever is more likely to be in use by western countries police/military.

As for stun gunz, I think there's some misunderstanding. The only thing that damage types do is have their own resist type. You can't set a certain damage type to get 40% stun, you have to set it for every ammo. So as far as I see it, the work I'll do for StunGunz will always be applicable.

If you switch the damage type of some ammo, that'll change the resist that is used against the ammo but that'll change nothing from what I do to partition health and stun damage (unless you also set damageAlter properties for ammos).

Effectively, armor piercing and hollow point bullets are both "kinetic" damage: you propel as heavy a piece of metal as fast as possible and hope the impact kills your enemy. AP could have lower damage but ignore some of the enemy's armor, HP could have higher damage but takes full (or more!) armor penalty. AP would probably do less stun damage as the wound is cleaner, HP would do more stun as the wound is a painful mess. But both would do more than lasers and less than plasma.

Gauss is a special case of kinetic damage which pushes momentum at the cost of mass. I'm thinking penetration would increase with energy and decrease with mass. If we scale stun inversely with penetration (a bullet that goes through leaves a clean wound vs a musket ball or hollow point leaves a painful mess), then gauss would be also get very little stun damage. By opposition, "mass driver railguns" would get lots of stun.

Altogether, this gives the possibility of:
Early game kinetic AP and HP
Midgame laser and mass drivers
Endgame gauss and plasma

Where each game tier has an AP and a high damage/high stun weapon.

Edit: I've attached the XAE_Attack_Dogs mod I made, which includes an alien alloy vest for dogs. A quick recolor (Falko, where are you!?!? And your tools!!) to a greyscale would make it a decent modern kevlar vest for doggies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 24, 2016, 08:41:37 pm
I think "proper military weapons" should be what the promotions unlock. XCOM is a legit organization, not a bunch of insurgents. So M-16, not AK-47s, and.. I dunno which smg would be more applicable but whichever is more likely to be in use by western countries police/military.

So I need to earn a proper rifle? OK! :D

As for stun gunz, I think there's some misunderstanding. The only thing that damage types do is have their own resist type. You can't set a certain damage type to get 40% stun, you have to set it for every ammo. So as far as I see it, the work I'll do for StunGunz will always be applicable.

I'm kinda convinced that you can. For example, Stun doesn't cause (additional) stun. Fire doesn't cause fatal wounds. This sort of thing. (Unless I'm wrong?)

If you switch the damage type of some ammo, that'll change the resist that is used against the ammo but that'll change nothing from what I do to partition health and stun damage (unless you also set damageAlter properties for ammos).

Yeah, I get this.

Effectively, armor piercing and hollow point bullets are both "kinetic" damage: you propel as heavy a piece of metal as fast as possible and hope the impact kills your enemy. AP could have lower damage but ignore some of the enemy's armor, HP could have higher damage but takes full (or more!) armor penalty. AP would probably do less stun damage as the wound is cleaner, HP would do more stun as the wound is a painful mess. But both would do more than lasers and less than plasma.

This sounds really good. Can you please post an example?

Gauss is a special case of kinetic damage which pushes momentum at the cost of mass. I'm thinking penetration would increase with energy and decrease with mass. If we scale stun inversely with penetration (a bullet that goes through leaves a clean wound vs a musket ball or hollow point leaves a painful mess), then gauss would be also get very little stun damage. By opposition, "mass driver railguns" would get lots of stun.

Yep, sounds good.

Edit: I've attached the XAE_Attack_Dogs mod I made, which includes an alien alloy vest for dogs. A quick recolor (Falko, where are you!?!? And your tools!!) to a greyscale would make it a decent modern kevlar vest for doggies.

Thanks! I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 24, 2016, 09:01:52 pm
So I need to earn a proper rifle? OK! :D
I think the M-16, or whatever the vanilla rifle is, would be fine to unlock with Promotion II. It's oddly hard to unlock it through normal means.

Quote
I'm kinda convinced that you can. For example, Stun doesn't cause (additional) stun. Fire doesn't cause fatal wounds. This sort of thing. (Unless I'm wrong?)
I'm pretty sure stun/incendiary/HE damage types are special snowflake damage types that get special treatment in the code to do something. My understanding is that what Meridian was/is offering you is a new damage type that just gets assigned a new resist type. And I don't think it's warranted to differentiate between AP/HP/Gauss/Railgun, as they all work under the same "throw mass at the target" principle, whereas the other damage types are actually different mechanism for inflicting damage (through application of energy by light for laser or super localized heat for plasma).

Quote
This sounds really good. Can you please post an example?
Quick mock-up of what I will put in StunGunz because I'm just about to finish my bus trip:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 0.8
      ToHealth: 1.74
      ToStun: 0.26

  - type: STR_NITRO_EXPRESS_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.2
      ToHealth: 1.66
      ToStun: 0.34

So a sniper rifle ignores some body armor, since it's a strictly military weapon I assume it's intended to do so. Once past resist/armor, the damage is partitioned into 13% stun and 87% heath (~15% ratio). By opposition, the Nitro sucks at taking out armored people (bulletproof vests are great at stopping hollow point is my understanding) and causes messier wounds so does 17% stun to 83% health (~20% ratio). Ratios can be tweaked, of course.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2016, 02:29:49 pm
I think the M-16, or whatever the vanilla rifle is, would be fine to unlock with Promotion II. It's oddly hard to unlock it through normal means.

The biggest problem here is this:

> Player finds an M16
> "Oh wow, such dakka, much firepower, very wow"
> researches his only M16 to buy ammo for it
> Gains nothing
> "I hate this game, must be a bug"
> trudges on throught many missions where that single M16 would be damn useful but he had to take it apart
> researches EXALT Operations and Contact Arms Dealers
> "You can now buy M16!"
> rage quit

:P

I'm pretty sure stun/incendiary/HE damage types are special snowflake damage types that get special treatment in the code to do something. My understanding is that what Meridian was/is offering you is a new damage type that just gets assigned a new resist type. And I don't think it's warranted to differentiate between AP/HP/Gauss/Railgun, as they all work under the same "throw mass at the target" principle, whereas the other damage types are actually different mechanism for inflicting damage (through application of energy by light for laser or super localized heat for plasma).

Yeah, well, I was hoping Meridian would maybe play with this, too. :)
But more damage types would be useful anyway.

Quick mock-up of what I will put in StunGunz because I'm just about to finish my bus trip:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 0.8
      ToHealth: 1.74
      ToStun: 0.26

  - type: STR_NITRO_EXPRESS_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.2
      ToHealth: 1.66
      ToStun: 0.34

So a sniper rifle ignores some body armor, since it's a strictly military weapon I assume it's intended to do so. Once past resist/armor, the damage is partitioned into 13% stun and 87% heath (~15% ratio). By opposition, the Nitro sucks at taking out armored people (bulletproof vests are great at stopping hollow point is my understanding) and causes messier wounds so does 17% stun to 83% health (~20% ratio). Ratios can be tweaked, of course.

Looks interesting. I lack the knowledge to assess it properly, so I need to study a bit. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 25, 2016, 02:38:26 pm
The biggest problem here is this:

> Player finds an M16
> "Oh wow, such dakka, much firepower, very wow"
> researches his only M16 to buy ammo for it
> Gains nothing
> "I hate this game, must be a bug"
> trudges on throught many missions where that single M16 would be damn useful but he had to take it apart
> researches EXALT Operations and Contact Arms Dealers
> "You can now buy M16!"
> rage quit

:P
Isn't there a new flag that allows you to define if an item is consumed for research or not? Modern gun research should simply not destroy that gun if possible. Also, what I was suggesting is for Promotion II to give the M16 research project free, like it does for LMGs, to offer XCOM a "proper" way of acquire its guns. That there could be an alternative path through arms dealer is perfectly fine and shouldn't break anything as the M16 doesn't have a story article (I think? Still haven't gotten it..)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2016, 03:06:24 pm
Isn't there a new flag that allows you to define if an item is consumed for research or not? Modern gun research should simply not destroy that gun if possible.

You mean it should be possible for all firearms? Maybe so. It'll be confusing for the player... But maybe it's the best way to go.

Also, what I was suggesting is for Promotion II to give the M16 research project free, like it does for LMGs, to offer XCOM a "proper" way of acquire its guns. That there could be an alternative path through arms dealer is perfectly fine and shouldn't break anything as the M16 doesn't have a story article (I think? Still haven't gotten it..)

The point is, I haven't found the perfect way to do it... It would require exclusive research to be done right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ivandogovich on September 26, 2016, 12:57:49 am
Also:  Here's a link for the OP, if you are interested.

Video Tutorial: Install X-Com Files
https://youtu.be/L1WUpX9n7gY?t=43m40s
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2016, 12:19:19 pm
Thanks, I've added it to the readme.

Speaking of, version 0.3.2 version 0.3.3 is out. Get it from here. (https://www.mediafire.com/download/sl89aud73bd8gl0/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.3.3.zip)

v. 0.3.2:
- Some changes to the Deep One Village.
- New floorob for Alien Communicator.
- Fixed a random crash with Cult Apprehension missions.
- Another fix for SOLFOREST14 map.
- Fixed wrong damage value on SMG Alloy Clips.
- Many fixes to Ufopaedia (some critical).
- More screams!

v. 0.3.3:
- Improved SMGs a bit.
- Fixed missing files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 27, 2016, 02:05:43 pm
Here is a savegame. Cult missions still appear after "Eliminate Black Lotus" and "Eliminate Exalt". Currently now there is 2 missions with black lotus on map. And no, this isnt same month when eliination was researched.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2016, 06:48:17 pm
Here is a savegame. Cult missions still appear after "Eliminate Black Lotus" and "Eliminate Exalt". Currently now there is 2 missions with black lotus on map. And no, this isnt same month when eliination was researched.

OK, I'll have a look. I might be clueless after all.

EDIT: Yeah, I haven't disabled these missions properly. I'm a horrible modder. Hotfix attached - put it in the rulesets and overwrite.

In other news, I've decided to increase accuracy of all pistols. With their limited range and increased field of vision, they needed a boost.
I'm also in the process of streamlining weapon research to please Arthanor. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 30, 2016, 07:03:28 pm
Woot! Also, I remember reading about others thinking it was surprisingly difficult to get an M16 or AK47. I can't be the only one thinking it's funky that I have to loot those from my enemies but I can fly VTOL aircrafts and deploy what are essentially soldiers (if not commandos, my guys have crazy stats) with LMGs and sniper rifles ;P

Speaking of LMGs, I love that they have snap shots, but it feels like they have really crappy accuracy overall (even on agents with 90+ accuracy). My agents are using them for melee range autoshots more than anything! I'm not sure what's best:
- increasing shot count, which buffs the weapon at range (1/3 of 9 bullets is better than 1/3 of 5), but depends for close range (once you kill your target, it doesn't matter if you could have killed it twice over but it does allow you to kill stronger enemies). I feel like maybe increasing bullets, increasing TUs by a smaller amount might work. It helps kill stuff tough stuff close up, medium stuff from farther but still isn't better than pistols which are very economical when killing softer targets (like masses of scorpions/spiders/chupacabras), or shotguns which really shine at close range (and the new spread independent of accuracy makes worse at medium range for high accuracy soldiers).

- increasing accuracy which buffs at range but also not at close range (since you can't really miss from one tile).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2016, 07:17:16 pm
Woot! Also, I remember reading about others thinking it was surprisingly difficult to get an M16 or AK47. I can't be the only one thinking it's funky that I have to loot those from my enemies but I can fly VTOL aircrafts and deploy what are essentially soldiers (if not commandos, my guys have crazy stats) with LMGs and sniper rifles ;P

I'll keep that in mind, but I need more proof that it's hard to get. :P

Speaking of LMGs, I love that they have snap shots, but it feels like they have really crappy accuracy overall (even on agents with 90+ accuracy). My agents are using them for melee range autoshots more than anything! I'm not sure what's best:
- increasing shot count, which buffs the weapon at range (1/3 of 9 bullets is better than 1/3 of 5), but depends for close range (once you kill your target, it doesn't matter if you could have killed it twice over but it does allow you to kill stronger enemies). I feel like maybe increasing bullets, increasing TUs by a smaller amount might work. It helps kill stuff tough stuff close up, medium stuff from farther but still isn't better than pistols which are very economical when killing softer targets (like masses of scorpions/spiders/chupacabras), or shotguns which really shine at close range (and the new spread independent of accuracy makes worse at medium range for high accuracy soldiers).

- increasing accuracy which buffs at range but also not at close range (since you can't really miss from one tile).

The problem is that the LMG is actually a tiered weapon, yours being the worst; so increasing its stats would force me to upgrade the better ones even further... But is it really so bad? I think it has  decent long range accuracy. Maybe it needs an improvement here, too?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 30, 2016, 07:46:56 pm
@Rifles: Well, we're treading old grounds here. I'll just say that the path to LMG/Sniper Rifles and Body Armor is obvious: You get promoted, people are happy with you so they give you better stuff. That you need to pursue shady dealers to get M16s is much less obvious (to me at least). Once you know the tech tree, it might well be that it's easier (fewer research-days) to get M16s than the rest. And no, I am not advocating making the shadily obtained M16 project a pre-requisite to obtaining hardware from proper sources :P

@LMG: Long range accuracy? My LMG has an autoshot and snap shot only. I've never used it for long range. I try to use it only from 0-1 tiles (1 being when the enemy is melee oriented and facing me and I don't want to get melee reacted to after stepping in or shooting).  My agents use their Lugers at longer ranges or call in sniper support :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 pm
@Rifles: Well, we're treading old grounds here. I'll just say that the path to LMG/Sniper Rifles and Body Armor is obvious: You get promoted, people are happy with you so they give you better stuff. That you need to pursue shady dealers to get M16s is much less obvious (to me at least). Once you know the tech tree, it might well be that it's easier (fewer research-days) to get M16s than the rest. And no, I am not advocating making the shadily obtained M16 project a pre-requisite to obtaining hardware from proper sources :P

Ah, I get it now. Then it should be fine: in the overhaul I did today, the M16 can be researched normally when found, you just can't buy them yet. But you get the info how to enable buying.

@LMG: Long range accuracy? My LMG has an autoshot and snap shot only.

Well, it has autoRange: 25. I personally think it's significant.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on September 30, 2016, 09:04:01 pm
@Rifles: I'm curious to see the update. I still think having to go to dealers for M16s when it's a nato weapon (isn't it?) is weird, but eh..

@LMG: Interesting. It didn't occur to me to check and I missed enough from a few tiles, so I used snapshots at range if I didn't have a pistol. Might be fine afterall!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2016, 09:40:18 pm
Right. Let's keep an eye on these.

Also, attached a small tribute to Meridian. :)

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24184;image)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on September 30, 2016, 09:57:49 pm
Also, attached a small tribute to Meridian. :)

Oh, this is gonna look so sweet with a custom palette!
Definitely keep the original pictures, we'll convert them later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on September 30, 2016, 11:11:32 pm
Thanks for hotfix. Small question: can you change unit maximal possible stats in-game? E.g. after some research?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 01, 2016, 01:08:57 pm
Thanks for hotfix. Small question: can you change unit maximal possible stats in-game? E.g. after some research?

Nope, sadly no. But I think you can turn a soldier into another soldier type. I think it'd mean new random stats, new name etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 01, 2016, 09:25:09 pm
Nope, sadly no. But I think you can turn a soldier into another soldier type. I think it'd mean new random stats, new name etc.
Like ... Augmentation... Can be a wonderful idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2016, 12:17:26 pm
Version 0.3.4 has been released:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/1ak1keh6i1o9ud2/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.3.4.zip

- Added Desert Eagle (by Dioxine).
- Added Steyr AUG (by Dioxine).
- Added FN FAL (author unknown).
- Added Blackops Auto-Shotgun (same sprite as the old Shotgun, new Shotgun sprite by Dioxine).
- Fixed some ruleset issues (thanks Stoddard).
- M16 Clip has more rounds.
- Jumpsuit now has camouflage and changes colours according to environment.
- Avenger now burns more fuel.
- Ironfist now burns Zrbite.
- Streamlined weapon research.
- Many bugs fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 03, 2016, 09:45:19 pm
Nice! Updates are always welcome.

I ended up getting blackops weapons before the M16, so now I've got a rifle and I'm happy :P Not my team is: 1 doggy on point, 2 blackops assault rifle high reaction scouts, 1 blackops rifle support for the center, 2 LMG highest accuracy (100+, it makes autofire much more reliable) guys on flanks, 2 agents with ~80 as snipers in the back (The damage loss is a negligible 4 points, and they all hit 100% of the time, or so the engine says....).

The team works really well! Managed to clear my first base, an EXALT one, without losing anyone but the dog (lots of injuries though). I'm still not sure how to approach Black Lotus bases though, I expect more than one assassin and so far they still average ~2 kills before I can kill them, often with one more heavily wounded. So I'm not researching the Black Lotus operations :P Hopefully I can unlock bigger transports or better personal armor before I have to deal with them!

Still very interesting experience, always tense and stressful without being outright punishing. Great work!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 03, 2016, 10:19:04 pm
I'm still not sure how to approach Black Lotus bases though, I expect more than one assassin and so far they still average ~2 kills before I can kill them, often with one more heavily wounded. So I'm not researching the Black Lotus operations :P

Sensor grenades will save you. Plenty of them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 03, 2016, 11:13:22 pm
hum.. I don't have proper proxy grenades, but that's a great idea. Adds a lot of value to landmines that I have never used... Thanks!

Now I'll set up a sniping position, blanket the area in between with mines and try to snipe anyone before they get there to keep the mines for the assassins. Might work! Much better than "deal with him when you've discovered he's there because you're already one agent down"!

EDIT: I think since the move of leather coats to the personal protection topic, and adding them as a bought armor, they've been sitting at the bottom of the purchase and sell list, in all caps. Looks like something went a bit wrong in the migration.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2016, 02:45:10 am
EDIT: I think since the move of leather coats to the personal protection topic, and adding them as a bought armor, they've been sitting at the bottom of the purchase and sell list, in all caps. Looks like something went a bit wrong in the migration.

Umm, sort of, yeah. Easy to fix though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Wolfstarr on October 04, 2016, 03:11:58 am
Awesome :)

Maybe they could run into this guy lol
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 04, 2016, 04:28:34 am
Some bug/playstart reports, from a fresh start :

Still available to buy from start: Blackops Assault cannon AA clip

Some remaining labels from X-Piratez :
- VOO and DOO from the post-mission experience screen
- LOOT button

Some weird colored rectangles in menus - I suppose these are caused by the recent experiments with palette :
- Research/ New : left of the title NEW RESEARCH PROJECTS
- Battlescape equipment : Left of the 'scroll items' button
- Battlescape equipment : The entire background of clip box (dark blue)
- Ufopedia lists : Left of label SELECT ITEM

Image of "Melee weapons" Ufopedia has a palette problem (black is pink)

Zombie (live) text is too long, gets cut at "we'll keep"

The "motel" map is nice and logical, but I find it too long (full of tiny rooms). Despite having a team of 4, I took something like 20 turns to find the 2 suspects.
Small maps are very nice in general, especially when you see enemies jump from upper floors to rush your agents.

I still find shotguns very underwhelming. Uzi seems much more accurate/reliable within ~10 tiles (Or I've been very lucky with it), and I've had shotguns miss at 2 tile distance, 3 times so far.

20000$ per corpse may need to be tweaked depending on the individual's strength. (15k per zombie, 50k+ for the big guys)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 04, 2016, 06:24:53 am
I did notice that the corpses and ransoms are quite high, but I'm a hoarder so it didn't matter. I have not observed the graphic glitches you describe though...

Two new issues:
- Exalt HQ has no text for it :/
- There still are zombies in alien life forms missions as well as zombie infestations. Which may or may not be intentional.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 04, 2016, 08:34:29 am
- There still are zombies in alien life forms missions as well as zombie infestations. Which may or may not be intentional.
I think it's a feature. Zombie infestation mission is more like a terror, with civilians wandering in their hands.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2016, 09:53:12 am
Awesome :)

Maybe they could run into this guy lol

Well, if there is a spritesheet... :)

Some bug/playstart reports, from a fresh start :

Still available to buy from start: Blackops Assault cannon AA clip

DARN!
Umm, sorry. Fixed.

Some remaining labels from X-Piratez :
- VOO and DOO from the post-mission experience screen
- LOOT button

I can't find VOO and DOO in the strings at all... Isn't it hardcoded or something?

LOOT can be changed, but I thought it was acceptable. :P

Some weird colored rectangles in menus - I suppose these are caused by the recent experiments with palette :
- Research/ New : left of the title NEW RESEARCH PROJECTS
- Battlescape equipment : Left of the 'scroll items' button
- Battlescape equipment : The entire background of clip box (dark blue)
- Ufopedia lists : Left of label SELECT ITEM

I'm not seeing anything wrong on my end. I'll recheck the archive to make sure all the files are there.

Image of "Melee weapons" Ufopedia has a palette problem (black is pink)

Again, looks fine to me. I re-converted the palette, just in case.

Zombie (live) text is too long, gets cut at "we'll keep"

Thanks, fixed.

The "motel" map is nice and logical, but I find it too long (full of tiny rooms). Despite having a team of 4, I took something like 20 turns to find the 2 suspects.
Small maps are very nice in general, especially when you see enemies jump from upper floors to rush your agents.

OK, I'll rethink them.

I still find shotguns very underwhelming. Uzi seems much more accurate/reliable within ~10 tiles (Or I've been very lucky with it), and I've had shotguns miss at 2 tile distance, 3 times so far.

I'm glad to have it in writing, since everyone is saying how great shotguns are and how Uzi is completely useless. :P

20000$ per corpse may need to be tweaked depending on the individual's strength. (15k per zombie, 50k+ for the big guys)

It's already differentiated, but perhaps not very well.

- Exalt HQ has no text for it :/

...right. :P

I think it's a feature. Zombie infestation mission is more like a terror, with civilians wandering in their hands.

Yes, something like that. There will also be special missions with some other monsters, like a spider colony.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on October 04, 2016, 10:03:22 am
I can't find VOO and DOO in the strings at all... Isn't it hardcoded or something?

It's not hardcoded, just doesn't have the usual STR_ prefix.

Code: [Select]
extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      VOO: "PST"
      DOO: "PSK"

Some weird colored rectangles in menus - I suppose these are caused by the recent experiments with palette :
- Research/ New : left of the title NEW RESEARCH PROJECTS
- Battlescape equipment : Left of the 'scroll items' button
- Battlescape equipment : The entire background of clip box (dark blue)
- Ufopedia lists : Left of label SELECT ITEM

Image of "Melee weapons" Ufopedia has a palette problem (black is pink)

Maybe add some screenshots?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2016, 11:35:13 am
Thanks! I was confused by the lack of STR_.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 04, 2016, 11:48:58 am
I'm glad to have it in writing, since everyone is saying how great shotguns are and how Uzi is completely useless. :P
Well, I had zombies generally survive one or two point-blank (pump action) shots. After that I kept to pistols - a turn shooting a colt 45 or glock seems to deal much more damage, and at a safer range.
Since Uzis, I had mostly spider/chupacabra missions, and auto shots at 15% effective precisions were very successful (maybe lucky). And since I can pair it off with a long-range pistol...

It's already differentiated, but perhaps not very well.
Oh, good, then. I thought about it because I had a very tight money spot (Started a month with a new HQ and $5000 in the bank), a zombie mission really got me out of the water. This is much different from cult suspects where I grab two sticks and a pistol :)

Color issues : Strange that only I see it. I play in windowed mode, and had the same visual artifacts in previous build also. I'll grab screenshots this evening. The palette shift IS voluntary, right ? Color ranges are no longer linear, there is a distinct change of hue when things get darker.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 04, 2016, 03:48:15 pm
Dual-wielding is surprisingly useful in this mod. Luger and Uzi, Uzi and Tazer. There are always great combinations. Also, the tonfa is very effective. My agents have taken to charging towards VIPs with a cry of "TONFA!!!" in a very piratey fashion ;)

In the early game, a combination of Luger for long range and small shotguns for short-range worked really well for me. But I'm playing on veteran "only" as it's been a while since I last played normal XCom. A few points of armor from changing difficulty levels can make a world of difference for shotguns, easily taking over the average damage and taking them from useful to useless.

Regarding colors, supsuper just made a comment regarding filters and windowed mode causing issues. You might want to look into that too. I'm pretty sure the palette is supposed to be the vanilla one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 04, 2016, 08:35:56 pm
I get the same colors, no matter windowed/fullscreen or filters. The attached F12 screenshots are straight Windowed 640/400, normal scale.
Welcome to colorblind mode :)

Edit : just checked with a "clean" install, I can see the inventory bars even in vanilla; so it seems unrelated to X-Com files. I'll come back to Meridian's OXCE+ thread when I can pinpoint a specific version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on October 05, 2016, 12:01:36 am
Lol, now I see what you mean :)

Those rectangles are a feature... quick search. try clicking in them, type something in and the game will filter the content on the screen by what you typed.

You can also turn them off (there is an option)... and just toggle them when needed by a hotkey (Q).
I just turned them on by default, so that people notice them in the first place.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 05, 2016, 12:40:54 am
Ah thanks about this explaination. I had tracked back their appearance in a very old build of OXCE+.
For the rest, I just realized I copied the UFO files from an old OpenXcom directory. And apparently I shot myself in the foot 15 months ago by starting an experiment of hex-edited PALETTES.DAT.
Ba dum, tsss.
(edit: File closed! Ruled out as a self-mutilation)

--- posts merged - Solarius Scorch ---

On a completely unrelated note, I had tested providing a partial "options.cfg", it works : these options are accepted, all others are auto-detected.
The only problem is for people who upgrade, if they blindly overwrite everything they'll lose custom settings.
Here are some suggestions, as a valid options.cfg :
Code: [Select]
options:
  # Because auto-detect language doesn't pick modified en-US strings
  language: en-US
  # Designed for
  battleUFOExtenderAccuracy: true
  # Required for data slates or something, IIRC
  spendResearchedItems: true
 
  # Should probably be used, more interesting
  storageLimitsEnforced: true
  # Should probably be used, Gym is there from start
  anytimePsiTraining: true
  # Saves time, has no downsides now, this should be default in all games/mods
  battleAutoEnd: true
  # Until somebody provides an alternative intro :)
  playIntro: false
  # I find this very helpful for manual equipping
  showMoreStatsInInventoryView: true
 
  # Personal preference
  forceFire: true
  # Personal preference
  strafe: true
mods:
  - id: xcom1
    active: true
  - active: true
    id: x-com-files
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 05, 2016, 08:26:16 am
Small bugreport: Red Dawn HQ have wrong xcom unit placement data. My soldiers start not in a vessel, but in top left corner of map.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 05, 2016, 12:27:15 pm
Small bugreport: Red Dawn HQ have wrong xcom unit placement data. My soldiers start not in a vessel, but in top left corner of map.

Can you post a save please? It's working as normal for me.

In other news: I had to change the weapon system again, because it turns out that lookup doesn't work like I hoped it would - apparently it doesn't work for techs with cost 0. So now in certain cases you can research buying a weapon, then buy it and when it appears in your base, research its properties. I'm not happy with it, but nothing I can do about it. I should publish it soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 05, 2016, 06:52:40 pm
Here you go.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 05, 2016, 08:05:03 pm
Thanks, but I'd need a save before the landing, because now I can see only as much as you have already told me... It's a pretty cool setup though, looks fine to play. :D

Also, disable the Aliens pick up weapons mod, it's redundant with XCF.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 05, 2016, 09:10:42 pm
Oops... I rewrite it a minute ago. But... i can flee and wait for next case. So here it is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 05, 2016, 09:15:38 pm
Good to know, I'm just about to attack an Exalt HQ so I'll be prepared in case it happens.

Solarius, did you try using unlock instead of lookup?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2016, 04:05:27 pm
Oops... I rewrite it a minute ago. But... i can flee and wait for next case. So here it is.

Thanks. Yeah, the same happens for me, but... When I try a Quick Battle, it's working normally! I mean, what the actual fuck?!
EDIT: Apparently it works, but only with crafts with specially defined deployment. Dragonfly is not one of them. It turns out that Hobbes left some X-Com spawn points in the base for some reason... I guess I'll have to remove them from the tileset. Will be done.

Solarius, did you try using unlock instead of lookup?

I think it'll be alright after all. :) More tests needed!


EDIT:

Version 0.3.5 has been released: https://www.mediafire.com/file/0pvhleazc902bd1/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.3.5.zip

- Blocked the backpack for some armours.
- Fixed weapon acquisition.
- Fixed some minor Ufopaedia bugs.
- Luger is now researchable.
- Improved Night Vision mode look.
- Fixed a problem with Siberia map spawns.
- 8 new faces!

Hopefully this takes care of the weapon research/purchase issue. Otherwise it's mostly a polishing thing, although I did add 8 new faces (and made some improvements to the older ones).

Hopefully from now on I can make some real progress, like advancing the arcs.

And here's an overview of some faces and armours:

(https://i.imgur.com/j3XQ2B8.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 06, 2016, 07:26:49 pm
Sorry for offtopic, but where i can read about camouflage principe? (like integrated in Jumpsuits)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2016, 10:08:29 pm
Sorry for offtopic, but where i can read about camouflage principe? (like integrated in Jumpsuits)

The basics are in the Ufopaedia, available from the start:

Quote
Camouflage, or Camo, is a property of armour that makes the wearer visible from a shorter distance than normal. This difference is expressed in tiles and denoted in the armor description.

So if a normal vision range is 40, then someone with Camo 10 is visible from range 30 or less.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 06, 2016, 11:55:26 pm
Here are a few floppies, in case you want to store secret plans of the cultists :)


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2016, 02:37:06 am
Awesome, I'll certainly try to use them. :D

By the way, a quick fix attached. Jumpsuits are bugged...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 07, 2016, 01:10:22 pm
So if a normal vision range is 40, then someone with Camo 10 is visible from range 30 or less.
Thanks. And with "no-more-glowing-xcom-soldiers", are enemies see in dark? Or they just like player units?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2016, 02:18:59 pm
Thanks. And with "no-more-glowing-xcom-soldiers", are enemies see in dark? Or they just like player units?

Which enemies? Aliens still have their NV 20 (mostly), unaided humans have 9.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 08, 2016, 12:07:22 am
Just got the latest mod and the jumpsuit fix. That green jumpsuit sure is green.. I don't know if it would be possible to integrate them, but there's some awesome armor colors in this mod (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/combat-uniform-armors) that could be used for the recolors as they have impressive camo patterns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 08, 2016, 01:11:44 pm
Just got the latest mod and the jumpsuit fix. That green jumpsuit sure is green.. I don't know if it would be possible to integrate them, but there's some awesome armor colors in this mod (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/combat-uniform-armors) that could be used for the recolors as they have impressive camo patterns.

Yeah, they are impressive... I'll see what can be done.

By the way Arthanor, how's your experiments with damageAlter? Any progress?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 08, 2016, 05:22:20 pm
I got too far into it ;P

Armor piercing, stun damage and ~12hrs working in front of a computer or commuting and staring at my phone per day did me in. I'll get back to it next week.

Also played too much ;P but now that I have an exalt HQ staring at me that I don't know how to approach, I might spend a bit more time modding.

PS. You need to update the title. It still says 3.4!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 10, 2016, 03:19:52 pm
OK, that's fine with me :)
(And I always miss at least one place when it comes to version number.)

I redid the green armours, now they're properly camo-ed. The desert ones are still as they were though, since the other version is kinda broken (and there are no boobs visible :P).


EDIT:

I have decided to share some views on the future of this mod. And maybe hear your thoughts?

My next stage will be the Syndicate. Sort of MiB-lite, they are the evil megacorporation of this setting. Equipped with BlackOps products, they are not overly dangerous, but most/all missions against them will be undercover (which means: no armour, pistols only). It will take time, because I need to make all their terrain, though maybe I'll start with something smaller - like smaller branches that spawn in cities. (It would look more natural if we could turn off their hostility towards civilians, wink wink.)

Then I plan to make something like Red Dawn 2.0. I feel that Red Dawn as a concept has more potential than just being one of the initial four, so I'd like to make a stronger faction that appears later, as the Man Behind The Man. I don't really have many ideas how it should look yet, but this decision is tied to another one: I don't like the monopoly of BlackOps Industries on the arms market, so I want to give them competition, more Russian/Chinese-themed. This new manufacturer, named M.A.G.M.A. (a shout out to Alien Shooter 2), will produce weapons like Light Cannon, Heavy Cannon and Auto-Cannon (which currently are made by X-Com), a heavy shotgun, maybe something more. I'll probably start with M.A.G.M.A. and think of the organization later, but ideas are welcome.

Another branch is the "Underdark", which is already sort of started with the cave lairs. The next step will be increasing the range of creatures (I plan to add Robin's Multiworm at the very least) and maybe fleshing it out a bit, but the most important thing will come later, when I start adding underworld civilizations. This will be the third source of trouble, after the outer space and the sea, and I'm very excited about it, but it'll take time. (Also, that's where Gauss weapons will come from.)

Then there's the Cyberweb, which I need to tie up at some point. Then I want to use more of Robin's stuff and do something like Half-Life, with Apocalypse aliens pouring out from portals. This will be directly connected to the Cyberweb, who are basically responsible for the entire affair. I don't know how far I'll get, but I would like missions in the alien dimension, ideally culminating with blowing up a Cyberweb battleship (the one from Piratez).

Then there are the Doom sprites, which should make an appearance, no? So, some sort of Cult of Apocalypse will make an appearance. Hard to say more at this point, but expect red robes and two-level missions (secure the cult base, then get to the dungeon to close the portal). Maybe a two-way trip to hell if someone makes the terrain. :P

Then there are also minor missions, like a village infested with Chryssalids, a mine infested with Cybermites, the (now abandoned) Red Dawn base infested with giant spiders, and so on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 10, 2016, 07:46:09 pm
As much as I love Doom, I have to say the ripped sprites in OpenXcom engine look awful.

You may want to avoid the name Underdark, because of very specific AD&D meaning.  What about hollow earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth) ? Even just this Wikipedia articles gives a lot of material.

In general, I'm not sure how you will handle the "rythm" of the game as you add more things. I mean, UFO goes from first downed UFO to final retaliation, in straight line. In XCOMFiles you have a lovecraftian cult trying to bring back an elder god, and in parallel you have giant arthropods appearing, and in parallel you have zombie outbreak. When the first alien will appear, the player will want to tell him "OK sorry but we are a bit busy at the moment, can you come back and invade us later?"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 10, 2016, 08:05:26 pm
Sort of ninja'd but going in the same direction:

First order comment: when do aliens show up?

In my game (which hasn't progressed at all this weekend) I assumed I had to deal with the cults before January 1999 as the aliens would show up then to follow the established time-line. If you put more human and monstrous factions, do you push back the start of the game to earlier? Or have the aliens wait until later?

I feel like once the "real" aliens (section, floater) start to show up, they would totally steal the thunder of other things (who cares about cults when the real deal is flying around?).

Or maybe have the new factions you describe as late 1998/early 1999 main enemies with a few occasional scout ufos? That would make a smooth transition from cults to aliens and have aliens be real highlights (if you can somehow down an ufo or catch a landed one).

I also think having "post-landing site" would be a great companion to the first ufo encounters. Something where you have to deal with weird viruses (or virus infected animals/people), crazy militias that showed up or just panicked citizens (have to stun the all?) to really play up the "aliens are messing up everything" effect.

Factions:
Syndicate: sounds interesting but also potentially frustrating. Armored enemies when you have low power weapons means you're more likely to get streaks of no damage which are really frustrating. If you're taking on enemies who have automatic weapons, why would you go in unarmored and barely armed? Especially since after the first enemy, you'd be silly not to grab their gun and use an automatic weapon any ways.

Also, blackops not dangerous when you don't have armor? A wound is a setback and a casualty is significant, especially on teams of ~8.

Red Dawn/Magma:
Having them as the muscle of some other organization which is intent on using alien tech to create their own state, and also push towards hi-tech, hi-power and heavy weapons (their grunts are strong, so heavy is no issue. Kind of like the gals in Piratez) would work for suppliers of cannons. Maybe the aim is to establish just good enough relationship with them that they sell weapons and interfere with the aliens/other cults instead of stirring up more problems.

Underdark:
Sounds interesting but TftD already has primordial terran lifeforms doesn't it? Maybe the tftd ones were enslaved whereas the underground ones are still free?

Also I'm a stickler for the original vanilla and gauss and sonic being innovations tied to the sea arc, maybe with the twist that the gauss weapons shoot darts so that it makes more sense as an underwater weapon.

Maybe the underground faction could be heat resistant and use heat weapons (specially designed to kill heat sensitive surface and sea creatures, especially sea creatures are generally not used to temperature variations). And to keep with the two tiers per environment, explosives would make sense for a civilization that would be based on digging.

Doom, half-life and Apocalypse sound like something that could be connected. They're all about other dimensions on a way. Maybe a play on the Devils and Demons division? Two different ways to unlock travel to other dimensions and maybe even a side "accident" effect that open up attacks from the other dimension after you experiment on the first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on October 10, 2016, 08:10:39 pm
Divide and Conquer.

Don't put everything into one giant mod...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 10, 2016, 09:40:09 pm
Quote
I feel like once the "real" aliens (section, floater) start to show up, they would totally steal the thunder of other things
Actually these early threats can be the means by which XCOM earns the technology which lets them defend against the alien. If you complete the nazi moon base arc you end up with hydra lasers and early spaceships, if you defeat the corporation which created zombies you get high-tech poison weapons, etc.
These would be alternative paths which you try to advance, at least one is required, and hopefully they give balanced rewards so any one is sufficient, though several give a more well-rounded technology.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 10, 2016, 10:23:29 pm
It's possible to integrate everything, or to have multiple mods which each have an arc, as Meridian was suggesting. And indeed, allowing XCom to build up their capabilities by investigating and seizing hardware from "human collaborators" would be pretty cool. Something to create "super-soldiers" from the zombie virus (Resident Evil like), advanced weapons from the space nazis, basic psychic powers (mind probe? Something that allows limited vision through walls?) from some other factions, etc.

I thought this was pretty much the point of the various cults already :P I haven't gone through any of the arcs yet, but it looks like each specialize in something or other in such a way that giving different, each equally valuable, goodies would make sense. So far EXALT and the Black Lotus both gave me something "alien" that look interesting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2016, 01:56:33 am
As much as I love Doom, I have to say the ripped sprites in OpenXcom engine look awful.

Sort of, yeah. :P

You may want to avoid the name Underdark, because of very specific AD&D meaning.  What about hollow earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth) ? Even just this Wikipedia articles gives a lot of material.

Yeah, I didn't seriously mean Underdark, it was just an example.

In general, I'm not sure how you will handle the "rythm" of the game as you add more things. I mean, UFO goes from first downed UFO to final retaliation, in straight line. In XCOMFiles you have a lovecraftian cult trying to bring back an elder god, and in parallel you have giant arthropods appearing, and in parallel you have zombie outbreak. When the first alien will appear, the player will want to tell him "OK sorry but we are a bit busy at the moment, can you come back and invade us later?"

Sort of ninja'd but going in the same direction:

First order comment: when do aliens show up?

In my game (which hasn't progressed at all this weekend) I assumed I had to deal with the cults before January 1999 as the aliens would show up then to follow the established time-line. If you put more human and monstrous factions, do you push back the start of the game to earlier? Or have the aliens wait until later?

I feel like once the "real" aliens (section, floater) start to show up, they would totally steal the thunder of other things (who cares about cults when the real deal is flying around?).

Or maybe have the new factions you describe as late 1998/early 1999 main enemies with a few occasional scout ufos? That would make a smooth transition from cults to aliens and have aliens be real highlights (if you can somehow down an ufo or catch a landed one).

I'd say I see my mod like a TV series from the 90's (doh) - while the most important enemy are, say, Goa'uld, most episodes are actually about other stuff. The aliens from Mars are supposedly the most important, but there are also other villains to fight. So sometimes it's Klingons, sometimes Romulans, sometimes it's Ferengi, or sometimes it's just a weird space monster. That's what I'm going at.
Does it mean there'll be less UFOs? Yes, probably. But it's too untested to be sure yet.

I also think having "post-landing site" would be a great companion to the first ufo encounters. Something where you have to deal with weird viruses (or virus infected animals/people), crazy militias that showed up or just panicked citizens (have to stun the all?) to really play up the "aliens are messing up everything" effect.

Yes, good idea, but your rewards should be very limited. Would you have any suggestions on how to do it without an actual UFO wreck? (Because Alien Alloys should be hard to get.)

Factions:
Syndicate: sounds interesting but also potentially frustrating. Armored enemies when you have low power weapons means you're more likely to get streaks of no damage which are really frustrating. If you're taking on enemies who have automatic weapons, why would you go in unarmored and barely armed? Especially since after the first enemy, you'd be silly not to grab their gun and use an automatic weapon any ways.

That's the plan. :P

Also, blackops not dangerous when you don't have armor? A wound is a setback and a casualty is significant, especially on teams of ~8.

I meant they're relatively non-dangerous, when compared to other mid-tier enemies like Cyberweb Nomads. Not easy! :)

Red Dawn/Magma:
Having them as the muscle of some other organization which is intent on using alien tech to create their own state, and also push towards hi-tech, hi-power and heavy weapons (their grunts are strong, so heavy is no issue. Kind of like the gals in Piratez) would work for suppliers of cannons. Maybe the aim is to establish just good enough relationship with them that they sell weapons and interfere with the aliens/other cults instead of stirring up more problems.

Yes, there's a plan to make them "quest givers", where you do stuff for them in exchange for new products. And there's a corporate war going on... :)

Underdark:
Sounds interesting but TftD already has primordial terran lifeforms doesn't it? Maybe the tftd ones were enslaved whereas the underground ones are still free?

Sort of, yes. It's rather unclear though, it's been 65 million years. :)

Also I'm a stickler for the original vanilla and gauss and sonic being innovations tied to the sea arc, maybe with the twist that the gauss weapons shoot darts so that it makes more sense as an underwater weapon.

Making Gauss an underwater weapon was so unimaginably stupid that I'm not even going to try, sorry. I normally would, since I appreciate canonicity, but not here... :P

Maybe the underground faction could be heat resistant and use heat weapons (specially designed to kill heat sensitive surface and sea creatures, especially sea creatures are generally not used to temperature variations). And to keep with the two tiers per environment, explosives would make sense for a civilization that would be based on digging.

Spot on! You get XP :)

Doom, half-life and Apocalypse sound like something that could be connected. They're all about other dimensions on a way. Maybe a play on the Devils and Demons division? Two different ways to unlock travel to other dimensions and maybe even a side "accident" effect that open up attacks from the other dimension after you experiment on the first.
[/quote]

Can you please elaborate? Like, the X-Com Apocalypse Aliens are devils, and the Doom demons are demons?

Divide and Conquer.

Don't put everything into one giant mod...

Meh. :P

...but as a serious response, this wouldn't make sense, because the entire point of this mod is to be all that. I wouldn't be interested in these as separate mods, because they would be all too shallow and monotonous. The X-Com Files mod has been conceived and planned for exactly this kind of narration, it's not an accidental result. So I know perfectly well what I'm trying to achieve in general and I believe it'll work.

Actually these early threats can be the means by which XCOM earns the technology which lets them defend against the alien. If you complete the nazi moon base arc you end up with hydra lasers and early spaceships, if you defeat the corporation which created zombies you get high-tech poison weapons, etc.
These would be alternative paths which you try to advance, at least one is required, and hopefully they give balanced rewards so any one is sufficient, though several give a more well-rounded technology.

I'm not sure how deep it will go, but yes, this is more or less how I see it. It also depends on RNG, because different factions will show up.

P.S. The first original M.A.G.M.A. weapon - Thresher Heavy Shotgun, or Double-Barrelled on Steroids:

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24343;image)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 11, 2016, 02:55:16 am
I'd say I see my mod like a TV series from the 90's (doh) - while the most important enemy are, say, Goa'uld, most episodes are actually about other stuff. The aliens from Mars are supposedly the most important, but there are also other villains to fight. So sometimes it's Klingons, sometimes Romulans, sometimes it's Ferengi, or sometimes it's just a weird space monster. That's what I'm going at.
Does it mean there'll be less UFOs? Yes, probably. But it's too untested to be sure yet.
That's fine by me. I very much like the idea of investigating all kind of crazy stuff at once. I also don't find single topic straight-line games as interesting, which is why I really like race/alternate weapons mods and megamods. I was worried that you'd have players fight off the cults and XYZ other factions while also defeating a full blown alien invasion. It's one thing that I think is really hard to get right when building megamods: pacing. You want the variety, but you also want enough time in between fights (or short enough projects) that research progresses between fights so that the player has a sense of progression instead of getting a feeling of being "stalled".

Quote
Yes, good idea, but your rewards should be very limited. Would you have any suggestions on how to do it without an actual UFO wreck? (Because Alien Alloys should be hard to get.)
Traces of Elerium from crop circles? (investigate 1, research Elerium trace, unlock "Elerium combination" that yields 1 Elerium from 5-10 traces. As an alternate way to start Elerium research. Maybe use the random containers so that once in a while the aliens forget a piece of equipment behind or something. Or you find an abduction victim and remove their implant so you can research it. Maybe 1 alien alloy from a UFO smashing into something? Instead of a UFO, put a mapblock with a crop circle (elerium trace), a parked car or house for the alien abduction, or a smashed up building/tree for the alien alloy.

Quote
That's the plan. :P
Alright :P I hope you get it right because it sounds... tricky. A game should be fun. XCom managed the hardcore enemies by making them manageable to kill even if they killed your guys, with the exception, maybe, of lobstermen although they weren't that bad. Similar with the original Piratez personal armored enemies, which were also manageable with bombs. Unarmored and with pistols against armored and armed enemies is the wrong kind of scary for a game. The right kind for a movie (since plot armor will make it happen).

Quote
I meant they're relatively non-dangerous, when compared to other mid-tier enemies like Cyberweb Nomads. Not easy! :)
Alright!

Quote
Yes, there's a plan to make them "quest givers", where you do stuff for them in exchange for new products. And there's a corporate war going on... :)
Interesting!

Quote
Sort of, yes. It's rather unclear though, it's been 65 million years. :)
Looking forward to researching it :P

Quote
Making Gauss an underwater weapon was so unimaginably stupid that I'm not even going to try, sorry. I normally would, since I appreciate canonicity, but not here... :P
Well, fair enough. ;) I was going to say "maybe keep the sprites?" but that'd probably be confusing.

Quote
Spot on! You get XP :)
Woot!

Quote
Can you please elaborate? Like, the X-Com Apocalypse Aliens are devils, and the Doom demons are demons?
Yes, I'm not sure which would be which, since the Apocalypse ones seem more organic and less organized, whereas in Doom I think the forces of Hell are somewhat organized, so it might be that Apocalypse ones are the "chaotic evil" demons and the Doom ones would be devils? Lining up the names is not necessary though, Doom and Apocalypse are both great names too for other dimensions: The Kingdom of Doom and the Realm of the Apocalypse? And the main ideas are to play them off each other to emphasize how different these takes on "other dimension" are and to have the two arcs cross since they are both are about extra-dimensional beings: you could have XCom investigate the satanic cults, find a way to access the Hell dimension, but dial the wrong number and go into the Apocalypse one instead, then they get interested and start coming (could also explain the break in continuity: instead of coming whenever they do in Apocalypse). Or vice versa: Study alien portals, open your own, step in and end up in Doom Hell instead of Apocalypse other dimension. Then so far nonthreatening demon/witch cults benefit from the "break in the wall between dimensions" and actually manage to summon stuff and become a real problem.

Quote
...but as a serious response, this wouldn't make sense, because the entire point of this mod is to be all that. I wouldn't be interested in these as separate mods, because they would be all too shallow and monotonous. The X-Com Files mod has been conceived and planned for exactly this kind of narration, it's not an accidental result. So I know perfectly well what I'm trying to achieve in general and I believe it'll work.

I'm not sure how deep it will go, but yes, this is more or less how I see it. It also depends on RNG, because different factions will show up.
Sounds great :D

Quote
P.S. The first original M.A.G.M.A. weapon - Thresher Heavy Shotgun, or Double-Barrelled on Steroids:

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24343;image)
Does look heavy duty!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2016, 11:36:34 am
That's fine by me. I very much like the idea of investigating all kind of crazy stuff at once. I also don't find single topic straight-line games as interesting, which is why I really like race/alternate weapons mods and megamods. I was worried that you'd have players fight off the cults and XYZ other factions while also defeating a full blown alien invasion. It's one thing that I think is really hard to get right when building megamods: pacing. You want the variety, but you also want enough time in between fights (or short enough projects) that research progresses between fights so that the player has a sense of progression instead of getting a feeling of being "stalled".

Well, I don't think it'll be very different, except maybe for toning down the frequency of some missions. I'm not really sure it'll be necessary, since for example terror missions will generally be easier to win, with all the weapons you collect from various sources and your squad maxed out on cultists.

Traces of Elerium from crop circles? (investigate 1, research Elerium trace, unlock "Elerium combination" that yields 1 Elerium from 5-10 traces. As an alternate way to start Elerium research.

You mean a special Farm mapblock? Sure, can be done. And the "elerium trace" would be a recoverable tile, like UFO Navigation? (I can imagine some glowing stains on the ground.)
But what would the player do at such a site? Whom would they battle? Certainly not the farmer who called the police... ;)

Maybe use the random containers so that once in a while the aliens forget a piece of equipment behind or something.

Like an unimplanted alien fetus? I have the resources, and the description by Juku. :P
Yeah, various alien artifacts would be fun. But most of them wouldn't give you anything practical, like Alien Food.

Or you find an abduction victim and remove their implant so you can research it.

Or... an alien fetus! :P

Maybe 1 alien alloy from a UFO smashing into something? Instead of a UFO, put a mapblock with a crop circle (elerium trace), a parked car or house for the alien abduction, or a smashed up building/tree for the alien alloy.

I'm not sure I can spawn multiple "UFOs" per map, but surely something can be done. These are technicalities.
It looks like yet another arc... :)

Alright :P I hope you get it right because it sounds... tricky. A game should be fun. XCom managed the hardcore enemies by making them manageable to kill even if they killed your guys, with the exception, maybe, of lobstermen although they weren't that bad. Similar with the original Piratez personal armored enemies, which were also manageable with bombs. Unarmored and with pistols against armored and armed enemies is the wrong kind of scary for a game. The right kind for a movie (since plot armor will make it happen).

Yeah, well... What can I say? I'll balance it as many times as necessary. :)

Well, fair enough. ;) I was going to say "maybe keep the sprites?" but that'd probably be confusing.[/quote]

The sprites will be the same as in the FMP, which is more or less the original TFTD look.

Yes, I'm not sure which would be which, since the Apocalypse ones seem more organic and less organized, whereas in Doom I think the forces of Hell are somewhat organized, so it might be that Apocalypse ones are the "chaotic evil" demons and the Doom ones would be devils? Lining up the names is not necessary though, Doom and Apocalypse are both great names too for other dimensions: The Kingdom of Doom and the Realm of the Apocalypse? And the main ideas are to play them off each other to emphasize how different these takes on "other dimension" are and to have the two arcs cross since they are both are about extra-dimensional beings: you could have XCom investigate the satanic cults, find a way to access the Hell dimension, but dial the wrong number and go into the Apocalypse one instead, then they get interested and start coming (could also explain the break in continuity: instead of coming whenever they do in Apocalypse). Or vice versa: Study alien portals, open your own, step in and end up in Doom Hell instead of Apocalypse other dimension. Then so far nonthreatening demon/witch cults benefit from the "break in the wall between dimensions" and actually manage to summon stuff and become a real problem.
Sounds great :D

Good stuff! Some of it is actually already planned, and the rest will be sorted out later. (The ones responsible for the portals will be
Cyberweb
though.)

EDIT: An example of a crop circle. ;)

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24344;image)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 11, 2016, 04:51:08 pm
First off: I decided to tackle my EXALT HQ. First strike: My crack team of agents in armored vests and using BlackOps weapons step in essentially weaponless and wearing business attire. Not a success. I discover it's a mansion, with 8 guys and without motion scanner. Holy..! Reload. Setup a different team matrix style: Leather Jacket, dual-wield Luger and BlackOps SMG, grab a few grenades, tonfas and combat knives. Lugers shootings in big hallways, SMGs in small corridors, grenades against the armored dudes, until I find the brainer (really cool looking! Almost more alien than a sectoid!), smack him in the head with a tonfa, rush in with a knife to kill another armored dude. Then fighting retreat to the roof and grabbing a cane on the way. Very intimidating and turned out to be great fun!

Well, I don't think it'll be very different, except maybe for toning down the frequency of some missions. I'm not really sure it'll be necessary, since for example terror missions will generally be easier to win, with all the weapons you collect from various sources and your squad maxed out on cultists.
The issue is not really difficulty, but the chore of having to "clean" off a whole bunch of missions with what is essentially a static setup, which becomes boring. It's one reason I gave up on XPiratez. And you can't really not respond since you still need to score points for your month.

Quote
You mean a special Farm mapblock? Sure, can be done. And the "elerium trace" would be a recoverable tile, like UFO Navigation? (I can imagine some glowing stains on the ground.)
But what would the player do at such a site? Whom would they battle? Certainly not the farmer who called the police... ;)
Yup, instead of a UFO mapblock, it'd be a special crop circle mapblock. Elerium trace could be an item or a tile, glowing stains works for sure. Maybe you need to find and "control" (stun) the farmer so he can be debriefed properly and not spread rumors. Or wipe off his memory MiB style. Or on other instances there's some elerium or virus tainted life-forms you need to capture? The main point is to provide players with a feel that there are UFOs and build up the hype, while also providing little bits of tech and trivia.

Quote
Like an unimplanted alien fetus? I have the resources, and the description by Juku. :P
I meant one of the sectoids forgot his plasma pistol clip, or his mind probe after putting it down to go to the toilet :P A fetus seems a bit extreme of a thing to forget behind!

Quote
Yeah, various alien artifacts would be fun. But most of them wouldn't give you anything practical, like Alien Food.
Alien food (from a cattle mutilation site?), some alien iPad, a pistol/clip/mind probe? Little things.

Quote
Or... an alien fetus! :P
Sure..! You find a poor woman and her alien baby.

Quote
I'm not sure I can spawn multiple "UFOs" per map, but surely something can be done. These are technicalities.
Nah, I was listing examples of sites. There would be either a crop circle, a car or a smashed shed, not all of them at once (All together it's a bit much, unless you want a drunk college sectoid road trip where they make graffiti, smash things up and have sex :P)

Quote
It looks like yet another arc... :)
Quote
Good stuff! Some of it is actually already planned, and the rest will be sorted out later. (The ones responsible for the portals will be
Cyberweb
though.)
Nice! I'm glad you like the ideas :D

I'm curious to find out how you link the portals. Seems unintuitive to me, but that's good!

Quote
EDIT: An example of a crop circle. ;)
Nice work! Very fast :)
I wish I had a Linux mapview. There's all kinds of interesting designs to make:
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/04/13/2BF644D100000578-3222358-image-m-95_1441369285690.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 11, 2016, 05:23:03 pm

I'd say I see my mod like a TV series from the 90's (doh) - while the most important enemy are, say, Goa'uld, most episodes are actually about other stuff. The aliens from Mars are supposedly the most important, but there are also other villains to fight. So sometimes it's Klingons, sometimes Romulans, sometimes it's Ferengi, or sometimes it's just a weird space monster. That's what I'm going at.


Just try not disperse yourself too much, so you can one day finish this mod. And we will pray to elder undersea gods for you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 11, 2016, 06:52:35 pm
Quick pick: The tech tree viewer doesn't show the topic you're currently looking at because there's a bug in the strings. It should be something like:

Code: [Select]
STR_TOPIC: "Topic>{ALT} {0}"
Edit: Just researched that Brainer. Wall o' text alert! I don't really know how to chop it, but it doesn't even half fit in the space :P In fact, I think there should be a different article to contain all of the following to another article titled something like "EXALT Termination strategy" since it has nothing to do with the Brainer any ways.
"Considering that the rank-and-file members of EXALT are mostly controlled with Psiclone distribution, there is a way to win without a prolonged war: use this EXALT weapon against them. We can now understand how the Psiclone works well enough to develop a counter-wave that will disrupt the functioning of these devices over large swathes of land. Before our enemies adjust their signal, we will flood the market with our cracked Psiclones which will be just as good but functioning and, you know, not forcing you into an alien army in exchange. This should render the EXALT harmless enough for us to no longer care about it. Just give the order, Commander."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 11, 2016, 08:45:19 pm
Crash report:
[11-10-2016 20:15:59]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 301) >= this->size() (which is 296)
[11-10-2016 20:16:00]   [FATAL]   Crash dump generated at E:\Arch\G\Openxcom\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\11-10-2016_20-15-59.dmp
[11-10-2016 20:16:14]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 301) >= this->size() (which is 296)

In alien turn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 11, 2016, 09:24:37 pm
There's something funky about STR_CULT_CONTAINED. After interrogating a brainer and getting STR_BRAINER_CRACKED, the cult contained is not granted.

I tested removing the "needItem: true" statement of STR_CULT_CONTAINED and it was properly granted when researching the brainer.

Also, given that it takes a month for the EXALT Termination project to come into effect and it can spawn multiple times, I think it would be nice to not have a despawn penalty for the EXALT HQ site so we can safely ignore it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2016, 10:56:42 pm
First off: I decided to tackle my EXALT HQ. First strike: My crack team of agents in armored vests and using BlackOps weapons step in essentially weaponless and wearing business attire. Not a success. I discover it's a mansion, with 8 guys and without motion scanner. Holy..! Reload. Setup a different team matrix style: Leather Jacket, dual-wield Luger and BlackOps SMG, grab a few grenades, tonfas and combat knives. Lugers shootings in big hallways, SMGs in small corridors, grenades against the armored dudes, until I find the brainer (really cool looking! Almost more alien than a sectoid!), smack him in the head with a tonfa, rush in with a knife to kill another armored dude. Then fighting retreat to the roof and grabbing a cane on the way. Very intimidating and turned out to be great fun!

Nice!
I think I should give more warnings or something. :P

The issue is not really difficulty, but the chore of having to "clean" off a whole bunch of missions with what is essentially a static setup, which becomes boring. It's one reason I gave up on XPiratez. And you can't really not respond since you still need to score points for your month.

Yeah, I get what you mean. We'll see.

Yup, instead of a UFO mapblock, it'd be a special crop circle mapblock. Elerium trace could be an item or a tile, glowing stains works for sure. Maybe you need to find and "control" (stun) the farmer so he can be debriefed properly and not spread rumors. Or wipe off his memory MiB style. Or on other instances there's some elerium or virus tainted life-forms you need to capture? The main point is to provide players with a feel that there are UFOs and build up the hype, while also providing little bits of tech and trivia.

Wouldn't hunting farmers be interesting? I don't think so, and it would look a little weird. If we really want him that badly, why not just approach him? What are we going to do with him?

Or, hmm... Actually, it could work! Thanks, I'll work on this!

I meant one of the sectoids forgot his plasma pistol clip, or his mind probe after putting it down to go to the toilet :P A fetus seems a bit extreme of a thing to forget behind!

Yeah, but how can I miss such an obvious trope? :)
And I was thinking more like, some alien toilet paper rather than a plasma pistol... :P Well, just trash, anyway. I think it'd be more interesting. But I can't focus too much on this...

Alien food (from a cattle mutilation site?), some alien iPad, a pistol/clip/mind probe? Little things.

Yes, exactly this kind of things.

Sure..! You find a poor woman and her alien baby.

Man, this could be a unique arc. A story arc.
>MIND BLOWN<

Nah, I was listing examples of sites. There would be either a crop circle, a car or a smashed shed, not all of them at once (All together it's a bit much, unless you want a drunk college sectoid road trip where they make graffiti, smash things up and have sex :P)

See, now I need to make this :q

Nice! I'm glad you like the ideas :D

I'm curious to find out how you link the portals. Seems unintuitive to me, but that's good!
Nice work! Very fast :)

I wish I had a Linux mapview. There's all kinds of interesting designs to make
[/quote]

Isn't the source code available? I'd think it would...

Quick pick: The tech tree viewer doesn't show the topic you're currently looking at because there's a bug in the strings. It should be something like:

Code: [Select]
STR_TOPIC: "Topic>{ALT} {0}"

Ah thanks, I completely forgot about this feature.

Edit: Just researched that Brainer. Wall o' text alert! I don't really know how to chop it, but it doesn't even half fit in the space :P In fact, I think there should be a different article to contain all of the following to another article titled something like "EXALT Termination strategy" since it has nothing to do with the Brainer any ways.

Thanks... I... That's embarrassing. :) I'll fix it somehow. Maybe make another research for the Brainer as an organism.

Crash report:
[11-10-2016 20:15:59]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 301) >= this->size() (which is 296)
[11-10-2016 20:16:00]   [FATAL]   Crash dump generated at E:\Arch\G\Openxcom\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\11-10-2016_20-15-59.dmp
[11-10-2016 20:16:14]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 301) >= this->size() (which is 296)

In alien turn.

OK, I'll check and get back to you later.

There's something funky about STR_CULT_CONTAINED. After interrogating a brainer and getting STR_BRAINER_CRACKED, the cult contained is not granted.

I tested removing the "needItem: true" statement of STR_CULT_CONTAINED and it was properly granted when researching the brainer.

Perhaps because it's a nasty bug, which must be fixed right now. :P
Thanks for catching this, it's a critical one...

And by the way, here's the new Grenade Launcher made by M.A.G.M.A. Weighs 26, plus 8 per 3 rounds... But it has automatic fire!

EDIT: Meridian, if you read this, could you please check Nord's savegame? I can't see anything obvious...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 11, 2016, 11:20:07 pm
Re: EXALT HQ
Yeah, that missing article will come in handy ;) Termination also has no article :(

Re: Farmer capture
Well, maybe you have only a few turns to capture him before he tells the world? So it's a timed mission. It ends in.. 5 turns? kill/stun the farmer, but kill has negative points for the whole thing. Only stun has positive points. So it's a mad rush where you don't have to worry about safety (the farmer only has his birdshot shotgun or a pitchfork/shovel, at most) but you really need to worry about time. I don't know, it'd be a change of pace. Also, maybe once in a while the aliens are still around and if you don't get out in time, they blow you up from their UFO :P (so fail after 5 turns and you lose the strike team). Obviously there should be a different briefing to warn the player if the UFO is there.

Re: Loot
Well, a plasma pistol which you can't use for 4 years because the research to use it is so long is just about as useless as alien toilet paper :P And it highlights the fact that these things are expendable for the aliens.

Re: Mapview:
The source is available, and I managed to run it before, but the problem is in some graphic library which doesn't render transparency in Linux and instead draws transparent pixels black. This means the whole map is pretty much black squares, with only the front graphics showing.

Re: Automatic Grenade Launcher
Very interesting! Constant reload is the normal grenade launcher's main issue. That'll be fun :D

Edit: Attacked a Church of Dagon base (the big paper wall house thing)
They had super cute frog pets but I couldn't bring one home since they're considered aliens :( Doesn't it live happily in a turtle basin? Also ended up being a training run, as I didn't distinguish the sorcerer from the chosen and killed them all. He had a fancy staff, but anyone can have a fancy staff.. I'll be on the lookout next time! Was a fun fight any ways. Love the paper walls, so much fun to shoot LMGs and destroy everything :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2016, 02:05:41 pm
Re: EXALT HQ
Yeah, that missing article will come in handy ;) Termination also has no article :(

The lack of termination article is bugging me too, but I keep forgetting about it. :P

Re: Farmer capture
Well, maybe you have only a few turns to capture him before he tells the world? So it's a timed mission. It ends in.. 5 turns? kill/stun the farmer, but kill has negative points for the whole thing. Only stun has positive points. So it's a mad rush where you don't have to worry about safety (the farmer only has his birdshot shotgun or a pitchfork/shovel, at most) but you really need to worry about time. I don't know, it'd be a change of pace. Also, maybe once in a while the aliens are still around and if you don't get out in time, they blow you up from their UFO :P (so fail after 5 turns and you lose the strike team). Obviously there should be a different briefing to warn the player if the UFO is there.

I did some work on it today, I have the farmer, the mission, some basic researches... It's not exactly complete, but it works. Well, except for the 10 turns limit, perhaps it's not in OXCE+ yet?

Re: Loot
Well, a plasma pistol which you can't use for 4 years because the research to use it is so long is just about as useless as alien toilet paper :P And it highlights the fact that these things are expendable for the aliens.

True, true :) I'll think about it later.

Re: Mapview:
The source is available, and I managed to run it before, but the problem is in some graphic library which doesn't render transparency in Linux and instead draws transparent pixels black. This means the whole map is pretty much black squares, with only the front graphics showing.

I really wish it would be fixed, we need more maps and Linux people are creative.

But I gotta ask, what's the problem with having Windows installed too?

Edit: Attacked a Church of Dagon base

The "dog" requiring Alien Containment is a bug. :/ You can add it to your save...

A Sorcerer is easy to distinguish from a Chosen by its facial tentacles. :) Of course it's not as easy when he's only showing you his back.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 12, 2016, 02:41:07 pm
This difficulty of recognizing specific opponent is still problematic in general. This reminds me an idea I had :
You can emphasize an important human NPC by having him carry a briefcase in hand. Using the same sort of held sprite as the big medikit, it's noticeable from all sides, and it would really fit the spy / secret society theme. However this requires the guy to be efficient with a one-handed weapon.
The item itself may be unimportant (it's only an accessory), if you don't want the player to wonder too much about it, you can make it non-recoverable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2016, 03:15:09 pm
My computer sucks, that's why I don't have both :P but it suckling made me think "well, XCom was awesome and it's from 94, I should be able to run it! Then I discovered openxcom.com :D"

We get a puppy! The staff will be happy :)

And for the sorcerer, he had a big staff which was sort of a give away too, but I thought it was a chosen with a psi panic weapon, so I killed it before looking (one of my snipers kept panicking and you don't want a berserk sniper behind you). Attacking from the north was a bit unfortunate for that. You see the side or back most of the time. But I like those maps so it'll be fine to go there again. And maybe I'll manage to get promotion 3 before so I can bring heavy weapons :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2016, 03:21:47 pm
This difficulty of recognizing specific opponent is still problematic in general. This reminds me an idea I had :
You can emphasize an important human NPC by having him carry a briefcase in hand. Using the same sort of held sprite as the big medikit, it's noticeable from all sides, and it would really fit the spy / secret society theme. However this requires the guy to be efficient with a one-handed weapon.
The item itself may be unimportant (it's only an accessory), if you don't want the player to wonder too much about it, you can make it non-recoverable.

Yes, it's a good idea, though naturally it can only be used for certain enemies. Oh well, in the vanilla there are no clues whatsoever! :)


And maybe I'll manage to get promotion 3 before so I can bring heavy weapons :D

Good luck, though it won't be easy :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2016, 04:44:40 pm
But mind probes are much more accessible (and captures much less of an issue).

I must say: I really like the lead up to 1999 and the anticipation of the alien invasion. Normally, knowing the time-line of a game makes it more predictable and less interesting (oh, snake men in the spring! Big surprise..), but in this case, the "doomsday clock" running down to January 1999 and the "will I be ready for the aliens?" anxiety is really enjoyable. It's making me invest more in HQs (4 now, one in each of my first 4 bases) so I can get a setup that is similar to what XCom normally starts with.

Granted, I have way more cash, way more bases and way more, much better trained men than a normal starting XCom, but trying to get a lab setup (researching it now), proper aircrafts and weapons (still missing cannons and rocket launchers), some radars (researching large ones now) and dealing with cults so they're not in my way when the aliens show up feels right. Something is coming from the depths of space and we, little humans, scramble busily to get ready like ants before winter.

The added pressure changes "I should do XYZ" into "I must do XYZ now if I want to be ready" and makes the game much more motivating. Very nicely done!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on October 12, 2016, 05:34:36 pm
I have no problem with characters looking the same. I only want to point out that in EU/TFTD, you can't rotate the camera because you never NEED to. With enemies whose face varies, you suddenly get this need, and the function is not there.
It feels quite frustrating that your soldiers can be looking straight at an enemy, but all you see is his back, and you can't tell them 'If he's wearing glasses, we need him alive'.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2016, 06:27:56 pm
There we go! We need a "Soldiers refuse to use lethal weapons on funky looking enemies" feature!

- Kill this guy! His weird chant is making Jones shoot everywhere!
- No sir! It's a mess of writhing tentacles under that hood! I ain't shootin' that one *charges in with a tonfa and gets his brain eaten*
-  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2016, 09:47:38 pm
Haha :)

OK, I'll think of some new colour for either the Chosen or the Sorcerer. Dark blue perhaps.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2016, 10:17:29 pm
If the guy is supposed to be recognizable (agents would presumably recognize someone with a face full of tentacles as standing out) then it'd make sense to work from all angles for the player's sake. Deep blue sounds good. I thought it was worthy of a comment since that capture was the main reason to go there in the first place (I'll certainly be 1000% on the lookout when I assault a black lotus base, since I don't want to do that more than once).

In general though, I think it's entirely fine to say: "Well, modern officers don't always behave like space marines ones". Dressing like the grunts to avoid getting sniped is a legitimate counter to "snipe the officers!" which itself is sort of "sniper 101". Especially for aliens who might have a gestalt consciousness and so have absolutely no need to mark rank visually. In cults, if you're the big guy you probably want it to be known though.

Although funnily enough, the higher ranks that dress funky in XCom tend to survive better than those who hide, since they're worth interrogating. But getting interrogated might not be a great experience, or much better than a quick end.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 13, 2016, 02:26:29 am
All right, here's your blue mage! :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Wolfstarr on October 13, 2016, 02:38:48 am
OMG that is amazing! Xcom is definitely needing more lovecraftian enemies!

Did you draw that yourself Scorch?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 13, 2016, 03:18:04 am
OMG that is amazing! Xcom is definitely needing more lovecraftian enemies!

Did you draw that yourself Scorch?

Thanks! Yeah, I drew the head, the robe is an automatic recolour from Ethereal.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on October 13, 2016, 09:02:47 pm
Hi again!

I've updated my personal take on the X-Com Files to 0.3.5 and added some new things:


I'm kinda reluctant to release any of this right now, since Solarius is likely to produce a 0.4 before I playtest my changes enought to know they're stable (I've caught SO MANY rather trivial errors that it's not even funny any more, and I'm beginning to dread changing anything in research.rul).  :'(

But I've thought a bit about the future of the mod and have two rather concrete suggestions and a couple of observations.

The primary proposal would be to use more of the excellent maps Hobbes has created for his Area 51 mod, and a few from XenoOps. There are forgotten pyramids, an arctic listening post, a bunch of 'secret' installations, the iconic cargo/cruise ship terror missions, and more. They'd definitely give a whole new life to the presently somewhat skeletal T'leth arc.

The second suggestion is to move more towards 'classic' UFOlogy and instead of creating brand-new factions, flesh out the Hybrids, Men in Black and Reptoids. They're the most recognizable and integrate into the overall 'secret invasion' theme far better than evil megacorps or Doom portals to Hell.

For instance, you can have a cattle mutilation site, find an abandoned organ extractor there, stun the (understandably angry) farmer who's now a security risk, interrogate him and track down the Hybrid team responsible for the deed. Or a bunch of compromised Hybrids in some backwater try to signal their masters with crop circles and after some investigation you have a chance of finding a Small Scout delivering new Alien Communicators, or codes, or fetuses, or ... something.  :-\

Maybe as a result of the intel you can intercept and stop another Hybrid team from impregnating a woman with the 'evil Alien fetus', which I stole from XenoOps. And then the MiB might interfere with all this...

Reptoids could also be a secret society, perhaps even rivals of the T'leth aliens. Say, as the original Atlanteans, whose empire was destroyed by the arrival of T'leth and who are now manipulating humans to get back at them.

There are some more barebones ideas at https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6480-the-truth-is-in-here-4-if-x-com-were-more-fortean/ (https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6480-the-truth-is-in-here-4-if-x-com-were-more-fortean/).

Random thoughts:

There could also be some limited space missions before Cydonia, using the environmental damage ruleset. I'm not so keen on Moon Nazis, but if done well, they might work out.

Cults upgrading to existing factions, like the Church of Dagon already does:

CoD -> UW aliens, EXALT -> MiB, Red Dawn -> Cyberweb/MAGMA, Black Lotus -> Hybrids.

More utility for alien corpses, a la NuXCOM. You could, say, get some kind of alien blood serum with regenerative properties from Reptoids/Snakemen, combat implants from Gazers, psychoactive brain tissue from Sectoids/Cerebreals, repairable armor from Ethereals. These are just random examples, I'm sure Solarius can think (or ask for!) more and better ideas.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 13, 2016, 10:49:16 pm
Hi again!

Oh, good to see you!

I'm kinda reluctant to release any of this right now, since Solarius is likely to produce a 0.4 before I playtest my changes enought to know they're stable (I've caught SO MANY rather trivial errors that it's not even funny any more, and I'm beginning to dread changing anything in research.rul).  :'(

Yes, that's why it is best to make a mod to a mod. Or make your own separate mod. The changes are constant, I don't think you can follow them... Plus it would be way easier to analyse your mod ;)

But I've thought a bit about the future of the mod and have two rather concrete suggestions and a couple of observations.

The primary proposal would be to use more of the excellent maps Hobbes has created for his Area 51 mod, and a few from XenoOps. There are forgotten pyramids, an arctic listening post, a bunch of 'secret' installations, the iconic cargo/cruise ship terror missions, and more. They'd definitely give a whole new life to the presently somewhat skeletal T'leth arc.

Yeah, I need to spend some time on updating my maps library. It's hard work though, so I've been putting it off. ;)
By the way, I'm all for additions to the arcs, and yes, T'leth is rather bare bones now, so if someone wants a crack at this... :P

The second suggestion is to move more towards 'classic' UFOlogy and instead of creating brand-new factions, flesh out the Hybrids, Men in Black and Reptoids. They're the most recognizable and integrate into the overall 'secret invasion' theme far better than evil megacorps or Doom portals to Hell.

I can understand Doom, but megacorps? How can you have a game about secret conspiracy stuff without megacorps? :)
But yes, all of these elements are planned. The thing is, there are power tiers, and the ones you're speaking of are of a higher tier than the Syndicate. So they're kind of scheduled for later. But I just made an additional Men in Black mission yesterday, so it's not like I'm doing nothing with them.

For instance, you can have a cattle mutilation site, find an abandoned organ extractor there, stun the (understandably angry) farmer who's now a security risk, interrogate him and track down the Hybrid team responsible for the deed. Or a bunch of compromised Hybrids in some backwater try to signal their masters with crop circles and after some investigation you have a chance of finding a Small Scout delivering new Alien Communicators, or codes, or fetuses, or ... something.  :-\

Maybe as a result of the intel you can intercept and stop another Hybrid team from impregnating a woman with the 'evil Alien fetus', which I stole from XenoOps. And then the MiB might interfere with all this...

All awesome ideas.

Reptoids could also be a secret society, perhaps even rivals of the T'leth aliens. Say, as the original Atlanteans, whose empire was destroyed by the arrival of T'leth and who are now manipulating humans to get back at them.

Something exactly like that. Now they want to get back to power...

There could also be some limited space missions before Cydonia, using the environmental damage ruleset. I'm not so keen on Moon Nazis, but if done well, they might work out.

Perhaps, but probably not now.

Cults upgrading to existing factions, like the Church of Dagon already does:

CoD -> UW aliens, EXALT -> MiB, Red Dawn -> Cyberweb/MAGMA, Black Lotus -> Hybrids.

That's the general idea, though the connections network is rather different.

More utility for alien corpses, a la NuXCOM. You could, say, get some kind of alien blood serum with regenerative properties from Reptoids/Snakemen, combat implants from Gazers, psychoactive brain tissue from Sectoids/Cerebreals, repairable armor from Ethereals. These are just random examples, I'm sure Solarius can think (or ask for!) more and better ideas.

I've always wanted this, but it's hard to think of reasonable products from alien soldiers. We already have grav units and synthmuscles... Perhaps alien cybernetics?

EDIT:

I thought about the ideas for Hybrids, the one with a cattle mutilation site and the one with supplies. While I think (think!) it can be scripted somehow, the problem is that these would have to happen only once... You can have an item that upon research triggers a mission, but there's no way to make this one item be researchable again, for another mission... Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on October 14, 2016, 12:17:46 am
In the last vers i start a New Game. I unlock the first armour the leather coat. I buy some of them. But i cant equip in the soldiers. No is listed in the armour menu. But is in the inventory menu.......

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on October 14, 2016, 05:29:35 pm
Crash report:
[11-10-2016 20:15:59]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 301) >= this->size() (which is 296)
[11-10-2016 20:16:00]   [FATAL]   Crash dump generated at E:\Arch\G\Openxcom\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\11-10-2016_20-15-59.dmp
[11-10-2016 20:16:14]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 301) >= this->size() (which is 296)

In alien turn.

For some reason, game is trying to access map node number 301, even though there are only 296 map nodes on this map.
Can't say more right now... don't have a working debug environment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Hobbes on October 14, 2016, 08:36:25 pm
a plasma-based lifeform loosely based on the Solarite/Overlord of Hobbes' Are 51 mod

Those are originally from XOps XenoOperations mod. Due credit to whom it is due ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 14, 2016, 10:48:05 pm
For some reason, game is trying to access map node number 301, even though there are only 296 map nodes on this map.
Can't say more right now... don't have a working debug environment.

Thanks. It could be a faulty map, but I can't say.

Those are originally from XOps XenoOperations mod. Due credit to whom it is due ;)

By the way, if someone's not credited properly, please let me know ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on October 15, 2016, 12:30:29 pm
For my quest nothing?

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2016, 01:55:41 pm
For my quest nothing?

You mean the problem with leather coats? Yeah, sorry, I forgot to get back to you. I confirm that it's a bug and will be fixed. If you want to fix it yourself, go to armors_XCOMFILES.rul and change

Code: [Select]
    storeItem: STR_LEATHER_COAT_UC
into

Code: [Select]
    storeItem: STR_LEATHER_COAT
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on October 15, 2016, 02:34:03 pm
Thx and sorry for the replicate

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2016, 08:32:25 pm
Version 0.3.6 has been released.

Perhaps it should be 0.4, but maybe next time. :) I'd like to do more with the Cyberweb first.

Anyway, here's the changes:

- Added M.A.G.M.A. Corporation as a new weapon provider.
- Overhauled the tech tree for adding M.A.G.M.A.
- Added Heavy Shotgun (sprite author unknown).
- Added Tactical Grenade Launcher (modified from a sprite by YukesVonFaust for ZDoom).
- Added two new mapblocks for the Commercial terrain.
- Added Crop Circles missions.
- Added a Cattle Mutilation mission.
- Added some Hidden Caves stuff.
- Sorcerers of Dagon are blue now.
- Fixed some minor inconsistencies with Men in Black.
- Fixed the Luger entry.
- Fixed the Leather Coat bug.
- Fixed a bug with Gilldog needing Alien Containment.

As you can see, many changes are directly related to the community requests and reports. And not just bugs; for example, I've started trying things with crop circles and such, although it's pretty rudimentary at this point.

The link is in the opening post. Enjoy :)

EDIT: I forgot to complete the EXALT Brainer changes that Arthanor pointed out. :P Will be fixed the next time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on October 15, 2016, 09:21:16 pm
Thx and great work. If you want and when i have free time i want translate to spanish similar i do in fmp.....

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2016, 09:45:15 pm
Thx and great work. If you want and when i have free time i want translate to spanish similar i do in fmp.....

Translations are always welcome.
However, there may be changes to the already existing texts, so bear this in mind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 15, 2016, 11:11:30 pm
Nice! Looking forward to trying it and thanks for taking in the feedback :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 18, 2016, 10:10:41 pm
Found two more unpleasant bugs (aside of missing strings): When avalanche researched, one can buy launchers, but not missiles. Second - when research HWP technology (common one), there rocket hwp can be manufactured (without proper research).
And minor questions:
 - where is ufopedia pages about avalanche and stinger?
 - i can not find where to mount craft laser canon. Maybe you can add some craft weapon slots help?
 - research explosive and incendary ammunitions adding something? Because i can not find any difference (maybe not researched proper weapons?)
Thanks for your work, by the way. Wery interesting new game you got here. ;-)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 19, 2016, 11:53:12 am
Found two more unpleasant bugs (aside of missing strings): When avalanche researched, one can buy launchers, but not missiles. Second - when research HWP technology (common one), there rocket hwp can be manufactured (without proper research).

Thanks, both were glaring bugs from where I was trying to revolutionize the tech tree. ;) Luckily, easy to fix.

And minor questions:
 - where is ufopedia pages about avalanche and stinger?

It was a part of this bug I mentioned.

- i can not find where to mount craft laser canon. Maybe you can add some craft weapon slots help?

OK, good point. I'll do it when I'm done with overhauling the planes. Lightning is probably the first plane with a beam weapon slot.

- research explosive and incendary ammunitions adding something? Because i can not find any difference (maybe not researched proper weapons?)

Yes, most likely. Because it adds new ammo for Heavy Cannon, Auto-Cannon, Tactical Sniper Rifle and such.

Thanks for your work, by the way. Wery interesting new game you got here. ;-)

Thanks! And sorry about this mess...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 19, 2016, 01:54:44 pm
Also, if you plan to add more "concealed" missions, can be useful a new "civilian" armorsuit. And there durathread goes in. And let my thoughts run free... How about superfiber in aircraft hull... Defect-free carbon fiber can be really 10-100 times tougher than steel.

Upd: Beta-version of werewolf sprite, as promised (maked from muton). A bit ugly, but...
Ufopedia and inventory images will be later,when i gain access to photoshop.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 21, 2016, 02:13:42 am
That looks really cool! Nice work!

@Solarius:
I've researched Alien Origins (and manged to get Promotion III in November! Go XCom! Go!). The text is a bit weird. The only aliens I've encountered were terror units (reapers, silacoids, maybe something else) and it sounds like my guys actually talked to one of them. I have no clue how someone gets "they have a base of operation in the solar system" from a reaper.. Maybe there could be a "Alien Lifeforms" topic or something, which would replace Alien Origins as a pre-req for Promotion III, and Alien Origins as something that one gets only from.. sentient/humanoid/non-terror units aliens? That way, it would be more believable that you communicated somehow.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 21, 2016, 04:32:05 am
@Nord:

Wow... It looks promising! I'll get back to you with a review later. MIND BLOWN
How did you manage to sprite these legs?! It's marvellous!

That looks really cool! Nice work!

@Solarius:
I've researched Alien Origins (and manged to get Promotion III in November! Go XCom! Go!). The text is a bit weird. The only aliens I've encountered were terror units (reapers, silacoids, maybe something else) and it sounds like my guys actually talked to one of them. I have no clue how someone gets "they have a base of operation in the solar system" from a reaper.. Maybe there could be a "Alien Lifeforms" topic or something, which would replace Alien Origins as a pre-req for Promotion III, and Alien Origins as something that one gets only from.. sentient/humanoid/non-terror units aliens? That way, it would be more believable that you communicated somehow.

Yeah, I've been thinking the same, the Alien Origins as they are now are more of a placeholder. I'll get to it soon.

In the meantime, I made some new missions you're all gonna love! Expect some crazy terrorists, hybrid farms and cloned secret agents!

EDIT: I added the "alien lifeforms" research and then recalled that there is also the "Alien Biology" topic. :P Do we need both?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Kjotleik on October 21, 2016, 05:24:56 am
EDIT: I added the "alien lifeforms" research and then recalled that there is also the "Alien Biology" topic. :P Do we need both?

Well. Depends on what you want.

ALIEN LIFEFORMS

"We've interrogated the aliens. Their behaviour is like so-and-so and they organize their societies like so-and-so. This is what makes their minds tick...babbleon..."

ALIEN BIOLOGY

"We've examined the physiology of the aliens. Their bodies functions like so-and-so. They breed/procreate like so-and-so. This is what makes their bodies tick...babbleon..."


PS!
While we're on the subject. If ever somebody introduces new damageTypes (DT_11 etc), it would be nice with at least three different STUN-damageTypes.
DT_STUN - Biological. Works on humans and hybrids (better on humans, slightly worse on hybrids)
DT_STUN2 - Biological. Works on aliens and hybrids (better on aliens, slightly worse on hybrids)
DT_STUN3 - Electrical (EMP). Works on robotic/powered-mechanical enemies. AND on armours depending on an internal power-source. Such as Power Armour, Flying Armour, Juggernaut Suits, Stormtrooper Suits.

Now that I think about it, those new damageTypes could be implemented in regular OpenXCom, working with standard FMP as well (I hope).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on October 21, 2016, 06:41:15 am
New damage types have certainly been suggested to Meridian and Yankes for new features in OXCE, it's kinda low priority from what I gather though.  You can certainly do a lot with damageAlter in the meantime.  For example, you could set one of the biological stun types as acid damage (unarmored humans are more susceptible), and make it do 0 health damage and 100% stun damage.  Or the reverse method is possible, keep the damage type as stun, it just uses the target's armor's acid resistance.  The EMP stun could go against plasma or laser resistance (since either deals with strong EM fields).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 21, 2016, 08:23:04 am
How did you manage to sprite these legs?! It's marvellous
By hands of course. :-)  Please, check animation order. I saw strange artifacts when try do it myself.
And question for future: you can create immovable unit by rulesets? So he can shoot, but can not go?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 21, 2016, 08:56:37 am
Yes, either give it 0 stamina so it can't walk, or only two TUs and make firing cost 50% so it can turn 45 degrees and fire, fire twice or turn 90 degrees.

@Solarius: I think you can have alien life form as a kind of basic information tech, whereas alien origins tells a bit of where they come from and their society and alien biology deals more with how their body functions.

Sort of in order:
- Lifeforms: We've looked at some dead and live ones and they all share thsee traits that allow us to recognize them as truly alien.
- Biology: Their bodies work like that, they depend on this environment and if we want to keep them alive better we need that. If we have that we can keep and properly interrogate the sentient/humanoid ones.
- Origins: They come from somewhere else and to know more we need to talk to their leader.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2016, 07:58:14 pm
OK, I cleaned up some things that you reported, added some new stuff, soon I'll release 0.4.

I made a placeholder for the Werewolf Ufopaedia picture, do you people think it's OK enough?

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24487;image)

(I know it's small. Well, I dare you to walk up to a werewolf and take a better picture.)

EDIT:

Now that I look at him, he looks more like a werecat...

EDIT:

I also had some fun from a Minotaur stole from zDoom forums, got something like this:

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24491;image)

I don't want to go too far with petting zoo people, but he turned so well, I'd like to actually see him in the game. (If I had a sprite.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 22, 2016, 09:48:19 pm
It does look a bit like a "were-mountain lion/wolf" hybrid. Just need a bit more angular of a snout to make it look more canine than feline I think.

Nice minotaur, but.. I can't really see where it'd fit :P I guess with the Doom stuff?

Also, what's up with the BlackOps shotgun? "listOrder: ???" I bumped all the ammo down by one to make a spot between the shotgun and its ammo and make a spot at 2251 for it.

Finally, I've made a ruleset for "advanced ammo", which has 10% armor piercing and 15% stun for military weapons, 10% extra armor and 20% stun damage when using hunting weapons. But honestly, I haven't seen much of an effect...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2016, 09:58:19 pm
It does look a bit like a "were-mountain lion/wolf" hybrid. Just need a bit more angular of a snout to make it look more canine than feline I think.

How about a wolfman for temperate climates, and a panthorr for jungles? :)

Nice minotaur, but.. I can't really see where it'd fit :P I guess with the Doom stuff?

Doom lore is actually quite tight, so I don't think I can get away with making completely new units... I was thinking some sort of a monster mission (or just a normal hunt), but... well, as you said, it could be too much. I'm trying different ideas though.

Also, what's up with the BlackOps shotgun? "listOrder: ???" I bumped all the ammo down by one to make a spot between the shotgun and its ammo and make a spot at 2251 for it.

Many items don't have listOrder at this point, they're still being done. The next version will be mostly complete. For now, strange positions on lists may happen.

Finally, I've made a ruleset for "advanced ammo", which has 10% armor piercing and 15% stun for military weapons, 10% extra armor and 20% stun damage when using hunting weapons. But honestly, I haven't seen much of an effect...

Cool, keep trying. I'm actually looking forward to your results. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 22, 2016, 11:02:58 pm
Temperate werewolf works fine too ;) I think the color also plays as we're so used to grey werewolves.

Maybe EXALT or some other faction who likes to mess around with human DNA decided to make their own minotaurs for fun/security/enforcement. Arguably, when you're busting in the hideout of a rival gang who's been playing on your turf, it's hard to rival the impact of an actual minotaur!

I'm keeping trying. Nov. 1998 now and pretty much have access to all the basic stuff, plus a few things like motion scanners. Working on skyrangers and then going on the offensive once more. I'll try some more stun and see how I can achieve ~15% survival.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2016, 11:06:51 pm
Temperate werewolf works fine too ;) I think the color also plays as we're so used to grey werewolves.

Yes, that's for sure; I meant making yet another furry for another biome.

Maybe EXALT or some other faction who likes to mess around with human DNA decided to make their own minotaurs for fun/security/enforcement. Arguably, when you're busting in the hideout of a rival gang who's been playing on your turf, it's hard to rival the impact of an actual minotaur!

See? That's why we need the Syndicate. :P Factions like the EXALT or even Red Dawn aren't on the level of actual gene manipulation. Linking Minotaurs to the syndicate could be interesting, though I'm not sure why they would do so. (Military product line, I guess.)

I'm keeping trying. Nov. 1998 now and pretty much have access to all the basic stuff, plus a few things like motion scanners. Working on skyrangers and then going on the offensive once more. I'll try some more stun and see how I can achieve ~15% survival.

You're doing well! How about the cults?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 23, 2016, 02:05:48 am
That's what I meant by going once again on the offensive. I did one HQ with the dragonfly but if I can get a skyranger for the other ones I'll wait for that. Exalt is manageable by a small team with good guns as they're not too tough, but I'm wary of the Red Dawn (they're tough so I want more firepower) and especially Black Lotus (expecting casualties!) and I'm still waiting for another Church of Dagon base to catch a sorcerer.

Exalt got me my cult termination for promo 3 and I'm trying to take advantage of all the new hardware I can get for now. Just got labs up in 5 of my bases (not fully staffed though) so that should be quick. Since I'm at +8 million/month even with 7 bases, I probably should.. and I finally have something to make for money.

Current thinking has us researching the Red Dawn operations soon and tackling bases of both them and the church first. Then assemble a full team in Bio armor (since it's good against melee and thus against assassins) before taking on anything big from the Black Lotus. I'm abusing the fact that mission type depends on research to keep the cults small while I grow.

Digging around to see if there were anymore armors coming up, I noticed that personal armor got nerfed. Given that it isn't much protection to plasma already, I was curious why?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2016, 12:27:24 pm
Thanks for the report, it helps.

Digging around to see if there were anymore armors coming up, I noticed that personal armor got nerfed. Given that it isn't much protection to plasma already, I was curious why?

It's actually better against plasma now for the most part. Could need more tuning, but it's supposed to be an anti-energy armour with good mobility. There will be more armour types to complement it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 23, 2016, 06:38:58 pm
Ah! I didn't look at damage modifiers, just armor numbers. Makes sense!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2016, 09:42:34 pm
Ah! I didn't look at damage modifiers, just armor numbers. Makes sense!

It's okay, nobody ever looks at the resistances. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 24, 2016, 02:40:21 pm
At last, i tear myself from new Empyrion release and returned to sprites. So here it is, maybe a bit ugly, but i tried my best. Inventory, ufopedia and autopsy of werewolf.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 24, 2016, 04:25:42 pm
Nice! Werewolves and minotaurs sound like the start of a "mythical beasts" arc. Now we just need to think of a narrative to tie them together.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 24, 2016, 06:28:08 pm
At last, i tear myself from new Empyrion release and returned to sprites. So here it is, maybe a bit ugly, but i tried my best. Inventory, ufopedia and autopsy of werewolf.

Awesome. Integrating it straight away.
(I made another werewolf pic myself, but it's your critter, and also yours looks, well, better. :) )
The only exception is I used your inventory picture to make a Ufopaedia entrance in order to keep Ufopaedia consistent. Maybe I'll use your Ufopaedia picture for something else, like a general article on beastmen or whatever.

PS. Empyrion is on my Steam wishlist! :)

Nice! Werewolves and minotaurs sound like the start of a "mythical beasts" arc. Now we just need to think of a narrative to tie them together.

I'd rather integrate them into an existing or planned arc, instead of making yet another one. :) But yes, the mythical connotations are hard to miss. On one hand I want to tie them to the Syndicate, as this is their kind of thing, but on the other it's tempting to make them something like ancient alien experiments... Or maybe we could have both? :)

In other news, I'm adding new missions like crazy, so hopefully 0.4 will be a major gameplay update - at least for the early game, but not only that. I'm not sure when I'll release it, because I keep adding and changing stuff, but it's already been "releseable" for a week or so. End of the week maybe?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 24, 2016, 07:09:48 pm
The only exception is I used your inventory picture to make a Ufopaedia entrance in order to keep Ufopaedia consistent. Maybe I'll use your Ufopaedia picture for something else, like a general article on beastmen or whatever.
I saw, you have different-style pages for deep one and his TFTD friends, and decide to take random nice picture from internet for alive werewolf. But if you want purple-gradient back, i can make one. Well, try to make one...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 24, 2016, 07:46:38 pm
I saw, you have different-style pages for deep one and his TFTD friends, and decide to take random nice picture from internet for alive werewolf. But if you want purple-gradient back, i can make one. Well, try to make one...

Well, it looks like this:

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=24526;image)

Yes, the TFTD aliens are different, because I never made the effort to edit them correctly. :P It's on the to-do list somewhere.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 25, 2016, 03:05:51 pm
How about that:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 25, 2016, 03:27:30 pm
How about that:

Honestly? It's way too big, and doesn't look like pixel art. Your previous one was much better, this one looks more like it was cut from a newspaper.
It's not awful at all, but as I said, the previous one was much more in line with X-Com. I'm sticking with that one, as I quite like it, unless I see something mindblowing. :)


In other news... I worked on the Hybrid faction, added a lot of new missions. However, I don't know what kind of weapons they're supposed to be using. Most Earth weapons are pretty meh at this point, and I want to give them something unique... Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 25, 2016, 07:27:56 pm
I still don't know about the syndicate, so I can't comment on them much :P Ancient alien experiments could work, or the syndicate, if they have the means, could "unlock" dormant genes from human DNA to recreate these human mutants that have otherwise disappeared. This way there's a reference and the tech isn't as advanced: They didn't splice DNA to create werewolves and minotaurs, they just found a hormone to make the gene active.

As for hybrids, it depends very much on what you want hybrids to be: Are they infiltrators for the alien invasion (so fully supported by the aliens) or runaway experiments (so fully on their own) or something in between. If they are supported by the aliens, "low-tech alien weapons" like alien lasers could work and be how XCom gets to develop their own. Vanilla XCom starts with access to laser weapons research, maybe it was from captured alien stuff in the 1996-1999 period covered by XComFiles? If hybrids are on their own, maybe they developed psi-assisted aiming like the reticulans in Piratez? That would give them weapons that don't hurt more, but that are more accurate than average humans and allow them to compete against the 100+ Firing accuracy crack teams from XCom.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 26, 2016, 12:13:13 am
OK, thanks for the help, I have resolved both cases.

No spoilers though :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 26, 2016, 02:08:25 am
Well then! I'll find it by playing!  >:(

...

Or did that work as planned?  :o

 ;D

Edit because otherwise I'd be a spammer:

I kept on playing, I'll be a bit late on my timetable because I haven't managed to finish interceptors nor clear the cults yet since no base has spawned since I have skyrangers. I'm sure it'll come..

Also, I'm curious how your experiments with dogs are going. Since I did a fair amount of work on them and I am curious about soldier types/soldier specific armor, I could look into it to make dogs a type of soldiers that can't pilot/get promoted and has 3 armors: Default, doggy bulletproof vest and doggy alloy vest.

And finally: I made some "encounter of the 3rd/XXX kind" in December. I'm leaving a save here and I think the title says it all:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 27, 2016, 02:22:10 am
Well then! I'll find it by playing!  >:(

Yeah, though not in 0.4 yet.

Edit because otherwise I'd be a spammer:

I wish more people thought like this...

Also, I'm curious how your experiments with dogs are going. Since I did a fair amount of work on them and I am curious about soldier types/soldier specific armor, I could look into it to make dogs a type of soldiers that can't pilot/get promoted and has 3 armors: Default, doggy bulletproof vest and doggy alloy vest.

Frankly, I haven't found the time for dogs yet. (I just lost a good hour debugging yet another stupid mission.) So if you want to try, you're welcome. :)

Here's what I do have:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DOGE
    costBuy: 10000
    costSalary: 800
    minStats:
      tu: 60
      stamina: 80
      health: 15
      bravery: 10
      reactions: 50
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 70
    maxStats:
      tu: 70
      stamina: 90
      health: 20
      bravery: 20
      reactions: 60
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 90
    statCaps:
      tu: 100
      stamina: 130
      health: 40
      bravery: 40
      reactions: 90
      firing: 10
      throwing: 10
      strength: 2
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 140
    armor: STR_NONE_UC
#    armorForAvatar: STR_NONE_UC
#    avatarOffsetX: 68
#    avatarOffsetY: 48
    standHeight: 12
    kneelHeight: 12
    femaleFrequency: 50
    deathMale: 94
    deathFemale: 94

And finally: I made some "encounter of the 3rd/XXX kind" in December. I'm leaving a save here and I think the title says it all:

Well... Later game isn't really finished yet. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 27, 2016, 04:59:18 am
Alright. I'll take a look at the dogs. Especially now that the aliens pretty much won by overpowered tech, as they should I guess.

Edit: Also, as can be seen in my previous save, if you have a XCom HQ in the base, somehow the radar circles are not drawn around bases on the geoscape.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 28, 2016, 01:38:06 am
Alright. I'll take a look at the dogs. Especially now that the aliens pretty much won by overpowered tech, as they should I guess.

Sorry to hear that. But is it so bad? Yes, I understand, Ethereals, but did anything really bad happen?

Edit: Also, as can be seen in my previous save, if you have a XCom HQ in the base, somehow the radar circles are not drawn around bases on the geoscape.

I'm moving to another town this week and therefore I didn't have the chance to look at it yet, but I'll try to investigate.

EDIT: Here's the Werecat-nya. :)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 28, 2016, 06:42:44 am
Sorry to hear that. But is it so bad? Yes, I understand, Ethereals, but did anything really bad happen?
Well.. I don't think I can tackle Ethereals with normal weapons, armored vests and no psi screening. Especially since giving them psi-vision has made them able to psi-shenanigans you from T1 without needing to spot you so there's much less hiding from LOS to avoid getting it. There's always exploiting psi-rods I guess, although it's not easy given I have no access to psi-stat.

Could it be done? Yes, I actually managed to clear the UFO on my 2nd try with only one casualty (the guy who threw the heavy explosive in the UFO at the end of T2) but the first try was absolute mind blowing self-inflicted devastation. And I don't know if I want to go through that again given that it's not really what's supposed to happen.

I like to try and comment on various mods, but I'm not really keen on playing through bugs or game eras that aren't really implemented. I gave up on Piratez once I reached the endgame for that reason too. Dioxine said the endgame wasn't really implemented. And it was honestly boring. All I needed to do was farm the last armor materials in great enough quantity and it wasn't interesting to do. However, since yours is the only other TC that's still going, I'm thinking I'll just restart (after having a look at the mission stuff :P)

Quote
I'm moving to another town this week and therefore I didn't have the chance to look at it yet, but I'll try to investigate.
No worries. Actually I looked and I'm not sure why but XCom HQs have a super bad, super long range radar. So it's not that the game doesn't draw the circles, but it wants to draw the larger range available to a given base (the HQ) and that is probably enough to give you global coverage so nothing gets drawn. I'm not sure if a 2% detection rate is worth the inconvenience of not being able to see your actual radar range. But I guess I can also destroy the HQs now that I have labs...

Quote
EDIT: Here's the Werecat-nya. :)
Cool stuff! :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 28, 2016, 01:49:03 pm
Well.. I don't think I can tackle Ethereals with normal weapons, armored vests and no psi screening. Especially since giving them psi-vision has made them able to psi-shenanigans you from T1 without needing to spot you so there's much less hiding from LOS to avoid getting it. There's always exploiting psi-rods I guess, although it's not easy given I have no access to psi-stat.

Could it be done? Yes, I actually managed to clear the UFO on my 2nd try with only one casualty (the guy who threw the heavy explosive in the UFO at the end of T2) but the first try was absolute mind blowing self-inflicted devastation. And I don't know if I want to go through that again given that it's not really what's supposed to happen.

I like to try and comment on various mods, but I'm not really keen on playing through bugs or game eras that aren't really implemented. I gave up on Piratez once I reached the endgame for that reason too. Dioxine said the endgame wasn't really implemented. And it was honestly boring. All I needed to do was farm the last armor materials in great enough quantity and it wasn't interesting to do. However, since yours is the only other TC that's still going, I'm thinking I'll just restart (after having a look at the mission stuff :P)

All right, that's understandable. I can move Ethereals somewhat further down the line of time, but it probably requires more effort than just this.
Perhaps I'll be able to focus on this after the release.

Thanks for the report! It's probably the first time anyone's gone that far with the mod.

No worries. Actually I looked and I'm not sure why but XCom HQs have a super bad, super long range radar. So it's not that the game doesn't draw the circles, but it wants to draw the larger range available to a given base (the HQ) and that is probably enough to give you global coverage so nothing gets drawn. I'm not sure if a 2% detection rate is worth the inconvenience of not being able to see your actual radar range. But I guess I can also destroy the HQs now that I have labs...

Yes, indeed the HQ's "radar" is indeed global, and its circle shouldn't be shown. But I never noticed it doesn't display other radars either. I guess it could be considered a bug...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on October 28, 2016, 03:44:32 pm
@Arthanor:

However, since yours is the only other TC that's still going, I'm thinking I'll just restart (after having a look at the mission stuff :P)

If you're going to restart, might I interest you in trying out my altered version of X-Com Files? The primary reason for this would be to identify which of my changes have a broad enough appeal that I can lobby Solarius to add them individually, instead of just dumping all the raw changes at him. The latter did not work, and I'm not blaming him for it either.

If you're game, give me a day or two after Solarius releases 0.4 to merge in the new stuff. If not, well, I'm happy enough with it myself, but I really think at least some of my work is clearly an improvement and it'd be a waste to just let it fade away on page  17 (double the page count, already?  :o)


More utility for alien corpses, a la NuXCOM. You could, say, get some kind of alien blood serum with regenerative properties from Reptoids/Snakemen, combat implants from Gazers, psychoactive brain tissue from Sectoids/Cerebreals, repairable armor from Ethereals. These are just random examples, I'm sure Solarius can think (or ask for!) more and better ideas.
I've always wanted this, but it's hard to think of reasonable products from alien soldiers. We already have grav units and synthmuscles... Perhaps alien cybernetics?

Well, I implemented something along my original ideas. Most corpses give something (Alien electronics, Alien Alloys, Synthmuscles and Grav Modules are largely unchanged) and the primary new resources are:




Thanks for the report! It's probably the first time anyone's gone that far with the mod.


Well, I got as far as late fall of 1999, but restarted due to extensive changes (merging in Commendations mid-game being the primary culprit) and a desire to rebalance the early game. I'm now (back) up to May 1998. I'm no good for bug reports, though, since I'm liable to fix them myself.  ;D

As an aside, Commendation triggers seem to be quite buggy. Off the top of my head, people get IED medals for no reason (smoke grenades?), I-stunned-all-Aliens-myself medal is given out left and right, the kill-by-ranks medal is also too frequent.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on October 28, 2016, 05:08:17 pm
All right, that's understandable. I can move Ethereals somewhat further down the line of time, but it probably requires more effort than just this.
Perhaps I'll be able to focus on this after the release.

I thought the idea was to keep the timeine similar to the FMP for January 1999 onward? The Kiryu-Kai research states that the invasion starts on the same date as vanilla and discovering that ethereals, no less, are running missions in December 1998 was just shocking for me. But maybe that's me misunderstanding the intent for the later game.

I very much liked the idea of XComFiles covering the pre-invasion part and thought that your success in the two early years could explain why the aliens decide to come to Earth themselves and terrorize it: you foiled their more insidious appempt with cults to deliver them the world peacefully. But if the cult activity is just masking the invasion which proceeds any ways from the start and it's just that I can't tell since I have no radar it's a bit less empowering.

To me, getting ready to welcome the aliens on January was a great driver for trying to develop and build as much infrastructure as possible. Usually I take the game as it comes and progress along at a pace I find reasonable without trying to exploit the game, but in this mod I had a drive to push my development as far as possible. To discover that aliens are already running about and I was a clueless chimp is a bit disheartening. A few sectoids doing stuff for crop circles missions is cool and ties in the age old ufo reports. Ethereals, which I take to mean every other race since they are the last to show up usually, already being about makes all this talk about a start date much less relevant. It's already started.

All that to say: I'm very curious to know what you intended for January 1999 to represent because it seems like I misunderstood ;P and I know expectations are the worst so I'd rather set them properly.

Quote
Thanks for the report! It's probably the first time anyone's gone that far with the mod.

You're welcome! It was a very entertaining experience. Well done on designing the first two years. In fact, if you implement more early arcs, I'd almost suggest making it 3 years before the invasion so we have time to delve into the arcs properly instead of having too much unfinished business when the aliens show up.

Quote
Yes, indeed the HQ's "radar" is indeed global, and its circle shouldn't be shown. But I never noticed it doesn't display other radars either. I guess it could be considered a bug...

I think that the intent was to only draw the longest range but in this case I agree that excluding global coverage would be good.

@Juku: I'd be curious to see it. Don't worry about time. I'll work a bit on dogs, maybe more on my AP ammo idea and I'll be busy with other stuff for a bit any ways, so there's no rush.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 28, 2016, 09:57:01 pm
If you're going to restart, might I interest you in trying out my altered version of X-Com Files? The primary reason for this would be to identify which of my changes have a broad enough appeal that I can lobby Solarius to add them individually, instead of just dumping all the raw changes at him. The latter did not work, and I'm not blaming him for it either.

If you're game, give me a day or two after Solarius releases 0.4 to merge in the new stuff. If not, well, I'm happy enough with it myself, but I really think at least some of my work is clearly an improvement and it'd be a waste to just let it fade away on page  17 (double the page count, already?  :o)

I certainly don't mind, if there is interest. But I think our differences are mostly around basic gaming concepts, like "should armour have weight", in the large picture there shouldn't be much differences. But it also depends how you'll approach 0.4, which is pretty much done.

BTW: It's your call Juku, but like before, I really recommend writing a separate mod to XCF rather than changing the master mod, since the thing is a nightmare to work with. ;)

Well, I implemented something along my original ideas. Most corpses give something (Alien electronics, Alien Alloys, Synthmuscles and Grav Modules are largely unchanged) and the primary new resources are:

  • Alien brain tissue (Sectoids, Cerebrals, Ethereals), which is required to build advanced psi-amps, psi-weapons and Psiclones. Basically a way of turning corpses into (more) money via Psiclones and a speedbump for building psi-amps. Finally, this could also be turned into 'ammo' for psi-amps etc, but I don't personally like that idea. And dead Ethereals are still a resource for building Psi-Suits.
  • Alien blood serum (mostly reptile Aliens: Snakemen, Tasoths, Reptoids, but also Chryssalids), which is used to build advanced medikits and perishable combat drugs, which are basically 'stims on steroids'. :) That is, they are one-use items that regenerate a lot of energy, remove stun and provide some TU, but are consumed after use and the resources to build them are comparably as limited as Elerium is for general use.
  • Alien acids from Celatids, Spitters and their ilk, used by bioweapons like Toxiguns, Dart weapons; Acid grenades, rockets and other munitions. It is possible to synthesize these after extensive research (basically, research all Aliens, their autopsies and bioweapons), but in early and mid-game you have to scavenge.

I agree with the principle. Not really convinced by alien brain juice useful for psionics, since it has to do with complex information patterns, and that's highly unlikely with chemical molecules - otherwise we'd have moldy food leftovers go sentient. :) And other such components are often easily enough synthesised on Earth. But I'm all for the general idea.

As an aside, Commendation triggers seem to be quite buggy. Off the top of my head, people get IED medals for no reason (smoke grenades?), I-stunned-all-Aliens-myself medal is given out left and right, the kill-by-ranks medal is also too frequent.

This is a general issue; when Yankes merges current nightly, hopefully it'll be fixed.

I thought the idea was to keep the timeine similar to the FMP for January 1999 onward? The Kiryu-Kai research states that the invasion starts on the same date as vanilla and discovering that ethereals, no less, are running missions in December 1998 was just shocking for me. But maybe that's me misunderstanding the intent for the later game.

Yes, you are correct: the aliens start the invasion at that date.

I very much liked the idea of XComFiles covering the pre-invasion part and thought that your success in the two early years could explain why the aliens decide to come to Earth themselves and terrorize it: you foiled their more insidious appempt with cults to deliver them the world peacefully. But if the cult activity is just masking the invasion which proceeds any ways from the start and it's just that I can't tell since I have no radar it's a bit less empowering.

It's not exactly that the aliens suddenly changed their plans because of X-Com, the invasion would happen anyway. The cults etc. are only a part of it, but in fact they constitute a majority of invasion forces.

I kinda like the idea that doing well with the cults would push the alien invasion further; it's a cool mechanic, if done right. But I don't know if I can do something like that with what we have. I could make some research prerequisite to alien missions, but it would destroy the feeling of inevitability of the invasion.

Nevertheless, cults, hybrids etc. make so much ruckus that without your effort, the Earth would be much more weakened.

To me, getting ready to welcome the aliens on January was a great driver for trying to develop and build as much infrastructure as possible. Usually I take the game as it comes and progress along at a pace I find reasonable without trying to exploit the game, but in this mod I had a drive to push my development as far as possible. To discover that aliens are already running about and I was a clueless chimp is a bit disheartening. A few sectoids doing stuff for crop circles missions is cool and ties in the age old ufo reports. Ethereals, which I take to mean every other race since they are the last to show up usually, already being about makes all this talk about a start date much less relevant. It's already started.

No, that's not true: the aliens really start their shit in January 1999. There are some alien vessels before, basically research, but they are only occasional at best. To get such a ship, much less an Ethereal one, before 01.1999, requires much luck (lol).
Anyway, today I rebuilt the missions to make sure that Ethereals appear much later... At least on normal missions.

Actually, the alien invasion will probably be less intense than in vanilla, since you have so much to do on the other fronts. For example, only 20% chance for an Alien Terror each month - but you also have other difficult missions. Thisgs will be balanced further if necessary.

You're welcome! It was a very entertaining experience. Well done on designing the first two years. In fact, if you implement more early arcs, I'd almost suggest making it 3 years before the invasion so we have time to delve into the arcs properly instead of having too much unfinished business when the aliens show up.

I'm considering it. There is much more early content in 0.4, and also even more content once you discover the Hybrids. For now, we stay like we were, but with softer invasion.

I think that the intent was to only draw the longest range but in this case I agree that excluding global coverage would be good.

I don't want to abandon my HQ "radar" idea (which is really just some people waiting at their phone lines), so I guess we'll have to live with it for now. I'll ask Meridian later if we can have all the circles displayed. Frankly, this is something I already wanted before, X-Com HQ aside.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 28, 2016, 11:03:58 pm
I agree with the principle. Not really convinced by alien brain juice useful for psionics, since it has to do with complex information patterns, and that's highly unlikely with chemical molecules - otherwise we'd have moldy food leftovers go sentient. :) And other such components are often easily enough synthesised on Earth. But I'm all for the general idea.
I always liked this principe. Like in the PirateZ, when you need each artifact for some future purpose. So you must cut implants from alen bodyes, disassemble cyberdiscs for advanced circuits, dismantle alien food for reagents and so on. And after that combine it all in one useful item.  :P
 By the way, can you add in next patch bioextraction of alive floaters and zombies. I think it is bug not to use them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 28, 2016, 11:07:32 pm
I always liked this principe. Like in the PirateZ, when you need each artifact for some future purpose. So you must cut implants from alen bodyes, disassemble cyberdiscs for advanced circuits, dismantle alien food for reagents and so on. And after that combine it all in one useful item.  :P

Yes, but it's harder to fit it into X-Com Files. :P

By the way, can you add in next patch bioextraction of alive floaters and zombies. I think it is bug not to use them.

Zombies yes, that's already done. Floaters no, because they don't have this Elerium-based metabolism - they are just cyborgs. (We should be able to extract some cybernetics from them, like from Mutons... But I'm not sure what for, yet.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on October 28, 2016, 11:35:31 pm
(We should be able to extract some cybernetics from them, like from Mutons... But I'm not sure what for, yet.)

Please... 

We're Humans...

We're best known for randomly inserting metal into parts of our bodies purely for decoration
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on October 29, 2016, 12:32:49 am
I certainly don't mind, if there is interest. But I think our differences are mostly around basic gaming concepts, like "should armour have weight", in the large picture there shouldn't be much differences. But it also depends how you'll approach 0.4, which is pretty much done.


Oh, there are definitely some changes that either clash with your vision or are just plain unintuitive. But I don’t think armor weight is one of those. Full-body armor definitely weighs more than a business suit. I guess the real issue is that my armors have negative weight.

And I don’t have anything you might call an 'approach’. I just scavenge and develop random gameplay ideas that I either read about or that come to me while playing. You’re the guy with lots of new ideas and a vision.

BTW: It's your call Juku, but like before, I really recommend writing a separate mod to XCF rather than changing the master mod, since the thing is a nightmare to work with. ;)

The trouble with doing that is it’s pretty much ongoing work that both changes and adds to the original mod. It would be a major pain to try to maintain minimally changed rulesets. Plus, I don’t think it’s possible to make an extensive submod for anything but a fixed version of the base mod, and right now there is a single constantly changing version.

Maybe all this would be feasible for an eventual 1.0, but that’s a long way off yet and I’ll probably burn out on X-Com sometime during the next six months or so and then disappear until 2019.;D

What I can offer is that if (when?:D) you identify a list of changes you like, I can provide the minimal changes needed to implement those and you can just paste them in.

I agree with the principle. Not really convinced by alien brain juice useful for psionics, since it has to do with complex information patterns, and that's highly unlikely with chemical molecules - otherwise we'd have moldy food leftovers go sentient. :) And other such components are often easily enough synthesised on Earth. But I'm all for the general idea.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a lobotomized piece of alien brain in a small life support unit ('brain in a jar’, heh). Kinda like the semi-dead Tasoths, biodrones and Great Sleeper lore of TFTD. ‘Big-brained’ aliens can be cut into smaller pieces and still function as a psionic medium.

But yeah, it’s mostly window dressing for a desirable gameplay effect rather than a well thought-out idea.

No, that's not true: the aliens really start their shit in January 1999. There are some alien vessels before, basically research, but they are only occasional at best. To get such a ship, much less an Ethereal one, before 01.1999, requires much luck (lol).

Shameless plug: my version gets to Ethereals only in 2002, but they’re really scary now. As in, can see you through walls, have psi-stats far beyond human (so virtually immune to your psi), able to stun you instead of mind control, which is arguably worse than MC. Nuking them with Blaster Bombs might be a legitimate tactic now. But you MUST capture an Ethereal Commander to find out about Cydonia.

Edit: this talk about Alien food reminds me of another change: advanced buildings require Alien components now: surgeries for the Sick Bay, food for containment (you can hold a single alien in a prototype facility that can be built without Alien Food), Elerium power sources for plasma defences etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 29, 2016, 09:47:57 am
Floaters no, because they don't have this Elerium-based metabolism - they are just cyborgs. (We should be able to extract some cybernetics from them, like from Mutons... But I'm not sure what for, yet.)
I mean gravisystem, as we can extract from dead floaters. Or make possibility to kill captured aliens.

About brain samples - Lore friendly thing: reading ufopedia we see that all of alien species infused with many cybernetic implants. And humans can not produce nothing like it. But maybe can adapt some for self?

As always, sorry for bad grammatic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 29, 2016, 12:40:00 pm
I mean gravisystem, as we can extract from dead floaters. Or make possibility to kill captured aliens.

No idea how to go about this right now, but yes, it's logical.

About brain samples - Lore friendly thing: reading ufopedia we see that all of alien species infused with many cybernetic implants. And humans can not produce nothing like it. But maybe can adapt some for self?

There are limitations as to what I can do, but I feel the same.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 29, 2016, 01:25:45 pm
No idea how to go about this right now, but yes, it's logical.
Simple. Manufacturing option, one live unit needed, one dead produced.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on October 29, 2016, 02:35:59 pm
Shameless plug: my version gets to Ethereals only in 2002, but they’re really scary now. As in, can see you through walls, have psi-stats far beyond human (so virtually immune to your psi), able to stun you instead of mind control, which is arguably worse than MC.

Be careful with buffing their Psi Power too much, Solar already went that route in FMP and it wasn't fun to play at all (get mindfucked no matter what or go 100% tanks yo), since how the psi equations work (quadratic attack, linear defense). Going above circa 4000 psi (Power * Skill) is venturing into game-breaking territory, at least w/o tweaking how defence works.

Also, how did you make that stun? As an extra attack from their psi weapon? I'm curious since I didn't try that out yet.

As a word of advice, better make your changes a separate mod. Else you'll get fucked as Solar updates his files (not to even mention your changes will quickly become useless to anyone but yourself). It's a higher energy & time investment upfront, but saves a ton of trouble later. I made the same mistake as you did when tweaking the 40k mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on October 29, 2016, 03:46:56 pm
Be careful with buffing their Psi Power too much, Solar already went that route in FMP and it wasn't fun to play at all (get mindfucked no matter what or go 100% tanks yo), since how the psi equations work (quadratic attack, linear defense). Going above circa 4000 psi (Power * Skill) is venturing into game-breaking territory, at least w/o tweaking how defence works.

Right now, it’s 3000 for soldiers and 5000-6000 for top end guys. Promoting the use of tanks is actually an unintended side effect I quite like. But the psi system has also undergone some changes: dedicated psi-troopers with special equipment max out at 2250, and ALL psi is distance-based and requires energy. So you do have tools to mitigate their power somewhat.

Also, how did you make that stun? As an extra attack from their psi weapon? I'm curious since I didn't try that out yet.

Yes, exactly as Yankes outlines in his documentation. I have a special copy of the Black Lotus Flame Glove for direct damage, and the Ethereal leadership has their own counterpart as well, so I didn’t want to make a lethal psi-attack. I think it all works well: the player does not get a lot of use out of stun, since it’s shorter-ranged and less reliable than other ranged stun weapons. But it’s highly disrupting in Alien hands, yet can be managed with medi-kits etc, so not quite instakill territory.

As a word of advice, better make your changes a separate mod. Else you'll get fucked as Solar updates his files (not to even mention your changes will quickly become useless to anyone but yourself). It's a higher energy & time investment upfront, but saves a ton of trouble later. I made the same mistake as you did when tweaking the 40k mod.

That’s what I was rambling about on the last page and what the page 17 version essentially is, isn’t it? The problem is, it’s hard to parse for changes and diverges from the original in a number of places, so Solarius (understandably) did not want to try incorporating anything major and picked only some low-hanging fruit. I think there’s more of those still available, e.g. soldier icons for equip screen and UFOpedia entries for enemy stats, but that’s the whole point behind my trying to enlist … alpha-testers, right?  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 29, 2016, 04:16:10 pm
I made different engine for MiB vessels, maybe you`l like it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 31, 2016, 02:53:30 am
Simple. Manufacturing option, one live unit needed, one dead produced.

Yeah, you are correct. I was referring to the ever-changing way of dealing with living aliens (and researched items ), I think some versions allow killing aliens or something, so I was hoping for a cleaner solution... But Piratez have butchery and it's perfectly fine, so I guess I can too.

That’s what I was rambling about on the last page and what the page 17 version essentially is, isn’t it? The problem is, it’s hard to parse for changes and diverges from the original in a number of places, so Solarius (understandably) did not want to try incorporating anything major and picked only some low-hanging fruit. I think there’s more of those still available, e.g. soldier icons for equip screen and UFOpedia entries for enemy stats, but that’s the whole point behind my trying to enlist … alpha-testers, right?  8)

Yeah, part of the point is that our versions are so hard to compare. :) WinMerge helps a little, but not everything is in the same order, so ultimately it's way too much work. I'm not in the polishing phase yet, so yeah, I'm cherry-picking. But I do realize I'll have to do the proper stuff at some point, like writing armour stats.

I made different engine for MiB vessels, maybe you`l like it.

I like it! Taken. :)

But I'll experiment with colours and maybe make another version. For now it stays, it looks very good.


EDIT:

Version 0.4 has been released.

- Most enemies can now surrender (new code by Meridian, as always).
- Added dedicated Hybrid faction (with no Sectoids).
- Added Hybrid Experimental Farm mission.
- Added Holiday Resort Attack mission.
- Added Hybrid Agent mission.
- Added more Crop Circles missions.
- Added Madman Rampage missions.
- Added Spider Nest mission.
- Added Werewolves (sprites by Nord).
- Added Werecats (based on the same sprite).
- Added Chempistol and Chemogun.
- Added Shiv.
- Added Bone Club and other junk.
- Added small ranks icons.
- Added stats for armours.
- Added new Men in Black vessel engine (sprite by Nord).
- Added an article on the EXALT brainer and the Sorcerer of Dagon, as life forms.
- Rebalanced the odds for some events.
- Pushed some alien races to appear later than before.
- Stims are generally stronger.
- Zombies give Energetic Blood Plasma now.
- Improved nodes for Polar maps to allow more spawns.
- Re-ordered lists.
- Some new helpful Ufopaedia articles.
- Fixed a bug with Avalanche missiles being impossible to buy.
- Fixed a bug with Tank/Rocket Launcher available for manufacture too early.
- Fixed a critical problem with hacking alien data slates.
- Fixed a small problem with spritesheets size.
- Fixed wrong picture for the Giant Spider (was displaying Giant Spider Queen instead).
- Fixed a bug with Bio-Exo Suit allowed on infiltration missions.

Like every round version number, it is more beta than not, so bug reports are appreciated. Also please be advised that some missions are time-limited, but this mechanic doesn't work yet as it needs later nightly, but it'll probably be fixed soon.

EDIT 2:

Meridian reported a serious bug with the surrender mechanics. I'll post a patched version when the fix is ready.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on October 31, 2016, 01:00:32 pm
Hi. I am not a real painter, so dont expect much. But here is some slightly improved ufopedia images. Maybe i can redact zombies later...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 31, 2016, 11:14:35 pm
Hi. I am not a real painter, so dont expect much. But here is some slightly improved ufopedia images. Maybe i can redact zombies later...

Thanks! All of them definitely look much better. I'll add them to the next release, which hopefully will be very soon because of the surrender bug.

As for the Hybrids, I want to redo them, so your work might be in vain... But on the other hand the Ufopaedia page looks acceptable now, thanks to you, so maybe I'll just change the sprite. I think it was my first sprite for OXC and it is a train wreck. :P

EDIT:

0.4b was uploaded.

It contains a fix for the surrendering bug and some improved Ufopedia pics by Nord.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 01, 2016, 11:17:29 am
Get a CTD when trying to read ufopedia article "Eliminate Exalt".
Log:
[01-11-2016 12:10:55]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: code 0xc0000005
[01-11-2016 12:10:55]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
...
[01-11-2016 12:10:55]   [FATAL]   SymFromAddr failed: 487
[01-11-2016 12:10:55]   [FATAL]   0x752033b8 BaseThreadInitThunk (SymGetLineFromAddr64 failed: 487)
[01-11-2016 12:10:55]   [FATAL]   0x773b9e6f RtlInitializeExceptionChain (SymGetLineFromAddr64 failed: 487)
[01-11-2016 12:10:55]   [FATAL]   0x773b9e6f RtlInitializeExceptionChain (SymGetLineFromAddr64 failed: 487)
[01-11-2016 12:10:56]   [FATAL]   Crash dump generated at E:\Arch\G\Openxcom\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\01-11-2016_12-10-55.dmp
[01-11-2016 12:11:00]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: code 0xc0000005
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 01, 2016, 02:40:29 pm
Damn, you're right. I'll have to release yet another version. :/

You can fix it by adding this to the item.rul:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DESTROY_EXALT
    bigSprite: 299
    weight: 0
    invWidth: 2
    invHeight: 3

Or you can download the new version 0.4c I just posted, which has no other changes.

By the way, my next objective is reacting to the feedback on 0.4, especially regarding early game balance and the new missions. So I'm counting on you all! :)
Otherwise I plan to concentrate on the Syndicate. At this point it's the terrain graphics, since no suitable terrain exists. I've already started making a corporate building tileset (mainly by stealing from every possible existing terrain of course), but it's a huge task and won't be finished soon. So I'll work on it in the background, between more urgent things.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 01, 2016, 08:09:24 pm
Thanks.
I wanted to write a post like "Too easy, need more armored enemies!!!"... aaaand... terror with sectopods and chryssalids. No survivors. Well done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 02, 2016, 12:09:32 pm
I wanted to write a post like "Too easy, need more armored enemies!!!"... aaaand... terror with sectopods and chryssalids. No survivors. Well done.

:P

Can you tell me what month it was?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 02, 2016, 04:17:20 pm
14 april 1999
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 02, 2016, 07:24:30 pm
14 april 1999

That's pretty early... I'll check if it's OK.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 02, 2016, 07:31:12 pm
Yup, i have not researched laser or better weapons, so... so i found uber-weapon: blackops heavy minigun. It can kill sectopod by one autoshot. So it can kill ANYONE by one autoshot, i think. Maybe little nerf will be useful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 02, 2016, 07:34:19 pm
Yup, i have not researched laser or better weapons, so... so i found uber-weapon: blackops heavy minigun. It can kill sectopod by one autoshot. So it can kill ANYONE by one autoshot, i think. Maybe little nerf will be useful.

You know, it's the first time I've heard of anyone using this weapon. And I think it's properly balanced; I'd rather give a buff to the Sectopod. I plan to buff the aliens anyway somewhat.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 02, 2016, 07:54:06 pm
As you wish.
Offtop question about "startingconditions": I saw Meridian post "Soldiers, which won't fit in the replacement craft, won't be available during the mission at all." What if all soldiers won't fit?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 02, 2016, 08:07:48 pm
As you wish.
Offtop question about "startingconditions": I saw Meridian post "Soldiers, which won't fit in the replacement craft, won't be available during the mission at all." What if all soldiers won't fit?

I expect the game to crash with a message that "no X-Com units could be placed on the map", or something similar. Which is a normal thing if you make a map without a craft (like in the alien base for example) and screw up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: alinare on November 02, 2016, 08:16:46 pm
Hello:

I imagine you are aware of it, but in the missions to be accomplished one objective, I think ten rounds, if all pass, not ends. I've been tested, purposely letting go all shifts, and exceeding the limit, but the game continues.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 02, 2016, 08:19:15 pm
I imagine you are aware of it, but in the missions to be accomplished one objective, I think ten rounds, if all pass, not ends. I've been tested, purposely letting go all shifts, and exceeding the limit, but the game continues.

Yes, that's because the mechanics is missing from the code yet. :) It's in the nightly, which should be merged soon by Yankes. So for now I'm just pretending it's all fine, and la-la-la, I can't hear you. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 02, 2016, 08:22:10 pm
I expect the game to crash with a message that "no X-Com units could be placed on the map", or something similar. Which is a normal thing if you make a map without a craft (like in the alien base for example) and screw up.
Sad. I wanted to implement depth restrictions in tftd based on this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: alinare on November 02, 2016, 08:22:39 pm
Agree. No pressure or get you intend to draw fouls. To all this, your work seems amazing and impressive, especially the variety you're printing, the mod.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 02, 2016, 08:39:28 pm
Agree. No pressure or get you intend to draw fouls. To all this, your work seems amazing and impressive, especially the variety you're printing, the mod.  :)

Well, it's called alpha for a reason. :)

By the way, is there a real life weapon that really should be in the mod and isn't yet? (No promises though.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 02, 2016, 08:41:58 pm
14 april 1999
hehe so someone got further than me :) What was the main enemy of the terror mission? Snakemen?

I'm guessing that the blackops minigun wins by armor damage, akin to how chem wins in Piratez. You hit something repeatedly until you deplete armor and subsequent hits kill. This makes weapons with extra armor damage and lots of shots better than "dedicated weapons" like lasers which ignore armor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 03, 2016, 06:38:26 am
I just registred to tell, that you, all your colleagues in modding and your work are amazing and awesome.

I started when v3.6 was current build I suppose and now my date is 5th of June 1999 and on the latest terror misson I got bunch of sectopods, some gazers, three ethereals and three mutons. By the moment I busted EXALT, Black Lotus and Church of Dagon, researched lazers and railguns, so it was somewhat managable. But I also shot down a UFO with interrogation room full of ethereals, 7 of them I think - that nearly costed me my whole top team, had to use savecheating. I met some snakemen, but for some reason they were quickly replaced by gazers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on November 03, 2016, 09:44:39 am
I update the Game to 4 and when load i have a car named café withouth a ufopaedia entry. Whats the car do?

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 03, 2016, 01:09:03 pm
I just registred to tell, that you, all your colleagues in modding and your work are amazing and awesome.

I started when v3.6 was current build I suppose and now my date is 5th of June 1999 and on the latest terror misson I got bunch of sectopods, some gazers, three ethereals and three mutons. By the moment I busted EXALT, Black Lotus and Church of Dagon, researched lazers and railguns, so it was somewhat managable. But I also shot down a UFO with interrogation room full of ethereals, 7 of them I think - that nearly costed me my whole top team, had to use savecheating. I met some snakemen, but for some reason they were quickly replaced by gazers.

Thank you very much for the kind words.

Yes, I have already modified alien missions so that Ethereals aren't as early. That was after 4.0c though, so unreleased yet. Congratulations on making it this far though!

I update the Game to 4 and when load i have a car named café withouth a ufopaedia entry. Whats the car do?

What do you mean? Is it in the quick battle, or actual game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 04, 2016, 10:49:26 am
I'm a bit new here and maybe it was previously asked, but could you please tell if Cults are intentionally different in strehngth and hardness? I just busted Red Down HQ and it felt easier than Black Lotus and generally Church felt not very hardy, next was Red Down, then EXALT with Black Lotus where EXALT .
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 04, 2016, 03:45:12 pm
I'm a bit new here and maybe it was previously asked, but could you please tell if Cults are intentionally different in strehngth and hardness? I just busted Red Down HQ and it felt easier than Black Lotus and generally Church felt not very hardy, next was Red Down, then EXALT with Black Lotus where EXALT .

They are not intentionally different, I just didn't found it necessary to make them perfectly balanced. There are too many random elements in the game anyway. And besides, it also depends on personal tactics and preferences, so another player might put them in a different order.

By the way, Black Lotus HQ used to be even harder - before the camo mechanics the Assassins were essentially invisible unless seen from a diagonal angle, which made them very hard to spot in tight corridors. But I think it's better now, without dirty hacks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 04, 2016, 06:46:52 pm
Oh, that's clear now, thanks! But assasins are still badass as hell :)

Btw, don't know if it is a known bug, but when you try to craft Stormlance game crashes

In addition to that "Railguns" ufopedia entry make gane to crush
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on November 04, 2016, 08:54:09 pm
Thank you very much for the kind words.

Yes, I have already modified alien missions so that Ethereals aren't as early. That was after 4.0c though, so unreleased yet. Congratulations on making it this far though!

What do you mean? Is it in the quick battle, or actual game?
Actual Game.  in base appear in a hangar. Is a starting Game only 3 month of game

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 04, 2016, 11:54:19 pm
Actual Game.  in base appear in a hangar. Is a starting Game only 3 month of game

Interesting... I have no idea how it happened, probably mixed ids.

Can you post a save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on November 04, 2016, 11:56:39 pm
This mod is getting better and better!

I just had a seemingly simple mission: bust some Church of Dagon worshippers. My two operatives approached them at night with their flashlights on. Suddenly one of them (shotgun wielding) got a headshot and those basterds run of the building looking for my remaining officer (armed with glock, electric club and two spare clips). I had to turn off my flashlight and hunt them one by one in the woods staying on the verge of light (from the flashlight dropped by my dead soldier). Simply epic! Thank you very much!

Also small bug report. I got CTD when game tries to spawn postal mission. It says:


Quote
OpenXcom has crashed: Error proccessing mission script named: soldierRampage, race: STR_POSTAL1 is not defined.  Extra information has been saced to openxcom.log

Also from my earlier playthrough (maybe it was allready reported) in Red Dawn HQ some of my soldiers were spawned in room they couldn't escape from (there was no doors, lift, ladder and the walls were undestructible, at least for explosives)

And I don't know if this is intentional or not but EXALT has some high-explosive armchairs in their lair.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2016, 12:02:51 am
This mod is getting better and better!

Thanks! Glad you're still playing it.

I just had a seemingly simple mission: bust some Church of Dagon worshippers. My two operatives approached them at night with their flashlights on. Suddenly one of them (shotgun wielding) got a headshot and those basterds run of the building looking for my remaining officer (armed with glock, electric club and two spare clips). I had to turn off my flashlight and hunt them one by one in the woods staying on the verge of light (from the flashlight dropped by my dead soldier). Simply epic! Thank you very much!

Yeah, walking around with flashlights (or flares) in hand is just teasing the sniper. :) Of course they have their role, but if you're fighting by night, you'd better stay in the dark, because the opponents won't be so nice as to light up themselves.

Also small bug report. I got CTD when game tries to spawn postal mission. It says:

Shit. I screwed up. :/

I'll fix it.

Also from my earlier playthrough (maybe it was allready reported) in Red Dawn HQ some of my soldiers were spawned in room they couldn't escape from (there was no doors, lift, ladder and the walls were undestructible, at least for explosives)

I think this has been fixed already.

And I don't know if this is intentional or not but EXALT has some high-explosive armchairs in their lair.

OK, I'll look at it.

Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: khade on November 05, 2016, 05:19:10 am
Just looking into this mod, interesting so far, not as quirky as pirates.  Are the bikini babe posters default? I can't remember those in the original game.

Found two issues, though I only thought to get a save for one. First is some stairs you can climb up, but not down, treats the area above the stairs as normal floor, got the save for that.  Second was a general enemy fenced off from your agents, shotgun took care of the fence.  Scatter from shotguns is a little insane, killed an agent directly behind the guy on one attempt.

Edit

was messing with the new battles part of the main menu, looking at the ufopedia,  I get a crash on the chemtrails transfer site, hybrid storage facility, and hybrid operations.  Haven't had time to check the whole topic, so I don't know if those have been mentioned.

Incidentally, what is the CAFE? I was in there to see what it was.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 05, 2016, 10:06:23 am
Wow, I thought I already knew that ethereals are pretty scary. Until I decided that the time has come to bust some bases. Just than I realized that of first three bases I had on surface two belong to ethereals and one to sectoids. Now I'm really considering to not to shoot down next snakeman base convoy as it seems only option to acquire more data slates without too much pain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2016, 10:57:31 am
Just looking into this mod, interesting so far, not as quirky as pirates.  Are the bikini babe posters default? I can't remember those in the original game.

I think it was added by Hobbes, and maybe Dioxine had something to do with it, I'm not sure. :)

Found two issues, though I only thought to get a save for one. First is some stairs you can climb up, but not down, treats the area above the stairs as normal floor, got the save for that.

Thanks, fixed (I hope).

Second was a general enemy fenced off from your agents, shotgun took care of the fence.

If it comes up again, please let me know which place it was.

was messing with the new battles part of the main menu, looking at the ufopedia,  I get a crash on the chemtrails transfer site, hybrid storage facility, and hybrid operations.  Haven't had time to check the whole topic, so I don't know if those have been mentioned.

When exactly did it crash? What race and terrain was used?

Incidentally, what is the CAFE? I was in there to see what it was.

It's a cafe. :q
Basically a starting point for one discreet mission, where you're not supposed to go guns blazing in a Dragonfly.

Wow, I thought I already knew that ethereals are pretty scary. Until I decided that the time has come to bust some bases. Just than I realized that of first three bases I had on surface two belong to ethereals and one to sectoids. Now I'm really considering to not to shoot down next snakeman base convoy as it seems only option to acquire more data slates without too much pain.

Whew, it's a good thing I fixed a bug with these slates recently.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 05, 2016, 11:21:50 am

Whew, it's a good thing I fixed a bug with these slates recently.

Well,  one would have to face them at some point anyway :)
Early ethereal presense could be considered an ingame situation apart from fact that I probably managed to snatch some tech and intel from them very early.

Also, may I ask whom anthropods belong to or are they a separate faction?

And I have a very strange situation: a very large MiB ship with Base mission sat down in the middle of USA and is sitting there for about a week or so. Is it supposed to do such things?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2016, 11:59:04 am
Early ethereal presense could be considered an ingame situation apart from fact that I probably managed to snatch some tech and intel from them very early.

I've modified race appearance tables, so it should be a little less outrageous with the next release.

Also, may I ask whom anthropods belong to or are they a separate faction?

For now they are just another alien race, but I plan to change it in the future - the "invasion from another dimension" arc.

And I have a very strange situation: a very large MiB ship with Base mission sat down in the middle of USA and is sitting there for about a week or so. Is it supposed to do such things?

Yes, because it technically is a base. (An old and rather simplified mechanics.) They constantly generate negative points, like and landed UFO, so if you leave them untouched, they'll pull you under. Raid them! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 05, 2016, 01:45:27 pm
Maybe assault cannon, miniguns androcket launchers must be pure two-handed?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2016, 02:00:17 pm
Maybe assault cannon, miniguns androcket launchers must be pure two-handed?

Yes, they should... I thought they were already. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 05, 2016, 10:04:26 pm
So, here i am again, with my nobody-asked-opinion, bad english and long text. Today i have some free time and decided to play oxcfiles a bit. After killing dozen or two sectoids, i saved game on strategy screen and begin to watch forward for research, giving no attention to other events.(my record is 4 months of that, without lose the game) Justwanted to see: what's next?
And... After elerium research, oxcfiles magically turns into FMP. With delta-radiation, cheating railguns, e.t.c.
Looks like there is plenty to do in late game. I dont want to say it is bad, understood me right, please. I was just surprised.  :o
And little advice for those, who just begin playng: do not sell corpses before research them.  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: khade on November 06, 2016, 02:41:38 am
The choices I had were farm, sectoid, scout, on beginner difficulty, since I was honestly just there to see what cafe was.

Found another map bug, which if you can figure out how to duplicate it, could be fun, a hill just had one level empty, your troops can't get on top, but can walk right through it.  The reason I think it could be fun duplicated is that you're investigating strange things, so why not reality itself having glitches?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 06, 2016, 12:04:46 pm
So, here i am again, with my nobody-asked-opinion, bad english and long text.

Great, I'm always eager to read your nobody-asked-opinions! :)

And... After elerium research, oxcfiles magically turns into FMP. With delta-radiation, cheating railguns, e.t.c.
Looks like there is plenty to do in late game. I dont want to say it is bad, understood me right, please. I was just surprised.  :o

Yes, you are correct... The late game is FMP at this point. And yes, it still needs a lot of work, since I'm creating stuff in chronological order.
I'm not sure what you mean by "cheating railguns" - if you mean they're too good and/or too easily accessible, rest assured that the entire Gauss tree will work differently. I never considered Railguns OP though, can you elaborate?

And little advice for those, who just begin playng: do not sell corpses before research them.  ;)

In any mod ever. 8)

The choices I had were farm, sectoid, scout, on beginner difficulty, since I was honestly just there to see what cafe was.

....Apparently, I should make more missions with the cafe. :)

Found another map bug, which if you can figure out how to duplicate it, could be fun, a hill just had one level empty, your troops can't get on top, but can walk right through it.  The reason I think it could be fun duplicated is that you're investigating strange things, so why not reality itself having glitches?

Hmm, interesting... Pity I can't do much with it if I don't know which one it is. It's probably one of Hobbes' terrain blocks, which means it's probably repaired on his side already... But if it's not, I'll have to know which one it was.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: BTAxis on November 07, 2016, 09:44:23 pm
Just tried this mod for the first time, and I found this:

(https://s15.postimg.org/783px17kb/nostairs.png)

My man managed to get up there, but he can no longer get out because there's a floor where the stairs should be! Mysterious!
Seriously though I have no idea if this is a known or even already-fixed issue, but I figured I'd report it anyway. Apologies if I'm being redundant.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: khade on November 08, 2016, 01:52:14 am
Redundancy is the spice of life!  Or is that Melange?  Regardless, I've brought it up, you've brought it up, I'm still not caught up in the topic, so who knows who else noticed the mysteriously missing stairs.  All we're missing is a chainsaw to easily open an exit, as that building doesn't have have second floor opening and the starting guns aren't really strong enough to take out actual walls, from what I can tell.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on November 08, 2016, 02:21:09 am
Just tried this mod for the first time, and I found this:

(https://s15.postimg.org/783px17kb/nostairs.png)

My man managed to get up there, but he can no longer get out because there's a floor where the stairs should be! Mysterious!
Seriously though I have no idea if this is a known or even already-fixed issue, but I figured I'd report it anyway. Apologies if I'm being redundant.
Yes i see this in my Game. I solved shooting and destroying a wall. Later. flying freeeeeee.

Enviado desde mi ECOO E04 3GB mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 08, 2016, 05:07:39 am
Luger and other guns that give bonus damage for accuracy can sometimes bust walls. You agents "snipe" the beams from the walls ;)

I've seen that map in Piratez too.

Also, Solarius, I'll get a dog mod with armored and alloy vests to share tomorrow :) just a few things to fix.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 08, 2016, 03:37:57 pm
Yes, the stairs bug was reported and fixed, will be added to the next release.

Also, Solarius, I'll get a dog mod with armored and alloy vests to share tomorrow :) just a few things to fix.

Damn, I really should go and do something about that dog race then... :)

EDIT: What names should dogs have? In what language? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 08, 2016, 04:10:36 pm
I went online and got the 24 most common dog names in English for both males and females. Seems sufficient. I left their last names as a space (will actually look if I can make it empty) as that's not really needed.

I'll give you the XAE attack dog mod by tonight. Just gotta fix the no promotion and no piloting stuff now, and also some carry capacity stuff.

The mod is made for OXCE+ since I don't want to maintain multiple executables and that's by far the best one. Especially once Yankees finishes the merging.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 08, 2016, 04:56:05 pm
I went online and got the 24 most common dog names in English for both males and females. Seems sufficient. I left their last names as a space (will actually look if I can make it empty) as that's not really needed.

Exactly what I thought. But you're saying you have names in English, shouldn't X-Com dogs be multilingual?

I know! I'll ask people for popular dog names in their languages. So, people, please write your suggestions for the furry friends!

I'll give you the XAE attack dog mod by tonight. Just gotta fix the no promotion and no piloting stuff now, and also some carry capacity stuff.

Cool, whenever you're ready. I need to make the basic version first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: yrizoud on November 08, 2016, 07:08:56 pm
I know! I'll ask people for popular dog names in their languages.
The dogs I know mostly refer to each other as "Woof" 8)
More seriously, you can pick from here for a more international range, though this is unfortunately not in "list" format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individual_dogs
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 08, 2016, 07:44:52 pm
The dogs I know mostly refer to each other as "Woof" 8)

Dog language isn't supported yet. 8)

More seriously, you can pick from here for a more international range, though this is unfortunately not in "list" format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individual_dogs

Yes, this is actually a good idea... X-Com dogs being named after famous dogs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 08, 2016, 07:49:35 pm
Exactly what I thought. But you're saying you have names in English, shouldn't X-Com dogs be multilingual?
Well, assuming XCom's working language is English (which would make sense for an international entity), I personally think it's fine to get English names. I went with most common English ones, but if you can find it, a list of most common worldwide one could work too. Also, maybe they're trained in an English speaking facility? :P

Quote
I know! I'll ask people for popular dog names in their languages. So, people, please write your suggestions for the furry friends!
See, I wouldn't even know.. I'm not a dog person. I guess that's sort of why going with a generic answer was fine for me.

Quote
Cool, whenever you're ready. I need to make the basic version first.
In theory, you could simply delete every reference you have to dogs in XCF and copy in the XAE ruleset and resources, I think. Just need to tweak a few things (ex.: I'm guessing you won't like the "scanners" I use, and you would probably want armored vests for dogs to become available only when you get armored vests for agents, amongst other things).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 08, 2016, 08:10:05 pm
@Arthanor: have you considered using the Guard Dog sprite from Piratez as base, since it's a bit better-looking than the 'regular' dog?

I'm also aiming at publishing the new version I promised before 0.4 either tomorrow or the day after, unless Solarius is again faster and puts out a new version before then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 08, 2016, 08:48:19 pm
No, I have done the work of putting a vest on the german shepherd a while back for the alloy vest and I very much dislike doing spriting work beyond recolors. I am not inclined to redo the work for the doberman type dog, especially as I'm not sure I'd say it's better looking. It looks very.. scrawny.

Edit: Here's what I have for dogs. Have fun plundering, Solarius ;)

Basically:
- Dog soldier type
- 3 armor types: None, Armored Vest (currently requires nothing), Alloy Armor Vest (currently requires personal armor)
- Bites with icons to match the armor (Built in weapon for each armors)
- A "doggy sense" motion scanner that enables dogs to remain sort of relevant in the later game as scouts (requires mind probe, built in weapon for each armors)
- UFOPaedia articles for each armors, the bite (it's the same for all armors) and "doggy sense"

This means dogs can't pick up stuff from the ground and put it in their "hands", you have to put it in the backpack. I personally think that's fine plus it completely disallows using items by having two built in weapons. You can of course remove the scanner too and recover the "default dog" pretty easily.

I am keeping the two built in weapons and will actually edit the mod to allow for dogs to have strength which will factor in bites and carry capacity, instead of the strength 1 "hack".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 10, 2016, 06:40:10 am
Yay! Separate subpage in Released Mods!

Also, may I ask what will be the next milestone and when can we expect new update? I'm of course have no intention to hurry you up, every bit of work you've done so far is awesome and fun to play, it's just I'm closing in to Cydonia mission and would probably like to start a new run of X-Com Files with higher difficulty as soon as any critical update releases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2016, 02:56:01 pm
Also, may I ask what will be the next milestone and when can we expect new update?

Soon, but it's mostly bug fixes and such. Still, there will also be real X-Com dogs (with names, experience etc.), mini-icons for armour types in the craft UI, new Red Dawn unit and some new map blocks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 10, 2016, 04:51:56 pm
I'm of course have no intention to hurry you up, every bit of work you've done so far is awesome and fun to play, it's just I'm closing in to Cydonia mission and would probably like to start a new run of X-Com Files with higher difficulty as soon as any critical update releases.

You're in luck!  ;D I just posted an altered version of the X-Com Files in a separate thread (an older version was in the middle of this one, but it's updated now, too). It has... lots of new stuff, and I hope some more of it migrates to XCF.

If you really want 0.41 or whatever it's going to be called, I'm going to update to that. No promises about 0.5+ right now, though.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2016, 04:55:06 pm
Next version hopefully tomorrow. I've been delayed by working on goddamn space battles (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg74042.html#msg74042) with Dioxine.

And I'm telling you, this is the most exciting thing I've ever done for X-Com. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 10, 2016, 04:55:48 pm
Soon, X-Com Files.... IN SPAAAAAACE!

Edit:  By the way, I've been playing a zombie mission, and I swear these agents are even worse shots that vanilla X-Com soldiers.  A 75% aimed shot feels more like a 50%, with the other 50% being hitting your buddy a few tiles away from the line of fire.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2016, 05:27:50 pm
Edit:  By the way, I've been playing a zombie mission, and I swear these agents are even worse shots that vanilla X-Com soldiers.  A 75% aimed shot feels more like a 50%, with the other 50% being hitting your buddy a few tiles away from the line of fire.

Condolences. :) But have you lost anyone? If not, then well, success.

Also, regarding dogs: everything's peachy, but I have two problems:
1) If I put a dog armour on a dog, I can't change it back to STR_ARMOR_DOGE.
2) Dog armour names aren't displayed properly, even though I gave them strings.

Arthanor in particular, do you know what could be wrong?

Here's the armours:

Code: [Select]
armors:
# dogs
  - type: STR_DOGE_ARMOR
    spriteSheet: DOGE.PCK
    spriteInv: inventory_DOGE
    customArmorPreviewIndex: 21
    corpseBattle:
      - STR_DOGE_CORPSE
    visibilityAtDay: 30
    visibilityAtDark: 20
    heatVision: 20
    frontArmor: 0
    sideArmor: 0
    rearArmor: 0
    underArmor: 0
    movementType: 0
    drawingRoutine: 4
    overKill: 1.5
    damageModifier:
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.5
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
    units:
      - STR_DOG
    builtInWeapons:
      - STR_DOGE_BITE
      - STR_DOGE_TRACK
    loftempsSet: [ 2 ]
  - type: STR_DOGE_ARMOR_UNDERWATER
    spriteSheet: DOGE.PCK
    spriteInv: inventory_DOGE
    customArmorPreviewIndex: 21
    corpseBattle:
      - STR_DOGE_CORPSE
    visibilityAtDay: 30
    visibilityAtDark: 20
    heatVision: 20
    frontArmor: 0
    sideArmor: 0
    rearArmor: 0
    underArmor: 0
    movementType: 0
    drawingRoutine: 4
    overKill: 1.5
    recovery:
      health:
        flatHundred: -1
    damageModifier:
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.5
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
    units:
      - STR_DOG
    builtInWeapons:
      - STR_DOGE_BITE
      - STR_DOGE_TRACK
    loftempsSet: [ 2 ]
  - type: STR_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST_ARMOR
    spriteSheet: DOGE_COMBAT_VEST.PCK
    spriteInv: inventory_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST
    customArmorPreviewIndex: 22
    corpseBattle:
      - STR_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST_CORPSE
    visibilityAtDay: 30
    visibilityAtDark: 20
    heatVision: 20
    frontArmor: 6
    sideArmor: 10
    rearArmor: 8
    underArmor: 4
    movementType: 0
    drawingRoutine: 4
    overKill: 1.5
    damageModifier:
      - 1.0
      - 0.8
      - 1.0
      - 0.8
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.9
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
    units:
      - STR_DOG
    builtInWeapons:
      - STR_DOGE_BITE
      - STR_DOGE_TRACK
    loftempsSet: [ 2 ]
  - type: STR_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST_ARMOR_UNDERWATER
    storeItem: STR_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST
    spriteSheet: DOGE_COMBAT_VEST.PCK
    spriteInv: inventory_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST
    customArmorPreviewIndex: 22
    corpseBattle:
      - STR_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST_CORPSE
    visibilityAtDay: 30
    visibilityAtDark: 20
    heatVision: 20
    frontArmor: 6
    sideArmor: 10
    rearArmor: 8
    underArmor: 4
    movementType: 0
    drawingRoutine: 4
    overKill: 1.5
    recovery:
      health:
        flatHundred: -1
    damageModifier:
      - 1.0
      - 0.8
      - 1.0
      - 0.8
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.9
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
    units:
      - STR_DOG
    builtInWeapons:
      - STR_DOGE_BITE
      - STR_DOGE_TRACK
    loftempsSet: [ 2 ]
  - type: STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST_ARMOR
    storeItem: STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST
    spriteSheet: DOGE_ALLOY_VEST.PCK
    spriteInv: inventory_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST
    customArmorPreviewIndex: 23
    corpseBattle:
      - STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST_CORPSE
    visibilityAtDay: 30
    visibilityAtDark: 20
    heatVision: 20
    frontArmor: 12
    sideArmor: 20
    rearArmor: 15
    underArmor: 7
    movementType: 0
    drawingRoutine: 4
    overKill: 1.5
    damageModifier:
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.8
      - 0.7
      - 0.7
      - 1.0
      - 0.9
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
    units:
      - STR_DOG
    builtInWeapons:
      - STR_DOGE_BITE
      - STR_DOGE_TRACK
    loftempsSet: [ 2 ]
  - type: STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST_ARMOR_UNDERWATER
    spriteSheet: DOGE_ALLOY_VEST.PCK
    spriteInv: inventory_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST
    customArmorPreviewIndex: 23
    corpseBattle:
      - STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST_CORPSE
    visibilityAtDay: 30
    visibilityAtDark: 20
    heatVision: 20
    frontArmor: 12
    sideArmor: 20
    rearArmor: 15
    underArmor: 7
    movementType: 0
    drawingRoutine: 4
    overKill: 1.5
    recovery:
      health:
        flatHundred: -1
    damageModifier:
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
      - 0.8
      - 0.7
      - 0.7
      - 1.0
      - 0.9
      - 1.0
      - 1.0
    units:
      - STR_DOG
    builtInWeapons:
      - STR_DOGE_BITE
      - STR_DOGE_TRACK
    loftempsSet: [ 2 ]

And here's the soldier entry:

Code: [Select]
soldiers:
  - type: STR_DOG
    costBuy: 10000
    costSalary: 800
    minStats:
      tu: 60
      stamina: 80
      health: 15
      bravery: 10
      reactions: 50
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 70
    maxStats:
      tu: 70
      stamina: 90
      health: 20
      bravery: 20
      reactions: 60
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 90
    statCaps:
      tu: 100
      stamina: 130
      health: 40
      bravery: 40
      reactions: 90
      firing: 10
      throwing: 10
      strength: 2
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 140
    trainingStatCaps:
      tu: 70
      stamina: 90
      health: 20
      bravery: 20
      reactions: 60
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 90
    armor: STR_DOGE_ARMOR
    armorForAvatar: STR_DOGE_ARMOR
    avatarOffsetX: 68
    avatarOffsetY: 48
    soldierNames:
      - delete
      - DogName/ZZZ_Doge.nam
    allowPiloting: false
    allowPromotion: false
    standHeight: 12
    kneelHeight: 12
    femaleFrequency: 50
    deathMale: 94
    deathFemale: 94
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 10, 2016, 05:36:32 pm
It was my first mission with the Dragonfly, so I had plenty of dakka to keep the agents alive.  No deaths, and 31 zombie corpses!

Edit: Aaaaand dangit, cult base just a few miles out of Dragonfly range, and my nearby base was just built, no hangars yet.  Van time!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 10, 2016, 08:18:15 pm
Next version hopefully tomorrow. I've been delayed by working on goddamn space battles (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg74042.html#msg74042) with Dioxine.

And I'm telling you, this is the most exciting thing I've ever done for X-Com. :)

OH MY, THIS IS SPACE MISSION

ur mad guys, ur really mad and doing mad things and I like them so much

though XPiratez is a bit too much total conversion to my taste it includes so many cool features
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2016, 11:58:06 pm
Update on the dogs issue: they also crash the game if I try entering their inventory.

I'm starting to think these stupid mutts aren't worth the trouble. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on November 11, 2016, 01:00:25 am
Update on the dogs issue: they also crash the game if I try entering their inventory.

I'm starting to think these stupid mutts aren't worth the trouble. :P

Don't give up. If it's something engine can't handle, I can help with that...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2016, 01:11:54 am
Don't give up. If it's something engine can't handle, I can help with that...

Thanks. Well, I made some progress, the only problem left is that the avatar portrait remains human, even if I change the armorForAvatar flag to STR_DOGE_ARMOR - which is a dog picture. I have no idea why, so in the end I changed the coordinates so it only shows the black background.
Also I had many problems with multiple dog armours (not being able to change back, strings not displayed, etc.), but for now I've decided to just leave it; I've never been particularly convinced about putting armours on dogs anyway. (Though I suppose US army does this kind of thing.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 11, 2016, 02:17:08 am
Well, sorry I couldn't help, I was pretty busy today. Good to see that you have solved most problems. :)

For some reason I don't have "avatar instead of ranks" in the executable I tested the mod on, so I can't help with that :/ I'll try to have a look within the next few days if you don't manage to fix it. But it does seem like defining the "armorForAvatar" should do it, so I don't know...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 11, 2016, 06:40:19 pm
Did you ever get any further on the above-ground bases idea?  I'm interested in making a mod that has above-ground bases, but I haven't made any progress other than replacing the dirt filled-in area with empty space.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2016, 07:11:23 pm
Did you ever get any further on the above-ground bases idea?  I'm interested in making a mod that has above-ground bases, but I haven't made any progress other than replacing the dirt filled-in area with empty space.

Sadly not yet, because there is a number of serious technical problems with it.
Most importantly, the base tileset is already almost full, and making a surface area would require many more tiles.
Secondly, the surface would be independent of global texture, which means it would always look the same - either in a jungle or on an ice field. Not a deal breaker, since you can just make it all concrete and asphalt, but it wouldn't be too easy to make it look good.
Finally, while you can add a surface level to the base map blocks, you can't have surface buildings and independent underground buildings - if you want to build underground, you have to demolish the one above it. I find it rather sad, but it also causes logistic problems, like making sure all underground buildings are accessible without giving each building a separate entry from the surface.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 11, 2016, 08:32:32 pm
I mostly wanted to be able to have the unfilled tiles draw from the global texture, or at least get the day/night shade, but this puts more of a damper on things.  Thanks for the reply anyways.

Edit:  Oh, and dang are these cult bases tough.  I can't even really get out of the Dragonfly!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2016, 08:43:57 pm
I mostly wanted to be able to have the unfilled tiles draw from the global texture, or at least get the day/night shade, but this puts more of a damper on things.  Thanks for the reply anyways.

If you manage to make some kind of progress here, please let me know. :)

Edit:  Oh, and dang are these cult bases tough.  I can't even really get out of the Dragonfly!

Heh, I just tried to do it with a van... I thought I'll manage by night, but I lost a Commissar and another soldier straight away to well-placed EXALT officers and had to put the pedal to the metal.

EDIT: I've decided to decrease some low-ranking enemies' Bravery, since they are pretty much immune to surrendering otherwise.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 11, 2016, 09:56:41 pm
I could take a look at writing an engine edit so that shade: -1 on the base alienDeployment takes the global shade level...  The other stuff, I don't know yet.

I'm on try #3 on the EXALT base - first one, my pilot put me down with the ramp facing the base, number two almost had it all exterminated, then ran an unlucky corner into an enforcer's knife.  This one the Master was nice enough to run out front where I could grab him, now I just want to kill all the rest to make them pay for the two good agents I lost so far.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: dorsidwarf on November 11, 2016, 11:39:33 pm
I've never had an enemy surrender myself, they just charge into automatic weapons fire with knives and get mowed down.
But I've neveractually there was one where we spawned surrounded on all sides and had to run for it after my best agent nearly bought the farm had trouble with the cult bases if I use the van rather than the car - its just a matter of the number of agents, and hence volume of fire, you can insert into the site.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 12, 2016, 12:35:26 am
Version 0.4.1 is online.

Changelog:

- Dogs are soldiers now (not HWPs). No special dog armours yet, because the engine is acting up (read: I have no idea what I'm doing).
- New mini-icons for armor types in the craft UI (graphics by Dioxine and Juku).
- Updated the camouflage engine for Meridian's new code.
- Added new Red Dawn unit: Pioneer.
- Added X-Com Psiclone.
- Added a few new Desert and Grassland Desert blocks.
- Added Tundra Desert terrain.
- Decreased Bravery on some weaker human enemies.
- Gauss Pistol fires faster.
- Smaller Rail clips.
- Fixed a critical crash with Homicidal Maniac missions.
- Fixed wrong ratios and unlock times for Alien Terror races.
- Fixed an error in the COMRCURBAN16 map.
- Fixed a small error in the XBASS_09 map.
- Fixed a small error in the DAWNURBAN12 map AGAIN.

EDIT: There's a crash on one new unit, please use a hotfix from this post (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg74206.html#msg74206).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: dorsidwarf on November 13, 2016, 02:07:33 am
Does anyone have a tactical method of fighting chupacabra? They're horrendous, they can run from the maximum view range of your guys (at which 90% of your soldiers miss every shot) to melee range in 1 turn, or at the most 2, and then insta-kill Your Dudes. I've begun just immediately abandoning any mission with them, they're that nasty (especially as the second monster after zombies)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on November 13, 2016, 03:44:13 am
They cannot attack you from outside maximum view range, which is 40 tiles; their charging range is about 25 maximum. In early game, I use .45s to fight them (good long range acc for a pistol), with shotguns as backup to ensure a kill from close range. Also, if the terrain is too dangerous, I abort. The general rule is, abort if you're not sure what'll happen. The only reason I try these missions even early game is that there are usually only 1 to 3 Chupacabras on a map.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 13, 2016, 02:39:01 pm
By the way. I looked into research rules to find, when i can fill empty equipment slots of my advanced crafts... and find nothing. Are they just not ready yet, or i'm dumb?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2016, 03:06:04 pm
By the way. I looked into research rules to find, when i can fill empty equipment slots of my advanced crafts... and find nothing. Are they just not ready yet, or i'm dumb?

They're not ready yet... I've been working on them a year ago, they were crashing the game, I never got around to finishing it as I started doing other things. If anyone want to help with the ruleset, I'd appreciate it. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 13, 2016, 10:23:17 pm
- Dogs are soldiers now (not HWPs). No special dog armours yet, because the engine is acting up (read: I have no idea what I'm doing).
I'm curious, what's not working? The avatar/rank thing?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2016, 10:28:22 pm
I'm curious, what's not working? The avatar/rank thing?

Swapping armours. Give a dog some other gear, then change it back to unarmoured... Won't work.

There is a doge.txt file in the Ruleset folder, which contains all data except extraSprites (except armour definition for each one of 48 "faces"). The resources are in the Doge folder. If anyone wants to tackle this, you're welcome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 13, 2016, 10:35:07 pm
hum.. that's weird.. worked for me. Will look into it.. eventually/next weekend.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2016, 10:52:15 pm
hum.. that's weird.. worked for me. Will look into it.. eventually/next weekend.

Much appreciated!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on November 14, 2016, 08:52:31 am
Are your surrender mechanics different from Piratez?  Twice I've had battles against EXALT where the first guy woke up but he didn't surrender after I took down the second.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 14, 2016, 10:33:07 am
Are your surrender mechanics different from Piratez?  Twice I've had battles against EXALT where the first guy woke up but he didn't surrender after I took down the second.

Yeah, it's different - surrender kicks in when all remaining enemies are panicking.

This is because morale works differently in our mods - X-Com Files doesn't have the "dynamically adjust your morale to your bravery" thing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 14, 2016, 01:58:06 pm
They're not ready yet... I've been working on them a year ago, they were crashing the game, I never got around to finishing it as I started doing other things. If anyone want to help with the ruleset, I'd appreciate it. :)

Apparently, nobody reads my changelog. :'( This has been in since August.

As a general advertisement, if you think of something that's an extension or combination of previous work, chances are, something like it exists in the "Idea Proving Grounds" version.

If it's something qualitatively new, requires changes in the codebase or is otherwise creative, wait for Solarius to come up with (or steal) it.  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 14, 2016, 02:13:45 pm
Juku, I appreciate your help and I've used quite a bit of your code, but the harsh truth is that your version is so hard to work with that I'd need to hire a secretary to keep up with it.
As I've said before, it would be MUCH easier for everyone, yourself included, if you wrote a mod to a mod instead of modifying the source file every time the mod gets updated.

Anyway, I'll be happy to use your changes, cheers!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 14, 2016, 04:10:44 pm
Juku, I appreciate your help and I've used quite a bit of your code, but the harsh truth is that your version is so hard to work with that I'd need to hire a secretary to keep up with it.
As I've said before, it would be MUCH easier for everyone, yourself included, if you wrote a mod to a mod instead of modifying the source file every time the mod gets updated.

Anyway, I'll be happy to use your changes, cheers!

Well, I've offered to do the secretary bit at least twice, for select changes if nothing else.

But, as Dioxine noted, making a mod to the base mod is largely an execise in futility since I have so many changes I'd have to essentially maintain a base and a diff file for each ruleset, publish only the latter and it'd be outdated the moment you publish a new version.

That's why I made the 'Idea Proving Ground' thread, so I'd know where the secretary is needed. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 14, 2016, 04:13:32 pm
Sadly not yet, because there is a number of serious technical problems with it.
Most importantly, the base tileset is already almost full, and making a surface area would require many more tiles.
Secondly, the surface would be independent of global texture, which means it would always look the same - either in a jungle or on an ice field. Not a deal breaker, since you can just make it all concrete and asphalt, but it wouldn't be too easy to make it look good.
Finally, while you can add a surface level to the base map blocks, you can't have surface buildings and independent underground buildings - if you want to build underground, you have to demolish the one above it. I find it rather sad, but it also causes logistic problems, like making sure all underground buildings are accessible without giving each building a separate entry from the surface.

I've been thinking about what we could do about this - I might be able to add a bit of code to at the very least take the day/night shade from the globe.  Perhaps I could also pare down the tileset a bit by simplifying some of the vanilla maps (i.e. taking out some of the decorations), and take care of the logistics issues by making the surface facilities have a basic underground corridor or maintenance level to connect to underground-only facilities.  I can see why you haven't tried much more on this; it's a lot of work for not a ton of benefit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 14, 2016, 04:25:33 pm
Well, I've offered to do the secretary bit at least twice, for select changes if nothing else.

But, as Dioxine noted, making a mod to the base mod is largely an execise in futility since I have so many changes I'd have to essentially maintain a base and a diff file for each ruleset, publish only the latter and it'd be outdated the moment you publish a new version.

That's why I made the 'Idea Proving Ground' thread, so I'd know where the secretary is needed. :P

Yeah, sorry, it's not that you're doing things wrong, it is I who get scared by the sheer amount of changes to track. Although I admit I'd do a mod to mod in your place, but it's a matter of preference.

I'll try and have a look at it today or tomorrow, if I need help I'll ask you. So please take care of me senpai :P

I've been thinking about what we could do about this - I might be able to add a bit of code to at the very least take the day/night shade from the globe.

Yes, this would be absolutely necessary.

Perhaps I could also pare down the tileset a bit by simplifying some of the vanilla maps (i.e. taking out some of the decorations)

Tough; it's not like the base is overloaded with props, so it's hard to start taking them down and not end up with bare walls. What one could do is some .mcd magic with moving destroyed tiles outside the normal tile number range of 256, but it would mean building the base almost from scratch, so... not really viable. But I'm open to discussion regarding possible tile removal.

and take care of the logistics issues by making the surface facilities have a basic underground corridor or maintenance level to connect to underground-only facilities.

Yes, it should work, as long as surface buildings are still connected to each other.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 15, 2016, 04:32:52 pm
Yes, this would be absolutely necessary.
Agreed, it's the first thing I'm planning on taking a look at.  Coding-wise, I might also take a look at getting the geoscape texture for separate terrains like UFO missions, so it's not always concrete and asphalt samey-ness, but that'd take more work.

Quote
Tough; it's not like the base is overloaded with props, so it's hard to start taking them down and not end up with bare walls. What one could do is some .mcd magic with moving destroyed tiles outside the normal tile number range of 256, but it would mean building the base almost from scratch, so... not really viable. But I'm open to discussion regarding possible tile removal.
Adding above ground stuff to all the vanilla maps is still kinda re-building the base from scratch, but I don't think I'm up for .mcd magic.

Quote
Yes, it should work, as long as surface buildings are still connected to each other.
I'll come up with some basic ideas once I have some time to practice a bit more on the maps.

--- posts merged - Solarius Scorch ---

Got some slight progress for ya - getting the shade into the base defense wasn't too hard with an edit to the engine code, then adding
Code: [Select]
    shade: -1
    maxShade: 8 #or maybe 7 to keep it from being too dark
to the alienDeployments gave the attached results for daytime vs. nighttime.

I have the world texture at the location grabbed too, it would just require setting new terrains for each texture at the base, maybe a ruleset definition for base terrain by geoscape texture - in other words, the hard work part of making this happen. =P

Edit: shade: 9 is the maximum setting that you still have daytime vision, right?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 15, 2016, 07:06:27 pm
Just popping in to ask a question:
How do I research alien alloys? I'm in August 1999 and have done plenty of landed and crashed UFO missions. I have nuclear laser rifles, researched elerium, all that stuff.
But despite having tons of alien alloys in storage, I still can't do anything related to alloys. Is it some key mission that hasn't happened yet or an interrogation I need to do..?

(Also, just a bit of a side question, but is there actually TFTD [underwater] content in this? It seems like there is based on what some people are saying, various ufopedia entries, and some usable-underwater equipment, but it definitely seems like that's not possible.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 16, 2016, 10:20:44 pm
Just popping in to ask a question:
How do I research alien alloys? I'm in August 1999 and have done plenty of landed and crashed UFO missions. I have nuclear laser rifles, researched elerium, all that stuff.
But despite having tons of alien alloys in storage, I still can't do anything related to alloys. Is it some key mission that hasn't happened yet or an interrogation I need to do..?

Hello and welcome,

Alien Alloys require Laboratory, Workshop and Durathread. (The first two for the scientific/industrial power, the latter because it contains a more accessible version of Alien Alloys to start from.)

(Also, just a bit of a side question, but is there actually TFTD [underwater] content in this? It seems like there is based on what some people are saying, various ufopedia entries, and some usable-underwater equipment, but it definitely seems like that's not possible.)

Yes, there are some underwater missions - an entire arc, in fact. It's somewhat skeletal, but perfectly playable. Church of Dagon will lead you there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 16, 2016, 10:50:31 pm
Huh. I believe I already eliminated the Church of Dagon. Their HQ had some deep ones, but there wasn't any underwater stuff.

But thanks for the answers! I'll just assume that durathread is in the hybrid arc, since that just appeared.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 16, 2016, 11:01:30 pm
Huh. I believe I already eliminated the Church of Dagon. Their HQ had some deep ones, but there wasn't any underwater stuff.

Have you interrogated any Deep Ones?

But thanks for the answers! I'll just assume that durathread is in the hybrid arc, since that just appeared.

No, it's related to the Red Dawn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 17, 2016, 12:37:49 am
Have you interrogated any Deep Ones?
...Oh. That'd do it. RIP.

No, it's related to the Red Dawn.
Of course, the one cult I've ignored (out of apathy).

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the answers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 17, 2016, 12:43:59 am
...Oh. That'd do it. RIP.

I should add an option to get a Deep One even if you destroy the Church of Dagon.

Of course, the one cult I've ignored (out of apathy).

Yeah I know, they're tough :P

And now, the news:

EDIT: Version 0.4.2 has been released!

- Added a male Pioneer variant.
- Fixed another critical bug with Homicidal Maniac missions.
- Fixed a corrupted Reptoid sprite.
- Fixed a crash on Port and Steppe terrains.
- Fixed a bug with unavailable Psi Lab.
- Fixed unsellable Interceptor.

As you can see, it's almost entirely bugfixes. Also, probably the last update before the new OXCE+ version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 17, 2016, 06:54:05 am
I should add an option to get a Deep One even if you destroy the Church of Dagon.

Strongly yes for such an option, some sort of coastal village raid or something like that.

As you can see, it's almost entirely bugfixes. Also, probably the last update before the new OXCE+ version.

Would it mean any serious changes or delays for your mod or you are just keeping up to date?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 17, 2016, 10:27:55 am
Strongly yes for such an option, some sort of coastal village raid or something like that.

Yes, this has actually been in the plan for quite some time but kinda got forgotten...

Would it mean any serious changes or delays for your mod or you are just keeping up to date?

Probably no special delays.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on November 19, 2016, 08:49:54 am
How are you meant to access the cannons?  I researched the light cannon and contacted M.A.G.M.A but I only have the option to buy more light cannons and no ammunition.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 19, 2016, 12:35:02 pm
How are you meant to access the cannons?  I researched the light cannon and contacted M.A.G.M.A but I only have the option to buy more light cannons and no ammunition.

For now, it requires finding and researching the Heavy Cannon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 19, 2016, 01:27:33 pm
As I understood, quite a lot of top-end Earth-tech weapons require finding one from enemies, MiB for example.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2016, 12:58:00 am
As I understood, quite a lot of top-end Earth-tech weapons require finding one from enemies, MiB for example.

Yes, probably most weapons actually. Though you also keep getting better stuff on promotions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dreamsicle on November 20, 2016, 06:59:18 pm
So I've got the Red Dawn HQ mission and I've having lot's of trouble doing it in a Dragonfly. Do I need to do this mission to advance to Phase 3 and presumably a Skyranger? If the answer is no, does the mission come back if it disappears?

Great mod overall though. I really like how it progresses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2016, 07:28:39 pm
No, you don't need to do the mission straight away; it should spawn regularly (though the location may change, since their verhushka is moving a lot). So take your time to prepare.

And no, you don't necessarily beat to beat the Red Dawn to advance to III. You must however beat
al least one starting cult - Red Dawn is one of them, but some other may prove easier to defeat.

So good luck, and see you on the fun level! :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 20, 2016, 07:45:20 pm
I've found EXALT to be the easiest to deal with in my experience. Generally, weak units with insane damage you can deal with (by tactics to avoid being shot, and killing them before they kill you) but tough units, even with comparatively lower damage, are more of a pain because you can't drop them before they shoot you as reliably.

The church and red dawn both have tough units, and the black lotus have wtfpwn assassins (Camo is WAY worse than being tough, I still hate them :P Maybe in my next playthrough I'll hate them less, especially now that I realized Exo-Armor, with it's cutting resist, is probably the thing to wear when facing them).

More hardware and more people will certainly help with the HQs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2016, 08:19:39 pm
Thanks Arthanor, I was wondering myself which one would be easiest. If I were to choose, I'd probably say Dagon, but as you said, they can be troublesome too. EXALT has tough basic troops, which is why I don't like fighting them, so I'm a bit surprised you haven't complained about that. (On the other hand, Dagon and Red Dawn people have less armour, but generally more health too.)


Also this post from Yankes' thread:

queue XComFiles crazy mission where there is an explosive set for 25 turns somewhere on the map, with enough power and radius to raze the whole place, which you must find and throw in a deep, deep hole somewhere on the map to save everyone. :D

Yeah, or just shoot everyone like usual. :P

It's a fairly interesting idea though! The bomb would have to be indestructible too, but okay - this can be done. I'd do it, if only for the sake of having a bottomless pit, something like 30 levels deep, to throw stuff I want to get rid off. :P

(Yeah, I always wanted a bit more life simulation in X-Com. Like, who's dating whom, or that these three agents go play snooker together. Dwarf Fortress kinda give you this, despite its shortcomings.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 20, 2016, 08:46:25 pm
Thanks Arthanor, I was wondering myself which one would be easiest. If I were to choose, I'd probably say Dagon, but as you said, they can be troublesome too. EXALT has tough basic troops, which is why I don't like fighting them, so I'm a bit surprised you haven't complained about that. (On the other hand, Dagon and Red Dawn people have less armour, but generally more health too.)
I don't know why, but I've never had issues killing EXALT. I can't say for sure, but maybe their health+armor is lower than for the other factions? Although it's usually not the basic soldiers that give trouble (those a chumps, with crap stats and crap weapons), it's the higher ups that get annoying if they don't go down because they have the weapons and accuracy to take you down. Actually, I remember one van team that had to run away with 3 wounded, 2 unconscious because of the first EXALT enforcer I met. That guy was a pistol sniper! But I thought that was fair. I'd have gone after the church of Dagon too, but after the first attempt where I killed the sorcerer, they never showed up again. Generally I'd rank it: EXALT&Church/Red Dawn/.../.../Black Lotus :P

Also, complain?! comment, criticize, sure, but I only complain about assassins :P

Quote
Also this post from Yankes' thread:

Yeah, or just shoot everyone like usual. :P

It's a fairly interesting idea though! The bomb would have to be indestructible too, but okay - this can be done. I'd do it, if only for the sake of having a bottomless pit, something like 30 levels deep, to throw stuff I want to get rid off. :P

Yeah, you'd need a "hard enforced" survival win condition where you have to actually wait those extra turns even if there are no enemies left on the map.

Alternatively, you could have a "bomb disposal" mission with a 0 TU enemy that actually is the bomb. If you kill it, it blows up like a cyberdisc but way worse and destroys everything. If you don't kill it, mission doesn't end and you lose on T25 (fluffed as bomb blew up, everybody died). Only way to win is to "stun" the bomb with a specific "bomb disarming gizmo" that does stun damage and requires 100% TUs, but against plasma/laser/hacking resistance. Give the bomb 100% resist to stun so you can't use other means of stunning and pick a damage type for the gizmo that has no other way of applying stun so you can't cheat by bringing a "laser stunner" instead of the gizmo. Stunning the bomb requires multiple applications of the gizmo, to represent the agent(s) working on disarming it.

Gah but that doesn't really work since you'd also need to kill all enemies before T25 in order to not lose, instead of just the bomb. Can you spawn units in a specific spot? You could... spawn the bomb unit on top of a bomb item which comes pre-primed and kills everybody in 25 turns, then make the victory condition survival to turn 26 (only manageable if you stun the bomb unit, and disarm the bomb item by taking it in your inventory to un-prime it like a grenade) and the other enemies you don't care about.

So convoluted for such a simple game mission idea..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2016, 09:35:54 pm
Yeah, setting mission conditions isn't good in X-Com. I mean, it got significantly better when compared to vanilla, but still far from perfect...

I wonder if we should make a wishlist for new mission conditions somewhere...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 20, 2016, 11:10:33 pm
lol I'm just the quartermaster of a dead armory :P (and mod player/critic(/complainer? :P) If I were one of our major mod makers, I might dare bother Meridian ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2016, 11:29:41 pm
lol I'm just the quartermaster of a dead armory :P (and mod player/critic(/complainer? :P) If I were one of our major mod makers, I might dare bother Meridian ;)

You know full well, you're being a little coquette now, just gimme your ideas :) Maybe we'll have a new thread actually.

EDIT: Discussion on mission conditions continues here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5076.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 22, 2016, 07:51:07 pm
Please, add few flashligths and elecroflares from the beginning. Nigths are really dark here and not always transfer will arrive before first mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 22, 2016, 10:59:09 pm
Please, add few flashligths and elecroflares from the beginning. Nigths are really dark here and not always transfer will arrive before first mission.

OK, sure. Maybe not flares, but flashlights are fine.

Though I feel the need to point out that it's also the best way to get shot. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 23, 2016, 11:46:27 pm
Few hours into the game.

I feel really underpowered from the start - especially against strange monsers. I do take Logistic as a first reaearch to bring extra manpower. I also have to take tons of amunnition to actually be able to kill everything. Some missions take a huge amounts of turns, because there are like 19-20 mobs (Superhuman difficulty if thats the case). Sometimes creature can be one shooted; another time it take 5 shoots to kill it (XCom baby!). After awhile it become so annoying that I tend to abandon mission after scoring few kills.
Maybe some early explosives? Molotov coctail? I am not far. Got Promotion rank I and Nitro Rifle + Magnum + Shotgun.

Dogs. They use Morale to fuel their abillity to scan but with their low Bravery they often Panic or go Berserk. Solution would be to set their Bravery to 100. With their low Health it would be really nice to set their TU to 80 as descripted in UFOpedia.

After a few months what to do with cash? Got 3 Gym running to train soldiers. Should I build another base or HQ facillity to get extra 5 lab room? Got Xeno and Reasearch recruitment but did not unlocekd Laboratory yet (No spoilers please).

It is really stragne for me to see reaserch topics like "Axe", "Wooden Club" etc. Those techs are really fast to reaserch but why they are there? 5 scientists need one day to figure what Axe is for?
Another problem with reaserach is that I am unable to figure out which tech is fast to reasearch and which is not. As a general rule starting techs take long time. Looted weapons take around day to unlock. My suggestion would be as follow:
!) Renamne "Axe" like tech to "Weapon analyse: Axe" so it would be know that this only for UFOpedia and market unlock
2) For weapons concepts like Lasers it would go "Weapon concept: Laser Weapons" and it would be know that it will take forever to reaserch
3) There could be more tags "Theory: [tech name]", "Advenced Theory: [tech name]"

Because of slow reaserch progression, way too many many Cult/Stragne monster missions and some lack in firepower game becomes not so smooth and enjoyable as it could be.

Is possible to rename "Soldier" at purchase screen to "Agent"?
Is possible to rename "Aliens" at the battle summary screen to "Enemies"?

Flashligths are cool addition. And stunning with them is funny as hell BUT is it possible to place some street ligths durning urban map missions? It would be really cool.

Dont get me wrong.  I post mostly thing which I think should be improved. List of thing I like and love in this overhaul is much longer :)

Edit: Mission with Abducted Farmers. Don't like the concept of wiping whole team becase 10 turns have passed.  After that time UFO will arrive to abduct farmers? What is the story behind this :D ?

PS Got wipe out by pack of Chupacabras :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 24, 2016, 12:55:34 am
I feel really underpowered from the start - especially against strange monsers. I do take Logistic as a first reaearch to bring extra manpower. I also have to take tons of amunnition to actually be able to kill everything. Some missions take a huge amounts of turns, because there are like 19-20 mobs (Superhuman difficulty if thats the case). Sometimes creature can be one shooted; another time it take 5 shoots to kill it (XCom baby!). After awhile it become so annoying that I tend to abandon mission after scoring few kills.
Maybe some early explosives? Molotov coctail? I am not far. Got Promotion rank I and Nitro Rifle + Magnum + Shotgun.

Yeah, things like Zombies are made partially to enable certain tactics that needed much love. And they're quite difficult if you don't adapt. Sure, they take many turns, but it's not a speedy game most of the time.

Dogs. They use Morale to fuel their abillity to scan but with their low Bravery they often Panic or go Berserk. Solution would be to set their Bravery to 100. With their low Health it would be really nice to set their TU to 80 as descripted in UFOpedia.

Their Bravery quickly goes up though. Consider it training the dog to not get distracted by every fly on the battlefield. :)

After a few months what to do with cash? Got 3 Gym running to train soldiers. Should I build another base or HQ facillity to get extra 5 lab room? Got Xeno and Reasearch recruitment but did not unlocekd Laboratory yet (No spoilers please).

Yeah, yeah, the cash is obscene. I really need to do something about it, I know!

It is really stragne for me to see reaserch topics like "Axe", "Wooden Club" etc. Those techs are really fast to reaserch but why they are there? 5 scientists need one day to figure what Axe is for?

Not what an axe is, but what this particular Ax is. But I understand it's a bit... abstract. Would you have a suggestion how to word it better?

Another problem with reaserach is that I am unable to figure out which tech is fast to reasearch and which is not. As a general rule starting techs take long time. Looted weapons take around day to unlock. My suggestion would be as follow:
!) Renamne "Axe" like tech to "Weapon analyse: Axe" so it would be know that this only for UFOpedia and market unlock
2) For weapons concepts like Lasers it would go "Weapon concept: Laser Weapons" and it would be know that it will take forever to reaserch
3) There could be more tags "Theory: [tech name]", "Advenced Theory: [tech name]"

Maybe someday, but it's a lot of work (really) for not that much gain. So, not a priority.

Because of slow reaserch progression, way too many many Cult/Stragne monster missions and some lack in firepower game becomes not so smooth and enjoyable as it could be.

Sure, it's an alpha after all; I take suggestions well.

Is possible to rename "Soldier" at purchase screen to "Agent"?

I thought I did...? Can you post a screenshot?

Is possible to rename "Aliens" at the battle summary screen to "Enemies"?

I guess. Would need to track down the strings...

Flashligths are cool addition. And stunning with them is funny as hell BUT is it possible to place some street ligths durning urban map missions? It would be really cool.

But... but there are lights. Not on all maps of course, but there are some where there are streets.

Dont get me wrong.  I post mostly thing which I think should be improved. List of thing I like and love in this overhaul is much longer :)

Sure, and you have some good points!

Edit: Mission with Abducted Farmers. Don't like the concept of wiping whole team becase 10 turns have passed.  After that time UFO will arrive to abduct farmers? What is the story behind this :D ?

OK, I'll work on the briefing. (In short, MiBs of some sort are coming, because they've also heard of the guy...)

PS Got wipe out by pack of Chupacabras :(

Yeah, they're the worst...
Thank you very much for your thoughts!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 24, 2016, 04:53:29 pm
Qucik sceenshot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 24, 2016, 06:46:13 pm
I swear it's not showing on my end. :)

Well, perhaps I fixed it at some point already... Thanks for the report!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on November 25, 2016, 06:11:57 am
Finally got the will and time to try this fantastic mod

Decided for the lulz to do a blind Let's Play on RPGCodex forum, take a look if you feel it

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lets-play-the-x-com-files-0-4-2-alpha-blind.112132/#post-4841084

Much lulz is being had
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 25, 2016, 09:23:34 am
Solarius, look at these two. If it's okay, then later will be autopsia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 25, 2016, 12:16:54 pm
They're perfect. Perfect! Thank you so much!

And yes, autopsy pics are very much needed, since I have no idea how to make it at a sufficient quality.
Also please check your private messages :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on November 25, 2016, 04:45:04 pm
Qucik sceenshot.

Maybe you are using en_UK strings? As far as I know Sol writes this mod only for en_US.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 25, 2016, 04:54:50 pm
Now have few minutes to write.

About dogs. They are early game tool. They take away one party member slot (and early this is a huge handicap). Their survivability isnt great. They cant train at Gym neither at Animal Pen. Idea of using Morale as mana pool was geat but it bring issues with games core mechanic. It is your mod  and your design decision but for sake of game tests and balance you could just try to pump them a little bit for peroid of few next versions and see what feedback you will get. If 100 Bravery is too high lets try 50 +/-10.

About "Axe"-like reaserch. As I mentioned - renaming at least those fast techs.

When do you plan to realese next version or update? I am eager to restart and try again but would rather wait for new build/version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 25, 2016, 04:55:56 pm
Maybe you are using en_UK strings? As far as I know Sol writes this mod only for en_US.

Yes, I do. Will change it. Thank you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 25, 2016, 07:27:28 pm
Maybe you are using en_UK strings? As far as I know Sol writes this mod only for en_US.

Yeah, for now. I'd love to have more languages of course, but I can only maintain one at a time; besides, texts keep changing, so it's too early for translations.

About dogs. They are early game tool. They take away one party member slot (and early this is a huge handicap). Their survivability isnt great. They cant train at Gym neither at Animal Pen. Idea of using Morale as mana pool was geat but it bring issues with games core mechanic. It is your mod  and your design decision but for sake of game tests and balance you could just try to pump them a little bit for peroid of few next versions and see what feedback you will get. If 100 Bravery is too high lets try 50 +/-10.

OK, I'll think about it. Dogs are still kinda WIP - for example, no armours yet.

About "Axe"-like reaserch. As I mentioned - renaming at least those fast techs.

Meh, I just can't see it. An item is an item, going bananas with project names would just make things confusing.

When do you plan to realese next version or update? I am eager to restart and try again but would rather wait for new build/version.

I don't expect new early game changes soon, so fire away - it's very unlikely that saves may get unvalidated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 25, 2016, 08:46:34 pm
Meh, I just can't see it. An item is an item, going bananas with project names would just make things confusing.

I think it's telling that players keep commenting on this. I also agree with the others that it's all kinds of silly.

If an agent wants an axe because he's some kind of axe hero that fancies facing alien monsters with one or they want a katana or a machete... they can just go and buy one at a shop or online. You can put those things in checked luggage even as a civilian. And although you might get some weird looks, you can also walk around with one, especially if you put it in a shopping bag ("What? I just got this axe. I'm going to the cabin this weekend and I'll need to split wood for the campfire!"). Then when the monsters come out, or when you go in the middle of the woods to find them, who's going to argue that you shouldn't have saved that lady by hacking off the wendigo's arm with an axe?

The only point where it is a bit more iffy is when facing humans, since some could argue that as a legitimate organization, you shouldn't apprehend humans with axes and katanas. That's just not socially acceptable. So maybe those deployments prevent you from bringing those weapons because of ethical reasons (ex.: only proper, stunning melee weapons like stun batons and tonfas are authorized against humans?)? But having your team of researchers work for a few days on axes, then katanas, then whatever that other Japanese sword is, then machetes, etc. just is jarring. Either they're making a legal case for using lethal weapons in those operations, which should unlock all of them at once, or they're doing something that no 20th century researcher should have to do: Discover how an axe works.

I understand that firearms are controlled in certain countries and that you need to go through the various bureaucratic channels to enable your agents to use them. But the credibility of the story told in XComFiles would indeed benefit from some streamlining of modern stuff. Discovering axes is not exciting, which imo research results should be. Even in an alternate bureaucratic world, it makes no sense so it hurts the suspension of disbelief by breaking the in universe "logic". Despite UFOs and aliens being less believable for us, they are one the those "basis of the world" that you accept when starting the story, so the "There's aliens and what you find unbelievable is researching axes?!" line really doesn't work either. If you make part of the story that the world in XComFiles is one where all dangerous objects are banned by governments (how do people split wood? You need an axe permit like we need a gun permit?), maybe.. but that seems rather unnecessary.

I would also personally prefer if the kind of stuff you can find in a hardware store (axe, machete) or order online (combat knife, katana, tonfa, all kinds of swords) were all in the pedia and shop from the beginning, or all unlocked together with a "Ethics and legality of using unusual weapons" project. The current situation detracts from the quality of the experience by taking you out of the story, thinking: "What? you really needed 5 days to tell me an axe is choppy?".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 25, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
All right, but what's the alternative? Adding all sorts of junk to the shop, from axes, wrenches, saws, hammers and power drills to cups filled with hot coffee and rabid hamsters, just because some X-Com agent might want to use it to cause bodily harm? :)
Right now the rule is that the only such improvised/melee weapons you can use are ones that were used against you. I could remove this limit and just put it in the store, but then it would look pretty weird, filled from day 1 with all sorts of tools and junk that mostly aren't even very good as weapons. Would that be preferable?
I swear I just don't know anything any more.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 26, 2016, 12:24:38 am
In my mind, yes, it'd be better to have random improvised weapons in the store from day 1 than the current "gotta research an axe to know what it does". Also they should be in the ufopaedia from day 1 too, of course.

XCom players research everything they get their hands on, because who know what the crazy modder decided to put the "axe" as a dependency for? So why risk it. For example:

There's a machete research project? I'm 99.9999999% sure my agents won't ever use a machete, but... I don't know if Solarius put the machete as a dependency for some kind of "uber machete to fight plant monsters" (along with say, a plant monster corpse?) research project, and I sure don't want to miss out on the potential "uber machete", so I research it. Of course, the immediate outcome is I get a ufopaedia article on machetes, they're crap, I roll my eyes at how silly it was to have to research it and I proceed to forget about machetes, safe in the knowledge that I researched it so if ever it was needed, it's done. Does it add anything to the game? no.. just some micro, the "Oooh research completed! Nice!", then "oh.. it's machetes, who cares?! I can't believe I had to waste research time on that..." which I'd say is actually detrimental to the experience as a whole (and probably why people comment on it).

I'd be very surprised if you ever had someone go "why do I know about axes at the beginning?! That makes no sense!".

About cluttering, that's a legitimate concern (and I remember complaints about that in Piratez). But the truth is, you've just delayed the cluttering but in a way that isn't making things much better, it's just cluttered later (once a player has researched all those cluttering items) instead of at the beginning since most player will research it all and researching doesn't feel good with the players. I can see three solutions for that:

1 - Remove the clutter from the mod altogether. But that's not great since it's good for enemies to have flavourful, and sometimes less powerful, items.
2 - Remove clutter by removing items that a player will never buy from the store. Have these items in the ufopaedia from the beginning so players know what the item does, and just add a mention that it is "unworthy of use by XCom" (but make sure that's true, unlike the hunting rifle that said it didn't measure up to other rifles even though when you get it, you have no other rifle).
3 - Gate the items behind some tech, so that the player isn't overwhelmed at the start. That can be "unorthodox fighting methods" as a day 1 research project and represents the agents pushing to get these items, or a "legal case for XCom excessive force in close quarters" which represents the staff fighting the bureaucracy so it accepts that agents will use axes/machetes/katanas in combat because we're fighting a threat that warrants it.

Given the bureaucracy angle you've got going already, I'd go for the legal case. Personally, I'd go for #2 but I know there will be players who want to fight zombies with axes and machetes, or want their Japanese agents to use katanas and then they'll go: "Why can't I buy machetes/axes/katanas?! Even a civilian can do that!!", So #3 seems like the better alternative. "Logistics" give you bigger teams in a van, "Personal protection" gives you kevlar vests and the "Unconventional Force" gives you weird items used as weapons. Now, not having immediate access to these makes sense within the story: You weren't allowed to by bureaucracy, which within the story world is established as heavy so it fits, but the staff pushed against the bureaucracy and now you can, much like every other project. Bonus: A starting player isn't overwhelmed by a million entries, they start with normal weapons and eventually get the unconventional one. They also don't get jarred by having to research modern terran tech.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 01:39:57 am
I like your approach, Arthanor. It solves the most important problems rather well. But I'm still wondering if all such items should be enabled straight away, or maybe there should be stages, like for example Improvised Weapons [Baseball Bat, Handle, Axe etc.], Advanced Improvised Weapons [Sledgehammer, Chainsaw etc.]. I'm just wondering if unlocking everything at once isn't too much.

Anyway, if we go down this path, should these weapons be in the Ufopaedia from day 1, or only after unlocking?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on November 26, 2016, 03:23:48 am
I Vote Rabid Hamsters BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY since by definition, its an unnecessary means!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 26, 2016, 07:32:59 am
Good questions.. I initially conceived of the ufopaedia being unlocked when the project was researched, but there isn't really much of a rationale for that. But the most overwhelming is in the ufopaedia, not the shop.. and I believe in the two being related (no point in reading about something you can't acquire, especially within the first month). So yeah, I'd go for ufopaedia being unlocked after the project on the rationale that until you've got the permission to use them, you don't need to know about them.

As for tiers of projects, you could have tier 1 "Unconventional Force" and tier 2 "Martial Arts Weapons" where tier 1 unlocks all the stuff you can get from a hardware store (axe/machete/hammer/chainsaw) and tier 2 unlocks the (presumably better?) proper weapons (katanas, wakisa.. something, tonfa). This way you'd get some kind of progression.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 26, 2016, 11:24:27 am
Well, maybe from the logic point it is unreasonable to put many things to research list, but it still opens some development choices. One can lock those items behind one research project like suggested, or maybe lock other research projects behind them, add additional research options including those items or their research. The sheer scope of project Solarius has started just suggests that not a bit of content will be superfluous and I see no valid reason to cut anything out at this point.

Also, I just encountered Envoy UFO filled with you-know-who and I'm wandering if it is an storyline opening fot other stages of the game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 12:11:19 pm
Thanks guys. So, I think I'll do just that - group tools together and martial weapons together, and unlock their Ufopaedia articles as they become available.
I'm sure people will cry "I found an axe and am using it, how come I don't know the stats of a stupid axe?!", but we can't have everything.

Also, I just encountered Envoy UFO filled with you-know-who and I'm wandering if it is an storyline opening fot other stages of the game?

Not really, more like a special, optional mission for hardcore players.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 26, 2016, 12:29:14 pm

Not really, more like a special, optional mission for hardcore players.

Hardcore it is indeed, consequently it is enjoyable :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 01:49:39 pm
Hardcore it is indeed, consequently it is enjoyable :)

How do you like the loot? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Nord on November 26, 2016, 01:58:03 pm
Autopsy, as promised. Beginning next one...

By the way, i noticed no specific loot after Envoy mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 03:26:52 pm
awesome job. I really dig your work... You're the first truly great graphic artist in the community since Robin!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 26, 2016, 05:08:18 pm
How do you like the loot? :)

Welp, I was not very surprised to encounter sonic weapon, but it turned so that every other alien had a unique weapon, so I used them for research and to really enjoy top-tier tech I will have to shoot down another envoy. And it will take some time prolly as it was only the second I've seen since the beginning of full scale invasion (the first was shot down over water).

Hm, I'm starting to have doubts about current weapon balance. Recently one of my bases was assaulted by ethereal battleship. I had some power armors and enough of personal armor suits for the rest of soldiers there, but no laser or plasma weapons. So a Blackops Minigun, Heavy Machine Gun, couple of Black Ops CAWSs, Arisaka 3000 were given out. Rest of the soliders got Groza assault rifles. And losing only one rookie the team literally tore the ethereal terror team apart including a cyberdisk.

I'm playing on normal difficulty, it's understandable that battles should be somewhat easier but I feel like I had more problems with cult bases than with alien squads.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 05:42:42 pm
Worry not, the aliens will get a buff. :) Nothing outrageous, but I agree they are a bit too weak now, with all the toys you have and your maxed out soldiers. Plus it would make sense if they were stronger.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: zetzet13 on November 26, 2016, 06:35:03 pm


How about taking Arthanor's suggestion of making primitive/improvised/savage weapons a fluffy research topic with text but leaving them out of the shop.
During the early stages those items are gathered in sufficient quantities to be used by curious players.

As it is now the cluttering issue is merely pushed to the research screen which is already chock full of your marvelous ideas.
By leaving those items out of the shop, it won't be completely filled with useless items at the end of the game. By then every squaddie is running around with a blaster launcher anyway.


That being said I truly adore your work ever since you took over the FMP and can't wait to see this bud blossom.
Do you take donations by the way?

I also love Nord's recent artwork. Especially because it is in the same style as the original.


Sorry that I can't contribute anything else right now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 07:01:05 pm

How about taking Arthanor's suggestion of making primitive/improvised/savage weapons a fluffy research topic with text but leaving them out of the shop.
During the early stages those items are gathered in sufficient quantities to be used by curious players.

As it is now the cluttering issue is merely pushed to the research screen which is already chock full of your marvelous ideas.
By leaving those items out of the shop, it won't be completely filled with useless items at the end of the game. By then every squaddie is running around with a blaster launcher anyway.

Yes, but I don't want to forbid the players from buying stuff that can realistically be bought... Damn, maybe I'll just make a poll and ask what people want? But no promises I'll listen to the voice of the people if I get another idea. :)

That being said I truly adore your work ever since you took over the FMP and can't wait to see this bud blossom.

Thanks! It matters a lot.

Do you take donations by the way?

Not officially yet, since I think it's too early, but if someone wants to help me fund modding, please use this Paypal account: (https://i.imgur.com/GSemP25.png)

I also love Nord's recent artwork. Especially because it is in the same style as the original.

Yeah, it's great!

Sorry that I can't contribute anything else right now.

No problem, every bit matters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dreamsicle on November 26, 2016, 08:10:01 pm
So I was able to beat the Red Dawn HQ mission by using lots of smoke grenades. I still had 4 die, but I finally finished it. Got some additional questions and feedback

1. How do I effectively take out Swarmids? Grenades work but I want to limit explosive use when in monster terror missions.

2. I'm not getting Church of Dagon Base attacks in my game which means I can't go for the HQ. I already researched Eldritch Language and I can't research any captured Dagon members. I'm only getting Cult Outpost or Activity from them. The actual invasion has started though and I think that might be why. I also took out the other 3 cults.

3. Speaking of I realized by February that my "role-playing" style by only operating agents from one base and only having at most 20 at any given time, until Promotion III was a bad idea as it took a while to get any landed UFO's for Alien Containment as many of the ones I could detect were out of Dragonfly range. It's mid-march and I was finally able to get a floater. Not a complaint or anything, just commenting on how badly I hampered myself.  :P Out of curiosity, how would you justify multiple bases of operation before military access in a narrative sense?

4. This might be because I put down Red Dawn before making the contact, but I am not able to buy any ammo for the light cannon even though I contacted the M.A.G.M.A Corp. Is my hypothesis right  or did something else happen?

I feel bad for not leaving a compliment but it's really hard to state all of my possible ones  :P so I'll say that I really loved the HQ tilesets and layouts along with the cult weapon variety.

Also regarding the "junk" research I like Arthanor's third option with regards to that. Keep up the good work! Can't wait to see what the next revision has in store.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2016, 10:51:27 pm
So I was able to beat the Red Dawn HQ mission by using lots of smoke grenades. I still had 4 die, but I finally finished it. Got some additional questions and feedback

Congratulations.

1. How do I effectively take out Swarmids? Grenades work but I want to limit explosive use when in monster terror missions.

You can also burn them with fire, it is very efficient against them. Otherwise you can try smoke or, if you're patient, plasma and chemicals.

2. I'm not getting Church of Dagon Base attacks in my game which means I can't go for the HQ. I already researched Eldritch Language and I can't research any captured Dagon members. I'm only getting Cult Outpost or Activity from them. The actual invasion has started though and I think that might be why. I also took out the other 3 cults.

It requires Cult of Dagon Operations, which must be gained from a Chosen (or Sorcerer, but you're unlikely to meet them).

3. Speaking of I realized by February that my "role-playing" style by only operating agents from one base and only having at most 20 at any given time, until Promotion III was a bad idea as it took a while to get any landed UFO's for Alien Containment as many of the ones I could detect were out of Dragonfly range. It's mid-march and I was finally able to get a floater. Not a complaint or anything, just commenting on how badly I hampered myself.  :P Out of curiosity, how would you justify multiple bases of operation before military access in a narrative sense?

x-Com is a UN organization after all, so it's not a big stretch to say they can establish a local branch almost anywhere. I like roleplayers and wouldn't want to make their life difficult, so if you have any suggestions, fire away.

4. This might be because I put down Red Dawn before making the contact, but I am not able to buy any ammo for the light cannon even though I contacted the M.A.G.M.A Corp. Is my hypothesis right  or did something else happen?

You must also be at Promotion II, or you won't get clearance for the Light Cannon.

I feel bad for not leaving a compliment but it's really hard to state all of my possible ones  :P so I'll say that I really loved the HQ tilesets and layouts along with the cult weapon variety.

Thank you! Most of them were made by other people anyway: EXALT HQ and Church of Dagon were mostly made by Dioxine, Black Lotus by Ryskeliini, and Red Dawn by Hobbes.

Also regarding the "junk" research I like Arthanor's third option with regards to that. Keep up the good work! Can't wait to see what the next revision has in store.

OK, thanks!

EDIT: I've had a talk with Dioxine regarding the simple weapons problem and he strongly supported the current system, his argument being that you get one thing at a time, which is most rewarding and fun. I'll need to make a decision here, but it's getting harder every goddamn day. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on November 26, 2016, 10:57:22 pm
@Juku
Do not subvert what I said. It makes me think bad of you.

As a word of advice, better make your changes a separate mod. Else you'll get fucked as Solar updates his files (not to even mention your changes will quickly become useless to anyone but yourself). It's a higher energy & time investment upfront, but saves a ton of trouble later. I made the same mistake as you did when tweaking the 40k mod.

But, as Dioxine noted, making a mod to the base mod is largely an execise in futility since I have so many changes I'd have to essentially maintain a base and a diff file for each ruleset, publish only the latter and it'd be outdated the moment you publish a new version.

So I basically said you should make your mod to a mod, not the opposite, as you claim. Since it will keep working even after updates (although not 100%), also there is a chance Solar might look into it to pull some content; modyfying master file is idiocy since nobody sane will try going through your changes, nothing is worth such time and work investment. Unless Solar wants to relinquish the position of the main developer to you, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on November 27, 2016, 02:54:40 am
You must also be at Promotion II, or you won't get clearance for the Light Cannon.

Back on page 43 you told me I needed Heavy Cannon research to get full cannon access.  I still haven't found any by October 1999, though I've gotten a few Assault cannons.  Are you sure Heavy cannons are on the MiB equipment list?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 27, 2016, 03:04:19 am
Back on page 43 you told me I needed Heavy Cannon research to get full cannon access.  I still haven't found any by October 1999, though I've gotten a few Assault cannons.  Are you sure Heavy cannons are on the MiB equipment list?

I checked and no, Heavy Cannons aren't currently used by anyone. Sorry, they were eaten by the Chaos Gods at some point. :P
I'll add them back soon, just doing some major overhaul of M.A.G.MA.-related items.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 27, 2016, 03:11:57 am
@Juku
Do not subvert what I said. It makes me think bad of you.

So I basically said you should make your mod to a mod, not the opposite, as you claim. Since it will keep working even after updates (although not 100%), also there is a chance Solar might look into it to pull some content; modyfying master file is idiocy since nobody sane will try going through your changes, nothing is worth such time and work investment. Unless Solar wants to relinquish the position of the main developer to you, but I don't think so.

I did not mean to misrepresent you, and apologize If it came across that way.

That having been said, I still fail to understand how your quote actually supports the position of making a 'mod to a mod' being superior in case the 'submod' is large enough.

Any update by Solarius will have to be manually merged anyway, due to how different the balancing is by now. Updating, say, 0.4.2 into what's currently available in the 'Idea Proving Grounds', you'd get an unholy mess even if my changes came in a 'submod' format. It won't be 'not 100%', getting 75% would be an achievement. You of all people should understand this.

And maintaining only 'minimal change' rulesets makes MY life hell for modding purposes, while not making Solarius' life much easier, and is of no benefit to anyone else except some hypothetical replacement of his, who I have no desire to become.

I see no better option than what I've proposed and implemented right now: Solarius and other interested parties can ask for specific changes they like, and can identify what they like by either ruleset diving (bad idea in general, which has essentially been your whole point as far as I can tell, but feasible for small things and Solarius has done some of it), reading the Ufopedia and playing quick battles (easiest, but most shallow), and trying a quick run of my version (sabotages playtesting for XCF, but If people have already gone through it once and want a somewhat different experience, why not?). When asked, I can provide a 'current' and/or 'backported' implementation of the changes.

If you have an actual idea how to improve the above, by all means, please elaborate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on November 27, 2016, 04:42:32 am
Is there a point to going into caves or is that branch still undeveloped?  So far all I've encountered is a few spiders and far too many chupacabras.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 27, 2016, 12:21:37 pm
Is there a point to going into caves or is that branch still undeveloped?  So far all I've encountered is a few spiders and far too many chupacabras.

Not much else yet, no. It'll be quite relevant later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on November 27, 2016, 01:22:41 pm
If you have an actual idea how to improve the above, by all means, please elaborate.

The biggest advantage of keeping your changes in a separate mod format is that you can omit all the data that you keep unchanged. You know that, right? If you change eg. weapon power, you only need to provide that data, all other data you can omit, and the game will override old damage with your damage while keeping all else. That way, anyone doing ruleset diving will instantly see what is new/changed compared to Solar's version. I assumed you know this, if you do, kudos, if not, I can elaborate further on mod-to-sub-mod structure.

This format has never failed me so far, and like I previously said, trying to change 40k mod your way (as a replacement) only ended in tears for me. There has to be order, and the master file should be by the main developer, even if it's inconvenient to a person like you.

If Solar changed his mod into a 'master mod' format, it would help immensely, of course, but even if not, this holds true as long as your mod to his mod is lower on the mod list.

As for updates, I won't lie to you, it will be hard to keep up. However, it's better to put some extra work than to be useless, IMO. However, Solar keeps detailed changelogs, and you can always ask him for help, him, or anyone.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on November 27, 2016, 01:26:26 pm
If you could keep your mods (and least the ruleset) in git, the changelog (and finding bugs) would be much easier too :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 27, 2016, 03:19:46 pm
I assumed you know this, if you do, kudos, if not, I can elaborate further on mod-to-sub-mod structure.

There has to be order, and the master file should be by the main developer, even if it's inconvenient to a person like you.

However, Solar keeps detailed changelogs, and you can always ask him for help, him, or anyone.

Sure, keeping only submod-specific changes sounds nice in theory. The issue is, what these changes are keeps constantly changing, a large chunk of which are automatically at odds with Solarius' (e.g. at least 75% of items.rul is now different from Solarius', so omitting the intersection is just an invitation to conflicts). And it's quite difficult to make large-scale changes when looking at a partial ruleset, hence my comment about having to maintain double rulesets.

Solarius does keep changelogs, but for my purposes, they're only useful as reminders. I doubt he's going to make changelogs a la 'gave Hybrid7, Hybrid11, Hybrid67,... Chempistols' or 'gave Sectopods, MiB Sectopods and both X-Com Sectopods thermal vision', and even if he did, it wouldn't help much more.

I guess the bottom line is, my changes are not an actual mod, and in all likelihood will not become one. You could view them as a playable 'modder's resource'.

Regarding Git, there are other issues that make using it non-attractive for me, but... how does it facilitate the generation of high-level, non-minutiae-filled changelogs? Or, for that matter, bug-finding (as opposed to bug-tracking)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on November 27, 2016, 09:15:40 pm
So you want to shut yourself in an ivory tower. Sure, it's your choice, to each their own :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 27, 2016, 09:22:00 pm
Not exactly what I planned to do today, but...

(https://i.imgur.com/fvaZRWR.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/EfUGVA7.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on November 27, 2016, 09:30:10 pm
(e.g. at least 75% of items.rul is now different from Solarius'

I haven't seen your mod, but if you're sharing only 25% of code with XFiles, you should start your own mod.

Regarding Git, there are other issues that make using it non-attractive for me, but... how does it facilitate the generation of high-level, non-minutiae-filled changelogs?

It doesn't.
You can write high-level changelog with minimum effort using just notepad (or your favourite text editor), like everyone else.
I thought you wanted complete changelog.

Or, for that matter, bug-finding (as opposed to bug-tracking)?

If you don't already know the answer to that question, I doubt I will be able to explain it well/simple enough.
Let's just say, development (of anything, incl. mods) with and without a VCS is like chopping wood with bare hands vs. using an axe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on November 27, 2016, 10:28:45 pm
Not exactly what I planned to do today, but...

(https://i.imgur.com/fvaZRWR.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/EfUGVA7.gif)


Another bug hunt...
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Meridian on November 27, 2016, 10:37:01 pm
This game is too buggy.
That really bugs me!
I'm just gonna bug off now...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 27, 2016, 11:10:48 pm
I LIKE BUGS.

(https://i.imgur.com/VwkvufP.jpg?1)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on November 27, 2016, 11:15:06 pm
Ok....
I'll be(e) going now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on November 28, 2016, 12:10:07 am
We really need that poison-cloud Chemogun now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 28, 2016, 12:15:14 am
We really need that poison-cloud Chemogun now.

I'm accepting graphics for this from now on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 28, 2016, 12:38:00 am
So you want to shut yourself in an ivory tower. Sure, it's your choice, to each their own :)

I think somebody had a very good reply to that.

Do not subvert what I said. It makes me think bad of you.

If I wanted to stay in my tower, I'd never have made an account here or tried sharing my work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on November 28, 2016, 01:51:55 am
I think somebody had a very good reply to that.

If I wanted to stay in my tower, I'd never have made an account here or tried sharing my work.

What a cute word manipulation. Did you really think so low on me as to suppose such low-level semantic magic will work? I was stating my opinion on your actions, not rewording what you said. You didn't say it, you actually denied it, but, I THINK, you weren't realistic.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough? Then I guess you want it said more bluntly? No problem. Capitalizing on other person's work and then locking yourself out by refusing to do it in any civilized standard, just because you don't feel like it, means your work is useless. Advertising yourself while doing that basically amounts to leeching - you take, but not contribute. While I took your approach with 40k mod, I was genuinely trying to help, just did it ass backwards and ended up with most of my work being a waste; my fault entirelly for being stupid. The difference is I learned something, while you refuse to learn since whining is easier. Man up. The world doesn't revolve around you, or anyone else for that matter, if you feel under-appreciated. And nobody will appreciate useless work, just because it was hard.

If you don't want to conform to any sort of team work organization, and be an absolute master, start your own mod, but that requires even more work to be appreciated, especially creative work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on November 28, 2016, 02:28:25 am
Question: How do I use the Gym to boost my soldiers? I have tried everything so far, but I have no idea how to. I see no interface for it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Juku121 on November 28, 2016, 02:46:18 am
@Dioxine: I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, since being the main developer of the biggest mod (which I wholeheartedly commend you on) has clearly gone to your head. And I'm not basing this off of just my personal interaction with you. Anybody who knows what a 'Mecron' is should recognize the species and avoid it.

@others: WRT 'leeching', does anyone whose work has been used in my changes (including Solarius, Dioxine, Arthanor, Hobbes, hellrazor, CanadianBeaver and many others) want me to take it down? Just say the word then.

Anybody who has not lost their composure yet, what does Dioxine mean by 'Civilized standards' when he first says 'nobody sane will go through your changes' (true for practical purposes), and when I put forth detailed high-level changelogs and invite people to look at the changes via Ufopedia, quick battles and test runs, berates me for not dumping the same 'unreadable' changes as a submod?

I'll remind you, the whole issue between me and Solarius has been the volume of conflicting changes, which no amount of pruning or reformatting is going to solve.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 28, 2016, 03:15:56 am
Question: How do I use the Gym to boost my soldiers? I have tried everything so far, but I have no idea how to. I see no interface for it.

Under Agents, there should be a button labelled Training.

Or you can just right-click a Gym.

EDIT:
Some new faces incoming!

(https://i.imgur.com/CunQCcl.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on November 28, 2016, 05:06:03 am
Under Agents, there should be a button labelled Training.

Or you can just right-click a Gym.

EDIT:
Some new faces incoming!

(https://i.imgur.com/CunQCcl.gif)

Neither work. What's up? Using the link in this thread.

Also, is the mod supposed to be played with the following settings and mods:

1. Aliens pick up weapons.
2. Alien Bleeding
3. Alternate Movement Methods
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 28, 2016, 05:38:04 am
Is the gym affected by the "psi-training anytime" option? I can't remember. I have no issue using the methods described by Solarius :/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on November 28, 2016, 06:52:29 am
Is the gym affected by the "psi-training anytime" option? I can't remember.

Just took a look, and yup, Gym is working now! Thanks, Arthanor!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Drasnighta on November 28, 2016, 07:38:46 am
Yep, I didn't think about it, started playing with the Option off, and only got the Gym Training Screen at End-Of-Month.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on November 29, 2016, 08:36:24 am
The Data Slates say they need to be decrypted in the workshop, but I don't see an option for that.  Is an there a 'Alien Encryption' research of some sort?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on November 29, 2016, 12:53:19 pm
The Data Slates say they need to be decrypted in the workshop, but I don't see an option for that.  Is an there a 'Alien Encryption' research of some sort?

They are treated as manafuacture, so you must "produce" one decrypted from one regular.





Also on the other hand, I've reached the full ivasion part, and have some thoughts to share:


First of all I'd suggest making Interceptors easier to obtain. Before i've managed to get one, I had to (ahem. spoiler alert):

1. Find landed UFO, which is hard as hell.
2. Kill an alien and bisect it.
3. Research Alien Biology.
4. Research Alien Containement.
5. Construct Alien Containement.
6. Find another landed UFO.
7. Capture one alive and interrogate it.
8. Get promotion.
9. Research Migs (two times).
10. Curse them, because they couldn't catch anything before runing out of fuel.
11. Research Interceptors.
12. Wait 13 days to produce one.

So after all this time I've lost UK and Australia and got two Alien Base missions. I'd suggest giving any means to counteract full scale invasion before obtaining them. And maybe reduce production time (after all they all made from human tech, so I like to think they are rather assembled than made from scratch)


Second of all I don't know what to do with money right now. Before the invasion i had a 100 millions (and even without Wałęsa!) So I just built myself few bases. And then I sold all redundant items...



Don't know if this is possible, but could you make that we revert to original rank names after third promotion? For immersion reason i've changed it in ruleset, since XCOM is now military organization.


Also small note on one bug (sorry for wrong topic): EXALT is still giving me outpost even after their termination.


Still big fan of the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on November 29, 2016, 02:23:33 pm
I'm aware they're a workshop project.  I assume it's the same idea as data disks in piratez.  But when I go to my manufacture screen, I don't see any project related to data slates.  I was asking if there was another research I had to complete before I could start decrypting.

Did you terminate EXALT after getting interceptors?  I recall that after you beat one of the human factions you get a promotion that also unlocks MiGs (and then interceptors).  Also missions are generated on a monthly basis, so outposts won't stop until the end of the month or so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: kazek on November 29, 2016, 03:27:13 pm
I'm aware they're a workshop project.  I assume it's the same idea as data disks in piratez.  But when I go to my manufacture screen, I don't see any project related to data slates.  I was asking if there was another research I had to complete before I could start decrypting.

Did you terminate EXALT after getting interceptors?  I recall that after you beat one of the human factions you get a promotion that also unlocks MiGs (and then interceptors).  Also missions are generated on a monthly basis, so outposts won't stop until the end of the month or so.


Accordin to ruleset you need
Alien Codes and Alien Electronics
This allows you to research Slate Encryption.

Yes, but to get promotion you need also Alien Origins, which you can get only by interrogating live alien. Which you can get only from UFO. And i'm over year after beating EXALT. All other cults have stopped spawning.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 29, 2016, 03:54:57 pm
The Data Slates say they need to be decrypted in the workshop, but I don't see an option for that.  Is an there a 'Alien Encryption' research of some sort?

Yes, you need to crack the aliens' programming code first, like Kazek explained.

First of all I'd suggest making Interceptors easier to obtain.

OK, I'll give it some thought. I understand your reasons, and I do't think it would be bad for game balance, it's just that it would be weird if you had access to such strictly military tech before you are allowed to use ordinary grenades.

So after all this time I've lost UK and Australia and got two Alien Base missions. I'd suggest giving any means to counteract full scale invasion before obtaining them. And maybe reduce production time (after all they all made from human tech, so I like to think they are rather assembled than made from scratch)

Half a month is still pretty fast for a prototype. :P

Second of all I don't know what to do with money right now. Before the invasion i had a 100 millions (and even without Wałęsa!) So I just built myself few bases. And then I sold all redundant items...

Lol :)

I admit this part is completely unbalanced now. Well I've reduced the funds recently, it will only work in new games.

Don't know if this is possible, but could you make that we revert to original rank names after third promotion? For immersion reason i've changed it in ruleset, since XCOM is now military organization.

Sadly no, not possible.

Also small note on one bug (sorry for wrong topic): EXALT is still giving me outpost even after their termination.

Wow, that's curious... OK, I'll check.

Still big fan of the mod.

Still big fan of feedback. :)

Yes, but to get promotion you need also Alien Origins, which you can get only by interrogating live alien. Which you can get only from UFO. And i'm over year after beating EXALT. All other cults have stopped spawning.

There are some other ways to get aliens, but they're not prominent enough at the moment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 29, 2016, 04:54:11 pm
Don't some cults have alien pets? And there's wild reapers too. You don't need an alien containment for those so you definitely can get interceptors before the invasion.

In my game, by December 1998 (so technically before the invasion, even though ethereals already roam the earth), I already was working on interceptors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 29, 2016, 07:54:59 pm

In my game, by December 1998 (so technically before the invasion, even though ethereals already roam the earth), I already was working on interceptors.

Indeed, it is possible to encounter alien creatures as Strange Life Forms relatively early (I met silacoid on North Pole even before I had Dragonfly i think) and they give you a chance to research critical tech. And in my opinion Interceptor is quite a powerful tool and handing out it too early would really break balance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 29, 2016, 08:02:54 pm
That's true, I remember silacoids too now (man what a pain to kill with piddly pistols... luckily there's dynamite!).

As for the interceptor, I like the idea of the mod with XCom potentially being able to get all the tools they have in vanilla by January 1999. Then the story of XCom Files becomes "how XCom started from weird cases to the organization that would stand up to the alien invasion". Following UFOs to try to catch them landed is a fun self imposed challenge, but it's not really a viable situation against an invasion. That's something that should be done for the crop circles missions. After Promotion III and January 1999, it's the war now and it's not a war if one of the sides can't fight. That's the whole driving force behind the early years: "You have to get ready for the war" and that's why I liked it so much: I had a clear objective I needed to accomplish before January 1999. As such, if you go fast you should be ready, and if you fail, well you get the MiG and Dragonfly to try to survive until you catch up and get the Interceptor and Skyranger.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on November 29, 2016, 08:53:26 pm

As for the interceptor, I like the idea of the mod with XCom potentially being able to get all the tools they have in vanilla by January 1999.

Completly agree on this point! There would be no point at all to make a Commander start figting an Invasion without proper tools and forbid him from access to them. It's just seemed to me that while certain ufos still visit earth even before invasion you can rush radar, detect a UFO very early and if capturing it successfully gain a period of relatively safe time for research. Basically that is what happened to me and I had some easy time to deal with cults using apex tech, and later when initial ethereal wave(which was fixed by Solarius later) hit me I had some means to bust them and get even more tech.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 29, 2016, 09:03:33 pm
My first UFO catch was in December 1998, but I can't comment on what kind of OP tech I'd have gained since that was the last I played (didn't fancy facing those ethereals again).

I'll have to look in the tech tree to see how broken it can be.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dreamsicle on November 29, 2016, 09:35:50 pm
Don't some cults have alien pets? And there's wild reapers too. You don't need an alien containment for those so you definitely can get interceptors before the invasion.

In my game, by December 1998 (so technically before the invasion, even though ethereals already roam the earth), I already was working on interceptors.

I thought wild reapers are a bug? I remember seeing that as such in the bugs thread. Additionally based on the research ruleset
Reapers don't unlock Alien Biology
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 29, 2016, 10:18:10 pm
Indeed, Reapers aren't aliens... They are technically cybermutants, even if it sounds confusing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 29, 2016, 11:36:22 pm
It think it was the fact that live wild reapers required a special containment facility instead of just animal pens that was the bug (At least that's what I reported). Wild reapers (and silacoids) are ok I think.

I think this is a dissonance created by Solarius saying I should "give myself" a live reaper anyhow since it was not intended that I couldn't keep it (same happened with the Church's pet). Then he fixed it (reapers can be kept live in animal pens) but

He also removed them (and silacoids) from alien origins which is what is required for promotion 3. This means you have to catch one a many other kinds of aliens, none of which come in the early game.

Honestly, I'm quite happy I benefited from this, as I think reapers, silacoids, the little frog-dog from the church, deep ones and hybrids all should unlock Alien Origins (Especially since Reptoids do even though they are properly evolved Earthlings).

I very much think that Promotions 3, and all the stuff that you start with in vanilla, should be unlockable before you have to shoot down your first UFO and kill, let alone interrogate, your first sectoid, to keep the storyline. If the previous means of acquiring Alien Origins are taken out, I'd suggest an early mission type where you can encounter aliens, like a crash site or something, or the UFO that spawns the crop circle sites actually lands first and if you're lucky you can actually catch them while they're down.

Actually, it would fit extremely well in this mod to have a Roswell themed arc. Let's say you break into an early MIB base which still has sectoid corpses from the historic crash site (Maybe the US always denied having anything, because they didn't want to say they almost had it, then it got taken over by the MiB?). After all, every conspiracy theory is true in XComFiles! Getting the corpse (2nd last mission) would enable Alien Containment and finishing that arc gets you a "captive sectoid" (or you face a "sectoid collaborator" on the last mission if aliens and MIB are working together like in the movies) for Alien Origins. Then you can bring the existence of actual aliens to the world (leaders), thus getting your last promotion so you can get skyrangers and interceptors before the invasion begins, like in vanilla.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 30, 2016, 01:07:45 am
Arthanor: Wild Reaper gave me "Alien Orgins" and "Alien Lifeforms" techs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 30, 2016, 01:10:55 am
Looking in the ruleset, it looks like it's been changed to not give Alien Origins anymore. At least not directly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on November 30, 2016, 01:14:07 am
Looking in the ruleset, it looks like it's been changed to not give Alien Origins anymore. At least not directly.

Tested on v0.4.2 few minutes ago got those two techs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on November 30, 2016, 01:27:42 am
Interesting. It must be the vestigial "unlocks: STR_ALIEN_ORIGINS" from the vanilla ruleset, since that wasn't replaced by Solar's definition of the reaper project. So the reaper unlocks it even though it doesn't appear in the list of the Alien Origins project's dependencies.

Not sure that's working as intended, but quick! Everyone capture a live reaper to get early promotions before Solar fixes it! :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 30, 2016, 10:09:34 am
Oh, you guys. :P

I'd better get to work...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on December 01, 2016, 02:57:36 am
I don't have an option to harvest synthmuscles despite researching mutons, muton corpses, and synthmuscles.  What else do I need?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 01, 2016, 03:19:20 am
I don't have an option to harvest synthmuscles despite researching mutons, muton corpses, and synthmuscles.  What else do I need?

You need a tech that doesn't exist in this version :P

For the extraction, you need STR_SYNTHETIC_MUSCLES and the actual tech that you get from research is STR_SYNTHMUSCLES. You can go change it in manufacture_XCOMFILES.rul if you want, or wait for Solar to release the next version.

hum.. reaper no longer an alien, but can harvest synthmuscle.. which is best..  ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on December 01, 2016, 07:25:30 pm
In my mind, yes, it'd be better to have random improvised weapons in the store from day 1 than the current "gotta research an axe to know what it does". Also they should be in the ufopaedia from day 1 too, of course.

XCom players research everything they get their hands on, because who know what the crazy modder decided to put the "axe" as a dependency for? So why risk it. For example:

There's a machete research project? I'm 99.9999999% sure my agents won't ever use a machete, but... I don't know if Solarius put the machete as a dependency for some kind of "uber machete to fight plant monsters" (along with say, a plant monster corpse?) research project, and I sure don't want to miss out on the potential "uber machete", so I research it. Of course, the immediate outcome is I get a ufopaedia article on machetes, they're crap, I roll my eyes at how silly it was to have to research it and I proceed to forget about machetes, safe in the knowledge that I researched it so if ever it was needed, it's done. Does it add anything to the game? no.. just some micro, the "Oooh research completed! Nice!", then "oh.. it's machetes, who cares?! I can't believe I had to waste research time on that..." which I'd say is actually detrimental to the experience as a whole (and probably why people comment on it).

I'd be very surprised if you ever had someone go "why do I know about axes at the beginning?! That makes no sense!".

About cluttering, that's a legitimate concern (and I remember complaints about that in Piratez). But the truth is, you've just delayed the cluttering but in a way that isn't making things much better, it's just cluttered later (once a player has researched all those cluttering items) instead of at the beginning since most player will research it all and researching doesn't feel good with the players. I can see three solutions for that:

1 - Remove the clutter from the mod altogether. But that's not great since it's good for enemies to have flavourful, and sometimes less powerful, items.
2 - Remove clutter by removing items that a player will never buy from the store. Have these items in the ufopaedia from the beginning so players know what the item does, and just add a mention that it is "unworthy of use by XCom" (but make sure that's true, unlike the hunting rifle that said it didn't measure up to other rifles even though when you get it, you have no other rifle).
3 - Gate the items behind some tech, so that the player isn't overwhelmed at the start. That can be "unorthodox fighting methods" as a day 1 research project and represents the agents pushing to get these items, or a "legal case for XCom excessive force in close quarters" which represents the staff fighting the bureaucracy so it accepts that agents will use axes/machetes/katanas in combat because we're fighting a threat that warrants it.

Given the bureaucracy angle you've got going already, I'd go for the legal case. Personally, I'd go for #2 but I know there will be players who want to fight zombies with axes and machetes, or want their Japanese agents to use katanas and then they'll go: "Why can't I buy machetes/axes/katanas?! Even a civilian can do that!!", So #3 seems like the better alternative. "Logistics" give you bigger teams in a van, "Personal protection" gives you kevlar vests and the "Unconventional Force" gives you weird items used as weapons. Now, not having immediate access to these makes sense within the story: You weren't allowed to by bureaucracy, which within the story world is established as heavy so it fits, but the staff pushed against the bureaucracy and now you can, much like every other project. Bonus: A starting player isn't overwhelmed by a million entries, they start with normal weapons and eventually get the unconventional one. They also don't get jarred by having to research modern terran tech.

On top of this there are Contracts techs and weapon knowledge giving cult followers. Dont like Contracts tech but really enjoy interrogation and suprices they give (Lotus follower giving Katana knowledge or Red Dawn follower - cure for cancer).
Durning one of my first missions one of  enemies dropped AK-47. All my action were focused to unlock it as fast as possible. Reasearch completed and what I see "Contract needed"... So I ended with wasted time on reasearch,no access to AK-47 other than few ammo clips form that specific mission and only WITH UFOpedia entry.
If you see some weapons too fancy shield them behind those nasty Contracts but unlock UFOpedia from the beginning to inform player that they are not so easy to get.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 01, 2016, 07:49:23 pm
On top of this there are Contracts techs and weapon knowledge giving cult followers. Dont like Contracts tech but really enjoy interrogation and suprices they give (Lotus follower giving Katana knowledge or Red Dawn follower - cure for cancer).

Yes, I like them too! Most weapons are gated behind interrogations after all.

All my action were focused to unlock it as fast as possible. Reasearch completed and what I see "Contract needed"... So I ended with wasted time on reasearch,no access to AK-47 other than few ammo clips form that specific mission and only WITH UFOpedia entry.

You make it sound like it was some titanic endeavour, while in reality this is a 5 points research. I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but it's not like the game was particularly mean here.

If you see some weapons too fancy shield them behind those nasty Contracts but unlock UFOpedia from the beginning to inform player that they are not so easy to get.

Well, you see, there are many different sources one can get the weapons from:


Also, the weapon can be either usable or non-usable before it's researched. And also its Ufopaedia article may become accessible earlier/later or at the same time.

So, the problem is that there is no good solution:


So, none of these are good solutions, especially in combination with the Ufopaedia and buying problems I mentioned before. I'm trying to patch these inconsistencies with wild uses of lookup flag, or requiresBuy, of making several goddamn research projects for the same goddamn rifle etc., but the truth is that the engine is doesn't have the capacity for this kind of shenanigans. For example, you can't block an element from a getOneFree list with research, you can't disable one reszearch with another (so that you wouldn't have to/be able to research the same weapon twice from different sources, etc.). To be honest I'm getting fed up with this issue, as it keep me busy with no good results and I'd like to get on with other stuff finally. But I know that if I simplify it, I'll immediately get a fuckton of complaints that something is "illogical".
I think I'll just take a break until I decide what to do, and do some more stuff for Piratez or something. :/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 01, 2016, 08:57:39 pm
Sorry this is proving to be such a pain, Solar. It's indeed a difficult thing to achieve in an elegant way that's also satisfactory to the players.

Well, once you switch to OXCE+ v3.5, you'll have access to the flag that lets you determine if items are destroyed when researched, no? That would enable:

- All "normal human tech" in ufopaedia at the beginning. Never need to be researched, can be used as soon as acquired. Buying weapon and ammo depends on contacts or promotions.
- All "advanced human tech" like light cannons, blackops stuff, etc. is hidden at the beginning. Can be researched but item is kept. Use requires research for computer assisted ones, not for simpler "press the trigger and it shoots" ones. Buying weapon and ammo depends on the weapon research + proper contact + proper promotion. So you need to know the weapon, where to buy it, and get the permission from your superiors to use them.
- Alien weapons need to be researched (maybe with previous projects gating that research since you can't understand plasma rifles before knowing what Elerium is, or maybe you don't care what the clip is made of and just want to shoot it, so it's fine if you know nothing about elerium). Research destroys the weapon but enables use. Later research (ex.: Plasma weapons assembly?) enable you to build them.

This way you never have the "lol why did I have to research AK-47 or axes?!" since they are never up for research. Contacts and promotions become immediately valuable because they make new weapons (and their ufopaedia) available. For advanced weapons it follows a sensible arc: Find fancy unknown rifle, look at it and discover the manufacturer, track the manufacturer (contact) to be able to buy it from them (and since they're shady exclusive people, you need to say: "I want a gun like this one that I know you make", not just "Yo man, I want some nifty shooty stuff" because then they'd just kick you out/hang up on you) and also you need to have clearance to use the weapon. Finally alien weapons you need to break apart and study to be able to reproduce them, and even then that first weapon you took apart remains in parts for reference during assembly of copies (hence the first research project destroys the item).

Although I very much value your contributions to Piratez because Piratez is an awesome mod. You created something new and awesome with this mod and I definitely encourage you to keep at it.

I haven't looked more into the dogs issue because.. well they work on my end and I gave you all I had so I don't understand that just reusing my stuff it doesn't work for you. So I don't know what to do to help you more with that. (and the rank/picture thing.. I think was/is an exe problem?)

I sort of abandoned the "advanced ammo" idea because, frankly, it made little difference to have a bit of stun damage. Either the lethal damage is enough, then the target dies any ways, or the combined damage isn't so the target is still standing up but the 2nd shot will likely kill them. I'd have to crank up the stun % higher than I feel comfortable with. But more importantly, I'm not sure people are even interested in that kind of behavior (it also makes normal things used for stunning less interesting except for VIP captures, which I like but others may not) and I don't want to spend too much time working on something that nobody is interested in except me. If I do that, I might as well work on the XAE.

All that to say, if you're interested, I don't really have a mod project at the moment, so I could make you a "how to handle guns in XCF" proposal that works along the lines of the above.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on December 01, 2016, 10:55:26 pm
I think I'll just take a break until I decide what to do, and do some more stuff for Piratez or something. :/

Future generations will be gratful if you continue work on this project  ;) There are other thing you can implement so theres no harm if you leave weapon aspect for awhile.
I apologize If my feedback is too harsh. Just want to help you polish this awensome mod.

Last words about weapons...
There are so many of them that there is a slim chance that somebody will manage to reasearch them and use them before the Invasion. When Inasions starts many of them are quite useless and becomes dead game feature. So basicly player have only 2 in-game years to have some fun with ome weapons and still have to manage other important techs.

Question about Assasins - Is there any item which allows to see them? So far, trying to locate Assasin is a dead sentence for my party members.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 02, 2016, 12:13:46 am
Assassins are... killers?

They're my #1 most challenging unit in the early game, by far. There's a few things you can do, like give your scouts the armour that reduces melee damage since if I remember well throwing knives and ninja stars are melee types. I also thing you can get motion scanners by the time you struggle with them? That will tell you from ~10 tiles away, which I think is far enough to avoid being shot by the hidden knives of death.

But as far as seeing, as in finding from further away, no, I don't think there is a way. Solar, any chance we can get some thermal vision goggles for the agents? That ought to work on them!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2016, 12:14:58 am
OK, thanks for the support, guys!

@Arthanor: Interesting. Just to complete your proposed model, when do we get to buy axes?

@Ragshak: There's no straightforward method for dealing with Assassins, it's the whole point of them. :) At least not in early game (yeah, thermal goggles will come later). If you suspect one's nearby, you should set a trap or something encircle him; at worst try to sacrifice only one person to draw them out. As Naruto taught us, ninja wars are brutal. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 02, 2016, 12:44:18 am
OK, thanks for the support, guys!
You deserve it man, as I said, you've made something new and awesome and it's the unfortunate side-effect that it makes people care and comment, and it's more natural to say: "fix this" and it's also shorter otherwise "I like this, and that, and this too, oh, and that too! and..." just takes too long. It's odd, but I think as a creator you have to take pride in how much comment you get, regardless of what it is, because with the exception of "This sucks!" which is pretty rare, it all means that somebody cares about what you did.

Quote
@Arthanor: Interesting. Just to complete your proposed model, when do we get to buy axes?

When you've completed "Contacts: Hardware store", which is actually called "Improvised Weapons" in game because "Contacts: Hardware store" sounds stupid. That research could give the logistics officer talking about how she had to hire lawyers to make a case to the bureaucracy that using improvised weapons to kill monsters was ok and not animal cruelty, and similarly that axing a terrorist was no worse than shooting them. Now that it's gone through, the quartermaster can go to the hardware store or military surplus and buy axes/hammers/machetes/combat knives/etc. for the agents to bring on missions.

The above, plus interrogation of any Black Lotus cultist (or maybe not the kimono guys but only the ninja looking guys?), enables the "Contacts: Katana Ninjas", actually called "Historic Weapons" to sound more sensible, which unlocks katanas, tonfas, throwing knives, maybe a broadsword for the HEMA enthusiast, etc. This one could be a report from the quartermaster, saying that he had an argument with the logistics officer about how it was no worse to slash a monster with a Katana than axing one with an axe, after an agent questioned his selection of "weapons" and laughed at him for running a hardware store instead of a proper armory. Upon verification, the legal precedent should hold and he can now provide you with proper (old-style) weapons instead of having to use tools.

All these weapons would available from day 1 in the UFOPaedia and can be used when picked up, but require the above research to be bought because otherwise XCom can't sanction their acquisition. Any case of looting and using these weapons before is considered "personal initiative" and since the Commander (player) is a no non-sense guy, he supports his agents doing what they need to do (especially since it's him who tells them what to do any ways) so it's a rare case of "turning a blind eye" but there can be no trace of XCom buying the weapon.

If anyone says: "LOL Why can't I buy an axe from day 1?!?! This is stooopid1!1!", the reason is the bureaucracy, already established as major in the story (ie it's the same as not being able to rent a van for 4 agents from day 1, etc.).

I believe this should take care of a decent part of it?

@Ragshak: There's no straightforward method for dealing with Assassins, it's the whole point of them. :) At least not in early game (yeah, thermal goggles will come later). If you suspect one's nearby, you should set a trap or something encircle him; at worst try to sacrifice only one person to draw them out. As Naruto taught us, ninja wars are brutal. :P

It would be nice if units on fire stopped being camouflaged. Then throwing an incendiary bomb could reveal enemies. I mean, if you're burning alive in a puddle of napalm, you're not going to manage staying still and hidden, are you? But only for enemies that are on fire (ie burning and losing health), just stepping in fire shouldn't do it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Slaughter on December 02, 2016, 01:22:24 am
Some 2 cents: One option for weapons would be that you CAN buy some stuff early on, but its Black Market stuff - same gun, but the price is a lot higher. Imagine paying 50k to smuggle in a AK47! Once you get the contacts, that buying option goes out and you can simply buy it normal for a sane price.

I think I once heard a assault rifle in the brazilian black market is like 10k reais, back then that was like 5k dollars.

It could even be said that you're not just buying the gun, but also smuggling it through airport customs or in the spot before a mission (when you get out of the plane and get on the car/van). Maybe it takes longer to arrive too, smuggling ain't easy, even if you have authorities on your side (assuming they're really on your side)

So, you can choose to pay through the noose, or you can wait and get it decently and cheaply later on.

Its a pity we don't have X-COM Apoc-style market with possibility of limited goods for sale.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2016, 01:32:30 am
So, to sum up:


Is this what you are proposing?

As for destroyItem, yes, I did it last week. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 02, 2016, 02:00:22 am
Yeah, pretty much.

I'm of no preference regarding UFOPaedia availability of the oriental weapons. They are modernized, but it's not that hard to find a HEMA or Kendo place that uses them, which presumably the agents that are inclined to use such weapons would already be part of. So should you know about them or not? It doesn't matter, as long as you don't have to research katanas, then tonfas, then etc. but get to buy them (and their article, if you chose to go that way) all at once when the "Oriental Weapons" or "Historic Weapons" project is unlocked.

Can you list multiple techs for "requiresBuy"? That would be the simplest. AK-47 "requiresBuy" Promotions II and Contacts: Arms Dealer, done. Or I guess you can hack it with a 0 cost "BuyBasicRifles" project that depends on those two other techs and is listed as the requirement for the AK47 and other basic guns.

Just looking at the ruleset, I noticed you have a cost (small, but still) for the "BuyAK47" project. Is that necessary? I'd just streamline it and say: If you know the dude that sells the guns (Contacts), and you've got the clearance to buy the guns (Promotions), then you can buy guns, no more research necessary. What are they researching any ways?

Although it's fun to unlock alien or hi-tech fancy weapons one by one because they're special, it's isn't really for basic modern guns. Getting rid of this cost would allow you to unify the projects to clean up the research by just listing the necessary contact and promotion in the "requiresBuy" if possible, or at worst having a general use "BuyBasicRifles", then "BuyBetterRifles" that enable a bunch at a time. Then BlackOps guns either have the "requiresBuy" with Contacts: BlackOps and the specific gun, or a cost 0 "BlackOpsXBuy" project that depend on both.

But yeah, I think you got it by now and I'm just rambling...  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2016, 02:09:42 am
Yeah, pretty much.

Thanks.

I'm of no preference regarding UFOPaedia availability of the oriental weapons. They are modernized, but it's not that hard to find a HEMA or Kendo place that uses them, which presumably the agents that are inclined to use such weapons would already be part of. So should you know about them or not? It doesn't matter, as long as you don't have to research katanas, then tonfas, then etc. but get to buy them (and their article, if you chose to go that way) all at once when the "Oriental Weapons" or "Historic Weapons" project is unlocked.

OK, then I think I'll keep them hidden at first, if only to reduce the number of starting articles.

Can you list multiple techs for "requiresBuy"? That would be the simplest. AK-47 "requiresBuy" Promotions II and Contacts: Arms Dealer, done. Or I guess you can hack it with a 0 cost "BuyBasicRifles" project that depends on those two other techs and is listed as the requirement for the AK47 and other basic guns.

Yes, you can have multiple techs for requiresBuy, or just make a new cost 0 research with these prerequisites and tie buying to this. (This is how I do it, for clarity reasons.) But in case of AK-47 and other "cult" weapons there's the additional condition of knowing arms' dealers and that particular cult; it doesn't make much difference though.

Just looking at the ruleset, I noticed you have a cost (small, but still) for the "BuyAK47" project. Is that necessary? I'd just streamline it and say: If you know the dude that sells the guns (Contacts), and you've got the clearance to buy the guns (Promotions), then you can buy guns, no more research necessary. What are they researching any ways?

This cost is to appease the Great Untolerable Ones, or else the research engine turns to ash and chaos, and things don't unlock correctly.

Although it's fun to unlock alien or hi-tech fancy weapons one by one because they're special, it's isn't really for basic modern guns. Getting rid of this cost would allow you to unify the projects to clean up the research by just listing the necessary contact and promotion in the "requiresBuy" if possible, or at worst having a general use "BuyBasicRifles", then "BuyBetterRifles" that enable a bunch at a time. Then BlackOps guns either have the "requiresBuy" with Contacts: BlackOps and the specific gun, or a cost 0 "BlackOpsXBuy" project that depend on both.

There are many approaches to this, so we can't have everyone happy... So I'll try making myself happy at least. :P And then think how to improve the system.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 02, 2016, 02:58:59 am
Sounds good! Best of luck with it :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on December 02, 2016, 10:55:12 am
Which aircraft can use the plasma beam?  I just built some but my Tormentor and Firestorm can't use it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on December 02, 2016, 07:35:00 pm
Which aircraft can use the plasma beam?  I just built some but my Tormentor and Firestorm can't use it.

Currently the only craft I have which can use energy weapons is Lightning. The others require more alien electronics which is excruciatingly hard to acquire.

--- posts merged, please don't double-post - Solarius Scorch ---

Well, personally I do not see any need to apply strict logics to X-Com, but if slight overhaul and simplification of research tree would open way to more new and interesting research I'm totally for it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on December 03, 2016, 06:08:19 pm
On the topic of when and how should weapons like axes and AK47s be available.

1. Let's not delude ourselves. All these weapons there is such heated discussion about can be characterized as 'Useless Shit' (USH).
What are purposes of USH? To arm the enemies with it. Why it should be available to the player? Because we don't treat player like a monkey. Also USH serves a very handy purpose of making interrogations a more unpredictable business.

2. The only value of USH to the player is in unlocking it for unlocking's sake. The tactical value of such weapons is near zero, and if it were otherwise, the XCOM would (and does) have a better equivalent available at a proper point of developement.

3. The player would use USH only in 2 situations: he has a fancy, or it is some out-of-depth USH, like an AK grabbed before Promotion I.
- a fancy can only occur if the player has Just Unlocked and immediately has Access.

So, what is Arthanor's proposition in the light of 1,2,3?
A proposition to spam Ufopedia and possibly the store with heaps of USH available from day 1, or through some asinine project en masse, thus making it truly useless - it will cease to be interrogation fodder, it will cease to be a collectible, and no sane player will fancy to use it, since fancies are one thing, systematically and uselessly hampering yourself is a very different thing.
What will stay is a ton of USH cluttering the Pedia and Store from day one (or hidden behind bulk researches that will forever clutter the research que, so the player will finally research them, but not to collect a collectible, but to finally get rid of that shit, which is a very different feeling, again).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 03, 2016, 07:45:06 pm
Yeah.. that works in Piratez where the gals are a bunch of wackos escaped from some weird experiment or picked up from the deepest primitive slums, but it makes little sense for any kind of police or para-military organization to need to interrogate people to learn about AK-47 or machetes or axes, or to need to look at a physical one to know what it does. Players keep complaining about it because it is jarring and not fun. Maybe making USH useful is nice/fun for you, but keeping it truly useless and non-obtrusive is much better for the player.

This is also very setting dependent. One can get excited in Piratez when the gals pick up an AK-47 and "figure it out" because they're making progress from the cavegals you start with by rediscovering all the weapons of history in a post-apocalyptic world (especially since you have written the description in such a way that they're a reward in themselves for how enjoyable they are to read, regardless of weapon utility). In XCom or XCom files? Nope, it just makes you feel like you're in charge of the most retarded, crippled organization 20th century Earth could possibly put together to investigate/fight aliens. XCom is about 20th century people discovering new alien stuff, not rediscovering 20th century weapons that are currently in use and not at all forgotten (and where description have to be much more sanitized given the institutional/military setting unlike in Piratez, so there's much less potential for cool descriptions being the actual reward). As such, your use #2 doesn't work in XCF, or maybe it does for you, but it is unpleasant to many players, enough that it is probably the most recurring complain about the mod (regardless of if the mention is of either AK-47, axes, hammers, etc. They're all USH).

Use #1 and #3 are very true and it is nice for the setting that rebels and cults are armed with AK-47, machetes and axes. I certainly wouldn't exchange that for everyone being armed with a "Rifle". It's also nice that, should you fancy having a Japanese katana warrior, a Russian AK-47 dude or something, you can. But that's it for the value of USH. As such, the mechanic I am proposing gets rid of #2 because it doesn't fit while to enable #1 and #3 in as non-obtrusive a manner as possible.

or hidden behind bulk researches that will forever clutter the research que, so the player will finally research them, but not to collect a collectible, but to finally get rid of that shit, which is a very different feeling, again.

Yeah, discovering boring stuff is boring. I totally agree. If you think discovering 20 at a time still isn't exciting, how is discovering them one by one more exciting? I can tell you as a player of XCF, and others have said it as well: It is even more boring to discover the 20th useless item than it is the first one. It's even more "Oh! Come on!" and eye rolling worthy. So let's do away with the "achievement"-style accomplishment of "discovering" what an AK-47 is in the 20th century, discover all the USH at once and then move on to discovering actually interesting stuff.

You want to clutter interrogations so people don't get all the important bits too quickly? Have some text about whatever cult so the cultists can ramble on about that after their interrogation. The "Notable Cultists" results are an awesome example. You didn't get anything weapon-wise, but you learn a little bit about stuff, and the "Interpol notified" line makes you feel useful even though it's just a couple points because it feels like you are helping fighting crime/the cults. I'll take that over machetes/katanas/etc. any time! Then it feels like you're learning and progressing in your investigation of the cult, while enjoying something creative in the awesome setting that Solar created. I'd love to know even more about all the crazy cults and their backstory and every bit of into is enjoyable because it's like reading a page of a novel, or from 40k codex before they got all crazy. Learning about an intelligently designed, creative and new setting is cool. Learning about AK-47 and axes when playing a 20th century organization just plain isn't.

Furthermore, in XCF, most of the USH research comes from the actual items being researched, not from interrogations, so neither the "cluttering the research list" argument nor the "delaying interrogations" argument really work. I'm suggesting a few projects to unlock all of the USH at once. The current state is that every weapon you bring back from a mission shows up in the research list as a thing to be researched and stays there cluttering the research project list until you finally give in and dedicated a scientist to research machetes and another one for axes so you don't have to see them in the list anymore (and just in case not researching the machete will prevent you from inventing the "Machete of plant slaughtering" that is needed to win against the Treemen, or something like that, because who knows what Solarius came up with and you better cover everything. Or you peak at the techtree and realize it doesn't lead anywhere, but still do it because after 3 years of in game time, it's about time you got rid of that stupid project). Good that you bring this cluttering up, because that's another argument in favour of my fix (1-2, maybe 3-4 projects if you were to do the same for general use pistols and rifles, instead of one per item cluttering the research list).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 03, 2016, 09:59:54 pm
*grabs popcorn*
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on December 03, 2016, 10:28:30 pm
Actually I use some USH like Katanas - that feel when you slash your enemy! :P That sword is quite potent for killing Swarmids (...those red mosiquitos).

I would really like to give a try and grab some avaible weapons (Luger/Tommy/Double Shotgun/Revolver) BUT there is no time early game to waste on such garbage reasearch and their stats compared to other weapons are also garbage. Garbage reasearch for items with garbage stats :P I don't want to research those items. I want to grab them from dead enemy and be able to JUST check item stats in UFOpedia.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 03, 2016, 10:30:08 pm
Yes, it would be best if the Ufopedia entry got unlocked right after you acquire the item. But it's not possible, so let's move on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on December 03, 2016, 10:44:25 pm
Yes, it would be best if the Ufopedia entry got unlocked right after you acquire the item. But it's not possible, so let's move on.

Can you set reasearch time needed for USH weapons to 1 hour while using only 1 Scientist?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 03, 2016, 10:53:28 pm
Can you set reasearch time needed for USH weapons to 1 hour while using only 1 Scientist?

No, it has to be whole day.
Actually, you can even have a cost 0, and the research will be done at midnight, even if you don't put any scientists there - but you still need to start the project manually.

EDIT:
Here's proof I'm actually doing something:

CURSE OF THE DARK LAGOON
(https://i.imgur.com/340eqdh.png)

Soon in theatres!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dioxine on December 04, 2016, 03:18:23 am
It's no longer a collectible if you discover it all in bulk, regardless if you found the item or not. So my idea boils down to making USH collectibles, thus a prize in itself. Bulk research on the other hand holds no interest to me as a player, since I simply wouldn't research it - convenience makes it boring, I didn't win it by myself so I don't feel anything about it.

Also don't say 'it works in Piratez' since that has nothing to do. In Piratez, you need to research all USH to get neccesary wide knowledge of existing stuff before moving on. In XCF, it makes no sense and research is more about procurement and writing down a standarized manual.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Dreamsicle on December 04, 2016, 04:20:48 am
Hmm, from my perspective I just feel that many of the USH in XCF feels too "mundane" to be a collectible. If it was stuff like High Frequency Blades, Swordchucks (if you're open to it Solarius) WA2000s, G11s or even an AN-94, I would agree with that sentiment, but AK-47's and axes feel too ho-hum especially in the XCF setting. Of course the cults were armed with that, other players might feel it unrealistic that they get access to such weaponry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Arthanor on December 04, 2016, 07:16:37 pm
Exactly, sometimes the USH is fun to use (ex.: katana) and it makes sense for enemies to use it, but it doesn't work as collectible in XCF because the items are too mundane for the setting and if barely any player is excited by the collection while others are annoyed by it, why make it so prominent (spam the new project every time you get a new item). And it is not optional: you need it to check to ensure it is indeed worse (or you ruleset dig which is bad form) and in case other projects might need the AK-47 or axe as a requirement.

Maybe you like collections just for achieving them and I respect that. Some people just are collectors (and I like collecting some stuff too, just not any kind of stuff that I could possibly collect). However, I think this unlikely occurrence of satisfying a rare collector player despite the setting is not worth the common occurence of people being jarred by having to research axes.

That is why I made the suggestion I made: Removing displeasure for the many is more important than the (mild at best, you're presumably not playing xcom to collect random digital USH and the real pleasure is in playing and killing aliebs) pleasure of the few.

Hell, as I offered before, I'm even up for writing the research stuff for my proposal into a mod to XCF, so IF people want to, they can research axes and do the collection of USH whole as an option. Or the opposite, if Solar implements my suggestion, I'm willing to write a mod to XCF  that would return the collection aspect for those who want it.

Normally I would agree it isn't as nice to buy a collection whole as it is to build it up yourself. But this is like a 2nd set of tools. You already have a good set (the weapons that aren't USH) and you need a 2nd, crappier and cheaper set for the cabin. I don't get excited by going to the hardware store and picking up a bottom of the line hammer one day, then the cheap saw another, etc even though I'm "building a set". I'll buy it all at once and be done with it because none of those items are special or exciting (and I'm not broke enough to be excited enough by buying cheap either. In this case we're swimming in money atm in XCF).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Ragshak on December 04, 2016, 07:17:35 pm
After Promotion II I really enjoy this mod. The main reason for this are: Dynamite, Smoke&Incendiary Granades and acess to Laboratory, Dragonfly and Workshop. Strike teams with Magnums* and backpacks full of dynamite gives smooth gameplay. More Scientists than 5 provided by H.Q. gives better feel of progression. More agents on the battlefield... hell, yes!

BUT before that ... It was quite painfull to go with another Stragne Monster mission and hunt all those mobs with no firepower and 4 squad members. Or figth against whole army of cult followers with only 4 agents.

Something should be done with early game - too much Stragne Monster mission and Cult activites, too less tools to deal with enemies, slow progresion.
Maybe add Molotov Coctail or some other area of effect item. Increase H.Q.Lab from 5 to 10. Add 5 working space to H.Q. so player could extract on the run all those plasma bloods and don't pile up bodies and waste storage in the name of future use. Allows to park several Vans at one location (Its kinda silly to go for outpost with only one Van and 4 agents).

*Prefered weapon for first few years of the game. Is Magnum OP?

Will probably take longer break from X Files and will return when new version shows up. This mod gave me so much fun and it was very refreshing experience. Thank you Solarius. Now I will try those naked mutants girls from XPiratez :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on December 04, 2016, 08:22:59 pm
Oh, my! Solarius we never doubt you and your work (except cases when advanced rocket weaponry gets inaccessible)!

It seems that the discussion gets to the point where we find out that the current research system just works well enough for current purposes and changing it now would just mean a lot of unnecessary work. Not putting any pressure to you but in my opinion more new content is just much better than changing the existing.  All this research related stuff sounds more like fine tuning which would take place at the finishing stages of game development.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 05, 2016, 06:40:05 pm
I think I;ll introduce the new system in a small sample, which is M.A.G.M.A. weaponry. Basically, upon contact you'll receive a catalogue of their flag products, but you won't be able to buy them all yet. It's just a few items, so shouldn't be a problem either way.

In the meantime, I made the first Syndicate building:

(https://i.imgur.com/WOkbi6b.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: mrbiasha on December 05, 2016, 07:30:34 pm
Syndicate is serious business - even a toilet has a secure door! Very nice looking, it will be an outpost?

And about weaponry: you make the contact research and you get a number of entries, but buying them will require additional research?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 05, 2016, 09:06:05 pm
Syndicate is serious business - even a toilet has a secure door! Very nice looking, it will be an outpost?

Sort of. It'll be a specific mission to stole some specific data, though I'll probably reuse it for other stuff too, since it's pretty poitnless to spend time on a map you'll only see once per campaign.

And about weaponry: you make the contact research and you get a number of entries, but buying them will require additional research?

With M.A.G.M.A., yes. Or more precisely, you'll do some optional missions for them, and they'll reward you with new designs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: dorsidwarf on December 12, 2016, 08:43:04 pm
So, what's the deal with Chupacabras? They used to die almost guaranteed in a single shot, yet now the damn things are STILL running from all the way across the screen, killing my agents instantly turn 2, despite 360-degree automatic covering fire, except now it doesnt even take multiple of the things.
Like, there's no fear of them here, no nothing, just line up my best soldiers and watch the least fun enemy I've seen in the game knock them over.
If a civvie mission is chupacabras we just evac instantly because even if somehow we were to beat the creatures which can move like 20 tiles, shrug off auto fire, and make enough attacks on an armored agent to instakill him, we lose points for each of the braindead citizens they murder offscreen. Its tactically more sound to just evac immediately because a rating of 0 is better than what you're going to get with 30 dead civvies.

Is there some tactic to fighting these, or are they just the bullshit "Now your best team are dead they had no chance whatsoever and no play by you could have changed this in the slightest except for running away turn 1 before you ever saw a foe" enemy they seem to be.

edit: I just lost two sergeants on the same turn to the same one, it spawned behind a tree in such a way that nobody could see it, nobody even got a reaction shot because all the TU had been spent mowing down the ones who were in murder range who COULD be seen.

edit edit: save scummed to set up a killzone to get that turn 2 murder one, he walked straight across two agents fields of view who had near-full TU, neither fired a shot, and casually executed my sniper
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 12, 2016, 11:27:40 pm
What can I say? They are nasty, fight them only if you are prepared well enough. But I assure you that their stats were left untouched since I made them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: dorsidwarf on December 13, 2016, 12:16:52 am
Oh, I turned off the TFD damage thing, so my weapons were capable of doing no damage.

But you don't usually know you'll be facing them turn 1 - they almost universally start out of sight except in the open wilds maps. And then because they know where you are they swarm your guys and they're in melee t2 onwards, where they shred through armor like tissue. As the first or second enemy you'll ever encounter. 


:(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 13, 2016, 09:13:10 pm
Oh, I turned off the TFD damage thing, so my weapons were capable of doing no damage.

As it's supposed to be! :)

But you don't usually know you'll be facing them turn 1 - they almost universally start out of sight except in the open wilds maps. And then because they know where you are they swarm your guys and they're in melee t2 onwards, where they shred through armor like tissue. As the first or second enemy you'll ever encounter.

Yes, well, at least they don't appear in big numbers any more... But yes, you can still get slaughtered. Cars and vans are cheap to replace though, same with starting items and agents, so next time you'll know better.

I thought many times if chupacabras could maybe use a nerf, but the truth is I like them as they are: deadly but killable.

In other news, new faces incoming!

(https://i.imgur.com/adVgkts.gif)

I think I should make a release soon or something.

EDIT: I'm also struggling with a new armour, still not really happy with it... Help would be appreciated, I can provide .psd. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/gSwoM7p.gif)

(Arms and legs were taken from XOps' work.)

EDIT: Finished this new armour:

(https://i.imgur.com/B2c35Ju.gif)

It's basically an advanced version of Personal Armour. A bit less resistant to plasma, but overall much stronger (and heavier). And it's totally cybernetic!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: dorsidwarf on December 16, 2016, 01:05:32 pm
I love how the new armor looks, Solarius!


Also, I seem to be stuck in a research hole at the moment. I'm fighting (with immense losses) aliens and MiB murder forces with their tanks, I have a huge stockpile of alien and laser weapons but am unable to research them, or even buy basic explosives. My only option for explosives is scavenged from cult bases and proximity grenades, and theres basically no research possible. Did I somehow miss a tech item?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 16, 2016, 06:59:57 pm
I love how the new armor looks, Solarius!

Thanks!

Also, I seem to be stuck in a research hole at the moment. I'm fighting (with immense losses) aliens and MiB murder forces with their tanks, I have a huge stockpile of alien and laser weapons but am unable to research them, or even buy basic explosives. My only option for explosives is scavenged from cult bases and proximity grenades, and theres basically no research possible. Did I somehow miss a tech item?

0.5 should solve most of your problems. I just want to playtest it a little more. Plus new content appears all the time... Like this thingy here:

(https://i.imgur.com/tF3QCvS.gif)

Cuteranger!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: arrakis69ct on December 17, 2016, 11:57:01 pm
Wooow nice skyranger

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: D3LTA WAV3 on December 19, 2016, 10:44:19 pm
Are you ever gonna make a smaller hanger or a garage for cars like the public van and car? It seems really overkill to require 4 blocks of space in my base for a vehicle that isn't actually there or is much much smaller than the actual hanger.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 19, 2016, 10:49:53 pm
Are you ever gonna make a smaller hanger or a garage for cars like the public van and car? It seems really overkill to require 4 blocks of space in my base for a vehicle that isn't actually there or is much much smaller than the actual hanger.

I won't, because 1) the code doesn't allow that, and it's not important enough for me to bug people to code it for me, and 2) I've heard many times how awesome storing a car in a hangar is and that space is good. So, no. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: D3LTA WAV3 on December 19, 2016, 10:52:06 pm
Okay, sorry. Also, I can't find any underwater missions in the Mission Generator(Click new battle at the main menu) but I see a ton of clues that hint at a merge with Terror from the Deep(Oh my god that's so awesome if you actually merged the two into one game.). Are there underwater missions(Oh please say yes) or is that a bug? Also the Durathread Factory mission briefing is missing too. Sorry if that was already reported.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 19, 2016, 11:04:04 pm
Yes, there are underwater missions... Not the entire TFTD plot, because it's a couple decades too early for T'Leth to even be fully active, but I assure you there are things in the water...!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: D3LTA WAV3 on December 19, 2016, 11:18:04 pm
Yes, there are underwater missions... Not the entire TFTD plot, because it's a couple decades too early for T'Leth to even be fully active, but I assure you there are things in the water...!
Holy ****, what year do the underwater missions start?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 19, 2016, 11:26:45 pm
Holy ****, what year do the underwater missions start?

When you research them. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: D3LTA WAV3 on December 20, 2016, 12:08:18 am
Well I knew it was a research option. I just wanted to know when I'll probably reach it I guess. Like give me a random guess what year I'll be researching it in?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 20, 2016, 09:10:11 pm
Well I knew it was a research option. I just wanted to know when I'll probably reach it I guess. Like give me a random guess what year I'll be researching it in?

I can't remember exactly... I'd guess a second year, maybe third.

Anyway! Version 0.5 is here!

- Updated the mod to OXCE+ version 3.5.
- Started the M.A.G.M.A./Syndicate arc.
- Added M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission.
- Added Syndicate Lab mission.
- Added Osiron Stakeout mission.
- Added Deep Ones Rituals mission.
- Added Skyraider.
- Added Giant Beetle.
- Added Blackops Macro SMG (bigob by Bongwater Bandit).
- Added PM-63 Rak SMG.
- Added Billhook.
- Added Knife.
- Added Heavy Stingray Launcher.
- Added Cyber Armour (based on XOps' sprites).
- Added new agent nationalities.
- Added 8 new faces.
- Added some new backgrounds for alerts and briefings.
- Added burning indicator (code by Meridian, sprite by Captain Corkscrew).
- Added an option to demote soldiers (by Meridian).
- Added two Flashlights to the starting equipment.
- Added some fluff articles on aliens.
- Buffed some aliens.
- Decreased base funding by two thirds.
- Grenades are available earlier.
- Added another version of the Cafe (for the Hybrid Agent mission).
- New Ufopaedia pictures for Zombie, Fat Zombie and Zombie Trooper, including autopsies (by Nord).
- Fixed wrong inventory picture on MiB Stormtrooper.
- Fixed some missing strings and Ufopaedia entries.
- Fixed bugged Desert terrain.
- Fixed Cattle Mutilation nodes.
- Fixed some armours being available where they shouldn't.
- Fixed dog description.
- Fixed Synthmuscles extraction.
- Fixed a crash on Hybrid Storage Facility.
- Fixed a problem with Plasma Defences.
- Fixed unbuyable Light Cannon ammo.
- Fixed Janissary weapon.

As you can see, there's a whole lots of stuff, but not much in the way of tying things up - new arcs are introduced rather than old get closed. But it's OK, we'll get there.

WARNING: Delete your old version before you install this one. Old saves should work just fine, but just in case, don't try updating in the middle of a battle.

Get the new version from: https://www.mediafire.com/file/eq5h1lky5twmdor/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.5.zip
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Meridian on December 20, 2016, 09:37:08 pm
Congratz... but careful with bumping version numbers so "rapidly" or you'll soon reach 0.9, 0.9.9 or even 0.9.9z.

Or -- which would make me a happy panda -- you could break openxcom.org forum tabu and actually just go to 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, etc.
After all, we have unlimited number of numbers, no need to stick with the boring zero the whole life.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 20, 2016, 09:40:45 pm
Congratz... but careful with bumping version numbers so "rapidly" or you'll soon reach 0.9, 0.9.9 or even 0.9.9z.

Or -- which would make me a happy panda -- you could break openxcom.org forum tabu and actually just go to 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, etc.
After all, we have unlimited number of numbers, no need to stick with the boring zero the whole life.

Well, the idea is that at 1.0 I will have all the minimum already implemented. Which means all the stuff that was planned from the beginning, with no glaring holes, loose ends, etc. It will be a "finished" product.

And after that, we can expend it further, with new ideas and more details. Than we'll go beyond 100%, and beyond 1.0.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Slaughter on December 20, 2016, 11:39:46 pm
I'm running a LP right now, early game - should I update and continue the game?

Also, inb4 Solarius adopts Firefox's version numbering scheme. X-COM Files version 100 in two years!

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: mrbiasha on December 21, 2016, 12:09:05 am
Welp, this is it! Long awaited major update is here and I can start a new game, maybe even hunt some bugs! The new art is nice and I'm looking forward to test tweaks which were made to early game, new missions and new enemies!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 21, 2016, 01:15:29 am
I'm running a LP right now, early game - should I update and continue the game?

Wait, you're doing an LP of XCF?! Links, please!

And sure, you'd better update... Some nasty bugs were fixed here.

And thanks for the nice word, guys! Hopefully you'll have fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: arrakis69ct on December 21, 2016, 03:05:54 am
Starting the trans to spanish.

I see the billhook not have the ufopaedia entry

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 21, 2016, 04:13:40 am
Starting the trans to spanish.

Good!

I see the billhook not have the ufopaedia entry

But it does...

Code: [Select]
ufopaedia:
  - id: STR_BILLHOOK
    requires:
      - STR_BILLHOOK
    type_id: 4
    section: STR_WEAPONS_AND_EQUIPMENT
    text: STR_BILLHOOK_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 1806


extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_BILLHOOK: "Billhook"
      STR_BILLHOOK_UFOPEDIA: "This kitchen tool is quite infamous.{NEWLINE}Skill: MELEE/2 + 50{NEWLINE}POWER Bonus: STRENGTH*0.3 + BRAVERY*0.3{NEWLINE}Special: Extra Pain (10)"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: kazek on December 21, 2016, 08:34:14 am
Anothet version? Damn exams won't allow me  to test it properly for now. But soon...

- Added PM-63 Rak SMG.
Glad to see some love for Łucznik.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: arrakis69ct on December 21, 2016, 09:46:20 am
Good!

But it does...

Code: [Select]
ufopaedia:
  - id: STR_BILLHOOK
    requires:
      - STR_BILLHOOK
    type_id: 4
    section: STR_WEAPONS_AND_EQUIPMENT
    text: STR_BILLHOOK_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 1806


extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_BILLHOOK: "Billhook"
      STR_BILLHOOK_UFOPEDIA: "This kitchen tool is quite infamous.{NEWLINE}Skill: MELEE/2 + 50{NEWLINE}POWER Bonus: STRENGTH*0.3 + BRAVERY*0.3{NEWLINE}Special: Extra Pain (10)"
I dont see in a New Game. Is a starting weapon buyable. I test later

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Nord on December 21, 2016, 01:30:34 pm
Oh, great. So, i think late-game better be restarted to see all new stuff. Ok...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Slaughter on December 23, 2016, 05:33:01 am
Wait, you're doing an LP of XCF?! Links, please!

And sure, you'd better update... Some nasty bugs were fixed here.

And thanks for the nice word, guys! Hopefully you'll have fun.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lets-play-the-x-com-files-0-4-2-alpha-blind.112132/

(bear in mind its the RPGCodex - its not like the rest of the internet at all - its one of the few free corners of the internet these days, so do keep in mind. Just a warning for anyone who takes a look there)

I need to stop being lazy and update it - both the LP and the mod.

No prob!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Nord on December 23, 2016, 10:37:46 am
I beginned a new game, and want to ask again: why do you need mudranger? Someone even used it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 23, 2016, 05:25:19 pm
I beginned a new game, and want to ask again: why do you need mudranger? Someone even used it?

It's tricky, but doable. I managed to make some good use of the Mudranger, Dioxine did too; but you need to really push it to make it happen. It essentially req
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 23, 2016, 05:31:31 pm
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lets-play-the-x-com-files-0-4-2-alpha-blind.112132/

OK, I absolutely love it. I mean of course I'd be interested in the first ever playthrough of this mod, but it's also so entertaining in itself! I was literally lolling all the time, it kept me awake until 7 am. I especially love your comments - keep at them.

(bear in mind its the RPGCodex - its not like the rest of the internet at all - its one of the few free corners of the internet these days, so do keep in mind. Just a warning for anyone who takes a look there)

At first glance it looks like a badass community I would love to belong to. So I registered, if only to keep an eye on your thread.

I beginned a new game, and want to ask again: why do you need mudranger? Someone even used it?

It's tricky, but doable. I managed to make some good use of the Mudranger, Dioxine did too; but you need to really push it to make it happen. It essentially requires building a dedicated base close to the estimated action site, and therefore is quite involved, but it may pay off.

If it was a commercial game, I probably wouldn't keep the Mudranger in it. But it's not, so I've decided to keep it, for people who are crazy/determined/crazy prepared enough to use it.

Also, in the next version the Mudranger will be upgradeable to be transported with a dedicated plane, which extends its range considerably. (Requires Military Envoy.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5 alpha: Corporate Affairs
Post by: arrakis69ct on December 23, 2016, 09:28:20 pm
And why not a bus tactical swat XD

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Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 25, 2016, 11:11:22 pm
And why not a bus tactical swat XD

Because it does poorly in a forest. :P

EDIT: Version 0.5.1 is released! It's kinda soon after the last one, but I found a lot of things to fix (mainly Ufopaedia crashes) and somehow made two new missions, so here it is.

- Added Osiron Alloy Ammo Trade mission.
- Added Chryssalid Village mission.
- Added MiB Psi Ops.
- Added Airborne Mudranger.
- Added buckshot ammo (regular and alloy) to Heavy Cannon and Auto Cannon.
- Added Syndicate personnel descriptions and pictures.
- Rewrote MiB mission scripts.
- Changed the surrender mode, because nobody ever surrendered. (We'll see if it didn't make the game too easy.)
- Fixed some Ufopaedia crashes.
- Some language and Ufopaedia styling fixes.

WARNING: This time, continuing from an old save is a bit more involved. You need to open an old save in a text editor and remove these lines:
Code: [Select]
        STR_MIB_TERROR: XXWhere XX is some number.

EDIT: Make it 0.5.1b; I screwed up the new ammo types. :/ New version uploading now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Slaughter on December 27, 2016, 09:58:26 am
Whoa, and I just updated today!

Gonna re-update further.

In spirit of honor in my current LP update (not yet posted, but already uploaded the images) I gave myself a 2/3 funding cut (more exactly a 66,6% cut). I suspected you had not balanced the funding yet. Should check the LP for a little update later.

Quote
OK, I absolutely love it. I mean of course I'd be interested in the first ever playthrough of this mod, but it's also so entertaining in itself! I was literally lolling all the time, it kept me awake until 7 am. I especially love your comments - keep at them.

Really? Thanks!

Quote
At first glance it looks like a badass community I would love to belong to. So I registered, if only to keep an eye on your thread.

yeah RPGCodex is a fantastic place, but be wary: It is edgy as hell, zero filtering and Shitposting is a way of life there. There are no safe spaces. Nevertheless, you will read many a insightful thing. I think RPGCodex is sort of a mix between normal forums + chans + NMA (when it was good) + BIS forums with a spice of Stormfront in it. I consider it the best internet forum ever.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 28, 2016, 06:22:38 am
So, I'm working hard on the next release... No groundbreaking changes yet, but I decided to make more civilians for various biomes. Here's some preview:

(https://i.imgur.com/9SKPvX8.png)

And X-Com no longer has exclusive rights to shoot aliens:

(https://i.imgur.com/PPgoHjf.png)

And do not fear alien terrors, for the police is here with its pistols:

(https://i.imgur.com/ToRxEmy.png)

F-f-f-f-f-freestyler!

(https://i.imgur.com/cV3oBuV.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: mrbiasha on December 28, 2016, 07:13:21 pm
Outstanding looks! Keep up the good work! To my shame still have not found enough time to make significant progress on new version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: khade on December 29, 2016, 06:36:25 am
Hi. I know you're probably sick of people talking about the USH stuff and research each individually vs unlock all through once research, but while reading the conversation, I had an idea that might be useful.

If you can add a get one free to the items, you could have your scientists do some forensics, get a break in an unsolved mystery involving that weapon or tool, or at least get some interesting and/or odd lore related to it and its former owner. 

So you get get the info on the weapon and some random creepy information on what it has been used for.  Alternately some clearly deranged asides from your less than sane researchers, memos that aren't supposed to either get to the commander or beyond him, depending on how much of a sense of humor they think you have.

I can't tell if my post is making any sense anymore, I think I've said the same thing twice or even three times, so I'll leave it like this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 30, 2016, 06:24:51 pm
Hi. I know you're probably sick of people talking about the USH stuff and research each individually vs unlock all through once research, but while reading the conversation, I had an idea that might be useful.

If you can add a get one free to the items, you could have your scientists do some forensics, get a break in an unsolved mystery involving that weapon or tool, or at least get some interesting and/or odd lore related to it and its former owner. (...)

You mean just some flavour info you could get from weapons? Yes, I think it should be possible with enough bending over... But I'm not ready for such writing all this fluff right now. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: khade on December 30, 2016, 10:07:36 pm
You could farm it out  :)  I'm not great at that sort of thing, but I know we have lots of clever writers who might be willing to assist.  Might not be a viable path, but you never know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 31, 2016, 05:31:28 pm
You could farm it out  :)  I'm not great at that sort of thing, but I know we have lots of clever writers who might be willing to assist.  Might not be a viable path, but you never know.

I'm always on a lookout for clever writers and other clever modders to help out. :) If you or anyone has something, please make a thread about it with some actual resources and I'll probably integrate it, with credits and everything, if it is good enough. And even if I happen to reject it, it can always be a mod to XCF.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: mrbiasha on December 31, 2016, 08:21:19 pm
Well, I think there are some people who would be ready to contribute to development... But it's kinda hard to think out something really relevant from scratch. Maybe you will consider the idea of creating a thread for you own requests, what you would like to see or may need in future but won't do yourself right now? Not sure if it will pay out but it could help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 31, 2016, 09:21:52 pm
Well, I think there are some people who would be ready to contribute to development... But it's kinda hard to think out something really relevant from scratch. Maybe you will consider the idea of creating a thread for you own requests, what you would like to see or may need in future but won't do yourself right now? Not sure if it will pay out but it could help.

I've been thinking about this, but it's not easy to assign tasks to people who are unidentified. :) But you're right, I should to something like that.

EDIT:

And I think I'm done with new civilians for now...

(https://i.imgur.com/KOmvSqf.png)

Guess their gender. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Slaughter on December 31, 2016, 11:31:08 pm
I actually have a huge idea file for X-COM Files, but I'm only gonna send it to Solar when I consider it ready enough.

Quote
but it's not easy to assign tasks to people who are unidentified.

And that's how the Ancient Conspiracy was undone
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: HelmetHair on January 01, 2017, 02:21:59 pm
Any plans for a prachute drop mission yet?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 01, 2017, 04:28:28 pm
Any plans for a prachute drop mission yet?

I entertained such thoughts, but it would require some new code to spawn your troops - not sure how difficult - and I think it's not that important for this particular mod. But if such mechanics existed, I'd probably use it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Spess Mahren on January 02, 2017, 03:33:58 am
I know x-com files more or less includes FMP, but I'm wondering if I should turn on improved heavy lasers/tanks or if the FMP portions of the mod already cover that. Also wanted to ask if you can do anything about melee enemies just loitering about on the battlescape turning the fights into zero risk missions because they always refuse to engage unless you put your dudes way to close to them at the end of your turn. There are exceptions of course, chupacabra's for example at least partially engage you forcing you to abort a few turns in or right at start if they come in sufficient numbers.
One more thing, how is shotgun to hit calculated? If it says 80% to hit with the reticle over the enemy in question, is that the chance for at least 1 pellet to hit or is it the chance for every pellet? Seems weird to have extremely high to hit chances or over 100% hit chance but most of the pellets still miss and I have noticed this a lot to the point where I think It isn't just subjectivity and bad luck on my part.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 02, 2017, 02:48:56 pm
I know x-com files more or less includes FMP, but I'm wondering if I should turn on improved heavy lasers/tanks or if the FMP portions of the mod already cover that.

Also wanted to ask if you can do anything about melee enemies just loitering about on the battlescape turning the fights into zero risk missions because they always refuse to engage unless you put your dudes way to close to them at the end of your turn. There are exceptions of course, chupacabra's for example at least partially engage you forcing you to abort a few turns in or right at start if they come in sufficient numbers.

I can't, because vanilla AI doesn't really allow this. But it's an important problem, and I believe we will have code for this at some point.

One more thing, how is shotgun to hit calculated? If it says 80% to hit with the reticle over the enemy in question, is that the chance for at least 1 pellet to hit or is it the chance for every pellet? Seems weird to have extremely high to hit chances or over 100% hit chance but most of the pellets still miss and I have noticed this a lot to the point where I think It isn't just subjectivity and bad luck on my part.

See this thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4834.0.html) for this kind of info.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Spess Mahren on January 04, 2017, 11:20:50 am
Is there a way to tell when a group of soldiers finishes a round of training and how much they improved? I don't know when a soldier actually gets a stat increase from training and I don't know how long to keep them training or figure out how much they have benefited from the training.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: yrizoud on January 04, 2017, 01:01:47 pm
If you're using "training anytime" option, improvement happens every day at midnight. If you hire a soldier, immeditately put him in training and watch his stats 3 days later, you should already see some stats have started increasing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Slaughter on January 06, 2017, 06:27:37 am
Gym is actually too powerful right now, I think that a month or two and your soldiers have above 60 accuracy and 40 ST, not to mention a lot of other good stats. No way those gains are natural, reminds me of a fanfic I once read where its revealed early on that all X-COM soldiers choose to take all sorts of enhancement drug cocktails.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: yrizoud on January 06, 2017, 12:01:04 pm
I don't find the gym gains unrealistic, because IMO the facility also materializes the specific training that XCOM can provide :
- practice together, in order to act quicker as a team
- study the threats XCOM has encountered so far, in order to be more confident when facing a strange lifeform or cultist maniac
- learn to use alien guns or XCOM-invented technology (though this shouldn't matter in early game)
From a newly hired ex-cop to someone who has received 1 month of training (but no mission yet), a +25% increase of general efficiency sounds reasonable to me.
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 06, 2017, 12:32:37 pm
Yeah, it's intended. Check the Medicine Ufopaedia page, it's been updated to address this. :)

Also, new version is well on its way. Meridian recently added a very cool battlescape function that lets you M-click on enemies to see their picture and weapons:

(https://i.imgur.com/lGlhW7G.png)

However, most units didn't have inventory pictures (which are used for this display), and now I'm cranking them out like crazy. Therefore, everything else is frozen. But I have most early enemies covered already, so it shouldn't be long before update (though I won't have pics for everything yet, this is impossible).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Meridian on January 06, 2017, 01:24:13 pm
Why use dithering on that background picture?

It's really not necessary (simple palette change should more than suffice), and looks quite ugly IMO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 06, 2017, 08:55:44 pm
Why use dithering on that background picture?

It's really not necessary (simple palette change should more than suffice), and looks quite ugly IMO.

It's pretty much a placeholder now... I love the concept though, it looks pretty when not dithered.

But what exactly do you mean by palette change? Doesn't it have to be battlescape?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Meridian on January 06, 2017, 09:01:40 pm
But what exactly do you mean by palette change? Doesn't it have to be battlescape?

Yes, it should be battlescape palette.
The original (at least the one from piratez, maybe you have it from elsewhere) has a ufopedia palette... that's why I am talking about a simple palette change, without dithering, when converting from that original.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 06, 2017, 09:29:20 pm
Yes, it should be battlescape palette.
The original (at least the one from piratez, maybe you have it from elsewhere) has a ufopedia palette... that's why I am talking about a simple palette change, without dithering, when converting from that original.

Turns out I made a mistake and used the main palette (the one for bigobs) instead of battlescape... It's similar, but not exactly the same. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Meridian on January 06, 2017, 09:36:46 pm
Turns out I made a mistake and used the main palette (the one for bigobs) instead of battlescape... It's similar, but not exactly the same. Thanks for the heads up.

PAL_BATTLESCAPE... the battlescape palette... will work
PAL_BATTLEPEDIA... the one for bigobs (or ufopedia item articles)... will also work (and is actually preferred)

PAL_UFOPAEDIA... the one for ufopedia text+image articles... will NOT work... the original image was in this palette AFAIK

(for completeness: PAL_GEOSCAPE, PAL_BASESCAPE and PAL_GRAPHS won't work either)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 06, 2017, 09:43:33 pm
OK, but I was using PAL_BATTLEPEDIA, not PAL_UFOPAEDIA. The dithering could also be a conversion effect... Nevermind, I fixed the palette and it works fine in the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Gordonmull on January 07, 2017, 06:20:53 pm
Just popped by to say I've been playing your mod since just before Christmas (so I've had plenty of free time to play) and wow!  ;D I never knew I needed this but apparently it's an old x-files and x-com fan's happiest gaming dream! Totally having a blast.

Loves: the story, the premise, the lead up to war, it's dark and dingy atmosphere, the 'pedia entry for Teamwork, a new appreciation for earth tech, the need for new tactics and the huge roleplaying opportunities. *draws breath* New enemies (especially the weird mutant creatures), reduced team size (hated at first but love now), no explosives or indirect fire in the beginning adds one whopping challenge to the grenadier style of player. 

Hates: erm...nothing so far, really, not one solitary gripe. Yet  ;)

Not spotted any bugs of note apart from a couple of 'pedia entries that could be worded better but I didn't think worth bothering to report at this stage. Only other thing was the taser pistol, which I understand is from FMP so this is probably intentional, but it seems odd to me that a pistol trains the throw stat.

Anyway thank you very much for what is really a new game, I'm off to play it now!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.1b alpha: Black Market Dealers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 08, 2017, 05:37:41 pm
Thank you for the very nice post! I'm happy you are having fun with this mod, even though it's in such an early stage.

Yeah, some texts should be improved. It's just too much to focus on it at this point. Besides, my English is... a bit situational. :P

A new version soon! (It fixes a nasty stealth bug that effectively blocks access to the T'Leth arc.)

EDIT: Version 0.5.2 is online: https://www.mediafire.com/file/4t42tn90jdel8d7/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.5.2.zip

- Moved Kiryu-Kai to Promotion I.
- Added Xenonauts research.
- Added Minebea SMG (graphics by Dioxine).
- Added Laser Carbine.
-  Added Heavy Psi-amp.
- Added Pepper Spray.
-  Added Armoured Vest and Alloy Vest versions shields.
- Fixed BlackOps Sniper Rifle image (by Dioxine).
- Standard Psi-Amp cannot work through walls now, but is one-handed.
- Added armed police officers and other civilians.
- Doubled armour values on Floaters.
- Increased Health of all Snakemen.
- Gave minor psi abilities to all Sectoids.
- Black Lotus people now (mostly) surrender.
- Added combat and alloy gears for X-Com dogs.
- Increased X-Com dogs' Health.
- Added inventory pictures to many enemies (also seen if M-clicking on a unit - function by Meridian).
- Vehicles now require pilots (added some research for this).
- Modified Firestorm's weapons. Increased size of maps with UFOs.
- Added one Alien Base map.
- Added some new Polar maps.
- Fixed PORTUFO05, PORTUFO17, PORTUFO20, PORTURBAN08 and POLARMOUNT05 routes.
- Fixed Supply Ship maps (by Hellrazor).
- Fixed some M.A.G.M.A. alloy ammo available too soon.
- Fixed Werewolf and Werecat research.
- Fixed Messengers of Dagon being unavailable for research.
- Fixed missing manufacturing project for the Skyraider.
- Fixed Assault Cannon being too easy to buy.
- Fixed initial funding.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: hellrazor on January 08, 2017, 08:29:40 pm
In case I wanna give this mod a go to get some other x-com feeling, what would be needed?
I assume its not supposed to run with the vanilla nightly correct?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Meridian on January 08, 2017, 08:49:57 pm
In case I wanna give this mod a go to get some other x-com feeling, what would be needed?
I assume its not supposed to run with the vanilla nightly correct?

Don't know how it will run on nightly, it will either crash or many things will be missing. It's meant to be run with OXCE+.

Assuming you're on linux, you can build your own executable from here: https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commits/oxce3.5-plus-proto
Or maybe you can find a compatible and recent build here: https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: hellrazor on January 08, 2017, 09:17:41 pm
Don't know how it will run on nightly, it will either crash or many things will be missing. It's meant to be run with OXCE+.

Assuming you're on linux, you can build your own executable from here: https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commits/oxce3.5-plus-proto
Or maybe you can find a compatible and recent build here: https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/

As long as there is a cmake file i will give it a try =)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Slaughter on January 08, 2017, 10:56:19 pm
I heard you were updating, but my personnal calculations said "next week" not "tommorrow". Glad to see I was wrong!

Btw, what about them saves? Just pop and ready to go or something else needed?

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2017, 12:17:18 am
I heard you were updating, but my personnal calculations said "next week" not "tommorrow". Glad to see I was wrong!

Btw, what about them saves? Just pop and ready to go or something else needed?

Yep, no surprises unless noted.

Next LP report when? :q
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Slaughter on January 09, 2017, 02:57:01 am
Yep, no surprises unless noted.

Next LP report when? :q
In a few hours. You already read Ep XXVII?
I should make a thread here too... hmmmm...

EDIT: update XXVIII on site!

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: khade on January 09, 2017, 04:43:18 am
I know it's been talked about before, without resolution, but I think it would be reasonable to be able to park up to 4 of the small vehicles on one hanger.  Or more likely to be useful would be a special hanger or motorpool for those smaller vehicles.  It should still be 2x2 though and only able to hold at most 4 vehicles.  It would make the early game slightly less hard, as the starting transports are all ground vehicles, which would mean you could start with even less money. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Slaughter on January 09, 2017, 08:35:29 am
Should I be able to take non-concealable weapons with me to cultist suspect arrests and such?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Slaughter on January 09, 2017, 10:32:04 am
Should explosion height be = 2?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2 alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2017, 11:16:01 am
I know it's been talked about before, without resolution, but I think it would be reasonable to be able to park up to 4 of the small vehicles on one hanger.  Or more likely to be useful would be a special hanger or motorpool for those smaller vehicles.  It should still be 2x2 though and only able to hold at most 4 vehicles.  It would make the early game slightly less hard, as the starting transports are all ground vehicles, which would mean you could start with even less money. :)

I'm not against it, so if there is code written for this feature, it would be possible.

Should I be able to take non-concealable weapons with me to cultist suspect arrests and such?

Yes. Cultist investigations aren't sneaky missions. You are still limited by what you can use in general.

Should explosion height be = 2?

Yes. Good point, I'll add it to the readme.

EDIT: Version 0.5.2b uploaded.

- Removed some unnecessary files.
- Added blacops Sniper Rifle AA Clip.

Download at https://www.mediafire.com/file/8ibrrho8e6jsc0q/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.5.2b.zip
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: mrbiasha on January 09, 2017, 12:32:42 pm
Oh, wow! You update so fast now and so many things! This version updates look really cool, I'd better speed up to taste them all. Also I recently invested some time and managed to get Promotion I in my game and it seemed to me a bit easier than in previous versions. What is really needed to be able to compile first Report?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2017, 12:42:29 pm
Oh, wow! You update so fast now and so many things! This version updates look really cool, I'd better speed up to taste them all. Also I recently invested some time and managed to get Promotion I in my game and it seemed to me a bit easier than in previous versions. What is really needed to be able to compile first Report?

Thanks! The rules for Promotion I haven't changed, it's one strange creature autopsy and one cultist interrogated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: mrbiasha on January 09, 2017, 12:48:51 pm
Thanks! The rules for Promotion I haven't changed, it's one strange creature autopsy and one cultist interrogated.

Oh, than it's me just managed to do it quite quickly. Also, I'm somewhat baffled, I researched new SMG but can't find ammo for it, should it be in store or researched somehow?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2017, 12:52:07 pm
Oh, than it's me just managed to do it quite quickly. Also, I'm somewhat baffled, I researched new SMG but can't find ammo for it, should it be in store or researched somehow?

You mean the Minebea? It uses Uzi clips, I may have forgotten to state it specifically.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: mrbiasha on January 09, 2017, 12:58:01 pm
You mean the Minebea? It uses Uzi clips, I may have forgotten to state it specifically.

Ah, it reads "modified Uzi version", I haven't found one yet, so I have no ammo. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2017, 01:07:40 pm
Ah, it reads "modified Uzi version", I haven't found one yet, so I have no ammo. Thanks!

The ammo should unlock together with the weapon, either normal Uzi or the Minebea version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: mrbiasha on January 09, 2017, 01:39:02 pm
The ammo should unlock together with the weapon, either normal Uzi or the Minebea version.

Could it be a bug on my side as I placed newer version just over the older one?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2017, 01:43:45 pm
Could it be a bug on my side as I placed newer version just over the older one?

Probably not, but it's generally a bad idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: wolfreal on January 10, 2017, 10:47:49 pm
I don´t know if this is the correct place to say this, but GREAT MOD!!!. This is a incredible job. Having lots of fun with my first attempt.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 10, 2017, 11:34:52 pm
I don´t know if this is the correct place to say this, but GREAT MOD!!!. This is a incredible job. Having lots of fun with my first attempt.

Thank you!

It's very far from completion, but early game is mostly as it's supposed to be. (Apart from the crop circles missions, they're kinda stupid with the hard turn limit... But at the moment I can't do better. Patience!)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: kazek on January 13, 2017, 04:19:11 pm
YES!!! Now I can finally get back to playing. Or better start a new game.

I've found a skull in game files. I know this doesn't seem physically possible, but can you beat someone to death with it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 13, 2017, 05:47:15 pm
I've found a skull in game files. I know this doesn't seem physically possible, but can you beat someone to death with it?

No, it's indeed too fragile, but if you want, you can mod it yourself! Just add this to the item entry:

Code: [Select]
    meleeHitSound: 109
    meleeAnimation: 0
    meleeType: 6
    meleePower: 0
    meleeBonus:
      strength: 0.5
    meleeAlter:
      RandomType: 2
      FixRadius: 0
      IgnoreDirection: false
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.0
      ToHealth: 0.25
    accuracyMelee: 65
    meleeMultiplier:
      melee: 0.5
      flatHundred: 0.5
    costMelee:
      time: 10
      energy: 4
    flatMelee:
      time: true

It will give it the same melee stats as the flashlight.

And in the meantime, I'm still working on new paperdolls...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: kazek on January 13, 2017, 06:29:08 pm
No, it's indeed too fragile, but if you want, you can mod it yourself! Just add this to the item entry:

Great! All I need now is Pvt Jimmy to suffer that fate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 13, 2017, 08:25:32 pm
Great! All I need now is Pvt Jimmy to suffer that fate.

Sadly, fallen soldiers don't provide skulls... You must find one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: kazek on January 13, 2017, 09:02:47 pm
Sadly, fallen soldiers don't provide skulls... You must find one.
No, it was a Red vs Blue reference.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: firsttefl1 on January 17, 2017, 11:43:56 am
While playing Version 0.5.2b (using the default OpenXCOM Extended 3.5+), I've encountered a crash which happens near the end of the month (when the clock approaches midnight). The save file in question is attached.
No mods except "X-Com Files" have been used.

UPDATED: I also provide the log file.

There has also been a strange glitch on the Durathread Factory Map (the one in the polar region, I think), where units outside buildings seemed not to spend TU while moving around. And there were also freezes during the Enemy Movement screen. Unfortunately I cannot provide any savefiles for that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Meridian on January 17, 2017, 01:50:35 pm
While playing Version 0.5.2b (using the default OpenXCOM Extended 3.5+), I've encountered a crash which happens near the end of the month (when the clock approaches midnight). The save file in question is attached.

Game is starting the recon script (month=17)

Code: [Select]
  - type: recon
    firstMonth: 17

It generates a STR_ALIEN_FLYBY mission and wants to generate race for it.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ALIEN_FLYBY
    points: 50
    raceWeights:
      20:
          STR_SECTOID: 30
          STR_FLOATER: 70
      21:
          STR_SECTOID: 60
          STR_FLOATER: 40
      23:
          STR_SECTOID: 20
          STR_SNAKEMAN: 40
          STR_SNAKEMAN_SALAMANDRON: 20
          STR_FLOATER: 20
      30:
          STR_SECTOID: 10
          STR_SNAKEMAN: 5
          STR_SNAKEMAN_SALAMANDRON: 5
          STR_CEREBREAL: 10
          STR_ETHEREAL_CYBERDISC: 10
          STR_ETHEREAL: 10
          STR_MUTON: 10
          STR_GAZER: 30
          STR_FLOATER: 10
      35:
          STR_SECTOID: 7
          STR_SECTOID_SECTOPOD: 3
          STR_SNAKEMAN: 5
          STR_SNAKEMAN_SALAMANDRON: 5
          STR_CEREBREAL: 10
          STR_ETHEREAL_CYBERDISC: 10
          STR_ETHEREAL: 20
          STR_MUTON: 20
          STR_GAZER: 20
          STR_FLOATER: 10

However, there are no races available for month 17... only for 20+... so it crashes.

I recommend starting the definition with month 0, always...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 17, 2017, 01:57:56 pm
Thanks.

Good point with starting on month 0, this is an artefact from earlier versions of the mod.

Open alienMissions_XCOMFILES, change that 20 to 0 and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: HelmetHair on January 17, 2017, 07:09:37 pm
Awesome!

What did I miss while I almost died?

I'm downloading the new version of the X-com Files now... hopefully it ends up being better than I remember; that's not an insult.

Anyway, keep it cool boys....Real cool.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: firsttefl1 on January 17, 2017, 08:58:34 pm
Thanks.

Good point with starting on month 0, this is an artefact from earlier versions of the mod.

Open alienMissions_XCOMFILES, change that 20 to 0 and you'll be fine.

Thanks, now the game works properly (as for now).

Will the change mean that aliens would start appearing right  from the very beginning?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 17, 2017, 09:03:36 pm
Will the change mean that aliens would start appearing right  from the very beginning?

No, that's regulated elsewhere - in regions and mission scripts.

Also, hi Helmet Hair! Welcome back.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: HelmetHair on January 17, 2017, 11:21:09 pm
Crop circle missions are a real challenge, but also something very different.... I can dig it.

The cultist origin detainment missions are implemented well and they are kind of a good intro into how everything is supposed to work.

Madman terror site mission.... brilliant really; I really liked it, but the bad guy was assigned as being a red dawn ganger rather than some other type of kooky farmer or civillian etc. Is this by design? I'm curious to know if you are going to bring in more human enemies or expand on this mad man idea. So we have something similar to a pogram in Xpiratez but with crazies instead of dicks.

weapons are working as they should so far.
 
Light engine is working as it should with flashlights etc.

The added fluff and flavor is pretty good.

I only have one gripe....

Why does using the dog's senses cost morale? and why does it cost 20% I've had limited success because of this and it is REALLY annoying.

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 18, 2017, 01:31:49 am
Many thanks for the kind words! Apparently there's progress.

the bad guy was assigned as being a red dawn ganger rather than some other type of kooky farmer or civillian etc. Is this by design?

There are several madman types, actually. None of them uses Red Dawn sprites though. :)

I'm curious to know if you are going to bring in more human enemies or expand on this mad man idea. So we have something similar to a pogram in Xpiratez but with crazies instead of dicks.

Yeah, gradually. I need to build more skeleton forst, but when it's done, I'll concentrate more on adding fun stuff. (I sort of did that already with early game and Hybrids.)

I only have one gripe....

Why does using the dog's senses cost morale? and why does it cost 20% I've had limited success because of this and it is REALLY annoying.

Because the working dog becomes restless and prone to, well, bolting to places. But it's only 10%, so killing stuff more than makes up for it. Besides, it helps training morale.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: JeyP on January 18, 2017, 01:51:15 am
Hope that this time i will play beyond Rromotion II. Here are some questions, thoughts, mumblings...

1) Don't know if it was fixed but it was funny have 2 dogs at the beggining. You should see the cultist faces when they saw 2 dogs leaving the car :)

2) Why billhook from the start ? Don't look like weapon that would be used by agency like x-com and all items that are available from the start should have ufopedia entry already, agents should have atleast some basic training and know what it is.

3) Gym still too good ? Lower stats growth or maybe allow 1 gym per base on superhuman, 2 on genius, veteran, 3 on experienced beginner if possible.

4) Promotion I look poor compare to non standard weapons (NSW). Transfer short shotgun to NSW and shotgun to Promotion I. Make telescopic baton as starting weapon and transfer electric club to the Promotion I or leave it as it is and give tonfa on Promotion I. Hunting riffle look bad compare to shotgun with AP ammo so maybe give it 0.1-0.15 damage bonus from firing accuracy.

5) Riffles and especially sniper riffles should focuse on aim shoot but they work like any other weapons. I use it more like reaction fire/snap shoot sentry becouse snap shoot is to accurate, in this kind of weapons snap shoot should be made from hip and would be far less accurate, so lower accuracy of snap shoot. Probably some TU cost of aim shoot and damage alter would be necessary to. Different weapons handlings enrich gampley.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 18, 2017, 02:38:16 am
1) Don't know if it was fixed but it was funny have 2 dogs at the beggining. You should see the cultist faces when they saw 2 dogs leaving the car :)

It's fixed now... It made some people sad, though.

2) Why billhook from the start ? Don't look like weapon that would be used by agency like x-com and all items that are available from the start should have ufopedia entry already, agents should have atleast some basic training and know what it is.

Please, not this again. :P

But why did you ask about Billhook specifically? Why not Axe, Machete etc.?

3) Gym still too good ? Lower stats growth or maybe allow 1 gym per base on superhuman, 2 on genius, veteran, 3 on experienced beginner if possible.

That's not doable... But I don't really think it's too good. (I already nerfed it twice.) Yes, it trains people, but 1) only to a certain level (not to maximum!), 2) not all stats, 3) it's small. I find it adequate.

4) Promotion I look poor compare to non standard weapons (NSW).

Well, yeah. But it leads somewhere, not just gives you a new weapon or two.

Transfer short shotgun to NSW and shotgun to Promotion I. Make telescopic baton as starting weapon and transfer electric club to the Promotion I or leave it as it is and give tonfa on Promotion I.

I could do that, but I'll need to think about it further. I'm just not convinced this is a better solution. I understand you suggest to make Promotion I better, but I don't really want this - it's an investment.

Hunting riffle look bad compare to shotgun with AP ammo so maybe give it 0.1-0.15 damage bonus from firing accuracy.

Umm, have you tried shooting across the map with a shotgun? Well, you can with a hunting rifle, even with poorish firing accuracy. These weapons are completely incomparable; and I know there are hunting rifle fans.

5) Riffles and especially sniper riffles should focuse on aim shoot but they work like any other weapons. I use it more like reaction fire/snap shoot sentry becouse snap shoot is to accurate, in this kind of weapons snap shoot should be made from hip and would be far less accurate, so lower accuracy of snap shoot. Probably some TU cost of aim shoot and damage alter would be necessary to. Different weapons handlings enrich gampley.

But sniper rifles typically have rather poor accuracy on snap shots. I can't see how they're used as reaction weapons - to me it seems like a weird choice. And regarding rifles, well - which ones? It's a broad category. But unlike sniper rifles, they aren't made for aimed shots specifically, it's a versatile weapon category.

Anyway, in the next version sniper rifles will also have bonus vs. armour, because I thought them too weak.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: HelmetHair on January 18, 2017, 06:10:51 pm
1.What are the stat limits on training in the GYM now?

2. Have you thought of maybe including an intermediate type of laboratory that allows more scientists that doesn't cost like 4 million dollars? Especially with the crazy amount of research you have added since I seriously played... it's a bit overwhelming.

3. Dogs are pretty neat, but the morale thing just feels wonky... maybe it's just me  :)

4. tons of new enemies.... cool. Werewolves haven't really been anything other than bullet sponges because of the terrain. Are they mean and nasty? Chupas are still massive dicks though.

JeyP,

Promotion I is pretty poor if you look at it from a standpoint of "Ok, NOW I'M LEVELED UP"!! However, it's really a case of the now being eligible to level up... Like alternate Advancement in Everquest, but that's showing my age.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 18, 2017, 06:21:17 pm
1.What are the stat limits on training in the GYM now?

Here's the max stats for gym training:

Code: [Select]
      tu: 70
      stamina: 100
      health: 55
      bravery: 100
      reactions: 70
      firing: 80
      throwing: 70
      strength: 60
      psiStrength: 100
      psiSkill: 100
      melee: 80

And here's max stats for battle (and piloting!) training:

Code: [Select]
      tu: 80
      stamina: 100
      health: 70
      bravery: 100
      reactions: 100
      firing: 120
      throwing: 90
      strength: 70
      psiStrength: 100
      psiSkill: 100
      melee: 120

Actually the difference isn't huge, so maybe I should put a bit more limit on gym training.

(This is about human agents; dogs have different values.)

2. Have you thought of maybe including an intermediate type of laboratory that allows more scientists that doesn't cost like 4 million dollars? Especially with the crazy amount of research you have added since I seriously played... it's a bit overwhelming.

But the entire point is to unlock the normal lab and force you to use just 5 people earlier... In the current version you have so much money you an build several HQs per base. But the next version should give you more financial trouble, so we'll see how it works out. I'm always open to suggestions.

3. Dogs are pretty neat, but the morale thing just feels wonky... maybe it's just me  :)

I think it's balanced as it is, but of course some people will like it more, some less. :) I wouldn't want to make the dogs too good, it would be awkward.

4. tons of new enemies.... cool. Werewolves haven't really been anything other than bullet sponges because of the terrain. Are they mean and nasty? Chupas are still massive dicks though.

Yeah... And I'd like some more critters still. :) I plan to steal Robin's Multiworm, but it will only appear in caves and maybe other underground locations, when/if I get to that "Underdark" arc (with Reptoids and such).

Promotion I is pretty poor if you look at it from a standpoint of "Ok, NOW I'M LEVELED UP"!! However, it's really a case of the now being eligible to level up... Like alternate Advancement in Everquest, but that's showing my age.

Yeah, it's mostly a gating tech. It allows you to research and use new stuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: JeyP on January 18, 2017, 08:24:49 pm
Please, not this again. :P

But why did you ask about Billhook specifically? Why not Axe, Machete etc.?

Don't have problem with acquiring new weapons but billhook is avaliable for purchase from the beginning. Knife and combat knife are more than enough btw add knife to the ufopedia we can buy it so should know what it is.

That's not doable... But I don't really think it's too good. (I already nerfed it twice.) Yes, it trains people, but 1) only to a certain level (not to maximum!), 2) not all stats, 3) it's small. I find it adequate.

Now when i know what the max stats are gym looks better, thought they are bigger. Guess i need to learn what files have interesting infos/values.

Umm, have you tried shooting across the map with a shotgun? Well, you can with a hunting rifle, even with poorish firing accuracy. These weapons are completely incomparable; and I know there are hunting rifle fans.

Thats the whole point beouse sniper like weapons should focus on aim shot but i don't feel like it is a good choice to use it becouse only one shot that can miss even with 100%++ chnce to hit vs 2-3 snaps that are quite accurate. Maybe its only my problem but when sniper rifle have 70%+ snap shoot accuracy i wil fight with it in middle range and not as a sniper rifle. Long story short i feel that sniper like wepons should have 30-50% snap shoot accuracy. Just a suggestion. I will change simple things like that for my liking anyway.

But sniper rifles typically have rather poor accuracy on snap shots. I can't see how they're used as reaction weapons - to me it seems like a weird choice. And regarding rifles, well - which ones? It's a broad category. But unlike sniper rifles, they aren't made for aimed shots specifically, it's a versatile weapon category.

Different play style for me it a waste of soldiers capability making aim shoots when you have good snap and 70%+ is far from poor on a soldier with 100+ firing accuracy. Yeah rifles can have good snap shot because of lower damage compared to sniper rifles so they are ok.

One more thing maybe add car/van inventory avaliable from every green square. We offten fight with a lot of enemys and use car/van as a cover so would be nice to have acces to the inventory from both sides. It's not crucial but like i said would be nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: HelmetHair on January 18, 2017, 10:15:50 pm
Man,  freaking beetle missions take forever... of course the there is usually 30-33 of them and I have to expend over 500 rounds of ammunition to kill them all. I mean HOLY SHIT I had to shoot the fuck out of those things.

It's getting a touch grindy but I can dig it.

So much research...

-HH
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.2b alpha: Wings of Fury
Post by: ohartenstein23 on January 18, 2017, 10:18:42 pm
Beetles, zombies, giant scorpions, different creatures, same tense shootout every time.  Then he throws things that can shoot back at you in those kinds of numbers...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 19, 2017, 02:23:31 am
Don't have problem with acquiring new weapons but billhook is avaliable for purchase from the beginning. Knife and combat knife are more than enough btw add knife to the ufopedia we can buy it so should know what it is.

Ah OK, I get it now... Yeah, these are bugs. Fixing.

Now when i know what the max stats are gym looks better, thought they are bigger. Guess i need to learn what files have interesting infos/values.

I wonder if the gym max stats aren't too high... They probably are. :P

Thats the whole point beouse sniper like weapons should focus on aim shot but i don't feel like it is a good choice to use it becouse only one shot that can miss even with 100%++ chnce to hit vs 2-3 snaps that are quite accurate. Maybe its only my problem but when sniper rifle have 70%+ snap shoot accuracy i wil fight with it in middle range and not as a sniper rifle. Long story short i feel that sniper like wepons should have 30-50% snap shoot accuracy. Just a suggestion. I will change simple things like that for my liking anyway.

I totally get this, that's why I gave sniper weapons an armour defeating bonus in the next update. If it doesn't help, I'll have to rethink the entire sniper rifle philosophy. (Or make bigger maps.)

Different play style for me it a waste of soldiers capability making aim shoots when you have good snap and 70%+ is far from poor on a soldier with 100+ firing accuracy. Yeah rifles can have good snap shot because of lower damage compared to sniper rifles so they are ok.

Yeah, that's why Arasaka is so good. :P I don't think the balance is bad in this regard, though. But I'm open to criticism.

One more thing maybe add car/van inventory avaliable from every green square. We offten fight with a lot of enemys and use car/van as a cover so would be nice to have acces to the inventory from both sides. It's not crucial but like i said would be nice.

Only one square can be used as stash... I can move it to a different one, but can't spread items between several ones.

Man,  freaking beetle missions take forever... of course the there is usually 30-33 of them and I have to expend over 500 rounds of ammunition to kill them all. I mean HOLY SHIT I had to shoot the fuck out of those things.

It's getting a touch grindy but I can dig it.

So much research...

-HH

Yeah, it happens, but most battles are much shorter. I like me a long battle - once in a while.

Beetles, zombies, giant scorpions, different creatures, same tense shootout every time.  Then he throws things that can shoot back at you in those kinds of numbers...

Usually a smaller number! Usually. :P

EDIT:

Version 0.5.3 was released.

- Added Staff of Heart Grip.
- All sniper rifles now have 25% armor penetration.
- Added synthetizing Blood Plasma from Elerium.
- Rebalanced value for various units.
- Added City Boy and Salamandron paperdolls.
- Slightly decreased number of enemies in Temple of Dagon.
- Fixed alien base spawning.
- Fixed Alien Flyby mission crash.
- Fixed some starting weapons' acquisition.

EDIT:

The file had an error, so I reuploaded it. Please download 0.5.3 again if you did it already.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: JeyP on January 19, 2017, 01:20:59 pm
I wonder if the gym max stats aren't too high... They probably are. :P

Need to see how often my agents will die later on to have opinion on that ^^ But these 100 and reaction probably could be lower.

I totally get this, that's why I gave sniper weapons an armour defeating bonus in the next update. If it doesn't help, I'll have to rethink the entire sniper rifle philosophy. (Or make bigger maps.)

Armor pierce don't make aim shoot more useful than snap. Bigger map would but ther are some cons to. Mission like cultist outpost could be on a bigger map if you don't spawn in the corner it is hard to win on smal map with ~20 opponents.

Only one square can be used as stash... I can move it to a different one, but can't spread items between several ones.

Too bad would be great to have acces from ever square for car/van.


My old amiga/psx font mod don't work with this version of oxce+ if someone have working one or know what to do to make old work again pm. Thanks!

PS. New wersion ... will newer go past promotion II :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: The13thRonin on January 19, 2017, 04:46:57 pm
My game won't fire up? I click the .exe and AVAST starts scanning it. Then it finishes... The black window with the run information disappears and nothing opens. Any further attempts to open it fail.

EDIT: It's AVAST... Nuking AVAST for ~10 minutes allows me to open the mod... Weird... Oh well... Hopefully we can help someone with a similar problem one day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: HelmetHair on January 19, 2017, 04:53:05 pm
Any Special upgrade instructions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 19, 2017, 05:55:39 pm
EDIT: It's AVAST... Nuking AVAST for ~10 minutes allows me to open the mod... Weird... Oh well... Hopefully we can help someone with a similar problem one day.

Avast is throwing fits over the new .exe because oh my, it's a new .exe! AVAST DOESN'T KNOW THIS!!!

What am I supposed to do about it? Your antivirus program works correctly, or at least as designed. Enable running suspicious files and you're done.

Any Special upgrade instructions?

Nah, just delete your old folder like always.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: The13thRonin on January 19, 2017, 06:05:22 pm
What am I supposed to do about it?

I didn't say you had to do anything about it? I was explaining my fix in-case someone with the same problem reads this.

Also the problem is specific to your X-Com Files .exe I've tried the Final Mod Pack for example and it plays nicely with AVAST.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 19, 2017, 06:07:43 pm
I didn't say you had to do anything about it? I was explaining my fix in-case someone with the same problem reads this.

Yeah, what I mean is that it's completely unrelated to the mod. It applies to any exe you compile yourself, for example.

Also the problem is specific to your X-Com Files .exe I've tried the Final Mod Pack for example and it plays nicely with AVAST.

Perhaps because FMP uses vanilla exe, which isn't 1 day old. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: HelmetHair on January 20, 2017, 07:58:14 am
Have you thought about making a better health spray dispenser that uses only human tech....

I'm going bonkers having to drag around so many health sprays because they are so damn handy.  ;D

Could we get a manufactured version that utilizes the purchased health sprays into a larger container that's a touch more space saving/ convenient? or maybe 2 larger sizes that have to be manufactured from the purchased health sprays in some proto healthkit thing?

Here is what I am thinking.

1. A 2x2 that holds 4 health 2 stim 2 painkiller but weighs 16 Trauma pack
2. A 2x3 Backpack that hold 10 health 5 stim 5 painkiller and weighs 25 Squad med pack

the added weight and steps make them EXSPENSIVE but don't require blood plasma.

thoughts?

Edited... ACK! 2x3
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 20, 2017, 12:36:30 pm
I can do these 2x2 trauma packs, they'd be just superheavy medikits. I just need the resources.

About 3x3... Not really, because it'd be too big to fit in the hand (which is 2x3). It would still work, but it would look ugly.

EDIT: How about this bigob for the trauma pack? (Stolen from XOps.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: HelmetHair on January 20, 2017, 03:26:07 pm
Oops!

I meant 2x3 and looked like a back pack but I wasn't clear.

The bigob you posted looks great!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 20, 2017, 05:24:04 pm
Oops!

I meant 2x3 and looked like a back pack but I wasn't clear.

The bigob you posted looks great!

Cool! It's in the game already. Available for research after you get Medicine (like Healing Spray).

I wonder if a bigger, 1x2 spray would be useful? With 3 healing charges (no HP recovery, only curing wounds)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: mrbiasha on January 20, 2017, 05:36:22 pm

- Slightly decreased number of enemies in Temple of Dagon.


Oh, why would you do that? Not that I am against it, but it seemed right that while having inferior weaponry Dagon cultists would have numbers and superhuman allies.

Also, on the topic of precision weapons: I always liked Hunting Rifle in situations when I was able to field agents in numbers. It has a somewhat decent clip size for it's level, good TU cost and I always try to have both hunting rifle and shotgun on any kind of combat missions. I can't really say about hard numbers and effectiveness but it helped me in a number of situations and I prefer it to shotgun with slugs or elephant rifle (while of course I use those weapons too like additional fire power on proficient agents). Btw Arasaka 3000 is OP as hell, I fended off Ethereal and Waspoid base attacks with those.

The idea of better health packs is not bad, but they should be uneasy to obtain as compacted supply of health chems on every agent is a real boon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: HelmetHair on January 20, 2017, 06:11:37 pm
Btw Arasaka 3000 is OP as hell, I fended off Ethereal and Waspoid base attacks with those.

The idea of better health packs is not bad, but they should be uneasy to obtain as compacted supply of health chems on every agent is a real boon.

Yeah the A3k is OP.  ;D

I'd love to see a 1x2 (or 2x1) Health spray with 3-4 charges and a 2x2 with 5-7 health 1-2 stim and 1-2 painkiller using 100% human tech. Either having to buy each piece and combine at manufacture or outright buy would be cool. Simulating true "bleeding edge"  technology or outsourcing manufacture.   I suppose this could balanced by weight and the very high cost of these units.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: JeyP on January 20, 2017, 08:35:13 pm
In version 0.5.3 ufo show up from the beginning at first thought it was some rare mission but there is a lot of them.

edit: Forgeting all the time that there is a bug topic...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 20, 2017, 08:55:04 pm
Oh, why would you do that? Not that I am against it, but it seemed right that while having inferior weaponry Dagon cultists would have numbers and superhuman allies.

Worry not, it was rather cosmetic.

In version 0.5.3 ufo show up from the beginning at first thought it was some rare mission but there is a lot of them.

But it's almost exclusively alien research, which 1) is benign, 2) is canon.

I'll decrease them further, but it's work - I need to move missions from the table to missionScripts, which isn't trivial.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on January 20, 2017, 09:02:27 pm
I don't think he's saying at the beginning of the invasion, but as soon as you start the game.  Try starting a new game on version 0.5.3, and it starts the mission table in the first month.

Edit: Here's a save with a landed UFO in the first month.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 20, 2017, 09:25:18 pm
I don't think he's saying at the beginning of the invasion, but as soon as you start the game.  Try starting a new game on version 0.5.3, and it starts the mission table in the first month.

Edit: Here's a save with a landed UFO in the first month.

Yes, I understood that - or at least I think I did.

Before I move the missions to missionScripts there isn't much I can do, but notice that there are (hopefully) no alien terrors, no bases etc. - so the invasion hasn't started. But yes, there are UFOs, and it is totally fine.

I actually managed to assault a landed UFO in my first month with a car. I got a dead Sectoid corpse. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on January 20, 2017, 09:27:33 pm
Ah, working as intended :)  Just in case our agents haven't been dying fast enough to chupacabras and firearms, here's some alien laser rifles and plasma to run into.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.3 alpha: Boom, Headshot!
Post by: JeyP on January 20, 2017, 11:47:27 pm
This is even better than "2 dogs 1 car" ^^

(ringing phone sound)

        ...........: What is it?
        Agent1: Commander we have a problem.
Commander: Last time I told you, if you crash rental car again you will be cleaning the toilets for a month.
        Agent1: We spotted ufo, sir.
Commander: WHAT...a ufo? Where are you now?
        Agent1: We flying to the Europe to investigate rumors about some strange life form.
Commander: Leave it. Tell the pilot to follow that UFO.
        Agent1: But...
Commander: No but, it's an order! (click)
        Agent1: ... He hung up on me like always.
        Agent2: So what did he say?
        Agent1: We must fallow that ufo.
        Agent2: What! But we are in a passenger plane!
        Agent1: Tell me about it ...

Hope ufo won't show from the start. Aren't we learning about aliens too quickly anyway? Becouse Kiryu-Kai basicaly we know about invasion from te start so if invasion will be in 2 years it's not hard connect aliens with most of the circumstance around the world. At te begining i would like to see more x-files than x-com. Kiryu-Kai should be secret, we would need to find dossier about ex kiryu-kai agent then find him or maybe some mission that give us some data item and after research we find out why kiru-kai was terminated (japanese government support aliens in exchange for their technology or something like that)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 21, 2017, 09:30:14 pm
This is even better than "2 dogs 1 car" ^^

I should immortalize it somehow.

(ringing phone sound)

        ...........: What is it?
        Agent1: Commander we have a problem.
Commander: Last time I told you, if you crash rental car again you will be cleaning the toilets for a month.
        Agent1: We spotted ufo, sir.
Commander: WHAT...a ufo? Where are you now?
        Agent1: We flying to the Europe to investigate rumors about some strange life form.
Commander: Leave it. Tell the pilot to follow that UFO.
        Agent1: But...
Commander: No but, it's an order! (click)
        Agent1: ... He hung up on me like always.
        Agent2: So what did he say?
        Agent1: We must fallow that ufo.
        Agent2: What! But we are in a passenger plane!
        Agent1: Tell me about it ...

Funny thing, this is exactly what happened! :) The original mission wasn't that far from the base, so getting there by car wasn't unbelievable.

Hope ufo won't show from the start. Aren't we learning about aliens too quickly anyway?

But aliens have been here for decades. No, I don't think it' a problem.

Becouse Kiryu-Kai basicaly we know about invasion from te start so if invasion will be in 2 years it's not hard connect aliens with most of the circumstance around the world.

Yes, that's more or less why X-Com was created... Although nobody says it out loud.

At te begining i would like to see more x-files than x-com.

Me too, that's the general direction.

Kiryu-Kai should be secret, we would need to find dossier about ex kiryu-kai agent then find him or maybe some mission that give us some data item and after research we find out why kiru-kai was terminated (japanese government support aliens in exchange for their technology or something like that)

No, Kiryu-Kai is not secret and has never been (to X-Com anyway); it's their direct predecessor, it was terminated shortly before X-Com started, and some of X-Com data and possibly equipment and even people - were in Kiryu-Kai before.

But worry not, with time you'll still find what you asked for. :)

Aaaand, surprise 0.5.4 update.

- Added Dossiers: Ivan Vaslov, McGuinness Elliott Cooke, Ernie Lloyd Sobatka, Terrence Lockhart, Harley Stone (all of them by Helmet Hair), Ilya Dolvich (by Warboy1982), Parvati Anand Foster, Dr. Able Standard (both by Ajnunezr), Lucifer Romanov, Martin Jakubko, The Shadowman and The Richter Sisters.
- Added Trauma Pack.
- Improved Prison Cells sprite.
- Fixed Uzi Clip acquisition.
- Fixed Staff of Heart Grip not appearing on enemies.
- Fixed MiB Agent knowing too much.
- Fixed Shadowbat body size.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: wolfreal on January 22, 2017, 09:03:44 pm
Quote
Aaaand, surprise 0.5.4 update.

- Added Dossiers: Ivan Vaslov, McGuinness Elliott Cooke, Ernie Lloyd Sobatka, Terrence Lockhart, Harley Stone (all of them by Helmet Hair), Ilya Dolvich (by Warboy1982), Parvati Anand Foster, Dr. Able Standard (both by Ajnunezr), Lucifer Romanov, Martin Jakubko, The Shadowman and The Richter Sisters.
- Added Trauma Pack.
- Improved Prison Cells sprite.
- Fixed Uzi Clip acquisition.
- Fixed Staff of Heart Grip not appearing on enemies.
- Fixed MiB Agent knowing too much.
- Fixed Shadowbat body size.

Great!. Downloading xD
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: JeyP on January 24, 2017, 02:39:09 pm
But aliens have been here for decades. No, I don't think it' a problem.

Ofcourse not, this is your vision and no matter what you do you'll never please everybody. But why only alter the original story and not creating totally new one. I had just a little different story vision in my mind. Summary: people don't know about aliens (so ufo don't show on geoscape), aliens have their representatives in governments in many countries and have military and scientific companies that work with state governments. All the strange events around the world is becouse they want to cover their movement and gain even more influence by provide science and military help to many nations. Nations try fight on their own but there is no end to these strange events so UN makes decisions to create x-com agency to explain these strange phenomena. Aliens ofcoures know about x-com, they try to complicate our lives and show that we are incompetent becouse closing the x-com would greatly increase their influence (Kiryu-Kai was terminated that way and aliens gain control over Japan). If we don't do or fail missions aliens gain influence in country/continent (we lose it so less funding from country that don't believe in our skills) and unconsciously turning toward aliens. Finding about aliens and all out battle is a different story. Carry on.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 24, 2017, 06:12:15 pm
It's all fine, I'm not against new scenarios, but this isn't what I'm doing right now, plain and simple. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: HelmetHair on January 25, 2017, 05:01:15 pm
Can't use trauma pack on self; feature or bug?


also.... I found this video...

https://youtu.be/FEV9zjHiICA?list=PL9e7gmwejeGpNRxXByZKvm1cfdEdXG9-s
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 25, 2017, 10:58:47 pm
Can't use trauma pack on self; feature or bug?

Feature, since (in this simplified model) you can't operate on yourself, unless the medikit does it by itself (like spray, mutant plasma etc.).

also.... I found this video...

https://youtu.be/FEV9zjHiICA?list=PL9e7gmwejeGpNRxXByZKvm1cfdEdXG9-s

I'll watch it later. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: HelmetHair on January 26, 2017, 12:31:31 am
Okay then... I'll need a bigger health spray then also :) That is what makes health spray so useful is the ability to use it on yourself especially in early missions where people are always getting shot and messed up.

Also, I appear to be missing armor? Where is the intermediate step between Kevlar and personal armor? Where is the earth technology plate carriers a step up from a Kevlar vest? Where are the durathread armors and the Alien alloy plates over durathread soft armor? The step between kevlar and personal armor seems huge with everything in between seeming to be inferior kevlar.  What am I missing?

promotion II... broke down and looked at the tech tree.

I'm not understanding the progression or something. How do I get to promotion II? I have literally shot aliens to death and provided corpses and provided working examples of alien technology including power source, alloys, and navigation. I think that pretty well proves that aliens exist and they are hostile :) What am I missing?

edit: dependence on creature spawn and live capture of only certain critters.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: ohartenstein23 on January 26, 2017, 12:42:53 am
Have you hired a head researcher? They won't really listen to you about alien tech until you have an expert. Guessing you have a head engineer? Without someone like that, they don't care about all your babbling about alien gizmos. And better have an expert in alien language to prove it's real too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: wolfreal on January 26, 2017, 08:28:52 pm
Have you hired a head researcher? They won't really listen to you about alien tech until you have an expert. Guessing you have a head engineer? Without someone like that, they don't care about all your babbling about alien gizmos. And better have an expert in alien language to prove it's real too.

And you need all the criminals networks researched, so, try to capture people.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 26, 2017, 10:46:17 pm
And you need all the criminals networks researched, so, try to capture people.

It's always good advice. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.4 alpha: The Actual Files
Post by: HelmetHair on January 26, 2017, 10:57:37 pm
Actually, it has to do with how dependencies of Mutant physiology and mission spawning (i.e. luck). Basically, if the "strange lifeform" missions don't spawn the right creatures , then you cannot obtain the chief researcher as what is required is a LIVE specimen of a particular few types. This is compounded by that a Sectoid autopsy does not trigger alien lifeforms and alien lifeforms doesn't trigger mutant physiology. This is of course because a live alien is needed for alien lifeform, but you can't get that without an alien containment which requires at its root....mutant physiology. So it's a giant painful and overly boring circle of waiting on a specific mission for an overly long period of time

I'm calling this one a bug for the reason that RNG can fuck you to death.

So, basically the fix is if you get an alien dead or alive, you get alien lifeforms, and alien lifeforms can trigger mutant physiology if you haven't got there already so you can get the head researcher for all staff contacted and thus Promotion II.

It's basically ruined this go at it... so I'm starting over because I'm in October of '98 and falling behind the score 8 ball because of RNG bullshit.


edited for clarity and tone
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 30, 2017, 09:50:39 pm
I'm calling this one a bug for the reason that RNG can fuck you to death.

To be completely honest, it never happened to me, I've always been swamped with all sorts of mutants. But I hear and recognize your problem, and I think you can relax - various steps were taken to rebalance the early game, so hopefully it'll be improved.

And now, 0.5.5 has been released! Get it here (https://www.mediafire.com/file/36es27zmy866yb8/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.5.5.zip).

- Added Bio Laboratory.
- Added block RAILYARDURBAN28.
- Added Sabre (graphics by Dioxine).
- Added Dossiers:  Richard Roty, Owen Hoffer, Kim Harwell (all by Ivan Dogovich), Carlos Tanaka, Elias Seppä, Abeba Tewolde (all by Ajnunezr), Agent Trauma and Monica Grummann.
- Low-rank Dagon cultists see one tile further at night.
- Shadowbats attack slower.
- HQ is cheaper.
- Trauma Pack is better.
- Dogs are gated behind a research.
- Some new weapon sounds.
- Ridiculous research costs on some things are fixed.
- Medipacks train Bravery now (but sprays and gels don't).
- Fixed FN FAL available too early.
- Fixed a problem with block UBASE_19.
- Fixed retaliations.
- Varius minor fixes to the Ufopaedia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on January 31, 2017, 11:04:17 am
After playing Area51 I deceided to try this mod. The result was... "wow!" Thanks for your work here, mr. Solarius. I really like how it goes. There not just aliens - woohoo! And thank god the scale of events are somehow smaller now. No need to chase aliens - unless I'll be forced to hijack civilian planes for this :D Some thought about what I saw at this moment:

- Chupakabras using Zergling sounds - errr, okay. Anyway they tried to zergrush me in our first encounter :D
- Yetis... sorry, shamblers has issues with walking frames - some angles are looking glitchy.
- "capture the cultist/abductee"-type missions are really good feature. Virtually these are only mission type with next-to zero mortality rate!
- Zombie Infection missions - it's Resident Evil time! Or... Doom time (because zombie death sprite looks very familiar for me and some civilians have zombieman death sound)?
- Mongorn? Who the hell... oh, hello Grey Witch.
- panicking Giant Beetles - lolwut?

And now for the questions:
- what about compatibility with music packs? If I'll try to use PSX music pack, will something be broken?
- is there any priorities about "story-wise" researches? I mean, is Alien-related research my primary object or I can follow exclusively any other branch (mutants/zombies/cults)?
- compatibility question again: are my current saves from 0.5.4 compatible with 0.5.5?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 31, 2017, 03:28:21 pm
After playing Area51 I deceided to try this mod. The result was... "wow!" Thanks for your work here, mr. Solarius. I really like how it goes. There not just aliens - woohoo! And thank god the scale of events are somehow smaller now. No need to chase aliens - unless I'll be forced to hijack civilian planes for this :D Some thought about what I saw at this moment:

Thanks for the kind review! Every time I see one I feel that this mod is something worth doing after all. :)

- Chupakabras using Zergling sounds - errr, okay. Anyway they tried to zergrush me in our first encounter :D
- Yetis... sorry, shamblers has issues with walking frames - some angles are looking glitchy.
- "capture the cultist/abductee"-type missions are really good feature. Virtually these are only mission type with next-to zero mortality rate!
- Zombie Infection missions - it's Resident Evil time! Or... Doom time (because zombie death sprite looks very familiar for me and some civilians have zombieman death sound)?
- Mongorn? Who the hell... oh, hello Grey Witch.
- panicking Giant Beetles - lolwut?

Zergling sounds are not the first pack I used, but it seems like the most appropriate.
Problems with frames are not related to the mod directly, but to the code. Will be fixed.
Yeah, the dead zombie sprite is taken from Doom.
Of course Giant Beetles can panic! ;)

And now for the questions:
- what about compatibility with music packs? If I'll try to use PSX music pack, will something be broken?

To be honest I don't know. It should work, but no guarantees. You can always give it a try; if it crashes or anything, just disable the music pack mod.

- is there any priorities about "story-wise" researches? I mean, is Alien-related research my primary object or I can follow exclusively any other branch (mutants/zombies/cults)?

There are crucial researches. Follow the advice of your staff, especially the strategy researches for subsequent promotion levels.

- compatibility question again: are my current saves from 0.5.4 compatible with 0.5.5?

Yes, they are compatible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on January 31, 2017, 05:06:07 pm

To be completely honest, it never happened to me, I've always been swamped with all sorts of mutants. But I hear and recognize your problem, and I think you can relax - various steps were taken to rebalance the early game, so hopefully it'll be improved.


Awesome! I hated to have to go digging through the research tree... forbidden knowledge :) So what did you change the balance on?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 31, 2017, 05:08:39 pm
Awesome! I hated to have to go digging through the research tree... forbidden knowledge :) So what did you change the balance on?

It's kinda complicated... I haven't changed the enemy spawning as such, but the early biological tech tree was changed - with the new bio lab facility you get some researches done faster, for example.

What was it exactly that gave you trouble?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on January 31, 2017, 06:40:02 pm
I kept getting railroaded because of a lack of body armor, and not so good weapons. Tons of activity but simply bottle necked by an inability to progress with any equipment. Casualties were mounting from stupid preventable shit by having inferior equipment. Better equipment comes with promotion so thus I needed to get promoted.

I couldn't research Promotion II.
I couldn't research Promotion II because I didn't have All Staff Contacted.
I couldn't research All Staff Contacted because I couldn't Recruit Head Researcher
I couldn't Recruit Head Researcher because I couldn't research Mutant Physiology.
I couldn't research Mutant Physiology because I couldn't get a live specimen of applicable creatures.
I couldn't get a live specimen because the creatures were not spawning.... except for once a Fenir wolf.... but it died on its first turn because it charged my dudes and they shot the ever-loving shit out of it with MP5s and magnums during reaction fire.
 
Seriously...poor fucking wolf.

I was getting every critter except the ones I needed. Beatles, chupas, zombies (oh lawd the zombies), scorpions, shadow bats. TONS of cultists missions, aliens even!.... I had 3 successful alien missions in a single month!  So, I'm sitting there on a metric fuckton of captured alien technology,with the Sectoid corpse researched and a dozen more on ice. I can't research Alien containment to get a live alien and I can't get promotion II.... fuck.

I'm thinking "how the fuck am I supposed to prove there is a threat to the world when I'm literally killing aliens? do they want a live one? Well, I cut one open and know how they work, or could figure it out to get an alien containment." Nope.

So, I thumbed through the research tree and saw the problem.

Edited because cold medicine makes me trippy as fuck
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 31, 2017, 07:42:25 pm
OK, I understand now... But I can't imagine how fucked you were with not getting the right creatures, since at every single playthrough mongorns and shamblers are like a quarter of alien life form missions.

In other news, I realized that cult bases have no random loot, lol. I forgot to finish it long ago and never noticed. Will be done in the next version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 01, 2017, 04:07:25 pm
Eh, imagine or don't. It was probably a fluke and not really all that important really; just frustrating.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 01, 2017, 04:54:03 pm
Eh, imagine or don't. It was probably a fluke and not really all that important really; just frustrating.

Yeah, I need more tests to see if it was a one in a million fluke or a one in a four fluke. The first is acceptable, the latter is not.

Also, I finally started working on Syndicate offices... Expect very tall (for X-Com) and very random buildings.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 01, 2017, 07:13:22 pm
I think that the Black-OPS CAW may be a touch OP with AP rounds.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 01, 2017, 07:20:26 pm
I think that the Black-OPS CAW may be a touch OP with AP rounds.

I think it's OK... Used to wander about it, but I met too many players who think it's useless. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 01, 2017, 07:32:12 pm
It's a nice rookie gun when they're poor enough shots to not use Nitro Express or Arasaka 3000, but it's damn heavy and not that much better than the first Shotgun you can get with AP slugs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mrbiasha on February 01, 2017, 09:10:50 pm
I would say it is a fairly good assault weapon, quite useful when you need to enter tight spaces and buildings, fast and accurate enough. I find it more useful to myself than blackops shotgun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 01, 2017, 10:03:22 pm
I encountered a weird thing while playing 0.5.5 - 70% of "Strange Life Form" missions have zombies instead any other mutants. And right now I met bloody zombies IN THE "CROP CIRCLES" MISSION! Can't remember something like that happening in 0.5.4...
Here's a screenshot:
(https://s30.postimg.org/xs343cerl/WTF.png)
Was it intended? I sent my "inquisitors" (team of agents with non-letal weapons for capturing cultists and abductees) for this mission but I don't think they can handle zombies  :D
UPD.: I wanted to see if this will happen again so I loaded autosave. Crop Circle mission appeared again, different map this time... BUT DANG IT! I found a zombie again  :D I used "full display" option for bigger picture:
(https://s28.postimg.org/6j64c7d4t/wtf2.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 01, 2017, 11:50:30 pm
Yes, fully intended. Research stuff to learn more on why.

I'm glad you made these comics, they show that the intended effect was successfully achieved. :) I wouldn't mind seeing more comics!

As for zombies appearing on strange life form missions... Well, it's a mater or RNG. But I wouldn't mind having more monster types. I'm still adding them (the last one was the beetle), but it is quite time-consuming (and I also need some sprites to convert, since I'm not drawing them completely from scratch, no way).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 03, 2017, 04:31:48 pm
Does Xcom files allow for multiple items per hour to be manufactured?

I can't tell... all I know is the option of  "multiple items per hour" in OXC Vanillla is not included in the the XCom files.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 03, 2017, 04:39:32 pm
Well, the Zombie Plot makes MUCH MORE sense after some further research. Time has come to use "spoiler" button ;D
Howerer, it somewhat retcons original's chryssalid zombification process (or are we witness an "alpha stage" of it?).
Another surprise for me! :D
Mutant Plot became almost obvious for me after this encounter:
(https://s28.postimg.org/6a1ncxyul/spoiler.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2017, 05:02:40 pm
Does Xcom files allow for multiple items per hour to be manufactured?

I can't tell... all I know is the option of  "multiple items per hour" in OXC Vanillla is not included in the the XCom files.

Good question... I never did anything to it, and I can't remember Meridian or Yankes doing so, though I'm not sure. Maybe it was removed at some point?

Well, the Zombie Plot makes MUCH MORE sense after some further research. Time has come to use "spoiler" button ;D

They aren't really related to those... But more will become apparent when I code it. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Meridian on February 03, 2017, 05:21:16 pm
Good question... I never did anything to it, and I can't remember Meridian or Yankes doing so, though I'm not sure. Maybe it was removed at some point?

TFTD manufacturing rules option has been removed and is now standard for both UFO and TFTD in OpenXcom (vanilla).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 03, 2017, 05:25:38 pm
TFTD manufacturing rules option has been removed and is now standard for both UFO and TFTD in OpenXcom (vanilla).

Thanks! I thought that was the case, but i thought I'd ask.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2017, 05:45:37 pm
Thanks for the answer, Meridian. I wasn't sure.

And I finally started some serious work on the corporation building - see attachments for the humble beginnings. (It changes all the time, so it's not like this design is permanent.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 03, 2017, 06:02:02 pm
By the way, as far as I understand, we have some kind of deadline for our "I-want-to-be-next-BPRD" activity (1.01.1999). I'm not sure if all vital research can be done in time - it's almost a middle of 1998 and I still have no Promotion II yet, despite having THREE lab teams.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2017, 06:06:42 pm
By the way, as far as I understand, we have some kind of deadline for our "I-want-to-be-next-BPRD" activity (1.01.1999). I'm not sure if all vital research can be done in time - it's almost a middle of 1998 and I still have no Promotion II yet, despite having THREE lab teams.

No need to sweat it, the invasion isn't too horrible at the moment. I think I'll make it a bit more brutal, but I'll also move the game start back 6 months to give the player more time. For now, it is as it is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: yrizoud on February 03, 2017, 06:45:50 pm
About the building, I think you should open the walls which separate the upper floor from the entrance (glass panels or just waist-high barriers). Gives a nice advantage to whoever is defending.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2017, 06:51:25 pm
About the building, I think you should open the walls which separate the upper floor from the entrance (glass panels or just waist-high barriers). Gives a nice advantage to whoever is defending.

You mean something like this?

(These panels are transparent.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 03, 2017, 08:29:00 pm
No need to sweat it, the invasion isn't too horrible at the moment. I think I'll make it a bit more brutal, but I'll also move the game start back 6 months to give the player more time. For now, it is as it is.
Oh, okay.
Another question - how about to add the famous black helicopters for MiB? They would appear on the Crop Circles mission maps if MiB agents are present there. Nice way to show how they managed to outrun X-Com operatives and good counterpart to X-Com transport.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2017, 08:47:54 pm
Another thing - how about to add famous black helicopters for MiB? It would spawn on the Crop Circles mission maps if MiB agents are present to show how they managed to outrun X-Com operatives.

For now there are black Dragonflies, as I don't have the resources for a helicopter. I could use them, but for now the entire MiB thing is a little small; they can just as well arrive in a black Volga.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 03, 2017, 10:08:00 pm
Well, I don't have to worry about money anymore...

My total income is now over 16 million a month, and growing. I don't have to worry about funding ever again... now I just have to only keep Russia happy. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Ketonur on February 04, 2017, 03:14:07 am
It`s October 1998 and i was just fighting against sectoids (ufo landed next to my base) is it a bug ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 04, 2017, 03:49:45 am
Well, I don't have to worry about money anymore...

My total income is now over 16 million a month, and growing. I don't have to worry about funding ever again... now I just have to only keep Russia happy. :)

Well, the game is still being balanced. :q

It`s October 1998 and i was just fighting against sectoids (ufo landed next to my base) is it a bug ?

It's OK, they're just doing some research - like they have been doing for decades.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: khade on February 04, 2017, 04:05:31 am
Is it possible to start with funding from just one or two countries, possibly determined by where you start, and earn the payments from other countries as you go?  Possibly including research to even legally operate outside of continent you start on.  Maybe missions won't spawn in those areas without research, would need an even earlier start date, or you just have to use covert appropriate weaponry until you have legal right to operate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: firsttefl1 on February 04, 2017, 02:36:13 pm
Another crash - with a message "Research STR_STAFF_009 Not found" (happens at roughly 23:30 - in a few in-game hours - see the savefile).

Savefile, logfile and screenshot are attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 04, 2017, 02:53:21 pm
Is it possible to start with funding from just one or two countries, possibly determined by where you start, and earn the payments from other countries as you go?

Not possible without changes to the code, and possibly very deep changes.

And it would actually make the mod a completely different game about a different organization in different circumstances... So I don't think so.

Another crash - with a message "Research STR_STAFF_009 Not found" (happens at roughly 23:30 - in a few in-game hours - see the savefile).

Oops, I did it again. Thanks for the report and sorry.

For quick fix, add this to your research_XCOMFILES.rul file:

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_STAFF_009
    cost: 0
    points: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_TROLLIUM
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Nord on February 04, 2017, 04:42:10 pm
IMHO:
You know, about late game... Please, rework rail weapons. They are completely unbalanced. Now after research heavy rail cannon no other weapons ever needed. It is... ruining game conception, i think.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 04, 2017, 04:50:48 pm
IMHO:
You know, about late game... Please, rework rail weapons. They are completely unbalanced. Now after research heavy rail cannon no other weapons ever needed. It is... ruining game conception, i think.

Yes, duly noted. I haven't touched that part of the game yet, it's straight copied from the Final Mod Pack... But first I need to finish the mid-game before I get to that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: firsttefl1 on February 04, 2017, 10:09:30 pm
Not exactly a glitch, but rather a weird feature - on the Durathread Factory map units seem to move without actually spending their TU (only outside buildings). I've encountered this one before, but managed to get the savefile only today.
And sometimes the game just freezes on this map (endless "Enemy moving" sequence).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 04, 2017, 10:19:56 pm
Not exactly a glitch, but rather a weird feature - on the Durathread Factory map units seem to move without actually spending their TU (only outside buildings). I've encountered this one before, but managed to get the savefile only today.
And sometimes the game just freezes on this map (endless "Enemy moving" sequence).

Yes, something's wrong with this particular terrain. I'll have a look later. Thanks.

Now I'm doing this stuff:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: firsttefl1 on February 05, 2017, 12:38:51 am
And other strange thing - why is that newly born Chryssalid shown as three enemies instead of one? ("Rogue Chryssalid" mission)

UPDATE - "OH SH** - Those WERE really THREE CHRYSSALIDS!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 05, 2017, 12:53:57 am
(https://arktemplates.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/fallout-guy-721x500.png)

Glad it's not a bug.

BTW there is a separate thread for bug reports.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 05, 2017, 08:49:33 am
Well, the game is still being balanced. :q

I'd actually say it is fairly well balanced... As base facilities are VERY high cost, but low maintenance so your initial buy in is high for the facility itself and in the case of a laboratory; staffing it is also expensive. 3.5 million dollar outlay and 1.1 million in upkeep monthly.

To be an effective multinational force with reasonable response times across the world requires more bases and air craft and with the high number of smaller missions and likely risks of wounding or fatality among agents combined with long personnel development times, and rapidly changing equipment means tactical operations are EXPENSIVE

Now, I can focus more on the tactical aspect and less on the logistical aspect which can be arduous at times.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: kazek on February 05, 2017, 10:55:43 am
I see Vault Boy ate to many Sugar Bombs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: dorsidwarf on February 06, 2017, 01:44:09 pm
I've been playing this again, and developed an utter hatred for the spider missions. I was almost okay with the immense casualties the civs take on the surface,  until after about 10 innocent off-camera maulings I finally got to the second stage, at which point I discovered there were like 30 random idiots wandering around in the spider cave, being mowed down for a massive points loss each time.

Has anyone managed to come up with a way to make terror missions, especially the spider terror missions, not a guaranteed abysmal failure that guarantees defunding any month in which it comes up? I've tried so many times but no matter what, X-Com always takes the blame for a bunch of dead people they physically, humanly, could not in any way have saved. Civilians dont even seem to run from danger in x-com, its so frustrating, especially now that your funding isn't more-or-less unlimited.

edit: stuff like spiders normally taking 1-2 shots but sometimes happily eating 8 direct hits at point-blank range from an AK without going down is fun also
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 06, 2017, 02:15:10 pm
First of all, congratulations on getting this rare mission. I could never get it myself! :P

Secondly, on the second stage there should be only a few civilians, tops. This amount is an honest bug which will be fixed ASAP. Sorry!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: yrizoud on February 06, 2017, 06:04:43 pm
Relevant xkcd (https://what-if.xkcd.com/136/) comic :
(https://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/136/feet.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 06, 2017, 06:19:49 pm
Relevant xkcd (https://what-if.xkcd.com/136/) comic :
(https://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/136/feet.png)

XD

Now I feel like posting some upcoming weapons as a thank you for actually making me laugh:

(https://i.imgur.com/eY9FahC.gif)

Left to right: PKM, SWD, Smith & Wesson 610, FN P-90, FAMAS, Luger (the new sprite - the old one will be used for the Mauser from now on), Mac-10, QBU-88, BlackOps Magnum.
All except the last one are real guns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Slaughter on February 06, 2017, 09:34:10 pm
Funny you guys talk about that, because I had a mission with a whooping 48 Scorpions on it. It came down to one soldier firing off the last of our ammo in order to win. Luckly that was enough, because I'm pretty sure I was this close to ending up fighting scorpions with machetes and combat knifes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 06, 2017, 10:14:37 pm
Ugh I hate that... I also hate the missions with ludicrous amounts of enemies. Red Dawn HQ mission where I lost everyone was still a huge success because I killed 74 enemies. seriously I killed the utter fuck out of dudes.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 07, 2017, 09:54:43 pm
Sol,

After playing for a bit I am seeing a quirk on the research tree. I'll hide what I've noticed behind spoiler tags

In regards to smart weapons....
Why does Advanced AI only trigger Smart Magnum rather than a smart weapons program then the individual weapons? If you can cram smart guts onto a revolver you can cram it onto anything else. Also, why is there no smart Arasaka 3K or Alloy ammo for it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 07, 2017, 11:15:41 pm
Well,
right now the only X-Com-made smart weapon is this Smart Magnum. Other smart weapons are produced by other manufacturers. When/if there are more smart weapons, I'll probably restructure it a little.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: LuigiWhatif on February 08, 2017, 02:44:28 am
I got my first cyberweb mission but I can't find any of the enemies.  I hear doors open so I know they're somewhere but I've explored everywhere I can see and I haven't seen them.  Am I missing something obvious?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 08, 2017, 07:23:20 am
Well,
right now the only X-Com-made smart weapon is this Smart Magnum. Other smart weapons are produced by other manufacturers. When/if there are more smart weapons, I'll probably restructure it a little.

AH! This makes good sense.

There was a really great mechanic that I would love to see expanded or otherwise used in different ways.

MAGMA Alloy Ammo exchange
is an awesome idea that just makes sense. Are you going to expand this to give more flavor and flexibility?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2017, 08:30:40 pm
Thanks!

Are you going to expand this to give more flavor and flexibility?

Oh yes, certainly. Not sure where and how exactly, but I like it too, so.

Also, two new weapons: the goddamn M82 Barett (it used to be THE sniper rifle back in my CP2020 role-playing days*) and the goddamn Wildey (perhaps the biggest pistol on Earth).


* Actually the CP 2020 version was called Barett Arasaka... Now you know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 08, 2017, 09:24:27 pm

I'm over here ROFLing about the Wildey. Old games of Dark Conspiracy (Think twilight 2000 with Cthulu and aliens) using the Wildey because of its overkill damage fucking 4d6 pistol....memories. :)
)
Being a gun nut I can count the number times I've seen one; going regularly to the largest gun show in the western hemispheres on one hand....and expensive to boot $1700 new in box circa 1999 and when they halted production in 2011 the prices rocketed and I saw someone successfully sell one for a touch over $5,000 with a few odds and ends thrown in. I bet that guy was PISSED when they resumed production in 2016... Nothing like getting New Coked, Crystal Pepsied whatever you want to say.

But, fuck yes.... MOAR GUNZ!!  ;D

Can we get a smart Arasaka 3k project and alloy ammo next update... Pretty please.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2017, 10:04:51 pm
Can we get a smart Arasaka 3k project and alloy ammo next update... Pretty please.

Sorry, no - the manufacturer would sue our asses. :) We can also fiddle with BlackOps Industries designs, because of a special agreement. (And our own designs, of course.)

Plus, it would be too good. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 09, 2017, 01:26:52 am
Ok... so what your telling me is we need to pull a Bill Gates and steal from Steve Jobs.... ok ok ok.. I got it!

How about we call our alternative (totally not ripped off rifle) the...

U-R-A-Suka 3k1

No one would ever be able to tell. ;)

Alternatively, we could put a gun to their head (pun intended) by telling them their biggest customer is about to be completely annihilated because it happens to be a fucking death cult bent on causing havoc and are in cahoots with goof ass anorexics with a serious saffron fetish from outer space.... they'd totally believe that piece of truth.

But on a more serious question.

does line of sight psi actually work for the X-com files? I turned that option on because otherwise when I get psi... it's fucking over for the aliens.

I've noticed a strange tendency for sometimes psi attacks to occur when an agent is hugging the outer hull of a ufo. It's happened 4 times where I've had a soldier get hit with a mental attack and panic when there was no line of sight between alien and agent. There was at least twice where the agent made to panic could not of possibly been seen by ANY alien inside the UFO and all aliens where dead outside of the UFO and the agent in question was smashed in the middle of the crew coming off the skyraider.

thoughts?

oh and I totally want a 3 charge health spray.....pretty please :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 09, 2017, 01:30:11 am
Normal Psi-Amp doesn't work through walls, but the large one ("Stereo") does.

And a bigger spray is en route. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 09, 2017, 05:00:42 pm
So the stereo psi-amp allows aliens to know the position of certain soldiers even if they have NOT been spotted by any enemies? I call shenanigans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 09, 2017, 05:14:15 pm
So Meridian coded up this thing called psi vision a little while back, which basically amounts to wallhacks... I'm guessing certain aliens have gotten some limited version of it such that they can see your soldiers through walls for up to a couple tiles.  So technically, they do have LOS...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 09, 2017, 05:36:01 pm
Otherwise known as shenanigans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 09, 2017, 06:53:28 pm
So the stereo psi-amp allows aliens to know the position of certain soldiers even if they have NOT been spotted by any enemies? I call shenanigans.

Eh? No, I was speaking of X-Com psi-amps. Aliens don't use psi equipment, they have it built into their brains - well, some of them.

So Meridian coded up this thing called psi vision a little while back, which basically amounts to wallhacks... I'm guessing certain aliens have gotten some limited version of it such that they can see your soldiers through walls for up to a couple tiles.  So technically, they do have LOS...

Ah, I get it now. Yes, some aliens do have psi vision, it's a normal thing for a psionic to have...

It's not like they "spot without seeing", they just see stuff through the walls to a certain degree.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Gordonmull on February 11, 2017, 07:43:57 pm
Should I be getting UFOs in August and September 1997 or have I made a knickers of my install?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 11, 2017, 08:01:08 pm
Should I be getting UFOs in August and September 1997 or have I made a knickers of my install?

Some research yes, actual invasion no.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Gordonmull on February 11, 2017, 08:35:31 pm
Some research yes, actual invasion no.

I'm up to UFO-6 in September. At least I know it's nothing to worry about, thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 12, 2017, 11:35:04 pm
Version 0.5.5b has been released.

- Added Russian version (by Kammerer) - 70% complete.
- Fixed inconsistency with Heavy Shotgun ammo.
- Fixed some inconsistencies with Zombies.
- Fixed too many civilians in the second stage of Arachnoquake mission.
- Fixed a crash with Staff Input: Dreams of the Titans.

Yes, I promised 0.6 soon, but it turned out that I have to wait until certain vital pieces of code make it to the .exe, so please have this bugfix version for now. And it contains Kammerer's Russian translation, I'm sure he'll appreciate some feedback!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 13, 2017, 02:39:33 pm
Version 0.5.5b has been released.

- Added Russian version (by Kammerer) - 70% complete.
- Fixed inconsistency with Heavy Shotgun ammo.
- Fixed some inconsistencies with Zombies.
- Fixed too many civilians in the second stage of Arachnoquake mission.
- Fixed a crash with Staff Input: Dreams of the Titans.

Yes, I promised 0.6 soon, but it turned out that I have to wait until certain vital pieces of code make it to the .exe, so please have this bugfix version for now. And it contains Kammerer's Russian translation, I'm sure he'll appreciate some feedback!
Woo-hoo! I hope my saves won't break anything :D And I'll be happy to check Russian translation too. And specking about zombies - why Zombie and Infector Zombie have the same autopsy picture?

Well, time to report from March 1998. First two months of invasion were almost the same as previous two years (aside from slightly increased cultist activity)... and then the first alien terror attack took place. I sent my assault squad, thinking that they are able to handle it - a big mistake! I was forced to watch helplessly while my team of hardened veterans who spent last two years storming cult safehouses, outposts and bases was literally butchered by Ethereals and Cyberdiscs. It was like somebody sent an ordinar SWAT team to deal with alien invasion...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 13, 2017, 04:08:03 pm
Woo-hoo! I hope my saves won't break anything :D

Certainly not, it's just a couple of fixes.

And I'll be happy to check Russian translation too. And specking about zombies - why Zombie and Infector Zombie have the same autopsy picture?

Because I don't have two pictures. ;) They aren't really much different visually anyway, except the Infector is more greyish. Hmm, actually this is a significant difference from the lore point of view... Well, if I have an alternative image, I'll use it.

Well, time to report from March 1998. First two months of invasion were almost the same as previous two years (aside from slightly increased cultist activity)... and then the first alien terror attack took place.

Hold on, in March 1998? Not 1999? Hmm...

I sent my assault squad, thinking that they are able to handle it - a big mistake! I was forced to watch helplessly while my team of hardened veterans who spent last two years storming cult safehouses, outposts and bases was literally butchered by Ethereals and Cyberdiscs. It was like somebody sent an ordinar SWAT team to deal with alien invasion...

OMFG... Ethereals. And in 1998.
I think something may have gone wrong with the calendar, with all the changes and save updates... Oh well, at least you have some "unique experience". :P

And! Turned out I had to release an 0.5.5c, because a critical bug report came in literally 10 minutes after 0.5.5b. Naturally. So here it is. Sorry!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 13, 2017, 05:12:08 pm
Quote
Hold on, in March 1998? Not 1999? Hmm...
No no no, don't worry, I just mistyped. It's March 1999. Sorry.
But there were Ethereals anyway ;D

Quote
And! Turned out I had to release an 0.5.5c, because a critical bug report came in literally 10 minutes after 0.5.5b. Naturally. So here it is. Sorry!
Uh, thank god I didn't hurry up to download an 0.5.5b ;)

BTW, maybe I should create a new topic for my "field reports" 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 13, 2017, 05:44:36 pm
No no no, don't worry, I just mistyped. It's March 1999. Sorry.
But there were Ethereals anyway ;D

Well, you still pulled a very short stick. ;) I'll probably have another look at the races' timetable.

BTW, maybe I should create a new topic for my "field reports" 8)

Feel free if you want :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mrbiasha on February 13, 2017, 07:19:15 pm
Yes, I promised 0.6 soon, but it turned out that I have to wait until certain vital pieces of code make it to the .exe, so please have this bugfix version for now. And it contains Kammerer's Russian translation, I'm sure he'll appreciate some feedback!

Well, when you take your time your work really shines, even more than the usual amazing stuff you do! So no need to hurry! (And I would like to try to make it to really late game on this version if not finish it  ;D)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 14, 2017, 02:14:09 am
I also had an ethereal & cyber disk terror mission early in April 1999. The best option is to abort. losing tons of men and equipment isn't worth it.

Never ever engage a superior enemy on their own terms.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5 alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dioxine on February 15, 2017, 09:25:43 am
But, fuck yes.... MOAR GUNZ!!  ;D

Thank you, lately I keep making them for Solar's XCF like crazy. I'd ask for recommendations, but I learned one thing: never ask a gun freak about guns or military matters :) But I'll ask anyway: what's the most popular military used gun for the .338 Lapua Magnum round?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 15, 2017, 03:17:25 pm
Not sure about most popular for the round, but maybe this fits the bill? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AWM
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 15, 2017, 04:07:05 pm
Not sure about most popular for the round, but maybe this fits the bill? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AWM

This is a good pick, I'd also maybe choose the SAKO TRG-41. Both rifles fit the caliber, time period and popularity requirements as this was a VERY new round at the time... AI got their first, but SAKO dominated the market immediately afterward until roughly 2005.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Juku121 on February 15, 2017, 04:32:14 pm
AI got their first, but SAKO dominated the market immediately afterward until roughly 2005.

By 'market', do you mean the civilian market? Because if Wiki is right, various militaries are split between TRG and AWM as the most popular, PGM 338 playing runner-up and several bigger countries (US, Canada, Germany) doing their own variants.

Some even use both Sako and AI products, but I have doubts about anyone switching over from one to the other. Militaries don't really work that way. Then again, it's a pretty niche weapon, so some weirdness might have happened.

Edit: clarifications.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 15, 2017, 07:22:03 pm
By 'market', do you mean the civilian market? Because if Wiki is right, various militaries are split between TRG and AWM as the most popular, PGM 338 playing runner-up and some bigger countries (US, Canada, Germany) doing their own variants.

Some even use both Sako and AI products, but I have doubts about anyone switching over. Militaries don't really work that way. Then again, it's a pretty niche weapon.

Juku121,

We are talking about the mid to late 90's for this mod and not current times and you are completely wrong on this one; like ALL THE WAY AROUND and you are reading into my statements when you shouldn't and are showing your ignorance. Let me educate you.

The U.S. had a serious wet dream since the early 1980s for an intermediate cartridge between .308 and .50 and actively began trying to find a solution in 1982. The project was farmed out to Research Armament Industries where a .416 Rigby was monkeyed with and a rough action was designed and built based on the AR platform. Ed Dillion, Jim Bell, Boots Obermeyer, and Jerry Haskins all provided something into the mix. If none of those names mean anything? Look them up. In 1984 Lapua was chosen as a production partner because the U.S. wanted their projectiles because they had that European efficient anal retentive quality control while the preliminary Hornady bullets had problems. Haskins' action wasn't that good, but the U.S. decided to let the project continue but really didn't get anywhere and did the fade away in the denouement just prior to the fall of the Soviet Union.

Lapua basically being eager saw a future opportunity and took it. Lapua continued the 338 project themselves and made a few refinements like a greater taper, and web thickness.  The German company Heym then heard about this Whiz Bang cartridge and began selling a few custom '98 Mauser pattern rifles chambered in the brand spanking new .338 Lapua in 1985 and it quickly became a hit with competitive long range shooters in Europe. The Mauser Action is simple, strong, and well understood and the .338 had great characteristics but the set up wasn't ideal.

Later sometime in 1988 Accuracy International began developing the Arctic Warfare Magnum and eventually settled on chambering it in .300 Winmag and .338 Lapua. This made the AWM the first production rifle in .338... AI were there first. Now, SAKO had provided barrels for Lapua on their test guns and seeing another company from a different country get in bed with their countrymen pissed them off. So, SAKO began offering chambering of their TRG series in .338; specifically the TRG-41 and it was off to the races.

Early adopters chose first the AWM and then the more refined TRG-42 came along and tada! that's why you see lots of countries with both or with the AWM and then another rifle in .338. They bought one model, the AWM and needed more rifles in a .338. SAKO had the production capacity and price that Accuracy International did not. In the interim between the first and second rounds of buying the AWM and Accuracy International being unable to keep up production quantities SAKO dominated by simply being able to provide TRG-42s for purchase... and so some countries field both.

So, that is HOW the military market was dominated by SAKO and that is how markets work including ones that involve the military. If you cannot provide a good or services, then your competitor will and honestly in this case it comes down to the barrel... There are very few barrel makers are in Europe. SAKO is one of them and Accuracy International is not. Besides .338 was adopted and tested for CIP in 1989 but not SAAMI until 2007. Thus The availability of ammo was limited to only, you guessed it! LAPUA!, for the first 20 years of it's existence because none of the larger ammunition manufactures in the Western Hemispheres had good solid numbers from the certifying agency it considered king and no civilian market because the U.S. has had .300 WinMag since 1963. Europe was a different story...

Until after 2000 there wasn't really much choice except Accuracy International or SAKO. Then of course in 2001 everything changed rapidly as Afghanistan showed a need for what the U.S. had been harping about since the 80's. In Afghanistan, long range engagements where humping a 35lb .50 rifle was impractical at best and there being no such thing as match grade machine gun ammo drove the point home. Thus the U.S wanted a new rifle, the Canadians wanted a new rifle and everyone was totally enamored with .338. Macmillian, PGM, SIG, PGW and others came onto the scene with various militaries starting in 2001 until 2005.

The PGM 338 DID NOT EXIST in the timeline of the X-Com Files and is easily provable as Chris Movigliatti did not go to work for PGM until late 1999/2000.

Lapua laughed all the way to the bank.

**edited for clarity**
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Juku121 on February 15, 2017, 10:00:01 pm
I AM ignorant, that's why I asked. You're reading too much into my statements. ;) Nice read, though.

A few more questions inspired by your piece:

Is there a country that completely switched from Sako to AI or vice versa?

Are today's AWM users mostly late adopters then? I know that not all TRG users date back to the 90s or even the early 00s.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 16, 2017, 12:15:46 am
I AM ignorant, that's why I asked. You're reading too much into my statements.

Touche!  ;D Fuck around I came across as a douche bag.... I apologize.

A few more questions inspired by your piece:


Is there a country that completely switched from Sako to AI or vice versa?

Nope. Not as far as I know. Usually the military will use a piece of equipment until it is fucking D-U-N, the color brown done, and the issue was not quality or lack of support it was more like the military of several nations saying "Hey, can we have like 5 times as many of these... cuz we might have to shoot tons of dudes at long range in rough terrain and our .50s are HEAVY :'(  and these things FUCKING ROCK!!".

Then,

AI is like " Uhhh,..... No ??? sorry, but everyone wants our shit and people are still lined up to get their first serving, before you get seconds ".

Finally,

SAKO be like " We got shit too, and more of it for a better price, how much you want!? You Know .338 was totally made up by our bestie Lapua, right? 8)" 

So SAKO makes a sale and AI fufilled contract obligations and even though they are two weapon systems in the same role they use the same caliber and because their was no alternative... there was very little bitching.

There were switches made away from SAKO or AI to their own homebrew or to a manufacturer that could meet a large production demand.  Like the U.S. moving away from AI to Macmillian and now to Remington to fufill a gap and lessons learned in Trashcanistan.

Are today's AWM users mostly late adopters then? I know that not all TRG users date back to the 90s or even the early 00s.

Meh, no.... I'd call it a mixed bag AWM was first then AWSM. Here is a rough, but not super accurate across all users timeline.

(1)AWM, (2)TRG-41,(3) TRG-42,(4) AWSM, (5)PGM 338, (etc)All others...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: yrizoud on February 16, 2017, 02:29:13 am
If you include a gun named AWP, people will expect it to be very overpowered.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 16, 2017, 04:27:49 am
Speaking of weapons... Dioxine made a very nice sprite of VSS which I would like to add for sentimental reasons, as I really liked it in UFO: Aftershock ACM mod. The problem is, I liked it so much that the current Blackops rifle is pretty much VSS in concept. So if I do add VSS, I'll have to make it suckier, possibly too sucky for this weapon...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mrbiasha on February 16, 2017, 08:12:12 am
Well, this is pretty common thing with weapons in games. Meanwhile VSS could be very logic installment after the Groza. Give both separate type of ammo (with possibility to upgrade to alloy), lock VSS behind special research and maybe mission and it would fit nicely into Red Dawn weapon roster, filling up a long range position which they kinda lack.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Nord on February 16, 2017, 12:13:28 pm
Or, because of VSS specific, you can just make it concealable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 16, 2017, 04:23:10 pm
I'd like to see a few different guns

USAS-12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_Precision_Industries_USAS-12

VZ-58 PI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._58

HK-G11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G11

SIG 553
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550#SG_553


Oh BTW I've seen them in other mods, but where are the Single shot anti tank weapons like the LAW, AT-4, Carl Gustav etc. The RPG-7 is butt pain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 16, 2017, 09:56:48 pm
Well, this is pretty common thing with weapons in games. Meanwhile VSS could be very logic installment after the Groza. Give both separate type of ammo (with possibility to upgrade to alloy), lock VSS behind special research and maybe mission and it would fit nicely into Red Dawn weapon roster, filling up a long range position which they kinda lack.

Groza uses normal Kalasnikov ammo, so no. Alloy ammo is also out of the question, as with all real life guns. Adding it to the Red Dawn is a given though.
The only problem are stats.

Or, because of VSS specific, you can just make it concealable.

You mean, smuggled in a suitcase? :) A fun idea, I'd like to use it... But the VSS is a serious gun with auto-fire and everything, so I'm not sure it wouldn't be OP (phase out other guns). Ironically, I think a normal sniper rifle would be less problematic.

I'd like to see a few different guns
(...)

Maybe with time. Adding weapons is generally very easy if you have pictures, but doing it in a sane way is not. But I'm going to keep expanding the list in small steps.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: dorsidwarf on February 17, 2017, 12:31:03 am
If we're expanding the list, I hope there's some way to remove them from the purchasing list so that the already-tedious job of having to scroll through a dozen guns you will never, ever use doesn't get harder!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 17, 2017, 12:37:09 am
If we're expanding the list, I hope there's some way to remove them from the purchasing list so that the already-tedious job of having to scroll through a dozen guns you will never, ever use doesn't get harder!

This is quite true...

I believe reordering by availability and power would solve a lot of that... but C'est la vie.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 17, 2017, 12:42:33 am
I'll ask Meridian to add filtering by categories to the buy/sell screens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Juku121 on February 17, 2017, 02:37:57 am
I'll ask Meridian to add filtering by categories to the buy/sell screens.

Something like the 'hidden' filter from manufacturing would be better for outright removing obsolete guns. But Meridian was planning to do away with even the manufacturing option, last I heard.

Reordering doesn't really work even half as well, I can tell you from experience. And it's a lot of fiddling around for Solarius.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mrbiasha on February 17, 2017, 08:25:55 am
Groza uses normal Kalasnikov ammo, so no. Alloy ammo is also out of the question, as with all real life guns. Adding it to the Red Dawn is a given though.
The only problem are stats.


Yeah, I kinda forgot we have a whole tier of corporate weapons for upgrading to alloy ammo. I just think that it could more limited in range than other sniping weapons, but pack a larger punch, maybe armor-piercing damage. As anyone know that there are corptech and alientech ahead I think the idea is to make it some kind of narrow specialization weapon for player but  in the same feared to face in combat by him, devastating to agents at the stage of the game it may be encountered.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 17, 2017, 01:10:59 pm
Groza uses normal Kalasnikov ammo, so no. Alloy ammo is also out of the question, as with all real life guns. Adding it to the Red Dawn is a given though.
The only problem are stats.

But not all imaginary guns have alloy ammo, why the double standard exclusivity that gives nothing to the player and only detracts functionality in the face of logic?

The VSS is formidable at close range and has similar ballistics to a 300 blackout. 9x39 was designed to be subsonic and thus heavy and slow. I wouldn't add an armor penetration bonus...even though there are tungsten penetrators available in 9x39 and they apparently rock serious ass. But, I haven't shot 9x39 because I went with a 300 blackout instead because I had the bullets and load data and  only needed a barrel change.

You mean, smuggled in a suitcase? :) A fun idea, I'd like to use it... But the VSS is a serious gun with auto-fire and everything, so I'm not sure it wouldn't be OP (phase out other guns). Ironically, I think a normal sniper rifle would be less problematic.

The black ops Sniper rifle has auto shot, but frankly the TU %s are too high to make it anything more than a quirk. it still isn't that good when compared to the CAW and both suck compared to the Arisaka 3000. A black ops comparable rifle with a good aimed shot capability and auto shot would make a VSS a prize and frankly that is what the VSS was designed for. A whole line of concealable spy weapons would be nice along with a whole lot of missions to justify the expansion. HK MP5k suitcases, balistic knives, garrotes, takedown rifles etc.

Maybe with time. Adding weapons is generally very easy if you have pictures, but doing it in a sane way is not. But I'm going to keep expanding the list in small steps.

understood
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 17, 2017, 01:20:23 pm
Yeah, I kinda forgot we have a whole tier of corporate weapons for upgrading to alloy ammo. I just think that it could more limited in range than other sniping weapons, but pack a larger punch, maybe armor-piercing damage. As anyone know that there are corptech and alientech ahead I think the idea is to make it some kind of narrow specialization weapon for player but  in the same feared to face in combat by him, devastating to agents at the stage of the game it may be encountered.

Yes, exactly.
Also it should be a bit worse than the corpo weapon, since it's regular tech (if relatively new), not fancy low cyberpunk tech.

Speaking of, I also had to clean the mess with weapon names. Many weapons made by BlackOps weren't named as such, but some were, so I'm taking care of it. For example, the former Sniper Rifle will now be called BlackOps Sniper Rifle, and the former BlackOps Sniper Rifle will now be named BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifle to indicate its purpose.

But not all imaginary guns have alloy ammo, why the double standard exclusivity that gives nothing to the player and only detracts functionality in the face of logic?

Hey hey, hold your horses. :D Everything's logical, but that logic may not be apparent without spoilers.
The guidelines are:
- BlackOps weapons have alloy ammo
- M.A.G.M.A. weapons have alloy ammo
- real-life weapons don't have alloy ammo
- weapons which may not be 100% real, but on the same tech level and produced by normal companies (like the Arasaka) don't have alloy ammo

Reasons will be explained in the game.

The VSS is formidable at close range and has similar ballistics to a 300 blackout. 9x39 was designed to be subsonic and thus heavy and slow. I wouldn't add an armor penetration bonus...even though there are tungsten penetrators available in 9x39 and they apparently rock serious ass. But, I haven't shot 9x39 because I went with a 300 blackout instead because I had the bullets and load data and  only needed a barrel change.

OK, shortened range in exchange for auto fire seems OK. But I'm not sure I can make it short enough without making it ridiculously short for a sniper rifle - X-Com maps are small. I'll try though.

The black ops Sniper rifle has auto shot, but frankly the TU %s are too high to make it anything more than a quirk. it still isn't that good when compared to the CAW and both suck compared to the Arisaka 3000. A black ops comparable rifle with a good aimed shot capability and auto shot would make a VSS a prize and frankly that is what the VSS was designed for. A whole line of concealable spy weapons would be nice along with a whole lot of missions to justify the expansion. HK MP5k suitcases, balistic knives, garrotes, takedown rifles etc.

OK, but I'm not sure what the conclusion is... Anyway, Arasaka is not a good comaprison any more, as from 0.6 it will be harder to obtain (QBU will take its place).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 17, 2017, 03:04:50 pm
With high enough reactions, I find BlackOps Auto-Sniper outclasses the A3k, because it has alloy rounds, 25% more firing accuracy bonus, and armor penetration, plus the autoshot still works for 1-tile emergencies or is a fair DPS tool at ~10 tiles, just nothing in between 2 and 9.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 17, 2017, 06:40:14 pm
With high enough reactions, I find BlackOps Auto-Sniper outclasses the A3k, because it has alloy rounds, 25% more firing accuracy bonus, and armor penetration, plus the autoshot still works for 1-tile emergencies or is a fair DPS tool at ~10 tiles, just nothing in between 2 and 9.

Yep, with high enough reactions. Single attribute dependency vs multiple attribute dependency. It does outclass with your absolute best troops, but how do you get your best troops to be able to use it effectively as the A3k? You use the A3K for accurate reaction fire.

A soldier with an A3K with absolute average FA and reactions is better than with a BOAS just because of the flat 90% snap ACC. A3K soldier will hit more consistently and for good damage BOAS will not until the soldier is REALLY exceptional.

In addition to that 35% TUs to snap vs, 40% gives the same number of shots but more mobility; and 15 round mags means carrying less weight and fewer TUs spent on reloads.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 17, 2017, 07:37:05 pm
OK, we made the VSS with Dioxine; we'll see how it goes.

Also remember that with a multitude of new guns, there will be new strategies and builds. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: LuigiWhatif on February 21, 2017, 04:25:21 am
How do you start the Syndicate missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2017, 04:10:44 pm
How do you start the Syndicate missions?

You need to talk to M.A.G.M.A. representatives.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Nord on February 21, 2017, 05:57:22 pm
Need useless sprites?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2017, 06:02:28 pm
Need useless sprites?

Haha, this is great. :)

While it won't go into the main mod as such, I wouldn't mind a joke mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Nord on February 21, 2017, 06:39:33 pm
I just look into armors.rul and... well, i do not drawed this, it is drawed by self. :)

Also: bioarmor sprites in xcom colors, redacted (no gills) and as bonus - slightly redacted fat zombie spritesheet (no more flying arms)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2017, 07:54:33 pm
I just look into armors.rul and... well, i do not drawed this, it is drawed by self. :)

Yeah, I know the feeling. :)

Also: bioarmor sprites in xcom colors, redacted (no gills) and as bonus - slightly redacted fat zombie spritesheet (no more flying arms)

Much, much appreciated. Thank you!
(Although I think the zombie is fixed already. Could be wrong though.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 22, 2017, 03:15:46 pm
Speaking about guns - I've got the M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission a week ago and still can't beat it (tried this twice but lost entire squad anyway). I wonder if I should equip half of my men with Light Cannons - BlackOps Rifles are wonderful but zombies (especially these ogre-like brutes) require concentrated fire from 3-4 agents before they will go down. And you'll beter dispatch them BEFORE they will get closer, or you'll be forced to use autofire point-blank and pray. I must admit that this all keeps the difficulty high enough for the game to not becoming boring  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 22, 2017, 03:34:33 pm
Craft Railgun Tech is worth WAAAAY too much money.... Like I may joke about not needing money from the council, but for real 54 MILLION a month  at my manufacturing base.

Also, Where is the heavy Rail mini gun  :)

Where is the flying Juggernaut armor?  or the high end armor that has no bonuses or penalties and is simply good armor?

Where are the concealable armors besides the jumpsuit that utilize durathread? That would be awesome!

Have you considered an assault armor that has a shield but is powered? So like a powersuit or better with a shield? Or built in weapons?  I'd think a Heavy Blasta/ Shield with flight would be a base defense wet dream.

Anyway, have a good one!

with love

HH

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 22, 2017, 04:05:56 pm
I wrote a script to make shield items grant armor when held, if you come up with some sprites for a power-armor-worthy shield and write the ruleset for that or separating the xeno/alloy shields from the armor, I'm sure Solarius would at least consider including it...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 22, 2017, 06:47:08 pm
Speaking about guns - I've got the M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission a week ago and still can't beat it (tried this twice but lost entire squad anyway). I wonder if I should equip half of my men with Light Cannons - BlackOps Rifles are wonderful but zombies (especially these ogre-like brutes) require concentrated fire from 3-4 agents before they will go down. And you'll beter dispatch them BEFORE they will get closer, or you'll be forced to use autofire point-blank and pray. I must admit that this all keeps the difficulty high enough for the game to not becoming boring  8)

Glad you find it interesting, and that you're good sport about the difficulty! Admittedly it's not very well tested, so difficulty can be uneven at times. But everything should be doable with enough preparation.

Craft Railgun Tech is worth WAAAAY too much money.... Like I may joke about not needing money from the council, but for real 54 MILLION a month  at my manufacturing base.

Also, Where is the heavy Rail mini gun  :)

Where is the flying Juggernaut armor?  or the high end armor that has no bonuses or penalties and is simply good armor?

Where are the concealable armors besides the jumpsuit that utilize durathread? That would be awesome!

Have you considered an assault armor that has a shield but is powered? So like a powersuit or better with a shield? Or built in weapons?  I'd think a Heavy Blasta/ Shield with flight would be a base defense wet dream.

I could respond one by one, but the reality is, it's all late game and I haven't gotten to that yet. :) Right now, I am working on stuff somewhere not long after the alien invasion starts. I am aware of the unbalanced railguns, and that more armours would be nice, but... everything in time. For now it's level 2 factions (primarily the Syndicate), advanced firearms, this kind of stuff.

I wrote a script to make shield items grant armor when held, if you come up with some sprites for a power-armor-worthy shield and write the ruleset for that or separating the xeno/alloy shields from the armor, I'm sure Solarius would at least consider including it...

Yes, I'll certainly add them at some point, but it's more polishing than a crucial feature, so for now we have the traditional armour-bound shields.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 23, 2017, 06:15:42 am
Glad you find it interesting, and that you're good sport about the difficulty! Admittedly it's not very well tested, so difficulty can be uneven at times. But everything should be doable with enough preparation.
Well, I tried to give Light Cannons to four of my agents for this mission. Hell yeah, buckshot rounds make a short work on zombies (even large ones) but LC had an obvious downside - they are running out of ammo very fast. Argh ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: robin on February 24, 2017, 11:42:12 pm
terrible english overload:

Olivia and Herene were driving the black van. The road was surrounded by an uneven grassy terrain, with sparse trees and some occasional small wood: there was an UFO somewhere in there.
"How come our scientists had to research the AK-47? It's the most common weapon ever, it's even on some country’s flag", asked Herene; "Dunno, it certainly seems silly" answered Olivia.
Herene steered off-road, and the van started bouncing harshly; "It really isn't meant for driving here; sadly the Mudranger is out of gas after about 500 meters".
Then suddenly, after a small hill, the UFO appeared to their sight. It was a big shiny object, metallic-looking; the overall shape was that of a cross. Herene removed her foot from the gas but didn't break, the van slowly came to a halt just next to the unknown vessel. "Ooooh shit. We're only two people even though this van has room for six ..err four".
The two agents, quivering with tension, stepped off the van into the tall grass and reached the side of the UFO. A sudden mechanical noise resounded from inside. Olivia reached the corner of the metallic shape: "Maybe there is a door on the other side?", she muttered to Herene. She instinctively checked on her colleague and shockingly noticed that Herene looked frozen, with the eyes wide open. Herene raised her gun and started shooting around, her face contracted into an unnatural expression. Olivia flattened against the wall of the UFO; luckily no gunshot hit her. Herene then, just as suddenly as she started shooting, dropped her firearm and runned away, behind the strange vessel corner. Olivia heard once again the mechanical sound. Then she heard another sound, like air being violently sucked out of something, followed by Herene’s scream.
Olivia immediately looked behind the corner: some meters behind the UFO’s mass there was a creature, humanoid in shape and minute, like a children, but with a very big head. It was giving its back to Olivia: “Should I really take a shot?” asked Olivia to herself. She just took the shot.
The bullet hit the thing right in the head. Olivia saw the “little grey man” collapsing in the grass with a moan.  She started to run to it, like she was possessed; she passed before the whole face of the alien craft: “Herene had probably been killed right there, a bunch of meters on my left, behind some invisible door”, she thought.
Olivia was over the collapsed creature. She had just run for a dozen meters but she was panting and sweating like never before in her life. But she didn’t stop for a second, she mechanically picked up a gun-looking object and the corpse of the creature, and started to head back to the van. Once again traversing all the face of the UFO: “Herene is lying there, hidden by that metal wall, dead or worse”, Olivia said to herself.
She turned the corner and she finally saw the van. It must have been no more than 25 meters from where the alien was shot to the van, but at that time it seemed like an unimaginable distance. A cosmic distance.
Olivia started to cover the small patch of tall grass that separated her from the black vehicle: “There is no sound at all. Was the wilderness always this silent?”, she suddenly realized. Maybe it was just her sense of hearing, so focused on any unconventional sound that it was suppressing any other sound. The thought of hearing again that mechanical sound followed by the air-sucking sound, tormented her at every step.
She mounted on the vehicle, she dropped the grey extraterrestrial body on the backseat, green blood was dripping on her black suit, and she started driving.
Time stopped making much sense after that for Olivia. She remembers the van bouncing like crazy through the wilderness, then the road. As she finally started crossing other cars, she exited the trance. She stopped the vehicle on the side of the street and checked the back: the corpse was still there, silent and lifeless; she wouldn’t have been surprised if she had found the creature alive, staring back at her.
She finally calmed down. “I have to take a shit like there’s no tomorrow”. She checked again the extraterrestrial: that thing costed the life of her friend and colleague, it was an evolved alien life form, the first ever X-Com had its hands on. She told herself that it was worth it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 25, 2017, 01:11:50 am
Wow, first XCF fanfic ever. Robin, I should give you a hug <3
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 25, 2017, 05:50:46 pm
Well, I shall admit - that's what UFO landing missions are like in the early game ;D Anyway, it's really nice piece of writing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Nord on February 25, 2017, 08:44:25 pm
Solarius, can you explain a bit about 'caves' mission? Is it worth to lose time on searching single enemy in dark empty labyrinth? Because if it is just spider or something like, then ignoring this type of missions is a good choice from my point of view.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 25, 2017, 08:55:34 pm
Solarius, can you explain a bit about 'caves' mission? Is it worth to lose time on searching single enemy in dark empty labyrinth? Because if it is just spider or something like, then ignoring this type of missions is a good choice from my point of view.

Admittedly it's not really worth it now beyond the obvious treasures, being monster corpses and some semi-humorous junk which doesn't appear anywhere else. It will however be more useful in the future (there is a whole "Underdark" arc planned, with Reptoids and Antmen and weird monsters and all that). It won't happen very soon though - first I want to complete the Syndicate arc and the Cyberweb arc. Besides, that underground arc will be so much work that it's going to take ages.

Note that monster hunts will be turned off with a certain research with the future, while caves won't, so the caves will also be4 an opportunity to fight some monsters again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 26, 2017, 01:39:05 am
Admittedly it's not really worth it now beyond the obvious treasures, being monster corpses and some semi-humorous junk which doesn't appear anywhere else.
Well, for me it was a Thursdaya nice field training for my rookies;D
It will however be more useful in the future (there is a whole "Underdark" arc planned, with Reptoids and Antmen and weird monsters and all that). It won't happen very soon though - first I want to complete the Syndicate arc and the Cyberweb arc. Besides, that underground arc will be so much work that it's going to take ages.
Oh my gosh. We have cultists (and yes, a huge hello to H.P.Lovecraft), mutants (quite underdeveloped arc, btw), zombies (with a twist), aliens (well, it's X-Com after all) - and we'll get a Hollow Earth in a some point. I wonder if there are even more horrors awaiting us in the future? Space Nazis?
Note that monster hunts will be turned off with a certain research with the future, while caves won't, so the caves will also be4 an opportunity to fight some monsters again.
Hmmm. This doesn't sound very good for me but I guess we'll better wait until this will be actually introduced.

Well, well. It's time for field report. It's 9th May, 1999 and I just completed M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission (finally!). It got 3 attempts, 3+ hours of real time, 38 turns and almost all ammo I had for this mission. This time I equipped most of my agents with BlackOps Shotguns and AA Scatter Ammo, one had BlackOps CAWS, one - BlackOps Rifle and two medics had BlackOps SubMachineGuns. 46 various zombies - Great Scott! All my agents got nice reaction bonuses after this mission, just because of my favorite tactic - build a defencive perimeter around transport and wait for enemies. As for new research objects - well, new zombies are nice. Overfed fat zombie seems okay - I imagined it more like L4D's Tank but anyway. As for another subject - something like that was mentioned in zombie discussion some time before so I wasn't much wondered. But it still hurts :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Juku121 on February 27, 2017, 01:05:49 am
Some recolored sprites for Salamandrons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dioxine on February 27, 2017, 12:29:48 pm
Magma itself provides just the perfect tool to kill Zombies - the Thresher. Haven't meet a zombie which didn't go down to a single shot; works even at larger distances.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 27, 2017, 12:55:58 pm
You mean Heavy Shotgun? I choose not to use it because it's too heavy and has too low ammo capacity.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 27, 2017, 02:55:29 pm
You mean Heavy Shotgun? I choose not to use it because it's too heavy and has too low ammo capacity.

That's a shame that you haven't tried it. It really does solve Zombie problems quite handily as Dioxine said.  Since it's practically a guaranteed kill every shot, think of it as a shotgun-like launcher - you bring as much ammo as you can on a strong agent because each shell will solve a problem that would be much more difficult otherwise.  The weight and ammo capacity are necessary to balance the power.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 27, 2017, 04:02:01 pm
I understand this all but I prefer guns what won't run out of ammo in a middle of zombie rush just because you can't carry more than 1-2 mags. Maybe I'll try it later...

BTW, Promotion II and introduction of BlackOps weapons (and M.A.G.M.A. stock later) became a really major event for me - it was the end of HKMP5 era for me. I'll miss these days when my "inquisitors" (who dealt with cultist cases) could rely solely on non-letal arms and "monster hunters" were grim badasses in Armor Vests, armed with HKMP5 and shotguns. Yeah, that was a long and colorful era for my Bureau.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 28, 2017, 02:28:33 am

BTW, Promotion II and introduction of BlackOps weapons (and M.A.G.M.A. stock later) became a really major event for me - it was the end of HKMP5 era for me. I'll miss these days when my "inquisitors" (who dealt with cultist cases) could rely solely on non-letal arms and "monster hunters" were grim badasses in Armor Vests, armed with HKMP5 and shotguns. Yeah, that was a long and colorful era for my Bureau.

Ha! No doubt! Missions also take a way longer when you have to shoot the everyloving piss out of monsters to kill them. Like I had a beetle mission with 35+ of the creepy crawlies where I expended literally over 600 rounds of ammo because rookies can't shoot for shit. it. took. for. ever.

Also, the van is like the best thing ever for quick reaction teams. I at one point had 12, 4 man teams patrolling the globe  on constant patrol... living in the vans smelling like blood, body odor, and coffee for years. Those agents earned their pay, and most didn't live to spend it. my units were colorful also... so many crazy missions, so many wounds and close calls, and tons of serious spec ops professional kidnappings.

the dragonfly killed most of that, and the skyraider buried it.
BlackOps weapons changed the balance towards my agents with high accuracy shooting from the "close" assault weapon that made any rifle besides the A3K pretty much useless. Considering that it is currently comparable in damage to the gauss pistol in damage only more accurate at range and cheaper and easier to obtain and was my main battle rifle for all troops until I had RAILGUNS should show how OP it is.

Anyways... have a good one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 28, 2017, 01:45:49 pm
Quote
Like I had a beetle mission with 35+ of the creepy crawlies where I expended literally over 600 rounds of ammo because rookies can't shoot for shit. it. took. for. ever.
Hell yeah, giant beetles and zombies will make any monster hunt last freaking forever. But I can remember the one of my first encounters with beetles somewhere in African Ruins. At this point I even had no vans yet - just a car. Yeah, right, two agents (one with Colt and another with Taser Pistol) against 12-15 beetles. I was really lucky by finding a good position atop of some ladder but even so I ran out of ammo very quick and was forced to melee. Standing knee-deep in the dead or bleeding beetles and hoping to survive another enemy turn... yeah. And then they (beetles, not agents) begun panicking  8)
Chupacabras were very different colour. My first enconter with them was like "survive the enemy rush" mission from some RTS. Luckily, my agents killed most of chupacabras via reaction shots.
As for another monsters, none gave me so much problem as Swarmids. Thank god, I saw them two or three times only - and I barely killed one of them and retreated. Just becase you can't kill a freaking swarm with shotgun or SMG so easy.
But the worst news were Monster Attacks (ol' good terror missions with monsters actually). Giant beetles/spiders were okay (as long as you can consider monster rampage in the city "okay"), but shamblers gave me some hard time. And nothing was so bad as werebeasts. Fast, agressive and not so stupid like shamblers (who loved to "change their mind" in melee and go away) - nah, werewolfs/werecats are deadly in packs.
After all of this (and WTF-style zombie sightings in the Crop Circles missions) I hoped to never meet zombies in Monster Attack missions. And of course RNG was jerk enough to troll me with this when I met undead folks in some village. Thank god, there was no Infectors (I didn't even know about them at this point), or I would be really screwed.
Heh, and cultists are the story for another day 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 28, 2017, 03:55:57 pm
Thanks for sharing these thoughts! Some consideration for 0.6, guys:

1) There will be a bit less encounters with very many creatures; I felt they were too tedious. They will still happen, but less frequently.
2) All marker missions will disappear after their time is up, even if targeted by a vehicle. I felt the vanilla mechanics was too gamey and lenient. These timers are (mostly) pretty long, so even vans are normally able to get there on time, but it will probably even emphasize the need to keep squads in different parts of the globe (either in bases or in vehicles).
3) The Dragonfly will be available later than before. The current slot will be occupied by a standard helicopter with a capacity of 6 and medium range/speed (think better but smaller Airborne Mudranger).
4) A multitude of new real life weapons. A3K will be available later, its current place will be taken by QBU-88. My current personal favourite among the newcomers is the SWD (Russian sniper rifle) and the PKM (Russian machine gun).

But it's only a fraction of the changes; the list is already longer than for any previous update, and I think more important on average. It will be released after the next version of OXC (and after Meridian mergers it with OXCE+), and I also need to make the helicopter graphics. And I'll probably add more junk along the way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 28, 2017, 04:08:28 pm
2) All marker missions will disappear after their time is up, even if targeted by a vehicle. I felt the vanilla mechanics was too gamey and lenient. These timers are (mostly) pretty long, so even vans are normally able to get there on time, but it will probably even emphasize the need to keep squads in different parts of the globe (either in bases or in vehicles).

Uh, no rest for the wicked, eh?
3) The Dragonfly will be available later than before. The current slot will be occupied by a standard helicopter with a capacity of 6 and medium range/speed (think better but smaller Airborne Mudranger).

Yay, black helicopters! ;) Oh, and I found Mudrangers completely useless.
4) A multitude of new real life weapons. A3K will be available later, its current place will be taken by QBU-88. My current personal favourite among the newcomers is the SWD (Russian sniper rifle) and the PKM (Russian machine gun).

Wait, you mean RPK (ручной пулемёт Калашникова/Kalashnikov's LMG)?
But it's only a fraction of the changes; the list is already longer than for any previous update, and I think more important on average. It will be released after the next version of OXC (and after Meridian mergers it with OXCE+), and I also need to make the helicopter graphics. And I'll probably add more junk along the way.
Remind us, please, how much finished are the "story arcs" at this moment?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 28, 2017, 04:46:38 pm
Yay, black helicopters! ;) Oh, and I found Mudrangers completely useless.

Actually it's white. :) But a recolour is possible.

Mudranger is highly situational; I heard many times that it was used successfully, I used it a bit too, so I'd say it's interesting if you have a free hangar.

Wait, you mean RPK (ручной пулемёт Калашникова/Kalashnikov's LMG)?

See for yourself:
(https://i.imgur.com/dQeuVwZ.gif)

Remind us, please, how much finished are the "story arcs" at this moment?

Let me see...
Church of Dagon: 100%
Black Lotus: 100%
Red Dawn: 100%
EXALT: 100%
Strange Life Forms: 100%
Syndicate: 90% (hopefully 100% before release)
Hybrids: 40%
Men in Black: 20%
Cyberweb: 20%
Underdark: 10%
[classified]: 5%
[classified]: 0%

other: ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 28, 2017, 07:00:24 pm
See for yourself:
(https://i.imgur.com/dQeuVwZ.gif)
Oh yes, it's PKM (Пулемёт Калашникова Модернизированный/PK Machine Gun).

Church of Dagon: 100%
Black Lotus: 100%
Red Dawn: 100%
EXALT: 100%
Strange Life Forms: 100%
So Alien Cult and Mutant arcs are completed... Nice.

other: ?
Well, you forgot Zombies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 28, 2017, 07:08:31 pm
According to wikipedia, close, but not exactly the same thing. PKM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PK_machine_gun) is a 7.62x54 machine gun based on earlier designs, including the 7.62x39 RPK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK).

Edit:  Oops, missed your edit :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 28, 2017, 07:12:37 pm
Heh, and cultists are the story for another day 8)

Shit... It is common practice for me to literally kidnap 1-2 dudes and interrogate the shit out of them. It has gotten to the point that I can basically go in and abduct ALIENS right out of their own ship in 3-4 turns in a grab and go.

1. Cut the hull open
2. Stun the shit out of them
3. Pick them up and run like hell. 

But, I'm really picky... the most valuable aliens are leaders and engineers. Medics are good for a bit, Navigators are ok. Leaders though will tell you all you want to know.

Cultists are just annoying. Every month I take a trip or two out to the murder farm and murder the shit out of some cultists for some quick points. This next month in game I'm going to try to remove 4 Alien Bases... Should be interesting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 28, 2017, 07:38:16 pm
Shit... It is common practice for me to literally kidnap 1-2 dudes and interrogate the shit out of them. It has gotten to the point that I can basically go in and abduct ALIENS right out of their own ship in 3-4 turns in a grab and go.

1. Cut the hull open
2. Stun the shit out of them
3. Pick them up and run like hell. 

But, I'm really picky... the most valuable aliens are leaders and engineers. Medics are good for a bit, Navigators are ok. Leaders though will tell you all you want to know.

Cultists are just annoying. Every month I take a trip or two out to the murder farm and murder the shit out of some cultists for some quick points. This next month in game I'm going to try to remove 4 Alien Bases... Should be interesting.

Haha, the aliens are something to be feared for me. Even before 1999 UFO Landing missions were a major disaster for my agents because of superior alien weapons and mind control. Cultists can be a real pain too, but at least you have Alloy Vests (and Shields) that will probably protect your agents from gunfire (well, except "holy shit" enemies like Black Lostus Avatar). Aliens are completely different picture - even Alien Alloy armor can't help againt laser or plasma weapons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 28, 2017, 08:10:53 pm
Well, you forgot Zombies.

Righto. Zombies: 60% (though working hours-wise, more like 20%, as the next stage requires completely new terrain, and the one after that could be the same).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on February 28, 2017, 09:53:49 pm
Haha, the aliens are something to be feared for me. Even before 1999 UFO Landing missions were a major disaster for my agents because of superior alien weapons and mind control. Cultists can be a real pain too, but at least you have Alloy Vests (and Shields) that will probably protect your agents from gunfire (well, except "holy shit" enemies like Black Lostus Avatar). Aliens are completely different picture - even Alien Alloy armor can't help againt laser or plasma weapons.

Play your strengths, Avoid night missions but prepare for them  with flares, flashlights and Incendiary support.

Concealment can save your soldiers, and spotter/sniper combos moving carefully through smoke can prevent landing craft massacre.

The aliens are meh at shooting, but have really high damage weapons, but they have a distinct disadvantage or equalization with humans when engaged at range.

this combined with concealment gives a good chance of not losing tons of dudes to reaction fire and psi.

if you are really want to screw their day up rookies as reaction fire sappers work... in a brutal we gotta win way.

the Avatars panic way too easy. kill their minions and they flip out and run away letting you stun their stupid ass with impunity.

ninjas are stupid and judicious use of fire, explosives, and mines thins their idiotic "I can be dressed in black under full daylight 1 square away being directly observed and be invisible" bullshit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 03, 2017, 12:19:06 am
Here's what Dioxine and I spent most of the day on... You better like it. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 03, 2017, 05:34:21 am
Awww yeah!

That's pretty awesome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 03, 2017, 06:00:39 am
Oh, yeah now we got helis!  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: kazek on March 03, 2017, 02:08:36 pm
GET TO DA CHOPPA!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 03, 2017, 03:51:48 pm
Neat mod, I really have a thing for mods where you start with bare bones in terms of gear, it makes upgrades and new gadgets feel SO much more powerful.

One problem I noticed : In crop circle missions, gunning down the farmer GIVES 30 points, so its much better to just being a homicidal maniac then take him in.

I'm guessing this was a mistake, and its supposed to take points, like in piratez? Or is it better to hide the body of witnesses, rather than increase hysteria?  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 03, 2017, 04:23:22 pm
I noticed the same... especially after researching the farmers. It became better and easier to simply show up and shoot the farmers and leave.

Anyone found any alien electronics? like the physical object?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on March 03, 2017, 05:07:55 pm
Anyone found any alien electronics? like the physical object?

Pull apart a cyberdisc and look inside :P

Seriously, find alien units that rely heavily on electronics (mostly cyberdiscs); there are manufacturing projects that turn their corpses into electronics.  You just have to make sure the cyberdisc doesn't explode...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 03, 2017, 05:37:26 pm
Stun a cyberdisk? fuuuck. ok...

I need it for the Avenger... after that it's all over but the screaming.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on March 03, 2017, 06:12:39 pm
Stun a cyberdisk? fuuuck. ok...

Stun's one way (I suggest small launchers), explosive, incendiary, and melee damage also prevent the death explosion.  You haven't been using flamethrowers on them, have you? That's really the easiest way to deal with close-up discs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 03, 2017, 06:49:41 pm
Regarding the farmer: recovering his corpse grants you negative points, so you shouldn't be earning them by killing farmers... Unless I did something wrong.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 03, 2017, 06:59:05 pm
Railguns or plasma at range... the only way to be sure.

This run has been... interesting.

Literally been abducting aliens out of their ships for intel. Only faced 6 races. First terror site was ethereals and cyberdisks...immediate dust off; haven't seen them since. Tons of landings consisting of sectoids and floaters with a smattering of gazers and arthropods. The only terror sites I've had have been floaters or snakemen. I've had 2 base defense missions both snakemen and brutally suppressed in a few turns.  The cyberweb didn't net me any benefits so meh.

Destroyed 2 out of the 4 cults only 1 spawns anymore and the concealed weapons crap means I need like all 26 guys to do it right.

I'm swimming in resources from farming supply ships. Just grabbed a commander for Cydonia or Bust and have 6 alien bases on the map. So I'll gut a few cyberdisks and then get the electronics out of them, build the Avenger and win.

I'm curious about what the next version brings.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 03, 2017, 11:26:43 pm
Many thanks for sharing, and congratulations! Post-campaign reports are useful, and also just nice to read.

After I'm done with the Syndicate, I plan to go back to the Cyberweb arc. It should be pretty cool actually.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 04, 2017, 02:24:16 am
Biggest hurdle is the logical one of being an organization to fight aliens and showing proof they exist and then the dudes just "swamp gas" or "venus" it away... I mean we are the ones who say "Venus swamp gas", you can't snow us :) wtf

Firearms are still rough, but it will sort.

Railguns are high damage but not ultimate weapons, and the craft mounted ones net too much profit.

The craft upgrades are ok. but an 8 man team can kill almost anything with access to BlackOps gear with no sweat at all. Cultists, aliens, monsters...piffle.

the tanks are only good for defensive situations and pretty marginal at that... their accuracy sucks.

The cyber disk tanks require resources that make them unattractive in favor of flying suits and heavy weapons. more shots, mobility, overwatch capabilities and can go anywhere etc. they need love, quite honestly I don't need an armored flying lethal machine... I need a stun wagon with machine dart guns and stun bombs.

or a fusion torch and LMG tank for cutting open a ufo.

The early armors are basically crap, until the armored vest, but then personal armor states it sucks against bullets so back to allot vests until powersuits.

I'd say armor that added strength but wasn't clomptastic would be a good add so heavy weapons wouldn't fuck your stamina.

Fatigues should be a research topics from the beginning that at least offers you use of the backpack.

I think the big swing in difficulty towards the player will change with more Midgame enemies and I didn't face any super badasses so there is that.

Squad support weapons that are decent are lacking for sure. LMGS are meh and if you have accuracy to support accurate fire with an LMG then a sniper rifle is more than likely a better choice.

laser weapons for me were an after thought because copious bullets and HE got the job done and by the time blasta weapons came about I had plasma weapons.

a rocket launchers should not be a weapon able to be fired one handed lol.

I didn't use the flamethrower, but getting close enough to use it seemed really bad for agent survival.

shotguns were meh and had superior accuracy to almost all guns I used, but code is law, right?

didn't bother using Psi, but I did screen all my agents and built troops resistant to psi to handle naughty sectoids.

The vans were a great option for rapid response outmoded by the first true aircraft, not bad just kinda disappointing. I loved the awww fuck feeling of scrambling to respond to a wicked bad attack.

I only ever saw the MIB at crop circles and they died like dogs and were easily overwhelmed, I remember in a previous version fighting them from a ufo they had built with crazy weapons.

never got the MAGMA mission.

spider caves were cool but a wash as by the time I encountered my first one I had bad ass gear.

the pointless research topics that added only flavor without giving access to gear were super annoying and eye rolling as they made me feel I had wasted my time... that is a personal failing not one of this mod.

certain logical failings made me scratch my head. even police in super fun hating countries have access to rifles a UN sponsored taskforce should as well. also, seeing Civillians in certain countries at a terror site packing made me giggle.

All things considered for the amount of things I know are undone I'd give my experience a solid 7.5/10 and know this run will be way different than one next release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2017, 01:59:22 pm
Thanks for the addendum. Some of the problem you mentioned are already solved, some will be. It's a slow process, but we're getting there!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 04, 2017, 04:15:57 pm
Nope, I gain a SOLID 28 points for both kill and corpse, netting 56 total points, just for blowing his brains out.

The body TAKES 10 k$ to dispose of though...

Its actually kinda a funny balance that way, like its more convenient to destroy the witness, but at the same time, fabricating a reason for death which implicates no fault on xcom takes a lot of money to process. :P. Forging a death certificate, paying people off, ect, takes money.

By the way, just want to say I just had the MOST awesome moment last night : Attacking a cult stronghold (church of dagon) and when spraying the building with tommygun fire, a bullet nicked a barrel, blowing out a wall, then another went through the hole, hitting a missle rack. The explosion was huge enough it killed literally 95% of the force, I was standing there for what felt like a minute, watching all the bodies fade in after the kills, it felt like maybe 15 bodies, maybe more. After that, everyone left over panicked for literally 3 turns at the sight of the stronghold being blown to dust, and only 1 person was willing to fight past that.

I know this isn't a new idea in xcom, but seeing this happen unintentionally, was absolutely amazing  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2017, 04:35:40 pm
Nope, I gain a SOLID 28 points for both kill and corpse, netting 56 total points, just for blowing his brains out.

Then it's a bug after all, thought it could be already fixed in my development version. I'll check.

The body TAKES 10 k$ to dispose of though...

Its actually kinda a funny balance that way, like its more convenient to destroy the witness, but at the same time, fabricating a reason for death which implicates no fault on xcom takes a lot of money to process. :P. Forging a death certificate, paying people off, ect, takes money.

Yes, that's the general idea :)

By the way, just want to say I just had the MOST awesome moment last night : Attacking a cult stronghold (church of dagon) and when spraying the building with tommygun fire, a bullet nicked a barrel, blowing out a wall, then another went through the hole, hitting a missle rack. The explosion was huge enough it killed literally 95% of the force, I was standing there for what felt like a minute, watching all the bodies fade in after the kills, it felt like maybe 15 bodies, maybe more. After that, everyone left over panicked for literally 3 turns at the sight of the stronghold being blown to dust, and only 1 person was willing to fight past that.

I know this isn't a new idea in xcom, but seeing this happen unintentionally, was absolutely amazing  ;D

Heh, yeah, I was hoping it'd happen to someone. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 04, 2017, 07:14:56 pm
Thanks for the addendum. Some of the problem you mentioned are already solved, some will be. It's a slow process, but we're getting there!

Yup, Of course!! Bug smashing takes time and a ton of effort is expended at the same time. Besides, with RNG and everything; mileage will vary. I also  have a direct play style that emphasizes "kill the shit out of it with creative problem solving" which is probably not conducive to using all weapons effectively.

Oh, and ninja weapons being able to pierce powered armor? lol no dude. I don't care how well you are trained throwing a knife or using a sword against a piece of armor that takes heavy plasma on the regular, hundreds of bullets, explosions, fire, and what wounds the operator is fucking knife? or a sword? wtfe  ;D


By the way, just want to say I just had the MOST awesome moment last night : Attacking a cult stronghold (church of dagon) and when spraying the building with tommygun fire, a bullet nicked a barrel, blowing out a wall, then another went through the hole, hitting a missle rack. The explosion was huge enough it killed literally 95% of the force, I was standing there for what felt like a minute, watching all the bodies fade in after the kills, it felt like maybe 15 bodies, maybe more. After that, everyone left over panicked for literally 3 turns at the sight of the stronghold being blown to dust, and only 1 person was willing to fight past that.

I know this isn't a new idea in xcom, but seeing this happen unintentionally, was absolutely amazing  ;D

**BOOOM**
"Sir, It appears to be raining meat".
"Carry on"

My personal favorite for me was a cult mission where I lobbed an incendiary grenade into the buildings 1st floor on turn 1. A dozen cultists got caught on fire and ran outside in a panic to be mowed down via reaction fire ... It was a quick mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2017, 08:59:43 pm
Yup, Of course!! Bug smashing takes time and a ton of effort is expended at the same time. Besides, with RNG and everything; mileage will vary. I also  have a direct play style that emphasizes "kill the shit out of it with creative problem solving" which is probably not conducive to using all weapons effectively.

Yeah, naturally, there are different playstyles... And I can't promise to deliver for every single one of them. ;)

And yeah, balancing is hard. Especially since you often have to choose if you're balancing for the current release, or some future, planned release. (Obviously I tend to choose the latter, but sometimes it hurts the game-as-it-is-now.)

Oh, and ninja weapons being able to pierce powered armor? lol no dude. I don't care how well you are trained throwing a knife or using a sword against a piece of armor that takes heavy plasma on the regular, hundreds of bullets, explosions, fire, and what wounds the operator is fucking knife? or a sword? wtfe  ;D

Hey, it's already much better than before! :P

**BOOOM**
"Sir, It appears to be raining meat".
"Carry on"

Don't forget the umbrella!

My personal favorite for me was a cult mission where I lobbed an incendiary grenade into the buildings 1st floor on turn 1. A dozen cultists got caught on fire and ran outside in a panic to be mowed down via reaction fire ... It was a quick mission.

Incendiary grenades make everything 200% more awesome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 04, 2017, 09:43:03 pm
Yeah, naturally, there are different playstyles... And I can't promise to deliver for every single one of them. ;)

Yeah... I don't think you planned on having a guy saying "ok, I need long range accurate firepower, area of effect, and building busting capability. Well, Better go with the old A3K in the left hand & Multilauncher in the right hand commando style. Hmm I better wear powered armor too and prime
a few grenades and HE."

queue me at the Black Lotus HQ with a dude at an X intersection. Move one square around the corner; two steps total advance. Ass ton of point blank reaction fire 5 dudes. I drop an HE pack and turn around to retreat. Clusters of enemies directly behind just out of view from the intersection like 7 dudes down a long hall in clusters of 2s and 3s. Autofire the rocket launcher...7 kills. Walk back to start position and reveals ninja trying to sneak up on me. Give him a new eyehole in his forehead. make it back to my orginal location and HE goes off at end of turn.... there was another ninja somewhere in the HE AOE that got blowd up.

14 kills in a turn.

Hey, it's already much better than before! :P

Yes.  ;)

Incendiary grenades make everything 200% more awesome.

Oh yes. One thing also happened that made me laugh my ass off.

Base defense mission. Shoot dinosaur, dinosaur tries to shoot back and suddenly their is fire everywhere and dead snakemen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2017, 10:08:11 pm
Perhaps we need a new thread for "oh shit moments in XCF". ;) Feel free to make one if you want, it's great reading.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 04, 2017, 11:06:48 pm
Perhaps we need a new thread for "oh shit moments in XCF". ;) Feel free to make one if you want, it's great reading.
"Field reports" would fit better  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 04, 2017, 11:30:58 pm
Yeah, the stuff you can do in it is pretty fun.

By the way, will you add gun melee to guns? I loved this about piratez, it made the tommygun one of my favorites by FAR, even if it had shitty accuracy. Also helps I had a laugh for trying to kidnap a ghoul, and having to bash it in the face with the tommy gun 10 times just to haul it with me.

Also, is there a way to enable seeing weights / storage space on the sell screen? This would really help with controlling storage...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 05, 2017, 12:03:32 am
By the way, will you add gun melee to guns? I loved this about piratez, it made the tommygun one of my favorites by FAR, even if it had shitty accuracy. Also helps I had a laugh for trying to kidnap a ghoul, and having to bash it in the face with the tommy gun 10 times just to haul it with me.

Yes, I added just one such weapon in 0.6 (as an experiment of sorts): bayoneted SKS rifle. We'll see if it's OK balance-wise.

Also, is there a way to enable seeing weights / storage space on the sell screen? This would really help with controlling storage...

I am not aware of such an option.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 05, 2017, 12:35:52 am
Its in piratez, in "fence", it shows how much weight you have, and how much you will get after selling things. Great for seeing what the bigger weight items are, and allowing deeper meta.

No idea how he did it, but damn its useful...

By the way, black ops sniper has +25% armor instead of minus, essentially meaning the rifle, while greatly machined, fires normal lead slugs which disintegrate on armor, hehe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 05, 2017, 01:49:21 am
Its in piratez, in "fence", it shows how much weight you have, and how much you will get after selling things. Great for seeing what the bigger weight items are, and allowing deeper meta.

No idea how he did it, but damn its useful...

Dioxine came back to me and explained that it only comes up with storage limits enabled. I never noticed.

By the way, black ops sniper has +25% armor instead of minus, essentially meaning the rifle, while greatly machined, fires normal lead slugs which disintegrate on armor, hehe.

Yeah, fixed many such mistakes recently. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 05, 2017, 02:54:35 am
With the changes to some features within the XCF could we get a "mobile operations base" that is a semi tractor trailer or a cargo container. they fly, float and drive those things all over the world everyday.

the reason why should be obvious... so we can have more than 4 dudes on long term patrols. Like 8 or 10 men with HWP capacity and a very limited radar range. I'd love to post them around the planet for rapid response without making the mudranger obsolete.

thoughts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 05, 2017, 03:25:27 am
With the changes to some features within the XCF could we get a "mobile operations base" that is a semi tractor trailer or a cargo container. they fly, float and drive those things all over the world everyday.

the reason why should be obvious... so we can have more than 4 dudes on long term patrols. Like 8 or 10 men with HWP capacity and a very limited radar range. I'd love to post them around the planet for rapid response without making the mudranger obsolete.

thoughts?

You mean something like the Spy Zeppelin in Piratez? Yeah, doable (obviously), but at this point I don't have much ideas on how exactly I should do it and what for.

But I'd love a flying base, SHIELD-style. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 05, 2017, 04:14:49 am
not exactly... but let's consider the following as it exists now.

We use vans as convenient containers for holding 4 guys in limbo in the air to patrol or move all over the globe to fight monsters. XCF canon says their rented vans, but let's place that aside for just a minute.

I personally like the feeling of having my men being on call at all hours to try to kill monsters and save lives, but 4 people is not enough to truly tackle some situations... especially early on. Air craft reduce the logistical pains and eliminate the need for more than one interception base or craft so you only use that because it is easy.

I suspect you are both going to neuter the ranges on craft and increase the mission frequency soon to keep pressure on the player.

so hypothetically
early to mid game, multiple bases, teams and aircraft will be harder to manage due to their expense which the trade off is more control of engagement conditions like daylight.

while a mobile operations center is would be cheaper and give almost as rapid response with the caveat of more preparation and the inability to swap equipment easily but the upside to operate with fewer physical bases.

so we look at ubiquitous things that carry a lot of crap and are shipped all around the world using rail, planes, shipa, trucks etc... shipping containers. Hell, the Seals use them to move shit around sneakily and so do many other nations and organizations  even to move people.

I think xcom would totally be on board...hell they obviously have some great logistics as I can transfer material from Central African to North America in like 18 hours.

any clearer? or should I stop drinking paint thinner?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 05, 2017, 04:25:41 am
No, it's OK. :) Well, not much I can say right now, except that I'm not exactly sure yet. :) It'll become clear at the right time, I guess.

In the meantime, I'm finishing up the Syndicate arc. All that is left is the final mission, and I don't have a clear idea on what terrain I could use for that. Something subterranean...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mrbiasha on March 05, 2017, 10:28:04 am
Oh, a flying base would be a thing to insert into MiB arc! So that placeholder landed UFO would not be such a placeholder! And maybe you can capture it from them and use it...

Anyway, there are definitely some balance and progression issues, but I don't see how they can be totally solved without releasing 1.0. I mean Solarius has a number of arks WiP and a number as ideas only, so without them how could it be defined where should be a transition to FMP end game content? And what stats changes should be implemented? For now I can only see an increase of time limit before invasion and probably an even greater buff to aliens (who are going become alien gods by the end of all this buffing).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 05, 2017, 05:58:20 pm
Actually, I think maybe MIB should be around with alien landings before 1999, kinda like all landings are meeting with them, or at least supervised...it would also enable more gathering of MIB info, potentially...though I only got 1 ufo in those first 2 years, because chasing a UFO in a van is kinda retarded  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 05, 2017, 06:26:29 pm
Actually, I think maybe MIB should be around with alien landings before 1999, kinda like all landings are meeting with them, or at least supervised...it would also enable more gathering of MIB info, potentially...though I only got 1 ufo in those first 2 years, because chasing a UFO in a van is kinda retarded  :P

It sort of is already happening... When we'll get there, there will be more.

In other news: the Syndicate arc is complete. Excuse me while I'll douse myself in alcohol, drugs and women.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 05, 2017, 08:33:42 pm
My, my, it's 5th June, 1999 and I feel bored. Every aviable research is completed, no crop circles or cattle mutailations at all, MiB withdrew their forces everywhere after several casualties, mutant sightings became rare, zombie outbreaks almost ceased, even aliens seem to forget about invasion. The only way to have some fun for me are cult encounters - but this are only EXALT/Red Dawn outposts. My "witch hunters" are getting sick from the lack of action. I wonder what happened with Black Lotus after I raided their stronglond and killed their Avatar? And what about Cult of Dagon? Did they migrated to the seabed en masse? Geez, I miss those old good days when I had almost no rest with numerous incidents around a globe... Now everything I do except clashing with EXALT/Red Dawn is just mass-producing Durathread and Alien Alloys. Duh.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 06, 2017, 02:01:44 am
When Yankes and Meridian release the new version, you'll be neck-deep in fun, I promise. :P

BTW I'd like to share my idea for a breather mission (breather for me, not for you!) I'm considering for fun: a fan convention. The idea is to collect all those random units like superheroes, fantasy warriors etc., let them loose in a Commercial area... and spawn a UFO with Sectoids. Imagine a bunch of aliens entering GenCon, everyone thinks they're costumes, and then blam! They start killing everyone! There's screaming, panic, plasma fire, some random cosplay dudes try charging at them with swords, the entire convention extravaganza  going down in flames. Isn't it fun?
A little silly maybe, but I made 16 serious missions since last release and I want to do something fun (and easy).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 06, 2017, 02:16:41 am
Ha!

Reminds me of a book called Princess of Wands where like dragoncon is attacked by a demon and a necromancer...hilarious.

or

A scene in one of the monster hunter novels with orcs rocking out at a Heavy metal concert. do it. I'm so game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 06, 2017, 05:07:10 pm
When Yankes and Meridian release the new version, you'll be neck-deep in fun, I promise. :P
Well, I guess I could be not so much bored if I wasn't so stupid and captured some high-ranked dagonites when I had a chance. All Cult Outpost missions I'm receiving now are related to Red Dawn and EXALT. As I told before, Black Lotus seemingly went into hiding after I killed Avatar and Church of Dagon isn't heard about at all. And I wonder if Mutant arc ends up with introduction of bio-extraction or I missed something again. As for aliens - it seems to me that they saw me aborting terror mission and said to themselves: "Damn, to hell with this boring planet!" ;D

BTW I'd like to share my idea for a breather mission (breather for me, not for you!) I'm considering for fun: a fan convention. The idea is to collect all those random units like superheroes, fantasy warriors etc., let them loose in a Commercial area... and spawn a UFO with Sectoids. Imagine a bunch of aliens entering GenCon, everyone thinks they're costumes, and then blam! They start killing everyone! There's screaming, panic, plasma fire, some random cosplay dudes try charging at them with swords, the entire convention extravaganza  going down in flames. Isn't it fun?
A little silly maybe, but I made 16 serious missions since last release and I want to do something fun (and easy).
Hah, I guess you just found a good way to use sprites from this superhero costume mod ;D

And then I discovered how hilarious (and awesome) can be equipping an agent with a Alloy Vest/w Shield and Alloy Sword. What is it, modern age knights? :D Jokes aside, one-hit killing of 3 EXALT grunts is really cool. I wonder if I can compete Black Lotus ninja in melee now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 06, 2017, 06:41:20 pm
Well, I guess I could be not so much bored if I wasn't so stupid and captured some high-ranked dagonites when I had a chance. All Cult Outpost missions I'm receiving now are related to Red Dawn and EXALT. As I told before, Black Lotus seemingly went into hiding after I killed Avatar and Church of Dagon isn't heard about at all. And I wonder if Mutant arc ends up with introduction of bio-extraction or I missed something again. As for aliens - it seems to me that they saw me aborting terror mission and said to themselves: "Damn, to hell with this boring planet!" ;D

Are you sure you didn't just murder all of them already? :D

And regarding killing the Avatar... Killing the Avatar! Haha, that's a good one! ^_-

And then I discovered how hilarious (and awesome) can be equipping an agent with a Alloy Vest/w Shield and Alloy Sword. What is it, modern age knights? :D

More like WARRIORS! FROM THE FUTURE! (https://youtu.be/53HHBuz0f_4?t=35m58s)

Jokes aside, one-hit killing of 3 EXALT grunts is really cool. I wonder if I can compete Black Lotus ninja in melee now.

In melee maybe, but not in dodge. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 06, 2017, 11:52:35 pm
Are you sure you didn't just murder all of them already? :D
Nope, just raided some outposts and safe houses  :D
And I suddenly started to meet dagonites agan. Sadly, there are only safehouses with some unlucky scaly butts. Also, I managed to give Red Down another day in Vietnam with a rain of incedentary grenades. They could barely leave a house and immediatly found themselves engulfed by flames. Yeah, that smell of napalm in the morning...  ;D

And regarding killing the Avatar... Killing the Avatar! Haha, that's a good one! ^_-
It looks like I completely missed a point =_=" Anyway I'm pretty sure that these ninja-wannabe guys had more Avatars among them, just for fanservice.

More like WARRIORS! FROM THE FUTURE! (https://youtu.be/53HHBuz0f_4?t=35m58s)
Haha, exactly! ;D

In melee maybe, but not in dodge. :)
Oh well, and I forgot that these geezers can cloak =\

I guess I was tempting fate with all my complaints about being bored - suddenly missions started popping out one by one. A good opportunity to test Arasaka 3000 anyway: this gun is a real monster that is capable to dispatch most enemies with 1-3 shots (except of aliens maybe). First of all, Crop Circles made a big return - and MiB as well, but their agents are now useless - I just selled them (wait, maybe it was a ransom?). And I had a Enviromental Alert mission with spikeboars... in a farm map. Yeah, you got it right: 2x2 monsters in a maze-like map full of 1-square-wide corridors. One especially unlucky bastard spawned in a small garden, completely unable to get out of there and forced to wait until my agent will find him and zap him good with stun rods. Another mission was the Megascorpion hunt in jungle where I was throwing incedentary 'nades all around and got panicing monsters after round 4 :D
Now I received another call from M.A.G.M.A i they got lab problems again.  I guess they will probably never learn from their mistakes - just remember their parent universe  :-\

One more thing about monster hunt - Fenris Wolves are far too rare. I met them four or five times IN PAST TWO YEARS IN THE GAME and every time there was only one of them on the map. Swarmids are even more rare - but thank god for this, I don't want to meet them again until I'll get some chem sprayer or flamethrower. And Shadowbats completely dissapeared after the first encounter - I wonder if I made them extinct.
And I'm trying to imagine what Underdark arc will look like because this is more interesting than aliens from space IMHO. Giant spiders, reptiloidsReptoids, Antmen (Waspites?), maybe Shadowbats.... mmm... wishlist: troglodites, "primitive" snakemen/nagas with spears or swords, Lovecraftian ghouls maybe  8)
And now for something completely different: seems like I'm especially "lucky" because I can produce toxigun and canister gun but not ammo for them. What.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 07, 2017, 07:57:36 am
hey, is there a reason commendations aren't availible in this like in final mod pack???  I just noticed they are missing, and this is a big bummer for me...are they unlocked later, or just not added yet??
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 07, 2017, 03:11:19 pm
I want to redo them completely, as they don't suit agents at all - they are for army soldiers (US Army soldiers, to be precise).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 07, 2017, 05:36:00 pm
I finally managed to get some "The Men In Black" comic scans. Yeah, I mean that old black&white comic from the mid-90th. I wanted to get it when I was a teenager but it became possible only right now. And I found an image on the one of first pages that almost perfectly describes what early monster hunts look like:
(https://s2.postimg.org/4rj9rjpvt/image.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 07, 2017, 06:39:29 pm
I want to redo them completely, as they don't suit agents at all - they are for army soldiers (US Army soldiers, to be precise).

I think that you should. It could be a real treat to reward some of my soldiers :)


I finally managed to get some "The Men In Black" comic scans. Yeah, I mean that old black&white comic from the mid-90th. I wanted to get it when I was a teenager but it became possible only right now. And I found an image on the one of first pages that almost perfectly describes what early monster hunts look like:
(https://s2.postimg.org/4rj9rjpvt/image.jpg)

This is fucking awesome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: mumble on March 07, 2017, 07:07:06 pm
Holy crap, gotta say I think the silacoids are a bit overpowered!!! They can get 3 shots of flame off in 1 turn, and its pretty much impossible to deal with them early on... I think maybe they should have the TU cost for the flame attack significantly higher.

As for commendations, yeah : They are sorely missed right now
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 07, 2017, 08:51:21 pm
Great pic, yeah. I'd read this one!

Good call with the Silacoid weapon, it was a bit silly. I nerfed it a little. And it was done literally in the last minute, because

X-Com Files version 0.6 has been released.

- Updated the mod to OXCE+ version 3.7.
- Mission sites now despawn even when targeted by a craft.
- Added descriptions for mission markers.
- Increased penalty for firing two-handed weapons with one hand.
- Finished Syndicate arc.
- Added Luxury Car.
- Added weapons: M60, FN Minimi, SWD, PKM, SKS, VSS Vintorez, M83 Barett, Mauser, AKSU-74, QBU-88, FAMAS, FN P-90, Mac 10, Wildey, Bolt Action Rifle (all big sprites and stats by Dioxine), PSG-1, Smith & Wesson 610, Blackops Magnum, Sniper Rifle (classic), Pulse Rifle (sound by Demidekidasu), Pulse SMG, Pulse LMG, EMP Grenade.
- Added Advanced Healing Spray.
- Added extracting blood plasma from living things.
- Added missions: EXALT Liquidation, Syndicate Reactor Raid, Syndicate Assassination, Abandoned Syndicate Lab, Syndicate Secret Archives Raid (terrain by Hobbes), Syndicate Data Seizure, Syndicate CEO Arrest, Syndicate HQ, Blood Moon, Black Moon, Soul Harvest, Hybrid Purge, Gang War, Black Lotus Party, Jarhead Terror and Jarhead Factory.
- Added units: Megaworm (by Robin), Abomination (by XOps), Jarhead (by XOps), Black Lotus Footman, Black Lotus Mandarin, Church of Dagon Supporter, Syndicate Security Captain, Syndicate Supersoldier, Syndicate Walker, Syndicate CEO, Armoured Car, Snakeman Beastmaster, White Werewolf, Black Werecat, M.A.G.M.A. Minitank, various civilians (mostly armed security and such).
- Increased Sectoid armour (proportionally to their psi).
- Increased Silacoid fireball TU cost.
- Agents now receive salaries by rank (Rookie: $15000, Chief Agent: $85000).
- Rebalanced most weapons.
- Cleaned up and fixed all armours (stamina recovery, dodge etc.).
- Arasaka 3000 is more expensive and less available.
- Increased accuracy on all miniguns.
- Durathread is cheaper.
- Dogs have NV of 15.
- Streamlined Red Dawn spawns with the new random member engine.
- Added some new blocks for Farm (tractor by Bullet Designer) and Cyberweb Lair.
- Added Scarab craft for Syndicate.
- Added Secret Files.
- Added Dossiers: Gertrude Ellison, Natalya Sernovich, Tyvarius Stienburg, Thomas Erickson, Anthony Barker, Drako Aldramier, CHAD (all by Mumble), Piotr Wiśniewski (by The Reaver of Darkness), Gunter Meyer (by The Think Tank), Purple Lilly (by Dioxine) and Taman Shud (with help from ssfsx17).
- Making ammo for BlackOps weapons now requires blackmailing them first.
- Added random loot to cult bases.
- Added Monstrous Tooth to cave junk.
- Strange Life Form events can now be ended with suficient research.
- Small fixes to cultist loadouts.
- Modified tech levels.
- Laboratory is more expensive.
- New Synthsuit graphics (by Nord).
- Blasters are red.
- Added custom pictures to many natural weapons.
- Improved inventory TU costs.
- Bigger monster missions start appearing a bit later.
- Some Ufopaedia pictures converted to custom palettes.
- Fixed overly expensive Shadowbat.
- Fixed (hopefully) cave terrain.
- Fixed some routes.
- Fixed mixed races.
- Various minor fixes.

Like any 0.X version, this one is more beta than usual, so please report any bugs. And other stuff too, also good one!

EDIT: Don't forget to replace all the files (including Standard and Common folders, the .exe etc.), not just the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: HelmetHair on March 07, 2017, 10:16:33 pm
Unless I have direct control over the salaries of my troops via promotion and there is an obvious and real benefit to promoting a soldier this is not a good idea in my opinion.



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 07, 2017, 10:25:54 pm
Unless I have direct control over the salaries of my troops via promotion and there is an obvious and real benefit to promoting a soldier this is not a good idea in my opinion.

Nah, the money is not an issue. It's not X-Piratez, the differences aren't that great, and you don't have that many people in the beginning.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 07, 2017, 10:39:58 pm
With the silacoid, its not just the TU cost...its the range, the explosive radius, and the TU's. I'd consider reducing the flames down to flaregun size, and cutting the range by maybe 4 tiles too.

Silacoids were never supposed to be a ranged combatant, and its just plain unfun trying to snipe something with that much arrmor, when it floods the entire area you are in full of flame at the slightest provocation, when you need a crap ton of shots just to kill one ANYWAY. It might be doable with lasers or plasma, but with kinetic weapons, it just feels mind numbingly stupid to fight them, as even a couple TNT blasts don't seem to phase them. This said, if you made the TU cost something like 70 or 80%, it should be fine, but whatever it was before (30%?) it made it seem like it was more of a dragon than a lump of graceless mucus. I dont think such a slow, clumbsy creature could spit fire anywhere near that effectively : Perhaps with a big cost, crappy accuracy, and less range, but I imagine the silacoid, if it ever had this ability, would be more a wonky attempt to squirt its juices somewhere with questionable effectiveness, than spitting fire on you like a lama from hell.

I got an entire team (in a dragonfly) wiped by JUST them, and their crazy fire attack.

Also, possibly limit how many shots they have? Is this doable?

As for the wages, I think the numbers are very reasonable : A top brass person gets 4 x what a rookie used to get, compared to piratez where a top ranked person took an insanely hefty chunk out of your income.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.5.5c alpha: I'll Dissect You!
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 07, 2017, 10:52:45 pm
X-Com Files version 0.6 has been released.
Oh gosh, it's update time!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Slaughter on March 07, 2017, 11:03:59 pm
I remember meeting a Silacoid like in month one. Two agents in a car with pistols and shotguns. It was like a horror movie, two of them trying to shoot the monster, and retreat from its attacks.

They both ended up turning into Churrasco
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 07, 2017, 11:10:41 pm
OK, OK... I'm releasing the biggest update ever, and all I get are complaints about OP Silacoid... :P

I'll have a better look at it, but I didn't want it to stall the entire update. It's already weaker, so we have progress, right?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 07, 2017, 11:17:04 pm
Jesus christ, that sounds terrifying  :-[

Especially because pistols and shotguns LITERALLY BOUHNCE OFF IT!!! Seriously, is there a single way to kill a silacoid that early in?...maybe magnums, but besides that, I dont see a way.

This reminds me : Can we get demolition equipment like in piratez? I always did like having a sledge hammer for wall breaking, or as a very, VERY last ditch effort to break open armor. Perhaps even with research behind it, justifying the purchases as "renovation equipment" for the base....

OK, OK... I'm releasing the biggest update ever, and all I get are complaints about OP Silacoid... :P

I'll have a better look at it, but I didn't want it to stall the entire update. It's already weaker, so we have progress, right?
Sorry solairus, but it was a pretty damn traumatic experience. I did plenty of shots on them with a drone shotgun tank, agents with black ops shotguns, blackops rifles and assault rifles, and a couple TNT bundles, and NOTHING killed it. It seemed like there was literally nothing I could do, which would of been ok if it didn't incinerate me from across the map. Silacoids were always tanky as fuck, but it was tolerable since you could literally just play keep away till they cracked.

Sorry, but I think that with the change, they didn't even feel like silacoids.

What is the current TU cost in this update anyway?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 07, 2017, 11:23:58 pm
50% TUs for snap, 60% for aim.

OK, OK, I'll get to it pretty soon. I know it should be fixed, I just never got around to do it... Like with a thousand other things.

As for hammer-like weapons, I will add them, but I'm still waiting for the option of terrain damaging melee being introduced in the game. Which may or may not happen...

And this is what I'm doing right now - see attachment. (Guess what it'll be?)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 07, 2017, 11:36:11 pm
Well, grenade unpriming is a good feature but needs to get used to it. I spent all TUs twice just because I blindly pressed "unprime" instead of "throw". All this in a middle of the second M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission  ;D
I hope I didn't messed all researches... Hmmm, maybe capturing a living Trooper and Megazombie will be a good idea. Anyway, I'll report back if I'll find something odd.

Geez, I really need some sleep.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: HelmetHair on March 07, 2017, 11:48:51 pm
Just remember to eat  ;)

Sleep deprivation is a bitch.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 07, 2017, 11:54:38 pm
Looks spooky and scary...is it skeletons? Vampires?

Also sorry, not trying to beat up on ya, but it really seemed pretty glaring in terms of balance, which is why I complain so bitterly haha.  :P I think the splash size is the biggest factor, was it instead something like the scorpion SMG from piratez (lights the impact spot on fire, and NOTHING more) than it would be fitting, but the giant napalm blast with a 3 long radius mean its very easy for it to kill several troops in 1 go. Also, spitting small bits of flaming goo, which are inaccurate would actually be more fitting, than the napalm blasts

Part of my problem was just that : 3 people being burned alive in 1 turn , from 1 shot, or even fire spilling away from the impact zone, and still killing an agent

...Sorry to go on an almost 1 page discussion about it, just trying to help. :-X

 new update does look amazing however..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2017, 12:06:13 am
Jesus Christ, just take the file :P

(now aimed attack only, small radius)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: HelmetHair on March 08, 2017, 02:25:11 am
Nah, the money is not an issue. It's not X-Piratez, the differences aren't that great, and you don't have that many people in the beginning.

Why must we give them 40k upfront? Why not 10K to match their starting salary?

Considering I've gone through 6 agents in the first 8 in game days of this play through... I think this one is going to be fucking rough.

Aliens are showing up way earlier this go around as well, and through luck my first two kills have been Sectoids. With no armor, rookies, and meh equipment, a light pistol and a plasma subrifle are basically equivalent.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 08, 2017, 02:39:59 am
Say, now that there is a deprime option for grenades.. .. ... Is it possible to make a bomb defusal mission?

Maybe make a map and have a bunch of high explosives set to detonate with a timer of 60 or something, and you go around picking them up, and depriming them to save civilians in closed off rooms...

I have no idea how pheasable this is, but the idea sounds cool.

Why must we give them 40k upfront? Why not 10K to match their starting salary?

IIRC, rank is determined by how many soldiers you have. In essance, having more soldiers makes the cost ever so slightly exponentially more. I think its something like every 3 of x, you get 1 rank higher, and so on
Every 3 agents, get 1 sargent, every 3 sargent, and so on.

So unless you plan at having 50 soldiers on the first year, its not much of an issue, particularly because you need several fold more troops to get higher ranks.

EDIT : did you accidentally label some terrain as explosives? I've been playing, and randomly I shoot and theres a giant explosion...

Its pretty fucking wonky and game breaking, as a stray colt 44 round will hit an apartment complex, and randomly it explodes.

I think its that, because at the same time I never see these tiles break otherwise.  ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 08, 2017, 03:41:18 am
Sorry for the double post, but yeah, this bug is very nasty. Seems a lot of city terrain now explodes when damaged by gunfire. Be it apartment walls with white siding, concrete stairs, or otherwise, a damaging bullet will cause an explosion. I'm not sure how many items it is, but I've noticed pretty much all "appartment" terrain, steel plates on brick / steel buildings that look like prison walls, and others.

Pretty sure this is unintentional, or else I CANNOT wait to see the lore behind why apartments are packed with high explosives.

Currently i've seen this with both the glock, and colt 45, incase this is tied to guns..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 08, 2017, 07:16:04 am
Hmmm.... I think I saw some weird explosions too. Yesterday I tried to continue M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission after updating the mod and there was a big BOOM when I missed the shot and some building was hit instead of zombie. At first I thought that something triggered a proximity grenades that I forgot about but now I'm no so sure.
Wow, explosive terrain... What a dangerous world!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 08, 2017, 07:31:51 am
It was weird for me first time I saw it because I shot a thug on month 1 and he exploded...I wondered if he had a primed grenade, but then where the hell did a street thug get a grenade?!

I guess I shot the floor under him, and the floor exploded.

I was confused for a good 5 minutes

EDIT : I rolled the update back, I really cannot play this, this really butchers gameplay for me... I am curious, how in gods name did you manage to make this glitch???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: firsttefl1 on March 08, 2017, 10:49:02 am
Sorry for the double post, but yeah, this bug is very nasty. Seems a lot of city terrain now explodes when damaged by gunfire. Be it apartment walls with white siding, concrete stairs, or otherwise, a damaging bullet will cause an explosion.

The same happens if you hit a stone block somewhere in the wilderness (see the save attached - "weird111.sav").
 My lone agent was hunting for some werewolves when suddenly the very earth exploded under his feet :)

Oh, and that happens when you shoot at a corpse (save "weird222.sav" to try that out - just shoot the werewolf corpse lying in front of you with your small shotgun - and KABOOM).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mrbiasha on March 08, 2017, 11:06:28 am
ROFL. Indeed, I got the same glitch on Crop Circle mission when one of my agent shot taser to the farmer and the soil exploded pretty powerfully. We need hotfix ASAP.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 08, 2017, 11:08:45 am
Is this the reason he named the update towering inferno, because shooting a minigun at any building makes it just that?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 08, 2017, 12:48:51 pm
Is this the reason he named the update towering inferno, because shooting a minigun at any building makes it just that?
I hope this name doesn't mean a towering inferno of bugs and glitches. At least nobody will tell now that Nitro Express makes no enough BOOM  ;D

BTW I think this "made-of-explodium" bug can be exploitable for the gas leak simulation in cave missions. But first we need to know how it became possible and how to fix it. Captain, we need your help!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: HelmetHair on March 08, 2017, 03:50:23 pm
Aha! I encountered this bug too!

Tazed a ganger and suddenly the world exploded.

Sol! We're gonna need a shit load of ductape :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Slaughter on March 08, 2017, 04:40:50 pm
Don't nerf silacoids, they great!

Also LOL! Knew I did the right thing in waiting!

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 08, 2017, 05:27:57 pm
Don't nerf silacoids, they great!

Also LOL! Knew I did the right thing in waiting!

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
May I ask how you even fucking deal with them?  :o I tried simulating a battle with juggurnaut armor, top guns, against just them, and got my absolutely killed. The constant fire damage, panicking, spreading, turn based damage, ect, just seems too much, and prior to promotion 3, they are almost impossible to damage.

I guess they are "great", if you consider great to be being FORCED to pack up and leave prior to promotion 3....
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Juku121 on March 08, 2017, 07:15:28 pm
This reminds me, does anyone have any experience about other incendiaries being used against them to relate? Judging from the ruleset and Quick Battles, they should do absolutely massive morale damage, to the point that psionics seem amateurs compared to a guy with a flamethrower. I'm not certsin this is wholly intended behaviour.  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2017, 07:24:29 pm
Why must we give them 40k upfront? Why not 10K to match their starting salary?

Because it's always been 40k per soldier... But maybe I should make them a bit cheaper indeed.

Still, 10k? Who are they, child soldiers? :P

Considering I've gone through 6 agents in the first 8 in game days of this play through... I think this one is going to be fucking rough.

Well... Hard to compare with vanilla, so I'm anxious to say anything, but vanilla mortality was high too.

I'll seriously consider it though.

Aliens are showing up way earlier this go around as well, and through luck my first two kills have been Sectoids. With no armor, rookies, and meh equipment, a light pistol and a plasma subrifle are basically equivalent.

Oh well, it happens. But you don't have to challenge them if you don't want to. :P

Say, now that there is a deprime option for grenades.. .. ... Is it possible to make a bomb defusal mission?

Maybe make a map and have a bunch of high explosives set to detonate with a timer of 60 or something, and you go around picking them up, and depriming them to save civilians in closed off rooms...

I have no idea how pheasable this is, but the idea sounds cool.

Sure it's possible. It doesn't even rely on the unpriming feature, but indeed it would make it a bit smoother.

Actually, such a mission (or several of them actually) have been planned for months... Meaning I have notes on how to do them, I haven't actually done any modding yet. Shouldn't be too demanding though.

IIRC, rank is determined by how many soldiers you have. In essance, having more soldiers makes the cost ever so slightly exponentially more. I think its something like every 3 of x, you get 1 rank higher, and so on
Every 3 agents, get 1 sargent, every 3 sargent, and so on.

So unless you plan at having 50 soldiers on the first year, its not much of an issue, particularly because you need several fold more troops to get higher ranks.

The actual numbers are:

Code: [Select]
Rookie: 15000
    costSalarySquaddie: +5000 # end salary 20000
    costSalarySergeant: +10000 # end salary 25000
    costSalaryCaptain: +20000 # end salary 35000
    costSalaryColonel: +40000 # end salary 55000
    costSalaryCommander: +70000 # end salary 85000

EDIT : did you accidentally label some terrain as explosives? I've been playing, and randomly I shoot and theres a giant explosion...

Its pretty fucking wonky and game breaking, as a stray colt 44 round will hit an apartment complex, and randomly it explodes.

I think its that, because at the same time I never see these tiles break otherwise.  ???

Yeah, I heard about it already on Discord. Apparently there is some bug in the new exe. Definitely not a mod problem, since to do that I'd need to change manually each problematic tile in MCDEdit separately, then copy the files to the game... Or somehow do it through MCDPatches, and I don't even know how off the top of my head. :P

So please have some patience, once Meridian sorts it out, I'll release a fixed version (including some other minor updates, like the Silacoid nerf).

Don't nerf silacoids, they great!

No. They were unfair. :P

Don't worry, they're still extremely dangerous... Just less stupid!

Also LOL! Knew I did the right thing in waiting!

Yeah right. :D

Hope to see an update soon!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Meridian on March 08, 2017, 07:28:58 pm
Yeah, I heard about it already on Discord. Apparently there is some bug in the new exe. Definitely not a mod problem, since to do that I'd need to change manually each problematic tile in MCDEdit separately, then copy the files to the game... Or somehow do it through MCDPatches, and I don't even know how off the top of my head. :P

So please have some patience, once Meridian sorts it out, I'll release a fixed version (including some other minor updates, like the Silacoid nerf).

What I reported is most probably unrelated to this.

And even if it was related... I'm definitely not sorting it out myself as it is not my code. We'll need to wait for Ohartenstein or Yankes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2017, 07:32:13 pm
What I reported is most probably unrelated to this.

And even if it was related... I'm definitely not sorting it out myself as it is not my code. We'll need to wait for Ohartenstein or Yankes.

OK, sorry - I don't know exactly who did which part.

Should I report it to Yankes too?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 08, 2017, 07:34:29 pm
Silacoids are 100% thermal immune : Fire does jack shit period to them, and they leave a trail of fire when they move anyway.

And because they are immune, the morale is a non issue, as it only happens if HURT by it. This is why someone on the edge of a incendiary grenade stays calm, while a guy who has one blow up under him panics for 2 turns, because the higher flame damage means higher morale damage.

in short, no damage, no morale hit.

On top of that, they have thick armor, armor pierce, explosive resistance, and a decent chunk of HP. Normally it takes an entire squads worth of fire before lasers to take them down, and after, it takes an auto shot or 2 of lasers.

In short, now they are mean bastards, basically heavily armored mutons with a bucket full of primed incendiary grenades ::)

On the other side, fighting them, the fire makes it horrific. Most armor doesn't do anything against it, it spreads fast, it causes panic spirals, and can burn many agents alive in 1 go.

This, coupled with needing a dozen hits to kill, prior to promotion 1, makes them an absolute death sentence early on.. ...I think id rather face an ethereal guarded by crysalids. At least those die when I shoot them  :D

Quote
Bug in the new EXE
I see.. Well, thats one heck of a bug, but it did make me laugh, and was amusing to say the least... Maybe you could combine this effect with a bomb defusal mission, as a penalty for shooting bombs?

Quote
They were unfair

To be honest, I'm unable to really play the new update much with the gamebreaking "everything is high explosive" glitch (as hilarious as it is) so I'm unable to comment on the new changes for them. Also, maybe pushing them back slightly more would help, as prior to promotion 3,  I'm honestly unsure if they CAN be killed, short of TNT spam...... which complicates the problem of their ranged attack, given that they are clumsy, and hard to throw.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: ohartenstein23 on March 08, 2017, 07:38:44 pm
And even if it was related... I'm definitely not sorting it out myself as it is not my code. We'll need to wait for Ohartenstein or Yankes.

There were a lot of changes that went into the new EXE, from pulling in a new nightly to Yankes adding some new features, and then merging in my code.  Likely it's some strange interaction between all of these.  I don't have much time to debug right now, but I will take a look at it as soon as I can.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Yankes on March 08, 2017, 11:42:19 pm
Anyone have save that can reproduce this bug? Fast test do not show it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 09, 2017, 12:04:33 am
Anyone have save that can reproduce this bug? Fast test do not show it.

Firsttefl1 posted one here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg80345.html#msg80345
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: ohartenstein23 on March 09, 2017, 12:14:26 am
I just tested both of those saves, and no explode-y terrain for me.  This seems weird, perhaps it has something to do with compiling under different conditions?  I'll try making a windows .exe instead of the one I made for Ubuntu and see if I get it there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Yankes on March 09, 2017, 12:23:26 am
Old version of X-Files mod and with OXCE (without +) work without explosions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dreamsicle on March 09, 2017, 03:43:03 am
On my compiled Arch exe, I wasn't able to duplicate the explosion on the turn 1 save (not sure where to shoot at) but shooting the corpse on the turn 2 save does trigger the explosion. I compiled the code last night. Should I attach my exe, zip the code I compiled with, or both?

EDIT: On the turn 1 save, shooting the stones the agent is facing does not trigger the explosion on the first turn, but shooting it next turn does trigger an explosion
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 09, 2017, 04:43:09 am
That is because its tied to tile damage, I think. Smaller guns, and sturdier tiles need more damage, or higher damage rolls.

and stones have a pretty high damage tolerance, compared to say, a gas stations wall.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Meridian on March 09, 2017, 11:49:54 am
I just tested both of those saves, and no explode-y terrain for me.  This seems weird, perhaps it has something to do with compiling under different conditions?  I'll try making a windows .exe instead of the one I made for Ubuntu and see if I get it there.

Old version of X-Files mod and with OXCE (without +) work without explosions.

It happens on both OXCE and OXCE+.
Every time you fire last bullet from your gun, explosion happens.

Screenshot with responsible code attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 09, 2017, 12:17:05 pm
It happens on both OXCE and OXCE+.
Every time you fire last bullet from your gun, explosion happens.

Screenshot with responsible code attached.
The case is closed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: ohartenstein23 on March 09, 2017, 02:17:27 pm
It happens on both OXCE and OXCE+.
Every time you fire last bullet from your gun, explosion happens.

Screenshot with responsible code attached.

Hail Meridian, wizard of bugfixes! I would've never guessed that, I just assumed it was my code that was somehow buggering the terrain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 09, 2017, 04:23:05 pm
Yes, great job, thanks!

Are there any other problems apart from the explosions and the vertical node connections?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 09, 2017, 07:23:58 pm
I recall seeing a few typos in the UFOPEDIA, but I didn't mark which ones >.< doesn't help I rolled the update because this glitch was bonkers (but admit-ably, a cool code idea)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Yankes on March 09, 2017, 07:35:42 pm
It happens on both OXCE and OXCE+.
Every time you fire last bullet from your gun, explosion happens.

Screenshot with responsible code attached.
testing with debug on made impossible to detect this. I will fix it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: HelmetHair on March 10, 2017, 04:50:49 pm
oh hell what a mess.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 10, 2017, 07:21:46 pm
It is, but I think once its fixed, we will finally be able to play the new update without all the queer explosions happening.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2017, 01:12:39 am
Meridian has published an updated exe today, you can try it already. I'll release the entire update tonight.

EDIT:

0.6a fixed version has been released.

- Upgraded the mod to OXCE+ version 3.7a.
- Improved "The Thing" background music, by Dr. Crowley.
- Nerfed Silacoid further.
- Fixed a bug with X-Com entry tiles destruction.

Get it from: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ozeg5n4iwdsga94/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.6a.zip
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 11, 2017, 01:35:45 am
Sweet, hopefully I can kill a bunch of silacoids without them melting my armor now.  :P

Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 11, 2017, 11:40:39 am
All hail Yankes! And farewell to depleted explodium bullets.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2017, 12:06:26 pm
Well, I hope now we can focus on the goddamn release. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Yankes on March 11, 2017, 01:24:03 pm
All hail Yankes! And farewell to depleted explodium bullets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTbrIo1p-So
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 11, 2017, 03:05:14 pm
Haha, yeah.

Permission to speak freely, Captain? Since X-Com Files is developed in arcs, wouldn't it be good to add a sort of progress meter to OP message? Something like you posted before:
Quote
Church of Dagon: 100%
Black Lotus: 100%
Red Dawn: 100%
EXALT: 100%
Strange Life Forms: 100%
Syndicate: 90% (hopefully 100% before release)100% now
Zombies: 60%
Hybrids: 40%
Men in Black: 20%
Cyberweb: 20%
Underdark: 10%
[classified]: 5%
[classified]: 0%
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2017, 04:49:37 pm
No problem :)

Church of Dagon: 100%
Black Lotus: 100%
Red Dawn: 100%
EXALT: 100%
Strange Life Forms: 100%
Syndicate: 100%
Zombies: 62%
Hybrids: 40%
Men in Black: 20%
Cyberweb: 20%
Underdark: 10%
[classified]: 5%
[classified]: 0%

I'll put it in the first post too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mrbiasha on March 11, 2017, 09:07:52 pm
Oh my, classified arcs, already WiP! So intriguing! And so much work for other arcs already in game! Some awesome times we have ahead...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 02:52:24 am
Is there a reason theres a public / van, but no private / van? Seems kinda a no brainer we would have one..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Drasnighta on March 12, 2017, 04:09:12 am
Is there a reason theres a public / van, but no private / van? Seems kinda a no brainer we would have one..

Well, the Public is basically stating that they're taking Public Transit, and then in the end, hiring a Van...

Because that's the only way they'd be able to guarantee to get anywhere they need to, when they need to, in the semi-potentially-reasonable time they do...

...  But man, those Chupacabra-induced Insurance premiums must be hell.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 04:31:22 am
That doesn't answer my question

Why can xcom get vans when using public transit, but NOT when using a private jet? Just seems dumb, and makes it more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: HelmetHair on March 12, 2017, 04:38:33 am
Holy shit I just thought of a huge logical flaw.

We can transfer a person or any equipment in like 18 hours or less. however getting a 2 guys anywhere with a plane and renting a car can be like 3 days. we should be hiring the shipping manager to plan transportation. if he can find a way to ship tons of explosives, dead bodies, and entire fucking armored vehicles around the planet like it was another day at DHL; fuck we need that guy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 05:19:21 am
Actually, xcom uses giant vaccume tubes to transfer from base to base, which is why its faster  ;)

Interesting point, in all seriousness, but I think that shipping people is a little harder, maybe?? legalities and all... ..Plus its kinda assumed you WONT have 2 bases very early anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 12, 2017, 12:59:38 pm
Holy shit I just thought of a huge logical flaw.

We can transfer a person or any equipment in like 18 hours or less. however getting a 2 guys anywhere with a plane and renting a car can be like 3 days. we should be hiring the shipping manager to plan transportation. if he can find a way to ship tons of explosives, dead bodies, and entire fucking armored vehicles around the planet like it was another day at DHL; fuck we need that guy.
Well, we have Chief Scientist, Xenologist, Military Envoy... Shipping Manager fit here perfectly! Cue another research: "Hiring Shipping Manager"  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2017, 02:36:37 pm
Why can xcom get vans when using public transit, but NOT when using a private jet? Just seems dumb, and makes it more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.

Yes, because it is a sidegrade. The luxury car is an alternative to the van - only two people, but way faster.

The rationale is probably something like "jet too fast to get the van it time Commander, derp".

We can transfer a person or any equipment in like 18 hours or less. however getting a 2 guys anywhere with a plane and renting a car can be like 3 days. we should be hiring the shipping manager to plan transportation. if he can find a way to ship tons of explosives, dead bodies, and entire fucking armored vehicles around the planet like it was another day at DHL; fuck we need that guy.

There are limits to what I can do with a mod; this is simply how it works. But bear in mind that "X-Com base to X-Com base" is not the same as "X-Com base to the middle of nowhere".

Note that if you have another, closer X-Com base, you can transfer your agents there first and then take a van from there.

Well, we have Chief Scientist, Xenologist, Military Envoy... Shipping Manager fit here perfectly! Cue another research: "Hiring Shipping Manager"  ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/4rAZLJ1.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 10:25:47 pm
Seems the spider caves mission is a bit much early on, with just vans.  The 2 times I've done it, I end up fleaing the caves after saving the town, and still end up with a VERY hefty point hit

Perhaps, given the larger nature, there should be an "invasion repelled" bonus, or something? I wince when I get this mission, because I know I'm going to have -200 points or something, it reminds me of the giant spiders from FTL, in a sense  :P

Perhaps maybe the town could be slightly better equiped in its fighting back against it. I know it might not be on par with xcom, but what about police officers with hkmp5s, or shotguns? say, 5 spawned in on the mission...I realize its meant to be hard, but something to buffer it out would be nice, because it seems like, unless you kill the entire nest (I cannot do this with just SMGS and a van) your absolutely screwed for points.

....Maybe even a few hazmat guys with poison sprayers trying to kill them, I dont know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2017, 10:50:56 pm
Giving the civilians a bit better defences is not a bad idea as such, but then I'd have to make a new special terrain, new special civilians, ugh...

It's just like any other terror: either you are ready for it, or you are not. If you are not, you just have to swallow it. Not every horror movie ends well :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 10:55:48 pm
Point taken, and I would accept that were it not a 2 stage event

How about this : at least make civilians in the nest armed to the teeth, and maybe spawning ON the tiles you spawn, like a coordinated xcom / police effort???

At very least, I figure anybody whos brave enough to enter the nest would have something pretty powerful, OR, the nest would be desolate of humans to begin with

this honestly really adds to the problem, since if you flea from the nest, everyone inside it dies.

Alternatively, is there a way to add units to your squad for JUST a mission, like, after clearing the town, a couple cops work under your authority to help, giving some extra fresh blood, but nothing special?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2017, 11:03:10 pm
Point taken, and I would accept that were it not a 2 stage event

How about this : at least make civilians in the nest armed to the teeth, and maybe spawning ON the tiles you spawn, like a coordinated xcom / police effort???

At very least, I figure anybody whos brave enough to enter the nest would have something pretty powerful, OR, the nest would be desolate of humans to begin with

this honestly really adds to the problem, since if you flea from the nest, everyone inside it dies.

Alternatively, is there a way to add units to your squad for JUST a mission, like, after clearing the town, a couple cops work under your authority to help, giving some extra fresh blood, but nothing special?

These civilians were there as half-escaped spiders food, so I didn't give them weapons... But I guess I can give them some reinforcements, why not.

Temporary suad members are not possible though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 11:31:40 pm
These civilians were there as half-escaped spiders food, so I didn't give them weapons...
Bone clubs?

Throwing rocks?

 :)

I thought there was a bone club already...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2017, 11:37:49 pm
Yeah, but then I'd have to make a special civilian, holding a bone club, only for this mission! :D

I'll just give them more police and stuff.

(I have never, ever gotten this mission by the way, so it's hardly well-tested.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 12, 2017, 11:59:23 pm
In that case, ill give you a run down of the main things I see

First off, its mostly like normal terror, yes, but the 2 stage makes it very much 2 fold in potency :  twice the number of civilians to die, twice the blow at failing. Usually I end up with something like 16 civilians dead, which is 300 or something, then the amount of kills make it SLIGHTLY better, but not much

The caves are the worst, as its VERY CQC oriented, giving the spiders an immense advantage. I think if you could generate it so you start at the "mouth" of a cave, it would be better, rather than surrounded on all sides by spiders. Both times I had 1 agent on each side, hoped for the best, and got wrecked because spiders on all sides, and with 4 people, this is too much.

In retrospect, maybe making the cave entrance a bit more like an entrance to a bunker would be better, but with a hill going down into the cave? Just something so the player isn't absolutely surrounded when already weakened, and with no visibility. Because this is the biggest thing, the caves are so narrow and winding, your fucked if you have people with reactions sub 60... maybe making the caves more open would be better, as on average they are 1 - 2 tiles wide, and very twisting which limits visibility to something like 15 tiles out of the gate  :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2017, 12:03:48 am
OK, I'll think about it, but cave mapping is really complicated. Can't promise much at this point!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 13, 2017, 12:06:45 am
How about this ? maybe make a series of "web" walls around the cave, with a very low HP, so the player can shoot / burn them down to explore the cave??? Something similar to glass, but a different texture  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2017, 12:37:17 am
How about this ? maybe make a series of "web" walls around the cave, with a very low HP, so the player can shoot / burn them down to explore the cave??? Something similar to glass, but a different texture  :D

Sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I understand... What would be on the other side of the web, and what wouldn't?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 13, 2017, 02:26:54 am
I would think maybe the spawn would be sealed with a few "web" doors, and corridors would get a chance to have webs blocking them. So in short, at the start, many of the corridors are blocked, and the player needs to burn / blow open web to get into different room with spiders, and on the flip side, spiders would have limited paths at first, and possibly be locked into rooms even... If you took the approach of having the spawn wrapped in an area of rock, with web doors, you could even have a bottleneck vs zerg rush like scenario. at first, with MORE spiders than on the surface, but a bottleneck to make it doable / tense


....not sure how pheasable these are, or if you want to rework it, but I'm just throwing ideas.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2017, 10:09:33 am
It is doable... Much work though. We'll see how the new balance works first.

And in other news, I've finished the next zombie mission. It features new terrain and a new unit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 13, 2017, 11:39:57 am
It is doable... Much work though. We'll see how the new balance works first.

And in other news, I've finished the next zombie mission. It features new terrain and a new unit.
Oh gosh, like zombie troopers weren't bad enough? What now, Nazi zombies? Zombie elefants? Zombie soldiers with rocket laucher? Zombies in power armor? 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 13, 2017, 12:48:28 pm
zombies who have mini chrysalids as headcrabs and throw them like the infected zombie from halflife 2?

.. ...Please.. ..NEVER do this...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2017, 01:02:14 pm
In fact, it's zombies with big f*ing swords. In a dark dungeon. With most props ripped from Diablo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 13, 2017, 01:24:14 pm
In fact, it's zombies with big f*ing swords. In a dark dungeon. With most props ripped from Diablo.
Sounds like "Zombie arc meets the Underdark arc" ;)

I wonder if it would be better to start a new game because of all recent changes. As I told before my current playthrough became somewhat dull (but not a failure) since an invasion started - it's July 1999 and nothing much happens. Yes, common missions like Enviromental Alert and Cultist Activity are still taking place, but it feels like the "plot development" suddenly stopped. That's why I want to remember what feels wrong for me. Be warned - this is no any sort of insult or crititcism, it's just like "am I doing something wrong?" because I'm playing on Beginner just to test a lower difficulty level (my past experience with another game mods shows that the lower difficulties are often undertested). 
Alright, let's begin:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6a alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 15, 2017, 11:59:38 pm
Oooops, sorry, I missed your post!

Sounds like "Zombie arc meets the Underdark arc" ;)

Sort of :)
But with random treasure!

I wonder if it would be better to start a new game because of all recent changes. As I told before my current playthrough became somewhat dull (but not a failure) since an invasion started - it's July 1999 and nothing much happens. Yes, common missions like Enviromental Alert and Cultist Activity are still taking place, but it feels like the "plot development" suddenly stopped.

I don't think a new game will change much here. Except that you'll get to use some new weapons.

Does the Mutant arc end with bio-extraction or I need to research ALL living specimen to get the plot moving?

No, you don't have to research them all. You don't have to research any of them actually, if you don't want to, except for plasma extraction. (OK, you need at least one to advance... But you can use some other life forms instead, like mutants.)

What's wrong with the alien invasion? I spent a half of 1999 without seeing any UFO at all (except of this disastrous terror mission on February). Is it because of Beginner difficulty?  ;)

It's RNG mostly. But I'm still fiddling with it.

Is zombie outbreak in M.A.G.M.A. Lab a single special mission (like Counsil missions from Hobbes' Area 51 mod) or something else? I've got it twice  :o

It'll come up periodically until you advance enough.

Hybrids, Syndicate, Cyberweb, T'leth... wait, are these late-game arcs?

Depends; I'd say mid-game more than late game, maybe except T'leth.

Why I still can't manufacture or buy Canister Gun and Toxigun ammo?

You need to research Alien Gardens.

And now...


Version 0.6.1 has been released!

- Added Zombie Catacombs.
- Added new cult houses (with new loot).
- Living Megascorpions and Giant Beetles now yield some plasma.
- Radar researches are more expensive.
- Changed civilians in the second stage of Arachnoquake mission.
- Fixed missing M.A.G.M.A. Lab region.
- Fixed some Urban maps.
- Some minor Ufopaedia and string fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 16, 2017, 06:59:31 am
Oh, thanks for answering 8)

Version 0.6.1 has been released!

- Added Zombie Catacombs.
- Added new cult houses (with new loot).
- Living Megascorpions and Giant Beetles now yield some plasma.
- Radar researches are more expensive.
- Changed civilians in the second stage of Arachnoquake mission.
- Fixed missing M.A.G.M.A. Lab region.
- Fixed some Urban maps.
- Some minor Ufopaedia and string fixes.
Woo-hoo! Another update time!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Niewiem on March 16, 2017, 02:46:29 pm
Hi I am new guy here and eager to play your mod :)
I already played part of Full Mod Pack and watched some of Meridians LP for Full Mod Pack
Thank you for keeping this great game alive! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 16, 2017, 05:18:04 pm
Thanks, have fun, and feedback is always appreciated.  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Niewiem on March 17, 2017, 10:24:20 am
I did not even started playing yet but found that in changelog:

- Undersea missions now require researching a submarine.

Does that mean we are having bridge between Xcom1 and Xcom2 here? Or is it earlier than first alien invasion?
BTW did you think of making a mod that would be actual bridge between Xcom1 and Xcom2 (I mean it would cover what happened between those two) and would allow playing both continously? Is it even possible?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 17, 2017, 10:56:26 am
It's not possible to simply merge the two games without extensive coding, but this mod contains a mini version of TFTD in a form of a chain of underwater missions to thwart an early stage of T'leth invasion. You do not attack T'leth as such - it's decades before it even activates - but you do blow up some installations.
Also, Juku is currently working on making this arc bigger and more complex.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Niewiem on March 17, 2017, 11:48:01 am
Great - thank you for info!
I should start my playthrough today :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 17, 2017, 01:32:18 pm
Great - thank you for info!
I should start my playthrough today :)
Good luck! I hope you won't face heavily armed Etherials on your first terror mission *shivers*
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mrbiasha on March 17, 2017, 05:56:27 pm
Good luck! I hope you won't face heavily armed Etherials on your first terror mission *shivers*

This will never be forgotten... But I do hope new generations of commanders won't have to face it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 18, 2017, 07:29:24 am
Well, I finally beat the spider caves, so I can comment proper on it!!

first off, I kinda realize now motion detectors would be REALLY handy for this thing, as visibility is extremely limited due to the winding pathways. The stairs seem interesting and nice , but kinda wish going down them was worth doing.

Having extra hands to give reaction fire makes this much easier, just a helicopter made this much more barable... Though, it also helped I exposed a few dead ends early, to enable me to focus on the 1 direction the threat came from

spider queen is always kinda screwed on this map, a 2x2 unit with 1x1 halls everywhere is a bit easy it seems. I ended up cheesing it very easy after clearing the little guys out...kinda mad I never ended up capturing it

Points wise, its STILL a bit harsh, I think... I think killing / capturing the spider queen should give a heftier bonus, since it essentially means genocide the nest. I complete both parts, all kills (obviously) 1 agent death, all civilians but 1 died, and barely broke 50 points... I was hoping it could give more, considering all the risk involved, and the extra long mission. I mean, you completely destroyed a nest, and essentially saved a region, so regardless if the town in question got slaughtered, I think the council would still be pretty happy.

Also, at least for 0.6a, the black ops sniper can be purchased BEFORE black ops industries research is done. not sure how, but the blackops sniper acquisition research is available before then.

Also, I'm worried the gap on the AK47 and the AK74 is a bit too much. AK74 is better in all respects short of aimed shot accuracy, and the AK47 has a large TU cost for that. Seems the AK47 could use tweaking...?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 18, 2017, 08:43:08 pm
Well, I finally beat the spider caves, so I can comment proper on it!!

first off, I kinda realize now motion detectors would be REALLY handy for this thing, as visibility is extremely limited due to the winding pathways. The stairs seem interesting and nice , but kinda wish going down them was worth doing.

Having extra hands to give reaction fire makes this much easier, just a helicopter made this much more barable... Though, it also helped I exposed a few dead ends early, to enable me to focus on the 1 direction the threat came from

OK, thanks, I get it.

spider queen is always kinda screwed on this map, a 2x2 unit with 1x1 halls everywhere is a bit easy it seems. I ended up cheesing it very easy after clearing the little guys out...kinda mad I never ended up capturing it

She was smaller when she got there. :P

Points wise, its STILL a bit harsh, I think... I think killing / capturing the spider queen should give a heftier bonus, since it essentially means genocide the nest.

She's already worth 50 points, which is a lot... But you know, I'll make it 80. Because giant spiders make good headlines.

Also, at least for 0.6a, the black ops sniper can be purchased BEFORE black ops industries research is done. not sure how, but the blackops sniper acquisition research is available before then.

Damn, you're right. Fixing.

Also, I'm worried the gap on the AK47 and the AK74 is a bit too much. AK74 is better in all respects short of aimed shot accuracy, and the AK47 has a large TU cost for that. Seems the AK47 could use tweaking...?

You mean the AKSU? Well, but it's a later construction, so it is no wonder it's more advanced. It's also more specialized.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2017, 10:35:59 pm
Concerning transportation:

Does it make sense that the van is so much slower than the car? The car has speed 200 and the van 75.
You take the same plane and then rent a van instead of a car, how come the plane is suddenly so much slower?

Also, the mudranger is available right from the start because there is a typo in the ruleset, "requiresBuy" instead of "requires".
Not that it matters, the mudranger's low range makes it pretty much unusable anyway. Apparently there are no gas stations on the way to refuel...

Suggestion:
- use military envoy as required tech for the mudranger. Right now promotion II is required (if typo was corrected), so you can get the improved mudranger (needs workshop and military envoy) before the basic mudranger.
- make the basic mudranger a bit more useful by increasing it's range significantly but lowering the speed. A range of about half a continent seems apropriate. If possible: add a craft armament "extra fuel tanks" for the mudranger that increases range but reduces soldier slots. To balance it a bit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 18, 2017, 11:43:32 pm
For the AK, its mainly the cost behind it : 80 tu's for an aimed shot? most SNIPER rifles don't have that, so it feels janky as fuck trying to use the AK47 because of this, not to mention enemies rarely aim with them, due to it. It also makes it impossible to follow up an aimed shot with a snap shot, or similar tactics. Come to think of it, I generally feel more in danger fighting red dawn guys with makarovs than AK's, because this one issue.

I figure it could EASILY be lowered to 60 TU's, as this is the highest cost for the steyr aug, getting first place for "slowest aimed shot time" with an assault rifle. Even the damn hunting rifle is 70, and most sniper rifles don't go above 75, so this feels really screwy.

I mean, its still handy, especially early on when you have no hard hitting or ranged guns, but this seems very wrong that I'm more agile with aimed shots using a sniper rifle than an AK.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Drasnighta on March 19, 2017, 06:29:40 am


Does it make sense that the van is so much slower than the car? The car has speed 200 and the van 75.
You take the same plane and then rent a van instead of a car, how come the plane is suddenly so much slower?


Heh, I figured the Speed was an Average...  And you spend more time getting through Airport Security with more Guys... More time having to bribe more TSA Agents...  More Paperwork for a Van versus the Car, because you're dealing with U-HAUL rather than an actual Car Rental Company that lets you fill everything out before time


Joking, of course, but that's basiaclly how it works in my mind :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1 alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 19, 2017, 11:56:12 am
After watching some "Stuff They Don't Want You To Know" videos I've got an idea: how about some underwater missions with lake monsters? And "The Lost World" arc with a freaking DINOSAURS?! 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 19, 2017, 08:46:59 pm
Does it make sense that the van is so much slower than the car? The car has speed 200 and the van 75.
You take the same plane and then rent a van instead of a car, how come the plane is suddenly so much slower?

Yeah, it's not about the van being slower as such (though it kinda is), but the logistics involved.
Also the gamey rational should be obvious, why would you take a car otherwise?
And drasnighta also has a point. ;)

Also, the mudranger is available right from the start because there is a typo in the ruleset, "requiresBuy" instead of "requires".
Not that it matters, the mudranger's low range makes it pretty much unusable anyway. Apparently there are no gas stations on the way to refuel...

You would be surpised how useful the Mudranger is.
It is a bit of a puzzle to solve, yes, but it's intended. Just ask @Ohartenstein23. ;)

For the AK, its mainly the cost behind it : 80 tu's for an aimed shot? (...)

Yes, you're right. The AK47 is a living fossil, back from the FMP days, and it hasn't been updated properly. I'll do something about it.

After watching some "Stuff They Don't Want You To Know" videos I've got an idea: how about some underwater missions with lake monsters? And "The Lost World" arc with a freaking DINOSAURS?! 8)

Sure, gimme the sprites and I'll add something. :D

Unless you want me to use Triscene? ^_^

EDIT: Version 0.6.1b is uploaded.

- Fixed Cyber Armour available for infiltration missions.
- Fixed some captured units not recovering properly.
- Fixed BlackOps Sniper Rifle available before BlackOps.
- AK47 family fires a bit faster.

EDIT: Version 0.6.1b reuploaded, with some additional fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 19, 2017, 11:28:15 pm
Does this new version fix the pepper spray crash?

I wonder what even made it crash...doesn't seem like it would be very complex.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 19, 2017, 11:39:46 pm
Does this new version fix the pepper spray crash?

Yes :)

It had the wrong explosion animation assigned.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 20, 2017, 06:16:52 am
Sure, gimme the sprites and I'll add something. :D

Unless you want me to use Triscene? ^_^
Heh, more TFTD units for X-Com Files! But actually there are some SNES Jurassic Park sprites:
(https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/11/11166.png)
(https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/38/40863.png)

EDIT: Version 0.6.1b is uploaded.

- Fixed Cyber Armour available for infiltration missions.
- Fixed some captured units not recovering properly.
- Fixed BlackOps Sniper Rifle available before BlackOps.
- AK47 family fires a bit faster.

EDIT: Version 0.6.1b reuploaded, with some additional fixes.
Yet another update! I wish Hobbes would update Area-51 as fast as you do with X-Com Files...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 20, 2017, 09:30:52 am
Those work, but the explosion deaths look goofy as all get out.. ... Maybe I should try making a bloody one, matching the xcom art style??? (WARNING : I am not an artist)

By the way, is sofas exploding into a smoke bomb explosion intended?

On one hand, it seems goofy, weird, and out of place

On the other hand, the idea of feathers / cotton clouding a room and obscuring vision makes me laugh uncontrollably.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 20, 2017, 10:46:44 am
Which sofa?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: mumble on March 20, 2017, 12:15:04 pm
Well, love seat : one of the city maps has little lazy boy kinda love seats, big comfy red chairs, and when they get shot, they seem to spew smoke like a smoke grenade

Really its not even that bad, its kinda funny, but I was curious if you INTENDED this...

EDIT : AK47 change actually makes me respect red dawn jerks, ESPECIALLY early on : an ak47 totting ganger is now a very serious threat.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: kazek on March 20, 2017, 09:31:44 pm
Well, love seat : one of the city maps has little lazy boy kinda love seats, big comfy red chairs, and when they get shot, they seem to spew smoke like a smoke grenade

Really its not even that bad, its kinda funny, but I was curious if you INTENDED this...

EDIT : AK47 change actually makes me respect red dawn jerks, ESPECIALLY early on : an ak47 totting ganger is now a very serious threat.

True, same for EXALT HQ armchairs. They're highly explosive.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 20, 2017, 09:44:26 pm
Sorry, I'll need a screenshot to know the problem... Can't find anything wrong with raw tiles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 20, 2017, 11:44:18 pm
True, same for EXALT HQ armchairs. They're highly explosive.
Wait, are they exploding or just spewing smoke, like mumble said?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Drako^BB on March 21, 2017, 12:24:59 am
I love this mod  and FMP :)

And wants more :)

Keep up the good work

And back to game ;) .....
Title: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2017, 05:44:01 pm
At least the Mingorns aren't mine, they were made by Miguel... But I still spent so much time cleaning them. :P

Shamblers are glitchy? How?
Title: Re: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: alinare on March 21, 2017, 06:56:12 pm
Hello:

The Mongorns, and all other mods, that have been able to publish, are of free use. You can use them freely, without restrictions.
Title: Re: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: HelmetHair on March 21, 2017, 06:58:02 pm
ninja dick faces.... all of them.
Title: Re: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2017, 07:22:06 pm
Hello:

The Mongorns, and all other mods, that have been able to publish, are of free use. You can use them freely, without restrictions.

So you're Miguel? Cool! :)
Title: Re: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 21, 2017, 09:37:37 pm
Well, Mongorns are using Grey Witch sprites from Witchaven so I guess some other monsters from old-time FPS games could be used 8)

I don't even know why am I posting this  :D
Title: Re: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2017, 10:27:17 pm
Well, Mongorns are using Grey Witch sprites from Witchaven so I guess some other monsters from old-time FPS games could be used 8)

It's not that simple, since in most cases it's too apparent that they aren't isometric.
Title: Re: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 22, 2017, 12:23:29 am
It's not that simple, since in most cases it's too apparent that they aren't isometric.
Right. That's why even Mongorns are looking a bit strange to me  :) I wish I could make better sprites for them...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: alinare on March 22, 2017, 11:27:22 am
Hello
Doing sprites is not good for me. I reduced so much the ape, that represents the mongorn to fit it in the template, that possibly has been somewhat rare and evil.
Title: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste
Post by: Nord on March 22, 2017, 12:36:07 pm
Shamblers are glitchy? How?
It is not shamblers, it is all 4-squares units. On the hill slope, they sometimes put wrong sprites. It is engine bug.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: lenin-kerrigan on March 24, 2017, 02:52:08 am
Hello, i remake an old XCOM poster for review about you're mode. Maybe it will be useful for you.

(https://xren.su/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/X-Files-poster.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 24, 2017, 12:39:33 pm
Hello, i remake an old XCOM poster for review about you're mode. Maybe it will be useful for you.

(https://xren.su/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/X-Files-poster.jpg)

Yes, I'm really interested in that, but the file seems broken. Can you please reupload or link it? Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: lenin-kerrigan on March 24, 2017, 01:17:53 pm
Yes, I'm really interested in that, but the file seems broken. Can you please reupload or link it? Thanks.

.jpg - https://xren.su/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/X-Files-poster.jpg
.psd - https://xren.su/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/temp216.psd
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 24, 2017, 01:25:08 pm
Thanks. So it's the one I used for XCF Discord channel! Were you aware of that?  :D

Are you the author of this graphics?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: lenin-kerrigan on March 24, 2017, 01:33:02 pm
Thanks. So it's the one I used for XCF Discord channel! Were you aware of that?  :D

Are you the author of this graphics?

No, i don't know.
And, it's an old XCOM poster, original looks like this - http://68.media.tumblr.com/ebee6adbeccde4c8405d9a13774ae9a9/tumblr_n82i90pbsh1t5d7glo1_1280.jpg

I just removed old text, add little more ufo's and new text.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 24, 2017, 02:38:14 pm
Then it's a great coincidence, showing this is the only true poster for XCF.  :D

Thanks, I'll be happy to use it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: lenin-kerrigan on March 24, 2017, 02:59:25 pm
Then it's a great coincidence, showing this is the only true poster for XCF.  :D

Thanks, I'll be happy to use it.

Yeah, really nice coincidence.
I'm glad that it will be useful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.1b alpha: The Towering Inferno
Post by: Mobling on March 28, 2017, 08:03:57 am
Here's the artist of that poster, so that credit is given where it's due

http://margenal.deviantart.com/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 28, 2017, 06:59:10 pm
Here's the artist of that poster, so that credit is given where it's due

http://margenal.deviantart.com/

Thanks, I'll go ahead and let them know.

EDIT: Version 0.6.2 has been uploaded.

- Added new missions: Cyberweb Manufacturing (terrain by Robin) and Cyberweb Dimensional Portal (based on the same terrain).
- Added new terrain variant: Native Urban with dirt roads.
- Added dossiers: Britta Hansen, Ding Quadong and Kao Tong (by Mumble).
- Reduced Nitro Express range.
- All SMGs have a bit better autofire range.
- A bit more robots in Cyberweb Lairs.
- Some options are now enforced.
- Fixed wrong deployment on M.A.G.M.A. Lab.
- Various minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 28, 2017, 09:22:55 pm
EDIT: Version 0.6.2 has been uploaded.
I love that rapid updating.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: khade on March 28, 2017, 10:52:29 pm
Could be fun to add some sg1 in this and allow you to do some semi random missions on other worlds, both exploratory and beat up everything and take their stuff style missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 28, 2017, 10:58:51 pm
Could be fun to add some sg1 in this and allow you to do some semi random missions on other worlds, both exploratory and beat up everything and take their stuff style missions.

Maybe with time... For now I need to make just one other dimension to visit.

But I think it'd be better to make a completely different mod around that idea. Portals opening in various locations on Earth, incursions of extraplanar beings... This sort of stuff. It would definitely be feasible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: mrbiasha on March 28, 2017, 11:41:08 pm
But I think it'd be better to make a completely different mod around that idea. Portals opening in various locations on Earth, incursions of extraplanar beings... This sort of stuff. It would definitely be feasible.

Hah, Solarius you are such a resourceful person! An update after the update, so fast and already ideas for future mods!   :D

This way you gonna remake Apocalypse faster than openapoc project finishes their version  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 28, 2017, 11:48:49 pm
This way you gonna remake Apocalypse faster than openapoc project finishes their version  ;)

No, no - that's Robin's project, and he's doing a phenomenal job. ;)

(Really, go play his mod.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Dr.Crowley on March 29, 2017, 04:58:03 pm
Maybe with time... For now I need to make just one other dimension to visit.

But I think it'd be better to make a completely different mod around that idea. Portals opening in various locations on Earth, incursions of extraplanar beings... This sort of stuff. It would definitely be feasible.
Heh, this reminds me "Primevil" series... or Apocalypse again 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: mrbiasha on March 29, 2017, 07:57:43 pm
(Really, go play his mod.)

I just did and must say it's really very cool, though not so developed and polished as X-Com Files. I enjoyed it and will try to play more, thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: bluberd on March 31, 2017, 12:06:27 pm
But I think it'd be better to make a completely different mod around that idea. Portals opening in various locations on Earth, incursions of extraplanar beings... This sort of stuff. It would definitely be feasible.
Thank you Solarius, great that you want to stick to the actual X-Files concept and not throw everything into one bucket. This is what discouraged me form playing Piratez and I would hate to see X-Com Files going in that direction :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 31, 2017, 02:18:54 pm
Thank you Solarius, great that you want to stick to the actual X-Files concept and not throw everything into one bucket. This is what discouraged me form playing Piratez and I would hate to see X-Com Files going in that direction :)

Just to be clear, there is various stuff in the mod, but each arc has a limited scope - at least for now.

As for Piratez, I'm quite baffled, since there's so much still missing from them rather than too much content...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: mrbiasha on March 31, 2017, 07:50:28 pm
As for Piratez, I'm quite baffled, since there's so much still missing from them rather than too much content...

The thing with Piratez is that it is a mind-blasting mod, but it has gone a very long way from UFO itself, it's core concepts, basics. It is not bad all at all, but some people like traditional ideas more.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: gentlemanraptor on March 31, 2017, 10:46:58 pm
Just noticed something, not sure if it's a bug - on some Strange Life Form missions, I actually get negative points for artifacts. On another note, a fun X-Com Files banner!
(http://i.imgur.com/fuGeKGk.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 31, 2017, 11:37:55 pm
That's a pretty nice banner, cheers!

Hmmmm, what artifacts exactly?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: mumble on April 01, 2017, 02:57:24 am
Solair, specifically, if a civilian dies and you collect the gun... Kinda unfairly punishes, if I'm honest. This is especially true since collecting it is AUTOMATIC, if the map ends.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 01, 2017, 02:56:37 pm
Solair, specifically, if a civilian dies and you collect the gun... Kinda unfairly punishes, if I'm honest. This is especially true since collecting it is AUTOMATIC, if the map ends.

Sorry but I didn't understand this sentence at all, except something to do with dying armed civilians is unfair. Can you rephrase please?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Dr.Crowley on April 01, 2017, 03:51:06 pm
Sorry but I didn't understand this sentence at all, except something to do with dying armed civilians is unfair. Can you rephrase please?
Maybe he means that collecting civilians' guns gives him a negative score?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 01, 2017, 06:57:55 pm
Maybe he means that collecting civilians' guns gives him a negative score?

Well, obviously dying civilians give negative score... But what about their guns? Do they give negative score when collected?

If so, then it's an engine limitation and I can't do anything about it - well, apart from not giving civilians any guns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: gentlemanraptor on April 01, 2017, 08:40:20 pm
Yeah, I'd rather leave in the civilians with the guns  - I just hadn't put together that it only showed up when armed civilians died. Also, is there a way to make the FAMAS ufopedia page show up after researching its unlock?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: mumble on April 01, 2017, 11:59:21 pm
Are you saying you cannot give collected guns a score of 0?

Right now, lets say you have a map with chupacabras, and a few hunters with rifles

both hunters get slaughtered, and after killing the monsters, you get an additional -5 per rifle collected, despite the fact you are FORCED to take it at the end of the round.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 02, 2017, 02:24:29 am
Neither the Hunting Rifle nor Nitro Express have recovery points, so I have no idea what it's all about. I never noticed any sort of penalty for picking up human guns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Dr.Crowley on April 02, 2017, 06:01:32 am
To be honest, I never noticed it too. Yes, I had a negative score sometimes - but only because of those carefree civilians who ran just into the enemy and ended up dead or accidentally killed by stray bullet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 15, 2017, 02:10:22 pm
Version 0.6.3 is online.

- Introduced new damage type: ELECTRIC.
- BlackOps Pistol is a bit stronger.
- Added mission: M.A.G.M.A. Reactor Malfunction. Added info on craft weapons to the Ufopaedia.
- Added some fluff articles on aliens.
- Added paperdoll for Tasoth (author unknown).
- New Gym graphics (author unknown).
- New Hunting Rifle sound. Fixed spawning on Native Urban maps.
- Fixed zombifying robots.
- Fixed wrong ranges on some pistols.
- Fixed Catacombs entrance.
- Fixed wrong research in the Magma Missions mini-arc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Dr.Crowley on April 15, 2017, 02:13:48 pm
Argh, it seems like X-Com Files' development progress goes far better than my progress in the game 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.2 alpha: Cyberweb Wars
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 15, 2017, 02:15:48 pm
Argh, it seems like X-Com Files' development progress goes far better than my progress in the game 8)

Still way slower than I'd like...

I want to have the mod at 1.0, so I could focus on doing fun stuff with it!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: mumble on April 16, 2017, 04:02:18 pm
I notice you made a change which locked a few options in, presumably because I kept having the wrong settings

Is stuff like instant grenades, explosive height and psi level up absolutely necessary to have locked?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 16, 2017, 04:46:04 pm
I notice you made a change which locked a few options in, presumably because I kept having the wrong settings

Yes, although it's an older change.

Is stuff like instant grenades, explosive height and psi level up absolutely necessary to have locked?

Instant grenades and psi level up are effectively cheats, the mod was not balanced for them (neither is vanilla). I cannot allow them - if you want them, make an unofficial mod.
Explosive height is a bit different; height 2 is simply the only setting that doesn't give you stupid results. Flat explosions can sometimes be cheaty (like dropping HEs from air), and sometimes make explosives useless (like against flying units). Height 3 is too high (egg-shaped explosions). Height 2 gives most spherical explosions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: JeyP on April 17, 2017, 12:54:52 am
Really Sol? Really? Don't act like kid who thinks that his way it's only right way. You can write abo preferable options to choose but don't force them on people. I like instant grenades, know their advantages and i try not to abuse them. If you are so concerned about cheating you should remove granades and explosives entirely becouse you can cheat with that option turned off to. If someone want to cheat he will find the way anyway beside it's single player game ffs. Let everyone decide for themselves how they want to play. Freedom of choice™
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 17, 2017, 01:18:16 am
Really Sol? Really? Don't act like kid who thinks that his way it's only right way. You can write abo preferable options to choose but don't force them on people. I like instant grenades, know their advantages and i try not to abuse them. If you are so concerned about cheating you should remove granades and explosives entirely becouse you can cheat with that option turned off to. If someone want to cheat he will find the way anyway beside it's single player game ffs. Let everyone decide for themselves how they want to play. Freedom of choice™

No. I write the mod, you play my way. Not because I am hungry for power, but because that's how all games are made. That's why certain things are forbidden in any game. Unless you write your own mod to change it, which takes like 30 seconds, and I'm totally cool with that, but then you will be playing something else.

Besides, you would be surprised how many people just don't read instructions, ever.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Meridian on April 17, 2017, 12:48:40 pm
Really Sol? Really? Don't act like kid who thinks that his way it's only right way. You can write abo preferable options to choose but don't force them on people. I like instant grenades, know their advantages and i try not to abuse them. If you are so concerned about cheating you should remove granades and explosives entirely becouse you can cheat with that option turned off to. If someone want to cheat he will find the way anyway beside it's single player game ffs. Let everyone decide for themselves how they want to play. Freedom of choice™

I basically agree with everything you wrote (except the "kid" part), but...
... instant grenades should never have been a user option, they should have been a mod.

We have 99.998% of game mechanics in rulesets and 0.002% in user options... and the only reason is (as far as I can understand) that these options were done very very long ago... before modding was so prominent. If you look at any younger built-in vanilla "tweaks" (e.g. unlimited waypoints, tftd damage, alien pick up weapons, and so on...), they are all done as optional mods, not as user options.

If instant grenades were done this way, we wouldn't be having this discussion...
... I mean there is no difference between "instant grenades and non-instant grenades" vs. "sectoids with 30 hp and sectoids with 60 hp".
And nobody complains that they can't change sectoid's hp via user options...

That said, I'm sure Solarius will be adding (if not added already) instant grenades to his mod... similar to let's say "Black Powder Bombs" in PirateZ... but to balance them out, addition of instant effect will most probably result in removal of some other feature; for example smaller range.

PS: Even the vanilla devs said (multiple times) there are too many user options... and I wouldn't be surprised, if they were all removed in the future and replaced by ruleset... so that we can finally have only real user options in user options... and move all game mechanics to where they belong.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: mumble on April 17, 2017, 02:48:51 pm
Instant explosives certainly would be nice : molotovs and impact grenades.. and yes, molotovs I could see having a good niche compared to the flare gun, considering it uses throwing, has a wider range of arcs, ect.

...speaking of which, flare gun has terrible accuracy : does that reflect reality? it seems like it cannot shoot straight at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 17, 2017, 05:28:40 pm
Yes, exactly what Meridian said... Some options are closely tied to gameplay and therefore should be set by ruleset.

To be honest, I don't know if I'll add Piratez bombs... I might, but no such plans yet. :)

...speaking of which, flare gun has terrible accuracy : does that reflect reality? it seems like it cannot shoot straight at all.

Well, it's an approximation of the fact that 1) it's inherently inaccurate compared to combat pistols and 2) it's reasonably possibly to simply dodge these flares. Sure, a simplification.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: mrbiasha on April 17, 2017, 07:39:50 pm
As always a much appreciated update, though not a very big one. And I'm sure that no one will protest if you start to put more work to your modification, but I do hope that you will never start rushing yourself into it. Anything only good while the person doing it enjoys the process.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: JeyP on April 18, 2017, 01:10:02 pm
No. I write the mod, you play my way. Not because I am hungry for power, but because that's how all games are made. That's why certain things are forbidden in any game. Unless you write your own mod to change it, which takes like 30 seconds, and I'm totally cool with that, but then you will be playing something else.

Besides, you would be surprised how many people just don't read instructions, ever.

This is exacly one of the reasons way mod exist in the first play, people don't want to play in a way someone else force them to play. I would not complain if there no such options already in the game but there are and it's just wrong to block them. Don't treat us or rather me becouse i'm speak only for myself, like monkey that you are obliged to hit with a stick whenever is trying to grab that bannana he likes :P For you it's 30 sec for me it's 1 hour or more trying to find that option in text files and would rather play the mod in that time. In the end it's your mod and ofcourse you can do whatever you want with it but i would be obliged if you could send me file with unblocked in game options in pm. Thanks.

I basically agree with everything you wrote (except the "kid" part), but...
... instant grenades should never have been a user option, they should have been a mod.

This was just an example i did not mean that he is a kid.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2017, 01:25:19 pm
This is exacly one of the reasons way mod exist in the first play, people don't want to play in a way someone else force them to play. I would not complain if there no such options already in the game but there are and it's just wrong to block them. Don't treat us or rather me becouse i'm speak only for myself, like monkey that you are obliged to hit with a stick whenever is trying to grab that bannana he likes :P For you it's 30 sec for me it's 1 hour or more trying to find that option in text files and would rather play the mod in that time. In the end it's your mod and ofcourse you can do whatever you want with it but i would be obliged if you could send me file with unblocked in game options in pm.

You don't have to agree with me, but you should at least read the response. Meridian explained very well why it is so. It is not wrong to block an option, unless setting some armour value for unit X is also wrong.
It's not that I don't want to respond, but honestly, I have no idea what you want from me (apart from writing a cheat mod of some sort, which I can do if you tell me what you want, because I'm such a nice guy).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Dr.Crowley on April 18, 2017, 02:20:33 pm
Sol, something weird happened with your post - you words are merged with the quote.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2017, 02:39:42 pm
Sol, something weird happened with your post - you words are merged with the quote.

Oops, posting from a phone is hard. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: mumble on April 18, 2017, 10:28:37 pm
what prompted the sound change for the hunting rifle?...its a bit wonky, using a grenade launcher sound for a rifle...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 19, 2017, 12:09:43 am
what prompted the sound change for the hunting rifle?...its a bit wonky, using a grenade launcher sound for a rifle...

Grenade launcher? I thought it was perfect. :(

I'll check again, because one of us is clearly wrong. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: dessfoxx on April 29, 2017, 12:53:05 am
This might be a dumb question, but I can't seem to use my starting gym. Am I missing something? I've played PirateZ, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept, but I can't find a way to train my agents. Attached my save file in case it's needed.

--- posts merged ---

This might be a dumb question, but I can't seem to use my starting gym. Am I missing something? I've played PirateZ, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept, but I can't find a way to train my agents. Attached my save file in case it's needed.
Ok never mind I figured it out. The default training gym for this mod uses the feature for psi-training from vanilla where you can only assign people at the beginning of the month. I switched the option for "psi-training at any-time" and this lets me take people in and out of training at will.
You may want to consider making this option always on for the mod, unless for balancing reasons you don't want to have people cycling there soldiers in and out fluidly.
It also meant I couldn't train anybody for the first month.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: HelmetHair on April 29, 2017, 09:26:47 pm
Stat accruals from the Gym are not monthly. Cycling in and out is to be expected as you cycle in Rookies and cycle out hard bitten badasses.

I personally began a program of selective hiring for bravery followed by 3 months of gym time. Followed by assignment to a team. I abused the hell out of the Van and flying Mudranger like this....

Step one: Have a shit ton of vans
Step Two: Load vans with badasses and gear
Step Three: Send Vans out to Patrol with at least two per continent.
Step Four:???
Step Five: Profit

I'd have teams out for a month at a time coming home to rearm and unload wounded before being placed back out in it. By the time I had something better than MP5s I had over 150 agents in 12+ vans and 5 mudrangers for brush fires and major events. Plus. always keep a free hangar open somewhere so if you have to do an upgrade rearm or drop off loot or wounded you could direct them to the nearest base via transfers rather than half way around the world. Especially important if you have to scrub a mission. Losing fucking DAYS of operation time for a dust off sucks.

Then every so often you hand pick a team of absolute cracker jack nut job ass kickers for a strike team of REALLY hard missions and play merry hell. Missions like Black Lotus Bases or Headquarters where your only real way to win is judicious use of extreme prejudice via HE and HMG. Also remember that you don't have to kill them all to accomplish the mission.

I actually lost a mission with a +700 score because I'd utterly shot the fuck out of so many dudes at CQB dump mag ranges outnumbered 7 to 1.

Good LUCK!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Eddie on April 30, 2017, 11:35:02 am
Why not get helicopters? Military Envoy -> Basic Flight Training -> Helicopter

Or Do you use the radar of the vans to spot Ufos?

Van rent is cheap enough that you can have two per continent, but if you fill them up with agents as well, thier salaries will bankrupt you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 01, 2017, 12:11:09 pm
You may want to consider making this option always on for the mod, unless for balancing reasons you don't want to have people cycling there soldiers in and out fluidly.

I only blocked options that I consider game-breaking. Training mode is not really that important, so why not let people play as they want?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.3 alpha: Super Electric
Post by: dessfoxx on May 01, 2017, 05:54:37 pm
If you feel it's not important that's fine, but I will just point out that not having that option will leave you at a disadvantage that is quite real, and it certainly was confusing for me when I started the mod, as I didn't know why I couldn't get people training. You also miss out on training for the first month, which isn't huge, but it is a thing. Perhaps at least note it in the mod readme so that others won't be confused by it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 07, 2017, 05:55:14 pm
If you feel it's not important that's fine, but I will just point out that not having that option will leave you at a disadvantage that is quite real, and it certainly was confusing for me when I started the mod, as I didn't know why I couldn't get people training. You also miss out on training for the first month, which isn't huge, but it is a thing. Perhaps at least note it in the mod readme so that others won't be confused by it.

Perhaps you're right. I'll set it as "train anytime".

EDIT:

Version 0.6.4 has been released.

- Added close quarters combat, by Ohartenstein23 (with new OXCE+ version).
- Moved the clock back to 30.12.1996.
- New Faction: Cult of Apocalypse.
- New mission: Cult of Apocalypse Town Cleanup.
- New weapons: UAC Shotgun (bigob by Carbon Dioxide), UAC SMG, UAC Chaingun, UAC Rifle, UAC Rocket Launcher, UAC Nailgun, Alien Laser Cannon (Alien Laser Rifle's big brother).
- Added Cell Phone.
- New civilian types: Priest (collab with Dioxine), Male Doctor, Female Doctor.
- All lasers (except alien lasers), gauss weapons and railguns are heavier.
- Decreased kneeling bonus for pistols and one-handed SMGs.
- Better NV on MiBs.
- Added Interceptor map for fighters (by NeoWorm).
- Fixed some items available prematurely.
- Fixed Catacombs map (thanks to Meridian and Dioxine).
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mrbiasha on May 08, 2017, 08:30:28 am
Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Dr.Crowley on May 08, 2017, 09:51:34 am
OMG, Sol, you're incredible! Dunno if I'll can play now (because I've got a new job and have almost no time to play OXC) but I'm happy to see your mod alive and evolving.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on May 08, 2017, 06:23:55 pm
Is the attached message part of the new CQC system you mentioned?  It seems to result in shots missing if you are standing right next to an enemy.  I saw it on NPCs a few times before I experienced it myself, and until I saw the message I thought it was a bug.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 08, 2017, 06:55:01 pm
Is the attached message part of the new CQC system you mentioned?  It seems to result in shots missing if you are standing right next to an enemy.  I saw it on NPCs a few times before I experienced it myself, and until I saw the message I thought it was a bug.

Oops, my bad. Yes, it should be a message stating that you failed close combat test and the shot went in some random direction due to grappling, dodging and general hand-to-hand shenanigans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Lohland on May 10, 2017, 11:37:55 pm
A problem was detected:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 11, 2017, 12:03:45 am
Damn! Such an old thing, and never discovered!

Thanks, here's a hotfix... Just replace the file.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Lohland on May 11, 2017, 06:44:49 am
Thank you for your promptness
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Lohland on May 15, 2017, 06:53:17 pm
A fighter can take down a few UFOs for one sortie. Why can not dropship for one flight to visit several missions? The limitation of the engine?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 16, 2017, 06:21:43 am
I might seem like an ignorant putz asking this but, how do you start training outside the month ending? Sorry if this a mind numbingly stupid question

Also, update looks sweet,  will have to download it. Seems huge.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2017, 01:44:09 pm
A fighter can take down a few UFOs for one sortie. Why can not dropship for one flight to visit several missions? The limitation of the engine?

Yes, that's how the game has always been. One could theoretically add some code to change it, but it is really problematic design-wise: for example, what happens to the wounded? Or half-empty tanks? That'd be a lot of (controversial) code.

I might seem like an ignorant putz asking this but, how do you start training outside the month ending? Sorry if this a mind numbingly stupid question

Also, update looks sweet,  will have to download it. Seems huge.

There's an option in the menu, "psi training anytime"or something similar.

And have fun!  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 16, 2017, 04:56:43 pm
I mean after you tick that option, how do you PUT THEM INTO training...?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2017, 06:49:30 pm
I mean after you tick that option, how do you PUT THEM INTO training...?

The easiest way is right-click on the Gym.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 16, 2017, 07:02:30 pm
Oh snap, ok, Never realized that was how it was.  I assume same applies to the psi training?...thank you.

...imaybe this should be written into the UFOpedia entry, if it isn't already.

EDIT : by the way, left a nasty crash in the bug thread. Might want to look at it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2017, 10:59:14 pm
Oh snap, ok, Never realized that was how it was.  I assume same applies to the psi training?...thank you.

...imaybe this should be written into the UFOpedia entry, if it isn't already.

That's how training always worked in OXC, it's not an XCF thing. Of course you can also set training through the Soldiers menu, like psi.

EDIT : by the way, left a nasty crash in the bug thread. Might want to look at it.

Thanks, I haven't checked the latest bugs yet - no time to mod this week... But I will soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on May 18, 2017, 07:50:53 am
How do I progress in the TFTD research?  I can't research the zrbite tank I have, and it seems that disassembling it into raw zrbite requires me to research zrbite first.  Is there another mission past luring the aquatoid ship that I haven't triggered?  I haven't done any research that looked like it would trigger new missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 19, 2017, 02:10:00 am
Honestly the Close quarters combat thing, while interesting, seems poorly balanced : the fact a farmer can make me miss when I taze him in the back out of his sight seems ridiculous. I really wish this also took into account reactions, as I figure this would take more reactions than melee skill, and perhaps even stength.

Pistols also seem like they should have a buff on this : pistols are short, one handed, and designed for close engagements, so I figure it would do better than say, a rifle or mp5. I also kinda wish really good rolls could either make the person drop the gun, or very, very rarely, make them shoot them-self (that's possible right?)

Anyway, its not a bad mod, and certainly adds flavor, but balancing for it certainly needs a bit of work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: ohartenstein23 on May 19, 2017, 03:03:30 am
The shooter's reactions are taken into account, the roll is compared to (gun cqb accuracy) × (melee / 2 + reactions / 2) - (defender's melee dodge [which is usually based on reactions]).  The likely problem is gun accuracies set too low, and I know Solarius is taking a look at bumping those up for this reason.  Shooting yourself isn't possible, unless it's an explosive round, and I think dropping the gun is too much of a penalty and could be exploited to disarm the AI.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 19, 2017, 07:29:57 am
You completely sure?... I swear to god one time I saw a alien hybrid in FMP shoot himself in the face with an AK47 when he was completely surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned, and outclassed

...you telling me that awesome memory was something else?

But you have a good point about exploiting : I was thinking ONLY for a very high scoring roll difference, like say, 40 plus over

And on a side note, I know you were hesitant to give it a TU cost : how about an energy cost?

I could see it working that way, where instinctively grabbing the gun at that range doesn't REALLY take much mental processing (TU's) but would use up energy in a frantic melee attempting to push the gun away. This way the feature is accessible, but not completely infinite in usage.

Regardless, gotta say I really like this : it shakes things up, making new hairy scenarios, and also giving melee weapons more of a niche than before, which I can appreciate, considering I never used the baseball bat...but now having someone raid a room with a bat is actually reasonable idea.   :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 19, 2017, 10:07:44 am
Sorry for not responding earlier, I have a very busy week.

Zrbite... Sorry, can't remember exactly, and I can't check right now. Have you tried the tech viewer?

CQC will be toned down, as indeed it is too powerful. Thankfully it's just one variable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: LuigiWhatif on May 19, 2017, 10:28:04 am
I looked at the tech viewer, that's where I saw what I needed.  Pictures included, with the assumption that STR_ITEM_DESTROYED means I have to have one of the item in question to analyze.  So far I've only gotten zrbite tanks, so does that mean there's a mission that spawns individual zrbite that I haven't seen yet?  I'm eager to get this finished, since the Ironfist is down the line and a bigger transport would be really nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 20, 2017, 06:57:02 am
It seems the other varieties of LMGs seem to be completely outclassed by the blackops LMG by the time you encounter them : maybe the LMG should be a later item, or LMGs of some sort should be introduced earlier, perhaps very rarely with church of dagon / Red dawn. Particularly with red dawn, the green box LMG (spacing on the name) was used during the warsaw pact, and I think wouldn't be TOO hard to get their hands on, considering they have AK47s everywhere. Even if they were only singular units per mission, it would be useful :infact, it might be an interesting fit for the black lotus footman, since besides the witch, and ninja, the black lutus is a bunch of pushovers I feel. I mainly want the LMGs there so it applies to the general rule where you can unreliably, and early get good guns, before you can buy them, but this never applies to LMGS because by the time I see them, I always have blackops industries tech. At least the PKM, or FN whatever it is, would be good earlier on, particularly as an option for  Red dawn, possibly black lotus, or even exalt, as a rare issuance to mid ranks : this way assault guns could be something one could store away for a "rainy day" so to speak.

The MAC10 sound is REALLY dinky for a 45 calibur SMG. Frankly, so is the blackops LMG...consider sound changes? Maybe making it the same as the tommygun, considering its the same calibur and damage, right?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 20, 2017, 03:01:51 pm
Regarding Zrbite: yeah, it's a bug. To research Zrbite, you must first have Zrbite, which comes from Zrbite Tanks, but to extract Zrbite from the tank you must have the Zrbite tech...
Fixing.

The PKM is relatively easy to find. Certainly easier than the Blackops one. But maybe I misunderstood something?

The sound... Maybe I'll change it. I got to finally sit down and mod something. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Gordonmull on May 20, 2017, 09:02:16 pm
Just had my first CQB moments. Really jarring. I went in with 2 agents against one Dagon supporter and we were opened up on from a two story building We quickly moved in as a team to nail the perp. My sergeant got slain with a knife. At this point my rookie should have been able to take the suspect down. Nope. She turned and shot the wall then did that again two more times and I'm left thinking, "WTF? That's not a fair game!" Then she took a few shots to the face on the alien turn and team was lost.

Can't say I'm a fan of this development. Loving everything else but this just doesn't feel right. Honestly not sure whether to revert back to an earlier version because that was just so visually horrible to watch.

Anyroad, had to give the feedback, I'd rather it was more positive!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Meridian on May 20, 2017, 09:26:33 pm
Can't say I'm a fan of this development. Loving everything else but this just doesn't feel right. Honestly not sure whether to revert back to an earlier version because that was just so visually horrible to watch.

Yeah, it's super-annoying to play against and super-OP to play with.

Once you can't stand it anymore, just find this "enableCloseQuartersCombat: 1" in the ruleset and change 1 to 0 to disable the whole thing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Gordonmull on May 20, 2017, 09:45:05 pm
Yeah, it's super-annoying to play against and super-OP to play with.

Once you can't stand it anymore, just find this "enableCloseQuartersCombat: 1" in the ruleset and change 1 to 0 to disable the whole thing.

Thanks, Meridian :D Much appreciated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 20, 2017, 10:18:10 pm
The PKM is relatively easy to find. Certainly easier than the Blackops one. But maybe I misunderstood something?
I mean that, by the time I EVER find a PKM, or any other heavy machine gun variety, I already have blackops industries unlocked, and in turn, the blackops assault LMG, which is better than the PKM, FN MININ (or whatever) and pretty much all other options. Comparatively, I can get the AK47,  grenades, rpg, and other weapons LONG before I can legally purchase the equivilants, and it functions as a nice "rainy day" dynamic, where sure, you HAVE an rpg, but its only 1 : you might want to save it, make it count...but this never applies to the pkm in my several playthroughs. Infact this has been my FAVORITE dynamic of say piratez, and to a lesser extent, this game : that I can get an AK, and a few clips, and use it for a risky mission long before they can be purchased. I only wish this applied to the LMG's

So its not exactly commonality, its that by the time it IS common the blackops assault LMG is ALSO common, and is 100% superior...which kinda goes against the dynamic of you being under-gunned, but taking the better guns of your enemies to use.

As for CQC, I admit its broken in its CURRENT form, but I feel this can be salvaged, and made cool : it just needs its numbers adjusted quite a bit. Currently any unit who isn't a paraplegic can fend off a pistol shot point blank, and its a rediculous, but the intent was for SKILLED people being able to, or rookies being easy to fend off : the skill check is very one sided right now, so yes, its kinda messed up.

I figure for CQC, the following things should be added

1 : make it exponentially harder to counter, the more you are flanked. It should be ALMOST impossible to counter from behind
2 : balance numbers out, so reactions and melee are more important. Perhaps make a skill floor for countering an attack, so complete rookies don't have the luxery, unless naturally skilled
3 : make countering consume a bit of energy : TU' consumption was talked about, but seems too much of a pain to micro, but I think energy consumption would be extremely fair, and would make sense. It would also keep it from being abusable. Maybe also make it consume morale from sheer stress : so abusing it is also less possible unless someone has some serious brass on them. Maybe even checks for other stats as well?
4 : provide a buff for pistols against CQC, a nerf against rifles and long guns. I figure anyone could wrestle away a rifle at close range if quick enough, but a pistol or SMG would be far more difficult. Perhaps also track what kind of gun the attacker / defender are using, and consider those into play : I figure a pistol and knife weilding agent, even with mediocre skill, would do better than say, a ninja who was somehow carrying 2 long guns. Having lighter weight in hands, and particularly if one has free hands, melee weapons, or bulky guns should all play parts in this, rather than just a check for melee and reactions : Because I refuse to believe I can carry 2 MP5s, and be just as effective as bare handed at fending off point blank shots.
5 : perhaps make CARRYING a melee weapon in hand give a small boost to CQC skills. I would feel more confident fending off a gun attack close range with a combat knife or club, or something, and it gives you an extension of your grip to better move the gun away from you.

I'm not sure how much any of this already exist, but I figure this COULD be an awesome feature IF it is balanced first. It seems like a neat idea, but with the numbers being massive shots in the dark.

Oh, and dogs really should be made standard issue I think : It makes no sense them behind medicine, and they are the best if you get them EARLY, to train them on easier missions. Or at least make them match something which makes sense, like logistics maybe, because dogs have nothing to do with medicine, do they?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2017, 12:08:40 pm
The CQC has been overhauled... It should be more realistic now. Tests are underway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 21, 2017, 08:42:26 pm
Make sure to detail what was balanced in the changelog, so we can examine exactly what happened : that is, once you update it : I'm eager to see how it was changed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2017, 09:16:57 pm
Make sure to detail what was balanced in the changelog, so we can examine exactly what happened : that is, once you update it : I'm eager to see how it was changed.

It's simple: all weapons have their accuracyCloseQuarters stat increased by 1.25.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Slaughter on May 21, 2017, 09:35:16 pm
I've been away from the game due to being computer-less and I must ask - what's up this CQC thing?

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2017, 09:39:07 pm
I've been away from the game due to being computer-less and I must ask - what's up this CQC thing?

If you try shooting a trained martial arts guy with a rifle from point blank, expect he'll just knock the rifle to the side/manhandle you/kick you in the balls, and the bullet will go in a random direction. Basically an additional test when using a non-melee weapon at melee range, based on Melee Accuracy and Reactions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: mumble on May 21, 2017, 09:49:04 pm
It's simple: all weapons have their accuracyCloseQuarters stat increased by 1.25.
I see...hope you consider other elements I suggested later, when you have more time.

Its a cool mechanic concept, just needs some liberal polishing.

I've been away from the game due to being computer-less and I must ask - what's up this CQC thing?

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk




It changes the balance up quite a bit, but in a nice way : breaching a door with a melee weapon / gun combo in hand is not a terrible idea, and its better to fire from 2 tiles back. Likewise, rushing gunners with a melee weapon is a viable tactic, since point blank reaction fire is much less dangerous. Just make sure you don't have to run TOO far before swinging.

Oh, and monsters like spiders are significantly more scary : bringing someone with a mac10 and combat knife isn't a bad idea.

Speaking of combat knife, could you make the machete have a higher power bonus from strength? Currently its inferior to the combat knife entirely, where as I could see it being more effective in STRONG, but unskilled hands. Maybe make the power bonus .3 or .4,
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2017, 10:29:20 pm
Its a cool mechanic concept, just needs some liberal polishing.

Which I hope you all will help me with. :)

Speaking of combat knife, could you make the machete have a higher power bonus from strength? Currently its inferior to the combat knife entirely, where as I could see it being more effective in STRONG, but unskilled hands. Maybe make the power bonus .3 or .4,

Okay, I raised it to 0.3 from Strength (and still 0.1 from Melee).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Dr.Crowley on May 22, 2017, 06:16:51 pm
I finally got some time to take a look on this new version. Hope none of game-breaking bugs will show up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Lohland on May 22, 2017, 07:35:30 pm
And what is needed Police ID Card
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
Post by: Dr.Crowley on May 23, 2017, 07:51:05 am
Well, I've got "Church of Dagon High Temple" mission almost as soon as I loaded my old save file (from version 0.5.4 IIRC) into version 0.6.4. LOL.

Anyway, it's September 25, 1999, and I've got a bad feeling (yet again) that maybe I should start a new game because there are still some questions from before:
1)why I still can't research and manufacture alien guns? I have Alien Engeneering researched, so what else is required?
2)why I still can't manufacture Toxigun? I have BOTH Toxigun AND Toxigun Flask researched, but only Toxigun can be manufactured. What kind of Unobtanium-666 should I research else?
3)why the Strange Life Forms research branch suddenly stopped? The last major breakthrough were Mutant Metabolism and Mutant Blood Plasma Extraction. Oh, and the latest event from this arc I saw was the Arachnoquake.

To be honest, I blame the Beginner difficulty (yeah, you know, not everyone play on Superhuman). The list of my finished research topics is below:
- STR_LOGISTICS
  - STR_PERSONAL_PROTECTION
  - STR_LEATHER_COAT
  - STR_VEST_BUSINESS_SUIT
  - STR_NONSTANDARD_WEAPONS
  - STR_SHOTGUN_BUY
  - STR_SHOTGUN
  - STR_MAGNUM_BUY
  - STR_MAGNUM
  - STR_UZI
  - STR_UZI_CLIP
  - STR_ALIEN_ABDUCTION
  - STR_HUMAN_FARMER
  - STR_FARMER
  - STR_WEREWOLF_CORPSE
  - STR_WEREWOLF_AUTOPSY
  - STR_TOUGH_CREATURE_AUTOPSY
  - STR_STRANGE_CREATURE_AUTOPSY
  - STR_CHUPACABRA_CORPSE
  - STR_CHUPACABRA_AUTOPSY
  - STR_MEGASCORPION_CORPSE
  - STR_MEGASCORPION_AUTOPSY
  - STR_SHAMBLER_CORPSE
  - STR_SHAMBLER_AUTOPSY
  - STR_SHIV
  - STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE_CORPSE
  - STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE_AUTOPSY
  - STR_CROSSBOW
  - STR_ALIEN_HARVEST
  - STR_DOSSIER_ERNIE_LLOYD_SOBATKA
  - STR_DISCIPLE_OF_DAGON
  - STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON
  - STR_CULTIST_INTERROGATED
  - STR_MILESTONE_1
  - STR_MILESTONE_1_SUMMARY
  - STR_HUNTING_RIFLE
  - STR_FLARE_PISTOL
  - STR_MP
  - STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE_TERRORIST
  - STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE
  - STR_STRANGE_CREATURE
  - STR_WHAT_DO_NOW_MILESTONE_1
  - STR_GIANT_SPIDER_CORPSE
  - STR_GIANT_SPIDER_AUTOPSY
  - STR_DOSSIER_ABEBA_TEWOLDE
  - STR_ENFIELD_REVOLVER
  - STR_ETRACE
  - STR_FENRIR_CORPSE
  - STR_FENRIR_AUTOPSY
  - STR_KIRYU_KAI
  - STR_MINEBEA_UZI
  - STR_XENOLOGIST_CONTACT
  - STR_INFO_UPLOAD
  - STR_ZOMBIE_GRUBAS_CORPSE
  - STR_ZOMBIE_GRUBAS_AUTOPSY
  - STR_ALIEN_LANGUAGE_INVESTIGATION
  - STR_BRAINWASHED_HUMAN_FARMER
  - STR_ZOMBIE_PARASITE
  - STR_ZOMBIE_PLOT
  - STR_STAFF_008
  - STR_MIB_SOLDIER
  - STR_SCOUT_DRONE
  - STR_MEDICINE
  - STR_DOG_RECRUITMENT
  - STR_DOGE_BITE
  - STR_MONGORN_TERRORIST
  - STR_MONGORN
  - STR_GIANT_SPIDER_TERRORIST
  - STR_GIANT_SPIDER
  - STR_CAWS
  - STR_SMG
  - STR_MUTANT_PHYSIOLOGY
  - STR_DART_RIFLE_PREQ
  - STR_CHIEF_RESEARCHER_CONTACT
  - STR_MUTANT_METABOLISM
  - STR_MUTANT_BLOOD_PLASMA
  - STR_TONFA
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_FOLLOWER
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS
  - STR_TOXIGUN
  - STR_COOL_ALIEN_GADGET
  - STR_STAFF_001
  - STR_CHIEF_ENGINEER_CONTACT
  - STR_ALIEN_LANGUAGE
  - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE
  - STR_WORKSHOP
  - STR_MONGORN_CORPSE
  - STR_MONGORN_AUTOPSY
  - STR_AXE
  - STR_THROWING_KNIVES
  - STR_STUN_ROD
  - STR_BIOEXO
  - STR_BOOM_BOX
  - STR_DART_RIFLE
  - STR_STUNNED_HUMAN_FARMER
  - STR_DART_PISTOL
  - STR_WERECAT_CORPSE
  - STR_WERECAT_AUTOPSY
  - STR_TRAUMA_PACK
  - STR_ADVANCED_MEDICINE
  - STR_HEALING_SPRAY
  - STR_REAPER_CORPSE
  - STR_REAPER_AUTOPSY
  - STR_DART_RIFLE_CLIP_B_PREQ3
  - STR_DOSSIER_HARLEY_STONE
  - STR_DOSSIER_RICHTER_TWINS
  - STR_BIO_LABORATORY
  - STR_MACHETE
  - STR_STAFF_002
  - STR_EXALT_INFILTRATOR
  - STR_EXALT
  - STR_ALIEN_INFILTRATION
  - STR_EXALT_NETWORK
  - STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON_NETWORK
  - STR_DOSSIER_TERRENCE_LOCKHART
  - STR_DOSSIER_ELIAS_SEPPA
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_NETWORK
  - STR_MAKAROV
  - STR_STAFF_003
  - STR_DESERT_EAGLE
  - STR_AK47
  - STR_STAFF_007
  - STR_SKORPION
  - STR_PSICLONE
  - STR_ALIEN_ENGINEERING_PREQ
  - STR_ALIEN_ENGINEERING
  - STR_STAFF_009
  - STR_ZOMBIE_GRUBAS_TERRORIST
  - STR_ZOMBIE_GRUBAS
  - STR_ZOMBIE_EVOLUTION_HYPOTHESIS
  - STR_MOTION_SCANNER
  - STR_NITRO_EXPRESS
  - STR_ZOMBIE_INFECTOR_CORPSE
  - STR_ZOMBIE_INFECTOR_AUTOPSY
  - STR_ZOMBIE_INFECTOR_TERRORIST
  - STR_ZOMBIE_INFECTOR
  - STR_ZOMBIE_ARE_BREEDING
  - STR_ALIEN_FOOD
  - STR_SPIKEBOAR_CORPSE
  - STR_SPIKEBOAR_AUTOPSY
  - STR_SECTOID_CORPSE
  - STR_SECTOID_AUTOPSY
  - STR_DART_RIFLE_CLIP_B_PREQ1
  - STR_FN_FAL
  - STR_DOSSIER_LYDIA_LUX
  - STR_DOSSIER_HARRIE_LENSSEN
  - STR_DOSSIER_JIN_CHUN_MAE
  - STR_DOSSIER_SAKAMORI_MOTOKO
  - STR_WOODEN_CLUB
  - STR_KATANA
  - STR_STAFF_004
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_WARRIOR
  - STR_THROWING_STARS
  - STR_ALIEN_BIOLOGY
  - STR_DOUBLE_BARRELED
  - STR_RIFLE_M16
  - STR_BASEBALL_BAT
  - STR_ZSRR_GANGER
  - STR_ZSRR
  - STR_ZSRR_BIO_ENHANCEMENT
  - STR_ZSRR_NETWORK
  - STR_MILITARY_ENVOY_CONTACT
  - STR_ALL_STAFF_CONTACTED
  - STR_MILESTONE_2
  - STR_MILESTONE_2_SUMMARY
  - STR_INCENDIARY_GRENADE
  - STR_SMOKE_GRENADE
  - STR_HAZMAT_ARMOR
  - STR_XENONAUTS
  - STR_ARMORED_VEST
  - STR_WHAT_DO_NOW_MILESTONE_2
  - STR_BLACKOPS_CONTACT
  - STR_CAWS_BUY
  - STR_ASSAULT_RIFLE_BUY
  - STR_ASSAULT_RIFLE
  - STR_SMG_BUY
  - STR_RIFLE_CLIP
  - STR_PISTOL_BUY
  - STR_PISTOL_CLIP
  - STR_PISTOL
  - STR_RIFLE_BUY
  - STR_RIFLE
  - STR_BLACKOPS_SHOTGUN_BUY
  - STR_BLACKOPS_SHOTGUN
  - STR_DOSSIER_MARTIN_JAKUBKO
  - STR_DOSSIER_TAN_YING
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_WITCH
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_OPERATIONS
  - STR_BLACKOPS_SNIPER_RIFLE_BUY
  - STR_BLACKOPS_SNIPER_RIFLE
  - STR_SHADOWBAT_CORPSE
  - STR_SHADOWBAT_AUTOPSY
  - STR_ARASAKA_3000
  - STR_LABORATORY
  - STR_DURATHREAD
  - STR_JUMPSUIT
  - STR_BILLHOOK
  - STR_HEALING_PACK
  - STR_KNIFE
  - STR_SICK_BAY
  - STR_BASIC_FLIGHT_TRAINING
  - STR_EXPLOSIVES_LICENCE
  - STR_DYNAMITE
  - STR_GRENADE
  - STR_LANDMINE
  - STR_HK_MK23_SOCOM
  - STR_DRAGONFLY
  - STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_BUY
  - STR_LMG_BUY
  - STR_LMG_CLIP
  - STR_LMG
  - STR_FN_FAL_BUY
  - STR_PROXIMITY_GRENADE
  - STR_TOXIGUN_FLASK
  - STR_IMPROVED_MUDRANGER
  - STR_FLAME_GLOVE
  - STR_DOSSIER_PARVATI_ANAND_FOSTER
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSASSIN
  - STR_ALIEN_ALLOYS
  - STR_ALIEN_SURGERY
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_AVATAR_CORPSE
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_AVATAR_AUTOPSY
  - STR_WAKIZASHI
  - STR_RAK
  - STR_ALLOYS_ENGINEERING
  - STR_TOMMYGUN
  - STR_ALLOY_VEST
  - STR_ALLOY_AMMO
  - STR_PISTOL_AA_CLIP
  - STR_RIFLE_AA_CLIP
  - STR_BLACKOPS_SNIPER_RIFLE_AA_CLIP
  - STR_MAGNUM_AA_DRUM
  - STR_SMG_AA_CLIP
  - STR_LMG_AA_CLIP
  - STR_SHOTGUN_AA_SHELLS
  - STR_SHOTGUN_AA_SHELLS_AP
  - STR_CAWS_CLIP_AA
  - STR_ALLOYS_MANUFACTURING
  - STR_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT
  - STR_ALLOY_BLADES
  - STR_ALLOY_SWORD
  - STR_LUGER
  - STR_RIFLE_SA80
  - STR_ALLOY_KNIFE
  - STR_RIFLE_M16_CLIP
  - STR_CONTACT_CULT_ARMS_DEALERS
  - STR_STEYR_AUG_BUY
  - STR_STEYR_AUG
  - STR_ARASAKA_3000_BUY
  - STR_CANISTER_GUN
  - STR_GIANT_SPIDER_QUEEN_CORPSE
  - STR_GIANT_SPIDER_QUEEN_AUTOPSY
  - STR_ALIEN_COMMUNICATOR
  - STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_MALE
  - STR_ZSRR_PIONEER
  - STR_ALIEN_ENTERTAINMENT
  - STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_CH
  - STR_CANISTER_GUN_AMMO
  - STR_UFO_SIGNATURE
  - STR_WEREWOLF_TERRORIST
  - STR_WEREWOLF
  - STR_BEASTMAN
  - STR_LIGHT_CANNON
  - STR_MAGMA_CONTACT_PREQ
  - STR_LC_AP_AMMO
  - STR_LC_BS_AMMO
  - STR_DURATHREAD_FACTORY_LOCATION
  - STR_MAGMA_CONTACT
  - STR_THRASHER_SHOTGUN
  - STR_HEAVY_CANNON
  - STR_AUTO_CANNON
  - STR_TACTICAL_GRENADE_LAUNCHER
  - STR_ADVANCED_FIREARMS_DEP_1
  - STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_01
  - STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_ALLOY_AMMO
  - STR_SHARE_ALLOY_AMMO_TECH
  - STR_AC_AA_AMMO
  - STR_THRASHER_SHOTGUN_BUCKSHOT_ALLOY
  - STR_HC_AA_AMMO
  - STR_LC_AA_AMMO
  - STR_LC_BS_AA_AMMO
  - STR_BEASTMAN_FORMULA
  - STR_THRASHER_SHOTGUN_BUY
  - STR_LIGHT_CANNON_BUY
  - STR_MAGMA_MISSION_MAGMA_LAB
  - STR_EXAMINATION_ROOM
  - STR_SMALL_RADAR_SYSTEM
  - STR_AWACS
  - STR_MEGAZOMBIE_CORPSE
  - STR_MEGAZOMBIE_AUTOPSY
  - STR_ZOMBIE_TROOPER_CORPSE
  - STR_ZOMBIE_TROOPER_AUTOPSY
  - STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT
  - STR_LARGE_RADAR_SYSTEM
  - STR_DOSSIER_IVAN_VASLOV
  - STR_EXALT_ENFORCER
  - STR_EXALT_OPERATIONS
  - STR_DOSSIER_MCGUINNESS_ELLIOTT_COOKE
  - STR_RIFLE_M16_BUY
  - STR_GROZA
  - STR_DURATHREAD_MANUFACTURING
  - STR_DOSSIER_MILLER_AND_SMITH
  - STR_SPIKEBOAR_TERRORIST
  - STR_SPIKEBOAR
  - STR_DOSSIER_ANTONIO_BIANCHI
  - STR_MEGASCORPION_TERRORIST
  - STR_MEGASCORPION
  - STR_DOSSIER_IOANA_IANCU
  - STR_PRIEST_OF_DAGON
  - STR_ELDRITCH_LANGUAGE_INVESTIGATION
  - STR_CHOSEN_OF_DAGON
  - STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON_OPERATIONS
  - STR_RIFLE_SA80_BUY
  - STR_ELDRITCH_LANGUAGE
  - STR_TRANSPORT_ALTERNATIVE
  - STR_HELICOPTER
  - STR_PRIVATE_TRANSPORT
  - STR_BIG_HEALING_SPRAY
  - STR_HK_MK23_SOCOM_BUY
  - STR_INTEL_LABORATORY
  - STR_FAMAS_BUY
  - STR_FAMAS
  - STR_QBU_88_BUY
  - STR_QBU_88
  - STR_SKS
  - STR_SWD
  - STR_PSG1_BUY
  - STR_PSG1
  - STR_BLACKOPS_AUTO_SNIPER_RIFLE_BUY
  - STR_BLACKOPS_AUTO_SNIPER_RIFLE
  - STR_SKS_BUY
  - STR_SWD_BUY
  - STR_GILLDOG_CORPSE
  - STR_GILLDOG_AUTOPSY
  - STR_BOLT_ACTION
  - STR_BOLT_ACTION_BUY
  - STR_SWARMIDS_LARGE_TERRORIST
  - STR_SWARMIDS
  - STR_SWARMIDS_SMALL_TERRORIST
  - STR_DOSSIER_THOMAS_ERICKSON
  - STR_SORCERER_OF_DAGON
  - STR_DAGON_MORPH
  - STR_GILLDOG_TERRORIST
  - STR_GILLDOG
  - STR_ALIEN_LIFEFORMS
  - STR_DAGON_STAFF
  - STR_DOSSIER_IVAN_PRYPET
  - STR_MESSENGERS_OF_DAGON
  - STR_CHUPACABRA_TERRORIST
  - STR_CHUPACABRA
  - STR_AKSU74
  - STR_DOSSIER_ANATOLY_AVDEYEV
  - STR_PKM
  - STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON_HQ
  - STR_MAC10
  - STR_EXALT_GOON
  - STR_MAC10_BUY
  - STR_SWARMIDS_SMALL_CORPSE
  - STR_SWARMIDS_CORPSE
  - STR_SWARMIDS_AUTOPSY
  - STR_SORCERER_OF_DAGON_CORPSE
  - STR_SORCERER_OF_DAGON_AUTOPSY
  - STR_FLOATER_CORPSE
  - STR_FLOATER_AUTOPSY
  - STR_GRAV_MODULE
  - STR_GRAVMODULE_ARMOR
  - STR_DOSSIER_KAO_TONG
  - STR_S&W_610
  - STR_BLACK_LOTUS_FOOTMAN
  - STR_S&W_610_BUY
  - STR_DEEP_ONE_CORPSE
  - STR_DEEP_ONE_AUTOPSY
  - STR_POLICE_ID
  - STR_TLETH_HATCHET
  - STR_AQUA_PLASTICS_PREQ2
  - STR_TLETH_SPEAR
  - STR_DEEP_ONE_SOLDIER
  - STR_DEEP_ONE
  - STR_STEN
  - STR_STEN_BUY
  - STR_MP40_CLIP
  - STR_DEEP_ONE_COMMUNITIES
  - STR_STAFF_005
  - STR_ZSRR_MATROS
  - STR_ZSRR_OPERATIONS
  - STR_AK47_BUY
  - STR_AK47_CLIP
  - STR_GROZA_BUY
  - STR_AKSU74_BUY
  - STR_CHTONITE_CORPSE
  - STR_CHTONITE_AUTOPSY
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Kep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2017, 09:05:32 pm
By alienguns, do you mean plasma weapons and such? They require way more than just Alien Engineering. The only easily accessible alien weapons are lasers.
Toxigun requires Alien Gardens.
Strange Life Forms can be resolved, but you are too early for this. Just harvest them for now.

EDIT: Version 0.6.5 has been released!

- Update of CQC mechanics (now it should be a bit more difficult to divert point blank shots).
- Complete rebuiling of Hybrid convoy missions.
- Updated Rusian version (by Kammerer).
- Added incendiary ammo for the Light Cannon.
- Machete is a bit stronger.
- Fixed maps crashing due to tall buildings.
- Fixed Dart Pistol ranges.
- Fixed Black Lotus Footman sprite.
- Fixed Megaworm Autopsy crash.
- Fixed broken terrain.
- Fixed broken Hybrid Agent corpse research.
- Fixed an issue with Sten ammo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Kep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Dr.Crowley on May 23, 2017, 10:25:13 pm
By alienguns, do you mean plasma weapons and such? They require way more than just Alien Engineering. The only easily accessible alien weapons are lasers.
Hmmm, I'll check my stores.
Toxigun requires Alien Gardens.
Alien Gardens? What is it, UFO Component, plot research or "alien activity"-type research?
Strange Life Forms can be resolved, but you are too early for this. Just harvest them for now.
Oh well, seems like I need to research the overall alien plot somewhat deeper.

EDIT: Version 0.6.5 has been released!
Geez, and I just installed 0.6.4.  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Kep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: mumble on May 24, 2017, 04:31:28 am
There seems to be a typo in your thread : kep your enemies closer...

Hope the CQC is better balanced now : mind providing any specifics for exact changes?

EDIT : by the way, when will we have awards added in again? I really miss these from FMP, but dont want to lose the cool stuff in xcom files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Kep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: HT on May 24, 2017, 04:32:45 pm
So, how does exactly the new CQC mechanics work then? I was hoping for a new Ufopaedia entry but nothing so far. Also, a minor question I have: Does X-Com Files also have the save problem with updating saves between newer editions of the game, or could I theoretically play the latest version with an old savegame without issues? My latest save is from the immediately previous version, 0.6.3 I think, but the game is REALLY long enough and I would loathe having to start over again at some point in the future.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Kep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: ohartenstein23 on May 24, 2017, 07:18:21 pm
So, how does exactly the new CQC mechanics work then? I was hoping for a new Ufopaedia entry but nothing so far.

This thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5431.0.html) contains an explanation of the mechanics.  Baseline in XCF for the accuracy is 80%.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Kep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 25, 2017, 12:43:58 am
Sorry about lack of awards... I didn't get to them yet. The ones from the mod are not very suitable, so I need to make something different.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: mumble on May 25, 2017, 08:01:53 pm
I suppose so : though awards were honestly my favorite thing about FMP : getting a highly decorated vet on the field felt great, and losing them felt awful.

If only there was a way to make certain things and names change after XCOM promotions : that would be a neat effect : and then we could have titles in xcom troops change as the agency changes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 25, 2017, 11:59:26 pm
I suppose so : though awards were honestly my favorite thing about FMP : getting a highly decorated vet on the field felt great, and losing them felt awful.

But I totally understand! I feel the same.

If only there was a way to make certain things and names change after XCOM promotions : that would be a neat effect : and then we could have titles in xcom troops change as the agency changes.

There's something (I think) better coming: special stat bonuses from commendations. In Meridian we trust :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: mumble on May 27, 2017, 12:14:17 am
special stat bonuses from commendations. In Meridian we trust :)
Oh you tease.

That sounds great, but balancing would take work : still, I would love this to make soldiers a little more diverse, and enable something along the lines of soldier builds, similar to xcom enemy unknown, except less shoe-horned in.

The possibilities for this sound great... like maybe making weapon proficiency medals for different gun types, and with each rank (bronze, silver, gold) lower TU cost, and raise aim by 1 or something.

This could work for some crazy gameplay, especially for some of the more rare medals - perhaps sole survivor granting +10 hp, and +15 bravery.

Damnit, I want this now...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Yankes on June 02, 2017, 12:03:03 am
Idea for fun "pistol":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcNS4JdprWc
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2017, 12:42:07 am
Idea for fun "pistol":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcNS4JdprWc

Yeah, and I definitely must make a Calico. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: LuigiWhatif on June 04, 2017, 08:34:28 am
I've pretty much wrapped up my current game, so I figure I should give my feedback.  I'm very impressed by your work, and I find the various arcs compelling to progress on.  However I felt that some of the later arcs took too long to progress on or perhaps relied too much on chance to spawn.  I only started encountering Osiron after I had power suits and railguns, and I could do the Cydonia mission before I met the Syndicate.  As of March 2000 I've pretty much finished researching alien technology, but I still haven't finished the Syndicate line and I haven't encountered any MiB except the agents at abduction sites.  On the matter of research, I was browsing the tech tree and I saw that I could advance more on the TfTD line but I need an item called "Dagon".  Is this in the game?  I haven't encountered one, but I don't see a TfTD percent on the first page so I'm curious if it's still to come.  The last thing I can think of is I still would like better armor for infiltrations.  I still think some form of jumpsuit would work, or a durathread suit.

For now I probably won't play again for a while.  I have some other games to play, and then I'll probably get to Piratez first.  I'm excited to see how your game will have progressed by then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 04, 2017, 12:46:22 pm
Many thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings. I agree that it's too easy to go to Cydonia now, but that's because I'm building the mod from the ground up (early stages first), and it's still unfinished.

As for the Dagon research, you
need to interrogate an Aquatoid
.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5 alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: LuigiWhatif on June 04, 2017, 10:37:56 pm
I did.  I researched both a soldier and a navigator.  Neither gave me it.  I see in the tree there is a leader class, but I don't recall ever seeing one.  Here's my last save if you want to check.  I have some in my Aquaca base you can transfer to my HQ.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 10, 2017, 10:29:08 pm
I did.  I researched both a soldier and a navigator.  Neither gave me it.  I see in the tree there is a leader class, but I don't recall ever seeing one.  Here's my last save if you want to check.  I have some in my Aquaca base you can transfer to my HQ.

Yeah, you were right, it was bugged...
I really need to release the next version soon.

EDIT: 0.6.5b bugfix version has been released.

- Updated to newest OXCE+.
- New Commercial mapblocks.
- Fixed some problems with Zrbite.
- Fixed medium convoy crashing on some maps.
- Fixed Megaworm melee crash.
- Fixed mission crash caused by label conflicts.
- Fixed EXALT bases spawning after their destruction.
- Fixed Gang War in forests.
- Fixed FAMAS article not being displayed at the right time.
- Fixed Miniguns research.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Stoddard on June 11, 2017, 12:57:57 am
A couple of bugs in the ruleset:

An unintended fallback to the vanilla (same as was with the ufopaedia articles):
Code: [Select]
--- facilities_XCOMFILES.rul.orig 2017-06-11 00:46:02.229488675 +0300
+++ facilities_XCOMFILES.rul 2017-06-11 00:46:29.921410023 +0300
@@ -60,7 +60,7 @@
     hitSound: 10
     mapName: XBASE_10
     listOrder: 714
-  - name: STR_HYPER_WAVE_DECODER
+  - type: STR_HYPER_WAVE_DECODER
     requires:
       - STR_HYPER_WAVE_DECODER
     hyper: true
@@ -93,7 +93,7 @@
     personnel: 50
     mapName: XBASS_01
     listOrder: 690
-  - name: STR_MIND_SHIELD
+  - type: STR_MIND_SHIELD
     requires:
       - STR_MIND_SHIELD
     mind: true

A typo:
Code: [Select]
--- terrains_XCOMFILES.rul.orig 2017-06-11 00:48:20.097101982 +0300
+++ terrains_XCOMFILES.rul 2017-06-11 00:48:23.781092608 +0300
@@ -7137,7 +7137,7 @@
         groups: 0
       - name: WARE_14
         width: 10
-        lenght: 10
+        length: 10
         groups: 2
         revealedFloors: [2, 3]
       - name: WARE_15
This one is masked by a fallback to default size of 10 in the code, but still.



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 11, 2017, 01:07:22 am
Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: niculinux on June 15, 2017, 01:11:29 pm
@Solaius: an humble request, may we have the current uzi sprite (same used by the Mib mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2180.0.html)) with the one used in alinare'sThe Endless war, A total conversion for Openxcom (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.msg81673.html#msg81673) (screenshot here (https://postimg.org/image/f1voxyuvh/)) It's actually a really cool sprite!  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 16, 2017, 12:17:12 pm
@Solaius: an humble request, may we have the current uzi sprite (same used by the Mib mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2180.0.html)) with the one used in alinare'sThe Endless war, A total conversion for Openxcom (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.msg81673.html#msg81673) (screenshot here (https://postimg.org/image/f1voxyuvh/)) It's actually a really cool sprite!  8)

Maybe if I add more weapons in general. ;) Though I already have two Uzis...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: krautbernd on June 17, 2017, 11:47:57 pm
Hi Solarius, i've been playing your mod the last few days. It's a hell of a lot of content you've put into this  :D

Some minor things that i stumbled upon while playing:

- Megaworm (terrorist) ufopaedia entry isn't linked correctly (i.e. not at all)
- EXALT outposts keep on popping up even though the arc is finished (i.e. EXALT is destroyed)
- doors in Cyberweb lairs sometimes don't link correctly
- stored items are scattered on hangar floors during base defense missions - is this intended?
- council member defense missions start with your agents neatly lined up on the rooftop and enemies inside the house and the lower balcony, meaning your soldiers instantly draw reaction fire - is this intended?
- the second level (counted from the top) of the archive defense mission is kind of messed up
- Durathread factory missions sometimes don't contain said factory (i.e. no reasearch topic)

As i have no idea what you are working on right now most of these might already be fixed on your side. BTW, do you plan on including the TFTD ufopaedia entries/images? Because the Ion Beam Accelerator/engine and the Aquatoid entry look very...preliminary.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: MFive on June 18, 2017, 04:58:19 am
Durathread factory missions sometimes don't contain said factory (i.e. no reasearch topic)

There is an item on the map, bluprints IIRC. If you used lots of explosives, this could have destroyed it.

I just finished a few of these missions (version 0.6.5b), had no issues.

- EXALT outposts keep on popping up even though the arc is finished (i.e. EXALT is destroyed)

This happened to me with Cult of Dagon, they stopped after a month or two
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 18, 2017, 10:26:46 pm
Hi Solarius, i've been playing your mod the last few days. It's a hell of a lot of content you've put into this  :D

Thank yewww!

- Megaworm (terrorist) ufopaedia entry isn't linked correctly (i.e. not at all)

Fixed!

- EXALT outposts keep on popping up even though the arc is finished (i.e. EXALT is destroyed)

Fixed!

- doors in Cyberweb lairs sometimes don't link correctly

Which ones? Can't find anything wrong, but it ain't easy.

- stored items are scattered on hangar floors during base defense missions - is this intended?

Yes - or rather, an accepted limitation. Otherwise hangars can't be stores.

- council member defense missions start with your agents neatly lined up on the rooftop and enemies inside the house and the lower balcony, meaning your soldiers instantly draw reaction fire - is this intended?

I'm still experimenting with that, and I hope for improvement of spawning routines.

- the second level (counted from the top) of the archive defense mission is kind of messed up

Meaning?

- Durathread factory missions sometimes don't contain said factory (i.e. no reasearch topic)

Hmmm... Weird. Probably like MFive said, you have destroyed it somehow.

BTW, do you plan on including the TFTD ufopaedia entries/images? Because the Ion Beam Accelerator/engine and the Aquatoid entry look very...preliminary.

Not exactly the same entries, but sure, I'll be expanding the Pedia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: krautbernd on June 18, 2017, 11:12:23 pm
Which ones? Can't find anything wrong, but it ain't easy.
Rooms connecting to the long hallway/hallways - mostly on the upper left and the lower right. The inner doors always spawn, but the outer ones don't, i.e. they are blocked by walls.

Meaning?
It's just a grid of one-space wide hallways. Might be intended, but i found it strange that they aren't even terminated at the borders of the level.

Hmmm... Weird. Probably like MFive said, you have destroyed it somehow.
No, i have a save i can replicate this with. The factory doesn't spawn, neither does the resarch topic item - only 3-4 durathreads. The level is just normal hills without any buildings. Granted, it doesn't always happen, i'd say the chance of it is 50/50.

Also something i noticed, when you down and ground-assault the big syndicate aircraft the spawn points don't work as intended - i had my guys spawn inside the syndicate plane, including the items.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 19, 2017, 09:25:24 pm
Rooms connecting to the long hallway/hallways - mostly on the upper left and the lower right. The inner doors always spawn, but the outer ones don't, i.e. they are blocked by walls.

I ran some tests, but came up with nothing unusual. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just need that screenshot (or save) to understand the problem.

It's just a grid of one-space wide hallways. Might be intended, but i found it strange that they aren't even terminated at the borders of the level.

Nothing is terminated at the borders of a level on this map.

No, i have a save i can replicate this with. The factory doesn't spawn, neither does the resarch topic item - only 3-4 durathreads. The level is just normal hills without any buildings. Granted, it doesn't always happen, i'd say the chance of it is 50/50.

Okay, this one was indeed a bug! But it wasn't 50.509, it was actually 17/83. :P

Also something i noticed, when you down and ground-assault the big syndicate aircraft the spawn points don't work as intended - i had my guys spawn inside the syndicate plane, including the items.

WAT.
Okay, this sounds like a chore... It used to work, though! I'll fix it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: krautbernd on June 20, 2017, 03:30:32 pm
I ran some tests, but came up with nothing unusual. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just need that screenshot (or save) to understand the problem.
Sorry, took some time to get back to it, screenshots are attached. Tell me if you need the save file.

Nothing is terminated at the borders of a level on this map.
Just making sure, it's supposed to look like this?

Okay, this one was indeed a bug! But it wasn't 50.509, it was actually 17/83. :P
Yeah, figured as much. Granted, my sample group wasn't especially big :P

WAT.
Okay, this sounds like a chore... It used to work, though! I'll fix it.
Sorry... ;D

Also, i still get EXALT outposts months (6+) after it's termination. Is this intended? Do cults pop up again occasionally (maybe in case the player missed some research topics)?

BTW, i hope it's alright to upload screenshots like this, spoilers and all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5b alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 20, 2017, 07:13:15 pm
Sorry, took some time to get back to it, screenshots are attached. Tell me if you need the save file.

Thanks!
(Do they have to be so enormous though? If I want to look at it, I need to make the entire forum waaaaaay too small to read anything. Are you playing on a widescreen TV or something?)

Now I get what you mean... I thought you meant later Cyberweb stages. But yes, sometimes part of the map is inaccessible. I could change it, but it would also mean throwing away all variety and randomness, so I have decided it's better to leave it as is; who said X-Com will always get the right entrance? Use explosives! ;)

Just making sure, it's supposed to look like this?

I guess if it was good enough for Hobbes, who is a really thorough mapmaker, it's good enough for me. And Apocalypse was the same really.

Also, i still get EXALT outposts months (6+) after it's termination. Is this intended? Do cults pop up again occasionally (maybe in case the player missed some research topics)?

This is fixed in 0.6.5c. Which has now been released.

- Fixed unkillable EXALT.
- Fixed some armours available where they shouldn't be.
- Fixed one Slum map.
- Fixed Scarab spawns.
- Fixed Durathread Factory not spawning sometimes.
- Fixed Megaworm research (again).
- Fixed Zrbite Tank article crash. Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5c alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: HT on June 20, 2017, 07:59:59 pm
Yay, a new release! Oh, just bugfixes. Still, it's something.

Did you add that congratulatory message I mentioned from MAGMA, Solarius?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5c alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 20, 2017, 08:55:00 pm
Did you add that congratulatory message I mentioned from MAGMA, Solarius?

Sorry no, no new content this time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5c alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Nord on July 05, 2017, 07:32:07 pm
mediafire says "permission denied" when i try to download newest version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5c alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Dr.Crowley on July 05, 2017, 11:04:18 pm
mediafire says "permission denied" when i try to download newest version.
I had no problem downloading it. Anyway, here is an alternative link (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jLMtnoVs6aNW9ERlRzZVE0TUk) for you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.5c alpha: Keep Your Enemies Closer
Post by: Nord on July 06, 2017, 09:23:59 am
Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2017, 09:52:44 pm
Version 0.6.6 is released.

- Updated the exe to OXCE+ 3.8.
- New missions: Citizens vs. Monsters (desert and jungle variants), Police Anti-Monster Operation, Military Anti-Monster Operation, Alien Agricultural Sabotage, new Alien Terror variant.
- New alien ship: Cruiser (map by Dioxine).
- Overhauled all Marsh terrains.
- Overhauled all live and dead enemies sell prices.
- Fully randomized mission generation times.
- Added some new articles (with Woah's help).
- Added some missing briefings.
- Updated Tundra terrain properties (by Hellrazor).
- Fixed Syndicate Assassination ally spawning (and made the map bigger).
- Fixed Skymarshall roof.
- Fixed Monster Lab floor.
- Fixed Mind Shield and Hyper-Wave Decoder mysterious crash.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HT on July 12, 2017, 10:28:31 pm
Version 0.6.6 is released.

- Updated the exe to OXCE+ 3.8.
- New missions: Citizens vs. Monsters (desert and jungle variants), Police Anti-Monster Operation, Military Anti-Monster Operation, Alien Agricultural Sabotage, new Alien Terror variant.
- New alien ship: Cruiser (map by Dioxine).
- Overhauled all Marsh terrains.
- Overhauled all live and dead enemies sell prices.
- Fully randomized mission generation times.

FUCK YES! Time to start again... From March 98, no chance in hell I'll start over from the very beginning and do everything again. These new changes seem promising.

By the way, can you use another color for the post's title? That purple color is painful.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Dr.Crowley on July 13, 2017, 12:32:07 am
Version 0.6.6 is released.

- Updated the exe to OXCE+ 3.8.
- New missions: Citizens vs. Monsters (desert and jungle variants), Police Anti-Monster Operation, Military Anti-Monster Operation, Alien Agricultural Sabotage, new Alien Terror variant.
- New alien ship: Cruiser (map by Dioxine).
- Overhauled all Marsh terrains.
- Overhauled all live and dead enemies sell prices.
- Fully randomized mission generation times.
- Added some new articles (with Woah's help).
- Added some missing briefings.
- Updated Tundra terrain properties (by Hellrazor).
- Fixed Syndicate Assassination ally spawning (and made the map bigger).
- Fixed Skymarshall roof.
- Fixed Monster Lab floor.
- Fixed Mind Shield and Hyper-Wave Decoder mysterious crash.

YES, YES!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: DJChickyNuggs on July 13, 2017, 04:38:04 am
(srry if you get asked this alot) is it possible to beat the game yet?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: mumble on July 13, 2017, 08:45:27 am
AFAIK, the game has been beatable for a while : it ends how normal xcom ends,
with invading mars

Hes just filling in all the inbetween stuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: DJChickyNuggs on July 13, 2017, 03:25:39 pm
oh cool, thanks  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Lohland on July 13, 2017, 11:14:43 pm
After loading the old save, the built-in hyper-wave decoders disappeared on the bases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 13, 2017, 11:26:38 pm
After loading the old save, the built-in hyper-wave decoders disappeared on the bases.

Yeah, their strings had to be changed to fix the crash. Sorry, gotta build them again! (Or cheat them in.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 15, 2017, 03:23:38 pm
Hi Scorch!
After completing a mission in 0.6.6 on global map I always get crash at the same time with the same error:
A fatal error has occurred: Segmentation fault. This usually indicates something missing in a mod.
OpenXcom has crashed: Segmentation fault. This usually indicates something missing in a mod.
Extra information has been saved to openxcom.log.
If this error was unexpected, please report it to the developers.

Logs attached.

Happens even I restart the game from the beggining

--- posts merged ---

Welp, unfortunately I encountered an obstacle I can't defeat: I'm not currently in the mood to play X-COM games for the moment, more so because for some reason the game moves quite slowly even though it shouldn't, no idea if this is due my O.S. or what.

In any case, I found a minor bug which way be of your interest.

Upon leading the save, I had access to a research topic that seems I shouldn't have acquired yet: It was called something like "Bio-x", that had to do about alien biology and such. According to the tech tree viewer it is unlocked by capturing several aliens such as a Reaper, a Snakeman and a last one I don't remember right now. Doing that supposedly unlocks Stun Darts type B but, as I haven't encountered Snakemen in-game yet, I finish the research but nothing happens.
The text also does mention stuff about "three different morphologies" found in aliens, which seems to enhance further my suspicion that I shouldn't have access to this research topic yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2017, 11:56:54 am
Hi Scorch!

Hi HaMaT!

After completing a mission in 0.6.6 on global map I always get crash at the same time with the same error:
A fatal error has occurred: Segmentation fault. This usually indicates something missing in a mod.
OpenXcom has crashed: Segmentation fault. This usually indicates something missing in a mod.
Extra information has been saved to openxcom.log.
If this error was unexpected, please report it to the developers.

Logs attached.

Happens even I restart the game from the beggining

Unfortunately the log is rarely helpful... Can you please post a save?

Upon leading the save, I had access to a research topic that seems I shouldn't have acquired yet: It was called something like "Bio-x", that had to do about alien biology and such. According to the tech tree viewer it is unlocked by capturing several aliens such as a Reaper, a Snakeman and a last one I don't remember right now. Doing that supposedly unlocks Stun Darts type B but, as I haven't encountered Snakemen in-game yet, I finish the research but nothing happens.

The text also does mention stuff about "three different morphologies" found in aliens, which seems to enhance further my suspicion that I shouldn't have access to this research topic yet.

Thanks. Again, a save would be useful, since I am not sure if it's as designed or not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 02:44:17 pm
Hi HaMaT!

Unfortunately the log is rarely helpful... Can you please post a save?

Attached. All you have to do is wait. Crash occurs on 12th of November. Maybe the research will complete at that time. Don't know exactly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HT on July 16, 2017, 03:37:49 pm

Thanks. Again, a save would be useful, since I am not sure if it's as designed or not.

Okay then. The research topic can be found in the third base. I also warn you that I had edited my save in the past, mostly to alter the difficulty level as I mentioned in another thread, which may explain why I got a third base with the available budget (I use it mostly to store stuff, not to powergame too much).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2017, 04:10:30 pm
Attached. All you have to do is wait. Crash occurs on 12th of November. Maybe the research will complete at that time. Don't know exactly.

Indeed it is crashing.

Meridian, can you please have a look? Some mission is probably broken. Maybe it's the same you have mentioned before, police vs. monsters?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 05:36:30 pm
Indeed it is crashing.

Is there a way around so I can continue play while waiting for patch? Edit save file? Turn off that kind of mission for now?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Meridian on July 16, 2017, 05:54:36 pm
Is there a way around so I can continue play while waiting for patch? Edit save file? Turn off that kind of mission for now?

Yes, you can edit the save, just like described here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg85414.html#msg85414

Just look for a different mission, in your case: STR_MONSTER_VS_MOB_JUNGLE

EDIT: seeing you have STR_MONSTER_VS_POLICE_TEMPERATE in your save as well, you may want to delete that too, since it's bugged as well
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 05:59:39 pm
It did help! Thank you very much!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2017, 06:05:25 pm
It did help! Thank you very much!

I've posted a hotfix in the bug reports thread.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 06:23:10 pm
I've posted a hotfix in the bug reports thread.
May I return the save backup with broken missions or it's a temporary fix?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2017, 07:33:42 pm
May I return the save backup with broken missions or it's a temporary fix?

The save should be fine now... The bug was that I did not specify what texture should be used. I added that information, should work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 08:01:51 pm
One more question. In 0.6.6 what should be researched\captured\killed in order to get a Laboratory? An invasion has already started for me but I still have only 10 scientists.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2017, 08:15:49 pm
One more question. In 0.6.6 what should be researched\captured\killed in order to get a Laboratory? An invasion has already started for me but I still have only 10 scientists.

You need to
recruit the Chief Researcher
.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 08:31:57 pm
You need to
Than we probably have another bug. I have that guy but I can't build Laboratory. Please see my save
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2017, 08:43:47 pm
Than we probably have another bug. I have that guy but I can't build Laboratory. Please see my save

Well, it wasn't the full answer... Only a clue. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 16, 2017, 09:36:22 pm
Than what is the full answer?  :o It's a bit difficult to play without smart guys :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 17, 2017, 11:13:11 am
Just check the Tech Tree Viewer. I can't remember this stuff by heart, why not just use the tools the game gives you?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 17, 2017, 09:33:12 pm
Probably because I'm very new to this mod :) But anyway, thanks for all of your time and help! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 17, 2017, 10:54:56 pm
Probably because I'm very new to this mod :) But anyway, thanks for all of your time and help! :)

Ah, okay. Sorry... It's just that I never liked the viewer much myself, so I thought I'd capitalize on its better points. :P Because everyone seemed to be using it all the time. I should not have assumed that. Sumanai!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: mumble on July 18, 2017, 08:41:58 am
CQC is great : I just had an amazing sequence where a girl with a minebae SMG and tonfa tussled with a shotgun wielding MIB agent at a door. 1 shot went sideways, opening a wall, another went straight up, and then the tonfa connected with the guys jaw, putting him to sleep.  :D

It was a very brief moment, but certainly very exciting! Also seemed kinda reliable, considering she had 70 melee.

It was so satisfying seeing it go from about to be executed point blank, to laying an MIB agent on his ass.

Makes me wonder, is it possible you could make a sub-compact, tonfa style stun rod?

-------------

 points for farmers still seem unrealistic.

May I recommend these changes?

FARMER

Kill : -20
body : +30
Capture : +10

This way you only get points for killing farmers IF you mop things up quickly : killing a few farmers without getting the bodies will look nasty, because a farmer being killed by government agents after reporting aliens DOES NOT LOOK GOOD, and I feel the council would be incredibly upset if you ended up just blowing up a guys farm without recovering the body.

however, if he simply vanishes without a trace...this is a little different.

I doubt this would even be much of an issue, given killing them isn't hard, but its the principle of the matter. Plus you currently get more poihttps://openxcom.org/forum/Themes/InsidiousV1-k/images/bbc/glow.gifnts for violently genociding  farmers due to a double point bonus (body + kill) which makes little sense.

---------------

I think homicidal maniac should be changed to homicidal PACT, with a handful of them : otherwise this mission is too braindead easy, 1 guy with MAYBE a decent gun, fighting civilians who are also armed. I can practically let the civilians sort it out and be fine, and I ended up blowing up a handful of civilians shooting barrels (its fun) and still got credited a FAT 400 points for basically arresting a dude. For such a heavy point bonus, this should be made much harder : maybe give him home made IED mines, or a few cronies, because currently it feels horribly balanced. If there was 4 of the guys, and gaurenteed to be better armed (a single maniac with a pump shotgun is laughable) then it would seem worth it, but otherwise, I honestly do not understand why the xcom council would contact me about it, rather than say, swat. As far as I know xcom is alerted under a few conditions

1: there is a paranormal element to the group. Be it cultists, strange techknowlegy, abnormal beasts, ect. Something that would spook a typical cop.

2: a severe threat (at least past promotion 2).  Something which is a harsh threat outside the capabilities of local law enforcement

and I worry the maniac doesn't actually fall under either, his book goes on a rant about the aliens a bit, but its not so much paranormal, so much as a guy losing his nerve and trying to kill people

So I figure this mission could use some rework : maybe they could even be made as a minor faction, whos somewhat aware of hybrids and MIB, and is extremely paranoid / suspicious of people being aliens : this could actually be pretty neat if, tied into this mission, there was a few corpses of hybrids just to show maybe they weren't completely crazy =) and it would also fit the lore in a bit more of a sensible fashion.

----------------

Military assistance mission seems to be a massive crap show : I figure rather than random spawns, it would be better as a more structured mission : currently half the military gets wiped on wave 1 because of how turns end up happening, and you end up getting blamed for all the deaths..

If instead, you had the vehicle land say, on a road, next to a military convoy of military trucks and lots of troops pushed together, I feel it would be more viable of a fight. The only unit I was able to see fight back was the armored car, and thats because spiders have trouble ripping up the armor

Beyond this, military deaths should be worth less points, officers I can understand being important, but soldiers are kinda meant to enter harms way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 19, 2017, 11:38:43 pm
I'll see about these farmers, but I haven't learned to adjust the points precisely yet. :)

I think homicidal maniac should be changed to homicidal PACT, with a handful of them

It's all planned. The maniac is mostly there to scare newbies.

Military assistance mission seems to be a massive crap show : I figure rather than random spawns, it would be better as a more structured mission : currently half the military gets wiped on wave 1 because of how turns end up happening, and you end up getting blamed for all the deaths...

I don't think I can do it much better... It's mostly random after all.

Beyond this, military deaths should be worth less points, officers I can understand being important, but soldiers are kinda meant to enter harms way.

They are already worth less, for this very reason.

Buy hey, there's motivation for daring 1st turn charges!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: mumble on July 20, 2017, 01:53:07 am
I know the game is random,. but Im pretty sure you can structure things more right?

I remember in piratez if you attacked guild warehouses 80% of people were in the warehouse. Couldn't you have this sort of setup?...

Beyond that, do "civilian" classes even get reaction shots the first round? this would help a lot too, but I didn't see any of them right back.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 20, 2017, 06:53:55 pm
I know the game is random,. but Im pretty sure you can structure things more right?

Yes, but only if you sacrifice random generation for some sort of mostly premade map.

As I said, I do not think it breaks immersion or anything. Not a bug.

Beyond that, do "civilian" classes even get reaction shots the first round? this would help a lot too, but I didn't see any of them right back.

I'm not really sure, but I agree they should have reactions like everyone else.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: mumble on July 20, 2017, 11:26:04 pm
Well, what about a landing vehicle ? I Imagine if you have something similar to the skyranger, but with open sides and a truck setup, this alone would prevent slaughter of them in forest areas. have 8x2 section, railings that can be shot over, and an off ramp for soldiers to walk off from... Plus it would fit a "joint military effort" and seat 16 soldiers, perhaps with the HWP car at the ramp which would also protect a turn 1 slaughter

And I've yet to see a turn 1 reaction fire from "civilian" classes : I wonder if its broken?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HT on July 21, 2017, 12:40:26 pm
I don't think civvies can return fire regardless of their class, due their initial nature as "alien fodder" from the original game. Regardless of the case, one thing that ensures they'll take causalities is that they always act last, meaning that the enemy side will surely take down a few of them no matter what.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: mumble on July 21, 2017, 01:26:18 pm
I know they act last, but they should be able to shoot back at charging spiders

this was my issue, first round almost every single soldier dies because the spiders munch on them, and none of them, despite having m60s, fire back a shot as they charge a dozen tiles at them straight towards their front

Had they reaction fired, it would of been less of a slaughter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 21, 2017, 03:08:41 pm
I just remembered something about civilians not being able to react at all.

Meridian, can you please check the code to confirm? (Assuming it's not part of the AI code.) And if I'm right, can it be remedied? In XCF you really need reaction fire to deal with spiders and such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Meridian on July 21, 2017, 03:47:19 pm
I just remembered something about civilians not being able to react at all.
Meridian, can you please check the code to confirm? (Assuming it's not part of the AI code.)

No, civilians cannot reaction fire: https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/src/Battlescape/TileEngine.cpp#L848

And if I'm right, can it be remedied? In XCF you really need reaction fire to deal with spiders and such.

Yeah, save them civvies before they die... that's what you're paid for :)

Technically, it may be as easy as commenting out that line of code (or adding a clause they can if current side is aliens)... but should be discussed with Warboy in case it's not that easy (which is the more likely scenario).

EDIT: They also don't reserve TUs the (exactly) same way as aliens do, so they may not have enough TUs for shooting even if we enable reaction fire: https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/src/Battlescape/BattlescapeGame.cpp#L1157
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 21, 2017, 04:46:10 pm
Many thanks for the answer.

Yes, you are paid for protecting civilians... But also for supporting the army, which is completely helpless now. :)

I can ask Warboy, but it won't be very fruitful, since I can't discuss code. I count on your support here. ;)

Also, even if they don't reserve TUs, being able to shoot in the first turn would already be an improvement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: mumble on July 22, 2017, 12:03:20 am
how hard would it be to make different behavior from civilians in normal missions, and police / military?

are they really locked into "enemy" and "civilian" behaviors exclusively?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 22, 2017, 01:50:52 pm
how hard would it be to make different behavior from civilians in normal missions, and police / military?

are they really locked into "enemy" and "civilian" behaviors exclusively?

Yes, this stuff is hardcoded.

I'm currently in the process of convincing Meridian to boost the civilians AI up to the level of aliens. :) Right now they don't reaction shot. The reason is that the aliens do not recognize the civilians as a threat, so civilians would get an unfair advantage, but I still I think it would be better to give them this advantage to make them less prone to being murdered by spiders.
A more advanced solution would be to make the AI treat them the same as X-Com, but only if the civilian is armed... This would keep vanilla behaviour unchanged, but allowed for neutral soldiers who are actually able to do something. But it's a bigger coding challenge.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.6 alpha: Mark of The Beast
Post by: HaMaT on July 22, 2017, 10:54:24 pm
Can someone please explain me how to decrease UFO spawn rate? I mean that they spawn too often. Can I lower it in config file? Where?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 25, 2017, 12:51:02 am
Version 0.6.7 has been released.

- Upgraded to OXCE+ 3.9.
- New weapon: Taurus Judge.
- New missions: Communion of Apocalypse, Outpost of Apocalypse.
- New units: Brother and Cleric of Apocalypse.
- Black Lotus Warriors have a bit of camo.
- Small improvements to Black Lotus equipment.
- Slightly altered descriptions for some monster hunts.
- Added some new articles.
- Added Dossiers: Shane Barton, Henry Garrison, Lady Lucy (collaboration with Mumble).
- Stronger Hazmat armor.
- Better structured Crop Circles mission with MiBs.
- Fixed Savanna Marsh terrain.
- Fixed a hole in one mountain.
- Fixed Snubnose Pistol (was coded as two-handed).
- Fixed some crashes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: mumble on July 25, 2017, 03:25:43 am
Neat, maybe now I'll bother using the hazmat armor at some point  once I get incendiary grenades. Still figure it would be slightly more armor than a leather jacket (since its so damn thick n heavy, and made with flame retardant fibers which aren't exactly soft / light), but I cannot complain too much.  Though incendiary weapons are very limited early on. By the way, could you add in a "long range flamethrower" from piratez at some point in the game? Perhaps something from magma, like they could sell flamethrowers too, and you get a long range one when researching alien alloys and engineering, and then research for collaborating with them?

Will say more once I download it : slow web connection here

EDIT : if you ever need anything else in terms of creativity, let me know!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 25, 2017, 10:12:42 am
Thanks!

As for the flamethrowers, I'm still waiting for an AI update, so it knows what to do with a normal flamethrower.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: SteamXCOM on July 25, 2017, 06:14:58 pm
Thanks!

As for the flamethrowers, I'm still waiting for an AI update, so it knows what to do with a normal flamethrower.

If the flamethrower described is anything like on the portal it is freaking DANGEROUS.

I used it on a couple of missions and everything is on FIRE especially any close obstacles nearby.
As it is, it probably is of narrow specialty use only;
 for now seems more of a hazard to my troops rather than the aliens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Lohland on July 25, 2017, 09:50:29 pm
When you move the cursor over the clip, the number of cartridges is not displayed
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Meridian on July 25, 2017, 10:24:08 pm
When you move the cursor over the clip, the number of cartridges is not displayed

My bad, I will fix it soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: tkzv on July 25, 2017, 10:46:00 pm
- Upgraded to OXCE+ 3.9.
Where can I get it? Or is it the same branch oxce3.5-plus-proto, commit 327e1ac?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Meridian on July 25, 2017, 10:49:54 pm
Where can I get it? Or is it the same branch oxce3.5-plus-proto, commit 327e1ac?

Yes, it's 327e1ac.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2017, 07:12:36 pm
Here's a hotfix... Sorry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: mumble on July 27, 2017, 06:24:40 am
The judge Seems a little off, I think.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/03/17/shouldnt-use-410-shotshells-defense/

It says there are shells which hold 4 balls of 12 gauge buckshot, not 5...but I suppose 5 wouldn't be TOO unrealistic. Though I figure 1 damage taken off the balls should be done, considering its such a short barrel anyway, meaning less force : it would still be handy having a light 6 shooter "shotgun", but I wouldn't trust it over the light shotgun, especially since the light shotgun is lighter, and fires more buckshot than the judge does : infact, judge should certainly be lighter, otherwise I see no reason to carry a shotgun loaded judge over a "light shotgun"

So I guess, make the light shotgun heavier? it looks a helluva lot bigger too.  Perhaps make the judge as light as a colt45, since its smaller than the magnum of the same weight, and the shotgun a little heavier?

Besides this, can the accuracy of the shotshells be different than slugs? Revolvers are typically more accurate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 27, 2017, 12:04:34 pm
Well, it's a versatile weapon, and a hybrid cannot be as good as a real shotgun (however small).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: mumble on July 27, 2017, 01:37:00 pm
Right, but why the weight?  It should be a little lighter IMO

EDIT: just read about its profile, nevermind. Still, the shotgun rounds for it could use 1 damage less I think.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 27, 2017, 06:26:55 pm
Still, the shotgun rounds for it could use 1 damage less I think.

Hey, it already sucks against anything bigger than a Sectoid. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: HelmetHair on July 28, 2017, 09:09:21 pm
The Judge wasn't even manufactured until 2006.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2017, 09:20:01 pm
The Judge wasn't even manufactured until 2006.

....well, fuck.

EDIT: I should be more specific... Well, I guess I'll think about it. Maybe make it a BlackOps gun...

EDIT: No, not BlackOps, they're too late. Some sort of shady business. Or just swoop it under the carpet and simply rename it to "The Judge".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: mumble on July 29, 2017, 01:36:00 am
You could make a 12 gauge derringer pistol, perhaps, which includes slugs...But then one would ask why not use slugs for the light shotgun?


Maybe even include firing it take a small amount of stun damage, so firing it too much will incapacitate someone, because firing a 12 gauge from a single handed gun would screw you up.

Could even be 20 gauge to explain the damage difference...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: zetzet13 on July 29, 2017, 04:36:21 pm
You could also use this one instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL_Thunder_5

http://www.guns.com/2013/04/10/before-the-judge-there-was-the-thunder-5/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: mumble on July 29, 2017, 04:50:27 pm
I noticed a lot of blackops guns are cheaper than alternatives, namely the blackops SMG cheaper than an mp5 despite being better in almost every way.

Blackops should be noticeably more expensive, considering its not even on the civilian market.

Also, I just had an idea : can you create a weapon which makes the user explode? I think having a few cultists being suicide bombers would be an interesting touch.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 29, 2017, 06:31:59 pm
I noticed a lot of blackops guns are cheaper than alternatives, namely the blackops SMG cheaper than an mp5 despite being better in almost every way.

Blackops should be noticeably more expensive, considering its not even on the civilian market.

Hmm, I will review it. Thanks.

Also, I just had an idea : can you create a weapon which makes the user explode? I think having a few cultists being suicide bombers would be an interesting touch.

It would require some research, but possibly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on July 30, 2017, 05:36:16 pm
Hey Solar, is your mod compatible with oxce+ for android? I only started playing your mod in android just today and got on a mission where the landscape is black n' white. Here is the screenshot from my android
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 30, 2017, 05:41:39 pm
Hey Solar, is your mod compatible with oxce+ for android? I only started playing your mod in android just today and got on a mission where the landscape is black n' white. Here is the screenshot from my android

It should be compatible, but all I know about Android OXCE+ is that it exists...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Yataka Shimaoka on July 30, 2017, 05:43:49 pm
Yeah, it seems compatible, but what cause the black n' white landscape?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: Meridian on July 30, 2017, 06:41:43 pm
Yeah, it seems compatible, but what cause the black n' white landscape?

Probably night vision, check your settings...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.7 alpha: Apocalypse Who?
Post by: HelmetHair on July 31, 2017, 12:36:02 am
You could also use this one instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL_Thunder_5


Yep.

I noticed a lot of blackops guns are cheaper than alternatives, namely the blackops SMG cheaper than an mp5 despite being better in almost every way.

Blackops should be noticeably more expensive, considering its not even on the civilian market.


HK is notoriously overpriced so I'm totally ok with this. Also, their service sucks and getting replacement parts is like impossible so I'm giving points to Sol for realism.

I'd like to see an AK pattern shotgun which could fit the timeline for you know... reasons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8 alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2017, 09:43:48 pm
Thanks. I left the MP5 at the same (high) price, but I also made most BlackOps stuff much more expensive. :P

EDIT: Version 0.6.8 has been released.

- New weapons: Milkor MGL, Mrrshan Rifle, Crossblaster, Neon Bow.
- New mission: Meridian Hunting.
- Changed some mission rating names.
- Easier Smoke Grenade acquisition (now only requires Military Envoy).
- Fixed BlackOps weapons' prices.
- Fixed various issues with Ultra Chryssalid.
- Fixed Keep floors and stairs.
- Fixed Interceptor map (added an extra spawn tile).
- Fixed and improved Cyberweb Warehouse terrain.
- Added some missing strings.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8 alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 04, 2017, 11:31:18 pm
mrrshan rifle (is this a typo?) has no ufopedia entry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8 alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: R1dO on August 05, 2017, 01:41:34 pm
mrrshan rifle (is this a typo?) ...

Perhaps the catwomen from master of orion (http://masteroforion.eu/races/mrrshan) have an above healthy interest in humans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8 alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2017, 05:40:30 pm
mrrshan rifle (is this a typo?) has no ufopedia entry.

Eh?
(http://i.imgur.com/JLGhIFg.png)

Perhaps the catwomen from master of orion (http://masteroforion.eu/races/mrrshan) have an above healthy interest in humans.

Why only the women? It ain't Piratez! :)

There was a small bug in the latest release 0.6.8... I have reuploaded it, but if you have it already, just swap this single file.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Meridian on August 05, 2017, 05:45:09 pm
Why do I suddenly feel like I'm hunted?
I see shadows everywhere...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2017, 05:45:53 pm
Why do I suddenly feel like I'm hunted?
I see shadows everywhere...

It's a special treat! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: SteamXCOM on August 05, 2017, 06:08:35 pm
 Mrrshan?  Mrrshans as in catlike race of  the  Master of Orion?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2017, 06:48:59 pm
Mrrshan?  Mrrshans as in catlike race of  the  Master of Orion?

Oh, it surely must be just a silly rumour!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: HelmetHair on August 05, 2017, 10:26:37 pm
Oh, it surely must be just a silly rumour!

As long as we don't have to face the Sakkra...we'd be F U C K E D .

Guh, a horrid brutish race who glory in the destruction of their own gods that were most likely an advanced race that engineered them for a multi-generational war of attrition. That combined with the exponential population growth, a willingness and capability to colonize any environment, and whose culture only respects strength and violence...yeah.

So, we have a radical expansionist feudal nightmare enemy perfectly bred to flourish on Earth, who would be happy about and capable of absorbing incredible casualty levels and when pinned down happily dig in for the long fight... and they can move among the stars.

The only worse race I can think of facing in X-Com is the fucking Posleen or maybe the Cthonic Dark. Fucking nightmare lizard centaurs or semi-invisible vampire acid beasts...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2017, 10:34:13 pm
As long as we don't have to face the Sakkra...we'd be F U C K E D . Guh, A horrid brutish race who glory in the destruction of their own gods that were most likely an advanced race who engineered them for war. That combined with the exponential population growth a willingness and capability to colonize any environment and whose culture only respects strength and violence. So we have a radical expansionist fedual nightmare enemey perfectly bred to flourish on Earth and would kill us all if we didn't kill all of them.

Relax, we are within borders of the powerful Ethereal Empire... We are not alone.

All Hail the Governor of Mars!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 05, 2017, 11:42:09 pm
Quote
Why only the women? It ain't Piratez!
I'm glad it isn't

I love the GAMEPLAY and BALANCE of piratez, but gameplay be damned, I can't stand the pseudo "girl power" vibe of it, nor the constant soft core

Played it for a while, and loved the gameplay, but these elements eventually got extremely irritating  :( (almost wish there was a version of piratez without the exclusively female pirates nor the focus on female empowerment, as theres an amazing game there, IF you can get past that, but I cannot)

On topic, guess you are right, I checked via the custom battle option which unlocks the entire pedia, and never found it : guess I missed it.

Also, when will we end up getting weapons with underbarrel secondary fires? I know you are working on it, and its possible to make...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8 alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: tkzv on August 05, 2017, 11:47:55 pm
Why only the women? It ain't Piratez! :)
Because only the women served in the military. At least in MoO 1.

Glad to see an update. I'm out of things to do in 0.6.7.

Speaking of Piratez, there is a problem that savefiles have to be manually corrected to allow new missions. Does X-Com Files suffer from it too?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Nord on August 06, 2017, 07:01:03 am
Hi, Solarius. Many changes from last time i looked on x-com files. Great work.
But i must ask again: how about late game? Rail weapons, craft equipment, all this stuff?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 06, 2017, 10:10:38 am
Late game still has all the stuff from FMP, which is pretty substantial to be honest : advanced MIB troops, alt alien types, new tech and weapons...

FMP was a wild ride by itself, never beat it (slightly late in research because I got complacent, and lost because I didn't go for the final solution)  but got incredibly close. So late game content wise, there is indeed a few extra crafts n weapons.

I personally like how its a long journey in this mod, and I dont mind that this slowly ventures through all its phases : though

By the way, the accuracy of an aimed shot on the blackops assault rifle is pretty woeful : the AK74 is better in this aspect, and honestly I think having it at a 90 or even 95 would make sense : the standard rifle often functions as a sniper rifle, and while I doubt a bullpup short design would be as close, I feel it would be a lot better than that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Dr.Crowley on August 06, 2017, 10:46:39 am
Relax, we are within borders of the powerful Ethereal Empire... We are not alone.

All Hail the Governor of Mars!

Errr... The Emperor protects?

I'm glad it isn't

I love the GAMEPLAY and BALANCE of piratez, but gameplay be damned, I can't stand the pseudo "girl power" vibe of it, nor the constant soft core

Played it for a while, and loved the gameplay, but these elements eventually got extremely irritating  :( (almost wish there was a version of piratez without the exclusively female pirates nor the focus on female empowerment, as theres an amazing game there, IF you can get past that, but I cannot)

I second this.

Jokes asides, I have (finally) got some time and will to continue my playthrough (hell yeah, 4 or 5 versions later). Dagon's High Temple mission was not so bad aside from camping cultists who tried to do the last stand in the Golden Statue chamber. Well, it was not so hard to drop my sword-wielding agents on these panicking bastards 8)
The next was (in)famous Zombie Catacombs mission. Not so bad too, but the map itself looked a quite weird: there were numerous "hills with stairs" near extraction point and the rest of this map was almost a generic dungeon from Diablo (with Doom torches!), almost devoid of any enemies (due of Beginner difficulty, as I understand). Not that it is something bad but I was expecting something, well, bigger - and at least some kind of goddamn Zombie Matriarch ;D I lost one agent because of my own stupidity - I forgot Zombie Hunt Rule #1: mantain a circle formation ALL THE TIME GODDAMMIT!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 06, 2017, 11:42:19 am
The MGL seems to have a VERY low accuracy, to the point I honestly didn't feel threatened when a chosen of dagon pelted my ship with grenades. I figure the accuracy being raised by 10 each would be reasonable, especially for something like an explosive.

Also, is it supposed to be available for purchase before a normal grenade launcher? I researched one and could buy them at promotion 2, all blackops gear, explosives license, ect, and this feels slightly misplaced. Maybe grenade launchers should be unlocked by ANY

...and I know this is the wrong thread, but the grenade cylinders for it do not fit into the 1x1 unit properly, and the GL itself looks like a 2x2, but is actually a 1x3
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2017, 05:08:32 pm
Hi, Solarius. Many changes from last time i looked on x-com files. Great work.
But i must ask again: how about late game? Rail weapons, craft equipment, all this stuff?

Thanks!
Late game will come later :) I'm working sequentially.

As a preview:
- Gauss weapons will be come from reptoids. Railguns - I'm not sure, but it'll probably be some X-Com design, a marriage of two exotic technologies (Gauss and Martian tech).
- Craft equipment: it's a never ending story. I can never muster enough energy to go finish them. Actually, I'd appreciate some help here. :P

The MGL seems to have a VERY low accuracy, to the point I honestly didn't feel threatened when a chosen of dagon pelted my ship with grenades. I figure the accuracy being raised by 10 each would be reasonable, especially for something like an explosive.

Maybe, but I don't want it to become too good - it's a one-handed heavy weapon, it can't be too good! But I will adjust the stats if they turn out inappropriate - I haven't tested it much yet.

Also, is it supposed to be available for purchase before a normal grenade launcher? I researched one and could buy them at promotion 2, all blackops gear, explosives license, ect, and this feels slightly misplaced. Maybe grenade launchers should be unlocked by ANY

Grenade launchers are strictly military equipment. I'm afraid it can't be made more accessible.
(But maybe the flamethrower can...?)

...and I know this is the wrong thread, but the grenade cylinders for it do not fit into the 1x1 unit properly, and the GL itself looks like a 2x2, but is actually a 1x3

That's an outdated report actually; fixed in the current downloadable version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: HelmetHair on August 06, 2017, 08:22:34 pm

Grenade launchers are strictly military equipment. I'm afraid it can't be made more accessible.
(But maybe the flamethrower can...?)


Grenade launchers are available for legal sale in much of the world to civilians. I speak not only of the U.S. and it's Leaf Bros of the North, but a ton of different places. I literally have a coworker who a year ago paid for the privilege of shooting a cow with an RPG in Thailand.

There is a catch. Grenade launchers that are available easily to anyone are 37mm and not 40mm. Some places have the real deal civilian legal 40mm or both 37mm and 40mm legally available for serious. It isn't the law that's usually the issue, but the expense of all the required safety measures of a manufacturer or wholesaler selling to you. Now, 37mm can be considered the "utility" size as just about every thing except HE is easily available.

Flame throwers actually have about the same laws associated with them than grenade launchers due to things like uncontrolled wildfires and something like an attack in Belfast in the 90s but are just as available and "legal" as grenade launchers. I mean for fuck sake there was a dude who had an anti-car jacking system for sale that was a flame thrower.

Strictly military equipment does not mean strictly military availability and quite frankly you should just come out and say that you don't want the players to have too good of equipment too early. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2017, 09:08:02 pm
Helmet, if I followed your expertise, civilians would already be driving around in tanks. :P

Of course balance is a part of this... But another purpose is to avoid ridiculous situations where a (essentially) police detective pulls out an RPG and blows something up. This isn't Mission Impossible, people., You want to do this stuff, you become soldiers first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: tkzv on August 07, 2017, 10:00:20 am
(But maybe the flamethrower can...?)
Flare pistols are not a weapon, technically. I see no reason for a civilian to carry one in a city, but hunters or tourists in the wilderness may have one.

By the way, there's such thing as a two-barrel flare pistols, though they are relatively rare. http://www.ima-usa.com/original-german-wwii-luftwaffe-double-barrel-flare-pistol-by-krieghoff-dated-1943.html More barrels make it more complex and heavy and didn't catch on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 07, 2017, 10:08:29 am
If you want RPG's n stuff, raid store houses and you might get some.

Actually, this gives me an idea for a mission solair, what about a munitions outpost assault for exalt or red dawn? like a mission which has a chance to have high rank officers of course, but also has LOTS of neat guns normally ranked for promotion 3 and such, but on the other hand, lots of enemies armed to the TEETH with such weapons. I would certainly consider a rough mission which only had value in getting good weapons and ammo, even if it was very dangerous.

Kinda like a very high risk, very high reward situation, where its a near death sentence attacking it, but if you DO, you end up with lots of weapons which conveniently the council doesn't mind you using. Like a few high explosives, a few RPGs, heavy machine gun type weapons, and other equipment. Could make it a similar experience to raiding a UFO on promotion 1 (I have done this actually, with hunting rifles, shotguns and pistols) where its an extremely dangerous, and almost foolish idea, but has IMMENSE rewards to doing so.

I personally love this kind of game-play, but I admit its a little silly that the council won't let you BUY an RPG, but is completely ok with you bringing in an RPG to a city to fight monsters or something. I kinda wonder if maybe RPG's / grenade launchers should be behind a research lock to use, for "liabilities",  before xcoms lawyers can justify it with the explosives license. Sure, theres no authority to PURCHASE an RPG, but the license still """"technically""""" covers RPG rounds.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 07, 2017, 10:26:14 pm
Actually, this gives me an idea for a mission solair, what about a munitions outpost assault for exalt or red dawn? like a mission which has a chance to have high rank officers of course, but also has LOTS of neat guns normally ranked for promotion 3 and such, but on the other hand, lots of enemies armed to the TEETH with such weapons. I would certainly consider a rough mission which only had value in getting good weapons and ammo, even if it was very dangerous.

Hmm, that would be something like the Siberia. :D Why not, but right now I prefer to work on new stuff, instead of adding new iterations to starting factions. With time, sure.

I personally love this kind of game-play, but I admit its a little silly that the council won't let you BUY an RPG, but is completely ok with you bringing in an RPG to a city to fight monsters or something.

Well... you haven't bought it, right? ;)

I kinda wonder if maybe RPG's / grenade launchers should be behind a research lock to use, for "liabilities",  before xcoms lawyers can justify it with the explosives license. Sure, theres no authority to PURCHASE an RPG, but the license still """"technically""""" covers RPG rounds.

Nah, too much trouble. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 07, 2017, 11:54:46 pm
I guess you didn't buy the RPG yeah

I suppose I wish there was a means to qualtifiy severity of colateral damage, I have a habit of blowing up industrial zones filled with barrels, and am always amused that despite demolition an entire city block as a 2 bit police organization, nobody cares.

I suppose damage would, over time end up being ignored for more severe circumstances, but I think the council would have a word if you blew up  and entire city block to catch 1 gang banger  :D

unsure if this is even remotely possible, but it would be neat, at least for inner cities or other places, I figure blowing up an entire apartment complex would make a little bit of headlines.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: SteamXCOM on August 08, 2017, 01:30:51 am

I suppose I wish there was a means to qualtifiy severity of colateral damage, I have a habit of blowing up industrial zones filled with barrels, and am always amused that despite demolition an entire city block as a 2 bit police organization, nobody cares.


I made a suggestion in the other forum about property damage. Maybe for certain tiles destroyed by XCOMERS a certain  assessment should subtracted from the score.   
Even if the aliens are defeated in that battle, if  the city block or even farm is leveled, there are going to be some very unhappy people. 

The negative score for that might be offset by reparation payments or sometime to that effect.

For terror missions at least I would think the rocket tank would NOT be welcome by the populance.
But yes, it is so much FUN blowing things up..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 08, 2017, 01:51:12 am
problem with it is scaling : you couldn't do 1 point per tile, or else a grenade going off would cost a fortune, and some damage is indeed inevitable in many cases : I figure maybe somewhere between 3 - .25 points per tile damage would be interesting. Not only that, but how would you scale it with other situations

Either way, its not coded, but would be cool : I'm sure glad the missle racks inside cult houses aren't on public property, or I'd constantly be in the hole quite a few points for nuking a house  ;D

Anyway, more ontopic, can the blackops SMG get an aimed shot like the minebae smg? I know the minebae is technically a classified gun from the old kiryukai, but I figure blackops could incorporate such techniques anyway, being as powerful as they are. Even if its just a marginal 10% increase in aim, it would be interesting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: tkzv on August 08, 2017, 01:54:21 am
I made a suggestion in the other forum about property damage. Maybe for certain tiles destroyed by XCOMERS a certain  assessment should subtracted from the score.   
Even if the aliens are defeated in that battle, if  the city block or even farm is leveled, there are going to be some very unhappy people. 

The negative score for that might be offset by reparation payments or sometime to that effect.

For terror missions at least I would think the rocket tank would NOT be welcome by the populance.
But yes, it is so much FUN blowing things up..
There should also be positive score for property damage if X-COM retreated from the enemy base :) Of course, it should be only a percentage of the bonus for capturing the base and burning it to the ground.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 08, 2017, 01:59:00 am
See, that I disagree with in MOST cases. Blowing up an enemy factions house doesn't do much good if everyone survives, and certainly blowing a hole in their wall does nothing objective wise. At best you would cost them a few thousand dollars trying to board up the hole, and irritate their management, but its not arrests, its not killing them and thinning their numbers, and its not a seizure of funds / equipment. Besides that, except for literally blowing up the entire house, the cost would be negligible to the faction.

Beyond that, I assume if you have mission success that the local authorities would seize the property ANYWAY, and seizing a property which had been nuked obviously wouldn't win you more points : I figure its too complex to quantify in all these scenarios.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Lohland on August 08, 2017, 06:29:05 am
I suppose I wish there was a means to qualtifiy severity of colateral damage,


X-COM3 Apocalypse? No thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 08, 2017, 10:58:07 am
You know, some of the magma guns seem heavy for the sake of being heavy, namely the thrasher shotgun : its basically a giant double barrel shotgun, yet its over 30 weight! I figure it being 20 would be incredibly fare, considering its a break action, and that the light cannon out performs it in many aspects, except accuracy...and why is the light cannon so innacurate? I figure it would be more accurate than a heavy cannon, at very least for snap shot since its lighter weight is easier to manipulate, and its a CANNON, so an aimed shot should be pretty respectable. I know there is concerns over red dawn using it, but they rarely have it, and I've yet to lose anybody to cannon fire, so this might not be a bad thing, making it more accurate

But certainly, lower the weight of the thrasher to like, 20 : the weight of the ammo alone makes it very hard to carry, trust me, considering its a double barrel : this means if you want 10 shots, you have to set aside 20 weight for it to begin with, where as right not its almost unmanageable even with my biggest dudes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: tkzv on August 08, 2017, 11:49:49 am
X-COM3 Apocalypse? No thanks.
Tastes differ. I think it was a good idea. Still, the penalty for property damage should be far below penalty for killed civilians, which is how much? -10 for each?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 08, 2017, 12:43:56 pm
is it me, or are zombies STUPIDLY explsovie resistant? I can understand them being bullet, resistant, even melee resistant, as they have no real vital points, but I figure a satchel of TNT would be more than enough to destroy any zombie by the megazombies : I really think their explosive resistance should be lowered, would certainly make the magma zombie mission a lot easier

remember, these things aren't much different from humans despite strength, and don't exactly have armor or anything, they hardly have clothes : a tnt charge or landmine under their feet should put them out of commission.

I can even understand the argument of FRAG grenades having less effects, since fragments aren't as thorough, but a tnt charge right under you would turn you into paste, and I doubt being a zombie would magically make the zombie not paste.

Besides, zombies are bullet spongey enough as is, and flamethowers aren't availible till later on : let met have some sort of means to reliably kill them : even if the zombie troopers are more resistant, thats fine, but surely zombie infectors shouldn't be able to take a tnt and grenade right under them and still walk.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: SteamXCOM on August 08, 2017, 05:13:31 pm
Tastes differ. I think it was a good idea. Still, the penalty for property damage should be far below penalty for killed civilians, which is how much? -10 for each?

Yes, I seem to recall a penalty for XCOMers killing civilians

-10 per civilian killed, is that a moddable value?
If so where can it be found?
Certainly gives incentive to leave the rocket tank at home if changed to a higher value.

I saw civilians worth  30 there in the UNITS.RUL but not whatever controls the score charts

and in the alienDeploynments.RUL  there is

    civilians: 16  #number of civilians that are on the map, change to higher for more
    despawnPenalty: 1000 #penalty to score if the site despawns without xcom reaction


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Lohland on August 08, 2017, 08:33:27 pm
Tastes differ. I think it was a good idea. Still, the penalty for property damage should be far below penalty for killed civilians, which is how much? -10 for each?

Can be made optional, whoever wants - can include.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 09, 2017, 10:18:01 am
I think the mini swat tank needs to be revamped, currently its an HWP, which means you need AT LEAST a dragon fly to use it, and by that late, 6 shotgun shells and barely any armor simply does not cut the mustard. I figure a slight bump in armor (or at least health, 15 is really nothing) as well as double the ammo reserve would make it more useful by the time its availible, and would certainly help with training troops at least.

Otherwise, even a troop with an MP5 and crappy aim generally does better : I suppose its an OK spotter, but I find a dog is superior in most ways, with equal agility more or less, no ammo concerns, ability to carry, and free motion scanners.

Also, cattle mutilations / abductions really need to stop later in the game, I think : once you research the farmers and hit promotion 2, they start being really out of place. Maybe just make it a requirement to get promotion 2, and make local authorities handle it, like cult safehouses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2017, 09:26:24 pm
Anyway, more ontopic, can the blackops SMG get an aimed shot like the minebae smg? I know the minebae is technically a classified gun from the old kiryukai, but I figure blackops could incorporate such techniques anyway, being as powerful as they are. Even if its just a marginal 10% increase in aim, it would be interesting.

Maybe. I'm kinda confused with my own SMG classification now. :D
But probably not, since they're hardly build for sniping. The Minebea at least has a two-handed grip.

You know, some of the magma guns seem heavy for the sake of being heavy, namely the thrasher shotgun : its basically a giant double barrel shotgun, yet its over 30 weight!

Imagine the recoil...

why is the light cannon so innacurate?

Because it's so specialized. Basically "smallest cannon you can build". First to all, it's too light for the (again) recoil. And extreme in many aspects.

I figure it would be more accurate than a heavy cannon, at very least for snap shot since its lighter weight is easier to manipulate,

Dude... Aiming a weapon does not include dragging it around to point it to the enemy. But on the other hand, recoil (yes) is a bitch.

But certainly, lower the weight of the thrasher to like, 20 : the weight of the ammo alone makes it very hard to carry, trust me, considering its a double barrel : this means if you want 10 shots, you have to set aside 20 weight for it to begin with, where as right not its almost unmanageable even with my biggest dudes.

How do I put it gently... NO!

is it me, or are zombies STUPIDLY explsovie resistant?

No, they are not resistant to explosives at all.

I can understand them being bullet, resistant, even melee resistant, as they have no real vital points, but I figure a satchel of TNT would be more than enough to destroy any zombie by the megazombies : I really think their explosive resistance should be lowered, would certainly make the magma zombie mission a lot easier

I really think you should stop whining. They are not resistant to explosives. At all.

remember, these things aren't much different from humans despite strength, and don't exactly have armor or anything, they hardly have clothes : a tnt charge or landmine under their feet should put them out of commission.

It usually does. :)

I think the mini swat tank needs to be revamped, currently its an HWP, which means you need AT LEAST a dragon fly to use it, and by that late, 6 shotgun shells and barely any armor simply does not cut the mustard. I figure a slight bump in armor (or at least health, 15 is really nothing) as well as double the ammo reserve would make it more useful by the time its availible, and would certainly help with training troops at least.

Yeah, I agree. I may revamp tanks completely. This just isn't a priority now.

Also, cattle mutilations / abductions really need to stop later in the game, I think : once you research the farmers and hit promotion 2, they start being really out of place. Maybe just make it a requirement to get promotion 2, and make local authorities handle it, like cult safehouses.

Also agreed, but it's WIP.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 12, 2017, 11:21:24 am
You know, I find it odd the AK47 and colt 45 ammo function identically : shouldn't a colt 45 be less effective against armor?  Its not a pointed round, or even a magnum round. (sure, the 44 magnums aren't pointed, neither are slugs, but they are HUGE,. so them being mildly effective to armor makes sense due the the size / velocity)

I understand bigger rifles have armor penetration, but the comparison between the 2 rounds shouldn't be identical : I figure the colt45 (and tommy guns for that matter) should have a slight disadvantage to armor : certainly for the tommygun, I feel otherwise its very slightly overpowered, even with the accuracy a 50 round magazine can easily provide many advantages even into black ops era, and I figure maybe a 15%+ armor might be a reasonable change.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Dr.Crowley on August 12, 2017, 11:51:58 pm
Also, cattle mutilations / abductions really need to stop later in the game, I think : once you research the farmers and hit promotion 2, they start being really out of place. Maybe just make it a requirement to get promotion 2, and make local authorities handle it, like cult safehouses.
Well, these mission still can be used as some sort of training for the rookies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: mumble on August 13, 2017, 12:17:43 am
I suppose : I guess my biggest issue is that the game is so lenient to slaying innocent farmers even when you start getting explosives and stuff : I would figure the council would have higher expectations at that point.

I suppose it would be fine if killing them actually gave NEGATIVE points, while the bodies gave POSITIVE points, for a net gain IF you collect the body, this way at least plastering a farm with explosives isn't such a good idea, considering people will see the chaos, bullet holes, dismembered bodies, and it will cause MORE of a panic, rather than less, and perhaps even a higher point amount for captures, to put them into witness protection or something : I imagine the council would like, first and foremost, discretion when dealing with innocent civilians, and the more I think about it, the more I think about killing farmers with assault rifles makes no sense, especially if the bodies aren't even retrieved to make it LOOK like a disappearance.

Also, as an idea for MIB, maybe this could be paired into it, where you can find / re-purpose the mind wipe tools from MIB, and use them to brainwash farmers and send them back, or possibly other elements. After all, I'm sure discretion would be important to the council more than anything, to keep the nations happy / as oblivious as possible to the shit hitting the fan around them, so maybe this could be a good idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 14, 2017, 11:28:24 am
You know, I find it odd the AK47 and colt 45 ammo function identically : shouldn't a colt 45 be less effective against armor?  Its not a pointed round, or even a magnum round. (sure, the 44 magnums aren't pointed, neither are slugs, but they are HUGE,. so them being mildly effective to armor makes sense due the the size / velocity)

I'd have to trow the entire balance (including vanilla) out of the window.

Nobody cared about it in vanilla, so why is it so important now?

I will keep thinking about it.

I suppose : I guess my biggest issue is that the game is so lenient to slaying innocent farmers even when you start getting explosives and stuff : I would figure the council would have higher expectations at that point.

I'm all for improvements, but I can't really juggle the properties around like this; I'm working with the code I have.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.8b alpha: Alien Hunter
Post by: DreamThorn on August 22, 2017, 05:59:24 pm
Is this the right place for bug reports?

In 0.6.6 some of the grassy snowy tiles in the tundra and forests have zero movement cost.  The changelog for versions since then don't mention it being fixed, but I'll upgrade today and see.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2017, 07:15:13 pm
Is this the right place for bug reports?

Not really, there is another thread in the same place, deceptively called "Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste". ;) But it's OK. :)

In 0.6.6 some of the grassy snowy tiles in the tundra and forests have zero movement cost.  The changelog for versions since then don't mention it being fixed, but I'll upgrade today and see.

OK, I'll go and check.

I'm planning a release soon, so thanks for the report.

EDIT: I can't find these tiles. It could be a case of an object tile used as a floor tile... Would you perhaps have a screenshot, or save?

EDIT: 0.6.9 has been released.
- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- Overhauled and expanded music.
- Added racial deployments for Floaters.
- Added missions: Trouble in Ski Resort, Alien Downtown Attack, Alien Purge, Dimension X Transfer Point.
- New unit: Crisis Trooper.
- New craft equipment: Shield Generator.
- New weapons: Sporting Rifle, Incinerator, Acid Pistol, Acid Bolt, Boomeroid, Disruptor Rifle, Heavy Disruptor.
- New Ammo: AP-BS for CAWS.
- Introduced new damage types: PSI, WARP.
Added Dossier: Rennielle Diolata (by Yataka Shimaoka).
- Increased MiB armours.
- Moved Smoke Grenade back to Promotion 2.
- New Dragonfly Ufopaedia pic.
- Toxi Suit is now green.
- Zombies and other melee psychos now disregard danger.
- Neutral units fight better.
- Rebalanced Railguns, SMGs and The Kludge.
- Fixed a crash with The Special Client mission.
- Fixed goddamn Keep again.
- Softer cave rocks.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: mumble on September 01, 2017, 03:13:43 am
I'm a little worried this has absolutely BROKEN zombies : I don't have much time to test right now, but trying a run on magma lab with blackops guns, miniguns, and rpgs, I couldn't go more than 4 turns without wiping because zombies immediately B line for me even if I shoot them.

Granted, I've NEVER had success with the magma lab (combination of all those shotguns, and all those bullet sponges is an endurance test from hell, and I'm not sure how its INTENDED to be beaten. I do play on super human, but i save scum) but at least before I could last longer. If zombies aren't going to be pushed to flea from being shot anymore, you REALLY need to tweak TU's or other stuff, because man, that seems like it would be too much, especially since zombies are essential to progression IIRC

Also, an infector ends up surviving an AP rpg round just fine, and ends up taking several more bullets before dying : all this combined makes me think you should rethink how zombies are balanced slightly.

A few ideas, are making zombies exponentially slower when injured more, so injuries on them are more effective, making them squishier in general, and again lowering explosive / fire resistance. (zombies are sturdy because less organs are vital than humans right?...but fire and explosives shreds everything evenly.)

I might be wrong, and maybe zombies are doable, but considering 50 v 4  fights between zombies an my agents on super human, I cannot see these as possible now, if I cannot push them back with gunfire. Maybe even THIS is intended, but then capturing fat and infector zombies will be much nastier, and I really would like to at least see your results on trying magma lab with a dragonfly ship...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Meridian on September 01, 2017, 10:15:01 am
I'm a little worried this has absolutely BROKEN zombies : I don't have much time to test right now, but trying a run on magma lab with blackops guns, miniguns, and rpgs, I couldn't go more than 4 turns without wiping because zombies immediately B line for me even if I shoot them.

That's what's called a placebo effect :)

Due to a bug in code, the zombies are even less harmless than before. In closed quarters they behave more or less the same as before, in open spaces they even stop completely and don't attack (unless you move closer to them).

This will be fixed in OXCE+ 2017-08-30 and higher... but for now enjoy even more impotent zombies :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2017, 10:36:51 am
I'm a little worried this has absolutely BROKEN zombies : I don't have much time to test right now, but trying a run on magma lab with blackops guns, miniguns, and rpgs, I couldn't go more than 4 turns without wiping because zombies immediately B line for me even if I shoot them.

I completely agree, I have tried the M.A.G.M.A. Lab yesterday and I was completely owned... It was the same team I destroyed Red Dawn HQ with no problems.
...But I was using the fixed version Meridian mentioned. ;) With the one released, it shouldn't be too hard, though I haven't tested it.
Anyway, I have already decreased the threat level for this mission. I also made the zombie attack a bit less useful against heavily armoured foes.

Granted, I've NEVER had success with the magma lab (combination of all those shotguns, and all those bullet sponges is an endurance test from hell, and I'm not sure how its INTENDED to be beaten. I do play on super human, but i save scum) but at least before I could last longer. If zombies aren't going to be pushed to flea from being shot anymore, you REALLY need to tweak TU's or other stuff, because man, that seems like it would be too much, especially since zombies are essential to progression IIRC

Agreed.

Also, an infector ends up surviving an AP rpg round just fine, and ends up taking several more bullets before dying : all this combined makes me think you should rethink how zombies are balanced slightly.

I'm not going to change zombie units, but are playing with their numbers.

A few ideas, are making zombies exponentially slower when injured more, so injuries on them are more effective, making them squishier in general, and again lowering explosive / fire resistance. (zombies are sturdy because less organs are vital than humans right?...but fire and explosives shreds everything evenly.)

They have appropriate resistances.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 05, 2017, 05:39:54 pm
On a totally unrelated note, do you plan on adding any additional craft weapons, especially missles? IIRC Area 51 had something akin to the Stormlance, but with alien alloys instead of Elerium. Seeing how we already have alloy ammunition for pretty much everything else, an alien alloy fragmentation warhead on an air-to-air missile doesn't seem too far off, especially as a stop-gap measure for light missile hardpoints.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 05, 2017, 10:23:40 pm
On a totally unrelated note, do you plan on adding any additional craft weapons, especially missles? IIRC Area 51 had something akin to the Stormlance, but with alien alloys instead of Elerium. Seeing how we already have alloy ammunition for pretty much everything else, an alien alloy fragmentation warhead on an air-to-air missile doesn't seem too far off, especially as a stop-gap measure for light missile hardpoints.

Yeah, I plan to work on it a bit more. But I should identify what is needed first. I'll probably start with something to arm the MiG with...
I'm not saying no to an alloy missile, but how would it work? Why exactly would it be better than something made with Earth materials?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Lohland on September 06, 2017, 06:30:54 am
On a totally unrelated note, do you plan on adding any additional craft weapons, especially missles?

Here's a rocket, buddy. True, this is the final missile. Connect as a normal mod.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 06, 2017, 10:51:42 am
Here's a rocket, buddy. True, this is the final missile. Connect as a normal mod.

The Bomb to End All Bombs, eh? :P
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 06, 2017, 04:05:33 pm
I'm not saying no to an alloy missile, but how would it work? Why exactly would it be better than something made with Earth materials?

That mostly depends on what you want it to be. Should it be based on existing missiles or should it be something entirely new? Given how in the beginning you're essentially trying to catch up, upgrading existing technology seems like the most logical choice.
Alien alloys are described as being light and durable, so it would make sense that a missile constructed using alloys can either carry the same load further or a bigger warhead the same distance as existing missiles. Additionally the missile would likely be able to endure higher aerodynamic forces and could use more powerful propellant, making it more manouverable (i.e. more accurate).

If you want something new (lore wise), that bonus in manouverability could enable x-com to construct a penetration-type warhead (current missiles use blast, fragmentation or continous-rod warheads with proximity fuses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_missile)) that uses a solid core of alien alloys or something like a shaped charge alien alloy warhead to pierce outer UFO hulls. Nothing akin to an elerium warhead, but a definite step-up from the damage that the Stingray does.

As a sidenote, is the Avalanche really supposed to have a nuclear warhead? Wouldn't that cause all kinds of PR-shennanigans? X-COM can probably downplay crashed UFOs, but a growing number of aerial nuclear detonations over (possibly) inhabited areas is something entirly different. Also, if the sidewinder (which looks like conventional missile) is able to damage UFOs, would a nuclear warhead (and the associated problems) be absolutely necessary? I mean it's one thing to give a paramilitary organisation access to military hardware, but to give them unlimited access to nuclear weapons?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 06, 2017, 07:04:17 pm
Alien alloys are described as being light and durable, so it would make sense that a missile constructed using alloys can either carry the same load further or a bigger warhead the same distance as existing missiles. Additionally the missile would likely be able to endure higher aerodynamic forces and could use more powerful propellant, making it more manouverable (i.e. more accurate).

OK, better accuracy and possibly range, got it. Makes sense.

If you want something new (lore wise), that bonus in manouverability could enable x-com to construct a penetration-type warhead (current missiles use blast, fragmentation or continous-rod warheads with proximity fuses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_missile)) that uses a solid core of alien alloys or something like a shaped charge alien alloy warhead to pierce outer UFO hulls. Nothing akin to an elerium warhead, but a definite step-up from the damage that the Stingray does.

But as far as I know, anti-air missiles do not rely on hitting the target, they explode in its general vicinity. I'm not sure how an alien alloy core would help here. Making an actually ramming missile would probably drastically decrease accuracy (in game terms), especially against supposedly highly maneuverable UFOs.

As a sidenote, is the Avalanche really supposed to have a nuclear warhead? Wouldn't that cause all kinds of PR-shennanigans? X-COM can probably downplay crashed UFOs, but a growing number of aerial nuclear detonations over (possibly) inhabited areas is something entirly different. Also, if the sidewinder (which looks like conventional missile) is able to damage UFOs, would a nuclear warhead (and the associated problems) be absolutely necessary? I mean it's one thing to give a paramilitary organisation access to military hardware, but to give them unlimited access to nuclear weapons?

I think Avalanche is not exactly a nuclear missile, more like a plasma warhead (as portrayed in many settings, for example Fallout). It's pure sci-fi, but I think acceptable in X-Com setting.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 06, 2017, 09:26:46 pm
But as far as I know, anti-air missiles do not rely on hitting the target, they explode in its general vicinity. I'm not sure how an alien alloy core would help here. Making an actually ramming missile would probably drastically decrease accuracy (in game terms), especially against supposedly highly maneuverable UFOs.
Yes, that's what i meant by "new (lore-wise)" - because it would be near impossible with todays tech. The missile can be lighter and more manouverable, which would enable it to reliable hit such a target. If it hits, the alloy core would have much more kinetic energy than an expanding rod  or fragmentation warhead. Just theorycrafting here.

I think Avalanche is not exactly a nuclear missile, more like a plasma warhead (as portrayed in many settings, for example Fallout). It's pure sci-fi, but I think acceptable in X-Com setting.
Yeah, but everything else Plasma is locked behind alien research. As far as i can tell the Avalanche mostly resembles the AIM-54 Phoenix (the F-14 carried those), which would explain their range. The added damage would be due to the bigger warhead in comparison to other missiles.

BTW, i just noticed that the muton_armor0 only has twelve damage modifiers. Is this intended?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 06, 2017, 10:25:03 pm
Yes, that's what i meant by "new (lore-wise)" - because it would be near impossible with todays tech. The missile can be lighter and more manouverable, which would enable it to reliable hit such a target. If it hits, the alloy core would have much more kinetic energy than an expanding rod  or fragmentation warhead. Just theorycrafting here.

Yes, I get it. Makes sense to me, a layman. I'll note it down for the future, thank you.

Yeah, but everything else Plasma is locked behind alien research. As far as i can tell the Avalanche mostly resembles the AIM-54 Phoenix (the F-14 carried those), which would explain their range. The added damage would be due to the bigger warhead in comparison to other missiles.

All good points. I'll go with that.

BTW, i just noticed that the muton_armor0 only has twelve damage modifiers. Is this intended?

No, it's a bug - potentially a nasty one... Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Dr.Crowley on September 07, 2017, 08:44:38 am
About M.A.G.M.A. Lab mission - yes, it can be a tough one but it IS beatable. Well, I cannot be completely sure since I am playing on Beginner, but anyway you can complete this mission... if your agents will not be slaugthered by the HORDES OF MEGAZOMBIES right after deployment, that is. And since monster count for this mission has been reduced in recent versions, it became even more likely that you will survive.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: HT on September 07, 2017, 11:10:48 am

As a sidenote, is the Avalanche really supposed to have a nuclear warhead? Wouldn't that cause all kinds of PR-shennanigans? X-COM can probably downplay crashed UFOs, but a growing number of aerial nuclear detonations over (possibly) inhabited areas is something entirly different. Also, if the sidewinder (which looks like conventional missile) is able to damage UFOs, would a nuclear warhead (and the associated problems) be absolutely necessary? I mean it's one thing to give a paramilitary organisation access to military hardware, but to give them unlimited access to nuclear weapons?

I liked to think that in the original X-Com "orky philosophy" was being followed: In other words, if we're going to kill aliens, we might as well kill as much as we can while doing so.  :D

As for the MAGMA LAB, assuming things are similar to when I played it, Dynamite and grenades are your friends. Use them well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: mumble on September 10, 2017, 12:50:24 am
Last time I did the magma lab (before this update) I geared my people with all people having a landmine, everyone having TNT, and other heavy weapons, and still got my ass kicked.

This is why I keep commenting on a zombies explosive resistance, I get they have no vital organs, but I don't think they would be able to stand up straight after stepping on a landmine or being shot by an AP RPG. They just have such an insane amount of HP to burn through, and so many of them, that I cant seem to find an efficient way of killing them before I get nommed on by infectors. I dont think they have any weakness, persay, and it takes over 8 rounds of a typical round to drop a single zombie, so its a handful. Its less a tactical issue I feel, as a DPS issue... Then again, maybe I should try using stuff like the arasaka or the nitro express?


As for avalanches, couldn't they be like an RPG round but with a small detonation of a nuclear bomb? With like a shaped charge, then depleted uranium which then jets out in molten form on impact, much like a normal RPG round, but replacing copper with much heavier uranium, and a much stronger blast : I figure that would make it pretty effective.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2017, 08:41:23 am
If it's any help, I find heavy shotguns and light cannons generally work best against zombies.

As for the avalanche, it could work probably, but I lack the engineering knowledge. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Stoddard on September 10, 2017, 11:23:28 pm
As for avalanches, couldn't they be like an RPG round but with a small detonation of a nuclear bomb? With like a shaped charge, then depleted uranium which then jets out in molten form on impact, much like a normal RPG round, but replacing copper with much heavier uranium, and a much stronger blast : I figure that would make it pretty effective.

They can, in principle, the nuclear shaped charge was designed in 60s for the Project Orion.

See this (https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-create-a-nuclear-shaped-charge-a-nuclear-version-of-a-conventional-high-explosive-hollow-charge-in-a-sense-that-it-could-be-detonated-as-an-air-burst-over-a-target-to-destroy-a-deep-bunker-complex), for example.

In practice, though, surface to air or air to air nuclear-tipped missiles never used the shaping principle. This I suppose is because precise aiming it is very hard to achieve at typical hypersonic closing speeds, compared to just increasing the yield tenfold, or whatever the figure needed.

Given that in the setting outer UFO walls can be penetrated by man-portable munitions that are orders of magnitude below smallest nuclear warheads in existence (otherwise the squad and the map would just be obliterated every time), it makes no sense to use THAAD-style guidance packages, when the same effect can be achieved by just detonating ~10kt at ~50 meters distance, which is pretty much solved problem since 60s.

Edit:
The more I think the more Avalanche looks just like an  AIM-54 Phoenix (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix) with a small-yield warhead.

Besides, 'shaping' a high-altitude nuclear detonation won't make it any less obvious - it's just a flash and a boom, and some EMP. It's nothing like a surface-level one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 11, 2017, 12:20:24 am
Given that in the setting outer UFO walls can be penetrated by man-portable munitions that are orders of magnitude below smallest nuclear warheads in existence (otherwise the squad and the map would just be obliterated every time), it makes no sense to use THAAD-style guidance packages, when the same effect can be achieved by just detonating ~10kt at ~50 meters distance, which is pretty much solved problem since 60s.

I was going to post something similar, the gist of it being that constructing a nuclear shaped charge is technically not possible. Yes, you can focus the blast (see Orion Nuclear Pulse Units), but seeing how you need to compress the warhead to reach criticality, you cannot use it to form a shaped charge (i.e. something that results in a coherent jet of fluid metal). Shaped charges only work over small distances before the metal jet begins to brake up, so even if something like this was possible, you'd still need the missile to actually hit the target, instead of exploding it somewhere in the vincinity. Add to that that the warhead alone (sans shaped charge) would be about 100 kg (taking the W25 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIR-2_Genie) as an example here), i don't see this happening, at least not if the target is a UFO that can vastly outperform traditional aircraft. That was the reason i proposed this for a missile employing alien alloys, making it lighter and more manouverable.

Also i don't really see how adding a bunch of uranium in a shaped charge would make a difference if you detonate a 1 kiloton nuclear warhead in close proximity to the target. My guess would be that the added effect would be minimal at best. Just to remind you, a kiloton of TNT can be visualized as a cube of TNT 8.46 metres (27.8 ft) on a side (taken straight from wikipedia).

All of that aside, that still leaves us with the problem that x-com would have unlimited access to nuclear weapons and apparently detonates those at it's discretion, even over populated areas. You can't PR something like that away. I can see how the MIBs would be working against X-COM here if they are the ones running around having to neuralyz people :D

If the Stingray uses a conventional warhead that does about half the damage of the Avalanche, can the Avalanche really have a 1-2 kT nuclear warhead? Would it need to? Or could it not just be a regular missile which simply has a bigger warhead?



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: khade on September 11, 2017, 01:40:26 am
So has anyone seriously considered a hanger that can hold 2-4 small vehicles?  I understand that a 2x2 tile is at best difficult to get around for the hangers, but maybe there could be a variant that could hold more of the smaller vehicles?  Seems like it could be especially useful for X-Com Files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Stoddard on September 11, 2017, 01:47:15 am
Completely agree.

There is the W54 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54) though, ~23kg, while the Phoenix carried ~61kg conventional warhead.

If the Stingray uses a conventional warhead that does about half the damage of the Avalanche, can the Avalanche really have a 1-2 kT nuclear warhead? Would it need to? Or could it not just be a regular missile which simply has a bigger warhead?

Yeah, this way it's just a conventional Phoenix.

So has anyone seriously considered a hanger that can hold 2-4 small vehicles?  I understand that a 2x2 tile is at best difficult to get around for the hangers, but maybe there could be a variant that could hold more of the smaller vehicles?  Seems like it could be especially useful for X-Com Files.

That's quite an overhaul of the game code. To make the base count the craft size and available craft space just like storage space. Not that I wouldn't be delighted to see that. With dedicated craft hangars-without-the-doors, that aren't the invaders' spawn space.

1x1 hangars will be the simpler route, though.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: khade on September 11, 2017, 03:39:21 am
I just finished a Chupacabra hunt, says I got an artifact worth -10 points, but I can't see any artifacts.  My 1 civilian and 2 hunters died, so I got 2 double barrel shotguns, 4 ammo, 6 chupacabra corpses and 1 capture. Where does the -10 artifact fit in?

Edit

If we can do 1x1 or 2x1 hangers, for smaller craft, that would be very nice, but I've heard that the game has issues with those.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: mumble on September 11, 2017, 09:58:25 am
The negative score on artifacts is actually from the weapons the hunters dropped and you took. Its a little wonky, but sort of makes sense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Lohland on September 11, 2017, 08:11:39 pm
Is it planned in the future for something like the Personal Disruptor Shield ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 12, 2017, 01:58:22 pm
BTW, how far along are the MIB missions in 0.6.9? Still trying to get the "MIB activites" research topic, but the only MIBs i'm encountering are the ones on certain crop circle missions. Any way to get the the higher-ranked ones yet?

Could you maybe post something akin to a progression chart (mission triggers/encounters) of what's in the mod right now? I just feel that i'm missing out on some content that i should have encountered at some point, but i can't tell if that is due to bugs or simply messing things up on my part.

Also, how does armor work in regards to stun damage? I have been trying in vain to stun an ethereal speaker with a dart pistol (dart c). Small launcher and ethereal guardian also doesn't seem to work. Electric damage though seems to work just fine sometimes. Is this intended? Or is this due to the additional damage types you introduced? On that note, in which order are they listed in armor.rul?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 13, 2017, 07:06:52 pm
Is it planned in the future for something like the Personal Disruptor Shield ?

Possible, if the scripting engine grows big enough.

BTW, how far along are the MIB missions in 0.6.9? Still trying to get the "MIB activites" research topic, but the only MIBs i'm encountering are the ones on certain crop circle missions. Any way to get the the higher-ranked ones yet?

The MiB part is basically the same as in FMP - I haven't revamped it yet. But they do have a few missions.

Could you maybe post something akin to a progression chart (mission triggers/encounters) of what's in the mod right now? I just feel that i'm missing out on some content that i should have encountered at some point, but i can't tell if that is due to bugs or simply messing things up on my part.

I think more than we already have in the first post would be a spoiler... I like the player discovering (or not) some content, as it's an investigation/mystery-themed mod after all.

Also, how does armor work in regards to stun damage? I have been trying in vain to stun an ethereal speaker with a dart pistol (dart c). Small launcher and ethereal guardian also doesn't seem to work. Electric damage though seems to work just fine sometimes. Is this intended? Or is this due to the additional damage types you introduced? On that note, in which order are they listed in armor.rul?

I haven't done anything drastic to Ethereals, they're just pretty tough.

As for the damage types, the order is:, None, AP, Inc, HE, Las, Plas, Stun, Melee, Acid, Smoke, EMP, Electric, Psi, Warp.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: ohartenstein23 on September 13, 2017, 07:50:43 pm
Possible, if the scripting engine grows big enough.

It's already big enough, I've written scripts to make energy shield items, included in the Piratez script file.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 13, 2017, 08:02:07 pm
It's already big enough, I've written scripts to make energy shield items, included in the Piratez script file.

But do they work upon equipping?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: ohartenstein23 on September 14, 2017, 12:12:07 am
But do they work upon equipping?

Not quite all the way, if that's what you're getting at.  But they work when built in to armor (as a tag, not a built-in item), and when held in hand, just not anywhere else in inventory.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 14, 2017, 02:51:48 pm
The MiB part is basically the same as in FMP - I haven't revamped it yet. But they do have a few missions.

Thanks, but i've never played FMP, so i can't really tell which missions i "should" get. Again, the only ones i am getting are the crop circles MIB ones. Looking at the misisonScripts.rul, i need to research STR_MIB_ACTIVITY to enable the cover-up missions, but seeing how I never get anything but agents (from the crop circles) this never happens. As far as i can tell i STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING should spawn missions with MIB scientist, but so far this hasn't happened either. I don't really know how mission generation in openXcom works, but neither the coverup missions nor the meetings are included in the possibleMissions table upon starting a new game. Is this intended? What MIB missions can actually be encountered at the moment?

Also Hybrid Base missions (keeps?) are still being spawend as UFOs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 14, 2017, 06:49:21 pm
Yes, they should spawn, but not earlier than the end of second year (except the crop circles).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 14, 2017, 07:15:52 pm
Yes, they should spawn, but not earlier than the end of second year (except the crop circles).

Despite them not being included in the list of possible missions or regions.rul?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 14, 2017, 07:48:36 pm
Despite them not being included in the list of possible missions or regions.rul?

Yes, they use missionScripts (like pretty much everything that isn't UFOs).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 14, 2017, 08:00:14 pm
Yes, they use missionScripts (like pretty much everything that isn't UFOs).

Ok, thanks,  that kind of clears that one up for me, but i still don't understand why they don't have to be in the possible missions list when pretty much everything else is. But i guess that's more of a general question and not related to the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 14, 2017, 08:25:47 pm
Ok, thanks,  that kind of clears that one up for me, but i still don't understand why they don't have to be in the possible missions list when pretty much everything else is. But i guess that's more of a general question and not related to the mod.

I don't really understand... Are you asking why these missions aren't in regions? Well, for once, because they aren't UFOs but spawned missions...
Anyway, I don't like regions. They're useful for UFOs, but that's about it. mission scripts are way cooler.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 14, 2017, 09:24:45 pm
Uh...i don't mean to get on your nerves with this, and i'm an amteurish programmer at best, but STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING in alienMissions.rul includes ufo: STR_MANSION_MIB. That ufo is not defined in ufos.rul. I just tried in vain to get the MIB-Hybrid meeting to spawn and got the sectoid-hybrid every time, regardless of missionWeights. Removing the hybrid-sectoid mission spawns no ufos at all. Wouldn't it be simpler to just spawn the mission and removing the UFOs altogether (for hybrid bases as well)?

As long as the MIB crop circle missions only spawn agents, there is no way right now to progress along the MIB path (or are there base assaults that include the higher ranked MIBs?). How do you get to MIB activity when you can't get anything but agents from crop circles and the mission that's supposed to include MIB scientists doesn't spawn because of a missing ufo entry?

Like i said, i have no idea what you've actually implemented so far in regards to the MIB arc. I'm trying (in vain apparently) to find out how progression along that arc is supposed to work. That's way i was asking for some kind chart or description. What i've figured is that you (somehow) need to get your hands on STR_MIB_ACTIVITY to unlock the base and clean-up missions (research for STR_MIB_ACTIVITY has needItem: true), but STR_MIB_ACTIVITY doesn't actually spawn or drop in the crop circle missions. Seeing how interrogating normal agents doesn't yield any useful information (at least lore-wise -> Staff Input: Mysterious Man) i figured  STR_MIB_ACTIVITY might be supposed to spawn during the MIB-Hybrid meeting on the scientists, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.

So yeah, how is this supposed to work? Is it supposed to work at all at the moment?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 14, 2017, 10:17:05 pm
Uh...i don't mean to get on your nerves with this

No worries ;)

but STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING in alienMissions.rul includes ufo: STR_MANSION_MIB. That ufo is not defined in ufos.rul. I just tried in vain to get the MIB-Hybrid meeting to spawn and got the sectoid-hybrid every time, regardless of missionWeights. Removing the hybrid-sectoid mission spawns no ufos at all. Wouldn't it be simpler to just spawn the mission and removing the UFOs altogether (for hybrid bases as well)?

It would, and that's what will happen.

Anyway, whether sectoids or hybrids spawn depends on the race, not the UFO or mission. But still, why did I refer to a UFO called STR_MANSION_MIB when it doesn't exist? I can't remember...

Oh well, it'll all be overhauled anyway.

As long as the MIB crop circle missions only spawn agents, there is no way right now to progress along the MIB path (or are there base assaults that include the higher ranked MIBs?). How do you get to MIB activity when you can't get anything but agents from crop circles and the mission that's supposed to include MIB scientists doesn't spawn because of a missing ufo entry?

There are flying MiB crafts (the "cover up" missions).

Like i said, i have no idea what you've actually implemented so far in regards to the MIB arc. I'm trying (in vain apparently) to find out how progression along that arc is supposed to work. That's way i was asking for some kind chart or description. What i've figured is that you (somehow) need to get your hands on STR_MIB_ACTIVITY to unlock the base and clean-up missions (research for STR_MIB_ACTIVITY has needItem: true), but STR_MIB_ACTIVITY doesn't actually spawn or drop in the crop circle missions. Seeing how interrogating normal agents doesn't yield any useful information (at least lore-wise -> Staff Input: Mysterious Man) i figured  STR_MIB_ACTIVITY might be supposed to spawn during the MIB-Hybrid meeting on the scientists, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.

With time, yes. For now, they just fly about... Sometimes a base spawns.

So yeah, how is this supposed to work? Is it supposed to work at all at the moment?

Yes... sort of. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 14, 2017, 10:28:48 pm
There are flying MiB crafts (the "cover up" missions).

But those don't spawn because of the missing research topic (->researchTriggers: STR_MIB_ACTIVITY: true for base and cover-ups). That's why i was asking how you get MIB_ACTIVITY in the first place. When i said that everything i can get right now are the crop circle missions that's exactely what i meant. There are no other missions. No bases, no cover-ups, because of the missing research topic (which can't be researched because it is needItem: true and doesn't drop). :P

Anyway, whether sectoids or hybrids
Don't you mean sectoids or MIB?  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 14, 2017, 10:38:48 pm
But those don't spawn because of the missing research topic (->researchTriggers: STR_MIB_ACTIVITY: true for base and cover-ups). That's why i was asking how you get MIB_ACTIVITY in the first place. When i said that everything i can get right now are the crop circle missions that's exactely what i meant. There are no other missions. No bases, no cover-ups, because of the missing research topic (which can't be researched because it has needItem: true and doesn't drop). :P

Hmmm, you're right... But STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING should still work if you have hybrids.

...Yeah, it's a small windo, but it's there. :P

Don't you mean sectoids or MIB?  ;)

Yes :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: krautbernd on September 14, 2017, 11:29:58 pm
Hmmm, you're right... But STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING should still work if you have hybrids.

...Yeah, it's a small windo, but it's there. :P

How would that actually work? The only ufo that can spawn is crewed STR_HYBRID_SECTOID and doesn't contain any MIBs. The other UFO with the STR_HYBRID_MIB crew doesn't spawn because it isn't defined. As i understand it the only way to get the MIB arc to work (right now) is to remove the item requirement for MIB_ACTIVITY and (optionally) to switch the UFO type of STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING from STR_MANSION_MIB to STR_MANSION to get the meeting to work.

How would the arc work in case of FMP? Do you progress from circle to meeting to cover-up to base?
I think i'm mainly asking to understand the way mission generation works. I know that the arc isn't complete, but i'd like to get it to work along the lines that you've described it should work like.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 17, 2017, 12:58:51 am
How would that actually work? The only ufo that can spawn is crewed STR_HYBRID_SECTOID and doesn't contain any MIBs. The other UFO with the STR_HYBRID_MIB crew doesn't spawn because it isn't defined. As i understand it the only way to get the MIB arc to work (right now) is to remove the item requirement for MIB_ACTIVITY and (optionally) to switch the UFO type of STR_HYBRID_MIB_MEETING from STR_MANSION_MIB to STR_MANSION to get the meeting to work.

I found the problem - STR_MANSION_MIB was defined, but the first line (  - type: STR_MANSION_MIB) was missing. Therefore the route (or the part that we have) can progress now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.9 alpha: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: Xurantar on September 17, 2017, 11:17:31 am
Sorry i'm not really contributing to the tread, but i have a question :
Can you tell me where the sound track Rp_child_04 come from ?
I feel in Aw when i hear it in mission !

Thank for this mod ! Just discovered it, and it's really a great concept.
He gave me the need to redo all The X-files !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 19, 2017, 11:35:30 pm
Sorry i'm not really contributing to the tread, but i have a question :
Can you tell me where the sound track Rp_child_04 come from ?
I feel in Aw when i hear it in mission !

It comes from an old Polish game called Rezerwowe Psy, which had many great tracks. The artist is called Romstein, and the full title is Child of War.

Thank for this mod ! Just discovered it, and it's really a great concept.
He gave me the need to redo all The X-files !

Thank you, and you're welcome! :)

EDIT: Version 0.7 has been released.

- New battlescape palette (by RSS Wizard).
- New missions: Ooze Nest, Surf Time, Storm Seizure, Cult of Apocalypse Prison Break, Cult of Apocalypse City Riot.
- New units: Muckstar, Ooze.
- New weapons: Mosin Rifle, Agricutural Flamer.
- New craft: Osprey (by Bullet designer and MKSheppard).
- New craft equipment: Auxiliary Thruster, Afterburner.
- New Dossier: Millicent Weber (by Mumble).
- Added night indicator (by Dioxine).
- Rebalanced penalties for ignoring some missions.
- Dogs and Intelligence Center are now available after Basic Operations.
- HQ now gives storage.
- Leather Coat and all Durathread outfits (including Jumpsuit) are more resistant to electric damage.
- FN FAL damage increased.
- 5.56 ammo ignores 10% armor.
- All 5.56 weapons have a bit more accurate Aimed Shot.
- SA-80 renamed to L85, has slower auto shot.
- BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifle is weaker, but more accurate at short distances.
- Bigger Skorpion clip.
- Barrett rebalanced and given a better sound.
- Better sprites for: Sniper Rifle, Bolt Action Rifle (both by Dioxine), Dynamite (by Bloax).
- Mauser more expensive and with a bit less range.
- Laser Cannon, Gauss Cannon and Rail Cannon can no longer be produced and are bought from UAC instead (you still need to research them first).
- Now you can research (presumably) all weapons, but get no automatic acquisition from Promotions so you must research them individually (due to an engine limitation).
- BlackOps equipment acquisitions streamlined and divided into two stages.
- Fixed overpowered Barrett accuracy.
- Improved Miniguns.
- Some new articles and pictures.
- Zombie weapon is now less armor piercing.
- Less Zombies in Magma Lab.
- Less gangsters in Osiron Stakeout.
- EXALT HQ is no longer an infiltration mission.
- Fixed Black Lotus HQ and EXALT HQ escape.
- Fixed Red Dawn desert bases.
- Fixed Mandarin corpse.
- Fixed Ski Resort region.
- Fixed some inventory paperdolls.
- Minor fixes.

Special thanks to Kammerer, who diligently translated the game into Russian in a very short time!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: krautbernd on September 20, 2017, 02:03:48 pm
Nice. Was about to report that Elerium Mace is missing clipsize:-1, but you already fixed it in 0.7. Sorry to get into this again, but is MIB activity/identity obtainable right now? Otherwise you might want to remove the item requirements for these research topics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 20, 2017, 04:29:43 pm
Nice. Was about to report that Elerium Mace is missing clipsize:-1, but you already fixed it in 0.7. Sorry to get into this again, but is MIB activity/identity obtainable right now? Otherwise you might want to remove the item requirements for these research topics.

I have fixed that broken UFO entry, so it should work now.

I will pick up this route sooner or later and do some more meaningful work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: krautbernd on September 20, 2017, 06:08:25 pm
I have fixed that broken UFO entry, so it should work now.

Yeah, but the Ufopeadia entry is still locked, as you can't reasearch it without the item. This is also the case for most of the "Alien X" (Soldier, Medic, Engineer...) topics. All of them have needItem: true, but no item of that name spawns. The sole exception here is alien leadsres, since the Muton Preatorian has the chance of giving that topic for free.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 20, 2017, 07:12:06 pm
Yeah, but the Ufopeadia entry is still locked, as you can't reasearch it without the item.

Which entry?

Anyway, here's a fix for 0.7 (rulesets only). Main download was updated too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: krautbernd on September 20, 2017, 11:06:15 pm
MIB_ACTIVITY - this has a number of unlocks but it doesn't have a getOneFree entry, and as far as i know (if you haven't changed it) it does not drop.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 21, 2017, 06:34:04 pm
MIB_ACTIVITY - this has a number of unlocks but it doesn't have a getOneFree entry, and as far as i know (if you haven't changed it) it does not drop.

If it is unlocked by something, it will be available for research after that something (or someone) is researched. In this case, any MiB except for STR_MIB_SOLDIER gives that. Or am I misunderstanding something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Dr.Crowley on September 21, 2017, 10:00:42 pm
Just downloaded a new version and started a new game on Veteran difficulty just to take a look if something changed in early game (since I am not playing X-Com Files very often recently)... Well, this time I deceided to develop and expand much faster than I did in my first playthrough, so I had three full teams (12 agents) and the second base in progress near February, 1997. As I told before I stopped to actively play since version 0.6.7. so I have now idea what and when was added - this is sort-of-disclaimer, just in case.
Well, the early game is still a pistol porn. You have a lot of various pistol types (which are not so much different for me) and you have to deal with it. Pistol are okay for most situations in early game with two notable exceptions: chupacabras (retreat immediately OR PREPARE URANUS) and zombies (killing one or two zombies in Monster Hunt missions is not a problem but during Zombie Infestations you have to take down about 10 or 20 targets - and this means that you must neutraulize them ASAP). But I am not sure actually since I am got used to hunt chupacabras with HKMP5 and slay zombies with shotguns  ;D
I really, really like a new music, especially Cult Apprehension themes - Church of Dagon theme gave me chills when I heard it first time.
Great work anyway, Sol!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: krautbernd on September 22, 2017, 10:41:24 am
If it is unlocked by something, it will be available for research after that something (or someone) is researched. In this case, any MiB except for STR_MIB_SOLDIER gives that. Or am I misunderstanding something?

That would be the case if needItem: true wasn't set. Because it is set to true, you actually need an item that has the same STR name as the reasearch topic in your base inventory (see ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_%28OpenXcom%29#Research)) to research it. The only other way to get reasearch that's locked that way is via a getOneFree entry, but there are numerous entries that have neither and are essentially unobtainable at this time, like MIB_ACTIVITY and the ALIEN_[RANK] entries (except the ALIEN_LEADER topic, which the muton guardian has as getOneFree).

This is also the reason why progression in the MIB-arc past the crop circles and MIB-Hybrid meetings is not possible at the moment - the cover-up and base missions in the mission_scripts.rul have "researchTriggers: STR_MIB_ACTIVITY:true" set, which means they don't spawn until the reasearch is completed. As you can't actually reasearch MIB_ACTIVITY, those missions never spawn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 22, 2017, 09:14:33 pm
You have finally managed to get your point across and penetrate my thick skull... :P

Right, removing needItem: true on STR_MIB_ACTIVITY.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on September 22, 2017, 10:54:14 pm
Hey, hope the 0.8 will feature the MiB in action...just my 2 cents.. ::)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 23, 2017, 07:57:06 am
Agricultural flamer? Sounds cool! I hope a few farmers have this to make capturing them a LITTLE more nasty, and I'm honestly happy to have another incendiary weapon besides flares and grenades early on, especially to deal with those nasty fly monsters, but also those infernal dagon dogs. By the way, don't zombies have elerium in their body? Wouldn't this make them a LITTLE more flammable, considering they are a biological energy tank?... Flame is obscure enough of a weakness I feel it might work for them...

Also some very nice balance changes too. The storage on several things will make setting up bases much easier, and ease stress of storage slightly.

Neat update, can't wait to try it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2017, 01:47:44 pm
Agricultural flamer? Sounds cool! I hope a few farmers have this to make capturing them a LITTLE more nasty,

Probably not, as it'd be hard to make this rare enough - I only have five equipment slots per unit.

and I'm honestly happy to have another incendiary weapon besides flares and grenades early on, especially to deal with those nasty fly monsters, but also those infernal dagon dogs.

So you think the agri flamer is okayish as a weapon? Just wondering about balance.

By the way, don't zombies have elerium in their body? Wouldn't this make them a LITTLE more flammable, considering they are a biological energy tank?... Flame is obscure enough of a weakness I feel it might work for them...

Elerium is not really that flammable. Or rather, it burns very well, but is not easy to set on fire.

Otherwise we'd have to drastically increase weakness to fire across many strong units, especially Chryssalids.

Also some very nice balance changes too. The storage on several things will make setting up bases much easier, and ease stress of storage slightly.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 23, 2017, 06:43:19 pm
When it comes to personal protection / leather coat, can we just unlock them after personal protection? I doubt buying them would involve more than visiting a department store and grabbing a few, and its not like they have paperwork like kevlar and firearms do...I rarely use leather because of this, and shoot straight for kevlar.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2017, 06:49:34 pm
When it comes to personal protection / leather coat, can we just unlock them after personal protection? I doubt buying them would involve more than visiting a department store and grabbing a few, and its not like they have paperwork like kevlar and firearms do...I rarely use leather because of this, and shoot straight for kevlar.

WTF? It's exactly how it works. Is it bugged?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 23, 2017, 07:17:04 pm
Huh nevermind, I seem to remember needing to research leather coats....sorry, its been a long week and my brain is semi fried =(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on September 23, 2017, 08:45:03 pm
Hey, recovering an human farmer corpse resulst in -10.000$  :o in the sell/sack menu. I see it would cost money getting the rid of a former without getting noticed...(provided they are still "human") but it should lead instewad to a "mutated human farmer corpse" research topic, don't you think? It may unlock some other things... 8)

Edit: usual typos :'(

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 24, 2017, 07:44:58 am
What exactly would a dead body of a farmer reveal? An anal probe hidden deep within his bowels which isn't detected by an xcom cavity search? ;D

Interesting idea...

But really I could see this being interesting. Perhaps there could be a handful of items to research requiring a bio lab, from a discovered anal probe, genetic alterations, brain scans, or other items, showing experiments on the farmer in question. However, I think for balance reasons perhaps it should be first MANUFACTURING an autopsy, (for 10k) and then researching the manufactured item, otherwise bodies can be disposed without cost via research. This would also give more of a PURPOSE for farmers, and more deeply connect aliens with the earlier on (promotion 2 / 3) areas of the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 24, 2017, 12:49:12 pm
All right, I'll keep these ideas in mind, they do have potential. But I probably won't pick them up very soon, since I have more pressing plans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 25, 2017, 10:43:36 am
Not entirely fond of the new pallete, but mainly because all plasma weapons and other guns are now a strange military green, rather than the chrome kinda look. I'm not very fond of THAT, but other parts look nice I guess.

The agricultural flamethrower could be good, but honestly I think it could use a MILD auto fire. Its range is so limited, the least it could do is hit hard at that range, but a single shot of 30 damage really doesn't cut it. I understand if its not a full 8 like the military grade flamethrower, but 4 or 5 would be fair, and make it a decent weapon. But currently, 25% tu for a single 30 damage incendiary shot with mediocre accuracy is a joke. Add in at LEAST 3 more shots for a volley, if not 4, so this can be reliable. Otherwise its much better off using guns or melee.

Remember, just because it doesn't have the same pressure behind it as a formal military grade flamethrower, doesn't mean spraying gasoline on someone wouldn't be less effective. Just its slightly LESS gasoline =)

By the way, I would like to propose perhaps a few of dagons guys, and possibly followers of the Apocalypse have these. It would really fit the unorthodox weapon style, and particularly would fit the tanky setup of the chosen, assuming you can make them properly aggressive with it..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2017, 08:23:35 pm
Not entirely fond of the new pallete, but mainly because all plasma weapons and other guns are now a strange military green, rather than the chrome kinda look. I'm not very fond of THAT, but other parts look nice I guess.

Well, it's always something lost for something gained. I think the gains outweigh the losses, at least for now.

The agricultural flamethrower could be good, but honestly I think it could use a MILD auto fire. Its range is so limited, the least it could do is hit hard at that range, but a single shot of 30 damage really doesn't cut it. I understand if its not a full 8 like the military grade flamethrower, but 4 or 5 would be fair, and make it a decent weapon. But currently, 25% tu for a single 30 damage incendiary shot with mediocre accuracy is a joke. Add in at LEAST 3 more shots for a volley, if not 4, so this can be reliable. Otherwise its much better off using guns or melee.

That would mean I would have to make it less accessible, and that'd be hard to justify.
I think it's not bad as it is, but it's more of a tactical tool than a lethal weapon - at least in most cases.

Remember, just because it doesn't have the same pressure behind it as a formal military grade flamethrower, doesn't mean spraying gasoline on someone wouldn't be less effective. Just its slightly LESS gasoline =)

Well, it hurts AF :)

By the way, I would like to propose perhaps a few of dagons guys, and possibly followers of the Apocalypse have these. It would really fit the unorthodox weapon style, and particularly would fit the tanky setup of the chosen, assuming you can make them properly aggressive with it..

Sadly, the AI can't use limited range weapons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: dorsidwarf on September 25, 2017, 11:50:42 pm
Hey, ive been getting back into this mod for a while and after reinstalling as an upgrade from a really old version, I have a few questions

1) Did scientist rate get reduced? Basic stuff like kevlar is taking *weeks* and that is horrible because it costs millions and millions to get more than five dudes in a basement for r&d at the start.

2) chupacabras are still horrible (Sorry thats not a question, just fed up of these guys rushing from 100% concealment/ beyond flashlight range at night, consistently instagibbing my agents regardless of armour, skill, or any migitating factor oh and they always come in huge packs). (is there some way to disable/remove them because they add nothing but savescumming and not doing any mission they appear on to my game)

3)Are... are UFOs of all sizes meant to show up and begin conducting activities instantly  upon start? I managed to clear an entire UFO with one dude with a knife and more mangrit than a thousand normal agents but they're super constant. In my playthrough with the old version they didnt show up at all until late in the second year, after I'd eliminated a cult.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2017, 12:56:05 am
Hey, ive been getting back into this mod for a while and after reinstalling as an upgrade from a really old version, I have a few questions

Hi!

1) Did scientist rate get reduced? Basic stuff like kevlar is taking *weeks* and that is horrible because it costs millions and millions to get more than five dudes in a basement for r&d at the start.

No special changes, just the effect of having only 5. But I'm still rebalancing research costs.

2) chupacabras are still horrible

They are!

3)Are... are UFOs of all sizes meant to show up and begin conducting activities instantly  upon start? I managed to clear an entire UFO with one dude with a knife and more mangrit than a thousand normal agents but they're super constant. In my playthrough with the old version they didnt show up at all until late in the second year, after I'd eliminated a cult.

It's rare, but happens... ;) Congratulations on the UFO!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 26, 2017, 06:03:04 am
The agriculture flamer could at least use a doubletap volley, imo. sure, its powerful, but so is a sledge hammer, and it has a meager 6 tile reach. Besides, considering the aiming issues with it, I figure a double shot wouldn't raise prospective damage terribly high considering misses / partial hits. Its DPS in respective range wouldn't be anything beyond an UZI or other weapons, the only difference is it is incendiary. Even a 25 damage x 2  would work, just so long as its a multi shot of some sort

UFO's are around slightly early on, but being able to take one is pure RNG to be able to catch (they move so fast, you are lucky if you ever get to attack a landed one) and then taking it early on is its own task. I thought I was hot shit for taking a UFO with 4 guys and hunting rifles / shotguns, but with a KNIFE? You madman!!!

Oh, and yeah chupacabras are nasty, I don't bother with them much late game, they are just not worth the issue till you get landmines n stuff. nasty buggers. At least they are very fragile, so there is that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: khade on September 27, 2017, 04:08:22 am
I had some run ins with landed aliens first month, last version.  End result: I found an alien close to the car, shot it, grabbed everything and booked it.

Chupacabras somehow haven't been a problem for me, at least not much, I generally avoid nighttime wildlife encounters where possible.

As a note, I've been playing the third difficulty.

Is there a private van vehicle? I get that the private car is MUCH faster than the public car or van, but going back to 2 agents just isn't worth it, at all.  Anything you want to get to quickly is too much for two guys and a car.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 27, 2017, 11:19:58 am
Yeah, sometimes you can catch very early UFOs. I still wonder if it's okay.

There is no private van as such, but the next version will have a hummer that is similar in concept and has a capacity of 5. Also other new vehicles may be possible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on September 27, 2017, 12:38:21 pm
I've noticed that the mod has an ufopedia entry "ancient guns" so more ancient harware will be added? If so an handful of highlight may be USM3A1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun), Owen gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Gun) and the Sten (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten)? Also that Jatimatic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatimatic) smg would be cool, featured in the stallones movie cobra (perapphs witouth that kind of iron sight.  8) 8)

Edit: see that smg at the end of the video!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 27, 2017, 08:59:27 pm
Sten is in the game, it's fairly easy to find and early.

How about you just play the effing game for half an hour before trying to fix it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on September 27, 2017, 11:57:24 pm
Sten is in the game, it's fairly easy to find and early.
Unlucky me then, since I did not find it  :'(

How about you just play the effing game for half an hour before trying to fix it?

Actually tryed it for 3 hours (more ore less)...ok sorry won't bother anymore, since from now on i play rather infrequently :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: tkzv on September 29, 2017, 02:12:08 pm
Yeah, sometimes you can catch very early UFOs. I still wonder if it's okay.
By mid-1997 I managed to capture several landed UFOs with sectoids (who died without containment), and some weapons and UFO components I couldn't research. Then nothing until I start building fighters around mid-1998. Did UFOs stop landing altogether, or was it just my luck?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 29, 2017, 05:15:07 pm
The first month Sectoid research is a guaranteed mission and it always happens in your region. It consists of two UFOs: a Small Scout and a Mexium Scout.
Whatever comes later is pure chance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: tkzv on September 30, 2017, 04:04:34 am
"Homicidal Maniac/Soldier/Madman" cannot be researched. Do you plan to add something to it later or leave it like that?

If you did not plan anything, how about giving the piece of information that drove him mad?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2017, 12:31:14 pm
"Homicidal Maniac/Soldier/Madman" cannot be researched. Do you plan to add something to it later or leave it like that?

If you did not plan anything, how about giving the piece of information that drove him mad?
  • Psiclone. He could be an addict driven mad by attempts to quit. More likely for "madman" or "maniac".
  • Storm. Could've fried his brains with Storm. More likely for the soldier, I guess.
  • Church of Dagon Rationale.
  • Dagon Morph. They surely look scary.
  • Basic information about Church of Dagon.
  • Description of some scary monster, like Reaper or Cryssalid. Maybe werebeasts.
  • Syndicate Experiments. Gives a clue, but no leads to the Syndicate itself.
  • Alien Infiltration.

It's not a bad idea. Do you think it should work as getOneFree, so when you research them, a random article is displayed?
(Help wanted as there are many articles to write lol)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: tkzv on September 30, 2017, 01:30:07 pm
It's not a bad idea. Do you think it should work as getOneFree, so when you research them, a random article is displayed?
(Help wanted as there are many articles to write lol)
Yes. I think, researching madmen should open existing articles that don't lead to new inventions (no weapons, no UFO components and such) and don't imply much technical data (no autopsies and such). The list I gave is just that — pieces of information of no immediate value, but that would add to the bigger picture down the road. There are some more articles that I missed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on September 30, 2017, 07:00:21 pm
My thought is maybe he could provide leads to things. Perhaps a lead to MIB (maybe he was almost recruited, but found it morally repugnant, leading to the killing spree. Perhaps comes with a card showing an address list with MIB ontop, similar to the first movie, and xcom could raid it. Even if it had minimal information to grab, getting an MIB recruiter could at least break through the surface to unlock more.

It would also be a good way to introduce hybrids, like perhaps he sees his neighbors leaving their human skin, and decides he will kill everyone.

I think these 2 ideas would work, as currently the 2 archs aren't really touched much (afaik) so there would be good transitions into them : by getting leads.

I also like the idea of random bits of information found on the dark web, from chrysalis feeding videos, to cult of dagon execution videos. Ideas of random lore is OK, but i would hope the lore would be significant enough to reasonably force such madness, in which such people happening upon things "by chance" would make sense. Be it addresses for MIB meeting places, activity of hybrids, or other stuff.

I might try and see if I can write something about it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2017, 11:23:38 pm
OK, I've created the research entries for madmen. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 01, 2017, 12:42:18 am
I had a recent thought about tazer pistols. Shouldn't they, first off, have more difficulty penetrating armor? the prongs themselves dont penetrate well, and I doubt it would work great in most cases because of this. Even just a 25% armor + would be interesting

Second, couldn't tasers be used as a melee weapon with lower accuracy than the baton? I figure you could still shock people with just the pistol end, even if it was unwieldy to do so, and far less accurate.

Beyond that, any chance we could get a bulkier version of the pepper spray, like a police variant bear spray? A low range, small "explosive" shot which rolls against smoke resistance, lowers TU's of the victim, saps energy, and morale? And perhaps with a much harsher damage / TU reduction, to show the difference between 40$ civilian spray, and 100$ police grade bear spray, designed to incapacitate meth addled lunatics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: tkzv on October 01, 2017, 02:26:08 am
Second, couldn't tasers be used as a melee weapon with lower accuracy than the baton? I figure you could still shock people with just the pistol end, even if it was unwieldy to do so, and far less accurate.
There is a "Gun Melee" mod that gives a melee capability to any vanilla weapon. I've mane a similar mod for XCF, but Solarius won't include it, because rebalancing the game would be too much trouble. It's here if you want to try it: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5719.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 01, 2017, 03:15:15 am
I wasn't exactly suggesting gun melee in its entirety, simply because several guns simply aren't good weapons for melee blows, or bashing them would damage the gun possibly.  Actually using a gun as melee is wildly unpredictable unless the gun was MADE for it, and at most id suggest the piratez method if that was what I was talking about, where some guns have melee, others dont, but thats not my idea.

I suggest it for tazers because AFAIK this is actually completely possible, to let off an electrical current via 2 prongs without launching them,  essentially using a tazer pistol as an electric PROD. It wouldn't be a bludgeoning weapon even, as it would be too light, flimsy, and fragile for straight up punching someone with it, but the electrical current would still be viable as a "press against person and zap" as most tazer batons are now-adays, and even with the 2 spring / nitrogen fired prongs discharged, one could still probably use it on the battery alone to try and dispatch someone close range. I'm sure a prod would work far better obviously, but I could see it conceivably working, albiet with a high melee requirement to use with any reliability against anything besides a hapless civilian.  It wouldn't make it too overpowered compared to a tazer / stun baton combo, because the combo would be more flexible for those with more average range melee skills.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 01, 2017, 04:01:42 am
Hmmm... I'll think about it. But that AP penalty - ugh, make the taser even crappier than it is already?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7b alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 01, 2017, 10:56:56 am
Well, this would be an excuse to bring in bean bag rounds... I suppose the tazer vs armor would be  an issue, but at least on a realism standpoint, I doubt they could penetrate a leather armor. Wish I could honestly find data on the penetration of the prongs, but I doubt its much more than an air rifle to be honest.

Then again, heavier duty prongs are like flechettes with wide backs, essentially shanking the target with very short razor sharp rounds designed to penetrate, but with less power....so maybe the effect would work? after all, it only requires it to poke through and hit the flesh to take effect, so I figure that might work, even if it stopped most of the force, kevlar wouldn't do shit if both prongs poked into your belly. I suppose you could assume they are heavier "flechette" style prongs, which would penetrate armor like spike boar darts.

How about a compromise, of an armor penalty with further range? Or is this possible? Like the farther you fire it, the harder time it will have going through, while point blank all the velocity will push it through?

still, I do wonder about tazers having melee, just with far less effectiveness than the prongs (less armor penetration) and less reliability behind it. Though this might screw with balance a bit, as it would make many other melee weapons redundant.

....also, why are tazers crappy? Besides the short range, they seem pretty effective to me.... ...though, I did use like 4 shots to take down a dagon morph.

...maybe you are right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 02, 2017, 09:48:11 pm
Version 0.7.1 has been released.

- Added the spotter-sniper system (experimental) by Ohartenstein.
- New missions: League Apprehension, Zombie Hive, Vampire Castle.
- New units: Bloodhound, Ghoul, Ghoul Warrior, Vampire Queen, Strix (all by Dioxine), Seeker Drone (by SideQuests).
- New weapons: M-14, Iron Pipe, Battle Axe, Rusty Blade, Bow, Heavy Crossbow.
- New damage type: E-115.
- New craft: Hummer.
- New staff inputs.
- Changed one music track.
- Empowered dodging.
- Added more variants of cave maps.
- Added Greaser paperdoll.
- Cheaper Hybrid research.
- Rebalanced ship construction costs.
- Increased prices on some weapons.
- Rebalanced AKSU and Groza.
- Large explosives are better against terrain.
- Incendiary Grenade anti-morale effect a bit weaker.
- Catacomb walls and cave walls are weaker.
- Fixed some armour inconsistencies.
- Certain weapons available earlier.
- Skyraider has slightly less range.
- Incendiary ammo is more harmful.
- Fixed Light Cannon Ufopaedia entry.
- Fixed AA BS ammo prices.
- Fixed Cyberweb Plans sprite.
- Fixed Steppe Desert.
- Fixed EXALT HQ escape again.
- Fixed Sledgehammer.
- Fixed helicopter wheels.
- Fixed MiB arc.
- Fixed too short vision range on Polar Suits.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mrbiasha on October 03, 2017, 12:45:19 am
Oh, wow! That's quite a lot! Could you please elaborate on AKSU and Groza balance?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Slaughter on October 03, 2017, 08:15:02 am
Time to ressurect my LP, I feel
Spotter-Sniper System?

Enviado de meu SM-J500M usando Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on October 03, 2017, 09:17:06 am
Super! It's a pity there are an handuful of bug in 0.7.1, one seems to be pretty serious (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg88473.html#msg88473)  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2017, 11:08:43 am
Oh, wow! That's quite a lot! Could you please elaborate on AKSU and Groza balance?

Basically swapped some range-related values between them.

Super! It's a pity there are an handuful of bug in 0.7.1, one seems to be pretty serious (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg88473.html#msg88473)  :'( :'( :'(

These bugs were fixed yesterday, the current download is fine.

Time to ressurect my LP, I feel
Spotter-Sniper System?

Yes, it would be very very nice. I have a particular fondness for written LPs, and you are very good at it!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on October 03, 2017, 11:27:31 am
These bugs were fixed yesterday, the current download is fine.

Great! Another question, since in the version 0.7b were some problems with Man in Black misisons not spawning (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg88081.html#msg88081), these will instead began to appear from 0.7.1 and on and shall we wait another future relase?

Edit: please would you mind using my beretta M12 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3934.msg50888.html#msg50888)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2017, 12:05:26 pm
They should appear now, though their arc is mostly a stub now.

I will ask Dioxine to look at the Beretta, he's basically my armament manager.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on October 03, 2017, 12:49:37 pm
I will ask Dioxine to look at the Beretta, he's basically my armament manager.

Thanks! hey, I've oticed that the default video mode in options.cfg is set to tun a non-standard resolution (cannot remember it). Since it gave me display problems, would you please set to a standard one (eg. 640x480). :)

Edit: I'd also hubly suggest to grab some field equipment from kappa weapons mod (http://www.openxcom.com/mod/kappa-weapons-wip), eg the ak-47 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47), ak-103 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-103) and the H&K G36 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G36).

Edit 2: the FN-MINIMI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Minimi) has only 26 damage value?!?!? Don't know whether this is intended, but i'd expect some more :o Some weapons (mostly rifles and assault rifles) maybe need damage review.

Edit 4: I really wish national flags would be showed in the battlescape stast, in 0.7.1 appear only if you review your agents at the base.

Edit 3: some eapons like the MInebea smg and the FN FA-MAS may has a (slightly) brighter palette, since I have some problem in watching them...I'm shortsightened  :'( :'(

Edit 4: my early savegame attached, version 0.7.1. At superhuman difficulty in jan 1997 I've lost already a car an a couple of agents, plus variuosu equipment  8)

Don't know if I ever play again, in the meantime good luck with the mod!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2017, 06:46:26 pm
Thanks! hey, I've oticed that the default video mode in options.cfg is set to tun a non-standard resolution (cannot remember it). Since it gave me display problems, would you please set to a standard one (eg. 640x480). :)

The config file was there by mistake, you can delete it.

Edit 2: the FN-MINIMI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Minimi) has only 26 damage value?!?!? Don't know whether this is intended, but i'd expect some more :o Some weapons (mostly rifles and assault rifles) maybe need damage review.

Of course it's intended, it's a Minimi, not a Big Bertha.
Maybe your reality check needs a review :P

Edit 4: I really wish national flags would be showed in the battlescape stast, in 0.7.1 appear only if you review your agents at the base.

You would have to talk to Meridian about flags. But i imagine it would be difficult, considering palettes.

Edit 3: some eapons like the MInebea smg and the FN FA-MAS may has a (slightly) brighter palette, since I have some problem in watching them...I'm shortsightened  :'( :'(

OK, I'll check them.

Edit 4: my early savegame attached, version 0.7.1. At superhuman difficulty in jan 1997 I've lost already a car an a couple of agents, plus variuosu equipment  8)

Well... I don't get why people play on Superhuman (I don't), but okay. :D

Don't know if I ever play again, in the meantime good luck with the mod!

Grazie!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on October 03, 2017, 07:57:36 pm
Of course it's intended, it's a Minimi, not a Big Bertha.
Maybe your reality check needs a review :P

I expect me more pwer, in the game the ak is mre powerful, but since the mentioned assault riflfles uses 7.62 caliber ammo and the minimi 5.56, i suppose you're right! :D

Edit 3: some eapons like the MInebea smg and the FN FA-MAS may has a (slightly) brighter palette, since I have some problem in watching them...I'm shortsightened  :'( :'(

I meant these have a too much darker palette
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: khade on October 05, 2017, 01:16:53 am
I've read that modern official melee with a gun is to hit the target with the barrel, not the butt.  Apparently it does equivalent damage without undue damage to the gun or risk of pointing the gun where you don't want to shoot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on October 05, 2017, 02:45:12 pm
I've read that modern official melee with a gun is to hit the target with the barrel, not the butt.  Apparently it does equivalent damage without undue damage to the gun or risk of pointing the gun where you don't want to shoot.

Actually there is an Ufoextender mod included in openxcom named "gun melee" but works only with vanilla weapons, tkzv has made a PERL script that should work (i've not tested it) with weapons added by mods. For whose interestted have a ollok here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5719.msg88104.html#msg88104)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mrKos on October 05, 2017, 07:06:52 pm
Hey. I am writing to pay homage. This mod is already masterpiece. To begin with, I see how I change the world, I see the plot, I see a story. It was not in the original game. This is not in new games. How this world is slipping into the abyss of cyberpunk. Because of the efforts of various terrible cults, evil corporations, dangerous loners and Xcom. I did not go to the end of the game, but I already feel that for the victory, mankind will pay too much price.
The story of the transformation of a small agency into a conglomerate, holding for the eggs of heads of state, secret services, the UN is interesting and plausible. Xcom, struggling with the enemy, more and more becomes like him.
The accident has not been lost. The novice in fury rescued the detachment, the tragic loss of the veteran, the agent saving the life of the civilian. All this remains. I would like to see such a series. Thank you.
Do not judge my English language strictly. I do not know the language, but I want to thank Solarius Scorch.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 05, 2017, 08:53:52 pm
Thank you very much for the kind words. It means much to me, and especially since you are highlighting the less obvious aspects of the game. Yes, this is pretty much what I am aiming for, though I wouldn't have described it this way before; so I was very happy to read your comment, as it gives me some new perspectives I haven't realized.

As for the mod itself, it is still far from having been done. The early game is pretty much ready (though still open for expanding it further), but late game is extremely skeletal. You can of course finish it, but once you have alien tech, Cydonia isn't really that far. Also the entire "underworld" arc is completely absent from the game, except for the secret caves and some still unreleased unit graphics.

Right now my work is going in two very broad directions:
1. Develop the underworld arc.
2. Make Cydonia harder to obtain (probably will require finishing all other arcs first).
But these two goals are still overrun by smaller (but still pretty big!) projects, like new Cult of Apocalypse missions, the Zombie arc (fortunately, mostly done by now in the minimal form) and countless minor things. Oh well - nothing to do but keep at it!

Again, many thanks. And have fun!

PS. For those of you who don't go to Discord, the current version 0.7.1 is somewhat borked - the spotter/sniper AI has some issues and it makes many battles easier. It should be fixed soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: niculinux on October 05, 2017, 09:44:01 pm
[...] the current version 0.7.1 is somewhat borked - the spotter/sniper AI has some issues and it makes many battles easier. It should be fixed soon.

Not for me..because i'm a complete dud!!  :'( :'(

Speaking seriously i got the feeling that human enemies are almost done, essenctially only cult of apocalypse and Man in Black are little more than a stub. I would suggest to focus on them, then the rest...thanks again for the intriguing mod!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: tkzv on October 07, 2017, 02:48:12 am
Could Hummer description state that it is not a transport for undercover missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2017, 02:49:35 pm
Could Hummer description state that it is not a transport for undercover missions?

OK, done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 07, 2017, 07:56:18 pm
Is the sporting rifle supposed to be a high powered air rifle, or a fancy ruger 10/22?

Either way, I really don't think it should cost 3 grand : both of these can be bought for less than 300$ in my own town. And of course, earlier in 1998, they would be even less. These things are cheaper than pretty much all pistols but a hipoint 9mm.

if it is indeed an air rifle, can you make the shots weightless? The pellets for those things really are TINY, to the point a tin of 200 shots is about as heavy as a rifle round.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2017, 08:01:59 pm
Is the sporting rifle supposed to be a high powered air rifle, or a fancy ruger 10/22?

More like the latter.

Either way, I really don't think it should cost 3 grand : both of these can be bought for less than 300$ in my own town. And of course, earlier in 1998, they would be even less. These things are cheaper than pretty much all pistols but a hipoint 9mm.

Yeah, and a sniper rifle would realistically cost ten times as much as in XCF. :)

if it is indeed an air rifle, can you make the shots weightless? The pellets for those things really are TINY, to the point a tin of 200 shots is about as heavy as a rifle round.

Even if it was, it would be very unwise to assign weight zero to an item... It would cause much weirdness. (Even weight 2 is borderline inadequate, with how far can you throw it.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 07, 2017, 09:33:56 pm
I getcha when you say "fancy sniper rifle" but its STILL a 10/22. an ak47 is very similar in accuracy parameters, more reliable, better calibur, costs more steel, has more machining, but costs less IIRC.

Keep in mind, a decked out 10/22 cost around 700$. Default 10/22 is around 150, and a custom stock, mag, barrel, scope, and receiver are all probably under 600$.  Sure, it might be fancy, but its still 22LR, which is very easy to manufacture for compared to a 7.62, as the tolerances are stupidly forgiving.

I guess id just ask for you to show me a custom 22 rifle over 2k, because I don't think they exist =) I've seen people turn a hipoint into a custom pistol which performs better than a 1911, but the cost STILL never exceeds 1500 for total costs

Speaking of throwing, can items change how they effect being thrown? I expect a clip would be easier to throw farther than some other larger item with the same weight.... and obviously a low weight item would have a little less range than a featherweight item. Density has a big influence on an item to be flung long distances.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 07, 2017, 11:13:59 pm
Let me repeat: I'm not going to discuss pricing in XCF. Just no. And that's because it's always been completely fictional in X-Com, and making it more realistic wouldn't be a good idea.
Remember that your resources come from the Council. Some of it is the money they pay you, but it's not all; they also cover much of your expenses.

As for throwing ranges, AFAIK it's impossible to set them per item. You can only change throwing accuracy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: ohartenstein23 on October 08, 2017, 12:37:07 am
About the throwing ranges, the only way to "set" them is to define the weight of the item.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: khade on October 08, 2017, 01:53:20 am
If it helps, I always considered the pricing to be a mix of 'traditional' government waste, bribes and the money being as much favors as actual cash.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: tkzv on October 08, 2017, 01:55:45 am
Can there be "Prisoners" and "Caged animals" filters in sell/sack screen?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 08, 2017, 07:55:29 am
I just found out a nasty thing about CQC... friendly fire.

I was arresting an exalt suspect, who had an ax, and I had 3 dudes outside the warehouse, another with a sporting rifle on watch

2 guys with pistols and tazers, another with a shotgun. Gambled on overwatch being enough to protect me

Guy runs up, and overwatch fires once hes in melee range, and he pushes the agents pistol over to shoot the other agent in the gut, and another bullet into the ceiling. Another guy shot him, incapping him. The agent who got shot survived, I was just glad it wasn't a shotgun blast, because that would of been a mess! Also, is there a way to drastically lower accuracy of thrown off shots? Seems a little odd shots always go straight up or to the side, when a violent melee should make it extremely unpredictable...

Both survived obviously, but this gave me a nasty idea for black lotus : what about giving warriors, or even ninjas, some sort of drugged smoke bombs? Something to lower reactions, lower energy on hit, and deal stun damage. Obviously far less smoke than a traditional smoke grenade, but enough to blind someone on a direct hit, and impeed their next turn. Then they would have an opportunity to attack, and would fit with the trickery nature of them.

On another note, I had an idea for opening up more obscure quests : maybe a contact for a group is ID'd (a police officer, politician, gang member, ect) and verified for being aware of a case, but uncooperative, and xcom is sent in to nab them? Would be interesting for opening up stuff with hybrids or other groups

Also, using the sniper code, is it possible to give high level red dawn mortars to fire? I think it would be interesting to have a mortar guy with a backup pistol (but can AI have a 2 handed weapon, and a backup gun?) firing shells with poor accuracy with a spotter giving information over radio. And it would fit the militaristic tactics of the group.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 08, 2017, 12:26:47 pm
Can there be "Prisoners" and "Caged animals" filters in sell/sack screen?

Yes, I can do that. I plan to anyway.

Both survived obviously, but this gave me a nasty idea for black lotus : what about giving warriors, or even ninjas, some sort of drugged smoke bombs? Something to lower reactions, lower energy on hit, and deal stun damage. Obviously far less smoke than a traditional smoke grenade, but enough to blind someone on a direct hit, and impeed their next turn. Then they would have an opportunity to attack, and would fit with the trickery nature of them.

I'm all for such toys, but I don't think it's doable right now to a satisfactory degree. If someone says otherwise, please elaborate how.

On another note, I had an idea for opening up more obscure quests : maybe a contact for a group is ID'd (a police officer, politician, gang member, ect) and verified for being aware of a case, but uncooperative, and xcom is sent in to nab them? Would be interesting for opening up stuff with hybrids or other groups

Can you explain? You think something like the apprehension missions?

Also, using the sniper code, is it possible to give high level red dawn mortars to fire? I think it would be interesting to have a mortar guy with a backup pistol (but can AI have a 2 handed weapon, and a backup gun?) firing shells with poor accuracy with a spotter giving information over radio. And it would fit the militaristic tactics of the group.

I think it should work, but first I want to make sure the system works correctly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: mumble on October 08, 2017, 06:40:35 pm
Very similar to the apprehension mission, except perhaps a little private security, a steep  cost for killing the VIP, and slight cost for killing security. They aren't criminal cultists, after all, so gunning a mayor down in the street will look very bad.

So yeah, a lot like apprehension, but harder on the player, and with different leads.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.1 alpha: Breaking The Waves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 08, 2017, 10:09:55 pm
Very similar to the apprehension mission, except perhaps a little private security, a steep  cost for killing the VIP, and slight cost for killing security. They aren't criminal cultists, after all, so gunning a mayor down in the street will look very bad.

So yeah, a lot like apprehension, but harder on the player, and with different leads.

Yeah, I keep adding such low-cost missions all the time. So you can expect more things like this.

Also, today I have added categories to all items - corpses, captives, treasure, etc. So at least this one is fulfilled. ;)

EDIT:
Version 0.7.2 has been released.
- Expanded item categories for better Geoscape use.
- New caves mapblock (by Dioxine).
- Blasters cost more Elerium.
- Fixed spotter/sniper code.
- Fixed underwater gear.
- Fixed some visual glitches on maps.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 09, 2017, 04:44:20 am
I just noticed you added black people to exalt : which solved that one lore problem (in my opinion) so I appreciate that. Though it seems corpses retain the same skin color.

Is there any way to fix this? Also applies to chosen of dagon as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 09, 2017, 08:20:30 am
Is there any way to fix this? Also applies to chosen of dagon as well.

First of all, it primarily applies to X-Com agents. Nobody has ever mentioned this, though.

Can something be done about it? Probably not, unless maybe with scripts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 09, 2017, 09:18:38 am
Guess I never noticed it with agents, odd  :-X

By the way, now that the AI for "civilians" is different, military assistance missions are amazing! They actually feel like a pretty rad experience, and aren't total slaughters!

Seeing military gun down zombies in the dark while others are hacked down by vampires is amazing, and really gives the vibe of military calling you in for a look while they do (some) of the heavy lifting.

my only complaint is that military personnel dying takes away far too many points. They are MILITARY personnel after all, they sign up for that stuff, so I think their death value should be half, or even a third just so those missions aren't a total failure in terms of points just because people die.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 09, 2017, 11:28:40 am
Thanks :)

As for points cost, they are already much cheaper than civilians. This is hard to balance though, so I claim no superiority here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Taberone on October 10, 2017, 08:39:34 am
Came back to openXCOM to try out this mod after reading about it on Tv Tropes and I must say, this is really good so far. I thought I was gonna hate the two-seater car thing because it won't feel like a meatgrinder like original XCOM (Nothing like coming to a mission with 14 rookies and coming back with only a handful of survivors), but I actually loved it.

Having to go at missions with only two agents at once (or even one agent, if the other one gets wounded and you don't hire replacements until it's too late like me) is definitely challenging and a nice change of pace.  The whole conspiracy thing with shutting up farmers by tazing them within 10 turns and the men in black vibe is pretty nice, too.

Only gripe I have with X-COM Files so far is the "You lose at close combat" thing. Not sure what exactly it is, but my Agent decided to whip around in the wrong direction and shotgun the other Agent in the face rather than shoot the cyber-gorilla(?) thingy trying to beat him to death.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 10, 2017, 02:46:02 pm
The close combat thing is a feature where if you are within 1 tile of an enemy, there is a roll between yours / their melee state, to see if CQC failed or succeeded.

if you succeed, you shoot them in the face. If fail, they push the gun away. And vice versa.

this applies to you too obviously, so you can use a high melee person to breach small rooms to great effect.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Genesis200028 on October 11, 2017, 02:29:40 am
Is there a list of the hotkeys added by The X-com Files somewhere? If there is one would you please link it to me and if not would you please create one.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Taberone on October 11, 2017, 05:43:53 am
Are Black Lotus gangers more important than the other cults (EXALT, Red Dawn, etc)? I've noticed that whenever I do missions against them, I get a special loading screen showing some lady with two swords on her back. Other cults seem to get the same loading screen background, but not the Black Lotus.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 11, 2017, 07:25:08 pm
I'm pretty sure it was just a custom made graphic for it, and perhaps all cults will get them in due time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2017, 07:31:53 pm
Is there a list of the hotkeys added by The X-com Files somewhere? If there is one would you please link it to me and if not would you please create one.

Thank you.

OK, I'll do that. It's not easy though, since I no longer remember what is in OXCE+ and what isn't. :)

Perhaps Meridian has such a list somewhere? I just don't know.

Are Black Lotus gangers more important than the other cults (EXALT, Red Dawn, etc)? I've noticed that whenever I do missions against them, I get a special loading screen showing some lady with two swords on her back. Other cults seem to get the same loading screen background, but not the Black Lotus.

Mumble is right: they aren't more important, it's just that I haven't found proper backgrounds for some factions. It's a work in progress.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: jinxed on October 12, 2017, 08:38:05 pm
Hi there!

I created an account to salute you for this wonderful mod!(and to have some questions anwered, actually ;D)

First of all, the praise. I didn't expect this to be as enjoyable as it turned out to be :) I'm usually pretty skeptical when it comes to full conversion mods, as they more often than not turn out to be too bloated and too ambitious for what the game engine can offer.
I tried out Piratez!, and while I was deeply impressed with what has been achieved with it on the technical side, its bloat-factor soured it for me(this, and that it's slightly too silly in its oversll tone for me).

Your mod however, won me over with its great mission variety, and the corresponding variety in the mission dynamics. There seems to be alyways a new challenge around the corner, which I cannot praise enough. Also, you have managed to create unprecedented atmosphere for some of the missions.

A Blood Moon mission which I played just recently comes to mind. It was a true survival horror experience in a XCOM game with plenty of "shitshitshitshitshit"-moments. Pure Gold, hats off, Sir!

+1 for the implementation of some of the best of Mark Morgan's work. Overall, the selection of tunes is great, and adds a lot to the flavor of the mod.

Now off to my questions and remarks about the balancing.
I'm playing a Superhuman campaign, and currently I'm in Aug'98. So far things have been going well, I'd say. I have a good roster of Agents, and I was able to bring 2 real labs online in April, so that I'm sporting 65 Scientists now who tear through the research tree.
I successfully assaulted 3 Cultist Bases with the exception of the Black Lotus, which brings me to

Question 1: I hate these stupid Ninjas. I tried an assault on a Base which was just in reach of my Dragonfly. It started off well, until the first panic wave kicked in among the Lotus, when I suddenly lost half of my team to these damn assassins within 2 turns. Since I had no clue how many more of them were on the map, I cut my losses and bailed.
So, do I *have* to thwart all these cults to progress the game? Because I really don't have a lot of desire to try this again, at least not before I have access to Proxies which I can spam around.
The invasion is around the corner, and I don't want to be stalled in terms of crucial tech.

Question 2: Related to the question above, what is my window of opportunity for eliminating these cults? Do I better do this before Jan'99 or can I wait a bit longer?

Question 3: Surf Time/Ski Resorts. Are these missions important? I find them to be extremely unfair, with questionable value. I did one Surf Time mission, and it required a true save/reload fest to survive it, which I despise. But, since I couldn't bail I saw no other chance.
I got a live Osiron Goon out of that mission, so I'm wondering whether doing another one these would bear any meaningful yields for me.
Otherwise, I'd just ignore them.

Question 4: Facilities like the Intel Center, the BioLab and the HQ. Compared to real Labs those seem to have lost their relevance. Do I need to still run them, or can I swap them out for regular Labs?

Now off to some remarks and observations.

- The risk/reward ratio for the missions seems to be rather off at times. Resolving a piss easy Madman Rampage can easily yield more than 500pts on the scoreboard. Now compare that to the first Dossier mission I got yesterday, which involved "Meridian the Hunter". Freakishly hard, 2 dead Agents and the rest battered badly. I got 50ish points for that, and a fancy Plasma weapon I won't be able to research before I have another 30 of them in my stores.
That was pretty underwhelming to say the least.

- I know, I'm in an absolute minority here regarding the following, but I mention it anyway. I'm not a fan of the idea to bring in just about every real world Assault Rifle, MG, Pistol, and SMG. It works for Jagged Alliance, but here I'm just facing an abundance of weapons with laughable differences clogging up the inventory screens.
I prefer every weapon/item introduced into the game to be distinct(FMP did a great job with that). Half a dozen 5.56mm ARs don't fit that bill. But that's just me, and I know that's not gonna change.

I have more on my mind, but this post is already long enough. Again, thank you for this great effort!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: khade on October 12, 2017, 09:13:25 pm
I don't know the answers to the other questions, but regarding the HQ, it officially counts as really crappy worldwide radar, as long as you have one, anything you notice will stay visible until it leaves the planet.  The negative is that you don't really know the range of your actually semi effective radar, but that seems like a minor problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2017, 09:33:21 pm
Many thanks for your kind words, Jinxed! I am truly grateful. Especially at this early stage.

Now, for the questions:

Question 1: I hate these stupid Ninjas. I tried an assault on a Base which was just in reach of my Dragonfly. It started off well, until the first panic wave kicked in among the Lotus, when I suddenly lost half of my team to these damn assassins within 2 turns. Since I had no clue how many more of them were on the map, I cut my losses and bailed.
So, do I *have* to thwart all these cults to progress the game? Because I really don't have a lot of desire to try this again, at least not before I have access to Proxies which I can spam around.
The invasion is around the corner, and I don't want to be stalled in terms of crucial tech.

Yes, Black Lotus has its quirks, and Assassins are universally hated. (It literally seems to be the most feared and despised enemy in the game, judging from the players' reactions. :) ) There are ways to partially counter them, such as using melee resistant armours (like Bio-Exo Suit) and motion scanners. It's never a cakewalk though, and I also typically lose some people in these missions. I tend to avoid larger Black Lotus operations fro this very reason, unless I need a particular capture. So... you're not the only one. But I think it's fine, it's good to have hard or quirky missions if they aren't forced onto you.
You don't have to thwart every single cult to win the game, but some content may remain inaccessible.

Question 2: Related to the question above, what is my window of opportunity for eliminating these cults? Do I better do this before Jan'99 or can I wait a bit longer?

There are no specific time constrains. It's not a game where you have to "make it" before a set date or lose. Of course the difficulty grows, but much of this results from your research, not simple time progression. (With the obvious exception of things like alien activity and some less obvious ones, like certain missions.)

Question 3: Surf Time/Ski Resorts. Are these missions important? I find them to be extremely unfair, with questionable value. I did one Surf Time mission, and it required a true save/reload fest to survive it, which I despise. But, since I couldn't bail I saw no other chance.
I got a live Osiron Goon out of that mission, so I'm wondering whether doing another one these would bear any meaningful yields for me.
Otherwise, I'd just ignore them.

Almost all missions are optional. These give some decent rewards and allow for a change of pace, but if you really don't feel up to them, you don't have to do them.

Question 4: Facilities like the Intel Center, the BioLab and the HQ. Compared to real Labs those seem to have lost their relevance. Do I need to still run them, or can I swap them out for regular Labs?

To elaborate on Khade's correct answer:
* HQ is a general, but small lab. It doubles as both Bio lab and Intel lab, so if you have one in your base, you only need the two others for extra scientists.
* Intel lab allows for interrogation of enemies and various research related to intelligence.
* Bio lab allows for studying alien creatures.
* Lab lab only provides scientist slots and you can have many of them in one base. Without any other lab types its research selection is limited to tech and such.

- The risk/reward ratio for the missions seems to be rather off at times. Resolving a piss easy Madman Rampage can easily yield more than 500pts on the scoreboard. Now compare that to the first Dossier mission I got yesterday, which involved "Meridian the Hunter". Freakishly hard, 2 dead Agents and the rest battered badly. I got 50ish points for that, and a fancy Plasma weapon I won't be able to research before I have another 30 of them in my stores.
That was pretty underwhelming to say the least.

It's nice to hear at least one story where the Hunter put up a reasonable defence. ;P I keep hearing how defenceless he is :P
But yeah, missions... vary. I don't aim for perfect balance though, I personally like the uneven pace.

- I know, I'm in an absolute minority here regarding the following, but I mention it anyway. I'm not a fan of the idea to bring in just about every real world Assault Rifle, MG, Pistol, and SMG. It works for Jagged Alliance, but here I'm just facing an abundance of weapons with laughable differences clogging up the inventory screens.
I prefer every weapon/item introduced into the game to be distinct(FMP did a great job with that). Half a dozen 5.56mm ARs don't fit that bill. But that's just me, and I know that's not gonna change.

Rest assured I do not want to put too much either. Adding weapons is easy, I have more than enough unused sprites, but I always differentiate. Obviously some of them are more similar to one naother than others, but there are compromises to be made.

I have more on my mind, but this post is already long enough. Again, thank you for this great effort!

Have fun! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: tkzv on October 13, 2017, 04:24:06 am
Question 3: Surf Time/Ski Resorts. Are these missions important? I find them to be extremely unfair, with questionable value. I did one Surf Time mission, and it required a true save/reload fest to survive it, which I despise. But, since I couldn't bail I saw no other chance.
They become reasonably easy with dart pistols. Until then — clubs and cover, because allowed ranged weapons suck. Fortunately, the enemies are not strong.

- The risk/reward ratio for the missions seems to be rather off at times. Resolving a piss easy Madman Rampage can easily yield more than 500pts on the scoreboard.
It's very much luck of the draw. I once got the madman in the opposite corner of the map in a warehouse with a dozen civilians. No chance to get positive score without cheating.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: LuigiWhatif on October 13, 2017, 05:54:04 am
I remember hearing something about a research to end the crop circle/abduction missions.  Is that in yet?  If so, what do I need to do it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Taberone on October 13, 2017, 06:06:57 am
Do shotguns share the same ammo, or does every single shotgun use shotgun shells that are incompatible with each other? Haven't tried using any shotgun other than the 8-round Pump Shotgun yet. Pump Shotgun is really good, and I like the range on it, too. It's not your typical videogame shotgun that can only shoot up to three centimeters before the pellets magically self destruct in midair. The range seems pretty realistic, and I think the shotguns are going to be my favorite weapons in this mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 13, 2017, 06:54:56 am
Really depends. Pump uses its own ammo, the "shotgun"  and blackops shotgun use the same shells, and all other shotguns have their own shells. I suppose you could make some of them interchangable, maybe... but I'm not sure how that would balance

shotguns are nice, but they don't penetrate armor well at all, so I prefer rifles generally. Also, I find I prefer slugs over buckshot, because such a damage burst is handy.

I also like the double barrel shotgun, for what its worth, the ammo is odd to handle (2 shot pieces) but the gun performs great in all other respects.

just be aware of how it performs against armor, buckshot can often bounce off harder armor pretty easily, its not an issue early on, but higher grade cultists have high armor and HP which makes shotguns less ideal.


By the way solair, I think "shotgun" could really use another name...maybe Remington, or something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Taberone on October 14, 2017, 02:18:42 am
Is the SKS supposed to be weaker than the Colt? A .45 is more of a manstopper than a rifle, frequently killing cultists with one or two well-placed shots. Meanwhile, two shots from the SKS don't even seem to faze enemies until I shoot them a third time. Could just be the RNG, though, since XCOM damage is really random. Might need to use the SKS more, but I've only got the one I've looted from a dead cultist.

Had a mission to stun some investigators who knew too much way before trying out the SKS rifle. One of them spawned in an impossible-to-reach area, so I had to shoot him. Now I've got a civilian corpse I can't get rid of without losing money for some reason?

Is there a way to override the "Mission Complete - Returning to Base" behavior? I can't complete one mission and immediately respond to another one, I gotta return to base first and THEN respond to the mission. There's enough fuel left for the public transport.

Also, where does the Black Lotus loading screen come from?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 14, 2017, 03:33:32 am
I've mentioned this with the colt, recommended giving colt a +10/25 armor but solair wouldn't have it. I think its a little too powerful too early, i agree. Honestly, I even think this should apply to magnums, they are an absolute STAPLE early on since they deal the highest damage till explosives / alien alloy ammo for rifles. I get they are powerful guns, but flat / rounded rounds are ALWAYS less efficient against armor than rifle rounds : kevlar for instance can stop small caliber pistols, but don't do crap against rifle rounds or blades : because the wider round has more opportunity to bounce rather than poke through. Granted, slugs and 44s may force through them / cause lethal blunt force trauma, but the kevlar will do more than it would for a rifle round. And even level 3a body armor in real life is rated for 44 magnums, so I think something really could be done. Not like a 10% extra armor would make a huge difference, even at 30 armor, its only 3 extra armor points, and 25 would still make them effective against all but really tough armor.

The corpse is WAD, its basically an analog for paying off officials to make the person show as ""missing"" while the weight is an analog for council investigators at your base nagging and slowing down your operations, till you pay up.

Hey solair, any chance we could get a pistol and sniper variety of the magma industries cannon?

maybe a pistol which drains energy to fires because its so damn hard on the wrist, or inflicts a little morale damage (my damn wrist is bruised after 1 shot jeez!) but fires light cannon rounds, with a high dependence on strength for any semblance of accuracy?

The idea of an uber heavy, crazy badass "pistol" to replace the workhorse magnum would be pretty sweet, even if it was unwieldy as fuck. And with only 4 shots, it would be a pretty niche weapon... Though honestly it would give an (imo) needed item to late game xcom agents : a backup weapon which is potent, and multi purpose. And I imagine it would be very good for "hunts".

Also, I think it would be neat for missions in cults which interact with civilians : maybe an underground fight ring for lotus (to acquire gambling funds, and get recruits, and gain fame from martial arts prowess), dagon holding a cult complex to convert wayward souls, red dawn moving stuff on a military base / forcing a bio lab to work on storm, and exalt doing the same with a tech company to produce psiclone. I know the cults are technically done, but this would be good to 1, diversify the lore for the cults, and 2, make missions which have a bit more difficult arrangements...don't want to accidentally shoot a scientist or bigwig whos caught up working with a cult, after all. I think it might be a good idea to mix them up half and half between the small hideouts which seem rather generic, and would certainly make things interesting... And could allow for research opportunities
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: niculinux on October 14, 2017, 04:25:47 pm
I've mentioned this with the colt, recommended giving colt a +10/25 armor but solair wouldn't have it. I think its a little too powerful too early, i agree.

I too agree on that. According to ufopedia has 30 damage, I'd personally for a range between 25-28. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 14, 2017, 04:41:31 pm
Okay, let me be honest about it: this gun system has already outgrown my understanding and ambitions. I delegate most of these things to Dioxine, so I guess it's up to him.
It doesn't mean I don't care about this, but I'm more of a creative director than the creator in regards to gun stats. So we'll see what he says.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Dioxine on October 14, 2017, 05:23:24 pm
I wouldn't take Magum over even an MP-5, personally... It's neither long range enough to compete with MP-5 and rifles, and not damaging enough to compete with shotguns or sniper rifles... And not accurate enough to compete with either... it illustrates that raw power isn't the only factor that counts... It is a good jack-of-all-trades weapon, no doubt, there are valid playstyles it lends to very well, but it's hardly overpowering.

More generally speaking, I don't see a reason for nerfing pistols (since worse armor pen for Colt immediately makes beretta/glock/snubnose a better choice, then you need to nerf their armor pen too, etc...). There is little reason (IMO) to use them at all once full-sized weapons become available. Perhaps the only exception is Glock, which allows to put so much lead in the air (with decent accuracy) that it keeps its usefulness as a backup weapon to wear down unarmored, healthy targets (zombos once close range, blobs, dogs...). Strangely nobody complains about Glocks...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 14, 2017, 08:49:55 pm
the bit about berretas being better is hyper dependent on target in question actually. As far as I know the armor thing, it would more taper off colt / magnum to be more COMPARABLE to other pistols than rifle rounds, when compared to an armored target

Lets take a +25% armor, with a 40 armor target (just for example).

The armor jump would be 10 points

A berreta at 23 damage, with a max roll damage of 46. Enough to penetrate the armor or 40 obviously, but making it a majority bullet resistant.

A colt at 30 damage would have a max roll damage of 60, but with the 25% extra armor, any rolls under 50 are now blocked. Its not much, but it makes options like the AK47 more potent, and makies taking on armored goons with a colt much less viable.

Obviously both pistols indeed work, but colt is still better per shot, it just isnt as exponentially better vs armor.

As for the glock, I don't mind because it still a relatively low damage, but high damage like 30 or 38 ends up making the armor in many enemies, or even kevlar early on slightly pointless

Also, I'm not for lowering the damage of the colt 45, just amplifying how it effects armor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2017, 12:16:14 am
Division of labour aside, I will only consider adding AP penalty to pistols if the Stats for Nerds feature becomes reality. Without it, this is just too expensive to maintenance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 15, 2017, 02:40:02 am
Honestly I'm not for pistols in general getting it : I guess you could use the nitro express as a good example : the whole idea with that gun is it EXCELS at killing squishy targets very easily, while a high quality armor vest or armor plating will make it bounce off

this honestly isn't necessary for glocks or others because they are already well mitigated by armor CURRENTLY : a glock can sometimes be resisted by kevlar, and is almost always resisted by the heavier combat armor.

When using a colt however, the only differences are TU usage, weight, accuracy, and magazine size : a colt still use just as effective against an armored target point blank as a blackops rifle bullet is. Magnums go slightly further though, being most effective outuside shotgun slugs until larger sniper rifles are had, and with no real downside outside of a range trumped by a rifle.

The whole issue is specifically LARGE and COMMON pistols, which are comparable to rifle rounds in damage, but the large, fat, rounded, non AP bullet is still just as, or more effective (in the case of the magnum) at going through armor than your bread and butter blackops rifle : which seems very odd

honestly I find this particularly strange since you gave m16s an armor piercing effect, yet don't want to give a meager +25% armor  to the 2 pistols in question, even though both would still remain a risk in the areas used.

honestly its not a huge issue, but it is a big nagging thing in the back of my mind why a 45 pierces armor just as good as a 7.62.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: tkzv on October 15, 2017, 02:59:35 am
Zombie Trooper Autopsy text mentions the parasite, but it's possible to reach this point before discovering the parasite, since it is gained in a random mission.

Same for Tomb Guardian description.

UPDATE: Finished all available zombie missions up to vampire castle in 1998. First got zombie parasite and brainwashed farmer in July 1999.

I managed to finish Red Dawn arc without ever getting durathread. Is it unavailable anywhere else?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: mumble on October 15, 2017, 06:09:13 am
maybe injectors, or the odd fat zombie should drop a parasite...honestly they are cheap enough, I wonder if they should just be present with any zombie mission. It would better explain the spread to be honest.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2017, 12:37:30 pm
Honestly I'm not for pistols in general getting it : I guess you could use the nitro express as a good example : the whole idea with that gun is it EXCELS at killing squishy targets very easily, while a high quality armor vest or armor plating will make it bounce off(...)

All points taken. This won't be off the table, but there are more pressing matters to attend to first.

Zombie Trooper Autopsy text mentions the parasite, but it's possible to reach this point before discovering the parasite, since it is gained in a random mission.

Same for Tomb Guardian description.

There were similar issues with vanilla. I personally think it's an acceptable simplification. Otherwise all Zombie autopsies would require knowing the parasite first, and that would be weird.

I managed to finish Red Dawn arc without ever getting durathread. Is it unavailable anywhere else?

but half the Red Dawn guys drop durathread...

maybe injectors, or the odd fat zombie should drop a parasite...honestly they are cheap enough, I wonder if they should just be present with any zombie mission. It would better explain the spread to be honest.

I can't remember if research can give you an item. This could be a solution. Still, it's not very elegant.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: tkzv on October 15, 2017, 01:24:27 pm
but half the Red Dawn guys drop durathread...
Yes, it's weird. It never appears in the loot. I unlocked "finish the RD" research around January 1998 and have been avoiding it 6 game months. Should I post a savegame?

P.S. You said "drop". Does it mean it only appears on the dead bodies?

P.P.S. Yes, it does. I've been skipping missions in debug mode, trying to take as many live prisoners as possible. Just wanted to see the changes in the new version, but didn't have time for proper playthrough. When I tried to skip a mission by killing everybody, I got 3 "corpses recovered" and 3 pieces of durathread.

How does this mechanic work? What other enemies yield useful stuff that way?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2017, 05:06:51 pm
How does this mechanic work? What other enemies yield useful stuff that way?

It definitely isn't common. I don't think there's another item like that at the moment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: tkzv on October 15, 2017, 05:48:29 pm
It definitely isn't common. I don't think there's another item like that at the moment.
I recall having trouble getting "Alien Electronics" in 0.6.7. Was it dropped from Cyberweb bodies? For some reason I can't remember I preferred dart guns, tazer pistols and stun rods.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2017, 09:34:52 pm
I recall having trouble getting "Alien Electronics" in 0.6.7. Was it dropped from Cyberweb bodies? For some reason I can't remember I preferred dart guns, tazer pistols and stun rods.

No, Alien Electronics can only be extracted from alien robots. Cyberweb uses Earth tech, only on steroids.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Taberone on October 16, 2017, 08:09:18 am
Any way to override the "Mission complete - Returning to Base" behavior after I complete a mission? Having to return to base after every mission before I can respond to another one is a bit weird, and by the time my agents finally return to base the missions will usually have despawned. Being able to respond to (and try to complete) multiple missions in one go (at the cost of not being able to resupply since you're not returning to base and managing craft inventory) would be nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: ohartenstein23 on October 16, 2017, 02:51:02 pm
Any way to override the "Mission complete - Returning to Base" behavior after I complete a mission? Having to return to base after every mission before I can respond to another one is a bit weird, and by the time my agents finally return to base the missions will usually have despawned. Being able to respond to (and try to complete) multiple missions in one go (at the cost of not being able to resupply since you're not returning to base and managing craft inventory) would be nice.

Nope, the engine is written this way, likely in part to avoid dealing with wounded units in missions.  You can always get more hangars/transports and agents to do more missions in a shorter time. The three vans the starting base can easily support is plenty for the early game.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: NazarTyagun on October 21, 2017, 02:29:58 am
Is it still possible to increase the stats? did not see strength higher than 70 or accuracy 122
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Lohland on October 21, 2017, 08:48:54 am
Is it still possible to increase the stats?
Yes, see the file: soldiers_XCOMFILES.rul
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: jinxed on October 22, 2017, 11:38:37 pm
Damn, this mod is really addictive ;D
Made it into Sep '99 now. I got a bit scared during the first two months of the invasion, as the skies were swarming with UFOs of all sizes, and promptly lost the US as a funding nation. But alien activity slowed down considerably after that. The usual monthly Terror Mission aside, I've been mostly busy with dealing with the Syndicate, and chasing the Zombie Plot.
A couple of observations:

- The AI seems to need a bit of tweaking, especially the Syndicate missions tend to suffer from an overemphasis on self-preservation which often leads to them running around like headless chicken searching for cover instead of actually attacking. It was most obvious during the Base Attacks, where I had them trapped at the classic elevator chokepoint. The pattern was always the same: Syndicate Goon steps through the elevator door, sees half a dozen guns pointed at him, tries to run away. It made every of their Base Attacks a turkey shoot, even though it was a base with Rookie Agents and suboptimal equipment.

- I'm impressed with how effective the "conventional" weapons still are. All the Smart Gun types, the Miniguns and the BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifles were up to any given task so far. Oh, and the Thrasher with AA BS is just absurd ;D I have already researched and built a whole array of Gauss weaponry now sitting on the shleves bacause I just don't feel the need for them yet. Well, maybe when the T'leth arc continues.

- If you want to shoot down a UFO, don't equip your craft with an Avalanche launcher, because 1 hit with these things is usually enough to outright destroy it.

One thing I'm wondering is, how do you get access to AA ammo for the UAC weapons? The UFOPAEDIA has them listed in the weapon descriptions, but I can't manufacture them so far.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2017, 01:04:17 am
Thanks for the thoughts!

The AI is not something I can do anything about. Maybe they need a bit more Bravery?

UAC AA ammo is unfinished, will be available in the next update.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.2 alpha: Snipers in The Night
Post by: jinxed on October 25, 2017, 07:45:02 pm
Sooo, I played a bit further along. Made it into October, and got my first base attack conducted by actual aliens...and faced effin Etherals :o
Thankfully they attacked my NA base with the convienient chokepoint set up, and the same issue I had with the Syndicate applied here, too.
I had half a dozen tanks at my disposal, and since I built the large storage facility just beneath the elevator, they had a short drive, haha.
So long story short, I faced 18 Ethereals and 7 Sectopods, and slaughtered them left and right.
I've indicated it before, but during that mission, and a Terror mission with Cyberdiscs, one thing became really clear:
Miniguns are absurdly effective, a little too effective I'd say.
The dynamic of the base attack had it, that the Sectopods didn't show till every Ethereal was gunned down. After that I just parked a Minigun HWP in front of the elevator door, and waited for them to show up. Every turn I opened the door, had a "customer" and killed it with one salvo from point blank range. That went on for 7 turns and was quite hilarious, but also a little too easy.
I mean, it was Sectopods, it doesn't get any harder than that, right?

The Terror mission wasn't any more difficult. I had 2 guys with Black Ops Minigun, and they murdered just everything.
With 30% TU costs you can dish out up to 480 damage with an accuracy of 48%, and the accurate range is almost competing with Sniper Rifles, too. And I can do that 3 times a turn with a single soldier if I stay put.
That's just insane. I'm usually not a guy calling for nerfs, I like awesome guns just as much as anyone, but this is definitely game breaking territory in my book.
I think they shouldn't be that cheap to fire, and also the accuracy of these things is a bit over the top.
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 25, 2017, 07:52:35 pm
Congratulations on the base defence. :)

Now, regarding the miniguns. I understand your point and I am taking it seriously. But all I have ever heard about miniguns in general was that they were relatively useless. I don't think any other weapon group has been modified as many times as miniguns, since I kept looking for a way to make them useful. It could be that I took it too far, but on the other hand many different weapons were reported as "OP" in the mod, so it could be down to a personal preference/playstyle, at least partially.

Therefore I would be very interested in hearing more opinions on miniguns. Should they be nerfed?

EDIT: Version 0.7.3 has been released.
- Added a smaller money prize to missions.
- New weapons: Smart Shotgun, M.A.G.M.A. Pulse Pistol.
- Tactical Sniper Rifle and Multilauncher reskinned to match the X-Com theme.
- New dossier: Krazy Hassan (by Dioxine).
- New Vampire Castle map block (by Dioxine).
- New Caves blocks (by Dioxine).
- New cave treasure.
- Auto-Cannon now has 5 bullets auto shot.
- Stims are stronger.
- Osiron Goons have more armor.
- Fixed a problem with mind-controlled X-Com agents.
- Fixed visibility range on some armours.
- Fixed some maps.
- Minor additions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: mumble on October 26, 2017, 08:18:26 am
I think miniguns, and many other guns would do well to have a heavy reliance on strength for accuracy. In fact, i honestly would love dropping the tus of the heavy machine gun by 10 or 15 and making a semi exponential increase in accuracy with higher strength, but allowing use of it by weaker troops, albeit very poorly. (currently its not possible to even fire unless you have pretty high strength and no items / armor)

I think this would be a great way to capitalize on meat head troops, having gun accuracy more attributed to strength than JUST accuracy. In fact i think magma weapons would also do well with this.

And honestly this is very realistic especially for automatics of large caliburs. Weaker men struggle to handle ak47s on automatic, i imaging a minigun would be far worse, and this would allow a minigun or similar guns to have better performance with accurate firing hulks than accurate firing featherweights, even if they are under the weight limit. And while this especially applies to automatics, single fire guns are still an issue... Holding A heavy gun steady for a good shot isn't as easy as holding a lighter rifle steady, and this would allow for higher cannon accuracy for particularly gifted troops.

Say, just an idea, but could selling AA ammo to magma result in AA ammo eventually on the free market of cultists? This would be a fun twist if possible, seeing nasty results of breaching the xcom code of secrecy. Also, since AA are lighter than normal steel, any possibility we could get lighter versions of some guns using them? I'd love an AA thrasher shotgun or other items.

Also, i still think the beach / ski resorts are bs missions, they might be possible packing a lot of crossbows, but they feel badly balanced.. I know it is optional but still
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 26, 2017, 11:11:23 am
I have actually entertained the idea of strength bonus to accuracy, but ultimately it doesn't make sense in such a game. It would be okay in a more mundane scenario with only non-augmented humans, but consider this: if a weak soldier has hopeless accuracy with a minigun and a strong soldier has okay accuracy, then a Muton will be a fucking virtuoso of automatic fire from his strength alone - in fact more accurate than with a precise rifle. This is obviously absurd and a sign of bad design/going against the game engine. So, no.

The alloy ammo proliferation is already in for a long time.

Beach missions etc. are like minigames in Saints Row: different people like different missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: mumble on October 26, 2017, 03:20:01 pm
Well, can you make the effect of strength plateu at a point like a curved graph line? I mainly suggest that, so firing is the ultimate determining factor, but lower strength is a penalization. What about every point of strength under 60 (flexible obviously) deducts aim, or something? Just a way to penalize people who struggle to hold it steady / handle the mule like kick of large automatics, while super gym rats won't be magically better past the "ok, this is effectively as light as an ak with my strength", level of power?

It would also be a good addition to xcom in general having soft "floors" for skills of several types..

I'm not entirely sure if this kind of math would be doable, but if it is i imagine it would be a good way to skill floor (in a sense) many guns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: ohartenstein23 on October 26, 2017, 04:22:23 pm
There's no way right now to make an accuracy 'plateau,' except by very carefully designing a polynomial function based on stats, which is difficult to communicate to the player.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 26, 2017, 07:08:51 pm
Exactly, I am working with what we can have, not some theoretical mechanics.
Having said that, having the option to add some sort of limited bonus from Strength would be nice... But would probably require a whole new design (something like a recoil stat on a weapon?). I don't think it's worth the effort, practically speaking.

I know players have dreams. I have dreams too, otherwise this mod wouldn't exist. But my dreams are by necessity way more grounded in reality. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: tkzv on October 28, 2017, 01:33:30 pm
I just though to ask. EXALT investigation opens Hybrid Network. Red Dawn opens Cyberweb. Church of Dagon opens Aquatoids. Does Black Lotus open anything?



An unrelated question: which missions give penalties for skipping them and which don't?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 28, 2017, 05:45:50 pm
I just though to ask. EXALT investigation opens Hybrid Network. Red Dawn opens Cyberweb. Church of Dagon opens Aquatoids. Does Black Lotus open anything?

Not yet, but it will. Though I'm not sure if it will be a whole faction.

An unrelated question: which missions give penalties for skipping them and which don't?

This mod has waaaaay too many missions to list them. But most of the time easy missions yield bigger penalties.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: tkzv on October 28, 2017, 09:01:35 pm
Glad to hear Black Lotus doesn't end there.

This mod has waaaaay too many missions to list them. But most of the time easy missions yield bigger penalties.
Is there an easy way to find it in *.rul files? Is it "despawnPenalty" in alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul ?

Update: Yes, it is. 176 missions out of 251 give penalties. Not sure how many of those are not accessible. The ones without penalty seem to primarily be UFO missions that didn't change from the original UFOEU and base assaults and defence:
STR_SMALL_SCOUT
STR_SMALL_SCOUT_SECTOID
STR_SMALL_SCOUT_FLOATER
STR_SMALL_SCOUT_MUTON
...
STR_ENVOY_SHIP
STR_ALIEN_BASE_ASSAULT
STR_BASE_DEFENSE
STR_MARS_CYDONIA_LANDING
STR_MARS_THE_FINAL_ASSAULT
STR_MIB_COVERUP_0
STR_MIB_COVERUP_1
STR_MIB_COVERUP_2
STR_MIB_TERROR_MISSION
STR_MIB_BASE_LANDING
STR_MANSION
STR_MANSION_MIB
STR_KEEP
STR_DRAGONFLY_DARK
STR_SCARAB
STR_BASE_DEFENSE_SYNDICATE
STR_CHTONITE_MINIBASE_ASSAULT

The cheapest (10) are:
STR_HIDDEN_CAVES_FEW
STR_HIDDEN_CAVES_SEVERAL
STR_HYBRID_PURGE
STR_HYBRID_STORAGE
STR_SPIDER_SIBERIA
STR_SYNDICATE_PHASE_1
STR_PINK_CAVES

The most expensive are:
1000:
most terror missions
STR_JARHEAD_FACTORY
STR_MANSION_DEFENSE_SYNDICATE
STR_OLD_ARCHIVES_DEFENSE_SYNDICATE
2000:
STR_SILO_ATTACK
STR_DOWNTOWN_ATTACK
STR_ALIEN_PURGE

Jarhead Terror is 700, Deep Ones Rituals is 500, Soul Harvest is only 300, and Blood/Black Moon are 150. Surf Time and Ski Resort are 50. Monster hunts are 150 alone, 300 with militia or police, 600 with army. Cults are 200 for apprehension, 150 for investigation, 100 for most other missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: Dr.Crowley on November 06, 2017, 01:26:11 pm
I am slowly resuming my new playthrough. Finally I could take a look on a new mission type - Surf Time. I found its description a bit confusing: it is implied that only concealable weapons and literally no armor are allowed but when I started this mission all weapons I equipped (I picked only those with ">Concealable" mark) minus flashlights were gone (returned to base). BUT when I went to battlescape with an uneasy feeling that my team is screwed and carefully hid my seemingly doomed agents inside of the house where they were deployed, I quickly realized that Osirion goons are completely ignoring them!
As they say, "and there was much rejoicing".
I could not help but laugh and giggle like crazy as 8 armed Osirion goons ended up clubbered and stunned WITH FLASHLIGHTS by 4 almost nude agents ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: tkzv on November 06, 2017, 06:11:04 pm
I am slowly resuming my new playthrough. Finally I could take a look on a new mission type - Surf Time. I found its description a bit confusing: it is implied that only consealable weapons and literally no armor are allowed but when I started this mission all weapons I equipped (I picked only those with ">Consealable" mark) minus flashlights were gone (returned to base). BUT when I went to battlescape with an uneasy feeling that my team is screwed and carefully hid my seemingly doomed agents inside of the house where they were deployed, I quickly realized that Osirion goons are completely ignoring them!
As they say, "and there was much rejoicing".
I could not help but laugh and giggle like crazy as 8 armed Osirion goons ended up clubbered and stunned WITH FLASHLIGHTS by 4 almost nude agents ;D
I loved it when I found surfboards can work as clubs. Wooden clubs worked better for me, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.3 alpha: Dirty Money
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 06, 2017, 06:44:09 pm
I am slowly resuming my new playthrough. Finally I could take a look on a new mission type - Surf Time. I found its description a bit confusing: it is implied that only consealable weapons and literally no armor are allowed but when I started this mission all weapons I equipped (I picked only those with ">Consealable" mark) minus flashlights were gone (returned to base). BUT when I went to battlescape with an uneasy feeling that my team is screwed and carefully hid my seemingly doomed agents inside of the house where they were deployed, I quickly realized that Osirion goons are completely ignoring them!
As they say, "and there was much rejoicing".
I could not help but laugh and giggle like crazy as 8 armed Osirion goons ended up clubbered and stunned WITH FLASHLIGHTS by 4 almost nude agents ;D

Well, of course Osiron people have their equipment with them! It's effectively their beach. :)

I need to sit down and browse all mission descriptions to make sure they are clear enough...

I loved it when I found surfboards can work as clubs. Wooden clubs worked better for me, though.

Yeah, the boards are there mostly as a joke. :) Can be useful though.

EDIT:

Version 0.7.4 has been released.

- New weapons: Shogg Cudgel, Shogg Hammer, Shogg Staff, Dragon Dagger, Alloy Throwing Knives.
- New factions: Antmen, Scorpoids.
- New units: Antman Worker, Antman Warrior, Antman Queen, Scorpoid Hunter, Spider King.
- New mission: Shogg Village.
- Secret Caves now can be disabled with the right research.
- League Apprehension now gives secret files.
- Slightly buffed dog armors and added Ufopaedia entries for them.
- Reaper and Bloodhound attacks took a level in badass.
- Fixed armours with shields (allowed where they shouldn't be).
- Fixed some typos (thanks tkzv).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.4 alpha: Shoggoth on The Roof
Post by: Dr.Crowley on November 07, 2017, 09:29:23 pm
Version 0.7.4 has been released.

Yay, it is update time!
- New factions: Antmen, Scorpoids.
- New units: Antman Worker, Antman Warrior, Antman Queen, Scorpoid Hunter, Spider King.
Sooooooo... The Underdark ark at last? :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.4 alpha: Shoggoth on The Roof
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 07, 2017, 10:34:23 pm
Sooooooo... The Underdark ark at last? :D

Damn yes, at least the first real part of it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.4 alpha: Shoggoth on The Roof
Post by: mumble on November 07, 2017, 10:53:02 pm
Sounds great, but i need to work to pass a few archs of the game to catch up. Maybe now i can get past the magma industry zombies.

Are throwing knives game for undercover missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.4 alpha: Shoggoth on The Roof
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2017, 06:46:59 pm
Sounds great, but i need to work to pass a few archs of the game to catch up. Maybe now i can get past the magma industry zombies.

Well, you can upgrade your save from an earlier version, no problem.

Are throwing knives game for undercover missions?

Just go and check the Inventory screen. ;)

EDIT: Version 0.7.5 is out.
- New mission: Scorpoid Village Takeover.
- New unit: Scorpoid Rebel.
- Resized Shogg Village (now is smaller).
- Dog armours now give extra carrying capacity.
- Added one staff input.
- Fixed Shogg missions not being generated.
- Fixed underwater suit shenanigans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.4 alpha: Shoggoth on The Roof
Post by: Dr.Crowley on November 10, 2017, 09:25:25 pm
Version 0.7.5 is out.
What, new version already? Damn. Update time... again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2017, 10:46:32 am
Okay, the Chtonite Minibase mission was borked. Please download 0.7.5b for the fix.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: mrbiasha on November 11, 2017, 02:01:44 pm
Most delicious updates! The mod is growing nicer and bigger!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: niculinux on November 13, 2017, 04:12:41 pm
Most delicious updates! The mod is growing nicer and bigger!

Abslutely agree! Hey, in the 0.7.5b by april 1997 reached promotion I but still can't get hands on sten:'( :'( may be possibe to make it early avaiable? Thanks again
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2017, 08:22:52 pm
Abslutely agree! Hey, in the 0.7.5b by april 1997 reached promotion I but still can't get hands on sten:'( :'( may be possibe to make it early avaiable? Thanks again

I'd be hard-pressed to find a weapon which is easier to obtain than Sten. Well, except the Makarov.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: niculinux on November 15, 2017, 11:26:58 am
I'd be hard-pressed to find a weapon which is easier to obtain than Sten. Well, except the Makarov.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 15, 2017, 09:15:55 pm
1) The hummer (introduced in 0.7.1) has some kind of machinegun on the roof, it suggest may be equipped with some sort of "craft weapon"? If no, how about to remove it in the next update ?  :-\ :o :)

Oh silly me, what would I do without your glorious leadership.
(that was sarcasm)

2) the "jumpsuit" may be renamed in "combat suit"?

Yes, as opposed to all other suits, which are clearly meant for gardening.

3) ak 47 clips are used both by ak 47 and aks, while the 5.56 mm NATO by m16 and FN FAL; how to rename the ak clips in "5.45 mm WP" (WP= Warsaw Pact, of course) so it may be also used with eventual futher weapons usin that caliber?  :D

If it comes to that, I'll consider it. Otherwise it's just needlessly confusing - an AK bullet is an AK bullet.
(BTW, it's also used by the Groza.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: niculinux on November 18, 2017, 10:32:38 pm
Another minor "hint": basic operations research topic should be renamed "covert operations" and possibly lead to some new stuff items (sportsgear and on conceleable weapons and /or items?) and then other two topics: "covert operations: sportsmen" and "covert operations: surfers". As of 0.7.5b completin the basic operation topic leads only to the sportsmen one, but the reports screen  does not show its ufopedia entry (the one with the snow) instead only a generic one like this attached. Then the surfers operation is avaiable for research. If accepted, the attachred creen should read "covert operations", and  the description text changed in a more fitting way to the results?

It may be only a matter of taste, but whateva :D in the meantime i recovered (in 0.7.5b) a wad of cash and a psiclone, but in the research menu are not displayed; i thought at least  the psiclone had some research value, don't think so for the wad of cash. just for cosidereation. (after some gaming) oh, accordin to the game player must firs research an EXALT infiltrator whose report mention psiclone and then it is avaiable to research, but would not nice to not have that prequisite? :)

Edit: probably not possible, but vehicles in the hangar (while in base view) may be a little more bigger? ☺

Edit 2: for some new stuff (vehiclrs/equpment/items) please let's not forget alinare's endless war (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.msg84183.html#msg84183), it's really cool  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: HT on November 19, 2017, 10:28:17 pm
Greetings, how is it going?

It's been a while since I played this game or Piratez!, and I was wondering whether to restart this one or the other. So, how has X-Files changed since the last time I played it, two or three versions ago? I noticed there's easier access to explosives, especially smoke bombs, as well as a hummer to replace the mediocre vans.

Has its difficulty been adjusted so that shootouts between gangs are actually that? What about higher difficulties spawning way too many human enemies during cult-related missions?

Lastly, any tips about getting money? Since several things changed with the newest version, I suppose.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: niculinux on November 20, 2017, 12:25:29 am
Greetings, how is it going?

It's been a while since I played this game or Piratez!, and I was wondering whether to restart this one or the other. So, how has X-Files changed since the last time I played it, two or three versions ago? I noticed there's easier access to explosives, especially smoke bombs, as well as a hummer to replace the mediocre vans.

Has its difficulty been adjusted so that shootouts between gangs are actually that? What about higher difficulties spawning way too many human enemies during cult-related missions?

Lastly, any tips about getting money? Since several things changed with the newest version, I suppose.

Hello! Hey in 0.7.5b got into march 1998 and still haven't get my hands on explsosives
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: tkzv on November 20, 2017, 12:51:29 am
So, how has X-Files changed since the last time I played it, two or three versions ago? I noticed there's easier access to explosives, especially smoke bombs, as well as a hummer to replace the mediocre vans.
"2 or 3" major or minor versions? Hummer appeared in 0.7.1, which was more than 3 releases ago. It's faster than the van, but, unfortunately, can't be used in undercover missions.

Since 0.7.0 there was mostly polishing, several new items and crafts that don't change the big picture. Agricultural flamer deserves mention as the earliest available incendiary weapon, but I find flare pistol more convenient and usually get them at the same time.

The biggest change is the new Underdark missions unlocked by random finds in caves. Judging by strings, a lot of new content is going to appear in the upcoming versions :) But so far there's only 3 new missions.

Has its difficulty been adjusted so that shootouts between gangs are actually that?
When I stepped aside — yes, they were fighting each other. When I interfered and used a lot of reloading, my allies didn't do anything for lack of targets. I don't feel that anything changed.

Lastly, any tips about getting money? Since several things changed with the newest version, I suppose.
Chemogun and chempistol work as before. I don't remember how profitable HWP ammo used to be, but most of it is still more profitable than chemoguns. Except cannon shells.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2017, 09:02:59 pm
Version 0.7.6 has been released.
(Or will be, when the bloody upload is complete.)

- New weapon: M3 Greasegun.
- New paperdoll: Osiron Goon.
- Rebalanced snap accuracy on all weapons.
- 2x2 units are no longer bleeding immune.
- Staff Inputs usually give 10 points.
- Chupacabra attack is now slightly weaker.
- Fixed Grav Module manufacturing.
- Fixed Concerned Citizen recovery.
- Minor fixes to maps.


As for the bigger picture, I think the two most important recent changes were updated civilian AI mod (by Meridian) and the introduction of sniper/spotter mechanics (by Ohartenstein). The first one makes armed civilians behave the same way as enemies (and the enemies shoot them like they would X-Com) and the latter allows some enemies to shoot from behind line of sight and track your units better. These two make a significant change to the gameplay.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.5 alpha: Lizard Trap
Post by: Dr.Crowley on November 21, 2017, 09:49:15 pm
Version 0.7.6 has been released.
(Or will be, when the bloody upload is complete.)
Geez, I am soooooo sloooooow :D

- Fixed Concerned Citizen recovery.
I hope they can be interrogated now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: mumble on November 21, 2017, 09:54:06 pm
Also the cqc update, wasn't that around v5?

Cqc involves a chance to react to point black gunfire with trying to wrestle the gun away. It involves a check between the shooter and defender, with a successful roll forcing the shooter to shoot left, right, or straight up instead of the intended target, so long as the defender is within 1 tile of the shooter

Pretty good for mixing up close quarters combat significantly, it can either completely screw you over (force you to shoot your allies) or a life saver (avoiding point blank shotgun fire)

It is however tied to melee /  strength / reaction skill, and requires being right next to the shooter, so you can completely avoid this if you simply always fire from no less than 2 tiles away.

Contrary, rushing a gunner with a high melee pawn can be useful in negating a particularly strong enemy, as an enemy with a plasma rifle isn't as dangerous if they miss

There are variables based on strength, facing (the more the person faces the other, the better their role... From behind completely is usually always successful)

... Sorry if you already knew about this, but 2 or 3 versions back i think includes this.

I hope concerned citizens are made a little more scary, last i tried i was incredibly wreck less, and only got one guy knocked out with a bat.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: niculinux on November 23, 2017, 09:58:20 am
In 0.7.6 all snap shot accuracy for weapons were modified; don't know if something similar will be done for power of some weapons in future versions, as the crossbow (28) being more powerful than mp5 (25) and the magnum .44 right know is an elephant killer (38). Im not sure, but my 2 cent's as always  :)

Edit: for futher weapons addiction may i suggest so take some resources from the very excellent kappa weapons (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3918.msg50636.html#msg50636)? (screenshots in the thread) :) In the menatime, hope to see in 0.7.7 the MP 40 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_40) as a new "outdated weapon"; Dioxine in x-piratezmade and included it for that mod. As for openxcom files I've checked 0.7.6 and actually it is in the mod (bigob_MP) but has the shape of the MP5  ;) Cheers!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Taberone on November 24, 2017, 01:18:57 am
Are save files compatible with each other if I upgrade to a new version of the mod? The answer is probably yes, but it doesn't hurt to get confirmation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: tkzv on November 24, 2017, 11:28:42 am
Are save files compatible with each other if I upgrade to a new version of the mod? The answer is probably yes, but it doesn't hurt to get confirmation.

Here's the explanation: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4133.0.html You need to manually add new mission types. See the changelogs: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5427.0.html and check if any version in between mentions "new mission".

Every time I get a new version, I start a new game with auto-generated base and immediately save it. Then I use some program like diff to compare it with a similar save from the previous version. If there's something new in "alienStrategy -> possibleMissions", I copy it.

I think there were no changes between 0.7.5 and 0.7.6, but both 0.7.4 and 0.7.5 introduced important changes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: niculinux on November 25, 2017, 05:58:15 pm
I've seen at least in early game there are no missions requiring concealed items being spawned, only these with sporting gear. The former will be more common in early game from next versions or are supposed to happen at mid/late game? I suppose the lattter hypothesys   :D

Edit: the feature to hit enemies with buns/gunbutts may be sweet, like in x-piratez. :)

Edit 2: I really like the new battlescape tunes! Possibly, i'd prefer a new one for the geoscape, the curent is too much vanilla, but whatever!!  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 25, 2017, 09:52:01 pm

Here's the explanation: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4133.0.html You need to manually add new mission types. See the changelogs: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5427.0.html and check if any version in between mentions "new mission".

Every time I get a new version, I start a new game with auto-generated base and immediately save it. Then I use some program like diff to compare it with a similar save from the previous version. If there's something new in "alienStrategy -> possibleMissions", I copy it.

What you are saying is true for missions run from table, but a huge majority of XCF missions do not use tables. Therefore, missions are reset every month.

Most of the time saves are perfectly transferable, unless I specifically say otherwise.

I've seen at least in early game there are no missions requiring concealed items being spawned, only these with sporting gear. The former will be more common in early game from next versions or are supposed to happen at mid/late game? I suppose the lattter hypothesys   :D

I don't understand. There are many missions with concealable items only. Can you rephrase?

Edit: the feature to hit enemies with buns/gunbutts may be sweet, like in x-piratez. :)

Meh. To a degree, yes. But humans just don't have this kind of oomph behind them, and most of their weapons are badly designed for melee. There are exceptions, though.

Edit 2: I really like the new battlescape tunes! Possibly, i'd prefer a new one for the geoscape, the curent is too much vanilla, but whatever!!  ;D

It is completely vanilla. :) But maybe I'll expand the base at some point.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: tkzv on November 25, 2017, 10:35:26 pm
What you are saying is true for missions run from table, but a huge majority of XCF missions do not use tables. Therefore, missions are reset every month.
I noticed that new mission regions were missing when I waited 2 years for an underground mission in 0.7.4 with a game started in 0.7.1 or 0.7.2. This was how I got over 2 billion dollars, by the way :)

Considering, that those missions were broken, maybe their absence in the file wasn't the cause.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2017, 02:01:57 am
Considering, that those missions were broken, maybe their absence in the file wasn't the cause.

You may be right, who knows. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: jepeman on November 26, 2017, 01:55:30 pm
Been playing this amazing mod for a while, thanks for all the great work!

Im getting close to the year 1999 and wondering, does the XCom files cults, zombies, monsters, syndicates, mad scientists, etc. content end then and the game switch to more traditional XCom (with final modpack kinda)? Or does the XCom files content continue going on along with UFOs starting to show up more (invasion)?

Worried that I've been too slow tackling the arcs.

My current situation, some spoilers.
I have killed the 4 cults, ended secret cave missions from spawning (did the research saying goverments/others handling them now) and maybe finished the zombie arc (though haven't seen vampires outside of a couple army vs undead battles, so probably still more to go).

Currently fighting Syndicate, Osiron, Hybrids, Cyberweb, random monsters.
Never seen any of the Shogg content (aside from lantern research) or Cult of the Apocalypse. Though you're listing their completion percentage so low, maybe they're just mentioned here and there in research?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: tkzv on November 26, 2017, 10:02:25 pm
Im getting close to the year 1999 and wondering, does the XCom files cults, zombies, monsters, syndicates, mad scientists, etc. content end then and the game switch to more traditional XCom (with final modpack kinda)? Or does the XCom files content continue going on along with UFOs starting to show up more (invasion)?
Yes, you get the Martian aliens in addition to the rest. Enjoy :) Almost forgot: unlike the rest, they can infiltrate Earth governments and make the countries stop backing you. Supposedly, Russia is still immune to infiltration.

Worried that I've been too slow tackling the arcs.
If you start 1999 with all the inventions available at the start of vanilla X-COM — Interceptor, Skyranger, Alien Containment, Workshop, Laboratory, Black Ops weapons, HWPs — you are doing fine. Not sure about Stun Rod, but early on it can be replaced by tazers and electric clubs.

If you also have improved Interceptor and Skyranger, improved cannon, dart guns and armour better than Personal Armor, you are doing good. Not sure, if you can get flying suits and weapons with unlimited ammo that early.

ended secret cave missions from spawning (did the research saying goverments/others handling them now)
...
Currently fighting ... random monsters.
Maybe it's the other way around?

and maybe finished the zombie arc (though haven't seen vampires outside of a couple army vs undead battles, so probably still more to go).
Yes, there is more to go, even if it's unfinished :)

Never seen any of the Shogg content (aside from lantern research) or Cult of the Apocalypse. Though you're listing their completion percentage so low, maybe they're just mentioned here and there in research?
Lantern research should unlock deep cave (Shogg) missions. Not sure if they can appear before the start of invasion.

Cult of the Apocalypse includes "Prison Break" and "Town Cleanup" missions which appeared fairly early for me.

In addition, there are various "Men in Black" missions, which appeared for me around 2002, and the TftD-inspired arc unlocked by researching something from Cult of Dagon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Taberone on November 30, 2017, 02:55:48 am
I'm doing the Black Lotus Cult Base mission and I've killed everyone (I think) with the exception of their leader, who I've stunned. The mission still won't end, however. The shooting has stopped, and nobody's attacked or been spotted or anything for several turns. It is now turn 14, and I'm pretty sure their leader is the only survivor. Am I supposed to abandon the mission and then it will count as a success?

Also, I've discovered that throwing knives are really, really good. They kill people way better than a .45 Colt/Magnum/AK/whatever does. I'm definitely going to use them a lot more.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 30, 2017, 03:41:11 am
After the shooting stops is when the fun starts for Black Lotus missions. There are assassins hiding in the dark, waiting for an unsuspecting agent to pass by...

Aren't camouflaged units fun?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Taberone on November 30, 2017, 04:04:28 am
After the shooting stops is when the fun starts for Black Lotus missions. There are assassins hiding in the dark, waiting for an unsuspecting agent to pass by...

Aren't camouflaged units fun?

Having fat-as-hell Agents that keep running out of energy searching the entire forest (and every last corner of the actual building itself) is also fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: mumble on November 30, 2017, 04:38:03 am
Well, at least the ninjas are last, rather than pouncing in the middle of being shot

Explosives work very well for them, incendiary grenades in particular screw ups camo.

Also, if you expose most of the map tiles and have few enemies left, you can scan for enemies in bug hunt mode.


I really do give up with the whole magma labs situation : it seems like the map is just impossible on super human, m60s, flamers, riot shields, explosives, I've tried them all but the battle of attrition is just too much, its too much HP to burn through, with too few agents (8 in the dragonfly) with not enough of a fighting chance

I seriously doubt it can be pheasably beaten on super human, because the aggressive swarp, projectiles, and several infectors / megazombies. At best I've wiped out with roughly half the zombies wiped out

I do wonder what can be done to fix this, maybe a higher density of fences / walls to slow down the zombie swarm, or possibly magma security personnel / drones trying to help the situation some. Just something of where this is beatable, because I honestly don't see it to be possible within the expected timeline : with alloy vests, m60s, rpgs and flamethrowers, I would hope it would be possible, but I just cant do it with 8 men in the dragon fly, I get surrounded and picked off too fast every time, and there isn't enough firepower to kill the hoard as fast as they come.

Sorry for the consistent complaints with this mission, but I sincerely think its flat impossible, or at least highly improbable to beat within that level of tech advancement, and I think its a bit harsh of a wall to hide cannons behind : after all they are an invaluable weapon early on, but even the relatively

Some ideas which might subtly adjust the difficulty
-Drones / turrets / security personnel around the level, similar to military operations, which attempt to thin out a few zombies (but obviously won't do everything). This would help substantially in drawing away enemy attacks long enough to get a breather from the first wave. Especially a few static turrets, or even a machinegun armored car would help, and would probably be trashed by zombies quick enough. A gun turret on a pillar in particular would be interesting, even if just 1, and the infectors combined with a few human personel would more than make up for the difficulty change.
-Restructure the level to be slightly more maze like : the industrial zones of the ghoul people in piratez, where doom monsters spawn is a very good example : winding pathways, lots of fences, stairs, and other obstacles to impeded both the zombies / xcom. A few bottlenecks here and there would go a LONG way in making the difficulty manageable.
-Add some more verticality. The flat, mostly open map gives zombies a huge advantage over xcom especially with the numbers : a few buildings that block pathways like mentioned above, or ditches / walls would help substantially in giving xcom a useful terrain to fight from. Perhaps even an approach similar to the sewer level of the cyborgs, with chemical ditches and bridges would be interesting, and give xcom a slight edge.

Sorry for the bitter complaints, but I really do think it simply cannot be done on super human until much later.

....If someone can beat this on super human, let me know. I'd like to know if I'm missing something here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: jepeman on November 30, 2017, 02:16:28 pm
I did the first magma lab mission with mega zombies, etc. by camping in the plane for a long time and reaction shooting / shooting the couple that stayed in sight. They didn't seem to want to come on board the plane? Admittedly, I'm playing on a much lower difficulty, so there might be that too.

Also, thanks for the earlier answer tkzv. Ive continued playing knowing Im in no rush since I already got pretty much all the techs you normally start the vanilla version and the mod content continues after 1999.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 30, 2017, 07:44:42 pm
M.A.G.M.A. lab is challenging, but perfectly doable - even on Superhuman, with the right equipment.
If you don't like the difficulty, why are you playing on Superhuman? Seriously, why is everyone playing on Superhuman? And especially, why is everyone playing on Superhuman and them come to me crying that the game is hard? What else did you expect?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: tkzv on November 30, 2017, 10:14:44 pm
M.A.G.M.A. lab is challenging, but perfectly doable - even on Superhuman, with the right equipment.
If you don't like the difficulty, why are you playing on Superhuman? Seriously, why is everyone playing on Superhuman? And especially, why is everyone playing on Superhuman and them come to me crying that the game is hard? What else did you expect?
What is the difference between difficulty levels? Only the number of enemies? Do they get more hit points? Anything else?

Even this way more enemies mean different puzzles to solve. Higher chance of your transport being surrounded from the start. Crop circles becomes a real battle with unarmed farmers working as spotters for the shotgunner.



By the way, could you explain what happens with the farmer when MiB get there first? His body in Battlescape is called "stunned", but victory debriefing calls him killed. Does he live or die? Selling his body costs player $10 000 — is this the price of the funeral?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: mumble on December 01, 2017, 01:01:53 am
Well, I gave it another whack, and finally did it, albiet with a pretty exploity tactic. I used a high explosive to sabotage the ramp of the dragonfly (and bust out a hold in the side of the right engine) to give myself a platform to fight from where zombies without guns could not reach.

It took 100 turns exactly, and I STILL lost half my troops, but I did it.

....Please do not change the damage values on the dragonfly, as blowing up my own ship was legitimately my only option.

Blowing up your own ship for the win, I guess..

@TKZV : the biggest issue is the sheer amount of melee rush, it feels like I'm roleplaying terran forces fighting zerg while outnumbered out gunned and giving the zergs a few cannons to boot : on SH, the sheer amount means with 8 people its almost impossible to have enough DPS to kill the zombies as they come UNLESS you deny them pathfinding to you, which is why I was successful in blowing up my own ship to survive : no ramp, means no melee threat (though its a horrible waiting game waiting for passing zombies to plink) though the other gunner zombies are a serious threat. I had the first 2 guys with riot shields to help block cannon fire, and while I survived, one guy got killed anyway, and another guy passed out, but lived because cannon fire.

Admitably I probably could of done better, firing a flamethrower out the back of the ship is a bad idea, and got 2 guys killed because flames hitting the sides of the ship, but that really wasn't a huge deal

My conclusion is on super human, its absolutely essential to cut of melee access by any means necessary

As for the numbers, I'm not sure, I know I had over a dozen zombie troopers aand half a dozen megazombies...55 units total I think. Crazy

EDIT : also, apparently I need to capture ALIVE a zombie trooper or megazombie?...not even sure how to go about this, as surviving was hard enough... Maybe I should try the osprey ship to do this, double the amount of troops sounds like it might give me a chance. Though researching that takes a considerable delay past when the missions show up it seems
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Taberone on December 01, 2017, 06:33:29 am
How do I use surfboards on Surf Time missions? Don't see an option to buy them anywhere. Also, is there a way to preview inventory slots for the armor you're stuck with on missions such as surf time? I'm not sure if there's a way to see other than to arrive at the mission first and then discover that the either the gear you bought won't fit or that the armor you're stuck with can carry more than the default suit and tie. I got Ski Resort missions early-ish in the game when I first played this and discovering that I could use the backpack was a shock.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: tkzv on December 01, 2017, 11:28:03 am
How do I use surfboards on Surf Time missions? Don't see an option to buy them anywhere.
You don't buy them, they are just lying around the mission map :)

@TKZV : the biggest issue is the sheer amount of melee rush, it feels like I'm roleplaying terran forces fighting zerg while outnumbered out gunned and giving the zergs a few cannons to boot : on SH, the sheer amount means with 8 people its almost impossible to have enough DPS to kill the zombies as they come UNLESS you deny them pathfinding to you, which is why I was successful in blowing up my own ship to survive
Somehow, I always got this mission months after Skymarshall. No ramp, but doors block line of sight. Haven't played it on Superhuman yet. Though I was nearly overwhelmed even on lowest level.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: mumble on December 01, 2017, 04:26:42 pm
I think maybe the arrival of it is dictated a little bit by difficulty, but also with the tech tree its highly dependent on play style.

On super human with 8 guys, this is the first win (with no captures mind you) I've had, and my goodness it felt exploity. I'll try later with an osprey, see what I can do (hopefully blowing up less buildings containing possible loot)

I have a little more confidence the osprey will work and give me a fighting chance, but i haven't even thought about captures of troopers / megas.

.... Ill need to make a game plan for capturing them, hopefully without a squad full of casualties
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 17, 2017, 11:37:49 pm
Version 0.8 has been released.

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- New weapons: G-11, Asuka 4000, Chitin Knife, Pitchfork.
- New Armor: Dog Durathread Vest.
- New items: Alien Multitool, Alien Alloy Welder, Alien Organ Sample, Alien Embryo.
- New missions: Exobiological Contamination (tiered), Alien Party, Atlantis Temple, Cyberweb Fortress Assault, Cyberweb Battleship Assault.
- New units: Cyberweb Centurion, Tentaculat, Reptoid Commando, Stealth Spider, Flame Spider, Armored Spider, Death Spider.
- New Dossier: Lo Wo (by Mumble, edited).
- Added Large Glock Clip (by tkzv).
- New death screams.
- BlackOps Pistol damage buffed.
- HMG has 10 bullets auto (was 8).
- Flame Glove rebalanced.
- Electro-Flares only glow after throw, but need to be primed.
- Healing Gel is now properly consumed.
- Better Reactions on dogs and their bite trains Reactions.
- Aliens now carry special tools which are important for tech advancement.
- Going to Cydonia now requires completing the T'Leth arc.
- Loadouts no longer depend on month.
- Men in Black now use alloy ammo almost exclusively (except early missions).
- Swarmids no longer show up on Monster Hunts (they are Exobiological Contamination now).
- Some new articles.
- Improved Gauss weapons sprites, by XOps.
- New inventory sprites: Cyberweb Technomad/Space Technomad, Hybrid Infiltrator, Cerebreal Larva, Cybermite, various Floaters, Jarhead, Drone, Bikini Babe, Polar Civilian, Doctor, Farmer and Hunter, all by tkzv.
- Improved Janissary Ufopaedia pics, by tkzv.
- Fixed missing Starting Conditions on Dimension X missions and other similar problems.
- Fixed Deep One Hatchet hit animation.
- Minor fixes to maps.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8 alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: tkzv on December 17, 2017, 11:54:14 pm
Cyberweb is finally beatable!

EDIT: What is the newest OXCE+ version? 3088e4ac6 from 2017-12-12?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8 alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 18, 2017, 09:52:44 pm
EDIT: What is the newest OXCE+ version? 3088e4ac6 from 2017-12-12?

I think so, date is the same. I have used Stoddard's compiled exe.

EDIT: The exe is borked. Re-uploading the mod with the old exe for now, please download 0.8b. (It will be available in a few minutes.) Also features a few more great pics from tkzv.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: HT on December 20, 2017, 05:42:08 pm
Greetings, how is it going? I was considering to start playing this again at lower difficulties to speed up to where my old playthrough was, while waiting for a few more updates for Piratez. Soo, what's new? Ooh, shiny, new weapons, missions, stuff and...

Version 0.8 has been released.

- New units: Cyberweb Centurion, Tentaculat, Reptoid Commando, Stealth Spider, Flame Spider, Armored Spider, Death Spider.

 :o
... KILL THEM WITH FIRE!!


Hopefully they show up late and only during the start of the alien invasion.
By the way, if you don't mind my question Solarius, how long until the Zombies (and later vampires and such) is completed? Just to know, I was considering waiting until this one was done at long last.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.7.6 alpha: Rapid Fire
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 20, 2017, 06:39:19 pm
Hopefully they show up late and only during the start of the alien invasion.

Don't worry, they only appear in Shogg... At least for now. ;)

By the way, if you don't mind my question Solarius, how long until the Zombies (and later vampires and such) is completed? Just to know, I was considering waiting until this one was done at long last.

Glad to know you're interested! There is just one last element to be added, but it's a pretty big one - possibly a whole new terrain will be required. But it's not that much compared to what has already been done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8b alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: HT on December 21, 2017, 03:55:05 pm
Good to know! So it won't take that long, I guess. Will it require editing your saves/starting again though? I suppose that right now with the zombie storyline one can't get to the end part without taking care of the starting cult factions, right?

Also, I'm not sure if it's a bug, but I was messing around with the Quick Battle generator to check which things changed, and I noticed that the last entry of the enemy section has a Reptoid with the ultimate armor from Piratez but with missing text and an odd title. Is that intentional/work in progress?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8c alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: niculinux on December 22, 2017, 07:05:19 pm
Good! The bug with the latest openxcom extnded + that prevented live enemies capturing has been solved? edit: also, seems i cannot view enemies in battlescape mode, using mouse wheel middle click
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8c alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 22, 2017, 07:07:18 pm
Good to know! So it won't take that long, I guess. Will it require editing your saves/starting again though? I suppose that right now with the zombie storyline one can't get to the end part without taking care of the starting cult factions, right?

These arcs aren't really related. But you certainly need to get underground.
Saves are normally transferable, unless I specifically say otherwise.

Also, I'm not sure if it's a bug, but I was messing around with the Quick Battle generator to check which things changed, and I noticed that the last entry of the enemy section has a Reptoid with the ultimate armor from Piratez but with missing text and an odd title. Is that intentional/work in progress?

I don't really know which one you mean, but you're probably right. I think it's the Reptoid Drake - I just fixed it recently.

And 0.8c has been released.

- New paperdolls: Alpha Cryssalid, Policeman, Policewoman, Homicidal Maniac, Homicidal Madman, all by tkzv.
- Language fixes, by Juff.
- Other fixes.

EDIT: More fixes with 0.8d.
- Healing Gel has 5 uses now (was 4).
- Chupacabra attack rebalance.
- Hangars no longer give storage.

Finally, the Jarhead unit sprite was mistakenly credited to XOps, while it was actually made by jackstraw2323 (sans the transformation animation, which I added). I deeply apologize for this mistake.
Jackstraw2323 is also responsible for the Juggernaut armour sprite.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8d alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: mumble on December 24, 2017, 11:15:32 pm
Are medals increasing stats functional yet? I really think it would be an interesting way to have further customization on troops, particularly with medals showing how adept someone is with medkits, pistols, armor, and other stuff.. It would be a good incentive to have for instance a dedicated medic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8d alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 25, 2017, 01:01:57 am
Are medals increasing stats functional yet? I really think it would be an interesting way to have further customization on troops, particularly with medals showing how adept someone is with medkits, pistols, armor, and other stuff.. It would be a good incentive to have for instance a dedicated medic.

Nope, no progress on this front yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8d alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: hellrazor on December 25, 2017, 01:15:14 am
Hi all,

i am kinda passive here, is the mod to some degree playable?
Need some time to pass while i search for new ideas so i thought testing out something new would be nice.

How the hell do you guys have so much too mod...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8d alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: mumble on December 25, 2017, 05:50:00 am
Its very playable and beatable. You start off as a small organization and eventually become a global military superpower fighting aliens.

Very enjoyable mod, makes finally getting body armor and assault rifles feel great
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8d alpha: Stone of Atlantis
Post by: tkzv on December 25, 2017, 08:15:35 am
Hi all,

i am kinda passive here, is the mod to some degree playable?
Need some time to pass while i search for new ideas so i thought testing out something new would be nice.

How the hell do you guys have so much too mod...
The first post lists finished storylines. It forgets to mention that the central arc — about the invaders from Mars based in Cydonia — is also finished. When you win on Mars, the game ends. Although, to get there you need to finish some other arcs: Church of Dagon, Red Dawn and T'leth the last time I checked.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1 alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 27, 2017, 04:54:46 pm
The Cydonia arc was finished in 1994 by Gollop's team, so I didn't think of adding it. ;)

EDIT: Version 0.8.1 has been released.
- New missions: Syndicate Warehouse, Osiron Cruise Liner.
- New weapons: PPSh, Calico, Colt Commando, BlackOps Spypistol.
- Zombie Lab mission slightly rebalanced.
- Renamed Hummer to Humvee, for better accuracy.
- Decreased maintenance cost on Large Living Quarters and Large General Stores.
- Various fixes, including one critical (incomplete loadout for one Dimension X Party mission).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1 alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Kammerer on December 27, 2017, 05:34:20 pm
Solar, the link in the starting post leads to the "Invalid or Deleted File." error. Is everything alright with the upload?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1 alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 27, 2017, 05:37:58 pm
Solar, the link in the starting post leads to the "Invalid or Deleted File." error. Is everything alright with the upload?

Sorry, the MediaFire is having some problems. Reuploading - please expect a new link in half an hour or so.

EDIT: Uploaded to Google instead.

EDIT: A quick fix to enable Asuka 4000 ammo - please replace the file in 0.8.1 with the attached.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: SolRSolid on January 02, 2018, 09:40:29 am
So, what I noticed from 0.7.0 and earlier, wielding shotguns in particular but on other weapons, the game says I have a 100% chance to hit (Or more) but 6 times out of 10 it misses. Is there an explanation to This? Haven't had the time to update but this has happened on every version I've played
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: HT on January 02, 2018, 01:03:48 pm
So, I gave it another try after having not played it for multiple updates and playing Piratez instead, I would like to write down my impressions:

The beginning is more polished than int he early updates, but there's still the trouble that you must attend to countless cases/monster hunts/Arrest Suspects every month in order to have a chance to get some money (is X-Com the only agency taking care of 'supernatural' cases or what?), something which quickly becomes repetitive and boring. Unlike Piratez, here you don't have alternative ways to get money besides the end of the month rating and whatever trinkets you capture and sell. I think there should be something available earlier to the Workshop to ease the player's tedium a little.

Also, while the new weapons are welcome, the starting gear continues to be better than most cases as it was before, and then some of the new additions are of dubious usefulness (for example: What's the point of the Kludge? It seems like a poor man version of better weapons you already have access to).

Then there's a little issue I have with the Cover: 'X' missions. I get what you were trying to do here, but to me they remind me of a worse version than the Gun Trade infiltration missions. Worse, it's a bit silly that your team bothers to carry appropiate gear for infiltration, when the enemy is perfectly okay to carry SMGs and the like in a ski resort without trouble (and without wearing appropiate clothing to boot! Perhaps Dagon makes these cultists cold-resistant?  :)). It made sense in the deep urban infiltration missions for the bad guys to have superior gear since they were arms dealers, but here it seems a bit forced. IMO you also shouldn't start on your vehicle if possible but at some other designated point of the map.

Otherwise, it gives the appearance that the X-Com agents' infiltration failed before starting and they arrived here only to find the criminals evacuated the non-essential personnel and are armed and ready for trouble, while you guys were busy switching clothes. Seeing how often the driver parked in front of the enemy HQ in certain missions though, I bet that's what's happening. ;)


Lastly, the public and private transports should give you some stats about their speed and the like (regardless of how slow they are), if only for comparison for the other craft. That info is still missing.


In any case, thank you for making this mod following your vision!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 02, 2018, 04:37:19 pm
So, what I noticed from 0.7.0 and earlier, wielding shotguns in particular but on other weapons, the game says I have a 100% chance to hit (Or more) but 6 times out of 10 it misses. Is there an explanation to This? Haven't had the time to update but this has happened on every version I've played

*shrug* The mechanics is exactly the same as in other X-Com mods. Weapon stats always vary, but I highly doubt there is anything special in X-Com Files.

So, I gave it another try after having not played it for multiple updates and playing Piratez instead, I would like to write down my impressions:

Thanks a lot for the detailed list of issues. I never have enough opinions!

The beginning is more polished than int he early updates, but there's still the trouble that you must attend to countless cases/monster hunts/Arrest Suspects every month in order to have a chance to get some money (is X-Com the only agency taking care of 'supernatural' cases or what?), something which quickly becomes repetitive and boring. Unlike Piratez, here you don't have alternative ways to get money besides the end of the month rating and whatever trinkets you capture and sell. I think there should be something available earlier to the Workshop to ease the player's tedium a little.

Well, dealing with this sort of things is X-com's only job, unlike in Piratez where you basically run a mercenary business. There is not that much I can give the player to do besides reacting to missions.
I realize the current selection of missions is a bit repetitive (though it gets better). I will work on these as time allows. Also the crop circles missions and the like are kind of a placeholder, since they will be a bit different once we have the reinforcements mechanics in the game.
Adding a smaller/earlier Workshop would not be so bad, I guess. But I will need to design it from scratch - not just the facility itself, but also its use, what you can do there, how much money you should spend, and so on. I will note it down for when I have time.

If you have any other ideas, please also share them.

Also, while the new weapons are welcome, the starting gear continues to be better than most cases as it was before, and then some of the new additions are of dubious usefulness (for example: What's the point of the Kludge? It seems like a poor man version of better weapons you already have access to).

Well, the Kludge is a bit of a special weapon, so I don't think it's the best example. And sure, some weapons are visibly worse than what you already have; I can't see what's wrong with that.
Also, barring the actual worst and best guns, their usefulness heavily depends on player's preferences. I've been humbled many times by unexpected ways people use guns, so I no longer claim to have the best idea on what is good. Let the player decide if a weapon should be added to their arsenal.

Then there's a little issue I have with the Cover: 'X' missions. I get what you were trying to do here, but to me they remind me of a worse version than the Gun Trade infiltration missions. Worse, it's a bit silly that your team bothers to carry appropiate gear for infiltration, when the enemy is perfectly okay to carry SMGs and the like in a ski resort without trouble (and without wearing appropiate clothing to boot! Perhaps Dagon makes these cultists cold-resistant?  :)). It made sense in the deep urban infiltration missions for the bad guys to have superior gear since they were arms dealers, but here it seems a bit forced. IMO you also shouldn't start on your vehicle if possible but at some other designated point of the map.

Well, first of all, enemies of X-Com are badass and they don't care about the weather. :P (I could make a winter clothes version of them, but it's not exactly a priority.)
As for their weapon choice, you are on their territory and that's why they do what they want. I have clarified the description a bit. I could give them worse weapons, but they're already rather unimpresive, and I think it would make the mission too easy.
Starting in a building instead of the vehicle (like in the surfing mission) can be done, yeah. Is that what you'd prefer?

Otherwise, it gives the appearance that the X-Com agents' infiltration failed before starting and they arrived here only to find the criminals evacuated the non-essential personnel and are armed and ready for trouble, while you guys were busy switching clothes. Seeing how often the driver parked in front of the enemy HQ in certain missions though, I bet that's what's happening. ;)

I'm not denying that. :P

Lastly, the public and private transports should give you some stats about their speed and the like (regardless of how slow they are), if only for comparison for the other craft. That info is still missing.

OK, I'll try to add some more info.

In any case, thank you for making this mod following your vision!

Thank you for playing it, despite overall incompleteness!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: tkzv on January 02, 2018, 07:15:30 pm
So, what I noticed from 0.7.0 and earlier, wielding shotguns in particular but on other weapons, the game says I have a 100% chance to hit (Or more) but 6 times out of 10 it misses. Is there an explanation to This? Haven't had the time to update but this has happened on every version I've played
For which enemies did you observe that? For which shotguns? What ammo did you use? Buckshot or armor piercing? How do you tell a hit from a miss? By the enemy collapsing? By fatal wounds? By reading enemy statistics (from savefile or in debug mode)?

Zombies never get fatal wounds and have so many HPs, it takes several point-blank shots from a small shotgun to disable a zombie. Spikeboars have hides so thick, small shotguns do negligible damage. If the distance is longer that a few steps, much of the buckshot misses the target even for 100% accuracy.


Also the crop circles missions and the like are kind of a placeholder, since they will be a bit different once we have the reinforcements mechanics in the game.
Reinforcements for whom? Only the enemy? Will there still be a time limit after which all agents die? Will it become a 3-way fight between X-COM, farmers and MiB?

By the way, you still haven't answered my question about the Crop Circles mission when MiB arrive first. In 0.7.6 (haven't gotten that mission in 0.8* yet) during the battle the farmer's body is called stunned, but after the battle he is called dead with 0 penalty. Which is correct?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: SolRSolid on January 02, 2018, 08:27:55 pm
It happened with all weapons with all enemies. Buckshot shotguns of any kind seemed significantly more effected, but it would happen on everything ranged. Never used melee enough to know if it was affected

---=== Two short posts within two minuts, srsly? Merging. ===---

The bullets just straight up always missed. Hit a wall or something. Left me scratching my head when it told me i had a 150% chance to hit
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: HT on January 02, 2018, 09:23:04 pm

Adding a smaller/earlier Workshop would not be so bad, I guess. But I will need to design it from scratch - not just the facility itself, but also its use, what you can do there, how much money you should spend, and so on. I will note it down for when I have time.

I would suggest to use what already works and give it a spin. For example:

What about something like a minor workshop dedicated to fabricate and sell art pieces and stuff that supposedly belongs to aliens/are part of alien tech? Mechanics-wise, it would be an excuse to give the player a minor source of income that cannot be used to directly improve your troops by building better guns and the like. In-game, it can be justified as using these pieces to track criminals and cultists. If you wish to complicate it more, you can make the dubious legality of the whole thing make the player wonder whether they want to get their hands dirty and if the end justifies the means, yadda yadda (of course it does, these power armor won't build themselves  ;) )

The point is to imitate the still you start with from Piratez, which pretty much enables crafting and selling alcohol and little else, but adapted for X-Files. What do you think?


Well, first of all, enemies of X-Com are badass and they don't care about the weather. :P (I could make a winter clothes version of them, but it's not exactly a priority.)

As for their weapon choice, you are on their territory and that's why they do what they want. I have clarified the description a bit. I could give them worse weapons, but they're already rather unimpresive, and I think it would make the mission too easy.
Starting in a building instead of the vehicle (like in the surfing mission) can be done, yeah. Is that what you'd prefer?

I know, it's not a priority, but having some enemies carry "weather-appropiate" gear would be a good touch, but it's not essential. As for their weapon choice, is not about being in their territory, but more like they already start with the big guns while you must use your restricted gear. It would work better if it was a gradual increase (the first enemies you encounter do use small weapons and reinforcements enemies from further inside the map carry bigger stuff), but I doubt the engine would allow this to work, especially with the randomized terrain.

Starting inside a building for the winter mission would be vastly preferable, of course...

I'm not denying that. :P

... But using Xcom's actual incompetence against them to set up a "failed infiltration mission becomes a shoot-out" could work in a joke mission or two, but it would be better to not to abuse that to avoid pissing off the players.  :)



The bullets just straight up always missed. Hit a wall or something. Left me scratching my head when it told me i had a 150% chance to hit

The numbers are not that precise, there are many variables which are not included such as the enemy's positioning and height, which can alter the result (ie: the bullet flying low enough that it hits the fence the enemy was hiding behind). That's done on purpose to emulate ballistic physics IIRC.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: niculinux on January 02, 2018, 10:11:09 pm
So, I gave it another try after having not played it for multiple updates and playing Piratez instead, I would like to write down my impressions:

The beginning is more polished than int he early updates, but there's still the trouble that you must attend to countless cases/monster hunts/Arrest Suspects every month in order to have a chance to get some money (is X-Com the only agency taking care of 'supernatural' cases or what?), something which quickly becomes repetitive and boring. Unlike Piratez, here you don't have alternative ways to get money besides the end of the month rating and whatever trinkets you capture and sell. I think there should be something available earlier to the Workshop to ease the player's tedium a little.

Also, while the new weapons are welcome, the starting gear continues to be better than most cases as it was before, and then some of the new additions are of dubious usefulness (for example: What's the point of the Kludge? It seems like a poor man version of better weapons you already have access to).

I agree, but maybe the manufaturing in this mod is more like "secound though"? It became more useful a bit more than the start? Hey me too cannot find a reason for the kludge, it may have more sense when some kind of "firearms manufacturing licence" have been researched, so manufacturing homebrew gun may have more sense,another possibility to have more hardware without goin to the market? That may also applies to rifles and smg? My 2cent as always!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 02, 2018, 10:17:44 pm
Reinforcements for whom? Only the enemy?

For now, only the enemy. A more general unit spawning system is a much further goal. (And the one about reinforcements is still mostly wishful thinking, but I have faith.)

Will there still be a time limit after which all agents die?

No, no need for that - I can simply spawn an unstoppable army after X turns. :P

Will it become a 3-way fight between X-COM, farmers and MiB?

Nah, not the right scale. Plus, the farmers can only behave like any other civilian (or alien).

By the way, you still haven't answered my question about the Crop Circles mission when MiB arrive first. In 0.7.6 (haven't gotten that mission in 0.8* yet) during the battle the farmer's body is called stunned, but after the battle he is called dead with 0 penalty. Which is correct?

Truth be told, I need to investigate... I just don't know, I've changed it several times and the recovery code also changed.

I would suggest to use what already works and give it a spin. For example:

What about something like a minor workshop (...)

The point is to imitate the still you start with from Piratez, which pretty much enables crafting and selling alcohol and little else, but adapted for X-Files. What do you think?

Yeah, this is exactly what I need to rethink. XD
But alien art is a bit much, X-Com knows nothing of this sort... At least for many months or years to come.

I know, it's not a priority, but having some enemies carry "weather-appropiate" gear would be a good touch, but it's not essential. As for their weapon choice, is not about being in their territory, but more like they already start with the big guns while you must use your restricted gear. It would work better if it was a gradual increase (the first enemies you encounter do use small weapons and reinforcements enemies from further inside the map carry bigger stuff), but I doubt the engine would allow this to work, especially with the randomized terrain.

Yeah, so for now it stays.
These missions are more like extra challenges anyway. They must be a little weird.

Starting inside a building for the winter mission would be vastly preferable, of course...

OK, I'll see what I can do.

... But using Xcom's actual incompetence against them to set up a "failed infiltration mission becomes a shoot-out" could work in a joke mission or two, but it would be better to not to abuse that to avoid pissing off the players.  :)

Maybe in some Staff Input. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: HT on January 03, 2018, 01:03:15 am

But alien art is a bit much, X-Com knows nothing of this sort... At least for many months or years to come.

Eh, I think having it wait a few months is perfectly fair. You need to wait at least one year to finally have authorization and something to use the workshop for, plus at least Promotion 2 IIRC, so this should become earlier than that. Alien "art" or fakes or whatever to sell shouldn't take that long.

Also, I disagree in any case: In my latest playthrough I stumbled upon an UFO at Month 1, and I somehow recovered it! Granted, the Sectoids killed one of my agents and fatally wounded the other, but I have one free Sectoid corpse to research, as well as a few alien weapons that will rust away until the game no longer pretends they don't exist.  :)
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: tkzv on January 03, 2018, 01:51:08 am
Also, I disagree in any case: In my latest playthrough I stumbled upon an UFO at Month 1, and I somehow recovered it! Granted, the Sectoids killed one of my agents and fatally wounded the other, but I have one free Sectoid corpse to research, as well as a few alien weapons that will rust away until the game no longer pretends they don't exist.  :)
I always get 2-3 UFOs in the 1st month :) But to start investigating alien weapons you need information from a live alien engineer, and what you get is random, thus you need several engineers. Interrogation requires a containment facility, which is impossible to finish in January 1997. I think it's possible to capture a landed UFO later in 1997-98, but I never managed to do that — the detection probability is too low and without interceptors they all leave too quickly.

For now, only the enemy. A more general unit spawning system is a much further goal. (And the one about reinforcements is still mostly wishful thinking, but I have faith.)
The rest of the wishlist has been implemented already :)

Truth be told, I need to investigate... I just don't know, I've changed it several times and the recovery code also changed.
I think, the captured STR_STUNNED_HUMAN_FARMER_CORPSE ("Stunned Human Farmer") after the mission should be turned into STR_STUNNED_HUMAN_FARMER ("Bewildered Farmer"), but killing STR_STUNNED_HUMAN_FARMER ("Bewildered Farmer") should yield STR_HUMAN_FARMER_CORPSE ("Human Farmer Corpse").

These missions are more like extra challenges anyway. They must be a little weird.
How about tying the difficulty of those missions to other arcs? If the player haven't unlocked any cult bases, weapon dealers are the weakest. If bases are unlocked, the dealers get better weapons. If a cult has been defeated, its strongest ex-members may work as hired guns for the dealers :)

The point is to imitate the still you start with from Piratez, which pretty much enables crafting and selling alcohol and little else, but adapted for X-Files. What do you think?
Yeah, this is exactly what I need to rethink. XD
What is the goal? Getting a source of income, or getting a way to manufacture stuff early on?

How about manufacturing without a workshop building? Certain not-too-secret works may be performed offsite. Or maybe it's something like "some assembly required" — doing everything locally is cheaper and faster, but if you place several orders in different civilian workshops and then a single engineer assembles everything together, the secrecy won't suffer. I can't figure the exact mechanics yet.

At first I thought of manufacturing tasks that require 0 space, 0 engineers and fixed time per unit, but I doubt the engine can work like that. If the HQ has manufacturing space of 1 and each manufacturing task has a counterpart that costs more, but requires no extra space, what would we get?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 03, 2018, 07:02:29 pm
How about tying the difficulty of those missions to other arcs? If the player haven't unlocked any cult bases, weapon dealers are the weakest. If bases are unlocked, the dealers get better weapons. If a cult has been defeated, its strongest ex-members may work as hired guns for the dealers :)

Why on Earth would cultists' operations depend on your research? I mean sure, you could justify it somehow, but I'm afraid it starts reeking of gamez.
While I can (and will) make more such missions with varied difficulty, I don't want to spend the rest of my life splashing around the early game. There will be more content, but not now - I want to finish building some basic middle/late game.

Yeah, this is exactly what I need to rethink. XD What is the goal? Getting a source of income, or getting a way to manufacture stuff early on?

I understand it's only about money. There is not much need to manufacture anything earlier anyway (that is, anything that wouldn't require a Workshop). But well, if I add this facility, I will have to come up with something.
(Will probably be called STR_BROOM_CLOSET, unless you have a better idea. :P )

How about manufacturing without a workshop building? Certain not-too-secret works may be performed offsite. Or maybe it's something like "some assembly required" — doing everything locally is cheaper and faster, but if you place several orders in different civilian workshops and then a single engineer assembles everything together, the secrecy won't suffer. I can't figure the exact mechanics yet.
At first I thought of manufacturing tasks that require 0 space, 0 engineers and fixed time per unit, but I doubt the engine can work like that. If the HQ has manufacturing space of 1 and each manufacturing task has a counterpart that costs more, but requires no extra space, what would we get?

I can't see how this would work. Well, the 1 desk "workshop" in the HQ would work, but it would be hideously hackish. If this happens, it will be a proper building.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: HT on January 03, 2018, 08:33:44 pm

How about manufacturing without a workshop building? Certain not-too-secret works may be performed offsite. Or maybe it's something like "some assembly required" — doing everything locally is cheaper and faster, but if you place several orders in different civilian workshops and then a single engineer assembles everything together, the secrecy won't suffer. I can't figure the exact mechanics yet.

At first I thought of manufacturing tasks that require 0 space, 0 engineers and fixed time per unit, but I doubt the engine can work like that. If the HQ has manufacturing space of 1 and each manufacturing task has a counterpart that costs more, but requires no extra space, what would we get?

Well, as Solarius mentions, there's no need to craft anything at the start of the game since everything can be bought at the black market. This was an excuse to generate additional income. As for your second comment, I don't understand what exactly do you mean.

I know that in Piratez, workshop projects that require 0 space still take at least one engineer to function and still take one of the provided "slots", so to speak. Perhaps we could see something like this here.

... At worst, what about having X-COM outright synthesize and sell alcohol actually? Seeing the shit both the (overworked) scientists and agents have to deal with, I'm sure no-one would complain about such new addition.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: tkzv on January 05, 2018, 12:40:14 am
Why on Earth would cultists' operations depend on your research?
Not research, but overall progress. At first the investigators notice only the small fry. Later they learn what to look for and start finding something bigger. Still later X-COM victories leave some very capable people unemployed and they can get this job to make player's life more interesting.

I mean sure, you could justify it somehow, but I'm afraid it starts reeking of gamez.
Of what?

While I can (and will) make more such missions with varied difficulty, I don't want to spend the rest of my life splashing around the early game. There will be more content, but not now - I want to finish building some basic middle/late game.
Where in the game is Osiron arc? When do you expect it to start and end in the finished game? Or are those missions something entirely unrelated to any arc? I assumed that after some fairly late trigger weapon trade missions will grow into something bigger.

I understand it's only about money.
If the game is unbalanced in that regard, money problem can be solved by more missions where enemies guard money briefcases and bags :) Or just carry money on themselves more often.

Apocalypse allowed raiding Cult of Sirius repeatedly. I wonder if anything similar can be implemented in OXC...

There is not much need to manufacture anything earlier anyway (that is, anything that wouldn't require a Workshop). But well, if I add this facility, I will have to come up with something.
(Will probably be called STR_BROOM_CLOSET, unless you have a better idea. :P )

I can't see how this would work. Well, the 1 desk "workshop" in the HQ would work, but it would be hideously hackish. If this happens, it will be a proper building.
As for your second comment, I don't understand what exactly do you mean.

I know that in Piratez, workshop projects that require 0 space still take at least one engineer to function and still take one of the provided "slots", so to speak. Perhaps we could see something like this here.

Depending on how research goes and how much money do I have, I occasionally spend months waiting until I can build a workshop to manufacture some useful stuff like Stun Rods or Dart Pistols.

I imagine this as maybe something like sending an engineer to the nearest city to work in a rented workshop. Thus more time, more money. The problem is: this way the workshop space should be unlimited and it's necessary to have 2 kinds of workshop space: limited for faster on-site manufacturing and unlimited for remote manufacturing.

... At worst, what about having X-COM outright synthesize and sell alcohol actually? Seeing the shit both the (overworked) scientists and agents have to deal with, I'm sure no-one would complain about such new addition. :)
Factory-made medical alcohol is cheaper.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 06, 2018, 12:29:11 pm
Not research, but overall progress. At first the investigators notice only the small fry. Later they learn what to look for and start finding something bigger. Still later X-COM victories leave some very capable people unemployed and they can get this job to make player's life more interesting.

Well, I guess it could be done, yeah. But I don't exactly understand the purpose of it. Sure, you could try and tweak the difficulty ad infinitum, but I'm really not interested in that - if you're up to the challenge, do it; otherwise bail out.
My only concern with such missions is if they're worth doing in terms of rewards.

Of what?

Of artificial game mechanics.

Where in the game is Osiron arc? When do you expect it to start and end in the finished game? Or are those missions something entirely unrelated to any arc? I assumed that after some fairly late trigger weapon trade missions will grow into something bigger.

There is no Osiron arc as such, they just pop up here and there. Unlike cults, they have no overall leadership, and unlike groups like the Cyberweb, they do not have any overarching goal except for getting rich. So like all crime, they can't really be destroyed as a faction - they're just pests.

Anyway, I'm open for suggestions. :)

Apocalypse allowed raiding Cult of Sirius repeatedly. I wonder if anything similar can be implemented in OXC...

Well, one could make a repeatable mission which yields no penalty if ignored.
 
I imagine this as maybe something like sending an engineer to the nearest city to work in a rented workshop. Thus more time, more money. The problem is: this way the workshop space should be unlimited and it's necessary to have 2 kinds of workshop space: limited for faster on-site manufacturing and unlimited for remote manufacturing.

Yeah, it's getting into a trainwreck fast...
So yeah, I can make a starting workshop, but we still need sensible manufacturing projects for it. I'll ponder this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: tkzv on January 08, 2018, 01:44:31 am
There is no Osiron arc as such, they just pop up here and there. Unlike cults, they have no overall leadership, and unlike groups like the Cyberweb, they do not have any overarching goal except for getting rich. So like all crime, they can't really be destroyed as a faction - they're just pests.
As I said above, rising difficulty could introduce their arc nicely. But if there's nothing to introduce...

Anyway, I'm open for suggestions. :)


How about a chance to get the research you missed if you finished another arc too fast? If survivors of the 4 cults, Syndicate and Cyberweb join Osiron, they can be questioned. Still too much work for inadequate reward?

So yeah, I can make a starting workshop, but we still need sensible manufacturing projects for it. I'll ponder this.
The only use for it I can think of is getting new tech you need urgently rather than next month. This does happen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 08, 2018, 11:11:48 am
You can't get locked out from a research by terminating an arc. For example if you terminate Church of Dagon before you capture a Deep One, it doesn't mean you'll never get Deep Ones - there will be other opportunities.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: HT on January 08, 2018, 01:04:27 pm
For starting manufacture projects, what about butchering the monsters you find for parts? You already do that for the medigel thing once you unlock that tech, but something earlier could be done in order to better take advantage of these werewolves' corpses, giant spiders and so on that you don't have any use for. This way you don't have anything for the player to manufacture for the early game while seeing some use for engineers if "alien art manufacturing" is not acceptable.

Later on the player would discover better alternatives to use a proper workshop, such as the aforementioned medigel extraction.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: tkzv on January 08, 2018, 11:59:46 pm
You can't get locked out from a research by terminating an arc. For example if you terminate Church of Dagon before you capture a Deep One, it doesn't mean you'll never get Deep Ones - there will be other opportunities.
What are other ways to get durathread besides killing Red Dawn mambers?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.1b alpha: Syndicate Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 10, 2018, 08:24:16 pm
What are other ways to get durathread besides killing Red Dawn mambers?

Osiron sometimes has it for sale.

And now: Version 0.8.2 has been released!

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- Updated the Russian version.
- New mission: Dimension X Outpost Defense.
- Cyber Armor more resistant to laser (and more expensive).
- Overhauled loot from cult locations.
- Psionic aliens no longer have extra armor, now they get force shields instead.
- Buffed Snakemen defense.
- Improved routes for several terrains (collab with Dioxine).
- Launched the X-Com's Friends on The Council article, listing Patreon donators.
- Fixed the Asuka 4000 gun again (Asuka no baka!).
- Fixed BlackOps Pistol display in Ufopaedia.

EDIT:
If you are interested in translating X-Com Files to your language, now is a good time to start! With SupSuper's help, I placed X-Com Files on Transifex: https://www.transifex.com/openxcom/openxcom-mods/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.2 alpha: Friends on The Council
Post by: hvnlysoldr on January 15, 2018, 09:20:17 am
I was considering to put this into the Bugs topic but this oversight makes for a more fun suggestion into the mod. Basically the updated engine adds another tag to items for explosions. Beforehand fuseTimer was set to -1 to prevent items from exploding including un-primed grenades and set to like 0 to explode on end turn; but now there's a new tag fuseEnabled that when set to false disables the timer. I discovered it when I threw a dynamite to soften up a Muton and it didn't blow up. This tag only fails to generate on Battlescape saves generated in a previous version or continued on from such save. Going in the Equip screen in base or on mission prep properly enables the fuse and of course priming during battle does so. It even has a gray dot indicating its "armed" status versus red. It even shows a red mini-map coordinate showing an armed grenade.
    - id: 81
      type: STR_DYNAMITE
      owner: 106
      previousOwner: 106
      unit: -1
      inventoryslot: STR_LEFT_SHOULDER
      inventoryX: 0
      inventoryY: 0
      position:
        - -1
        - -1
        - -1
      ammoqty: 0
      ammoItem: -1
      ammoItemSlots:
        - -1
        - -1
        - -1
        - -1
      painKiller: 0
      heal: 0
      stimulant: 0
      fuseTimer: 0
      fuseEnabed: false
      tags: ~
Anyway it would be funny to intentionally make an enemy grenadier that needs to first un-prime and then re-prime their grenade and still leave enough TUs for throwing. Or a Kamikaze armed explosive suit with ticking bombs that may or may not explode.
Minesweeper could be made. Spawn dud landmines on the ground on the map sprinkled with live ones. Your mini-map would be a literal mine-field and have some crazy snipers on the other side. It would make it a risk your life to cross the minefield, to even picking up the mines to slowly re-prime them, or to trade sniper pot-shots.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 21, 2018, 01:23:27 pm
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll think about it when I get there. :)

For now, version 0.8.3 has been released.

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- New unit: Horror.
- New mission: Dimension X Wreck.
- Going to Cydonia now requires completing the Dimension X arc.
- Rebalanced Heavy Cannon and Auto Cannon.
- Syndicate CEO got a bit more health.
- Proximity Grenades are a little heavier.
- New Flamethrower animation, by SideQuests.
- Alien Alloys can be found on Osiron and Cyberweb.
- Fixes to Forest, Black Base and White Base terrains.
- Fixed Atlantis Temple mission.
- Minor language fixes.

Also, since X-Com Files are now on Transifex, I will include translations automatically. For now it's still only Russian, since the next most complete language, Japanese, is only 36% finished, and that's definitely too little for release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: Marrik on January 26, 2018, 10:58:32 pm
I'm sorry, where do we download the latest version again?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: Lohland on January 27, 2018, 12:03:36 am
On the first page of this forum
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: Martin on January 31, 2018, 01:18:30 pm
I was thinking... why are there those three hardcoded UFOs in the first month?

Getting your hands on a real alien corpse should be an accomplishment and a milestone, not something you do with some  some skill (or savescumming) in the first month.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 31, 2018, 04:03:50 pm
I was thinking... why are there those three hardcoded UFOs in the first month?

Getting your hands on a real alien corpse should be an accomplishment and a milestone, not something you do with some  some skill (or savescumming) in the first month.

It's mostly a tradition. Also, getting these does not really help you for a long while... I don't have strong feelings about this, so I'm open for ideas and arguments both ways.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: HT on January 31, 2018, 05:21:28 pm
I think it's okay to keep them, since you barely have a chance to get them with the vans and even if you do, it is likely you'll be shot to death by the enemy's superior weaponry.

Having sectoids have psi-shields sounds hax though, since it turns them to extremely deadly threats, especially if the shield keeps regenerating even when they have been wounded. I fear what have the Ethereals become with this modification.

Either way, I'm still waiting for the zombie plotline to be resolved to play this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: Martin on January 31, 2018, 09:12:08 pm
Alien alloys can help quite early.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.3 alpha: It's a Long Way to Cydonia
Post by: mumble on February 02, 2018, 06:47:41 pm
I've gotten a ufo with promotion 0/1 guns myself, but it was a suicide mission, and this was well before the shields, so frankly I'm scared shit less to try now.

I suppose it might be possible with heavy shotgun / Magnum use, and serious luck, but its certainly not as simple as pumping a single slug into the sectoid now. Shame because the income increase alone from a ufo early was a huge boon
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 05, 2018, 10:15:34 pm
Version 0.8.4 is released.

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- New units: Croc Cadet, Giant Beetle Bombardier.
- New missions: Reptoid Fringe Settlement, Reptoid Assassination Squad, Croc Raid, X-Com Slander (Shared Alloy Ammo).
- New items: Skulljack (same as Psiclone, but with Mind Control), Shogg Blade, Storm Rose.
- New facilities: Improved Laboratory, Advanced Laboratory.
- Completely rebuilt Gauss (now called Mass Drivers) and Railgun (now called Gauss) weapons' tech trees, since now they are derived from Reptoids.
- Removed Mind Control option from the Psiclone.
- Rebalanced Psi-Amps and other standard psionic items.
- Decreased Multilauncher's damage.
- Units should now respect weapon range better.
- Dogs drown a little slower.
- Increased Flame Glove accuracy.
- Decreased Precision Plasma accuracy and increased TU costs.
- Added some dodge to vests.
- Buffed accuracy on Floaters and Mutons.
- Increased fire rate on all UFOs.
- Added some alternative ways to find a Durathread Manufacturing.
- A little less chance for Crop Circles and Cattle Mutilation missions.
- Cyberweb Manufacturing Plant mission is more common.
- Constant animation on Shadowbats (by Ivan Dogovich).
- Fixed chaotic access to alien tech.
- Fixed armor transformation mess (thanks to Dioxine).
- Fixed some problems with corpse recovery.
- Fixed a crash on Cyberweb Centurion recovery.
- Fixed crashes related to the Cyberdreadnaught.
- Fixed missions not despawning.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: mumble on February 06, 2018, 12:49:41 pm
No weakening sectoid soldier shields?

I almost wonder if it might be better to segregate sectoid soldiers from sectoid security guards, and have much weaker shields on security guards.

Just capturing one is a huge task, and almost everyone I've talked to sees them as a pretty big hurtle because of how tanky they are.

All in all it really radically changes old balance, where taking a small sectoid ufo was a challenge, but nothing big... Now it feels comparable to a chrysalid / snake ship.

If this stays the case, perhaps chronites should instead be the primary first wave, possibly even ships with mix races, like a bunch of chronite soldiers, sectoid staff, and sectoid leader. After all, seems like sectoid soldiers would be FAR more valuable now than some mass produced chronites / blue dudes ( i forget their name) and I'd figure if sectoid soldiers were more dangerous than chronites, they would save them for raids, terror missions, defense of high value ships / missions, or something of more importance than mutilation of cows... Just a suggestion, because I'm pretty sure sectoids are tougher than mutons now.

.... I really wish there was a way to test this, testing ai mutons vs ai sectoids, seeing who wins
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: yizow on February 06, 2018, 02:46:05 pm
.... I really wish there was a way to test this, testing ai mutons vs ai sectoids, seeing who wins


I could imagine creating a terror mission, fill it with muton terror units and sectoid civilians.
Admittedly, i know next to nothing about the game engine; would that work?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: HT on February 06, 2018, 05:50:37 pm
Version 0.8.4 is released.

- New items: Skulljack (same as Psiclone, but with Mind Control), Shogg Blade, Storm Rose.
- Removed Mind Control option from the Psiclone.


Wow, you're working fast these days, while oddly enough Piratez's next update is taking their time. Still, from what I remember Psiclone was extremely situational, making them unable to mind-control renders them outright useless. Besides, didn't the plot entries from EXALT imply that the drugs they took were a way to induce mental commands from the aliens? Hence why it made sense to allow mind-control of sorts.
No idea about the rest since I'm still waiting for the zombie plot arc to be completed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 06, 2018, 06:57:24 pm
No weakening sectoid soldier shields?

I almost wonder if it might be better to segregate sectoid soldiers from sectoid security guards, and have much weaker shields on security guards.

Just capturing one is a huge task, and almost everyone I've talked to sees them as a pretty big hurtle because of how tanky they are.

All in all it really radically changes old balance, where taking a small sectoid ufo was a challenge, but nothing big... Now it feels comparable to a chrysalid / snake ship.

Yeah, I lowered the shields, but honestly I can't remember if it was in this release or the previous one.
I admit I'm still considering these values. I need to do more testing.

.... I really wish there was a way to test this, testing ai mutons vs ai sectoids, seeing who wins


I could imagine creating a terror mission, fill it with muton terror units and sectoid civilians.
Admittedly, i know next to nothing about the game engine; would that work?

Yeah, sure it would work!
If you want to code it in, you'd have to make new units for "civilian" Mutons (or Sectoids), give them appropriate weapons, and then add them to a terror mission.

Wow, you're working fast these days, while oddly enough Piratez's next update is taking their time. Still, from what I remember Psiclone was extremely situational, making them unable to mind-control renders them outright useless.

Yeah, I've seen enough "situations" to know how broken it was. :P

Besides, didn't the plot entries from EXALT imply that the drugs they took were a way to induce mental commands from the aliens? Hence why it made sense to allow mind-control of sorts.

Not really. I mean, sure, there is some mental effect, but how would a Psiclone "know" what the victim should be doing? It would require active input from an X-Com soldier, and Psiclone only interacts with one person, not two at the same time. And it doesn't have the hardware to convert thoughts into commands. (But Skulljack does.)

No idea about the rest since I'm still waiting for the zombie plot arc to be completed.

Ugh, I should do that as soon as I can... If I were to do it cheaply, it wouldn't be hard, but I'm not sure what I can afford. I need to sit down and discuss it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Starving Poet on February 08, 2018, 12:50:03 am
With some small play ahead testing on this patch, the sectoids and the mutons feel like they have equivalent tanks - except that sectoids have mind control / panic and can see through walls.   It's actually easier for me to fight mutons now than it is sectoid.  It *feels* like Mutons I can wound and take down over time, sectoids I need to alpha if I want any chance.

I can survive a Jan 1999 lab ship with mutons in the dark, I get wiped by the same ship staffed with sectoids.

One possible recommendation that might brind sectoids down to muton level - remove their intelligence stat.  Intelligence or sense, but not both for sectoids.

/edit: Just did a sectoid lab ship - now it just feels like playing Xenonauts.  Anyone alien inside the ship just did nothing but spam PSI or camp the elevator with reaction shots.   
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: mumble on February 08, 2018, 11:20:30 am
Alternatively, couldn't sectoids be really lame in terms of reactions and accuracy, acting more like incredibly over-equiped scientists / military officers than troopers? This would make sense, especially with sectoids being higher up in the class hierarchy, and would explain the heavy defensive technology and other abilities, to compensate for lacking cognitive skills of a small, pudgy body. It would be an interesting dynamic, facing enemies who outgun, out Armor out maneuver and out tech xcom in almost every way, both technologically and mentally, but are unfortunately are still outmatched in raw physical ability.

I know this wouldn't be cannon really, but neither is psi shields, and i feel this would give them a bit of a hard counter, abusing the simplely higher stats, while they themselves are horribly over-equiped.

Also, since we have psi shields now, any possibility of infusion of shields on a target psionically, like sectoids on mechtoids in xcom EU? I THINK it would be very interesting to unlock this as an ability, or even face this as a problem, sectoids for instance infusing a weak, temporary version of psi shield on a meat shield chronite soldier, or even shielding a charging chrysalid.  Because nothing would be more terrifying than a sectoid with a pet chrysalid with a psi shield equivalent of combat armor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2018, 12:26:31 pm
OK, thanks for the feedback guys. I will address it soon.
Perhaps the shields are too strong on Sectoids... Or maybe Mutons are too weak. ;) After all they only really got an Accuracy bonus, which is quite modest compared to Sectoid shields.
I don't really want to lower Sectoids' reactions, because it's a canon thing - for example, they make better pilots than Mutons (by X-Com Interceptor). Maybe I should take away psionics from low rank Sectoids? Or buff Mutons, Snakemen and Floaters further? After all, they are scary alien soldiers from a completely different tech level...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: mumble on February 08, 2018, 01:45:26 pm
I don't think it would be a bad idea making mutons a little beefier, but only slightly.

I understand what you say about sectoids being better pilots, but this is really like comparing a newbie in a brand new fighter jet to veterans in ww2 fighter planes. The sheer amount of tech in terms of ui, weapons, shields, and nimble steering are far more impactful than raw "reaction time" when you consider they also have neural uplinks which dramatically increases reaction time effectively.

Where as reactions on ground is much more than how quickly neurons can fire, it's about handeye coordination, muscle memory, and practice of instinctive reactions, which i sense sectoids aren't REALLY adapted towards like mutons or other groups. Its like comparing the shooting of a kid on csgo compared to an actual marine who is dealing with the weight of the gun, recoil, combat stress, ect. In other words, aren't sectoids giant space nerds with cutting edge tech?

Though if you want some ideas, i figure giving a muton a heavy alien alloy shield, and a pistol would certainly provide some challenge, and fit the shock trooper role. Especially if you make the shield troop more aggressive while others flank, that would be incredibly scary.

Not sure what could be done for other races that the engine can handle, i thought about waspites hatching into those bees monsters just for the hell of it since those guys seem fragile anyway, but that doesn't leave a corpse does it?

Maybe snake men could be given chameleon like camo, and lower tech to fit the whole hunter vibe? Feel like a hunter joins predator with pet chrysalids...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2018, 01:58:23 pm
Yeah, but it still doesn't explain why they're better than Mutons, who use the same fighter ships. Can you please elaborate?
Camo on Snakemen is anexcellent idea!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: mumble on February 08, 2018, 03:09:21 pm
It's literally like my comparison of ranked gamers to marines. If you think about it, fighting in a ship is very similar to a video game. Sure, there's some risk of danger, but the stressors of this danger are somewhat removed.

The sectoid views, in my head canon, ship fights like a puzzle, emotionally removed, like a game. And since this is almost entirely a cerebral process, the sectiod has an edge. Compare this to the dumber, more animalistic mutons, and they aren't as good at such calculations, BUT, are better at primal, instinctive reactions, the "do or die" response, also associated with higher bravery. General physical fitness also applies, a muton is in athletic shape compared to the pudgy sectoid, and pure fitness alone would probably add some edge.

In short, sectoids aren't actually acclimated to combat like mutons are, more shakey from fear as they better grasp mortality than the very primal mutons, which makes them nervous, while also suffering a more frail body less capable of quick reactions.

You could also make the comparison of a jock in dodge ball / nerd playing Mario. Both are good in respective jobs, and both involve reaction time, but the jock, less acclimated to Mario would be worse, while the nerd would be less reactive in dodge ball.

Tl;dr, i think you are assuming reactions apply across the board, rather than differentiation of reactions in front line combat, and reactions in the "relative" safety of an incredibly strong ufo hull, which is also semi equipped to survive crashes.

I guess you could say the sectoid is impeded by its nerves in reacting, or that the unpredictable nature of the battlefield makes them less effective at reacting. Overly linier mindset and all.

I also may have other ideas... Perhaps a self destructive core inside chronites making them explode on death, and possibly waspites hatching into bee swarms on death. Or just releasing acidic spores which make any non waspite turn into a hostile fungal mass if it kills , immobile, but shooting more spores similar to a silacoid, very low range and very innaccurate, but extremely dangerous in close quarters. I think this would be fitting, since waspites were so damn fragile in fmp.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2018, 04:04:18 pm
I don't think the nerd/beast distinction is at all realistic. In the military, such words are absolutely meaningless; there is only trained and untrained. Well, another factor is morale, but it would probably favour Mutons rather than Sectoids. I am not torpedoing your ideas for the sake of it, but this explanation seems unconvincing.
Another simple or simplistic - idea I had was simply that Mutons, being tall and heavy, are simply less suited to high-g than Sectoids. Sectoids have very light bodies relative to muscle strength and are physically small, so they can risk bolder manoeuvres - because they won't get knocked out by them. So maybe it's not as much skill as physical predisposition. The problem is, this wouldn't really matter with gravity generation technology since everything is taken care of with a simple grav buffer (which counteracts any issues with extreme acceleration).

The ideas for Chtonites and Waspites are interesting, but seem a bit extravagant. I will certainly buff Waspites somehow, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: HT on February 08, 2018, 04:41:29 pm
I think having only high-rank Sectoids carry psychic shields would be fair, considering that despite being the "grunt" alien unit, they can use ANY weapon of their arsenal and have no-LoS psychic powers, making they way more fearsome than vanilla already.

Having late-game X-Com power armors with force-fields sounds good too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2018, 05:23:39 pm
I can agree tp removing psi attacks, but the shield stays. XD
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: mumble on February 08, 2018, 05:38:52 pm
I think you have a too high focus on military being grunts. Sure everyone is trained, but an airforce jet mechanic is not comparable to a marine. Military still has cooks, doctors, scientists, scouts, ect, and obviously these are not all as hardened, or expected to be as hardened as marines.

This is what i meant, despite technology, mutons are first and foremost GRUNTS designed for combat. Sectoids are more so  for science work, research, and other secondary tasks it seems. Their psionic ability, intelligect, and other aspects makes them more favorable to gathering / intel missions than full on combat, despite all the tricks they have, and you wouldn't want to waste sectoids on overly dangerous missions when you could use chronites, mutons or anthropods, which are arguably cheaper to produce. I suppose the reason they do terror missions (the only real dangerous missions) is to gather statistics on horror and demoralizing humans.

I mean, this is all just head canon to justify sectoids being balanced in a new way, but clearly the aliens don't just view everyone as grunts equally, even the lore states otherwise, that anthropods and chronites are made for just grunts, primarily.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2018, 08:49:38 pm
I guess. But aliens are less diverse than humans...
Honestly, I don't know what to do. I just got feedback from Dioxine how Sectoids are no problem at all. Who should I believe? Maybe I just need to buff other races?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: mumble on February 08, 2018, 11:54:55 pm
I'm honestly not sure if dioxine is the best opinion on difficulty, considering hes a little bit of a madman about making things hard. Take his opinion with a grain of salt, hes the same guy who makes maps with acid rain, regenerating zombies, deserts that give heat stroke in 2 turns, and other stuff. Of course anything you can make would be no problem for him.

Also, has he ever complained you made anything too hard, ever?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 09, 2018, 10:49:23 am
I'm sure he would be happy to hear it. :)
I will work on this anyway.  Balancing aliens is the hardest, since they are supposed to be the highest tier of enemies, but at the same time possible to overcome even in the early game. So... no promises at this point.
But remember: as opposed to vanilla, fighting aliens is not supposed to be fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: yizow on February 09, 2018, 11:21:21 am
I'm not sure how relevant my input would be here; I'm only on March 1999, playing veteran, and have only encountered sectoids so far. The biggest ship i've had was this landed 3 story one, fat middle circle/ ring and narrow top and bottom.

im using UAC rifles (normal ammo) and smart magnum (alloy ammo)
I don't find the sectoids tankiness to be a problem. 3 solid hits ish, they go down; their weapons cant one-shot my alloy vest generally.

i do find their map-wide psi spam annoying though. : [ feels like theres not much counterplay except pray RNGesus doesn't mind control someone and then panic the 4 guys next to him. (i've started spreading out more to minimize that risk)
I also didn't know about their sense on top of everything else.

Taken together, i feel it makes sectoids more tedious and annoying to fight; not necessarily difficult. If its possible to make psi range be centered around sectoids, instead of global, i think that would make for an interesting mechanic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.4 alpha: Gauss Curves
Post by: Martin on February 09, 2018, 02:48:18 pm
Sectoids are perfectly beratable even with shields up. Even starting shotguns can drop them with some
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 14, 2018, 12:22:22 am
Version 0.8.5 has been uploaded.

- Integrated Otto Hartenstein's AI units mod (tanks as a soldier type, not HWPs); also added Gunship chassis (by Otto).
- New missions: Bank Robbery (Assassin Clans), Chupacabras Lab, Tower of Desolation.
- New X-Com Slander missions, happening when starting cults are left unchecked despite having the means to shut them down.
- Snakemen are now a bit stealthy.
- Mutons are noticeably faster.
- Slow reload on Tommygun.
- Osprey no longer crashes Crop Circle missions (thanks, Otto).
- Fixed crashing on base defense.
- Fixed crashing on HWP/Gauss ufopaedia page.
- Fixed Boomeroid waypoints.
- Minor bug fixes.
- Minor language fixes.

WARNING: BEFORE UPGRADING, SELL ALL YOUR TANKS.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 14, 2018, 12:30:21 am
WARNING: BEFORE UPGRADING, SELL ALL YOUR TANKS.

I recommend also selling most of your HWP ammo, since they will become full clips instead of single shots and take 8-60 times more storage space depending on the ammo type.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: NazarTyagun on February 17, 2018, 08:36:55 pm
Hey. So I do not need to start a new game when upgrading from 0.8.3? And yet, is it normal that I can not produce heavy plasma after its research? (research of cartridges done)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 17, 2018, 08:48:41 pm
Hey. So I do not need to start a new game when upgrading from 0.8.3? And yet, is it normal that I can not produce heavy plasma after its research? (research of cartridges done)

Yeah, you can upgrade to the latest version, but if you have any tanks, sell them first.

Manufacturing Heavy Plasma Clip requires also Plasma Weapons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: NazarTyagun on February 18, 2018, 11:16:27 pm
Hello again! Authors do not do not want to integrate this modification: Shadics Armors (colored energy suits without helmets) ?? I would be glad. And, probably, not only me!
now it works, if on in the options. But on many variants of armor the inventory is incorrectly displayed. Also, of course, hairstyles and vanilla c-com faces/
    How can I disable the counterattack of UFO or how to avoid it? it seems that I just lost, because my ship with elite soldiers was shot down, and the second group I lost before.

a little off topic. What exactly affects the level of difficulty of the game?
Thank you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 18, 2018, 11:33:17 pm
Hello again! Authors do not do not want to integrate this modification: Shadics Armors (colored energy suits without helmets) ?? I would be glad. And, probably, not only me!

Well, which colour would be better than vanilla? And why?
Geez.

now it works, if on in the options. But on many variants of armor the inventory is incorrectly displayed. Also, of course, hairstyles and vanilla c-com faces/

Wat?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: NazarTyagun on February 19, 2018, 12:14:43 am
a small customization?) soldiers by specialization ... no? then this is only important for me)
(I'm talking about this mod)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 19, 2018, 01:02:42 am
Dude, soldiers in X-Com don't have specializations...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: NazarTyagun on February 19, 2018, 11:57:24 am
of course I know that there are no specializations), but some fighters get melee weapons (shotguns, maybe knives, grenades), some get sniper rifles, paralyzing weapons, launchers. Then they have a red, blue, yellow or other armor.
it simplifies the management of units on the battlefield
   Also, the soldiers are even more different from each other, because their skin color, hair is visible.
   so, we get "customization"  ::)
     sorry, I just thought that you did not understand what I meant
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 19, 2018, 01:32:36 pm
Yes, indeed I misunderstood. Sorry.
So now I understand you would like to give different armour colours for each role. This is a fine idea, but unfortunately the engine doesn't allow to do this in an elegant way. What can be done is creating many copies of the same armour, just with different colours. This would clutter the menus, I don't like it.
I think the best way would be to update Shadics' mod to work with X-Com Files and use it along the main mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.5 alpha: Metal Machines
Post by: NazarTyagun on February 19, 2018, 02:40:12 pm
Exactly! but my knowledge is enough only to activate both mods and look at the image of synthetic armor in the equipment window, when there
  there is a "red power armor" ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 01, 2018, 11:28:29 pm
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom) :D

But seriously, feel free to ask if you want to learn. Maybe join the OXC Discord, most of us modders practically live there - much easier to get help.

EDIT: Version 0.8.6 was released.
- Power Mace now has a flat rate attack (always 17 TUs).
- Hangar has storage space again, but now items are confined to storage areas.
- New units: Feral Carcharodon, Feral Lobsterman (co-op with Helrica).
- New missions: Sea Monster Hunt (by Helrica), Night of The Lobsters.
- New terrain: cacti-less desert (for outside of the Americas).
- Added 8 new faces.
- New backgrounds for X-Com and some cults related articles (by Arvidus).
- Set Democratic Republic of Congo flag to the appropriate one for the time period (by Arvidus).
- Added missing article for the Pickup.
- Game now starts on Veteran by default.
- Asuka now also requires Tactical Sniper Rifle Manufacturing.
- Increased damage of Alien Laser Cannon to 60.
- Updated Madman armor.
- Streamlined terrain generation in cult locations.
- Fixed Minigun accuracy (was too high for the extra kneeling bonus).
- Fixed requirements for producing HWP fusion balls.
- Fixed requirements for researching Fusion Defenses.
- Fixed training speed.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: HT on March 02, 2018, 04:06:29 pm
Yay, another update, another day that the end of the zombie plotline comes closer!

Still, what do you mean with "game starts on veteran by default"? I thought that you can always choose difficulty upon starting? Also, more lobsters to worry about, yay or nay?

Random question: Is your mod perfectly playable if you activate the 50-150% rule, Solarius?

Also, will you implement "Hunter-Killer" enemy ships? It seems to be all the rage lately, but personally I don't think the game was meant to have that, aliens already have several advantages over your ships and even more so in X-Files, where bribing enough UN officials to finally let you use a 4-people van instead of a run-down car is a privilege.*

Also also: Will there ever be an upgrade to the "private airline" 'vehicle'? Having it be a 2-units car makes it quite useless from my own experience so far, unless stuff changed in the latest versions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: mumble on March 02, 2018, 08:41:21 pm
The 50 150 rule wouldn't make it unplayable, but would certainly fuck with balance.

First off, combat armor would be a little overpowered as you effectively raise the resistance of it, and its already kinda powerful as is, to the point it effectively negates small caliber shots to the front 90% of the time, and reducing max incoming damage as well, putting more weapons in the "harmless" threshold. Shotguns especially would be really nerfed, and melee enemies too.

The armor was pretty well balanced in this, and I'd estimate that 50 150 would be far easier up till facing sectopods.

I don't want to speak for scorch, but I doubt hunter killers would apply within the first 2 years for sure, possibly even 3 years since migs are a terrible match for ufos. I'd be utterly shocked if he added hunter killers then, and if he did, it would probably be an extremely rare 1 off kick in the nuts.

Private car has an upgrade to hummer at promotion 2. 5 seats, almost as fast as private car, and of course infinite range.

Anyways on to a bit of my own input.

Not sure when it happened, but allowing events to time out as you travel to them is extremely nice : i actually have a reason to use private car now, instead of vans at all times, since madman killers in particular require speed.

Exalt brainers seem too psionically tough, anyone with bravery under 40 is putty for them, and I even had a bravery 70 guy get mind controlled despite high moral. I can understand A brainer being a threat, but and having psionics, but I'd notch down its power.

Considering you altered drones recently, any chance we can get alternative drones for scouts with smg, or rifle ammo? Particularly a higher capacity, the 50 damage burst is great, but 6 shots really lowers flexibility, especially since it cannot carry a reload by itself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 02, 2018, 08:53:38 pm
Yay, another update, another day that the end of the zombie plotline comes closer!

...hopefully :)
I haven't really started working on the final stage.

Still, what do you mean with "game starts on veteran by default"? I thought that you can always choose difficulty upon starting?

Of course you can choose difficulty level. But instead of Beginner, the button that is pressed on the "New Game" screen is Veteran now. That's what "by default" means. :P

Random question: Is your mod perfectly playable if you activate the 50-150% rule, Solarius?

Hmmm... I don't know. Should be, but... what Mumble said.

Also, will you implement "Hunter-Killer" enemy ships? It seems to be all the rage lately, but personally I don't think the game was meant to have that, aliens already have several advantages over your ships and even more so in X-Files, where bribing enough UN officials to finally let you use a 4-people van instead of a run-down car is a privilege.*

Yeah, the feature is present in the mod. A bit.

Also also: Will there ever be an upgrade to the "private airline" 'vehicle'? Having it be a 2-units car makes it quite useless from my own experience so far, unless stuff changed in the latest versions.

Sure. Pickup, Hummer, Skyranger... :P

Exalt brainers seem too psionically tough, anyone with bravery under 40 is putty for them, and I even had a bravery 70 guy get mind controlled despite high moral. I can understand A brainer being a threat, but and having psionics, but I'd notch down its power.

I dunno, does it make the mission that much harder? After all he's not just any hybrid, he's a good hybrid.

Considering you altered drones recently, any chance we can get alternative drones for scouts with smg, or rifle ammo? Particularly a higher capacity, the 50 damage burst is great, but 6 shots really lowers flexibility, especially since it cannot carry a reload by itself.

Not planned right now. Maybe in the future.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: mumble on March 03, 2018, 12:02:21 am
I think so, the exalt mansion is an absolute MESS of flanks, with many gunners, unpredictable fighting (for xcom mind you) and other issues. 8 troops is really pushing it for if its possible, but a bigger craft would work, but honestly i need promotion 3 for a skyranger and such.

Its a nasty conflict also, between staying together and staying alone. Staying alone means you get slaughtered by flanks, staying together means that you get slaughtered by a 70 bravery guy using a light minigun against his own buddies as other people flank and kill you.

Also understand, the risk of psionics in longer battles is exponentially worse, since there's around 100 security personnel, who are all trying to kill you while you are bombarded almost every turrn with psi attacks. Pure rng will screw you in the end at that rate.

Its not as bad as trying the magma lab with a dragonfly, but it seems a little rough. Honestly i wouldn't mind swapping a few guards for guard dogs too.

By the way, what do you research to unlock the heavy cannon? I did magma lab with the large 14 unit crafted, bringing back a live zombie trooper, and never got anything back from magma corporation, did i miss, or perhaps blow up, something important?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: yizow on March 03, 2018, 03:51:01 am
You can check research requirements from the geoscape by pressing 'q'. This will bring up a research menu.
Press 'q' again, type in 'heavy cannon', press enter, and then you can click the entry and check what requirements you're missing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: HT on March 03, 2018, 03:16:14 pm
Sure. Pickup, Hummer, Skyranger... :P

I know about the later choices, but I was thinking if there would be a "van equivalent" of private airlines, but it seems it already exists by now with the Hummer and similar stuff, I meant to say that with the "*" from my previous post but I forgot to add my explanation.

Anyway, if you do use HK UFOs, hopefully they won't appear until after the cults are dealt with.

Random question: Will the Jeep/Hummer be usable in air-combat at some point? Regardless of whether it's a good choice or not, just to know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2018, 10:03:15 am
The Humvee is as useable for air combat as any other vehicle, as long as you can catch up. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Human Ktulu on March 04, 2018, 11:40:31 pm
Hey Solarius !

It been long time I was dont play with Open Xcom. I just trow little eye on news and *booom* I found this superb project.
I love the idea that we run over strange events with only two agents like Mulder and Scully !

On the other hand, the idea of using a hangar to buy a plane ticket is a bit of strange, but I assume that it is a technical limitation.
Good luck for the future and for your patreon funding !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 09, 2018, 10:53:52 am
Sorry for the late response, Human Cthulhu!
Just wanted to say thanks, and that without your initiative, neither FMP nor XCF would happen. Or at least not so early.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: BlackStaff on March 11, 2018, 03:25:30 pm
I'm a very old UFO and TFTD player.
Recently I discovered OpenXcom. That's beautiful.
And now I discover OXCE+ and XFiles.
Unbelievable! Congratulations on your work! Bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo! And thank you!  :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2018, 06:20:47 pm
I'm a very old UFO and TFTD player.
Recently I discovered OpenXcom. That's beautiful.
And now I discover OXCE+ and XFiles.
Unbelievable! Congratulations on your work! Bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo! And thank you!  :)  :)  :)

Wow, thanks man. :)

And to give you all an update: I'm currently working on stuff related to the final stages zombie arc, namely the "mummyland" - kingdoms of the greatest zombie masters. The terrain will take the longest, as I need to make some nice underground ruins settlements, as well as the units themselves - then missions, etc. Shouldn't take too long.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: HT on March 12, 2018, 12:56:54 am
Yay, we're going to get the end of that arc! Although, from what you're telling, in X-Files a zombie's evolution path is:

Zombie>Fat Zombie>Infector Zombie>Tomb Guard/Ghoul>Zombie Knight>Zombie Queen>Mummy??

The last one seems a downgrade. Hopefully they're vulnerable to whip attacks, or, failing that, fire. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: khade on March 12, 2018, 11:10:37 pm
They guilt you into surrendering.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Martin on March 13, 2018, 02:49:42 pm
Zombie>Fat Zombie>Infector Zombie>Tomb Guard/Ghoul>Zombie Knight>Zombie Queen>Mummy??

I belive ghouls are created by deliberately starving regular zombies so they don’t undergo metamorphosis into fat zombie. Just like giant zombies are made by overfeeding fat zombie while medicating it in a way that prevents metamorphosis into an infector.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2018, 08:30:51 pm
Yeah, but it's still pretty close: zombie -> fat zombie -> infector -> tomb guard/strix -> vampires (multiple types) -> mummy. Ghouls are a side branch, and zombie troopers and megazombies are artificially made.

The last one seems a downgrade.

(https://i.imgur.com/GfQUsg7.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: mumble on March 13, 2018, 10:18:17 pm
I'd hesitate to call that a typical definition of a mummy, but I suppose that would make sense considering the xcom lore. Though if this is the case, maybe zombies would be involved with cult of Dagon? I mean, its a different thing kinda, but dagon works with pyramids, which are typically Egyptian and so are mummies, so maybe these tombs of zombies can actually be researched from dagon people? Would make slightly more sense than suddenly finding tombs because reasons, with no mentioned tracking as far as I'm aware, and I could see a partnership between fish people cults and zombie groups, at least in terms of the ones with higher sentience. So maybe representatives of dagon and mummies could work together...?

By the way, are you going to add inventory items that alter stats like piratez does? This might be a good way to flesh out advanced medicine, perhaps with drugs patches to raise stats in expense of others. Maybe a stimulant to raise reactions and stun regen, at the cost of aim and bravery, a steroid patch to raise strength energy and melee, at cost of health, and a mild relaxer, raising bravery and aim, at the cost of reactions and energy. Just a little thought, this was added a little while ago but you haven't added anything that utilized this ability.

Edit : so apparently getting alien origins is almost impossible till 1999 with the recent ufo changes, where up till the invasion there's no ufos. This means for 6 months I'm effectively sitting around doing research, as many things are lmpossible to get until i get an alien corpse.

I'm not really against lacking ufos, but maybe we could make a mission branch involving hybrids and a sectoid, after researching the alien communicator? This would be more reasonable, i think, than waiting for several months, and would be a nice transition into fighting aliens, having a compound with heavily armed hybrids and maybe a couple posted sectoids, and other stuff.

Besides, seeing how the invasion is planned, but alien operations still happen on earth, it would make sense to have sleeper cells of low level aliens somewhere on earth, managing the hybrids, processing data, and being in charge of operations on the ground. Besides, it might be an interesting opportunity to expand hybrid lore, perhaps something about people being abducted and relentlessly genetically modified till they are hybrids. And it would make sense the network on the ground of hybrids, and the aliens in charge of them, being in charge of the tops of the cults, as they have more direct Intel to the earth and its events than an ethereal across the solar system.

I think maybe it could happen after researching the communicator and terminating a cult, that you get missions which are pretty much just call locations from alien's frantically trying to get in contact with the defunct cult to repair damages done, unaware that xcom has cracked their systems, then invading the compound.

Sorry for such a large suggestion, but I think this change would be a great transition to hybrids and aliens. Also, ufos are incredibly infrequently and hard to catch anyways with promotion 2 gear, assuming they do come early  so i feel this would make overcoming that hump more reasonable, even if a compound raid was difficult.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 14, 2018, 04:39:33 pm
I'd hesitate to call that a typical definition of a mummy, but I suppose that would make sense considering the xcom lore.

This is exactly how mummies were often portrayed a hundred years ago, though. The shambling undead in bandages archetype came later.

Though if this is the case, maybe zombies would be involved with cult of Dagon? I mean, its a different thing kinda, but dagon works with pyramids, which are typically Egyptian and so are mummies, so maybe these tombs of zombies can actually be researched from dagon people? Would make slightly more sense than suddenly finding tombs because reasons, with no mentioned tracking as far as I'm aware, and I could see a partnership between fish people cults and zombie groups, at least in terms of the ones with higher sentience. So maybe representatives of dagon and mummies could work together...?

You know who else has pyramids? Cydonians. And what shape are Dimension X gates in Apocalypse? They're pyramids.
Let's associate everything with everything. Though it's an interesting concept as a false lead. ;)

By the way, are you going to add inventory items that alter stats like piratez does? This might be a good way to flesh out advanced medicine, perhaps with drugs patches to raise stats in expense of others. Maybe a stimulant to raise reactions and stun regen, at the cost of aim and bravery, a steroid patch to raise strength energy and melee, at cost of health, and a mild relaxer, raising bravery and aim, at the cost of reactions and energy. Just a little thought, this was added a little while ago but you haven't added anything that utilized this ability.

Maaaaaaybe. I mean, some of the things you mentioned are certainly impossible (strength bonus? eh?), while other seem superfluous in X-Com Files.

Edit : so apparently getting alien origins is almost impossible till 1999 with the recent ufo changes, where up till the invasion there's no ufos. This means for 6 months I'm effectively sitting around doing research, as many things are lmpossible to get until i get an alien corpse.

As I said before, I will probably set some alternatives, like T'leth. But you need something, this is as designed.

I'm not really against lacking ufos, but maybe we could make a mission branch involving hybrids and a sectoid, after researching the alien communicator? This would be more reasonable, i think, than waiting for several months, and would be a nice transition into fighting aliens, having a compound with heavily armed hybrids and maybe a couple posted sectoids, and other stuff.

Sorry, more reasonable to what? What is the idea behind this suggestion? I can't see any problems now.

Besides, seeing how the invasion is planned, but alien operations still happen on earth, it would make sense to have sleeper cells of low level aliens somewhere on earth, managing the hybrids, processing data, and being in charge of operations on the ground. Besides, it might be an interesting opportunity to expand hybrid lore, perhaps something about people being abducted and relentlessly genetically modified till they are hybrids. And it would make sense the network on the ground of hybrids, and the aliens in charge of them, being in charge of the tops of the cults, as they have more direct Intel to the earth and its events than an ethereal across the solar system.

Hybrids lore will be expanded.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: wolfreal on March 14, 2018, 09:48:49 pm
Hello.

I want to play the mod again but I can not find the recommended options to play it. Can we have a post it about them?

 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 14, 2018, 11:34:55 pm
Hello.

I want to play the mod again but I can not find the recommended options to play it. Can we have a post it about them?

All critical settings are enforced in the mod. The rest is up to you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: mumble on March 15, 2018, 04:16:47 am
Sorry for being unclear.

I was recommending after a cult is terminated and an alien communicator is researched, that missions begin popping up, involving coordinates occupied by hybrids and sectoids, which are reaching out via the communicators trying to repair the now damaged cult. After all, its a big hole in their plan.

This mission would be a bit easier than ufos, and more importantly, easier to reach with dragonflies / hummers, since it would be a static mission instead of a speeding ufo.

As for the mission content, perhaps a small bunker with plenty of hybrids, better armed (and protected) than normal, perhaps a few moderately well armed sectoids, and items that expose elements of the hybrids. Genetic alteration equipment, and other stuff, which can then be used to track caravans. After all it feels like there isn't much reason to track said caravans, other than a mission popping up.

One of the reasons I'm recommending this, is the likelihood of getting promotion 3 seems really uncertain before the invasion, and being invaded without rockets, fighter jets, or larger carriers seems like a nasty game over condition, and fighting to get these up post invasion, even by a month is a little frightening of a prospect, but i don't know how harsh the invasion is the first 3 months in xcf.

I almost wonder if the requirement for promotion 3 should change, as requiring a live alien capture when you have no fighter jets, while not impossible, is a little shakey. Especially with how nasty sectoids are now, and how ufos easily outrun any promotion 2 craft

Perhaps the requirement should be adjusted for instead infiltration of hybrids, and interrogation of a higher up hybrid to confirm alien commanders irrefutably? This way one can become ready pre invasion. Much more reliably.

It also feels really weird how of all the evidence, interrogation of literally any alien is the key to promotion 3, not uncovering a hybrid plot, not shutting down a cult and showing how crazy it is, not exposing existence if aliens or alien tech, but interrogation of a live alien. Yet capturing one feels like it would require promotion 3. I don't know what is involved in alien containment but I figure it uses space age tech which is heavily restricted, and it doesn't feel natural waiting to nab a live alien for promotion 3. The tactics readout for promotion 2 also doesn't even mention alien origins, and since the ufo changes this is a little rough to get, even if some show, dragonflies and hummers rarely reach them, and if you do, its a nasty fight. It feels like you need to get really lucky to get promotion 3, and it feels like your goal of termination of a cult doesn't matter, despite the tactics page saying this is what you should do.

At very least, we should have some changes to say what you need to do in the general strategy page after promotion 2, for what we are supposed to do, as for a while i thought research was broken, since you really don't run into aliens in the first 2 years,and if you do, it takes gobs of research to unlock alien containment.

I'm just not sure, it feels like a very shakey, odd, and un-natural transition to promotion 3, and considering how important promotion 3 is, i think it should be made more reliable, even if it was segmented off slightly to where bigger things like rocket launchers, high explosives, and craft rockets were behind additional barriers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 15, 2018, 09:32:14 am
Sorry for being unclear.

I was recommending after a cult is terminated and an alien communicator is researched, that missions begin popping up, involving coordinates occupied by hybrids and sectoids, which are reaching out via the communicators trying to repair the now damaged cult. After all, its a big hole in their plan.

You keep implying that the aliens from Mars are behind all the cults. But it's obviously no true - they only really support EXALT, and maybe Red Dawn to a small degree. Other organizations have no direct connection to Cydonia.

This mission would be a bit easier than ufos, and more importantly, easier to reach with dragonflies / hummers, since it would be a static mission instead of a speeding ufo.

As for the mission content, perhaps a small bunker with plenty of hybrids, better armed (and protected) than normal, perhaps a few moderately well armed sectoids, and items that expose elements of the hybrids. Genetic alteration equipment, and other stuff, which can then be used to track caravans. After all it feels like there isn't much reason to track said caravans, other than a mission popping up.

More hybrid/sectoid missions would be a good idea.

One of the reasons I'm recommending this, is the likelihood of getting promotion 3 seems really uncertain before the invasion, and being invaded without rockets, fighter jets, or larger carriers seems like a nasty game over condition, and fighting to get these up post invasion, even by a month is a little frightening of a prospect, but i don't know how harsh the invasion is the first 3 months in xcf.

I almost wonder if the requirement for promotion 3 should change, as requiring a live alien capture when you have no fighter jets, while not impossible, is a little shakey. Especially with how nasty sectoids are now, and how ufos easily outrun any promotion 2 craft

Perhaps the requirement should be adjusted for instead infiltration of hybrids, and interrogation of a higher up hybrid to confirm alien commanders irrefutably? This way one can become ready pre invasion. Much more reliably.

You are presenting all this like getting Alien Origins was incredibly tricky, which clearly it is not. And I already sai9d twice I will make some alternatives.

It also feels really weird how of all the evidence, interrogation of literally any alien is the key to promotion 3, not uncovering a hybrid plot, not shutting down a cult and showing how crazy it is, not exposing existence if aliens or alien tech, but interrogation of a live alien. Yet capturing one feels like it would require promotion 3.

It doesn't, people assault landed UFOs all the time. Seriously, what's so hard about it?

At very least, we should have some changes to say what you need to do in the general strategy page after promotion 2, for what we are supposed to do, as for a while i thought research was broken, since you really don't run into aliens in the first 2 years,and if you do, it takes gobs of research to unlock alien containment.

OK, I will make it a bit clearer.

I'm just not sure, it feels like a very shakey, odd, and un-natural transition to promotion 3, and considering how important promotion 3 is, i think it should be made more reliable, even if it was segmented off slightly to where bigger things like rocket launchers, high explosives, and craft rockets were behind additional barriers.

Polishing is underway. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Dakkon on March 18, 2018, 08:56:09 am
Hi Solarius, I just wanted to voice that I really enjoyed playing openxcom with your mod; it's definitely my favorite compilation/overhaul mod on this forum. I've provided some feedback below.

Ingame I played up until a few months after the aliens started arriving on earth in force. Overall I enjoyed the early game missions and progression, but I think it could definitely do with some variation. The version I played was 6.5 and I felt that the four major early game factions in that build (EXALT, Church of Dagon, Black Lotus, and Red Dawn) all felt too similar in their progression.


- Capture low level criminals in various settings.
- Capture mid level criminals at a hide out.
- Capture high level criminals at a base.
- And finally some kind of final HQ assault.


Maybe you can give certain factions a different means of progression, such as destroying/capturing a certain number of a faction's key facilities instead of personnel (making each one a little different than the last, perhaps increasing the level of defenses with each facility destroyed for a start, this may not be feasible but it's just thought in case it is) in order to advance to the next tier of progression with that faction.

Also, throughout the time leading up to the mass arrival of the aliens I was only able to reach and complete the final missions for: EXALT, Red Dawn and the Church of Dagon. The aliens arrived soon after or a little before me finishing off those missions. After the aliens arrived it was a chore to complete the Black Lotus missions such that I never finished off their faction (this partly ties in with having to capture certain enemy types to progress, which was getting a little old at this point) and I wished there was a feature that disabled their missions (or any leftover starting enemy factions for that matter) after the alien arrival.

Lastly, I stopped playing the mod a few months into the large scale alien invasion because the structure of the progression was the same as the early game: capture high ranking aliens, interrogate, etc., etc. Do you have plans for changing up the progression or mission types in the later stages of the game?

And that about does it for feedback; again your mod is fantastic and it's the best one on the site in my opinion. Hope you're doing well and I look forward to the 1.0 version of your mod. (https://orig00.deviantart.net/0f56/f/2010/024/2/5/_goodjob__revamp_by_synfull.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 18, 2018, 01:44:39 pm
For now I have no plans regarding early game. I've spent so much time on it already, and I want to flesh out late game first. After it's done I will develop earlier stages.
But I'm definitely accepting ideas.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Martin on March 19, 2018, 04:07:33 pm
Red Dawn has alternative progression. You can skip capturing the sailor and go straight for the boss guy in the durathread manufacturing mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Slaughter on March 20, 2018, 09:29:57 am
Stopped playing this since I changed comps after my old LP got killed, possibly by freaking Pizzagate.

Revving my downloaders and getting my image host.

Rev up the car and get me my guns, I'm going back in.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Dakkon on March 21, 2018, 12:15:10 am
Stopped playing this since I changed comps after my old LP got killed, possibly by freaking Pizzagate.

Your laptop killed over because of Pizzagate? A conspiracy about pedophilia and worse things being perpetrated by high ranking D.C. politicians?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2018, 10:50:31 pm
Version 0.8.7 has been released!

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- Removed stats from weapon and armor descriptions, now they are available under "INFO" button.
- New missions: Heavy Cruiser, Fleet Supply Cruiser (both by Helrica).
- New races: Carcharodon, Lobsterman (co-op with Helrica).
- New craft: CF-105 Arrow.
- New Alien Base mapblocks.
- New city mapblock (by Amuys).
- Improved UFOs accuracy.
- Made a proper natural weapon for Lobstermen.
- Promotion III now can be reached with several alternative access paths.
- Madmen are faster.
- Fixed Feral Carcharodon Autopsy entry in the Ufopaedia.
- Fixed a crash on researching Feral Lobsterman corpse.
- Fixed pockets of abyss in the Reptoid lands which swallowed your agents forever (no, this part was not planned).
- Fixed Synthsuit display in Ufopaedia.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: niculinux on March 21, 2018, 10:59:49 pm
Version 0.8.7 has been released!
Halleluja! Only i'd like fo see - hopefully in the next version - some more "initial missions", less crop circles and cattle mutilation and some more new/original ones  8)

Also, 2-stages missions TFTD-alike are planned in the future?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2018, 11:17:31 pm
Halleluja! Only i'd like fo see - hopefully in the next version - some more "initial missions", less crop circles and cattle mutilation and some more new/original ones  8)

Sorry, developing late game now. Maybe later.

Also, 2-stages missions TFTD-alike are planned in the future?

Well, there are some already...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Slaughter on March 22, 2018, 05:30:17 am
Hey, glad to see new version!

No old save-game issues?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 22, 2018, 11:40:40 am
Hey, glad to see new version!

No old save-game issues?

Old saves should be fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: HT on March 22, 2018, 01:01:13 pm

Yay, a new update! No zombies though, so no game yet. Besides, Ghost of a Tale is quite cool to play.

They guilt you into surrendering.

I was making jokes about Indiana Jones and whips, as well as the mediocre "The Mummy" movies. Not sure what you're referring to, if anything.

Yeah, but it's still pretty close: zombie -> fat zombie -> infector -> tomb guard/strix -> vampires (multiple types) -> mummy. Ghouls are a side branch, and zombie troopers and megazombies are artificially made.

(https://i.imgur.com/GfQUsg7.jpg)

Yeah, that's an improvement. I can already see Piratez stealing this as soon as the units are finished though.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: mumble on March 23, 2018, 01:11:46 am
Very happy to hear the requirements for promotion 3 are diversified a little. I'll check this out when I get home.

Edit: probably won't get to try till tonight.

You know, I'd like to see missions requiring more use of non lethal means, perhaps indoctrinated civilians in cults (regular joes who are only very low level like Dagon supporters) which you lose points for killing despite being hostile.

Alternatively, what about a "base defense" mission which is actually a city / town, with mass mind control attacks using mind control nodes? Require taking people down non fatally like piratez raids, and destroying the mind control hub in the city (an immobile unit) to capture, possibly with a very heavy moral loss at "killing" the hub, so everyone surrenders on its death.

And if these things are implemented, maybe flash bangs could be created, a grenade that lowers tus and other stats, with a multiplication of front armor "damage" too, so flash bangs on sides or back aren't effective, while in front drastically lowers energy, reactions, aim, and inflicts camo hit on vision.

... Second part I'm unsure if its pheasable, but first part would be interesting, especially if the town acted as a base, further indoctrinating outsiders and reducing points till taken down. Would be great for variety, and training non lethal take downs
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: DoxaLogos (JG) on March 23, 2018, 03:58:06 pm
Very happy to hear the requirements for promotion 3 are diversified a little. I'll check this out when I get home.

Edit: probably won't get to try till tonight.

You know, I'd like to see missions requiring more use of non lethal means, perhaps indoctrinated civilians in cults (regular joes who are only very low level like Dagon supporters) which you lose points for killing despite being hostile.

Alternatively, what about a "base defense" mission which is actually a city / town, with mass mind control attacks using mind control nodes? Require taking people down non fatally like piratez raids, and destroying the mind control hub in the city (an immobile unit) to capture, possibly with a very heavy moral loss at "killing" the hub, so everyone surrenders on its death.


This sounds really fun and tough!  I like the idea.  Flashbangs  comeback would be nice too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Slaughter on March 23, 2018, 04:06:27 pm
Now that I think about it, I'm surprised we don't have Flashbangs in The X-COM Files. They're such a nifty tool for riot control.
Xenonauts used Flashbangs as anti-reaction grenade. I think that in X-COM they would work better as lessening accuracy stats and general unit vision for a round or so, but they don't stack. Or take a cue from Xenonauts and have them reduce the reaction stats for a round, but again, no stacking penalties (you can't blind someone already blinded lol).

I think flashbangs should't work on aliens, because of their different (alien) photoreceptors. Rather, an Flashbangs-lvl2 should be made for them after enough autopsies. They also should't work on robots (superior machine cameras laugh at puny meatbags) and maybe zombies (because zombies use their sense of smell more).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Spess Mahren on March 23, 2018, 04:46:25 pm
I'm updating my save to 0.8.7 from 0.8.6 and I just wanted to double check what I need to do.
I added
- region: REGION_CARCHARODON_USO_HEAVY_CRUISER
  missions: ~
- region: REGION_LOBSTERMAN_USO_FLEET_CRUISER
  missions: ~
and I believe if I'm not mistaken that is all I need to do.           
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Slaughter on March 24, 2018, 01:32:16 am
Your laptop killed over because of Pizzagate? A conspiracy about pedophilia and worse things being perpetrated by high ranking D.C. politicians?

Ahahahahaha no, bad phrasing I guess. Althrough I would't past them. Actually it was the imagehost of my LP. One day it simply went down, never to return. Either the devs abandoned it or They took it down because it hosted a lot of Pizzagate content and evidence. I have no idea, just heard a lot of rumours.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Slaughter on March 24, 2018, 03:22:36 am
I'm updating my save to 0.8.7 from 0.8.6 and I just wanted to double check what I need to do.
I added
- region: REGION_CARCHARODON_USO_HEAVY_CRUISER
  missions: ~
- region: REGION_LOBSTERMAN_USO_FLEET_CRUISER
  missions: ~
and I believe if I'm not mistaken that is all I need to do.           

I'm curious about this, too. There's zero instruction about save updating.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: Dakkon on March 24, 2018, 06:10:11 am
Ahahahahaha no, bad phrasing I guess. Althrough I would't past them. Actually it was the imagehost of my LP. One day it simply went down, never to return. Either the devs abandoned it or They took it down because it hosted a lot of Pizzagate content and evidence. I have no idea, just heard a lot of rumours.

Wow, that's crazy. Although, I suppose it's not terribly unpredictable considering this freaking crazy world.

Also. "Ahhh, They; I know They well. Damn They, damn They to hell!" (https://orig00.deviantart.net/c774/f/2010/072/9/8/shake_photo_realistic_fist_by_alchemlst.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: mumble on March 25, 2018, 05:56:02 am
honestly I think flash bangs would work on select aliens that AREN'T augmented : sectoids, snakemen, buff smurfs (I always forget their names) and probably waspites and chrysalis, while mutons, chronites, and etherals (they are organic, but surely heavy psi power must help) would be immune, or at least slightly weakened.

Actually, it would be interesting to flashbang zombies.... see if they wander a bit aimlessly while blind

Come to think of it, shouldn't zombies have a reduced vision range compared to other units, decay and cateract like conditions at all? maybe less so for higher ups (infectors, troopers and such) but the common zombie shouldn't have great eye sight, and poor night vision right? Zombies aren't exactly known for having keen vision. Id think all but the tomb guards and above would have depleted vision, and this would make nastier missions on superhuman a little more fair.

Also, I had an interesting idea for an item : what about binoculars, which half your vision cone width from 90 degrees to 45 degrees, but as you use them, boosts your vision range to max? Would be interesting, especially if cults could use them for snipers / spotters....and we could do the same =)

By the way, did you change AI so it does suppression fire into smoke if it cannot see a target? red dawn is crazy trigger happy when im in smoke, to the point smoke grenades feel nerfed into the ground. They are less accurate mind you, but climbing out of the ship is a NIGHTMARE it seems, the usual smoke and proceed tactic just isn't enough to avoid damage...maybe decrease the accuracy further,, and decrease the likelyhood? or am I just forced to deploy riot shield guys as bait, or something?...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: wolfreal on March 25, 2018, 08:57:12 pm
Come to think of it, shouldn't zombies have a reduced vision range compared to other units, decay and cateract like conditions at all? maybe less so for higher ups (infectors, troopers and such) but the common zombie shouldn't have great eye sight, and poor night vision right? Zombies aren't exactly known for having keen vision. Id think all but the tomb guards and above would have depleted vision, and this would make nastier missions on superhuman a little more fair.

Also, I had an interesting idea for an item : what about binoculars, which half your vision cone width from 90 degrees to 45 degrees, but as you use them, boosts your vision range to max? Would be interesting, especially if cults could use them for snipers / spotters....and we could do the same =)

By the way, did you change AI so it does suppression fire into smoke if it cannot see a target? red dawn is crazy trigger happy when im in smoke, to the point smoke grenades feel nerfed into the ground. They are less accurate mind you, but climbing out of the ship is a NIGHTMARE it seems, the usual smoke and proceed tactic just isn't enough to avoid damage...maybe decrease the accuracy further,, and decrease the likelyhood? or am I just forced to deploy riot shield guys as bait, or something?...

Zombies (on this lore) utilize smell as a primary sensing.

Binoculars sounds interesting.

I don't know if the AI has changed, but that behavior sounds cool. Maybe not on the first turn. But some enemies should have that tactic, shoot blind to the smoke. It makes things interesting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: mumble on March 25, 2018, 10:41:29 pm
My problem is the blind fire makes escaping the vehicle and getting to cover a nasty endevor, theres no real cover with the ships bottom, you are surrounded, and smoke doesn't seem to stop firing at all. And with people spread out, the bullets will still hit someone even if its not an intended target. At very least, the firing should be far more randomized, as I think it still targets the person, but just has horrible accuracy.

Also, I think it should be reserved for certain troops, similar to snipers and spotters, make a few "suppression" classes or whatever.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Slaughter on March 25, 2018, 11:06:20 pm
So, how do I port my save to new version?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: HT on March 26, 2018, 12:25:20 am
Unless otherwise specified, you don't have to do anything special: Just copy-paste the files and that's it. The save games are located in a separate directory and thus untouched (although it's unwise to update and then load a battlescape save).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 26, 2018, 11:39:56 am
Now that I think about it, I'm surprised we don't have Flashbangs in The X-COM Files. They're such a nifty tool for riot control.
Xenonauts used Flashbangs as anti-reaction grenade. I think that in X-COM they would work better as lessening accuracy stats and general unit vision for a round or so, but they don't stack. Or take a cue from Xenonauts and have them reduce the reaction stats for a round, but again, no stacking penalties (you can't blind someone already blinded lol).

I think flashbangs should't work on aliens, because of their different (alien) photoreceptors. Rather, an Flashbangs-lvl2 should be made for them after enough autopsies. They also should't work on robots (superior machine cameras laugh at puny meatbags) and maybe zombies (because zombies use their sense of smell more).

Write all the code necessary for this, submit it to Meridian for a review, and if it's accepted, we're fine. :D

I'm curious about this, too. There's zero instruction about save updating.

There is no need to alter the save in any way. Where did you people get this idea from? And why specifically regions???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.7 alpha: Into the Depths
Post by: Spess Mahren on March 26, 2018, 10:08:25 pm
I got the idea of needing to update the save from the thread in the x-piratez subforum dealing with upgrading saves.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.6 alpha: Night of The Lobsters
Post by: khade on March 27, 2018, 01:05:55 am
I was making jokes about Indiana Jones and whips, as well as the mediocre "The Mummy" movies. Not sure what you're referring to, if anything.

Daddy pulls out his belt, mummy just guilts you into doing what she wants.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 07, 2018, 06:53:12 pm
Version 0.8.8 is out!

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- New missions: Cruise Liner Raid, Mummy Abode, Ancient Mummy Abode.
- New unit: Mummy Matriarch.
- New Dossier: David Vincent (co-op with Human Ktulu).
- New Skorpion sprites (by The Funktasm).
- New Thrasher handob (by Dioxine).
- Fixed Night of the Lobsters unit composition.
- Fixed shield regeneration on terror mission (by Otto Hartenstein).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Human Ktulu on April 07, 2018, 09:18:51 pm
That's it, David Vincent is now in The X-Com Files lore  8)


Do you remember ? 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 07, 2018, 09:47:21 pm
Nope, I'm probably not old enough for that one.  :)

Yay, a new update! The end of the zombie arc is closer than ever! Also, holy cow these Mummies, they're on par with Ethereals. By the way, is it a coincidence that one of their main attacks is called Cero, like that energy beam from the Bleach manga?

By the way, how exactly does Psionic Strength influence P. Skill and viceversa?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 08, 2018, 01:19:58 pm
Yay, a new update! The end of the zombie arc is closer than ever! Also, holy cow these Mummies, they're on par with Ethereals. By the way, is it a coincidence that one of their main attacks is called Cero, like that energy beam from the Bleach manga?

Not a coincidence. :)
But it was done first in Piratez, which uses a similar sprite for a late game armour type for your girls. It's called Destructor, but the internal name is STR_ARRANCAR. ;)

By the way, how exactly does Psionic Strength influence P. Skill and viceversa?

It's explained here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Psionics#Psionic_Formulas
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 08, 2018, 08:50:27 pm
Not a coincidence. :)
But it was done first in Piratez, which uses a similar sprite for a late game armour type for your girls. It's called Destructor, but the internal name is STR_ARRANCAR. ;)

*Checks outfit, notices the hole*
Now I realize why it seemed familiar. *headdesk* How nerdy you guys are. Then again, there are genuine Magical Girls (if the Madoka grimderp variety sadly) and more.

X-Files is way more serious, but I'm convinced said magical girls or something equally silly will be eventually implemented as an easter-egg, if it hasn't been done so already.

By the way: I can use Dart Weaponry in Beach missions. Is that intended? I mean, they vaguely look like toy guys, but perhaps that's an oversight. They're also available for League apprehension, even though the Rifle is not a concealable weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 08, 2018, 09:39:32 pm
*Checks outfit, notices the hole*
Now I realize why it seemed familiar. *headdesk* How nerdy you guys are. Then again, there are genuine Magical Girls (if the Madoka grimderp variety sadly) and more.

Well, I suppose it was done for Homusexual reasons. :P

X-Files is way more serious, but I'm convinced said magical girls or something equally silly will be eventually implemented as an easter-egg, if it hasn't been done so already.

Not yet, but once I have all the main content in, anything can happen...
Particularly a Ghostbusters arc, which could be related.

By the way: I can use Dart Weaponry in Beach missions. Is that intended? I mean, they vaguely look like toy guys, but perhaps that's an oversight. They're also available for League apprehension, even though the Rifle is not a concealable weapon.

Well, it can pass for one of those underwater guns used for fishing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 10, 2018, 01:30:25 pm
It's great that the mod is constantly updated. And it is planned to develop the Apocalypse Cult so that you can fight with demons (DooM).
There is also a proposal to add a mission based on the film "The Thing". I think he will fit well in the concept The X-Com Files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 10, 2018, 01:56:29 pm
Yes, the Apocalypse arc is planned to be expanded.
And I totally should go back to The Thing!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 10, 2018, 02:50:39 pm
A bit disappointing that the Cult of the Apocalypse is "just" another lolCHAOS! cult, I expected something else. On the plus side, copy-pasting the Dark Ones as demons here should be easy, except for the soldier ones, which would stand out a little.  :)

As for the Thing, isn't that somewhat covered by Dimension X stuff? I mean, the engine cannot properly convey constantly transforming enemies like The Thing would be about.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 10, 2018, 04:35:59 pm
I hope you will be positively surprised with the Apocalypse arc. ;)
And yes, the "thing" will be
the Abomination from Dimension X
.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 10, 2018, 04:43:10 pm
Great news! There is a game "Splatterhouse". There are interesting sprites of monsters that you can use for the theme "The Thing".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 10, 2018, 05:29:35 pm
Sadly these sprites are too obviously non-isometric. I've done many experiments to be sure...
But this unit has been in the game for ages, so no need for new sprites for it. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: MFive on April 11, 2018, 02:43:05 am
I want Brendan Fraser to be a special character mummy ...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 12, 2018, 08:21:37 am
The question is: what part of the code needs to be changed so that when investigating the destruction of the faction, they do not disappear completely, but appear very rarely? And it is better that there should be a return to the initial mission of the faction such as the detention of violators.
Another question: how can you turn off the signing of the pact by the government? More truly, that the aliens conducted such missions, but the final result was not available. As a fine, X-com would receive a large negative rating.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 12, 2018, 09:41:23 am
Adding missions happening after faction destruction (with much lower frequency) is easy. All you need to do is edit MissionScripts_XCOMFILES.rul, make a copy of the relevant mission script and change values: research triggers and execution odds. I would post an example, but I'm on a phone at the moment.

Regaining countries is not possible without editing game code, and no coder ever thought it would be a good idea. So it won't happen, unless you program it and maintain it yourself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 12, 2018, 10:59:10 am
I understand that the restoration of governments is impossible. I meant something else: how to forbid aliens infiltration missions. I understand it needs to be changed in a file alienMissions_XCOMFILES?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 12, 2018, 11:25:45 am
Yes, you can forbid the game from spawning new infiltration missions after a certain research.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 15, 2018, 11:32:29 am
Random question: Can you use an "higher tier" lab to research stuff from lower levels?

IE: I have built an Improved Lab, can it be used to research stuff that would require "just" a Standard Lab, or should I built the two? Is it feasible or advisable to create a base with all three types of Labs? It seems it would be too costly IMO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 15, 2018, 04:44:40 pm
Random question: Can you use an "higher tier" lab to research stuff from lower levels?

IE: I have built an Improved Lab, can it be used to research stuff that would require "just" a Standard Lab, or should I built the two? Is it feasible or advisable to create a base with all three types of Labs? It seems it would be too costly IMO.

Generally speaking, you need all types of labs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 16, 2018, 02:16:19 pm
This question: I created a plug-in mod with a new armor. I want to prohibit its use in some X-file missions. Can I make changes in my fashion or will it conflict with the main game? I just do not want to constantly change the X-files, because they are updated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 16, 2018, 03:28:14 pm
I have a question/petition:

Can you make the Laser Cannon be considered a "Cannon" type weapon instead of a "Beam" type,  @Solarius Scorch ? I understand why you believed the need that the Plasma Beam needed its own category and limited the number of craft capable of using it, but the "Laser Cannon" doesn't sound as hi-tech as the former, so it would make sense to make it capable of being used by Interceptors and the like. At worst, only by Improved Interceptors and such.
It's also a pure human tech rather than reverse-engineered alien weaponry, for not to mention the description mentions its "cannon-like" features.

Otherwise, you research a weapon that then you cannot use for a long while, seeing how much time and effort it takes to unlock Promotion 3 and then research+produce crafts capable of using Beams.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 16, 2018, 07:32:04 pm
This question: I created a plug-in mod with a new armor. I want to prohibit its use in some X-file missions. Can I make changes in my fashion or will it conflict with the main game? I just do not want to constantly change the X-files, because they are updated.

You need to edit startingConditions_XCOMFILES.rul.
What exactly do you want to achieve?

I have a question/petition:

Can you make the Laser Cannon be considered a "Cannon" type weapon instead of a "Beam" type,  @Solarius Scorch ?

No, because it's literally the beamest beam that's ever beamed in X-Com. :)

I understand why you believed the need that the Plasma Beam needed its own category and limited the number of craft capable of using it, but the "Laser Cannon" doesn't sound as hi-tech as the former, so it would make sense to make it capable of being used by Interceptors and the like. At worst, only by Improved Interceptors and such.
It's also a pure human tech rather than reverse-engineered alien weaponry, for not to mention the description mentions its "cannon-like" features.

Plane construction must be completely different for beam weapons... Like having to accommodate a heavy duty reactor. It's pretty much unrealistic to mount it on an Interceptor.

Otherwise, you research a weapon that then you cannot use for a long while, seeing how much time and effort it takes to unlock Promotion 3 and then research+produce crafts capable of using Beams.

Yeah, yeah, I know air combat is still in need of balancing... I'll get there, slowly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 17, 2018, 09:19:37 am
It seems I understood how to change the file startingConditions_XCOMFILES. But I did not understand how to make a certain type of soldier die on an unsuitable mission for him (like dogs under water). How can I do that?
A big request, add the hand lantern the ability to turn on and off (as in illuminators). Very uncomfortable when it is constantly on.
Proposal for underwater missions: it may not be possible to give X-com underwater transport by default, but to make it bought. For missions without transport, just use the appearance points for example for 4 soldiers. Still, the content of underwater vehicles must be serviced and maintained for money.
Still I suggest to tanks instead of useless distance meter to put the device of self-destruction.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: ohartenstein23 on April 17, 2018, 01:51:06 pm
To make the dogs 'drown' underwater, the startingConditions ruleset swaps them into an armor that has negetative health regeneration. It's a dirty trick, but it works.

You can set any illumination item to turn on and off by using priming/unpriming actions, either ayt the moment of priming or after throwing, like the electroflare.

Putting self-destruct on the tanks is impossible except by a hack-y 'weapon'. Also, the rangefinder just fills a slot that would otherwise be blank, so no reason to replace it with something 'useful'.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 17, 2018, 03:27:32 pm
Good idea with the armor, thank you.
About the lights: I realized what to do, but I would like it to be in the X-files. :)
About self-destruction: it is very possible, you can make weapons with a range of 0 and apply it to the tank.  :oBUUUM! It's just a proposal, maybe there will be something more interesting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 17, 2018, 10:40:16 pm
Query: Is the "Communion of Apocalypse" meant to have sooo many enemies? There are like literally 70+ guys and gals running around armed to the teeth. Worse, most have not second-hand weapons, but quite modern stuff from the UAC somehow, including multi-shot rocket launchers.

Right now I'm at the point I stopped my previous play-through, as in I took care of the starting cults, and now I'm wrestling against the Syndicate, Osiron and the occasional Hybrid, I think I'll wait until the next version is up though before continuing.

Speaking of: IS "UAC Outsourcing" bugged, or unfinished? After researching this, nothing happens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2018, 08:37:15 pm
Query: Is the "Communion of Apocalypse" meant to have sooo many enemies? There are like literally 70+ guys and gals running around armed to the teeth. Worse, most have not second-hand weapons, but quite modern stuff from the UAC somehow, including multi-shot rocket launchers.

Well, yeah... Depends on difficulty though.
These enemies are squishy, there must be many of them to stand up to you at this point!

Right now I'm at the point I stopped my previous play-through, as in I took care of the starting cults, and now I'm wrestling against the Syndicate, Osiron and the occasional Hybrid, I think I'll wait until the next version is up though before continuing.

Yeah, if you're willing to wait a few days.

Speaking of: IS "UAC Outsourcing" bugged, or unfinished? After researching this, nothing happens.

It gives you the access to buying certain stuff, but it must be researched separately.
(I should add some instant reward though.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: HT on April 18, 2018, 09:33:05 pm
Well, yeah... Depends on difficulty though.
These enemies are squishy, there must be many of them to stand up to you at this point!

I suppose, but still, how come most use UAC weaponry instead of lower-tech guns?
And yeah, they're squishy and easy to kill if you have explosives, but there are so many I thought it was a bug at first.

Yeah, if you're willing to wait a few days.

Lol, that's faster than I had thought. Will the new update be mostly bug-fixes, or will it include new content?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: mumble on April 18, 2018, 11:53:13 pm
I'm a little worried games starting anywhere else but Europe, Asia, Africa, or Russia are not exactly balanced. Starting in America, too many missions are not possible to reach quickly enough, or with enough people to attack properly, before they vanish.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 19, 2018, 08:54:38 pm
I suppose, but still, how come most use UAC weaponry instead of lower-tech guns?

Who knows? :)

Lol, that's faster than I had thought. Will the new update be mostly bug-fixes, or will it include new content?

Some new content, yes. Nothing groundbreaking, but there will be like three new missions. I'll try to do this over the weekend.

I'm a little worried games starting anywhere else but Europe, Asia, Africa, or Russia are not exactly balanced. Starting in America, too many missions are not possible to reach quickly enough, or with enough people to attack properly, before they vanish.

I don't think it's an issue at all. Most missions take really long to disappear, even if you are on the other side of the planet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: Niewiem on April 20, 2018, 08:51:56 am
Yeah my first base was in Europe but had a lot of missions both in america and australia where I needed really long time to get.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: khade on April 20, 2018, 09:43:14 pm
People have talked about having multiple squads just driving around until something happens, though that's not always practical.  I think they still get gym benefit unless they're wounded, even if they're in a car on the other side of the world.  I expect that might be fixed if it bothers people.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: mumble on April 21, 2018, 05:48:20 am
Biggest issue is humvees don't cut it for harder missions. Being in poland is prime xcom real estate, as is china, or elsewhere, but starting in America leaves too many missions unable to be reached by large squads. I feel if central American cult of the apocalypse was intigrated, it would solve this issue.

I suppose for now, the United States are just not viable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 21, 2018, 10:29:31 pm
Version 0.8.9 is released.

- New missions: Mummy Temple Grounds, Hybrid Control Center Assault.
- New Mummy Abode mapblocks.
- New handob for the Tactical Sniper Rifle.
- Standard bows and crossbows no longer work in space.
- Fixed CF-105 Arrow production.
- Fixed Osprey not requiring pilots.
- Fixed buying Chaingun ammo.
- Fixed random crashes on slander missions.
- Fixed certain units not shooting.
- Fixed the Ancient Mummy Abode mission not spawning.
- Fixed some palette issues.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.8 alpha: The Mummy Returns
Post by: MFive on April 21, 2018, 10:37:53 pm
On the topic of base locations, I always try and choose a city to build it on, so I get a better idea of where the base is. Because I live there, I start with one in Detroit, and my secondary base is typically in Ankara due to radar coverage. I run squads out of both, my remaining six bases turn into Science/Storage bases, and Manufacturing/Storage bases, currently a two science and four manufacturing. Both Primary and Secondary bases have three hangers, each specialist base have two.

Edit: A full release draws ever closer ...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: BlackStaff on April 21, 2018, 10:45:50 pm
Version 0.8.9 is released.
Link no work ! Sorry !

[Edit]
Now link work fine ! Thanks !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Niewiem on April 22, 2018, 01:50:46 pm
Is it safe to update game version or would updating require starting new game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: HT on April 22, 2018, 01:52:18 pm
Unless specified otherwise, you can update your game mid-campaign. I advise not loading a battlescape save though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: HT on April 23, 2018, 04:12:32 pm
How exactly does the "reduced one-handed penalty" mechanic work? I ask because I'm not completely sure how the numbers from the "stats for nerds" section mean to say for a two-handed weapon that can work in one hand (ie: CAWS). Does for example a 80% mean that the accuracy for shooting is only reduce by 20%?

In the ufopaedia it doesn't mention the specific numbers as well, unlike Piratez, making this a bit more confusing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Martin on April 23, 2018, 04:16:14 pm
I always build first base in somewhere in south Ukraine, it has the optimal early coverage in both this mod and Piratez.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 29, 2018, 11:37:07 am
Question: In the description of the study on the transfer of alloy technology for the corporation MAGMA it is written that this reduces the rating by 500 points. Is this really so? If so, which file is responsible for this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 29, 2018, 04:58:41 pm
Question: In the description of the study on the transfer of alloy technology for the corporation MAGMA it is written that this reduces the rating by 500 points. Is this really so? If so, which file is responsible for this?

Nooooooo it's only in the description because a cat walked across my keyboard. Srsly wat?

Which file? Why do you want to know?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: BlackStaff on April 30, 2018, 12:58:29 am
Which file?
STR_SHARE_ALLOY_AMMO_TECH_UFOPEDIA in en-US.yml

Confirmed in research_XCOMFILES.rul
- name: STR_SHARE_ALLOY_AMMO_TECH

But this sharing seems obligatory to have new special missions...

A big cat with big legs!  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Vangrimar1 on April 30, 2018, 03:11:16 am
Very bad, I thought you could influence the ranking through research. :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: firsttefl1 on April 30, 2018, 10:06:07 am
Very bad, I thought you could influence the ranking through research. :(

And how exactly is the further game influenced by this 500-point drop in reputation? Do you get 500 points less of the monthly rating just once? Or is it a permanent damage to the monthly rating?
To put it simply - is disclosing alien alloy technology to the MAGMA corporation worth it in the long run?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: HT on April 30, 2018, 11:44:00 am
And how exactly is the further game influenced by this 500-point drop in reputation? Do you get 500 points less of the monthly rating just once? Or is it a permanent damage to the monthly rating?
To put it simply - is disclosing alien alloy technology to the MAGMA corporation worth it in the long run?

You get a penalty of -500 once that month and specific missions spawn up later on (such as people trying to slander XCOM for what you did). In exchange, future MAGMA weapons you unlock will be able to be bought with Alien Alloy Ammo from the get go, something that is quite useful. I'm not sure if you have to do this to unlock Pulse weaponry later on, but if you have to, then it's totally worth it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 30, 2018, 01:03:18 pm
And how exactly is the further game influenced by this 500-point drop in reputation? Do you get 500 points less of the monthly rating just once? Or is it a permanent damage to the monthly rating?

You only get a -500 once, at the end of the month.
There are, however, certain other permanent effects... But is it worth it? In my opinion yes (like Human Traitor said), but I purposefully left you with a choice. After all it's a conspiracy game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: DoxaLogos (JG) on April 30, 2018, 06:54:45 pm
To put it simply - is disclosing alien alloy technology to the MAGMA corporation worth it in the long run?

Personally, I'd say it's worth it, but I haven't finished a playthrough yet.   Solarius would know better of course :)  It's super easy to make up for a 500 pt hit. 
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 10, 2018, 04:05:45 pm
Returning to this great mod after some months of absence. Some gripes/inconsistencies i noticed on my new playthrough:

The item restrictions for the "special missions" (resort, beach, etc) should be made clear beforehand, preferably in the details-section in the info panel. I just found myself ankle-deep in the snow, with only some med-kits and flashlights against enimies armed with pistols and SMGs. It's also interesting how you can tazers to the beach,but not to the ski resort - any particular reason for this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: ohartenstein23 on May 10, 2018, 04:30:04 pm
You can see exactly what weapons you can bring using the filters on the craft inventory screen - there are item categories defined for each type of infiltration/special mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 10, 2018, 05:15:13 pm
Yes, exactly.

As for the taser, I guess it should be available on ski missions too... I will check, may be a bug.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 10, 2018, 11:59:13 pm
Oh, thanks for the heads-up. I didn't know that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Cristao on May 12, 2018, 12:27:19 pm
How does one use electro flares - I really liked using them to light locations I had been in during dark or night missions but cant seem to figure it out in Xcom Files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 12, 2018, 12:46:43 pm
How does one use electro flares - I really liked using them to light locations I had been in during dark or night missions but cant seem to figure it out in Xcom Files.


Grab... Prime... Throw. Like any other grenade.
What is the big mystery? O_o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Cristao on May 12, 2018, 03:17:02 pm
Thanks. For some reason that didnt work in an earlier mission. Doing Zombie Hive presently.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Moon_Dew on May 14, 2018, 08:35:16 am
Any good advice for early, mid, and late-game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: khade on May 14, 2018, 10:56:47 am
Don't die?   ;D


Unfortunately, I'm still pretty early in the game.

My advice is to always have more ammunition than you thing you need, specifically for zombies, having to finish them with knives sucks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 15, 2018, 08:27:59 pm
Any good advice for early, mid, and late-game?

Read the Bootypedia. And read the readme, it contains a (very short) entry with starting advice. :)

My advice is to always have more ammunition than you thing you need, specifically for zombies, having to finish them with knives sucks.

Definitely good advice. I usually pack at the very least 25 bullets per pistol, more for smaller ones (with bigger clips).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 15, 2018, 09:47:47 pm
Read the Bootypedia. And read the readme, it contains a (very short) entry with starting advice. :)
Bootypedia? AM i missing out on something?  ::)

BTW, do you have any plans on including something akin to the arctic biomes in the Area 51 mod, especially the underground temple?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: khade on May 16, 2018, 12:01:15 am
Solarius has spent too much time with the Piratez mod, it seems, you'll want to look at the UFOpedia, though it's basically the same thing, same shortcuts and everything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2018, 03:18:39 pm
Yes, I usually respond to this question in relation to Piratez, sorry. :)

 
BTW, do you have any plans on including something akin to the arctic biomes in the Area 51 mod, especially the underground temple?

What exactly do you mean? Terrains? Missions? Enemies?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 16, 2018, 04:41:22 pm
Yes, I usually respond to this question in relation to Piratez, sorry. :)

 
What exactly do you mean? Terrains? Missions? Enemies?
Sorry, i should have clarified this better - i meant a mission akin to the one wiht the ice-buried temple. Some kind of ancient underground/sunken structure where you have to recover (or disable) some piece of forgotten technology. Mostly the terrain though - i really dig those sunken/underground temples.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2018, 05:50:28 pm
Sorry, i should have clarified this better - i meant a mission akin to the one wiht the ice-buried temple. Some kind of ancient underground/sunken structure where you have to recover (or disable) some piece of forgotten technology. Mostly the terrain though - i really dig those sunken/underground temples.

There are already several such missions. If you want something different, you must be more specific.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 16, 2018, 07:28:33 pm
There are underground missions and the Shogg ones, but (unless i'm mistaken) none with the a buried temple. I don't want to draw this out unecessarily, but i would love to the see is the PYRAMIDICE map adapted for X-Com Files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: BlackStaff on May 16, 2018, 08:04:27 pm
For fun...

One thing I find very annoying is the enemies who get up the next lap despite the bludgeoning.
Do you ever intend to add the "Tranquilizer" object?  :-[   ;)

Tranquilizer Mod by Civilian (Oct. 2014)

Translated by https://www.deepl.com/translator
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2018, 08:54:04 pm
For fun...

One thing I find very annoying is the enemies who get up the next lap despite the bludgeoning.
Do you ever intend to add the "Tranquilizer" object?  :-[   ;)

Tranquilizer Mod by Civilian (Oct. 2014)

There are many stunning tools... And with the next version we'll also have unarmed attacks :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 17, 2018, 11:33:30 pm
BTW, the description for the Ion Blaster states that the weapon emits "erratic streams of hot plasma", while the weapon itself does laser damage. Do you have any plans of switching the damage type to plasma, making the Ion Blaster an early, experimental plasma weapon?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2018, 12:05:39 am
BTW, the description for the Ion Blaster states that the weapon emits "erratic streams of hot plasma", while the weapon itself does laser damage. Do you have any plans of switching the damage type to plasma, making the Ion Blaster an early, experimental plasma weapon?

Good point. I will think about this. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on May 18, 2018, 04:06:22 pm
Small question regarding the medi-gas grenade: Is it actually any more effective at stunning than the smoke grenade? Both do choke damage, but the medi grenade does 45 while the smoke grenade does 60
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: swivelchair on May 26, 2018, 01:07:56 am
Hey I really love this mod! I love the x files tv show and the x com games so this mod is like a dream come true. The only thing im confused about is that I think some things aren't showing up that should be. I have version 0.8.8 but I literally have never seen any of the shogg, t'leth or cyberweb stuff. Maybe Im just not far enough in yet but I thought i would have seen at least some of it by now, I have gotten all the way to 1999 with the alien base raids.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: LuigiWhatif on May 26, 2018, 02:33:25 am
To start seeing Cyberweb you need to research durathread and its production, then interrogate a Red Dawn Coordinator to unlock and research durathread origins.  T'leth needs you to interrogate the deep ones that appear on some Church of Dagon missions or on their own after you eliminate the church, and then do a few additional researches after that.  To go into Shogg, you need the artifacts that rarely appear on cave missions.  In my experience Cthonites were more common than Shogg natives, but they appeared eventually.

Does this help?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: swivelchair on May 26, 2018, 04:18:53 am
Yes very helpful! thank you. I had always avoided durathread stuff because the factory mission always wrecked me. And I didnt know you could interrogate deep ones, I assumed they were non intelligent. And I have never had a cave mission so there you go. XD Just missed alot of stuff just barely.
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: LuigiWhatif on May 26, 2018, 05:40:57 am
I believe the caves need you to research a live giant spider and a live shambler, if you haven't done so yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: swivelchair on May 27, 2018, 05:55:26 am
Okay great thank you! I had gotten a live spider but not a shambler. One more question sorry, what is needed to trigger promotion 2? I have gotten it before in previous play throughs but I always have trouble getting it again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 27, 2018, 09:36:32 am
Okay great thank you! I had gotten a live spider but not a shambler. One more question sorry, what is needed to trigger promotion 2? I have gotten it before in previous play throughs but I always have trouble getting it again.

You must collect all 4 extra staff members.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Dr.Crowley on May 27, 2018, 11:13:45 am
Woah, woah, how far you made it, Sol!
IRL issues (my old laptop was stolen, argh) forced me to stay out of most net recources for a while but I am glad to see XCF so close to 1.0. Hope I will have some time to glance at new version.
Last time I played XCF (six months ago, OMG) it was 0.7.5b - are those saves compatible with 0.8.9?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: swivelchair on May 27, 2018, 11:49:00 pm
Thanks man I appreciate it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 29, 2018, 12:50:45 am
Woah, woah, how far you made it, Sol!
IRL issues (my old laptop was stolen, argh) forced me to stay out of most net recources for a while but I am glad to see XCF so close to 1.0. Hope I will have some time to glance at new version.

Sorry about your laptop... But welcome back!

Last time I played XCF (six months ago, OMG) it was 0.7.5b - are those saves compatible with 0.8.9?

You'd have to check this thread, I really can't remember that far back... They should probably work, I think.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 29, 2018, 01:41:35 pm
As car as I know the ES translation (of any type) has only started, so unfortunately you can only use English or Russian for now.
As for the item order, yes, they are grouped by type on all lists, plus you can filter them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Fiskun1 on May 30, 2018, 04:35:02 pm
How can I change this hotkey:
MMB: Examine [enemy/item/armor]?
I do not have a middle mouse button! )

I also think that it would be a good idea to make the "run" button in the interface, instead of using Ctrl.
Thank you, I like this mod very much!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2018, 08:37:39 pm
How can I change this hotkey:
MMB: Examine [enemy/item/armor]?
I do not have a middle mouse button! )

I don't think it's possible.
Why on Earth don't you have the MMB? Playing on Android?

I also think that it would be a good idea to make the "run" button in the interface, instead of using Ctrl.

Meridian will perhaps hear you out if you suggest a good way to add it.

Thank you, I like this mod very much!

I'm happy to hear that! This always help me go back to modding. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 01, 2018, 10:07:08 am
I don't think it's possible.
Why on Earth don't you have the MMB? Playing on Android?

I'm playing on PC under Windows XP
I have a mouse with two buttons and a wheel.
Yesterday I found a mouse with four buttons, but I can not figure out how to do it: (MMB: Examine [enemy/item/armor]). The cursor just goes from one agent to another and everything ...

Meridian will perhaps hear you out if you suggest a good way to add it.

It's a pity.
But I liked the idea of "running", when less AP is spent on running, but the agent is more tired. This is logical.
What I do not like is the limitation of 10 moves in some missions.
I also can not always understand who is civil and who is the enemy, and for the murder of civilians they give penalty points for the results of the mission.  :(
I really like the X-Files series, so I like this mod too.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Meridian on June 01, 2018, 10:15:04 am
I'm playing on PC under Windows XP
I have a mouse with two buttons and a wheel.
Yesterday I found a mouse with four buttons, but I can not figure out how to do it: (MMB: Examine [enemy/item/armor]). The cursor just goes from one agent to another and everything ...

The wheel is the middle button, click the wheel.

It's a pity.

What is a pity?
I didn't say anything yet... waiting for proposals...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 01, 2018, 10:39:49 am
The wheel is the middle button, click the wheel.
Im stupid!  :D Thank you!

What is a pity?
I didn't say anything yet... waiting for proposals...
I understand that this is most likely just impossible to do, but I would like to have a "run" button in the tactical interface.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: BlackStaff on June 01, 2018, 11:06:30 am
What I do not like is the limitation of 10 moves in some missions.
8) This limitation "bothers" me too! I don't have time to discover the people or the terrain...  :-[
Fortunately it's easy to modify!  ;D   ;)   8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: krautbernd on June 01, 2018, 11:30:12 am
8) This limitation "bothers" me too! I don't have time to discover the people or the terrain...  :-[
Fortunately it's easy to modify!  ;D   ;)   8)
That's kind of strange - i personally never had a problem finishing the missions in less turns. Much less. Sure there's not something wrong with the way your're approaching the mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 01, 2018, 12:00:13 pm
That's kind of strange - i personally never had a problem finishing the missions in less turns. Much less. Sure there's not something wrong with the way your're approaching the mission?

Yeah, I can't remember ever failing this mission. Not even once. So not gonna make it any easier, sorry :)
I know I've said it so many times, but this mission will be updated when it's possible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: BlackStaff on June 01, 2018, 12:03:43 pm
That's kind of strange - i personally never had a problem finishing the missions in less turns. Much less. Sure there's not something wrong with the way your're approaching the mission?
I admit to advancing my soldiers with great caution (for all missions)!
My average for small missions is 15 turns!
The result is that after 100 missions I have on average 10 killed maximum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 01, 2018, 12:12:20 pm
In a mission, farmers are civilians, right?
I do not want to kill civilians, because big fines are charged for killing civilians.
And in 10 moves I do not always have time to stun them to take them alive.
Maybe I just do not understand something ...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Meridian on June 01, 2018, 12:12:40 pm
The result is that after 100 missions I have on average 10 killed maximum.

Booooooriiiing!  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 01, 2018, 12:18:30 pm
Booooooriiiing!  ;)

And as we see, not always practical. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: BlackStaff on June 01, 2018, 12:31:52 pm
Since 1994 I play the same way!  :P
I'm not bored since these games (UFO/TFTD/Apoc) are my favorite and I play them regularly (now with OXCE+ and XFiles versions) !  ;D
And it's not at my age that I'm gonna change tactics!  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Lohland on June 01, 2018, 06:36:06 pm
Limit of 10 icons of visible opponents. Can I change it somehow? Well, at least raise to 20
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: Meridian on June 01, 2018, 06:43:12 pm
No, 10 is max.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 01, 2018, 10:23:50 pm
Version 0.9 is released.

0.9:
- New agent type: Alien Hybrid.
- New mission: Asylum Apparitions.
- New units: Bug Eye Ghost, Spectral Entity, Minotaur.
- New weapons: Macro Flamer, Giant Axe.
- New Blood Plasma extractions (Chupacabras, Megascorpions, Giant Beetles, Shadowbats, Werewolves, Werecats).
- Added unarmed attacks to most units.
- Increased Rocket Launcher firepower.
- Explosives now have varied prime TU cost (generally faster).
- Buffed Floater armor.
- Snakemen now regenerate health.
- Zombies are no longer immune to Stun (but still highly resistant).
- Syndicate CEO Psi Attack now ignores half the armor.
- First level madman wears a light vest now.
- Taser can now be used on ski missions.
- Synthsuit has better Strength bonus.
- Scout Drone is faster.
- New options to rob some enemies off their armor.
- Medi-Kit production now requires Blood Plasma.
- Some new Ufopaedia articles.
- Increased Electro-Flare power to 15 (same as vanilla).
- Depowered Sectoid shields (by 33%; regeneration stays the same).
- Janissary is no longer susceptible to E-115 damage.
- Ooze can't bleed now.
- Scout Drone ammo arrives faster.
- Decreased Fighter's firing range.
- Somewhat decreased chances for UFOs to spawn as hunter killers.
- Fixed a hole in the Skymarshall.
- Fixed a conflict of terrains, causing multiple Meridians appearing on Croc Raid missions.
- Fixed a problem with one Slander mission.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Human Ktulu on June 02, 2018, 09:24:07 am
Nice X-Com Van !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: HT on June 02, 2018, 09:51:36 am
Version 0.9 is released.

0.9:
Lots of stuff

Yay, more guns and more fire! Too bad the zombie arc is still unfinished. Hopefully the update won't have any conflict with a started campaign, especially one where the alien invasion has finally begun in-game. Does the Medi-kit spend itself after being used in a mission now? Just to be sure. I already produced lots of them and don't have the need to produce more unless they're perishable after this update.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2018, 12:50:10 pm
No problem with updating mid-campaign, just don't do it in the middle of a battle a usual.

Also, I forgot to update the Russian translation. :/ Attaching it here, just replace the file under \mods\XComFiles\Language.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Lohland on June 02, 2018, 01:54:05 pm
No, 10 is max.
It's a pity!

Also, I forgot to update the Russian translation.
Thanks you for Russian translation!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Kammerer on June 02, 2018, 02:10:28 pm
Also, I forgot to update the Russian translation. :/ Attaching it here, just replace the file under \mods\XComFiles\Language.

You also forgot to upload some strings to Transifex, like Fire Extinguisher and Macro Flamer :). Attached is the translation with these strings and some minor fixes added.

Along with that, there's a missing string: STR_MICRO_FLAMER_CLIP
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2018, 04:46:09 pm
You also forgot to upload some strings to Transifex, like Fire Extinguisher and Macro Flamer :). Attached is the translation with these strings and some minor fixes added.

Along with that, there's a missing string: STR_MICRO_FLAMER_CLIP

You're right, yeah... I have updated the Transifex.
Can you please add your new strings there? I'll probably screw it up. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: HT on June 02, 2018, 05:53:00 pm
Skimmed a little to check the new changes. No idea which faction does use Minotaurs yet. As for Hybrid Agents of your own, they're crazy good: Identical stats to rookies with better Psi Strength by default (aka the God-Stat), they come with built-in shield that while weak it's something no-one else of your guys does and they can use any outfit. The only drawbacks are their high price and the fact they're fuck-ugly and hard to distinguish if you have multiple of them in the same mission.

As for ghosts, they're exclusive to the Asylum mission and I'm not sure if they're dependent on the Monsters: Final Solution research or not, although I would say it's unlikely. Said missions have a rather... Unique music and ghosts are immune to most attacks, as expected. You also need a special building to contain and study them, but little use for them besides that as far I've seen.

Are they part of the joke arc you mentioned at some point, Solarius?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Kammerer on June 02, 2018, 05:59:41 pm
Can you please add your new strings there? I'll probably screw it up. :P

Sure, no problem. Updated the translation on Transifex.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2018, 09:04:45 pm
Skimmed a little to check the new changes. No idea which faction does use Minotaurs yet.

I could tell you, but why spoil it? :)

As for Hybrid Agents of your own, they're crazy good: Identical stats to rookies with better Psi Strength by default (aka the God-Stat)

THat's not completely true and you know that. :P

they come with built-in shield that while weak it's something no-one else of your guys does and they can use any outfit. The only drawbacks are their high price and the fact they're fuck-ugly and hard to distinguish if you have multiple of them in the same mission.

They're impossible to distinguish! (To us anyway.)
And say what you will, I like brainy girls. :P

As for ghosts, they're exclusive to the Asylum mission and I'm not sure if they're dependent on the Monsters: Final Solution research or not, although I would say it's unlikely. Said missions have a rather... Unique music and ghosts are immune to most attacks, as expected. You also need a special building to contain and study them, but little use for them besides that as far I've seen.

It's the seed of a possible future arc. For now, they're basically an Easter egg.

Sure, no problem. Updated the translation on Transifex.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Ind3gL0 on June 03, 2018, 06:44:52 am
Sorry if these questions have already been asked, but I'd like to know

1. Are the hotkeys rebind-able? I'd like to rebind the MMB one (the MMB doesn't really work on my mouse, and I'd like to be able to use that functionality).

2. I'm can't view the entirety of the tech tree (I have the spoilers option off in the options, and it won't let me see anything in it, any future tech options or anything I've already researched). Does that have anything to do with installing the mod, or is there something else going on with it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 03, 2018, 07:27:14 am
Keys are changeable to the extent that can be seen in options. Unfortunately I can't help further; I think mouse buttons can't be rebound.

As for the tech tree, I have no idea what can be happening if you have spoilers off. Some research is blocked by items, some can only be gained from interrogations - have you accounted for these?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Ind3gL0 on June 03, 2018, 08:29:50 am
Keys are changeable to the extent that can be seen in options. Unfortunately I can't help further; I think mouse buttons can't be rebound.

As for the tech tree, I have no idea what can be happening if you have spoilers off. Some research is blocked by items, some can only be gained from interrogations - have you accounted for these?
Can those hotkey options not be granted to additional keys? I could try and make my mouse thing some other key on it is MMB.

And as far as the tech tree, it doesn't show anything. (Nothing I've already researched, or can, or will).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Ind3gL0 on June 03, 2018, 08:44:26 am
Can those hotkey options not be granted to additional keys? I could try and make my mouse thing some other key on it is MMB.
I've been able to use software to tell my mouse to have one of the side buttons act like the MMB, so that's fixed now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Meridian on June 03, 2018, 08:48:38 am
And as far as the tech tree, it doesn't show anything. (Nothing I've already researched, or can, or will).

Screenshot please.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Ind3gL0 on June 03, 2018, 11:53:19 am
I'm a few months in and have done a fair bit of research.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Meridian on June 03, 2018, 12:10:56 pm
Hmm, strange indeed. Can you provide a save too please?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: krautbernd on June 03, 2018, 06:12:01 pm
FYI, the tech tree doesn't show anything by default - you actually have to select/search a topic.

Addendum:
Nice to see that we finally get an option to put out fires (or burning agents, or aliens...or civilians). Have you thought about adding a one-use option like a fire blanket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_blanket)? It makes sense to have a fire extinguisher on an aircarft, but lobbing one around while you're being shot at by extraterrestials or monster seems kind of...strange. Fire blankets could be one or two spaces wide, lighter than the extinguisher, but their effect would cover only one square (or 3x3, centered around the target) - they would only be good to actually extinguish fires on units (or very small fires). Something like that would be extremely helpful to keep units that have been set on fire and fall unconscious from dying. I often set units i want to catpure on fire to panic them and soften them up. If they fall unconscious while still on fire they're almost always bound die due to the damage.

BTW, since we already have a large storage facility and large living quarters - any plans to add a large workshop in the future?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Ind3gL0 on June 03, 2018, 10:55:16 pm
Hmm, strange indeed. Can you provide a save too please?
Sure, here's a recent one
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: krautbernd on June 03, 2018, 11:26:57 pm
Works just fine as far as i can tell. Just playing it while ignoring the mission and only doing research, the counter rolled over to 1% shortly before the project was terminated. I think you might be underestimating how much content the mod adds to the game.

Again, for the tech tree viewer to show anything you need to select a topic. Have you tried clicking the button labelled "Select a topic" and entered a search term?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Ind3gL0 on June 04, 2018, 12:01:24 am
Works just fine as far as i can tell. Just playing it while ignoring the mission and only doing research, the counter rolled over to 1% shortly before the project was terminated. I think you might be underestimating how much content the mod adds to the game.

Again, for the tech tree viewer to show anything you need to select a topic. Have you tried clicking the button labelled "Select a topic" and entered a search term?
Kinda, some stuff shows up if I use the right search term.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: krautbernd on June 04, 2018, 12:19:54 am
Kinda, some stuff shows up if I use the right search term.
Yeah, that's the way it works. Alternativly you can use the middle mouse button on the research topics to directly open them in the viewer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Rich on June 04, 2018, 02:27:35 am
I can't see the damage type, for example, with the tazer i see damage type "11" instead of "stun"
What could be the problem here bois?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 04, 2018, 08:44:06 am
Version 0.9 is released.
(* ru.yml)
Thank you!
This modification I like more and more!  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Dr.Crowley on June 04, 2018, 11:21:26 am
Version 0.9 is released.

Aaaargh, time to update AGAIN.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 04, 2018, 12:35:11 pm
I think I said it... I'm French and I don't understand English. I communicate through an online translator. Sorry !
I have problems understanding sentences :
  STR_EXALT_ENFORCER_ARMOR_ADAPTATION: "EXALT Enforcer Processing"
  STR_SYNDICATE_AGENT_ARMOR_ADAPTATION: "Syndicate Agent Processing"
  STR_POSTAL0_ARMOR_ADAPTATION: "Homicidal Maniac Processing"
  STR_POSTAL1_ARMOR_ADAPTATION: "Crazed Soldier Processing"
  STR_POSTAL2_ARMOR_ADAPTATION: "Insane Vigilante Processing"

The translation is not very consistent. In a few simple words can you tell me what you mean by "processing".
It seems the prisoners are turning into armor?  :-[
Thanks !

Translated by https://www.deepl.com/translator
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Valerra on June 04, 2018, 12:54:07 pm
Is this mod playable on android port with oxce+?

I mean, is it possible to play without keyboard and only with touchscreen?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 04, 2018, 01:49:22 pm
Nice to see that we finally get an option to put out fires (or burning agents, or aliens...or civilians). Have you thought about adding a one-use option like a fire blanket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_blanket)?

It's certainly doable, but seems rather superfluous.

BTW, since we already have a large storage facility and large living quarters - any plans to add a large workshop in the future?

Maybe, why not. But it's not exactly a priority right now.

I can't see the damage type, for example, with the tazer i see damage type "11" instead of "stun"
What could be the problem here bois?

Most likely your language is set as en-GB instead of en-US.

Thank you!
This modification I like more and more!  ;)

Thank you! :)

Aaaargh, time to update AGAIN.

Hey, this one took me ages! :P

The translation is not very consistent. In a few simple words can you tell me what you mean by "processing".
It seems the prisoners are turning into armor?  :-[

Processing prisoners means processing prisoners: checks, interrogation, cataloguing their belongings and sending them off to an appropriate institution. But yes, sometimes it means you get to keep some of their stuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 04, 2018, 02:22:16 pm
Most likely your language is set as en-GB instead of en-US.
@ Rich
In my case my game is set to be in French. So it's not possible for me to set it to "en-US"!
But it's easy to fix this problem!  ;)
In the "\common\Language\OXCE" folder, open (with the Windows notepad) the file of your language (fr.yml for me).
At the end of the file add or modify the lines to have :
  STR_DAMAGE_10: "EMP"
  STR_DAMAGE_11: "ELECTRIC"
  STR_DAMAGE_12: "PSI"
  STR_DAMAGE_13: "WARP"
  STR_DAMAGE_14: "E-115"
  STR_DAMAGE_15: "15"
  STR_DAMAGE_16: "16"
  STR_DAMAGE_17: "17"
  STR_DAMAGE_18: "18"
  STR_DAMAGE_19: "19"

It works great in my game!  ;)


Processing prisoners means processing prisoners: checks, interrogation, cataloguing their belongings and sending them off to an appropriate institution. But yes, sometimes it means you get to keep some of their stuff.
Ah! I get it!
Thanks !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Rich on June 04, 2018, 06:34:27 pm
Most likely your language is set as en-GB instead of en-US.

Yep, that was it, thanks!

@ Rich
In my case my game is set to be in French. So it's not possible for me to set it to "en-US"!
But it's easy to fix this problem!  ;)
In the "\common\Language\OXCE" folder, open (with the Windows notepad) the file of your language (fr.yml for me).
At the end of the file add or modify the lines to have :
  STR_DAMAGE_10: "EMP"
  STR_DAMAGE_11: "ELECTRIC"
  STR_DAMAGE_12: "PSI"
  STR_DAMAGE_13: "WARP"
  STR_DAMAGE_14: "E-115"
  STR_DAMAGE_15: "15"
  STR_DAMAGE_16: "16"
  STR_DAMAGE_17: "17"
  STR_DAMAGE_18: "18"
  STR_DAMAGE_19: "19"

It works great in my game!  ;)

Thanks for the info! Still, english is not my first language so US or UK (at least for me) is basically the same lol
Still good to know, thank you very much!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Dr.Crowley on June 05, 2018, 02:22:12 am
Is this mod playable on android port with oxce+?

I mean, is it possible to play without keyboard and only with touchscreen?

Well, as far as I know the only useful key is spacebar for night vision so you will probably will not need keyboad at all ::)

Hey, this one took me ages! :P

But for me, it was Tuesdaymerely a week :P

Whatever. The addition of fire extinguisher somewhat answered a question I would like to ask - I was so happy to get my hands on agricultural flamer... until I found my team nearly in a middle of the forest fire  ;D

Got Ski Resort mission today. The description said that I can take only sporting gear but some experimentation showed that besides Sporting Rifles this includes almost every melee weapon (except Axe, Billhook and Electric Club), Throwing Knives and even Crossbows (that were the way more useful for this mission than Sporting Rifles). Take a note, folks ;D

Yet another matter: never EVER hunt chupacabras in a farm village without shotguns! 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 05, 2018, 09:55:31 am
All this stuff is Sporting Equipment, doh :P And canbe filtered as such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Deviont on June 05, 2018, 04:28:59 pm
Thanks for version 0.9, but I noticed a little strangeness , black lotus assassins / warriors try basically to stun my soldiers in close combat with katana ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 05, 2018, 07:23:02 pm
Thanks for version 0.9, but I noticed a little strangeness , black lotus assassins / warriors try basically to stun my soldiers in close combat with katana ;D

Hmm... They shouldn't do that :P


EDIT: Yeah, it appears the AI still uses the fastest weapon, even if one of these weapons is unarmed... One option would be to make unarmed attacks slow, but considering the slowest weapons are easily 30 TU per attack, this isn't really viable.

I have quickly prepared a save for testing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: swivelchair on June 06, 2018, 12:59:40 am
Im a little embarrassed that I have to keep asking for advice but here it is. How in the world do you deal with etherals? I have literally only killed one once. It took a large rocket and 3-4 turns of two guys with black ops miniguns blasting it to kill it. And the whole time the psionics wrecked my team, I cant take on a alien base if any etherals are there, 3/4 of my team are mindcontrolled or panicked by the 2nd turn.

Do they have any weaknesses? I mean maybe I just need to research more of my own psi stuff for defense but Ill need to do it soon or x-com is toast.

btw is this the right place to ask this? if it isnt sorry, I can go to another thread if need be
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: legionof1 on June 06, 2018, 02:13:05 am
Sounds like,
1: your example has you using a not particularly appropriate set of weapons. The key to defeating shields is throughput since they regen. Lots of low dmg shots with poor accuracy(miniguns) have a hard time dealing with shields.  Single shot high TU cost weapons won't have the damage by themselves, usually. Accurate fast firing rifles, and shotguns are the best choice. Once your past the shield etherals are pretty frail, low armor and only middling hp.

2: Defense against psi relies on your own agents Psi strength and to a lesser extent psi skill. Screen for good Psi Str when you able to. Psi Panic attacks can be mitigated by good bravery and the presence of high rank agents. Mind control effects can be mitigated by keeping your agents out of line of sight of each other. You can also have agents drop there weapons at the end of the turn so at most they just try and fisticuffs there fellows which is far less deadly then your best weapons by the time ethereals are around.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Rich on June 06, 2018, 10:46:09 pm
Really sorry to bother again bois, but... Are throwing knives supposed to do 0 damage?
I mean, no bonuses from throwing and such? If so i can't see them and don't know why   :-X
I've attached a screenshot of the ufopedia page...

Thanks again for the help and great mod, i'm loving it! Even if it's pretty unforgiving  :-X

Edit: maybe i'm dumb, but am i supposed to have the info tab? I can see the bonuses in there but... maybe i shouldn't see that button?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: ohartenstein23 on June 06, 2018, 10:50:07 pm
Really sorry to bother again bois, but... Are throwing knives supposed to do 0 damage?
I mean, no bonuses from throwing and such? If so i can't see them and don't know why   :-X
I've attached a screenshot of the ufopedia page...

Thanks again for the help and great mod, i'm loving it! Even if it's pretty unforgiving  :-X

Click the INFO button, the damage bonus formula has moved to the screen that is accessed by that button.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Rich on June 06, 2018, 10:57:14 pm
Click the INFO button, the damage bonus formula has moved to the screen that is accessed by that button.

Oh ok, thanks! So i'm actually dumb yay! 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.8.9 alpha: The Mummy's Curse
Post by: AnPro on June 07, 2018, 02:23:44 am
As car as I know the ES translation (of any type) has only started, so unfortunately you can only use English or Russian for now.
As for the item order, yes, they are grouped by type on all lists, plus you can filter them.
Gracias, Thanks
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: AnPro on June 07, 2018, 02:39:08 am
Version 0.9 is released.

0.9:
- New agent type: Alien Hybrid.
- New mission: Asylum Apparitions.
- New units: Bug Eye Ghost, Spectral Entity, Minotaur.
- New weapons: Macro Flamer, Giant Axe.
- New Blood Plasma extractions (Chupacabras, Megascorpions, Giant Beetles, Shadowbats, Werewolves, Werecats).
- Added unarmed attacks to most units.
- Increased Rocket Launcher firepower.
- Explosives now have varied prime TU cost (generally faster).
- Buffed Floater armor.
- Snakemen now regenerate health.
- Zombies are no longer immune to Stun (but still highly resistant).
- Syndicate CEO Psi Attack now ignores half the armor.
- First level madman wears a light vest now.
- Taser can now be used on ski missions.
- Synthsuit has better Strength bonus.
- Scout Drone is faster.
- New options to rob some enemies off their armor.
- Medi-Kit production now requires Blood Plasma.
- Some new Ufopaedia articles.
- Increased Electro-Flare power to 15 (same as vanilla).
- Depowered Sectoid shields (by 33%; regeneration stays the same).
- Janissary is no longer susceptible to E-115 damage.
- Ooze can't bleed now.
- Scout Drone ammo arrives faster.
- Decreased Fighter's firing range.
- Somewhat decreased chances for UFOs to spawn as hunter killers.
- Fixed a hole in the Skymarshall.
- Fixed a conflict of terrains, causing multiple Meridians appearing on Croc Raid missions.
- Fixed a problem with one Slander mission.
- Minor fixes.
oh, that is amazing.
Is The update complete in the first post?
I am really liked this mod, I am very new in this community... is if I update de game to the last update?, is probably lose the advance the I have? true?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: legionof1 on June 07, 2018, 02:53:05 am
The link in the first post is the up to date version. And usually an update does not break saves.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: AnPro on June 07, 2018, 03:28:19 am
The link in the first post is the up to date version. And usually an update does not break saves.
Thanks
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Niewiem on June 07, 2018, 02:22:49 pm
Yup this one works well after upadate ;) tried it like 2 days ago :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: leekall on June 12, 2018, 01:41:59 am

Hi, I just recently downloaded the newest version of openxcom XCOM files and every time I start a mission with alien agents the game crashes. I have tried to remove certain mods and see if that is what's causing the issue that didn't work. So I tried to uninstall and reinstall the program that didn't work so I was wondering if there's a patch out there that I don't know about for this issue.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Torklan on June 12, 2018, 02:16:42 am
I found this Mod by watching Yogscast Ben & Lewis. It got me interested in reinstalling OpenXcom again. I have been really enjoying this and I am about to start my second playthough. My only issue with the mod is the amount of enemies on some custom maps. The Apocalypse cult ones in particular. I played on the easiest difficulty to experience as much of the new content as possible without the harsh curve the vanilla game can be.

Those missions such as the gathering in the woods has 20+ units all surrounding starting location. Simply put those missions are just worth doing. At the tech level which they appear they are just not worth the guaranteed loss of agents.

Which leads me to my second concern. The locking of progression behind destruction of one of the Cults. This one fact is why I am having to restart my game. I took too long to capture the needed get to the upper tiers of the Cult missions and it became 1999. Once the invasion began almost of of the Cult missions stop appearing. Simply ending any chance to unlock Promotion III.

What would be nice is to have a second way to unlock Promotion III using an alien unlocked tech. That way there is not a hard end to the game if you take too long.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mumble on June 12, 2018, 04:35:31 am
Technically, you can open it via operations with the under-dark / syndicate , but yes, getting promotion 3 is STILL a rediculous challenge to those who aren't professionals at x-com.

Honestly I think a massive issue with xcom files is that solairus balances this for high end players at mid end difficulties, and last I checked, super human isn't taken as a serious option by solair (at least, last time I asked about it)

Lastly, I know some people will complain the game is "too easy", but I think these people are also some of the MUCH higher end players who meta the living hell out of the game : which is difficult in games like this, because normal players might find decent balance, but decent balance might come across as "too easy" for players who min max every element, and carefully calculate almost all decisions.

I've even seen a handful of streamers on twitch who, despite LOVING the content in XCF, end up ditching it on lower difficulties because of issues with research, and difficulties moving forward...and even with the changes a while ago to promotion 3, it still takes going through a long arc of missions in 2 years to just BEGIN to unlock equipment that is extremely necessary to even begin to fight aliens, and if you hit the invasion before that, you are essentially completely screwed : I think this particular element needs more forgiveness for less skilled player, because my last playthrough also had to be trashed for that reason.

If I might make a suggestion? Perhaps make promotion 3 unlocked from destroying a cult, and, to reward more savy players, maybe have missions that reward getting promotion 3 early, like being able to shoot down hybrid / MIB ships, to get the jump on such missions pre invasion... Its not fun having such a time limit to get the CORRECT order of research to go quickly, and its a pretty lengthy process to get promotion 3.

Alternatively, another year might be useful to deal with syndicate, underdark, ect...

UNRELATED question, will some of the engine improvements (CQC, punching, spotter sniper, hunterkiller, ECT) Be ported into FMP? I know XCF essentially has FMP, but sometimes i'd rather not be arsed with the roll up to promotion 3, especially with it being such a headache... Not to mention these effects in general are amazing, but XCF has one hell of a curve, that some people aren't ready for.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 12, 2018, 08:40:39 am
When is the next version of the mod expected?
I stopped the game because of problems with some maps and I hope to fix it in the next version.
Thanks for the cool game! ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mumble on June 12, 2018, 09:14:00 am
Well...I gotta say fists make cultists, particularly the red dawn ganger, INCREDIBLY dangerous compared to before : just had a squad wipe over tazing a ganger down, taking him to the car, him waking, dodging all swings with flashlights and fists, before beating up one of my guys, grabbing his gun, and killing the other...

Speaking of which, do "surrendered" cultists not use fists?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 12, 2018, 12:21:08 pm
Hi, I just recently downloaded the newest version of openxcom XCOM files and every time I start a mission with alien agents the game crashes. I have tried to remove certain mods and see if that is what's causing the issue that didn't work. So I tried to uninstall and reinstall the program that didn't work so I was wondering if there's a patch out there that I don't know about for this issue.

No, there are no known bugs of this calibre. Either you have installed the game incorrectly, or you are using other mods which are causing a conflict.
And I don't think there are many mods which would be compatible with X-Com Files at all. It's possible, but the chances are low.

I found this Mod by watching Yogscast Ben & Lewis. It got me interested in reinstalling OpenXcom again. I have been really enjoying this and I am about to start my second playthough.

Thanks a lot! Always a great pleasure to hear such praise, especially from a new player.

My only issue with the mod is the amount of enemies on some custom maps. The Apocalypse cult ones in particular. I played on the easiest difficulty to experience as much of the new content as possible without the harsh curve the vanilla game can be.

Those missions such as the gathering in the woods has 20+ units all surrounding starting location. Simply put those missions are just worth doing. At the tech level which they appear they are just not worth the guaranteed loss of agents.

What difficulty are you playing on?
I don't recall these missions being particularly challenging.

Which leads me to my second concern. The locking of progression behind destruction of one of the Cults. This one fact is why I am having to restart my game. I took too long to capture the needed get to the upper tiers of the Cult missions and it became 1999. Once the invasion began almost of of the Cult missions stop appearing. Simply ending any chance to unlock Promotion III.

There is no relation at all between the game time and spawning cult missions. You can continue into 1999 as normal. Therefore your premise is entirely false.

What would be nice is to have a second way to unlock Promotion III using an alien unlocked tech. That way there is not a hard end to the game if you take too long.

There is no need for that, and it wouldn't make much sense. Terminating one cult isn't really that hard with Promotion II equipment.

Technically, you can open it via operations with the under-dark / syndicate , but yes, getting promotion 3 is STILL a rediculous challenge to those who aren't professionals at x-com.

Orly...

Honestly I think a massive issue with xcom files is that solairus balances this for high end players at mid end difficulties, and last I checked, super human isn't taken as a serious option by solair (at least, last time I asked about it)

Of course it isn't a "serious" option, it's an option for masochists and other psychos. That's why it's the highest difficulty... This is how most computer games work, you know.

Lastly, I know some people will complain the game is "too easy", but I think these people are also some of the MUCH higher end players who meta the living hell out of the game : which is difficult in games like this, because normal players might find decent balance, but decent balance might come across as "too easy" for players who min max every element, and carefully calculate almost all decisions.

This is why we have difficulty levels!!!

I've even seen a handful of streamers on twitch who, despite LOVING the content in XCF, end up ditching it on lower difficulties because of issues with research, and difficulties moving forward...and even with the changes a while ago to promotion 3, it still takes going through a long arc of missions in 2 years to just BEGIN to unlock equipment that is extremely necessary to even begin to fight aliens, and if you hit the invasion before that, you are essentially completely screwed : I think this particular element needs more forgiveness for less skilled player, because my last playthrough also had to be trashed for that reason.

What?
I also watch streams... People playing on Superhuman and still doing fine. If anything, I think the mod is too easy at this point.

If I might make a suggestion? Perhaps make promotion 3 unlocked from destroying a cult, and, to reward more savy players, maybe have missions that reward getting promotion 3 early, like being able to shoot down hybrid / MIB ships, to get the jump on such missions pre invasion... Its not fun having such a time limit to get the CORRECT order of research to go quickly, and its a pretty lengthy process to get promotion 3.

FFS, there is no "time limit" or any silliness like that. Please stop spreading paranoia. You make X-Com Files look like some insanely hard SNES game, while in fact it's pretty forgiving. Unless you insist on winning every battle ever, then it becomes really hard, and rightly so.

Alternatively, another year might be useful to deal with syndicate, underdark, ect...

No, there is more than enough time. I've seen Dioxine finishing off Red Dawn in like 6 months... :P Admittedly Dioxine is a top player (he did it with a goddamn helicopter and 6 people), but there is much more time until 1999. And even if you're late, it doesn't really change anything.

UNRELATED question, will some of the engine improvements (CQC, punching, spotter sniper, hunterkiller, ECT) Be ported into FMP? I know XCF essentially has FMP, but sometimes i'd rather not be arsed with the roll up to promotion 3, especially with it being such a headache... Not to mention these effects in general are amazing, but XCF has one hell of a curve, that some people aren't ready for.

No, FMP is for vanilla OpenXCom, so no OXCE features will be used.

When is the next version of the mod expected?
I stopped the game because of problems with some maps and I hope to fix it in the next version.
Thanks for the cool game! ;)

The next version shouldn't be far away (maybe this weekend), but what map problems do you mean? It sounds like a serious issue and I am completely unaware of it. The exception being Railyard, which sometimes creates impassable maps on "Arrest the suspects" missions - this will be fixed.

Well...I gotta say fists make cultists, particularly the red dawn ganger, INCREDIBLY dangerous compared to before : just had a squad wipe over tazing a ganger down, taking him to the car, him waking, dodging all swings with flashlights and fists, before beating up one of my guys, grabbing his gun, and killing the other...

Brilliant!
However, I wouldn't say that a prisoner waking up, beating up armed guards and taking their weapons counts as "incredibly dangerous"... The guards are simply incompetent. :D
Prisoners should be guarded, eh?

Speaking of which, do "surrendered" cultists not use fists?

No idea XD They should.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mumble on June 12, 2018, 01:14:29 pm
Dioxne beat red dawn cult in 6 months? I don't even grasp how this is possible... Research alone I figure would take longer than that. Still... I wouldn't say the game is too easy. Like you said, super human is for "psychos and weirdos...and dioxne".

As for streamers, I guess it depends who you are talking about...for poet, and a couple others, who are hard as balls into the xcom meta, sure, but people who play vanilla xcom and want a sort of transfer into mods, this seems a little harsh later in. I understand its a bit more of a challenge, but I fear a lot of the difficulty isn't reflected by the difficulty SETTING : research is still a bit tedious, you are still outnumbered, and outgunned....I don't know, I'd really like to see the videos of dioxne getting red dawn killed in 6 months, just to see how hes researching and using his money, it takes me around a month just to get vans and kevlar it seems like...
 
Incompetent guards?....well...yeah, probably  :-X I guess I didn't expect it to be so nasty, before downed enemies would be perfectly safe if you kept them away from downed guns, now they are a force to be reckoned with... I almost wish we could beat downed enemies with a night stick like a stereotypical "police brutality" clip, so enemies stay down. Using tazer clips to keep enemies down is funny, but higher maintenance than just hitting them. Regardless this makes capturing much more harsh, especially with numbers, and long battles.  Taking in NINJAS is going to be horrifying now if they wake up O_O

I'm not sure if you are able, but I think surrendered enemies should really not punch.... honestly I've wondered if enemies could be made to take massive stun as a possible panic effect, to simulate them basically laying on the ground with their hands behind their head, maybe with a white flag symbol, and maybe allowed to join the battle if out of XCOM sight, but in the sight of another cultist...would make captures a little more manageable, without idiots running everywhere causing reaction fire.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 12, 2018, 02:29:06 pm
I'm not sure if you are able, but I think surrendered enemies should really not punch.... honestly I've wondered if enemies could be made to take massive stun as a possible panic effect, to simulate them basically laying on the ground with their hands behind their head, maybe with a white flag symbol, and maybe allowed to join the battle if out of XCOM sight, but in the sight of another cultist...would make captures a little more manageable, without idiots running everywhere causing reaction fire.
You still have the option "STR_CUT_THROAT:" - the "coup de grâce" !
This option is very practical!  :)  :)  ;)
Especially if they're of little interest.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Dioxine on June 12, 2018, 04:17:09 pm
Please, please...
1) Beating Red Dawn took me more than 6 months; more like 12 :)
2) I did not play Superhuman, but Genius. I don't have penis size issues. :)
3) I played before enemy Snipers, Hunter-Killers and punchies. So I'm a bit outdated :)
4) Having said that, I advanced much faster than Poet. By July-August 1998 I started to have more money than I could ever spend - thanks for the option to buy Alloy Ammo from Magma, deals like these allow to squander huge sums on a bit of extra performance, I would like to see more of that :)

As for prisoners waking up, that story was brilliant. I applaud the Red Dawn ganger! If he was able to bring down 2 armed guards, good for him.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 12, 2018, 04:30:05 pm
Dioxne beat red dawn cult in 6 months? I don't even grasp how this is possible... Research alone I figure would take longer than that. Still... I wouldn't say the game is too easy. Like you said, super human is for "psychos and weirdos...and dioxne".

To be honest I am not sure if it was within 6 months, maybe a bit more. But he didn't have the Dragonfly yet, so it couldn't have been much longer. Also, he wasn't playing on Superhuman :P (I think it was Genius.)
Still, it was just an example.

As for streamers, I guess it depends who you are talking about...for poet, and a couple others, who are hard as balls into the xcom meta, sure, but people who play vanilla xcom and want a sort of transfer into mods, this seems a little harsh later in. I understand its a bit more of a challenge, but I fear a lot of the difficulty isn't reflected by the difficulty SETTING : research is still a bit tedious, you are still outnumbered, and outgunned....I don't know, I'd really like to see the videos of dioxne getting red dawn killed in 6 months, just to see how hes researching and using his money, it takes me around a month just to get vans and kevlar it seems like...

If you fail, you learn. And restart. And learn some more. This is a computer game. I thought it should be obvious?
I mean, what value would it have if it came effortlessly? For effortless fun we have RedTube. :P
As a modder/designer, I am primarily concerned with the game beingvfair. Which I think I delivered. And I disagree that it requires special meta knowledge, except maybe some unclear articles - I am working on them.
 
Incompetent guards?....well...yeah, probably  :-X I guess I didn't expect it to be so nasty, before downed enemies would be perfectly safe if you kept them away from downed guns, now they are a force to be reckoned with... I almost wish we could beat downed enemies with a night stick like a stereotypical "police brutality" clip, so enemies stay down. Using tazer clips to keep enemies down is funny, but higher maintenance than just hitting them. Regardless this makes capturing much more harsh, especially with numbers, and long battles.  Taking in NINJAS is going to be horrifying now if they wake up O_O

But they are still unarmed, while you are not. Also, some police brutality is still perfectly valid with tonfas and the like. :D (except beating unconscious people)
Having said that, I appreciate that situations like you described earlier will happen sometimes. But that's X-Com for you! Such cases make for great stories, as long as the design is good.

I'm not sure if you are able, but I think surrendered enemies should really not punch.... honestly I've wondered if enemies could be made to take massive stun as a possible panic effect, to simulate them basically laying on the ground with their hands behind their head, maybe with a white flag symbol, and maybe allowed to join the battle if out of XCOM sight, but in the sight of another cultist...would make captures a little more manageable, without idiots running everywhere causing reaction fire.

Well, not much I can do here... "Surrendered" enemies can use weapons like everyone else, so why would punching be any different?

EDIT: Ninja'd by Dioxine. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mumble on June 12, 2018, 05:44:50 pm
I do wonder how hard it would be to enable beating downed enemies, without killing them.....

By the way, forgot to mention with that story : it was at night, 2 agents, in a shanty town in india, so....he juked me in the dark, hard.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Dioxine on June 12, 2018, 09:08:13 pm
You can further stun them when they're down, geez. Use a shooting or AoE weapon. You should really learn more before complaining about perceived lack of options.
There's of course a downside: they might die of overstun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mumble on June 13, 2018, 12:31:34 am
Dioxine, i SPECIFICALLY said beating, didn't I? I normally already taze downed enemies to over-stun, but tazers and such are in limited supply, compared to the end of a shock baton.

I'm aware we can also EXECUTE enemies with melee, but IIRC, this just instantly kills em when you hold both, and use melee on the held  body.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: khade on June 13, 2018, 01:04:04 am
What about something like the coup de grace with a blunt weapon to do stun damage?  You can even call it police brutality if you want.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Torklan on June 13, 2018, 02:15:40 am

What difficulty are you playing on?
I don't recall these missions being particularly challenging.

Since I did not know the full Mod changes or find a wiki I was playing on Beginner.

There is no relation at all between the game time and spawning cult missions. You can continue into 1999 as normal. Therefore your premise is entirely false.

I did continue through 1999. The lack being able to shoot down UFOs meant they kept the game spawned them in greater numbers and larger sizes. So by the time I gave up the playthrough it was September of 2000. At which point there was almost no Cult mission spawning. They were all crowded out with UFOs, hybrid and terror missions.

There is no need for that, and it wouldn't make much sense. Terminating one cult isn't really that hard with Promotion II equipment.

I think it is more a fact without a road map and knowledge of which cultists to capture and when it having to end a cult becomes a very large uphill battle.

FFS, there is no "time limit" or any silliness like that. Please stop spreading paranoia. You make X-Com Files look like some insanely hard SNES game, while in fact it's pretty forgiving. Unless you insist on winning every battle ever, then it becomes really hard, and rightly so.

It is the base game that causes the time limit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mumble on June 13, 2018, 02:45:28 am
I think its more the difficulty curve of unlocking promotion 3 : last I checked it was long, a little conveluded, and requiring infiltration of some of the higher tech groups like syndicate and such, and doing so is a bit harder than cult missions...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: leekall on June 13, 2018, 08:59:06 am
Can anybody help me I'm having an issue every time I try certain mission Medium Convoy the game will crash and say invalid surface set hybrid pack 4 armor Str Hybrid Armor, not enough frames?
this what I got from the logs

11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_LMG_AA_CLIP
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_EXPLOSIVE_AMMO
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_INCENDIARY_AMMO
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_SYNTHETIC_MUSCLES
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_AA_CLIP
[11-06-2018_14-14-34]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: Sprite Set XCOM_202.PCK not found
[11-06-2018_14-14-34]   [FATAL]   Unfortunately, no stack trace information is available
[11-06-2018_14-14-42]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: Sprite Set XCOM_202.PCK not found
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2018, 12:23:38 pm
Since I did not know the full Mod changes or find a wiki I was playing on Beginner.

OK. Beginner is actually cheaty, as it decreases enemy armour, but I can't see how it could cause problems with the campaign.

I did continue through 1999. The lack being able to shoot down UFOs meant they kept the game spawned them in greater numbers and larger sizes. So by the time I gave up the playthrough it was September of 2000. At which point there was almost no Cult mission spawning. They were all crowded out with UFOs, hybrid and terror missions.

Repeat after me: game time does not influence frequency of cult missions. Nor do any alien missions. Period.

I think it is more a fact without a road map and knowledge of which cultists to capture and when it having to end a cult becomes a very large uphill battle.

I respectfully disagree. Plenty of people play X-Com Files to with good results.
Honestly, what information are you lacking? I honestly don't understand what the problem is. What kind of a "road map" do you need to capture and interrogate some guys???

It is the base game that causes the time limit.

I totally don't understand. What limit???
Sorry, but if I am to help, I must understand the problem first... Can anyone else provide any light maybe?

Can anybody help me I'm having an issue every time I try certain mission Medium Convoy the game will crash and say invalid surface set hybrid pack 4 armor Str Hybrid Armor, not enough frames?
this what I got from the logs

11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_LMG_AA_CLIP
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_EXPLOSIVE_AMMO
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_INCENDIARY_AMMO
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_SYNTHETIC_MUSCLES
[11-06-2018_14-14-11]   [ERROR]   Failed to load research STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_AA_CLIP
[11-06-2018_14-14-34]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: Sprite Set XCOM_202.PCK not found
[11-06-2018_14-14-34]   [FATAL]   Unfortunately, no stack trace information is available
[11-06-2018_14-14-42]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: Sprite Set XCOM_202.PCK not found


Yeah, I saw your report in another thread. I will soon check.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mayford on June 13, 2018, 02:10:28 pm
Hi!
What should be the settings of the game, so as not to overlap the mod? "Advanced", "Mods", etc.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Meridian on June 13, 2018, 02:31:33 pm
Hi!
What should be the settings of the game, so as not to overlap the mod? "Advanced", "Mods", etc.

I'm sorry, but I do not understand the question at all.

What do you mean by "overlap"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2018, 02:36:29 pm
Hi!

Good question from Meridian, but let me respond to what I think you meant:

Generally speaking, no mods are compatible. Probably there are exceptions, but no mod is officially endorsed. If you want to use something, you must experiment and tweak it yourself. This includes vanilla mods, like melee on all guns and such.

As for the options, those that are necessary have been locked. If you can change them, then it means you are allowed to. :)

Have fun!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mayford on June 13, 2018, 03:39:21 pm
I meant the settings that are in the game besides your mod. In the sections "Advanced" and "Mods". Will they affect the mod? I use only your mod. Or what can not be changed, highlighted in purple?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2018, 03:49:45 pm
Under "Mods", only X-Com Files should be active.
Under "Advanced", it's up to you, but note that some options are locked and cannot be changed anyway (unless you modify the mod files, which of course is not a good idea if you don't know exactly what you are doing).
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mayford on June 13, 2018, 04:13:48 pm
That is, for normal play, all options in the "Advanced" and "Mods" sections should be disabled, except those that are blocked?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Meridian on June 13, 2018, 04:33:36 pm
That is, for normal play, all options in the "Advanced" and "Mods" sections should be disabled, except those that are blocked?

In "Mods" everything should be disabled.
In "Advanced" you can change all you want.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 13, 2018, 06:00:37 pm
This includes vanilla mods, like melee on all guns and such.
Interesting!
So, if I understood correctly, you preferred the "hand-to-hand combat" option (punch) and you don't want to activate (make) the "melee with a weapon" options?

Translated by https://www.deepl.com/translator
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: ohartenstein23 on June 13, 2018, 06:36:01 pm
It's more that the mod "melee with a weapon" for the original X-Com only works for weapons that were in the original, so any of the new weapons that are in XCF won't get melee attacks.  Also, the melee attack balance is completely different in XCF, so the values on the original weapons won't make sense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 13, 2018, 07:22:07 pm
Thanks for the explanation!  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2018, 09:49:00 pm
Torklan, I don't know exactly what is wrong with your save. But the error log you posted contains references to researches that certainly does not exist in X-Com Files, like STR_SYNTHETIC_MUSCLES, STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_AA_CLIP etc. (though they existed at some point in the past). So I'm sure your install is broken somehow.

EDIT: No, you were right :D The Power Suit sprite was broken for hybrids. Sorry!
(Still no idea about these researches, though)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: mayford on June 14, 2018, 09:48:12 am
Why is an instant grenade explosion blocked?
It was very convenient. All weapons act instantly, except grenades. Uncomfortable.
I understand that it was in the original, but ...
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 14, 2018, 11:03:13 am
Why is an instant grenade explosion blocked?
It was very convenient. All weapons act instantly, except grenades. Uncomfortable.
I understand that it was in the original, but ...

Because as you said, it was too comfortable. In all instances of X-Com mods, instant grenades practically invalidate other weapons and allow for way too much precision. A grenade is not a bullet and it shouldn't pretend to be one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: leekall on June 14, 2018, 11:14:50 am
Torklan, I don't know exactly what is wrong with your save. But the error log you posted contains references to researches that certainly does not exist in X-Com Files, like STR_SYNTHETIC_MUSCLES, STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_AA_CLIP etc. (though they existed at some point in the past). So I'm sure your install is broken somehow.

EDIT: No, you were right :D The Power Suit sprite was broken for hybrids. Sorry!
(Still no idea about these researches, though)
ok thank for your help I will try to restart the game over to is if that will fix it. the hybrids I'll just wait for a patch before using them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 14, 2018, 11:41:48 am
ok thank for your help I will try to restart the game over to is if that will fix it. the hybrids I'll just wait for a patch before using them.

For now you can simply not give the Power Suit to hybrids. Again, really sorry about that... Big updates like adding a new soldier type tend to have elusive bugs like this one.
I will release an update soon, I just want to finish the Zombie arc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 14, 2018, 08:22:52 pm
I just tested a mission with a white coat (asylum).  ???
That's awesome! Music... monsters...
Bravo !  8)
But my God, these monsters are indestructible!  :D
There must be a trick to neutralizing them!  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Niewiem on June 14, 2018, 08:45:18 pm
I think electric dmg works quite well. I would guess that fire will also work well
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 14, 2018, 10:43:08 pm
Version 0.9.1 has been released!

- New units: Giant Rat, Bullfrog, Reptoid Shadow, The Pharaoh.
- New item: Skull Staff.
- New UFO: Light Fighter.
- New tank armor: Medical Drone.
- Finished Zombie arc.
- Reviewed and expanded melee hit sounds.
- Ultra Chryssalid is faster.
- Fixed armor destruction by miniguns.
- Plasma weapons set things on fire and cause more wounds.
- PSG-1 has slightly faster snap shot.
- Tanks can now be taken to Dimension X (all) and sewers (small only).
- Removed Railyard from potential terrains for "Arrest the Suspects" missions (due to pathing problems on such a small map).
- Fixed Hybrid Power Suit crashing the game in battlescape.
- Fixed colours on Cyberweb arc outro.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BlackStaff on June 15, 2018, 01:13:43 am
I think electric dmg works quite well. I would guess that fire will also work well
Electric yes... fire... bof !
The ideal is to have many Hybrid Agents armed with tazer and electric baton!  ;)   ;D
Not to forget the "coup de grâce" because these monsters sometimes wake up!  8)



Thanks for new version !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: tkzv on June 16, 2018, 01:09:40 pm
Plasma sets things on fire, creates smoke, makes 1997 UFO missions so much easier!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: HT on June 16, 2018, 02:41:10 pm
Version 0.9.1 has been released!

-- Finished Zombie arc.
- Fixed Hybrid Power Suit crashing the game in battlescape.

Finally, at long last! I gave it a quick spin and there's little data about the "final boss" of the arc besides the outro.
In fact, it's a bit disappointing the unit itself compared with the other super-undead, although the large army the dude has compensates somewhat. I expected it to be surprised by a "metro-sexual" undead like the matriarchs, not an ugly dude with a
cape. I still got a different kind of surprise, so to speak.  Nevertheless, I'll continue the campaign at some point.

As for the Hybrid Power Suits, do these include the armored power loaders? The "ultimate" yellowish armor I mean.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 16, 2018, 04:33:52 pm
I allowed myself to put a spoiler tag in your post on something that is the motherfucking arc finale. :P

And I think you haven't yet realized everything about that unit... ;)

As for the Hybrid Power Suits, do these include the armored power loaders? The "ultimate" yellowish armor I mean.

Sure - they can use all the armours humans can.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: mrbiasha on June 17, 2018, 02:20:54 am
Well, what to say? Since the first time I downloaded this mod it became only bigger and better, and each new version makes you to wait the next one. Amazing work as usual Solarius! Hope you'll make even more improvements on late game!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: tkzv on June 17, 2018, 05:24:51 am
Hi!
What should be the settings of the game, so as not to overlap the mod? "Advanced", "Mods", etc.
Interesting!
So, if I understood correctly, you preferred the "hand-to-hand combat" option (punch) and you don't want to activate (make) the "melee with a weapon" options?
It's been discussed last autumn. Melee is doable, but making it balanced would require too much effort.
I made a mod that was compatible with XCF: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5719.0.html . The latest version of the mod has been generated from version 0.9.1, but I haven't tested it.
It was an experiment. Damage values need to be tuned. Besides, I did something wrong and can't tell the difference between stun and kill. Anyway, it worked, but since there was no feedback, I haven't done anything since then.


Two Three Four unrelated questions about X-COM Files:

1. In the caves I encountered a pit. What is there for? To fall in and stay until the end of the mission?

2. What is the intended behaviour of Osiron in the beach mission? Right now they shoot at agents with clubs and ignore agents with surfboards. Except that one goon still shot once when all agents had boards.

3. The "Big Bone" is described as possibly belonging to a dinosaur. Why aren't they sure? As far as I know, a professional biologist would easily tell a mammal from a dinosaur bone. Is it new or fossilized? If it's a fossil, perhaps the description should say so. If it's a fresh bone from a giant reptile, say, some reptoid pet, perhaps the description should be more surprised?
Quote
A strange bone, found in the caves. It looks like it belonged to a theropod dinosaur. The strange part is that the animal was alive less than a year ago.

4. Black Lotus Party and Police Anti-Monster operation expired way too quickly, in about 1 day. Did you shorten the time? Earlier the same missions waited long enough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: BBHood217 on June 17, 2018, 05:11:41 pm
- Finished Zombie arc.

It's time.

...or it would be if I wasn't in the middle of playing Piratez right now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 18, 2018, 12:02:39 pm
It's not really ready yet. Actually, I'd say it's more of a demo than a full version. I have maybe 80% of things done, hence the 0.8.X number. Still, it's playable and offers a lot of new content already.

My hands itch to start to play anew ... but I'll probably wait when 99% is done :)
Thank you for the cool game!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 18, 2018, 12:14:58 pm
My hands itch to start to play anew ... but I'll probably wait when 99% is done :)
Thank you for the cool game!

Well now it's definitely more complete... 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9 alpha: Fists of Fury
Post by: Dr.Crowley on June 18, 2018, 12:17:43 pm
Version 0.9.1 has been released!

Geez, I will never complete my walkthrough! ;D
Sadly, there is some truth here - I lost another laptop, so all I have to do now is to use my old "junk pile" notebook with XCF v.0.6.8b (this is where most of my unfinished works are resting, how ironical). Since I cannot properly play Doom online (this "junk pile" does not support even OpenGL 2.0), I guess I will switch back to spending my free time playing OXC and trying to finish the prototypes of USO and Project Xenocide.

Oh, and seeing the Zombies arc finally complete - wow, I really want to see it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: tkzv on June 20, 2018, 01:28:19 am
Since many stats of weapons have been moved to a separate page, is it possible to display weapon mass there too?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: heavy disruptor beam on June 20, 2018, 11:38:49 pm
Is there any hope of this ever being available on MacOS?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: Meridian on June 20, 2018, 11:39:49 pm
Is there any hope of this ever being available on MacOS?

This can be played on MacOS too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 20, 2018, 11:52:33 pm
Version 0.9.2 has been released.

- Updated to newest OXCE+ version.
- New items: Elerium Explosive, Alien Alloy Shrapnel Charge.
- New staff input (by legionof1).
- Renamed damage type Melee to Cutting, for consistency.
- Some items can be produced without a Workshop (but you still need some work stations).
- Hangar provides 5 work stations.
- AWACS is cheaper.
- Buffed auto shot accuracy on both BlackOps rifles.
- Light Pistol and Spypistol can now be taken to the Ski Resort.
- Drone Meds can now train Bravery.
- Slightly decreased chances for Zombie infestations.
- Enemies with melee weapons should now use them properly.
- Fixed Medical Drone production.
- Fixed Auto Cannon clip sizes.
- Fixed Stormies Crib.
- Fixed boulders everywhere.
- Fixed POLARBITS.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 21, 2018, 10:15:03 am
Thank you!
Which means:
[classified]: 1%
[classified]: 0%
?
Are these secret X-Files?  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2018, 11:49:24 am
Thank you!
Which means:
[classified]: 1%
[classified]: 0%
?
Are these secret X-Files?  :)

It means it's so classified that I'm not even sure if they will be in the game. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Fiskun1 on June 21, 2018, 12:11:29 pm
It means it's so classified that I'm not even sure if they will be in the game. :D

You have very intrigued me)
I keep looking at these percentages and postpone the beginning of a new game to wait for a new patch.
And this can turn into an endless process  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: BlackStaff on June 21, 2018, 07:49:26 pm
I know I suck!
The proof: here's a suck question!  :'(
I made medical drones.
But how do we get them on a plane? They don't appear anywhere (crew, equipment)!
Is this possible or are they only useful in the base?  :-[
Tks !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on June 21, 2018, 08:30:08 pm
Medical drones are "armor" for AI units (the scout drone).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2 alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2018, 08:32:24 pm
I know I suck!
The proof: here's a suck question!  :'(
I made medical drones.
But how do we get them on a plane? They don't appear anywhere (crew, equipment)!
Is this possible or are they only useful in the base?  :-[
Tks !

Ninja'd by Otto :)

Also, I screwed up 0.9.2 (of course) by wrecking alien shields... Please replace the files with the ones attached. I will also load a full fixed version in a few minutes, but replacing these three files will be enough.

EDIT: 0.9.2b uploaded. If you haven't downleaded 0.9.2 yet, use it; otherwise you can just get the files attached here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: heavy disruptor beam on June 21, 2018, 11:34:49 pm
This can be played on MacOS too.

can you point a nincompoop to method? I tried replacing the contents of my Open Xcom Package to no avail (error is can't run windows based OpenXcomExPlus.exe)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.1 alpha: The Shadow Pharaoh
Post by: Meridian on June 21, 2018, 11:47:50 pm
can you point a nincompoop to method? I tried replacing the contents of my Open Xcom Package to no avail (error is can't run windows based OpenXcomExPlus.exe)

There is a MacOS game engine available for download here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html
(I hope it works, I couldn't test it really myself)

Then you can take just the raw mod ("XComFiles" directory) and install it like any other smaller mod... i.e. ignoring the "full package" which is pre-prepared for Windows users.

PS: As a MacOS-noob myself, I can't give you a better/easier method... but good luck... and let us know if it worked for you

PS2: But I can definitely confirm it is possible to run it... I run it from dev environment, with the mod, without any issues... on my MacBook... I just don't know how to prepare a portable installation package for others... the one on the download page was not made by me
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: heavy disruptor beam on June 22, 2018, 12:28:41 am
Success!

- copy linked MacOS build above (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html)
- copy "user" folder from "OpenXcom_XFiles/ to "OpenXcom/Contents/Resources/"
- activate mod from splash screen "options"
- wait awhile for it to load up


Time for sleep, but look forward to trying it out 8-)


PS I've not tested it, but the mod loads up. Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Bugs, crashes, typos &amp; bad taste
Post by: mumble on June 24, 2018, 05:32:48 am
Still a little behind in updates, but I noticed a massive flaw in my gameplay : researching advanced medicine / biolabs is somewhat crucial to moving forward...might I suggest something in promotion 2 requirements that requires a biolab, for "better understanding extra terrestrial threat", hinting at studying advanced medical techniques? Because the extra 5 scientists in the biolab is absolutely crucial to advancing, and putting it on the backburner SEVERELY hampers a run. The longer you wait to get biolab, the worse off you get!

I also have a few ideas for blackops guns : first, since the minebae SMG is so advanced, could we get an option to share the information with blackops for a blackops SMG MB? a hybrid of the blackops smg, and minebae tech? Could also take a hit from the council, and give an advantage to groups (such a leak might give various cultists the original minebae, especially black lotus, and might even buff men in black who start using them). The spy pistol could use another 1 or 2 damage to make it more notably different from the light pistol in power....and could we get a blackops version of the snubnose revolver? I really prefer the tiny, low capacity, but high power of the snubnose (26 damage is far more respectable than 20) but sadly theres no improved version of it for the blackops brand...slightly more accurate and something like 29 damage per round.

I also notice that sometimes enemies prefer using fists over melee weapons, like a farmer punching my agent with an ax in hand : this makes attacks much easier to survive, but I can't help but figure lethal force would be preferred.

Also I had a thought of how to balance ninjas : could you multiply the effective camo range by energy levels? So it would work for an initial pounce, but after energy starts going away, its less effective?

EDIT : piss, I meant to put this in main thread. Move stuff at your discretion, sorry.  :-X

Oh also, considering theres movement towards having low end manufacturing jobs, like stripping crazed gunmen of kevlar, any chance we could get the XCOM HQ to include a VERY small manufacturing area, and a single engineer?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 24, 2018, 03:05:58 pm
Still a little behind in updates, but I noticed a massive flaw in my gameplay : researching advanced medicine / biolabs is somewhat crucial to moving forward...might I suggest something in promotion 2 requirements that requires a biolab, for "better understanding extra terrestrial threat", hinting at studying advanced medical techniques? Because the extra 5 scientists in the biolab is absolutely crucial to advancing, and putting it on the backburner SEVERELY hampers a run. The longer you wait to get biolab, the worse off you get!

How is this a "massive flaw", or any sort of flaw?
Just pick your researches in a non-random way, eh? Use the viewer? You know, like everyone else?

I also have a few ideas for blackops guns : first, since the minebae SMG is so advanced, could we get an option to share the information with blackops for a blackops SMG MB?

Sure, let's also share with them the data on AK-47 and M-16. I'm sure BlackOps will be delighted, as they have never seen these weapons before!

The spy pistol could use another 1 or 2 damage to make it more notably different from the light pistol in power....

The Spypistol has many other advantages over the light pistol. A damage buff would be illogical - it's very small, how would you achieve damage as good as in a standard pistol?

and could we get a blackops version of the snubnose revolver? I really prefer the tiny, low capacity, but high power of the snubnose (26 damage is far more respectable than 20) but sadly theres no improved version of it for the blackops brand...slightly more accurate and something like 29 damage per round.

29 damage would be as much as the standard BlackOps Pistol, which is twice as big.
BlackOps may be technologically advanced, but it still uses the same gunpowder as everyone else.

I also notice that sometimes enemies prefer using fists over melee weapons, like a farmer punching my agent with an ax in hand : this makes attacks much easier to survive, but I can't help but figure lethal force would be preferred.

Yes, it was a bug in the code, but it should be fixed now.

Also I had a thought of how to balance ninjas : could you multiply the effective camo range by energy levels? So it would work for an initial pounce, but after energy starts going away, its less effective?

No, such advanced mechanics aren't possible.

EDIT : piss, I meant to put this in main thread. Move stuff at your discretion, sorry.  :-X

No worries, done.

Oh also, considering theres movement towards having low end manufacturing jobs, like stripping crazed gunmen of kevlar, any chance we could get the XCOM HQ to include a VERY small manufacturing area, and a single engineer?

Not the HQ, it's cramped as it is. Too many functions on a building make the interface confusing. Hangars/garages are fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: mumble on June 24, 2018, 04:35:37 pm
Massive flaw in that, I get horribly behind in research...I waited til late promotion 1 to even get advanced medicine. This run, I highballed toward advancement, but also screwed myself in getting mutant metabolism late : was it recently changed that chupacabras, large bugs, and other stuff didn't count towards it? Kinda frustrating. And a little RNG heavy for my liking... But in the end these are all my fault. Thats what I mean by flaw : flaw in my own gameplay.  :(

Hey, I figured the minebae was a, somewhat, trade secret : blackops has a lot of money, but this kinda stuff is pretty secretive, I'd figure....then again we find that before combat armor. Guess not. But still kiryu kai was supposedly NEVER covered by news, and all elements of it were a secret. XCOM is a little different mind you, but I figure its a coin flip this data being either lost in a remote area of japan, in a government base, or as you think, on an obscure end of the free market : if so, I think such a gun would be fitting for black lotus warriors honestly, considering they are a little easy (Alternatively, maybe give them either berserk AI, or just more aggression...they seem really shy).

I was under the impression the spy pistol, and all blackops guns used a better powder, or at least pistols : the smg, pistol, all seem marginally more effective. Even if not gunpowder, it could be proprietary slugs inside the rounds. Heavier, or with a painstakingly engineered shape.

I still think a blackops mini revolver would be good. 20-21 damage is really pushing it after promotion 2, and even if it was just a 27 damage mini revolver (1 more than snubnose) it would be very nice to have. I was going to suggest a blackops tier double barrel too, but...nevermind.

If nothing else, hmmn...how about making a specific form of "storage area" similar to the HQ, with a small manufacturing zone (no bigger than 5) and perhaps being necessary for some tasks like HQ? Have it replace starting storage.... just a thought. Would be interesting to have small, but meaningful jobs, sawing off shotguns (I honestly think small shotgun should be made a later game item, seems a little OP, being 1 handed and 1x2 for quickdraw. It outdoes the kludge in many ways, and you have it at the start) Combining leather and kevlar for a bulky, but marginally more effective armor, or, possibly making simple, but custom rounds (poor mans dragon breath with steel wool, wax slugs for a highly inaccurate stun round, ect)....I suppose its more a pipe dream, but still.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 24, 2018, 04:50:21 pm
Massive flaw in that, I get horribly behind in research...I waited til late promotion 1 to even get advanced medicine. This run, I highballed toward advancement, but also screwed myself in getting mutant metabolism late : was it recently changed that chupacabras, large bugs, and other stuff didn't count towards it? Kinda frustrating. And a little RNG heavy for my liking... But in the end these are all my fault. Thats what I mean by flaw : flaw in my own gameplay.  :(

I'm happy you find it challenging, but still no idea how it's a bad thing.
If you couldn't make bad decisions, why would we need selectable research in the first place???

Hey, I figured the minebae was a, somewhat, trade secret : blackops has a lot of money, but this kinda stuff is pretty secretive, I'd figure....

But what's so special about yet another Uzi variant??? Uzi is half a century old, even though some variants (like the Minebea) are newer.

then again we find that before combat armor. Guess not. But still kiryu kai was supposedly NEVER covered by news, and all elements of it were a secret. XCOM is a little different mind you, but I figure its a coin flip this data being either lost in a remote area of japan, in a government base, or as you think, on an obscure end of the free market : if so, I think such a gun would be fitting for black lotus warriors honestly, considering they are a little easy (Alternatively, maybe give them either berserk AI, or just more aggression...they seem really shy).

Are you playing with the Sneaky AI option on?

I was under the impression the spy pistol, and all blackops guns used a better powder, or at least pistols : the smg, pistol, all seem marginally more effective. Even if not gunpowder, it could be proprietary slugs inside the rounds. Heavier, or with a painstakingly engineered shape.

I am not a world class expert in explosives, but I seriously doubt manufacturers use gunpowder different enough to warrant changes in base power...
And of course engineering is always important, but in order to gain an improvement somewhere, you need to sacrifice something else... That's why the Nitro Express is so powerful, but also bad at armour, etc.

I still think a blackops mini revolver would be good. 20-21 damage is really pushing it after promotion 2, and even if it was just a 27 damage mini revolver (1 more than snubnose) it would be very nice to have. I was going to suggest a blackops tier double barrel too, but...nevermind.

It's an OK suggestion. I will think about it.

If nothing else, hmmn...how about making a specific form of "storage area" similar to the HQ, with a small manufacturing zone (no bigger than 5) and perhaps being necessary for some tasks like HQ? Have it replace starting storage.... just a thought.

Yet another building? To what purpose? Are you dissatisfied with 10 manufacturing spaces at game start? What are you going to do there, strip hundreds of EXALT operatives all the time???

Would be interesting to have small, but meaningful jobs, sawing off shotguns (I honestly think small shotgun should be made a later game item, seems a little OP, being 1 handed and 1x2 for quickdraw. It outdoes the kludge in many ways, and you have it at the start) Combining leather and kevlar for a bulky, but marginally more effective armor, or, possibly making simple, but custom rounds (poor mans dragon breath with steel wool, wax slugs for a highly inaccurate stun round, ect)....I suppose its more a pipe dream, but still.

Ah, now I get it. Sure, we could go in that direction, but that's like starting a whole new aspect of the mod for no other practical advantage than strangling the player with micromanagement. This isn't Piratez, we are an official organization and we use authorized equipment... most of the time. We aren't sawing off shotgun barrels, FFS.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: mumble on June 25, 2018, 04:22:27 am
I'm still in 9.1, but searching the tech tree, I cannot find anything leading up to heavy cannons with magma, and when I played it before, despite capturing a live zombie trooper, I got nothing...was it something with the syndicate I needed?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on June 25, 2018, 04:39:09 am
I'm still in 9.1, but searching the tech tree, I cannot find anything leading up to heavy cannons with magma, and when I played it before, despite capturing a live zombie trooper, I got nothing...was it something with the syndicate I needed?

No, it's still with MAGMA, but you need to do a certain mission to unlock it; that's how all of MAGMA's unlocks work except for the Thrasher.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: mumble on June 25, 2018, 05:11:01 am
I get that, but for the life of me, WHAT MISSION? Post it in spoilers if you need, because I'm lost, and starting to think its a bug, especially since I've never seen a streamer use heavy / auto cannon, and I love auto cannons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: ohartenstein23 on June 25, 2018, 05:18:25 am
I've unlocked them, it just takes a while to get the right missions. If you're using the tech tree viewer, look up "Message from M.A.G.M.A. No. <some number here>," those are what unlock the missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: mumble on June 25, 2018, 10:58:17 pm
I suppose I worded that poorly : I mean, when doing the magma lab mission, WHAT am I supposed to research after? What specific event leads to these unlocking? ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: swivelchair on June 26, 2018, 09:15:07 am
What does Std. Lab stand for? I need it to research Alien Alloy Welding but I dont know what it stands for and how to research it so I can build it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 26, 2018, 12:08:07 pm
I suppose I worded that poorly : I mean, when doing the magma lab mission, WHAT am I supposed to research after? What specific event leads to these unlocking? ???

Just research anything you find there. I did not make it complicated.

What does Std. Lab stand for? I need it to research Alien Alloy Welding but I dont know what it stands for and how to research it so I can build it.

Standard lab is mostly for mid-level engineering. I honestly don't remember if the Welder requires it or something better - either way is possible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: HT on June 26, 2018, 11:06:00 pm
I get that, but for the life of me, WHAT MISSION? Post it in spoilers if you need, because I'm lost, and starting to think its a bug, especially since I've never seen a streamer use heavy / auto cannon, and I love auto cannons.

First, you want to do the infamous Magma Lab with zombies. After that and researching the Magma messages' techs, you'll sooner or later get more MAGMA missions. These are thankfully easier, and each one will unlock new stuff, from new tech, to the Autocannon at last. They show up more often if you're already fighting against The Syndicate, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: swivelchair on June 27, 2018, 02:10:22 am
Just research anything you find there. I did not make it complicated.

Standard lab is mostly for mid-level engineering. I honestly don't remember if the Welder requires it or something better - either way is possible.

Okay thanks. Thats strange I actually have a lab and a improved lab and its not letting me do it, maybe i'm overlooking something else. Anyway, thanks

--- posts merged ---

Oh lol, I didnt have a welder to study. I thought I was just researching a potential item not examining an already existing thing. Sorry for the confusion, thanks
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Martin on July 01, 2018, 12:50:58 pm
The RNG can be pretty extreme at times. This playthrough I have’t seen a single infector zombie till december 1998.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.2b alpha: Workers Unite!
Post by: Absle on July 06, 2018, 05:16:14 pm
Hey Solarius, I really love your other mod FMP and just discovered the X-Com Files today. I'm excited to try it out, but while I'm doing that I was wondering if there was a compare-and-contrast with FMP somewhere? Obviously this mod adds a lot more gameplay elements than FMP, which was more about just piling in cool content and finding a way to balance it all, but I really enjoy the shear amount of content FMP has. Does X-Com Files, in it's current alpha state, have a lot of the same stuff FMP has in it (e.g. weapon/ship/equipment variety, gauss weapons, more sensible tech tree, etc.) How would you compare them in general?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 11, 2018, 08:41:35 pm
Hey Solarius, I really love your other mod FMP and just discovered the X-Com Files today. I'm excited to try it out, but while I'm doing that I was wondering if there was a compare-and-contrast with FMP somewhere? Obviously this mod adds a lot more gameplay elements than FMP, which was more about just piling in cool content and finding a way to balance it all, but I really enjoy the shear amount of content FMP has. Does X-Com Files, in it's current alpha state, have a lot of the same stuff FMP has in it (e.g. weapon/ship/equipment variety, gauss weapons, more sensible tech tree, etc.) How would you compare them in general?

Hello and thanks for the kind words.
X-Com Files contain the entirety of FMP, with some changes. It also contains a whole lot of other stuff and a completely different design of the campaign. So you can say that XCF is FMP 2.0 on drugs. :)

EDIT:

Version 0.9.3 has been released.

- Updated to the newest version of OXCE+.
- Added unique combat analysis articles for enemy types.
- New weapon: Napalm Grenade (Incendiary Grenade was depowered).
- New unit: Zombie Boomer.
- Added indicator for system shock (losing HP due to overstun), icon by Ivan Dogovich.
- Zombies now also yield Zombie parasites on processing.
- Shadowbats are now vampiric.
- Thunderstorm got another Heavy Missile hardpoint instead of its Cannon hardpoint.
- MiG and Arrow can't land. Pickup now has 5 soldier spaces.
- Plasma and fusion weapons calibration now requires Advanced Laboratory.
- BlackOps Rifle has faster aimed shot and longer snap range.
- BlackOps Assault Rifle has slightly slower auto shot.
- Mosin Rifle has worse snap accuracy.
- Some pistol ammo has worse armor penetration.
- All incendiary ammo should now decrease morale like other flame attacks.
- Fixed and improved plasma blade weapons.
- Depowered Holodrone weapon.
- Renamed Medi-Gas Grenade to Knockout Grenade for clarity.
- New sprites for BlackOps SMG and BlackOps Shotgun (by Dioxine).
- New Cult Base map (Tavern, by Dioxine).
- More treasure in Cyberweb Manufacturing.
- New background for the Black Lotus missions.
- Added Edinburgh.
- Language updates.
- Reviewed experience training from certain weapons.
- Fixed GL incendiary round.
- Fixed Arasaka and Asuka ammo granting too much Stun damage.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Meridian on July 11, 2018, 10:29:51 pm
- Added Edinburgh.

Aye chief, aboot time. Have been waiting for yonks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 11, 2018, 10:59:41 pm
Aye chief, aboot time. Have been waiting for yonks!

Well, Gingerfork complained... :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 11, 2018, 11:47:33 pm
I replaced the mod, loaded a Battlescape save and all live enemies disappeared and all stunned enemies became dead.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Meridian on July 11, 2018, 11:48:57 pm
I think I repeated like 3000+ times already... don't upgrade during battlescape.
All in vain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 12, 2018, 12:13:59 am
I think I repeated like 3000+ times already... don't upgrade during battlescape.
All in vain.
I've never seen this warning :) Not much of a problem, reverted to the old mod and finished it.

Alien Drone Combat Analysis has a wrong picture.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2018, 12:19:36 am
Alien Drone Combat Analysis has a wrong picture.

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 12, 2018, 10:40:18 am
Researching Elerium ammunition for conventional weapons displays no Ufopaedia article.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2018, 11:51:19 am
Researching Elerium ammunition for conventional weapons displays no Ufopaedia article.

WTF is Elerium ammunition?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 12, 2018, 12:05:22 pm
Thanks for the update!
With interest I wait, when percent will be updated and there will be names in
[classified]: 1%
[classified]: 0%
 ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 12, 2018, 01:11:18 pm
WTF is Elerium ammunition?
Stuff like 45-mm Elerium grenade. I haven't tried making or using any of those yet, they have no Ufopaedia pages, only research items, so I may be wrong.

On unrelated note: I really liked the rename for "alien alloy ammo".
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: KZad Bhat on July 12, 2018, 02:08:06 pm
Well hell, just naming it Napalm Death was a good move, you attracted my eye! Might start running through this one too . . . especially since I bet I'm not finish Piratez any time soon, anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2018, 03:31:21 pm
Stuff like 45-mm Elerium grenade. I haven't tried making or using any of those yet, they have no Ufopaedia pages, only research items, so I may be wrong.

Well, ammo usually doesn't have its own Pedia pages... Or am I misunderstanding?

On unrelated note: I really liked the rename for "alien alloy ammo".

Well hell, just naming it Napalm Death was a good move, you attracted my eye! Might start running through this one too . . . especially since I bet I'm not finish Piratez any time soon, anyway.


Great! I should reward my naming department (which is myself) with a beer!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 12, 2018, 04:51:09 pm
Well, ammo usually doesn't have its own Pedia pages... Or am I misunderstanding?
Some ammo that required extra research did get separate pages, at least in older versions. (I paid no attention to it in 0.9.2.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 12, 2018, 07:43:20 pm
Some ammo that required extra research did get separate pages, at least in older versions. (I paid no attention to it in 0.9.2.)

Yeah, plasma and sonic ammo, due to legacy/X-Com tradition/specific lore. But mostly no.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: HT on July 12, 2018, 10:01:03 pm
Wow, another update already? I didn't even have time to play the last one!
Worse, what little time I have these days I play Conan: The Dark Axe, a classic/obscure game that was only known in Europe and little else. Perhaps after that though...


EDIT:
- Added unique combat analysis articles for enemy types.

Cool. Is that the thing Piratez had for a while already? If so, about time. Hopefully it will automatically give me the stats of the enemies I encountered so far, instead of having to research said analysis.

- New weapon: Napalm Grenade (Incendiary Grenade was depowered).

Well frak. Is that grenade an Elerium-produced one? I was content with incendiary grenades and replacing everything will be a pain, nevermind considering the new explosives too.
That reminds me: Do Napalm grenades cause extra incendiary damage like the Willie Pete grenades in Piratez?

- Zombies now also yield Zombie parasites on processing.

Explosive zombies, because they weren't annoying enough! Also, what use did you have with zombie parasites once you researched one? I don't recall being useful except for selling.

- MiG and Arrow can't land. Pickup now has 5 soldier spaces.

Why cannot they land?

- Plasma and fusion weapons calibration now requires Advanced Laboratory.

What happens if you already researched plasma weapons?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 12, 2018, 10:26:37 pm
I don't know how it should work, but I can tell how it worked for me.
Hopefully it will automatically give me the stats of the enemies I encountered so far, instead of having to research said analysis.
Yes, it worked that way. Next midnight I got a report that research on those topics was finished and nothing else, but Ufopaedia pages were added.

Why cannot they land?
I guess, for added realism. MiG-31 is very picky about its runways, and Arrow probably isn't better. Unlike everything else, which is stated to be VTOL or cars. Even allowing them on a secret X-COM base is a stretch, since it would require building a very visible runway :)

What happens if you already researched plasma weapons?
You keep what you already had.
P.S. Only calibration requires Advanced Lab. The weapons themselves can be researched with only Improved Lab.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: legionof1 on July 13, 2018, 02:37:06 am
Some ammo that required extra research did get separate pages, at least in older versions. (I paid no attention to it in 0.9.2.)

this usually only happens if the ammo either needs extensive explanation and has a page to itself, or if it is the first one you get of an additional page containing multiple types 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: tkzv on July 13, 2018, 03:02:58 am
this usually only happens if the ammo either needs extensive explanation and has a page to itself, or if it is the first one you get of an additional page containing multiple types
I was talking about the latter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 13, 2018, 02:01:17 pm
Yes napalm grenades work like the Willy Pete from Piratez (and the Incendiary Grenade up until now).
No, it does not require Elerium, only Promo III and Explosives License.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: swivelchair on July 15, 2018, 09:00:25 am
What is the best source of Elerium? Honestly I cant find any extraction source that I can get enough of so I am slowly running out, I really need to power my avenger, It is my only real way of keeping the alien base attacks under control. I got alot at the start from, actually i dont remember exactly where from but im definitely not finding enough now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: legionof1 on July 15, 2018, 02:31:52 pm
The most consistent source of elerium is from landed UFOs or intact engines of shot down ufos.

Beyond that it sounds as if your trying to defend against retaliations in the air, which is a losing proposition. Shooting down the UFO attacking the base only delays the assault. The mission remains active until something engages the base. Delay to many retaliations and they will keep stacking up until you are overwhelmed. Its far better to just let the occasional retaliation hit your bases and deal with them either with defense facilities or ground combat.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Thunderwing280 on July 18, 2018, 04:15:46 pm
Hi. First I want to say that I'm loving the modpack and I hope it gets even better! But I have some questions/ suggestions:

First how about adding flashbangs into the game which could be a early unlock?

Currently I'm struggleing to get to promotion 3 because of me not capturing live cultists, any tips?

Is the dart rifle of any use to gets stuns too?

Also I am a noob at installing and editing mods, how do I update the pack without losing my saves? I tried it once and I don't if it worked.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: HT on July 18, 2018, 08:19:49 pm
First how about adding flashbangs into the game which could be a early unlock?

Currently I'm struggleing to get to promotion 3 because of me not capturing live cultists, any tips?

Is the dart rifle of any use to gets stuns too?

Also I am a noob at installing and editing mods, how do I update the pack without losing my saves? I tried it once and I don't if it worked.

How did you survive for so long without capturing enough people? I suppose you meant you have trouble capturing cultists? Use ninja sticks, fists, stun batons and cattle-prods if you have them. Dart weaponry is very good and works for that quite well. Flashbangs I'm not sure if there are here, but they do in Piratez, ironically enough. Lastly, for updating, copy-paste the new files without worry about changes unless the author mentions otherwise. Also, DON'T LOAD A BATTLESCAPE MAP AFTER THE UPDATE!!!
I recommend loading an "end-of-the-month" save to be sure the new month rolls in and all new changes are correctly implemented.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Thunderwing280 on July 18, 2018, 11:02:02 pm
How did you survive for so long without capturing enough people? I suppose you meant you have trouble capturing cultists? Use ninja sticks, fists, stun batons and cattle-prods if you have them. Dart weaponry is very good and works for that quite well. Flashbangs I'm not sure if there are here, but they do in Piratez, ironically enough. Lastly, for updating, copy-paste the new files without worry about changes unless the author mentions otherwise. Also, DON'T LOAD A BATTLESCAPE MAP AFTER THE UPDATE!!!
I recommend loading an "end-of-the-month" save to be sure the new month rolls in and all new changes are correctly implemented.

Thanks for the tips, btw I lasted till about 2000 with promotion 2 only with UAC and Blackops Rifles. I feel like I've barely even gotten deep into the game. But what is a good time to get promotion 3? I can get to 2 within a year though, is that any good?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 19, 2018, 12:11:43 am
Hi. First I want to say that I'm loving the modpack and I hope it gets even better! But I have some questions/ suggestions:

Hello! And thanks a lot!

First how about adding flashbangs into the game which could be a early unlock?

The only viable way would be to add a grenade which doesn't damage health but time units. But time units are fully recovered at the beginning of the turn. So the only thing you could achieve with this concept is denying them reaction shots in your own turn... Still something.

Currently I'm struggleing to get to promotion 3 because of me not capturing live cultists, any tips?

Use stunning weapons - that's obvious. If you have problems, try to wound the target, kill or panic everyone else and wait until the target drops unconscious - most of the time they will survive. But also try to heal people with medikits - as an added bonus you will train Bravery.

Is the dart rifle of any use to gets stuns too?

Yes, it's a stun weapon (for now; I plan to change it a bit).

Also I am a noob at installing and editing mods, how do I update the pack without losing my saves? I tried it once and I don't if it worked.

The easiest way is to unpack everything into a new folder and only move the vanilla game files and the save.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on July 28, 2018, 06:49:43 pm
Question about gauss. I have gauss from reptoids mission. There are no new researches. Were can I view gauss specs?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Thunderwing280 on July 30, 2018, 01:38:15 am
Question about gauss. I have gauss from reptoids mission. There are no new researches. Were can I view gauss specs?

I believe you have to research gauss weapons to get the specs but a cheeky way to find them is to make a custom battle and flick through the UFOpedia pages when you middle click and get the specs that way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on July 30, 2018, 05:34:38 pm
I just looked over the stats of the Napalm grenade, and as far as i can tell it's average damaged seems to be worse than the normal incendiary grenade.

- Napalm has a base damage of 40, and can do anywhere from 20 to 60 damage (50%-150%) and has a blast radius of 3
- Incendiary has a base damge of 60, with 0 to 120 damage (0% - 200%) and has a blast radius of 6 iirc

In what scenario would the napalm grenade outclass the normal incendiary grenade? Am i missing something here?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: ohartenstein23 on July 30, 2018, 05:44:54 pm
You're forgetting that incendiary damage does not do the listed power by default, it's only used for the blast radius.  If you look in the "INFO" section of the 'pedia articles, you'll see that the incendiary grenade only does 5-10 damage on hit and has a radius of 3.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on July 30, 2018, 06:41:02 pm
You're forgetting that incendiary damage does not do the listed power by default, it's only used for the blast radius.  If you look in the "INFO" section of the 'pedia articles, you'll see that the incendiary grenade only does 5-10 damage on hit and has a radius of 3.
Would you mind posting the stats you're referring to? I don't see the 5-10 on hit damage nor the blast radius of 3 on my info screen. The debug screen shows Power:60 Blast radius:-1 and calculation type:vanilla default.

As far as i can tell from testing, the napalm grenade ddoes marginally more damage than the incendiary, but with a decreased radius.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: ohartenstein23 on July 30, 2018, 06:59:01 pm
Hmm, it looks like they're not showing in the INFO section properly.  The "vanilla default" for incendiary is 5-10 damage, anything other than that for fire weapons is modded and will show up properly.  The "FireBlastCalc" determines how incendiary explosives turn power into radius; the default for area-of-effect weapons is 1 tile per 10 power, but incendiary damage type has half this radius.  These calculations are from the original game, so you can assume that any incendiary weapon will do this unless stated otherwise in the INFO section without any of the modifier buttons turned on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Meridian on July 30, 2018, 11:13:26 pm
Hmm, it looks like they're not showing in the INFO section properly.

screenshots?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: ohartenstein23 on July 30, 2018, 11:27:36 pm
I guess it's more a question of what the correct default is supposed to show for incendiary weapons, but here's what the damageAlter shows for the incendiary grenade.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on July 31, 2018, 12:06:45 am
I believe you have to research gauss weapons to get the specs but a cheeky way to find them is to make a custom battle and flick through the UFOpedia pages when you middle click and get the specs that way.
I guess 150 damage is the reason why they oneshoot my hovertank with full hp. Also plasma sniper (132 damage) has overnerfed snap accuracy. It is worse than heavy plasma. Laser snipe are op. Max out accuracy + assault armor and you never miss your snap shoot with 85 damage (+ inf ammo). As long target are not blocked by obstacles you can shoot it down with 127% accuracy without seeing the target through the whole map. Heavy laser are unusable garbage. Most of melle weapons get buff (armor debuff removed) but alien alloy sword are still not piercing armor.
Zombies have a weakness agains fire and elerium. What weapon do elerium damage?
I just updated and miniguns are nerfed :-\. Killing everything with 100% armor pre damage mult was fun :P.
Also can someone explain what armor stat on ammo do?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: ohartenstein23 on July 31, 2018, 12:31:18 am
"armor: <some number>" on any item simply means how much damage has to be done to them when they're on the ground in order to destroy the item.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on July 31, 2018, 09:45:15 pm
"armor: <some number>" on any item simply means how much damage has to be done to them when they're on the ground in order to destroy the item.
Thanks. Mansion defence mission. Your stuff are lies on the roof. And then they start throwing grenades in you. Items gone. Restart mission.
Vampire castle mission. Zombies spam in no doors rooms in basement. Niiiiice. Longest mission so far. ~150 turns to cut through walls with lasers.
Same zombie catacombs there sometimes no path to part of a map. Or even it can spam you in no door room. If you haven't inf ammo laser or plasma its abandon mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: legionof1 on August 01, 2018, 12:29:27 am
Yeah the roof of mansion spawn is pretty much the worst player spawn of anything in the mod. At least you only ever have to succeed on the council assignation once to progress the syndicate arc, and can ignore the exalt version as it is not necessary for progression.

Yeah anything caves tileset is very frustrating, but hey its getting addressed next version, we are getting pickaxes to tunnel through such problems.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 01, 2018, 01:06:45 pm
Yes, pickaxes are coming. :)
And I can move the stash downstairs if you want.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: legionof1 on August 01, 2018, 04:43:46 pm
The real problem with the mansion roof spawn is that the missions it happens on involve many foes with explosive primary weapons. Starting exposed and in view from multiple directions both inside and outside the building has a rather uncomfortably high chance of your first reaction triggering act causing your team to eat multiple grenades or rocket rounds. Rip team and item pile.

Its very similar to have a launcher dude faceing the ramp of the transport on spawn, except those you can evac and much less likely to occur cause the guy has to be right in from of the ramp facing the right way. In the mansion its one guy in about 1/2 half the map to ruin your day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on August 01, 2018, 04:50:49 pm
Its very similar to have a launcher dude faceing the ramp of the transport on spawn, except those you can evac and much less likely to occur cause the guy has to be right in from of the ramp facing the right way. In the mansion its one guy in about 1/2 half the map to ruin your day.
Then again, one lone dude with a rocket launcher facing your team is quite different from mutliple dudes with launchers facing your team. Taking out one guy with a launcher before he wipes out most of your agents only take a well placed shot if you're fortunate.

It's usually not the one dude with the launcher that kills you - it's the other dudes with launchers that reaction fire when you kill the first one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 01, 2018, 08:08:56 pm
OK, it took a lot of gymnastics, but I moved the stack to the ground floor.

(http://images.sanctuary-inc.net/aa7rejoice.png)

As a side effect, one person also spawns there, but I don't think it's a problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 01, 2018, 08:48:18 pm
Also Cyberweb final mission and 1 before it. You start right in map centrer surrounded by tens of enemies. Some of them have disruptor. Serioslyyyyy???? 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 01, 2018, 11:08:27 pm
Also Cyberweb final mission and 1 before it. You start right in map centrer surrounded by tens of enemies. Some of them have disruptor. Serioslyyyyy????

Balancing is in progress. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2018, 11:25:04 pm
Do you have any plans of letting us *outsource* additional equipment? Thinking especially of napalm grenades and the likes, maybe also additional alien alloy/tritanium ammunition?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 04, 2018, 01:06:51 am
Question about elerium damage. What that? What weapon?
Also what is the point in plasma weapon on hover tanks sectopods (laser sectopod even have better snapshot) if damage are same? There are 2 or 3 rare enemies which have weakness against plasma and strong against laser. Underwater not counting. Its actually better to have laser against enemy tanks. Setting on fire also pointless they dont survive to take even 1 turn damage from that. Standard zombie can 2 hit sectopod lol.
Also electronic slot on aircraft.  And what about this outsource aircraft making? How to use? Have the research and there are no changes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2018, 01:15:57 pm
Do you have any plans of letting us *outsource* additional equipment? Thinking especially of napalm grenades and the likes, maybe also additional alien alloy/tritanium ammunition?

You mean you'd like to buy them instead of producing them?
It could be done of course, but IMO we don't have manufacturing projects at that game stage.

Question about elerium damage. What that? What weapon?

At this point none, unfortunately. It's part of future weaponry.

Also what is the point in plasma weapon on hover tanks sectopods (laser sectopod even have better snapshot) if damage are same? There are 2 or 3 rare enemies which have weakness against plasma and strong against laser. Underwater not counting.

The damage is the same, everything else is different... You could say there's not enough variety in enemy armour, but that's a different subject.

Its actually better to have laser against enemy tanks. Setting on fire also pointless they dont survive to take even 1 turn damage from that. Standard zombie can 2 hit sectopod lol.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SECTOPOD_ARMOR
    (...)
    frontArmor: 145
    sideArmor: 130
    rearArmor: 100
    underArmor: 90

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ZOMBIE_WEAPON
    strengthApplied: true
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.3

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE_TERRORIST
    stats:
      strength: 84

I don't think so lol :)

Also electronic slot on aircraft.  And what about this outsource aircraft making? How to use? Have the research and there are no changes.

You need a craft with an ELECTRONICS slot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 04, 2018, 01:39:00 pm
But it happened though in mummy vs mummy map. Or it was fat zombie? Still standard or fat but kill with 2 hits. Maybe something wrong with stats in that mission.
I mean what is electronic? There no such item anywhere.  So how to build with outsource company?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2018, 02:20:52 pm
But it happened though in mummy vs mummy map. Or it was fat zombie? Still standard or fat but kill with 2 hits. Maybe something wrong with stats in that mission.

Could be. It's a complex game, there are many things which could happen...

I mean what is electronic? There no such item anywhere.

You need a craft with an ELECTRONICS slot.
(Or ELEC in short, in craft descriptions.)

I'm not sure what can be unclear in this message... It's not like I don't want to answer, but what else should I explain?

So how to build with outsource company?

Sorry... What???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on August 04, 2018, 04:07:30 pm
You mean you'd like to buy them instead of producing them?
It could be done of course, but IMO we don't have manufacturing projects at that game stage.
Isn't UAC outsourcing (at least for craft weapons) a thing even before getting napalm grenades (Promotion II -> Promotion III)? Not saying UAC should be producing them, but that having the option later on (when you get access to MAGMA) to simply buy them.

And i don't mean that you should be unable to produce them, but giving players an alternative to produce them later on when you actually get the option to outsource production. Keeping multiple bases stocked up with tritanium ammo, napalm grenades and other critical stuff is kind of a chore tbh. That's what outsourcing is for. On that note, i also find it strange that sharing alloy/tritanium tech with MAGMA is the only option to get upgraded ammunition for certain guns while X-COM is essentially building cutting-edge space fighters and fusion explosives from scratch. Producing tritanium ammo regardless of caliber should be a piece of cake, given the technology you have access to.

Also, how come that sharing the tech leads to Osiron having access to most tritanium ammunition when we can't buy that stuff from MAGMA either? Why no let us buy an extended selection of calibers outright (for a hefty markup of course) once we share the tech? I actually find myself ditching alloy ammo relatively early because of the production overhead (i.e. having to transfer or produce alloys before starting production). This wouldn't be that much of a problem if we had an option to "automatically" produce the needed alloys when starting production of items that need them (i.e. by adding the cost and hours to the original item). Same goes for the knock-out gas grenade for example. Why not just add the cost for the grenade or simply outsource it as well?

Should an international para-military organization that does frontline research into aliens, the paranormal and that builds it's own hover tanks and spacefighters really have to produce every bullet their grunts fire when we have access to a company that specializes in doing exactely that? Early on, when you're still trying to get recognition for what you're doing? Definitely. When you get access to a company that specializes in providing *non-standard* weaponry and that you actually shared the that tech with and let's you buy said ammo for some of their guns? I think it's not too far fetched that MAGMA might be more than willing to produce other calibers as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2018, 04:58:47 pm
Isn't UAC outsourcing (at least for craft weapons) a thing even before getting napalm grenades (Promotion II -> Promotion III)? Not saying UAC should be producing them, but that having the option later on (when you get access to MAGMA) to simply buy them.

You could outsource everything and just not use workshops at all, but why the hell would I do that?

And i don't mean that you should be unable to produce them, but giving players an alternative to produce them later on when you actually get the option to outsource production. Keeping multiple bases stocked up with tritanium ammo, napalm grenades and other critical stuff is kind of a chore tbh. That's what outsourcing is for.

Ah, okay. But see above.

On that note, i also find it strange that sharing alloy/tritanium tech with MAGMA is the only option to get upgraded ammunition for certain guns while X-COM is essentially building cutting-edge space fighters and fusion explosives from scratch. Producing tritanium ammo regardless of caliber should be a piece of cake, given the technology you have access to.

M.A.G.M.A. sells ammo for their own guns. Why would it sell ammo for BlackOps? To promote their competition's product? And to get sued in some shadow court?

Also, how come that sharing the tech leads to Osiron having access to most tritanium ammunition when we can't buy that stuff from MAGMA either? Why no let us buy an extended selection of calibers outright (for a hefty markup of course) once we share the tech? I actually find myself ditching alloy ammo relatively early because of the production overhead (i.e. having to transfer or produce alloys before starting production). This wouldn't be that much of a problem if we had an option to "automatically" produce the needed alloys when starting production of items that need them (i.e. by adding the cost and hours to the original item). Same goes for the knock-out gas grenade for example. Why not just add the cost for the grenade or simply outsource it as well?

Because you could have the tech to produce the ammo, but not to produce the alloys.

Should an international para-military organization that does frontline research into aliens, the paranormal and that builds it's own hover tanks and spacefighters really have to produce every bullet their grunts fire when we have access to a company that specializes in doing exactely that? Early on, when you're still trying to get recognition for what you're doing? Definitely. When you get access to a company that specializes in providing *non-standard* weaponry and that you actually shared the that tech with and let's you buy said ammo for some of their guns? I think it's not too far fetched that MAGMA might be more than willing to produce other calibers as well.

See above.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 04, 2018, 05:29:37 pm
Lets take for example Darkstar with 4 slots. 1 slot Beam type. 2-4 is Electronics type. What is Electronics? What can be put in this slot? I have all research and I dont have any electronic item for aircraft.
So UAC outsourcing research just give access to some early aircraft for buying thats all? When I read description of this research I've thought  "Here are materials, build this craft faster than my workshop and deliver to this hangar. I dont care about cost." like.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on August 04, 2018, 05:42:52 pm
You could outsource everything and just not use workshops at all, but why the hell would I do that?
That's not what i was asking about and i was aware that this would come up, though it's not a valid counter argument. This isn't about outsourcing everything - first off, we can't outsource *everything* (lore-wise at least), seeing how elerium is limited, as is energetic blood plasma. Cyberdisks or Sectopods as well and a number of other stuff. This isn't a slippery slope (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope) - don't paint it out as one. We are clearly sharing alloy ammo tech, which is what i'm talking about, and napalm grenades are uprated incendiary grenades. I see no reason why X-COM should have to produce these themselves when can't produce stuff like alloy ammo for MAGMA weapons or certain craft weapons.

This isn't about making workshops obsolete. I simply see no point in regularly setting them up to produce alien alloys and ammo when i could be producing something more worthwhile once we have access to a company that can produce alloy ammunition. On the other hand, why do we have to share the alloy tech with MAGMA to get access to the ammo? Why can't we produce it ourselves beforehand like we can with the BlackOps ammo?

M.A.G.M.A. sells ammo for their own guns. Why would it sell ammo for BlackOps? To promote their competition's product? And to get sued in some shadow court?
Like they are being sued because they are using unlicensed alien tech? ::)
Osiron already has access to other calibers besides those produced by MAGMA, and i see no reason why MAGMA should have any qualms about producing other ammo types if they can sell them to the highest bidder. They could simply license the stuff from BlackOps Industries if that's really a concern.

Because you could have the tech to produce the ammo, but not to produce the alloys.
Point taken, but that's not the case for the knock-out gas grenade.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2018, 06:54:57 pm
Lets take for example Darkstar with 4 slots. 1 slot Beam type. 2-4 is Electronics type. What is Electronics? What can be put in this slot? I have all research and I dont have any electronic item for aircraft.

Electronic slot accepts components related to radar efficiency. You may not have any yet.

That's not what i was asking about and i was aware that this would come up, though it's not a valid counter argument. This isn't about outsourcing everything - first off, we can't outsource *everything* (lore-wise at least), seeing how elerium is limited, as is energetic blood plasma. Cyberdisks or Sectopods as well and a number of other stuff. This isn't a slippery slope (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope) - don't paint it out as one. We are clearly sharing alloy ammo tech, which is what i'm talking about, and napalm grenades are uprated incendiary grenades. I see no reason why X-COM should have to produce these themselves when can't produce stuff like alloy ammo for MAGMA weapons or certain craft weapons.

So... the idea is that you could order tritanium shotgun shells from M.A.G.M.A.?
Yes, it's technically possible and not insensible, but... I don't know, this doesn't seem too elegant. Either you produce an item or you buy this item... If feels kinda bad, aesthetically. But I will think about it, give the idea a chance.

This isn't about making workshops obsolete. I simply see no point in regularly setting them up to produce alien alloys and ammo when i could be producing something more worthwhile once we have access to a company that can produce alloy ammunition. On the other hand, why do we have to share the alloy tech with MAGMA to get access to the ammo? Why can't we produce it ourselves beforehand like we can with the BlackOps ammo?
Like they are being sued because they are using unlicensed alien tech? ::)

That's piracy!!! XD

Osiron already has access to other calibers besides those produced by MAGMA, and i see no reason why MAGMA should have any qualms about producing other ammo types if they can sell them to the highest bidder. They could simply license the stuff from BlackOps Industries if that's really a concern.

Because that would make M.A.G.M.A. vulnerable to countermoves and other nastiness. Same for other organizations who aren't protected by big enough controllers. So that "suing" scenario isn't really that far off, but it's about diplomacy, not law.
Also, it's boring.

Point taken, but that's not the case for the knock-out gas grenade.

Sorry, what was it about the knock-out grenade?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 04, 2018, 07:05:46 pm
Did I miss some important research due to version upgrade? I build Avenger already but I dont have electronic items. Where can I see research tree? Its probably a bug. If its true then it not just a few researches.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on August 04, 2018, 08:02:24 pm
So... the idea is that you could order tritanium shotgun shells from M.A.G.M.A.?
Yes, it's technically possible and not insensible, but... I don't know, this doesn't seem too elegant. Either you produce an item or you buy this item... If feels kinda bad, aesthetically. But I will think about it, give the idea a chance.

Interestingly i found it to be a very elegant solution ;D Think about it this way - if you're a small independent comapny you can punch out some prototypes using a 3D-Printer, but once you grow past a certain point it's simply more economic to outsource the whole thing to a company in china. The way i play the game (head canon wise anyway) is that X-COM starts off as a "small" team of investigators that needs every edge they can get - when you first develop the technology you have to produce the ammo yourself because it's the only option to get ahead. Once you get the relevant contacts you want your engineers to build whatever else you can to get ahead - outsourcing what you can to free up the manpower. But you don't lose the ability to produce what you're outsourcing. It's a fallback in case things do get sour between you and your supplier. So what if they infringe on BlackOps industries patents (can you even patent ammunition in that way?) - how are they going to find out? As far as we know you're the only one prducing and using that ammo. You're simply subcontracting your production to them - if anyone asks your simply renting their workshop space (and their engineers ::) on an hourly basis).

Sorry, what was it about the knock-out grenade?
Knock-out grenades require smoke grenades for production. Would consider simply adding the cost of the smoke grenade to the production costs and tie availability to the explosives license? I like the ide aof building of existing technology, but the way xcom works makes this more complicated than it should be - my engineers should be intelligent enough to order what they need if it's freely available.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2018, 01:16:46 pm
Interestingly i found it to be a very elegant solution ;D Think about it this way - if you're a small independent comapny you can punch out some prototypes using a 3D-Printer, but once you grow past a certain point it's simply more economic to outsource the whole thing to a company in china. The way i play the game (head canon wise anyway) is that X-COM starts off as a "small" team of investigators that needs every edge they can get - when you first develop the technology you have to produce the ammo yourself because it's the only option to get ahead. Once you get the relevant contacts you want your engineers to build whatever else you can to get ahead - outsourcing what you can to free up the manpower. But you don't lose the ability to produce what you're outsourcing. It's a fallback in case things do get sour between you and your supplier. So what if they infringe on BlackOps industries patents (can you even patent ammunition in that way?) - how are they going to find out? As far as we know you're the only one prducing and using that ammo. You're simply subcontracting your production to them - if anyone asks your simply renting their workshop space (and their engineers ::) on an hourly basis).

Maybe? but it would mean throwing away the current model, and I honestly don't think it sucks that much.
These aren't decisions which can be made easily (well they can, but... it's a bad idea). But I think it would be good to simply write a minimod for this; it would be trivial to do. I'm not convinced it should go straight to the main, though.

Knock-out grenades require smoke grenades for production. Would consider simply adding the cost of the smoke grenade to the production costs and tie availability to the explosives license? I like the ide aof building of existing technology, but the way xcom works makes this more complicated than it should be - my engineers should be intelligent enough to order what they need if it's freely available.

But you might have access to the knock-out grenades, but not to smoke grenades... Knockout grenades do not require smoke grenades to be researched. I guess it's an inconsistency actually... I'll fix it.
EDIT: Oh screw that, there's no great reason to keep one grenade dependant on the other.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: krautbernd on August 05, 2018, 01:47:37 pm
But you might have access to the knock-out grenades, but not to smoke grenades... Knockout grenades do not require smoke grenades to be researched. I guess it's an inconsistency actually... I'll fix it.
EDIT: Oh screw that, there's no great reason to keep one grenade dependant on the other.
I guess i remembered this wrong, smoke grenades are tied to Promotion II, not to the explosives license. I guess it would make sense to tie the knock-out grenades to Promotion II as well. Once you get acess to smoke grenades X-COM should also be able to buy the fuzes and other parts needed to construct them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 05, 2018, 02:24:58 pm
So the only way to get missing research is modify save? What tool to use?
Also mummy vs mummy mission. Allied mummy always die in 3-4 turns, she just attack in close combat vs 10 enemies and die. XCOM spawn in the corner so they cant make it in time. I cant win this mission properly. 5 times already. Can you spawn this mummy with xcom pls?
Also alien alloy minigun tank ammo are forgotten. How about sectopod minigun, tanks are paper in late game. BO auto sniper how about to tweak auto shot from 30% to 35%?  It the only auto sniper in game after all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Wherewulf028 on August 07, 2018, 11:41:18 am
Is it possible to play this on Android? I have oxce+ for Android, but I'd love to play this mod
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 07, 2018, 07:38:04 pm
So the only way to get missing research is modify save? What tool to use?

Any text editor. But don't use the stock Windows Notepad, I wouldn't trust it with a shopping list. (I use EditPad.)

Also mummy vs mummy mission. Allied mummy always die in 3-4 turns, she just attack in close combat vs 10 enemies and die. XCOM spawn in the corner so they cant make it in time. I cant win this mission properly. 5 times already. Can you spawn this mummy with xcom pls?

Not yet, but in the future, probably. (I have request this feature already, and Meridian looked at it favourably.)

Also alien alloy minigun tank ammo are forgotten. How about sectopod minigun, tanks are paper in late game.

Can be done, I guess. I'll remember it when I get to the tanks again.

BO auto sniper how about to tweak auto shot from 30% to 35%?  It the only auto sniper in game after all.

OK, I'll do it as an experiment.

Is it possible to play this on Android? I have oxce+ for Android, but I'd love to play this mod

Yes, I think so. Never tried it myself, but it should work.
(Also welcome to the forums!)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: MK12 on August 09, 2018, 08:26:26 pm
Its this one?
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  STR_ION_BLASTER_CLIP: 1
  STR_JANISSARY_CORPSE: 1
  STR_JANISSARY_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_JARHEAD_CORPSE: 1
  STR_JARHEAD_INVESTIGATION: 1
  STR_JARHEAD_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_JUDGE_BUY: 1
  STR_JUGGERNAUT_SUIT: 1
  STR_JUMPSUIT: 1
  STR_JUMP_ARMOR: 1
  STR_KATANA: 1
  STR_KIRYU_KAI: 1
  STR_LABORATORY: 1
  STR_LARGE_RADAR_SYSTEM: 1
  STR_LASER_CANNON: 1
  STR_LASER_CARBINE: 1
  STR_LASER_DEFENSES: 1
  STR_LASER_PISTOL_MIB_MANUFACTURING: 1
  STR_LASER_RIFLE_MIB_MANUFACTURING: 1
  STR_LASER_SHOTGUN: 1
  STR_LASER_SNIPER_RIFLE: 1
  STR_LASER_WEAPONS: 1
  STR_LAUNCHER_ELERIUM: 1
  STR_LEATHER_CORSET: 1
  STR_LIGHTNING_THROWER: 1
  STR_LIGHTNING_THROWER_CLIP: 1
  STR_LIGHT_CANNON: 1
  STR_LIGHT_CANNON_BUY: 1
  STR_LIGHT_MINIGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_LIZARD_TRAP: 1
  STR_LOBSTERMAN_CORPSE: 1
  STR_LOBSTERMAN_NAVIGATOR: 1
  STR_LOBSTERMAN_OVERSEER: 1
  STR_LOBSTERMAN_SOLDIER: 1
  STR_LOGISTICS: 1
  STR_LOST_USO: 1
  STR_LUCHADOR: 1
  STR_LUGER: 1
  STR_M14: 1
  STR_M14_BUY: 1
  STR_M3_GREASEGUN: 1
  STR_M3_GREASEGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_M60: 1
  STR_M60_BUY: 1
  STR_M83_BARETT_BUY: 1
  STR_MAC10_BUY: 1
  STR_MACHETE: 1
  STR_MACHINE_GUNS_LICENCE: 1
  STR_MACRO_FLAMER: 1
  STR_MACRO_SMG: 1
  STR_MACRO_SMG_BUY: 1
  STR_MAGMA_CONTACT: 1
  STR_MAGMA_MISSION_MAGMA_LAB: 1
  STR_MAGMA_PULSE_LMG_BUY: 1
  STR_MAGMA_PULSE_PISTOL_BUY: 1
  STR_MAGMA_PULSE_RIFLE_BUY: 1
  STR_MAGMA_PULSE_SMG_BUY: 1
  STR_MAGNUM_BUY: 1
  STR_MAKAROV: 1
  STR_MALE_STORMY: 1
  STR_MASTERS_OF_SHOGG: 1
  STR_MAUSER: 1
  STR_MEDGAS_GRENADE: 1
  STR_MEDICAL_DRONE: 1
  STR_MEDICINE: 1
  STR_MEDI_KIT: 1
  STR_MEGASCORPION_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MEGASCORPION_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MEGAWORM_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MEGAWORM_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MEGAZOMBIE_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MEGAZOMBIE_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MERIDIAN_HUNTER: 1
  STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_01: 1
  STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_03: 1
  STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_04: 1
  STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_05: 1
  STR_MESSAGE_FROM_MAGMA_ALLOY_AMMO: 1
  STR_MESSENGERS_OF_DAGON: 1
  STR_METAPSYCHOLOGY: 1
  STR_MIB_AGENT: 1
  STR_MIB_ENFORCER: 1
  STR_MIB_PSI_OPS: 1
  STR_MIB_SCIENTIST: 1
  STR_MIB_SECTOPOD_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MIB_STORMTROOPER: 1
  STR_MICROGRAV: 1
  STR_MIG31: 1
  STR_MILESTONE_1: 1
  STR_MILESTONE_1_SUMMARY: 1
  STR_MILESTONE_2: 1
  STR_MILESTONE_2_SUMMARY: 1
  STR_MILESTONE_3: 1
  STR_MILESTONE_3_SUMMARY: 1
  STR_MILITARY_ENVOY_CONTACT: 1
  STR_MILKOR_MGL: 1
  STR_MILKOR_MGL_BUY: 1
  STR_MIND_GUIDED_MISSILE: 1
  STR_MIND_PROBE: 1
  STR_MIND_SHIELD: 1
  STR_MINIGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_MINIMI: 1
  STR_MINIMI_BUY: 1
  STR_MINOTAUR_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MINOTAUR_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MISSILE_DEFENSES: 1
  STR_MONGORN_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MONGORN_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MONSTERS_FINAL_SOLUTION: 1
  STR_MONSTERS_INC: 1
  STR_MONSTROUS_TOOTH: 1
  STR_MOSIN_RIFLE: 1
  STR_MOSIN_RIFLE_BUY: 1
  STR_MOTION_SCANNER: 1
  STR_MOTOR_MAN: 1
  STR_MP_BUY: 1
  STR_MUCKSTAR_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MUCKSTAR_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_MULTI_LAUNCHER: 1
  STR_MUMMY_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MUMMY_MATRIARCH: 1
  STR_MUTANT_BLOOD_PLASMA_SYNTHESIS: 1
  STR_MUTANT_METABOLISM: 1
  STR_MUTANT_PHYSIOLOGY: 1
  STR_MUTON_COMMANDER: 1
  STR_MUTON_CORPSE: 1
  STR_MUTON_ENGINEER: 1
  STR_MUTON_LEADER: 1
  STR_MUTON_MEDIC: 1
  STR_MUTON_NAVIGATOR: 1
  STR_MUTON_SOLDIER: 1
  STR_MYSTERIES_OF_APOCALYPSE: 1
  STR_NAPALM_GRENADE: 1
  STR_NEW_FIGHTER_CRAFT: 1
  STR_NEW_FIGHTER_TRANSPORTER: 1
  STR_NITRO_EXPRESS: 1
  STR_NONSTANDARD_WEAPONS: 1
  STR_NOOSE: 1
  STR_NUCLEAR_HEAVY_LASER: 1
  STR_NUCLEAR_LASER_PISTOL: 1
  STR_NUCLEAR_LASER_RIFLE: 1
  STR_OBLITERATOR_CORPSE: 1
  STR_OLD_BOOK: 1
  STR_OLD_XCOM_DATA_REEL: 1
  STR_OLD_XCOM_DATA_REEL_DECRYPTION: 1
  STR_OOZE_CORPSE: 1
  STR_OOZE_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_OPTRONICS: 1
  STR_OSPREY: 1
  STR_OUTPOST_OF_APOCALYPSE: 1
  STR_PARAPSYCHOLOGY: 1
  STR_PEPPER_SPRAY: 1
  STR_PERSONAL_ARMOR: 1
  STR_PERSONAL_PROTECTION: 1
  STR_PHOTON_BLADE: 1
  STR_PINKY_DEVIL: 1
  STR_PISTOL_BUY: 1
  STR_PKM_BUY: 1
  STR_PLASMA_BLADE: 1
  STR_PLASMA_CANNON: 1
  STR_PLASMA_CASTER: 1
  STR_PLASMA_CASTER_CLIP: 1
  STR_PLASMA_DEFENSES: 1
  STR_PLASMA_DESTROYER: 1
  STR_PLASMA_DESTROYER_CLIP: 1
  STR_PLASMA_PISTOL: 1
  STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP: 1
  STR_PLASMA_RIFLE: 1
  STR_PLASMA_RIFLE_CLIP: 1
  STR_PLASMA_SNIPER_RIFLE: 1
  STR_PLASMA_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP: 1
  STR_PLASMA_SUB: 1
  STR_PLASMA_SUB_CLIP: 1
  STR_PLASMA_SWORD: 1
  STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS: 1
  STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS_CALIBRATION: 1
  STR_POLICE_ID: 1
  STR_POSTAL_DIARY: 1
  STR_POWER_SOURCE_MINIATURIZATION: 1
  STR_POWER_SUIT: 1
  STR_PPSH: 1
  STR_PPSH_BUY: 1
  STR_PRECISE_ALLOY_SHAPING: 1
  STR_PRECISION_PLASMA: 1
  STR_PRECISION_PLASMA_CLIP: 1
  STR_PRIEST_OF_DAGON: 1
  STR_PRIVATE_TRANSPORT: 1
  STR_PROXIMITY_GRENADE: 1
  STR_PSG1_BUY: 1
  STR_PSICLONE: 1
  STR_PSIONIC_LABORATORY: 1
  STR_PSI_AMP: 1
  STR_PULSE_WEAPONS: 1
  STR_QBU_88: 1
  STR_QBU_88_BUY: 1
  STR_REAPER_CORPSE: 1
  STR_REAPER_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_RED_DAWN_KEYCARD: 1
  STR_REPTOID_AGENT: 1
  STR_REPTOID_CORPSE: 1
  STR_REPTOID_SHIP_ANALYSIS: 1
  STR_RIFLE_BUY: 1
  STR_RIFLE_L85_BUY: 1
  STR_RIFLE_M16: 1
  STR_RIFLE_M16_BUY: 1
  STR_ROCKET_LAUNCHER: 1
  STR_ROCKET_LAUNCHER_BUY: 1
  STR_RPG: 1
  STR_RPG_BUY: 1
  STR_RUSTY_BLADE: 1
  STR_S&W_610_BUY: 1
  STR_SABRE: 1
  STR_SALAMANDRON_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SALAMANDRON_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_SCATTER_LASER: 1
  STR_SCHUTZSTAFFELN_RING: 1
  STR_SCORPOID_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SCORPOID_HUNTER: 1
  STR_SCOUT_DRONE: 1
  STR_SECRET_FILES_1: 1
  STR_SECRET_FILES_2: 1
  STR_SECTOID_COMMANDER: 1
  STR_SECTOID_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER: 1
  STR_SECTOID_LEADER: 1
  STR_SECTOID_MEDIC: 1
  STR_SECTOID_NAVIGATOR: 1
  STR_SECTOID_SOLDIER: 1
  STR_SECTOPOD_CONSTRUCTION: 1
  STR_SEEKER_DRONE_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SENTIENT_ZOMBIE: 1
  STR_SENTINEL_INTERCEPTOR: 1
  STR_SHADOWBAT_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SHAMBLER_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SHAMBLER_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_SHARE_ALLOY_AMMO_TECH: 1
  STR_SHIELD_GEN: 1
  STR_SHIV: 1
  STR_SHOGG_BLADE: 1
  STR_SHOGG_CUDGEL: 1
  STR_SHOGG_HAMMER: 1
  STR_SHOGG_LANTERN: 1
  STR_SHOGG_STAFF: 1
  STR_SHOTGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_SICK_BAY: 1
  STR_SILACOID_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SKORPION: 1
  STR_SKS_BUY: 1
  STR_SKULL: 1
  STR_SKULLJACK: 1
  STR_SKYRAIDER: 1
  STR_SKYRANGER: 1
  STR_SLEDGEHAMMER: 1
  STR_SMALL_LAUNCHER: 1
  STR_SMALL_RADAR_SYSTEM: 1
  STR_SMART_MAGNUM: 1
  STR_SMART_SHOTGUN: 1
  STR_SMG_BUY: 1
  STR_SNAKEMAN_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SNAKEMAN_ENGINEER: 1
  STR_SNAKEMAN_LEADER: 1
  STR_SNAKEMAN_NAVIGATOR: 1
  STR_SNAKEMAN_SOLDIER: 1
  STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_BUY: 1
  STR_SORCERER_OF_DAGON: 1
  STR_SORCERER_OF_DAGON_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SPIKEBOAR_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SPIKEBOAR_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_SPITTER_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SPITTER_NAKED_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_SPITTER_RETRACT_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_SPITTER_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_STAFF_OF_HEART_GRIP: 1
  STR_STAFF_OF_HEART_GRIP_USE: 1
  STR_STEN: 1
  STR_STEN_BUY: 1
  STR_STEYR_AUG: 1
  STR_STEYR_AUG_BUY: 1
  STR_STINGRAY_LAUNCHER: 1
  STR_STONE_OF_ATLANTIS: 1
  STR_STORMLANCE: 1
  STR_STORMLANCE_MISSILE: 1
  STR_STORMTROOPER_ARMOR: 1
  STR_STORM_ROSE: 1
  STR_STORM_ROSE_USE: 1
  STR_STRIX_CORPSE: 1
  STR_STRIX_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_STUN_BOMB: 1
  STR_STUN_GRENADE: 1
  STR_STUN_ROD_2: 1
  STR_SUPPORTER_OF_DAGON: 1
  STR_SWARMIDS_SMALL_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SWARMIDS_SMALL_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_SWD_BUY: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_AGENT: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_CEO_TRUEFORM: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_CEO_TRUEFORM_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_CHRYSSALID_RESEARCH: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_EXPERIMENTS: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_FLOPPY: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_HQ: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_HQ_ACCESS: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_MERC: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_MERC_CAPTAIN: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_NETWORK: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_SCIENTIST: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_SUMMARY: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_SUPERSOLDIER: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_TESTAMENT_DECRYPTED: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_TESTAMENT_ENCRYPTED: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_WALKER: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_WALKER_CORPSE: 1
  STR_SYNDICATE_WORKER: 1
  STR_SYNTHETIC_MUSCLES: 1
  STR_SYNTHMUSCLES: 1
  STR_SYNTHSUIT: 1
  STR_TACTICAL_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY: 1
  STR_TACTICAL_NEURAL_IMPLANT: 1
  STR_TANK_CANNON: 1
  STR_TANK_LASER_CANNON: 1
  STR_TANK_MINIGUN: 1
  STR_TANK_PLASMA: 1
  STR_TANK_ROCKET_LAUNCHER: 1
  STR_TASOTH_CORPSE: 1
  STR_TASOTH_DATA_PAD: 1
  STR_TASOTH_SOLDIER: 1
  STR_TECH_WIZARD: 1
  STR_TENTACULAT_CORPSE: 1
  STR_TENTACULAT_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_TERRAMITE: 1
  STR_TERROR_FROM_THE_DEEP: 1
  STR_THE_MARTIAN_SOLUTION: 1
  STR_THRASHER_SHOTGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_THROWING_KNIVES: 1
  STR_THROWING_STARS: 1
  STR_THRUSTER: 1
  STR_THUNDERSTORM_INTERCEPTOR: 1
  STR_TLETH_HATCHET: 1
  STR_TLETH_SPEAR: 1
  STR_TOKAREV: 1
  STR_TOMB_GUARD_CORPSE: 1
  STR_TOMB_GUARD_FEMALE_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_TOMMYGUN: 1
  STR_TONFA: 1
  STR_TOXIGUN: 1
  STR_TOXIGUN_FLASK: 1
  STR_TOXI_SUIT: 1
  STR_TRANSPORT_ALTERNATIVE: 1
  STR_TRAUMA_PACK: 1
  STR_UAC_CHAINGUN: 1
  STR_UAC_CHAINGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_UAC_CONTACT: 1
  STR_UAC_CRAFT_CANNON_BUY: 1
  STR_UAC_HEAVY_NAILGUN: 1
  STR_UAC_HEAVY_NAILGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_UAC_OUTSOURCING: 1
  STR_UAC_RIFLE: 1
  STR_UAC_RIFLE_BUY: 1
  STR_UAC_ROCKET_LAUNCHER: 1
  STR_UAC_ROCKET_LAUNCHER_BUY: 1
  STR_UAC_SHOTGUN: 1
  STR_UAC_SHOTGUN_BUY: 1
  STR_UAC_SMG: 1
  STR_UAC_SMG_BUY: 1
  STR_UCITY: 1
  STR_UFO_CONSTRUCTION: 1
  STR_UFO_NAVIGATION: 1
  STR_UFO_POWER_SOURCE: 1
  STR_UFO_SIGNATURE: 1
  STR_ULTIMATE_CRAFT: 1
  STR_ULTIMATE_HUNTER_CRAFT: 1
  STR_ULTIMATE_RADAR_CRAFT: 1
  STR_UNDERWATER_OPERATIONS: 1
  STR_UNIT: 1
  STR_UZI_BUY: 1
  STR_VAMPIRE_KNIGHT_CORPSE: 1
  STR_VAMPIRE_KNIGHT_LEADER: 1
  STR_VAMPIRE_QUEEN_COMMANDER: 1
  STR_VAMPIRE_QUEEN_CORPSE: 1
  STR_VEST_BUSINESS_SUIT: 1
  STR_VIBRO_BLADE: 1
  STR_VSS_BUY: 1
  STR_WAKIZASHI: 1
  STR_WERECAT_CORPSE: 1
  STR_WERECAT_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_WEREWOLF_CORPSE: 1
  STR_WEREWOLF_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_WEREWOLF_WHITE_LEADER: 1
  STR_WESTMAN: 1
  STR_WHAT_DO_NOW_MILESTONE_1: 1
  STR_WHAT_DO_NOW_MILESTONE_2: 1
  STR_WHAT_DO_NOW_MILESTONE_3: 1
  STR_WILDEY: 1
  STR_WILDEY_BUY: 1
  STR_WORKSHOP: 1
  STR_WRAP_UP_DIMENSION_X_EXPLORATION: 1
  STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC: 1
  STR_XENOLOGIST_CONTACT: 1
  STR_XENONAUTS: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_ARE_BREEDING: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_BOOMER_CORPSE: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_EVOLUTION_HYPOTHESIS: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_GRUBAS_CORPSE: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_GRUBAS_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_INVESTIGATION: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_ORIGINS: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_IMPLANT_VIRUS: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_INFECTOR_CORPSE: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_INFECTOR_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_OVERLORDS: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_PARASITE: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_PLOT: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE_CORPSE: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_TROOPER_2_TERRORIST: 1
  STR_ZOMBIE_TROOPER_CORPSE: 1
  STR_ZRBITE_TANK: 1
  STR_ZSRR_BIO_ENHANCEMENT: 1
  STR_ZSRR_GANGER: 1
  STR_ZSRR_HQ: 1
  STR_ZSRR_MATROS: 1
  STR_ZSRR_MOLOLEC: 1
  STR_ZSRR_NETWORK: 1
  STR_ZSRR_OPERATIONS: 1
  STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_FEMALE: 1
  STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_MALE: 1
  STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE: 1
  STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_MALE: 1
  STR_ZSRR_STORM_TRADE: 1
  STR_ZSRR_UBEK: 1
Is all :1. What exactly I need to add?
Also is FMP conflict with this mod? I played with this 2 on. In options mod page xcom files should be loading last(bottom)?
Yep I turn it off and gauss research appeared.
Also nerf chupacabra. This things just run from the corner across like 1/3 map and kill random xcom solder in heavy armour. Is they unarmed attack cost 5 point or less? Maybe they are nerfed already its from old patch.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: legionof1 on August 09, 2018, 08:56:39 pm
XCF includes the majority of FMP content, so yes there is conflict. Maybe not crash level. Far as i know there are no intentionally compatible mods for XCF. If it dosent break its purely coincidence.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2018, 10:06:23 pm
There is nothing in FMP that wouldn't be in XCF.
(Though some things are different. For example anthropods in the FMP are just another alien race, while in XCF they're part of the Dimension X arc.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.3 alpha: Napalm Death
Post by: Zohngus on August 12, 2018, 08:22:02 am
Hi guys! Love your mod!

Is it okay if I ask for help with one thing though? For the life of me I can’t figure out how to get “Atlantis Temple Rumors”. It says the Aquatoid squad leaders and Cyberweb mysteks can tel you but it dosent allow me to research either of those enemies anymore. As soon as “Atlantis temple rumors” was the last thing I could get from them it stopped allowing me to research them. So clearly something else needs to be triggerd first? What is it? I’ve already gotten all the way through alof of the T’Leth story line, I can destroy the Tsoth production whenever I want, I just have worried that I may be missing something. Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 12, 2018, 07:03:50 pm
Hi guys! Love your mod!

Is it okay if I ask for help with one thing though? For the life of me I can’t figure out how to get “Atlantis Temple Rumors”. It says the Aquatoid squad leaders and Cyberweb mysteks can tel you but it dosent allow me to research either of those enemies anymore. As soon as “Atlantis temple rumors” was the last thing I could get from them it stopped allowing me to research them. So clearly something else needs to be triggerd first? What is it? I’ve already gotten all the way through alof of the T’Leth story line, I can destroy the Tsoth production whenever I want, I just have worried that I may be missing something. Thanks.

You have to finish the Tasoth Factory first. :)

EDIT: Version 0.9.4 has been released.

- Updated to the newest version of OXCE+.
- Added the "spray and pray" mechanics.
- Craft pages now show range (in nautical miles) instead of fuel capacity.
- New units: Floater Legionnaire (sprites by XOps), Floater Centurion (same), Sectoid Guard Captain (same), Large Alien Drone (sprites ripped by Alinare and cleaned by Solarius Scorch).
- New UFOs: Observer, Striker, Troop Ship (maps by X-Com community).
- New mission: Alien Domination.
- New tool: Pickaxe (with Starving Poet's help).
- New AI armor: Flying Drone (repurposed Alien Drone).
- Dogs' day vision extended to 40 (same as humans).
- Slightly increased Stun Rod damage.
- Alien Drone now uses a laser weapon.
- Alien Drones are now more prevalent.
- Alien AI now only requires 1 Alien Electronics.
- Deacreased frequency of mountainous terrain on UFO landings.
- More chances for Shogg loot in the caves.
- Decreased research cost for the Tritanium Cannon.
- Darkstar and Ironfist is faster.
- MiG-31 has more fuel.
- Added Ufopaedia articles for the car and van.
- Increased lab requirements to make certain armors.
- Less spread on the Blaster Shotgun.
- Decreased selling price on Terramite.
- Knockout Grenade production no longer requires a Smoke Grenade.
- Moved the stash in the mansion defense downstairs.
- ARMOR PIERCING damage is now called KINETIC for clarity.
- Alien Electronics is now easier to find.
- BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifle auto shot is a bit more accurate.
- Fixed the Knockout Grenade and the Dragon Dagger.
- Fixed range on Thunderstorm and Sentinel.
- Fixed Chemtrails mission not appearing.
- Fixed Skymarshall map (by New Civilian).
- Fixed a crash on Alien Drone.
- Fixed articles on alien ranks.
- Minor adjustments.

EDIT: I totally forgot to update the translation files, here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/kw72ftunp5wi4pd/Translations_update_0.9.4.zip/file
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: HT on August 12, 2018, 11:18:28 pm
It took X-Com a few years, but finally they got access to pickaxes! Even though a bunch of noob pirates had easier and faster access to them. Red-tape must be horrible in this organization.

Alas, how does one acquire a pickaxe? I didn't see them available to buy, probably a bug though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 12, 2018, 11:27:02 pm

- Added the "spray and pray" mechanics.

What are spray and pray mechanics?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 12, 2018, 11:33:41 pm
Okay, there were some bugs, so I reuploaded the mod (0.9.4b). Sorry.

It took X-Com a few years, but finally they got access to pickaxes! Even though a bunch of noob pirates had easier and faster access to them. Red-tape must be horrible in this organization.

It is!

Alas, how does one acquire a pickaxe? I didn't see them available to buy, probably a bug though.

Pickaxes are placed in strategic locations. Like catacombs.

What are spray and pray mechanics?

Check the Pedia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: HT on August 13, 2018, 08:11:08 pm
Not sure if it's a bug or a consequence of updating mid-campaign, but apparently I can research the article for the Van vehicle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 13, 2018, 08:13:32 pm
Not sure if it's a bug or a consequence of updating mid-campaign, but apparently I can research the article for the Van vehicle.

Probably an artefact from updating. Don't worry about it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 15, 2018, 12:33:28 am
I need some more help.

What is an easy way to get the chief engineer? I've found ethier finding psyclone or durathread is my best shot but that is a bit RnG for me, any better ways?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: niculinux on August 15, 2018, 04:38:27 pm
Hello there! It's wuite a while since i don't play openxcom files (since the 8.x branch) but i remember that the mission "crop circle" and "slien abduction" were bit too common, for the next version are pkanned more divesifyed starting missions? And new soundtracks?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: tkzv on August 15, 2018, 04:59:46 pm
I need some more help.

What is an easy way to get the chief engineer? I've found ethier finding psyclone or durathread is my best shot but that is a bit RnG for me, any better ways?
In the previous versions when you killed a Red Dawn member about 1/3 of corpses became durathread. 20% of EXALT members carried a Psiclone. Which means pretty much every mission above "Apprehension" or "Safehouse" on Easy should yield something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 15, 2018, 05:17:22 pm
What is an easy way to get the chief engineer? I've found ethier finding psyclone or durathread is my best shot but that is a bit RnG for me, any better ways?

RNG? Like tkzv said, the Psiclone is literally everywhere on EXALT members. Durathread is also fairly abundant, half the Red Dawn people drop it after death. And there are many other items too.
I am only repeating after tkzv in case we are misunderstanding something.

Hello there! It's wuite a while since i don't play openxcom files (since the 8.x branch) but i remember that the mission "crop circle" and "slien abduction" were bit too common, for the next version are pkanned more divesifyed starting missions? And new soundtracks?

Not that much diversification of early missions I'm afraid. I am busy on other fronts now. But I want to make more early missions when I can.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 16, 2018, 03:58:38 pm
RNG? Like tkzv said, the Psiclone is literally everywhere on EXALT members. Durathread is also fairly abundant, half the Red Dawn people drop it after death. And there are many other items too.
I am only repeating after tkzv in case we are misunderstanding something.

Yeah that was my main strat and for the most part it worked out. I guess it was just me feeling that it was a bit rng. I am a pretty big noob at the mod so I guess this was just me.
Also how do you progress on the mutant arc and how do you find caves where you would find shoggath? It just feels like I go nowhere and do the same missions over and over again.

Also what do you think of cults fighting each other? I mean I could see The Curch of Dagon and Red Dawn fighting and Red Dawn fighting Black Lotus as well for influence over their reigions.

And what about Mutants or cults attacking military bases?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: niculinux on August 16, 2018, 05:53:14 pm
Not that much diversification of early missions I'm afraid. I am busy on other fronts now. But I want to make more early missions when I can.

ok, i'm absolutely looking for these! No chances gor the 0.9.5 i guess...but in the meantime, as a bit of realism, may vdhicle have people carrying capacity kinda real life, eg car max 4, van and hummer ax 6 snd so on, whatever, i'll bive a shot to futher version when will come. Over and out  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Mathel on August 17, 2018, 09:00:12 pm
Having fun shooting sectoids and having sectoids shoot sectoids with this mod.

Interesting fact: quarter of a cyberdisc does not count as a cyberdisc item.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 18, 2018, 11:27:05 am
Having fun shooting sectoids and having sectoids shoot sectoids with this mod.

Sama as in vanilla! ;)

Interesting fact: quarter of a cyberdisc does not count as a cyberdisc item.

Sama as in vanilla! ;)

(Otherwise you'd get 4 cyberdisc wrecks from 1 cyberdisc.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: swivelchair on August 21, 2018, 10:07:31 pm
Okay I destroyed the Tasoth factory, it is still not letting me research "Atlantis Temple Rumors". Is this a bug?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 22, 2018, 03:23:59 pm
Okay I destroyed the Tasoth factory, it is still not letting me research "Atlantis Temple Rumors". Is this a bug?

To be honest I can't remember what else is needed; the tech tree viewer should help.
But I haven't heard any complaints about this arc, so I assume it's not bugged.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: swivelchair on August 23, 2018, 05:59:08 am
To be honest I can't remember what else is needed; the tech tree viewer should help.
But I haven't heard any complaints about this arc, so I assume it's not bugged.
Huh, the tech tree viewer doesn't show any other requirements for researching it. Maybe I'm just overlooking something, anyway thank you for the assistance.

Wait is the Stone of Atlantis thing the same thing as the Atlantis Temple? Since I got the Stone of Atlantis for Cydonia or Bust, but I assumed the the Atlantis Temple was the next step in the T'leth story line. But maybe I'm wrong and I already finished the temple thing and it just isn't showing that I researched the rumors. Is there a better thread for me to be asking questions? I would really hate to be bothering you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on August 27, 2018, 03:04:55 pm
Hello, I love the work on this mod - it's something I found not long ago and certainly a thing that I wanted to play since a very long time. In fact, something that I always wanted to play and which X-Com covered only partially - a more indepth, paranormal investigation organization done in X-Com style but not focusing solely on aliens as much as on many weird, dark dangers. Less huge pauldrons-wearing and steroid-filled supersoldiers and more realistic black ops, X-Files-like investigations etc.

You've made the game much bigger and better than I initially assumed and I thank you for it, Solarius Scorch.

Still, the reason I am here is not just to thank you, but to provide feedback on things that'd use improvement. Since I like to be thorough and there's a lot to cover, it will be big. I also don't claim that my take is the only correct one by default, merely that you'll consider it as simply the feedback it is.

Spoilered because it is huge. But please, bear with me - it may seem haphazard but some consideration and time went into it.

A sort of "sort agent by" in vehicle crew view would help, rather than requiring me to go to agents screen, sort agents and then add them to the vehicle or to look at them one by one.

Some vehicles have no description or stats listed (private car for example), there's no explanation of difference between private and public transport later in the game, just some stats. Probably rented public cars, for all their value once rented, should have lower or no maintenance since it's not X-Com that maintains them and certainly less buying price. It would also help against being stuck early game if someone loses vehicles but has almost no money to keep going.

Public Transport description is kinda inadequate. Works well for first two vehicles but then it fails to explain how I can travel overseas with a humvee or other such things. Maybe changing the entry to simply "Overseas transport" with description that even land vehicles use variety of civilian and contracted seafaring transporters to travel (with speed dependant on what they are to transport) would be more informative, as now it basically tells me what speed of a public car/van is (a thing I can check at their own entries).

I like the fluff research but perhaps add slight council rating to every research and write it in the researched thing (tiny bit, just council appreciating you furthering knowledge). Perhaps it is already so but sometimes I get otherwise interesting dossier but it feels like it's pointless, council doesn't care. A mention that council appreciated my cooperation with Interpol and other such groups would be good.

Far faster mundane item research - it shouldn't take more than a few hours for a researcher, yet alone a half a dozen of them, to check out some common rifle or a pistol model and test its ballistics and handling on the range (though probably it should have sharply diminishing returns when researched by more than three researchers) or to ask some organization that "yeah, we'd like those special shotguns we've just discovered you have in stock due to finding one on some cultist corpse - why didn't you tell us?". Those techs often have no in-game explanation and could use some one-liner like "BlackOps admitted that some of their experimental not-yet-in-regular-sale CAWS were stolen. Seeing as we now know our enemies use them and they're functional, they offer to sell us some models too." or even better, connecting to the "need to ask for specific rifle" bit in their contact tech fluff "Now that we know they're a thing, we can order this highly specialized piece of their hardware."

Decrease slightly armor on unarmored, human or not enemies - on 'experienced' it's weird when it takes several high powered rifle (say, nitro elephant gun) shots to take down an oversized wolf etc - I understand that it may make some enemies weaker but frankly, even a very angry rat, zombie or a yeti should be a sort of thing a squad of equipped professionals should take down with ease and it should be something one can send rookies (as there always is the need for them given agents die all the time without savescumming) to train on. They'd be still dangerous (especially human enemies, with their own guns) if a player makes a mistake and will allow them to attack - but if shot with military or big-game hunting rounds, they should feel it more (slight decrease of armor could be paired with more armor penetration on those high-caliber guns?). I mean against some the really powerful but human-tech stuff doesn't do anything - and sure, lobstermen, armored zombies ("vampire knight" but called a "zombie" when checked on the battlescape - also, unresearchable?) and other such enemies should withstand quite a few shots, but let's not go too far with it. Certainly regular big spiders/rats should go down with a single or a couple of regular handgun shots, the threat they pose fully lying in sneaking on agents, not withstanding fire once found.

Ghosts could look more human.

There also are folklore tales about consecrated weapons helping against ghosts, crosses, salt, holy water etc - maybe ghosts could be more of an early game thing, but there could also be early game research about fighting various paranormal creatures (after a few various ones are seen) with some potentially-worthless weapons thrown in into the mix. A special artifact/item priests could have? Sure, holy water will do absolutely nothing against giant spiders attacking the city or some such, but they're welcome to try.

Could the part about solving highly exotic equations in psionic tech be reconsidered? It's interesting, it figures in well with the whole idea that world can be represented by math so by doing math you can affect the world but it doesn't explain how those equations actually change reality and if they're done subconsciously and can be done even by creatures completely unable to do math the scientist should have no idea there are any equations at all.
Just mention that apparent perception and force of will reinforced by a set of exercises engages certain mechanics (that will probably take many more years of dedicated research to fully understand) that allow one to utilize such abilities and that said abilities on their are hard to reliably use and control with enough strength in high-stress scenario and thus need additional crutches in form of devices such as psiclones.

Speaking of the psiclones, they're kinda bad just as a panic weapon and often not worth inventory space. Maybe they could also allow an additional, more mundane stun/kinetic short-range attack? Kinda an alternative to tasers but quite stronger when used by psionically-inclined (of course usable only after relevant tech is discovered) - yet at the downside of how much harder to acquire they are and that only psionically gifted will benefit from them.

X-Com psiclones probably also should be hidden till X-Com discovers how to use psionic/psychic abilities. I recall having them mentioned quite a way before despite my organization having no idea about using psi - sure, there's the "Need To Know" tech to kinda explain such cases, but I don't think psiclones would apply, otherwise it suggests the council already knew all about psi - in which case, why the hell would they allow me to waste cash researching what they already know? Anyway, having regular psiclones be described as simply surprising part-alien tech causing various effects and selling for a lot due to aforementioned tech would be enough.

I am not sure what's the point of weapon slot on Humvee since given its overall stats it's really unable to fight any UFO and I am unsure how - if at all - one can employ vehicle weapons on the battlescape. Is that just a fluff thing? The first vehicle weapon that I got, a cannon, is also considerably more far in game, maybe some vehicle-mounted machinegun would be possible if it is to serve any purpose?

And when we're at the topic of items and vehicles - is it possible to make the tile rest of vehicle's equipment lands on sorta invulnerable to anything? It's less noticeable late game when vehicles have an interior but in the beginning all the stuff in the vehicle is dumped on the ground near it which would be fine if not for the fact that a single stray grenade, an exploding creature nearby and so on can ruin it all.

My BlackOps pistol clips keep disappearing despite me barely ever using those guns.

I'd strongly limit base building early game, when you're just a budding initiative even more than actual independant organization. Have the command facility come in two-story form with a bit of space for items, for the personnel (able to handle 15 people total, perhaps?), improvised lab and workshop as it does now to make it a tiny base seed all in itself, add a jail, animal pen and a small (new) one-tile hangar or two. Yes, just 4 - 5 small tiles but it'd make the future expansions more noticeable, helping the player see how their base grows. The rest, including things available by default like dedicated personnel quarters and storage, should be something one may want to invest in.

Now, small hangars you ask? Many vehicles are small, they shouldn't need a landing pad a big plane would take. Early game it should be just tiny facilities for smaller vehicles to send many tiny groups of agents to study various paranormal happenings Mulder & Scully style and only later one should need to invest in bigger hangars able to hold bigger vehicles housing bigger groups sent against bigger threats. Certainly few first (cars, vans, probably also a humvee and a helicopter) shouldn't require anything bigger, probably some later game but tiny interceptors could fit into those too.

Only a couple of agents show in sell list for sacking, the rest is in agents tab. Would be good if all be in the latter. At the same time, AI should be left in the sell screen and perhaps provide some cash upon sale. Same with non-public vehicles X-Com buys for quite a lot but then has to give away for free.

An important but neglected thing: more mission descriptions. When I send agents to investigate some sightings or reports, whoever reported it could at least give slight hint if it was many animals or some single huge one, or that they've seen some weird humanoids. Sometimes I land my craft just to be surrounded by zombies when I should've known they're zombies, given I just landed in the middle of a group of them.

Same with cults - I should get at least basic intel that in that outpost or whatnot is some high-ranking cult member. Because now I often just land (sometimes next door being surrounded by cultists from all sides which is a thing that could be improved as well) and only then notice there's something interesting.

Also, a bit more peculiar items and loot at cult places? Having a couple of dead farmer corpses/'bone' items at a cult of Dagon's (to simulate sacrifices) or a madman's diary would be an interesting gimmick. Same for a stash of BlackOps ammo magazines/guns for variety of rifles at EXALT outposts. A shipment of drugs at Red Dawn's or documents giving easy interrogation-like info on dossiers etc at Black Lotus. And so on.

Speaking of bones, boomboxes and other such items - they also should be almost immediately identified in research (span of hours if possible). It doesn't take often more than a glance to figure out an item such as a cellphone, yet alone too much tests by a dedicated researcher (and that's what we have - professional researchers we dedicate to study a thing). Some of them maybe could be an optional prerequisite to some research as well, or allow additional boons (like allowing bigger variety of smaller weapons in covert missions when police IDs are researched).

Oh, by the way, yeah. Most of the clips you have in game aren't clips, they're magazines. It's a bit pedantic and I know many people do not differentiate (it's not a big deal for me either) but I know some more technically-inclined would make such an amateur mistake in official item listing/reports/descriptions of special ops organization immersion-killing.

Rather than developing many arcs, consider polishing current ones. It really would be nice if interrogations of various cults and groups would provide more items specific for them, more lore. Currently there's so many groups and so many of them so shallow in depth (I can hunt and interrogate EXALT members but if not the fact they're based on XCOM2012 I'd have barely any idea what they are, what are their goals, reach of their organization etc) that it'd use some work.

Also, some sort of end-game "the world is saved" I hope will not depend on win over any particular group but on keeping all of them either eliminated or scattered. I also hope they won't be all connected. Right now, it seems that all weird creatures, gangs/cults are somehow stemming from aliens. I don't mind some connection but I also would enjoy if a lot of it would be just "Earth is a much stranger place and there's a lot of weird to it beside alien visitations".

Consider making flashlights less expensive (seriously, a couple of thousands for even a super professional and sturdy spec ops grade maglight or whatever is a stretch) but add some automatically working armor-clipped ones (give light even when not held in hand) that should be crafted at a small expense of time and funds for example after the first promotion. Not only it will encourage hiring a few engineers early game to steadily produce those, it will encourage players to actually try fighting at night without being at huge disadvantage (because that's what it is) rather than just wait till the day. Some expensive (dozen of thousands?) BlackOps infrared goggles to help in the dark and to disable Black Lotus Warrior (ninja) and similar creatures' stealth would be also nice.

Like I've said, awesome idea of sending small teams to handle small sightings of weird stuff, using human weapons. I'd like more of it thorough the game. It'd still serve purpose, diverting craft and making player prioritize but could also be both small leg up on some materials and whatnot, ways to acquire people to interrogate and generally balance out the experience (I miss the first missions of hunting single one, two cult/gang members, even though I understand rationale of moving to bigger things, too). Though make sure that bigger variety doesn't mean much bigger frequency - sometimes I already have several missions going at once and while from time to time such hectic moments are nice if I'd be flooded with missions all the time, it'd quickly tire me.

Some items found during the mission aren't brought to X-Com. While I can understand the logic behind not grabbing every surf board in a beach resort, having them be worth a few hundred dollars and sellable as a loot would be good. Or brought to bash eldritch abominations with on another mission, I don't judge.

Alternatively, consider allowing some unprocessable items that bring no benefit to left for the council salvage teams to dispose of in general. If those farmer corpses yield nothing useful, I shouldn't need to take and then pay a lot of cash to get rid of them. The NPCs already died during my mission and the council penalized me for it in the scores. Same for the single, random bones and other such stuff that has no monetary value, leads me to no technological discoveries, cannot be used in any form, just saps either storage space of money.

Possibly it's more of a suggestion for the Extended modification, but it'd be awesome if buy/sell screen would be merged into one, where everything is listed and can benefit from the buy/sell arrows even above/below quantity that's currently at base for buying.

Also, another thing that may be an Extended issue but something I certainly would see as welcome in the X-Com Files - when in the aftermission loot screen, specify which items are to be market as autosell by right-clicking there, not at base. A smaller list to deal with that way and it can be its own category of "Marked for sale" instead of "Hidden".

During "military fighting against the monsters" mission, add some military. All I've ever seen was police and they took more time during the turn shooting at various creatures without any effect than it took them to actually die once the monsters retaliated. Which is fine if it's meant to be regular cops but when it's governmental military operation or full-scale town defense they should be better equipped and able to put up more than a token resistance (actual military in kevlar and with military rifles, police in riot gear etc). Would also tie well with the issue of how little such missions pay - sure, there are corpses but that's often, given how hard those missions can be - more of a consolation than good pay for the good work.

Storm Rose didn't show up at my craft for agent to equip it for haunted location mission even after I've researched the tech to use it. Flame glove works fine. Shouldn't both be useful and usable against ghosts, being psionic devices? If it's due to the rose dealing electric damage and ghosts being seemingly quite resistant to it, I wouldn't mind their electricity resistance to be lower. Just make them die/perform very weak one tile explosion so they can't be stunned/shocked (unless their susceptibility to it can be simply disabled).

Parapsychology in general probably could start a bit earlier, especially if you'll introduce ghosts into early game. Currently it's kinda weird because my scientists keep mentioning in their live specimen research that some enemies, including animals seem to have supernatural abilities, but we didn't even study existence of those. Parapsychology doesn't add any in-game benefits anyway, is merely one of the prerequisities for other research topics IIRC so it shouldn't be too bad (the Parapsychology prerequistes could be moved into Metapsychology tech to have it still appear at the point in the game it's at).

Psionic training should probably only start happening after Metapsychology discovery. With certain Extended settings, it seems that agents grow in psionic strength/experience with their 'work' experience and training, which is fine, but that shouldn't start till relevant tech is discovered. Instead, upon researching it and getting info on psionic abilities in my roster, it turned out much of my more experienced agents were already powerful psychics.

Parapsychology and Metapsychology relations are kinda weird in general. The former basically seems like just admitting "oh hey, we conclude that magic's real, now let's design a few tests to figure out how to use it" but it's the latter that actually does it. So, I'd make Parapsychology some very quickly researchable thing because it's more about asking questions than figuring things out and rename Metapsychology to Practical/Applied Parapsychology to underline how it is actually about using psychic abilities.

Refactoring parapsychology research could also help with abovementioned ghost idea - have the parapsychology pretty early tech after fighting a (nerfed) ghost or other such paranormal creature, which could also lead to anti-ghost weaponry research.


Whew, that was quite a thing to write and I am sure that it took a bit to read as well. I understand if some of those things would require some work to do and I don't expect you to do it straight away - I just ask you to keep this list somewhere and correct things as you go along. Adding new stuff is more exciting for many, but I always prefered to have things work great before getting more things that may need polishing in their own regard. Anyway, thanks again for your time and your work.

Edit: There were typos. There's less of that now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Mathel on August 27, 2018, 05:20:51 pm
I need help with the T'Leth arc. I did look what I still need for the Atlantis mission to spawn, and progressing backwards trough research topics ended at Tasoth Creation Data Pad. I get Deep One Rituals, Deep One City and Deep One Village missions from time to time, but none of them has it.
Also, I have yet to see a Tasoth. (In this game)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: krautbernd on August 27, 2018, 10:58:08 pm
I had a more elaborate reply typed out, unfortunately the board decided to glitch out and reset it before i could post it, so i'm going to cut this a bit "shorter" (no spoiler though):

A sort of "sort agent by" in vehicle crew view would help, rather than requiring me to go to agents screen, sort agents and then add them to the vehicle or to look at them one by one.
But you can already sort agents in the craft screen?

Some vehicles have no description or stats listed (private car for example), there's no explanation of difference between private and public transport later in the game[...]
The lore article states that private transport is faster and the public transport article mentions how your agents rent vehicles once they've arrived at the target destination. Yes, having stats for private transport would be a nice addition. Maintenance basically covers unlimited flights per month as well as car rental and logistics.

I like the fluff research but perhaps add slight council rating to every research and write it in the researched thing[...]
Checking the ruleset almost all research has a points value attached, but interrogations don't get you that much. Adding council fluff to dossiers is strikes me kind of redundant seeing how they already state that Interpol has been notified or that the target is under surveilance.

Far faster mundane item research - it shouldn't take more than a few hours for a researcher, yet alone a half a dozen of them, to check out some common rifle or a pistol model[...]
Research progress is only checked at midnight each day. Even if the items in question would have been completed beforehand you only get the reports at midnight.

Decrease slightly armor on unarmored, human or not enemies - on 'experienced' it's weird when it takes several high powered rifle (say, nitro elephant gun) shots to take down an oversized wolf etc[...]
This is probably due to how xcom calculates damage rolls (0-200%). Not sure if decreasing armor is the best way to fix this. And yeah, some enemies are extremely hard to kill by conventional means, but they are (usually) susceptible to other damage types.

Could the part about solving highly exotic equations in psionic tech be reconsidered? It's interesting, it figures in well with the whole idea that world can be represented by math so by doing math you can affect the world but it doesn't explain how those equations actually change reality and if they're done subconsciously and can be done even by creatures completely unable to do math the scientist should have no idea there are any equations at all.
Then again only humans seem to need PSI-Amps to actually make use of PSI attacks. Maybe the article is specific for humans and describes the closest analog as to how humans can access PSI? Maybe other creatures use other areas of their brains for it?

I am not sure what's the point of weapon slot on Humvee[...]
Good point, i've been wondering about that too. Making use of the turret on the battlescape would be nice, but i'm not sure it's possible to implement.

And when we're at the topic of items and vehicles - is it possible to make the tile rest of vehicle's equipment lands on sorta invulnerable to anything?
You can make the tileset indestructible, but that won't save your items. For that you'd have to make every item indestructible, which kind of defeats the point.

My BlackOps pistol clips keep disappearing despite me barely ever using those guns.
Strange - of course they shouldn't disappear when you're not actually using them. Otherwise, have you tried enabling statistical bullet saving in the options?

Now, small hangars you ask?
A lot of people have been asking for this, but it's not practical as long as we can't assign "large" and "small" to hangars and crafts. Right now every hangar can house any vehicle. Wait for whenever this is implemented in OXCE+.

Only a couple of agents show in sell list for sacking, the rest is in agents tab.
Items and personal assigned to crafts can't be sold afaik.

Same with cults - I should get at least basic intel that in that outpost or whatnot is some high-ranking cult member. Because now I often just land (sometimes next door being surrounded by cultists from all sides which is a thing that could be improved as well) and only then notice there's something interesting.
Cult missions always spawn the highest ranking enemy for that mission, according to the size of the base/outpost.

Speaking of bones, boomboxes and other such items - they also should be almost immediately identified in research (span of hours if possible).
See research mechanics.

Oh, by the way, yeah. Most of the clips you have in game aren't clips, they're magazines.
And they'll probably always be called clips because X-COM. You can of course replace "clip" with "magazin" in the localization yaml if it bothers you  ;)

Rather than developing many arcs, consider polishing current ones.
I think it's more about making sure that all arcs work as intended at this point. Yeah, additions would be nice, but implementing them probably takes more time than adding lore articles. Also -> "Note that 100% does not mean there will be no changes or additions, only that I consider this arc done and fully functional."

Also, some sort of end-game "the world is saved" I hope will not depend on win over any particular group but on keeping all of them either eliminated or scattered. I also hope they won't be all connected. Right now, it seems that all weird creatures, gangs/cults are somehow stemming from aliens. I don't mind some connection but I also would enjoy if a lot of it would be just "Earth is a much stranger place and there's a lot of weird to it beside alien visitations".
Have you checked the requirements for Cydonia or Bust? Terminating the cults is completely optional (right now at least).

Consider making flashlights less expensive (seriously, a couple of thousands for even a super professional and sturdy spec ops grade maglight or whatever is a stretch) but add some automatically working armor-clipped ones (give light even when not held in hand) that should be crafted at a small expense of time and funds for example after the first promotion.
Personal lights are already implemented, though not all armors have them. You can check the armor Info tab to see what light/vision sources they have. You can also enable/disable personal lights (see keyboard shortcuts).

Alternatively, consider allowing some unprocessable items that bring no benefit to left for the council salvage teams to dispose of in general[...]
COnsider them fluff and auto-sell them.

Possibly it's more of a suggestion for the Extended modification, but it'd be awesome if buy/sell screen would be merged into one, where everything is listed and can benefit from the buy/sell arrows even above/below quantity that's currently at base for buying.
Not sure if that's even possible UI-wise.

Also, another thing that may be an Extended issue but something I certainly would see as welcome in the X-Com Files - when in the aftermission loot screen, specify which items are to be market as autosell by right-clicking there, not at base.
Not sure what you're asking for, you can already sell (and auto-sell) items from the end mission screen.

Storm Rose didn't show up at my craft for agent to equip it for haunted location mission even after I've researched the tech to use it.
Because Storm Rose isn't concealable while the flame glove is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on August 28, 2018, 04:57:47 pm
But you can already sort agents in the craft screen?
That's true! I am not sure why it was in my notes for the report - maybe it glitched out or I didn't notice it?

The lore article states that private transport is faster and the public transport article mentions how your agents rent vehicles once they've arrived at the target destination. Yes, having stats for private transport would be a nice addition. Maintenance basically covers unlimited flights per month as well as car rental and logistics.
Yes, and it still doesn't address some of the issue, like how it doesn't explain flying/swimming humvees. Thus the idea to adjust the description as proposed.

Checking the ruleset almost all research has a points value attached, but interrogations don't get you that much. Adding council fluff to dossiers is strikes me kind of redundant seeing how they already state that Interpol has been notified or that the target is under surveilance.
Hardly redundant. The fact that Interpol is notified may mean nothing for the council - Interpol is a different organization and they do not directly provide you any boons for cooperation, so it may very well be suggested that the dossiers etc are just fluff and no one cares about you pushing it further to the Interpol - you're doing that out of goodness of your heart.

Research progress is only checked at midnight each day. Even if the items in question would have been completed beforehand you only get the reports at midnight.
Which is fine, as long as the research times are still adjusted to just a few hours for a weapon/mundane item research/acquisition so they'll get completed comes the closest midnight (assuming it's not around in just an hour or so).

This is probably due to how xcom calculates damage rolls (0-200%). Not sure if decreasing armor is the best way to fix this. And yeah, some enemies are extremely hard to kill by conventional means, but they are (usually) susceptible to other damage types.
The latter part is nice but it merely slightly makes up for the first part which is the issue. No matter how much a beetle or a giant rat is vulnerable to fire, it certainly still should go down with one, two bullets from a passably good handgun (the former probably more likely than the latter). Same goes for sleeveless shirt wearing gangers and other such humanoids, especially when they are able to do the same against my rookies in light armor, using guns worse than those of my rookies.

Then again only humans seem to need PSI-Amps to actually make use of PSI attacks.
Yes and no. Quite a few characters that are quite human, in the dossiers and combat reports are mentioned as able to utilize certain, even if very limited in power or utility psychic abilities even without the tools, just through natural ability or training. There's also mention of how humanity has likely some ethereals genes which may be (though doesn't have to be) the source of human psionic potential in the first place. Sure, it can still mean it's flawed and thus my suggestion for explanation that amps are required to be able to use those abilities in combat scenario to any useful degree rather than make them seem necessary to use any at all - to keep in line with those articles.

Maybe the article is specific for humans and describes the closest analog as to how humans can access PSI? Maybe other creatures use other areas of their brains for it?
I'd suspect that genetic counterpart to whatever spiritual aspect that governs such abilities would be expressed in similar way - that's how genes work. Plus no matter the function, the point is that the researcher is at best clumsy and at worst misleading by describing the mechanics of such abilities as exotic math skills when it's not the case (or if it is the case - the researcher shouldn't know that) and it's merely the closest analog they could imagine - but they don't underline that.

Good point, i've been wondering about that too. Making use of the turret on the battlescape would be nice, but i'm not sure it's possible to implement.
I mean, it's remade and heavily recoded X-com. While out of scope of this mod, in general sky's the limit. Possibly could be hacked by making near invulnerable, friendly, psionics-resistant multitile autocannon creature shooting things and looking like a part of the vehicle on the battlescape.

You can make the tileset indestructible, but that won't save your items. For that you'd have to make every item indestructible, which kind of defeats the point.
Shame. Probably another thing that'd have to be suggested as something for OpenXCom/Extended to do.

Strange - of course they shouldn't disappear when you're not actually using them. Otherwise, have you tried enabling statistical bullet saving in the options?
Am playing with that option since a bit. Will report if the issue will still keep happening. There does seem like there are weird things still going on with the game, still. For example, some injured agents are fine but some keep getting stun damage every turn desptie being out of harm's way, requiring steady doses of stimulants to not lose consciousness - and some of those who lose consciousness, despite having no bleeding damage can die after a dozen or two of turns. Some floating point in damage calculation somewhere?

A lot of people have been asking for this, but it's not practical as long as we can't assign "large" and "small" to hangars and crafts. Right now every hangar can house any vehicle. Wait for whenever this is implemented in OXCE+.
Will do. I just hope Solarius Scorch will keep it in mind for implementation if/when it'll ever get in. I really think the initial base should be smaller and not require dedicated storage/crew quarters for the first few agents one gets making such additions part of the early-game progression.

Cult missions always spawn the highest ranking enemy for that mission, according to the size of the base/outpost.
True, but my point is that it should be ensured, especially as new early-game missions will come in - that type of POI/enemies is mentioned, both in cult missions and regular strange life form or whatnot ones.

And they'll probably always be called clips because X-COM. You can of course replace "clip" with "magazin" in the localization yaml if it bothers you  ;)
That's a cop out answer, don't you think? We could also say that you have to play as sci-fi supersoldier organization using oversized guns only since it's X-COM, but this mod offers an alternative and it's all that much better for it. Again, it's not a big deal either way, but certainly I don't see any good reason, beside possible effort that'd have to be involved, in changing clips to magazines.

I think it's more about making sure that all arcs work as intended at this point. Yeah, additions would be nice, but implementing them probably takes more time than adding lore articles. Also -> "Note that 100% does not mean there will be no changes or additions, only that I consider this arc done and fully functional."
I did note it and still undelines how I like certain things and would like more of them over some others, as per the function of a  feedback :)

Have you checked the requirements for Cydonia or Bust? Terminating the cults is completely optional (right now at least).
That's good, though you didn't address the first part of the issue I have with win conditions in general, like the fact they all seem to be based on a particular group of aliens (well, or two, not sure about connection of Deep Ones with ethereals/sectoids).

Personal lights are already implemented, though not all armors have them. You can check the armor Info tab to see what light/vision sources they have. You can also enable/disable personal lights (see keyboard shortcuts).
That's great ot hear, I'd just hope for similar functionality to be available no matter the armor, with motion sensors, seeing-through-invisibility and light being passive effects of items a character is carrying around.

COnsider them fluff and auto-sell them.
Fluff is good, but then some of those items are so random they shouldn't be collected or researchable. And I certainly shouldn't need to steal a corpse of some farmer and then pay to get rid of it, effectively being penalized for the death of said farmer twice (on top of mission score penalty) when I don't want it at all and it should be something for council cleaners to deal with.

Not sure if that's even possible UI-wise.
I mean, the functionality is all there, but yeah, possibly would need some code adjustment.

Not sure what you're asking for, you can already sell (and auto-sell) items from the end mission screen.
I can sell things alright but the is not consistent. I'd like to be able to right-click it into autosell category, the way normally there's a hidden category for buying/selling from base. Not a big deal, either way, just a suggestion to consider.

Because Storm Rose isn't concealable while the flame glove is.
Ah, good to know.

Also, since I am already making this, a few more points of feedback, plotholes:

Aforementioned article mentioning ethereals - must be above my confidentiality access rights since I didn't see an ethereal - would be nice for council to share all they know about those if they are aware of their existence and I got enough promotions to be global humanity defense force. Combat analysis and autopsies may be a stretch (plus, after all, it's not assured council has that data) but some fluff article at the third promotion along the lines of "it's time to declassify the last bits of knowledge this council has about aliens themselves - we know of such and such, known for this or that, we dealt with them in such particular ways". No particular details, just certain idea and a warning that the data may be outdated or we may be dealing with a different beast altogether this time.

I'd also enjoy a better name underlining global position of X-Com. Maybe "X-Com: Global Paranormal Defense Initiative"?

Is stumbling upon outposts and bases of eradicated (with confirmation through confirmed research) faction intentional? On one hand I can understand if some small pockets are still functional, but on the other I was told that it's now a matter of council shock trooper squads/cleaners so should I still be getting those? Not that I mind, more of the loot and whatnot. I just hope not doing those missions doesn't impact my ranking negatively either.
I'd prefer repurposing them - same map, same enemies but different fluff in mission details. "We found a remnant outpost which survived the chaos engulfing the [organization] and our following strikes against it. It's still defended too well for regular council cleaners to be able to take it out without suffering casualties so you're offered to neutralize it as a second-priority mission." would do well.

Some research seems unrealistically gated. For example, I can study the corpses of trooper zombies but I cannot check their chips till I will interrogate Osiron boss. I can acquire certain rifles from various cults/gangs but I cannot study them, despite them lying there gathering dust in my storage because they require promotion level higher than what I have (in some cases despite them being outdated models/alternatives to guns I already employ in my squads!) and in general, I'd like a bit more fluidity here.

I'd really recommend letting one acquire a corpse after a study on a live monster/non-human enemy. It's weird I cannot simply dissect some creature because I previously looked at how it behaved when alive. It disappears afer that and I assume I don't simply let it go free so probably it did end up dead. Let me have the corpse. Given how certain missions and unique creatures in them are very hard to stumble upon twice (spider queen, certain strange life mission creatures, other such stuff) it only makes it more troublesome when I am forced to get living and dead specimen separately.

I wouldn't mind it if certain unique creature analysis could be acquired through other sources, though. For example, secret documents or research notes could be a loot item that provides certain research, including research on various creatures at random, the way interrogation can lead to random dossier. Maybe cult of Dagon has documentation on gilldogs, maybe black lotus is spying on everyone else, maybe some alien tech could gleamed from what one could retrieve from EXALT bases. It could be a whole venue of covert missions, too - infiltrating research centers, illegal labs, dwellings of some minor civilian occult groups that got to study something they shouldn't have, getting research data and objects but having all enemies (at least the human ones from among them) considered civilians and thus penalizing the agents for killing them, forcing one to either grab the stuff and run to particular location (I know such functionality exists) or be forced to taze/knock out everyone. An easy, but tricky source of intel, research, more exotic (though not necessarily powerful) items. The mission ending with interrogation of syndicate scientist who has a chance of divulging creature entries is a step in that direction. A good step that should be expanded upon.

The above could also add some functionality to documents, madmen diaries and other such items we currently have which are semi-rare (at least I very rarely get mission about hunting maniacs) but less interesting than they'd seem.

At the same time, I wouldn't mind if there'd be alternative technologies stemming from the more rare of findings. Aside from mundane weapons employed by various cults/groups, the weapon progression is pretty linear. But what if after studying some particularly interesting strange lifeform which one may but doesn't have to encounter one can develop new interesting weapon alternative? I recall once finding those floating red things zapping me - maybe study on them could lead to improved tasers. Bullfrog poison seems like a great alternative way of developing dart guns with stunning toxin. Seeing how abominations are good at assimilating things, maybe a defense against it could be developed that would also work against zombie infectors - making the agents killed by them not raise as zombies themselves (which at that point would be just a gimmick, but still, something new to research).

Speaking of dossiers and other such stuff - it seems there's nowhere can I check if a particular apprehended type of a person has still something to give. I see that certain cult/gang members offer no option to be interrogated but I cannot easily compare what they provide since other higher ranked members can still be interrogated, there's still dossiers they can give etc. I believe that basic fluff, like those dossiers should be something every basic trooper of a type can provide, with 'high-ups' offering more practical info regarding functioning of the organization or unlocking very much optional, 'bonus' missions ("We're learned from this higher-up about a few planned shipments of weapons/important and valuable relic location/dead drops for money and other small tidbits. The details are hazy due to secrecy and frequent changes in response to our infiltrtion, but we will notify you should we pinpoint one out").

Anyway, krautbernd, thank you for addressing some of my points. I still hope that Solarius will address the rest (or those of the points you've addressed only partially) in both of my posts now or at least drop a word of acknowledgement so I can go my merry way knowing that whatever issues I have/had were at least seen and considered.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Mathel on August 28, 2018, 08:46:39 pm
Am playing with that option since a bit. Will report if the issue will still keep happening. There does seem like there are weird things still going on with the game, still. For example, some injured agents are fine but some keep getting stun damage every turn desptie being out of harm's way, requiring steady doses of stimulants to not lose consciousness - and some of those who lose consciousness, despite having no bleeding damage can die after a dozen or two of turns. Some floating point in damage calculation somewhere?

The amount of stun damage that disappears per turn is a function of HP/max.HP. The exact function depends on armor and can be found in its stats for nerds. It  usually zeroes out higher than at 0HP and when your HP is lower than that value, you gain stun damage (fall into shock from blood loss). If your stun damage is too high, you instantly die (die from shock).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on August 28, 2018, 10:51:45 pm
The amount of stun damage that disappears per turn is a function of HP/max.HP. The exact function depends on armor and can be found in its stats for nerds. It  usually zeroes out higher than at 0HP and when your HP is lower than that value, you gain stun damage (fall into shock from blood loss). If your stun damage is too high, you instantly die (die from shock).
The 'zeroing out' seems iffy since it does look like my agents who lose consciousness despite not bleeding, just from increased shock die over time later, by the stun damage increasing slowly over number of turns rather than just hitting some high value to be really fitting for dying of shock. Anyway, thanks for explaining it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: legionof1 on August 28, 2018, 11:41:52 pm
What is going on is 2 separate effects. First is that a character with less hp then a threshold % of max HP,defined by armor, will gain stun each turn rather then regaining stun. Second is that once stun accumulated stun exceeds a multiple of current hp you begin to take hp dmg each turn.

The total result is that the more damage you have taken, even if you have healed all wounds, the more likely its is your going to spiral towards injury and death. Particularly if your in a smoke effect as that will continually inflict stun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 29, 2018, 09:41:18 pm
Hello, I love the work on this mod - it's something I found not long ago and certainly a thing that I wanted to play since a very long time. (...)

Hello, and thank you for your kind words! Sorry for the delay, I have not had the time recently to check this thread. To my defence, my whole free time went into modding. ;)

I will skip the parts where the other members already gave a satisfactory answer/explanation. (Thanks, Krautbernd)


Some vehicles have no description or stats listed (private car for example) (...)

I've already added this a few days ago :)
If any vehicles are still missing, let me know.

Public Transport description is kinda inadequate. Works well for first two vehicles but then it fails to explain how I can travel overseas with a humvee or other such things. Maybe changing the entry to simply "Overseas transport" with description that even land vehicles use variety of civilian and contracted seafaring transporters to travel (with speed dependant on what they are to transport) would be more informative, as now it basically tells me what speed of a public car/van is (a thing I can check at their own entries).

I can create more smoke and mirrors, but in the end of the day it's still the same original engine stretched beyond its design. Maybe some day we can address it in a more systematic way (like some sort of realistic travel), but for now I think I'll leave it as is. Hopefully the new Pedia entries for vehicles will make things somewhat better.

I like the fluff research but perhaps add slight council rating to every research and write it in the researched thing (tiny bit, just council appreciating you furthering knowledge). Perhaps it is already so but sometimes I get otherwise interesting dossier but it feels like it's pointless, council doesn't care. A mention that council appreciated my cooperation with Interpol and other such groups would be good.

Hardly redundant. The fact that Interpol is notified may mean nothing for the council - Interpol is a different organization and they do not directly provide you any boons for cooperation, so it may very well be suggested that the dossiers etc are just fluff and no one cares about you pushing it further to the Interpol - you're doing that out of goodness of your heart.

We don't really have space for more text. I could change "Interpol" to something else (poor translators), but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to engage Interpol - presumably they are equipped to deal with these people. Sure it's an assumption, but I suppose we can leave things a little vague - as much as I would like to build a reasonable setting, it's a tactical game, not an RPG. Unless you think it's really stupid?

Far faster mundane item research

They can't be any faster without causing weird behaviour. (Ideally there would be 0 hours, but we can't have that.)

Decrease slightly armor on unarmored, human or not enemies

This was done as it was partially because of what was mentioned (damage rolls), but also because units in the game aren't complex shapes - they are cylinders with varying height. The armour and the roll together sort of simulate body structure (like being hit in a non-vital spot or the bullet going between your knees). Julian Gollop did it like this and I'm not one to argue with him about X-Com mechanics, it's too ingenious. ;)

Ghosts could look more human.

Sure they could, but they're not meant to. :D At least not these ones.
The entire ghost arc consists of one mission, let's discuss it when there is something substantial to talk about.

Could the part about solving highly exotic equations in psionic tech be reconsidered? It's interesting, it figures in well with the whole idea that world can be represented by math so by doing math you can affect the world but it doesn't explain how those equations actually change reality and if they're done subconsciously and can be done even by creatures completely unable to do math the scientist should have no idea there are any equations at all (...)

I was referring the fact that we solve highly complex equations all the time: when walking, throwing things, estimating distances, etc. Psi is no different, as it also is a very complex but subconsious process.

Speaking of the psiclones, they're kinda bad just as a panic weapon and often not worth inventory space. Maybe they could also allow an additional, more mundane stun/kinetic short-range attack? Kinda an alternative to tasers but quite stronger when used by psionically-inclined (of course usable only after relevant tech is discovered) - yet at the downside of how much harder to acquire they are and that only psionically gifted will benefit from them.

Not a bad idea per se, but might make actual stun weapons less useful. I'd like to hear more thought on this one.

X-Com psiclones probably also should be hidden till X-Com discovers how to use psionic/psychic abilities.

They already are. Though of course we can discuss whether it's the right place/moment to show them.

I am not sure what's the point of weapon slot on Humvee

Me too. :P
I'm experimenting with some ideas here, but for now it's pretty much just for show. thoguh it might give you a fighting chance if a light fighter attacks your Humvee. :P
A battlescape turret is an interesting idea, I will try to work on this, but no promises.

is it possible to make the tile rest of vehicle's equipment lands on sorta invulnerable to anything?

I'd strongly limit base building early game, when you're just a budding initiative even more than actual independant organization. Have the command facility come in two-story form with a bit of space for items, for the personnel (able to handle 15 people total, perhaps?), improvised lab and workshop as it does now to make it a tiny base seed all in itself, add a jail, animal pen and a small (new) one-tile hangar or two. Yes, just 4 - 5 small tiles but it'd make the future expansions more noticeable, helping the player see how their base grows. The rest, including things available by default like dedicated personnel quarters and storage, should be something one may want to invest in.

This is exactly what I have done. Sure, I could have gone further, but I believed it would be too far. Of course it's a matter of taste.

An important but neglected thing: more mission descriptions. When I send agents to investigate some sightings or reports, whoever reported it could at least give slight hint if it was many animals or some single huge one, or that they've seen some weird humanoids. Sometimes I land my craft just to be surrounded by zombies when I should've known they're zombies, given I just landed in the middle of a group of them.

I'm open to suggestions, I honestly don't know what should be clarified further. (Emphasis on "should" - I like surprises.)

Also, a bit more peculiar items and loot at cult places? Having a couple of dead farmer corpses/'bone' items at a cult of Dagon's (to simulate sacrifices) or a madman's diary would be an interesting gimmick. Same for a stash of BlackOps ammo magazines/guns for variety of rifles at EXALT outposts. A shipment of drugs at Red Dawn's or documents giving easy interrogation-like info on dossiers etc at Black Lotus. And so on.

All in due time. Beautifying existing missions is not high on my list, since I focus on making stuff which is actually really needed.

Speaking of bones, boomboxes and other such items - they also should be almost immediately identified in research (span of hours if possible). It doesn't take often more than a glance to figure out an item such as a cellphone, yet alone too much tests by a dedicated researcher (and that's what we have - professional researchers we dedicate to study a thing). Some of them maybe could be an optional prerequisite to some research as well, or allow additional boons (like allowing bigger variety of smaller weapons in covert missions when police IDs are researched).

Technical limitations, but also the Chief Accountant explains straight away why it takes so long.

Oh, by the way, yeah. Most of the clips you have in game aren't clips, they're magazines. It's a bit pedantic and I know many people do not differentiate (it's not a big deal for me either) but I know some more technically-inclined would make such an amateur mistake in official item listing/reports/descriptions of special ops organization immersion-killing.

Gollop didn't care, so I'm not going to care either. :P To be honest I don't really know the difference myself, so I would not touch this anyway.

Rather than developing many arcs, consider polishing current ones.

Eh, maybe someday. I don't make new arcs just because I had an urge; most of these were planned since the beginning a few years ago (except for the Zombie arc, this was totally unplanned).

Also, some sort of end-game "the world is saved" I hope will not depend on win over any particular group but on keeping all of them either eliminated or scattered. I also hope they won't be all connected. Right now, it seems that all weird creatures, gangs/cults are somehow stemming from aliens. I don't mind some connection but I also would enjoy if a lot of it would be just "Earth is a much stranger place and there's a lot of weird to it beside alien visitations".

Don't worry, it's much more complex than that. :)

Consider making flashlights less expensive (seriously, a couple of thousands for even a super professional and sturdy spec ops grade maglight or whatever is a stretch) but add some automatically working armor-clipped ones (give light even when not held in hand) that should be crafted at a small expense of time and funds for example after the first promotion.

Hey hey, you wanna get me strangled or what? :P Shining like a Christmas tree is often a bad thing, I can't force personal light on the players
And night is actually advantageous in most situations.

CLike I've said, awesome idea of sending small teams to handle small sightings of weird stuff, using human weapons. I'd like more of it thorough the game.

Got it! I will keep making more. I like them too.

Some items found during the mission aren't brought to X-Com. While I can understand the logic behind not grabbing every surf board in a beach resort, having them be worth a few hundred dollars and sellable as a loot would be good. Or brought to bash eldritch abominations with on another mission, I don't judge.

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you're grabbing surf boards, why not chairs? TVs? Lamp posts? You get my point. :D

Alternatively, consider allowing some unprocessable items that bring no benefit to left for the council salvage teams to dispose of in general. If those farmer corpses yield nothing useful, I shouldn't need to take and then pay a lot of cash to get rid of them. The NPCs already died during my mission and the council penalized me for it in the scores. Same for the single, random bones and other such stuff that has no monetary value, leads me to no technological discoveries, cannot be used in any form, just saps either storage space of money.

It's meant to be a nuisance... Not sure what is wrong here?

During "military fighting against the monsters" mission, add some military. All I've ever seen was police

Wat????
This isn't how it works...

Parapsychology in general probably could start a bit earlier, especially if you'll introduce ghosts into early game. Currently it's kinda weird because my scientists keep mentioning in their live specimen research that some enemies, including animals seem to have supernatural abilities, but we didn't even study existence of those. Parapsychology doesn't add any in-game benefits anyway, is merely one of the prerequisities for other research topics IIRC so it shouldn't be too bad (the Parapsychology prerequistes could be moved into Metapsychology tech to have it still appear at the point in the game it's at).

Purely arbitrary. I could make it an end game tech which requires the Psi-Amp and Ethereal Commander and whatever, and it would still be legit. It is there because I've decided it should be there, for many balance-related reasons.

Aforementioned article mentioning ethereals - must be above my confidentiality access rights since I didn't see an ethereal - would be nice for council to share all they know about those if they are aware of their existence and I got enough promotions to be global humanity defense force. Combat analysis and autopsies may be a stretch (plus, after all, it's not assured council has that data) but some fluff article at the third promotion along the lines of "it's time to declassify the last bits of knowledge this council has about aliens themselves - we know of such and such, known for this or that, we dealt with them in such particular ways". No particular details, just certain idea and a warning that the data may be outdated or we may be dealing with a different beast altogether this time.

The thing is, a significant part the Council hates X-Com and wants it dead, and most of it doesn't really consider it worth their attention. This is sort of spoiler territory, but sdince it's not really in the game yet, I'll mention it.
To sum up: the Council as a whole is not your friend.

I'd also enjoy a better name underlining global position of X-Com. Maybe "X-Com: Global Paranormal Defense Initiative"?

On which stage?

Is stumbling upon outposts and bases of eradicated (with confirmation through confirmed research) faction intentional? On one hand I can understand if some small pockets are still functional, but on the other I was told that it's now a matter of council shock trooper squads/cleaners so should I still be getting those? Not that I mind, more of the loot and whatnot. I just hope not doing those missions doesn't impact my ranking negatively either.

This should not be happening. Have you seen something like this? How long after the faction is destroyed?

Some research seems unrealistically gated. For example, I can study the corpses of trooper zombies but I cannot check their chips till I will interrogate Osiron boss. I can acquire certain rifles from various cults/gangs but I cannot study them, despite them lying there gathering dust in my storage because they require promotion level higher than what I have (in some cases despite them being outdated models/alternatives to guns I already employ in my squads!) and in general, I'd like a bit more fluidity here.

Show me a game with more fluidity. :P
Do you really think I wouldn't have done that if it was possible? :)

I'd really recommend letting one acquire a corpse after a study on a live monster/non-human enemy. It's weird I cannot simply dissect some creature because I previously looked at how it behaved when alive.

Good point, but it's not easy to do. So for now I've decided to ignore it, as it's a very rare situation to have a living creature but not a dead one.

I wouldn't mind it if certain unique creature analysis could be acquired through other sources, though. For example, secret documents or research notes could be a loot item that provides certain research (...)

There are already multiple sources, though most are only available in later game.

At the same time, I wouldn't mind if there'd be alternative technologies stemming from the more rare of findings. Aside from mundane weapons employed by various cults/groups, the weapon progression is pretty linear. But what if after studying some particularly interesting strange lifeform which one may but doesn't have to encounter one can develop new interesting weapon alternative?

Yes, I have a few ideas already. Will work at it when I have time.

Speaking of dossiers and other such stuff - it seems there's nowhere can I check if a particular apprehended type of a person has still something to give. I see that certain cult/gang members offer no option to be interrogated but I cannot easily compare what they provide since other higher ranked members can still be interrogated, there's still dossiers they can give etc.

I understand the tech tree viewer is not good enough for you. But what exactly is missing? What info should be added and where? I'm open for suggestions.

I need help with the T'Leth arc. I did look what I still need for the Atlantis mission to spawn, and progressing backwards trough research topics ended at Tasoth Creation Data Pad. I get Deep One Rituals, Deep One City and Deep One Village missions from time to time, but none of them has it.
Also, I have yet to see a Tasoth. (In this game)

You need to research "Terror from The Deep". It requires interrogating an Aquatoid Squad Leader.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Mathel on August 30, 2018, 12:39:24 pm
Quote from: justaround on August 28, 2018, 04:57:47 pm
Is stumbling upon outposts and bases of eradicated (with confirmation through confirmed research) faction intentional? On one hand I can understand if some small pockets are still functional, but on the other I was told that it's now a matter of council shock trooper squads/cleaners so should I still be getting those? Not that I mind, more of the loot and whatnot. I just hope not doing those missions doesn't impact my ranking negatively either.

This should not be happening. Have you seen something like this? How long after the faction is destroyed?

Cyberweb lair, 2 months after taking down the Drednaught.

In MissionScripts there are 3 definitions of it.
Code: [Select]
  - type: CyberwebLair
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 10
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_CYBERWEB_LAIR: 100
    regionWeights:
      0:
        STR_CYBERWEB_REGION: 100
    researchTriggers:
      STR_DURATHREAD_ORIGINS: true
    useTable: false
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500

  - type: CyberwebLair1
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 25
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_CYBERWEB_LAIR: 100
    regionWeights:
      0:
        STR_CYBERWEB_REGION: 100
    researchTriggers:
      STR_DURATHREAD_ORIGINS: true
      STR_CYBERWEB_DIMENSIONAL_PORTAL_TAKEN: false
    useTable: false
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500

  - type: CyberwebLair2
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 25
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_CYBERWEB_LAIR: 100
    regionWeights:
      0:
        STR_CYBERWEB_REGION: 100
    researchTriggers:
      STR_DURATHREAD_ORIGINS: true
      STR_CYBERWEB_DIMENSIONAL_PORTAL_TAKEN: false
    useTable: false
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500


The first one does never stop.

You need to research "Terror from The Deep". It requires interrogating an Aquatoid Squad Leader.

I have long since researched it. Perhaps the Tasoth Factory got crowded out by other missions so far.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: tkzv on September 01, 2018, 02:25:27 am
I'd really recommend letting one acquire a corpse after a study on a live monster/non-human enemy. It's weird I cannot simply dissect some creature because I previously looked at how it behaved when alive. It disappears afer that and I assume I don't simply let it go free so probably it did end up dead. Let me have the corpse. Given how certain missions and unique creatures in them are very hard to stumble upon twice (spider queen, certain strange life mission creatures, other such stuff) it only makes it more troublesome when I am forced to get living and dead specimen separately.
I think there was some parameter in options to imitate Apocalypse behaviour, where a research yielded a corpse.

Solarius, if I'm wrong, is it possible to give each monster a 0-workhours and 0-cost processing option "Slaughter Reaper/Zombie/Muckstar..." ?

Speaking of dossiers and other such stuff - it seems there's nowhere can I check if a particular apprehended type of a person has still something to give. I see that certain cult/gang members offer no option to be interrogated but I cannot easily compare what they provide since other higher ranked members can still be interrogated, there's still dossiers they can give etc.
To clarify. Middle-click a prisoner or press "q" in Geoscape and type the prisoner type — this will show what he can give and what you already have. If you disabled spoilers, the information is unavailable until you research this type of prisoner at least once.



We don't really have space for more text. I could change "Interpol" to something else (poor translators), but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to engage Interpol - presumably they are equipped to deal with these people. Sure it's an assumption, but I suppose we can leave things a little vague - as much as I would like to build a reasonable setting, it's a tactical game, not an RPG. Unless you think it's really stupid?
I think, Interpol is the best variant. In real life one of its primary purposes is delivering information about criminals at large to police services of countries where they may be hiding. If X-COM wants to delegate low-priority targets to local police and remain hidden, it makes sense to send the information to Interpol via its office in one of the funding countries.

Gollop didn't care, so I'm not going to care either. :P To be honest I don't really know the difference myself, so I would not touch this anyway.
The correct way, as I understand it: X-COM buys guns, buys empty magazines, buys bulk boxes of ammo, some of which is packed into clips, and some isn't; between missions operatives fill magazines (which is quicker with clips); on the missions they use prepared magazines, but if they've got too much free time, they can spend it filling empty magazines.

Pros: purists' satisfaction, more sensible alternative to default "throw away the clip after shooting once". Cons: I don't think the engine supports it. Or ever will. Besides, there'd be 2 separate mechanics for bullet and ray weapons.

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you're grabbing surf boards, why not chairs? TVs? Lamp posts? You get my point. :D
By the way, how many useless objects are there in the missions? I once found a lot of useless stuff like old clothes in zombie catacombs, but didn't pay attention on other maps.

And an additional error with texts. There is a file "Language\pl.yml" and there seems to be a redundant "Ruleset\PL.txt".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2018, 12:13:40 pm
The first one does never stop.

Yes, they're still out there and may happen occasionally.

I have long since researched it. Perhaps the Tasoth Factory got crowded out by other missions so far.

Missions of this type don't crowd out one another.
I can't say what is wrong, if anything. But I know people have completed this arc, so it probably isn't broken.

Solarius, if I'm wrong, is it possible to give each monster a 0-workhours and 0-cost processing option "Slaughter Reaper/Zombie/Muckstar..." ?

Yeah, it's possible. It's just work.

By the way, how many useless objects are there in the missions? I once found a lot of useless stuff like old clothes in zombie catacombs, but didn't pay attention on other maps.

Well, I don't have a counter... But most (if not all) of it is in the caves.

And an additional error with texts. There is a file "Language\pl.yml" and there seems to be a redundant "Ruleset\PL.txt".

PL.txt is inactive and harmless. It can be removed, but I'm keeping some notes there. :P

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: TheSHEEEP on September 04, 2018, 01:13:17 pm
I cannot seem to get this mod installed.

When I put the mod into the mods folder, select X-Com Files in the mods selection and restart, it restarts, but cancels with an error:
Quote
Unknow require STR_ZOMBIE_STRIX_TERRORIST in production STR_BLOOD_PLASMA_EXTRACTION_STRIX_LIVING

The log file itself confirms this:
Code: [Select]
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] Data folder is:
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] Data search is:
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /home/thesheeep/.local/share/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /usr/share/ubuntu/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /usr/local/share/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /usr/share/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /var/lib/snapd/desktop/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /var/lib/snapd/desktop/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /usr/local/share/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - /usr/share/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] - ./
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] User folder is: /home/thesheeep/.local/share/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] Config folder is: /home/thesheeep/.config/openxcom/
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] Options loaded successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-13] [INFO] SDL initialized successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] SDL_mixer initialized successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] requested file not found: openxcom.png
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Attempting to set display to 1920x1080x8...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Display set to 1920x1080x8.
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading data...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Scanning standard mods in 'standard'...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Scanning user mods in '/home/thesheeep/.local/share/openxcom/mods'...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Mapping resource files...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Resources files mapped successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading rulesets...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading rulesets...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading fonts... Font.dat
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading extra resources from ruleset...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading custom palettes from ruleset...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Making palette backups...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Data loaded successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Loading language...
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Language loaded successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] OpenXcom started successfully!
[04-09-2018_12-56-14] [INFO] Using software scaling routine. For best results, try an OpenGL filter.
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Mapping resource files...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Resources files mapped successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Attempting to set display to 1920x1080x8...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Display set to 1920x1080x8.
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] SDL_mixer initialized successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Loading data...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Scanning standard mods in 'standard'...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Scanning user mods in '/home/thesheeep/.local/share/openxcom/mods'...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] reservedSpace for: piratez is: 3
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] reservedSpace for: x-com-files is: 2
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] reservedSpace for: xcom1 updated to: 2
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Mapping resource files...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Resources files mapped successfully.
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Loading rulesets...
[04-09-2018_12-56-37] [INFO] Loading rulesets...
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow reserch STR_TROLLIUM
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow reserch STR_REPTOID_MEDIC
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow reserch STR_TROLLIUM
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow reserch STR_TROLLIUM
..... (a lot of these)
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow reserch STR_TROLLIUM
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow reserch STR_TROLLIUM
[04-09-2018_12-56-41] [ERROR] Unknow require STR_ZOMBIE_STRIX_TERRORIST in production STR_BLOOD_PLASMA_EXTRACTION_STRIX_LIVING

I'm not sure if this is a bug or I did something about the installation wrong - if this is a bug, feel free to move it to the bug reports.
As a note, this is a self-built OpenXcomExPlus version (August 31 2018, to be precise, the very latest) and Piratez itself works just fine with it. And the error messages do not really look like some version mismatch.
Is there anything more to do than to copy the X-Com Files mod to the user folder's "mods" folder and select it in the mods list?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Niewiem on September 04, 2018, 01:52:28 pm
The mod has openxcom extended in itself. You should
a) unpack
b) copy original UFO to Xcom Files
c) run xcom files
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: ohartenstein23 on September 04, 2018, 02:13:44 pm
 Okay, the first issue you're running into is that there is no 31 August OXCE+ version - you pulled the code from Meridian's WIP branch to merge in OXCE 4.0. You need to grab the latest code from his oxce3.5-plus-proto branch.

Second, it looks like you're somehow loading XCF on top of Piratez - I don't know how, but you need to disable Piratez before loading up XCF.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: TheSHEEEP on September 04, 2018, 02:53:01 pm
The mod has openxcom extended in itself. You should
a) unpack
b) copy original UFO to Xcom Files
c) run xcom files
I'm running on linux (as a look at the log could have told you ;) ). Afaik, there is no prepackaged linux version of any mod.
The website with the linux builds of OXCE seems to be down.

Okay, the first issue you're running into is that there is no 31 August OXCE+ version - you pulled the code from Meridian's WIP branch to merge in OXCE 4.0. You need to grab the latest code from his oxce3.5-plus-proto branch.
I'll try that, thanks!

Edit: That was the problem, indeed.
Mod seems to run well now.

Second, it looks like you're somehow loading XCF on top of Piratez - I don't know how, but you need to disable Piratez before loading up XCF.
I don't. It is disabled in the config file.
I think it appears in the log merely because it exists in the files (it shows in the line before that it now scans the folders, so I guess that's just the output that it is found), but isn't loaded.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Moon_Dew on September 07, 2018, 07:58:55 pm
Latest build has the "Floater Legionnaire Autopsy" research topic available from the start, even those there is no Floater Legionnaire corpse in the inventory.  Don't know why no one has said anything about it yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 07, 2018, 08:01:16 pm
Latest build has the "Floater Legionnaire Autopsy" research topic available from the start, even those there is no Floater Legionnaire corpse in the inventory.  Don't know why no one has said anything about it yet.
That has already been mentioned a while ago, I thought it was fixed?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Moon_Dew on September 07, 2018, 08:04:46 pm
Nope, unless the link to the fixed version isn't in the original post.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Niewiem on September 07, 2018, 10:53:44 pm
From what I see it is version 0.9.4c which should have this problem fixed...
Using post from discord you could also try replacing those files from attachment
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Moon_Dew on September 08, 2018, 05:11:21 am
Nope, didn't work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: deltatree4 on September 08, 2018, 03:29:09 pm
Hi I love your mod and i would like to suggest you a type of mission:  "Sneaky INFILTRATION", basically you have to infiltrate to a civilian complex to steal data(or else, even kidnap someone) . No deadly weapons allowed, it focus much more on stealth, it would be interesting to have more equipment to allow you to succeed (armor to improve stealth but debuff other parameters, for balance.)

keep up with the good work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on September 09, 2018, 02:20:18 pm

Hello, and thank you for your kind words! Sorry for the delay, I have not had the time recently to check this thread. To my defence, my whole free time went into modding. ;)
Hello. It's not a problem. I udnerstand that not only people may be busy, those posts of mine may be daunting. As you see, it took me a few days to get back to you, though partially it was because I played the game some more, got a dozen of more issues.

I will skip the parts where the other members already gave a satisfactory answer/explanation. (Thanks, Krautbernd)

I am thankful for Krautbernd's input as well, though I hope you've checked those bits they answered as well as some answers are only partial - and while I don't require you to answer those I want to make sure you did check them out.

Hopefully the new Pedia entries for vehicles will make things somewhat better.

Looking forward to it!

We don't really have space for more text. I could change "Interpol" to something else (poor translators), but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to engage Interpol - presumably they are equipped to deal with these people. Sure it's an assumption, but I suppose we can leave things a little vague - as much as I would like to build a reasonable setting, it's a tactical game, not an RPG. Unless you think it's really stupid?

No, it's not, I actually like the fluff so it's not my issue either. I just would like to have it underlined as something that actually impacts the works of the council and my organization. Even one more fluff entry coming with any dossier that "Such information, while only tangentially connected to our work, will make the council slightly more favorable in our monthly performance reviews." would do.

That being said, I'd avoid going too far with references. Mention of Xenonauts organization was fun (though it'd be good to have missions to retrieve some of their equipment and data from various caches and other such places) but STALKER's Strelok was a bit on the nose with very random "carries metallic objects on him". Also, it'd be good to stick to one style of presentation - some are real pictures, some are clearly 3D models and of various quality at that. Certainly, I'd prefer fluff and dossier for tiny, non-compulsory one-two-time missions that give certain small benefits (like aforementioned raiding caches for tools and resources or simply researching preserved databanks for data of defunct anti-alien organisations).

They can't be any faster without causing weird behaviour. (Ideally there would be 0 hours, but we can't have that.)

It's fine, as long as it gets assuredly researched by minimal-sized research team the closest midnight report comes around.

This was done as it was partially because of what was mentioned (damage rolls), but also because units in the game aren't complex shapes - they are cylinders with varying height. The armour and the roll together sort of simulate body structure (like being hit in a non-vital spot or the bullet going between your knees). Julian Gollop did it like this and I'm not one to argue with him about X-Com mechanics, it's too ingenious. ;)

But I don't mind mechanics at all, merely stats, which can be adjusted so while they'll take mechanics into account, on average they'll ensure the enemies will be less bulletproof when repeatedly hit or hit with a weapon that deals seemingly unavoidable damage (like explosives).

The entire ghost arc consists of one mission, let's discuss it when there is something substantial to talk about.

Alright, though that may be something for you to consider to add in the basic "weird creature sighted" mission. A ghost.

I was referring the fact that we solve highly complex equations all the time: when walking, throwing things, estimating distances, etc. Psi is no different, as it also is a very complex but subconsious process.

Sure, understood, but then there are two issues - one is the researcher presenting it as a new concept while it's theoretical merely representation of things that are already happening (in which case they should simply say that it's not equations but some sort of effect caused by trained subconscious mind of a psionic-able individual affected by an effort of conscious will) otherwise it's like explaining to a person that using a gun or even a toilet depends on solving a set of complex equations - sure, it does in that context, but it doesn't really help. The second is that it ties it more with a body/brain mechanic than with any paranormal ability.
Not a bad idea per se, but might make actual stun weapons less useful. I'd like to hear more thought on this one.

True, but that's why I prsented it in such particular way - making sure it's merely a tool a psionics able individuals can use well, we don't phase out current stun weapons at all, but provide alternative for some of the characters.

They already are. Though of course we can discuss whether it's the right place/moment to show them.

That's the problem. In my campaign they were shown up among ufopedia artifacts despite me not even researching psiclones themselves. Thus, reporting it as a bug.

I'm open to suggestions, I honestly don't know what should be clarified further. (Emphasis on "should" - I like surprises.)

Sure. I am thinking of adjusting mission descriptions depending on what enemies spawn. When I click detail, I'd like to know if what was seen was some single big creature (spawning single fenrir wolf, a shambler etc), many oversized animals (rats, spiders, scorpions, beetles), diseased humanoid or humanoids (zombie, with distinction whether it's a single one or a group of them) or some absolutely alien creatures (muckstars, abominations).

Speaking of muckstars.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/qn1xt1.jpg)
Muckstars move with a sound of someone slurping something through a straw. Please, no slurping muckstars. They levitate, like some drones and floaters. Long enough round and the slurping grows really bothersome.

Technical limitations, but also the Chief Accountant explains straight away why it takes so long.

I understand, though again - I think just making the value low enough that it'll be done after several hours waiting for the closest midnight report would be enough.

Gollop didn't care, so I'm not going to care either. :P To be honest I don't really know the difference myself, so I would not touch this anyway.

But, isn't a mistake a mistake even when Gollop commits it? I mean, part of OpenXCOM isn't to merely make the game work on new OS, but to fix many things Gollop left messed up since as great as the guy's contribution is, he's still human. Anyway, it's really up to you as like I've said, the issue isn't big. The difference is realyl simple and immediately understood once you google it - clip is a little strip you put cartridges ("bullets") on, magazine is the box with the cartridges you put into the gun (sometimes already having that strip). Generally, skimming through this (http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun-culture/9-misused-gun-terms/) will explain it all.

Eh, maybe someday. I don't make new arcs just because I had an urge; most of these were planned since the beginning a few years ago

But.. wait. Isn't the fact that you working on things you've planned earlier actually meaning that you're polishing/building/improving things now? Why "maybe someday" then? I am confused.

Hey hey, you wanna get me strangled or what? :P Shining like a Christmas tree is often a bad thing, I can't force personal light on the players
And night is actually advantageous in most situations.

I fully understand, but even making more use of those inbuilt, toggleable suit lights feature Krautbernd mentions that's already in game would be fully satisfying. Currently nothing seems to really use them to degree even as great as what I can achieve by having my cellphone screen lit up - I understand regular suits, kevlar vests and leather coats may not have those, but exosuits, actual sci-fi armors etc all could have inbuilt toggleable light and have it comparable with actual flashlight. Also, still, flashlights could use price reduction. Even really quality ones don't cost as much as a proper gun IRL :P

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you're grabbing surf boards, why not chairs? TVs? Lamp posts? You get my point. :D

True, but it's kinda mine as well! Currently there's no consistency and agents often grab items at random. They will grab human sacrifice and dead farmers corpses but won't do anything with them (first is sellable for a lot fo cash for some reason, the other you have to pay a lot of cash to get rid of despite already being penalized in cash by the council) but won't do the same with random corpses in spider infested mines or other civilian corpses, they will grab bones and skulls (some will net you a bit of cash, some you have to actually pay, again, to get rid of which is kinda weird and unfair) but won't grab those leather bags filled with whatever or piles of gore. Generally, it's all inconsistent and makes no sense.


It's meant to be a nuisance... Not sure what is wrong here?

The fact it's kinda arbitrarily unfair. Most of the corpses council takes care of, some they for whatever reason - like aforementioned sacrifices - are even valuable. But then at random, council cleaners go on a strike and declare you have to grab and take a corpse of random farmer with you, then pay out of your own pocket to get rid of it despite the fact that the farmer dying is already penalizing you (negative points in mission review and thus council performance review at the end of the month). Such nuisance is unfair and may be even seen as insulting. Plus, again, lack of consistency. Either the council members are professionals or they're not working at all - they should clean any corpses and remains not directly connected to the case and important as some clue or material for XCOM operations. Again, exactly as how you wrote it:

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you're grabbing surf boards, why not chairs? TVs? Lamp posts? You get my point. :D

Where I'd like to kindly ask, maybe the line should be drawn at regular corpses that cannot be studied or other such remains that are just regular pieces of bone and whatnot of no practical value? Especially when they're arbitrarily "this corpse of some regular guy we will buy off you for a ton of money but that one, nuh-uh, I dislike their face, we will only let you get rid of if you pay us a ton of money".

Wat????
This isn't how it works...

Yes, it shouldn't, which is why I mention it! Maybe it was my mistake because I know there are separate missions for police and for military (though questionably, some of them, like the one with vampire knights, it should be military taking care of). Will report again if I'll stumble upon mission name-police/army mismatch?

Purely arbitrary. I could make it an end game tech which requires the Psi-Amp and Ethereal Commander and whatever, and it would still be legit. It is there because I've decided it should be there, for many balance-related reasons.

Sure, just making suggestion how it could be moved around to be good, though admittedly, if you had balance reasons I am not aware of, it may be that my suggestion would make things worse (though it was made with balance in mind as well, restructured in a way that'd wouldn't impact current order of access to items while providing basics of fluff knowledge for the content already available).

To sum up: the Council as a whole is not your friend.

True. I prefer to think of them as an employer, potentially reluctant at that. But they generally are pleased with my progress at least in some direction and are paying me more for it, so probably ensuring that data directly related to my work is not hidden, especially when I get Promotion III making me a global defense initiative - would benefit them as well.

On which stage?

Aforementioned third (last?) one? It's a nitpick, just a matter fo taste - I'd just like to have the global aspect of it underlined.

This should not be happening. Have you seen something like this? How long after the faction is destroyed?

Pretty sure it was Cult of Dagon, about a month (maybe just a few days less/more) since researching getting rid of them tech. Possibly also Cyberweb, but they seem to be already reported since my last post.
Edit: I've read around about how mechanics of setting up/deleting missions works. Will report it again if I'll confirm it was longer than a month and thus the mission shouldn't be scheduled at all.

Show me a game with more fluidity. :P

Is that a challenge?  ;)

Do you really think I wouldn't have done that if it was possible? :)

But the thing is, you CAN do it! At least in case of research, some of the gating is absolutely unnecessary and doesn't even exist in the base game! For example, one require tomb guardians to research vampire knight and then related topics. But they're all sentient, able to talk and so one should just be able to interrogate either the moment they get them, with same results and an access to various techs. Given I got myself vampire knights literally in-game years before stumbling upon a tomb guardian first, shouldn't I be able to just interrogate those vampire knights? If it's meant to be gated, maybe a tech requiring interrogation of both tomb guadian and a vampire knight would do (though I don't see why - sure, it may skip some content but one type of monster isn't weaker than the other so the right to interrogate them is won freely)? Also, why "vampire knight"? They're zombies, so even if it's just a nickname, not actual categorization of the monster, it's kinda misleading.

Anyway, such fluidity seems to be gated in other places as well. For example, some military-grade equipment I can use, other requires certain promotion despite being worse and outdated in comparison to modern stuff while being civilian-grade (you can legally buy it in certain countries IRL without additional permits). Same with alien tech. Sonic weapons and plasma ones I got long before working with laser (I believe the first ever alien whom I killed that dropped a plasma pistol). But it's again, years in game, with my men running around in cyber armors and flying in alien-tech-adjusted Skymarshals together with their psionic field hybrid compatriots fighting mutons, cyberdiscs and whatnot and those sonic and plasma guns still just rot in my storage. I mean, I got those weapons, I got them long time ago, shouldn't I be able to at least research them somewhat? I understand if I'd get a red-tape fluff of insufficient gear allowance from the council or other such stuff if I am not meant to use them but I fought aliens using them and got them fairly, sometimes at the price of lives - so it is balanced that I'd get to use them as well, at least after getting Promotion III.

So yeah, a lot of it can be made less gated/more fluid. From such tech and gear considerations, to stuff like interrogations, where I understand sometimes only specific type of alien possess specific knowledge, but the interrogation times and results are sometimes very inconsistent (some enemies take much longer to interrogate than others, very similar ones who shouldn't be more resistant etc).

Good point, but it's not easy to do. So for now I've decided to ignore it, as it's a very rare situation to have a living creature but not a dead one.

But.. it is very easy to do. Even I can do it, just let me turn currently-blocked option "Retain interrogate aliens" (which leaves their dead bodies after interrogation) on in advanced options!

There are already multiple sources, though most are only available in later game.

True, and I think it's awesome thing you've done - I'd just hope for more such stuff at all stages of the game, sometimes even as a goal of some small mission, even if it's not vital to pushing the plot forward :P

Yes, I have a few ideas already. Will work at it when I have time.

Sure - looking forward to it! But like I've ranted earlier, a lot of linearity could be simply improved by not gating various things. Mixing improvement of that with various balancing (better weapons much more expensive to stock with ammo, some weapons good but cannot be made, only scavenged, some better in one stat but worse in the other) should take care of it as well!

I understand the tech tree viewer is not good enough for you. But what exactly is missing? What info should be added and where? I'm open for suggestions.

It's not as much tree viewer as some things that do not appear in various places but should. Most item/people listings in workshop on 'info' middle-click does not tell me what are the stats of the item (giving me ufopedia item entry) but provides me with a topic and requirements as if I'd left-click the same item. I cannot check info in base information > stores on any item or personnel. I'd like to be able to see what information is left to be extracted from some captured gangster/cultist/alien outside of actually choosing them as a research topic for interrogation.

Next post - (more, as some was mentioned in this post as well) new stuff (character limit reached).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on September 09, 2018, 02:27:36 pm
My sincere apologies for bothering you with more walls of text to read - I assure you, they're not an awesome fun to write either but it's all for the sake of the neverending thorough testing:

UAC weapons. They're weird. The organization is some official one you can later make a proper relations with but there's actually no contact I recall for getting in touch with them to get official "regular weapons" stock. There probably should be something for it, but all UAC weapons for some reasons are in the hands of Cult of Apocalypse (which is weird, as theyr'e usually just ragtag of various subcultures - why would they need space-capable weaponry?) and it's from them that I had to get any before researching them and their acquisition.

On top of that, certain items of their type are also questionable. UAC and MAGMA SMGs seem kinda pointless - they have two-hand requirement of a full-scale rifle, but are bulkier and heavier than pistols while not dealing much more damage at any distance, barring very inaccurate auto. Maybe making them more like BlackOps SMG would be good? Also, a tiny inconsistency, naming BlackOps Sub-Machine Gun as such makes it not listed when one looks for "SMG". I also like BlackOps SMG shot graphic and sound implying that by default it's short bursts of fire - maybe same could be implied (with modification) to all SMGs? Or even make them behave like UAC rifles which indeed shoot in bursts only (3x30 damage)? Though I wouldn't mind single-shot-fire in either as well - is it possible to provide the weapon with different shot sounds/graphics depending on firemode used?

Some ufopedia entries indeed are too big. Which is a shame. For example, VSS Vintorez rifle seems to have description go out of bounds with no way to scroll the text I could find. Scrolling of the text would be awesome, by the way, to add all the fluff to various reports we'd like to have - but I understand it's more of a thing Extended creators would have to make.

Osprey probably shouldn't depend on all cult operations tech. I was flying around in skyrangers and with personal armor-clad troopers before getting operations of every cult/gang. Which isn't a bad thing on its own (non-linearity!) but kinda makes the vehicle useless.

I keep getting stunned hybrid drones but at the end of the mission I only get them in wrecked versions. Can't I just reprogram non-destroyed drone intead of rebuilding it from remains of one?

Generally, since hybrids use just new approach and tech of normal human materials, it'd be nice to have a project allowing XCOM to reproduce all their stuff without needing to scavenge any base parts.

Also, sometimes wrecks of cyberweb robots don't seem to register among loot, I don't know why.

Enemies keep getting better weapons, Cult of Apocalypse runs around with UAC stuff and miniguns. Maybe as I improve my weapons, council salvagers, regular military and police could also get better stuff. Could be a research topic that allow some (human) weapons and armors to be spread with peacekeeping forces, at tiny bit of council dislike due to some councilmen prefering such technology to be strictly controlled (as is with sharing tritanium ammo tech with MAGMA). Later in the game policemen still run around with glocks, risking lives even against stuff like oversized rats and spiders (another reason to make those kinds of creatures slightly weaker against bullets, perhaps?) while gangsters get military-grade full auto weapons at times. And while I understand that average policeman may not be permitted to get something really good if it's not an emergency, military action or council salvagers battling some group would probably require getting the best the army/council should be able to offer them after few years and regular gangbangers getting the good stuff.

Tech tree viewer topics could also use some fluff if possible. Usually there's plenty of free space, being able to add a line of text summing up what the tech was meant to be ("This is request from MAGMA to be provided with X tech in return for access to special items catalogue of theirs", for example) would be helpful if possible.

Female tomb guardian supposedly uses biochemicals to control zombies, vampire knight uses empathic abilities (not sure if empathy should fit - just call it innate, specialized psychic/psionic ability dependant either on the host, on the parasite or on combination of them). Standarizing them to use one, same method (I suggest psychic/psionic abilities as they seem the theme in general and more fitting for all-distance control in various environments than some pheromones) would be good. Also, if both are conscious and sentient, couldn't it be possible to perhaps ally with some, even if only through some unique/rare special mission? I understand not every friendly creature would qualify for permanent position like hybrids, some are just too inhuman and with no cloaking ability to hide among humans but armor-clad zombies (vampires) should at least be able to provide some support in some missions.

No matter how awesomely resistant and whatever is the material, unless it also doesn't have some superpowers (and it doesn't) and merely just bashes things when fashioned into a blunt weapon, shogg cudgel shouldn't deal more damage than average, human club (hell, it probably should deal less damage than some - and certainly NOT what it does). Same for the most of the rest of shogg weapons (though knives seem merely comparable to regular ones and a heavy maul is probably heavy no matter the quality of workmanship). I understand it's to make regular workers dangerous but they're workers, they shouldn't be dangerous to sci-fi armor decked, super trained agents. Please leave that to higher, better equipped classes in shogg society - the fact they have tough carapace withstanding military-grade rounds is enough of a balance for basic peons.

Enemies in a shutdown ufo really are surprisingly sturdy. There's a huge, smoking hole in the hull, the ship likely was slamming into ground with quite some force - but almost whole crew is up and running at full efficiency, it seems. Talk about hi-tech airbags and seatbelts.

Would be nice if attacked base wouldn't be immediately lost without agents inside but would make some of the NPC take whatever weapons are in the storage. Or even that there'd be non-agent guards (NPCs generated in numberd depending on total crew quarters size, perhaps, or simply hireable like engineers but cheaper than agents and using their own weapons adjusted to current X-com level of tech or even upgradeable through various technologies and expenses together with the idea of improved salvagers, army and whatnot listed above?)

A small, but very welcome addition - Skymarshall would really use another set of door in the middle of the hull. It's elongated skyraider, to hold more troopers but it has only same number of exits, making deploying the agents and establishing a defensive perimeter without any congestion bothersome. Moving the wheels attached to the wings a tile further away from any doors (as they block exit in one direction) would also help this issue.

Underground locations are a pain. Not only/merely in strategic sense but due to how enemies get often stuck in some crevices of rock unconnected to anything. Helluva hard to get to them even when going through rock, assuming one knows where they are (the automatically activated bug hunt mode is VERY useful here, thank you - without it I'd be probably too frustrated to finish some missions). Maybe make sure it's more interconnected, with wider corridors? Lowering weapon resistance of rock so regular multilauncher or whatnot rockets can damage those walls more reliably would also help.

Lizard trap mentions scorpoid bandits. Never heard of them before. Who did we plan to hire, again?
Edit: Oh joy, I got some mission about an attack on some palace which was full of scorpoids. Fun thing, too, because I never seen any before, only feral lobstermen which are their palette original. Probably could use some work here - actual missions establishing contact and preparing the rebellions. Also, after this mission I at last could research reptoid ship - kinda gatey too, I should probably be able to research those much earlier given how many I secured from aquatoids.

Why can I produce alien laser rifle? Humans have their own (can also produce just regular "laser rifle"), they're not aliens!

I Invented advanced underwater warfare, still got crappy small sub for basic underwater missions like the USO one (underwater ship with a few aquatoids).

Also, the same mission seems to have no chance of getting a squad leader. As is the case of most other alien ships - often it's usually bunch of soldiers, navigators and engineers. Shouldn't a squad leader be in, well, every squad bigger than just a couple of enemies?

Tech tree viewer leads to some text overspill (open the picture separately/use most browsers' "show image" option if it seems cut):
(http://i67.tinypic.com/250kz6v.jpg)

Certain techs/interrogations do not mash up captured enemies into a group properly (2x red ops soldiers):
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2mk492.png)

Panicked vampire knight picked up a weapon it shouldn't know how to use well, yet alone like a professional soldier:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/5mkpi.png)
Probably hard to modify the creature to not pick it up at all (though if possible, please do) but even if it does, it shouldn't shoot or at least shoot well (very low firing accuracy). Also, speaking of those vampire knights - it may be the mission with them that had policemen rather than military, despite knights usually fighting military (though in both cases, even with my support, the military/police gets almost completely obliterated).

That's it for now. Once again, I apologize for the wall of text and I remind you that it's just findings and thoughts shared as suggestions, hoping to fix and improved various bits of the game. So, thanks again for your work and till, possibly, next time (since there's quite some more content for me to go through and possibly for various issues associated with it).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Zain on September 10, 2018, 04:53:35 pm
Having lots of fun with this mod! Thank you! Just discovered this last week...in fact it's my first xcom mod.

My playstyle has been playing on very easy, with some soft savescumming (basically loading if I fail a mission, saving if I can complete it regardless of losses).

I am 20 months in, I've terminated Exalt, Dagon, Black Lotus and working on the Red Dawn HQ at the moment...I've seen some hybrid/magmas and one alien party, haven't seen any landings yet. Haven't done any underwater things yet, I remember the Church of Dagon and Messengers of Dagon being related to underwater stuff but it never seems to have materialised.

I really love the gameplay variety between all the factions, you also really nailed investigation/lore building aspects...I'm constantly pulled with how the story and gameplay evolves as I research things.

I have almost no complaints, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the alien game has changed.

If I were to sum up some of the things I would really like to see being adjusted, it would be:

-Inventory Adjustments

I LOVE the massive weapon variety, but I feel like I've been using BlackOps Pistols for the whole game due to their fantastic damage/TUcost/accuracy/weight.

-More prominent underwater content

The thing that excited me the most about this mod was how it felt like it was fusing XCOM EU and TFTD, and while I've seen tons of assets being used from TFTD I feel like that expectation wasn't quite met. Submarine tech, underwater weapons, underwater zones, etc. I've read there is some underwater content, but after 20+ months all I've seen is some surface tilesets and some enemies. I would love to at least have some base facilities that focus on underwater content, or maybe building a base that focuses on that specifically.

Can't wait for 1.0!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on September 10, 2018, 06:27:37 pm
while I've seen tons of assets being used from TFTD I feel like that expectation wasn't quite met. Submarine tech, underwater weapons, underwater zones, etc. I've read there is some underwater content, but after 20+ months all I've seen is some surface tilesets and some enemies. I would love to at least have some base facilities that focus on underwater content, or maybe building a base that focuses on that specifically.

Then you're in for a treat. You just didn't see the underwater content you've read about yet. There are proper missions with agents coming in a submarine and scuba gear. Not overwhelmingly different from regualr gameplay minus allowed equipment, but still quite a bit of the TFTD vibe.

Just a bit of shame that there seems to be not much of an improvement to their gear so there's still place for improvement here - more armors, XCOM-made underwater warfare weapons (a weird thing we don't get any special recipes for those with relevant underwater operations technologies) would be welcome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: tkzv on September 10, 2018, 09:29:30 pm
Generally, since hybrids use just new approach and tech of normal human materials, it'd be nice to have a project allowing XCOM to reproduce all their stuff without needing to scavenge any base parts.
I second that :)

No matter how awesomely resistant and whatever is the material, unless it also doesn't have some superpowers (and it doesn't) and merely just bashes things when fashioned into a blunt weapon, shogg cudgel shouldn't deal more damage than average, human club (hell, it probably should deal less damage than some - and certainly NOT what it does). Same for the most of the rest of shogg weapons (though knives seem merely comparable to regular ones and a heavy maul is probably heavy no matter the quality of workmanship).
Aren't they psionically empowered?

Enemies in a shutdown ufo really are surprisingly sturdy. There's a huge, smoking hole in the hull, the ship likely was slamming into ground with quite some force - but almost whole crew is up and running at full efficiency, it seems. Talk about hi-tech airbags and seatbelts.
The UFO landed mostly intact, and all the damage and deaths have been caused by damaged engines exploding. And intact UFOs compensate great accelerations with artificial gravity.
 
Certain techs/interrogations do not mash up captured enemies into a group properly (2x red ops soldiers):
Male and female captives appear as 2 separate research items.

Panicked vampire knight picked up a weapon it shouldn't know how to use well, yet alone like a professional soldier:
Probably hard to modify the creature to not pick it up at all (though if possible, please do) but even if it does, it shouldn't shoot or at least shoot well (very low firing accuracy). Also, speaking of those vampire knights - it may be the mission with them that had policemen rather than military, despite knights usually fighting military (though in both cases, even with my support, the military/police gets almost completely obliterated).
Right now vampire knights have firing accuracy 40, same as ghoul soldiers and below ghoul warriors (53). Ghouls do use firearms. Guess, the bosses try to stay on par with their subordinates' subordinates, even if they prefer melee weapons.

I am 20 months in, I've terminated Exalt, Dagon, Black Lotus and working on the Red Dawn HQ at the moment...I've seen some hybrid/magmas and one alien party, haven't seen any landings yet. Haven't done any underwater things yet, I remember the Church of Dagon and Messengers of Dagon being related to underwater stuff but it never seems to have materialised.

...

The thing that excited me the most about this mod was how it felt like it was fusing XCOM EU and TFTD, and while I've seen tons of assets being used from TFTD I feel like that expectation wasn't quite met. Submarine tech, underwater weapons, underwater zones, etc. I've read there is some underwater content, but after 20+ months all I've seen is some surface tilesets and some enemies. I would love to at least have some base facilities that focus on underwater content, or maybe building a base that focuses on that specifically.
Have you interrogated a live Deep One? It's required to unlock the underwater arc. Before you end Church of Dagon, you can capture them during "Soul Harvest"/"DAGON ATTACKS VILLAGE!" mission (maybe some others too). With the church terminated they still appear in occasional "Deep Ones Rituals"/"DEEP ONES ATTACK!" mission. You need an Alien Containment to keep them alive. To build a containment, you need a chain of researches that starts with Deep One or Sectoid corpse.

Personally, I'm unsatisfied with the underwater arc so far. It's too short and too straightforward. There's no underwater bases (which I find an improvement) and you don't keep any subs at your bases -- you borrow them for each mission.

However, it's not finished yet. Tasoth factory and Atlantis temple are no longer the end.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Zain on September 11, 2018, 02:42:06 pm
Have you interrogated a live Deep One? It's required to unlock the underwater arc. Before you end Church of Dagon, you can capture them during "Soul Harvest"/"DAGON ATTACKS VILLAGE!" mission (maybe some others too). With the church terminated they still appear in occasional "Deep Ones Rituals"/"DEEP ONES ATTACK!" mission. You need an Alien Containment to keep them alive. To build a containment, you need a chain of researches that starts with Deep One or Sectoid corpse.

Personally, I'm unsatisfied with the underwater arc so far. It's too short and too straightforward. There's no underwater bases (which I find an improvement) and you don't keep any subs at your bases -- you borrow them for each mission.

However, it's not finished yet. Tasoth factory and Atlantis temple are no longer the end.

Ah, I took down the church before even unlocking the alien containment, I was enjoying stumbling onto the tech trees too much to consciously unlock it.

Don't get me wrong, there are some things of TFTD that I absolutely detest (enemy pixel hunting in large maps, multi-staged missions) but the gear/underwater missions/music/enemy variety was really nice and interesting, I would love it if the mod absorbed as much of that as possible.

As a side note, I absolutely love the enemies surrendering feature. I had PTSD playing the osiris cruiseline hijack mission but thankfully the mission ends after you get the majority of the enemies down so it doesn't turn into a pixel hunt fest.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: tkzv on September 11, 2018, 06:46:11 pm
I was enjoying stumbling onto the tech trees too much to consciously unlock it.
So was I. But on my first playthrough in the 1st UFO mission I went to great lengths to capture as many Sectoids as possible -- chased one engineer all over the map with electric clubs. And then they all died :( Thus, I focused on that direction of research and built a containment around summer. Then I got "Soul Harvest" and found that a) Deep Ones may take a lot of time to bleed to death, and b) They die without a containment. For some reason I decided not to replay the mission with a different team. But next month I got another Soul Harvest.

Anyway, Deep Ones will appear again even without Church of Dagon. Dart pistols work fine against them.

the gear/underwater missions/music/enemy variety was really nice and interesting, I would love it if the mod absorbed as much of that as possible.
Same here. Until recently the post-Church Dagon arc looked short and finalized, nowhere to expand, hence the dissatisfaction. But now it continues as "deep undersea", which doesn't have a visible goal yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on September 11, 2018, 07:03:07 pm
To address those two points:
Aren't they psionically empowered?
Neither description, nor stats used for performing with the weapon nor the description of wielders themsevles suggests anything of such kind. So I'd risk claiming that no, they're not psionically empowered at all.

The UFO landed mostly intact, and all the damage and deaths have been caused by damaged engines exploding. And intact UFOs compensate great accelerations with artificial gravity.
Aren't according to the lore itself the whole artificial gravity generation a function of the engines (which are now destroyed)? I can understand the hull being mostly intact due to superior alien materials and engineering but the passengers should have far higher risk of being bloody gibs - between the crash itself where they'd be spread over that superstrong hull, the explosion which, given it's elerium-115 that powers the craft - should be pretty huge and deadly to life on board and the hole itself which means explosive decompression (we got that IRL with regular planes - can be pretty deadly as well) I can only think of alien mcguffin and simple gameplay consideration that'd prevent the aliens from being killed wholesale, consistently, with very rare survivors being heavily injured - but that I do not advocate.

At the same time, I wouldn't mind it if the wrecks would be much less intact upon crash to generate less loot, but so should be the passengers for it to be believable. Right now it indeed does look more like they not even crash-landed but just landed, with the only dead crewmen being the result of immediate vicinity to the explosion itself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 11, 2018, 09:47:01 pm
I'm back from my holiday leave! Sorry for the wait, but at least I've done a lot of modding!

Latest build has the "Floater Legionnaire Autopsy" research topic available from the start, even those there is no Floater Legionnaire corpse in the inventory.  Don't know why no one has said anything about it yet.

I think I've only really fixed it after the last release. I also think this bug will persist in a save even after the mod is fine.
In short, I'm doing a lot of thinking and not enough knowing.

Hi I love your mod and i would like to suggest you a type of mission:  "Sneaky INFILTRATION", basically you have to infiltrate to a civilian complex to steal data(or else, even kidnap someone) . No deadly weapons allowed, it focus much more on stealth, it would be interesting to have more equipment to allow you to succeed (armor to improve stealth but debuff other parameters, for balance.)

keep up with the good work.

Many thanks! There are already several such missions, like for example the League Apprehension, but the upcoming release will have a new mission which is more about what youi wrote. (Mission name: Industrial Investigation. You pose as factory workers and can only take industrial tools, no weapons.)[/quote]

Hello. It's not a problem. I udnerstand that not only people may be busy, those posts of mine may be daunting.

Eh, it's not your posts specifically, I haven't checked the forum at all for almost two weeks. I've been sightseeing... and modding. :D

I am thankful for Krautbernd's input as well, though I hope you've checked those bits they answered as well as some answers are only partial - and while I don't require you to answer those I want to make sure you did check them out.

Don't worry, I read everything with care. But answering in full takes a lot of time, and sometimes I prefer to keep it short... I need that time to mod, as I have a real job too. ;)

No, it's not, I actually like the fluff so it's not my issue either. I just would like to have it underlined as something that actually impacts the works of the council and my organization. Even one more fluff entry coming with any dossier that "Such information, while only tangentially connected to our work, will make the council slightly more favorable in our monthly performance reviews." would do.

So, If I'm not mistaken, basically you mean that the dossiers should be better described as a concept. I have added your sentence to the Dossiers article, hoepfully this will help.

That being said, I'd avoid going too far with references. Mention of Xenonauts organization was fun (though it'd be good to have missions to retrieve some of their equipment and data from various caches and other such places) but STALKER's Strelok was a bit on the nose with very random "carries metallic objects on him".

I'm trying, but the dossiers (and especially the staff inputs) are little areas where I cut myself some slack. Sorry, I need an outlet for the silliness too! But seriously, I personally think a bit of comedy is needed, even if it's bad shout out comedy. It's a writing decision.

Also, it'd be good to stick to one style of presentation - some are real pictures, some are clearly 3D models and of various quality at that.

I agree, but I assure you I've done my best. There simple aren't enough appropriate pics on the internet. When possible, I'm aiming for the "pseudoreaslistic Photoshop" approach (digital paintings).

It's fine, as long as it gets assuredly researched by minimal-sized research team the closest midnight report comes around.

In most cases yes.

But I don't mind mechanics at all, merely stats, which can be adjusted so while they'll take mechanics into account, on average they'll ensure the enemies will be less bulletproof when repeatedly hit or hit with a weapon that deals seemingly unavoidable damage (like explosives).

Most units in the game are sturdier than normal humans, so I think it's fair.
Anyway, show me a game which does it realistically... When I played Dragon Age, I attacked a normal guy with a zweihander and took away a third of his health. This turned out to be a consistent effect of attacking someone with a two-handed sword, using a strong attack. In X-Com Files it would be unthinkable.
I never returned to that game, by the way. So as you see, these things bother me too. But in XCF I think it's okay.

Alright, though that may be something for you to consider to add in the basic "weird creature sighted" mission. A ghost.

Sure, that's basically obvious. ;)

Sure, understood, but then there are two issues - one is the researcher presenting it as a new concept while it's theoretical merely representation of things that are already happening (in which case they should simply say that it's not equations but some sort of effect caused by trained subconscious mind of a psionic-able individual affected by an effort of conscious will) otherwise it's like explaining to a person that using a gun or even a toilet depends on solving a set of complex equations - sure, it does in that context, but it doesn't really help. The second is that it ties it more with a body/brain mechanic than with any paranormal ability.

Well... Yes, but still I fail to see what is wrong with the article. I mean, using psi is basically the same thing as using a toilet...

True, but that's why I prsented it in such particular way - making sure it's merely a tool a psionics able individuals can use well, we don't phase out current stun weapons at all, but provide alternative for some of the characters.

OK, maybe at a later time. I can't spend too much time adding alternative paths and so on to everything, even though I'd love to. Let me finish the big stuff first.

That's the problem. In my campaign they were shown up among ufopedia artifacts despite me not even researching psiclones themselves. Thus, reporting it as a bug.

Wait, how could you see X-Com Psiclones without havcing researched Psiclones? X-Com Psiclones require Psiclones and Metapsychology. Or did I change it after the last rlease?

Sure. I am thinking of adjusting mission descriptions depending on what enemies spawn. When I click detail, I'd like to know if what was seen was some single big creature (spawning single fenrir wolf, a shambler etc), many oversized animals (rats, spiders, scorpions, beetles), diseased humanoid or humanoids (zombie, with distinction whether it's a single one or a group of them) or some absolutely alien creatures (muckstars, abominations).

Possible, but only partailly. And there are some hints already, for the biggest and smallest groups.

Speaking of muckstars.
Muckstars move with a sound of someone slurping something through a straw. Please, no slurping muckstars. They levitate, like some drones and floaters. Long enough round and the slurping grows really bothersome.

:D
I don't want to give them the standard hovering sound, it's way too technical. But I'm open to other sounds.

I understand, though again - I think just making the value low enough that it'll be done after several hours waiting for the closest midnight report would be enough.

It usually is.

But, isn't a mistake a mistake even when Gollop commits it? I mean, part of OpenXCOM isn't to merely make the game work on new OS, but to fix many things Gollop left messed up since as great as the guy's contribution is, he's still human. Anyway, it's really up to you as like I've said, the issue isn't big. The difference is realyl simple and immediately understood once you google it - clip is a little strip you put cartridges ("bullets") on, magazine is the box with the cartridges you put into the gun (sometimes already having that strip). Generally, skimming through this (http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun-culture/9-misused-gun-terms/) will explain it all.

Hmm, but what is the difference between the "box" and the "strip"? In shape only?
The website you linked shows both, but to me they look the same, only the magazine is enclosed. I've skimmed through the article, read about he springs and whatnot, but I honestly can't name a single person I know who would understand the difference and also I'm not going to spend hours on fixing it. And then more hours to do the Polish version. And force every single translator to do this work too. It's not worth it.
Also, after a brief check, I think English is the only language which distincts between the two... :P

But.. wait. Isn't the fact that you working on things you've planned earlier actually meaning that you're polishing/building/improving things now? Why "maybe someday" then? I am confused.

I meant to say that I'm focusing on building the big arcs which have been planned years ago. Sometimes I polish the stuff which has already been done, but only when I feel it is necessary or because I feel like it. I certainly don't plan to start any new big arcs.

I fully understand, but even making more use of those inbuilt, toggleable suit lights feature Krautbernd mentions that's already in game would be fully satisfying. Currently nothing seems to really use them to degree even as great as what I can achieve by having my cellphone screen lit up - I understand regular suits, kevlar vests and leather coats may not have those, but exosuits, actual sci-fi armors etc all could have inbuilt toggleable light and have it comparable with actual flashlight. Also, still, flashlights could use price reduction. Even really quality ones don't cost as much as a proper gun IRL :P

Sadly, this doesn't work like this. The toggle is global, so you can't turn the lights on for one agent and not all of them. This IMO kills the idea on the tactical level.

True, but it's kinda mine as well! Currently there's no consistency and agents often grab items at random. They will grab human sacrifice and dead farmers corpses but won't do anything with them (first is sellable for a lot fo cash for some reason, the other you have to pay a lot of cash to get rid of despite already being penalized in cash by the council) but won't do the same with random corpses in spider infested mines or other civilian corpses, they will grab bones and skulls (some will net you a bit of cash, some you have to actually pay, again, to get rid of which is kinda weird and unfair) but won't grab those leather bags filled with whatever or piles of gore. Generally, it's all inconsistent and makes no sense.

Er...
Human sacrifices are recoverable to give you a monetary reward.
Farmer corpses are recoverable to give you a monetary penalty.
Random corpses are of no interest to you, so why force the micromanagement on the player. (This was actually hard to do and required some tricky new code.)
Bones and such are there because... well, you can't just leave them lying around... Isn't this natural? (Also lol at the "unfairness" of burying a bone for $100. Seriously?)

The fact it's kinda arbitrarily unfair.
Most of the corpses council takes care of, some they for whatever reason - like aforementioned sacrifices - are even valuable. But then at random, council cleaners go on a strike and declare you have to grab and take a corpse of random farmer with you, then pay out of your own pocket to get rid of it despite the fact that the farmer dying is already penalizing you (negative points in mission review and thus council performance review at the end of the month). Such nuisance is unfair and may be even seen as insulting. Plus, again, lack of consistency. Either the council members are professionals or they're not working at all - they should clean any corpses and remains not directly connected to the case and important as some clue or material for XCOM operations. Again, exactly as how you wrote it:

Short answer: life in unfair. XCF was never meant to ber fair. I don't like fair games, they feel artificial and hand-holdy. Sorry, it's how I roll.
On the flip side, I only do unfair stuff that is minor and inconsequential. I don't approve of trolling players.
Who physically takes care of the corpses is irrelevant. (Of course the agents don't normally do that.)

Where I'd like to kindly ask, maybe the line should be drawn at regular corpses that cannot be studied or other such remains that are just regular pieces of bone and whatnot of no practical value? Especially when they're arbitrarily "this corpse of some regular guy we will buy off you for a ton of money but that one, nuh-uh, I dislike their face, we will only let you get rid of if you pay us a ton of money".

I don't get which ones you refer to... I need more info.

Yes, it shouldn't, which is why I mention it! Maybe it was my mistake because I know there are separate missions for police and for military (though questionably, some of them, like the one with vampire knights, it should be military taking care of). Will report again if I'll stumble upon mission name-police/army mismatch?

But from my experience these missions work correctly, I've seen both the police and the military on many occasions. I honestly don't think it's a bug, but if you encounter it, please let me know.

True. I prefer to think of them as an employer, potentially reluctant at that.

It's a pretty favourable view. At least half of it wants you dead, a vocal minority tries to sell you as the best thing since sliced bread, and the rest doesn't care.
These people literally rule the world, it's all politics to them.

But they generally are pleased with my progress at least in some direction and are paying me more for it, so probably ensuring that data directly related to my work is not hidden, especially when I get Promotion III making me a global defense initiative - would benefit them as well.

It's... complicated. I don't really want to go into details here, because spoilers and such.

Aforementioned third (last?) one? It's a nitpick, just a matter fo taste - I'd just like to have the global aspect of it underlined.

I wanted to preserve the "UFO Defense" title as a homage.

Is that a challenge?  ;)

No! :D

But the thing is, you CAN do it! At least in case of research, some of the gating is absolutely unnecessary and doesn't even exist in the base game! For example, one require tomb guardians to research vampire knight and then related topics. But they're all sentient, able to talk and so one should just be able to interrogate either the moment they get them, with same results and an access to various techs. Given I got myself vampire knights literally in-game years before stumbling upon a tomb guardian first, shouldn't I be able to just interrogate those vampire knights? If it's meant to be gated, maybe a tech requiring interrogation of both tomb guadian and a vampire knight would do (though I don't see why - sure, it may skip some content but one type of monster isn't weaker than the other so the right to interrogate them is won freely)?

Theoretically yes, but interrogating a random type is not enough to build a model.
I could bloat the game by spending weeks on creating all sorts of interconnections between researches, fluff told by Tomb Guardians, special conditions for advanced Zombie missions etc., but come on... Let's not get ridiculous.

Also, why "vampire knight"? They're zombies, so even if it's just a nickname, not actual categorization of the monster, it's kinda misleading.

Why the hell not? How are we supposed to categorize them, Life Form #1543?

Anyway, such fluidity seems to be gated in other places as well. For example, some military-grade equipment I can use, other requires certain promotion despite being worse and outdated in comparison to modern stuff while being civilian-grade (you can legally buy it in certain countries IRL without additional permits).

Irrelevant. Also explained ad nauseam.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 11, 2018, 09:48:11 pm
(continued - character limit exceeded)

Same with alien tech. Sonic weapons and plasma ones I got long before working with laser (I believe the first ever alien whom I killed that dropped a plasma pistol). But it's again, years in game, with my men running around in cyber armors and flying in alien-tech-adjusted Skymarshals together with their psionic field hybrid compatriots fighting mutons, cyberdiscs and whatnot and those sonic and plasma guns still just rot in my storage. I mean, I got those weapons, I got them long time ago, shouldn't I be able to at least research them somewhat? I understand if I'd get a red-tape fluff of insufficient gear allowance from the council or other such stuff if I am not meant to use them but I fought aliens using them and got them fairly, sometimes at the price of lives - so it is balanced that I'd get to use them as well, at least after getting Promotion III.

Plasma weapons research has nothing to do with your status with the Council, it's based solely on theoretical tech.

So yeah, a lot of it can be made less gated/more fluid. From such tech and gear considerations, to stuff like interrogations, where I understand sometimes only specific type of alien possess specific knowledge, but the interrogation times and results are sometimes very inconsistent (some enemies take much longer to interrogate than others, very similar ones who shouldn't be more resistant etc).

I admit research times are still imperfect. I change them around all the time.

But.. it is very easy to do. Even I can do it, just let me turn currently-blocked option "Retain interrogate aliens" (which leaves their dead bodies after interrogation) on in advanced options!

I honestly can't remember why it was blocked, I must have had a reason. :P Most likely economy.
But I don't want to imply that all interrogated aliens end up vivisected. It was fine in vanilla, but here it's much less straightforward.
Just get a damn corpse, it's way easier. :P

True, and I think it's awesome thing you've done - I'd just hope for more such stuff at all stages of the game, sometimes even as a goal of some small mission, even if it's not vital to pushing the plot forward :P

I will do my best to deliver. ;)

Sure - looking forward to it! But like I've ranted earlier, a lot of linearity could be simply improved by not gating various things. Mixing improvement of that with various balancing (better weapons much more expensive to stock with ammo, some weapons good but cannot be made, only scavenged, some better in one stat but worse in the other) should take care of it as well!

I will keep it in mind.

It's not as much tree viewer as some things that do not appear in various places but should. Most item/people listings in workshop on 'info' middle-click does not tell me what are the stats of the item (giving me ufopedia item entry) but provides me with a topic and requirements as if I'd left-click the same item. I cannot check info in base information > stores on any item or personnel. I'd like to be able to see what information is left to be extracted from some captured gangster/cultist/alien outside of actually choosing them as a research topic for interrogation.

These are engine issues, I have no control over these. I suggest posting ideas on the OXCE+ thread.

But.. it is very easy to do. Even I can do it, just let me turn currently-blocked option "Retain interrogate aliens" (which leaves their dead bodies after interrogation) on in advanced options!

I honestly can't remember why it was blocked, I must have had a reason. :P Most likely economy.
But I don't want to imply that all interrogated aliens end up vivisected. It was fine in vanilla, but here it's much less straightforward.
Just get a damn corpse, it's way easier. :P

True, and I think it's awesome thing you've done - I'd just hope for more such stuff at all stages of the game, sometimes even as a goal of some small mission, even if it's not vital to pushing the plot forward :P

I will do my best to deliver. ;)

Sure - looking forward to it! But like I've ranted earlier, a lot of linearity could be simply improved by not gating various things. Mixing improvement of that with various balancing (better weapons much more expensive to stock with ammo, some weapons good but cannot be made, only scavenged, some better in one stat but worse in the other) should take care of it as well!

I will keep it in mind.

It's not as much tree viewer as some things that do not appear in various places but should. Most item/people listings in workshop on 'info' middle-click does not tell me what are the stats of the item (giving me ufopedia item entry) but provides me with a topic and requirements as if I'd left-click the same item. I cannot check info in base information > stores on any item or personnel. I'd like to be able to see what information is left to be extracted from some captured gangster/cultist/alien outside of actually choosing them as a research topic for interrogation.

These are engine issues, I have no control over these. I suggest posting ideas on the OXCE+ thread.

My sincere apologies for bothering you with more walls of text to read - I assure you, they're not an awesome fun to write either but it's all for the sake of the neverending thorough testing:

It's OK, I have a free evening. :D

UAC weapons. They're weird. The organization is some official one you can later make a proper relations with but there's actually no contact I recall for getting in touch with them to get official "regular weapons" stock. There probably should be something for it, but all UAC weapons for some reasons are in the hands of Cult of Apocalypse (which is weird, as theyr'e usually just ragtag of various subcultures - why would they need space-capable weaponry?) and it's from them that I had to get any before researching them and their acquisition.

All will be explained in due time!
(Hopefully.)

On top of that, certain items of their type are also questionable. UAC and MAGMA SMGs seem kinda pointless - they have two-hand requirement of a full-scale rifle, but are bulkier and heavier than pistols while not dealing much more damage at any distance, barring very inaccurate auto. Maybe making them more like BlackOps SMG would be good?

UAC has no SMG. O_O
M.A.G.M.A. has one, but it's completely incomparable to BlackOps.

Also, I don't think there is one weapon I which hasn't been characterized as "useless" by someone. :P

Also, a tiny inconsistency, naming BlackOps Sub-Machine Gun as such makes it not listed when one looks for "SMG". I also like BlackOps SMG shot graphic and sound implying that by default it's short bursts of fire - maybe same could be implied (with modification) to all SMGs? Or even make them behave like UAC rifles which indeed shoot in bursts only (3x30 damage)? Though I wouldn't mind single-shot-fire in either as well - is it possible to provide the weapon with different shot sounds/graphics depending on firemode used?

good point on the BlackOps SMG, it's kinda inconsistent. Fixed.
SMGs are different, there are at least 3 SMG classes... It works as intended.

Some ufopedia entries indeed are too big. Which is a shame. For example, VSS Vintorez rifle seems to have description go out of bounds with no way to scroll the text I could find. Scrolling of the text would be awesome, by the way, to add all the fluff to various reports we'd like to have - but I understand it's more of a thing Extended creators would have to make.

I'm working on these texts, they suddenly became too big after the damage/accuracy formulas were added.

Osprey probably shouldn't depend on all cult operations tech. I was flying around in skyrangers and with personal armor-clad troopers before getting operations of every cult/gang. Which isn't a bad thing on its own (non-linearity!) but kinda makes the vehicle useless.

Depends on the campaign. And the Council is not very reasonable.

I keep getting stunned hybrid drones but at the end of the mission I only get them in wrecked versions. Can't I just reprogram non-destroyed drone intead of rebuilding it from remains of one?

Hmm, I'll check why they die. I think they shouldn't.

Generally, since hybrids use just new approach and tech of normal human materials, it'd be nice to have a project allowing XCOM to reproduce all their stuff without needing to scavenge any base parts.

you can reproduce at least bmost of it... Anything in particular that is missing and doesn't make any sense?

Also, sometimes wrecks of cyberweb robots don't seem to register among loot, I don't know why.

I know why: because robots don't require prison cells. It's a minor issue I can't fix and don't want to bother Meridian about.

Enemies keep getting better weapons, Cult of Apocalypse runs around with UAC stuff and miniguns. Maybe as I improve my weapons, council salvagers, regular military and police could also get better stuff. Could be a research topic that allow some (human) weapons and armors to be spread with peacekeeping forces, at tiny bit of council dislike due to some councilmen prefering such technology to be strictly controlled (as is with sharing tritanium ammo tech with MAGMA).

Great idea. But please show me how to do this with this engine logic. :P

Tech tree viewer topics could also use some fluff if possible. Usually there's plenty of free space, being able to add a line of text summing up what the tech was meant to be ("This is request from MAGMA to be provided with X tech in return for access to special items catalogue of theirs", for example) would be helpful if possible.

Please contact Meridian with tech tree viewer suggestions, it's not a mod thing.

Female tomb guardian supposedly uses biochemicals to control zombies, vampire knight uses empathic abilities (not sure if empathy should fit - just call it innate, specialized psychic/psionic ability dependant either on the host, on the parasite or on combination of them). Standarizing them to use one, same method (I suggest psychic/psionic abilities as they seem the theme in general and more fitting for all-distance control in various environments than some pheromones) would be good.

It's always a mix of these (as is tyhe case with other life forms - they generally depend on multiple channels for communication). But the Guardians don't have psi abilities, even over other Zombies, they rely on simpler methods.

Also, if both are conscious and sentient, couldn't it be possible to perhaps ally with some, even if only through some unique/rare special mission? I understand not every friendly creature would qualify for permanent position like hybrids, some are just too inhuman and with no cloaking ability to hide among humans but armor-clad zombies (vampires) should at least be able to provide some support in some missions.

Theoretically yes, but... just finish this arc. :)

No matter how awesomely resistant and whatever is the material, unless it also doesn't have some superpowers (and it doesn't) and merely just bashes things when fashioned into a blunt weapon, shogg cudgel shouldn't deal more damage than average, human club (hell, it probably should deal less damage than some - and certainly NOT what it does). Same for the most of the rest of shogg weapons (though knives seem merely comparable to regular ones and a heavy maul is probably heavy no matter the quality of workmanship). I understand it's to make regular workers dangerous but they're workers, they shouldn't be dangerous to sci-fi armor decked, super trained agents. Please leave that to higher, better equipped classes in shogg society - the fact they have tough carapace withstanding military-grade rounds is enough of a balance for basic peons.

It's Reptoid magic!

Enemies in a shutdown ufo really are surprisingly sturdy. There's a huge, smoking hole in the hull, the ship likely was slamming into ground with quite some force - but almost whole crew is up and running at full efficiency, it seems. Talk about hi-tech airbags and seatbelts.

Which shutdown UFO? The only on I recall is the Dimension X wreck, but from the context it can't be about this one.

Would be nice if attacked base wouldn't be immediately lost without agents inside but would make some of the NPC take whatever weapons are in the storage. Or even that there'd be non-agent guards (NPCs generated in numberd depending on total crew quarters size, perhaps, or simply hireable like engineers but cheaper than agents and using their own weapons adjusted to current X-com level of tech or even upgradeable through various technologies and expenses together with the idea of improved salvagers, army and whatnot listed above?)

It would also be great if we had some representation of agents' social life around the base, like in The Sims. (No kidding - I've always wanted that.) But this is X-Com and we're working with X-Com mechanics only... sorry, but these ideas are as incompatible with the engine as the agents dating.

A small, but very welcome addition - Skymarshall would really use another set of door in the middle of the hull. It's elongated skyraider, to hold more troopers but it has only same number of exits, making deploying the agents and establishing a defensive perimeter without any congestion bothersome. Moving the wheels attached to the wings a tile further away from any doors (as they block exit in one direction) would also help this issue.

It would be good... Too good. :)
Also, it's a plane, not a train. ;)

Underground locations are a pain. Not only/merely in strategic sense but due to how enemies get often stuck in some crevices of rock unconnected to anything. Helluva hard to get to them even when going through rock, assuming one knows where they are (the automatically activated bug hunt mode is VERY useful here, thank you - without it I'd be probably too frustrated to finish some missions). Maybe make sure it's more interconnected, with wider corridors? Lowering weapon resistance of rock so regular multilauncher or whatnot rockets can damage those walls more reliably would also help.

I feel your pain and I keep working with the caves to make them nicer. In small steps.
But... soft rock? This, from such an avid defender or realism? :)

Lizard trap mentions scorpoid bandits. Never heard of them before. Who did we plan to hire, again?
Edit: Oh joy, I got some mission about an attack on some palace which was full of scorpoids. Fun thing, too, because I never seen any before, only feral lobstermen which are their palette original. Probably could use some work here - actual missions establishing contact and preparing the rebellions. Also, after this mission I at last could research reptoid ship - kinda gatey too, I should probably be able to research those much earlier given how many I secured from aquatoids.

I didn't want to spend too much time on this. Maybe later.

Why can I produce alien laser rifle? Humans have their own (can also produce just regular "laser rifle"), they're not aliens!

Because it's a Cydonian design, as opposed to other (human) lasers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 11, 2018, 09:48:26 pm
(continued - character limit exceeded)

I Invented advanced underwater warfare, still got crappy small sub for basic underwater missions like the USO one (underwater ship with a few aquatoids).


This depends on the mission, not the research. In short, technical limitations.

Also, the same mission seems to have no chance of getting a squad leader. As is the case of most other alien ships - often it's usually bunch of soldiers, navigators and engineers. Shouldn't a squad leader be in, well, every squad bigger than just a couple of enemies?

That USO only has soldiers and navigators.

Tech tree viewer leads to some text overspill (open the picture separately/use most browsers' "show image" option if it seems cut):

Yep, it's a bug. I think you have an outdated version.

Certain techs/interrogations do not mash up captured enemies into a group properly (2x red ops soldiers):

They're of different genders, hence the two items. (But they yield the same results.)

Panicked vampire knight picked up a weapon it shouldn't know how to use well, yet alone like a professional soldier:

Probably hard to modify the creature to not pick it up at all (though if possible, please do) but even if it does, it shouldn't shoot or at least shoot well (very low firing accuracy).

They probably train with the crossbows. But more importantly, they are superhuman beings - and still they only have 40 accuracy, which is less than your shittiest rookie.

That's it for now. Once again, I apologize for the wall of text and I remind you that it's just findings and thoughts shared as suggestions, hoping to fix and improved various bits of the game. So, thanks again for your work and till, possibly, next time (since there's quite some more content for me to go through and possibly for various issues associated with it).

Thanks for the detailed post! I hope I've answered to a satisfactory effect (I skipped some stuff, still took me 2 hours lol).
A new version is coming soon, I hope you will like it!

Having lots of fun with this mod! Thank you! Just discovered this last week...in fact it's my first xcom mod.

Hello and welcome!

My playstyle has been playing on very easy, with some soft savescumming (basically loading if I fail a mission, saving if I can complete it regardless of losses).

X-Com Files is a relatively difficult mod, so no need to feel ashamed about savescumming a little, especially if you are not an X-Com veteran.
Still, I recommend playing at least on the second difficulty, as the easiest is just cheaty (all enemies have their armours halved). But it's up to you, I left Novice in for a reason.

I am 20 months in, I've terminated Exalt, Dagon, Black Lotus and working on the Red Dawn HQ at the moment...I've seen some hybrid/magmas and one alien party, haven't seen any landings yet. Haven't done any underwater things yet, I remember the Church of Dagon and Messengers of Dagon being related to underwater stuff but it never seems to have materialised.

You are doing very well!

I really love the gameplay variety between all the factions, you also really nailed investigation/lore building aspects...I'm constantly pulled with how the story and gameplay evolves as I research things.

Good to hear! :)

If I were to sum up some of the things I would really like to see being adjusted, it would be:

I LOVE the massive weapon variety, but I feel like I've been using BlackOps Pistols for the whole game due to their fantastic damage/TUcost/accuracy/weight.

Understandable. But 1) they aren't that easy to get, 2) they are supposed to be better than the standard guns since they're hi-tech (and expensive), 3) not everyone thinks they're the best. I personally think they're fine as they are, but it depends on your playstyle a lot.

The thing that excited me the most about this mod was how it felt like it was fusing XCOM EU and TFTD, and while I've seen tons of assets being used from TFTD I feel like that expectation wasn't quite met. Submarine tech, underwater weapons, underwater zones, etc. I've read there is some underwater content, but after 20+ months all I've seen is some surface tilesets and some enemies. I would love to at least have some base facilities that focus on underwater content, or maybe building a base that focuses on that specifically.

Nothing like that yet, but the underwater arc is growing steadily. Helrica helped a lot with adding more stuff.

Can't wait for 1.0!

This will take a while. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: tkzv on September 12, 2018, 01:04:47 am
To address those two points:Neither description, nor stats used for performing with the weapon nor the description of wielders themsevles suggests anything of such kind. So I'd risk claiming that no, they're not psionically empowered at all.
Then it was some other Shogg melee weapon.
Aren't according to the lore itself the whole artificial gravity generation a function of the engines (which are now destroyed)?
Yes. And if missiles are repelled by some sort of force field, that should also be the engines' job.
So, the engines start malfunctioning after too many hits. The crew tries to land. By quickly accelerating toward the surface, and then quickly decelerating. There's a chance an already damaged engine will explode from such treatment. But whether it would explode before completely stopping the ship or after, depends largely on the engine design. Thus it's possible for the ship to land intact, save for the engine itself.

This explanation does not explain why ships that decelerate above water always sink. If you have any texts from the official manuals that contradicts it, I'd be glad to see it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: MK12 on September 12, 2018, 11:42:37 pm
I found missing tech. Zrbite tank didnt give me zrbite after extract(previous ver). What name of this research in save?
This tank only appear once. I cant get another 1.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 13, 2018, 12:02:41 am
I found missing tech. Zrbite tank didnt give me zrbite after extract(previous ver). What name of this research in save?
This tank only appear once. I cant get another 1.

Nothing changed here. But fine, I will make it so you don't lose the Zrbite - it doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on September 14, 2018, 07:04:17 pm
Here I come again, this time just to address stuff we already talked about. You can sight with relief, no additional stuff to report (yet :P). To limit the size further, stuff which I just acknowledge or have nothing to add about I simply not quoted - but rest assured, the message only may appear stern because of less thanks, your work is still appreciated :)

Don't worry, I read everything with care. But answering in full takes a lot of time, and sometimes I prefer to keep it short... I need that time to mod, as I have a real job too. ;)

Fully understandable. As long as they address my admittedly longish reports - short answers are fine.

Anyway, show me a game which does it realistically...

Is that another challenge? As a roguelike and indie game player I could think of a title or two :P
But I agree, we don't need fully realistic lethability, the point is...

I never returned to that game, by the way. So as you see, these things bother me too. But in XCF I think it's okay.

...that in XCF in general it IS okay, I'd just like some basic creatures slightly less durable for the sake of underlining progression of the world and relative strength between NPCs. When I see a cop who has to empty half a magazine from his gun to kill a rat, scorpion or some other spider, it just looks plain silly and kills the point of the cop being there - if only for immersion - in the first place. The same underwhelming experience is when I get some supposedly militar-grade awesome gun and it still doesn't do noticeably more against basic enemies.

Same with various other effects regarding armor of some enemies. I once did a test and it turned out that in case of some more armored enemies a dart gun has such a bad penetration that for my brawny agents it's easier to literally punch the same character into a knockout.

Well... Yes, but still I fail to see what is wrong with the article. I mean, using psi is basically the same thing as using a toilet...

Isn't your answer kinda a good explanation in itself how certain representations may be misleading in what's a scientist's report? The same way (I am willing to hope given your work so far) you'd rather avoid writing "Commander, we managed to potty-train our operatives into psionic abilities. They now can do number one and number two, and even wipe afterwards as like if it's magic!" to actually not make people think it's literal toilet training that gives them abilities, so I think we should avoid abstrct explanation of doing math, especially since it's just a hypothesis that could as well apply to anything else, like the toilet use we mentioned and thus doesn't provide anything useful to explain the psychic abilities.

We do keep the discussion about what's a pretty minor thing though :P

OK, maybe at a later time. I can't spend too much time adding alternative paths and so on to everything, even though I'd love to. Let me finish the big stuff first.

Fully understandable.

Wait, how could you see X-Com Psiclones without havcing researched Psiclones? X-Com Psiclones require Psiclones and Metapsychology. Or did I change it after the last rlease?

Again, no idea, it does seem weird and thus it's why I report it as a potential bug :P

Possible, but only partailly. And there are some hints already, for the biggest and smallest groups.

I'd be fine with it being partial and vague. I'd just like to know the biggest differences in strange life missions so I know I can send, say, a pickup truck rather than a skymarshall full of blaster-totting cyber armor-clad shock troopers halfway around the world because people have seen just a single big scorpion.

I don't want to give them the standard hovering sound, it's way too technical. But I'm open to other sounds.

Some ambient tone/white noise, perhaps?

Hmm, but what is the difference between the "box" and the "strip"? In shape only?

Well.. what obviously the very words suggest - one is an enclosed box with cartridges (bullets) inside, the other a strip to which the bullets are connected. Sometimes the strip even lands in the box, too!

And then more hours to do the Polish version. And force every single translator to do this work too. It's not worth it.
Also, after a brief check, I think English is the only language which distincts between the two... :P

Exactly, it shouldn't be a problem and in most cases translators wouldn't have much of any additional work, like in case of Polish you mention, where as far I know it's indeed only one, more "modern" (and thus more fitting majority of situations) term - "magazynek".

Sadly, this doesn't work like this. The toggle is global, so you can't turn the lights on for one agent and not all of them. This IMO kills the idea on the tactical level.

Why? I don't recall it using any TU, so it can be turned on even temporarily and then disabled before end of the turn. Sure, it's not the ideal way but it allows adding proper strength suit lights without compromising tactical decisions - everyone's happy.

Er...
Human sacrifices are recoverable to give you a monetary reward.
Farmer corpses are recoverable to give you a monetary penalty.
Random corpses are of no interest to you, so why force the micromanagement on the player. (This was actually hard to do and required some tricky new code.)
Bones and such are there because... well, you can't just leave them lying around... Isn't this natural? (Also lol at the "unfairness" of burying a bone for $100. Seriously?)

Yes, and I claim it's not only inconsistent but needlessly gamey and kinda killing th immersion of other, more developed parts. Sure, we could also make agents pick up levitating coins a'la Mario to get them cash or whatnot but it'd be kinda similar (even if more noticeable) kind of immersion breaking. Acquisition of corpses should be only for the sake of research, due to their other practical value (disassembly at manufacturing) or due to their worth as items of extraterrestrial origin that grey/black market should be interested in. The same way XCOM isn't interested in random civilian corpses, surf boards, empty beer bottles etc it shouldn't be interested in random bones, farmer corpses and similar and leave them to council cleaners or whoever is cleaning the action scene after the battle (I did assume it's the cleaners because otherwise - what IS their job?).

There's just so many more and better ways to provide monetary gain - including some of the stuff you've already added, like actual piles of cash, fancy items, documents and artifacts! No need to go cheap corpse route. I also think that adding items just to penalize players when they're already penalized, for example, for letting that farmer become a corpse in the first place - is kind of trolling and even simply encouragement that the player shouldn't give a crap about items you've took time to add, and just burn them all during the round to avoid penalties.

Short answer: life in unfair. XCF was never meant to ber fair. I don't like fair games, they feel artificial and hand-holdy. Sorry, it's how I roll.
On the flip side, I only do unfair stuff that is minor and inconsequential. I don't approve of trolling players.

I'd risk making distinction between just and fair. Certain unfairness is to be expected in the game in big part guided by RNG - and I am okay with that, again - as a roguelike player I know games much more hardcore and brutal in their randomness than XCOM and even enjoy some of them. As long as it's justified I think it's alright and it's the lack of consistency and the arbitrary aspect of it that seems unjust with the farmer corpses and similar "hah, you found an item and in reward we'll screw you over with a penalty and more clicking in getting rid of it for not even token financial gain as it takes space in your storage/end of the mission screen" that may not be big, but is kinda trolling you mention opposing.

Indeed, it's not huge, I fully agree - and I doubt anyone's games were vitally impacted by having to pay to get rid of some farmer's corpse. But it's still kind of like flipping a bird to the player at the end of the mission and may spoil the mood when the mission was already hard won at considerable sacrifices and negative score that will penalize the player during monthly report.

I don't get which ones you refer to... I need more info.

Pretty much the ones I already refered to.

I honestly don't think it's a bug, but if you encounter it, please let me know.

Will do!

It's a pretty favourable view. At least half of it wants you dead, a vocal minority tries to sell you as the best thing since sliced bread, and the rest doesn't care.
These people literally rule the world, it's all politics to them.

I guess that in big part it's so, though I like to think they still have to maintain facade of support - after all, it has to explain giving me more cash for providing results and offering effective resistance gainst aliens. Not to mention fluff when the council does reward me and provides me with benefits, info, data (recovered the mothballed fighter jet not long ago - it's not much and I probably won't unpack it anytime soon since it's already way behind my squadron of sentinel fighters - but it's a nice, immersive gimmick I really appreciate!)

It's... complicated. I don't really want to go into details here, because spoilers and such.

I think I know which spoiler you have in mind and yeah - I took it into account! Some genuine support has to be there, even if reluctant and only getting in favorable position for the spoiler-related stuff. If the council would be directly oppossed to the XCOM initiative, they'd undermine themselves.

I wanted to preserve the "UFO Defense" title as a homage.

I guess I can understand that. But may I suggest that the homage be moved onto some other fluff element? By the time we get that title it's already outdated and even outright laughtably silly as many of the unidentified flying objects are well identified and the organisation deals with plenty of stuff beside flying objects and their passengers.

No! :D

Darn! Well, let me know if you'll change your mind - knowing some indie and even outright niche games (and even contributing to the development of some of them myself), I may be able to set you up if you'd look for something unique :P

Theoretically yes, but interrogating a random type is not enough to build a model.
I could bloat the game by spending weeks on creating all sorts of interconnections between researches, fluff told by Tomb Guardians, special conditions for advanced Zombie missions etc., but come on... Let's not get ridiculous.

I cannot fully commit myself yet but if you'd like and could spot me with a design document of any sort of current research interconnectedness, I could look at it in the future and try work out something here without bothering you with it in any way short of actually implementing it. I already somewhat contribute to some games and like most people - have also certain responsibilities IRL - but I don't mind giving to the project as per completely voluntary, all-rights-go-to-you work. As these walls of text hopefully prove :P

Why the hell not? How are we supposed to categorize them, Life Form #1543?

Nah, zombie is fine. It's just a matter of consistency. If it's zombies, then advanced zombies are still zombies. Zombie Knight, Zombie Tomb Guardian, Zombie Queen sound alright too. If one needs to underline how much advanced they are to regular zombies, that may be done in the description (and it already is, nearly all of them do underline how those vampires are more brainy, their bodies work better etc) - but currently, it may confuse some players why are they fighting zombies and suddenly vampires, which are very different type of creature normally in most fantastic subgenres.

Plasma weapons research has nothing to do with your status with the Council, it's based solely on theoretical tech.

I assume so, yes, the point being that maybe some access to it or relevant tech could be shuffled around because you get items gathering dust in the storage in-game years before being able to really research them. I mean, desperate fight for humanity's survival, we have those super weapons that would really help save so many lives lying around and we cannot even figure out how to use them, yet alone produce anything based on them?

I actually don't ask to be able to go fully plasma straight away - it's just it's a bit silly they're treated as if they'd not exist at all for so, so long, as is in case of sonic weapons. Even some sort of preliminary research that simply would tell me "hey, we cannot make our own (yet) but if you want and can scavenge enough of it - here's the trigger and here's the battery release - give it to our agents" would be great!

But I don't want to imply that all interrogated aliens end up vivisected. It was fine in vanilla, but here it's much less straightforward.

I do recall you having certain qualms about it in the past, but in the end it did end pretty straightforward - currently everyone and everything that can be stunned, interrogated and leave a corpse can also be dissected and things that cannot be dissected don't leave a corpse in the first place.

Just get a damn corpse, it's way easier.

But that's the issue that started this part of the whole exchange! I blame my post being so long the mind expunges their content from the memory. :P
To remind, the issue is that sometimes I am forced to either get the enemy alive or dead because said enemy is so rare I often cannot get both for a long, long time or, if RNG is not favorable - may be theoretically unattainable at all (again, despite being in the latter part of the game with sci-fi blaster guns and whatnot, there are creatures I only seen once and many of those I did see more than once often took in-game years between sightings). If I go the harder, more demanding and often risky way of getting them alive - I shouldn't sacrifice a chance to get the corpse for that, is all I am saying.

UAC has no SMG. O_O

What.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/anom6h.png)
The gig is up! In reality I'm your associate from the future/alternate dimension, here to help you introduce changes and improvements lack of which you would regret when reminiscing in your old age! Ohohoh! :P

(continued in the next post though something's fishy as I used two different online character counters and the whole past wasn't over 20000 even when whitespace was taken into account)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: justaround on September 14, 2018, 07:04:39 pm
I know why: because robots don't require prison cells. It's a minor issue I can't fix and don't want to bother Meridian about.

But why I can sometimes get both their wrecks and stunned versions?  :o

Great idea. But please show me how to do this with this engine logic. :P

Hmm.. alright. It'd be a bit hacky, but I guess we could use the same system that introduces new/better equipped aliens, at least as far as I think it works. Even just making variation of the missions dependant on techs already discovered would work. For example, pretech it spawns a mission with some zombies and regular military, but after discovering that tech it blocks that particular mission but activates possibility of it's carbon copy - except in that copy, the soldier spawn with upgraded equipment.

Which shutdown UFO?

Whoops, a typo. I meant any generic shot down UFO.

But this is X-Com and we're working with X-Com mechanics only... sorry, but these ideas are as incompatible with the engine as the agents dating.

Why? It could probably be hacked in the way vehicle battlescape turrets or those upgraded soldiers could be. Simply have base map spawn armed council security NPCs the way some town maps spawn civilians - and we're set. Probably one of them would have to be non-NPC though, some sort of security captain as I suspect with all-NPC crew the mission would end immediately.

It would be good... Too good. :)
Also, it's a plane, not a train. ;)

Come on, don't be like that! Millions of dollars of research went into it, hours upon hours of labwork and my scientists give me already old skyraider with a longer hull? :P
Some more doors and other such bits in improved skyraider brothers wouldn't be that much of an improvement in a combat but would show that all this cash and time went into some basic field data-stemming improvements!

But... soft rock? This, from such an avid defender or realism? :)

Believability! :P
Plus, it's realistic that an average rocket that can take out a tank can also crumble a section of a rock wall! :P

Certainly it'd help in situations like this one:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/o02uyf.jpg)
..where this time it's not enemies that were stuck in rock but my whole craft. There seems like a 1-tile wide passage on the northern side which shouldn't need widening, but it was still a no-go for a pathfinding, practically making me stuck at the craft in the very beginning of the mission.

Because it's a Cydonian design, as opposed to other (human) lasers.

Yes, but.. I'm not a Cydonian (or am I?) and it has no advantage over any other designs. If it's admitted to general use there's also no reason why the researcher would suggest making fully human model. And it would also mean that I should be able to make all other alien weapons of similar complexity rather than human ones because they're all Cydonian models! Consistency, woo! :P

Once again, thank you for your work and till later (yes, potentially more walls of text, I know it's scary, bear me with me please!).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 14, 2018, 08:24:26 pm
Today a very concise answer - I have lots of stuff to do :)

When I see a cop who has to empty half a magazine from his gun to kill a rat, scorpion or some other spider

Oh come on, rats are ultra squishy. And arthropods are well armoured.

Isn't your answer kinda a good explanation in itself how certain representations may be misleading in what's a scientist's report?

I really don't see your point, sorry.

Again, no idea, it does seem weird and thus it's why I report it as a potential bug

It looks fine, but please let me know when it happens again. Could be whatever.

Why? I don't recall it using any TU, so it can be turned on even temporarily and then disabled before end of the turn. Sure, it's not the ideal way but it allows adding proper strength suit lights without compromising tactical decisions - everyone's happy.

Not really, because all your people are seen by the enemies for a moment. And become fair game for snipers and chargers.

Yes, and I claim it's not only inconsistent but needlessly gamey and kinda killing th immersion of other, more developed parts. Sure, we could also make agents pick up levitating coins a'la Mario to get them cash or whatnot but it'd be kinda similar (even if more noticeable) kind of immersion breaking. Acquisition of corpses should be only for the sake of research, due to their other practical value (disassembly at manufacturing) or due to their worth as items of extraterrestrial origin that grey/black market should be interested in. The same way XCOM isn't interested in random civilian corpses, surf boards, empty beer bottles etc it shouldn't be interested in random bones, farmer corpses and similar and leave them to council cleaners or whoever is cleaning the action scene after the battle (I did assume it's the cleaners because otherwise - what IS their job?).

I honestly don't understand your issue here. You only take items you can't ignore, like civilian corpses after a situation where you can't wash your hands off it.
Sure you'd rather not care about them, but you can't.


There's just so many more and better ways to provide monetary gain - including some of the stuff you've already added, like actual piles of cash, fancy items, documents and artifacts! No need to go cheap corpse route. I also think that adding items just to penalize players when they're already penalized, for example, for letting that farmer become a corpse in the first place - is kind of trolling and even simply encouragement that the player shouldn't give a crap about items you've took time to add, and just burn them all during the round to avoid penalties.

Meh. doesn't sound convincing to me. I think it's some mental construct I can't really grok.

I guess I can understand that. But may I suggest that the homage be moved onto some other fluff element

...what is your peroblem with this? It's, like, totally random. I'm trying to understand, but it's just whaaaaaa? to me.

I cannot fully commit myself yet but if you'd like and could spot me with a design document of any sort of current research interconnectedness, I could look at it in the future and try work out something here without bothering you with it in any way short of actually implementing it.

I honestly am grateful for the offer, but implementing another person's work of this sort takes as much time as doing it myself, if not longer. I'd rather hear raw ideas.
If you want to contribute (not only to my mod, but to the entire community), I suggest doing making resources - graphics, texts, maps, etc.

Nah, zombie is fine. It's just a matter of consistency. If it's zombies, then advanced zombies are still zombies. Zombie Knight, Zombie Tomb Guardian, Zombie Queen sound alright too. If one needs to underline how much advanced they are to regular zombies, that may be done in the description (and it already is, nearly all of them do underline how those vampires are more brainy, their bodies work better etc) - but currently, it may confuse some players why are they fighting zombies and suddenly vampires, which are very different type of creature normally in most fantastic subgenres.

This sort of consistency is unnecessary, because it's not scientists who give names to creatures. I'm sure at least some of them are mildly annoyed too, but other X-Com personnel doesn't care.
Such clinical precision would be misplaced.

I assume so, yes, the point being that maybe some access to it or relevant tech could be shuffled around because you get items gathering dust in the storage in-game years before being able to really research them. I mean, desperate fight for humanity's survival, we have those super weapons that would really help save so many lives lying around and we cannot even figure out how to use them, yet alone produce anything based on them?

I actually don't ask to be able to go fully plasma straight away - it's just it's a bit silly they're treated as if they'd not exist at all for so, so long, as is in case of sonic weapons. Even some sort of preliminary research that simply would tell me "hey, we cannot make our own (yet) but if you want and can scavenge enough of it - here's the trigger and here's the battery release - give it to our agents" would be great!

Adding some intermediary steps is definitely possible, but doing so in a way that wouldn't eclipse other branches is much harder. And I honestly don't see the need, either as a designer or a player.
Don't want them lying around? Just sell them!

I do recall you having certain qualms about it in the past, but in the end it did end pretty straightforward - currently everyone and everything that can be stunned, interrogated and leave a corpse can also be dissected and things that cannot be dissected don't leave a corpse in the first place.

And what does an autopsy it have to do with vivisection???

But that's the issue that started this part of the whole exchange! I blame my post being so long the mind expunges their content from the memory.

My memory is fine, I am just saying no. :P
It's not like the RNG can screw you over here, or even seriously inconvenience you. So the negatives prevail.


What.
(...)
The gig is up! In reality I'm your associate from the future/alternate dimension, here to help you introduce changes and improvements lack of which you would regret when reminiscing in your old age! Ohohoh! :P

Yeah, I totally derped out here... It's a recent addition, I just forgot about it. Only remembered its existence after I saw the resources for it. :P

But why I can sometimes get both their wrecks and stunned versions?

Like... A corpse and a "living" robot from the same unit???
OMG, if that's true, I must do something about this... would you have a save?

Why? It could probably be hacked in the way vehicle battlescape turrets or those upgraded soldiers could be. Simply have base map spawn armed council security NPCs the way some town maps spawn civilians - and we're set. Probably one of them would have to be non-NPC though, some sort of security captain as I suspect with all-NPC crew the mission would end immediately.

Sorry - I totally misunderstood your point before. Sure, adding extra defenders to base defence missions is possible. But I'm taking a slightly different approach: automatic turrets. Not in the next release yet, but there will be security cameras.

where this time it's not enemies that were stuck in rock but my whole craft. There seems like a 1-tile wide passage on the northern side which shouldn't need widening, but it was still a no-go for a pathfinding, practically making me stuck at the craft in the very beginning of the mission.

Caves being caves are the whole point, sorry :)
To reiterate: I like them like this!

Yes, but.. I'm not a Cydonian (or am I?) and it has no advantage over any other designs. If it's admitted to general use there's also no reason why the researcher would suggest making fully human model. And it would also mean that I should be able to make all other alien weapons of similar complexity rather than human ones because they're all Cydonian models! Consistency, woo!

The answer is simple: the Cydonian laser is ultra light. Earth lasers are heavier and therefore stronger.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Barth Gimble on September 15, 2018, 07:37:07 am
Thank you for all your hard work on this project. I recently discovered the X Com Files and am very much enjoying it. You definitely succeeded in providing a sense of intrigue for the player as the investigations proceed. I feel as though my agents started out probably being punished for something, e.g. "We got this crank call about some silly thing, send Jackson out there, he's not doing anything anyway," and then suspense builds as the investigations begin coming together to indicate horrible, ominous things are occurring all over the world.

I have a question. For my game I've changed the rank titles of the agents to something I like a little more, but I cannot find which file contains the definition of the "Captain" rank string. All the others are in the file en-US.yml, but I can't find "Captain" anywhere. What file has this definition?

As I said, I really like game you've put together here. Both the gameplay and the themes explored are entertaining and interesting. Given the zillions of details you've implemented, I'm impressed that I only occasionally see a minor bug here or there. Good job.

I abandoned the first playthrough I started because I felt I was doing quite poorly. I didn't quite get the importance of research, and fell behind. When starting my current (second) game, I changed the game start date to one year earlier (December 1995) and feel this has made the experience much better. Maybe veteran players cruise right through and know what needs to be done, but as a new player I've really needed that extra in-game time to make appropriate progress as I discover what's going on.

Overall, I'd say I've only noticed two problems I consider serious. The first is that a lot of unique missions disappear before I can get someone to the scene. They disappear from the globe even when targeted and a vehicle full of agents is on the way. This is pretty frustrating.

The only other design problem I see probably puts me at the other end of the spectrum from some others who have made comments. One can never please everybody, I guess. I'm sort of frustrated at what I consider all the gun porn in the mod. There are dozens of weapons that I wouldn't consider using and don't want, but I'm forced to spend time researching them anyway. It's confusing, trying to figure out trivial differences between very similar items. A better way in my opinion would be much more simplified. A set of guns you start out with filling various roles (smg, rifle, sniper rifle, etc), then an upgrage to "Black Ops" set, and so forth. I realize many players really get off on scrutinizing all the guns, but for me it's just tedious.

I also saw one minor bug I feel is worth reporting. On the Church of Dagon base assualt, the golden statue isn't automatically retrieved at the end of the mission. Agents actually have to pick it up and carry it around. Luckily I got 2 Church base missions and was able to get the statue in the second one, otherwise I would have missed out.

As I said, keep up the great work.  :) The mod is already very impressive and lots of fun. I'll be following to see what you come up with next.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.4: We Need a Bigger Gun
Post by: Niewiem on September 15, 2018, 11:40:56 am
Quote
I also saw one minor bug I feel is worth reporting. On the Church of Dagon base assualt, the golden statue isn't automatically retrieved at the end of the mission. Agents actually have to pick it up and carry it around. Luckily I got 2 Church base missions and was able to get the statue in the second one, otherwise I would have missed out.

It worked for me normally - did not pick it up and got it after mission...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2018, 09:28:53 pm
Thank you for all your hard work on this project. I recently discovered the X Com Files and am very much enjoying it. You definitely succeeded in providing a sense of intrigue for the player as the investigations proceed. I feel as though my agents started out probably being punished for something, e.g. "We got this crank call about some silly thing, send Jackson out there, he's not doing anything anyway," and then suspense builds as the investigations begin coming together to indicate horrible, ominous things are occurring all over the world.

Thank you!
I'm really happy this effect seems to work, at least somewhat. :)

I have a question. For my game I've changed the rank titles of the agents to something I like a little more, but I cannot find which file contains the definition of the "Captain" rank string. All the others are in the file en-US.yml, but I can't find "Captain" anywhere. What file has this definition?

The relevant string is:
Code: [Select]
  STR_CAPTAIN: "Captain"

It is not included in the strings for the mod, because it is the same as in the vanilla game, so I did not have to add the string. If you want to use a different term, you must add this line to the en-US file and of course edit the translation as desired.

I abandoned the first playthrough I started because I felt I was doing quite poorly. I didn't quite get the importance of research, and fell behind. When starting my current (second) game, I changed the game start date to one year earlier (December 1995) and feel this has made the experience much better. Maybe veteran players cruise right through and know what needs to be done, but as a new player I've really needed that extra in-game time to make appropriate progress as I discover what's going on.

Admittedly, this mod is hard. Wasn't exactly my direct intention, but if you start making things fair for the AI, this is kinda inevitable... :)

Overall, I'd say I've only noticed two problems I consider serious. The first is that a lot of unique missions disappear before I can get someone to the scene. They disappear from the globe even when targeted and a vehicle full of agents is on the way. This is pretty frustrating.

I understand, but otherwise there would be no incentive to build new bases or research faster transports. The overall balance accounts for this, so it shouldn't hamper your campaign, but it surely is frustrating.

The only other design problem I see probably puts me at the other end of the spectrum from some others who have made comments. One can never please everybody, I guess. I'm sort of frustrated at what I consider all the gun porn in the mod. There are dozens of weapons that I wouldn't consider using and don't want, but I'm forced to spend time researching them anyway. It's confusing, trying to figure out trivial differences between very similar items. A better way in my opinion would be much more simplified. A set of guns you start out with filling various roles (smg, rifle, sniper rifle, etc), then an upgrage to "Black Ops" set, and so forth. I realize many players really get off on scrutinizing all the guns, but for me it's just tedious.

I wouldn't say gun porn, there definitely aren't enough guns for that. :D
But to the point: f you aren't interested in a particular model, you an right-click it in the purchase screen to hide it. You will never see it again, except in the "Hidden" category.

I also saw one minor bug I feel is worth reporting. On the Church of Dagon base assualt, the golden statue isn't automatically retrieved at the end of the mission. Agents actually have to pick it up and carry it around. Luckily I got 2 Church base missions and was able to get the statue in the second one, otherwise I would have missed out.

Honestly I have no idea what to say to this, as this is physically impossible.
Most likely the statue was somehow destroyed during the mission.

As I said, keep up the great work.  :) The mod is already very impressive and lots of fun. I'll be following to see what you come up with next.

Thank you!
Expect a new version VERY soon :)


EDIT: Version 0.9.5 has been released.
- New weapons: Stapler (sprite by Badfella), Electric Prod (Stun Rod is now a more advanced and better weapon), Wrench (sprite by Dioxine), Crowbar.
- New armors: Work Suit (human and hybrid), Seabot (AI).
- New terrains: Rural, Native Junkfarm, Urban Dawn.
- New units: Male Tomb Guard, Female Farmer (both by Dioxine), Dragonfire Turret, X-Com Security Camera (now in all corridors!).
- New mission: Industrial Investigation.
- New Staff Input (by samuelroy21).
- New palettes for Mars, undersea missions and sewers (by Bloax and Dioxine).
- Added ambient sound to underwater locations.
- Added Dog Bark (designed by Ivan Dogovich and Starving Poet).
- Added Ufopaedia articles for most built-in weapons.
- Added an article on the Luxury Car.
- Added several missing Combat Analysis articles.
- Added a cutscene after the Dimension X Wreck mission.
- Added a Corridor to the starting base.
- Increased Terror Mission size to 60x60.
- Shogg villages are height 6.
- More exit tiles in the Vampire Castle.
- Increased Terror Ship crews.
- Added more spawn points to X-Com bases.
- All Hovertanks now require 6 Grav Modules.
- Zrbite is now buyable from Hydrospace Dynamics.
- Tanks underwater are restricted to the Seabot armor.
- Synthsuit is now a bit stealthy.
- New sprites for the UAC weapons (by Badfella).
- Added paperdoll for the Female Doctor.
- Alien Drone weapon is somewhat stronger.
- Vampires got an unarmed attack.
- Improved the EXALT Liquidation and Syndicate Assassination missions (now all civilians start inside).
- Decreased points reward on Asylum Apparitions.
- New hybrid names (cooperation with Dioxine).
- New Hooligan sprites (by Augur).
- New Gunship paperdoll (by Ivan Dogovich).
- Improved Reptoid Commando paperdoll.
- Unified text formats between craft articles.
- Fixed too bright lights on scout drones.
- Fixed incorrect Power Suit torso on female Hybrids.
- Fixed Floater Legionnaire inventory pic.
- Fixed Giant Beetle sprites (by Augur).
- Fixed Skyranger and Skymarshall sell prices.
- Fixed some desert blocks.
- Fixed incorrect terrain texture coordinates.
- Fixed premature access to the Gunship and the BlackOps Smartgun.
- Fixed some minor issues with ammo purchases.
- Many adjustments (thanks BT Axis) and fixes.

This is the first version which was released only on the new mod.io portal. If there's any trouble with the download, please let me know!

And here are some screens with the new stuff:

Worker armour:
(https://i.imgur.com/yUoHT0Y.png)

X-Com security camera:
(https://i.imgur.com/BFjYCRF.png)

New underwater armour for the AI:
(https://i.imgur.com/yDwzAyW.png)

New village terrain:
(https://i.imgur.com/Qr24WgD.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/69b6h4k.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/dmIUGCY.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/oj1aGcg.png)

New native "junk farm" terrain (reskinned from Hobbes' "Native" terrain):

(https://i.imgur.com/GX8hxXT.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/7ctlNMS.png)

New Urban Dawn terrain (vanilla city reskinned with Hobbes' Dawn Urban terrain):

(https://i.imgur.com/PGeNcoz.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/lw5mjb5.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on September 16, 2018, 10:14:05 pm
Electric Prod (Stun Rod is now a more advanced and better weapon)
They have the same damage, Stun Rod is 1-handed and faster, but Electric Prod has better accuracy and costs less energy. Is this that much better?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2018, 10:24:31 pm
They have the same damage, Stun Rod is 1-handed and faster, but Electric Prod has better accuracy and costs less energy. Is this that much better?

In my opinion, definitely yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 16, 2018, 11:05:40 pm
Do the X-com security cameras only spawn in corridors or do they spawn in all X-com Facilities, it would make sense but maybe not for the hangar for balancing sake.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 16, 2018, 11:18:12 pm
Do the X-com security cameras only spawn in corridors or do they spawn in all X-com Facilities, it would make sense but maybe not for the hangar for balancing sake.

Only in the corridors. Otherwise the coridors won't be special enough. :)
And the next step will be: advanced Corridors (with automatic turrets). So the Corridor with cameras is like, level 0 of this building. I might even make more levels up to automatic plasma cannons :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 17, 2018, 08:55:03 pm
Only in the corridors. Otherwise the coridors won't be special enough. :)
And the next step will be: advanced Corridors (with automatic turrets). So the Corridor with cameras is like, level 0 of this building. I might even make more levels up to automatic plasma cannons :)
Sounds cool.

I am a noob at the game though, my current playthrough is the furthest I've gotten, almost eliminating Red Dawn. I still need a leader if I remember but they are such a pain to stun and capture.
I tried the dart rifle but they seem to be really bad for this and I don't want to run my super elite crew with 100+ kills each to stun him. But I don't want to get a bunch of really bad raw recruits to do it ethier.

On another note where to elite soldiers spawn because regular soliders seem really bad for trained professionals.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on September 17, 2018, 09:33:54 pm
I tried the dart rifle but they seem to be really bad for this
Have you tried the dart pistol?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 17, 2018, 10:04:26 pm
Have you tried the dart pistol?
No but I assumed it would be just as bad or worse.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Barth Gimble on September 19, 2018, 12:13:58 am
Is is possible to add a smidge of storage space to the one-man fighter crafts? After shooting down a UFO, I get the option for the fighter plane to land there. If it's a really small UFO, with only two or three aliens expected to survive the crash, it's not unreasonable to just have the pilot land his fighter and check out the scene. In these cases, it would be nice to have a sidearm and maybe a healing spray, instead of having to punch out one of the aliens with fists and take its weapon.

Edited:
Doh! That's already possible. Never mind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: legionof1 on September 19, 2018, 12:19:18 am
My compliments to the author of the new farm tileset, those are nice farm houses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 19, 2018, 01:01:48 pm
My compliments to the author of the new farm tileset, those are nice farm houses.

Thank you!
The tileset is mostly myself, but the maps are mostly Dioxine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: deltatree4 on September 20, 2018, 06:39:13 pm
The new update is great but I think  we need more equipment for breacing walls: like Breacing charge or some kind of hammer. Holigan tools might do the trick maybe with the size of the fire extinguisher. I'am telling you this because in some maps (i.e. sewer) it is really unpleasent to waste ammo on a wall.

Do you think that would be too much difficult or unbalenced to have some Night Vision googles (or even Thermal or Both ::)) for our troops?Yes I know we have NV in Bio armor but it will be good to have the option to  be more versatile with other armor suit.

Thanks for the time you are spendig with this mod. I' am loving it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 20, 2018, 07:19:34 pm
The new update is great but I think  we need more equipment for breacing walls: like Breacing charge or some kind of hammer. Holigan tools might do the trick maybe with the size of the fire extinguisher. I'am telling you this because in some maps (i.e. sewer) it is really unpleasent to waste ammo on a wall.

I will think about it, though in most cases you are best off using explosives.

Do you think that would be too much difficult or unbalenced to have some Night Vision googles (or even Thermal or Both ::)) for our troops?Yes I know we have NV in Bio armor but it will be good to have the option to  be more versatile with other armor suit.

Sorry, this is an armour feature, not an item feature. So vision can only be set per armour.
(Well there are scripts, but I don't think they're robust enough yet.)

Thanks for the time you are spendig with this mod. I' am loving it.

Thank you, and please keep playing!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: deltatree4 on September 22, 2018, 02:25:20 pm
Hi me again, I've got some mission idea:

1)Hostage rescue: The cult of apocalypse took some hostages  inside a building to sacrifice in front of people( i.e Tv station map)
Note: hostage should be stunned (to be easy to carry out for extraction) and easy to recognise (yellow suits, eyes bandage and hands tied).
the mission must have a timer of 20-25 turns.

2)Bomb defuse mission: You have limited time for defuse (i.e. like unprime a granade)  a bomb located in a specific and easy to recognise place. The bomb must be a unique sprite.

3) Oil platform (offshore) siege and more boat assault. ( They do that just for terrorism and procure founds for the cult).

4)A combination of previous mission.

If this is undoable I apologise for my incompetence on this field.
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 22, 2018, 04:09:42 pm
Yay, timed missions! Who doesn't love them! :D

Hostage rescue is possible, in fact it's fairly typical - there are some hostage rescue missions, like the beach sacrifices.
Bomb defuse is already in the game, albeit pretty late (the silo attack).
Oil platform? Sure, but who makes the maps? :D Maybe at some point, it's a cool location, especially in TFTD mods. More cruise liner missions are also possible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Barth Gimble on September 23, 2018, 01:18:55 am
I find the special "undercover" missions like beach and ski resorts to be some of the most entertaining scenarios in the game. More of these would be fun, both in variety and frequency.

I don't know much about the underlying mechanics of modding the game either, but given that proviso one idea that seems like it might be relatively simple  :o to make would be some undercover missions infiltrating theaters and entertainment venues. There could be several related sorts of adventures.

1) We get a tip something bad is going to happen at a movie theater. Investigating agents arrive to find that subliminal visual or audio in the movie has turned everyone in the audience into homocidal maniacs rampaging through the place. Or maybe it's something simpler, like a mutagenic chemical has been slipped into the popcorn that everyone ate, or bad guys dispersed some weird mutagenic fungus into the ventilation system.

2) We get a tip that a radio station is broadcasting hidden audio under their normal programming. These frequencies turn listeners into homocidal maniacs, into some kind of were-creatures, or maybe just there's reportedly a shockingly high incidence of suicide amongst listeners of the station. We investigate to shut the station down. Also, if you haven't seen the older movie "Pontypool," that would be good inspiration for storylines along this general direction.

3) We get a tip that a theater is staging a performance of a forbidden occult play, sort of like "The King in Yellow." Investigating agents find the actors are cultists, and the audience has either been driven insane or turned into some kind of monsters. Could be either occult or psi-related mechanisms involved.

4) Some kind of "phantom of the opera" is terrorizing theater-goers. Investigations reveal either that he is a cultist performing sacrifices, or some kind of were-creature, or some kind of psi-related fiend.

5) We get reports of a major disturbance at a dance hall or concert. Investigating agents arrive to find some strange frequency in the music has turned the audience members into some rioting monsters, or perhaps they've just been hypnotized in preparation for abduction for some nefarious experiment and must be rescued before some cult members load them onto buses.

6) We get reports that a movie director is planning to make an underground snuff film. It's a zombie movie-- using real zombies devouring unsuspecting actors! Agents need to infiltrate the movie set, arrest the director, save the actors, and eliminate the zombies. Maybe we also need to investigate just how the director acquired the zombies.

There could also be an undercover mission at a hostpital or clinic. Investigations reveal that patients check in, but they never check out. Maybe unsuspecting victims are being abducted for some kind of research, maybe they're being turned into

jarheads, or those creepy pink blob thingies I can't recall the name of

or who knows what else. This mission could unlock after discovering that the clinic was an advertiser on the radio station mentioned in #2 above, for example, or maybe the radio station is discovered after investigating the clinic and the fact it bought advertising time there.

These missions could all be in civilian clothes, with concealable equipment only.

Another thing that could be creepy would be if at some point in the game, a lower-level agent is randomly eliminated. We get a message telling us the unfortunate person committed suicide and was found in the barracks. It would have to be a random lower level person to avoid making the player rage-quit in case their favorite veteran got eliminated. Anyway, we find out the dead agent went insane after handling some occult artifact (again, maybe reading a "King in Yellow" script), or maybe they just couldn't handle the stress of comprehending aliens and eldritch beings. Some minor investigations (research and item acquisition) could be required to prevent this from happening again, or else occasionally another agent is found dead in the barracks.

Maybe these ideas aren't practical, or range too far outside the themes you want to explore, or there just isn't time to work on them. On the other hand I haven't actually finished a playthrough yet. The mod is already very good, and already filled with loads of content for players to explore  8), so for all I know you already have something like these things in there somewhere. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2018, 03:30:35 am
I find the special "undercover" missions like beach and ski resorts to be some of the most entertaining scenarios in the game. More of these would be fun, both in variety and frequency.

Good! One new was added in 0.9.5, more will probably appear later.

I don't know much about the underlying mechanics of modding the game either, but given that proviso one idea that seems like it might be relatively simple  :o to make would be some undercover missions infiltrating theaters and entertainment venues. There could be several related sorts of adventures.

Hmm, you mean the movie teatre from the "Commercial" urban terrain? Hmmm...

1) We get a tip something bad is going to happen at a movie theater. Investigating agents arrive to find that subliminal visual or audio in the movie has turned everyone in the audience into homocidal maniacs rampaging through the place. Or maybe it's something simpler, like a mutagenic chemical has been slipped into the popcorn that everyone ate, or bad guys dispersed some weird mutagenic fungus into the ventilation system.

I like the subliminal part :)
But what would be the goal? To incapacitate all the moviegoers without killing them? Sounds rather tedious.

2) We get a tip that a radio station is broadcasting hidden audio under their normal programming. These frequencies turn listeners into homocidal maniacs, into some kind of were-creatures, or maybe just there's reportedly a shockingly high incidence of suicide amongst listeners of the station. We investigate to shut the station down. Also, if you haven't seen the older movie "Pontypool," that would be good inspiration for storylines along this general direction.

Hmm, not a bad idea. What would your cover be here?
As for the terrain, maybe I could use the office building, just make it much shorter... It would look like a radio building.

3) We get a tip that a theater is staging a performance of a forbidden occult play, sort of like "The King in Yellow." Investigating agents find the actors are cultists, and the audience has either been driven insane or turned into some kind of monsters. Could be either occult or psi-related mechanisms involved.

These are cool concepts story-wise, but again, what would be mission objective? What is the player supposed to be doing? It's not clear to me.

4) Some kind of "phantom of the opera" is terrorizing theater-goers. Investigations reveal either that he is a cultist performing sacrifices, or some kind of were-creature, or some kind of psi-related fiend.

a bit specific. :) But... how about tying it to the future ghostbusting arc?

5) We get reports of a major disturbance at a dance hall or concert. Investigating agents arrive to find some strange frequency in the music has turned the audience members into some rioting monsters, or perhaps they've just been hypnotized in preparation for abduction for some nefarious experiment and must be rescued before some cult members load them onto buses.

I can see a pattern here... :P
Would be good for a timed mission maybe? But still no idea what the objective is. :P

6) We get reports that a movie director is planning to make an underground snuff film. It's a zombie movie-- using real zombies devouring unsuspecting actors!

I'm sorry... But after reading this I had to take a break, I was just ROFTLing so much. :)

Agents need to infiltrate the movie set, arrest the director, save the actors, and eliminate the zombies. Maybe we also need to investigate just how the director acquired the zombies.

Probably a Vampire agent?

There could also be an undercover mission at a hostpital or clinic. Investigations reveal that patients check in, but they never check out. Maybe unsuspecting victims are being abducted for some kind of research, maybe they're being turned into

jarheads, or those creepy pink blob thingies I can't recall the name of

or who knows what else. This mission could unlock after discovering that the clinic was an advertiser on the radio station mentioned in #2 above, for example, or maybe the radio station is discovered after investigating the clinic and the fact it bought advertising time there.

Nice.

Another thing that could be creepy would be if at some point in the game, a lower-level agent is randomly eliminated. We get a message telling us the unfortunate person committed suicide and was found in the barracks. It would have to be a random lower level person to avoid making the player rage-quit in case their favorite veteran got eliminated. Anyway, we find out the dead agent went insane after handling some occult artifact (again, maybe reading a "King in Yellow" script), or maybe they just couldn't handle the stress of comprehending aliens and eldritch beings. Some minor investigations (research and item acquisition) could be required to prevent this from happening again, or else occasionally another agent is found dead in the barracks.

I'm afraid this exceeds our available code by far.

Maybe these ideas aren't practical, or range too far outside the themes you want to explore, or there just isn't time to work on them. On the other hand I haven't actually finished a playthrough yet. The mod is already very good, and already filled with loads of content for players to explore  8), so for all I know you already have something like these things in there somewhere. Anyway, keep up the good work.

Thanks! And I'd appreciate if you could touch upon my questions above.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on September 23, 2018, 05:35:06 am
Quote
    1) We get a tip something bad is going to happen at a movie theater. Investigating agents arrive to find that subliminal visual or audio in the movie has turned everyone in the audience into homocidal maniacs rampaging through the place. Or maybe it's something simpler, like a mutagenic chemical has been slipped into the popcorn that everyone ate, or bad guys dispersed some weird mutagenic fungus into the ventilation system.

I like the subliminal part :)
But what would be the goal? To incapacitate all the moviegoers without killing them? Sounds rather tedious.
Simplest: the moviegoers are unconscious and the goal is to capture the cameraman before his partners in crime arrive, with as little collateral damage as possible.

May I suggest the mission name "Captive Audience"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Barth Gimble on September 23, 2018, 08:11:20 am
I came up with these ideas after thinking for a moment about tilesets and map types I've already seen in the game, and different kinds of scenarios that could plausibly be set in these existing maps. There's already a clinic/hospital map, and that movie theater map could easily pass as a concert hall or place for stage performances. A movie set could just be any outdoor terrain map or urban neighborhood where filming is taking place.

These kinds of scenarios broadly fall under three themes:

1) One or more of the game's existing alien-allied factions are searching for ways to facilitate the alien invasion. They hope that if they come up with a way to make the population more docile, or perhaps even inspire significant portions of the population to commit suicide or literally become catatonic, the aliens can more easily subjugate humanity without firing a shot and their faction will be rewarded by the aliens. In other words, it's the same motivation as "The Syndicate" from the "X-Files" series. This faction is experimenting with deployment of mind or consciousness altering technology through mass media, which is the most efficient way to easily influence millions or billions of people. Use of audio or visual media for nefarious mind-control is a pretty well-explored theme in sci-fi and horror fiction, so there are all kinds of scenarios that could take place under this aegis.

2) The game already has several nihilistic, apocalpytic cults either eagerly anticipating or actively working toward the end of the human race. Again, deployment of mind and consciousness altering weaponry through mass media is an efficient way get the most bang for one's buck. These groups have goals such as demoralizing people, encouraging people to see life, hope, and progress as futile, promoting ideas that humanity is some sort of blight or disease that should be eliminated, and encouraging people to either commit suicide or dupe them into becoming docile sacrifices for culling by the cults. Both a movie theater scenario and a music concert scenario could consist of faction members conducting a test of such technology on the audience, to find out whether the techniques are ready for mass deployment via television and internet.

3) Clearly, several of the scenarios are well-suited to "ghost-busting" missions-- for example, performance of  stage plays which are actually public rituals for summoning ghosts, wherein the audience is intended to serve as a readily available offering for the malicious spirits. Cult members (those staging the performance) believe this offering will make the entities more hospitable to persuasion or control.

For the most part, these kinds of adventures either fall into a simple "save the hostages and kill the enemy" category, or can be thought of as requiring low-profile infiltration either because evidence needs to be gathered to prove the foes are doing something wrong, or can be categorized as instances where infiltration is recommended because a more heavy-handed response (squads of armored trooops showing up in helicopters and tanks) is likely to cause too much collateral damage as well as bring unwanted media attention to XCOM. In the latter two cases, there are already many similar kinds of missions-- get the bad guys, leave the civilians unharmed-- so it's a script that's easily adapted.

The "underground movie" may be a bit much, but a related idea could be even more entertaining. Let's say there's a major movie studio making a big budget horror film. They've somehow gotten their hands on real zombies (or some other kind of monster), and a nitwitted but otherwise good-natured director wants to use these creatures as characters in the film. However, unintended chaos quickly ensues as the creatures begin rampaging through the movie set. The immediate objective is to save the imperilled cast and crew as well as contain the monster menace. A related objective is to quickly hush up the matter, as authorities don't want word to get out that monsters are real much less have real monsters appearing on the big screen.  Again, a related investigation could tie into an existing game faction who provided the monsters to the movie studio.

For a radio station infiltration, the cover could just be the regular "suit and tie" outfit because agents are posing as either advertising or equipment salesmen in order to gain access to the facility. A hospital infiltration is easy is well, as there are already "doctor/labcoat" outfits. Regular suit and tie outfits would also be fine for blending in with the public on most of the other kinds of infiltrations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2018, 04:53:01 pm
Yes, I agree with the fluff/story/lore you presented, it is sensible and it fits.
But I would like to know more about the gameplay ideas for these missions: what is your goal and how are you supposed to achieve it. For example, "Kill all enemies" is such a goal and it can be achieved by attacking the enemies until they die - simple enough. But here we have several elements and goals which come into play: there are alien agents (you must stop them), frienzied civilians (you must stop them without harming them? Or can you just ignore them?), probably something more...
What Tkzv mentioned is a possible interpretation, even if a simple one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Barth Gimble on September 23, 2018, 09:34:38 pm
We may be talking at different angles, as I don't know what kind of victory conditions the game mechanics allow. It was many years ago (probably ten) since I played XCOM or TFTD and I'm sketchy on the details, so it's apt to say all I know about how the game works is based on deductions from recently playing XCOM Files. In general, these would fit the gameplay template of existing missions types I've seen such as "Deep Ones Rituals," "Cult Riot," and "Monsters vs Military." I didn't have any sort of innovation in mind, just more variety. However while playing yesterday I got both a ski resort mission and one of the new industrial missions, and I noticed no civilians were present on either map, so maybe there's some challenge implementing these kinds of things from a technical standpoint?

Maybe tying some of these things together into a little story arc would be a better model for implementation. Any of the existing corporate factions or gangs could be the nemesis here, so let's just call them "X Inc." Most of these missions are even repeatable.

1) Strange Frequencies
Government officials have asked us to investigate a sudden suicide epidemic at a vital military base. They believe the phenomenon may be related to paranormal activity, with the hostile intent of disrupting military readiness. Our preliminary investigation revealed that all of the soldiers who killed themselves listened to the same local radio station. Your mission is to infiltrate the station while posing as advertising salespeople, and look for evidence of anything unusual.

Setting: Radio Station (a map with an office building)
Objective:  Kill all enemies
Allowed equipment: Suit, concealable weapons.

Gameplay: We are surprised to see an armed security detail from X Inc stationed here. Eliminate them.

Debriefing/Further Research: Either by finding a secret files to research or just setting a variable (whatever is allowed and is easier), our subsequent investigation of recovered evidence reveals the radio station broadcasts contained hidden (psionic?) frequencies designed to stimulate feelings of depression and encourage suicidal tendencies. The radio station was owned by Acme Media Conglomerate, and we also uncovered evidence to suggest this company has been infiltrated by X Inc. X Inc is using Acme Media both to spread propoganda favorable to their cause, as well as for more malevolent purposes of weaponizing mass media technology.

2) Death Clinic
Our investigation of Acme Media revealed that a chain of exclusive clinics serving wealthy clients around the world is a major advertiser on its networks. We suspect these clinics are being used for criminal purposes of kidnapping and extortion, as well as to conduct illegal research into alien medical technologies, alien-human hybrids, and weaponizing mutagenic pathogens. Your mission is to infiltrate the clinic, posing as doctors, and look for evidence of anything unusual.

Setting: Hospital map
Objective: Kill all enemies, penalty for civilian deaths.
Allowed equipment: Doctor outfits, concealable weapons.

Gameplay: We fight both some security elements from X Inc as well as some monster of choice. The enemy is hostile to both XCOM and civilians, and we get a point penalty for civilian deaths. Maybe some of those pink blob thingies are hunting the civilians, turning them into more blobs.

Debriefing/Further Research: This investigation confirms the ties between Acme Media and X Inc. The clinics are being used for multiple purposes. First, wealthy clients pay a premium to receive advanced treatments based on alien technology. Second, for purposes of collecting ransom some clients are kidnapped or actually infected with novel diseases which can only be cured with exclusive, expensive therapies. Third, clients who can't or won't pay the ransom are used as fodder in biological research or even turned into monsters of choice, and are never seen again.

3) Monster Movie Madness
We received a tip that a big budget horror movie being produced by Acme Media will feature (real monsters of choice) as props and/or cast members. Posing as investors in the movie, infiltrate the set and investigate these rumors.

Setting: Almost any kind of outdoor terrain or urban setting map
Objective: Kill all enemies, penalty for civilian deaths
Allowed equipment: Suit, concealable weapons

Gameplay: We arrive to find the set in chaos. The monsters have run amok, and are terrorizing the film crew. Maybe there's a security element from X Inc as well.

Debriefing/Further Research: The incorporation of monsters into the film project confirms beyond any doubt the subversion of Acme Media by X Inc.

4) Youth Gone Wild
We received a tip that X Inc is planning a public test of (psionic, sonic) weaponry at a rock n roll concert by a band under contract with Acme Media. Attend the concert, and investigate any signs of suspicious activity.

Setting: Movie theater urban map
Objective: Kill/subdue all enemies
Allowed Equipment: Suit, concealable weapons.

Gameplay: We arrive to find the scene in chaos. The weaponry has already been deployed, and the crowd has been turned into hysterical, homocidal maniacs. Enemies are therefore a mix of both lightly armed civilians as well as some security forces from X Inc. The challenge of the mission is to overcome the mob of enemies.

Debriefing/Further Research: Realizing their massive liability that is likely to put them out of business from lawsuits, and with executives facing jail time for illegal activities, after a little persuasion from us Acme Media now understands that it is not in their best interest to continue working with X Inc. Acme Media has provided us with information about all the work they'd been doing for X Inc. X Inc has now sworn to destroy Acme Media for this betrayal.

5) Beach Bunny Blues
A major recording starlet under contract to Acme Inc is shooting a music video for her latest hit song at a beach resort. We've received reports that X Inc may try to disrupt this event and possibly assasinate the beloved starlet and her band, in order to cause financial hardship to Acme Media. Posing as guests at the resort, investigate for any signs of X Inc presence.

Setting: Beach map
Objective: Kill all enemies, penalty for civilian deaths
Allowed equipment: Swimwear, surf board

Gameplay: Resembles a "Deep Ones Ritual." Enemies are hostile to both civilians and XCOM. Enemies are security forces from X Inc.

Debriefing/Further Research: Big point bonus if no civilians are killed. Acme Media now agrees to begin producing propoganda favorable to our cause.

I could go on, but I think this is a clearer picture of what I had in mind. Are these the kinds of details you are looking for?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2018, 11:39:46 pm
Most of this isn't really possible, but I admit it's Inspiring! Thanks. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Barth Gimble on September 24, 2018, 12:55:41 am
Just a few ideas I thought I'd put out there. As I said, the mod already offers lots of great content and many hours of fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 24, 2018, 10:41:12 pm
I've eliminated the Red Dawn HQ and researched the memory card? Does that mean i've terminated a cult? Don't I get promo 3?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Niewiem on September 25, 2018, 12:28:49 am
Yes this means you eliminated cult. As far as I remeber you need to eliminate 4 basic cults for promotion 3 (exalt, dagon, red dawn, black lotus)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: ohartenstein23 on September 25, 2018, 12:34:10 am
You only need to terminate one of the starting four for Promotion III, but there are more requirements than just elimination of a cult.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 25, 2018, 12:58:49 am
You only need to terminate one of the starting four for Promotion III, but there are more requirements than just elimination of a cult.
Yeah I just checked, the only feasable way to get it in my eyes  is to interrogate a deep one, or does the cyberweb portal come with capturing the scientist?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Martin on September 25, 2018, 09:34:49 am
What unlocks alien electronics?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Niewiem on September 25, 2018, 10:36:09 am
You need to have
Item
Alien Electronics
Building
Std Lab
And you can either get it from Decrypted Alien Data Slate or some captured Engineer/Leader/Commander
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Martin on September 25, 2018, 11:15:16 am
I have both. Bug?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Niewiem on September 25, 2018, 01:05:19 pm
And you can either get it from Decrypted Alien Data Slate or some captured Engineer/Leader/Commander

You cannot research it. You only can get info about it from one of the above. At least this is how I understand that and way I got it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Mathel on September 25, 2018, 03:00:59 pm
But if I remember correctly, you need to know it to decrypt slates. So the only real ways are living leader/engineer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: mrKos on September 25, 2018, 04:01:27 pm
Hey. For a long time I did not write. I looked at these ideas about new missions. They have the one problem. Victory will be only after neutralization of all opponents. Only not in the case of tasks with two levels.
That's what I thought about the hidden tasks. Make them two-level.
1) The first level. Killing opponents imposes fines. The task is to quickly get to the exit without killing anyone.
2) The second level. Standard fight.
The declaration of this structure of the task can be different. For example, a movie house. The source of the video is somewhere in the basement, and the player needs to get to it first. At the first level there are crazy spectators. In the basement is a cultist who arranged this attack.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: deltatree4 on September 27, 2018, 11:37:30 am
Hi I want to tell you again that this mod is fantastic.

I've got an idea that i want to share with you: support radios.

You can use it to call different types of things:

1)weapon support( mortar, napalm strike , air strike ecc)

2)Support team( Spawn allied squad like the council gather)

3)Item drop (like medikit)

Basically you have this radio which you can load with a different comunication "card" (each use a different type of support) and use it like some kind of blaster launcher witch spawn from above and  have only one pin point signal.

After the end of the mission you will have in your inventory some kind of recipe (expensive)  witch you have to sell because it occupy a lot of space.

I don't know if it is possible but I want it share my idea with you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 27, 2018, 12:00:37 pm
At the moment it's not possible... But there are certain efforts being undertaken to allow such things.
Thanks, and enjoy :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: deltatree4 on September 28, 2018, 02:36:31 pm
Hi, I've got some new ideas.

Mission type:
< Ambassy (Assault or cover operation)>: Hybrids got the order to partecipate  at social event (party) inside an ambassy to try to convince ( corrupt, intimidate ecc.) High rank political figure.

The map could be the same of the Asylium (the one with ghost) but with civilian.

<Convoy extraction (Assault or covert)>: In this mission you have to extract a Vip from a building due the fact alien or cults had the brilliant idea to kill him.
The object: eliminate All the treat or stun and drag the VIP to the extraction

It require a Special Vehicle :  A convoy made by civilian cars (covert) or Humvees( Assault)
basically 3 vehicles were our agent spawn.

Last idea is the concept of another veichle: A mobile base like the "PALADIN" of Splinter Cell Blacklist. it should carry only six operators. Basically it should be the next tier of AWACS but this time is capable to intervene in operation thanks to an elicopter witch carry inside( basically in  the  battle you spawn with an elicopter).
I don't know if countermeasure will be balanced (like a weapon to be able to defend itself).

Sorry I'am a BIG dreamer ::)

keep up with the good work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on September 28, 2018, 07:39:48 pm
Quote
I've got an idea that i want to share with you: support radios.
At the moment it's not possible... But there are certain efforts being undertaken to allow such things.
Thanks, and enjoy :)
For airstrikes it's effectively a weapon with an unlimited range that doesn't require line of sight. Like psionics. Let it drop shells that explode at the end of the turn. Make precision reasonably low. Can that be done with existing engine?

Tnere's also a question of fire rate. I think, 1 shot per turn per radio would be reasonable. Were there any weapons which recharged every turn, or am I thinking about Apocalypse again?

What unlocks alien electronics?
It can only be obtained from interrogating alien engineers/leaders/commanders. Researching it requires the knoweledge of magic subject "(other)", a.k.a. STR_TROLLIUM, which in turn can only be researched if you posess a piece of STR_TROLLIUM, which never appears in the game. Same applies for a number of other subjects, like dossiers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Stoddard on September 29, 2018, 12:47:05 am
For airstrikes it's effectively a weapon with an unlimited range that doesn't require line of sight. Like psionics. Let it drop shells that explode at the end of the turn. Make precision reasonably low. Can that be done with existing engine?

For added realism it should be randomly delayed for up to many turns and have a not insignificant chance to land on the radio operator.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on September 29, 2018, 04:26:30 pm
For added realism it should be randomly delayed for up to many turns
Is this currently possible? Now that I think about it, hand grenades can do it.
and have a not insignificant chance to land on the radio operator.
That's what I called a reasonably low precision :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Toothless Shark on September 30, 2018, 02:47:19 pm
Just wanted to say that this mod is FANTASTIC. Loving every minute of it. It even adds Gun Kata. :D

The only bad thing about it is that it kills your social life. I've been playing it whole week and just can't ... stop ... playing. If i didn't have to go to work i'd probably never leave house. :D

Thanks for all the effort in making this wonderful mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 02, 2018, 08:51:05 pm
Just wanted to say that this mod is FANTASTIC. Loving every minute of it. It even adds Gun Kata. :D

The only bad thing about it is that it kills your social life. I've been playing it whole week and just can't ... stop ... playing. If i didn't have to go to work i'd probably never leave house. :D

Thanks for all the effort in making this wonderful mod.

Thank you very much, you are most welcome. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: deltatree4 on October 02, 2018, 09:32:08 pm
Hi, I've got a vehicle idea:
A mobile base like the "PALADIN" of Splinter Cell Blacklist. it should carry only six operators. Basically it should be the next tier of AWACS but this time is capable to intervene in operation thanks to an elicopter witch carry inside( basically in  the  battle you spawn with an elicopter).
I don't know if countermeasure will be balanced (like a weapon to be able to defend itself).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2018, 09:40:17 am
Sorry, I don't understand... It's a craft, right? But with another craft inside? How would this work?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on October 03, 2018, 10:32:58 am
Sorry, I don't understand... It's a craft, right? But with another craft inside? How would this work?
A huge airship that stays in the air and uses a small landing craft for ground missions? A craft that looks huge in hangar, but replaced with a small helicopter outside base defense missions?

And what's the joke about "elicopter" and "helicopter"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2018, 10:58:37 am
Dude, does this game look like it supports moving bases? ::)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: deltatree4 on October 03, 2018, 02:58:25 pm
I'm sorry, I'll be more precise.

I know that the mobile bases are not possible, what I suggested was an aircraft like the "AWACS" (with a wider radar range and more fuel), which is able to intervene in missions with a small equipe of soldiers. Due the fact that land  a beast like that plane would be ridicolous on a farm I suggested instead to use the sprite of an HELICOPTER (sorry my mother tongue is  not english and I wrote wrong due a mistake with my language) just to mantain a right approach with reality( they land and immediately take the HElicopter to reach the mission).

Finally I think it would be good to give at least one weapon slot to the Plane, just for  self-defence.

Best regard

keep up with the good work!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2018, 03:39:28 pm
Ah okay :)
There are already AWACS-like craft which do that, so I think we have it covered.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on October 03, 2018, 03:55:56 pm
HELICOPTER (sorry my mother tongue is  not english and I wrote wrong due a mistake with my language)
Dictionary says both spellings are correct in English, but "elicopter" is rare and has something to do with Deus Ex. Since the previous page other thread was the discussion of a Jagged Alliance reference I missed, I expected something similar.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: nicedayright on October 03, 2018, 10:18:41 pm
What are the milestones you'd recommend having complete before Ay-day? It's coming on December 1998 and I haven't terminated any of my starting cults yet. Am I about to get slaughtered by terror missions right from the start or does the invasion start out slow as in vanilla?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2018, 10:36:35 pm
What are the milestones you'd recommend having complete before Ay-day? It's coming on December 1998 and I haven't terminated any of my starting cults yet. Am I about to get slaughtered by terror missions right from the start or does the invasion start out slow as in vanilla?

Nah, the invasion is less intense than in vanilla. You should be fine at any stage, if you're not suicidal.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: nicedayright on October 04, 2018, 12:15:39 am
if you're not suicidal.
Let's not make any more assumptions than we have to. Since I've already gone to the trouble of making this account, I just want to let you know this mod is a phenomenal piece of work. You and your collaborators deserve a pat on the back for all the effort you've put in.

In other news, is the fact that enemies seem to avoid pathing through fire a bug or a feature? Because it's made the agricultural flamer such a great tool on constricted maps with melee enemies. Most underrated weapon in the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2018, 02:16:02 am
Many thanks!

And yes, the AI was written to treat burning tiles as costing 18 TUs (I think). (They don't actually cost more, it only influences AI planning.) So the agri flamer is indeed quite useful in crowd control. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: legionof1 on October 04, 2018, 04:59:45 am
pathing computes fire as 32 TU actually.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Finnik on October 04, 2018, 11:52:26 am
Ah okay :)
There are already AWACS-like craft which do that, so I think we have it covered.

think about orbital base for late game. i think it can be done using scripts, that changes position all the time with cicle. most of it will requre lots of script coding tho, as you have to put another background to it and may be another modules. but i fall in love with space maps like freighter)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2018, 12:41:59 pm
think about orbital base for late game. i think it can be done using scripts, that changes position all the time with cicle. most of it will requre lots of script coding tho, as you have to put another background to it and may be another modules. but i fall in love with space maps like freighter)

UFO: Aftershock is a glorious game, so I can't dislike this idea. :) However, I have no idea how hard it would be to implement. Probably very.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Finnik on October 04, 2018, 03:33:58 pm
I saw that tread about lua scripts. At given time it could be the key for that. I think Whispers himself can do such thing and its not that hard for him. But I dont used lua yet, and im waiting for his wiki to expand more... seems right now his API has enough tools for it
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Stoddard on October 04, 2018, 05:23:12 pm
Re laputas:

the first question that comes to mind is how to change/define terrain for the base defense mission. but idk, maybe it's possible right now.

the second question is how does the base move? I mean, do you order it to move (and that means new UI) or it just follows a predefined orbit (then how and when the orbit gets defined?)

the actual movement of the base isn't anywhere near hard to do. Deciding where it should move that is.

from the coding POV let's start with orbital missions that are actually orbital, that is following an orbit with an appropriate orbital speed (15000 knots give or take) and not sitting at poles like it currently is in piratez for example.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2018, 05:28:09 pm
Not exactly on topic of laputas, but still about movement: would it be possible to restrict craft movement to certain textures? (Mudranger only on land, USOs only on water, etc.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Stoddard on October 04, 2018, 06:33:30 pm
Not exactly on topic of laputas, but still about movement: would it be possible to restrict craft movement to certain textures? (Mudranger only on land, USOs only on water, etc.)

Hm. Theoretically... but one would have to define regions and restrict craft to regions, not textures.  Best way would be to allow the regions to be defined by referencing the quads/triangles the textures are bound to. But not directly to textures themselves, that would be only creating another unnecessary restriction in place of another.

So yes, possible, medium difficulty.

EDIT: As long as someone designs the rules on what the craft is supposed to do when its target is somewhere not in the same region
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2018, 07:12:20 pm
Hmm, but regions are made of pretty rough shapes, and I can't imagine matching them to coastlines.
It has to be the texture... Otherwise I think it makes no sense, I guess. Too hackish.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Stoddard on October 04, 2018, 07:44:32 pm
Hmm, but regions are made of pretty rough shapes, and I can't imagine matching them to coastlines.
It has to be the texture... Otherwise I think it makes no sense, I guess. Too hackish.

No, I mean if you want to restrict craft to some areas, then that's the purpose the regions are there for, to answer the question  "is the point with those coordinates inside me or not".

Now, today they are rectangles of sorts, in spherical coordinates. They can't match the coastlines, or any other feature on the globe.

It is not hard to define some new sort of region, that instead is a set of triangles the globe is made of (and which have textures assigned to them). This way features can match perfectly. But this has nothing to do with textures themselves.

Big question is what you want the craft to do with those regions - like I said, with the targeting. It is not hard to restrict craft to being unable to exit a region with some particular attribute. But this way it will literally just bump into the border and sit there. An annoying popup can be thrown up.




Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Finnik on October 04, 2018, 09:00:04 pm
the first question that comes to mind is how to change/define terrain for the base defense mission. but idk, maybe it's possible right now.
it should be static (can stop thinking about freigter, it gives so much inspiration)

the second question is how does the base move? I mean, do you order it to move (and that means new UI) or it just follows a predefined orbit (then how and when the orbit gets defined?)
just predefined orbit (by mod creator) should be fine.

the actual movement of the base isn't anywhere near hard to do. Deciding where it should move that is.

thats how clocks work, i think, and funds show option also... it updates every hour, lets say, kinda loop that adds to number to base coordination. i dont think its impossible to do, but will requer help of coders for sure. also it should me defined as another object ofc. and any way, some gui changes, to add some button for its ctreation. i also dont think it should have module structure with buildings

from the coding POV let's start with orbital missions that are actually orbital, that is following an orbit with an appropriate orbital speed (15000 knots give or take) and not sitting at poles like it currently is in piratez for example.
but the principles of orbital mechanics just say that in-orbit skirmishes will occur in a very suitable way for xcom. In order to get closer in orbit for, for example, docking, you need to
align the speeds of two objects. Therefore, space boarding in reality will look very similar to what we see in the Pirates. Even the blackness of the map seems to me very realistic due to the way the camera shoots at such great contrasts of illumination
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 04, 2018, 10:35:12 pm
No, I mean if you want to restrict craft to some areas, then that's the purpose the regions are there for, to answer the question  "is the point with those coordinates inside me or not".

Now, today they are rectangles of sorts, in spherical coordinates. They can't match the coastlines, or any other feature on the globe.

It is not hard to define some new sort of region, that instead is a set of triangles the globe is made of (and which have textures assigned to them). This way features can match perfectly. But this has nothing to do with textures themselves.

Big question is what you want the craft to do with those regions - like I said, with the targeting. It is not hard to restrict craft to being unable to exit a region with some particular attribute. But this way it will literally just bump into the border and sit there. An annoying popup can be thrown up.

Yes, I get the idea (I think), I was just pointing out that it looks pretty much useless to me:
1. Land masses aren't matched up with regions. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to go from Berlin to Novosibirsk by car, but here you couldn't, because they're in different regions. Unless you mean adding new special regions on top of the current ones - I'm not sure how this would work.
2. You would still be able to travel over water, as long as the destination is the same region. I think this is not a good representation of movement restriction, as it would be very arbitrary.
I hope I understood your idea well enough and this isn't some babble. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Stoddard on October 04, 2018, 11:57:31 pm
I hope I understood your idea well enough and this isn't some babble. :)

My idea for this is

1. extending the existing region definition for them to be of arbitrary shape, just like the rest of the globe
2. making possible for craft to be restricted from entering some subset of region-types or whatever, including launch

so you just define a region in the shape of a highway from Berlin to Novosibirsk, and with enough waypoints set a car can get there and back, no matter what other regions or textures say

EDIT: just don't ask for pathfinding right now :)






it should be static (can stop thinking about freigter, it gives so much inspiration)
I meant, how it would be expressed in the ruleset.

just predefined orbit (by mod creator) should be fine.
Yeah, good enough for a start.

thats how clocks work, i think, and funds show option also... it updates every hour, lets say, kinda loop that adds to number to base coordination. i dont think its impossible to do, but will requer help of coders for sure.
No, what I meant is who defines orbit/how it changes, etc, but if could be fixed for now, yes.

also it should me defined as another object ofc. and any way, some gui changes, to add some button for its ctreation. i also dont think it should have module structure with buildings

That's where the design work is. I can launch an underground base into orbit, but how should it look / what it should be capable of?

but the principles of orbital mechanics just say that in-orbit skirmishes will occur in a very suitable way for xcom. In order to get closer in orbit for, for example, docking, you need to
align the speeds of two objects. Therefore, space boarding in reality will look very similar to what we see in the Pirates. Even the blackness of the map seems to me very realistic due to the way the camera shoots at such great contrasts of illumination

I agree. All what it misses in my opinion is the millions-of-stars background.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: nicedayright on October 05, 2018, 05:39:55 pm
The asylum mission soundtrack was a masterpiece, though I feel the ghosts could stand to be a little more of a threat for how many points the mission was worth. Maybe give them MC? That said, the mental image of handing a rookie an electric club and sending him to flail at a tornado of luminescent skulls is mildly amusing.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 05, 2018, 05:55:26 pm
The asylum mission soundtrack was a masterpiece, though I feel the ghosts could stand to be a little more of a threat for how many points the mission was worth. Maybe give them MC? That said, the mental image of handing a rookie an electric club and sending him to flail at a tornado of luminescent skulls is mildly amusing.

Well, this is an introductory mission to the (hypothetical) ghost arc... I think it's fine. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: SG_Barton on October 06, 2018, 01:15:20 pm
Hello, my dear friends, I would like to know from you, how long will the X-Files version for OXCE 5.1 be ready?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2018, 07:07:42 pm
Hello, my dear friends, I would like to know from you, how long will the X-Files version for OXCE 5.1 be ready?

I have a policy of having at least 10 lines of changes in the log, and now I'm at 7. So... it's 70% done, I guess. :)

And there are also some things to be ironed out for the upgrade to 5.1.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: SG_Barton on October 06, 2018, 10:48:38 pm
I have a policy of having at least 10 lines of changes in the log, and now I'm at 7. So... it's 70% done, I guess. :)

And there are also some things to be ironed out for the upgrade to 5.1.

With great pleasure I will expect an update from you.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Wyldesnelsson on October 08, 2018, 11:30:25 pm
So I have been looking into the rule sets of the mod and reading through whatever files where human readable, and I have come across a barrier so to speak, I have noticed that the items have a tag in the rule set called category, but looking through every file I could, I could not find any description of the properties of these categories, are they stored somewhere more secretive or are they hardcoded, because I could not find them anywhere
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: MFive on October 08, 2018, 11:31:54 pm
Solaris, I wanted to mention that with your last update 0.9.5, the changelog was not updated with the one you posted in this forum (according to the changelog, the most recent version os 0.9.4).

I don't know how popular it was(is), but I have always liked it.

Thanks for all of your hard work!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 09, 2018, 12:14:58 am
Since my posts seem to be missed ill repost them both:

First when you capture your first cyberweb scientist will get access to promo 3 or will at least get a portal? Any good tips as well to help would be nice too.

Secondly the UI for the mission is weirdly green is that a bug?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Niewiem on October 09, 2018, 10:32:23 am
Interrogating deep one should be easier than getting cyberweb portal I think it is way up in cyberweb arc.
What mission are you refering to?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Toothless Shark on October 09, 2018, 04:19:40 pm
Since my posts seem to be missed ill repost them both:

First when you capture your first cyberweb scientist will get access to promo 3 or will at least get a portal? Any good tips as well to help would be nice too.

Secondly the UI for the mission is weirdly green is that a bug?

To get promo 3 you have to take out any cult HQ. Then you get to make a report for UN and then you get a promo 3 research.

I ran into green UI only in the sewers missions (slimes / cyberweb). I think it indicates that you should have bio protective gear. Didn't really try entering the area with standard armor so i don't really know if anything bad happens. I was using only Bio armor (with night vision) when i was going on those missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 09, 2018, 07:41:51 pm
To get promo 3 you have to take out any cult HQ. Then you get to make a report for UN and then you get a promo 3 research.

I ran into green UI only in the sewers missions (slimes / cyberweb). I think it indicates that you should have bio protective gear. Didn't really try entering the area with standard armor so i don't really know if anything bad happens. I was using only Bio armor (with night vision) when i was going on those missions.
I've already destroyed the Red Dawn HQ and I researched the memory card but no report and I entered the sewers with normal armour and the green UI was there too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 09, 2018, 09:33:07 pm
So I have been looking into the rule sets of the mod and reading through whatever files where human readable, and I have come across a barrier so to speak, I have noticed that the items have a tag in the rule set called category, but looking through every file I could, I could not find any description of the properties of these categories, are they stored somewhere more secretive or are they hardcoded, because I could not find them anywhere

Not sure what you mean, but the item categories are listed in itemCategories_XCOMFILES.rul. They don'tr have any special properties, but startingConditions_XCOMFILES.rul use them to check which items can be taken on a mission with limited equipment.

Solaris, I wanted to mention that with your last update 0.9.5, the changelog was not updated with the one you posted in this forum (according to the changelog, the most recent version os 0.9.4).

Indeed, I completely forgot... Thanks you, fixed!

First when you capture your first cyberweb scientist will get access to promo 3 or will at least get a portal? Any good tips as well to help would be nice too.

No, Cyberweb in fact does not give you promo 3. It is sort of parallel.
Discovering a portal requires getting the right research from a Cyberweb scientist, so you may have to interrogate a few of them.

Secondly the UI for the mission is weirdly green is that a bug?

No, it's a feature.

I've already destroyed the Red Dawn HQ and I researched the memory card but no report and I entered the sewers with normal armour and the green UI was there too.

It's only because of sewers lighting and ambience, does not necessarily mean any special conditions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 10, 2018, 08:58:18 pm

No, Cyberweb in fact does not give you promo 3. It is sort of parallel.
Ok then What else can I do to get promo 3? I've eliminated a cult I believe if reasearching the Red Dawn Memory card does it
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on October 10, 2018, 11:07:18 pm
Ok then What else can I do to get promo 3? I've eliminated a cult I believe if reasearching the Red Dawn Memory card does it
Press "q" in Geoscape to open the tech tree viewer. There's a switch in options to enable-disable spoilers, but I think default allows spoilers.

If I remember correctly, Promotion 3 requires: Promotion 2, finding a way to terminate any cult (memory card counts) and any of: Alien Origins, Deep One Communities, Into the Dark or Cyberweb Portal System.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 11, 2018, 12:26:39 am
Press "q" in Geoscape to open the tech tree viewer. There's a switch in options to enable-disable spoilers, but I think default allows spoilers.

If I remember correctly, Promotion 3 requires: Promotion 2, finding a way to terminate any cult (memory card counts) and any of: Alien Origins, Deep One Communities, Into the Dark or Cyberweb Portal System.
I know about the tech tree viewer but how do I find Alien origins, Deep one communities, Into the Dark and the Cyberweb portal System?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: legionof1 on October 11, 2018, 04:31:32 am
The tech tree viewer system has a search feature. Press Q to open the search bar. Almost everything is searchable, there are a few quirks related to manufacturing an item that then needs research.

Not sure of the top of my head about the rest but deep one communities is had from a live deep one(requires alien containment).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.5: Burn The Village Down
Post by: tkzv on October 11, 2018, 02:17:04 pm
The tech tree viewer system has a search feature. Press Q to open the search bar. Almost everything is searchable, there are a few quirks related to manufacturing an item that then needs research.

Not sure of the top of my head about the rest but deep one communities is had from a live deep one(requires alien containment).
Correct. Alien origins is unlocked by a live alien (also requires containment), but may be randomly given by other prisoners. I recall getting it from hybrids, but now it's only MiB scientist. Into the dark is unlocked by studying odd objects randomly appearing in cave missions (20% or 25% chance, I think). Portal system requires capturing a portal. So, Deep Ones are the most likely to give it early.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2018, 10:40:08 pm
Version 0.9.6 has been released.
- Updated to OXCE 5.1.
- Rolled AI types into one, thus allowing training from the start.
- New weapon: Stoner LMG.
- New armors: Power Armor, Aqua-Plastic Suit, Coelacanth.
- New missions: Lo Wo's Refuge (by Finnik), Black Lotus Shrine, Marine Base Defense, T'Leth Messengers, T'Leth Recon, T'Leth Survey, T'Leth Embassy.
- New units: Master Lo Wo (by Finnik), Calcinite, Hallucinoid, Marine Officer.
- New Cult Safehouse (by Finnik).
- New Obliterator sprite.
- New briefing music for Cyberweb missions.
- New Jungle landing block.
- Improved maps: Shogg Village, Reptoid Settlement, M.A.G.M.A. Reactor.
- Overhauled smoke resistances to a more punishing model - typical human resistance: 400%, aliens are typically at 100% (special thanks to Otto Hartenstein).
- Increased laser weapons accuracy across the board.
- More things to share with M.A.G.M.A. (and be punished for it).
- Shallow underwater missions are brighter.
- Cave missions are brighter too.
- New AI names.
- Smart Shotgun is now smaller and concealable (by Starving Poet).
- Grenade launchers are more accurate in aimed mode.
- Plasma Caster is now easier to handle.
- Blaster Multi-Launcher and Blaster Multi-Bombs are now manufacturable.
- Gunship now requires Advanced Lab.
- Bio-Exo Suit is faster to make.
- More Cyberweb Batteries to loot from Cyberweb locations.
- Terramite and Aqua Plastics are now recovered at proper amounts.
- New explosion animation for the Boomeroid.
- Added proper pictures to the Megascorpion Autopsy and Giant Rat Autopsy articles (by Arvidus).
- Private Transport is faster.
- Boosted Gauss Defences.
- Streamlined the dependencies for Improved and Advanced Labs.
- Fixed the AI on certain units which were too passive.
- Black Lotus Footman has better camo and is a spotter.
- Aquatoids have proper shields now (though weak).
- Cyberdisc Dissassembly now grants 4 Grav Modules, but building X-Com Cyberdiscs requires additional 2 Grav Modules.
- Diving Suit is a bit sturdier.
- Improved Laboratory and Advanced Laboratory now require special materials for construction.
- Unified fuel explosions between different tilesets.
- Fixed shield on Hybrids wearing Work Suits.
- Fixed dog barking on the Tritanium Gear.
- Fixed streetlights in Dawn City.
- Dimension X base no longer gives Alien Surgery.
- Fixed issues with the Ironfist map and some Undersea City buildings.
- Fixed the Civilian Worker sprite.
- Fixed Cybermite explosion.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Fiskun1 on October 12, 2018, 02:49:41 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2018, 06:19:04 pm
Uploading a fixed version of 0.9.6:
- Tritanium Cannon is now buyable, like other craft weapons.
- Removed the option to produce Tactical Neural Implants, as they serve no specific purpose yet.
- Fixed some inconsistencies with Choke resistances.
- Fixed Blaster Multi-Launcher costs.
- Fixed a crash on the Cyberweb Robosphere.

Please download 0.9.6b.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 13, 2018, 12:23:02 pm
Just wanna know if this is intentional but did you use the hallucinoid autopsy pic for the tentaculat autopsy on purpose?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 13, 2018, 11:06:54 pm
Just wanna know if this is intentional but did you use the hallucinoid autopsy pic for the tentaculat autopsy on purpose?

Thanks, I can't really discern between these two organisms when they're cut up like that. :)

Warning: Version 0.9.6c has been released.
- Added a Ufopaedia article on pilots (text by BT Axis).
- Fixed a crash on the Embassy of T'Leth mission.
- Fixed some Forest Mountain AI routes.
- Fixed one Ufopaedia article picture (Tentaculat autopsy).

Or you can just replace the attached file, if you don't want to update the whole thing; it will fix the crash, and the other changes are rather inconsequential.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Barth Gimble on October 22, 2018, 10:48:53 am
I didn't get much time to play this weekend, but at least I made the upgrade to the latest version. A few general thoughts:

a) I'd like to revise a statement I made in a different discussion on the subject of money. I'm at March, 2000 in my game. For most of the game years that have passed, I was struggling with money. But in the last few months of game time, just out of nowhere I'm now swimming in cash-- my account balance is suddenly $190 million dollars. I don't manufacture things for profit-- my engineers either manufacture things I need to actually use, or sit idle (I've actually dismantled some workshops and let some engineers go lately because of excess capacity). Also, I don't really seem to make much from selling plunder, because I hold on to a lot of it (not knowing the game well, I don't want to get rid of things that may be needed for future manufacturing projects). So basically, all this money is coming just from regular Council funding. The only thing I'm doing differently is that I've got all my bases built now, and have stopped spending big $$ on construction. I don't really have a useful suggestion on balancing this, but it seems like I'm really going to have much more than I need in the bank from now on.

b) I just noticed the Scorpoid race uses prison cells rather than alien containment or animal pens. That seems unusual.

c) I'm all for choice and consequences, but prefer to make informed decisions. What are the consequences of

sharing Elerium battery tech with Magma?

Because my advisor kind of scolded me afterward, like I really made a major foul-up on this issue.

d) It was so long ago since I played regular XCOM, I see now I may be getting into trouble with having enough Elerium supplies to keep all my aircraft going. I should be doing a lot more capturing of landed UFOs, but the trouble is my fighter planes keep destroying most of the enemy craft rather than causing them to crash land. And if I let the UFOs just fly around without intercepting them, many of them just disappear rather than land (I do have outstanding global radar coverage, with 8 bases, so I'm not losing tracking of them). Any advice on this issue?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Niewiem on October 22, 2018, 12:04:34 pm
Build hyper-wave decoder and check what missions are they on. I will not make it easy with list of missions that always land but you can have it after few tries. Also if they are on low attitude most times they either have already landed just a second ago or will soon land :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: legionof1 on October 23, 2018, 04:02:11 am
Re point A, yeah that happens eventually if your playing decently well and not losing council members in large numbers the income raises just keep accumulating and you run out of stuff to build. The effect was in vanilla to but there the game was often over before it really got to silly. XCF runs about 5-6 times the length of vanilla so the effect is amplified.

Re point C, iirc you lose some score, but not really much else of note is involved.

Re point D, Alot of the later tech craft weapons, particularly missiles, will overkill smaller craft that might have otherwise yielded loot. Setup some of your interceptors with lower tech weapons and set them aside specifically to engage lighter ufos.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Barth Gimble on October 23, 2018, 02:19:36 pm
Thanks for the tips and info.

The alien invasion part of the game seems to be going slowly, as the ETs are still sending mostly smaller vessels. I kept the CF-105 around in case it's involved in anything special later, but it's got cobwebs because I never send it out, so I'll start using it more against small UFOs. I was also currently upgrading my airbases to all Tormentor planes, so I'll put that down to lower priority for now.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Hyperwave Decoder works differently here than in the original game. I'm thinking in vanilla XCom you could get rid of all the other radars after building it, but in XCom Files one shouldn't do that. Is this correct? Freeing up some space in the bases would be nice if I don't need each radar in each one (small, large, hyperwave), but I don't want to lose tracking capacity if they're all needed.

That reminds me of another question I had which may be general rather than XCom Files related. All my bases have the same radars installed, but on the base info screen one base has Long Range Detection of 4, two bases have ratings of 3, and the rest only have ratings of 2. Why the different ratings?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Niewiem on October 23, 2018, 02:32:31 pm
I do not know answer to your question but from what I know
- Xcom HQ has global detection but very low rate

Pile of blablabla that I was wrong about :D

Someone could correct me if I just wrote some stupidity :D (Thanks ohartenstein :D )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: ohartenstein23 on October 23, 2018, 02:45:06 pm
You are correct about the HQ, its best quality is making sure any contact you make never goes out-of-range until it exits the atmosphere. What you wrote about the normal radars is almost completely wrong though - small radar is mediocre at detection, but still much better than the HQ. The large radar is a straight upgrade in both range and detection chance, and the hyperwave decoder has 100% detection rate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: niculinux on October 23, 2018, 07:39:00 pm
Please, don't forget to update changelog thread :'( it stands still at 0.9.5
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2018, 07:52:27 pm
Please, don't forget to update changelog thread :'( it stands still at 0.9.5

Oh damn, you're right. Fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Barth Gimble on October 24, 2018, 05:38:36 am
the hyperwave decoder has 100% detection rate.

So other radars aren't needed after building the hyperwave decoder. Is the hyperwave coverage global? In other words, is it wasteful to have a hyperwave decoder at each base instead of just having one?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 24, 2018, 12:12:08 pm
It is not global, so each base needs one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: gix on November 03, 2018, 08:23:36 am
Hi, Solarius

My apologies if those questions were asked before. Just switched off from OXC to OXCE, so the questions may be dumb ones...
I have my own OXCE build(synced on latest commits) that I wanna use to play the mod (added basically a large change that allows free 3d movement for flying units).
Is there somewhere a distribution of this mod alone (i.e. without OXCE, included)?
And if so, is it more difficult to install than a regular OXC mod on top of OXC?
Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Meridian on November 03, 2018, 10:18:14 am
Within the distribution there is a folder: /OpenXcom_XFiles/user/mods/XComFiles

That's the mod itself... and it can be installed on top of your build same as any other OXC mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Alex_D on November 05, 2018, 10:43:53 am
This is a silly question: So the only way to turn off the flashlight is to put it away in the inventory? Flashlights left on the ground will be always powered on, illuminating the area like a flare but much more potent?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2018, 12:12:48 pm
This is a silly question: So the only way to turn off the flashlight is to put it away in the inventory? Flashlights left on the ground will be always powered on, illuminating the area like a flare but much more potent?

Yes, at the moment it's the only way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Nord on November 05, 2018, 02:37:30 pm
Anything instead of working on my own mod...
Here is a slightly changed (improved i hope) skymarshall map and some pics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2018, 03:04:20 pm
This Aquatoid indeed looks better, thanks!
The Muckstar of course also looks better, but it isn't very similar to the sprite... And especially the autopsy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Nord on November 05, 2018, 03:20:00 pm
Autopsy... Maybe later.
Also, muckstar inventory sprite - evilpixie says, that this have no indexed palette. Is this some kind of palette trick?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 05, 2018, 05:11:22 pm
Autopsy... Maybe later.
Also, muckstar inventory sprite - evilpixie says, that this have no indexed palette. Is this some kind of palette trick?

Yes, it uses a custom palette. The trick is to use _CPAL at the end of the resource definition, and the palette must still be 256 colours.
There is a GIMP plugin made by Tylor which automatically converts RGB pictures to this format. I can provide it later or you can try finding it on the forums.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Nord on November 07, 2018, 07:28:12 pm
Autopsy... Maybe later.
Not really good, but  i think better than existed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 07, 2018, 07:30:36 pm
Pretty nice, though the spikes are too small and numerous on the autopsy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Abyss on November 08, 2018, 04:18:39 am
Yes, at the moment it's the only way.
In Piratez I used to press "F" to off the whole illumination that depends on the player.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Toothless Shark on November 13, 2018, 03:43:37 pm
Just a quick question - how do i unlock Gauss weapons? I never found any and am almost finished with fusion weapons research. Have all other weapon types finished (lasers and blasters too, ofc.). I just can't find any gauss weapon to unlock that research.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Valken on November 14, 2018, 06:50:19 am
Hi all,

I'm new here and posted in the bugs forum for this mod and now have a question about the actual missions.

I have encountered my first industrial investigations mission. Upon Agent setup, we only have the old X-Com onesies with flashlight and health kits allowed. All the weapons, armor and ammo were stripped from the Van.

Is the goal here to secure the artifact then leave? The briefing said we were to investigate, stop the cult and apprehend the leader but with no weapons, other than melee and fisticuffs?

I think the mission briefing can be updated to something like "Your mission is to investigate and retrieve any unknown object or artifacts for our team to determine the activities by this cult."

I would appreciate any help here. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: hubaj on November 14, 2018, 09:46:47 am
Hi all,

I'm new here and posted in the bugs forum for this mod and now have a question about the actual missions.

I have encountered my first industrial investigations mission. Upon Agent setup, we only have the old X-Com onesies with flashlight and health kits allowed. All the weapons, armor and ammo were stripped from the Van.

Is the goal here to secure the artifact then leave? The briefing said we were to investigate, stop the cult and apprehend the leader but with no weapons, other than melee and fisticuffs?

I think the mission briefing can be updated to something like "Your mission is to investigate and retrieve any unknown object or artifacts for our team to determine the activities by this cult."

I would appreciate any help here. Thanks!

Some missions (among them industrial investigation) allows only some weapons, equipment and armor to be taken. To check it, you can go to any item listing (craft equpiment screen, purchase screen) and select appropriate filter - you can select filters like rifles, pistols, first aid supplies etc. And there is also filter that shows you equipment allowed for industrial, beach etc. missions.

I personaly use black ops spypistols on these missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 14, 2018, 10:49:16 am
[sarcasm]It's not like it is explained in the Ufopaedia or anything.[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: legionof1 on November 14, 2018, 11:16:06 am
Read or die. :P I feel like some days the intro for both piratez and XCF should be 15 mins of some screaming that as angrily as possible. and then make it unskippable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: hubaj on November 14, 2018, 11:20:44 am
[sarcasm]It's not like it is explained in the Ufopaedia or anything.[/sarcasm]

True, its there. But I figured out the filter thing only after some time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 14, 2018, 11:48:46 am
True, its there. But I figured out the filter thing only after some time.

All right, noted. I can add some article on this; the problem is, I don't know which UI features need additional explanation, if any.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Valken on November 14, 2018, 12:27:41 pm
[sarcasm]It's not like it is explained in the Ufopaedia or anything.[/sarcasm]

Ah noted but I only recently came back to X-Com hence needed a little direction to find all the info. Its not like the mission says to consult the Ufopaedia for further details. I forget how much less hand holding older games were before...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Niewiem on November 14, 2018, 01:43:42 pm
Yeah
Basically first thing you should do when starting any mod here is go to Ufopedia(or any version of it) and read all articles. Then you can start playing.

@Solarius/@Meridian (as this might be more OpenXcom issue than just Xcom Files)
Is there a way to add pop-up window with something like "read the ufopedia before going further!" at the start of game?  I think that would show a lot of people first and most basic step :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Meridian on November 14, 2018, 03:04:29 pm
Yes, put it in the readme file and/or mod portal description.

And if people don't read it, it's their problem... I'm not going to bother the majority with an annoying popup.

Also, not reading it is not bad either... I played xcom as 12/13-year old when it came out, with poor english skills and without any manual (or forum, or chat, or internet)... and I still had tons of fun. You don't need to understand everything immediately to have fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Toothless Shark on November 14, 2018, 08:24:07 pm
So true. I remember watching the starving poet's let's play for this mod - whole second video was only him reading the UFOPEDIA (first video is introduction). I did the same. Just read though it, its really interesting read and nicely done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Valken on November 16, 2018, 05:42:27 am
So I cleared that mission and I wanted to point out some discrepancies but it may be base on my first play through for the Industrial Investigations mission:

1) I cannot find the filter for weapons or gears under a mission specific parameter.
2) I did NOT research other captured cult yet so that may be it. I just built my biolab finally so that may be why #1 was not working yet.
3) Under Ufopaedia, the pistols listed as concealable did not apply to that mission so there must be another filter somewhere. I probably need to do more research with the captured specimens to unlock the tech tree.
4) I figured it out by carrying all the weapons in my inventory to the mission and letting the mission filter out the non allowed weapons. I did complete the objective based on this.

Over all, it felt like a loop trap where some of the weapons listed as concealable cannot be used, from my inventory, and the current mission came up maybe earlier  than my tech tree had allowed.

It was an improvised assault which I completed and that was half of the fun figuring out how to get buy in those situations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Niewiem on November 16, 2018, 09:14:39 am
Labor Items is the thing you are looking for.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Valken on November 16, 2018, 05:59:02 pm
Thanks for the advice Niewiem! I may go back to replay it for fun. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 17, 2018, 05:13:03 pm
Industrial Investigations doesn't use the concealable category, but the labour gear. It's expressly stated in the description!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Toothless Shark on November 17, 2018, 05:52:53 pm
I also remember that in industrial missions i would be able to find 1 or 2 melee weapons close to starting position. You can use those to whack some enemies and acquire their weapons. Just saying.  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 17, 2018, 06:19:39 pm
I also remember that in industrial missions i would be able to find 1 or 2 melee weapons close to starting position. You can use those to whack some enemies and acquire their weapons. Just saying.  ;D

Very good. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Nord on November 19, 2018, 01:55:30 pm
Very good. ;D
In fact, you can not use wrench until research it. Strange...

Also, here is a bit more "alien" pink desert.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 19, 2018, 05:39:21 pm
Just started a new game in 0.9.6 and i have a question:

Am i supposed to feel bad for stabbing sectoids in the back on those very early alien landing sites? I just murdered two whole ufo crews using nothing but knifes and flashlights. One of those little monsters even walked through an access door and turned his back to my agent. Like he was asking to get shivved. Not that i'm complaining - in my last playthrough i got two excavators early game where the higher ranked sectoids panicked and/or controlled half my agents every turn. It just felt very cathartic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Meridian on November 19, 2018, 05:44:30 pm
#SectoidLivesMatter
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 19, 2018, 07:27:22 pm
In fact, you can not use wrench until research it. Strange...

Hmm, looks fine on my end, but maybe I fixed it already.

Also, here is a bit more "alien" pink desert.

Wow, this is pretty awesome. Thank you! It's a great surprise present.

Just started a new game in 0.9.6 and i have a question:

Am i supposed to feel bad for stabbing sectoids in the back on those very early alien landing sites? I just murdered two whole ufo crews using nothing but knifes and flashlights. One of those little monster even walked through an access door and turned his back to my agent. Like he was asking to get shivved. Not that i'm complaining - in my last playthrough i got two excavators early game where the higher ranked sectoids panicked and/or controlled half my agents every turn. It just felt very cathartic.

I wish more players were like you. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 19, 2018, 09:23:38 pm
(https://abload.de/img/screen0013mc43.png)
Victor wasn't entirely sure how to handle this situation. Last time he brought a flamethrower to the zoo the FBI got involved. Then again the mission briefing stated that his team was to neutralize any threats they encountered and he now technically outranked national law enforcement.

This was going to be a good day.

(https://abload.de/img/screen004qifxp.png)

Victor took no pleasure in killing these creatures. How did that poor beast even get stuck in there in the first place? Alas, a job is a job and Victor was glad that his new employer had access to flamethrowers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Korenn on November 19, 2018, 11:41:14 pm
I'm playing an Xcom files campaign on Veteran, and today I was very busy with the kids so the game was just running with me taking a moment to play every now and then when the situation would let me.

And I noticed that after about 12-14 hours of running (computer was on all day), the game was stuttering and sluggish. Seemed like a memory leak to me, so I restarted the game to see if it was any better, and it was not. I'll try rebooting next, but it seemed report-worthy.

[EDIT] a reboot seems to have fixed the issue. I'd put it down to an OS problem, except that open Xcom was the only thing affected.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: legionof1 on November 20, 2018, 06:34:20 am
yeah oxce does not like being left running for extended periods on some machines. Its not the most well optimized engine,
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: kevL on November 20, 2018, 07:16:34 am
... so I restarted the game to see if it was any better, and it was not. I'll try rebooting next,

[EDIT] a reboot seems to have fixed the issue. I'd put it down to an OS problem, except that open Xcom was the only thing affected.

the other game I play, Neverwinter Nights 2, is (reportedly) affected by a similar issue. Game becomes sluggish and stuttery based on how long the computer has been left running (reloading the game doesn't affect it). Apparently, there, it's caused by some sort of truncation of the timing variable on 64-bit systems ...

Fortunately, for Nwn2 players on 64-bit systems, someone coded up a frontend that corrects it [the "Client Extension"]

/just reporting, i have no idea what the nuts and bolts look like
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 20, 2018, 10:31:01 am
Honestly, show me a game that doesn't do this after running 8+ hours straight.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 20, 2018, 07:12:55 pm
Honestly, show me a game that doesn't do this after running 8+ hours straight.
I'm willing to take you up on that if you agree to give those reapers a bigger enclosure  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 21, 2018, 04:05:46 pm
I'm willing to take you up on that if you agree to give those reapers a bigger enclosure  ;D

Minesweeper doesn't count. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 21, 2018, 09:36:50 pm
Minesweeper doesn't count. ;D

 :(

On a totally unrelated note, i took a stab at rewriting the alien alloys ufopedia entry, since the "tritanium-class of materials"-part felt kind of arbitrary:

Quote
"Alien craft are constructed from special alloys with unique properties. We have dubbed this new material 'Tritanium', as it is structurally similar to commercially available titanium alloys. It is unique in that it exhibits shape memory and superelasticity effects while being more durable than any other material known to science. Simply put, it is a self-healing superalloy. It is extremely light and resistant to damage, and can be molded by electro-magnetic methods. This material can be reproduced and used in many kinds of manufacturing processes."

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: zetzet13 on November 21, 2018, 09:50:57 pm
In my humble opinion the text is very nice.

Maybe one could add to the ending "...although we lack the necessary techniques for precise shaping." to hint at further technologies which will be researchable later on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 21, 2018, 10:12:54 pm
Researching alloys doesn't unlock alloy manufacturing, revised the text accordingly:

Quote
"Alien craft are constructed from special alloys with unique properties. We have dubbed this new material 'Tritanium', as it is structurally similar to commercially available titanium alloys. It is unique in that it exhibits shape memory and superelasticity effects while being more durable than any other material known to science. Simply put, it is a self-healing superalloy. It is extremely light and resistant to damage, and can be molded by electro-magnetic methods. We can now rework existing samples, but more research is needed before we can reproduce the material ourselves.

I'd like to add a passage about precise shaping, but i'm running out of space. Maybe replace "We can now rework existing samples" by "We can now rework existing samples to a limited extent"? Nope, too long.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 21, 2018, 10:12:59 pm
No, it's not because of similarity to titanium alloys... It's because that's how this class of materials called in sci-fi.

And the properties you described indeed apply to some types of tritanium... But others are different.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 21, 2018, 10:26:28 pm
I know that Tritanium is a sci-fi staple (in Star Trek for example) - but is it an actual material in the x-com universe? The entry mentions tritanium-class, like it is a pre-existing alloy, but alien alloys seem to be the only example in-universe. If tritanium (or tritanium-like materials) are already known, why do we need to research alien alloys to manufacture and engineer them? Why is the material called Tritanium when there's a whole class of Tritanium-like materials?


The "shape memory and self-healing properties"-part is a nod to the material found in the alleged Roswell incident, which was decribed to have similar properties - extremely durable, light and that it would always resume it's original shape after being deformed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 22, 2018, 11:38:42 am
I know that Tritanium is a sci-fi staple (in Star Trek for example) - but is it an actual material in the x-com universe? The entry mentions tritanium-class, like it is a pre-existing alloy, but alien alloys seem to be the only example in-universe. If tritanium (or tritanium-like materials) are already known, why do we need to research alien alloys to manufacture and engineer them? Why is the material called Tritanium when there's a whole class of Tritanium-like materials?

Sorry, what I meant to say was that it this class of material exists in-universe as a concept, but not in reality (at least in a meaningful/practical way). So after examining the Alien Alloys the engineers are like, "hey, this stuff we dreamed of actually exists!"


The "shape memory and self-healing properties"-part is a nod to the material found in the alleged Roswell incident, which was decribed to have similar properties - extremely durable, light and that it would always resume it's original shape after being deformed.

OK, I haven't heard this piece of UFO lore. I guess it is fine, it's no living metal.
Still, I'd much rather add a new article than modify the old one... The main reason is to have mercy on translators... :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: The_Funktasm on November 22, 2018, 02:43:32 pm
I need to start a game of this both to learn and to have fun.

On a side note though, have you heard of "Kamen Rider Amazons"? It and its squad of dangerous entity bounty hunters reminded me of xcom and got me playing it again. Not sure if it'd provide any ideas but the main plot involves genetically augmented beastmen escaping from a lab and becoming quasi-cryptids.

In ANY case...


Elwood:"There's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out, and we're wearing sunglasses."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 22, 2018, 03:27:32 pm
Still, I'd much rather add a new article than modify the old one... The main reason is to have mercy on translators... :)
I can totally understand that, i just thought i'd share some of the stuff i come up with. I have a background in material science and tried to find some "real-world" analogue that would fit the description of alien alloys (both in-universe as well as what's been reported in alleged UFO cases). Seeing how tritanium has it's origin in titanium alloys being used in high-tech and aerospace applications (as in, it's titanium but better), i thought it would be fitting to base it on those - similar to how alien engineering mentions that alien devices used by cults use common electronic parts, but according to very different rules of logic.

You might want to modify the article regardless, as it mentions that alloys can be reproduced and reformed - which isn't possible until you research alloy engineering and munitions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 22, 2018, 08:07:25 pm
On a side note though, have you heard of "Kamen Rider Amazons"?[/color]

Sadly, no... But I think Kamen Rider was a sentai show? (Never watched any sentai.)

Elwood:"There's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out, and we're wearing sunglasses."

I think you understand this mod. ;)

I can totally understand that, i just thought i'd share some of the stuff i come up with. I have a background in material science and tried to find some "real-world" analogue that would fit the description of alien alloys (both in-universe as well as what's been reported in alleged UFO cases). Seeing how tritanium has it's origin in titanium alloys being used in high-tech and aerospace applications (as in, it's titanium but better), i thought it would be fitting to base it on those - similar to how alien engineering mentions that alien devices used by cults use common electronic parts, but according to very different rules of logic.

You might want to modify the article regardless, as it mentions that alloys can be reproduced and reformed - which isn't possible until you research alloy engineering and munitions.

Then how about this:

"Alien craft are constructed from special alloys with unique properties, placing them in the 'Tritanium' class of materials, previously thought to be only theoretical. They are extremely light and durable, and can be molded by electro-magnetic methods. When desired, they can exhibit shape memory and superelasticity effects while being more durable than any other material known to science - basically a a self-healing superalloy. This material can be reproduced and used in many kinds of manufacturing processes."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 22, 2018, 08:48:00 pm
TBH i think either is fine. I rewrote the article for my own enjoyment and i don't want to "pressure" you into changing stuff that you're ok with. It's your mod. In the end it's bogus science anyway :P
This might indded be better suited for a seperate lore article/report, given the constraints of ufopedia articles in general.

Again, what might need to be changed (or at least clarified) is that researching alien alloys does not unlock alloy manufacturing. The article states that the material "can be reproduced" (which is verbatim from the original Ufopedia entry), but in contrast to vanilla XCOM it doesn't unlock alloy manufacturing.


BTW, does the mod replace or modify palettes used in the ufopedia articles? Right now i am trying to modify the background image (BACK08.SCR), and i've noticed that the color of the buttons and the upper left box (which contains the name) is subtely different when compared to vanilla openxcom:
(https://abload.de/thumb/screen0132mfah.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=screen0132mfah.png)(https://abload.de/thumb/screen0145udua.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=screen0145udua.png)

This is probably a dumb question, i still have to figure out how openxcom handles this whole "indexed images"-thing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 22, 2018, 08:52:43 pm
OK, good point. I will do that. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 25, 2018, 02:53:43 am
BTW, have you thought about rebalancing the helicopter vs. the Osprey? The major advantage the Osprey has in real life over conventional helicopters is speed and range. Speedwise it's ok (between the helicopter and the Dragonfly), but the range is the opposite of what i would expect, seeing how the Osprey is also capable of aerial refueling.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 25, 2018, 04:53:05 pm
BTW, have you thought about rebalancing the helicopter vs. the Osprey? The major advantage the Osprey has in real life over conventional helicopters is speed and range. Speedwise it's ok (between the helicopter and the Dragonfly), but the range is the opposite of what i would expect, seeing how the Osprey is also capable of aerial refueling.

I'll buff the Osprey a little.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: BlackStaff on November 25, 2018, 08:46:14 pm
I hope this question hasn't already been asked!  :-[
In your archive you have the "common" and "standard" folders.
Why?
In your last archive the executable is dated 07/10. The latest OXCE version indicates 05/11.
Your archive would be lighter if you didn't put the OXCE files and we would avoid having an older version. I tested XFiles by installing the latest version of OXCE and everything seems to work.
My 2 cents !  ;)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 25, 2018, 08:50:30 pm
I hope this question hasn't already been asked!  :-[
In your archive you have the "common" and "standard" folders.
Why?
In your last archive the executable is dated 07/10. The latest OXCE version indicates 05/11.
Your archive would be lighter if you didn't put the OXCE files and we would avoid having an older version. I tested XFiles by installing the latest version of OXCE and everything seems to work.
My 2 cents !  ;)

I don't understand your point at all.
Are you saying I shouldn't distribute OXCE with the mod? How on Earth would people know then which version the release was made for? Baka!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 25, 2018, 10:18:57 pm
For what it's worth, i also prefer to having it bundled with the download.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: BlackStaff on November 26, 2018, 12:42:03 am
I don't understand your point at all.
Are you saying I shouldn't distribute OXCE with the mod? How on Earth would people know then which version the release was made for? Baka!
Okay! So your Mod has a direct relationship with the OXCE version. That's why the OXCE version you give is an earlier version.
That's not a reproach I'm making.
I didn't understand why you were putting OXCE in your archives when we could upload it to the meridian post.
Thanks and sorry to ask you this question!

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Niewiem on November 26, 2018, 09:23:47 am
It is very simple really.

Current release is based and tested on some version of OXCE. For best user experience they should use same version as modder otherwise they might have unforseen bugs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 28, 2018, 12:26:37 am
->STR_ADVANCED_AI_UFOPEDIA: "This artificial intelligence unit was built using advanced programming advancements, such as evolving algorithms and neural networks. It is capable of learning and self-programming, adapting to previous experiences. It can be employed in a variety of technologies, like robots or intelligent weapon systems."
 
Suggestion: concepts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 28, 2018, 09:58:40 am
Hehe, a pointy good point :)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Toothless Shark on November 28, 2018, 05:24:51 pm
This reminds me, what is the difference between AI that you can buy and advanced AI you use alien electronics to build? I remember while ago that it was mentioned that you can train advanced AI like your normal troops but in my recent game i wasn't able to. I only noticed slight difference in starting stats and that's it. Nothing worth spending alien electronics on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 28, 2018, 07:49:09 pm
Totally unrelated:
It's kind of amusing how it's okay bring crossbows or combat knifes to the beach, but not tritanium knives or shivs.  Might i suggest adding both to the allowed list for beach/sporting gear (since the tritanium knife practically replaces the combat knife?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 28, 2018, 09:45:20 pm
This reminds me, what is the difference between AI that you can buy and advanced AI you use alien electronics to build? I remember while ago that it was mentioned that you can train advanced AI like your normal troops but in my recent game i wasn't able to. I only noticed slight difference in starting stats and that's it. Nothing worth spending alien electronics on.

This division is now defunct, since I decided to make all AIs trainable (since you are stuck with basic AI for so long, and it's no fun).

Totally unrelated:
It's kind of amusing how it's okay bring crossbows or combat knifes to the beach, but not tritanium knives or shivs.  Might i suggest adding both to the allowed list for beach/sporting gear (since the tritanium knife practically replaces the combat knife?

It looks kinda different from a normal knife, but you're right - it's not something people would be overly suspicious about. I'll allow it too on the beach mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 29, 2018, 12:11:52 am
Thanks, that simplifies things a bit  :D

I hope i am not going overboard with this, but would consider adding seperate images to spider subtypes? They are hard enough to differentiate in daylight, but encountering them in the underground caverns - where they are blocked by the tight corridors so you can't see them - doesn't make things any easier.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 29, 2018, 12:08:52 pm
I hope i am not going overboard with this, but would consider adding seperate images to spider subtypes? They are hard enough to differentiate in daylight, but encountering them in the underground caverns - where they are blocked by the tight corridors so you can't see them - doesn't make things any easier.

No problem! Just send me the new graphics. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 29, 2018, 05:45:26 pm
I have also redone the default giant spider inventory image and moved all the templates 6 pixels to the right so they don't overlap the weapon boxes. There's something funky going on with the colors - i have used the standard battlescape palette, but the colors always come out a bit lighter/brighter in the mod. If you can point me to the right palette to use i'd happily redo them (or other image files for that matter).

(https://abload.de/thumb/inventory_giant_spidezki1w.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=inventory_giant_spidezki1w.png)(https://abload.de/thumb/inventory_giant_spidezsdf8.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=inventory_giant_spidezsdf8.png)(https://abload.de/thumb/inventory_giant_spide74fyu.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=inventory_giant_spide74fyu.png)(https://abload.de/thumb/inventory_giant_spide4ucr4.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=inventory_giant_spide4ucr4.png)(https://abload.de/thumb/inventory_giant_spidebcdxs.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=inventory_giant_spidebcdxs.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Wolfstarr on November 29, 2018, 05:54:28 pm
Don’t forget I posted some spider frames in the resources section that would fit the HWP frame :)

Edit: in the zip file here :) - https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6719.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 29, 2018, 06:29:10 pm
...but do we really need more of those little monsters?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 29, 2018, 09:30:07 pm
I have also redone the default giant spider inventory image and moved all the templates 6 pixels to the right so they don't overlap the weapon boxes. There's something funky going on with the colors - i have used the standard battlescape palette, but the colors always come out a bit lighter/brighter in the mod. If you can point me to the right palette to use i'd happily redo them (or other image files for that matter).

Wow, that was fast! I'll review it ASAP. And don't worry about the palette.

Don’t forget I posted some spider frames in the resources section that would fit the HWP frame :)

I haven't forgotten :) I just don't know what to do with them yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 29, 2018, 10:00:25 pm
Wow, that was fast! I'll review it ASAP. And don't worry about the palette.
Yeah, but can you tell me which palette xcomfiles actually uses for these (or for the Ufopedia articles)? Because i've been working on the Ufopedia background image and some of the colors are off, but the rest are identical.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 29, 2018, 10:13:04 pm
Added the new spiders to the mod. Good work!

Yeah, but can you tell me which palette xcomfiles actually uses for these (or for the Ufopedia articles)? Because i've been working on the Ufopedia background image and some of the colors are off, but the rest are identical.

It's a bit complicated:
- stuff which appears both on the battlescape and in the Pedia (bigobs, paperdolls) use one palette (paleta)
- stuff which appears only on the battlescape (floorobs, handobs, unit sprites, terrain, etc.) use a very similar palette (battle); bigobs not used in the pedia (like human corpses) can also use it
- standard Pedia articles use a different type (ufo-research); in OXCE, you can also use custom palettes for this
There are also separate palettes used for other stuff, like the basescape, backgrounds etc.

Attached the three palettes I mentioned.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.6: Tales of The Abyss
Post by: krautbernd on November 30, 2018, 01:37:47 am
Yeah, GIMP apparently can't handle photoshop palettes. Nevermind, it's not that important as long as i know that using the normal palettes is ok.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2018, 06:48:35 pm
Version 0.9.7 is released!

0.9.7:
- New briefing music tracks.
- New Staff Inputs (one by BTAxis).
- New Ufopaedia articles.
- New facilities: X-Com Virtualized Headquarters, Drone Bay (two variants).
- New units: X-Com Roboturret (two variants), Osiron Elite, Red Dreamsprite, David Vincent, Gertrude Ellison.
- New armor: Astral Armor.
- New items: Dream Blade, Delicious Cake, First Aid Kit (former First Aid Kit renamed to Medipack).
- New missions: David Vincent's Secret Shelter, Ambush of Alien Abductors, Osiron Hidden Warehause Assault (all by Finnik), Crazed Antmen Village, Horrors of Antarctica, Dreamscape Journey.
- New Forest mapblocks (by Finnik).
- New Farm mapblock (by Finnik).
- New Alien Base mapblocks.
- Enhanced Pink Desert terrain (by Nord).
- Buffed Medical Bag.
- Enhanced vanilla UFO sprites (removed useless black masking).
- New paperdolls for Giant Spider variants (by Krautbernd).
- Enhanced Aquatoid paperdoll (by Nord).
- Added special colours for smoke and stun explosions.
- Overhauled alien mission generation system (moved everything to scripts).
- Refactored the laser weapons tech tree.
- Increased Osprey range.
- Technomads are now guaranteed to give Cyberweb Manufacturing.
- Rebalanced the UAC Rifle, the M60 and the BlackOps LMG.
- Pickaxe now has separate modes for digging and hitting people.
- Disabled armor modifiers on extreme difficulty levels.
- Some underground maps now are properly lit at night.
- Changed rank 4 of the Ethereal race to Soldiers.
- Most cave missions are darker again, as daylight vision was kicking in.
- Removed grates from the Vampire Castle (by Dioxine).
- Heavy Cannon and Auto-Cannon now open the M.A.G.M.A. arc (like the Light Cannon).
- T'leth Embassy now requires Underwater Operations.
- Ethereals are more fire resistant.
- Fixed unarmored dog armor values.
- Fixed enemy hybrids' excessive night vision.
- Fixed the Knockout Grenade.
- Fixed the Prison mapblock.
- Fixed Flame Spider explosion.
- Fixed Cleric of Apocalypse animation.
- Fixed the lack of mission rating below -1000.
- Fixed a crash on the Cydonia or Bust article in Japanese.
- More fixes of Undersea City buildings.
- Minor fixes.
Title: (How) can piratez and xcom files mods live in harmony on a linux machine?
Post by: null-painter on December 02, 2018, 07:09:30 pm
So, not too sure if this is the appropriate place for this post - perhaps should be in OXCE thread or piratez, (or not even mentioned at all)?

I'm having trouble getting piratez and xcom files to co-exist *nicely* on my linux machine...  this may also happen to Windoze users, can't confirm that myself. I can manage to play both games if I maintain two copies of everything, so maybe this isn't worth any developer time or hassle.

Also, I'd be happy to write a short post for stickying somewhere about how to make both work on a linux setup if that would be most useful (I wasn't able to find much info about this by searching, as the instructions tend to be for windows users).

Details:

OXCE binary uses a (user-specific) file @ $HOME/openxcom/options.cfg. This seems to be modified when OXCE is run somehow.

If xpiratez and xcom files are both placed in the mods folder of a linux OXCE install (https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended (https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended)), there is no mention of openxcom files in options.cfg - those gals hog the spotlight, I guess.  This means a user can't run openxcom files.

If the linux OXCE binary is moved into the xcom files folder (https://openxcom.mod.io/the-x-com-files), just replacing windows .exe it is possible to play easily.
However, adding xpiratez mods to this setup does not make piratez selectable from the mods menu. I guess the men in black redact the config file?

Ideally, it would be possible to have both in the same mods folder and switch between in the mods menu?

Are there significant problems with having a two folder setup?

1. My options.cfg file is shared by both "versions", which I thought would make me lose my preferred options, when switching games (I use "auto end battle", arrows and TUs on path, and "smooth bullet camera" - which aren't on by default). However, this isn't the case somehow - those settings were preserved between the two mods somehow? Maybe I'm just totally insane  ::).

2. I have to maintain two copies of  OXCE, UFO, and TFTD files on my machine (I guess TFTD isn't needed, though?) Not too big of a deal - these aren't huge files.

3. What happens if a user enables someting in xcom files that is verboten in piratez and switches games? I didn't want to try it.

At any rate, thanks all of you for making awesome games for us lurkers!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: ohartenstein23 on December 02, 2018, 07:29:06 pm
Hi null-painter, I use both mods on a linux system and don't have to maintain two copies of everything, though that is generally easier if you don't want to do some reconfiguring work. Also this is an issue for anyone running multiple, exclusive mega-mods.

You can use command line options to specify which configuration, data, and user files are read when the OpenXcomEx executable is run. For example,
Code: [Select]
/path/to/your/OXCE/install/OpenXcomEx -user "/path/to/your/OXCE/install/user" -config "/path/to/your/OXCE/install/config_piratez"
will tell the game to look for mods and saves in the "user" folder in your OXCE install and the options.cfg file found in the "config_piratez". If both XCF and piratez are in "OXCE/user/mods", then you can set the game to run piratez when the options.cfg in "config_piratez" is passed to the executable, and run XCF for another options.cfg placed in a different folder. I keep a set of bash script files to run the game with different options.cfg files for each set of mods I play.

If you wanted to keep two separate OXCE folders, you could use a symlink to the UFO/TFTD files if you didn't want to maintain multiple copies of those folders.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2018, 08:50:34 pm
There's a nasty bug in one terrain... I'm uploading a fixed version right now, but if you already downloaded 0.9.7, you can just replace the files attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: HT on December 02, 2018, 09:35:39 pm
Version 0.9.7 is released!


- New facilities: X-Com Virtualized Headquarters, Drone Bay (two variants).
- New units: X-Com Roboturret (two variants), Osiron Elite, Red Dreamsprite, David Vincent, Gertrude Ellison.
- New armor: Astral Armor.
- New items: Dream Blade, Delicious Cake, First Aid Kit (former First Aid Kit renamed to Medipack).
- New missions: David Vincent's Secret Shelter, Ambush of Alien Abductors, Osiron Hidden Warehause Assault (all by Finnik), Crazed Antmen Village, Horrors of Antarctica, Dreamscape Journey.

It took you years, but finally we have a X-COM adaptation of The Thing, yay! Flamers not included though. Can you still do the mission if you got rid of the monster missions already?
Actually, can you still do the special cult missions (aka "Capture Mister Wang" and so on) if you got rid of the cults already?
Also, you can build the improved headquarters without having to research it first (or at least it happens so in my save).
As for the robo-turrets, they're expendable bots, but sadly you need to build a specific building for that instead of recycling a "defense facility" like Piratez does. Do you need to buy special ammo for the Gaus/Minigun drone variants though?
Interesting dream mission, I didn't expect something like this for XCOM. However, from what I understood, you need to have the PSI-user hurt in order to use the healing item on him/her*, right? Since the enemies here are meant to be the user's inner demons, does that mean that killing everything means your agent became mentally perfect?  ;)


*We probably need different sprites for female agents and Hybrids though, as otherwise it looks odd.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2018, 09:50:16 pm
It took you years, but finally we have a X-COM adaptation of The Thing, yay! Flamers not included though. Can you still do the mission if you got rid of the monster missions already?

Yes, it's not related to monsters.

Actually, can you still do the special cult missions (aka "Capture Mister Wang" and so on) if you got rid of the cults already?

Yes, destroying the cult doesn't mean destroying all its members.

Also, you can build the improved headquarters without having to research it first (or at least it happens so in my save).

Hmmm... Might be a bug. I'll check.

As for the robo-turrets, they're expendable bots, but sadly you need to build a specific building for that instead of recycling a "defense facility" like Piratez does. Do you need to buy special ammo for the Gaus/Minigun drone variants though?

No, you don't have to buy/make the ammo.
And Piratez still require more buildings :)

Interesting dream mission, I didn't expect something like this for XCOM. However, from what I understood, you need to have the PSI-user hurt in order to use the healing item on him/her*, right? Since the enemies here are meant to be the user's inner demons, does that mean that killing everything means your agent became mentally perfect?  ;)

Maybe not perfect, but better :)

*We probably need different sprites for female agents and Hybrids though, as otherwise it looks odd.

Eh? They've always had different sprites.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Meridian on December 02, 2018, 10:54:35 pm
- Fixed the lack of mission rating below -1000.

Mission rating was not fixed, only month rating as far as I can see...

... and only until -9999... but what about poor us, who get even worse score?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: HT on December 02, 2018, 11:02:41 pm
Eh? They've always had different sprites.

I see. It doesn't work too well with the battle generator, that's the issue.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2018, 11:18:53 pm
Mission rating was not fixed, only month rating as far as I can see...

Yes, I made a mistake.

... and only until -9999... but what about poor us, who get even worse score?

This bug has been fixed already. :P
(I released this screenshot first :P )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: null-painter on December 03, 2018, 12:10:59 am
Thank you for your help, ohartenstein23!

Those command line options work great. I now also have two shell scripts to run the two games - much cleaner!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: thisnameismeta on December 03, 2018, 02:57:04 am
Just found a bug that i didn't see explicitly called out as existing in 0.9.6 (I haven't tested in 9.7). The mission "Root of all Evil" for the black lotus, shows up as "str_black_lotus_shrine" or some variant close to that when it initially appears on the globe. Clicking on the mission gives the proper name, it's only the initial notification that shows up incorrectly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Quickmind on December 03, 2018, 04:42:30 am
Wow! Does that picture mean I'm now Internet famous?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on December 03, 2018, 01:15:39 pm
Just found a bug that i didn't see explicitly called out as existing in 0.9.6 (I haven't tested in 9.7). The mission "Root of all Evil" for the black lotus, shows up as "str_black_lotus_shrine" or some variant close to that when it initially appears on the globe. Clicking on the mission gives the proper name, it's only the initial notification that shows up incorrectly.
Has been mentioned in the bug thread, i'd wager it's fixed, though i haven't checked out 0.9.7 yet.

EDIT:
Just noticed that advanced&improved labs still require elerium/alloys and other UFO parts. I feel like the item costs need to be rebalanced, since aside from the elerium (which is pretty easy to come by at that point) everything can be produced from scratch. Might i suggest adding multitools, alloy welders and alien electronics? Because those seem like things that might be useful during labwork. Maybe some exosuits for protection (though you could argue these are included in the construction cost...)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Johnny_exe on December 03, 2018, 09:18:28 pm
Hello there! Is there any way by chance to build X-Com Virtualized Headquarters over the normal one?

And how to manufacture Viper:?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on December 03, 2018, 11:22:02 pm
Hi Solarius, sorry for bringing this up again, but i am trying to create a  custom armor set for the mod, and i'm running into trouble with colors (again).

I've managed to convert the zipped palettes you posted earlier, but they are more or less identical with the standard palettes (and as far as i can tell only used on certain maps, like sewers/mars etc.). I noticed that you are using a custom PALETTES.DAT which probably explains the problems i am running into. Could you post the actual palette this is based on or the changes you have made to the vanilla palette?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Meridian on December 03, 2018, 11:30:26 pm
Hi Solarius, sorry for bringing this up again, but i am trying to create a  custom armor set for the mod, and i'm running into trouble with colors (again).

I've managed to convert the zipped palettes you posted earlier, but they are more or less identical with the standard palettes (and as far as i can tell only used on certain maps, like sewers/mars etc.). I noticed that you are using a custom PALETTES.DAT which probably explains the problems i am running into. Could you post the actual palette this is based on or the changes you have made to the vanilla palette?

What kind of problems exactly?

I would recommend using vanilla palettes; and accept that the final product will look differently in XCF.

Otherwise we just end up with incompatible resources which can be used in one mod only... and that would effectively be the end of openxcom modding.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on December 04, 2018, 12:35:49 am
I'm having problems with the colors being too dark in general and the highlights being too bright. I could avoid this if i had acess to the palette the mod uses, but right now i'm fishing in the dark so to speak:
(https://abload.de/thumb/screen007dke5y.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=screen007dke5y.png)(https://abload.de/thumb/screen008i8dzt.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=screen008i8dzt.png)

TBH i'm just trying to edit an existing set of sprites specifically for the mod. The whole point of this is to make it "fit in", which is why i'd like to know which colors the mod is using. This isn't meant to be an 'universal' mod, since all i'm doing is modifying stats and shifting colors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 04, 2018, 03:22:39 pm
Well, I don't have any special tools. I go with Meridian's approach of "use vanilla and just let it go".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on December 04, 2018, 06:32:05 pm
Well, I don't have any special tools. I go with Meridian's approach of "use vanilla and just let it go".

Yeah, but where did you get / how did you create the palette? It's not the vanilla UFO palette nor the TFTD one.

For comparison - left is the vanilla (UFO) battlescape palette, right is the one X-Com Files uses (granted, not the "actual" palettes, but how the game displays and image with all indexed colors):

(https://abload.de/img/vanilla_inv_palh4ipt.png) (https://abload.de/img/xcomfiles_inv_palfvcej.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 04, 2018, 08:16:52 pm
Well, RSS Wizard made it for me. It's in GEODATA/PALETTES.DAT.

EDIT: I have released a fixed version.

- Updated to the latest OXCE.
- Fixed some articles available too soon.
- Fixed memetic hay.
- Fixed Viper assembly (hopefully).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: null-painter on December 07, 2018, 02:39:36 am
Hmm, bug report. Running 9.6. Entered combat with some floaty urchin things ("muckstars", I guess?) for the first time. I middle mouse clicked one to look at it and the game crashed with:

Code: [Select]
(zenity:7586): Gtk-WARNING **: 18:30:57.245: Could not load a pixbuf from /org/gtk/libgtk/icons/48x48/status/image-missing.png.
This may indicate that pixbuf loaders or the mime database could not be found.
**
Gtk:ERROR:../../../../gtk/gtkiconhelper.c:494:ensure_surface_for_gicon: assertion failed (error == NULL): Failed to load /org/gtk/libgtk/icons/48x48/status/image-missing.png: Unrecognized image file format (gdk-pixbuf-error-quark, 3)
Aborted (core dumped)
OpenXcom has crashed: /home/scoundrel/games/xcom/mods2/mods/XComFiles/Resources/Races_Compilation/MuckstarRace/inventory_MUCKSTAR.png: OpenXcom is supporting only 8bit graphic

Let me know if any further data would be helpful, and I'll try to provide.

Awesome mod, by the way. It's got a great feel, and I think the progression of your organizations capabilities vs the difficulties of missions (recently took a crack at durathread factory with grenade launchers, thrown explosives, nitro rifles, and desert eagles - I was really close, but had to withdraw with only 4 of my 6 original crew). I'm already a big fan!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 07, 2018, 10:45:30 am
Thank you! I hope the mod keeps you entertained.
And it is an old bug - no point playing outdated releases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Johnny_exe on December 07, 2018, 12:35:22 pm
Hello there! Is it intended that Viper travels as far as mudranger? 250 away from base, so short distance T.T
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 07, 2018, 01:19:59 pm
Hello there! Is it intended that Viper travels as far as mudranger? 250 away from base, so short distance T.T

Hmm, sounds like a bug... I'll check,thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: null-painter on December 07, 2018, 06:03:16 pm
Is there an "armor effectiveness" type of stat (like in piratez) in play for weapons in this mod?

For instance, the crossbow says that it is "better at piercing Kevlar than bullets". Is it just due to cutting damage vs kinetic? 

Looking at Starving Poet's let's play, it seems like some weapons used to ignore % armor, but I can't find a way to see if this is the case anymore.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Niewiem on December 07, 2018, 09:17:34 pm
It would need to have similar info to that
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: legionof1 on December 08, 2018, 12:01:23 am
Is there an "armor effectiveness" type of stat (like in piratez) in play for weapons in this mod?

For instance, the crossbow says that it is "better at piercing Kevlar than bullets". Is it just due to cutting damage vs kinetic? 

Looking at Starving Poet's let's play, it seems like some weapons used to ignore % armor, but I can't find a way to see if this is the case anymore.

The same format from piratez is used here, although the button to find the detailed stats is named differently, its in the same place on a pedia page.  The possible variables are also the same as both use OXCE as the base engine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: null-painter on December 08, 2018, 02:41:15 am
Thanks for the help - I did find a couple of "armor ignoring" weapons - they seem a little less common in early game than piratez, and changes were made since Poet's game that caused my confusion.

Another possible bug (running current code, I think, so it might be relevant):
Code: [Select]
Gtk:ERROR:../../../../gtk/gtkiconhelper.c:494:ensure_surface_for_gicon: assertion failed (error == NULL): Failed to load /org/gtk/libgtk/icons/48x48/status/image-missing.png: Unrecognized image file format (gdk-pixbuf-error-quark, 3)
Aborted (core dumped)
OpenXcom has crashed: There is already TileEngine movingUnit

This was during "nightmare in antartica" or some such, first mission I played like this. Happened on enemy turn with some pink humanoid monster. Let me know if I can provide more details.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: legionof1 on December 08, 2018, 07:35:02 am
yep thats a new bug, looks like solar made an error with one of the enemies graphics files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 08, 2018, 06:29:11 pm
I tested all these creatures before the release and they all worked fine. Can you provide a save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: null-painter on December 08, 2018, 06:50:55 pm
Sure thing! Here is the "auto battle" for the relevant battle.

However, I suspect there was some kind of logic/pathing/etc bug rather than a missing graphics type of bug as it is not be reliably reproducable.
Middle clicking on the 3 forms of nightmare fuel I encountered also works fine.

Also, the fatal error was:
Code: [Select]
OpenXcom has crashed: There is already TileEngine movingUnit
 Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 08, 2018, 07:07:40 pm
Thanks. Unfortunately I've been unable to reproduce the bug... All seems to be working fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Johnny_exe on December 10, 2018, 06:55:27 pm
Hello there good people.

Comrade Solarius Scorch can you tell please what is "Snapping turtle construction" and how to use it:?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 10, 2018, 09:16:26 pm
Hello there good people.

Comrade Solarius Scorch can you tell please what is "Snapping turtle construction" and how to use it:?

It's an item recovered after you capture a Snapping Turtle. It has no use yet. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Johnny_exe on December 10, 2018, 09:37:47 pm
It's an item recovered after you capture a Snapping Turtle. It has no use yet. :)

oh okay, will be waiting than x)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: tkzv on December 11, 2018, 10:45:25 pm
Just saw https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles Nice!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: null-painter on December 13, 2018, 03:02:53 am
I was on a Black Lotus mission and feel pretty sure I encountered a totally invisible enemy. I had two agents with their backs against the dragonfly wall with full TUs. Something came right up on them and melee'd them both to death with some kind of blade.

I guess it makes sense for some ninja-y organization to have some invisibility, but I'm not too sure how to counter it. Are they literally unseeable? Any advice?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Alex_D on December 13, 2018, 04:24:14 am
I was on a Black Lotus mission and feel pretty sure I encountered a totally invisible enemy. I had two agents with their backs against the dragonfly wall with full TUs. Something came right up on them and melee'd them both to death with some kind of blade.

I guess it makes sense for some ninja-y organization to have some invisibility, but I'm not too sure how to counter it. Are they literally unseeable? Any advice?

These are probably
the Ninja Assassins. They look identical to the Ninja Warriors, except for the name and they are quite stealthy until you are like 4 tiles away. The early game has no counter to it other than tactics and a methodical approach. First, you only fight them during the day if possible. There is no reason to give them additional advantages. Second, you use (and abuse) the smoke grenades so to "level the playing field" (the unit cannot see you either). Third, bunch your people in an area of the map, where there are few or only one easy approach. You could lit the ground on fire so these units path their way toward your group the way you want. Fourth and key, use scouts with motion scanners (or dogs) to step out a bit from the centre of the smoke. Once you detect a yellow arrow without a visible unit (press ALT after a scan), that's a Ninja Assassin. You can direct all of your firepower towards that location (picture Predator "Contact!" scene :) ). Finally, you can speed up the research of the large HWP (aka tanks), Ninjas will attack them instead if they are closer. Until you research Cyber Armour, your weaker units are at risk of insta-death from them. Have no mercy towards them  :)
EDIT: Spoiler added.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Jimboman on December 15, 2018, 03:48:09 pm
Enjoying Xcomfiles Solar, great mod!  Only in the first year at the moment and waiting to get choppers!

I haven't got to underwater missions but I was wondering, what weapons can you use there?  Can you use the Russian ADS amphibious rifles?

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ads.htm

These look great for an xcom-type unit that operates on both land and underwater missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Alex_D on December 16, 2018, 09:44:05 pm
One question about underwater missions:
Advanced Underwater Operations  makes the larger sub "Trident" available. However, afterwards, many other underwater missions still show with the smaller sub "Calypso". Is it supposed to be this way? Is there any way to know in advance which sub is going to be when?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on December 17, 2018, 07:03:14 am
Without looking at the map scripts my very limited understading in the matter tells me that the big sub might only be generated on missions that are unlocked by advanced underwater warfare, since it's not an actual vehicle.
Please let me be right
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: justaround on December 17, 2018, 09:41:55 am
Please let me be right

You are. I've mentioned that issue myself earlier in this thread. Bigger submarines are just constructions made as part of the missions, not as a vehicle. The science developments seemingly unlocking vehicles in reality unlock just those missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Carfax on December 17, 2018, 05:55:43 pm
I recently started a new game and was positively surprised by the, at least for me, new dog ui with the third button for sniffing. As i continued on i had an idea regarding nightmissions. Don´t know
if something like this is even possible but i wanted to share it anyway. Is it possible to give vehicles or HWP the ability to toogle headlights or similar devices during night missions?
Regards Carfax
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 18, 2018, 05:58:06 pm
Enjoying Xcomfiles Solar, great mod!  Only in the first year at the moment and waiting to get choppers!

I haven't got to underwater missions but I was wondering, what weapons can you use there?  Can you use the Russian ADS amphibious rifles?

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ads.htm

These look great for an xcom-type unit that operates on both land and underwater missions.

Hey man! Thanks!
Actually, there is one problem with this: we can restrict normal (surface) items from appearing underwater, but we cannot restrict underwater items from appearing on normal surface missions. Therefore, we need to be careful with such ideas, because any underwater weapon will also be usable on the surface, with the same parameters.
It doesn't mean your idea is unviable, but I'm not sure how to design this.

One question about underwater missions:

Yes, as per the explanations above, the mission doesn't know what you have researched. Therefore subs must be assigned to mission maps directly. I can only make sure that a mission is not available before a given sub is researched.

Without looking at the map scripts my very limited understading in the matter tells me that the big sub might only be generated on missions that are unlocked by advanced underwater warfare, since it's not an actual vehicle.
Please let me be right

I also hope you're right :)

I recently started a new game and was positively surprised by the, at least for me, new dog ui with the third button for sniffing. As i continued on i had an idea regarding nightmissions. Don´t know if something like this is even possible but i wanted to share it anyway. Is it possible to give vehicles or HWP the ability to toogle headlights or similar devices during night missions?

Unfortunately, lights are only toggable for the entire squad, not individual units. Therefore I have (effectively) removed this option to keep the darkness mechanics coherent.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: tkzv on December 18, 2018, 11:00:34 pm
Hey man! Thanks!
Actually, there is one problem with this: we can restrict normal (surface) items from appearing underwater, but we cannot restrict underwater items from appearing on normal surface missions. Therefore, we need to be careful with such ideas, because any underwater weapon will also be usable on the surface, with the same parameters.
It doesn't mean your idea is unviable, but I'm not sure how to design this.

Wikipedia says its underwater range is 18-25 metres, depending on the depth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADS_amphibious_rifle About as far as most assault rifles in the mod isn't it? :)

I suppose, most other underwater guns have similar range and perform in air just fine at this range. (Some of them break down after several hundred shots in air, though.) The problem with ADS — it was designed only in 2007.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Anon011 on December 18, 2018, 11:58:39 pm
The problem with ADS — it was designed only in 2007.
How about this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_underwater_rifle
Designed in the '70s
Could fit nicely for underwater missions
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Carfax on December 19, 2018, 12:11:56 am
Quote
Unfortunately, lights are only toggable for the entire squad, not individual units
What?  :o Wait a minute. I allways (played xcom since release every two or three years) though the squadlights were just there for player convenience/cosmetics and not actual beeing considered as light sources during night missions.
But if i understand you correctly in a scenario where two humans fight during the night the one with sqaudlights on would be spottet by the other one earlier because he is emitting light?
Please correct me if i´m wrong.
p.s. to bad the lights are only togable for the whole squad.

Regards Carfax
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: tkzv on December 19, 2018, 01:42:36 am
How about this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_underwater_rifle
Designed in the '70s
Could fit nicely for underwater missions
Others that fit the timeframe and have Wikipedia pictures:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-DT_amphibious_rifle — barely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPP-1_underwater_pistol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_P11 — has a nasty drawback — reloading requires a workshop :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speargun — would double as a sports equipment.
Last year I tried to make icon sets (for XCF or TFTD), but didn't like the results and then lost them with a hard drive. Now that I'm learning Blender, maybe I should try again... No promises.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: AnPro on December 19, 2018, 03:31:22 am
Hello, I need some help to beat the etereos... tips please... I have magnum black opps, laser rifles, toxic gun, heavy gun... incenindary amunition and granade, inc and normal... what is the more effective weapon??
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Starving Poet on December 19, 2018, 04:32:59 am
Laser rifles will ping them down.  Gold shields are really strong versus piercing and concussive.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 19, 2018, 11:18:35 am
What?  :o Wait a minute. I allways (played xcom since release every two or three years) though the squadlights were just there for player convenience/cosmetics and not actual beeing considered as light sources during night missions.
But if i understand you correctly in a scenario where two humans fight during the night the one with sqaudlights on would be spottet by the other one earlier because he is emitting light?

Yes, you are correct! Lights in X-Com are real and really illuminate your guys. (Which is why I almost turned them off in X-Com Files - they didn't play nice with human enemies and longer distances.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on December 19, 2018, 08:19:23 pm
BTW, i've recently "adapted" Biggieboy's recruitment office and large workshop (not treated as a hangar, maps slightly modified) for the mod, including research and ufopedia articles. Anyone interested? Recruitment office still needs the next version of OXCE to work as intended (for increased hiring times) though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Jimboman on December 20, 2018, 12:53:02 am
Others that fit the timeframe and have Wikipedia pictures:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-DT_amphibious_rifle — barely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPP-1_underwater_pistol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_P11 — has a nasty drawback — reloading requires a workshop :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speargun — would double as a sports equipment.
Last year I tried to make icon sets (for XCF or TFTD), but didn't like the results and then lost them with a hard drive. Now that I'm learning Blender, maybe I should try again... No promises.

Blimey, what have I started?  I only read about those guns in a Clive Cussler novel (The Pharoahs Secret) and thought it would be an idea.  Didn't know I'd open a can of worms about it!

Saying that...

As for how to get them in the game Solar, the article says they can be used above the water too, but they aren't really as efficient as a 'proper' assault weapon.  That would help with the 'underwater weapons being used above water' problem.  I'd still stick with M16s or BlackOps ARs for land missions, but switch to the ADS (or APS for the timeframe) under water.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Alex_D on December 20, 2018, 08:26:49 am
I found myself using the crossbow (and later the heavy crossbow) well into the game, even when Sonic guns became available.
The crossbows can 1-shot kill several of the enemies during underwater missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 22, 2018, 08:40:41 pm
Well, I plan to rework the Dart Rifle anyway, so I guess you'll be able to shoot standard darts with it (KINETIC, I suppose).

BTW, i've recently "adapted" Biggieboy's recruitment office and large workshop (not treated as a hangar, maps slightly modified) for the mod, including research and ufopedia articles. Anyone interested? Recruitment office still needs the next version of OXCE to work as intended (for increased hiring times) though.

You can always just upload it to the mod portal. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: bezimek on December 24, 2018, 01:10:48 pm
First you make a very good mod Solarius Scorch !!!
Second I have problem with your mod version 0.9.7.
- mission " Ooze Nest"
- openxcom:

[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: Invlid surface set 'OOZE.PCK' for armor 'STR_OOZE_ARMOR': not enough frames
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   0x8860d0 OpenXcom::CrossPlatform::stackTrace(void*)
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   0x889760 OpenXcom::CrossPlatform::crashDump(void*, std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > const&)
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   0x4015a0 exceptionLogger()
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   0xc20f98 MPEGaction::MPEGaction()
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   0x9ce960 OpenXcom::UnitSprite::drawRoutine8()
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   0x9c0210 OpenXcom::Map::drawUnit(OpenXcom::UnitSprite&, OpenXcom::Tile*, OpenXcom::Tile*, OpenXcom::Position, int, int, bool)
[24-12-2018_12-09-08]   [FATAL]   Unfortunately, no stack trace information is available
[24-12-2018_12-09-13]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: Invlid surface set 'OOZE.PCK' for armor 'STR_OOZE_ARMOR': not enough frames
More details here: C:\Users\Pawlak\Desktop\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\openxcom.log
If this error was unexpected, please report it to the developers.

Can you help me ? and merry Christmess!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 24, 2018, 02:59:32 pm
Hi Bezimek,
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, it's a known bug in extraSprites_XCOMFILES.rul:

Code: [Select]
  - type: OOZE.PCK
    subX: 32
    subY: 40
    width: 256
    height: 40
    files:
      0: Resources/Races_Compilation/OozeRace/OOZE.png

Height must be 80, not 40. You can easily fix it yourself in a text editor.
I should post a proper fix, but I plan to release an update soon anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: bezimek on December 24, 2018, 08:30:42 pm
Thank you for answer. I will wait for update. Keep up very good work with your mod. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: krautbernd on January 02, 2019, 11:24:55 pm
BTW, is the commendations mod compatible with xcomfiles or do you have any plans to incorporate medals or something along the line in upcoming versions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.7: Altered States
Post by: Meridian on January 02, 2019, 11:57:58 pm
BTW, is the commendations mod compatible with xcomfiles or do you have any plans to incorporate medals or something along the line in upcoming versions?

It's compatible in a way that it won't crash... but that's it.
Other than that, the Commendations mod is completely oblivious of any other mods (including XCF) and will ignore their content completely.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 05, 2019, 11:13:44 pm
Version 0.9.8 has been released.

0.9.8:
- Updated to the latest OXCE.
- Overhauled alien research tree.
- New mission: League Node.
- New items: Flashbang Grenade, 46mm Grenade (FLASH) (both by Finnik).
- New armor: Bulletproof Coat.
- Added 24 new faces.
- New enemy background.
- New Geoscape palette (by Chronocide Commando).
- Added paperdolls for male Arab civilians (based on Augur's work).
- More building material recovered from USOs and Reptoid ships.
- New Forest mapblocks (by Finnik).
- New Cave mapblocks (by Dioxine).
- New Village mapblocks.
- Buffed the Power Mace.
- Gravmodule Armor now changes color per terrain.
- Treaded tanks are faster.
- Drone bays now spawn 8 drones.
- New Salamandron graphics (by Drages).
- Cleaned up the Alien Base terrain.
- Minor improvements on the corporate building terrain.
- Fixed Viper range.
- Fixed a crash on Ooze and Abomination death.
- Fixed Pharaoh death animation.
- Fixed Metamorphic Mass move sound.
- Fixed weapons appearing on some cave creatures.
- Fixed some walking sounds on Cold Isle.
- Fixed the rotting script on Metamorphs (by Finnik).
- Fixed HWP recovery.
- Fixed Laser Sniper Rifle overkill.
- Fixed psi equipment manufacturing requirements.
- Fixed Double-Barreled and Thrasher autoshot range.
- Fixed impassable destroyed tiles in Cyberweb's portal installation.
- Fixed disappearing doors in Port.
- Minor fixes.



Updating from a campaign played on 0.9.7 or earlier:

If you don't have hybrid agents:
No action required, just carry on.

If you have hybrid agents:
Due to the changes in how paperdolls work (introduction of layers), you will likely get a crash when trying to view your hybrid agent's inventory (there's 75% chance for this to occur). How to solve this problem?
The easy way: sack all your hybrids and hire new ones.
The hard way: edit your save file to ensure that all hybrids have look: 0 (not 1, 2 or 3).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: DreamsofTrance on January 06, 2019, 01:52:35 am
I think there might be an issue with the new release.

When launching the game with a fresh OXCE installation and no other mods installed, I get this error:

Quote
[ERROR]   Const name 'RuleList.OpenXcom_XFiles' already used

Unfortunately, I'm too new to XCom modding to know if the issue is something on my end, but I'm pretty sure I've followed all the installation instructions properly.

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out that I just need to read instructions better.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 06, 2019, 02:25:59 am
EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out that I just need to read instructions better.

Good for you!
I wish more people could do that. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on January 06, 2019, 12:23:43 pm
Cool, new toys!

Version 0.9.8 has been released.

0.9.8:
- Overhauled alien research tree.
- New items: Flashbang Grenade, 46mm Grenade (FLASH) (both by Finnik).
- New armor: Bulletproof Coat.

These sound cool and worth a try, except for the Coat if you already have Cyber Armor. I hope having researched stuff from aliens during my save won't wreck this new research tree somehow.

Updating from a campaign played on 0.9.7 or earlier:

If you don't have hybrid agents:
No action required, just carry on.

If you have hybrid agents:
Due to the changes in how paperdolls work (introduction of layers), you will likely get a crash when trying to view your hybrid agent's inventory (there's 75% chance for this to occur). How to solve this problem?
The easy way: sack all your hybrids and hire new ones.
The hard way: edit your save file to ensure that all hybrids have look: 0 (not 1, 2 or 3).
[/quote]

So, as long as I haven't hired any of these there won't be problems then, right? I think once I play this I'll try to complete a month without recruiting them, then update and hire a few to see the changes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2019, 12:10:57 am
Cool, new toys!

These sound cool and worth a try, except for the Coat if you already have Cyber Armor.

And can you take the Cyber Armour on incognito missions? :P

I hope having researched stuff from aliens during my save won't wreck this new research tree somehow.

No, it's fine... You will only have an easier access to stuff (same as before).

So, as long as I haven't hired any of these there won't be problems then, right? I think once I play this I'll try to complete a month without recruiting them, then update and hire a few to see the changes.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

EDIT: 0.9.8a has been released.
- Fixed some alien bases not generating points.
- Fixed some paperdolls position.

EDIT: 0.9.8b has been released.
- Fixed the Delicious Cake (now it's a transformation item).

EDIT: 0.9.8c has been released.
- New craft: Snapping Turtle.
- Fixed a weird crash on the Obliterator.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on January 09, 2019, 06:11:46 pm
And can you take the Cyber Armour on incognito missions? :P
EDIT: 0.9.8c has been released.
- New craft: Snapping Turtle.
- Fixed a weird crash on the Obliterator.

Well nope, but by the time the alien invasion begins properly (where I stopped playing) these are not so deadly anymore. Also, what kind of vehicle is that Snapping Turtle? A special one for underwater/underground missions? I tried the last version but I couldn't find if this new vehicle has an Ufopaedia entry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2019, 06:49:12 pm
Well nope, but by the time the alien invasion begins properly (where I stopped playing) these are not so deadly anymore.

Well I can't see how they are less deadly, since you have pretty much the same armour as in the early game, but if you say so...

Also, what kind of vehicle is that Snapping Turtle? A special one for underwater/underground missions? I tried the last version but I couldn't find if this new vehicle has an Ufopaedia entry.

It's another Reptoid ship.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on January 09, 2019, 08:01:26 pm
V0.98c work fine !  :)   Thank you very much !
But I have two novice questions!
- did you change the game's home screen (colors/texture)? The one who proposes "new game/loading/options/...) !

- in the log there are non-lethal alarms. Can we fix this problem?
Multiple lines with the same text:
   [WARN]   Image C:\_GAMES\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\mods\XComFiles/Resources/FactionsPack/MenInBlack/bigob_MIB_POWER_ARMOR.png (from lodepng) have set incorrect transparent color index 255 instead of 0

Thanks !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on January 09, 2019, 08:56:33 pm
Well I can't see how they are less deadly, since you have pretty much the same armour as in the early game, but if you say so...

Well, by then you should have better guns, agents and possibly hybrids to help you deal with such annoying missions. The armored coat looks cool at least and has a RL movie reference.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on January 09, 2019, 09:08:40 pm
Sorry if this should be redundant, since i'm still on 0.9.6, but would you mind refactoring/resizing the "aliens attack financial district"-mission? I like big maps just as much as the next guy, but is it really a good idea to put two or three high-rise buildings in one map, seeing the impact even the one in the syndicate map has on game performance? At least on my system the map more or less constantly lags while scrolling or when movement or shooting of any kind is going on. Might i suggest either lowering the number of potential buildings, the height of said buildings or overall map size?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2019, 09:20:13 pm
V0.98c work fine !  :)   Thank you very much ![/color]

Good!

- did you change the game's home screen (colors/texture)? The one who proposes "new game/loading/options/...) ![/color]

I included an experimental Geoscape palette just to try it out... It might be that.

- in the log there are non-lethal alarms. Can we fix this problem?
Multiple lines with the same text:
   [WARN]   Image C:\_GAMES\OpenXcom_XFiles\user\mods\XComFiles/Resources/FactionsPack/MenInBlack/bigob_MIB_POWER_ARMOR.png (from lodepng) have set incorrect transparent color index 255 instead of 0

Thanks, fixed.

Well, by then you should have better guns, agents and possibly hybrids to help you deal with such annoying missions. The armored coat looks cool at least and has a RL movie reference.

Well, it's true. Still, there was no advanced infiltration armour, so I made one. (okay okay, Dioxine made most of it lol)

Sorry if this should be redundant, since i'm still on 0.9.6, but would you mind refactoring/resizing the "aliens attack financial district"-mission? I like big maps just as much as the next guy, but is it really a good idea to put two or three high-rise buildings in one map, seeing the impact even the one in the syndicate map has on game performance? At least on my system the map more or less constantly lags while scrolling or when movement or shooting of any kind is going on. Might i suggest either lowering the number of potential buildings, the height of said buildings or overall map size?

In my experience they are very soon reduced to Swiss cheese, but I am open to opinions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on January 09, 2019, 09:52:48 pm
I included an experimental Geoscape palette just to try it out... It might be that.
Ok !

(https://www.mediafire.com/?cw58nbbhr7w5wki)
Edit by Meridian: made the images smaller
(https://www.mediafire.com/?wx1v857u7i0uvrz)

I will remove the links from the screens tomorrow....


Thanks, fixed.
Thanks at you !  :)   :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 09, 2019, 09:58:04 pm
No, that's seriously not how it's suppose to look... :o
Looks fine on my side. Must be some problem on your PC.

(Also no need to remove the pics, they're relevant and not too big)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Meridian on January 09, 2019, 10:05:28 pm
(https://www.mediafire.com/?cw58nbbhr7w5wki)

You didn't upgrade properly... this is caused by outdated xcom1 ruleset, more specifically interfaces.rul
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on January 10, 2019, 12:05:02 am
You didn't upgrade properly... this is caused by outdated xcom1 ruleset, more specifically interfaces.rul
You're very good at it!  :) :)
The installation was correct... at first!
But by adding French language files I took an old "interface.rul" file in \standard\xcom1 folder !
The line was missing: "backgroundImage: BACK01.SCR" !
I'll have to be careful with the following updates!    8)

Sorry for the inconvenience!  :-[
Big thanks at you two !  :) :)
Now work fine !

Translated by https://www.deepl.com/translator


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 14, 2019, 03:17:03 pm
New version 0.9.8d released.

0.9.8d:
- New Cydonia stage: Chryssalid Hives.
- New mission: Cybermines.
- New tank types (tritanium rockets).
- New Ufopaedia articles.
- Some enemies change stats underwater.
- Retooled the Power Suit and the Flying Suit.
- Changed prerequisites for the Alien Electronics.
- Light Fighters now yield some Alien Alloys.
- Fixed some palettes (by Meridian).
- Fixed The Root of All Evil mission appearing more than once.
- Fixed drone resistance to E-115 damage.
- Fixed Power Suit sprite.
- Text positioning fixes.

It's a bit too big for a minor "patch", but too small for 0.9.9... So I guess I'm falling into Piratez nomenclature slowly. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Abyss on January 14, 2019, 07:01:10 pm
New version 0.9.8d released.
It's a bit too big for a minor "patch", but too small for 0.9.9... So I guess I'm falling into Piratez nomenclature slowly. :P

The more I play the less I believe it's all made by independent developers. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HinterDemGlas on January 15, 2019, 02:17:55 am
Another update already? Changes in the cloudy olymp of the END GAME that I haven't even gotten close to yet?

Thank you! Will I need to edit my save to get the Cybemines Mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Niewiem on January 15, 2019, 08:38:54 am
No need to edit anything unless clearly stated otherwise - it will just have a chance of appearing from next month if conditions for it are fullfiled
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 17, 2019, 03:43:16 pm
New version 0.9.8e released.

- Updated to the latest OXCE.
- Fixed the Engineer interrogation.
- Fixed some issues with the Tritanium Rockets.
- Fixed Female Farmer point value.
- Fixed carrying capacity on Durathread Gear.
- Minor fixes.

This is a critical update, as it fixes the Alien Engineers. (You want alien tech, don't you?)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on January 17, 2019, 04:52:13 pm
New version 0.9.8e released.
Thank you very much !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Nord on January 18, 2019, 07:26:23 am
Two more sprites.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Abyss on January 18, 2019, 09:29:27 am
What if you could train robots in the empty hangar? Just the suggestion.  ???
They are quite bulky but let's say there's a lot of the spare space.
It may need an engeneer or a scientist allocated too, but there's still an operator in the barracks.

UPD The last OXCE is laggy, I'd suggest take previous version before code is revised.
Nevertheless you are a bit hie about the latest OXCE implementation. There should be tests done before.

UPD2
X-COM: UNIT tech previously researched appeared in the lab again

UPD3
Cyberweb fortress is awesome
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: mrbiasha on January 18, 2019, 02:36:28 pm
It's a bit too big for a minor "patch", but too small for 0.9.9... So I guess I'm falling into Piratez nomenclature slowly. :P

Is it really avoidable with similar scope of modding?  :D

Since Dioxine made quite a number of updates since I last tried Piratez, I decided to try it out again and found myself tied in a prolonged campaign, which really prevents me from trying out your latest late game updates. It is hard to have so many good mods around! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Meridian on January 18, 2019, 03:13:19 pm
UPD The last OXCE is laggy, I'd suggest take previous version before code is revised.

Can you be more specific?
What/where is laggy?

Is it really avoidable with similar scope of modding?  :D

Yes, they should just use 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: yergnoor on January 18, 2019, 05:11:25 pm
Can you be more specific?
What/where is laggy?
Maybe because in the main theme of OXCE there was no announcement of the update from January 15, 2019? Personally, I just found out that the download links have changed, but I haven’t found the update history for this version, although I reviewed the topic.
P.S. Since I play on Android, the exe that is attached to the mode has to be discarded, and OXCE is updated via apk.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Meridian on January 18, 2019, 05:15:07 pm
Maybe because in the main theme of OXCE there was no announcement of the update from January 15, 2019? Personally, I just found out that the download links have changed, but I haven’t found the update history for this version, although I reviewed the topic.
P.S. Since I play on Android, the exe that is attached to the mode has to be discarded, and OXCE is updated via apk.

I fail to see what that has to do with my question.

I was asking if someone can tell me what in the new OXCE is laggy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on January 18, 2019, 08:56:32 pm
I was asking if someone can tell me what in the new OXCE is laggy.

I'm not sure if laggy is the right description, but I noted right away on the battlescape that units appear to move a bit slower (almost like smoother?). I fixed the "problem" by increasing the speed of the animation on the options menu.
I don't know if others have noted something else.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on January 18, 2019, 11:50:28 pm
I'm not sure if laggy is the right description, but I noted right away on the battlescape that units appear to move a bit slower (almost like smoother?).
5.2_2019-01-16
I don't have that kind of problem!  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Abyss on January 19, 2019, 02:18:35 pm
Can you be more specific?
What/where is laggy?

- the battlescape units, both mine and enemy, are moving with a significant lose in the speed. That doesn't fully cure with ajusting the speed via the sliders in the options menu.
- the HWP in the battle moves antsy with a little delay beforу each next square;
- the projectile speed is much slower for the same slider position in the options menu;
- the global pop-ups are emerging with 1 -1,5 sec animation, versus the 0,2 sec animation previously;
- in some maps with 50+ enemies there were little lags aleady. But now they are significant - all the same symptoms + 50-100% time consuming enemy turn.

I already had it mentioned regarding the X-Piratez issue. J5 was perfect in terms of processability, HWP's didn't affect the overall speed. J7 added the lags into the battlescape  regarding the HWP's in the battle and giant maps. In J9 I observed the same problems, so decided to avoid certain missions (Mystic Tower) and overall HWP's employment.

Note that I play on ultrabook, not the desktop, but still it has the SSD, nice processor and separate videocard.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Meridian on January 19, 2019, 02:43:46 pm
- the global pop-ups are emerging with 1 -1,5 sec animation, versus the 0,2 sec animation previously;

Looks like you have turned on the slow-mode... hotkey F8.

Try pressing F8 a few times, if it helps... there are three modes: normal, slow (5x slower), super-slow (15x slower)... I guess you pressed F8 and changed to Slow.

PS: also please attach your options.cfg file, so we can see your settings
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Abyss on January 19, 2019, 02:56:12 pm
Looks like you have turned on the slow-mode... hotkey F8.
PS: also please attach your options.cfg file, so we can see your settings

Attached
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: justaround on January 20, 2019, 04:54:26 pm
Just a heads up: Openxcom_xfiles_0.9.8e.zip does not seem to have OpenXcomExPlus.exe inside while the X-Com_Files_readme.txt in the archive mentions it. One of those two things should likely be fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 20, 2019, 10:25:28 pm
Two more sprites.

Fantastic work, Nord.
I'm taking the Megaworm on the spot. I'd take the Muckstar too, but do you have a live version?

What if you could train robots in the empty hangar? Just the suggestion.  ???

You can't specify which soldier types can train.

Yes, they should just use 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc.

I fully agree. In fact, I'd like to go with dates, and probably will. But first I want to reach 1.0, which has very specific goals, designated years ago...

Just a heads up: Openxcom_xfiles_0.9.8e.zip does not seem to have OpenXcomExPlus.exe inside while the X-Com_Files_readme.txt in the archive mentions it. One of those two things should likely be fixed.

Ther's OpenXcomEx.exe, just like the previous releases. OXCE and OXCE+ were merged a long time ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: justaround on January 20, 2019, 11:38:43 pm
Ther's OpenXcomEx.exe, just like the previous releases. OXCE and OXCE+ were merged a long time ago.
Yup, which is why I point out that OpenXcomExPlus.exe is still mentioned in readme and probably something should be corrected here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 21, 2019, 12:39:48 am
Yup, which is why I point out that OpenXcomExPlus.exe is still mentioned in readme and probably something should be corrected here.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Nord on January 21, 2019, 06:38:23 am
Fantastic work, Nord.
I'm taking the Megaworm on the spot. I'd take the Muckstar too, but do you have a live version?
Out of my pc now, but i've posted live and inventory pics some time ago. 8-10 pages up. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 21, 2019, 01:15:52 pm
Out of my pc now, but i've posted live and inventory pics some time ago. 8-10 pages up. :)

Right, but I couldn't find it... Found it finally. :)
Thanks, I'll review and check.
Title: Flashbangs?
Post by: null-painter on January 25, 2019, 04:44:24 am
I was very excited to see the flashbang grenade, but I'm not sure I understand the usage. I saw the 40 stun and bought several, and was happy to see they are the "primeless" style, too - nice and easy to use!

But, I peppered some enemies (even "quad" enemies) with several without obvious effect. Then I looked in "stats for nerds":

0% armor effectiveness (whoa, really powerful)
0% radius effectiveness (hmm, not sure what this means )
10% stun damage multiplier (oh, so actually does 4 stun damage?)

I'm not sure I have the right interpretation of the stats, but at any rate I'm not sure how to use them effectively.

Thanks for all your awesome work!  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 26, 2019, 10:58:00 pm
Thanks, Null!
Flashbangs act on all units in range, they decrease Time Units and all accuracies for a whole turn.
Stats for Nerds are no good for this particular item, since it relies on scripts (which are invisible to the SfN).
As you correctly pointed out, armour does not inherently protect from this effect, but some armours have some degree of resistance to being blinded (also done via scripts, so invisible to the player); these are armours which provide some form of sensual protection, starting with a simple helmet (which gives you 10% chance to be unaffected). Also, some life forms are immune, as they don't have eyes nor ears (for example Celatids).

EDIT: Version 0.9.8f has been released.

- New Staff Input (by Mumble).
- New weapon: Shogg Stingrifle.
- Improved Muckstar and Megaworm pictures (by Nord).
- Added and improved some natural weapons graphics.
- Added better starting positions to Shogg villages and Mummy abodes.
- Reworked Cruise Liner loot.
- Overhauled mission scripts to increase the odds to get some rare but necessary missions.
- Moved the Geoscape palette to a separate mod.
- Most Shogg equipment can now be bought from the Scorpion King.
- Fixed Hovertank Rocket Launcher turret.
- Fixed recovery dividers for Aqua-Plastics and Terramite.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Fiskun1 on January 30, 2019, 05:03:01 pm
When will the changes in
[classified]: 1%
[classified]: 0%?
I really wonder what will be there!
 ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 30, 2019, 11:15:39 pm
When will the changes in
[classified]: 1%
[classified]: 0%?
I really wonder what will be there!
 ;)

1%: Moon Nazis. I don't know when I'll get to it, it's not a priority now.
0%: Honestly I can't remember what exactly it is. There are several candidates.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Fiskun1 on January 31, 2019, 09:21:35 am
I satisfied my curiosity, thank!
And what are the priorities now in the development of The X-Com Files ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 31, 2019, 09:57:01 am
 Reptoids. There are many unique ideas I have for them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Fiskun1 on January 31, 2019, 10:54:50 am
It is interesting.
You have so many ideas that I don’t know if I can ever play the final version.

Yes, many thanks to the person who so quickly translates your wonderful mod into Russian!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 05, 2019, 07:26:20 pm
It is interesting.
You have so many ideas that I don’t know if I can ever play the final version.

Yes, many thanks to the person who so quickly translates your wonderful mod into Russian!

There is a big team now! But the first and probably most important contributor was Kammerer.
Thanks, Kammerer!


EDIT: 0.9.8g is released.

- Decreased the frequency of retaliation missions.
- Added paperdoll for: female Arab, City Girl, gender-specific winter outfits (all by Nord).
- Improved paperdolls for Bikini Babe, Female Farmer, Black Male Civilian, Male Hunter, Male Farmer (all by Nord).
- Improved Giant Rat walking animation (by Alex D).
- Extra retaliations start later.

EDIT: 0.9.8g2 is released.
Fixed a crash on the Farmer entry. If you don't want to update everything, just replace the file attached here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: hellrazor on February 10, 2019, 03:20:40 pm
Your lack of Mod only version which is without executeable is not supportive for linux users.
Can you provide a Mod only version without executable?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: yergnoor on February 10, 2019, 05:05:14 pm
Can you provide a Mod only version without executable?
I support.
Also, users of OXCE for Android experience inconvenience, who have to release each new version of X-Files from everything superfluous and extract only the pure mod. I even wrote a special instruction on the Russian-language forum OpenXcom for Android, how to extract X-Files and X-Piratez mods for Android games. However, regularly have to personally explain all the details of newcomers.
Considering the ability of new versions of OXCE (on any devices) to see mods packed in zip archives, it would be much more convenient to download one such archive. Then there would be no need for unpacking at all, it was enough to put the X-Files.zip archive in the mods folder. I checked, the mod on Android in this case works fine. The inconvenience is only in the need to first unpack and then re-pack in a zip.
P.S. Thank you so much from me and all the Russian players for this interesting mod!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 10, 2019, 05:48:21 pm
Your lack of Mod only version which is without executeable is not supportive for linux users.
Can you provide a Mod only version without executable?

What is a "mod only" version? I really don't understand.
You mean without the exe, standard and common? Can't you just delete that?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Stoddard on February 10, 2019, 06:33:02 pm
What is a "mod only" version? I really don't understand.
You mean without the exe, standard and common? Can't you just delete that?

I think that's the idea. .exe is useless on linux/android and common/standard can interfere with what's already installed. Basically on Android you have to take only the mod directory and drop it into /sdcard/whatever/openxcom/mods  on every mod update. When you don't have a PC to repack it, it gets tedious and error-prone.


One solution for this would be integrating mod.io so that the mods are downloaded ingame, like OpenTTD did it (last time I played it).

I'm undecided on this. It will be helpful for the end-users somewhat, but on the other hand will tie it all to a single service. Not to say that just dropping mods into user/mods/ will cease to work but still.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 11, 2019, 12:17:10 pm
Thanks, Stoddard.
I am not prepared to maintain two versions of the mod; not because I think playing this sort of game is lunacy (though I certainly do), but simply because it would be too much of a chore. But I have an alternative suggestion: you can get the mod (just the mod) from GitHub. I suppose it should work just fine for you, if you don't mind having a beta version. Especially with OXCE accepting zipped mods now, or at least soon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: niculinux on February 11, 2019, 12:31:03 pm
I think that's the idea. .exe is useless on linux/android and common/standard can interfere with what's already installed. Basically on Android you have to take only the mod directory and drop it into /sdcard/whatever/openxcom/mods  on every mod update. When you don't have a PC to repack it, it gets tedious and error-prone.


One solution for this would be integrating mod.io so that the mods are downloaded ingame, like OpenTTD did it (last time I played it).

I'm undecided on this. It will be helpful for the end-users somewhat, but on the other hand will tie it all to a single service. Not to say that just dropping mods into user/mods/ will cease to work but still.

i am a complete ignorant, but applying the KISS principle (https://www.garron.me/en/linux/kiss-simplicity-arch-linux-review.html) would be great :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: tkzv on February 11, 2019, 04:05:45 pm
Thanks, Stoddard.
I am not prepared to maintain two versions of the mod; not because I think playing this sort of game is lunacy (though I certainly do), but simply because it would be too much of a chore. But I have an alternative suggestion: you can get the mod (just the mod) from GitHub. I suppose it should work just fine for you, if you don't mind having a beta version. Especially with OXCE accepting zipped mods now, or at least soon.
If you post the hashes for releases, it's possible to download them with Git.

But I think that extracting the "mod" directory from a zip archive is easier. Although slower in MC.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 11, 2019, 09:49:42 pm
Well I guess it won't hurt to post the link:
https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles
Of course it's definitely a beta, but I generally don't put there stuff which obviously doesn't work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: tkzv on February 11, 2019, 10:42:54 pm
Some git commands for those, who want to use it, but don't know anything about it:

To download version 0.9.8g2:
1. Create a folder:
Code: [Select]
mkdir ~/xcf
cd ~/xcf
2. Download the whole repository:
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles(Currently, it's 286 megabytes, since it effectively downloads all previous versions.)
3. Switch to revision 38ded9ba133dcb97bedf530e50b04b8037c6c53e (closest to 0.9.8g2):
Code: [Select]
git checkout 38ded9ba133dcb97bedf530e50b04b8037c6c53eRevision hashes can be shortened as long as they stay unique, e.g. to "38de".

Other useful commands:
Switch to the latest downloaded commit:
Code: [Select]
git checkout origin/HEAD
Download changes from the server:
Code: [Select]
git pull(you need to switch to the latest commit for that)
or
Code: [Select]
git pull origin HEAD(I think this one would work anywhere)

See the list of changes up to the current commit:
Code: [Select]
git logIn Linux it displays output in "less" pager. Use arrows and PgUp/PgDn to navigate, "/" or "?" then "n" and "N" to search, "q" to quit.

I am not very familiar with git myself, so corrections are welcome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Stoddard on February 11, 2019, 11:28:28 pm
But I have an alternative suggestion: you can get the mod (just the mod) from GitHub. I suppose it should work just fine for you, if you don't mind having a beta version. Especially with OXCE accepting zipped mods now, or at least soon.

Well, that's how it's usually done - put it on github, someone configures a jenkins job or two that watch github, fetch the stuff, repack it or do anything else with it, upload the result wherever, etc. Post notes in discord, on the forum, everything can be automated.

One question is how to know what is a release and what isn't - git tags are usually used for this.

Not at all different from how oxce builds are done.


Edit: like this: https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/XComFiles (https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/XComFiles)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 12, 2019, 10:09:56 am
You can just click "save as zip" and use it as any other packed mod... No need for all that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: yergnoor on February 12, 2019, 12:06:21 pm
You can just click "save as zip" and use it as any other packed mod.
I confirm. I downloaded the XComFiles-master.zip archive, weighing 121.89 megabytes. When I moved it to the /openxcom/mods/ folder, OXCE for Android accepted it as an X-Files mod and safely launched the game with it. Thank you, this is much more convenient than extracting the mod itself from a common archive containing an exe file, unnecessary on Android. And much faster, unpacking the archive on my slow device takes considerable time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Stoddard on February 12, 2019, 05:08:48 pm
I confirm. I downloaded the XComFiles-master.zip archive, weighing 121.89 megabytes. When I moved it to the /openxcom/mods/ folder, OXCE for Android accepted it as an X-Files mod and safely launched the game with it. Thank you, this is much more convenient than extracting the mod itself from a common archive containing an exe file, unnecessary on Android. And much faster, unpacking the archive on my slow device takes considerable time.

Don't forget that

A) directories override .zips - if there's a directory with older version and a .zip with newer, the results would be interesting.

B) if there is more than two instances of a mod - in a dir and in a .zip - OXCE will not start.

 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: yergnoor on February 12, 2019, 06:09:25 pm
Stoddard, Thank you for reminding. However, it seemed obvious to me that you can use only one copy of each mod at a time. Although I understand that someone may forget to delete the old version. However, if you update X-Files with this method, then the archive name (given to it when downloading) will be the same - “XComFiles-master.zip”. And this means that when you try to place a second one along the same, the system will give a warning. In Android, you cannot have two files with the same name in the same directory. There will be extra insurance against oversight.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Stoddard on February 12, 2019, 06:24:15 pm
Stoddard, Thank you for reminding. However, it seemed obvious to me that you can use only one copy of each mod at a time. Although I understand that someone may forget to delete the old version. However, if you update X-Files with this method, then the archive name (given to it when downloading) will be the same - “XComFiles-master.zip”. And this means that when you try to place a second one along the same, the system will give a warning. In Android, you cannot have two files with the same name in the same directory. There will be extra insurance against oversight.

Problem is that OXCE doesn't care about zip file names. All what identifies a mod is its id in metadata.yml. Warnings will be overlooked, zips will be downloaded straight to mods dir with (1) (2) etc in their names, old directories will be forgotten in place, you get the idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: yergnoor on February 12, 2019, 08:54:33 pm
Problem is that OXCE doesn't care about zip file names. All what identifies a mod is its id in metadata.yml. Warnings will be overlooked, zips will be downloaded straight to mods dir with (1) (2) etc in their names, old directories will be forgotten in place, you get the idea.
This is already a matter of gamer care. But the problem for OXCE for Android users is still not new. And before the introduction of reading mods from zip, players had to remove old versions of mods before unpacking new ones. And before there was the danger of mixing files from different versions. Yes, X-Files and X-Piratez for PC come in a complete set of all folders and files (with the exception of UFO data), which helps to avoid mixing versions of PC users. But Android always had to cope with these difficulties on its own. So, I don’t think that adding mods to a zip will somehow worsen the situation. Downloading on Android usually goes to the Downloads folder, you have to move the downloaded mods to the mods folder yourself (this is not an automatic update), this is where the user should notice the duplication if it happens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: hubaj on February 13, 2019, 02:10:33 pm
Can I ask what are you guys talking about with playing XCF on android? I am playing it on android as well and I never had any issues. I just copied the mod folder from regular version to the appropriate folder on android version of OXCE and it seems to work just fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on February 20, 2019, 07:27:57 pm
I have some question regarding mass driver/gauss weapons:

I recently did the David Vincent mission, which netted me a mass-driver pistol. Unfortunately i can't research it (nor mass driver weapons in general) until i research gauss weapons - is this intended? As far as i can tell you only get gauss weapons from Reptoids, and Gauss weapons are - for all intents and purposes - superior to mass driver weapons in every way safe for weight (akin to lasers<->blasters).

What's the point of tying the mass driver weapon prerequesite to gauss weapons?  For that matter, why can we research Gauss weapons straight away upon recovery without any prerequesites? This seems kind of backwards from how it should be.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2019, 12:16:29 pm
Normally you can only get mass drivers after examining gauss weapons. The MiB do carry them, but it's more of an exception.
I honestly don't know how to rearrange the tech tree without making it awfully complicated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on February 21, 2019, 04:24:08 pm
Normally you can only get mass drivers after examining gauss weapons. The MiB do carry them, but it's more of an exception.
I honestly don't know how to rearrange the tech tree without making it awfully complicated.
As far as i can tell it's awfully complicated already, since you need to research gauss weapons to research mass drivers to research...gauss weapons? It just seems to me that is an awfully roundabout way to cut players off from technology they should have no trouble accessing upon recovering any of the mass driver weapons.

I know playstyles vary, but at this point in the game i have unlocked all laboratory types and access to fusion and plasma weapons, but i can not research mass drivers because i have not acquired any of the clearly superior weapons that mass drivers are supposed to be reverse engineered from. This is compounded by the fact that gauss weapons can be researched from scratch upon recovery (no lab requirements) and used, but mass drivers can't. Mass drivers also require STR_POWER_SOURCE_MINIATURIZATION to be researched in addition to STR_MASS_DRIVER_WEAPONS_PREREQUISITE - why isn't that part of the prerequisite to begin with?

My suggestion would be to drop STR_MASS_DRIVER_WEAPONS_PREREQUISITE alltogether, make mass driver weapons researchable upon recovery and unlock mass drivers independently upon researching gauss weapons. Otherwise drop mass drivers from MIB loot tables.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2019, 05:36:20 pm
In FMP, these weapons also had two tiers and they were simple increments in power: first the weaker version, then the stronger one. It was okay, but kinda dull.
I could drop these from MiBs, but... they also use all sorts of other weapons you shouldn't know at the point where you protect D. Vincent: lasers, blasters, plasma, alien grenades... I realize they don't have their paths as complex as the gauss tree, with retroengineering and all, but I feel we would have to address them as well.
The best I can do is to ensure make captured Mass Drivers researchable so at least you could use them. But I need to move VERY carefully here, because the branches of this tree are quite prone to breaking.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on February 21, 2019, 06:07:08 pm
In FMP, these weapons also had two tiers and they were simple increments in power: first the weaker version, then the stronger one. It was okay, but kinda dull.
I could drop these from MiBs, but... they also use all sorts of other weapons you shouldn't know at the point where you protect D. Vincent: lasers, blasters, plasma, alien grenades... I realize they don't have their paths as complex as the gauss tree, with retroengineering and all, but I feel we would have to address them as well.
The best I can do is to ensure make captured Mass Drivers researchable so at least you could use them. But I need to move VERY carefully here, because the branches of this tree are quite prone to breaking.

Making recovered weapons researchable would probably make this fit in better, but i still think the tree as a whole is messy, with gauss weapons leading to mass drivers leading to gauss weapons again.

Why not tie recovered mass driver/Gauss weapons to the mass driver prerequesite and power source&power source miniaturization to mass drivers?

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_MASS_DRIVER_WEAPONS_PREREQUISITE
    cost: 0
    points: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_GAUSS_PISTOL
      - STR_GAUSS_RIFLE
      - STR_HEAVY_GAUSS
      - STR_GAUSS_SNIPER_RIFLE
      - STR_MASS_DRIVER_PISTOL
      - STR_MASS_DRIVER_RIFLE
      - STR_HEAVY_MASS_DRIVER
      - STR_MASS_DRIVER_SNIPER_RIFLE

  - name: STR_MASS_DRIVER_WEAPONS
    requiresBaseFunc: [IMPLAB]
    cost: 300
    points: 200
    dependencies:
      - STR_UFO_POWER_SOURCE
      - STR_POWER_SOURCE_MINIATURIZATION
      - STR_MASS_DRIVER_WEAPONS_PREREQUISITE

That way players who recover mass drivers later in the game can actually research the mass driver technology tree when they should be able to.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2019, 06:40:10 pm
The answer is simple: to make this branch different from other branches. I just want it to work in some other way for variety; but I acknowledge some more polish is desired.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: DIhlo on February 21, 2019, 08:09:29 pm
The answer is simple: to make this branch different from other branches. I just want it to work in some other way for variety; but I acknowledge some more polish is desired.
I'm sorry for butting in, and I haven't personally reached that point in the tech tree myself, but it seems the issue is this: To research weaker guns you need to get and research stronger guns( ...which then lead back to stronger guns you already have?). That seems less a quirk and more a logic and/or common sense error to me, as a player.

Also I'm watching a streamer going through XCF right now, and there seems to be either an error or unclear info on difference between napalm and incendiary grenades. If you judge those by ufopedia articles and stats, then incendiaries are better while given to the player first. They have higher damage and larger blast radius. BUT if you hold alt in inventory screen in-mission napalm shows MORE damage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on February 21, 2019, 08:54:34 pm
I'm sorry for butting in, and I haven't personally reached that point in the tech tree myself, but it seems the issue is this: To research weaker guns you need to get and research stronger guns( ...which then lead back to stronger guns you already have?). That seems less a quirk and more a logic and/or common sense error to me, as a player.
You need to reasearch recovered gauss weapons (i.e. gauss pistol/rifle...) to be able to research mass drivers to be able to research gauss weapons (i.e. the research topic) to enable production of gauss weapons. I think i understand how Solraius wants this to work, and it i'm all aboard as far as locking production of Gauss weapons is concerned.

The problem i have with the current research tree is that you can't research recovered mass driver weapons (which are reverse engineered from gauss weapons), but you can research recovered gauss weapons. I think i'm going to change this in my modded game by adding 'reverse engineer mass driver X' / 'design mass driver X' research topics (using lookups, since afaik you can't unlock a research topic that requires an item without actually having that item in store).

Also I'm watching a streamer going through XCF right now, and there seems to be either an error or unclear info on difference between napalm and incendiary grenades. If you judge those by ufopedia articles and stats, then incendiaries are better while given to the player first. They have higher damage and larger blast radius. BUT if you hold alt in inventory screen in-mission napalm shows MORE damage.
IIRC the incendiary grenade uses the UFO damage formula (0-200%) while the napalm grenade uses TFTD's damage formula (50-150%).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2019, 09:34:44 pm
I think i'm going to change this in my modded game by adding 'reverse engineer mass driver X' / 'design mass driver X' research topics (using lookups, since afaik you can't unlock a research topic that requires an item without actually having that item in store).

Since I want to revisit this anyway, would you mind sharing this mod?

IIRC the incendiary grenade uses the UFO damage formula (0-200%) while the napalm grenade uses TFTD's damage formula (50-150%).

Not really, the thing is that incendiary grenades deal normal fire damage (5-10), while napalm deals a lot more.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on February 21, 2019, 09:52:04 pm
Since I want to revisit this anyway, would you mind sharing this mod?
Sure, but it's just going to be anything special - just some additional research topics, additional needItem entries and a changed mass_driver_prerequisites. No new ufopedia entries or anything.

BTW, i also have more 'in depth' (as in with ufopedia entry, tied to promotion, etc.) mod for the recruitment office and large workshop, among other things - want me to upload those too?

Not really, the thing is that incendiary grenades deal normal fire damage (5-10), while napalm deals a lot more.
My bad, i didn't take the different damage types into account. Incendiary is handled different from other types. But RandomType=2 is 50%-150% according to the ruleset reference.

EDIT:
See attachement for modified research topics. Still not happy with this since you'll probably end up with redundant research topics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: DIhlo on February 22, 2019, 06:38:34 am
Not really, the thing is that incendiary grenades deal normal fire damage (5-10), while napalm deals a lot more.

It's probably better to make some kind of indication of that in-game. Because, if you look at ufopedia, now its like this: Incendiary grenade: Incendiary damage 60, radius -1 (and as you get them first you know after using them it's actually 5); Napalm grenade: Incendiary damage 40, radius 3. I can understand if those numbers can't be changed due to engine calculations or what not, but maybe add to the end of the description something like: Inceniary grenade - (5-10 fire damage), napalm grenade - (20-60 fire damage). So that people who only use in-game info can judge it's utility, without extensive testing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 22, 2019, 11:34:25 am
Sure, but it's just going to be anything special - just some additional research topics, additional needItem entries and a changed mass_driver_prerequisites. No new ufopedia entries or anything.

It's OK, small things are often good things. I'm not looking forward to any big changes here... :)

BTW, i also have more 'in depth' (as in with ufopedia entry, tied to promotion, etc.) mod for the recruitment office and large workshop, among other things - want me to upload those too?

The large workshop, maybe. But I can't see the point of a recruitment office - we're not launching Operation Overlord here.

My bad, i didn't take the different damage types into account. Incendiary is handled different from other types. But RandomType=2 is 50%-150% according to the ruleset reference.

Yeah, exactly.

EDIT:
See attachement for modified research topics. Still not happy with this since you'll probably end up with redundant research topics.

OK, I will try to have a look this weekend. Thanks!

It's probably better to make some kind of indication of that in-game. Because, if you look at ufopedia, now its like this: Incendiary grenade: Incendiary damage 60, radius -1 (and as you get them first you know after using them it's actually 5); Napalm grenade: Incendiary damage 40, radius 3. I can understand if those numbers can't be changed due to engine calculations or what not, but maybe add to the end of the description something like: Inceniary grenade - (5-10 fire damage), napalm grenade - (20-60 fire damage). So that people who only use in-game info can judge it's utility, without extensive testing.

Not sure how to do this without going savant on the numbers. That's why I thought the description was clear enough... What exactly is missing from it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: nicedayright on February 22, 2019, 09:25:38 pm
Presented without comment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2019, 02:50:49 pm
Presented without comment.

Lol, time to camp I guess.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on February 24, 2019, 06:07:59 pm
Presented without comment.
Also presented without comment (though Solarius might want to have a look at this).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: niculinux on March 05, 2019, 05:28:15 pm
Taken from here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6943.msg110784.html#msg110784)

Yes, Dagon. As I understood the XCF, each cult has its own global zone of influence and preferred set of weapons. EXALT is mostly the Americas and thus US weapons. Black Lotus is East Asian, and they use an array of mostly Chinese/Japanese weaponry. Red Dawn is East Europe/Eurasian Russia, with Soviet weapons. Finally the Church of Dagon is Western-Central Europe/Africa/Middle-East, with said regions weapons. Hence the Galil, MG3 would fall on the later faction.[...]

I wonder if it may be planned a fifth faction, so that every contitent has its own "representative": more specifically i had in mind australia/australasia. Any future chance?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 06, 2019, 10:54:56 am
Australia is deadly enough as it is. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: niculinux on March 06, 2019, 03:12:04 pm
Australia is deadly enough as it is. :P

Or create another to "separate" Africa and Europe  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on March 06, 2019, 04:19:29 pm
Also presented without comment (though Solarius might want to have a look at this).

Hate to bump the thread for this, but is this intended?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Meridian on March 06, 2019, 04:37:20 pm
Hate to bump the thread for this, but is this intended?

Maybe if you write some description?
I saw the original post and decided to just ignore it, because it didn't say anything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on March 06, 2019, 05:45:29 pm
I assumed Solarius would have a look, seeing how he also replied to the original post, which mine was a direct reply to. Apparently common pick axes are able to dig through UFO hulls.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 06, 2019, 10:10:06 pm
Yeah, I haven't commented because I didn't think it was a complaint. :P
I... guess it's possible, if your agent is stupidly strong.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on March 06, 2019, 10:33:27 pm
I... guess it's possible, if your agent is stupidly strong.
They don't need to be though. The guy with 47 strength can reliably break interior walls in 3-4 swings, and the one with 60 strength breaks outer walls in 5-10.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 06, 2019, 10:38:07 pm
They don't need to be though. The guy with 47 strength can reliably break interior walls in 3-4 swings, and the one with 60 strength breaks outer walls in 5-10.

Outer walls have armour 100 (inner walls, mostly 80). The pickaxe does 20+ 1/2 Strength damage, but since it's an anti-terrain weapon, it deals +50% to tiles. The effect is... rather devastating on a good roll.
Is this a problem? I am not sure.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on March 06, 2019, 11:04:58 pm
It's just that i was under the impression that the fusion torch was the tool of choice to breach UFO hulls.

Any reason i should use it over the pickaxe, which is cheaper, lighter, smaller, available earlier and without specialized research and doesn't require any ammunition? Sure, it might not be quite as reliable, but once you train up your agents it's more than capable of doing the job.

Kind of odd that you need a blaster bomb or a pick axe to breach otherwise indestructible UFO hulls.

I guess it's not a problem if you don't actively use it to breach UFOs, but knowing that you can is kind of immersion breaking (at least for me, as always ymmv).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 07, 2019, 08:59:45 pm
Well... Yes, but what can I do? Double the UFO hull values?
Hell, maybe I should.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 07, 2019, 11:45:37 pm
As for breaching UFOs, and walls or roofs in general. I wonder if somebody has ever modded some sort of explosive (1x1?) that would blow just a hole (and nothing else) on a wall, or the roof of a building, without causing any other damage around. Like the Fusion Torch but in explosive form (with a radius of 1 or less). This way units can gain entrance without a mess.

UFO walls, by being of an exotic material, can resist several attempts. Earth buildings can probably take in one blow.

If not, maybe I can try to mod one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2019, 12:26:18 am
As for breaching UFOs, and walls or roofs in general. I wonder if somebody has ever modded some sort of explosive (1x1?) that would blow just a hole (and nothing else) on a wall, or the roof of a building, without causing any other damage around. Like the Fusion Torch but in explosive form (with a radius of 1 or less). This way units can gain entrance without a mess.

UFO walls, by being of an exotic material, can resist several attempts. Earth buildings can probably take in one blow.

If not, maybe I can try to mod one.

It's been done even in vanilla X-Com (XCOMUTIL did this to hi-ex).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 08, 2019, 02:19:23 am
It's been done even in vanilla X-Com (XCOMUTIL did this to hi-ex).

What's the equivalent in XCF?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2019, 02:26:46 pm
Sorry, equivalent of what? If you mean the high explosive, it's basically unchanged from vanilla, except for generic changes on all explosives (like the overkill).
If you mean XCOMUTIL, it's a mod for the original X-Com, unrelated to the OXC.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Jimboman on March 08, 2019, 03:52:25 pm
What's the equivalent in XCF?

I don't know about Xcomfiles, but the latest version of Piratez has the Plamsa Breaching Charge.  Haven't used it on ship hulls, but it it's great for breaking into bank vaults!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 08, 2019, 10:15:38 pm
Sorry, equivalent of what? If you mean the high explosive, it's basically unchanged from vanilla, except for generic changes on all explosives (like the overkill).

Something like what Jimboman described for Piratez. I haven't played the latest version yet, thus I cannot comment.

As per this article (https://www.policeone.com/police-products/tactical/tactical-entry-tools/articles/171622006-Breaching-Which-option-is-best-for-your-team/), breaching in real life operations can be done in mainly four ways: 1. Mechanical (a hammer or pickaxe); 2. Ballistic (shot it with something); 3. Thermal (cut it with a flame, like the plasma cutter); and 4. Explosives (anything with a bang).

On the latter is where this post is all about. It would be like an explosive, cannot be thrown (to explode), small size, and the explosion is very small in range. In XCF: Dynamite and High Explosive are too powerful in the sense they damage many other tiles. In RL they would be classified as large demolition charges. Small demolition charges IRL are designed to make holes into doors, walls with minimal damage, usually contact explosives.

In OXCE, as far as I know, explosions affect all tiles around the explosion area, like an circle (or sphere), not in a cone shape, like these concentrated contact charges.

Maybe I'll test something (maybe based on what Dioxine's Piratez uses) and post it here for peer review.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2019, 11:49:01 pm
But that's also what XCOMUTIL did: make the Hi-Ex stronger, but decreased its radius. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 09, 2019, 12:09:12 am
But that's also what XCOMUTIL did: make the Hi-Ex stronger, but decreased its radius. :)

My memory of XCOMUTIL is fragile, I didn't recall that feature :P

Something else. My favorite explosive is actually the Tritanium Charge (or the blue High Explosive). Very useful for ambushing unsuspecting Cult of Apoc members that wonder too close to the landing craft :D. Yet the FloorOb (and also the HandOb?) of this explosive still shows the Red High Explosive. So I have a OCD attack every time :)
Maybe I can create a fix for the mod on this particular item?

EDIT: Attached two files for the Alloy Shrapnel Charge.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 09, 2019, 03:04:14 pm
Fantastic job! It's in.
As for the UFO breacher, I am still thinking about how to refactor all this and whether I should strengthen the walls themselves...

And anyway, 0.9.8h is out.

- New Geoscape and menu theme (by Panzerschlag).
- New Staff Input (by Mumble).
- New weapons: Galil, MG-3 (both by Alex D), Tritanium Grenade.
- Added panic and berserk sounds for all human and hybrid units, as well as chupacabras and shamblers.
- Added paperdoll for: Black Lotus Avatar (by Dioxine).
- Added floorob and handob to the Tritanium Shrapnel Charge (by Alex D).
- Black Lotus Avatar has a force shield now, and a custom death sound.
- Rebalanced the Scatter Laser and the Incinerator.
- Increased Stun costs on the Multi-Phased Psi-amp.
- Cultist loot redone: now it is hidden in containers, openable at the base.
- Shooting down UFOs now results in more angry UFOs, not base retaliations (you still get base assaults from standard monthly rolls).
- Merged the "Earth Lore" section into "Reports" and created a new section "Containers".
- Fixed the Hybrid Controllers mission spawn.
- Fixed some map properties (asbestos grass, one door in the skyscrapper, car spawning in the bathroom).
- Fixed the Psi-Amp handob.
- Fixed the Minotaur floorob.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 10, 2019, 01:14:56 am
Thanks for the featuring my images.
By the way, would you considering changing the floorops of the shadowbat? The current one looks like a rifle was left on the floor. I got confused so many times, walking one of my units to pick it up.  :)
I made one that resembles more the item's bigobs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Lohland on March 10, 2019, 12:39:09 pm
And what happened to the last three options
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 10, 2019, 01:34:09 pm
Thanks for the featuring my images.
By the way, would you considering changing the floorops of the shadowbat? The current one looks like a rifle was left on the floor. I got confused so many times, walking one of my units to pick it up.  :)
I made one that resembles more the item's bigobs.

Hmm, but honestly, your file looks completely like a fighter to me. :)
I thought it was a basescape icon at first, but the orientation seemed weird.

And what happened to the last three options

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6880.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 10, 2019, 10:39:56 pm
Hmm, but honestly, your file looks completely like a fighter to me. :)
I thought it was a basescape icon at first, but the orientation seemed weird.

Hahaha. Okay, back to the drawing board.

What about this version ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Stoddard on March 11, 2019, 12:24:48 am
Hahaha. Okay, back to the drawing board.

What about this version ?

This is some serious moustache. Reminds me of Nails from JA DeadlyGames / JA2.

The floorob on the other hand looks like a rat decided to suffocate itself in a plastic bag, but forgot which end goes where.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2019, 02:30:30 am
Let's face it, black objects suck.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Stoddard on March 11, 2019, 02:50:29 am
Let's face it, black objects suck.

Idk what this shadowbat is but ketchup-spraying never hurts. Even squashed mosquitos look better with a bit of blood.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 11, 2019, 03:25:18 am
Idk what this shadowbat is but ketchup-spraying never hurts. Even squashed mosquitos look better with a bit of blood.

With Ketchup, this time.

For reference, the original floorobs. Looks like a gun that was dropped by one of the NPC :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2019, 06:50:29 pm
OK, this one looks nice. Thanks, taken!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 12, 2019, 01:28:43 am
OK, this one looks nice. Thanks, taken!

Thanks.

I had a mission in the middle of the jungle, and I wished the Machete (or other similar one-handed weapon) was able to cut through the foliage.

What if the machete was able to do so? Not as effective as the pickaxe, but just enough to cut through items of 20 damage, which comprise most of these nature objects?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2019, 04:09:07 pm
I also had this idea. It's just, balancing these two types of attack is a bitch. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 13, 2019, 05:37:10 am
I also had this idea. It's just, balancing these two types of attack is a bitch. :)

I tried to balance one myself. Please see attached, for peer review: the Gurkha Knife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri) !

I want it to be a one handed weapon, but the chop animation (firing) for one handed stuff doesn't happen. I don't know much about scripts. Please see the ruleset for additional notes and comments.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2019, 11:41:19 am
OK, thanks - I will check ASAP. (Hopefully this week... It's a busy week.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on March 13, 2019, 11:39:52 pm
Fantastic job! It's in.
As for the UFO breacher, I am still thinking about how to refactor all this and whether I should strengthen the walls themselves...

And anyway, 0.9.8h is out.

- Cultist loot redone: now it is hidden in containers, openable at the base.

Look at that, another version is up! Do you have to open said containers in the Workshop, or as a "Research Topic"? Just to know, I'm considering to start this over once the Cult of Apocalypse is done, or at least the next version is up, I'm not sure yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 14, 2019, 01:28:05 pm
First you need to examine the box as a research topic (this doesn't destroy the box), and then you can open it in the workshop. The research only needs to be done once per container type.
A for the Cult of Apocalypse, I am actually working on it right now, but I don't expect to "finish" it any time soon... This arc is a "filler", meaning that it is not required to complete the game, and not even well defined. I have certain loose ideas which I will be implementing as needed/wanted.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: karnaugh_map on March 17, 2019, 09:11:24 pm
Just played the Black Lotus Shrine Mission, and the newly shielded avatar is tough! I went in with UAC rifles and armored vests, but trying to do over 120 kinetic damage in a single turn at range through the jungle to get past the shields and armor was nearly impossible. Had to charge in, losing a couple soldiers, to do enough single turn damage. Way different strategy than taking on the Red Dawn Coordinator where you can slowly take him down from range in the relative safety of your armor.

On a separate subject, the new crates are a bit fiddly since it essentially bypasses the end of mission auto-sell and all the obsolete weapons need to be sold manually.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 17, 2019, 09:19:43 pm
Just played the Black Lotus Shrine Mission, and the newly shielded avatar is tough! I went in with UAC rifles and armored vests, but trying to do over 120 kinetic damage in a single turn at range through the jungle to get past the shields and armor was nearly impossible. Had to charge in, losing a couple soldiers, to do enough single turn damage. Way different strategy than taking on the Red Dawn Coordinator where you can slowly take him down from range in the relative safety of your armor.

Great to hear! I've been worried she was too easy, despite her attacks. Now it's better.

On a separate subject, the new crates are a bit fiddly since it essentially bypasses the end of mission auto-sell and all the obsolete weapons need to be sold manually.

Yeah, but on the other hand you get the gun with proper ammo.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: karnaugh_map on March 17, 2019, 09:32:47 pm
Great to hear! I've been worried she was too easy, despite her attacks. Now it's better.

I definitely think it's difficult enough now with her laser(?) damage type, unlimited ammo and 100 kinetic shield that fully regenerates every turn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on March 20, 2019, 10:07:24 pm
I tried to balance one myself. Please see attached, for peer review: the Gurkha Knife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri) !

I want it to be a one handed weapon, but the chop animation (firing) for one handed stuff doesn't happen. I don't know much about scripts. Please see the ruleset for additional notes and comments.

That's one sexy knife. Alas in X-Files the thing glitches and the graphic becomes the body used for the Abomination enemy, funnily enough. The weapon itself works perfectly besides that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 21, 2019, 01:12:32 am
That's one sexy knife. Alas in X-Files the thing glitches and the graphic becomes the body used for the Abomination enemy, funnily enough. The weapon itself works perfectly besides that.

Thanks. That's possible because I had some trouble trying to get the proper sprites to show when the sprite offset range was acting. If Solarius accepts the add on, he can easily integrate the knife using the correct numbers from the main mod, and it should show fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: comradesean on March 23, 2019, 07:52:03 pm
Does anyone have the mediafire link for OpenXcom_XFiles_0.1.zip or still have the file saved somewhere? Looking for it for historical purposes. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 24, 2019, 01:16:37 pm
Does anyone have the mediafire link for OpenXcom_XFiles_0.1.zip or still have the file saved somewhere? Looking for it for historical purposes. Thanks!

Here's 0.1.1, from May 2016: http://www.mediafire.com/file/z6w1en9ma1i7q9s/OpenXcom_XFiles_0.1.1.zip/file
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on March 24, 2019, 09:51:35 pm
So, with the literal loot boxes, now you have an excuse to use engineers early.

Just to know though: Will we ever get portable forcefields and/or armor with integrated ones? Right now only Hybrids get them, which make them slightly better soldiers, especially for infiltration/limited gear missions.

Also, what will be the ideas for future additions to the list of soldiers you can take from? IIRC it was mentioned something about cyborgs. What about "regular" robots ala XCOM Enforcer?

Also also: What about "repurposing" soldiers killed in Power Suits to have a "brain in a jar" style cyborgs? IIRC there was a mod that kinda did something like that by having wrecked power suits able to be converted into exploration/combat bots of sorts.


Lastly, I don't know if I asked this before but: Will there be new additions to air combat?
Title: League Apprehension
Post by: unarmed drifter on March 24, 2019, 10:30:39 pm
Hi,

i'm about to pacify a mob of concerned citizens. It's my first League Apprehension Mission.
I've two helicopters (6/8 ppl) and a humvee. None is secretive enough for this mission.
What craft do i need? Can i cheat?

Thanks!
Title: Re: League Apprehension
Post by: Thunderwing280 on March 24, 2019, 11:15:20 pm
What craft do i need?
You need a van or a car/private car.
The concerned citizens need to be captured, otherwise you will get negative pionts like the crop circle missions when you shoot the farmers.
Only pistols and melee weapons are allowed I believe.
Title: Re: League Apprehension
Post by: unarmed drifter on March 24, 2019, 11:50:13 pm
You need a van or a car/private car.

ay this is unfortunate. i'll skip it, it not worth it to sell the humvee, buy the van, yadayda
thanks for the quick reply!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 25, 2019, 01:16:13 am
So, with the literal loot boxes, now you have an excuse to use engineers early.

Yeah, I hope it works all right.

Just to know though: Will we ever get portable forcefields and/or armor with integrated ones? Right now only Hybrids get them, which make them slightly better soldiers, especially for infiltration/limited gear missions.

Maybe? I don't have such plans right now, but these things just kind of emerge when the moment is right.

Also, what will be the ideas for future additions to the list of soldiers you can take from? IIRC it was mentioned something about cyborgs. What about "regular" robots ala XCOM Enforcer?

It's sort of planned. I mean, I stole the sprite already. It's just not very exciting, and I don't have any very good ideas anyway. Would probably be related to Dr. Standard...

Also also: What about "repurposing" soldiers killed in Power Suits to have a "brain in a jar" style cyborgs? IIRC there was a mod that kinda did something like that by having wrecked power suits able to be converted into exploration/combat bots of sorts.

A dead agent would make a dead brain in a jar... But I have certain plans for agent specializations.

Lastly, I don't know if I asked this before but: Will there be new additions to air combat?

I still have a few aircraft components to add.

Hi,

i'm about to pacify a mob of concerned citizens. It's my first League Apprehension Mission.
I've two helicopters (6/8 ppl) and a humvee. None is secretive enough for this mission.
What craft do i need? Can i cheat?

Thanks!

On top of what Thunderwing said, the mission should give you a list.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on March 25, 2019, 10:47:58 am
A dead agent would make a dead brain in a jar... But I have certain plans for agent specializations.

Not necessarily if the brain is recovered intact! Basically it was an excuse to recycle dead agents like Piratez does with Shades, but I suppose the cyborgs you have in mind are less extreme.

By the way, will there be different endgames besides blowing up the aliens' leadership? Piratez is planning to have several, but I dunno if your mod will have them, considering it's sorta an expansion to the original game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 25, 2019, 12:23:41 pm
No, I am not planning multiple endings right now. It's not that I don't have ideas, in fact I have many (and they were seriously considered), but I have way too much work with just one ending. At least for now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: unarmed drifter on March 25, 2019, 05:21:59 pm
the mission should give you a list.

nod really. i kinda knew i needed the van or sth, but i hoped for a bug or a new spy craft ;)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 25, 2019, 09:34:32 pm
Works just fine for me, as evident from the picture.
Do you happen to have some ancient version maybe?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: unarmed drifter on March 25, 2019, 09:51:03 pm
Do you happen to have some ancient version maybe?

well true.
i upgraded from 0.9.8g2 to 0.9.8h1 and it works :)
thanks a lot!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Vangrimar1 on March 28, 2019, 02:33:26 pm
Will the aliens carry out retaliatory missions after intercepting a UFO, or just send interceptors?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 29, 2019, 11:37:36 am
Will the aliens carry out retaliatory missions after intercepting a UFO, or just send interceptors?

They should send interceptors.
But base assaults will still happen anyway, just way less often (normal retaliation missions).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on March 30, 2019, 05:21:46 pm
Now that the Piratez' update is out, X-Files should follow soon, right?

By the way, I have some questions:

Is there some penalty besides losing points if you complete the "sell stuff to MAGMA Corporation" research line? Their Power Armor equivalent doesn't seem that good compared to the ones you can make, especially the Flying Power Suits.

If you DO NOT make the "Share Allow Ammo" deal, will Osiron still end up having Alloy Ammo eventually? Does not taking the deal prevent you from getting Alloy Ammo for Black Ops weapons (if you complete that Syndicate mission)?

Are there fire-type weapons that deal full damage besides the Napalm Grenade? I believe some alien ones do full WP/Burn damage instead of "just" 5-10 as they usually do.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 31, 2019, 05:04:08 pm
Now that the Piratez' update is out, X-Files should follow soon, right?

These aren't really related, but yeah, should be soon. :)

Is there some penalty besides losing points if you complete the "sell stuff to MAGMA Corporation" research line? Their Power Armor equivalent doesn't seem that good compared to the ones you can make, especially the Flying Power Suits.

Any such penalties are explained in plain text, though usually after the fact.
As for Power Armour's quality, it is indeed of lower tech level than the Power Suit, and especially the Flying Suit. But also it is geared against Earth weapons, while the PS/FS is profiled more against alien energy weapons, and since those weapons are genrally stronger, these suits seem overall better. At least I think it works like this.

If you DO NOT make the "Share Allow Ammo" deal, will Osiron still end up having Alloy Ammo eventually? Does not taking the deal prevent you from getting Alloy Ammo for Black Ops weapons (if you complete that Syndicate mission)?

Osiron won't have alloy ammo, but you will.

Are there fire-type weapons that deal full damage besides the Napalm Grenade? I believe some alien ones do full WP/Burn damage instead of "just" 5-10 as they usually do.

I can't give you a full list off the top of my head, but yes, some alien weapons are like this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on March 31, 2019, 11:47:51 pm
Osiron won't have alloy ammo, but you will.
In m current campaign, I'm avoiding researching the Sharing the Elerium and Alloy techs. However, there were some missions where I had to raid some warehouse of sorts, and among the captured loot were weapons with Tritanium ammo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 31, 2019, 11:50:15 pm
In m current campaign, I'm avoiding researching the Sharing the Elerium and Alloy techs. However, there were some missions where I had to raid some warehouse of sorts, and among the captured loot were weapons with Tritanium ammo.

I think it's still possible in very rare cases. In these cases, probably someone else broke the secrecy and left some AA ammo for Osiron to steal, but they don't have the blueprints, just the items for sale.

Hmmm... Would be cool if you could buy random items from Osiron, lol.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 01, 2019, 03:57:18 am
I think it's still possible in very rare cases. In these cases, probably someone else broke the secrecy and left some AA ammo for Osiron to steal, but they don't have the blueprints, just the items for sale.
The funny thing is I don't use the weapons whose alloy ammo I found, nor I never produced the ammo for any reason. *cue X-Files TV series music*

Hmmm... Would be cool if you could buy random items from Osiron, lol.
Are you given yourself some ideas?  (I totally support it BTW) :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Finnik on April 01, 2019, 09:52:37 am
In m current campaign, I'm avoiding researching the Sharing the Elerium and Alloy techs. However, there were some missions where I had to raid some warehouse of sorts, and among the captured loot were weapons with Tritanium ammo.
I think I forgot some requirements for warehouse  :-[
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 02, 2019, 09:46:01 am
Maybe I missed it. If a UFO is attacking one unarmed craft, the minimize screen icon (top left) has a red square. What is it for?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on April 02, 2019, 11:58:02 am
Maybe I missed it. If a UFO is attacking one unarmed craft, the minimize screen icon (top left) has a red square. What is it for?
Auto destruct ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 02, 2019, 08:42:57 pm
Auto destruct ?

Hmmm. And why I'd like to use in my fully loaded troop transport (SkyMarshall) ? (Luckily it was escorted).
I'd be more inclined to use it if it was some sort of ejection seat for the pilots, so the craft is lost but the pilot get to survive (say with a high % and/or wounded) to return to the base to fight another day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 02, 2019, 09:12:33 pm
Hmmm. And why I'd like to use in my fully loaded troop transport (SkyMarshall) ? (Luckily it was escorted).
I'd be more inclined to use it if it was some sort of ejection seat for the pilots, so the craft is lost but the pilot get to survive (say with a high % and/or wounded) to return to the base to fight another day.

Pilots (and any other personnel onboard) get a 97% chance to survive a crash. Their equipment is lost, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 02, 2019, 09:58:41 pm
Pilots (and any other personnel onboard) get a 97% chance to survive a crash. Their equipment is lost, though.

I have to try that next time (maybe on a save copy).
But I don't see this option enabled on a regular fighter craft, or is it?
(looks at a newbie in the mirror)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 02, 2019, 11:36:20 pm
It's a global option, in vars_XCOMFILES.rul. It's called crewEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Covenant on April 02, 2019, 11:45:30 pm
Does that apply on purely passenger craft like the Skyranger? My first real campaign just came to an end because an alien intercepted my course and blew it out of the sky, killing everyone on board. I'm assuming I wasn't just ridiculously unlucky and failed the 97% chance test 12 times?

Also, is there any kind of warning within the mod for the fact that this can occur? It was a nasty shock, and I'm a little surprised given the Piratez influence that more of the ingame mechanics and threats aren't elaborated on through the research. It's cool that a couple of the dossiers unlock missions, but most of them seem largely useless, and the explanation of things like Camo, Stun recovery, etc, that Piratez offered would probably be more help to people who are going in unspoiled. Particularly with stuff added just in this mod, like the interceptions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 03, 2019, 01:50:05 am
Does that apply on purely passenger craft like the Skyranger?

There is no distinction.

My first real campaign just came to an end because an alien intercepted my course and blew it out of the sky, killing everyone on board. I'm assuming I wasn't just ridiculously unlucky and failed the 97% chance test 12 times?

Maybe it was before I set that? Or something is just wrong. Please tell me it's not wrong.

Also, is there any kind of warning within the mod for the fact that this can occur? It was a nasty shock, and I'm a little surprised given the Piratez influence that more of the ingame mechanics and threats aren't elaborated on through the research. It's cool that a couple of the dossiers unlock missions, but most of them seem largely useless, and the explanation of things like Camo, Stun recovery, etc, that Piratez offered would probably be more help to people who are going in unspoiled. Particularly with stuff added just in this mod, like the interceptions.

Well, almost no "tutorial" is hidden behind research, except some psionic stuff. I can add more articles, but it's never easy to recognize what is unclear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Covenant on April 03, 2019, 05:33:33 am
Maybe it was before I set that? Or something is just wrong. Please tell me it's not wrong.

After reading this thread a little more closely, I think I might have hit the self-destruct button when trying to minimize the intercept window. I wanted to quickly minimize and see if I could get another craft up in the air to come help, but I didn't realise the minimize button had turned into self-destruct. I suppose the fact that it was red should have been a clue, but I was already panicking about being attacked.

Well, almost no "tutorial" is hidden behind research, except some psionic stuff. I can add more articles, but it's never easy to recognize what is unclear.

Here's a few things I think would benefit from being detailed in articles:

The fact that dogs and AIs can improve their stats, and some tips for when they're best used.
Whether melee attacks are more effective from the back here. I don't mean in terms of armour, I mean in terms of chance to hit. Piratez had evasion, but I see that doesn't apply to melee here, so does it matter what direction you poke someone from?
How the whole 'Aliens intercepting you' thing works (and recovering crashed guys, if that's a thing). Mention self-destruct! :P
How alien psionics work, particularly vis a vis enemy sight - is the thing where if they see one of your guys, they can control any of your guys still a thing? Do they still focus on the weakest guy (which is pretty exploitable)?
Something telling the player to enable alternate movement methods (running helps so much in the earlygame). Or just make it default.
(Possibly) Some vague guidance on things that are tricky and might trip new players' up. 'It's worth bringing a few heavy melee weapons along with you on most missions - they can penetrate armour where small arms would fail'. Or, after discovering the Psi strength of your soldiers, something like 'Be careful about who you bring on missions against enemy psionics! Soldiers below XX Psionic Strength are likely to be exceptionally vulnerable to alien psionic attacks'. And 'Don't leave the Skyranger on the first turn! The aliens all start with full TUs...', etc etc.
(Possibly) Some hinting toward which missions are fine to skip and which will greatly damage your score.

Some of the above seems obvious, perhaps, but for my part at least I've recommended this mod (and Piratez) to people who barely played the original XCOM. Rather than have them poring over a Ufopaedia article laying out exactly how Psi Strength influences their defence, it seems simpler to just have a succinct explanation of what they need to know placed in the mod, accessed through research.

You can't really go wrong with providing more information to people in my opinion. And people pay more attention to a cheap and interestingly-titled research topic than they would to a readme.

Other random feedback:

The game is good fun, and I love the working your way up from humble beginnings aspect. However, too much of the earlygame becomes a slow grind - there's only so many times you can have a bunch of new agents standing in a square and reaction-firing at a wide open field full of scorpions and giant rats before it gets painful. I'd suggest buffing the gym to work faster and take agents to a higher level, and potentially nerfing a couple of the more bullshit 'death from nowhere' things, like Lotus Assassins. I've heard people say that the grindiness is something that's still being worked on though, which is good to hear.

I was surprised, given the Piratez influence, that night ops are so harshly punished here. It was great fun in that mod sneaking around and taking out unsuspecting Academy guys, even if it was a little OP in the earlygame. Here it seems borderline suicidal, at least in the first couple of years. Is there at least a way to turn off the lights on the car/van/craft/whatever you came in? They're doing my agents absolutely no favours.

Weapon balance could use some work. Magnums are too accurate, and there seems little incentive to use rifles and machine guns instead. From something like month 6 to month 30, the vast majority of my squad went from using magnums, to black ops magnums, and eventually smart magnums. A couple of them had Arasaka 3000's, and one had a Milkor (eventually upgraded to a rocket launcher) but aside from undercover missions there rarely seemed an incentive to use anything else.

I was a little unclear on what things could be 'Lost Forever'. Like, the staff of Dagon and Heartgrip staffs - would I lose all opportunities to get more of those after I elimated the Church of Dagon? And the missions that come up saying 'You'll only get one chance at this', like the Lo Wo mission - will it only appear the once, or does it just mean I can only attempt it once, but I can leave it for now and it'll repop in a couple of months? Not a big deal, but worth clarifying if possible.

Anyway, thanks for all your hard work on the mod. It's a lot of fun, and one day, when someone combines it with XPiratez and then remakes the whole thing in the Jagged Alliance 2 engine, we'll have achieved gaming perfection ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 03, 2019, 03:00:01 pm
Commits suicide
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HinterDemGlas on April 03, 2019, 07:04:17 pm
Commits suicide
Oh no?!

How alien psionics work, particularly vis a vis enemy sight - is the thing where if they see one of your guys, they can control any of your guys still a thing? Do they still focus on the weakest guy (which is pretty exploitable)?
Psionics should be nominally unknown and scary in my opinion.

I'd suggest buffing the gym to work faster and take agents to a higher level, and potentially nerfing a couple of the more bullshit 'death from nowhere' things, like Lotus Assassins. I've heard people say that the grindiness is something that's still being worked on though, which is good to hear.
The gym is very very good already; I agree on the mission grindiness though. It's my own fault to a point, I needed the cash so badly I couldn't skip a single cryptid hunt.

I was surprised, given the Piratez influence, that night ops are so harshly punished here. It was great fun in that mod sneaking around and taking out unsuspecting Academy guys, even if it was a little OP in the earlygame. Here it seems borderline suicidal, at least in the first couple of years. Is there at least a way to turn off the lights on the car/van/craft/whatever you came in? They're doing my agents absolutely no favours.
Night missions are valid and useful in this mod. In fact I get utterly ruined everytime I try day missions against human enemies in the early game.
Press 'l' to switch off the personal lights. The lights on the craft are actually flashlights lying on the ground. Don't bring flashlights! Flashlights are a death trap! Bring a dog and some E-lights and stick to the black squares. A few enemies will shoot at you from across the map for no discernible reason even when you've gone perfectly dark but they usually miss.

Weapon balance could use some work. Magnums are too accurate, and there seems little incentive to use rifles and machine guns instead. From something like month 6 to month 30, the vast majority of my squad went from using magnums, to black ops magnums, and eventually smart magnums. A couple of them had Arasaka 3000's, and one had a Milkor (eventually upgraded to a rocket launcher) but aside from undercover missions there rarely seemed an incentive to use anything else.
I agree on the Magnums.
Rifles are useful, especially precision ones. The only "real life" SMG I ended up using was the MAC10 for 16 fucking shots per turn. the best "real life" machine gun is the M60, being useful at rifle range and reaction fire, the others have a pitiful effective range. It would be nice if more MGs had Snap Shot(x2) or (x3).
All the Black Ops machine guns and miniguns are hella sweet though.

Anyway, thanks for all your hard work on the mod. It's a lot of fun, and one day, when someone combines it with XPiratez and then remakes the whole thing in the Jagged Alliance 2 engine, we'll have achieved gaming perfection ;)
I can see the light now...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Covenant on April 04, 2019, 02:45:20 am
Commits suicide

See, it's easy to do by mistake, isn't it? :P

Seriously though, you're doing a great job on the mod and I hope I didn't imply otherwise. I look forward to seeing how it continues to develop, whether anything I said above is implemented or not.

Psionics should be nominally unknown and scary in my opinion.

I agree to a degree - I certainly wouldn't telegraph which enemies have what attacks, and there's no need to go into the precise formulas - but I'd at least warn people how it can be. I can only imagine how pissed a player would feel if they had some guy with a loaded rocket launcher - who they assumed was safely out of sight of the aliens at the back of the landing craft - mind controlled into blowing up half his squad just because they sent out a couple of scouts on the first turn.

My perspective is probably coloured by the fact that I play Ironman, which I've been assuming is the norm. Reloading obviously ameliorates issues like that immensely.

The gym is very very good already; I agree on the mission grindiness though. It's my own fault to a point, I needed the cash so badly I couldn't skip a single cryptid hunt.

Yeah, the gym is good. I certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise. It just seems like an easy way to solve the grindiness issue without introducing other unintended consequences.

Night missions are valid and useful in this mod. In fact I get utterly ruined everytime I try day missions against human enemies in the early game.
Press 'l' to switch off the personal lights. The lights on the craft are actually flashlights lying on the ground. Don't bring flashlights! Flashlights are a death trap! Bring a dog and some E-lights and stick to the black squares. A few enemies will shoot at you from across the map for no discernible reason even when you've gone perfectly dark but they usually miss.

Aha! I was aware of 'l', but it was the flashlights. I was bringing a bunch (for no real reason). Thanks for clearing that up, I look forward to doing some sneaky night missions in my new campaign.

I agree on the Magnums.
Rifles are useful, especially precision ones. The only "real life" SMG I ended up using was the MAC10 for 16 fucking shots per turn. the best "real life" machine gun is the M60, being useful at rifle range and reaction fire, the others have a pitiful effective range. It would be nice if more MGs had Snap Shot(x2) or (x3).
All the Black Ops machine guns and miniguns are hella sweet though.

Which rifles would you say are worth using? I found the Nitro Express and Hunting Rifle decent before I got magnums, and later it was worth keeeping a couple of Arasakas on my guys for those really long-distance shots (on the 120+ Firing Accuracy guys, obviously), but for everything else the magnums were top-tier. Particularly with tritanium ammo, which tied up my engineers but was otherwise pretty cheap to produce.

Anyway, thanks for reading all that. And being able to do night missions without starting Turn 1 in a self-created spotlight will probably do wonders for my next campaign!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2019, 11:47:03 am
Don't worry, I am just overwhelmed. :) No time to even respond properly, so implementing all this would be a huge task. (Not going into what makes sense and what doesn't.)
But I assure you the mod development continues in the background. For example yesterday I rebalanced all rifles and sniper rifles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HinterDemGlas on April 04, 2019, 06:09:58 pm
Which rifles would you say are worth using? I found the Nitro Express and Hunting Rifle decent before I got magnums, and later it was worth keeeping a couple of Arasakas on my guys for those really long-distance shots (on the 120+ Firing Accuracy guys, obviously), but for everything else the magnums were top-tier. Particularly with tritanium ammo, which tied up my engineers but was otherwise pretty cheap to produce.
I like to mix and match and experiment so I have always around 5 uniform templates. But the most standard early game agent had a rifle in the right hand, a pistol in the left hand, empty QD holster to put away the pistol easily, electric club in the belt.

For rookies (usually already gym-improved but not capped) the rifle was a shotgun, the pistol a Glock or other quick handgun like the MAC-10 for better training and variety.
The precision rifle for the main troops and elites progressed something like this over my game, influenced by chance and blind trying:
Crossbow->Hunting Rifle->Nitro Express(semi-retired into anti-fleshtank niche)->SKS->trying out various rifles->Arasaka(the Queen of Rifles)->Asuka(but that's later game?)
I also used some assault rifles but they were usually outperformed by marksmen with access to a pistol. The FN-Fal and the G-11 have their own niches as elite hole maker and training horse respectively.

But I assure you the mod development continues in the background. For example yesterday I rebalanced all rifles and sniper rifles.
And now nothin I said matters anymore!

Thanks for the constant work!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2019, 11:00:27 pm
Thanks for the constant work!

If you're interested, check out my GitHub. ;)
https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles

It is regularly updated and you can even download the newest version. ;) But of course it's completely untested and sometimes doesn't even work. (Usually does, though.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 05, 2019, 04:17:51 am
Question about research labs.
In my current campaign, I have one base for main strikes and research, another base for more strikes and training, two bases for manufacturing, and in construction another base for storage, research and minor manufacturing.
On the latter base I build an Advanced Lab only. On the first base I built Standard, Improved, and Advanced Labs. Upon checking the research options available, I realized that some research items are only available if the Standard or Improved Labs are available, but they are not available if only the Advanced Lab is present.
I always thought that Advanced provides: Advanced, Improved, and Standard Lab functions; Improved provides: Improved and Standard Lab functions; and Standard Lab only Standard Lab. But in Stats For Neds each lab provides for its class only.

My question is if they should be like:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ADVANCED_LABORATORY
    provideBaseFunc: [ADVLAB,IMPLAB,STDLAB]
  - type: STR_IMPROVED_LABORATORY
    provideBaseFunc: [IMPLAB,STDLAB]
  - type: STR_LABORATORY
    provideBaseFunc: [STDLAB]
or the way it is now is as intended?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 05, 2019, 10:45:05 am
Yes, it is as intended. The various lab stages are specialized facilities rather than straight upgrades.
Maybe I should give them different names, like "high energy lab" and such?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on April 05, 2019, 09:00:09 pm
Attached are the ufopedia images for the different giant spiders. Colors don't quite match the inventory images due to different palettes. Let me know if these are ok.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 06, 2019, 03:33:33 am
Yes, it is as intended. The various lab stages are specialized facilities rather than straight upgrades.
Maybe I should give them different names, like "high energy lab" and such?

Thanks for clarifying. I suppose an explanation that "lesser" research cannot be performed on the more specialized labs can go along with a name change.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 06, 2019, 04:28:22 pm
Attached are the ufopedia images for the different giant spiders. Colors don't quite match the inventory images due to different palettes. Let me know if these are ok.

Great job, thanks. Added.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Water Puppers on April 08, 2019, 05:56:59 am
Quick question about the 'Trident' submarine you unlock after researching 'Advanced Underwater Operations'; Does the Trident replaces the 'Calypso'?

If it does then why am I only getting the Calypso (Using an Osprey with 15 dudes)?

If it doesn't then how do you use it/acquire it?

Thank you, and sorry if I posted this incorrectly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on April 08, 2019, 01:37:36 pm
The Trident is not a 'real' craft - the research only unlocks additional missions that feature the Trident as a starting position. It doesn't change missions that are already unlocked.

...

As far as i can tell it's easier to do it this way than to add allowedCraft entries to all missions so people don't use the submarines to assault UFOs (among other things).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 08, 2019, 02:07:18 pm
Yes, precisely. I would have to add special restrictions to all the other missions, and that's insane. Also you would fly these subs around the globe, which is even more outrageous than the car and van (as they're a representation of flying and renting).
I don't like it much myself, but I haven't came up with a better solution.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on April 08, 2019, 02:17:55 pm
Also you would fly these subs around the globe, which is even more outrageous than the car and van (as they're a representation of flying and renting).

It's not, actually:

Quote
NATO Submarine Rescue System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Submarine_Rescue_System)

[...]The complete system is fully air transportable in a variety of suitable aircraft (C17/C5/An124/A400M). It is capable of launch and recovery in a significant wave height of up to 5 meter(sea state 6) and can reach any distressed submarine (DISSUB) in 72-96 hours from the alert, dependent upon location. It has limited capability in ice-covered seas.

Granted, the real life equivalent probably needs a support vessel to deploy the submarine, but i wouldn't put it past X-COM to simply shove the damn thing out of the back of a low flying transport aircraft to be picked up at a later date when the actual support vessel arrives on site.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 08, 2019, 02:21:57 pm
Well... This is possible, yeah... But still, there is the first issue to consider.
Also I am hesitant about forcing the player to have yet another hangar. What are your feelings about this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on April 08, 2019, 02:47:17 pm
It would of course be nice to have an actual submarine to build and maintain, but i think at this point there is no reasonable way to implement it. It's one thing to prohibit certain crafts from some missions, but adding the afromentioned 'allowedCraft ' entries to all misisons is simply not practical, especially as these would have to be revised as you add more crafts to the mod and/or change missions.

This would hinge on OXCE implementing a way of exclusively allowing crafts on a per-mission basis or (as has been recently requested) tying items to mission spawns (i.e. the player has build a submarine / has one in his base inventory). Another way of implementing this would be to tie base functions to mission spawns (build a submarine 'hangar'/base module).

Adding 'yet another hangar' would probably be less of an issue if we had different craft/hangar sizes. As far as i can tell this is actually on the feature roadmap for OXCE and it would probably play nicely with all the cars X-Com Files has. Using a whole hangar for a Van or a Porsche just doesn't feel right. What we need is a carpark. It would free up three (or four, if you have more than one) additional base tiles per ground craft, if you allow multiple cars per carpark.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Covenant on April 08, 2019, 11:50:19 pm
Adding 'yet another hangar' would probably be less of an issue if we had different craft/hangar sizes. As far as i can tell this is actually on the feature roadmap for OXCE and it would probably play nicely with all the cars X-Com Files has. Using a whole hangar for a Van or a Porsche just doesn't feel right. What we need is a carpark. It would free up three (or four, if you have more than one) additional base tiles per ground craft, if you allow multiple cars per carpark.

Do most people have multiple cars at the point they're doing advanced underwater missions, though?

For my part I ditched all my cars/vans as soon as I reached Promotion III. I had to give up on a few missions that needed civilian transportation, unfortunately (like League of Concerned Citizens ones), but I just didn't have the space for another hanger. And juggling my capable agents between my spare bases wasn't really viable, as the transfers take so long the missions disappear. The smart thing to do would probably be to send teams out from different bases right from the early game, training up agents at two or three bases at once, but it seems like that would double or triple the time needed to reach the same point of capableness.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 09, 2019, 12:14:23 am
Do most people have multiple cars at the point they're doing advanced underwater missions, though?

Yes. I go for as many cars as possible. Once you research a Pickup (5 seater SUV, I wish the string text refer it to SUV), you can ditch all cars (public, van, private). If you want a sixth agent, for some missions (sports, beach), have a Helicopter (it's a bit slow).

In my current campaign, my primary base has three hangars. One for a Sky-Marshall with my best troops for major strikes (large UFOs, alien bases, etc), and another for a Thunderstorm for escorting/local strikes. The third hangar is free for transfers. My secondary base has more troops but they are still in training. That 2nd base however has five hangars: Another Sky-Marshall, another Thunderstorm, a SUV, a civilian Helicopter, and one free for transfers. The rest of my bases have one each a Thunderstorm (escorting/support strikes).  I keep around an Arrow (for nostalgia  :) ), and a Dragonfly (8 agents) for the odd cover mission to the Syndicate tower.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on April 09, 2019, 02:52:10 pm
Yeah, i keep vans in my primary and secondary base as well as a helicopter at my recruitment center. Also the occasional dragonfly because i just can't get myself to sell all of my initial crafts.

[...]but I just didn't have the space for another hanger.

Again, multiple hangar sizes would be nice. Storing multiple vans/cars in a 1x1 car park would pretty much solve any space issues connected to hangars (at least for me :P).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: BlackStaff on April 10, 2019, 11:36:33 am
Again, multiple hangar sizes would be nice. Storing multiple vans/cars in a 1x1 car park would pretty much solve any space issues connected to hangars (at least for me.
+1 !  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 10, 2019, 12:03:29 pm
Yankes has promised this feature. When it happens, it happens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: unarmed drifter on April 14, 2019, 03:26:59 pm
ok, this is probably not the right sub-board to ask, but anyway:
where do i find the soundfile which is played when i successfully finish a mission?
(the happy & fast one)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Thunderwing280 on April 15, 2019, 12:10:40 pm
I've been playing x-files for a while now and i've only found a shogg lantern once which is the playthrough im doing now which was found in a spiders attack mission phase two. Apparently there are hidden cave missions as well, and I've never seen them in all of my playthroughs, do they spawn independently or is the only way the spiders attack mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Niewiem on April 16, 2019, 01:29:36 pm
Shogg act is pretty far in the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: DevFried on April 19, 2019, 03:01:56 am
Hello, great mod, love the atmosphere, enjoying it a lot currently (although its spotlight is mostly taken by piratez it seems). Just had some questions/input:

1. Sometimes in outpost missions enemies can start with like ten enemies staring right into your face on your first turn (especially fun when you have couple of exalt agents with grenade launchers), ready to blast the entire mag at once the second you do anything, you have no chance of survival even with a smoke and killing as much enemies as possible on your turn with grenades or whatever, until later on when you can afford tanking all of the damage with armor.

2. On jungle maps, various plants can block your path around the spawn vehicle and it's not easy to break them, I also had a cult hideout mission with the building placed in the corner of the map with a lake in front of it and the only tiny path it had to it was blocked by plants again, so enemy melee fighters had no chance of getting to me, but so did I. I didn't have fire at the time too. Is it possible to use machete to cut them down?

3. I guess you're not meant to tackle some missions very early on your first year, but I generally did well with everything game was throwing at me, even the early reaper mission with two reapers while I only had pistols and shotguns (captured them both, had a good map where I could shoot them without getting smacked using bait&switch tactics and the fact that they're too fat and couldn't fit between the trees and small lakes), but the only legit mission I had to abort because of how bullshit it was, was the bullfrog infestation mission. The map had like ten of them and they all had insane reaction fire and shoot three-four times a turn across the map with lethal precision, with each of their projectiles instantly knocking you out and burning your TU if you manage to withstand, and I had absolutely no means of dealing with them at that time, I couldn't even kill one with everything I got (reaper-tier health and defenses too?!).

4. Not sure if this is possible to change for grenades only, but I found myself unpriming the grenade too many times on accident when I just wanted to throw it, so I thought maybe switch the action position so the throw action would be the first instead of last for grenades?

5. At one point when I was in a pinch I accidentally activated incendiary grenade instead of smoke and burned my entire squad. May I suggest changing incendiary sprite a little to make it more distinct? It looks too similar to a smoke right now.

6. Flashbangs can be thrown as items farther than being used as bangs which is kinda weird to me. Does it magically become heavier when activated? But I guess that's the quirk of "use" vs "throw" which is boosted by strength.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Covenant on April 19, 2019, 02:10:35 pm
1. Sometimes in outpost missions enemies can start with like ten enemies staring right into your face on your first turn (especially fun when you have couple of exalt agents with grenade launchers), ready to blast the entire mag at once the second you do anything, you have no chance of survival even with a smoke and killing as much enemies as possible on your turn with grenades or whatever, until later on when you can afford tanking all of the damage with armor.

Yeah - I don't think it's any change this mod makes (though it's exacerbated by the larger numbers of enemies), but it does feel like the random placement/facing of enemies at the start can make a huge difference - bigger than the number of enemies, or their types/weapons. Which leads to a lot of missions where you land and then just end up aborting on turn 1. Again, not the fault of this mod, but it'd be nice to tone down that RNG aspect without losing replayability if it were possible to do so. Fighting at night might ameliorate this somewhat?

2. On jungle maps, various plants can block your path around the spawn vehicle and it's not easy to break them, I also had a cult hideout mission with the building placed in the corner of the map with a lake in front of it and the only tiny path it had to it was blocked by plants again, so enemy melee fighters had no chance of getting to me, but so did I. I didn't have fire at the time too. Is it possible to use machete to cut them down?

Not really related but last time I played XPiratez, to get the last Academy Researcher or whatever it was on some night mission on a lake map I had to stun one of my girls and then throw them over the water so she could wake up, reach the guy and take him out. I wouldn't like to have to do it often, but it was actually pretty funny at the time.

3. I guess you're not meant to tackle some missions very early on your first year, but I generally did well with everything game was throwing at me, even the early reaper mission with two reapers while I only had pistols and shotguns (captured them both, had a good map where I could shoot them without getting smacked using bait&switch tactics and the fact that they're too fat and couldn't fit between the trees and small lakes), but the only legit mission I had to abort because of how bullshit it was, was the bullfrog infestation mission. The map had like ten of them and they all had insane reaction fire and shoot three-four times a turn across the map with lethal precision, with each of their projectiles instantly knocking you out and burning your TU if you manage to withstand, and I had absolutely no means of dealing with them at that time, I couldn't even kill one with everything I got (reaper-tier health and defenses too?!).

Yeah, those frogs are crazy. I only ever seem to encounter them in huge hordes when they seem like they'd be better like the Fenris Wolf, just one or two on a map. Last time I attempted 'em (with my Promotion III guys) I barely managed to kill one in the first turn, then had to abandon the mission before the remaining dozen turned around and tongued me to death.

5. At one point when I was in a pinch I accidentally activated incendiary grenade instead of smoke and burned my entire squad. May I suggest changing incendiary sprite a little to make it more distinct? It looks too similar to a smoke right now.

Hah, I keep mistaking those two as well. Haven't burned up my guys yet but I have made a few mistakes in the loadout screen because of it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 19, 2019, 04:04:43 pm
Yeah - I don't think it's any change this mod makes (though it's exacerbated by the larger numbers of enemies), but it does feel like the random placement/facing of enemies at the start can make a huge difference - bigger than the number of enemies, or their types/weapons. Which leads to a lot of missions where you land and then just end up aborting on turn 1. Again, not the fault of this mod, but it'd be nice to tone down that RNG aspect without losing replayability if it were possible to do so. Fighting at night might ameliorate this somewhat?

There is no magical "keep a distance of X between map objects" command. How maps are generated depends on map scripts. You can (with a lot of effort) force the game to always spawn your craft at certain coordinates, and the UFO/building at some other coordinates, but that would be way too crude.
Also, a lot depends on your playstyle. I think starting next to a cult building is often good, since for example you can charge them with swords on turn 1. It is very relative.

Not really related but last time I played XPiratez, to get the last Academy Researcher or whatever it was on some night mission on a lake map I had to stun one of my girls and then throw them over the water so she could wake up, reach the guy and take him out. I wouldn't like to have to do it often, but it was actually pretty funny at the time.

I have to say, it's the first time I'm hearing of using this method. Kudos, man.

Yeah, those frogs are crazy. I only ever seem to encounter them in huge hordes when they seem like they'd be better like the Fenris Wolf, just one or two on a map. Last time I attempted 'em (with my Promotion III guys) I barely managed to kill one in the first turn, then had to abandon the mission before the remaining dozen turned around and tongued me to death.

You must be very unlucky, since I always find just one or two... :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: DevFried on April 20, 2019, 02:22:46 am
I agree it's sometimes beneficial to spawn near the cult building, but not when they're all already outside waiting for you to move (which makes sense actually because they had you coming). Charging at them like that would be suicidal with every armed dude shooting at you not once, but three-four times with their full TUs. So what usually happens:
1. You spawn super close to the base. Cultists are inside, whom you can effortlessly whack as they try to exit, for extra sadist points you can also burn/poison all the exits so they set themselves on fire/damage themselves as they move, throw the mines, cooked grenades, etc, full police brutality mode. That's the easiest smackdown and it's really fun.
2. Same as 1, but cultists are all outside swarming your vehicle and staring at you. This is where you die. Sometimes you can make it if you're able to kill the closest dudes without dying and taking cover behind your car/near objects which never seem to spawn closely (but all enemies conveniently have cover), however this always results at least in one injury.
3. You spawn relatively far on the opposite corner of the building. This can be either slow and boring, or exciting and thrilling infiltration with long-range sniping involved. Enemies can surprise you with their sniper-spotter tactic too and grenade launcher you all the way from their base (which you can do too and it's fun seeing them go apeshit when you grenade their highest ranking dude from afar as they start shooting each other).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on April 20, 2019, 07:35:32 pm
I tried the master version of Github to get a sneak peek to what Sol is planning.

These new pets are funny to use, but they seem to be rare and not as good as "proper" dogs or scout drones.

Nevertheless, I have a question to make I'm not sure if it's been asked already: Does smoke caused by the fire extinguisher also hide units like a smoke bomb does? I would believe so, but it would be better to confirm it. Also, can a smoke bomb extinguish an unit on fire as well, or is it an exclusive script thing to the fire extinguisher?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 20, 2019, 08:43:12 pm
I tried the master version of Github to get a sneak peek to what Sol is planning.

These new pets are funny to use, but they seem to be rare and not as good as "proper" dogs or scout drones.

Depends on what you expect of them; if you want damage, rats obviously aren't as good as dogs or tanquettes. I use them primarily for nigh vision, though Lady managed to kill a Dagon disciple in two hits! (after many misses)

Nevertheless, I have a question to make I'm not sure if it's been asked already: Does smoke caused by the fire extinguisher also hide units like a smoke bomb does? I would believe so, but it would be better to confirm it. Also, can a smoke bomb extinguish an unit on fire as well, or is it an exclusive script thing to the fire extinguisher?

AFAIR only the fire extinguisher works on units.
There is only one type of smoke in the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Covenant on April 21, 2019, 03:11:28 am
Does anyone have any tips for effective use of melee tactics? Based on Sol's previous reply (and things others have said in this thread previously) it sounds like it can be strong, but whenever I've gone that way it always ends up being 'Run toward the enemy - get wounded in a hail of reaction fire - half my guys miss their targets and wind up standing in front of them, bleeding - other half kill their targets but are left out in the open - everybody dies when the enemy takes their turn'.

Obviously, I get that it's not appropriate to every situation (you can't charge across a wide open field to stab someone on the other side of the map) but short of indoor missions like the Black Lotus party I can't really make effective use of it. Are you waiting until you have strong protection like cyber armour, or are you using your rookies as expendable kamikazes? Maybe I just need to use more smoke grenades.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Space on April 21, 2019, 07:48:57 am
Does anyone have any tips for effective use of melee tactics? Based on Sol's previous reply (and things others have said in this thread previously) it sounds like it can be strong, but whenever I've gone that way it always ends up being 'Run toward the enemy - get wounded in a hail of reaction fire - half my guys miss their targets and wind up standing in front of them, bleeding - other half kill their targets but are left out in the open - everybody dies when the enemy takes their turn'.

Obviously, I get that it's not appropriate to every situation (you can't charge across a wide open field to stab someone on the other side of the map) but short of indoor missions like the Black Lotus party I can't really make effective use of it. Are you waiting until you have strong protection like cyber armour, or are you using your rookies as expendable kamikazes? Maybe I just need to use more smoke grenades.
Use cover to hide your approach towards the enemy, never run in the open towards them, always approach from the back if possible.
Sometimes you are better off not using melee, always know when it's the time to fold and keep your melee operatives hidden until it's time to strike.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: justaround on April 21, 2019, 11:27:13 am
Does anyone have any tips for effective use of melee tactics?

Ambushes. About the only time I found melee preferable to guns was when I had a squad positioned near the entrance to some small, enclosed space SWAT style and then rushed in. In almost every other case I can think of, guns are more effective, at least till you'll get some soldiers who are decked out in a proper armor, can run very far and stab/bash an enemy a couple of times with a decent weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Alex_D on April 21, 2019, 01:01:50 pm
Does anyone have any tips for effective use of melee tactics?
I use melee when I have an enemy unit in a position where CQC would trigger preventing my agents from firing their gun or when the enemy can reaction-fire one-shot kill my agent. Else the agent is firing the gun.
I just completed a campaign a few days ago:
For what is worth, I found myself using the stun baton and the tritanium knife all the way but the end in Mars, at which point I only carried the knife as the backup melee weapon. It is 2x1 only, light, and uses little TUs per attack.
The QD slot is always with the knife, the electric club, or the flashlight, while the others with the vertical belt slots. The left shoulder is with a motion detector and a pre-primed smoke grenade. The horizontal belt with healing gel. The rest of the weapons changed over the campaign: Essentially, glocks as sidearms for most of the time, replaced by the smartpistol with alloy ammo when available. FN P-90 or CAWS as entry weapon, Arasaka 3000 for the fully trained soldiers. Support soldiers with the MG3 (I love the two bullet reaction fire). And everyone switched to Heavy Plasma once it is researched.
Are you waiting until you have strong protection like cyber armour, or are you using your rookies as expendable kamikazes? Maybe I just need to use more smoke grenades.
No, my agents are valuable, as I don't like negative scores if I can avoid it  :)
This campaign (Ironman) I didn't use dogs (I researched motion detectors early on) or hybrids (too weak). I didn't use AI units until a laser (hover) tank became available, then two of these plus 8 soldiers on the SkyMarshall as the typical squad, sorted by strength. My soldiers outfits were like kevlar/armored/tritanium vests, and when available all switched to the synthsuit (from dead mutons). Then flying suit all the way to Cydonia (Avenger with fully trained soldiers with Psi-Strength > 80). The Toxisuit and the juggernaut suit for the Dimension-X and underwater missions, respectively. The leather coat and later the bulletproof coat for the occasional undercover mission. I didn't share my techs so no power armor. Also I didn't built the cyber armor or any other armor except as noted above.
As per tactics, if my enemy is human, I fight at night and I strategically throw flashlights and/or electro-flares to create a ring of light around the dark area where my agents are. And I use the cover of darkness to ambush the enemy. The agents pick these light generating items as they move. My favorite was when the car was only available, was to drop a flashlight on one side of the car and run to the other side, and kneel. The cars block the light pretty well, forming a pretty good ambush area for unsuspecting cult gangsters. If I cannot avoid a day time battle, I use plenty of smoke grenades when in the open.

If the enemy is alien (or monsters for that matter), the night vision is usually against my agents, thus I chose to fight during the day. Smoke grenades are good for when running across open fields. But once the tanks are available they are good at "tanking" fire (or drawing reaction fire) for essentially all guns but heavy plasma and such. These aliens were priority targets for my tritanium grenades. If I cannot avoid a night battle in this case I throw flashlights around to lit the area.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: DevFried on April 21, 2019, 04:53:21 pm
Is it alright to use current piratez openxcomex launcher on xcom files? It has some additional features such as free storage display and splash screen on load.

----
Also holy crap just managed to repel my first bullfrogs early, on a private car no less since humvee was too slow to reach in time. I don't think I could've done that if I didn't have heavy machine gun and a lucky spawn in the corner while frogs had to come to me. So I sprayed them with hmg, while throwing tons of dynamite on them, then switched to a second hmg as well. Luckily my agents managed to tank through some spits and the only one frog that was close decided to charge in and missed. Nevertheless, it was still pretty intense, and unfortunately one civ got hit by one of my dynamites, but most of them survived since they were knocked out.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: NuclearStudent on April 22, 2019, 09:53:44 am
Is it a bug that XCOM murdering a civilian only gives -2 points?

because, you know, perverse incentives...
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 23, 2019, 10:26:15 pm
Is it a bug that XCOM murdering a civilian only gives -2 points?

because, you know, perverse incentives...

Ummm... Which one? :)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: NuclearStudent on April 26, 2019, 09:16:37 pm
Ummm... Which one? :)

Scratch that bug report.

I feel like I saw a -2 for civilians killed in an after-mission briefing. But when I tested a terror mission in battle mode, I properly got -50 for killing a civilian.

I'm doubting my own memory now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Ciruil on May 05, 2019, 06:07:01 am
I researched "Using staff of heart grip" but my agents can't using it in battle (still they can using flame glove). Is this a bug or i missed something?

Also i got alien infiltration mission in USA on march 1999 (and all ships has got observators in crew). Thats grasy, did i was must rushed interceptors researching from beginning?). Failed shooting down any ships, destroyed appeared alien base but lost country. As i understanding is no way to return country, isn,t it? UFOpaedia says: "When a country is successfully infiltrated, an alien base will be instantly created in or near the country. Always search for the alien base after the second Battleship. And once you know that the base is there, you have several options available to you." What kind of several options, just destroying or robbing base and landed supply ships?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Lohland on May 05, 2019, 07:51:14 am
Also i got alien infiltration mission in USA on march 1999 (and all ships has got observators in crew). Thats grasy, did i was must rushed interceptors researching from beginning?). Failed shooting down any ships, destroyed appeared alien base but lost country. As i understanding is no way to return country, isn,t it? UFOpaedia says: "When a country is successfully infiltrated, an alien base will be instantly created in or near the country. Always search for the alien base after the second Battleship. And once you know that the base is there, you have several options available to you." What kind of several options, just destroying or robbing base and landed supply ships?

As far as I know, no. The only way I know is to knock down the UFO before completing the mission. Well, or before the end of the month to fix the save.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Ciruil on May 05, 2019, 08:02:17 am
Well, or before the end of the month to fix the save.
What exactly i must fix in save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Lohland on May 05, 2019, 08:21:13 am
What exactly i must fix in save?

In the save find your country. There will be a list of deductions for the month. In the captured country, the line “pact ...” is added. Here it must be removed.

P.S. In a country that has already left the council, this did not work. You need to delete the line before the final message at the end of the month. More precisely, the country has ceased to be listed captured, but did not give more money
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on May 05, 2019, 09:35:36 am
As i understanding is no way to return country, isn,t it?
As far as I know, no. The only way I know is to knock down the UFO before completing the mission. Well, or before the end of the month to fix the save.
What exactly i must fix in save?

You might want to check the 'allowCountriesToCancelAlienPact' variable in the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 05, 2019, 01:31:30 pm
I researched "Using staff of heart grip" but my agents can't using it in battle (still they can using flame glove). Is this a bug or i missed something?

Using Staff of Heart Grip requires psi training, as it's not a weapon but a psionic device. But you're right, it's completely unclear. I'll add an article to explain the case.

Also i got alien infiltration mission in USA on march 1999 (and all ships has got observators in crew). Thats grasy, did i was must rushed interceptors researching from beginning?). Failed shooting down any ships, destroyed appeared alien base but lost country. As i understanding is no way to return country, isn,t it? UFOpaedia says: "When a country is successfully infiltrated, an alien base will be instantly created in or near the country. Always search for the alien base after the second Battleship. And once you know that the base is there, you have several options available to you." What kind of several options, just destroying or robbing base and landed supply ships?

In the upcoming version this will be possible... But not easy :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: HT on May 05, 2019, 02:07:45 pm
In the upcoming version this will be possible... But not easy :)

Cool, although by the time you have to worry about aliens messing with your country income, you probably have workshops producing vendor trash to compensate.
I suppose that the next version (0.9) will be one of the final ones, right? Unless you follow the Piratez route and continue with 0.9.1a, 0.9.1b, 0.9.2a and so on.

By the way, are there rubber bullets available by now? I'm not sure if there are, but they should be a thing, seeing that Piratez's ones could be adapted here with minimal changes, and it would make perfect sense for your agents to use non-lethal ammo to capture suspects and such. Later on these would likely be surpassed by the dart guns, but that's expected.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Meridian on May 05, 2019, 02:30:35 pm
I suppose that the next version (0.9) will be one of the final ones, right? Unless you follow the Piratez route and continue with 0.9.1a, 0.9.1b, 0.9.2a and so on.

Next version is 0.9.9, not 0.9 :)

And yes, it will 100% go the piratez route of numbering, eventually reaching 0.9.9x9 and then it will shed the prefix and switch to just x9{a}{b}{c} :)
Isn't that the most natural thing?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 05, 2019, 03:59:34 pm
By the way, are there rubber bullets available by now? I'm not sure if there are, but they should be a thing, seeing that Piratez's ones could be adapted here with minimal changes, and it would make perfect sense for your agents to use non-lethal ammo to capture suspects and such. Later on these would likely be surpassed by the dart guns, but that's expected.

Not at the moment, but I'm considering them.

Next version is 0.9.9, not 0.9 :)

And yes, it will 100% go the piratez route of numbering, eventually reaching 0.9.9x9 and then it will shed the prefix and switch to just x9{a}{b}{c} :)
Isn't that the most natural thing?

If it was like this, it would be 0.9.8i. ;)
I really, really want to abandon this numbering theme (mostly at your encouragement), but I am just not ready for 1.0... So I'm stalling.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Finnik on May 06, 2019, 11:18:05 am
I think it does not really matter how to count versions. I should not stop you from releasing new versions, but I also don't understand people who stick to versions like 0.9.9.99.187, as they already have a working product. It is a special moment of releasing 1.0 version, but I don't think it's it that huge. If everything is working, and the mod is playable (it is not counting like alpha or beta version, it's released version that people play not for testing) it already deserves to be 1.0 impo. Also, I'd like to see versions 1.1 of XCF, or 1.2 (with an alternative ending, huh? ;))
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: R1dO on May 06, 2019, 02:43:42 pm
...
I really, really want to abandon this numbering theme (mostly at your encouragement), but I am just not ready for 1.0... So I'm stalling.

My 2.0 cents

Not only is 1.0 (just like 2.0) overrated, it also tend to attract attention from those with an unhealthy obsession for integer numbers.
This project is clearly a labor of love, I seriously doubt you would ever want to say: This is perfection, let's label it 1.0

So instead of fixating on some elaborate numbering scheme, why not opt for using the month/date of latest publication (e.g. 19.05).
You still deliver the same quality versions as before without having to worry about numbering semantics and peoples reaction on that.

And if the day arrives you feel it is finally worth to label it as 1.0 you can just as easy say: 21.08 is 1.0 :-)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Fiskun1 on May 06, 2019, 04:43:45 pm
R1dO
Well said!
I completely agree. 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: YM2612 on May 07, 2019, 06:00:20 pm
Aside from few shitty sprites like Mongorn, I'm really enjoying this mod. Thank you for all your hard work.

I have a question about sewers missions. I tried it twice and both times I've started trapped in a small room with no way out.
I tried to use High Explosives but it seems I can't blow up walls with it.
What I'm supposed to do there?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on May 07, 2019, 10:55:11 pm
The map blocks sometimes don't connect correctly (engine limitations iirc). I've run into the "HighEx can't blow up walls"-bug before. You should have access to a pickaxe - bring it and use it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 08, 2019, 09:23:50 pm
Okay, the next version will be 0.9.9 anyway... And then we'll see. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Keybounce on May 09, 2019, 09:49:37 am
Roughly how long until the next release? I noticed that you generally had a release about every 10-30 days, and it's been twice that now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 09, 2019, 10:48:27 am
Roughly how long until the next release? I noticed that you generally had a release about every 10-30 days, and it's been twice that now.

Hopefully next weekend.
Yes, it's been roughly two months since the last release, but it's not because the work has ceased; in fact it is the opposite, I can't remember when I was working this intensely on XCF. This update is just this huge, with Finnik's ADVENT stuff and extra missions etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: mrbiasha on May 09, 2019, 08:33:55 pm
Hey, that's really nice to hear! New releases are always welcome  :D Though, there's really no neeed to rush if more work means more content and more quality!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: NuclearStudent on May 10, 2019, 01:25:06 am
Two questions:

Will it be worth starting a new save for that new update? I'm only half a year into my current save, so it wouldn't be too big a loss for me.

What's the purpose of the flashlight? I don't recall what it actually does beyond an electroflare.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Eddie on May 10, 2019, 05:27:44 am
What's the purpose of the flashlight? I don't recall what it actually does beyond an electroflare.

Electroflares have a ligth radius of 9, while the flashlight has a light radius of 15. So the flashlight iluuminates a bigger area.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 10, 2019, 10:37:17 am
Two questions:

Will it be worth starting a new save for that new update? I'm only half a year into my current save, so it wouldn't be too big a loss for me.

It won't be necessary, the upcoming release isn't that focused on early game. But there are many nonetheless, like for example some weapon stats.

What's the purpose of the flashlight? I don't recall what it actually does beyond an electroflare.

It's:
- stronger
- not enabled by throwing
- a blunt weapon
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: krautbernd on May 10, 2019, 05:29:25 pm
...btw, do you have any plans of making the flashlight sprite actually look like a flashlight?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 11, 2019, 10:05:46 pm
...btw, do you have any plans of making the flashlight sprite actually look like a flashlight?

Hmm, doesn't it?

EDIT:
Version 0.9.9 has been released!~

0.9.9:
- Updated to the latest OXCE.
- New units: Alien Brain, Ethereal Keeper, Hybrid Scientist, Hybrid Diplomat, ADVENT Agent, ADVENT Soldier, Natasha Morozova, Mongorn King (all by Finnik), Pontiff of Apocalypse, Imp.
- New missions: Hybrid Hideout, Suspicious Clinic, Sinister Clinic, Alien Embassy, Hybrid Medium Convoy - Alien Embassy variant, Cyberweb Heist, Natasha Morozova's Hideout, The Gathering of Mongorns (all by Finnik), Barn of Gore, Tower of Apocalypse, Lair of Apocalypse, Robot Rampage.
- New weapons: Sonic Shotgun, Sonic Heavy Cannon, Photonic Spear, Natasha's Custom VSS (all by Finnik), Kukri (by Alex D), Golf Stick, Elerium Mine.
- New facility: Large Workshop (by Krautbernd).
- New craft equipment: Radar Extender, Radar Res Processor, Targeter.
- New Catacomb maps (by Dioxine).
- New battle music for some new missions.
- New Ufopaedia articles.
- New hybrid and dog names.
- New Ufopaedia images for Giant Spider variants (by Krautbernd).
- New paperdolls for dogs (by Kato Guardian) and the Cyberweb Robosphere (by Voidavatar).
- New icon for the overstun (by Augur).
- New floorobs for the Shadowbat (by Alex D) and the VSS (by Finnik).
- Countries lost to an alien pact can now be won back.
- Added Expeditions (land and sea).
- Enabled statistical bullet conservation.
- Enabled enforced storage limits and briefing music during equipment.
- Better Pedia pages on non-weapon craft systems.
- Improved some special palettes.
- Mars has (almost) daylight now.
- American deserts no longer have Arab civilians.
- Alien bases built during infiltration are placed close to the infiltrated country.
- AI can now pilot stuff.
- New attack animation for photonic melee weapons (by Finnik).
- Improvement graphics of hostile Hybrids.
- Deep Ones and Aquatoids now have something to say.
- Removed Chtonite Commanders from the minibases.
- Added a Bloodhound to the Syndicate Monster Lab.
- Mind Probe can now be researched more easily.
- EMP Grenade is now partially stopped by armor.
- All rifles have better aimed and snap shots, and better snap range.
- Sniper rifles have better snap range.
- Sonic weapons are now manufacturable, and heavier.
- Producing Mrrshan Rifle and its ammo no longer depends on Pulse Weapons.
- Fusion Torch now deals 50-200% damage.
- Some SMGs have multi-bullet snaps now.
- Rebalanced the pitchfork.
- Muckstar's discharge no longer causes wounds.
- Rebalanced early medical items.
- Rebalanced some cult loot.
- Flying Suit no longer has backpack space (replaced with a jetpack).
- Brainer now has less armor but also has a force shield.
- David Vincent is now player controlled.
- "Trouble in Ski Resort" now starts in a house.
- In Mansion Defense, your agents no longer start on the roof.
- "The Root of All Evil" music is quieter now, because you people can't handle good bass drop.
- Expanded Osiron loot.
- Fixed the Aquatoid Office building.
- Hive terrain fixes.
- Cave terrain fixes (by Dioxine).
- Sewers terrain fixes (by Dioxine).
- Fixed alt text color.
- Fixed the Dimension X Wreck mission (wrong enemies).
- Fixed Into The Dark dependencies.
- Hit animation palette fixes.
- Fixed the Chryssalid Hives tileset.
- Fixed some Cyberweb Manufacturing stairs.
- Fixed M42's legs.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: banelinq on May 11, 2019, 10:21:02 pm
First of all I would like to thank you and all who work work on this HUGE project.
Big fan of original UFO and XCOM, this is pure gold for me.

I have one question. Can you add more music to the game? For example from Apocalypse, UFO Afteramth etc.
Or is there problem with licence? If so, is there way to add music by people? I found SOUND folder, but Im not sure if or when will music play.

Thx
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: Cynus_X on May 11, 2019, 11:25:06 pm
Quote
Enabled enforced storage limits
If I open a savegame with a base which has its storage capacity already exceeded, will it automatically delete items?

I have one question. Can you add more music to the game? For example from Apocalypse, UFO Afteramth etc.
Or is there problem with licence? If so, is there way to add music by people? I found SOUND folder, but Im not sure if or when will music play.
Thx

As far as I know, without changing any codes, you can just add mp3 to the Sound folder, and change the musicfilename to the corresponding file. If you want to add music to Geoscape, you still have slot GMGEO4 till GMGEO9 open.

If you are still open for music suggestions, I have 2 from Frank Klepacki:
C&C - "Rain in the Night"
C&C Tiberiun Sun - "Dusk hour"

These are sound tracks that really work well with this genre IMHO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 11, 2019, 11:42:31 pm
First of all I would like to thank you and all who work work on this HUGE project.
Big fan of original UFO and XCOM, this is pure gold for me.

What can I say - thank you!

I have one question. Can you add more music to the game? For example from Apocalypse, UFO Afteramth etc.
Or is there problem with licence? If so, is there way to add music by people? I found SOUND folder, but Im not sure if or when will music play.

Thx

Sure, but more music means much more MBs (music is easily the heaviest part of the mod), so I need to be careful. I do plan to add some Geoscape tracks, though.

If I open a savegame with a base which has its storage capacity already exceeded, will it automatically delete items?

No, but you will have to sell some.

And thanks for the suggestions!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: HT on May 11, 2019, 11:51:27 pm
That was released faster than expected. Yay! Gave it a quick spin, it seems there's lot of new stuff, including many more shielded enemies... While your guys are still short of that. Shame.

Also, is it a bug, or is it intentional that the Debug Mode in Battlescape doesn't automatically regenerate your TU and Energy?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: Meridian on May 11, 2019, 11:53:47 pm
Also, is it a bug, or is it intentional that the Debug Mode in Battlescape doesn't automatically regenerate your TU and Energy?

Intentional.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: banelinq on May 12, 2019, 02:23:54 pm
Sound/music could be additional "pack" to this mod downloadable separately.

I would suggest:
Xenonauts - Main menu
Xenonauts - Ground Combat 2(night)

Gorky 17 - start menu theme
Gorky 17 - port

X-COM Apocalypse - Alien Cry (almos whole soundtrack is great)

UFO Aftermath - Geoscape 3
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: Thunderwing280 on May 12, 2019, 04:18:52 pm
Can flashbangs knockout a enemy completely or only reduce reaction fire?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: krautbernd on May 12, 2019, 10:15:00 pm
@Solarius
Haven't tried out the new version (yet), but holy cow, that's some changelog. Appreciate the work you're putting into this :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 12, 2019, 10:20:23 pm
Can flashbangs knockout a enemy completely or only reduce reaction fire?

No, they don't cause actual stun damage.

@Solarius
Haven't tried out the new version (yet), but holy cow, that's some changelog. Appreciate the work you're putting into this :D

Thanks! We were working hard. :)
(Bugfix version soon...  :P)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9: They Live!
Post by: BoToJu on May 13, 2019, 02:34:25 am
Well, Mr. Solarius Scorch ... i did start playing your Mod some days ago. Everything went like expected. I handled every step and mission with my long year X-Com experience.  Then, on this one day, i've been driving with a private car to this one mission.

And it changed my view of X-Com completely ... this game can be in fact ... HILARIOUS  ;D. What mission i'm talking about? Well, it's the 'Haunted Mansion' and especially its background song! I should have really recorded myself, especially in the first seconds. Let me recap:
Mission starts, FRO_SPY.ogg plays.
Me: What the heck?! Did some tab open in the background? Stupid adds! But wait, Firefox isn't even open! And hello, adblock? No ... maybe my daughter is listening ... no she's not even in da house! It is ... the game?!
Finished the equipment, seeing the Battlescape: Uuuuhm ... it's the game, actually (In this moment i wish i could have made a picture of myself. I think it's my personal new record of pulling up one of my eyebrows)
Then i'm hearing "You're crazy in the coconut!". Well, am i? Or the developer? Is this just a 'mistake', a 'missplaced' private song? I am fighting ghosts! That's not funny! How can one destroy the seriousness and excitement of such a mission?
Me, running around with two agents equipped with just electric clubs. Still feeling overrun by ... i don't even know where to start. After just some couple of minutes: Waaaaaait ... those ghosts can't hurt or seriously injure me? Great! Let's "bzzzzzrp" them down!. Well, me - precisely 2 (two!) agents - vs. one dozen ghosts. You guessed it: What! Conscious again?! I'll get you!. After shouting this out after some turns and hearing "criminally insane" in this song, i realized that i never had such a hilarious or any near kind of mission in X-Com and my laugh flash began :D.

In the end, just want to say, that the idea of the 'Haunted Mansion' and its 'art/style' was just genius and an absolute refreshing variety :).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 13, 2019, 11:06:03 pm
Glad you enjoyed it! ;D
This mission was admittedly a bit of a stretch, but turned out fine. It's surprisingly popular with players.

EDIT:
Uploading 0.9.9a. Mostly bugfixes, so no special number or anything, but here is the full list of changes:

- Enabled Robosphere + Robosphere Autopsy Ufopaedia pictures (by Voidavatar).
- Rebalanced shotgun ranges.
- Rebalanced some sniper rifles.
- Suit recovers a bit more Energy.
- Shields give better Melee dodge.
- Improved Dodge values for armored vests and the like.
- Zombie Implant Investigation requires also Zombie Trooper Autopsy.
- Fixed MiB Base deployment.
- Fixed Werewolf weapon sound.
- Terrain fixes.
- Name fixes.

The file should be on the server in 30 minutes or so.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: karnaugh_map on May 14, 2019, 03:41:36 am
Agreed, what a great mod.

Best moment for me so far was while doing the Lo Wo hideout mission with the full intention of capturing the titular character, even were it to take a few casualties. A few turns in, my squad comes upon a Black Lotus Warrior, so I fire a single CAWS slug at him, and out of the empty field between my squad and the Warrior, I see Lo Wo eat the bullet and fall dead! I was not expecting to accidentally kill him!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Ciruil on May 14, 2019, 07:19:09 pm
- Improvement graphics of hostile Hybrids.
then I saw this I hoped hostile hybrids now has different appearance and I can saw who is worker, agent, specialist and etc., but no.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.8: X-Cool
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 14, 2019, 08:31:30 pm
then I saw this I hoped hostile hybrids now has different appearance and I can saw who is worker, agent, specialist and etc., but no.

Not yet, maybe in the future. But it's a start.
(Some hybrids are different, but only the special ones.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: tarkalak on May 18, 2019, 05:29:40 pm
Can you make an On\Off switch for the flashlight?

Well, apart from putting it in your pocket of course.  :)

Right now extra flashlights illuminate the starting position which is usually undesirable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Draykoth on May 19, 2019, 08:55:28 am
How are you supposed to progress in the MiB, advent and hybrid lines?

The Men in Black need a scientist, I only ever saw one defending David Vincent and didn't get the chance to capture one there, haven't come across any since.

Advent require I get one of them first, but I have no idea where they come from. Never seen them on any missions.

I'm deep into the hybrids, done every kind of mission for them, including cloning facilities, hybrid base, hybrid alien meeting, but there was nothing at any of those places I didn't already have from researching the supervisors. Where do I find hybrid brainers, diplomats, disguised hybrids, some kind of clinic for cloning?


On an unrelated note, the Large Workshop doesn't actually count as a workshop, only as work space. I removed all my small workshops to make the big one, now I can only build xcom psiclones and a few maintenance projects.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 19, 2019, 12:57:56 pm
Can you make an On\Off switch for the flashlight?

Well, apart from putting it in your pocket of course.  :)

Right now extra flashlights illuminate the starting position which is usually undesirable.

That's not exposed to modding. Maybe with scripts, but I have doubts.

How are you supposed to progress in the MiB, advent and hybrid lines?

The Men in Black need a scientist, I only ever saw one defending David Vincent and didn't get the chance to capture one there, haven't come across any since.

Advent require I get one of them first, but I have no idea where they come from. Never seen them on any missions.

I'm deep into the hybrids, done every kind of mission for them, including cloning facilities, hybrid base, hybrid alien meeting, but there was nothing at any of those places I didn't already have from researching the supervisors. Where do I find hybrid brainers, diplomats, disguised hybrids, some kind of clinic for cloning?

MiB are indeed hard to start at the moment. I probably will make them a little more active in the future, but for now, you must seize any opportunity to learn more about them.

ADVENT/advanced hybrids... Well how do you even know of their existence? :)
Anyway, if you have no idea where they are, it means you're doing okay in terms of controlling the planet...

On an unrelated note, the Large Workshop doesn't actually count as a workshop, only as work space. I removed all my small workshops to make the big one, now I can only build xcom psiclones and a few maintenance projects.

Indeed, this is a bug. Thanks, fixed!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Draykoth on May 19, 2019, 01:25:09 pm
Quote
ADVENT/advanced hybrids... Well how do you even know of their existence?

Excessive tech tree viewing ;P



Am I really supposed to deal with the Syndicate HQ with 5 dudes in barely any armor equipped with... a magnum? If a minotaur spawns anywhere near the start point, it's just over.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 19, 2019, 01:46:05 pm
Excessive tech tree viewing ;P

Did I mention I really don't like this thing? ;)

Am I really supposed to deal with the Syndicate HQ with 5 dudes in barely any armor equipped with... a magnum? If a minotaur spawns anywhere near the start point, it's just over.

You can take 8, Dragonfly is allowed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: krautbernd on May 19, 2019, 04:37:26 pm
On an unrelated note, the Large Workshop doesn't actually count as a workshop, only as work space. I removed all my small workshops to make the big one, now I can only build xcom psiclones and a few maintenance projects.

Thanks for the heads up, the entry was indeed missing since i never used the large version as a stand-alone facility :P

Sorry for the inconvenience  :-[
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Draykoth on May 20, 2019, 10:24:21 am
Ah, I had assumed syndicate HQ was concealable only for some reason, and had only loaded crap onto my pickup. I just dumped my entire inventory onto the dragonfly, and found it a lot easier with my psi operatives at full power :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 20, 2019, 12:14:08 pm
Yeah, things used to be simple when we only had concealable and non-concealable. But then a number of other possible setups appeared, making things complicated. I haven't found a way to better guide the player. Maybe make separate Pedia pages for beach gear, industrial gear etc.?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Draykoth on May 20, 2019, 01:18:44 pm
I always check the items for labor/beach/etc tags when I get them, and find it very clear what I can bring where. I had just made a mistake in thinking that particular mission was conceal only even though that wasn't stated anywhere
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Draykoth on May 20, 2019, 08:30:18 pm
It just now occurred to me the dragonfly is available for the Syndicate HQ because they fly it around themselves. Does that mean the Iron Fist can be used for that mission aswell?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2019, 12:08:38 pm
No, the Ironfist is an X-Com design, and pretty big too. The opposite of easily blending in. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Draykoth on May 21, 2019, 01:04:00 pm
Are they not using Iron fists as the "medium" craft when they're flying around with minotaurs? Or is that just a similar looking ship
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2019, 03:03:43 pm
No, they're unrelated. You are probably thinking of the Scarab, which indeed is somewhat similar to the Ironfist. (Scarab isn't available for X-Com, at least for now.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: VodkaBear on May 22, 2019, 12:43:32 pm
Since everyone just sharing their experience so here is mine:
Just started game, finished like 3-5 missions mainly with 1-2 humans\animals, looted 2-barrelled shotgun, bought some ammo for it. Another "common" alien treat mission and I see about 15 zombies around my 2 poor guys, instead of leaving immediately I've decided to give it a try. Well, that was long battle, 2 barreled shotgun really made this mission, when all ammo gone there was left about 5 zombies, thankfully I've brought combat knives too and final zombies were spread enough. 27 kills total, totally not what I've expected at the very beginning, but that was fun. In the next mission I've met muckstars and that was "okay, now I'm out of here", I like when conditions sometimes really force you to retreat and make to figure out tactics on next same battle based only on "I've got zapping shots in my face from nowhere, oh god", not only by afterbattle dissection research. Great mod so far, but power of some early game guns like mp5/m16 somewhat low for me even against weakest enemies, but I understood that it helps to survive me as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: krautbernd on May 22, 2019, 06:19:24 pm
Great mod so far, but power of some early game guns like mp5/m16 somewhat low for me even against weakest enemies, but I understood that it helps to survive me as well.
Unless something has changed, i personally found the MP5 quite dependable against eraly cultists. Zombies and everything with decent armor or resistance against kinetic damage is another matter, but that is what non-standard weapons are for.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: karnaugh_map on May 23, 2019, 03:49:41 am
IMO best weapon progression is : Colt .45/Magnum -> Mac10 -> CAWS AP, with a few specialty weapons on the side (BlackOps Minigun, Flare Gun, Black Ops Sniper Rifle).
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Ciruil on May 23, 2019, 05:35:44 am
IMO best weapon progression is : Colt .45/Magnum -> Mac10 -> CAWS AP, with a few specialty weapons on the side (BlackOps Minigun, Flare Gun, Black Ops Sniper Rifle).

My variant: any pistol>black ops pistol>smart magnum>until laser weapons...
Armor: protect vest whith shield>tritanium armor whith shield (to research it you need to capture landed UFO for alen alloys, i did it on ironman highest difficulty whith 2 agents, key to victory - run in any house and wait sectoids for meleeing, probally trasher shotgun may been effective in ranged combat. For opening trasher you need found and research light cannon).
For opening smart magnums you need to finish duratread factory mission, research source of durathread for open cyberweb faction, token and research any robot wrechages of cyberweb.

Smart magnums:
Disadvantages: low accurasy, need reloading/manufacturing speedloaders pretty often (put at least 4 speedloaders in soldiers inventory and take many speedloaders if soldiers run out of ammo).
Advantages: 50 damage of tritanium bullets per shot (!!!), fast firing (compensates low accuracy, not moved agent can make up to 6 shots for turn), powerful owerwatch, one handed (allows using thith shield)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: VodkaBear on May 23, 2019, 12:38:07 pm
Actually I have captured landed ufo on pure luck landing just 2 hours from my base on 1st or 2nd month, but it seems I have to research many things before ufo-related stuff appear. For now bolt-action rifle one of the best choices as I already facing some tougher red dawn and  black lotus guys on hideout missions who often carry ak\m16 as well as some body armor. I have 15 scientists, building another special lab, but progress of research is so slow, but I'm trying to research everything, as I dont want to spoil "right" way of researches for myself and it looks like I'm behind the enemy on quality of armament.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: tarkalak on May 23, 2019, 01:01:48 pm
From the early rifles I like the FN FAL.
Damage:28+ 0.10*ACCURACY
With 100 aim agent it is equal to the Magnum. It can do 1 Aimed + 1 Snap or 3 Snap shots.
Th FN FAL's Snap shot has accuracy close to the Magnum's Aimed shots at medium range and can Full Auto at point blank.

The AK 47 and 5.56 NATO rifles lack stopping power. The 10% armor ignore from the 5.56 NATO round compensates for 2-3 damage points at best and doesn't compensate their low power. The last two updates had upped their accuracy, so they may be usable still.

The Light Pistol is the worst (or close to the worst) pistol in game. It's only redeeming quality is that you can bring it on Sporting Events. The crossbow is also Sports-capable.

The Snubnose Pistol is small 1x1 tile pistol that I use as a side arm for agents that ran out of space for a proper sidearm.

The Magnum is king of course. May be it should need Tough Creature Autopsy for Acquisition and the BlackOps variant should be under Premium.
The Desert Eagle is similar (1 damage less, 2% more accurate).

From the SMGs the MAC 10 is good (but $500 per clip is expensive). The others lack stopping power against armoured opponents. The Shotguns do better against unarmoured ones and have better effective range.

I like the SKS better than the Hunting rifle for my early long range gun. And it has that bayonet for some extremely close range poking. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: HT on May 23, 2019, 05:18:01 pm
You know, I'm still disappointed that we still haven't got a proper chainsaw weapon to be used against zombies and other supernatural stuff. With all of the UAC stuff lying around and these demonic monsters, a chainsaw, no matter how good or bad it is as a weapon, would be quite fitting to use.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2019, 06:18:09 pm
You know, I'm still disappointed that we still haven't got a proper chainsaw weapon to be used against zombies and other supernatural stuff. With all of the UAC stuff lying around and these demonic monsters, a chainsaw, no matter how good or bad it is as a weapon, would be quite fitting to use.

OK, I see no problem with adding a chainsaw.
If you also want better chainsaws than the basic mundane one, please put ideas forth.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: HT on May 23, 2019, 06:34:52 pm
Thanks!

As for upgrades, there's not much to do except having better technology behind the saws, using stuff like the double-chainsaw from Doom 64 as an upgrade to the regular, mundane one, followed by the Auto-Ax of Piratez! if you want a late-game example. There's already an end-game unwieldy melee weapon of sorts that works as a gun in the form of the plasma torch, so something akin to "plasma chainsaws" is probably something not practical enough for X-Com to bother.

Lastly: What about a chainsaw reinforced with an energy field for extra cutting power? While it is something that sounds taken from WH40k (which it is), I suppose it could be put ingame as a very rare alien weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9a: They Live!
Post by: krautbernd on May 23, 2019, 06:45:42 pm
Actually I have captured landed ufo on pure luck landing just 2 hours from my base on 1st or 2nd month, but it seems I have to research many things before ufo-related stuff appear.

Not to spoil anything, but you're probably far better off selling almost all of the UFO stuff to build a second base wiht a second HQ to get more early research done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2019, 10:29:57 pm
Version 0.9.9b has been released.
- Updated to the latest OXCE.
- New countries: Portugal, Iceland, Ireland, Poland, Ukraine, Mongolia, Mexico, Cuba, Indonesia, New Zealand, Turkey, Israel, Argentina, Iran, Finland, Libia, South Korea.
- Many new cities.
- Sun never sets on Dimension X now (as the planet is tidally locked to its star).
- Bank Robbery (Assassin Clans) now grants a $1 mln reward, if won.
- Overhauled civilian entries and added their IDs for research.
- Boosted Virtual HQ to 10 research stations (but is more expensive).
- Bulletproof Coat gives some basic protection against lasers (because it's shiny).
- Arrow is slower, but has better acceleration and is a little tougher.
- Tritanium clips are now researchable without Tritanium tech (but not manufacturable).
- Arasaka 3000 and Asuka 4000 extra damage now scales with Reactions, not Firing Accuracy.
- Arasaka 3000 has slower snaps.
- Minimi ignores some armor (like M16).
- Made the Pickaxe more sane.
- Bulletproof Coat grants +5 Reactions.
- New Dimension X palette (by Кнроптл).
- New background for League missions.
- Fixed and expanded some name files. Flag fixes (by Kato).
- Fixed a crash on Beyond The Doom Portal.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: HT on May 24, 2019, 10:47:06 am
And so, the dance of letters begins!  ;)

To be fair, your mod doesn't have an absurdly large amount of content planned nor multiple endings so, once the "arcs" are finished, then... You're pretty much almost done.

Speaking of Arcs: I read that there's a new feature with the engine that allows that ala tv show. Will you be using this, Solarius?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2019, 02:49:43 pm
And so, the dance of letters begins!  ;)

To be fair, your mod doesn't have an absurdly large amount of content planned nor multiple endings so, once the "arcs" are finished, then... You're pretty much almost done.

This was mostly a bugfix release, there was little actual new content. So the "small" numbering was pretty much the only logical option. But I hope to move to 1.0 ASAP.

Speaking of Arcs: I read that there's a new feature with the engine that allows that ala tv show. Will you be using this, Solarius?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I mean, I know which feature, but how would it make the mod more "á la TV show"? Please explain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: HT on May 24, 2019, 03:04:37 pm
I have no idea what you are talking about. I mean, I know which feature, but how would it make the mod more "á la TV show"? Please explain.

I didn't explain myself well. Sorry.

IIRC, the "arc feature" of the engine lets you automatically enable new research stuff and events at the start of certain months, right?

The idea was to see if you could use this in your mod somehow because I was curious about how exactly it worked, but I think it's not necessary since you progress the game by researching certain topics, which activates new factions popping up next month and so on.

By the way, do you think my ideas for the chainsaw I mention in a previous post are feasible?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Mr. Mister on May 24, 2019, 04:25:31 pm
Can 0.9.9a be upgraded to 0.9.9b mid campaign (asking because you've added countries and I'm not sure if that creates any incompatibility), and EDIT: I'm reposting this below, since this was my first post and it took the mod approval long enough as to be buried in the previous page (first question was already answered).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2019, 04:38:55 pm
OK, I get it now. Well, this is a new feature, so I've never planned around it, and I have no special ideas about using it now. It might happen if I think I need it for something.

Your idea about chainsaws are sound. I will add a mundane saw and probably a Doomy saw, and then we'll see.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: erenoth02 on May 24, 2019, 05:56:26 pm
Do you need to start a new game with the latest update? or will a save file from the previous update run relatively well? I'm up to mission #401 but I think my progression is halted due to that "Doom" error youve fixed with the latest update.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2019, 08:50:02 pm
Do you need to start a new game with the latest update? or will a save file from the previous update run relatively well? I'm up to mission #401 but I think my progression is halted due to that "Doom" error youve fixed with the latest update.

There's no need to start a new campaign, but you won't see the new countries if you don't start a new game.

Or you can just take the attached file and copy its content into your save, under the "countries:" section.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Mr. Mister on May 24, 2019, 11:59:25 pm
(Reposting since my first post had to wait for mod approval and it got buried in the previous page): Have you considered unlocking the ability to buy some ammo types before you unlock the ability to buy the weapons they're for? I know that opening ammo boxes partially fills this role, but I find it plausible that say you could get approval for buying 5.56mm NATO after researching a looted M16 even if you don't have the contacts to buy more M16s yet; it'd add extra value to these looted weapons because they become usable in missions but cannot be easily replaced yet if you lose them.

Also, take this with a grain of salt, but coming from someone who played XCOM Files for the first time without having looked at any playthrough: Maybe you should specify somewhere in the starting UFOpedia reports that your first goal as a mission is to prove your worth to the UN by presenting an anomalous creature's autopsy to them (which I do admit makes a lot of sence insofar as you proving XCOM is needed), since that (and something else I forget) is what unlocks the First Report or whatever research topic, and there are plenty of research topics to prioritize over any autopsy if you don't know that.

In any case, sick mod yo. Having never played UFO Defense before (but lots of Long War and some X-Division, its Xenonauts equivalent), I first tried vanilla and Area 51, but found the game very overwhelming on soldier and inventory management from the get-go. I'm glad to tell you that XCOM Files is much, MUCH more easily approachable to a first-time UFO Defense/OpenXcom player due to the reduced stress that is starting with only two soldiers per mission and much less viable equipment. Thanks for all your work over the years, it has truly made the universe a better place.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: tarkalak on May 25, 2019, 10:23:47 am
The creature autopsy and Cultist interrogated are described in the General strategy (or similar) entry, though they are vague.

If you middle click on the science topics you can see their prerequisites and what they unlock and can also search through the technology tree. It is a bit spoiling but it is hard to navigate what is needed for what without that
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: tarkalak on May 25, 2019, 08:49:33 pm
I just realized something. When you interrogate a Farmer he either talks about:
1. *redacted* aliens *redacted.*
2. Nothing interesting and the doctor gives you pills.
3. He talks about his favorite Axe.
4. He talks about his favorite Pitchfork.
5. He can only remember his wife's heavy hand and your staff is so impressed they put a "Female Farmer Combat analysis" with the other enemies.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: karnaugh_map on May 26, 2019, 06:49:47 pm
The creature autopsy and Cultist interrogated are described in the General strategy (or similar) entry, though they are vague.

It literally says "we must capture or dissect such a creature", can't be more direct than that!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: tarkalak on May 26, 2019, 07:31:05 pm
It literally says "we must capture or dissect such a creature", can't be more direct than that!

:)

It could be "we must research a creature corpse", but that is too direct for me.

By the way, the "we must capture or" is incorrect. Examining a living creature does not replace dissection in the research tree.

Also not all creatures work. I once had a Spitter mission first and that guy did not qualify for Strange Creature Autopsy.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: karnaugh_map on May 26, 2019, 08:00:26 pm
Spitters are too strange.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 27, 2019, 11:20:07 am
Have you considered unlocking the ability to buy some ammo types before you unlock the ability to buy the weapons they're for? I know that opening ammo boxes partially fills this role, but I find it plausible that say you could get approval for buying 5.56mm NATO after researching a looted M16 even if you don't have the contacts to buy more M16s yet; it'd add extra value to these looted weapons because they become usable in missions but cannot be easily replaced yet if you lose them.

I'm afraid that would make weapons acquisition too inconsequential. Once you can buy the ammo, uying weapons doesn't matter that much, since you always have at least one.

Also, take this with a grain of salt, but coming from someone who played XCOM Files for the first time without having looked at any playthrough: Maybe you should specify somewhere in the starting UFOpedia reports that your first goal as a mission is to prove your worth to the UN by presenting an anomalous creature's autopsy to them (which I do admit makes a lot of sence insofar as you proving XCOM is needed), since that (and something else I forget) is what unlocks the First Report or whatever research topic, and there are plenty of research topics to prioritize over any autopsy if you don't know that.

As above, it was mentioned somewhere already. But I will check that Spitter problem.

In any case, sick mod yo. Having never played UFO Defense before (but lots of Long War and some X-Division, its Xenonauts equivalent), I first tried vanilla and Area 51, but found the game very overwhelming on soldier and inventory management from the get-go. I'm glad to tell you that XCOM Files is much, MUCH more easily approachable to a first-time UFO Defense/OpenXcom player due to the reduced stress that is starting with only two soldiers per mission and much less viable equipment. Thanks for all your work over the years, it has truly made the universe a better place.

Thanks a lot!
And yeah, I made XCF relatively approachable at the start... Then it gets worse at times.

I just realized something. When you interrogate a Farmer he either talks about:
1. *redacted* aliens *redacted.*
2. Nothing interesting and the doctor gives you pills.
3. He talks about his favorite Axe.
4. He talks about his favorite Pitchfork.
5. He can only remember his wife's heavy hand and your staff is so impressed they put a "Female Farmer Combat analysis" with the other enemies.

Yes... That's pretty much it.
Your point? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: tarkalak on May 27, 2019, 04:08:43 pm
I'm afraid that would make weapons acquisition too inconsequential. Once you can buy the ammo, uying weapons doesn't matter that much, since you always have at least one.

As above, it was mentioned somewhere already. But I will check that Spitter problem.

Thanks a lot!
And yeah, I made XCF relatively approachable at the start... Then it gets worse at times.

Yes... That's pretty much it.
Your point? :)

The Spitter is an alien, not a creature. The one I captured died due to lack of Alien Contamination. I think that costed me 1-2 agents. :(

The Abomination also isn't listed in the Strange Creature Autopsy.

About the farmer: I found the 5th interrogation funny. :)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9b: Council of the Funding Nations
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 28, 2019, 10:34:38 pm
The Spitter is an alien, not a creature. The one I captured died due to lack of Alien Contamination. I think that costed me 1-2 agents. :(

Spitter indeed wasn't on the list. Thanks, fixed.

The Abomination also isn't listed in the Strange Creature Autopsy.

The Abomination looks fine, though.

About the farmer: I found the 5th interrogation funny. :)

:)



EDIT: 0.9.9c has been released.

- 8 new faces.
- Improved paperdolls' toes (based on Dioxine's work).
- Improved Syndicate Supersoldier's paperdoll (by Dioxine).
- Improved sewers entrance (by Dioxine).
- Fixed a crash on The Hollow Man article.
- Fixed death tiles in ADVENT_MEDICINE.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: tarkalak on May 30, 2019, 11:24:24 am
I am not sure if this is the suggestion page, so I will put this here. 2 ideas for night combat.

1. A flashlight that works like a gun (sort of). You shoot with it and whatever is hit is illuminated until the end of the alien turn. The same as throwing a flare, but this "flare" disappears at the end of the turn.

2. Headlight inventory slot. A small 1x1 slot on the head where the player can equip flares, headlight, night vision goggles, etc. that would illuminate the surroundings as if they are held at hand.
I am sure that I have seen a helmet with a strapped magazine so it doesn't need to be flashlight only.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 30, 2019, 11:40:19 am
Sorry, I am not aware of any engine features which would allow these effects. Probably not even scripting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: Bobit on May 30, 2019, 03:49:12 pm
I would be surprised if #1 was difficult. There's no script to end of turn remove thrown items? Don't sectoid plasma guns basically already do this?

#2 is much more difficult, yeah, and has almost no advantage over armor with built-in vision items.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 30, 2019, 04:57:08 pm
Well, if it's a gun, then it can't lob a flare. A flare is not ammo, it is a different item type.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: Bobit on May 31, 2019, 02:01:28 am
True. But I don't think he meant the literal flare item. Just a projectile that lights an area.

Btw, I don't think the game is that difficult early. You lose a lot of guys, sure, but the chance of losing the campaign is near zero. Melee monsters can oneshot your entire squad on the first turn, which is a huge threat, but they're not as profitable so more evaccable, and most other missions are pretty winnable. I also think kevlar first is more important than vans because getting oneshot is way too common and it can frequently block a shot entirely. Meanwhile armored shields block like 80% of bullets... it's pretty absurd, which makes sense for a "low-tech" game.

I do think it's funny how much retrieving a single alien corpse can unlock a lab which can result in a 50% tech boost. And yet since the aliens oneshot all your guys, have a very tiny window for landing, perfect reflexes, and enough hp to survive a couple shots, this is actually the most difficult early game goal.

Love the mod and all the quirks above. Only real complaint is it can get a bit grindy against high-hp low-threat enemies like zombies or some outposts you out-tech. But I prefer short but randomized/replayable games in general, unlike a lot of XCOM players.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: tarkalak on May 31, 2019, 12:34:06 pm
I would be surprised if #1 was difficult. There's no script to end of turn remove thrown items? Don't sectoid plasma guns basically already do this?

#2 is much more difficult, yeah, and has almost no advantage over armor with built-in vision items.

Well, if it's a gun, then it can't lob a flare. A flare is not ammo, it is a different item type.

1. I was thinking about having a searchlight of sort. You use it to illuminate an area briefly and then it's off (after the turn). You can have one guy with a shield and a powerful flashlight that illuminates the enemies and draws fire while the rest stay in the dark. That is a bit like night naval combat during WWII.

This idea came to me when I shot a street lamp in a night mission. After the lamp was destroyed, the area stayed lit, but next turn it was dark.

2. Having a slot for night vision, etc. will allow to have those capabilities separate from the armor. It can be done by having SUIT, SUIT with headlamp, SUIT with night vision goggles, etc, but it would be too much clutter to add that to every type of armor, and not that much useful..

3. On a side note the ability to shut down the landing craft's lights would also be great.

The DRAGONFLY for example has a neat dark area near the ramp and under the craft with lights that illuminate the area around this. That is great until you need to move beyond the dark area.

I should put these suggestions in the general suggestions forum as they are beyond the scope of a mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2019, 01:42:12 pm
Yeah, I think these ideas, while sensible, should be directed to OXCE developers.
With what we have now, the best/most approximate option or a signal flare is the flare pistol, which simply fires an incendiary projectile and doesn't create any objects. And for the searchlight, you can just put it on your belt to "turn it off".
Come to think of it, you could also make a weapon which shoots a special unit which shines brightly. But it would be pretty quirky, I don't like this idea much.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: tarkalak on May 31, 2019, 03:20:53 pm
Or there could be a self destroying flare that has a timer (like regular grenades). It illuminates the are until the timer runs off and then harmlessly detonates.

For the craft, the lights can be made into invisible and blind "turrets" (Like in 40k but without guns) that have a special non-throwable flare in their hands. The player can switch it ON/OFF by moving it between the "turret"'s pocket and hand slots.

But both of the above sound very quirky and clumsy so I put them here as a thought experiment rather than real suggestions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2019, 05:11:41 pm
Well, even these quirky solutions "could be" only in the sense that it might be coded in, just pretty much any feature. A flare and a grenade are completely different types of  items, even though they share some characteristics (they are thrown, they have counters).
Okay, the "turret" idea would work. But it'd VERY quirky in how the player interacts with this unit. For example, it would need inventory, so this "lamp" could also be dropped...
But for thought experiments, these are pretty clever. ;)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: karnaugh_map on June 10, 2019, 05:20:18 am
I would like to suggest some sort of advanced combat fire extinguisher item, like a fire-foam grenade. It could perhaps be implemented as a no-prime instant smoke grenade with a 1-tile radius that also has flash-bang effects to simulate being covered in foam. Them fire extinguishers are heavy and slow!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9c: Back to The Sewers
Post by: krautbernd on June 10, 2019, 11:33:44 am
I made a Fire Blanket mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6458.0.html) for OXCE some while ago, it should still be fully compatible with XCF. Otherwise smoke grenades should also be able to put out fires (albeit only on ground tiles iirc).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2019, 11:23:26 pm
OK, I am not against such an idea. I'll think of a fire extinguishing grenade.

EDIT: 0.9.9d has been released.

- New Dossiers: Baba Donka (by Tarkalak), Arastoo Namdar (by The Third Curry), Gabriel 'The Bone Father' Nadeau (by Dirty Skeletons Done Dirt Cheap).
- New unit: Samael of Apocalypse.
- New mission: Project Samael.
- New weapon: Staff of Samael.
- New armors: Heavy Tactical Suit, Heavy Tritanium Suit.
- New bigobs for natural weapons.
- New death and attack sounds for some units.
- Improved Ufopaedia background (by Kato).
- Fixed Slovak and Czech name lists (by Bartojan).
- Fixed a crash on selling X-Rats.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Mr. Mister on June 14, 2019, 02:07:27 am
Everything compatible with current saves I assume?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: HT on June 14, 2019, 05:18:26 pm
Yay, a new update! We're getting close to the final release at last! Unfortunately I'm afraid the air combat is still not as good as the rest of the game, unless there have been major changes compared with the previous versions.

What's the point of the Heavy Tactical Suit and the Alloy-improved variant? What use can they have in your opinion? The first one seems to be quite bulky and protective yes, but the Tactical Vest with shield gives slightly more protection, while the improved Titranium variant is logically way better, especially against bullet weaponry, but it's still too heavy compared to the regular Alloy-based armors.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 16, 2019, 01:37:51 pm
Everything compatible with current saves I assume?

Yes of course. Sorry for the delay!

Yay, a new update! We're getting close to the final release at last! Unfortunately I'm afraid the air combat is still not as good as the rest of the game, unless there have been major changes compared with the previous versions.

The air game in X-Com as such is underwhelming. I don't know how it improve it. I don't even like it enough to be willing to work on it, sorry.

What's the point of the Heavy Tactical Suit and the Alloy-improved variant? What use can they have in your opinion? The first one seems to be quite bulky and protective yes, but the Tactical Vest with shield gives slightly more protection, while the improved Titranium variant is logically way better, especially against bullet weaponry, but it's still too heavy compared to the regular Alloy-based armors.

Because the vest with shield is one-handed (duh), so only fit for a very specialized unit. And the tritanium vest is good if you get the tritanium, which is far from guaranteed.
...and that's assuming these two are inherently better, which is a risky statement if you consider resistances.
This armour was actually introduced as a way to plug a very real hole, not something I added just because I wanted to (which admittedly happens sometimes).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Draykoth on June 18, 2019, 01:08:00 pm
What is the E-115 damage type? I mean, it's elerium obviously, but I have never seen a weapon of any kind do that damage. Most elerium based weapons are either plasma guns or concussive explosives, do any weapons actually do pure elerium damage?

I ask because I'm preparing for Cydonia, and I noticed Chryssalids have a MASSIVE weakness to it, unlike every other enemy, who appear to be immune.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 18, 2019, 02:00:18 pm
Sorry, such weapons do not exist yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on June 18, 2019, 02:02:40 pm
Not sure if this is the right to ask, this is proably solely related to OXCE, but is it possible to restrict agent faces? There are some that i find very unfitting for a variety of reasons and i'd like to remove them from the pool. Can i simply delte them from the mod folder? Where/how are they defined?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Meridian on June 18, 2019, 02:26:51 pm
Not sure if this is the right to ask, this is proably solely related to OXCE, but is it possible to restrict agent faces? There are some that i find very unfitting for a variety of reasons and i'd like to remove them from the pool. Can i simply delte them from the mod folder? Where/how are they defined?

Unfortunately no, there is no easy way to restrict agent faces.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 18, 2019, 08:46:56 pm
Please send feedback. I am not Blizzard, I can be reasoned with :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: SpacePigs on June 20, 2019, 10:59:45 am
I just want to say thank you for this amazing mod. On tuesday I lost a skymarshall (filled up with the best agents and best gear (cyber armor with UAC rifles) I could muster to take on a downed small ufo) to an alien fighter. It was the first time I encountered one and I was unable to flee from it. Afterwards I started a new anno 1800 campaign but here I am stunning gang members with my two man team today.
This run I'm selling all the plasma gear I get as it takes way to long to get to that research path, it's probably better to have the funds for new bases etc.

tldr: your mod is better than anno 1800 and I love anno, do you take donations?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Mr. Mister on June 20, 2019, 12:45:29 pm
What is the E-115 damage type? I mean, it's elerium obviously, but I have never seen a weapon of any kind do that damage. Most elerium based weapons are either plasma guns or concussive explosives, do any weapons actually do pure elerium damage?

Actually, going by the way resistance and vulnerability to it are distributed, I cannot help but assume that it is meant to be a damage type done not by elirium, but to elirium, so elirium-infused/based/armored creatures are the only ones vulnerable to it (after it is implemented). Am I warm, Meridian Solarius?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 20, 2019, 05:22:47 pm
I just want to say thank you for this amazing mod. On tuesday I lost a skymarshall (filled up with the best agents and best gear (cyber armor with UAC rifles) I could muster to take on a downed small ufo) to an alien fighter. It was the first time I encountered one and I was unable to flee from it. Afterwards I started a new anno 1800 campaign but here I am stunning gang members with my two man team today.
This run I'm selling all the plasma gear I get as it takes way to long to get to that research path, it's probably better to have the funds for new bases etc.

Thanks for the kind words. Sorry about the shoot down, but at least you should get all your agents back (they normally jump out with parachutes, Air Force One-style, unless something goes terribly wrong for someone).

I never really played Anno, but have been planning to for quite some time. It looks pretty swell.

tldr: your mod is better than anno 1800 and I love anno, do you take donations?

Yeah, I have a Patreon site, thank you for asking: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=2957095

Actually, going by the way resistance and vulnerability to it are distributed, I cannot help but assume that it is meant to be a damage type done not by elirium, but to elirium, so elirium-infused/based/armored creatures are the only ones vulnerable to it (after it is implemented). Am I warm, Meridian Solarius?

Yes, precisely!
It is basically a chemical agent which causes catastrophic overload of Elerium molecules. Which is commonly found in some aliens, such as Chryssalids or Zombies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Mr. Mister on June 20, 2019, 07:11:53 pm
You could rename it DeElerium, DElerium or Delerium damage both for clarity and for the pun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Bobit on June 21, 2019, 12:27:19 am
Or anti-elerium. Or just have a ufopaedia page for it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2019, 07:50:54 pm
Deleterium!
:V
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: LuigiWhatif on June 25, 2019, 06:44:24 am
How do I use the decrypted embassy key?  Do I just bring one with me when going to the embassy?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 27, 2019, 08:01:46 pm
How do I use the decrypted embassy key?  Do I just bring one with me when going to the embassy?

Yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: LuigiWhatif on June 28, 2019, 09:21:25 am
Thank you.

By the way, what are the odds on the zombie infestation with infectors?  I missed catching one on the first two that appeared and I caught one on the third but that wasn't until I was already building my advanced laboratory.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 29, 2019, 11:15:34 am
Thank you.

By the way, what are the odds on the zombie infestation with infectors?  I missed catching one on the first two that appeared and I caught one on the third but that wasn't until I was already building my advanced laboratory.

There are four subtypes of this mission (by terrain), 3% each to happen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: _Brain322 on June 30, 2019, 09:21:12 pm
(I actually created account here, only for reply in this thread :D )

You did a very amazing job, I am really stunned by the work you have done. But I kind of hate UFO spam and +30 enemy missions in your mod, and btw is porting TftD maps was THAT necessary ? (in terms of maze-like levels.) and some missions feels like a chore sometimes. But I really like the variety of missions\instruments that you give to player. Progress ladder is mind blowing and you really feeling that you accomplish something, when you reserch smething. Keep it up !  :D

Also, do you want to implement Enforcers in your mod, in the future ? (from X-Com Enforcer) I thought it is good idea, but unfortunately as far as I know, the guy who made Enforcer Mod are not shows here, and never update his mod since.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 02, 2019, 01:02:53 pm
Hi there! Thanks for the kind words, and welcome to the forums.

I can't comment on the UFO spam, as it's too vague. Could be a response to you shooting down UFOs; in vanilla they would try to raid your base (alien retaliation), but in XCF it was just tedious (base defence every month) and not that threatening, so I replaced it by a swarm of fighters trying to block your base for a while. This was actually requested by the community. ;)

I plan to add Enforcers, yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: _Brain322 on July 02, 2019, 05:32:49 pm
I mean UFO in XCF appearing every 10-12 hours. Is it normal ? Sometimes, my squad can't even leave my base without detecting alien interceptor. And it's become tedious sometimes. But it might be just me. Anyway, wait forward for your full release  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 02, 2019, 08:59:49 pm
I mean UFO in XCF appearing every 10-12 hours. Is it normal ? Sometimes, my squad can't even leave my base without detecting alien interceptor. And it's become tedious sometimes. But it might be just me. Anyway, wait forward for your full release  :)

I wouldn't say it's normal, though may happen at times when the stars are right.
Unless I botched something recently :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: HT on July 06, 2019, 09:46:34 pm
I have a suggestion: What if we make Bloodhounds playable? Seeing that Piratez has them, X-Files could give the player an option to eventually purchase them as well, even if they're expensive to buy or whatever.

It could be repurposed as a special research that gives you a score penalty since their creation is somewhat unethical and potentially generate League of Concerned Citizens missions, like these deals with MAGMA Corp.

For extra unethical purposes, perhaps there could be an option to "transform" a regular dog unit into a Bloodhound? Fluff-wise it could be excused as brain transfer and such, a thing that could work for cybernetic dogs like K9 from Fallout 2, if that becomes a thing in the future.

Either way, with Bloodhounds I was talking about these giant blood-red dogs extracted from Blood in case it wasn't clear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: tkzv on July 07, 2019, 07:32:34 am
I have a suggestion: What if we make Bloodhounds playable?
Gilldogs too :)

cybernetic dogs like K9 from Fallout 2, if that becomes a thing in the future.
K9000?



Back to what I opened this topic for. Solarius, did you change anything in giant beetles? Compared to the previous version (0.9.9.c) in 0.9.9.d they seem to dodge bullets. Earlier they died from 1-2 hits from a Glock, now they take more than 4. Besides that, 3/4 of shots miss when indicated probability is 47-49%, most shots go too high.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 07, 2019, 11:16:58 am
I have a suggestion: What if we make Bloodhounds playable? Seeing that Piratez has them, X-Files could give the player an option to eventually purchase them as well, even if they're expensive to buy or whatever.

I've been wondering about this, but the technology to make them is pretty experimental around 2000; they are not a finished product yet (though can still be quite effective against X-Com agents). So adding them just like dogs would require some development of the general design, beyond what the Syndicate can do easily. Can X-Com do that? Maybe in late stage. We'll see.

It could be repurposed as a special research that gives you a score penalty since their creation is somewhat unethical and potentially generate League of Concerned Citizens missions, like these deals with MAGMA Corp.

I actually don't think the Council would mind much.

For extra unethical purposes, perhaps there could be an option to "transform" a regular dog unit into a Bloodhound? Fluff-wise it could be excused as brain transfer and such, a thing that could work for cybernetic dogs like K9 from Fallout 2, if that becomes a thing in the future.

I thought about that, but it didn't seem very scientific to me.

Back to what I opened this topic for. Solarius, did you change anything in giant beetles? Compared to the previous version (0.9.9.c) in 0.9.9.d they seem to dodge bullets. Earlier they died from 1-2 hits from a Glock, now they take more than 4. Besides that, 3/4 of shots miss when indicated probability is 47-49%, most shots go too high.

No, I haven't changed anything. Must be RNG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on July 07, 2019, 02:10:25 pm
I've been wondering about this, but the technology to make them is pretty experimental around 2000; they are not a finished product yet (though can still be quite effective against X-Com agents). So adding them just like dogs would require some development of the general design, beyond what the Syndicate can do easily. Can X-Com do that? Maybe in late stage. We'll see.
We have extradimensional travel, zero-gravity, can engineer a bio-toxin that only affects 'monsters', have scientific explanations for parapsychology, ghosts and ghost tanks, can graft alien skins into armored exoskeletons (or whatever you'd call them, the distinction is kind of moot)...i think x-com would be able to manage just fine.

Apart from that, why not simply recruit stunned/recovered blood hounds? I don't think any conditioning the syndicate might have used would prevent x-vom from re-conditioning them. They might not be stable on account of immune system problems, but it's nothing a bit of that 'magical monster gel' can't fix.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: HT on July 07, 2019, 05:31:19 pm
I've been wondering about this, but the technology to make them is pretty experimental around 2000; they are not a finished product yet (though can still be quite effective against X-Com agents). So adding them just like dogs would require some development of the general design, beyond what the Syndicate can do easily. Can X-Com do that? Maybe in late stage. We'll see.

Well, these dogs may be experimental, but the Syndicate produced enough of them to have them come with serial numbers. Perhaps it could be a special research available after defeating said faction? The point is to have an endgame equivalent for doggos.

Brain transfer may not be very "scientific", but it's a staple of sci-fi (it's a cruder version of mind-uploading after all) and the game is not too hardcore with realism, seeing that aliens and zombies are a thing. Either way, the idea was that you had a chance to repurpose your dog units into Bloodhounds, so that you don't have to train one of these from the start, which would be especially frustrating as by then you're close to the endgame. Perhaps you could "sacrifice" a dog unit as genetic material to produce a Bloodhound at the Workshop with some stats inherited from the donor?

We have extradimensional travel, zero-gravity, can engineer a bio-toxin that only affects 'monsters', have scientific explanations for parapsychology, ghosts and ghost tanks, can graft alien skins into armored exoskeletons (or whatever you'd call them, the distinction is kind of moot)...i think x-com would be able to manage just fine.

Apart from that, why not simply recruit stunned/recovered blood hounds? I don't think any conditioning the syndicate might have used would prevent x-vom from re-conditioning them. They might not be stable on account of immune system problems, but it's nothing a bit of that 'magical monster gel' can't fix.

This.

Capturing live Bloodhounds to re-educate them is also an option, but that can be done already with enemy dogs and rats, not sure if it would be fitting to do it as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 07, 2019, 07:03:02 pm
We have extradimensional travel, zero-gravity, can engineer a bio-toxin that only affects 'monsters', have scientific explanations for parapsychology, ghosts and ghost tanks, can graft alien skins into armored exoskeletons (or whatever you'd call them, the distinction is kind of moot)...i think x-com would be able to manage just fine.

Apart from that, why not simply recruit stunned/recovered blood hounds? I don't think any conditioning the syndicate might have used would prevent x-vom from re-conditioning them. They might not be stable on account of immune system problems, but it's nothing a bit of that 'magical monster gel' can't fix.

OK, I'll think about this seriously. But I need a way to make it a later game thing, some sort of biological mastery.

And @HumanTraitor Brain transfer is not exactly impossible, but it's not what you probably think, otherwise the aliens wouldn't be using actual human brains. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Mr. Mister on July 08, 2019, 10:07:27 pm
Maybe make it require an XCOM dog and a captured bloodhound, so that you're transferring the brain from the dog into the bloodhound's body?

As for why you can't use this tech with humans, make it so that memory is not preserved, only instinct, so that nobody in their right mind would want to donate their brain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Cynus_X on July 08, 2019, 11:47:06 pm
Anyone else feeling a "Cesar Milan" Dossier coming up?  ;D

OK, I'll think about this seriously. But I need a way to make it a later game thing, some sort of biological mastery.

Maybe you need to capture/retrieve a scientist experienced in something neurosciency with dogs from a syndicate compound. Make it a one-time only mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 10, 2019, 04:00:52 pm
Why do you people fixate on the brain so much? The brain has nothing to do with this. (Aside from the "brain transfer" idiocy, which I won't even comment upon.)
The point is, if you want a bloodhound, you need to grow a bloodhound. From an embryo. Turning an adult dog to a bloodhound is as hard as turning an average Joe into a 2.5 m Space Marine. Even if it was possible, it just doesn't make much sense.
But I realize the gameplay advantage, so I'm like, "convince me, I want to be convinced".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: HT on July 10, 2019, 05:11:53 pm
Well, if re-training a captured Bloodhound isn't an option, then growing one should suffice. It probably will require kidnapping Syndicate scientists to interrogate them for info, so it will likely take a while to get to that, possibly until the Syndicate is permanently destroyed by the time your tech is advanced enough to do that.

By the way, just to know: When should the next update be done? Next month or so?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Lohland on July 10, 2019, 08:03:07 pm
Can we hope to see a mortar in the game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: hvnlysoldr on July 12, 2019, 08:44:15 pm
Great work with the mod. I'm replaying from the beginning. Those weapon boxes really help in the beginning year.
The rat unit is so much less useful than dogs. I'm not talking about the stats although armor for the animals don't measure up late. No, my frustration is training Reaction stats. Dog soldiers gain reaction stats for Bark weapon and for Bite weapon trains both Melee and Reaction. The highest stat Rat soldiers can utilize (Reaction) is much harder to train than everything else. It requires putting your Rat right up to an enemy and dangerously take a risk, either your rat gets killed quick or you get to pathetically bite back. The Rat seems to be even more specialized as a low HP scout than Dogs are, but it's so much harder to keep them alive than dogs to reach that potential. Please change Giant Rat Bite train both Reaction and Melee like Dog Bite does. Manufacturing armor for rats like we can for dogs would make them easier to keep alive as well.
My opinion for both Rat and Dog soldiers is they cannot run as fast as late-game soldiers. That probably has to do with the Energy refill formula. It looks at current health and the animals just don't have that much to begin with. Max health soldiers don't have as high stamina capacity but playing it feels they regain them at a faster pace; and that reduces the satisfaction of running the animal scouts; although that's just at the late stage with superhuman soldiers.
Soldier JUMPSUIT (15 + 0.25*CURRENT HEALTH (CAP 70))/STAMINA (CAP 105)*100%=31% recovery
vs RAT ARMOR (25 + 0.25*CURRENT HEALTH(CAP 30))/STAMINA (CAP 140)*100%=22% recovery
Since playing this mod I have always liked using Flashlights better than Flares. Electro-Flares are less expensive but less powerful. Even with Flashlights being heavier, thus cannot be thrown as far, their light strength and their melee ability appeals to me more. So finding Shogg Lanterns worked like better flares and that later on I could buy Shogg tech like ships and weapons; I was disappointed I couldn't buy them. Looking in the Items and Research Rulesets I found the problem. Items lists being able to buy them when you can buy all the other weapons and has the sell price but without the costBuy tag it will never be available. Please either make them not at all buy-able by removing the purchase tag or put in the costBuy.
  - type: STR_SHOGG_LANTERN
    categories: [STR_SHOGG_TECH, STR_EQUIPMENT]
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_PURCHASE_SHOGG_WEAPONS
    size: 0.25
    costSell: 4000
    weight: 4
    bigSprite: 748
    floorSprite: 685
    power: 18
    battleType: 10
    costThrow:
      energy: 8
    invWidth: 1
    invHeight: 3
    attraction: 4
    recoveryPoints: 1
    listOrder: 46270
Keep up the great work we all really appreciate X-Files and OPENXCOM and all your effort and support.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on July 16, 2019, 10:33:16 pm
How about giving the single shot grenade launcher a tear gas that stuns over time? Or a rubber shell that stuns and wounds slightly? The M-79 irl had rubber rounds and tear gas that are used which I believe the grenade launcher in this mod is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2019, 11:27:35 pm
Sorry I'm kinda absent lately, my parents are moving and I don't have time for much right now, because I'm hauling stuff like a Settlers/Rimworld character. Or assembling furniture. This will last until the end of this week, after which I will be back in action.

Well, if re-training a captured Bloodhound isn't an option, then growing one should suffice. It probably will require kidnapping Syndicate scientists to interrogate them for info, so it will likely take a while to get to that, possibly until the Syndicate is permanently destroyed by the time your tech is advanced enough to do that.

That's more like it.

By the way, just to know: When should the next update be done? Next month or so?

Hard to say. I want the next version to be 1.0 (finally), which means a lot more work than usual. But I'm on it.

Can we hope to see a mortar in the game?

Yeah, it's planned.

Great work with the mod. I'm replaying from the beginning. Those weapon boxes really help in the beginning year.

Thanks for the kind words!

The rat unit is so much less useful than dogs. I'm not talking about the stats although armor for the animals don't measure up late. No, my frustration is training Reaction stats. Dog soldiers gain reaction stats for Bark weapon and for Bite weapon trains both Melee and Reaction. The highest stat Rat soldiers can utilize (Reaction) is much harder to train than everything else. It requires putting your Rat right up to an enemy and dangerously take a risk, either your rat gets killed quick or you get to pathetically bite back. The Rat seems to be even more specialized as a low HP scout than Dogs are, but it's so much harder to keep them alive than dogs to reach that potential. Please change Giant Rat Bite train both Reaction and Melee like Dog Bite does. Manufacturing armor for rats like we can for dogs would make them easier to keep alive as well.
My opinion for both Rat and Dog soldiers is they cannot run as fast as late-game soldiers. That probably has to do with the Energy refill formula. It looks at current health and the animals just don't have that much to begin with. Max health soldiers don't have as high stamina capacity but playing it feels they regain them at a faster pace; and that reduces the satisfaction of running the animal scouts; although that's just at the late stage with superhuman soldiers.

Hmm. Feels fine in general, but you're right, late game humans sort of catch up with animals, rending them obsolete.
I don't know how to deal with this without adding special armour for animals, but 1) it's rather controversial, 2) I need sprites.

Since playing this mod I have always liked using Flashlights better than Flares. Electro-Flares are less expensive but less powerful. Even with Flashlights being heavier, thus cannot be thrown as far, their light strength and their melee ability appeals to me more. So finding Shogg Lanterns worked like better flares and that later on I could buy Shogg tech like ships and weapons; I was disappointed I couldn't buy them. Looking in the Items and Research Rulesets I found the problem. Items lists being able to buy them when you can buy all the other weapons and has the sell price but without the costBuy tag it will never be available.

You're right! It's a bug, sorry.
Just add
Code: [Select]
    costBuy: 10000
to the item entry.

How about giving the single shot grenade launcher a tear gas that stuns over time? Or a rubber shell that stuns and wounds slightly? The M-79 irl had rubber rounds and tear gas that are used which I believe the grenade launcher in this mod is.

I'm not sure how to model this. Could you suggest some formula?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: justaround on July 18, 2019, 11:35:17 pm
Hmm. Feels fine in general, but you're right, late game humans sort of catch up with animals, rending them obsolete.
I don't know how to deal with this without adding special armour for animals, but 1) it's rather controversial, 2) I need sprites.
Shouldn't it be this way? While, as you know, I am generally ambivalent toward use of animals and skeptical about their believable utility in combat setting in general, I do understand they're a choice of relatively low-cost cannon fodder/disposable trooper. Late game humans are usually super trained, sci-fi equipment totting, psychic-power wielding or futuristic-armor clad individuals and I'd be surprised if regular attack dog, no matter how armored and steroid-pumped it'd be would be a viable substitute for such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on July 19, 2019, 02:28:26 am
BTW, do we have any need for an early game high AP dame single shot rifle? Because while browsing youtube i came upon this utterly ridiculous gun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg0RdhFnTd0) which fires 20 mm caliber bullets (i.e. M61 Vulcan ammunition, altough shortened and necked down). More on the caliber on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.950_JDJ):
Quote
By comparison, the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge, used in the M16 and M4 rifles, produces between 1,200–1,300 ft⋅lbf (1,600–1,800 J), while the .308 Winchester, a favorite for hunters and medium-range police/military sniping, produces between 2,000–3,000 ft⋅lbf (2,700–4,100 J) depending on the load used. The ballistics of the .950 JDJ are more similar to that of the 20 mm autocannon round, which delivers approximately 39,500 ft⋅lbf (53,600 J). The muzzle energy of the .950 JDJ is comparable to the kinetic energy of a 2,800 lb (1,300 kg) automobile traveling at 20 mph (32 km/h).

Apparently this was a) produced in a small series (as in three in total) and b) doesn't count as a destructive device since it got a "Sporting Use Exception" in the US. Technically this is perfectly legal for civilians, provided you can get your hands on one.

The muzzle break alone on that thing weighs more than most rifles. It's an utterly ridiculous weapon and i demand that x-com gets a way to use it. Maybe some special mission to recover it, like the arrow interceptor. Give it a limited ammunition supply. I could see this as a last resort weapon if crossbows and sporting rifles simply don't cut it and explosives are still far off. No longer will we have to run from those freak reaper encounters early in the game (well, provided you manage to bring it down with one of those ten cartridges it came with).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 19, 2019, 10:36:46 am
This probably falls under Advanced Firearms, especially in 1997.
And it would definitely be strictly military level, I don't care what the US regulations say.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on July 19, 2019, 02:13:32 pm
  :'(
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on July 19, 2019, 08:49:56 pm
I don't really see why X-COM would need that gun. II World War Anti-Tank rifles fill such need, like Wz.35 anti-tank rifle for example and are basically more accessible for X-COM since Council looks a bit favorably at gear form that era. And for something like that there is need, like Mansion Attack where Exalt employs tank.

"Fat Mac" fits XPiratez more.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on July 24, 2019, 05:14:11 pm
I'm not sure how to model this. Could you suggest some formula?
No idea how to but if someone is willing to try, im just throwing out ideas to be considered.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 24, 2019, 07:55:28 pm
No idea how to but if someone is willing to try, im just throwing out ideas to be considered.

I'm not asking for specific code, only how it's suppose to work mathematically.
If I have this, I can think if and how it can be implemented.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: chitchat on July 26, 2019, 12:34:03 am
Why so many naked ladies?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2019, 12:52:05 pm
Why so many naked ladies?

Whaaaat????

I will assume wrong mod, or a trolling attempt.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: SparroHawc on July 28, 2019, 08:33:02 pm
There are some naked person assets in the citizens pack.  They aren't used in X-Com Files, but they do exist.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: HT on July 30, 2019, 11:22:55 am
I think he was talking about that thing with the skirmish battle generator: There's that Easter Egg where if you don't delete the "battle.cfg" placed in the game's save files location, all of your agents show up naked by default. That can still be changed by choosing another armor type for them to wear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on July 30, 2019, 11:42:15 am
There are some naked person assets in the citizens pack.  They aren't used in X-Com Files, but they do exist.
Stop the presses, this is important.

In all honesty, these are used for the paperdoll armors afaik. Please don't butcher them Solarius. If i want my squad to go buck naked against the alien menace i should bloody well be able to do so, evne if it's only in skirmishes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 30, 2019, 10:19:10 pm
Stop the presses, this is important.

In all honesty, these are used for the paperdoll armors afaik. Please don't butcher them Solarius. If i want my squad to go buck naked against the alien menace i should bloody well be able to do so, evne if it's only in skirmishes.

Sure, I'm not touching them. :)
An average player should never be able to see them anyway, unless they feel smart.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: SparroHawc on July 31, 2019, 12:48:19 am
Stop the presses, this is important.

In all honesty, these are used for the paperdoll armors afaik. Please don't butcher them Solarius. If i want my squad to go buck naked against the alien menace i should bloody well be able to do so, evne if it's only in skirmishes.

They're used if the person implementing the citizens pack decides they want to use naked NPC corpses.  There are no nude paper dolls and no NPC sprites; just corpse sprites for the battlescape, and inventory objects.  They're just .png files, so it's not hard to find them if you look.  You could remove them with absolutely zero effect on the game AFAIK; the only thing that would happen is it might possibly stop some pearl-clutching.  Unless Solarius has sneakily included them somewhere, that is.  (Alien abduction missions??)

EDIT:  Oh hey, I was wrong - I was looking in the wrong directory.  That's a lot of nude paper doll images.

Not sure how you got that, HumanTraitor - I have a battle.cfg and when I start a skirmish, everyone has on a suit at the least.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: nicedayright on July 31, 2019, 02:59:54 am
If I remember correctly, the arcing ballistic property is tied to the weapon, rather than the ammo. This makes beanbag rounds for the 40mm more difficult to implement as they would still arch like the normal rounds, making them practically useless indoors where a beanbag round would be most useful. I ran into the same problem when trying to justify the 40mm buckshot cartridge I wanted to implement (or my idea for Assault Cannon grapeshot in Piratez).  As far as the teargas is concerned, it would have to be flat initial choking damage translated into reactions/stamina. Barring scripts there is no way to apply a DOT effect barring setting a person on fire, and fire is universal, so you wouldn't even be able to get cheeky by turning the fire into stun damage without making the game weird. That said, I don't think the tear gas grenades are necessarily a bad idea, you'd just have to give up on the idea of stun over time and make them tu/stamina draining items to prep a breach and clear (or tie down gill-dogs).

As far as ridiculously large rifles go, you really shouldn't need them until late enough in the game where you have better options. Explosives aren't THAT far in anyway. That said, I'd love to see a Simonov PTRS in the hands of higher tier Red Dawn. Given there relative abundance among east-bloc militias, it wouldn't be that hard to justify. I'm going to check my old Jagged Alliance 2 files, I think there's a useable graphic for on in there somewhere.


I just stopped in to say great mod, scorch. I haven't been keeping up on my updates and it looks like you've added a lot of content since I was last here. I wanted to suggest that maybe, later in a campaign, you could include an option to buy psi-screened recruits? I'm going to screen them manually anyway, but giving us the ability to do away with some of the hassle at the cost of a bit more money per troop would be nice. No pressure though, it's not that big of a hassle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 31, 2019, 12:48:57 pm
Thanks!
I do have a plan (a real detailed plan, not just an idea) about advanced soldier types, but it relies on code which doesn't exist yet. If it ever happens, expect a revolution in character advancement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Finnik on July 31, 2019, 02:22:39 pm
Barring scripts there is no way to apply a DOT effect barring setting a person on fire, and fire is universal, so you wouldn't even be able to get cheeky by turning the fire into stun damage without making the game weird. That said, I don't think the tear gas grenades are necessarily a bad idea, you'd just have to give up on the idea of stun over time and make them tu/stamina draining items to prep a breach and clear (or tie down gill-dogs).

What is wrong with adding Yankes scripts? we have daze effect for flashbangs, its effect over time. I can easily tweak it to make pretty much any effect for numbers of an affected target, like, say, DOT - damage n to hp and morale every turn, lasts m turns. numbers can be fixed or randomized. the only issue is to make its a visible effect, which needs to make all of that in-game code rather than in scripts. Doable, tho, if its really needed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: SparroHawc on July 31, 2019, 08:16:03 pm
I think what Thunderwing is looking for is a smoke cloud that does stun/TU damage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Moon_Dew on August 02, 2019, 08:53:32 am
This has probably been asked a thousand times already, but any advice for getting started?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 02, 2019, 04:55:06 pm
This has probably been asked a thousand times already, but any advice for getting started?
Ufopaedia would be a good starting point in regards to new game functions and tactics. Don't be afraid to run if you think you can't handle a mission. Early game is pretty forgiving as far as points are concerned. Get your reasearch started asap and push weapons+armor. You might also want to invest in additional agents. Also don't expect to succeed if this is your first playthrough - there is simply a truck-load of new stuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: nicedayright on August 02, 2019, 09:16:01 pm
This has probably been asked a thousand times already, but any advice for getting started?

While it may seem daunting, I'd encourage you to DO EVERY MISSION. At least early on. Don't be afraid to abort a mission, grabbing what loot you can and running, but your campaign can be severely hamstrung by ignoring too many of the bughunts. Well trained agents are one of your most valuable assets, and they get well trained by killing hundreds of zombies, rats and cultists.

The exception is chupacabra hunts. Run the fuck away from chupacabra missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Bobit on August 02, 2019, 11:51:43 pm
The exception is any hunt where you're within melee range. Hunts are just training missions where you spamfire from the van until you're in the slightest bit of danger then immediately abort. I really don't like them at all.

You can abort half the missions in the game and be perfectly fine. So long as you just shoot a little, you get the exp, and that's about all you can get from a hunt.

But yeah Chupas have by far the largest range, and are incredibly powerful, frequently oneshotting you on the frst turn from out of range. I might go so far as to say that if you don't know what you're facing in a hunt, you should abort as it could be a chupa.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Covenant on August 03, 2019, 01:07:58 am
The exception is any hunt where you're within melee range. Hunts are just training missions where you spamfire from the van until you're in the slightest bit of danger then immediately abort. I really don't like them at all.

I know what you mean. It's fun doing them all for the first time, and that moment where you go from 'Aah, this is too scary' to 'Wait, I can handle this' is always cool, but yeah, it doesn't take long at all for the hunts to start to feel like a chore.

Actually, on the subject, which are the missions that I definitely shouldn't skip/abort, in terms of points? I'm always worried about running into trouble through accruing a negative score due to not doing them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: nicedayright on August 03, 2019, 02:22:00 am
Honestly I show up for everything but after I've identified that there's nothing new on the mission I generally just abort. hunting down Beatles gets pretty old after awhile.

In other news sectoids just attacked my training base. We are going to see how much they like having to deal with 50 psi screened rookies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2019, 05:30:29 pm
hunting down Beatles gets pretty old after awhile.
Is that an easteregg mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 03, 2019, 07:00:58 pm
I toned down the amount of monster hunts. :P
(by about 12.5%)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2019, 07:57:41 pm
BTW do you have any plans of reworking enemy deployments for the "into the dark"/cave missions? I always found it strange that "natural" underground species only appeared one at a time, especially as far as bats or spiders are concenred. Shouldn't they be kind of abundant, seeing how they aren't placed there by the syndicate but breed in the caves?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 03, 2019, 08:27:39 pm
For some reason I can't research Alien electronics even though I have all requirements for it. I've researched both a leader and engineer and done the appropirate research. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2019, 08:39:23 pm
For some reason I can't research Alien electronics even though I have all requirements for it. I've researched both a leader and engineer and done the appropirate research. Am I missing something?
Unless something has changed in the latest versions, these are the requirements:
  - name: STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
    requiresBaseFunc: [STDLAB]
    cost: 500
    points: 100
    needItem: true
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_POWER_SYSTEMS
      - STR_ADVANCED_AI
      - STR_ALIEN_ENGINEER_INTERROGATED
      - STR_LEADER_PLUS

Meaning you need the items itself as well as a standard lab, power systems and advanced ai in addition to the interrogations. Do you have all of these?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 03, 2019, 08:43:48 pm
Unless something has changed in the latest versions, these are the requirements:
  - name: STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
    requiresBaseFunc: [STDLAB]
    cost: 500
    points: 100
    needItem: true
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_POWER_SYSTEMS
      - STR_ADVANCED_AI
      - STR_ALIEN_ENGINEER_INTERROGATED
      - STR_LEADER_PLUS

Meaning you need the items itself as well as a standard lab, power systems and advanced ai in addition to the interrogations. Do you have all of these?
Yes I've interrogated both a leader and engineer and researched all of the required topics but it doesn't come up with the topic, I checked the tech viewer and all of these were highlighted as being researched
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2019, 08:45:25 pm
Yes I've interrogated both a leader and engineer and researched all of the required topics but it doesn't come up with the topic, I checked the tech viewer and all of these were highlighted as being researched
Can you attach/upload the savegame in question?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 03, 2019, 08:59:46 pm
Sure, here's the save and a screenshot of the research screen
EDIT: I think I don't have any alien electronics the item, where do i get those?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2019, 09:05:31 pm
I'd suggest you look at the requirements i posted. Or simply look at the tech tree screenshot.

EDIT: I think I don't have any alien electronics the item, where do i get those?
Indeed, that's what you're missing. You get them from certain enemies, from UFOs or from cult warehouses/ships iirc. Look at the rul-files if you want to spoil yourself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 03, 2019, 09:31:08 pm
I'd suggest you look at the requirements i posted. Or simply look at the tech tree screenshot.
Indeed, that's what you're missing. You get them from certain enemies, from UFOs or from cult warehouses/ships iirc. Look at the rul-files if you want to spoil yourself.
Any specific UFO's? I've done a fair few UFO missions but I havn't come accross any of these.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 03, 2019, 09:40:49 pm
Not the ufos themselves, but engineers (and leaders?) sometimes carry these. Sometimes. The only sure way is to disassemble certain enemies units. Again, if you want to spoil yourself you can search the rul-files for alien_electronics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2019, 01:23:52 am
BTW do you have any plans of reworking enemy deployments for the "into the dark"/cave missions? I always found it strange that "natural" underground species only appeared one at a time, especially as far as bats or spiders are concenred. Shouldn't they be kind of abundant, seeing how they aren't placed there by the syndicate but breed in the caves?

I'll have a look, thanks.
EDIT: Did some tweaks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: krautbernd on August 04, 2019, 03:05:50 pm
Nice.

Just noticed that the throwing costs (not the using cost) for the flashbang isn't in line with other grenades - it takes a flat 30 TUs to throw it, which is higher than other grenades (depending on your total TUs) - is this intended?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2019, 04:45:56 pm
Nice.

Just noticed that the throwing costs (not the using cost) for the flashbang isn't in line with other grenades - it takes a flat 30 TUs to throw it, which is higher than other grenades (depending on your total TUs) - is this intended?

Yeah, though I can't remember the reason. :P

I said the next release would be 1.0, but there were some annoying bugs, so we decided to release 0.9.9e.
- Missions are now properly interrupted after they're no longer valid, even in the same month (Finnik's explanation here (https://youtu.be/YNSBEOs7Vow)).
- A bit less monster hunts in general.
- Added extra alien research missions in early game (by Finnik).
- Damaging a UFO on base defense decreases the number of attackers.
- Defensive roboturrets are now player controlled.
- Cybermite now has tremorsense.
- Chryssalid is now a little stealthy.
- Alien Brain is now (practically) immune to psi.
- Gillman weapon debuff.
- Less Gillmen in Church of Dagon HQ.
- Special animation for plasma explosions.
- New visual effect on successful flashbang attack (by Finnik).
- New markers for the MiB base (by Finnik).
- New autopsy picture for the Tasoth (by Efrenespartano and Luke83).
- Tomb Guard now has green blood (by Dioxine).
- Restored vanilla Firestorm icons.
- Added some armor and attraction attributes to various items.
- Rebalanced Skulljack.
- Shogg Lantern is now buyable.
- Syndicate Warehouse made bigger to avoid a crash when using Osprey.
- Fixed a crash on capturing Samael alive.
- Fixed radar dish on Intelligence Center map.
- Fixed handob indexing.
- Minor fixes.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on August 04, 2019, 05:47:52 pm
I wanted to give this new update a quick spin, but the mod selector in the options menu is gone. Is that a bug, or intentional? If the latter, how do I select X-Files and whatever mods I wish to play?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: thisnameismeta on August 04, 2019, 09:23:39 pm
Did the option to automatically turn on night vision and turn off personal lights during night missions go away? I couldn't find it when upgrading to the newest version, but perhaps I messed up my install somehow? I always appreciated that option as it removed some of the tedium from night missions (particularly since I run all cult missions as night missions at the start of the game).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2019, 09:31:23 pm
I wanted to give this new update a quick spin, but the mod selector in the options menu is gone. Is that a bug, or intentional? If the latter, how do I select X-Files and whatever mods I wish to play?

Do you have OXCE 5.6.1?

Did the option to automatically turn on night vision and turn off personal lights during night missions go away? I couldn't find it when upgrading to the newest version, but perhaps I messed up my install somehow? I always appreciated that option as it removed some of the tedium from night missions (particularly since I run all cult missions at night missions at the start of the game).

I honestly can't remember, but could be an OXCE change.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 04, 2019, 10:00:28 pm
I wanted to give this new update a quick spin, but the mod selector in the options menu is gone. Is that a bug, or intentional? If the latter, how do I select X-Files and whatever mods I wish to play?

The "MODS" button is now on the main/start screen... not in Options anymore.

Did the option to automatically turn on night vision and turn off personal lights during night missions go away? I couldn't find it when upgrading to the newest version, but perhaps I messed up my install somehow? I always appreciated that option as it removed some of the tedium from night missions (particularly since I run all cult missions at night missions at the start of the game).

The option was removed quite long ago.
It is now activated automatically... but only during complete darkness (and I mean absolutely pitch black).
In partial darkness, you need to activate night vision manually (once per battle).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: thisnameismeta on August 04, 2019, 10:25:09 pm
Yes, I just reviewed the relevant post talking about the change. Unfortunately, the conversion on the option you proposed doesn't replicate the full functionality of the original option. The nice thing about the original option was that it took out the work of preparing for night missions as they're done in Xcom Files - it not only turned on night vision but also turned off personal lights. That second bit is the most important part, honestly, as personal lights kill your agents in cultist assaults.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9d: Samael's Passage
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 05, 2019, 01:21:58 am
- Cybermite now has tremorsense.
What is tremorsense?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 05, 2019, 09:31:23 am
I recently started running The X-Com Files on version 0.9.9d again.
Can I upgrade to 0.9.9e and continue my game?

I do not understand where the items go after I make the right click on them in the menu "Purchase / Hire ..."
They just disappear from the list of available goods and I can no longer buy them!
This applies to everything except people (Agent, Scientist, Engineer).

And further...
It would be good in the Funding menu to designate changes in funding in different colors, for clarity.
For example, a decrease in monthly financing should be highlighted in red, an increase in green, and the absence of changes in white.
Thanks for the mod, it's very interesting to play!


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 05, 2019, 10:35:20 am
I do not understand where the items go after I make the right click on them in the menu "Purchase / Hire ..."
They just disappear from the list of available goods and I can no longer buy them!
This applies to everything except people (Agent, Scientist, Engineer).

Have you checked the filters? One of them should read 'Hidden'.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 05, 2019, 11:03:10 am
I checked the Hidden filter. Thanks, this is it!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2019, 12:02:14 pm
Tremorsense in games (originating from DnD) is the ability to locate other units without using sight, typically by being sensitive to vibrations.
In terms of mechanics, they got a psi vision of 6 or so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 05, 2019, 01:43:09 pm
Tremorsense in games (originating from DnD) is the ability to locate other units without using sight, typically by being sensitive to vibrations.
In terms of mechanics, they got a psi vision of 6 or so.
And here i was imagining a whole new game mechanic - akin to the motion scanner, but for the AI. Essentially blind, but they sense you via your movements.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2019, 07:24:53 pm
And here i was imagining a whole new game mechanic - akin to the motion scanner, but for the AI. Essentially blind, but they sense you via your movements.

Unfortunately not, this is not possible - at least not now.

And I released a fixed version 0.9.9e2. The one from yesterday kinda exploded under certain circumstances.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Covenant on August 05, 2019, 10:51:26 pm
Though the term does throw up an obvious suggestion for an addition to the hunts (a few more types to lessen the number of beetle/rat/scorpion ones can never hurt) - Graboids!

I mean, obviously, good luck to the poor guy who has to sprite those things, but it'd certainly be awesome to see those start popping up in desert environments.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Mr. Mister on August 06, 2019, 02:52:51 am
For a moment there I thought you had fixed handjob indexing.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on August 06, 2019, 09:51:40 am
Hey, Solarius. I like the effect of damaged UFOs upon base defence, but could similar effect be expanded to other missions (in situation where the UFO is attacked, destroys the attacking aircraft and then continues with its objective) or would it not apply? Also, what about loot? It'd be nice if such damaged UFO also had a chance of providing some corpses or "loose" equipment as remains of dead attackers, so it wouldn't be decreasing loot as a penalty for damaging the UFO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2019, 10:39:26 am
For a moment there I thought you had fixed handjob indexing.

Understandable. But I'm curious about what it would mean exactly. ;D

Hey, Solarius. I like the effect of damaged UFOs upon base defence, but could similar effect be expanded to other missions (in situation where the UFO is attacked, destroys the attacking aircraft and then continues with its objective) or would it not apply? Also, what about loot? It'd be nice if such damaged UFO also had a chance of providing some corpses or "loose" equipment as remains of dead attackers, so it wouldn't be decreasing loot as a penalty for damaging the UFO.

I don't know if this affects UFOs in general, or just on base defense. But the name as well as the ruleset reference point to the latter. Also, crashing a UFO usually kills some crew members anyway.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 06, 2019, 10:51:32 am
Hey, Solarius. I like the effect of damaged UFOs upon base defence, but could similar effect be expanded to other missions (in situation where the UFO is attacked, destroys the attacking aircraft and then continues with its objective) or would it not apply? Also, what about loot? It'd be nice if such damaged UFO also had a chance of providing some corpses or "loose" equipment as remains of dead attackers, so it wouldn't be decreasing loot as a penalty for damaging the UFO.
You might have better luck asking that question in the OXCE discussion thread, i'm not sure that the loot aspect can be implemented with the current mechanics.

How would that even be handled? Spawning in alien corpses on base defence missions? What, do the aliens carry their dead brethren out of the invading UFO into your hangar bays? An after-action report detailing bodies recovered from the landed UFO? Doesn't the UFO take off, seeing how we don't get any UFO materials from base defence missions?

Why shouldn't there be a 'penalty'? You're fighting less aliens to begin with.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on August 07, 2019, 12:01:19 am
How would that even be handled? Spawning in alien corpses on base defence missions? What, do the aliens carry their dead brethren out of the invading UFO into your hangar bays? An after-action report detailing bodies recovered from the landed UFO? Doesn't the UFO take off, seeing how we don't get any UFO materials from base defence missions?
A big part of this line was in regards to damaged UFOs in general, not merely base defense ones. Though I do think that shooting down/taking over an UFO that dropped the invading troops would be nifty, but out of scope of the post.

Why shouldn't there be a 'penalty'? You're fighting less aliens to begin with.
Yes, but you fight less aliens not as an arbitrarily chosen option with its own price to pay, but due to partially succesful defensive measures. With less loot, the game basically punishes the player for having some air defenses that damaged the UFO over having none.

Anyway, thanks for the answers, folks, and the suggestion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on August 07, 2019, 10:55:05 am
What's the name of the modified doom song with the sounds of battle being part of the music itself?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 07, 2019, 11:26:51 am
Yes, but you fight less aliens not as an arbitrarily chosen option with its own price to pay, but due to partially succesful defensive measures. With less loot, the game basically punishes the player for having some air defenses that damaged the UFO over having none.
Going by that logic you should get all the loot when you destroy an invading UFO, because otherwise you would get 'punished' for having built enough air defense to avoid the base defense. You could make the same argument in regards to shot down UFOs: You should be able to recover all of the components, otherwise you're being punished because you were able to shoot it down in the first place. Logic much?

The whole point of a base defense mission is not the loot, and you're not getting 'punished' by having to fight less aliens. The point of a base defense missions is to not lose the base. Your reward is that you keep the base, and having to fight less aliens makes that easier (or for a shorter base defense mission, anyway).
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 07, 2019, 05:34:31 pm
Beach / Swimsuit mission: no escape  (Superhuman/ironman)

What is the purpose of this mission?  Four of my agents are allowed in swimsuits. There were at least 8 gang members with automatic weapons and they moved down my squad.  I had dart rifles and managed to tranquilize two of them.

Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 07, 2019, 05:40:00 pm
Beach / Swimsuit mission: no escape  (Superhuman/ironman)

What is the purpose of this mission?  Four of my agents are allowed in swimsuits. There were at least 8 gang members with automatic weapons and they moved down my squad.  I had dart rifles and managed to tranquilize two of them.
As has been stated many times before, the game isn't balanced for superhuman - it's balanced for experienced/veteran. As for the purpose, was does the mission description say?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 07, 2019, 06:55:52 pm
As for the purpose, was does the mission description say?
Mission briefing said handle the situation, but if something goes wrong, there is no extraction for your team..

As has been stated many times before, the game isn't balanced for superhuman - it's balanced for experienced/veteran. As for the purpose, was does the mission description say?
Ah, I missed that completely! I love the crazy mayhem of superhuman. Couple missions ago I encountered an EXALT place  that must have been some kind of an HQ, because there were 30 of them, from that at least 6 "goons" with body armor and 4 special forces in armored black suits - who could shoot very well with frightening sounding high caliber weaponry. My team was decimated. Thanks to maxed out Gym training for 4 of my agents in bio suits with  Nitro rifles and the rest with shotguns+AP ammo, four of us survived. That fight was amazing!

As was the zombie plague outbreak that has the super epic, massively amazing soundtrack, which I think was specially designated for zombie killing. That was awesome experience!! If X-Com Files were on Steam that zombie mission music experience would be a major talking point and a big contributor for increased sales and positive reviews. Whoever chose that soundtrack would create fantastic games at a development company.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 07, 2019, 07:17:29 pm
SMOKES!!!

Is there any hope for the fixing of smoke grenades? Typical situation: my agents sitting in the smoked area, and MY guys can't see anything while enemies can see them and shoot with no penalty accuracy! WTF??? Look at this http://prntscr.com/opoflg
He can see me and I can't! How could that be???

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 07, 2019, 07:56:24 pm
Beach / Swimsuit mission: no escape  (Superhuman/ironman)

What is the purpose of this mission?  Four of my agents are allowed in swimsuits. There were at least 8 gang members with automatic weapons and they moved down my squad.  I had dart rifles and managed to tranquilize two of them.

I've done the mod (ver. 0.9.9c with superhuman/ironman). Its difficult but completable:) Now playing 0.9.0e.
The The purpose is to kill all Osiron's members and capture some alien artifacts. Try to capture one of these bad guys and interrogate him - it will open a very interesting and profitable line of missions ;) 

The main trouble which could be on that mission is the bad spawn point (too close to bad boys). The good tactics is to take knives and tasers, make an ambush in starting house near double doors, close them and wait till enemies come inside. To do so successfully you need to take agents with good melee accuracy and strength. If you train them at the gym before, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 07, 2019, 08:01:15 pm
Yeah, with higher difficulties things can end up getting a bit nasty. As for the music, the used tracks are in the readme if you want to have a look.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on August 07, 2019, 11:45:20 pm
The Doom  music X-COM Files is a variant of Doom's entry theme that I cannot recognize, as it has sounds of shotguns, fighting and monsters grunting to accompany the melody, so it's not the standard theme. The readme mentions the author, but not the name of this variant.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 08, 2019, 12:22:43 am
I've done the mod (ver. 0.9.9c with superhuman/ironman). Its difficult but completable:) Now playing 0.9.0e.
The The purpose is to kill all Osiron's members and capture some alien artifacts. Try to capture one of these bad guys and interrogate him - it will open a very interesting and profitable line of missions ;) 

The main trouble which could be on that mission is the bad spawn point (too close to bad boys). The good tactics is to take knives and tasers, make an ambush in starting house near double doors, close them and wait till enemies come inside. To do so successfully you need to take agents with good melee accuracy and strength. If you train them at the gym before, so that shouldn't be a problem.
That sounds like a professional strategy! I'll try it next time.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on August 08, 2019, 12:32:05 am
Going by that logic you should get all the loot when you destroy an invading UFO, because otherwise you would get 'punished' for having built enough air defense to avoid the base defense. You could make the same argument in regards to shot down UFOs: You should be able to recover all of the components, otherwise you're being punished because you were able to shoot it down in the first place. Logic much?
Yes. Logic much. Because you set up false equivalence. There's considerable difference between shooting UFO down as it is required to be able to salvage it if it doesn't land (in the geoscape view) and acquiring items of UFO personnel if you thin their numbers. The same there's a difference between destroying UFO on approach toward one's base to save said base and benefitting less from succesfully fended off raid because you were unable to destroy that UFO, but managed to damage it.

And certainly there's difference between any of the above and demanding all parts of every shot down UFO. If you want to ask for such, it's your right (though I doubt it'll get far). I don't and I don't plan to.

The whole point of a base defense mission is not the loot, and you're not getting 'punished' by having to fight less aliens.
Yes, you're not getting punished by fighting fewer aliens but you certainly benefit less from fending off the aliens that do attack if you were already able to eradicate intact UFO's personnel.

The point of a base defense missions is to not lose the base. Your reward is that you keep the base, and having to fight less aliens makes that easier (or for a shorter base defense mission, anyway).
No, losing a base is condition of failure. Not failing isn't whole of the reward all in itself and even if you consider it as such, it's on you. The fact is that there's still something to gain beside continuous survival from base raids and so how much is gained under what circumstances is of some importance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: wolfreal on August 08, 2019, 08:41:30 am
If you feel you can defeat everything in a base defense, you can just disable the defenses you don't want to.use.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 10:04:11 am
Night missions

I'm always wait till daytime to begin mission... Today I've decided to go into the NIGH. And what is the result? Have a look http://prntscr.com/opvznx

Here is my soldier. He had shooted at frontal enemy and catched reaction shoot from the right corner. What does it mean? The night does not give you any tactical advantage, so the nightvision of drones and biosuits is useless. AI soldiers are cheaters ;)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 08, 2019, 10:13:45 am
Yes. Logic much. Because you set up false equivalence. There's considerable difference between shooting UFO down as it is required to be able to salvage it if it doesn't land (in the geoscape view) and acquiring items of UFO personnel if you thin their numbers. The same there's a difference between destroying UFO on approach toward one's base to save said base and benefitting less from succesfully fended off raid because you were unable to destroy that UFO, but managed to damage it.
I honestly don't see the difference then - in both cases you're asking for free loot for aliens you didn't fight and who might not have spawned in the first place (seeing how the numbers aren't fixed). And how is shooting down an UFO to salvage it any different from the case we're talking about here? In both cases the UFO get's damages, parts of it are destroyed and crew members are killed. Why should you benefit more from one than from the other?

Again, going by your (or OP's) logic, we should be able to also salvage the UFO after a base assault - which is ridiculous. Otherwise, how exactely do the bodies and equipment end up in our bases? The aliens literally have to drag their dead comrades and their equipment into our hangars. Why would they do that?

Yes, you're not getting punished by fighting fewer aliens but you certainly benefit less from fending off the aliens that do attack if you were already able to eradicate intact UFO's personnel.
I don't see why you should benefit from base attacks at all. In my oppinion there should be no 'free loot' either.

No, losing a base is condition of failure. Not failing isn't whole of the reward all in itself and even if you consider it as such, it's on you. The fact is that there's still something to gain beside continuous survival from base raids and so how much is gained under what circumstances is of some importance.
Yes, losing a base 'is condition of failure' - not losing it means you won. That's the point. The loot is entirely optional and (should) not (be) the point of the mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 08, 2019, 10:18:24 am
Here is my soldier. He had shooted at frontal enemy and catched reaction shoot from the right corner. What does it mean? The night does not give you any tactical advantage, so the nightvision of drones and biosuits is useless. AI soldiers are cheaters ;)
Judging by the sight radius you didn't attack at night though. Check the 'assault'-popup you get when your craft reaches the site - if it doesn't have a small moon in it you're attacking at daylight conditions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 10:58:49 am
Judging by the sight radius you didn't attack at night though. Check the 'assault'-popup you get when your craft reaches the site - if it doesn't have a small moon in it you're attacking at daylight conditions.

There is no mistake - it IS the night (I've been waiting for full dark cover). Assault screen had a small moon. It seems that game mechanics does not work or AI units have some cheats at superhuman difficulty... Same shit with smokes: my units have a vision penalty, enemies' haven't. All these bugs/features decrease tactical variety... This is very sad.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 08, 2019, 12:06:14 pm
I love this mayhem! A huge zombie army.
(Superhuman/ironman)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 12:42:46 pm
I love this mayhem! A huge zombie army.
(Superhuman/ironman)

Wait till assault mission of cults' HQ, he-he :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Ridаn on August 08, 2019, 01:36:10 pm
There is no mistake - it IS the night (I've been waiting for full dark cover). Assault screen had a small moon. It seems that game mechanics does not work or AI units have some cheats at superhuman difficulty... Same shit with smokes: my units have a vision penalty, enemies' haven't. All these bugs/features decrease tactical variety... This is very sad.
Some enemies are scouts and will provide squadsight for enemies defined as snipers, its a feature.
Also there is a fire in 9~ tile radius, your unit is visible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 04:44:27 pm
Some enemies are scouts and will provide squadsight for enemies defined as snipers, its a feature.
Also there is a fire in 9~ tile radius, your unit is visible.

Wow, I thought AI can use direct line of sight only :o I got the point, thanks!

Still, I don't know WTF with smokes... How to use them it the right way? It should be a good defensive device, but enemy can see my soldiers through it! Look at my screenshot in the post above, please.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Ridаn on August 08, 2019, 06:33:21 pm
Wow, I thought AI can use direct line of sight only :o I got the point, thanks!

Still, I don't know WTF with smokes... How to use them it the right way? It should be a good defensive device, but enemy can see my soldiers through it! Look at my screenshot in the post above, please.
There is not enough smoke there, smoke has like 9 levels of density and you need about 3 (almost) fully stacked tiles to break line of sight. There is no way to tell exact density on glance, (and there are different smoke sprites nowdays) so its all about your experience with smokescreen tactics.
Scout-snipers will get you through smoke, and thermovisors will ignore about 30-40% of smoke (if there are any in xcom files), so youll have to adjust your habits for those as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 06:51:38 pm
There is not enough smoke there, smoke has like 9 levels of density and you need about 3 (almost) fully stacked tiles to break line of sight. There is no way to tell exact density on glance, (and there are different smoke sprites nowdays) so its all about your experience with smokescreen tactics.
Scout-snipers will get you through smoke, and thermovisors will ignore about 30-40% of smoke (if there are any in xcom files), so youll have to adjust your habits for those as well.

Looks unpromising... In vanilla UFO and Final Mod Pack smoke was the first thing you should do at the landing place to hide yor first moves. Now its useless even against humans. Very strange...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 07:49:54 pm
There is not enough smoke there, smoke has like 9 levels of density and you need about 3 (almost) fully stacked tiles to break line of sight. There is no way to tell exact density on glance, (and there are different smoke sprites nowdays) so its all about your experience with smokescreen tactics.
Scout-snipers will get you through smoke, and thermovisors will ignore about 30-40% of smoke (if there are any in xcom files), so youll have to adjust your habits for those as well.

Look here http://prntscr.com/oq5egz How would you manage such situation if there were not this puny Dagon fanatics, but elite Red Dawn or EXALTs soldiers?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 08, 2019, 08:14:36 pm
Look here http://prntscr.com/oq5egz How would you manage such situation if there were not this puny Dagon fanatics, but elite Red Dawn or EXALTs soldiers?
Are you playing on superhuman?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 08:41:20 pm
Are you playing on superhuman?

Yes. I've done this assault about 10 minutes ago. I'm just wondering about some ideas how to use smokes in such situations correctly... If it could be so, ofc  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 08, 2019, 09:03:12 pm
Yes. I've done this assault about 10 minutes ago. I'm just wondering about some ideas how to use smokes in such situations correctly... If it could be so, ofc  :)
Please keep in mind that the mod is not balanced for superhuman difficulty.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 08, 2019, 09:43:50 pm
Please keep in mind that the mod is not balanced for superhuman difficulty.

What do you mean it's not balanced? How could it ever be? Difficulty only adds more enemy soldiers and increases their stats, aren't it? What exactly changes this mod so you decide it is unbalanced?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on August 09, 2019, 12:15:36 am
What do you mean it's not balanced? How could it ever be? Difficulty only adds more enemy soldiers and increases their stats, aren't it? What exactly changes this mod so you decide it is unbalanced?

Ending up with enemies that you basically can't harm with most weapons, them appearing before you can have access to such weapons etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 09, 2019, 12:34:28 am
What do you mean it's not balanced? How could it ever be? Difficulty only adds more enemy soldiers and increases their stats, aren't it? What exactly changes this mod so you decide it is unbalanced?
Not me saying it, Solarius has stated multiple times that everyone playing this at Superhuman shouldn't complain about 'unfair' missions. Again, unit stats etc. aren't balanced for anything beyond experienced.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 06:56:38 am
Not me saying it, Solarius has stated multiple times that everyone playing this at Superhuman shouldn't complain about 'unfair' missions. Again, unit stats etc. aren't balanced for anything beyond experienced.

I'm not complaining about 'unfair' missions. I'm complaining about broken mechanics of using smokes. Such thing forces to abandon missions in situations like I've pictured in my post above. If there were elite Red Dawn or EXALT I'd like to abandon mission instantly, because of 1-2 grenades which are using by RD and EX regulary will put the point in this question :D

I've met just one 'unfair' mission before (in my last walkthrough of 0.9.9c) when there was attack to my base in August of 1999. Sectoids and cyberdisks are normal and destructable by default weapons, but only one sectopod - SECTOPOD with sectoids in 1999 :o - ruined all my efforts, so the base was lost. But for that moment I thought it is some kind of feature: inevitable loosing of base or smth like that. Now I know it is not a feature, but 'unfairness' of the mod ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 09, 2019, 12:00:17 pm
Comrades, tell me, please:
1. If I sit down, will it be harder to hit me?
2. If you hide behind a tree or other object, does it somehow affect the probability of getting into me?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 12:10:16 pm
Comrades, tell me, please:
1. If I sit down, will it be harder to hit me?
2. If you hide behind a tree or other object, does it somehow affect the probability of getting into me?

In my humble game experience (IMHGE):
1. No. It's just increasing your accuracy. This also decreasing your height, so if you have appropriate obstacle ahead, your unit will be lost in sight.
2. No. If enemy see you, his accuracy does not change, but I think that elevation do. If you are upper than enemy (on the hill, for example), he has lesser chances to hit. The same is for your soldiers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 09, 2019, 12:36:04 pm
I'm understood, thank you!
Will I be able to generate income in the future by producing something in the workshops?
Because right now I have hired 3 engineers so that they open the boxes with weapons and ammunition (an interesting idea).
But I have nothing to produce for sale.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 02:18:20 pm
I'm understood, thank you!
Will I be able to generate income in the future by producing something in the workshops?
Because right now I have hired 3 engineers so that they open the boxes with weapons and ammunition (an interesting idea).
But I have nothing to produce for sale.

Of course! Producing in workshops will become main source of money. It would be a good strategy to build one base for industrial specialization with 2-3 large workshops. It's not only profitable but useful for urgent producing of something big like aircrafts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 09, 2019, 03:03:11 pm
Yes, I think so too, thanks.
But so far I have only 2 bases: in Europe and North America, and the last base is still undeveloped. I want to save up money for the Biolaboratory to add scientists and study special projects. Therefore, I have stress with money.
I like missions with Zombies - they are quite easy to kill, their corpses are quite expensive and this is a good source of income.

Sometimes small UFOs fly, which land for a short time. But I was afraid to get in touch with them, because I’m still underdeveloped ...
Or maybe they are not so scary and you can send a mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 03:48:07 pm
Yes, I think so too, thanks.
But so far I have only 2 bases: in Europe and North America, and the last base is still undeveloped. I want to save up money for the Biolaboratory to add scientists and study special projects. Therefore, I have stress with money.
I like missions with Zombies - they are quite easy to kill, their corpses are quite expensive and this is a good source of income.

Sometimes small UFOs fly, which land for a short time. But I was afraid to get in touch with them, because I’m still underdeveloped ...
Or maybe they are not so scary and you can send a mission?

Well, it depends of difficulty and your tactical mastery. I play on superhuman and If you ask me, I'd recommend to skip them until you can send at least 8 well-trained agents with ceramic armor and weapon with 30 or more damage (good tactics - 3 snipers (100+ accuracy) with sniper rifles (to make one-shot kills in open space)/ Keep in mind that 3-4 aliens will be waiting for you inside of UFO, so take a 2-3 of your men with shotguns (CAWS is the best). Other units just for scouting and providing squadsight. If you are not confident, just skip them and wait till you get large craft like OSPREY with large team.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 09, 2019, 03:54:00 pm
I read your answer and understanded that it’s too early for me to launch UFO missions. Thank!
I follow the forum, read the changes in the versions, periodically start playing this wonderful mod, play for a while, and then switch to some other game. Vicious circle )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 04:37:24 pm
I read your answer and understanded that it’s too early for me to launch UFO missions. Thank!
I follow the forum, read the changes in the versions, periodically start playing this wonderful mod, play for a while, and then switch to some other game. Vicious circle )

Nothing else is worth your attention except X-Files ;) This mod totally catched me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 09, 2019, 05:48:53 pm
too early for me to launch UFO missions.

There's no such thing.

If you manage to capture a Sectoid corpse in the first 5 hours of the game, that can be a huge boon to research. If you lose 3 rookie agents on average and get one plasma gun, the missions are pure gain as you can buy 5 rookies with that money. UFO missions are absolutely worth it at every phase in the game.

But more than that, it's best to send a crew to EVERY mission. Even if you plan to abort on the first turn, the experience gains from even getting a single kill is very high, and aborting a mission is instant. ALWAYS send a squad to a mission if able. Only exception is the missions with no evac, if your chance of survival is particularly low. Meaning beach, party, snow, etc. Participate in every mission (except those), abort up to half of them if you need to.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 06:25:37 pm
There's no such thing.

If you manage to capture a Sectoid corpse in the first 5 hours of the game, that can be a huge boon to research. If you lose 3 rookie agents on average and get one plasma gun, the missions are pure gain as you can buy 5 rookies with that money. UFO missions are absolutely worth it at every phase in the game.

But more than that, it's best to send a crew to EVERY mission. Even if you plan to abort on the first turn, the experience gains from even getting a single kill is very high, and aborting a mission is instant. ALWAYS send a squad to a mission if able. Only exception is the missions with no evac, if your chance of survival is particularly low. Meaning beach, party, snow, etc. Participate in every mission (except those), abort up to half of them if you need to.

That's a biiiiiiig roulette, man... If you are not playing on the beginner difficulty, of course ;)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 09, 2019, 08:22:03 pm
Durathread Factory Showdown: 
(superhuman/ironman)

I got this crazy idea from the Indian and Chinese people:

(https://steemitimages.com/p/4i88GgGXrYUxcNDPScx1wDPSNJ5SxJzkdg8jbzc5Aq1ut3AkXECxNH7Psi46LfvujciUorM7Wi8HdDVVdch1a8UjMjgo96kts72oAiX4dHW3RKzHgZFL8ELp9L?format=match&mode=fit&width=640)

..
and stormed the Durathread Factory with everybody I got, dogs, droids, chickens, hamsters and all!!       CHAAARGEE!!!   

- Go for the eyes Boo, GO FOR THE EYES!! RrraaaAAGHGHH!!!
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/2/26/Boo_-_Baldur%27s_Gate_2.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/185?cb=20151202210522)
..
I  think, this battle will be fun. :D :D :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 09, 2019, 09:03:39 pm
That's a biiiiiiig roulette, man... If you are not playing on the beginner difficulty, of course ;)

Explain how exactly? The only way you can get your soldiers killed is by 1) reaction fire, which is often only lethal on base or alien missions, or 2) passing the turn (when in visible danger or a monster hunt).

This mod has a few very hard missions but many of them are perfectly safe. I can't really imagine how you guys get by without all that exp. My capped agents who've never been on unsafe missions are a godsend.

Also there's like no lose condition for the first half. Why would you play on anything but superhuman?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 09, 2019, 10:31:11 pm
Explain how exactly? The only way you can get your soldiers killed is by 1) reaction fire, which is often only lethal on base or alien missions, or 2) passing the turn (when in visible danger or a monster hunt).

This mod has a few very hard missions but many of them are perfectly safe. I can't really imagine how you guys get by without all that exp. My capped agents who've never been on unsafe missions are a godsend.

Also there's like no lose condition for the first half. Why would you play on anything but superhuman?

There are a lof danger situations at pre-invasion stage of the game. Danger is depend from drop point of your craft. You could land and be surrounded inicially, and nothing could be done exept abandoning such mess. Hunting for aliens with 4-5 units in kevlar and with Glocks is a roulette. Moreover, there could be a few UFOs in befofe 1999 year (Godlike random). For example, in my current campaign I'm in october 1998 and I had before only two UFOs landing in early 1997 , which were too far to rich them by cars (they,ve just fled away before I got them). Thanks to random I've catched a roaming group of 4 antropods, so I was able to reserach and build alien containment before 1999. If you are so lucky to assault UFOs so often to gain exp and loot from it... Well, you are goddamn lucky, man! :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 10, 2019, 12:16:36 am
You could land and be surrounded inicially, and nothing could be done exept abandoning such mess.

Agreed. I abandon ~50%. Many of those are before the enemy gets a turn, a few are even before I take a turn.

Hunting for aliens with 4-5 units in kevlar and with Glocks is a roulette.

4-5 in kevlar is missing the point. I've suceeded with 2 rookies, both in suits. Of course you bring as many as possible though. The goal is to take a single alien corpse, worth more than double their lives. Wearing kevlar gives maybe a 5% extra chance to survive here, it's not worth the $, much less the TU loss on rookies. I don't bring meds either, just the heaviest weaponry you can get for <10k. Even though the sectoids can frequently 180 and oneshot your soldiers after getting shot, if they miss or you brought a lot of men you can kill one of them in 1-2 turns after spotting them. If they shoot at you and you don't see them, you abort, because you won't be able to overwhelm them. And this will more or less be true whether you send 2 men or 6 after them, hence why doing it with 2 is not so bad: you only win through a lucky surprise attack anyways.

There's definitely a luck factor in getting enough UFO spawns, especially if you don't have a ready private car. Solaris plans to change that though. Anthropods do seem a bit easier, insanely durable but at least they don't kill/notice all your agents before you can react as often.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 10, 2019, 12:45:54 am
Even though the sectoids can frequently 180 and oneshot your soldiers after getting shot, if they miss or you brought a lot of men you can kill one of them in 1-2 turns after spotting them. If they shoot at you and you don't see them, you abort, because you won't be able to overwhelm them. And this will more or less be true whether you send 2 men or 6 after them, hence why doing it with 2 is not so bad: you only win through a lucky surprise attack anyways.
Sectoids have way higher reaction stats than any rookies you could possibly lay your hands on, and you won't be able to one-shot (or probably even two-shot) them with any of the early game weapons since your rookies won't have high enough accuracy/reactions for the weapon bonuses to matter.

However, Sectoids are terrible at melee. Instead of trying to shoot them in the back - which more often than not will end up getting your agents killed - stab them in the back. Or the side. Doesn't really matter as long as you manage to get into CQC range.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 10, 2019, 06:35:49 pm
Is there a way for me to change the 1999 date to something later?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 10, 2019, 08:07:14 pm
Take a look at the vars.rul, i think the starting date should be in there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 10, 2019, 09:08:31 pm
Take a look at the vars.rul, i think the starting date should be in there.

Thanks, found it.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on August 11, 2019, 09:12:37 am
I honestly don't see the difference then - in both cases you're asking for free loot for aliens you didn't fight and who might not have spawned in the first place (seeing how the numbers aren't fixed).
But I fought those aliens - those who did die aren't "free" loot, they didn't become such just because, they were killed by air defences I spent money on and built exactly so they can kill aliens. That's why the effect looks like penalizing the player for using the facilities (air defences) the way they were meant to be used.

And how is shooting down an UFO to salvage it any different from the case we're talking about here? In both cases the UFO get's damages, parts of it are destroyed and crew members are killed. Why should you benefit more from one than from the other?
If you don't see a difference between shooting down an UFO to salvage it and claiming one which landed during base raid, it sounds like by your logic, for the sake of consistency, claiming the latter after the base raid should be a thing.

Again, going by your (or OP's) logic, we should be able to also salvage the UFO after a base assault - which is ridiculous.
Out of curiosity, why do you think it's ridiculous, aside from simply your subjective and arbitrary decision that in one case it should be a thing (salvaging downed UFO) and in the other - not?

I don't see why you should benefit from base attacks at all. In my oppinion there should be no 'free loot' either.
You should benefit from base attacks at all because those are opportunities where source of the benefit comes to you with items and materials that are benefit. I understand you have an opinion but you base your whole argument on "cause I think/say so". Don't you think that such, especially in the context of you questioning my logic in your first "logic much?", just on account of your personal taste, cause you like things in some particular way is needlessly rude and unfitting as an argument?

Yes, losing a base 'is condition of failure' - not losing it means you won. That's the point. The loot is entirely optional and (should) not (be) the point of the mission.
Why is that the point for any other reason than you declaring it to be so? If I'll claim the point is to be just another challenge, with risk, potential profit, danger of failure etc - why is that somehow less viable approach? Cause you have a different opinion? I argued for certain things from the standpoint of consistency and believability (aliens which are dead upon approach toward the base could still yield something to not make not shooting the UFO at all more profitable than damaging it, so it wouldn't encourage less defences and punish player for employing the ones they have if they are already confident they'd defend the base from undamaged UFO with full staff) but you simply force your opinion on me cause you think mine is ridiculous on grounds of you "thinking things" things. I'm fine to agree to disagree but we won't get anywhere further than that in such a way cause you provide absolutely no arguments, merely telling me how you like or dislike things.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 11, 2019, 12:11:41 pm
Military asks help with SpikeBoar Invasion:
(Superhuman/ironman)

The Military asked us to help them with a SpikeBoar Invasion. I threw some 46 units at them. All the ~10 drones and the 8 dogs were killed. The military was pounding the SpikeBoars lazily, their machinegun-APC only killed two monsters at the end of the battle.   It was a total mayhem. My PC slowed down noticeably handling the many units on the battlefield and of course there was immense amount of smoke, many-many corpses & some little fire.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 11, 2019, 12:27:24 pm
But I fought those aliens - those who did die aren't "free" loot, they didn't become such just because, they were killed by air defences I spent money on and built exactly so they can kill aliens. That's why the effect looks like penalizing the player for using the facilities (air defences) the way they were meant to be used.
...which brings us full circle - again. Going by that argument, you should also get full loot when you destroy the UFO - after all, those aliens "were killed by air defences I spent money on and built exactly so they can kill aliens" too, weren't they? See why this doesn't add up? No, you don't get penalized - you're simply fighting less aliens.

And again, how is this supposed to work in-game? Do the surviving aliens drag their dead comrades out of the departing UFO into your hangar bays just so you don't have to feel penalized? I don't think so. This is simply a ridiculous idea you're trying to float, and implementing it would lead to even more inconsistencies.

If you don't see a difference between shooting down an UFO to salvage it and claiming one which landed during base raid, it sounds like by your logic, for the sake of consistency, claiming the latter after the base raid should be a thing.
That's not my logic - i don't think you should be able to do that - but it's a logical extension of what you're proposing. How else are you supposed to be able to claim those bodies&equipment? Either the aliens take time and drag them out of the departing UFO, or you recover them from the UFO that's still sitting above your base - unmanned and defenseless - but somehow isn't part of the recovery.

Tell me, which of those options sounds less ridiculous to you?

How about a third option - one that acutally makes sense - the missing aliens were killed & vaporized upon impact, destroying their bodies&equipment. Problem solved.

Out of curiosity, why do you think it's ridiculous, aside from simply your subjective and arbitrary decision that in one case it should be a thing (salvaging downed UFO) and in the other - not?
Because it would utterly break the game balance, among other things.

You should benefit from base attacks at all because those are opportunities where source of the benefit comes to you with items and materials that are benefit. I understand you have an opinion but you base your whole argument on "cause I think/say so". Don't you think that such, especially in the context of you questioning my logic in your first "logic much?", just on account of your personal taste, cause you like things in some particular way is needlessly rude and unfitting as an argument?
I explicitly said that 'not benefitting from base attacks' was MY opinion. That has nothing to to with your proposition. Stop trying to redirect the argument.

[snip]I'm fine to agree to disagree but we won't get anywhere further than that in such a way cause you provide absolutely no arguments, merely telling me how you like or dislike things.
I've pointed out multiple times why your idea makes no sense, and you have yet to adress the most glaring shortcomings of what you're proposing. I'm not the one having no arguments. You're on thin ice right now, i'd advise you take a step back and actually look at what your proposition would entail.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 11, 2019, 12:29:44 pm
Military asks help with SpikeBoar Invasion:
(Superhuman/ironman)

The Military asked us to help them with a SpikeBoar Invasion. I threw some 46 units at them. All the ~10 drones and the 8 dogs were killed. The military was pounding the SpikeBoars lazily, their machinegun-APC only killed two monsters at the end of the battle.   It was a total mayhem. My PC slowed down noticeably handling the many units on the battlefield and of course there was immense amount of smoke, many-many corpses & some little fire.
Yeah but, then again the mod isn't balanced for higher difficulties. Spike boars are already kind of OP on normal difficulties. What were you expecting? At least on normal it kind of makes sense that military might stand a chance because of their numbers. On higher difficulties it just get's utterly ridiculous.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 11, 2019, 04:20:53 pm
Yeah but, then again the mod isn't balanced for higher difficulties. Spike boars are already kind of OP on normal difficulties. What were you expecting? At least on normal it kind of makes sense that military might stand a chance because of their numbers. On higher difficulties it just get's utterly ridiculous.
I was expecting exactly what I got: nail-biting drama. Trying to avoid a wipeout of my platoon by SpikeBoars.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 11, 2019, 04:23:34 pm
I was expecting exactly what I got: nail-biting drama. Trying to avoid a wipeout of my platoon by SpikeBoars.
So just like early game encounters with spike boars on veteran difficulty then?  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 11, 2019, 05:18:26 pm
Can someone answer me some things?

What exactly does "Training" do?, what does healing spray heal exactly? And how long for agents to usually recover back to max stats?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 11, 2019, 08:51:18 pm
Can someone answer me some things?

What exactly does "Training" do?, what does healing spray heal exactly? And how long for agents to usually recover back to max stats?

1. Training at gym (see yor starting base). There your soldiers will increase their stats  (max. training stats are limited). You can also train your dogs there.
2. Spray heals critical wounds as normal medkit, but with it soldier can heal HIMSELF without help from others. Its emergency help in critical situations. You'll be able to buy big sprays in future after research. They are rather expensive for early period of game, so use them carefully.
3. If you mean health recovery rate, so healing time depends on buldings: biolaboratory and hospital (after you'll research each of them). Without them health recovery rate 1 hp per day. With them 2 per day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 11, 2019, 11:10:24 pm
1. Training at gym (see yor starting base). There your soldiers will increase their stats  (max. training stats are limited). You can also train your dogs there.
2. Spray heals critical wounds as normal medkit, but with it soldier can heal HIMSELF without help from others. Its emergency help in critical situations. You'll be able to buy big sprays in future after research. They are rather expensive for early period of game, so use them carefully.
3. If you mean health recovery rate, so healing time depends on buldings: biolaboratory and hospital (after you'll research each of them). Without them health recovery rate 1 hp per day. With them 2 per day.

Thanks, but for #3 I mean how long for things like TU and other things to heal up? Like see how some of mines missing and red lines I drew on other stats where sometimes the bar isnt full.



https://i.imgur.com/O1go1wH.png (https://i.imgur.com/O1go1wH.png) Here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 12, 2019, 01:03:08 am
https://i.imgur.com/O1go1wH.png (https://i.imgur.com/O1go1wH.png)

Your TUs are reduced due to armor. They will never "heal" unless you take off the armor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Draykoth on August 12, 2019, 09:48:53 am
Thanks, but for #3 I mean how long for things like TU and other things to heal up? Like see how some of mines missing and red lines I drew on other stats where sometimes the bar isnt full.



https://i.imgur.com/O1go1wH.png (https://i.imgur.com/O1go1wH.png) Here.

The time units are reduced from the Kevlar vest, you can see the details in the UFOpedia.
The other stats where you drew red lines, are increases since the soldier was hired, either from training or combat experience.
They are entirely permanent and only serve to show how much better your soldier is since he was recruited.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 12, 2019, 12:54:32 pm
To what values do the characteristics grow during training and how to understand that they will not increase anymore?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 12, 2019, 01:48:32 pm
To what values do the characteristics grow during training and how to understand that they will not increase anymore?
The game will notify you when the training is finished. You can look up and modify the max training stats in the ruleset (soldiers.rul).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 12, 2019, 01:59:22 pm
The game will notify you when the training is finished. You can look up and modify the max training stats in the ruleset (soldiers.rul).

Interestingly, the game somehow prohibits re-training? So that the training place is not taken in vain? I have not yet reached the maximum of characteristics and do not know how the game reacts to this.
Thanks for the answers, you help me a lot!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 12, 2019, 05:36:03 pm
What do you mean, "re-training"? The agents get removed from the training schedule and can't be re-entered as they'Ve reached their max. training stats.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 12, 2019, 07:55:36 pm
Some other questions. So I downloaded the XcomFiles, moved my UFO(not TFTD) stuff to the openxcomExtended folder, but then I read it also needed TFTD stuff? I moved that last night but im like already on year 1998, did this bug anything out?

Also where can I edit the spawn rate of missions? Love the mod but I feel like it throws way too many missions at me one after another, sometimes like 3-4 all on the map at once and this is just with 1 base.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 12, 2019, 08:09:52 pm
Some other questions. So I downloaded the XcomFiles, moved my UFO(not TFTD) stuff to the openxcomExtended folder, but then I read it also needed TFTD stuff?
Where did you read that?

Also where can I edit the spawn rate of missions? Love the mod but I feel like it throws way too many missions at me one after another, sometimes like 3-4 all on the map at once and this is just with 1 base.
IIRC that would be in the missionscripts.rul, but don't ask me how exactely - i'd suggest you read up on the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)). Keep in mind that progression is slow in the beginning, and you probably won't be able to take on every mission that spawns.

BTW what difficulty are you're playing on?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 12, 2019, 08:17:51 pm
Where did you read that?
IIRC that would be in the missionscripts.rul, but don't ask me how exactely - i'd suggest you read up on the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)). Keep in mind that progression is slow in the beginning, and you probably won't be able to take on every mission that spawns.

BTW what difficulty are you're playing on?

Dunno, maybe I read wrong, also im on beginner when im used to veteran but was getting destroyed. Eventually I kept getting Cult Safehouses/Outposts instead of Aprehensions and 4 guy squads were having a real hard time with them, and some monster missions were outright unwinnable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 12, 2019, 09:59:56 pm
You might want to check your research and progression.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 12, 2019, 11:40:52 pm
Jwinsler, you were not getting "destroyed". Many, many missions are outright unwinnable. But the first half of the game is outright unloseable. Abort everything dangerous and you really can't go wrong until 50 hours in. Not how I would prefer the game to be, but that's how it is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 13, 2019, 01:47:33 am
You might want to check your research and progression.

Whats a good path?

Jwinsler, you were not getting "destroyed". Many, many missions are outright unwinnable. But the first half of the game is outright unloseable. Abort everything dangerous and you really can't go wrong until 50 hours in. Not how I would prefer the game to be, but that's how it is.

Okay that makes me happier.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 13, 2019, 02:37:27 am
Pick logistics first, focus on promotions, blackops, research facilities and armor upgrades over fairly usless stuff like a crowbar.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 13, 2019, 06:45:39 am
Pick logistics first, focus on promotions, blackops, research facilities and armor upgrades over fairly usless stuff like a crowbar.

What about weapons? Theres so many early on.

Also what does the XCOM Command center do? Its 3 mil.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 13, 2019, 07:36:09 am
HQ is a small research center that doesn't require any tech and gives a radar bonus. Wouldn't recommend it. You can find this out by clicking the info button on its UFOpaedia page.

Early game weapon progression is generally (but not always) Colt->Deagle/Magnum->BlackOps Rifle->FAL
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 13, 2019, 08:51:31 am
What about weapons? Theres so many early on.

Pistols. Good pistol for the rookies - Beretta (average accu with lowest TU-cost for snat shooting). It's usable till you research BlackOps pistol. Default Magnum is not bad for the beginning (against big targets with low armor and high HP). BlackOps pistol is the best. On mid-range combat its more effective than most of rifles, except UAC rifle.
SMGs. As for me I don't use most of them. Well, if you'll be lucky you can obtain P90 - it is the best (ignores 20% of armor).
Rifles. All of them which use 5,57 caliber bullets - ignores 10% of armor.
Sniper rifles. Well, it's simple - use the most damageable, but remember about accuracy modificator (give them only to that soldiers who have accuracy 80 or higher)
Chainguns. Well, as for me I don't use them except Minigun - it's useful on high populated maps (cult outposts/bases/HQs, Apocalypse).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 13, 2019, 03:01:20 pm
What do you mean, "re-training"? The agents get removed from the training schedule and can't be re-entered as they'Ve reached their max. training stats.
Now I understand, thanks!
Title: Re: X-Com Files Changelog
Post by: Abyss on August 13, 2019, 03:04:18 pm
Hey good man, 
Could you please consider inserting dates for each up next version?
This message self destructs in 3... 2... 1... delete it :D
Title: Re: Re: X-Com Files Changelog
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 13, 2019, 09:27:21 pm
Hey good man, 
Could you please consider inserting dates for each up next version?
This message self destructs in 3... 2... 1... delete it :D

I guess I can, but what do you mean? The zip file?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: tkzv on August 14, 2019, 12:31:05 am
Some other questions. So I downloaded the XcomFiles, moved my UFO(not TFTD) stuff to the openxcomExtended folder, but then I read it also needed TFTD stuff? I moved that last night but im like already on year 1998, did this bug anything out?
No, it doesn't need the original TFTD files. It does use resources based off TFTD, but they are distributed with the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 14, 2019, 03:16:20 am
What benefit is there aside from little writing snippets for researching the same things multiple times? Generally things like Hunting License, and captured alive things?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: tkzv on August 14, 2019, 03:31:06 am
What benefit is there aside from little writing snippets for researching the same things multiple times? Generally things like Hunting License, and captured alive things?
It varies. Among those dossiers and jokes there may be several important items. Cultists usually give weapons and some information about their cult. Alien medics and Syndicate scientists give information about alien species and monsters. Alien engineers and Cyberweb unlock technologies. If you are not afraid of spoilers, middle-click the researchable item to find out. (You may need to allow research tree spoilers in options.)

By the way, several dossiers unlock unique missions with expensive prizes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: thisnameismeta on August 14, 2019, 08:09:32 am
Looks like Iceland can spawn with a funding level of 0, which I think would preclude you from ever getting any funding from that country since funding increases are based on a percentage increase. I know they're a poor nation, but it is a little sad to have a game where they can't ever contribute anything to the global defense effort.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 14, 2019, 08:16:16 am
Looks like Iceland can spawn with a funding level of 0, which I think would preclude you from ever getting any funding from that country since funding increases are based on a percentage increase. I know they're a poor nation, but it is a little sad to have a game where they can't ever contribute anything to the global defense effort.

But they have the Eyjafjallajökull! That's more precious than money :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 14, 2019, 09:34:06 am
Looks like Iceland can spawn with a funding level of 0, which I think would preclude you from ever getting any funding from that country since funding increases are based on a percentage increase. I know they're a poor nation, but it is a little sad to have a game where they can't ever contribute anything to the global defense effort.
Apparently not only Iceland, but some of the other 'new' countries as well. Would you kindly re-post that in the bug thread? I'd report it myself, but i think i've reached my submission limit...

BTW, is there any way to atop those 'suspicious clinic' mission atm? I don't mind getting a crap ton of loot, by i swear that clinic is a fucking clown car in disguise and the only remedy is to nuke it from orbit...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 09:53:06 am
SLOWDOWN FIX:

The game was noticeably slowing down "almost to a crawl" that was impeding gameplay. Here is the fix I found:

There are too many checks in the probably unoptimized code for constantly - I mean every couple frames - to check the state of most equipment??!  WTH?? Lot of equipment lying on the floor of any craft is an FPS hog!

As a consequence:
You might notice during equipment loadout and on Battlescape your game has suddenly slowed down considerably.

To fix this:

While you are still on the base, press ALT+CTRL+X to clear all junk from your ship - Voilá! Instant SpeedUp - and then for the mission only pack the very few belongings you need: medipacks, grenades, maybe some ammo, but just a little heap!

As a result the game will be lightning fast again!!  I noticed this on a big map with many monsters & lots of units and smoke/fire explosions.  I thought it was my many units. No! Just heaps of stuff left lying on the ground in my mudranger!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 14, 2019, 10:45:51 am
SLOWDOWN FIX:

The game was noticeably slowing down "almost to a crawl" that was impeding gameplay. Here is the fix I found:

There are too many checks in the probably unoptimized code for constantly - I mean every couple frames - to check the state of most equipment??!  WTH?? Lot of equipment lying on the floor of any craft is an FPS hog!

As a consequence:
You might notice during equipment loadout and on Battlescape your game has suddenly slowed down considerably.

To fix this:

While you are still on the base, press ALT+CTRL+X to clear all junk from your ship - Voilá! Instant SpeedUp - and then for the mission only pack the very few belongings you need: medipacks, grenades, maybe some ammo, but just a little heap!

As a result the game will be lightning fast again!!  I noticed this on a big map with many monsters & lots of units and smoke/fire explosions.  I thought it was my many units. No! Just heaps of stuff left lying on the ground in my mudranger!!
Curious, but are you sure it's the equipment causing slowdown, not the maps themselves? I've never experienced any noticable slowdown because of "too much" equipment - only on maps that are 'complex' (i.e. multiple levels, many different tilesets etc.).

Otherwise base defense missions should lag the game out like nothing else, but they don't.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 12:11:26 pm
Curious, but are you sure it's the equipment causing slowdown, not the maps themselves? I've never experienced any noticable slowdown because of "too much" equipment - only on maps that are 'complex' (i.e. multiple levels, many different tilesets etc.).

Otherwise base defense missions should lag the game out like nothing else, but they don't.

No. Tested it. As soon as I leave ~ 40 .. 100 pieces of stacked equipment on the floor of my craft the game starts to slow down = cursors lags, etc.. 
As soon as I clear out all equipment, the cursor moves again lightning fast and the game is back to its original speed.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 12:19:53 pm
@Solarius Scorch:  I noticed, when I put even one black grenade onto a German shepherd dog, its weight goes immediately from 1 to 3 in red ==> the dogs TUs are down to 30% of the original 100%.  This was a highly unfortunate decision to put it politely.
 This tells me that strong dog breed cannot even handle to carry one grenade without slowing down???  Those dogs are super strong and can carry even a gallon of water!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 14, 2019, 12:32:06 pm
No. Tested it. As soon as I leave ~ 40 .. 100 pieces of stacked equipment on the floor of my craft the game starts to slow down = cursors lags, etc.. 
As soon as I clear out all equipment, the cursor moves again lightning fast and the game is back to its original speed.

100 items
or
100 stacks of (many) items?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 12:50:11 pm
100 items
or
100 stacks of (many) items?

One page of equipment, where mainly high explosives, dynamites, grenades, stimms, healing stuff stack. Some guns, etc.. I'll give you  save so you can check.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 14, 2019, 01:02:35 pm
@Solarius Scorch:  I noticed, when I put even one black grenade onto a German shepherd dog, its weight goes immediately from 1 to 3 in red ==> the dogs TUs are down to 30% of the original 100%.  This was a highly unfortunate decision to put it politely.
 This tells me that strong dog breed cannot even handle to carry one grenade without slowing down???  Those dogs are super strong and can carry even a gallon of water!
IIRC this is for game balancing reasons. Dogs aren't supposed to carry items. You can change the stats in the rul-files.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 14, 2019, 01:04:18 pm
One page of equipment, where mainly high explosives, dynamites, grenades, stimms, healing stuff stack. Some guns, etc.. I'll give you  save so you can check.
Yeah, please upload the save. As far as i can tell we're notalking about the same lags/slowdowns, as in my case mouse movement isn't affected at all. This sounds like a different issue.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 03:02:39 pm
100 items
or
100 stacks of (many) items?

This equipment lying there "on the floor" caused the game & cursor movement to lag: especially the Battlescape was slow!!

(https://i.imgur.com/KPA0VFu.png)
..

Deleting all unused equipment speeds the game up nicely:

(https://i.imgur.com/U9vgNMd.png)
..


This much unused equipment on the ready is OK. Doesn't slow down the game during equipment phase and or Battlescape

(https://i.imgur.com/O8nh3iN.png)


But I have usually this many soldiers, seen on pic.
46 was the max, I think,  I fielded for a large numbers SpikeBOar monster hunt on a large map:

So if the game-code does LOOPS for every soldier and its usually a non-issue, that is because standard squad sizes are tiny, a dozen max.
But in my case: the game-code always doing  loops  for my large platoon size  - it may already lower FPS, but not yet to a noticeable degree. 

The key slowdown is happening, because of unused equipment code-loops!

(https://i.imgur.com/jhVoqzk.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 14, 2019, 03:05:28 pm
There is no way to reliably recreate the issue by what you've posted. This might be related to terrain or battlescape effects as well, bugged items etc.

Please upload the save in question.

Also, the mudranger has a max. capacity of 12 soldiers, not of 46 or however many you're trying to cram inside. Is this really a issue with the mod? This might belong into OXCE or general development.

Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 03:09:24 pm
There is no way to reliably recreate the issue by what you've posted. This might be related to terrain or battlescape effects as well, bugged items etc.

Please upload the save in question.

The top three pics are from the Geoscape. Select  BASE ==>  EQUIP CRAFT  screen. 
43 soldiers and this much equipment will slow down any map.    As you can see, there are clearly extra loops in the  code section   "listing & checking equipment lying on the ground"  either on base or on Battlescape.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 14, 2019, 03:43:11 pm
Just going through this now - the mod enforces storage limits and limits craft capacity. You've overriden both - why, just to enforce this bug? Also, your mudranger fuel is at...700%? Just to be clear, what other modifications have you added to the base mod?

EDIT:
Even with all items added to the mudranger, the only lag i get is in the loadout screen, and even then it's not much. Absolutley no lag/stuttering on the battlescape. I'd like to add that this an utterly excessive amount of items we're talking about here. Again, this is an issue with OXC/OXCE, not with the mod itself.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 14, 2019, 07:06:34 pm
Solarius's idea of a "Man in Black"-car that only takes two or four agents is brilliant!! That feature made me instantly like this mod, despite the disappointing and boring early beginning that promised the dry feeling of a cold war era spy story. But things sped up nicely. The van is also excellent choice, as is the helicopter and any airborne solutions.

However, I'm a game developer and as I'm not smoking any weed or taking any pills / drugs as masses of peeps do in the US habitually as easily as they are breathing air, I need frequent emotional UPs or highs to energize my willingness to do hard work, which only enhanced drama provides. I wanted multiple squads that is normally transported by a small "motorized WW2 column".  This style is even more fun, when lots of rookies are swooping down on the enemy and only using looted weaponry!

This creates a super-mayhem situation with massive carnage. Lots of corpses, screaming and gloriously fun Mass Panic in case of responding to a Beach Mission with 40 rookies in swim suits, where at least 7-8 of my agents are screaming and running around in panic at each turn begin - as the enemy begins to decimate them.


Just going through this now - the mod enforces storage limits and limits craft capacity. You've overriden both - why, just to enforce this bug? Also, your mudranger fuel is at...700%? Just to be clear, what other modifications have you added to the base mod?

EDIT:
Even with all items added to the mudranger, the only lag i get is in the loadout screen, and even then it's not much. Absolutley no lag/stuttering on the battlescape. I'd like to add that this an utterly excessive amount of items we're talking about here. Again, this is an issue with OXC/OXCE, not with the mod itself.
Any inventory limits - especially in party based RPGs is a bad design choice, despite whining about "realism": humans evolved  to hoard loot and its maximal fun. If a customer buys a game that is limited in many ways to make the fruit sour, - its like finding hair in a beautiful and super-tasty birthday cake - where is the fun? Where is the release of stress?  Limits like this only create more stress in the player, where the player already collected more than enough stress at the workplace to destroy human health.  Advancing age shows this clearly.  Drama situations are fun to a limit and young players are ignorantly able to soak in a lot more stress ==> to their detriment. As later turns out!

The mudranger original range is a joke: its completely unplayable, unless some target pops up right beside the base, simply a bad design choice. Paying customers would have already requested range-increase if this "game" was sold on Steam.  I couldn't get to any location with it. Even with the 'Upgrayedd' Mudranger. This way at least I have a troops transporter that works in early game: clear intuitive design choice that works.

Mentioned slowdown:
My CPU 10 year old. That might be, why it is lagging on not super-optimized code.
Of course its the main engine that has some room left for optimization: the mod only defines rules. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: SparroHawc on August 14, 2019, 11:45:47 pm
Whether or not you feel it detracts from the game, the limitations exist for a reason - and only by breaking those limitations were you able to get the game to slow down.  Heck, the original X-Com straight-up restricted you to 80 items total for any encounter.  I don't think anyone's going to look very hard at fixing this - least of all Scorch.

That said, you might try posting in the OXC / OXCE programmer sections specifically if you found inefficient code.  Or if you're feeling really generous, you could make a fix yourself and submit a pull request.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on August 15, 2019, 12:52:08 am
well apart from that ridiculous abuse, the mudranger range is unusably low, airborne version too.
why bother to get a transport (no matter how large) if you can use it for 2% of the missions...

what´d be cool though, a range indicator (if limit < earth circumference).
i *HATE* it to send a heli to a mission to have it turn around on low fuel on literally the last 10 pixels. happens way too often, no matter how good i guess...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 15, 2019, 01:07:00 am
what´d be cool though, a range indicator (if limit < earth circumference).
i *HATE* it to send a heli to a mission to have it turn around on low fuel on literally the last 10 pixels. happens way too often, no matter how good i guess...

there is a range indicator already... each time a craft takes off from the base you can see how far it can get... attached screenshot of how far a mudranger can go for example
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Jwinsler on August 15, 2019, 01:52:04 am
there is a range indicator already... each time a craft takes off from the base you can see how far it can get... attached screenshot of how far a mudranger can go for example

How do I enable this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 15, 2019, 01:59:50 am
How do I enable this?

it's always enabled
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on August 15, 2019, 03:50:40 am
hm, kinda not sure if i remember ever seeing it. Maybe once as i tried out the mudrangers, something does ring a bell...
Doesn't seem to work from the intercept menu of missions / popups though.
Would be awesome to have a check there, e.g. "its too far away for the selected vehicle" or something like that.
Dunno how the majority of people is launching, but ~100% of the time i use the intercept menu on mission site / popups.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: SparroHawc on August 15, 2019, 04:21:16 am
hm, kinda not sure if i remember ever seeing it. Maybe once as i tried out the mudrangers, something does ring a bell...
Doesn't seem to work from the intercept menu of missions / popups though.
Would be awesome to have a check there, e.g. "its too far away for the selected vehicle" or something like that.
Dunno how the majority of people is launching, but ~100% of the time i use the intercept menu on mission site / popups.

I always click on the base, pick the vehicle I want, then click on the target.  That way I can 1) see if the vehicle is in range, and 2) I never pick the wrong base.

I suspect others have the same experience.

Definitely agree that there should be a warning...  You may want to bring it up in the OXC suggestions or OXCE forum.  Seems the sort of thing that should be built into the engine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 15, 2019, 02:06:21 pm
Solarius, would you mind rising the mission despawn time for terror missions, or across the whole board? In a first for me, I recently had a terror mission despawn which my skymarshall couldn't reach despite deploying derictly after the site popped up. I don't mind taking on every terro mission even it means injured or killed agents, but at least give us the chance to reach it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 15, 2019, 04:08:24 pm
Krautbend mission despawn times are random so in order to do that he would have to make the average like double the desired minimum.

Mission despawns mid-flight do really annoy me though, I spend all this time setting up for no fight at all. Sometimes I'll send an empty skyranger to find out if I should even bother then reload the save. If I had a mod mission despawns would be like a week.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 15, 2019, 05:59:08 pm
Krautbend mission despawn times are random so in order to do that he would have to make the average like double the desired minimum.

Mission despawns mid-flight do really annoy me though, I spend all this time setting up for no fight at all. Sometimes I'll send an empty skyranger to find out if I should even bother then reload the save. If I had a mod mission despawns would be like a week.
Code: [Select]
alienDeployments -> duration
[min, max] -- Minimum and maximum duration of this mission on the Geoscape (in hours).

Unless i'm looking at the wrong missions, terror sites currently have a lower bound of 4 hours, which seems a bit unfair.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 15, 2019, 08:31:46 pm
Hm. I coulda sworn...
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on August 15, 2019, 08:40:42 pm
...which brings us full circle - again. Going by that argument, you should also get full loot when you destroy the UFO
No, when the UFO is destroyed, it's understandable some of it may be not recoverable. Items of crewmember stashed inside the UFO however seem less befitting that logic.

after all, those aliens "were killed by air defences I spent money on and built exactly so they can kill aliens" too, weren't they? See why this doesn't add up? No, you don't get penalized - you're simply fighting less aliens.
Yes, we go full circle as I already pointed out - by denying one loot (or any equivalent) together with the enemy carrying it, it's like a penalty for the player for whom the live alien who'd carry those items wouldn't pose a threat worth denying oneself the loot.

And again, how is this supposed to work in-game?
Random number of alien resources is added to the after-mission loot pool, defined as some of the recovered scrap from where UFO sustained damage, spewing random bits due to AA defence impacts/explosions.

Do the surviving aliens drag their dead comrades out of the departing UFO into your hangar bays just so you don't have to feel penalized? I don't think so. This is simply a ridiculous idea you're trying to float, and implementing it would lead to even more inconsistencies.
You ask a question, then make your own silly answer and then you use that strawman to supposedly debunk my take on it. Spare me that - I understand you may not like or agree with it, but please muster some intellectual honesty. Strawmanning through certainly won't lead us anywhere good.

That's not my logic - i don't think you should be able to do that - but it's a logical extension of what you're proposing.
Then your logic is flawed, given how much easier it was to find an explanation far more sensible than your corpse-dragging idea.

How else are you supposed to be able to claim those bodies&equipment? Either the aliens take time and drag them out of the departing UFO, or you recover them from the UFO that's still sitting above your base - unmanned and defenseless - but somehow isn't part of the recovery.
Or it's not actual guns but some equivalent in resources.

Tell me, which of those options sounds less ridiculous to you?
Both have their flaws, which is why I provided a better one just now.

How about a third option - one that acutally makes sense - the missing aliens were killed & vaporized upon impact, destroying their bodies&equipment. Problem solved.
Which sounds passable but leads us back to the problem of penalty, while the above idea addresses that while still not being illogical.
 
Because it would utterly break the game balance, among other things.
Only if you'd do it wrong. At the point of the game, where the player is expected to also be able to recover UFOs, some materials and items from damaged invasion craft wouldn't break the game's balance.

I explicitly said that 'not benefitting from base attacks' was MY opinion. That has nothing to to with your proposition. Stop trying to redirect the argument.
I am not redirecting argument, I point out that your supposed opinion is your opinion, but it's not a premise I agree on and so I won't be basing my claims on it. You can approach it however you want but the fact is there are players who don't mind base defence due to potential loot from invading parties they can acquire.

I've pointed out multiple times why your idea makes no sense,
Which I heard the first time and addressed.

and you have yet to adress the most glaring shortcomings of what you're proposing.
As I did.

I'm not the one having no arguments.
I understand you disagree with my claims but that doesn't change my stance.

You're on thin ice right now, i'd advise you take a step back and actually look at what your proposition would entail.
Thin ice how? What position you are to issue such kind of warnings/threats? Again, you may disagree, but I would recommend to limit high-and-mighty attitude. No matter if my idea is agreeable or not, I do not reach for fallacies, I do not attempt to ridicule you and I certainly do not issue warning nor threats and I expect the same from you on a public forum. If you cannot do so, maybe it would be beneficial to listen to your advice about taking a step back. If this is to be about escalation, after all, we're both wasting our time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 15, 2019, 09:31:23 pm
So, let me sum this up - in order to not have to adress the glaring issue of aliens dragging their dead comrades into your base, your proposal is that you should get 'some form of resources' to offset your perceived penalty? What kind of resources? And from where? From the vaporized parts of the UFO that took off? In that case you should get even more resources from supposedly destroyed UFOs if they apparently just rain down from the sky. If you recover a downed UFO you don't magically get the same amount of resources as from a landed UFO. Parts and bodies that were destroyed are lost. Why should this be handled any differently? If you destroy parts of the UFO and it's occupants you don't get that part of the loot.

Protip: It's not a strawn man argument if you have to go through the trouble to explain it away for your idea to work.

How does you proposed explanation make any more sense than not giving players resources for enemies that simply didn't spawn? Nobody is forcing you build base defences in the first place - if anything you're the one building a strawn man argument on being forced to endure this. You don't. Players that 'enjoy base defense mission' can simply refrain from building base defence structures or deactivate them when they get attacked. You are not being penalized by being forced to fight less enemies since nobody forces you to fight less enemies. Turn your proposal around, players might not want to be rewarded for enemies they didn't fight and because your idea is simply ridiculous and doesn't make sense in-game. What about them?

As for you calling me out on 'perceived threats' - maybe actually adress my arguments instead pretending they don't exist? People don't take too kindly to that.

And my warning was exactly that - a warning. Not a threat. I told you to take a step back and actually look at what your proposal would entail. Because as far as i can tell it get's more complicated the closer you look at it. You've gone from 'i want to have the loot of the enemies i didn't fight' to 'i need to create a separate loot table for the parts of the UFO i just blew up'. It's not going to end there. And you need to actually find a way to implement this - as far as i can tell this is beyond the scope of XCF. You'd need to add that functionality to OXCE.

We can continue this if you want, and will continue to point out why your idea is inherently flawed, inconsistent and not worth the effort to implement.

Instead I'd suggest you simply deactivate the feature instead. Problem solved.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: tkzv on August 16, 2019, 01:47:31 am
Krautbend mission despawn times are random so in order to do that he would have to make the average like double the desired minimum.
Is it possible to simply set terror despawn time and conditions the same as in vanilla game? What's the point of altering them?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 16, 2019, 05:35:18 pm
Is it possible to simply set terror despawn time and conditions the same as in vanilla game? What's the point of altering them?
...i just had a look, those are the vanilla times. I just got a very unlucky spawn as far as I can tell. Still, i think 4 hours is kind of unbalanced, given the progression in XCF is quite different from vanilla.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 21, 2019, 06:04:48 pm
Guys, can someone decrypt these mystical symbols for me?  :D
I heard that they display some kind of research length, but I haven't found any true info about that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 21, 2019, 06:27:06 pm
Compare the symbols to the reasearch costs listed in the research.rul - voilà, there's your answer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 21, 2019, 07:26:18 pm
Compare the symbols to the reasearch costs listed in the research.rul - voilà, there's your answer.
I found it, thanks. But still cannot understand, wtf is this! :o
Whay is 'points' means? And 'cost'?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 21, 2019, 09:14:07 pm
Ruleset -> research (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 21, 2019, 10:28:00 pm
I've been looking for how to find Alien Electronics, it seems I can find them on Alien_Rank2 and Orison nests. Which mission is Orison nest and I presume alien rank 2 are engineers? If so that means there is a 20% chance to find alien electronics on engineers?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 22, 2019, 12:11:55 am
I've been looking for how to find Alien Electronics, it seems I can find them on Alien_Rank2 and Orison nests. Which mission is Orison nest and I presume alien rank 2 are engineers? If so that means there is a 20% chance to find alien electronics on engineers?
Osiron, and they don't necessarily spawn on every mission, nor do all engineers carry alien electronics (look at the possible itemsets in aliendeployments - usually only one of them inlcudes electronics). Also:
The only sure way is to disassemble certain enemies units. Again, if you want to spoil yourself you can search the rul-files for alien_electronics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 22, 2019, 01:14:18 am
I found it, thanks. But still cannot understand, wtf is this! :o
Whay is 'points' means? And 'cost'?

 Cost = Number of man-days (on average, the final time will be 50-150% this value) required to complete this project. If he's right, the symbols just represent an approximation of that cost. Kinda wish they were just numbers though.

Point is the score you get for free for researching technologies, which in turn makes nations like you more, which in turn gives you more monthly income. In XFiles it's not very important, more of a theme thing. As the UFOpaedia says, countries will like you more if you have intel to share with them, especially dossiers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 22, 2019, 02:29:44 am
Cost = Number of man-days (on average, the final time will be 50-150% this value) required to complete this project. If he's right, the symbols just represent an approximation of that cost. Kinda wish they were just numbers though.

FYI, see https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/oxce-plus/src/Basescape/TechTreeViewerState.cpp, starting at line 267
Code: [Select]
// Cost indicator
{
std::ostringstream ss;
int cost = rule->getCost();
std::vector<std::pair<int, std::string>> symbol_values
({{100, "#"}, {20, "="}, {5, "-"}});
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 22, 2019, 09:38:08 am
FYI, see https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/oxce-plus/src/Basescape/TechTreeViewerState.cpp, starting at line 267
Code: [Select]
// Cost indicator
{
std::ostringstream ss;
int cost = rule->getCost();
std::vector<std::pair<int, std::string>> symbol_values
({{100, "#"}, {20, "="}, {5, "-"}});

So, if I have research with ##### and 40 scientists the research will be completed at 13 days about?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 22, 2019, 10:06:38 am
So, if I have research with ##### and 40 scientists the research will be completed at 13 days about?
On average. The final time will be between 50-150% of that value, as per game mechanic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 22, 2019, 11:03:15 am
On average. The final time will be between 50-150% of that value, as per game mechanic.

Now I got point, thank you very much!
So long time I've been playing the game and noticed this feature only now... Crap :-\
This info will help me to optimize scientists' assignment along projects.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 22, 2019, 11:36:46 am
Yeah, i think it's an extremely useful feature, given the number of research projects there are in xcf (or other mods for that matter).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 23, 2019, 05:53:53 am
IIRC Solarius actually doesn't like the tech tree. Maybe because he doesn't want all his filler/flavor/dossier techs being tagged as such the first time around... or just because he wanted more complex tech unlocks that a tree doesn't properly represent.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 25, 2019, 05:21:42 pm
Guys, sorry for disappearing for 20 days. I was, well, busy. I hope you'll forgive me, it's summer after all.
To my defence, I modded quite a bit. 1.0 is coming... Slowly.

Let me respond to the posts below. It will be brief, so feel free to ask for clarifications.

What's the name of the modified doom song with the sounds of battle being part of the music itself?

I think you mean "At Doom's Gate", by Robert Prince. It's from "DOOM" OST.
I couldn't find this particular version on YouTube, though. I have the mp3s from somewhere, long ago.

Beach / Swimsuit mission: no escape  (Superhuman/ironman)

What is the purpose of this mission?  Four of my agents are allowed in swimsuits. There were at least 8 gang members with automatic weapons and they moved down my squad.  I had dart rifles and managed to tranquilize two of them.

The purpose is to have a fun mission with good loot. If it's too hard for you, decrease your difficulty or ignore it. Osiron missions are pretty much extras anyway.
As usual, Krautbernd's advice is pretty good.

Having said that, it's not like the game is impossible or even not recommended on superhuman... But it's meant to be pretty masochistic.

SMOKES!!!

Is there any hope for the fixing of smoke grenades? Typical situation: my agents sitting in the smoked area, and MY guys can't see anything while enemies can see them and shoot with no penalty accuracy! WTF??? Look at this http://prntscr.com/opoflg
He can see me and I can't! How could that be???

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.

This generally applies to aliens and a few other forces. Against ordinary humans smoke works fine, but aliens have advanced vision modes which allow them to partially negate the smoke.
Making more smoke should help (no kill like overkill), unless the enemy in question has psi vision, in which case nothing can be done.
Ridаn is right.

Night missions

I'm always wait till daytime to begin mission... Today I've decided to go into the NIGH. And what is the result? Have a look http://prntscr.com/opvznx

Here is my soldier. He had shooted at frontal enemy and catched reaction shoot from the right corner. What does it mean? The night does not give you any tactical advantage, so the nightvision of drones and biosuits is useless. AI soldiers are cheaters ;)

No, Red Dawn simply coordinates its actions, like the player does. ;)
This is the whole point of the sniper/spotter mechanics. If a units with a "spotter" flag sees an enemy, it communicates their location to to all units with the "sniper" tag. This allows enemy snipers to shoot at targets they normally wouldn't see, though with a hefty penalty of -50% accuracy.
Out of the 4 initial cults, Red Dawn is arguably the best at this, with many units having these tags.

I love this mayhem! A huge zombie army.
(Superhuman/ironman)

Good. I realize many people think it's a chore to kill so many zombies, but I personally enjoy a large battle once in a while.

Looks unpromising... In vanilla UFO and Final Mod Pack smoke was the first thing you should do at the landing place to hide yor first moves. Now its useless even against humans. Very strange...

Nah, it's fine against most humans, as long as there are no snipers.

Comrades, tell me, please:
1. If I sit down, will it be harder to hit me?

It depends, but if it helps, then only marginally. However, if kneeling hides you completely from enemy sight, then you're safe.

2. If you hide behind a tree or other object, does it somehow affect the probability of getting into me?

Yes, but don't count on it too much.

Yeah but, then again the mod isn't balanced for higher difficulties. Spike boars are already kind of OP on normal difficulties. What were you expecting? At least on normal it kind of makes sense that military might stand a chance because of their numbers. On higher difficulties it just get's utterly ridiculous.

With all due respect, I don't think spikeboars are very hard. At last not in forests, where they're usually found. Just stay under the canopies and they won't be able to target you.
Now, if it's open terrain... Ouch.

It varies. Among those dossiers and jokes there may be several important items. Cultists usually give weapons and some information about their cult. Alien medics and Syndicate scientists give information about alien species and monsters. Alien engineers and Cyberweb unlock technologies. If you are not afraid of spoilers, middle-click the researchable item to find out. (You may need to allow research tree spoilers in options.)

By the way, several dossiers unlock unique missions with expensive prizes.

All true, but also note that all research grants points.

Looks like Iceland can spawn with a funding level of 0, which I think would preclude you from ever getting any funding from that country since funding increases are based on a percentage increase. I know they're a poor nation, but it is a little sad to have a game where they can't ever contribute anything to the global defense effort.

Thanks. I'll fix this. Hopefully 20 will high enough for the minimum (now is 15).
For now, I suggest editing your save file and give Iceland something more than 0.

@Solarius Scorch:  I noticed, when I put even one black grenade onto a German shepherd dog, its weight goes immediately from 1 to 3 in red ==> the dogs TUs are down to 30% of the original 100%.  This was a highly unfortunate decision to put it politely.
 This tells me that strong dog breed cannot even handle to carry one grenade without slowing down???  Those dogs are super strong and can carry even a gallon of water!

It's abstracted, of course. It's not like the dog can't carry a grenade, but it has no hands and running around with a load slows it down considerably.
Training your dog will alleviate the issue.

However, I'm a game developer and as I'm not smoking any weed or taking any pills / drugs as masses of peeps do in the US habitually as easily as they are breathing air, I need frequent emotional UPs or highs to energize my willingness to do hard work

Darn, I should stop making mods for drug addicts and assorted riffraff.
THIS IS A GOOD CHRISTIAN MOD! :P

The mudranger original range is a joke: its completely unplayable

No, you just can't use it properly. ;)

Mentioned slowdown:
My CPU 10 year old. That might be, why it is lagging on not super-optimized code.
Of course its the main engine that has some room left for optimization: the mod only defines rules.

My CPU is just as old. No special issues.

Solarius, would you mind rising the mission despawn time for terror missions, or across the whole board? In a first for me, I recently had a terror mission despawn which my skymarshall couldn't reach despite deploying derictly after the site popped up. I don't mind taking on every terro mission even it means injured or killed agents, but at least give us the chance to reach it.

Maybe a little, but there's a limit on how much I can increase the times and stay somewhat believable.
The time is randomized, so I increased the minima - should help.

I've been looking for how to find Alien Electronics, it seems I can find them on Alien_Rank2 and Orison nests. Which mission is Orison nest and I presume alien rank 2 are engineers? If so that means there is a 20% chance to find alien electronics on engineers?

You can also tear down alien robots to get Alien Electronics.
It's meant to be rare. In fact, it's easier to obtain now than any time before.

Also, as an extra, some proof that I haven't been just bumming around. ;)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 25, 2019, 06:05:55 pm
Also, as an extra, some proof that I haven't been just bumming around. ;)

So, the space missions are coming and UAC weapons will be in great demand? ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on August 26, 2019, 12:33:59 am
I think you mean "At Doom's Gate", by Robert Prince. It's from "DOOM" OST.
I couldn't find this particular version on YouTube, though. I have the mp3s from somewhere, long ago.

Figures. Thanks for the answer!


No, Red Dawn simply coordinates its actions, like the player does. ;)
This is the whole point of the sniper/spotter mechanics. If a units with a "spotter" flag sees an enemy, it communicates their location to to all units with the "sniper" tag. This allows enemy snipers to shoot at targets they normally wouldn't see, though with a hefty penalty of -50% accuracy.
Out of the 4 initial cults, Red Dawn is arguably the best at this, with many units having these tags.

Does this have an Ufopaedia article? This mechanic should have one, as well as the hunter-killer ufos if they don't already.


Also, as an extra, some proof that I haven't been just bumming around. ;)

Moon missions, yay! To be fair, I cheat and I snoop the Github directory from time to time. Will the 1.0 version have the

lol moon nazis!

arc completed, or will it be a few random missions since it's kind of a joke arc? What about the ghost-busters one?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on August 26, 2019, 10:30:25 am
So, let me sum this up - in order to not have to adress the glaring issue of aliens dragging their dead comrades into your base
Which is an issue only if you literally implement it as aliens dragging their comrades into your base. I certainly didn't argue for it being posed as aliens dragging the corpses onto battlefield for some reason, I have not suggested corpses of dead crewmembers being on the battlefield at all. Why are you?

your proposal is that you should get 'some form of resources' to offset your perceived penalty? What kind of resources? And from where? From the vaporized parts of the UFO that took off? In that case you should get even more resources from supposedly destroyed UFOs if they apparently just rain down from the sky.
Yes, from UFO and even more that what? Even more than not getting any resources due to being unable to damage an UFO? Certainly. More than an option of retrieving a whole UFO? Not at all.

If you recover a downed UFO you don't magically get the same amount of resources as from a landed UFO. Parts and bodies that were destroyed are lost. Why should this be handled any differently? If you destroy parts of the UFO and it's occupants you don't get that part of the loot.
Mechanics and balance consideration. You can also have severely damaged UFO downed in regular rerieval mission and still get some bits, suggesting that there is some salvage as long as the damaged parts can be retrieved at all. Base assaults are already handled differently and without consistency to the rest of UFO encounters with having that severely damaged UFO always be able to hover, drop assault troopers at tactical locations and then leave unmolested further.

Protip: It's not a strawn man argument if you have to go through the trouble to explain it away for your idea to work.
But it is a strawman argument when you try to force some claims as mine and then build your defence on their basis.

How does you proposed explanation make any more sense than not giving players resources for enemies that simply didn't spawn?
By making it a mechanics that makes damaging of assaulting UFOs purely beneficial, rather than leading to situation where setting up defences while you can defend a base against full set of enemies simply means you'll get less of them/loot if you won't be able to fully take down the UFO.

Nobody is forcing you build base defences in the first place - if anything you're the one building a strawn man argument on being forced to endure this.
What you define as strawman argument is not. It is slightly insulting and only makes discussing harder when you keep misusing the term. I certainly didn't say that you make an argument on being forced to endure aspect of a game, which then would make it a strawman argument. Strawman argument however is in your claim I have some issue with being able to play base defence missions, rather than an aspect of its balance - and arguing from that standpoint.

You don't. Players that 'enjoy base defense mission' can simply refrain from building base defence structures or deactivate them when they get attacked. You are not being penalized by being forced to fight less enemies since nobody forces you to fight less enemies.

If someone does a logical thing, establishing base defences, they are at fault because reward has to be in proportion to number of enemies while the fact that the number is lessened is due to considerations and partially effective defensive endeavor of the player?

Turn your proposal around, players might not want to be rewarded for enemies they didn't fight and because your idea is simply ridiculous and doesn't make sense in-game. What about them?
Spare me such rhetoric. Arguments, please. I can also claim that players might want to be rewarded because "your claims are completely inane, you have no idea what you're talking about, are bad at considering balance", yadda yadda ad hominem. For baseline respect for you and others, I refuse to stoop to such level of simply subjective insults and I'd like to ask you to attempt the same, 'because your idea is simply ridiculous' is not an argument and if you plan to base your approach on repeating such things, that's neither productive nor intellectually honest and certainly makes it pointless to talk further.

As for you calling me out on 'perceived threats' - maybe actually adress my arguments instead pretending they don't exist? People don't take too kindly to that.
Then the people should be satisfied, because your arguments I addressed in lines separate from the tone and attitude of the poster - you - and the threat/warning.

And my warning was exactly that - a warning.
About what? Sorry, I am very fine with you disagreeing with the idea and by pointing flaws of it, for the sake of refinement, even when in this particular case it's of much lesser value as you've taken up quite antagonistic tone and fuel it with aggravation.

What I am not fine with it is 'you're on thin ice'. Suggesting that just with this line of reasoning, some harm you'd warn against may befall me. No, my idea may be proven unworkable due to some factors or Scorch may be simply uninterested, but that won't harm anyone. So please limit condescending tone, I certainly don't plan to employ the same with you and it frankly makes me frown that you treat the whole exchange personally enough to attempt ridicule and issue warnings rather than debate. I do try to be patient, it's easy to get carried by emotions even (especially?) in internet disagreement but it does get borderline unhealthy when one reached for insults, no matter how deserved they think those are.

And you need to actually find a way to implement this - as far as i can tell this is beyond the scope of XCF. You'd need to add that functionality to OXCE.
Now this is a valid concern, by which - if true - decision can be made whether it's worth the work to implement in case the idea behind it is argued sufficiently.

We can continue this if you want, and will continue to point out why your idea is inherently flawed, inconsistent and not worth the effort to implement.
Gladly, assuming you are able to maintain neutral tone befitting such conversations and limit logical fallacies.

Instead I'd suggest you simply deactivate the feature instead. Problem solved.
Not really if I'd argue the problem is with changed loot due to employing of defences that should be purely beneficial in the feature, not its existence. Your offered solution would be really one only if my problem would be with existence of base defence in general, rather than musings about the balance of it.

So, there you have another answer. Willing to have a go at it, assuming you have some new arguments?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 26, 2019, 02:15:59 pm
So you're still going on about this?

Okay, time for the next summary i guess...

Your initial proposal was
Quote
Also, what about loot? It'd be nice if such damaged UFO also had a chance of providing some corpses or "loose" equipment as remains of dead attackers, so it wouldn't be decreasing loot as a penalty for damaging the UFO.

So apparently you want the loot+corpses...but they shouldn't actually be spawned during the base defence? Which would raise a whole lot of different problems as to how this should be implemented. Yeah, as in, not possible given the current mechanics. In case you haven't noticed it yet, the feature you're complaining about was implemented in OXCE, not in XCF. Which is why I pointed you to the OXCE subforum. I'm pointing you in that direction again, NOW.

Your proposal entails ignoring actual game mechanics (UFOs during base defence aren't recovered), pretending that fighting less aliens penalizes players because they get less loot, which they should - somehow - be entitled to as long as their base defences aren't strong enough to destroy incoming UFOs. Which makes absolutely no sense considering that having a strong enough defences doesn't net you anything. Getting less loot and having to fight less aliens is simply a natural progression of that. You actually admitted as much by mentioning how shot down UFOs don't net as much loot, but only some parts. Treating base defense missions along the same lines, with a full alien contingent being 100% loot, damaging the UFO reduces the numbers and the loot you get. Since you don't recover any UFO parts during base defence missions, fighting less aliens and accordingly recovering less total loot is the expected outcome.

This is also why you mentioning "Mechanics and balance considerations" is kind of amusing, since what you're requesting is the exact opposite of how the mechanics should work, and probably why they were implemented this way (apart from the fact that it's infitiley easier this way than the hare-brained scheme you're proposing).

Apart from all of that what is keeping you from simply disabling that feature if you feel victimized and disenfranchised by it? I'm saying you're acting like you're being forced to use this option because you are. The logical and sane way to go about this would be not to act like you're entitled to loot you didn't fight for, but simply fight for the loot. Problem solved. As far as i can tell you have no idea what implementing these features would entail. I don't know how many times I have to point this out to you, but this is not a matter of a mod author "including" or "being interested" in such a feature. It's impossible to implement given the current game mechanics, as there is no way of parsing randomized 'resources' or the UFO damage state to the base defense battlescape mission, yet alone spawn items based on that. The implemented feature simply reduces the number of spawned enemies.

So, in essence:

Your initial request was for "bodies and loot" - something you're now denying. This is also kind of amusing, since you're blaming me for using that as a strawman argument. Pointing out obvious flaws in implementing that idea, you switched over to some - not further described - kind of 'resources', with no idea how to implement or balance this. The whole reason you're requesting this is because of a perceived penalty for the reduced number of aliens during base defence mission - because you should somehow get the same, or at least additional loot for aliens you didn't fight, disregarding that having strong enough defences don't net you any loot. Instead of simply accepting this as part of a natural progression - which you actually seem to be aware of, given your insight considering shot down UFOs - in your head this somehow amounts to players being 'rewarded less'. If I understand you correctly, you're actually trying to cite game mechanics and balance to defend your idea, when it actually breaks both - not only can't it be implemented using current mechanics, it goes against established lore (as in, the UFO isn't recoverd after a sucessful base defence) and it would also break game balance, as rewards are normally tied to difficulty and risk - which are actually lowered by having less aliens during a base defence.

And instead of actually acknowledging any of that, and taking my advice of simply disabling that option, you end up going down a rabbit hole to somehow make your proposal work in spite of all the inconsistencies and fallacies that it entails.

I warned you about being on thin ice. I'm re-iterating that warning, because your feet are starting to get wet.

Let me point out again that implementing this isn't on the mod author. Let me also point out - again - that you're whole conundrum can easily be solved by simply disabling this feature, something you're apparently too dense to understand:

Quote
Your offered solution would be really one only if my problem would be with existence of base defence in general, rather than musings about the balance of it.

No, my offered solution would actually solve your 'problem' without touching base defences at all. It would do exactely do what you're requesting - restore the loot that you're 'missing out on' - you just have to fight for it. Disabling the feature would make loot independant of base defences, just like it was before.

It's the easiest way, it doesn't require any additional work and it doesn't brake game mechanics or balance and your not going to have to drag yourself out of that lake you're about to fall in.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 27, 2019, 10:35:57 am
Guys! If we have Hyperwave decoder, we no longer need any of radar systems???
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 27, 2019, 12:13:30 pm
Guys! If we have Hyperwave decoder, we no longer need any of radar systems???

I was told you don't need anything else. The decoders work flawlessly.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 27, 2019, 04:21:56 pm
I was told you don't need anything else. The decoders work flawlessly.

Thanks! But it definitely wasn't me, because I'm asking this question the first time ;)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mercy on August 27, 2019, 05:52:02 pm
This equipment lying there "on the floor" caused the game & cursor movement to lag: especially the Battlescape was slow!!

Deleting all unused equipment speeds the game up nicely:

[..]

FOUND THE CULPRIT!!!
Large stacks of many types of equipment slows down the game!   OXCE 5.6.1  and no matter if its XPiratez or this mod, it will always slow down the game.  I tried with many 200+ .. 350+ .. 1500+ stacks of at least 2 or 3 pages worth of various equipment and it slowed down the game considerably => already on the base, while equipping my squad.   

So the problem is now solved.   Clear out large stacks of stuff and only take with you the basics, some important healing, pickaxes, etc..  and don't dump big stacks of several equipment types into your ship while you are equipping ==>  the game will never slow down!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 27, 2019, 06:26:00 pm
@Solarius: maybe you can introduce a 1000-item limit for all craft? for people who don't know when to stop...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 27, 2019, 06:40:40 pm
@Solarius: maybe you can introduce a 1000-item limit for all craft? for people who don't know when to stop...
1000 is still too high, at least when I try to replicate this. Lag/FPS issues start to appear at about 300 items. The interesting thing is that the lag is more pronounced on the equip screen, while it's not an issue on the actual battlescape.

FYI, 1000 items on the equip screen reduce FPS by about 50%, at least on my config.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 27, 2019, 07:36:22 pm
I'm reading you, guys, and asking myself the question "Why people equip their crafts with soooo many items?" :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 27, 2019, 07:55:02 pm
I'm reading you, guys, and asking myself the question "Why people equip their crafts with soooo many items?" :o
People usually don't.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 27, 2019, 08:49:15 pm
1000 is still too high, at least when I try to replicate this. Lag/FPS issues start to appear at about 300 items. The interesting thing is that the lag is more pronounced on the equip screen, while it's not an issue on the actual battlescape.

FYI, 1000 items on the equip screen reduce FPS by about 50%, at least on my config.

Well, I can add an option to disable script item animation... then you can have as many items as you want... but I sorta don't want to break Yankes's features.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 27, 2019, 09:00:39 pm
Well, I can add an option to disable script item animation... then you can have as many items as you want... but I sorta don't want to break Yankes's features.
I'm not even sure what the underlaying issue is here, so i have no idea how changing this behaviour would impact scripts or the game in general. It's just a bit worrying what impact item numbers have on the performance of the engine. Isn't there a way to cut down on item checks on items that are still located in the initial equipment pile?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Yankes on August 27, 2019, 11:35:08 pm
scripts aren't direct culprit, problem was that EVERY item was drawn, even if is on the bottom of the stack or on next page (this cost less but still waste some time).
I already push change that should reduce cost of drawing by 100 times (only things you see are draw once per frame).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 28, 2019, 10:06:04 am
It would be interesting if the sponsor countries somehow competed among themselves for dossiers and other materials obtained by our organization.
For example, if we transferred the extracted artifacts to America, then, on the basis of this, it slightly increased our funding. Or sent some gifts (armor, weapons, ammunition, etc.). At the same time, for example, China, which also claimed these artifacts, but did not receive them, reduced its contribution.
In general, I would like to somehow reflect the more active relations between countries among themselves and countries with our organization.

By the way, I did not know that points are also awarded for research ... Are these the same points that are awarded for successfully performed operations, are calculated at the end of each month and make up the success rating of our project or something else?
About the points for research somewhere said in the game itself, did I miss something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 28, 2019, 11:17:22 am
It would be interesting if the sponsor countries somehow competed among themselves for dossiers and other materials obtained by our organization.
For example, if we transferred the extracted artifacts to America, then, on the basis of this, it slightly increased our funding. Or sent some gifts (armor, weapons, ammunition, etc.). At the same time, for example, China, which also claimed these artifacts, but did not receive them, reduced its contribution.
In general, I would like to somehow reflect the more active relations between countries among themselves and countries with our organization. Not possible given the current mechanics, and beyond the scope of mod development in general.

By the way, I did not know that points are also awarded for research ... Are these the same points that are awarded for successfully performed operations, are calculated at the end of each month and make up the success rating of our project or something else? About the points for research somewhere said in the game itself, did I miss something?
Yes, research adds to your monthly rating. Point values aren't listed in-game, but you can look them up in the rul.

The Ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) is a good starting point to answer all of these question, as it gives you an overview of how game mechanics work (or rather how and where they are defined).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 28, 2019, 11:34:24 am
Not possible given the current mechanics, and beyond the scope of mod development in general.
It's a pity.  :( I would like to somehow diversify the static nature of donor countries and reflect their interest in X-COM files ...

Yes, research adds to your monthly rating. Point values aren't listed in-game, but you can look them up in the rul.
I think it would be more logical to reflect the points obtained from research in the game itself.
Moreover, they must be indicated as a separate paragraph, so that the player understands how science contributes to the financing of the organization.
In general, research in XCF is probably one of the most delicious pieces of the game. I love to explore and always look forward to the results!
And I hardly force myself to use the middle mouse button to avoid spoilers ...

The Ruleset reference is a good starting point to answer all of these question, as it gives you an overview of how game mechanics work (or rather how and where they are defined).
Thank you, I will definitely check it out, it looks interesting. Although there are many tables  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 28, 2019, 12:07:29 pm
It's a pity.  :( I would like to somehow diversify the static nature of donor countries and reflect their interest in X-COM files ...
Country ratings depend on alien points (i.e. sucessful missions in that countries borders), not on x-com's. X-COM's points are general and not country specific.

Have you given any thought about how your proposed mechanic would work in-game? You would need to have seperate research projects for every topic for every country. This would clutter up your research and make it pretty much unusuable. If you make them item dependant, you'd have to have seperate items for every country (or sperate manufacturing projects if you try to do it that way).

You don't deal with separate countries in the game. The lore articles make it pretty clear that you deal with the council. The only interest that the countries have are that you minimize the impact that the invasion and cults have inside their own borders. Dealing with countries instead of the council would probably lead to all sorts of diplomatic BS (lore-wise, anyway). Interactions with countries has already been expanded (via the alien base/resume funding mechanic OXCE implemented). I think we should leave it at that.


I think it would be more logical to reflect the points obtained from research in the game itself.
Moreover, they must be indicated as a separate paragraph, so that the player understands how science contributes to the financing of the organization.
Points are already indicated for special projects (those that have an unuasually large impact) - but these are used more as a stand-in for x-com/council relations as far as I can tell.

To avoid misunderstandings - this mechanic is identical to vanilla x-com, which didn't have a seperate points value indicator either. Having an indicator for research points prior to starting it would also kind of spoil the impact that research has (similar to how research times aren't revealed either).

I'm not quite sure I understand what it is you're requesting - a separate point summary at the end of the month for reasearch? Or an indicator as to how many points a research project has prior to starting it? I have already given you my opinion as to why the latter is a bad idea, and I don't quite see the point of the former - points vary from topic to topic, as do research times. The indicator would be kind of pointless (excuse the pun), since it doesn't help in you planning further research projects or as an indicator for how many points you can expect in the coming months. Missions are repeatable - research isn't.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 28, 2019, 12:40:04 pm
 
Have you given any thought about how your proposed mechanic would work in-game? You would need to have seperate research projects for every topic for every country. This would clutter up your research and make it pretty much unusuable. If you make them item dependant, you'd have to have seperate items for every country (or sperate manufacturing projects if you try to do it that way).
Thank you, this is very interesting!
But, I'm afraid that we do not really understand each other.
I did not say anything about "individual research projects for each country."
I said that there should be competition between countries for the results of X-COM research, which, in turn, should somehow influence their funding. No separate studies are needed; these are ordinary studies in which different countries are interested.


You don't deal with separate countries in the game. The lore articles make it pretty clear that you deal with the council.
This is not so at the same time.
Anything can be written in the articles, but it’s specific countries that finance me, and not the abstract Council, with all due respect to it.
And I just expressed the idea that it would be possible to somehow connect the X-COM studies with the financing of countries, which, of course, are very interested in the results of these studies. And they will compete among themselves on this basis by means of accessible game mechanics - financing of the X-COM project
But if this cannot be done, then it will be so.


P.S. As for research points, I still did not understand what they give (
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 28, 2019, 01:53:30 pm
Thank you, this is very interesting!
But, I'm afraid that we do not really understand each other.
I did not say anything about "individual research projects for each country."
I said that there should be competition between countries for the results of X-COM research, which, in turn, should somehow influence their funding. No separate studies are needed; these are ordinary studies in which different countries are interested.
You said "compete for dossiers and materials" - that means you would need a project, manufacturing item or a separate item for every country and item/project you want this implemented for. That's why a asked if you had given any thought about how this would have to be implemented. I didn't ask you what you dreamed up. You can dream up or wish for anything, but without actually having a concrete idea as to how these would be implemented this is all kind of pointless.

This is not so at the same time.
Anything can be written in the articles, but it’s specific countries that finance me, and not the abstract Council, with all due respect to it.
And I just expressed the idea that it would be possible to somehow connect the X-COM studies with the financing of countries, which, of course, are very interested in the results of these studies. And they will compete among themselves on this basis by means of accessible game mechanics - financing of the X-COM project
But if this cannot be done, then it will be so.
But X-COM deals with and is supervised by the council, and the council was initially setup by the countries funding you.  The council becomes kind of pointless if you also start to deal with separate countries, since this would also have to cut into your relationships with other countries and their funding. At which this all becomes as mess - which is the reason the council was setup in the first place.

Your practically saying "My idea is more important than in-game lore" - which I don't think is a good argument to base requests on. I think at this point the problem is two-fold - it can't be implemented, and according to your reasoning it shouldn't be implemented either.

P.S. As for research points, I still did not understand what they give (
see
Quote
Yes, research adds to your monthly rating.
What is it you're having trouble understanding? I thought this was pretty straight-forward?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 28, 2019, 02:39:13 pm
You said "compete for dossiers and materials" - that means you would need a project, manufacturing item or a separate item for every country and item/project you want this implemented for. That's why a asked if you had given any thought about how this would have to be implemented. I didn't ask you what you dreamed up. You can dream up or wish for anything, but without actually having a concrete idea as to how these would be implemented this is all kind of pointless.
But X-COM deals with and is supervised by the council, and the council was initially setup by the countries funding you.  The council becomes kind of pointless if you also start to deal with separate countries, since this would also have to cut into your relationships with other countries and their funding. At which this all becomes as mess - which is the reason the council was setup in the first place.
I like your reasoning, you just don’t need to ascribe to me what I did not say and think for me.

“You said "compete for dossiers and materials" - that means you would need a project, manufacturing item or a separate item for every country and item/project you want this implemented for.”
Not. That doesn’t mean that I need a project, manufacturing item or a separate item for every country and item/project you want this implemented for.”
That is, we do not need 100 dossiers for each country. These files (or something else) are researched in the usual way.
This means that if, for example, X-COM got a dossier, then both China and America may be interested in these dossiers. And depending on who you give preference to, this country will increase your financing, and the other, on the contrary, will decrease it.
Or something like that.

If logic confuses you, then you can simply compare this with what is happening in our time: how do different countries that officially belong, for example, to the UN, behave.
In any case, they are primarily guided by their own interests. And this, by the way, is a very characteristic feature for our human civilization.

Let's again, thesis.
There is Research - X-Com conducts them
There is Financing - Countries produce it.
All I would like to see is to somehow make the connection between Research and Financing.
It's all.
I do not know if this can be done. And if possible, to what extent, I simply do not know.
I just put forward such an idea.

I have nothing against the Council. Advice is a great idea.
But it does not help to connect Research with Funding. Although ... probably this can be done through the Council. Maybe it would be even more interesting, more intrigue ... Again, given the current reality ...

P.S.
If I understand you correctly, then my monthly rating consists of:
1. Points awarded for completing missions
2. Points awarded for research.

If so, then in the final window of the monthly rating, I would like to see specific numbers:
1. How many points from this rating are for completing missions
2. How many points from this rating are for completed studies

Summary:
I was told that science affects my monthly rating.
I want to understand and see how she does it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 28, 2019, 03:42:51 pm
“You said "compete for dossiers and materials" - that means you would need a project, manufacturing item or a separate item for every country and item/project you want this implemented for.”Not. That doesn’t mean that I need a project, manufacturing item or a separate item for every country and item/project you want this implemented for.”
That is, we do not need 100 dossiers for each country. These files (or something else) are researched in the usual way.This means that if, for example, X-COM got a dossier, then both China and America may be interested in these dossiers. And depending on who you give preference to, this country will increase your financing, and the other, on the contrary, will decrease it.
Or something like that.
That means you'd have to have seperate items (or entries in general) if this was to implemented in order to differentiate between countries, unless you're proposing to implement a whole new mechanic as to how research and point allocation is to be handled. Both of these are not inside the scope of this mod, the latter might not even be in the scope of OXCE. This is why I asked as to how this should be implemented. You stating "Or something like that" pretty much illustrates the problem.

Right now you're just proposing what should happen, but you have no idea as to how this should work or be implemented. This is why I asked you take a look at the ruleset reference, among other things.

If logic confuses you, then you can simply compare this with what is happening in our time: how do different countries that officially belong, for example, to the UN, behave.
In any case, they are primarily guided by their own interests. And this, by the way, is a very characteristic feature for our human civilization[...]
But X-COM isn't a country, nor is it "the UN". In-game lore states that X-COM was funded and is overseen by the council and is a project originating in the UN.

Having countries pass over a) the UN and b) the council would not only threaten the entire project, they would also encourage other countries to do the same, essentially hurting themselves in the process. That aside, X-COM is reporting all discoveries to the council already (as evidenced by the fact that you get points for conducting research). You also get point deductions for revealing researched technologies to third parties (M.A.G.M.A.).

Countries deal with X-COM via the council, and the council finances x-com depending on how those countries rate x-com's performance. I simply don't see how your suggestions would fit in lore wise, or what it would actually add to the game that would justify the work that would go into implementing and balancing this. This would make sense if the council and the UN background wasn't a thing, but it's pretty much the basis for this mod.

P.S.
If I understand you correctly, then my monthly rating consists of:
1. Points awarded for completing missions
2. Points awarded for research.
It's not only mission completion, and the final rating (i.e. score) is the sum of your points minus the points the aliens have accrued. See the wiki for details (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Score).

If so, then in the final window of the monthly rating, I would like to see specific numbers:
1. How many points from this rating are for completing missions
2. How many points from this rating are for completed studies
Again, what would be the point, seeing how research isn't repeatable and research times & points vary from project to project? You can't make any meaningful decisions based on the summary - by the time you get the report, that research is already over and done with. To make any sense of the point allocation you'd need to get a detailed report listing all the different factors contributing to your monthly score, and you'd probably need a separate window for that, since it wouldn't fit inside the summary screen.

None of this is inside the scope of this mod, something that becomes readily apparent if you actually consult the ruleset reference. It's pointless to request these features on a per-mod basis, since you can't implement with the current mechanics. If you want/need these implemented, request them in the OXCE subforum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: SparroHawc on August 29, 2019, 12:30:00 am
Let me give an example of the sort of thing I think is being asked for.

Dossiers often involve specific territories.  Getting the dossier on, for example, Elias Seppa could specifically increase Finland's contributions, as he is a wanted fugitive there, and X-Com is clearly discovering information that Finland desires.  Researching Daddy Paxton, on the other hand, might decrease the USA's funding - because he has connections in high places there - but also increases the funding for a bunch of other countries slightly who aren't on such good terms with the USA and are interested to find out who is a corrupting influence there.

Countries with looming energy crises could give extra funding for research involving power generation - Elerium, UFO power supplies, etc.  Countries with a history of constant conflict could give extra funding for research involving weapons, nations with space programs would be interested in UFO component research, nations with significant science programs could give extra funding for research involving physics, et cetera, et cetera.  No need to have specific research tasks per country; just a stat for any given research task that specifies what countries would like to see it done.

Of course, this likely isn't possible with how the OXCE engine currently works, since there's no mechanic for getting extra points with specific nations - but I agree that it would be an interesting mechanic with possible interesting repercussions if taken to extremes.  Especially if there was some way to get an indication of what research tasks specific countries wanted/didn't want before starting the task.  To offset UFO activity in a country, for example.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 29, 2019, 08:44:18 am
[krautbernd]
Thank you for your opinion, you are a very knowledgeable player and it is interesting to communicate with you!

[SparroHawc]
Thank you, I like your ideas and examples, and rightly so, that is exactly what I wanted to say.
Countries can unite in any structure, for example, the UN, Interpol, X-COM, UNESCO, to finance the fight against global warming, drug trafficking, aliens, pollution of the oceans, etc. but they will always keep their own interests in mind.
In our case, the global, common interest that unites countries is the X-COM project as such.
And, at the same time, each country can have its own private, separate interest related to a particular area of ​​activity of X-COM, for example, dossiers obtained by the organization or alien technology.
This is the “reverse side of the coin”, full of intrigue and ambiguity, which even Ufopedia tells us.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 29, 2019, 12:53:55 pm
Let me give an example of the sort of thing I think is being asked for.

Dossiers often involve specific territories.  Getting the dossier on, for example, Elias Seppa could specifically increase Finland's contributions, as he is a wanted fugitive there, and X-Com is clearly discovering information that Finland desires.  Researching Daddy Paxton, on the other hand, might decrease the USA's funding - because he has connections in high places there - but also increases the funding for a bunch of other countries slightly who aren't on such good terms with the USA and are interested to find out who is a corrupting influence there.

Countries with looming energy crises could give extra funding for research involving power generation - Elerium, UFO power supplies, etc.  Countries with a history of constant conflict could give extra funding for research involving weapons, nations with space programs would be interested in UFO component research, nations with significant science programs could give extra funding for research involving physics, et cetera, et cetera.  No need to have specific research tasks per country; just a stat for any given research task that specifies what countries would like to see it done.

Of course, this likely isn't possible with how the OXCE engine currently works, since there's no mechanic for getting extra points with specific nations - but I agree that it would be an interesting mechanic with possible interesting repercussions if taken to extremes.  Especially if there was some way to get an indication of what research tasks specific countries wanted/didn't want before starting the task.  To offset UFO activity in a country, for example.

Countries can unite in any structure, for example, the UN, Interpol, X-COM, UNESCO, to finance the fight against global warming, drug trafficking, aliens, pollution of the oceans, etc. but they will always keep their own interests in mind.
In our case, the global, common interest that unites countries is the X-COM project as such.
And, at the same time, each country can have its own private, separate interest related to a particular area of ​​activity of X-COM, for example, dossiers obtained by the organization or alien technology.
This is the “reverse side of the coin”, full of intrigue and ambiguity, which even Ufopedia tells us.

To repeat myself here - you are wishing or dreaming about stuff you personally would find interesting, but you're haing trouble realizing/admitting the problems that this would cause.

For one thing, dossiers are random, and you're asking for these to have direct negative consequences that the player has no way of knowing of before completing that research.  This means you would have to create seperate projects for every dossier or research project you'd want to fall under that mechanic. This would also amount to x-com having knowledge of the repercussions before they complete/hand over the dossiers. That means the dossiers would have to be rewritten, since they are - apparently - not directly submitted to interpol anymore. Which also doesn't make much sense, because...:

You are also straight out ignoring that x-com directly reports to the council, and by extension the UN - pretty much every country on earth, which includes research reports, since you're already getting points (and by extension funding) for said research. You are asking to get paid for research twice. Why should any of the countries reward x-com for something they already have access to to via the council? Why should they need to resort to back-door deals - which could easily fall through, hurt their standing with the project and other countries - when they can simply do all this through the council itself?

Also, as far as the dossiers are concerned - almost all of these already mention that interpol has been notified. Why in the world should any country punish x-com for reporting information to an international organization that country is part of and supports? The dossier exclusively concern individuals that have either gone rogue, are outright criminal, connected to cults/aliens and/or threaten international stability. It's more than likely that whichever country might be interested in said individual issued the interpol warrant in the first place.

As far as I can tell you are both under the impression that all of this would have little to no impact on what is already in the game, and would be simple to implement if the mechanics would allow it. That is not the case. A lot of articles would have to be rewritten, research (and probably manufacturing projects as well) would have to be rebalanced, as would funding and points awarded for items, mission completion etc.

You are essentially asking for a complete overhaul of the scoring system. Do you think that this is feasible or worth the effort?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on August 29, 2019, 01:43:35 pm
have direct negative consequences that the player has no way of knowing of before completing that research.
the -500 for sharing the ammo tech hit me by surprise pretty hard...
(definately not gonna argue about that scoring stuff)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 29, 2019, 06:49:30 pm
Tbf the scoring system is pretty shit. Flat score, which gets converted to a random % raise, which has the illusion of being tied to separate countries? No thank you. Every other XCOM-like does scoring differently from the original (see Xenonauts where UFO flyovers directly reduce income per second), because it's shit. But implementing a new system while keeping the former in OpenXCOM (and compatibility with the various rules that interact with it) sounds like a very difficult task, even for Meridian (which btw he would certainly never do).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 29, 2019, 07:34:03 pm
Tbf the scoring system is pretty shit. Flat score, which gets converted to a random % raise, which has the illusion of being tied to separate countries? No thank you. Every other XCOM-like does scoring differently from the original (see Xenonauts where UFO flyovers directly reduce income per second), because it's shit. But implementing a new system while keeping the former in OpenXCOM (and compatibility with the various rules that interact with it) sounds like a very difficult task, even for Meridian (which btw he would certainly never do).
Wiki says that countries actually take alien scores into account for adjusting the funding though:
Quote
After the council has made its group decision, the majority of countries will follow the council's lead and adjust their funding. A few countries may consider their situation exceptional, due to very good or bad localised performance by X-COM (the presence of an alien base on their territory, a terror mission that succeeded, etc.).
So I'm not quite sold on the 'illusion of being tied to seperate countries"-part. Not saying it's a perfect system by any account, but I don't think changing it would be worth the effort necessary to do so. It works for the most part, but the impact of certian actions should probably be harsher, monetary wise.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on August 30, 2019, 01:45:26 am
I know they do but they can't be reduced to leaving the council by relations AFAIK, so it's not as big of a deal. In fairness I should have mentioned that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 30, 2019, 04:34:22 pm
I know they do but they can't be reduced to leaving the council by relations AFAIK, so it's not as big of a deal. In fairness I should have mentioned that.
True, but reducing funding to 0 would practically amount to them leaving - though I have never encountered that situation in the game, and I'm not sure it is even possible, given the randomized nature of alien missions. Countries leaving due to negative score would be an interesting mechanic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 31, 2019, 12:37:49 am
I'm having troube finding the Advent clinic logs, I've done about 5-10 missons but found none, how do I get them?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on August 31, 2019, 12:41:37 am
Just noticed on a concealed mission (slander) Dart Pistols were allowed, but not their ammo (Type A)...
Kinda useless.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 31, 2019, 01:50:29 am
Just noticed on a concealed mission (slander) Dart Pistols were allowed, but not their ammo (Type A)...
Kinda useless.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_STAKEOUT_GEAR
    allowedItemCategories:
      - STR_CONCEALABLE

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DART_PISTOL
    categories: [STR_XCOM_TECH, STR_PISTOLS, STR_INCAPACITATE, STR_BEACH, STR_UNDERWATER, STR_CONCEALABLE]

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DART_PISTOL_CLIP_A
    categories: [STR_XCOM_TECH, STR_PISTOLS, STR_INCAPACITATE, STR_CLIPS, STR_BEACH, STR_UNDERWATER, STR_CONCEALABLE]



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on August 31, 2019, 02:35:05 am
ok that is very weird then.
i had 4 dart pistols and 12 clips loaded (and double checked once the van got back to be absolutely sure its not my mistake), but there was no clips on equip screen and the dart pistols were empty.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 31, 2019, 08:34:29 am
I'm having troube finding the Advent clinic logs, I've done about 5-10 missons but found none, how do I get them?

I've found them after many and many clinic missions (don't know how much exactly)... It seems, scripts of ver. 0.9.9e work incorrectly. I've interrogated all types of hybrids, researched all techs, which depend from them, done all types of missions, but still hybrids' base haven't appeared. Same shit with Syndicate's missions: now it is July of 2000, and there were NO Syndicate's missions since early 1999.   
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 31, 2019, 08:42:41 am
Guys, anybody knows how the option "save scumming" works? I just want to know is this option re-roll chances of spawn of any mission after each loading or not?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on August 31, 2019, 10:16:09 am
Guys, anybody knows how the option "save scumming" works? I just want to know is this option re-roll chances of spawn of any mission after each loading or not?

It changes the RNG results.

If you reload before the spawn chances are calculated it will affect it; if you reload after it was calculated it won't affect it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 31, 2019, 11:51:03 am
It changes the RNG results.

If you reload before the spawn chances are calculated it will affect it; if you reload after it was calculated it won't affect it.

Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 31, 2019, 02:41:39 pm
I've found them after many and many clinic missions (don't know how much exactly)... It seems, scripts of ver. 0.9.9e work incorrectly. I've interrogated all types of hybrids, researched all techs, which depend from them, done all types of missions, but still hybrids' base haven't appeared. Same shit with Syndicate's missions: now it is July of 2000, and there were NO Syndicate's missions since early 1999.
Same with me, I've interrogated all of the Advent and Hybrid interrogation topics and yet for some reason I cannot find the logs which should be there, the most valuable thing to come out of the mission are the laser weapons that they use, for now I've reached a block on the Hybrid arc and It's fustrating, like how do I get the access key for the Advent embassies? There are no clear instructions on how to aquire these cards? I assume the logs are vital but alas I cannot find any for the life of me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 31, 2019, 03:02:11 pm
Same with me, I've interrogated all of the Advent and Hybrid interrogation topics and yet for some reason I cannot find the logs which should be there, the most valuable thing to come out of the mission are the laser weapons that they use, for now I've reached a block on the Hybrid arc and It's fustrating, like how do I get the access key for the Advent embassies? There are no clear instructions on how to aquire these cards? I assume the logs are vital but alas I cannot find any for the life of me.
There are two types of clinic missions: "Suspicious Clinic" and "Sinister Clinic". The logs only spawn on the "Suspicious Clinic" map. I don't know if this is an oversight - the logs should probably be recoverable from both clinic types.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 31, 2019, 03:14:09 pm
There are two types of clinic missions: "Suspicious Clinic" and "Sinister Clinic". The logs only spawn on the "Suspicious Clinic" map. I don't know if this is an oversight - the logs should probably be recoverable from both clinic types.
I've done both types but not found any whatsoever. Yesterday I did two suspicious clinics and got no logs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Twinbornsoftemu on August 31, 2019, 04:26:53 pm
I cant seem to find my Heavy weapon platforms in the craft equip screen, which is how you put them on IIRC. I tried with with a completely empty craft and with both a skyranger and a skyraider which lets you use atleast one so thats not the issue. So do i need anything else like reserach or am i doing it wrong?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on August 31, 2019, 05:10:19 pm
I've done both types but not found any whatsoever. Yesterday I did two suspicious clinics and got no logs.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ADVENT_CLINIC
    size: STR_SMALL
    sprite: 4
    damageMax: 500
    speedMax: 500
    accel: 10
    power: 40
    range: 20
    score: 700
    reload: 32
    breakOffTime: 500
    battlescapeTerrainData:
      name: ADVENT_CLINIC
      mapDataSets:
        - BLANKS
        - ADVENT_GENERAL
        - ADVENT_FNITURE
        - ADVENT_SUPPLY
        - ADVENT_MEDICINE
        - ADVENT_SPECIAL
        - URBITS
      mapBlocks:
        - name: ADVENT_CLINIC01
          width: 20
          length: 20
          items:
            STR_ADVENT_CLINIC_LOGS:
              - [12, 13, 1]

Well, I don't know what to tell you - they should be spawning. Where you or the enemies using explosives? Was any terrain destroyed/blown up? Because that's the only thing i can think of. The logs spaw just fine for me  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 31, 2019, 07:24:50 pm
Well, I don't know what to tell you - they should be spawning. Where you or the enemies using explosives? Was any terrain destroyed/blown up? Because that's the only thing i can think of. The logs spaw just fine for me  :P
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how, I did these with no damage to the building exept one explosion in the backrooms by panicking hybrids but even so I should have gotten the logs, is it possible to give myself one?
Also I can't get blackops tritanium rifle ammo even though I have all the other types, is this because I updated the game? I also have some of it from killing some hybrid but I can't research it, what do I do?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on August 31, 2019, 07:41:45 pm
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how, I did these with no damage to the building exept one explosion in the backrooms by panicking hybrids but even so I should have gotten the logs, is it possible to give myself one?

If you have hovers already (basic tanks could be easily destroyed), you can crush the wall of clinic and kill all habitants there to exclude factor of explosion.

Also I can't get blackops tritanium rifle ammo even though I have all the other types, is this because I updated the game? I also have some of it from killing some hybrid but I can't research it, what do I do?


Have you obtained Syndicate's diskette?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 31, 2019, 11:58:18 pm
Have you obtained Syndicate's diskette?
No, getting blackops alloy ammo isn't really important anyways since I got laser weapons just curious.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on September 01, 2019, 06:23:50 am
Just noticed on a concealed mission (slander) Dart Pistols were allowed, but not their ammo (Type A)...
Kinda useless.
figured it out finally.
had dart pistols but dart rifle ammo...
i´m an idiot  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 01, 2019, 09:20:34 am
No, getting blackops alloy ammo isn't really important anyways since I got laser weapons just curious.

Yes, indeed. That's the main problem of BlackOps ammo - it is WORTHLESS, because of too late revealing of it. I don't understand what necessity driven Sol to make this ammo so difficult to use. In most of situations players reach lasers much earlier than BO tritanium ammo. I could understand this if BO TA has some powerful properties as higher armor piercing or additional damage to HP... The way of revealing BO TA should be alike M.A.G.M.A's one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 01, 2019, 07:26:18 pm
Yeah I agree, but the only way I got lasers kinda early was with Advent using laser weapons and me looting it off them but that's fine IMO, I would've gottern them anyway when I got the improved lab I had all the prerequisites for producing my own.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on September 01, 2019, 09:11:18 pm
I was also kind of unhappy with overall progression and especially the limited (or rather exclusive) manufacturing vs. buying options for tritanium ammo - why can x-com manufacture their own ammuniton for some weapons, but not others? Why can't we outsource things to BlackOps as well?

So I just added options for that to my XCF submod. This also ties in with my upgraded/alloy missiles, which can be produced as well as outsourced later on.

I can partially understand Solarius in doing things this way, apart from the fact that having manufacturing+buying options for the same items is kind of redundant. I mostly did this for fluff/immersion reason and because buying items is simply more convenient than having to manufacture+stockpile them.

If something like this bothers you too much - mod it. That's the great thing about OXC.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 01, 2019, 09:58:42 pm
Yeah I can see what you mean, I guess it has someting to do with the company that makes the ammo for the gun to want to have this tech as well, like with MAGMA I doubt they would be very happy with the player making ammo for their guns and not giving them the blueprints, especially if the ammo is made just for that gun by that one company.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on September 01, 2019, 10:13:14 pm
Yeah I can see what you mean, I guess it has someting to do with the company that makes the ammo for the gun to want to have this tech as well, like with MAGMA I doubt they would be very happy with the player making ammo for their guns and not giving them the blueprints, especially if the ammo is made just for that gun by that one company.
As far as I can tell that has never been the case for any gun/casing irl though, and would probably not be admissable (or practical) for safety reasons, among other things.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 02, 2019, 07:52:11 am
So I just added options for that to my XCF submod. This also ties in with my upgraded/alloy missiles, which can be produced as well as outsourced later on.
If something like this bothers you too much - mod it. That's the great thing about OXC.

Sounds great! Can you share it with me, please?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on September 02, 2019, 04:48:48 pm
Sounds great! Can you share it with me, please?
Keep in mind that the changes I made aren't necessarily balanced and might not be bug-free (I had to modify some stuff for the last patch, and there might be some pitfalls I've missed). The mod contains more changes than I've listed here (small changes to enemy armor, craft weapon, base facilities, research progression etc.). If you're exclusively interested in the tritanium ammo you're probably better off creating your own mod and just copy the necessary entires from the manufacture/items/research.rul over.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 02, 2019, 05:11:33 pm
Another thing I've found wierd is the UAC corporation in general, compared to MAGMA and Blackops Industries that is little interaction with UAC apart from finding out it exists. Like MAGMA gives you missions to do and tech trades and Blackops has the stuff with the Syndicate, but UAC has none of this. And you can't even get things like the UAC rifle without finding it first which is a little wierd.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 02, 2019, 05:52:10 pm
Keep in mind that the changes I made aren't necessarily balanced and might not be bug-free (I had to modify some stuff for the last patch, and there might be some pitfalls I've missed). The mod contains more changes than I've listed here (small changes to enemy armor, craft weapon, base facilities, research progression etc.). If you're exclusively interested in the tritanium ammo you're probably better off creating your own mod and just copy the necessary entires from the manufacture/items/research.rul over.

A hundred of thanks to you!
Unfortunately, I don't know how to mod such things, so I'll try yours. Do I need to start a new game with your mod or I can continue my current game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on September 02, 2019, 07:36:57 pm
A hundred of thanks to you!
Unfortunately, I don't know how to mod such things, so I'll try yours. Do I need to start a new game with your mod or I can continue my current game?
for mods you can usually continue your current game, but keep in mind that changes to the research tree don't apply retroactively (i.e. research doesn't get re-locked), so you might come across some redundant research entries. Also I'd advise you to take a look at the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) and treat this as a learning experience. Modding OXC isn't overly complicated and most of the entries are well documented. Just take a look at the rul-files and try it. It's not like you can really 'break' anything as long as you use a fresh save.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 03, 2019, 06:58:27 am
for mods you can usually continue your current game, but keep in mind that changes to the research tree don't apply retroactively (i.e. research doesn't get re-locked), so you might come across some redundant research entries. Also I'd advise you to take a look at the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) and treat this as a learning experience. Modding OXC isn't overly complicated and most of the entries are well documented. Just take a look at the rul-files and try it. It's not like you can really 'break' anything as long as you use a fresh save.

Thank you! I'll finish my current campaign (the final is not so far) and will use your mods. If Sol will not change the situation, of course  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 03, 2019, 11:12:25 am
Hi guys! Sorry for the delay, I am on holidays and spend more time on the beach than at the PC. (No Osiron found yet.)

So, the space missions are coming and UAC weapons will be in great demand? ;)

Yes! Though this particular one is endgame, so I expect UAC will be outdated.

Does this have an Ufopaedia article? This mechanic should have one, as well as the hunter-killer ufos if they don't already.

I thought the player didn't need this info as there is no reason to suspect otherwise. But then again, this is a mod to a game which didn't have this mechanics, so there is a reason to suspect otherwise.
I'll add it.

Moon missions, yay! To be fair, I cheat and I snoop the Github directory from time to time.

That's no cheating, that's staying on the bleeding edge of development. :)

(...) arc completed, or will it be a few random missions since it's kind of a joke arc? What about the ghost-busters one?

These guys are intended to be a serious arc. These are its humble beginnings.
Ghostbusters will hopefully happen too, but they're shelved at the moment. It's a big thing.

Guys! If we have Hyperwave decoder, we no longer need any of radar systems???

That's right.

@Solarius: maybe you can introduce a 1000-item limit for all craft? for people who don't know when to stop...

Yes, you're right. I did just that.

It would be interesting if the sponsor countries somehow competed among themselves for dossiers and other materials obtained by our organization.
For example, if we transferred the extracted artifacts to America, then, on the basis of this, it slightly increased our funding. Or sent some gifts (armor, weapons, ammunition, etc.). At the same time, for example, China, which also claimed these artifacts, but did not receive them, reduced its contribution.
In general, I would like to somehow reflect the more active relations between countries among themselves and countries with our organization.

Interesting musings, but completely out of scope of this engine. Wait on OpenApoc, maybe the devs will be crazy enough to listen. ;)
(This also applies to the following posts on this topic, with examples from SparrowHawc etc.)

By the way, I did not know that points are also awarded for research ... Are these the same points that are awarded for successfully performed operations, are calculated at the end of each month and make up the success rating of our project or something else?
About the points for research somewhere said in the game itself, did I miss something?

AFAIK there are two kinds of points: region-specific (which you see on graphs) and general. Research gives the latter.

Krautbernd's explanation is correct, though I can't really wrap my head around his system of per-country researches. XD (As you'd still need new code to assign points to a specific region.)

I've found them after many and many clinic missions (don't know how much exactly)... It seems, scripts of ver. 0.9.9e work incorrectly. I've interrogated all types of hybrids, researched all techs, which depend from them, done all types of missions, but still hybrids' base haven't appeared. Same shit with Syndicate's missions: now it is July of 2000, and there were NO Syndicate's missions since early 1999.

I'll ask Finnik to double check, I am not that familiar with the ADVENT stuff, as it's all his work - I only reviewed it.
But regarding the Syndicate: I've been too stingy with access to them. Will be improved in the future. This will also help with their weapons' availability.

Another thing I've found wierd is the UAC corporation in general, compared to MAGMA and Blackops Industries that is little interaction with UAC apart from finding out it exists. Like MAGMA gives you missions to do and tech trades and Blackops has the stuff with the Syndicate, but UAC has none of this. And you can't even get things like the UAC rifle without finding it first which is a little wierd.

I simply didn't have the time to develop them yet. But I have plans!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 03, 2019, 03:35:06 pm
Interesting musings, but completely out of scope of this engine. Wait on OpenApoc, maybe the devs will be crazy enough to listen. ;)
Thank!
Oh, I’m afraid that I’ll grow old and die before I can play OpenApoc ...  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 05, 2019, 11:03:45 am
Thank!
Oh, I’m afraid that I’ll grow old and die before I can play OpenApoc ...  ;)

I want to play it too. We can only pray. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: justaround on September 05, 2019, 01:49:54 pm
So you're still going on about this?
Why, yes. I don't have much time to regularly show up on the forum so there's a few days of pause between my replies for for the closest foreseeable future, but you yourself invited me to continue earlier, in one of your posts, earlier or the last, edited one. For the sake of being respectful I've decided to assume it was a genuine invitation, not an off-hand stab. Though I do sadly now suspect otherwise.

In case you haven't noticed it yet, the feature you're complaining about was implemented in OXCE, not in XCF. Which is why I pointed you to the OXCE subforum. I'm pointing you in that direction again, NOW.
Yes, and I started the whole thing expressing concerns in regards to application of the feature in XCF. Also, if it was implemented, it should be fine, shouldn't it be? But I am pretty sure you were claiming that there are mechanical issues earlier and just now?

Your proposal entails ignoring actual game mechanics (UFOs during base defence aren't recovered), pretending that fighting less aliens penalizes players because they get less loot, which they should - somehow - be entitled to as long as their base defences aren't strong enough to destroy incoming UFOs. Which makes absolutely no sense considering that having a strong enough defences doesn't net you anything.
A thing worthy of consideration in its own regard, though difference as stated I based on damaged but structurally still in relatively-one-piece UFO reasonably would yield some things as compared to what presumably seems to be completely disintegrated one.

Getting less loot and having to fight less aliens is simply a natural progression of that. You actually admitted as much by mentioning how shot down UFOs don't net as much loot, but only some parts.
Yes, and now I consider different ways such mechanics could be approached. Which may or may not be to liking of some but certainly shouldn't prompt emotional response.

Treating base defense missions along the same lines, with a full alien contingent being 100% loot, damaging the UFO reduces the numbers and the loot you get. Since you don't recover any UFO parts during base defence missions, fighting less aliens and accordingly recovering less total loot is the expected outcome.
Yes, it is expected but that doesn't make it better or reasonable on its own when the idea as presented earlier when you asked me to elaborate, touches upon what/how much loot one could should be getting in general from base defence as compared to current system.

This is also why you mentioning "Mechanics and balance considerations" is kind of amusing, since what you're requesting is the exact opposite of how the mechanics should work, and probably why they were implemented this way (apart from the fact that it's infitiley easier this way than the hare-brained scheme you're proposing).
Hardly a logical argument, "they were implemented this way because it's opposite of another way". Whether it's easier I am really not sure. It's certainly a simpler mechanics but that doesn't make it better - may be a taste of how much complexity one enjoys.

Apart from all of that what is keeping you from simply disabling that feature if you feel victimized and disenfranchised by it?
The fact that such feature of base defence doesn't bother me and I don't want it disabled. I'd like to ponder and discuss if different solutions regarding the loot could be used, though.
 
I'm saying you're acting like you're being forced to use this option because you are.
And I say that I am neither acting nor claiming I am forced. The fact I may appear somehow to you is one thing, but when I already stated earlier where I come from on this and you keep making assumptions about my intentions, it won't lead anywhere.

The logical and sane way to go about this would be not to act like you're entitled to loot you didn't fight for, but simply fight for the loot. Problem solved.
No, that's not how the logic of it works. If the idea is to also be able to acquire some loot from damage wrought upon aliens by base defences, "the problem" (not really that as much as openly pondering alternative, IMHO better way of handling it, despite your incessant approach toward it as if it'd be some attack) is lack of loot from destruction cause by said defences. Not using defences would be solution if my problem would be "there's not enough loot", but that's not the problem, the problem is that turrets completely obliterate potential loot when used, thus leading to loss for what should provide only net benefit (construction of functional defences). It's related to balance from the standpoint of using said defences. That's a difference.

As far as i can tell you have no idea what implementing these features would entail.
But you can't really tell now, can you, not in any way that'd be based on anything tangible. You just make assumptions based on your opinion on the idea and/or me, don't you?

I don't know how many times I have to point this out to you, but this is not a matter of a mod author "including" or "being interested" in such a feature. It's impossible to implement given the current game mechanics, as there is no way of parsing randomized 'resources' or the UFO damage state to the base defense battlescape mission, yet alone spawn items based on that. The implemented feature simply reduces the number of spawned enemies.
And I already addressed that, as you may also understand that I wasn't giving Solarius any hard time about it. It's you who wanted to continue this and addressed the idea on its own, as hypothetical as I already made it to be. Assuming you don't address it just to be a malcontent (or any other more vulgar word for a type of person who goes out of their way to berate people or things) or that you're not confused, it follows logically that you address me because you still want to discuss it on its own merit for some reason.

I remind you, in the very beginning of this exchange I literally simply explained what my was thinking behind it, then thanked for the input and moved on, not planning to continue with this thought/idea further:

Anyway, thanks for the answers, folks, and the suggestion.

 It's you who started turning it into personal attack and increasingly hostile, emotional opposition, like if you'd have something to prove. I am not responsible for whatever issues you may be suffering that have you act this way and if you plan to take things personally and then demand further explanations of the idea on my part, don't then also act annoyed that you get some. I am not an aggressor here nor did I wish to escalate.

Your initial request was for "bodies and loot" - something you're now denying.
A thing that could be done as simplification, but fluff wise wouldn't have to be, not as bodies on the battlefield, but stuff you can recover later, being stores 'off map'. I also, given that I actually didn't come to argue as you seem to assume, am willing to listen to feedback to refine it. Why, would you rather have me go with personal threats/warnings about how on thin ice you are and how you'll be in trouble/wet you'll end up if you won't start agreeing with me? I'll pass on that.

This is also kind of amusing, since you're blaming me for using that as a strawman argument.
No, not exactly that. The strawman is in the claim that I'd imagine aliens dragging the corpses out into the battefield when I did not suggest that. I also even explained to you what a strawman argument is on an example and you still seem to be not understanding what the logical fallacy is.

Pointing out obvious flaws in implementing that idea, you switched over to some - not further described - kind of 'resources', with no idea how to implement or balance this.
Why, do tell what items and bodies would be lost in hypothetical situation and, just for you, I can easily offer some examples with explanation what guides my decision to offer such and such loot. Also, bodies and items are resources, too.

The whole reason you're requesting this is because of a perceived penalty for the reduced number of aliens during base defence mission - because you should somehow get the same, or at least additional loot for aliens you didn't fight, disregarding that having strong enough defences don't net you any loot. Instead of simply accepting this as part of a natural progression - which you actually seem to be aware of, given your insight considering shot down UFOs - in your head this somehow amounts to players being 'rewarded less'.
With the exception of it being hardly any natural, it's extension of certain mechanics arbitrarily implemented on part of the developer. One which I very much understand you prefer, which is fine, but that's another matter altogether.

If I understand you correctly, you're actually trying to cite game mechanics and balance to defend your idea, when it actually breaks both - not only can't it be implemented using current mechanics,
Yes, but you ask me to explain how it would work, so as - as you also claim - the current mechanics doesn't support the idea, I explain - for your convenience, not mine - how and what would need adjustment so it could work.

it goes against established lore (as in, the UFO isn't recoverd after a sucessful base defence)
That's not lore, at all, neither established nor hinted at. That's purely balance/mechanical consideration, with no official fluff behind it. Fluff could be likely added but that'd be one added to explain the mechanics, not mechanics stemming from previously established lore.

and it would also break game balance, as rewards are normally tied to difficulty and risk - which are actually lowered by having less aliens during a base defence.
With the exception of how the player is encouraged normally to research and use progressively better equipment like rifles and armors to overome difficulty of the enconuters and decrease that risk while getting the loot. I apply it to base defences by logical extension.

And instead of actually acknowledging any of that, and taking my advice of simply disabling that option, you end up going down a rabbit hole to somehow make your proposal work in spite of all the inconsistencies and fallacies that it entails.
Name fallacies. Most of your... complaints now more than even arguments anymore are either stemming from how you'd like/expect the game to work, or personal preferences. As for rabbit hole, it's not me who seems be keen on biting into it and has a bone to pick, I present my thoughts and refine them in response to your continuous intent to contest them. As I'd like to assume here you don't just write this to have the last word.

I warned you about being on thin ice. I'm re-iterating that warning, because your feet are starting to get wet.
I tried to politely and diplomatically approach such unconstructive personal remarks in my earlier posts, including this very thing when you last tried it but perhaps I'll try something more direct: spare me such bullshit, your warnings are useless for this discussion and you're of no importance or position to issue me warnings on grounds of veracity of an argument. Offer arguments with some detachment from personal trips or be aware that no stock will be put into what you write.

I don't know you personally and I don't want to pass any judgements on you as a human being. Maybe I simply pushed your buttons unknowingly and you're otherwise a great person but you seem to be keen on making this whole exchange progressively more personal, with practically every post of yours about this thing - again, which we discuss due to your continued interest and raised issues - containing some attempt at ridicule or other personal remark. Why, do you want to simply cause some issues?

Let me point out again that implementing this isn't on the mod author.
Let me point out that I already acknowledged and addressed that.

Let me also point out - again - that you're whole conundrum can easily be solved by simply disabling this feature, something you're apparently too dense to understand:
No, it wouldn't, because the problem you think it'd solve is subtly different from the one I posed. But sure, blame your inability or unwilligness to acknowledge that subtlety on me being supposedly dense, that's a great way to prop up your claim.

No, my offered solution would actually solve your 'problem' without touching base defences at all. It would do exactely do what you're requesting - restore the loot that you're 'missing out on' - you just have to fight for it.
Then it wouldn't at all do what I spoke about. Refer to the, once again, my explanation where I actually see the problem. Or better yet, let me try to simplify it further: the problem isn't that I get this or that much loot, the problem is because of what the loot pool is decreased.

It's the easiest way, it doesn't require any additional work and it doesn't brake game mechanics or balance and your not going to have to drag yourself out of that lake you're about to fall in.

Eh, more of that, eh? Don't worry, I won't have to drag myself out of the lake because I won't fall in, I'll spring back by bouncing off you as you fall into it. Was that sentence silly? Yes it was, as silly as pointless as your continued remarks and personal warnings/threats how I am about to be like this or that. If you simply cannot do without that and just want to argue because you've got personally commited to it rather than actually wanting to discuss things, do tell, there's no point in it if all it does is getting you annoyed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on September 05, 2019, 10:52:06 pm
I want to play it too. We can only pray. ;)

We can only hope.

That, or the future XCOM3 by Firaxis has similar themes, but it will probably TFTD-lite .

That reminds me: Is the Commendation minor mod going to be integrated with the final 1.0 release? Just to know. IIRC you wanted to make these medals more significant and make them give minor bonuses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on September 06, 2019, 01:12:48 pm
[snip]
On to summary #3 - I'm going to adress these as they come up, because quoting each individual paragraph isn't doing anyone any favors. Unfortunately  this also means that some points are going to crop up multiple times. I'm also having trouble understanding some of your sentences since your english isn't...let's call it 'well formed'. Not that I'm one to talk, being a non-native speaker, but ffs at least I'm trying to respect basic grammar rules.

You suspect that I was being disingenuous and decide to answer a perceived stab (fyi it was rhetorical question) with a passive-agressiv remark. I'm not sure what to make of that, or what it has to do with the issue at hand.

You're apparently under the impression that a totally optional feature - which reduces the number of enemies on base defense missions - is unbalanced but only as far as XCF is concerned, disregarding that base defense missions aren't inherently different for any mod since they follow vanilla mechanics, given how loot is only dependand on the enemies spawned during such missions. If you're concerned with general balancing of the mechanic go request a change of this feature in the OXCE subforum, not here. If XCF is 'unbalanced' because you're feeling disenfranchised by the 'missing' loot this would hold true for any other mod that uses the mechanic, including vanilla if the mechanic is enabled. I'm not sure what to make of your statement/complaint about the mechanic 'being fine' or me saying anything about 'mechanical issue' in regards to the feature as implemented. I never said that there were any issue with the current implementation, only with your 'bound to fail'-scheme how it should be changed.

You are not actually adressing any of the game balance issue I've brought up, and you're not adressing the question of what kind of loot or resources should actually be recovered after a succesful base defense. You're still trying to make it out that the current implementation of the feature takes loot away, when you're actual argument is apparently that the player should be able to recover additional loot depending on how much damage the player deals to an invading UFO. At least that's the only interpretation that make any sense for what you're proposing, but as I've already mentioned some of your sentences aren't...easy...to understand.

You have essentially gone from "I want to be able to recover some of the loot/bodies I didn't fight for" to "I feel the current state is so unbalanced that base defence loot in general needs to be rebalanced". I told you were going down a rabbit hole trying to rationalize your proposal. You don't disappoint.

As for you calling into question the logic of 'my argument' you might want to keep in mind that I'm not the one who implemented the mechanic, and I'm not the one who requested it either. Yet I can point to existing game mechanics and balancing to justify it's current implementation. I don't have to construct an increasingly complex and incoherent pile of ideas and excuses as to why the mechanic is so flawed that it needs to be changed, and why simply disabling it isn't an option either. If it's so flawed that it needs to be changed go request that change in the OXCE subforum, not here. This has nothing to do with XCF, but with a core gameplay mechanic. Again, you've apparently no idea what implementing your idea would entail, and why simply reducing the number of spawned enemies is inherently different from implementing UFO-dependant loot.

You're also misconstruing base defences as only having net benefits or that are 'supposed' to only have net benefits - neither statement is true. For one, base defences take up building space, which might be better used for other facilities, and building enough base defences might seriously impact other base expansions and functions. Your argument only makes sense if you outright ignore the actual point (preventing UFOs from landing) base defence buildings have in vanilla (i.e. without enabling the feature you're complaining about) - which didn't net you any loot. By your logic the player only benefits from base defences as long as they don't build enough defences to destroy the invading UFO. Which ties back to the above paragraph of you going from "I want loot I didn't fight for" to "Base defence in general is unbalanced and unfair and needs to be refactored". No, it simply doesn't, and complaing about any of that in this forum isn't going to accomplish anything.

If you're actually serious about this - instead of simply wanting to rant and/or troll - post this in the OXCE subforum. At this point you're complaining about core gameplay mechanics and request an option to modify them. This is apparent by you stating that disabling the feature doesn't solve your problem, since disabling it reverts things to vanilla mechanics. None of this is inside the scope of XCF or a gameplay mod.

While I haven't contributed to OXC's or OXCE's code, I have a general understanding of how mechanics are implemented and how to change basic gameplay features should I ever feel the need to do so. I can tell you outright that simply reducing the number of spawned enemies is vastly simpler than what you are requesting. I'm not asking you take my word for it - go post your request in the OXCE subforum and see what the actual maintainers have to say about it. Provided you actually have a grasp on what it is you're requesting. You're assertion that 'resources' "could be stored off-map" - among other things - tells me that you don't.

The basic problem with your request is two-fold:

Issue number one is that not only does it break balance and pre-existing mechanics, you're now also at a point where you are calling for a refactoring or core gameplay mechanics to justify your proposed changes. Issue number two is that it's not feasible to implement given the complexity and actual benefit of doing so.

What you don't seem to understand - or want to admit - is that the current implementation is balanced according to vanilla mechanics and correctly reflects the current state of your base defences. Your whole argument is based on the assumption that the player should be rewarded for not fighting invaders. Instead of actually adressing most of the points I'm bringing up you're trying to now make this about balancing base defence mission in general - something quite different from what you were originally complaining about:

Quote
Yes, but you fight less aliens not as an arbitrarily chosen option with its own price to pay, but due to partially succesful defensive measures. With less loot, the game basically punishes the player for having some air defenses that damaged the UFO over having none.

Which is factually wrong, since the player always has the option to disable lessAliensDuringBaseDefense and revert to vanilla behaviour and (as I've pointed out multiple times by now) ignores how base defences actually work (i.e. no loot when you have enough base defences). This whole exchange is an extension of that original, flawed claim of yours, and your unwillingness to actually adress or acknowledge it.

As for me coming up with the 'aliens drag their comrades out of the UFO' idea and that being a straw man argument because you didn't suggest it, let me remind you what a straw man argument is: an exaggeration, misrepresenation or fabrication of an idea. You were the one requesting dead bodies to be recovered after a successful base assault. Which means the bodies have to be recovered, either form the UFO or from your base. Which means the bodies have to end up in your base at the start of the assault, or x-com having unhindered access to the UFO. The aliens dragging their dead comrades out of the UFO is not an exaggeration or misrepresentation - it's the only explanation that makes sense if x-com doesn't also recover the rest of the UFO. Otherwise, how do the bodies end up in your base? I asked you - repeatedly - to clarify your stance on this, and how any of this is supposed to make sense in-game. Your response? "It's a straw man! I didn't say that!" True, you didn't say it, but that is the implication of what you're proposing. You were free to adress that point and explain how this should be handled. Why didn't you?

I'd also like to point out that it is not on me to provide you with scenarios for your proposed mechanic. You know how many enemies normally spawn during a base defense, and what items they can carry. The point is not to come up with an explanation for one uniquely defined case, but a general principle that's feasible to implement - you are the one claiming that your mechanic is (supposedly) superior to what's in the game right now. To me it sounds more like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Again, as far as I can tell you're having trouble with or are actively in denial about the two endpoints of base defence scenarios - on one end we have the total destruction of the invading UFO, with no battlescape fight an accordingly no recovered loot, on the other side we have a full spawn of enemies in the base, with all the loot that can possible be recovered. Those are our starting points, from which we can define additional scenarios, according to defences present in the base. The current implementation - if enabled via lessAliensDuringBaseDefense=true - prevents enemy spawns according to the damage the UFO receives. Enemy spawns are the only thing that can feasibly be modified during base defense missions, because they are the only thing that actually spawns. Why - in your oppinion - is this mechanic arbitrary and not a natural progression? What makes your proposal - provided you can actually define it in a coherent way - more suited and less arbitrary, given that you want to introduce factors that currently don't exist at either end of the spectrum, let alone in the game?

While I'd accept that lore doesn't explicitly say the UFO isn't recovered after a sucessful defense, the UFO isn't actually recovered, and the game accordingly isn't balanced for it. Which implies that the UFO isn't recovered in-game. Point taken though, I cited lore when I shouldn't have. This still means you proposal would break existing game balance if implemented or you'd have to explain why bodies and equipment are recovered, but the rest of the UFO isn't.

Citing better armor and weapons (or research progression in general) in favor of your idea is counterfactual, since this ingores that game isn't balanced for base defence buildings providing free loot - the point of base defence buildings is to prevent base defenses taking place (which means no loot, not more loot, see above paragraph concenring starting points for base defences). In fact, neither armor nor weapons do ever provide the player with free loot or - by their sole existance - kill enemies. The feature in it's current form doesn't touch item/loot balance, since the recovered items represent actual enemies killed by your soldiers instead of 'free items' or additional loot for enemies that didn't spawn.

The reason I'm warning you about being on thin ice is same that I'm telling your going down a rabbit hole with your idea. Let me remind you that this started out with you requesting "bodies and loot" for enemies that didn't spawn. We are now talking about refactoring the loot balance for base defence missions, because the existing system (and not just the feature that was introduced) is apparently not to your liking. I've asked you to post your proposition in a place where it actually makes sense to post these complaints and suggestions of yours. Apparently I'm the one who has no idea what he's talking about, because I've asked you repeatedly to clarify what it is you're actually requesting, and whether you've any idea how any of this should be implemented. You haven't been able to answer either of those question, but you insist that your idea would be (or rather have to be) superior to what's currently implemented, as the current way is aapparently not - as I've tried to explain to you - a natural progression of base defence mission, but arbitrary.

Your initial complaint is based on a false assumption, your proposed solution is more complex and incoherent than both the new feature or the vanilla implementation, and you have to ask others to provide you with a scenario so you can work how your idea would actually be implemented.

Are you really wondering why I'm warning you about being on thin ice? Protip: Being on thin ice doesn't mean somebody is about to make you fall into the water. It's not a threat. It's a warning concerning your own inability to judge the position you are in.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 07, 2019, 07:59:07 pm
How do I get the access card to get into the hybrid embassy?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on September 08, 2019, 01:40:55 am
finally got heavy tactical suit.
But it gives me 2 ufopedia entries, one for the suit and another one exactly the same, but with (H) added to the title.
whats the difference?
(tritanium version does that too)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 08, 2019, 02:06:43 am
finally got heavy tactical suit.
But it gives me 2 ufopedia entries, one for the suit and another one exactly the same, but with (H) added to the title.
whats the difference?
(tritanium version does that too)
That is the version the hybrid agents you can get use, apart from that it's exactly the same
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on September 08, 2019, 05:12:32 am
thanks, that explains.
no hybrids yet though, hence the confusion.
another one, does the zombie cave respawn?
couldnt take it (got seriously wiped out no matter what i tried) and wanted to wait for better tech...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on September 08, 2019, 09:38:48 am
finally got heavy tactical suit.
But it gives me 2 ufopedia entries, one for the suit and another one exactly the same, but with (H) added to the title.
whats the difference?
(tritanium version does that too)

Sprite and description should be way different.
Suit with "(H)" means it has (H)elmet. There is a difference and it's fairly important. Helmet gives you additional 5 armor to right and left side and also protects you from smoke (and probably buffs some other resistance, I'm not sure), but it reduces energy recovery and reactions, in addition gal inside overheats faster in Hot maps.
It's just a matter of choice if you want one thing, or another. Most enemies don't use smoke too much and 5 armor at midgame isn't that important, while energy recovery and reactions is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 08, 2019, 01:41:43 pm
Sprite and description should be way different.
Suit with "(H)" means it has (H)elmet. There is a difference and it's fairly important. Helmet gives you additional 5 armor to right and left side and also protects you from smoke (and probably buffs some other resistance, I'm not sure), but it reduces energy recovery and reactions, in addition gal inside overheats faster in Hot maps.
It's just a matter of choice if you want one thing, or another. Most enemies don't use smoke too much and 5 armor at midgame isn't that important, while energy recovery and reactions is.
I thought it was for hybrid as when I looked through the ufopedia it always showed armor with a H as hybrid wearing it.
You're talking about gals though, are you sure you're talking about X-files or X-piratez?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on September 08, 2019, 03:00:28 pm
I thought it was for hybrid as when I looked through the ufopedia it always showed armor with a H as hybrid wearing it.
You're talking about gals though, are you sure you're talking about X-files or X-piratez?

Dang... I didn't notice it's other forum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 09, 2019, 11:21:33 am
ALL human armours have (H) versions for hybrids.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: hum88 on September 18, 2019, 07:03:17 pm
Hello

I am on samael's mission and my game crashes when i win by mind-controling or stunning last enemy. Here's my savefile https://ln2.sync.com/dl/edf102200/miqf9s5m-pxsewzx5-bvdp4tes-sd3gkvbn. I hope that can be of any help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on September 18, 2019, 11:05:09 pm
hi

it's fixed in 0.9.9e
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: hum88 on September 19, 2019, 04:58:34 pm
hi

it's fixed in 0.9.9e

I am using the latest version and still have the same problem if im trying to take samael with me instead of killing him. I will try using different OXCE+ version or something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on September 19, 2019, 05:26:05 pm
I am using the latest version and still have the same problem if im trying to take samael with me instead of killing him. I will try using different OXCE+ version or something.

Your save file says that you are using 0.9.9d
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on September 19, 2019, 07:02:22 pm
why has HWP minigun clip storage size 3? that seems awfully much for a simple ammo clip...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 19, 2019, 08:39:06 pm
why has HWP minigun clip storage size 3? that seems awfully much for a simple ammo clip...

Why not? It's a big bad minigun with clip capacity of 360 buullets after all ;)
More 'interesting' thing is that HWP's minigun has the same firepower as common minigun... And has no tritanium upgrade :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on September 20, 2019, 04:59:43 am
well 3 is like half the size of the whole tank...
don't really wanna add another large storage, so not using them for now.

another thing thats really bothering me though, mid game research (25% so far). i got 50 scientists, nowhere near a better lab and researching advanced/alien stuff just takes forever.
i got like 10 engineers/leader/commander/navigators piled up plus like half a dozen ufo interior (incl battleship), but can't really progess atm.
current research topics take several months (5 topics a 10 scientists each), so current gameplay is just waiting for better stuff and doing like 2 ufos per month for non-negative score.
trying not to take on any more (including alien bases), since that only costs soldiers, but can't give me any better tech for at least a year when i researched what i already got...
thats kinda not that entertaining...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Lohland on September 20, 2019, 05:16:19 am
More 'interesting' thing is that HWP's minigun has the same firepower as common minigun... And has no tritanium upgrade :(
And no hovertank with a minigun
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 21, 2019, 02:45:54 pm
How do progress through the Advent arc? I am aware that you have to get clinic files but as previously discussed it's a pain to get will this be changed and what then is next, some sort of Hybrid base?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 21, 2019, 05:36:07 pm
How do progress through the Advent arc? I am aware that you have to get clinic files but as previously discussed it's a pain to get will this be changed and what then is next, some sort of Hybrid base?

Base and opportunity to assault alien embassy (if you have it).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on September 23, 2019, 03:40:19 pm
Passing thoughts; I just turned the Black Lotus HQ inside out, and the low ceilings in the base corridors really made the basic grenade launcher nigh unusable; I couldn't shoot them more than about three tiles in any direction which is obviously A Problem when using any non-smoke rounds. Am I missing some kind of 'flat trajectory' fire mode, or is the basic GL just not suited for indoor use at all?

Wasn't really a huge problem as my "grenadiers" could run around being medics and grabbed guns off the fallen footmen, but it was still kind of annoying. (But not as annoying as the outrageously inconsistent corridor widths!)

Bonus "sucks to be you guys" and sprite bug screenshots;
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 23, 2019, 07:50:54 pm
Passing thoughts; I just turned the Black Lotus HQ inside out, and the low ceilings in the base corridors really made the basic grenade launcher nigh unusable; I couldn't shoot them more than about three tiles in any direction which is obviously A Problem when using any non-smoke rounds. Am I missing some kind of 'flat trajectory' fire mode, or is the basic GL just not suited for indoor use at all?

Wasn't really a huge problem as my "grenadiers" could run around being medics and grabbed guns off the fallen footmen, but it was still kind of annoying. (But not as annoying as the outrageously inconsistent corridor widths!)

Bonus "sucks to be you guys" and sprite bug screenshots;

It's a GL, not a RL ;) It HAS to shoot with arc trajectory because of ballistic law. You can knee and this will increase shooting range for a few tiles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Marrik on September 23, 2019, 10:15:18 pm
Hey, I'm just starting out and am still have to use cars and vans for transportation, and my weapons are handguns, shotguns, and a couple Calico SMG's I took from cultists. How do I fight sectoids? It seems like they take my guys out in one shot as soon as I start. If I shoot them, it doesn't put them down and their reaction fire instantly burns through any cover and kills in 1 hit. If I try to move from the starting position, their reaction fire hits my guy and kills them in 1 hit.

In regular Xcom, you start with several guys and longer range weaponry. How am I supposed to fight them with 2 shotguns or 2 pistols? Do I just have to avoid them until I get explosives?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 23, 2019, 10:39:04 pm
Hey, I'm just starting out and am still have to use cars and vans for transportation, and my weapons are handguns, shotguns, and a couple Calico SMG's I took from cultists. How do I fight sectoids? It seems like they take my guys out in one shot as soon as I start. If I shoot them, it doesn't put them down and their reaction fire instantly burns through any cover and kills in 1 hit. If I try to move from the starting position, their reaction fire hits my guy and kills them in 1 hit.

In regular Xcom, you start with several guys and longer range weaponry. How am I supposed to fight them with 2 shotguns or 2 pistols? Do I just have to avoid them until I get explosives?
You aren't really meant to fight the aliens until you progress far more into the game, for now focus on cults and creature missions, make sure to capture high rank people from each cult. You will be able to get explosives freely later into the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on September 24, 2019, 12:00:24 am
Yes, you´re not meant to.
If you really really wanna, its possible, but tough.
Try melee weapons...  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on September 24, 2019, 12:20:28 am
It's a GL, not a RL ;) It HAS to shoot with arc trajectory because of ballistic law. You can knee and this will increase shooting range for a few tiles.

Even so, the ballistic arc shouldn't be that aggressive, surely. I probably could've thrown grenades more effectively than using the 46mm launcher, which is kind of daft, because it implies that if you aimed the thing horizontally and fired, the round wouldn't go more than a few feet/meters before hitting dirt.



Hey, I'm just starting out and am still have to use cars and vans for transportation, and my weapons are handguns, shotguns, and a couple Calico SMG's I took from cultists. How do I fight sectoids? It seems like they take my guys out in one shot as soon as I start. If I shoot them, it doesn't put them down and their reaction fire instantly burns through any cover and kills in 1 hit. If I try to move from the starting position, their reaction fire hits my guy and kills them in 1 hit.

In regular Xcom, you start with several guys and longer range weaponry. How am I supposed to fight them with 2 shotguns or 2 pistols? Do I just have to avoid them until I get explosives?

'Just starting out', yet you're encountering aliens at... what month/year exactly? Sectoids have a psi-shield that absorbs a limited amount of damage per turn, so you need to focus them down with accurate fire from carbines or assault rifles at the very least.

Focus on the cults, as they're your main means of getting access to better equipment early on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 24, 2019, 07:26:51 am
Even so, the ballistic arc shouldn't be that aggressive, surely. I probably could've thrown grenades more effectively than using the 46mm launcher, which is kind of daft, because it implies that if you aimed the thing horizontally and fired, the round wouldn't go more than a few feet/meters before hitting dirt.

I agree with you, but it seems to be some sort of engine's specificity. Maybe the arc's angle could be adjusted in some way. Let's wait for what Sol will say. To my mind there is no need to any changes, because if it would be done we cannot use GL so effectively on the open maps.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on September 24, 2019, 11:29:35 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/PdDVH19.png?1)

This megamod will allow you to grow X-Com from its humbled beginnings, as a two-men team travelling the world in an expensive-looking car to the global the military force we all know and love. It contains many, many additions, like new mission types, enemies, equipment and story arcs (including the entirety (entirely?, - like WHOLE? ) of my previous project, the Final Mod Pack). It also places the game a bit more firmly in the 90's conspiracy genre and its clichés.
Defeat the enemies from the outer space, the oceans the underground, (..and from the ..dark, darkest corners of mind and space, dimensions.. ), but primarily within our own society!


GET THE MOD HERE: https://openxcom.mod.io/the-x-com-files

When in doubt, check Ivan Dogovich's installation tutorial: https://youtu.be/L1WUpX9n7gY?t=43m40s




Progress-o-meter by arc (estimated):

Church of Dagon: 100%
Black Lotus: 100%
Red Dawn: 100%
EXALT: 100%
Strange Life Forms: 100%
T'leth: 100%
Syndicate: 100%
Cyberweb: 100%
Dimension X: 100%
Zombies: 100%
Hybrids: 100%
Shogg: 72%
Cult of Apocalypse: 40%
Men in Black: 20%
[classified]: 1%
[classified]: 0%

Note that 100% does not mean there will be no changes or additions, only that I consider this arc done and fully functional.



For changelog, go here. (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5427.0.html)


... Hey Mr.D.J.!,   but where is *Twin Peaks* DLynch" stuff and things ?

..what about including also *Twin Peaks .. add at least some of the disturbing, thrilling, D.Lynch~/~Badalamenti  's dark-jazz mystéries from there, as such ..appreciation, /commemoration of the show
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Marrik on September 25, 2019, 04:49:59 am
Hey, one other question, is it possible to purchase Calicos? I researched them, but I don't have the option to buy them the way I do some other weapons I've researched.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 25, 2019, 07:11:37 am
Hey, one other question, is it possible to purchase Calicos? I researched them, but I don't have the option to buy them the way I do some other weapons I've researched.

For Calico acquisition you should learn 'Promotion I' and 'Non-Standart Weapons'. Actually, you can check all techs that you need in tech-tree screen (press key 'Q' on Geoscape screen). You will find there everything you need.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on September 27, 2019, 12:45:19 am
^^

LYNCH/BADALAMENTI - Dark Mood Woods (studio version) >~~  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuzYfUz5dNM
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on September 27, 2019, 01:45:00 am
^^

..btw., but in fact, that character (person´ dossier) suggested by me, Tanya/Lyta lybet, - would be abit more fitting into Area51 mod.. (than x-files)



btw2 - why, EVEN WHY,  you all .."keep" and develop 2 (almost) IDENTICal_by_theme mods ? ?  with ~~exact identical topics, themes, things, leitmotives, contents, ideas, etc...

i personally would, at best, (as best solution)  -  just joint, /merge of 2 into 1big.. 

(  ..simply fuse them, combine them both, into 1 bigger mod, ..under name *Area51 x-Files*,  for example..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2019, 12:19:27 pm
...what other mod?
You mentioned Area 51, but not only it isn't mine, I haven't even played it.
It would be wise to get off drugs once in a while.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on September 28, 2019, 01:53:00 pm
Nevermind that they're vastly different in scope, which only takes about five minutes of checking out Area51 to show. A51 is an expansion pack; XCF is really more of a total overhaul/rework.

Both mods have their place within the 'ecosystem' and merging them would be pointless. Nevermind it looks like XCF already has most of A51's content.

The only thing that really leaps out at me is the officer suit/flight suit stuff. It'd be kinda nice to be able to tell some of my soldiers apart a little easier at the point I'm at (everyone's wearing the green combat armour) but I know classic XCOM really doesn't support customization nearly as elegantly as its recent successors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2019, 03:22:14 pm
I could add a new armour :)

In other news, some proofs I've ben working like crazy for the past 2 months.

(https://i.imgur.com/a8gsHTS.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/xtsw1VD.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/1ItA0cy.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/sQzU2Ii.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/OqJy0sV.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/W0v91Nl.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/v7o49Tq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/VrBRWMn.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/99JktAn.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/TijMOhm.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on September 28, 2019, 05:29:47 pm
I could add a new armour :)

I'd say not so much entirely new armours as colour and headgear variants of existing combat/alloy/etc. armour sets. Stuff like officer suits that have no helmet, or berets/caps instead of helmets, medic suits that have white or pale green undersuits/plating and green cross decals, etc.

Though, for whole new stuff... I'm sure nobody's made sprites for them, but ghillie suits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_suit) and other effective camo would be pretty neat. Maybe nothing as crazy as Lotus ninjas, but something that makes your scouts harder to spot would be pretty slick. Maybe some high-tech active/adaptive camo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_camouflage) at later stages as well.

Obviously, neither kind would have very good protection values, and I realize that this is all, y'know, fairly time-consuming given the amount of sprites that would need to be made.

Quote
military interception

Neat! Anything that makes things feel more 'alive' is good in my books. XCOM aren't the only ones fighting this war after all. Is this only an early-game thing, or will they even manage interceptions late-game too?

Quote
old crop circles

Not so neat. Arbitrary loss of points because 'RNG said so' is kind of uncool, even if the point loss is just a slap on the wrist compared to how much you can make for cleaning up a bunch of zombies or whatever.

That said, you could keep this and remove the points penalty, using it as a way to hint at UFO/MiB/etc. activity outside radar range - similar to how you can read the activity graphs for past months to see where they're active.

Quote
ninja arts

oh, so are the ninja scrolls and lo wo's secrets finally going to have a use?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 28, 2019, 06:06:27 pm
I'd say not so much entirely new armours as colour and headgear variants of existing combat/alloy/etc. armour sets. Stuff like officer suits that have no helmet, or berets/caps instead of helmets, medic suits that have white or pale green undersuits/plating and green cross decals, etc.

I'm glad to see that someone share my own thoughts :) Solarius, hear the voice of your faithful adepts! ;)

...But I think we definitely need a top-tier armour, which provides high protection against kinetic weapons like mass drivers and Gauss (Sol, you'll know why very soon ;). Don't say a word about this turtle-like MAGMA's power armor. We need something, that gives a good protection and don't have so much penalties. AND we need stormtrooper armour without jetpack.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2019, 07:16:40 pm
I'd say not so much entirely new armours as colour and headgear variants of existing combat/alloy/etc. armour sets. Stuff like officer suits that have no helmet, or berets/caps instead of helmets, medic suits that have white or pale green undersuits/plating and green cross decals, etc.

Certainly doable, but would clutter lists.

Though, for whole new stuff... I'm sure nobody's made sprites for them, but ghillie suits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_suit) and other effective camo would be pretty neat. Maybe nothing as crazy as Lotus ninjas, but something that makes your scouts harder to spot would be pretty slick. Maybe some high-tech active/adaptive camo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_camouflage) at later stages as well.

Obviously, neither kind would have very good protection values, and I realize that this is all, y'know, fairly time-consuming given the amount of sprites that would need to be made.

But this already exists as the Jumpsuit... I see little space for anything similar.

Neat! Anything that makes things feel more 'alive' is good in my books. XCOM aren't the only ones fighting this war after all. Is this only an early-game thing, or will they even manage interceptions late-game too?

Early game mostly, but not only.
I just had this mission in my testing campaign, it was quite fun :) Those commandos really can harm a Sectoid.

Not so neat. Arbitrary loss of points because 'RNG said so' is kind of uncool, even if the point loss is just a slap on the wrist compared to how much you can make for cleaning up a bunch of zombies or whatever.

I have fun with them. :P

That said, you could keep this and remove the points penalty, using it as a way to hint at UFO/MiB/etc. activity outside radar range - similar to how you can read the activity graphs for past months to see where they're active.

Yeah, I could do that. Or I could leave it as is, because I made it when I was sober and knew what the fuck I was doing.
Honestly, the nerve of some people...

oh, so are the ninja scrolls and lo wo's secrets finally going to have a use?

Yes!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on September 28, 2019, 08:14:31 pm
Certainly doable, but would clutter lists.

Yeah, like I said, not elegant at all. If I was confident in my own sprite-tweaking skills I'd do recolours myself, but that wouldn't solve the clutter issue without some major tweaks to OXCE itself.

But this already exists as the Jumpsuit... I see little space for anything similar.

Ah, I'd... actually forgotten it offered some stealth improvement. I see on rereading the ufopedia entry that it does, so 100% my bad on that. Still kinda unclear on how the Stats-for-Nerds visibility values correlate to default values and actual visibility in the battlescape but I'll definitely give them a whirl in future ops to see how they perform.

Yeah, I could do that. Or I could leave it as is, because I made it when I was sober and knew what the fuck I was doing.
Honestly, the nerve of some people...

...excuse me, what? I was just offering some feedback on the idea. It's not a personal attack or an insult, I'm certainly not implying you're under the influence of anything, and I'm not demanding you change it this instant or I'll stop playing XCF or not recommend it to anyone I know ('cause I've already recommended it to a couple people).

My concern is simply 'can this event be countered directly?'. Whether that's by shooting down more UFOs or kicking in some MiB office doors or making sure that a crop circles event doesn't expire. In the latter case if it pops because the event expired then it's actually a pretty good idea because it outright tells you what you lost for ignoring it, without you having to dig through the manual/UFOP/forums to get that information.

Compare; an alien base in vanilla generates 150 negative points every month it's allowed to exist. You can stop this by blowing it up. Any UFO generates negative points for completing a mission. You can stop this by... blowing it up (or ambushing it on the ground but same thing in the end really). In both cases you have a clear case of losses that are preventable through direct action, though they may not be easy.

If it's merely points loss because RNG decided you lose points and there's nothing you can directly do about it, then that just leaves a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, is all. End of the day it's really not that many points, so I'm not going to be particularly upset by it.



All that aside, is the Black Lotus shrine mission still supposed to be popping up after clearing their HQ? I'm not looking forward to dealing with a ninja-infested jungle. Half a mind to pack as many incendiary grenades as possible and just burn it all down to stumps, really.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 28, 2019, 08:28:40 pm
Sorry to interrupt you, guys...  :)
Is this another device from Meridian's artifacts? http://prntscr.com/pc7d0c
I've already saw his crossbow and bow, but this is a new one for me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on September 28, 2019, 09:02:42 pm
Throwing knives in space? Okay.
IIRC though, the latest build doesn't mention which resistances the space suit offers, for what's worth. Or which suits are compatible with space missions (Power armor and little else I think).


All that aside, is the Black Lotus shrine mission still supposed to be popping up after clearing their HQ? I'm not looking forward to dealing with a ninja-infested jungle. Half a mind to pack as many incendiary grenades as possible and just burn it all down to stumps, really.


Someone should put this in bold words somewhere: Missions are generated at the end of a month. Even if you complete the research that defeats "X" faction, that will only affect the following month and the others, not your current one. Hence why it takes a while for new mission types to appear, and why sometimes you have to deal with missions that shouldn't trigger anymore.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 29, 2019, 12:10:26 am
I like more Military Interaction with X-com, it does certainly make it seem more real, maybe add a few more military missions like helping NATO/UN soldiers fight the alien threat, and maybe like MAGMA but early game if you help them out and give them tech they will give you tech in exchange and possibly give them advanced soldiers with early alloy ammo guns and armor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2019, 07:22:43 pm
Yeah, like I said, not elegant at all. If I was confident in my own sprite-tweaking skills I'd do recolours myself, but that wouldn't solve the clutter issue without some major tweaks to OXCE itself.

Actually it's fairly easy to recolour sprites automatically with this tool by Falko:
http://falkooxc2.pythonanywhere.com/spritepalette#
Giving specific instructions is beyond the scope of this thread, so if you need help, please ask in the right place: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2980.0.html

...excuse me, what? I was just offering some feedback on the idea. It's not a personal attack or an insult, I'm certainly not implying you're under the influence of anything, and I'm not demanding you change it this instant or I'll stop playing XCF or not recommend it to anyone I know ('cause I've already recommended it to a couple people).

(...)

Sorry, but it's a horribly immature recommendation. Will you complain the same way if you get a positive score from an event (which is often the case)? I don't think so.

Anyway, I think the argument "I am being punished unfairly!" is asinine. Who on Earth has ever said that the game is supposed to be "fair"? To make the mod "fair" you'd have to get rid of all randomness, starting with map arrangement (some setups are clearly advantageous to others), alien equipment (these Sectoids had plasma pistols before, now they have heavy plasmas, CHEATERS!), and so on. Let's not imitate Blizzard.

Also, while I need to work more on the presentation, this is a mod about global conspiracies. Feeling like you're in control of anything as a player would mean I did this wrong. The world is supposed to be unfair.

Of course, having said all that, I understand that the game can't be too frustrating to be enjoyable... But let's not lose shit over something silly like 100 points.

All that aside, is the Black Lotus shrine mission still supposed to be popping up after clearing their HQ? I'm not looking forward to dealing with a ninja-infested jungle. Half a mind to pack as many incendiary grenades as possible and just burn it all down to stumps, really.

Yes, some remnants of the Black Lotus still exists in some way (there are other situations where you can find them, like the Assassin Clans). The shrine missions is pretty relaxing though, not hard.

Sorry to interrupt you, guys...  :)
Is this another device from Meridian's artifacts? http://prntscr.com/pc7d0c
I've already saw his crossbow and bow, but this is a new one for me.

No, this one is used by sexy Mutons.

Throwing knives in space? Okay.

They're closer to Predator discs, but yeah.

IIRC though, the latest build doesn't mention which resistances the space suit offers, for what's worth. Or which suits are compatible with space missions (Power armor and little else I think).

Oh, you're completely right. Sorry, will fix ASAP.

Someone should put this in bold words somewhere: Missions are generated at the end of a month. Even if you complete the research that defeats "X" faction, that will only affect the following month and the others, not your current one. Hence why it takes a while for new mission types to appear, and why sometimes you have to deal with missions that shouldn't trigger anymore.

You are right, but:
1) This is no longer the case, as there's a newish option which solves this issue.
2) Even so, this mission is not supposed to be affected by whether you terminated Black Lotus or not.

I like more Military Interaction with X-com, it does certainly make it seem more real, maybe add a few more military missions like helping NATO/UN soldiers fight the alien threat, and maybe like MAGMA but early game if you help them out and give them tech they will give you tech in exchange and possibly give them advanced soldiers with early alloy ammo guns and armor.

THere's at least one such new mission in the upcoming release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on September 30, 2019, 08:01:57 pm
...sexy Mutons.

Sol, what are you doing? You're making a new fetiche for the teen fans' unstable minds and their naughty hands ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on October 01, 2019, 12:28:04 am
Sorry, but it's a horribly immature recommendation. Will you complain the same way if you get a positive score from an event (which is often the case)? I don't think so.

Nah, I'd just be confused.

Anyway, I think the argument "I am being punished unfairly!" is asinine. Who on Earth has ever said that the game is supposed to be "fair"? To make the mod "fair" you'd have to get rid of all randomness, starting with map arrangement (some setups are clearly advantageous to others), alien equipment (these Sectoids had plasma pistols before, now they have heavy plasmas, CHEATERS!), and so on. Let's not imitate Blizzard.

Also, while I need to work more on the presentation, this is a mod about global conspiracies. Feeling like you're in control of anything as a player would mean I did this wrong. The world is supposed to be unfair.

Of course, having said all that, I understand that the game can't be too frustrating to be enjoyable... But let's not lose shit over something silly like 100 points.

Nah, escalating difficulty is fine (otherwise you have no challenge), otherwise fair points. There should totally be curveballs, and things you aren't in control of initially, but the trick is finding something that's challenging but doesn't feel like bullshit, you know?

But let's be real-- if you were imitating Activision-Blizzard, you'd be charging us $60 just to download the mod and we'd have to pay $20 for each story arc, nevermind the $10 M.A.G.M.A. DLC or BlackOps Weapons Pack... ;)

Yes, some remnants of the Black Lotus still exists in some way (there are other situations where you can find them, like the Assassin Clans). The shrine missions is pretty relaxing though, not hard.

I figured that there would be remnants of such factions still hiding out even after the main power structure was taken down and noticed it's still tied to Game Progression techs via the , but I wanted to be sure it wasn't a mission generator hiccup.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Bobit on October 01, 2019, 05:57:21 pm
Sol, RNG in combat is a little more useful because it changes your plan. Whereas victory points lossage tends to just make you lose. A rule of thumb is that the earlier in the game the RNG happens and the more you can pre-plan for it, the fairer it is. Personally I think a little VP RNG would actually be mechanically good for XCOM, as it prevents bean-counting whether you'll make it to the next month. Either way <0.1% of games will be lost by this. It would still be <2% even if it was -1000 points imo, because you tend to lose only after most of your soldiers are dead. Now if there was an RNG chance to lose a base, that would really suck. Then again vanilla practically does that, base defenses are not a fun way to go out.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 01, 2019, 08:45:18 pm
Sol, what are you doing? You're making a new fetiche for the teen fans' unstable minds and their naughty hands ;D

All the time, man. All the time.

Nah, escalating difficulty is fine (otherwise you have no challenge), otherwise fair points. There should totally be curveballs, and things you aren't in control of initially, but the trick is finding something that's challenging but doesn't feel like bullshit, you know?

Yeah, I know. Not going to pretend all my ideas are great. But I am trying to not make a mod which is truly nasty to the player (as opposed to playfully rough, which is something I would like to make).

But let's be real-- if you were imitating Activision-Blizzard, you'd be charging us $60 just to download the mod and we'd have to pay $20 for each story arc, nevermind the $10 M.A.G.M.A. DLC or BlackOps Weapons Pack... ;)

Yeah, and everyone loses. ;)

I figured that there would be remnants of such factions still hiding out even after the main power structure was taken down and noticed it's still tied to Game Progression techs via the , but I wanted to be sure it wasn't a mission generator hiccup.

Yes, very good instincts, I appreciate it. Fortunately, this time it was a false alarm.

Sol, RNG in combat is a little more useful because it changes your plan. Whereas victory points lossage tends to just make you lose. A rule of thumb is that the earlier in the game the RNG happens and the more you can pre-plan for it, the fairer it is. Personally I think a little VP RNG would actually be mechanically good for XCOM, as it prevents bean-counting whether you'll make it to the next month. Either way <0.1% of games will be lost by this. It would still be <2% even if it was -1000 points imo, because you tend to lose only after most of your soldiers are dead. Now if there was an RNG chance to lose a base, that would really suck. Then again vanilla practically does that, base defenses are not a fun way to go out.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Maybe I should say it openly: I am not going to make events which would deliberately cripple your campaign, maybe unless it was a series of really bad coincidences.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 02, 2019, 10:13:24 pm
I could add a new armour :)

In other news, some proofs I've ben working like crazy for the past 2 months.

That new moon terrain looks tasty.

Would you mind if add my two cents regarding commendations and random events?

As far as I can tell these differ from the existing commendation mod in that they add stats and aren't commendations in the usual sense (as in something you'd get a medal for). Plase don't take this the wrong way - I'd love to have XCF-specific commendations - but I'm not particularely fond of them adding/modifying stats and the way they are awarded (or rather the naming/description). Would you consider using a sub-mod for commendations instead of integrating them into the mod (akin to how the geoscape palette is optional)?

I'm also not sure about gaining/losing points directly from random events - right now the player always has a choice or at least a (hypothetical) option to avoid losing points. Random events take that choice away from players. I'd rather see them tied to missions (or event chains, research unlocks etc.) than affecting the player score directly. X-COM is about having ultimate control about the direction of your agency by the decisions you make as a commander. Random events itself are a good addition if you give your players an option to actually react to them or mitigate their consequences - that way they add interactivity and force the player to make decisions concerning that event. Simply adding/deducting points as a totally random action fails to accomplish that.

You've posted the "Old Crop Circles" event as a teaser/example - looking at that I'm not sure what the take away from that is supposed to be. Do I have an option to avoid such events in the future? Why am I being 'punished' for something that was - apparently outside of my control? To me this feels more like something that should happen if the player ignores/fails to get to a crop circle site in time.

Existing mechanics have the player actively invested in the possible outcomes (e.g. you can chose to ignore missions sites, you can win or fail missions). The game - at least at some level - has or wants players to care about mechanics. I'm not sure taking that away is a good idea. This practically amounts to to telling the player that they lost points because of {x} without actually giving the player a reason why they should care about {x} as you are not offering them an option to influence the outcome of those events.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on October 02, 2019, 10:53:17 pm
I'm also not sure about gaining/losing points directly from random events - right now the player always has a choice or at least a (hypothetical) option to avoid losing points. Random events take that choice away from players. I'd rather see them tied to missions (or event chains, research unlocks etc.) than affecting the player score directly. X-COM is about having ultimate control about the direction of your agency by the decisions you make as a commander. Random events itself are a good addition if you give your players an option to actually react to them or mitigate their consequences - that way they add interactivity and force the player to make decisions concerning that event. Simply adding/deducting points as a totally random action fails to accomplish that...

I checked some more example events through the Github page, and I can confirm there's order within the chaos. Some random events are... Random, as the name says, but others can be results of your actions (or lack of thereof). For example, delaying to destroy a cult when you had the chance to do so originally had the chance of spawning missions that did lots of damage to your score (as in, spreading misinformation and such to hurt your organization). Now though, there are random events that can spawn that are related to that, which make you lose a bit of score.

By the way Solarius, you did say you were considering to implement rubber bullets for shotguns. What about an equivalent for rifles? Also, what about disposable rocket launchers?  There's one here that would make perfect sense for XCOM to have once you get to max promotion level and have access to military gear:
http://openxcommods.weebly.com/downloads11.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Vangrimar1 on October 03, 2019, 02:30:49 pm
It's time to introduce rewards. I would suggest two types of awards: military awards (do not give any skills, serve as a sign of merit) and personality traits (give an increase in skills, are given in especially difficult situations). It is perfectly acceptable to receive both types of rewards at the same time in the mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 03, 2019, 04:47:45 pm
It's time to introduce rewards. I would suggest two types of awards: military awards (do not give any skills, serve as a sign of merit) and personality traits (give an increase in skills, are given in especially difficult situations). It is perfectly acceptable to receive both types of rewards at the same time in the mission.
Yeah, I think some of these (stormtrooper for example) would be more fitting as traits than as regular commendations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 03, 2019, 05:41:55 pm
How do I equip tanks onto dropships? I'm trying to get a Tank/mass driver that I've reasearched and built onto my craft.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: ohartenstein23 on October 03, 2019, 05:44:14 pm
How do I equip tanks onto dropships? I'm trying to get a Tank/mass driver that I've reasearched and built onto my craft.

It's an armor that you equip on an AI Unit soldier.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2019, 07:24:44 pm
That new moon terrain looks tasty.

Thanks!
The recolour literally took me two minutes, but then Finnik made some nice hills.

Would you mind if add my two cents regarding commendations and random events?

As far as I can tell these differ from the existing commendation mod in that they add stats and aren't commendations in the usual sense (as in something you'd get a medal for). Plase don't take this the wrong way - I'd love to have XCF-specific commendations - but I'm not particularely fond of them adding/modifying stats and the way they are awarded (or rather the naming/description). Would you consider using a sub-mod for commendations instead of integrating them into the mod (akin to how the geoscape palette is optional)?

Let me explain using a gross exaggeration. Please don't take it as a mockery, I am just trying to illustrate something.

Imagine it's 1993, and Doom is about to be released. And ID Software get a letter like this:

"Dear Mr. Carmack and Mr. Romero,
I really like your new project, it looks fantastic! The graphics are so much better than in your previous game, Wolfenstein 3D. The weapons, the effects, level design, everything is so crispy. I can't wait to play it!
However, I must say I don't like the enemies much. Shooting Nazis was so much fun, why change it? Could you perhaps make Doom with the German soldiers, and release the demons as a separate add-on for those who like this kind of thing? That would be the best way to appease anyone!
I wish all you the best with your project!
- Wolfenfan"

So, to summarize: from a technical point of view it would be quite easy to separate this part of the mod and move it outside. Easier than most such things anyway. But from a design perspective, it's simply ridiculous. This is not how you make games, even as an amateur. The reasons are so painfully obvious that I won't even describe them.

Also, this system has been designed in details years ago, long before there was any hope it would even be possible. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THERE BY DESIGN.

I'm also not sure about gaining/losing points directly from random events - right now the player always has a choice or at least a (hypothetical) option to avoid losing points. Random events take that choice away from players. I'd rather see them tied to missions (or event chains, research unlocks etc.) than affecting the player score directly. X-COM is about having ultimate control about the direction of your agency by the decisions you make as a commander.

OK, now we're straight into bullshit territory. X-Com is and has always been precisely about not having much control. If anything, XCF has been too predictable and too controllable, especially for a game about goddamn world conspiracies. I tried to mix things up by randomizing everything, but many such decisions only served to annoy the player (Syndicate hunting anyone?). Now we have way better tools to achieve that.

Random events itself are a good addition if you give your players an option to actually react to them or mitigate their consequences - that way they add interactivity and force the player to make decisions concerning that event. Simply adding/deducting points as a totally random action fails to accomplish that.

What a boring idea.
I don't want to play chess. I want some excitement in my life. This is supposed to be fun, not an exercise in... well, whatever it is. (The internet calls it "autism", but I really dislike this term.)

You've posted the "Old Crop Circles" event as a teaser/example - looking at that I'm not sure what the take away from that is supposed to be. Do I have an option to avoid such events in the future? Why am I being 'punished' for something that was - apparently outside of my control? To me this feels more like something that should happen if the player ignores/fails to get to a crop circle site in time.

Some of these events are unavoidable. The world around you is unavoidable. As I said, if you had total control over such things, it would be a bad X-Com game. This is not what I want, and I happen to have the last word here.
But then again, most events are preventable by for example shutting down the offending organization, or by research, etc. In fact, many events are specifically designed to harm you if you stall with your progress (especially when doing so is some sort of exploit, like for example not destroying some cult because it's a source of some resource). So it's not uncoupled from player's actions and you're supposed to react to them.

Existing mechanics have the player actively invested in the possible outcomes (e.g. you can chose to ignore missions sites, you can win or fail missions). The game - at least at some level - has or wants players to care about mechanics. I'm not sure taking that away is a good idea. This practically amounts to to telling the player that they lost points because of {x} without actually giving the player a reason why they should care about {x} as you are not offering them an option to influence the outcome of those events.

Gosh, now you're such a drama queen. "Waaah, I lost 50 points, now the game is unplayable!"

Feedback is great. Good feedback is priceless. Your feedback is and has always been very good. But in this case I think you've built some sort of a model of how the game will look like which is not supported by much evidence and likely off. Why not give it a try first? Lots of people play the GitHub (unreleased) version - it's buggy, but perfectly playable. (Will require the latest OXCE, also unreleased but available from Meridian.)

I checked some more example events through the Github page, and I can confirm there's order within the chaos. Some random events are... Random, as the name says, but others can be results of your actions (or lack of thereof). For example, delaying to destroy a cult when you had the chance to do so originally had the chance of spawning missions that did lots of damage to your score (as in, spreading misinformation and such to hurt your organization). Now though, there are random events that can spawn that are related to that, which make you lose a bit of score.

That's all true. I didn't have to write this after all :)

By the way Solarius, you did say you were considering to implement rubber bullets for shotguns. What about an equivalent for rifles? Also, what about disposable rocket launchers?  There's one here that would make perfect sense for XCOM to have once you get to max promotion level and have access to military gear:
http://openxcommods.weebly.com/downloads11.html

I can do that. I'm not sure how it works in real life, though.

It's time to introduce rewards. I would suggest two types of awards: military awards (do not give any skills, serve as a sign of merit) and personality traits (give an increase in skills, are given in especially difficult situations). It is perfectly acceptable to receive both types of rewards at the same time in the mission.

Yeah, I think some of these (stormtrooper for example) would be more fitting as traits than as regular commendations.

Sorry, I have no idea what the difference is between the two.

Whatever it is, the engine supports commendations (and transformations), not whatever else you have in mind, so it's pointless to discuss.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 04, 2019, 03:27:46 am
not sure if XCF related (probably not), but i´m having a lot of issues with line of fire while shooting through fences.
basically line of fire exists when shooting through fence, but fence remains block line of fire. also they´re kinda hard to destroy.
IMO it should hardly happen when you shoot through a fence, whats left of it blocks further fire...
(firing anyway almost always won't work, since the bullets just go into fence remains)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 06, 2019, 12:09:43 pm
what about *Stalker type, kind of mission ?

"Picnic_at_way" Site mission = investigation, collecting, and researching artefacts, events, anomalies, and penomenons, leaved at abandoned UFO -contact site = "Zone"..

i suggest new kind of character for X-C.F. - Stalkers, as collectors, pathfinders, and veteran"scouts" of locals Zone sites

also few of artifacts of, from Zone:

https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Artifacts

https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_artifacts

https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Artifacts
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2019, 06:11:03 pm
Zones? In XCF? Where? How???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 06, 2019, 08:47:12 pm
also, why...? ^^
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 07, 2019, 07:48:12 am
The idea about STALKER is not bad, but I don't think we need a pack of missions. To my mind, it would be better to do a single mission (like the mission with Altar of Black Lotus) in Pripyat with using bio suits only (hazardous terrotory, you know). Put the name of it 'Chernobyl anomaly'. A lot of hostile stalkers defend the Sphere, and we need to eliminate them. The main loot is Golden Sphere (costs 2.000.000$) and some lesser artifacts, useless ('junk' type), but expensive (10.000-50.000$), with description refers to original story (easter eggs, yes). What is the origin of this sphere? Well, this is another 'gift' of Golden Lady (if you want some refer to XCF).  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on October 07, 2019, 11:53:03 pm
I can do that. I'm not sure how it works in real life, though.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Disposable rocket launchers, or rifles using non-lethal ammo? IRL has examples of both. Moreover, Piratez has the former, so you could try copy-pasting if nothing else works.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 08, 2019, 12:15:13 am
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Disposable+rocket+launchers
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on October 08, 2019, 11:40:19 am
The idea about STALKER is not bad, but I don't think we need a pack of missions. To my mind, it would be better to do a single mission (like the mission with Altar of Black Lotus) in Pripyat with using bio suits only (hazardous terrotory, you know). Put the name of it 'Chernobyl anomaly'. A lot of hostile stalkers defend the Sphere, and we need to eliminate them. The main loot is Golden Sphere (costs 2.000.000$) and some lesser artifacts, useless ('junk' type), but expensive (10.000-50.000$), with description refers to original story (easter eggs, yes). What is the origin of this sphere? Well, this is another 'gift' of Golden Lady (if you want some refer to XCF).  :)

It's more about Roadside Picknic than S.T.A.L.K.E.R., story from the game would work better since whole Zone and its creation is a conspiracy, the main theme of X-Com Files.

Going trough Monolith Forces into Sacrophagus to uncover the secret of the Wish Granter. This could be a special other way to learn psy-thingies outside of Ethernals.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 08, 2019, 12:34:54 pm
It's more about Roadside Picknic than S.T.A.L.K.E.R., story from the game would work better since whole Zone and its creation is a conspiracy, the main theme of X-Com Files.

Going trough Monolith Forces into Sacrophagus to uncover the secret of the Wish Granter. This could be a special other way to learn psy-thingies outside of Ethernals.

You are right, Mr. Shukhart :P
But is it really matter? We can take setting of any game/book/film and adopt it for current conspirative settings of XFC. Look at the MIB. Are they  look like defenders of the Earth from the original films? No! They are f@cking traitors! ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 08, 2019, 04:15:58 pm
The idea about STALKER is not bad, but I don't think we need a pack of missions. To my mind, it would be better to do a single mission (like the mission with Altar of Black Lotus) in Pripyat with using bio suits only (hazardous terrotory, you know). Put the name of it 'Chernobyl anomaly'. A lot of hostile stalkers defend the Sphere, and we need to eliminate them. The main loot is Golden Sphere (costs 2.000.000$) and some lesser artifacts, useless ('junk' type), but expensive (10.000-50.000$), with description refers to original story (easter eggs, yes). What is the origin of this sphere? Well, this is another 'gift' of Golden Lady (if you want some refer to XCF).  :)

The idea is sound as an X-Com mission. The problem is with fitting something this big and obvious in a world which is supposed to be mundane on the surface, or at least explicable to the public without admitting to too much.
This will probably be shaken by Reptoids, who are less worried about such things, if I ever get around to doing this.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Disposable rocket launchers, or rifles using non-lethal ammo? IRL has examples of both. Moreover, Piratez has the former, so you could try copy-pasting if nothing else works.

I meant BB rounds for rifles. I know they exist, but not sure about the stats. Piratez only have shotgun ammo.

You are right, Mr. Shukhart :P
But is it really matter? We can take setting of any game/book/film and adopt it for current conspirative settings of XFC. Look at the MIB. Are they  look like defenders of the Earth from the original films? No! They are f@cking traitors! ;)

Depends for whom.
I think the MiB movies are still mostly defensible as XCF canon, at least their basic premise and characters. But they're from the perspective of the other side. ;)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 08, 2019, 06:42:55 pm
I think the MiB movies are still mostly defensible as XCF canon, at least their basic premise and characters. But they're from the perspective of the other side. ;)

They are trying to hide alien presence - that's the only similarity between original MIB and XCF's. The other aspects of their activity are opposite to ours. But who knows, how the wheel will turn it the future... ;)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 08, 2019, 06:51:03 pm
^^  ""..SolariusScorch::..But they're from the perspective of the other side...""   --

-- not quite, not so ..much, - better spoken, the MiB are somewhat, somewhere in the middle, between.. ("our"  (ordinary) ´world´ /life, ..    and all others (*Outer Limits*)   lifes,  events, phenomenons.. etc..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 08, 2019, 06:59:37 pm
Sure, not fully compatible, 1:1. But I like to think that they're people too, and that their idea of dealing with the aliens isn't objectively wrong.

That's the thing about this conflict: everyone thinks they hold the only acceptable position and their opponents are stupid.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 09, 2019, 07:07:15 pm
I´m kinda stuck with cult of apoc...
got a pontif (actually all of them from that map), but research wise it got me nowhere.
now what? am i missing something?

also, UFOs screw me over big time (score wise).
its been said you´re not supposed to take them all on. can't intercept yet anyway.
but there are so many per month and they cost so much score each...
last month was -850 just from UFOs i could neither intercept nor assault landed. all missions where positive.
(not sure how much that embassy costs per month)
this month i´m forced to take on a battle ship with 8 guys in armored vests or i´m gonna loose... (if that still helps)
skymarshall still in construction...

EDIT:
to mention it, progression from skyraider to marshall is kinda weird. basically once you can research the first there´s everything you need to research the better versions, so no need to ever build the smaller ones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 09, 2019, 10:51:09 pm
I´m kinda stuck with cult of apoc...
got a pontif (actually all of them from that map), but research wise it got me nowhere.
now what? am i missing something?

Nah, this arc is in WIP and there's no more content.

to mention it, progression from skyraider to marshall is kinda weird. basically once you can research the first there´s everything you need to research the better versions, so no need to ever build the smaller ones.

Yeah, I keep changing the balance, looking for the sweet spot. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 10, 2019, 01:30:49 am
i see.
what about samael then? its in the research tree...

sure, balancing a mod this size takes some time... ^^

EDIT:
maybe the different crafts could be used in connection with that horrible "public car/..." stuff for e.g. beach/ski missions and such.
I´m not gonna keep a van around all game just for these missions.
But maybe skyraider could be kinda stealthy and be used for that. Or researchable upgrade. Something like that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 10, 2019, 07:20:32 am
Yeah, I keep changing the balance, looking for the sweet spot. :)

Nothing strange with progression of transport. Each craft has it's own parameters. Yeah, some of crafts are almost useless, but it should be so - that's the basic point of 'choice'.

The really question is why some crafts has opened front door? These f@cking enemy grenades inside the craft which destruct all the equipment... Arrrggghh!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on October 10, 2019, 07:38:13 am
Nothing strange with progression of transport. Each craft has it's own parameters. Yeah, some of crafts are almost useless, but it should be so - that's the basic point of 'choice'.

The really question is why some crafts has opened front door? These f@cking enemy grenades inside the craft which destruct all the equipment... Arrrggghh!

I believe that's intended, to discourage you from taking so much stuff. We might not be living in the days of the 80-item limit any more, but that's no reason to cram your craft full of things so that you're ready for any given situation.

Speaking of craft though, it'd be really nice to have a 1x1 Garage that can hold stuff like cars or pickups or vans, but not larger vehicles. I imagine this is a technical/engine-side kinda thing though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 10, 2019, 10:06:08 am
The really question is why some crafts has opened front door? These f@cking enemy grenades inside the craft which destruct all the equipment... Arrrggghh!
thats natures way of saying "don't pile equipment where grenades could be flying".
I actually prefer the open doors. better angle to shoot. good for shooting guys before they can throw stuff at me...  ;)

that 1x1 garage is probably engine wise not a small thing.
(unless someone did that already)
like the idea though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 10, 2019, 10:18:33 am
i see.
what about samael then? its in the research tree...

Also WIP.

EDIT:
maybe the different crafts could be used in connection with that horrible "public car/..." stuff for e.g. beach/ski missions and such.
I´m not gonna keep a van around all game just for these missions.
But maybe skyraider could be kinda stealthy and be used for that. Or researchable upgrade. Something like that.

Yes, Skyraiders land on beaches all the time... :D

Seriously, keep the van.

The really question is why some crafts has opened front door? These f@cking enemy grenades inside the craft which destruct all the equipment... Arrrggghh!

Why not?
Also, more like "almost all crafts"... ;-)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 10, 2019, 12:01:19 pm
Why not?
Also, more like "almost all crafts"... ;-)

Sounds sadistic! ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 10, 2019, 02:57:34 pm
Yes, Skyraiders land on beaches all the time... :D

Seriously, keep the van.
well it could drop them off at a click distance or so.
its not like you have the vehicle in those maps anyway  :P
just the thought of literally crawling around half the world in a van, for days, just because on the last 1km or so you don't want a military vehicle to be seen... xcom should be smarter than that.
there´s some smart advisors. they even noticed the 2k$ price tag on the flashlights  ;)

I´m seriously not gonna waste 4 precious building spots (bases are so freaking small) to keep an insanely slow tiny vehicle in there i might need for some rare missions...
hope none of them is mandatory.
sure i could put it up on secondary or tertiary base, but that still comes with allocating some veterans there and i can't spare any.
2nd base has 2 full gyms since many months and none of the soldiers is close to finished.
if you´re going to fight a risky fight with low tech small pistols and soldiers without armor, you even need to permanently block a hangar for it just to be able to do so if the chance arises...
thats just too high of a price to pay. as much as i like the mission diversity, the vehicle requirement is just too much.
also pretty sure a skymarshal could easily be loaded with at least 2 vans...  ;D

tldr:
-there´s gotta be a better way for undercover troop transports after early game
-gyms (and prisons etc) have waaay too low capacity. base size is like vanilla. facility count is not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 10, 2019, 03:19:38 pm
that 1x1 garage is probably engine wise not a small thing.
(unless someone did that already)
like the idea though.

There were several requests made by different people with the same idea on multiple threads. Unfortunately, if it's done in a way that is at least mildly realistic, it requires important changes to the code.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 10, 2019, 04:01:53 pm
base size is like vanilla. facility count is not.

Everything is all right with it. You just need to specialize each base: for military&transport, manufacture, training and science. A bit more game experience, and you will learn how mix the types with each other and optimize structures' quantity.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2019, 12:07:32 am
Well, you can just buy the van when you need it and sell immediately after mission. It's a legit strategy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 11, 2019, 02:52:47 am
Everything is all right with it. You just need to specialize each base: for military&transport, manufacture, training and science. A bit more game experience, and you will learn how mix the types with each other and optimize structures' quantity.
actually doing that. but training still takes like half a year and each base has a full science roll out, since i have a serious backlog there.
also training is just not enough without actual combat experience.
currently building even more bases, but it takes some months too.

Well, you can just buy the van when you need it and sell immediately after mission. It's a legit strategy.
at the beginning i did that. but delivery times plus the long travel time are just too slow for a lot of missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 11, 2019, 07:15:49 am
also training is just not enough without actual combat experience.

Of course not! That's why exist such missions like hunting for different monsters or attacking hybrid structures - a perfect combat training with minimal risks.

but delivery times plus the long travel time are just too slow for a lot of missions.

Delivery time is only one hour.
Travel time? The time being of all covert missions' length for a several days (near 5 days or more - don't know exactly). You don't have 3-5 c. missions in a day, so you have enough time to manage all of them. Moreover, after researching 'advanced undercover operations' you'll be able to purchase a pickup with capacity of 5 and speed of 400 - much more suitable than van.  :)
And what about the beginning... 3 hangars will with 3 vans are enough to manage almost all missions - believe me. Yeah, some missions on counter semisphere could be lost, but it does not matter. Just focus on researching of HUMVEE.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 11, 2019, 09:34:24 am
so basically its not anymore just to micro your stuff, but also to macro a steady supply of experienced soldiers.
not sure if i like that part. its kind of a grind...
mechanic wise makes sense though.
tbh most of my concerns atm are trying to get research done. 2 bases @40 scientists and at least 2 years stuff to research in backlog. 3rd base still in construction.
i feel like i´m falling behind, since there´s 1 alien base and 2 embassies on the map already. game is so variable its hard to grasp any metrics to determine if its going good or not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 11, 2019, 10:06:24 am
so basically its not anymore just to micro your stuff, but also to macro a steady supply of experienced soldiers.
not sure if i like that part. its kind of a grind...

Yes, it is, but if you are playing on 'superhuman' difficulty, such grind is vital. It's a part of global strategy. Moreover, you should begin a selection of soldiers since you'll research 'metapsychology' and focus on the training of selected soldiers. Otherwise you'll have a big troubles even with sectoids, I'm not saying about etherials...

i feel like i´m falling behind, since there´s 1 alien base and 2 embassies on the map already. game is so variable its hard to grasp any metrics to determine if its going good or not.

The only metric is your own game experience and skill :) What is current in-game date on your calendar?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 11, 2019, 10:43:53 am
20th may 99.
playing on veteran...
ye i got psi training already, but its again just 10 capacity per lab (build 2 per base). psi amp takes a lot of research i don't have yet.
not yet seen any psi improvement though...
psi control is pretty much my largest loss factor for soldiers. well that and plasma weapons... >_>
still using miniguns, no plasma yet. for anyone weaker the makro smg kinda rocks ^^

well i could estimate it better if i´d have at least completed it once...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 11, 2019, 10:56:29 am
20th may 99.
playing on veteran...
ye i got psi training already, but its again just 10 capacity per lab (build 2 per base). psi amp takes a lot of research i don't have yet.
not yet seen any psi improvement though...
psi control is pretty much my largest loss factor for soldiers. well that and plasma weapons... >_>
still using miniguns, no plasma yet. for anyone weaker the makro smg kinda rocks ^^

well i could estimate it better if i´d have at least completed it once...

Oh, everything is ok then. :) A little tip: a good strategy is to combine science and training grounds. I'm always do 2 bases with full pack of science buildings (not only labs) and with 6 gyms and 6 psi-labs on each base, so I have 120 soldiers in training by the end of 1999. If you are average in tactical combat, such quantity should be more than enough.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 11, 2019, 11:48:38 am
oh... so you can't train them at both same time? that explains a lot...
and how to get your psi guys into proper armor if they don't do regular training?
thats about what i was going for. problem is just the cost. how do you afford all that?
i have 12mio income and 8mio maintenance already.
(USA/canada/UK stopped paying. and it seems spain never paid a dime at all...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 11, 2019, 12:30:51 pm
oh... so you can't train them at both same time? that explains a lot...
and how to get your psi guys into proper armor if they don't do regular training?

You can put a soldier both to gym and psi-lab. There is no problem with it :)

thats about what i was going for. problem is just the cost. how do you afford all that?

There is no secret - I'm just complete all the missions which could be completed at all :) As I understand you've missed all covert missions... That's bad, especially about beach missions. Osiron is an important source of money and artifacts in pre-invasion stage of the game. And one more thing... Because I'm playing on 'superhuman', farming of UFOs is the most profitable: even a small scout could bring you 1,5-2kk or even more. The money isn't a problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2019, 12:57:28 pm
Guys, you can use a goddamn helicopter for the Surftime mission. Not to mention the pickup.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 11, 2019, 03:18:17 pm
Guys, you can use a goddamn helicopter for the Surftime mission. Not to mention the pickup.

Since the missions that require the Helicopter or the Pickup also use specific weapon subsets, they can be launched from secondary bases.

By the way, why the Pickup  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_truck)is called as such, when it's more of a SUV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_utility_vehicle)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 11, 2019, 03:21:50 pm
Looks more like a pickup to me... But I am open to changes here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 11, 2019, 10:04:59 pm
Since the missions that require the Helicopter or the Pickup also use specific weapon subsets, they can be launched from secondary bases.

By the way, why the Pickup  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_truck)is called as such, when it's more of a SUV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_utility_vehicle)?

Pick-up has a such tha little "cargo space", just behind the driver´s (crew) cabin
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2019, 01:57:49 am
Pick-up has a such tha little "cargo space", just behind the driver´s (crew) cabin

Yeah, well - maybe SUV would indeed be closer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 12, 2019, 03:06:15 am
Looks more like a pickup to me... But I am open to changes here.

A typical pickup body, even like one with a cargo shell, does have a vertical gap that separates the cabin from the cargo (with shell). The battlescape vehicle doesn't have such gap. Moreover, the renders of the interior appear a single continuous area, thus suggesting it's a SUV and not a Pickup Truck with a shell.

I can't quite pin point which model was used to create the vehicle terrain item, but it comes close to a 1990s Cherokee XJ model. The UFOpedia picture doesn't quite match the image of the battlescape vehicle. So, I'm attaching a image that could replace the UFOpedia one if so desired.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 12, 2019, 11:15:48 am
Love it! Taken.

...so, how should this vehicle be called after all?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 12, 2019, 04:40:04 pm
hehe, i strongly recommend took those classic´al Toyota Hilux´es,  yu take

Hilux, Toyota hilux!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 12, 2019, 04:42:10 pm
^^  it recommeds 9/10  jihaad´ combatants, / ISIL islamics terrorists
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 12, 2019, 09:22:09 pm
Love it! Taken.

...so, how should this vehicle be called after all?

Well, the UFOpedia image is from a Jeep Cherokee XJ from late 1990s.  So, a bland name for the string could be "LUXURY-SUV".

However this is a very American vehicle. I don't know if this is iconic enough for the rest of the world.

Alternatively, a Range/Land Rover can be used as well. In fact, I think now that's the vehicle used for the vehicle terrain (Land Rover Defender). So for comparison I attach these as well.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: BlackStaff on October 13, 2019, 01:19:20 pm
I prefer the Land Rover...  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 13, 2019, 03:05:19 pm
I intended to give this a timeley follow-up, but I haven't been active on the forums the last few days.

Let me explain using a gross exaggeration. Please don't take it as a mockery, I am just trying to illustrate something[...]

So, to summarize: from a technical point of view it would be quite easy to separate this part of the mod and move it outside. Easier than most such things anyway. But from a design perspective, it's simply ridiculous. This is not how you make games, even as an amateur. The reasons are so painfully obvious that I won't even describe them.
Point taken, though the same could be said about the geoscape palette and I only asked you if you would consider it. Would you instead consider putting the whole commendation-stuff in a separate rul-file or at least add comment lines so it's easy to find? Because this is going to be a pain to sort out otherwise.

As for
OK, now we're straight into bullshit territory. X-Com is and has always been precisely about not having much control. If anything, XCF has been too predictable and too controllable, especially for a game about goddamn world conspiracies. I tried to mix things up by randomizing everything, but many such decisions only served to annoy the player (Syndicate hunting anyone?). Now we have way better tools to achieve that[...etc.]

Okay, first off: I can make my soldiers hunt down and kill every civilian on a terror site. I can send a pilot to his doom by going up against a battleship in a helicopter. I let my agents engage alien monstrosities in suits and baseball bats. I have total control over the direction x-com goes in regarding bases, production, research and missions - including when (or if) humanity should be rid of the alien threat for good.

We might have very different definitions of what the word "control" means.

I'm not sure you understand what I was trying to point out. This was about basic game design choices. I explicitely said that random events can be a good addition if they are handled the right way. Telling the player that he lost x points due to a totally random event that he has absolutely no influence on is a bad design choice and is in and of itself not a meaningful gameplay element. You might as well make the notification read "you lost x points because the developer hates your guts". Unless you give the player a reason why they should care that they just lost points the notification/random event is just a distraction from actual gameplay (aka "press okay to continue the game").

Correct me if I'm wrong, but right now every interruption on the geoscape that pop ups is connected to player interaction, direct or indirect: finished research/production, detected UFOs, completed item transfers, training etc.

Random events that do nothing but "punish" the player without a prior action or a way to avoid that negative outcome lack any connection to player interactivety and (as pointed out above and in my prior post) don't add meaningful gameplay.

Gosh, now you're such a drama queen. "Waaah, I lost 50 points, now the game is unplayable!"

You'll notice that this isn't what I said. The point is that you're confronting the player with a meaningless box which that they have to close to continue playing. It doesn't matter if it's 50 points, 150 points or no points - if the player has no influence at all concerning this event you're interrupting gameplay for no good reason. Compare this to how the game doesn't inform you every time you lose points due to alien actions either - just a the end of the month. And those events are actually preventable.

Feedback is great. Good feedback is priceless. Your feedback is and has always been very good. But in this case I think you've built some sort of a model of how the game will look like which is not supported by much evidence and likely off. Why not give it a try first? Lots of people play the GitHub (unreleased) version - it's buggy, but perfectly playable. (Will require the latest OXCE, also unreleased but available from Meridian.)

Again, I'm not stating that introducing random events is bad. I'm telling you to refrain from introducing meaningless interruptions to the game, judging by what you've posted in this thread concerning upcoming gameplay elements. I'd be more than happy to be wrong on this one.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 14, 2019, 12:02:16 am
^^  ..sometimes, /offen (..well, more usually offten..) you loss in ..game, in life just due unknow reasons.. ~~
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 14, 2019, 09:52:20 am
^^  ..sometimes, /offen (..more usually offten..) you loss in ..game, in life just due unknow reasons.. ~~
unknown != random

I don't know how often I have to point this out. This is not about random events being bad. What I'm trying to illustrate is why random events whose only "real" consequence is that they interrupt game flow is a bad design choice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 14, 2019, 11:29:05 am
OK, Land Rover it is! :)

I intended to give this a timeley follow-up, but I haven't been active on the forums the last few days.

No worries, my records are pretty bad here as well. :)

Point taken, though the same could be said about the geoscape palette

It isn't really comparable. The Geoscape palette is just one thing, unrelated to any other element of the mod, and so it can be swapped with no consequences, like an app skin. Besides, it is purely aesthetic and doesn't impact the gameplay at all.

and I only asked you if you would consider it.

Yes, and I answered, with justification.

Would you instead consider putting the whole commendation-stuff in a separate rul-file or at least add comment lines so it's easy to find? Because this is going to be a pain to sort out otherwise.

Excuse me? Pain to sort out? For whom? I suffer no discomfort from the current setup... But thanks for the consideration, I guess.

(...) Telling the player that he lost x points due to a totally random event that he has absolutely no influence on is a bad design choice and is in and of itself not a meaningful gameplay element.

Gee, those people at Microprose really have no idea what they were doing. Games like Master of Orion or Master of Magic or Sim City (okay, that's Maxis) had random disasters which the player couldn't prevent, exactly like the new OXCE feature. Moreover, modern companies like Paradox are repeating these mistakes. What a bunch of idiots! Bad design!
Well, seriously speaking, I disagree. These elements were fun, and a big reason why these games were so fulfilling. They help create a bigger world beyond the player's data and actions.

You might as well make the notification read "you lost x points because the developer hates your guts". Unless you give the player a reason why they should care that they just lost points the notification/random event is just a distraction from actual gameplay (aka "press okay to continue the game").

Oh, but you can prevent most of these, as they're tied to activity of various organizations. Destroy the organization and the associated events will cease.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but right now every interruption on the geoscape that pop ups is connected to player interaction, direct or indirect: finished research/production, detected UFOs, completed item transfers, training etc.

Sorry, but at this point you're just ranting against the very existence of pop-up events. And in a very biased way, constantly implying that every event is punishing the player, which is a blatantly untrue.

Random events that do nothing but "punish" the player without a prior action or a way to avoid that negative outcome lack any connection to player interactivety and (as pointed out above and in my prior post) don't add meaningful gameplay.

More ranting against the feature itself. I have nothing new to say either.

You'll notice that this isn't what I said. The point is that you're confronting the player with a meaningless box which that they have to close to continue playing. It doesn't matter if it's 50 points, 150 points or no points - if the player has no influence at all concerning this event you're interrupting gameplay for no good reason. Compare this to how the game doesn't inform you every time you lose points due to alien actions either - just a the end of the month. And those events are actually preventable.

Again, I'm not stating that introducing random events is bad. I'm telling you to refrain from introducing meaningless interruptions to the game, judging by what you've posted in this thread concerning upcoming gameplay elements. I'd be more than happy to be wrong on this one.


Meaningless? MEANINGLESS?
Who the hell do you think I am, some rookie?

Anyway, I am not interested in responding to "critique" based on irrational fear of pop-ups. If you have arachnophobia, don't play games with spiders in them.

This is a fun feature, it stays and will get bigger over time. I know Piratez is going down exactly the same path.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 14, 2019, 12:18:43 pm
Ye, random events are need in every global strategy to make feel that you are not the navel of the earth ;) That is more realistic and rises replayability.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 14, 2019, 08:42:16 pm
Random events are fun if they are done correctly, you just have to make sure that some are preventable and the penalties are not too extreme.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 15, 2019, 12:50:19 pm
Solarius, I get the feeling that you're right now existing in some kind of bizarro world where sentences take on some whole new kind of alternative meaning. Why are you trying to imply things I never said?

At no point did I state that I am against random events. Nor did I say that random events having negative consequences is a bad idea. Nor did I say - or even imply that

[...]every event is punishing the player, which is a blatantly untrue[...]

Yes, that is indeed blatantly untrue, since it's not what I said or wanted to imply.

Let me paraphrase what I said:

That random events whose only outcome is punishing the player by substracting points and which can not be avoided, mitigated and have no further consequences (i.e. they are independant of player action regarding their cause and outcome) are a bad idea.

I am not ranting about random events in general. If anything I am ranting against a very specific design of random events. At this point I might as well be ranting about you being a blockhead, because you are trying to rationalize design choices by citing games that aren't even in the same genre and whose implementation of random events underscores what I am trying to tell you. This is on top of those games not even having a direct analogue to the points system X-COM uses (namely a score system that can lead to a gameover).

Games like Master of Orion or Master of Magic or Sim City[...]

I happen to have played both Master of Orion II (please correct if any of the following doesn't apply to the first part) and Sim City (yeah I know, surprising). To preface this - random events were optional in both games. They were not inherently forced upon the player (disclaimer: this is not meant to imply that random events are bad. 'Forced' in this context implies that the player has no choice whether or not they want to include a game mechanic in their playthrough).

As far as I am aware random events in MoOII never simply substracted points from your score (as far as points/score analogy is even applicable here, see above). They were independant of the actual game state or story progression (as far as games in MoOII can be said to have an overaching storyline anyway). They could, however, be influenced, mitigated or outright avoided by player interaction: Increase science or industrial output or station military to prevent a bad outcome (plague, pirates, supernova etc.), pay off or fight a space dragon, avoid/refrain from hyperspace travel (monster in hyperspace, hyperspace flux) - in short, they forced interaction (even if that interaction happened to be 'fire planetside stellar converter at an invading space amoeba').

In SimCity the outcome of 'random' disasters (if enabled / or activated directly from the menu) is directly related to player interaction (or lack thereof) and your progression in the game - i.e. how many police/fire stations you have to contain events (for events that can be contained), the layout of your city (in 2000 certain disaster can only occur if you have the necessary buildings, e.g. NPP, Microwave powerplant etc.).

In both games random events generally forced interaction or were dependant on player action. They were not a simple "click X to continue playing" affair.

Sorry, but at this point you're just ranting against the very existence of pop-up events.

I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to adress this. It's evidently not true (seeing how I cited actual in-game pop-up events that are meaningful) and I have stated multiple times that random events are a good additon if they are done the right way. Pointless generalizations are one thing, but you're basically covering your ears and state that I'm implying things I am not. The problem with that approach is that you're failing to hear what I'm actually saying.

If you include random events whose only consequence is a score substraction and nothing else you might as well have players look at the score graph instead, because you intentionally designed those events to be meaningless. I don't see why that statement comes as a surprise to you or why you'd take offense in me pointing that out.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Ridаn on October 15, 2019, 04:46:51 pm
In my opinion random events are a staple for a reason. They help to spice up the otherwise monotonous experience and dynamically create situtions you wouldnt experience otherwise. Even if, while isolated and by themselves, those appear as simple as loss/gain of research, money, score or whatever the game has.

In addition, since it is a new system tacked onto a functional game, bad events are there to counterbalance good events - to make sure the progression and balance stay somewhat the same.

"Bad" simple events, such as gain/loss of 50 points and some fluff, can be used to enhance the atmosphere, and help with worldbuilding. And "cheaply" bloat event list of course. They are not bad per se.
"Good" complex events or event chains, with dependencies on missions that spawn randomly, can be completely missed (or messed up) by players, despite increased workload required to integrate and maintain them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: wcho035 on October 15, 2019, 04:58:13 pm
“Solarius, I get the feeling that you're right now existing in some kind of bizarro world where sentences take on some whole new kind of alternative meaning. Why are you trying to imply things I never said?]”

First this guy made some less than stellar remarks on Solarius’s random events, now he’s adding fuel to the fire. Just unbelievable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on October 15, 2019, 05:02:11 pm
Tthere ARE good random events to counter the bad ones, such as getting free gear, money, and so on. What you get is random, of course. Random events are not here to get your life and ruin everything, unlike say Paradox's games.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 15, 2019, 05:49:52 pm
ufo just shot down a van. a fucking van.
not even a chance to redirect that slow thing.
**** covert missions, once and for all. there´s just nothing good coming from that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 15, 2019, 06:03:12 pm
[snip]
I'm pretty sure Solarius can tell me himself if he thinks I'm being disrespectful and whether or not he's bothered by what I'm saying.

BTW, didn't you just state
Again, I don't care for the noise you make.
Must be one hell of noise I'm making then if you need to point it out to others.

ufo just shot down a van. a fucking van.
not even a chance to redirect that slow thing.
**** covert missions, once and for all. there´s just nothing good coming from that.
Yeah, that happens. I'm not sure the hunter/killer mechanic meshes well with 'land-bound' transports. It would be nice if those interceptions could be made trigger some kind of survive/escape mission instead so the agents stand at least a chance to survive.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Mathel on October 15, 2019, 06:29:32 pm
Yeah, that happens. I'm not sure the hunter/killer mechanic meshes well with 'land-bound' transports. It would be nice if those interceptions could be made trigger some kind of survive/escape mission instead so the agents stand at least a chance to survive.
Isn't there already a mechanic, where most of the soldiers (~90%) in the "shot down" transport survive and return some time later?
There is also a mechanic where you can target your own "plane" to escort it and should it get attacked, the escort is also drawn into combat.

It would, however make sense, if landbound transports were not able to be targetted by Hunter/Killers and if soldiers kept their pre-equipped gear. (Losing any gear just lying around in the transport.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 15, 2019, 06:50:02 pm
Isn't there already a mechanic, where most of the soldiers (~90%) in the "shot down" transport survive and return some time later?
There is also a mechanic where you can target your own "plane" to escort it and should it get attacked, the escort is also drawn into combat.
There are two variables, (pilotsEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance / crewEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChanceone) - for the crew and for the pilot, but they are global. The crew one also isn't enabled by default in XCF iirc.
I'd consider escorts more of a workaround for vans/cars. For one thing you're binding up an interceptor for longer time than when both crafts are 'airborne' and if worst comes to worst it's a trade-in (you lose the interceptor but might save the van). You can also lose both craft if you get a 'murder' (what is the right word for a group of battleships?) of UFOs. I've had multiple hunter/killer Battelships spawn on me at various points in the game.

Apart from that it's also kind of strange to have a covert OPs team in a van escorted by one or multiple interceptors because they are at risk of being attacked by UFOs. If the risk of the team getting killed is that high why do they need to travel the whole way in a van?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 15, 2019, 08:50:10 pm
lol i was suggesting something like that a while ago.
ye imo it´d be better if destroying a transport would trigger a mission, either base defense style immediate, or just like ufo recovery, except its your craft burning and in pieces...
(i think the 2nd would be better)
there´s gonna be heavy damage (and some crew dead) guaranteed, but at least you get a chance to get some back.
then again, if there´s an ufo shooting a van, won't leave much to recover.

but apart from game mechanics, this is seriously pissing me off...
like you gotta do a covert mission. but instead of going there as usual and doing the last km of travel undercover, no you stay about a week in some slow ass van around half the world, because someone might see you on arrival. but the aliens figure it out anyway and shoot your ******* van. the skyranger could fit at least 2 vans inside...

imo would be better if aliens dont intercept street vehicles. there´s like a billion around, how do they know anyway... >_>
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 15, 2019, 09:47:12 pm
...( @krautberg: )  .. -and even more, well, - in Master of Orion (a.k.a. "Civilizations in Galaxy" - instead of the city,cities, /areas yu got a whole planets, /star systems ) the "random events approach" is in form of such "galactic tv news", and as also such.. - ..just give you more "background story-arc, plot-arc, add more infos, and generally feeling of the MoO strategy..
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 15, 2019, 10:16:02 pm
...( @krautberg: )  .. -and even more, well, - in Master of Orion (a.k.a. "Civilizations in Galaxy" - instead of the city,cities, /areas yu got a whole planets, /star systems ) the random events approach are in form of such "galactic tv news", and as also such.. - ..just give you more "background story-arc, plot-arc, add more infos, and generally feeling of the MoO strategy..
GNN simply 'reported' on random events as well the states of the different empires (colonized planets, treasury, fleet strength etc.). Unless I'm toatally misremembering things MoO/MoO 2 had no actual background story or plot arcs that were explored during gameplay, beside from the orion special event in MoO2. I would have loved that game to actually have more lore or actual story arcs. The hero/leader system would probably have offered enough options to do so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: wcho035 on October 15, 2019, 10:22:59 pm
I'm pretty sure Solarius can tell me himself if he thinks I'm being disrespectful and whether or not he's bothered by what I'm saying.


Sorry, but at this point you're just ranting against the very existence of pop-up events. And in a very biased way, constantly implying that every event is punishing the player, which is a blatantly untrue.

More ranting against the feature itself. I have nothing new to say either.

Meaningless? MEANINGLESS?
Who the hell do you think I am, some rookie?

Anyway, I am not interested in responding to "critique" based on irrational fear of pop-ups. If you have arachnophobia, don't play games with spiders in them.

This is a fun feature, it stays and will get bigger over time. I know Piratez is going down exactly the same path.

Solarius did. However, how could one enjoy practising English.. oh sorry! ranting! With absolutely poor situational awareness, would have understood of the situation?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 15, 2019, 11:46:30 pm
suggestion:
when you get certain armors you have not researched yet (e.g. from processing men exclusively wearing a certain color), you should either be able to research them, or not be able to put them on, since its weird wearing armor but not knowing its stats...

on a different note, i´m getting picked apart. had 16 guys so tough they just needed to stare at a blaster missile for it to turn back where it came from and a bunch of rookies.
now there´s like 5 of them left and some guys who may or may not have seen combat. the training factory (or base...) just started.
so the idea was to get score by shooting down ufos mostly, so i can ignore a lot of other missions that may cost me some more veterans.
what kind of interceptor do i need to take on anything thats not a battleship (or maybe smaller than large)?

EDIT: and wtf happened with mib? first base was a piece of cake, but since then they´ve seriously teched up... there´s pretty much nothing they do not have...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 16, 2019, 07:12:33 am
what kind of interceptor do i need to take on anything thats not a battleship (or maybe smaller than large)?

Thunderstorm armed with 'heavy stingray' rockets and with trained pilot will be enough to strike down every single UFO, except very large ones. I use them to the end of the game, Retaliator and Avenger only for very large (or other, if Th.storms are on repair). Make sure to use pilots with maximized reaction to increase the survivability of your crafts. It's a good tactics to equip your pilots with 'cyber armor' or 'stormtrooper armor' and use craft's upgrade for evasion.

EDIT: and wtf happened with mib? first base was a piece of cake, but since then they´ve seriously teched up... there´s pretty much nothing they do not have...

Nothing happened, just random. You can meet MIB with light equipment and support or with heavy ones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 17, 2019, 08:28:57 pm
Solarius did. However, how could one enjoy practising English.. oh sorry! ranting! With absolutely poor situational awareness, would have understood of the situation?
Talked to Solarius, he says he's okay with it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on October 18, 2019, 09:44:11 am
It's a good tactics to equip your pilots with 'cyber armor' or 'stormtrooper armor' and use craft's upgrade for evasion.

I remember that I read somewhere that armor buffs and nerfs doesn't affect piloting skills. However I'm not 100% sure.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 18, 2019, 10:22:46 am
I remember that I read somewhere that armor buffs and nerfs doesn't affect piloting skills. However I'm not 100% sure.

Yeah, equipped armor does not change 'dodge' parameter on pilots screen. But as I've noticed during my games it still has affection in real battle. Hmpf... Maybe it's just a self-hypnosis, I don't know :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 12:50:20 pm
Hmm...wonder if enabling armor to modify dogfight parameters might be a worthwile idea to look at in itself. Maybe even requiring certain 'armors' to pilot a craft?

Having pilots wear suits while piloting a MIG or other high-performance crafts does seem kind of strange.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on October 18, 2019, 12:51:31 pm
Hmm...wonder if enabling armor to modify dogfight parameters might be a worthwile idea to look at in itself. Maybe even requiring certain 'armors' to pilot a craft?

Was discussed and rejected.

The soldier bonuses will apply in the next version tho.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on October 18, 2019, 01:02:46 pm
Hmm...wonder if enabling armor to modify dogfight parameters might be a worthwile idea to look at in itself. Maybe even requiring certain 'armors' to pilot a craft?

Having pilots wear suits while piloting a MIG or other high-performance crafts does seem kind of strange.

At best, I'd think you would have a custom flight suit* and most ground combat armours would be blacklisted. Fighter cockpits are... let's say space-efficient, and full of a lot of small controls - you wouldn't have the space for some kind of super powersuit, especially not one that inhibits manual dexterity. You sure as hell wouldn't have much space for weapons or other personal supplies either.

Just look up the interior of any reasonably modern fighter jet, really.

*Which could be interesting in itself, if you could (or even needed to) develop special high-tech piloting suits.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 01:21:30 pm
*Which could be interesting in itself, if you could (or even needed to) develop special high-tech piloting suits.
That's what I am talking about. I know how cramped cockpits can be (even of commercial aircraft). It's not only odd that you can pilot high-performance aircraft wearing nothing but a suit or leather coat, but also that you can apparently do it wearing something as bulky as a bio-exosuit. This might not be a problem with later craft that might be designed with that in mind or use artificial gravity, but it definitely feels off with early game aircraft.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 18, 2019, 03:10:37 pm
well on later tech level it´d be weird you actually need a pilot at all...
with all the alien tech computers and anti grav engines, but still human pilots fly that thing?
i´d imagine that more of an "autopilot, go there" or "fight that thing" level.
using AI units (and maybe plenty of flight control computer upgrades/extensions) could make a nice research tree as well...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 04:16:11 pm
Was discussed and rejected.
Ah, what a shame. Could you link me to the discussion/feature request?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on October 18, 2019, 04:42:15 pm
Ah, what a shame. Could you link me to the discussion/feature request?

Most likely in one of the huge threads... i.e. impossible to find.

PS: That's why I try to create one thread for each request... but people don't cooperate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on October 18, 2019, 04:47:04 pm
The newest release of Piratez hints about what will X-Com Files have as well, such as the already mentioned Freshness system (basically fatigue), random base name generators and... Grenades detonating on your hands if their timer reaches 0.  :'(
I hope this is not used here, as it would make everyone have to rework how grenades have been used in XCOM since forever, which is a shame. Granted, it's more realistic yadda yadda, but it's a game with sci-fi elements too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 04:49:52 pm
The newest release of Piratez hints about what will X-Com Files have as well, such as the already mentioned Freshness system (basically fatigue), random base name generators and... Grenades detonating on your hands if their timer reaches 0.  :'(
I hope this is not used here, as it would make everyone have to rework how grenades have been used in XCOM since forever, which is a shame. Granted, it's more realistic yadda yadda, but it's a game with sci-fi elements too.
You could still set the grenades to only explode after they've been thrown (don't know which fuse timer settings does what without looking it up, but it should be in the reference). It's also not realistic since in reality you likely wouldn't let go of the lever before throwing the grenade (seeing how most if not all grenades are designed to be primed the moment they are thrown, not beforehand).

Most likely in one of the huge threads... i.e. impossible to find.

PS: That's why I try to create one thread for each request... but people don't cooperate.
Yeah, figured as much since it the first time I've heard of it.

People toning it down with their requests and making better worded and defined requests would probably be beneficial as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Dioxine on October 18, 2019, 05:17:20 pm
That's what I am talking about. I know how cramped cockpits can be (even of commercial aircraft). It's not only odd that you can pilot high-performance aircraft wearing nothing but a suit or leather coat, but also that you can apparently do it wearing something as bulky as a bio-exosuit. This might not be a problem with later craft that might be designed with that in mind or use artificial gravity, but it definitely feels off with early game aircraft.

Armor is irrelevant for air combat, for Christ's sake... why add pointless limits.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 05:22:29 pm
Armor is irrelevant for air combat, for Christ's sake... why add pointless limits.
...immersion and exciting gameplay opportunities?  ::)

I mean if armor bonuses do indeed apply to dogfights, why not introduce armors that are specifically tailored to that? Seeing how interceptor pilots normally don't see ground combat, why not give players a selection of flight suits that don't offer much (or any) armor+resistances, but instead come with stat bonuses?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Dioxine on October 18, 2019, 05:27:06 pm
...immersion and exciting gameplay opportunities?  ::)

You can roleplay that element, like in an rpg choosing whether your character wears panties or not (assuming panties give no mechanical bonus).
Since armor gives no mechanical bonus in piloting, I see no sense in limiting armor choice.
Having said that, you also speak with ignorance: It is possible to mod it in. You just make a special soldier type "pilot", make his only armor a flightsuit, and disallow anyone else to pilot crafts. I think the 40k mod has it done like that.

That random events whose only outcome is punishing the player by substracting points and which can not be avoided, mitigated and have no further consequences (i.e. they are independant of player action regarding their cause and outcome) are a bad idea.

This is a fallacy, dude. You criticize existence of a strawman (Solar's events having punishing the player as the only consequence or purpose, "author hating your guts" as you put it, I could say, quite antagonizingly), without even KNOWING the events or the lore that is behind them. You can't behave like that. This is some postmodernist critique, "critic vs author" combat; taking your issues with imaginary world (game) into the real world (author). You're not an author. You're a spectator. Deal with it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 05:41:18 pm
You can roleplay that element, like in an rpg choosing whether your character wears panties or not (assuming panties give no mechanical bonus).
Since armor gives no mechanical bonus in piloting, I see no sense in limiting armor choice.
Having said that, you also speak with ignorance: It is possible to mod it in. You just make a special soldier type "pilot", make his only armor a flightsuit, and disallow anyone else to pilot crafts. I think the 40k mod has it done like that.
See my edit/follow-up. I'm also not saying it's not possible to mod in. I'm asking whether or not it would be a worthwhile addition, seeing that most interceptor pilots see limited if any ground-combat and don't necessarily need power/cyber armor. Why not offer armor that is specifically tailored to pilots? The point is not limiting craft pilots (which is off the table given meridians reply), but to offer alternative armors for different roles.

This is a fallacy, dude. You criticize existence of a strawman (Solar's events having punishing the player as the only consequence or purpose, "author hating your guts" as you put it, I could say, quite antagonizingly), without even KNOWING the events or the lore that is behind them. You can't behave like that. This is some postmodernist critique, "critic vs author" combat; taking your issues with imaginary world (game) into the real world (author). You're not an author. You're a spectator. Deal with it.
I don't know how often I have to point this out, I'm not against random events in general. I outright said - multiple times at this point - that random events can be a worthwile additon. What I'm against is a very specific design of random events. At no point did I say or imply that this is true of all random events. I could turn this whole argument around and accuse you in turn of misrepresenting my argument.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 18, 2019, 05:45:27 pm
Since armor gives no mechanical bonus in piloting, I see no sense in limiting armor choice.
mechanical bonus does not matter there. but of course a high tech armor could aid the pilot.
have you seen the pilot helmets for F35 pilots? there´s a lot of support tech in there...
e.g. you could have a cyber armor plug into flight control or weapon systems for better reaction time. and fancier HUD  ;)
or have the armor support the pilot at high g maneuvers, since the plane usually could take more stress than the pilot could.
that being said, i´d still favor AI units for piloting advanced fighter crafts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Ridаn on October 18, 2019, 05:49:15 pm
Just assume that pilot armor is a part of the craft. Why bother with making Armor that isnt even meant for battlescape, not even mentioning rebalancing dogfights to account for its existence.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Meridian on October 18, 2019, 05:53:15 pm
All pilots wear the same armor during piloting the craft.
By coincidence that armor gives no bonuses, how lucky.

Once on the ground, the pilots put on their combat armor.

Mystery solved. Move on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 18, 2019, 05:56:05 pm
Just assume that pilot armor is a part of the craft. Why bother with making Armor that isnt even meant for battlescape, not even mentioning rebalancing dogfights to account for its existence.
Assuming that armor is part of the craft is what we're doing right now (which doesn't hold up if pilots actually do get into combat wearing fance suits). We also already have niche-use armor that isn't really 'meant' for combat (lab coat, workers disguise etc. example) and more for looking the part. Seeing that armor bonuses will apparently apply going forward, balancing isn't really an argument.

By coincidence that armor gives no bonuses, how lucky.
Didn't you just state that going forward bonuses would apply to dogfights or was the "soldier bonuses"-part referencing something else?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: wcho035 on October 18, 2019, 06:14:49 pm
At no point did I say or imply that this is true of all random events. I could turn this whole argument around and accuse you in turn of misrepresenting my argument.

Or we can all achieve some peace by everyone totally ignoring of his postings. This can bring a measure of serenity in this forum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Dr.Crowley on October 18, 2019, 07:59:48 pm
Well, here we go again. I am finally back and have to start yet another new game. Guess I will find a lot of new stuff ;D It is nice to see XCF getting closer to be 100% complete.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 19, 2019, 09:16:57 am
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on October 19, 2019, 09:32:03 am
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???

Check the "INFO" menu on Napalm nade. It may cause more morale damage, or something like that. I'm pretty sure it's simillar to "Wille Pete" in XPiratez.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 19, 2019, 09:37:12 am
Check the "INFO" menu on Napalm nade. It may cause more morale damage, or something like that. I'm pretty sure it's simillar to "Wille Pete" in XPiratez.

I know, where to check info :P Damage to morale is the same - 1500%. The difference is damage model 50-150%, but that makes no sense, because I'm using mod with TFD damage model.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Ridаn on October 19, 2019, 11:10:54 am
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???
Most likely one is using vanilla fire damage model (5-10damage ignoring armor), while another does proper listed fire damage on top of that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 19, 2019, 11:43:22 am
I know, where to check info :P Damage to morale is the same - 1500%. The difference is damage model 50-150%, but that makes no sense, because I'm using mod with TFD damage model.
Why wouldn't it make sense, seeing how the mod uses the normal damage model? Of course things are going to be messed up when you use damage mods on top of that  ;)
But yeah, as far as I can tell the difference between the two grenades is the damage model (or rather the overall damage dealt) and the blast radius. Apparently the napalm grande can also totally incinerate a unit if it deals enough damage (IgnoreOverKill: false), but I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

BTW, last I checked the napalm grenade was buyable after reaching promotion III (I think) and the explosives license.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 19, 2019, 04:05:22 pm
All pilots wear the same armor during piloting the craft.
By coincidence that armor gives no bonuses, how lucky.

Once on the ground, the pilots put on their combat armor.

Mystery solved. Move on.

Love it  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 19, 2019, 05:25:30 pm
Why wouldn't it make sense, seeing how the mod uses the normal damage model?

I don't think that damage model 0-200% is normal at all. :P In my opinion, basic damage model of each firearm weapon should be constant - 100%. No less no more. 'Weapon damage' - 'Armor of impacted part of the body' = 'Resulting damage'. I could agree if damage would be dependent from the distance, but this 0-200% looks very strange for me. That's why I'm using TFD damage model mod. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: krautbernd on October 19, 2019, 05:29:24 pm
I don't think that damage model 0-200% is normal at all. :P In my opinion, basic damage model of each firearm weapon should be constant - 100%. No less no more. 'Weapon damage' - 'Armor of impacted part of the body' = 'Resulting damage'. I could agree if damage would be dependent from the distance, but this 0-200% looks very strange for me. That's why I'm using TFD damage model mod. :)
What I meant was normal as in "vanilla x-com" and the mod being designed around that. It stands to reason that if you change the overall damage model some things are probably going to break. You might want to check other item defintions as well if your intend is to keep overall progression/weapon balance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 19, 2019, 05:43:03 pm
What I meant was normal as in "vanilla x-com" and the mod being designed around that.

I understand it. I've just explained why I'm using that mod  :)
But if we'll back to 'normal' model, napalm grenade still have no significant advance. Lesser damage, lesser blast radius (napalm square 3x3 against 5x5 incendiary)...
Hey, Sol! How about to make radius 7? I want to love smell of napalm in the morning too!  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HinterDemGlas on October 19, 2019, 06:54:19 pm
But if we'll back to 'normal' model, napalm grenade still have no significant advance. Lesser damage, lesser blast radius (napalm square 3x3 against 5x5 incendiary)...
see:
Most likely one is using vanilla fire damage model (5-10damage ignoring armor), while another does proper listed fire damage on top of that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Mathel on October 20, 2019, 01:18:04 pm
I don't think that damage model 0-200% is normal at all. :P In my opinion, basic damage model of each firearm weapon should be constant - 100%. No less no more. 'Weapon damage' - 'Armor of impacted part of the body' = 'Resulting damage'. I could agree if damage would be dependent from the distance, but this 0-200% looks very strange for me. That's why I'm using TFD damage model mod. :)

I see the die roll on damage as how well you hit. Let's say you already hit the head. The 0 to 200% is the difference between the bullet going through the hair and the bullet hitting brain through an eye. Both hits to the head, but one only distracting, while the the other instantly lethal.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 20, 2019, 04:08:16 pm
I'm back! Sorry, it's really hard for me to find the time to sit down and respond to everything properly. It's at least an hour of my time, and I pour my whole free time into modding right now, as I want to finalize 1.0 ASAP. (Well not my whole free time, but the part where I can still count on my  brain to work.)

Solarius, I get the feeling that you're right now existing in some kind of bizarro world where sentences take on some whole new kind of alternative meaning. Why are you trying to imply things I never said?

Well, yeah, looks like a serious misunderstanding problem. I acknowledge that I must have misinterpreted your words, but I swear it was not intentional on my part, and not due to lack of attention. Let's try again.

But I also need to point out that everyone else seems to have understood it exactly the same way as I did, so I don't think the problem is with me...

That random events whose only outcome is punishing the player by substracting points and which can not be avoided, mitigated and have no further consequences (i.e. they are independant of player action regarding their cause and outcome) are a bad idea.

(...)

Well, the thing is, I still can't exactly pinpoint what's so bad about the events. If I understnad correctly, you want them to be something else than they are - to be more interactive. Which would be nice, I can't deny it, but that's not what they are; it's like criticizing X-Com air combat mechanics for not being a combat simulator. Events have a very specific scope and possible effects, and I'm using them to the fullest.

Events are not meant to have a great impact either way. They're there mostly for the fluff, with only some secondary effects on the gameplay. They're not there to give you a win or a loss, but to provide some context, some lore, to flesh out your role as an X-Com Commander. So, what do you mean by, "it's just a click, so it's meaningless"? From this perspective, books in The Elder Scrolls are pointless, since they "only" give you a +1 to some skill, so what's the point in having all those letters and sentences forming whole stories to read? It's enough to click them!

In my opinion random events are a staple for a reason. They help to spice up the otherwise monotonous experience and dynamically create situtions you wouldnt experience otherwise. Even if, while isolated and by themselves, those appear as simple as loss/gain of research, money, score or whatever the game has.

In addition, since it is a new system tacked onto a functional game, bad events are there to counterbalance good events - to make sure the progression and balance stay somewhat the same.

"Bad" simple events, such as gain/loss of 50 points and some fluff, can be used to enhance the atmosphere, and help with worldbuilding. And "cheaply" bloat event list of course. They are not bad per se.
"Good" complex events or event chains, with dependencies on missions that spawn randomly, can be completely missed (or messed up) by players, despite increased workload required to integrate and maintain them.

I'm quoting Ridan because he's spot on. Gameplay mechanics effects are minor, it's mostly for storytelling. In many respects, simply events do it better than missions. That's why I asked for this feature in the first place.

ufo just shot down a van. a fucking van.
not even a chance to redirect that slow thing.
**** covert missions, once and for all. there´s just nothing good coming from that.

Sorry to hear that. But a van is so cheap it doesn't matter, and your people should be fine. The only serious loss would be the gear, if you happened to have something good in it.

Isn't there already a mechanic, where most of the soldiers (~90%) in the "shot down" transport survive and return some time later?

Yes, in XCF the chance to survive is 97%.

There is also a mechanic where you can target your own "plane" to escort it and should it get attacked, the escort is also drawn into combat.

True, though this option probably isn't available at a time when you use vans.

It would, however make sense, if landbound transports were not able to be targetted by Hunter/Killers and if soldiers kept their pre-equipped gear. (Losing any gear just lying around in the transport.)

Maybe, but I can't do it anyway.

lol i was suggesting something like that a while ago.
ye imo it´d be better if destroying a transport would trigger a mission, either base defense style immediate, or just like ufo recovery, except its your craft burning and in pieces...
(i think the 2nd would be better)
there´s gonna be heavy damage (and some crew dead) guaranteed, but at least you get a chance to get some back.
then again, if there´s an ufo shooting a van, won't leave much to recover.

Based on Meridian's input, there is very little chance of having such as feature for a number of reasons.

but apart from game mechanics, this is seriously pissing me off...
like you gotta do a covert mission. but instead of going there as usual and doing the last km of travel undercover, no you stay about a week in some slow ass van around half the world, because someone might see you on arrival. but the aliens figure it out anyway and shoot your ******* van. the skyranger could fit at least 2 vans inside...

imo would be better if aliens dont intercept street vehicles. there´s like a billion around, how do they know anyway... >_>

As explained above, I can't make such a distinction (unless I missed something in the Ruleset Reference).

Solarius did. However, how could one enjoy practising English.. oh sorry! ranting! With absolutely poor situational awareness, would have understood of the situation?

I enjoy a little sparring myself, but this isn't the place for your personal vendettas. Stick to the subject
.
You have already been warned by, I think, all moderators on this forum, so I won't bother to do the same, as you seem to lack self-preservation instinct.

suggestion:
when you get certain armors you have not researched yet (e.g. from processing men exclusively wearing a certain color), you should either be able to research them, or not be able to put them on, since its weird wearing armor but not knowing its stats...

Easier said than done.
Well, it's the same with weapons - you don't have to research most of them to use them. But nobody forces you to.

on a different note, i´m getting picked apart. had 16 guys so tough they just needed to stare at a blaster missile for it to turn back where it came from and a bunch of rookies.
now there´s like 5 of them left and some guys who may or may not have seen combat. the training factory (or base...) just started.
so the idea was to get score by shooting down ufos mostly, so i can ignore a lot of other missions that may cost me some more veterans.
what kind of interceptor do i need to take on anything thats not a battleship (or maybe smaller than large)?

Sorry, I didn't understand this paragraph at all. Please reiterate.

EDIT: and wtf happened with mib? first base was a piece of cake, but since then they´ve seriously teched up... there´s pretty much nothing they do not have...

Yes, their technological means vary a bit.

I remember that I read somewhere that armor buffs and nerfs doesn't affect piloting skills. However I'm not 100% sure.

Right, aircraft pilots don't get bonuses and penalties from the armour. I assume they just wear flight gear, like Arcalane mentioned.

Instead of massing around with the code, I prefer to just make later fighters better overall (cybernetic interface etc.).

well on later tech level it´d be weird you actually need a pilot at all...
with all the alien tech computers and anti grav engines, but still human pilots fly that thing?
i´d imagine that more of an "autopilot, go there" or "fight that thing" level.
using AI units (and maybe plenty of flight control computer upgrades/extensions) could make a nice research tree as well...

AI units can pilot planes now. Because I agree, why wouldn't they?

Maybe I'll think of some special transformation for AI units to boost their stats, the same as humans and hybrids have (not yet released).

The newest release of Piratez hints about what will X-Com Files have as well, such as the already mentioned Freshness system (basically fatigue), random base name generators and... Grenades detonating on your hands if their timer reaches 0.  :'(

I hope this is not used here, as it would make everyone have to rework how grenades have been used in XCOM since forever, which is a shame. Granted, it's more realistic yadda yadda, but it's a game with sci-fi elements too.

I never liked how grenades work in X-Com even as a kid, it's silly that you can just carry them around and they don't explode. I have never used them this way, it feels cheaty as hell. I haven't done anything about this yet, though.

The Freshness thing is already done though, it's a cool feature.

Most likely one is using vanilla fire damage model (5-10damage ignoring armor), while another does proper listed fire damage on top of that.

Precisely.

I don't think that damage model 0-200% is normal at all. :P In my opinion, basic damage model of each firearm weapon should be constant - 100%. No less no more. 'Weapon damage' - 'Armor of impacted part of the body' = 'Resulting damage'. I could agree if damage would be dependent from the distance, but this 0-200% looks very strange for me. That's why I'm using TFD damage model mod. :)

...didja just diss randomness? I'm sure I misunderstood again, this would be way too absurd to even consider.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 20, 2019, 06:13:59 pm
...didja just diss randomness?

Not really. I just prefer more estimatable battles, and that is about all games, not only X-Com. Maybe it is some kind of a quirk of old chess player like me...  :) Anyway, possibility to enable TFTD damage model suits me and I have nothing to wish more.

My words didn't expect any argue. I'm just thinking about different aspects of the game and asking some questions from time to time. We are who we are - a true fans, who trying to get to the bottom of every detail of beloved creature  :)  Do you agree with me, Mr. Krautbernd?  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 20, 2019, 06:32:48 pm
Not really. I just prefer more estimatable battles, and that is about all games, not only X-Com. Maybe it is some kind of a quirk of old chess player like me...  :) Anyway, possibility to enable TFTD damage model suits me and I have nothing to wish more.

(http://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000147917932-hmfdkp-t500x500.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 20, 2019, 08:45:27 pm
wait the soldiers survive being shot down in a transport?
never got to know that...  :o

that other part was just about what interceptor type is strong enough to kill most ufos.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 21, 2019, 12:53:14 am
(so it's raining cats and dogs outside)

And I decided to play with the G-11 rifle a bit. I never liked the proportions, so I took the image and reworked it a bit. Added a firing sound just because.
@ Solarius: For your consideration.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on October 21, 2019, 12:53:55 pm
Events are not meant to have a great impact either way. They're there mostly for the fluff, with only some secondary effects on the gameplay. They're not there to give you a win or a loss, but to provide some context, some lore, to flesh out your role as an X-Com Commander. So, what do you mean by, "it's just a click, so it's meaningless"? From this perspective, books in The Elder Scrolls are pointless, since they "only" give you a +1 to some skill, so what's the point in having all those letters and sentences forming whole stories to read? It's enough to click them!

I'm quoting Ridan because he's spot on. Gameplay mechanics effects are minor, it's mostly for storytelling. In many respects, simply events do it better than missions. That's why I asked for this feature in the first place.

I'm reminded of something, then. Those who played the first XCOM remake might remember that there was a news ticker in the Situation Room (the one that showed you an overview of Panic/etc.) that had a rolling stream of comments on world events, colour-coded (grey-blue for neutral, green for good, red for bad).

Imagine, on the top or bottom of the geoscape, a rolling stream of comments ticked up by world missions and general filler, e.g.:
... /// 'CROP CIRCLES' SIGHTED IN MIDWESTERN AMERICA /// ABDUCTION REPORTS SKYROCKET AFTER 'FLOATING LIGHTS' SEEN IN SOUTHEAST CHINA /// FRENCH BEACH-GOERS REPORT SEEING 'FISH MAN' ACCOMPANIED BY 'BLUE-ROBED CULTISTS' /// RUSSIAN GANG VIOLENCE ESCALATES TO RUNNING THREE-WAY GUN BATTLE IN STREETS OF VOLGOGRAD, CASUALTIES UNKNOWN /// POLICE AND UNKNOWN MILITARY PERSONNEL SEEN ENGAGING SWARMS OF GIANT SPIDERS IN CHICAGO STREETS, CIVILIANS SAFELY EVACUATED /// ...

Another similar 'concept' is the Council Requests, where a country would come to you and request something in exchange for something else (e.g. give 10 alien alloys to get a scientist). So if an event comes up, instead of being "you lost points, press OK to continue", some could be "Russia is requesting assistance with personal protection for their military personnel" and if you commit resources then you get a small bonus but if you don't then you get the score penalty or whatever instead.

More engine-side feature requests, I know, but the could probably fit into the same niche without being a popup?



Not really. I just prefer more estimatable battles, and that is about all games, not only X-Com. Maybe it is some kind of a quirk of old chess player like me...  :) Anyway, possibility to enable TFTD damage model suits me and I have nothing to wish more.

My words didn't expect any argue. I'm just thinking about different aspects of the game and asking some questions from time to time. We are who we are - a true fans, who trying to get to the bottom of every detail of beloved creature  :)  Do you agree with me, Mr. Krautbernd?  ;D

Not having those 200% rolls is gonna hurt later, if I remember how tough sectopods could be in vanilla.

And whilst I do hate the variance at times, I can't deny there's a certain energy in seeing a soldier eat half a dozen shots to the face at point blank only to have tiny amounts of health damage and no mortal wounds.



(so it's raining cats and dogs outside)

And I decided to play with the G-11 rifle a bit. I never liked the proportions, so I took the image and reworked it a bit. Added a firing sound just because.
@ Solarius: For your consideration.

Looks pretty good to me, and the G-11 seems like a neat fit for an organization like XCOM. I admit I might be biased; I think caseless weapons don't get enough love/attention.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 21, 2019, 01:22:19 pm
G-11? Strange weapon. I could suppose that melee weapon can deal more damage in the hands of courageous soldier, but how bravery can affect on firepower... Mystery of mysteries  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 21, 2019, 08:40:20 pm
G-11? Strange weapon. I could suppose that melee weapon can deal more damage in the hands of courageous soldier, but how bravery can affect on firepower... Mystery of mysteries  :D
its probably like the red vehicles of the orcs. it works because they believe in it  ;D
related suggestion:
rusty fork. melee weapon. needs a highly skilled user and a lot of bravery.
but if you happen to take down someone with a rusty fork you get a big bravery bonus via commendation...  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 21, 2019, 09:21:10 pm
(so it's raining cats and dogs outside)

And I decided to play with the G-11 rifle a bit. I never liked the proportions, so I took the image and reworked it a bit. Added a firing sound just because.
@ Solarius: For your consideration.

Hmm, it looks... rather interesting. I'll check when I can, thanks.

I'm reminded of something, then. Those who played the first XCOM remake might remember that there was a news ticker in the Situation Room (the one that showed you an overview of Panic/etc.) that had a rolling stream of comments on world events, colour-coded (grey-blue for neutral, green for good, red for bad).

Imagine, on the top or bottom of the geoscape, a rolling stream of comments ticked up by world missions and general filler, e.g.:
... /// 'CROP CIRCLES' SIGHTED IN MIDWESTERN AMERICA /// ABDUCTION REPORTS SKYROCKET AFTER 'FLOATING LIGHTS' SEEN IN SOUTHEAST CHINA /// FRENCH BEACH-GOERS REPORT SEEING 'FISH MAN' ACCOMPANIED BY 'BLUE-ROBED CULTISTS' /// RUSSIAN GANG VIOLENCE ESCALATES TO RUNNING THREE-WAY GUN BATTLE IN STREETS OF VOLGOGRAD, CASUALTIES UNKNOWN /// POLICE AND UNKNOWN MILITARY PERSONNEL SEEN ENGAGING SWARMS OF GIANT SPIDERS IN CHICAGO STREETS, CIVILIANS SAFELY EVACUATED /// ...

Agreed, sounds fun.
(Actual design and then implementation would be tricky though...)

Another similar 'concept' is the Council Requests, where a country would come to you and request something in exchange for something else (e.g. give 10 alien alloys to get a scientist). So if an event comes up, instead of being "you lost points, press OK to continue", some could be "Russia is requesting assistance with personal protection for their military personnel" and if you commit resources then you get a small bonus but if you don't then you get the score penalty or whatever instead.

I think Meridian is playing around with something similar.

More engine-side feature requests, I know, but the could probably fit into the same niche without being a popup?

It's really not a good place for such suggestions, better visit the OpenXcom Extended subforum (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,22.0.html).

G-11? Strange weapon. I could suppose that melee weapon can deal more damage in the hands of courageous soldier, but how bravery can affect on firepower... Mystery of mysteries  :D

It runs on awesomeness.

rusty fork. melee weapon. needs a highly skilled user and a lot of bravery.
but if you happen to take down someone with a rusty fork you get a big bravery bonus via commendation...  :P

So what's next, poo on a stick? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on October 21, 2019, 09:52:48 pm
Agreed, sounds fun.
(Actual design and then implementation would be tricky though...)

I think Meridian is playing around with something similar.

It's really not a good place for such suggestions, better visit the OpenXcom Extended subforum (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,22.0.html).

Yeah, in hindsight I probably should've done that at the time. So, I've made a thread for the ticker (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7508.0.html) if anyone wants to throw in support or thoughts (ways it could be added on to/improved/etc.).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: nicedayright on October 21, 2019, 11:41:31 pm
Starting a new campaign again because so much has changed. I've gotta say, I really love the atmosphere of the early game in this mod so much. I can just imagine two of my agents tooling around in a car, chain smoking on their way to a reported UFO sighting, bullshitting about idiot yokels high on meth and hallucinating... then the same two agents later that night, slumped down in a truck stop diner, thousand yard staring at a cooling cup of coffee as they brainstorm reports on why there's a buckshot-ridden sectoid jammed unceremoniously in the trunk of their plasma scorched car. Probably my dream job, if I had one.

As a tactical takeaway, the shotgun AP ammo might be a bit strong for the early game: the high innate accuracy of shotguns combined with good damage and no armor penalty makes them, hands-down, better than the available rifles, especially for untrained agents. I might suggest creating two different ammo types: Shotguns Slugs available for normal shotguns early on with a penalty against armor (15%-20% maybe) and then allowing real AP rounds to become available for more advance shotguns, like the Black Ops Shotgun. This would reflect real life, as commercially available shotgun slugs are big, slow and inefficient against body armor, whereas more specialized Armor Piercing shells can't be safely fired from many civilian shotguns.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: HT on October 22, 2019, 12:16:41 am

I never liked how grenades work in X-Com even as a kid, it's silly that you can just carry them around and they don't explode. I have never used them this way, it feels cheaty as hell. I haven't done anything about this yet, though.


I hope you don't then. I always liked carrying prepared grenades like that. One thing I liked doing in X-COM as a kid was having useless agents carrying primed grenades, so that they serve as kamikaze and scouts at the same time. Sadly it's not a cost-efficient tactic to do, but Piratez changed that.

Sadly, IIRC dogs in X-Files cannot carry gear to precisely avoid doing that.

In any case: How many arcs are left? Can we have a estimated date for when will the final version be released? Just to know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on October 22, 2019, 08:53:49 am
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???

Napalm nades are equivalent to pre-0.9.2 incendiary grenades: they inflict immediate 40 fire damage and bypass armor, meaning even though the blast radius is lower, the immediate damage is much, MUCH higher. Incendiary grenades simply set the area and units in it on fire, which inflicts 5-10 damage each turn bypassing armor whereas napalm grenade inflict 20-60 fire damage immediately and possibly light the unit on fire.

By this nature, they are much more powerful than incendiary grenades.

Also they pretty much force panic whereas incendiary may not affect morale too much at times.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 22, 2019, 11:27:22 am
So what's next, poo on a stick? :)

don't tell me you never threatened someone with a rusty fork... ^^
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 22, 2019, 12:36:53 pm
Incendiary grenades simply set the area and units in it on fire, which inflicts 5-10 damage each turn bypassing armor

So why '60 damage' displayed on IG screen? Is it 'fake news' or what?  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on October 22, 2019, 12:53:44 pm
So why '60 damage' displayed on IG screen? Is it 'fake news' or what?  :)

Every inciendiary does also damage on hit in addition to damage over time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 22, 2019, 12:57:20 pm
Every inciendiary does also damage on hit in addition to damage over time.

So that NG not better, than IG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Ridаn on October 22, 2019, 01:31:26 pm
So why '60 damage' displayed on IG screen? Is it 'fake news' or what?  :)
Thats how Incendiary and Smoke define blast radius in vanilla, through power.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on October 22, 2019, 02:16:29 pm
Thats how Incendiary and Smoke define blast radius in vanilla, through power.

Hmm... oookay, now I got some point, thanks  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on October 22, 2019, 07:49:28 pm
So why '60 damage' displayed on IG screen? Is it 'fake news' or what?  :)

In vanilla all AoE used power to define their blast radius as P / 20 floored. However, power was also used to calculate damage at any specific radius.
Incendiary weapons and smoke grenades are an exception to this rule: those only use power for blast radius, but have 0 effective damage at any radius.

In XCF, incendiary grenades work with vanilla fire effects, so an incendiary grenade, inflicting 60 incendiary damage, merely sets a circle of radius 3 on fire.
Napalm grenades override this and work like regular grenades, inflicting FIRE damage.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 22, 2019, 08:46:37 pm
hey ^^*Summertime!

..but isnt time for Autumn-time ?   (..or even Wintertime, too?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 24, 2019, 12:28:08 am
Starting a new campaign again because so much has changed. I've gotta say, I really love the atmosphere of the early game in this mod so much. I can just imagine two of my agents tooling around in a car, chain smoking on their way to a reported UFO sighting, bullshitting about idiot yokels high on meth and hallucinating... then the same two agents later that night, slumped down in a truck stop diner, thousand yard staring at a cooling cup of coffee as they brainstorm reports on why there's a buckshot-ridden sectoid jammed unceremoniously in the trunk of their plasma scorched car. Probably my dream job, if I had one.

Thanks! This was... I suppose cooler than I expected the mod to produce. I love it.

As a tactical takeaway, the shotgun AP ammo might be a bit strong for the early game: the high innate accuracy of shotguns combined with good damage and no armor penalty makes them, hands-down, better than the available rifles, especially for untrained agents. I might suggest creating two different ammo types: Shotguns Slugs available for normal shotguns early on with a penalty against armor (15%-20% maybe) and then allowing real AP rounds to become available for more advance shotguns, like the Black Ops Shotgun. This would reflect real life, as commercially available shotgun slugs are big, slow and inefficient against body armor, whereas more specialized Armor Piercing shells can't be safely fired from many civilian shotguns.

Eh, maybe. But there are many other interesting weapons, I don't think the shotgun dominates that much.

In any case: How many arcs are left? Can we have a estimated date for when will the final version be released? Just to know.

1.0 should still happen in October. But it won't be the last release or anything.
As for the arcs, I have several in mind: Reptoids, Cult of Apocalypse/UAC, Black Sun.

hey ^^*Summertime!

..but isnt time for Autumn-time ?   (..or even Wintertime, too?

Yeah yeah... Soon. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 24, 2019, 01:06:47 am
Starting a new campaign again because so much has changed. I've gotta say, I really love the atmosphere of the early game in this mod so much. I can just imagine two of my agents tooling around in a car, chain smoking on their way to a reported UFO sighting, bullshitting about idiot yokels high on meth and hallucinating... then the same two agents later that night, slumped down in a truck stop diner, thousand yard staring at a cooling cup of coffee as they brainstorm reports on why there's a buckshot-ridden sectoid jammed unceremoniously in the trunk of their plasma scorched car. Probably my dream job, if I had one.
can totally understand that and your description is awesome  ;D
maybe you could add some background/lore to some stuff (or early game staff events), you seem to be good at that.

for me its very different though. xcom was for me always about starting out weak and low tech and sciencing/improving the shit out of everything until the aliens are just scared on sight "oh shit its those guys again   :'("
which makes the large tech tree even cooler ^^
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Arcalane on October 24, 2019, 01:14:33 am
Eh, maybe. But there are many other interesting weapons, I don't think the shotgun dominates that much.

Yeah, the CAWS' AP slugs are pretty beefy and accurate as soon as you get them, but the dedicated snipers you can get around the same time are a much better option for high-cost shooting because most of the good ones get the big damage bonuses for firing accuracy and have much better range.

You know would be really scary? AP slugs for the BlackOps Auto Shotgun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Joe Cool on October 24, 2019, 01:55:36 am
I am just wondering since a Windows EXE is bundled with the mod (are there source changes? is it on github? I can't find it):

Should there be an issue running the latest xcomfiles 0.9.9e2 on oxce 6.0? It seems to work fine on Win7 and Archlinux.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 24, 2019, 11:11:13 am
Yes, the latest release will work fine on OXCE 6.0.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 25, 2019, 12:58:42 am
Hmm, it looks... rather interesting. I'll check when I can, thanks.

The firing sound is from an actual G-11 firing. The wav file was ripped shamelessly from this YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_didDgUjn0).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: mrbiasha on October 26, 2019, 12:13:39 pm
Was a great mod when I just found it, still great and even better now, Solarius is doing great job for all us. For now can't wait for version 1.0, would be great opportunity to start a new campaign as I was beaten by the game again. I took too long in destroying human cults and when the invasion began I was stuck with advanced but still improper equipment and a torrent of different missions with increasingly stronger enemies. Must admit, that I love games which can beat me and make adjust my turtlish playstyles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 27, 2019, 01:10:16 pm
The firing sound is from an actual G-11 firing. The wav file was ripped shamelessly from this YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_didDgUjn0).

Sorry, but this sounds like toilet flushing under high pressure. XD

That's why weapon sound effects in games and movies are rarely taken from real life... They don't sound "right".

Was a great mod when I just found it, still great and even better now, Solarius is doing great job for all us. For now can't wait for version 1.0, would be great opportunity to start a new campaign as I was beaten by the game again. I took too long in destroying human cults and when the invasion began I was stuck with advanced but still improper equipment and a torrent of different missions with increasingly stronger enemies. Must admit, that I love games which can beat me and make adjust my turtlish playstyles.

Many thanks! And good luck next time. (1.0 soon)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 27, 2019, 02:53:05 pm
how about a thermite charge btw?
like high ex, but with flames :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Alex_D on October 27, 2019, 03:48:05 pm
Sorry, but this sounds like toilet flushing under high pressure. XD
That's why weapon sound effects in games and movies are rarely taken from real life... They don't sound "right".

Well, that sound is possibly due the very high cycling of the gun when firing in 3-round bursts, plus the echo and supersonic boom.

Sometimes life is stranger than fiction.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 27, 2019, 04:42:49 pm
here is some fence remains that seem to be immune to minigun fire...
LoS but no LoF (which is fine), but that fence just blocks any bullet...

on another note, alien data slates are weird.
i had 10 in store for years, but only now got alien vocabulary to decrypt them.
and suddenly all alien tech is researchable. thats kind of a really tight bottleneck there...


EDIT: just had an idea...
since there´s so much alien tech around biologic enchancement and mind stimulation... how about something like an improved gym? there´s gotta be some tech to make training faster...

EDIT2: another fence
both held 3x10 bullets from minigun... can't force fire through.
should i try alloy ammo for that? >_>
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 29, 2019, 01:08:09 am
and another one. prime example.
this hole in the fence was created by shooting at that guy. LoS and LoF present, no force fire.
But then hole in fence and no LoS anymore. Also force fire won't do sh*t against it...

EDIT: now that i notice it...
mission is a landed large UFO. been landed for more than a day already. but its a ton of hybrids and drones in industrial setting, instead of aliens in an UFO... is that supposed to happen?
weird kinda...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 29, 2019, 07:35:50 pm
on another note, alien data slates are weird.
i had 10 in store for years, but only now got alien vocabulary to decrypt them.
and suddenly all alien tech is researchable. thats kind of a really tight bottleneck there...

Well, I keep fiddling with this.

EDIT: just had an idea...
since there´s so much alien tech around biologic enchancement and mind stimulation... how about something like an improved gym? there´s gotta be some tech to make training faster...

Training is done by soldier type, not by facility.

EDIT: now that i notice it...
mission is a landed large UFO. been landed for more than a day already. but its a ton of hybrids and drones in industrial setting, instead of aliens in an UFO... is that supposed to happen?
weird kinda...

Sorry, not enough data.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 29, 2019, 07:51:10 pm
Training is done by soldier type, not by facility.
would it be possible to have a global upgrade, like "hey we figured out how to train all soldiers better"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Mathel on October 29, 2019, 08:10:34 pm
Training is done by soldier type, not by facility.
But facility dictates how many soldiers can train at a time. The advanced gym might not train soldiers to a better standard, but it could allow training them on smaller space, allowing more to train at a time.
would it be possible to have a global upgrade, like "hey we figured out how to train all soldiers better"?
As far as I am aware, that would require changing the class of all active and recruitable soldiers, as the maximal trainable values are within the class definition.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 29, 2019, 09:58:15 pm
Cannot produce/research BlackOps minigun alloy ammo...
I need to find the item first somewhere.
Considering alloy ammo and pretty much all related tech is researched long ago, IMO this shouldn't be this way.
Also probably tough chance some MIB or syndicate will show up with minigun and alloy ammo.
(if they do, oh boy... ^^ )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Dreams_Of_Cheese on October 30, 2019, 12:59:55 am
Cannot produce/research BlackOps minigun alloy ammo...
I need to find the item first somewhere.
Considering alloy ammo and pretty much all related tech is researched long ago, IMO this shouldn't be this way.
Also probably tough chance some MIB or syndicate will show up with minigun and alloy ammo.
(if they do, oh boy... ^^ )
i believe you need to progress into the syndicate arc to unlock alloy ammo for black ops weapons. i've done a few campaigns now and unfortunately i've never been able to research black ops alloy ammo before lasers. i hope that helps!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on October 30, 2019, 01:29:52 am
research tree says it just needs the item.
you probably found one there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on October 30, 2019, 02:32:02 am

on another note, alien data slates are weird.
i had 10 in store for years, but only now got alien vocabulary to decrypt them.
and suddenly all alien tech is researchable. thats kind of a really tight bottleneck there...

slates? what are slate

EDIT: just had an idea...
since there´s so much alien tech around biologic enchancement and mind stimulation... how about something like an improved gym? there´s gotta be some tech to make training faster...


^^i exactly know what you mean, - just something, like advanced "neural-musculature -nervatures training", - just like in ...


..~~in BenneGesseritt Sisterhood

(Dune, dune Universe..)



.. or just something like this ^^
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on November 01, 2019, 02:16:19 am
since sectopod is the ultimate tank...
how about beefing it up a little?
scatter laser instead of regular one. and melee attack. these legs can do more than walk...  ;D
at any rate, its incredibly cheap to manufacture.
(like most things requiring alloys and elerium. imo manufacturing cost could be increased for a lot of things)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 01, 2019, 09:37:23 am
But facility dictates how many soldiers can train at a time. The advanced gym might not train soldiers to a better standard, but it could allow training them on smaller space, allowing more to train at a time.

Yes, it would be possible.

As far as I am aware, that would require changing the class of all active and recruitable soldiers, as the maximal trainable values are within the class definition.

TBH I don't know what The Curse even meant, but I think you interpreted it correctly (and you are correct in your answer).

i believe you need to progress into the syndicate arc to unlock alloy ammo for black ops weapons. i've done a few campaigns now and unfortunately i've never been able to research black ops alloy ammo before lasers. i hope that helps!

I already made some changes in 1.0 to hopefully minimize this problem.

since sectopod is the ultimate tank...
how about beefing it up a little?
scatter laser instead of regular one. and melee attack. these legs can do more than walk...  ;D
at any rate, its incredibly cheap to manufacture.
(like most things requiring alloys and elerium. imo manufacturing cost could be increased for a lot of things)

Maybe you're right :) I do have such thoughts all the time...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on November 01, 2019, 05:53:21 pm
now this might be a stupid question...
i´ve manufactured an alien AI. where is it? can't find it anywhere...
got 2 regular AI units on that base and thats all non-human i can see anywhere...

EDIT: nvm. it just got delivered. why does it get delivered? thought i manufactured it... o_O
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: X-Man on November 01, 2019, 06:04:06 pm
EDIT: nvm. it just got delivered. why does it get delivered? thought i manufactured it... o_O

Since Mars is far from the Earth, delivering alien AI takes some time ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: Lohland on November 01, 2019, 06:14:39 pm
it just got delivered. why does it get delivered? thought i manufactured it... o_O

I guess this is a limitation of the game engine
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: ohartenstein23 on November 01, 2019, 07:11:42 pm
It counts as "personnel" and therefore must be delivered to the base in order to be properly added to the base's list of stuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on November 01, 2019, 09:31:23 pm
well there is an assigned person required too... so i guess it makes sense.
was unexpected though.

on another note, gotta love scatter blasters... ^^
line of fire, whats that?  ;D
miniguns don't care if there´s some stuff in the way.
scatter blasters don't care if there´s a house in the way...
and the higher fire cost but 15 shots instead of 10 makes it much more balanced vs weak enemies too. love it  8)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: LytaRyta on November 02, 2019, 02:45:37 am
^^   :O  :o
sounds amazing

can it penetrate, break throught the ufo´s wall ?  (i mean main, outer wall (hull)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
Post by: TheCurse on November 02, 2019, 03:00:12 am
nope pretty sure not. but there´s other stuff for that :)


What to do with alien habitat?
found not even a research topic for it...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 03, 2019, 07:02:48 pm
OK, this is the day. After four years of modding, version 1.0 has been released.

- Updated to OXCE 6.1.1.
- New features: random events, commendations (with bonuses), enhancement treatments; basic agent stats lowered for balance.
- New stat: Readiness, and associated exhaustion mechanics.
- New alien race: Chaser (sprites by Voidavatar and Finnik).
- New units: Owlman (sprites provided by Wizard Brandon, sounds by SparroHawc), Black Sun Stormtrooper, Muton Shader, Bio-drone, Ethereal Servitor, Ethereal Eliminator.
- New weapons: Messer, Hydra Laser, Magneto-Plasma Gun, Recoilless Gun, Mortar, Chainsaw (all from Piratez), Harpoon Gun, ADS (both by Finnik), Warp Rifle, Warp Cannon, Death Disc, Spectral Scythe, Cross.
- New items: Elerium Flare (by Starving Poet), Trace Flare, Rosary.
- New craft weapon: Heavy Stormlance.
- New dossiers: Grishka "Bullet" Yashin (by Dioxine), Agent "Smiles" McGee.
- New missions: Downed UFO Near Village, M.A.G.M.A. Cosmonaut Rescue (both by Finnik), Syndicate Field Test, They Came From The Sea, Depthpocalypse, Moon Outpost, Moon Underground Conduits, Alien Lunar Colony: Suburbia, Alien Lunar Colony: Main, Alien Lunar Colony: Core.
- Overhaul of agent advancement mechanics.
- Horrors now may appear on Exobiological Contamination missions after two years.
- More alien missions after invasion.
- Added armor values to certain UFOs.
- Dogs are now zombified into zombie dogs.
- Added extra "incentives" to make sure the player doesn't procrastinate.
- Psi now costs Readiness.
- Removed excessive Alien Data Slates and modified their rewards.
- Dog Bark now doesn't ignore armor completely.
- Power Armor no longer costs maintenance.
- New logos (by Arvidus).
- New Plasma Subrifle graphics (bigob by Brain_322).
- New Pickup picture (by Alex D).
- New backgrounds.
- New autopsy picture for Chaser (by Voidavatar).
- New fancy daze effect (by Finnik).
- Improved Ufopedia item page (by Kato).
- Added flags for dogs, rats and AI units.
- Added a submod with Cyrillic names (by Kato).
- Fixed funding from small countries.
- Minor updates and fixes.

Now, this doesn't at all mean that this is the end. I will continue releasing new versions just like before, at least for the foreseeable future (which means until I decide to start my next project). The 1.0 only means that I am satisfied with how the mod works now and consider it "done" enough to say so.


IMPORTANT NOTES:

1. Installation.
Unlike the previous (WIP) installments, 1.0 only contains the mod, not OXCE. You will need to get it separately. The mod has a built-in feature which gives you a warning if your OXCE is too old, but it only works on enabling the mod (so if you're unsure, disable the mod and re-enable it).

Also, the archive also contains two extra mods: Dark Geoscape (a darker palette for the globe) and XCF Cyrillic Names (for Russian and Bulgarian players). They are both optional.

You must unpack the mod folder. While OXCE reads .zip, this archive contains three different mods, so it won't be read correctly.


2. Updating from any previous version to 1.0.
Load, then save.
Then, open the save file in some text editor and change all:

Code: [Select]
mana: 0
on your agents to

Code: [Select]
mana: 50
or a similar number.

Congrats, your save is ready.

Also bear in mind that soldiers created and trained on previous installments will have significantly higher stats. This will not break the game or anything, but please understand that they're OP.

What to do with alien habitat?
found not even a research topic for it...

Alien Habitat has no function yet. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 03, 2019, 07:32:21 pm
alright  ;D
congrats on finally reaching 1.0  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Mathel on November 03, 2019, 07:41:29 pm
Once I finish my game of Piratez, I am going to try this again.
V1.0 is a big deal after all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Alex_D on November 03, 2019, 08:00:16 pm
Congratulations for version 1.0!
Just downloaded v1.0 mid campaign. I was using OXCE 6.1.1 already. Loaded and saved the game save in geoscape. No need to replace mana: 0 as they were already with some value.
So the new sorting items for agents are readiness and missing readiness.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 03, 2019, 08:16:46 pm
are you going to have a full installer for 1.0 at some time or is it going to be split from now on?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Meridian on November 03, 2019, 08:56:42 pm
Quote
2. Updating from any previous version to 1.0.
Load, then save. Then, open the save file in some text editor and change all:
Code: [Select]
mana: 0on your agents to
Code: [Select]
mana: 50or a similar number. Congrats, your save is ready.

Btw. this is not needed. OXCE rerolls zero mana on save upgrade.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 03, 2019, 10:42:21 pm
Btw. this is not needed. OXCE rerolls zero mana on save upgrade.

Thanks! I missed that feature.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Jimboman on November 04, 2019, 02:22:23 am
Once I finish my game of Piratez, I am going to try this again.
V1.0 is a big deal after all.

Same here.  It gets bloody confusing when you have two different mods on the go. :) It'll give me an excuse to start a whole new Xcomfiles game anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: BBHood217 on November 04, 2019, 06:10:11 am
Neat, I should probably start wrapping up my current Piratez game (though that one has to go through another update first, man Dioxine is fast) so I can finally play this mod that I heard was "Piratez except it's safe to stream".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 04, 2019, 12:53:31 pm
Hell yes, the full version is finally released! 20.00 $ for the day 1 horse rat armor when?
A shame that it no longer includes OXCE, I liked the lazy way of using the one included by the mod. Would the ones still offered by Piratez still work, or do I have to manually install the full thing?

Worse, the Shogg arc is still not finished, but that one can wait. What cannot wait is that it seems you only added "basic" chainsaws, not improved ones like those from Piratez. Not groovy!  >:(

Now seriousy, I'll see if I can give this a try soon, I'm eager to see how much has it changed since I played this years ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 04, 2019, 04:44:10 pm
Oh yeah rat armor needs to happen XD
Or alloy teeth.
Rat power armor  ;D
With mounted laser  ;D ;D
Perhaps flying would be a bit much though.
(There´s just been a study where they taught rats to drive small electric cars...)

I have 4 pet rats and they´re always scurrying around, very fast and very trainable animals...
And you do *NOT* want to get bit, if they´re serious about it.
Perfect for a fast ambush or just mass overwhelming your enemies  ;)
Could post some pictures for ufopedia entries or dossiers, but I´m really not good at downsampling image size and color palette to make it fit. :/
(Also thats why i kinda dislike the animal missions with rats. Weird enough the enemy dogs don't really bother me. I´m a monster...  :'( )

Maybe as attack animation jumping to half body height would be fitting, since they actually do that. Also its weird that you just got killed by a rat biting your shoe...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 04, 2019, 05:37:55 pm
One thing that will need to be updated are mods that were formerly compatible with XCF. For some reason the awesome Metal Gear Solid name generator no longer works, nor does the Recruitment Office staff. Or the Huey helicopter one.

Shame, especially the MGS one, which worked until now. Could this be related to not using the latest version of OXCE?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 04, 2019, 07:55:34 pm
Neat, I should probably start wrapping up my current Piratez game (though that one has to go through another update first, man Dioxine is fast) so I can finally play this mod that I heard was "Piratez except it's safe to stream".

I think it's a bit too safe perhaps :P

Hell yes, the full version is finally released! 20.00 $ for the day 1 horse rat armor when?
A shame that it no longer includes OXCE, I liked the lazy way of using the one included by the mod. Would the ones still offered by Piratez still work, or do I have to manually install the full thing?

Depends :) The current one should, AFAIK it's 6.1.1.

Worse, the Shogg arc is still not finished, but that one can wait. What cannot wait is that it seems you only added "basic" chainsaws, not improved ones like those from Piratez. Not groovy!  >:(

Maybe if I find a good narrative.

Oh yeah rat armor needs to happen XD
Or alloy teeth.
Rat power armor  ;D
With mounted laser  ;D ;D
Perhaps flying would be a bit much though.
(There´s just been a study where they taught rats to drive small electric cars...)

I have 4 pet rats and they´re always scurrying around, very fast and very trainable animals...
And you do *NOT* want to get bit, if they´re serious about it.
Perfect for a fast ambush or just mass overwhelming your enemies  ;)

I love X-Rats too!

Could post some pictures for ufopedia entries or dossiers, but I´m really not good at downsampling image size and color palette to make it fit. :/

If you have good pics, you can submit them raw, I don't mind doing the conversion when it's worth it.

(Also thats why i kinda dislike the animal missions with rats. Weird enough the enemy dogs don't really bother me. I´m a monster...  :'( )

You can think about these missions as animal relief: these rats are after all, sick. You can catch them alive, cure them, and enlist them!
:)

Maybe as attack animation jumping to half body height would be fitting, since they actually do that. Also its weird that you just got killed by a rat biting your shoe...

There are no melee animations in X-Com.
Honestly, it's like complaining that people can't get into prone position. :D

One thing that will need to be updated are mods that were formerly compatible with XCF. For some reason the awesome Metal Gear Solid name generator no longer works, nor does the Recruitment Office staff. Or the Huey helicopter one.

Shame, especially the MGS one, which worked until now. Could this be related to not using the latest version of OXCE?

I can't think of any reason these wouldn't work, though I don't use them myself, so who knows.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: LytaRyta on November 04, 2019, 08:25:07 pm
Oh yeah rat armor needs to happen XD
Or alloy teeth.
Rat power armor  ;D
With mounted laser  ;D ;D
Perhaps flying would be a bit much though.
(There´s just been a study where they taught rats to drive small electric cars...)

I have 4 pet rats and they´re always scurrying around, very fast and very trainable animals...
And you do *NOT* want to get bit, if they´re serious about it.
Perfect for a fast ambush or just mass overwhelming your enemies  ;)
Could post some pictures for ufopedia entries or dossiers, but I´m really not good at downsampling image size and color palette to make it fit. :/
(Also thats why i kinda dislike the animal missions with rats. Weird enough the enemy dogs don't really bother me. I´m a monster...  :'( )

Maybe as attack animation jumping to half body height would be fitting, since they actually do that. Also its weird that you just got killed by a rat biting your shoe...

haha :D lôl

here you go! :

https://www.idnes.cz/technet/veda/potkani-krysy-mysi-ridi.A191023_153010_veda_mla
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: misterx on November 04, 2019, 09:40:41 pm
Is the 1.00 final or some other relases are expected?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 04, 2019, 11:09:04 pm
Is the 1.00 final or some other relases are expected?
more stuff will come.

omg i just had first mission after commendations. it seems they´re all counted for retroactively...
so basically anyone on that mission got 7th to 10th award on "Lucky". lol...
commendations are awesome though  ;D
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: LytaRyta on November 04, 2019, 11:44:04 pm
i´m just catching such big green frog :D :p lôl

can,could she be stunned too ?   (i wouldn´t want to shoot, kill her yet)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 05, 2019, 02:29:01 pm
yes they can be stunned. they seem to have much HP though.

You can think about these missions as animal relief: these rats are after all, sick. You can catch them alive, cure them, and enlist them!
:)
That does give me an idea...
How about to give an incentive to get the animals alive?
E.g. council scientists would want to have them as samples or such... (Which comes with a higher selling price and more score for stun than kill)
Of course civilian safety must be more important, so you´d still kill to save a civilian, but not if you could avoid it.
Like with the farmers on the crop circle missions...
Its a little more challenging this way.
Or rightout insane, if you´re trying to do that with chupas...  ;D

I see no reason to apply this to zombies though.  :P
(not sure if its practically possible to get horrors alive, without launchers...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 05, 2019, 03:33:57 pm
yes they can be stunned. they seem to have much HP though.
That does give me an idea...
How about to give an incentive to get the animals alive?
E.g. council scientists would want to have them as samples or such... (Which comes with a higher selling price and more score for stun than kill)
Of course civilian safety must be more important, so you´d still kill to save a civilian, but not if you could avoid it.
Like with the farmers on the crop circle missions...
Its a little more challenging this way.
Or rightout insane, if you´re trying to do that with chupas...  ;D

I see no reason to apply this to zombies though.  :P
(not sure if its practically possible to get horrors alive, without launchers...)

These monsters are hazardous mutants, not a pinky pony. Where do you think The Council will take it? To the school on the biology classes? :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 05, 2019, 04:17:39 pm
These monsters are hazardous mutants, not a pinky pony. Where do you think The Council will take it? To the school on the biology classes? :D
Maybe they sell them to burger king, cheap source of meat... ;)
Well I´d want to research them and find out if they mutate more over time or get more dangerous...
Or what makes them mutate. Or why they occurred where they occurred...
Or Jeff Goldblum is on the council and makes a theme park for them. Nothing could go wrong there...  ;D
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: LytaRyta on November 05, 2019, 09:57:58 pm
^^Michael Crighton would be surely quite excited, surprised, & very like´d with thats X-Com mods, such thriller´ish, and techno-dramatic!



..and Those "Catching Creatures" missions just remind me abit Witcher, (novel & game serie), too alike
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: karnaugh_map on November 06, 2019, 07:00:01 am
Congrats on V1!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: LytaRyta on November 06, 2019, 07:39:04 am
what is "readiness?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Anon011 on November 06, 2019, 08:32:50 am
Congratulation on releasing 1.0, played this mod since 0.7 and its amazing how much it grew. Keep on being awesome Solarius.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Fiskun1 on November 06, 2019, 10:32:58 am
Hooray, finally it happened! )
But still I really hope for further improvements, as the author of the mod promised.
Thank!
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 06, 2019, 06:58:08 pm
what is "readiness?

IIRC there was supposed to be an article explaining it, but it isn't, while it does so in Piratez. A mistake, I suppose.

Either way, it's basically fatigue. As it gets lower and lower, your units will regenerate less energy and TU until they cannot move at all. It is spent while fighting in a mission, especially by using PSI stuff, and it refreshes at the base by resting here, thus encouraging you to have more teams ready to rotate.

By the way, it seems one-use portable anti-tank launchers is not a thing in XCF yet, shame. Hopefully it is updated in soon, these things would make perfect sense to have at Prom. 3 or so.

Another thing: Is the Osiron "arc" finished by now? Is something else planned to do with them besides being random thugs with hi-tech with connections to a sinister organization?

I hoped to eventually have a way to dismantle these guys' base of operations as you do with the starter cults, but I dunno if it's possible by now.
Note that I'm talking from experience with previous releases where I didn't manage to finish the game yet, so perhaps this idea is already implemented.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 06, 2019, 07:14:00 pm
Another thing: Is the Osiron "arc" finished by now? Is something else planned to do with them besides being random thugs with hi-tech with connections to a sinister organization?
I hoped to eventually have a way to dismantle these guys' base of operations as you do with the starter cults, but I dunno if it's possible by now.
Note that I'm talking from experience with previous releases where I didn't manage to finish the game yet, so perhaps this idea is already implemented.

Some arcs are better not to be closed that way. We need to have some easy missions like hybrids or Osiron in case of training noobies during all campaign. It was important in 0.x.x versions, but now in 1.0 it is vitally important.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 07, 2019, 10:55:52 am
well there´s animals for that.
and I´m not sure if training times got reduced or its due commendations (probably the first), because suddenly kinda everybody finished training and i´m just sitting on ~100 fully trained noobies...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 07, 2019, 11:20:09 am
well there´s animals for that.

...and animals, yes. And anything you can find. You can even leave in action 3 of 4 cults. Should I continue?  ???

and I´m not sure if training times got reduced or its due commendations (probably the first), because suddenly kinda everybody finished training and i´m just sitting on ~100 fully trained noobies...

So try it by yourself and be sure. ;) 'Kinda everybody' will sit with shitty 70 accuracy, 50 reaction and 60 TUs. On a beginner difficulty it's toooooo much, yes. Cydonia will fall before 1999, he-he.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on November 07, 2019, 06:54:30 pm
and I´m not sure if training times got reduced or its due commendations (probably the first), because suddenly kinda everybody finished training and i´m just sitting on ~100 fully trained noobies...

Neither. Training rate didn't change, what changed was scorch reducing gym caps. Quite severely so. Besides a couple secondary stats like strength, gym now only trains up to hire caps, not beyond them as it was the case previously and which took the bulk of time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 07, 2019, 07:03:52 pm
omg
so now they´re totally gonna suck even when they´re fully trained?
...why?
is it even worth anymore having some gyms then?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: LytaRyta on November 07, 2019, 07:05:45 pm
^^  couldnt´t be possible train them again beyond the stats´caps ?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Cynus_X on November 07, 2019, 08:00:36 pm
Either way, it's basically fatigue. As it gets lower and lower, your units will regenerate less energy and TU until they cannot move at all. It is spent while fighting in a mission, especially by using PSI stuff, and it refreshes at the base by resting here, thus encouraging you to have more teams ready to rotate.

So, do your soldiers have enough readiness to finish a big mission like a Cult HQ assault on superhuman? Where you have to kill about a hundred enemies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 07, 2019, 08:07:14 pm
omg
so now they´re totally gonna suck even when they´re fully trained?
...why?
is it even worth anymore having some gyms then?

You need to push your soldiers to almost every mission for a few drops of experience and some commendations. The whole training is more difficult than it was at 0.9.9. Just try 1.0 by yourself, and you'll know....
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 07, 2019, 08:39:10 pm
You need to push your soldiers to almost every mission for a few drops of experience and some commendations. The whole training is more difficult than it was at 0.9.9. Just try 1.0 by yourself, and you'll know....
currently at a campaign started in 0.99...
well that kinda sucks then. its sooo much effort to get proper replacements already...
like, why does it have to be so much work to get proper soldiers, when you can build UFOs and mechs and other stuff already?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 07, 2019, 08:40:33 pm
ehh..  all thats limitations..

and restriction,
rules (not only) in games are becoming more, and more ..strict (harsch)

for what?   
and for WHOm? ?

*deleted by mod*

i got such nerves already, from all of this, and such.. ://
:( :/(

What weed do you smoke, fella?  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 07, 2019, 08:46:19 pm
currently at a campaign started in 0.99...
well that kinda sucks then. its sooo much effort to get proper replacements already...
like, why does it have to be so much work to get proper soldiers, when you can build UFOs and mechs and other stuff already?

I wouldnt recommend to continue 0.9.9 save with 1.0. To get the full experience of renewed mechanics you should start a new game. Otherwise many features could be simply missed.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: LytaRyta on November 07, 2019, 08:51:48 pm
^^ nesca, coffe 8) :p
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 07, 2019, 08:57:36 pm
^^ nesca, coffe 8) :p

Are you shure about it? Check the label. Maybe it is already expired last decade? ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 07, 2019, 11:02:41 pm
You need to push your soldiers to almost every mission for a few drops of experience and some commendations. The whole training is more difficult than it was at 0.9.9. Just try 1.0 by yourself, and you'll know....

Drat, that sucks. I hope this doesn't mean hunting down animals like you were a pest exterminator from earlier versions is now even more necessary to do. That was quite boring and you'll have to go through hundreds of battles to win the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Arcalane on November 08, 2019, 02:13:20 am
omg
so now they´re totally gonna suck even when they´re fully trained?
...why?
is it even worth anymore having some gyms then?

If you actually PAID ATTENTION TO THE UPDATE NOTES you'd notice that Sol has introduced new/additional advancement mechanics; there are "enhancement treatments" available (stuff like ninja scrolls, lo wo's secrets, maybe storm and others) that increase soldier stats.

Basically, the idea as I understand is that your soldiers start out less capable and can't train as high via the gym, but you gain additional ways of improving their stats as the game progresses. Your dudes won't be crazy superhumans within the first two months just from grinding zombies, rats, and spiders like you're playing some early-gen MMO. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 08, 2019, 06:16:09 am
I hope this doesn't mean hunting down animals like you were a pest exterminator from earlier versions is now even more necessary to do.

Well, I'm not pretend for the role of ultimate player, but have some exp and skill. Look at the pictures.
Today is June of 1998.

The fist is my best soldier: full trained at gym, he has a lot of different commendations and the first bio-enhancement (ninja scrolls are still unavailable, because they was cutted from the mission with Lo Wo), he is with me from the beginning of the campaign - honored veteran. As you can see, the main trouble is with accuracy and reaction training. In 0.9.9 versions I'd have 10-15 full-trained soldiers with maxed accuracy and reactions by the same date, but here he is the only one. There are also several good soldiers, but they are a bit worse.

On the second picture is the other soldier with one silly commendation, with a couple missions behind and full trained at gym. Looks promising, isn't it?  :) In 0.9.9 we can get full-gym-trained soldiers with average stats, but now... *Meh*

As you understand, grinding became even more important than it ever be. Fatigue makes grinding (and the whole missions) more dangerous, because you need to act more aggressive. Such tactics often leads to disastrous results - more stupid deaths from freaky grenades, for example. :-\ I plan not to complete Red Dawn arc and Monsters arc - with hybrids these measures will supply enough of 'meat' for my troops, I hope.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 08, 2019, 11:54:11 am
Grinding it is then. I suppose I'll wait for the next version being uploaded to fix minor bugs and add new stuff such as these launchers, before giving this a third (or was it 4th?) run. I suppose it's recommended to play this game in short bursts and/or alternate with other stuff, to avoid fatigue from doing boring combat non-stop, especially during the early game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 08, 2019, 12:37:16 pm
If you actually PAID ATTENTION TO THE UPDATE NOTES you'd notice that Sol has introduced new/additional advancement mechanics; there are "enhancement treatments" available (stuff like ninja scrolls, lo wo's secrets, maybe storm and others) that increase soldier stats.

Basically, the idea as I understand is that your soldiers start out less capable and can't train as high via the gym, but you gain additional ways of improving their stats as the game progresses. Your dudes won't be crazy superhumans within the first two months just from grinding zombies, rats, and spiders like you're playing some early-gen MMO. :P
I´ve see the new enchancements. There´s many and now instead of training you just pay to improve your soldier.
The downside however, i found nowhere the requirements for most of those enchancements.
E.g. 1 training for martial arts yet. Dunno why just one soldier or why exactly that one...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Toothless Shark on November 08, 2019, 07:11:57 pm
Solarius, congras on 1.0 release. You did hell of a job on this mod. It went a long way from FMP you made first.
Great work  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 08, 2019, 10:43:29 pm
where to get gauss clips actually?
i have all the weapons researched, but no clips...
and need a clip to research it.
oh that sounds familiar...  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 09, 2019, 06:42:45 am
where to get gauss clips actually?
i have all the weapons researched, but no clips...
and need a clip to research it.
oh that sounds familiar...  ;D

You can obtain clips from reptoids. Go to underground...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 09, 2019, 08:12:29 pm
Thanks.
Where to get aqua plastics then?  ;D
Have some, but no idea where from.
And no mission in the last few months got me any more...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 09, 2019, 08:29:30 pm
Thanks.
Where to get aqua plastics then?  ;D
Have some, but no idea where from.
And no mission in the last few months got me any more...

As you can guess from its name, aqua plastic can be taken from underwater missions  :) Osiron containers also xan drop a few pieces.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 09, 2019, 08:30:55 pm
I guessed that much  ;)
But probably had no luck there yet.
Ah thats where i got it from then, Osiron...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 10, 2019, 02:24:59 am
A lot of my guys have no psi skill displayed. (But psi strength)
Does that mean its 0, or am i missing something...?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 10, 2019, 04:59:03 am
A lot of my guys have no psi skill displayed. (But psi strength)
Does that mean its 0, or am i missing something...?

Yes. Initially, it is 0. Haven't you researched psionocs yet? You should train them at psi-lab to increase it. Or the is another way to unlock psk: do several attacs with psiclone X-Com. After that you can train psk by anything: staves, gloves and roses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 10, 2019, 05:53:41 am
yes i have psionics.
was just wondering why it doesn't just display 0, instead of not having any psi skill entry in stats at all...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: misterx on November 10, 2019, 03:32:32 pm
I noticed there are still present some vanilla tracks and even some from xpiratez; may i suggest to discard these in irder to have all brand new soundtracks?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 10, 2019, 07:56:00 pm
gotta say so, after a few days... 1.0 seems a lot better than 0.99  ;D
(and not that 0.99 was bad, just 1.0 is noticably better)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Dr.Crowley on November 11, 2019, 10:08:08 am
Wow, finally it happened. Cheers, Sol :)
I cannot try XCF right now but I am looking forward.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2019, 12:55:52 pm
Grinding it is then. I suppose I'll wait for the next version being uploaded to fix minor bugs and add new stuff such as these launchers, before giving this a third (or was it 4th?) run. I suppose it's recommended to play this game in short bursts and/or alternate with other stuff, to avoid fatigue from doing boring combat non-stop, especially during the early game.

I agree. But... what launchers??? I don't know about any launchers to be added. :o

A lot of my guys have no psi skill displayed. (But psi strength)
Does that mean its 0, or am i missing something...?

You probably got some commendation which increased your Psi Strength a little.

I noticed there are still present some vanilla tracks and even some from xpiratez; may i suggest to discard these in irder to have all brand new soundtracks?

Change what in favour of what, and for what reason?

Also no, I haven't taken any music for Piratez. Why would you say so?

...and now, the bugfix release :D Version 1.0.1 has been released.

- New item: Golden Dragons, Nobelon.
- Warp Cannon damage increased.
- BlackOps and UAC logos added (by Arvidus).
- Fixed a crash on slander missions popping up.
- Fixed a crash on The Special Client mission popping up.
- Fixed the Bio-Drone weapon entry.
- Fixed the Moon hills.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 11, 2019, 01:50:07 pm
To ver. 1.0. Don't know, is it bug or...
In the mission of rescuing David Vincent make sure his diskette lie on the ground or grabbed by your soldier. Otherwise, it will not be looted by the end of the mission. If D.V. survives, of course.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2019, 04:38:57 pm
To ver. 1.0. Don't know, is it bug or...
In the mission of rescuing David Vincent make sure his diskette lie on the ground or grabbed by your soldier. Otherwise, it will not be looted by the end of the mission. If D.V. survives, of course.  :)

Eh? It should recover like anything else. There is literally no reason for the floppy to be recovered from some positions but not others.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 11, 2019, 05:13:09 pm
Lol, that was fast, I haven't started the game yet and there's already a new patch, with bugfixes and adding... Drugs. Okay?

I agree. But... what launchers??? I don't know about any launchers to be added. :o


The disposable rocket launchers I mentioned several pages ago. Piratez has them and there's a random mod here that also allows them. It would be fitting for Xcom to have at Promotion lvl 3, now that Mortars are finally in.

http://openxcommods.weebly.com/downloads11.html

They should be available to human enemies to enable some nasty surprises during the early phases of the campaign.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 11, 2019, 06:11:55 pm
Eh? It should recover like anything else. There is literally no reason for the floppy to be recovered from some positions but not others.

No. I can assure you - floppy wasn't at the list of loot from mission's report. There was nothing at the warehouse either. I was very surprised and replayed the last turn of mission with dispatching floppy from his inventory to the floor. For this time floppy was looted.
Maybe it was a single case and it is usually fine, I don't know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 11, 2019, 09:26:13 pm
Lol, that was fast, I haven't started the game yet and there's already a new patch, with bugfixes and adding... Drugs. Okay?

Well, there were several critical bugs, so I had no choice.

The disposable rocket launchers I mentioned several pages ago. Piratez has them and there's a random mod here that also allows them. It would be fitting for Xcom to have at Promotion lvl 3, now that Mortars are finally in.

But what for, since we already have several rocket launchers? What would be the new thing?

No. I can assure you - floppy wasn't at the list of loot from mission's report. There was nothing at the warehouse either. I was very surprised and replayed the last turn of mission with dispatching floppy from his inventory to the floor. For this time floppy was looted.
Maybe it was a single case and it is usually fine, I don't know.

Perhaps the floppy was destroyed with some explosion?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 12, 2019, 12:14:32 am
Well, there were several critical bugs, so I had no choice.

Well yeah, that's a good reason, but you worked extra to provide new content, which is nice. What now? More arc work? Which arc will you finish next?


But what for, since we already have several rocket launchers? What would be the new thing?

Well, disposable rocket launchers are a thing IRL. If X-Com has access to rocket launchers, mortars and explosives, one-use rocket launchers that are not as bulky as the bazooka model makes perfect sense to have. You can even get access to a rapid-fire RPG of sorts, so this thing shouldn't be too far-fetched to have IMO.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 12, 2019, 05:44:07 am
Perhaps the floppy was destroyed with some explosion?

No. I know what I'm talking about. There were no explosions, earthquakes, volcanoes and black holes. :D
DV was at his lab during all the mission.
 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 12, 2019, 08:42:48 pm
Well yeah, that's a good reason, but you worked extra to provide new content, which is nice. What now? More arc work? Which arc will you finish next?

I don't want to make any statements yet, except that I will continue working on the mod. But I think the leading candidates for development right now are Cult of Apocalypse and Reptoids.

Well, disposable rocket launchers are a thing IRL. If X-Com has access to rocket launchers, mortars and explosives, one-use rocket launchers that are not as bulky as the bazooka model makes perfect sense to have. You can even get access to a rapid-fire RPG of sorts, so this thing shouldn't be too far-fetched to have IMO.

I never said it wouldn't be believable, I just don't know why exactly we need another launcher when we already have 5 human launchers, with a selection of ammo types. I can add something, but first I need to understand the need.

No. I know what I'm talking about. There were no explosions, earthquakes, volcanoes and black holes. :D
DV was at his lab during all the mission.

Sorry, I don't know what to tell you without a save. There must have been something special about that situation, because after a won battle all the items are always recovered (unless they're non-recoverable).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: metaltooth on November 12, 2019, 11:06:24 pm
Am I supposed to be able to intercept alien UFO landings by month 2?

I found a landed terror ship in my second month and got completely overpowered by the sectoids that crewed it
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 13, 2019, 12:09:57 am
I don't want to make any statements yet, except that I will continue working on the mod. But I think the leading candidates for development right now are Cult of Apocalypse and Reptoids.

Good to know. I hope we get a BFG knock-off.

I never said it wouldn't be believable, I just don't know why exactly we need another launcher when we already have 5 human launchers, with a selection of ammo types. I can add something, but first I need to understand the need.

Well, the idea was to have a single-use rocket launcher that was light enough to be used by most soldiers, but I suppose the humble RPG launcher can do this on a pinch.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 13, 2019, 01:11:08 am
question: what are the chances a battleship has no elerium on it?
they do have all those big red tanks there for a reason...
shouldn't it have like... a ****ton? unless they landed because out of fuel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2019, 06:40:38 pm
Am I supposed to be able to intercept alien UFO landings by month 2?

No, you're not supposed to do that. But you can give it a try - it's up to you. Consider it a hardcore bonus level.

I found a landed terror ship in my second month and got completely overpowered by the sectoids that crewed it

Certainly not a Terror Ship, or I'm going slightly mad here...

Good to know. I hope we get a BFG knock-off.

When I get to that, sure! :)

Well, the idea was to have a single-use rocket launcher that was light enough to be used by most soldiers, but I suppose the humble RPG launcher can do this on a pinch.

Yeah, I think the balance is fine. I could add something in the future, like a faction specific weapon.

question: what are the chances a battleship has no elerium on it?
they do have all those big red tanks there for a reason...
shouldn't it have like... a ****ton? unless they landed because out of fuel.

It should... would you happen to have a save during the battlescape?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 13, 2019, 07:32:19 pm
It should... would you happen to have a save during the battlescape?

i just might...  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 14, 2019, 12:14:55 am
i just might...  :P

Thanks - problem identified and eliminated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Mr. Mister on November 14, 2019, 01:26:01 pm
Both on Begginer and Experienced, all Culth Apprehension missions feature only a single enemy, right?

I was thinking that maybe you could boost that number a little bit, since single-target missions are more boring than they are easy, as you know never to expect any surprise, and honestly give too different portrayals of cult cell squads between difficulties (single-man subcells at Experienced and below and 2-5 man subcells above).

I don't remember the numbers for Veteran, but assuming they are 2-4, maybe you could up the begginer number to 1-2 or 1-3 and the Experienced one to 1-3 or 2-3? Still pretty easy, but it gives space for surprises.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 14, 2019, 02:12:56 pm
Both on Begginer and Experienced, all Culth Apprehension missions feature only a single enemy, right?

I was thinking that maybe you could boost that number a little bit, since single-target missions are more boring than they are easy, as you know never to expect any surprise, and honestly give too different portrayals of cult cell squads between difficulties (single-man subcells at Experienced and below and 2-5 man subcells above).

I don't remember the numbers for  , but assuming they are 2-4, maybe you could up the begginer number to 1-2 or 1-3 and the Experienced one to 1-3 or 2-3? Still pretty easy, but it gives space for surprises.

Do you want some real fun? Enjoy 'superhuman'! 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Mr. Mister on November 14, 2019, 06:52:56 pm
Small suggestion: I assume that the random event where you are convinced of spending 100k in renovating headquarters for 25 points only triggers when your current money is above a certain treshold (it better), so I recommend the event's description includes somewhere the sentence "Since we had so much money sitting around" or something so the player knows that's a trigger condition.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 15, 2019, 02:36:46 pm
Do you want some real fun? Enjoy 'superhuman'! 8)

Or use 1 unarmed agent. It's fun!

Anyway, I am not making harder a mission which exists solely to make an easier start. (People begged me for it.)

Small suggestion: I assume that the random event where you are convinced of spending 100k in renovating headquarters for 25 points only triggers when your current money is above a certain treshold (it better), so I recommend the event's description includes somewhere the sentence "Since we had so much money sitting around" or something so the player knows that's a trigger condition.

Why? Isn't it so obvious that any clarifications would be downright insulting?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: Ciruil on November 15, 2019, 05:49:27 pm
No, you're not supposed to do that. But you can give it a try - it's up to you. Consider it a hardcore bonus level.
Also successfull try hightly rewarded:
1. Kill at least 1 alien and ride away thith corpse (dont try to captule alien alive - its useles, you has no alien isolator). Research corpse. Research and build alien isolator. In second alien landing try to  capture and kidnap any alien. Its allows you reseach and build wery nice transport - SKYRAIDER. Unlike DRAGONFLY and OSPREY: it can reach whole map, much grudeli 2 times faster, has magnificent side doors near cabin alloving to safely shooting from transport inside.
2. If you  kill all aliens you got alien alloys. Its allows to research and produce wery strong againist early game cults tritanium armor, pretty powerful tritanium bullets, wery strong in melle tritanium knifes and swords

Anyone know what research triggerrs jarheads terror mission or its fully depends from random?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 16, 2019, 04:28:26 am
is it intended that alien drones can pick up weapons from the ground?
i doub't that thing spawned with a laser and a low tech pistol too...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 16, 2019, 07:05:25 am
is it intended that alien drones can pick up weapons from the ground?
i doub't that thing spawned with a laser and a low tech pistol too...

They spawned, yes. Also, when you'll fight with heavy squad of MiB, check their sectopod - it walks around with BO auto sniper rifle. But still shoots with laser beam.  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 16, 2019, 12:26:59 pm
...Why do they spawn with weapons, though? They have "allowInv: false"...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: Meridian on November 16, 2019, 01:40:58 pm
...Why do they spawn with weapons, though? They have "allowInv: false"...

"allowInv" only says if you can access inventory as a player... nothing else
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 16, 2019, 02:40:38 pm
"allowInv" only says if you can access inventory as a player... nothing else

Then is there a way to prevent using itemSets?

For example certain alien races have terror units who are actually normal units (using gear), so they need defined weapons in the Alien Terror deployment. But then all 1x1 terror units (like the Holodrone or the Chryssalid) would get them too...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 17, 2019, 05:37:55 am
As you can guess from its name, aqua plastic can be taken from underwater missions  :) Osiron containers also xan drop a few pieces.
yield rate seems to be extremely low though.
both the missions and osiron crates appear not that often and the plastics amount is just traces...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 17, 2019, 07:03:36 am
yield rate seems to be extremely low though.
both the missions and osiron crates appear not that often and the plastics amount is just traces...

Hmm... Osiron - yes, but underwater missions spawn regularly. Have you researched their communicator?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 17, 2019, 10:47:08 am
Version 1.0.2 has been released.

- New Alien Base, Farm, Forest and City mapblocks (by Civilian).
- Lurking Cybermites are now invisible on the minimap.
- New FN FAL handob (by Civilian).
- Lowered the Melee requirement for Martial Arts to 65.
- Fixed a crash on Marine Base Defense mission popping up.
- Fixed the Night Owl commendation.
- Fixed energy regeneration on Heavy Suit (both variants).
- Fixed Psi-Amp handob.
- Fixed one Battleship map.
- Minor terrain fixes.

It's another bugfix release, so it's still on 1.0.X. I had to release it because of a critical bug on the Marine Base Defense mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 17, 2019, 11:53:35 pm
are cyberweb lairs supposed to exist after cyberweb was taken care of?
kinda surprised to see one.
then again, it is talking about a rogue scientist...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 18, 2019, 07:54:21 am
did something change about the psi evaluation?
i don't believe i just bought 50 soldiers (+ 50 hybrids) and none of them have any psi skills...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 18, 2019, 09:29:11 am
did something change about the psi evaluation?
i don't believe i just bought 50 soldiers (+ 50 hybrids) and none of them have any psi skills...

As always, psi-skill need to be unlocked for the further training by using psi-device or during psi-training at psi-lab. There are no changes in this mechanics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 18, 2019, 09:42:28 am
hm. then it seems i had a lot more labs at some point. o_O
damn thats gotta take ages.
thought once you researched it all psi skills are revealed. might have remembered wrong.

another thing though, where would i find a "men in black"-item?
(razed several bases, UFOs, etc)


EDIT: oh and where to find alien keys... i had one, used it, but no clue where to get new ones...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 18, 2019, 11:16:22 am
another thing though, where would i find a "men in black"-item?
(razed several bases, UFOs, etc)

It is not an item. It is hostile faction with its units and missions. Strange, that you still haven't met them... Their first encounter is on missions with farmers. Once you'll interrogate their agent, it will open the other missions with MIB.

EDIT: oh and where to find alien keys... i had one, used it, but no clue where to get new ones...

You should hunt for supply ship, which usually fly to the alien embassies. The leader of such ship carry the key. Not on every ship, though, but only there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 18, 2019, 12:26:17 pm
It is not an item. It is hostile faction with its units and missions. Strange, that you still haven't met them... Their first encounter is on missions with farmers. Once you'll interrogate their agent, it will open the other missions with MIB.
Ye i know the faction. had a lot of missions, destroyed some of their bases and UFOs. but never could research "Men in Black". (even though i researched their commanders/scientists/ops/etc all).
Looked in the research tree, it says "item destroyed: Men in Black". Which pretty sure kinda means there´s gotta be an item with that name...

You should hunt for supply ship, which usually fly to the alien embassies. The leader of such ship carry the key. Not on every ship, though, but only there.
oh, that makes sense. thx
never would have figured that one out... -_-
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 18, 2019, 01:01:29 pm
Looked in the research tree, it says "item destroyed: Men in Black". Which pretty sure kinda means there´s gotta be an item with that name...

Hmm... I've never met such a thing over many missions. To gain access to 'Men in Black' research you should interrogate their commander first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on November 18, 2019, 02:17:43 pm
did. all of them actually, no research left from any MiB personel, except heavy trooper.
Hm maybe its because i´ve started this as 0.99?
but the research tree clearly says item...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 18, 2019, 03:05:25 pm
did. all of them actually, no research left from any MiB personel, except heavy trooper.
Hm maybe its because i´ve started this as 0.99?
but the research tree clearly says item...

Strange... I don't what say then. :-\ Maybe there are some changes in 1.0... I've not done this yet in my current campaign.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day
Post by: Arcalane on November 18, 2019, 07:52:17 pm
hm. then it seems i had a lot more labs at some point. o_O
damn thats gotta take ages.
thought once you researched it all psi skills are revealed. might have remembered wrong.

Psi strength is revealed. Psi skill always starts at 0 and must be improved by using a psi lab/gym and psi weapons/items.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 19, 2019, 12:44:12 pm
I started a new campaign, I forgot how tough the early game is: One of my starting agents was mauled to death by angry gorillas, after another rookie wounded the first one with a misplaced shotgun shot. Good times.

Is there a way to list soldiers by commendation/s? Are there plans to do that? Lastly: Can commendations make a soldier go above their natural limit? Do these stat upgrades count for said limit (as in, if you were to get another medal that gives you stat bonuses, you get nothing if you maxed out said stat)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 19, 2019, 01:01:20 pm
Is there a way to list soldiers by commendation/s?

Currently not, but commendation bonuses also counts while you sorting by other stats.

Lastly: Can commendations make a soldier go above their natural limit? Do these stat upgrades count for said limit (as in, if you were to get another medal that gives you stat bonuses, you get nothing if you maxed out said stat)?

Of course! Look here http://prntscr.com/pz06qt - the most commended soldier. All bonuses stacked from different commendations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Mathel on November 19, 2019, 04:07:21 pm
They however can not drop them below 0. Tried that by getting a soldier with 10 Bravery and giving her 3 levels of Betrayer. She was still on 0 Bravery, not -10.
And I know that is not a bug, I that thought I'd share it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 19, 2019, 04:26:15 pm
Thanks for the answers! Not sure if it's a bug or a minor quirk, but I wish to share it anyway: Sometimes, when I'm in the Geoscape too long (ie: Checking 'paedia articles, making lists of stuff to go for my vehicles and so on), the currently playing song gets partially "stuck", repeating a part of it while the rest of the song keeps going. Changing the music track fixes it. I dunno if it happens in Battlescape as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on November 20, 2019, 05:54:20 am
Thanks for the answers! Not sure if it's a bug or a minor quirk, but I wish to share it anyway: Sometimes, when I'm in the Geoscape too long (ie: Checking 'paedia articles, making lists of stuff to go for my vehicles and so on), the currently playing song gets partially "stuck", repeating a part of it while the rest of the song keeps going. Changing the music track fixes it. I dunno if it happens in Battlescape as well.

I think I know what you mean. I have the same problem, not just with this mod, but vanilla too. A single note getting "stuck" forever. IIRC it has always been this way for me. Only the original midi tracks are affected. I guess something wrong with the emulation? I sometimes get similar sound glitches with dosbox. It gets really annoying after a while, even painful with headphones.

I ended up replacing the original geoscape tracks with mp3 tracks. Problem solved.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Rich on November 22, 2019, 01:02:21 am
For some reason, i can't see the XcomFiles mod, i can see the DarkGeoscape however.
Working fine on Android but not on windows with the 64bit

Am i missing something?

Edit:
For anyone having my same issue: do a clean install, delete old openxcom and the openxcom folder in user folder, this fixed it for some reason
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: robin on November 22, 2019, 11:35:26 pm
I think the XCOM_PSICLONE *might* not work.
I copy-pasted it in my mod (besides the sprites) and in Quick Battle mode it doesn't do anything at all. It could be some bullshit in my mod causing it though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0: Judgement Day
Post by: The Martian on November 23, 2019, 03:01:19 am
OK, this is the day. After four years of modding, version 1.0 has been released.

It's a little belated but I just want to say: Congratulations on releasing V1.0 of The X-Com Files! (https://openxcom.org/forum/Themes/InsidiousV1-k/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 23, 2019, 01:03:52 pm
I think the XCOM_PSICLONE *might* not work.
I copy-pasted it in my mod (besides the sprites) and in Quick Battle mode it doesn't do anything at all. It could be some bullshit in my mod causing it though.

All I can say is that it works for me. I get the "Morale attack successful" message as normal.

It's a little belated but I just want to say: Congratulations on releasing V1.0 of The X-Com Files! (https://openxcom.org/forum/Themes/InsidiousV1-k/images/post/thumbup.gif)

You're very welcome!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: new_civilian on November 26, 2019, 11:42:51 am
Just have to say that I love those new terrains (NewRuralUrban and the new Farm). Good work! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 26, 2019, 06:31:42 pm
Just have to say that I love those new terrains (NewRuralUrban and the new Farm). Good work! :)

Glad to hear! :) We made it with Dioxine.

Now for the pressing matter. Hobbes has forbidden usage of his terrain resources in any other mod, so I've temporarily removed X-Com Files from the portal until I remove all the content. Don't panic; this is not a big deal. It will take a while, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on November 26, 2019, 07:59:55 pm
Well then, I've been playing this for a while, so I would like to voice my thoughts.
First, I must state I used let's say "external help" to speed up my playthrough, because that's like the 5th time I start the game, and I wanted to get over the boring start ASAP. So far I haven't noticed most changes with the Readiness system, other than punishing you for taking too long to finish a mission. AIs and Doges are practically unnaffected, so you can still play it safe around these auxiliary units.

However, there's one thing that while it is not a bug, I think it needs more polish:

The transformations. Right now I unlocked the X-Com Bio-Enhancement, but it says that it requires a Med-Bay. Unfortunately, there's no such building in-game. Rather, it was referring to the Sick Bay instead. I think the article should be edited to reflect that.
Second issue: Said Sickbay requires you to unlock Healing Gel in order to build it. Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I swear that building didn't have such requirement before. That means the scientist lady who explains the procedure knows about a building you may not have around by the time you unlock the upgrade.
Perhaps you should lock that research topic behind the Sickbay building? It would make perfect sense that you first have to research and build specialized medical facilities in order to know how to use them to improve your troops.

Lastly, the transformation should state somewhere ingame which are the minimal stats in order to use it.  It says what it improves, but nothing about the stat requirements to use it.

That's all. The rest is still fun. Now, if only I could have my troops training at the Gym train faster...



Now for the pressing matter. Hobbes has forbidden usage of his terrain resources in any other mod, so I've temporarily removed X-Com Files from the portal until I remove all the content. Don't panic; this is not a big deal. It will take a while, though.

Oh my, is there some "modder drama" going on behind the scenes?

EDIT: Nevermind, it seems so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: nailo1 on November 26, 2019, 09:15:40 pm
The link to download this is hidden on openxcom. Is there any where else to get this mod?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Mathel on November 26, 2019, 10:26:27 pm
The link to download this is hidden on openxcom. Is there any where else to get this mod?

The reason why it is hidden is just 2 posts before yours. I assume there will be a new version of X-Com Files soon, without the Hobbes terrain resources.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 27, 2019, 02:00:47 am
The transformations. Right now I unlocked the X-Com Bio-Enhancement, but it says that it requires a Med-Bay. Unfortunately, there's no such building in-game. Rather, it was referring to the Sick Bay instead. I think the article should be edited to reflect that.

You're totally right about the name. Fixed.

Perhaps you should lock that research topic behind the Sickbay building? It would make perfect sense that you first have to research and build specialized medical facilities in order to know how to use them to improve your troops.

Sounds reasonable. Done!

Lastly, the transformation should state somewhere ingame which are the minimal stats in order to use it.  It says what it improves, but nothing about the stat requirements to use it.

Hmm, I can try fitting these into the description. But I think it would be worthwhile to think of a more general approach, if needed - like a GUI or something.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 27, 2019, 06:09:37 am
Glad to see that someone else talking about it. 

Hmm, I can try fitting these into the description. But I think it would be worthwhile to think of a more general approach, if needed - like a GUI or something.

Nothing special, just put an additional article into ufopaedia, where are all stat requirements are described for each upgrade. :)

UPD: OR it would be better to make a special directory in ufoapedia "Soldier transformations" or something like that and put there articles about them by process or their study.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Fiskun1 on November 27, 2019, 09:59:46 am
X-Man:
Very correct and fair comments. This is the rare case when you can agree with all points.
Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on November 27, 2019, 12:06:49 pm
X-Man:
Very correct and fair comments. This is the rare case when you can agree with all points.
Thanks!

Thanks to you, but I'm not sure which of my comments do you mean. :) 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on December 01, 2019, 05:53:16 pm
what does helix knight do?
got 1 soldier to train it, but didn't display any stat changes...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: HT on December 02, 2019, 04:40:08 pm
After playing this a little more, I think the "Cool Gadget" research topic needs a bit of a tweaking.

Basically, in order to unlock the Workshop, you have to be lucky to get an EXALT mission where there are Psiclones stored somewhere, or get a mission with a Reaper chilling out and eating people, or perhaps a Beach episode with Osiron goons. Otherwise, it's difficult to get that research topic if the RNG hates you, because many of the items that unlock said topic require a Laboratory of some sort to be studied.
Perhaps the Science Lab should not be locked behind Promotion 2? It already has many built-in restrictions, such as its massive price, the fact you can only have one facility of that kind per base, and the research subject required to unlock it being quite long to complete. That way, if you can get it after say "Mutant Metabolism" is researched, you would be able to research stuff that requires a lab (such as a Flame Glove or the Canister Gun) and more easily unlock the path towards getting a Workshop without depending so much on specific RNG.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: TheCurse on December 02, 2019, 06:29:12 pm
I think the cool gadget is unlocked by dozens of items already, you may get unlucky with RNG, but probability is low...
There´s worse things to wait for.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Bobit on December 03, 2019, 01:06:57 am
No he's right, psiclone is really the only easy way to get a Cool Gadget around the same time you get a Strange Creature.  Otherwise you're waiting quite a while, and All Staff Recruited is absolutely necessary for midgame progression. It's not something that is very harmful to gameplay, basically just one more random factor, so I wouldn't call it a balance problem. It is mildly disappointing that out of that huge list only one item really matters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: AgitateAntelope on December 03, 2019, 02:42:25 am
I have just researched napalm grenades after promotion 3 but they seem inferior to regular incendiary grenades in every way. Smaller area, less damage and have to manufacture them myself instead of just buying them.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Mathel on December 03, 2019, 07:32:06 am
If I remember correctly, Incendiaries do 5 to 10 raw damage on impact and then regular fire, its damage stat giving the explosion radius. This is how incendiary ammunition in vanilla works as well.
Napalm does 20 to 60 raw damage on impact (RandomType:2, 50% to 150%) and then regular fire.
Both do 15 times to morale what they did to HP, which means Napalm is almost guaranteed to panic your target.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Ridley on December 03, 2019, 11:25:27 am
Respectfully just wondering when a version may be available for download? Been dying to play this but literally came to download it on the same day you took it down  :P

Is there perhaps an older version I can play in the meantime?

Thanks and love your work, really enjoyed final modpack! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: asc767 on December 04, 2019, 11:24:35 pm
I have some questions regarding Lunar Satellites.
How does one acquire "satellite supply" which is required for the launch? Does the satellite control building need to be built and does it need to be in the same base as the workshop that builds the satellite launch?
Also the satellite itself and the hyper wave decoder seem to be missing UFOpedia entries in 1.02. Example attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on December 05, 2019, 09:32:22 am
Anybody knows what Helix Knight transformation does? No records in "bonuses" screen, no bonuses after transformation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Mathel on December 05, 2019, 09:43:04 am
Anybody knows what Helix Knight transformation does? No records in "bonuses" screen, no bonuses after transformation.
From soldierBonuses_XCOMFILES.rul
Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_HELIX_KNIGHT
    stats:
      stamina: 10
      health: 10
      reactions: 5
      firing: 10
      throwing: 5
      strength: 5
      melee: 10

Perhaps not showing the bonuses is a bug caused by not requiring stats, just prior transformations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on December 05, 2019, 11:20:28 am
Perhaps not showing the bonuses is a bug caused by not requiring stats, just prior transformations.

I've had the same thoughts and checked soldiers' stats screen after transformation... Nothing changed.
Seems like it is another sort of a bug.  :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Space_Age_Hippie on December 08, 2019, 11:09:28 pm
Hey Is There A Way I can Download this as it says its temporarily unavailable so any older version at all? Thx
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 08, 2019, 11:22:50 pm
I've had the same thoughts and checked soldiers' stats screen after transformation... Nothing changed.
Seems like it is another sort of a bug.  :(


Yes, it was a bug, now fixed. And version 1.1 has been released!

- Removed all terrains made by Hobbes.
- New Durathread Factory map.
- Improved M.A.G.M.A. Minitank Factory map.
- New Alien Base, Farm and City mapblocks (by Civilian).
- Overhauled and expanded Industrial terrain (by Dioxine).
- New Geoscape theme (from Devilman Crybaby).
- New items: Smart Shotgun Ammo, Smart Shotgun Tritanium Ammo.
- Magnum has a shorter snap range.
- Improved graphics for the BlackOps Sniper Rifle (by Ethanw80) and the Multilauncher (by The Martian).
- New handob for generic shotguns (by Efrenespartano).
- Improved police resistances.
- Decreased enemy spotter timers.
- Decreased the price of the Concussion Cannon.
- Removed front doors from the Skymarshall.
- Rebalanced UAC Rocket Launcher Clip.
- Staff of Heart Grip is slower.
- Added missing descriptions to some Ufopedia articles related to the lunar arc.
- Renamed STR_STIMULANT to STR_STIMS to avoid strings clash.
- Large Alien Drone wrecks are now recovered properly.
- Fixed the Takedown Specialist commendation.
- Fixed the Helix Knight and Helix Psion transformations.
- Minor tweaks and fixes.

So, we're back online! Enjoy!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: namad on December 09, 2019, 02:48:04 am
Wow 1.0 and 1.1 have so many new features and feature overhauls, I wonder. Are my saves from 0.9.9 still valid? or should I finish my 0.9.9 campaign before updating?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: X-Man on December 09, 2019, 05:44:07 am
- Removed front doors from the Skymarshall.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1vka8v.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.2: Judgement Day
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 09, 2019, 11:50:50 am
Wow 1.0 and 1.1 have so many new features and feature overhauls, I wonder. Are my saves from 0.9.9 still valid? or should I finish my 0.9.9 campaign before updating?

Please refer to the instructions in the post for release of 1.0.

Basically yes, but your people will be kinda OP.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 09, 2019, 01:20:43 pm
Back online, hurrà!

I really like the random events and the new custom sttartin base, but i wish in the future  wemay have ust one hangar at the beginning of the game.

Edit: forgot to tell: particulairly appreciated it is avaiable from scratch, no need to turn "custom starting base" on!!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Mathel on December 09, 2019, 01:25:55 pm
I wanted to do that, X-Man. Glad I checked the next page before posting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 09, 2019, 01:59:20 pm
I wanted to do that, X-Man. Glad I checked the next page before posting.

Why not? If people will be crying about that, may be daddy will return the door back! :D
To my mind, it's a kick right below the belt... :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 09, 2019, 02:03:10 pm
but i wish in the future  wemay have ust one hangar at the beginning of the game

Why wait for the future? Just dismantle one of the them right now!  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 09, 2019, 02:17:31 pm
Why wait for the future? Just dismantle one of the them right now!  ;D

;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Space_Age_Hippie on December 09, 2019, 07:10:16 pm
Hey I have been struggling to actually download the mod. The video doesn't help. So some help would be appreciated thanks 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Ves on December 09, 2019, 07:32:32 pm
I think it doesn't come with OXCE included anymore. So you need to download that first:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html

Now in the main OXCE directory create a folder called user and within that a folder called mods. XcomFiles and DarkGeoscape go into that mods folder.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Space_Age_Hippie on December 09, 2019, 09:53:26 pm
I think it doesn't come with OXCE included anymore. So you need to download that first:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html

Now in the main OXCE directory create a folder called user and within that a folder called mods. XcomFiles and DarkGeoscape go into that mods folder.

Thanks man it worked you're a legend
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 10, 2019, 12:03:24 am
Version 1.1.1 has been released.

- New Industrial mapblocks (by Dioxine).
- Fixed issues with leftover terrain references.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 12, 2019, 09:33:10 am
Version 1.1.1 has been released.

- New Industrial mapblocks (by Dioxine).
- Fixed issues with leftover terrain references.

I downloaded 1.1.1a; waht's new? Also to unlock covert operation must research first "basic operations" and then two separate topics "cover:sportsmen" and "cover surfers"; personally i'd like if these were unlocked after researched a topic called "covert operations" after the basic on is completed: wouldn't have been more logical?

Some observations:

1) not necessairly a bug, but the handob for the small shotgun it's a regular shotgun one, may need to change? These have also the same price, pheraphs the small needs its price to be cut an half? May i suggest 900$ as price?

2) the whole game sees three promotion steps but how to make five to make the game progression more gradual? Cannot see why some common items like the pitchfork, billhook and knife have to be researched..coe on these are just common item buyable even fron an hardware store! 

3) may be more variety of layout for the crop circles in the battlescape maps, like the ones seen in TV?

4) for balancing purposes uzi should be more powerful but less precise than the skorpion SMG; actually the latter does the same damage but is a bit more precise, the former might be a little deadlier (dmg 23?) Also why don't use the handob from xeno operation mod? (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2913.0.html)

5) In undercover missinons like the surfers, sky resort and the osiron business should be an escape area maked by green tiles as in xpiratez, though the briefing says that player cannot escape from the mission, if i press A in battlescape, my craft is able to return to base, once i get in geoscape mode. Please double check

6) the skorpion smg handib may need to be made more brightned since i think it's not very "eye friendly"

7) might some rifles and shotguns  have a gunbutt attack option?

8) the shotgun and the black shotgun have stats inverted, unless it is intended, see 'shots attached

9) I've started a secon base in the USA but i'm a very bad financial conditions  :'( any hint to give?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 13, 2019, 09:33:22 am
Dear Solaripus,
I've also made some kind of colt M4 which is strangely absent from the game and a couple more of weapon sprites, just in case you'd want to add to the mod, the H&KMP5 navy version, a H&KG36, and a MK3 grenade (the last ones an homage to urban terror!) here these are attached :) I've made also a fire hatched, may be a sprite recoverable from urban scenarios

Other suggestions: aside form farmers, also lumberjacks were involved in aliedn abduction stories; may add them by modifying the farmer sprite: lore they give may be more or less same as farmer, pheraps some new content. And while farmer may be armed with pitchfork, lumberjack with axes. For farmers i've made an hoe too here.

As for gameplay: i'd add an handful of new common firearms to be found in the initial phases of the game, for instance an MP-40 which is way more common than the grease gun. Cannot remember if it's already in the game, sorry, if so please mind to make some new ones? In the meantime i'm making a nice with research and i was abble to afford a third base :)

Lastly: snother interesting thingh missing from the mod are: firefighters! May be involved in missiins helping the player in a burnin scenario where it is necessary to save secret documents, a mission style like "hot pursuit" in xpiratez; they should be equipped with frie extinguishers and hatchet (see above)  8)

Edit: made some adjustments to sprites, hope you like these:)


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 13, 2019, 02:36:55 pm
I've launched Lunar satellite, rescued MAGMA cosmonaut, but nothing changes during last 3 month. No lunar missions appeared.
Every possible techs are learned. What do I need to continue Lunar arc?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: BoToJu on December 13, 2019, 07:34:33 pm
One Question about the changes between 1.0.2 and 1.1. I did a file comparison between both versions to check the consequences of this disastrous "issue" some days ago. I've been playing the Cult HQ Mission and wondered about the map. If i remember it correctly, i think it was some sort of jungle environment. This time it's been an "usual Base". The changelog already hints "Removed all terrains made by Hobbes", but it seems you've been forced to "fallback" to some default maps completely, or am i completely wrong?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 14, 2019, 11:31:18 am
I've launched Lunar satellite, rescued MAGMA cosmonaut, but nothing changes during last 3 month. No lunar missions appeared.
Every possible techs are learned. What do I need to continue Lunar arc?

Nice. http://prntscr.com/qap4kb
Why there is no in-game info about that??? A lot of hours of the real life fucked down...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Spess Mahren on December 15, 2019, 05:40:24 am
Congrats on making it to 1.0, I just wanted to ask two things. First the mod is balanced for experienced difficulty only correct? Second in regards to the default list of mini mods that openxcom comes with do I just leave everything off? Right now I'm just running the stat-string mini-mod because it doesn't effect game play at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: HT on December 15, 2019, 05:02:11 pm
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but it bears repeating: The mod doesn't exactly require, but would be better if there was some sort of "mind shield" against psychic attacks. Piratez has two types, and X-COM should be able to whip out a solution for that: Some sort of "neural shield" to protect weaker units from mind-rape. End-game power armor would have that option already built-in (since they lack space to carry additional stuff due lacking a backpack slot), at the expense of being more expensive.

Also, is the regular helicopter you unlock early intended to be allowed for infiltration missions? I suppose it makes sense that a civilian type helicopter is not too eye-catching compared to a hi-tech airship, but I wish to confirm just to be sure. Too bad the Skymarshall lost its frontal door.

Finally: Is there any thought about having an attack-type vehicle between drones and the HWP platforms? Before unlocking the small-sized tanks, I meant stuff such as military, bulkier drones. These are a thing IRL and they carry machineguns and stuff like that, so it would make sense if at Promotion 2 you can eventually unlock the option to have that before Promotion 3. Naturally, said unit would be big, but not as big as the HWP, and would be limited to having a machine-gun weapon only for balance purpsoses.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 15, 2019, 05:13:05 pm
OK, 1.1.2 has been released.
- Reworked Urban Junk terrain.
- General terrain cleanup.
- Minor tweaks to the BlackOps LMG and the BlackOps Assault Cannon.
- Fixed some leftover crashes.
- Fixed missing stairs in one sewers map.

So basically another bugfix release, with some minor tweaks. I hope now it's all done and I can move on to actual fun stuff.

I downloaded 1.1.1a; waht's new?

Nothing warranting a changelog, there was only a misplaced file.

Also to unlock covert operation must research first "basic operations" and then two separate topics "cover:sportsmen" and "cover surfers"; personally i'd like if these were unlocked after researched a topic called "covert operations" after the basic on is completed: wouldn't have been more logical?

Sorry, I haven't fully understood this sentence. Do you mean less "cover" steps for the missions? If yes, eh, sure, everything can be made differently, but why would I gut the early game so badly? Also I can present some arguments for why it works as it currently does, but where are yours?

1) not necessairly a bug, but the handob for the small shotgun it's a regular shotgun one, may need to change?

Sure, some weapons share handobs. Making a special one for every single gun isn't very cost effective, as few people would even notice.

These have also the same price, pheraphs the small needs its price to be cut an half? May i suggest 900$ as price?

Regular shotgun: $2200
Small shotgun: $1700
Am I misunderstanding something?

2) the whole game sees three promotion steps but how to make five to make the game progression more gradual?

Why?
How?

Cannot see why some common items like the pitchfork, billhook and knife have to be researched..coe on these are just common item buyable even fron an hardware store!

Only people who read the Pedia understand such things. :P

3) may be more variety of layout for the crop circles in the battlescape maps, like the ones seen in TV?

I haven't watched TV for 20 years, I had no idea they are now transmitting standards for crop circles. :P
But seriously, there are 4 variants already, what's wrong with them? I can't think of anything else I could add.

4) for balancing purposes uzi should be more powerful but less precise than the skorpion SMG; actually the latter does the same damage but is a bit more precise, the former might be a little deadlier (dmg 23?)

But why would two 9mm bullets be different?

Also why don't use the handob from xeno operation mod? (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2913.0.html)

But Uzi already has its own handob... Some other SMGs don't, though.

5) In undercover missinons like the surfers, sky resort and the osiron business should be an escape area maked by green tiles as in xpiratez, though the briefing says that player cannot escape from the mission, if i press A in battlescape, my craft is able to return to base, once i get in geoscape mode. Please double check

What do you mean "should"? Why?
Honestly, you keep talking to me like I have never seen this mod up close. Also, where are the arguments? Reasons? It's like saying "UFO walls should be yellow instead of blue" without giving any justifications.

6) the skorpion smg handib may need to be made more brightned since i think it's not very "eye friendly"

I think you mixed it up with something else, because 1) the Skorpion doesn't have its own special handob, and 2) the one it uses is fairly light. So I can't say much.

7) might some rifles and shotguns  have a gunbutt attack option?

Theoretically yes, but deciding which one should and shouldn't would be pretty arbitrary and I am not eager to start this shitstorm. With easily accessible clubs, and also fist attacks, I don't think it's a big issue.

8) the shotgun and the black shotgun have stats inverted, unless it is intended, see 'shots attached

I can't see anything unintended. Yes, the standard shotgun has better accuracy.

9) I've started a secon base in the USA but i'm a very bad financial conditions  :'( any hint to give?

It's a tough question... Selling monster corpses is my main early source of income. Some cult missions have a good chance to yield valuable loot, like money bags.

I've also made some kind of colt M4 which is strangely absent from the game and a couple more of weapon sprites, just in case you'd want to add to the mod, the H&KMP5 navy version, a H&KG36, and a MK3 grenade (the last ones an homage to urban terror!) here these are attached :) I've made also a fire hatched, may be a sprite recoverable from urban scenarios

Thank you! Much appreciated. I'll add them to the big pile of sprites waiting to be implemented at some point. :P
These sprites needed some work (palettes, sizes, proportions), but I like the general designs of most of these. I kept the Colt M4, the H&KG36 (and the clip), the MP5 variant and the hoe. I had to fiddle with them a lot, but it wasn't much effort.
The fire hatchet is way too fiery. :) Fixing it would be too much effort, almost like drawing it from scratch, so I'll pass. And the grenade is the size of a flamethrower tank. :)
If you want to make more, could you please leave it in RGB? Your palettes were incompatble with X-Com, so I had to convert them anyway. No need for this extra step.
Anyway, good job. :)

Other suggestions: aside form farmers, also lumberjacks were involved in aliedn abduction stories; may add them by modifying the farmer sprite: lore they give may be more or less same as farmer, pheraps some new content. And while farmer may be armed with pitchfork, lumberjack with axes. For farmers i've made an hoe too here.

We have the Forester unit, which could be used. But they'd need a new mission anyway. I'll think about it.

As for gameplay: i'd add an handful of new common firearms to be found in the initial phases of the game, for instance an MP-40 which is way more common than the grease gun. Cannot remember if it's already in the game, sorry, if so please mind to make some new ones? In the meantime i'm making a nice with research and i was abble to afford a third base :)

Well, some players are already complaining there are too many guns... ;) I don't agree myself, though. More will be added when I feel like it, but let's face it, they only matter in very early game, before you get into BlackOps, UAC and M.A.G.M.A. Also, while I have quite a lot of graphics for new weapons, it's hard to make them different enough to matter and it wouldn't be good design to turn them into simple reskins.

Lastly: snother interesting thingh missing from the mod are: firefighters! May be involved in missiins helping the player in a burnin scenario where it is necessary to save secret documents, a mission style like "hot pursuit" in xpiratez; they should be equipped with frie extinguishers and hatchet (see above)  8)

Yes, there are many options. Osobist made some very nice firefighter sprites. We'll see when I have more time.

Edit: made some adjustments to sprites, hope you like these:)

Thanks man!

I've launched Lunar satellite, rescued MAGMA cosmonaut, but nothing changes during last 3 month. No lunar missions appeared.
Every possible techs are learned. What do I need to continue Lunar arc?

Have you researched an Ethereal Commander and The Martian Solution?

One Question about the changes between 1.0.2 and 1.1. I did a file comparison between both versions to check the consequences of this disastrous "issue" some days ago. I've been playing the Cult HQ Mission and wondered about the map. If i remember it correctly, i think it was some sort of jungle environment. This time it's been an "usual Base". The changelog already hints "Removed all terrains made by Hobbes", but it seems you've been forced to "fallback" to some default maps completely, or am i completely wrong?

Yes, some of his maps were used, so naturally they had to be replaced with something else - sometimes with vanilla terrains.

Why there is no in-game info about that??? A lot of hours of the real life fucked down...

I'm not sure how to communicate it better. Will think about it before the next release.

Congrats on making it to 1.0

Thank you!

I just wanted to ask two things. First the mod is balanced for experienced difficulty only correct?

It's not exactly balanced for any specific difficulty, this isn't Overwatch or any other competitive e-sport title. It's more of a personal choice, just assume that the lowest and the highest difficulty are borderline cheaty (for good or bad). The middle difficulty is, well, average.

Second in regards to the default list of mini mods that openxcom comes with do I just leave everything off? Right now I'm just running the stat-string mini-mod because it doesn't effect game play at all.

Yes, leave everything off. These mods won't do anything, and might mess with the settings. They're meant for vanilla.
The statstrings mod is pretty non-invasive, but also not very well adjusted to XCF, as the stat scale is different.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but it bears repeating: The mod doesn't exactly require, but would be better if there was some sort of "mind shield" against psychic attacks. Piratez has two types, and X-COM should be able to whip out a solution for that: Some sort of "neural shield" to protect weaker units from mind-rape. End-game power armor would have that option already built-in (since they lack space to carry additional stuff due lacking a backpack slot), at the expense of being more expensive.

I've been considering this, but the engine limitations prevent me from doing it the way I like it. This is something I'm thinking about pretty often though, so might happen in the future.

Also, is the regular helicopter you unlock early intended to be allowed for infiltration missions? I suppose it makes sense that a civilian type helicopter is not too eye-catching compared to a hi-tech airship, but I wish to confirm just to be sure. Too bad the Skymarshall lost its frontal door.

Basically, yes.
Additionally, there's another copter in the making (not by me), so if it's ready, I'll probably use it. It would be a tiny one for only two people, but super stealthy.

Finally: Is there any thought about having an attack-type vehicle between drones and the HWP platforms? Before unlocking the small-sized tanks, I meant stuff such as military, bulkier drones. These are a thing IRL and they carry machineguns and stuff like that, so it would make sense if at Promotion 2 you can eventually unlock the option to have that before Promotion 3. Naturally, said unit would be big, but not as big as the HWP, and would be limited to having a machine-gun weapon only for balance purpsoses.
Thoughts?

Maybe, if I have a nice sprite.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 15, 2019, 05:46:28 pm
I'm not sure how to communicate it better. Will think about it before the next release.

Here is the situation.

I've built the satellite in late days of November '99, while small UFOs of etherials appeared in December '99 - January '00. Their very big UFOs (with commander on board) and base appeared at spring of 2000. As you can see, there was a very big time lag between building the satellite and the real opportunity to begin Lunar missions. That's why I think the necessity of EC interrogating is not good idea. I'm sure there are a lot of skilled players who could make it even faster. Why we should wait for etherials' appearing?

To my mind, EC interrogating should be excluded, only Martial Solution need to be researched. At least it may any of alien commanders to be interrogated for such purpose.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 15, 2019, 06:18:33 pm
To my mind, EC interrogating should be excluded, only Martial Solution need to be researched. At least it may any of alien commanders to be interrogated for such purpose.

No, that would be too soon. You could get The Martian Solution and the satellite before seeing half the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 15, 2019, 06:46:00 pm
@Solarius, sorry for being quite invasive, there were only some suggestions accordin to my taste, obviously :P i hope if thr will be some consent on these fom other user please think about :)

About some points:

Sorry, I haven't fully understood this sentence. Do you mean less "cover" steps for the missions? If yes, eh, sure, everything can be made differently, but why would I gut the early game so badly? Also I can present some arguments for why it works as it currently does, but where are yours?

yes, actually i was thinking to one topic to unlock all that kind of operations, alternatively ome more (cover:scientist) may bu unlcked after some other prequiies met

Sure, some weapons share handobs. Making a special one for every single gun isn't very cost effective, as few people would even notice.

Well at least may be possble to take ut the butt from the handob?

Regular shotgun: $2200
Small shotgun: $1700
Am I misunderstanding something?

Sorry, actually i meant the pump action shotgun! See second screenshot here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg120683.html#msg120683

Why?
How?
Don't know, that may make game progression more slower, needing an overhaul of the research three, adding more stuff. Mmmh if its to hard don't mind

Only people who read the Pedia understand such things. :P

i have to read more carefully, But seriously we don't need a scientist to research a pitchfok...

I haven't watched TV for 20 years, I had no idea they are now transmitting standards for crop circles. :P
But seriously, there are 4 variants already, what's wrong with them? I can't think of anything else I could add.

Spmething like that: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=crop+ircles&FORM=HDRSC2

But why would two 9mm bullets be different?

just for balancing purposes; im no weapon expert but ifferent guns firing same bulets may be different when it comes to damaing things? It may depends on the mechanichal of the thngh?

But Uzi already has its own handob... Some other SMGs don't, though.

Just to diversify thinghs, 90% of mods for the game share the same handob  :'( for instance ak-47 is the same as xpiratez; i was thinking about some different, see here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4983.msg72985.html#msg72985 There are plenty of resources on this foru; why keep using same sprites' If alinare agrees, the resources from his mod here may be used, saving time:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.0.html (latest version here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.msg107940.html#msg107940)

that is a hell of a load!

We have the Forester unit, which could be used. But they'd need a new mission anyway. I'll think about it.
would be nice :)

Well, some players are already complaining there are too many guns... ;) I don't agree myself, though. More will be added when I feel like it, but let's face it, they only matter in very early game, before you get into BlackOps, UAC and M.A.G.M.A. Also, while I have quite a lot of graphics for new weapons, it's hard to make them different enough to matter and it wouldn't be good design to turn them into simple reskins.

Why folks why? "The bigger (selection) the better" :) well actualy i must to admit i was an eager fan of jagged alliance 2 so i like the gun porn :D

Thank you! Much appreciated. I'll add them to the big pile of sprites waiting to be implemented at some point. :P
These sprites needed some work (palettes, sizes, proportions), but I like the general designs of most of these. I kept the Colt M4, the H&KG36 (and the clip), the MP5 variant and the hoe. I had to fiddle with them a lot, but it wasn't much effort.
The fire hatchet is way too fiery. :) Fixing it would be too much effort, almost like drawing it from scratch, so I'll pass. And the grenade is the size of a flamethrower tank. :)
If you want to make more, could you please leave it in RGB? Your palettes were incompatble with X-Com, so I had to convert them anyway. No need for this extra step.
Anyway, good job. :)

Im glad you liked the drafts; but i'm not very expert about sprites stuff i spent a day making that hatchet usin paint.net, don't know how to save in .rgm with that software. Anyway as second attempt: tryed to modify the ax included in the mod to make a fire one but seems to be kinda sufficient.. Loooking forward to see firefighters in game! :P


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 15, 2019, 07:33:34 pm
You could get The Martian Solution and the satellite before seeing half the game.

Yes, indeed. But since we don't need to
go through TFD and X-Dim arcs
, this 'half of the game" don't have any sense, especially the second one. :) I think it is the question of personal choice: if player wants to do a "speed run", he should have such an opportunity; and if player wants to investigate every corner of the game he can delay Cydonia as far as he wants.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: BlackStaff on December 15, 2019, 08:41:37 pm
i have to read more carefully, But seriously we don't need a scientist to research a pitchfok...
You are not required to search for all articles.... no ?  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on December 16, 2019, 08:11:02 pm
Hello everyone.

First, what..a...FANTASTIC...mod! Kudos, Solarius Scorch and whoever attributed to it.

I am just a standard player who finished all the X-coms old&new, but I am nowhere near expert and I am yet to understand some mechanics of the game lol, especially with this mod.

Probably as regular a question as they come, but can anyone tell me EXACTLY what smoke grenades do? I seem to get various results from using it. For example when I assault Black Lotus outposts and use them around my soldiers, they can't see me and do not fire at me unless really close. My soldiers can not see outside the smoke as well, unless they are toward the end of the smoke. I thought this is what smoke grenades do.

But when I assault the Durathread factories, the same stuff does not happen with the Red Dawn. They keep firing at me in the thick of the smoke, and I do not think there is a spotter that is just a couple of tiers away from me. And I can not see the ones firing at me. I become actually disadvantaged using smoke grenades against Red Dawn. They seem to be even more likely to shoot at me when there is smoke for some reason.

So what exactly do smoke grenades do? I am sure there are no expections in Red Dawn, it just seems I don't understand what they accomplish.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Ves on December 16, 2019, 10:12:54 pm
I guess smoke grenades still act in the same way, but there now is a spotter/sniper mechanic in place, in that if some units spot you the enemy team knows the position for (i think) 3 turns. So you receive a lot of inaccurate fire, even if the enemy shouldn't be able to see you right now. It somewhat resembles supression fire in my opinion. But the battles now get sooooo nasty sometimes :P

Search the forum for spotter/sniper. There should be some better explanations around.   
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: TheCurse on December 16, 2019, 11:45:38 pm
there´s also thermo/psi vision and such.
Wouldn't recommend to use smoke grenades vs aliens or several other enemies. They just don't care...  ;D
Red Dawn does have the spotter mechanics, but I´d assume some of their higher tier officers have limited thermal vision (due implants and such), thereby filling the spotter role quite well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 17, 2019, 12:01:30 pm
Solarius, just playing some more, may be possible to have in total IV promotion steps:

promotion I --->international task force----->promotion II international paranormal unit--->promotion III (transformatin of promotin III prequisite)---->international agency----->promotion IV---> international body

I also redrawn a new sprite for the hunting rifle, and the AK-47 and uzi handobs with gunbutts, as for the former the current one is more of a micro uzi, i've made a standard model.

Also was figuring how to take out the gunbutt on the small shotgun (see https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg120683.html#msg120683) but did not find: probalby it shares the same sprite for the regular one?

I moved some graphical resources attached to this post here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7693.msg120961.html#msg120961 please pay a visit!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: HT on December 18, 2019, 08:22:32 pm
I noticed you can build multiple "Headquarter" type facilities in the same base. Is that intentional? If so, I suppose it's a way to build additional labs once you built the regular ones, even if it's in a very cost-inefficient way.

Also, another question that no-one answered in the "open feedback" thread:

This has more to do with Piratez and X-Com Files, but I think it applies in regular X-COM games as well. If an unit has both a melee weapon and a firearm in each hand, which one takes preference if it can use both? Ie: Storming an UFO, you place a soldier next to the door to hit Sectoids with reaction fire, but doing so makes them come into melee range of the soldier.

Do your units take into account the CQC rules from the mods mentioned above and therefore automatically choose to use melee? If they have a hand slot free, would they automatically use unarmed attacks instead?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: unarmed drifter on December 18, 2019, 11:22:39 pm
@HumanTraitor
i've read somewhere in the forum, you have to click/select the hand of your choice. meaning, in case of a gun, not actually firing it, but just leftclicking so that the selection box pops up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on December 19, 2019, 10:50:25 pm
Thanks for the answers.

there´s also thermo/psi vision and such.
Wouldn't recommend to use smoke grenades vs aliens or several other enemies. They just don't care...  ;D
Red Dawn does have the spotter mechanics, but I´d assume some of their higher tier officers have limited thermal vision (due implants and such), thereby filling the spotter role quite well.

This seems to be the case. In Red Dawn's case the Soldiers, Sailors and Pioneers seem to be ones shooting at me. Didn't know there was a stat that would cause them to see through smoke, that is pretty cool and indeed consistent with the implants mentioned in Red Dawn research. Ditch it is against them, then xD.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: thisnameismeta on December 19, 2019, 11:27:05 pm
Nighttime raids are much safer against the cults since even if they babe thermal, night, or psi vision it's usually less than your normal vision. Just control the placement of lights using flares so that you can see the enemies but they can't see you and it'll be fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: HT on December 20, 2019, 02:50:01 pm
I remember that one of the new possibilities offered by the upgrades in Open Xcom is the possibility of having less aliens show up in a Base Defense mission if you manage to damage the attacking vessel during the Defense phase. Is this a thing in X-Files? Otherwise, there's no reason to keep defenses unless you want to avoid being attacked too frequently, or there are vessels capable of destroying instantly your base (also a thing possible in the modified engine).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Doc on December 20, 2019, 09:38:41 pm
Absolutely fantastic mod, been enjoying it completely.

Made it to August 1998, and still getting surprises and curveballs every month. Hybrids? Barn of Gore?? Exobiological Contamination? What next, what next...

Done two of the Cult HQ assaults, Dagon and Exalt.

Exalt had its moments, and I can see how the theme of a million doors, rooms, and an upward (downward) fight keeps you moving and creates tension, but I have to say the map seems just a little too big and empty. Once I'd cleared out 99% of the enemies I ended up playing till bug hunt mode to find the one last Enforcer that decided to hide in a tiny stairway on the 3rd (4th?) and stand still. By then of course everyone but the dog was panicking every turn due to readiness drain.

Dagon HQ was tough, but actually pretty fun. Felt like a desperate fight at the LZ as the crazies just kept streaming in until we were finally able to push out and fight our way into the temple proper.

Now down one Avatar that thoroughly traumatized a few squads and ready to see what the ninja boys have to offer.

Liked the special missions for the cults that I've gotten so far, Exalt Liquidation, Soul Harvest, Durathread Factory and the Shrine. Tough and fairly unique in each case. I'd love to know if anyone has managed to save the civilians in the Liguidation though!

Again, appreciate the modding work. This seriously goes beyond the scope of most mods, practically its own game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on December 21, 2019, 03:41:29 pm
1) I just finished the new Red Dawn HQ (first HQ in this campaign). Here's my thoughts:
It still fits Red Dawn thematically, but it's not as pretty. Most importantly, it's much easier than the old one. Whether this is good, bad or neutral I can't say. One thing I do know: To me the old Red Dawn HQ was the most difficult HQ by far. This was due to having a hot LZ with no cover whatsoever, lots of enemies on the surface with sniper rifles and machine guns, entry points to the lower level being difficult to reach, enemies in the big trench throwing explosives at you without having to expose themselves. Doing it without either alloy vests or HWPs was inadvisable in my opinion.
The new HQ is the exact opposite. Zero enemies on the surface. That's the most important difference I think. Some cover around the LZ. Several entrypoints, but enemies can use only the main entry. If making the mission more difficult is desired, I suggest the following: Open the fence around the entry to the ventilation shafts. Put a couple enemies on the surface but don't go crazy.

2) I have had all the cult operations research done for several months now, but not a single base mission so far (the Red Dawn Coordinator I got in a different type of mission). I checked my savegame and one base (Black Lotus) is coming up this month. Still, this is a pittance compared to my last campaign, where several base missions would spawn each month. It's not a problem for me, just an annoyance. So I took a look at the mission scripts.
For example:
  - type: CultBaseEXALT2
    executionOdds: 4
Does that mean 4% chance of that mission appearing per month? There are eight CultBaseEXALT missions listed. So 32% chance total for an Exalt base in a month? Am I interpreting this correctly?
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: RolandVasko on December 22, 2019, 01:14:35 am
...but, anyway, ~~ 

so, how do you do, in those western EUrope, still,

:D :p

lôl,

eh!..
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 22, 2019, 02:36:22 am
@Solarius, sorry for being quite invasive, there were only some suggestions accordin to my taste, obviously :P i hope if thr will be some consent on these fom other user please think about :)

Not to worry! You speak openly what you want, I'll speak openly what you get. :)

Well at least may be possble to take ut the butt from the handob?

Well... Yes, if it's made! :)

Sorry, actually i meant the pump action shotgun! See second screenshot here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg120683.html#msg120683

Thanks, fixed.

Don't know, that may make game progression more slower, needing an overhaul of the research three, adding more stuff. Mmmh if its to hard don't mind

No.

i have to read more carefully, But seriously we don't need a scientist to research a pitchfok...

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M4OYakFshc8/maxresdefault.jpg)

Spmething like that: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=crop+ircles&FORM=HDRSC2

...good luck with that on a 10x10 pixel canvas.

just for balancing purposes; im no weapon expert but ifferent guns firing same bulets may be different when it comes to damaing things? It may depends on the mechanichal of the thngh?

No, why? I mean, I understand accuracy and such, but amm properties???

Just to diversify thinghs, 90% of mods for the game share the same handob  :'( for instance ak-47 is the same as xpiratez; i was thinking about some different, see here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4983.msg72985.html#msg72985 There are plenty of resources on this foru; why keep using same sprites' If alinare agrees, the resources from his mod here may be used, saving time:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.0.html (latest version here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5410.msg107940.html#msg107940)

I am not in the phase to hunt for or make resources now, but maybe, if something comes around...

Why folks why? "The bigger (selection) the better" :) well actualy i must to admit i was an eager fan of jagged alliance 2 so i like the gun porn :D

Well I like it too, as you can probably guess :D

Im glad you liked the drafts; but i'm not very expert about sprites stuff i spent a day making that hatchet usin paint.net, don't know how to save in .rgm with that software. Anyway as second attempt: tryed to modify the ax included in the mod to make a fire one but seems to be kinda sufficient.. Loooking forward to see firefighters in game! :P

This one looks way better, but again, NO PALETTE PLEASE!

(...) this 'half of the game" don't have any sense, especially the second one. :) I think it is the question of personal choice: if player wants to do a "speed run", he should have such an opportunity; and if player wants to investigate every corner of the game he can delay Cydonia as far as he wants.

Well, yes and no... :)

First, what..a...FANTASTIC...mod! Kudos, Solarius Scorch and whoever attributed to it.

Thanks! Always more than happy to see a new face :)

Your question was answered correctly, so no need to add anything.

Solarius, just playing some more, may be possible to have in total IV promotion steps:

promotion I --->international task force----->promotion II international paranormal unit--->promotion III (transformatin of promotin III prequisite)---->international agency----->promotion IV---> international body

And why would I sepnd several weeks on reorganizing everything? This doesn't seem any objectively better.

I saidv it already and apparently I need to reinforce the message: justification or GTFO. Why would I even bother to read something like this?

I also redrawn a new sprite for the hunting rifle, and the AK-47 and uzi handobs with gunbutts, as for the former the current one is more of a micro uzi, i've made a standard model.

Pretty interesting. I will save these and see what I can do with them. But this Uzi is like, twice as big as it should...

Also was figuring how to take out the gunbutt on the small shotgun (see https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg120683.html#msg120683) but did not find: probalby it shares the same sprite for the regular one?

Which sprite?

I noticed you can build multiple "Headquarter" type facilities in the same base. Is that intentional? If so, I suppose it's a way to build additional labs once you built the regular ones, even if it's in a very cost-inefficient way.

Right now you can, but we'll see about that.

I remember that one of the new possibilities offered by the upgrades in Open Xcom is the possibility of having less aliens show up in a Base Defense mission if you manage to damage the attacking vessel during the Defense phase. Is this a thing in X-Files? Otherwise, there's no reason to keep defenses unless you want to avoid being attacked too frequently, or there are vessels capable of destroying instantly your base (also a thing possible in the modified engine).

I keep changing my mind here. :P

Absolutely fantastic mod, been enjoying it completely.

Thank you! :)
And gracias for the impressions.

For example:
  - type: CultBaseEXALT2
    executionOdds: 4
Does that mean 4% chance of that mission appearing per month? There are eight CultBaseEXALT missions listed. So 32% chance total for an Exalt base in a month? Am I interpreting this correctly?

Yes, 4%, but there are 8 such scripts. So much more.

And thanks for the Red Dawn HQ feedback!

Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 22, 2019, 03:31:40 pm
Which sprite?

The attached on in battlescspe displays a gunbutt; but as you wrote before it was already fixed.

As the rest; lookin forward to next version!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Doc on December 24, 2019, 03:03:44 pm
Magma Labs first time, scared of zombies again. Having my last four survivors desperately fighting back to back and picking up heavy weapons off dead troopers as they run out of ammo was quite the experience.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 24, 2019, 03:24:35 pm
Magma Labs first time, scared of zombies again. Having my last four survivors desperately fighting back to back and picking up heavy weapons off dead troopers as they run out of ammo was quite the experience.

Yeah, it's not easy at that time. I think it can be hard because it puts the player against mostly standard zombies in a completely different environment. And the new enemy types don't help!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 25, 2019, 07:11:14 am
Merry X-Mas to you, my dear western X-Comrades!  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on December 26, 2019, 10:51:25 pm
About the mod's logic, are you supposed to end all cults at the time the invasion starts in 1999? I am at Jan 1999 and I've only terminated EXALT so far. Would have finished Black Lotus too but that Boss banshee kicked my ass bad :D.

 
Merry X-Mas to you, my dear western X-Comrades!  ;)

Merry X-Mas to you too!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: zoli on December 28, 2019, 10:51:15 am
Hi!

First of all, I would like to thank Yankes and Meridian for creating OXCE and Solarius Scorch for creating XCF! The game is great! I tried it a year ago and i started a new game now. I look forward to the changes since last time.
There are a lot of new functional and game mechanic features in OXCE, i discovered some of it by watching youtube videos and some of it by complete accident(for example: i can hide items in the purchase menu, its useful to clean up that list!). The bug hunt mode is much appreciated!(I also know its necessary because of the new readiness system)

I have a question about Humvees vs Helicopters: are the Humvees intented for poor financial conditions(compared to choppers)? This is what i know:
1. Research:
After recruiting the millitary envoy, I needed about 5 days to research Humvees with 15 scientists. I needed 6 or 7 days to research flight training and helicopters.
My conclusion: you get to both vehicles at the same time. You need to research flight training later anyway.
2. Stats:
The chopper is faster, carries more people but its range is limited to almost 10.000 km.
The humvee has a practically unlimited range. It has a weapon hardpoint but AFAIK it won’t be needed?
3. Price tag:
Humvee: 75K, then 5K monthly.
Helicopter: 100K, then 6K monthly.
Because choppers don’t have global coverage, you should build a second base for chopper number two.
A new base for interceptions can cost 1.5-2 millions and the upkeep is 60-100K monthly.

So I think now it only makes sense to go for Humvees if:
1. you don’t have money for a second base for several months after recruiting the envoy
2. you don’t have a big enough revenue to maintain two bases

Experienced players, do you actually need Humvees as an intermediate transport on Superhuman? I have enough money to build a new base so i won’t need Humvees. But I desperately need faster transports.

Also, what are the best ways to make money in this game? What items are profitable to manufacture once i can build a workshop?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 28, 2019, 11:35:16 am
Experienced players, do you actually need Humvees as an intermediate transport on Superhuman? I have enough money to build a new base so i won’t need Humvees. But I desperately need faster transports.

You are talking about so individual issues... What answer do you expect? Yes, humvees (Land Rovers lately) are very useful because of their almost unlimited range. As for me, I'm playing on SH difficulty and using such transport until Skymarshall appears. Monster hunting, farms, hunting for lunatics, etc. It is very convenient for me have such small team which is always ready to work in every point of the Earth.

If you have short-range craft (helicopter, Dragonfly, etc.), build second base on the opposite semisphere. Then build there small living quarters, one hangar and at least one small warehouse. After that, if you need to engage into mission on another continent, you can easily transport all your craft with its team to the second base and draw them back to the first one. I'm acting like that every time, until Skymarshall appears.

Actually, I've never have any problems with money, so I didn't bother myself by any financial calculations.  :)

Also, what are the best ways to make money in this game? What items are profitable to manufacture once i can build a workshop?

The most profitable (in order from the most to less profit): 1-alien heavy laser, 2-chemogun, 3-alien laser rifle/laser rifle, 4-alloys.
Just produce that item which is the most profitable in your current situation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: zoli on December 28, 2019, 04:25:54 pm
I was looking for reasons to use the Humvee. It didn’t seem that its usage can depend so much on personal tastes. I didn’t bother calculating the cost of a new base until now! :) And I never thought transporting teams and choppers from one base to the other can be that quick – I have to use vans now and I miss a lot of missions just because my agents can’t get there in time. I work with two teams now and I planned to move one of them to the new base.

Thank you for the manufacturing tips! I think alien alloys will be the first item i can research on this list.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on December 28, 2019, 09:13:14 pm
I have a question about Humvees vs Helicopters
Yes, if you have the money (and can deal with he hassle) to have several strike teams spread across bases around the globe, then the helicopter is clearly the better choice. That is also what I have done.
Another thing to note: The humvee is considered a military vessel and the chopper a civilian one. That gives the chopper another advantage: It can partake in covert missions like ski and beach resorts. However, for some reason, it cannot do all covert missions. For example, if I remember correctly, for Osrion Stakeout you still need to keep around a car or van (or land rover, once that becomes available).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 29, 2019, 04:41:59 pm
Thanks, guys! Merry post-Christmas to you too!

About the mod's logic, are you supposed to end all cults at the time the invasion starts in 1999? I am at Jan 1999 and I've only terminated EXALT so far. Would have finished Black Lotus too but that Boss banshee kicked my ass bad :D.

It's not that you're supposed to do that; if you don't, it doesn't mean you play badly. But it will save you some hassle. Consider it a reward for exceptional performance.

The Copter vs. Humvee has probably been covered already.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 29, 2019, 04:48:06 pm
There may be a 5 seats vehice that can embrace incognito misisons? Actually the van has for and hummer 5 but would be nice another one for such missions that is five-sized. How about a private-van that has it, corresonding to the private car but with one more seat? Maybe a pick up if it's not already present in the game?

Edit: og and anyway may be nice ro escape from the undercover missions, i'd like green spots across the map borders; xcom apicalypae allowed to leave the missions in that way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Hadriex on December 29, 2019, 05:32:50 pm
Glad to hear Red Dawn HQ is a little easier. Honestly that was one insane.

Actually I kinda wish Red Dawn, in general, used smaller numbers of stronger soldiers. As they're hopped up on that storm stuff that's some kinda super steroids or something.

My thoughts on Chopper vs humvee:
In my experience you always want the most boots on the ground you can get. But I suppose if you actually know what a mission is going to look like it might be different. But generally I consider more guys to be worth any price.

Maybe that hard point on the humvee doesn't matter right now. But who's to say Exalt or someone won't decide to buy a couple planes to assault your transports. Force you to track down a secret airfield or some such to shut it down. Possibilities like that made me all kinds of nervous when I was playing blind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 29, 2019, 05:39:06 pm
There may be a 5 seats vehice that can embrace incognito misisons? Actually the van has for and hummer 5 but would be nice another one for such missions that is five-sized. How about a private-van that has it, corresonding to the private car but with one more seat? Maybe a pick up if it's not already present in the game?

What, like the already existing Land Rover? :P

Edit: og and anyway may be nice ro escape from the undercover missions, i'd like green spots across the map borders; xcom apicalypae allowed to leave the missions in that way.

Not feasible without a huge pain, and I don't like it anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 29, 2019, 06:25:45 pm
What, like the already existing Land Rover? :P

Umh i did not discover it yet! it's a mid game vehicle? Please any ugopedia screenshot?  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on December 29, 2019, 06:57:22 pm
Umh i did not discover it yet! it's a mid game vehicle?

You need to research Promotion III and Advanced Undercover Operations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on December 31, 2019, 08:47:39 pm
@X-Man: thanks for the tip!

@Solarius: personally i'd switch the humvee and the land rover, considering the former has even a wepon slot and it's more fit for military employment, and the latter seems to me more civilian.

Also may be possible to have a three seat vehicle in between the car and the van? May be name minivan, search in google images for some inspiration :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Nakaraf on January 01, 2020, 03:45:29 am
Hello everyone I recently updated from 0.9.6 (c?) to 1.1.2 and loaded an old save everything works just fine except the face sprite for the female hybrid. So every time I go in to the inventory and select a female hybrid the game crashes and I get this crash report.

Is this problem fixed by starting a new game? if not how do I fix it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Doc on January 02, 2020, 07:35:27 am
Quick question, is it possible to get reaction fire with the taser? Never actually seen it go off, despite a million cornered farmer scenarios where it potentially could've.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on January 02, 2020, 08:05:30 am
Quick question, is it possible to get reaction fire with the taser? Never actually seen it go off, despite a million cornered farmer scenarios where it potentially could've.

No. Reaction shots are possible if your firearm has "snap shot" mode.
Taser has only "aimed shot" mode.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Doc on January 02, 2020, 08:08:14 am
No. Reaction shots are possible if your firearm has "snap shot" mode.
Taser has only "aimed shot" mode.

Ah of course, since all reacts are snaps. Thank you!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 03, 2020, 09:06:21 pm
@Solarius: personally i'd switch the humvee and the land rover, considering the former has even a wepon slot and it's more fit for military employment, and the latter seems to me more civilian.

So what kind of switch do you mean? Certainly not simply switching the research, as obviously it wouldn't make any sense in the context.

Also may be possible to have a three seat vehicle in between the car and the van? May be name minivan, search in google images for some inspiration :)

And make the van even harder to get? Why do you hate the players so much? :P

Hello everyone I recently updated from 0.9.6 (c?) to 1.1.2 and loaded an old save everything works just fine except the face sprite for the female hybrid. So every time I go in to the inventory and select a female hybrid the game crashes and I get this crash report.

Is this problem fixed by starting a new game? if not how do I fix it?

I can't think of anything which could cause this... Try switching to another armour maybe?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Nakaraf on January 04, 2020, 10:28:17 am
So what kind of switch do you mean? Certainly not simply switching the research, as obviously it wouldn't make any sense in the context.

And make the van even harder to get? Why do you hate the players so much? :P

I can't think of anything which could cause this... Try switching to another armour maybe?



I have tried all armours on the female hybrid all armors that cover the face and the juggernaut suit works and all that show the face and synth suit makes the game crash.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 04, 2020, 09:15:06 pm
I have tried all armours on the female hybrid all armors that cover the face and the juggernaut suit works and all that show the face and synth suit makes the game crash.

OK, please attach a save and tell me which agent it is (her name).
I think it's not a general bug, because many people would complain... But I'll investigate.

In other news, we have updated the X-Com Files website! http://thexcomfiles.xyz/index.html#MAIN
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Nakaraf on January 05, 2020, 12:35:40 am
OK, please attach a save and tell me which agent it is (her name).
I think it's not a general bug, because many people would complain... But I'll investigate.

In other news, we have updated the X-Com Files website! http://thexcomfiles.xyz/index.html#MAIN

Here is the requested savefile I have equiped all female hybrids with the working armors changing any of them to a armor that exposes ther faces cause crash. You may find them in the first base Named X-COM HQ in the Ironfist. All soldier have been market with ether Hy(brid) or Hu(man), M(ale) or F(emale).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 05, 2020, 12:31:33 pm
Here is the requested savefile I have equiped all female hybrids with the working armors changing any of them to a armor that exposes ther faces cause crash. You may find them in the first base Named X-COM HQ in the Ironfist. All soldier have been market with ether Hy(brid) or Hu(man), M(ale) or F(emale).

I checked the save and got no crashes.
Your OXCE version is quite old though. The mod should tell you this itself on launch.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Nakaraf on January 05, 2020, 07:54:27 pm
I checked the save and got no crashes.
Your OXCE version is quite old though. The mod should tell you this itself on launch.

I updated the OXCE to the latest version and.....that did the trick. ;D Thanks for figuring that one out. Now if you excuse me there are a few mutons that has yet to see Xcom's finest in action. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on January 08, 2020, 04:42:58 pm
A couple of ideas that probably would make the game harder a la x-piratez:

Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: RolandVasko on January 08, 2020, 05:55:15 pm
yap, for the cars (ground vehicles - all of kinds, - sportycar, van, humwee, tanks,  fightingAPC,..) there should, /would not be a whole big "hangar" (for aircrafts), but just only just garage! :o  -

- the Garage - room, of size  just 1x1 tiles

(well i admit i dont know if the size 1x1 is correct - i mean, garage SHWOULD be the same size as any other absically rooms, (armored vault, workplace, barracks, workshop,..)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on January 08, 2020, 07:32:19 pm
yap, for the cars (ground vehicles - all of kinds) there should, /would be not a whole big "hangar" (for aircrafts), but just only just garage! :o  -

- the Garage - room, of size  just 1x1

(well i admit i dont know if the size 1x1 is correct - i mean, garage swhould be the same size as any other absically rooms, (workplace, habitat..)

You aren't actually buying a car ingame "lore" (besides humvee probably). It's just representation due to engine limits that you can't move out on a mission without vessel. In terms of "Public Transport" your agents take stuff designed for this "vessel" to the airport, then they fly somewhere, then they rent a car and then they arrive at the mission.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on January 09, 2020, 09:15:24 am
You aren't actually buying a car ingame "lore" (besides humvee probably). It's just representation due to engine limits that you can't move out on a mission without vessel. In terms of "Public Transport" your agents take stuff designed for this "vessel" to the airport, then they fly somewhere, then they rent a car and then they arrive at the mission.

I know, alternatively may be intoduced a 1x1 facility (like ones featured in Etheral's mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5724.msg119911.html#msg119911)) named "garage" needed to have vehicles, while hangars are required for aircraft but don't know if it may be even possible due to the game engine
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Finnik on January 09, 2020, 05:31:50 pm
There is WIP feature of OXCE game engine that makes possible more than 1 hangar type for different crafts. When it will be implemented into OXCE some rebalance could be possible to imagine. We can only wish Yankes will have time for that, as its very complicated task
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: RolandVasko on January 10, 2020, 02:44:21 am
^^
btw..  ^^ "dehobbesation" :o :D :D ;D :D) :p lôl


..but, anyway - wouldn´t it (will not) it, the dehobbesationed mod, be then such ..naked & goale, (almost) empty ?  ? ?

(at least, what concerns the terrains tiles graphics, terrains maps and graphics.. )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on January 10, 2020, 11:58:52 am
Yes, there are many options. Osobist made some very nice firefighter sprites. We'll see when I have more time.

@Solarius: already discussed here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.3165.html) and actually i've foud only one mod so far tha contains them: it's the armed civilian one in the portal. (https://openxcom.mod.io/armed-civilians) Sadly there are no screenshots :( but the fighters are yellow, may be recoloured according to your taste/your national uniform one :D Spritesheet is attached anyway :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: robin on January 10, 2020, 09:43:38 pm
FYI that yellow firefighter is actually from my "From the Apocalypse" mod (it is actually not a firefighter but a "cargo guy"; I guess it can look like a firefighter of sorts too!).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 11, 2020, 02:43:17 pm
A couple of ideas that probably would make the game harder a la x-piratez:

The general consensus seems to be that XCF is are already harder than Piratez, but that's not somethign I would know. :)

xcom should start with only an experimental vehicle (as told in the ufopedia) - the mudranger - with somewhat limited range, and then research "transporst licence" to be able to buy a "trasport/public taxi licence"  (the actual "public/car"); while the "private car" may be renamed into "pickup" with three seats, i've posted one in the one in the graphic gallyery subforum (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5097.msg121709.html#msg121709), some recoloring may be needed thouugh. Once done that, modify the ufopedia and the ingame map pic et voilà.

Lot's of EXTREME deas here. Well, if I were to consider them, we'd need a lot of new options, because the current engine wouldn't support it in a playable form.

use a new tile for tha hangar that may look more like a garage, for example the oneused in the "from the apocalyps" mod by robin; only thingh is to modify a bit the hangar map and it's all god to go.

Hangars will probably get overhauled at saome point, as the engine grows - like Finnik said.

FYI that yellow firefighter is actually from my "From the Apocalypse" mod (it is actually not a firefighter but a "cargo guy"; I guess it can look like a firefighter of sorts too!).

Yep, I don't think anyone could miss that it's your sprite! It's very much your style, and it's awesome as always.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on January 15, 2020, 09:54:46 am
Dear Solarius,

I've made an alternative ppsh handob sprite because the one in the mod i find too high; alternatively i resized the current one, also please i'd be ver veryhappy you would like to replace the sten i made here (along with other guns, please consider to add? (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7693.msg120962.html#msg120962) with the one in the mod because the latter looks more like a sterling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_submachine_gun)

The new one is in .gif format
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: mercy on January 15, 2020, 11:21:59 pm
Nice job, man!
I'm eagerly watching your MOD and waiting for completion when it reaches:
Shogg: 100%
Cult of Apocalypse: 100%
Men in Black: 100%
Black Sun: 100%
[classified]: 100%
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Fiskun1 on January 16, 2020, 04:29:42 pm
mercy:

Are you going to live forever?  ;)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on January 16, 2020, 05:34:13 pm
Man that readiness factor. I was about to succesfully end a very difficult medium ufo that has touched down, with only 3-4 moderate to elite agents lost. Until my remaining squad start to flip out and the remaining two sectoids easily pick them out one by one, resulting in my whole craft with awesome latest technology that also cost loads of dollars being destroyed. Readiness makes the game a lot harder, especially since I can't bring just all of my elite soldiers because half of them have very low psi strength and sectoids easily control them so I have to bring rookies with low readiness. It seems I will eventually have to start yet AGAIN lol.

I advise everyone to erase the gyms from their games btw. Really makes the game a hardcore one, which makes it tons of more fun. I don't like them because rookies just become super soldiers without getting on to the field once, some even surpassing my elite experienced soldiers who have cheated death many times. Though I am only playing in veteran, maybe it will make the game impossible on harder levels.


Nice job, man!
I'm eagerly watching your MOD and waiting for completion when it reaches:
Shogg: 100%
Cult of Apocalypse: 100%
Men in Black: 100%
Black Sun: 100%
[classified]: 100%

If you have not started playing yet, I advise you to start to get used to the mechanics of the mod. There is already an incredible amount of content and most likely you will fully master the mechanics and gameplay at the time those are completed 100%. I have already got my ass kicked twice at the time of the invasion and will probably restart. Though of course it is up to your playing preferences in the end.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: mercy on January 16, 2020, 06:04:13 pm
mercy:

Are you going to live forever?  ;)
I'm seriously considering posting jobs here for graphics artists to create all tiles to replace all content from Hobbes. Similar-purpose content - environment graphics - to be re-created in the same quality as Master Hobbes did it or possibly better, placed into maps with the new content fully functioning, just like it was before current hysterical situation.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 16, 2020, 07:43:01 pm
Dear Solarius,

I've made an alternative ppsh handob sprite because the one in the mod i find too high; alternatively i resized the current one, also please i'd be ver veryhappy you would like to replace the sten i made here (along with other guns, please consider to add? (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7693.msg120962.html#msg120962) with the one in the mod because the latter looks more like a sterling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_submachine_gun)

The new one is in .gif format

I don't think it looks that better, it's kinda big. Also please use the right palette, it's pretty hard to do it afterwards.

Nice job, man!
I'm eagerly watching your MOD and waiting for completion when it reaches:
Shogg: 100%
Cult of Apocalypse: 100%
Men in Black: 100%
Black Sun: 100%
[classified]: 100%

I am working on that, of course :)

I'm seriously considering posting jobs here for graphics artists to create all tiles to replace all content from Hobbes. Similar-purpose content - environment graphics - to be re-created in the same quality as Master Hobbes did it or possibly better, placed into maps with the new content fully functioning, just like it was before current hysterical situation.

Good to hear, since we are already making progress on this front with Finnik. Soon we will publish the first release of a brand new urban terrain and we will be very happy if people contribute.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on January 19, 2020, 05:25:22 am
My game crashes when I am trying to start a ufo crash which was downed by an army of a country. Want me to send the save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Meridian on January 19, 2020, 09:26:16 am
yes
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on January 21, 2020, 05:09:48 pm
Here you go.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Meridian on January 21, 2020, 05:30:11 pm
Here you go.

Doesn't crash for me.

Can you attach a log file after the crash?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on January 21, 2020, 07:20:34 pm
Doesn't crash for me.

Can you attach a log file after the crash?

Interesting. It says savannaforest not found, it is like I don't have the map file but you do?

Here is the log file.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on January 24, 2020, 10:28:18 am
I don't think it looks that better, it's kinda big. Also please use the right palette, it's pretty hard to do it afterwards.

Here it is, hope you gonna like it, along a hoe, a fire hatchect,an MK3 grenade, an M72 Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW) along a colt M$, please let me know about the palette  ;)

Edit: added a Smith & Wesson model 10, as featured in the second season of the telefilm. (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/X-Files,_The_-_Season_2)

Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 25, 2020, 01:00:35 pm
Interesting. It says savannaforest not found, it is like I don't have the map file but you do?

Here is the log file.

This terrain indeed doesn't exist, but I don't know why the game is trying to use it.

I recommend skipping the mission and if it ever happens again, reinstalling the mod.

Here it is, hope you gonna like it (...)

Thanks, some are promising, other are simply too big.

Also like discussed before, in the future please don't paletize them - I prefer to do it myself rather than convert back to RGB and then to the proper palette... Unless you have the good palette already.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: misterx on January 25, 2020, 04:23:38 pm
Thanks, some are promising, other are simply too big.

Also like discussed before, in the future please don't paletize them - I prefer to do it myself rather than convert back to RGB and then to the proper palette... Unless you have the good palette already.

ok, just applied oxce palette, for detsils please PM me, othereise gonna post these in a "raw" format  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: HT on January 25, 2020, 06:48:44 pm
I've been checking the github thread, and it seems the next release will make the mod a Master one. That's cool and makes it easier to use in one hand, but it will also break all compatibility it had with previous mods and those that affected the regular UFO game as well. Is there a way to make the mod back to a "non-Master" state to not to break the mods you're using for XCF? Ie: Recruitment Office, Smaller Rockets, Fire Blanket, etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Meridian on January 25, 2020, 07:05:49 pm
Correct action is to change those custom XCF mods to require XCF as master (instead of xcom1).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 26, 2020, 11:12:05 am
The move to master mod was because I couldn't find a clear way to prevent people from misusing xcom1 mods with XCF, which isn't compatible with them. So now a submod must be either defined to work with XCF (and not xcom1) or defined to work with any master mod (xcom1, xcom2, XCF, Piratez, etc.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: BlackStaff on January 26, 2020, 11:51:31 am
The move to master mod was because I couldn't find a clear way to prevent people from misusing xcom1 mods with XCF, which isn't compatible with them. So now a submod must be either defined to work with XCF (and not xcom1) or defined to work with any master mod (xcom1, xcom2, XCF, Piratez, etc.)
Sorry, but are you also talking about extensions like these that are embedded in the "standard" folder :
- Aliens_Pick_Up_Weapons
- UFOextender_Psionic_Line_Of_Fire
- ...

They won't work anymore either?  :-[
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: HT on January 27, 2020, 12:01:46 am
Correct action is to change those custom XCF mods to require XCF as master (instead of xcom1).

How would you do that? Adding a medatada file that specifically mentions XCF as the master mod? What about those mods that were compatible with x-com 1 but also worked for X-Files (such as the Fire Blanket one)? Would that trick work?
Could it be possible to simply "undo" the master status on the XCF mod to be less of a hassle?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on January 27, 2020, 12:50:44 pm
Is there some kind of cheat to win a mission or kill all enemies in the map? Because I'm in a Cyberweb army attack mission, a couple of cyborgs seem to have spawned in a place inaccessible, even by explosives.

Well it seems I can reach them with 6 high explosives but my soldiers flip out by the time I prepare the bombs due to depleted readiness, so if there is anyway to modify their readiness or morale that could work too I guess. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 28, 2020, 01:05:51 am
Sorry, but are you also talking about extensions like these that are embedded in the "standard" folder :
- Aliens_Pick_Up_Weapons
- UFOextender_Psionic_Line_Of_Fire
- ...

They won't work anymore either?  :-[

They never really worked with XCF, which is something I couldn't get through to you numbskulls, which in the end resulted in this change. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: justaround on January 28, 2020, 04:43:02 pm
Is there some kind of cheat to win a mission or kill all enemies in the map? Because I'm in a Cyberweb army attack mission, a couple of cyborgs seem to have spawned in a place inaccessible, even by explosives.
I recall there being dev commands that allow stuff like making whole map visible and moving units around. Once or twice in some earlier version I had to use that myself when caves in X-Com Files spawned with portions of them inaccessible/disconnected but with enemies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 28, 2020, 05:10:16 pm
And I'm interested in those spawns, they should not happen in the first place. Do you have a save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: the nomad on January 28, 2020, 08:04:00 pm
I recall there being dev commands that allow stuff like making whole map visible and moving units around. Once or twice in some earlier version I had to use that myself when caves in X-Com Files spawned with portions of them inaccessible/disconnected but with enemies.

I eventually managed to complete with a lot of loads but I will look for it if happens again, thanks.

And I'm interested in those spawns, they should not happen in the first place. Do you have a save?

There is one after I used a couple of high explosives, here it is.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Spiralize on January 31, 2020, 02:20:46 am
This terrain indeed doesn't exist, but I don't know why the game is trying to use it.

I recommend skipping the mission and if it ever happens again, reinstalling the mod.

Having a similar issue to the nomad here. Game crashes while looking for a "SAVANNAPOLAR" terrain file when generating a ufo crash site in heavily forested terrain.

Some interesting details; there actually is a SAVANNAPOLAR file for all three terrain file extensions in my mod's TERRAIN folder (as well as a SAVANNAPOLARBITS file), despite the fact that those don't exist in a freshly downloaded 1.1.2 version and I thought I was already on 1.1.2. IDK, it's probably just there from some previous version or something and I need to do a clean install. Still, here's the save file in case you want to look at it. Let skyranger 3 finish traveling to crash site 4 and the error should reproduce on mission start, assuming it's not just my terrible file hygiene that's to blame.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 02, 2020, 07:29:34 pm
Yes there are such terrain files, but it is not really related. This terrain was removed as a part of the Terrain Pack and these files are unused; they should not be there.

I've examined this issue before and found no problems. Just reinstall everything. If the problem persists, please let me know.

BTW I'd gladly publish 1.2, but still waiting for the translations...


EDIT: version 1.2 has been released.

- The mod is Master now.
- New craft: Kitsune-106.
- New Dossier: Dr. Hadriex.
- New mission: Hell Cruise with Dr. Hadriex.
- New units: Dr. Hadriex, Cultist of Spirits, Ancient Sea Ghost.
- New items: Hadriex Gun, Webwear.
- New faction: Children of Aether (logo by Arvidus).
- 6 new events, by Sherris (with minor adjustments).
- New staff input.
- New terrain: Urban Low (by Finnik & Solarius Scorch).
- New Alien Base mapblocks (by Civilian).
- Improved routes on Port TFTD.
- New Spikeboar inventory picture (by Nord).
- New craft system: Fuel Tank.
- MiB base no longer causes point loss.
- Rebalanced Power Mace.
- Psiclone now works like a melee weapon (X-Com Psiclone no longer required and removed).
- Plasma Grenade is now actually plasma.
- Cheaper Pump Action.
- Smartgun now has uniform Auto and Snap range.
- Pepper spray now counts for the Incapacitator commendation.
- Limited Ethereal race research paths.
- Special spiders made more common.
- Fixed Alien Key disappearing on non-related missions.
- Fixed Smart Shotgun Ammo not needing Tritanium.
- Fixed the unblocked free hand on the Flying Drone.
- Minor fixes.


The first point requires a bit of explanation. From now on, the X-Com Files are no longer a normal mod, but a master mod. This means that from the player's point of view, it is now considered a separate X-Com game, just like Piratez. Therefore, instead of enabling it normally, now you need to switch to it just in the same way you would switch from UFO (X-Com 1) to TFTD:

(https://i.imgur.com/oYlMh5p.png)

Secondly, if you want to continue a campaign from a previous version, you need to find your xcom1 folder (the one where saves, screenshots and configs are) and rename it to x-com-files.
(On the first launch after this conversion, the game will warn you that there some mods are missing; you can safely ignore this.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on February 04, 2020, 06:22:07 am
The mod is Master now.

Some standart mods are unavailable now... TFTD damage model, for example. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 04, 2020, 07:29:06 pm
Some standart mods are unavailable now... TFTD damage model, for example. ;)

Which was the whole bloody point, as explained before ad nauseam.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.1: Big Rain
Post by: X-Man on February 04, 2020, 07:49:36 pm
Which was the whole bloody point, as explained before ad nauseam.

Why and where?  ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Mathel on February 04, 2020, 09:15:21 pm
Why: Not really compatible.

Where:
They never really worked with XCF, which is something I couldn't get through to you numbskulls, which in the end resulted in this change. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on February 05, 2020, 07:33:36 am
Why: Not really compatible.

Where:

Thanks.
TFTD damage model works fine, it makes battles lesser chaotic... Too sad it is unavailable now. :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: BlackStaff on February 05, 2020, 11:53:57 am
TFTD damage model works fine, it makes battles lesser chaotic... Too sad it is unavailable now.
If you can't live without this mod... have you tried it by modifying his "master:" line in his metadata?  :-X
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 05, 2020, 04:13:20 pm
Why on Earth would I want to allow to wreck the entire balance? Do you think these values and formulas are random button mashing?  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: misterx on February 05, 2020, 05:02:53 pm
Well, the final version might be princes of the universe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ8lpCQbyw)?  :-*

Jokes aside, may you appreciate to add a Sa vz 23 to the red dawn arsenal? Some more stuff for the countries of the Eastern Bloc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc). A sample is attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: BlackStaff on February 05, 2020, 07:51:17 pm
Why on Earth would I want to allow to wreck the entire balance? Do you think these values and formulas are random button mashing?
I agree!
I'm already having enough problems with your data so I'm not going to create more by modifying the firepower...  ;)  8)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: the nomad on February 06, 2020, 09:44:20 am
Is there any good tactic against the grenades at Hybrid clinics? My soldiers are always wide apart and in cover but it seems like whenever they spot me they immediately toss a grenade which is near certain fatal. One of them even threw a grenade at one soldier just three tiles of him inside a room in the clinic. Kinda spammy to be honest. I can't find a way to complete them without 5-6 of my elites dead.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on February 06, 2020, 11:27:49 am
to wreck the entire balance?

Sorry, but it changes the balance at some points (both to positive and negative for player and enemy). No wreckage there.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on February 06, 2020, 12:56:39 pm
Is there any good tactic against the grenades at Hybrid clinics? My soldiers are always wide apart and in cover but it seems like whenever they spot me they immediately toss a grenade which is near certain fatal. One of them even threw a grenade at one soldier just three tiles of him inside a room in the clinic. Kinda spammy to be honest. I can't find a way to complete them without 5-6 of my elites dead.
always try to stay in cover. and just engage from high range, they can't throw that far.
Granted, you won't hit much from across half the map, but that just means you gotta shoot more  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 06, 2020, 11:18:15 pm
Sorry, but it changes the balance at some points (both to positive and negative for player and enemy). No wreckage there.

Sorry but you don't seem to understand... ;)

This goes way further than simple symmetry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on February 07, 2020, 06:40:14 am
Sorry but you don't seem to understand... ;)

This goes way further than simple symmetry.

Some weapon has its own damage model (grenades, plasma weps, staves, etc), which unchangeable by TFDT dmg model. Seems like the things that should be constant in the mod are made constant initially. ;)

..but ok, I'm not gonna start a discussion about it. You are the boss, it is your decision.  :)
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: the nomad on February 07, 2020, 11:16:46 am
always try to stay in cover. and just engage from high range, they can't throw that far.
Granted, you won't hit much from across half the map, but that just means you gotta shoot more  ;)

I am okay with that :) I guess I assumed they would not throw a grenade to an alone soldier. Putting my soldiers back definitely helped. Also a tank helped, I sent it just forward and they concentrated on it as I used grenades and snipers from far away.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: betatester on February 07, 2020, 12:52:08 pm
I am okay with that :) I guess I assumed they would not throw a grenade to an alone soldier. Putting my soldiers back definitely helped. Also a tank helped, I sent it just forward and they concentrated on it as I used grenades and snipers from far away.
Do you use heavy tritanium armor or cyber armor it should help too.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on February 07, 2020, 02:32:03 pm
Do you use heavy tritanium armor or cyber armor it should help too.
once you´re that far it doesn't matter much anymore, since they pretty much can't kill you anymore in that armor...
Until you have that, go for range. Sniper. Rocket launchers. Or miniguns... just level the whole map from afar ;)
(I´ve had great results with miniguns/scatter blaster in clinic missions. Aim at someone, remove half the walls of the clinic with it, removes cover for all others...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 07, 2020, 04:47:48 pm
Some weapon has its own damage model (grenades, plasma weps, staves, etc), which unchangeable by TFDT dmg model. Seems like the things that should be constant in the mod are made constant initially. ;)

..but ok, I'm not gonna start a discussion about it. You are the boss, it is your decision.  :)

Sorry if my post was kinda dry, I just can't explain it in a concise way. Many units are fine tuned for the samage model, and there are important reasons behind different damage rolls for various weapons.
Also, I find the TFTD model pretty yucky from the simulation point of view. Bullet injuries don't work like that on people.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: betatester on February 07, 2020, 04:52:59 pm
On previous version I have found this bug
Just go through the door behind with the selected soldier it works without opening it
EDiT: sorry wrong topic
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 08, 2020, 01:47:30 pm
On previous version I have found this bug
Just go through the door behind with the selected soldier it works without opening it
EDiT: sorry wrong topic

You're right, but I can't explain this. When I generate a map and test this part, it works fine. All the files are also fine. Also, all these files are 3 to 5 years old.
I have no idea how you did this XD
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: the nomad on February 09, 2020, 01:01:26 pm
Do you use heavy tritanium armor or cyber armor it should help too.

I have the tritanium armor on my elites but they are not that effective against plasma grenades or whatever they are throwing at me, haven't researched it yet. They sometimes protect but lots of the times it is a direct kill especially when the bomb is right beneath my feet. Don't know about cyber armor though.

Yeah I agree, minigun scatter help a lot!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: the nomad on February 09, 2020, 04:46:12 pm
I have never paid attention to it, but according to game mechanics are enemies who have both hands full able to put one of their items in backpack and throw a grenade? Let's say one holds a laser pistol and a knife and have a grenade in pocket, can they use it? Because if not, one-handed guys would be the priority.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 09, 2020, 08:13:41 pm
I have never paid attention to it, but according to game mechanics are enemies who have both hands full able to put one of their items in backpack and throw a grenade? Let's say one holds a laser pistol and a knife and have a grenade in pocket, can they use it? Because if not, one-handed guys would be the priority.

Yes, they can do that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: zoli on February 13, 2020, 06:29:19 pm
Quote from: Science Laboratory Ufopaedia entry
Throwing more scientists at a problem becomes pointless after a certain point, so it is senseless to build more than a single facility of this type per base.
Is this only about the 1 Lab/base limit? Are there any special formulas on research mechanics? I know that reports are always finished at midnight so it doesn't make sense to assign many researchers to short research topics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 13, 2020, 07:27:50 pm
Is this only about the 1 Lab/base limit? Are there any special formulas on research mechanics? I know that reports are always finished at midnight so it doesn't make sense to assign many researchers to short research topics.

This quote refers only to the 1/base thing. There are no special formulas between different types of labs or anything like that.
And yes, the most efficient yield from scientists is to only put 1 on each project. But efficiency doesn't equal practicality. (Or even sanity.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: HT on February 16, 2020, 05:37:36 pm
Note though that researching the same topic in different bases won't do anything, it's a shame but that's how the game is coded.

Speaking of, peering at the github changes, I noticed an important change is incoming. Spoilering this just in case.

Rubber bullets, at fucking long last! Alas, they only work with the regular shotgun at the moment, not for the Black-ops Shotgun, despite being identical and only slightly more precise. Why is that? Shouldn't these non-lethal rounds be compatible to some degree?
Granted, it's a work-around until you unlock dart guns and better stuff, but still, it would be better if the black-ops shotgun can also use rubber bullets IMO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 16, 2020, 06:22:28 pm
Dunno, I guess both shotguns would be fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: HT on February 17, 2020, 12:10:15 am
Thanks! I hope you do so.
Have you considered future non-lethal devices for the future, or will that be all for the future? In Piratez there's a mod with foam grenades.
In any case: Are humanoid chassis ala Terminator for AI Units still a thing? What about cyborgs? I wonder what are you planning you next.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Ridley on February 21, 2020, 09:45:06 am
Hi, loving this mod! Just had a question, is relocating base facilities a thing? I saw in some other threads that it's a feature of extended via ctrl left click over a facility, but it's not working for me (nothing happens when I ctrl left click the facility). The other features work fine however so I'm assuming it's not enabled, or perhaps a different keybind?

Thanks for any help :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2020, 11:28:41 am
Thanks! I hope you do so.

I have already. :)

Have you considered future non-lethal devices for the future, or will that be all for the future? In Piratez there's a mod with foam grenades.

No specific plans yet.

In any case: Are humanoid chassis ala Terminator for AI Units still a thing? What about cyborgs? I wonder what are you planning you next.

Yes, I want to add the Enforcer chassis.

Hi, loving this mod! Just had a question, is relocating base facilities a thing? I saw in some other threads that it's a feature of extended via ctrl left click over a facility, but it's not working for me (nothing happens when I ctrl left click the facility). The other features work fine however so I'm assuming it's not enabled, or perhaps a different keybind?

Thanks for any help :)

Welcome and thanks!

No, this option was removed from OXCE. Not even related to this mod, though I approve of this decision.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Ridley on February 21, 2020, 01:46:14 pm
I have already. :)

No specific plans yet.

Yes, I want  ;Dto add the Enforcer chassis.

Welcome and thanks!

No, this option was removed from OXCE. Not even related to this mod, though I approve of this decision.

Ah I thought that may be the case. Im sorry, I know it wasnt a feature of this mod but thought maybe this mod disabled it or something, and was having trouble finding information about it. I will just dismantle and rebuild in this case :P

Thank you for the clarification :). And great work! This mod is really fun especially when you get the heavy tritanium armor, walking through cultist gunfire like the terminator  :D Im only just about to enter the 3rd year so im looking forward to fighting aliens. Already shot down some scouts
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 21, 2020, 02:08:18 pm
Totally agreed on the heavy tritanium armour! :)
Good hunting!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Mathel on February 23, 2020, 06:08:54 pm
Hi.
I have been thinking about an aspect of the XCF.
If I understand it correctly, one of X-Com's mission objectives is keeping the whole monsters/cults/aliens thing secret from the general population.
At the start of the game, there are cults, sometimes monsters. Cults could be kept secret easily enough, monsters only if they do not terrorise a city.

But there comes a point, where X-Com engages in open fire-fights with aliens across farms, forests, etc. These places tend to be free of civilians, but the easy explanation for that is, that they ran away from the landing/crashing UFO.

The point is, by 2001, pretty much the whole population would know that there are aliens and that there is someone fighting them.

So how about introducing 2 research topics.
I. The Masquerade
         Time: Very short (2)
         Dependancies: None
         Building: Intelligence center
         Points: 0
                 This would tell the player about the next topic and allow them to research it.

II. End the Masquerade
         Time: Very short (2)
         Dependancies: The Masquerade
         Building: Intelligence center
         Points: -10000
         "We revealed our existence to the general population. The council hates this, but it means we can now recruit proper soldiers and we will not be blamed for someone accidentaly stumbling on the secret."

Researching the second one would end Concerned Citizen missions, End events of the like "Someone found a weird fish, -100 points" and allow recruiting soldiers with boosted minimal starting stats.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 23, 2020, 06:48:40 pm
It's an interesting idea, but right now I don't plan on moving in that direction. I realize the masquerade is getting thinner with every month, but it's kinda the plot point: no matter what happens, the Council will never allow its abolishment. (Which is partially why it has so many enemies.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: eXalted on February 24, 2020, 01:17:49 am
X-Com Files is the first X-Com mod that I ever play and I'm just astonished at the things that I have missed until now. It's just so... fresh. I just wanted to say how great it is! Keep up the good work!

A quick question out of curiosity - does lighting have any impact on the alien vision? For example does it make a difference if my soldier is lighted by a fire or if he is hiding in the dark of the night?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Vangrimar1 on February 24, 2020, 09:53:01 am
Hi.
I have been thinking about an aspect of the XCF.
If I understand it correctly, one of X-Com's mission objectives is keeping the whole monsters/cults/aliens thing secret from the general population.
At the start of the game, there are cults, sometimes monsters. Cults could be kept secret easily enough, monsters only if they do not terrorise a city.

But there comes a point, where X-Com engages in open fire-fights with aliens across farms, forests, etc. These places tend to be free of civilians, but the easy explanation for that is, that they ran away from the landing/crashing UFO.

The point is, by 2001, pretty much the whole population would know that there are aliens and that there is someone fighting them.

So how about introducing 2 research topics.
I. The Masquerade
         Time: Very short (2)
         Dependancies: None
         Building: Intelligence center
         Points: 0
                 This would tell the player about the next topic and allow them to research it.

II. End the Masquerade
         Time: Very short (2)
         Dependancies: The Masquerade
         Building: Intelligence center
         Points: -10000
         "We revealed our existence to the general population. The council hates this, but it means we can now recruit proper soldiers and we will not be blamed for someone accidentaly stumbling on the secret."

Researching the second one would end Concerned Citizen missions, End events of the like "Someone found a weird fish, -100 points" and allow recruiting soldiers with boosted minimal starting stats.

Interesting idea. I would suggest the option of converting X-Com forces into resistance. For example, we must defeat the aliens by a certain year, then the council stops financing X-Com and the planet passes under the control of aliens. The remaining X-Com soldiers are forced to hide and lead a guerrilla war. Like in X-Com 2.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2020, 10:39:38 am
X-Com Files is the first X-Com mod that I ever play and I'm just astonished at the things that I have missed until now. It's just so... fresh. I just wanted to say how great it is! Keep up the good work!

Thank you!

A quick question out of curiosity - does lighting have any impact on the alien vision? For example does it make a difference if my soldier is lighted by a fire or if he is hiding in the dark of the night?

Yes, it makes a whole lot of difference. In light you are visible, in darkness you are not (except from up close). There are also various levels of night vision and camouflage, and some creatures don't even use sight at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on February 26, 2020, 10:25:57 pm
Hello. The idea of a Black Sun is very interesting. I understand that they will be opponents, but will it be possible to get their armor? I really like the appearance of a soldier of this faction. After all, People in Black can be stripped of their armor. I would like to have this opportunity.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Fiskun1 on February 27, 2020, 11:44:47 am
Hello! When is the new version of my favorite mod expected?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 29, 2020, 01:10:58 pm
Hello. The idea of a Black Sun is very interesting. I understand that they will be opponents, but will it be possible to get their armor? I really like the appearance of a soldier of this faction. After all, People in Black can be stripped of their armor. I would like to have this opportunity.

OK, I'll think about that if Black Sun becomes more popular. (Of course they have the best designs, as always. ;) )

Hello! When is the new version of my favorite mod expected?

Just use the GitHub version and you'll have a new release almost every day! ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: eXalted on February 29, 2020, 07:14:53 pm
Just use the GitHub version and you'll have a new release almost every day! ;)
Is it safe to do this mid-game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 01, 2020, 06:19:35 pm
Is it safe to do this mid-game?

Usually yes.

EDIT: Some interesting screenshots from the upcoming release!

(https://i.imgur.com/nu3AIVi.png)

(https://imgur.com/fb4Stc3.png)

(https://imgur.com/DU5HVkI.png)

(https://imgur.com/X5Ff7kw.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 01, 2020, 09:55:32 pm
Do you have any plans to add manned combat vehicles to the game so that it is controlled by a fighter and not an AI? An analog of the sectopod, only created by humans. Reassembling a sectopod is cool, but people can't come up with something of their own, based on alien technology, like it's done with interceptors? That would be very interesting. I would also like to see the appearance of tritanium tanks, because we can make armor and weapons from this material.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 02, 2020, 11:36:16 am
Do you mean powered armours? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: HT on March 02, 2020, 03:02:29 pm
Hell yes! Flamers for tanks! Are they of the "does actual damage besides 1-20 points over-time" variety, or the standard "big range, minimal damage every turn"? I don't remember if there was a way to tell if a flame-type weapon was capable of doing severe damage or not. Was it mentioned in the debug mode of the item in question?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Mathel on March 02, 2020, 05:10:43 pm
Hell yes! Flamers for tanks! Are they of the "does actual damage besides 1-20 points over-time" variety, or the standard "big range, minimal damage every turn"? I don't remember if there was a way to tell if a flame-type weapon was capable of doing severe damage or not. Was it mentioned in the debug mode of the item in question?
It is based on the RandomType variable.
Quote from: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#Item_Damage_Types
RandomType   Defines how will be dice be rolled to determine damage based on power (primary damage calculation). Possible options:
0 = default vanilla behavior dependent on damageType
1 = 0-200% spread
2 = 50-150% spread
3 = flat damage equal to power
4 = random damage in range defined by fireDamageRange
5 = no damage
6 = 0-200% spread (2 dice roll), i.e. 0-100% + 0-100%
7 = 50-200% spread

If the RandomType is 4, the splash is weak (Like starting your turn in fire). If 5, it does nothing (I do not know what this is for. Script based weapons, perhaps?). If anything else, it is based on the weapon's power.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 02, 2020, 08:01:30 pm
No, I meant a combat robot, inside which a person sits and controls it(if this is possible to implement) . The robot has a built-in air cannon in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other. The size of a sectopod, 2x2. The robot is made of alien alloys, taking into account the research of the sectopod. It has more armor, a good guidance system, a good reaction(based on alien technology), but very poor mobility, for balance. And is far away in the research branch so that the player gets it in a late game. In fact, when we explore the latest interceptors, we can shoot down all the UFOs without problems, and this robot would give the opportunity not to be afraid so much of enemy tanks and sectopods, the player would be more confident in their armored vehicles that they will not break from a single shot of a laser tank.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Alex_D on March 03, 2020, 04:27:45 pm
@ Solarius
As discussed, my current campaign for your review.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: otheiv on March 07, 2020, 06:39:17 pm
Enforcer: This humanoid chassis for AI units
By this principle, it is possible to make armor similar to JARHEAD_MASHINOBI for missions undercover. Or even produce from SYNTHMUSCLES. Having technology of neural interfaces and technology of disguise of the Advent.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 08, 2020, 01:21:52 am
On random events:
Its 7th jan 97 and I´ve already lost 166 score to 2 random events.
Is that just *really* bad luck or is that supposed to be a normal frequency?

EDIT: oh the day was not even over. another -100 before midnight... srsly? How am i supposed to keep up with that in terms of score?
Or did i accidentally download the version that was "specially crafted" for hobbes... >_>

EDIT 2: aaaand another -83 still in til 27th jan. All missions yet went perfect, but no way i can keep up with those losses...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on March 08, 2020, 10:24:47 am
Or did i accidentally download the version that was "specially crafted" for hobbes... >_>

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 08, 2020, 01:31:13 pm
No, I meant a combat robot, inside which a person sits and controls it(if this is possible to implement) . The robot has a built-in air cannon in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other. The size of a sectopod, 2x2. The robot is made of alien alloys, taking into account the research of the sectopod. It has more armor, a good guidance system, a good reaction(based on alien technology), but very poor mobility, for balance. And is far away in the research branch so that the player gets it in a late game. In fact, when we explore the latest interceptors, we can shoot down all the UFOs without problems, and this robot would give the opportunity not to be afraid so much of enemy tanks and sectopods, the player would be more confident in their armored vehicles that they will not break from a single shot of a laser tank.

Yeah, it's possible - it's just a 2x2 armour. If I ever have appropriate sprites, I can add something like it. For now, it's a domain of AIs.

@ Solarius
As discussed, my current campaign for your review.

Thanks. Now what was that I wanted to investigate...? :-\

On random events:
Its 7th jan 97 and I´ve already lost 166 score to 2 random events.
Is that just *really* bad luck or is that supposed to be a normal frequency?
(...)

Sounds like really bad luck... As in, never seen bad luck :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Alex_D on March 08, 2020, 09:55:01 pm
Thanks. Now what was that I wanted to investigate...? :-\
It was the reason on why there was not much progress in the late campaign :-) You responded, I think, in the Discord channel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 10, 2020, 07:06:04 pm
Hello. I would like to know when there will be a continuation of the story with people in black?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 10, 2020, 09:14:16 pm
Hello. I would like to know when there will be a continuation of the story with people in black?

Yes, of course! Them and the hybrids are the two most important opponent forces on Earth.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 10, 2020, 10:42:46 pm
I would also like to ask you to add missions to the game, where Xcom operates in conjunction with the army. I know that there is an event when the military shoot down UFOs, but I want more global battles, for example, when aliens conduct terror,then 1 allied tank and 10 soldiers who are fighting together with Xcom appear on the map. Just a feeling that the troops do not participate in the defense of the planet at all, do not protect civilians, and only 30 XCOM agents save the whole world. The lack of troops is clear at the initial stage of the game, they say, everything is just beginning and the world is not threatened, but when a full-scale invasion begins, the question arises, where is the army? Battles involving allies are very cool, it feels like you really got on the battlefield, you feel the scale of the battle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 10, 2020, 10:56:20 pm
I would also like to ask you to add missions to the game, where Xcom operates in conjunction with the army. I know that there is an event when the military shoot down UFOs, but I want more global battles, for example, when aliens conduct terror,then 1 allied tank and 10 soldiers who are fighting together with Xcom appear on the map.

OK, more missions with soldiers sound fun. No promises, as I need good ideas and a space to put them in, but I am not against it.

Just a feeling that the troops do not participate in the defense of the planet at all, do not protect civilians, and only 30 XCOM agents save the whole world. The lack of troops is clear at the initial stage of the game, they say, everything is just beginning and the world is not threatened, but when a full-scale invasion begins, the question arises, where is the army? Battles involving allies are very cool, it feels like you really got on the battlefield, you feel the scale of the battle.

Well, frankly there is never an official "full scale invasion", as everything is done more or less in secrecy. Of course the disguise is becoming pretty thin once cities around the world start suffering from inexplicable "gas leaks", but the army generally remains in the dark, or X-Com wouldn't be needed any more.

In other news, check out the new dog paperdoll! Made with some help from Perekrylo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 10, 2020, 11:22:15 pm
It seemed to me that in 1999 the Battle for Earth begins, cities are on fire, people are in a panic, and the secrecy of the war with aliens is no longer there. I just played Xcom Enemy Within, and I thought something similar would happen in 1999.There, the world knew about the war with aliens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 10, 2020, 11:25:19 pm
A dog without armor will be deprived of inventory?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: RolandVasko on March 11, 2020, 12:23:49 am
dog looks cute :)

(but what is that few red pixels on his,/her nose? ? )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: WaldoTheRanger on March 11, 2020, 05:17:10 am
(but what is that few red pixels on his,/her nose? ? )
Yeah, most dogs have black or brown noses.

But I agree it looks great. I'll feel a lot worse getting that killed now :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on March 11, 2020, 07:22:39 am
Quote
In other news, check out the new dog paperdoll! Made with some help from Perekrylo.

Hmm... As for me, Wolfenstein's dog sprite looks better, like a true battle dog. A new one is kinda home pet.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 11, 2020, 07:21:45 pm
It seemed to me that in 1999 the Battle for Earth begins, cities are on fire, people are in a panic, and the secrecy of the war with aliens is no longer there. I just played Xcom Enemy Within, and I thought something similar would happen in 1999.There, the world knew about the war with aliens.

No, old X-Com is like, totally opposite. Even vanilla, though it didn't really explore it much.

A dog without armor will be deprived of inventory?

Nothing has changed here, it's only a new graphics.
...Then again, perhaps you're right. :o

dog looks cute :)

(but what is that few red pixels on his,/her nose? ? )

Palette limitation... Maybe it can be done a bit better.

Hmm... As for me, Wolfenstein's dog sprite looks better, like a true battle dog. A new one is kinda home pet.  :)

I didn't want to constantly see my own dogs attacking me with berserker rage... Also in the base. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on March 12, 2020, 06:33:01 am
I didn't want to constantly see my own dogs attacking me with berserker rage... Also in the base. :P

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ddvj5htV4AAwvXI.png)
(https://zeleniymir.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Nemeczkaya-ovcharka-58.jpg)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: RolandVasko on March 12, 2020, 07:27:19 am
~~^^

https://pics.me.me/imagine-fleeing-and-you-hear-fetch-me-his-soul-lucifer-59850514.png
(https://pics.me.me/imagine-fleeing-and-you-hear-fetch-me-his-soul-lucifer-59850514.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 12, 2020, 03:41:04 pm
I would like to suggest an idea. What if we add the possibility of producing a stun bomb from alien gardens? When exploring alien gardens, we are told that the aliens make chemicals from them for their weapons. You can get the technology to produce these chemicals when you interrogate an alien medic. After that, the player gets the opportunity to process the gardens into chemicals that make chemical weapons, for example, as I have already suggested, a paralyzing bomb.Also, why not add an acid grenade to the game that would be used by aliens and then the player? It would also be made from chemicals.The branch of chemical weapons technologies can be well developed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 12, 2020, 07:48:35 pm
I would like to suggest an idea. What if we add the possibility of producing a stun bomb from alien gardens? When exploring alien gardens, we are told that the aliens make chemicals from them for their weapons. You can get the technology to produce these chemicals when you interrogate an alien medic. After that, the player gets the opportunity to process the gardens into chemicals that make chemical weapons, for example, as I have already suggested, a paralyzing bomb.Also, why not add an acid grenade to the game that would be used by aliens and then the player? It would also be made from chemicals.The branch of chemical weapons technologies can be well developed.

The problem is, alien gardens don't make stun bombs directly - they produce a large variety of advanced extraterrestrial chemicals which can be used for countless purposes. I get your point, and it would be nice to develop the chem tree better, but it's a fairly challenging problem. Maybe later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 13, 2020, 01:15:19 am
Pistols are will way too accurate on long range.
Insanely OP too accurate.
Like, shooting guys >30 tiles distance at more than 50-60% hit rate (no maxed out super soldiers, still first half year), at those low TU costs... why bother for rifles or even sniper stuff.
imo pistols should loose accuracy severly at more than 10-15 tiles.
Pistols are good to quickly empty a magazine into someone at low-moderate distance. And occasionally hit something above 10-12m with an aimed shot. but anything else is just crazy.
Could argue that if someone is *really* good at aiming he might hit stuff at 20m. But not at a rate of 3-4 aimed shots per turn...

EDIT: beretta and UAC Pistol, if anyone is wondering. Though UAC has at least a reasonable snap shot accuracy on long range. For beretta its basically a cheaper not as well aimed shot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: eXalted on March 13, 2020, 01:41:07 pm
Are you using 1.2? Beretta has a snap shot range of 15 and aimed of 20. It drops with 2 accuracy per tile beyond that range.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on March 13, 2020, 04:43:51 pm
Pistols

Indeed one of the first things I noticed when playing XCF for the first time after having tried Piratez before, was the incredible usefulness of pistols. Pistols and to a lesser degree shotguns rule the battlefield in the early game with its small maps and poorly equipped or melee enemies and they remain very useful long after that. The potential damage output is so much higher than rifles thanks to very low TU costs and good accuracy at short ranges. Add to that the ability to wield melee weapons/grenades/shields in your offhand. Pistols only become a liability on wide open maps with little cover or against well-armoured foes.
I still mostly use rifles for their versatility and for aesthetic reasons (pistols go well with agents in coats and kevlar vests but not so much with military gear). Recently, however, I have considered giving more of my soldiers pistols again, not just as sidearms for snipers. TU-intensive aimed shots from rifles draw a lot more enemy reaction fire than fast pistol shots, which is a big problem.
I'm still mostly fine with the balance between rifles and pistols, because they each excel in different areas.
I'm more concerned with SMGs. They are really just inferior pistols. The added auto-option never gives you as many hits per turn as snap shots from a pistol would, unless you are so close to the target, that you might as well switch to melee. This as bad, since pistols and SMGs mostly serve the same purpose, being small, lightweight, often concealable and fast-firing short range weapons. So far, I only found the BlackOps SMG and the P90 to be worthwhile.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 13, 2020, 04:54:18 pm
Are you using 1.2? Beretta has a snap shot range of 15 and aimed of 20. It drops with 2 accuracy per tile beyond that range.
yes, started on 1.2
seems still extremely high. Lets say i´d shoot at 75% acc aimed, target is 35 tiles away. That´d still be 45%... Considering TU/dmg this might be more than some sniper rifles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 13, 2020, 05:53:43 pm
Please remake the Asuka 4000 rifle.It is completely useless compared to a UAC rifle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 13, 2020, 07:09:36 pm
Please remake the Asuka 4000 rifle.It is completely useless compared to a UAC rifle.

Wow, that's a new one. ;D

As for the pistols: well, maybe. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: eXalted on March 13, 2020, 11:16:52 pm
Yeah, maybe pistols could have a faster drop rate.

I also find shotguns incredibly overpowered too. Their range is just too high. Combine that with the new stun baton shells from the latest nightlies and you have the perfect weapon for your whole squad.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 14, 2020, 05:05:07 pm
Having anyone who can't hold a minigun carry medkit and pistol. They still outrange red dawn snipers and such...
but of course the miniguns are more fun.
"What do you mean no line of fire? I am the line of fire!"  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 14, 2020, 11:01:33 pm
Please recycle the plasma sword. When I researched it, I thought I got a super-powerful melee weapon, but I was terribly disappointed in it. 1-Why is the impact cost so high? A plasma sword has a weight of 9,a katana has 12, but a katana strike costs 12, and a plasma sword costs 20.Why is that? This is not justified at all,a plasma sword strike should cost 10-12, but no more.Also, the description says that the plasma has a very thin blade, which hints that the blade (perhaps) has no weight and therefore the sword should be very light. 2-force damage bonus Is not clear. Why use force with this weapon? If with a katana it is clear that you need to apply force to cut through an object, then in the description of the plasma sword, we are told that it cuts titanium like oil. 3-Damage.It is very low for plasma-type weapons. With an ordinary katana, I destroy the cyber disk with 2 blows. With a plasma sword, I struck him 3 blows, after which, he, smiling maliciously, killed my fighter with a return shot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 15, 2020, 01:28:18 pm
Please recycle the plasma sword. When I researched it, I thought I got a super-powerful melee weapon, but I was terribly disappointed in it. 1-Why is the impact cost so high? A plasma sword has a weight of 9,a katana has 12, but a katana strike costs 12, and a plasma sword costs 20.Why is that? This is not justified at all,a plasma sword strike should cost 10-12, but no more.Also, the description says that the plasma has a very thin blade, which hints that the blade (perhaps) has no weight and therefore the sword should be very light. 2-force damage bonus Is not clear. Why use force with this weapon? If with a katana it is clear that you need to apply force to cut through an object, then in the description of the plasma sword, we are told that it cuts titanium like oil. 3-Damage.It is very low for plasma-type weapons. With an ordinary katana, I destroy the cyber disk with 2 blows. With a plasma sword, I struck him 3 blows, after which, he, smiling maliciously, killed my fighter with a return shot.

100% intended. This weapon is made for aliens, not humans. In fact, it kinda sucks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 17, 2020, 05:18:24 am
Please tell me how to open a Gauss weapon? I have almost passed the game, my fighters have long been armed with plasma, but I have not seen a Gauss weapon. Also, what should I do next? I've already destroyed 3 alien embassies, launched a satellite to the moon, saved M. A. G. M. A. astronauts, and I don't know what to do next. Apocalypse, Dagon, Lotus, Dawn, EXALT are destroyed. The syndicate is almost destroyed, leaving only the storming of the headquarters. I didn't do any underground or underwater missions at all. What do you need to do to open a mission to storm the alien base on the moon? I'm tired of shooting down endless UFOs. It became very boring.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 17, 2020, 06:17:05 am
Please tell me how to open a Gauss weapon? I have almost passed the game, my fighters have long been armed with plasma, but I have not seen a Gauss weapon. Also, what should I do next? I've already destroyed 3 alien embassies, launched a satellite to the moon, saved M. A. G. M. A. astronauts, and I don't know what to do next. Apocalypse, Dagon, Lotus, Dawn, EXALT are destroyed. The syndicate is almost destroyed, leaving only the storming of the headquarters. I didn't do any underground or underwater missions at all. What do you need to do to open a mission to storm the alien base on the moon? I'm tired of shooting down endless UFOs. It became very boring.
gauss:
MiB uses them. Kill some of those...
Final mission:
You were at the source already. Embassies have some really cool ethereals you wanna catch living. But in the end you need a living eth commander though, probably only chance would be battleship.
I do agree the endgame is kinda drawn out though, since it depends on waiting for many very specific things and there´s just tons of missions/ufos which are basically fillers by then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Nord on March 20, 2020, 01:21:46 pm
Maybe you will find it useful, Solarius.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 20, 2020, 03:00:30 pm
Thanks! It's definitely a bit different from mine, I'll take time thinking of which one is better.

EDIT: I've decided to use your boots and helmet, they're definitely nicer. But I'll keep the torso, because not every agent is slim and twiggy. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: HT on March 20, 2020, 11:45:23 pm
Soo, how long until the new update is released?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 21, 2020, 07:48:17 am
Since rats benefit too from the commendations (and training)... how about a power bonus formula on bite?
These are giant rats... if you take a giant pouched rat as example, they can easily bit off a finger at baby age. But they´re smart... and growing stronger...
Some advanced bite techniques or at least strength bonus on bite seem adequate  ;)
Never noticed before... but are they supposed to have full inventory capabilities? I can imagine a rat sized backpack, but I cannot imagine a minigun magazine fitting in it...
(poor rat would have a hard time carrying anyway)
and while we´re at it... ninja training for rats? master splinter anyone?  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: banelinq on March 21, 2020, 08:47:19 am
When soldiers walk in place with stock pile of tires, they dont lose TUs

Not sure if this is bug, or because of resolution, but when werewolf walk away from "camera" there is missing line of pixels in the animation
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Nord on March 21, 2020, 02:58:57 pm
Not sure if this is bug, or because of resolution, but when werewolf walk away from "camera" there is missing line of pixels in the animation
It is a bug of a spritessheet. I have uploaded fixed image for Solarius, but looks like he forgot that. Once again:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2020, 11:39:59 pm
Soo, how long until the new update is released?

Hopefully less than a week.

Since rats benefit too from the commendations (and training)... how about a power bonus formula on bite?
These are giant rats... if you take a giant pouched rat as example, they can easily bit off a finger at baby age. But they´re smart... and growing stronger...
Some advanced bite techniques or at least strength bonus on bite seem adequate  ;)
Never noticed before... but are they supposed to have full inventory capabilities? I can imagine a rat sized backpack, but I cannot imagine a minigun magazine fitting in it...
(poor rat would have a hard time carrying anyway)
and while we´re at it... ninja training for rats? master splinter anyone?  8)

These are rats though. Scouts.

When soldiers walk in place with stock pile of tires, they dont lose TUs

Please update your OXCE.

It is a bug of a spritessheet. I have uploaded fixed image for Solarius, but looks like he forgot that. Once again:

Thanks, I fixed it myself a few days ago, but your sprites are sure to be better. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 22, 2020, 12:50:17 am
These are rats though. Scouts.
To put that in perspective, my (normally sized) rats shredded a golf ball in mere minutes.
A small-dog-sized rat could bite through bone.
I was planning to max out some rats and clear some UFOs with it, but the constant 10 bite dmg is a very big obstacle... even though they do gain strength and melee skill.
Just to see the pixeled face of some sectoids with their advanced tech and such, landing on earth and get taken out by 2 dozen rats...  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Nord on March 22, 2020, 04:05:59 am
Anything i am doing except my own mod... procrastina-ation.
So, here is upgraded Mongorn spritesheet. It annoyed me for a long time.

Rat on the way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Vangrimar1 on March 22, 2020, 04:16:52 am
A small suggestion: add the type of damage "Cold". I have long dreamed of a cryo gun to freeze aliens. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 22, 2020, 10:29:10 am
So, here is upgraded Mongorn spritesheet. It annoyed me for a long time.

As always, a stunning work. Thank you.

Anything i am doing except my own mod... procrastina-ation.

Maybe it can be used somehow in Chronicles? :)

A small suggestion: add the type of damage "Cold". I have long dreamed of a cryo gun to freeze aliens. ;D

There is no special damage type, but there are several cold-based weapons. They generally work as stun weapons with additional (large) health damage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Nord on March 22, 2020, 10:47:28 am
Maybe it can be used somehow in Chronicles? :)
That is what i mean. No mongorns in Chronicles. But there are dire rats with venomous bites. Here is upgraded sheet and floorob. Not proud of it, but still better than before.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 22, 2020, 11:33:24 am
Many thanks. I kinda liked the purple blood, but it was a bit overdone.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Nord on March 22, 2020, 01:48:23 pm
Well, Falco's oxc tools can quickly make it purple again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 22, 2020, 11:54:51 pm
Yeah sure, I just am not longer sure it was a good idea in the first place.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 23, 2020, 01:32:30 am
just had a very interesting mission on a boat with a certain dr.
like it ^^

but my rat ran quickly out of energy. thought its supposed to be a scout? how can it have so bad energy regeneration then? >_>
ergo, rats are front line assassins.
what do you think the R in AR-15 stands for? its "rat"!  ;D
ever heard of H.A.I.R.? Heavy Assault Infantry Rats? they´re gonna be doombringers...  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 24, 2020, 01:13:36 am
Right, I buffed rats energy regen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 24, 2020, 09:26:52 am
whats the soundtrack on the lotus statue mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 24, 2020, 12:10:31 pm
whats the soundtrack on the lotus statue mission?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 26, 2020, 05:28:15 am
Please explain in detail how to get out to Gauss weapons. I looked at the wiki, it says that to open the Gauss, you need to open the mass accelerators, which are opened when exploring the elerium battery and any Gauss weapons. But I haven't seen a Gauss weapon yet. I was told that I need to research MiB weapons, and I have a lot of such weapons in stock, but I can't research them. Although plasma has been opened for a long time and the best laboratory is located. I don't know what I need to do. Do not write about the fact that you can open the technology tree, I play with my phone, I do not have this option. Please help, thank you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on March 26, 2020, 05:39:08 am
Please explain in detail how to get out to Gauss weapons. I looked at the wiki, it says that to open the Gauss, you need to open the mass accelerators, which are opened when exploring the elerium battery and any Gauss weapons. But I haven't seen a Gauss weapon yet. I was told that I need to research MiB weapons, and I have a lot of such weapons in stock, but I can't research them. Although plasma has been opened for a long time and the best laboratory is located. I don't know what I need to do. Do not write about the fact that you can open the technology tree, I play with my phone, I do not have this option. Please help, thank you.

You can obtain this weapon on the missions with reptoids (Shogg arc).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 26, 2020, 05:50:14 am
I would also like to ask if you will continue to work on the plot of Doom? In one of the messages about the cult of the Apocalypse, we are told that it has a mysterious sponsor. The huge number of UAC weapons explains everything. It would be cool to storm the UAC base and then hell.It would also be great to get the BFG9000 and possibly the Praetorian armor at the end of the story. It's a very exciting story line, but I think you've overdone the number of enemies on the missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Nord on March 26, 2020, 01:33:44 pm
In my search for something to steal, I noticed that gilldog animation is corrupted. So here is fixed one. Maybe i should say to Dioxine too...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 27, 2020, 04:51:52 pm
Thank you, Nord! :-*

And yes, more Apocalypse content is (loosely) planned.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: eXalted on March 27, 2020, 11:14:17 pm
"1.2 is going to be an almost final version. "

1 month later:
"Some pretty cool shit coming up boyzzz!"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 27, 2020, 11:50:35 pm
"1.2 is going to be an almost final version. "
probably means "includes almost all stuff that was planned for 1.2 ;)
This mod is already big enough to part it into "chapters". of course that´d make it less linear, which is not intended... ^^
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 29, 2020, 07:37:57 am
Hello. I would like to suggest adding a sawn-off double-barrelled shotgun to the game. This would be a very effective and useful auxiliary weapon in close combat. The size would be 2 cells, which allows you to put it in the quick access slot. This would be very conveniently Done in a workshop with a double-barrelled rifle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 29, 2020, 04:30:45 pm
Hello. I would like to suggest adding a sawn-off double-barrelled shotgun to the game. This would be a very effective and useful auxiliary weapon in close combat. The size would be 2 cells, which allows you to put it in the quick access slot. This would be very conveniently Done in a workshop with a double-barrelled rifle.

OK, I'll remember it for later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: vadracas on March 29, 2020, 04:35:00 pm
Other than the workshop project(and with Dioxine's permission of course), the Xpiratez sawed-off shotgun seems like it would fit right in.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: INFERNO on March 29, 2020, 06:34:26 pm
Please explain the meaning of smoke grenades? I thought they were creating a veil(logically), but it doesn't work as it should. I stormed the red dawn factory and decided to use this equipment. I was surprised. The veil only works on my fighters, but the opponents shoot at my soldiers as if the veil were not there. When aliens see through the veil-it's normal, they have psi vision and thermal imaging, but why do people see? Seriously? Why does it work like this? The most interesting thing is that the opponents see me from a long distance, they don't even come close.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: X-Man on March 29, 2020, 07:04:29 pm
Please explain the meaning of smoke grenades? I thought they were creating a veil(logically), but it doesn't work as it should. I stormed the red dawn factory and decided to use this equipment. I was surprised. The veil only works on my fighters, but the opponents shoot at my soldiers as if the veil were not there. When aliens see through the veil-it's normal, they have psi vision and thermal imaging, but why do people see? Seriously? Why does it work like this? The most interesting thing is that the opponents see me from a long distance, they don't even come close.

Oh, it is a long and painful story about smokes... In short, enemies can provide a squadsight to their mates, so the others can shoot at your out from their visible area. Despite of the official information, I think smokes are useless in 99% of situations and causes only inconveniences for your soldiers, not enemies'.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: vadracas on March 29, 2020, 07:06:43 pm
Oh, it is a long and painful story about smokes... In short, enemies can provide a squadsight to their mates, so the others can shoot at your out from their visible area. Despite of the official information, I think smokes are useless in 99% of situations and causes only inconveniences for your soldiers, not enemies'.

Yeah...

I literally never use them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 29, 2020, 07:20:23 pm
depends on the enemies...
especially red dawn is known for the squad sight thing. Also some of their higher tier guys have some thermal vision (not fully, but on lower ranges iirc).
Aliens totally don't care.
However, some otherwise nasty things (like a certain kind of green dog thats really good at diving) are very vulnerable to smoke, so as stun area dmg its not bad sometimes.
Most other cult guys (dagon, apoc, etc) will see at least as bad as you do through smoke.
tbh, i don't use them either, unless really desperate. thought about using smoke shells for mortars though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: vadracas on March 29, 2020, 07:23:50 pm
Oh, yeah. Killing things with smoke is something that I will sometimes do, but it is very difficult considering the fact that they can just leave the cloud. Keeping things stunned with smoke can work wonders.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: TheCurse on March 29, 2020, 10:10:43 pm
Oh, yeah. Killing things with smoke is something that I will sometimes do, but it is very difficult considering the fact that they can just leave the cloud. Keeping things stunned with smoke can work wonders.
first time was a very very desperate attempt (did like 30 tries for a turn) to escape from a green dog thingy slaughtering half my crew... so since nothing else was left, just for the sake of it i pepper sprayed it. unexpected results... ^^
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: Doc on March 30, 2020, 05:48:55 am
The AI is pretty good about using sneaky spotter tactics and squadsight so that can give the impression smoke isn't doing its job. But even if you are taking return fire most of it is less accurate than it would be otherwise, and if you can aggressively take out the nearest enemies doing the spotting smoke grenades do a marvelous job in cutting down the volume of fire coming your way. Add to that the thermal vision of dogs and scouting drones and smoke grenades can let you attack with near impunity in the early game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.2: Masters of the Universe
Post by: the nomad on March 30, 2020, 12:08:57 pm
Smoke grenades saved me a lot of times. You just have to explore and find out which enemies have thermal vision. You will be slaughtered if you used them again Red Dawn for example, as you have experienced. If they have Pioneers and higher ranking units then do not use it against them. Aliens too. But they work great against Black Lotus and some monsters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 30, 2020, 10:22:52 pm
Version 1.3 has been released.

- Updated to the newest OXCE.
- Overhauled Readiness into Sanity.
- Updated globe (by Dioxine).
- New UFOs and their missions: Small Envoy Ship (by Finnik), ADVENT Fighter, ADVENT Lander.
- New mission: Alien Governance (by Finnik).
- X-Com Slander (Shared Alien Gardens).
- New terrain: Commercial (by Dioxine and Solarius Scorch), Chemical Plant in two variants (by Dioxine), Native Urban.
- New AI armors: Enforcer, Tank/Flamer, Hovertank/Flamer, Tank/Minirockets, Hovertank/Minirockets.
- New dog armors: Cybersuit Gear (graphics by Brain_322), Astral Werewolf (for Dreamlands).
- New unit: Ethereal Legate (by Finnik).
- New weapon: AKM.
- New ammo: Chem clips for all M.A.G.M.A. pulse weapons, Shotgun Baton Shells, Crossbow Tritanium Bolts, Heavy Crossbow Tritanium Bolts.
- Improved G11 graphics (by Alex D).
- New dog paperdolls (thanks to Perekrylo for the help).
- New Jarhead paperdoll (by Brain_322).
- Ethereal Keepers are now green.
- New graphics for the Scout Drone ammo.
- HWPs now require Tritanium and are a bit more oriented towards resisting energy weapons.
- Alien Key can no longer be acquired infinitely, but only requires Improved Lab (by Finnik).
- Alien Embassy now evolves over time, spawns less missions and has new mapblocks (by Finnik).
- Overhauled and rebalanced Alien Embassy deployments (by Finnik).
- Expanded Urban Low terrain (by Finnik & Solarius Scorch).
- Overhauled Postindustrial, Port and Forest Marsh terrains (by Dioxine and Solarius Scorch).
- Increased chances for slander missions.
- EXALT HQ is a little smaller (by Finnik).
- Improved CQC accuracy across the board.
- CQC defense costs 5 Energy.
- Reorganized Hybrid weapons to eliminate duplication of unarmed attack entries.
- Dog bark no longer causes stun.
- Shooting down UFOs on flyby missions should no longer generate retaliations.
- Craft beam slots can now also accept cannons.
- Whirlwind and Mauler are now also awarded for taking targets alive.
- Flashlight can now be turned on and off (courtesy of Waldo the Ranger).
- More M.A.G.M.A. weapons can now be found in boxes.
- More loot on cult bases.
- More chances for Zrbite from Marine Expeditions.
- Vampire Knight now has a special vampire attack.
- Buffed Red Ops shooting skills.
- New icons for shielded armors.
- Some New boots on the Bio-Exo Suit (by Nord).
- Improved Gilldog, Werewolf and Mongorn sprites (all by Nord).
- Fixed an issue with manufacturing Fuel Tank.
- Fixed some walking units floating a little over the ground.
- Fixed too many Alien Gardens from Hybrid Controllers.
- Fixed AI units not getting air combat experience.
- Fixed Gertrude Ellison Ambush not spawning.
- Fixed Data Reel available on the wrong mission.
- Fixed tank manufacturing times.
- Fixed X-Com Sectopod walking sound.
- Various fixes to terrains.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on March 30, 2020, 10:29:22 pm
awesome :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on March 31, 2020, 12:02:23 am
Sweet!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Doc on March 31, 2020, 12:46:37 am
Looks great! Maybe in 2-4 years I'll be finished with my current campaign and will check out the new stuff!  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on March 31, 2020, 01:16:17 am
Why not upgrade mid-campaign, it would only be slight save file editing for a version like this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on March 31, 2020, 09:32:44 am
Quote
Craft beam slots can now also accept cannons

That's a generous gift, thanks! 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on March 31, 2020, 01:53:18 pm
Hooray.
Why not upgrade mid-campaign, it would only be slight save file editing for a version like this.
Are there any parts that actually require editing? I don't see any item being removed or merged.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on March 31, 2020, 02:31:40 pm
Hooray.Are there any parts that actually require editing? I don't see any item being removed or merged.

I'm not 100% sure and didn't want to give the wrong impression. However, you are correct that there doesn't appear to be any save editing necessary.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on March 31, 2020, 07:34:32 pm
I just stormed a Vampire Castle (in 1.3). The new turn caption is true. That place is evil.

Something I notice though. Even fully insane soldiers won't panic, so long as you keep killing enemies. I only had to retreat after the zombies stopped rushing at me. I don't know if there is no bug hunt in that mission, or if there were too many zombies remaining for it to start. I guess if it appears again, I should field a platoon of robots. They still go insane from the evilness of the castle, but it does not appear to affect them at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on March 31, 2020, 07:58:11 pm
hm, never found that place...

but who taught the exalt guys in suits to hold a primed highEx in case they get killed from up close? that is evil...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on March 31, 2020, 08:37:18 pm
Sanity doesn't seem to work in my saves. There is the attribute in the game but the bar does not go down. Have I done something wrong in my update?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 01, 2020, 01:48:44 am
question: how sturdy are those oil barrels (e.g. outside of cult compounds)?
tried blowing it up with like 15 pistol shots (blackops), did not work at all...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 01, 2020, 02:11:05 am
Hello. Please reduce the frequency of hybrid branch events. This is terrible. As soon as they start appearing, all other events stop falling out. I started a new game to find Gauss weapons,I explored the technology of hidden caves, then waited a month for an event to appear on their research. In the future, I explored a step into the dark, after which I waited for 4(!!!)a month to get a mission with an underground village, but I didn't get it, unfortunately, I lost. The problem is with hybrids.There were only events on the shelter/hospital/hybrid convoy. This is terrible. Lower the chance of these events falling out, or increase the chance of others. It is not interesting when the game spams the same events(note that Dagon, Lotus, EXALT were not closed, they also almost stopped appearing)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 01, 2020, 12:28:50 pm
Sanity doesn't seem to work in my saves. There is the attribute in the game but the bar does not go down. Have I done something wrong in my update?

Sanity only goes down on certain missions. You'll get a warning when it happens.

question: how sturdy are those oil barrels (e.g. outside of cult compounds)?
tried blowing it up with like 15 pistol shots (blackops), did not work at all...

There are many types of barrels, so there's no clear answer. But pistols are probably too weak to pierce them.

Hello. Please reduce the frequency of hybrid branch events. This is terrible. As soon as they start appearing, all other events stop falling out. I started a new game to find Gauss weapons,I explored the technology of hidden caves, then waited a month for an event to appear on their research. In the future, I explored a step into the dark, after which I waited for 4(!!!)a month to get a mission with an underground village, but I didn't get it, unfortunately, I lost. The problem is with hybrids.There were only events on the shelter/hospital/hybrid convoy. This is terrible. Lower the chance of these events falling out, or increase the chance of others. It is not interesting when the game spams the same events(note that Dagon, Lotus, EXALT were not closed, they also almost stopped appearing)

We've decreased the number of hybrid missions in 1.3. After a few months they will disappear completely.

By the way, there are a few bugs in 1.3 (like in pretty much any big update), including a crash on the postindustrial terrain. Bugfix release very soon, with a few new items for consolation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 01, 2020, 07:00:30 pm
what do eerie auras do? except apparently contain a lot of zombies... ;)
Never seen that before, but found nothing special about it either...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 01, 2020, 07:50:00 pm
what do eerie auras do? except apparently contain a lot of zombies... ;)
Never seen that before, but found nothing special about it either...

You'll notice soon enough.

And meanwhile, 1.3.1 has been released.

- New weapons: Plasma Proximity Grenade (graphics by Brain_322), Sawed-Off (graphics by Dioxine).
- New ammo: Shrapnel Rocket, Tritanium Shrapnel Rocket (both graphics by Brain_322).
- New tool: Laser Cutter (graphics by Brain_322).
- Improved Elerium Rocket sprite.
- Fixed missing description on Share Alien Gardens Tech.
- Fixed a crash on Postindustrial terrain.
- Minor terrain fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on April 01, 2020, 08:23:21 pm
yay!

2 of my favourites big mods released almost simultaneously! lůl

but @SolariusS - no need for more dossiers? :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 01, 2020, 08:35:31 pm
You'll notice soon enough.
is it some kind of... Curse? ^^
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on April 01, 2020, 10:38:19 pm
1idea> such Foundation(s),
(suggestion also for xPiratez)

(Prime, and Second Foundations, "encyclopedistrians", and psychohistorians (..The Board of Twelve 12 *Speakers"..almost sub-race, rasa) of super-mathematicians, and also uber-mentalists, too) overal plot-arc link.. )


..you know, someones, who is totally behind it all,  in shadows,  "behind *the (red) curtains*", and trigger with the threads and puppets..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on April 01, 2020, 11:02:53 pm
(..smthng resembling like the Knights (paladins) of the Round Table.. )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 02, 2020, 03:11:38 am
is it some kind of... Curse? ^^
had it again. whatever it is, gotta be subtle... no clue...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Spiralize on April 02, 2020, 05:46:01 am
We've decreased the number of hybrid missions in 1.3. After a few months they will disappear completely.

Oh, so that was unintentional? I just assumed they were supposed to be the main enemy of 1999. Not an unwelcome change, but a large one!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 02, 2020, 11:18:43 pm
I want to say a few words. The rubber cartridges for the shotgun were a miracle, and they were sorely lacking. Wonderful thing. Also, I was lucky! I found a Gauss weapon that fell out of Osiron's box. I would also like to know how many rating points are removed for skipping a mission? For example, an Outpost of a cult and a mission to an unknown life form. I will note that it is now much more difficult to gain a rating in an early game. This is not very good, because it's hard to get to the middle stage of the game(1999) (then the most interesting thing begins).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 02, 2020, 11:46:59 pm
I would also like to ask you to rebalance the AKM, G-11, and VSS. Why? AKM does not differ much from AK, 10% ignoring armor and 5% accuracy do not give anything at all. G-11 failed weapon, 20 damage, dependence on bravery, this is not good at all. To achieve good damage from G-11 you need to be the bravest person on earth. When the agent increases the courage to the desired level, the G-11 is already a piece of garbage, it is no longer needed. VSS has a very low reaction bonus, very low starting accuracy. This weapon requires very high skills to use, but it does not give a tangible advantage to an experienced fighter. The same automatic bops sniper rifle does not require high skills, but it is much more useful. You need to change the damage dependence to accuracy, and increase the starting accuracy for VSS, now this weapon is unplayable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 02, 2020, 11:54:59 pm
About the G-11 and AKM. I think it would be a good idea to make this weapon as a reward for the most difficult missions of cults (falls from the commanders), these rifles would be very good rewards, and very useful in combat. Increase the accuracy of the AKM to the level of the bops rifle, add a bonus to the accuracy of 0.1 damage. For G-11, increase the starting damage to 30.(And Yes, the AKM uses 7.39 rounds like a regular AK. Cartridges 5.45 - AK-74, correct the name). I want not to have a lot of identical weapons(as it happens with EXALT weapons), but to have more unique things, so that the weapons of cults are really useful(so far, the only weapons of cults that I want to get is Arasaka 3k,SVD, everything else is unnecessary garbage) and desirable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 03, 2020, 12:00:16 am
I would also like to know how many rating points are removed for skipping a mission?

alienMissions_XCOMFILES.rul, search (Ctrl-F) for points. I'm not exactly sure whether that means score for skipping mission or also score for losing it. It also says Terror gives -10 which is obviously wrong.

Basically it's about 25 for everything except terror/domination. However you want to send agents to literally every mission except those that have no abort, because it's free experience if you just get 1 shot on an enemy. Experience is way more valuable than score in the early game. Just abort immediately when in danger, often even before your first turn ends.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 03, 2020, 01:39:21 am
- EXALT HQ is a little smaller (by Finnik).
Thank god EXALT HQ was made smaller, the map was just too big.
Question, though...
Was the mapping of missions solved?
I remember that, while watching L&B's stream of XCF they, time and time again, would find themselves doing a mission where they would need to breach places to be able to get on certain areas of the map.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mrvex on April 03, 2020, 03:34:11 pm
Hi, after playing the mod for two months i must say i love this mod, normally i am XCOM 2 player but i decided to buy the old games and after scrolling for mods from get go i got this and maybe i should have played vanilla first to get used to the game but i say fuck it, sometimes trial through failure is the fastest way to learn the game but i had no idea what i got myself up to. And i am a Long War 2 player with 1171 hours of XCOM 2 clocked in so i was like " Well how bad it can be ? Long War of the Chosen is my daily butter" but this mod makes it look like the easiest difficulty in comparison.
This will be a long post, the mod did really impressed me.... And this post is more or less a colection i wrote over time rather than "in the moment" thingy.

I knew before hand that the old XCOM has a cheap difficulty system and that troops die like flies from stupid shit but what i get to see is monstrous. So me chosing non-ironman and the second easiest difficulty was a good idea.

The first mission ever was a monster hunt, during night. First of all i was like "Why is everything so damm dark" before i realised maybe using those flashlights should be a thing so my two guys started pouring lead to a gorrila from Diablo 2, i do recognise that sprite. After it one shot my agent the other one managed to finish it off.
I was like "What the hell was that crap ?".

Skipping ahead to some note worthy event.
1) Zombie infestation that takes like an hour to mop up with 4 people but gives lotsa of points
2) Major zombie infestation
I was like " Well, more zombies".
But after an infestor one shot my dog (and turned him to a zombie ?) and my agent while the entire squad was shooting it  was like " Alright, i need more men or better weapons for this one".

Somewhere in the middle of my first campaign i realized i should abandon using non-shotgun weapons because atleast the shotguns could one snap shot things like spiders or rats and two snap hits even zombies at surprising range for a shotgun. And after that all missions started to be somewhat tolerable.
3) Human v Human combat
A somewhat refreshing change of pace, where my agents can actually survive being hit, even multiple times. Shotgun is like one hit KO for something like cultists but alas i simply used hunting and nitro express rifles for long range snipes. One issue i have is the whole capturing enemies to progress being really hard at the start, not only the more higher standing officers have more powerful weapons you have either blunt weapons, tazers or stunsticks to do it so doing so requires save scumming. Only after really good armours (Like heavy tritanium suit) and the dart rifles it becomes less of a hassle. The dart rifle says that it works against aliens but it works on people just fine.
Its also somewhat satisfying once you get tanks to assault their compounds and listen to the symphony of bullets deflecting of its armour.
4) Enemies surrendering
I didnt expected this one to be in a game like this but boy its nice to have enemies that will simply surrender instead of fighting to death 24/7. It also helps with the hunt of a single person somewhere stuck on the shitter.
5) Night missions in general
I avoid them like the plague unless i have to. First of all i have no idea which enemies respect the darkness and which dont so i rather say fuck it and shoot at them across the map during daytime. For missions i had to do at night i simply made a system that one carries a shotgun and one carries a flashligt and a one handed sidearm. And if i need maximum firepower i simply give the shotgunners the flashlight and simply drop it to the ground once enemy is spotted.
6) Being unable to promote to rank II, undirectly failing my first campaign.
I couldnt find Exalt to unlock the military officer staff member so when 2 years passed i was fucked already.
7) I failed the second campaign because - 1000 ratings, so after reaching 2 years but this time i did manage to promote i failed because i was getting -1500 or like -1800 ratings per month for no reason.
8 ) I would have lost the third campaign (my current) if i wouldnt cheat and edit the monthly score out of shere frustration.
After getting "XCOM is cancelled" again despite me working my ass off to do all missions i lost it and started googling wtf is going on and after editing my save i did find the reason, like alien activity 1370 on one entry....

And then i got the message, too bad the aliens have like 6 large UFO's around the world, 2 in Australia, 3 in Europe (Where my main base is) and one in South America so i guess the mere existence of this ships cancels XCOM, but what am i suppose to do when my largest craft is Dragonfly ?! I will get chopped up if i decide to besiege them ? Mutons and Sectoids will rip my men a new one.
So after artificially keeping XCOM alive via file edits i managed, by a fluke  capture some high standing Red Dawn personal and i could destroy a cult. So i could get a promotion.
I was like " Alright, in the next playthrough, destroying any cult is number one priority". And so after furthermore cheating the score system i managed to build Skymarshall and after that i could destroy the landed UFO and all its nasty inhabitants. So i decided to land and i was getting peppered by bullets, not plasma bolts.
" Wait a second, these aint aliens ?".
And so began my slugfest of massacring MiB troops, even their tanks and sectopods ?!. And to this time of writing i can actually get a good rating without cheating because only like 2 Alien embassies exist and i can make it up somewhere else. But i really dislike this aspect that if you lag behind you are left in it with no warning and you are only watching a lost campaign going to shitter and starting over is the only way forward.
9) The "Covert" missions are mostly total sheite with absurd difficulty.
I ignore them whenever possible, way too hard. The only missions i do are out of necessity (Like looting something to get Chief Engineer from Osiron smugglers on the beach) boiled down to 1 human and 3 dogs, human hides and then dogs proceed to die or maul the enemies. Thats like the only way i found for this mission to be atleast playable.
10) The Osirion cruiser mission is epic, human enemies, lots of high tech goodies from Osirion crates, short corridors.
11) Hybrid clinics boil down to if i get a plasma grenade thrown across the map to a group of my troops or if i can actually scatter. I would like to be able to make my own laser weapons but i cant find the tech that would let me so these clinics are my source of all laser weapons and ammo. Also how do i get rid of these hybrids ? Do i have to do the covert mission about their stockpile ?
12) Getting a mortar, holy shit
*Bam*
*Yargh dying sound (from Deus ex) * *Alien scream* * Alien Scream* *Alien Scream* .
" Its not usual to get 4 kills with one attack" - Award
Ever since that, there is always a siege trooper in any open spaced battle, being able to frag multiple people at once, across the whole map and destroy terrain is invaluable, i should have discovered that earlier. Also that i can do some serious damage to even things like tanks or cause mass panic with incendiary shell.
13) Being able to repurpose enemy armours.
After freaking out after seeing a flying MiB trooper i swatted him out of the sky by minigun i discovered i can repurpose their armour so now some of my troops can fly and other wear some sort of energy armour suit thingy, since i dont have the tech i have no clue what it protects from but so far i discovered a trooper wearing it can get hit by a sectopod and only lose like a quater of his health, when a laser tank nex to him is destroyed in a single strike. So lasers and plasma ?.
14) Some things look like from a black comedy or something.
Enemies shooting rockets in close quarters
Capturing high priority target boils down to surrounding him with 6 people and gangbanging him with fists and stunrods. Also during base defence capturing Sectoid Commander boiled down to having 3 troops surround him, dog biting him 2 times exactly before agents started to kick the living shit out of him and then stuff him in their backpack, smuggle him to a closed room and there whenever he would wake up they would give him a beating while the rest of my troops are fighting with a sectopod in the hangar.
Someone tries to walk past my troops and gets KO in a single reaction melee attack.
Enemies throwing explosives at melee range at my agents. Getting blown up while wounding everyone. Looking at you MiB commander !.
Enemies shooting each other in the back.
Red Dawn HQ, the great staircase camping trip, dont mind those 8 dead bodies, there aint a guy waiting with a laser pistol and balistic shield above with 2 buddies armed with shotgun and a minigun.
15) Morozov mission even after Red Dawn is no longer around ?
16) Chupakabra DPS, alright it pretty much one/two shots my troops and it sounds like Zergling from Starcraft 1
17) Prison break by the Cult of the Apocalypse, at this point my troops look absolute badass and the entire mission looked like the ordinary Socialism regime running over protesters with tanks and gunning them down with firearms. I seen people climbing to the roof only to be smited by a laser tank down there, my flamethrower operative with Stormtrooper armour was roasting these barely armed civilians one by one, landing on the roof so they climb up to attack her in melee only for her to lift of and smite them. Everyone who poked their heads out were one shot by laser rifles. I've sent my elite troops here, i should have send noobs here since it was easy for a change...
18) Horrors in artactica, i always carry flamethrowers with me, for this occasion when bullets are useless. My preparedness paid off, only if my captain would have survived...
19) Crawling through caverns to find the black orb thingy of the Apocalypse, only to find some sort of dimension
When the music from Doom started to play.... ahh yeaaaaaaah.
20) My own sectopods, now this is an overkill, weapon that hits hard as a truck, massive armour, 50% damage resistance towards plasma. Laser tanks were quite something already, infinite ammo, powerful attack but this is just up to eleven.
21) Hunt for Meridian and Master Hon Zhu (Or however he is called)
I was kinda expecting that by capturing Meridian alive i would get some rare, one off- weapon or something. I should have just splattered his organs on the pavement from a rocket strike and not bother beating him to a pulp with stunsticks
Master... oh boy, he one shot both of my sectopods.
Me :" No you didnt"
*Reload save*
Master * Two shots the first sectopod before getting one shot by random reaction fire across the map*
Me :" What sort of boss is this ? He annihilates a massive mech that can survive multiple rockets and plasma blasts with one strike, does he like have damage over 9000 or something ? Is this some sort of joke character ? Well i guess i must capture him alive "
5 minutes later i realised he cant be captured, after my soldier, with 95% melee aim missed him multiple times (While 5 other dudes and gals were missing constantly) i got the message so i just ordered the soldier to shoot him at point blank. Problem solved.
22) So by a fluke i managed to destroy MiB base while it was flying, my aircraft was going after something but i send it and it managed to intercept it and destroy it. So it crash landed and i sent my troops in, but the mission is absolutely the same as if i would besiege a regular base. Why ? Like not sure if it had even reduced garrison, 9 Humans and 2 Tanks.
I made this list to showcase the highs and lows of this mod. The moments of despair, the moment of sheer awesomness..

To make it short, what i like on this mod.

1) The whole supernatural being enemy for XCOM, i would actually like the early period to be longer before it devolves to normal XCOM gameplay. The whole fighting with close ranged enemies changes the game considerably, encourages mobility and defence.
2) The sheer amount of weapons, good lord. I am getting lost when i am choosing what to use... and that is a good thing !.
3) The massive variance of enemies
4) Mission variety, from hunting monsters in the forest to raiding underground facilities and smuggler ships i cant say i am not satisfied with what i can do.
5) The gradual transformation of XCOM to the para-military org of the base game.
6) This mod has portrayed XCOM as real as it can get in a computer game, instead of being some discout super heroes, they are a shadowy organisation that fears not of doing evil actions to archive victory, kidnapping people, selling alien tech to corporations, stealing tech from military, silencing those who have something bad to say about XCOM.
What i dont like (I'll separate things that are the problem of the whole XCOM so no getting fragged by a missile the moment i step out)

What i dont like that much

1) Game can fuck you over and you dont even know your campaign is lost. The whole of these massive UFO's perma landing and causing insane negative rating is just ridiculous. Also if you somehow dont discover Exalt and some alien tech you also lost. The third (current) campaign was barely saved because i raided Osirion traders on the beach and i got the acid gun so chief engineer could be recruited but it was a close shave.
2) Autopsies and capturing of monsters is mostly pointless. I am acustomed from XCOM 2 that autopsies tend to be beneficial, unlocking upgrades, grenades, ammo types etc... but so far, from top of my head i can remember only 2 life captures that benefit me more than just "This thing is vulnerable to fire" and those two are Rats (For XCOm rats ?!) and the zombie boomer for some sort of grenade i never used.
And fighting these enemies is no science whatsoever. Its always just "Shoot them till they die with shotguns or rifles". With a good chunk of the enemies being vulnerable to choking and fire.
3) The covert ops where you can bring limited weapons, yeah its fun charging people with crowbar while they can nuke your guy with few bullets from a pistol. No its not, the existence of these missions seems to be displaced and way too hard for its reward.
4) The capturing of critical personal to progress is a problem on its own and is extremely RNG dependant for my liking and to do it safely...
5) I am getting lost in the tech tree constantly because there is so much to do and XCOM staff doesnt help by like saying what i need to get something. If for example there was a tech research that takes no time but is like "Laser weapon manufacturing know-how" that would give me a staff input that would vaguely suggest what i should research to be able to make these breakthrought weapon types.
6) For the massive variety of weapons you have access to, frankly bunch of them have no real usage for XCOM. Especially these WW2/WW1 weapons. And some weapons are simply inferior. For example the rifle weapon type vs SMG. The BlackOps rifle is a perfect example, its clearly superior to all rifles once you get access to it. Its snapshot has considerable accuracy and you can still go full auto in close quarters, why should i use the SMG which has crappy range and its full auto wont hit shit unless i shove it in the enemy face. Blackops rifles were my main weapon (And still is actually alongside laser/blaster rifles) to use because its that good. Sniper rifles have their place too but too bad like they do almost the same damage as blackops rifle but require massive TU to use.
7) Usefulness of doggos is questionable, they only work on covert ops because they like 1-2 shot everyone in melee, its actually quite amazing that a dog bite does as much damage almost as much as a sword slice. And maybe i picked them up if i dont have enough troops when i am about to raid a faction HQ where there will be lots of indoor fighting. However there i noticed that aside from the fact that enemies can bust through any door at any time and shoot, the dogs fall like a sack of shit when hit, even if i made tritanium vest for them. Also they have somewhat low energy. And while their melee is lethal... at this point my agents are in close range just as dangerous with knifes and swords and they are multiple times more durable, have better reactions and dont tire as quickly.

What i would suggest to be improved/be added
1) Auto-promotion failsafe to III if you managed to reach the previous rank but failed to reach the third one in 99 and you did somewhat well in the previous months.
2) The option to start the game earlier so you get to enjoy the paranormal monster and cult fighting for longer. In the settings where other customizable features are located.
3) Live captures being more rewarding than just giving you more cash if you sell them or telling you that this creature is vulnerable to fire/Choking/Lead poisoning.
For example capturing live quillboar from Diablo 2 will give you a new crossbow ammo type that has high chance to cause bleeding via fatal wounds.
4) Repair kits so it is possible to repair heavy weapon platforms on battlefield.
5) Bioaugmentations of alien DNA to dogs, pumping them full of steroids and turning them to discount Panzerhunds, ok maybe that wouldnt fly with Council but the concept of dedicated XCOM melee unit is interesting but their usefulness is debatable although i see the potential. XCOM rats sound like a joke and i didnt even bother with them, dogs are better.
6) Ability to hire higher standart troops in the late game so losing troops isnt as traumatic.
7) Abit of a nitpick but laser weapons shouldnt cause fatal wounds, i assume fatal wounds are the simulation of bleeding out but lasers would cauterize the wound to a crisp.
8) Mass accelerators and Gauss weapons have very odd aquisition. For a good chunk of the game i had just giant piles of these weapons from raiding MiB bases yet i couldnt research them and it was really frustrating me, until i raided Osiron freighter and looted something which opened everything.

Bugs
1) I seem to miss +100% hit chances abit too often, is this an engine quirk ? I would take if bullets hit an object but i have troops just missing someone standing on a rooftop and i have +100% accuracy
2) Black Sun troops cannot be captured for some reason, i mind controlled one of them and marched them up to Kitsune while my sectopods killed the rest. Also Sectopods seems to take absolutely no damage from warp rifles.
3) The robot brain enemies cannot be mind controlled, even if they have a brain.

Other than that, at this point this post is outdated since i see another version has been released ? I'll upgrade once i actually finish this mod, but impressive work regardless.

Also how do i destroy MiB and Cult of Apocalypse ? I Stopped Samael already yet there are ocassional riots, and MiB base missions are way too abundant and actually boring at this point.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 03, 2020, 03:36:50 pm
Please tell me, what parameter is responsible for the resistance to psi-control? As far as I understand, this is a psi force? And is it possible to add a mental shield to the game, as in XCOM-2? The fighter would receive 100% resistance to psi control,but he would completely lose his psi abilities. It's just very unpleasant when at the end of 98 you find out that all your best fighters are just pilots, useless in a battle with aliens(they are easily taken under control, all of them),and it's too late to train a new squad, you already need experienced fighters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: The Doer of Stuff on April 03, 2020, 08:02:13 pm
While we all admire your dedication and readiness for the attack on our base, Farukh, maybe in the future you'd have better luck with the commode if you took your armor off before taking a dump.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VtCsaulG6uI243m0ZlxPqC1ER1_5tANbfjmhr1TYRwJ-K6_OfuGFIHmWt9ZlDd-YHiVe8w=s128)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 03, 2020, 08:08:52 pm
Inferno this is really the wrong forum for such questions, they have nothing to do with the mod.

Bravery is used as psi-resist. FearImmune means psi immunity. Plenty of things like the direct damage from Dagon's Staff will still work however.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 03, 2020, 08:22:13 pm
psi shield would be cool though. having exactly the same problem with the soldiers at that point...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 03, 2020, 08:42:44 pm
I like the psi-terror of Sectoids in the invasion to be honest. You know not only have to bring out an elite team, but they have to be psi-resistant as well. Tells you the importance of building an elite team with various talents, with as many soldiers as possible. And soldiers with high psi-strength and low stats suddenly become a lot more important to train and keep alive. And you don't risk and send out psi resistant soldiers to non-alien missions. Really ups the thinking and strategy in the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 03, 2020, 09:01:08 pm
As per Psi-gifted soldiers, I realized once Psi-screening becomes available, I hire and fire a large bunch of candidates (like 30 to 50 at the time). I only retain those with Psi of 90 or more and fire the rest. And in no time all soldiers will be Psi resistant.
The mod Stat strings becomes very helpful for screening and rapid firing from the Sell menu.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: The Doer of Stuff on April 04, 2020, 06:15:54 am
Pardon if this is asked somewhere else, but does X-Com Files do air to air combat differently from Vanilla in terms of how tough UFOs are and how much damage they can take? I just had an avenger destroy an Alien Battleship on a flyby mission. Didn't do anything fancy, just flew up to it and started blasting away with a pair of plasma cannon. IIRC, with the vanilla game's damage tables, it would be impossible to destroy a battleship, only make it crash. I assume something changed, but I'm not sure what.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 04, 2020, 03:01:36 pm
OXCE allows modders to state the amount of damage a hunter-killer is ready to take before it runs away, it also allows modders to state that a hunter-killer will fight till destruction(with a percentage chance, not guaranteed). I haven't checked the files, but I bet it will be hard to get a battleship to crash.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 04, 2020, 05:13:30 pm
Is the sparkling effect on the units that are flashbanged taken away? Now I can't tell if the flashbang that has fallen near an enemy reached it or not, if the removal was intentional bring it back dude!!! I am planning my entire move on that fact when I am using them lol.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 04, 2020, 07:03:01 pm
ctrl h tells you whether or not the flashbang "hit", and if it hit you should get a message at the bottom of your screen where health is saying dazed, and a turn later, daze fades.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 04, 2020, 07:45:24 pm
Oh yeah you are right. I knew about the ctrl h but never used it and it didn't occur to me it would show flash hits. Thanks.

Hey, if it shows 0 does the penalties still apply?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2020, 10:05:44 pm
Thanks for all the posts guys. Unfortunately I can't respond in detail right now, but everything has been read.

Special salutations to Mrvex. This is a hard mod, I admit; not because I explicitly wanted to make one, but X-Com players are good and I need to present a challenge. So I won't criticize savescumming, but please bear in mind that XCF is considered a game rather hard to lose - by X-Com veterans. Your praise is very much appreciated, and your criticisms taken into account.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 04, 2020, 11:24:44 pm
I don't think they do, but I haven't tested it or checked .rul files for that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 05, 2020, 01:43:02 am
As per Psi-gifted soldiers, I realized once Psi-screening becomes available, I hire and fire a large bunch of candidates (like 30 to 50 at the time). I only retain those with Psi of 90 or more and fire the rest. And in no time all soldiers will be Psi resistant.
The mod Stat strings becomes very helpful for screening and rapid firing from the Sell menu.

I don't know why, but stat strings isn't showing for me on XCF, could Solarius Scorch make sure they are compatible? Because it does show for XC:UD. Or at least make a compatible version?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 05, 2020, 04:36:16 am
XCOMfiles is considered a different "game" / master mod just like TFTD is a different game. Making a version for XCOMfiles as simple as changing the master. But while you're at it you should probably customize the stat strings because desirable stat strings are very different in this game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: HT on April 05, 2020, 11:42:24 am
You could edit the metadata file of XCOMFiles to set "isMasterMod" to false, enabling the use of mods for XCOM1 as well as XCOM Files if they're relevant. That should do the trick.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: BlackStaff on April 05, 2020, 12:02:31 pm
You could edit the metadata file of XCOMFiles to set "isMasterMod" to false, enabling the use of mods for XCOM1 as well as XCOM Files if they're relevant. That should do the trick.
I may have misunderstood what you said (I use an online translator).
But in XComFiles I use some classic MODS (modified of course for OXF)  that work very well...
I deleted a lot of them that were useless... but I still use three of them (four if I count a music mod).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: HT on April 05, 2020, 12:30:19 pm
If you check the mod's files, you should see a file called "metadata". Open it with Wordpad or an equivalent program and try what I suggested. XFiles will then become a "regular" XCOM1 mod instead of a Master mod, which means all of the mods you used for XCOM1 should work again, if they can be applied to XCF. There's a mod called Recruitment Office for example that works if you do that trick. Others like the "No Psionics!" mod that comes with OXCE won't work though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: BlackStaff on April 05, 2020, 12:44:48 pm
Your solution changes the status of the XCF game.
There is another way to change the MODs (not XCF) to work properly!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 05, 2020, 01:19:00 pm
Vanilla strings wouldn't make much sense in XCF, as it's a different scale.

1.3.2 has been released.
- New weapon: Taser Cannon (by Finnik, sprites by Brain_322).
- New sprite for the Plasma Carbine (by Brain_322).
- Proper paperdoll for the Large Alien Drone (by Brain_322).
- Sentinel is now a transport (map by Dioxine).
- 4 new Dimension X Base buildings (by Wolverin).
- Made defensive drones inventory a bit friendlier.
- Fixed the letter э in small font (by Kato).
- Fixed Tritanium Shrapnel Rocket and Laser Cutter not being manufacturable.
- Fixed a crash on some ADVENT missions.
- Fixed potential disconnected sections in the Chtonite Base.
- Various terrain fixes.
- Other minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: HT on April 05, 2020, 01:30:59 pm
FUCK YES! Time to test the new update! That reminds me:

Why the change of the Blaster Lasers to Turbolasers? Just to know, it doesn't sound as catchy as "Blaster Lasers". The only reason I can think about is to avoid confusion with the alien Blaster Launcher, but it is a minor nitpick.

Also, now that doges finally have mechanized armor of sorts, will their cyber-armors allow them to go to space missions if they don't do that already? Are even more advanced power armor for doges considered at this point, or not yet?

Lastly, while my solution changes the status of XCF game, it is way easier than manually changing each mod's status one by one. So, it's your choice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on April 05, 2020, 06:10:56 pm
Third upgrade in a row.
I have a question about weapons. For purposes of commendations, are carabines rifles, or SMGs?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 05, 2020, 09:50:05 pm
I see there are new popup missions for underwater battles.
One request/question: To what extent it would be possible to include in the mission description whether it's a 7- 15- or more person underwater craft ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 05, 2020, 11:57:35 pm
@Mathel
Rifles according to items_XCOMFILES.rul.

@Alex_D
Totally possible, just change the appropriate string in Language/en-us.yml. You can ctrl-f for the current text. You will see that it's duplicated. Change on of those values.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 06, 2020, 01:46:13 am
Is the Overwatcher perk bugged? I keep getting the bonus with soldiers who did not even reaction fire.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 06, 2020, 02:58:12 am
so, osiron warehouse mission just popped up. In wuhan... >_>
still not sure if its a good idea...

EDIT: well great, one of my guys is coughing now...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on April 06, 2020, 10:57:42 am
@Bobit
Thanks.

@TheCurse
How did you manage to stretch your game to Dec 2019?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: The Doer of Stuff on April 06, 2020, 03:20:06 pm
Possibly dumb question, but where how do I get my hands on a gauss Pistol/rifle/other gauss weapon? I don't really need it, since in my game I already have plasmas and turbolasers and even blaster weapons, but it annoys my inner completionist to not be able to get started on the mass driver and ultimately gauss weapon line.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on April 06, 2020, 03:30:37 pm
Possibly dumb question, but where how do I get my hands on a gauss Pistol/rifle/other gauss weapon? I don't really need it, since in my game I already have plasmas and turbolasers and even blaster weapons, but it annoys my inner completionist to not be able to get started on the mass driver and ultimately gauss weapon line.

Wait for the missions with reptoids (Shogg arc).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 06, 2020, 04:18:01 pm
@TheCurse
How did you manage to stretch your game to Dec 2019?
mid 1998. That guy is fine, turns out the coughing was just a bullet in his lungs, nothing serious.
At current rate i might reach that date though. not even promotion 3 yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: The Doer of Stuff on April 06, 2020, 08:00:53 pm
Wait for the missions with reptoids (Shogg arc).

Ahh, my thanks. I've gotten a really late start on those in my current playthrough, as the first chance I got to go "Into the Dark" was when I captured a Cthonite Engineer on the third terror ship I shot down, in like April or May 1999. Mostly I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something important.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 07, 2020, 03:06:46 am
Vanilla strings wouldn't make much sense in XCF, as it's a different scale.

1.3.2 has been released.
- New weapon: Taser Cannon (by Finnik, sprites by Brain_322).
- New sprite for the Plasma Carbine (by Brain_322).
- Proper paperdoll for the Large Alien Drone (by Brain_322).
- Sentinel is now a transport (map by Dioxine).
- 4 new Dimension X Base buildings (by Wolverin).
- Made defensive drones inventory a bit friendlier.
- Fixed the letter э in small font (by Kato).
- Fixed Tritanium Shrapnel Rocket and Laser Cutter not being manufacturable.
- Fixed a crash on some ADVENT missions.
- Fixed potential disconnected sections in the Chtonite Base.
- Various terrain fixes.
- Other minor fixes.

But statstrings does allow you to make custom ones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 07, 2020, 05:04:37 am
I don't know of any mod that comes with its own statstrings. They probably should, as they help you get much more attached. But they don't, and it doesn't really make sense for someone else to make a thread for unofficial statstrings.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 07, 2020, 02:50:57 pm
I don't know of any mod that comes with its own statstrings. They probably should, as they help you get much more attached. But they don't, and it doesn't really make sense for someone else to make a thread for unofficial statstrings.

Doesn't 40k has it's own statstrings variant?
Also, I think the statstring mod got incompatible with XCF since new stats were added (i.e.: sanity).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 08, 2020, 07:48:30 pm
Why the change of the Blaster Lasers to Turbolasers? Just to know, it doesn't sound as catchy as "Blaster Lasers". The only reason I can think about is to avoid confusion with the alien Blaster Launcher, but it is a minor nitpick.

Yes, people complained about the inconsistency, and I yielded because they actually had a point.

Also, now that doges finally have mechanized armor of sorts, will their cyber-armors allow them to go to space missions if they don't do that already? Are even more advanced power armor for doges considered at this point, or not yet?

Not yet, this armour isn't exactly environmentally sealed. Maybe some other armour in the future.

I see there are new popup missions for underwater battles.

Umm, no, no new underwater missions in 1.3.X... Or am I misunderstanding?

One request/question: To what extent it would be possible to include in the mission description whether it's a 7- 15- or more person underwater craft ?

We plan to overhaul this system in the long run (make real submarines and such), so I don't feel like improving the current model, as it's slated for demolition.

Is the Overwatcher perk bugged? I keep getting the bonus with soldiers who did not even reaction fire.

I checked, looks fine to me... If it's bugged, then it's beyond me.

Wait for the missions with reptoids (Shogg arc).

Right, or try Osiron.

But statstrings does allow you to make custom ones.

Then feel free to do so :>
I won't do it, never used stat string,s never will as they look fugly and I can just check the stats myself like a decent human being.

:D

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 08, 2020, 11:27:33 pm
So, my impressions of 1.3. Rubber bullets are cool. Now you don’t have to run to the farmer with a shotgun and get a shot of shots in the face. Hybrids really became much less. I am surprised that they appear only after the destruction of EXALT. And I destroyed it only in the middle of 2000. Gauss weapons - to make a rifle, you need to find a rifle. It's horrible. I found only heavy gauss in the boxes of Oziron. I thought that after the discovery of the gauss weapon I could do all kinds. If we are told with plasma that it is long and dangerous to develop our plasma, then what is the problem of Gaussian weapons? It is necessary to do as with a laser weapon, so that all types open. Unless, for example, having studied a gauss pistol, XCOM scientists cannot create other types of weapons based on this technology, with the same principle of operation? An urgent need to redo. Shog's missions. I deliberately timed it. After a step into the darkness, I waited 7 months, skipping all missions, only knocking down UFOs so as not to lose. The mission never appeared, there was only a mission to the Chtonite base, but an underground village is needed to advance the branch. After which I was tired of waiting and I closed the game. I was waiting for this mission as the most important thing in the game, really wanted to open a Gaussian rifle, although at that moment I had already opened an advanced laboratory, and there was only 1 step left to the plasma (2001). Need to redo. Missions. After reducing the missions of hybrids, the middle stage of the game was empty. The constant retaliatory strikes of the Syndicate, which can be easily prevented, are annoying. The feeling that they throw you in socks is not painful, but annoying. The mission to storm the Syndicate tower also disappeared. I missed it, almost all the fighters were in the hospital, after which this mission no longer fell out. At all. I would like to destroy the Syndicate, but the opportunity has disappeared. People in Black also disappeared. Absolutely. They appear only on missions with farmers, in the amount of 3-4 people. Bases do not build. (2001, there was not a single base). Tanks. Small rockets are cool. Very. There is only one wish. I really like the look of a regular tank, with tracks. I don't like the look of a hovertank. It looks like a cyberdisk with a tower. Is it possible to add ordinary tanks to the game, only from tritania, so that the armor is like hovertanks? Also, why will MAGMA not give XCOM the opportunity to buy its armored personnel carriers? They have a very beautiful sprite, I would like to play such a beautiful machine. Counter attack. The aliens became very sluggish (difficulty 5). If earlier the retaliatory strikes were continuous and fun, then now they appear very rarely, as a result of which XCOM completely controls the sky, knocking down everything that flies, without fear of storming the base in response. New cards are cool. I did not like only the map with the industrial zone, where there are green puddles. Too twisty. It is very difficult to find the remaining opponents. Infiltration. Returning to what I wrote above about the air, I note that by 2001 no country had left the Council. In 1.2, at this point I lost 8 countries. In 1.3, aliens very rarely send a battleship to infiltrate, making it very easy to prevent. At 1.2, 2-3 battleships flew out right away and you had to fight hard to save the country. It was really hard. Separate conversation about the improvement of soldiers. It's horrible. I opened the cyberimplant, looked at the installation requirements and realized that only experienced fighters would do. And now, having collected the necessary characteristics, I go to the gain menu, but the fighter is not there! I can’t strengthen it, although all the parameters are suitable and even exceed the required values. How it works? The same with ninjutsu, bio-amplification and pilot training. An urgent need to redo. That's all for now. Wrote what is most striking. Make Shog's missions more accessible so that they are easier to get and more likely to drop out. For all my games, I reached only the creation of the Viper. I'd like to meet reptilians. The end.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on April 09, 2020, 02:23:14 am
So, my impressions of 1.3.
..
Tanks. Small rockets are cool. Very. There is only one wish. I really like the look of a regular tank, with tracks, like Merkava V (8), or Leopard-A8, or Abrams 3 ?. ?? I don't like the look of a hovertank. It looks like a cyberdisk with a tower. Is it possible to add ordinary tanks to the game, only from tritania, so that the armor is like hovertanks? Also, why will MAGMA not give XCOM the opportunity to buy its armored personnel carriers? They have a very beautiful sprite, I would like to play such a beautiful machine..
..


exactly this! !! d´accord

..and "ordinarly" (´regular´) MBTs like Armata 2, Abrams 3, Merkava V  ( 8 ), or Leopard-2A8, or Abrams M3 ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 09, 2020, 12:37:06 pm
So, my impressions of 1.3.

Congrats on the least readable post I've seen on these forums over the past 6 years.

From what I gathered, you are complaining about Reptoid stuff not being available enough. This is true, I need to make a lot more content for it. Also the Gauss/Mass Driver branch doesn't work as well as I hoped. Oh well, I still need to redesign it in a sane way...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on April 09, 2020, 04:34:42 pm

So, my impressions of 1.3. :

 - Rubber bullets are cool. Now you don’t have to run to the farmer with a shotgun and get a shot of shots in the face.
 - Hybrids really became much less. I am surprised that they appear only after the destruction of EXALT. And I destroyed it only in the middle of 2000.

 - Gauss weapons
 - to make a rifle, you need to find a rifle. It's horrible. I found only heavy gauss in the boxes of Oziron. I thought that after the discovery of the gauss weapon I could do all kinds. If we are told with plasma that it is long and dangerous to develop our plasma, then what is the problem of Gaussian weapons? It is necessary to do as with a laser weapon, so that all types open. Unless, for example, having studied a gauss pistol, XCOM scientists cannot create other types of weapons based on this technology, with the same principle of operation? An urgent need to redo.

 - Shog's missions. I deliberately timed it. After a step into the darkness, I waited 7 months, skipping all missions, only knocking down UFOs so as not to lose. The mission never appeared, there was only a mission to the Chtonite base, but an underground village is needed to advance the branch. After which I was tired of waiting and I closed the game. I was waiting for this mission as the most important thing in the game, really wanted to open a Gaussian rifle, although at that moment I had already opened an advanced laboratory, and there was only 1 step left to the plasma (2001). Need to redo.

 - Missions.
After reducing the missions of hybrids, the middle stage of the game was empty. The constant retaliatory strikes of the Syndicate, which can be easily prevented, are annoying. The feeling that they throw you in socks is not painful, but annoying. The mission to storm the Syndicate tower also disappeared. I missed it, almost all the fighters were in the hospital, after which this mission no longer fell out. At all. I would like to destroy the Syndicate, but the opportunity has disappeared. People in Black also disappeared. Absolutely. They appear only on missions with farmers, in the amount of 3-4 people. Bases do not build. (2001, there was not a single base).

 - Tanks.
Small rockets are cool. Very. There is only one wish. I really like the look of a regular tank, with tracks, just like ordinarly MBT, of "Modern Warfare (~~1980 ~ 2000 ~2020 ~~2050), alike Armata, Abrams M3, Leopard 2A8 (3A9), Merkava V ( 8 ), etc..)
    - I don't like the look of a hovertank. It looks like a cyberdisk with a tower. Is it possible to add ordinary tanks to the game, only from tritania, so that the armor is like hovertanks?
 - Also, why will MAGMA not give XCOM the opportunity to buy its armored personnel carriers? They have a very beautiful sprite, I would like to play such a beautiful machine.

 - Counter attack. The aliens became very sluggish (difficulty 5). If earlier the retaliatory strikes were continuous and fun, then now they appear very rarely, as a result of which XCOM completely controls the sky, knocking down everything that flies, without fear of storming the base in response.

 - New cards are cool. I did not like only the map with the industrial zone, where there are green puddles. Too twisty. It is very difficult to find the remaining opponents.

 - Infiltration. Returning to what I wrote above about the air, I note that by 2001 no country had left the Council. In 1.2, at this point I lost 8 countries. In 1.3, aliens very rarely send a battleship to infiltrate, making it very easy to prevent. At 1.2, 2-3 battleships flew out right away and you had to fight hard to save the country. It was really hard.

 - Separate conversation about the improvement of soldiers.
It's horrible. I opened the cyberimplant, looked at the installation requirements and realized that only experienced fighters would do. And now, having collected the necessary characteristics, I go to the gain menu, but the fighter is not there! I can’t strengthen it, although all the parameters are suitable and even exceed the required values. How it works? The same with ninjutsu, bio-amplification and pilot training. An urgent need to redo.

That's all for now. Wrote what is most striking. Make Shog's missions more accessible so that they are easier to get and more likely to drop out. For all my games, I reached only the creation of the Viper. I'd like to meet reptilians. The end.

..and welcome to forum! :D)

(yap, such a *WALL of text" :o ;P lůl
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 09, 2020, 05:57:17 pm
so currently at a certain abduction mission.
Gotta say i like your taste in women  ;)
Strong legs though... they might be the reason none of my guys ever got a melee attack through. and got KO'd pretty easy...
Now gotta pack some ranged stun and try again D:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 09, 2020, 08:43:19 pm

Then feel free to do so :>
I won't do it, never used stat string,s never will as they look fugly and I can just check the stats myself like a decent human being.

:D

>_>
But there are so many soldiers and so much menu reading...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 09, 2020, 09:25:56 pm
>_>
But there are so many soldiers and so much menu reading...
Just turn on the option show stats in inventory in the advanced options. It gives you firing accuracy and throwing accuracy. If you want other stats, they're only one click away...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 09, 2020, 10:03:59 pm
I just assaulted a Durathread factory, if I remember correctly I should find an equipment that would enable us to manufacture durathread but it wasn't among the loot. Is this a bug, changed in the update (possibly not), or do I remember wrong? I could have not destroyed it because all the battle took place outside.

Jeez, I am asking a lot of questions these days.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 09, 2020, 10:16:18 pm
Sorry for the awful text. I don't know English, so I use a translator. Apparently, he is not able to translate large texts well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 09, 2020, 10:46:27 pm
Sorry for the awful text. I don't know English, so I use a translator. Apparently, he is not able to translate large texts well.
it worked well enough, but the lack of linebreaks and paragraphs was making it unreadable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 10, 2020, 12:10:52 am
For the taser cannon, wouldn't it make sense to have better batteries (more charges/less weight), once better battery tech is available?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mr. Mister on April 10, 2020, 12:38:50 am
Maybe "Insane Vigilante Processing" should give something more than a mere kevlar vest? At that point (mid-late promotion I, XCOM: PAU) you've had kevlar vests for quite a while, and it's much more profitable to sell the homicidal madman (assuming you don't wanna research him) and buy a vest. Plus, homicidal madmen have way more armor than a kevlar vest

I think processing them should give an Armored Vest. This way they serve as a way to early get a hold of one or two of them, just like how a couple of early homicidal maniacs can serve as early kevlar vests, assuming you want to forgoe additional researchs (which can still be pretty useful).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 10, 2020, 12:50:59 am
Errr, I only got the homicidal/insane missions pre/very early promo 1
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thunderwing280 on April 10, 2020, 01:43:59 am
Hello again! It's been a while since I've posted anything here but I'm back again!

So I've updated to 1.2 and there was a problem with the red dawn durathread factory mission, there was no factory! I did two of them successfully and got no durathread manufacturing out of them, has this been fixed in 1.3? And how do I give myself a durathread manufacturing as the missions seem bugged?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on April 10, 2020, 02:00:49 am
it seems the research path was changed.
i got it. forgot where, but i got it, so technically everything is fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mr. Mister on April 10, 2020, 10:05:57 am
Errr, I only got the homicidal/insane missions pre/very early promo 1

Eh, I'vevgotten a couple of maniacs early promotion I (second one came after I already had researched kevlar vests), and then the first madman came while researching summary report 2

Also, it just crossed my mind, but maybe "Insane Vigilante Processing" should be renamed to "Homicidal Madman Processing"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 10, 2020, 02:39:59 pm
Just turn on the option show stats in inventory in the advanced options. It gives you firing accuracy and throwing accuracy. If you want other stats, they're only one click away...

It doesn't show any more. That's the problem.
I think the adding of sanity broke compatibility.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mr. Mister on April 10, 2020, 02:41:27 pm
It doesn't show any more. That's the problem.

It does to me - FIRING, THROW and MELEE, on the upper-rightish.

(https://i.imgur.com/YFWOBcs.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on April 10, 2020, 02:43:11 pm
It does to me - FIRING, THROW and MELEE, on the upper-rightish.

Oh. That I have on, but statstrings is overall better, specially when I am getting ready for a mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on April 10, 2020, 02:58:28 pm
so currently at a certain abduction mission.
Gotta say i like your taste in women  ;)
Strong legs though... they might be the reason none of my guys ever got a melee attack through. and got KO'd pretty easy...
Now gotta pack some ranged stun and try again D:

hey get´into XCF. ChloeLock!  :-*  8)


btw.that was me, i formatted a bit that text wall posted by russ."Inferno"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mr. Mister on April 10, 2020, 07:40:55 pm
What does the Dog's bark attack in its current state do exactly? "20 Special damage" is not very clear. And is it intended that it always costs 9 flat TU, instead of 9% of max TU?

EDIT: Also, I looked under the hood of the Homicidal stuff, and figured out there are three tiers:

-Homicidal Maniac.
-Homicidal Soldier.
-Homicidal Madman.

Maniac has Kevlar-esque armor, Madman has Armored Vest-like armor (though with significantly better frontal), and Soldier has an in-between. I'd be fine with only the Madman giving armored vests and keeping Kevlar as the reward for the soldier's, but the thought of the madman only having a kevlar is honestly ridiculous given how tough he is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 10, 2020, 09:52:24 pm
What's going on in this last update? Besides no manufacturing plant, I have yet not seen one safehouse building nor outpost building in said missions, nor are there containers and money briefcases in them (which were my bread and butter  :)). It is just like a street fight with them, not like raiding a base. I can't say I liked the way it is now, if it is indeed intended. I did not update to 1.3.2 though, I am playing 3.1.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on April 11, 2020, 08:35:36 am
What does the Dog's bark attack in its current state do exactly? "20 Special damage" is not very clear.

Stun damage was removed in a recent update.
That means, that the bark only does TU damage now.

That's actually really useful. It works a lot like a budget flashbang, but unlike flashbang, TUs are deducted only during the current turn. Still very useful to take away the enemy's ability to reaction fire.
Also very useful to guard against melee enemies. Bark is a snap shot, so the dog can reaction bark during the enemy turn and drain their TUs, leaving them unable to get into attack range. Just place your dog in front of your formation with enough TUs to spare and hope, that the approaching enemy won't just walk around the dog.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 11, 2020, 06:20:31 pm
Maybe "Insane Vigilante Processing" should give something more than a mere kevlar vest? At that point (mid-late promotion I, XCOM: PAU) you've had kevlar vests for quite a while, and it's much more profitable to sell the homicidal madman (assuming you don't wanna research him) and buy a vest. Plus, homicidal madmen have way more armor than a kevlar vest

I think processing them should give an Armored Vest. This way they serve as a way to early get a hold of one or two of them, just like how a couple of early homicidal maniacs can serve as early kevlar vests, assuming you want to forgoe additional researchs (which can still be pretty useful).

Well, they don't seem to be wearing armoured vests... Their coats are big, but not that big.
Maybe I'll think of something.

Hello again! It's been a while since I've posted anything here but I'm back again!

So I've updated to 1.2 and there was a problem with the red dawn durathread factory mission, there was no factory! I did two of them successfully and got no durathread manufacturing out of them, has this been fixed in 1.3? And how do I give myself a durathread manufacturing as the missions seem bugged?

Welcome back!

The mod is fine. Your OXCE is outdated and you should repent. :P

What does the Dog's bark attack in its current state do exactly?

I don't know what I can add on top of the Pedia and INFO...

"20 Special damage" is not very clear. And is it intended that it always costs 9 flat TU, instead of 9% of max TU?

Yes.

I'd be fine with only the Madman giving armored vests and keeping Kevlar as the reward for the soldier's, but the thought of the madman only having a kevlar is honestly ridiculous given how tough he is.

They MAD.

What's going on in this last update? Besides no manufacturing plant, I have yet not seen one safehouse building nor outpost building in said missions, nor are there containers and money briefcases in them (which were my bread and butter  :)). It is just like a street fight with them, not like raiding a base. I can't say I liked the way it is now, if it is indeed intended. I did not update to 1.3.2 though, I am playing 3.1.

Darn, another one. How about keeping OXCE updated to the version which is explicitly stated in the metadata?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: the nomad on April 11, 2020, 07:12:44 pm
Alright, didn't check if a new OXCE came out because I already updated it short time ago. Thing is things keep changing with every update and I assume it is either a bug or a change I didn't like which someone else probably likes so I have to ask. Since I am not the only one who didn't realize the OXCE update maybe you can edit the first post to say latest OXCE will always be required. First post is checked more than the readme.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mr. Mister on April 11, 2020, 07:29:30 pm
Attached savefile: If the girl fires an Aimed Shot at the chupacabra she has in sight, the shot misses by going a little bit to the side and continuing onwards, despite the shown hit chance being 122%. I took it that a hit chance at 100% or above was at least guaranteed to hit the target if the shot wasn't blocked, which it isn't.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 11, 2020, 07:42:37 pm
Alright, didn't check if a new OXCE came out because I already updated it short time ago. Thing is things keep changing with every update and I assume it is either a bug or a change I didn't like which someone else probably likes so I have to ask. Since I am not the only one who didn't realize the OXCE update maybe you can edit the first post to say latest OXCE will always be required. First post is checked more than the readme.

The mod should warn you if the OXCE version is too old, but it only works on enabling the mod, not when it's already enabled.

Attached savefile: If the girl fires an Aimed Shot at the chupacabra she has in sight, the shot misses by going a little bit to the side and continuing onwards, despite the shown hit chance being 122%. I took it that a hit chance at 100% or above was at least guaranteed to hit the target if the shot wasn't blocked, which it isn't.

This is being discussed in every second post on this forum... :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Yankes on April 11, 2020, 08:29:13 pm
We should probably add option to to game to remove this `%` from game, how many bugs reports we will skip :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 11, 2020, 08:31:35 pm
Could you plz explain why you would miss a Chupa with 122% point-blank? Or provide a link to an explanation? It seems to me that the deviation should be 1 based on the code, meaning it should deviate by 1/10th of a block from center mass? Excluding CQB I can't see why that would cause a miss.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Yankes on April 11, 2020, 09:00:25 pm
What 1/10 of block? I see at least 1/4 of block in each direction (deviation of 10 is count in VOXEL units, and tile have 16 voxels).
Add if I recall correct aliens are smaller than 1/2 of tile, this mean you can always roll spot outside of alien, and if it on front of it, trajectory can easy miss him.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 11, 2020, 10:17:25 pm
Could you plz explain why you would miss a Chupa with 122% point-blank? Or provide a link to an explanation? It seems to me that the deviation should be 1 based on the code, meaning it should deviate by 1/10th of a block from center mass? Excluding CQB I can't see why that would cause a miss.


Just ignore the numbers, Luke. They cannot be explained. Hundreds have tried, all have failed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 12, 2020, 04:38:11 am
No, Yankes pretty much gave all the numbers I wanted to know  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 12, 2020, 04:48:19 am
I was talking about % to hit
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on April 12, 2020, 12:37:39 pm

Just ignore the numbers, Luke. They cannot be explained. Hundreds have tried, all have failed.

I will try too.
My guess is: We get a function of |Y|=a/(X+b), where Y is maximum deviation, a and b are >0 constants and X is "%hitchance". a is presumably quite high, b is presumably quite low.
Afterwards, for each dimension is deviation calculated as gauss-random, centered on 0, with cut-off points being on +-Y.
That way, even with a 0% hitchance, a soldier would be more likely to shoot the target than any other specific spot, maximal deviation would drop with rising %hitchance and chance to hit would rise with rising %hitchance (but would only truly be perfect with ∞% hitchance)

I have probably failed too, but I hope I am at least close.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 12, 2020, 06:17:46 pm
Why is this so important?

I've been playing this game for 23 years now, and I never cared about the mechanics in the slightest. I pull the trigger, the alien dies (or not). After enough attempts, I could predict fairly well how likely the alien is to die. So instead of analysing numbers like a savant, I focused on developing actual tactics, which I believe made me a better player.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 12, 2020, 06:45:32 pm
Mathel, you're right only on the basics, % hitchance just decreases deviation. However its influence on deviation is capped at 109, and it's not gaussian, it's equally distributed which point you pick in the cone of fire.

 Solarius, it's not. Except for determining how valuable cover and crouch is. And for deciding the value of colt over glock, but you only need basic info for that.

I feel I'm just missing one part. The code is right there at https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/oxce-plus/src/Battlescape/Projectile.cpp (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/oxce-plus/src/Battlescape/Projectile.cpp).

Deviation = (random number between 0 and 100) - (accuracy * 100) + (50 if sum to the left >= 0 (meaning a miss), else 10).

 There are 16 voxels in a tile as Yankes just told us.

Then it's basically (not actually because zShift is complicated) multiplied by (voxelRange / 200), and capped to 1 if it's lower than 1.

The only question that remains is, why is Yankes saying the deviation is 10? It should be 1. 100-120+10 = -10, which will be capped to 1. 1 voxel deviation should never miss. Apparently however, my math should.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Yankes on April 12, 2020, 07:03:27 pm
Mathel, you're right only on the basics, % hitchance just decreases deviation. However its influence on deviation is capped at 109, and it's not gaussian, it's equally distributed which point you pick in the cone of fire.

 Solarius, it's not. Except for determining how valuable cover and crouch is. And for deciding the value of colt over glock, but you only need basic info for that.

I feel I'm just missing one part. The code is right there at https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/oxce-plus/src/Battlescape/Projectile.cpp (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/blob/oxce-plus/src/Battlescape/Projectile.cpp).

Deviation = (random number between 0 and 100) - (accuracy * 100) + (50 if sum to the left >= 0 (meaning a miss), else 10).

 There are 16 voxels in a tile as Yankes just told us.

Then it's basically (not actually because zShift is complicated) multiplied by (voxelRange / 200), and capped to 1 if it's lower than 1.

The only question that remains is, why is Yankes saying the deviation is 10? It should be 1. 100-120+10 = -10, which will be capped to 1. 1 voxel deviation should never miss. Apparently however, my math should.
ups, I miss read code, I read `=` not `+=`, my mistaken. I will check what values exactly are used in some simple case
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Yankes on April 12, 2020, 11:04:42 pm
I make some tests, for rifle with 25% auto shots I get:
Code: [Select]

[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 78
[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] before target 71 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-43] [ERROR] after target 73 391 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 99
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] before target 71 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-44] [ERROR] after target 73 391 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] before target 71 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [ERROR] after target 71 393 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-45] [INFO] draw terrain: 410 micro seconds (avg: 388)
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 103
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] before target 87 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-52] [ERROR] after target 88 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-53] [INFO] draw terrain: 335 micro seconds (avg: 382)
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation -9
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] before target 87 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-54] [ERROR] after target 88 393 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 120
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] before target 87 392 12
[12-04-2020_21-56-55] [ERROR] after target 87 393 13
[12-04-2020_21-56-58] [INFO] draw terrain: 393 micro seconds (avg: 417)
[12-04-2020_21-57-05] [INFO] draw terrain: 621 micro seconds (avg: 582)
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 86
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-11] [ERROR] after target 214 75 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] after target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 125
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] max deviation 7
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [ERROR] after target 217 75 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-12] [INFO] draw terrain: 607 micro seconds (avg: 698)
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] accuracy 0.49
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.49
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] zShift 13 deviation -2
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] before target 215 56 35
[12-04-2020_21-57-13] [ERROR] after target 216 57 35
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] accuracy 0.49
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.49
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] zShift 13 deviation -35
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] before target 215 56 35
[12-04-2020_21-57-14] [ERROR] after target 216 56 35
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 99
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-17] [ERROR] after target 217 70 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 9
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-18] [ERROR] after target 216 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 64
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] max deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] after target 217 71 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] accuracy 0.44
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.44
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] zShift 13 deviation 80
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] before target 215 56 35
[12-04-2020_21-57-19] [ERROR] after target 218 55 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-20] [INFO] draw terrain: 638 micro seconds (avg: 702)
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 107
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] max deviation 6
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] after target 218 70 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-26] [ERROR] after target 215 73 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-27] [INFO] draw terrain: 642 micro seconds (avg: 692)
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 58
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] max deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] before target 215 72 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-28] [ERROR] after target 214 74 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation -15
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] before target 247 56 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-34] [ERROR] after target 247 56 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 85
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] max deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] before target 247 56 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-35] [ERROR] after target 248 56 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 6
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] before target 247 56 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-36] [ERROR] after target 247 56 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-41] [INFO] draw terrain: 705 micro seconds (avg: 670)
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 83
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] max deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] before target 263 88 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] after target 265 90 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 72
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] max deviation 2
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] before target 263 88 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-42] [ERROR] after target 262 87 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 59
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] max deviation 2
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] before target 263 88 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-44] [ERROR] after target 263 87 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-48] [INFO] draw terrain: 636 micro seconds (avg: 691)
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 117
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] before target 231 104 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-49] [ERROR] after target 229 104 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation -1
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] before target 231 104 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-50] [ERROR] after target 232 105 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 72
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] max deviation 2
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] before target 231 104 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-52] [ERROR] after target 230 103 36
[12-04-2020_21-57-54] [INFO] draw terrain: 660 micro seconds (avg: 695)
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] zShift 16 deviation 9
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] before target 408 54 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-01] [ERROR] after target 409 55 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [INFO] draw terrain: 518 micro seconds (avg: 586)
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] zShift 16 deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] before target 408 54 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-02] [ERROR] after target 408 54 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] zShift 16 deviation 61
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] before target 408 54 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-03] [ERROR] after target 407 53 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [INFO] draw terrain: 518 micro seconds (avg: 548)
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 65
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] max deviation 2
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] before target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-09] [ERROR] after target 407 71 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 102
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] before target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-10] [ERROR] after target 408 74 13
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] accuracy 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.25
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 111
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] max deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] before target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] after target 409 73 13
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] accuracy 0.18
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.18
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] zShift 10 deviation -3
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] before target 423 72 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-11] [ERROR] after target 423 73 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] accuracy 0.18
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.18
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] zShift 10 deviation 113
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] before target 423 72 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-12] [ERROR] after target 426 73 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] accuracy 0.18
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.18
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] zShift 10 deviation 102
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] before target 423 72 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-13] [ERROR] after target 421 73 11
[12-04-2020_21-58-16] [INFO] draw terrain: 719 micro seconds (avg: 563)
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 74
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] max deviation 2
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] before target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-20] [ERROR] after target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation 93
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] max deviation 3
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] before target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-21] [ERROR] after target 406 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] zShift 8 deviation -3
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] before target 407 72 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [ERROR] after target 408 73 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-23] [INFO] draw terrain: 545 micro seconds (avg: 562)
[12-04-2020_21-58-29] [INFO] draw terrain: 555 micro seconds (avg: 562)
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 116
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] max deviation 6
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] before target 391 232 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-33] [ERROR] after target 388 233 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 118
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] max deviation 7
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] before target 391 232 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-35] [ERROR] after target 390 235 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 4
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] max deviation 1
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] before target 391 232 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [ERROR] after target 392 232 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-36] [INFO] draw terrain: 540 micro seconds (avg: 591)
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 89
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] before target 391 264 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-41] [ERROR] after target 393 266 13
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 84
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] before target 391 264 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-42] [ERROR] after target 394 264 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [INFO] draw terrain: 650 micro seconds (avg: 571)
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] Start Hit
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] accuracy 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] accuracy after distance adjustment 0.21
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] zShift 12 deviation 99
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] max deviation 5
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] before target 391 264 12
[12-04-2020_21-58-43] [ERROR] after target 391 264 13
This is from vanilla game, shooting floaters point blank. 90% shots is from my rifle, but there are some plasma reaction shots too.

Overall I see that deviation is less than 5 usually and all hits lands on enemy. And looking on this test I could say that there impossible to miss from that range if any other effect do not play role.

[ps]

Names in log are same as variable in code, you can compare to code that calculate this effects
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: The Doer of Stuff on April 13, 2020, 02:08:00 am
In 1.32, I still need "Clinic Logs" to research Alien Infiltration-Clones,  which I need to progress along the alien embassy thing. I've stormed my third hybrid clinic, and while I've gotten a lot of refined humans and disguise machines and kidnapped citizens, no clinic logs. Do you get them somewhere else, or is there something you need to do with the clinic to prep them so that they yield clinic logs? Or have I simply gotten unlucky in loot draws?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 13, 2020, 02:26:11 am
Maybe chupas are likely to be missed in close-quarters with 122% accuracy because there is a voxel near their center-of-mass voxel which is empty. Think about it, they have that arching form, independent legs. Some other observations:

The stats here seem to suggest to me that cover and size will only be effective at blocking/dodging misses. Each deviation causes 0.08 "max deviation" so real voxel deviation, divided by 2 since it's split between negative and positive. In order for 0-10 "grazes" to cover the whole  block, you would have to go to about 50 tiles, so that 5*50*0.04 = 10. Half the block might be more reasonable, at 25 tiles, but that's still pretty crazy range for just a 10% reduction. Theoretically 10% can be noticeable with machine guns that only have 10% CTH anyways.

However chance to roll a miss but hit anyway is significant at most ranges. With average "max deviation of 4",  which again is really 2 due to the positive-negative split, at 8 tiles range you still have a 1/3rd chance to hit the target tile if you miss. And cover/size is totally effective at stopping that, since it can hit any voxel on the tile. So oddly enough cover is probably better for close range.

All of this is false if you have cover that's one voxel away from your center of mass though, because then it will block 33% of a hit and 50% of a miss. That's just very rare. Less rare when you kneel below cover that then rises above your gun. On that note, do aliens still try to shoot if they have no LoF to the center of mass? You know, a player can get the "No line of fire!" message but know it's wrong and choose to shoot anyways, can the aliens? I doubt it, but if so cover could be broken, and there was one mission in XCF where I felt like the cover was blocking the vast majority of the shots.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thunderwing280 on April 13, 2020, 02:58:02 pm
In 1.32, I still need "Clinic Logs" to research Alien Infiltration-Clones,  which I need to progress along the alien embassy thing. I've stormed my third hybrid clinic, and while I've gotten a lot of refined humans and disguise machines and kidnapped citizens, no clinic logs. Do you get them somewhere else, or is there something you need to do with the clinic to prep them so that they yield clinic logs? Or have I simply gotten unlucky in loot draws?
Yeah I remember talking about this a while ago, unfortunately you just have to keep doing the missions until you get them, just try not to damage the building so they won't get destroyed is the best advice sadly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mr. Mister on April 13, 2020, 09:46:31 pm
Maybe chupas are likely to be missed in close-quarters with 122% accuracy because there is a voxel near their center-of-mass voxel which is empty. Think about it, they have that arching form, independent legs.

Honestly if that's the reason it's such bullshit that I'm not even mad, but impressed, and would want a relevant mention in their UFOpedia entry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on April 13, 2020, 10:51:26 pm
Maybe in their autopsy entry, something like "This creature appears to have adapted to hide where it's body really is, allowing our soldiers to think they hit it but actually miss."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Meridian on April 13, 2020, 11:09:37 pm
This is how the game sees a chupacabra in XCF 1.3... purple thing.

Unless there are more chupacabras, I don't see any "missing voxel" in the centre of mass.

PS: on the second screenshot, for comparison, an agent in orange color
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on April 14, 2020, 01:50:23 am
Eh? I thought the voxels were sprite-based? Only for objects and not units?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 14, 2020, 03:38:34 pm
Eh? I thought the voxels were sprite-based? Only for objects and not units?

Yes, exactly.
All units are cylinders with defined height. Also, we have small cylinders for targets like Sectoids (or chupas), medium for humans, large for things like Mutons or powered armours.
(Technically we could select a different shape to represent a unit, but it will still be a 2D shape with added height; so instead of a circle you could select a square or something. But it would cause weird effects without giving any real advantages.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: The Doer of Stuff on April 16, 2020, 06:00:50 am
Does XCF retain the "Snakemen never have medics"  that vanilla X-Com has? If so, is it possible to research Snakeman Medics the tech?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 16, 2020, 05:07:59 pm
Does XCF retain the "Snakemen never have medics"  that vanilla X-Com has? If so, is it possible to research Snakeman Medics the tech?

No, there are no Snakeman Medics in XCF, and no associated research.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 20, 2020, 04:07:19 pm
I am in month 66 (June 2002), all research available researched (except optional research), nearly 4 Billion in the bank, and total air superiority around the globe.

Month after month, there are UFOs interceptions, and the other odd mission.

What are the chances to actually advance the campaign in a given month? I attached the game save for reference.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on April 21, 2020, 07:00:09 am
I am in month 66 (June 2002), all research available researched (except optional research), nearly 4 Billion in the bank, and total air superiority around the globe.

Month after month, there are UFOs interceptions, and the other odd mission.

What are the chances to actually advance the campaign in a given month? I attached the game save for reference.

Didn't you unlock missions on the Moon?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 21, 2020, 03:49:23 pm
Didn't you unlock missions on the Moon?

That's what I thought. But after getting a couple of missions (helping MAGMA Cosmonauts, I think), nothing happened after that. And the stunned enemies were not recoverable.

I have updated the mod mid-campaign. I could have broken something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on April 21, 2020, 03:53:23 pm
That's what I thought. But after getting a couple of missions (helping MAGMA Cosmonauts, I think), nothing happened after that. And the stunned enemies were not recoverable.

I have updated the mod mid-campaign. I could have broken something.

You need to interrogate ethereal-commander to start Moon arc of main quest. And build a satellite, of course.
Members of Black Sun cannot be interrogated, cuz this arc is unfinished yet...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 21, 2020, 04:53:39 pm
Oh! The elusive Ethereal Commander. I thought I captured one. Checking my save, it seems one of my soldiers killed one.

I guess I have to wait for a Battleship full of Ethereals for him(her/it) to show up again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on April 23, 2020, 11:25:54 am
In August 2000, I finaly developed Power Suits. I am not sure if it is relatively early or late, but having to fight aliens with just Cyber armors has been annoying. It did often stop people from dying, but they tend to get seriously wounded. I am not even sure, if my main base has enough healthy agents to field a full Skymarshall.
Regardless, in two hours of in-game time, elerium will arrive to my factory, and then the mass-production will start. Agents will be better protected. And Floaters will rue the days, they built bases on Earth.

A question though. How am I supposed to keep the skies clear, when the aliens can field several strikers and 2 or 3 battleships in a single day? (Alien Flyby missions) I can shoot a battleship down, but it pretty much empties missile racks of 4 Thunderstorms. Thunderstorm beats Striker, but the Thunderstorm gets damaged.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 23, 2020, 03:43:38 pm
A question though. How am I supposed to keep the skies clear, when the aliens can field several strikers and 2 or 3 battleships in a single day? (Alien Flyby missions) I can shoot a battleship down, but it pretty much empties missile racks of 4 Thunderstorms. Thunderstorm beats Striker, but the Thunderstorm gets damaged.
I'd try to rush Avengers. In my late campaign I have complete air superiority, with three Avengers, armed with plasma beams and a shield generator. One of these crafts is enough to take down a Battleship single-handed. The drawback is they use quite a lot of Elerium as fuel and as ammo, so a steady supply needs to be secured. I do still keep Thunderstorms armed with Avalanches, thrusters and targeters, to deal with smaller crafts, for when the Elerium runs low.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on April 23, 2020, 04:00:54 pm
I am already researching the "Ultimate Craft". (I can already build the Tormentor, but my best cannon is Alloy Cannon, so that would be pretty useless.) But I only built my first Advanced Lab a few days ago and prioritised Power Suits over Plasma Calibration.

Plasma Calibration is next of course, to get all that Elerium out of alien clips. Then I could
A) Build Stormlances, which are significantly stronger than Stingrays (What I use).
B) Get Develop Plasma Beams and mount them on Avenger(s).

I could also develop shields and mount both shields and Plasma onto Firestorms to make them useful.

But until I had Advanced Lab, I could not even think of making Plasma Beams and Stormlances were too expensive. And the aliens were fielding many Strikers and some Battleships for some time now. Battleships are uncommon and multiple Battleships in the same day is rare, but it happens sometimes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 23, 2020, 07:18:27 pm
I only built one Tormentor. It major advantage is it can outrun pretty much anything. Its major disadvantage is it uses Elerium as fuel, seconded by it uses two pilots.
I use Avalanches as my main missile. Since they can be bought, it simplifies logistics and production in general. One Thunderstorm can carry up to six Avalanches. A Striker UFO can be downed with four to five Avalanches hits, then it flies back for reloading. A Fighter UFO can be shoot down with two or three hits. A tiny fighter only needs one.

In my last two campaigns (this one and the one before), I found that these two crafts are all what I need to win the air war with the Aliens. And while I wait for the elusive Ethereal Commander, most of my game is coordinating the UFOs interdiction on a global scale.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 23, 2020, 07:20:52 pm
A question though. How am I supposed to keep the skies clear, when the aliens can field several strikers and 2 or 3 battleships in a single day? (Alien Flyby missions)

Flyby missions happen when you shoot down their ships. Don't shoot down UFOs, and you won't provoke retaliations. :)
(As usual, catching landed UFOs is OK.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Alex_D on April 23, 2020, 07:34:09 pm
Flyby missions happen when you shoot down their ships. Don't shoot down UFOs, and you won't provoke retaliations. :)
(As usual, catching landed UFOs is OK.)

And is it safe to assume that shooting down the UFO Flybys would create even more Flybys, almost in a run-away situation, or there is a cap for these cases?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on April 23, 2020, 08:42:36 pm
Flyby missions happen when you shoot down their ships. Don't shoot down UFOs, and you won't provoke retaliations. :)
(As usual, catching landed UFOs is OK.)

I did not realise that Flyby was equal to Retaliation. :D
The tons of Flybys I was getting was from shooting the Flybys in previous months then. Does the alien species that does the Flyby depend on the angered species?
If yes, it would probably explain why it is almost always Floaters. They do many Flybys, I shoot most of them down, this angers them, so they do many Flybys.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 23, 2020, 10:36:54 pm
Retaliations don't provoke further retaliations.

As for the race, can't remember exactly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: DarthTheIII on April 25, 2020, 08:16:46 am
How do you start the lunar story line?  I have launched the lunar satellite, but four months have passed and I still have only done the Magma Cosmonaut mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on April 25, 2020, 09:09:48 am
How do you start the lunar story line?  I have launched the lunar satellite, but four months have passed and I still have only done the Magma Cosmonaut mission.

You should interrogate ethereal commander.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 26, 2020, 03:49:17 pm
Hello. I passed X-piratez. I can say one thing-X-files is better. Thank you Scorch for such a wonderful project. But there are things in Piratez that are very lacking in Files.                               
                   1-the Tanks.Instead of a rangefinder, a weapon, such as a machine gun, is installed. It is convenient when you need to kill something weak, but not to blow up the environment. In Piratez, you can make two shots from a gun or three bursts from a machine gun. This is very convenient. Also, in Piratez, a tank is a tank. It is well armored, and it will not be able to break through with a plasma pistol or rifle, but the cyberdisk is still a serious opponent. Please strengthen the armor of the tank, at least up to 120 in the forehead, so that it is useful, and does not fall apart from 3 hits of a plasma rifle.                                                     
                   2-Disguise.I was very surprised by this in Piratez. It's really useful there. Why not add a sniper costume to the Files that would give a good disguise and allow the player to use snipers. In Files, at night, the aliens see me in the corner of the map as during the day, not allowing me to implement a weapon like a Tactical sniper rifle. This is upsetting.                                             
                    3-Damage. In Piratez, you can feel the damage from weapons. In Files, it is very low. For example, I will give you a Tactical sniper rifle. To use it to kill a sectoid, you need 1-2 shots. It is assumed that this is a large-caliber rifle. A bullet of this caliber should pass through the sectoid's shield without a problem, and its head should pop like a watermelon.                     
                     This is my feeling when comparing these two projects. Thank you Scorch again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 26, 2020, 04:55:12 pm
1-the Tanks.Instead of a rangefinder, a weapon, such as a machine gun, is installed. It is convenient when you need to kill something weak, but not to blow up the environment. In Piratez, you can make two shots from a gun or three bursts from a machine gun. This is very convenient. Also, in Piratez, a tank is a tank. It is well armored, and it will not be able to break through with a plasma pistol or rifle, but the cyberdisk is still a serious opponent. Please strengthen the armor of the tank, at least up to 120 in the forehead, so that it is useful, and does not fall apart from 3 hits of a plasma rifle.

Well, this is more for the Piratez thread... :)

2-Disguise.I was very surprised by this in Piratez. It's really useful there. Why not add a sniper costume to the Files that would give a good disguise and allow the player to use snipers. In Files, at night, the aliens see me in the corner of the map as during the day, not allowing me to implement a weapon like a Tactical sniper rifle. This is upsetting.

But there are very good stealth suits in XCF, primarily the humble jumpsuit with 10 camo during the day. Anything more would just be too much to handle by the poor AI.

3-Damage. In Piratez, you can feel the damage from weapons. In Files, it is very low. For example, I will give you a Tactical sniper rifle. To use it to kill a sectoid, you need 1-2 shots. It is assumed that this is a large-caliber rifle. A bullet of this caliber should pass through the sectoid's shield without a problem, and its head should pop like a watermelon.

Says who, and based on what?
Having said that, sniper rifles will be better in 1.4 - they will never roll very low damage.

This is my feeling when comparing these two projects. Thank you Scorch again.

Thank you as well!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 26, 2020, 06:15:55 pm
Scorh, you say that the machine gun in the tank is more for the theme of Piratez, but after all, all tanks in the world have a paired or anti-aircraft machine gun. This is realistic at least. On the other hand, why can't a tank have a machine gun? After all, it is necessary to destroy infantry, and the gun is needed to fight armored targets.                                                                           
                  As for the camouflage, I only saw the coveralls. Is there something else I haven't seen? You could add a camouflage robe. It would have provided excellent camouflage, but it greatly reduced mobility. Approximately-60-70% of the action points.This would only be enough to occupy a sniper position and conduct shooting, but not for active actions.                 
                  About weapons.I would like to remind you again about the redesign of VSS. I could suggest a modification of this weapon, if I may. Also, why not add AS VAL to the game. Just cut off the sight from the VSS sprite. You may ask why it is needed? It would be nice to make this weapon an interesting property-reducing the reaction of the target. I will explain this by the fact that this weapon has an integrated silencer. Agree, it is more difficult to return fire on the enemy when you do not hear where they are shooting from.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 26, 2020, 06:32:25 pm
Aaaaa do something about this idiotic indentation on both ends, fixing it drives me crazy.

Scorh, you say that the machine gun in the tank is more for the theme of Piratez, but after all, all tanks in the world have a paired or anti-aircraft machine gun. This is realistic at least. On the other hand, why can't a tank have a machine gun? After all, it is necessary to destroy infantry, and the gun is needed to fight armored targets.
                                                                       

Ah sorry, I thought you were referring to tanks in Piratez!
1) I can add light weapons to tanks, but they would have to have unlimited ammo, and this is a bit meh.
2) Making tanks tougher would be way too OP. Why use anything else then? In Piratez you have a completely different balance, not to mention having Space Marines as your basic soldier type.

As for the camouflage, I only saw the coveralls. Is there something else I haven't seen? You could add a camouflage robe. It would have provided excellent camouflage, but it greatly reduced mobility. Approximately-60-70% of the action points.This would only be enough to occupy a sniper position and conduct shooting, but not for active actions.

Might be a thing, yeah. Making outfits is a lot of work, though. Maybe later.

About weapons.I would like to remind you again about the redesign of VSS. I could suggest a modification of this weapon, if I may.

You may.

Also, why not add AS VAL to the game. Just cut off the sight from the VSS sprite. You may ask why it is needed? It would be nice to make this weapon an interesting property-reducing the reaction of the target. I will explain this by the fact that this weapon has an integrated silencer. Agree, it is more difficult to return fire on the enemy when you do not hear where they are shooting from.

I already have at least 30 guns waiting to be added, already with graphics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 26, 2020, 08:26:48 pm
In the game, the VSS is presented as a sniper rifle, which requires huge skills to be used effectively. In fact, this is complete garbage, even in the hands of a professional. Terrible accuracy, completely unfounded.

My offer.
To start, change the reaction damage bonus to an accuracy bonus of 0.20-0.25 for adequate damage. The 9.39 caliber cartridge is more deadly than the 7.62 AK cartridge.

Change the initial accuracy to good. 35.75.125 (queue, offhand, aiming). Since this weapon was made for special forces, it should be easy and convenient to use. Especially weapons that were produced in the Soviet Union and Russia(the best in the world for simplicity and reliability). Such low accuracy is unjustified. The accuracy bonus changes by 0.2 of the shooting accuracy.

Ignoring the armor is left because of the features of the SP-6 ammunition.

Make a target range of 20-25 cells.The weapon is designed for urban combat, not long-range shooting.

Add a special feature to the weapon-reducing the reaction of the enemy.Because of the built-in silencer, it will be very difficult for the enemy to determine the location of the shooter and return fire.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 26, 2020, 08:44:43 pm
Scorch, I think you're wrong about tank armor. If a tank has no armor, how does it differ from a soldier with a grenade launcher? I'm not saying that it should become unkillable.But the tank should not be made of paper. You will object by saying that you will use it against people. But at the moment when the player gets the tank, the invasion begins. I have never managed to reach the tanks before 1999. At this point, all cults are affected, and only hybrids and aliens remain. Fight with a tank only with hybrids? It's not cool. And the aliens break his armor with a plasma rifle with 3 shots and destroy him. This is terrible. I have nothing against the fact that the tank is pierced with heavy plasma from 1 shot. This weapon humiliates the sectopods.But let the tank's frontal armor hold ordinary plasma. At least for a while. As it is, it is completely useless.

When a player creates their own sectopod, they don't need anything else. Fighters are only needed to clean up the ships. The robot will do the rest. A sectopod player gets after meeting with the People in Black. This is very early. The player has not yet fought with ethereals, but is already running with ultimatum killer robots.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 26, 2020, 08:57:08 pm
Also, there is a suggestion. At the moment, there are 2 models in the tank branch. First comes the regular, then the hover. How do you look at adding an advanced version of a regular tank. It would have more armor than a hovertank. But he couldn't fly because of big weight. I don't think it will take much time to sprite. You just need to paint a regular tank in blue.(like a UFO). This would give the player a choice between survivability and mobility
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 26, 2020, 09:31:08 pm
Also, please make more frequent terror attacks of aliens, as well as more noticeable fines for their admission. For my last pass (5 difficulty), you may not believe me, but I did not fight off any terror. I missed them all and it didn't affect my game in any way. It is enough to bring down a couple of resource collectors and the lost rating is recaptured. I just don't feel any penalties. In Piratez, however, skipping terror hurts your rating so much that you have to fly to it, and that's cool.

I can imagine the situation:
-Commander! The (name of the city) was attacked by aliens! They're killing civilians!
-I don't care about people, fighter! We'll shoot down a couple of ships, and the Council will be happy! We will say that we shot down 2 collectors and the Council will forget about 100-200 dead civilians!
-You are very clever, commander!
- Of course, why risk in battle, if you can not risk, and shoot down a few UFOs!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 27, 2020, 12:41:40 pm
1) Tanks aren't made of paper. It is typical player bias. Making them stronger would ruin the balance.
2) The VSS has reaction-based bonus because it's a commando weapon. (I based it off Okim's ACM Mod for UFO: Aftershock, same with the Groza.) And low accuracy only applies to chumps.
3) "Add a special feature to the weapon-reducing the reaction of the enemy." Lol how?
4) Hovertanks being well armoured is kinda canon, I'm not willing to break it. But hovertanks are less accurate due to lack of proper footage.
5) More terror missions is an option, we'll see.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 27, 2020, 03:17:20 pm
Scorch, now VSS is useless junk. It must be changed. I compared VSS and SVD. VSS can only be found in the most difficult missions of Red Dawn, SVD falls from the pioneers, and it is very easy to get it. SVD has a 0.2 accuracy damage bonus. At 100 accuracy, the damage will be equal to 50.What does it take to get the same damage from VSS? The desired characteristics of the unthinkable, just to get closer to these values.Also, SVD has a good initial accuracy, it is very convenient to use this weapon with nubasami. And here's the question-why do I need VSS in the game? It's a piece of useless junk. In fact, it should have slightly better characteristics than the Bo automatic sniper, except for the range. The Bo automatic sniper is superior to VSS in everything,and you can get it very early and very easily.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 27, 2020, 03:27:15 pm
Besides the VSS, the g-11 is also a useless weapon.To use it effectively, you need to be the bravest person on the planet. There are 2 ways to get a high bravery value. 1-force soldiers to fall under the sectoid psi-panic. 2-to fly a plane. By this time, the G-11 is no longer needed. Or you should be lucky with the characteristics when hiring.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on April 27, 2020, 04:18:09 pm
And here's the question-why do I need VSS in the game?

VSS is concealable weapon, that's the main feature. It is the only sniper rifle which could be taken to common undercover missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 27, 2020, 05:01:23 pm
I don't know about you, but I only go on special operations at night.Shooting during the day is certain death. On operations, the enemy is superior to XCOM in weapons and armor, so there is only one thing to do-use the darkness. In this situation, a gun and throwing knives are 100 times more useful than VSS, which can easily miss. And in special operations, mistakes are not forgiven. 1 shot and the agent is dead. Therefore, you will use only those things that you are sure of and that will not let you down.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on April 27, 2020, 06:17:15 pm
I don't know about you, but I only go on special operations at night.Shooting during the day is certain death. On operations, the enemy is superior to XCOM in weapons and armor, so there is only one thing to do-use the darkness. In this situation, a gun and throwing knives are 100 times more useful than VSS, which can easily miss. And in special operations, mistakes are not forgiven. 1 shot and the agent is dead. Therefore, you will use only those things that you are sure of and that will not let you down.

The question was not about tactics, but about usefulness of VSS. Some people do their work with knives and fire extinguishers. Is that mean the other weapons are useless junk? I think not. If you find something useless, some people could not share your opinion. :P Not to mention SVD and VSS are non-standart weapons and BlackOps' ones are more effective in the hands of trained snipers. Arasaka 3000 is more effective than SVD if you want some precision rifle to your non-trained squad.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 27, 2020, 11:37:46 pm
Scorch, please tell me how long to wait for the 1.4 update? Will it be large, or will it add a little content? Also, I would like to know what's going on with the Lunar Reich? Are you working on it or is it just in the plans?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 27, 2020, 11:39:04 pm
Tell me where to get MP-40 (messer) and MG-3?I met MG-3 in the game once, but I don't remember where. And I didn't find MP-40 at all, although there is one on the wiki.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 28, 2020, 12:33:25 pm
Scorch, please tell me how long to wait for the 1.4 update? Will it be large, or will it add a little content?

Can't tell you the exact timeframe, it depends on a number of issues like unfinished features, serious bugs in the previous version, or state of translations. I usually release every 1 - 2 months. But you can use the GitHub version and get an update every day! :)
https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/archive/master.zip - just replace the mod folder with this.


Also, I would like to know what's going on with the Lunar Reich? Are you working on it or is it just in the plans?

Yes, there are some plans, but not in the near future. I want to tackle Cult of Apocalypse, UAC and MiB next.

Tell me where to get MP-40 (messer) and MG-3?I met MG-3 in the game once, but I don't remember where. And I didn't find MP-40 at all, although there is one on the wiki.

I guess boxes are your best bet at the moment. These weapons aren't popular.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on April 28, 2020, 04:01:02 pm
Scorch, you say you want to do UAC. Does this mean that BFG9000 will appear in the game? If so, this is great news!  :) Also, with regard to UAC. We will fight them, because they have opened a portal to hell. Will there be an event when XCOM launches military actions against UAC, after which UAC products will disappear from the store? It would be illogical if the UAC were to sell its weapons to the enemy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Yankes on April 28, 2020, 10:32:13 pm
3) "Add a special feature to the weapon-reducing the reaction of the enemy." Lol how?
There is script that calculate reaction-score, with this you can make that enemy will miss some reaction shoot opportunists.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 30, 2020, 08:02:02 pm
Scorch, you say you want to do UAC. Does this mean that BFG9000 will appear in the game? If so, this is great news!  :)

.....maybeee... ;)

Also, with regard to UAC. We will fight them, because they have opened a portal to hell. Will there be an event when XCOM launches military actions against UAC, after which UAC products will disappear from the store? It would be illogical if the UAC were to sell its weapons to the enemy.

All this remains to be seen. I don't have a clear vision yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on May 02, 2020, 02:35:26 pm
 Scorch, I have this question. Will there be more advanced psionic weapons in the game? I'm not talking about amps that allow you to control your opponents, but things that do damage. What we have now looks very primitive. Staffs-as if I was in ancient times, where shamans with staffs conduct rituals. The Lotus glove is an interesting weapon, but the range is too short. Will there be an alien psionic weapon? For example, perhaps there is something in the ethereals? Some kind of sphere that concentrates psi energy and releases a death ray? Taking control is fun, but it's annoying and addictive. Then you can't do without it. I want an alternative. Some device that deals psi damage (destructively hits the victim's mind, killing it) or a psi-energy concentrator that shoots psionic beams. What do you say?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on May 02, 2020, 03:31:22 pm
i´d prefer that a lot, compared to psi as is. by design its just way too OP... lategame psi is basically the only thing that matters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mrvex on May 02, 2020, 11:41:45 pm
Machineguns on tanks would be nice for picking off enemies, but i think these could be only present on tanks that have splash weapons and other tank types could have a ramming melee attack that would do some serious kinetic damage and could be used for reaction attacks in melee.

And there could even be a dedicated dozer-like tank with chemical cannon (Which could start off as tear gas launcher but could be upgraded to Alien chems after their gardens are sold off to MAGMA) on top and dozer blade as its melee weapon with massive frontal armour and really weak side armour. Sectopods could have a stomp ability or electric discharge like in XCOM 2
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 02, 2020, 11:59:21 pm
Scorch, I have this question. Will there be more advanced psionic weapons in the game? I'm not talking about amps that allow you to control your opponents, but things that do damage. What we have now looks very primitive. Staffs-as if I was in ancient times, where shamans with staffs conduct rituals. The Lotus glove is an interesting weapon, but the range is too short. Will there be an alien psionic weapon? For example, perhaps there is something in the ethereals? Some kind of sphere that concentrates psi energy and releases a death ray? Taking control is fun, but it's annoying and addictive. Then you can't do without it. I want an alternative. Some device that deals psi damage (destructively hits the victim's mind, killing it) or a psi-energy concentrator that shoots psionic beams. What do you say?

I don't have any concrete plans, but who knows, psi cannons might happen at some point.
The main problem is that our enemy is rather, umm, conservative with technology... So it's easy to surpass them.

And I'm not going to forbid mind control, it's too important for X-Com as a setting. I've already nerfed it a lot.

Machineguns on tanks would be nice for picking off enemies, but i think these could be only present on tanks that have splash weapons and other tank types could have a ramming melee attack that would do some serious kinetic damage and could be used for reaction attacks in melee.

The problem is that the secondary weapon must have unlimited ammo.

And there could even be a dedicated dozer-like tank with chemical cannon (Which could start off as tear gas launcher but could be upgraded to Alien chems after their gardens are sold off to MAGMA) on top and dozer blade as its melee weapon with massive frontal armour and really weak side armour.

Sure, doable.

Sectopods could have a stomp ability or electric discharge like in XCOM 2

Doable as a special melee attack.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on May 03, 2020, 12:47:41 am
Scorch, you may have misunderstood me, but I didn't say that taking control should be removed. I mean, when you use this feature, it's addictive. You start taking control of your enemies, and you think, " wow, this is awesome!" After that, you can't give it up, because it's so convenient.

What about the tanks. You say that additional weapons must have infinite ammo. But in Piratez, the machine gun runs out of ammo. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how to do this, but maybe Dioxine can help?

Also, about the psi-weapons. If the aliens don't do this, then maybe XCOM will develop it itself? After all, someone made The Lotus glove. XCOM could disassemble such devices, understand how they work, and then create its own version of psi weapons. After the player has disassembled and studied the available psi weapons(gloves, staffs), they will be able to discover the technology for building their models. Of course, this requires the best laboratory. And what happens next depends only on your imagination.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on May 03, 2020, 01:01:30 am

What about the tanks. You say that additional weapons must have infinite ammo. But in Piratez, the machine gun runs out of ammo. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how to do this, but maybe Dioxine can help?


Which vehicle in Piratez have two weapons? All of the Armored Vehicles and Tanks have only one main cannon and thats it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on May 03, 2020, 02:09:54 am
JustTheDude, if you played Piratez, you should know that the tank has a machine gun(or other auxiliary weapons) in addition to the gun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mrvex on May 03, 2020, 08:07:17 pm
I would like to request a small (maybe ?) but convenient QoL feature, would it be possible to have some more obvious sign that enemy has surrendered ? Like i dont expect sprites for them to kneel and put their hands up but maybe a small white flag above their head ?

I am asking for this because in the heat of the battle i get to mow down people that were trying to surrender because i have no idea if they panicked before and are weaponless due to that or if they surrendered and wont pick up that rifle lying over there and shoot my soldier in the back if i leave them alone.



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on May 03, 2020, 08:28:54 pm
Mrvex, just because an enemy gives up doesn't mean they won't fight anymore. The enemy simply panicked. The panicked person is added to the list of"surrenders". If only the "surrenders" are left on the map, then you win and get prisoners. Therefore, do not write off the panicked from the accounts, on the next move they can throw a grenade at you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Slaughter on May 03, 2020, 10:00:07 pm
Dunno about you guys, but I always throw away the weapons of stunned enemies. Let's see them retrieve their guns on the roof.

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 04, 2020, 01:46:19 pm
Scorch, you may have misunderstood me, but I didn't say that taking control should be removed. I mean, when you use this feature, it's addictive. You start taking control of your enemies, and you think, " wow, this is awesome!" After that, you can't give it up, because it's so convenient.

True, which is why I added some features to make it less attractive, mostly massive drains.

What about the tanks. You say that additional weapons must have infinite ammo. But in Piratez, the machine gun runs out of ammo. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how to do this, but maybe Dioxine can help?

Actually, you're right - this should be possible now, since tanks are no longer HWPs (I forgot). It's just a lot of work I am not motivated for.

Also, about the psi-weapons. If the aliens don't do this, then maybe XCOM will develop it itself? After all, someone made The Lotus glove. XCOM could disassemble such devices, understand how they work, and then create its own version of psi weapons. After the player has disassembled and studied the available psi weapons(gloves, staffs), they will be able to discover the technology for building their models. Of course, this requires the best laboratory. And what happens next depends only on your imagination.

Possible, yeah.

I would like to request a small (maybe ?) but convenient QoL feature, would it be possible to have some more obvious sign that enemy has surrendered ? Like i dont expect sprites for them to kneel and put their hands up but maybe a small white flag above their head ?

This is a question to the developers, not me. :)

I am asking for this because in the heat of the battle i get to mow down people that were trying to surrender because i have no idea if they panicked before and are weaponless due to that or if they surrendered and wont pick up that rifle lying over there and shoot my soldier in the back if i leave them alone.

Well, IMO having this knowledge would be too good and also boring as hell.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on May 04, 2020, 01:59:08 pm
Machineguns on tanks would be nice for picking off enemies, but i think these could be only present on tanks that have splash weapons and other tank types could have a ramming melee attack that would do some serious kinetic damage and could be used for reaction attacks in melee.

And there could even be a dedicated dozer-like tank with chemical cannon (Which could start off as tear gas launcher but could be upgraded to Alien chems after their gardens are sold off to MAGMA) on top and dozer blade as its melee weapon with massive frontal armour and really weak side armour. Sectopods could have a stomp ability or electric discharge like in XCOM 2

..or, even better, with tank°ish´flamenthrower, - just as exist such tanks in realy, or also as in CC.games, too

(Command & Conquer series)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on May 04, 2020, 03:14:04 pm
Scorch, I want to reset you again about an important topic for me. Will the system for opening Gauss weapons be reworked? So that it starts with the study of mass accelerators, and does not require a meeting with reptilians,as it is very difficult to reach them, as well as to get an underground mission. It's just very strange that it's much easier to develop a laser weapon than a Gauss. Although the principle of operation of Gauss weapons has long been known to mankind(Wikipedia). What is missing is a compact power source, which we will learn how to create from the aliens. It's the same with mass accelerators. Their discovery should not require finding samples of these weapons,because kinetic weapons, compared to laser weapons,are very primitive, and people already know how it works. The only problem is the power source.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on May 04, 2020, 07:09:11 pm
its not that simple at all.
Not only the power source, but also proper materials.
Sure we could do now a gauss rifle (and put it on a power cord...), its just gonna weight a ton. Mass accelerators have the problem of wearing out really fast. As in "shoot once and spend a lot of time preparing the thing to ever fire a again"...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: INFERNO on May 04, 2020, 09:08:26 pm
TheCurse, are you talking about materials? The alien alloy can solve all the problems. The problem is in the source of energy, which is solved by opening the elerium battery. If you have read its description, you should understand what potential it has. If humanity can invent a very compact and very powerful energy source, then we will see Gauss weapons and laser machine guns in real life. In the game, this source is an eleria battery. About weight-in the game Gauss weapons weigh a lot. Heavy options without a special suit can not be lifted. So it's all right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on May 04, 2020, 11:12:58 pm
its not that simple at all.
Not only the power source, but also proper materials.
Sure we could do now a gauss rifle (and put it on a power cord...), its just gonna weight a ton. Mass accelerators have the problem of wearing out really fast. As in "shoot once and spend a lot of time preparing the thing to ever fire a again"...

here we go: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=railgun+test

*ElMag railGun, "electro-magnetic"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on May 05, 2020, 04:34:48 am
That doesn't really prove anything because there are military laser prototypes too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 05, 2020, 12:53:02 pm
..or, even better, with tank°ish´flamenthrower, - just as exist such tanks in realy, or also as in CC.games, too

(Command & Conquer series)

What's wrong with the one already in the mod?

Scorch, I want to reset you again about an important topic for me.

...BRZZZT... Resetting...

GOOD MORNING MASTER. WHAT IS YOUR QUERY TODAY?

Will the system for opening Gauss weapons be reworked?

Yes, probably. But not very soon, I'm working on the Apocalypse at the moment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: BlindWatcher on May 07, 2020, 04:42:16 am
I hardly need to tell the team XCOM Files is my new addiction, but that new addiction comes with one very severe frustration: namely, the research bottleneck created by Chief Engineer.

On paper it's simple enough. Get Reaper corpse, research 'cool alien gadget', then get Chief Engineer. Very simple.

In practice I have spent several games completely dry of Reapers up until the 1999 invasion, at which point I just quit in frustration. It seems to be pure luck whether you get the right 'strange creature sighting' mission or not, and I tend to get nothing but zombies. When I first started playing, I loved the sheer variety of these cryptids, but now I utterly hate them because these missions don't advance the tech tree in the exact but extremely necessary way that I need it to; and I'm just sitting on several (military assisted) crashed UFOs with parts and corpses; none of which seem to be interesting enough to any Chief Engineers because the right "cybermutant" hasn't come along.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic here. But please hear me out on my proposed solution:

The following are the dependencies for 'cool alien gadget':
- Obliterator (don't know why this is so low in the tech tree, never seen one)
- Reaper
- Sectoid Autopsy (surely seeing a literal alien that clearly cannot survive without artificial means given its vestigial organs should get SOMEONE curious as to all the alien tech out there)
- Orison goon, or related Orison object (this faction is the 'humans with tech too advanced for them' group, so why not have them segway into the alien tech tree)

I do think that you should earn your way up the tech tree, be reasonably able to make it to Promotion II before 1999, and furthermore not be conditioned to hate the cryptid missions simply because the sheer variety they offer is in any way a "distraction". I think we can all agree that the player should not sit there and say to themselves "if I don't get a reaper in this mission, I'm just going to turn off the game" over and over again; because that was very much my experience. Increasing the frequency of Reapers is not desirable to me, as I feel that Reapers should be a rare "wild" alien early in the game; despite the tech tree problems that rarity brings. Expand the prerequisite options, don't diminish the wow factor of Reapers.


Edit: It's a bug apparently.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: X-Man on May 07, 2020, 02:56:25 pm
I hardly need to tell the team XCOM Files is my new addiction, but that new addiction comes with one very severe frustration: namely, the research bottleneck created by Chief Engineer.

On paper it's simple enough. Get Reaper corpse, research 'cool alien gadget', then get Chief Engineer. Very simple.

In practice I have spent several games completely dry of Reapers up until the 1999 invasion, at which point I just quit in frustration. It seems to be pure luck whether you get the right 'strange creature sighting' mission or not, and I tend to get nothing but zombies. When I first started playing, I loved the sheer variety of these cryptids, but now I utterly hate them because these missions don't advance the tech tree in the exact but extremely necessary way that I need it to; and I'm just sitting on several (military assisted) crashed UFOs with parts and corpses; none of which seem to be interesting enough to any Chief Engineers because the right "cybermutant" hasn't come along.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic here. But please hear me out on my proposed solution:

The following are the dependencies for 'cool alien gadget':
- Obliterator (don't know why this is so low in the tech tree, never seen one)
- Reaper
- Sectoid Autopsy (surely seeing a literal alien that clearly cannot survive without artificial means given its vestigial organs should get SOMEONE curious as to all the alien tech out there)
- Orison goon, or related Orison object (this faction is the 'humans with tech too advanced for them' group, so why not have them segway into the alien tech tree)

I do think that you should earn your way up the tech tree, be reasonably able to make it to Promotion II before 1999, and furthermore not be conditioned to hate the cryptid missions simply because the sheer variety they offer is in any way a "distraction". I think we can all agree that the player should not sit there and say to themselves "if I don't get a reaper in this mission, I'm just going to turn off the game" over and over again; because that was very much my experience. Increasing the frequency of Reapers is not desirable to me, as I feel that Reapers should be a rare "wild" alien early in the game; despite the tech tree problems that rarity brings. Expand the prerequisite options, don't diminish the wow factor of Reapers.

No-no-no, forget about reapers and others. The easiest way to get a cool alien gadget is to loot psiclone from EXALT soldiers. There are also another CAG-items in the game, check tech tree (press Q on geoscape screen).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on May 07, 2020, 03:03:11 pm
No-no-no, forget about reapers and others. The easiest way to get a cool alien gadget is to loot psiclone from EXALT soldiers. There are also another CAG-items in the game, check tech tree (press Q on geoscape screen).

How do you not have psiclne before 1999?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: krautbernd on May 07, 2020, 03:04:56 pm
Yeah, unless something has changed recently there are other options than the reaper corpse (how is that even a gadget?) the unlock the chief engineer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Mathel on May 07, 2020, 05:19:52 pm
Reaper corpse is on the list, but the list is very long. Plasma weapons, Laser weapons, various tools, robots, weapon clips, acid weapons, UFO components, Psi weapons, Sonic weapons...
Strangely, Boomer organ and Reaper corpse are there too, even though they do not seem like gadgets.
The easiest to find are probably the Psiclones (already mentioned), Alien Communicators and Black Lotus Psi weapons
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 07, 2020, 08:22:26 pm
Reaper Corpse being a prerequisite to the Cool Alien Gadget is a bug. No idea how this has happened, probably some trivial copypaste issue.

And yeah, in 95% of cases the Psiclone is your gateway tech to CAG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: BlindWatcher on May 07, 2020, 10:30:15 pm
Reaper Corpse being a prerequisite to the Cool Alien Gadget is a bug. No idea how this has happened, probably some trivial copypaste issue.

And yeah, in 95% of cases the Psiclone is your gateway tech to CAG.
If it is a bug, then how do I fix it? Reinstall?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on May 07, 2020, 10:33:21 pm
If it is a bug, then how do I fix it? Reinstall?

It literally doesn't matter, you only need to get one, and, as you said, reaper corpse is very unlikely to be the first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: krautbernd on May 08, 2020, 03:06:52 pm
Solarius, are any of the "random events" mandatory to advance the storyline or research?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: TheCurse on May 08, 2020, 09:11:37 pm
pretty sure no.
they may help with some things though...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thunderwing280 on May 10, 2020, 12:46:56 am
Most of the random events are pretty minor it seems, maybe -50 or so points which by lategame mean nothing.

Also some should be phased out the further you get into the game getting 'old crop circles' when you've done dozens of them and are at promo 3 makes little sense when you are a massive international organisation fighting bigger threats.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 10, 2020, 03:17:24 pm
Solarius, are any of the "random events" mandatory to advance the storyline or research?

No, or at least nothing meaningful.

Also some should be phased out the further you get into the game getting 'old crop circles' when you've done dozens of them and are at promo 3 makes little sense when you are a massive international organisation fighting bigger threats.

Yeah, but as it is, you get crop circles indefinitely. When I decide to remove this mission after a certain months has passed, I'll do the same with this event.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: HT on May 12, 2020, 03:51:17 pm
Soo, how long until the next release? From what I gathered at  github, it should be mostly ready by now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: xcomfan on May 12, 2020, 09:46:44 pm
Soo, how long until the next release? From what I gathered at  github, it should be mostly ready by now.

Well, gonna try at least a bit when it comes out....as for the 40k mod there 8s Red Dawn commissar? Maybe that faction has a paramilitary/ political rank structure? Might be interesting
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on May 12, 2020, 10:35:03 pm
What does the 40k mod have to do with this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on May 12, 2020, 11:51:39 pm
Yeah, but as it is, you get crop circles indefinitely. When I decide to remove this mission after a certain months has passed, I'll do the same with this event.

I mean, at a certain scale, not finding out a crop circles happened, doesn't make sense, since we are a gigantic organization at that point. Maybe add a bigger penalty for each promotion or disable "old crop circles" entirely after promotion 3 and make crop circles missions more prevalent?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: sardokar on May 13, 2020, 05:42:15 pm
Hey everyone, I had a problem where when I lauched the mod, the game said that it wasn't hable to find something about the sonic shotgun. Does anyone know how to fix that?

(I've download both openxcom and oxce tho I don't have tftd so maybe it's that)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Meridian on May 13, 2020, 07:24:36 pm
Hey everyone, I had a problem where when I lauched the mod, the game said that it wasn't hable to find something about the sonic shotgun. Does anyone know how to fix that?

(I've download both openxcom and oxce tho I don't have tftd so maybe it's that)

You don't need OpenXcom.

You only need OXCE.

Problem is that you are running OpenXcom, instead of OXCE.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: sardokar on May 14, 2020, 11:48:41 am
Thanks
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: null_subject on May 15, 2020, 09:38:47 am
I mean, at a certain scale, not finding out a crop circles happened, doesn't make sense, since we are a gigantic organization at that point. Maybe add a bigger penalty for each promotion or disable "old crop circles" entirely after promotion 3 and make crop circles missions more prevalent?

Hmmm, I think the idea is that at some point, you don't care about crop circles, not that you have no idea they are still happening. There could be a monthly expenditure for sending out low level investigators to do this kind of stuff automatically. It could require a base facility. In any case, the simplest method (and the one solarius has mentioned) which is to just stop those missions after a certain time sounds totally acceptable from a narrative point of view. There could be flavor text to accompany this change, like the random events. What are "old crop circles"? Is there another type of crop circle mission I haven't seen yet?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: justaround on May 15, 2020, 07:19:40 pm
There could be flavor text to accompany this change, like the random events.
I really like this idea. In fact, I wouldn't mind some sort of one-time guaranteed random events for various bigger changes in the world in general. Stuff like foreshadowing of certain events informing one that council/player received intel about this or that (rare creature, some sightings, special mission or new type of it being unlocked/disappearing).

Examples such as:
"An important antarctic research station stopped responding to any attempts of communication. While currently there's no reports of any discernible threats approaching its area, rumors claim that the Council is conerned. You will be provided with actionable information once it will be deemed necessary" a few days before The Thing event, or
"A vast cave system reaching deep into Earth's crust was discovered in [area]. Jumbled rumors of dangerous creatures are currently investigated by the Council's intelligence networks." some time after researching the whole underground shebang
could add quite much to the narrative and a bit more of insight into X-Com - Council relations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: BlindWatcher on May 16, 2020, 06:12:17 am
more of insight into X-Com - Council relations.

I'll admit I'm not very far at all, but I thought up something this morning exactly along these lines:
The mod's all about red tape, but who is causing all that red tape? Why do you HAVE to eliminate at least one cult before you can research promotion III? Well what I figured is that the UN bureaucrats are effectively deadlocked due to cult interference prior to the elimination of at least one. With evidence to back up the corruption of a handful of certain UN officials, their non-cult allies distance themselves quickly and throw their support behind XCOM. So even if the other cults are around, the deadlock is ended and enough of a majority now exists for all restrictions to be jettisoned. Pretty simple explanation.

Would be nice if something along those lines unlocked along with Promotion I, II, and III. Partial text from a meeting or recorded phone call about why XCOM is being so heavily stonewalled, even if you drag  a sectoid corpse right in front of them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Bobit on May 16, 2020, 07:03:04 pm
I don't think it's about red tape and traitorous council so much as it is about funding and trust by the time you reach Promo II->III. The council has evidence there are cults and a small number of aliens, not that the cults are working with aliens. They're not ready to allow you alien military technology.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on May 18, 2020, 03:52:06 am
What are "old crop circles"? Is there another type of crop circle mission I haven't seen yet?

It is a random event where XCom misses a crop circle and receives a point penalty because of it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: xcomfan on May 19, 2020, 02:37:21 pm
I'll admit I'm not very far at all, but I thought up something this morning exactly along these lines:
The mod's all about red tape, but who is causing all that red tape? Why do you HAVE to eliminate at least one cult before you can research promotion III? Well what I figured is that the UN bureaucrats are effectively deadlocked due to cult interference prior to the elimination of at least one. With evidence to back up the corruption of a handful of certain UN officials, their non-cult allies distance themselves quickly and throw their support behind XCOM. So even if the other cults are around, the deadlock is ended and enough of a majority now exists for all restrictions to be jettisoned. Pretty simple explanation.

Would be nice if something along those lines unlocked along with Promotion I, II, and III. Partial text from a meeting or recorded phone call about why XCOM is being so heavily stonewalled, even if you drag  a sectoid corpse right in front of them.

A more masochistic approach may be to eliminate all cults to get a promotion III, or make ir a prequisite for an eventual pronotion IV that lead to super-techno equipment to get to cydonia...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on May 19, 2020, 02:57:38 pm
A more masochistic approach may be to eliminate all cults to get a promotion III, or make ir a prequisite for an eventual pronotion IV that lead to super-techno equipment to get to cydonia...


The promotions are bureaucratic...

After promo III you have been given full rights by the council to do whatever you need to, so how does a promo IV make any sense?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: xcomfan on May 19, 2020, 09:12:41 pm

The promotions are bureaucratic...

After promo III you have been given full rights by the council to do whatever you need to, so how does a promo IV make any sense?

Just for more frustration fun!! Seriously, don't know, i though to expand the mod a little more, bringin some things to unlock :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: vadracas on May 19, 2020, 09:16:51 pm
Xcomfan, There are several(8 or so) arcs in this mod with a full vanilla campaign's length and much more flavor. Plus, there are multiple others currently in development. Plus, the alien invasion is like 4 vanilla campaigns on it's own.


There is plenty to unlock, more sensible content is always amazing, but there is literally no point in locking things arbitrarily instead of doing so in a way that makes sense, like this mod does.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: xcomfan on May 19, 2020, 10:08:03 pm
Ok, just my 2 cents ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 20, 2020, 05:04:06 pm
I really like this idea. In fact, I wouldn't mind some sort of one-time guaranteed random events for various bigger changes in the world in general. Stuff like foreshadowing of certain events informing one that council/player received intel about this or that (rare creature, some sightings, special mission or new type of it being unlocked/disappearing).

Examples such as:
"An important antarctic research station stopped responding to any attempts of communication. While currently there's no reports of any discernible threats approaching its area, rumors claim that the Council is conerned. You will be provided with actionable information once it will be deemed necessary" a few days before The Thing event, or
"A vast cave system reaching deep into Earth's crust was discovered in [area]. Jumbled rumors of dangerous creatures are currently investigated by the Council's intelligence networks." some time after researching the whole underground shebang
could add quite much to the narrative and a bit more of insight into X-Com - Council relations.


It's a neat idea, I'll note it down.

I'll admit I'm not very far at all, but I thought up something this morning exactly along these lines:
The mod's all about red tape, but who is causing all that red tape? Why do you HAVE to eliminate at least one cult before you can research promotion III? Well what I figured is that the UN bureaucrats are effectively deadlocked due to cult interference prior to the elimination of at least one. With evidence to back up the corruption of a handful of certain UN officials, their non-cult allies distance themselves quickly and throw their support behind XCOM. So even if the other cults are around, the deadlock is ended and enough of a majority now exists for all restrictions to be jettisoned. Pretty simple explanation.

Would be nice if something along those lines unlocked along with Promotion I, II, and III. Partial text from a meeting or recorded phone call about why XCOM is being so heavily stonewalled, even if you drag  a sectoid corpse right in front of them.

This is already rather covered, and will be expanded upon.

I don't think it's about red tape and traitorous council so much as it is about funding and trust by the time you reach Promo II->III.

You could say it's both :)
(It's complicated.)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Slaughter on May 21, 2020, 12:16:09 am
X-COM facing so much red tape makes sense if you think about it from a juridical-intelligence perspective.

X-COM is something never seen in world history : A beyond top-secret worldwide intelligence agency slash investigation bureau slash black ops special forces military outfit.

Jurisprudence: Every single inch of Earth's surface.

Its FBI + CIA + NKVD + Interpol + Special Forces. Also, the capability of research in every area of science and manufacturing equipment.

Imagine, if you will, in a normal context, the FBI caught five guys armed to the teeth in New York, shooting a bunch of "perfectly innocent civilians." With assault rifles and military explosives. One guy is from Iran, the other is from Russia, forth is from China, fifth is from Venezuela. All your data says those guys served the police/military/intelligence agencies of those countries.

Something like X-COM would be a legal and international law nightmare.



Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: Thermite on May 21, 2020, 11:16:31 pm
X-COM facing so much red tape makes sense if you think about it from a juridical-intelligence perspective.

X-COM is something never seen in world history : A beyond top-secret worldwide intelligence agency slash investigation bureau slash black ops special forces military outfit.

Jurisprudence: Every single inch of Earth's surface.

Its FBI + CIA + NKVD + Interpol + Special Forces. Also, the capability of research in every area of science and manufacturing equipment.

Imagine, if you will, in a normal context, the FBI caught five guys armed to the teeth in New York, shooting a bunch of "perfectly innocent civilians." With assault rifles and military explosives. One guy is from Iran, the other is from Russia, forth is from China, fifth is from Venezuela. All your data says those guys served the police/military/intelligence agencies of those countries.

Something like X-COM would be a legal and international law nightmare.



Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Without considering all the politics behind that chaos. Imagine the fighting and finger pointing that would happen in the global political stage, I bet wars would be fought over because of the incident.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: LuigiWhatif on May 23, 2020, 07:23:41 am
Are the Gertrude Ellison and Dr Hadriex missions one-chance-only?  The text didn't seem to say they were but the after I didn't complete the Ellison mission it hasn't shown up again and now I'm a little worried.  The Hadriex mission just spawned outside my dragonfly's range and I want to know if I can wait for it to spawn in a better place.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2020, 02:29:11 pm
Are the Gertrude Ellison and Dr Hadriex missions one-chance-only?  The text didn't seem to say they were but the after I didn't complete the Ellison mission it hasn't shown up again and now I'm a little worried.  The Hadriex mission just spawned outside my dragonfly's range and I want to know if I can wait for it to spawn in a better place.

Yes, both are one-time only.

Don't worry though, they are not essential for game completion.

EDIT:

Version 1.4 has been released.

- New units: Gillman Hero, Skeleton, Lich, Wizkid Rocket Drone.
- New weapons: X-Com Assault Plasma, USP Match (both graphics by Brain_322), Throwing Axes, Spear, Thunder Arcer.
- New items: Handcuffs (by Kozinsky, including handcuffing mechanics), Criminal Records, Dino Egg, Dino Egg Shell.
- New AI chassis: Rocket Drone.
- New terrains: Winter Forest and Winter Marsh (based on tilesets from Bullet Designer and Efrenespartano).
- New missions: Shady Tavern (in 5 variants), Trading with The Wizkids, Cavemen Camping, Dreamscape Necromancer's Dungeon.
- New Ufopedia articles related to the Cult of Apocalypse.
- Black Lotus rationale (by Dragor).
- New facilities: Rat Farm, Sensorium.
- New concept: Strange Creature Breeding (based on concept and sub-mod by Thermite).
- New road maps for Urban Low (by Finnik).
- 2 new Dimension X Base buildings (by Wolverin).
- 7 new events (5 by Sherris, 2 by SparroHawc; all with minor adjustments).
- New Staff Input. New Geoscape theme (from the Amiga AGA version of the original game).
- Monster Terrors will no longer happen after researching Monsters: Final Solution.
- Large Alien Drone can now be disassemblied.
- Improved SCANGs (by Dioxine).
- Psi Defense now depends on Bravery and morale (for good or bad).
- More Swarmids on their paperdoll.
- Enhanced Power Armor and Enforcer graphics (by Wolverin).
- Juggernaut is a bit more resistant to melee attacks.
- New HWP Fusion Bomb sprite (by Brain_322).
- Improved EXALT Master an Bullfrog graphics (by Kato).
- Improved Large Workshop sprite (by Kato).
- Changed Dr. Hadriex' dossier picture, as it was too recognizable.
- Halved Sanity recovery.
- Tritanium is more expensive to produce.
- Electric attacks will no longer provoke self-destruction.
- Ski Resort will not happen after all 4 beginning cults have been resolved.
- Less enemies on the Moon for lower difficulties.
- Added Armored Cars to the Red Dawn HQ.
- Fiddled with Cult of Apocalypse gangs equipment on some missions.
- Sniper rifles never roll low for damage.
- Buffed Sectopod weapon.
- UAC Pistol rebalanced, now works like the UAC Rifle.
- Knockout Grenade is buffed and available earlier.
- Cell Phone can now be used to beat up people.
- Psi-Amp costs slightly tweaked.
- Moved Gillman's electric attack to a special weapon.
- Shotgun batons are no longer AoE.
- Fixed Psiclone damage type.
- Fixed Taser Cannon showing in the Pedia before it's researched.
- Fixed Alien Embassy map generation.
- Flipped vanilla pistol sprite to match other pistols.
- Fixed Scorpoid death animation.
- Various fixes (many thanks to Emil J. Schroeder for help).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 23, 2020, 03:13:22 pm
A new version! I was just to post, how about a random event about corrupted xcom agents? Might be similar to xpiratez "fungus outbreak" that implies some ation from the player; for eg "selling" the officer causes -100.000$ per each of them, researching might also be involved, for exaple researching an "internal anti corruprion commission"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on May 23, 2020, 03:43:15 pm
- Added Armored Cars to the Red Dawn HQ.

 :'(

(Good idea! It was a little too easy to rush the entrance and just drop explosives)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2020, 04:56:51 pm
A new version! I was just to post, how about a random event about corrupted xcom agents?

What's wrong with The Turncoat? Do you mean something else?

(Good idea! It was a little too easy to rush the entrance and just drop explosives)

Yeah, a lot of people said it was too easy now. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 23, 2020, 05:38:09 pm
What's wrong with The Turncoat? Do you mean something else?

Oh i did not know about that...it'a new feature?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on May 23, 2020, 05:58:18 pm
Yay, new version!

Feels good to see my little input there.

Hah, I always knew you could beat someone up with one of those ancient brickphones of the 90s! Mother owned one of those in... 1998 I think? Geez those things were heavy and enormous. Made those early 2000s phones look sleek and light.

Signs of the Apocalypse! Sounds omnious! But hey, what about the arc tracker at the OP? Update?

So... How I update my current running game?

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on May 24, 2020, 09:27:38 am
As a firearm autism moment, the pedia entry for the AKM is incorrect about the calibre. The AKM still uses 7.62x39 rather than 5.45x39 as noted.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bonakva on May 24, 2020, 10:07:02 am
Hmm, I'm playing version 1.4. I investigated the purchase of Grenade Launcher. Grenades have appeared,
but there is no Grenade Launcher.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on May 24, 2020, 10:51:52 am
Hmm, I'm playing version 1.4. I investigated the purchase of Grenade Launcher. Grenades have appeared,
but there is no Grenade Launcher.

Make sure you have Promotion II and explosives license. For anything confusing, try hitting Q on the geoscape and searching the tech tree, which shows prerequisites. Some people consider that cheating, but I'm honestly not sure how I'd live without it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bonakva on May 24, 2020, 01:23:14 pm
I immediately climbed into a tree to understand what was wrong ... but the fact, the technology has been studied, but there are no things
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 24, 2020, 01:28:23 pm
Upload savegame please.

Have you actually researched Grenade Launcher Acquisition?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bonakva on May 24, 2020, 01:30:19 pm
SAVE
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 24, 2020, 01:35:06 pm
Solarius, why is this here:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER
    categories: [STR_HUMAN_TECH, STR_EXPLOSIVES, STR_INCENDIARIES, STR_SMOKE, STR_LAUNCHERS, STR_HEAVY_WEAPONS, STR_LAND]
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY
      - STR_NAPALM_GRENADE

Is this intended? Why do we need to research the napalm grenade to buy the grenade launcher?

@Bonkova
Go into your items_XCOMFILES.rul and delete the STR_NAPALM_GRENADE entry in the above STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER definiton (and only there, not any other instances of it). That should solve the problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2020, 03:26:19 pm
Oh i did not know about that...it'a new feature?

No.

Yay, new version!

Feels good to see my little input there.

:)


Signs of the Apocalypse! Sounds omnious! But hey, what about the arc tracker at the OP? Update?

I can't remember what half of these censored entries are, but okay, I'll try to manage :)

So... How I update my current running game?

Just replace the mod folder and update OXCE. You don't need to do anything with the save itself, just don't update in battlescape.

As a firearm autism moment, the pedia entry for the AKM is incorrect about the calibre. The AKM still uses 7.62x39 rather than 5.45x39 as noted.

Ah, that. I forgot to change it, and the tree is complicated.

Honestly, why does everyone know this tidbit? I don't think I know anyone IRL who would... -_-

Solarius, why is this here:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY
      - STR_NAPALM_GRENADE

Is this intended? Why do we need to research the napalm grenade to buy the grenade launcher?

OK, it's a bit awkward. I'll redo it to:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY

but also

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_LAUNCHER_INC
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY
      - STR_NAPALM_GRENADE

@Bonkova
Go into your items_XCOMFILES.rul and delete the STR_NAPALM_GRENADE entry in the above STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER definiton (and only there, not any other instances of it). That should solve the problem.

It's still not exactly as intended, but good enough for a quick fix.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 24, 2020, 03:38:02 pm

Honestly, why does everyone know this tidbit? I don't think I know anyone IRL who would... -_-

I do! Gotta try soon this relase... ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 24, 2020, 04:13:39 pm
BTW Solarius, how exactely do the handcuffs work in-game in regards to handcuff-strength and protection levels? How high is the chance that enemies can free themselves when the handcuff strength > handcuff resist? Is there a way to view enemy handcuff protection levels in the battlescape?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2020, 04:21:20 pm
BTW Solarius, how exactely do the handcuffs work in-game in regards to handcuff-strength and protection levels? How high is the chance that enemies can free themselves when the handcuff strength > handcuff resist? Is there a way to view enemy handcuff protection levels in the battlescape?

Sorry, this is cannot be checked, as it's all funky scripting. All I know has been explianed by Kozinsky in his thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8152.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 24, 2020, 04:34:21 pm
Sorry, this is cannot be checked, as it's all funky scripting. All I know has been explianed by Kozinsky in his thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8152.0.html).
Sorry, I might have been a bit vague - my question was whether you'd changed anything in regards to the strength levels and the chance to break from the cuffs. In the original script units with a strength of up to 39 had a 1% chance of breaking free and so on. Is that the case in XCF as well?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check
Post by: RolandVasko on May 24, 2020, 04:45:48 pm
Are the Gertrude Ellison and Dr Hadriex missions one-chance-only?  The text didn't seem to say they were but the after I didn't complete the Ellison mission it hasn't shown up again and now I'm a little worried.  The Hadriex mission just spawned outside my dragonfly's range and I want to know if I can wait for it to spawn in a better place.

do you still have any saves just abit BEFORE these missions ?

(overally advice, rather usually saves, always before such any important events, /  "milestones" )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2020, 05:06:05 pm
Sorry, I might have been a bit vague - my question was whether you'd changed anything in regards to the strength levels and the chance to break from the cuffs. In the original script units with a strength of up to 39 had a 1% chance of breaking free and so on. Is that the case in XCF as well?

No, I haven't modified these values.

Also:
Version 1.4a has been released.
- Reorganized 46mm Grenade (INC) buying.
- Swapped AKM and AK-47 graphics.
- Fixed Heavy Crossbow Tritanium Bolts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Kozinsky on May 24, 2020, 06:29:25 pm
Sorry, I might have been a bit vague - my question was whether you'd changed anything in regards to the strength levels and the chance to break from the cuffs. In the original script units with a strength of up to 39 had a 1% chance of breaking free and so on. Is that the case in XCF as well?
The algorithm has been changed to: for normal handcuffs (with handcuff strength 40), all units with strength less or equal to 40, have 0% chance of getting free;
with strength 41 - 1% chance;
with strength 42 - 2% chance;
...;
with strength 128 - 88% chance;
with strength 129 - 89% chance;
with strength more or equal to 130 - 90% chance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Thermite on May 24, 2020, 08:12:58 pm
No, I haven't modified these values.

Also:
Version 1.4a has been released.
- Reorganized 46mm Grenade (INC) buying.
- Swapped AKM and AK-47 graphics.
- Fixed Heavy Crossbow Tritanium Bolts.

I did the pull request!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on May 24, 2020, 08:21:27 pm
No.

:)


I can't remember what half of these censored entries are, but okay, I'll try to manage :)

Just replace the mod folder and update OXCE. You don't need to do anything with the save itself, just don't update in battlescape.

Ah, that. I forgot to change it, and the tree is complicated.

Honestly, why does everyone know this tidbit? I don't think I know anyone IRL who would... -_-

OK, it's a bit awkward. I'll redo it to:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY

but also

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_LAUNCHER_INC
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_BUY
      - STR_NAPALM_GRENADE

It's still not exactly as intended, but good enough for a quick fix.

Might wanna include that part about updating somewhere? Because yesterday I did it and not only I didn't update OXCE, but I started off a battlescape save in a EXALT outpost.

But there's only one censored entry.

Ah shit, there goes ten days of progress and one 100% successful Red Dawn safehouse raid. All gone, like tears in the rain.

*Sound of tape being rewinded*

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 24, 2020, 08:29:40 pm
I did the pull request!

Awesome, thanks. Merged.

How did you capture all these spaces at the end of lines? Most of these came from other people's contributions, so I couldn't even see them. They don't show up as errors in the validator or anything.

Might wanna include that part about updating somewhere? Because yesterday I did it and not only I didn't update OXCE, but I started off a battlescape save in a EXALT outpost.

Required OXCE version is specified in the metadata, the game shouldn't let you run the mod if your OXCE version is incorrect. The problem is that it only checks on mod enabling, so if it's already enabled, you don't get anything.

And why are you blaming me, like it was some mod issue? That's the iron rule for every OXC mod, for reasons you should well understand yourself (issues with weapons changing properties in the middle of a battle and such).

But there's only one censored entry.

...what?

Ah shit, there goes ten days of progress and one 100% successful Red Dawn safehouse raid. All gone, like tears in the rain.

*Sound of tape being rewinded*

I don't get it. What did you lose?

Updating in the battlescape can led to problems, but doesn't have to.

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Why is this shit in your every post?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Thermite on May 24, 2020, 08:31:12 pm
Awesome, thanks. Merged.

How did you capture all these spaces at the end of lines? Most of these came from other people's contributions, so I couldn't even see them. They don't show up as errors in the validator or anything.

It probably was the IDE, it automatically searches for blank white space characters between the last non white space character and the line break sequence up to the next non white space character.

The validator just ignores those too...
I think you have to toggle that setting, though...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Thermite on May 24, 2020, 08:34:48 pm

Why is this shit in your every post?

It basically says "Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk", it is basically an automated signature.

I think you should look into disabling that, Slaughter. Or at least changing the message.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on May 24, 2020, 09:10:47 pm
Awesome, thanks. Merged.

Required OXCE version is specified in the metadata, the game shouldn't let you run the mod if your OXCE version is incorrect. The problem is that it only checks on mod enabling, so if it's already enabled, you don't get anything.

And why are you blaming me, like it was some mod issue? That's the iron rule for every OXC mod, for reasons you should well understand yourself (issues with weapons changing properties in the middle of a battle and such).

...what?

I don't get it. What did you lose?

Updating in the battlescape can led to problems, but doesn't have to.

Why is this shit in your every post?

Well, I didn't know that. Game did throw up a warning when I tried to load the save, but I did anyway.

Not blaming you, bro. Just saying info like "How to upgrade to newer version" might be nice to place in one of the fixed threads. I remember actually having to edit saves in the older versions, so I was kinda confused about the how-tos.

Actually, just a few days of progress from playing yesterday. Loot and stuff, one or two researched topics. Ain't a big deal actually.

I'm gonna backtrack anyway, just to be on the safe side.

Why is that in every post? I would tell you, but then I would have to kill you...







Actually its a message tapatalk leaves on if you post with it using your phone. I could deactivate, but it kind of became a minor meme on RPGcodex a few years ago because it irked some people when it was there. Like, irked them a lot lol.

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk
I'm
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on May 25, 2020, 05:42:58 am

Honestly, why does everyone know this tidbit? I don't think I know anyone IRL who would... -_-



I'm an American, man. Being worringly enthusiastic about firearms is a national pastime.

Also, uh... I play a lot of Tarkov.


In other news. I love the Clear Foliage function on the Kukri so much. A soft breaching tool that can fit on your belt, and provide almost guaranteed hits on low-evasion enemies like zombies? Sign me right the fuck up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: HT on May 25, 2020, 10:34:52 am
Not blaming you, bro. Just saying info like "How to upgrade to newer version" might be nice to place in one of the fixed threads. I remember actually having to edit saves in the older versions, so I was kinda confused about the how-tos.

Actually its a message tapatalk leaves on if you post with it using your phone. I could deactivate, but it kind of became a minor meme on RPGcodex a few years ago because it irked some people when it was there. Like, irked them a lot lol.

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk
I'm

I believe Scorch doesn't like it and founds that auto-sig annoying, and hence why he asks why you don't remove it. Besides, there's an "I'm" here below that which you probably fucked up writing.

Also, there's a quick and dirty way to update OXCE before playing XFiles, if you're worried: Download Piratez! That mod usually includes the latest version of OXCE, which means you already have everything packed together. I do not recommend having Xcom Files and Piratez together though, IMO it can lead up to odd bugs sometimes, such as hearing Piratez' music in XCF.  :)

Nevertheless, it should be safe to have both.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Meridian on May 25, 2020, 10:42:19 am
Also, there's a quick and dirty way to update OXCE before playing XFiles, if you're worried: Download Piratez! That mod usually includes the latest version of OXCE, which means you already have everything packed together.

Or you can just download the latest OXCE?!
Why the heck would you need to download a completely unrelated thing like PirateZ?
It's like buying a whole new car with a new GPS, ripping off the new GPS and installing it in your old car... and then throw the rest of the new car away. Makes no sense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Meridian on May 25, 2020, 10:45:28 am
Actually its a message tapatalk leaves on if you post with it using your phone. I could deactivate, but it kind of became a minor meme on RPGcodex a few years ago because it irked some people when it was there. Like, irked them a lot lol.

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk
I'm

And it irks us too. A LOT.
It irks me even more that you KNOW it irks people, you KNOW how to turn it off, and you don't do it. That's just being a complete asshole!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 25, 2020, 11:15:29 am
It's also a "nice" way for companies to advertise in places that don't natively use ads and to circumvent ad-blockers. You're essentailly ending your messages with "McDonalds - I'm lovin' it!". Please disable that crap.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 25, 2020, 01:21:39 pm
Not blaming you, bro. Just saying info like "How to upgrade to newer version" might be nice to place in one of the fixed threads. I remember actually having to edit saves in the older versions, so I was kinda confused about the how-tos.

Hmm, where would I put it though? I don't have a "how to upgrade" section... Should I make one? A genuine question.

Actually, just a few days of progress from playing yesterday. Loot and stuff, one or two researched topics. Ain't a big deal actually.

I'm gonna backtrack anyway, just to be on the safe side.

I honestly don't think you have to, but sure, always better to be on the safe side.


I'm an American, man. Being worringly enthusiastic about firearms is a national pastime.

Also, uh... I play a lot of Tarkov.

I will fix this soon, but couldn't do it before 1.4, as it would entail more trnaslations and the files were ready.

In other news. I love the Clear Foliage function on the Kukri so much. A soft breaching tool that can fit on your belt, and provide almost guaranteed hits on low-evasion enemies like zombies? Sign me right the fuck up.

I like it too; the problem is that it's technically a shooting weapon, and I can't give enemies two shooting weapons (like a kukri and a pistol), so its use (and similar weapons) is limited.

I can however give the AI a kukri and a dagger, if I wanted to. :P

Or you can just download the latest OXCE?!
Why the heck would you need to download a completely unrelated thing like PirateZ?
It's like buying a whole new car with a new GPS, ripping off the new GPS and installing it in your old car... and then throw the rest of the new car away. Makes no sense.

(https://i.redd.it/zy7kifdj2ts21.jpg)

:D

And it irks us too. A LOT.
It irks me even more that you KNOW it irks people, you KNOW how to turn it off, and you don't do it. That's just being a complete asshole!

I believe the precise terminology is "trolling faggots on openxcom.org". :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 25, 2020, 03:22:53 pm
Still in 1.4a the small shotgun usess the handob of the police shotgun in xpiratez, i know thi is not a bug but why this mod it's like a gem has to have thase "spots" on it? Hope someday aproper handob would be implemented..

Edit: not really a bug, but when pre activating any item in the inventory before the mission game refers it as a "grenade", but i suppose it's kinda hardcoded thing.

Edit 2: he uzi is somewhat bigger, anyone might make a sprite or has a spare one, if it gonna be replaced/resized?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Thermite on May 25, 2020, 07:16:34 pm

I like it too; the problem is that it's technically a shooting weapon, and I can't give enemies two shooting weapons (like a kukri and a pistol), so its use (and similar weapons) is limited.

I can however give the AI a kukri and a dagger, if I wanted to. :P

Can we have a tritanium kukri?

Just a teal hue version of the original kukri that has a stronger cutting damage level.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on May 25, 2020, 09:09:30 pm


And it irks us too. A LOT.
It irks me even more that you KNOW it irks people, you KNOW how to turn it off, and you don't do it. That's just being a complete asshole!

Actually I'm not trying to irk you guys, but some other guys. Love ya guys, no homo.


Hmm, where would I put it though? I don't have a "how to upgrade" section... Should I make one? A genuine question.

I honestly don't think you have to, but sure, always better to be on the safe side.


I will fix this soon, but couldn't do it before 1.4, as it would entail more trnaslations and the files were ready.

I like it too; the problem is that it's technically a shooting weapon, and I can't give enemies two shooting weapons (like a kukri and a pistol), so its use (and similar weapons) is limited.

I can however give the AI a kukri and a dagger, if I wanted to.

(https://i.redd.it/zy7kifdj2ts21.jpg)

:D

I believe the precise terminology is "trolling faggots on openxcom.org".

Perhaps somewhere involving installing, or just in the download link thread?

Safe side is best side. Pretty sure I am not supposed to see Tritanium handcuffs this early.

Technically I'm trolling faggots somewhere else, shhhhhh.

Enviado de meu moto e5 play usando o Tapatalk

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 26, 2020, 02:25:42 pm
Still in 1.4a the small shotgun usess the handob of the police shotgun in xpiratez, i know thi is not a bug but why this mod it's like a gem has to have thase "spots" on it? Hope someday aproper handob would be implemented..

Thanks. And I'll see what I can do about this.

Edit 2: he uzi is somewhat bigger, anyone might make a sprite or has a spare one, if it gonna be replaced/resized?

Maybe?

Can we have a tritanium kukri?

Just a teal hue version of the original kukri that has a stronger cutting damage level.

Yeah, we can. Added to the to-do list.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 26, 2020, 04:31:56 pm
Maybe?

navigatin' the forum, maybe there is already one here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7693.msg123023.html#msg123023)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on May 27, 2020, 05:20:24 am
One of my terror mission civs just picked up an LMG. I didn't know they could do that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: vadracas on May 27, 2020, 05:32:52 am
One of my terror mission civs just picked up an LMG. I didn't know they could do that.



As of 6.5 they can, as of 6.5.1 it's configurable
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Meridian on May 27, 2020, 10:26:44 am

As of 6.5 they can, as of 6.5.1 it's configurable

In 6.5 it is also configurable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: vadracas on May 27, 2020, 12:18:46 pm
Right,
In 6.5 it is also configurable.

In my head pick up weapons more actively is always on so I forgot  lol ???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mathel on May 27, 2020, 06:55:10 pm
I just did the Gertrude Ellison mission.
I guess it is expected to appear before the player has acces to Power Suits. They are impervious to her unarmed hits. (She did picked up a handgun from a bodyguard she put to sleep. Not that it was any help to her.)
The only difficulty was with the combination of wanting her alive and being stingy on stun bombs. Luckily, I had one agent trained enough in melee to hit her with a Stun Rod. Otherwise, I would have had to use the Small Launchers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 28, 2020, 04:35:09 pm
Solarius, could you please clarify as to how handcuffs are implemented? I'd had a look at both the original script (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8152.0.html?PHPSESSID=o0r0o7d0k8slvtdrc9mo4srek8) and the scripts_XCOMFILES.rul, and as far as I can tell they are at least somewhat diffrent, for example the chance for handcuffed units to break is not identical (despite you stating otherwise).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Kozinsky on May 28, 2020, 05:04:43 pm
Solarius, could you please clarify as to how handcuffs are implemented? I'd had a look at both the original script (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8152.0.html?PHPSESSID=o0r0o7d0k8slvtdrc9mo4srek8) and the scripts_XCOMFILES.rul, and as far as I can tell they are at least somewhat diffrent, for example the chance for handcuffed units to break is not identical (despite you stating otherwise).

Everything is under my control))
The XCF uses the latestest version of the script. When I complete all tests, I'll update this topic on forum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 28, 2020, 05:40:28 pm
That still doesn't answer my question. How is the chance of a unit breaking free calculated? As far as I can tell the script now substracts the handcuff level (which is the sum of the applied handcuff strength) from the unit strength. If that value is greater than rand(100) the unit breaks free. Is that about correct?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Kozinsky on May 28, 2020, 05:56:22 pm
That still doesn't answer my question. How is the chance of a unit breaking free calculated? As far as I can tell the script now substracts the handcuff level (which is the sum of the applied handcuff strength) from the unit strength. If that value is greater than rand(100) the unit breaks free. Is that about correct?

Yes, this is correct.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 28, 2020, 06:53:59 pm
I just did the Gertrude Ellison mission.
I guess it is expected to appear before the player has acces to Power Suits. They are impervious to her unarmed hits. (She did picked up a handgun from a bodyguard she put to sleep. Not that it was any help to her.)
The only difficulty was with the combination of wanting her alive and being stingy on stun bombs. Luckily, I had one agent trained enough in melee to hit her with a Stun Rod. Otherwise, I would have had to use the Small Launchers.

I think yes, you got it unusually late. But still, it's not her fists which are supposed to be a problem on this mission. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on May 28, 2020, 10:13:45 pm
I just did the Lo Wei mission.

And by "did", I mean "I set everything on fire after being ambushed by invisible ninjas from all sides, shot the ninjas on fire, exploded one with a mine, set Lo Wei on fire, shot him to death and then retreated with his scroll because my two remaining agents had 1 hp and were also on fire."

This mod, man.

Ninjas can't catch you if THEY are on fire. Being on fire can't protect from ninjas, that's fake Ninja propaganda from Dr. McNinja.

So, uh... What I do with Lo Wei' Scroll of secrets? I can't research it. Need more research before I can?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 28, 2020, 10:33:20 pm
I just did the Lo Wei mission.
@Solarius Scorch: why not Lo wang (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVDxAJFiY8) instead? Sny chance to rename?  :P Jokes asedi, whatever!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 29, 2020, 11:42:04 am
I just did the Lo Wei mission.

And by "did", I mean "I set everything on fire after being ambushed by invisible ninjas from all sides, shot the ninjas on fire, exploded one with a mine, set Lo Wei on fire, shot him to death and then retreated with his scroll because my two remaining agents had 1 hp and were also on fire."

This mod, man.

Ninjas can't catch you if THEY are on fire. Being on fire can't protect from ninjas, that's fake Ninja propaganda from Dr. McNinja.

 ;D

So, uh... What I do with Lo Wei' Scroll of secrets? I can't research it. Need more research before I can?

It leads to secret stuff!

@Solarius Scorch: why not Lo wang (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVDxAJFiY8) instead? Sny chance to rename?  :P Jokes asedi, whatever!

These jokes stopped being funny around 1997.

Not to mention these two characters have zero in common, except they are both Chinese.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 29, 2020, 02:53:07 pm
Not to mention these two characters have zero in common, except they are both Chinese.

I thought havin some reference to 90' games would have benn fun, for instance a dossier about Lo Wang would have been fun. Ir also to "Rise of the triad" see here:

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 29, 2020, 02:59:24 pm
I thought havin some reference to 90' games would have benn fun

No. Only funny references are fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: justaround on May 29, 2020, 03:23:14 pm
No. Only funny references are fun.
Hey, some subtle old game references can be fun and I am pretty sure we have such already in the dossiers.

Anyway, I had some folks I recommended mod to ask me about things since they had issues with installation and the video linked is quite long, a bit outdated and doesn't explain certain basic issues they had, so I've made slightly more idiocy-proof version I offer for inclusion in the readme:

Code: [Select]
HOW DO I INSTALL THIS MOD?
- Get and unpack the latest OpenXCom Extended. You can download it from here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html
- From the original, latest/patched version of the "UFO - Enemy Unknown"/"X-COM: UFO Defense" game copy relevant data listed in the readme file in the UFO folder of installed OpenXCom Extended.
- Unpack the mod archive into "[main OpenXCom folder]\user\mods" - you may need to create those folders first if you start fresh.
- Run the game and enable the mod from the dropdown bar in the mod selection menu.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 29, 2020, 05:18:46 pm
Just to chime in on this, please don't add straight-out over-the-head character references to other games and/or pop-culture. I'd hate to see Lo Wang in this. Or Duke Nukem for that matter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on May 29, 2020, 06:54:08 pm
Ok i got it ::)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Thermite on May 29, 2020, 07:55:43 pm
It leads to secret stuff!

That have yet to be implemented...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 30, 2020, 09:06:01 pm
Hey, some subtle old game references can be fun and I am pretty sure we have such already in the dossiers.

Of course! :)

Anyway, I had some folks I recommended mod to ask me about things since they had issues with installation and the video linked is quite long, a bit outdated and doesn't explain certain basic issues they had, so I've made slightly more idiocy-proof version I offer for inclusion in the readme:

Code: [Select]
HOW DO I INSTALL THIS MOD?
- Get and unpack the latest OpenXCom Extended. You can download it from here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html
- From the original, latest/patched version of the "UFO - Enemy Unknown"/"X-COM: UFO Defense" game copy relevant data listed in the readme file in the UFO folder of installed OpenXCom Extended.
- Unpack the mod archive into "[main OpenXCom folder]\user\mods" - you may need to create those folders first if you start fresh.
- Run the game and enable the mod from the dropdown bar in the mod selection menu.

Excellent, thanks! Added.

That have yet to be implemented...

No...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on May 31, 2020, 10:07:20 pm
Solarius, what was the reason for changing the Red Dawn HQ map? Not that I'm complaining, but it's extremely easy to cheez the assault now. You might want to redesign the entrance/exit a bit - right now it's a death trap for the enemy. Just station two soldiers atop/to the side and watch the bodies pile up. It's kind of entertaining tbh.

*Step* *Pop* *Pop* *Scream*
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: vadracas on June 01, 2020, 01:12:23 am
Solarius, what was the reason for changing the Red Dawn HQ map? Not that I'm complaining, but it's extremely easy to cheez the assault now. You might want to redesign the entrance/exit a bit - right now it's a death trap for the enemy. Just station two soldiers atop/to the side and watch the bodies pile up. It's kind of entertaining tbh.

*Step* *Pop* *Pop* *Scream*


This map change happened a long long while ago. The latest change was to add the cars.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bonakva on June 01, 2020, 06:20:26 am
Maybe you should convert Turbolaser Carbine to SMG?
To make a choice between a rifle and smg. In truth, the Turbolaser Carbine picture directly screams that it is a light weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on June 01, 2020, 06:34:46 am
Solarius, what was the reason for changing the Red Dawn HQ map? Not that I'm complaining, but it's extremely easy to cheez the assault now. You might want to redesign the entrance/exit a bit - right now it's a death trap for the enemy. Just station two soldiers atop/to the side and watch the bodies pile up. It's kind of entertaining tbh.

*Step* *Pop* *Pop* *Scream*

It's true that you really have no incentive to wade in and forgo camping the bunker entrance. However if you do opt to storm the base you are treated to one exciting corridor shoot out and a fitting send off to what I consider the toughest cult faction.

I haven't tried the new version with armored cars yet. I wonder if this buys time for more mooks to wander up to the surface? I expect it still plays out rather the same though. I wonder if some kind of time limited objective might work here that puts the player on the offensive?

Edit: Additionally I have a small suggestion. Could we get Cult Arms Dealers moved up earlier in the tech tree? Possibly to having all networks researched instead of operations? As it stands by the time you get it most of those weapons are quite irrelevant. The better ones can still be locked behind promotion tiers or later cult stages, but I don't see the harm in having access to an AK-47 or M-16 a bit earlier if one is so inclined.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 01, 2020, 11:23:05 pm
Red Dawn is supposed to originate from Russia / defunct soviet bloc states, especially the military, right? I heard that a lot of nukes - including those small suitcase-sized ones got "lost" during the dissolution of the soviet union. Maybe Red Dawn has one or two of those on site and a contigency plan in case the base ever got raided? Striclty speaking you only have to recover one memory card...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Golli844 on June 02, 2020, 10:10:16 am
Is there anyway i can force spawn the "Ninja scroll" as it never came up in the game.    I'm pretty far in to the game (advanced lab and plasma weapons unlocked but never seen the ninja scroll)
i captured the dude Lo Wo ages ago and have his scroll of secrets but the ninja scroll is missing so the research path is blocked!

so anyway is there a way to spawn that item in the console for example?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on June 02, 2020, 11:20:11 am

Edit: Additionally I have a small suggestion. Could we get Cult Arms Dealers moved up earlier in the tech tree? Possibly to having all networks researched instead of operations? As it stands by the time you get it most of those weapons are quite irrelevant. The better ones can still be locked behind promotion tiers or later cult stages, but I don't see the harm in having access to an AK-47 or M-16 a bit earlier if one is so inclined.

I agree, might make the startin of a campaign a bit less frustrating

Red Dawn is supposed to originate from Russia / defunct soviet bloc states, especially the military, right? I heard that a lot of nukes - including those small suitcase-sized ones got "lost" during the dissolution of the soviet union. Maybe Red Dawn has one or two of those on site and a contigency plan in case the base ever got raided? Striclty speaking you only have to recover one memory card...

May be an idea for a new kind of mission?

Edit: how about a mission named "hangar 18" set in an atea 51 kinda?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 02, 2020, 12:22:06 pm
Edit: Additionally I have a small suggestion. Could we get Cult Arms Dealers moved up earlier in the tech tree? Possibly to having all networks researched instead of operations? As it stands by the time you get it most of those weapons are quite irrelevant. The better ones can still be locked behind promotion tiers or later cult stages, but I don't see the harm in having access to an AK-47 or M-16 a bit earlier if one is so inclined.
I'd support this, since at the point I'm usually getting access to those weapons there indeed irrelevant. Then again my progression might just be extremely messed up.

May be an idea for a new kind of mission?
More as an incentive to actually enter the Red Dawn HQ and retrieve the memory card.

Edit: how about a mission named "hangar 18" set in an atea 51 kinda?
Don't we already have an Area 51 (defense) mission though? Or was that in another mod?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: xcomfan on June 02, 2020, 03:14:39 pm
Don't we already have an Area 51 (defense) mission though? Or was that in another mod?

Don't know  since ive not explored in detail the mod. Don't wanna be fussy but may be added an MP5K, a conceleable version of the MP5? Just saying  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 02, 2020, 05:08:15 pm
Red Dawn is supposed to originate from Russia / defunct soviet bloc states, especially the military, right? I heard that a lot of nukes - including those small suitcase-sized ones got "lost" during the dissolution of the soviet union. Maybe Red Dawn has one or two of those on site and a contigency plan in case the base ever got raided? Striclty speaking you only have to recover one memory card...

That's possible. I'll add this idea to my loose notes, thanks.

Is there anyway i can force spawn the "Ninja scroll" as it never came up in the game.    I'm pretty far in to the game (advanced lab and plasma weapons unlocked but never seen the ninja scroll)
i captured the dude Lo Wo ages ago and have his scroll of secrets but the ninja scroll is missing so the research path is blocked!

so anyway is there a way to spawn that item in the console for example?

This item can be found in two places:

1. In Black Lotus HQ.
2. Carried by Assassins in the bank robber mission.

The first place is guaranteed, so you shouldn't miss them, unless you turn the whole place into a charred wasteland. So there should be no reason to force this item to spawn. If you still miss it somehow, I can show you how to fix it.

I'd support this, since at the point I'm usually getting access to those weapons there indeed irrelevant. Then again my progression might just be extremely messed up.

Yeah, it's hard to gauge for anyone. I could make these weapons available earlier, but I'm worried it would make earlier designs (standard pistols, MP-5s, the Mosin etc.) even less useful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 02, 2020, 05:38:55 pm
Yeah, it's hard to gauge for anyone. I could make these weapons available earlier, but I'm worried it would make earlier designs (standard pistols, MP-5s, the Mosin etc.) even less useful.
Maybe tie them to the interrogation of higher ranking cult members? As in "Cult member [X] offered to get us into contact with dealer [Y] in exchange for [...]". That way players could get access to higher tier weapons for cult bases but would still have to rely on earlier weapons for hideouts&outposts. How/when do you get access to black ops stuff again?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bonakva on June 02, 2020, 07:23:19 pm
Solarius, what about the idea with Turbolaser Carbine
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on June 02, 2020, 07:38:02 pm
Maybe tie them to the interrogation of higher ranking cult members? As in "Cult member [X] offered to get us into contact with dealer [Y] in exchange for [...]". That way players could get access to higher tier weapons for cult bases but would still have to rely on earlier weapons for hideouts&outposts. How/when do you get access to black ops stuff again?

Perhaps the requisite cult network and one of the low tier officers interrogated? IE complete Red Dawn network and interrogate a Pioneer to get the AK-47. That would put player access somewhere in between Promotion I and II which is about the relevant stage for those weapons.

(Basic Black Ops stuff just requires the Military Envoy, though a lot of it is gated behind Promotion II).

Furthermore I think the Mosin/Bolt action along with the MP5 maintain their own niche against the lower tier assault rifles as superior DMRs and CQB weapons respectively. Playstyles vary, but I find them all useful alongside each other.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on June 04, 2020, 12:52:56 pm
I sorta figured the main utility of the various side grade or IRL weapons wasn't so much a research gate as a stat one. The various black ops weapons (with notable exceptions) require higher stat lines before they edge out the real life weapons in utility. Things like the Black Ops Sniper Rifle only become better than their general production counterparts once a trooper has a high enough aim. The BlOps ARs and Shotguns are all noticeably heavier than their counterparts, meaning you need stronger troopers to use them effectively. That's not even mentioning the price difference.

As it stands, I'm fine with the side grade weapons being useful as is. Either to equip rookie squads once they're purchasable, or to provide irreplaceable firepower from looted stashes before you can openly buy them. I like the idea of government agents failing to report in confiscated weapons because they know that LMG they pulled out of a box might just save their life the next time they're hip-deep in werecats.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 04, 2020, 04:09:12 pm
Maybe tie them to the interrogation of higher ranking cult members? As in "Cult member [X] offered to get us into contact with dealer [Y] in exchange for [...]". That way players could get access to higher tier weapons for cult bases but would still have to rely on earlier weapons for hideouts&outposts.

Do you think it would make that much of a difference? The [Cult] Operations research relies on a high ranking cult member, so it's only one research later (since you need Cult Ops too)... Not sure if worth rebuilding the tech tree.

How/when do you get access to black ops stuff again?

You need the Military Envoy.

(I always get him last, but it depends on the player.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on June 04, 2020, 08:10:06 pm
I think the gun progression is in the right spot so far. I do think the AK47 seems immensely useless, except as an early gun if you got the bullets for it. By the time you can buy an AK47, you can buy a M16, and that's a far more precise gun. The only exception is if you fail to get EXALT operations but still have Cult Arms dealers and Red Dawn Operations.

MP5 is lovely, such a nice little balanced gun. I consider the L85 an upgrade of it.

There's a lot of interesting randomness to drops and such. Stuff like the Bolt-Action Rifle, SKS, QBU...

I have been using a FAL I got from some mooks in big missions. Sweet gun, but feels underpowered? Brazilian army was using FALs until 2000s something, and I know ex-military people. It should be quite stronger than M16.

(the current brazilian rifle is just a plastic NotAFal chambering 5,56mm loool)

I thought Uzis were useless and couldn't hit shit, but I just realized uzi snap shots fire 3x. Now I'm going to spray the fuck out of people with the Black Ops SMG until I no longer feel as if I missed out.

Looking at all the guns, sometimes I feel like I got too many guns, not enough people to carry them in every mission lol. I generally go with a Sniper/Rifle/Shotgun/Greenadier-Pistoleer load-out, add different rifleman and/or submachinegunner if using Hummer or Copter.



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Thermite on June 04, 2020, 08:17:01 pm
No...

But there is nothing there, just the dreaming stuff, that you can access later and isn't really that unique...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on June 04, 2020, 09:16:35 pm
I have been using a FAL I got from some mooks in big missions. Sweet gun, but feels underpowered? Brazilian army was using FALs until 2000s something, and I know ex-military people. It should be quite stronger than M16.

Strange, I find the FAL to be the best all around assault rifle for its highly accurate snap shot and power bonus. All you're giving up vs the M16 is a little firing speed and burst fire accuracy, but I use rifles for aimed and snaps anyway. The M16 puts a lot of the other rifles to shame of course, but I'd rather take most of the 7.62 line if given the chance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on June 05, 2020, 03:42:44 am
Not going to lie, I pick my weapons for aesthetic reasons almost as much as performance. I equip my rookies with FAMAS mostly because it feels like the kind of special snowflake rifle a director would equip to make the XCOM troops seem futuristic if it were a TV show. Sorta like the ubiquitous p90 from SG1, or the CX4 in Battlestar Galactica.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on June 05, 2020, 07:36:31 am


Strange, I find the FAL to be the best all around assault rifle for its highly accurate snap shot and power bonus. All you're giving up vs the M16 is a little firing speed and burst fire accuracy, but I use rifles for aimed and snaps anyway. The M16 puts a lot of the other rifles to shame of course, but I'd rather take most of the 7.62 line if given the chance.

I meant pure power. Even with the power bonus, average damage is lower or same as Magnum. Felt kinda underwhelming

7.62 is a helluva powerful rifle round.

Its a wonderful gun otherwise.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on June 05, 2020, 11:33:59 am

I meant pure power. Even with the power bonus, average damage is lower or same as Magnum. Felt kinda underwhelming

7.62 is a helluva powerful rifle round.

Its a wonderful gun otherwise.

Ah gotcha. Pistols in general compete with rifles in terms of power and mid range accuracy in this modpack. Bit weird, but I like it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: justaround on June 05, 2020, 12:05:50 pm
I can confess that before I get to acquisition of many of cult weapons I usually run around with things much, much better. There's simply no reason for me to invest in AK47, M16 and other FN FALs when I can jump ahead quickly enough to run with UAC and BlackOps stuff. It would make plenty of sense to make average old military weapons much more easily procurable than they are now - I mean, third world country warlords living in the middle of nowhere can easily get themselves crates of similar weapons, but our global hi-tech, internationally-funded organisation with contacts everywhere has to research hi-ranked cultists to get an in on the market?

I understand that in case of some there would be that red tape but in case of others - hell, average US resident, a regular civilian with gun license can shell just a handful of bucks and get a whole crate of mosins delivered to them.

If it's really requiring rebuilding whole tech tree then it's not worth it, but mostly because the rifles themselves are not worth that much compared to alternatives. If however just reordering those network entries would be enough (and possibly getting rid of acquisition entries for the most common stuff weapon markets are flooded with) then those weapons would serve more use than being variety for the sake of aesthetics and would encourage me to research them as some sort of priority, not something to occupy scientists with when I have nothing better to give them.

Also, largely unrelated: would it be possible to have activated directional flashlights built into higher tech pistols and rifles? Such accessories are normally pretty common and it pains me that my super organisation has still to use (way overpriced, but apparently that's by intent) flashlights while carrying their guns even if IRL both civilians and average SWAT-analogue teams can do much better.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 05, 2020, 01:53:54 pm
Solarius, I got a ghost ship spawn (which i abandoned) before being able to upgrade to the new missionscripts.rul - how/where in the save can I reset one time missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 05, 2020, 04:00:01 pm
I have been using a FAL I got from some mooks in big missions. Sweet gun, but feels underpowered? Brazilian army was using FALs until 2000s something, and I know ex-military people. It should be quite stronger than M16.

It is much stronger than the M16 bullet. 2 points higher, and a firing accuracy bonus on top of it.

Also, largely unrelated: would it be possible to have activated directional flashlights built into higher tech pistols and rifles? Such accessories are normally pretty common and it pains me that my super organisation has still to use (way overpriced, but apparently that's by intent) flashlights while carrying their guns even if IRL both civilians and average SWAT-analogue teams can do much better.

Unfortunately no, guns can't give off light. And nothing can project directional light.

Solarius, I got a ghost ship spawn (which i abandoned) before being able to upgrade to the new missionscripts.rul - how/where in the save can I reset one time missions?

Sorry, can't help you much... But the mission is called STR_DR_HADRIEX_CRUISE, and the script's name is drHadriexCruise.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on June 06, 2020, 03:59:16 pm
Isn't the issue with cult weapons justified as transport as much or more than procurement? I mean, you are basically flying your agents in on civilian airliners and presumably shipping the guns in separately to be picked up on site... That's a lot easier to do with weapons that aren't as iconically military as a PKM.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 06, 2020, 06:23:30 pm
Isn't the issue with cult weapons justified as transport as much or more than procurement? I mean, you are basically flying your agents in on civilian airliners and presumably shipping the guns in separately to be picked up on site... That's a lot easier to do with weapons that aren't as iconically military as a PKM.
Curiously the airlines don't seem to have any problem with stuff you looted before getting into contact with the arms dealer...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Slaughter on June 07, 2020, 01:59:58 am
Isn't the issue with cult weapons justified as transport as much or more than procurement? I mean, you are basically flying your agents in on civilian airliners and presumably shipping the guns in separately to be picked up on site... That's a lot easier to do with weapons that aren't as iconically military as a PKM.
I always thought the issue is that most countries are iffy on letting X-COM use big guns, due to it being a jurisprudence nightmare that could be used in dirty ways by other council members ("uh, those aren't Mossad agents sneaking around Iranian Nuclear Reactors. Those are bona-fide X-COM members. They got alien skull insignias in their swimwear and everything. They are uh, investigating... Stuff. Explosives are tools of investigation")

That, and the fact X-COM is probably considered a joke until Promo I. There's always some super-skeptical fellow who believes everything cam be "explained logically".

So they don't allow X-COM to buy and use these guns and ammo for those, but the regulations never said anything about taking it from killed cult members. Classic loophole.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: nicedayright on June 08, 2020, 06:14:04 am
Stuff like this happens IRL with cops and military units. Just for fun, look up some pictures of Brazilian or Argentinian SWAT using Bren guns and shit they've confiscated because their issue weapons just weren't cutting it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 08, 2020, 10:32:45 pm
Solarius, are STR_ALLOY_CANNON_ROUNDS_X50 supposed to cost 80k a pop? They seem kind of unbalanced considering the cost of missiles and the cannon itself. They used to cost ~25k a few versions back iirc, which is kind of managable early on. 80k is pretty substantial early game - that's 360k for a full rearm. Missiles cost a fraction of that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: RolandVasko on June 09, 2020, 10:42:31 am
^^

amybe there should be just 8k per 1piece
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 09, 2020, 01:10:16 pm
Yes, you're right. One 0 too many.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mrvex on June 09, 2020, 03:27:49 pm
Was Chainsaw added recently ? I am playing this mod like since February and only now i discovered it and oh good lord check out its stats
(https://i.imgur.com/fcsMAFf.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 09, 2020, 07:15:48 pm
Not sure what to make of the stats, since it's a "pseudo" melee weapon - i.e. it has a ranged attack for clearing terrain but also a normal melee attack. As far as I can tell the ranged attack has no damage bonus, while the melee attack has 0.5*strength? How does this comapre to other weapons, such as the alloy or plasma sword?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: TheCurse on June 09, 2020, 09:42:00 pm
don't have the stats completely in mind, but even without bonus, 35dmg*5, cutting, at just 30% TUs is far out in the "insane" category...
plasma sword will definately top it though.
it does not seem a hightech lategame item, so its insanely strong, until stuff gets really armored.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on June 09, 2020, 10:34:40 pm
Civilian engineers carry them sometimes. Had a cool moment during a Dagon town attack where one went hero mode and whacked 4 cultists in an alley. I like to think we left that guy our business card.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on June 11, 2020, 06:11:31 pm
Not sure what to make of the stats, since it's a "pseudo" melee weapon - i.e. it has a ranged attack for clearing terrain but also a normal melee attack. As far as I can tell the ranged attack has no damage bonus, while the melee attack has 0.5*strength? How does this comapre to other weapons, such as the alloy or plasma sword?

That attack is for clearing terrain? I guess that's why it keeps getting redirected when I try to use it on enemies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 11, 2020, 06:41:52 pm
Solarius, would you mind reviewing the way alien electronics are researched? Right now they require both an alien engineer and a leader interrogation, but can be gotten for free from an engineer. Is this intended? Because this seems kind of strange, progression wise, especialy if you have the chance of getting this from an engineer anyway.

That attack is for clearing terrain? I guess that's why it keeps getting redirected when I try to use it on enemies.
Well, I guess it would be, judging by the pedia entry and the fact that the kukri&pickaxe handles this the same way. Maybe the mod author can clarify?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: HT on June 11, 2020, 09:00:30 pm
The "aimed" attacks of a chainsaw can work well against zombies, especially if you hit from the back.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 12, 2020, 05:17:24 pm
The avionics mod prereq currently requires multiple advanced crafts to be researched. Is this intended? Wouldn't it be sufficient to just require the ultimate radar craft for this, seeing how it practically is "the" avionics craft (as in, radar detection)? The engine mods have separate unlocks, maybe we could have these for avionics too?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: LuigiWhatif on June 16, 2020, 05:45:23 am
I have some questions about the helix psion enhancement.  I'm still on 1.3.2 in case these are answered in the newer version.  I don't see the requirements for helix psion so I don't know what stats I need.  Second, the image is a hybrid so does that mean it is a hybrid only enhancement?  Finally, is it compatible with the helix knight enhancement?  One of my psi soldiers is eligible for the knight enhancement but I don't want to do it if it will lock them out of helix psion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 17, 2020, 04:39:25 pm
don't have the stats completely in mind, but even without bonus, 35dmg*5, cutting, at just 30% TUs is far out in the "insane" category...
plasma sword will definately top it though.
it does not seem a hightech lategame item, so its insanely strong, until stuff gets really armored.

Against unarmoured enemies all melee is good, and most melee weapons are easier to use than the chainsaw.

Solarius, would you mind reviewing the way alien electronics are researched? Right now they require both an alien engineer and a leader interrogation, but can be gotten for free from an engineer. Is this intended? Because this seems kind of strange, progression wise, especialy if you have the chance of getting this from an engineer anyway.

I HATE this bloody thing! It's always too easy to get and too hard at the same time!

OK, removing this Leader Plus requirement. I'll fix potential issues later.

Well, I guess it would be, judging by the pedia entry and the fact that the kukri&pickaxe handles this the same way. Maybe the mod author can clarify?

What should I clarify? It has two attack modes, that's all. Everything else is self-evident, I think.

The avionics mod prereq currently requires multiple advanced crafts to be researched. Is this intended? Wouldn't it be sufficient to just require the ultimate radar craft for this, seeing how it practically is "the" avionics craft (as in, radar detection)? The engine mods have separate unlocks, maybe we could have these for avionics too?

It's for easier tree modification in the future, and isn't exactly illogical or anything like that.

I have some questions about the helix psion enhancement.  I'm still on 1.3.2 in case these are answered in the newer version.  I don't see the requirements for helix psion so I don't know what stats I need.

The description says it directly: you need all other transformations on your hybrid.

Second, the image is a hybrid so does that mean it is a hybrid only enhancement?

...obviously?

Finally, is it compatible with the helix knight enhancement?

Obviously not, since the Helix Knight is human only.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: LuigiWhatif on June 19, 2020, 04:13:34 am
Thank you for the answer.  Though in my defense the text never directly mentions hybrids and only uses the broad term "humanity."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mrvex on June 28, 2020, 08:17:57 pm
Can the ammo weight for taser cannon be reduced by half atleast ? Like its 22 for 2 shot magazine and that is abit ludicrous. Look i guess the batteries to power this thing aint gona be light as a feather but...

Lets compare it to the standard Taser
Weight 5
Max range 5
Clip size 2
Clip weight 2 (So a loaded taser has 7 weight points)
44 electric damage.

Taser Cannon
Weight - 16
Max range - 10
Clip size - 2
Clip weight - 22 (So a loaded Taser Cannon alone weights 38 points, which is more than loaded multi rocket launcher (8 rockets) which stands at 32)
65 electric damage.

Since the statistic jump isnt anything ground breaking, damage boost isnt even double the default and range is doubled. Shouldnt battery pack weight only like 2.5x - 2.7x as much as the standard tazer clip ?

It really makes it quite unattractive option since only with powerarmour or synthsuits you can carry it, with already heavy armours like Tritanium Suit you wont have room for anything else and at the point where you will be running around in power armours and synthsuits you can simply grab the electric prod and smack them for 72 electric stun points or throw barrages of stun grenades... or snipe them with tranq darts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 28, 2020, 08:35:07 pm
I'd agree with this. As far as I can tell - at least from my latest playthrough - is that the Taser Cannon is a pretty niche weapon given the stats and when it (usually) becomes available. The only early game mission I could have imagined using it is against Black Lotus - specifically to stun the Avatar when it's flying. But I was able to bring her down with Tasers just fine, so I didn't actually need the cannon. Everything else is probably better served by lighter weapons that can carry more ammunition or by melee (Stun rod etc.). But maybe I'm missing something here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mrvex on June 28, 2020, 08:49:58 pm
I'd agree with this. As far as I can tell - at least from my latest playthrough - is that the Taser Cannon is a pretty niche weapon given the stats and when it (usually) becomes available. The only early game mission I could have imagined using it is against Black Lotus - specifically to stun the Avatar when it's flying. But I was able to bring her down with Tasers just fine, so I didn't actually need the cannon. Everything else is probably better served by lighter weapons that can carry more ammunition or by melee (Stun rod etc.). But maybe I'm missing something here.

When i was studying its stats in UFOpedia it seems that Taser cannon has splash damage ? Well not sure when was the last time i was trying to capture 6 dudes at once, if its flying, i'll swat it out with baton shotgun shells, if its crap at melee (iek sectoids) then i will bash their skull in. If its dangerous up close, then i will snipe it with tranq darts and baton shells. If i need one guy out of group of 5, i'll just stun the one i need and mow down the rest with auto fire. Its not like you even need to capture bulk enemies, most of the time need you need one specific enemy which is usually visually disctinct from his mates and doesnt go in mobs of 5 or more. And selling them for pocket change isnt worth the risk of them waking up and shooting you in the back, i'll rather stun one, handcuff him (even multiple times, just to be sure) and then start killing others. They will surrender eventually so its not like i wont have any other captures aside from my VIP.

Another bonus for other weapons is that you can usually carry something else. Stun Rod can be in your inventory while your dude has assault rifle in his hand and can switch at any time. Baton shells can be quickly ejected and real buckshots can be loaded in when its time to kill. If you have taser cannon, what else you can bring ? So only the top % strenght agents can carry atleast a pistol ?.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bobit on June 29, 2020, 02:57:15 am
No I disagree, the Taser Cannon is the only good long-range early game stun gun. Long-range stun is very valuable in the early game as the sole goal of many missions is to capture the commander. It's niche, but that's okay, it would not be fun as a widespread weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 29, 2020, 01:27:13 pm
Why would I go with an extremly heavy weapon that can only fire twice (with each shot costing 40% TUs) and risk reaction fire when I can carry multiple flashbangs and a taser/stun rod instead? I simply don't see the rational behind the weapon the way it's currently implemented.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: TheCurse on June 29, 2020, 06:31:07 pm
Why would I go with an extremly heavy weapon that can only fire twice (with each shot costing 40% TUs) and risk reaction fire when I can carry multiple flashbangs and a taser/stun rod instead? I simply don't see the rational behind the weapon the way it's currently implemented.
I agree. Sometimes you need ranged stun, if enemy stats are too high, but that thing is just too cumbersome, even compared to the smaller taser.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 30, 2020, 11:35:18 am
Can the ammo weight for taser cannon be reduced by half atleast ?

How, by magic? These are the 1990's, not 2077.

Like its 22 for 2 shot magazine and that is abit ludicrous.

> Chief Engineer's face when

Look i guess the batteries to power this thing aint gona be light as a feather but...

Lets compare it to the standard Taser
Weight 5
Max range 5
Clip size 2
Clip weight 2 (So a loaded taser has 7 weight points)
44 electric damage.

Taser Cannon
Weight - 16
Max range - 10
Clip size - 2
Clip weight - 22 (So a loaded Taser Cannon alone weights 38 points, which is more than loaded multi rocket launcher (8 rockets) which stands at 32)
65 electric damage.

Since the statistic jump isnt anything ground breaking, damage boost isnt even double the default and range is doubled. Shouldnt battery pack weight only like 2.5x - 2.7x as much as the standard tazer clip ?

Yes, of course it's inefficient as hell. It's a taser using perfectly mundane tech. We work with what we have!

It really makes it quite unattractive option since only with powerarmour or synthsuits you can carry it

Nah, it's just not true.

with already heavy armours like Tritanium Suit you wont have room for anything else

Why on Earth told you to use these things together? Why not wear a jumpsuit?

and at the point where you will be running around in power armours and synthsuits you can simply grab the electric prod and smack them for 72 electric stun points or throw barrages of stun grenades... or snipe them with tranq darts.

That much is trivial, yes.

Well, specialist equipment is specialist. If it doesn't fit your squad profile, use something else. The same can be said about land mines, skulljacks, and other such stuff. It's for people who play like this.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 30, 2020, 02:46:17 pm
Solarius, with all due respect, but how do you imagine this "mundane tech" is supposed to work? Are we loading car batteries into that cannon? As far as I am aware tasers usually work by transforming a low-voltage source (e.g. 1.5V / AA batteries) into a high-voltage/low-amp current. What do you attribute that additional weight to (if this supposed to be related or based on anything in reality)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 30, 2020, 08:35:18 pm
Solarius, with all due respect, but how do you imagine this "mundane tech" is supposed to work? Are we loading car batteries into that cannon?

OK, not that mundane... :)

As far as I am aware tasers usually work by transforming a low-voltage source (e.g. 1.5V / AA batteries) into a high-voltage/low-amp current. What do you attribute that additional weight to (if this supposed to be related or based on anything in reality)?

Just energy storage. This is pretty much a modified car battery.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on June 30, 2020, 10:15:51 pm
Just energy storage. This is pretty much a modified car battery.

Yes but also no

A typical AA battery has a capacity of 2000 mAh. A car battery has ~100000 mAh (100 Ah).

The AA-battery at 1.5 V has about 3 Watt hours. The car battery at 12 V has 1.2 kilo-watt hours.

That's 600 watt hours per shot. Let's be generous and assume that energy is dumped into the target in one second. That equates to 720000 Joule or 720 KJ. The kinetic energy of a typical car moving at 60 mph/100kmh is about 500 KJ.

Solarius, what happens when the human body is hit by a car moving at 100 km/h? Do you think that whatever human-sized target hit by that weapon is going to answer any questions in the forseeable future?

;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Nalca on July 01, 2020, 01:32:14 am
How about using an elerium battery ?
Because, being able to make a plasma canon and not a light taser canon look really lame.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: TheCurse on July 01, 2020, 01:34:41 am
those shots better be kinda more powerful then... >_>
for comparison (additionally), a 50cal bullet carries 15-20kj at muzzle exit.
so that tazer is like 36 HMG or barret shots.
thats in the "punctures UFO hulls" category, on the far side...
400kj is like 1kg of TNT, so kinda highEx. but taser is concentrated in one tiny shot...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mathel on July 01, 2020, 09:40:44 am
Yes but also no

A typical AA battery has a capacity of 2000 mAh. A car battery has ~100000 mAh (100 Ah).

The AA-battery at 1.5 V has about 3 Watt hours. The car battery at 12 V has 1.2 kilo-watt hours.

That's 600 watt hours per shot. Let's be generous and assume that energy is dumped into the target in one second. That equates to 720000 Joule or 720 KJ. The kinetic energy of a typical car moving at 60 mph/100kmh is about 500 KJ.

Solarius, what happens when the human body is hit by a car moving at 100 km/h? Do you think that whatever human-sized target hit by that weapon is going to answer any questions in the forseeable future?

;)

There is another issue with car batteries (and any other chemical batteries). You can't just dump all that energy at once, even if you short circuit them. The chemical reaction needs time to happen. You would actually need capacitors for that. And the problem with capacitors is, that they can't store a lot of energy.

Perhaps the 'clip' is actually a smaller chemical battery, custom made by X-Com, and a massive bank of capacitors.
The battery could store more energy than you need to do two shots, but the two shots are all that fits into the capacitors, and they would need too long to recharge. The battery would then be there just to keep them topped off.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 01, 2020, 11:19:46 am
Yes but also no

A typical AA battery has a capacity of 2000 mAh. A car battery has ~100000 mAh (100 Ah).

The AA-battery at 1.5 V has about 3 Watt hours. The car battery at 12 V has 1.2 kilo-watt hours.

That's 600 watt hours per shot. Let's be generous and assume that energy is dumped into the target in one second. That equates to 720000 Joule or 720 KJ. The kinetic energy of a typical car moving at 60 mph/100kmh is about 500 KJ.

Solarius, what happens when the human body is hit by a car moving at 100 km/h? Do you think that whatever human-sized target hit by that weapon is going to answer any questions in the forseeable future?

;)

I assume I haven't calculated the calculations, but in fact the entire concept is rather sci-fi, so I assume that the method to project the discharge over such long distances somehow requires large amounts of energy. No, I don't know why this doesn't work like a normal lightning, which is why we have a goddamn not-tony-Stark to figure it out for us. :)

How about using an elerium battery ?
Because, being able to make a plasma canon and not a light taser canon look really lame.

Yes, an E-115 battery could be much lighter and smaller, but produce the same effect. Good point.

(Not sure how balanced they would be against other ranged stun weapons, though...)

There is another issue with car batteries (and any other chemical batteries). You can't just dump all that energy at once, even if you short circuit them. The chemical reaction needs time to happen. You would actually need capacitors for that. And the problem with capacitors is, that they can't store a lot of energy.

Yeah, that's true as well. Again, I'll dump it on "no-Stark makes it work with high tech". I don't want anything actually silly, but I don't think we should have the exact explanation of every technical detail, as long as it doesn't seem illogical.

Perhaps the 'clip' is actually a smaller chemical battery, custom made by X-Com, and a massive bank of capacitors.
The battery could store more energy than you need to do two shots, but the two shots are all that fits into the capacitors, and they would need too long to recharge. The battery would then be there just to keep them topped off.

That is a plausible explanation, yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: HT on July 01, 2020, 04:00:39 pm

(Not sure how balanced they would be against other ranged stun weapons, though...)


Make it a researchable clip that uses Elerium Batteries to produce greater electric shocks with more power and less weight, translating into a special magazine that requires Elerium to build that does more damage, can shoot 4 times, has better range and weights less.

In terms of effectiveness it would be behind the Stun Launcher, the ultimate non-lethal weapon. There are better options in the Power Mace and Stun Rods, but these require melee, which makes the improved Heavy Taser better until the endgame.

The dart guns are okay too, but they take ages to build and don't work against zombies and machines, so it should be okay.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on July 01, 2020, 05:38:47 pm
Yeah, I think this would be an option. Maybe also something inbetween, like a magazine that uses alien alloys to at least make it lighter/easier to carry?

Something totally unrelated - I just noticed that the Abomination Entity is housed in the animal pen? Is this intended? Swarmids for example use alien containment - as far as I can tell abominations are even more alien, seeing how they can simply transform other lifeforms into more abominations. What exactely are the cages x-com uses to contain animals made out of?

I just imagined x-com some poor council member visiting x-com to inspect the base:

"And here is our animal containment facility. We're currently housing a werewolf and a werecat, a giant frog, some kind of direwolf and a larger-than-normal scorpion. Also there's this extradimensional entity that transforms other living beings into more of itself. We're calling it Frederick. The reason there's two of them right now is that the last council member got too close to the cage."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 01, 2020, 08:38:46 pm
Make it a researchable clip that uses Elerium Batteries to produce greater electric shocks with more power and less weight, translating into a special magazine that requires Elerium to build that does more damage, can shoot 4 times, has better range and weights less.

Maybe without increasing the power, for alance reasons (also because the weapon remains the same).

In terms of effectiveness it would be behind the Stun Launcher, the ultimate non-lethal weapon. There are better options in the Power Mace and Stun Rods, but these require melee, which makes the improved Heavy Taser better until the endgame.

The Stun Launcher? But it has nothing to do with the Stun Launcher, tech wise! The Taser Cannon is still electric, even if powered by E-115.

So long story short, I'll put it on the list.

Something totally unrelated - I just noticed that the Abomination Entity is housed in the animal pen? Is this intended? Swarmids for example use alien containment - as far as I can tell abominations are even more alien, seeing how they can simply transform other lifeforms into more abominations. What exactely are the cages x-com uses to contain animals made out of?

A very good point! Fixing.

I just imagined x-com some poor council member visiting x-com to inspect the base:

"And here is our animal containment facility. We're currently housing a werewolf and a werecat, a giant frog, some kind of direwolf and a larger-than-normal scorpion. Also there's this extradimensional entity that transforms other living beings into more of itself. We're calling it Frederick. The reason there's two of them right now is that the last council member got too close to the cage."

Priceless! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: HT on July 01, 2020, 09:21:33 pm
Maybe without increasing the power, for alance reasons (also because the weapon remains the same).

To be fair, special ammo for many guns does increase the power of the gun itself. IE: Any weapon's standard ammo vs the armor alloy version.

Speaking of: Alien Alloy Ammo (aka AAA) sounds better than Tritanium Ammo. Give us AAA back, please!   :)

The Stun Launcher? But it has nothing to do with the Stun Launcher, tech wise! The Taser Cannon is still electric, even if powered by E-115.

I know they're unrelated tech-wise, but it is the natural progression of sorts. The Stun Launcher is the best non-lethal weapon, or at least better than the Taser Cannon.

Priceless! :)

Could be remade into a Staff Input event.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 02, 2020, 10:42:40 am
To be fair, special ammo for many guns does increase the power of the gun itself. IE: Any weapon's standard ammo vs the armor alloy version.

You don't say? ;D

Speaking of: Alien Alloy Ammo (aka AAA) sounds better than Tritanium Ammo. Give us AAA back, please!   :)

Sorry, with how prevalent it became, it's hard to call it alien any more... :) But the more immediate reason was that it sounds really goddamn dumb. Maybe not so much in English, which is very forgiving to cringe, but this mod isn't just in English.

I know they're unrelated tech-wise, but it is the natural progression of sorts.

No, they're not natural, it's a total ass pull. Like, "inventing horse riding requires seafaring because both are means of transportation".

The Stun Launcher is the best non-lethal weapon, or at least better than the Taser Cannon.

Could be remade into a Staff Input event.

Yeah, I made a note.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Doc on July 02, 2020, 11:33:34 am
Tritanium sounds better to my English ears as well. It's fair to call something an Alien Alloy when first discovered, but after it's been researched, mass produced and incorporated into a variety of earth made technologies it would be weird to keep calling them that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on July 02, 2020, 06:20:28 pm
Out of curiosity, which arc will be the next one to get an expansion? Cult of Apocalypse seems like it's got some of the infrastructure needed for its final part given the references to that "Doom Portal" in the code, but since Shogg is one of the big three threats mentioned in Summary Report #3 it seems just as likely it's going to be completed first.

Also, another unrelated question: is the Black Sun the man behind the man for the Syndicate? Its entry did say that it used the Syndicate as a proxy, but I'm not sure if that meant they were allies or something else.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 03, 2020, 01:27:34 pm
Out of curiosity, which arc will be the next one to get an expansion? Cult of Apocalypse seems like it's got some of the infrastructure needed for its final part given the references to that "Doom Portal" in the code, but since Shogg is one of the big three threats mentioned in Summary Report #3 it seems just as likely it's going to be completed first.

Frankly, probably none. With 1.5 I mostly focus on various long due changes, like weapons using proper ammo, adding some stuff for which I had the resources for a long time, adding some Pedia pages, boring rebalances, fixing minor glitches. Useful work, but most of it not very flashy.

I would like to make at least one new mission though, since a release with no new missions feels lame. Hopefully something with the Cult of Apocalypse and UAC.

Also, another unrelated question: is the Black Sun the man behind the man for the Syndicate? Its entry did say that it used the Syndicate as a proxy, but I'm not sure if that meant they were allies or something else.

Well, that's hard spoiler territory.
Yes, the Syndicate is a proxy organization to the Black Sun. Syndicate people aren't Black Sun members though, and most don't even know of its existence.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on July 04, 2020, 10:03:13 am
Frankly, probably none. With 1.5 I mostly focus on various long due changes, like weapons using proper ammo, adding some stuff for which I had the resources for a long time, adding some Pedia pages, boring rebalances, fixing minor glitches. Useful work, but most of it not very flashy.

I would like to make at least one new mission though, since a release with no new missions feels lame. Hopefully something with the Cult of Apocalypse and UAC.

Well, that's hard spoiler territory.
Yes, the Syndicate is a proxy organization to the Black Sun. Syndicate people aren't Black Sun members though, and most don't even know of its existence.

Yeah, I suspected that something was up with the UAC given that the Cult of Apocalypse uses their weapons almost exclusively, and seeing that it's already got Doom references throughout you may as well play with that angle too. The sprites for a bunch of Doom enemies in X-Com should already be floating around thanks to Piratez- why not improve on what Piratez has and throw in things like Mancubus and the Arch-Vile? If you also need a boss-type one, there's always the Cyberdemon too.

Yeah, that rambling about "subhumanity"in the final testament sounded like the type of thing a Nazi would talk about, lunar or otherwise. Was that written by someone in their organization or is the Syndicate run by entirely different aliens?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 04, 2020, 12:46:06 pm
Yeah, I suspected that something was up with the UAC given that the Cult of Apocalypse uses their weapons almost exclusively, and seeing that it's already got Doom references throughout you may as well play with that angle too.

Yes, that's the idea since the beginning.

The sprites for a bunch of Doom enemies in X-Com should already be floating around thanks to Piratez- why not improve on what Piratez has and throw in things like Mancubus and the Arch-Vile? If you also need a boss-type one, there's always the Cyberdemon too.

Mancubi are too big, Arch-Viles resurrect units which is not doable AFAIK, and well, I don't have the sprites.

Yeah, that rambling about "subhumanity"in the final testament sounded like the type of thing a Nazi would talk about, lunar or otherwise. Was that written by someone in their organization or is the Syndicate run by entirely different aliens?

The Syndicate
is not run by any aliens. It's actually hostile to them, though it never comes up in the mod
.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on July 04, 2020, 11:02:12 pm
Yes, that's the idea since the beginning.

Mancubi are too big, Arch-Viles resurrect units which is not doable AFAIK, and well, I don't have the sprites.

The Syndicate
is not run by any aliens. It's actually hostile to them, though it never comes up in the mod
.

What about Revenants or Arachnotrons? As for Arch-viles, I guess you could have them just stick to AoE fire attacks, nobody would blame you for watering them down. And now that I think of it, the Bug-Eyed Ghost sprite does look an awful lot like the Pain Elemental- shouldn't take long to tweak it for that purpose, I think.

That explains why the Syndicate gives you the embassy key, I guess.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: RolandVasko on July 06, 2020, 01:58:45 am
To be fair, special ammo for many guns does increase the power of the gun itself. IE: Any weapon's standard ammo vs the armor alloy version.

Speaking of: Alien Alloy Ammo (aka AAA) sounds better than Tritanium Ammo. Give us AAA back, please!   :)


hehe, it´s sounds like *AAA-Auto advertisement! :D  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 06, 2020, 10:43:03 am
What about Revenants or Arachnotrons? As for Arch-viles, I guess you could have them just stick to AoE fire attacks, nobody would blame you for watering them down. And now that I think of it, the Bug-Eyed Ghost sprite does look an awful lot like the Pain Elemental- shouldn't take long to tweak it for that purpose, I think.

I'm not that great with Doom lore. But well, anything is possible. For now I am not planning on adding any Doom stuff soon (I have plenty of other stuff to do), but if the time comes, then it's entirely possible.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on July 06, 2020, 12:03:48 pm
There is another issue with car batteries (and any other chemical batteries). You can't just dump all that energy at once, even if you short circuit them. The chemical reaction needs time to happen. You would actually need capacitors for that. And the problem with capacitors is, that they can't store a lot of energy.

Perhaps the 'clip' is actually a smaller chemical battery, custom made by X-Com, and a massive bank of capacitors.
The battery could store more energy than you need to do two shots, but the two shots are all that fits into the capacitors, and they would need too long to recharge. The battery would then be there just to keep them topped off.

No, you don't need large capacitors.
From the wiki of Ignition coil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_coil)
Quote
An ignition coil (also called a spark coil) is an induction coil in an automobile's ignition system that transforms the battery's low voltage to the thousands of volts needed to create an electric spark in the spark plugs to ignite the fuel.

So a taser powered by car battery and ignition coil can do dozens of high voltage hits. Hitting a normal human with the full power will likely kill him on the spot, but we can imagine that the agent controls the output with some knob.

As for the delivery method, I assume it is the same for the normal taser: a bunch of wires with arrow heads are launched at the target and make contact. An arc lightning will hit the closest uninsulated surface - usually the agent holding this contraption unless he wears protective gear. In the later case it will arc to the ground.

So yeah if you want to be realistic the Taser Cannon is way too underpowered (either in power or in number of hits per battery) for what we could do with the 90's technology.

I am not complaining actually, hitting that Black Lotus Avatar with it was very satisfying.  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on July 06, 2020, 01:01:01 pm
On to the nitpicking...

No, you don't need large capacitors[...]

Voltage != Current

You would need some kind of reservoir provided the battery is supposed to be depleted after only two hits, and you'd need some big gauge wires to transfer that current or the wire would simply evaporate (if we're talking car batteries or similar).

As for the delivery method, I assume it is the same for the normal taser: a bunch of wires with arrow heads are launched at the target and make contact. An arc lightning will hit the closest uninsulated surface - usually the agent holding this contraption unless he wears protective gear. In the later case it will arc to the ground.
There's a reason tasers don't have "a bunch" of wires, but only two - you want that voltage across the target, not across the target and the ground. One is positve, the other negative. The wires are insulted to prevent shorts during/after firing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Cynus_X on July 06, 2020, 01:17:00 pm
I got some "criminal records" from the mission "shady Tavern". But I cant research it, nor does it show up in the tech tree. Which is peculiar since you can even research a drivers license. I thought they would give me some dossiers or an explanation like: These records contain the names of regular criminals not worth the attention of Xcom.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on July 06, 2020, 01:22:24 pm
Check the Ufopedia entry (under artifacts).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 06, 2020, 03:47:11 pm
This is strange, but latest version OXCE 6.5.3 for Windows 64-bit + The X-Com Files v.1.4a does not load, while OXCE 6.5.3 for Windows 32-bit + The X-Com Files v.1.4a normally loads under windows 10...  :-\

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on July 06, 2020, 05:57:39 pm
Unclear - does it load fine when you replace the 64-bit exec with the 32-bit one? Can't recreate, mod runs fine with 64-bit 6.5.3, but under win 7.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mathel on July 06, 2020, 06:14:35 pm
No, you don't need large capacitors.
From the wiki of Ignition coil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_coil)
So a taser powered by car battery and ignition coil can do dozens of high voltage hits. Hitting a normal human with the full power will likely kill him on the spot, but we can imagine that the agent controls the output with some knob.

As for the delivery method, I assume it is the same for the normal taser: a bunch of wires with arrow heads are launched at the target and make contact. An arc lightning will hit the closest uninsulated surface - usually the agent holding this contraption unless he wears protective gear. In the later case it will arc to the ground.

So yeah if you want to be realistic the Taser Cannon is way too underpowered (either in power or in number of hits per battery) for what we could do with the 90's technology.

I am not complaining actually, hitting that Black Lotus Avatar with it was very satisfying.  8)

The reason why the clip has to be capacitors is not the voltage.
It is that you can't possibly empty a chemical battery in 10s.
A chemical battery is composed from electrochemical cells. Each cell has two electrodes and an electrolyte which reacts with them.
This reaction pushes electrons into one of the electrodes and pulls them from the other.

Speed of any chemical reaction depends on:
Temperature, concentration of products, concentration of reactants, and surface. (and obviously what reaction it is.)
To get the fastest reaction at any given temperature, you have to have only reactants, in the perfect ratio, perfectly mixed.
This is not the case with batteries. You have the electrodes and the electrolyte is between them. Concentration of reactants is how charged the battery is. Concentration of products is inverse of that, combined with resistance, impedance and capacitance of the circuit.
Voltage of a battery is how far it is from equilibrium of the reaction. (Increasing resistance slows down the reaction, because the produced electrons can't leave that quickly, so it can't pull them on the other side as quickly either)
So even at 0 resistance, the reaction will still be slowed down by the electrodes not being mixed in, and by the battery not being perfectly charged.

Not that you would want to discharge a battery in 10s. It is an exothermic reaction. Waste heat would light your gun on fire, vaporise the electrolyte and cause the battery to explode.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 07, 2020, 08:50:39 am
OXCE 6.5.3 64-bit (Extended-6.5.3-01283d3a0-2020-05-28-win64.7z) + The X-Com Files v.1.4a: not loading on Win10, when loading an error message
OXCE 6.5.3 32-bit (Extended-6.5.3-01283d3a0-2020-05-28-win32.7z) + The X-Com Files v.1.4a: loads without problems on WinXP 32bit (SP3) and Win10
I have not tried on Win7 64bit yet
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: TheCurse on July 07, 2020, 09:11:49 am
ye but even a capacitor of that immense charge would be a lot lighter than that...
(i´d suspect a smaller battery part to charge the large capacitor, its usualy for setups with those requirements)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on July 07, 2020, 10:21:14 am
I'm not that great with Doom lore. But well, anything is possible. For now I am not planning on adding any Doom stuff soon (I have plenty of other stuff to do), but if the time comes, then it's entirely possible.

The lore wasn't really a thing until Doom 2016 anyway, so don't worry about it. It's just something to think about for the Cult of Apocalypse finale, that's all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on July 07, 2020, 04:06:28 pm
ye but even a capacitor of that immense charge would be a lot lighter than that...
(i´d suspect a smaller battery part to charge the large capacitor, its usualy for setups with those requirements)

How fast does a capacitor loose charge?
The agents could conceivebly charge it the base, from the aircraft they use or from an outlet somewhere while traveling with public/private transport. So they might not even need a chemical battery with the ammo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mathel on July 07, 2020, 05:25:42 pm
How fast does a capacitor loose charge?
The agents could conceivebly charge it the base, from the aircraft they use or from an outlet somewhere while traveling with public/private transport. So they might not even need a chemical battery with the ammo.
From searching the internet:
Quote from: http://www.robotroom.com/Capacitor-Self-Discharge-1.html
Capacitors are poor at long-term energy storage. The best capacitor I tested lost 5% of its voltage overnight; the worst lost 50% in 5 minutes.

So if they were good capacitors, indeed no battery needed. They could charge up while traveling/on base (depending on how long they travel).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Cynus_X on July 08, 2020, 02:54:20 pm
Okay. So apparently your agent gets the "Betrayer" commendation after he loses consciousness whilst carrying a live knockout grenade  :o. Seems a bit rude to put on his gravestone when his family visits his grave  ;D

Edit: The agent in question got hit by a grenade launcher, then passed out, and then his own knockout grenade killed him. Didn't know X-com was a catholic organisation to judge suicide so harshly  :D

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: HT on July 08, 2020, 03:20:54 pm
Okay. So apparently your agent gets the "Betrayer" commendation after he loses consciousness whilst carrying a live knockout grenade  :o. Seems a bit rude to put on his gravestone when his family visits his grave  ;D

Lol, it's quite unfortunate to die from such grenade, unless the agent was already wounded, which would explain the stun damage overload which resulted on his dead.


That reminds me: If you throw two different explosives timed at 0 one near another, will the two explode one after the other, or will the first explosion destroy the second explosive without triggering detonation? I would say it's the first one, but explosions can destroy objects such as corpses if you're careless, so I wished to confirm.
Say you throw a regular grenade along with an Alien Alloy fragmentation grenade against the same target.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 09, 2020, 11:04:48 am
That reminds me: If you throw two different explosives timed at 0 one near another, will the two explode one after the other, or will the first explosion destroy the second explosive without triggering detonation?

The second: the first explosion will destroy the other grenade without exploding it. Of course, provided that the damage is high enough to actually overcome the second grenade's armour value.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on July 10, 2020, 12:51:54 pm
That happens in the original X-COM with the starting grenade, but most explosives can survive their own explosion after that, so you are fine. You can also use this little trick to clear proximity grenades and such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Vangrimar1 on July 12, 2020, 08:18:26 am
Sometimes, when I send a transport to a mission, two alien probes attack it. At the same time, they arise suddenly and directly in transport. Is this a scripted attack? You can usually track when a UFO is intercepted.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on July 16, 2020, 10:07:45 pm
Solarius, can the the neon-bow, crossblaster etc. only be recovered during a certain encounter or they carried by other units/spawned anywhere else? From what I can tell they don't appear anywhere else. Do you have any plans to crop up on other missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on July 17, 2020, 12:10:54 am
I noticed in Dr. Hadriex's interrogation that he was something called an Augur. What's that? Something to do with the ghost arc?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 24, 2020, 01:48:20 pm
Hello and sorry for not showing up for two weeks, summer holidays happened.

Sometimes, when I send a transport to a mission, two alien probes attack it. At the same time, they arise suddenly and directly in transport. Is this a scripted attack? You can usually track when a UFO is intercepted.

Not sure what you mean. What's an "alien probe"? What does it mean that "they arise suddenly"? But I don't think I've scripted anything related to air combat like this.

Solarius, can the the neon-bow, crossblaster etc. only be recovered during a certain encounter or they carried by other units/spawned anywhere else? From what I can tell they don't appear anywhere else. Do you have any plans to crop up on other missions?

As of now. these two weapons can only be found at that one mission. Unless maybe I allowed Osiron to have them in storage, but I doubt it.

I noticed in Dr. Hadriex's interrogation that he was something called an Augur. What's that? Something to do with the ghost arc?

Yeah, it's not very fleshed out yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mathel on July 24, 2020, 05:56:49 pm
Not sure what you mean. What's an "alien probe"? What does it mean that "they arise suddenly"? But I don't think I've scripted anything related to air combat like this.
They probably mean small fighter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Protagonista on August 06, 2020, 08:13:33 am
Hey everyone, Im new here and about to start on this mod. Xcom-files seens to be gigantic, what are the new mechanincs that I should know? Like, how do handcuffs work? What is Sanity?

A big thank you to the developers!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: the nomad on August 06, 2020, 10:40:31 am
Sanity is the agent's tendency to flip out basically. In certain tense missions, sanity decreases each turn. Once it decreases enough your morale starts to go down, which in turn causes your agents to panic. I am not a master of its mechanics myself though.

Handcuffs are used so stunned enemies do not get up, but stronger enemies can break it, and you can't handcuff certain enemies like many monsters etc.

All these new mechanics are described in ufopedia though, check it out, there are a lot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on August 06, 2020, 04:45:18 pm
Mechanically, Handcuffs seems to be a medikit that increases stun damage. So an anti-stimulant. Enemies will still wake up eventually.

Alternatively hitting them with the taser once on the ground does a similar job, unless I miss something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on August 06, 2020, 05:43:30 pm
Mechanically, Handcuffs seems to be a medikit that increases stun damage. So an anti-stimulant. Enemies will still wake up eventually.

Alternatively hitting them with the taser once on the ground does a similar job, unless I miss something.
Handcuffs are script-based, they apply (or rather SET) the stun-leve every round.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: the nomad on August 06, 2020, 09:49:21 pm
Mechanically, Handcuffs seems to be a medikit that increases stun damage. So an anti-stimulant. Enemies will still wake up eventually.

Alternatively hitting them with the taser once on the ground does a similar job, unless I miss something.

Oh, that is probably why after arresting they sometimes go to overstun and die then. Makes sense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 08, 2020, 12:08:27 pm
Krautbernd was right, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: krautbernd on August 08, 2020, 01:04:38 pm
Overstun should also be fixed in the newest version afaik, except for the first round that units are handcuffed. All subsequent script runs should correctly (re)set stun level so the unit takes no damage from overstun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on August 10, 2020, 08:49:51 am
Overstun should also be fixed in the newest version afaik, except for the first round that units are handcuffed. All subsequent script runs should correctly (re)set stun level so the unit takes no damage from overstun.

How do enemies break free?
Is it some calculation with strength?
Is there any point to putting two handcuffs on the same target?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Fomka on August 11, 2020, 04:25:36 pm
I noticed in Dr. Hadriex's interrogation that he was something called an Augur. What's that? Something to do with the ghost arc?
Yeah, it's not very fleshed out yet.

Can someone tell me why Dr. Hadriex is in the list of X-Com's Friends on The Council ? He was missing and is hostile towards X-Com upon discovery.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mrvex on August 11, 2020, 08:12:04 pm
Yeah, it's not very fleshed out yet.


Can someone tell me why Dr. Hadriex is in the list of X-Com's Friends on The Council ? He was missing and is hostile towards X-Com upon discovery.

When a bunch of MiB or WH40k guardsmen lookalike's board a ship with a helicoter or some military dropship and start shooting everyone (including ghosts). Then i am pretty sure them being XCOM troops is the least likely explanation. They could be the actual Mib, Exalt, Syndicate or some SpecOps from NATO or PRC who all spell trouble for the murderous doctor.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 12, 2020, 12:12:07 pm
Can someone tell me why Dr. Hadriex is in the list of X-Com's Friends on The Council ? He was missing and is hostile towards X-Com upon discovery.

He's probably family. Must be an exciting story.


When a bunch of MiB or WH40k guardsmen lookalike's board a ship with a helicoter or some military dropship and start shooting everyone (including ghosts). Then i am pretty sure them being XCOM troops is the least likely explanation. They could be the actual Mib, Exalt, Syndicate or some SpecOps from NATO or PRC who all spell trouble for the murderous doctor.

The experts are still arguing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on August 14, 2020, 01:22:44 am
He's probably family. Must be an exciting story.


The experts are still arguing.

May be, she is his wife (pictured on the right), who is an actual Doctor (I vote for this one).

May be, no relation like Mike Tyson - Neil DeGrasse Tyson (boooooring).

May be, it is just a typo and his real name is Dr. Hydrolox.

We may never know.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 14, 2020, 06:59:18 pm
Yeah, it's not very fleshed out yet.


Can someone tell me why Dr. Hadriex is in the list of X-Com's Friends on The Council ? He was missing and is hostile towards X-Com upon discovery.

As a more serious reply, it's actually a list of people who donated to Solarious's Patreon enough to get a mention in-game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Protagonista on August 16, 2020, 01:27:54 am
Hey everyone thanks for the tips on sanity and handcuffs! Boy, Im only in 1998 yet and theres a big dificulty spike! My agents have a lifespan of 2 missions...

Enemies have granades, all I have is flashbangs, not even smoke granades...
Still only in kevlar armor...
Still only in helicopters, and that means only 6 agents agains up to 20 zombies/spiders/warewolfs...
Every mission begins with my 6 agents surronded by cult members/monsters looking at then with full TUs, meaning reaction shots.

I need some more tips guys...



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 16, 2020, 03:22:37 am
I need some more tips guys...
Well, there are plenty more tips in other threads, even some threads dedicated entirely to tips for beginners. You will have to do a bit of searching, though.
Here is one I remember: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7730.0.html

As for answering the questions you posed here:
Enemy grenades are indeed a bummer. There isn't much you can do except keeping some space between all of your agents. Of course that isn't always possible and sometimes enemies will lob grenades even at lone agents. You will have to live with that.

As for smoke grenades, you can improvise. Scout drones and fire extinguishers can also generate a dense smoke screen (but smaller)! Yes, you heard right, fire extinguishers! In fact, I would consider this their main use. The reverse also works: Smoke grenades stop fires. One word of caution about smoke, though: It's no longer the all-powerful tool it was in vanilla and can even do more harm than good in some cases. Some enemies see right through it (thermovision stat), some will fire blindly into the smoke (in that case you were spotted by another enemy, or they are shooting at your last known location). Nothing beats solid cover.

Kevlar? That's indeed subpar in '98.
Helicopters are fine, though. In fact, you won't get much bigger transports any time soon. 6 agents can accomplish a lot, as long as they experienced enough...

Which might be your main problem. If your agents are as short-lived as you say, it's no surprise, that you are having trouble.
Remember, that you don't have to do every mission. Aborting even on turn 1 is no sin, if the odds are stacked heavily against you. The difficulty curve in this mod is not entirely linear and that is intentional.
Conserving the lives of your agents is all-important. That being said, losses are unavoidable sometimes. Dogs are cheaper cannon-fodder and also more likely to survive scouting.

Finally you can always lower the difficulty without starting a new game. Easily done by editing the save file. If you play on Superhuman, you deserve no sympathy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: the nomad on August 16, 2020, 04:16:47 am
Of course that isn't always possible and sometimes enemies will lob grenades even at lone agents. You will have to live with that.

*Cough cough* hybrids *cough cough*.

Indeed, you definitely gotta choose which missions to attempt or not. If you feel it is overwhelming, just go to the mission so you don't get a penalty and abort it. Shoot a couple of times for stat gains if there will be few reaction fires.

The thing that will give you the best boost imo is unlocking better armor. I forgot the exact research order though, but you do have to research history of xenonauts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: tarkalak on August 16, 2020, 09:47:07 am
I need some more tips guys...

Open the Research screen and middle click to open the research tree, you can see the prerequisites of anything there and you can see what every research you have does. You need Armored Vests for armor, the upgrades to the Helicopter are the Dragonfly (8 agents) and the Osprey (16 agents). Those shouldn't be hard to get.

Zombies, werewolves, etc. are hardly scary. Just mow them down with shotguns. If you fail to clear the landing site, abort.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mrvex on August 21, 2020, 06:54:14 pm
Does anyone know the cause of mass equipment loss after a mission ?

I mopped up the CoP meeting, flawless mission and i got this report
(https://i.imgur.com/YNkK2Eo.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on August 21, 2020, 07:17:38 pm
Does anyone know the cause of mass equipment loss after a mission ?

I mopped up the CoP meeting, flawless mission and i got this report
I've never had that happen myself, but my first instinct tells me, that your troops got hit by explosives, while still in the craft. Probably those priests with their rocket launchers. Items on the ground are destructible - I guess your stash is no different. So far, my enemies have been nice enough to only throw incendiary grenades into my craft, which don't destroy items.

Maybe it would be better, if the stash was moved to a safer place inside the craft, usually the back. (Well, technically it IS in the back now. I mean it should be moved away from the door.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: the nomad on August 21, 2020, 07:29:57 pm
I agree with the user above. I always lose equipment in that mission because some culty either shoots a rocket in my craft (generally as a reaction when I step down the craft) or a tosses a grenade. It is probably it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse
Post by: Mrvex on August 21, 2020, 07:36:59 pm
I agree with the user above. I always lose equipment in that mission because some culty either shoots a rocket in my craft (generally as a reaction when I step down the craft) or a tosses a grenade. It is probably it.

Hmmph, yes that might be the cause since one of my dudes who was under Kitsune got hit by 2 rockets but since he was wearing power armour he took no damage. So it seems the same couldnt be said for a dropship floor...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 23, 2020, 07:20:20 pm
Version 1.5 has been released.

- New mission: UAC Weapons Delivery.
- New AI chassis: Large Flying Drone.
- New armor: Assault Suit (graphics by Brain_322).
- New weapons: Incinerator Grenade (graphics by Brain_322), Chemogun Extinguisher Tank, Chempistol Extinguisher Tank.
- New items: Optronic Parts, UAC Weapon Box.
- New units: Cow, Sheep, Pig and Chicken (sprites by Vangrimar1).
- New terrain: Rice Farm (by the C.M.P. Team: Luke83, b__0 & Efrenespartano).
- Overhauled and expanded Forest Marsh terrain (now with actual marsh).
- Bigger Cydonia.
- New Dimension X Base buildings (by Wolverin).
- 1 new event.
- Added visual damage indicator (by Mistar Red).
- Improved Toxigun Flask sprite (by Brain_322).
- Added Seeker Drone, Laser Turret, Cyberweb Roboturret and Cyberweb Centurion paperdolls and examination articles (graphics by Brain_322).
- Added a special X-Com Roboturret/Minigun sprite (by Brain_322).
- Added handobs for Small Shotgun, AKSU-74, AKM and Shogg Hammer.
- Improved pitchfork handob.
- Added descriptions of Hallucinoid attacks.
- Added some new Ufopedia articles.
- Reorganized a part of the tech tree related to Optronics and Alien Electronics, and items which have them.
- Recategorized some rifles.
- Jumpsuit and Grav Module now have color variations (aesthetic only).
- Can't sell survey results.
- Rat Breeding now requires Energetic Blood Plasma instead of Elerium.
- Plasma melee weapons now cost Elerium to produce.
- Moved BlackOps Contact and associated researches a bit further down the tech tree.
- Syndicate, MiB and Hybrid Scientists talk about Zombie Infectors.
- Abomination and Ooze now need Alien Containment.
- Radar Res Processor costs more to produce.
- Increased dropoff on all pistols.
- Skulljack doesn't require Psi Skill.
- Tritanium Harpoon Dart now requires knowledge of Tritanium Blades instead of Tritanium Ammo.
- Mudranger now carries 14 people and is used in some Dimension X missions.
- Added 2 doors to one Port map.
- Deep Ones now have proper screams (by Kato).
- Updated handcuff script (by Kozinsky).
- Updated installation instructions (thanks, Justaround).
- Cleaned up the WP ammo mess (and Colt Commando too).
- Removed Criminal Records from boxes.
- Corrected how Moon missions launch.
- Taser sprites correction (by Alex D).
- Fixed Syndicate Walker floorob.
- Fixed Forest map generation.
- Fixed Alloy Cannon Rounds price.
- Fixed Drone Rockets manufacturing.
- Fixed a crash on surrendering Space Technomads.
- Removed unused corpseGeo references.
- Minor fixes.

This time it took a little longer than usual, but it's not because I was slacking off; there's a lot new content!
I would like to give special thanks to Brain_322, who made sizeable contributions to the mod graphics.

Oh, and before updating, sell all your AKM, AK47, AKSU and Groza clips, or you'll lose them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Mathel on August 23, 2020, 09:35:44 pm
Hooray, new version. I will upgrade tomorrow. :)

Also, the Alien Key Decryption research last paragraph says:

"It is very likely that the aliens will change the encryption method if we attempt to storm it, even if we fail. And a successful assault will tell them how we got access to the underground facility, so this trick won't ever work again."

Does this really mean I can't destroy the second alien embassy? I just destroyed one in Australia and another one popped in Brazil. I even missed out on capturing those green ehtereals.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Mrvex on August 24, 2020, 06:49:10 pm
Version 1.5 has been released.

- Jumpsuit and Grav Module now have color variations (aesthetic only).


I was thinking about it when i saw in UFO pedia that these armours have camo-versions which look way cooler than the stock grey-ish XCOM color.
That being said, what i would like to see instead are colour/camo works for armours you have the longest in the game. Tritanium armour, Cyber armour, Power armour and the Juggernaut.
While Tritanium and Cyber armour looks badass enough. The Power armour could use a paint job so its not this grey-ish thing and the juggernaut armour so its not this ugly yellow plastic thing that looks like a toy.

But i guess such thing isnt important to do when compared to finishing other stuff like factions and their arcs...  ;) But anyway, great work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 24, 2020, 06:58:19 pm
Hooray, new version. I will upgrade tomorrow. :)

Also, the Alien Key Decryption research last paragraph says:

"It is very likely that the aliens will change the encryption method if we attempt to storm it, even if we fail. And a successful assault will tell them how we got access to the underground facility, so this trick won't ever work again."

Does this really mean I can't destroy the second alien embassy? I just destroyed one in Australia and another one popped in Brazil. I even missed out on capturing those green ehtereals.

Not quite- you just need to find a decrypted key from a different source. You get one from completing the Syndicate arc and another from completing the zombie arc. You're out of luck from the fourth one onward, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: HT on August 24, 2020, 11:08:03 pm
I was thinking about it when i saw in UFO pedia that these armours have camo-versions which look way cooler than the stock grey-ish XCOM color.
That being said, what i would like to see instead are colour/camo works for armours you have the longest in the game. Tritanium armour, Cyber armour, Power armour and the Juggernaut.
While Tritanium and Cyber armour looks badass enough. The Power armour could use a paint job so its not this grey-ish thing and the juggernaut armour so its not this ugly yellow plastic thing that looks like a toy.

There was a mod in the old portal that did just that: Give you different recolors for the Personal Armor and the Power Armor, as different variations your soldiers could "wear". Alas, it is lost to time.


Not quite- you just need to find a decrypted key from a different source. You get one from completing the Syndicate arc and another from completing the zombie arc. You're out of luck from the fourth one onward, though.

So, if you take too long to complete the Alien Hybrid arc, you could end up stuck with aliens embassies/special bases that cannot be attacked then? I'm still dealing with the cults right now, so I haven't dealt with Embassies yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Protagonista on August 25, 2020, 12:22:13 am
Well I just lost on 31 december 1999. Might as well upgrade to 1.5. Veteran HonestMan was too much :( It will be Begginer Savescummer from now on.

Here some stuff I learned: Dont sacrifice your agents trying to capture enemies alive.
Dont underestimate the range certain monsters can charge at you, all a monster needs to kill a rookie is just 1 attack usualy.
Wait for sunlight, no need for night missions.
You can abort missions with no penalty, do it if theres too many enemies.
Dont let Pink and Red zombies skeak up on you.
Black Lotus have enemies that WILL sneak up on you.
Look if an enemy is bleading by middle-mouse clickin on then, that means they will pass out in time.
Dart Rifles and its ammo takes forever to manufacture, but knockout granades are instant. Taser cannon sucks.
No need for workshops or engenieers for the first year and a half.
I only needed hazmat suits for a single mission in year 2.
Buy Blackops guns, no need to research other guns really, dont waste time reserching every firearm or meele you find.
Your dogs can kill humans from behind preaty easy.
Smoke granades are too unrealiable.

Is there no defense agains enemies tossing granades at your vehicle? Turn 1 all ememies have full TUs, so I get shot the moment my agents try to leave, but if I wait for turn 2, I can get everyone granaded.

sorry for the terrible english :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 25, 2020, 02:36:51 am
So, if you take too long to complete the Alien Hybrid arc, you could end up stuck with aliens embassies/special bases that cannot be attacked then? I'm still dealing with the cults right now, so I haven't dealt with Embassies yet.

You don't get the alien key (the one you decrypt yourself) from the hybrid arc at all. It's a reward from shooting down a specific type of rare UFO that only appears when an Embassy is present (the Envoy Ship) and then completing the crash recovery. That said, since you get only three decrypted keys in total (the one from the aliens, the Syndicate one, and the zombie one) you won't be able to do anything about embassies past the third one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Finnik on August 25, 2020, 11:37:56 am
Taser cannon sucks.
  :-\
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Mathel on August 25, 2020, 11:58:05 am

Is there no defense agains enemies tossing granades at your vehicle? Turn 1 all ememies have full TUs, so I get shot the moment my agents try to leave, but if I wait for turn 2, I can get everyone granaded.

sorry for the terrible english :)
Three possible defences.

A) Shoot first. If you shoot them dead, they can't shoot back. Obviously, whoever shoots first has to be able to survive the reactions salvo.
B) Drop live smoke grenades on your feet. In theory, the enemies should be unable to target you.
C) Night missions. Humans can't see very well in the dark. But use flares, NOT flashlights. Flashlights show you, flares only activate after being thrown.
   
Note B and C only work against basic humans. Aliens and hybrids can see well in the dark and may be able to see through smoke.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 25, 2020, 03:19:50 pm
Hooray, new version. I will upgrade tomorrow. :)

Also, the Alien Key Decryption research last paragraph says:

"It is very likely that the aliens will change the encryption method if we attempt to storm it, even if we fail. And a successful assault will tell them how we got access to the underground facility, so this trick won't ever work again."

Does this really mean I can't destroy the second alien embassy? I just destroyed one in Australia and another one popped in Brazil. I even missed out on capturing those green ehtereals.

You can only get one alien key the normal way, but you can find more from special sources. I'm planning to rework it soon, but didn't want to deal with this before 1.5.

I was thinking about it when i saw in UFO pedia that these armours have camo-versions which look way cooler than the stock grey-ish XCOM color.
That being said, what i would like to see instead are colour/camo works for armours you have the longest in the game. Tritanium armour, Cyber armour, Power armour and the Juggernaut.
While Tritanium and Cyber armour looks badass enough. The Power armour could use a paint job so its not this grey-ish thing and the juggernaut armour so its not this ugly yellow plastic thing that looks like a toy.

But i guess such thing isnt important to do when compared to finishing other stuff like factions and their arcs...  ;) But anyway, great work.

Honestly I don't know if filling the armour selection list with multiple variants of everything is a practical idea. I did it with the jumpsuit because I already had them coded in and didn't want to remove it.

Is there no defense agains enemies tossing granades at your vehicle? Turn 1 all ememies have full TUs, so I get shot the moment my agents try to leave, but if I wait for turn 2, I can get everyone granaded.

There is no fail-safe solution. It's a challenge every time. Mathel's suggestions are a good start.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 26, 2020, 01:30:22 am
No need for workshops or engenieers for the first year and a half.
...
Smoke granades are too unrealiable.

No wonder you were struggling. You need workshops to make a lot of important stuff even before the aliens show up, and if you went that long without things like heavy tactical suits and healing gel then I can only assume you lasted so long because of sheer luck.

And smoke grenades are a lifesaver. They're unreliable only if you're using them wrong.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: tarkalak on August 26, 2020, 11:51:51 am
Well I just lost on 31 december 1999. Might as well upgrade to 1.5. Veteran HonestMan was too much :( It will be Begginer Savescummer from now on.

Here some stuff I learned: Dont sacrifice your agents trying to capture enemies alive.
Dont underestimate the range certain monsters can charge at you, all a monster needs to kill a rookie is just 1 attack usualy.
Yep.
Quote
Wait for sunlight, no need for night missions.
That applies for monsters and aliens. Against the human cults you are usually better off at night.
Quote
You can abort missions with no penalty, do it if theres too many enemies.
Dont let Pink and Red zombies skeak up on you.
Yep.
Quote
Black Lotus have enemies that WILL sneak up on you.
Use dogs for the motion detector if there is lots of cover (HQ) or scout tanks in the open. Scout tanks have 5 anticamo, which means that they see them 9 tiles away, rather than 4 for everyone else. Also at night, they are not harder to see, so no reason not to go at night to impede the rest of their team.
Quote
Look if an enemy is bleading by middle-mouse clickin on then, that means they will pass out in time.
Yep. Probably 5 turns later after shooting half your team and spotting for all the enemies. Finish him.
Quote
Dart Rifles and its ammo takes forever to manufacture, but knockout granades are instant. Taser cannon sucks.
Shhh, Solarius might make the grenades take longer to manufacture.
Taser cannon isn't bad, just unwieldy, I mostly used it on the Black Lotus Avatar, after having someone bring it from the transport.
Quote
No need for workshops or engenieers for the first year and a half.
Nope. You need them for the healing gel, knockout granades, etc.
Quote
I only needed hazmat suits for a single mission in year 2.
Buy Blackops guns, no need to research other guns really, dont waste time reserching every firearm or meele you find.
I disagree. Black ops stuff is either unique and good, or way too expensive replica of something that you already can buy. FN-FAL and G-11 are better that the black ops rifle. Also research of guns is fast and gives you points.
Quote
Your dogs can kill humans from behind preaty easy.
Yep.
Quote
Smoke granades are too unrealiable.
Depends. There are two things to take into account:
1. Some enemies can see through smoke with thermal vision. That is mostly aliens.
2. When you hit, but not kill, someone, he spots your agent. If he is a spotter, every sniper on the enemy team will see you and return fire.
Quote
Is there no defense agains enemies tossing granades at your vehicle? Turn 1 all ememies have full TUs, so I get shot the moment my agents try to leave, but if I wait for turn 2, I can get everyone granaded.
Dispersal, smoke, night combat. I.e. what Mathal said. There won't be any challenge if they didn't have grenades.
Quote
sorry for the terrible english :)

Heh, I could only answer in kind. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Mrvex on August 26, 2020, 02:31:34 pm
Now i know what "Visual damage indicator" means and good lord it is  a feature i never knew i wanted.

Now i know if i am damaging the target or not... or if my troops will get wounds when the ayy turn ends.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: The_Shaikan on August 26, 2020, 05:45:39 pm
So I have been enjoying a long campaign so far in 1.5 but I feel like I found a recursive tech dependency and wanted to ask if I am misunderstanding something.
The invasion of 99 is well underway and I am holding on but I am now stuck fighting tiny ships and hiding from anything above small because I can't research further.

Optronics requires Alien Optical Processor
Alien Optical Processor depends on UFO Navigation, Alien Electronics and Alien Multitool
UFO Navigation depends on Alien Power Systems and Optronics.

So in order to progress in the tech tree, I need to research things I need to have already researched in order to research them.  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Mrvex on August 27, 2020, 09:53:32 am
So I have been enjoying a long campaign so far in 1.5 but I feel like I found a recursive tech dependency and wanted to ask if I am misunderstanding something.
The invasion of 99 is well underway and I am holding on but I am now stuck fighting tiny ships and hiding from anything above small because I can't research further.

Optronics requires Alien Optical Processor
Alien Optical Processor depends on UFO Navigation, Alien Electronics and Alien Multitool
UFO Navigation depends on Alien Power Systems and Optronics.

So in order to progress in the tech tree, I need to research things I need to have already researched in order to research them.  :o

Most tech comes from RNG rullete from engineer and commanders/leader integoriation. Pretty much majority of the best gear comes from them so keep capturing commanders and engineers and make them talk. Make sure to expend trashy RNG reward like ship types with navigators first before wasting engineers and commanders because they can roll for it too and its quite enraging that you got "Small scout" info when you could have rolled for Anti-matter contaiment...

So get a mind probe to one of your guys and check who is who because the most common alien (Sectoid) is identical to each other before you capture them.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2020, 11:53:11 am
Good catch on the circular dependency thing. I really should have been more careful. Fix is on the way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: tarkalak on August 27, 2020, 02:19:04 pm
Now i know what "Visual damage indicator" means and good lord it is  a feature i never knew i wanted.

Now i know if i am damaging the target or not... or if my troops will get wounds when the ayy turn ends.

And the natural question, can it be disabled?
I didn't see an option in the Options menu, but I do miss stuff that is under my nose all the time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2020, 02:24:46 pm
And the natural question, can it be disabled?
I didn't see an option in the Options menu, but I do miss stuff that is under my nose all the time.

You can just delete HitFX-basic.rul to disable the indicator.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Mathel on August 27, 2020, 03:06:44 pm
About the optronics...

I researched them, as I upgraded a running campaign, so I already had the dependancies.
But how do I get them? I need a unit for every power suit now, and they do not seem to drop from UFOs.

Edit: Sorry, found it. Manufacture->Components->Alien Navigation disassembly gives 7 Optronic parts from 1 navigation
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: xcomfan on August 27, 2020, 09:56:40 pm
Version 1.5 has been released.

- 1.5:
[...]
- Added handobs for Small Shotgun, AKSU-74, AKM and Shogg Hammer.

Thank God! Finally that startin small shotgun...Hurra!

Oh, and before updating, sell all your AKM, AK47, AKSU and Groza clips, or you'll lose them.
..why?  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: tarkalak on August 28, 2020, 02:23:32 am
You can just delete HitFX-basic.rul to disable the indicator.

Would it make sense to make it a submod? Like Dark Geoscape and Cyrillic names?

I am divided on whether I prefer the information or seeing the bullet animation better. A nice feature otherwise.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Thunderwing280 on August 28, 2020, 03:07:29 am
Quick question is there a limit for how many alien embassies can be built, there are about 4 in my playthrough.

Also i cannot find zombie infectors, even in outbreak missions none spawn where do I find them?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 28, 2020, 03:03:02 pm
..why?  :o

Because they no longer exist.

Would it make sense to make it a submod? Like Dark Geoscape and Cyrillic names?

It would, but I didn't expect this to be a problem. Also, quite easy to remove.

I am divided on whether I prefer the information or seeing the bullet animation better. A nice feature otherwise.

I'd say it is okay, since Ctrl+H exists anyway (and carries more info), and I know you use it ;)

Quick question is there a limit for how many alien embassies can be built, there are about 4 in my playthrough.

Yes, as many as there are countries... :)

Also i cannot find zombie infectors, even in outbreak missions none spawn where do I find them?

They appear on larger zombie missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: stn on August 29, 2020, 07:51:15 pm
Is it possible to make a base defense mission much earlier than an alien invasion? For example, in the first or second year, let the cult members attack the base with a pistol and knives, or several animals or zombies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on August 30, 2020, 03:31:45 pm
Is it possible to make a base defense mission much earlier than an alien invasion? For example, in the first or second year, let the cult members attack the base with a pistol and knives, or several animals or zombies.

XCOM in the mod and its bases are supposed to be super classified, super hidden and such. There is no logic that some cult gets the info about of the basically the most secret thing that UN has. This secrecy can be reasonably broken by Aliens, or maybe MiB, with a bit of a stretch maybe even Osiron.

Even if so, why would cults attack it with knives and pistols? How would some animals, or zombies get in?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: krautbernd on August 30, 2020, 06:59:12 pm
How would some animals, or zombies get in?
Same way things get out and contaminate the environment (see staff input) - through the sewers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 30, 2020, 07:46:56 pm
Just The Dude said it: early cults have no means to take on X-Com directly. One could argue otherwise, but I had to make some assumptions about it.
Still, this might change in the future, because I like base defences (in moderation). Maybe UAC will be more proactive here.

And anyway, 1.5.1 has been released!
- New terrains: Muddy Rocks, Arboreal Rocks, Chilly Rocks, Sandy Rocks, Sandy Rocks Alternative, Snowy Rocks, Tropical Rocks, Mountainous Rocks, Tundra Plains, Arboreal Plains, Muddy Plains, Chilly Plains, Sandy Plains, Sandy Plains Alternative, Tropical Plains, Wasteland (by Bullet Designer).
- Expanded Urban Low terrain.
- New BlackOps SMG bigob (by Alex D).
- Improved Minimi bigob (by Alex D).
- Better Uzi handob (by Brain_322).
- Some improvements to the globe.
- Promotion I can now be unlocked with a living creature, not just a corpse.
- Webwear is now Concealable.
- Toned down grenades in hybrid clinics.
- Fixed circular dependency between Optronics, UFO Navigation and Alien Optical Processor.
- Minor fixes.

I wasn't planning on such a quick update, but that circular dependency was a big problem and I didn't want to leave it unattended. It's a good thing though, because I already added Bullet Designer's terrains from the C.M.P. community, which will certainly spike things up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: tarkalak on August 31, 2020, 01:09:04 am
Is it possible to make a base defense mission much earlier than an alien invasion? For example, in the first or second year, let the cult members attack the base with a pistol and knives, or several animals or zombies.

There IS, in fact, a human faction, that will come out and attack your base if you piss them off before the aliens.

I would love to see a runaway Black Lotus assassin base defense though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Mrvex on August 31, 2020, 09:29:46 am
Just The Dude said it: early cults have no means to take on X-Com directly. One could argue otherwise, but I had to make some assumptions about it.
Still, this might change in the future, because I like base defences (in moderation). Maybe UAC will be more proactive here.



Base defences could have variations with different possible factions, i have doubts non-Aliens without dropships could be able to land in XCOM's base quickly enough and it would make sense that Cults would try land attack and XCOM would have to defend the surface entrance.  So XCOM would start in the elevator and have access to the surface fortifications so XCOM would have cover and high ground advantage against masses of cultists.

Or if there is like a guided swarm of monsters being lured by Cultists that XCOM decided to ambush them with full might of the base personal in a forrest before they even get close to the entrance.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: stn on August 31, 2020, 10:30:44 am
XCOM in the mod and its bases are supposed to be super classified, super hidden and such. There is no logic that some cult gets the info about of the basically the most secret thing that UN has. This secrecy can be reasonably broken by Aliens, or maybe MiB, with a bit of a stretch maybe even Osiron.

Even if so, why would cults attack it with knives and pistols? How would some animals, or zombies get in?

Knives and pistols - for light defense. The player has not yet prepared for a serious defense, let it be fun. He is not yet ready for serious men with heavy armor and guns. No masses of cultists - only 5-10 lightly armed men. Diversity. It might just be a gang of marauders. They walked through the woods and came across.)

Animals. They just broke the gate. The engineer who built the first base had no experience. And he had a lack of funding. He built a large barn + barbed wire and a watchtower.

Mutants. They broke the cage and ran out.))
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2020, 10:33:48 am
Base defences could have variations with different possible factions, i have doubts non-Aliens without dropships could be able to land in XCOM's base quickly enough and it would make sense that Cults would try land attack and XCOM would have to defend the surface entrance.  So XCOM would start in the elevator and have access to the surface fortifications so XCOM would have cover and high ground advantage against masses of cultists.

Or if there is like a guided swarm of monsters being lured by Cultists that XCOM decided to ambush them with full might of the base personal in a forrest before they even get close to the entrance.

Yeah sure, let's make a new game while we're at it.

All that you've described are features I thought of and requested like 5 years ago... Which doesn't change anything. (Now we're closer to something like this, but it's still not possible.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on August 31, 2020, 09:45:38 pm
Knives and pistols - for light defense. The player has not yet prepared for a serious defense, let it be fun. He is not yet ready for serious men with heavy armor and guns. No masses of cultists - only 5-10 lightly armed men. Diversity. It might just be a gang of marauders. They walked through the woods and came across.)

Animals. They just broke the gate. The engineer who built the first base had no experience. And he had a lack of funding. He built a large barn + barbed wire and a watchtower.

Mutants. They broke the cage and ran out.))

This makes gameplay sense, but not "story" sense. Why would they attack with only knives and pistols when they somehow got the info about X-Com base? Leader of one just said: "Hey! Lets make it fair for them, am I right, guys?".

1998 and 1999 aren't some post-apocaliptic times even in X-COM world, its still very much civilised, why would there be some roaming gangs of maruders walking trough remote areas just to "stumble across" X-COM base? Base that is super secret, not Area-51 style, with wire fence and signs that "you are entering territory of X-COM, or things like that".

How could animals just "broke the gate" to underground super secret paramilitary base backed by the UN?

How could mutants just "broke the cage" when you might not even have one during the event? What stops this "base attack" happening to a base where there isn't even a cell building present?

Overall, you all have literall Mod creator posting things above about those concepts and he is the one to decide what fits the narrative and what doesn't. At best you could point out inconsistencies, like I probably would in a case where mod would contain such early raids on X-COM bases that are so super secret, that the red tape required to buy flashlight winds its price from dollar, or two to two hundred.

I guess nothing stops you from trying to make a mod that adds it, probably.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: tarkalak on August 31, 2020, 11:19:44 pm
This makes gameplay sense, but not "story" sense. Why would they attack with only knives and pistols when they somehow got the info about X-Com base? Leader of one just said: "Hey! Lets make it fair for them, am I right, guys?".

1998 and 1999 aren't some post-apocaliptic times even in X-COM world, its still very much civilised, why would there be some roaming gangs of maruders walking trough remote areas just to "stumble across" X-COM base? Base that is super secret, not Area-51 style, with wire fence and signs that "you are entering territory of X-COM, or things like that".

How could animals just "broke the gate" to underground super secret paramilitary base backed by the UN?

How could mutants just "broke the cage" when you might not even have one during the event? What stops this "base attack" happening to a base where there isn't even a cell building present?

Overall, you all have literall Mod creator posting things above about those concepts and he is the one to decide what fits the narrative and what doesn't. At best you could point out inconsistencies, like I probably would in a case where mod would contain such early raids on X-COM bases that are so super secret, that the red tape required to buy flashlight winds its price from dollar, or two to two hundred.

I guess nothing stops you from trying to make a mod that adds it, probably.

Another interesting question is:
Why does X-Com get a super secret base at the start of this mod?

The UN has very little faith in X-Com, gives it a small budget, almost no weapons and everyone expects it to fail miserably. X-Com files should start in some old unconditioned administrative building and get the super secret base later.

Yes, I am fully aware that it is not possible to do the above due to the engine and etc. It is just random musings.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 31, 2020, 11:58:15 pm
There IS, in fact, a human faction, that will come out and attack your base if you piss them off before the aliens.

I would love to see a runaway Black Lotus assassin base defense though.

That brings back some unpleasant memories. Especially since my A-team was out at the time and the Syndies decided to bring in a few dozen rocket launchers and Minotaurs just for the occasion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on September 01, 2020, 12:16:38 am
Every secret agency gets a secret base. The agency wouldn't be secret if it didn't had a secret base and even some old unconditioned administrative building is a secret base if nobody knows what happens there, there is a lot cover around it and such. It just so happens that it is an underground facility. Not the biggest one to be honest. Hangar is something about the size to fit an Osprey (which is one of the biggest "ships" in terms of a lenght in any direction that X-COM can get, probably), while rest of the facillities aren't too big either.

The best thing we have now is to think around those limitations by doing something fun (atleast for me), which is "plotting the story".

Its not like UN has that little faith in X-COM, even from the start. At the point where we take command over the organisation and forward, Council has basically only two plans for dealing with alien threat. One is X-COM and other MiB. Both with very different approach. X-COM had many predecessors who showed some progress, like Xenonauts and "Kira-kuy" (something like that with the name, I didn't recently play the mod).
All they require are proofs and to gain those proofs, X-COM had to have good enough conditions to start. One, fairly small underground base, few engineers and scientists aren't much, really. Every country in UN (and basically every country in the world, since X-COM can get base in every part of the world which might not be "cannonicaly" up to player's choice, but a predefined, while player gets to choose, or the player's character, the "Commander" might himself look forward to create such organisations and intentionally influence and "nudge" the things to create first base in a place he choosed) could realistically have such underground base, X-COM don't get much from the start, really.

Lack of weaponry on the start is already explained with cross-border tentions that not many goverments would like forgein agents bringing up (depending on each country politics) strictly non-civilian weaponry. Trough time, evidence gathered and such, the Council agrees to give X-COM bigger freedom, with explosives and machinegun licenses.
Seems reasonable. How one could think that a president/dictator/whatever of some country would react to being forced to allow several armed to the teeth agents to operate on his territory, killing and arresting "suspects" as they please? Then basically kidnapping those arrested and transporting them to the other part of the world of course.

I wouldn't really call the budget that small, since X-COM in the beginning is very small itself, two field agents, bunch of scientists and engineers, not much really.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: the nomad on September 01, 2020, 01:30:20 am
That brings back some unpleasant memories. Especially since my A-team was out at the time and the Syndies decided to bring in a few dozen rocket launchers and Minotaurs just for the occasion.

I just lost three of my elite soldiers to those rockets damn lol.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 01, 2020, 10:50:55 am
This makes gameplay sense, but not "story" sense. Why would they attack with only knives and pistols when they somehow got the info about X-Com base? Leader of one just said: "Hey! Lets make it fair for them, am I right, guys?".

1998 and 1999 aren't some post-apocaliptic times even in X-COM world, its still very much civilised, why would there be some roaming gangs of maruders walking trough remote areas just to "stumble across" X-COM base? Base that is super secret, not Area-51 style, with wire fence and signs that "you are entering territory of X-COM, or things like that".

How could animals just "broke the gate" to underground super secret paramilitary base backed by the UN?

All these are valid arguments. However, for the sake, of accuracy, this part is not exactly true:

How could mutants just "broke the cage" when you might not even have one during the event? What stops this "base attack" happening to a base where there isn't even a cell building present?

For some time now, you can make a mission script which checks for a presence of an item or facility in the base - therefore only fire a "Chryssalid overrun your base!" mission if you actually have a captive Chryssalid. However, this is an imprecise tool: missions are generated at the start of month, so for example if you get rid of the Chryssalid on the 8th of March, the mission may still launch on the 23rd of March, because that's when it was determined to happen at the beginning of March. Therefore, it would be wonky and I wouldn't want to use it.

Another interesting question is:
Why does X-Com get a super secret base at the start of this mod?

The UN has very little faith in X-Com, gives it a small budget, almost no weapons and everyone expects it to fail miserably. X-Com files should start in some old unconditioned administrative building and get the super secret base later.

Yes, I am fully aware that it is not possible to do the above due to the engine and etc. It is just random musings.

It's a limitation really. In my ideal world, X-Com would start with a small military surface installation - literally several buildings - and then develop slowly towards the underground base. For now, not possible, at least not the way I want, so I guess the Council has many unused vaults to give to whomever needs a crib. Also, what Just The Dude said - it's not that big.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5: Shot in The Dark
Post by: stn on September 01, 2020, 11:25:30 am
Why would they attack with only knives and pistols when they somehow got the info about X-Com base?
No one has received information about the X-Com base. A random group accidentally discovered the object.
Why  "knives and pistols"? I already wrote about this. I will not repeat.
Quote
How could animals just "broke the gate" to underground super secret paramilitary base backed by the UN?
Lol. I already wrote about this.
Quote
Overall, you all have literall Mod creator posting things above about those concepts and he is the one to decide what fits the narrative and what doesn't.
I know. Do not worry about that. :)

Quote
I guess nothing stops you from trying to make a mod that adds it, probably.
Don't worry about that either. :lol: Restless man. )
There are people who do this. They do submods and I use that. But I will not discuss this here.
I expressed the idea, it turned out to be bad, which means it will not be accepted. No problems. I don't discuss it anymore.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: ShavedDave on September 02, 2020, 09:33:59 am
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and have almost got through my first play-through of this amazing mod. Sadly I am completely stuck - I have researched the lunar control room and built it, I then manufactured the satellite launch but now I cannot progress. According to the wiki the lunar control room should have unlocked the service 'sat lab' but I don't appear to have this tech nor the ability to research it. I can't progress any satellite/ moon related tech so I am at a complete dead end.

I have attached my save game so you can see where I am at. Any help would be massively appreciated as I am so close to the end and would like to finish this mod without having to start afresh if possible  ;).

Cheers,
Dave
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: BlackStaff on September 02, 2020, 10:32:38 am
Maybe when installing the latest version some things will be triggered...  8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: ShavedDave on September 02, 2020, 10:55:13 am
oh lordy, you weren't wrong!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on September 02, 2020, 12:03:25 pm
It's a limitation really. In my ideal world, X-Com would start with a small military surface installation - literally several buildings - and then develop slowly towards the underground base. For now, not possible, at least not the way I want, so I guess the Council has many unused vaults to give to whomever needs a crib. Also, what Just The Dude said - it's not that big.

Or the basement of an old crumbling factory. The supply teams will be disguised as scrapping company.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on September 02, 2020, 12:48:46 pm
Why says that it isn't a basement of some old crumbling factory?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2020, 12:58:19 pm
I think the most practical solution is a small, unassuming military installation. Nothing that would attract attention, more like a side branch of some logistics chain or a third rate weapon storage site. There are thousands of such places, they blend in well with the neighbourhood and they don't look weird when actually guarded.

I've seen crumbling factories and they're just not a good place to hide anything, as they're teeming with all sorts of people, like metal thieves, souvenir collectors, homeless, drunkards, architecture students or adventurous teenagers. Not a good place to hide anything secret.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Jimboman on September 02, 2020, 03:06:35 pm
In the Gerry Anderson TV series called 'UFO' the organisation of S.H.A.D.O. (Supreme Headquarters Alien Defence Organisation), which was similar to XCOM in their purpose, was based underneath a film studio.

http://ufoseries.com/

(Edited to clear-up a confusing statement, and to add the link)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Jimboman on September 03, 2020, 03:18:49 pm
Just another thought.  I live near a university and I've always thought it would be an ideal place for a 'secret base' of a sort.  After all, they have people coming and going at all hours, it has the research labs and the large library area as well.  It wouldn't be great for a 'military' organisation obviously, but the initial HQ base would work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 05, 2020, 01:09:15 pm
How would supersonic fighters be deployed unnoticed, though? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Jimboman on September 05, 2020, 09:00:32 pm
How would supersonic fighters be deployed unnoticed, though? :)

Like I said, a uni wouldn't be any good for the military aspect, but maybe as research base.  Of course the underground portion would have to be built in secret, but like the S.H.I.E.L.D BASE in 'Avengers Assemble' it could have a long tunnel for road vehicles to enter and leave.  Once X-COM start using helicopters and craft like the Osprey things would get a little more complicated.  That's why my second base was built in Nevada and called 'Area 51'!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: unarmed drifter on September 08, 2020, 06:21:53 pm
what's up with the elusive informer in the shady bar? i've never met him (4 visits thus far) and now even the dreaded men in black want to have some cold beers...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 08, 2020, 09:24:33 pm
Well, better luck next time!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on September 08, 2020, 10:38:27 pm
Wait, the informer actually exists?
After god knows how many battles against MiB and sometimes Westmen and never ever meeting the informant, I have come to the conclusion, that he is just used as bait to ambush X-Com agents.
Am I wrong?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: the nomad on September 09, 2020, 02:48:57 am
Wait, the informer actually exists?
After god knows how many battles against MiB and sometimes Westmen and never ever meeting the informant, I have come to the conclusion, that he is just used as bait to ambush X-Com agents.
Am I wrong?

You can indeed find him, but it won't matter because there is a high chance he will be shot to pieces in the first turn :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: krautbernd on September 09, 2020, 12:37:24 pm
Just hide him in a closet and toss incendiary grenades like a bunch of madmen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Protagonista on September 10, 2020, 06:56:31 am
Hey everyone, Im dont know if this is a bug or Im missing something, but it appears that the Data Disc on the Syndicate Data Seizure mission spawned under a computer in the last floor. Am I suppose to interact with it some way? Isnt just a object in the ground?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Protagonista on September 10, 2020, 07:07:15 am
Yes! I manage to destroy the computer without destroing the disc! boy did it took a while...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on September 10, 2020, 09:47:57 am
You could just kill everyone. That works too. I swept the outside clean before going inside and never even got to the last floor before the mission finished.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2020, 10:37:59 am
Both methods work. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 10, 2020, 03:18:49 pm
Where do you find ultimate secret files? I've only found regular secret files.

Also I just made a bunch of tac neural impants but they dissapeared
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: the nomad on September 10, 2020, 05:25:35 pm
Do they not show up in stores too? Because if I remember correctly it requires sick bay to install it to agents, maybe you have not built it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2020, 05:48:33 pm
I think they don't appear anywhere as of now. No location I ever made is secret enough.
Also it's hard to think of what could be in these files - everything is either not secret enough or completely gamebreaking...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 11, 2020, 08:45:28 pm
Do they not show up in stores too? Because if I remember correctly it requires sick bay to install it to agents, maybe you have not built it.
I produced them in a base with a sick bay but when I checked the stores they weren't there to transfer after I produced about 20 or so I made 1 to check and sure enough it didn't show up
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on September 13, 2020, 11:07:05 am
I think they don't appear anywhere as of now. No location I ever made is secret enough.
Also it's hard to think of what could be in these files - everything is either not secret enough or completely gamebreaking...

On a random civilian during a Madman attack. That is pretty secret.

Or have a 'Secret Documents Safe' container that you open like the Ammo boxes and have a random document with low chance of being some super-duper secret document.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 23, 2020, 11:46:10 pm
So the Cyberweb battleship spawned in for me and I intercepted it, however I apparently destroyed it, will it come back or will it never spawn again?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 24, 2020, 12:38:13 pm
Oh yeah, it will be back... Again and again :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 24, 2020, 07:14:28 pm
Oh yeah, it will be back... Again and again :D
So to actually do the mission do I need to let it land or just try to shoot it down without destroying it?

EDIT: So the mission spawned in but why do I have to take a mudranger?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Mrvex on September 25, 2020, 01:29:41 pm


EDIT: So the mission spawned in but why do I have to take a mudranger?

I think you need a space capable craft for it. Mudranger apparently can do it but you are better off with Kitsune since it has massive range and can still carry tanks you will need.

And i mean, you really need them in this mission unless you have high-end armour (Power armour and up). I had sectopods (2x, because Ayys failed to destroy my base twice so i had something to work with). This might be the mission so far in the game with largest body count ever. If i remember correctly, it was either 76 or 96 enemies. On open plain, with almost no cover aside from few rocks, dunes and buildings but that is a long dash while you are in sight of 20-40 enemies at once. So i did well by using sectopods as cover for my troops but this mission took like a hour or two and i had to sped up the projectiles so i wont die of old age as 20-40 enemies will shoot their lasers at long range. Make sure to arm all of your troops with turbolaser weapons due to infinite ammo and the fact that they can incernate enemies so the Cyberwebs technolads wont have 2 lifes.




Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Mathel on September 25, 2020, 02:11:58 pm
I think you need a space capable craft for it. Mudranger apparently can do it but you are better off with Kitsune since it has massive range and can still carry tanks you will need.

And i mean, you really need them in this mission unless you have high-end armour (Power armour and up). I had sectopods (2x, because Ayys failed to destroy my base twice so i had something to work with). This might be the mission so far in the game with largest body count ever. If i remember correctly, it was either 76 or 96 enemies. On open plain, with almost no cover aside from few rocks, dunes and buildings but that is a long dash while you are in sight of 20-40 enemies at once. So i did well by using sectopods as cover for my troops but this mission took like a hour or two and i had to sped up the projectiles so i wont die of old age as 20-40 enemies will shoot their lasers at long range. Make sure to arm all of your troops with turbolaser weapons due to infinite ammo and the fact that they can incernate enemies so the Cyberwebs technolads wont have 2 lifes.
Another good thing is to use MC on nearby Technolads and have them blow up themselves or other Technolads. Do this especialy if you do not have flight capable armors (Preferably Flying suits), or Juggernauts.
They love to throw their HE at you if they get the chance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 25, 2020, 09:36:53 pm
You misunderstand, on the Cyberweb Battleship mision I HAD to take a mudranger, even though I used an Avenger to get there, It's on the mission brief, I was wondering why Solaris decided to make it that way
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2020, 11:37:16 pm
I thought people would like not having to start on a bloody open field?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Mrvex on September 26, 2020, 11:52:13 am
You misunderstand, on the Cyberweb Battleship mision I HAD to take a mudranger, even though I used an Avenger to get there, It's on the mission brief, I was wondering why Solaris decided to make it that way

Before this change, you started in the crosshairs of 20-40 enemies the moment the game started, now you atleast have some cover so your tanks can roll out first to absorb reaction fire before your infantry will step out.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 26, 2020, 12:28:56 pm
I thought people would like not having to start on a bloody open field?
Okay but why not just the player start with their selected landing craft? Too op?

To be fair though at least with my progress in the game the mission was a breeze, power armor and stormtrooper armor plus heavy plasma and fusion bomb launchers does that
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2020, 01:14:42 pm
Okay but why not just the player start with their selected landing craft? Too op?

How the hell would you move A GODDAMN AVENGER through those pink cave tunnels???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 26, 2020, 01:16:54 pm
How the hell would you move A GODDAMN AVENGER through those pink cave tunnels???
Fair point I forgot about the tunnels
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2020, 02:33:51 pm
Yeah, the Mudranger, the base, etc. had to be dragged to the other side in parts. All of it.

(And you'd think the agents have it rough...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 26, 2020, 07:41:48 pm
Yeah, the Mudranger, the base, etc. had to be dragged to the other side in parts. All of it.
I always wondered why when you go defend the outpost it's abandoned, I thought at least some people would be stranded or something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2020, 08:44:21 pm
I always wondered why when you go defend the outpost it's abandoned, I thought at least some people would be stranded or something.

Because I never felt like making the crew... :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Alexofthatilk on September 27, 2020, 01:02:50 am
i am some way into the game and cannot seem to make, or find Ion Beam Acceleration, got one off a cyberweb base and researched it, and now i need two for the ironfist, but cant seem to make them (i have plastics and zrbite, just no option) and the USOs i encounter don't seem to have any, just aqua plastics and zrbite canisters. am i missing something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Hadriex on September 27, 2020, 08:39:41 am
Oh thank goodness on the cyberweb mission. I am so glad to hear there's some cover now.

I've been getting a friend to play this and it really makes me want to play it again right now. I've been messing with a bunch of other mods, and much as I love stuff like the Long War, there's really nothing that offers as much as classic Xcom, especially this one. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on September 27, 2020, 06:34:30 pm
So to actually do the mission do I need to let it land or just try to shoot it down without destroying it?

EDIT: So the mission spawned in but why do I have to take a mudranger?

IIRC Solarious wanted to make it slightly less useless. Don't worry, one will be provided for you to deploy in regardless of what you actually use to get your troops to the site.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Foxhound634 on September 27, 2020, 07:22:53 pm
Hi, i want to talk about undercover missions. Is it just me or are they not worth pursuing at all? I noticed the following.

1) Not being able to retreat from them adds a huge risk, especially early in the game when you only have space for 2 agents in the transport vehicle.

1a) This risk is even bigger when it's the first time you go on a specific type of undercover mission, since you don't know what to expect.

2) The penalty for not going on those missions is very low, and i don't recall the rewards being anything impressive (early game at least, dunno about later on)

So with these things combined, undercover missions just seem like too big a hassle to bother with. Has anyone else noticed this, or am i missing something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on September 27, 2020, 10:04:49 pm
Hi, i want to talk about undercover missions. Is it just me or are they not worth pursuing at all? I noticed the following.

1) Not being able to retreat from them adds a huge risk, especially early in the game when you only have space for 2 agents in the transport vehicle.

1a) This risk is even bigger when it's the first time you go on a specific type of undercover mission, since you don't know what to expect.

2) The penalty for not going on those missions is very low, and i don't recall the rewards being anything impressive (early game at least, dunno about later on)

So with these things combined, undercover missions just seem like too big a hassle to bother with. Has anyone else noticed this, or am i missing something?

1) Research Logistics. It takes 10 days, no chance you will get undercover missions before having 4 agents to send.

1a) Applies to a lot of missions in game. Actually there are a few missions that might surprise you with a total teamkill early on.

2) They are easy and give you money. I got a few million from one once. Also one of the types is needed for one of the factions at least.

It is your preference. I find them fun and a needed break from the large missions you get near to defeating the early cults. You can ignore them or send a bunch of expendables to roll the die.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on September 28, 2020, 05:00:50 am
Beach missions are worth the danger, most of the time.
They are the earliest opportunity to capture a member of the Osiron faction and unlock further missions against them.
Enemies have some nice weapons for the early game.
And most importantly the 3 crates you find in every mission usually contain some alien tech. Most of the stuff in there is either useful or valuable.

Industrial and ski resort missions on the other hand indeed give you nothing of great value.

But there are also other, more rare, undercover missions, which you don't unlock through research topics. There's a 'concerned citizens' mission for example, that will give you quite a bit more negative points, if ignored, but is also significantly easier.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: the nomad on September 28, 2020, 02:49:16 pm
Indeed, most profitable undercover mission is Osiron beach missions. You can make huge leaps in research and equipment with the loots.

The worst mission is ski resort in my opinion, the one where you stand in a house with windows like every two squares. One move, don't move, or fire, and you are dead. No safe place, wherever you hide there is at least one shot from one of the windows. Never been able to do that one without at least 4 losses, so I just skip them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Jimboman on September 28, 2020, 04:09:52 pm
The worst mission is ski resort in my opinion, the one where you stand in a house with windows like every two squares. One move, don't move, or fire, and you are dead. No safe place, wherever you hide there is at least one shot from one of the windows. Never been able to do that one without at least 4 losses, so I just skip them.

Before the Hobbes debacle meant Solaris had to remove Hobbes' terrains the ski-resort mission took place in a village and was just like any other town mission, except for only using sport rifles.  I guess he hasn't had time to redo it properly yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on September 28, 2020, 04:20:49 pm
I gotta say though, the ski resort mission has become significantly easier, ever since the map has been replaced. Now it's not a resort town anymore but just a a single house (where you spawn) in the middle of a snowy desert. As long as the house spawns at the edge of the map (every single time for me so far) your agents can just take cover behind the house and snipe away at the enemies with sports rifles. All the enemies have zero cover.


Another subject:
Is anyone else having trouble finding Zombie Infectors? If I'm not mistaken, those are the gateway to receiving MAGMA lab missions, which I am very antsy to get into. I want those zombie trooper implants!
In the first campaign, that I started quite a while ago, I encountered many infectors in a variety of missions and I was fighting zombie troopers already in mid '98. But in my second campaign and now in my third I'm having no luck. Now in December '98 I haven't found a single one, yet. I haven't skipped any zombie missions, but all I encounter are normal zombies, fat zombies and boomers and a Vampire Knight once. I'm not receiving any catacomb missions either, which always used to contain a couple of infectors.
Did something change or am I just unlucky?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2020, 04:27:31 pm
Actually, I didn't change this mission in any way, besides adding the starting house at some point. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on September 28, 2020, 04:42:01 pm
Actually, I didn't change this mission in any way, besides adding the starting house at some point. :)

I had the same experience with it too. Before, with the van, I had to fight in a map with several buildings, fences, etc. After the house was introduced, I get a tundra map, where my house is the only building. I think that I made only one Sport mission after the house was introduced so it might have just been bad RNG in the map creation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: the nomad on September 28, 2020, 05:21:48 pm

Is anyone else having trouble finding Zombie Infectors? If I'm not mistaken, those are the gateway to receiving MAGMA lab missions, which I am very antsy to get into. I want those zombie trooper implants!
In the first campaign, that I started quite a while ago, I encountered many infectors in a variety of missions and I was fighting zombie troopers already in mid '98. But in my second campaign and now in my third I'm having no luck. Now in December '98 I haven't found a single one, yet. I haven't skipped any zombie missions, but all I encounter are normal zombies, fat zombies and boomers and a Vampire Knight once. I'm not receiving any catacomb missions either, which always used to contain a couple of infectors.
Did something change or am I just unlucky?

It is probably just bad luck. While I never had any trouble particulary about zombie infectors, in one replay the dagon outpost did not spawn for a year and a half (only safehouses). Thanks to that I couldn't take any Chosen or Priest alive and research Dagon Operations, which means I had a plane that sucked even when the invasion started (you can only go so far with Dragonfly). Same stuff.

I gotta say though, the ski resort mission has become significantly easier, ever since the map has been replaced. Now it's not a resort town anymore but just a a single house (where you spawn) in the middle of a snowy desert. As long as the house spawns at the edge of the map (every single time for me so far) your agents can just take cover behind the house and snipe away at the enemies with sports rifles. All the enemies have zero cover.

Hmm, maybe I was really unlucky because that house always seemed to spawn in the middle of the map for me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2020, 05:23:49 pm
Darn, I think I was wrong - I did change some stuff.

Will have a look at this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Foxhound634 on September 28, 2020, 10:20:36 pm
the Hobbes debacle

What happened?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 29, 2020, 01:30:56 am
What happened?
I believe one day Hobbes demanded that all of his tilesets be removed from all mods that used it, since many mods used his tilesets it was quite a setback for some mods. AFAIK
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 29, 2020, 01:33:12 am
Because I never felt like making the crew... :(
How about retexturing the cyberweb space suits with the council salvagers colours, purple and white? Give them a few of the salvager's weapons?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 29, 2020, 10:38:51 am
How about retexturing the cyberweb space suits with the council salvagers colours, purple and white? Give them a few of the salvager's weapons?

You mean a new salvager unit for Dimension X?

If yes, then sure, can be done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: thePaleone on September 29, 2020, 01:05:59 pm
I believe one day Hobbes demanded that all of his tilesets be removed from all mods that used it, since many mods used his tilesets it was quite a setback for some mods. AFAIK

Why would Hobbes do that? I thought he's like a big modder/founder in this forum or something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 29, 2020, 01:34:03 pm
Can we drop the subject now, please? I'm not joking.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: krautbernd on September 29, 2020, 03:01:00 pm
Quote
Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it

Honestly, I think this should be adressed in so far as to avoid misunderstandings for people who don't what actually happened. I also had to piece this together bit by bit since I stumbled upon this after the fact ("Why has the terrain been changed?"). This wouldn't ahve been an issue if custom maps / maps created with the map editor where automatically attached to something like GPL or similar licenses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Jimboman on September 29, 2020, 03:49:33 pm
Can we drop the subject now, please? I'm not joking.

It's my fault for mentioning it, sorry Solarius.

On another note, Salvagers in the Dimension X mission sounds good.  I've only just started that arc in this run-through and am looking forward to seeing what's been added.

I hate those flying mossie-type swarms by the way, but just like real ones a dose of flamethrower and/or chem seems to help. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 29, 2020, 04:00:38 pm
I don't plan to make any Dimension X missions in the nearest future, because I am busy with other parts (currently UAC and Cult of Apocalypse). But in the future it may well happen. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on September 29, 2020, 08:42:40 pm
It is probably just bad luck. While I never had any trouble particulary about zombie infectors, in one replay the dagon outpost did not spawn for a year and a half (only safehouses). Thanks to that I couldn't take any Chosen or Priest alive and research Dagon Operations, which means I had a plane that sucked even when the invasion started (you can only go so far with Dragonfly). Same stuff.

I had both Exalt and Red Dawn Bases (not HQs) not spawning in half an year or more. You can rename a safehouse to the outpost string in the save file and it should spawn correctly if you feel irritated enough to cheat it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2020, 01:10:38 pm
Shit, really sorry about that. Krautbernd did a few other things and apparently I mixed up some credits. I will immediately fix this mistake as much as possible.

Sincerest apologies, this was quite embarrassing and generally uncool.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: the nomad on September 30, 2020, 07:44:07 pm
I had both Exalt and Red Dawn Bases (not HQs) not spawning in half an year or more. You can rename a safehouse to the outpost string in the save file and it should spawn correctly if you feel irritated enough to cheat it.

Good to know if it happens again!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 02, 2020, 09:35:12 pm
So I just finished the moonbase core assult mission but when I checked the research it says I havn't done it, am I missing something other than the etherial Guardian, can you only get those from the core assault?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 02, 2020, 09:42:52 pm
So I just finished the moonbase core assult mission but when I checked the research it says I havn't done it, am I missing something other than the etherial Guardian, can you only get those from the core assault?

Finishing that mission should automatically give you the research "Alien Lunar Colony: Core invaded." This, PLUS Ethereal Grands Master, and also any Commander, will give you access to Cydonia or Bust.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 03, 2020, 01:53:22 am
Finishing that mission should automatically give you the research "Alien Lunar Colony: Core invaded." This, PLUS Ethereal Grands Master, and also any Commander, will give you access to Cydonia or Bust.
My apologies I completed the Main part of the moonbase, not the core, I still need the Etherial Knight to proceed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2020, 12:15:46 pm
No worries, good luck.

Meanwhile, I finally finished this:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: HT on October 03, 2020, 01:39:33 pm
No worries, good luck.

Meanwhile, I finally finished this:
I see you wanted to do an ED-209 from Robocop, and that's close enough I suppose. The ammo expenditure will be annoying to keep though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2020, 07:27:34 pm
I see you wanted to do an ED-209 from Robocop, and that's close enough I suppose. The ammo expenditure will be annoying to keep though.

Actually ED-209 is already represented more accurately by the Syndicate's Walker. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: krautbernd on October 03, 2020, 08:37:41 pm
Actually ED-209 is already represented more accurately by the Syndicate's Walker. :)
Unfortunately not implemented so far is its inability to safely traverse stairs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: EmoNewtype on October 06, 2020, 07:45:05 am
No worries, good luck.

Meanwhile, I finally finished this:

I had been wondering why none of the higher tech HWPs had access to the Minigun. Now I no longer need to wonder. Can't wait to see this fully implemented in-game!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: HT on October 15, 2020, 02:37:54 am
Not sure if it's a bug, an oddity of using not the latest update, or whatever: Whenever one of my soldiers finishes a transformation procedure (ie: Bio-enhancement unlocked from the Red Dawn drugs), they don't seem to return to their last position/job before said activity. Or at least they don't with the gym: Whoever did finish being upgraded, is removed from the gym. Moreover, the game doesn't even tell you when one of said improved agents is fully recovered.

I suppose that's because recovering agents from transformations are considered to be "wounded". Wouldn't it be better if they were "transferred" to your base instead of counting as wounded? That way the game would warn you of when an agent is finished with the transformation and returns to duty.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on October 15, 2020, 05:01:06 am
After some transformations, like pilot training or martial arts training, your agents are indeed transferred. Apparently the training happens off-site and takes quite a while.
Other transformations, like bio-enhancement and the tactical implant (i presume, haven't actually gotten that far yet), require surgery, so the "wounded" status is appropriate.

I agree, it would be nice to be notified, whenever an agent recovers from their wounds, and not only after a transformation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2020, 03:10:18 pm
There are actually two factors here: injury and transfer. A transformation can use either, or both. So there's no hard rules here, depends on the transformation.

In other news, I suppose I should keep you guys more up to date with what is happening. And a lot is going on! here are some teasers of what has already been accomplished (definitely not a complete list):
- One of my current goals is to make late game more challenging, and I started by introducing alien plasma turrets in bases and some of the largest UFOs.
- For some complicated reasons related to late game balance, you can't buy AI units any more - now you have to make them out of very rare resource (you get a very limited amount in early game). On the other hand, AI units can be reactivated even if they "die", as long as you recover their remains.
- Thanks to the latest OXCE features, enemy units will now react to melee attacks, which really gives melee more depth. And even more importantly, targeting terrain with melee weapons is now possible! Big kudos to Meridian for adding these.
- A lot of graphics have been added or updated, with very generous contribution particularly from Brain_322, and also from Alex D (who really got into making interesting submods for XCF - check out his threads for details).
- Of course, new weapons, missions, terain features, rebalances, fixes and the like.

I'm not sure when 1.6 will come out, since I'm not tired of working on it yet and I have big plans. If you want to get the new content right now, you can as usual get it from https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/archive/master.zip (possibly unstable, but I'm always trying to keep it in working condition).

Attaching a few random screenshots!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: HT on October 15, 2020, 06:48:54 pm
There are actually two factors here: injury and transfer. A transformation can use either, or both. So there's no hard rules here, depends on the transformation.

I see. Can you have bio-enhancements use transfer or both then, please? That way we can keep track of when they're ready.

- For some complicated reasons related to late game balance, you can't buy AI units any more - now you have to make them out of very rare resource (you get a very limited amount in early game). On the other hand, AI units can be reactivated even if they "die", as long as you recover their remains.

Well drat, good thing I have a good reserve of AIs in my saved games. Remotely controlling a small scout drone is getting more and more complicated it seems.

Yay even more armors for dogs! No underwater capable ones, sadly. What about playable zombies controlled with chips?   ;)
Probably a bit too unethical for XCOM though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 15, 2020, 07:25:35 pm
The RD enhancement thing causes injury.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: HT on October 15, 2020, 07:51:23 pm
I meant in the sense that you're given a warning when an agent is recovered, or that at least they return to their former jobs/positions/whatever (ie: training), rather than becoming idle, and forcing you to manually put them again wherever you wish them to be.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on October 15, 2020, 08:51:16 pm
enemy units will now react to melee attacks
Oh no!

targeting terrain with melee weapons is now possible!
OH YES!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on October 15, 2020, 10:39:23 pm
So in order to retrofit an old save with the new AI stuff. I should either:
1. Unresearch Kiryu-kai (by editing the savefile), which will give me the ability to research it again and gain the correct item.
2. Find the string for the item given by Kiryu-kai and add it manually to the stores.
3. Do nothing and hope that it will drop from something, somewhere, somehow.

Old Basic AI Units should be ressurectable normally, right? Or I need a research to be able to do that?

Also, after sorting the above I should leave only one A.I., because if I started the campaign with this change, I would have had only one until I get more of the Alienware Shards (I am a bit lazy to check the actual name right now).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 16, 2020, 12:24:50 pm
I meant in the sense that you're given a warning when an agent is recovered, or that at least they return to their former jobs/positions/whatever (ie: training), rather than becoming idle, and forcing you to manually put them again wherever you wish them to be.

Well, that's certainly not related to me, since you are talking about how the game works, not the mod.

So in order to retrofit an old save with the new AI stuff. I should either:
1. Unresearch Kiryu-kai (by editing the savefile), which will give me the ability to research it again and gain the correct item.
2. Find the string for the item given by Kiryu-kai and add it manually to the stores.
3. Do nothing and hope that it will drop from something, somewhere, somehow.

If you want to be purist about it (commendable), then I suggest going with no. 1 and also selling all AI units you have. Feel free to add some other research instead, to make up for the lost research points.

If you don't want to be that super purist, but achieve the same result, then simply add STR_ALENIUM_SHARD to your stores and also sell any AI units you might have.

If you don't mean to be purist at all, but still keep things more or less fair, just keep your AIs, they'll be fine. You will also be able to reclaim any AIs you lost in the past, as long as they were recovered. You should also add STR_ALENIUM_SHARD to researched topics, just to have access to the Pedia topic (otherwise you'd have to wait until you find another shard somewhere, and this will probably take years in-game).

Old Basic AI Units should be ressurectable normally, right? Or I need a research to be able to do that?

Yes they should (as long as you recovered their wrecked chassis).

Also, after sorting the above I should leave only one A.I., because if I started the campaign with this change, I would have had only one until I get more of the Alienware Shards (I am a bit lazy to check the actual name right now).

To be precise, you get 1 shard from researching Kiryu-Kai and also 2 shards from a one-time event which you get after researching the first one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on October 16, 2020, 06:03:38 pm
If I unresearch the Kiryu-Kai I will have had some points from other researches done. I will think about it when I am back in Geoscope.

About the Boomer Organs. Are the Human Sacrifices from the Luchador mission (Barn of Gore) dead or alive? Would they be usable for the whole Boomer organ production?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Mrvex on October 16, 2020, 06:45:08 pm
Reacting to melee attacks ?

As in, they will now try to fight back with their weapons stock (if possible) or shoot at point blank ?.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: tarkalak on October 16, 2020, 06:52:27 pm
Reacting to melee attacks ?

As in, they will now try to fight back with their weapons stock (if possible) or shoot at point blank ?.

If I recall correctly, the game first tries melee reaction attacks and then shifts to shooting reactions. So the enemies should first try to punch you, and if unable, try to shoot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 16, 2020, 07:48:07 pm
About the Boomer Organs. Are the Human Sacrifices from the Luchador mission (Barn of Gore) dead or alive? Would they be usable for the whole Boomer organ production?

They're not relevant to boomer organs, they're just normal people. Alive and traumatized.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: Aciho on October 21, 2020, 01:28:04 am
I wish to report a hilarious bug.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 21, 2020, 01:12:54 pm
I wish to report a hilarious bug.

Thanks, it's been reported before (has a whole thread), and is now fixed... But indeed it was hilarious. :) (Some people are pretty sad about this issue having been fixed...)

Version 1.6 has been released!

1.6:
- New missions: UAC Weapon Lab, UAC Office, X-Com Slander (Shared Elerium Explosives).
- New units: UAC Engineer, UAC Manager, Alien Small Plasma Turret (graphics by Brain_322).
- New craft weapon: Pike Launcher.
- New UFO: MiB Strike Ship.
- New Alien Base mapblocks.
- New Forest mapblock (by Brain_322).
- 11 new maps for Urban Low (9 by Brain_322).
- New item: Alenium Shard.
- New armor for dogs: Synthgear (graphics by Brain_322).
- New armor for AI units: Sectopod Minigun.
- New weapon: H&K G36 (by Alex D).
- New ammo: EMP Minibomb.
- New ammo types for the Grenade Launcher and the Milkor (by Alex D), as well as the Tactical Grenade Launcher (graphics by Alex D).
- Sonic Shotgun is now 1x2.
- Improved UAC SMG, UAC Shotgun and UAC Rocket Launcher bigobs (by Brain_322).
- Better BlackOps Auto-Shotgun Clip sprites (by Alex D) and X-Com Assault Plasma sprites (by Brain_322).
- Hybrid flag (by Brain_322).
- Cyberweb Roboturret Ufopedia pictures (by Brain_322).
- Obliterator and Aquatoid (by Brain_322) and Minotaur (by Perturbator) autopsy pictures.
- Better MiB Heavy Trooper, Aquatoid, Gillman, Elite Soldier and Pig paperdolls (by Brain_322).
- New graphics for Ethereal Grand Master (by Brain_322).
- Completely redesigned how AI units work (now they need Alenium Shards to be produced, but can be revived after "death").
- Units should now react to melee attacks as well.
- Melee weapons now can target terrain and the kukri is now a melee weapon.
- Throwing things underwater now decreases the range.
- Men in Black streamlined and now with their own X-Com base assault mission.
- Aded a small second stage to the Underground Conduits mission for better presentation and structure.
- Some monster missions last longer.
- Reviewed and fixed various armor resistances.
- Organic units are now weakly susceptible to EMP damage.
- Chryssalid attack won't work if it doesn't do any damage (by Mistar Red).
- Rats have psi vision and better stealth.
- Boomer Organs can now be made from Zombie Parasites and are a bit stronger.
- Uncoupled Mass Drivers from Gauss weapons.
- Skulljack now really doesn't need Psi Skill.
- Alien Bomb can now be recovered and used.
- Miniguns somewhat debuffed.
- Renamed Small Launcher bombs to minibombs for clarity.
- Increased the price of some X-Com crafts.
- Temporarily disabled the Phase Drive item as necessary for Reptoid ships construction.
- Tweaked Enforcer stats.
- Dogs, rats and AIs now have their own "ranks" to easier discern them.
- Dogs now use layered armors.
- Large Alien Drone Adaptation fix.
- Mudranger door fix.
- Cow spritesheet fix (by Alex D).
- Minor fixes and additions.

Don't forget to upgrade to OXCE 6.7, since some mod features rely on it!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life will Never Be The Same
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on October 21, 2020, 04:48:52 pm
Hey, man.
Thank you for the mod. Just started playing it. Looks very interesting.

I am currently reading through descriptions. Most of them are very informative and help beginners like me to understand what to do.

Few questions.
Small shotgun seems to be lighter, more precise, faster, more powerful, cheaper than pump action shotgun. It is also concealable. What is the point to use pump action shotgun then???
There are a lot of small firearms with relatively similar speed, weight, precision. Their parameters vary by few percents or something. Is there really any difference in using them? What is the best one?
The three "Medi-kit" items have same exactly description. Would you mind to specify their benefits? Like the bigger one is healing better or have more charges or something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on October 21, 2020, 04:56:12 pm
Hey, man.
Thank you for the mod. Just started playing it. Looks very interesting.

I am currently reading through descriptions. Most of them are very informative and help beginners like me to understand what to do.

Few questions.
Small shotgun seems to be lighter, more precise, faster, more powerful, cheaper than pump action shotgun. It is also concealable. What is the point to use pump action shotgun then???
There are a lot of small firearms with relatively similar speed, weight, precision. Their parameters vary by few percents or something. Is there really any difference in using them? What is the best one?
The three "Medi-kit" items have same exactly description. Would you mind to specify their benefits? Like the bigger one is healing better or have more charges or something?

The Small Shotgun have range of 3, and beyond that the accuracy falls with 6 per tile I believe. You will see it on the Battlescape, when the percentage near your aiming cursor turns yellow.

There are many guns that have similar statistics, it's up to your preference. You should make a habit of checking their "info" pages, as their aiming ranges might be different, also some weapons have bonuses from different skills, so you need to check that too.

In the inventory screen, if you hold "Alt" (or was it Ctrl), the gun name will change to the damage potential. This is useful for weapons that get damage bonus from skills. Also you should enable the extra inventory stats from the options, this shows you how much aim your soldier has in the inventory screen (so you don't have to check in another screen and go back and forth).

Again you can see how many uses they have in the "Info". The small one is 1 use, the green one is 2 and the big one is 3 uses. It is that many uses of everything (heal, painkiller and stimulant). Also they weight differently so it depends on how much your soldiers can carry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 21, 2020, 04:58:25 pm
[Damn, ninjad by Tarkalak. Let me post anyway.]

Hey, man.
Thank you for the mod. Just started playing it. Looks very interesting.

Hello! Thanks, and I'll hope you'll like it. (Warning: it's kinda grindy.)

Small shotgun seems to be lighter, more precise, faster, more powerful, cheaper than pump action shotgun. It is also concealable. What is the point to use pump action shotgun then???

The dropoff on the small shotgun really sucks, making it impractical to use at distances exceeding several tiles. You'll see it clearly on a mission, or check heck the INFO button.

There are a lot of small firearms with relatively similar speed, weight, precision. Their parameters vary by few percents or something. Is there really any difference in using them? What is the best one?

Many of them are indeed pretty similar, and they're mostly there for variety and accuracy - like, American cultists using different guns from Asian cultists, etc.

The three "Medi-kit" items have same exactly description. Would you mind to specify their benefits? Like the bigger one is healing better or have more charges or something?

Yes, their amount of charges varies. The INFO button should tell you about that, or you can just see it on the mission, so I didn't want to put all this info in the description.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life will Never Be The Same
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on October 21, 2020, 05:58:06 pm
The dropoff on the small shotgun really sucks, making it impractical to use at distances exceeding several tiles. You'll see it clearly on a mission, or check heck the INFO button.

I see two parameters: shot range (for shot type) and dropoff. Aren't they for the same purpose? How do they play together?

---Merged your two posts, since they were posted at exactly same second, so something probably went wrong. - Solar ---

Yes, their amount of charges varies. The INFO button should tell you about that, or you can just see it on the mission, so I didn't want to put all this info in the description.

Maybe not exact capacity but some short note like "bigger containments of supplies than first aid bag". Just to hint people if they want to check this in info.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 21, 2020, 06:30:06 pm
I see two parameters: shot range (for shot type) and dropoff. Aren't they for the same purpose? How do they play together?

Shot range determines the cutoff after which accuracy drops. Dropoff determines how much it drops.

Maybe not exact capacity but some short note like "bigger containments of supplies than first aid bag". Just to hint people if they want to check this in info.

I guess we can, but I want to put so much references between articles... I don't know what the reader has already read. I can do something here if needed, but it feels a bit superfluous. Opinions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on October 21, 2020, 06:34:05 pm
It is superfluous for experience player who doesn't read these entries anymore. For beginner like me every bit of info matters. It is sort of starter manual.
Other articles are very informative for me as a beginner. I can understand in which direction to go now.
You do add some distinctive hints in other equipment entries like "short ranged", "fast", "accurate", etc. So as well can add some distinction in medpacks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 21, 2020, 08:46:56 pm
All right, I'll review these descriptions. 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on October 21, 2020, 11:51:00 pm
One more thing about medpacks. They seem quite undistinguishable except number of meds in them. As a player I would probably take 3 small ones or 1 big one with more or less same effect. I would love to see each item having its unique benefits and drawbacks. Like the difference between small shotgun and pump action one. I would definitely need to think which one to take on which mission. With current med packs - not so much. You can keep just one without losing a bit of playability. Otherwise, uniquify them if you still want to keep them all around. Like bigger ones has something extra previous level does not but smaller ones are much cheaper/smaller/lighter/faster, etc. For example, the bigger one seems bulky so it may be curing some rare but deadly condition. So people would need to take it on a mission but not carry in a pocket while smaller one had some local and minor effect, limited usage, but fits into the pocket so it is easy to carry one around.

It is not a demand. Merely an observation and thought. 😉
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on October 22, 2020, 05:59:41 am
Besides having different amounts of charges, medical items also heal different amounts of HP/stamina/morale per use. Also, costs of using them are different and some can be used on self, while others can't.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on October 22, 2020, 09:48:41 am
One more thing about medpacks. They seem quite undistinguishable except number of meds in them. As a player I would probably take 3 small ones or 1 big one with more or less same effect. I would love to see each item having its unique benefits and drawbacks. Like the difference between small shotgun and pump action one. I would definitely need to think which one to take on which mission. With current med packs - not so much. You can keep just one without losing a bit of playability. Otherwise, uniquify them if you still want to keep them all around. Like bigger ones has something extra previous level does not but smaller ones are much cheaper/smaller/lighter/faster, etc. For example, the bigger one seems bulky so it may be curing some rare but deadly condition. So people would need to take it on a mission but not carry in a pocket while smaller one had some local and minor effect, limited usage, but fits into the pocket so it is easy to carry one around.

It is not a demand. Merely an observation and thought. 😉

There is nuances between the medikits. Every hit that produces a wound does 1-3 wounds.

First Aid kit: One heal is rarely enough and you loose more TUs, because you need to move it around in inventory for every heal.
Second medikit: Has best weight to heal ratio: 4 weight per heal, but is still not enough for the full 3 wound hit.
Big medikit: Has enough heals, but is 15 weight and limits what else your soldier can carry.

Also the later two will take up your belt 2x2 space if you don't have a backpack.

All of the starting medikits lack enough heals for a prolonged gunfight, so you will end up walking back to the craft to pick up more.

Then you have some further types of kits that you will research. And they have some more pros and cons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2020, 10:39:41 am
One more thing about medpacks. They seem quite undistinguishable except number of meds in them. As a player I would probably take 3 small ones or 1 big one with more or less same effect. I would love to see each item having its unique benefits and drawbacks. Like the difference between small shotgun and pump action one. I would definitely need to think which one to take on which mission. With current med packs - not so much. You can keep just one without losing a bit of playability. Otherwise, uniquify them if you still want to keep them all around. Like bigger ones has something extra previous level does not but smaller ones are much cheaper/smaller/lighter/faster, etc. For example, the bigger one seems bulky so it may be curing some rare but deadly condition. So people would need to take it on a mission but not carry in a pocket while smaller one had some local and minor effect, limited usage, but fits into the pocket so it is easy to carry one around.

I get your point, but I really can't see how I can make them more different with the available options. But as a player, I would prefer keeping the current number for better loadout flexibility.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on October 22, 2020, 04:20:45 pm
Agree.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2020, 04:34:54 pm
I reuploaded the mod as 1.6b, to fix some issues with robots being immune to simple weapons like crowbars and fists. (Essentially they were immune, and they shouldn't be.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: HT on October 22, 2020, 09:45:18 pm
Wow, a new update right when I installed the 5th version, yay! It apparently has lots of good stuff, such as finally including the type of agent next to their names in the soldier list, freaking finally. That was a life saver. Also, AI Units are also very rare to acquire, which means I have a surplus of them due using a save before the update.

Just to know: Why make AI Units so hard to acquire, when initially they're not that good with the scout drone chassis (and the medical one as well)? Until you unlock HWP tech, they're not that good compared to any regular agent, and unless you luck out and unlock the rocket launcher scout chassis early, they won't be able to contribute much to fights.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2020, 02:02:16 pm
Just to know: Why make AI Units so hard to acquire, when initially they're not that good with the scout drone chassis (and the medical one as well)? Until you unlock HWP tech, they're not that good compared to any regular agent, and unless you luck out and unlock the rocket launcher scout chassis early, they won't be able to contribute much to fights.

The reasons are complex and explaining them here would be rather time consuming, but it is mostly to:
1) various late game balance issues
2) lore/common sense (AIs weren't very believable as they were before)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: krautbernd on October 23, 2020, 03:43:11 pm
The reasons are complex and explaining them here would be rather time consuming, but it is mostly to:
1) various late game balance issues
2) lore/common sense (AIs weren't very believable as they were before)
I was always under the impression that vanilla HWPs were not AI controlled units, but "remotely" piloted. IIRC your original idea as first implemented was to have a "basic" AI unit that wasn't able to improve stats and an alien AI unit which could. Would you maybe think about implementing this system again, at least for early game HWP chasis (scout/first aid drone)? As far as I can tell there is no need lore-wise to straight-out require "actual" AI units, seeing how they already come with "technicians". Maybe these technicians are also trained HWP/drone operators?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2020, 04:18:51 pm
I was always under the impression that vanilla HWPs were not AI controlled units, but "remotely" piloted.

Maybe, maybe not. Both possibilities create a lot of problems. :)

IIRC your original idea as first implemented was to have a "basic" AI unit that wasn't able to improve stats and an alien AI unit which could. Would you maybe think about implementing this system again, at least for early game HWP chasis (scout/first aid drone)? As far as I can tell there is no need lore-wise to straight-out require "actual" AI units, seeing how they already come with "technicians". Maybe these technicians are also trained HWP/drone operators?

The reason I scrapped that was because for half the campaign, people were stuck with AIs who couldn't develop their stats or anything, which was just boring and anticlimatic. I just didn't like it.

Anyway, with the current model we can have the cake and eat the cake, so there's point in discussing what ifs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Mrvex on October 25, 2020, 07:45:10 pm
I was under impression too. It would make sense for them to be remotely controlled given the timeframe and AI self driving tanks is something i am sure we wont even see in 2020. It would also make sense that the operators would improve through combat since AI otherwise should be extremely accurate by itself since it can do calculations within miliseconds, like talking about 90-100% accurate with something like a laser cannon which has no recoil and flies at the speed of light so aiming this thing is just pointing towards the target and shooting. But i guess thats for sake of balance because being able to pump out almost perfectly accurate units that will one shot most enemies in the game would break the game.

Also a side note, i do find it quite funny that tanks/HWP can drive dropships. So can dogs and rats.

(https://i.imgur.com/mJHry2e.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Meridian on October 25, 2020, 08:30:59 pm
So can dogs and rats.

Dogs and rats cannot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on October 26, 2020, 09:28:08 am
Dogs and rats cannot.

They can, but only on the return trip and only if all the humans are dead. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 26, 2020, 12:17:37 pm
They can, but only on the return trip and only if all the humans are dead. :P

(https://i.imgur.com/fcvgZy4.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on October 26, 2020, 02:07:23 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fcvgZy4.png)

I don't see him here. ~8:54

https://youtu.be/s88-FB9EAxs?t=534 (https://youtu.be/s88-FB9EAxs?t=534)

EDIT: Is "Master of the Punch" award separate for each armor? It would be cool if it is awarded regardless of the suit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 26, 2020, 03:12:18 pm
I don't see him here. ~8:54

That was eons ago, before such an option was available.

EDIT: Is "Master of the Punch" award separate for each armor? It would be cool if it is awarded regardless of the suit.

Depends; some armours share the same punching weapon, but many are different.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: pbalint on October 30, 2020, 07:41:28 am
Just 2 quick questions:
Having read the changelog:
Quote
1.6:
- New missions: UAC Weapon Lab, UAC Office, X-Com Slander (Shared Elerium Explosives).
...

-Does one need to start a new campaign to encounter these new missions?
-Is it possible to train psi strength, considering the option is disabled and not changeable for this mod?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Mathel on October 31, 2020, 11:16:28 am
-Does one need to start a new campaign to encounter these new missions?
-Is it possible to train psi strength, considering the option is disabled and not changeable for this mod?
No.
Not as such. There is a transformation that increases it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 02, 2020, 06:18:42 pm
No.
Not as such. There is a transformation that increases it.

And a commendation or two that also increases it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: BlackStaff on November 04, 2020, 02:02:25 pm
Not a bug...

v1.6b in en-US.yml
STR_XCOM_SLANDER_SHARE_ALIEN_GARDENS_TECH    --->     already exists 4 lines below!  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 04, 2020, 11:25:35 pm
Not a bug...

v1.6b in en-US.yml
STR_XCOM_SLANDER_SHARE_ALIEN_GARDENS_TECH    --->     already exists 4 lines below!  ;)

Er, um... Redundancy! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: termidor on November 09, 2020, 02:22:15 am
Hi , just wanted to say that I'm quite enjoying  the mod right now. I  originally wrote a much larger reply, but it got lost due to the session closing, so this is a brief version with some questions  and suggestions.
- Is there a way to hide items from the buying list? It gets  quite crowded  as the game goes on, but i believe is the QoL feature  that would  be most welcoming if not implemented
- You should  get the Osprey if you take  down any sect base. In my game I didn't  prioritize  Black lotus due to how the bases were positioned , but it felt bad to know that there was a competent  transport  after defeating  Exalt and the Church with the dragonfly. Feels more logical to get the big bad boy if you are preparing  to take down a heavily  fortify base.
- The Bio Suit feels quite useless right now, i don't  know if I'm missing  something  but the armored vest seem better as a load out in most situations .
- It is necessary  to advance in all the storyline to win? The zombie line seem to be very hard for what you get in return.
- One minor thing, but giving MAGNA access to titanium should  come after you research how to manufacture it yourself.
- Why is the option  for instant explosions  from grenades  not up to the player?
- After seeing that we can recruit  rats, which was a pleasant  surprise,  could  we get expand options  to recruit  other monsters for example shadow bats or werewolfs? In the case of the latter and for more OP beast, they could  get a sanity  hit in every mission independently  of the situation,  making  then unable to be deploy in every missions  and being sub par if things drag too long. Also their availability  should  be limited to those that you captured,  making then a finite resource.
- More alternative research options  would  be welcome , specially  from when the player is out of research options because  he lack something. This was something  that happen to me in the Final mod pack, as well as in my first run  of this mod andiIn the current  game  I was saved by some allien alloys while I wait for the final promotion.  They shouldn't  be very flashy things, but options to keep the sense of novelty and escalation. Some concrete example would  be for example some weapon modifications ( give a rifle a bayonet, make the farming flamethrower  useful), use for materials (the spiderweb can be a good candidate) or specialized  gear( A better weapon for different  type of infiltration  mission for example).
-Do stat gain from awards allow soldiers to go over their training  limit? Honestly  I prefer the final mod pack system of soldier awards being purely  cosmetic.
-How does unit size affect soldier accuracy?  Because there seem to be little difference  in shooting  a Rat and shooting  a zombie from a distance
-Finally about balance, two points:the cattle prod should  be better than the electric club due to difficulty  in storage and the bigger TU cost, and the 45. Cal Smg should use 30 round magazines. Also black ops contact  should  probably come after contacting  the cult arms dealer as their stuff (Black ops)is most of the time superior.
Ps: If I wanted to use TFTD damage formula or the 50-200, would  I need to modify  each weapon  entry or it is stored elsewhere?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 09, 2020, 11:47:08 am
Hi , just wanted to say that I'm quite enjoying  the mod right now. I  originally wrote a much larger reply, but it got lost due to the session closing, so this is a brief version with some questions  and suggestions.

Hello, amnd thank you!

- Is there a way to hide items from the buying list? It gets  quite crowded  as the game goes on, but i believe is the QoL feature  that would  be most welcoming if not implemented

Yes, R-click on itgems on this list (as well as manufacturing, etc.); to undo, check the "Hidden" category under filters.

- You should  get the Osprey if you take  down any sect base. In my game I didn't  prioritize  Black lotus due to how the bases were positioned , but it felt bad to know that there was a competent  transport  after defeating  Exalt and the Church with the dragonfly. Feels more logical to get the big bad boy if you are preparing  to take down a heavily  fortify base.

Sorry, I do not know how it relates - priorities for the Osprey are completely different, not dependent specifically on Black Lotus in particular (at least not more than the other three cults).

- The Bio Suit feels quite useless right now, i don't  know if I'm missing  something  but the armored vest seem better as a load out in most situations .

Did you mean the Bio-Exo Suit?
If yes, well, it's one of the most useful things in the mod, as attested by many players...

- It is necessary  to advance in all the storyline to win? The zombie line seem to be very hard for what you get in return.

No, this arc and similar aree optional. They don't even give you anything really good right now, but I'm working on it.

- One minor thing, but giving MAGNA access to titanium should  come after you research how to manufacture it yourself.

I see where you're coming from... You're right, I'll change it.

- Why is the option  for instant explosions  from grenades  not up to the player?

Because it's the worst cheat in the history of cheats. :)

- After seeing that we can recruit  rats, which was a pleasant  surprise,  could  we get expand options  to recruit  other monsters for example shadow bats or werewolfs? In the case of the latter and for more OP beast, they could  get a sanity  hit in every mission independently  of the situation,  making  then unable to be deploy in every missions  and being sub par if things drag too long. Also their availability  should  be limited to those that you captured,  making then a finite resource.

Yes, I have such plans (I even have a list of Shadowbat names already in the mod!), they're just not high priority.

- More alternative research options  would  be welcome , specially  from when the player is out of research options because  he lack something. This was something  that happen to me in the Final mod pack, as well as in my first run  of this mod andiIn the current  game  I was saved by some allien alloys while I wait for the final promotion.  They shouldn't  be very flashy things, but options to keep the sense of novelty and escalation. Some concrete example would  be for example some weapon modifications ( give a rifle a bayonet, make the farming flamethrower  useful), use for materials (the spiderweb can be a good candidate) or specialized  gear( A better weapon for different  type of infiltration  mission for example).

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8729.0.html XD
But seriously, such things must be done with care, because they take a lot of time, it's not very fun to do, and the added value is negligible. I like having lots of stuff, but it should serve some more specific purpose than "make sure the player never runs out of research".

-Do stat gain from awards allow soldiers to go over their training  limit? Honestly  I prefer the final mod pack system of soldier awards being purely  cosmetic.

Yes, they definitely allow you to go over their normal caps. This is a crucial part of the XCF balance, together with soldier transformations.

-How does unit size affect soldier accuracy?  Because there seem to be little difference  in shooting  a Rat and shooting  a zombie from a distance

There is a difference. I can't explain it in purely math terms - I don't think even a person who understands it completely could do that, it's just too complicated - but smaller targets are harder to hit, and also they have an easier time hiding behind obstacles.

-Finally about balance, two points:the cattle prod should  be better than the electric club due to difficulty  in storage and the bigger TU cost, and the 45.

It's also much more primitive. No.

Cal Smg should use 30 round magazines.

Which one? And why?
Real guns generally have real stats, but many of them exist in multiple variants, so I had to pick one.

Also black ops contact  should  probably come after contacting  the cult arms dealer as their stuff (Black ops)is most of the time superior.

It almost always does; cult dealers are significantly easier to get. Perhaps your playstyle leads to a different result, but it's not typical.

Ps: If I wanted to use TFTD damage formula or the 50-200, would  I need to modify  each weapon  entry or it is stored elsewhere?

You'd have to modify each entry (except for explosives, which as 50-150% by nature).
Still, I don't recommend this, as the 0-200% model seems more realistic due to counterbalancing certain quirks in the X-Com mechanics (such as unit shapes being cylinders).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Mrvex on November 09, 2020, 12:48:04 pm

- Why is the option  for instant explosions  from grenades  not up to the player?



Its possible to do it for yourself and its really easy, just go to the Document/OpenXcom/mods/XCOMfiles/Ruleset/vars and open it with any text editing editor.

There you will see all the options, whenever the game taunts you with them or not. You can also modify certain parameters there that the game doesnt even tell you, for example the threshold for enemies to activate the "bug hunt mode" where they start showing up on the minimap so you can activate it earlier or with more enemies present, this can save alot of time. This is not intended way to play the mod but its up to you, i myself play with the instant grenades and quicker bug hunt mode since that makes the mod more fun and explosives waaaaayyy more useful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: termidor on November 09, 2020, 08:45:32 pm
Thanks for the answers, it just seemed  odd that the  option wasn't  up to the player, if in the future  I do a new run I will definitely look into the options. Regarding  the balancing parts:
- the smg I was referring  to where the M3 and the big mac-10 which both use 50 round magazines. Considering their auto mode, they benefit  too much from having the extra rounds( Afaik the m3 used a 30 round magazine).
- The thing with the cattle prod is that it comes after the electric baton, so it  seemed strange to see how underperforming it was. Maybe I was just unlucky with it, but it doesn't  seem to be worth the trouble.

Also one thing I forgot to ake: What does the gym do? I'm quite sure I got something  wrong, but it seems to be focused on improving experienced agents judging by the + button.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Mrvex on November 10, 2020, 11:11:36 am


Also one thing I forgot to ake: What does the gym do? I'm quite sure I got something  wrong, but it seems to be focused on improving experienced agents judging by the + button.

Gym lets 10 agents train which passively increases their stats to a point. You can assign them to a gym via agent menu when you look at your base, -> agent info and you will see a list of what you can do with your men. This is how you can also upgrade your troops via special training or other modifications you discover as you play.

(https://i.imgur.com/QjmmBRB.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 10, 2020, 11:20:43 am
-Do stat gain from awards allow soldiers to go over their training  limit? Honestly  I prefer the final mod pack system of soldier awards being purely  cosmetic.

In addition to what Solarius said. Note that the normal training caps are way lower than in the original game to compensate for the commendations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2020, 04:53:42 pm
Thanks for the answers, it just seemed  odd that the  option wasn't  up to the player

Well, I wasn't kidding aobut it being a huge cheat... To the point of making guns near pointless. Grenades are just superior, and being non-instant is the only balancing point. I'm not the only modder who blocks this.
 
- the smg I was referring  to where the M3 and the big mac-10 which both use 50 round magazines. Considering their auto mode, they benefit  too much from having the extra rounds( Afaik the m3 used a 30 round magazine).

I checked and you're right, it should be 30 rounds, not 50. I'll correct this. Thanks!

- The thing with the cattle prod is that it comes after the electric baton, so it  seemed strange to see how underperforming it was. Maybe I was just unlucky with it, but it doesn't  seem to be worth the trouble.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding... But first you get the electric club (starting weapon), then the cattle prod (two-handed), and finally the stun rod (one-handed). Plus one more item higher on the tree.

Also one thing I forgot to ake: What does the gym do? I'm quite sure I got something  wrong, but it seems to be focused on improving experienced agents judging by the + button.

OK, I'll expand on the description, as it's kinda vague.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Thunderwing280 on November 12, 2020, 01:27:38 pm
How do you advance the zombie arc after capturing a tomb guardian? It's been about 2 or 3 years since i've done that in my game but I never get zombie missions anymore, do they stop when you complete the monsters arc?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 12, 2020, 01:55:09 pm
How do you advance the zombie arc after capturing a tomb guardian? It's been about 2 or 3 years since i've done that in my game but I never get zombie missions anymore, do they stop when you complete the monsters arc?

Zombie missions continue also after normal monster missions are disabled.

Researching a Tomb Guard lets you research Zombie Consciousness.

Have you researched Zombie Infector?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Aciho on November 13, 2020, 01:18:23 am
Been meaning to ask for a while - is it intended that the magma pulse LMG with chem rounds will one-shot an ethereal? Not that I'm complaining, but it does make ethereals much less threatening than they would otherwise be.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2020, 01:42:21 am
Been meaning to ask for a while - is it intended that the magma pulse LMG with chem rounds will one-shot an ethereal? Not that I'm complaining, but it does make ethereals much less threatening than they would otherwise be.

If so, then congrats, you are the first person I've seen to say anything good about pulse weapons. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: X-Man on November 13, 2020, 07:02:08 am
<....> you are the first <...>

...and the last.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 13, 2020, 12:30:42 pm
Now on a more serious note, it's not really possible to make everything fit in such a big and complex mod. I will certainly check, but even if it's true (which I assume it is), there isn't much I can do - acid is deadly to unprotected skin, and shields by design cannot protect from all types of damage (each colour has its own strengths and weaknesses).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Aciho on November 13, 2020, 08:56:51 pm
I only found out through desperation during a base defence, so that would make sense :)  But yeah, a single shot from a pulse LMG will usually kill an Ethereal soldier, and you can fire 6 shots for 45% TU...

e: each shot is 6x32 chem damage, so a burst is 1,152 chem damage assuming they all hit. Plus 10% of firing accuracy, so an accuracy 75 soldier does up to 1,442 damage. Twice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: WaldoTheRanger on November 16, 2020, 08:28:50 am
that doesn't sound like it needs fixing. just a cool quirk of old, generally bad technology still being useful late game. adds some strategic depth.
course I've never gotten that far and don't understand the context.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: krautbernd on November 16, 2020, 02:09:35 pm
I agree. Seeing how utterly impervious Ethereals are to other types of damage (unless you're using anti-tank weaponry) this should come with some kind of downside. I never really used pulse weapons either, so seeing them being actually useful for something is kind amazing tbh.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Mathel on November 16, 2020, 03:49:37 pm
I just unlocked pulse weapons and their chem ammo in my game. I also do not think that it being effective against ethereals would be a bug. It is just something the Ethereals did not expect.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 16, 2020, 04:35:29 pm
I gave it some thought and decided that the Ethereal armour is simply too low. Yes, most of their protection comes from the shields, but I thought their internal biofield should give them a bit more robustness, considering their psi powers and the fact that this field pretty much replaces their organs. So I'm buffing their armour from 7 to 18, which is still not a whole lot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: krautbernd on November 16, 2020, 08:37:56 pm
Yes, please make it even harder to kill them with conventional weapons :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 16, 2020, 08:57:24 pm
*laughs in Etheric*
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: krautbernd on November 16, 2020, 11:08:19 pm
*dies*

*reloads save*
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 17, 2020, 11:30:01 am
I just unlocked pulse weapons and their chem ammo in my game. I also do not think that it being effective against ethereals would be a bug. It is just something the Ethereals did not expect.

So you are saying that chem ammo is the Spanish Inquisition ammo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Jimboman on November 17, 2020, 03:51:31 pm
So you are saying that chem ammo is the Spanish Inquisition ammo.

Solarius is a very naughty boy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: termidor on November 18, 2020, 01:13:05 am
One quick question,  is there a chance to get extra alenium (?) shards beyond the three you get after researching about them? I'm currently  at April 1999 and I kinda of lost all the shards (two of  then were sold and one was a KIA in a mission I retreat from) so I was wondering if at any point there is the possibility  to get more.

Ps: Is there a reduced chance to trigger terror missions?  Seems  strange that I haven't  gotten one yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 18, 2020, 10:15:21 am
One quick question,  is there a chance to get extra alenium (?) shards beyond the three you get after researching about them? I'm currently  at April 1999 and I kinda of lost all the shards (two of  then were sold and one was a KIA in a mission I retreat from) so I was wondering if at any point there is the possibility  to get more.

Yes, you can find them in alien bases.

Ps: Is there a reduced chance to trigger terror missions?  Seems  strange that I haven't  gotten one yet.

It's RNG, so sometimes you get a quiet period. There's roughly a 40% chance each month, until month 32, when it becomes a bit more common (including terror subvariants).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Thunderwing280 on November 18, 2020, 10:13:27 pm
Zombie missions continue also after normal monster missions are disabled.

Researching a Tomb Guard lets you research Zombie Consciousness.

Have you researched Zombie Infector?
I have definitely researched an infector, I got that special mission to capture the tomb guardian after I researched the infector. Isn't the next stage to find a Strix? If so what missions do they spawn?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 19, 2020, 12:36:27 pm
I have definitely researched an infector, I got that special mission to capture the tomb guardian after I researched the infector. Isn't the next stage to find a Strix? If so what missions do they spawn?

Strixes spawn in Zombie Hives, which start appearing after researching "They Are Breeding!". And "They Are Breeding!" requires an Infector.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 04:13:30 pm
Hi fellas
Got meself a situation on hands

So openxcom_xfiles_1.6b is in
C:\Games\X-COM UFO Defense\user\mods\XComFiles

When I run C:\Games\X-COM UFO Defense\OpenXcomEx.exe (Extended-6.7.2-24439bd08-2020-10-24-win64), the game works but I can't see X-Com Files in the list of mods for some reason.


In the X-Com files tab there's Cyrilic Name and Dark Geoscope but not X-Com files themselves.

Has X-Com Files been loaded? How do I find out?

Also, is it possible to stretch the main game menu window? It's just too smal even at 640x480.
The screenshots you see above is the actual screen size I get in the main menu. The game itself stretches fine.

Thanks

Max



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: nicedayright on November 19, 2020, 05:19:17 pm
So your file path looks like C:\Games\X-COM UFO Defense\user\mods\XComFiles\openxcom_xfiles_1.6b, doesn't it?

Extract the zip directly into the mods folder instead.


Should end up looking like this:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: nicedayright on November 19, 2020, 06:20:47 pm
Also, Oh, you've added in reaction melee, that's great, thanks.

What I get for not reading the patch notes I guess.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 06:28:12 pm
So your file path looks like C:\Games\X-COM UFO Defense\user\mods\XComFiles\openxcom_xfiles_1.6b, doesn't it?

Extract the zip directly into the mods folder instead.


Should end up looking like this:

I've actually extracted that zip.
It has 3 mods, really.
1.  DarkGeoscape
2. XCF Cyrillic Names
3. XComFiles

1 and 2 load. They are in the list of mods.
3 doesn't load. At least it doesn't appear in mods.

So I don't know if it must. Maybe it has. I just don't see it.
How to find out?

The game starts. Geoscape is there. Can you see from Geoscape? Is it in battles you see it? What's the difference exactly between classic and x-files in the way that battles play out?

Also, should I change resolution to 1920x1080 or leave it at 640x480?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 06:38:22 pm
You know what I think?
I don't have a problem.

It just that x-com files doesn't appear on the list of mods anymore.

When I look at my options.cfg, I get:
mods:
  - active: true
    id: x-com-files
  - active: false
    id: xcom1
  - active: true
    id: Aliens_Pick_Up_Weapons

Wonder what this xcom1 is. In the folder, there are my saves.

File attached.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 19, 2020, 09:12:09 pm
Ahem ... [points at picture below]

Do you see it now?

X-Com Files is a Master mod, so it appears as an option along X-COM and TFTD in the drop down menu I circled below.

What you see on your own picture is exactly what you should see when it is activated. Try starting a game and check if you have 6 agents, the date is December 1996, there is a facility called "X-Com Headquarters" and a public car in one of the Hangars.

In case that isn't your problem, sorry for being a smart ass, I couldn't resist.  ::)

xcom1 is the Original 1993 game X-COM:UFO Defense/UFO:Enemy Unknown.

If you still don't get it try checking the Folders tab in Options, it should point to where you have put the files.

Cyrillic names will show names in Cyrillic so you shouldn't use it if you don't know Russian, Bulgarian or another Cyrillic language. Unless you want unreadable names or want to learn such a language.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 09:20:56 pm
I get it now.
X-Com files has always been activated.

On older versions it was an item on the list of modes. There are youtube videos explaining how to install openXcom. That's where I saw it.

On a different note.

How am I supposed to reach a farway suspicious activity with a mudranger whose range is so bloody short?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 09:24:17 pm
This game is unberable.

I need to start a base in Europe somewhere, not in Australia.

I'm a native Russian speaker by the way. So those names are hilarious to me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 09:25:40 pm
Why doesn't the game screen stretch in Main Menu and in base?

Is there a way to stretch the screen to the edges?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 19, 2020, 09:32:42 pm
You are not. Read the Readme it gives you some pointers.

You craft progression is:
1. Small squad (practically) unlimited range crafts.
2. Larger crafts with ~ half the world coverage.
3. Skyrangers and the like who can cover the whole world.

The Mudranger is only usable if you know where a certain mission will spawn (usually Cult HQs) and placing a base in the vicinity with prior knowledge. Otherwise it is a completely useless craft.

For the resolution try changing it in the Options. Mine is below. The Geoscope has some black area at the edges, but the Battlescope fills the whole screen. I am on Ubuntu 20.04 and I haven't tried it on Windows. Some things will still be tiny, but they are a minority.

The green color is Night Vision (for night missions), that you can toggle with Scroll Lock or Spacebar (only when pressed) or change it in the Options, like me, since Scroll Lock is ridiculous to press on my laptop. Browse the Options, you might find other stuff.

EDIT: Also change the Battlescape and Geoscape Scale to something that suits you. 1/2 Battlescape on my settings means the the BATTLESCAPE UI is twice smaller than the monitor width.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: mpechura on November 19, 2020, 09:47:23 pm
Thanks for giving me a tip about that ground car.

These mudrangers have a truly limited use.

Nice to see someone else playing this game after all these years.

One day I will beat tftd on ironman.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Thunderwing280 on November 20, 2020, 10:57:31 pm
Strixes spawn in Zombie Hives, which start appearing after researching "They Are Breeding!". And "They Are Breeding!" requires an Infector.
Huh I have researched that, I guess im just really unlucky as I researched that about a year or two ago in my game and since then have only gotten one or two zombie related missons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 21, 2020, 12:02:59 pm
Huh I have researched that, I guess im just really unlucky as I researched that about a year or two ago in my game and since then have only gotten one or two zombie related missons.

The chance is only 15% each month, so likely, yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.5.1: Around The World
Post by: RolandVasko on November 26, 2020, 10:41:53 am
I wish to report a hilarious bug.
(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4595.0;attach=51646;image)

..well, meanwhile somewhere in forresthills of south Czech (true story, bro! ä:

https://www.idnes.cz/ceske-budejovice/zpravy/jelen-myslivec-kulovnice-hon-myslivost.A201124_124157_budejovice-zpravy_mrl

https://www.novinky.cz/krimi/clanek/jelen-na-jihu-cech-sebral-myslivci-kulovnici-a-utekl-40343128

https://refresher.sk/91585-Jelen-ukradl-myslivci-na-Ceskokrumlovsku-kulovnici-a-utekl-Policie-zbran-stale-nenasla

Jelen ukradl myslivci na Českokrumlovsku kulovnici a utekl. Policie zbraň stále nenašla
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on November 27, 2020, 09:18:59 am
How should I go about updating my files? Are they backwards compatible or would I have to start a new game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 27, 2020, 12:18:18 pm
How should I go about updating my files? Are they backwards compatible or would I have to start a new game?

Mostly backwards compatible.

On specific situations you might need to do some save editing if you want to be completely on the party line. Like when they added more countries or when the drone AI acquisition got changed. But you are fine without making changes too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: 8mono on November 28, 2020, 07:59:48 am
This mod has destroyed my sleeping schedule as well as my expectations of what a mod can deliver... from underestimating a giant rat's ability to parry to watching a pig (I think it was a pig or some other farm animal) literally downing a werewolf, I am just amazed that you can fit all of these different factions and creatures without them feeling out of place (I was half expecting a xenomorph or a T-800 at some point)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on November 28, 2020, 01:12:44 pm
Well, he has metamorph and the original game's Cryssalid is pretty much the Xenomorph already.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: termidor on November 28, 2020, 08:11:32 pm
Well, I'm at November  1999 and things have go a little boring so it seems a good time to leave the game for a while. Overall I had a lot of fun but things started  to get less interesting  when the aliens started invading. Here is some general feedback, I hope that it can be useful:
General stuff:
- The state of the economy early game it's really good, but as the game progress  it becomes easier to manage until there is no real financial challenge. Part of the problem is how the council showers you with money, but gains from loot increases higher than expenses, specially  with all the UFO's around. I assume that it is one of the hardest thing to balance in the mod, but maybe unusable loot could be sold for less and the cuantities gained be smaller. Alternatively more advanced stuff could  be much more expensive,  so for example a Thunderstorm (love the art of it) requires  a bigger investment, specially  considering  that better weapons tend to increase gains.

- I can't see the point right now of having more than 4 bases. Limits on research buildings  do encourage to get more of them, but eventually  you get to a point  where you are researching everything  really fast. On the other hand the manufacturing nerf makes building  bases to get money useless (and you float in money anyways). While there is nothing  inherently  wrong with not filling all the bases slots, I think it is a great opportunity  to try some alternative things. For example bring back manufacturing bases but instead  of centered on producing alien tech for sale, make more advanced items require extra facilities. For example some planes should require  a wind tunnel facility, or the HWP should  require  a  foundry to make their armor. The idea being that while basic workshops can be useful  to supply your forces with ammo and grenades and basic equi, you will need to specialize  certain bases or make a factory base to get the better stuff. We already have something  similar in game with the rat breeding  facility, and I think it could  be beneficial  for the game to slow down the introduction  of new equipment.

- I do believe  that there should  be an option  to buy shards and that hybrid recruitment  should  be limited. On the first  point I screw up in my game by selling  the shards early on, but once I got some of then  I do not think they warrant such a limited supply. HWP comes with their pros and cons, but I believe that taking into account  transformations,  biological  beings make for a much better investment. As for hybrids,  I find strange that you can get them  from the black market  so easily.  Maybe a system similar to the one use by rats is preferable,  where you can recruit  imprisoned  hybrid agents, or build a building  (a contact network  for example) that allow to purchase them for a big price on the market.

- The use of sanity as a feature seems interesting,  but I have some problems with his implementation. For example, while the excellent  metamorph mission gives an opresive feeling (the one mission that actually unsettled me), assaulting  a large ufo fill with familiar enemies is somehow more taxing. Or for example assaulting the underwater factory gives the unspeakable  horror modifier yet all you face are things that seem normal in comparison to a standard  terror mission. I would  suggest that the mechanic  should  make more sense to the scenario  the agents are facing: Large ufos should  be hard to enter due to aliens camping inside then (side issue here, but I found it easier to attack then in the mod that in the final modpack because  there seemed to be less aliens inside then.  Maybe the alien turrets have something  to do with it?) while other missions should  be hard because  they sap your agents morale ie: attacking a zombie hive.

- Passive global detection shouldn't  be a thing, as it makes radar craft redundant. Considering  this type of craft leaves you without  a hangar slot, their usability  is really limited to justify  their price.
Enemy balance:
- The initial cults make for a quite entertaining  enemy, but i do have some suggestions. For starters Exalt and the Church could give better rewards, compare to the rewards of red dawn(bio and durathred) and black lotus (good psionic weapons and martial arts). From the church while the acid stuff is good, the other staff is less useful, and from Exalt the best thing you get is the Barret, and only because  they use American weapons. For the church of dagon I would actually  suggest using their hounds as an excuse to give bio enchantment  but for dogs, that could  actually  use some transformations. Exalt meanwhile could be use as a gateway for the heavy ballistic  suit, so that instead of getting  it at promo III, it is an advance prototype of one of the masters. I do believe some reward symmetry is desire so that favoring one over the other isn't  a suboptimal  choice per se. Also Exalt could pack some extra punch. While their enforcers are tough, in general  they are easier to fight than the Russians or the Black lotus. Maybe a mind control enemy could be nice, to spice things up.

- Nothing to say about Osirion as they fill their role, but I do have some issues with the Syndicate. The first one is with their final mission, which I do believe could have been much better if it was an undercover mission. As of right now it feels like the black lotus HQ but with no armor. Thematically it also doesn't  make much sense, as why use the impersonator if you are going to bring rocket launchers and psi weapons. It would  actually  be a nice change of pace if you need to win a big battle without  all the good stuff. Apart from changing the enemy composition,  I think the big building  map would be more fitting. The second issue I have with the is the final message you get from then. I don't  have a problem  fighting the original bad guys as they fit perfectly  for the mod and I do imagine that it is one of the next enemy, but the resolution  of the events leave, imo, much to be improved.  If the CEO are already established  to be from the even worse group  (I'm trying to avoid spoilers here and to not use a much more colorful vocabulary), why do you recieve a real life larping invitation  that you can not use at all? Shouldn't this be the moment where you can make a choice  as if you want to be an as***** that kills civilians by collateral fire or one bigger as***** that does it on purpose and actually undermines the Xcom project? Finally their big beefy troops(minotaur and the walker) would be nice if they give some extra tech. For the minotaur, and i don't  know if it is possible,  it could  be use to introduce sub-dermal armor, that would  be a transformation  that increase the armor of the agents by a few points. Alternatively  their macro flamer (that they refuse to use) could be a an entry point  for extra large weapon( I'm thinking here on some things from xpiratez). The ultimate  fantasy would be trainable  minotaurs with Greek names, but i think it is more fitting for a sub-mod. As for the walker a HWP base around it  could be a cool bonus.

- Overall  i quite like the underwater missions, as they do offer a change compare to land battles. My main gripe with then is in fact that the Ai can't make an effective  use of melee weapons and just stay away while being slaughter.  If it could be made to be more aggressive,  or alternatively  being given sonic weapons as a standard,  it would make for some interesting missions. The only one I didn't  enjoy was the factory  as it was a huge map with a heavy sanity penalty and it end up being a camper fest.

-Ciberweb and the X dimensions are mostly  fine. Minor  improvements  i would  make would  be to give the misticks a different color to distinguish them  from the technomads, that space tecnomads shouldn't  get a second life (why them are they wearing a suit  in the first place) and that there should  be more cover in dimension  X maps. This last point  becomes very apparent  in the fortress  assault  mission as it is either impossible  because  your door is facing the map or very easy if it is facing the border. More corver could  be done with hills and terrains features, and I do think it makes for a more interesting  combat.

-Hybrids and Advent make for a fine opponent although  some weapons (cough chem cough) could use a buff. Overall the hybrids missions make for a quite varied bunch, although  some of them become trivial with good armor (cyber)

- I already talked about  zombies before in that their missions  should  be more rewarding, but they do make for some interesting opponents.  Can't  talk about Shoog as I only cleared one mission. Also spiders are fine, although  the  stealh spider could get assassin levels of invisibility  and spiderweb definetly needs some uses

- I got some mixed feelings about  the cult.  While I absolutely  enjoy their missions due to the sheer absurdity they reach (I can't  imagine how it goes on superhuman with so many enemies ), they don't  pose a threat with advance armour and they actually  don't  makes to much sense as a Xcom enemy, considering  most if not all the situations they are involved  the army could  take care of it (I mean the outpost battle makes me imagine Waco but the SWAT having super soldiers) Also the amount of stat gains you can get from them can actually  be problematic,  as i can't  see a reason why I would like to end  their storyline if they make for the perfect training  target. I don't  know what could be done to beef them up as with their numbers better weapons could  quickly  turn problematic from a balance sense. Equipment  specialization  for each sub culture could  be nice, with some unique variants for them, but overall I can't  say what would  I do to make them harder.

- I don't  like the UAC storyline so far for two reasons. One their missions  feel like less interesting  versions of the Syndicate storyline with the exception  of the cavemen one. That last mission is so  BS. First and foremost,  it doesn't  make much sense to dress as cavemens if your plant is to kill the people guarding the cargo. Second while in general I would say UAC weapons are trash, facing twelve or so of those dude without  armor is a very steep difficulty, more so with concealed weapons and on a land rover. Also what you get from this storyline doesn't  seem worth it, considering  you can get their weapons from the cult. Overall  i would  change three things: For the cavemen mission, make it a concealed  mission where you faced some weak opponents (one or two UAC and some other cavemens)but you can only bring primitive weapons or the light pistol/spypistol (as they need more use). Second , that the UAC engineers  or staff should  give access to some unique  staff, be it craft systems, special ammo for their weapons and things alike. Finally, they should have some more personality  so that they don't  end up filling like discount Syndicate.

- Surprisingly,  the enemies I have the most problem with are the aliens. The main beef i have with them is that fighting  against  them feels absolutely independent  from the rest of the mod. While each enemy usually  have a storyline that you follow, aliens follow more or less the same model of operations of the final modpack. Also their entry completely changes the balance of power for the worse as UFO's are flying cash cows. Thus while I'am figthing a Syndicate  whose objectives i can't  understand  at all but at least have some progression,  the aliens just go with their battleships as if nothing happens on the ground. Wouldn't  make much more sense if they are integrated  in the general  storyline, and they appear once their other plots fail? Also the difficulty  of facing them  is a little disappointing (except etherals),  although  this has to do more with gun balance.

I'm going to leave it here for today as it is quite a wall of text. I don't  know if you will find any of this useful,  but considering  the amount  of effort  this mod has, is the least I can do. Also I can give my thoughts  on gun and armor balance on another post, although  that is going  to be much more practical.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2020, 12:09:29 pm
Hi Termidor, thanks for another detailed analysis.

- The state of the economy early game it's really good, but as the game progress  it becomes easier to manage until there is no real financial challenge. Part of the problem is how the council showers you with money, but gains from loot increases higher than expenses, specially  with all the UFO's around. I assume that it is one of the hardest thing to balance in the mod, but maybe unusable loot could be sold for less and the cuantities gained be smaller. Alternatively more advanced stuff could  be much more expensive,  so for example a Thunderstorm (love the art of it) requires  a bigger investment, specially  considering  that better weapons tend to increase gains.

This is something I have finally addressed in the (yet unreleased) 1.7. Namely I eliminated manufacturing for money, except from some limited materials. I don't know if it will be enough, we will see.

- I can't see the point right now of having more than 4 bases. Limits on research buildings  do encourage to get more of them, but eventually  you get to a point  where you are researching everything  really fast. On the other hand the manufacturing nerf makes building  bases to get money useless (and you float in money anyways). While there is nothing  inherently  wrong with not filling all the bases slots, I think it is a great opportunity  to try some alternative things. For example bring back manufacturing bases but instead  of centered on producing alien tech for sale, make more advanced items require extra facilities. For example some planes should require  a wind tunnel facility, or the HWP should  require  a  foundry to make their armor. The idea being that while basic workshops can be useful  to supply your forces with ammo and grenades and basic equi, you will need to specialize  certain bases or make a factory base to get the better stuff. We already have something  similar in game with the rat breeding  facility, and I think it could  be beneficial  for the game to slow down the introduction  of new equipment.

Well, vanilla X-Com allowed for 8 bases too, and I could never see why I'd ever need more than 3... ;)

Your idea is interesting, but I am not sure people would be interested in that. X-Com is a combat simulator, not a city builder, so developing manufacturing infrastructure probably wouldn't be popular. I'm more used to hearing the opposite - eliminate manufacturing, buy stuff from external suppliers.

- I do believe  that there should  be an option  to buy shards and that hybrid recruitment  should  be limited. On the first  point I screw up in my game by selling  the shards early on, but once I got some of then  I do not think they warrant such a limited supply. HWP comes with their pros and cons, but I believe that taking into account  transformations,  biological  beings make for a much better investment.

The entire reason why I went with alenium was because HWPs were phasing out organics in late game.

...and honestly, you sold the shards? You're joking, right? It's almost like selling the Tiny Drill in Piratez.

As for hybrids,  I find strange that you can get them  from the black market  so easily.  Maybe a system similar to the one use by rats is preferable,  where you can recruit  imprisoned  hybrid agents, or build a building  (a contact network  for example) that allow to purchase them for a big price on the market.

All I hear from players is that hybrids are weak, unattractive and available way too late. ;)

Having said that, I agree that some sort of recruitment system would be better than a straight purchase, but when I was adding this, it was not possible yet (I think). Also, I honestly don't know how to do it - some ideas would be welcome.

- The use of sanity as a feature seems interesting,  but I have some problems with his implementation. For example, while the excellent  metamorph mission gives an opresive feeling (the one mission that actually unsettled me), assaulting  a large ufo fill with familiar enemies is somehow more taxing. Or for example assaulting the underwater factory gives the unspeakable  horror modifier yet all you face are things that seem normal in comparison to a standard  terror mission. I would  suggest that the mechanic  should  make more sense to the scenario  the agents are facing: Large ufos should  be hard to enter due to aliens camping inside then (side issue here, but I found it easier to attack then in the mod that in the final modpack because  there seemed to be less aliens inside then.  Maybe the alien turrets have something  to do with it?) while other missions should  be hard because  they sap your agents morale ie: attacking a zombie hive.

I really don't think there is a difference between the FMP and the XCF concerning how many aliens are inside UFOs - I checked the some numbers and they seem aligned.

As for the general insanity issue, sorry but you haven't really proposed any improvement, or at least I don't understand what you want me to do. Can you specify maybe?

- Passive global detection shouldn't  be a thing, as it makes radar craft redundant. Considering  this type of craft leaves you without  a hangar slot, their usability  is really limited to justify  their price.

Er... what craft? How is any craft related to global detection? Please elaborate.

- The initial cults make for a quite entertaining  enemy, but i do have some suggestions. For starters Exalt and the Church could give better rewards, compare to the rewards of red dawn(bio and durathred) and black lotus (good psionic weapons and martial arts). From the church while the acid stuff is good, the other staff is less useful, and from Exalt the best thing you get is the Barret, and only because  they use American weapons. For the church of dagon I would actually  suggest using their hounds as an excuse to give bio enchantment  but for dogs, that could  actually  use some transformations. Exalt meanwhile could be use as a gateway for the heavy ballistic  suit, so that instead of getting  it at promo III, it is an advance prototype of one of the masters. I do believe some reward symmetry is desire so that favoring one over the other isn't  a suboptimal  choice per se. Also Exalt could pack some extra punch. While their enforcers are tough, in general  they are easier to fight than the Russians or the Black lotus. Maybe a mind control enemy could be nice, to spice things up.

The cults were never intended to be perfectly balanced, fgrankly I can't see the point.
Bio-enhancement for dogs would be good, but I don't think Gilldogs are relevant here, because they're not closely related to dogs. If anything, it should be the Bloodhounds.
And yeah, EXALT are kinda wussies, except for the enforcers. Early on their body armour poses some problems, but later they're meh. But considering that you don't need them for a normal armoured vest, I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to give them the improved version... I'd rather make it something else.

(...) but I do have some issues with the Syndicate. The first one is with their final mission, which I do believe could have been much better if it was an undercover mission. As of right now it feels like the black lotus HQ but with no armor.

Well yes, kinda. Both are unique missions, so I'm not too worried about them being partially similar.

Thematically it also doesn't  make much sense, as why use the impersonator if you are going to bring rocket launchers and psi weapons.

But why not? I honestly can't see how this doesn't make sense. It's not like Syyndicate people don't carry heavy weapons or use weird equipment (thought admittedly not often).

It would  actually  be a nice change of pace if you need to win a big battle without  all the good stuff.

But would you really be able to win against their Walkers and Minotaurs with infiltration gear only?

Apart from changing the enemy composition,  I think the big building  map would be more fitting.

All the rest of big Syndicate missions are in ofdfice buildings. Honestly I made this terrain specifically to break up the boredom (it's not used anywhere else).

The second issue I have with the is the final message you get from then. I don't  have a problem  fighting the original bad guys as they fit perfectly  for the mod and I do imagine that it is one of the next enemy, but the resolution  of the events leave, imo, much to be improved.  If the CEO are already established  to be from the even worse group  (I'm trying to avoid spoilers here and to not use a much more colorful vocabulary), why do you recieve a real life larping invitation  that you can not use at all? Shouldn't this be the moment where you can make a choice  as if you want to be an as***** that kills civilians by collateral fire or one bigger as***** that does it on purpose and actually undermines the Xcom project?

Admittedly I've been considering an option to align with these guys instead, but it would be so much work (as it would change a lot of things) that I shelved it. So the invitation now remains a teaser, or a piece of fluff.

Finally their big beefy troops(minotaur and the walker) would be nice if they give some extra tech. For the minotaur, and i don't  know if it is possible,  it could  be use to introduce sub-dermal armor, that would  be a transformation  that increase the armor of the agents by a few points.

No, the armour values come only from worn outfit, unfortunately. If it was otherwise, I'd certainly do something like you suggest.

Alternatively  their macro flamer (that they refuse to use) could be a an entry point  for extra large weapon( I'm thinking here on some things from xpiratez). The ultimate  fantasy would be trainable  minotaurs with Greek names, but i think it is more fitting for a sub-mod. As for the walker a HWP base around it  could be a cool bonus.

Both are possible, especially the walker. But should I make every robot in the game available as a HWP chassis? That's kinda excessive. :) (No really, this is a serious design problem.)

- Overall  i quite like the underwater missions, as they do offer a change compare to land battles. My main gripe with then is in fact that the Ai can't make an effective  use of melee weapons and just stay away while being slaughter.  If it could be made to be more aggressive,  or alternatively  being given sonic weapons as a standard,  it would make for some interesting missions. The only one I didn't  enjoy was the factory  as it was a huge map with a heavy sanity penalty and it end up being a camper fest.

No, I'm not going to hand out spacer technology to any Deep One peasant. But I can try to bump their aggression further. I'll do that.

-Ciberweb and the X dimensions are mostly  fine. Minor  improvements  i would  make would  be to give the misticks a different color to distinguish them  from the technomads, that space tecnomads shouldn't  get a second life (why them are they wearing a suit  in the first place) and that there should  be more cover in dimension  X maps. This last point  becomes very apparent  in the fortress  assault  mission as it is either impossible  because  your door is facing the map or very easy if it is facing the border. More corver could  be done with hills and terrains features, and I do think it makes for a more interesting  combat.

More hills would indeed be nice, but that's an issue with the desert as such. More maps are needed.

Space technomads get a second life because they're cyborgs and can withstand the atmospheric conditions on that planet for a limited time, but they're not enjoying this at all.

Technomads and mysteks looking the same as by design, because it's really a very egalitarian organization, which makes things harder for you.

-Hybrids and Advent make for a fine opponent although  some weapons (cough chem cough) could use a buff. Overall the hybrids missions make for a quite varied bunch, although  some of them become trivial with good armor (cyber)

Good :)

- I already talked about  zombies before in that their missions  should  be more rewarding

...working on it... sort of

but they do make for some interesting opponents.  Can't  talk about Shoog as I only cleared one mission. Also spiders are fine, although  the  stealh spider could get assassin levels of invisibility

And people say that I am a sadist?! :D

and spiderweb definetly needs some uses

Ypou mean, some more uses?

- I got some mixed feelings about  the cult.  While I absolutely  enjoy their missions due to the sheer absurdity they reach (I can't  imagine how it goes on superhuman with so many enemies ), they don't  pose a threat with advance armour and they actually  don't  makes to much sense as a Xcom enemy, considering  most if not all the situations they are involved  the army could  take care of it (I mean the outpost battle makes me imagine Waco but the SWAT having super soldiers)

What army? Certainly not a national army, because nobody would allow them there, or even acknowledge the existence of the cults. If you mean the Council forces, then well, the whole point of creating X-Com was to not involve them for politivcal reasons (cults have strong backers), and most of the Council expected X-Com to fail anyway.

Also the amount of stat gains you can get from them can actually  be problematic,  as i can't  see a reason why I would like to end  their storyline if they make for the perfect training  target. I don't  know what could be done to beef them up as with their numbers better weapons could  quickly  turn problematic from a balance sense. Equipment  specialization  for each sub culture could  be nice, with some unique variants for them, but overall I can't  say what would  I do to make them harder.

That's why I added special negative missions and events for when you're purposefully stalling cult termination. I think that's all that is needed.

- I don't  like the UAC storyline so far for two reasons. One their missions  feel like less interesting  versions of the Syndicate storyline with the exception  of the cavemen one. That last mission is so  BS. First and foremost,  it doesn't  make much sense to dress as cavemens if your plant is to kill the people guarding the cargo.

And why is that?

Second while in general I would say UAC weapons are trash, facing twelve or so of those dude without  armor is a very steep difficulty, more so with concealed weapons and on a land rover. Also what you get from this storyline doesn't  seem worth it, considering  you can get their weapons from the cult.

You don't go trhere for weapons, you go there to advance the plot.

Overall  i would  change three things: For the cavemen mission, make it a concealed  mission where you faced some weak opponents (one or two UAC and some other cavemens)but you can only bring primitive weapons or the light pistol/spypistol (as they need more use).

Boring!

Second , that the UAC engineers  or staff should  give access to some unique  staff, be it craft systems, special ammo for their weapons and things alike.

They do. Well, not the engineers themselves, but the entire UAC plot which they are a part of.

Finally, they should have some more personality  so that they don't  end up filling like discount Syndicate.

Good point, I realize this and hope to develop this gradually further.

- Surprisingly,  the enemies I have the most problem with are the aliens. The main beef i have with them is that fighting  against  them feels absolutely independent  from the rest of the mod. While each enemy usually  have a storyline that you follow, aliens follow more or less the same model of operations of the final modpack. Also their entry completely changes the balance of power for the worse as UFO's are flying cash cows. Thus while I'am figthing a Syndicate  whose objectives i can't  understand  at all but at least have some progression,  the aliens just go with their battleships as if nothing happens on the ground. Wouldn't  make much more sense if they are integrated  in the general  storyline, and they appear once their other plots fail? Also the difficulty  of facing them  is a little disappointing (except etherals),  although  this has to do more with gun balance.

Noted. Honestly I should make some actual plot arc for the aliens, but I don't know how to tackle this yet. Or more accurately, I'm busy with other parts. But I see what you mean.

I'm going to leave it here for today as it is quite a wall of text. I don't  know if you will find any of this useful,  but considering  the amount  of effort  this mod has, is the least I can do. Also I can give my thoughts  on gun and armor balance on another post, although  that is going  to be much more practical.

Yes, this is very useful, and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2020, 12:10:08 pm
Double-posting because over 20000 characters:

Version 1.7 has been released.
- New terrain: UAC Base (collab with Brain_322).
- New mission: UAC Aerospace Lab.
- New craft: Starfighter (by Alex D, slightly modified).
- New weapons: UAC Plasma Rifle, UAC Light Plasma Gun, KS-23M (graphics for all three by Brain_322), XM29 OICW (by Alex D and Brain_322), UAC Doomzone Chaingun (graphics converted from an unidentified Doom mod), Pancor Jackhammer.
- New units: UAC Space Marine, UAC Master Researcher (graphics for both by Brain_322).
- New Alien Base mapblocks.
- Crop Circles and Cattle Mutilation missions redone to use the new reinforcement mechanics.
- Rebalanced the prices on most items.
- Advanced Robotics can be acquired from functional Cyberweb robots.
- New Turbolaser Carbine handob (by Brain_322).
- Better AK-47 clip (by Brain_322).
- Added some missing allowed AI armor options to special environments.
- Added missing Red Dawn armour entries.
- Added floorob for the Rusty Blade.
- Added bigob to Female Casual (by Dioxine).
- Updated the script for flashbang grenade (by Finnik).
- Corrected Mac-10 clip size to 30 rounds.
- Some new firing sounds.
- Buffed some late game UFOs.
- CQC defense has a 50% chance to fail in case of surprise attacks.
- Faster gym training.
- Changed prerequisites for the Bio-Enhancement.
- Increased average starting stats on Hybrids.
- Less Boomers.
- Alien Agricultural Sabotage now punishes you also if you abort.
- Polished world regions (co-op with Dioxine).
- Better quality music on some Cult of Apocalypse missions.
- New MiB Commander graphics (by Brain_322).
- Removed black squares from "non-hand empty hand slots".
- Better Vietnam flag (by Kato).
- Fixed remaining glitches on Stormtrooper Armor.
- Fixed Bio resistance on Sectoids.
- Fixed wrong ammo on Colt Commando in enemy deployments.
- Added some missing weapons to Commendations.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: HT on December 02, 2020, 03:43:07 pm
Cool! Once I finish the in-game month I'm in, I'll give this a look. What does a "surprise attack" consists in for the CQC thing?
Also, I remember reading that Scout AIs no longer have smoke launchers. Is that true? If so, why? That removes their main utility, since for scouting doges are more expendable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: ZakG on December 02, 2020, 04:02:10 pm
Seconded Cool! (for the sudden 1.7 release).

And thanks to Termidor for that detailed analysis, and Solarius Scorch for replying with balance :)

I am still in my first game (circa 1997) of the mod, and have no real detailed feedback to give yet, other than i am loving it and finding it hard (even on easy!) as an X-com gamer from the Amiga days!

But at some point i will feel i have the experience of the mod to comment and post something constructive, because i feel Solarius Scorch you have here one of the best X-com games around in terms of a cohesive and believable storyline that leads upto the original game start.

My X-com life will certainly never be the same again ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 02, 2020, 07:50:25 pm
Cool! Once I finish the in-game month I'm in, I'll give this a look. What does a "surprise attack" consists in for the CQC thing?

Let me quote the ruleset reference:
Alien attacker can avoid CQC when xcom victim doesn't see the alien attacker. Xcom attacker can avoid CQC when all aliens (as a collective) were not aware of the xcom attacker during the previous and the current turn.

Also, I remember reading that Scout AIs no longer have smoke launchers. Is that true? If so, why? That removes their main utility, since for scouting doges are more expendable.

No, I haven 't removed the smoke launchers. Must be some misunderstanding (or a bug).

Also, thanks for the kind words, both of you guys!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: HT on December 03, 2020, 01:27:33 am
No, I haven 't removed the smoke launchers. Must be some misunderstanding (or a bug).

I think I remember reading a line which said something like "smoke launchers HWPs are a myth", as well as removing said smoke launcher for the scout chassis, but maybe I misunderstood that change.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: termidor on December 03, 2020, 03:32:21 am
Congrats on the new release ;). I suppose it ain't  compatible with 1.6 saves right?


This is something I have finally addressed in the (yet unreleased) 1.7. Namely I eliminated manufacturing for money, except from some limited materials. I don't know if it will be enough, we will see.


I actually  haven't  made any money out of manufacturing.  You could get a net positive  with UFO components  but I was swimming  in money by them. My main source was looting. I believe  that this part gets very unbalanced once  you reach 1999 and UFOs start flying around. Not only you do more missions, but the money you get from plasma weapons (that you aren't  going to use in a while) and UFO stuff is quite significant. I believe  I got 2M$ from selling 8 corpses+their weapons+ the components from a downed large scout. The second point of money is the council, that gives me much more than what I need to maintain  the base.

As I said I believe 1999 is when the problems come as before that it was a real struggle  to get everything  I wanted. I would  suggest the following changes:
- No score should  be given for retrieving common components, and much lower score for corpses. My scores though  1999 have all been insane, getting  over 10000 points in October which was mind breaking. You can clear a lot of missions with heavy casualties and still come up with very good scores. For example the underwater factory gives 2000 aqua plastics. That means that even if you lose all the squad except one, you are going to get an insane score anyways.It is already  hard to lose a  game,  but I do think that there should  be some tension  regarding your performance.
- In relation  to that, the council  should  give less money. As the intended objective  is to get going by loot, I don't  think it would  be too bad if you get less money than what you need for maintenance. Maybe higher maintenance  cost  for advanced buildings (Imp Lab) could  help.
- Less money from components and alien weapons. Considering  that earth governments  can't  use plasma, maybe a lower selling cost would make sense. Overall the idea should  be that you still make a profit, but less than what is currently  in game.


The entire reason why I went with alenium was because HWPs were phasing out organics in late game.

...and honestly, you sold the shards? You're joking, right? It's almost like selling the Tiny Drill in Piratez.
I can't  say I relate with this  8) And yeah I did a 4d chess move with the shards, as I wanted to boost my research as much as possible  early game. Kinda of shows that early on there  is a real tension in managing the resources  you got.

Having said that, I agree that some sort of recruitment system would be better than a straight purchase, but when I was adding this, it was not possible yet (I think). Also, I honestly don't know how to do it - some ideas would be welcome.
Actually  I do have two ideas. One would  be relatively  simple- add a building  (a radio station) - that after build allows to recruit  hybrid agents though  the manufacturing  screen. The requirements  to build  the station should  be easier than the rat breeding  grounds. Fluff wise, it could  be justified  as interfering  with the Hybrid chip so that it can be recruited.

An alternative proposition would  be to have a land survey system but for recruitment of mercenaries,  being much more expensive  than regular  agents and having higher salaries,  but with better initial stats. Hybrids could  come it in this system,  appearing  once you unlock them. It could  actually  make for an interesting  mechanism  if properly  balance, allowing for some unique troops for your squads. Ofc it would  require  much more work, so I see it more feasible  for a submod


As for the general insanity issue, sorry but you haven't really proposed any improvement, or at least I don't understand what you want me to do. Can you specify maybe?
Sanity loss should  be related to the mission type+the enemies you face. Attacking a cult HQ? Your troops  get a little nervous. Attacking a cult HQ with inhuman enemies? More stressful. Facing different  UFO types shouldn't  be more taxing the bigger they get as you are mostly  facing known enemies.However  a terror mission should  scare much more to  clear than say a battleship. 

Er... what craft? How is any craft related to global detection? Please elaborate.
The AWACS for example. I can't  see a reason to lose a hangar space to get one of this if I can get passive detection outside my radar range


But why not? I honestly can't see how this doesn't make sense. It's not like Syyndicate people don't carry heavy weapons or use weird equipment (thought admittedly not often).
Thank God they didn't bring their mind guided missiles to my fights :P. But on more serious  note, is to make things more different. Of course  the enemy  count  would  need to be balanced as well, maybe two CEO,a Minotaur and a Robot as the tougher  enemies. Also I proposed the map change because the current  mission  seems to favor camping from the spawn point too much, considering  all the blind point you get at the lower level and the amount of enemies you face (the same can be say on the Black Lotus Hq)

.

Both are possible, especially the walker. But should I make every robot in the game available as a HWP chassis? That's kinda excessive. :) (No really, this is a serious design problem.)

It was more a rule of cool suggestion  than anything  else. However  I don't  think there is a walker type HWP apart from the Sectopod, and that usually  comes much later in game. (That is until they appear on your base uninvited x)


And people say that I am a sadist?! :D
Considering  how much "fun" I had with those guys , I would  say I haven't  reach that level yet  ::) . The suggestion  mainly  come about  because  they are melee enemies (so they could  trigger a reaction shot ) and the spiders could  use some buffs later game (once you reach shogg they are a pushover).

Ypou mean, some more uses?
Yes, sorry, more uses . I didn't  notice they had a dependency. Still an early game use (I'm having a very silly idea of buildings throwable nets with then as a short range weapon) would  be nice.

 That's why I added special negative missions and events for when you're purposefully stalling cult termination. I think that's all that is needed.
  Hmmm maybe they could  reduce money apart  from score? As I said before score isn't  too much of a problem, and it gets compensated by clearing their missions .

And why is that?
Why would  you dress as cavemen if you intend to take their cargo by force anyways.  Wouldn't  make more sense to just dress in civilians  clothes instead?

Also two bugs in top of my head: you don't  seem to get access to the BS ammunition  for the HC at any point  in the game, and the focused sonic shotgun clip is unlocked by focused  sonic weapons, not the corresponding tech.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.6: Life Will Never Be The Same
Post by: tarkalak on December 03, 2020, 10:47:42 am
I think I remember reading a line which said something like "smoke launchers HWPs are a myth", as well as removing said smoke launcher for the scout chassis, but maybe I misunderstood that change.

You probably misread and misunderstood this bug report:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg134357.html#msg134357 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg134357.html#msg134357)

The problem there was that creating the AI was creating a Smoke Clip, that is an automatically refilled ammo, so the clip shouldn't have been there. The HWP smoke is working as before I believe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on December 03, 2020, 11:53:03 am
Less money from manufacturing might be bad for me. My saves will suddenly have the main source of income dried up. Oh well, at worst I can use save editing.


Actually  I do have two ideas. One would  be relatively  simple- add a building  (a radio station) - that after build allows to recruit  hybrid agents though  the manufacturing  screen. The requirements  to build  the station should  be easier than the rat breeding  grounds. Fluff wise, it could  be justified  as interfering  with the Hybrid chip so that it can be recruited.

An alternative proposition would  be to have a land survey system but for recruitment of mercenaries,  being much more expensive  than regular  agents and having higher salaries,  but with better initial stats. Hybrids could  come it in this system,  appearing  once you unlock them. It could  actually  make for an interesting  mechanism  if properly  balance, allowing for some unique troops for your squads. Ofc it would  require  much more work, so I see it more feasible  for a submod

There was a separate mod that did something like that: The Recruitment Office one. Sadly, it's no longer compatible for now. It allowed you to recruit agents with higher stats at an higher cost. Something like this could be repurposed to do the recruitment of mercenaries to get agents of wildly variable stats, but usually more powerful than regular recruits (aka the XFiles equivalent of the Freaks' recruitment from Piratez). A radio building used to recruit Hybrids is cool too, although hybrids appear late and with lower stats to boot. They have built-in psionics and a force-field, but that barely compensates their low experience.


You probably misread and misunderstood this bug report:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg134357.html#msg134357 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg134357.html#msg134357)

The problem there was that creating the AI was creating a Smoke Clip, that is an automatically refilled ammo, so the clip shouldn't have been there. The HWP smoke is working as before I believe.

That was it. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 03, 2020, 12:01:08 pm
Congrats on the new release ;). I suppose it ain't  compatible with 1.6 saves right?

Sure it is, why not?
Cases of incompatibility may happen depending on changes, but I always make a clear note about it and how to update your save. It's a rare occurrence anyway.

I actually  haven't  made any money out of manufacturing.  You could get a net positive  with UFO components  but I was swimming  in money by them. My main source was looting. I believe  that this part gets very unbalanced once  you reach 1999 and UFOs start flying around. Not only you do more missions, but the money you get from plasma weapons (that you aren't  going to use in a while) and UFO stuff is quite significant. I believe  I got 2M$ from selling 8 corpses+their weapons+ the components from a downed large scout. The second point of money is the council, that gives me much more than what I need to maintain  the base.

OK, understood. So this change wouldn't affect you, but it seems to be relevant to many other people.
Well, I also buffed some UFOs, maybe it'll help. Otherwise I'll address it again later.

As I said I believe 1999 is when the problems come as before that it was a real struggle  to get everything  I wanted. I would  suggest the following changes:
- No score should  be given for retrieving common components, and much lower score for corpses. My scores though  1999 have all been insane, getting  over 10000 points in October which was mind breaking. You can clear a lot of missions with heavy casualties and still come up with very good scores. For example the underwater factory gives 2000 aqua plastics. That means that even if you lose all the squad except one, you are going to get an insane score anyways.It is already  hard to lose a  game,  but I do think that there should  be some tension  regarding your performance.

Yeah, I guess you're right. It is not related to money, but indeed I should review corpses and components point rewards.

- In relation  to that, the council  should  give less money. As the intended objective  is to get going by loot, I don't  think it would  be too bad if you get less money than what you need for maintenance. Maybe higher maintenance  cost  for advanced buildings (Imp Lab) could  help.

I gradually raise maintenance for stuff, so maybe, yeah. I'll reconsider it again.

- Less money from components and alien weapons. Considering  that earth governments  can't  use plasma, maybe a lower selling cost would make sense. Overall the idea should  be that you still make a profit, but less than what is currently  in game.

I would like to come back to this after the latest changes settle in and gather some feedback.
 
I can't  say I relate with this  8) And yeah I did a 4d chess move with the shards, as I wanted to boost my research as much as possible  early game. Kinda of shows that early on there  is a real tension in managing the resources  you got.

Well, you can always get more from alien bases.

Actually  I do have two ideas. One would  be relatively  simple- add a building  (a radio station) - that after build allows to recruit  hybrid agents though  the manufacturing  screen. The requirements  to build  the station should  be easier than the rat breeding  grounds. Fluff wise, it could  be justified  as interfering  with the Hybrid chip so that it can be recruited.

It's a decent idea. However, two remarks:
1) What would be the manufacturing materials (if any)?
2) It would make recruiting hybrids even more costly than now, and I already keep hearing that they're not worth using. I don't really want to buff them, that would probably feel wrong.

An alternative proposition would  be to have a land survey system but for recruitment of mercenaries,  being much more expensive  than regular  agents and having higher salaries,  but with better initial stats. Hybrids could  come it in this system,  appearing  once you unlock them. It could  actually  make for an interesting  mechanism  if properly  balance, allowing for some unique troops for your squads. Ofc it would  require  much more work, so I see it more feasible  for a submod

Yeah, this idea is floating around, but I don't really want multiple soldier types without a really good reason to do so. I'll keep it as a last resort option.

Sanity loss should  be related to the mission type+the enemies you face. Attacking a cult HQ? Your troops  get a little nervous. Attacking a cult HQ with inhuman enemies? More stressful. Facing different  UFO types shouldn't  be more taxing the bigger they get as you are mostly  facing known enemies.However  a terror mission should  scare much more to  clear than say a battleship.

Fine, but it doesn't breing us any closer to "how". Environmental conditions are set by deployment, not race or any other such parameter. So I can't see how I can improve this part.

The AWACS for example. I can't  see a reason to lose a hangar space to get one of this if I can get passive detection outside my radar range

Yeah, that's true: I can't see the point either. I have no idea what to do about it, though; I don't want to remove the detection from intel labs, because it's kinda important for the ambience to have people sitting at cord phones and taking calls about UFO sightings, and I can't bring their efficiency below 1% because of how the engine works.

Thank God they didn't bring their mind guided missiles to my fights :P. But on more serious  note, is to make things more different. Of course  the enemy  count  would  need to be balanced as well, maybe two CEO,a Minotaur and a Robot as the tougher  enemies. Also I proposed the map change because the current  mission  seems to favor camping from the spawn point too much, considering  all the blind point you get at the lower level and the amount of enemies you face (the same can be say on the Black Lotus Hq)

Change to what? I don't have an endless trove of terrains to pick from. Even these two were shamelessly stolen from the 40k and reworked a little.
If camping is a problem, I'd rather consider some other measure. Hmm, maybe give them reinforcements which appear regularly near the lift (possible now)? But this would make capturing the facility much harder. Well, at least it would be different... :P

Simply limiting your equipment might make this mission too similar to other undercover missions.

It was more a rule of cool suggestion  than anything  else. However  I don't  think there is a walker type HWP apart from the Sectopod, and that usually  comes much later in game. (That is until they appear on your base uninvited x)

Okay, I'll consider it, but no promises. :)

Considering  how much "fun" I had with those guys , I would  say I haven't  reach that level yet  ::) . The suggestion  mainly  come about  because  they are melee enemies (so they could  trigger a reaction shot ) and the spiders could  use some buffs later game (once you reach shogg they are a pushover).

I see you're one of the players who want every mission to be hard. That's okay, but not everyone is like that, and XCF is already fairly elitist - I don't want to go even further in that direction.

Yes, sorry, more uses . I didn't  notice they had a decency. Still an early game use (I'm having a very silly idea of buildings throwable nets with then as a short range weapon) would  be nice.

I'm totally open to ideas here, but the implementation would be tricky. I'll think about it, maybe collab something with Dioxine if he's interested and it makes sense.

Hmmm maybe they could  reduce money apart  from score? As I said before score isn't  too much of a problem, and it gets compensated by clearing their missions .

A valuable idea. At least the events could do that.

Why would  you dress as cavemen if you intend to take their cargo by force anyways.  Wouldn't  make more sense to just dress in civilians  clothes instead?

No, because they expect cavemen, not some suspiciously generic folks.
(Of course it could be any other Apoc gang, but I chose Cavemen.)

Also two bugs in top of my head: you don't  seem to get access to the BS ammunition  for the HC at any point  in the game, and the focused sonic shotgun clip is unlocked by focused  sonic weapons, not the corresponding tech.

- The HC-BS ammo should be available for purchase together with the HC itself.
- The focused sonic shotgun clip production requires both the sonic shotgun tech and the focused fire tech.
Are these really not working as intended?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 03, 2020, 04:27:41 pm
How does the reinforcement system work ? I assume alot of missions will use them in future, for enemies and allies alike ? (If you are like fighting alongside military).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 03, 2020, 05:49:14 pm
How does the reinforcement system work ? I assume alot of missions will use them in future, for enemies and allies alike ? (If you are like fighting alongside military).

I don't know if it can be used for allies; probably not.

As for how it works, it's a pretty broad question... In short, under the deployment you define reeinforcement waves; when they appear, where they appear, who appears and what equipment they have.

EDIT: 1.7b has been released.
- Increased maintenance on advanced buildings.
- Cleaner Syndicate Walker sprite.
- Improved Laser Rifle bigob (by Brain_322).
- Fixed Starfighter manufacturing.

So yeah, mostly a standard post-release bugfix.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: 8mono on December 03, 2020, 11:41:08 pm
If bravery is trained by using healing items on others, and the healing sprays are also usable on yourself would that give you the bravery xp when healing yourself OR would it only give it when healing others?

Also, I really liked the shields for the armored and tritanium vests, is it possible to add the shields as standalones? as in you craft something like a "Fusion" Shield, same limitations as the other ones (Heavy, costly to equip and unequip and just being big and unwieldy) just equipable and unequipable at will and not really bound to an armor, the webwear comes to mind, just bound to your hand slot instead

Fantastic work on this mod, really liking the direction it takes in that it's not easy but it's not stupidly hard either!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 04, 2020, 11:33:56 am
If bravery is trained by using healing items on others, and the healing sprays are also usable on yourself would that give you the bravery xp when healing yourself OR would it only give it when healing others?

Healing spray never gives Bravery training. Putting spray on people just isn't "real medicine enough" to train your guts. :)

Also, I really liked the shields for the armored and tritanium vests, is it possible to add the shields as standalones? as in you craft something like a "Fusion" Shield, same limitations as the other ones (Heavy, costly to equip and unequip and just being big and unwieldy) just equipable and unequipable at will and not really bound to an armor, the webwear comes to mind, just bound to your hand slot instead

Shields are tricky, which is why they come in fixed versions (with armours) in the first place.
With the scripting language as developed as it is now, it's probably possible to make a standalone shield... But right now it's not within my competences, because I don't know the Yankes script language.

Fantastic work on this mod, really liking the direction it takes in that it's not easy but it's not stupidly hard either!

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: tarkalak on December 04, 2020, 12:06:55 pm
I don't know if it can be used for allies; probably not.

As for how it works, it's a pretty broad question... In short, under the deployment you define reeinforcement waves; when they appear, where they appear, who appears and what equipment they have.

EDIT: 1.7b has been released.
- Increased maintenance on advanced buildings.
- Cleaner Syndicate Walker sprite.
- Improved Laser Rifle bigob (by Brain_322).
- Fixed Starfighter manufacturing.

So yeah, mostly a standard post-release bugfix.

What about civilian waves on terror missions?

I mean, everyone wants to come see X-COM kill each other with friendly fire kick some aliens' butt and the chances of taking a plasma in the face are minimal, right? It is funnier than watching football.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on December 04, 2020, 07:05:16 pm
How does the reinforcements mechanic work in timed missions? After the time's up, you have to retreat before the sudden spawning of elite enemy units destroy you? Can you still win that mission by killing all of the new enemies, or do they keep showing up? Can you still pass the mission if you deal with the original objective (ie: dealing with the crazed farmer)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2020, 08:08:47 pm
Fine, but it doesn't breing us any closer to "how". Environmental conditions are set by deployment, not race or any other such parameter. So I can't see how I can improve this part.

I got an idea that maybe leads to something useful:
- Use a script hook to check which type of enemy is spotted.
- If the enemy is not researched yet, assume it is an unknown enemy. Now apply appropriate stress level. This solution requires that scripts can check for a research topic. I am unsure if that is supported right now, but if not maybe not too much of a hassle to add.
- I think it is possible to start the stress effect script on all soldiers off just one spotting an enemy.
- A script would also allow you to add a round counter that then increases or decreases stress levels if desired. For example, seeing no dangerous enemy for like 10 rounds could reduce stress a little if the scenario is appropriate.

Another use for scripts checking a research topic could be extra damage for known enemies (or damage penalty for having no research). You can even apply it only to certain weapons, short distances or facing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 05, 2020, 11:55:27 am
What about civilian waves on terror missions?

I mean, everyone wants to come see X-COM kill each other with friendly fire kick some aliens' butt and the chances of taking a plasma in the face are minimal, right? It is funnier than watching football.

Agreed, but looking at the feature, I doubt it's doable. I think nobody has ever proposed civilian reinforcements before. If you want this added, talk to Meridian here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5151.0.html), but be prepared to have strong arguments. :)

How does the reinforcements mechanic work in timed missions? After the time's up, you have to retreat before the sudden spawning of elite enemy units destroy you? Can you still win that mission by killing all of the new enemies, or do they keep showing up? Can you still pass the mission if you deal with the original objective (ie: dealing with the crazed farmer)?

I assume you mean this particular mission, not the reinforcements mechanics in general.
Yes, of course you can fight them, else what would be the point of the change?
As for mission objectives, they remain unchanged, you just get more enemies dropped on your head.

I got an idea that maybe leads to something useful:
- Use a script hook to check which type of enemy is spotted.
- If the enemy is not researched yet, assume it is an unknown enemy. Now apply appropriate stress level. This solution requires that scripts can check for a research topic. I am unsure if that is supported right now, but if not maybe not too much of a hassle to add.
- I think it is possible to start the stress effect script on all soldiers off just one spotting an enemy.
- A script would also allow you to add a round counter that then increases or decreases stress levels if desired. For example, seeing no dangerous enemy for like 10 rounds could reduce stress a little if the scenario is appropriate.

Another use for scripts checking a research topic could be extra damage for known enemies (or damage penalty for having no research). You can even apply it only to certain weapons, short distances or facing.

I have no idea if these things are even possible. If they are and someone is willing to code them, then please talk to me about possible implementations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on December 05, 2020, 03:27:04 pm
I assume you mean this particular mission, not the reinforcements mechanics in general.
Yes, of course you can fight them, else what would be the point of the change?
As for mission objectives, they remain unchanged, you just get more enemies dropped on your head.

Thanks for the answer! Still, the farm missions are the ones where reinforcements are most likely to show up. Can they show up in other missions, or is that feature not implemented yet? Having them show up in the middle of a terror attack sorta makes sense, not so much in a crashed UFO one, unless aliens had a teleporter lying around somewhere.

As for the mission objective, assuming you deal with the crazed farmer or whatever after the enemy waves show up, do you still have to retreat to the exit tiles, or does the mission automatically end and the new enemies retreat on their own? I haven't checked that one yet, so that's why I ask. A funny thing would be if the new enemies who are not KO'ed or dead count as captured, but I doubt it will be that easy.

Can the enemy waves spawn endlessly, or are they a fixed number? Does that depend on the mission in particular? Lastly, would difficulty level alter the number of enemies showing up?

That's all for now, thank you for your hard work.
I wonder if something like this could be done during base defense missions by having armed NPCs (ie: generic security forces) show up to help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 05, 2020, 05:34:48 pm
Thanks for the answer! Still, the farm missions are the ones where reinforcements are most likely to show up. Can they show up in other missions, or is that feature not implemented yet? Having them show up in the middle of a terror attack sorta makes sense, not so much in a crashed UFO one, unless aliens had a teleporter lying around somewhere.

It's not used in any other mission yet. I do have some plans, but nothing is done yet.

Having the aliens appear in terror mission is also kinda controversial - there aren't that many on a single Terror Ship... But I get what you mean.

Perhaps a good idea would be to enable it on Moon missions and Cydonia, but I'd have to change mission objectives on the Moon to something else than "kill all".

As for the mission objective, assuming you deal with the crazed farmer or whatever after the enemy waves show up, do you still have to retreat to the exit tiles, or does the mission automatically end and the new enemies retreat on their own? I haven't checked that one yet, so that's why I ask. A funny thing would be if the new enemies who are not KO'ed or dead count as captured, but I doubt it will be that easy.

If there are enemies on the map, the battle continues. If there aren't any, the battle ends. That's all.

Can the enemy waves spawn endlessly, or are they a fixed number? Does that depend on the mission in particular? Lastly, would difficulty level alter the number of enemies showing up?

You can do all that, depending on what you need.

That's all for now, thank you for your hard work.

Thanks, much appreciated!

I wonder if something like this could be done during base defense missions by having armed NPCs (ie: generic security forces) show up to help.

As far as I know you can't do it with non-enemies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: WaldoTheRanger on December 06, 2020, 07:25:53 am
Hello again. Loving the new additions.
Just wondering, cause I'm somewhat wierd about this kind of thing, when was the last time you updated the progress-o-meter for the arcs? it looks like it hasn't changed for awhile, and yet the uac seems to be a thing now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 06, 2020, 11:06:44 pm
Hello again. Loving the new additions.

Nice, thanks!

Just wondering, cause I'm somewhat wierd about this kind of thing, when was the last time you updated the progress-o-meter for the arcs? it looks like it hasn't changed for awhile, and yet the uac seems to be a thing now.

I'm considering UAC to be a part of the Apoc arc (which may or may not be correct). But I admit I rarely remember to update this...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: termidor on December 07, 2020, 08:10:37 pm
Okay as promised here is the second part of my suggestions.  I will try to keep it short and precise
Technology:
- Overall I retract from my previous  statement where there aren't  enough  techs, there are in fact a lot of them  ;D However  you can be blocked from important one by bad Rng as you need to farm captives to get them. One thing I would change is the current progression of 5 different  techs > alien vocabulary > the good stuff, to divide things more. For example, instead of having the toxi suit after the toxi-gun, have it behind alien chemistry that currently only serves for vocab. In the same vein, some stuff could be move it to promotion I in case you can't fill all the vacancies for advisors. I can't  say anything  too concrete,  but having a more diverse tech tree instead of relying on a few important  techs could  make the game better, specially  if the player want to play with "blind research".

- Promotion  Three prerequisites could change. While maintaining  deep ones communities and alien language,   I would change cyberweb portal to a previous  cyberweb tech and Into the dark to Hidden caves. The rationale being that you can get Deep ones communities much faster than any of the other options. While I see alien origins  as a failsafe, the current setup have a very optimal path of going after the dagon church to get deep ones than trying anything else. I do think that promo III should  come soon after defeating  a cult, as an important  step up to face better armed enemies.

- Navigators could probably  be able to tell more about different  UFO types, at least at the same level of engineers. They shouldn't  become useless so quick.

-I don't  know if it is possible, but staff input should  only be choose  as an option if there is nothing  important  that  the prisoner  can tell you. They are fun fluff bits, but they can keep you out of key research and can be bypass by just keeping non-important prisioner around just to game the system, which feels like gaming the system  more than anything else.

Overall  I like the tech system  and I feel that, except  some exceptions, it is in a good place.
Craft systems;
-two small issues here: the avalanche  is still the top weapon, and mass driver cannon is much better than the other cannons. For the first point, apart from the range, heavy missile platforms usually  carry excessive  ammo for their firerate: if facing a passive ufo you want the avalanches range without  doubt, and against  hunter-killers your cannons are going  to end up doing most of the job. Heavy missile systems like the heavy stingray or the heavy storm Lance could get faster firing to make them more useful  against  targets that try to shut you down. As for the mass driver cannon, it's stats are simply to good compared to the previous  cannons. I do think it should  be an upgraded,  but not such a powerful one.

Armour:
- I like the way things are balanced around in the early- middle part of the game with the armored  vest, the shield and the heavy suit, each having their ups and downsides. The only armor I would  give a stat boost is the Jumpsuit  to make it more appealing  to recruits (maybe a firing accuracy  bonus or a small TU boost) so as to make it more preferable  than the starting suit (either one of them offer  minimal protection  anyways).

- However I do think the mid-late armors could use some rebalance, specially  the personal armour and the Cyber armor, as the specialist  armors are fine (aqua suit, toxi, flying). The problem I see is that the cyber armor over shadows the personal armor in almost every way. Sure it has less plasma protection percentage  but you are most likely to be damaged on a personal armor (needs 53.33 to be pierced  compared to the 60 of the cyber) and if you are hit with bigger weapons you are probably fuck anyways due to how nasty plasma is in the mod. Not to mention that against most common threats (including  alien laser weapons) is better to be using a cyber armor than a PA. When this is computed, even the alloy vest compare favorably  against  it. The cherry on top is that the cyber armor boost reactions, so it becomes apparent  that it is a non-brainer to give all your troops this armor. I would suggest two changes: buff the personal armor to at least alloy vest protection  levels, maybe with 70% plasma protection , while making the cyber armor a heavy armor  choice that while boosting  firing accuracy,  have a lower energy recovery rate, is heavier and give less TU. I do think the ciber should  give better overall  protection,  but the PA should  have it's  uses.

-On the topic of armor, could armor recovery  require two sets of dead bodies instead of one? I must say I'm  not a fan of this as a concept as I feel it makes player losses less costly  for certain  armors that you are going  to be using anyways. In line with the economic  changes I talk about, more expenses would be welcome, so that you can't just replace every armor you lose cheaply.  Alternatively,  it could  be a process  only available  for cheaper, worse armors, so as to make a difference  between  expendable  outfits and expensive  ones.

- One minor thing, but should advanced dog armor have it's  energy recovery  be independent  from their current  sanity level

-I'm not going to comment  on more advanced  suits, but i do hope that more advanced  versions aren't  dependent  on synth-muscle, as they are just locked away by RNG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: termidor on December 07, 2020, 08:11:23 pm
Weapons:
- There is a lot to unpack here so I will try to divide my suggestions  into arbitrary  groups that I hope that make sense. I will also make individual  suggestions  when needed

 Melee weapons:
  -To start with, I would  suggets changing their damage rolls to a 50-150 spread instead of the current  0-200. Considering that units have a melee dodge chance, and that charging is a risky endeavor, I think that consistency in damage   should  be a given. Considering also that some weapons already have it while other do not (for example compare the knife with its  tritanium version) it would also help rationalize (I hate this word) the combat system.

- I think it would  be good if knifes accuracy  was determined  by 50+0,5 formula. From what I know knifes are easier to use than swords, but right now in game they are only truly useful  on soldiers with martial  arts training that can hit their targets.  I do also feel that the electric club is a too dominant  choice for a melee backup weapo, being more effective  than other melee in taking down opponents,  making it an almost no brainer. An alternative  melee weapon for it would  be welcome. Also their power bonus could  be changed to 0,1 reactions + 0,1 melee accuracy.  I do think that skill bonus in general  should  be tone down a bit and make base damage  more important   with a few exceptions for two reasons: to make weapon obsolescence  more important  and to  make elite warriors a bit more balanced. I do think that stat bonus damage  leads to a double accounting  problem where weapons do not only hit more often, but do often double damage in the process. Melee weapons  are the more clear example where two transformations  make the difference  between having to engage  an enemy  with multiple  units to bring it down to clear a whole UFO with a katana and a knife.
- Some concrete  balance changes would  be: lower the weight  of the combat knife to 3, make the tonfa use the 50+ 0,5 accuracy, buff the chitin knife to the level of others knifes , the axes should  probably  be two handed weapons and have lower strength bonuses, the pitchfork  could do cutting damage, and the pickaxe could use normal  wepon mechanics now that they can hit terrain.
-  I 'm going to include here the laser cutter as I feel it needs a buff, as taking a hammer for demolition  is normally  a better idea, being  able to do similar  damage, and being much more multipurpose. Maybe it could  be remained as an anti-large weapon such as the sectopod for base defense missions with a lower TU cost and better CQC accuracy

Traditional  weapons:
-Throwing  Knifes could use some base damage but get less damage bonus. They are a strange weapon in that they are practically  useless  below 70 accuracy  but at 100 they do some very serious  damage. I think it would  be preferable  if they had a lower skill factor to make them a better weapon to train throwing  ability  with. Also the aimed shot could cost more but have more effective  range while having a similar  acc to the snap shot: right now there is little reason to use the snap.
-Crossbows could be a single shot option  but do more damage. I don't know if it would  be possible to have stackable  items in the inventory,  but it is strange for them to have the same firerate of a sniper rifle. Also the harpoon  launcher is already a single shot weapon that gets completely  outclassed  by these weapons. Also their tritanium  arrows could probably  be at 36 damage to make them  more in line with other tritanium  ammo.
- The heavy Xbow should  be heavier, but do much more base damage than the normal Xbow while having the same bonus as the normal version(make it a heavy cannon version of it). Xbow doesn't get their strength from the user directly,  so it is strange to see it so reliant of it. Ideally,  it should  be closer to the gas cannon in base damage to make the choice of heavy underwater weapons more interesting (right now while the Xbow scales better, the gas cannon two snap shot in one turn make it more useful).
- while talking  about  underwater  weapons, the harpoon  launcher could  use a buff, as rigth now is a complete joke. First,  the max range needs to go: it doesn't make sense that other weapons doesn't  have it while the harpoon  launcher is impaired  by the laws of physics.  Secondly,  it could  use a damage buff to rifle levels, and maybe get a 0,1 firing accuracy  bonus like the xbow. Finally  the HE round could do damage similar to the tritanium  one. Considering underwater  units usually  have good concussive resistance , the current  round is close to useless. The balance  could  be that the Xbow is more accurate,  but the Launcher more hard hitting. Also if the xbow keeps their quiver clips, I think the harpoon launcher could use the same treatment.

Firearms general:
-Weapon damage mainly come from their weapon calibre. There are plenty  of examples of weapons firing the same round yet having different  damage values. For example the glock,Beretta and the Uzi or the Colt,the Tommy and the Mac10. This more a realism argument  than a gameplay  one although  I do think some of this weapons deserve a buff (Uzi at 20 is a joke, the colt could use a bit more damage).
Early gun balance:
- Overall i quite like the balance early on, as there are many options and you are quite dependent on what your enemies bring to the table. I would however  make two changes: The calico could use SMG rate of fire (I will propose a 3x snap an a 6x auto) as rigth now it is a very poor weapon choice, and the Nitro express  could use a higher base damage but a lower power bonus. It shoots a big round, where it hits should  make such a difference.  Treating it as a Sniper weapon may not be a bad idea

- Another change I would  suggest is to make the 7.62 Nato rifles do more base damage rather than to rely  on a power bonus. More accurate  users already  benefit  from hitting the target more time anyways, and it is kinda of unnecessary.  I would  suggest a 34 damage round and also that it fires slower, maybe at a 30% snap minimum

- Continuing  with the rifles, maybe it wouldn't  be a bad idea to have the similar calibre rifles to have the same stats and their choice be mostly  cosmetical, and be balanced against  each other caliber. So for example the 5.56 could fire fast ( a 20% snap) and be relatively  accurate  but have lower damage, the 7.62 WP fire slower (a 25% snap) and have lower acc but hit harder and the 7.62 nato fire slower (a 30% snap), be terrible at auto shooting but have the best stopping power. I do think this would  make the choice similar (because  there are rifle better than others at each category) while allowing  the player to choose the rifle they like the most.

-One weapon I would  slightly  nerf is the P-90 as it is too good rigth now. It combines a good ammo capacity, very good armor piercing for its  class and good accuracy.  It practically  outclasses every 5.56 rifle, and it is probably  the best rookie weapon even when black ops enter the game. I would be catious here and suggest that it's  damaged be reduced  to 22 like others SMG and it's  armor piercing  to 85%. In return I think a 5 burst auto could be good (in fact most smgs could get higher burst amounts) to make it better at CQC.

-Some minor changes would be: Bolt action should get the same accuracy  modifiers as the Nagant, the SVD should be treated as a sniper weapon when it comes to its  accuracy,  the PKM could use a 2 round snap shot at 30 % TU.

- The HMG could get a 2 round shot.  Rigth now it is a weapon that you don't  want to be using most of the time, as it requires  a lot of patience  to use, and it is either a gross overkill, or a lottery machine with the way points. I feel that a snap shot option could  make it less situational, as more situations  were you want to use it a minigun would  work as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: termidor on December 07, 2020, 08:12:18 pm

Mid game:
- Here there is much more to talk about as the weapons could be both divided by categories or features. I will try to talk about each weapon category but in some occasions  talk about whole weapons groups

- About pistols I can see two issues: the first one related to the balance between  magnun weapons and the standard pistols and on the second point  to the smart pistols.  On the first point,  magnun weapons fall short compare to standard  pistols mainly due to their poor armor performance. Sure they do more damage, but the final difference  is usually  not that big. Considering  their ammo clip size and their weight, they bring few advantages  to the table. Even the smart magnun  fall short as it quickly  runs out of ammo. The change I would make is to take out the armor penetration malus from this weapons, so their shots are more effective  against  the foes you usually  encounter.  About the smart pistol, the problem  is that it  simply  too good. Not only it completely overshadows the normal black ops pistol, is so good that it is even better than the later laser pistol.  I propose here two changes:make it heavier, 10 units of weight while loaded, and make it a little bit less accurate,  maybe 85% and 90%. It would  still be good, but the heavier weight specially  could  balance it a bit.

Smg
-The black ops smg could  get some armor piercing,  maybe 85% as the proposed P90 change, to make it a bit more viable. It currently  fall behind most other weapons for CQC
 - The Uac Smg could  be buffed as rigth now it is like a black ops rifle but worse. Better accuracy  would be welcome, and a larger magazine  could also prove helpful.

Pulse weapons
- I think pulse weapons are an interesting  bunch. I do think that the LMG loaded with chem rounds is actually  a competitive weapon in the hands of accurate soldiers due to the power accuracy  bonus, but overall  they do feel a bit lackluster due to their accuracy  and their weigth. I would  propose five changes: make them more  accurate,  at the level of their competitor black ops weapon, make the tritanium ammo do extra hp damage (it can be justify as using tritanium as shards) like the ceramic round, make them fire slower, a small base damge buff for the pistol and  finally make the chem round a single buller but with very good damage (for example 60 with the rifle) while removing the accuracy power bonus. I think that better accuracy would help a lot these weapons, but should  be balanced with a lower firerate. To compensate,  higher stoping power could help a lot. As for the chem rounds, they only currently  work on the LMG because  they have good base damage.  I feel a single shot would be better as it would allow this weapon to also work against enemies  with a moderate  amount of armor, and make for an actual  chem line of wepons (as the chem guns and the canister are more special types). The chem shotgun ammo could actually  be recycle for the Thrasher  shotgun,to add more variety  to the mix.

Rifles
- With that said about pulse weapons, I think rifle selection could be improved. Rigth now we have the 2 black ops rifles, the UAC one, the Smart rifle and the pulse rifle. Currently  the smart rifle is the superior  option ,as it overperform the normal black ops rifles, the pulse rifle have it's issues and the UAC rifle is a joke. Keeping the line established with the previous  line of rifles, I would  suggest  changing  the smart rifle ammo to do less damage but be armor piercing. I would suggest a 24 damage normal bullet and a 32 tritanium one, making the maximum  damage of the auto equal to the one of an auto burst from an assault, and with a 90% AP damage. My idea here is that the smart rifle shouldn't  overperform completely  the previous  rifles, and while superior,  to have situations  were a normal rifle might work better.

- In relation to the Uac rifle, a more accurate  snap shot would help a lot. An auto setting  could also be nice. Also applying to the pistol, a lower shotgun spread would make them far more competitive. These weapons aren't  stated to be shotguns, so their bullets should  probably  land closer together than the current  behavior
Shotguns:
- Some minor changes i would make would be: get the tritanium  shotgun shell do 55 damage like the CAWS clip; make the UAC shotgun fire quicker to maybe 30% snap, 65% aimed;  and increase  the reload cost of the Thrasher  to 15 or 20 TU, as it can shoot very quick for such a good weapon.
-  I feel like the auto could get a much faster firerate. Considering  rigth now the only advantage  it has is an auto setting, and lacking slug rounds, even the standard black ops shotgun seem like a better deal. I would  argue to get it armor piercing dart rounds, but I think a two round snap shot an a 4 shot  auto could improve it a bit. I feel like the two round snap is could be enough  buff.
- The smart shotgun is a bit underwhelming, considering  it is supposed  to be one of the most advanced  shotguns. While accurate and fast firing, it has a bad shotgun ammo (worse than the saw off) and needs to be shooted with two hands, while being worse than a CAWS as a main shotgun choice. I would  make three changes:make it lighter,  remove the one hand penalty and finally reduce the pellets spread. I could see this weapon working as a secondary  weapon, specially  for undeecover missions, rather than being a main weapon candidate.

Sniper rifles:
- I think that giving sniper rifles all the same power bonus could help. The barret for example is a best weapon than the standard black ops sniper rifle with tritanium ammo thanks to his bigger power boost and better armor piercing. Other example is the PSG 1, that gets less damage boost than the .308 cal while being harder to aim, or the tactical sniper getting even less bonus, with the concusive round getting a very low 10%. Considering  that you need to be using accurate  soldiers with this rifles due to the acc^2 formula, I think their power bonus should  be the same and then have their base damage balanced around it. I think it could help for things like the barret that keeps being effective most of the game.

-One weapon i would change is the auto sniper, as i fell is underwhelming  compare to his  bolt action brother. The issue i see here is that it shoots as quickly  as the normal rifle while being  more or less just as accurate.  The auto setting i feel is not that great, usually  missing rounds. I would change it to be more of a marksman rifle, with a 35% snap shot, more accurate  auto setting  and removing the minimum  range, with a less powerful  power bonus. A better rifle for gun an running,  but less for stationary combat.

- One thing that caught  my attention  are the accuracy  knnel bonuses and the accuracy  drop on these weapons, as I feel they are a bit arbitrary. Maybe they could be revised,  as they are factors that make an impact  but they  don't  become apparent  very quickly  (for example the barret snap shot Is more accurate  than the standard  rifle one when kneeling).
LMG:
- Here i would make a big change and make the assault LMG different  than other two LMG. In the cult arms tier there are lmg(the fn minini) and heavy mg (the Mg3) and i think this distinction  should be maintained.  The assault  lmg should focus on more mobile tactics, being more accurate  on the standing and shooting more bullets, while the LMG (which should be renamed ) and the smart gun should be better at kneel shooting and have more range. Ideally the blance should  be miniguns for close range, assault lmg for being multipurpose  and the MG/smartgun for static positions.
Heavy weapons:
- the light cannon could get a slight accuracy  boost as rigth now is more in accurate than either the auto cannon or the assault  cannon while being weaker. Overall it is a weapon I like quite a lot due to it's  versatility,  but it's  lackluster  accuracy  makes it go obsolete  rather fast

- The sonic heavy cannon should weigth less, as with the focused clip it weigths a staggering  amount of 64 weigth units, making it impractical  to use it in battle. A weight  more in line with other heavy weapons would probably  make more sense , maybe at 48 weigth when fully loaded.

- The cyber web normal weapons (the Ionizer, the Ion blaster and the lightning  thrower) need to be more accurate  and fire slightly  faster. While their X dimension arsenal is fine, their earth weapons usually  only fire once per turn and completely  miss their target.  Being also quite heavy, their use by Xcom is difficult  to justify
Exlosives:
- The same i said to melee weapons apply here: there needs to be more consistency. Damage spread depends on damage type, so while concussive  grenades do more consistent  damage, plasma ones can either miss completely  or do double damage. I do think all explosions should be ruled by the 50-150 formula, due to the nature of the attacks involved. Different  damage types are already  a big point of using different  grenades/missile/shell  types, but i don't  think having 0-200 ones mixed with 50-150 ones are good for balance.

- About  missile  launchers,  one I find in a bad position is the multi-launcher. This weapon is more of a competitor of the auto cannon than the normal missile launcher, with very few advantages  and one big flaw in it's ammo weigth.  Also the lack of power of its  missiles means that is usually  a best idea to bring a normal missile launcher for longer  range support.  I think a lower missile pack weigth could help, along with an accuracy  in the lines of the other launchers.

- The advanced missile launcher should  only be used for mind guided missiles. The current setup allows for troops to take reaction shoots with this missile type. The E-115 missile should  in turn go to the normal mssile launcher, as a final upgrade to it

- The auto mortar should be what his name imply.  The current accuracy  model 70 %*0,75*300% makes it perfectly  accurate  at any range, which for a weapon that usually  one shoots any targets it hits, is mind boggling.  I would  prefer if the weapon had the same accuracy  of the normal mortar but having a two round magazine  that could be auto fire with way points.

-Should shrapnel  weapons leave fire after hitting? I do think that this type of weapon already  overperform  over normal concussive weapons, but the extra fire seems unnecessary.  Considering  also that cutting  is a better weapon damage type than concussive  when it comes to enemy resistances, i think that the extra blast radius of this weapons is not very balanced.

Chemical weapons:
- I think this weapons deserve  the two roll system considering  the nature of their attack. Acid could probably  splash in the case of the canister gun or cover a wide area in case of the chemo gun, so even near misses could still do damage.

- Speaking of the chemo gun, a lower TU use would help it a lot. Being a weapon with such a close range, the rather high TU usage of 65% makes it impractical  to use in more situations,  specially  compare to a minigun,  as you will expose your agent to just use it one. I think this weapon has more in common with the flamethrower, and it should be better suited for close assult use.

Flame weapons
- the last big change i would  proposem I think most of this weapons should  stop using the vanilla damage effect and use a 50-150 formula. Most napalm ammo already  work like this, so it would  make sense that the night ligther incendiary rocket worked this way. As for the flamer, the current utility  of the weapon is rather limited as enemies would usually  survive a full auto shot from it. Hilariously it seems to work better against  4 tile units like sectopods, ignoring  their armor and doing 4 times the damage. I think that having it do direct damage would  make more sense, increasing  drastically  it's utility for it's  intended role against  soft targets.

I'm going to leave it here because  I have write quite enough  already 8) One last suggestion,  make handcuffs  be usable with one hand rather than requiring  two, as they are quite limited  as they are rigth now.

Ps I may have overdid by quite a big margin lol
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: tarkalak on December 08, 2020, 04:44:39 pm
Agreed, but looking at the feature, I doubt it's doable. I think nobody has ever proposed civilian reinforcements before. If you want this added, talk to Meridian here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5151.0.html), but be prepared to have strong arguments. :)

Meridian is notoriously unwilling to do features suggested by non-modders. Which is completely understandable, why bother to do something that will never be used.

So the only strong argument will be that it would be used by somebody.

I can imagine having a terror mission during a parade. And a wave after wave of parade formations showing up on the street. :)
Or a bunch of hunter showing up to hunt Strange Creatures.

... I do also feel that the electric club is a too dominant  choice for a melee backup weapo, being more effective  than other melee in taking down opponents,  making it an almost no brainer.
...

It has alternatives. The wooden club and the Tonfa both do similar damage and have similar capabilities, but different bonuses. The Iron Pipe is also similar, but it does more lethal damaged, causes wounds and is heavier.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 08, 2020, 06:35:58 pm
Holy...
Wow, what an essay. I'll try to address all your points, so apologies in advance for being lapidary.

For example, instead of having the toxi suit after the toxi-gun, have it behind alien chemistry that currently only serves for vocab.

Good idea, will help avoid empty techs. I just hope the suit won't appear too late.

In the same vein, some stuff could be move it to promotion I in case you can't fill all the vacancies for advisors. I can't  say anything  too concrete,  but having a more diverse tech tree instead of relying on a few important  techs could  make the game better, specially  if the player want to play with "blind research".

Agreed, but these specific bottlenecks are kinda central to the design. Also, let's be honest, getting Promotion II is easy.

- Promotion  Three prerequisites could change. While maintaining  deep ones communities and alien language,   I would change cyberweb portal to a previous  cyberweb tech and Into the dark to Hidden caves. The rationale being that you can get Deep ones communities much faster than any of the other options. While I see alien origins  as a failsafe, the current setup have a very optimal path of going after the dagon church to get deep ones than trying anything else. I do think that promo III should  come soon after defeating  a cult, as an important  step up to face better armed enemies.

But presenting proofs of alien civilizations plotting against us is the only way to get access to military stuff.
What could be done is dividing Promo III into two parts: III and IV, but I'm not sure it's really worth the work.

- Navigators could probably  be able to tell more about different  UFO types, at least at the same level of engineers. They shouldn't  become useless so quick.

OK, I'll add some more ships, but not all of them.

-I don't  know if it is possible, but staff input should  only be choose  as an option if there is nothing  important  that  the prisoner  can tell you.

Possible (with lots of work) but undesirable. Half of its role is tormenting the player.

-two small issues here: the avalanche  is still the top weapon, and mass driver cannon is much better than the other cannons. For the first point, apart from the range, heavy missile platforms usually  carry excessive  ammo for their firerate: if facing a passive ufo you want the avalanches range without  doubt, and against  hunter-killers your cannons are going  to end up doing most of the job. Heavy missile systems like the heavy stingray or the heavy storm Lance could get faster firing to make them more useful  against  targets that try to shut you down. As for the mass driver cannon, it's stats are simply to good compared to the previous  cannons. I do think it should  be an upgraded,  but not such a powerful one.

the problem is that it competes with the laser cannon and should be stronger than this (due to poorer range and slower rate of fire). If at all, I think the entire air combat balance should be redesigned at once.

- I like the way things are balanced around in the early- middle part of the game with the armored  vest, the shield and the heavy suit, each having their ups and downsides. The only armor I would  give a stat boost is the Jumpsuit  to make it more appealing  to recruits (maybe a firing accuracy  bonus or a small TU boost) so as to make it more preferable  than the starting suit (either one of them offer  minimal protection  anyways).

It's already absolutely pummelling the suit by stats, mobility and camouflage. Your sentence completely ignored that... :P

- However I do think the mid-late armors could use some rebalance, specially  the personal armour and the Cyber armor, as the specialist  armors are fine (aqua suit, toxi, flying). The problem I see is that the cyber armor over shadows the personal armor in almost every way.

Well, it's your opinion. And it's rather popular. But I've also heard a lot about how the Personal Armour is godly and Cyber Armour pointless, so I guess I'm foing the balance right in this case. ;)

BTW, Personal Armour can't have as much armour as the alloy vest and keep the better mobility.

-On the topic of armor, could armor recovery  require two sets of dead bodies instead of one? I must say I'm  not a fan of this as a concept as I feel it makes player losses less costly  for certain  armors that you are going  to be using anyways. In line with the economic  changes I talk about, more expenses would be welcome, so that you can't just replace every armor you lose cheaply.  Alternatively,  it could  be a process  only available  for cheaper, worse armors, so as to make a difference  between  expendable  outfits and expensive  ones.

Possible to do, and I'm not against it on principle; I need to think of this.

- One minor thing, but should advanced dog armor have it's  energy recovery  be independent  from their current  sanity level

You could say the same about human powered suits... We must draw the line somewhere.

-To start with, I would  suggets changing their damage rolls to a 50-150 spread instead of the current  0-200. Considering that units have a melee dodge chance, and that charging is a risky endeavor, I think that consistency in damage   should  be a given. Considering also that some weapons already have it while other do not (for example compare the knife with its  tritanium version) it would also help rationalize (I hate this word) the combat system.

But melee weapons already have 50-150 damage rolls... Well, most of them.

- I think it would  be good if knifes accuracy  was determined  by 50+0,5 formula. From what I know knifes are easier to use than swords,

That's a really odd statement. What's easier, hitting people with a stick or hitting people with your bare fist? (And spears win anyway.)

Maybe it's worthwhile to review these formulas, but at this point I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with them, considering the entire balance as well as the "cinematic experience" (lol).

but right now in game they are only truly useful  on soldiers with martial  arts training that can hit their targets.  I do also feel that the electric club is a too dominant  choice for a melee backup weapo, being more effective  than other melee in taking down opponents,  making it an almost no brainer. An alternative  melee weapon for it would  be welcome. Also their power bonus could  be changed to 0,1 reactions + 0,1 melee accuracy.

It's the least "melee" melee weapon, so maybe not. But I see where you're coming from.

I do think that skill bonus in general  should  be tone down a bit and make base damage  more important   with a few exceptions for two reasons: to make weapon obsolescence  more important  and to  make elite warriors a bit more balanced. I do think that stat bonus damage  leads to a double accounting  problem where weapons do not only hit more often, but do often double damage in the process. Melee weapons  are the more clear example where two transformations  make the difference  between having to engage  an enemy  with multiple  units to bring it down to clear a whole UFO with a katana and a knife.

Would make sense in a fantasy/historical game, but here melee is rather niche, so I prefer to keep it as is. I just think it's more exciting this way.

- Some concrete  balance changes would  be: lower the weight  of the combat knife to 3, make the tonfa use the 50+ 0,5 accuracy, buff the chitin knife to the level of others knifes , the axes should  probably  be two handed weapons and have lower strength bonuses, the pitchfork  could do cutting damage, and the pickaxe could use normal  wepon mechanics now that they can hit terrain.

Knife is heavier to represent that it's heavier, tonfa is not a fence pale, chitin knife is weird be concept, axes are only two-handed in fantasy (unless you mean polearms), pitchfork from my experience doesn't have a cutting edge, and the pickaxe was left alone for a reason (like, it should not be a good martial weapon).

-  I 'm going to include here the laser cutter as I feel it needs a buff, as taking a hammer for demolition  is normally  a better idea, being  able to do similar  damage, and being much more multipurpose. Maybe it could  be remained as an anti-large weapon such as the sectopod for base defense missions with a lower TU cost and better CQC accuracy

I'm considering reviewing all anti-terrain values, so we'll see.

-Throwing  Knifes could use some base damage but get less damage bonus. They are a strange weapon in that they are practically  useless  below 70 accuracy  but at 100 they do some very serious  damage. I think it would  be preferable  if they had a lower skill factor to make them a better weapon to train throwing  ability  with.

No, they're damn hard to use. Especially one-bladed ones, like those in the mod.

Also the aimed shot could cost more but have more effective  range while having a similar  acc to the snap shot: right now there is little reason to use the snap.

Reactions, doh.

-Crossbows could be a single shot option  but do more damage. I don't know if it would  be possible to have stackable  items in the inventory,  but it is strange for them to have the same firerate of a sniper rifle. Also the harpoon  launcher is already a single shot weapon that gets completely  outclassed  by these weapons. Also their tritanium  arrows could probably  be at 36 damage to make them  more in line with other tritanium  ammo.

These are mostly necessary simplifications, and the damage - well, bolts aren't bullets. Tritanium bullets do more damage because they are allow for more extreme energies, which is irrelevant to crossbows.

- The heavy Xbow should  be heavier, but do much more base damage than the normal Xbow while having the same bonus as the normal version(make it a heavy cannon version of it). Xbow doesn't get their strength from the user directly,  so it is strange to see it so reliant of it. Ideally,  it should  be closer to the gas cannon in base damage to make the choice of heavy underwater weapons more interesting (right now while the Xbow scales better, the gas cannon two snap shot in one turn make it more useful).

The strength bonus is mostly due to efficient operation (no mechanism), but I admit it's rather counter-intuitive and your points are valid.

- while talking  about  underwater  weapons, the harpoon  launcher could  use a buff, as rigth now is a complete joke. First,  the max range needs to go: it doesn't make sense that other weapons doesn't  have it while the harpoon  launcher is impaired  by the laws of physics.  Secondly,  it could  use a damage buff to rifle levels, and maybe get a 0,1 firing accuracy  bonus like the xbow. Finally  the HE round could do damage similar to the tritanium  one. Considering underwater  units usually  have good concussive resistance , the current  round is close to useless. The balance  could  be that the Xbow is more accurate,  but the Launcher more hard hitting. Also if the xbow keeps their quiver clips, I think the harpoon launcher could use the same treatment.

All these are simplifications due to the fact that we can't have separate underwater versions of weapons.

Firearms general:
-Weapon damage mainly come from their weapon calibre. There are plenty  of examples of weapons firing the same round yet having different  damage values. For example the glock,Beretta and the Uzi or the Colt,the Tommy and the Mac10. This more a realism argument  than a gameplay  one although  I do think some of this weapons deserve a buff (Uzi at 20 is a joke, the colt could use a bit more damage).

Then we'd only need like 3 handgun models. Realism being realism, but that's just dull.

- Overall i quite like the balance early on, as there are many options and you are quite dependent on what your enemies bring to the table. I would however  make two changes: The calico could use SMG rate of fire (I will propose a 3x snap an a 6x auto) as rigth now it is a very poor weapon choice

Well, it's technically a pistol. :P

and the Nitro express  could use a higher base damage but a lower power bonus. It shoots a big round, where it hits should  make such a difference.  Treating it as a Sniper weapon may not be a bad idea

We have other such weapons.

- Another change I would  suggest is to make the 7.62 Nato rifles do more base damage rather than to rely  on a power bonus. More accurate  users already  benefit  from hitting the target more time anyways, and it is kinda of unnecessary.  I would  suggest a 34 damage round and also that it fires slower, maybe at a 30% snap minimum

See my comment on pistols.

- Continuing  with the rifles, maybe it wouldn't  be a bad idea to have the similar calibre rifles to have the same stats and their choice be mostly  cosmetical

See my comment on pistols.

-One weapon I would  slightly  nerf is the P-90 as it is too good rigth now. It combines a good ammo capacity, very good armor piercing for its  class and good accuracy.  It practically  outclasses every 5.56 rifle, and it is probably  the best rookie weapon even when black ops enter the game. I would be catious here and suggest that it's  damaged be reduced  to 22 like others SMG and it's  armor piercing  to 85%. In return I think a 5 burst auto could be good (in fact most smgs could get higher burst amounts) to make it better at CQC.

Well it's more advanced than other similar weapons, and I don't think it's that great - the competition from BlackOps and M.A.G.M.A. is fierce.
Also, see my comment on pistols. ;)

-Some minor changes would be: Bolt action should get the same accuracy  modifiers as the Nagant

Why???

the SVD should be treated as a sniper weapon when it comes to its  accuracy,

Seriously?  -_-

the PKM could use a 2 round snap shot at 30 % TU.

This is actually worth considering.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 08, 2020, 06:36:08 pm
- The HMG could get a 2 round shot.  Rigth now it is a weapon that you don't  want to be using most of the time, as it requires  a lot of patience  to use, and it is either a gross overkill, or a lottery machine with the way points. I feel that a snap shot option could  make it less situational, as more situations  were you want to use it a minigun would  work as well.

It's so OP that I don't want to also make it easy to use to boot.

- About pistols I can see two issues: the first one related to the balance between  magnun weapons and the standard pistols and on the second point  to the smart pistols.  On the first point,  magnun weapons fall short compare to standard  pistols mainly due to their poor armor performance. Sure they do more damage, but the final difference  is usually  not that big. Considering  their ammo clip size and their weight, they bring few advantages  to the table. Even the smart magnun  fall short as it quickly  runs out of ammo. The change I would make is to take out the armor penetration malus from this weapons, so their shots are more effective  against  the foes you usually  encounter.  About the smart pistol, the problem  is that it  simply  too good. Not only it completely overshadows the normal black ops pistol, is so good that it is even better than the later laser pistol.  I propose here two changes:make it heavier, 10 units of weight while loaded, and make it a little bit less accurate,  maybe 85% and 90%. It would  still be good, but the heavier weight specially  could  balance it a bit.

You have a very unusual view on this. Which again, means that the balance is right.

-The black ops smg could  get some armor piercing,  maybe 85% as the proposed P90 change, to make it a bit more viable. It currently  fall behind most other weapons for CQC

I'm sure this is why it's the most popular SMG, maybe after Mac-10...

- The Uac Smg could  be buffed as rigth now it is like a black ops rifle but worse. Better accuracy  would be welcome, and a larger magazine  could also prove helpful.

But why should it be so good?

- I think pulse weapons are an interesting  bunch. I do think that the LMG loaded with chem rounds is actually  a competitive weapon in the hands of accurate soldiers due to the power accuracy  bonus, but overall  they do feel a bit lackluster due to their accuracy  and their weigth. (...)

Sorry but these observations seem rather off, and do not match my observations, not observations of other reviewers.

- With that said about pulse weapons, I think rifle selection could be improved. Rigth now we have the 2 black ops rifles, the UAC one, the Smart rifle and the pulse rifle. Currently  the smart rifle is the superior  option ,as it overperform the normal black ops rifles, the pulse rifle have it's issues and the UAC rifle is a joke. Keeping the line established with the previous  line of rifles, I would  suggest  changing  the smart rifle ammo to do less damage but be armor piercing. I would suggest a 24 damage normal bullet and a 32 tritanium one, making the maximum  damage of the auto equal to the one of an auto burst from an assault, and with a 90% AP damage. (...)

TBH I really think you are overestimating the smart rifle. I guess it's okay as is, and certainly doesn't seem that popular.

- Some minor changes i would make would be: get the tritanium  shotgun shell do 55 damage like the CAWS clip; make the UAC shotgun fire quicker to maybe 30% snap, 65% aimed;

Completely arbitrary.

and increase  the reload cost of the Thrasher  to 15 or 20 TU, as it can shoot very quick for such a good weapon.

Because it's hand-loaded. Like the Doom shotgun.

-  I feel like the auto could get a much faster firerate. Considering  rigth now the only advantage  it has is an auto setting, and lacking slug rounds, even the standard black ops shotgun seem like a better deal. I would  argue to get it armor piercing dart rounds, but I think a two round snap shot an a 4 shot  auto could improve it a bit. I feel like the two round snap is could be enough  buff.
- The smart shotgun is a bit underwhelming, considering  it is supposed  to be one of the most advanced  shotguns. While accurate and fast firing, it has a bad shotgun ammo (worse than the saw off) and needs to be shooted with two hands, while being worse than a CAWS as a main shotgun choice. I would  make three changes:make it lighter,  remove the one hand penalty and finally reduce the pellets spread. I could see this weapon working as a secondary  weapon, specially  for undeecover missions, rather than being a main weapon candidate.

It's not a sawed-off. I would have to make a new weapon.
And the spread is standard. I don't think it should be better, but I'm open to suggestions.

- I think that giving sniper rifles all the same power bonus could help. (...)

Yeah yeah, make all weapons the same. Meh.

-One weapon i would change is the auto sniper, as i fell is underwhelming  compare to his  bolt action brother. The issue i see here is that it shoots as quickly  as the normal rifle while being  more or less just as accurate.  The auto setting i feel is not that great, usually  missing rounds. I would change it to be more of a marksman rifle, with a 35% snap shot, more accurate  auto setting  and removing the minimum  range, with a less powerful  power bonus. A better rifle for gun an running,  but less for stationary combat.

But it's not what this weapon is...

- the light cannon could get a slight accuracy  boost as rigth now

You are literally insane. :D

- The sonic heavy cannon should weigth less, as with the focused clip it weigths a staggering  amount of 64 weigth units, making it impractical  to use it in battle. A weight  more in line with other heavy weapons would probably  make more sense , maybe at 48 weigth when fully loaded.

Your men just aren't ready yet. :)

- The cyber web normal weapons (the Ionizer, the Ion blaster and the lightning  thrower) need to be more accurate  and fire slightly  faster. While their X dimension arsenal is fine, their earth weapons usually  only fire once per turn and completely  miss their target.  Being also quite heavy, their use by Xcom is difficult  to justify

All working as designed. (Anytrhing else would wreck any semblance of balance.)

Different  damage types are already  a big point of using different  grenades/missile/shell  types, but i don't  think having 0-200 ones mixed with 50-150 ones are good for balance.

It's more of a bug category. I'll review any discrepancies, they tend to accumulate.

- About  missile  launchers,  one I find in a bad position is the multi-launcher. This weapon is more of a competitor of the auto cannon than the normal missile launcher, with very few advantages  and one big flaw in it's ammo weigth.  Also the lack of power of its  missiles means that is usually  a best idea to bring a normal missile launcher for longer  range support.  I think a lower missile pack weigth could help, along with an accuracy  in the lines of the other launchers.

It's a quad launcher. It launches quads. It doesn't have to be competitive. :D

- The advanced missile launcher should  only be used for mind guided missiles. The current setup allows for troops to take reaction shoots with this missile type. The E-115 missile should  in turn go to the normal mssile launcher, as a final upgrade to it

Why prevent reacting, though? It's up to the player.

- The auto mortar should be what his name imply.  The current accuracy  model 70 %*0,75*300% makes it perfectly  accurate  at any range, which for a weapon that usually  one shoots any targets it hits, is mind boggling.  I would  prefer if the weapon had the same accuracy  of the normal mortar but having a two round magazine  that could be auto fire with way points.

Hmm, interesting, though might be OP. Worth considering.

-Should shrapnel  weapons leave fire after hitting? I do think that this type of weapon already  overperform  over normal concussive weapons, but the extra fire seems unnecessary.  Considering  also that cutting  is a better weapon damage type than concussive  when it comes to enemy resistances, i think that the extra blast radius of this weapons is not very balanced.

It's a side effect. I could specifically disable it, but it's too awesome. :)

- I think this weapons deserve  the two roll system considering  the nature of their attack. Acid could probably  splash in the case of the canister gun or cover a wide area in case of the chemo gun, so even near misses could still do damage.

It think it'd make them too reliable.

- Speaking of the chemo gun, a lower TU use would help it a lot. Being a weapon with such a close range, the rather high TU usage of 65% makes it impractical  to use in more situations,  specially  compare to a minigun,  as you will expose your agent to just use it one. I think this weapon has more in common with the flamethrower, and it should be better suited for close assult use.

Chem weapons are always practical. I don't want to make them even better.

- the last big change i would  proposem I think most of this weapons should  stop using the vanilla damage effect and use a 50-150 formula. Most napalm ammo already  work like this, so it would  make sense that the night ligther incendiary rocket worked this way.

It works like any other flame weapon. Which is certainly not 0-200. (It has damageType: 2.)

As for the flamer, the current utility  of the weapon is rather limited as enemies would usually  survive a full auto shot from it.

Yeah, and spend the rest of the battle running around and screaming.

Hilariously it seems to work better against  4 tile units like sectopods, ignoring  their armor and doing 4 times the damage.

It's not hilarious, it's perfectly normal, and the mechanics (armours, resistances) accounts for this obvious effect.

I'm going to leave it here because  I have write quite enough  already 8) One last suggestion,  make handcuffs  be usable with one hand rather than requiring  two, as they are quite limited  as they are rigth now.

That would be silly. Also, I have no interest in promoting handcuffs beyond their current usability.

Ps I may have overdid by quite a big margin lol

Well for what it's worth, I'm grateful. :)

Meridian is notoriously unwilling to do features suggested by non-modders. Which is completely understandable, why bother to do something that will never be used.

So the only strong argument will be that it would be used by somebody.

I can imagine having a terror mission during a parade. And a wave after wave of parade formations showing up on the street. :)
Or a bunch of hunter showing up to hunt Strange Creatures.

Okay, I don't have very specific plans here, but I guess it wouldn't be hard to come up with mission ideas. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: termidor on December 08, 2020, 09:09:49 pm
Well I'm glad it could  be useful, because  I doubt  I'm doing it again   8)  And yes more of my observations  are highly  subjective and without  too much experience  to back them up as it is literally  my second game with this mod, but  I think is always useful  to give a personal  point of view.

That's a really odd statement. What's easier, hitting people with a stick or hitting people with your bare fist? (And spears win anyway.)
I really can't  tell as I'm not a expert  on melee weapons, but I do think a knife is easier to use than a sword from what i read and see. The effectiveness  of them is a completely  different  question, but it seems to me that knife requires  less skill. In the mod Knifes already are less accurate with a 75% chance to hit, so it would  already  take that they are harder to hit with into account .


 ..chitin knife is weird be concept, axes are only two-handed in fantasy (unless you mean polearms), pitchfork from my experience doesn't have a cutting edge, and the pickaxe was left alone for a reason (like, it should not be a good martial weapon).

Yes the chitin is a weird weapon which I think  is fine, but considering  it comes rather late in game, it could  be at the base level damage of the tritanium  knife. And I should have clarify in this point, but isn't  the axe just a woodworking normal axe? Considering  it is in the hands of civilians. As for the pitchfork, you are stabbing  a man with it, not to different  from thrusting  with a knife, so cutting  seem more fitting.
I'm considering reviewing all anti-terrain values, so we'll see.


All these are simplifications due to the fact that we can't have separate underwater versions of weapons.
Yes I suppose so. I do think however  that the weapon needs a heavy buff, at least work like X-bows do. On underwater  missions  you can bring 5 harpoons per person max while heavily limiting  your inventory  space, and a normal crossbow outclasses  it most of the time.

Well, it's technically a pistol. :P

I supposed it was meme more than anything  else, but considering  it has a auto setting , giving it more smg stats wouldn't  hurt


See my comment on pistols.

See my comment on pistols.
I do think it is strange that rifles shooting  a bigger bullet are more dependent  on user accuracy  than smaller bullet rifles. As for the second  point I don't  think it would  reduce choice as currently  some of those rifles are worse in every aspect to other. I know it is strange to bring the Austin argument to a 1995 game, but if I want to use the Ak47 over the AKM I don't  think it should  punished by worst stats.


Well it's more advanced than other similar weapons, and I don't think it's that great - the competition from BlackOps and M.A.G.M.A. is fierce.
Also, see my comment on pistols. ;)
I actually  find it better than the black ops smg (significantly  more accurate )and the MAGMA Smg is rather heavy which is an important  downside. Regardless,  I think that at least the armor piercing  should be reduced:the P-90 shoots bullets similar to the ones of rifles, it shouldn't  outperform them on this point (I assume that the rifles are using AP ammo).

Why???
It gets the same damage stats while being easier to aim, make more funny by the fact the Mosin is scoped while the rifle uses iron sights


Seriously?  -_-
It is a sniper rifle and should  be treated as such. The vintorez fulfills a similar role (being even more intended  for closer quarters than the SVD) and it uses the square formula as well. I know it is arbitrary to decide  what each weapon gets, but I do think the formula  would reflect  better it's intended use.

It's so OP that I don't want to also make it easy to use to boot.
I'am missing something  here because  i can't  see how it could be very OP. You can't  shoot an run with it, shooting  it eats a whole turn, using it for one enemy is a huge overkill, spraying with it is a lottery and it's weigth limits heavily  it's usage and possible  load out. A tactical  sniper or a minigun  seems like much more optimal  load out, and from my experience with it there are much better weapons for a similar use.

You have a very unusual view on this. Which again, means that the balance is right.
  Just to clarify, I was referring  to the tritanium  drum. Not that magnun  aren't  good weapons, but I think the black ops pistols are more effective  against  enemies at this stage (syndicate, cyberweb) than magnun rounds.

I'm sure this is why it's the most popular SMG, maybe after Mac-10...
There is clearly something  I don't  see here  :-\


Sorry but these observations seem rather off, and do not match my observations, not observations of other reviewers.
Just to inquire,  what is the general consensus of them? I researched them rather late (with laser rifles on the field), but the chem rounds seems to be specifically  good in the LMG (in that they can drop a muton in one hit, or melt a black sun soldier with an auto burst) but the other ones fall more on the heavy side of things and their chem rounds being unable to deal properly  with armor.


Completely arbitrary.
On the first one the shotgun slug does the same damage in the shotgun and the CAWS, while their tritanium  versions  differ, so I thought  there was a typo. On the second point,  the UAC shotgun  could be buffed to at least be more competitive , as it is the slower firing shotgun  rigth now while being limited to a heavier shell types


And the spread is standard. I don't think it should be better, but I'm open to suggestions.
If it isn't  a sawed-off  of then it's  range performance  could be better , which all the computer stuff and such. And as I said, make it usable for one handed use, so that it could be paired with a pistol or a smg


But it's not what this weapon is...
The turbo sniper already  gets similar stats, and i thought the auto was similar it, being a in-between  the sniper and the rifle.

You are literally insane. :D
I was going to originally propose  for it to do auto cannon damage ;D . But for real, the Auto cannon is more accurate  than it which is something I can't completely understand. I love the concept  of the weapon with its multiple  ammo types, but I do feel it gets obsolete  rather fast.


Why prevent reacting, though? It's up to the player.
Mind guided missiles can only be "launched " yet reactions use the snap shot  action, which seems unintended.


It think it'd make them too reliable.
Well, then at the less the canister  launcher could get this treatment.  It doesn't  carry much ammo and it's not specifically accurate,  and the projectiles it shoot would probably  still damage you if hitting close enough.



It works like any other flame weapon. Which is certainly not 0-200. (It has damageType: 2.)
Yes that what I was referring  too. So instead  of the incendiary  rocket working as in vanilla, it could work like the napalm grenades. That was also why I proposed  removing shrapnel  weapon fire effects.  Why bring incendiaries if they do less damage and do much less effect?


Yeah, and spend the rest of the battle running around and screaming.
With a dead guy from the reaction fire from a plasma gun 7 titles away  :P Don't get me wrong I like flame weapons as a concept, but their usability  leaves a lot to be desired.  Sure they take away the enemy morale, but  there are weapons that do exactly  that while doing damage (chem weapons for example). Also using it against  zombies is very disappointing,  specially   considering  how good are napalm rounds against  them. At the very least it could cause no reaction fire (you are being burned alive after all!) to make it less suicidal.
It's not hilarious, it's perfectly normal, and the mechanics (armours, resistances) accounts for this obvious effect.

Side question: Why do we need enemy dropouts for gauss and mass driver weapons? In Final you can just research them organically, so I wonder why the change.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 09, 2020, 10:54:47 am
I really can't  tell as I'm not a expert  on melee weapons, but I do think a knife is easier to use than a sword from what i read and see. The effectiveness  of them is a completely  different  question, but it seems to me that knife requires  less skill.

It certainly doesn't, or else people wouldn't have invented swords. ;)
 
Yes the chitin is a weird weapon which I think  is fine, but considering  it comes rather late in game, it could  be at the base level damage of the tritanium  knife. And I should have clarify in this point, but isn't  the axe just a woodworking normal axe? Considering  it is in the hands of civilians. As for the pitchfork, you are stabbing  a man with it, not to different  from thrusting  with a knife, so cutting  seem more fitting.

Regarding the chitin knife: yeah, it's pretty weak for its level, but then it's more like a gadget than a serious weapon. you wnat a short-bladed weapon from Shogg, you use the dragon dagger.
Axe: ity is indeed a woodworking axe, which is usually used one-handed, sometimes two-handed (based n personal experience - I chopped some wood in my life). So this is a bit of a simplification.
Pitchfork: unlike in Piratez, we don't have a special stabbing damage type here, so I decided to approximate it to a bullet rather than a blade. Yes, it's arbitrary, just felt more appropriate to me.

Yes I suppose so. I do think however  that the weapon needs a heavy buff, at least work like X-bows do. On underwater  missions  you can bring 5 harpoons per person max while heavily limiting  your inventory  space, and a normal crossbow outclasses  it most of the time.

OK, we'll see, though it's pretty hard.

As for the second  point I don't  think it would  reduce choice as currently  some of those rifles are worse in every aspect to other. I know it is strange to bring the Austin argument to a 1995 game, but if I want to use the Ak47 over the AKM I don't  think it should  punished by worst stats.

Why would the AK-47 not be penalized against the AKM? It is, after all, much older design.

I actually  find it better than the black ops smg (significantly  more accurate )and the MAGMA Smg is rather heavy which is an important  downside. Regardless,  I think that at least the armor piercing  should be reduced:the P-90 shoots bullets similar to the ones of rifles, it shouldn't  outperform them on this point (I assume that the rifles are using AP ammo).

Splitting hairs... Such things aren't that well defined in the mod.

It gets the same damage stats while being easier to aim, make more funny by the fact the Mosin is scoped while the rifle uses iron sights

Easier to aim for chumps only. Mosin is for specialists and sometimes considered the best sniper rifle until advanced designs.

It is a sniper rifle and should  be treated as such.

It's a marksman rifle.

I'am missing something  here because  i can't  see how it could be very OP. You can't  shoot an run with it, shooting  it eats a whole turn, using it for one enemy is a huge overkill, spraying with it is a lottery and it's weigth limits heavily  it's usage and possible  load out. A tactical  sniper or a minigun  seems like much more optimal  load out, and from my experience with it there are much better weapons for a similar use.

Such things are never objective. The HMG is indeed hard to deploy, as it needs a bodybuilder to operatre. But once in the field, it cuts through terrain like butter and is basically a heavy sniper rifle, only based on Strength and not Firing Accuracy.

Just to clarify, I was referring  to the tritanium  drum. Not that magnun  aren't  good weapons, but I think the black ops pistols are more effective  against  enemies at this stage (syndicate, cyberweb) than magnun rounds.

That's actually good, the BlackOps pistol needs more love - nobody uses it...

Just to inquire,  what is the general consensus of them? I researched them rather late (with laser rifles on the field), but the chem rounds seems to be specifically  good in the LMG (in that they can drop a muton in one hit, or melt a black sun soldier with an auto burst) but the other ones fall more on the heavy side of things and their chem rounds being unable to deal properly  with armor.

Well, chem rounds in general are very effective against certain late game enemies.

On the first one the shotgun slug does the same damage in the shotgun and the CAWS, while their tritanium  versions  differ, so I thought  there was a typo. On the second point,  the UAC shotgun  could be buffed to at least be more competitive , as it is the slower firing shotgun  rigth now while being limited to a heavier shell types

CAWS has stronger pellets, but less of them.

The UAC Shotgun is pretty solid, I think. It doesn't have solids slug projectiles (yet anyway), but in terms of raw power it scales pretty logically. I think of it as a mini-Thrasher.

If it isn't  a sawed-off  of then it's  range performance  could be better , which all the computer stuff and such. And as I said, make it usable for one handed use, so that it could be paired with a pistol or a smg

OK, how about this: I'll leave it as it is, but will decrease the penalty for using it one-handed. Say, to -30% (stanard is -50%). Good?

I was going to originally propose  for it to do auto cannon damage ;D . But for real, the Auto cannon is more accurate  than it which is something I can't completely understand.

It's much heavier, so of course it's more accurate. Or am I missing something? What is your agrument against it?

I love the concept  of the weapon with its multiple  ammo types, but I do feel it gets obsolete  rather fast.

Well bigger is better, but it's not easy to have agents stgrong enough to use the two bigger designs. I guess you didn't have this issue as much.

Mind guided missiles can only be "launched " yet reactions use the snap shot  action, which seems unintended.

Well, true, but I don't think it's bad design. I'll think about it more.

Well, then at the less the canister  launcher could get this treatment.  It doesn't  carry much ammo and it's not specifically accurate,  and the projectiles it shoot would probably  still damage you if hitting close enough.

All the more reason to make it more random!

Yes that what I was referring  too. So instead  of the incendiary  rocket working as in vanilla, it could work like the napalm grenades. That was also why I proposed  removing shrapnel  weapon fire effects.  Why bring incendiaries if they do less damage and do much less effect?

OK, I'll tink about it at some point. It needs a holistic approach.

With a dead guy from the reaction fire from a plasma gun 7 titles away  :P Don't get me wrong I like flame weapons as a concept, but their usability  leaves a lot to be desired.  Sure they take away the enemy morale, but  there are weapons that do exactly  that while doing damage (chem weapons for example). Also using it against  zombies is very disappointing,  specially   considering  how good are napalm rounds against  them. At the very least it could cause no reaction fire (you are being burned alive after all!) to make it less suicidal.

Hmm, OK, I'll see what I can do about that.

Side question: Why do we need enemy dropouts for gauss and mass driver weapons? In Final you can just research them organically, so I wonder why the change.

In Final there are no Reptoids as a separate faction. Here kinetic weapons are essentially Reptoid tech.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Fiskun1 on December 09, 2020, 12:01:29 pm
I haven’t played this wonderful mod for a long time, and have never even gone through it even to the middle.
But I constantly read the forum and just stunned by all the announced changes.
This is really very, very cool, thanks!

And yes, I wanted to ask, how many different types of terrain are currently involved in the modification?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 09, 2020, 05:09:01 pm
Many thanks, Fiskun!

And yes, I wanted to ask, how many different types of terrain are currently involved in the modification?

This is pretty hard to answer, because it's not a clear issue.
- Do terrains with the same maps, but different tilesets (basically reskins) count as separate terrains? Example: Alien Base vs. Shogg Palace vs. UAC Base vs. Hybrid Base.
- Do terrains with the same tilesets, but different maps count? Example: Alien Base vs. Alien Tunnels.
- Do terrains which only work as part of other terrains count? Examples: Asylum Fence, various Urban Low additions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: EmoNewtype on December 09, 2020, 09:27:35 pm
I have a few random suggestions for changes:

1) Give the ENFORCER HWP armor a bonus to Throwing Accuracy and Melee Accuracy, and/or increase the bonuses from Lightcycling. As it stands, these stats start so low that its almost impossible to train AI units in them. Maybe lower the cap for these stats for AI Units to compensate and prevent 75 Strength Sledgehammer murderbots from being too overpowered.

2) Have MiB HWPs drop Wrecked Tank/Laser Cannons and MiB Sectopods drop Wrecked Sectopods. If that would screw with their graphics, maybe add a manufacturing project to convert the MiB Wreck into the normal variant.

3) Make the Crowbar one handed so our agents can act like Gordon Freeman. Or more likely die trying
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 10, 2020, 02:01:37 am
1) Give the ENFORCER HWP armor a bonus to Throwing Accuracy and Melee Accuracy, and/or increase the bonuses from Lightcycling. As it stands, these stats start so low that its almost impossible to train AI units in them. Maybe lower the cap for these stats for AI Units to compensate and prevent 75 Strength Sledgehammer murderbots from being too overpowered.

I hope to just make earlier humanoid armours to train.

2) Have MiB HWPs drop Wrecked Tank/Laser Cannons and MiB Sectopods drop Wrecked Sectopods. If that would screw with their graphics, maybe add a manufacturing project to convert the MiB Wreck into the normal variant.

I changed the tank as you suggested, Sectopod should work like this already.

3) Make the Crowbar one handed so our agents can act like Gordon Freeman. Or more likely die trying

I understand the appeal, but I think 2-handed is more practical.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Ronios on December 11, 2020, 11:19:58 am
In terms of receiving medals, there were inconsistencies between sniper rifles and rifles. Some rifles are counted as sniper rifles and vice versa.
Weapons for sniper medal:

      killsWithCriteriaCareer: [5, 10, 20, 30, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 300]
    killCriteria:
      -
         - [1, ["STR_HUNTING_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_NITRO_EXPRESS", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_VSS", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_NATASHAS_VSS", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_SWD", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_QBU_88", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_M83_BARETT", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_PSG1", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_BLACKOPS_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_HEAVY_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_BLACKOPS_AUTO_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_MASS_DRIVER_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_GAUSS_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_LASER_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]
      -
         - [1, ["STR_PLASMA_SNIPER_RIFLE", "FACTION_HOSTILE", "STATUS_DEAD"]]

But this is "rifles":

  - type: STR_HUNTING_RIFLE
    categories: [STR_HUMAN_TECH, STR_FIREARMS, STR_RIFLES, STR_LAND]

  - type: STR_NITRO_EXPRESS
    categories: [STR_HUMAN_TECH, STR_FIREARMS, STR_RIFLES, STR_LAND]

  - type: STR_SWD
    categories: [STR_HUMAN_TECH, STR_FIREARMS, STR_RIFLES, STR_LAND]

  - type: STR_QBU_88
    categories: [STR_HUMAN_TECH, STR_FIREARMS, STR_RIFLES, STR_LAND]

And Mosin counts as a rifle, but:

  - type: STR_MOSIN_RIFLE
    categories: [STR_HUMAN_TECH, STR_FIREARMS, STR_SNIPER_RIFLES, STR_LAND]

Maybe there are similar moments in other medals, but I was not looking.

Please edit the categories of weapons, which should be as planned, so that there is no confusion with getting medals and anything else.

And a little question. "STATUS_DEAD" is counted at the moment of inflicting damage with a direct blow, which completely kills or death from bleeding on the floor is also counted to the last one who knocked down? And if the bleeding one gets up, but then dies from bleeding, where does it count?

And for MEDAL_WEAPON_PROFICIENCY, "totalKillsWithAWeapon" means any disabling method?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: 8mono on December 17, 2020, 04:38:29 am
Is it normal that I am finding more mixed alien crews in missions? I've had at least two big scouts and a terror mission where they would have Chtonites, Floaters, Snakemen and Sectoids  as well as Reapers and Celatids, I don't remember this being the case before 1.7
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: RolandVasko on December 18, 2020, 10:46:48 am
just some fine night noir jazz -blues long lounge, as i think it´s fitting for mood of (not only) X-Files :


(it seems timer, timestamps doesnt work properly in youtb linker, so rather here we go: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8MUMHhdUyg&t=626s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8MUMHhdUyg&t=40606s
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 20, 2020, 03:57:01 pm
In terms of receiving medals, there were inconsistencies between sniper rifles and rifles. Some rifles are counted as sniper rifles and vice versa. (...)

Please edit the categories of weapons, which should be as planned, so that there is no confusion with getting medals and anything else.

Good point. To be honest, I did these two categorizations at completely different points, so some decisions were different. But I agree that is should be unified. I'll do that ASAP, thanks for bringing my attention to this.

And a little question. "STATUS_DEAD" is counted at the moment of inflicting damage with a direct blow, which completely kills or death from bleeding on the floor is also counted to the last one who knocked down? And if the bleeding one gets up, but then dies from bleeding, where does it count?

And for MEDAL_WEAPON_PROFICIENCY, "totalKillsWithAWeapon" means any disabling method?

I cannot answer with 100% accuracy, because I can't read the code. Let's just assume that killin' peepz wit da riflez make ya a rifle boi ;D

Is it normal that I am finding more mixed alien crews in missions? I've had at least two big scouts and a terror mission where they would have Chtonites, Floaters, Snakemen and Sectoids  as well as Reapers and Celatids, I don't remember this being the case before 1.7

I think there's been no change here. Such crews are still rare. I suspect the UFOs you mentioned were all part of one terror mission, so they had the same race. But then again, a terror mission only has 1 scout, so maybe not.

just some fine night noir jazz -blues long lounge, as i think it´s fitting for mood of (not only) X-Files :

While I don't plan to add any music right now, thanks, I'll check it out. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Ronios on December 22, 2020, 10:59:51 am
When I researched the tritanium gear for dogs and started comparing it with what it was, I found a small joint. According to the description, this armor is lighter and stronger than the purchased one, but it turned out that it gives much less stamina recovery, and after digging, I found this:
  - type: STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST_ARMOR

      energy:
        flatHundred: 0.21
        healthCurrent: 0.25

  - type: STR_DOGE_ALLOY_VEST_ARMOR_UNDERWATER

      energy:
        manaNormalized: 30
        healthCurrent: 0.25

and basic purchaseable armor

  - type: STR_DOGE_COMBAT_VEST_ARMOR

      energy:
        manaNormalized: 30
        healthCurrent: 0.25
And perhaps, if it is more convenient, as they say, is it worth slightly raising the recovery? But until I tried it, I can't say anything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: RolandVasko on December 22, 2020, 05:19:50 pm
Btw.  when we already have *X-Com - Files, as such meta-reference on samename tv-show, conspiracy-theories, and overal on whole (*80 - )  *90-years, - so

so in there would be fine to include into this also Nicita (1991 - 99 tv classic straight *90´show, and some reference on this, - as it is also fitting into that era, the 90*ninetiens.. )

https://www.csfd.cz/film/69594-brutalni-nikita/prehled/

(well, we maybe might take into considering AMYBE also that new remake https://www.csfd.cz/film/281631-nikita/638155-serie-4/galerie/?type=1 )


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: RolandVasko on December 23, 2020, 01:09:09 pm

While I don't plan to add any music right now, thanks, I'll check it out. :)

thankx for respond,

and i add another very similar to first,  such second volume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzS51WWtEvg&t=314s

(btw.it seems to me timer (.."&t=XYs"  timestamps) doesnt works properly at the youtube linker in this forums)



and yet 1idea - for Skynet -/Terminator units, i miss especially some of their top-tier, super-hyper hitech unit - with polymorph, polyforms ability (those Kristanna Loken, - TX, terminatrix, T-1000, etc, etc.. )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 24, 2020, 11:55:53 am
I would like to discuss early game difficulty and Church of Dagon.
After my fourth playthrough i realized that they are the hardest starting enemy by far. Red Dawn still being the easiest, even with the armoured car suprise outside their HQ.

Some of their alien budies could be toned down. The gillman needs to have its range severely nerfed as it can shoot across the entire map with sufficient damage to one shot your troops in armoured vest if it rolls higher damage, or leaves them at 20 HP. The elecricity attack needs to be medium ranged one or its damage toned down considerably. Or atleast remove the arc from his attack so he needs a direct line of sight to hit someone.

Furthermore, during ritual mass murder events (Or any instance of a map spawning gillmen with ranged weapons) gillman armed with sonic pistols needs to have smaller range too because it does so much damage (capable of full HP one shot). Sonic weapons on surface shouldnt have such range in the first place.

I wouldnt mind this difficulty if other cults didnt have such a drastic spike in difficulty but these instances are quite jarring. One thing i really like in the early game is that fights against cults is about trading blows rather than rocket tag gameplay, something that will disappear the moment aliens with their plasma weapons show up until super-late game when you get power armours.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Thunderwing280 on December 24, 2020, 07:01:45 pm
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with sectopods? They're such a pain to deal with, even with heavy plasma.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 24, 2020, 10:04:32 pm
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with sectopods? They're such a pain to deal with, even with heavy plasma.

Miniguns (Or heavy turbolaser minigun) because they have 95% Armour pierce, but mostly this wont kill the sectopod but it will errode its armour so multiple barrages will erode it further and further, making them more vulnerable to other weapons.
Or heavy gauss cannon if you have it, it can destroy it in one or two hits with good damage roll.

But the best way is to simply flank them with a laser tank and blast them full auto. Sectopods take bonus damage from lasers and laser tank main cannon is already beyond one shot range of most targets in the game and will eat the sectopod quickly.

Sectopods have massive resistance towards plasma on top of a massive armour, making them capable of tanking the heaviest plasma wepons in the game with ease. Make sure to get the wreck in one piece since you can rebuild it and deploy it yourself to hear the lamentation of enemies.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: EmoNewtype on December 25, 2020, 02:21:05 am
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with sectopods? They're such a pain to deal with, even with heavy plasma.

If my understanding of the game mechanics is correct, Tritanium Shrapnel Charges might work, they do Cutting damage which the Sectopod doesn't resist, hit its weaker under armor, and due to Sectopods being a multi-tile unit, may hit multiple times.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 25, 2020, 01:53:06 pm
When I researched the tritanium gear for dogs and started comparing it with what it was, I found a small joint. (...)

Yep, it's a bug. Thanks, fixed.

I would like to discuss early game difficulty and Church of Dagon.
After my fourth playthrough i realized that they are the hardest starting enemy by far. Red Dawn still being the easiest, even with the armoured car suprise outside their HQ.

This very sentence is so directly contrary to 95% of my feedback that I'm not going to address this at all.
I totally understand your arguement and I believe you, but people are pretty uniformly massacred by Red Dawn more than anything else, while Dagon is considered more to be a painful nuisance. I guess you have some unique playstyle which produces this, let's say it, downright bizarre experience. But that's good! It would be boring otherwise.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 25, 2020, 06:28:08 pm

I totally understand your arguement and I believe you, but people are pretty uniformly massacred by Red Dawn more than anything else,

I am really baffled   :o

What Red Dawn doesnt have

- Psionics
- Energy (Laser/Plasma/Electric) weapons.
- Alien troops
- Massed numbers
- Heavily armoured units, even the top dogs can be killed with standard equipment, armoured cars only spawn in one mission.
- Doesnt have any special missions with them like Rituals or EXALT raiding a VIP house. Only the durathread factory, which contains essential tech anyway and wont appear again once you solve it.
- No stealh units like ninjas, no bonus night vision like dagon cultists
- Non of their missions are sanity draining, meaning you can take your sweet time in them.

And they also have the easiest HQ still by far. Outside of the armoured cars who are indeed dangerous the rest of the map boils down to two guys standing with Katanas or other melee weapons at the entrance, by the walls on each side so whenever anyone comes out he will spot them the moment they can attack him.
Put third guy above the entrance with a shotgun and then just skip turns.
Once 30-40 corpses pile at the entrance then rest will just surrender.

So i ask other guys, what makes Red Dawn so dangerous when compared to other cults ?! Like i guess that they have sniper rifles and weapons with long range capabilties could be one factor i see.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Meridian on December 25, 2020, 06:35:36 pm
... boils down to two guys standing with Katanas or other melee weapons at the entrance, by the walls on each side so whenever anyone comes out he will spot them the moment they can attack him.
Put third guy above the entrance with a shotgun and then just skip turns.
Once 30-40 corpses pile at the entrance then rest will just surrender.

I'd say this qualifies as a "unique playstyle" :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 25, 2020, 06:39:42 pm
I'd say this qualifies as a "unique playstyle" :)
I guess so
But i am under the expectation that people utilize every aspect of the game whenever possible and something like this is pure no-brainer from me.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Ronios on December 25, 2020, 07:26:42 pm
I try to try all possible options and styles of fighting, but some moments forcefully nullify all efforts. Instead of running around and shooting in smoke and behind small shelters, everything began to come down to finding a roof over your head (otherwise they would immediately throw grenades), doors and walls, and waiting for the enemies to come themselves, even if time is limited.
Or the second option, for open spaces, when we pack 5-8 fire and explosive grenades into each agent, throw smoke grenades into half of the map, and after a few rounds we run out and start flooding the map with fire and explosions at the light of the rat.

2 last, many hours, battles, I was able to get the agents out of the plane only after 20-30 rounds, otherwise they just killed immediately, even with a strong smoke. Hehe.

This is relevant in advance 2 with tritanium body armor as the best armor against kinetic weapons and no protection against explosive damage.

The Assassins, by the way, are perhaps the most frightening opponents for me. And in general I agree that other factions have strong traits that Red Dawn does not.

I wanted to ask why the stun grenade made such a huge production time? They are good (initially), but 440 hours apiece, when armor and weapons are in the region of 400-1000 hours, is a little strange. In general, consumables that are relevant at the initial stage, but which are actually produced (due to the high cost) much later, are meaningless. Like 3-5 rounds and 30 damage clips(virus) with the same production time. After all, the real price includes the production time that engineers can spend to produce items for sale.

I do not want to say that something is bad and wrong. I just want to produce and use the things that you have invented and added, and not see that this is 20 times worse than just buying store consumables and calmly winning in dull ways. For example, personal armor, worth 2500 hours with the possibility of repair, is quite worthy of its price (in my opinion), especially since this is the first defense against energy weapons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 25, 2020, 08:27:28 pm
What Red Dawn has is wide use of the sniper/spotter mechanics. Few players can deal with that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 25, 2020, 09:14:17 pm
I try to try all possible options and styles of fighting, but some moments forcefully nullify all efforts. Instead of running around and shooting in smoke and behind small shelters, everything began to come down to finding a roof over your head (otherwise they would immediately throw grenades), doors and walls, and waiting for the enemies to come themselves, even if time is limited.
Or the second option, for open spaces, when we pack 5-8 fire and explosive grenades into each agent, throw smoke grenades into half of the map, and after a few rounds we run out and start flooding the map with fire and explosions at the light of the rat.

2 last, many hours, battles, I was able to get the agents out of the plane only after 20-30 rounds, otherwise they just killed immediately, even with a strong smoke. Hehe.

This is relevant in advance 2 with tritanium body armor as the best armor against kinetic weapons and no protection against explosive damage.

The Assassins, by the way, are perhaps the most frightening opponents for me. And in general I agree that other factions have strong traits that Red Dawn does not.



In general, against Exalt, Red Dawn, do missions at night against them. DONT do night missions against  Lotus.
Ninjas are hard to spot already, night just adds more insult to the injury.
Scout drones have anti-camo, capable of spotting ninja's better than humans.

One way to discourage grenade throws is to space out your troops. Have 4-5 titles distance between them and its just better to have one guy hit than two. That helps considerably.

Also just preventively prioritizing enemies with one empty hand or enemies that have mysteriously acted way too little in their previous turn (As if they were preparing a explosive) to cut it down more.
Osprey and Kitsune are neat that you can stand beneath them to cover from grenades.

Some crafts like Skymarshal and Ironfist have some unique features to deal with dropsite ambushes. Skyrmarshal has side doors you can use to shoot from while they close at the end of each turn, giving you a protection. Ironfist has a staircase to the roof, perfect way to launch mortar grenades or just general explosives to the outside. You are bound to unlock Skymarshal at some point or the other and Ironfist requires a deep dive (pun intended) to the underwater tech tree.


What Red Dawn has is wide use of the sniper/spotter mechanics. Few players can deal with that.
That is one strenght i can definetily give Red Dawn props for as this is an actual threat of them and requires more vigilnce from the player as to not leave soldiers in the open under the pretense of them being far away giving them safety.




Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: ohartenstein23 on December 25, 2020, 09:37:13 pm
Also just preventively prioritizing enemies with one empty hand or enemies that have mysteriously acted way too little in their previous turn (As if they were preparing a explosive) to cut it down more.

Neither of these will help more than just killing at random. AI doesn't need an empty hand to toss a grenade and definitely doesn't prime an explosive to throw it the next turn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: tarkalak on December 25, 2020, 10:19:07 pm
...
Ninjas are hard to spot already, night just adds more insult to the injury.
Scout drones have anti-camo, capable of spotting ninja's better than humans.
...

Not really. Ninjas are exactly as hard to see at night as in the day. Dogs and humans see them at 4 tiles and Scout Drones at 9. All of them can see further in the night. If you end up using the drones, night helps them not get shot to pieces by the gun toting Lotusians.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Ronios on December 26, 2020, 07:24:18 am
Quote
In general, against Exalt, Red Dawn, do missions at night against them. DONT do night missions against  Lotus.
Ninjas are hard to spot already, night just adds more insult to the injury.
Scout drones have anti-camo, capable of spotting ninja's better than humans.

I no longer feel much difference to go on missions of factions day or night. I have found enough countermeasures against each type of enemy to fight in both light and dark. And yes, assassins are always equally well disguised and usually I take a rat against Lotus, which is much more effective than a drone, especially at night. Although the drone is also present.

Quote
One way to discourage grenade throws is to space out your troops. Have 4-5 titles distance between them and its just better to have one guy hit than two. That helps considerably.

Osprey and Kitsune are neat that you can stand beneath them to cover from grenades.

About the separation of soldiers, I think so it is clear.
And about the shelter under the planes. Several missions were such that the whole crowd stood behind the wheels of my plane for a long time, minimizing the chance of hitting me with conventional weapons and not giving the chance to throw grenades at me, and this is also quite a common thing.


A little out of place in this topic, but I wanted to tell the story of one of the last, interesting long battles.

It was the defense of the mansion against the Exalts. On the mission, I took a drone, a rat, 2 dogs and 4 agents with all stats, except for melee combat, maximally raised (for this stage of the game). Armed at the start all with two-handed electric stunners and 2 with MAC-10, 2 with light cannons (first trial). On the first moves, I stunned as many civilians as possible so that they would not be killed immediately and ruined the house with grenades. At this time, the dogs stood in the courtyard in front of the doors and waited for guests, and the rat simply hid. Then he gradually took all the residents to one of the windowless storage rooms and put the drone inside the room in front of a closed door. When the enemies began to come more actively, I had to move from the courtyard (there is no roof there) into the corridor. But after some time and a dozen or one and a half corpses, the crazy grenadier smashed and burned this room and had to retreat deeper into the building. For a while, it was possible to shoot back, looking through the windows from the room, opposite the front door, but the outer window made me a little nervous, even though the rat with psi-vision illuminated the approaching enemies. Then, with a wrench, i made holes in the walls and placed the dog comfortably so that it would calmly kill everyone who came. On the second floor, there was also a war, and I burned part of the floor myself, and the other part was destroyed by enemies with miniguns. When I had to go to rearm, I put the dog in one secluded place behind a broken wall, in which it is not visible from the street and it easily kills those entering the stairs to the second floor.
When the mass panic had already begun and the enemies stopped coming, i began to inspect the territory from the roof with a rat, broke the wall on the ground floor so that it was convenient to go outside and showered the territory with flyers. Two armed with sniper rifles that ignore 25% of the armor and went to the roof. Then a couple of grenades and 3-4 shots of snipers and the armored car was destroyed. Victory with 2 dead civilians who, after the middle of the battle, simply trampled in a closed room.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 26, 2020, 06:00:18 pm


It was the defense of the mansion against the Exalts. On the mission, I took a drone, a rat, 2 dogs and 4 agents with all stats, except for melee combat, maximally raised (for this stage of the game). Armed at the start all with two-handed electric stunners and 2 with MAC-10, 2 with light cannons (first trial). On the first moves, I stunned as many civilians as possible so that they would not be killed immediately and ruined the house with grenades. At this time, the dogs stood in the courtyard in front of the doors and waited for guests, and the rat simply hid. Then he gradually took all the residents to one of the windowless storage rooms and put the drone inside the room in front of a closed door. When the enemies began to come more actively, I had to move from the courtyard (there is no roof there) into the corridor. But after some time and a dozen or one and a half corpses, the crazy grenadier smashed and burned this room and had to retreat deeper into the building. For a while, it was possible to shoot back, looking through the windows from the room, opposite the front door, but the outer window made me a little nervous, even though the rat with psi-vision illuminated the approaching enemies. Then, with a wrench, i made holes in the walls and placed the dog comfortably so that it would calmly kill everyone who came. On the second floor, there was also a war, and I burned part of the floor myself, and the other part was destroyed by enemies with miniguns. When I had to go to rearm, I put the dog in one secluded place behind a broken wall, in which it is not visible from the street and it easily kills those entering the stairs to the second floor.
When the mass panic had already begun and the enemies stopped coming, i began to inspect the territory from the roof with a rat, broke the wall on the ground floor so that it was convenient to go outside and showered the territory with flyers. Two armed with sniper rifles that ignore 25% of the armor and went to the roof. Then a couple of grenades and 3-4 shots of snipers and the armored car was destroyed. Victory with 2 dead civilians who, after the middle of the battle, simply trampled in a closed room.

Now thats an interesting way to solve an otherwise harder mission at this stage of the game. Stunning and hauling civilians to a room so they dont hurt themselves is quite genious way to get the best score possible.
Really, sometimes creativity does solve what otherwise would be a blood bath for both sides, or would require good gear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Pucchimera on December 31, 2020, 02:38:38 pm
Hello! First time posting here, and I must say that this is really such a wonderfully varied and interesting mod. The sheer volume of content is astounding and the way it incorporates elements from so many different influences in a coherent way is really something else. After suffering several game overs shortly after the alien invasion begins in earnest, I've finally managed to reach the later months of 1999 in decent shape, so it's been pretty exciting to finally be able to fight back against our not-so-friendly visitors!

I do have a question though that's been perplexing me for a while, though. Most issues I run into with the game are resolved by simply referring to the detailed and comprehensive in-game UFOpaedia, but I'm having an issue that I haven't been able to find an answer for there nor on the forums:

What causes AI Units to become unrecoverable after getting wrecked in combat? The UFOpaedia entry seems to imply that they should generally (or even always) be recoverable any time a HWP chassis is destroyed during a mission, but I've lost two so far that I'm no longer getting the option to recover via the usual AI Unit Restoration option in the Transformations menu. They'd been destroyed several times before in a variety of ways and restored just fine, so I'm a bit confused as to why sometimes they're lost forever.

One I'd lost early on in the campaign; my Scout Drone took a couple hits from an AKSU-74 on a mission that was eventually aborted with the wreck outside of my transport vehicle, which I thought accounted for the AI Unit becoming lost as well. The other one, though, was destroyed under fairly unremarkable circumstances; my Flying Drone was taken down by a Cyberweb Roboturret's lasers, and upon completing the mission as normal just a turn or two later, I was surprised to find that the option to restore the AI Unit was not available. Nothing happened to the wreck afterwards that would destroy it or interact with it in any way. If it matters, this happened on a Cyberweb Lair mission.

Is there maybe an element of randomness as to whether an AI Unit is recoverable or not? Are there specific conditions that prevent them from being restored? I'm unlocking a lot of interesting new HWP chassis lately and I'd hate to think that I wouldn't get much of a chance to use them. I understand that Alenium Shards are intended to be limited in number, but is there a way of procuring more than the initial three? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on December 31, 2020, 08:58:40 pm


What causes AI Units to become unrecoverable after getting wrecked in combat? The UFOpaedia entry seems to imply that they should generally (or even always) be recoverable any time a HWP chassis is destroyed during a mission, but I've lost two so far that I'm no longer getting the option to recover via the usual AI Unit Restoration option in the Transformations menu. They'd been destroyed several times before in a variety of ways and restored just fine, so I'm a bit confused as to why sometimes they're lost forever.

One I'd lost early on in the campaign; my Scout Drone took a couple hits from an AKSU-74 on a mission that was eventually aborted with the wreck outside of my transport vehicle, which I thought accounted for the AI Unit becoming lost as well. The other one, though, was destroyed under fairly unremarkable circumstances; my Flying Drone was taken down by a Cyberweb Roboturret's lasers, and upon completing the mission as normal just a turn or two later, I was surprised to find that the option to restore the AI Unit was not available. Nothing happened to the wreck afterwards that would destroy it or interact with it in any way. If it matters, this happened on a Cyberweb Lair mission.

Is there maybe an element of randomness as to whether an AI Unit is recoverable or not? Are there specific conditions that prevent them from being restored? I'm unlocking a lot of interesting new HWP chassis lately and I'd hate to think that I wouldn't get much of a chance to use them. I understand that Alenium Shards are intended to be limited in number, but is there a way of procuring more than the initial three? Any guidance would be appreciated.

Energy weapons like lasers or plasma weapons can incernate corpses. This will happen to the enemy too and will kinda suck if you down a rare/hard to kill enemy with valuable corpse but you end up turning it to a ash heap or alloy puddle. Also incernation prevents double-life enemies from peeling to their second form. It kills them outright.

Also, if you run away from a mission, you dont loot anything. If you want to carry anything from a mission you evac from, stuff it in your inventory. In rare circumstances it is easy to just grab one guy you need and running back with him in your backpack and leaving. Or singular item and GTFO out of there.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Pucchimera on January 01, 2021, 05:03:57 am
Energy weapons like lasers or plasma weapons can incernate corpses. This will happen to the enemy too and will kinda suck if you down a rare/hard to kill enemy with valuable corpse but you end up turning it to a ash heap or alloy puddle. Also incernation prevents double-life enemies from peeling to their second form. It kills them outright.
Ah, that may explain this. Not something I've had a need to pay attention to so far, as usually it's been my own agents who got zapped with lasers and the like, and there's nothing to salvage from their corpses anyway regardless of what killed them (maybe not so with more advanced armours, but I've yet to find out). I've been pretty reckless with my AI Units, using them to scout and spot under the assumption that it's no big deal for them to get shot down anyway, but it looks like I'll have to adjust my approach or limit their use on alien missions. I've also just now discovered that units and items on the ground can in fact be interacted with by things other than fire and explosives after a rookie accidentally shot an Osiron Goon who was bleeding out on the ground, so it could even be that the Roboturret hit my drone wreck after it was on the ground already with one of its auto shots, rendering it totally beyond repair if it wasn't fried enough already.

Also, if you run away from a mission, you dont loot anything. If you want to carry anything from a mission you evac from, stuff it in your inventory. In rare circumstances it is easy to just grab one guy you need and running back with him in your backpack and leaving. Or singular item and GTFO out of there.
Oh, I've made extensive use of this mechanic throughout the campaign, saving the precious lives of my agents and at times kidnapping stray aliens or looting equipment on a mission I wouldn't have wanted to seriously attempt. Absolutely comical to imagine one of my agents running back to the transport vehicle with an entire bleeding out Snakeman or Muton in one hand, and since being overencumbered doesn't come with any TU penalties until the next turn, this is something that happens with some frequency.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 01, 2021, 11:30:06 am
Ah, that may explain this. Not something I've had a need to pay attention to so far, as usually it's been my own agents who got zapped with lasers and the like, and there's nothing to salvage from their corpses anyway regardless of what killed them (maybe not so with more advanced armours, but I've yet to find out). I've been pretty reckless with my AI Units, using them to scout and spot under the assumption that it's no big deal for them to get shot down anyway, but it looks like I'll have to adjust my approach or limit their use on alien missions. I've also just now discovered that units and items on the ground can in fact be interacted with by things other than fire and explosives after a rookie accidentally shot an Osiron Goon who was bleeding out on the ground, so it could even be that the Roboturret hit my drone wreck after it was on the ground already with one of its auto shots, rendering it totally beyond repair if it wasn't fried enough already.
Oh, I've made extensive use of this mechanic throughout the campaign, saving the precious lives of my agents and at times kidnapping stray aliens or looting equipment on a mission I wouldn't have wanted to seriously attempt. Absolutely comical to imagine one of my agents running back to the transport vehicle with an entire bleeding out Snakeman or Muton in one hand, and since being overencumbered doesn't come with any TU penalties until the next turn, this is something that happens with some frequency.

On the ground units can be hit yes, this is how you also finish off enemies that are KO you dont want getting back up like zombies, just put a bullet to them while they are down. Or apply handcuffs if they arent prone to break them. Another layer of protection is to simply confiscate their weapons and then either keep them in your baggie or toss them to incassesible place like a roof of a building, tree or something like that. Sectoid has no way to attack you without weapons so even if they wake up they will wander around aimlessly so you can simply walk to them and smack them once more. Saves some cuffs and provides more melee training.

Tanks and more advanced armours can be repaired after battle, its cheaper and quicker than making a new one, but your Agent needs to actually make a corpse, not a heap of ash.

Stuffing singular person was quite handy when Infestor spawned 6 titles away from my helicopter, it only took 3 shotguns firing to KO him, stuffing him to backpack and retreating without having to fight the other +30 zombies. So thats how i unlocked Trasher shotgun very early on. Too bad it took few more months before anyone could use it due to its excessive weight and the other mission requirement, but when they could, one tapping werewolves and majority of enemies is really satisfying.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Hadriex on January 03, 2021, 08:12:08 am
Been playing the Xcom files with my brother, who's experiencing it for the first time :)

We're playing x 1.6,  (we only get to meet up once in awhile as he lives in another town, so it's slow going).

I really love all that's been added since the last time I played. especially the events. And the awards that give little bonuses. Brilliant :)


The game seems a little too generous with osiron loot crates. Maybe it's just the random nature of the game but we got multiple ships and warehouses in a short span. And he kept asking me about all these late-game weapons and such. (I swear we must have opened 30 of the things in one sitting). We were researching MAGMA corp contact before promotion II.

Some directed me to a mod called Vigilo Confido that does some weird stuff adding stealth mechanics, classes, and various special abilities to the game. I can't think of any reason I'd want to play that mod itself (If I wanna play fireaxis style Xcom I'd rather load up the Long War), but it's a curiosity. And it might open the door to some fascinating new possibilities for other modders.

Anyway just wanted to say I'm loving your work, and so's my brother :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 03, 2021, 08:19:08 pm
Been playing the Xcom files with my brother, who's experiencing it for the first time :)

We're playing x 1.6,  (we only get to meet up once in awhile as he lives in another town, so it's slow going).

I really love all that's been added since the last time I played. especially the events. And the awards that give little bonuses. Brilliant :)


The game seems a little too generous with osiron loot crates. Maybe it's just the random nature of the game but we got multiple ships and warehouses in a short span. And he kept asking me about all these late-game weapons and such. (I swear we must have opened 30 of the things in one sitting). We were researching MAGMA corp contact before promotion II.



Getting Osiron stuff is rare but extremely valuable. You should feel lucky you got them that early.
You can loot alien or end game weapons from them, like chem pistol which counts as alien gadget you use in recruitment of chief engineer.
Or things like Gauss weapons. First thing to know is that Gauss weapons are powerful toys otherwise hidden deep in the underground storyline.

Dont get too hyped for MAGMA, the only "freebie" they will let you buy is the cannon, which is pretty much a low capacity, supped up rifle that can fire buckshots, AP rounds, explosive or incendiary rounds. Not bad weapon, but quite heavy and requires good shooter and TU management. Also one of the few ways in the early game to ignite enemies from a distance.

Most of the actually good stuff comes from missions you get from them, these have prequisites and they are one of a time thing, once you complete them, they wont spawn again. And these missions are the problem. The first one is reasonable with blackops weapons, but in others you will need Promotion III gear to not get atomized. Also some other rewards require you sharing tech with this corporation which pisses of council.

First mission needs you to have a life capture of zombies, fat zombies and infestors and this first mission, once completed will reward you with a double barreled shotgun, this thing will one shot most enemies in the game unless they have armour. So animals and creatures will be dropping dead from full health if they get hit. God tier weapon i overlooked in my first two playthroughs and i regret it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 04, 2021, 10:39:55 am
Is the UAC office raid suppose to be concealment only ? Because 14 enemies armed with deadly weapons that will easily penetrate bullet proof coats seems abit excessive. Also with - 400 score penalty if it despawns (for a concealment only mission, other missions have like minus 10 or 20 if they despawn).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: TheCurse on January 04, 2021, 05:12:54 pm
the map layout makes it rather easy.
if you go in with mostly melee stun, you can have it easily in like 2-3 turns...
the easier the mission, the larger the despawn penalty.
(also urgency of the mission is kinda applied, thats why this has so much)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 04, 2021, 06:13:22 pm
the map layout makes it rather easy.
if you go in with mostly melee stun, you can have it easily in like 2-3 turns...
the easier the mission, the larger the despawn penalty.
(also urgency of the mission is kinda applied, thats why this has so much)

I am not sure easier=larger despawn penalty is applicable. Pretty much all other stealth missions have minimal penalties and some of them sound serious.
Osiron staketout ? 20 points
Syndicate data seizure ? 10 points

I mentioned the massive penalty because i managed to get 3 of these mission in one month so thats - 1200 points, so thats like ignoring a terror mission and then one creature slaughter one and some minor  mission on top of it. Like that RNG was just salt in my wound after i had to fend of MiB assaulting my main base with like five tanks, sectopod, 3 power armour troopers and tons of assholes armed with plasma weapons. But even on its own, 400 its way too much.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 07, 2021, 12:40:12 pm
Well, I think you get too many points on average... :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Pucchimera on January 10, 2021, 09:17:34 am
I don't know if this is a mod-specific issue, but I've noticed a few times that some of my agents' deaths get attributed to another agent's (or in one case, their own!) Smoke Grenade. The couple of times that I've observed this were when an agent died from fatal damage from some previous injury while standing or lying unconscious in smoke deployed by a friendly unit. This awards the Betrayer commendation to the innocent agent who just wanted to protect their squadmates, causing severe mental trauma and reducing their Bravery score. Not a huge issue, but I thought I'd report it anyway since it's probably unintended behaviour.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Ronios on January 10, 2021, 11:05:09 am
I don't know if this is a mod-specific issue, but I've noticed a few times that some of my agents' deaths get attributed to another agent's (or in one case, their own!) Smoke Grenade. The couple of times that I've observed this were when an agent died from fatal damage from some previous injury while standing or lying unconscious in smoke deployed by a friendly unit. This awards the Betrayer commendation to the innocent agent who just wanted to protect their squadmates, causing severe mental trauma and reducing their Bravery score. Not a huge issue, but I thought I'd report it anyway since it's probably unintended behaviour.

This is not a bug. A smoke grenade "attacks" everyone who is in the smoke zone every turn, and when someone dies from bleeding, then the last "attack" in your case falls on the smoke. This is how the whole OpenXcom works.

Likewise, you can hit someone who is bleeding with a non-lethal weapon, and if nothing else hits him and he dies of bleeding, then the murder will count towards that strike of a non-lethal weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Meridian on January 10, 2021, 11:28:26 am
This is not a bug. A smoke grenade "attacks" everyone who is in the smoke zone every turn, and when someone dies from bleeding, then the last "attack" in your case falls on the smoke. This is how the whole OpenXcom works.

Nope, that's not how OXCE works.
Smoke grenade doesn't attack every turn, only the initial blast counts towards any statistics.

And in OpenXcom, not even the initial blast counts... as far as I know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Bananas_Akimbo on January 12, 2021, 12:53:25 am
I don't know how serious you are about weapon realism, but I just found out about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EORd-c8EEc

Bows and crossbows don't actually work underwater. The bow limbs get slowed down so much by the water, that barely any energy is transferred into the arrow/bolt.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 12, 2021, 02:24:03 pm
I don't know how serious you are about weapon realism, but I just found out about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EORd-c8EEc

Bows and crossbows don't actually work underwater. The bow limbs get slowed down so much by the water, that barely any energy is transferred into the arrow/bolt.

AFAIK it mostly depends on the weapon and ammo (Tod actually mentions this  in the end). And any crossbow will perform poorly when compared to shooting above surface. But it more or less works:


Of course, many normal guns would also more or less work underwater, despite being excluded by the mod... But that's another simplification.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on January 13, 2021, 10:44:46 pm
I've been snooping around the github directory and so far it seems next update will be a big one, with new gear, modifications to the existing stuff and finally a reward for
completing the zombie arc!

Alas, I have a doubt: It's been modified that Psi Defense now uses an agent's Bravery instead of the Psionic Strength stat, which makes cowardly agents twice as useless now. However, Bravery can be trained, which means that an agent with high Bravery but no Psionic power still has uses. The question is:
Do aliens still use as a favorite target an unit with Psionic Strength 0 ? In the original game they laser-focused on these guys due having no resistance against psychic attacks, which allowed you to use baits in order to avoid having your team being mindraped to death. With the swap of Psi Defense's stat use, does this behaviour still remain?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 14, 2021, 03:47:35 am
Do aliens still use as a favorite target an unit with Psionic Strength 0 ? In the original game they laser-focused on these guys due having no resistance against psychic attacks, which allowed you to use baits in order to avoid having your team being mindraped to death. With the swap of Psi Defense's stat use, does this behaviour still remain?

I don't know exactly, but I think they still attack the weakest link. The formula to determine psi defence is different, but my guess is that the aliens only look at the final number, regardless of how it's been calculated. Still, it's just a guess.

Keep looking at the changes for more goodies ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 14, 2021, 09:29:46 am
Oh yes, it does sound interesting.
What also is it seems my prayers in other thread about resistances vests and platings was heard too since we are getting a concussive resistance vest, akin to silk wear.
Also bonus props for making a new item you can make from creatures :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on January 15, 2021, 11:24:22 pm
I can definitely confirm that the aliens will still attack whoever has the lowest PSI Strength (no soldiers have PSI skill yet in my game).

That actually brings up a question I have. How do aliens gain targets for PSI attacks? I remember in the original TFTD and UFO they had some weird rule that if the aliens could see any of your soldiers then all of your soldiers can be targeted, and they remembered your soldiers' positions for a few turns after (so they could keep getting targeted). This resulted in a bunch of guys in the back of the Skyranger/Triton getting attacked all the time. It was one of the lamest and most frustrating things about the original games, resulting in me quitting the game on multiple occasions. Even though I know how to deal with that now, at the time as a kid, it felt so impossible to overcome.

In my most recent encounter in X-Com Files, I had some guys outside of a UFO with the leader inside. Once some of them approached the side of the UFO, they started getting attacked. There was no way any of my those soldiers were able to be seen by any alien (though some other soldiers did get spotted a few turns past. Do the leaders have PSI sense, or is the targeting just like old-school UFO/TFTD?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on January 16, 2021, 12:17:46 am
I also have an observation / question -- are the Cult Safehouses now completely optional? I noticed that the lowest tier cultists that you get from Investigations can give you the Network topic which leads to Outposts. I seem to remember in previous versions that the lowest tier used to only give you the safehouse, and you get the next tier (Exalt Goons, Red Dawn Lads, etc.) would give you the Network.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on January 16, 2021, 10:55:37 am
I can definitely confirm that the aliens will still attack whoever has the lowest PSI Strength (no soldiers have PSI skill yet in my game).
Thanks! Sadly, that makes it just like the OG, but worse, since now you need good bravery for everyone. Thankfully it is an easy stat to gain IIRC.


That actually brings up a question I have. How do aliens gain targets for PSI attacks? I remember in the original TFTD and UFO they had some weird rule that if the aliens could see any of your soldiers then all of your soldiers can be targeted, and they remembered your soldiers' positions for a few turns after (so they could keep getting targeted). This resulted in a bunch of guys in the back of the Skyranger/Triton getting attacked all the time. It was one of the lamest and most frustrating things about the original games, resulting in me quitting the game on multiple occasions. Even though I know how to deal with that now, at the time as a kid, it felt so impossible to overcome.

In my most recent encounter in X-Com Files, I had some guys outside of a UFO with the leader inside. Once some of them approached the side of the UFO, they started getting attacked. There was no way any of my those soldiers were able to be seen by any alien (though some other soldiers did get spotted a few turns past. Do the leaders have PSI sense, or is the targeting just like old-school UFO/TFTD?

Just like the OG games, if an alien meets one of your guys, said unit can be targeted by EVERY psychic alien. Unlike you, most of the aliens don't need the "must see target" condition. I haven't checked with all aliens, but Sectoids do that IIRC. Ethereals would make sense to do as well, since they're all about psychic power.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: TheCurse on January 16, 2021, 11:03:12 am
they have psi vision, so they can sense your presence through walls ´n such.
however, psi attacks are weaker the further away from target... so it is different from OG.
(would be pretty cool if they´d factor that in when deciding who to attack, but well they do not)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on January 16, 2021, 11:11:50 am
I made an observation myself.

My standard procedure against PSI enemies is to make sure, that anybody with PSI Strength below 40 is harmless to other soldiers. (Stun and weak weapons only).
But in my last mission, an attack on an Ethereal base, I made sure that everybody had 50+ PSI Strength. The Ethereals did not use Psi even once.

So it seems, that they only try PSI on people with low enough defences.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on January 16, 2021, 08:07:25 pm
they have psi vision, so they can sense your presence through walls ´n such.
however, psi attacks are weaker the further away from target... so it is different from OG.
I think that last line applies to your troops, not sure about aliens.

I made an observation myself.

My standard procedure against PSI enemies is to make sure, that anybody with PSI Strength below 40 is harmless to other soldiers. (Stun and weak weapons only).

So it seems, that they only try PSI on people with low enough defences.

Did you try to see what happens if you send someone with low Bravery but high to moderate Psi Power?
How does one increase Bravery besides using medikits on other people by the way?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on January 16, 2021, 08:50:43 pm
Did you try to see what happens if you send someone with low Bravery but high to moderate Psi Power?
How does one increase Bravery besides using medikits on other people by the way?

I retroactively checked. The lowest bravery person who survived the mission was Captain Emere Mauwhata.
Bravery: 30
Psi Strength: 72
Psi Skill: 24
I do not know what Psi Power is, though. I will assume you mean Psi Strength.
Also with the Power or Flying suit (I am not certain which he had, but I know he had one of those), his Psi Defence would be 0.2*30+0.2*24+1*72+0.33*Morale = 6+4.8+72+0.33*Morale = 82.8+0.33*Morale, based on current versions stats.

The vanilla way to increse bravery is to go not panic. Every turn a soldier could panic (Morale<50), but does not, their chance of getting a +10 to bravery increases, up to a limit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Meridian on January 17, 2021, 10:35:24 am
I don't know if this is a mod-specific issue, but I've noticed a few times that some of my agents' deaths get attributed to another agent's (or in one case, their own!) Smoke Grenade. The couple of times that I've observed this were when an agent died from fatal damage from some previous injury while standing or lying unconscious in smoke deployed by a friendly unit. This awards the Betrayer commendation to the innocent agent who just wanted to protect their squadmates, causing severe mental trauma and reducing their Bravery score. Not a huge issue, but I thought I'd report it anyway since it's probably unintended behaviour.

This is not a bug. A smoke grenade "attacks" everyone who is in the smoke zone every turn, and when someone dies from bleeding, then the last "attack" in your case falls on the smoke. This is how the whole OpenXcom works.

Nope, that's not how OXCE works.
Smoke grenade doesn't attack every turn, only the initial blast counts towards any statistics.

And in OpenXcom, not even the initial blast counts... as far as I know.

I have improved the "last attack" tracking somewhat yesterday: https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commit/98eab651918225660ddf0cacc34c84b3eaed43d3

If an attacker does zero or negative health damage, the victim already has a record of a previous attack and the victim is either on fire, has fatal wounds or has negative health regen... the attacker will not override the previous attack record.

Not 100% foolproof, but it should help in most cases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 17, 2021, 04:54:40 pm
I think that last line applies to your troops, not sure about aliens.

The formula is the same.

Actually, in OG distance also played a role, but it was very marginal.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Slaughter on January 18, 2021, 11:55:59 pm
Hey hey folks, back to this fantastic mod after a good while. Playing this on my Android really helped carry me over when I was computer-less during the epidemic (thanks Meridian for doing the Android version btw).

So, I noticed you changed the attack of the Bombardier Beetle, from that bullshit OP AOE fire attack, to a fire spit. That's fantastic, because every red strange creature having an AOE Fire attack was so much bullshit.

Did you guys do something with the behavior of melee foes? They seem to be more consistently charging and less scared than before.

Would you guys believe my first mission was an Exobiological Contamination? I shot an Abomination, dragged the body and straight-out noped out of there. Didn't even get to see Abominations before, but I have bad recordations of those missions. Too bad for all the civvies there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: tarkalak on January 19, 2021, 02:01:08 pm
I also have an observation / question -- are the Cult Safehouses now completely optional? I noticed that the lowest tier cultists that you get from Investigations can give you the Network topic which leads to Outposts. I seem to remember in previous versions that the lowest tier used to only give you the safehouse, and you get the next tier (Exalt Goons, Red Dawn Lads, etc.) would give you the Network.

A long time ago there were no Cult Apprehensions, only Safehouses. The Safehouses are unlocked from the start, but show up later and less often then Apprehensions. It has been like that ever since I started playing X-Com files (1.5 - 2 years ago).

I had the same false memory as you. It is logical, since everything else is unlocked one mission at a time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Xenotrenium on January 19, 2021, 02:39:33 pm
Is Storm used for anything except it's own research? I was stockpiling a lot of Storm, but the Enhancement for X-COM personnel apparently does not need it. The wiki says that Storm is not used for anything - is this intentional or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 19, 2021, 04:55:01 pm
Hey hey folks, back to this fantastic mod after a good while. Playing this on my Android really helped carry me over when I was computer-less during the epidemic (thanks Meridian for doing the Android version btw).

So, I noticed you changed the attack of the Bombardier Beetle, from that bullshit OP AOE fire attack, to a fire spit. That's fantastic, because every red strange creature having an AOE Fire attack was so much bullshit.

Did you guys do something with the behavior of melee foes? They seem to be more consistently charging and less scared than before.

Would you guys believe my first mission was an Exobiological Contamination? I shot an Abomination, dragged the body and straight-out noped out of there. Didn't even get to see Abominations before, but I have bad recordations of those missions. Too bad for all the civvies there.


Having the contamination as first mission is just cruel bad luck, hell even with hazmat suits and larger crafts like helicopters i rather think twice before doing them because if you get those spitter enemies then it kinda sucks not having toxisuits or...power armour to tank the acid spat at you across the map as your starting weapons only chip their health. Or the swarmids that take little damage from bullets,  my paranoia paid off and those 2 flamethrowers sitting at the pile, "just in case" went to use.

It was one of moments i already predicted going in to this mod for the first time, that the game will throw at me some sort of enemy thats like lol ur weapons are useless, retreat commander !. But atleast mod isnt trying to pull some stupid stuff and resistances do make sense and there was alot of thought put in to it. A giant swarm of insects vs bullets ? Yeah i can see why hitting that with bullets aint gona be easy.

And i also learned that fire = works pretty much against anything but you have limited range, making using it risky.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 19, 2021, 06:19:14 pm
Hey hey folks, back to this fantastic mod after a good while. Playing this on my Android really helped carry me over when I was computer-less during the epidemic (thanks Meridian for doing the Android version btw).

Hey man, welcome back! It's good to see you again.

So, I noticed you changed the attack of the Bombardier Beetle, from that bullshit OP AOE fire attack, to a fire spit. That's fantastic, because every red strange creature having an AOE Fire attack was so much bullshit.

I did? Possibly. I guess it must've been a long time ago...

Did you guys do something with the behavior of melee foes? They seem to be more consistently charging and less scared than before.

If you mean zombies, it depends on the version you're playing. Recently Meridian made some changes to the Leeroy Jenkins mode, making such units more aggressive, but only a few units use it (primarily zombies). I'm not sure whether this change made it to release already.

If you mean other units, then probably no changes.

Would you guys believe my first mission was an Exobiological Contamination? I shot an Abomination, dragged the body and straight-out noped out of there. Didn't even get to see Abominations before, but I have bad recordations of those missions. Too bad for all the civvies there.

Wow! Interesting, and very unique.

A long time ago there were no Cult Apprehensions, only Safehouses. The Safehouses are unlocked from the start, but show up later and less often then Apprehensions. It has been like that ever since I started playing X-Com files (1.5 - 2 years ago).

Yes indeed, except Safehouses do not appear from the very start of the game - you need to interrogate any live cultist of the appropriate faction and then wait for the next month. Otherwise they have no limits.

Is Storm used for anything except it's own research? I was stockpiling a lot of Storm, but the Enhancement for X-COM personnel apparently does not need it. The wiki says that Storm is not used for anything - is this intentional or am I mistaken?

Indeed Storm is useless. The Doctor can make better stuff once she gets the idea how, so you have no need for the Storm, as it's a cheap knockoff.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Xenotrenium on January 19, 2021, 07:47:37 pm
Indeed Storm is useless. The Doctor can make better stuff once she gets the idea how, so you have no need for the Storm, as it's a cheap knockoff.

Thanks for the info, although I personally find this somewhat disappointing actually. I love the idea of juggling different non-reproducible resources from missions\raids, at least for a limited time until XCOM can research something they can reproduce. I think there is a mission called Storm Raid or something which I thought would be super cool to have for a sort of scavenger approach. Perhaps you could consider making a use of Storm? Just a suggestion ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 19, 2021, 07:55:32 pm
Thanks for the info, although I personally find this somewhat disappointing actually. I love the idea of juggling different non-reproducible resources from missions\raids, at least for a limited time until XCOM can research something they can reproduce. I think there is a mission called Storm Raid or something which I thought would be super cool to have for a sort of scavenger approach. Perhaps you could consider making a use of Storm? Just a suggestion ;)

I understand, but never found a logical solution. I guess I could add a way to refine Storm into something useful, namely an ingredient needed for the Bio-Enhancement... But I wouldn't want the player to be left hanging if not enough Storm.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Xenotrenium on January 19, 2021, 08:35:37 pm
How about either of the following?

-New transormation that is unlocked earlier than XCOM one, cheaper in cost (require Storm instead) and less powerful. Also fewer stat requirements. Increase research requirement for regular XCOM-transformation?

-Make XCOM enhancement need Storm (automatic\abstracted refinement\modification for safe utilization by XCOM agents), but make Storm like Durathread and\or Alloys. You can reproduce it AFTER you understand how to USE it, so that in time you will be able to not worry too much about having it, but still go through the early phase of wanting Storm for transformations for your top guys.

No matter how you decide to do it, I am mostly looking for the game-wise mechanic of simply having more stuff to micromanage in a high scarcity environment.


Not to spam suggestions, but I've always thought the guns on the APCs from 40k (the actual XCOM crafts) would be a PERFECT fit for either the mudranger or the humvee. Thoughts on implementing such a functionality? Having a heavy gun like that would go a long way towards making some landing sites more manageable, and perhaps even sensible considering every xcom craft mission landing is borderline suicidal :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 19, 2021, 11:09:38 pm
How about either of the following?


Not to spam suggestions, but I've always thought the guns on the APCs from 40k (the actual XCOM crafts) would be a PERFECT fit for either the mudranger or the humvee. Thoughts on implementing such a functionality? Having a heavy gun like that would go a long way towards making some landing sites more manageable, and perhaps even sensible considering every xcom craft mission landing is borderline suicidal :P

The thing is, how you deal with the ambush is part of the game. Smokes works wonders, smoke the ramp before leaving, also just letting the first turn just pass so enemies can scatter and lose TU to prevent reaction fire before you leaving your vehicle.
With tanks it will be easier since you can roll them out first and let them tank the reaction fire. But the most help will be from certain landing crafts. Not all have one ramp. Some have side doors you can pop up from (and these doors always close at the end of the turn so you can spray and pray and end turn with 0 consequences from the enemy since your troops will break LoS). Some have staircases...
Some even have a benefit of being above ground so you can hide your men beneath it to avoid long range grenade snipes across the map.
For example, Skyrmarshall has 2 side doors alongside the main one.
Ironfist has a staircase to the roof and you can use the staircase to throw grenades out of it. And you can also stand beneath it.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: misha_cilantro on January 20, 2021, 02:18:43 am
Hey Solarius, just started playing two weeks ago and this is the most fun I've had with an X-Com-like in forever. Maybe more than War of the Chosen?! Maybe! It's just so fun, and I love how it veers towards some ridiculous stuff--it really does feel like the X-Files. (And/or someone's homebrew Delta Green campaign where they added rats. I just built a rat farm!)

Anyway, here's my unasked for suggestion: megaphones! Sometimes I can't get close to a cultist to stun them without heavy losses, but after taking out enough people I've had them panic and surrender, and that's really satisfying. What if you could use a megaphone to do morale damage (after some requirements are met??) -- the old "we have you surrounded, come out with your hands up, you have no chance!" etc.

Also, question, do you have a donation thing that isn't Patreon? I don't use it, but would still like to donate!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: misha_cilantro on January 20, 2021, 02:20:08 am
Whoops, nevermind, found the donation page!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Xenotrenium on January 20, 2021, 02:54:40 am
The thing is, how you deal with the ambush is part of the game.

Yep, I agree - choosing the humvee over the heli because of that big gun could be one way you would deal with the (potential) ambush, not to mention the cool factor. It's not like you deal with ambushes without preparing for them anyway, smokes and pre-primed grenades are just another tool akin to the gunnery of the humvee imho. I am not advocating for this feature because I think landings are hard, but because it sounds cool and adds some extra considerations to which craft you want to pick. It coincidentally mitigates the disadvantage for bad landings, allowing you to consider staying in missions you'd normally take off instantly - and might serve as a natural power-stop to essentially always win against super-low-tier stuff. Making the humvee stand out from other crafts, such as the van (ok I know the van gets -1 guy) and rover (ok the rover gets +1 guy and is covert) would be cool too. I personally think it fits the entire "war" feel and sounds awesome.

There are further considerations such as anti-creature operations, special missions in which the difficulty must be maintained (alien hunt, military downed alien etc), what happens when the vehicle is in smoke (what is the no LOS penalty?), can the vehicle\weapon be targeted\damaged\destroyed? Is the weapon free of use or does it come with some cost associated with it?

I don't know how it works in 40k - If there is an obvious reason as to why it should not be implemented then I probably don't know enough to know about it yet :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 20, 2021, 01:57:28 pm
How about either of the following?

-New transormation that is unlocked earlier than XCOM one, cheaper in cost (require Storm instead) and less powerful. Also fewer stat requirements. Increase research requirement for regular XCOM-transformation?

While I understand your point, I would have to de facto separate the bio-enhancement procedure into two phases, each of them having like half the value or so. This would not only feel like a filler, but also increase the micromanagement aspect for no gain. Also, it sort of conflicts with the lore that Storm is dangerous and unreliable.

-Make XCOM enhancement need Storm (automatic\abstracted refinement\modification for safe utilization by XCOM agents), but make Storm like Durathread and\or Alloys. You can reproduce it AFTER you understand how to USE it, so that in time you will be able to not worry too much about having it, but still go through the early phase of wanting Storm for transformations for your top guys.

This sounds better. The proposed model would be:
- Find and research Storm;
- Research X-Com Bio-Enhancement (same prerequisites as now),
- Make the bio-enhancement procedure require some chemical which is essentially perfected Storm,
- Add a new manufacturing project to purify Storm into perfected Storm,
- Add some other research project to create perfected Storm from scratch (what would be the prerequisites?),
- Add another manufacturing project to create perfected Storm from scratch (any ingredients necessary?)

Honestly it feels rather convoluted just to give Storm some usage, but I'm not saying no - ideas welcome.

Not to spam suggestions, but I've always thought the guns on the APCs from 40k (the actual XCOM crafts) would be a PERFECT fit for either the mudranger or the humvee. Thoughts on implementing such a functionality? Having a heavy gun like that would go a long way towards making some landing sites more manageable, and perhaps even sensible considering every xcom craft mission landing is borderline suicidal :P

It's a possibility, but there are three problems to consider:
1) Such vehicles would require Promo 3, as it's clearly very military tech. Even Machine Guns License would be insufficient IMO.
2) It would open a Pandora's box of "which other crafts should have turrets", and it's not a direction I like.
3) Turrets would probably steal the thunder too much. If they were actually operated by an agent, it would be different...

Hey Solarius, just started playing two weeks ago and this is the most fun I've had with an X-Com-like in forever. Maybe more than War of the Chosen?! Maybe! It's just so fun, and I love how it veers towards some ridiculous stuff--it really does feel like the X-Files. (And/or someone's homebrew Delta Green campaign where they added rats. I just built a rat farm!)

Hello, and thank you!
A fellow Cthulhu player, huh? It was my first RPG system! :)

Anyway, here's my unasked for suggestion: megaphones! Sometimes I can't get close to a cultist to stun them without heavy losses, but after taking out enough people I've had them panic and surrender, and that's really satisfying. What if you could use a megaphone to do morale damage (after some requirements are met??) -- the old "we have you surrounded, come out with your hands up, you have no chance!" etc.

The idea actually has surfaced a few times, but the technicalities are pretty difficult here - basically we can't make it a directional "cone" attack, and I don't know how to make your own people immune to this effect... Not to mention it should only work on enemies who have the concept of language or at least really hate loud megaphone noises.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on January 21, 2021, 04:01:25 am
Hopefully you'll be able to convince Meridian to add a cone effect to the game! It seems like it wouldn't be a bad thing to have in addition to the circle effect. Maybe a line effect and wall effect too, if we're going to go full DnD.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: misha_cilantro on January 21, 2021, 10:44:28 pm
I'm not surprised it's difficult. I was hopped up on excitement for the game, though, and had to make a suggestion :D A single-target or grenade attack with long range would work, though that's highly abstracted. But the dog's bark works like that, so it's not sound attacks aren't abstracted similarly elsewhere. Limit just to human targets?

A cone attack would be a cool addition, though I'm sure there's a huge list of wants for OXC just as there is for this mod, haha!

Re: Cthulhu RPG -- heck yeah, it's my favorite! I love what they've done with the latest version, too. And the new Delta Green is a different, also-fantastic take! Now I'm imagining a full reskin of X-Com taking place in the 20s, running around the world fighting cultists and monsters and researching creepy artifacts. Cast magic, lose sanity! :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on January 21, 2021, 11:05:46 pm
Regarding cones, could it be approximated with a shotgun mechanic with many pellets and very low accuracy?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on January 21, 2021, 11:23:10 pm
Re: Cthulhu RPG -- heck yeah, it's my favorite! I love what they've done with the latest version, too. And the new Delta Green is a different, also-fantastic take! Now I'm imagining a full reskin of X-Com taking place in the 20s, running around the world fighting cultists and monsters and researching creepy artifacts. Cast magic, lose sanity! :D

That would be an awesome mod. To be totally honest, I actually enjoy X-Com Files most in the early game, before 1999. There's something fascinating about kind of working in the shadows and it'd be neat to build a whole game around it. Maybe one day we'll get full scripting support in the battle-scape, and we'll be able to generate all sorts of missions besides basically "neutralize/capture all targets".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 22, 2021, 10:32:04 am
Late game is still mostly a placeholder. Working on it! ;)

As for the bark, it's effectively just a  single shot weapon. Which is fine, as the dog generally barks at one person at a time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Bonakva on January 27, 2021, 01:02:54 pm
I love storming the Red Dawn base...

Is it possible to speed up the game? Even stronger than the settings.
I changed the ammo hitAnimation: -1. This significantly accelerated my and the enemy's moves. But there is a slight delay in displaying panic from enemies. You can skip the notification by pressing LMB. Is it possible to remove all notification delays?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on January 31, 2021, 08:25:31 pm
After one deployment i realized that plasma sword is a two handed weapon... is this intended ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: MasterYoghourt on January 31, 2021, 11:16:01 pm
I think it would be good idea to add COVID-19 event to the game. Of course not literally.

Let the Cult of Apocalypse spread virus cousing people to change into zombies (game missions). Motivation for Cult to do this would be invocation of false first horseman, false prophet - plague. False becouse first horseman should be the conqueror, according to st.John's Revelation. As investigation proceed player get information that virus is called RIDER-19. Next, there would be a clue that Syndicate could make this virus for Cult of Apocalypse. Final stage could be destroying Syndicate Lab that produces virus. Last message for this mision would be that there is vaccacine for this virus produced and delivered to countries all over the world ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 01, 2021, 12:22:29 pm
I think it would be good idea to add COVID-19 event to the game. Of course not literally.

Let the Cult of Apocalypse spread virus cousing people to change into zombies (game missions). Motivation for Cult to do this would be invocation of false first horseman, false prophet - plague. False becouse first horseman should be the conqueror, according to st.John's Revelation. As investigation proceed player get information that virus is called RIDER-19. Next, there would be a clue that Syndicate could make this virus for Cult of Apocalypse. Final stage could be destroying Syndicate Lab that produces virus. Last message for this mision would be that there is vaccacine for this virus produced and delivered to countries all over the world ;)

You know, this kinda actually made me wonder why no faction tried to wipe out humanity with any kind of bioweapon, zombies are there but they are quite laughable since they can only reproduce via infestors so their numbers couldnt ever skyrocket too much to be a world wide threat.

Though it makes sense on other hand that Aliens dont want to just eradicate life on Earth, they want to play with us, experiment on us. And this could have backfired since the entire world would go full alert, XCOM funding and support would skyrocket and tons of XCOM like organisations would start popping up around the world.

In UFO Aftermath, after some point, Earth is infected by a growth of alien origin and it spreads across the entire planet, destroying life and your bases... but in Aftermath the aliens really want to just kill us, no infiltration, no colab with Earth factions (Up to a point).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 01, 2021, 02:36:44 pm
I think it would be good idea to add COVID-19 event to the game. Of course not literally.

Let the Cult of Apocalypse spread virus cousing people to change into zombies (game missions). Motivation for Cult to do this would be invocation of false first horseman, false prophet - plague. False becouse first horseman should be the conqueror, according to st.John's Revelation. As investigation proceed player get information that virus is called RIDER-19. Next, there would be a clue that Syndicate could make this virus for Cult of Apocalypse. Final stage could be destroying Syndicate Lab that produces virus. Last message for this mision would be that there is vaccacine for this virus produced and delivered to countries all over the world ;)

CoA would possibly be up for something like this, yeah... ;)

You know, this kinda actually made me wonder why no faction tried to wipe out humanity with any kind of bioweapon

Because they're not silly?

Why would they want to do such a thing? How would it benefit them?

zombies are there but they are quite laughable since they can only reproduce via infestors so their numbers couldnt ever skyrocket too much to be a world wide threat.

Zombies aren't even a faction before they develop human-like intelligence. And then they stop breeding uncontrollably.

In UFO Aftermath, after some point, Earth is infected by a growth of alien origin and it spreads across the entire planet, destroying life and your bases... but in Aftermath the aliens really want to just kill us, no infiltration, no colab with Earth factions (Up to a point).

In the UFO series, the aliens had completely different goals, so it's hard to compare.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: EmoNewtype on February 01, 2021, 06:28:11 pm
Just my two cents, but I don't feel like having a reference to COVID in the mod would be a good idea. It seems a bit tasteless to parody/poke fun at a pandemic that is still actively killing people as we speak. I feel like a "four horsemen" sub-arc with Apoc would be cool, and I don't have any issues with a bioweapon plot line in general, but tying it to COVID directly or indirectly through a parody name like RIDER-19 feels disrespectful to people who've been affected by the virus.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: MasterYoghourt on February 01, 2021, 09:40:57 pm
Just my two cents, but I don't feel like having a reference to COVID in the mod would be a good idea. It seems a bit tasteless to parody/poke fun at a pandemic that is still actively killing people as we speak. I feel like a "four horsemen" sub-arc with Apoc would be cool, and I don't have any issues with a bioweapon plot line in general, but tying it to COVID directly or indirectly through a parody name like RIDER-19 feels disrespectful to people who've been affected by the virus.

Lot of games directly reference to real tragedies like WW2 and there is no problem. Why COVID is different ?

I don't take COVID presence in game as a parody. In this game are many occultistic and paranormal cases, that are speculated or examined in real life. COVID is another mysterious case, with many questions without answer. Example, in my country there is 1 million registered people with cancer disease (my country population is about 37 millions). And every year more than 100 000 is dying from cancer. But nobody is speaking about this, there is no lockdown, no investigation, nobody raises alarm in TV. So why plague is more important than cancer for establishment in my country ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Fomka on February 02, 2021, 11:47:04 am
...Example, in my country there is 1 million registered people with cancer disease (my country population is about 37 millions). And every year more than 100 000 is dying from cancer. ...
Wait-wait-wait, what is your country? Facts do not match. The worst country by Cancer Death Rate is Mongolia, there are 210 deaths per 100 000 people per year. Your picture is fantastic.

See https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/all-cancers/by-country/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on February 02, 2021, 12:02:11 pm
So why plague is more important than cancer for establishment in my country ?
Not that I think it belongs to a game thread, but the reason would be that cancer does not spread from person to person, so raising alarm about it would mostly be meaningless.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: MasterYoghourt on February 02, 2021, 12:33:02 pm
Wait-wait-wait, what is your country? Facts do not match. The worst country by Cancer Death Rate is Mongolia, there are 210 deaths per 100 000 people per year. Your picture is fantastic.

See https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/all-cancers/by-country/

That's why it's always good idea to choose proffesional source of knowledge.

See WHO/GCO report : https://gco.iarc.fr/today/data/factsheets/populations/616-poland-fact-sheets.pdf
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: MasterYoghourt on February 02, 2021, 12:47:50 pm
Not that I think it belongs to a game thread, but the reason would be that cancer does not spread from person to person, so raising alarm about it would mostly be meaningless.

Of course not, becouse cancer has got it's environmental origins. So, there are ways to reduce sickness that could be spread through massmedia. Just there is no will in establishment to do this. We can assume that current state is expected to be as it is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Xenotrenium on February 03, 2021, 03:08:21 pm
Warning wall of text incoming - TL;DR: Add new mode to polearms & similar items that allow melee attacks from range.

How does having melee weapons with "reach" sound? Similar to the
Big ugly Frog
with it's
Ranged attack tongue that deals stun
one could have melee weapons and creatures with "melee" capabilities.

Each melee weapon could then have a "ranged" attack in addition to it's melee. A pitchfork for instance would be able to reach out one tile and also attack in melee normally. Halberds, Pikes, Spears could have a range of 2, while Whips and similar items could have a range of 3. Explosive-tipped lances (1concussive ammo attack, no battlescape reload)?

Utilizing spears on creatures to avoid reaction melees (I can finally utilize those pitchforks?) might be a thing. Having a wall of pikes brace against an incoming charging reaper (hopefully without the weird stealthy ai behaviour) would be pretty cool. Engaging Black Lotus with pitchforks sounds stupid so there is that, discounting throwing knives and guns of course. In addition, also discounting their poison-tipped Nakinata-wielders (wound stat +++). Deep One Spears would also benefit.

Weapons with reach will also dissuade you or the enemy from taking a step back and simply firing their guns if you give the ranged attack a "snap" mode.

Weapons with reach is obviously very powerful compared to those without, as history shows as well. In game I believe that the close 1-tile melee attack ought to be less accurate\powerful where there are reach attacks to create an "optimal" range. Get close to enemies with reach if you only have short-range melee weapons or stay at a distance if vice versa.

Now why all this? I think it adds a bit of extra flavor to melee, possibly making both strange creature missions more interesting as well as opening up a new dimension for melee combat. I don't know how feasible this is so if something can't be done or there is a good reasoning for why this can't or shouldn't be then I would not know about it.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2021, 03:10:13 pm
Just my two cents, but I don't feel like having a reference to COVID in the mod would be a good idea. It seems a bit tasteless to parody/poke fun at a pandemic that is still actively killing people as we speak. I feel like a "four horsemen" sub-arc with Apoc would be cool, and I don't have any issues with a bioweapon plot line in general, but tying it to COVID directly or indirectly through a parody name like RIDER-19 feels disrespectful to people who've been affected by the virus.

Yes, this is exactly what I think, and I interpreted the original request to be along the same line.

Sorry if I misunderstood. I would never do something like that, and I believe the mod as is proves it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on February 04, 2021, 09:02:33 am
Anyway, here's my unasked for suggestion: megaphones! Sometimes I can't get close to a cultist to stun them without heavy losses, but after taking out enough people I've had them panic and surrender, and that's really satisfying. What if you could use a megaphone to do morale damage (after some requirements are met??) -- the old "we have you surrounded, come out with your hands up, you have no chance!" etc.

I think there are lots of ways to stun enemies already, and I do like that stunning enemies carries an extra degree of risk and difficulty. I do have a different idea for megaphone though -- maybe you can use it to affect civilians / neutrals. Using the megaphone on one should be an automatic hit, and on their turn, they will just move toward your landing site and stay there. It would help greatly in keeping civvies out of harm's way in lots of missions, and also speed things up (once they get close to your craft, they stay there and stop moving, making the end-turn phase go faster). It might not be possible in the current game engine though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 12, 2021, 12:37:42 pm
I played this mod a lot in the last couple of days. I really liked it, but it is getting more and more stressful with UFOs busting my balls and score, and I don't think my Van or Military Jeep can intercept them. I probably researched something wrong and triggered all sorts of things, my best guess is the Alien Hybrid VIP mission. Anyway, I think this mod is great, probably one of the greatest mods in general, not just X-Com. if there was a way to reduce the challenge to like 10-25% of the current level, I would play it again, but like this, it's just suffering for me. Best of luck with your mod, though, and mad props to you, Solarius.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 12, 2021, 02:37:10 pm
I played this mod a lot in the last couple of days. I really liked it, but it is getting more and more stressful with UFOs busting my balls and score, and I don't think my Van or Military Jeep can intercept them. I probably researched something wrong and triggered all sorts of things, my best guess is the Alien Hybrid VIP mission. Anyway, I think this mod is great, probably one of the greatest mods in general, not just X-Com. if there was a way to reduce the challenge to like 10-25% of the current level, I would play it again, but like this, it's just suffering for me. Best of luck with your mod, though, and mad props to you, Solarius.

Well you should probably start over at this point

Before 1999, UFO are super, ultra rare and extremely hard to get and let alone solve, but if you do, you will get a massive leg up.  But you dont have to and do missions elsewhere.
 
use the middle mouse button in research to look up what tech leads to what, this is the most important thing you can do as now you know what you are suppose to catch and do.
Yes, research can trigger spawning but UFO are indenpendent, story arc starting quests can kickstart events or missions with hefty penalties or difficult missions so make sure to take on 1-2 arcs at a time.

There is a thread containing varios tips and tricks you can read, i posted 62 different tricks and tips and i had to trim my posts down because i discovered there is a word limit on this forums so its split to parts. I tried to make it spoiler free as best as i could. I would suggest reading it, alot of things will be clear

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8199.0.html

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 12, 2021, 03:22:54 pm
Hi Mitra, thanks for the kind words. And which difficulty level did you play on?

End game in general is a little lacking as of now, I'll keep adding to it. I want UFO missions to be a bit less vanilla like, and more based on the current situation (a bit like other arcs, which progress according to time and your research).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 12, 2021, 06:09:10 pm
Well, hell broke loose in December of 1998. I had like 20 UFOs in one month. January spawned several -400+ missions at the same time.
Yes, I did trigger UFOs by capturing bunch of aliens and equipment in the special mission Alien Ambush, or something, the one you get from Dossier, or something.
This is second playthrough I had with this mod, kidna fitting it's cult of apocalypse that made me quit gaming for a while again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: the nomad on February 13, 2021, 03:33:36 am
Well, hell broke loose in December of 1998. I had like 20 UFOs in one month. January spawned several -400+ missions at the same time.
Yes, I did trigger UFOs by capturing bunch of aliens and equipment in the special mission Alien Ambush, or something, the one you get from Dossier, or something.
This is second playthrough I had with this mod, kidna fitting it's cult of apocalypse that made me quit gaming for a while again.

The UFOs will not necessarily keep showing at the same frequency, often enough things slow down but it seems you are behind schedule in research. December 1998 is normal time for what is happening. You are kinda racing against time in the mod, while you do not absolutely have to it is best that you have at least promotion II and a 8 crew plane by that time, and ideally promotion III and fighter jets. You will definitely get better with replays and knowing what you should do.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 13, 2021, 09:14:26 am
The UFOs will not necessarily keep showing at the same frequency, often enough things slow down but it seems you are behind schedule in research. December 1998 is normal time for what is happening. You are kinda racing against time in the mod, while you do not absolutely have to it is best that you have at least promotion II and a 8 crew plane by that time, and ideally promotion III and fighter jets. You will definitely get better with replays and knowing what you should do.
I have the Ospey, but it's range sucks. To use it, I would need multiple bases with multiple attack squads. No, thanks, too much effort. I do not want to work even harder, I want to enjoy the game (well, the mod, really).
To get Promotion III, I need to take the HQ of the faction. Without Tritanium, that I just starter researching, it's just gonna turn into endless savescuming session.

Again, Solarius, this is not an insult aimed at you, I really like your work, I'm just tired of the same combat. It's not as fun as it was 15 years ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 13, 2021, 10:16:54 am
Yeah, fully understood. The mod came out as rather demanding on the difficulty side, even though I took some precautions. I guess most of it is due to my personal preferences, and the mod is full of stuff I simply like myself.

Nevertheless, having multiple bases is an absolute necessity. This is not UFO: Extraterrestrials, you're supposed to spread.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 13, 2021, 02:08:51 pm
I have the Ospey, but it's range sucks. To use it, I would need multiple bases with multiple attack squads. No, thanks, too much effort. I do not want to work even harder, I want to enjoy the game (well, the mod, really).
To get Promotion III, I need to take the HQ of the faction. Without Tritanium, that I just starter researching, it's just gonna turn into endless savescuming session.

Again, Solarius, this is not an insult aimed at you, I really like your work, I'm just tired of the same combat. It's not as fun as it was 15 years ago.

Starting over is a good idea and place your base in Greece or the UK (Best overall coverage against Red Dawn, Dagon and Lotus, Exalt might be harder), you must take out a HQ and Red Dawn is still the easiest HQ to solve because it can be extremely cheaply solved. The only challenge are the armoured cars outside but these can be eradicated with miniguns, incendiary weapons and high explosives and then you just need 2 dudes with melee weapons camping the entrance + one dude above it with a shotgun or SMG. Then just click and pass turns as Red Dawn troops walk, one by one through the one title entrance to get slaughtered by choppas or bullet between their eyes. Once you have + 30 - 45 bodies on the same spot, the rest will surrender and you solved a mission with 0 casualties (unless AC's managed to kill someone with their machineguns).

With base in Greece, its possible to reach Red Dawn's HQ with Osprey, though with my simple trick you wont need that many soldiers since only 2-3 will do the heavy lifting while others are there only to fight the armoured cars at the start.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 13, 2021, 07:22:07 pm
My base is is Albania, so kinda there. I think you think I am inexperienced, and that is why I don't want challenge, but I finished TFTD when I was a kid and did not speak english, alnong with every clone I got my hands on, so I know how to play it, I just don't find combat fun anymore. What I do like is a story, cool gadgets, enemy factions, mission types, etc. of THIS mod. In short, i love this mod DESPITE the game.
Anyhow, starting over isn't really on the table, as I spent considerable time on this, and replaying it would just be wasting it. I might cheat and remove the warning once. I have 2 more bases in construction anyway, so maybe it is salvageable.
I threw in a save if someone needs it, for some reason, not sure.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: the nomad on February 14, 2021, 05:31:24 am
My base is is Albania, so kinda there. I think you think I am inexperienced, and that is why I don't want challenge, but I finished TFTD when I was a kid and did not speak english, alnong with every clone I got my hands on, so I know how to play it, I just don't find combat fun anymore. What I do like is a story, cool gadgets, enemy factions, mission types, etc. of THIS mod. In short, i love this mod DESPITE the game.
Anyhow, starting over isn't really on the table, as I spent considerable time on this, and replaying it would just be wasting it. I might cheat and remove the warning once. I have 2 more bases in construction anyway, so maybe it is salvageable.
I threw in a save if someone needs it, for some reason, not sure.

You seem to be in a normal state for that time research and progress-wise actually, but as said you will need at least two bases with more or less good soldiers with Ospreys or Dragonflys to be able to progress so you can reach any mission in the map. Yes, there is grind in the mod (like the original UFO defense actually) but it got enough variety to make me not feel it, I guess it comes down to personal likes in the end.

I get what you mean by liking the mod despite the mod though lol, I have the same feelings with Long War of X-Com Enemy Within. It is great for content, challenge etc. but some aspects do not feel fair for me so I keep getting frustrated midgame, and I just don't like restarting and do all the things yet again but it adds a lot that I can't turn back to vanilla too. I give it a couple months at least to recharge to restart if I want to by that time.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Bonakva on February 14, 2021, 06:06:47 am
I’ll just voice an idea that I’ve been thinking for a long time.
I would like to see different colors of the armor by analogy with the jumpsuit. Relatively speaking, different soldiers should be given different colors. Medic - white, assault - red, etc.
In order not to expand ufopedia with new pages, you can simply make a note that the armor has different colors. The gameplay does not change much from this, but it's nice to see that the soldiers are individual.
Repainting the armor doesn't seem to be difficult. I already did something similar for myself, repainted the armor, after several hundred battles I got tired of the blue color. But I didn’t master it so that the armor had different colors, as it was done with the jumpsuit... I got confused in the code...
Solarius Scorch, what do you think of this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 14, 2021, 01:03:50 pm
I’ll just voice an idea that I’ve been thinking for a long time.
I would like to see different colors of the armor by analogy with the jumpsuit. Relatively speaking, different soldiers should be given different colors. Medic - white, assault - red, etc.
In order not to expand ufopedia with new pages, you can simply make a note that the armor has different colors. The gameplay does not change much from this, but it's nice to see that the soldiers are individual.
Repainting the armor doesn't seem to be difficult. I already did something similar for myself, repainted the armor, after several hundred battles I got tired of the blue color. But I didn’t master it so that the armor had different colors, as it was done with the jumpsuit... I got confused in the code...
Solarius Scorch, what do you think of this?

It would require making the resources and coding them, which is pretty thankless work, but it's totally doable and I don't think it would be inappropriate or anything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on February 14, 2021, 01:23:07 pm
My base is is Albania, so kinda there. I think you think I am inexperienced, and that is why I don't want challenge, but I finished TFTD when I was a kid and did not speak english, alnong with every clone I got my hands on, so I know how to play it, I just don't find combat fun anymore. What I do like is a story, cool gadgets, enemy factions, mission types, etc. of THIS mod. In short, i love this mod DESPITE the game.
Anyhow, starting over isn't really on the table, as I spent considerable time on this, and replaying it would just be wasting it. I might cheat and remove the warning once. I have 2 more bases in construction anyway, so maybe it is salvageable.
I threw in a save if someone needs it, for some reason, not sure.

I took a look at your save, and I'd recommend a restart, though you can recover in X-Com from almost any setback. Definitely take a break if you need to -- I usually take a 1 year break between coming back to X-Com.

You absolutely need multiple bases in this game, and you'll want them early. There is just too much to research and too much to manufacture to get through without them. Note that you don't need to keep a full complement in each base -- just hangers, storage, living quarters, gym, and 10 soldiers to handle the easy stuff. Keep an extra hanger open at smaller bases. You can load up the Osprey at the main base, and then transfer the whole thing over. It works well for the Cult bases and HQ since those stick around for a while. The dragonfly can handle local stuff (e.g. Outposts for easy money).

Extra bases also let you build out more Labs and get more Scientists. While Scientists are expensive, in the long run they make you money. You can research all the cheap weapons and prisoners for points. Points early on means that the funding increase carries forward for your entire game.

The critical research before 1999: Promo III, Radar, Interceptor, Stingray, Kitsune. Try your best to get Personal Armor (or even Cyber Armor, which is the armor you'll be using for a very long time). That requires a bit of luck -- capturing a live alien in a UFO landing, but it looks like in your save, you've already got what you need.

I'm surprised you don't have Kitsune though. I'm not sure what triggers it (you get a notification of Lost Alien Ship Data), but getting the Kitsune means that you basically have worldwide transport range (and in a ship that is both fast and can defend itself). That's why getting the Skyranger / Skymarshall isn't critical before 1999.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Bonakva on February 14, 2021, 02:52:54 pm
Is there any way to look at the base modules? I don't want to wait for an attack on the base just to find out that my layout is shit ...

I also want to see how different modules look like))
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 14, 2021, 03:16:15 pm
Kitsune is a god tier vehicle and getting it should be a priority, it can fly anywhere, it can fly to space, it carries sufficient amount of troops and can even carry 2 tanks. Its also your only high capacity transport that can fight back if intercepted until late game (even if its not as durable). And what really sucks is when your Skyrmarshall gets intercepted by a small UFO and you get to watch 30 seconds of the UFO paper cutting it to death.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on February 15, 2021, 12:09:43 pm
Is there any way to look at the base modules? I don't want to wait for an attack on the base just to find out that my layout is shit ...

I also want to see how different modules look like))

I do not think there is any way to selectively look at battlemap of base modules.
What I remember, for a good defensive layout, you want to have hangars and the access lift (Enemies spawn there) separated from the rest of the base by as short line possible, and the modules next to them be living quarters and stores (where you spawn).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 15, 2021, 04:48:50 pm
Is there any way to look at the base modules? I don't want to wait for an attack on the base just to find out that my layout is shit ...

I also want to see how different modules look like))

Its rather simple, Hangar and access lift are the only places enemy can enter from so for maximum killing field capacity, have one building connect all the essential facilities. If enemies land, they will have to run through one chokepoint to get to the rest of the base. At that point, just arm everyone with rocket launchers and miniguns, grenades and other heavy weapons and simply strafe from cover, pop a shot  and strafe back as enemies are forced to cram in to a one corridor.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cu8PtiJ.png)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on February 15, 2021, 07:09:07 pm
That is a really, really bad layout. One unfortunate explosion in that general stores and every facility besides hangars will be destroyed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: ohartenstein23 on February 15, 2021, 07:38:11 pm
That is a really, really bad layout. One unfortunate explosion in that general stores and every facility besides hangars will be destroyed.

Unless the map has been modified from UFO, general stores and living quarters cannot be destroyed during base defenses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Bonakva on February 15, 2021, 07:39:58 pm
In a vanilla game, general stores are one of those modules that cannot be broken.
I have no idea if it is in the X-files. But I hope so
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 15, 2021, 07:55:20 pm
In a vanilla game, general stores are one of those modules that cannot be broken.
I have no idea if it is in the X-files. But I hope so

I haven't changed that, so should be fine.

Still, I personally wouldn't like to use this layout... One path of assault is not enough for me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 16, 2021, 02:01:18 pm
Still, I personally wouldn't like to use this layout... One path of assault is not enough for me.

Just slap the drone bay next to the warehouse.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 16, 2021, 03:22:25 pm
Just slap the drone bay next to the warehouse.

Poor drones appreciate your support... They keep getting told that they're useless! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 16, 2021, 08:22:12 pm
Poor drones appreciate your support... They keep getting told that they're useless! :)
They are useful for ambush and delaying the enemy. They are not supposed to win all by themselves. Every shot the drone takes in a shot someone important could. And doubly so for grenades and flak/pellet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Bonakva on February 17, 2021, 07:55:18 pm
Show your bases. It is interesting to look at the different layouts
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 18, 2021, 12:21:32 pm
Here you go, choke point on one side, hangars and Acces Lift isolated, and dronebay is there to split the enemies up, and soke up some damage, and living quarters blocking the chokepoint.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Fomka on February 18, 2021, 01:24:34 pm
I do not know anything about the abovementioned Drone Bays yet, my enemy delayer is the simple Corridor. My main base layout is attached, it's December 1998.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 18, 2021, 10:41:10 pm
What i also discovered is that UFO's can be shot to pieces and destroyed instantly if your base defences are numerous + gravity shield and the landing craft is squishy enough. It was quite funny to see Syndicate trying to enter my base twice, with a craft called Scarab (Which i assume is something like an Ironfist, heavy infantry transport), only to be torn to pieces before they could even land.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 20, 2021, 07:52:47 pm
How does trading with UAC and BlackOps work, lorewise? They are owned by Syndicate or Orision or whatever.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 20, 2021, 10:58:34 pm
How does trading with UAC and BlackOps work, lorewise? They are owned by Syndicate or Orision or whatever.

By Syndicate. And well, it's complicated. First of all, they have Council ties, and are privileged for such contracts. Secondly, they don't mind selling hand weapons to political enemies - it doesn't endanger them directly, just like Russia doesn't stop supplying Ukraine with natural gas. Thirdly, hardly anyone in BlackOps is awqare of the Syndicate and who they really are.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on February 21, 2021, 07:44:44 am
Any idea on how to fight lobstermen? I tested Turbolasers and Magma Pulse weapons with Chem ammo. Of the first, only Heavy and Scatter seem to work, of the second, they are too slow at killing them.
Do I just have to bring Heavy Plasmas for everybody?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 21, 2021, 02:27:17 pm
Any idea on how to fight lobstermen? I tested Turbolasers and Magma Pulse weapons with Chem ammo. Of the first, only Heavy and Scatter seem to work, of the second, they are too slow at killing them.
Do I just have to bring Heavy Plasmas for everybody?

Warp weapons (X-Dimension or from Black Sun Stormtroopers) ignore most of living units armour. There is a special version of the Lobster men that sometimes appear in something like "depthpocalypse" that is so armoured that even heavy weapons can barely dent them and they have sonic weapons on top of it

But against the feral one, flamethrowers and incendiary weapons should do. Grab a flying suit and simply hover above them and cook them alive.
Electricity does extra damage but there are very few electricity, lethal based weapons for XCOM. They also take a whooping 1200% Choking damage

(https://i.imgur.com/i38xxqP.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on February 21, 2021, 07:39:08 pm
The issue is Depthopocalypse, yes. I won, but only after the civvies all died and the city was leveled.

I saw their stat block, but do not know about any good choke weapons. I might try those Warp rifles I have in stores the next time the Deathopocalypse comes.

Edit: I suppose with Choke dealing 12x damage, bad choke weapons could be enough. I will also try peppering them and extinguishing them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on February 21, 2021, 09:27:57 pm
I checked the wiki. Knockout Grenades, Smoke Grenades (and shells), and perhaps the Noose could help you fight Lobstermen. I remember the Mindjack device (the melee ranged mindcontrol device) being quite effective as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 21, 2021, 11:04:55 pm
I checked the wiki. Knockout Grenades, Smoke Grenades (and shells), and perhaps the Noose could help you fight Lobstermen. I remember the Mindjack device (the melee ranged mindcontrol device) being quite effective as well.

Noose is hilarious because with 12x the damage, 5 + 0.2 * Bravery + 0.3 * Strenght (1200%....)

One of my Helix Knights has strenght of 80 and bravery of 92.

(5+18.4+ 24) = 47.4 dmg against a 100% choke target
But with 1200% ?

Ah, its just 568.8 (569 if game rounds up numbers ?)

569

I guess nothing like a good overkill, killing enemy 5 times with overstun in one attack. Who would have known that a piece of rope can deal more damage than multiple rockets to the face.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on February 22, 2021, 09:22:46 am
Noose is hilarious because with 12x the damage, 5 + 0.2 * Bravery + 0.3 * Strenght (1200%....)

One of my Helix Knights has strenght of 80 and bravery of 92.

(5+18.4+ 24) = 47.4 dmg against a 100% choke target
But with 1200% ?

Ah, its just 568.8 (569 if game rounds up numbers ?)

569

I guess nothing like a good overkill, killing enemy 5 times with overstun in one attack. Who would have known that a piece of rope can deal more damage than multiple rockets to the face.
92 Bravery? I thought bravery was always divisible by 10.

But anyway, I did not remember the noose being a thing. I did use Psi-Amps last time to some effect. I just do not have that many good Psikers. Are Brainjacks more effective?
Also, with the noose, you are forgetting that it has toHealth=0.2, so final HP damage is only 113.76 rounded up to 114(57 to 171). It ignores armor plating though.

I checked Pepper spray and Extinguisher again though, and with RandomType=4 they do fire-like damage (5 to 10). I do not know whether before or after multiplication.
So noose is still much better. I should buy some then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 22, 2021, 12:14:18 pm
It will kill with overstun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on February 23, 2021, 07:49:31 pm
Hey Scorch, how long until the next update? From what I gathered so far, it seems it will be a massive overhaul with tons of new stuff, but it seems nearly finished to me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Dr.Crowley on February 23, 2021, 07:56:08 pm
Well well well, what do I see? X-Com Files already reached version 1.7. Whoa.
How long was that? I remember posting here back in 2017 - and it is still alive. Amazing. I will give it a try... yet again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: the nomad on February 24, 2021, 07:54:24 pm
The issue is Depthopocalypse, yes. I won, but only after the civvies all died and the city was leveled.

I saw their stat block, but do not know about any good choke weapons. I might try those Warp rifles I have in stores the next time the Deathopocalypse comes.

Edit: I suppose with Choke dealing 12x damage, bad choke weapons could be enough. I will also try peppering them and extinguishing them.

I knockout Lobstermen with a knockout grenade, 2 at most. They drop fairly easily.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Juku121 on February 27, 2021, 04:05:15 pm
*De-lurks again*

I played a little bit of XCF lately, and watched a few streamers/Youtubers do the same. Then I dug around in the mod's guts a bit and these are my thoughts:
I don't really expect much to change about these things, since Solarius has indicated that he has little interest in changing the balance back towards the 'tactical' side of things (see the weapon balance thread). And most players seem to be happy enough with the mod as it is. But I kinda felt the need to rant a little, since I've spent a few years now watching the mod go further and further away from both what I consider the 'X-COM' and 'Files' parts.

I'm not particularly interested in discussion, because from experience, it will most likely result in minor flaming (I'm not innocent of it myself :-[ ) and not much else. If someone feels the need to prove me wrong, try PM's first.

*Re-lurks*
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 27, 2021, 05:35:07 pm
X-com is not a good tactical game, since mechanics are garbage (not being able to shoot through the windows or around the corner, but your enemy can shoot at you, enemies always ambushing LZ, while your 100 agents get out in Kongo line, grenades can kill entire squad with almost no influence from RNG, while the enemies can, and will use more than one per turn, even on turn one, when you can't even leave the craft, etc.), but, what X-Com Files did right is a good story game. I am always happy to learn new tid-bit of lore, defeat one of the hostile organizations, and move past my old tech (Tritanium vest and BlackOps for almost whole game), and I do like that side a lot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on February 27, 2021, 07:37:40 pm
XCOM is indeed a bad tactical game for a tons of reasons, most of them being problems of the old XCOM on its own rather than the mod.

Sniper and spotter mechanics is extremely situational, only on very open maps you can have a situation where one guy can see an enemy and his partner cannot. Usually, Humans will spot anyone at very long range unless they have stealth like Muton Shades or Ninja's. And most of the line of sight things boils down to stealth or if there is something in the way. Cultist mopping missions during day are giant battlefields the moment you step out of the craft as you snipe someone standing on the other side of the map because you have no problem seeing him in the first place.

But another mechanic kinda hurts it, in AI's favour during night missions, since even if one of your agents get spotted (And rest of your team wont) then everyone with a line of sight will take potshots at the poor dude, so like 12 enemies will pepper one guy and even if they are firing with a major aim penalty, does that matter if they fire 50 rounds and 4 of them hits ? Your guy is dead anyway unless he has really good armour.

Grenades will be good no matter what, three things benefit them.
A) They use bottom armour to calculate damage, the lowest one on armour so they will deal damage.
B) They have no accuracy range penalty, whenever you throw them at someone standing 5m or 15m, as long as its in the range it will land.
C) They can have nasty payload, Tritanium Grenade for example not only cuts, but also ignite.

Enemies do panic, but you need to really dominate them so panicking, so only when you are doing too well. But incendiary weapons can panic people anyway.

Early game weapons seem fine, although i would welcome if actually old weapons were accessible even before fighting against cults and maybe some early game grenades too like home made nailbombs or molotovs. And yes its true, there is a massive gear tech rush as you usually get to access Blackops weapons by that point and those weapons are almost always just plain out better with few exceptions here and there.

Alot of the early game armour arent even to stop wounds, just to lessen the impact. Kevlar vest is prime example, its better than nothing and it changes that your soldier can survive 4-5 hits instead of 2-3.
But the armour after that, the armoured vest pushes the "lessen the impact" to "If RNG god smiles upon thee, you shall not take any damage", the shielded armoured vest pushes it to "Small arms will almost always do no damage" and then the tactical suit which goes "Most firearms wont even dent you". And the Tritanium versions pushes it to the max for a long time.

Hell, the vanilla armour XCOM got turned in to impact softening armour against Plasma, it wont stop damage in the first place, but will stop a one shot from a plasma weapon.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on February 27, 2021, 10:08:23 pm
XCOM is indeed a bad tactical game for a tons of reasons, most of them being problems of the old XCOM on its own rather than the mod.

Sniper and spotter mechanics is extremely situational, only on very open maps you can have a situation where one guy can see an enemy and his partner cannot. Usually, Humans will spot anyone at very long range unless they have stealth like Muton Shades or Ninja's. And most of the line of sight things boils down to stealth or if there is something in the way. Cultist mopping missions during day are giant battlefields the moment you step out of the craft as you snipe someone standing on the other side of the map because you have no problem seeing him in the first place.

But another mechanic kinda hurts it, in AI's favour during night missions, since even if one of your agents get spotted (And rest of your team wont) then everyone with a line of sight will take potshots at the poor dude, so like 12 enemies will pepper one guy and even if they are firing with a major aim penalty, does that matter if they fire 50 rounds and 4 of them hits ? Your guy is dead anyway unless he has really good armour.

Grenades will be good no matter what, three things benefit them.
A) They use bottom armour to calculate damage, the lowest one on armour so they will deal damage.
B) They have no accuracy range penalty, whenever you throw them at someone standing 5m or 15m, as long as its in the range it will land.
C) They can have nasty payload, Tritanium Grenade for example not only cuts, but also ignite.

Enemies do panic, but you need to really dominate them so panicking, so only when you are doing too well. But incendiary weapons can panic people anyway.

Early game weapons seem fine, although i would welcome if actually old weapons were accessible even before fighting against cults and maybe some early game grenades too like home made nailbombs or molotovs. And yes its true, there is a massive gear tech rush as you usually get to access Blackops weapons by that point and those weapons are almost always just plain out better with few exceptions here and there.

Alot of the early game armour arent even to stop wounds, just to lessen the impact. Kevlar vest is prime example, its better than nothing and it changes that your soldier can survive 4-5 hits instead of 2-3.
But the armour after that, the armoured vest pushes the "lessen the impact" to "If RNG god smiles upon thee, you shall not take any damage", the shielded armoured vest pushes it to "Small arms will almost always do no damage" and then the tactical suit which goes "Most firearms wont even dent you". And the Tritanium versions pushes it to the max for a long time.

Hell, the vanilla armour XCOM got turned in to impact softening armour against Plasma, it wont stop damage in the first place, but will stop a one shot from a plasma weapon.

I agree with everything except more grenades, but I have never tried Tactical armour. Penalties seemed scary.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 01, 2021, 05:39:37 pm
Hey Scorch, how long until the next update? From what I gathered so far, it seems it will be a massive overhaul with tons of new stuff, but it seems nearly finished to me.

Sorry, am pretty busy and with a long backlog. I have one long mission to finish, working on it with Brain 322's help (new terrain pieces). After it's done, I hope to release immediately.

Well well well, what do I see? X-Com Files already reached version 1.7. Whoa.
How long was that? I remember posting here back in 2017 - and it is still alive. Amazing. I will give it a try... yet again.

Hey, welcome back!

Is it a new avatar? I nust get used to the change :)

*De-lurks again*

Waaah! D:

Don't do that bro, you'll give me a heart attack :q

The mod has grown significantly since I last touched it, and there's a lot of cool and awesome stuff in it. :) Kudos to Solarius for sticking with it so long and all the neat map work!

Thanks! Yep, still at it. And it's still a bit to go...

The mod has been going away from its roots as a tactical game about an alien invasion into something best described as 'Piratez'. I.e., it is steadily going down the path of something along the lines of a cyberpunk adventure. Apparently, people like this well enough. I do not, especially since Piratez already exists and is much better at it. :(

Wasn't really my intention, my inspirations for how arcs work came mostly from UFO: Aftershock, and their objective is to push the player into some specific, varied tactical challenges. If it is similar to Piratez, then it is for completely different reasons and I honestly can't see it. I guess you can't really do it in any different way when expanding an X-Com-like game to such proportions.

The sniper-spotter mechanic, as implemented, is gamist insanity. Everybody and their dog is a spotter, and while I don't know the exact mechanics behind what the 'sniper' field does, I don't really think it's a chance of 'snipering' per turn. I had a whole EXALT base unload on me almost without anybody 'sniper' sitting out when the values were 50 and 75. Pulling them down to 10-20 actually made some of the cultists decide not to 'sniper'.

And there are way too many snipers as well. I think ohartenstein said in the original thread that it's a good idea to have maybe 1-2 snipers on a mission as a general rule.


The only snipers in EXALT are Enforcers and Liquidators, literally. Whereas all X-Com agents are snipers... :P

On that topic, the current implementation of sniper/spotter is more along the lines of 'alien death sniper' rather than 'human marksman taking potshots'. Some of the blame lays with ohartenstein, who's stuck on this being the 'one true way' of AI sniping, so it's this or nothing. But I digress...

So I can see why Solarius might have thought it to be a good idea to make lots of 'snipers', but it is neither fun nor immersive when the second you get smoke grenades they become half-obsolete, without even thermovision being a thing yet; and what feels like half the opposition unloading on any soldier unfortunate enough to be out of hard cover.

Doesn't convince me. Never felt that way, and I don't really get such complaints to any notable degree.

I don't want to paternalize, but maybe just don't waltz around on the open ground?

Having said that, I actually recognize that the mod in general is a bit too anal as it is now. I am currently in the process of addressing it.

I won't touch the traditionalist 'grenades are better for killing enemies halfway across the map than rifles' too much, because this seems to have become a centerpiece of the X-COM experience somewhere along the way. :(

Always has been, since 1994. Can't really do much about it apart from decreasing grenades accuracy, which I've done.

Well, I could also limit throwing ranges, but not sure if I want to. It's a possibility.

The same goes for the damage formula vs early-game armour. Say what you will about wound models, but I'll just point out that IRL, people who get shot in the chest with a handgun while wearing even soft body armour generally do not spend a week (or a month!) in the hospital afterwards. They might be sore for a while, but so will limp-wristed shooters.

Yeah, or they're dead, because they got hit between the eyes. Or die from random shock. Or just plain ignore the bullet like nothing happened... While I am all for approaching rfealism when possible, this is still a game with a set of rules, and I can point to bigger flaws than unrealistic hospitalization.

The high values of LoS contribute nothing to the gameplay either, IMO. At least the pistols got nerfed, so no more 'sniping' enemies across two screens with a dinky handgun (I watched entirely too many episodes of an LP proceeding exactly in that manner :'( ).

Well, it was like the most important thing. Nobody used rifles back then, except for role-play purposes.

Also, 20 tile distance works in a 320x200 resolution, but feels silly on a modern screen. At least to me.

X-COM seems to attract the most panicky individuals ever. Your guys are lucky to have 50 bravery; I just looked at my agents at random, and there were five guys with 10 bravery in a row. :o That is literally the same as a chicken! Yet random civilians have bravery 70-80, and many enemies as high as 90+, which means they are very near immune to routing. You have to go out of your way to panic them instead of just, you know, killing them. Except dogs. Even zombie dogs are chickens. ::)

Regarding X-Com: so what's new? :D

Regarding enemies: well, they are mostly cultists and other maniacs, who actually prefer to get killed to being captured. Game-wise, I think they surrender at the right moment.

The early weapons progression is set up so that the most natural path is from the magnum/MP5/Nitro Express tier straight to BlackOps. You might use some scavenged weaponry in-between, but as soon as Promotion II arrives, the vast majority of historical weaponry goes out of the window, without you ever getting to use them. Going for cult arms dealers looks like a waste of time, because you'll maybe get a marginal increase in lethality vs scavenged stuff, while the outposts/bases are significantly harder.

This is a very divisive point, so I won't really comment on it. Just do what you feel suits your objectives.

While not a personal complaint, there are way too many early missions where you're nose-to-nose with your opponents (who have full TU!). The OG at least gave you cover in three directions straight from the beginning, but I lost count how many times one streamer just took off after firing a few token shots. It might be 'realistic' in some sense, but it is not very fun.

I get it, but there isn't much I can do about it... Cars are cars.

I don't really expect much to change about these things, since Solarius has indicated that he has little interest in changing the balance back towards the 'tactical' side of things (see the weapon balance thread). And most players seem to be happy enough with the mod as it is. But I kinda felt the need to rant a little, since I've spent a few years now watching the mod go further and further away from both what I consider the 'X-COM' and 'Files' parts.

You are welcome to rant, and I always read feedback seriously. If you got the impression that I'm ignoring feedback, then I don't think it's a fair assessment,  especially considering how many times I threw things out of the window due to feedback. The latest overhaul of cult weapons access tree being a case in point.

*Re-lurks*

Later!

@Mrvex, @Mitra Lightbringer: I think the X-Com mechanics is actually pretty damn ingenious, but it "suffers" from two factors:
1) Terrain and units have simplified shapes. If you're treating in-game graphics too literally, you'll get burned. Remember that it's all built from voxels, which are completely separate from the graphics and can only roughly follow them. Also, all units are cylinders.
2) The konga of death would be mitigated by much larger maps, like the Root of All Evil mission. But it would make the game pretty spread out, and I'd rather keep it packed. (Especially on urban maps...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on March 01, 2021, 09:03:07 pm
much larger maps
No, please, anything but that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on March 01, 2021, 11:20:44 pm
No, please, anything but that.
Larger maps should be done in moderation, they shouldnt be present in the daily bread and butter missions but be present where it makes sense and beyond the early game. Open maps are quite hard before you start getting really good armour and tons of long range weapons. Only when you start getting things like mortars, laser cutter (for wall breaching) and other tools the game really opens up on how you can aproach a large battle with large body count.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on March 01, 2021, 11:32:44 pm
The main issue that I have with the scout-sniper mechanic is that if any of your agents hit an enemy, then all enemies "see" that agent. So your agent can be way off in the corner of the map, at night, covered in smoke, but if they hit an enemy, then the AI snipers can all light him up. This aspect both feels extremely unfair and is really confusing to the player.

I was watching Yeti's old X-Com Files streams, and he keeps thinking that enemies have ridiculous night vision and thermal vision because of getting fired upon in those kinds of situations.

I think larger maps can work in certain situations -- the cult of apocalypse missions can have tons of enemies. Bigger maps could mean that you don't immediately get jumped by tons of enemies. I think in general, a bit more separation between your landing site and the main force of enemies could be nice. Still have some enemies next to the landing, but opening the door and immediately seeing 10+ enemies is off-putting.

Larger maps in urban settings would be super annoying though, unless the primary objective isn't to kill all enemies.

Quote
Alot of the early game armour arent even to stop wounds, just to lessen the impact. Kevlar vest is prime example, its better than nothing and it changes that your soldier can survive 4-5 hits instead of 2-3.
But the armour after that, the armoured vest pushes the "lessen the impact" to "If RNG god smiles upon thee, you shall not take any damage", the shielded armoured vest pushes it to "Small arms will almost always do no damage" and then the tactical suit which goes "Most firearms wont even dent you". And the Tritanium versions pushes it to the max for a long time.

The Kevlar Vest definitely lets you soak pistol shots quite often, though RNG is a huge part of it.

Armored Vests and Tritanium Vests work really well, but you can still be one-shot because even if you are shot directly from the front, the game can still roll a side hit quite often (feels like a bit too often IMO), and those armors comparatively weak side armor. The biggest reason to use the Suits is that their side armors are quite strong too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on March 01, 2021, 11:43:17 pm
I think larger maps can work in certain situations -- the cult of apocalypse missions can have tons of enemies. Bigger maps could mean that you don't immediately get jumped by tons of enemies. I think in general, a bit more separation between your landing site and the main force of enemies could be nice. Still have some enemies next to the landing, but opening the door and immediately seeing 10+ enemies is off-putting.

Just make the missions have less enemies, problem solved. No need for bigger maps and larger transports for even more soldiers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on March 01, 2021, 11:46:23 pm
Just make the missions have less enemies, problem solved. No need for bigger maps and larger transports for even more soldiers.

I do like the occasional mission with tons of enemies though (a high density of enemies to be more specific). Nothing like throwing down a high-explosive or rocket and getting 10+ kills. The main issue is having them right at the landing site so you have no real opportunities to make meaningful decisions before they all jump down on your throat.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on March 02, 2021, 12:02:48 am
The main issue that I have with the scout-sniper mechanic is that if any of your agents hit an enemy, then all enemies "see" that agent. So your agent can be way off in the corner of the map, at night, covered in smoke, but if they hit an enemy, then the AI snipers can all light him up. This aspect both feels extremely unfair and is really confusing to the player.

I was watching Yeti's old X-Com Files streams, and he keeps thinking that enemies have ridiculous night vision and thermal vision because of getting fired upon in those kinds of situations.

Most of the tier 2-3+ Cultist enemies (particular Exalt and RD) have greatly enhanced night vision by their design (lore reason: Bio-Enhancement/Alien tech/Equipment). That, and the aliens majority all have varying degrees of good-excellent night vision compared to yours.

Short of taking LOS cover after your shot, being counter-sniped is unavoidable since the enemy actively scout-sniper spots for each other. Dogs + my own snipers + run command helped a lot to deal with them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on March 02, 2021, 01:06:23 am
Most higher tier cultists have a few extra squares of night vision but it's really something like 9 -> 11 or 9 -> 13 at most. That information is available in the Info tab, so it's not too big of an issue, especially since it's still way lower than Dogs' vision ranges.

It's really the automatic spotting when they're hit that's frustrating and confusing. You can test this yourself by shooting with your snipers from the back. Even if your snipers are far, far out of visual range, they'll still be fired upon if there is a clear line of fire.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: the nomad on March 02, 2021, 07:39:02 pm
To be honest, I am perfectly content with the numbers of enemies in the missions, even in small maps like those Cult of Apocalypse gatherings. At first I also got frustrated and ranted about how unfair and untactical it is, but really it is still tactical, you just need different tactics. Now you have to prioritize dangerous enemies, like those rocket launcher or chaingun guys, bring more medkits because you surely will get hit, use more flashbangs, etc.

If the maps were bigger then it would require again different tactics. I am content with whatever comes, as long as it is possible.

I also have no quarrel with the current sniper-spotter mechanics, I didn't have much problem with it unless I used smoke grenades in missions which include a lot of snipers and thermal vision guys (like Red Dawn bases), but that's just me of course.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mitra Lightbringer on March 02, 2021, 11:14:42 pm
To be honest, I am perfectly content with the numbers of enemies in the missions, even in small maps like those Cult of Apocalypse gatherings. At first I also got frustrated and ranted about how unfair and untactical it is, but really it is still tactical, you just need different tactics. Now you have to prioritize dangerous enemies, like those rocket launcher or chaingun guys, bring more medkits because you surely will get hit, use more flashbangs, etc.

If the maps were bigger then it would require again different tactics. I am content with whatever comes, as long as it is possible.
Gatherings are not the issue. The town cleansing or whatever is. There are too many units on too large map, rewards for victory are garbage, since there are no useful prisoners or equipment, and score is, well, let's just say that 2 civvies spawn it the same room as the shotgun guy, and cult usually kills at least 10 people in the first turn. But the worst part is how long Cult+Cleaners turns last. I have Ryzen 3600 and I still need to wait at least about 2-5 minutes. Naturally, cows are only useful ally in the game. I honestly think it's worth it to shoot the cleaners yourself, so you feel like you did a good deed, and the turns go faster. You ain't gonna get any score out of the mission anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Fomka on March 03, 2021, 01:41:23 pm
...But the worst part is how long Cult+Cleaners turns last. I have Ryzen 3600 and I still need to wait at least about 2-5 minutes.
Maybe setting Fire Speed and AI Movement Speed to max will help?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: the nomad on March 03, 2021, 05:00:52 pm
Gatherings are not the issue. The town cleansing or whatever is. There are too many units on too large map, rewards for victory are garbage, since there are no useful prisoners or equipment, and score is, well, let's just say that 2 civvies spawn it the same room as the shotgun guy, and cult usually kills at least 10 people in the first turn. But the worst part is how long Cult+Cleaners turns last. I have Ryzen 3600 and I still need to wait at least about 2-5 minutes. Naturally, cows are only useful ally in the game. I honestly think it's worth it to shoot the cleaners yourself, so you feel like you did a good deed, and the turns go faster. You ain't gonna get any score out of the mission anyway.

Oh I can't argue about the length of the turns, it is a bit annoying yes. Best you can do is what Fomka suggested.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Thunderwing280 on March 03, 2021, 08:14:34 pm
For the Lunar core mission which colour ethereal do you have to capture?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Empiro on March 04, 2021, 09:25:26 am
I also have no quarrel with the current sniper-spotter mechanics, I didn't have much problem with it unless I used smoke grenades in missions which include a lot of snipers and thermal vision guys (like Red Dawn bases), but that's just me of course.

Red Dawn do not actually have thermal vision on any of their soldiers. The night vision is also a piddling 11 for their top tier troops. What they do have is a lot of snipers, and because they automatically spot any of your soldiers that hit any of theirs, it makes them seem like they have really good night vision and thermal vision, even when they don't.

That source of confusion is why I dislike the sniper mechanic in its current state so much.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: ErikPhantom on March 08, 2021, 05:53:05 am
Hello, I've been having difficulties installing and running the mod.

I've done as the readme/video guide says, and the files from the XcomFiles archive I downloaded from the first post in this thread are in my [MainXcomFilesFolder]/user/mods, but while there is an "X-com Files" dropdown sub-menu in the in-game mod menu (from the start screen), within it are only the Cyrillic Names and Dark Geoscape for me to turn on, no X-com Files itself.

I'm fairly certain it's not activated automatically, as the video showed that when active it should say "X-com Files Ver.XXX" instead of "OpenXcom Ver.XXX" on the main menu.

I pretty sure I did everything as it said, since the parts I don't really care about are there, but the actual MOD isn't?

The instructions might be outdated or something, so what am I missing/doing wrong?

Edit: Oh, also, the MODS menu the video shows in the options menu appears to instead be FOLDERS, but the Mods option from the main menu itself seems to work, which is what I am talking about above. So that's probably the issue, but the video is quite old so that might have just been changed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mathel on March 08, 2021, 10:05:57 am
In the "Base game" dropdown menu in mods, there should be the options:
UFO: Enemy unknown
X-COM: Terror From the Deep
X-Com Files
(One of the first two might be missing, if you do not have the files for it installed, but you have to have at least 1 of them for OXCE to run.)

As long as the X-Com Files is the one selected when you click OK, the mod will be on. Cyrillic Names and Dark Geoscape are submods.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: ErikPhantom on March 08, 2021, 08:35:41 pm
In the "Base game" dropdown menu in mods, there should be the options:


As long as the X-Com Files is the one selected when you click OK, the mod will be on. Cyrillic Names and Dark Geoscape are submods.
Ahhhh, I thought they were just dropdowns to deal with each individually, not to also set the chosen one to be active.

Thank you very much.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 15, 2021, 08:04:10 pm
Guys, I know the last release was in December, and over 3 months have passed already. But I assure you that I am working hard on the mod and not stopping. It's just that the next release is very time consuming, so I hope you understand.

For the brave there is always the GitHub option. It is updated daily. It seems to work fine, only some translations may be missing, and of course there is WIP stuff in it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: HT on March 15, 2021, 09:05:45 pm
I guess I'll give the github version a try then. It seems you're going for broke, completing at least one arc or getting very close to it. Also, new stuff as usual,

such as being able to "recruit" these bats you find from time to time
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: the nomad on March 16, 2021, 06:48:29 pm
Guys, I know the last release was in December, and over 3 months have passed already. But I assure you that I am working hard on the mod and not stopping. It's just that the next release is very time consuming, so I hope you understand.

For the brave there is always the GitHub option. It is updated daily. It seems to work fine, only some translations may be missing, and of course there is WIP stuff in it.

Hey Scorch, will the new update affect the pre-invasion gameplay much? I am going to restart and if it does affect it I will wait.

We are happy to wait by the way, that only means another awesome update is coming :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.7: Market Corrections
Post by: Mrvex on March 16, 2021, 08:18:19 pm
From other mods i know, silence is the mark of progress.

Though, regarding of if it changes early game i have doubts, UAC isnt early game stuff, neither is Proteanism.
Zephyr serum though might be a game changing consumable, but nothing warranting a full restart.
Carapace plating (webwear against concussive damage) does change the early game somewhat, but nothing worthy of a full restart
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 29, 2021, 08:38:36 pm
Well I modified some general stuff like training efficiency, so early game is also affected. But I don't think it makes sense to restart the campaign.



EDIT:
Finally, version 1.8 has been released!

- Updated to the newest OXCE.
- New agent type: X-Com Shadowbat.
- New advanced agent type: Protean.
- 9 new events.
- New units: Black Sun Victor, Pinky Demon, Hell Baron, Dr. Alpha (all graphics mostly by Dioxine).
- New weapons: Quillbow (concept by Grit, sprites by Brain_322), BFG (graphics by Bloax), Stun Spear.
- New missions: UAC Moon Base Landing (in cooperation with Brain_322), The Island of Dr. Alpha.
- New Dossier: Dr. Alpha.
- New terrains: UAC Moon Lab, Dark Storm Mountain (collab with Brain_322).
- New maps for the Mummy Settlement.
- New items: Carapace Plate, Zephyr Serum (concept by Grit, script by Meridian).
- New Juggernaut sprites (by Wolverin).
- Improved Pancor Jackhammer sprite (by Brain_322).
- Improved handobs for the M-16, Plasma Rifle, Laser Rifle and Turbolaser Sniper Rifle (by Brain_322).
- New Animal Pen sprite (by Brain_322).
- New article: Alien Colonies.
- Rebuilt alien embassies into alien colonies (easier to get in, but can't reclaim the country).
- Removed some Hybrid/ADVENT missions as they no longer fit the concept.
- Aliens can now react in multiple ways to shooting down UFOs.
- Medium zombie infestations are slightly more common.
- Tweaked crashed UFO mission chances.
- Decreased number of enemies on low difficulties.
- Changed Coven's reward to Protean tech.
- Smaller maps for Hell Cruise with Dr. Hadriex and Osiron Cruise Liner.
- Smaller maps on smallest monster hunts.
- Water pools slow you down.
- Incendiary weapons damage TUs (reaction shots are less likely).
- Rifles rebalance.
- Decreased the Reactions balance for the BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifle.
- Lessened the penalty on Smart Shotgun for 1-handed shooting.
- Napalm Grenade can now be examined if you find one, but its manufacturing restrictions remain unchanged.
- Improved terrain damage on both cutters.
- G11 is now a revived weapon.
- Modified Synthmuscles tech tree and you can now get them from Osiron crates.
- Removed inventory from dogs and rats.
- Added abort penalties on some missions.
- Changed some mission despawn penalties.
- The Weapon Self Destruction option is no longer locked (feel free to suffer if you like).
- Animal training no longer yields monster teeth.
- Interrogating units which you can extract armor from now also gives you their armor.
- Training caps increased.
- Added Black Sun Stormtrooper descriptions.
- Added Spitter armor variants.
- Linked rank-related armor variants to Ufopaedia articles.
- Better Congo and Senegal flags (by Kato).
- Fixed Floater's grav device color (thanks The Martian).
- Swapped BlackOps LMG and BlackOps Assault LMG sprites.
- Syndicate Monster Lab graphic improvements (by Brain_322).
- Fixed some inconsistencies between weapon types and commendations.
- Fixed training speed.
- Fixed a bug where you could build multiple Advanced HQs.
- Fixed an inconsistency in corpse recovery between X-Com Cyberdisc and Alien Laser Turret.
- Fixed Flying Suit production being too easy.
- Added missing extra effects on alien turrets and Sectopods.
- Fixed MiB Strikeship map.
- Fixed some Ufopedia entries.
- Minor fixes (many thanks to Emil J. Schroeder for tracking down literally dozens of small issues!).

Remember to update your OXCE!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on March 29, 2021, 09:09:52 pm
Yay, it's finally here!
Speaking of: Perhaps this has been fixed already, but I noticed some of the EXALT units, particularly Goons, have visual bugs on their paper-dolls seen in the Battlescape. Sadly I cannot provide pics right now, but I believe they had a weird, glitched green thing where their secondary weapon should be (usually it happened when they had a pistol and something else in the other hand).
Cool, early flying scouts!
BFG was already a thing in Piratez, I suppose the graphic was copy-pasted, unless it's slightly different.
Island of Dr. Alpha... Aka, not-Moreau?
I'm not sure what do you mean with "aliens reacting in different ways". Can they destroy your bases by missile strikes ala Piratez or not yet?
I also already built multiple HQs in the same base. Will this prevent me from updating them to Advanced HQs once I update?
Also, as for the revived weapons: I haven't tried much yet, but IMO there's the issue that by the time you unlock them, you're probably close enough to unlock Black Ops guns, which makes most of them redundant.
The only possible exception might be the Pancor Shotgun. The grenade-launching rifle seems cool on paper, but it's too heavy and lacks an aimed mode IIRC.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 29, 2021, 09:39:43 pm
Speaking of: Perhaps this has been fixed already, but I noticed some of the EXALT units, particularly Goons, have visual bugs on their paper-dolls seen in the Battlescape. Sadly I cannot provide pics right now, but I believe they had a weird, glitched green thing where their secondary weapon should be (usually it happened when they had a pistol and something else in the other hand).

No idea what it's about, sorry. I'd need a proper report, with a save or a pic.

Cool, early flying scouts!

Eh? What scouts? :)

BFG was already a thing in Piratez, I suppose the graphic was copy-pasted, unless it's slightly different.

It's exactly the same. :P But the weapon works differently.

Island of Dr. Alpha... Aka, not-Moreau?

Precisely.

I'm not sure what do you mean with "aliens reacting in different ways". Can they destroy your bases by missile strikes ala Piratez or not yet?

Nothing as drastic, there's simply a range of standard alien missions they pick at random instead of having just one response. The most common are Alien Flyby and Alien Retaliation, but there are more.

I also already built multiple HQs in the same base. Will this prevent me from updating them to Advanced HQs once I update?

You were never allowed to do so. If you did it, it was through some loophole. So in short, I have no idea and don't really care how it works.

Also, as for the revived weapons: I haven't tried much yet, but IMO there's the issue that by the time you unlock them, you're probably close enough to unlock Black Ops guns, which makes most of them redundant.

Depends; sometimes yes, but it's not guaranteed.

Also, BlackOps weapons are mostly something else, there isn't a BlackOps OXCW or a BlackOps Jackhammer. I think.

The only possible exception might be the Pancor Shotgun. The grenade-launching rifle seems cool on paper, but it's too heavy and lacks an aimed mode IIRC.

I keep hearing it's OP... ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on March 29, 2021, 10:27:38 pm
Eh? What scouts? :)

The bats, I mean.


You were never allowed to do so. If you did it, it was through some loophole. So in short, I have no idea and don't really care how it works.

Depends; sometimes yes, but it's not guaranteed.

To be fair, I don't exactly remember how I managed to build 2 HQs in a base, only that I just did. As for the Black Ops weapons, once you get Promotion 2, you unlock Black Ops as a research topic, which already opens a bunch of usable BO weapons IIRC, so you can get them early. The major obstacle to getting them is their price.
 

I keep hearing it's OP... ;)

You mean the Jackhammer, or the OXCW rifle? I have to try either, I only judged from stats.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 29, 2021, 10:35:15 pm
The bats, I mean.

Oh... Of course. :P

To be fair, I don't exactly remember how I managed to build 2 HQs in a base, only that I just did.

Yeah, TBH it was a bitch to do right.

As for the Black Ops weapons, once you get Promotion 2, you unlock Black Ops as a research topic, which already opens a bunch of usable BO weapons IIRC, so you can get them early. The major obstacle to getting them is their price.

I started a new campaign, so we'll see :)
 
You mean the Jackhammer, or the OXCW rifle? I have to try either, I only judged from stats.

I meant the OXCW. I haven't had any particular feedback on the Pancor Jackhammer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on March 29, 2021, 11:33:05 pm
Do you play your own mod regularly? Don't you get tired of it? After all, you already know what's new in every update.  :)
 
Either way, after checking the XCF wiki, I confirmed you don't even need Promotion 2 to unlock Black Ops weaponry, "only" to have "All staff contacted" and "Non-standard weapons", topics which you should have unlocked by then. Afterwards, you research "Contact: BO", and you're given a list of "basic" BO weaponry to acquire, such as the pistol and the shotgun. Despite their price, they're still better than most of the cult stuff you get. The OXCW rifle also requires you to unlock the topics that deal with buying weaponry from the EXALT cult, as it needs the same ammo used by the M16 and company, but the OXCW itself doesn't let you buy said ammo by default, only the explosive rounds. On the other hand, chances are you'll want to use that rifle for the explosive rounds anyway.
I'll have to check later, once I download the new update and such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Kidd on March 30, 2021, 04:53:40 am
This has been a fantastic Mod to play...so much has gone into it.  Thanks for your work.
I'm getting an error message after installing 1.8 stating:

" (DognameCyr/ZZZ_Doge.nam) requested file not found "

Funny though, when I started the game, just on a whim, I chose YES on using Cyrillic Names and the Mod works fine.  But I have a list of Agent names that I can't actually read, LOL.  When I try to run the Mod without using "Cyrillic Names", I get the above error message.  I looked through the folders and couldn't find the file mentioned above, so is it possible that it was simply left out of this version? 

Thanks again for such a great Mod.  I remember first playing the original X-Com Ufo Defense back in the mid 1990s. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on March 30, 2021, 11:36:05 am
Did you update the Progress-o-meter?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 30, 2021, 02:46:03 pm
Do you play your own mod regularly? Don't you get tired of it? After all, you already know what's new in every update.  :)

Honestly? I play far from enough... It's true that you can have too much of a good thing :)
 
Either way, after checking the XCF wiki, I confirmed you don't even need Promotion 2 to unlock Black Ops weaponry, "only" to have "All staff contacted" and "Non-standard weapons", topics which you should have unlocked by then. Afterwards, you research "Contact: BO", and you're given a list of "basic" BO weaponry to acquire, such as the pistol and the shotgun. Despite their price, they're still better than most of the cult stuff you get. The OXCW rifle also requires you to unlock the topics that deal with buying weaponry from the EXALT cult, as it needs the same ammo used by the M16 and company, but the OXCW itself doesn't let you buy said ammo by default, only the explosive rounds. On the other hand, chances are you'll want to use that rifle for the explosive rounds anyway.
I'll have to check later, once I download the new update and such.

Okay, but what of it? Are you saying that the restricted weapons aren't worth using?

This has been a fantastic Mod to play...so much has gone into it.  Thanks for your work.

Thank you!

I'm getting an error message after installing 1.8 stating:

" (DognameCyr/ZZZ_Doge.nam) requested file not found "

Funny though, when I started the game, just on a whim, I chose YES on using Cyrillic Names and the Mod works fine.  But I have a list of Agent names that I can't actually read, LOL.  When I try to run the Mod without using "Cyrillic Names", I get the above error message.  I looked through the folders and couldn't find the file mentioned above, so is it possible that it was simply left out of this version?

That's very strange, since I haven't touched the DogNameCyr (or the entire Cyrillics submod) in a long time. Sorry, I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work. I'll ask other players on Discord, but perhaps it's just some installation issue.

Thanks again for such a great Mod.  I remember first playing the original X-Com Ufo Defense back in the mid 1990s.

Same. High five! :)

Did you update the Progress-o-meter?

I knew I missed something. :P
Do we even still need this? Most arcs are now complete...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on March 30, 2021, 04:45:52 pm
Okay, but what of it? Are you saying that the restricted weapons aren't worth using?

Revived*, you probably meant.

No, my point was that IMO the BO weapons should be moved to Promotion 2 or even 3, as they're too easy to unlock and makes unlocking the Cult Dealers research topic and the Revived Weapons somewhat pointless, as you're already have access than the stuff the cults have, if very pricey.
They're supposed to be super-elite gear, so being locked behind Promotion 2 minimum would make sense to me. I'm already Prom. 2 in my campaign, so no issues in my case.  :)

Do we even still need this? Most arcs are now complete...
Okay, but what of it? Are you saying that the restricted weapons aren't worth using?


Really? Yeah, it seems so. The Doom arc is done, yay! Will there be a Doomguy cameo or an easter egg at some point, if there isn't one already?

Now, the MIB arc hopefully is the next one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 30, 2021, 05:13:28 pm
Revived*, you probably meant.

Right. :P

No, my point was that IMO the BO weapons should be moved to Promotion 2 or even 3, as they're too easy to unlock (...)

Seriously? After 5 or 6 years of complaints that they come too late and are therefore useless?
I've done some exxxxtreme backflips to make them accessible earlier...

Really? Yeah, it seems so. The Doom arc is done, yay! Will there be a Doomguy cameo or an easter egg at some point, if there isn't one already?

I doubt it, he hasn't been born yet... :)

Maybe some day, but I don't want to do this just just for the meme/cameo. Doom demons are pretty bad already.

Now, the MIB arc hopefully is the next one.

Yes, along with actual aliens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Kidd on March 30, 2021, 05:39:09 pm
Did you update the Progress-o-meter?

Hmmm...I'm sorry, but I don't know what that means.  I searched around a bit, but couldn't figure it out.  I'm a bit of an amateur at this.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: thisnameismeta on March 30, 2021, 07:06:22 pm
Do the changes to alien embassies now mean it's impossible to reclaim lost countries? I'd be a bit sad if that was no longer possible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Fomka on March 30, 2021, 07:26:16 pm
...
Also, as for the revived weapons: I haven't tried much yet, but IMO there's the issue that by the time you unlock them, you're probably close enough to unlock Black Ops guns, which makes most of them redundant.
...
What are those revived weapons?

Quote
G11 is now a revived weapon.

Congratulations on new version!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on March 30, 2021, 09:07:10 pm

Seriously? After 5 or 6 years of complaints that they come too late and are therefore useless?
I've done some exxxxtreme backflips to make them accessible earlier...

Uh, okay then, I guess everyone has a different opinion. Since I've been playing this mod for... How long has it been, 5 years already? The point is that I know which gear is best and thus rush for certain items ASAP.


I doubt it, he hasn't been born yet... :)

What about the classic Doom armor model then? Since all of the UAC stuff is around already, and it's a thing in Piratez, perhaps you can port it as special armor of sorts.

Yes, along with actual aliens.
You mean, besides all of the aliens already a thing since forever?  :)

What are those revived weapons?

Special weapons you unlock after researching the "Revived Weapons" Topic, of variable usefulness, as you need to be Promotion 2 minimum to get the first one to unlock. After you do so, you can buy them as usual. I dunno if cultists use them.
 

That reminds me: Does researching the "'x weapon' Acquisition" research topics give you any points for scoring purposes? They only take one day usually, since it's mostly taking care of the red tape, but the game still counts them as research topics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mrvex on March 31, 2021, 11:58:10 am
You mean, besides all of the aliens already a thing since forever?



 alien arc is almost vanilla when i brought up the complain about the RNG, capture rullet being quite boring and infuriating thing that ruins the gradual progression of gear that was somewhat consistent throughout the game. And this is probably my only largest gripe with the mod that mid to late game isnt as fun as the early game.

Well, Solarius said it himself
Maybe when there is an arc, and not just one big placeholder working like vanilla. :P

I hope it'll happen ;)

The idea is to have less generic missions and more storyline. But I don't have a clear vision yet.

Alot of the tech are also chain-linked to each other or through advanced laboratory, so even if you unlocked 4 of them, you wont be able to make them till you unlock another techs to be able to make the laboratory. This leads to mass-gear unlock which instantly starts to render each other obsolete because the moment you finish the research, its direct upgrade shows up. I have yet to get powerarmour AND not get Juggernaut after the research is done, the only reason to ever make powerarmour would be economic, but usually by the time you can make juggernaut armour, you wont have a shortage of aqua plastics.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mathel on March 31, 2021, 12:37:34 pm


 alien arc is almost vanilla when i brought up the complain about the RNG, capture rullet being quite boring and infuriating thing that ruins the gradual progression of gear that was somewhat consistent throughout the game. And this is probably my only largest gripe with the mod that mid to late game isnt as fun as the early game.

Well, Solarius said it himself
Alot of the tech are also chain-linked to each other or through advanced laboratory, so even if you unlocked 4 of them, you wont be able to make them till you unlock another techs to be able to make the laboratory. This leads to mass-gear unlock which instantly starts to render each other obsolete because the moment you finish the research, its direct upgrade shows up. I have yet to get powerarmour AND not get Juggernaut after the research is done, the only reason to ever make powerarmour would be economic, but usually by the time you can make juggernaut armour, you wont have a shortage of aqua plastics.

You might have a shortage of electronics thought. Juggernauts now cost Alien Electronics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on March 31, 2021, 01:14:02 pm
Do we even still need this? Most arcs are now complete...

I for one appreciate the Progress-o-meter very much. I'm quite new to this mode and it gives a good idea of the progress of this mod. I wish X-piratez had a similar roadmap somewhere.

Hmmm...I'm sorry, but I don't know what that means.  I searched around a bit, but couldn't figure it out.  I'm a bit of an amateur at this.

It's in the original post of this thread.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 31, 2021, 01:42:13 pm
Do the changes to alien embassies now mean it's impossible to reclaim lost countries? I'd be a bit sad if that was no longer possible.

Yes, it was never a good idea. X-Com doesn't have the political power to decide who countries are allied with, base or no base.

Congratulations on new version!

Thank you!

Uh, okay then, I guess everyone has a different opinion. Since I've been playing this mod for... How long has it been, 5 years already? The point is that I know which gear is best and thus rush for certain items ASAP.

But I've heard the opposite from veterans, for example Starving Poet :)

Just like you said, everyone has a different opinion.

What about the classic Doom armor model then? Since all of the UAC stuff is around already, and it's a thing in Piratez, perhaps you can port it as special armor of sorts.

Well we could, sure, but I don't see the idea behind it.

You mean, besides all of the aliens already a thing since forever?  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/JXJdd7r.jpg)

But seriously, Mrvex has already summarized it nicely: the aliens right now are just extended vanilla. Consider it a big placeholder. I want to make their activity more structured and less random. (People are complaining that later game is just too vanilla, and I feel more can be done here.)

At the very least I need to introduce another key location which will replace the ass-pulled Ethereal Commander currently required for accessing the Moon missions. (Right now I'm planning
a big space station
...)

Special weapons you unlock after researching the "Revived Weapons" Topic, of variable usefulness, as you need to be Promotion 2 minimum to get the first one to unlock. After you do so, you can buy them as usual. I dunno if cultists use them.

Cultists don't use them, or at least I think they don't.

That reminds me: Does researching the "'x weapon' Acquisition" research topics give you any points for scoring purposes? They only take one day usually, since it's mostly taking care of the red tape, but the game still counts them as research topics.

Yes, but very little (often just 1 point).

alien arc is almost vanilla when i brought up the complain about the RNG, capture rullet being quite boring and infuriating thing that ruins the gradual progression of gear that was somewhat consistent throughout the game. And this is probably my only largest gripe with the mod that mid to late game isnt as fun as the early game.

(...)

Alot of the tech are also chain-linked to each other or through advanced laboratory, so even if you unlocked 4 of them, you wont be able to make them till you unlock another techs to be able to make the laboratory. This leads to mass-gear unlock which instantly starts to render each other obsolete because the moment you finish the research, its direct upgrade shows up. I have yet to get powerarmour AND not get Juggernaut after the research is done, the only reason to ever make powerarmour would be economic, but usually by the time you can make juggernaut armour, you wont have a shortage of aqua plastics.

TBH this is not directly related to the alien arc, but point taken.

I don't know how to improve this situation yet. It's something to work out.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mrvex on March 31, 2021, 04:27:05 pm


TBH this is not directly related to the alien arc, but point taken.

I don't know how to improve this situation yet. It's something to work out.

A placeholder of a placeholder would be to have some sort of Alien base raids that spawn overtime and work sort as MiB bases (so until cleared, they will stay) that are hard af but gives you a data slate that gives you the tech. So you can attempt these at any time but trying to storm it with tactical suits will be a nightmarish fight. So you can still do it, kill like 30-40 sectoids and few cyberdisks but most of your A team is dead. So you can buy succes...with blood.
And game would tell you this is like "Anti-Matter testing facility" so you know what will you get when you get there.

Tying this to climaxes of story arcs would be good if you can justify it somewhat (which might be the hard part, since some factions have no connection to alien tech) like raiding Syndicate HQ would get you elerium batteries tech they stole from MAGMA reactor or something like that. MAGMA could then offer you merchandise if you dont tell the council, or you can rattle them out for council points that they got their hands on alien tech even before XCOM. But thats beside the main point.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Kidd on March 31, 2021, 07:34:53 pm
I for one appreciate the Progress-o-meter very much. I'm quite new to this mode and it gives a good idea of the progress of this mod. I wish X-piratez had a similar roadmap somewhere.

It's in the original post of this thread.

Ah, of course.  Thanks, hipsu....I thought it was something in the options menu within the game itself.  Sheesh. ::)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 02, 2021, 11:51:52 am
A placeholder of a placeholder would be to have some sort of Alien base raids that spawn overtime and work sort as MiB bases (so until cleared, they will stay) that are hard af but gives you a data slate that gives you the tech. So you can attempt these at any time but trying to storm it with tactical suits will be a nightmarish fight. So you can still do it, kill like 30-40 sectoids and few cyberdisks but most of your A team is dead. So you can buy succes...with blood.
And game would tell you this is like "Anti-Matter testing facility" so you know what will you get when you get there.

It's not easy to find the right threat level... But it's no excuse for not trying!

Tying this to climaxes of story arcs would be good if you can justify it somewhat (which might be the hard part, since some factions have no connection to alien tech) like raiding Syndicate HQ would get you elerium batteries tech they stole from MAGMA reactor or something like that. MAGMA could then offer you merchandise if you dont tell the council, or you can rattle them out for council points that they got their hands on alien tech even before XCOM. But thats beside the main point.

Yeah, that's more or less what I want to do. I just need to conceptualize it.

Ah, of course.  Thanks, hipsu....I thought it was something in the options menu within the game itself.  Sheesh. ::)

Well it sorta does, in the form of research progress display :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 03, 2021, 02:56:02 pm
Yes, it was never a good idea. X-Com doesn't have the political power to decide who countries are allied with, base or no base.

Sorry to chime in on this, but that seems like cop-out, seeing how X-Com grows from a niche-organisation numbering a handful of people to single-handedly saving humanity multiple times in a span of, what five to seven years? Not only do you go toe to toe with ancient and modern cults and their leaders, among them an alien would-be goddess (and an invisible ninja master who wields a magical katana), the nuclear armed russian mafia, worshippers of the literal Deep Ones and a shady organization that peddles an alien drug.

No, later on X-Com actually defeats said the Deep Ones, exterminates a plague of genetically modified monsters, tracks down and destroys an interdimensional battleship and it's creators as well as entering what can only be described as a stargate and establishes an extradimensional outpost. Also, Zombies. Like, all of them. As well as that one xeno-biologically monstrosity that can assimilate and morph into all other biologically entities which would probably end life on this planet as we know it. While being at it, X-Com also dismantles a planet-spanning network of alien-human hybrids and recruits them to their cause.

X-Com also reverse-engineers alien technology and friggin' magic as well as defeating the god-aliens that control all the other aliens.

Somewhere in-between X-Com also discovers that the earth is actually hollow (well kind of), invades it, allies with a faction inhabiting it and thwarts the alien's plans to take over inner earth as well. Oh, ghost and demons are also real, an can be killed.


So, X-Com manages to pull all of that off, but somehow can't blackmail, overthrow or have countries intervene on their behalf when a rogue state allies itself with an alien threat? So X-Com is somehow less capable than the United Fruit Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#United_Fruit_Company_lobbying)?

I mean, come on, all it would take is enough PR and a vested interest (oil, weapons of mass destructions, etc.). I don't see why X-Com - which becomes practically the authority regarding paranormal threats - should be unable to pull that off.

Lore aside, I find your decision a bit baffling to be honest, seeing how the feature was probably among the most requested ones for OXCE. Is this really about preventing X-Com to win back countries or about how to implement that feature in a meaningful way that is not over-complicated?


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on April 03, 2021, 08:00:06 pm

So, X-Com manages to pull all of that off, but somehow can't blackmail, overthrow or have countries intervene on their behalf when a rogue state allies itself with an alien threat? So X-Com is somehow less capable than the United Fruit Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#United_Fruit_Company_lobbying)?


How would that be implemented gameplay-wise? Besides that bit about winning back countries, I dunno what else could be done. You can already give the keys to energy monopoly to a shady organization, for what's worth. As for not having real political power... Because the Masquerade must be kept (TM).
Don't mind the fact said media blackout would fail the moment the aliens start doing terror missions. Or when selling hi-tech weapons to the black market.  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 04, 2021, 01:30:23 pm
How would that be implemented gameplay-wise? Besides that bit about winning back countries[...]
But that's what I am asking - is this about X-Com being impotent in that single area or is this about implementation?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on April 04, 2021, 05:52:57 pm
United Fruit Company is just that, a company with a lot of cash, it outgrew goverment that it resided, then basically became government via bribes and brute force of mercenaries which also requires money. They don't have anyone above them and have nothing to lose if caught doing something naughty, they can just throw more cash at it.

X-COM is still an organisation under Council of Nations and even after doing such heroic feats, they didn't outgrew the Council that ultimately funds it and does much of the paperwork, even during the alien invasion, it isn't all out open war.

X-COM has a lot to lose if it would involve itself with shady stuff. Its not like in Apocalypse, that X-COM basically is just another private company and can go against the city itself, while allying with criminal organisations and such.

Even if X-COM could do that without Council shutting them down immediately, what leverage it has to influence countries that already signed the pact with Aliens?
They stop shutting down UFO's and respond to any cases on their soil? Thats nothing, signing the path gives them (in terms of lore, gameplay might not show it) temporary immunity from city attacks as aliens want to show other countries that signing the pact will help them reduce casualities.
Bribes? X-COM doesn't have enough money, couple of millions of dollars is nothing, even in 2000's where they hold more value.
"Pretty eyes", by which I mean bragging about saving the world? Doesn't sound like it would help.
What else can they do for a country to resign from the signed pact?
The only thing I can think of is a false flag operation where X-COM starts murdering civilians in cities in disguise just as aliens did before signing the pact. Probably by sending squads of X-COM hybrids, maybe even dropping captured chryssalids and others. This would in turn force nation to resign and come back to beg X-COM for help.
Sounds like interesting mission from gameplay perspective, using only hybrids with intention to kill civilians, local police force and original aliens who would now try to defend the city.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 04, 2021, 08:15:50 pm
United Fruit Company is just that, a company with a lot of cash, it outgrew goverment that it resided, then basically became government via bribes and brute force of mercenaries which also requires money. They don't have anyone above them and have nothing to lose if caught doing something naughty, they can just throw more cash at it.

I am not talking about the actions UFC took in Guatemala, I am talking about the UFC convincing the US governement to intervene on their behalf in Guatemela, toppling a democratically elected government.

X-COM is still an organisation under Council of Nations and even after doing such heroic feats, they didn't outgrew the Council that ultimately funds it and does much of the paperwork, even during the alien invasion, it isn't all out open war. X-COM has a lot to lose if it would involve itself with shady stuff. Its not like in Apocalypse[...]

Nor does it have to be - there are other ways that the council or any number of countries could use to undermine rogue nations. Do you know how many coups the CIA organized on behalf of the US government? No need for all out war. Just undermine trust in the current government and support groups that want to fight the aliens instead. Just one of many example how this could work out lore-wise.

X-Com already does a lot of 'shady stuff' that the council isn't happy about, curiously enough none of that is enough to out-right shut down the project. Why should bringing a country 'back into the fold' be any different? After all, that would be of global interest - unlike handing over alien technology to MAGMA for example. I am not stating that their shouldn't be any repercussions either, but why of all things should this be 'impossible' to pull off?

Even if X-COM could do that without Council shutting them down immediately, what leverage it has to influence countries that already signed the pact with Aliens[...]

Again, why should the council shut them down when they don't do so in any other case of X-Com 'doing shady stuff', see above. I can think of a number of ways the aliens and rogue governments could be undermined either by X-Com or by other countries.

Bribes? X-COM doesn't have enough money, couple of millions of dollars is nothing, even in 2000's where they hold more value.

Oh please, now your just grasping at straws and you know it. Neither the budget nor the costs of items in-game has any real-world connection, nor is the only that X-Com has to offer money. Of course X-Com could bribe government officials, but it would probably be more low key to simply sway public oppinion (like UFC did) to force a favourable outcome.

"Pretty eyes", by which I mean bragging about saving the world? Doesn't sound like it would help.

Remind me again how X-Com even got into this position in the first place? Oh right, by demonstrating that:

a) there is an actual paranormal threat
b) X-Com is humanity's best hope at dealing with it, if only they can be granted more operational authority (i.e. Promotions)
c) it is in the founding nations best interest to listen to and act on X-Com's advice (e.g. deal with minor cult outposts, monsters etc after X-Com supplis said countries with information)

Quote
The only thing I can think of is a false flag operation where X-COM starts murdering civilians in cities in disguise just as aliens did before signing the pact[...]

That would be one way of dealing with the threat. Another could be to assassinate or blackmail government officials in said state and force them to break the pact. X-Com could use Hybrids to impersonate/'replace' key public figures (mind-control, impersonatron etc.). X-Com could influence public oppinion - seeing how we already have mind-altering drugs, chemtrails etc. Maybe call up or Hybrid buddies and 'arange' it so the chemtrail-fluid that's sprayed there is replaced by other chemicals?

X-Com doesn't even have to be directly involved. They could also demonstrate to other countries that it would be in their own interest to topple/undermine a rogue nation. Let others do their dirty work for a change. Given the amount of useful information X-Com has so far provided (and, again, goes on to save humanity multiple times) I would find it outright unrealistic that this should be something the organization should be unable to pull off, seeing how it would be of global interest to prevent rogue nations from allying themselves with the alien threat.

'Oh hey, council of (still) founding nations? That country that just resigned from the project? They are being influenced/have been forced to do this/their government officals have been replaced by a very real and very terrible threat which poses immediate global danger. Here is the evidence for that. Unfortunately we don't have the means or authority to intervene on that level, but it would be in your best interest to *ahem* do something about that, thanks'

X-Com could either recover enough reliable information (either from governmant officials, alien bases, etc) or outright fabricate it - with according risks/repercussions (e.g. random events where somebody found out about x-com making stuff up and blackmailing them in return for staying silent).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on April 04, 2021, 10:38:07 pm
I am not talking about the actions UFC took in Guatemala, I am talking about the UFC convincing the US governement to intervene on their behalf in Guatemela, toppling a democratically elected government.

Lets not forget that those things take years to pull off even with "indirect" threat being present. Then it was commies, now its aliens. By the time the political machine would move its gears, X-COM would land on the Mars and deal with aliens once and for all.

Nor does it have to be - there are other ways that the council or any number of countries could use to undermine rogue nations. Do you know how many coups the CIA organized on behalf of the US government? No need for all out war. Just undermine trust in the current government and support groups that want to fight the aliens instead. Just one of many example how this could work out lore-wise.

X-Com already does a lot of 'shady stuff' that the council isn't happy about, curiously enough none of that is enough to out-right shut down the project. Why should bringing a country 'back into the fold' be any different? After all, that would be of global interest - unlike handing over alien technology to MAGMA for example. I am not stating that their shouldn't be any repercussions either, but why of all things should this be 'impossible' to pull off?

Rogue to X-COM, not rogue to Council. Lets not forget the same Council also funds Men in Black.
And again, it takes time. Its not a flick of a finger to undermine trust in the current goverment and support groups that want to fight the aliens instead and then stage the coup. Also in terms of a gameplay, it would be some kind of ridiculous ping-pong where goverment of certain nations is being replaced every few months.

There is also a public opinion to be taken into consideration. The second the pact with aliens is signed, we can safely assume lore-wise all directly harmfull alien activity on that nation's soil is ceased. How many people would want to get back into regular city purges?
How much time it requires to create underground ressistance? How much time it requires to gather enough willing alien fighters? Too much in my opinion for the option to be feasable for X-COM at the point that we discuss it, which is "saving" the world couple times, it has to be like 2002-2003 already.


Again, why should the council shut them down when they don't do so in any other case of X-Com 'doing shady stuff', see above. I can think of a number of ways the aliens and rogue governments could be undermined either by X-Com or by other countries.


There is difference between certain kinds of "shady" activity. Handing over alien tech to MAGMA is just giving the toys that many other organisations already have in order to gain adventage against invaders. Blackmailing, assasinations, false flag operations, all of that to force sovereign nation to break the signed pact causing another countless number of dead in city purges isn't any better than what cults were doing.


Oh please, now your just grasping at straws and you know it. Neither the budget nor the costs of items in-game has any real-world connection, nor is the only that X-Com has to offer money. Of course X-Com could bribe government officials, but it would probably be more low key to simply sway public oppinion (like UFC did) to force a favourable outcome.


No, it was just one of the ways I could think of that you possibly could achieve something like that.
Budget and the costs of items have that connection, or don't have, it all depends on what mod creator says. As we don't operate on abstract "credits", but on simple dollars, I don't see why they can't have.

And again, this also takes time. Especially swaying public opinion, how hard could it be to convice entire nation against a pact that grants them safety? How money do you have to throw at officials, politicians and individuals for them to accept regular city purges?
How much money it takes to bribe mind-controlled person?


Remind me again how X-Com even got into this position in the first place? Oh right, by demonstrating that:

a) there is an actual paranormal threat
b) X-Com is humanity's best hope at dealing with it, if only they can be granted more operational authority (i.e. Promotions)
c) it is in the founding nations best interest to listen to and act on X-Com's advice (e.g. deal with minor cult outposts, monsters etc after X-Com supplis said countries with information)


a) Sure.
b) Best hope, but not the only one. And even then as a "best" hope they give Council the evidence that they are fighting the losing war. Flying to Cydonia is the only way to win it. Before X-COM (and thus Council) gets that information, they think that there is nothing you can do but to delay what will have to come eventually in few years.
c) After accquiring this (Cydonia) information its still like a roll of dice if squad sent to Cydonia will be able to go trough and end the mission successfully. In any other way cooperating with aliens actually gives a solid chance of lesser harm being done than fighting to the end.
It surerly isn't a scenario of "fight, or die".


That would be one way of dealing with the threat. Another could be to assassinate or blackmail government officials in said state and force them to break the pact. X-Com could use Hybrids to impersonate/'replace' key public figures (mind-control, impersonatron etc.). X-Com could influence public oppinion - seeing how we already have mind-altering drugs, chemtrails etc. Maybe call up or Hybrid buddies and 'arange' it so the chemtrail-fluid that's sprayed there is replaced by other chemicals?

X-Com doesn't even have to be directly involved. They could also demonstrate to other countries that it would be in their own interest to topple/undermine a rogue nation. Let others do their dirty work for a change. Given the amount of useful information X-Com has so far provided (and, again, goes on to save humanity multiple times) I would find it outright unrealistic that this should be something the organization should be unable to pull off, seeing how it would be of global interest to prevent rogue nations from allying themselves with the alien threat.

'Oh hey, council of (still) founding nations? That country that just resigned from the project? They are being influenced/have been forced to do this/their government officals have been replaced by a very real and very terrible threat which poses immediate global danger. Here is the evidence for that. Unfortunately we don't have the means or authority to intervene on that level, but it would be in your best interest to *ahem* do something about that, thanks'

X-Com could either recover enough reliable information (either from governmant officials, alien bases, etc) or outright fabricate it - with according risks/repercussions (e.g. random events where somebody found out about x-com making stuff up and blackmailing them in return for staying silent).


Surerly assasinating Council officials that decided to sign the pact with aliens would be rather stupid. What would other Council Members think of X-COM? They would be pretty much held hostage by the sole organisation they created and fund. Faced with two options: Stay with X-COM and hope that they find a way to win this losing war and when they do, hope their suicide mission to Mars will be successfull, or get killed by the same X-COM if you want to cooperate with aliens to reduce civilian casualities and maybe even still keep your position.
This isn't giving alien tech to MAGMA for adventage against invaders, its literally keeping Council of Nations hostage and money extortion scheme and then murdering those who go against X-COM. (To think of it, if anything, this should happen in some kind of "evil" path that can be choosen fairly early during the game)

How to blackmail, or bribe someone who is under mind-controll?

With the stuff proposed for X-COM to do, in which way would they be better than aliens at this point? We don't want aliens around, because they mind-controll us, murder those who they don't like, bribe and blackmail others. Sixth invader would be X-COM themselfs.

Saving humanity multiple times means nothing when there is still yet another threat that X-COM can't deal with. And as mentioned before, Council knows that X-COM is fighting a losing war with aliens from Mars.
And by that it requires to look at it from the outside of box. Not as an X-COM commander, but as Council of Nations member.

Its not like nation that resigned from the project had to be mind-controlled and would never do that if they wouldn't be.
Without murderous X-COM, each nation has two ways to deal with invading Ethernals. Either help X-COM and hope they can do something, or sign a pact and possibly get spared alongside your people.
What causes a nation to resign from the project? X-COM inability to deal with threats on their soil. So for a nation to drop the project it requires for them to completly lose the faith in X-COM. To drop the pact with aliens it requires for them to completly lose the faith in being spared by aliens.

Blackmailing, bribes, assasinations, nothing like that will bring back faith in X-COM, what X-COM, or whole rest of the Council of Nations can potentially do to a nation is less scarier than what aliens could. Thats why X-COM shouldn't do such things (unless we go with "evil" path).
Cydonia is quick and easy solution to nations resigning from the project.

In the end and in short: At the point where X-COM could gain the resources, information and political power to do such things (that would be ineffective anyway, unless it would be mentioned before false-flag operations), they already should fly into Cydonia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Fomka on April 04, 2021, 11:23:02 pm
Sorry for interruption of your dialogue about X-COM geopolitical abilities, but which organizations did you mean under
...the nuclear armed russian mafia... and a shady organization that peddles an alien drug
?
Red Dawn? But it has no access to nukes, as far as I understood.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 05, 2021, 09:44:21 am
Sorry for interruption of your dialogue about X-COM geopolitical abilities, but which organizations did you mean under ?
Red Dawn? But it has no access to nukes, as far as I understood.
Unless I am misremembering things or something has changed recently the Red Dawn HQ raid is under a time limit because of an armed nuclear device.

Edit: Seems I was indeed misremembering things. I could have sworn one of the bases/bunkers had a time limit. So just regular Mafia then :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 07, 2021, 08:15:15 pm
Sorry to chime in on this, but that seems like cop-out, seeing how X-Com grows from a niche-organisation numbering a handful of people to single-handedly saving humanity multiple times in a span of, what five to seven years? Not only do you go toe to toe with ancient and modern cults and their leaders, among them an alien would-be goddess (and an invisible ninja master who wields a magical katana), the nuclear armed russian mafia, worshippers of the literal Deep Ones and a shady organization that peddles an alien drug.

My man. A "cop-out" is an excuse to not do work, and nothing else. Therefore, it is a very unsuitable word to describe this situation, seeing as I had to put in work here to achieve this change. Therre is nothing whatsoever I could gain out of this in terms of effort saving, quite the opposite.

Yes, X-Com encounters and defeats many powerful institutions. Regardless, I would like you to think again about how these things work. I've always considered the previous situation to be quite far-fetched, and I also received complaints from people who understood it like I did. Disabliong this mechanic was a relief borne of the feeling of correcting an obvious mistake.

No, later on X-Com actually defeats said the Deep Ones, exterminates a plague of genetically modified monsters, tracks down and destroys an interdimensional battleship and it's creators as well as entering what can only be described as a stargate and establishes an extradimensional outpost. Also, Zombies. Like, all of them. As well as that one xeno-biologically monstrosity that can assimilate and morph into all other biologically entities which would probably end life on this planet as we know it. While being at it, X-Com also dismantles a planet-spanning network of alien-human hybrids and recruits them to their cause.

(...)

Going by this logic, Skorzenny should've been the Führer by 1944. Really, let's just drop this.

So, X-Com manages to pull all of that off, but somehow can't blackmail, overthrow or have countries intervene on their behalf when a rogue state allies itself with an alien threat? So X-Com is somehow less capable than the United Fruit Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#United_Fruit_Company_lobbying)?

Let's not take a banana republic as an example, shall we?

I mean, come on, all it would take is enough PR and a vested interest (oil, weapons of mass destructions, etc.). I don't see why X-Com - which becomes practically the authority regarding paranormal threats - should be unable to pull that off.

Sorry, but I really don't think you understand what you're talking about. Or rather, you got carried away here...

Lore aside, I find your decision a bit baffling to be honest, seeing how the feature was probably among the most requested ones for OXCE. Is this really about preventing X-Com to win back countries or about how to implement that feature in a meaningful way that is not over-complicated?

It was requested? Well not by me. I can't see how it would make any sense in a standard X-Com game, expanded or not.

Admittedly I haven't provided enough info on the lore yet, which is totally my fault. I am now preparing to improve the situation. Nevertheless, let's try to be realistic.

This aside, let me announce that a fix release 1.8b is out.
- Added Council of Earth research.
- Minor rebalance of knives.
- Mines damage TUs.
- Smoke grenades available earlier.
- Fire Extinguisher has smaller radius.
- Handcuffs are now 1x1 (bigob by Chronocide Commando).
- Added autopsy pictures of Ooze and Giant Beetle.
- Fixed a crash on Coelacanth ammo article.
- Fixed the Scorpoid Palace terrain.
- Fixes to some movement costs.
- Assault Suit under armor value fix.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mathel on April 08, 2021, 08:30:51 am
I see how getting a country back would work in an X-COM game.

It depends on whether the defection was caused by threats of mind control.
If it was threats, then it would be impossible to get them back.

If it was mind control, then it would be possible.

However, X-Com would not know which it is. So it would basicaly have to abduct the council member and hope it is mind control.
This would obviously upset the council, no matter if it was mind control or not. (A point penalty so large, that even in late game it would be difficult, but not impossible, to still be in positive that month).
Killing the council member would be much worse, obviously.

Once captured, you could research them and it would either turn out they were threatened by the aliens, just losing you more points, or they were MC'd, giving you the funding back (but no points).

You could only do this once per country, of course.


Since none of the alien missions explicitly state the possiblility of mind control, I guess they just threaten the councillor in XCF.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Finnik on April 08, 2021, 03:58:51 pm
I was trying hard about returning countries back in XCF, but I would say it won't be a thing in XCF because both lore and gameplay reasons. However, mechanics of infiltration was so much pain for me since age 8, so I am willing to make unofficial submod for XCF that could make it happen (if Scorch would not mind, ofc). This part of the game is not covered in FtA so I'm kinda unsatisfied about this story in the end, tho I have no direct plans to play/contribute XCF in near future  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 09, 2021, 01:17:48 am
Lets not forget that those things take years to pull off even with "indirect" threat being present.
[...]Budget and the costs of items have that connection, or don't have, it all depends on what mod creator says. As we don't operate on abstract "credits", but on simple dollars, I don't see why they can't have.
You bring this up a couple of times as kind of an end-all argument for why this is should be "unrealistic" - because time, apparently.

It's interesting how time should be a factor preventing this because it is "unrealistic", yet X-Com can somehow churn out ground breaking scientific discoveries (i.e. reverse-engineer magic, practically), unmask massive cult structures and conspiracies and get "promoted" from a low-key "nut case" organiziation to having full operational control of fighter jets and what can only be described as weapons of mass destruction (of alien origin on top of that) in a time-span of what, twelve months? Eighteen months? Two years?

Why, exactely, should similar feats in regards to rogue states be unrealistic? X-Com can convince "the UN" to grant them total operational authority to act on an outside threat, but can't convince them to act similarily on a threat on the inside because it would take too long?

On that account, why is money being unrealistic only a factor if it supports your argument? Going back to your earlier statement, X-Com only has "a couple of millions", which according to you is not enough to bribe anyone "in reality". Also, "a couple of millions" is apparently enough to fund an international para-military organization, pay for hundreds of engineers, scientists and soldiers. Also, for bases and ground-breaking research, cars, planes, jets, helicopters, missiles, canons, miniature tanks...

Remind me, again, why X-Com shouldn't be able to bribe a government official with "a couple of millions". Or, for that matter, with any of the artifacts, technology etc. that the organization has recovered. Like I said earlier, money isn't even the only thing X-Com has to offer.

There is difference between certain kinds of "shady" activity. Handing over alien tech to MAGMA is just giving the toys that many other organisations already have in order to gain adventage against invaders. Blackmailing, assasinations, false flag operations, all of that to force sovereign nation to break the signed pact causing another countless number of dead in city purges isn't any better than what cults were doing[...]
Oh, like the "countless deaths" your shady deals with MAGMA result in? Elerium bombs in residential areas, assassinations, unstoppable raids, chemical contaminations - seems to me like X-Com is ethical flexible enough to turn a blind eye if the organization profits from it, seeing how it does not intervene.

Apparently making people even more addicted to alien drugs also isn't a problem, as long as it undermines cult (and alien) activity. Truly X-Com at it's finest, putting ethics and morality first. But preventing literal aliens from taking over a country and experiment/enslave/mind control it's population? Nope, might result in casualties.

[...]
It surerly isn't a scenario of "fight, or die".
It's not a pancake either, apparently, but that does not invalidate my statement since the argument was not about it being a pancake, nor was it about "fight or die". It was about X-Com being able to sway countries into taking action (or authorizing X-Com to take action etc.), based upon prior feats - something you called into question.

Surerly assasinating Council officials that decided to sign the pact with aliens would be rather stupid.
Did I state anywhere that X-Com should do that?
Oh, I did not? Would you mind taking that strawmen back home again? BTW, when did council members became their respective country's head of state, being able to sign pacts with aliens?

Quote
Saving humanity multiple times means nothing when there is still yet another threat that X-COM can't deal with[...]Its not like nation that resigned from the project had to be mind-controlled and would never do that if they wouldn't be.
That does not even make any sense. Containing the cults and X-Coms further efforts are the only reason X-the oranization is granted more authority. "Saving"/"Protecting" humanity accounts for everything, apparently. If other countries can be persuaded that a rogue state under the influence of an outside force poses a credible, immediate threat, why shouldn't they act?

And they don't just resign, they let an invading alien force operate unhindered on their own soil. Government officials who support something like that would - in reality - be comitting treason according to practical every constitution I can think of, as it subverts sovereignity of the state. Which is also why something like this poses a threat to humanity at large and would not be supported by a general population that is not drugged out of their mind, mind controlled or otherwise "preoccupied".

Which is the reason X-Com can and should act on this - either directly or indirectly.

What causes a nation to resign from the project? X-COM inability to deal with threats on their soil. So for a nation to drop the project it requires for them to completly lose the faith in X-COM. To drop the pact with aliens it requires for them to completly lose the faith in being spared by aliens.
That is plain out wrong and neither supported by lore nor by game mechanics. You can not prevent countries from being inflitrated, regardless of what you do. Neither does in-game lore state that the aliens "stop" their activities or "spare" people. They simply trade technology for unhindered access to the country in question.

@Solarius
Quote from: Solarius
Yes, X-Com encounters and defeats many powerful institutions. Regardless, I would like you to think again about how these things work. I've always considered the previous situation to be quite far-fetched, and I also received complaints from people who understood it like I did. Disabliong this mechanic was a relief borne of the feeling of correcting an obvious mistake.
The only mistake I can see here is not including it, going by how you portray X-Com and it's achievements in the game in regards to all the threats you have thrown at humanity in the mod. Unless there is major content I am missing, so far X-Com has manged to contain, control or outright exterminate every single one, and you offer absolutely no reason why X-Com should be utterly powerless to prevent an alien force to control a whole country, let alone a few heads of state.

If they are (still) that easily swayed by some piece of alien technology I doubt X-Com couldn't come up with something better, to say the least.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on April 09, 2021, 12:19:21 pm
You bring this up a couple of times as kind of an end-all argument for why this is should be "unrealistic" - because time, apparently.

It's interesting how time should be a factor preventing this because it is "unrealistic", yet X-Com can somehow churn out ground breaking scientific discoveries (i.e. reverse-engineer magic, practically), unmask massive cult structures and conspiracies and get "promoted" from a low-key "nut case" organiziation to having full operational control of fighter jets and what can only be described as weapons of mass destruction (of alien origin on top of that) in a time-span of what, twelve months? Eighteen months? Two years?

Why, exactely, should similar feats in regards to rogue states be unrealistic? X-Com can convince "the UN" to grant them total operational authority to act on an outside threat, but can't convince them to act similarily on a threat on the inside because it would take too long?

On that account, why is money being unrealistic only a factor if it supports your argument? Going back to your earlier statement, X-Com only has "a couple of millions", which according to you is not enough to bribe anyone "in reality". Also, "a couple of millions" is apparently enough to fund an international para-military organization, pay for hundreds of engineers, scientists and soldiers. Also, for bases and ground-breaking research, cars, planes, jets, helicopters, missiles, canons, miniature tanks...

Remind me, again, why X-Com shouldn't be able to bribe a government official with "a couple of millions". Or, for that matter, with any of the artifacts, technology etc. that the organization has recovered. Like I said earlier, money isn't even the only thing X-Com has to offer.
Oh, like the "countless deaths" your shady deals with MAGMA result in? Elerium bombs in residential areas, assassinations, unstoppable raids, chemical contaminations - seems to me like X-Com is ethical flexible enough to turn a blind eye if the organization profits from it, seeing how it does not intervene.


Yes, X-COM can do such things in short span of time, because its the convention of established world. X-COM and thus X-COM Files resides in an established world where people act like people, goverments generally act like governments (with conspiracy theories spice). While reverse-engineering magic only requires 100 scientists and few months doesn't suddently have to mean that they can stage a coup and create ressistance in a weekend.

Both our statements go with the "realistic" approach, you argue it is, I argue it isn't. But would it be realistic for literally 5 different invading forces to start their conquering in the same time, while each and every being weak enough to not be able to stage full-on invasion? Aliens who travelled atleast dozen of light years can't just straight up invade Earth. Aliens who sit on Earth underwater since dawn on dinosaurs can't just immediately overwhelm all Earth's forces despite having all of that time to prepare. Kinda-aliens who sit in the underground for Kane knows how much can't just invade Earth, while having even more time than T'leth aliens had. Interdimentional aliens who travel between dimentions can't just straight up beat pre-2000 Earth forces straight-on.

It's the established world to give humans the chance. It has to be this way in any game with aliens. There is no reason and 0 chance for
super-technologically advanced civilisation to lose with humanity in "realistic" scenario. That's why authors have to pull unrealistic stuff for the story to not end in quick and sweep "game over". War of the Worlds for example. What deals with super advanced Martians in their Tripods with pre WWII tech humanity? Bacteria and other microorganisms. Super advanced aliens don't have air filters.

So in the world of X-COM it is possible to reverse-engineer magic quickly, but other things are still take time. Especially something that deals with people and not futuristic "magical" technology. X-COM needs to research that for them to win, it is necessary. X-COM doesn't need to overthrow governments, its not necessary. So if something is unrealistic, but necessary - Have to be in the game. But if something is unrealistic and also unnecessary - doesn't have to be in the game.

"Why, exactely, should similar feats in regards to rogue states be unrealistic? X-Com can convince "the UN" to grant them total operational authority to act on an outside threat, but can't convince them to act similarily on a threat on the inside because it would take too long?"

Maybe they can, but it requires too much time, so they don't. Especially when they gain knowledge about Cydonia.

About money. Who says that X-COM doesn't get some things cheaper? Engineers and Scientists (and agents) might work for the pay in the early game, but as X-COM gets knowledge that the threat is serious (trough the same scientists) they might decide to work for the "cause" and their pay goes for the research instead and their bare minimum necessities. What is the use of cash during alien invasion? Cheaper fighter jets, cheaper missles, cheaper cannons, cheaper other stuff. The Red Tape doesn't work always against X-COM, a mere flashlight might cost 200$ because of it, but used Russian fighter jet might cost way less. Again, up to mod creator, he can make it work for your argument, or for mine.

Indeed, a couple of milions is nothing in my opinion when talking about officials who have that much power. You expect Council Member to go against his people's safety for couple hundreds thousands of dollars? Especially during such crisis?

"Remind me, again, why X-Com shouldn't be able to bribe a government official with "a couple of millions". Or, for that matter, with any of the artifacts, technology etc. that the organization has recovered. Like I said earlier, money isn't even the only thing X-Com has to offer."

Some people just don't take bribes. Some people might be under alien mind-control. Some people might take bigger bribes from other source. X-COM has alien artifacts, yes. You know who has MORE alien artifacts? Aliens. Who can throw more exotic tech at people, X-COM, or Aliens? Especially when Aliens plan to take it back right after invasion, probably.
Lets not act like X-COM is the only one who could give bribes. There is a lot more and bigger organisations that have more resources and more cash and that like aliens more than they do humans, even without mind-control. Men in Black for example.

Oh, like the "countless deaths" your shady deals with MAGMA result in? Elerium bombs in residential areas, assassinations, unstoppable raids, chemical contaminations - seems to me like X-Com is ethical flexible enough to turn a blind eye if the organization profits from it, seeing how it does not intervene.

Apparently making people even more addicted to alien drugs also isn't a problem, as long as it undermines cult (and alien) activity. Truly X-Com at it's finest, putting ethics and morality first. But preventing literal aliens from taking over a country and experiment/enslave/mind control it's population? Nope, might result in casualties.

Where it is written that MAGMA uses tech from X-COM for all that stuff you mention? I can't quite recall that from my memory.

Also I don't remember that X-COM psyclone makes people even more addicted, quite the opposite, X-COM psyclone is safer and also cuts cult and alien activity which is a win-win scenario for X-COM, Council and Humanity.

I don't know what you mean by that: "But preventing literal aliens from taking over a country and experiment/enslave/mind control it's population? Nope, might result in casualties."
Every single action you take against aliens does that. It prevents literal aliens to sign a pact with a nation. You (and I) don't argue about preventing aliens from taking over a country and experiment/enslave/mind control it's population. You (and I) argue about aliens already taking over the country (signing the pact) and then trying to reverse that. Prevention and Reversion are two different things. If X-COM is unable to stop infiltrations and/or generally sucks at dealing with threats on certain nation's soil, that nation signs a pact with aliens.
Do everything you can to prevent that, but if they signed, they signed. If they signed, work towards Cydonia, instead of political drama.

It's not a pancake either, apparently, but that does not invalidate my statement since the argument was not about it being a pancake, nor was it about "fight or die". It was about X-Com being able to sway countries into taking action (or authorizing X-Com to take action etc.), based upon prior feats - something you called into question.

What I meant by "its not fight, or die scenario" is that aliens winning doesn't necessarly means death for humanity.
In the conspiracy theory world of X-COM, Council of Nations members rule their nations, not their governments (in my opinion, can't remember, or find a lore that states otherwise). They created X-COM and Men in Black (among others, probably) to deal with the situation. X-COM is to fight aliens, Men in Black is to cooperate with them.
Council knows everything that X-COM does. Individual members of that Council know that X-COM is fighting a losing war.
So they have a choice. It would be better for them if X-COM wins, but for all they know, the chances are slim and before knowing about Cydonia, there is literally no sign of any chance of winning with Ethernals.
Those choices are:
a) Help X-COM as long as it possible, as long as they deal good enough with threats on their nation's soil, stay with them.
b) If they don't do that "good enough", sign pact with aliens who promise better treatment for cooperation.

From non-player perspective, the second option is reasonable in situation that Council is if X-COM does a poor job. It doesn't matter that X-COM saved the world 1000 times before, if they can't do it 1001, it means nothing.

Did I state anywhere that X-Com should do that?
Oh, I did not? Would you mind taking that strawmen back home again? BTW, when did council members became their respective country's head of state, being able to sign pacts with aliens?

You did stated "assasinations". And its not directly stated who signs the pact. I assume its the individual Council Members. Because how Council of Nation members were choosed? Its just some random people in the office in the time, assigned to random nations?
Of course not, those are each individual nation representatives, if not de facto rulers. It is conspiracy theory mod, after all. Each nation having one secretive ruler with democracy and such as a facade.
In both scenarios, being a representative, or secret ruler, they are the ones to sign a pact, because they are the people that matter. So who else to assasinate, bribe, or blackmail if not Council members?

Who signs those pacts? Also up to mod creator, I assume its Council members. Any proof that that they don't?

That does not even make any sense. Containing the cults and X-Coms further efforts are the only reason X-the oranization is granted more authority. "Saving"/"Protecting" humanity accounts for everything, apparently. If other countries can be persuaded that a rogue state under the influence of an outside force poses a credible, immediate threat, why shouldn't they act?

And they don't just resign, they let an invading alien force operate unhindered on their own soil. Government officials who support something like that would - in reality - be comitting treason according to practical every constitution I can think of, as it subverts sovereignity of the state. Which is also why something like this poses a threat to humanity at large and would not be supported by a general population that is not drugged out of their mind, mind controlled or otherwise "preoccupied".

Which is the reason X-Com can and should act on this - either directly or indirectly.

More authority =/= all authority.

And by those countries to "act" you mean all out war against nation that peacefully signed a pact? Or maybe perpetual assasinations, bribes and blackmails of every single official of that nation? While under direct protection of aliens? While under incoming invasion that aliens aren't quite strong enough? Time to fight with ourselfs and make humanity weaker.

"And they don't just resign, they let an invading alien force operate unhindered on their own soil. Government officials who support something like that would - in reality - be comitting treason according to practical every constitution I can think of, as it subverts sovereignity of the state. Which is also why something like this poses a threat to humanity at large and would not be supported by a general population that is not drugged out of their mind, mind controlled or otherwise "preoccupied"."

Where you get that idea? Its like with France surrendering to Germans during WWII. Goverment officials who supported something like that commited treason?
Imagine being a human in a X-COM FILES world. On the news you hear about city purges all over the world, your country included, your city included. You live in constant fear, chryssalids dropped here, reapers dropped there. Then your country decides to sign a pact with aliens and it all stops where you live. Surerly, a glimpse of safety is something that general population would never support. Surerly, general population never gave any of its rights in order for "feel" a bit safer. Impossible to think of that common bread-eater would have choosen short-sighted safety over humanity first and fight to the death. WWII for example, every single Polish citizen under German and Soviet Union occupation fought to the death, mothers with children, elderly, they all fought 24h/7 days a week, nobody just accepted what happened and lived the life of "general peace".

No country ever surrendered to any other country, right? Because it violates sovereignity and we all know how people put empty words over their well-being in the moment.

And X-COM does act on this. What is the purpose of taking those countries back from aliens, when you have no chance to beat them? As mentioned before, X-COM fights with that by working towards and finally going to Cydonia.

That is plain out wrong and neither supported by lore nor by game mechanics. You can not prevent countries from being inflitrated, regardless of what you do. Neither does in-game lore state that the aliens "stop" their activities or "spare" people. They simply trade technology for unhindered access to the country in question.

You can't? Then for what reason I shut down all of those aliens with infiltration missions? Why did I did all of those city purges missions? No way to prevent, or atleast delay countries being infiltrated? Then whats the point in doing anything?

Maybe there is no direct statement in lore that aliens cease their directly harmfull activities, but then whats the point of a country signing the pact? If nothing happens, if they still get demolished, then whats the point of that pact? That would be very stupid on alien's side to do such things. Why? Because if they treat nations that signed the pact better, other nations will be more willing to sign it, so it will allow them to win faster and with less casualities on their own, or humanity casualities. After all, they are here to expand their stellar empire, experiment on people and such, not to destroy the Earth.

Where is the lore that says that pacts with aliens just grants the nation with alien tech in exchange and nothing else? Thats quite stupid.
" - Oh, greetings mister Ethernal, oh yes, thank you, I will take this plasma rifle, million deaths a month is a small price to pay for such piece of technology".

" - Hey, see this other country?"
" - Yeah, what of it?"
" - They signed a pact with aliens."
" - They did? And what they got for it?"
" - Sweet, sweet alien tech and just couple of million people dead each month!"
" - Nice... Maybe we also should also sign the pact? That pesky X-COM keeps that tech for themselfs, gready bastards, they have no morals."

Average conversation of Council Members, goverment officials and generally everyone who contributes to signing a pact with aliens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 09, 2021, 03:50:19 pm
Yes, X-COM can do such things in short span of time, because its the convention of established world. X-COM and thus X-COM Files resides in an established world where people act like people, goverments generally act like governments (with conspiracy theories spice). While reverse-engineering magic only requires 100 scientists and few months doesn't suddently have to mean that they can stage a coup and create ressistance in a weekend[...]

Sorry, but your line of reasoning is getting ridiculous. You are okay with all the other unrealistic set-pieces, but X-Com being powerless in that one particular area is necessary because it would make the whole setting "unrealistic"?

So in the world of X-COM it is possible to reverse-engineer magic quickly, but other things are still take time. Especially something that deals with people and not futuristic "magical" technology[...]

Okay, so things that deal with "people" (I take you mean the term in a broader sense) take time, but reasearching magical technology does not. Is that why a couple of scientists can interrogate an alien creature who's language they have just deciphered (in a couple of weeks, by themselves more or less) in - again - a couple weeks and get them to spill the beans on alien power structures, history etc.? This goes for practically any topic that deals with interrogations, alien or cult power structures etc.

If what you say was accurate there should be a disconnect here. "Technology" - regardless of how complex it is - should be easier to research than dealing with "social topics" (for lack of a better term, encompassing everything from interrogations to cult/alien history, power structures etc). This is obviously not the case. X-Com also seems to have no problem forging alliances left and right in a record amount of time with societies they are either outright hostile or have had no prior contact with.(e.g. Hybrids, Shogg).

About money. Who says that X-COM doesn't get some things cheaper? Engineers and Scientists (and agents) might work for the pay in the early game[...]

Apart from the fact that you have nothing to support your line of reasoning it also does not make much sense, seeing how x-com can somehow go bankrupt and get shut down because your agents, engineers and scientists demand their full pay - even when X-Com is financially tethering on the edge. You are also aware that higher ranked soldiers get paid more, aren't you? What, do their "bare minimum necessities" somehow double or tripple in cost just because they advanced two or three ranks?

And again, because you seem to have trouble grasping the concept:
a) people don't have to be bribed with money
b) nor do you bribe heads of state, council members etc.
c) you bribe people with influence
d) bribes are not the only friggin' option

Not being able to bribe some people does not mean people in general can not be bribed, nor does it mean that those people that can be bribed are unable to influence those that can not. As for "bUT you cAn't BRIbe minD-CONtrolLEd PEople". No, but X-Com can counter-act their mind control or conditioning. That would be totally in-line with in-game lore. Again, it does not have to be bribes and assassinations, why do you keep pretending it has to be?

Where it is written that MAGMA uses tech from X-COM for all that stuff you mention? I can't quite recall that from my memory[...]Also I don't remember that X-COM psyclone makes people even more addicted, quite the opposite, X-COM psyclone is safer and also cuts cult and alien activity which is a win-win scenario for X-COM[...]

Random events description, see en_us.yml->
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STR_DESTROY_EXALT_UFOPEDIA -> "Our operation is a success! With the right settings, we managed to make Psiclone addicts even more addicted so now they favor our stuff over alien stuff and refuse their orders[...]"
Addicts become more addicted, says so right there. Apparently not a problem, since - as you state yourself - it's a win for everyone. You know who else thinks getting people even more addicted to drugs is a good thing? Purdue Pharma. But hey, I guess it's alright for X-Com to become a major drug-cartel, I mean there really wasn't any other way, and it's for the good of everyone. Apart from the addicts of course.

I don't know what you mean by that: "But preventing literal aliens from taking over a country and experiment/enslave/mind control it's population? Nope, might result in casualties."Every single action you take against aliens does that. It prevents literal aliens to sign a pact with a nation.

...you might want to take a look at the underlaying game-mechanics, especially the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#Alien_Missions) and this clarification by Meridian (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7127.msg112438.html).

Nothing you do (or fail to do) prevents alien infiltrations. You can - theoretically - "delay" the UFO-spawns for a limited time, but you can not prevent infltrations. It does not matter in the least how well (or terrible) you "defend" a country from the aliens for infiltrations to take place. Poor performance only reflects on funding changes. Countries don't "decide" to sign a pact with the aliens because of poor performance.

Quote
In the conspiracy theory world of X-COM, Council of Nations members rule their nations, not their governments (in my opinion, can't remember, or find a lore that states otherwise).

That might be just your head canon, nothing I can find in the lore supports that. This is also in outright contradiction to several lore entries that reference governments as signing pacts and cooperating with the aliens after being intimidated (e.g. alien infiltration entry, alien dominance).

And by those countries to "act" you mean all out war against nation that peacefully signed a pact[...]

Again, I think your strawmen would be better of on some field, not on these forums.

Where you get that idea? Its like with France surrendering to Germans during WWII. Goverment officials who supported something like that commited treason?

You might want to look up Vichy France and how "treason" is defined in various countries. Letting a foreign hostile force operate on native soil unhindered, cooperating with said force and/or undermining constitutional rights should be among most of them.

You can't? Then for what reason I shut down all of those aliens with infiltration missions? Why did I did all of those city purges missions? No way to prevent, or atleast delay countries being infiltrated? Then whats the point in doing anything?

Again, this would be the point where you might want to take a look at the underlaying game mechanics. No, you can not prevent alien infiltrations (right now), nor does anything you do have any influence in regards to countries signing pacts with aliens. It does not matter how many "city purges" you prevent (or ignore), how many UFOs you shoot down or assault or how many Zombies you exterminate. That only affects funding.

Which is way it is a stupid idea to "prevent" X-Com from reversing alien pacts. It made sense for the limited game mechanics of the base game. It does not make sense whatsoever for this mod.

Maybe there is no direct statement in lore that aliens cease their directly harmfull activities, but then whats the point of a country signing the pact?[...]Where is the lore that says that pacts with aliens just grants the nation with alien tech in exchange and nothing else? Thats quite stupid.

"Earth governments can be infiltrated by alien agents which are human in appearance. This can result in official contact between aliens and governments at the highest level. The climax of this activity is characterized by intense UFO activity in the vicinity of major cities. The aliens will attempt to sign a pact with an earth government by offering knowledge of their superior technology. In return the government will allow the aliens to conduct their activity unhindered. This alien mission represents the highest level threat to X-Com. If a government agrees to a pact then its funding will cease."

Taken straight from the game.

The point? Government officials (and other people, probably) getting their hands on blueprints for alien blasters, apparently. In return the aliens are allowed to operate unhindered on their territory. I guess that includes alien abduction, experimention etc.? But I guess that's okay if you provide your population with all the Kool-Aid. Your wife was abducted by aliens in gave birth to something that isn't human? Just drink the Kool-Aid. Alien hybdrids operating in broad daylight? Drink the Kool-Aid. Government not giving a crap? Just drink the Kool-Aid.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 09, 2021, 04:56:27 pm
I see how getting a country back would work in an X-COM game.

It depends on whether the defection was caused by threats of mind control.
If it was threats, then it would be impossible to get them back.

If it was mind control, then it would be possible.

However, X-Com would not know which it is. So it would basicaly have to abduct the council member and hope it is mind control.
This would obviously upset the council, no matter if it was mind control or not. (A point penalty so large, that even in late game it would be difficult, but not impossible, to still be in positive that month).
Killing the council member would be much worse, obviously.

Once captured, you could research them and it would either turn out they were threatened by the aliens, just losing you more points, or they were MC'd, giving you the funding back (but no points).

You could only do this once per country, of course.


Since none of the alien missions explicitly state the possiblility of mind control, I guess they just threaten the councillor in XCF.

Even if X-Com knew all that, it is not within their power to do anything about it. Even if they assassinated everyone involved, what would come of it? You can't topple a modern state machine by offing a president, things haven't worked this way since antiquity.

The previous story was along similar lines, but it was stretched really thin, especially for something that's supposed to happen multiple times per campaign. For a single mission this might work using lots of plot, special circumstances, allies etc., but definitely not as a generic thing.

I was trying hard about returning countries back in XCF, but I would say it won't be a thing in XCF because both lore and gameplay reasons. However, mechanics of infiltration was so much pain for me since age 8, so I am willing to make unofficial submod for XCF that could make it happen (if Scorch would not mind, ofc). This part of the game is not covered in FtA so I'm kinda unsatisfied about this story in the end, tho I have no direct plans to play/contribute XCF in near future  ;D

Of course I don't mind, a submod can be anything :)




You bring this up a couple of times as kind of an end-all argument for why this is should be "unrealistic" - because time, apparently.

It's interesting how time should be a factor preventing this because it is "unrealistic", yet X-Com can somehow churn out ground breaking scientific discoveries (i.e. reverse-engineer magic, practically), unmask massive cult structures and conspiracies and get "promoted" from a low-key "nut case" organiziation to having full operational control of fighter jets and what can only be described as weapons of mass destruction (of alien origin on top of that) in a time-span of what, twelve months? Eighteen months? Two years?

Why, exactely, should similar feats in regards to rogue states be unrealistic? X-Com can convince "the UN" to grant them total operational authority to act on an outside threat, but can't convince them to act similarily on a threat on the inside because it would take too long?

Because accelerated research is a necessity to make the game work, while conquering countries is just, well... cringy.

(Also, the tech level is much blurred in XCF, considering that much of alien tech is already known to some groups on Earth... But I think using it as an fully sufficient explanation would feel like a cop-out.)

On that account, why is money being unrealistic only a factor if it supports your argument? Going back to your earlier statement, X-Com only has "a couple of millions", which according to you is not enough to bribe anyone "in reality". Also, "a couple of millions" is apparently enough to fund an international para-military organization, pay for hundreds of engineers, scientists and soldiers. Also, for bases and ground-breaking research, cars, planes, jets, helicopters, missiles, canons, miniature tanks...

I agree that using some kind of "Council credits" instead would be a good idea. I've never had the time to address it properly, because it's purely cosmetic and also nobody complains.

Remind me, again, why X-Com shouldn't be able to bribe a government official with "a couple of millions". Or, for that matter, with any of the artifacts, technology etc. that the organization has recovered. Like I said earlier, money isn't even the only thing X-Com has to offer.
Oh, like the "countless deaths" your shady deals with MAGMA result in? Elerium bombs in residential areas, assassinations, unstoppable raids, chemical contaminations - seems to me like X-Com is ethical flexible enough to turn a blind eye if the organization profits from it, seeing how it does not intervene.

Definitely so, though much depends on the player's decisions.

(I won't comment on the rest of the discussion now, because I think it's not exactly on this topic, but feel free to ask if I should clarify anything or if you're interested in my opinion.)

@SolariusThe only mistake I can see here is not including it, going by how you portray X-Com and it's achievements in the game in regards to all the threats you have thrown at humanity in the mod. Unless there is major content I am missing, so far X-Com has manged to contain, control or outright exterminate every single one, and you offer absolutely no reason why X-Com should be utterly powerless to prevent an alien force to control a whole country, let alone a few heads of state.

Because one is a shadow organization and the other is not.

From your post I infer that you portray this problem as a situation where some nefarious cabal takes over a government to do dirty deeds with the aliens. But typically this is not so; there is no need for a secret cult, all it takes is to convince a legitimate government to switch sides. This goes against the will of a majority of the Council of Earth, so normally it doesn't happen easily, but if the country is determined and/or sufficiently supported by pro-alien radicals on the Council (like those funding MiB), then a political switch is possible. You can't prevent such a policy change by charging the White House in a bison costume and beating up some officials; this requires foreign diplomacy, and that's way above your level.

If they are (still) that easily swayed by some piece of alien technology I doubt X-Com couldn't come up with something better, to say the least.

No, X-Com cannot promise participation in an ancient pangalactic federation. And the tech X-Com can provide isn't even that hard to get from other sources, primarily MiBs (although as long as the anti-alien coalition dominates, such acts are very unlikely to be allowed openly).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: RolandVasko on April 09, 2021, 05:36:50 pm

Because accelerated research is a necessity to make the game work, while conquering countries is just, well... cringy.[/b]



ha! it brings a bit resemblance of HoI, grandstrategies Hearts of Iron serie !  :P :D  ( remind me HoI : Modern Days Warfare - Millenium Dawn
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on April 09, 2021, 05:54:15 pm
snip

Even if some points of I brought up were deconstructed, in the end it still its pretty much up to mod creator and how he feels about it. All of the fluff lore text can be changed in a flick of a finger to allow toppling goverments on the whim, or not.

My opinion still remains unchanged, at the point of X-COM being in power to even try to do such things, they should already fly to Cydonia, instead of playing ping-pong with Ethernals but instead of little empty white, or orange ball, its the countries who one day sign pact with aliens to then drop it next week, to sign pact again next month. As ridiculous as current "apocaliptic" event curfews :) .
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mathel on April 09, 2021, 06:35:38 pm
Even if X-Com knew all that, it is not within their power to do anything about it. Even if they assassinated everyone involved, what would come of it? You can't topple a modern state machine by offing a president, things haven't worked this way since antiquity.

The previous story was along similar lines, but it was stretched really thin, especially for something that's supposed to happen multiple times per campaign. For a single mission this might work using lots of plot, special circumstances, allies etc., but definitely not as a generic thing.
I am not suggesting assassination, but removal of MC, if present.

In what I am proposing, killing the person responsible would just give a massive point penalty (let's say -500 000) and not return the country.

Abducting them would give (judging from how I get about 20 000 points per month) -30 000 points. They could then be interrogated and would give one of:
1. Mind control cleared off head of country A. Country A resumes funding.
2. Head of country A was not mind controlled. Country A does not resume funding and other council members are furious. -10 000 points.

Due to research involved, there would have to be a separate unit, mission, and research topics for each country and it would still only be performable once per country with success not guaranteed.

Edit: It is fine if there is now way to get countries back. I am just saying how it could work if there was a way. It would be costly and on failiure potentially devastating to X-Com, as they obviously can't go around killing or abducting world leaders.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 09, 2021, 10:02:46 pm
Even if some points of I brought up were deconstructed, in the end it still its pretty much up to mod creator and how he feels about it. All of the fluff lore text can be changed in a flick of a finger to allow toppling goverments on the whim, or not.

My opinion still remains unchanged, at the point of X-COM being in power to even try to do such things, they should already fly to Cydonia, instead of playing ping-pong with Ethernals but instead of little empty white, or orange ball, its the countries who one day sign pact with aliens to then drop it next week, to sign pact again next month. As ridiculous as current "apocaliptic" event curfews :) .

I see you are still straw-manning your way through this. Alright, have it your way, I think I see where you are coming from.

Any acknowledgement that not even the game-mechanics itself support your view? As in, countries get infiltrated regardless of X-Com "defending" or "abandoning" them?

BTW, who or what are these Ethernals you keep talking about?

Due to research involved, there would have to be a separate unit, mission, and research topics for each country and it would still only be performable once per country with success not guaranteed.
As far as I am aware that is not doable given current game mechanics. Research topics can not be country-dependent, let alone affect inifiltrated countries directly. The "massive" negative points-value is also quite meaningless unless you 'decolonize' countries in two consecutive months.

@Solarius
So X-Com can neither prevent countries being infiltrated, nor reverse infiltrations now? I could understand one or the other, but not both. The point of a game is usually enabling player interaction, not taking it away. What brought on this change of heart? I mean I have seen the roots for this with the non-avoidable random events (at least some of which depend on player interaction), but I didn't think you would actively limit player options this way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on April 09, 2021, 11:26:51 pm
I see you are still straw-manning your way through this. Alright, have it your way, I think I see where you are coming from.

Any acknowledgement that not even the game-mechanics itself support your view? As in, countries get infiltrated regardless of X-Com "defending" or "abandoning" them?

BTW, who or what are these Ethernals you keep talking about?

Game-mechanics itself perfectly support my view as once a nation signs a pact, you can't do anything about it. :D
And you can delay infiltrations and thats what matters. And since lore-wise X-COM is fighting a losing war, its the only reasonable thing that no matter how hard you try, eventually you have to lose, or go to Cydonia, which perfectly sums up any attempts at trying to sway governments back on your side just for the sake of it as it is pointless in the long run.

Instead there should be something that would prevent game-over just because enough council nations resigned from the project, but having to rely purerly on cash gained from selling stuff. From small organisation to global agency to underground ressistance in a span of one game and few in-game years. Something like "X-COM independence project".

Apparently they are called "Ethereals", always called them "Ethernals", never noticing the difference. Makes sense, but either way, "ethernal" sounds cooler and more alien.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TartFamiliarGadwall-size_restricted.gif
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 10, 2021, 12:32:50 am
Game-mechanics itself perfectly support my view as once a nation signs a pact, you can't do anything about it. :D
And you can delay infiltrations and thats what matters. And since lore-wise X-COM is fighting a losing war, its the only reasonable thing that no matter how hard you try, eventually you have to lose, or go to Cydonia, which perfectly sums up any attempts at trying to sway governments back on your side just for the sake of it as it is pointless in the long run.
So your whole schtick about countries signing pacts because "every single action [x-com does] counts" was just what - BS? Why? I don't get it.

How would X-Com even be able to retain any of the granted authority, let alone outside support (buying/selling/craft leases etc) if that is based on the council itself? Do the council salvage corps suddenly work for free? Do they subvert the all-knowing and controlling cabal on a whim to continue cleaning up after X-Com? Whom would X-Com even be selling stuff to?

Apparently they are called "Ethereals", always called them "Ethernals", never noticing the difference. Makes sense, but either way, "ethernal" sounds cooler and more alien.
I don't know, it sounds pretty trite and on the nose tbh. Ethereal=[ur=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element)l]Ether[/url]=[ur=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(mythology)l]Aether[/url]. But again, I think I see where you are coming from and why Ethernal would sound more appealing to certain demographics

Also...
Quote from: krautbernd
Lore aside, I find your decision a bit baffling to be honest, seeing how the feature was probably among the most requested ones for OXCE.
It was requested? Well not by me. I can't see how it would make any sense in a standard X-Com game, expanded or not.
Don't give me that Solarius, when you were the first one to cast the vote so it could get implemented (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5932.0.html). I get that you now - for whatever reason - abhore the feature for XCF, but the least you could do is acknowledge that you - at the time - were among the first people to voice support for its implementation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mathel on April 10, 2021, 08:00:31 am
As far as I am aware that is not doable given current game mechanics. Research topics can not be country-dependent, let alone affect inifiltrated countries directly. The "massive" negative points-value is also quite meaningless unless you 'decolonize' countries in two consecutive months.
As for the penalty, the capture penalty would be the council being angry and to stop X-Com from doing this too often. The kill penalty could be replaced with whatever Dioxine did with Dr.X's invitation. Except you lose if you fail to capture the guy, not just if you die.

As for research depending and affecting a country, apparently not possible. To remove pact, destruction of a base is required. In which case, I agree that it should not be allowe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 10, 2021, 11:05:50 pm
As for the penalty, the capture penalty would be the council being angry and to stop X-Com from doing this too often. The kill penalty could be replaced with whatever Dioxine did with Dr.X's invitation. Except you lose if you fail to capture the guy, not just if you die.

As for research depending and affecting a country, apparently not possible. To remove pact, destruction of a base is required. In which case, I agree that it should not be allowe.
The problem with the points-penalty is that they don't roll over into the following month. You could theoretically pull this off without worrying about the penalty at all, provided you are at a point where you usually achieve a positive rating. Which is why a better way to implement this would be to make this a major investement by the player (not just monetary) and - if possible - have some kind of random factor (as in no guaranteed way to get whatever item/unit/etc. is required to achieve this). Again, killing/assassinating is not the only way to pull this off. This could involve destroying machinery, infiltrating and recovering an item etc. This could for example also take place in the dreamscape or something akin to inception (i.e. "planting" the idea inside a government officials head).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: misha_cilantro on April 20, 2021, 06:36:38 am
Two off-topic questions...

1) What's the recommendation for updating mid-campaign? I've got a 1.7 going that's in the first year of the invasion. Do I stick to 1.7 or is updating to 1.8 recommended?
2) Googled but came up with nothing... what's up with the Skymarshall and tanks? I can't get it off that thing! Sure, it can't hit a damn thing, but... it's a tank! I want it!

Edit: huh. the issue with the Skymarshall and my tank seems to maybe be map specific.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 20, 2021, 08:44:25 pm
1) What's the recommendation for updating mid-campaign? I've got a 1.7 going that's in the first year of the invasion. Do I stick to 1.7 or is updating to 1.8 recommended?

You can go ahead and update to 1.8. Just make sure to get the latest OXCE.

2) Googled but came up with nothing... what's up with the Skymarshall and tanks? I can't get it off that thing! Sure, it can't hit a damn thing, but... it's a tank! I want it!

Edit: huh. the issue with the Skymarshall and my tank seems to maybe be map specific.

Probably something in the way. Nothing a small rocket wouldn't solve.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on April 20, 2021, 09:09:40 pm
Two off-topic questions...

1) What's the recommendation for updating mid-campaign? I've got a 1.7 going that's in the first year of the invasion. Do I stick to 1.7 or is updating to 1.8 recommended?
2) Googled but came up with nothing... what's up with the Skymarshall and tanks? I can't get it off that thing! Sure, it can't hit a damn thing, but... it's a tank! I want it!

Edit: huh. the issue with the Skymarshall and my tank seems to maybe be map specific.

The Skymarshall thing is indeed a map specific thing, it seems to be a small rock, I used the cannon (NOT the explosive one, I don't recommend that so close to your items and troops) and it cleared up the obstruction
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: misha_cilantro on April 21, 2021, 01:13:53 am
The Skymarshall thing is indeed a map specific thing, it seems to be a small rock, I used the cannon (NOT the explosive one, I don't recommend that so close to your items and troops) and it cleared up the obstruction

Ah beans thanks for the warning! I did actually blast the ground until I could move without ever considering my gear O..o I'll... see if anything got blown up and restore if it did. Thanks for the warning.

You can go ahead and update to 1.8. Just make sure to get the latest OXCE.

Okay, I updated and it seems good. The only weirdness is that I had an Alien Embassy mission on the map. It's still there, with a missing string, and I can do it without keys now. Should I do it? Go in and abort? Hack it out of the save file somehow??

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 21, 2021, 12:54:21 pm
Okay, I updated and it seems good. The only weirdness is that I had an Alien Embassy mission on the map. It's still there, with a missing string, and I can do it without keys now. Should I do it? Go in and abort? Hack it out of the save file somehow??

Yeah, we left the relevant code in, so old saves aren't broken. It just won't appear in the future.

You can do the mission if you like. Personally, I'd just remove it from the save as an old feature, but it shouldn't cause any issues.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on April 24, 2021, 12:06:11 am
Just raided my first STR_ALIEN_BIG_BASE_ aka Colony aka former Embassy.

My two cents for the political debate: I think it could be fun if, after a country withdraws, some sort of resistance faction would emerge. But the Alien Embassy/Colony is keeping them busy. Destroy the Colony and while you wouldn't get the country back, you'd start to get care packages from the resistance or something. What that would be, I dunno. Radar boost within that country at least, helps finding proper bases there. Maybe money (obviously less than what the country gave while still on board). Equipment maybe but could be a nuisance if it's obsolete... Anyways, I think something fun could be done here.

And if you ever decide there should be a way to get a country back, supporting the resistance with some escalating missions would be the way to go. Or supporting with costly research/manufacturing projects that trades time and money towards getting the country back...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on April 24, 2021, 09:44:54 am
A few questions:

1) Are there any reasons as to why the clinics are so inconsistent? do they have a specific trigger? I've done 3 runs and in my current one I haven't had a single clinic mission pop up, and I already have the hybrid circuitry thing that lets you recruit hybrids, the last two campaigns I did have them occur regularly (both shady and sinister), I don't believe I had this happen before 1.8

2) Do MIB bases spawn more of their UFO's or missions?

3) Is there somewhere where I can read what each of the different UFO missions do?

4) Are sectopods my only option for alien electronics? I remember getting them from some missions but I cant recall which exactly, and I havent been getting them from UFO's or disassemblies

* An observation: I am not sure if this is just on my end or an OXCE thing rather than XCF but since the last update some of the HIDDEN MOVEMENT for the AI really tank my framerate or stutter a lot (I'm not entirely sure what the correct term is), again its more of an observation rather than a question
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 24, 2021, 03:00:11 pm
4) Are sectopods my only option for alien electronics? I remember getting them from some missions but I cant recall which exactly, and I havent been getting them from UFO's or disassemblies
No, you can get the from disassembling certain power armors and other (robotic) alien units. If you don't care about spoilers you can search the manufacture.rul for alien electronics to find out which ones. IIRC you can also recover them as loot from some cult related missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: GRUNCHmitCH on April 25, 2021, 11:36:44 am
Öi Solarius,

I´m trying to write something to thank you ( and everyone who helped with this) for letting me relive the experience of playing ufo back then... literally can´t find the words though, so I´ll just go for it:

You complete me and I love you
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 26, 2021, 04:53:05 pm
My two cents for the political debate: I think it could be fun if, after a country withdraws, some sort of resistance faction would emerge. But the Alien Embassy/Colony is keeping them busy. Destroy the Colony and while you wouldn't get the country back, you'd start to get care packages from the resistance or something. What that would be, I dunno. Radar boost within that country at least, helps finding proper bases there. Maybe money (obviously less than what the country gave while still on board). Equipment maybe but could be a nuisance if it's obsolete... Anyways, I think something fun could be done here.

And if you ever decide there should be a way to get a country back, supporting the resistance with some escalating missions would be the way to go. Or supporting with costly research/manufacturing projects that trades time and money towards getting the country back...

Sounds like a fun module, but quite complex on both the base code and the content... :)

1) Are there any reasons as to why the clinics are so inconsistent? do they have a specific trigger? I've done 3 runs and in my current one I haven't had a single clinic mission pop up, and I already have the hybrid circuitry thing that lets you recruit hybrids, the last two campaigns I did have them occur regularly (both shady and sinister), I don't believe I had this happen before 1.8

Clinics were removed, therefore irrelevant. Anyway, they don't influence hybrid recruitment.

2) Do MIB bases spawn more of their UFO's or missions?

Right now, all bases are the same, regardless of race/faction.

3) Is there somewhere where I can read what each of the different UFO missions do?

Articles on the missions, including vanilla ones. There's nothing else.

* An observation: I am not sure if this is just on my end or an OXCE thing rather than XCF but since the last update some of the HIDDEN MOVEMENT for the AI really tank my framerate or stutter a lot (I'm not entirely sure what the correct term is), again its more of an observation rather than a question

I really don't think that's the case.

Öi Solarius,

I´m trying to write something to thank you ( and everyone who helped with this) for letting me relive the experience of playing ufo back then... literally can´t find the words though, so I´ll just go for it:

You complete me and I love you

You're breathtaking! ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on April 26, 2021, 05:37:48 pm
Gotcha, thanks Solarius! this mod's amazing  8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 28, 2021, 03:04:00 pm
Just a small nitpick - all the tavern raid missions have an abort penalty, even those where the informant is nowhere to be found. Wouldn't it be prudent in that case for X-Com to stage a tactical retreat, seeing how your agents are (in most cases) not wearing armor and the primary target (extracting the informant) can not be accomplished?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 28, 2021, 03:48:16 pm
Just a small nitpick - all the tavern raid missions have an abort penalty, even those where the informant is nowhere to be found. Wouldn't it be prudent in that case for X-Com to stage a tactical retreat, seeing how your agents are (in most cases) not wearing armor and the primary target (extracting the informant) can not be accomplished?

Well, it's subject to interpretation. Basically, you failed the mission even before it started, so now you either make up for it by "solving the case", or you'll have no defence from the pricks on the Council.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 28, 2021, 04:44:59 pm
Isn't that a bit contrived though, seeing how you only get a penalty of 15 when you abort and your contact has been "taken" by the MIB? On that account, shouldn't you get a penalty for killing the MIB in that case too (seeing how they also act on the councils instructions)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 28, 2021, 07:35:41 pm
Isn't that a bit contrived though, seeing how you only get a penalty of 15 when you abort and your contact has been "taken" by the MIB? On that account, shouldn't you get a penalty for killing the MIB in that case too (seeing how they also act on the councils instructions)?

It is a little contrived, but what would you propose? To remove abort penalties from the versions with MiB?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 28, 2021, 11:02:23 pm
It is a little contrived, but what would you propose? To remove abort penalties from the versions with MiB?
No, I'd instead redistribute abort penalties for the the other versions - especially the ones where you have an actual chance to extract the target (though for the one that auto-resolves after one turn this would be mostly cosmetic). The council being pricks or not, I'd wager they can and would differentiate between X-Com not being able to meet the target and failing to extract him if he is actually at the location indicated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 29, 2021, 02:30:16 pm
No, I'd instead redistribute abort penalties for the the other versions - especially the ones where you have an actual chance to extract the target (though for the one that auto-resolves after one turn this would be mostly cosmetic). The council being pricks or not, I'd wager they can and would differentiate between X-Com not being able to meet the target and failing to extract him if he is actually at the location indicated.

So, only apply the penalty if the guy is present?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 29, 2021, 08:02:48 pm
So, only apply the penalty if the guy is present?
No, I'd apply higher penalties if the guy is present/could be extracted and lower penalties if he is not. No penatly would mean the council is made of of sensible people, which it is arguably not :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 30, 2021, 11:47:24 am
No, I'd apply higher penalties if the guy is present/could be extracted and lower penalties if he is not. No penatly would mean the council is made of of sensible people, which it is arguably not :P

We'll see. It's just 50 points, so meh. And the descriptions hint at a more complex situation than "is there"/"isn't there".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: justaround on April 30, 2021, 12:45:54 pm
Sounds like a fun module, but quite complex on both the base code and the content... :)
I was wondering about this one and whether it could be implemented simply. Would it be possible to make the rebel support managed through some council contacts fluff-wise, but mechanically simply return support of a country, with reset funding size to make it start really small (rebels not being able to spare much as they retake the country, but doing better the longer it's not under alien control anymore)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on April 30, 2021, 04:56:52 pm
I was wondering about this one and whether it could be implemented simply. Would it be possible to make the rebel support managed through some council contacts fluff-wise, but mechanically simply return support of a country, with reset funding size to make it start really small (rebels not being able to spare much as they retake the country, but doing better the longer it's not under alien control anymore)?
Not possible given current mechanics unfortunately, you can not "reset" funding.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 04, 2021, 03:13:56 pm
Solarius, what are your plans concerning manufacturing costs/profits? Right now there are no items above (or even at) the break-even point, and the only items that come close are craft cannons (gauss/rail). While I take it that this is intended, the disparity between craft cannons and all other items seem kind of odd.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on May 04, 2021, 03:57:01 pm
Solarius, what are your plans concerning manufacturing costs/profits? Right now there are no items above (or even at) the break-even point.

Oh, I have an idea I've been meaning to suggest. Let's make Psiclone the only profitable item (gotta cater to those Exalt addicts!). Then have the game keep tally of how many you've sold, and after some number you'd start to get negative events from the Council accusing you of diverting your efforts from intercepting the Aliens to becoming a drug tycoon. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 04, 2021, 04:35:09 pm
Oh, I have an idea I've been meaning to suggest. Let's make Psiclone the only profitable item (gotta cater to those Exalt addicts!). Then have the game keep tally of how many you've sold, and after some number you'd start to get negative events from the Council accusing you of diverting your efforts from intercepting the Aliens to becoming a drug tycoon. ;D
First off: not possible given current game mechanics. Secondly, terminating EXALT already sees X-COM/the council/whoever flooding the market with a cheaper, more effective version of it. X-COM basically creates a drug cartel for the good of mankind. Why should anyone buy an inferior version of psiclone at that point?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on May 04, 2021, 05:55:36 pm
First off: not possible given current game mechanics. Secondly, terminating EXALT already sees X-COM/the council/whoever flooding the market with a cheaper, more effective version of it. X-COM basically creates a drug cartel for the good of mankind. Why should anyone buy an inferior version of psiclone at that point?

1. Fine. I imagined it would be relatively simple.
2. You'd manufacture the new good stuff, not inferior. And yes the Council or whoever is taking care of it (but not X-Com unless you're actually putting engineers to the task). And you bet the Council is making a sweet profit from it, those bastards. So then have the council be angry at X-Com for getting involved in the selling and disrupting the market. Or write any fluff that works.

The thought of drugs being the only profitable item and X-Com hustling at it is just too funny to me, in a dark way. And it would be funny if there were some negative consequences. And if profitable Psiclone just doesn't work story wise, then make Storm manufacturable and profitable etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 04, 2021, 08:28:10 pm
1. Fine. I imagined it would be relatively simple.

This is the latest ruleset reference for OXCE (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)). As far as i am aware there are no event triggers for item sales (or any way to bind anything to sale numbers of items). Let me know if you find a way to make it work.

2. You'd manufacture the new good stuff, not inferior. And yes the Council or whoever is taking care of it (but not X-Com unless you're actually putting engineers to the task). And you bet the Council is making a sweet profit from it, those bastards. So then have the council be angry at X-Com for getting involved in the selling and disrupting the market. Or write any fluff that works.
That would be quite the feat, seeing X-COM with it's limited resources outcompete/outsell the council nations who have - for all intents and purposes - unlimted production resources and finances. I don't think it being Storm or Psiclone would make a difference tbh.

IIRC Solarius also stated in the past that X-COM does not directly buy or sell stuff, but that the council acts as an intermediary. Hence his idea of using Council Credits instead of $ (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg137982.html#msg137982).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 04, 2021, 09:15:16 pm
Solarius, what are your plans concerning manufacturing costs/profits? Right now there are no items above (or even at) the break-even point, and the only items that come close are craft cannons (gauss/rail). While I take it that this is intended, the disparity between craft cannons and all other items seem kind of odd.
Pretty sure you can profit off electric prods decently well. Haven't found anything else yet that makes decent buck tho.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 04, 2021, 10:06:52 pm
Pretty sure you can profit off electric prods decently well. Haven't found anything else yet that makes decent buck tho.

How would you profit off those, taking into account salary for engineers and maintenance costs? They cost $1000 to produce and you can sell them for $6000, but they take 600 eng. hours to make. One engineer costs $25k a month. Meaning one engineer can make about one of those a month. You actually lose money by doing that. The profit indiciator in the manufacturing window only takes into account item cost and sell price. You actually just lose less money than by not manufacturing anything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 04, 2021, 10:58:24 pm
I later realized you probably took into account engineer costs and yeah. Granted, selling something is probably better than firing and rehiring engineers but not a true profit
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 05, 2021, 02:45:15 pm
Solarius, what are your plans concerning manufacturing costs/profits? Right now there are no items above (or even at) the break-even point, and the only items that come close are craft cannons (gauss/rail). While I take it that this is intended, the disparity between craft cannons and all other items seem kind of odd.

I think it's not completely true, some items might profitable, but only if they require limited materials.

I'm not sure about the cannons, but if making them still nets a loss, then it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 05, 2021, 04:03:32 pm
I'm not sure about the cannons, but if making them still nets a loss, then it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, that was (supposed to be) my original question - are you balancing the mod towards manufacturing not being viable to support x-com financially?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 05, 2021, 09:05:28 pm
Yeah, that was (supposed to be) my original question - are you balancing the mod towards manufacturing not being viable to support x-com financially?

Yes, definitely, for several reasons, both gaming and lore.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 06, 2021, 12:38:38 am
Totally unrelated note, but what exactely is the point of the UAC raid in caveman disguises? Going in with absolutely no armor against superior odds is bound to end in fuck up of epic proportions, as demonstrated by my team getting nailed in the first round by rocket launcher wielding armored up UAC strike team. I also don't think arriving in a Dragonfly fits in with the cavemen disguise btw.

Going over this again right now - to be frank, the whole concept of that missions just strikes me as badly designed. At that point X-COM knows what kind of gear UAC is selling and what precautions somebody would take who is illegally distributing those weapons. Why would X-COM choose a cavemen disguise of all things? For the lolz?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mrvex on May 06, 2021, 01:48:19 am
Totally unrelated note, but what exactely is the point of the UAC raid in caveman disguises? Going in with absolutely no armor against superior odds is bound to end in fuck up of epic proportions, as demonstrated by my team getting nailed in the first round by rocket launcher wielding armored up UAC strike team. I also don't think arriving in a Dragonfly fits in with the cavemen disguise btw.

Going over this again right now - to be frank, the whole concept of that missions just strikes me as badly designed. At that point X-COM knows what kind of gear UAC is selling and what precautions somebody would take who is illegally distributing those weapons. Why would X-COM choose a cavemen disguise of all things? For the lolz?

The whole undercover mission thing is quite underwhelming and not exactly fun and most of them arent even required to progress (with UAC being an exception from top of my head).
I dont see the point of having missions where you are forced to use crap equipment and crap weapons and crap agent count against enemies who are fully armoured and armed with all the weapons you cannot have... like rocket launchers. If anything, the enemies should adhere to the gear rules.

If UAC has troops armed with machineguns and rocket launchers walking the streets, national guard/local military would go after them the moment any random joe would call the police to ask about some paramilitary types walking around the streets.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 06, 2021, 02:42:07 am
to be fair, you can 100% just loot them and then use their weapons on that same mission. Probably not how the missions were meant to be played but whatever.

I assume the cave men thing is because there is a cult of apocalypse subculture called cavemen but it really isn't that great going up against rocket launcher jerks with them. If it was just UAC rifles etc, it probably wouldn't be as bad.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 06, 2021, 12:02:49 pm
to be fair, you can 100% just loot them and then use their weapons on that same mission. Probably not how the missions were meant to be played but whatever.

I assume the cave men thing is because there is a cult of apocalypse subculture called cavemen but it really isn't that great going up against rocket launcher jerks with them. If it was just UAC rifles etc, it probably wouldn't be as bad.
Yeah, good luck with. Unless you have superhuman agents, use save scumming or get extraordinarily lucky with the spawns you are probably bound to lose part of your squad (that was my experience). Of course you would be bound to use their weapons, unless you want to keep lobbing grenades.

Again, why cave men? Why not westmen or motor men or easy riders? All of them would probably fit in wearing a coat and carrying pistols or guns. Do we really need another mission with "artificial" difficulty on top of the other infiltration missions? With beach, winter resort etc. it is actually somewhat believable that x-com would stand out using their regular gear. This is simply not the case when x-com tries to go undercover as one of those subcultures/cult of apocalypse themselves.

Even more so, why would cavemen in particular be interested in buying high-tech, space-capable weapons?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on May 06, 2021, 12:49:40 pm
Yeah, good luck with. Unless you have superhuman agents, use save scumming or get extraordinarily lucky with the spawns you are probably bound to lose part of your squad (that was my experience).

I agree with you about the silliness of the whole situation, but I just wanted to brag that I did it without save scumming. Napalm grenades was my trick and I threw smoke too to give cover when retrieving those UAC weapons. Sure I might have gotten lucky too, I don't deny that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 06, 2021, 01:17:07 pm
Totally unrelated note, but what exactely is the point of the UAC raid in caveman disguises? (...) For the lolz?

The whole undercover mission thing is quite underwhelming and not exactly fun

Oh puh-leeeeze.

Do you serously want all missions to look the same? Always in best gear and such? Seriously?

I am not even going to respond to such a silly "issue".

If the mission is too hard, it can be adjusted. I haven't played it as part of a real campaign yet, so I'm not sure.

to be fair, you can 100% just loot them and then use their weapons on that same mission. Probably not how the missions were meant to be played but whatever.

I didn't say so... In fact, it feels liker the obvious approach to me. :)

I assume the cave men thing is because there is a cult of apocalypse subculture called cavemen but it really isn't that great going up against rocket launcher jerks with them. If it was just UAC rifles etc, it probably wouldn't be as bad.

Like I said, minor corrections can be made, as long as it doesn't go too far. After all, it's pretty much a one-time mission.

Again, why cave men? Why not westmen or motor men or easy riders? All of them would probably fit in wearing a coat and carrying pistols or guns. Do we really need another mission with "artificial" difficulty on top of the other infiltration missions? With beach, winter resort etc. it is actually somewhat believable that x-com would stand out using their regular gear. This is simply not the case when x-com tries to go undercover as one of those subcultures/cult of apocalypse themselves.

I'll be completely serious now: I can't remember why I chose the Cavemen. Probably it was simply the easiest option to make. I don't want to change this decision now, so maybe I'll just decrease the difficulty by removing some weapons.

Even more so, why would cavemen in particular be interested in buying high-tech, space-capable weapons?

Well, they also use them, just not as often. They can't all be toting big bones and remain relevant...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: hipsu on May 06, 2021, 02:03:24 pm
The big clash to me was that my Cavemen arrived in a Dragonfly and immediately charged out of the craft throwing Napalm everywhere. Not very infiltraty. They should start in some office room or something, like how in Ski and Beach the dudes start in a house so one could imagine some spy stuff going on before the mission started...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 06, 2021, 02:06:54 pm
The big clash to me was that my Cavemen arrived in a Dragonfly and immediately charged out of the craft throwing Napalm everywhere. Not very infiltraty. They should start in some office room or something, like how in Ski and Beach the dudes start in a house so one could imagine some spy stuff going on before the mission started...

I guess this mission could use some polishing, it was made under heavy time constraints, sorry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 06, 2021, 02:22:16 pm
Oh puh-leeeeze.

Do you serously want all missions to look the same? Always in best gear and such? Seriously?
You'll note that I stated that other infiltration mission at least kind of fit in with x-com not using "their best gear". This fits in with beach missions not spawning units with rocket or grenade launchers. There is no reason as to why x-com should go in naked on this one. You are not facing a cult, you are facing a rogue element of an international weapons conglomerate. X-Com should not be dumb enough to send in agents in animal furs against guys carrying high-tech weapons and wearing body armor. Your entry even reads that these guys should not underestimated, even when outgunned.

I am not even going to respond to such a silly "issue".
This is valid criticism for a badly designed and thought out mission. Not only does it not fit in with other infiltration mission, it also makes x-com out to be amateurs - which at that point that are not. X-COM has at least recruited a military envoy by then. Somebody who would no doubt veto such an approach, being acutely aware what kind of forces X-Com agents will be facing.

This would go over as an april fools joke, not as a serious mission. The setup makes absolutely no sense, seeing how x-com has a plethora of other options that would not leave their agents as cannon fodder (seeing how using rookies on this one isn't really an option).

Well, they also use them, just not as often. They can't all be toting big bones and remain relevant...
So I take it that also also usually employ Dragonflies or Helicopters? If I was UAC I would probably hightail it if my supposed cavemen contact turns up in anything but land-based transportation.

I guess this mission could use some polishing, it was made under heavy time constraints, sorry.
I was not aware that this was part of the "crunch" - that explains the "hasty" approach x-com takes ;)

If you have a chance to go over the misison and absolutely need to use the cavemen disguise, why not at least make it a bit more elaborate, seeing how this is the start of a bigger arc?

Why not approach this as an exfiltration mission instead? X-Com meets the contact+henchman in cavemen disguise, now you have to knock him out/capture him and exfiltrate him while reinforcements (i.e. UAC mercenaries who were standing by in case things go bad) arrive on the scene.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 06, 2021, 02:43:27 pm
You'll note that I stated that other infiltration mission at least kind of fit in with x-com not using "their best gear". This fits in with beach missions not spawning units with rocket or grenade launchers. There is no reason as to why x-com should go in naked on this one. You are not facing a cult, you are facing a rogue element of an international weapons conglomerate. X-Com should not be dumb enough to send in agents in animal furs against guys carrying high-tech weapons and wearing body armor. Your entry even reads that these guys should not underestimated, even when outgunned.

Yes, I cannot argue with that. I was only referring to infiltration missions on the whole.

This is valid criticism for a badly designed and thought out mission. Not only does it not fit in with other infiltration mission, it also makes x-com out to be amateurs - which at that point that are not. X-COM has at least recruited a military envoy by then. Somebody who would no doubt veto such an approach, being acutely aware what kind of forces X-Com agents will be facing.

Eh I dunno, we've done worse. I think the problem wouldn't be pronounced if the enemiues weren't using such powerful weapons.

This would go over as an april fools joke, not as a serious mission. The setup makes absolutely no sense, seeing how x-com has a plethora of other options that would not leave their agents as cannon fodder (seeing how using rookies on this one isn't really an option).
So I take it that also also usually employ Dragonflies or Helicopters? If I was UAC I would probably hightail it if my supposed cavemen contact turns up in anything but land-based transportation.

OK, I need to redesign this, I guess:

- decrease enemy threat by taking away heavy weapons and such
- forbid use of flying vehicles

I really don't want to change whom you're impersonating, because I don't have any other cult costumes, and it's not a trivial thing to make. (Well I have Osiron, not used anywhere yet, but it makes no sense.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 06, 2021, 03:18:24 pm
OK, I need to redesign this, I guess:

- decrease enemy threat by taking away heavy weapons and such
- forbid use of flying vehicles

I really don't want to change whom you're impersonating, because I don't have any other cult costumes, and it's not a trivial thing to make. (Well I have Osiron, not used anywhere yet, but it makes no sense.)
But at that point it becomes just "another" infiltration mission.

Asylum apparitions is fun because the enemies&mechanics involved aredifferent. Also, music.
Syndicate raid is fun because you get to fight in a high-rise where you need to check your corners and watch your agents energy. Also you get to wear sick coats and get to shoot security in the head like Neo did in The Matrix.
Beach is kind of fun because of limited inventory and clobbing people with surf boards.
Industrial espionage is kind of fun because you get to beat people with a crowbar like Gordon Freeman and shoot people with a stapler gun like that guy from American Psycho.

What is the intended fun you are supposed to have in this mission? Throw incendiary grenades at guys in body armor while your agents are dressed as cavemen and get shot and die? I don't get it.

This might sound entitled (and I honestly don't want it to), but as far as I am concerned this needs more than some minor balancing, especially as this is the break-out mission for a bigger arc. No offense, but I think this is has become a case of quantitiy (as in, this missions needs to be done so the player can move on to other missions) over quality. I'd rather have less but more enjoyable/stand-out missions.

Again, if you want to have x-com wearing caveman outfits, do something that is more than a vanilla mission. Please.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Marrik on May 06, 2021, 10:22:23 pm
What about some kind of mission where you ambush a UAC convoy in a forest or canyon or something while disguised as Westmen? Maybe using only weapons Westmen use?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mrvex on May 07, 2021, 12:06:36 am
What about some kind of mission where you ambush a UAC convoy in a forest or canyon or something while disguised as Westmen? Maybe using only weapons Westmen use?

If you are ambushing them in the open, having disguises is completely pointless since there is nothing to infiltrate, you are far from cities where things like tanks and miniguns would raise alarm.
Not even making a bait in the open would justify enforcing concealment rules, given that XCOM could have 1-2 live baits in disguises to do the talking while rest of the team simply hides with full XCOM arsenal.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on May 07, 2021, 04:15:49 am
Well, they also use them, just not as often. They can't all be toting big bones and remain relevant...

Thermal/ACOG scoped Big Bone Clubs when?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 07, 2021, 01:18:05 pm
Solarius, is it intended that X-Com is free to murder UAC employees with impunity? It's one thing to kill UAC mercenaries during an "arrest", but how come X-Com is free to straight out raid a UAC R&D-Lab and pretty much kill everyone on sight without even getting so much as a negative score? Most of the engineers are bystanders, yet they are treated as legitimate targets.

On top of that UAC is a major supplier of X-Com tech / technology in general. Are they okay with X-Com raiding their facilities and abducting their staff? While the council didn't "discourage" X-Com from pursuing leads regarding illegal weapon distribution, I don't think they meant "raid UAC facilities and murder/abduct their staff with impunity".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mrvex on May 07, 2021, 02:47:44 pm
Solarius, is it intended that X-Com is free to murder UAC employees with impunity? It's one thing to kill UAC mercenaries during an "arrest", but how come X-Com is free to straight out raid a UAC R&D-Lab and pretty much kill everyone on sight without even getting so much as a negative score? Most of the engineers are bystanders, yet they are treated as legitimate targets.



Its a core feature thing, you can only have 3 teams in game, XCOM, Civilians and XCOM Allies, then Enemies themselves
Engineers if they would be be placed to Civilians, they would be attacked by UAC guards which makes even less sense than XCOM trying to contain informations and forbidden knowledge.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 07, 2021, 02:53:51 pm
Its a core feature thing, you can only have 3 teams in game, XCOM, Civilians and XCOM Allies, then Enemies themselves
Engineers if they would be be placed to Civilians, they would be attacked by UAC guards which makes even less sense than XCOM trying to contain informations and forbidden knowledge.
I am aware of the limititations concerning x-com vs. aliens vs. civilians - this is about points values assigned to killed units/recovered bodies and no other negative repercussions stemming from the raid.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 07, 2021, 04:23:31 pm
But at that point it becomes just "another" infiltration mission.

(...)

What is the intended fun you are supposed to have in this mission?

To be honest I don't see a need to make every mission different. Yes, it's a fairly standard infiltration mission. What's wrong with that? Infiltration missions are fun.

Solarius, is it intended that X-Com is free to murder UAC employees with impunity? It's one thing to kill UAC mercenaries during an "arrest", but how come X-Com is free to straight out raid a UAC R&D-Lab and pretty much kill everyone on sight without even getting so much as a negative score? Most of the engineers are bystanders, yet they are treated as legitimate targets.

It is indeed not normal, but in this case intended - for political reasons.

On top of that UAC is a major supplier of X-Com tech / technology in general. Are they okay with X-Com raiding their facilities and abducting their staff? While the council didn't "discourage" X-Com from pursuing leads regarding illegal weapon distribution, I don't think they meant "raid UAC facilities and murder/abduct their staff with impunity".

I think the UAC arc kinda answers that if you get deeper. They are probably not okay with that, but they have their circumstances.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 07, 2021, 06:23:42 pm
To be honest I don't see a need to make every mission different. Yes, it's a fairly standard infiltration mission. What's wrong with that? Infiltration missions are fun.
...for a reason and to a varying degree. This one is not, due to the setup. You can stretch suspension of disbelief to a point, but x-com wearing animal furs while going up against a fully armed and armored strike-team is defintely something that does not fit the narrative.

If this was part of an elaborate plan to abduct a contact it might be believable. But X-Com starts out completely exposed, facing off mercenaries and trusting in their bare skin to block bullets (or rockets). X-Com arrives, disembarks and attacks immediately.

At that point, what's even the purpose of wearing the disguise? During beach+winter missions X-Com starts out in buildings - meaning the disguise was necessary to infiltrate said locations. As a result your agents also start out in cover (more or less). Industrial espionage has enemies that are lightly armed, mostly with makeshift weapons due to the setting. Which fits in with X-Com going in unarmored - your agents are - if anything - only slightly outmatched. With this mission there isn't even any explanation in the briefing that something has gone wrong or how that plan was supposed to go off (compare the "meet the informant" mission).

It's not even clear why the disguise is needed in the first place - I guess X-Com sets up the meeting remotely (otherwise they could just nap their contact there and then), drives up in a Van (with tainted windows so no one but the driver would actually need to be in disguise?), gets out and then...demands that the mercenaries submit and get in the van? This is at least missing an explanation as to why, exactely, X-Com is starting off in a shooting gallery, outmatched and with no backup-plan.

It is indeed not normal, but in this case intended - for political reasons. I think the UAC arc kinda answers that if you get deeper. They are probably not okay with that, but they have their circumstances.
But why is X-Com going in guns blazing if you are (originially) only supposed to "arrest and interrogate" their personal? Shouldn't this also be a mission that has weapon restrictions, seeing how you are also facing unarmed civilians? The engineers working at that site aren't even involved in anything illegal, going by the interrogation.

Why is X-Com concerned about interring some human bones they find in a cave, but has no qualms about shooting unarmed and innocent civilians?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on May 09, 2021, 07:10:23 am
Is there a cruiser UFOpeadia or research entry? I had never seen one before until a terror mission today
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 17, 2021, 01:21:25 am
Do you need to shoot down the cyberweb battleship in order to trigger the mission or can you just wait it out, it's not exactly clear. Because christ is shooting that thing down terrifying to me atm
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on May 17, 2021, 01:37:17 am
Do you need to shoot down the cyberweb battleship in order to trigger the mission or can you just wait it out, it's not exactly clear. Because christ is shooting that thing down terrifying to me atm

Unless it changes at higher difficulties (which I don't think) you shouldn't need to shoot it down, I've dealt with the mission like 2 or 3 times in my campaigns where I didn't even see the battleship itself, just the mission
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Fomka on May 17, 2021, 09:24:38 pm
Am I right thinking that the Cyberweb Battleship is
that large UFO that once a month flies for a long time over almost all the globe at a low altitude?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 17, 2021, 10:30:30 pm
Yes
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: unarmed drifter on May 17, 2021, 11:01:14 pm
so i did the syndicate CEO mission an hour ago.
Unfortunately, the burning CEO freak stepped on a proxy grenade which i threw a few turns earlier and forgot about. Now he's dead and i only have the corpse.
How bad is that? This time i made a proper save before mission start so i'm willing to do the mission again if it's a Black Lotus avatar thing.
(i lost 7/16)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 18, 2021, 12:08:15 am
You need to catch a live one, but the mission will show up again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Thunderwing280 on May 18, 2021, 12:13:19 am
so i did the syndicate CEO mission an hour ago.
Unfortunately, the burning CEO freak stepped on a proxy grenade which i threw a few turns earlier and forgot about. Now he's dead and i only have the corpse.
How bad is that? This time i made a proper save before mission start so i'm willing to do the mission again if it's a Black Lotus avatar thing.
(i lost 7/16)
You need the CEO alive in order to advance the storyline, him dying isn't terrible, another mission will always pop up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2021, 04:08:34 pm
...for a reason and to a varying degree. This one is not, due to the setup. You can stretch suspension of disbelief to a point, but x-com wearing animal furs while going up against a fully armed and armored strike-team is defintely something that does not fit the narrative.

If this was part of an elaborate plan to abduct a contact it might be believable. But X-Com starts out completely exposed, facing off mercenaries and trusting in their bare skin to block bullets (or rockets). X-Com arrives, disembarks and attacks immediately.

At that point, what's even the purpose of wearing the disguise? During beach+winter missions X-Com starts out in buildings - meaning the disguise was necessary to infiltrate said locations. As a result your agents also start out in cover (more or less). Industrial espionage has enemies that are lightly armed, mostly with makeshift weapons due to the setting. Which fits in with X-Com going in unarmored - your agents are - if anything - only slightly outmatched. With this mission there isn't even any explanation in the briefing that something has gone wrong or how that plan was supposed to go off (compare the "meet the informant" mission).

It's not even clear why the disguise is needed in the first place - I guess X-Com sets up the meeting remotely (otherwise they could just nap their contact there and then), drives up in a Van (with tainted windows so no one but the driver would actually need to be in disguise?), gets out and then...demands that the mercenaries submit and get in the van? This is at least missing an explanation as to why, exactely, X-Com is starting off in a shooting gallery, outmatched and with no backup-plan.

All right. So what would be a good way to improve this? Should I scrap the infiltration mechanics entirely? Wouldn't the mission become trivial then? I don't want to boost the enemy team any further, I think it would be inappropriate. Maybe impersonate someone else?

Do other people have similar thoughts?

Is there a cruiser UFOpeadia or research entry? I had never seen one before until a terror mission today

It's broken... Thanks, fixed :)

Do you need to shoot down the cyberweb battleship in order to trigger the mission or can you just wait it out, it's not exactly clear. Because christ is shooting that thing down terrifying to me atm

No need to shoot it down to progress, but it flying around will seriously hurt your reputation.

You need the CEO alive in order to advance the storyline, him dying isn't terrible, another mission will always pop up.

Yeah, they have a steady supply of monstrous CEOs. It's not even a joke!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: unarmed drifter on May 18, 2021, 05:55:55 pm
the power of reloads: 3/16 and a live CEO!  8)


All right. So what would be a good way to improve this?
...
Do other people have similar thoughts?

i liked the mission because of the silly outfits, i'm a big fan of the more "campy" moments in the mod (piratez does the same very well).
like krautberndi said, make the the mission like beach/ski ones - unretreatable and let's start around a dumpster fire in one of the derelict buildings.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on May 19, 2021, 03:47:25 am
Can I just say how much I love the
Troop Ship domination
missions? the unique weapons, units that the aliens won't regularly use and the combination of close quarters UFO + open map combat, 
I really hope to see more special units for the other alien races as well, do you have any further plans for them?

These and the MIB missions are some of my personal favorite parts of the game, rewarding, challenging and fun
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 19, 2021, 11:03:48 pm
It feels extremely underwhelming to me that the hybrid missions after defeating exalt are a total pushover by comparison. Not that they have to start out extremely difficult right away but even the equipment they use is 90% outclassed by the time you get to them. Only exception is the chempistols/guns and even those are kinda bad at range.

Also are you supposed to have to mass interrogate hybrids you find on like convoys, settlements, farms etc. to get new missions? I just recently (year 2000) unlocked the chemtrails mission and it's still an absolute breeze for me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Laconian on May 20, 2021, 01:35:07 am
Should I scrap the infiltration mechanics entirely?

Registered my account so that I could say this: please don't.

At least to me, infiltration missions are quite fun, even if all we get is a different outfit.

In reality I play mostly for these unconventional missions. I always mod a few new items that make them a bit more immersive, and I wish I had the map making skills to submod some extra scenarios (like stopping an assassination attempt on a busy highway, or using jumpsuit camouflage to sneak into somewhere, or making my way across a minefield).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 20, 2021, 04:57:32 pm
Registered my account so that I could say this: please don't.

At least to me, infiltration missions are quite fun, even if all we get is a different outfit.

In reality I play mostly for these unconventional missions. I always mod a few new items that make them a bit more immersive, and I wish I had the map making skills to submod some extra scenarios (like stopping an assassination attempt on a busy highway, or using jumpsuit camouflage to sneak into somewhere, or making my way across a minefield).
This post sounds more like a general "infiltration missions" post, when the post you're quoting is specifically about the initial UAC infiltration mission with cavemen disguises. I like the idea of infiltration missions as a whole but I'm not sure about that specific mission, since atm it is quite rough and doesn't exactly feel like it makes sense.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Laconian on May 20, 2021, 05:57:37 pm
This post sounds more like a general "infiltration missions" post, when the post you're quoting is specifically about the initial UAC infiltration mission with cavemen disguises. I like the idea of infiltration missions as a whole but I'm not sure about that specific mission, since atm it is quite rough and doesn't exactly feel like it makes sense.

I don't disagree that that mission doesn't make much sense without forcing some headcanon. From my part, just having to wear a different outfit is enough though. From a general perspective, removing the craft and making the mission non-abortable could work for everyone else, I think.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: unarmed drifter on May 20, 2021, 07:31:17 pm
removing the craft and making the mission non-abortable could work for everyone else, I think.

imo all inflitration missions should work like that. Because you infiltrated you're now at the heart of the enemy - then your cover blows and shtf
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 21, 2021, 05:35:42 pm
Can I just say how much I love the (...) missions?

Yes! ;)

Thank you, I'm actually developing the mod in these directions now.

It feels extremely underwhelming to me that the hybrid missions after defeating exalt are a total pushover by comparison. Not that they have to start out extremely difficult right away but even the equipment they use is 90% outclassed by the time you get to them. Only exception is the chempistols/guns and even those are kinda bad at range.

Also are you supposed to have to mass interrogate hybrids you find on like convoys, settlements, farms etc. to get new missions? I just recently (year 2000) unlocked the chemtrails mission and it's still an absolute breeze for me.

Frankly the hybrid arc is in a constant flux. These missions were never supposed to be hard, but I guess some improvements are in order. All in due time.

Registered my account so that I could say this: please don't.

At least to me, infiltration missions are quite fun, even if all we get is a different outfit.

In reality I play mostly for these unconventional missions. I always mod a few new items that make them a bit more immersive, and I wish I had the map making skills to submod some extra scenarios (like stopping an assassination attempt on a busy highway, or using jumpsuit camouflage to sneak into somewhere, or making my way across a minefield).

Welcome! And no worries, the concept definitely stays. Else it wouldn't be much of X-Files in the X-Com Files... :)

As for modding, if you want to give it a try - either for XCF or just X-Com in general - it's quite easy, as the game was made to make it as straightforward as possible. There are several OXC servers where you can get some help for starters, there's the Ruleset Reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) to give you all modifiable data, also I actually made this short manual (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7664.0.html) for making maps (it's fun  and reasonably easy).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on May 21, 2021, 08:12:58 pm
Random question: IIRC, the nations that betrayed humanity and left the XCOM Project were no longer targeted by Terror Attacks, right? Does that mean that if at one point all nations left said project, terror missions would be mostly gone? Haven't ever got to that point, so I dunno.
Does this mod include a special game over scene if such strange scenario happens?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 22, 2021, 11:36:46 am
Random question: IIRC, the nations that betrayed humanity and left the XCOM Project were no longer targeted by Terror Attacks, right? Does that mean that if at one point all nations left said project, terror missions would be mostly gone? Haven't ever got to that point, so I dunno.
Does this mod include a special game over scene if such strange scenario happens?

I don't think such a rule exists at all, but I am not 100% certain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on May 22, 2021, 05:15:33 pm
I don't think such a rule exists at all, but I am not 100% certain.

You mean nations that have abandoned the project not being targeted by aliens' terror attacks, OR getting a game over by losing all allied nations?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 23, 2021, 01:36:48 pm
You mean nations that have abandoned the project not being targeted by aliens' terror attacks, OR getting a game over by losing all allied nations?

The first. I know the second is not how it works.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Georgie122 on May 24, 2021, 07:39:00 pm
Heya! I'm a newbie, but loving X-comfiles sofar ^^.

I do have a question; how do you train your soldiers Psi-skill during battle? My soldiers don't seem to gain any psi skill points - They're currently at 70+/50 due to the psilabs, and I can mindcontrol Floaters and Mutons, but despite those succesful "captures" it doesn't seem to advance my psi skill.


Am I doing something wrong? What exactly gives psi-experience?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 24, 2021, 09:12:30 pm
50 is the cap for psi skill for human units (excluding certain commendations).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Georgie122 on May 24, 2021, 10:50:48 pm
Ah gotcha! I also wonder how you get the countries back you'd lost via a pact. I think I've destroyed the base there, is it RNG?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on May 24, 2021, 11:46:55 pm
You used to be able to but not anymore. Now they're gone for good, just like in vanilla.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: 8mono on May 25, 2021, 10:28:38 am
Heya! I'm a newbie, but loving X-comfiles sofar ^^.

I do have a question; how do you train your soldiers Psi-skill during battle? My soldiers don't seem to gain any psi skill points - They're currently at 70+/50 due to the psilabs, and I can mindcontrol Floaters and Mutons, but despite those succesful "captures" it doesn't seem to advance my psi skill.


Am I doing something wrong? What exactly gives psi-experience?

If you're really desperate and don't mind spoilers you can make it so the commendations are always visible in one of the game's settings files, either that or going into a "New Battle" and opening up the ufopeadia --> commendations, then looking at the ones that give Psi Skill/Strength

Im not sure how spoilerish this is but just to be sure there are at least two ways I've gotten them and thats through:
Puppetmaster/Puppeteer (I forget what its called) Commendation: You have to get kills through mind controlled enemies killing other enemies
Sorcerer Commendation: Getting kills with psi weapons directly like the Storm Rose or Dagon Staff/Heart Crusher Staff

I'm not entirely sure if the stunned enemies commendation also gives some sort of psi skill or just psi strength
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: spawi on May 29, 2021, 12:07:11 am
Playing XCF and loving it as always. Some inputs on balance from me:

- The Syndicate Monster Lab mission, for the frequency it appears, is a bit boring and unbalanced. Boring, because the base layout is always the same, not very interesting (primarily long tunnels), and the randomized caves end up mostly in dead ends without enemies. Unbalanced, because one can rack up 3 millions from the Monsters Inc. files, which is a lot of money given the mission difficulty, especially on repeated raids.

That mission would be excellent if it would have to be done only once, or the base was more randomized, and the items were worth less money.

I would suggest to make it stop appearing earlier. Not when the syndicate HQ is defeated, but when the most critical research from it is obtained. For reference, here is the mission randomization logic: https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/blob/7f3e1de7a6502ef24ddeabed5ea190eb56a7b3d5/Ruleset/missionScripts_XCOMFILES.rul#L7030-L7044 (https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/blob/7f3e1de7a6502ef24ddeabed5ea190eb56a7b3d5/Ruleset/missionScripts_XCOMFILES.rul#L7030-L7044)

- I had plenty of zombie infestations, but I never got one with even a single zombie infector. I had to get the zombie infector research from interrogating many syndicate scientists, primarily captured during the Syndicate Monster Lab missions. This research gates a lot of progress, including M.A.G.M.A. storyline, Zombie storyline and neural implant.

Perhaps (not sure) a good fix would be to increase the frequency of investations with infectors, at least compared to the basic infestations:
https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/blob/7f3e1de7a6502ef24ddeabed5ea190eb56a7b3d5/Ruleset/missionScripts_XCOMFILES.rul#L4827-L4870

- The Alien Alloy Welder is perhaps a bit too hard to get. I raided several UFOs already, including a very large one, and still no luck. At least I finally got the multitool. Huge amounts of research are gated because of that, and I am stuck on Heavy Titanium Suits. I think I might end up unlocking multiple tiers of research at the same time. I mean that by the time I will have the prerequisites for personal armor research, I will be already most way through to higher tiered armors and other items.

- I got Kitsune and Ravens way too early. Before the invasion started. This made everything before them obsolete, including Skyranger, Arrow, Interceptor, etc. I think Kitsune perhaps should come significantly later, around the tame of Skymarshall or later.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 29, 2021, 11:41:55 am
A couple good points.

I decreased the chances for subsequent Syndicate Monster Lab. Now it shouldn't appear remotely as often. (Perhaps it should only appear once, but I'd rather save some chances for multiple instances.)

Zombie Infectors are relatively common. Not finding some is a particular quirk of your campaign. Such things help make each playthrough different :)

The Welder may be a more serious problem. Not sure what to do about it yet, though. Just distribute more welders among alien crews?

As for your craft acquisition sequence: it sounds just crazy. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mrvex on May 30, 2021, 01:00:23 am
Playing XCF and loving it as always. Some inputs on balance from me:

I think I might end up unlocking multiple tiers of research at the same time. I mean that by the time I will have the prerequisites for personal armor research, I will be already most way through to higher tiered armors and other items.



That is the exact thing that always happens to me that by the time i unlock something, something just way superior can be researched right away and its all due to the RNG reward roullette of tech and cross dependencies and dependancy on end-tier laboratory which has its own set of specific requirements. Until the whole end game and tech access is reworked, RNG completely controls the flow of the campaign. Solarious is aware of that..

And it does hurt the game which otherwise has quite smooth tech and gear progression.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: spawi on May 30, 2021, 01:23:52 am
A couple good points.

I decreased the chances for subsequent Syndicate Monster Lab. Now it shouldn't appear remotely as often. (Perhaps it should only appear once, but I'd rather save some chances for multiple instances.)

Awesome! I think you can get the "Monsters Inc. Files" [1] only from that lab, so probably it should continue appearing until the player has researched it. So they don't get blocked if they sell all of them instead.

[1] https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_MONSTERS_INC

Zombie Infectors are relatively common. Not finding some is a particular quirk of your campaign. Such things help make each playthrough different :)


Yeah, I suspected that. I guess that's the reason why it can be obtained from the Syndicate scientist.


The Welder may be a more serious problem. Not sure what to do about it yet, though. Just distribute more welders among alien crews?

I think that would be a good start. Another idea I have is to provide some alternative source if the player is not getting it for a long time - perhaps some event if the player is late enough in the game and/or researched specific topics. Maybe - an event that has a chance of appearing once the player interrogated 3 alien engineers. And the chance increases the more engineers have been interrogated. Just an idea.


As for your craft acquisition sequence: it sounds just crazy. :D

I see that Kitsune research becomes available after Promotion III [2], which I understand is expected to be done by the time invasion starts, yes?

Maybe Kitsune should not be available until the player researches Skymarshall? Say, it cannot be repaired without this tech.

Ravens [3] primarily require alien alloys, which can be obtained if the player gets at least one UFO, e.g. in the Gertrude mission. (btw I know you recently made that mission harder to get, so that should help).

Basically: if I get Promo III by invasion start and at least one UFO, I am set to have Kitsune and Ravens, making all the previous crafts obsolete.

[2] https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_LOST_ALIEN_SHIP_DATA
[3] https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_RAVEN
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on May 30, 2021, 05:05:03 pm
I think that would be a good start. Another idea I have is to provide some alternative source if the player is not getting it for a long time - perhaps some event if the player is late enough in the game and/or researched specific topics. Maybe - an event that has a chance of appearing once the player interrogated 3 alien engineers. And the chance increases the more engineers have been interrogated. Just an idea.

Not possible given current mechanics afaik. Seeing how engineers are the ones "using" multitools&welders, why not add them as interrogation topics instead if the prerequisites have been met? Maybe also to David Vincent?


Maybe Kitsune should not be available until the player researches Skymarshall? Say, it cannot be repaired without this tech.

I see multiple issues with this, one being that the Kitsune is stated to be notably less advanced than normal alien craft and easily repairable. It's also a one-off craft (unlike the Raven), so I don't see this as a balancing issue. At that point I (and probably the majority of players) have multiple bases and other landing craft, on top of that it is also limited to "regular" mission sites (unlike the Dragonfly for example). Meaning it does not, in fact, make "all previous crafts" obsolete.

 Yes, it has less trade-offs than other craft (at that point in the game), but then again it is supposed to be a superior and unique/special craft. It also outclassed by later "mass production" craft in both roles (Skymarshall has a larger range&capacity, Raven is faster&more resistant).

Making it available after the Skymarshall (and probably the Raven as well, given the current research tree) instead makes it obsolete almost by default. It is fine where it is as far as availability is concerned, but it might need some tweaking regarding its parameters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on May 31, 2021, 12:48:51 pm
I updated the game mid-campaign, but I see I'm missing some things, like the Stun Spear, which should be available since I researched the Electric Prod before the update, but the Spear is nowhere to be seen. Do I have to mess around with my saves to add said spear? How would I do that exactly?

Just to know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2021, 01:09:12 pm
I updated the game mid-campaign, but I see I'm missing some things, like the Stun Spear, which should be available since I researched the Electric Prod before the update, but the Spear is nowhere to be seen. Do I have to mess around with my saves to add said spear? How would I do that exactly?

Check again - you need a working Stun Spear first. It's an artifact.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: HT on June 01, 2021, 03:28:08 pm
Check again - you need a working Stun Spear first. It's an artifact.
Oh, so enemies use it? Which faction does use such weapon? Can you give me a spoiler? Just to know if they do employ it, or whose faction is supposed to do so in case it doesn't work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on June 01, 2021, 04:29:36 pm
Not even a faction, only one enemy uses it and they show up in one specific mission:
Dr Alpha of Syndicate
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mathel on June 02, 2021, 07:14:30 pm
So I did Pharaoh's tomb today. It was a slog. 8 allies survived, 92 corpses were recovered, I forgot how many live hostiles were recovered, and I know some corpses got blown up.
In total, it must have been about 110 to 120 AI units.

Also, it would have been nice to have some knowledge that I should stockpile Zombie Parasites before I ended zombie missions. How am I going to get them for Proteanism now? I had a similar issue with Quillbow and Chupacabra serum, but I assume that is just because I upgraded late in the campaign.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Fomka on June 03, 2021, 01:34:23 am
My 5 cents about Zombie parazites' stockpiling. So, I'm a commander of secret force that is defending the planet from exotic threats. That force, Paranormal Activity Unit, is capturing dangerous zombie parazites that fill PAU stores. The dillema arises: to sell the parazites or not to sell (and build more stores). But there is no option of selling, because the planet is safer with the parazites not circulating on the dark/grey market.

In my game I stockpiled parazites and ammo for plasma weapons for the sake of Earth's safety. Haven't get Protean tech yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Mathel on June 03, 2021, 03:47:02 pm
That's a good point actually. But if I was not going to sell live zombies and parasites, I would have at least made sure to get as few of them as possible by double-tapping downed zombies more. So I would have had some parasites, but still not many.

It might be a good idea to add to Meet the Coven something in the lines of:
"For punishing the Pharaoh, we offer a way to gain immortality by fusing oneself with an Essentor."

It would not be obvious, but at least there would be some hint that you should not destroy all parasites you find.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: Marrik on June 09, 2021, 02:44:51 am
Is 1.8b save compatible with 1.8?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: MemoryTAS on June 10, 2021, 05:46:19 pm
Yes
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: armadilloTank on June 19, 2021, 05:48:47 am
That is the exact thing that always happens to me that by the time i unlock something, something just way superior can be researched right away and its all due to the RNG reward roullette of tech and cross dependencies and dependancy on end-tier laboratory which has its own set of specific requirements. Until the whole end game and tech access is reworked, RNG completely controls the flow of the campaign. Solarious is aware of that..

And it does hurt the game which otherwise has quite smooth tech and gear progression.

Welders not dropping are why I stopped my first run.

Does this have an designed for difficulty level? Like in Xpiratez where playing on super human actually makes it easier?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: krautbernd on June 19, 2021, 10:02:00 am
Does this have an designed for difficulty level? Like in Xpiratez where playing on super human actually makes it easier?

See here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,9568.msg139480.html#msg139480), no need to ask the same question twice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
Post by: RolandVasko on June 21, 2021, 10:46:52 pm
btw. just i got 1idea for title of next XCF´ update :

*I Want to Believe"
;D)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 24, 2021, 08:05:47 pm
Version 1.9 has been released!

- New advanced agent type: Olympian.
- New armor: Night-Ops Suit (graphics by Brain_322).
- New weapons: Winchester Model 1901, Tritanium Kukri (graphics for both by Brain_322), Sporting Bow, Hatchet (sprites for both donated by Dioxine), Switchblade.
- New item: Survival Notes.
- New units: MiB Shock Trooper, Betarian (graphics for both by Brain_322), Male Detective (graphics mostly by Dioxine), HSD Marine, Male Survivalist.
- New mission: Alien Orbital Station.
- New facility: Plasma Drone Bay (graphics for robotic units by Brain_322).
- 11 new events (by justaround).
- 8 new faces (collab with Dioxine and Brain_322).
- New lore articles (thanks Rellestys for the "Missions and Research" text).
- Cars and radar craft are undetectable to aliens.
- Radar craft can auto-patrol.
- Added ambient sounds to some environments (jungle, rural, forest and winter maps).
- Most enemies can kneel and/or run (requires OXCE 7.0.11 or later).
- Moon arc needs Alien Brain Remains instead of Ethereal Commander.
- New graphics for Sectopod Minigun, Dart Rifle and Synthmuscles (all by Brain_322).
- Proper Gilldog autopsy pic (by Grouse and Brain_322).
- Nitro Express has a better damage roll profile.
- USP Match is a little stronger.
- OICW grenades are less accurate.
- Slightly better aimed shots on BlackOps Spypistol.
- Electric Prod can be used underwater and in space.
- Recoilless Gun is now a revived weeapon.
- New Council-related researches.
- Message from M.A.G.M.A. no. 001 is easier to get.
- Grav module can be recovered from Waspites.
- Alien Colonies can now expand into new bases.
- Removed startResearch script.
- Marine Base Defense tweaks.
- Syndicate Monster Lab appears less frequently after the first time.
- Mummy Abode appears more easily the first time.
- Humvee allowed on beach missions.
- Tweaked some MiB stats.
- Enforcer requires 1 Alenium Shard.
- Aqua-Plastic Suits recover as Aqua-Plastics.
- Tweaked some armor resistances.
- Some live creatures can be found during land surveys.
- Zephyr Serum is more expensive.
- Night Owl now gives Sanity too.
- Lighter GMGEO5 track (by Brain_322).
- Better Cyberweb Roboturret and Large Drone Examination Ufopedia pictures (both by Brain_322).
- Better Alien Drone inventory picture (by Brain_322).
- Cleaner Aqua-Plastic Suit bigob.
- Osiron Goon bigob and floorob better matching the sprite.
- Improved X-Com base routes.
- Blocked some more articles on Commendation from appearing at game start.
- Improved Urban Low map generation.
- Corporate warehouse has windows.
- Updated enforced and recommended options.
- Fixed dog zombification on some units.
- Fixed mismatched Rocket Launcher ammo on some MiBs.
- Fixed enemy robots recovery (stores are robot prisons now).
- Alien Tunnels fixes (by Dioxine).
- Fixed Megascorpion sprite directions.
- Fixed position of some clips (by Brain_322).
- Fixed Jump Armor sprite (thanks The Martian).
- Fixed Shady Tavern briefing.
- Fixed Tijuana location.
- Fixed UAC dimensional portal ramps.
- Fixed the Cruiser article.
- Minor fixes.

WARNING: kneeling and running enemies is a new OXCE feature, not yet released. If you want to use it before a new OXCE release happens, you need to download the current build from https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended - do it at your own risk. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Mathel on June 25, 2021, 09:51:17 am
Hooray, a new version.

Once I am finished with current mission, I will install.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Mrvex on June 25, 2021, 07:20:08 pm
Kneeling and running enemies...

That actually makes me want to ask a question, but is it possible to know when enemy walks and when he runs (So its possible to estimate his energy and possible TU reserves for reactions ?) ? When i initially started using the run ability it i was disapointed that the soldier has copy and paste animations of walking and running and i had trouble finding out if i am actually running or not.

Also who are Olympians ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: the nomad on June 26, 2021, 03:08:23 am
Wow, the new additions sound awesome!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Mathel on June 27, 2021, 12:01:01 pm
Also who are Olympians ?
In mythology, greek gods.
In RL, someone competing in the Olympics.
In XCF, soldiers, whose Stat Cap for Psi Skill is 100, rather than 50. Their Psi defence counts Psi Skill half as much as regular soldier's Psi defence though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: the nomad on July 05, 2021, 03:24:06 am
It's been some time since I last played this mod, and can't see it in changelogs but I see that zombies now lunge at you the moment they see you regardless of distance. The whole mission experience changed for the better and it now feels like a proper zombie battle, them swarming and all. Wanted to give feedback that it was an amazing addition.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 05, 2021, 12:48:21 pm
It's been some time since I last played this mod, and can't see it in changelogs but I see that zombies now lunge at you the moment they see you regardless of distance. The whole mission experience changed for the better and it now feels like a proper zombie battle, them swarming and all. Wanted to give feedback that it was an amazing addition.

Yes, agreed! It works much better now.

I haven't added it in the changelog, because it's an OXCE update, not on the mod side.

EDIT:

Version 1.9.1 has been released.

1.9.1:
- New M.A.G.M.A. logo (by Brain_322).
- New Ammo Box graphics (by Brain_322).
- Zephyr Serum cannot be bought, but can be made from Chryssalids.
- Trading with The Wizkids mission uses Osiron outfits.
- Live Bombardier Beetles can be processed into napalm grenades.
- Fixed a critical bug with Tritanium Vest for the F0 face.
- Hatchet purchase fix.
- Tweaks to the Rice Farm terrain (by Dioxine).
- Some fixes and tweaks to the UAC terrain.
- Minor fixes.

As you can see, it's mostly a fix release, but there's some useful stuff as well. And eye candy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Hadriex on July 12, 2021, 12:41:43 am
The idea of running enemies terrifies me. So many enemies with melee weapons, and they all just got substantially more dangerous.

Kneeling is bad news too.

Sometimes it's the small things...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: HT on July 12, 2021, 11:14:02 am
Did some enemies get a sprite update to show when they're kneeling? Just to know. Your soldiers do, even if it's barely perceptible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 16, 2021, 09:55:44 am
Are you planning any major changes for the mid and late stages of the game, when the war will go mostly with aliens?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 17, 2021, 01:30:09 pm
Did some enemies get a sprite update to show when they're kneeling? Just to know. Your soldiers do, even if it's barely perceptible.

Yes of course, they all visibly kneel. (Took me a whole day to draw the sprites. ;) )

Are you planning any major changes for the mid and late stages of the game, when the war will go mostly with aliens?

Oh yes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on July 31, 2021, 07:29:10 pm
Scorch, a year ago I wrote to you about adding a special suit for a sniper to the game,which gives excellent camouflage, but very much cuts mobility. Then you said that you would think about it,so what do you say about it ? Also, a huge request, add a tracked version of a tritanium tank to the game,it's just that the hovertank looks flawed and funny and not at all brutal.  And also, regarding UAC. If we find a BFG, can we add Praetorian Armor to the game in addition to this ? Something like " A mysterious set of armor created from a material unknown to science. We fired at it with all sorts of weapons,but the hits do not even leave a scratch on it. During the test, the agent who dressed him entered a state of extreme aggression and a thirst for murder, gaining superhuman strength, reaction and endurance. The influence of the suit greatly affects the agent's morale, so he can not withstand its impact for a long time,causing a nervous breakdown, but it is noticed that murders bring an inexplicable sense of satisfaction. A strange mark is drawn on the helmet, there are no similar ones in human history. The presence of demons nearby causes its bright red glow. Interestingly, if demons see this mark, it causes them an uncontrollable attack of the strongest horror. The technologies of this suit are beyond our understanding,we are not able to create even something similar."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on July 31, 2021, 08:40:58 pm
Scorch,Also, I would like to ask you to fix the EXALT Bouncers, namely their night vision. It is too good, although this is not supported by anything,because they are dressed in a business suit with a hat,they do not have a night vision device. It is more logical to give such a night vision to the Liquidators of EXALT, who are dressed as special forces. Also, please add fragmentation grenades to the game.In the game we have a high-explosive grenade(offensive( RGD-5,M61)),but there are no defensive(F-1). It would deal cutting damage and cover a larger radius, but it would cause extremely little damage to objects.You can say that there is a tritanium grenade, but it sets fire to the surface and is already an alien technology,but what about our human capabilities ? We can take a look at X-COM 2012 , there are two types of grenades that give different tactical capabilities. You will say, why is this necessary ? Well, here's the situation for you - your squad has taken up defense in the house, and the enemy has already come close to the walls. If we throw an ordinary grenade at them,we will break the wall,that is,our potential shelter,after which we will be shot like ducks, but if we throw a fragmentation one, then the enemy will kill and the wall will be whole, allowing us to continue firing from cover. The same applies to alien ships,when the enemy is in a room with energy cells, and you don't want to break them at all,a fragmentation grenade comes to our aid. Appearance ? In X-piratez there is a green color option.Since you are in contact with the author of this mod ,this will not be a problem(we recall the sawn-off shot taken from there). Also, please add lethal gas grenades.There is no need to go far for examples,the M7A3 grenade is in service with the USA.What for? The answer to this question will arise when you meet with the super soldiers of the syndicate or with the special forces of the red dawn, whom you pick one by one ,the whole team, to no avail with your rifle, and they only laugh in response, calling you clowns. Also, I would like to ask you to rebalance the RPG-7, namely its receipt. You get it after 3 boosts, but you also get a launcher. You look at the RPG and the launcher and think what to take.You see the damage of the launcher and all questions disappear. Yes, the launcher does not have such a penetration of armor as an RPG,but it is needed only for MIB tanks, nowhere else, in other cases it is much worse.And I am now talking about the 3rd increase,this is most likely the end of 1998-the beginning of 99, when the invasion is already beginning. Sectoids with a chance of 30-45 percent will withstand an RPG shot, but a heavy rocket from the launcher does not leave them a chance,which means that the player will use the launcher to avoid unnecessary risk,and the RPG will lie and be covered with dust.The idea of the weapon itself is very interesting,a light rocket launcher that causes less damage than a launcher, a more compact ammunition, allowing you to have 7 shots ,not 4, less TU for shooting and reloading, allowing you to charge and shoot in one turn. I really like how the RPG is implemented in X-piratez.A wide variety of missiles allows it to be relevant at all stages of the game.What do I suggest:1-The player gets an RPG after 2 upgrades, but only with a high-explosive missile,getting an anti-tank one on 3 upgrades.This will give the player a good explosive weapon that will help in the fight against the impenetrable special forces of the red dawn and with the super soldiers of the syndicate,as well as give the opportunity to destroy objects at an acceptable level.A grenade launcher? This is rather an early version of the mortar, no more.It is good because it shoots with a canopy, allowing you to attack enemies behind obstacles, but not break them.It is not necessary to compare it with rocket launchers,these are different types of weapons.2-Add thermobaric,tritanium and plasma rockets for RPG to the game. A tritanium rocket will have an even greater armor penetration than an anti-tank one,but the explosion radius will be extremely small(1 cell),a thermobaric rocket is incendiary, but the fire damage is significant,I will not talk about a plasma rocket,we all already know what plasma is and how it hurts.This will allow you to update it at all stages of the game.The player will have a choice-a light mobile rocket launcher with medium damage or a heavy launcher with colossal destructive power and the ability to shoot guided missiles,but it is heavy and slow.I think this will add a choice for the player in tactical terms, and when a player has a choice,it is extremely good.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on July 31, 2021, 10:37:14 pm
...EXALT Bouncers, namely their night vision. It is too good...
An extra two tiles over most other humans. :-\ I suspect you're running into the fact that Enforcers are snipers (and every EXALT enemy is a spotter). This is a known peculiarity of current sniper-spotter mechanics. I complained (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg137014.html#msg137014) about it once, but Solarius seems content with this. His mod, his rules.

...if we throw a fragmentation one, then the enemy will kill and the wall will be whole...
From a realism POV, fragmentation grenades aren't particularly good at instantly killing people, especially people with a modicum of armor. Grenade fragments and shrapnel were what (somewhat) modern helmets and body armor were originally meant to be used against.

lethal gas grenades ... M7A3 grenade
That's a tear gas grenade, though?



Some fun, too. Chupacabra Neighbourhood Watch? ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on August 01, 2021, 04:09:36 am
juku121, about the spotter. I have been playing this mod for 3 years, all the mechanics are familiar to me. It is the EXALT Bouncers who have too good night vision.I also thought that I was being discovered by ordinary EXALT soldiers,but this is not the case. This is quietly checked at night, especially in the desert. You get out of the ship, throw out the lights and watch. The following happens: ordinary fighters try to approach you and find out,they do not fire,because they do not "see" you,you are in the dark,you are hidden from them,but the Bouncers are already firing at you, although no one sees you. I was wondering,if I throw a smoke grenade, will they stop firing at me? Nothing like that, these individuals shoot through the smoke as if it does not exist. You can repeat this situation and you will see everything. In general, in the game 2 cults that fight well at night are Red Dawn, with their mind-blowing disguise and infrared night vision, which allows them to fight at night as during the day, without noticing the smoke, and the cult of Dagon, who just see well at night,but the smoke affects them. This seems to push the player to the fact that it is necessary to fight with EXALT and Black Lotus at night,getting a tactical advantage,and with Red Dawn and Dagon-during the day,so as not to be vulnerable at night. But Bouncers break this system. About the M7A3 grenade. If you read about these grenades, you will find out that there are 3 types of these grenades-M7A1,M7A2 and M7A3. A1 and A2 use CN gas,which paralyzes,and A3 uses CS gas,which causes burns on the body, paralysis of the heart,lungs. The lethal dose of CS is 1 minute of being in a gas cloud. I think that paralysis of the heart is very lethal,and 1 minute is very little. Therefore, the M7A3 can be fairly added as a gas weapon(thanks to USA for this).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on August 01, 2021, 04:44:34 am
juku121, I agree with you that a bulletproof vest and a helmet can protect against grenade fragments, but it depends on what distance.The distance of destruction by F-1 grenade fragments is 200 meters. At a distance of 5 meters, the target is completely hit by shrapnel, which means that even if the bulletproof vest and helmet are not pierced(a miracle will happen), your arms,legs and head will be torn (the front part).I think you overestimate the protective properties of a bulletproof vest and a helmet, modern versions are mainly made to protect against accidental fragments, but not from the explosion of a grenade nearby.I agree that a person may not immediately die from injuries,but what they will be ! In a couple of minutes, the target will die from bleeding from numerous wounds. By the way, this can be implemented in the game. As far as I remember, this is affected by the"wound multiplier" parameter. If it is increased to the desired amount, then we will get 6 fatal wounds per turn, or 8, there is already how to configure it.Therefore, a fragmentation grenade is a terrible and effective weapon.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 01, 2021, 06:05:47 am
It is the EXALT Bouncers who have too good night vision.
11 tiles, your guys and most anyone else human has 9. Night ops gear and Liquidators have 12. This is not the main cause of all this.

I also thought that I was being discovered by ordinary EXALT soldiers,but this is not the case.
The other thing that makes you 'spotted' is hitting an enemy. Yes, snipers don't need a spotter to see you or even to exist. :( Yes, it's weird and unintuitive. No, I don't think it's going to change, Solarius and ohartenstein, the person responsible for the sniper-spotter code, have made that clear.

...if I throw a smoke grenade, will they stop firing at me?
Smoke is semi-useless now. On top of all the enemies with infravision, choke damage from camping inside for too long, and gating until Promo I, snipers don't care. You get the LoS-less accuracy penalty, but with the amount of fire usually headed your way, it's either hard cover, even harder armour or pain. :(

In general, in the game 2 cults that fight well at night are Red Dawn, with their mind-blowing disguise and infrared night vision...
Not really. They're much worse during the day. The Red Ops and Pioneers have 2 tiles of extra camo at night and essentially +10 tiles during daytime. And Red Dawn has a grand total of zero units with infravision. But they're all snipers. Yes, even the gopniks.

...the cult of Dagon, who just see well at night,but the smoke affects them.
Dagonites are probably worse to fight in darkness, except that their weaponry is somewhat weaker. Their rank-and-file doesn't really see much better at night (+1 tile for Disciples and Priests), but higher ranks do: Chosen and Sorcerers +6 , Gilldogs +7 and the neo-Gillmen +11. They are not all snipers, though, which is why you think smoke 'affects them'. Smoke affects both Red Dawn and the moisties equally, it's just that most of the latter aren't snipers and can't take a shot anyway.

This seems to push the player to the fact that it is necessary to fight with EXALT and Black Lotus at night,getting a tactical advantage...
The night vision difference between BL and Dagonites isn't so big that throwing flares like candy wouldn't negate that. If throwing ranges were somewhat realistic, and you had to wait for grenade launcher or mortar illumination rounds, you might have a point...

I usually just find the hassle of managing light sources and remembering who is a sniper and who isn't too much trouble. So daytime, hard cover and overwhelming long-range firepower are my go-to choice.

A1 and A2 use CN gas,which paralyzes,and A3 uses CS gas,which causes burns on the body, paralysis of the heart,lungs.
I don't know where you're getting this info from. M7A1 is CN, an older and less useful alternative to CS (because it has more toxic long-term effects and less immediate ones, not so good if you want the rioters 'down now!' and back to being productive citizens afterwards). Both M7A2 and M7A3 are CS. Neither agent causes immediate paralysis or death, unless you manage to stick the recipient into an enclosed space room and flood it with gas, or hit them pretty much directly with the grenade.

The lethal dose of CS is 1 minute of being in a gas cloud.
So all the rioters who've been in a tear gas cloud are dead now? :o The best I can see is that they've killed some animals with high concentrations, a few prisoners with health issues and long-term exposure, and people in prison vans who pretty much took a direct hit. And it took at least 5-10 minites of inhalation even for rats and guinea pigs. Non-inhalation can be faster, but that's not a gas grenade any more, then.

I think that paralysis of the heart is very lethal...
Source for this one-minute paralysis thing? Sarin is the agent that causes muscle paralysis and fast suffocation.

Therefore, the M7A3 can be fairly added as a gas weapon(thanks to USA for this).
A riot grenade is designed to be non-lethal. While CS/CN may be less 'non-lethal' than advertised, they're still something that's actually seeing constant use, the military trains people using CS, and I'm not aware of great numbers of rioters or ABC trainees dying on the spot.

The distance of destruction by F-1 grenade fragments is 200 meters.
That's the distance where you might be hit by a stray piece of shrapnel. It's not particularly likely, and if you are the one with the grenade, relying on this number is not a particularly bright idea.

At a distance of 5 meters, the target is completely hit by shrapnel, which means that even if the bulletproof vest and helmet are not pierced(a miracle will happen)
Not completely, since the grenade has to spew shrapnel in a sphere, and at five meters, your part of that sphere is not that big. But, yes, five meters is more or less the "get dead" radius for most frag grenades. The vest and helmet will probably be stopping a lot of it, maybe even all that's headed their way. But they don't cover many of the sensitive bits like arms, face or throat.

I think you overestimate the protective properties of a bulletproof vest and a helmet, modern versions are mainly made to protect against accidental fragments, but not from the explosion of a grenade nearby.
Modern body armor is increasingly made to stop small-arms fire. Long-range fragments, too, of course.

But, yes, close-range frag grenades are deadly. Just not a guarantee that everyone in armor is dead or incapacitated immediately afterwards.

I agree that a person may not immediately die from injuries,but what they will be ! In a couple of minutes, the target will die from bleeding from numerous wounds. By the way, this can be implemented in the game.
Indeed, that's a good and pretty 'realistic' idea, as far as game mechanics go.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on August 01, 2021, 07:03:48 am
Juku121, it turns out interesting. Do these "snipers" initially see your fighters or after the soldier has fired a shot? Or are they just shooting at the place where they were shooting from? For some reason, I always thought that the Red Dawn has infrared vision. If everything is as you say,then my attempt to widely use smoke grenades for the first time failed.They do not make sense,the aliens ignore them(this is normal), dangerous opponents from among humans, too. Use the smoke against ordinary enemies ? It's easier to shoot them. Usually you throw a smoke grenade so that elite opponents don't shoot at you,with their excellent accuracy. About M7A3. I found information about the grenade and gas on the Internet. I don't know about you,but the Russian Internet reports exactly this. Regarding fragmentation grenades. I don't know why the mechanics with a lot of bleeding are not widely used,although it is really very realistic. If we are talking about damage to armored targets in the game, then you can add a tritanium fragmentation grenade-the metal is stronger,the fragments are larger, the penetration is an order of magnitude higher. Although there is a simple tritanium grenade, but its arson of the surface, which is not needed everywhere, makes it a separate type of grenade. You give priority to daylight, but I'm already bored with this. I want to play "special forces". Only at night you don't get shot at from all over the map by the whole crowd. Only at night, snipers can become snipers(well, by 50%), when they are not under a hail of bullets, but sit somewhere far away in the dark,when they are not seen through the entire map(after all,they have not yet added anything with good camouflage(the player does not have a very interesting tactical opportunity), although I asked,a very long time ago, to add a Russian camouflage suit "Kikimora". Only at night you CAN take cover in the first turn without collecting shots from all the enemies on the map(if you are lucky and there is not a crowd of gopnik waiting for you to come around the corner near your ship). In this case, the game becomes much more interesting. Not the standard sitting in the ship until victory, because if you decide to go out, then gifts will immediately arrive, but an interesting tactical deployment, a game from houses,stones, etc. It's really interesting and pleasant. I immediately remember XCOM 2012 , I really like city battles,shootouts at close distances.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 01, 2021, 01:17:01 pm
Do these "snipers" initially see your fighters or after the soldier has fired a shot?
After being hit, so there's some wiggle room.

If everything is as you say,then my attempt to widely use smoke grenades for the first time failed.
Yeah, so did mine. :( I changed the LoS mechanics after that, so only sniper rifles get the 50% reduction, and other weapons have more, 67%+ generally, and reduced 'sniper' values for cultists across the board. They still snipe, but not every single one of them. Not convinced that's a good fix, but, well, the whole sniper-spotter mechanic is really not something every enemy ought to have.

I found information about the grenade and gas on the Internet.
I did as well. Every source, starting with the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_hand_grenades#M6/A1,_M7/A1/A2/A3_and_M54), stated that M7A2 was CS.

You give priority to daylight, but I'm already bored with this. I want to play "special forces".
That's fine. I'm more interested in seeing the stuff in the mod, since I sort of dislike the tactical balance and don't really have the time to overhaul it anytime soon. And I can't see stuff at night. :P

Only at night, snipers can become snipers(well, by 50%), when they are not under a hail of bullets, but sit somewhere far away in the dark,when they are not seen through the entire map...
Until they get their first hit/kill, and everyone suddenly knows exactly where they are. :(

they have not yet added anything with good camouflage
Night ops armor, jumpsuits and Synthsuits give you parity with Red Dawn. Of course, only Synthsuits have actually useful armour values. I once had a mod with black ninja suits that halved night vision ranges or worse, and 'invisible' stealthsuits which replicated what BL Ninjas do, but much better. Didn't protect you from explosives and psi-vision, but bullets, lasers and even plasma were pretty useless.

Only at night you CAN take cover in the first turn without collecting shots from all the enemies on the map(if you are lucky and there is not a crowd of gopnik waiting for you to come around the corner near your ship).
I just run behind the car/van/chopper like a chicken. :) Doesn't work out all the time. :'( That's where smoke is actually useful, denying LoS and thus reactions. Anyway, there's a mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.0.html) for the first turn issue.

Not the standard sitting in the ship until victory
Yeah, the game really shines when you have a reason not to turtle. Sanity sort of tries to combat this, as do dead civilians and MiB in those farmer missions. Environmental damage, too, but that's not a widespread thing in this mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on August 03, 2021, 09:45:56 pm
Bro fuck Osiron in their well-dressed asses. Their missions are so valuable, but it feels worthless bringing anything above rookie to fight them when you got bastards with RPGs willing to frag themselves in melee range. That said, 10+ Osiron crates > a dragonfly full of rookies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: anothrgamer1234 on August 05, 2021, 09:09:42 pm
Question: is the new stuff talking about the Illuminati and the Majestic 12 a hint we'll be fighting them at some point? I can imagine that doing so might have undesirable effects on your score given their influence over the Council...unless you can spin it as exposing their crimes to the world or establishing X-COM as a fully independent faction or something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Bonakva on August 06, 2021, 10:07:30 am
Acid Bolt conceived as a grenade?
I think we should add a "grenade" tag to it. To make it easier to find when rigging a ship
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 07, 2021, 07:57:31 pm
Maybe these are intended, but the drone fire extinguisher is different from the regular one (produces smoke and not water), the smoke projector is weaker than a smoke grenade, and the bioelectric taser batteries are a really raw deal (three +25% effect shots per Muckstar corpse, which don't exactly grow on trees).

Edit: Wonder what these fellows are up to that requires them to land in the middle of nowhere, sneak into a barn attic and hold conference there? They even have a lookout by the stairs! ;D

They were all soldiers, too... Worktoids' revolution? :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Bonakva on August 12, 2021, 12:09:01 pm
Guys, how many soldiers on average do you have at your bases?

The personal lights which are turned on by the "L" key de-mask the units during the night?

How far can soldiers see (how many cells) during daylight hours?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 12, 2021, 09:26:48 pm
Guys, how many soldiers on average do you have at your bases?
I've never gotten very far in the game, but about 20 humans/hybrids + small numbers of animals/AIs. Maybe ~10+auxiliaries/tanks if it's just a garrison. I usually aim to fill the transports that operate out of that base, plus a little extra and auxiliaries on top of that.

The personal lights which are turned on by the "L" key de-mask the units during the night?
Yes. I don't know the exact mechanics behind it, but it basically makes your units into self-propelled flares. Note that XCF sets most personal lights very low, so the actual effect is either tiny or even nonexistent. Playing with flares and flashlights is more likely to give you away.

How far can soldiers see (how many cells) during daylight hours?
40 tiles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Bonakva on August 13, 2021, 01:16:05 am
I've never gotten very far in the game, but about 20 humans/hybrids + small numbers of animals/AIs. Maybe ~10+auxiliaries/tanks if it's just a garrison. I usually aim to fill the transports that operate out of that base, plus a little extra and auxiliaries on top of that.
20 people with a constant rotation of sick and sanity? Is that enough for you? I have a minimum of 40 men for strike bases
Imperial Guard style


There is an option to turn off the default lights. I don't like the fact that in the first turn my lemmings immediately with personal lights on. It's kind of silly...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 13, 2021, 07:16:08 am
20 people with a constant rotation of sick and sanity? Is that enough for you?
As I said, I've not made it far enough for sanity-inducing missions to be common. And honestly, I'm cheating a lot, since I largely want to familiarise myself with the mod, not really play it, because I disagree with a lot with Solarius's design and lore decisions. Playing a mission/map once or twice to see how it works is fine, legitimately going through the 20th mission with 30+ beetles, or zombies, or 40+ Red Dawn, or naked infiltration is insane.

Edit: Maybe there should be an insanity meter for players? :P

There is an option to turn off the default lights.
There is? I only know of the L hotkey, they still start out glowy.

my lemmings
Oh, you play with these guys? ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Leprechaun on August 13, 2021, 05:41:01 pm
I'm with Juku121 on this. There's a youtube video where the commetator rhapsodises on how brutal the game is, and that having faceless people dying constantly is a feature of the game. I am a soldier and any commander who treated me like that would have to grow eyes in the back of his head.

I also do a certain amount of editing, buffing up the initial collection of soldiers so it's more like an RPG [i.e. most of the initial set survive for the final mission], but pretty much allowing new recruits to go unbuffed. (I call mine Red Shirts, like Star Trek's cannon fodder, instead of Lemmings.) However I do adjust the character generation to not allow cowards (below 30 bravery) or wimps (below 32 strength) on my teams.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 13, 2021, 09:52:31 pm
Note that I'm not actually criticising 30+ beetles, etc, in and of itself, even if others justifiably might. Usually, I'm very much the kind of player that likes punishing odds to puzzle myself out of, even repeatedly. I've played a humongous amount of (modded) Xenonauts, where the missions are all very much alike and the terrain and objectives are miles less varied than in OpenXcom. I get mental fatigue after a while, but nowhere as fast as in XCF.

I'm not 100% sure why that is, but I suspect it's the unreliability and lack of strong upgrades/options. Vanilla X-Com and Xeno give you tools that do meaningfully different things - or are just plain better - at a reasonable pace. Vanilla doesn't do it a lot, but it's a very short game in comparison.

Here, the 0-200% damage model, smaller upgrade increments and generally higher enemy stats mean every gun is unreliable, even when I move to 2d100. (I don't exactly know why the latter still feels so unreliable. Possibly self-delusion. :-[ ) There are quite a few maps that are just crowded with enemies. Concealment is an illusion due to omnipresent snipers. Melee is a game of death tag (everyone is a Chryssalid now :o). A large part of stat development is gated behind grinding a zillion commendations, and combat is lethal, so you can lose a huge time investment just like that. You can carry little gear on any one person. There's a lot of situational weaponry that isn't all that different, especially since any shot can become a graze and overkill is actually detrimental. You're stuck with relatively same-y stuff for months at a time.

None of it is a deal-killer on its own, but the sum total, especially after I've played the mod a few times, is that I'm asking myself "Is it really worth my time to play this? Or do I cheat and spend that extra time on my own projects?".

Basically, it looks very much like Phoenix Point's equipment sidegrades/tech grass on a larger scale. So Solarius is in good company, design-wise. ;D

Edit: I guess some of this fatigue is kinda unavoidable in a megamod. I recall playing the Urban Chaos mod for JA2 years ago, going through several cities of deadly close combat with largely scavenged weaponry, and then asking myself: "Does it feel like work? Why am I playing this, then?" And I very much like JA2. It's certainly the superior tactical game when compared to any incarnation of X-Com. So there's a 'too much of a good thing' vibe, too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 20, 2021, 05:01:43 pm
Scorch, a year ago I wrote to you about adding a special suit for a sniper to the game,which gives excellent camouflage, but very much cuts mobility. Then you said that you would think about it,so what do you say about it ?

I haven't made this specifically, but I've added several new outfits since then, including the recent NightOps. None of them has objectively better camo than the Jumpsuit, since I am really worried it'd make the AI unfairly clueless, but hopefully you'll find something to your liking.

Also, a huge request, add a tracked version of a tritanium tank to the game,it's just that the hovertank looks flawed and funny and not at all brutal.

Well, now all tanks are tritanium tanks... :)

And also, regarding UAC. If we find a BFG, can we add Praetorian Armor to the game in addition to this ? Something like " A mysterious set of armor created from a material unknown to science. We fired at it with all sorts of weapons,but the hits do not even leave a scratch on it. During the test, the agent who dressed him entered a state of extreme aggression and a thirst for murder, gaining superhuman strength, reaction and endurance. The influence of the suit greatly affects the agent's morale, so he can not withstand its impact for a long time,causing a nervous breakdown, but it is noticed that murders bring an inexplicable sense of satisfaction. A strange mark is drawn on the helmet, there are no similar ones in human history. The presence of demons nearby causes its bright red glow. Interestingly, if demons see this mark, it causes them an uncontrollable attack of the strongest horror. The technologies of this suit are beyond our understanding,we are not able to create even something similar."

Possibly, although it sounds like a UAC outfit, not necessarily appropriate to X-Com. Regardless, I am planning some notable changes to the UAC arc, but it's too early to think about such particular matters.

Out of curiousity, I've never heard of this suit. Is it from some new Doom? (Last one I played was Doom II, lel)

Scorch,Also, I would like to ask you to fix the EXALT Bouncers, namely their night vision.

Sorry, EXALT who???
I really have no idea who you're talking about. I can't recall adding any bouncers...

Also, please add fragmentation grenades to the game.In the game we have a high-explosive grenade(offensive( RGD-5,M61)),but there are no defensive(F-1). It would deal cutting damage and cover a larger radius, but it would cause extremely little damage to objects.You can say that there is a tritanium grenade, but it sets fire to the surface and is already an alien technology,but what about our human capabilities ? We can take a look at X-COM 2012 , there are two types of grenades that give different tactical capabilities. You will say, why is this necessary ? Well, here's the situation for you - your squad has taken up defense in the house, and the enemy has already come close to the walls. If we throw an ordinary grenade at them,we will break the wall,that is,our potential shelter,after which we will be shot like ducks, but if we throw a fragmentation one, then the enemy will kill and the wall will be whole, allowing us to continue firing from cover. The same applies to alien ships,when the enemy is in a room with energy cells, and you don't want to break them at all,a fragmentation grenade comes to our aid. Appearance ? In X-piratez there is a green color option.Since you are in contact with the author of this mod ,this will not be a problem(we recall the sawn-off shot taken from there).

Hmm, so this type of grnade would have decreased terrain destruction? That's doable.

Also, please add lethal gas grenades.There is no need to go far for examples,the M7A3 grenade is in service with the USA.What for? The answer to this question will arise when you meet with the super soldiers of the syndicate or with the special forces of the red dawn, whom you pick one by one ,the whole team, to no avail with your rifle, and they only laugh in response, calling you clowns.

How exactly would it work? Something like gas weapons in Piratez?

Also, I would like to ask you to rebalance the RPG-7, namely its receipt. You get it after 3 boosts, but you also get a launcher. You look at the RPG and the launcher and think what to take.You see the damage of the launcher and all questions disappear. Yes, the launcher does not have such a penetration of armor as an RPG,but it is needed only for MIB tanks, nowhere else, in other cases it is much worse.And I am now talking about the 3rd increase,this is most likely the end of 1998-the beginning of 99, when the invasion is already beginning. Sectoids with a chance of 30-45 percent will withstand an RPG shot, but a heavy rocket from the launcher does not leave them a chance,which means that the player will use the launcher to avoid unnecessary risk,and the RPG will lie and be covered with dust.

The RPG is indeed worse, but can be found in the field, whereas the launcher generally cannot (with minor exceptions). But I agree that they shouldn't appear at exactly the same time...

The idea of the weapon itself is very interesting,a light rocket launcher that causes less damage than a launcher, a more compact ammunition, allowing you to have 7 shots ,not 4, less TU for shooting and reloading, allowing you to charge and shoot in one turn. I really like how the RPG is implemented in X-piratez.A wide variety of missiles allows it to be relevant at all stages of the game.What do I suggest:1-The player gets an RPG after 2 upgrades, but only with a high-explosive missile,getting an anti-tank one on 3 upgrades.This will give the player a good explosive weapon that will help in the fight against the impenetrable special forces of the red dawn and with the super soldiers of the syndicate,as well as give the opportunity to destroy objects at an acceptable level.

Hmm, I had similar thoughts, but this is the level where you get normal grenades and industrial explosives... The RPG is a purely military weapon, therefore belonging strictly in the Promo 3 category.
I'd rather move the rocket launcher a bit further down the line, although I don't really know how far exactly and what should be the prerequisite.

A grenade launcher? This is rather an early version of the mortar, no more.It is good because it shoots with a canopy, allowing you to attack enemies behind obstacles, but not break them.It is not necessary to compare it with rocket launchers,these are different types of weapons.

Agreed!

2-Add thermobaric,tritanium and plasma rockets for RPG to the game. A tritanium rocket will have an even greater armor penetration than an anti-tank one,but the explosion radius will be extremely small(1 cell),a thermobaric rocket is incendiary, but the fire damage is significant,I will not talk about a plasma rocket,we all already know what plasma is and how it hurts.This will allow you to update it at all stages of the game.The player will have a choice-a light mobile rocket launcher with medium damage or a heavy launcher with colossal destructive power and the ability to shoot guided missiles,but it is heavy and slow.I think this will add a choice for the player in tactical terms, and when a player has a choice,it is extremely good.

Adding many warhead types is tempting, but I wonder if it won't impact the other launchers... There's this, the UAC Launcher, the Multi-Launcher, the Rocket Launcher, the Advanced Rocket Launcher, the Small Launcher and the Blaster Launcher (and I probably missed one or two). Plus mortars, vehicles etc. on top of it. Do we really need so many types on each rocket weapon? Or maybe divide missile trypes between different missile weapons?

Regarding the subsequent discussiuon on night vision: you can check which enemy has it by examining their armour entry (the INFO button).

Some fun, too. Chupacabra Neighbourhood Watch? ;D

Haha! :D

Bro fuck Osiron in their well-dressed asses. Their missions are so valuable, but it feels worthless bringing anything above rookie to fight them when you got bastards with RPGs willing to frag themselves in melee range. That said, 10+ Osiron crates > a dragonfly full of rookies.

Osiron indeed is hard. But it's sort of an extra challenge, completely optional in most cases, so up to the player.

Question: is the new stuff talking about the Illuminati and the Majestic 12 a hint we'll be fighting them at some point? I can imagine that doing so might have undesirable effects on your score given their influence over the Council...unless you can spin it as exposing their crimes to the world or establishing X-COM as a fully independent faction or something.

Not to spoil too much, but you're already doing both... :)

Acid Bolt conceived as a grenade?
I think we should add a "grenade" tag to it. To make it easier to find when rigging a ship

No problem, done.

Maybe these are intended, but the drone fire extinguisher is different from the regular one (produces smoke and not water)

I changed the standard extinguisher a couple days ago to work the same way.

the smoke projector is weaker than a smoke grenade

But it's instant. Also, you can deploy multiple per turn. In short, as designed.

and the bioelectric taser batteries are a really raw deal (three +25% effect shots per Muckstar corpse, which don't exactly grow on trees).

It's so much better though!
(And later on, you'll be able to buy monster-related items for cash.)

Edit: Wonder what these fellows are up to that requires them to land in the middle of nowhere, sneak into a barn attic and hold conference there? They even have a lookout by the stairs! ;D

They were all soldiers, too... Worktoids' revolution? :o

I wish I knew! :D

And finally, on the subject of fatigue, number of missions and soldier survivability: I am struggling all the time between making agent development meaningful (so they need to get stronger over time) but also making them replaceable (so the difference between a rookie and a veteran cannot be too great). I've made a lot of changes relatively recently to reinforce the latter, since losing experienced men was too punishing (it was nearly impossible to reliably replace them). There was also a bug (fixed this spring) where gym training only worked at 10% efficiency, which made matters even worse.
To address this, I increased rookies' stats (so now you can train less in the gym, but the final numbers are the same). I also made the Sick Bay available more easily, so you could enhance your dudes with the Red Dawn serum earlier. Hopefully this will ameliorate things.
Perhaps the bonuses you get from commendations are too good, but I don't want to remove them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 20, 2021, 07:17:44 pm
Sorry, EXALT who???
Enforcers. Whose only big advantage is that they're snipers, but we already had that discussion.

...this is the level where you get normal grenades and industrial explosives... The RPG is a purely military weapon, therefore belonging strictly in the Promo 3 category.
IRL, RPG-7 is about as available as hand grenades and AKs, though. There are pirate fishermen touting RPGs, and the Taliban are now using them in their 'police' patrols of Kabul... Javelin, Spike, CG, etc... These aren't handed out like candy.

OTOH, this is our real world, and the one in XCF is somewhat different, and the red tape even more so.

I changed the standard extinguisher a couple days ago to work the same way.
But it's instant. Also, you can deploy multiple per turn. In short, as designed.
Ah, okay. I wrote this before I read that discussion.

It's so much better though!
(And later on, you'll be able to buy monster-related items for cash.)
No problems with getting to buy it later on. It's just that there's this huge gap between "rare as hen's teeth" and then you suddenly get an unlimited supply. Would be more interesting if we got multiple per Muckstar corpse. Even 3-5 would be relatively workable.

Basically, you're really not guaranteed any Muckstars, and the ones you do get leave you with a very small stockpile. The +25% damage isn't really so much better that you'd want to use your extremely tiny amount of clips, outside of very rare circumstances. You'll have to switch to that ammo mid-battle, or have a very specific mission in mind, otherwise even reloading the more powerful ammo is worse than just shooting an extra time with regular batteries.

Not that I'm really using Tasers much after dartguns become available. The only reason to do so is to be able to just buy more clips instead of shuffling engineers around. But Muckstar ammo doesn't help with that.

Maybe it's just me.

Perhaps the bonuses you get from commendations are too good, but I don't want to remove them.
Yeah, I see your problem. If it was me, I'd just remove all commendation bonuses except bravery and go back to high-casualty warfare, but I understand that XCF is trying to be a more personal experience. I think these two contradictory goals will never be fully compatible, but all the small changes you mentioned ought to help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on August 23, 2021, 02:02:35 am
Solarius Scorch,Praetorian Armor - the armor of the Executioner of Doom, well, or Doomguy, so it's clearer. Yes, it's from the new Doom, take a look if you're interested. It is not suitable for UAC,it is an artifact, like a Crucible(the name blade of the Executioner, which you can also read about) and this costume was found in hell,in a sarcophagus with the Executioner, according to the history of the game. You can even add a very strong melee attack based on a retractable blade built into the armor. Why did you suggest adding it ? Well, who knows what the UAC found on the other side of the portal? We weren't there,were we ?
 Further, regarding the lethal gas weapons. Yes, just like in Piratez.
 Now about the RPG-7. You say it's easier to find than a launcher, and it really is. Getting only 3 promotions? I don't agree with you. Let's take a look. RPG-7 is a very easily accessible and cheap weapon. It seems to me that all the terrorists of the world have it. These are not state-of-the-art launchers like javelin and the like. Military equipment ? Then we should get all the machine guns,grenades,mines on the 3rd increase(madness). Will it be too powerful if you get it earlier? Not at all. It is very necessary when attacking cult bases(and headquarters) to break buildings and shelters. Well, seriously, my 8 infantrymen are sitting near a Dragonfly and they shoot 50-100 people one by one from machine guns. Well, this is kind of strange. Moreover, the Council, seeing the threat posed by cults, gives us Osprey(something tells me that this is a very serious thing,and it is much more serious than an RPG). The grenade launcher is basically useless in such an assault-a small explosion area and poor destruction of shelters. RPG-7 is just right for a 2 increase, but only with high-explosive missiles. It will be much easier to cope with huge crowds of enemies. You should not move the Launcher away-it is located where it should be. 
Next, let's talk about rocket ammunition. You mentioned all the rocket launchers, saying that they should not be damaged. Let's figure it out. The UAC rocket launcher is a really interesting weapon,which has a huge potential,but its low power spoils everything(we recall the Launcher). You can use it a little,but only a little. It would be more relevant if it had a damage of 80-85 (at least to be guaranteed to cope with sectoids). In this case, I would say that it is possible not to add new missiles for the RPG, but to add Plasma missiles for this installation. Why? 1-UAC developed plasma weapons, could also develop missiles. 2-Will be the same light rocket launcher, very mobile(plasma damage 115-120) and medium in power, which will give the player a choice in a late game. 3 - It is futuristic, a rocket launcher with a clip is cool ! Next, a 4-barrel rocket launcher is garbage, uselessness, irrelevance. Low damage,poor accuracy,poor area damage-why is this necessary ? If we talk about it as a multiple launch rocket system, then due to the disgusting characteristics, the effect will be minimal.The effect of one Heavy rocket will be 3 times better. The launcher is the initial version of the development of a heavy rocket launcher. She's fine. Improved rocket launcher-the final development of heavy missile weapons-now you can launch guided missiles! Oh, my God, this is amazing ! Also, in the late game we get an Eleria rocket,which makes MLG with Sectopods and Obliterators with a single hit ! O HOLY SHIT !(It remains only to add guided Eleria missiles and the Blaster installation can be flushed down the toilet). I will not continue,I will only say that this is the best weapon of mass destruction(yes, even cooler than a Blaster launcher, after receiving Eleria missiles). A small alien launcher - only to capture enemies, no more. For causing damage, it is a garbage dump. It is much more profitable to use a Plasma Destroyer(12 charges in the store, and more damage, baby). So,the most terrible weapon for X-COM,a Blaster launcher. It is needed for terraforming and destroying unarmored meat. It is useful wherever there are no Sectopods, because they laugh when purple balls fly at them, which clap hard, but they do nothing.There are no analogues of this rocket launcher. So, what we have. In the late game,there is only heavy missile weapons, but there is no light one(well, this function is now performed by a Plasma Destroyer, but this is not the case, the damage and damage to the terrain are too small).A UAC rocket launcher or an RPG-7 with plasma ammunition will be very useful.
			
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on August 23, 2021, 02:54:55 am
Solarius Scorch,Also, I would like to write a review about the plot branch with UAC. Scorch, that's great ! You did a good job, thank you for that ! Early plasma weapons, and (the cherry on the cake) BFG-amazing and very relevant. But there are problems.
1-Search for a special UAC weapon.I was able to find the BFG, but I couldn't find the Hangman machine gun. Where can I find him ? I wouldn't have found the BFG either if I hadn't looked at the map and accidentally saw a strange loot that interested me. When I looked at his sprite, I was seized with a fit of joy. I would like the player to be given a hint that experimental weapons are lying somewhere on the level,because this is, in fact,the only mission with a secret in the game,and you don't even think that BFG is hidden somewhere on the level(cyberdisk helped me find it). 
2-After the study, the BFG disappears. When I started exploring it, I was smiling, when I explored the BFG, I was even more happy,but when I decided to put it in the ship and found that it was gone, it was extremely unpleasant, because I had already activated the UAC codes and the final mission would no longer appear. Very unpleasant. I lost the coolest gun in the game due to ignorance. I,as a player,after finding this, thought that I had found an artifact that can only be one for the entire game,and this artifact disappears after exploration.(the BFG description says that UAC was only able to make one instance. And the crooked-armed scientists of X-COM broke it). 
3-UAC plasma weapon. Namely, its use. How should I guess that in order to use this weapon,I have to explore the Sphere of Darkness,and it opens only after studying the Ectoplasm,and the Sphere itself can only be obtained in the final mission of the Apocalypse. There is too much illogicality.If I hadn't climbed into the technology tree,I would have been tormenting myself with the question-what didn't I do ? The first thought when you can't take the UAC Plasma in your hands-Seriously? Only when opening a plasma weapon ? This sucks ! I propose to change the UAC Plasma discovery branch to a more logical one. The player gets the opportunity to use the UAC Plasma after interrogating the leading UAC engineer, having received from him access codes to weapons that are blocked by a cipher. X-COM gets the code, cracks it,and can use this weapon. Very logical and much simpler. 
4-The final mission with the portal and the development of the plot. The mission description says that we can either activate the self-destruct codes of the space base, or fight until we kill EVERYONE. I realized that there are 2 endings, and I decided that if I don't blow up the base,I will get a prize. But how to do this when reinforcements are constantly coming, the demons are running away and there are 1-2 hidden enemies on the map. You try to find them,reinforcements come again and everything starts over again. They are running away again, again searching for the last one. Madness ! I lasted more than 60 moves,I couldn't do it anymore. The imps burned through my cyberdisks and there was simply nothing to tank with,I had to activate the codes,as a result, I lost the true ending and the opportunity to buy plasma batteries. This is very unfair. It is better to make a fight with a Cyberdemon than to engage in masturbation with the search for the last enemy. Next, well, we blew up the base, lost the portal,but why do we lose the opportunity to buy batteries ? We find a Sphere of Darkness(and the description of this Sphere says that it is a bottomless source of chaos energy). Why can't we donate it to UAC so that they can use it to produce batteries and then sell their X-COM? 
5-A lightweight UAC plasmometer. Please redo this weapon. Compared to the UAC Plasma Rifle, it is much less relevant. It has worse accuracy and higher TU costs for firing bursts. As far as I understand,this is either a plasma machine gun or a more advanced plasma rifle. Then you need to make more shots in the queue(6-8), or increase the accuracy of the shot offhand and aimed shot. Please think about it. 
Also,I would like to ask, Scorch, when will the valiant agents of X-COM go to the Doom Portal to meet the Fiends of Hell ?
			
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 23, 2021, 03:12:58 am
@Doomslayer: Paragraphs. They exist. I can't read your walls of text without my eyes glazing over, and I doubt Solarius will, either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: krautbernd on August 23, 2021, 07:07:28 am
Jesus, what even is this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: DoomSlayer on August 23, 2021, 04:59:48 pm
I beg your pardon. I write from my phone, so I have problems with paragraphs. I tried to correct the text as best I could.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2021, 03:24:16 pm
IRL, RPG-7 is about as available as hand grenades and AKs, though. There are pirate fishermen touting RPGs, and the Taliban are now using them in their 'police' patrols of Kabul... Javelin, Spike, CG, etc... These aren't handed out like candy.

Yeah, but it's about having a license, not market availability... Which is why initially you can't buy AKs either, you know.

Still, I'm willing to consider moving it to Promo II and Explosives Licence, if only to differentiate it more from the Rocket Launcher. I'm not sure.

No problems with getting to buy it later on. It's just that there's this huge gap between "rare as hen's teeth" and then you suddenly get an unlimited supply. Would be more interesting if we got multiple per Muckstar corpse. Even 3-5 would be relatively workable.

OK, I can do that. Let's make it 3 for now, to be conservative.

Yeah, I see your problem. If it was me, I'd just remove all commendation bonuses except bravery and go back to high-casualty warfare, but I understand that XCF is trying to be a more personal experience. I think these two contradictory goals will never be fully compatible, but all the small changes you mentioned ought to help.

Indeed, I am of the same opinion. Searching for the perfect balance is never over... :)

@DoomSlayer:
- gas weapons: I plan to add anti-E115 gas. I can add standard (PPiratez-like) gas too. There hasn't been anyy interest until now, but I'll add it to my to-do list.
- RPG: see above.
- UAC Rocket Launcher: hmm, plasma missiles are not UAC style. Yes, they have plasma weapons, but the technologyu is completely different and I can't see how it can be used to make explosives (IMO it would be an absurd waste of demonic essence). But some conventional type of heavy warhead is possible. Still, remember that it's not Piratez, we can't just make our own ammo for corporate weapons and tell them to sod off...

I probably missed something, but to be honest, reading your posts should be considered a working hazard. Sorry. (No, "I'm on a phone" is not an excuse, it has nothing to do with it.)

About the UAC arc:
1) Thanks for the kind words!
2) I don't understand how you could have brught the BFG to your ship and not recover it. It's just not possible...
3) UAC Plasma. "How should I guess..." - from the Tech Tree Viewer, like everyone else. I don't like this feature much, but it exists, so that's howe it is. If you don't want spoilers, I appreciate it, but then you'ree suposed to look for answers by playing the game. Can't have a cookie and eat it at the same time! :)
Anyway, this is major magic mojo, just an Engineer wouldn't know what to tell you. A Master Researcher, maybe...
4) How to win? I don't know how, it's the player's job to find a solution. It's harsh, but players usually steamroll through whatever I throw at them, so I'm trying to make hard missions really hard. Especially when they're optional. But well, I could make the reinforcements come less frequently or something...
5) What the fuck is a "plasmometer"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on August 27, 2021, 05:52:56 pm
Yeah, but it's about having a license, not market availability...

Still, I'm willing to consider moving it to Promo II and Explosives Licence, if only to differentiate it more from the Rocket Launcher.
You could also go with something like Red Dawn suppliers + Promo II. Not everything in the inventory goes through the red tape, you know. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: HinterDemGlas on August 27, 2021, 11:57:08 pm
After translating a lot of this game I have some random observations/opinions about style, prose and information layout to share.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Mrvex on September 01, 2021, 05:08:17 pm
After having a mission in the desert, citizens vs monsters who decide to charge out of their african mudhuts to face scorpions. One thing hit me when i heard the satisfying crunch as my soldier smashed one with his fist.

One thing hit me... couldnt carapace plate be made from Scorpion bodies too ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on September 03, 2021, 04:33:41 am
After hitting some MAGMA-related stuff again, I really wish things like "The Council is livid, -500 points" were more impactful. 500 points are peanuts, one good mission gives as much. Something like 10-20k would be more appropriate, so if you do anything that pisses your handlers off, you fail the month and could possibly even lose the game if you get too cheeky and go for it twice in a row.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: krautbernd on September 03, 2021, 02:24:38 pm
After hitting some MAGMA-related stuff again, I really wish things like "The Council is livid, -500 points" were more impactful. 500 points are peanuts, one good mission gives as much. Something like 10-20k would be more appropriate, so if you do anything that pisses your handlers off, you fail the month and could possibly even lose the game if you get too cheeky and go for it twice in a row.
This has been brought up before numerous times iirc. From what I can tell the problem is that the point scores are absolute, not relative to players score - so you can end up with a comically small or absurdly large penalty, depending on your playstyle and progression. I don't think inflating penalties in this way is useful, as - by your own admission - X-Com could simply pull this off the two months later anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on September 03, 2021, 03:29:26 pm
Since the goal is to inflict a severe penalty on the player, scores don't persist between different months, and there's a hard cap on funding reduction (20%) and a soft one on score (what's the highest you can reasonably get in a month? 20k? 50k? 100k?), just hit them with a large enough penalty that it hits everyone. Or, alternatively, if even 10k is a drop in the bucket, you're doing so well that it's reasonable to expect that the Council overlooks the transgression.

Right now the problem is that the penalty is pretty much always comically small. I don't see the downside of making it relevant at least some of the time.

And if X-Com delays a month or two, it pays an opportunity cost, not to mention the actual hit to funding for low score. You could just as well argue that Council funding is eventually meaningless, so let's make it zero from the beginning. :P Same thing here.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Mathel on September 03, 2021, 04:11:56 pm
I think there should be a large penalty.
However, if the penalty is large enough that you can't do well that month, then for the rest of the month, you have a free pass on any terror missions (And any other missions that are risky for minimal reward). They are merely point loss and you are going to be deep in the negative either way.

What if the penalty was let's say 30k, but instead of it being applied all at once, it would be done by 15k immediately and 15k by event in 30days? So you can still have positive score this month and you can still have positive score the next month, but it is possible to fail both and lose.

The event could say something like "The council is still unhappy about you revealing critical secrets last month and it will take a lot to impress them."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on September 03, 2021, 05:25:39 pm
That's a pretty good idea! You could even have the events continue for longer than a month, since 15k is still quite a lot in the earlier phases of the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 04, 2021, 02:06:59 pm
You could also go with something like Red Dawn suppliers + Promo II. Not everything in the inventory goes through the red tape, you know. :P

You know, this sounds like a good plan. I'll think about it.

After translating a lot of this game I have some random observations/opinions about style, prose and information layout to share.
(...)

First of all, thanks for completing the monumental task of translating the mod. It's not something an ordinary person would do!

Secondly, thank you for the review. I can't comment much at this point, but I accept both the good and the bad. I listen to the criticism and I do improve things at time.

After having a mission in the desert, citizens vs monsters who decide to charge out of their african mudhuts to face scorpions. One thing hit me when i heard the satisfying crunch as my soldier smashed one with his fist.

One thing hit me... couldnt carapace plate be made from Scorpion bodies too ?

Potentially yes, but it would be really complicated to do. Since the scorpion armour is muhc lighter than a beetle's, I think it's fine as it is. (I'd like to add some other bonus from scorpions instead.)

After hitting some MAGMA-related stuff again, I really wish things like "The Council is livid, -500 points" were more impactful. 500 points are peanuts, one good mission gives as much. Something like 10-20k would be more appropriate, so if you do anything that pisses your handlers off, you fail the month and could possibly even lose the game if you get too cheeky and go for it twice in a row.

The points are more like a slap on the wrist, the real penalties happen later with some events etc.

Anyway, the game doesn't operate on such scales... Also, what Krautbernd said.

What if the penalty was let's say 30k, but instead of it being applied all at once, it would be done by 15k immediately and 15k by event in 30days? So you can still have positive score this month and you can still have positive score the next month, but it is possible to fail both and lose.

Not sure if it can be done... I am sceptical, but maybe?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on September 04, 2021, 02:48:04 pm
Not sure if it can be done... I am sceptical, but maybe?
Couldn't you have a series of auto-toggling researches that enable the events? The event grants a new research topic that disables itself and enables a new event, until the last one just disables everything?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: krautbernd on September 04, 2021, 03:24:48 pm
Not sure if it can be done... I am sceptical, but maybe?

As far as I can tell you'd still run into the same problems - i.e. no real way to tell how "good" or "bad" progression for the player has been, and what might be considered a "trivial" point penalty to some might be (automatically) game-ending for others. Again, if there was some way to scale penalties to actual player scores this might be doable in a sane way, but right now you'd have to be guessing - which I don't think is a good approach to a mechanic that is potentially game-ending.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Juku121 on September 04, 2021, 04:13:19 pm
As far as I can tell you'd still run into the same problems - i.e. no real way to tell how "good" or "bad" progression for the player has been
Why is it a problem? Most other mechanics don't scale with player progress. If anything, it's the opposite. Unmanaged cults causing extra infiltration, vampires running roughshod over early-game teams, the infamous 'two agents and car went missing', CoA jumping you with advanced weapons and a shitton of cultists if you pick the 'wrong' research, the alien timetable not depending on what you do... Having this be a decision that leads to a bad end wouldn't exactly be an outlier. So you don't pick this option until you can handle it, same as with a lot of other things. Infiltration is worse because the player has zero control over it and can at best mitigate the results, but here the decision and consequences are theirs.

Since you need two months of bad score, warn the player with an event that if they do it again, the project might get terminated. Should be enough to get the message across, and actually make the Council scary.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.9: Free Falling
Post by: Mathel on September 04, 2021, 06:26:02 pm
Not sure if it can be done... I am sceptical, but maybe?

I did some research. Apparently, it could not be done with a set delay from the research, but could be guaranteed to happen next month and never again.

As far as I can tell you'd still run into the same problems - i.e. no real way to tell how "good" or "bad" progression for the player has been, and what might be considered a "trivial" point penalty to some might be (automatically) game-ending for others. Again, if there was some way to scale penalties to actual player scores this might be doable in a sane way, but right now you'd have to be guessing - which I don't think is a good approach to a mechanic that is potentially game-ending.

Not really. It could be scaled to the least power the player can have when they trigger it, which I expect is about when the stuff provided in return is relevant.
Sure, if you research Share Tritanium Ammo when you are already using Plasma, the penalty will be meaningless. So will Tritanium ammo for the various M.A.G.M.A guns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 04, 2021, 06:38:24 pm
Version 2.0 is out.

2.0:
- New weapons: Var Assault Cannon (sprites by Brain_322), Hoe (sprite by Mister X), USAS-12.
- New ammo: Taser Bioelectric Shock Clip.
- New item: Jar of Gray Goo.
- New armors: Mongorn Anzug (sprites by Brain_322), X-Com Liquidator.
- New units: Osiron Fixer (sprites by Brain_322), Asmodean Cobra (autopsy picture by Brain_322).
- New mission: Osiron Hacienda.
- New facility: Tritanium Foundry (required for making Tritanium, needs Alien Power Systems).
- New agent nationality: Saudi Arabia (flag by Kato).
- 1 new event.
- 12 cult intercepted message events (by Helrica).
- New lore articles.
- Added 30x30 maps to most basic terrains.
- New Island Urban block (by Dioxine).
- 4 new Jungle maps (collab with Dioxine).
- Sand slows you down, unless you can slither.
- Streamlined and wrapped up the Shogg arc.
- Disassembling some alien machines yields more resources.
- New Bullfrog death sound.
- Muckstars are easier to hit in melee.
- Sectopod Laser Cannon renamed to Sectopod Laser Repeater, now has autoshot x4.
- Thrasher no longer has Fire Spraying.
- Fire Extinguisher has area of effect again.
- Rat attack scales with Strength.
- Pike missiles are stronger and cheaper.
- Remaining starting cults become more active after 01.01.1999.
- Overhauled sailors' equipment.
- Relaxed Sanity cost on Zombie missions.
- Chemtrails mission includes a Hybrid Supervisor.
- Illegal Requisition Files can sometimes be found on cult hideouts.
- Sick Bay available more easily.
- Turbolasers require optronic parts.
- Added Ufopaedia pages for drone weapons.
- New Advanced Lab sprite (by Brain_322).
- Proper flag on bank/government buildings (by Brain_322).
- Improved graphics for some ranked aliens and the Mummy (by The Martian).
- Updated graphics for some Sectoid variants (by Brain_322).
- Better Dog Cybersuit sprite (by Brain_322).
- Proper Red Dawn Sailor bigob (by Brain_322).
- New Advanced Rocket Launcher design (by Brain_322).
- Sprites New BlackOps Smart Rifle handob and floorob (by Brain_322).
- New Laser Rifle floorob (by Brain_322).
- New Sniper Rifle and Gas Cannon bigobs (by Brain_322).
- New UAC Rifle handob (by Brain_322).
- New HWP Smoke Projector sprites (by Brain_322).
- Medical Supplies graphics differ by quality (by Brain_322).
- Proper Aqua-Plastics Suit sprite for hybrids (by Brain_322).
- Proper Synthsuit icon.
- Syndicate Agent death animation fix (by Brain_322).
- Fixed Alien Brain recovery from the alien orbital station.
- Fixed NightOps camo.
- Fixed Viper costs.
- Fixed selling costs of some items to avoid endless money on Beginner.
- Fixed MiB Executor Ufopaedia picture.
- Various terrain fixes (by Dioxine).
- Minor fixes.



Some notes:
- Your M83 Barrett rifles and ammo will disappear, sorry.
- A new nationality was added, so all nationalities after it (alphabetically) are moved by 1. This will result in wrong flags in some cases. You can fix it easily yourselves by clicking on the flag.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Mrvex on September 04, 2021, 07:34:15 pm
Jar of Grey Goo ? Is that some sort of new grenade you can toss at enemies so they get dismantled by a swarm of nanobots ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: RolandVasko on September 04, 2021, 09:42:55 pm
( @Solarius )

hi i just got the idea on the next version´ title  -   *There are the things between Eearth and Heaven"

what do you think?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: RolandVasko on September 04, 2021, 09:48:18 pm
- Your M83 Barrett rifles and ammo will disappear, sorry.

 :( :-\ why

it was 1 of my most favourites heavy sniper guns
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: mercy on September 05, 2021, 02:17:19 pm

2.0:
[..]
- Streamlined and wrapped up the Shogg arc.
Main page says: Shogg: 72%
Does it reflect current state of Shogg?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: HinterDemGlas on September 05, 2021, 02:35:39 pm
Congratulations on the big 2!

- Your M83 Barrett rifles and ammo will disappear, sorry.

 :( :-\ why

it was 1 of my most favourites heavy sniper guns
You may find it's still there, "downgraded" slightly... if only in name.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Marrik on September 07, 2021, 01:59:15 am
Is 2.0 savegame-compatible with 1.9?

Also, what happened to the M83 Barretts? Were they removed entirely? And if so, why?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Progger on September 07, 2021, 07:53:00 am
Also, what happened to the M83 Barretts? Were they removed entirely? And if so, why?
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8870.msg140842.html#msg140842 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8870.msg140842.html#msg140842)
You can replace STR_M83_BARETT to STR_M82_BARETT in save file and you won't lose it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Mrvex on September 09, 2021, 08:23:43 am
2 of the MAGMA share tech research topics needs to be changed, i just realized that both of them actually give you fuckall if you dont have a completely different tech from different story lines and they feel like a massive noob trap for those not using middle mouse button to see what gives what.

1) Sharing Alien Gardens with MAGMA
MAGMA can offer you chemical rounds for pulse weapons (And nothing else ?) But Pulse weapons are completely different unlock from Syndicate storyline.
So you can research Alien Gardens, share bioweapons with a corporation and you get nothing in return. This research needs to be locked behind having pulse weapons in the first place.

2) Sharing Elerium battery with MAGMA
Same as Alien Gardens, researching Elerium batteries lets you share it with this corporation but you get nothing in return, you need to get Terramite from Shogg arch too in order to unlock the power armor.

This tech needs to be locked together with sharing elerium batteries.



 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 10, 2021, 11:30:10 am
( @Solarius )

hi i just got the idea on the next version´ title  -   *There are the things between Eearth and Heaven"

what do you think?

Not bad. But it depends on what the next version will feature!

- Your M83 Barrett rifles and ammo will disappear, sorry.

 :( :-\ why

it was 1 of my most favourites heavy sniper guns

It is still in the game, but will need to be found, researched and bought again, sorry.
(Also, happy to hear this weapon has some use.)

Main page says: Shogg: 72%
Does it reflect current state of Shogg?

This dumb thing. :/ Sorry, I forgot it's ever existed.
Sure, I'll update the counter.

2 of the MAGMA share tech research topics needs to be changed, i just realized that both of them actually give you fuckall if you dont have a completely different tech from different story lines and they feel like a massive noob trap for those not using middle mouse button to see what gives what.

1) Sharing Alien Gardens with MAGMA
MAGMA can offer you chemical rounds for pulse weapons (And nothing else ?) But Pulse weapons are completely different unlock from Syndicate storyline.
So you can research Alien Gardens, share bioweapons with a corporation and you get nothing in return. This research needs to be locked behind having pulse weapons in the first place.

2) Sharing Elerium battery with MAGMA
Same as Alien Gardens, researching Elerium batteries lets you share it with this corporation but you get nothing in return, you need to get Terramite from Shogg arch too in order to unlock the power armor.

This tech needs to be locked together with sharing elerium batteries.

I'll withhold with these changes, because:
1) While I get the point, it would be a little weird to make M.A.G.M.A. act this way;
2) it's kinda complex and I don't want to break anything before going on holidays. I'll think about it after I'm back.

And speaking of broken versions: bugfix version 2.0.1 has been released.

- Removed support for en-GB (until someone maintains it).
- Fixed missing Tritanium Foundry files.
- Fixed armor values on hybrids' Polar Suit.
- Minor terrain fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 11, 2021, 12:59:31 am
Is it still the case that when you destroy alien colonies you get countries back from alien pacts? 2 months into alien invasion and already the US and Israel have withdrawn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Juku121 on September 11, 2021, 01:50:15 am
Is it still the case that when you destroy alien colonies you get countries back from alien pacts?
No. There's an entire thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8767.0.html) about it, and also other discussions here and on Discord.

Basically, Solarius finds it unimmersive and its his mod. If you hate it, you can change this for yourself with a very tiny change (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8767.msg140406.html#msg140406), although you won't be getting back the whole 'embassy' mechanic (which was kinda weird).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: 0xEBJC on September 16, 2021, 08:48:00 pm
Solarius Scorch,

---
I read your comments about not having engineers in masses just for profit, and I understand your perspective.  I'm still playing through XCF for the 1st time.

Suggestion, if it hasn't been made yet.  What do you think of have some items that engineers make at the following graduated steps 60%, 80%, 100%, 120% so at 60% there is a 40% cost of the engineers monthly salary. where it would be tied to some game progress steps, say 'Promotion I" & "Promotion II", unlocking BlackOps, etc...

The idea would be that even at end game, 120% isn't a huge amount, but it at-least gives the engineers something to do when no other specific task is needed and they don't cost too much overhead in monthly costs.  I just unlocked blackOps and I think currently one of the grenades is the most profitable at about 50%, so still a lost in engineer overcost.

---
Another idea (This one probably needs a feature added to OXCE code)
some create items that have a profitable cost say at the lowest level - beginning of game engineers can produce a specific available item at a profit of 102%
then when either a specific #of items are produced or a game progression is met the defined item properties change and it becomes was less profitable.
This idea could propagate through the game as you get new things "novelty" they are more profitable, and either overtime when game progression milestones are met or too many items are produced the items sell value and profitability drops, like flooding the market, or last years i-phone isn't as desired as next years i-phone.

functionality that could make this work,
dynamic in-game rul file values, manufacture, item definitions could be changed updated or removed from availability (i.e. a new item is defined for the old one with different properties) so you would have to remove the item or actually change it's properties, just remove it from the list that enables its availability and add the new same item with different values.

Track the total number of items for a specific time manufactured, even when stopping and starting manufacturing of the same item or across different bases.

Another Idea would be to allow the sell/sack menu to have specific sellers, like to the public, to the UN/Funding Nations Governments, to the Cult factions, like you might be able to sell BlackOps or other specific/high interest/value items to the black marked arms dealers for a premium, but get docked score points...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
Post by: 0xEBJC on September 16, 2021, 11:17:44 pm
Yes, it's for OXCE+. The file is distributed with the mod, just like Piratez.

Well then, waiting for reviews. 8)

X-Com Files is awesome! It's so much more than a mod, after playing just a little while, I'm probably not going back but considering this the defacto game! very good.  do you want reviews else where, like on mod.io?

Much appreciated!
-JC
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Jimboman on September 21, 2021, 04:52:03 pm
[Recommendation]

Rename "Accurized Shotgun" --> "Long Barrel Shotgun", or "Precision LR Shotgun", (LR is for Long Range), or "Honed LR Shotgun", Accurized isn't an English word.  Your mod pack is very good and I only make the recommendation because I think it would further improve it as a very professional game release.

-JC

I think the 'accurized shotgun' is in the 'xcomfiles additions' submod and not the main mod, and Solarius has nothing to do with that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Juku121 on September 21, 2021, 07:41:45 pm
Accurized isn't an English word.
I don't know what dialect of English you practice, but for the major ones, it very  (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/accurized)much  (https://www.guns.com/news/reviews/colt-accurized)is (http://www.cotswoldshooting.co.uk/Workshop.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: 0xEBJC on September 22, 2021, 01:29:26 am
Juku121,

lol, thanks! :)  To be hones't I've been around real firearms my whole life and had never heard the word "accurized" before. I should have googled it and not made any assumptions.

Well I got egg on my face for this one  :-\  I do apologize, and thanks for correcting me.  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: gfzuglian on September 22, 2021, 06:37:42 pm
Hello,

I play X-com since 1994, played a lot of clones and have to say that this mod blows my mind in terms of content. What a beast.

I've been playing for a couple months and this week unlocked what is supposed to be the final mission (
cydonia
. But I still have osirion, hybrids and MiB missions, and I'm unable to progress in their arcs. My research tab is empty (90%), got everyone of them hybrids and MiB and Osirion types alive for interrogation but cannot proceed. Am I missing a key element?

I'm also stuck on the underwater missions. The farthest I went was
destroying the tasoth facility and taking escort subs
, nothing new is happening.

Thanks for the great mod!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 23, 2021, 12:02:45 pm
I'm back!

I read your comments about not having engineers in masses just for profit, and I understand your perspective.  I'm still playing through XCF for the 1st time.

Suggestion, if it hasn't been made yet.  What do you think of have some items that engineers make at the following graduated steps 60%, 80%, 100%, 120% so at 60% there is a 40% cost of the engineers monthly salary. where it would be tied to some game progress steps, say 'Promotion I" & "Promotion II", unlocking BlackOps, etc...

The idea would be that even at end game, 120% isn't a huge amount, but it at-least gives the engineers something to do when no other specific task is needed and they don't cost too much overhead in monthly costs.  I just unlocked blackOps and I think currently one of the grenades is the most profitable at about 50%, so still a lost in engineer overcost.

I'm not sure if I understand the suggestion. So you'd get more profitable manufacturing projects as you advance?

Anyway, my goal is to eliminate manufacturing for cash, so this model, like any other profit model, is a no. There are several reasons for this, both gameplay (money becomes meaningless fast) and lore (you're not the only one producing this stuff, and some entities can offer better prices as they're real industrial facilities).

Another idea (This one probably needs a feature added to OXCE code)
some create items that have a profitable cost say at the lowest level - beginning of game engineers can produce a specific available item at a profit of 102%
(...)

D:

Another Idea would be to allow the sell/sack menu to have specific sellers, like to the public, to the UN/Funding Nations Governments, to the Cult factions, like you might be able to sell BlackOps or other specific/high interest/value items to the black marked arms dealers for a premium, but get docked score points...

That would imply some sort of a diplomacy system, which doesn't exist.

X-Com Files is awesome! It's so much more than a mod, after playing just a little while, I'm probably not going back but considering this the defacto game! very good.  do you want reviews else where, like on mod.io?

Thank you, that's really nice! :)
I am not actively looking for reviews or anything, but it's nice to see people enjoy my mod.

I play X-com since 1994, played a lot of clones and have to say that this mod blows my mind in terms of content. What a beast.

And thanks to you as well, it's amazing to see!

But I still have osirion, hybrids and MiB missions, and I'm unable to progress in their arcs. My research tab is empty (90%), got everyone of them hybrids and MiB and Osirion types alive for interrogation but cannot proceed. Am I missing a key element?

Osiron, hybrids and MiBs cannot be completed. It's by design - as long as there are aliens, there will be hybrids and MiBs (at least for now). And you can't completely root out crime, so Osiron is also kinda immortal.

I'm also stuck on the underwater missions.

Sounds like you completed the arc. T'leth is still out there, but dealing with it is not a part of the mod - all you had to do is to nullify the most immediate threat, and apparently you did.

It's Cydonia time! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: gfzuglian on September 23, 2021, 03:27:59 pm
Thanks for your response!

Is it possible to achieve 100% research? I'm looking into the tech tree and I haven't encontered lobstermen  biologist, technician and overlord. Same with charcharodon vivisector, mechanic and warlord. Are they in the game? Sometimes being a completionist kinda sucks, lol
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: 0xEBJC on October 05, 2021, 12:10:43 am
Quote
I'm not sure if I understand the suggestion. So you'd get more profitable manufacturing projects as you advance?

Anyway, my goal is to eliminate manufacturing for cash, so this model, like any other profit model, is a no. There are several reasons for this, both gameplay (money becomes meaningless fast) and lore (you're not the only one producing this stuff, and some entities can offer better prices as they're real industrial facilities).

I was suggesting that with game progressions the profitability would increase as the X-Com can eventually make more unique items that no one else can.

For Example:
Code: [Select]
Game Progressions,                 Most profitable item ,                            upkeep cost ,                        Net Gain / month / engineer
                               (monthly profit / month for 1 engineer)           (1 engineer / month)
          20 %                              25K * 50% =       $12.5k                     $25k                               -$12.5k
          30 %                              25K * 60% =       $15.0k                     $25k                               -$10.0k
          40 %                              25K * 70% =       $17.5k                     $25k                               -$07.5k
          50 %                              25K * 80% =       $20.0k                     $25k                               -$05.0k
          60 %                              25K * 90% =       $22.5k                     $25k                               -$02.5k
          70 %                              25K * 100% =      $25.0k                     $25k                                $00.0k
          80 %                              25K * 110% =      $27.5k                     $25k                                $02.5k
          90 %                              25K * 120% =      $30.0k                     $25k                                $05.0k


The idea isn't to make a large profit, but to progressively improve the balance of cost for engineering upkeep cost.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: 0xEBJC on October 05, 2021, 12:26:20 am
I posted the hanger expansion mod (https://openxcom.mod.io/hanger-expansion-mod-x-com-files) for x-com files.  If you ever decided to add it to your mod pack an idea I had is the following:

Similar to how you can have a bio-lab {bio-lab} or an intel-lab {intel-lab} or how the HQ can act as both {bio-lab}{intel-lab}, you could create similar type property for the hangers.

For example:

Hanger                         #of hanger slots {1}   Size  of allowable crafts {Large, Medium, Small}
Double Hanger              #of hanger slots {2}   Size  of allowable crafts {Small}
3x3 Quad-Hanger          #of hanger slots {4}   Size  of allowable crafts {Medium, Small}

I'm just basing this off the pixel size of the circle landing pads so even though you have a double hangar it could only used for small crafts, like cars, vans, humvee, marauder even maybe the helicopter.  Then medium crafts could be interceptors, skyranger, etc... and the large for large crafts like AWACS, avernger and other large crafts.  That way a hanger upgrade is helpful, but also there is a trade off.

So this way you could have 2 cars in the double hangar or a separate base with a 3x3 qaud hangar with 4 interceptors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: termidor on October 07, 2021, 01:04:25 pm
Isn't the XM29 OICW grenade a bit OP? Specially considering that the program was cancelled in part due to the low lethability of the grenades, they currently outperform similar competiton like the ligth cannon. Add to that the pretty good accuracy of the weapon and you got yourself a pretty damm good HE sniper I honestly think the firing extra damage should be removed + accuracy drop off should be the same as normal rifles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Fomka on October 11, 2021, 05:26:14 pm
Isn't the XM29 OICW grenade a bit OP? Specially considering that the program was cancelled in part due to the low lethability of the grenades...
The Russian Empire would have said “No, its grenades are not powerful enough and therefore it is illegal” and displayed the Saint Petersburg Act of 1868 to forum members.

Just joking, sorry. Has been entertained with the recently learned facts:

1. German H&K company was sued by its partner for a delay in producing XM-25 weapons for the US Army in 2017.
2. Germans hesitated upon their co-developed weapon would have been considered as a violation of an old international agreement.
3. The agreement was signed in Saint Petersburg in 1868 and forbids any war usage of explosive ammunition that weighs less than 400 gramms per round due to inhuman cruelty of deaths from such an ammunition: an ordinary bullet would suffice.
Some prooflinks:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170325025656/http://www.fox9.com/news/233155258-story
https://en-wikipedia-org.turbopages.org/en.wikipedia.org/s/wiki/Saint_Petersburg_Declaration_of_1868


It seems HK needed an excuse to leave the project.

As for the topic, I think no changes are needed. It's a game, and even early game. But if you want more realism then yes, sniper rifles which fire explosive rounds are nowhere to be seen in real life. Accuracy is too high, can be a rifle, not a sniper.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: The Reaver of Darkness on October 15, 2021, 07:06:38 pm
I'm not sure if you fixed this since I snatched it, but it has come to my attention that a handobs from your mod has a defect. I have offered a fixed version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: the nomad on October 21, 2021, 06:51:50 pm
The latest Oxce gives me errors about multiple recoverable items in Swarmid Large Corpse and Wraith Armor I think. I downgraded to OXCE 7.0 and it worked, but will old OXCE cause problems? I am asking because I remember with an old version of OXCE, safehouses did not work correctly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: krautbernd on October 27, 2021, 12:22:10 am
Solarius, is there any reason base facilities like the access lift, HQ etc. give mana/sanitiy recovery?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: Mrvex on October 28, 2021, 08:15:49 pm
Solarius, is there any reason base facilities like the access lift, HQ etc. give mana/sanitiy recovery?

Well, Lift because its kinda hard to do your job if you cannot leave or enter the base.... unless you fancy climbing the hangar door each day with a rope.

HQ gives a psychological effect, if you were in a base that actually has a command centre with you and high ranking teammates (If not direcly the Commander), your mind would be alot more at ease, more safety, ensurance and order in case of future missions or base defence.

Or if any other buildings give sanity, it would make sense in universe for soldiers to feel more...secure when their base has alot of structures, big budget, it will make them feel more important to XCOM.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: krautbernd on October 28, 2021, 09:35:34 pm
Well, Lift because its kinda hard to do your job if you cannot leave or enter the base.... unless you fancy climbing the hangar door each day with a rope.

HQ gives a psychological effect, if you were in a base that actually has a command centre with you and high ranking teammates (If not direcly the Commander), your mind would be alot more at ease, more safety, ensurance and order in case of future missions or base defence.

Or if any other buildings give sanity, it would make sense in universe for soldiers to feel more...secure when their base has alot of structures, big budget, it will make them feel more important to XCOM.

Not asking from a lore standpoint, as these values are only exposed internally / in the debug menu.

I am asking because they are not cumulative - only the highest one is counted (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)):
Quote
The facility setting is NOT cumulative, more facilities don't provide more regen. If there are multiple facilities of different type with different regen rate, the best (highest) regen rate is used.

Living quarters/large living quarters already provide a bonus which is larger than that of any other facility apart from the sensorium. Meaning the other boni are kind of pointless, as you need living quarters to begin with. On that account, why do the large living quarters provide a higher bonus than the regular ones?

The reason I am bringing this up is because to me it looks like the values were defined with a cumulative bonus in mind (which would explain why the HQ etc. have small bonuses) when they aren't actually taken into account.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: tr0phygh0ul on November 16, 2021, 05:46:42 am
hi, great mod, really like how not only adds stuff from other XCOM games but also paranormal and other sci-fi elements

though i have a question, is the late game grind a placeholder until the remaining arcs are completed? what about the spawn rates for the "final" missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: QuybiT on November 17, 2021, 12:46:10 am
though i have a question, is the late game grind a placeholder until the remaining arcs are completed? what about the spawn rates for the "final" missions?
As far as the frequency of the final missions spawn, here's the problem. To get to Mars, you will need to fly to the moon and complete about 5 missions, each of which starts once a month (if you're lucky). However, in order to get to the moon, you need to interrogate special ethereals, and they will appear at least a year after the alien invasion. Even if you are ready to fly to Mars, be prepared to spend a year fulfilling a number of conditions.
If I understand you correctly, then these conditions apply to aliens, other arcs are not required
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: tr0phygh0ul on November 18, 2021, 03:31:54 pm
Quote
To get to Mars, you will need to fly to the moon and complete about 5 missions, each of which starts once a month (if you're lucky). However, in order to get to the moon, you need to interrogate special ethereals, and they will appear at least a year after the alien invasion. Even if you are ready to fly to Mars, be prepared to spend a year fulfilling a number of conditions.
Sounds a bit too grindy, especially since by the time you enter the invasion phase, you would've probably finished most of the arcs or can't be bothered to deal with minor missions or several landing/crash sites at once
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 07, 2021, 08:17:16 pm
I'm not sure if you fixed this since I snatched it, but it has come to my attention that a handobs from your mod has a defect. I have offered a fixed version.

What is incorrect? I compared the shotgun with vanilla sprites and it follows the same order (starting with pointing to the west, for 2-handed weapons).

The latest Oxce gives me errors about multiple recoverable items in Swarmid Large Corpse and Wraith Armor I think. I downgraded to OXCE 7.0 and it worked, but will old OXCE cause problems? I am asking because I remember with an old version of OXCE, safehouses did not work correctly.

I dunno, I am not getting any errors on a recent OXCE (from 13.11).

Solarius, is there any reason base facilities like the access lift, HQ etc. give mana/sanitiy recovery?

The access lift has it because it exists in every base, so denotes the minimum.

While indeed you can't have people on base without having any living quarters, and living quarters indeed have higher values, I left it in in case a new, worse living facility appears in the future.

hi, great mod, really like how not only adds stuff from other XCOM games but also paranormal and other sci-fi elements

though i have a question, is the late game grind a placeholder until the remaining arcs are completed? what about the spawn rates for the "final" missions?

Pretty much, yes. I need to redesign the Cydonian part, but for now it's mostly vanilla missions. It's not the intended design.



EDIT:
Version 2.1 has been released!

- Korean localisation added.
- 3 new Staff Inputs (by Dragor).
- New weapon: Macro Saw (sprite improved by Brain_322).
- New item: Position Marker (by Alex D).
- New HWP armors: Drone Carrier, Hovertank/Carrier (and associated drone types, Position Markers, X-Com Cybermites and X-Com Buzzers) (all by Alex D).
- New unit: Counter-Terrorist.
- New mission: EXALT search warrant (police car by Alex D).
- New maps for Urban Low: police station (by Brain_322), government office, post office.
- Some unique orbital station tiles (by Brain_322).
- New terrain additions and fixes (by Dioxine).
- Ski Resort mission has random snow terrain.
- Proper Bloodhound autopsy pic (by Brain_322).
- Hybrid agents available earlier, from alternative sources.
- Helix Psions get 15 extra armor on all sides.
- Rolled Transport Alternative and Private Transport into one research.
- New lore on the Great Factions.
- Disabled UFO Construction recovery from the Undersea City.
- Shooting at UFOs no longer decreases their crews (for lore reasons).
- Decreased Cydonian activity.
- M.A.G.M.A. Lab must be won before progressing further with this arc.
- Custom scurry sound for crawlies.
- Olympians can fly in any outfit.
- Dogs now have proper dodge.
- Ethereals have better Chem resistance.
- Power Mace is one-handed and has more reliable damage.
- Advanced Rocket Launcher takes all rocket types.
- UAC plasma weapons are slightly stronger and damage morale.
- BFG isn't destroyed in research.
- Bow arrows are 1x3, with new graphics.
- Fixed Bewildered Farmer recovery.
- Fixed Majestic 12 Clue research.
- Fixed Osiron Hacienda loot.
- UAC Portal ramps are passable.
- Battleship walls are less transparent.
- Various tile fixes.
- Minor fixes.


EDIT 2: I forgot to release the submods too. Reuploaded the mod with the submods.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 10, 2021, 10:06:05 pm
Can we revisit ammo availability on some of the early game weapons? I can get access to several 5.56 rifles through cult arms dealers but I can't buy ammo for them until I get specifically the M16 and EXALT operations. I have complete confidence that I'll find an enforcer *any day now* but it would still make more sense to unlock 5.56 clips with any of the acquisition techs for a 5.56 rifle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 11, 2021, 02:07:22 pm
Can we revisit ammo availability on some of the early game weapons? I can get access to several 5.56 rifles through cult arms dealers but I can't buy ammo for them until I get specifically the M16 and EXALT operations. I have complete confidence that I'll find an enforcer *any day now* but it would still make more sense to unlock 5.56 clips with any of the acquisition techs for a 5.56 rifle.

Are you saying that you can bug guns through cult dealers, but not ammo for them? Hmm... I'll check this stupid thing again. It's seriously over-engineered, at least for my mediocre brain.

EDIT: Maybe now it'll work good... Seriously, it's more of a design issue than a technical one. I just made it so Dagon weapon acquisition gives unlocks the 5.56 clip just like the EXALT weapon acquisition does.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: FireStarTracer on December 11, 2021, 06:46:34 pm
The thing with illegal purchases is that I'm not sure how you would differentiate that from 'legal' purchases, since it would still be purchased through the same menu in theory.    There also should be some potentail risks/downsides with that approach since its not as reliable as the 'proper' channels.

Perhaps 'illegal ammo purchases' could be put in as a form of loot boxes.   You have to research the connections (so it might be tied to certain promotions - the military adviser who has those connections is a good choice) and this adds a number of purchase option for the 'loot boxes.'   But they're not labeled as 'loot boxes' but somethign else - 'Smuggled Ammo shipment - NATO' or 'Smuggled Ammo shipment - Warsaw Pact.'     They might be more expensive than the 'normal' purchase would be, it probably takes longer too.    And there would be a element of randomness/risk to it.    There's a chance you might not get any ammo at all, or perhaps only part of the shipment.   Or you might not even get the ammo you wanted (maybe supplies were limited or the order got screwed up, or someone deceived you.   Lots of people who sell Ammo online or at gun conventions in America can and will deceive buyers and lie about their wares.) - which is all things I believe that 'ammo-based' loot boxes can kinda do (you get a certain kind of ammo as is).

Smuggled ammunition in a sense becomes 'ammo boxes' that you can buy and have less randomness to them.     I'm assuming this won't be easily broken (XCF funding is still pretty tightly constrained so you might have to juggle acquriing illegal ammo with, say, hiring more recruits or expanding your base for example.  The costs should at least reflect that sort of tradeoff.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 11, 2021, 07:08:25 pm
I think lootboxes would be too random. When you need an AK47, you want an AK47, without having to purchase 50 crates of random scrap metal until finally you get the gun. We have other mod elements for this.

The only actual feature this alternate path introduces is an alternative way to unlock certain researches. The problem was that 5.56mm was aligned with EXALT, but many such weapons are also used by Dagonites (because much of their area of influence is in NATO). So now Dagon gives you 5.56mm as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 11, 2021, 11:52:41 pm
Thanks, that's about what I thought. I just wasn't sure if it was an oversight or some bizarre design choice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: mercy on December 12, 2021, 07:40:33 pm
Illegal Trade in The X-Com Files
I have an idea:

The thing with illegal purchases is that I'm not sure how you would differentiate that from 'legal' purchases, since it would still be purchased through the same menu in theory.    There also should be some potentail risks/downsides with that approach since its not as reliable as the 'proper' channels.
[..]
I think the governments should sniff out that you are dealing on the black market with [highly] illegal goods. Then the governments should organize a raid on the XCOM-base citing laws forbidding illegal combat-drug/weapon/stuff trade.
An initially inconspicuous government gunship appears on radar: it does a few turns as if searching for something, then heads to your base to carry out a full raid. Your base location was easily spotted by the government using GPS trackers placed into those illegal shipments, which dealings of yours undercover investigators were following for some time..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: mercy on December 12, 2021, 07:44:38 pm
[..]


EDIT:
Version 2.1 has been released!
[..]
EDIT 2: I forgot to release the submods too. Reuploaded the mod with the submods.
Would you please do an update to these percentages?

Cult of Apocalypse: 90%
Men in Black: 35%
Black Sun: 10%
[classified]: 4%
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Fomka on December 12, 2021, 09:10:47 pm
What Position Markers, Drone Carriers and Counter-terrorists are about in the 2.1?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.0: We Will Be Watching
Post by: 8mono on December 13, 2021, 12:32:45 am
Juku121,

lol, thanks! :)  To be hones't I've been around real firearms my whole life and had never heard the word "accurized" before. I should have googled it and not made any assumptions.

Well I got egg on my face for this one  :-\  I do apologize, and thanks for correcting me.  ;D

Im far from a firearm expert, I believe I got that from Peace Walker's Accurized shotgun I think, if you have any other suggestions please let me know, I liked Long Barrel distinction, but I more or less took it as is from the game I think
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 13, 2021, 05:56:21 am
Illegal Trade in The X-Com Files
I have an idea:
I think the governments should sniff out that you are dealing on the black market with [highly] illegal goods. Then the governments should organize a raid on the XCOM-base citing laws forbidding illegal combat-drug/weapon/stuff trade.
An initially inconspicuous government gunship appears on radar: it does a few turns as if searching for something, then heads to your base to carry out a full raid. Your base location was easily spotted by the government using GPS trackers placed into those illegal shipments, which dealings of yours undercover investigators were following for some time..

I would really prefer this doesn't happen. I think the legal complications of buying from unauthorized arms dealers are quite well represented by the score penalty you get from the research. The score penalty is just the political capital your sponsors have to expend to deflect any uncomfortable investigations headed your way, just like they do with all those farmers you accidentally murder. Having to code in a whole new faction to execute base assaults based off that one criteria sounds like a disproportionate amount of work just to make a fun tech-tree branch off less viable.

Besides, who is raiding XCOM HQ? Interpol? The ATF?

In other news, I was just here to say how much I love the soundtrack for the Asylum mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: GreenCake on December 13, 2021, 08:32:38 am
DRAGONFLY with light turned off during night missions? That could be some modification from WORKSHOP.

Since light around your landing zone makes you a perfect target for all bad boys around the map. I understand if this done on purpose, to make night missions harder and less suited against 50+ cultists, whose basicly have big problems with night fight.

And how about workshop-modification/on-mission-button for HAMVI or VAN/other cars to turn on/off their light?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 13, 2021, 08:35:17 am
being real, I hate craft lights at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: FireStarTracer on December 13, 2021, 10:10:18 pm
I have a layman's knowledge/interest in firearms including some of the technical aspects (primarily internal and terminal ballistics) but I try not to talk about it because of how easy I can get carried away.   If anyone has a question I can *try* to answer it and/or suggest sources to look at.

As far as 'accurizing' goes it apparently is a thing according to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accurizing) FWIW.   It suggests some ways you could do it and I can think of others that may or may not work (some of them might be more hypothetical but would still be interesting.)   One of the things I'm semi-interested in since I started to dabble with modding pertains to firearms (including some energy weapons.)   There's lots of interesting features in the game engine to explore but I'm still thinking over how they might be implemented, and possibly some existing ideas in mods like X-com Files or X-Piratez might be taken further.

Illegal Trade in The X-Com Files
I have an idea:
I think the governments should sniff out that you are dealing on the black market with [highly] illegal goods. Then the governments should organize a raid on the XCOM-base citing laws forbidding illegal combat-drug/weapon/stuff trade.
An initially inconspicuous government gunship appears on radar: it does a few turns as if searching for something, then heads to your base to carry out a full raid. Your base location was easily spotted by the government using GPS trackers placed into those illegal shipments, which dealings of yours undercover investigators were following for some time..

Eh, what Solarius Scorch said makes sense and is simpler.  I just should have read it more closely the first time.   

And not really sure X-com need another possible rival out of the gate to come down on them given they already have so many challenges they face.  And I would imagine some on the council might turn a blind eye to smuggling since it helps X-com do their job.  Not everyone is against them.   I mean its not that the idea of 'Government attacks X-com' is necessarily a bad idea (I brought it up in the 'no advent' thread) but I think it is a matter of implementation.

One thing that did occur to me out of thinking about ammo lootboxes though:  Wouldn't it make more sense for the various pro-alien factions (Dagon, Red Dawn, Exalt, etc) to have ammo boxes suited to the weapons they use?  EG EXALT and Dagon use weapons that use 5.56 ammo so that might be more favored in their loot boxes.    REd Dawn would have 5.45/7.62 WP ammo, etc.   I haven't started 2.1 yet and what I did with lootboxes in 2.0 was still doing the random thing, but its just a thought.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 14, 2021, 11:39:15 am
I think the justification for that was not wanting to clutter up an already complicated system with further complexity.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: mercy on December 15, 2021, 08:57:59 pm
Eh, what Solarius Scorch said makes sense and is simpler.  I just should have read it more closely the first time.   

And not really sure X-com need another possible rival out of the gate to come down on them given they already have so many challenges they face.  And I would imagine some on the council might turn a blind eye to smuggling since it helps X-com do their job.  Not everyone is against them.   I mean its not that the idea of 'Government attacks X-com' is necessarily a bad idea (I brought it up in the 'no advent' thread) but I think it is a matter of implementation.
[..]
XCOM lore showed us there will be governments, who will completely succumb to the Alien Agenda. Look at whole continents and islands today becoming totalitarian in a way that suggests that aliens are now mass-texting the governments, what dictates to make, what tyrannical mandates to do.  So any country lost to the aliens could and should organize raids on XCOM bases.
Even governments that are in the process of being taken over could command a couple eager generals to organize Black Merc Ordinator Raids on XCOM bases citing ANY reason. They don't really need a valid reason: illegal trade would be as good an excuse as any. Or "Ooh! You are hurting our Holy Space Brothers! Die!"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 15, 2021, 09:44:34 pm
XCOM lore showed us there will be governments, who will completely succumb to the Alien Agenda. Look at whole continents and islands today becoming totalitarian in a way that suggests that aliens are now mass-texting the governments, what dictates to make, what tyrannical mandates to do.  So any country lost to the aliens could and should organize raids on XCOM bases.
Even governments that are in the process of being taken over could command a couple eager generals to organize Black Merc Ordinator Raids on XCOM bases citing ANY reason. They don't really need a valid reason: illegal trade would be as good an excuse as any. Or "Ooh! You are hurting our Holy Space Brothers! Die!"

Not really sure it's worth it just for yet another slog through bullet spewing human enemies we've fought a few dozen times already. As far as I understand the code, this would require making a whole new "Alien Race" of hostile government troops, giving them an early game Base Assault condition and then never using them again. Granted, you could reuse a lot of assets you already have, but I'd rather not beg for even more of the same early game gunfights (It's a base assault, get ready for 30 plus turns of peakaboo). Especially if it takes away time that could be spent adding more of the planned content or polishing what's already there.

Not to mention the immersion fuckery surrounding why you have an underground base prior to promotion III. Yeah, you're a side-office underfunded government agency sending out agents with Berettas and cheap suits. By the way, here's the keys to Cheyenne Mountain. First base assault shouldn't happen until it starts making sense for you to have secret underground bases with actual hangars and elevators to the surface rather than second-hand offices and rental cars.

Base assaults were always the gut check "shit just got real" moment in XCOM. Where you had to face serious campaign ending consequences if you couldn't defend what you'd rightfully stolen. Throwing them at you early game just cheapens them IMHO.

IN OTHER NEWS.

I actually just wanted to ask about the math for stun damage. Just researched the KS-23 shotgun to find its stun ammo does LESS base damage than a standard shotgun's (22 vs 25). The only other way it differs statwise was 15% more HP damage. Does HP Damage Multiplier mean a percentage of the base damage is dealt as HP instead of stun or is it dealt in *addition* to the state base damage. So a 22 damage baton round is doing 11 stun and 11 hp damage (RNG dependant, obviously) or is it 22 stun and 11 hp.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Mathel on December 16, 2021, 09:53:02 pm
I actually just wanted to ask about the math for stun damage. Just researched the KS-23 shotgun to find its stun ammo does LESS base damage than a standard shotgun's (22 vs 25). The only other way it differs statwise was 15% more HP damage. Does HP Damage Multiplier mean a percentage of the base damage is dealt as HP instead of stun or is it dealt in *addition* to the state base damage. So a 22 damage baton round is doing 11 stun and 11 hp damage (RNG dependant, obviously) or is it 22 stun and 11 hp.
In addition.
The "To Health", "To Stun", etc. are separate, and presumably stuff of STUN type defaults to To_Stun=1.00 .

To a regular human with 12 front plate hit in the chest, the baton shell will do.
0 to 44 damage. Then 12*1.25 is subtracted from it, resulting in 0 to 29. The target will take 0 to 29 stun, and 0 to 14.5 HP damage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 18, 2021, 08:16:40 am
Thanks, that's what I was wondering.


So apparently, killing downed enemies counts as a separate kill for the purpose of commendations. Got the Ice-Cold killer commendation by downing and then killing a werewolf in one burst of autofire. It was the only enemy on the map.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Fomka on December 19, 2021, 03:28:23 pm
Got the Ice-Cold killer commendation by downing and then killing a werewolf in one burst of autofire. It was the only enemy on the map.
What a lucky aim! In my experience autofired bullets do not hit a tike where an enemy fell, they fly pass it, at some height.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Marrik on December 20, 2021, 12:01:53 am
Save games from 2.0.1 are compatible with 2.1, right? Or should I restart?

I'm actually a bit further into the game than I've ever gotten previously and the cults are long-destroyed, but I kind of want to see the new EXALT mission
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 20, 2021, 05:29:12 am
What a lucky aim! In my experience autofired bullets do not hit a tile where an enemy fell, they fly pass it, at some height.

Well I was above him aiming down, so that might have had something to do with it.

I was extremely worried about getting The Thing homage mission pre-promotion III, but it turns out OICW grenades work just fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 20, 2021, 11:59:54 am
Illegal Trade in The X-Com Files
I have an idea:
I think the governments should sniff out that you are dealing on the black market with [highly] illegal goods. Then the governments should organize a raid on the XCOM-base citing laws forbidding illegal combat-drug/weapon/stuff trade.
An initially inconspicuous government gunship appears on radar: it does a few turns as if searching for something, then heads to your base to carry out a full raid. Your base location was easily spotted by the government using GPS trackers placed into those illegal shipments, which dealings of yours undercover investigators were following for some time..

Nah, governments won't do diddly squat against X-Com... The Council won't let them. If, say, the CIA finds out there's anything going on, the Council will do what it takes to bury the investigation, and then give you a slap for being careless (hence the negative event). But it won't ever get to your base before the Council itself will shut you down for incompetence.

Would you please do an update to these percentages?

Cult of Apocalypse: 90%
Men in Black: 35%
Black Sun: 10%
[classified]: 4%

I think I'll rather remove it, it's served its purpose over the years adn now I can't even remember what was supposed to go where.

What Position Markers, Drone Carriers and Counter-terrorists are about in the 2.1?

- Position markers are placeable items with a camera and a floodlight (to help monitor the battlefield);
- Drone Carriers are HWPs with the ability to create small temporary units in battle;
- Counter-terrorists are special police forces which appear in the new mission.

In other news, I was just here to say how much I love the soundtrack for the Asylum mission.

Love it or hate it, eh? :)

DRAGONFLY with light turned off during night missions? That could be some modification from WORKSHOP.

Since light around your landing zone makes you a perfect target for all bad boys around the map. I understand if this done on purpose, to make night missions harder and less suited against 50+ cultists, whose basicly have big problems with night fight.

And how about workshop-modification/on-mission-button for HAMVI or VAN/other cars to turn on/off their light?

While you could argue that such lights should be toggable, the engine doesn't allow for this.

But having a workshop project to modify a craft to have its light off is... uh... questionable.

One thing that did occur to me out of thinking about ammo lootboxes though:  Wouldn't it make more sense for the various pro-alien factions (Dagon, Red Dawn, Exalt, etc) to have ammo boxes suited to the weapons they use?

It would, but cult buildings are shared, so their loot is shared too.

Save games from 2.0.1 are compatible with 2.1, right? Or should I restart?

I'm actually a bit further into the game than I've ever gotten previously and the cults are long-destroyed, but I kind of want to see the new EXALT mission

Yeah, there shouldn't be any issues. You can even get the WIP 2.2 from GitHub, as it changes the balance a lot and.. I need testers ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Fomka on December 20, 2021, 11:15:11 pm
Thanks for the info about Position markers etc, Scorch. Great work, all contributors, looks like a technological miracle!

And it looks like Aliens have little chances to win battles now. Cunny Humans with comparatively pathetic weapons will overwhelm them with  cooperative work and better understanding of a battlefield. The latter allows to concentrate enough attacks on a target.

Recently discovered that a salvo of 8 weak incendiary grenades from Osprey dudes downs a lonely armored-to-the-teeth Gazer with ease. If it stands on its feet after the ignition, it will be low on morale and TUs.

May Aliens hope for some pumping up of their side? I dream of them being able to monitor every enemy novement inside UFOs (and was happy to see the first Turret). Thinking of a creatire with PSI-sense nailed to a ceiling at an UFO's center... Hard to implement. But maybe the Aliens will have a unit similar to the Drone Carrier (if they hasn't already), to be on par?

Dear players, I wonder, how frequent are failures in X-COM base defence missions in your plays? I do not know, how current Aliens can possibly seize any of my bases (sorry, I do not boast).

PS. Ah, the Aliens in this game will never be on par with players. We have brains, not straightforward algorithms, and a Save&Reload option. Do not take my rant on poor unwinning Aliens seriously.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: nicedayright on December 21, 2021, 08:59:22 am

While you could argue that such lights should be toggable, the engine doesn't allow for this.

But having a workshop project to modify a craft to have its light off is... uh... questionable.


Could I make the argument for removing them entirely? If the engine won't let us pick between one and the other, I'd argue it makes a lot more sense in general to *not* illuminate your own troops in a hot drop landing zone at night.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 21, 2021, 11:10:58 am
May Aliens hope for some pumping up of their side?

Yes, eventually.

Could I make the argument for removing them entirely? If the engine won't let us pick between one and the other, I'd argue it makes a lot more sense in general to *not* illuminate your own troops in a hot drop landing zone at night.

I'm considering it. No decision yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Thunderwing280 on December 22, 2021, 04:53:40 am
What's a good stun weapon to use to capture aliens? I've tried tonfa and stun rod but they just seem really iffy in reliability in stunning.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Juku121 on December 22, 2021, 10:04:30 am
Is it truly intended that alien alloys (and other similar materials) are almost always recovered at a 10% alloy/tile ratio?

Because that makes UFO recovery a rather poor source. Given the gating of titanium manufacturing behind the foundry, the relatively inflated prices of smaller projects, and the whole fiddliness of manufacturing ammo for a variety of weapons in the first place, I'm not sure what the idea is here.

Not to mention the hit to my SoD when you need a whole small-ish flying saucer to make ~300 rounds of .50 cal ammo, or worse,  ~150 rounds for a tiny spy handgun... :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 22, 2021, 11:22:13 am
Is it truly intended that alien alloys (and other similar materials) are almost always recovered at a 10% alloy/tile ratio?

Because that makes UFO recovery a rather poor source. Given the gating of titanium manufacturing behind the foundry, the relatively inflated prices of smaller projects, and the whole fiddliness of manufacturing ammo for a variety of weapons in the first place, I'm not sure what the idea is here.

Not to mention the hit to my SoD when you need a whole small-ish flying saucer to make ~300 rounds of .50 cal ammo, or worse,  ~150 rounds for a tiny spy handgun... :o

These are vanilla rules.

Balance, of course, is always an issue...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Juku121 on December 22, 2021, 01:15:01 pm
Ah, I forgot. I think I removed a lot of that limit last time I was seriously looking into things, and then retroactively wiped all memory of it having ever been any different. :D

Anyway, balance has changed. In vanilla, you could probably build everything you wanted under 1000 alloys, even if you splurged. Unless you had a hard-on for fusion balls. :P

You could expect to get that amount without too much trouble and have surplus to sell, even.

In XCF, you can spend as much on mid-game armours alone. Or aircraft, or minigun ammo, or Pike missiles. :( Not to mention all the other cool things. And UFOs aren't really all that more prevalent, the game just goes on far longer and has a lot of other mission types.


After some light testing, it might be an artifact of me fighting too many small UFOs. I'd still be happier if we got about twice as many alloys. Especially from the smaller craft, like ~5 vs 2 from the moon lander, ~30+ vs ~15 from a medium scout, 50+ from a large one, maybe less from others. 450+ from a Battleship is perhaps a little too much. But that'd require some precision tweaking. Some big bases might actually be too generous even now.


Finally, Alien Gardens might also need to be relaxed a bit. Getting one (1!) of them after a mission when a Toxigun flask also takes one to build is way too little.

All in all, I propose changing 'recoveryDividers' for Alloys, Plastics and Terramite during non-installation missions to 5-6, and Alien Gardens to about 5.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: the nomad on December 22, 2021, 04:36:45 pm
What's a good stun weapon to use to capture aliens? I've tried tonfa and stun rod but they just seem really iffy in reliability in stunning.

Knockout grenades and baton shells in my opinion. Even better than dart guns.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Juku121 on December 23, 2021, 01:29:22 pm
Why are some leader corpses (at least Sectoids and Ethereals) cheaper to sell than regular ones? The NWO guys don't want their former drinking partners' bodies? :P

Edit: And I've got to give Solarius some credit where it's due. I've tried 2.2 for a bit, and the Council-related fluff is much better explained now. I may still not personally like it, but it's hard to deny that it's them who hold all the cards while occasionally failing to capitalise on that due to infighting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Emden on January 11, 2022, 02:28:29 pm
Hello,

I would like thank developers for such great mode.

And I have a question about Helix Knight and Olympianism trainings.
I'm able to assign agents to Helix Knight training and then to Olympianism training. But I'm able to assign agents to Olympianism training and then not able to assign agents to Helix Knight training. After Olympianism training Helix Knight isn't available.
Is that correct behavior? I just wasn't able to find any answer on forum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 12, 2022, 06:52:25 pm
Hello,

I would like thank developers for such great mode.

And I have a question about Helix Knight and Olympianism trainings.
I'm able to assign agents to Helix Knight training and then to Olympianism training. But I'm able to assign agents to Olympianism training and then not able to assign agents to Helix Knight training. After Olympianism training Helix Knight isn't available.
Is that correct behavior? I just wasn't able to find any answer on forum.

Hello, and thank you!
Yes, it's a bug. I have already fixed it, and will release the next version very soon.

EDIT:

Version 2.2 has been released!

- New units: MiB Pilot (sprites based on Gaffer's recolors), Alien Cyberwatch Turret (inventory sprite by Brain_322).
- New UFOs: Contact Ship, MiB Engineering Ship.
- New missions: Old UFO Landing Site, Old UFO Crash Site, Alien/MiB Meeting.
- Overhauled MiB Base into MiB Outpost.
- New weapons: Advanced Grenade Launcher, EMP Mine (sprites by Brain_322), Gas Grenade (sprites based on Dioxine's), Gas Mine.
- New ammo: Tactical GL Grenade (GAS).
- New items: Holo-Grenade (graphics by Brain_322), Flashlight (former renamed to Mag-Lite).
- New HWP armor: Outrunner (graphics by Brain_322).
- New transformations: Dagonization, Gun Kata, Blood Boosting, and also Neoderm for dogs.
- New commendations: Infiltrator, Spelunker, Aquanaut, Spacer, Horizon Walker, Dreamwalker, Suppressor, Tasemaster.
- 8 new faces (graphics mostly by Brain_322).
- New map for Urban Low: fountain (collab with Brain_322).
- New big mapblocks for Polar and Jungle (collab with Dioxine).
- New Junkfarm/Native Urban maps (by Dioxine).
- New mountains on the globe.
- New lore articles.
- Overhauled the training system/bonuses.
- Olympians and Proteans can eat the Cake.
- High Bravery (100 or more) partially mitigates Sanity loss with gradually increasing efficiency (script by 8mono).
- Tech sharing decisions now use mutually exclusive researches.
- Tritanium Ammo is much faster to research.
- Networks require level 2 cultist.
- X-Com PAU: General Strategy requires Kiryu-Kai.
- Staff introductions are now events and give presents.
- More diverse sources of Alien Communicator, but it is harder to obtain.
- Turbolaser Shotgun has new graphics (by Brain_322), higher damage and greater E-115 cost.
- New EMP Grenade graphics (by Brain_322).
- Improved Assault Suit paperdoll (by Brain_322).
- Better shield sprites (by 8mono).
- Better Sectopod Laser Repeater sound.
- Advanced Rocket Launcher requires Optronics and not Alien Electronics.
- Glock has slightly more accurate snap shots.
- Makarov shoots slightly faster in snap shots.
- UAC SMG has bigger, but heavier clips.
- Drone Rockets weigh 10.
- Trace Flares are cheaper to make.
- Anzug also gives +5 Throwing.
- Throwing weapons are cheaper to research.
- Terror missions are bigger and with the UFO spawning on the map.
- Underwater missions Heavy Cruiser and Fleet Supply Cruiser are less common.
- Battleships have bigger crews.
- Added external turrets on Terror Ship, Troop Ship, Battleship and Cruiser.
- Added 3 Crisis Troopers to Military Anti-Monster Operation.
- Changed civilian count on some missions.
- Military Officers with pistols have melee weapons.
- Proper map for the MiB Dropship.
- MiB ship tiles reskinned (by Brain_322).
- Mountains can have roads.
- Added 30x30 blocks to some custom mapscripts.
- Smaller map on Spider Nest Underground.
- Better jungle trees (by Dioxine).
- Overhauled Hybrid/Alien Meeting, Hybrid/MiB Meeting and Hybrid Control Center Assault deployments with cleaner mechanics.
- Extra mission set for starting cults after 01.01.1999.
- Tripled the special loot on Osiron Hacienda.
- Overhauled Hybrid strings and added color variants (recolors by 8mono).
- Broken MiB armors recover directly (no manufacturing needed).
- Turrets are always visible.
- Council Commissioner is player-controlled.
- Shotgun Surgeon changed.
- Psi Capture is now optional.
- Overhauled access to the Liquidator Armor.
- Lo Wo can be captured.
- Cleaned up texture 9 terrains.
- Fixed access to Helix Knight for Proteans and Olympians.
- Fixed Heavy/Tritanium Suit hands.
- Fixed unlimited range on spider's flame attack.
- Fixed some issues with armor scripts.
- Minor fixes.

Important notes:
1. Requires the newest OXCE.
2. You may continue an older campaign, but you'll may some items and research related to higher hybrid ranks.
3. Similarly, you will also lose all Knockout Grenades and the relevant research.
4. Some weirdness is expected on old campaigns (like your staff greeting you for the first time), but nothing deal breaking.

This is probably the biggest update I have released. I really hope it works as intended, but the number of moving parts is exceedingly large. Many thanks to all the testers who used the nightly GitHub version and reported lots of issues.
Special thanks to Brain_322 for all the amazing graphics, to Meridian for the help with feature implementation, to Dioxine for a lot of creative input, 9mono for scripting, Noblebright for maintaining the Wiki, and the many members of the XCF Discord community for their continuous support.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 13, 2022, 03:38:11 pm
I tried the X com files mod right after I finished FMP and I couldn't warm up to it.
However, I didn't give it a fair chance. I am going to revisit this again as it looks amazing. I'm playing reavers harmony mod right now. then I plan on doing a TFTD but as soon as I finish, i look forward to giving this another try. It looks like an amazing mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on January 13, 2022, 07:06:08 pm
@Solarius Scorch

By the newest OXCE for X-com files v 2.2 you mean v2022-01-10 or is there a newer version ? As I tried version 2.2 X-com files for my android phone (which has OXCE v2022-01-10 installed) and for some reason I cant get it to work, fortunately version 2.1b still works fine.

And not to forget, many thanks for your (and other team members) great work on this mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Fiskun1 on January 14, 2022, 11:09:48 am
So many different changes... it's just fantastic. The author of the mod never ceases to amaze, thank you!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Fomka on January 14, 2022, 11:29:18 pm
Many thanks and respects to Solarius and all other involved in this upgrade!

Smoothly upgraded from 1.8b, almost all works well. Only lost all M83 Barret sniper rifles and ammo together with Knockout grenades. but no regrets. (rifles will be back after the replacement of _M83_ with _M82_ in savefile and the grenades are again researchable).

- Terror missions are bigger and with the UFO spawning on the map.
...
- Battleships have bigger crews.
- Added external turrets on Terror Ship, Troop Ship, Battleship and Cruiser.
An Alien boost, how nice. And I want to say that I always wondered before, where is a Terror ship on a Terror site? Now, after about 25 years, its presence is logical. So good!

- Smaller map on Spider Nest Underground.
Many thanks, it was a nightmare. The first such mission for me happened in 1998 when agents were less sturdy and had not big sanity reserves. They crawl in a big cave looking for one or two last hiding sneaky spiders while losing sanity and energy. Reloads helped.
Also many thanks for smaller Osiron ship (a change in 1.8, AFAIK), it was also a poor experience.

- Council Commissioner is player-controlled.
It will be very fun to play his mission. I missed the only mission I had with player-controlled non X-COM units — Shady Tavern with a living informant. Alas, he didn't live long.

- Lo Wo can be captured.
Erm, I managed to capture that person with tasers, as far as I remember, long ago, when the game was at 1.7 maybe. Did you make him uncapturable and then again capturable?

Important notes:
1. Requires the newest OXCE.
2. You may continue an older campaign, but you'll may (lose? missed word) some items and research related to higher hybrid ranks.
3. Similarly, you will also lose all Knockout Grenades and the relevant research.
4. Some weirdness is expected on old campaigns (like your staff greeting you for the first time), but nothing deal breaking.

This is probably the biggest update I have released. I really hope it works as intended, but the number of moving parts is exceedingly large.

Works well!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 15, 2022, 02:42:07 pm
@Solarius Scorch

By the newest OXCE for X-com files v 2.2 you mean v2022-01-10 or is there a newer version ? As I tried version 2.2 X-com files for my android phone (which has OXCE v2022-01-10 installed) and for some reason I cant get it to work, fortunately version 2.1b still works fine.

Sorry, I have no experience with playing XCF on a phone, so some other person would be more helpful.
My simplest guess is that you need to update your OXCE.

So many different changes... it's just fantastic. The author of the mod never ceases to amaze, thank you!

Thanks a lot! More changes incoming... :)

And not to forget, many thanks for your (and other team members) great work on this mod.

Many thanks and respects to Solarius and all other involved in this upgrade!

Many thanks in the name of the team! Since it was truly a team effort.

An Alien boost, how nice. And I want to say that I always wondered before, where is a Terror ship on a Terror site? Now, after about 25 years, its presence is logical. So good!

I guess in the vanilla game it's simply a suicide mission for the aliens... Maybe except the Ethereals, who probably just teleport back home using space magic or something. :) But this approach doesn't suit my lore.

Many thanks, it was a nightmare. The first such mission for me happened in 1998 when agents were less sturdy and had not big sanity reserves. They crawl in a big cave looking for one or two last hiding sneaky spiders while losing sanity and energy. Reloads helped.
Also many thanks for smaller Osiron ship (a change in 1.8, AFAIK), it was also a poor experience.

Fully agreed on both accounts. Changing the ship was a lot of work, so it took time, and the smaller spider nest was possible thanks to the new code (okay, it would be possible before that too, but too insane ruleset-wise).

Erm, I managed to capture that person with tasers, as far as I remember, long ago, when the game was at 1.7 maybe. Did you make him uncapturable and then again capturable?

Umm, maybe? I just got a report that he cannot be captured, and indeed, he was blocked from capture...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Meridian on January 15, 2022, 03:31:27 pm
By the newest OXCE for X-com files v 2.2 you mean v2022-01-10 or is there a newer version ? As I tried version 2.2 X-com files for my android phone (which has OXCE v2022-01-10 installed) and for some reason I cant get it to work, fortunately version 2.1b still works fine.

what error do you get?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on January 15, 2022, 10:50:48 pm
@Meridian OpenXcom Extended error - segmentation fault. Currently I´m using OXCE v7.4 combined with The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle.

More detailed part error report

[15-01-2022_21-40-11]   [INFO]   [SDLRenderer] Output resolution: 1604x1003
[15-01-2022_21-40-11]   [INFO]   [SDLRenderer] Offset: 263x0
[15-01-2022_21-40-11]   [INFO]   SDL reports this number of touch devices present: 1
[15-01-2022_21-40-11]   [INFO]   Loading data...
[15-01-2022_21-40-11]   [INFO]   Scanning standard mods in '/storage/emulated/0/openxcom/'...
[15-01-2022_21-40-11]   [INFO]   Scanning user mods in '/storage/emulated/0/openxcom/'...
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [WARN]   scanModDir('/storage/emulated/0/openxcom/', 'mods'): No metadata.yml in TWoTS 2_50, skipping.
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   Skipped scanning user mods in the data folder, because it's the same folder as the user folder.
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   Active mods:
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   - x-com-files v2.2
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   - x-com-resound v2.15
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   Loading begins...
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   Pre-loading rulesets...
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [INFO]   Loading vanilla resources...
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: Segmentation fault.
[15-01-2022_21-40-12]   [FATAL]   Unfortunately, no stack trace information is available
[15-01-2022_21-40-17]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: Segmentation fault.

Many thanks in advance for your help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Meridian on January 15, 2022, 11:37:35 pm
Looks like it's failing already at loading the original game files.

Does it work without the resound mod?

Does it work without any mods?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on January 15, 2022, 11:56:13 pm
Thanks for your help. OXCE has indeed problems with UFO 1 files (while UFO 2 works fine). Will try find what is wrong with them.

Edit: Problem solved (somehow between changing versions of OXCE I managed to either remove some parts of original UFO files or I just selected incomplete version of UFO 1 for new OXCE). Again many thanks for your help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on January 16, 2022, 12:10:59 am
@Solarius Scorch

Using saves from 2.1 for version 2.2 I noticed something interesting. Research titled do not share tech tritanium/alien gardens/elerium battery can be researched after I already shared that tech with corporation. If I research those technologies/reports/decisions after already sharing them, will it have any negative consequences on me ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Lysandus on January 16, 2022, 05:05:29 pm
I seem to be having a problem when activating the XFiles Names mod.

When i start the game i encounter this error:

[16-01-2022_16-25-35]   [INFO]   After load.
[16-01-2022_16-25-35]   [INFO]   Supressed Error for 'STR_XCOM_BUZZER_UNIT': This unit can be recovered (in theory), but there is no corresponding item to recover (nor any civilianRecoveryType).
[16-01-2022_16-25-35]   [INFO]   Supressed Error for 'STR_XCOM_CYBERMITE_UNIT': This unit can be recovered (in theory), but there is no corresponding item to recover (nor any civilianRecoveryType).
[16-01-2022_16-25-35]   [ERROR]   During linking rulesets of soldiers:
Error for 'STR_DOG': Wrong index 13094 for sound set BATTLE.CAT
Error for 'STR_HYBRID': Wrong index 13135 for sound set BATTLE.CAT
Error for 'STR_OLYMPIAN': Wrong index 13135 for sound set BATTLE.CAT
Error for 'STR_PROTEAN': Wrong index 13135 for sound set BATTLE.CAT
Error for 'STR_RAT': Wrong index 13208 for sound set BATTLE.CAT
Error for 'STR_SOLDIER': Wrong index 13135 for sound set BATTLE.CAT

When not activating the XFiles Names it works fine. Am i missing something here?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: the nomad on January 17, 2022, 07:52:26 pm
Holy crap. It is indeed a big update, adding things to a lot of different aspects of the game. Many thanks Scorch, and all the others contributed to it!

Working good so far. At first it gave me an error launching the game about a ruleset but it worked on second try for some reason. I was also in a Black Lotus safehouse in my latest save and it kept crashing when I ended the turn, I had to abort it but all the new missions I did are working right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Marrik on January 18, 2022, 05:27:19 am
I just started a new game with the new update, and for some reason my guys keep getting awards that make no sense, like Spacer, Aquanaut, Spelunker, etc. on "arrest the cultists" missions
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Meridian on January 18, 2022, 10:50:39 am
I just started a new game with the new update, and for some reason my guys keep getting awards that make no sense, like Spacer, Aquanaut, Spelunker, etc. on "arrest the cultists" missions

You didn't update OXCE.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: ontherun on January 18, 2022, 01:41:45 pm
Does xcomfiles include the windows UFO patch (https://openxcom.org/downloads-extras/)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Meridian on January 18, 2022, 02:18:00 pm
Does xcomfiles include the windows UFO patch (https://openxcom.org/downloads-extras/)?

no, xcomfiles doesn't contain anything that goes into the UFO folder
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: ontherun on January 18, 2022, 03:58:27 pm
all right thanks! @Solarious: might the gigant spider corpses made a some more flat on the ground? Hell i was shooting on a corpse!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: the nomad on January 18, 2022, 04:20:00 pm
Got a problem. My ex-Knockout Grenades, while vanished, still take place in inventory. Not a big problem as I will just dump the invisible bombs on the ground in a mission though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Emden on January 19, 2022, 12:09:20 pm
Hello,

thank you for such great mod and breathtaking update 2.2.

At the moment I have doubts regarding external turrets mechanics on Terror Ship, Troop Ship, Battleship and Cruiser. The enemy gets 100% map control right from the beginning of the mission, because UFO turrets fire can reach any map corner. And its even worse if mission map has flat terrain. In that case single place to cover is behind the X-Com ship.

As example. I'm in the late game now and own Avenger ship, which has a single exit ramp. The mission was landed Battleship site. Unfortunately, Avenger exit ramp was positioned in Battleships direction. And my agents were butchered by Battleship turrets. Each turret can fire 20 times per turn :o  After 30 minutes of save/load conveyor I was forced to abandon the mission.

Even for late game stage, turrets are difficult to counter. And in case of middle game stage a player can forget about Battleship, Cruiser, Terror Ship missions.

I would suggest to add Avenger more exit points or to change UFO turrets mechanic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Fomka on January 19, 2022, 09:01:55 pm
Did not encounter that turrets myself I must nevertheless say: "Good! Aliens show real firepower now!"
And some missions have to be abandoned.

PS. Aliens ingame are well equipped but do not show teamwork, therefore they do not show real firepower. X-COM shows, even with basic weaponry: when whole squad concentrates fire on one target, even an armored Gazer can be downed (with about 8 Incendiary grenades). That is what I mean with "real firepower".

PPS. Have wandered around the wiki recently. Can someone explain what AH-6 LITTLE BIRD (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_LITTLE_BIRD) helicopter can do with its 4 guns and 2 pilots? What are those guns? They have some "Type: 8", but I do not know, what does it mean (machineguns have type = 1, if I understand the wiki correctly, but type = 8 is a mistery). Where those types can be looked at, please?

PPPS. As for single exit problem of the Avenger -- did you consider using other aircraft? I was amazed seeing Skymarshall on a battlefield. It has 3 exits, two of them are with autoclosing doors and the last one, the widest, is covered. Kitsune is also very protected.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Lysandus on January 21, 2022, 09:17:45 pm
Hey, i'm new to this mod. Played for some time, but still at the beginning, and i reach a sort of road block. I get to the army monster hunt missions (or better said the monster army hunt, because the army gets completely wrecked everytime), and i'm encountering those heavily armored zombies with swords. Seems like none of my weapons hurt them, making that scenario basically unwinnable every time. What should i research in order to get some decent weapons? I don't think any of my weapons have any armor piercing capabilities.

Also, i have a more general question. All those cult apprehension missions and the random monster reports are starting to get a little old. Without spoiling too much, can someone tell me if they'll stop appearing at some point? I find it would be extremely tedious later in the game when i have a full blown alien invasion on my hands, AND random "kill 32 spiders" missions popping up all the time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Juku121 on January 21, 2022, 11:13:14 pm
Vampire Knights are something like two tiers above most other enemies at that point in the game. People have discussed the care and feeding murdering and mutilation of VKs several times. e.g. here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8748.0.html). Fire seems to be the most accessible option.

The four basic cults can and should be terminated around the time the invasion proper starts, both to progress and to avoid some nastiness. Monsters will also be cut down a lot via certain research. OTOH, many of these creepy-crawlies are like candy dispensers later on: you get free training, money from corpses/specimens, and occasionally resources (chupacabra farming :o :D ).

32 spiders are tedious though. The monotonicity of early-game missions is probably the most common complaint about the mod, especially outside the more invested fanbase here and on Discord.

My personal (partial) solution was to make all cryptids into Leeroys. Monster missions became more tense and much shorter, i.e. more fun. Can't do much about the others except hope Solarius spices things up sometime, but he's been focused on non-early game as of late.

Well, that and not play on any of the difficulties that inflate enemy counts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: ForIHaveTastedTheFungus on January 23, 2022, 12:29:42 am
Ok, so I had to make an account just to say this, but being able to research cheaper flashlight procurement made me laugh hard. Great addition, love the mod and am loving the new version!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.1: Swarm Tactics
Post by: Mr. Mister on January 24, 2022, 12:13:20 pm

While you could argue that such lights should be toggable, the engine doesn't allow for this.


You've probably given this a lot of thought alreaedy, but just in case - does the engine support remote-controlled doors? As in, if the tile (actually the tile edge° an adjacent agent has to face to open a door needs to be where the door is or not.

Because if you can make remote-controlled doors, AND doors block light, you could simply place 'light switches' inside a vehicle that operate invisible yet light-blocking doors place right on the vehicle's light sources.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 25, 2022, 11:35:24 am
@Solarius Scorch

Using saves from 2.1 for version 2.2 I noticed something interesting. Research titled do not share tech tritanium/alien gardens/elerium battery can be researched after I already shared that tech with corporation. If I research those technologies/reports/decisions after already sharing them, will it have any negative consequences on me ?

Hmm, probably nothing bad will happen. you may experience some weird logic though (like someone denouncing you for doing something you haven't done).

I seem to be having a problem when activating the XFiles Names mod.

Sorry, no idea what that mod is. Best ask the author.

Holy crap. It is indeed a big update, adding things to a lot of different aspects of the game. Many thanks Scorch, and all the others contributed to it!

;D

Working good so far. At first it gave me an error launching the game about a ruleset but it worked on second try for some reason. I was also in a Black Lotus safehouse in my latest save and it kept crashing when I ended the turn, I had to abort it but all the new missions I did are working right.

Never, ever update in battlescape. ;)

all right thanks! @Solarious: might the gigant spider corpses made a some more flat on the ground? Hell i was shooting on a corpse!!

A totally normal thing for a beginner monster hunter. ;)

I guess I could make it flatter, but I kind like it this way...

Got a problem. My ex-Knockout Grenades, while vanished, still take place in inventory. Not a big problem as I will just dump the invisible bombs on the ground in a mission though.

That's weird... In the worst case you can empty your inventory with the "remove all" button.

thank you for such great mod and breathtaking update 2.2.

You're very much welcome.

At the moment I have doubts regarding external turrets mechanics on Terror Ship, Troop Ship, Battleship and Cruiser. The enemy gets 100% map control right from the beginning of the mission, because UFO turrets fire can reach any map corner. And its even worse if mission map has flat terrain. In that case single place to cover is behind the X-Com ship.

As example. I'm in the late game now and own Avenger ship, which has a single exit ramp. The mission was landed Battleship site. Unfortunately, Avenger exit ramp was positioned in Battleships direction. And my agents were butchered by Battleship turrets. Each turret can fire 20 times per turn :o  After 30 minutes of save/load conveyor I was forced to abandon the mission.

Even for late game stage, turrets are difficult to counter. And in case of middle game stage a player can forget about Battleship, Cruiser, Terror Ship missions.

I would suggest to add Avenger more exit points or to change UFO turrets mechanic.

I am not changing the turret mechanics, because there isn't much I can do - either the turrets are there or not.
Late game Alien Terrors were kinda trivial, so I added these turrets to make them a little bit more challenging. Sure, in flat terrain the turrets are pretty powerful, but there are many ways to deal with them, starting with shrapnel rockets and ending with mind controlling some soldier...
What I will probably do is add a "light" version of Alien Terror, with a smaller alien crew and a different UFO, and make the regular terror more rare/later. We'll see.

Did not encounter that turrets myself I must nevertheless say: "Good! Aliens show real firepower now!"
And some missions have to be abandoned.

Yeah, goes without saying. ;)

PS. Aliens ingame are well equipped but do not show teamwork, therefore they do not show real firepower. X-COM shows, even with basic weaponry: when whole squad concentrates fire on one target, even an armored Gazer can be downed (with about 8 Incendiary grenades). That is what I mean with "real firepower".

Actually, I gave the aliens as much "teamwork" as possible (which means sniper/spotter). Most human enemies don't even have that!

PPS. Have wandered around the wiki recently. Can someone explain what AH-6 LITTLE BIRD (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_LITTLE_BIRD) helicopter can do with its 4 guns and 2 pilots? What are those guns? They have some "Type: 8", but I do not know, what does it mean (machineguns have type = 1, if I understand the wiki correctly, but type = 8 is a mistery). Where those types can be looked at, please?

Type 8 is for very small craft weapons which are the same as some infantry heavy weapons - for example the M-60, the RPG, etc. You liteally attach a handgun to your craft (the Little Bird or the Humvee) and use it in air combat (not ground combat, sorry lol).
And what to shoot with them? Enemy cars, convoys, helicopters...

Ok, so I had to make an account just to say this, but being able to research cheaper flashlight procurement made me laugh hard. Great addition, love the mod and am loving the new version!

Thanks, and cool nick there, Mr. Zakharov. ;)

You've probably given this a lot of thought alreaedy, but just in case - does the engine support remote-controlled doors? As in, if the tile (actually the tile edge° an adjacent agent has to face to open a door needs to be where the door is or not.

Because if you can make remote-controlled doors, AND doors block light, you could simply place 'light switches' inside a vehicle that operate invisible yet light-blocking doors place right on the vehicle's light sources.

Nope, sorry. If it was possible, I'd probably use it...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Lysandus on January 26, 2022, 04:44:48 am
Hey there. I come with another newb question. I'm still pretty much at the beginning. I've been using the HUMVEE for a while, and just now i notice that it has a weapon slot, and on the battlescape there is a visible machine gun on top of the car. Is there a way i can add a usable machine gun to the HUMVEE? In the army missions i'm seeing they have an armored car that has quite a powerful machine gun and i imagine such a thing can be very helpful in those cult outpost or base missions, where it's just my 5 guys vs a shitload of enemy troops. That mounted machine gun could make those missions a little less grueling.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 26, 2022, 10:46:24 pm
Hey there. I come with another newb question. I'm still pretty much at the beginning. I've been using the HUMVEE for a while, and just now i notice that it has a weapon slot, and on the battlescape there is a visible machine gun on top of the car. Is there a way i can add a usable machine gun to the HUMVEE? In the army missions i'm seeing they have an armored car that has quite a powerful machine gun and i imagine such a thing can be very helpful in those cult outpost or base missions, where it's just my 5 guys vs a shitload of enemy troops. That mounted machine gun could make those missions a little less grueling.


Certainly not in battle. I don't have a way for such a weapon to require a human operator, so it's a no-go. Besides, it would trivialize some missions, giving the Humvee an unintended boost.

But in the upcoming version 2.3, you will be able to put some infantry weapons in this slot, like a machine gun or the RPG, etc. To be used in vehicle combat only, of course.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on January 29, 2022, 10:42:28 am
Are there any plans regarding UFOs that crash into sea during combat ? It seems strange to me that with entire crew of ship dead due to drowning, there would be no attempts to salvage what remained of UFO. I know probably large part of UFO components should be worthless due to influence of salt water - but you should be able to at least gain alien alloys and perhaps some part of crew equipment that should be waterproof (maybe various alien tools, grenades) and of course corpses of crew.

Another thing, which probably is not that much important but still, if I shot down USO over the sea is it not possible to create assault on USO mission ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on February 01, 2022, 08:54:10 pm
I forgot to add to creators of this mod (sorry for my forgetfullness) - thank you very much for your work on this excellent mod  :).

Are there any plans regarding alien embassy and hybrid clinic missions ? I hope that they can be used in combination with MiB faction as those missions were good. Maybe alien embassy mission could be unique one time mission tied to dealing with MiB faction ?

And are there any planned research topic regarding alien plans for earth (since currently we already know what is not plan of aliens for earth - which makes current bad ending outro not very relevant) - since at least ethereal knights and grandmaster should know something ? The same thing could be done for Tleth aliens and maybe explaing why they are active after destruction of tassoth factory.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Fomka on February 02, 2022, 12:20:12 pm
Did not encounter that turrets myself I must nevertheless say: "Good! Aliens show real firepower now!"
Had encountered a battleship with alien cyberwatch turrets. It was fun to crack that nut! Used about 10 reloads and finally made it. EMP grenades helped a lot (grenade sniping must be included into the Olympics) as well as a lucky placement of my skymarshall. Lost only one unit -- lasertank -- destroyed by a single hit from a turret.

Thanks for the turrets, they add much to the gameplay.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 03, 2022, 12:51:19 pm
Are there any plans regarding UFOs that crash into sea during combat ? It seems strange to me that with entire crew of ship dead due to drowning, there would be no attempts to salvage what remained of UFO. I know probably large part of UFO components should be worthless due to influence of salt water - but you should be able to at least gain alien alloys and perhaps some part of crew equipment that should be waterproof (maybe various alien tools, grenades) and of course corpses of crew.

Not planned. I gave it lots of thought and ultimately decided that it would be an great amount of work for a disputable effect:
- Oceans would have to be replaced with water testures (they're empty now) - difficult and perhaps ugly;
- What happens with enemies shot over water? Can they survive? They have to, else looting UFOs would become trivial; but this means making undferwater variants of all enemies using flying vehicles, which is a bit too much both in terms of work and design;
- What weapons would enemies use underwater? Most of their stuff wouldn't work, so I'd have to remove it from such a deployment (and only then), and I don't know how to do this, and also give them some replacement tech (what kind???) which wouldn't appear normally (so where was it stored before the crash?).

Another thing, which probably is not that much important but still, if I shot down USO over the sea is it not possible to create assault on USO mission ?

Yes, currently it's impossible - the UFO simply disappears. But at least you get its full value in points, as opposed to 50% in a land crash (I think).

I forgot to add to creators of this mod (sorry for my forgetfullness) - thank you very much for your work on this excellent mod  :).

Glad you like it!

Are there any plans regarding alien embassy and hybrid clinic missions ? I hope that they can be used in combination with MiB faction as those missions were good. Maybe alien embassy mission could be unique one time mission tied to dealing with MiB faction ?

Not exactly; these missions were not as much removed as went to a separate mod, From the Ashes, by Finnik (still in production). But also the plot didn't fit the XCF lore, so frankly I'm glad they are gone.
But having said that, yes, there will be new missions with both MiBs and hybrids where they stir all kinds of trouble.

And are there any planned research topic regarding alien plans for earth (since currently we already know what is not plan of aliens for earth - which makes current bad ending outro not very relevant) - since at least ethereal knights and grandmaster should know something ? The same thing could be done for Tleth aliens and maybe explaing why they are active after destruction of tassoth factory.

I'm slowly adding such lore. The outro is not wrong, but I agree it can use some more details.
Once I get to working on the Cydonia arc (right now it's pretty close to vanilla), there will be more info, I think.

Had encountered a battleship with alien cyberwatch turrets. It was fun to crack that nut! Used about 10 reloads and finally made it. EMP grenades helped a lot (grenade sniping must be included into the Olympics) as well as a lucky placement of my skymarshall. Lost only one unit -- lasertank -- destroyed by a single hit from a turret.

Thanks for the turrets, they add much to the gameplay.

Really good to hear! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.2: The Inner Circle
Post by: coorta88 on February 03, 2022, 07:11:57 pm
@Solarius Scorch

Thanks for reply but I think we misunderstood each other. What I meant that if UFO crashes into sea you should be able to salvage something out of it (if you have some relevant topic researched - maybe expanded council salvage corpse which could be researched after sea guard was researched). This could be done via generated events on geo map at the end of month (if game can track which UFO and of which class crashes into sea) not as tactical mission (as you are correct that 99% percent of enemies would simply drown by the time your transport aircraft arrives and plasma/laser weapons are unsable under waves so such mission would not make much sense).
Title: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 14, 2022, 11:50:34 am
@Solarius Scorch

Thanks for reply but I think we misunderstood each other. What I meant that if UFO crashes into sea you should be able to salvage something out of it (if you have some relevant topic researched - maybe expanded council salvage corpse which could be researched after sea guard was researched). This could be done via generated events on geo map at the end of month (if game can track which UFO and of which class crashes into sea) not as tactical mission (as you are correct that 99% percent of enemies would simply drown by the time your transport aircraft arrives and plasma/laser weapons are unsable under waves so such mission would not make much sense).

I see what you mean, and it makes sense, but I really don't have any idea if this is even theoretically doable. Probably not.

EDIT: The X-com Files 2.3 has been released!

- New weapons: Alien Laser SMG (sprites by Dioxine), Forceblade, Star Pistol, Star Musket, Star Cannon (sprites by author unknown).
- New armor for dogs: Assault Gear (graphics by 8mono).
- New item: Repair Kit (scripting by 8mono).
- New units: Black Lotus Host, Black Lotus War Witch, Black Lotus Stormcloud (sprites by Brain_332), Hybrid Assault, Maid (all graphics by Dioxine), Hybrid Envoy, Osiron Tech Trooper.
- New craft: AH-6 Little Bird (graphics by Perekrylo and Dioxine).
- New UFOs: AH-1 Cobra, MI-24 Hind, UH-1B Huey, CH-47 Chinook, F-4 Phantom, MiG-17, MiG-29, Mirage 5, Angel Fighter (maps by Alex D, graphics by Dioxine).
- New missions: Cult Suppression (1 for each cult), Cult Infiltration (1 for each cult), Cult Street Fighting (1 for each cult), Cult Retaliation (1 for each cult, 1 for Golden Academy and Temple of Dagon each), Cult Assassination (1 for each cult), Cult Manor (1 for each cult, and with 3 tiers; building map by Dioxine), Temple of Dagon (with associated defense missions), Golden Academy Tower (with associated defense missions), Hybrid Embassy (with associated defense missions), Hybrid Recon, Hybrid Sky Patrol.
- Cult Apprehensions grow over time.
- Long-ranged heavy weapons can be mounted on the Humvee (by Dioxine), but it requires 2 drivers.
- Reviewed vehicle detectability.
- Skymarshall is slower.
- Basic Flight Training available earlier.
- Tritanium Foundry has more workspace.
- MiB Outposts aren't generated by alien bases.
- Alien Orbital Station frequency increased.
- Changed Fat to Boomer ratio.
- Disabled the "toxic" shade on Cyberweb Lair.
- New Urban school variant (by Dioxine).
- Modified and improved the Black Lotus HQ terrain.
- Modified parts of the Junkfarm terrain to remove any remaining similarities to URBANNATIVE.
- Hybrid Fighter renamed to Hybrid Aircar, with map changed.
- Hybrid Lander crew overhauled.
- Hybrid ships are tougher.
- Osiron Stakeout gives one Reinforced Osiron Crate.
- Changed radars tech tree.
- Removed AWACS.
- Reviewed craft radar ranges.
- Dog Cybersuit has better bark (sprite by 8mono).
- Hybrid Infiltrators have shields.
- Hybrid Supervisors have a psi attack.
- Hybrid Agents are now Hybrid Soldiers.
- Jarheads are now associated with T'leth.
- Mashinobi are no longer Jarheads, but cyborgs.
- Bio-drone's melee attack toned down.
- MiB have Anti-Camo.
- Rats can "kneel".
- All hybrids are smoke-resistant.
- Hybrids have a 50/50 gender ratio.
- Added Ninja Scrolls to Lotus HQ and manors.
- Alien Gardens are worth 1 point.
- All assault rifles and machine guns have improved armor piercing.
- Assault Suit can be repaired.
- Improved Bulletproof Coat and Toxi-Suit paperdolls (by Brain_322).
- Better Enhanced Dog Bite icon (by 8mono).
- Better Tank Mass Driver ammo graphics (by Brain_322).
- New MiB Enforcer sprites (paperdoll by XOps).
- New mushroom types in Shogg (by Nord).
- Fixed Alien Alloys recovery on downed UFO.
- Fixed bats being allowed on some missions where they shouldn't be.
- Fixed Holo-Grenades production.
- Fixed Taser Cannon range.
- Adjusted Sectopod's fire resistance.
- Fixed some Terror Ship maps.
- Fixed Spacer commendation bonus.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: _Brain322 on February 14, 2022, 01:09:06 pm
Congrats on new version release !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Hadriex on February 15, 2022, 04:29:09 pm
Damn. This and the new engine upgrades sound amazing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on February 17, 2022, 12:34:13 am
I have a fresh install of X-COM Files and for some strange reason my agents are getting a ton of commendations after every mission. They all seem to be mission-commendations like spelunker, aquanaut, dreamwalker, etc. I'm getting these on the basic cult apprehension and strange creature missions. I have some old save files that have the same issue from the new update, it's happening on every mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Meridian on February 17, 2022, 01:35:07 am
I have a fresh install of X-COM Files and for some strange reason my agents are getting a ton of commendations after every mission. They all seem to be mission-commendations like spelunker, aquanaut, dreamwalker, etc. I'm getting these on the basic cult apprehension and strange creature missions. I have some old save files that have the same issue from the new update, it's happening on every mission.

You didn't upgrade to the minimum required version of OXCE.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on February 17, 2022, 06:59:13 am
Ah of course, that's the bitch. Guess that's what I get for not updating for a year...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 17, 2022, 04:51:51 pm
Here's a small update:


2.3c:
- OICW grenade nerfed.
- New handob for the Blaster Multi-Launcher (by Kato).
- Added a missing routes file.
- Fixed rice fields illumination.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Johnny_exe on February 21, 2022, 12:50:25 pm
Hello there good people o/
Been awile since last time playing this gem (updated from 0.9.9e to 2.3 two days ago)
Have some questions:
1. Where you get Alenium Shards?
2. Why air combat become so hard - my avenger barely can take down medium ufo with blaster rockets and plasma rays. Or is it just me?
3. Why hover tanks have no night vision built in? :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Progger on February 21, 2022, 02:00:09 pm
1. Where you get Alenium Shards?
2. Why air combat become so hard - my avenger barely can take down medium ufo with blaster rockets and plasma rays. Or is it just me?

1. From random events, osiron crates, alien bases.
2. You can use up to 4 crafts in dogfight.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Johnny_exe on February 21, 2022, 03:04:01 pm
1. From random events, osiron crates, alien bases.
2. You can use up to 4 crafts in dogfight.


Oh got it thanx.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: DELETEACCOUNT on February 21, 2022, 06:57:11 pm
Schutzstaffeln Ring

--

Hi,

I started playing this over a year ago, after finally completing X-Piratez! I haven't played anything but mods for UFO for a few years now. :-)

I realise I am playing an older version - it's been a long game I don't want to risk updating it in case it breaks anything. My version is OXCE 6.9 (I think) and X-COM Files 1.7

I'm at a tricky stage. Sanity loss is so great I can rarely achieve anything on big ships or alien bases, so it's hard to capture any commanders. I've been trying for months (real time) with no success. I may get there in the end - I assume unlocking more research might give new tech to help, but it is a catch 22 as I have nothing left to research until I (presumably) catch a Commander! I have many unresearched plasma items but they require other things I don't have. So I get through each month with high scores, and have over 650,000,000 in the bank.

My question is about the Schutzstaffeln Ring. I finally beat the Syndicate. As usual after a mission I sold anything that had proved useless, so sold yet more Schutzstaffeln Rings. However, then I noticed a manufacturing option:
Syndicate Final Message Decryption
Which requires a Schutzstaffeln Ring ... Argh!

I hoped I would find another, but no luck, and it has been months now!

So, will any Syndicate missions with a ring ever reappear, or is that it? And if so, is there any kind of cheat command that could summon one? I tend to role play and avoid any form of cheating generally (restarting a brand new game when I fail, rather than resorting to a save) but in this case, with 650,000,000 in the bank, I'm sure in real life we'd be able to buy one back, or even just pay to borrow one for a day to unlock the message, then return it. So I can handle that as a one-off, since I can explain it in-world. Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 23, 2022, 08:43:04 pm
I think at this point it's best to just add it to your save.
(Not that it would prevent you from finishing the game or anything.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: DELETEACCOUNT on February 24, 2022, 09:57:51 am
I think at this point it's best to just add it to your save.
(Not that it would prevent you from finishing the game or anything.)

Many thanks - that worked. Then the research result didn't unlock anything new to research but left me thinking that something will happen in the future! :-)
I did another raid on a big ship with my best troops, but as usual more than half died or panicked (so I couldn't get them all back in the craft as others kept running away). I had stunned a different coloured waspite, but when I got back I realised it was just a Navigator and they don't give me any new research options. Must only be Leaders and Commanders I need. Something to keep working on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2022, 10:38:54 am
Many thanks - that worked. Then the research result didn't unlock anything new to research but left me thinking that something will happen in the future! :-)

Well... It should! :) (Not much, but there's a conclusion.)

I did another raid on a big ship with my best troops, but as usual more than half died or panicked (so I couldn't get them all back in the craft as others kept running away). I had stunned a different coloured waspite, but when I got back I realised it was just a Navigator and they don't give me any new research options. Must only be Leaders and Commanders I need. Something to keep working on.

Waspites are nasty.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Marrik on February 25, 2022, 08:37:08 pm
In the new version, I just got an anti-police monster operation where there are no NPCs at all on the map other than monsters. I tried retreating from the mission to make sure, and there were none. I'm using the latest version of the mod and OXCE
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: the nomad on February 25, 2022, 10:23:39 pm
With the last update I am unsure what to do at the moment. I am at October 1998, trying to understand the new military air fights mechanisms. I bought those Little Birds, one for each base, and equipped all four slots with lmgs and miniguns. However 9 out of 10 times a basic jet crashes my helis down, and for better crafts I need Promotion III. To unlock Promotion III I need to be going on missions, which these jets are not letting me. I don't wanna savescum.

I hope I won't need to build like three hangars for each base to get out of this. Because those cover so much space.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 26, 2022, 12:24:52 pm
In the new version, I just got an anti-police monster operation where there are no NPCs at all on the map other than monsters. I tried retreating from the mission to make sure, and there were none. I'm using the latest version of the mod and OXCE

Sorry, without a save I can't say mu8ch. I don't think I've changed anything regarding this mission, but I might be wrong.

In my tests everything works.

With the last update I am unsure what to do at the moment. I am at October 1998, trying to understand the new military air fights mechanisms. I bought those Little Birds, one for each base, and equipped all four slots with lmgs and miniguns. However 9 out of 10 times a basic jet crashes my helis down, and for better crafts I need Promotion III. To unlock Promotion III I need to be going on missions, which these jets are not letting me. I don't wanna savescum.

I hope I won't need to build like three hangars for each base to get out of this. Because those cover so much space.

There are multiple ways to tackle this problem, and I don't want to just spoil them here. The simplest (but not necessarily best) solution is to use a civilian road vehicle, like the van.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: shpekdeluxe on February 27, 2022, 07:46:06 pm
Hello, good people!
I decided to give this sweety(the modded game, v2.3d) a whirl. After a couple of in-game months, I started wondering why I level-up the "suppressor"-commendation so quickly, but cannot get any levels in the "takedown specialist"-one. After inspecting commendations_XCOMFILES.rul, I noticed that almost all of the triggers for "suppressor" (STR_MEDAL_SUPPRESSOR_NAME) and "takedown specialist" (STR_MEDAL_WRESTLER_NAME) are the same. To me this seems like a conflict, which will prevent one of these commendations to happen.
Am I missing something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Mathel on February 28, 2022, 08:51:52 am
Hello, good people!
I decided to give this sweety(the modded game, v2.3d) a whirl. After a couple of in-game months, I started wondering why I level-up the "suppressor"-commendation so quickly, but cannot get any levels in the "takedown specialist"-one. After inspecting commendations_XCOMFILES.rul, I noticed that almost all of the triggers for "suppressor" (STR_MEDAL_SUPPRESSOR_NAME) and "takedown specialist" (STR_MEDAL_WRESTLER_NAME) are the same. To me this seems like a conflict, which will prevent one of these commendations to happen.
Am I missing something?
It should not prevent them. Instead, it should trigger both.

Reading them, I see that Suppressor allows unarmed and certaing weapons, while Takedown Specialist only allows unarmed.
Also Suppressor is much easier even with only unarmed. By the time you get 1st level of Takedown Specialist, you also have to have at least 4th level of Suppressor. (10 takedowns)

By the time you get 10th level of Suppressor, you can have at most 5th level of Takedown Specialist. (50 takedowns)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: shpekdeluxe on March 01, 2022, 12:47:27 pm
Ok, I've tested some more, and Mathel, you were indeed right! Thanks for pointing that out!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Thunderwing280 on March 12, 2022, 03:58:25 am
Since I've updated the aliens seem to contantly run supply missions to their bases, every 3-6 ish days, intended or not?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 15, 2022, 09:35:37 am
Since I've updated the aliens seem to contantly run supply missions to their bases, every 3-6 ish days, intended or not?

I think there was absolutely no change in this regard, but I'll check.
What kind of bases? Just standard alien bases? If yes, which race?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Thunderwing280 on March 15, 2022, 07:01:26 pm
I think there was absolutely no change in this regard, but I'll check.
What kind of bases? Just standard alien bases? If yes, which race?
I think they were regular Muton bases, they've slowed down but still feels more frequent than usual.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 15, 2022, 07:51:52 pm
I think they were regular Muton bases, they've slowed down but still feels more frequent than usual.

The look the same as other bases to me. (But I could have missed something.)

It's probably RNG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: EleriumWard on March 17, 2022, 02:39:09 am
Yesterday, I was doing a Hybrid Embassy mission. Some of the enemies I encountered just happen to be the Medium Drones from Xenonauts. I had no idea that the Praetors also had their own plans for X-COM!Earth.  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 17, 2022, 12:34:48 pm
Yesterday, I was doing a Hybrid Embassy mission. Some of the enemies I encountered just happen to be the Medium Drones from Xenonauts. I had no idea that the Praetors also had their own plans for X-COM!Earth.  :P

Who knows? :)

Also, I'll take this opportunity to show some recent additions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: the nomad on March 17, 2022, 03:29:15 pm
Awesome adds!
 
And that map looks really fun to have a good battle :D.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: alexander steel wolf on March 17, 2022, 05:37:09 pm
Greetings, Solarius Scorch and team of X com files:

I am an aspiring writer, and the x com series has always been my biggest source of inspiration (for me, "Enemy unknown" and "Terror from the deep" are the best games of all time). What started as a fanfic, has become a saga that I will call "The odyssey of chaos".

I just wanted to write to thank you and the team for continuing the legacy of this great game, and for all the inspiration playing this awesome mod has given me.
I also don't want to exaggerate in praise, because if you've come this far it's because you have to be a perfectionist, and believe me I understand you (it's never enough).

I'd also like to ask, if it's not too much to ask, if you plan to include any of these things in the future:

- There will be more than one ending? (which would vary based on completed arcs).

- It will be possible to attack dimension x and conquer it?

- You will include more aliens from x com apocalypse like the megaspawns or the psimorphs?

- You have thought something like making there be 4 promotions? (the fourth promotion would be the current third). I think that blackops technology is achieved very quickly, and it is not necessary to use weapons that become obsolete very soon.

- Will there be other ways to access Cydonia, or at least make the moon arc a bit more dynamic?

- Do you plan to improve the battle of Cydonia itself (it seems to me that it is very wasted)

- Do you have plans to make an event or an arc where the aliens from xcom 1, 2 and 3 are alienated? (I think fighting sectoids, aquatoids and arthropods in the same mission would be the dream of any xcom player).

Postscript: I'm sorry if my English is very poor, it's not my native language (I'm Spanish)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 17, 2022, 08:05:18 pm
First of all, thank you very much for your kind words. Especially since I have a soft spot for fanfics.
(Though I'm definitely not a perfectionist, else I would never finish anything...;) )

To address your questions:
- I want to make multiple endings, but I'm not sure I can commit this much time. For now, I don't have even one satisfying ending, so I am focused on this. In the future, if possible, I'd like to add alternate endings where you basically switch sides and ally with some other Great Faction, which will affect the ending and also some parts of gameplay (like new/different equipment). For now it's a pipe dream though.
- Dimension X is done and I don't plan to expand it any further. We are not at war with the Micronoids right now, so the Council doesn't want to stir up shit on a new front.
- Related to the above, there is no need to add more Dimension X aliens. I mean sure, if it was very low effort, I could add more races, but it wouldn't have much impact on the game. I don't plan any adding new Dimension X missions, unless maybe some "side quests".
- There is no as fouth promotion as such, but there are some other similar thresholds later. (And I think that basic BlackOps stuff is not really that great.)
- I plan to make some more Moon and orbital missions. We'll see. As for Cydonia - not planned right now.
- I don't have a good concept for Cydonia. Suggestions would make sense.
- Multiple sides are not possible, in X-Com, sorry... (Unless you use one of them as civilians, then... sort of)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: EleriumWard on March 19, 2022, 01:51:35 pm
Just found these guys in a M.A.G.M.A. mission. I didn't know M.A.G.M.A. has some ties with the Xenonauts.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 20, 2022, 06:59:05 pm
Just found these guys in a M.A.G.M.A. mission. I didn't know M.A.G.M.A. has some ties with the Xenonauts.

TBH I don't know where it came from, it's a resource reworked from Alinare's mod... But possibly. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Juku121 on March 20, 2022, 08:34:49 pm
TBH I don't know where it came from [snip]... But possibly.
It's the basic Scimitar tank (https://xenonauts.fandom.com/wiki/Scimitar). I thought you said you modded Xenonauts ages ago?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 20, 2022, 10:43:09 pm
It's the basic Scimitar tank (https://xenonauts.fandom.com/wiki/Scimitar). I thought you said you modded Xenonauts ages ago?

I did a little, long ago. I also went to Italy, which doesn't make me a Rennaissance painter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Juku121 on March 20, 2022, 11:28:23 pm
But it does make you a tourist, and people will rightfully expect you to have some impressions when they learn of it. Even 20 years after the fact. :P

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 21, 2022, 01:14:24 pm
But it does make you a tourist, and people will rightfully expect you to have some impressions when they learn of it. Even 20 years after the fact. :P

I have responded fully with my first post.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: alexander steel wolf on March 25, 2022, 01:19:30 am
First of all, thank you very much for your kind words. Especially since I have a soft spot for fanfics.
(Though I'm definitely not a perfectionist, else I would never finish anything...;) )

To address your questions:
- I want to make multiple endings, but I'm not sure I can commit this much time. For now, I don't have even one satisfying ending, so I am focused on this. In the future, if possible, I'd like to add alternate endings where you basically switch sides and ally with some other Great Faction, which will affect the ending and also some parts of gameplay (like new/different equipment). For now it's a pipe dream though.
- Dimension X is done and I don't plan to expand it any further. We are not at war with the Micronoids right now, so the Council doesn't want to stir up shit on a new front.
- Related to the above, there is no need to add more Dimension X aliens. I mean sure, if it was very low effort, I could add more races, but it wouldn't have much impact on the game. I don't plan any adding new Dimension X missions, unless maybe some "side quests".
- There is no as fouth promotion as such, but there are some other similar thresholds later. (And I think that basic BlackOps stuff is not really that great.)
- I plan to make some more Moon and orbital missions. We'll see. As for Cydonia - not planned right now.
- I don't have a good concept for Cydonia. Suggestions would make sense.
- Multiple sides are not possible, in X-Com, sorry... (Unless you use one of them as civilians, then... sort of)

Thank you very much for the answers!

If one day I have success with my novels and can translate them into English, I will not hesitate to let you know here.

Regarding your answers, on the one hand I would have liked to see more about dimension x (I consider that x com apolypse always had the potential to have been the best of the saga, maybe one day the "openapoc" project will go ahead). And on the other hand, it's also good that not everything is as you imagine it in your head, so there is more room for surprise... (I never would have imagined seeing the demons of doom in a xcom mod).

I also don't want to "abuse" with all the suggestions I might have, I just wanted to tell you what I would do for the moon and Cydonia missions.

For the moon missions, perhaps one could "choose paths" through research. For example, you complete the first mission and then you can investigate either the chrysalis lair, or the control room. If you investigate the cocoon lair, you would no longer be able to investigate the control room (so you choose which mission you want to do). Each of these missions would have their own objectives and enemies, giving them more replayability and variety.

As the essence of this mod, in my opinion, seems to be very focused on the idea of ​​conspiracies (and more so now with the introduction of Majestic 12, illuminati, etc), I think that maybe cydonia should not be the last mission of the game . What if these aliens are the creation of, say, the syndicate? I thought of this as an option because at the end of the syndicate narrative arc, it hints that there is an even more "deeper" and influential syndicate somewhere in space (or who knows where). Even, and I know this is stretching my imagination, the "primal" syndicate could be the remains of the Nephilin or something. I don't know, maybe it's too much to curl the loop, but Cydonia as a final mission I don't finish fitting it completely into the atmosphere of this mod. What do you think? (regardless of all the amount of work that may entail).

Postscript: I hope one day we can see those multiple endings (it would be something really amazing)
I have responded fully with my first post.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Buck on March 29, 2022, 09:55:06 am
I've been taking my time in this mod and haven't killed off any of the cult factions yet. Should I restart since 1999 is right around the corner?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 29, 2022, 01:15:28 pm
I've been taking my time in this mod and haven't killed off any of the cult factions yet. Should I restart since 1999 is right around the corner?

No need to do that, just be prepared for new challenges.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: killymm on March 30, 2022, 01:12:10 am
Hey, I was wondering how to get around the Shadow of (Cult name here) events.  I've done a few runs at varying difficulties, but I've never made it past six months because this event is constantly occurring and draining all of my points away.  I ran a game on beginner yesterday and lost in two months with scores of -2500 and -1700.  I'm hitting as many missions as I can, and I'm scoring in the positive on those missions, but there's no way that I can make that many points that fast.  In fact, today I started a new game and got hit with a Shadow of Exalt event before I had met all of my starting staff.  Is there some way that I can turn down the rate at which these types of events occur, or lower the number of points they drain?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Mrvex on March 30, 2022, 02:51:50 pm
Hey, I was wondering how to get around the Shadow of (Cult name here) events.  I've done a few runs at varying difficulties, but I've never made it past six months because this event is constantly occurring and draining all of my points away.  I ran a game on beginner yesterday and lost in two months with scores of -2500 and -1700.  I'm hitting as many missions as I can, and I'm scoring in the positive on those missions, but there's no way that I can make that many points that fast.  In fact, today I started a new game and got hit with a Shadow of Exalt event before I had met all of my starting staff.  Is there some way that I can turn down the rate at which these types of events occur, or lower the number of points they drain?

This is odd because i cant remember Shadow of the Cult events at all, isnt this the Grim Ritual site, Gopniks dream, killing intend etc.. ?

Those shouldnt be draining THAT much points, let alone at once in one month in the early game that it can destroy you if you are doing well on other missions, like there is something that is missing here.
You know that NOT accepting missions does drain points ? Because such low scores so early in the game are really weird, those are "I skipped terror missions" number. Or if you accidentally researched too many archs at once and you have too many missions from different archs with massive penalties on too many of them/you cant actually play these because they are too hard for your tech level.

There is something wrong with your game, because in no way i hell you could be defeated even before meeting your basic staff

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 30, 2022, 07:53:17 pm
Shadow events only happen if you're considerably behind schedule with the cults and also do not participate in cult suppressions. They were introduced specifically to incentivise players to get of their asses and do their job as Earth defenders.

Rethink your playstyle and plan for better global coverage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: killymm on March 30, 2022, 07:54:08 pm
This is odd because i cant remember Shadow of the Cult events at all, isnt this the Grim Ritual site, Gopniks dream, killing intend etc.. ?

Those shouldnt be draining THAT much points, let alone at once in one month in the early game that it can destroy you if you are doing well on other missions, like there is something that is missing here.
You know that NOT accepting missions does drain points ? Because such low scores so early in the game are really weird, those are "I skipped terror missions" number. Or if you accidentally researched too many archs at once and you have too many missions from different archs with massive penalties on too many of them/you cant actually play these because they are too hard for your tech level.

There is something wrong with your game, because in no way i hell you could be defeated even before meeting your basic staff



In the games that I played, I did miss missions simply from not having enough cars to hit them all before they despawned, but I hit as many as I could.  I started a new game and screen grabbed each time one of these events appeared along with the in-game time and date for one in-game month.

You can find the events in the mod folder as well in {OpenXcom/mods/XComFiles/Ruleset} (Windows) file title 'events_XCOMFILES.rul'

The one for Exalt looks like this

name: STR_EXALT_SHADOW
    description: STR_EXALT_SHADOW_DESCRIPTION
    background: EXALT_BACKGROUND.SCR
    regionList: [STR_NORTH_AMERICA, STR_SOUTH_AMERICA]
    city: true
    points: -300
    timer: 20
    timerRandom: 43500
    interruptResearch: STR_EXALT_NETWORK

I'm considering just purging my PC of all things related to Open Xcom and just redownloading all of it, but before I do that I wanted to make sure that this was an anomaly and see if anybody else was experiencing something similar.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: killymm on March 30, 2022, 07:56:44 pm
Shadow events only happen if you're considerably behind schedule with the cults and also do not participate in cult suppressions. They were introduced specifically to incentivise players to get of their asses and do their job as Earth defenders.

Rethink your playstyle and plan for better global coverage.

How fast am I expected to do this exactly? I'm often getting these events one after another in rapid succession without ever getting any cult suppression missions popping up. Like, even in the images that I just posted the second and third events were both Shadow of Exalt and they occurred within three and a half hours of one another on the same day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: killymm on March 30, 2022, 08:59:16 pm
Update: I deleted everything and redownloaded it all fresh and it seems to have worked.  I'm not sure what happened exactly, but it's all good now. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 30, 2022, 09:56:44 pm
Sorry, it's too complicated to explain. :P But I'm not getting any complaints about it, so can't be too bad.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: nicedayright on April 02, 2022, 07:22:26 am
Yeah, just got one on December 31st 1996. Obviously I need to purge the files to.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: zhorov on April 04, 2022, 09:19:53 am
How fast am I expected to do this exactly? I'm often getting these events one after another in rapid succession without ever getting any cult suppression missions popping up. Like, even in the images that I just posted the second and third events were both Shadow of Exalt and they occurred within three and a half hours of one another on the same day.

Hi. I want to edit the item ZEPHYR_SERUM  from CHUPACABRA so that it gives more time, since it still needs to be taken out of my pocket and used, which also takes time. I want to change 50 to 70. How can I do this? Didn't find it anywhere.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2022, 01:21:33 pm
Hi. I want to edit the item ZEPHYR_SERUM  from CHUPACABRA so that it gives more time, since it still needs to be taken out of my pocket and used, which also takes time. I want to change 50 to 70. How can I do this? Didn't find it anywhere.

Sorry, it's some black magic script. I tried looking, but failed as well.
(fuck scripts)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: krautbernd on April 04, 2022, 03:54:49 pm
From what I can tell the associated tag name is "WM_IS_WACKY"...

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ZEPHYR_SERUM
  [...]
    tags:
      WM_IS_WACKY: 1

...and the script can be found in scripts_XCOMFILES.rul (just search for "item.getTag temp Tag.WM_IS_WACKY;", there should be only one instance).

Haven't really worked with scripts all that much, but this seems pretty straight forward:

Code: [Select]
            target.getTimeUnits temp;
            add temp 55;
            target.setTimeUnits temp;

            target.getEnergy temp;
            add temp 60;
            target.setEnergy temp;

Just change the associated values and check if it works. This is from 2.0.1 though, so Solarius might have changed some things.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: zhorov on April 04, 2022, 05:17:11 pm
From what I can tell the associated tag name is "WM_IS_WACKY"...

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ZEPHYR_SERUM
  [...]
    tags:
      WM_IS_WACKY: 1

...and the script can be found in scripts_XCOMFILES.rul (just search for "item.getTag temp Tag.WM_IS_WACKY;", there should be only one instance).

Haven't really worked with scripts all that much, but this seems pretty straight forward:

Code: [Select]
            target.getTimeUnits temp;
            add temp 55;
            target.setTimeUnits temp;

            target.getEnergy temp;
            add temp 60;
            target.setEnergy temp;

Just change the associated values and check if it works. This is from 2.0.1 though, so Solarius might have changed some things.

Thank you, it works. You are a miracle. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Bonakva on April 04, 2022, 06:48:17 pm
How do I turn off the default light on some units? It pisses me off that my units glow from the first turn like a Christmas tree...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: EleriumWard on April 04, 2022, 07:06:11 pm
Good evening. Been playing XCOM Files for a long time now and I have made some significant progress. Already launched my Lunar Satellite.

Speaking of progress, I recall seeing a progress-o-meter for a previous version. By any chance, do you also have a progress-o-meter for the latest version?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2022, 07:50:45 pm
How do I turn off the default light on some units? It pisses me off that my units glow from the first turn like a Christmas tree...

Modify the personalLight parameter on the armour.
Note that in most cases your units do not actually give enough light to count as illuminated - the light is only for the player to see them better.

Good evening. Been playing XCOM Files for a long time now and I have made some significant progress. Already launched my Lunar Satellite.

Congrats :)

Speaking of progress, I recall seeing a progress-o-meter for a previous version. By any chance, do you also have a progress-o-meter for the latest version?

I removed it because most targets were already met, and what's left is too fuzzy to gauge.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Bonakva on April 04, 2022, 07:54:19 pm
Modify the personalLight parameter on the armour.
Note that in most cases your units do not actually give enough light to count as illuminated - the light is only for the player to see them better.
OUTRUNNER shines quite well. So good that it immediately collects all the shots
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2022, 11:17:26 pm
OUTRUNNER shines quite well. So good that it immediately collects all the shots

True... Maybe I overdid it. I've been thinking it would serve as an illuminator...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: EleriumWard on April 05, 2022, 11:35:20 am
I removed it because most targets were already met, and what's left is too fuzzy to gauge.

Actually, I would like to ask about two particular factions/arcs. How far is the progress on the Shogg and Osiron? I have completed the Lizard Trap mission for the Shogg, but I still get missions involving Chtonites, spiders, and Antmen.

As for Osiron, as far as I know, I have researched all dossiers and units associated with Osiron other than the Osiron Tech Trooper, but most of the missions I have gotten are stakeouts, illegal ammo trades, haciendas, etc. Does Osiron have some kind of final mission attached to it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: zhorov on April 05, 2022, 07:08:34 pm
Hi, I started playing on the difficulty of a genius, there are more enemy units, this is the mechanics of the game, but it’s enough for me that the opponents are more accurate, etc. How to make it so that there would be no hordes of opponents, so that there would be fewer of them? In which file can this be changed?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: krautbernd on April 06, 2022, 11:50:15 am
Hi, I started playing on the difficulty of a genius, there are more enemy units, this is the mechanics of the game, but it’s enough for me that the opponents are more accurate, etc. How to make it so that there would be no hordes of opponents, so that there would be fewer of them? In which file can this be changed?

Keep in mind that the mod is not balanced for higher difficulties.

Look up the Ruleset Reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)), there are numerous settings with pertain to difficulty. As for enemy numbers you might want to have a look at the "deployment data" section.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.3: Rise of The Cultists
Post by: Bonakva on April 07, 2022, 05:17:18 am
Three reinforcements in a row on a mission with the gold tower isn't too much?
Squads appeared on all sides. I was trapped.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 07, 2022, 11:57:36 am
Actually, I would like to ask about two particular factions/arcs. How far is the progress on the Shogg and Osiron? I have completed the Lizard Trap mission for the Shogg, but I still get missions involving Chtonites, spiders, and Antmen.

Shogg is done. Of course additions may happen, but none are planned at the moment.

Osiron doesn't have an actual arc, they are just... there. Sometimes your paths cross, but you can't defeat them, because they're not a uniform organisation and new cells will always take place of old ones.

Hi, I started playing on the difficulty of a genius, there are more enemy units, this is the mechanics of the game, but it’s enough for me that the opponents are more accurate, etc. How to make it so that there would be no hordes of opponents, so that there would be fewer of them? In which file can this be changed?

Sorry, not something that can be done easily - you'd have to modify every single deployment.

Three reinforcements in a row on a mission with the gold tower isn't too much?
Squads appeared on all sides. I was trapped.

One turn after another? That's some really unfortunate rolls... Usually it doesn't go this fast.

Meanwhile, 2.4 has been released.
- New advanced agent type: Kyberos.
- New armor: Shock Armor, Kyberos only (sprites by Brain_322).
- New terrain: Arctic Outpost (collab with Brain_322 and Dioxine, URBAN40K2 tileset by Bullet Designer).
- New missions: HSD Underwater Lab (4 variants), MiB Attack on a M.A.G.M.A. Base, Hybrid Retaliation.
- New weapons: Stun Mine (collab with Silky), Mateba Autorevolver (collab with Brain_322).
- New item: Chitin.
- New units: Xarquid, Diver Scientist (2 genders).
- New countries: Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Greece, Czechia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Kenya, Colombia, Chile, Peru, Ecuador.
- New cities: Dhaka, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Lahore, Chennai, Nagoya, Hyderabad, Kuala Lumpur, Quito, Guayaquil.
- Added New Zealand mountains.
- New research: Contact Crazy Hassan Weapon Store.
- New bigobs for Skorpion, Enfield, Uzi and the Kludge (by Brain_322).
- New Ufopedia picture for the Skymarshall (by Nord).
- Distinct sprites for Scorpoid Chief (by 8mono).
- Boomers are now exclusive to missions with Vampire Knights.
- Overhauled Geoscape zones and how some missions are generated.
- Some new Urban and Urban Low maps (by CosmicAfro, additional spriting by Silky).
- New farm map (by Dioxine).
- Improved Island Urban terrain nodes.
- Tormentor is orbital flight capable.
- MiB Power Suit and Stormtrooper Armor can be looted from captives.
- Synthsuit cannot be used underwater.
- Cybermines mission grants an Alenium Shard.
- Share Elerium Explosives now uses mutually exclusive researches.
- Better slacking indicator (based on Nord's idea).
- Ufopaedia pages and proper interception pictures for MiB vessels.
- Proper Bullfrog Autopsy pic.
- Tentaculat move sound.
- Cleaner SWAT van (by Alex_D).
- Fixed Star Pistol not requiring psi training.
- Fixed Hawkeye prerequisites.
- Fixed one cave block to prevent impassable combinations.
- Fixed some borders, country areas and coastal lines.
- Fixed Toronto, Buenos Aires and Rio de Janeiro placement.
- Fixed Share Elerium Explosives Tech article not appearing.
- Minor fixes.

Note: the new countries will only appear a new campaign. (Or if you edit them manually into your save.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: EleriumWard on April 07, 2022, 02:55:06 pm
Good to hear about the update.

On a side note, I would like to ask a small question that has been in my head for a while now. At any point, have you ever considered making armors for XCOM Rats and Bats?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 07, 2022, 03:52:13 pm
On a side note, I would like to ask a small question that has been in my head for a while now. At any point, have you ever considered making armors for XCOM Rats and Bats?

Yes, at least for the rats... But I'm not completely sure how to approach this elegantly, and it's not very high on the priority list.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on April 07, 2022, 05:26:16 pm
Starting to get through a new campaign after not having played in a while, and I gotta say I'm absolutely in LOVE with these "intercepted messages" from the various factions. Really makes you feel like you're fighting a secret war, or at least the egg-heads are doing it in the background while you manage the boots on the ground.

That being said, I feel like I'm leading a group of abductors. Last three Outpost missions I fought, I kidnapped some high-ranking guy and fled under cover of smoke and darkness.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Scamps on April 08, 2022, 09:31:32 am
Are AI units meant to be always recoverable, or is there some kind of limit? Can't recover one specific unit, no idea why. Can recover other units in same base. In is listed in agent casualities, there is money and barracks space.
There is a chance that the corpse was destroyed, does it matter?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Meridian on April 08, 2022, 11:43:12 am
Note: the new countries will only appear a new campaign. (Or if you edit them manually into your save.)

I'll check what can be done about this.

Unlike regions, adding countries mid-game should be feasible to support.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 08, 2022, 03:37:20 pm
Are AI units meant to be always recoverable, or is there some kind of limit? Can't recover one specific unit, no idea why. Can recover other units in same base. In is listed in agent casualities, there is money and barracks space.
There is a chance that the corpse was destroyed, does it matter?

Yes. The "AIs" are in fact sentient crystals, so if the corpse is destroyed (or left behind), you cannot revive it. (It's not even a "revival" as such, it's simply putting a distressed, but otherwise unharmed crystal being in a new chassis.)

I'll check what can be done about this.

Unlike regions, adding countries mid-game should be feasible to support.

That would be nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Scamps on April 08, 2022, 05:40:02 pm
Cool! Had no idea that engine supports checking for corpse. Now I wonder about ghost gal revival... )
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 09, 2022, 01:44:06 pm
Well I got back to playing this after getting exhausted with XPiratez.

You can't imagine the grin I had on my face when a certain mission started and "Frontier Psychiatrist" started playing. :)

EDIT: That song is nearly 22 goddamn years old.  :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Anon011 on April 09, 2022, 09:31:00 pm
Hello, i hope its not off topic but out of curiosity what happened to old X-com Files description? The one that had approximation of arc's status eg.
Cult of Dagon arc - 100%
Men in Black arc - 10%
Etc...
I know that it was probably a rough approximation and that due to the nature of megamods even "100% complete" content constantly changes but it was still useful for somebody who wanted to know at a glance if this or that arc was finish-able.
For example im curious if Men in Black arc is finished? Or maybe
Nazis on the moon arc

Thank you in advance for answers and sorry if similar question has been asked before.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 10, 2022, 04:12:52 am
Sol, add to the game disposable grenade launchers (Faustpatron, m72 law, RPG-18 Mukha) The game lacks grenade launchers on the type of shot and forget.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 10, 2022, 08:17:00 am
Hello, i hope its not off topic but out of curiosity what happened to old X-com Files description? The one that had approximation of arc's status eg.
...
Thank you in advance for answers and sorry if similar question has been asked before.
Somebody asked that exact question on the preceeding page, and it was answered there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Mathel on April 10, 2022, 12:32:24 pm
Yes. The "AIs" are in fact sentient crystals, so if the corpse is destroyed (or left behind), you cannot revive it. (It's not even a "revival" as such, it's simply putting a distressed, but otherwise unharmed crystal being in a new chassis.)

Does this mean the engine can tell which corpse belongs to which soldier? What I mean is, say you have two Enforcers on a mission (Amethyst and Beryl). Both get destroyed and one of the corpses (A) gets blown apart by a blaster launcher.

Are you able to recorporate either of them, or only B?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Anon011 on April 10, 2022, 02:16:38 pm
Somebody asked that exact question on the preceeding page, and it was answered there.
Well that was an embarrassment
on my part that is
Thank you for answer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Mrvex on April 10, 2022, 03:36:44 pm
Does this mean the engine can tell which corpse belongs to which soldier? What I mean is, say you have two Enforcers on a mission (Amethyst and Beryl). Both get destroyed and one of the corpses (A) gets blown apart by a blaster launcher.

Are you able to recorporate either of them, or only B?

One thing you should consider is that corpses can be burned to ash, making then inrecoverable. I am not sure if 2x2 units can be, but i know individuals can be (which i guess, Enforcer would count as). This happens if they get killed by energy weapons like lasers or plasma (or possibly blaster launcher ?),
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 11, 2022, 12:20:21 am
Well I got back to playing this after getting exhausted with XPiratez.

You can't imagine the grin I had on my face when a certain mission started and "Frontier Psychiatrist" started playing. :)

EDIT: That song is nearly 22 goddamn years old.  :o

Haha, true! Using this song is my favourite bad modding accomplishment. :)

Sol, add to the game disposable grenade launchers (Faustpatron, m72 law, RPG-18 Mukha) The game lacks grenade launchers on the type of shot and forget.

OK, I'll think about it.

Does this mean the engine can tell which corpse belongs to which soldier? What I mean is, say you have two Enforcers on a mission (Amethyst and Beryl). Both get destroyed and one of the corpses (A) gets blown apart by a blaster launcher.

Are you able to recorporate either of them, or only B?

Yes, the game should know.

One thing you should consider is that corpses can be burned to ash, making then inrecoverable. I am not sure if 2x2 units can be, but i know individuals can be (which i guess, Enforcer would count as). This happens if they get killed by energy weapons like lasers or plasma (or possibly blaster launcher ?),

Or any sufficiently strong explosive.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: EleriumWard on April 11, 2022, 03:09:33 am
Haha, true! Using this song is my favourite bad modding accomplishment. :)

I agree. The song struck a chord with me the moment I listened to it in that mission, and I immediately tried to look for it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Fomka on April 11, 2022, 05:12:46 pm
Congrats on the 2.4.

What does "- Better slacking indicator (based on Nord's idea)" addition mean?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 11, 2022, 08:21:28 pm
Congrats on the 2.4.

What does "- Better slacking indicator (based on Nord's idea)" addition mean?

I just changed the text for the free scientists and engineers (in Geoscape, above the buttons).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Fomka on April 12, 2022, 01:22:57 pm
I just changed the text for the free scientists and engineers (in Geoscape, above the buttons).
Ah, I see now, thanks.
Made a screenshot of that feature, here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10464.msg145319.html#msg145319).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 12, 2022, 03:33:38 pm
Sol, why can't a synthetic suit be used underwater now? I always imagined it was a living suit...  that breathes underwater...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 12, 2022, 03:42:15 pm
Sol, why can't a synthetic suit be used underwater now? I always imagined it was a living suit...  that breathes underwater...

That was my initial idea as well, but I've been convinced that it's too "magical" - no special organs to facilitate breathing, etc.

Besides, I am slowly limiting the number of late game outfits that work underwater - they're mostly too good.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 12, 2022, 04:00:49 pm
I see, well, that's okay.

I need help on how to edit the save version 23 for 24.
More countries!!! More money for the god of money....
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 12, 2022, 04:08:48 pm
I see, well, that's okay.

I need help on how to edit the save version 23 for 24.
More countries!!! More money for the god of money....

1. Open the save in a text editor. Back up your save.
2. Open the save in a text editor. (Notepad++, VS Code, EditPad, or something like that.)
3. Find your countries section.
4. Pick some country with low donations; Iceland should be a good example. It should look something like this:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_ICELAND
    funding:
      - 38000
      - 39000
      - 42000
(...)
    activityXcom:
      - 32
      - 0
      - 0
(...)
    activityAlien:
      - 0
      - 0
      - 0
(...)

5. Copy the entire country block as seen above.
6. Rename the type to a new country you want to add (STR_ICELAND to, for example, STR_ECUADOR).
7. repeat for the rest of he new countries.

Country IDs can be found in countries_XCOMFILES.rul.

EDIT: Version 2.4.1 has been released.
- New Urban Roads block (scooter by Brain_322).
- Flash resistance on Shock Armor.
- Added missing Hybrid Assault Armor Pedia article.
- Fixed Croc Raid spawning in Antarctica.
- Fixed one zone around Hawaii.
- Fixed Avenger/Dropship cockpit (by Buscher).
- Fixed MiB Pilot corpse graphics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 12, 2022, 09:24:59 pm
No melee values for power armor
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 13, 2022, 02:02:50 pm
No melee values for power armor

No what?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zhorov on April 13, 2022, 07:22:09 pm
Hello, one more question. I want the alien invasion to start a year or two later. Not January 1, 1999, but January 1, 2000/2001. That will give time to research the basic technologies, fight the cultists normally and make the captured aliens more valuable in the beginning, since I don’t have time to research the aliens during the invasion, I need to research older technologies. I tried to change the start year of the game, it did not help. Most likely it's in the script and you can edit it. I used to see a can that gave an extra year before the invasion, but now I have not found it. Actually the question is: what needs to be edited so that the invasion occurs a year / two later?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 13, 2022, 08:58:51 pm
The starting year and the elapsed time since game start are two different things. The year you start at is mostly cosmetic, and missions are generated based on the time (i.e. months) elapsed since game start. While i have not tried either option myself, you could

a) modify the monthsPassed in your save
b) modify the entries for firstMonth/lastMonth in the missionScripts ruleset for every mission (type) you want to delay

Option a would involve a lot less editing, but will (afaik) not delay or stop any ongoing missions, and it would affect all missions. Option b would allow more granularity. Both can potentially break progression.

Like I said, I haven't tried any of these myself and I have no idea if this would accomplish what you're trying to do.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 13, 2022, 09:58:49 pm
No what?
That's what I was talking about.

Can you tell me how to add a backpack to a particular armor?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: RolandVasko on April 13, 2022, 11:27:08 pm
@Solarius Scorch - hy!, i appreciated your (and all devs, and contributors, as well too, )  hardwork,  excellent  mods!

btw. - when will you use that my idea on name, title the release, as i mentioned you recently, ?   ~~ ( There Are Things, Horacio,)  Between Earth and Heavens..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 13, 2022, 11:56:52 pm
Can you tell me how to add a backpack to a particular armor?
You don't add the backpack, you remove the items (i.e. built-in weapons) blocking the backpack slot. Check armor definitions and builtInWeapons entry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 14, 2022, 10:00:12 am
That's what I was talking about.

Aaaah, I get it now. OK, it's a legitimate complaint; I'll try to fix it.
[EDIT: fixed]

Can you tell me how to add a backpack to a particular armor?

You need to find the armour and then remove this:

Code: [Select]
    builtInWeapons:
      - INV_NULL_3X3_BACK_PACK

when will you use that my idea on name, title the release, as i mentioned you recently, ?   ~~ ( There Are Things, Horacio,)  Between Earth and Heavens..

If it fits the release, why not? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zhorov on April 14, 2022, 12:29:31 pm
Aaaah, I get it now. OK, it's a legitimate complaint; I'll try to fix it.
[EDIT: fixed]

You need to find the armour and then remove this:

Code: [Select]
    builtInWeapons:
      - INV_NULL_3X3_BACK_PACK

If it fits the release, why not? :)
Hello, do you know how to change the number of aliens/cultists? The greater the difficulty, the more units the enemy has, on the last difficulty they are just hordes, which I find not interesting, because you just get mentally tired of so many. Don't know how to fix it? What needs to be edited? They wrote to me: "Keep in mind that the mod is not balanced for higher difficulties.
Look up the Ruleset Reference, there are numerous settings with pertain to difficulty. As for enemy numbers you might want to have a look at the "deployment data" section."  But I don't understand what to do.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 14, 2022, 12:52:56 pm
Hello, do you know how to change the number of aliens/cultists? The greater the difficulty, the more units the enemy has, on the last difficulty they are just hordes, which I find not interesting, because you just get mentally tired of so many. Don't know how to fix it? What needs to be edited? They wrote to me: "Keep in mind that the mod is not balanced for higher difficulties.
Look up the Ruleset Reference, there are numerous settings with pertain to difficulty. As for enemy numbers you might want to have a look at the "deployment data" section."  But I don't understand what to do.

Question would be why you're playing on higher difficulties to begin with if you're clearly having trouble. As I've pointed out before your best bet is to check out the ruleset reference, especially the deployment data section. The settings are documented.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zhorov on April 14, 2022, 05:34:41 pm
Question would be why you're playing on higher difficulties to begin with if you're clearly having trouble. As I've pointed out before your best bet is to check out the ruleset reference, especially the deployment data section. The settings are documented.
I want more complexity, but not in quantity, but in the quality of the aliens. What would they shoot more accurately and etc. I didn't understand anything about the rules. Can you explain to me stupid what needs to be edited and in which file?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 14, 2022, 06:26:22 pm
I want more complexity, but not in quantity, but in the quality of the aliens. What would they shoot more accurately and etc. I didn't understand anything about the rules. Can you explain to me stupid what needs to be edited and in which file?

No.

As I said, check the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#Deployment_Data) - the documentation is adequate enough. There are about ~450 deployments (+ multiple alien ranks per spawn) you'd have to modify, and I have no idea which ones you're actually having issues with. The ruleset files are located in the "Ruleset" folder of the mod and are named accordingly.

If you're having trouble, play on a lower difficulty. You might also want to check how difficulty scaling applies to alien stats (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Difficulty_Levels).

If all you want are "more difficult enemies" you might want to modify the AI units (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#AI_Units_.28Aliens.2FCivilians.29) instead.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zhorov on April 14, 2022, 07:11:03 pm
No.

As I said, check the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#Deployment_Data) - the documentation is adequate enough. There are about ~450 deployments (+ multiple alien ranks per spawn) you'd have to modify, and I have no idea which ones you're actually having issues with. The ruleset files are located in the "Ruleset" folder of the mod and are named accordingly.

If you're having trouble, play on a lower difficulty. You might also want to check how difficulty scaling applies to alien stats (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Difficulty_Levels).

If all you want are "more difficult enemies" you might want to modify the AI units (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#AI_Units_.28Aliens.2FCivilians.29) instead.
I would still like to reduce the number of aliens. I don't really understand how it all works, I need examples. To understand the editing of what affects precisely the high complexity. I'm afraid to ruin everything. Can you please write an example, the difficulty is impossible, the mission is to storm the alien base, it says 50 such aliens, change it to 40. Or something like that? I really would be very grateful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 14, 2022, 08:00:08 pm
I would still like to reduce the number of aliens. I don't really understand how it all works, I need examples. To understand the editing of what affects precisely the high complexity. I'm afraid to ruin everything. Can you please write an example, the difficulty is impossible, the mission is to storm the alien base, it says 50 such aliens, change it to 40. Or something like that? I really would be very grateful.

I don't know what mission "storm the alien base" is, nor do I know which aliens you are talking about or what "impossible difficulty" is - do you mean superhuman?

As I said, check the documentation for alien deployments and check the existing ruleset files - these are literally your examples. The ruleset section I linked you to explicitly lists entries for Minimum quantity of aliens to spawn on beginner/experienced, Minimum quantity of aliens to spawn on superhuman and Delta in Quantity, i.e. random number of aliens to spawn on top of the minimum. You will find these in the AlienDeployments ruleset in the mod folder. You will probably want to modify these for all ranks of aliens spawned for that particular deployment.

Find the deplyoment you need to change and modify the entries for the number of aliens to spawn for each rank accordingly.

Again, if the game is too difficult for you simply play on a lower difficulty level. There is no simple and easy way to reduce the alien numbers without you understanding the ruleset definitions, not withstanding having to manually change hundreds of deplyoments.

EDIT:
Keep in mind that this will not change alien numbers in ongoing battlescape missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 14, 2022, 08:27:44 pm
I'd like to say something constructive, but honestly I don't have anything to add after Krautbernd.

If there's a need, we can have a separate thread for this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zhorov on April 14, 2022, 09:13:43 pm
I don't know what mission "storm the alien base" is, nor do I know which aliens you are talking about or what "impossible difficulty" is - do you mean superhuman?

As I said, check the documentation for alien deployments and check the existing ruleset files - these are literally your examples. The ruleset section I linked you to explicitly lists entries for Minimum quantity of aliens to spawn on beginner/experienced, Minimum quantity of aliens to spawn on superhuman and Delta in Quantity, i.e. random number of aliens to spawn on top of the minimum. You will find these in the AlienDeployments ruleset in the mod folder. You will probably want to modify these for all ranks of aliens spawned for that particular deployment.

Find the deplyoment you need to change and modify the entries for the number of aliens to spawn for each rank accordingly.

Again, if the game is too difficult for you simply play on a lower difficulty level. There is no simple and easy way to reduce the alien numbers without you understanding the ruleset definitions, not withstanding having to manually change hundreds of deplyoments.

EDIT:
Keep in mind that this will not change alien numbers in ongoing battlescape missions.
Thanks, you've been very helpful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Rangerh on April 15, 2022, 08:14:09 pm
I ran into a problem, but it's probably because i'm new to X-Com Files so i may not know this mod specific mechanics regarding the scoring.

So i started playing on the lowest difficulty with latest version of both the mod and OXCE, and got several missions in January 97, several "apprehension" and a few of "life form".
Here are the result from the agent that got into all of them :
(https://i.imgur.com/RGC0LRL.jpg)

In one of the apprehension mission, i lost his partner (but still managed to knock out the suspect with the agent).
The "life form" mission that ended in "defeat" was one filled with too many spikeboars, basically a "thanks but no thanks" mission and the agents retreated as fast as they could.

I missed an "apprehension" mission as several had spawned at once, so by the time my slow car have dealt with some of them, that mission disappeared.

Anyways, so far i was expecting a rather good score for this month, but :
(https://i.imgur.com/ChGoYaW.jpg)

So why did that happen ?
In other mods i would suspect there's an alien base already established , but as it's the first month of the game and i am on the lowest difficulty  i doubt it's that ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: the nomad on April 15, 2022, 08:23:13 pm
From what I understand, the monthly rating is basically the combination of positive and negative points in a month.

If you missed some missions that is already like -150 points each. And the missions you have completed give you little points by that time. Check at the debrief for score.

Also you may have had negative random events.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Rangerh on April 15, 2022, 08:34:46 pm
Ah yes ! that's the negative events , thanks i completely forgot about them.
I got several of those, though i had hoped the mission successes would have counterbalanced their nasty impact, it looks that was not the case.

-150 points for missing a mission sounds very harsh considering how it's impossible to get to them all in time with that early game slow car .
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 15, 2022, 09:03:39 pm
Well, the point is that you survived and can continue the campaign. No worries, sometimes I'm in the negative as well at this stage :)

There are some tricks to alleviate the damage, though. the most basic one: even before building a second base you can send a car to the other side of the globe and just leave it there - stationary cars don't lose fuel. This gives you a way to react quickly to distant calls. Naturally, you still need multiple hangars.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Rangerh on April 15, 2022, 09:30:12 pm
The 2nd car is a great idea to avoid missing on some missions when they're far from each other.
Thanks for this one, will be helpfull until i can get some better transport.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Mrvex on April 16, 2022, 12:05:39 pm
Can the penalty for cult aprehension be toned down considerably ? In the early game, missions that spawn alot, have no meaningful reward beyond your first for each cult to unlock the cult and requires some time before you can make this mission type go away (given things like logistics and better weapons will take priority in research).

Like it is -200 point penalty a pop so early for a mission that spawns so often is quite excessive.
Like it wouldnt be such a big deal if the reward for this mission actually would be bigger than what... 60 ? 40 ? Meaning one missed apprehencion is like 4-6 successful apprehensions (casualty less) which is really harsh.
The only early game mission that has point reward larger than this is the mass creature hunt where you face like +20 creatures, then yep, that goes above that, but you wont get many of these per month and not all of them goes perfect, without troops dead.

I opened my geoscape safe to look how many missions have spawned in 2 months this campaign runs

  STR_CIVILIAN_CAR: 3
  STR_CROP_CIRCLES: 4
  STR_CULT_APPREHENSION: 15
  STR_DEAD_CATTLE: 2
  STR_MONSTER_HUNT: 10
  STR_SOLDIER: 13
  STR_UFO: 2
  STR_UFO_UNIQUE: 3
  STR_VAN: 3

Only 15 apprehensions in 2 months

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 16, 2022, 12:45:05 pm
Can the penalty for cult aprehension be toned down considerably ? In the early game, missions that spawn alot, have no meaningful reward beyond your first for each cult to unlock the cult and requires some time before you can make this mission type go away (given things like logistics and better weapons will take priority in research).

Like it is -200 point penalty a pop so early for a mission that spawns so often is quite excessive.
Like it wouldnt be such a big deal if the reward for this mission actually would be bigger than what... 60 ? 40 ? Meaning one missed apprehencion is like 4-6 successful apprehensions (casualty less) which is really harsh.
The only early game mission that has point reward larger than this is the mass creature hunt where you face like +20 creatures, then yep, that goes above that, but you wont get many of these per month and not all of them goes perfect, without troops dead.

I opened my geoscape safe to look how many missions have spawned in 2 months this campaign runs

  STR_CIVILIAN_CAR: 3
  STR_CROP_CIRCLES: 4
  STR_CULT_APPREHENSION: 15
  STR_DEAD_CATTLE: 2
  STR_MONSTER_HUNT: 10
  STR_SOLDIER: 13
  STR_UFO: 2
  STR_UFO_UNIQUE: 3
  STR_VAN: 3

Only 15 apprehensions in 2 months


I'd support this, there is no reason for these large penalties with little to no reward. Together with unpreventable random events also giving negative points and mission the player can't even reach in time they are unecessary gameplay elements early on (which is the reason why I have removed pretty much all random events to balance some of this out).

The penalties simply aren't in line. Why is the council more concerned with letting some random mafia goon slip away than with a hybrid cloning facility churning out alien agents?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Rangerh on April 16, 2022, 05:45:52 pm
Just got one of those apprehension mission and after tazing the target to capture him alive, and without any of my agent hurt ... here is the score :

(https://i.imgur.com/uhER8SW.jpg)

And if i look in the ruleset for this kind of mission :
despawnPenalty: 200
abortPenalty: 150

And indeed that sounds overly harsh considering how many of those missions you then would have to successfully complete to counter the direct score loss.
Maybe an increase in the score reward instead of lowering the penalty could balance things better ?

Though fortunately since i am using 2 cars i haven't missed a single of those missions despite them popping up a lot, allowing me to get 2 months in a row with positive score despite the random events.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 16, 2022, 06:01:15 pm
Maybe an increase in the score reward instead of lowering the penalty could balance things better ?
How would this balance things considering that other missions have (much) less of a penalty? There's simply no adequate reason as to why these mission should have such a high penalty, especially early on. Increasing the score for recovered enemies would, if anything, further unbalanced things down the line. Just reduce the penalty down to something halfway sane that's in line with later missions. Why is losing track of a single mafia goon more of a setback than losing track of a hybrid cloning facility?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: the nomad on April 16, 2022, 06:58:21 pm
I think penalties do make sense realistically. Just like in real life, your task is set, and you have a boss. The Council already thinks your organization is a joke. Thus if you don't do your job, if you can't even catch a basic suspect then they will give you huge penalties. And when you do your job - well, what do you want a medal? It is just one suspect. Like in real life you'll be fired if you can't do your job but get paid little if you do it lol. I'm writing half-serious but it does make sense in my mind.

However about the balance and logic of penalties in relation to other ones, I don't know. I have no complaints personally.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 16, 2022, 07:36:24 pm
I think penalties do make sense realistically. Just like in real life, your task is set, and you have a boss. The Council already thinks your organization is a joke. Thus if you don't do your job, if you can't even catch a basic suspect then they will give you huge penalties. And when you do your job - well, what do you want a medal? It is just one suspect. Like in real life you'll be fired if you can't do your job but get paid little if you do it lol. I'm writing half-serious but it does make sense in my mind.

However about the balance and logic of penalties in relation to other ones, I don't know. I have no complaints personally.
I might have missed something, but is anybody arguing that there should be no penalties? My point is that the penalties are kind of all over the place. Failing to tract down a cult goon gives a penalty of -200, while failing to investigate a Deep One village gives -5.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: the nomad on April 16, 2022, 08:53:59 pm
You misunderstood, I didn't say you said there should be no penalties. It is normal for the penalty to be huge especially at the beginning, that is what I am saying, because X-Com is new and Council doesn't want it to go on. Quoting myself "..basic suspect then they will give you huge penalties". First sentence may be missing some wordings though.

Comparatively penalties seem indeed all over the place but it is fine imo. Later on terror missions have huge penalties which is obvious because civilians are dying, if you don't protect a Council VIP it has huge penalties because they are paying you. League Apprehension has considerate penalty iirc because they'll expose what's going on. Root of All Evil which is very tough has very little penalty because no civilian is in danger etc. I have no idea if Scorch's reasoning is the same of course but penalty amounts click in my mind.

Maybe you are right just my pov.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Mrvex on April 16, 2022, 09:50:20 pm
You misunderstood, I didn't say you said there should be no penalties. It is normal for the penalty to be huge especially at the beginning, that is what I am saying, because X-Com is new and Council doesn't want it to go on. Quoting myself "..basic suspect then they will give you huge penalties". First sentence may be missing some wordings though.



There is a big chunk of problems with missions that :
1) Spawn often
2) Have large penalty
3) Are in early game where you dont have many sources of points
4) Itself are pointless beyond your first cultists per cult, for dossiders you will get boatloads of the same cultists you get from doing these missions from every anti cult mission from then on given they will often surrender once you kill most of their friends or your men will stabilize those on the ground and nick them and off to the "playground" of your inteligence officer.
5) Themselves give crap rewards, the only good thing you get from these are weapons and most of the cultists here are armed with crap weapons or weapons you can buy anyway, the only exception being Red Dawn which can give you some early assault rifles.

For this reason i just started cheating victory on this mission once i beat it twice for each cult and that was BEFORE i got rubber shells for shotgun.

Like my biggest problem is simply that are not enough other sources of points so early in the game and that it spawns so much.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Rangerh on April 17, 2022, 08:40:36 pm
The "get a 2nd car" was really the best early game advice for a "x-com files" beginner, what a difference it made in my monthly score despite the random events.

I then added a 3rd hangar to my base to make a van (as it can transport 4 agents) for bigger missions that aren't too far from my base (as the van while having long range is really slow, so forget about reaching a mission location in the other side of the world before it disappear) so there's simply no way i could have a disappearing mission anymore.


This first april i reached a very good score, but i don't know why exactly (considering how low positive score you get from those apprehension and life form mission)
Though i got an undercover (in work suit) "capture the leader" mission but unfortunately my crowbars killed that leader (without much choice as he and his goons were all armed so i had not time to try to knock him out with how bad all the agents are at melee at that point of the game) so it probably didn't scored as good as it could have.
I think i probably got a positive random event, but i doubt it was a big positive score.
Maybe all the researches and interrogation are increasing the score like that ?


(https://i.imgur.com/scGStJv.png)

edit : after checking more closely it seems "life forms" mission score more than 100 points each at least, i haven't done such mission that ended with a capture only in killing the monster(s) . So looks like they're very good missions for the scoring.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: the nomad on April 18, 2022, 01:21:25 am
Yes, the research projects do give scores when completed. I don't know how much though, or if various projects give different scores.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2022, 11:56:19 am
Can the penalty for cult aprehension be toned down considerably ?

No, since the easier a mission is, the more penalized it is if you skip it. And these are the easiest missions.

I could rescale all missions, but haha, no :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 18, 2022, 01:04:51 pm
No, since the easier a mission is, the more penalized it is if you skip it. And these are the easiest missions.

I could rescale all missions, but haha, no :)
So terror missions are among the easiest in the game then and the MIB outpost is basically a cakewalk? And preventing a bank robbery by the assassin clans is as easy as aprehending a lone cult goon? What about Natasha's hideout - do you consider that mission more or less difficult than shooting some spiders in the woods? How are the zombie catacombs and vampire castle even comparable - or for that matter easier to tackle than raiding a deep one village? etc.

"the easier a mission is, the more penalized it is if you skip it"?
Solarius, no offense, but that statement is simply wrong. From what I can tell the difficulty of a mission really hasn't all that much to do with how penalized it is. That might be your intention, but looking at the actual penalties your intention and reality are two different things. Even setting terror missions and other base/story missions aside the penalties don't really line up and seem kind of arbitrary in parts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Mrvex on April 18, 2022, 02:10:48 pm
No, since the easier a mission is, the more penalized it is if you skip it. And these are the easiest missions.

I could rescale all missions, but haha, no :)

Oh great, fine i will do it myself for my playtime and my sanity, having one skipped mission for any reason (wounded men, your vehicles having other missions) have penalty of 15-20 succesful missions of the same type is completely unreasonable game design.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2022, 03:31:03 pm
This is getting ridiculous. Feel free to not play if you don't like it, I have better things to do than justify every goddamn choice all the time. Stop whining and deal with it, or go the hell away.

There is a difference between feedback and whining. And this is 100% whining. (Combined with being a PITA - since obviously my statement of penalty vs. mission difficulty was related to the cult arcs and not the entire mod.)

I play this too, you know? And I'm not even a good player, I know that. Stop trying to sell me BS about my own game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 18, 2022, 06:20:54 pm
What happens if you let the reptiloids put up a terraforming tower? Just the impact on the bill?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 18, 2022, 07:56:07 pm
What happens if you let the reptiloids put up a terraforming tower? Just the impact on the bill?

Yes; I had some big plans for the Reptoid arc, but ultimately I decided that it would detract way too much from the base theme, so their missions are just a slap on the wrist. I personally think it's good enough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: alexander steel wolf on April 19, 2022, 01:58:28 am
Is it possible that there are "positive" penalties in open x com? I explain:

Right now ignoring a MIB meeting aliens has a pretty high penalty, could it be implemented that if the player ignores it they receive, for example, 100 positive points?

I say this because it is assumed that at least part of the council does not want you to interfere in the affairs of MIB. That positive score for not attending that mission would be like accepting a "bribe", and in a way it would represent a moral decision (the council is supposed to keep up appearances, so it could not arbitrarily expel x-com)

If you ignore the advice and complete the mission you receive the penalty (as if you canceled a critical mission). Of course, doing the mission would have the benefit for the player to have the possibility of unlocking new investigations that they would not otherwise be able to. In this way, the player would have to manage the monthly score with respect to this type of "ethical" missions.

I don't know if it could, or if you think it's a good idea, but I think it could be a good addition to the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 21, 2022, 01:21:43 pm
I am not sure it would work, but probably yes.

I understand what effect you're going for. Lack of an actual diplomacy system makes such things problematic. What happens remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 23, 2022, 03:12:50 am
Sol, maybe we should make the hangars roomy or small hangars in 1 cell? Very strange that 1 car takes a hangar for the plane. I understand that the game convention, but still...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: JustTheDude/CABSHEP on April 23, 2022, 05:20:42 am
Sol, maybe we should make the hangars roomy or small hangars in 1 cell? Very strange that 1 car takes a hangar for the plane. I understand that the game convention, but still...

Technically its not even one car sitting in a hangar, because agents travel via public (and later) private civilian transport (planes) and then they rent a car to their destination.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 23, 2022, 09:05:52 am
OK, I have to ask if I'm playing this game wrong.

I'd gotten to August 1999 and had a negative score leading to a warning not to do it again the next month. But there were so many missions coming up, more than I had available craft. Frankly a lot of missions were getting kinda boring so I wanted to skip yet another strange life form, yet I was missing so many missions due to the frequency I felt I had to do as much as I could. I had too much research to do and it was taking so damn long that I wanted the game to just ease up for a bit!

So at the end of that month I did a little experiment and simply did research in September, no missions at all. I knew I was gonna fail but I felt like I wasn't going to avoid it even if I tried really hard, so I was curious...

(https://i.imgur.com/xwFXVTm.png)

Is this... expected? This seems way too negative even for not doing anything in a single month.

Anyway, now I gotta track now the procedure for enabling debug mod and resetting my score. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 23, 2022, 01:53:37 pm
OK, I have to ask if I'm playing this game wrong.

I'd gotten to August 1999 and had a negative score leading to a warning not to do it again the next month. But there were so many missions coming up, more than I had available craft. Frankly a lot of missions were getting kinda boring so I wanted to skip yet another strange life form, yet I was missing so many missions due to the frequency I felt I had to do as much as I could. I had too much research to do and it was taking so damn long that I wanted the game to just ease up for a bit!

So at the end of that month I did a little experiment and simply did research in September, no missions at all. I knew I was gonna fail but I felt like I wasn't going to avoid it even if I tried really hard, so I was curious...

(https://i.imgur.com/xwFXVTm.png)

Is this... expected? This seems way too negative even for not doing anything in a single month.

Working as intended if I understand Solarius correctly, the player is supposed to get punished for skipping repetetive and pointless missions. Even more so the easier they are, not mention random negative events that the player has no way of avoiding or preventing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, now I gotta track now the procedure for enabling debug mod and resetting my score. :)
No need for debug mode, you can simply edit the save.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 23, 2022, 03:23:39 pm
No need for debug mode, you can simply edit the save.
I haven't worked out a reliable method for doing so, since the rating is an attribute derived from several other values. People just say to enable debug mode, then Ctrl-D and Ctrl-6 to reset all your problems away.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 23, 2022, 03:37:15 pm
I haven't worked out a reliable method for doing so, since the rating is an attribute derived from several other values. People just say to enable debug mode, then Ctrl-D and Ctrl-6 to reset all your problems away.
My bad, actually adjusting the rating is indeed not straight forward. You can however reset the warning.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: BoToJu on April 24, 2022, 12:45:49 pm
Hi,

having an error in my current playthrough. Attached the save file. Just let the upcomming mission start. Meanwhile i'll try to edit the save file to fix it myself. I think it's a faulty map.

Anyway ... great mod Solarius!

EDIT: Loaded a previous gamestate. Now it's working. I think now another map is choosen for the mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 24, 2022, 02:42:51 pm
Save contains:

Code: [Select]
        customSoldierDeployment:
          1:
            -
              - 3
              - 4
              - 0
            - 7
          2:
            -
              - 5
              - 2
              - 0
            - 0
          3:
            -
              - 6
              - 4
              - 0
            - 1
          4:
            -
              - 3
              - 5
              - 0
            - 5
          5:
            -
              - 6
              - 5
              - 0
            - 3

No idea why that would be in there, but I guess it crashes the map generator because the positions are invalid for the map since the HUMVEE doesn't spawn. Temporarily assigning the soldiers to other verhicles (all of them) and then assigning them to the HUMVEE removes the section and prevents the crash.

@Meridian I haven't messed around we the new deployment/map/whater viewer feature that was recently implemented, but I guess this has something to do with it? Might wanna have a look at this becasue I can't tell if this is intended behaviour.

Also I think both this and the previous post belong in the bug thread, maybe somebody can move them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Meridian on April 24, 2022, 03:01:54 pm
No idea why that would be in there, but I guess it crashes the map generator because the positions are invalid for the map since the HUMVEE doesn't spawn. Temporarily assigning the soldiers to other verhicles (all of them) and then assigning them to the HUMVEE removes the section and prevents the crash.

Just adding 1 soldier to HUMVEE (or removing 1 and then adding him back) already removes the saved positions.

@Meridian I haven't messed around we the new deployment/map/whater viewer feature that was recently implemented, but I guess this has something to do with it? Might wanna have a look at this becasue I can't tell if this is intended behaviour.

Yes, the case where a craft doesn't spawn is probably not handled.

I'll fix it soon-ish.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 24, 2022, 03:11:45 pm
Just adding 1 soldier to HUMVEE (or removing 1 and then adding him back) already removes the saved positions.
Good catch, I could have sworn I tried that. Good to know it's easy to fix if it does crop up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Meridian on April 24, 2022, 03:27:54 pm
Turns out the craft is deployed... it's just that the craft is modded/overridden to look like a house  :-\

Don't know what to do about it, yet...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 24, 2022, 03:36:14 pm
I don't know of the top of my head how all those deployment/map generation mechanics interact or work. Would this be something that Solarius would be able to fix mod-side? I vaguely remember that were issues with "randomized" deployment on the council member defense mission as well, no idea if this related in any way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Meridian on April 24, 2022, 04:27:23 pm
Looks like using a house instead of a craft is intended in this case.

And even if it wasn't, the crash could happen also if a craft was replaced by a different craft (see `craftName` field in the map script ruleset).

I was able to fix/prevent it at the end: https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commit/a680d38c8e92f11a0fcbb950e6f93cd52945a558
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 24, 2022, 07:37:48 pm
Sol, I discovered the UNEXCOM mod. Some of the weapons have amazing tracers. What a beautiful thing that is. Please implement something like that in your mod. These tracers are amazing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 25, 2022, 09:29:32 am
I did a little bit more experimentation as to why I had such issues with a large negative rating. Using the debug mode I powered on quickly until about April 1999. In this month I suddenly got a LOT of UFO activity, multiple UFO craft visibly flying around. Once this happened my rating started dropping extremely quickly. I doubt there would be any legitimate way of dealing with that much activity but it was clearly scaring everyone such that it destroyed the month.

I'm not sure what one is supposed to do in this case. Maybe by this point you're supposed to have a certain type of craft that can shoot them down, but nothing I had would even get to the appropriate range. Of course the UFOs are not always alien and are sometimes jets or other human craft, but still.

EDIT: Clearly I'm missing a game mechanic or I'm a terrible player. I'm blatantly cheating now but purely because it's impossible otherwise. I'm in May now and doing every single available mission perfectly (mostly via stunning all enemies via Ctrl-J) and yet my rating is severely in the negatives. I'm gonna assume the aliens are doing something major outside of my view but I don't have any idea where. This game is brutal. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 25, 2022, 04:51:13 pm
Let me see the save
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on April 25, 2022, 06:36:39 pm
Yes, upload the save please, I'd like to have a look at this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 27, 2022, 04:45:05 am
OK, savegame for the beginning of June attached. I suspect it's another situation which if I do what I think is OK, the UFOs are gonna be wreaking havoc regardless.

Yes it's horribly cheated (look at those funds!), but I'm mostly just powering through because I'm curious how the research progresses. I already know I'm not good enough to beat it legitimately, but maybe that'll come in time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 27, 2022, 08:54:05 pm
Subjective.
From what I see, you spend too much time on secondary technology. It's much more advantageous to have 10 scientists for 1 technology.
You could have gone into promotion 3 a long time ago. It's only 1 technology.
Alloy research unlocks new armor that makes it much easier to fight people.
I don't understand why you don't use OSPREY or dragonfly. More soldiers = more damage, much easier to control territory.
The warehouse is full of unnecessary stuff. Obsolete and weak weapons. Also, the cells are full of people who are not useful. All of this can and should be sold.
After any mission, you can automatically sell unnecessary things, some missions allow you to earn over 500000 just selling junk. With this money to build new bases and cover new territories.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 28, 2022, 02:55:43 am
Well obviously with original XCOM you'd stack multiple scientists on research, but there's just so damn much research in X-Com files (and XPiratez) that it seems counter productive especially when you're not always specifically aware of what's important and what's not, so I just research as much as I can simultaneously. I know you can middle-click for the tech tree to guide your research path, but there's only so much info that unless you've played the game enough times, you won't know specifically what's actually important and what's not.

The reason I avoid craft like the osprey/dragonfly is that their range is just too damn low. I'm a one-base guy (which at this point seems like a liability), I can't reach anything before I run out of fuel.

It's been said that a major issue of XCOM back in the day was that there was no real tutorial, you'd just learn how to play through trial and error. That's still the case, but the expectation that modern mods appear to have is that players have learnt everything by now. I haven't, but I'm a little bored of vanilla XCOM hence I mess around with these mods. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 28, 2022, 07:11:51 am
It is counterproductive to explore everything with 1 scientist. You're wasting a lot more time and stalling yourself in the walkthrough.
Again, the vast majority of technology and research works on immersion. They don't globally change anything or affect gameplay.
Saul has done a great job with research chains.
Everything is quite logical and intuitive.
In order to go on a branch of cults enough to study 1 time each of the cultists. Conventionally, captured a follower = learned about the cult, opened the network, flew to a small base and captured the leader = learned about the HQ, cleared the HQ = destroyed the cult.
As you go through the cult branch, you get 2nd and 3rd promotions. And that's good weapons, armor, and transports. Re-learning cultists just unlocks lore or weapons that don't compare to the one you get from the promotions.
You want better weapons and armor study alien technology (engineers and leaders, some medics and navigators). Alloys = armor. Elerium = laser weapons. Alloys and Elerium new transports and fighters.
The aliens have some useful secondary technologies, which will cause you to have to capture and learn more than 1 time. But then again most minor technologies just give you some food for thought.
All global technologies can be obtained by interrogating each of the enemies once. Extra interrogation = nice bonuses.
You can set up budget bases as outposts without hangars with an intelligence center and/or bio labs (total of 10 scientists).
Installing the base 1000
biolab 750
Intelligence Center 750
Prison cells 120
Animal cages 100
Living quarters 400
Storage room 150
Total 3.270.000 or 2.520.000 (1 lab)
Lifting money. That's 2-3 forward cult bases or 5-6 outposts.
Later on, convert into a full-fledged base with a strike force, fighters, labs, and alien containment.
What about osprey and other transports is very wrong. Without cheats and abuse of the cult HQ is very hard to take, let alone attack alien bases and ships. You will lose simply because of the density of enemy fire. That's what extra bases are for, covering new territories.

I completely understand your interest in exploring and seeing all the content. I am the same way. I love and practice reading ufopedia...
But in my opinion fundamentally you have 2 mistakes.
1. it's not a willingness at the right moment to research a really important technology with all your powers, which will give a breakthrough to the whole game
2. the lack of new bases. New bases have a complex effect on gameplay. More scientists, faster deployment of troops, more soldiers in combat, higher chance of seeing a UFO and then shooting it down (Early fighters don't fly all over the globe...)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 28, 2022, 08:02:27 am
OK I guess I better get the basics under control first before trying a proper game. Thanks for the tips!

BTW, it's a guilty pleasure of mine in regular XCOM to try to learn all research if only because I want to get as close the research amount to 100% as possible. That's... proving rather difficult in X-Com Files/Xpiratez.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 28, 2022, 08:18:05 am
I understand...
I tried to pass Xpiratez several times.
But every time I quit at 40-60%. Too much content. Don't have that much free time...

Sadly or happily, you'll never see 100%. Xpiratez is full of mutually exclusive research. Probably somewhere between 70-80% at most...
Well unlike Xpiratez here you can see 99%))
There are a couple of mutually exclusive studies in the game.

Huh, and five years ago I discovered openxcom through FMP...
And then I saw The X-Com Files, and even later Xpiratez.
Xpiratez I never finished it, though I keep trying every half a year...
The X-Com Files is the golden mean for me.
I insanely like the beginning in these 2 mods, very exciting to watch the development of a small community into something larger, interest disappears with the growth of power, the game turns into a vanilla, with the typical shooting down and sweeping UFOs and bases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 28, 2022, 09:15:28 am
For the sake of interest, I sold all the junk in your save (obsolete weapons, researched and useless items, corpses, prisoners from which there is no benefit). Left only current at the time of your game weapons and items that require research and need in production. The result is almost 5.500.000 income
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 28, 2022, 09:53:49 am
I'm gonna do the right thing and just start again and try playing legit. I worry it's gonna be like XPiratez where I get up to a point and just lose interest, but if I just accept that it might take a very long time then it's OK.

The problem with X-Com Files/XPiratez is that they both have regular/semi-regular updates. There are ways to preserve save games even when updated, but I do like the updates and generally start new playthroughs after an update just to see what's new. No wonder I can't finish them. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on April 28, 2022, 12:11:39 pm
I don't know how helpful this will be to you, but a couple of tips nonetheless.
The structure of the base:
Three hangars at the top.
A corridor in the form of an elevator at the far left or right wall, a corridor in the form of a warehouse (during the battle, the warehouse has a good arrangement of doors) and then the rest of the base. During an attack on the base, enemies will spawn in the hangars and the elevator. You get a corridor of death, which is convenient to defend.
Do not be afraid to sell plasma weapons, they will not be available to you for a long time, and the money is good.
Top weapons in my opinion:
glock18 (starter weapon with high DPM)->mp5 (great transition weapon)->BlackOps SMG (snap x3 imba)
stayer aug/g36 (good accuracy, snap 20 cells, ignore armor)
BlackOps Rifle (good weapon for beginners, snap 20 cells, ignore armor)
BlackOps Smart Rifle (good weapon for beginners, better accuracy, but snap 18 cells, ignoring armor)
FN Fal (snap 16 cells, bonus damage + ignoring armor, imba in the hands of experienced soldiers)
Arasaka3000 (accuracy!!! snap 24!!! cells, bonus damage + ignoring armor, IMBA)
Asuka4000 (accuracy!!! snap 26!!! cells, bonus damage + ignoring armor, IMBA)
Arasaka3000 and Asuka4000 are some of the best rifles out there. Beginners will almost always hit with good damage, veterans will destroy tanks...
BlackOps Auto-Sniper Rifle (snap 33!!! cells, bonus damage + armor ignore, IMBA). Another IMBA gun. In the hands of veterans can make a bloodbath.
MG3 (great damage especially for the stage it appears, snap x2 32 cells, auto x6 32 cells... Shoot only from a crouch because the accuracy of +160%, IMBA, hits very far, the probability of hitting is very high, the DMP is excellent)
Any Pulse Weapons with chemical ammo. A really fucked up weapon, seriously fucked up. Especially M.A.G.M.A. Pulse LMG (Catastrophic damage, bonus damage, snap 25 cells. Kills almost everything with the first salvo. Stupid IMBA). The enemy has a lot of armor and even has resistance to chemistry? I don't give a shit, after the first shot the armor will disappear, and after the second shot the enemy will disappear...
XM29 only as a grenade launcher. Direct fire and six rounds in a clip. I can't stand other grenade launchers with their hinged trajectory, they are all very slow and heavy, constantly needing to be reloaded. This thing fires direct fire several times with excellent accuracy and damage. Was an imba before the nerf, but still a great weapon.

Try to go straight into promotion 2 and personal protection. They open up armor vests that are very good defense against the kinetics of cultists. For this you need to research a living mutant (MONGORN, SPIKEBOAR, FENRIR, etc.), psiсlone (squeeze from exalt) and "get to know" the cultists . This happens very quickly. In the area of half a year. And you don't have to go in hand-to-hand to stun a mutant, it's enough to shoot him and sit in a safe place. He will go down on his own because of his injuries.

PS. I tried to go out in a good armor. I guess I lied about six months. Personally, I got it, but for a player who is just getting acquainted with the mod, it will be difficult to so rush. Well, within 1 year or 1.5 years of measured play is fine. The main thing to emphasize on the important research and in the first place to open a biolaboratory and intelligence center.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Xolvix on April 29, 2022, 12:28:56 pm
I gotta say, going back to playing this properly is both fun and tedious. I was enjoying the overpowered agents I had due to modding their characters. Now that I'm playing properly, they basically can't do much before being killed by a zombie because they can't aim for shit and their bullets bounce off the zombies, for whatever reason. It's still very early in the playthrough but I am close to my first promotion.

I think I just forgot what it means to have your characters for their lives. I got no shame in using saves; I'd never play this without them!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: flanker84 on May 02, 2022, 12:44:51 pm
Great mod, installed immediately after reading the change list!
I`m struggling with commendations:
1) do "master of..." and "bane pf..." bonuses stack in case I gain level1 for weapon/race A, level2 for weapon/race B, and so on?
2) I would suggest making the "master of ..." requirement 10X less and leaving "gunner", "sniper", etc as it is; the logic is following: your soldiers get better with a particular gun faster than becoming overall better in a weapon class, making "master of..." level 10 possible to obtain, because now it is not, as you change tier levels faster than killing 500 enemies with a particular gun.
3) what is the difference between "Flat Stats Change" and "Stat Bonuses" in commendations descriptions?
4) "bane of..." - i`d also suggest decreasing 10X, as it is also impossible to get 500 kills of one enemy race, same for "warden of..."
I played extensively last time without losing agents and couldn`t get to decent levels for these commendations, maybe someone could advise how to change this, so I can do it myself?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on May 02, 2022, 05:20:31 pm
1) Yes
2) It's going to be greasy.
3) I don't know what you mean.
4) It's going to be greasy.

Soldiers are already because of these awards have inflated stats. And if you lower the conditions on these recurring awards, the soldiers will be imbalanced
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: flanker84 on May 02, 2022, 08:13:35 pm
thank for your reply

reg 3) - I mean description in the new wiki for this great mod, for example for the "gun kata" commendation: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_GUN_KATA

*I`d like to kind of a role play, so I`d like ajust commendations, if I change the numbers in commendations_XCOMFILES.rul will it work?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on May 03, 2022, 11:46:17 pm
In some mods, when selecting vehicles, you can see the possible radius of flight, depending on the fuel. How do I enable such a feature in X-files?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Mathel on May 05, 2022, 08:40:00 pm
3) My guess is as follows
Flat Stat Bonus affects the stat as is and is limited by the stat's maximal value.
Stat Bonus is tacked on top of whatever the stat happens to be, ignoring maximal stat. Commendation bonuses work this way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: the nomad on May 06, 2022, 01:10:08 am
In some mods, when selecting vehicles, you can see the possible radius of flight, depending on the fuel. How do I enable such a feature in X-files?

Isn't that already in? I can see it with crafts who has limited range.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on May 06, 2022, 01:40:13 pm
oh, question solved. I pressed "R."
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: flanker84 on May 07, 2022, 01:13:27 am
Bug report: researching "Mateba Autorevolver acquisition" doesn`t show ammo in popup screen and doesn`t allow to buy it
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on May 07, 2022, 05:02:53 pm
Bug report: researching "Mateba Autorevolver acquisition" doesn`t show ammo in popup screen and doesn`t allow to buy it
There is a separate bug thread for reporting exactely this, best post this there instead.

That aside, research for the Mateba and the Judge/Kludge is messed up at the moment. Purchasing either gun deosn't actually require Magnum acquisition (or the gun specific acquisition for that matter), but buying the ammunition does. On top of that both the AP and the shotgun ammunition only become available if both Mateba&Kludge acquistion as well as shotgun aquisition have been reasearched. I don't think this is intended.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 08, 2022, 08:09:32 pm
Since this was mentioned several times: I also prefer to assign a small number of scientists to a project. Not necessarily just 1, but I think 10 is a bit too many, unless it's a major project with the cost in triple digits. (Or when I'm out of researches, of course.)

Sol, maybe we should make the hangars roomy or small hangars in 1 cell? Very strange that 1 car takes a hangar for the plane. I understand that the game convention, but still...

Multiple hangar types are currently unsupported, or at least not in a satisfactory way.
Think of it as having a huge garage for your awesome ride. Pure swag.

Sol, I discovered the UNEXCOM mod. Some of the weapons have amazing tracers. What a beautiful thing that is. Please implement something like that in your mod. These tracers are amazing.

There are many awesome mods out there, and I stole quite a bit of material from them when I was a rookie... But now I'm trying not to. :D
But okay, what exactly do you mean by tracers? Particle trails left by projectiles?

That aside, research for the Mateba and the Judge/Kludge is messed up at the moment. Purchasing either gun deosn't actually require Magnum acquisition (or the gun specific acquisition for that matter), but buying the ammunition does. On top of that both the AP and the shotgun ammunition only become available if both Mateba&Kludge acquistion as well as shotgun aquisition have been reasearched. I don't think this is intended.

Thanks, indeed it was bugged - both guns had too lax requirements for purchasing them. Hopefully this fix is good enough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: SMA on May 09, 2022, 01:21:12 am
Bug report:
[INFO]   MCD COPTER object 53 has invalid DieMCD: 64
[FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: Unit generator encountered an error: item set not defined


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 09, 2022, 11:50:01 am
Bug report:
[INFO]   MCD COPTER object 53 has invalid DieMCD: 64
[FATAL]   A fatal error has occurred: Unit generator encountered an error: item set not defined

Yeah, you're right, thanks. Fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Bonakva on May 10, 2022, 03:56:28 pm
Sol, doesn't your mod have a script like FTA?
So that in the first turn the enemy has less AP


But okay, what exactly do you mean by tracers? Particle trails left by projectiles?

yep
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 10, 2022, 04:35:17 pm
Sol, doesn't your mod have a script like FTA?
So that in the first turn the enemy has less AP

No. You usually land your big ass aircraft in the middle of an enemy base, why would they be unprepared???

yep

Maybe... It's a controversial solution, perhaps one day.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Juku121 on May 12, 2022, 09:37:01 am
No. You usually land your big ass aircraft in the middle of an enemy base, why would they be unprepared???
Because a) not every cultist sleeps with their gun under their pillow, boots on and dynamite pack in hand; b) they don't know where exactly your big-ass craft will land and will thus have to 'spend TU' to catch up with it; c) it's terribly random in execution and quite a few people find it not fun.

Edit: The one thing this feature does is provide a distinct challenge of "They got you in their sights, now what?" Unfortunately, the same could be said about 'pod' management in NuCom. Both led to rather boring solutions (pod creeping or stay put if in closed craft/pop smoke and pray/abort)./edit

It's a controversial solution, perhaps one day.
What's so controversial about it? It's complicated, but I haven't seen anyone really rail against tracers and saying "Tracers? Never! I will stop playing [this mod] if there are tracers!"


It'd be better if you just said "It's my mod, I like it how it is and that's the way it's gonna be!" or "Too much work!" instead of coming up with strange justifications.

In any case, there's a mod  (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.0.html)for this, and even StarvingPoet's extra tweak (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.msg119480.html#msg119480) on the next page.


If I were you, I'd head off any further such discussion by making a list of XCF submods and certain other mods (sounds are already linked, Arsenal, Medical, Ratatat, this, maybe the 'pact country recovery' change, probably more), and put a Solarius' Seal of (Dis)Approval next to them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 12, 2022, 01:09:10 pm
Because a) not every cultist sleeps with their gun under their pillow, boots on and dynamite pack in hand; b) they don't know where exactly your big-ass craft will land and will thus have to 'spend TU' to catch up with it; c) it's terribly random in execution and quite a few people find it not fun.

"I'm already here in the open, gun in hand, so why not turn my back to the oncoming vehicle and contemplate some bushes?"
Typical strawman argument. It's not about people caught asleep or otherwise unprepared.

It'd be better if you just said "It's my mod, I like it how it is and that's the way it's gonna be!" or "Too much work!" instead of coming up with strange justifications.

Jesus, why do you always have to be such an asshole in every post? Do you think it's cool or something? It's not.

I give answers according to what I think, even if sometimes it's rushed or not considered carefully enough (which admittedly happens). If you don't believe me, then it's your problem, stop projecting it on the community.

In any case, there's a mod  (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.0.html)for this, and even StarvingPoet's extra tweak (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.msg119480.html#msg119480) on the next page.

Yeah, everyone can modify the mod however they want, I have no problem with that.

If I were you, I'd head off any further such discussion by making a list of XCF submods and certain other mods (sounds are already linked, Arsenal, Medical, Ratatat, this, maybe the 'pact country recovery' change, probably more), and put a Solarius' Seal of (Dis)Approval next to them.

Too much work (ha), but primarily it's not really my business, it's the community's will. I can only comment whether I personally agree with something or not, but only as a private person, not a mod author. There are no "wrong decisions", it's the player's time spent on a game and the player's fun to be had; even if I consider some behaviours distasteful or counterproductive, I am not going to actively prevent people from enjoying XCF any way they want.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Juku121 on May 12, 2022, 10:14:02 pm
"I'm already here in the open, gun in hand, so why not turn my back to the oncoming vehicle and contemplate some bushes?"
Typical strawman argument. It's not about people caught asleep or otherwise unprepared.
It is, but the strawman is yours. Did I mention enemy facing somewhere? This is a separate (though related) matter altogether.

I did and do mean TU. It is not about 'facing some bushes'. It is about the point of time when the cultist/alien/whoever reaches 'the open' and 'the bushes', relative to X-Com rapidly disembarking from their craft. Which they presumably at least try to land away from the greatest concentration of enemy forces. So the enemies must 'spend' their TU to catch up.

Why are all the gopniks rushing to keep up with the craft 100% coordinated and in sync? Ain't realistic, never was, and Starving Poet's variable TU is the best approximation of reality so far. Maybe not perfect, but good enough.

Also, it very much is about unprepared cultists. Or are you saying 100% of every cultist base is on red alert 24/7, all year long? If not, enemies start in different stages of preparedness. Some will have to 'spend' TU to get dressed, grab a gun, get out, get oriented and get orders. Or climb out from where they're repairing exploded UFO guts, playing with cattle or mind-wiping civvies. Others are already on patrol, gun in hand, fully alert, chasing the intruding vehicle.

All of this 'realism' can, of course, be waived if it makes for poor gameplay. I haven't seen any argument that it does. Players are expressing that they're feeling frustrated, not challenged.

Too much work (ha), but primarily it's not really my business, it's the community's will.
I can only comment whether I personally agree with something or not, but only as a private person, not a mod author.
Making a shortish list with links mod threads and attaching it to one of your posts is neither a lot of work nor can anyone but you (or the admins) do it. In fact, you've already done it with the resound mod.

But fine, provide Solarious's Totally Unofficial-Personal Seal Of (Dis)Approval, then.

Jesus, why do you always have to be such an asshole in every post?
Once again, disagreeing with you and providing arguments equals being an asshole. Yeah, no change here. Even the swearing is still in.

I think at this point calling you 'That DM' is not far off the mark.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 13, 2022, 11:43:34 am
Just go away, please.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Vakrug on May 13, 2022, 08:32:39 pm
Hello!

I want to say a big thank you to the authors of this mod. It is truly wonderful. If the original X-COM development was not stopped at 90-s, I believe the game would evolve into something similar to this mod. I suspected earlier that the original X-COM was somewhat unpolished, but only after I played this mod I realized how many flaws were in the original X-COM's mechanics.

There is a ton of questions I want to ask, but I will list only few of them in this post.

One of the greatest issue I faced with this mod (and in X-COM game in general) is a lack of available information about some core mechanics. And I searched a lot, trust me! In this forum and in other places. I managed to find some useful info, like that “#” means 50 science days or that “damage from fire” is 5-10. But I still cannot figure out many other things.

How exactly smoke decreases vision? (Formula?) Is there different types of smoke on the map with different properties? (It feels yes.) How much choke damage is inflicted each turn to a unit that stands in a smoke cloud?

Can someone, please, explain me how exactly colorful shields work? (Zero info on this topic out there!) I teared out many of my hair trying to figure that out. For example, both Black Lotus Avatar and Ethereal has Gold Shield, but it seems, that they work differently. Black Lotus Avatar's shield will not diminish if your bullet did no damage. In contrary to this it is impossible to harm Ethereal at all until he has a shield that will disappear after few shots. And how shields work together with armor? And what exactly means “good protection against” and “bad protection against” in ufopedia page? I need a proper formula!

Ridiculously, but there is a formula for psi defense, and no formula for psi attack! So how exactly likelihood of successful psi attack (panic and control respectfully) is calculated? Hybrids are capable of psi attacking even without psi-amps, but it looks like their attacks are less likely to succeed. And I also read something about distance from target that matter. Is that true?

How moral damage is calculated? I know it depends on damage amount and bravery, but how exactly? Very strange seeing 1500% moral damage from Incendiary Grenade and not knowing how good this bonus actually is.

I think it is very unfair showing that there is 60% chance to successfully attack with a knife, while in reality there is 10% chance because of opponent's dodging capabilities. I understand, that it is impossible to show real success chance before strike, but may be there is a way to notify player about real chances after few attack attempts? Same issue is with obstacles on line of fire. Game says 146% chance to hit, but all bullets miss, because in reality only opponent's nose is visible above the rock. Again, it would be nice to see how well an opponent was hidden after a shot using something like Ctrl+H screen.

Then I wish to talk about game balance around sniper rifles. It looks like they are very overpowered and useful in pretty much every situation. Of course you need an agent with good aim to use sniper rifles, bet this is not an issue at all in the mid game and later on. During my playthrough I tried hard to use heavy weapons, like canons. After all, if an agent is very strong, then giving him a heavy weapon is  reasonable thing to do, right? This extra weight supposes to contain more power, right? But in reality canons do a little more damage than sniper rifles, are way less accurate and have similar rate of fire. So sniper rifles completely outshine canons and many other weapon classes. This is sad.

Similar question I have about SMG's, especially about 2-handed ones. What are they for? I think they should be more deadly than regular rifles at short distances, but they don't. I don't want to believe, that most SMG's are garbage, but I can't find an application for them either.

Maybe I am completely wrong about weapon balance. I was slightly shocked reading that someone finds CAWS useful, while I find it to be a worse version of a shotgun. I am certain that being able to shoot enemies from afar with great precision is much more important than anything else even on not so open maps, but I read that someone thinks shotguns are great. I really wish to know other people opinions about weapon efficiency in different situations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 15, 2022, 02:26:04 pm
Hello!

I want to say a big thank you to the authors of this mod. It is truly wonderful. If the original X-COM development was not stopped at 90-s, I believe the game would evolve into something similar to this mod. I suspected earlier that the original X-COM was somewhat unpolished, but only after I played this mod I realized how many flaws were in the original X-COM's mechanics.

Thank you in the name of the entire team! We're having much fun doing this.

One of the greatest issue I faced with this mod (and in X-COM game in general) is a lack of available information about some core mechanics. And I searched a lot, trust me! In this forum and in other places. I managed to find some useful info, like that “#” means 50 science days or that “damage from fire” is 5-10. But I still cannot figure out many other things.

Yes, this is indeed a bit obscure. I will make a note to finally make some Pedia article to address some of these issues. Feel free to let me know what should be explained (apart from below).

How exactly smoke decreases vision? (Formula?) Is there different types of smoke on the map with different properties? (It feels yes.) How much choke damage is inflicted each turn to a unit that stands in a smoke cloud?

There's only one type of smoke, with variable density. As for the formula, I also had to look for it, found it here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Smoke_Grenade. The final value is 1-3 points per round, but most unprotected units in XCF have 400% modifire to smoke, so multiply this by 4.

Can someone, please, explain me how exactly colorful shields work? (Zero info on this topic out there!) I teared out many of my hair trying to figure that out. For example, both Black Lotus Avatar and Ethereal has Gold Shield, but it seems, that they work differently. Black Lotus Avatar's shield will not diminish if your bullet did no damage. In contrary to this it is impossible to harm Ethereal at all until he has a shield that will disappear after few shots. And how shields work together with armor? And what exactly means “good protection against” and “bad protection against” in ufopedia page? I need a proper formula!

These shields should work exactly the same, the only difference being in how much damage they can absorb.
Shields work before armour, and armour only starts working after a shield is coimpletely depleted. Unless it's a damage type that completely ignores this type of shield.
Sorry, no pklan to adding more formulas. That would be pointless info dump. If you're interested, you can check the script in scripts_XCOMFILES.rul.

Ridiculously, but there is a formula for psi defense, and no formula for psi attack! So how exactly likelihood of successful psi attack (panic and control respectfully) is calculated? Hybrids are capable of psi attacking even without psi-amps, but it looks like their attacks are less likely to succeed. And I also read something about distance from target that matter. Is that true?

Distance definitely matters, yes. As for the formula, I don't keep such things to memory, but it should be easy to find on the ufopaedia.org page.

How moral damage is calculated? I know it depends on damage amount and bravery, but how exactly? Very strange seeing 1500% moral damage from Incendiary Grenade and not knowing how good this bonus actually is.

That's another vanilla mechanic which I never bothered to check. Honestly, what's the point? It works, that's what matters.

I think it is very unfair showing that there is 60% chance to successfully attack with a knife, while in reality there is 10% chance because of opponent's dodging capabilities. I understand, that it is impossible to show real success chance before strike, but may be there is a way to notify player about real chances after few attack attempts? Same issue is with obstacles on line of fire. Game says 146% chance to hit, but all bullets miss, because in reality only opponent's nose is visible above the rock. Again, it would be nice to see how well an opponent was hidden after a shot using something like Ctrl+H screen.

If I recall correctly, Meridian specifically rejected this, because he considered it a cheat. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Then I wish to talk about game balance around sniper rifles. It looks like they are very overpowered and useful in pretty much every situation. Of course you need an agent with good aim to use sniper rifles, bet this is not an issue at all in the mid game and later on. During my playthrough I tried hard to use heavy weapons, like canons. After all, if an agent is very strong, then giving him a heavy weapon is  reasonable thing to do, right? This extra weight supposes to contain more power, right? But in reality canons do a little more damage than sniper rifles, are way less accurate and have similar rate of fire. So sniper rifles completely outshine canons and many other weapon classes. This is sad.

I think that means you're a sniper player. I am much feedback like this, but for different weapon classes - for example "pistols are the only viable weapons" is fairly popular. I personally find sniper rifles very useful, but only on large open areas, whereas cannons are more for city warfare.

Similar question I have about SMG's, especially about 2-handed ones. What are they for? I think they should be more deadly than regular rifles at short distances, but they don't. I don't want to believe, that most SMG's are garbage, but I can't find an application for them either.

Weird - everyone is saying how rubbish assault rifles are compared to SMGs... :) A matter of preference, I suppose.

Maybe I am completely wrong about weapon balance. I was slightly shocked reading that someone finds CAWS useful, while I find it to be a worse version of a shotgun. I am certain that being able to shoot enemies from afar with great precision is much more important than anything else even on not so open maps, but I read that someone thinks shotguns are great. I really wish to know other people opinions about weapon efficiency in different situations.

Well, I am doing my best to make weapon classes "balanced" in the sense of catering to various player types. I totally hear your arguments, I treat them seriously and will keep them in mind. But there are many players making claims and their opinions vary wildly... :)

And now, to announce: Version 2.5 is ready.
- New missions: MiB Base, MiB Ground Supply.
- New staff input.
- New cities: Bratislava, Vilnius, Talinn, Tbilisi, Bishkek, Dushanbe.
- New countries: Kirgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Ethiopia, Uganda, Senegal, Democratic Republic of Congo, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Thailand, Vietnam.
- New agent nationalities: Afghani, Algerian, Australian, Austrian, Azeri, Chilean, Colombian, Ecuadorian, Egyptian, Iraqi, Libyan, Lithuanian, Moroccan, New Zealander, Pakistani, Peruvian, Tunisian, Turkmen, Venezuelan (several name lists provided by LFM).
- More Cuban names.
- Better country funding model (by Buscher).
- Dimension X Expeditions.
- Chemical Flares can be recovered.
- Proteans are immune to zombification.
- Custom desert roads.
- Cydonia requires space-capable suits.
- MiB Outpost reworked.
- Simplified the Moon satellite project.
- Cult vehicles have white markers.
- Battleship map 7 fixes.
- Corrected "Lassa" to "Lhasa".
- Some country border corrections.
- Fixed Kigali, Dakar and Nouakchott placement.
- Fixed a crash on some humans vs. monsters missions.
- Fixed Golden Academy Towers not spawning in some scenarios.
- Fixed damage display on some power armors.
- Muton sprites fix (by Alex_D).
- Fixed Dimension X ending.
- Minor fixes (thanks to Emil J. Schroeder).

If you want to see the new countries on an older campaign, you will have to add them manually - please refer to the previous release post for details.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: tarkalak on May 15, 2022, 02:46:31 pm
Thank you in the name of the entire team! We're having much fun doing this.

Wait, isn't it just you?

...
Maybe I am completely wrong about weapon balance. I was slightly shocked reading that someone finds CAWS useful, while I find it to be a worse version of a shotgun. I am certain that being able to shoot enemies from afar with great precision is much more important than anything else even on not so open maps, but I read that someone thinks shotguns are great. I really wish to know other people opinions about weapon efficiency in different situations.

Shotguns have decent accuracy up close and with aimed shots quite far away. They are really good on the Strange creatures early on, because you must clear the closest enemies as fast as possible, Also some of them have a readily available stun round, which isn't the best but is longer range than the Tasers. I found them very useful on the Large Zombie missions since they deal tons of damage for the TU used.

On cult missions, though you need something that can deal with armor better and has higher accuracy at range. I am a fan of assault rifles, although they aren't the best tool sometimes.

I rarely use SMGs, except the one handed ones. I usually need more damage to go through some armor and rifles do that. The one handed ones are decent as a secondary arm.

People have been loving the Miniguns too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: krautbernd on May 15, 2022, 03:06:45 pm
Wait, isn't it just you?
The readme is called "readme" for a reason. You might want to check it for a non-exhaustive list of contributors, not to mention those contributing to the github repository and people reporting bugs (and bugfixes) on the forums. Also keep in mind that none of this would be possible without all the work that's gone into OXCE.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: tarkalak on May 15, 2022, 03:14:09 pm
The readme is called "readme" for a reason. You might want to check it for a non-exhaustive list of contributors, not to mention those contributing to the github repository and people reporting bugs (and bugfixes) on the forums. Also keep in mind that none of this would be possible without all the work that's gone into OXCE.

True that. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Vakrug on May 15, 2022, 03:48:09 pm
Thank you for your answers.
There's only one type of smoke, with variable density. As for the formula, I also had to look for it, found it here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Smoke_Grenade. The final value is 1-3 points per round, but most unprotected units in XCF have 400% modifire to smoke, so multiply this by 4.
According to this article there are 3 types of smoke with different denity (how I expeced) and it is impossible to distiguish between then by glance (how typical).
These shields should work exactly the same, the only difference being in how much damage they can absorb.
Shields work before armour, and armour only starts working after a shield is coimpletely depleted. Unless it's a damage type that completely ignores this type of shield.
Sorry, no pklan to adding more formulas. That would be pointless info dump. If you're interested, you can check the script in scripts_XCOMFILES.rul.
So it is possible to take down shields with many shots with low caliber bullets? Strange that I was unable to do that Black Lotus Avatar. And event more stranger is that Ufopedia article about purple (if I recall correctly) shield clearly states that it is immune to low caliber shots. That is why I was so confused. I will definitely check the formula.
Distance definitely matters, yes. As for the formula, I don't keep such things to memory, but it should be easy to find on the ufopaedia.org page.
Well I visited ufopaedia.org previously and now. Specifically article about psi-amp. Call me blind, but I don't see any percentages of success. And ufopaedia.org suck in a way that there is no "all article list". You have to know exactly what to search in advance.
That's another vanilla mechanic which I never bothered to check. Honestly, what's the point? It works, that's what matters.
Well, I also had this attitude while played original X-COM. But with this mod with so much options it is no longer possible. But I finally found the right article on ufopaedia.org, so OK.
If I recall correctly, Meridian specifically rejected this, because he considered it a cheat. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, I understand that, partially. I just believe that leaving all how it is now is even worse than cheating. Can I request at least a tiny notice in ufopedia inside article about melee, that "percentage you see are misleading"?
I think that means you're a sniper player. I am much feedback like this, but for different weapon classes - for example "pistols are the only viable weapons" is fairly popular. I personally find sniper rifles very useful, but only on large open areas, whereas cannons are more for city warfare.
...
Well, I am doing my best to make weapon classes "balanced" in the sense of catering to various player types. I totally hear your arguments, I treat them seriously and will keep them in mind. But there are many players making claims and their opinions vary wildly... :)
Good to know. Now I can use sniper rifles without thinking that I am exploiting some bugs.
Weird - everyone is saying how rubbish assault rifles are compared to SMGs... :) A matter of preference, I suppose.
Very strange. Typical battle is an assault on cultist stockpile: a building full of cultist in the middle of a desert with no covers at all. How am I suppose to win this without long range weapons???

If you want to see the new countries on an older campaign, you will have to add them manually - please refer to the previous release post for details.
Release post for 2.4? There is only "Note: the new countries will only appear a new campaign. (Or if you edit them manually into your save.)".
Can I not add them and just play? This will not screw founding or something else? Sorry for stupid questions, that probably were answered many times, but really cannot find those answers.

MODIFIED:
Yes, just updated the mod. Everything looks fine even without new countries.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Vakrug on May 15, 2022, 04:01:45 pm
Shotguns have decent accuracy up close and with aimed shots quite far away. They are really good on the Strange creatures early on, because you must clear the closest enemies as fast as possible, Also some of them have a readily available stun round, which isn't the best but is longer range than the Tasers. I found them very useful on the Large Zombie missions since they deal tons of damage for the TU used.
As I suspected. Good against early creatures, against some zombies, good for stun rounds (but this is only 1 specific shotgun), bad for pretty much everything else.

One thing I hate about shotguns (with scattering ammo) is that even with 100% accuracy not all rounds hit the target. If distance is relatively big, even smaller number of rounds hit the target. I even suspect that 100% accuracy means that there is 100% chance for 1 round (out of 7) to hit and that is all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: tarkalak on May 15, 2022, 07:29:44 pm
Can I not add them and just play? This will not screw founding or something else? Sorry for stupid questions, that probably were answered many times, but really cannot find those answers.

You can add them manually in your own save.

The thread in the link below explains how to do that. It is mostly for the last time new countries were added (2 years ago) but the last post is for this update. It has an excel sheet to recalculate the values if you want to change the funding somewhat proportionally. There is also the file with my calculations for my own save.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7161.msg113435.html#msg113435 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7161.msg113435.html#msg113435)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2022, 11:08:29 am
Wait, isn't it just you?

Well yes, but actually no. Many people spontaneously help out, as seen in the changelog, so at this point it wouldn't be fair to call it a solo project.

The readme is called "readme" for a reason. You might want to check it for a non-exhaustive list of contributors, not to mention those contributing to the github repository and people reporting bugs (and bugfixes) on the forums. Also keep in mind that none of this would be possible without all the work that's gone into OXCE.

Exactly! :)

o it is possible to take down shields with many shots with low caliber bullets? Strange that I was unable to do that Black Lotus Avatar. And event more stranger is that Ufopedia article about purple (if I recall correctly) shield clearly states that it is immune to low caliber shots. That is why I was so confused. I will definitely check the formula.

The Avatar has Gold shields, not Purple. And anyway, no shield is completely immune to anything, although their efficiency varies a lot.
Yes, the avatar can definitely be taken down with enough bullets.

Well I visited ufopaedia.org previously and now. Specifically article about psi-amp. Call me blind, but I don't see any percentages of success. And ufopaedia.org suck in a way that there is no "all article list". You have to know exactly what to search in advance.

I searched for "psi formula" and immediately got this: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Psionic_Equations

Well, I also had this attitude while played original X-COM. But with this mod with so much options it is no longer possible. But I finally found the right article on ufopaedia.org, so OK.

Well, it probably helps, but I wouldn't say it's necessary... I don't do this when playing other X-com mods, and I'm doing fine. To each their own.

Well, I understand that, partially. I just believe that leaving all how it is now is even worse than cheating. Can I request at least a tiny notice in ufopedia inside article about melee, that "percentage you see are misleading"?

I honestly think that this particular point should be discussed on the level of OXCE. (I do not have any strong beliefs here myself.)

Still, I'm not going to write that these numbers are misleading, because they are not. They show exactly what they're supposed to. Enemy dodge is not a part of this.

Very strange. Typical battle is an assault on cultist stockpile: a building full of cultist in the middle of a desert with no covers at all. How am I suppose to win this without long range weapons???

In darkness. ;)

But seriously, I'm inclined to agree, especially for that phase. But there are also many close quarter battles, and increasingly more as you play on...

You can add them manually in your own save.

The thread in the link below explains how to do that. It is mostly for the last time new countries were added (2 years ago) but the last post is for this update. It has an excel sheet to recalculate the values if you want to change the funding somewhat proportionally. There is also the file with my calculations for my own save.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7161.msg113435.html#msg113435 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7161.msg113435.html#msg113435)

Yep, this should work. But I'm not sure if recalculating is necessary - I'm getting mixed messages about how the code works, it might actually do that automatically.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on May 16, 2022, 11:52:52 am
Yep, this should work. But I'm not sure if recalculating is necessary - I'm getting mixed messages about how the code works, it might actually do that automatically.

The code uses the values in the file, right?
So if I don't update them it will use the last month's values including the ones I added to it, therefore I will end up with more money, than I am supposed to.

Of course recalculating it the way I do it is not necessary, you can just decrease the old funding nations at whim until you get the "correct" funding for the month.

The purpose of the recalculating is to make it look like the new funding countries were here from the beginning and got gradual increase throughout the months. I can repeat the same for all months, but only the last matters, so I am not OCD enough to repeat it 11 times.

I am a mathematician, so I have to flex a little. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 16, 2022, 05:50:03 pm
All right :) I'm just saying that I've been told that it adding new countries forces the game to recalculate incomes, so the end value is more or less the same. And then I got the opposite info. I just don't know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Vakrug on May 16, 2022, 07:08:02 pm
I searched for "psi formula" and immediately got this: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Psionic_Equations
Thanks for link. So X-COM Files only changed formula for psi defense and added requirement for vision? Hmmm... Maybe Skulljack is not so useless after all...
Well, it probably helps, but I wouldn't say it's necessary... I don't do this when playing other X-com mods, and I'm doing fine. To each their own.
I really want to understand the place of each item in this mod. Some items have very narrow niche. This is where calculations are necessary.
I honestly think that this particular point should be discussed on the level of OXCE. (I do not have any strong beliefs here myself.)
Oh, sorry, since I rediscovered X-COM recently I am still not sure what is a part of OXCE and what is part of the mod.
In darkness. ;)
Actually I usually storm outposts at night. But I use Trace Flares. My experience of fighting in darkness at close range: it is suicide!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on May 16, 2022, 10:06:54 pm
All right :) I'm just saying that I've been told that it adding new countries forces the game to recalculate incomes, so the end value is more or less the same. And then I got the opposite info. I just don't know.

I know less than you. If the game adds the new countries automatically, that would have been great, but I remember that last time it didn't.

I haven't tried waiting till end of the month to see if they will get added. Might try with the backup.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on May 19, 2022, 01:40:41 pm
Is it just my imaginations or some enemies can now kneel?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Xolvix on May 19, 2022, 01:43:45 pm
Is it just my imaginations or some enemies can now kneel?
It's a feature of OpenXCOM Extended. I'm not sure if mods need to have it enabled or not though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on May 19, 2022, 01:55:37 pm
It's a feature of OpenXCOM Extended. I'm not sure if mods need to have it enabled or not though.

I haven't played in about an year and a half. So I was wondering if I am hallucinating. You probably need to tell for each unit if it can kneel or not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Yankes on May 19, 2022, 03:29:58 pm
It's a feature of OpenXCOM Extended. I'm not sure if mods need to have it enabled or not though.
Mod need to enable it, as kneeling require dedicated graphic, and without it you will only see glitches.
Probably only case where this work from out-of-box is MC where your soldier get MC and then kneel to aim and shoot his friend :>
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Alex_D on May 19, 2022, 05:04:03 pm
I haven't played in about an year and a half. So I was wondering if I am hallucinating. You probably need to tell for each unit if it can kneel or not.

No you aren't hallucinating. Enemy units now can kneel during their turn.
Which leads to this "risqué" capture (pun intended).  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 07, 2022, 12:27:08 am
How is melee accuracy calculated when you select a weapon to use, does it account for any negating stats the enemy has?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 07, 2022, 07:46:55 pm
I think I'll reply here, because it's mostly not bugs per se.

Points accepted on the bows, but this game is not that conductive for fine details regarding archery. Simplifications have been made.
Yeah, I personally have no problems with your bow abstraction. I just had to comment. :P

To be honest, I've just found the damn things near-useless, but I guess that's pretty realistic. No modern military runs around with these, and for good reason. People who could get muskets dropped any bow they had real quick.

S&W M610 has a longer range because it's a bit weaker, and the Magnum is already too much of a no-brainer for many people.

DE is not .50, because it would be identical to Magnum.
I'm sure HelmetHair will be cross with me, but...
Regarding revolvers, handgun ballistics don't really work that way. Both 10mm and .44 are relatively big and heavy, but 10mm has lower velocity and is a semiauto round (well, a magnum round made into a semiauto one), which means it must accommodate some compromises pure revolver rounds do not. Big bad revolvers have always had both range and power over automatics, even if said auto round is put back into a revolver.

What they don't have is ease of reloading and light(er) recoil. Which translate to higher TU costs, maybe worse accuracy, heavier to lug around... But not shorter range.

If you want a weaker, longer-range revolver, one in .357 would fit better than 10mm. And giving the Magnum proper a shorter barrel would make my issues with it go away as well. Right now we've got two equally long-barreled big guns, but one shoots a majorly bigger and badder round than the other. .44 is no joke. Yet for some mysterious reason this big, fast round drops like crazy.

As to the DE, one in .50 would not be the same as Magnum because a) Magnum is .44, and DE can also be .44 but this one won't be; b) DE pretty much already is the same as the Magnum (37 vs 38 damage, anyone? :P ), c) DE is still a pistol, and can have pistol-specific advantages, whatever they may be in this mod*; d) Magnum still has the alloy ammo going for it.

OTOH, the Wildey kinda occupies the 'ridiculously oversized pistol' niche already. I just think a DEagle in .50 is far more iconic. 8)



*Personally, I think the only advantages a revolver should have over a similar semiauto in X-Com are power, range and ammo variety (since revolvers are kinda like shotguns in that they can fire all kinds of weird shit without mucking up the cycling). All the rest, ergonomics (=TU), accuracy, reload speed, weight, etc are in the autos' favour.

'Realism' rant over, I'd like to say that I'm finding the DE objectively better than the Magnum, at least without involving alloy ammo in the equation. Longer range, 10% better vs armour, slightly better aimed shot, +1 round, cheaper to shoot and more lucrative to sell vs slightly better snap shot and +1 power. By the time AA ammo rolls around, you probably want the BO Magnum or something even better, instead.

Containers are type 10 because some people like transporting them with actual vehicles.
It's not just containers but spiderwebs, skulls, dino bones, piles of bloody gore... How many players exactly are there who like to play Transport Tycoon with this stuff, and why do the rest of us with OCD have to suffer for their benefit? :P


The coat looks bad, WTF... But might be the filter.
I knew you were going to say that. ;D One pixi-lated coat coming up. I think two of the arm positions on the spreadsheet are one pixel off, or maybe it's the body.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 08, 2022, 07:43:35 pm
Something else that might be a matter of taste, but feels weird to me. I just assaulted an EXALT mansion and the entire outer perimeter was patrolled by... maids. Well, mostly maids. Not the heavily-armed troopers in faceplate armour, not the security goons with machine guns, suspenders and evil grins, not even the cannon fodder. Maids. The soldiers were busy in the meat section (doing what? ???), and the bedrooms, small cottages and torture chambers were being cleaned by the goons instead.

That also reminds me, does anybody know the reason why sometimes a 'UFO' (an outpost, usually) is empty and all the inhabitants have moved out into the open to have a powwow, or something? It must be a technical reason from what I can tell, but what is it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Marrik on June 09, 2022, 06:05:05 am
One thing I always thought was weird is that Nitro Express rifles apparently don't have much penetrative power. IRL elephant guns actually got used as anti-tank weapons in WW1.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 09, 2022, 05:51:59 pm
How is melee accuracy calculated when you select a weapon to use, does it account for any negating stats the enemy has?

Most enemies have a dodge value which is subtracted from your attack value. It can be checked on their armour entry (under INFO).

To be honest, I've just found the damn things near-useless, but I guess that's pretty realistic. No modern military runs around with these, and for good reason. People who could get muskets dropped any bow they had real quick.

Yeah, pretty much (although the training cost is also a big factor).

I'm sure HelmetHair will be cross with me, but...

(...)

'Realism' rant over, I'd like to say that I'm finding the DE objectively better than the Magnum, at least without involving alloy ammo in the equation. Longer range, 10% better vs armour, slightly better aimed shot, +1 round, cheaper to shoot and more lucrative to sell vs slightly better snap shot and +1 power. By the time AA ammo rolls around, you probably want the BO Magnum or something even better, instead.

Frankly, I'm not sure what the conclusion is, but for now I'll assum it's "good enough as is". I am open to ideas, though.

It's not just containers but spiderwebs, skulls, dino bones, piles of bloody gore... How many players exactly are there who like to play Transport Tycoon with this stuff, and why do the rest of us with OCD have to suffer for their benefit? :P

I don't know, but I think it's pretty cool that you can, even if I don't do this normally... :P

I knew you were going to say that. ;D One pixi-lated coat coming up. I think two of the arm positions on the spreadsheet are one pixel off, or maybe it's the body.

Yeah, looks bad :D
I'll check.

Something else that might be a matter of taste, but feels weird to me. I just assaulted an EXALT mansion and the entire outer perimeter was patrolled by... maids. Well, mostly maids. Not the heavily-armed troopers in faceplate armour, not the security goons with machine guns, suspenders and evil grins, not even the cannon fodder. Maids. The soldiers were busy in the meat section (doing what? ???), and the bedrooms, small cottages and torture chambers were being cleaned by the goons instead.

It's not easy to set these things, unless you make "hard" locations for maids to spawn in. And that'd be kinda boring - my goal is to make battles varied, which also means that your case should be a rare one.

Besides, who said they were patrolling? Maybe they were picking trash off the lawn after a party?

That also reminds me, does anybody know the reason why sometimes a 'UFO' (an outpost, usually) is empty and all the inhabitants have moved out into the open to have a powwow, or something? It must be a technical reason from what I can tell, but what is it?

It's somewhat random, but usually the biggest factor is the terrain used - some terrain blocks have more spawn points, some less, some are rank-oriented, some are not, etc. So it often boils down to who and when made the terrain (or more specifically, route nodes).

One thing I always thought was weird is that Nitro Express rifles apparently don't have much penetrative power. IRL elephant guns actually got used as anti-tank weapons in WW1.

...did they actually work?

But even if they did, the Nitro Express is definitely something else.


EDIT: Fixed the damn coat.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 09, 2022, 06:51:07 pm
Yeah, pretty much (although the training cost is also a big factor).
Well, that practice time could also be put into gun training. I've read some comments from, uh, I think early Renaissance-era Spanish mercenaries that becoming good with a gun made you far more dangerous than a bowman could ever be, Welsh longbows or no.

I'm not sure what the conclusion is, but for now I'll assum it's "good enough as is". I am open to ideas, though.
My proposal: make  two revolvers, one long-barreled firing a weaker round, .357 or similar (the S&W can be that) and one short-barreled (a magnum revolver in .44, so you only need to chop the barrel a bit). Then the BO Magnum can bring back the long barrel and be on par range-wise. In brief, cut the Magnum sprite's barrel and give the BO version the same range as DE. This way, it's clearer that the Magnum has a 'secret' weakness.

I don't know, but I think it's pretty cool that you can, even if I don't do this normally...
I'm not against the coolness, my problem is that these... things clutter up my craft equip screen. And there are some actually useful items (fire extinguishers, at least) at the end of the list.

Maybe an optional mod included with the game ("No Transport Tycoon!" ;D), like how Piratez used to have alternate armour mods?

It's not easy to set these things, unless you make "hard" locations for maids to spawn in. And that'd be kinda boring - my goal is to make battles varied, which also means that your case should be a rare one.
You already made the maids special - they're reinforcements. Which is why they spawn outside - all the prime spots are already taken. :)

Besides, who said they were patrolling? Maybe they were picking trash off the lawn after a party?
Some of them, sure. Most of them, still okay. Pretty much all of them? Not buying it.

It's somewhat random, but usually the biggest factor is the terrain used - some terrain blocks have more spawn points, some less, some are rank-oriented, some are not, etc. So it often boils down to who and when made the terrain (or more specifically, route nodes).
But what happens to the spawn nodes within the 'UFO' itself? I'm seeing everybody exit. Are the spawn nodes inside the generic ones, and if there are 'better' ones outside, all the cultists and aliens flock there?

...did they actually work?

But even if they did, the Nitro Express is definitely something else.
No idea. But there's a video of .700 NE vs some plates, and the plates don't break. Wouldn't want to be inside, though.

NE is pretty much the same thing, though? Maybe more powerful than early 20th-century guns, if anything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 09, 2022, 09:19:08 pm
Bit of a silly idea but would it be possible to simulate backblast from rocket launchers and such? Certainly would be an interesting, if not somewhat painful feature.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 10, 2022, 01:11:59 pm
My proposal: make  two revolvers, one long-barreled firing a weaker round, .357 or similar (the S&W can be that) and one short-barreled (a magnum revolver in .44, so you only need to chop the barrel a bit). Then the BO Magnum can bring back the long barrel and be on par range-wise. In brief, cut the Magnum sprite's barrel and give the BO version the same range as DE. This way, it's clearer that the Magnum has a 'secret' weakness.

So you are proposing to add yet another Magnum type, this one using a different ammo than the other 3 or so? I think that would be confusing - we could do that, but name the gun something else maybe.

Or did you mean changing Magnum's power on the existing ammo?

I'm not against the coolness, my problem is that these... things clutter up my craft equip screen. And there are some actually useful items (fire extinguishers, at least) at the end of the list.

I understand, of course. But you know how it is with cutting game options... It's rarely acceptable. I'd rather leave it as is, even though I am not using it myself on any regular basis, so for me it's also just cluttering the screen. But that's what filters are for.

Maybe an optional mod included with the game ("No Transport Tycoon!" ;D), like how Piratez used to have alternate armour mods?

Absolutely, I have no objection about submods like this one (or indeed any submods... well, maybe almost any. :P )

You already made the maids special - they're reinforcements. Which is why they spawn outside - all the prime spots are already taken. :)

Well, I'm honestly not sure where this lies on the "legit vs. hair-splitting" continuum... I can redo this, but it's work, so I'm not super motivated. :P The current setup never struck me as "obviously wrong".

Some of them, sure. Most of them, still okay. Pretty much all of them? Not buying it.

Now you're exaggerating. This can happen, especially when when only a few buildings are generated besides the manor itself, but is not the norm.

But what happens to the spawn nodes within the 'UFO' itself? I'm seeing everybody exit. Are the spawn nodes inside the generic ones, and if there are 'better' ones outside, all the cultists and aliens flock there?

Spawning and moving are two different things, they do not relate to one another (except that both use nodes, therefore are bound to a specific location). I don't think the map specifically encourages units to run outside, but the AI often does it anyway for, umm, tactical reasons (I have no clear idea how the AI works when not patrolling).

No idea. But there's a video of .700 NE vs some plates, and the plates don't break. Wouldn't want to be inside, though.

NE is pretty much the same thing, though? Maybe more powerful than early 20th-century guns, if anything.

Eh, I don't know, these are old and exotic weapons. but I think it uses some sort of dum-dum bullets. It's similar to some heavy revolvers in XCF, which also suffer an AP penalty.

Bit of a silly idea but would it be possible to simulate backblast from rocket launchers and such? Certainly would be an interesting, if not somewhat painful feature.

Not possible, but certainly would be fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 10, 2022, 01:54:07 pm
So you are proposing to add yet another Magnum type...
No, no, I'm proposing a 'nerf' to the early-game Magnum. Visual-only, at that. And bringing the range up to DE standards for the long-barreled BO Magnum.

I really want that .50 DE, too, but there are several other things that already fill that niche, so... :'(

But you know how it is with cutting game options... It's rarely acceptable. I'd rather leave it as is
...
But that's what filters are for.
I get that. That's why I proposed an 'official' submod that can be enabled to turn it off. Because right now, it's not really optional.

Why 'official'? Because if I do it, I'm likely to drop off again and several updates after that it'll be a bizarre mixture. I can make a base for it if you wish, but what I'm asking is that you maintain it yourself. I.e. every time you make a release, you add all the new 'battletype: 10' crap into the submod. Should take a few minutes, tops.

This can happen, especially when when only a few buildings are generated besides the manor itself, but is not the norm.
Okay, I went and tested some quick battles. About 4/10 had this problem. So it's not a massive issue, but it's not as much an outlier as you say, either. But...

I can redo this, but it's work, so I'm not super motivated. The current setup never struck me as "obviously wrong".
Yeah, I looked at the reinforcement data and it's a moderate amount of work for disputable gains. Unless you get more complaints, I can live with it.

Spawning and moving are two different things...
No, I didn't mean 'flock' as in 'move outside'. I meant it as 'spawn outside'. They are never inside to begin with. Something attracts the spawning away from the 'UFO'.

Eh, I don't know, these are old and exotic weapons. but I think it uses some sort of dum-dum bullets.
AFAIK, there are no 'dum-dum' big game bullets. What the elephant guns fire is pretty much expanding ammo to begin with: large, comparatively short, 'soft-point' rounds. .700 NE is an upscaled version of .600 NE, and that round was already present during WWI. In fact, the British successfully used .600 NE rifles against armour, although not tank armour but rather steel plates German snipers were hiding behind.

.600 NE is still used today, and isn't particularly different from it's incarnation from a century ago. It is exotic and a very specialist round for even big game hunters.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: zhorov on June 10, 2022, 06:24:02 pm
Is it possible to somehow add a Zephyr serum to XPiratez? Maybe you can somehow add such an opportunity to another drug to restore tu? As far as I understand everything works according to the script:
#*** Stat boosting ***
        code: |
          var int temp;

          item.getTag temp Tag.WM_IS_WACKY;

          if neq temp 0;
            # debug_log "healUnit: applying wacky medikit, skip normal effects completely";
            set medikit_action_type 0;

            target.getTimeUnits temp;
            add temp 55; ((The amount of time (tu) can be changed to whatever you like.)
            target.setTimeUnits temp;

            target.getEnergy temp;
            add temp 60; ((The amount of energy (stamina) can be changed to whatever you like.)
            target.setEnergy temp;

            return;
          end;

          # debug_log "healUnit: not wacky...";
          return;

I take it from scripts_XCOMFILES.rul

And I want to add to another wonderful mod that I started to replay. I don't understand almost anything in modding, I will be grateful if you help me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: krautbernd on June 10, 2022, 06:42:33 pm
Is it possible to somehow add a Zephyr serum to XPiratez? Maybe you can somehow add such an opportunity to another drug to restore tu?
Then this isn't a request for XCF  but for X-Pirates, is it? Why not post it in the X-Pirates forum?

And I want to add to another wonderful mod that I started to replay. I don't understand almost anything in modding, I will be grateful if you help me.
Why not use this as an opportunity to learn a bit about modding then? Adding an item is one of the easier things to do, and you've already identified the script you need to tie to the item. All you need is the {url=https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)]ruleset reference[/url] (don't be intimidated, strictly speaking you only need the item and sprites section for this). You don't need any new assets and you can pretty much work trrough this "backwards" from the existing entries in XCF. Simply use the entries for the serum in XCF as a template/example for what's needed in X-Pirates.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 10, 2022, 08:30:21 pm
An interesting situation I found. The Dagonites are apparently keeping the Deep Ones Gillmen in a pen, and there's a meat locker nearby, with some suspicious offerings inside. Is this for the Gillmen? From the Gillmen? :o

There is also a Priest together with a younger acolyte in there, pretending they don't know each other now that the door is open. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: zhorov on June 11, 2022, 01:03:13 pm
Then this isn't a request for XCF  but for X-Pirates, is it? Why not post it in the X-Pirates forum?
Why not use this as an opportunity to learn a bit about modding then? Adding an item is one of the easier things to do, and you've already identified the script you need to tie to the item. All you need is the {url=https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)]ruleset reference[/url] (don't be intimidated, strictly speaking you only need the item and sprites section for this). You don't need any new assets and you can pretty much work trrough this "backwards" from the existing entries in XCF. Simply use the entries for the serum in XCF as a template/example for what's needed in X-Pirates.
Asked but received no response yet. There are still more people sitting here, and it seems to me that this will help me solve the problem.
I study the wiki, but after 4 hours I still have not achieved anything what i need. This is the first game where I've tried something to edit, add, change. I'm 18, I played the new xcoms, but only after playing the original and mods did I understand what real freedom of action is, and not a rail shooter.
For some reason no one added this except the creator of this mod, and this thing really makes you try to get it and not use it like other things. But why? There are many items that give energy, morale, mana, even health but not time? Why not add a few items that would give a little time and not be so valuable? This is the question I think about a lot. Why not add pills or serum that would give 20 times. 6-10 to drag to hand and 1 to use. There would be 13-9 left that would be enough to use the first aid kit or simply leave the aisle. It's simple, isn't it? It should also be interesting and varied. But I saw it only in x-files and only 1 time. I want to fix this, at least for myself anyway, but I hope the developers read it and think about it too.
I understand best in examples. If you wrote me an example, I would be very grateful. There are 2 problems:
1) The subject should give time (tu). (Editing a simple script with an item on that one does not give anything, you need a script that most likely needs to be written in the ruleset script. The script itself is there, but for some reason I can’t use it from the second problem)
2) It crashes if I add some line to the steering wheel. Probably any moderator knows that something needs to be edited, but I'm still stupid about it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: krautbernd on June 11, 2022, 03:06:51 pm
Asked but received no response yet. There are still more people sitting here, and it seems to me that this will help me solve the problem.
If you've received no reply in the x-piratez subforum it's unliekly that anbody here will bother to write a complete submod for you.

The wiki alone isn't going to help, but you will probably need it in order to understand what it is you're modifying and what definitions you need. Don't start with the wiki, use it alongside the existing rulefiles. You've already identified the script (or at least parts of it and know what tag is attached to the item. You can use this to work your backward through the definitions to understand how this works. The item in question (found in item_XCOMFILES.rul) is STR_ZEPHYR_SERUM and the script is linked to this item via the
Code: [Select]
    tags:
      WM_IS_WACKY: 1
entry at the end of the entry for said item.

The isolated script you need is (though you can remove the comments if you like):

Code: [Select]
extended:
  tags:

    RuleItem:
      WM_IS_WACKY: int

  scripts:
    healUnit:

      - offset: 50
        #*** Stat boosting ***
        code: |
          var int temp;

          item.getTag temp Tag.WM_IS_WACKY;

          if neq temp 0;
            # debug_log "healUnit: applying wacky medikit, skip normal effects completely";
            set medikit_action_type 0;

            target.getTimeUnits temp;
            add temp 55;
            target.setTimeUnits temp;

            target.getEnergy temp;
            add temp 60;
            target.setEnergy temp;

            return;
          end;

          # debug_log "healUnit: not wacky...";
          return;

Put this in a separate rul file (best practice would be to call it scripts.rul or something similar). You can use this along with the other defintions you need in a dedicated submod. For (sub-)mod definitions look at the metadata.yml in the base directory of the x-piratez sub-mods (for example the czech name mod). This will involve some trial&error work on your side if you want to learn and understand how to mod, no two ways about this. And yes, the best thing would be to put this in a submod so you don't mess up the mod itself.

All of this is plaintext. You should be able to work your way throught this if this is indeed something you "need".

If you need further help you're better off asking in the dedicated modding help subforum:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,24.0.html

This isn't really the place for this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: zhorov on June 11, 2022, 07:22:41 pm
If you've received no reply in the x-piratez subforum it's unliekly that anbody here will bother to write a complete submod for you.

The wiki alone isn't going to help, but you will probably need it in order to understand what it is you're modifying and what definitions you need. Don't start with the wiki, use it alongside the existing rulefiles. You've already identified the script (or at least parts of it and know what tag is attached to the item. You can use this to work your backward through the definitions to understand how this works. The item in question (found in item_XCOMFILES.rul) is STR_ZEPHYR_SERUM and the script is linked to this item via the
Code: [Select]
    tags:
      WM_IS_WACKY: 1
entry at the end of the entry for said item.

The isolated script you need is (though you can remove the comments if you like):

Code: [Select]
extended:
  tags:

    RuleItem:
      WM_IS_WACKY: int

  scripts:
    healUnit:

      - offset: 50
        #*** Stat boosting ***
        code: |
          var int temp;

          item.getTag temp Tag.WM_IS_WACKY;

          if neq temp 0;
            # debug_log "healUnit: applying wacky medikit, skip normal effects completely";
            set medikit_action_type 0;

            target.getTimeUnits temp;
            add temp 55;
            target.setTimeUnits temp;

            target.getEnergy temp;
            add temp 60;
            target.setEnergy temp;

            return;
          end;

          # debug_log "healUnit: not wacky...";
          return;

Put this in a separate rul file (best practice would be to call it scripts.rul or something similar). You can use this along with the other defintions you need in a dedicated submod. For (sub-)mod definitions look at the metadata.yml in the base directory of the x-piratez sub-mods (for example the czech name mod). This will involve some trial&error work on your side if you want to learn and understand how to mod, no two ways about this. And yes, the best thing would be to put this in a submod so you don't mess up the mod itself.

All of this is plaintext. You should be able to work your way throught this if this is indeed something you "need".

If you need further help you're better off asking in the dedicated modding help subforum:

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,24.0.html

This isn't really the place for this.

You need to make your own submod, but how to make it? What files where to prescribe metadata.yml? What and how to do it?
I'll figure it out over the weekend.
So far, can someone tell me how to modify the number of crew on my ship?
rulsets:
soldiers: 12
If we change to a larger amount, this is not enough. Since they need to specify the place where they will spawn at the beginning of the mission.
deployment:
      - [12, 4, 1, 2]
      - [12, 5, 1, 2]
      - [11, 4, 1, 2]
      - [11, 5, 1, 2]
      - [7, 4, 1, 6]
      - [7, 5, 1, 6]
      - [8, 4, 1, 6]
      - [8, 5, 1, 6]
      - [8, 3, 1, 6]
      - [8, 6, 1, 6]
      - [8, 4, 2, 2]
      - [8, 5, 2, 2]
The numbers are the coordinates where the soldiers or vehicles will spawn in order.
So you need to add something like this
       - [8, 2, 2, 6]
and check if it works or not.
But the problem is, the game crashes, as it complains about changes in the line. What to do with it?

As far as I understand, it is necessary to register somewhere that there are more lines now?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: zhorov on June 11, 2022, 07:29:30 pm
And most likely I know the answer. (No)
Is there a way to make the base bigger? (more cells) ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: krautbernd on June 11, 2022, 08:13:50 pm
Not the appropriate place, please use modding help or the x-piratez subforum.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 11, 2022, 09:47:17 pm
Anthropod hillbillies cornered in a barn. We're coming for their guns! :P In a black (okay, white) helicopter, no less.

Come to think of it, where are all the black helicopters? Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2022, 06:04:47 pm
No, no, I'm proposing a 'nerf' to the early-game Magnum. Visual-only, at that. And bringing the range up to DE standards for the long-barreled BO Magnum.

I'm honestly not sure what this is supposed to accomplish, if there's no gameplay difference. I went and reread your argument, but I don't get the point. Why does it matter?

I really want that .50 DE, too, but there are several other things that already fill that niche, so... :'(
I get that. That's why I proposed an 'official' submod that can be enabled to turn it off. Because right now, it's not really optional.

Why 'official'? Because if I do it, I'm likely to drop off again and several updates after that it'll be a bizarre mixture. I can make a base for it if you wish, but what I'm asking is that you maintain it yourself. I.e. every time you make a release, you add all the new 'battletype: 10' crap into the submod. Should take a few minutes, tops.

Sorry, I'm not prepared to take on this additional tasks, mostly because I don't give the fuck. You want it, you do it - I wouldn't mind.

No, I didn't mean 'flock' as in 'move outside'. I meant it as 'spawn outside'. They are never inside to begin with. Something attracts the spawning away from the 'UFO'.

OK, I'll try looking at this issue. It's actually rather interesting.

An interesting situation I found. The Dagonites are apparently keeping the Deep Ones Gillmen in a pen, and there's a meat locker nearby, with some suspicious offerings inside. Is this for the Gillmen? From the Gillmen? :o

There is also a Priest together with a younger acolyte in there, pretending they don't know each other now that the door is open. ;)

Anthropod hillbillies cornered in a barn. We're coming for their guns! :P In a black (okay, white) helicopter, no less.

Come to think of it, where are all the black helicopters? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

:D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 13, 2022, 06:29:54 pm
I'm honestly not sure what this is supposed to accomplish, if there's no gameplay difference. I went and reread your argument, but I don't get the point. Why does it matter?
Makes it clear what the Magnum is good for (instead of digging into INFO), gives some early 'detective' vibes for the loadout.

The gameplay change would be in the BO Magnum.

Sorry, I'm not prepared to take on this additional tasks, mostly because I don't give the fuck. You want it, you do it - I wouldn't mind.
I don't personally really give a fuck, either. I've already done it for myself, I'm good, and I have other projects to manage myself. I know I'll forget this for a year or two sometime soonish. It's other players I'm proposing this for, because I don't really believe there is a significant percentage of them who like to play with the boxes all the time.

I'm even willing to do what's likely to be the bulk of the work for years to come. If you don't want to do the tiny extra step, eh, fine, let's leave things as they are.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 13, 2022, 07:33:03 pm
Makes it clear what the Magnum is good for (instead of digging into INFO), gives some early 'detective' vibes for the loadout.

It makes clear what exactly, and why? Sorry, I don't follow at all. You want a shorter barrel because you think it'd look better, this part I get, but not the first one.

The gameplay change would be in the BO Magnum.

How would the BlackOps Magnum be changed? I'm trying to find some concrete suggestions, but you haven't proposed any numbers, it's all .44 this, .357 that, and I don't know what your point is.

I am not trying to be obstructive, but I'm not a telepath.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 13, 2022, 08:47:33 pm
It makes clear what exactly, and why? Sorry, I don't follow at all. You want a shorter barrel because you think it'd look better, this part I get, but not the first one.
Makes it clear that the regular Magnum currently has -20% range compared to the S&W and the DE, the closest guns to it.

How would the BlackOps Magnum be changed?
I did say 'DE standards', so range 20 for aimed and 15 snap. But now that I'm looking more closely, the whole pistol lineup has rather bizarre ranges. 9mm Makarov, the one handgun that legend describes as more lethal thrown than fired has aimed range 20. Mk23 SOCOM, the super-shooty, 'offensive', 'tack driver' gun? Aimed range 18. A decades-old Mauser, presumably in 9mm Para: range 23. Super-tricked out Smart Magnum: range 16. Wildey, a gun that was originally meant as a kind of pocket rifle: aimed range 14. :o

Actually, I give up. :( I don't even want to look at any other stats, this is unsalvageable from a 'realism' POV without a big rewrite. Let's just pretend that in XCF-land, all cartridges were secretly replaced by aliens Illuminati at some point and leave it at that. I can do my own rewrite if I ever find enough time again.



Edit: Some more feedback:

I just encountered the new Red Dawn HQ and that's some impressive stuff! Very evil to the player, too, I approve. ;D

I do have to ask why are all these supersoldier wannabes in Red Dawn (plus Stormies and Cave-people) so wimpy Health-wise? I mean, they're supposed to be really manly and jacked up, but a e.g. BL Assassin, Brother of Apocalypse or even a rando postal dude beats every one of them except the Coordinators. Even a regular no-frills gangbanger is only 10% behind.

Why are even the wimpiest AI units now locked behind either getting lucky with Osiron crates or getting an alien engineer through processing? I mean, I'd understand if you were at least given a few parts to get a drone or two started as a teaser, but right now there's just no light drones before they're obsolete or you get lucky. :'(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 17, 2022, 11:26:38 am
There was a bug with Pioneers, who had only 35 HP instead of 50. Other than that, it looks okay... A top health human (elite officer) has only 45.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 17, 2022, 01:27:48 pm
Eh, if I was a gangbanger with 45 health and these RD dudes promised me another 5HP for swallowing their highly suspicious steroid cocktail that has a confirmed fatality rate, I'd be a little suspicious. :-\

I also thought these Pioneers were ex-Soviet-block soldiers who had not 'proven' themselves to Red Dawn, yet, and thus didn't have access to Storm.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 17, 2022, 07:05:34 pm
For some reason my OpenXcom can no longer find and run the mod as well as being unable to find my saves, despite it being in the mods folder, I have played it about 3 weeks ago and it worked fine, any suggestions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Fomka on June 17, 2022, 10:34:43 pm
For some reason my OpenXcom can no longer find and run the mod as well as being unable to find my saves, despite it being in the mods folder, I have played it about 3 weeks ago and it worked fine, any suggestions?
Have you mixed archive with mod and unpacked mod in the mods folder?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 18, 2022, 04:13:27 am
Have you mixed archive with mod and unpacked mod in the mods folder?
No, all the relevant mods are in the mods folder, as shown, as I said it was working a few weeks ago and I made no changes to the folders, also my OXCE version is 7.5.3.:
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Mathel on June 18, 2022, 09:46:35 am
Look into "C:/Users/[your user name]/My Documents/My Games/" for OpenXcom folder. It is possible OpenXcom is searching there, even though it shouldn't.
"./User/" exists and windows usually don't distinguish between cases. If OpenXcom is searching in your private folder, you can copy your mods and saves there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 18, 2022, 04:52:44 pm
Look into "C:/Users/[your user name]/My Documents/My Games/" for OpenXcom folder. It is possible OpenXcom is searching there, even though it shouldn't.
"./User/" exists and windows usually don't distinguish between cases. If OpenXcom is searching in your private folder, you can copy your mods and saves there.
Just had a look and there isnt an openxcom folder in there, and when I check the game it shows this as the pathway, the same folders i'm using.
I'm just going to try to reinstall the mod and see if it fixes the issue.
Yup it seems to have fixed the issue somehow.
By the way how do you get the 1st turn TU submod to work? Just put it into the Xcomfiles ruleset?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 21, 2022, 05:37:11 am
By the way how do you get the 1st turn TU submod to work? Just put it into the Xcomfiles ruleset?
Put it in the mods directory next to XCF itself. Possibly edit it to add Starving Poet's changes (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.msg119480.html#msg119480).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 21, 2022, 07:25:56 pm
Put it in the mods directory next to XCF itself. Possibly edit it to add Starving Poet's changes (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.msg119480.html#msg119480).
It shows up to be enabled only when I switch to UFO defence on the mods menu, will it still be enabled?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: krautbernd on June 21, 2022, 07:44:09 pm
It shows up to be enabled only when I switch to UFO defence on the mods menu, will it still be enabled?
You probably need to edit the yml and switch the master to x-com-files.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 22, 2022, 03:43:15 pm
You probably need to edit the yml and switch the master to x-com-files.
Yup that worked, thank you!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 22, 2022, 03:57:05 pm
This is definitely a nitpick but the sprite for the sten gun isn't a sten, it's a stirling smg.
Also isn't it odd that the Red Dawn Lad gives you Red Dawn network but the pioneer doesn't?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on June 22, 2022, 06:45:14 pm
This is definitely a nitpick but the sprite for the sten gun isn't a sten, it's a stirling smg.
Also isn't it odd that the Red Dawn Lad gives you Red Dawn network but the pioneer doesn't?

Can you get a Pioneer without a Lad?

Network unlocks the missions with Pioneers if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 22, 2022, 06:56:01 pm
Can you get a Pioneer without a Lad?

Network unlocks the missions with Pioneers if I recall correctly.
Well you can capture pioneers at safehouses and at least according to the tech tree viewer they don't unlock the Network.
Also I've been getting Church of Dagon missions in South America, is that intended?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 22, 2022, 09:54:03 pm
stirling
Really? :P

Can you get a Pioneer without a Lad?
Only if you shoot all the Lads, I think. Hideouts have both Lads and Pioneers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 23, 2022, 04:40:51 am
Really? :P
Hey man, I can't correct all my spelling errors, some are bound to slip through.  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 24, 2022, 12:06:05 pm
Eh, if I was a gangbanger with 45 health and these RD dudes promised me another 5HP for swallowing their highly suspicious steroid cocktail that has a confirmed fatality rate, I'd be a little suspicious. :-\

Low leve RD recruits are used to drink funny stuff all the time!
...actually, high level ones probably even more so.

I also thought these Pioneers were ex-Soviet-block soldiers who had not 'proven' themselves to Red Dawn, yet, and thus didn't have access to Storm.

First of all, not the Storm, but proper RD serum which is for the most part safe and efficient to use.
And even the lowliest gangers have access to it, so forbidding Pioneers from using it would make little sense. They're sort of junior officers, past the testing phase.

This is definitely a nitpick but the sprite for the sten gun isn't a sten, it's a stirling smg.

Are you sure? Nobody pointed out anything like this in years.

Also isn't it odd that the Red Dawn Lad gives you Red Dawn network but the pioneer doesn't?

The Pioneer should appear only after you discover their Network, but over the years something probably changed; I'll patch it just in case.

Also I've been getting Church of Dagon missions in South America, is that intended?

Yeah, although they are mostly active in Europe, they operate in the entire Atlantic (and possibly beyond).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 24, 2022, 02:08:44 pm
Low leve RD recruits are used to drink funny stuff all the time!
...
proper RD serum
I mean, it's more about the risk/reward ration. A random gopnik is at best familiar with Storm, not the RD serum. And even if the end result is demonstrated beforehand, it's just 45HP -> 50HP. Training and dieting (and regular steroids :D ) can give +10-20HP, as evidenced by the stats of civilians (and military 'civilians'). X-Com Bio-Enhancement does give +15, and Red Ops vs regular military is also about +15, so maybe the higher ranks do get a better serum.

But the point is, it's not a lot of reward for joining a suspiciously military gang that might not be a gang after all. It might be political, and your typical gopnik knows very well that you avoid becoming political.

But my biggest gripe is that this +5HP translates to about zero difference in gameplay. Your tactics for taking down a buff RD guy are the exact same as against a not-so-buff Dagonite or farmer. EXALT goons, MiB agents, Osiron, etc with their light armour are actually a bit different from a plain non-pathetic human. RD toughs sadly are not.

...forbidding Pioneers from using it would make little sense. They're sort of junior officers, past the testing phase.
If you say so. As long as they were weak and there was nothing to contradict that in the Ufopedia description (being an assistant can also be a test!), I could very well think that they were cannon-fodder-in-training. In fact, they were depicted as ensign/junior lieutenant types, and we all know how these fellas are. :D

Come to think of it, where are the guys who're still in the testing phase? A little strange that they are not fielded anywhere.

Are you sure? Nobody pointed out anything like this in years.
"Nobody bothered to correct me" is not an argument. You really need to familiarise yourself with how iconic firearms look if you're going to make a 'gun porn' mod.

But, okay: Sten (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STEN_MK_II_submachinegun.png), Sterling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sterling_SMG.JPG). Note the barrel shroud.

Now, the Sten gun did come in a few different marks (https://www.ww2-weapons.com/sten-gun/). The above is the most popular and iconic one, Mark II. Mark III did look a lot more like the bigob. But none of them had that exact kind of perforated barrel shroud (though Mark III came close and some others could have somewhat similar sound suppressors).

The Pioneer should appear only after you discover their Network, but over the years something probably changed...
Cult Suppression missions also have both Lads and Pioneers. They're kind of a 'failure to Network' thing, though. And even then both Lads and Pioneers appear in them. I don't know of a single mission that only has Lads.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on June 24, 2022, 03:52:00 pm
Cult Suppression missions also have both Lads and Pioneers. They're kind of a 'failure to Network' thing, though. And even then both Lads and Pioneers appear in them. I don't know of a single mission that only has Lads.

Safehouses are only Gangsters and Lads, I believe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 24, 2022, 05:05:59 pm
Safehouses are only Gangsters and Lads, I believe.
Nuh-uh.

From alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul (2.5 edition):
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_CULT_INVESTIGATION_ZSRR
    ...
    alert: STR_ALERT_CULT_INVESTIGATION
    alertBackground: ZSRR_LADS_BACKGROUND.SCR
    alertDescription: STR_CULT_INVESTIGATION_ZSRR_DESCRIPTION
    ...
      desc: STR_CULT_INVESTIGATION_BRIEFING
    ...
    data:
      - alienRank: 5
        lowQty: 2
        highQty: 8
        dQty: 4
      ...
      - alienRank: 4
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 0
      ...
      - alienRank: 3
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 0
      ...
From alienRaces_XCOMFILES.rul:
Code: [Select]
  - id: STR_ZSRR
    members:
      - STR_ZSRR_UBEK                         // rank 0
      - STR_ZSRR_MATROS                     // rank 1
      - STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_FEMALE       // rank 2
      - STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_MALE          // rank 3
      - STR_ZSRR_MOLOLEC                  // rank 4 - Lad
      - STR_ZSRR_GANGER                   // rank 5
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_MALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_MALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_MOLOLEC
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE

It's not even that Pioneers would fail to show up sometimes. There's always at least one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Thunderwing280 on June 25, 2022, 03:54:35 am
It's not even that Pioneers would fail to show up sometimes. There's always at least one.
Yeah that's what I've seen, it makes sense lore wise too tbh, having a low rank officer to organise the rank and file.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 28, 2022, 05:21:07 pm
But my biggest gripe is that this +5HP translates to about zero difference in gameplay.

I honestly don't feel this way. The buff in HP is rather noticeable (though not as much as EXALT's armour).

"Nobody bothered to correct me" is not an argument. You really need to familiarise yourself with how iconic firearms look if you're going to make a 'gun porn' mod.

It's not an argument, I LITERALLY ASKED YOU IF YOU WERE SURE.

I've never even heard of these guns before someone gave me the graphics... Honestly, who knows all this crap by heart? Why? I wouldn't have imagined it before releasing XCF...
I might do something about it if I have the energy to do so, but honestly, this is not something I expected to be a thing. I don't think more than a few people I knw can tell a difference between a pistol and a revolver, and here I get bombarded with all this meaningful nitpicking. Then again, factual accuracy is important to me...
What's next, complaints about alien physiology not conforming to PhD level biology because enzyme X cannot do Y? :P

But, okay: Sten (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STEN_MK_II_submachinegun.png), Sterling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sterling_SMG.JPG). Note the barrel shroud.

WTF is a "barrel shroud"?

Now, the Sten gun did come in a few different marks (https://www.ww2-weapons.com/sten-gun/). The above is the most popular and iconic one, Mark II. Mark III did look a lot more like the bigob. But none of them had that exact kind of perforated barrel shroud (though Mark III came close and some others could have somewhat similar sound suppressors).

Can't say they're much different (as both look like scrap with a metal bar), but okay :)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 28, 2022, 06:51:15 pm
I honestly don't feel this way. The buff in HP is rather noticeable...
Okay, give me an example. Or another player can tell me that their experience is also different. Because mine is quite the opposite. Even +15 is not very noticeable.

In most situations, a Disciple of Dagon takes 1-2 taps with a light weapon to go down, and 1 with a heavy one. A Red Dawn Ganger/Lad is the same, except the OHKOs are somewhat rarer. Not enough to translate to any difference in how I treat the two. I've now killed at least a few hundred of either in relatively close succession, and their survivability is entirely too close. Both are significantly more likely to survive a single hit than the weakest enemies/civilians, and neither is worth any special consideration a la trying to shoot Goons and Enforcers in the back.

When I'm in the Gang War and occasionally gank a 'red' ganger for his weapons, I literally can not tell their survivability from their opponents. That's the +5 HP situation.

It's not an argument, I LITERALLY ASKED YOU IF YOU WERE SURE.
Why did you add this extra wordage, then? The question would have been the same without this bit. I could only read it as a reason for you to doubt my Thunderwing120's word. But whatever.

I've never even heard of these guns before someone gave me the graphics... Honestly, who knows all this crap by heart?
People who play 'gun porn' games. Firearms enthusiasts. History buffs focused on whatever period these come from.

I might do something about it if I have the energy to do so, but honestly, this is not something I expected to be a thing.
As I told you before, by going the 'gun porn' route you made your own bed. :P

And switching some strings around to say "Sterling" instead of "Sten" is not much work. Well, the history blurb would also need replacing. Sterling is not as famous as Sten, and I guess it's greatest claim to fame is being the official British SMG for most of post-WW2, and being used as a base for Star Wars blasters.

What's next, complaints about alien physiology not conforming to PhD level biology because enzyme X cannot do Y?
Well, it's mostly been you who's concerned with such details. :P

WTF is a "barrel shroud"?
The perforated cylinder around the business end of the gun. What, you thought a 9mm SMG has such a beefy barrel? :P

Can't say they're much different (as both look like scrap with a metal bar), but okay :)
Well, Mk 1 and Mk 5 have wooden furniture, but yeah, the entire point of Sten was that it was scrap metal masquerading as a gun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: krautbernd on June 28, 2022, 07:29:02 pm
I might do something about it if I have the energy to do so, but honestly, this is not something I expected to be a thing. I don't think more than a few people I knw can tell a difference between a pistol and a revolver, and here I get bombarded with all this meaningful nitpicking. Then again, factual accuracy is important to me...
As far as I'm concerned this isn't much of an issue. You're taking some many other freedoms with other real-world analogues in the game that being pendandic about a subset of firearms is kind of pointless. The mod takes place in an alternate history anyway, so who's to say that the guns have to be identical with the weapons they're based on? I mean even the laws of nature in XCF don't conform to our world, why do the guns have to be depicted in a perfectly identical manner? Given that history has turned out differently, why should gun designs/designers/companies be exempt from this? It's a perfectly viable choice to use "alternate" designs in my oppinion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 28, 2022, 07:47:08 pm
The mod takes place in an alternate history anyway, so who's to say that the guns have to be identical with the weapons they're based on?
Because people who play for 'gun porn' expect that to be roughly accurate. That's actually the usual reason to make 'gun porn', you can draw from RL , for stats and to have it resonate with players who have a personal preference due to other games or RL. A half-assed attempt satisfies no one.

I would have little issue with the whole thing if Solarius used slightly fictional or generic weapons. Baretta instead of Beretta, "9mm Pistol" or "9mm Army Pistol" or "Army Pistol" instead of Beretta 92/M9. If Sten/Sterling was an 'Old 9mm SMG' or something, no-one would care which exact sprite it uses.

But, well, what's done is done. Unless Solarius feels particularly masochistic, we can only expect to get the most glaring mistakes to be fixed.



On a completely different topic, why are Crop Circle and Cattle Mutilation farmers always male? Are they hiding their women and children under the bed? :D



Edit: Strange that the Flame Glove does not have a handob. I have this one, and I can't recall where I got it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Corento on June 29, 2022, 02:59:46 pm
people playing "gun porn" games do not play games where the gun visualisation is made by let say 16x10 pixels, you will realy will not see the marking of the producer on it.
So you cannot say if your gun is Beretta, or brazilian Taurus, or another xyz copy in real world. So it is 9mm pistol, why not ?

I see no mistakes in game (unless something is broken, bug, or so) - graphic is pixel art, intentionaly looking like old 1994 Xcoms, and that exactly why me, Solarius and another few thousends ppl here playing this games and modes - we are "classic games porn"  players, where extreme realism do not play the role.

just for fun I would like to see your comment how real are all the sci fi monsters and aliens ? Did you met them? are they exactly as you saw them ?

So then if one important thing in the game cannot be absolutly real, why should be all others ?

I guess you saw few movies or series where in future soldiers has G36 and P90 guns, which are actually from 1970+ in real life. That I guess tearing you appart when you watching it.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on June 29, 2022, 04:32:19 pm
people playing "gun porn" games do not play games where the gun visualisation is made by let say 16x10 pixels, you will realy will not see the marking of the producer on it.
You have a pretty restricted concept of what 'gun porn' is. JA2 v1.13, possibly the most 'gun porn' game in existence, had a shitload of crappy dark silhouettes of guns cropped from photos that had neither visible producer markings nor even much detail.

So you cannot say if your gun is Beretta, or brazilian Taurus, or another xyz copy in real world
Yeah, you can't get that. So what, it is not a binary choice between 'gun porn with exact model, year of manufacture and armourer's signature' and 'no gun porn'.

I see no mistakes in game (unless something is broken, bug, or so) - graphic is pixel art...
Which is a bullshit argument when your picture is visibly closer to another well-known gun, even as a tiny-ass sprite. Are you telling me if Solarius made the Beretta use the Mauser sprite, it'd be okay, 'no mistakes', because they both 9mm pistols? All the while being specifically identified as a Beretta?

If it doesn't matter, why even have specific manufacturers and models?

that exactly why me, Solarius and another few thousends ppl here playing this games and modes - we are "classic games porn"  players, where extreme realism do not play the role.
Classic games are no different than modern ones in the 'extreme realism' department. There are some that go very deep, and some that do not. I do not play XCF for the pixel art, I play it because nobody has managed to make a better X-Com game since. I think you'll find that quite a few of the 'thousends' do it for the same reason, not because they're 'classic'.

just for fun I would like to see your comment how real are all the sci fi monsters and aliens ? Did you met them? are they exactly as you saw them ?
They are exactly as I saw them. :P

The difference is that there are no examples of real monsters and aliens. There are tons of examples of guns, and rather extensive data on how they work.

If Solarius had a definite claim (and, better yet, an entry in the Ufopedia) that "guns and gun manufacturers were taken over by aliens/Illuminati and produced some weird shit due to that, which is strangely enough still named the same", fair enough. Right now, I'm not sure he even knows with certainty which way he wants to go.

So then if one important thing in the game cannot be absolutly real, why should be all others ?
This is the stupid argument of "Why can't I have a thousand 300-foot pet dragons, read everyone's mind and be the super-special elf-fairy-angel princess? John can cast 'Fireball', it's all fantasy, everything is possible!".

This is in fact a rather central theme in SF. What if this was so, yet everything else remained as close to reality as possible? Read the book, watch the movie or play the game to find out.

By your argument, why are X-Com operatives not all 3-foot-tall Ratmen, armed with lethal bubble guns and tail knives? We have aliens, why not? Whyyy not?!

It's a silly argument on par with "it's what my character would do".

Solarius himself has his own 'realism' arguments regarding why Taser Cannons cannot shoot more than twice or why only 'live' matter can be psionic, which are both quite a bit more fantastic than the Illuminati switching Sten and Sterling around. Clearly 'realism' matters to some degree in this mod.

I guess you saw few movies or series where in future soldiers has G36 and P90 guns, which are actually from 1970+ in real life.
That 1970+ is actually 1990+. I'm not bothered by people using old firearms. There can even be good reasons for that, cf. the current fucknuggetry in Ukraine.

I am bothered by fictional Russians rushing Kherson, M14s in hand and driving AMX-30s. And I'm bothered by AKM's and AKSU-74s firing the same ammo (which got fixed). YMMV.



Ending on a more fun note, wonder why this Maid is being kept in a cage next to an operating table? These Red Dawn guys seem to be into some weird shit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Corento on July 01, 2022, 11:21:10 am
OK I see, you are the person with zero tolerance to arguments of other people. Nothing against you, you grow up like this.
I´m a king of person who eat sausage with mustard, ketchup or apple, I do not care... if you understand...

But you have to understand that Solarius and other contributors spend thousend of hours on this game, where they have to think about how to spent them effectively.
Not be in position like Star citizen, where everything looks great, but the game is barelly playable even after 8 years and bambilion of money.

So let them do their work how they wanted, because they are authors of their dreams and imaginations.
Do not tell Van Gogh how to paint his own pictures.

If you really miss all these thing you wrote about, just make your own mod, spend hundreds of hours and release it here, I think lot of people here will enjoy your work.
If you are able to do so... I´m not, I have to be creative in my job, after job I want just enjoy the game as the author made it. If I like it I will play it, if it frustrate me I will go look elsewhere.

Have a nice day and spent a little time to praise people around not just criticize, they will like you more :)

Maid just cleaning the cage and maybe smoke cigarette there, what is wrong about it? Your soldiers fall in, with nasty guns, killing everything.... and she just want to do her job as every day.... :(  bad bad xcom...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 01, 2022, 12:11:14 pm
OK I see, you are the person with zero tolerance to arguments of other people.
I have nothing against good arguments. I can acknowledge such and have done so before.

What I have little patience for is poor arguments, or attempts at shutting down all criticism altogether.

But you have to understand that Solarius and other contributors spend thousend of hours on this game, where they have to think about how to spent them effectively.
I am fully aware. I am a modder myself, and in fact made a substantial mini-fork of XCF in the early days. I'm even in the credits for a tiny contribution or two.

I have also spent quite a few hours in the last few months changing the mod around to fix the most egregious things (IMO, of course).

You should take your own advice and do some research before lecturing.

So let them do their work how they wanted, because they are authors of their dreams and imaginations.
Do not tell Van Gogh how to paint his own pictures.
Yeah, why invite feedback in the first place, then? This is another one of these stupid arguments along the lines of "I only play as the creator(s) intended!" If we follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, XCF should not exist and X-Com itself should have had no Geoscape because Gollop didn't come up with it.

If you really miss all these thing you wrote about, just make your own mod, spend hundreds of hours and release it here, I think lot of people here will enjoy your work.
I have in fact had such a plan on the back burner for... five years now? I occasionally even collect and polish resources for that. But I have other interests and projects, too, not to mention RL. And even using Solarius's work as a base, it's a mountain of work.

You can find an embryonic mod from the early days still up around here.

If you are able to do so... I´m not, I have to be creative in my job, after job I want just enjoy the game as the author made it. If I like it I will play it, if it frustrate me I will go look elsewhere.
And why should your way of enjoying the game supercede mine? Because this is basically what you're saying here: "Enjoy the mod as it is or get out, no criticism allowed!" I hope you understand why I don't like such an attitude.

Have a nice day and spent a little time to praise people around not just criticize, they will like you more
I'm not here to get likes. I'm here to help make the mod better. If Solarius gets some use out of the arguments of myself or others for some specific change or feature, all good. If he does not still like it, he can say no and I can respect that. Look at the Liquidator armour proposal, for example.

You are trying to shoot down any and all arguments beforehand via "praise not criticism" and "van Gogh". The previous argument was "not real, therefore no reasoning can apply, ever, anywhere". IMO, both are some fine echo chamber advocacy right there.



Maid just cleaning the cage and maybe smoke cigarette there, what is wrong about it? Your soldiers fall in, with nasty guns, killing everything.... and she just want to do her job as every day.... bad bad xcom...
No guns. My X-Com tases and kidnaps all the maids for their own use. ;D



Edit: What does "...particularly effective against lightly armored targets." mean for the Pulse SMG (and presumably other Pulse weapons)? AFAICT, right now this is just a way to hide the true power of these guns from players who do not use the INFO button.



Edit2: Speaking of praise, I just ran into a Hacienda for the first time. No idea why I hadn't seen one before. Well, RNG. It's probably my favourite 'new' mission. I would even call it a Mansion done right. ;D Was even a little disappointed that the end boss was 'just' a Fixer.

I especially liked how the most heavily armed guys were defending the meat locker, pockets stuffed with dollar bills. Shows where their priorities are were. :D



Edit3: Never though about it before, but why are dogs barred from Asylum Apparitions but rats and bats are not? Because both are slightly supernatural themselves? Hmm, that doesn't really seem to be a good answer.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: SladeHiro on July 02, 2022, 02:19:19 pm
Thanks for the great mod.

Are you sure? Nobody pointed out anything like this in years.

Personally no idea about the accuracy, looked on google images and seems to be the sterling.
I attached a pixel art I did of the sten gun I saw on google, by modifying the image of the one already in the mod.

don't know if it's good enough though, not a gun person.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 02, 2022, 04:33:32 pm
The sprite kinda looks like Mark 5, but lacks its foregrip. And Mark V is a less known gun, used to (slowly) supplement earlier marks and served for less than ten years after the war. Compared to Mark II and Sterling, it's a pretty niche gun.



Edit: Mecascorpion round table. Wonder what the topics for the panel discussions are? :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Fomka on July 03, 2022, 02:01:20 pm

Edit: Mecascorpion round table. Wonder what the topics for the panel discussions are? :D
The first topic: Why did the chicken cross the road?
The second: Why should they cross the road?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 03, 2022, 02:18:37 pm
;D

Solarius really needs to put a chicken on every road map.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on July 03, 2022, 05:53:37 pm
;D

Solarius really needs to put a chicken on every road map.

There was a time when a chicken could pick a rocket launcher. Alas, this breed is now lost to us.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 03, 2022, 06:03:50 pm
Well, that answers the first question. The chicken crossed the road to pick up the rocket launcher. ;D

Also, I thought the best-known version used a sniper rifle?



Edit: Just had a thought. I get that it's largely a gameplay contrivance to make dogs more useful, but why do dogs and rats get motion sensors whereas it's actually the bats who genuinely have a sort of motion sensor 'built in', yet they get nothing?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: tarkalak on July 03, 2022, 07:40:58 pm
Well, that answers the first question. The chicken crossed the road to pick up the rocket launcher. ;D

Also, I thought the best-known version used a sniper rifle?



Edit: Just had a thought. I get that it's largely a gameplay contrivance to make dogs more useful, but why do dogs and rats get motion sensors whereas it's actually the bats who genuinely have a sort of motion sensor 'built in', yet they get nothing?

It simulates smelling, I think. And the game has nothing else to use but Motion scanners.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 03, 2022, 08:09:46 pm
I'm aware. The point being, I don't think sniffing around vs echolocation are all that different in terms of outcome wrt Motion-Sensor-like mechanics. Neither fits very well, and both fit somewhat. So why are bats discriminated against here? :P

Also, dogs are the best animals, yet the easiest to acquire. Rats pretty much have only their niche of scouting around walls, sniffing around and hoping they're small enough that nobody notices them. Bats get to be flying, nighttime scouts. Yet a drone is much better as a scout, unless you like losing your pets all the time. And a dog is a passable scout, gets armour, sniffing, barking and a much stronger bite.

The tamed cryptids are a gimmick is what I'm saying here. And not a very good one. If bats had very high nighttime camo and their bite drained TU, one might try to use them to pick off isolated targets, assassin-style. Right now, not so much. Rats are even worse and fall off badly when enemies start sporting armour.

I suppose I have no real grounds to complain since animals being worse than humans at squad-level warfare is pretty realistic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: SladeHiro on July 03, 2022, 11:12:51 pm
Also, dogs are the best animals, yet the easiest to acquire.

Not sure about the cryptid not got one of them yet. But feel the rats and bats are better than you think. Though may just be a subjective thing

Dogs are easiest to get and start off fairly competent.

Bats start off quite weak but can fly. You can train them up and they are actually quite strong at picking off stragglers once you get their melee accuracy up and health. They are insanely hard to hit in melee unlike dogs so gunfire is what they need to worry about.
So run up to someone so they cqc instead of shoot, and the bat is going to be fine.
Get their health up so they survive a shot and their attack heals their health making them able to live even with fatal wounds providing you keep attacking people.

Rats I don't use much but from what I see. They start with a weak bite but their attack is based off strength meaning getting their strength up can make them hurt as it's power bonus is 5*strength. Which I may be wrong with how I think its calculated so correct me if I'm wrong but a rat at 10 strength would have an attack of 5+(5*10) so 55 Which would be 15 more than the dogs bite. Get 20 strength on a rat and your looking at an attack of 105 meaning a highly trained rat can be quite powerful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 04, 2022, 12:03:38 am
Not sure about the cryptid not got one of them yet.
I'm not sure where you live that ROUS and blood-sucking bats are not cryptids to you. :-\

But feel the rats and bats are better than you think. Though may just be a subjective thing
Possibly.

Bats start off quite weak but can fly.
I feel flying is kinda wasted on the bats. It allows them to scout a bit better, but the big problem with scouting is attracting fire. And bats just die to bullets. OTOH, you don't want to fly your bat into the thick of things, and getting to stragglers is rarely helped by flying.

You can train them up and they are actually quite strong at picking off stragglers once you get their melee accuracy up and health.
Well, okay, maybe I underestimated them a little. Possibly because I play with CQB requiring TU (and consider the vanilla version a dirty cheat :P), which means they're not quite as invulnerable in melee.

Still, it means the bat is one failed CQB roll away from dying, since even at max HP (30) they might take a weak bullet and live. A TU drain would work well to complement that.

They are insanely hard to hit in melee...
Hmm, true. So against melee-only enemies they're actually pretty OK. Then again, that's mostly cryptids and zombies. Pretty much anything that's an actual fight slings lead at you, in quantity.

They start with a weak bite but their attack is based off strength meaning getting their strength up can make them hurt as it's power bonus is 5*strength. Which I may be wrong with how I think its calculated so correct me if I'm wrong but a rat at 10 strength would have an attack of 5+(5*10) so 55 Which would be 15 more than the dogs bite. Get 20 strength on a rat and your looking at an attack of 105 meaning a highly trained rat can be quite powerful.
Sadly, a rat will never get that kind of strength. They max out at 2, which means the best they can hope for is 6 strengh from maxing their experience roll at 6. And that requires risking them in battle before they train to 2 strength. Typically, a rat will have 2-4 strength, and 2 is rather common due to training.

They do get armor piercing bite :o and the ability to gnaw armour to bits, so in theory they might still be worth something. Sadly, having a rat try gnawing through armour tends to result in a dead rat. I guess if you have a large transport and constantly breed new rats, you can play ratmeister and send a few rats in as kamikazes every now and then.

The only real niche rats have is their stealth and ability to see through walls.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: SladeHiro on July 04, 2022, 02:51:37 am
I'm not sure where you live that ROUS and blood-sucking bats are not cryptids to you. :-\

my bad I read what you said as a cryptid being something different I haden't seen yet lol.

I feel flying is kinda wasted on the bats. It allows them to scout a bit better, but the big problem with scouting is attracting fire. And bats just die to bullets. OTOH, you don't want to fly your bat into the thick of things,
Yeah you don't want to fly into the thick of things unless you can hit and run back to safety, which would be risky.
Though sometimes I will send my bat into a building and run them out hit something close enough and run back in. behind an inside door if possible.

Well, okay, maybe I underestimated them a little. Possibly because I play with CQB requiring TU.

I'm playing with just x-com files so yeah that would make you need to reserve tu's to make them not get shot point blank it sounds like, but the bat does get a nice amount of them.
30 HP to start you mean? my bat in my game I'm playing now has more HP then that.

Sadly, a rat will never get that kind of strength.
you may be right. I'll find out since I'm going to try and train a rat up in my current game. I may well be disappointed. lol

Attached an image of the stats of a bat i got in my current game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 04, 2022, 06:37:53 am
30 HP to start you mean? my bat in my game I'm playing now has more HP then that.
No, just 10-15 to start. If you look closely, the thick bar in your picture ends exactly at 30. The rest is from commendations.

I guess a bat actually can work as a "can't touch this!" skirmisher. And health commendations are rather more powerful for them due to low HP.

My big issue is that I can't really use the bat in any situation where I'd normally use an armoured soldier, because every mistake is more costly. I suppose there are segments of the game where everyone is equally vulnerable and bats work quite well in that case.



Edit: Moved the post here, because it's not a bug. Well, unless you use older slang for aliens and consider Hybrids such. :D


A hybrid chopping firewood. Those Chemtrails don't run on solar, you know.



Edit2: Okay, who had the bright idea to put a freaking MiB Shock Trooper into a mission at about the two-year mark? :o Is this some Heavy Cannon fetish I'm not aware of?

Because the one way to ruin a player's fun is to put in a faction that's supposedly roughly comparable, and then proceed to cheat the hell out of them. It almost made me quit right there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on July 08, 2022, 11:22:02 am
Apologies if this isn't an appropriate place to post a suggestion - but I was thinking about the various xcom animals and it occurs to me that they all fall into the "relatively weak but nimble" category. Given that fenrir wolves have very little presence in the mod currently, have you considered the possibility of a dog-specific form of bio-enhancement that transforms them into a fenrir wolf? I think it has a lot of interesting potential tactically, almost like an organic tank with fangs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: krautbernd on July 08, 2022, 02:52:32 pm
Apologies if this isn't an appropriate place to post a suggestion - but I was thinking about the various xcom animals and it occurs to me that they all fall into the "relatively weak but nimble" category. Given that fenrir wolves have very little presence in the mod currently, have you considered the possibility of a dog-specific form of bio-enhancement that transforms them into a fenrir wolf? I think it has a lot of interesting potential tactically, almost like an organic tank with fangs.
Fenrir wolf would make for a lousy tank, not withstading that it would be hampered on basically every level by being a melee-only 4x4 unit. Pit an exisiting player tank unit against a fenrir wolf and see how well it fairs. Just a guess, but the wolf is probably going to die from a single salvo from a rocket or cannon unless it starts in close proximity said tank and gets extremely lucky with the damage rolls.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 08, 2022, 09:21:10 pm
Well, Fenrir wolves will probably come and go before you get an actual tank, unless you beeline for those.

I do want me some tamed Reapers, though. :D Mmm, fluffy!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on July 09, 2022, 04:54:30 am
Fenrir wolf would make for a lousy tank, not withstading that it would be hampered on basically every level by being a melee-only 4x4 unit. Pit an exisiting player tank unit against a fenrir wolf and see how well it fairs. Just a guess, but the wolf is probably going to die from a single salvo from a rocket or cannon unless it starts in close proximity said tank and gets extremely lucky with the damage rolls.

When I say "Tank" I mean higher health relative to the regular dogs, not in comparison to a literal tank. Especially in the early game the wolves can take quite a few hits from small-arms. I would imagine as an upgraded dog having stronger bite/bark and sensor ability would keep them relevant in their own way.

I also tend to use the regular dogs as a way to rapidly transport equipment across the map, and having an upgraded dog able to carry more equipment would serve a purpose the armored vehicles simply do not. Strapping on some spare rockets, medpacks, ammunition, or whatever else your crew needs will go a long way to transforming your seemingly limited melee unit into a versatile logistical support unit. With armor that gave the wolf a "backpack" I can also easily imagine getting a ton of use simply having it carry wounded/stunned units back to the ship.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Fomka on July 09, 2022, 01:21:40 pm
When I say "Tank" I mean higher health relative to the regular dogs, not in comparison to a literal tank. Especially in the early game the wolves can take quite a few hits from small-arms. I would imagine as an upgraded dog having stronger bite/bark and sensor ability would keep them relevant in their own way.
I wasn't impressed by Fenrir wolves, but yes, they can be relevant - if clad in cyber armor.

I also tend to use the regular dogs as a way to rapidly transport equipment across the map, and having an upgraded dog able to carry more equipment would serve a purpose the armored vehicles simply do not. Strapping on some spare rockets, medpacks, ammunition, or whatever else your crew needs will go a long way to transforming your seemingly limited melee unit into a versatile logistical support unit. With armor that gave the wolf a "backpack" I can also easily imagine getting a ton of use simply having it carry wounded/stunned units back to the ship.
Dogs have pockets removed in 2.4 version (or earlier?). I used them to carry some things before, but now it is not possible: they have no backpack, no belt, no pockets and both "hand" slots are occupied. What version do you use?

A dog carrying wounded agent for evacuation will be a nice feature to have. Or a dog that can run into a cult's safehouse, grab a money briefcase and go back for evac...

I'm thinking on make dogs with one free "hand" slot. This way a dog can carry one thing of any size, simulating dog's mouth-grab. Investigation on whether the Bark and the Bite can be assigned to one slot is needed. Can someone answer the question - is it possible to combine dog's bark and dog's bite into one weapon item with two use modes?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 09, 2022, 01:30:31 pm
Can someone answer the question - is it possible to combine dog's bark and dog's bite into one weapon item with two use modes?
Maybe by turning the bite into a gunbutt weapon? Not sure, but I think you'll lose reaction biting that way.

Otherwise, I don't think so. The dogs are already laden with built-in weapons.

Maybe just give them a belt or backpack slot.



Edit: Wonder what's so interesting about these bushes? :D



Edit2: How about adding a guy like that? I feel there's a lack of Really Manly dudes on the RD side. Sadly, I can't draw, so I can't make him a truly awesome mansome paperdoll. :'(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on July 11, 2022, 07:29:05 am
I wasn't impressed by Fenrir wolves, but yes, they can be relevant - if clad in cyber armor.
Dogs have pockets removed in 2.4 version (or earlier?). I used them to carry some things before, but now it is not possible: they have no backpack, no belt, no pockets and both "hand" slots are occupied. What version do you use?

A dog carrying wounded agent for evacuation will be a nice feature to have. Or a dog that can run into a cult's safehouse, grab a money briefcase and go back for evac...

I'm currently playing 2.5 and my dogs have pockets? They just have to be wearing dog combat gear. Unless I've been hallucinating furry guided missiles carrying hi-ex payloads for the last hundred missions or so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Fomka on July 11, 2022, 04:02:23 pm
Maybe by turning the bite into a gunbutt weapon? Not sure, but I think you'll lose reaction biting that way.
Otherwise, I don't think so. The dogs are already laden with built-in weapons.
Maybe just give them a belt or backpack slot.
Thanks for the hint about possible loss of reaction bite.

I'm currently playing 2.5 and my dogs have pockets? They just have to be wearing dog combat gear. Unless I've been hallucinating furry guided missiles carrying hi-ex payloads for the last hundred missions or so.
Dog combat gear are the right words. Sorry for the confusion, I actually forgot about that. Dogs are pocketable with right gear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 11, 2022, 10:04:04 pm
What is that at the back of the Syndicate Mercenary supposed to be? Do they have eyes at the backs of their heads? :o



Edit: So that's where the BL ninjas practice their swordsmanship. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 14, 2022, 02:59:47 pm
Okay, give me an example. Or another player can tell me that their experience is also different. Because mine is quite the opposite. Even +15 is not very noticeable.

In most situations, a Disciple of Dagon takes 1-2 taps with a light weapon to go down, and 1 with a heavy one. A Red Dawn Ganger/Lad is the same, except the OHKOs are somewhat rarer. Not enough to translate to any difference in how I treat the two. I've now killed at least a few hundred of either in relatively close succession, and their survivability is entirely too close. Both are significantly more likely to survive a single hit than the weakest enemies/civilians, and neither is worth any special consideration a la trying to shoot Goons and Enforcers in the back.

When I'm in the Gang War and occasionally gank a 'red' ganger for his weapons, I literally can not tell their survivability from their opponents. That's the +5 HP situation.

Well, I do feel that they're sturdier, but it's purely subjective and I'm not the best judge.

Still, what would I do? Add 10 HP to all Red Dawn people across the board?
1) This would make them significantly harder, and they're already the most difficult cult from the starting 4 (at least in my view) due to their sniper/spotter specialization.
2) I would have to give the same buff to enhanced X-Com agents. Not a game breaker, but +25 HP is perhaps too much at once.
3) It would logically require adding the same buff to many other enemies from some later organizations like the MiB, the Syndicate, the UAC... All these have access to biotech at a level equal to or surpassing Red Dawn's, so it would also buff them. Not sure if it's okay, but maybe.

Why did you add this extra wordage, then? The question would have been the same without this bit. I could only read it as a reason for you to doubt my Thunderwing120's word. But whatever.

Sorry if it came off as rude, that wasn't my intention. But if you point out an error after literally years of everything being a-okay, I think I'm justified in being a little sceptical.

People who play 'gun porn' games. Firearms enthusiasts. History buffs focused on whatever period these come from.

Oh dear. What am I supposed to answer? It's like a geologist shown up one day and started berating me for rocks in the desert being the wrong colour. I am all for realism when possible, but I am not omniscient and this is a game.

On a personal level, during 42 years of my life and having lived in several countries across Europe, I've never met these types of people you mentioned and I won't pretend to be particularly concerned about their needs. To me they are an exotic internet phenomena like all the weird crap you see on the net.

But in the end of the day, I am totally fine with replacing the Sten sprite if someone makes a proper one, since I do care about accuracy. I'm not doing it myself, since I have no gun drawing skills. I'll ask around for help.

EDIT: I saw SladeHiro's sprite, and thanks man, much appreciated. But from the context it appears disputable as a candidate for the generic Sten. Awaiting further developments.

As I told you before, by going the 'gun porn' route you made your own bed. :P

Dude, I had no idea 'gun porn' was a thing. How was I supposed to expect something like this? :P

And switching some strings around to say "Sterling" instead of "Sten" is not much work. Well, the history blurb would also need replacing. Sterling is not as famous as Sten, and I guess it's greatest claim to fame is being the official British SMG for most of post-WW2, and being used as a base for Star Wars blasters.

I'd rather replace the sprite and leave the stats and descriptions alone.

Well, it's mostly been you who's concerned with such details. :P

Making such a remark about arguing about some old gun nobody cares about is cringe, bro.

The perforated cylinder around the business end of the gun. What, you thought a 9mm SMG has such a beefy barrel? :P

I can't say I've had any thoughts regarding that. It's just a fucking gun.

On a completely different topic, why are Crop Circle and Cattle Mutilation farmers always male? Are they hiding their women and children under the bed? :D

Technical reasons. I tried changing this once or twice, and dropped due to being too involved.

Edit: Strange that the Flame Glove does not have a handob. I have this one, and I can't recall where I got it.

Thanks, the concept is pretty cool, but I'm not sure if it's positioned correctly... I'll use it and maybe tweak this later.
Since the author is unknown, I'll credit you as the sprite provider, OK?

Solarius really needs to put a chicken on every road map.

It would be easy, as long as you don't care about the number of chickens. ;)

Edit: Just had a thought. I get that it's largely a gameplay contrivance to make dogs more useful, but why do dogs and rats get motion sensors whereas it's actually the bats who genuinely have a sort of motion sensor 'built in', yet they get nothing?

Hmm, I guess I could give them their own motion scanner analogue. Todolisted.

The tamed cryptids are a gimmick is what I'm saying here. And not a very good one. If bats had very high nighttime camo and their bite drained TU, one might try to use them to pick off isolated targets, assassin-style. Right now, not so much. Rats are even worse and fall off badly when enemies start sporting armour.

I suppose I have no real grounds to complain since animals being worse than humans at squad-level warfare is pretty realistic.

I have some loose ideas regarding improving these issues, but not sure yet how to make them not too silly.

But I actually buffed bats' camo. They probably deserved it. (Enemy bats too, of course.)

Apologies if this isn't an appropriate place to post a suggestion - but I was thinking about the various xcom animals and it occurs to me that they all fall into the "relatively weak but nimble" category. Given that fenrir wolves have very little presence in the mod currently, have you considered the possibility of a dog-specific form of bio-enhancement that transforms them into a fenrir wolf? I think it has a lot of interesting potential tactically, almost like an organic tank with fangs.

I've considered this, but their entire shtick is being 2 savage 4 this Earth, so I can't see taming them any more than taming... well, pretty much any other animal.

Maybe I'll make a special mission with them. Perhaps mixed with werevolves. I don't have any groundbreaking ideas.

Well, Fenrir wolves will probably come and go before you get an actual tank, unless you beeline for those.

I do want me some tamed Reapers, though. :D Mmm, fluffy!

Yeah, that's a bit more realistic. ;)

Edit2: How about adding a guy like that? I feel there's a lack of Really Manly dudes on the RD side. Sadly, I can't draw, so I can't make him a truly awesome mansome paperdoll. :'(

You know, I'm not against this! :)

What is that at the back of the Syndicate Mercenary supposed to be? Do they have eyes at the backs of their heads? :o

It's just a green finishing on their backpack. Not on the face level and more clearly visible from other angles.

Edit: So that's where the BL ninjas practice their swordsmanship. :D

No, that's where they practice their cooking skills. Food porn anime and all that.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 14, 2022, 04:51:29 pm
Still, what would I do? Add 10 HP to all Red Dawn people across the board?
1) This would make them significantly harder, and they're already the most difficult cult from the starting 4 (at least in my view) due to their sniper/spotter specialization.
Hmm, I get the problem. Well, I myself did exactly that, gave RD 10-20 extra HP across the board. But I also nerfed sniping a lot, for everyone. Because I really dislike it as a general-use concept, especially due to the "I spot whoever hits me!" thing.

Maybe remove sniping from the lowest-level RD dudes, at least Gangers and possibly also Lads? Or reduce their sniper values so they won't be sniping a lot.

I do get that it's kind of a lot of rebalancing for something that's not such a great deal in the grand scheme of things.

2) I would have to give the same buff to enhanced X-Com agents. Not a game breaker, but +25 HP is perhaps too much at once.
Yeah. :(

3) It would logically require adding the same buff to many other enemies from some later organizations like the MiB, the Syndicate, the UAC... All these have access to biotech at a level equal to or surpassing Red Dawn's, so it would also buff them. Not sure if it's okay, but maybe.
Who says they want to use said biotech in exactly the same way (+HP steroids instead of weapon grafts, mind-machine interfaces, combat drugs, etc)? The Syndicate Supersoldiers and Minotaurs, okay. These are already pretty tough, and another 10-15 HP wouldn't make them all that much tougher. The others are mercs/hired goons for the most part, no need to feed the temps the good juice. :P

MiB guys are actually pretty wimpy HP-wise. I wouldn't mind the more advanced versions getting some steroids.

The UAC Space Marines could get a boost, too. Memetic Doomguy toughness, you know. :)

Sorry if it came off as rude, that wasn't my intention. But if you point out an error after literally years of everything being a-okay, I think I'm justified in being a little sceptical.
Okay, fair enough.

What am I supposed to answer? It's like a geologist shown up one day and started berating me for rocks in the desert being the wrong colour. I am all for realism when possible, but I am not omniscient and this is a game.
Well, the difference is that the rocks are incidental and the game would be little different if all the rocks suddenly disappeared from the game. Or changed colour to iridescent pink across the board, and were renamed to 'ancient silicoids'. :D Not so with the guns.

I get that 'realism' is virtually always trumped by gameplay, but in this case the differences are marginal (research gun names, appearances and (pop) history before you put them in the game).

On a personal level, during 42 years of my life and having lived in several countries across Europe, I've never met these types of people you mentioned and I won't pretend to be particularly concerned about their needs. To me they are an exotic internet phenomena like all the weird crap you see on the net.
So are people who play e-sports, people who like pixel graphics, people who play old-school X-Com, professional geologists... :P

If you don't care about any of them, why are you using RL guns as a basis? You could have just used generic names for most things, kind of like Piratez does for a lot of its weapons. Or even how you have a 'Colt .45' in the game that's a pretty blatant expy of an M1911.

Dude, I had no idea 'gun porn' was a thing. How was I supposed to expect something like this?
Squad-level tactical games are one of two genres that attract gun porn like honey.

Technical reasons. I tried changing this once or twice, and dropped due to being too involved.
What's so involved about that? I made some hostile female farmers with little trouble. Granted, you can't research them, but that's not all that much more work.

I'm not insisting, though. I just wanted some visual variety during the mission.

Since the author is unknown, I'll credit you as the sprite provider, OK?
I don't really care about credits. Do as you wish. I might have recoloured this from some other fist weapon. Possibly from Piratez? It's been several years, at least.

Hmm, I guess I could give them their own motion scanner analogue.
Yay!

It's just a green finishing on their backpack. Not on the face level and more clearly visible from other angles.
The other angles are fine, it's a thin line there. But the back view is pretty much the same size as their visor from the front. I actually had trouble telling which way the guy was facing because of this and the weapon sprite looking very similar on both ends. The only real hint was the legs.

You know, I'm not against this!
I assume you can recolour the Piratez sprite on your own? I did notice that these guys need the 'Muton' drawingroutine, or pistols will look bad.

I kinda thought about them replacing the Coordinators, since those guys share their paperdoll with the maniacs, and look a bit too edgy overall. But I don't think a giant telnyashka-clad dude qualifies as top dog, either.

That reminds me, you never said anything about the red Salamandrons. I guess they didn't pan out?

Yeah, that's a bit more realistic.
I'm sure the red-headed bitch will have something against regular Reapers, too. :'(



Edit... uh, Edit2! Yeah! Definitely Edit2.

Psiclones seem to be excessibely rare these days before getting rid of EXALT, while there are several uses for those.

Also, the way a lot of (mainly melee) weapons scale with stats makes highly leveled agents ridiculously effective. A baseball bat is a weapon of mass destruction far better than a high-caliber rifle now. :o



Edit3: As much as I liked the Hacienda, I hate the Syndicate HQ. A more dirty version of the BL base does not really do it for me. Also, it's full of Supersoldiers, Minotaurs and... dogs. Plain ole dogs. Not a Bloodhound in sight.

It's also nominally an inflitration mission, but you get to bring all your HMGs, rocket launchers, mortars and other 'pocket' devices of doom. ???

BTW, what happened to the original RD base map? Haven't seen it anywhere this time around.



Edit4: Upon reflection, I quite dislike how the Syndicate arc goes out with a whimper instead of a bang. To wit:



Edit6: Are nooses supposed to kill people? The 0.2 health multiplier and the general x4 choke damage multiplier mean it's doing ~80% HP damage, comparable to baseball bats and other dangerous stun weapons.



Edit7: Not sure if it's intended, but Deep One villages/trading posts and Embassies of T'Leth still use the tiny sub when I've unlocked the Trident and raided the Underwater City, but haven't progressed beyond that yet.



Edit: Are these Dagon (skid?!) marks? :o The fumes seem pretty strong...



Edit5: When you absolutely need to hit that target.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Bandaid on July 27, 2022, 12:06:44 pm
Hi, found OpenXcom and this Mod recently and I am having a blast (as well as being blasted with everything and the kitchen sink), thanks for all your work. Just wanted to chime in, hope this the right thread to do it, sorry if not.



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on July 27, 2022, 01:54:11 pm
How on earth are you meant to kill the xenomorph things? I lined up a dozen people with blackops weapons, and emptied everything into one without it flinching. Took a straight mortar to the face, a dozen napalm grenades, a full auto minigun, taser cannon, and a few shots from a heavy sniper rifle! Even with all that I couldn't get a single one down, and there were about three on the mission! I get that these things are meant to be tough and scary as hell, but it seems downright impossible at the moment. (At least with my earth technology.)

Entirely unrelated: Is the MAGMA corporation a reference to something, or is it just something you came up with?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 27, 2022, 02:56:11 pm
How on earth are you meant to kill the xenomorph things?
You mean the Ultra Chryssalids? They're weak to fire. But very beefy, with over 400 HP.

I tested every weapon loaded with incendiary ammo. But just once, and I might have changed some RandomTypes at one point, so the following are only rough estimates. The number is the number of consecutive direct hits before the critter gave up the ghost.

Your results with Napalm Grenades seem strange. I checked, and my damage values are still the same as vanilla. Perhaps not all your grenades actually hit the beastie?

Answering your question, I thus suggest incendiary mortar rounds and flamers.

As an aside, I think the 80% armor reduction on those mortar rounds is way too much. After I changed it to 100%, i.e. no reduction, it still only took me two rounds to kill the big Chryssalid.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on July 29, 2022, 04:27:10 am
I must have been getting awful luck with damage rolls, because those things were NOT going down. I'll keep the fire weapons in mind next time I see them and hope for the best.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 29, 2022, 03:38:22 pm
What's this? A Zombie group hug? :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Goobers on July 30, 2022, 03:39:58 am
Hi Solarius and OXC community, I haven't played XComFiles in what must have been in over a year. I loved the mod and I came back to UFO and just got done with a run on Final Modpack so I'm currently trying XComFiles again on beginner (I know, I know) and I'm finding it a lot harder and frustrating than I remember.
I'm not even one month into this run and I'm getting flooded with mission prompts popping up all over the globe at one hell of a rate. There's simply too many to handle and my score goes into the negative extremely rapidly due to despawns. I can't field enough crews/bases to deal with it without running out of cash, my vans can't reach anything in time, etc.
I'm also running 8mono's expansion.

Am I just being bad at the game or am I supposed to expect to get assblasted and tolerate a few months of negative score? Any advice is welcome.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Mathel on July 30, 2022, 10:25:17 am
Entirely unrelated: Is the MAGMA corporation a reference to something, or is it just something you came up with?
Looking it up, turns out they were a real company up until 2011, when they merged with Plutonic Power Corp to become Alterra Power Corp.

Not sure if Solarius Scorch knew this though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Jimboman on July 30, 2022, 02:48:09 pm

I'm also running 8mono's expansion.


This could be your problem.  As well as adding additional items 8mono's mod adds missions.  Try it without that mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Goobers on July 30, 2022, 05:21:47 pm
This could be your problem.  As well as adding additional items 8mono's mod adds missions.  Try it without that mod.

I've been playing a couple hours without 8mono's mod and nope, still having the same problem. I'd say I obviously just suck at the mod. If nothing else I could use some tips. I can never figure out a research priority. I have 3 vans going and I can never reach Cult Safehouse missions in time before they despawn, leaving me with all kinds of other missions spawning and despawning in the midst of that. I usually start a game in the USA or in the Middle East.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 30, 2022, 05:38:59 pm
I've been playing a couple hours without 8mono's mod and nope, still having the same problem.
A few hours is probably not enough to make a difference, unless you're just skipping missions. Try a few in-game months.

If nothing else I could use some tips. I can never figure out a research priority.
Fomka has an entire Gantt chart (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10581.msg147032.html#msg147032) for the early game.

I have 3 vans going and I can never reach Cult Safehouse missions in time before they despawn, leaving me with all kinds of other missions spawning and despawning in the midst of that.
Some players have just spammed vans and launched them all over the world, ready to pounce on whatever missions pop up nearby. Me, I just upped van speed.

Cars are considerably faster than vans, so you can try sending these to easy missions, like apprehensions or crop circles.

I usually start a game in the USA or in the Middle East.
US is usually a bad idea since only the feds pay you, not individual states. Unless they roll really high starting funds, you're better off covering Europe since we now have an absolutely massive number of countries there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Jimboman on July 30, 2022, 09:12:06 pm
I usually start a game in the USA or in the Middle East.

I agree with Juku, build your first base in somewhere like the Swiss alps.  That way you can cover most of Europe and part of North Africa.  Try rushing promotion two and/or the helicopter/Osprey as it gives you more options.

Can't understand why you don't have time to reach missions.  It's been a while since I played this (but I still check the forums) but from what I remember the mission stays as long as at least one craft (car/van) is targeted on it.  Don't skip missions, even 'bug-hunts', as you get points for at least trying if you land, see around 20 Chupus and think 'f-this' and abort.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 30, 2022, 09:27:13 pm
The targeting trick has been mostly disabled for a while now. There are a couple of missions that allow it, but these are largely special one-off events.

Technically, there are separate penalties for letting the mission despawn and aborting. Never really looked if there's a pattern there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 31, 2022, 01:13:10 pm
Maybe remove sniping from the lowest-level RD dudes, at least Gangers and possibly also Lads? Or reduce their sniper values so they won't be sniping a lot.

OK, I have disabled it on gangers and drastically decreased for lads. I agree that it was a bit too much.

Who says they want to use said biotech in exactly the same way (+HP steroids instead of weapon grafts, mind-machine interfaces, combat drugs, etc)?

Nobody said that, but in most cases they'd want more resilient troops regardless.

The Syndicate Supersoldiers and Minotaurs, okay. These are already pretty tough, and another 10-15 HP wouldn't make them all that much tougher. The others are mercs/hired goons for the most part, no need to feed the temps the good juice. :P

MiB guys are actually pretty wimpy HP-wise. I wouldn't mind the more advanced versions getting some steroids.

The UAC Space Marines could get a boost, too. Memetic Doomguy toughness, you know. :)

I agree, all this can be done, but I'd rather not do any big rebalances if they can be avoided. Frankly I'm torn on this - wouldn't want to make early game even harder, it's the later game which is a problem.

If you don't care about any of them, why are you using RL guns as a basis? You could have just used generic names for most things, kind of like Piratez does for a lot of its weapons. Or even how you have a 'Colt .45' in the game that's a pretty blatant expy of an M1911.

Well it's not like I completely disregard them, it's just very hard to meet their exotic requirements.

What's so involved about that? I made some hostile female farmers with little trouble. Granted, you can't research them, but that's not all that much more work.

I can't remember right now, only that it was a pain due to how MiB/zombie missions are coded. Not saying it's impossible to do, just a little too complex for me to get off my ass. Maybe later.

The other angles are fine, it's a thin line there. But the back view is pretty much the same size as their visor from the front. I actually had trouble telling which way the guy was facing because of this and the weapon sprite looking very similar on both ends. The only real hint was the legs.

You're right, I worked on this a little. Hope it is OK now.

I assume you can recolour the Piratez sprite on your own? I did notice that these guys need the 'Muton' drawingroutine, or pistols will look bad.

I kinda thought about them replacing the Coordinators, since those guys share their paperdoll with the maniacs, and look a bit too edgy overall. But I don't think a giant telnyashka-clad dude qualifies as top dog, either.

After some thinking I decided that another new unit for a starting cult wouldn't be the best idea, since I need to focus on the later game instead. It's just a little too much at once.

That reminds me, you never said anything about the red Salamandrons. I guess they didn't pan out?

Sorry, I need more context here.

Psiclones seem to be excessibely rare these days before getting rid of EXALT, while there are several uses for those.

Not any rarer than before.

Also, the way a lot of (mainly melee) weapons scale with stats makes highly leveled agents ridiculously effective. A baseball bat is a weapon of mass destruction far better than a high-caliber rifle now. :o

As designed. It's the only way to have meaningful melee.

BTW, what happened to the original RD base map? Haven't seen it anywhere this time around.

It definitely exists. Check the deployments if you're interested.

Edit4: Upon reflection, I quite dislike how the Syndicate arc goes out with a whimper instead of a bang. To wit:
(...)

Much of this is "kinda planned", so I won't address these remarks directly, but they've been heard.

Edit6: Are nooses supposed to kill people?

Very much so.

Edit7: Not sure if it's intended, but Deep One villages/trading posts and Embassies of T'Leth still use the tiny sub when I've unlocked the Trident and raided the Underwater City, but haven't progressed beyond that yet.

Not as much intended as inevitable; implementation of a certain request in OXCE would let us be more robust, so we'll see.

Hi, found OpenXcom and this Mod recently and I am having a blast (as well as being blasted with everything and the kitchen sink), thanks for all your work. Just wanted to chime in, hope this the right thread to do it, sorry if not.

Thanks a lot! :)

Is the MAGMA corporation a reference to something, or is it just something you came up with?

It's a reference to the Alien Shooter series, especially Alien Shooter 2 (the good version, like AS 2 Gold, before they ruined it by removing skills).

Looking it up, turns out they were a real company up until 2011, when they merged with Plutonic Power Corp to become Alterra Power Corp.

Not sure if Solarius Scorch knew this though.

I didn't!

Hi Solarius and OXC community, I haven't played XComFiles in what must have been in over a year. I loved the mod and I came back to UFO and just got done with a run on Final Modpack so I'm currently trying XComFiles again on beginner (I know, I know) and I'm finding it a lot harder and frustrating than I remember.

I don't think the mod actually got straight up harder, but it certainly got more complex, so things can go sideways in new unexpected ways.
Also thank you, and good luck!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on July 31, 2022, 02:03:19 pm
I agree, all this can be done, but I'd rather not do any big rebalances if they can be avoided. Frankly I'm torn on this - wouldn't want to make early game even harder, it's the later game which is a problem.
...
It's just a little too much at once.
Fair enough.

The mercs do look better. Could be a little darker just below the 'green line', but that's not so important.

Sorry, I need more context here.
This (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg79808.html#msg79808). The green ones didn't exist yet at that point. I do like them, and they go well together with Reptoids, but a fiery death-dealer accompanying Snakemen looks better red. Well, orange. :)

Not any rarer than before.
Depend on what you consider 'before'. I recall Psiclones and Alien Communicators being much more plentiful, and seeing deployment data deleting those as well.

It's the only way to have meaningful melee.
No, there are other -and IMO better - ways. Weapon unlocks with more armour piercing and/or different damage types. Having some generally troublesome enemies weak to melee (Lobstermen pioneered this :P ). Melee-enhancing equipment (e.g. Synthsuit). HP drain a la Shadowbats. I'm sure there are even more creative solutions instead of just giving out bigger numbers.

It definitely exists. Check the deployments if you're interested.
Well, I did and SIBERIA seems to be missing altogether. ???

...they've been heard.
:)

Not as much intended as inevitable; implementation of a certain request in OXCE would let us be more robust, so we'll see.
Didn't that thread get deleted?



Edit: One thing I've gradually come to dislike is how electric shocks are the answer to stunning everything. Cow? Prod it. Plain ole human? Prod it, too. Little green grey men from Mars? Prod them. Robotank that's supposedly at least somewhat isolated/hardened? Prod it, of course. Bunch of microscopic insects? Prod them, seven ten thousand at one blow. A Deep One Gillman that's got a built-in electric shock weapon? Weak to electric prods. A floating ball of spikiness that shoots lightning out of its ass? Of course it's weak to getting tasered!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2022, 01:26:14 pm
This (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg79808.html#msg79808). The green ones didn't exist yet at that point. I do like them, and they go well together with Reptoids, but a fiery death-dealer accompanying Snakemen looks better red. Well, orange. :)

Ah, the mini-T-Rex!
It's pretty cool, but I'd rather stick with the ore "compact" build, since it's a 2x2 unit.

Depend on what you consider 'before'. I recall Psiclones and Alien Communicators being much more plentiful, and seeing deployment data deleting those as well.

I don't recall any changes to their availability. Well, maybe through UFO density - this is changed periodically. Is this what you think is the case?

No, there are other -and IMO better - ways. Weapon unlocks with more armour piercing and/or different damage types. Having some generally troublesome enemies weak to melee (Lobstermen pioneered this :P ). Melee-enhancing equipment (e.g. Synthsuit). HP drain a la Shadowbats. I'm sure there are even more creative solutions instead of just giving out bigger numbers.

All that is true, but we're talking general level now.
Frankly, I like how it works. It's just the right balance for me.

Well, I did and SIBERIA seems to be missing altogether. ???

SIBERIA was removed years ago, for obvious reasons. Why dig up this long dead carcass now?

Didn't that thread get deleted?

It did, but the request is still valid.

Edit: One thing I've gradually come to dislike is how electric shocks are the answer to stunning everything. Cow? Prod it. Plain ole human? Prod it, too. Little green grey men from Mars? Prod them. Robotank that's supposedly at least somewhat isolated/hardened? Prod it, of course. Bunch of microscopic insects? Prod them, seven ten thousand at one blow. A Deep One Gillman that's got a built-in electric shock weapon? Weak to electric prods. A floating ball of spikiness that shoots lightning out of its ass? Of course it's weak to getting tasered!

Perhaps a review is in order... Then again, electric damage is usually a PITA to deliver, so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 05, 2022, 02:04:26 pm
I don't recall any changes to their availability. Well, maybe through UFO density - this is changed periodically. Is this what you think is the case?
No, equipment lists in AlienDeployments. A lot of Alien Communicators were deleted sometime after 1.9. Psiclones seem to be the same, but I never felt they were scarce before they became consumables for Gun Kata, so that's probably that. But I have 74 of them after nearly three years of farming EXALT, and that's roughly the same as the number of missions I've done against them.

I'm not saying any of this needs to change. But Psiclones are a moderatelt rare resource now (before EXALT gets the axe), what with several uses (Skulljacks, Gun Kata, direct morale damage).

Frankly, I like how it works. It's just the right balance for me.
Well, it's the same solution as giving bosses more and more HP in various games. A lot of people don't like that, myself included. If it works for you and others, fine.

SIBERIA was removed years ago, for obvious reasons. Why dig up this long dead carcass now?
What did you mean by 'original RD base map' 'exists', then? Was there another one between SIBERIA and NOOBERIA that I missed?

Perhaps a review is in order... Then again, electric damage is usually a PITA to deliver, so.
My point was that you're never required to change tactics. Electricity always works if you can deliver it. If you use clubs or fists, there are some enemies who don't care. If you use darts, there are enemies who don't care. Being forced to adapt is a good thing in my book.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2022, 02:41:55 pm
No, equipment lists in AlienDeployments. A lot of Alien Communicators were deleted sometime after 1.9. Psiclones seem to be the same, but I never felt they were scarce before they became consumables for Gun Kata, so that's probably that. But I have 74 of them after nearly three years of farming EXALT, and that's roughly the same as the number of missions I've done against them.

I never removed any Psiclones the way I dealt with alien communicators, why are you trying to wear me down like this? Is this for something my ancestors did? :P

What did you mean by 'original RD base map' 'exists', then? Was there another one between SIBERIA and NOOBERIA that I missed?

I meant the STORMMOUNTAIN terrain. The previous one.

My point was that you're never required to change tactics. Electricity always works if you can deliver it. If you use clubs or fists, there are some enemies who don't care. If you use darts, there are enemies who don't care. Being forced to adapt is a good thing in my book.

Well, the damage type is the same, but the tactics not necessarily. I mean, I get your point, I just don't think it's that bad. Electricity indeed works on almost everything, but it is counterbalanced by limited means to apply it - you have the taser, the club, the various better versions of the club, some very unwieldy Cyberweb weapons...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 05, 2022, 03:45:09 pm
I never removed any Psiclones the way I dealt with alien communicators...
No, but you added Gun Kata and Skulljacks. I'm saying some stuff got removed (and I thought some Psiclones got removed, too, but I clearly misremembered, so my bad), some other stuff got added and now Psiclones feel more rare than before (because there are still just as many of them, but demand has gone way up). It kinda feels weird to me that an organisation hopped up on these has so few to go around (unlike Psyke that was just swimming in the stuff). OTOH, maybe they're careful with their joytrodes and hide them away before going out. But you'd think at least their HQ would have a couple dozen to go around. But nope, a few is all you get, usually.

It's not really a problem for me, but it's a change and one that crept up on players indirectly. Also a mystery where they keep all these Psiclones their whole membership is addicted to. Make of that what you will.

I meant the STORMMOUNTAIN terrain.
Oh. I don't actually recall playing a version with that one. But I must have, since I did play 2.1 for a while. Going senile, I guess. :-\

Well, the damage type is the same, but the tactics not necessarily. I mean, I get your point, I just don't think it's that bad. Electricity indeed works on almost everything, but it is counterbalanced by limited means to apply it - you have the taser, the club, the various better versions of the club, some very unwieldy Cyberweb weapons...
Fair. But I'd still like at least a couple of situations where I go and try my standard approach and it just doesn't work so I need to work out something else. Swarmids, perhaps. No idea how someone is going to club a bunch of Swarmids. ???

Is this for something my ancestors did?
Ask your parents. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Kozinsky on August 06, 2022, 08:26:29 am
I suggest adding a random number of enemy units in all missions. This is especially important for the initial missions, where their number is very small and always fixed. For example, for the Cult Apprehension mission:
alienDeployments:
...
  - type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_BLACK_LOTUS
...
    data:
      - alienRank: 5
        lowQty: 1 #the same value
        highQty: 4 #the same value
        dQty: 1 #change from 0
        extraQty: 1 #added tag
...
The idea is that the player knows for sure that there are always two enemies on this mission (for Veteran difficulty) and, having discovered them, he stops being cautious. Whereas the possibility of a third enemy would force the player to be more cautious and continue to perform proper tactical maneuvers.

If this idea seems bad to you, is there any way I can make this idea into a separate submod without having to completely copy all the data from the "alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul" file? Perhaps I need to use "refNode" or "!add" tags somehow?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Vakrug on August 06, 2022, 11:15:50 am
The idea is that the player knows for sure that there are always two enemies on this mission (for Veteran difficulty) and, having discovered them, he stops being cautious.
... and gets surprised when other cultists with AK-47 appears behind a corner, because this particular mission decides to be "highQty" type. I think anti-stop-being-cautious measures are already implemented.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 06, 2022, 02:33:47 pm
...make this idea into a separate submod without having to completely copy all the data from the "alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul" file?
I think (but I am not an authority on YAML) that the nearest thing that can actually be referenced is 'data: ' A submod should inherit other values (briefing, music, map size, etc), so that's all you need to change. But once you start touching 'data: ', you need to include all entries, since it's a list without any identifiers. Itemsets can be referenced, but for full convenience I suspect you'd need Solarius to anchor each end every itemset. Otherwise, have fun copying all of these over. :(

...because this particular mission decides to be "highQty" type.
The mission doesn't get to choose. highQty is the minimum number on Superhuman, and dQty is the additional random range.


It usually doesn't matter all that much, given how high enemy counts are in XCF. But some of the starter missions could indeed be more random. I've actualy changed Apprehension and Crop Circle missions in such a way for myself (plus female farmers :) ). And it's a little wierd to encounter exactly 32 (or whatever the value is for that difficulty) beetles, spiders, etc. Exactly who is gathering them in such exact quantities just before X-Com arrives? :P

Also note that quite a few missions already have dQty set to a non-zero value.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 08, 2022, 11:42:13 am
No, but you added Gun Kata and Skulljacks. I'm saying some stuff got removed (and I thought some Psiclones got removed, too, but I clearly misremembered, so my bad), some other stuff got added and now Psiclones feel more rare than before (because there are still just as many of them, but demand has gone way up). It kinda feels weird to me that an organisation hopped up on these has so few to go around (unlike Psyke that was just swimming in the stuff). OTOH, maybe they're careful with their joytrodes and hide them away before going out. But you'd think at least their HQ would have a couple dozen to go around. But nope, a few is all you get, usually.

It's not really a problem for me, but it's a change and one that crept up on players indirectly. Also a mystery where they keep all these Psiclones their whole membership is addicted to. Make of that what you will.

OK, many thanks; now I get your point. I guess adding a few more to their big buildings won't hurt. Did that.

Fair. But I'd still like at least a couple of situations where I go and try my standard approach and it just doesn't work so I need to work out something else. Swarmids, perhaps. No idea how someone is going to club a bunch of Swarmids. ???

Fixed that, hopefully.

As for randomization of enemy units - well, I kinda like the semi-predictability we have now. rebalancing this would be really tricky anyway.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: MoonKid on August 11, 2022, 09:05:00 pm
In earlier version it was quit easy to build a AI unit. After an update it was only possible to re-animate a killed AI unit.
Now in the current last release version I only can "build" a AI unit when I have an alenium shart . I don't know what this is and how to get it.

I can I get a new AI unit?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 11, 2022, 09:55:52 pm
...an alenium shart . I don't know what this is and how to get it.
It's a dormant alien AI crystal or something like that.
You get your first three or so from the Kiryu-Kai research. Alien bases (including anything else using some of their map blocks, e.g. Hybrid Embassies) can have shards as loot, and so can Osiron Haciendas, Osiron crates and Jars of Grey Goo (which come from Haciendas in the first place). The bases are probably the most reliable source.

I can I get a new AI unit?
What do you mean? You want a return to the 'muggle' and 'wizard' AI dichotomy? :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: MoonKid on August 11, 2022, 10:10:08 pm
In that case I should stop to use to much elirium explosivs. I think that is the problem I destroy everything. I use more elirium explosivs then usual bullets or plasma beams. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Slow on August 22, 2022, 09:41:20 am
Pls, can you implement a tilt of Earth on geoscape? So there could be polar days in summer and nights in winter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Kozinsky on August 22, 2022, 12:46:43 pm
Pls, can you implement a tilt of Earth on geoscape? So there could be polar days in summer and nights in winter.
This setting has been implemented in the game for a long time and is enabled by default for X-Com Files. Check the status of "Realistic globe lighting" in the "advanced" section.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Slow on August 22, 2022, 02:09:42 pm
Ahhh... so it is on! I never noticed it before. Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: x-facility on August 26, 2022, 03:52:24 pm
What is the purpose of CTRL + click on a tile to make character run and go further? I don't like this feature. It does give advantage so you have to hold CTRL every time you move a character, witch gets tiring. How to disable?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Meridian on August 26, 2022, 04:56:48 pm
How to disable?

Option 1) Don't hold CTRL

Option 2) Turn off "Alternate movement methods" option under Options > Advanced
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 26, 2022, 05:33:15 pm
The 'advantage' is a trade-off. You 1) lose quite a bit more energy due to running and have to either stand still for a bit (shooting is still OK) or use energy-restoring items, and 2) will not stop upon spotting a new enemy, potentially getting reaction fired in the process (or just end up in an unfavourable position). It lets you focus your TU for specific actions (which is quite an advantage), but it's not really 'free TU' and constantly running everywhere ends up with soldiers scattered about and unable to reposition properly.

Whether you like it or not is up to you, of course. I find it enhances the tactical part of the game.

 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Psyentific on August 26, 2022, 05:48:23 pm
it's most useful as an emergency tool, like sprinting to get into a good position to deal with an important enemy. or to shave a couple TUs off a movement to squeeze in another snap shot or something. particularly with heavy melee-type units, if you sprint everywhere you'll quickly find yourself either unable to complete a move or unable to attack due to no energy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: x-facility on August 26, 2022, 06:23:35 pm
Option 2) Turn off "Alternate movement methods" option under Options > Advanced
Thank you. That's what I wanted
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Slow on August 27, 2022, 12:38:04 pm
There's something with difficulty in this game, I reached a point when I lose every fight, Red Dawn or Cult of Apolcips soldiers never miss, have more advanced weapons than me, have grenades. While my agents have only kevlar vests, 44 magnum pistols and hunting rifles. And miss like 2/3 of shots.

And i play on lowest difficulty. Is this a bug or it supposed to be so?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 27, 2022, 01:59:54 pm
Is this a bug or it supposed to be so?
Difficulty does not change enemy loadouts. It does raise enemy stats, but nor a whole lot. Something like +5% per difficulty level, and not all stats.

If cultists never miss, then you're hugging them. :P They miss me plenty.

Grenades and weaponry better than what you start with or can acquire easily are intentional. As are crappy agents who need to go lift some iron first.

Red Dawn and CoA are the toughest cults to fight, though. Although I'm not sure why you've unlocked CoA while still sporting kevlar vests and Magnums. Seems like an own goal, these guys are quite heavily armed when compared to the four starter cults, and can swarm you like no tomorrow.

If you really need to get your kid gloves difficulty back, go find vars_XCOMFILES.rul and change
Code: [Select]
aimAndArmorMultipliers: [1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0]
back to
Code: [Select]
aimAndArmorMultipliers: [0.5, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0]
Or whatever other value you fancy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Slow on August 27, 2022, 03:56:03 pm
Cult of Apocalypse is in mission where I should go wearing only regular clothes and armed with little pistols. And there's like twenty of them there, and they are armed with some weapons I never seen before. How am I supposed to win them, ffs? Even if use heliocoper, they still outgun me.

I assume this is very important mission, vital for driving of script of the game, so I must win. I just can't.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 27, 2022, 05:45:36 pm
Is it the Caveman disguise mission? That is indeed a difficult one. But 1) it's not CoA, it's UAC and 2) you still need to have unlocked CoA to access it, and doing so is your choice.

I don't recall that mission giving anything unique, though. Bunch of weapon crates and UAC soldiers, nothing you can't get from other missions.

Or do you mean one of the tavern missions or Trading with Wizkids? Neither is really necessary to progress, just places where you can start unlocking CoA. If you have trouble with those, don't start that arc yet. It only gets worse from there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Slow on August 27, 2022, 06:04:13 pm
>do you mean one of the tavern missions

Yes, it was a "Meeting with informer" mission, which turned out to be a trap. Bunch of Cult of Apokalips cowboys.

I will skip it then, thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Lone Wolf on August 29, 2022, 06:29:13 am
Hey, does anyone know if there is a bug with the research prerequires?  I'm in November 1999 and...I have run out of research.  I have gotten as far as alien origins, and I have researched laser beams (laser weapons construction won't come up).  I am scratching my head over this since I know I still have tons of other things to research (Martian solution, UFO construction, etc.) but nothing comes up?  Is there a facility that you need to research these things?  The Wiki isn't too clear?

Any help appreciated? 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 29, 2022, 12:20:16 pm
Hey, does anyone know if there is a bug with the research prerequires?
Doubt that. You likely either lack the better labs or haven't been capturing enough aliens to get the relevant topics from probing their little brains. This mod is big on captures.

Is there a facility that you need to research these things?
Improved Laboratory for laser weapons and a lot of other things. Advanced Laboratory for even more... advanced stuff.

Martian Solution shouldn't require those, but it does need Alien Narrative, which in turn requires two topics from the alien interrogation roulette, one of which is restricted to higher-ranking aliens (or getting lucky with David's data files).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Lone Wolf on August 30, 2022, 02:39:53 am
Thanks Juku121.  I thought I had captured enough aliens since I had at least one of each (maybe not from each species, but I've got Navigators, Soldiers, Medics, Engineers, Leaders from a couple of the different races.)  I even captured one commander (a sectoid) by ganging up on him with five guys with stun batons in an Alien Base Raid.  However, I haven't seen any of the really elite units yet like Knights, Guards or Keepers.  I guess I just have to keep beating up aliens with stun batons until somebody talks... :D

I also have no idea what I need to do to unlock improved laboratory...I thought I got all the topics I needed to do it, but I've researched so many things at this point that I don't know.  RNG has also messed with me pretty hard on this campaign since some enemies never appeared that I needed to capture.  Didn't even see a zombie infector until March of 99' and I haven't even seen a shambler once the entire campaign and since I already did final solution I doubt I'll ever unlock hidden caves...

By the way...does the game automatically end if you attack Cydonia?  Even if you haven't finished all of the other faction quests?  I've wiped every cult except apocalypse, and I've destroyed the syndicate, cyberweb, and the monsters too.  I'm decently far along on the Hybrids (I captured a specialist so now I'm waiting for the control mission to fire),  and UAC, but I've barely dipped my toe in everything else.  I would like to experience everything the mod has to offer so it would suck if I finish the campaign before I wipe all the other factions out. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Vakrug on August 30, 2022, 10:27:48 am
Improved Laboratory for laser weapons and a lot of other things. Advanced Laboratory for even more... advanced stuff.
And none of these can research stuff that standard laboratory can! Never dismantle your standard laboratory just because you have not enough space in your main base.

By the way...does the game automatically end if you attack Cydonia?
Yes. And if you play like me it will happen much earlier that many other "endings".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 30, 2022, 10:34:59 am
I guess I just have to keep beating up aliens with stun batons until somebody talks...
Engineers/leaders need regular beatings :D because there's a laundry list of important technical info you can get from them. Some is blocked behind other requirements as well.

I also have no idea what I need to do to unlock improved laboratory...
Psst (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7101.msg111953.html#msg111953).

RNG has also messed with me pretty hard...
Story of every XCF player ever. :P

...I haven't even seen a shambler once the entire campaign and since I already did final solution I doubt I'll ever unlock hidden caves...
I think Dr. Alpha is supposed to be your failsafe for getting at least one of each cryptid species.

By the way...does the game automatically end if you attack Cydonia?
Yep. Used to require finishing the two other major alien arcs too, but that seems to have changed. I was quite unhappy to see the Temple of Atlantis getting removed.

I'm decently far along on the Hybrids (I captured a specialist so now I'm waiting for the control mission to fire),  and UAC, but I've barely dipped my toe in everything else.  I would like to experience everything the mod has to offer so it would suck if I finish the campaign before I wipe all the other factions out.
I think Hybrids never truly go away. You can sabotage them and get to recruit dissenters, but there's always more alien-impregnated women, or cloning tanks, or wherever these things come from.

You're not forced to push the Cydonia button, either. Play as long as you wish.


And none of these can research stuff that standard laboratory can! Never dismantle your standard laboratory just because you have not enough space in your main base.
Yah. Things be weird in X-Com labs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Lone Wolf on August 31, 2022, 02:42:09 am
Quote
And none of these can research stuff that standard laboratory can! Never dismantle your standard laboratory just because you have not enough space in your main base.

I didn't know that, good to know  ;).

Quote
I think Dr. Alpha is supposed to be your failsafe for getting at least one of each cryptid species.

Damn, I screwed that up.  I did that mission a while ago, but from what I remember I tossed a metric crapton of dynamite down the top hole and then shot everything that wasn't human.  Then I beat up Dr. Alpha with a stun baton...

Quote
I also have no idea what I need to do to unlock improved laboratory...   
Quote
Psst.

Really useful!  Thanks Juku!




I figured the game ended at Cydonia, but I just wanted to be sure.  Otherwise, I would have wiped the aliens out so I don't have to do anymore pesky UFO crash site missions.  I am big on actually wiping out factions so it does kind of irk me that I can't wipe Hybrids, Osirion, or MIB but it is what it is. 

Since I screwed up the hidden caves thing, is there any chance that anyone here knows how to remove the prerequires for the research project in the game files?  I am not above making a local modification to get this to work, and I would have already done it except the mod files are complicated enough that I have no idea what I am doing  ;).   
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Juku121 on August 31, 2022, 03:13:41 am
Since I screwed up the hidden caves thing, is there any chance that anyone here knows how to remove the prerequires for the research project in the game files?
I think it'd be easier, less troublesome and less cheaty to just give yourself a live Shambler by editing your save.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Lone Wolf on September 01, 2022, 06:10:12 am
Quote
I think it'd be easier, less troublesome and less cheaty to just give yourself a live Shambler by editing your save.

That's a really good idea, and I'm willing to put in the research time, but I'm still unsure of how to do this.  I've looked in my save files but it goes on for quite a while.  Is there a trick to finding the base stores?  When I try to look for base inventories I keep ending up with the inventory of my agents or the transport craft?  I've tried adding stuff to these, but nothing ever appears either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.5: Silent Run
Post by: Lone Wolf on September 01, 2022, 06:18:49 am
Quote
Is there a trick to finding the base stores?

Nevermind I figured it out.  I can get to the base inventory directly before the name of the next base.  I've already tried it and it works!  I now have one live shambler!  Thanks Juku!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zee_ra on September 10, 2022, 07:25:35 am
 
...
- Fixed Golden Academy Towers not spawning in some scenarios.
...


Thank you for posting this update.

Could you please tell more about the mechanics and the underlying design of the Golden Academy Towers spawn.  When I looked at the spawn config, it appears that they only require the corrupt politician flag set to spawn.  However, I do have the flag set, and the towers had not yet spawned.  What am I missing?  Is there a set-off date?

Could you please tell more about the exact semantics of the following definition:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_CORRUPT_POLITICIAN_BLACK_LOTUS
    eventWeights:
      0:
        STR_CORRUPT_POLITICIAN_BLACK_LOTUS: 100
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 3
    researchTriggers:
       STR_BLACK_LOTUS_NETWORK: true
       STR_DESTROY_BLACK_LOTUS: false

The definition would trigger if I have researched the Black Lotus Network, but have not yet terminated their operations.  What is the meaning of the reference to currupt politian?  I have
Code: [Select]
STR_CORRUPT_POLITICIAN_BLACK_LOTUS: 1already set in my save file, under the generatedEvents.  Is this sufficient to trigger the towers spawn?

In the playthrough in question, I have already investigated the Black Lotus HQ, and am having missions to storm it every month.  Could I still get the Black Lotus White Tower (of the Golden Academy) spawning, particularly without the Osirion involvement?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Juku121 on September 10, 2022, 01:06:29 pm
When I looked at the spawn config, it appears that they only require the corrupt politician flag set to spawn. 
How did you come by that conclusion? Corrupt politicians are just pop-up events, they don't have any particular relation to the Golden Towers spawning or not spawning. Well, ignoring the fact that killing BL disables both.

Is there a set-off date?
January 1, 1999.

Is this sufficient to trigger the towers spawn?
No. Towers spawn randomly (3% chance per month).

Could I still get the Black Lotus White Tower (of the Golden Academy) spawning, particularly without the Osirion involvement?
I don't think you can avoid Osiron without either savescumming or favourable RNG. You can't get either before the invasion starts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zee_ra on September 10, 2022, 03:29:08 pm
I don't think you can avoid Osiron without either savescumming or favourable RNG. You can't get either before the invasion starts.

I saw two messages and two strings for the spawn of the Towers.  One is for whence they're sponsored by the Black Lotus.  The other is for whence they're sponsored by Osirion, presumably after the elimination of the Black Lotus.  I wondered, if it was possible to have them sponsored by the original BL, rather than the Osirion.  As for Osirion itself, is presence is fine; it also brings some tech perks within, as far as I recall.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zee_ra on September 10, 2022, 03:37:20 pm
How did you come by that conclusion? Corrupt politicians are just pop-up events, they don't have any particular relation to the Golden Towers spawning or not spawning. Well, ignoring the fact that killing BL disables both.
....
No. Towers spawn randomly (3% chance per month).

I pasted the wrong snippet in my previous post.  The correct ones are as follows.

For Black Lotus sponsorship:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_BLACK_LOTUS_GOLDEN_ACADEMY_ESTABLISHED
    oneTimeRandomEvents:
      STR_BLACK_LOTUS_GOLDEN_ACADEMY_ESTABLISHED: 100
    firstMonth: 25
    researchTriggers:
       STR_DESTROY_BLACK_LOTUS: false

For Osiron sponsorship:
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_OSIRON_GOLDEN_ACADEMY_ESTABLISHED
    oneTimeRandomEvents:
      STR_OSIRON_GOLDEN_ACADEMY_ESTABLISHED: 100
    firstMonth: 25
    executionOdds: 5
    researchTriggers:
       STR_OSIRON_CONTACTS_WITCHES: true

Could you possibly help me with understanding how this code works?

I guess, the 3 percent you've mentioned are coming from here:
Code: [Select]
  - type: goldenAcademyTowerAssault3
    firstMonth: 25
    executionOdds: 3
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_ACADEMY_TOWER_ASSAULT: 100
    regionWeights: *BlackLotusCityRegions
    useTable: false
    researchTriggers:
      STR_DESTROY_BLACK_LOTUS: false
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500

  - type: goldenAcademyTowerAssault4
    firstMonth: 25
    executionOdds: 3
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_ACADEMY_TOWER_ASSAULT: 100
    regionWeights: *BlackLotusCityRegions
    useTable: false
    researchTriggers:
      STR_DESTROY_BLACK_LOTUS: false
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500

  - type: osironGoldenAcademyTowerAssault1
    firstMonth: 25
    executionOdds: 3
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_OSIRON_ACADEMY_TOWER_ASSAULT: 100
    regionWeights: *BlackLotusCityRegions
    useTable: false
    researchTriggers:
      STR_OSIRON_CONTACTS_WITCHES: true
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500

  - type: osironGoldenAcademyTowerAssault2
    firstMonth: 25
    executionOdds: 3
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_OSIRON_ACADEMY_TOWER_ASSAULT: 100
    regionWeights: *BlackLotusCityRegions
    useTable: false
    researchTriggers:
      STR_OSIRON_CONTACTS_WITCHES: true
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500


January 1, 1999.

Is this really the date for the Golden Academy possibly becoming active?  I assumed, this has been the date for the UFOs becoming active.

The questions that I am trying to answer as a player are:

I would like to get access to the star weaponry ASAP in my play-through.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: Juku121 on September 10, 2022, 04:54:33 pm
I saw two messages and two strings for the spawn of the Towers.  One is for whence they're sponsored by the Black Lotus.  The other is for whence they're sponsored by Osirion, presumably after the elimination of the Black Lotus. I wondered, if it was possible to have them sponsored by the original BL, rather than the Osirion.
The Osiron version seems to come online regardless of what happens to BL, it's just random. As far as I can see, both towers can coexist.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_OSIRON_GOLDEN_ACADEMY_ESTABLISHED
    oneTimeRandomEvents:
      STR_OSIRON_GOLDEN_ACADEMY_ESTABLISHED: 100
    firstMonth: 25
    executionOdds: 5
    researchTriggers:
       STR_OSIRON_CONTACTS_WITCHES: true
Could you possibly help me with understanding how this code works?
The last line should be 'STR_OSIRON_CONTACTS_WITCHES: false'. If it isn't, that's a problem right there.

Otherwise, what you're pasting here are the flavour events that either tell you about the BL spawning alongside the alien invasion, or a 5% per month chance of establishing the Osiron version. Both happen in month 25, i.e. January 1999. Both trigger eponymous events (what you have here are event scripts), one always and the other 5% of the time. BL won't trigger if they're dead, and Osiron won't trigger if it's already triggered once.

I guess, the 3 percent you've mentioned are coming from here:
Yeah. It's actually more like four separate 3%, so ~12% chance to get at least one. Plus two more Osiron spawns if they're unlocked.

Is this really the date for the Golden Academy possibly becoming active?  I assumed, this has been the date for the UFOs becoming active.
One date can have several things happen at once. :)

I suppose it's part of the punishment for not killing BL off earlier.

Could I as a player hasten the appearance of the Golden Academies?
Not really. The Osiron version could be savescummed into existence earlier, but that's about it.

Are there actions that could lead to the prevention of the spawn of the Golden Academies?
Kill off BL.

Would Golden Academies spawn if I eliminate the Black Lotus, after tampering with their Psi Generator (through a research item)?
Looks like the Osiron version will be there no matter what, contacting some sort of remaining Witch cabal or something. You only avoid them via RNG.

Could the Golden Academies be spawned before the 1999-01-01?
Sure, if you mod the mod.

Am I slowing down the process of the Golden Academies spawn by successfully completing every mission against the Black Lotus, including the monthly base assaults?
Don't think so. The only slowdowns I'm aware of come from shooting down UFOs (and fake UFOs for the cults) flying a mission. Since Golden Academies spawn via script and not mission, well...

I would like to get access to the star weaponry ASAP in my play-through.
As far as I know, these are Golden-Academy-exclusive. In theory, Star weapons can also be found on GA retaliation missions, but I think you probably have better luck getting a GA assault first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: zee_ra on September 11, 2022, 11:02:58 pm
The Osiron version seems to come online regardless of what happens to BL, it's just random. As far as I can see, both towers can coexist.
The last line should be 'STR_OSIRON_CONTACTS_WITCHES: false'. If it isn't, that's a problem right there.

Otherwise, what you're pasting here are the flavour events that either tell you about the BL spawning alongside the alien invasion, or a 5% per month chance of establishing the Osiron version. Both happen in month 25, i.e. January 1999. Both trigger eponymous events (what you have here are event scripts), one always and the other 5% of the time. BL won't trigger if they're dead, and Osiron won't trigger if it's already triggered once.
Yeah. It's actually more like four separate 3%, so ~12% chance to get at least one. Plus two more Osiron spawns if they're unlocked.
One date can have several things happen at once. :)

I suppose it's part of the punishment for not killing BL off earlier.
Not really. The Osiron version could be savescummed into existence earlier, but that's about it.
Kill off BL.
Looks like the Osiron version will be there no matter what, contacting some sort of remaining Witch cabal or something. You only avoid them via RNG.
Sure, if you mod the mod.
Don't think so. The only slowdowns I'm aware of come from shooting down UFOs (and fake UFOs for the cults) flying a mission. Since Golden Academies spawn via script and not mission, well...
As far as I know, these are Golden-Academy-exclusive. In theory, Star weapons can also be found on GA retaliation missions, but I think you probably have better luck getting a GA assault first.

Thank you for these clarifications; they have been helpful to me.


I suppose it's part of the punishment for not killing BL off earlier.
Sure, if you mod the mod.
As far as I know, these are Golden-Academy-exclusive. In theory, Star weapons can also be found on GA retaliation missions, but I think you probably have better luck getting a GA assault first.

Quite interesting.  I have changed the damage curve for the star weapons, by fitting a 3rd degree polynomial, to make them much more interesting.  Now, raiding the academies regularly would be a nice source of this ordnance.  Since in general it suffices to get Promotion III by raiding, but not destroying the BL base (which is among the easier raids, IMHO ; well, I guess the only difficult one is for the Red Dawn), by the time the GA Towers spawn, the team should have very good ordnance at its disposal, plus Osprey most likely, which makes the walkthrough much more of a breeze, with the right tactics.  The practical constraint thereby is that more soldiers need to be armed with rockets, better shrapnel ones, if at all possible.

The neatest part would be raiding the BL HQ repeatedly, with the star weaponry. 😈😈😈

No, no.  Those towers aren't a punishment.  They're an endless source of unique loot.  An early plasma bacchanalia. 😎😎😎

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 20, 2022, 05:11:22 pm
Version 2.6 has been released.

- New HWP armors: Outrunner/Shotgun, Outrunner/Laser (graphics by Brain_322).
- New weapons: Ghost Neuralizer, Thanatonautian Manus, Katapeltes Spiritus, Klein Bottle Grenade (all mostly by CosmicAfro).
- New units: Human Ghost, Poltergeist (both mostly by CosmicAfro).
- New missions: Haunted Farm, Hounted House (both mostly by CosmicAfro).
- New craft weapon: Heavy Pike.
- 16 new faces (graphics mostly by Brain_322).
- 5 new Jungle maps and some terrain additions (by Dioxine).
- New Commercial map (by Dioxine).
- 3 intercepted cult message events (by Helrica).
- Added articles on fire and smoke damage.
- Expanded cult termination articles.
- Statistical bullet saving on some craft weapons.
- Sonic Pulser can be manufactured.
- Some items can be dismantled for Zrbite (by Juku).
- Added Psiclones as bounty to some EXALT missions.
- Making Tritanium requires researching Tritanium Matrix.
- Meridian Hunter gives an Alien Data Slate.
- Kitsune is more expensive to research and gives more points.
- Can't buy napalm grenades without Promotion III.
- Fancier melee attack names.
- New handob for the Flame Glove (provided by Juku), Double-Barreled Shotgun and small blades.
- Fabulous hair on the MiB Commander (by Brain_322).
- Improved some SCANGs (based on Kato's additions).
- Added an Aquatoid Soldier to the T'leth Embassy mission.
- All monks give basic info on Apocalypse gangs.
- Red Dawn Gangers can't snipe, and Lads are less likely to do so.
- Giant Rats and Shadowbats always hit bottom armor.
- Shadowbats have better camo.
- Ghosts can be processed into ectoplasm.
- Swarmids are really hard to hit.
- Most turrets are susceptible to CQC.
- Pioneers give Red Dawn Network too.
- Fixed Pioneers' Health.
- Fixed cult infiltrations spawning.
- Fixed an issue with some Port maps.
- Fixed Ghost Blade not displaying.
- Fixed some flag issues.
- Fixed a crash on Olympians in Personal Armor trying to fly.
- Fixed the coat and the bulletproof coat sprites.
- Fixed legs display on some Olympian sprites.
- Fixed Lithuanian characters.
- Name fixes (by Kato).
- Minor fixes (thanks to Emil J. Schroeder).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: mikmac on September 21, 2022, 12:58:10 pm
Well this is awesome! Does it break savegames?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 21, 2022, 01:38:42 pm
Well this is awesome! Does it break savegames?

Thank you! And no, it shouldn't break anything.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 23, 2022, 09:35:39 am
Thanks for the update!
It is very interesting to follow the development of mod. Probably, this can also be considered a mod game  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: termidor on September 24, 2022, 02:54:12 am
Congrats on the new release, very good to see the mod alive and well 👍
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 25, 2022, 07:33:25 pm
Thanks, guys! I'm already working on the next release, which will finally see the introduction of Anti-E115 weapons (similar to Chryssalid Gas from Piratez).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 26, 2022, 09:19:54 am
Thank you for the good news! And also, if I'm not mistaken, someone promised to pay more attention to the late stage of the game... ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 26, 2022, 11:34:52 am
Thank you for the good news! And also, if I'm not mistaken, someone promised to pay more attention to the late stage of the game... ;)

Anti-E115 is... late-ish...? :D

But yeah, you're right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: alexander steel wolf on September 26, 2022, 09:49:49 pm
Hi!

I have tried version 2.6, and I have to say that the confrontations with the ghosts have seemed incredible to me (special mention to the music). They feel very novel and have a fairly appropriate difficulty. I hope this arc continues to develop and brings many more surprises.

I would also like to ask you a couple of questions that have arisen:

1º Do you plan to further develop the arc of the harheads (those robots that pass for humans and have factories). I think they're associated with T'leth, but it might be interesting if there was an AI like Skynet, and try to infiltrate the council or something. (I haven't played since version 2.2, but I don't think there has been any news about it. If so, I'm sorry I didn't let you know sooner)

2º Are there plans to explain and expand in arc form, those creatures from the sewers? (silt I think they were called), which look a lot like silacoids.

Thanks!

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 27, 2022, 10:24:57 am
I have tried version 2.6, and I have to say that the confrontations with the ghosts have seemed incredible to me (special mention to the music). They feel very novel and have a fairly appropriate difficulty. I hope this arc continues to develop and brings many more surprises.

Glad to hear that.
Kudos to Cosmic Afro, who is the main creator behind this arc!

1º Do you plan to further develop the arc of the harheads (those robots that pass for humans and have factories). I think they're associated with T'leth

Yes, they are made using T'leth tech. (Although it would be more accurate to say that they are humans that pass for robots...)

but it might be interesting if there was an AI like Skynet, and try to infiltrate the council or something. (I haven't played since version 2.2, but I don't think there has been any news about it. If so, I'm sorry I didn't let you know sooner)

We have a lot of factions already... Perhaps too many. :P

Some computer cult would be possible, but I have no such plans.

2º Are there plans to explain and expand in arc form, those creatures from the sewers? (silt I think they were called), which look a lot like silacoids.

Not really. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: alexander steel wolf on September 27, 2022, 12:09:26 pm
Thanks for the answers!

I have some suggestions on that:

1º I think either the sewer quest should be removed, or those creatures should be associated with the syndicate. Right now it is a mission with a derisory penalty, it does not add anything to the investigation and the story, and on top of that it gives the feeling that it is "residual" content. The content should always be focused on making the player want to "replay" and go deeper into those missions, and not as a simple paperwork.

2º I'm playing x-piratez and I have seen to my surprise that there are "paths" (codex, gals are superior...), I thought that maybe the excess of factions could be solved in a similar way. By getting promotion three, the secret factions would contact you (illuminati, the grid...) and you could choose one of them or none ("masochistic" path). In this way, you would choose who you want to have as enemies and who you don't (I don't know if that can be done currently in the mod). For example, if you choose the illuminati, the men in black would be your allies and missions from them would never appear (and if one day there was already a different ending based on this choice, it would be perfect). I know that as a player it's easy to "imagine" too much, but I'll leave it there just in case.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 27, 2022, 02:48:27 pm
1º I think either the sewer quest should be removed, or those creatures should be associated with the syndicate. Right now it is a mission with a derisory penalty, it does not add anything to the investigation and the story, and on top of that it gives the feeling that it is "residual" content. The content should always be focused on making the player want to "replay" and go deeper into those missions, and not as a simple paperwork.

Sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying the mission is too boring? Or that it doesn't fit the overall theme of the mod? Because "it's not related to a bigger arc" doesn't tell me much.

2º I'm playing x-piratez and I have seen to my surprise that there are "paths" (codex, gals are superior...), I thought that maybe the excess of factions could be solved in a similar way. By getting promotion three, the secret factions would contact you (illuminati, the grid...) and you could choose one of them or none ("masochistic" path). In this way, you would choose who you want to have as enemies and who you don't (I don't know if that can be done currently in the mod). For example, if you choose the illuminati, the men in black would be your allies and missions from them would never appear (and if one day there was already a different ending based on this choice, it would be perfect). I know that as a player it's easy to "imagine" too much, but I'll leave it there just in case.

I do have such ideas, in fact! But I don't know if I ever get there...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: alexander steel wolf on September 27, 2022, 06:38:34 pm
Ok, I hope to see ideas like that one day (although I suppose it will be very difficult and tedious to program).

Regarding the sewer mission, I don't mean one thing or the other. Let's see if I can explain myself with google.

As a player I perceive that this mod offers a perspective of a more detective x-com. That is, not only is there to stop the invasion, but to solve all kinds of mysteries. In that sense, the mission of the sewers would not be out of place (and personally I don't find it boring either).

The problem is that I see that the mod has an "internal logic". Threats fall into two categories:

1º Those that are part of popular folklore (they are myths and legends about creatures and events that do not appear in the mod)

2ºThose that in the end do turn out to be real.

Everything that is part of the second group becomes a priority for x-com, either destroying the threat and investigating where it comes from (and already reaching the conclusion if it is better to "leave it alone", as if it happens with the dimension x, or try to destroy it permanently).

It is true that not everything has to have an explanation (in fact, sometimes it is for the best), but there is no investigation after the mission that tries to reflect that x-com has tried to investigate the nature of the threat (or at least is very vague, treated more like a legend than something real).

The "wizard did it" philosophy could also be applied, but I think it would then work better as a self-contained quest, like the thing's quest, that had a reward upon completion (eg receiving 1000 points).

In conclusion: it does not add anything to the story, it does not pose any threat (as it has a very low penalty and there are many other missions to do each month), it does not have any reward, and I feel that it does not follow an internal logic either. Since there are many ideas to develop, it is still better to discard this idea (or at least reform it, even if it is not in the form of an arc).

Thanks for the patience!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Vakrug on September 27, 2022, 08:13:32 pm
Quote
I think they're associated with T'leth
Yes, they are made using T'leth tech.
But how does jarheads related to "The Bureau: XCOM Declassified"? Or may be they are related to "UNIT"? But I can't figure out what was the basis for that "UNIT". This is not an XCOM game, right?

Let's see if I can explain myself with google.
Well, let me help you!  :D
It was a brilliant idea from a storytelling perspective to combine every single piece of XCOM lore (including Xenonauts) into a single game. You should have stopped there, but you didn't and included in this game completely unrelated stuff: ghosts, xenomorphs, that goo from sewer and even DOOM! Right now that stuff is incorporated in the game pretty badly. Technically mutnat-animals, zombies and underground creatures also are not part of XCOM lore, but their stories are written better.

By the way, after I started to play XPiratez I made a conclusion, that XCOM Files is actually a prequel to XPiratez (an older mod), and not so much an extension to original XCOM. Is it true?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 27, 2022, 08:19:22 pm
@alexander steel wolf:
All right, now I think I fully get your point.

I understand the need for consistency, but I have to say, your standards are very strict. ;)

I added this mission mostly for a gameplay reason - to make the player battle under atypical circumstances (special environment and special enemies). It is not the only one-off mission like this; for instance, Asylum Apparitions was a good example for years (although more ghost missions were added later).

I am not going to remove this mission, that's for sure. It's there for a reason. What should I do - make a whole arc with an ooze invasion? Nah. Tie this to some already present force, like the Syndicate? Maybe...

But how does jarheads related to "The Bureau: XCOM Declassified"? Or may be they are related to "UNIT"? But I can't figure out what was the basis for that "UNIT". This is not an XCOM game, right?

I... don't get what you mean. What about X-Com Declassified? What is a "basis for UNIT"? What is not an X-Com game (because XCF definitely is)?

By the way, after I started to play XPiratez I made a conclusion, that XCOM Files is actually a prequel to XPiratez (an older mod), and not so much an extension to original XCOM. Is it true?

Yeah, I mean it's not super set in stone or whatever, but in general Dioxine and I are following the same canon. So yes, you can think of Piratez as "XCF 600 years after X-Com lost", if you want.

Maybe one day we'll make a mod 600 years after X-Com won! ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Vakrug on September 27, 2022, 08:49:03 pm
I... don't get what you mean. What about X-Com Declassified? What is a "basis for UNIT"? What is not an X-Com game (because XCF definitely is)?
Research tree: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_XCOM_HISTORY_UNIT (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_XCOM_HISTORY_UNIT)
You need to research Xenonauts and Jarheads to research UNIT. (And "Bureau" is next in line.) Is that a pure coincidence?

Yeah, I mean it's not super set in stone or whatever, but in general Dioxine and I are following the same canon. So yes, you can think of Piratez as "XCF 600 years after X-Com lost", if you want.
Maybe one day we'll make a mod 600 years after X-Com won! ;)
That is one sensational revelation!
In that case few things bother me in this story.
First, originally (in original XCOM) Deep Ones were dormant and only the destruction of Cydonia awoken them. But it looks like this is not the case in XCOM Files. So why nobody noticed them earlier?
Second, when zombie parasite was researched initially, player was told that basically aliens are spreading them from UFOs. But then it appears that zombies existed for a long time. And in XPirates they are referred as cosmic plague or something. Sadly I haven't finished zombie arc (because it is much easier to kill an alien brain than to figure out how to progress in secondary stories  >:( ), so may be answers are there, but right now I feel like numbers does not adds up...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: alexander steel wolf on September 27, 2022, 10:16:47 pm
Ok, having the creatures from the sewer quest become part of the syndicate would be a good solution. In that case, I would add that the mission had a higher penalty (at least -150), so it would already have the incentive of being a threat to the monthly score.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 28, 2022, 04:57:39 pm
Research tree: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_XCOM_HISTORY_UNIT (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_XCOM_HISTORY_UNIT)
You need to research Xenonauts and Jarheads to research UNIT. (And "Bureau" is next in line.) Is that a pure coincidence?

It's not a coincidence. They just aesthetically fit the concept of UNIT... So why not them?

That is one sensational revelation!
In that case few things bother me in this story.
First, originally (in original XCOM) Deep Ones were dormant and only the destruction of Cydonia awoken them. But it looks like this is not the case in XCOM Files. So why nobody noticed them earlier?

Yeah, this is a bit of a sensitive topic. Gnerally speaking, during the events of XCF, T'Leth is sleeping (and will take a couple decades after your victory for it to truly activate), but some of its agents (mostly Deep Ones) are somewhat active, mostly chilling in depths or making periodical incursions into the surface world to probe it.

It is not 100% in line with TFTD's story, but to be perfectly honest the game was mostly a rushed reskin of X-Com 1 and its writing was questionable in many places. In general I do consider it canon, but I don't fret over all the little details, because the studio didn't care much about consistency either.

Second, when zombie parasite was researched initially, player was told that basically aliens are spreading them from UFOs. But then it appears that zombies existed for a long time. And in XPirates they are referred as cosmic plague or something. Sadly I haven't finished zombie arc (because it is much easier to kill an alien brain than to figure out how to progress in secondary stories  >:( ), so may be answers are there, but right now I feel like numbers does not adds up...

Well, long story short, both are true: UFOs experiment with them, much like they experiment on cows and humans. But still, the zombie presence on Earth is very old... Finishing that arc should answer your question at least partially.

Ok, having the creatures from the sewer quest become part of the syndicate would be a good solution. In that case, I would add that the mission had a higher penalty (at least -150), so it would already have the incentive of being a threat to the monthly score.

OK; right now I can't put it very high on the priority list, but I'll keep this in mind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: termidor on September 29, 2022, 11:37:59 pm
Well apparently my post wasn't register, some quick question/comments

What is the reason damage rolls/damage bonus/sprays are different in some very similar weapons ie lack of consistency? Example melee weapons like the machete, hunting rifle 0-200 vs bolt action, damage bost in Fn fal and Hk G11, Pkm and Minimi  having one shot snaps while Mg 3 and M240 have 2 etc...

I think two firing formulas need to be revised/reworked: Thorwn weapons like knifes and ninja stars being a guarantee hit at close ranges with not that high thrown skills, and the bravery+ acc^2 formula in some snipers (why do you need to be brave to shoot a sniper rifle? )

Ligth cannon, after the introduction of the OICW , seem very useless even with all the ammo types, due to low accuracy and not great weigth efficiency.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 30, 2022, 12:17:49 pm
Well apparently my post wasn't register, some quick question/comments

What is the reason damage rolls/damage bonus/sprays are different in some very similar weapons ie lack of consistency? Example melee weapons like the machete, hunting rifle 0-200 vs bolt action, damage bost in Fn fal and Hk G11, Pkm and Minimi  having one shot snaps while Mg 3 and M240 have 2 etc...

I think two firing formulas need to be revised/reworked: Thorwn weapons like knifes and ninja stars being a guarantee hit at close ranges with not that high thrown skills, and the bravery+ acc^2 formula in some snipers (why do you need to be brave to shoot a sniper rifle? )

Ligth cannon, after the introduction of the OICW , seem very useless even with all the ammo types, due to low accuracy and not great weigth efficiency.

Your post was made just fine, although it was grossly off-topic and I moved it here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10789.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 02, 2022, 11:15:51 am
Well, this is kinda silly. That guy can start his own demolition company with zero initial expenses. :)


Also, it kinda bugs me that Aquatoids in downed subs are dual-wielding Sonic pistols and Aqua-plastic axes. Seems kinda... un-Aquatoid to me. Then again, the little fuckers would carry around drills almost as big as themselves back in TFTD and we all love Sectoids toting plasma guns larger than themselves, so what do I know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on October 03, 2022, 07:55:35 am
It might be a good idea to create an archive of submods or just things explicitly compatible for ease of reference, and to ensure they don't vanish into the void. The mod that lets you start in 1994 for example isn't on the io site for example.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2022, 12:23:12 pm
Also, it kinda bugs me that Aquatoids in downed subs are dual-wielding Sonic pistols and Aqua-plastic axes. Seems kinda... un-Aquatoid to me. Then again, the little fuckers would carry around drills almost as big as themselves back in TFTD and we all love Sectoids toting plasma guns larger than themselves, so what do I know.

Yeah it's a bit weird, I just never got around to making custom deployments for USOs, since they're so rare anyway. Maybe some day - it's not a big deal, but there are thousands of such small deals at every corner. ;)

It might be a good idea to create an archive of submods or just things explicitly compatible for ease of reference, and to ensure they don't vanish into the void. The mod that lets you start in 1994 for example isn't on the io site for example.

I guess it'd be good, yeah. Also for me. But I'm not the one to do it, since I don't even follow these things very regularly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Vakrug on October 03, 2022, 02:20:00 pm
Are Aquatoids even able to do melee? When I stormed sunked Cruiser with Aquatoids I tried to hit them with stun sticks. I was confident, that if I stand right next to an enemy unit, then this enemy unit can only react with melee attacks. But those little green men fired instead (with predictable results)! I believe this could only happen with units not capable to do melee (like hybrid drones). Is that true?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 03, 2022, 02:24:38 pm
Are Aquatoids even able to do melee? When I stormed sunked Cruiser with Aquatoids I tried to hit them with stun sticks. I was confident, that if I stand right next to an enemy unit, then this enemy unit can only react with melee attacks. But those little green men fired instead (with predictable results)! I believe this could only happen with units not capable to do melee (like hybrid drones). Is that true?

Yes, they can use melee. Why this one didn't in this particular situation I cannot say... Maybe no TUs to slash, but enough to shoot?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mathel on October 04, 2022, 05:45:53 pm
Are Aquatoids even able to do melee? When I stormed sunked Cruiser with Aquatoids I tried to hit them with stun sticks. I was confident, that if I stand right next to an enemy unit, then this enemy unit can only react with melee attacks. But those little green men fired instead (with predictable results)! I believe this could only happen with units not capable to do melee (like hybrid drones). Is that true?
The way it works is that melee has priority if the reacter has a melee weapon equipped. For humans, an empty hand is considered a melee weapon. I don't know if aquatoid empty hand is a melee weapon, but if it had two pistols, then it didn't even have that. With no melee weapon available, it's only option was to shoot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: zx_79 on October 06, 2022, 08:38:43 am
As this is my first post, big thanks for this marvellous work, I`ve been positively taken by the game after trying the X-Files. Can`t imagine going back to vanilla! Please clarify something for me:

1. Where do I get the Tritanium Matrix? Being in dire need of Alien Alloys for the improved lab, I only encountered a couple of small scouts up until now, and the wiki says it just *exists* and is required to be researched, but no possible sources provided. I coooould go back to 2.5 where it wasn`t needed to research the foundry, but still.

2. Same tier "Master of %weapon%" and "Bane of %race%" commendations do not stack, with only one of each tier being applied, thus the soldier can actually decrease stats with new kills - say, racking 100 Zombies to get tier 6 will cancel out the existing tier 6 from 100 cultists, so -2 for three relevant stats, despite being technically more experienced. Would be a welcome change if that is possible.

Couple UI/Quality of Life suggestions:

1. To reveal commendation progress counter somewhere, probably on personal files page. Like, if clicking soldier`s Trooper award details, aside from stat bonus provided, also see "current count is X, next level is on Y".

1.1. To add number of kills with weapon to the damage tooltip shown when Alt is pressed in Inventory screen. Saves the player from going to Agent List, then Files > Combat to see which weapon the soldier progressed with and memorizing who gets what gun.

1.2. To get the same info - damage and kill count - also for an unarmed attack when Alt is pressed on the empty hand.

2. To keep currently equipped items on the squad selection "Preview" screen, to be able to quickly see potential accuracy and TU cost for all fire modes available not having to bring the gun in actual combat and then find out you don`t shoot it really well. Or Alt-Tab to the wiki, do calculations manually and memorize everything.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 06, 2022, 11:48:23 am
As this is my first post, big thanks for this marvellous work, I`ve been positively taken by the game after trying the X-Files. Can`t imagine going back to vanilla!

Thank you!

1. Where do I get the Tritanium Matrix? Being in dire need of Alien Alloys for the improved lab, I only encountered a couple of small scouts up until now, and the wiki says it just *exists* and is required to be researched, but no possible sources provided. I coooould go back to 2.5 where it wasn`t needed to research the foundry, but still.

Finding this is not an easy matter now. Also it's a spoiler, so I'll hide it just in case:

Alien Colonies (big bases) and MiB Bases.

2. Same tier "Master of %weapon%" and "Bane of %race%" commendations do not stack, with only one of each tier being applied, thus the soldier can actually decrease stats with new kills - say, racking 100 Zombies to get tier 6 will cancel out the existing tier 6 from 100 cultists, so -2 for three relevant stats, despite being technically more experienced. Would be a welcome change if that is possible.

1. To reveal commendation progress counter somewhere, probably on personal files page. Like, if clicking soldier`s Trooper award details, aside from stat bonus provided, also see "current count is X, next level is on Y".

1.1. To add number of kills with weapon to the damage tooltip shown when Alt is pressed in Inventory screen. Saves the player from going to Agent List, then Files > Combat to see which weapon the soldier progressed with and memorizing who gets what gun.

1.2. To get the same info - damage and kill count - also for an unarmed attack when Alt is pressed on the empty hand.

2. To keep currently equipped items on the squad selection "Preview" screen, to be able to quickly see potential accuracy and TU cost for all fire modes available not having to bring the gun in actual combat and then find out you don`t shoot it really well. Or Alt-Tab to the wiki, do calculations manually and memorize everything.

All these are entirely on the game code side, not the mod code side. Please contact OXCE developers to discuss such matters. The relevant subforum is here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,22.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Vakrug on October 09, 2022, 03:58:54 pm
Maybe no TUs to slash, but enough to shoot?
After more playing (not XCOM Files, but it looks like this is vanilla problem) I came to conclusion that reaction shooting gets priority over melee if reaction shot takes less TU then melee attack. This can happen if a unit has low total TU, since TU to fire is in percentage and melee TU is scalar. If "melee gets priority over shooting" is some kind an official rule, then this looks like a bug. Sadly I cannot provide a save file, because it is pretty rare problem and when that happens it is already too late. May be I will be able to capture this situation someday and report that...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: termidor on October 11, 2022, 06:28:57 pm
So, I'm missing something or is blood boosting just plain worse than X com bio-enhament ? You get very similar stats gain with the two but Blood boosting completely tanks sanity and bravery + leaving an agent unusable for 48 days (whoa !) + blocking other transformation. Is there anything more beyond the stats gain and the 1 extra day visibility (which also seems very situational)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on October 11, 2022, 06:49:51 pm
One thing i noticed (After like.... 5-6 campaigns of this mod) in armoured vests description, it says it provides protection against shrapnel and explosives, but it doesnt actually do the latter, it has no concussive protection.
(https://i.imgur.com/KXC7S13.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 11, 2022, 06:59:38 pm
The vest does provide 12 points of armour against explosives. :P



On Blood Boosting, only basic agents are eligible for Bio-Enhancement. If you've cyborged them already, too bad. Blood Boosting has no such limitation.

You can also get both at the same time. Blood Boosting is a tradeoff against Martial Arts Training, Gun Kata and Dagonization, not Bio-Enhancement.

Blood Boosting:

Martial Arts Training, Gun Kata and Dagonization:

IMO, this is in no way a good tradeoff unless you need some disposable buffed agents now, and the long treatment time means this will never be a case.

Maybe Solarius forgot that recoveryTime is not in hours. Or maybe it's another thing that makes sense to him from a fluff POV, but doesn't translate well into gameplay.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Advancement on October 11, 2022, 07:04:33 pm
What are requirments for Kyberism and Helix Psion?
None of my agent can use this transformation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 11, 2022, 07:21:17 pm
Kyberism: TNI installed, Medbay, Kyberism researched (so you need to be pretty far along the Cyberweb arc), basic bitch agent (no dogs, rats, hybrids or other mutants allowed).

Helix Psion: Hybrid agents only with TNI installed, Martial Arts and Combat Piloting learned, Sectoid Legacy rituals conducted, Helix Psion researched (Psionics + all the necessary research for the previous four tranformations).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: termidor on October 14, 2022, 02:03:40 pm
Is power armor from MAGMA a bit too easy? You only need elerium battery and terramite , the first one that you get once you have an improved laboratory online, and the second one I got from reptilians doing terraforming missions. I got power armor in april 1999 and it takes away all difficulty from my remaining human missions (which to be fair are hybrids and Cult of apo ) and make underwater missions significally easier as well.

Regarding that, I also get the feeling that difficulty curve is a bit strange. Hybrids for instance comes after taking out a cult base afaik and most of the missions the equipment carry is very low tier, with the higher tier missions stepping up. Same with the syndicate, although the syndicate offensive missions are a step up compare to the cults, armored vest +spiderwear , let alone if you bring tritanium vest which are going to be even harder to pierce. Finally Cyberweb Dimension X missions are hard (and that is good), but the earth missions feel surprisingly easy, specially taking the portal which can beeone with surprisisngly low numbers ( I think in this regard the lack of snap shot capacities really make dealing with then easier).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 14, 2022, 03:10:29 pm
Is power armor from MAGMA a bit too easy? You only need elerium battery and terramite , the first one that you get once you have an improved laboratory online, and the second one I got from reptilians doing terraforming missions. I got power armor in april 1999 and it takes away all difficulty from my remaining human missions (which to be fair are hybrids and Cult of apo ) and make underwater missions significally easier as well.

Yeah, maybe; balancing this is a nightmare and it's never just right.

Regarding that, I also get the feeling that difficulty curve is a bit strange. Hybrids for instance comes after taking out a cult base afaik and most of the missions the equipment carry is very low tier, with the higher tier missions stepping up. Same with the syndicate, although the syndicate offensive missions are a step up compare to the cults, armored vest +spiderwear , let alone if you bring tritanium vest which are going to be even harder to pierce. Finally Cyberweb Dimension X missions are hard (and that is good), but the earth missions feel surprisingly easy, specially taking the portal which can beeone with surprisisngly low numbers ( I think in this regard the lack of snap shot capacities really make dealing with then easier).

I generally agree, but I don't think Earth mission against the Cyberweb should be hard. They have killer robots and that's it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Jimboman on October 14, 2022, 04:52:00 pm
Is power armor from MAGMA a bit too easy? You only need elerium battery and terramite , the first one that you get once you have an improved laboratory online, and the second one I got from reptilians doing terraforming missions. I got power armor in april 1999

I guess you were just lucky with RNG.  I'm in late 2000 and the only power armour I have is one or two I managed to capture from the MiB.  I can't even research elerium batteries yet.

As for missions...

Some are really difficult, like trying to take on an office block with 5 or 6 agents only armed with handguns against 20-plus bad guys (on the easiest level!).  Not to mention those Cult of Apocalypse missions with lots of bad guys, some of who have rocket launchers....  ....and my best craft is a Skyranger.  Using my Kitsune on one such mission was a slaughter fest because my agents got killed with a lucky rocket shot right into the troop-bay.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: termidor on October 14, 2022, 07:26:57 pm
Yeah, maybe; balancing this is a nightmare and it's never just right.
For an idea, I think sharing the two techs could give you power armor squematcis which fullfil the power armor known prerequisite, and then have an event 3-4 months latter saying that M.A.G.M.A has started production of power armor and are avatible for sale (as really preparing the production line  would take time never the less) .

Also power armor gets default unharmed atatck, doesn't seem intended.

Also a different matter, are the council factions going to remain fluff or are plans regarding then? I think it was interesting to get more lore on the council and the council power struggle is probably one of the most interesting aspects beyond the MiB.
I guess you were just lucky with RNG.  I'm in late 2000 and the only power armour I have is one or two I managed to capture from the MiB.  I can't even research elerium batteries yet.

As for missions...

Some are really difficult, like trying to take on an office block with 5 or 6 agents only armed with handguns against 20-plus bad guys (on the easiest level!).  Not to mention those Cult of Apocalypse missions with lots of bad guys, some of who have rocket launchers....  ....and my best craft is a Skyranger.  Using my Kitsune on one such mission was a slaughter fest because my agents got killed with a lucky rocket shot right into the troop-bay.
I love cult of Apocalypse missions ! They are a murder fest that makes crow control weapons really shine. But yes rng is a big factor, and infiltartion mission are usually harder than normal ones, but that is fine imo, as they aren't that common and offer some variety.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on October 19, 2022, 05:17:23 am
I think I may have realized a bit of cheese, though I doubt I'm the first.

The miniguns are really inaccurate, but manage to get a few hits per burst anyway through sheer weight of fire. This is obviously by design, and works well. However, I just had a mission where my minigun-toting agent scored quite a few kills, and walked away with several levels of the "lucky" commendation. Idk if commendations can only be leveled up once per mission, and I just hadn't noticed the previous ones, but he's getting at least one lucky commendation every mission. His accuracy is gonna go sky-high real fucking quick-like.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 19, 2022, 08:34:46 am
Even if your agent maxes that commendation in a few missions, that's +10 firing accuracy, once. Not quite sky-high, IMO.

Not that this isn't funny. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: AmanitaVerna on October 20, 2022, 04:43:10 pm
I'm in January 2000 and I've been using power armor for a while (I rushed elerium batteries in an attempt to get gauss weapons, but still haven't gotten any aliens to reveal the secrets of antimatter containment. Elerium battery's prereqs did get me mass drivers and lasers, though, which is nice). I don't really think power armor needs to be nerfed - at $750,000 a suit, you're spending a significant chunk of your budget to outfit entire squads with it, and it's destroyed completely when an agent wearing it dies, so you have to buy it all over again. Plasma weapons, such as even sectoids have in early 1999, have a fair chance to penetrate and deal fatal wounds or even outright kill agents. Power armor definitely helps protect your best agents, but it isn't a miracle armor, and by buying it you sacrifice whatever facilities you could have built with that money instead. Plus you also sacrifice the backpack slots too, which means you can't really carry multiple two handed weapons (and have to run back to the vehicle to swap to a different one), or much extra ammo for weapons with bulky ammo, like the taser cannon, which I'm still using in January 2000. And you can't crouch, so you lose the aim bonus and lowered chance to be shot from that.

Power armor has made all my underwater missions trivial, though, but I haven't progressed them very far - I've been more focused on the space aliens and shogg etc since they seem like greater threats. The sonic weapons I've seen so far just have a near-zero (but not quite zero, I've had agents take damage a few times from lucky shots) chance to do damage to someone in power armor. And gunpowder weapons also don't do anything against it. Maybe if syndicate had better ones. I haven't done the math but I wonder if the asuka 4000 could penetrate it. Gauss weapons can definitely penetrate it, but that's no surprise, given how powerful those are.

I'm willing to pay the premium for power armor because I'm trying to keep as many agents as possible alive, and because the council of funding nations has been throwing money at me hand over fist since mid-1999 or so. When I first got power armor, though, I couldn't afford more than one or two suits a month, and that used much of my budget at the time.

Oh, and as an experiment, earlier this year IRL, I tried sending power armored agents to try to melee a vampire knight. The vampire knight cuts through power armor like a hot chainsaw through butter. So project "capture a vampire knight with stun spears" was a no-go, lol.

Iirc I shut the cults down before I got power armor, except possibly for the one I left for last (the American one, EXALT), and I think I only had two or three suits of it on their final mission? I had most of my troops in heavy tactical suits or heavy tritanium suits for most of the cult campaigns, once I had the tech (I couldn't always afford to keep everyone outfitted with them).

But also I got lucky and captured a landed UFO in 1998, which provided a huge boost to my research efforts. And iirc I shut the cults down by December 1998, with the possible exception of EXALT. I don't remember if I finished them off in late December or early January.

If anyone is wondering my current tech level, as indicated by what equipment I'm bringing to missions: Depending on the mission, my agents use taser cannons, laser rifles, asuka 4000s, occasionally a couple var assault cannons, or stun spears (for syndicate, osiron, or the new ghosts). Also tritanium handcuffs, medi-kits, advanced healing sprays (for self-healing), emp grenades for indoors turrets. For really difficult things, I bring gauss rifles or pistols, but I haven't unlocked the techs to manufacture my own or to make more ammo for them, so I use them sparingly since I only have what I've captured. I've got Natasha's custom sniper rifle too, of course, which does an incredible amount of damage in the hands of an expert sharpshooter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Advancement on October 20, 2022, 06:27:50 pm
You probably haven't meet yet Terror alien ships with lazer turrets outside. Juggernaut armor gets penetrated easy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 20, 2022, 06:31:27 pm
I don't really think power armor needs to be nerfed - at $750,000 a suit, you're spending a significant chunk of your budget to outfit entire squads with it, and it's destroyed completely when an agent wearing it dies, so you have to buy it all over again.

Plus you also sacrifice the backpack slots too...

...can't crouch...
Fair points, though people do complain about getting showered with money after a while.

Plasma weapons, such as even sectoids have in early 1999, have a fair chance to penetrate and deal fatal wounds or even outright kill agents.
But this is not really true. A Plasma Pistol does 52 damage on average, using the Irwin-Hall(ish) (2d100/2) distribution that skews more towards the mean. Power Armor has a 120% Plasma modifier, so it's ~62 damage vs 70-100 armour. Your typical PP shot just bounces off the MAGMA product.

Even a Plasma Rifle at 80*1.2 = 96 will usually be shrugged off by the front and side plates. And most any agent should have more than even the ~16 damage they might get from being shot in the back. Random chance might screw things up and get instakills, of course. But the I-H distribution makes sure it's a lot rarer than usual.

It takes one of the big plasma weapons to start being genuinely threatened by single hits.

Of course, all plasma also eats away your armour so it's inadvisable to repeatedly try and tank plasma shots, but that goes for every single armour in the game.



Yet the original issue termidor raised was getting to faceroll human enemies, and kinetic damage is where PA is hands down the best personal armour in the game. HE (and sonics, which share the damage type with HE ??? ) to a lesser degree as well.



I haven't done the math but I wonder if the asuka 4000 could penetrate it.
60-70 kinetic damage with a high-reactions agent, 0-200% roll, so max of ~140*0.8 = 112 vs 80-100 armour (or 70 if you manage to walk right over an Asuka in ambush :) ). But for non-rear, non-under-armour hits, that only happens ~( 101/0.8 )/140 ~ 9% of the time, and mostly single-digit damage at that.

Gauss weapons can definitely penetrate it, but that's no surprise, given how powerful those are.
Really? In my experience, only Gauss Sniper (because all sniper weapons are triple-dipping and thus OP as hell on the damage front) and Heavy can do so reliably. Gauss Rifles are a roulette rigged against you and Gauss Pistols, well, you might as well not bother. Magma Power Armour is the reverse Power Suit, supreme against kinetic damage but much weaker against plasma.

The vampire knight cuts through power armor like a hot chainsaw through butter.
Eh, that's not unique to VKs. All the scaling melee weapons do a ton of damage. See here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10804.msg149713.html#msg149713) for agent w/big axe vs UFO.

Melee in XCF is a game of death tag due to dodge bonuses and damage scaling with stats. Solarius's position is that "It's the only way to have meaningful melee." :-\
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 22, 2022, 02:12:54 pm
Haven't been active recently due to a nasty flu or whatever it is. I'm a bit better now, so I can type, but still in bed.

Also power armor gets default unharmed atatck, doesn't seem intended.

If you meant default unarmed attack", then no, it doesn't.

The discussion about Power Armor is interesting, I'll keep an eye on this.

Also a different matter, are the council factions going to remain fluff or are plans regarding then? I think it was interesting to get more lore on the council and the council power struggle is probably one of the most interesting aspects beyond the MiB. I love cult of Apocalypse missions ! They are a murder fest that makes crow control weapons really shine. But yes rng is a big factor, and infiltartion mission are usually harder than normal ones, but that is fine imo, as they aren't that common and offer some variety.

I hope to make them more directly present in the future, yes.

I think I may have realized a bit of cheese, though I doubt I'm the first.

The miniguns are really inaccurate, but manage to get a few hits per burst anyway through sheer weight of fire. This is obviously by design, and works well. However, I just had a mission where my minigun-toting agent scored quite a few kills, and walked away with several levels of the "lucky" commendation. Idk if commendations can only be leveled up once per mission, and I just hadn't noticed the previous ones, but he's getting at least one lucky commendation every mission. His accuracy is gonna go sky-high real fucking quick-like.

It's true, but there isn't much I can do about it. That's how it works.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Zharkov on October 23, 2022, 01:45:41 pm
I have been playing x-files for some time now and I am very impressed with storyline and presentation. It is really great and atmospheric. A lot of effort was put into this and it shows! However, there is imho unnecessary difficulty all over the place (e.g., too many manors turning the world into MiG alley and when you try to take out the manors there are enemy reinforcements spawning right next to your peeps killing them without any chance to react). Balancing seems off, because at the same time you get missions where you fight 1 (one) zombie. The only way to win this game seems to rush certain techs and huge amounts of grinding. This makes it very hard for the more casual gamer to enjoy the story and explore the game world.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 23, 2022, 02:27:17 pm
Thanks for the input. I am aware of the issue with too many manors and will probably do something about it when I'm back to the world of living from this flu.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: superpippo90 on October 23, 2022, 06:25:54 pm
I came back to X-Com Files after a few years, and tried to start a new run on Beginner difficulty. I wanted to try how survivable the game is on easiest mode when you play casually.
I start losing points to two or three random events before the first mission shows up. Ok.
I go for my first apprehension, and I start exploring the place with my two agents (equipped with Glock and stun baton). With playing casually I mean that I'm not employing any advanced tactics, but I'm not making my agents run around like headless chickens either. Rng has one of them sniped from halfway across the map, from the side he wasn't looking at; the other one reaches the cultist and attacks twice with the baton, hitting once - not enough, the bad guy turns around and shivs her to death.
One save-scum later, the cultist is safely arrested and I go on: I interrogate him, arrest several more, get a van, all in all I'm starting to make a little progress, until I get hit by two -300 events about the cults still being elusive. Then, between days 15 and 21 of the first month, such events fire two more times, with three additional negative score hits from different happenings (the missed crop circles, the CIA, and I can't remember which other); I haven't counted how many events I got in total, but my score is below -1500 since my missions can't even remotely compensate, and research is only slightly making up for those random losses.
I can definitely survive, progress with my investigations and stop the score leaks; missions will get easier when appropriate equipment will be unlocked (most of them, at least), but I still haven't faced manors with their dreaded reinforcements. I feel that my casual playthrough test has already gathered enough data.

Now, I get wanting a difficult game, that's perfectly ok. But there are five difficulty levels, and in my opinion they shouldn't be "Very hard", "Very very hard", "Extremely hard", "Almost impossible" and "Totally impossible". I see a difficulty level labeled "Beginner" as something that a beginner, indeed, should be able to go through, getting slapped only if they mess up badly; my impression instead is that it still requires a lot of skill both on the tactical and strategical layers - if you don't optimize your playing, it mercilessly makes you fall more and more behind.

What do you think?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on October 23, 2022, 10:03:23 pm
I have been playing x-files for some time now and I am very impressed with storyline and presentation. It is really great and atmospheric. A lot of effort was put into this and it shows! However, there is imho unnecessary difficulty all over the place (e.g., too many manors turning the world into MiG alley and when you try to take out the manors there are enemy reinforcements spawning right next to your peeps killing them without any chance to react). Balancing seems off, because at the same time you get missions where you fight 1 (one) zombie. The only way to win this game seems to rush certain techs and huge amounts of grinding. This makes it very hard for the more casual gamer to enjoy the story and explore the game world.

Here is a dirty trick, the reinforcements spawning is completely RNG, just save at the end of your each turn and save scum your way through it. I dont mind the concept of reinforcements but this early it feels really cheap to have squad of soldiers randomly spawning behind your squads and shooting them in the back. The missions are already dauting for early game.
If like reinforcements came every eight or tenth turn, then it would be atleast better in a way you know when its time to position your soldiers with walls behind them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 23, 2022, 10:51:11 pm
What do you think?
That a megamod isn't really something you play 'casually'. The time commitment alone is huge.

But I've also seen a lot of streamers absolutely faff around like headless chickens and succeed, either intentionally, because they're lazy/bored, or because they are casuals. Not to mention all the unbalanced stuff that can work for the player as easily as against them.

random events
Yeah, this mod is big on hitting you with RNG, often invisible RNG at that.

Now, I don't actually dislike this in general, and if something really gets on my nerves I can (mostly) just mod it away. But it's not an uncontroversial feature.

But there are five difficulty levels, and in my opinion they shouldn't be "Very hard", "Very very hard", "Extremely hard", "Almost impossible" and "Totally impossible".
Eh, there are people who play Superhuman Ironman and even have success. Higher difficulties have the issue of showering the player with loot and points from all the upscaled enemy numbers, so once you start snowballing, you snowball harder.

Also, most mods are something made by veteran players for veteran players, so the assumption is that you're looking for more challenge rather than less. Think TFTD instead of UFO. :D

...my impression instead is that it still requires a lot of skill both on the tactical and strategical layers - if you don't optimize your playing, it mercilessly makes you fall more and more behind.
How is that a bad thing? :P

But, unless you have no expansion strategy at all (and thus fail at the strategy part of the strategy game), I don't think it's as bad as you're picturing here.



Anyway, there are ways you can make the game easier for yourself. Bring back the 50% accuracy and armour penalty for Beginner enemies, for example. There are many other difficulty constants you could play with. If you find some happy equilibrium and share it, I'm sure Solarius will take a close look.

But making the whole game have a meaningfully 'casual' difficulty in everything (beyond just some multipliers) is such a massive undertaking I don't even want to think about it. I suspect Solarius doesn't, either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on October 23, 2022, 10:56:00 pm

I go for my first apprehension, and I start exploring the place with my two agents (equipped with Glock and stun baton). With playing casually I mean that I'm not employing any advanced tactics, but I'm not making my agents run around like headless chickens either. Rng has one of them sniped from halfway across the map, from the side he wasn't looking at; the other one reaches the cultist and attacks twice with the baton, hitting once - not enough, the bad guy turns around and shivs her to death.
One save-scum later, the cultist is safely arrested and I go on: I interrogate him, arrest several more, get a van, all in all I'm starting to make a little progress, until I get hit by two -300 events about the cults still being elusive. Then, between days 15 and 21 of the first month, such events fire two more times, with three additional negative score hits from different happenings (the missed crop circles, the CIA, and I can't remember which other); I haven't counted how many events I got in total, but my score is below -1500 since my missions can't even remotely compensate, and research is only slightly making up for those random losses.


The begining is extremely hard, you really need to do as many missions as possible. Make sure to research logistics with upmost priority because that gives you a van (Which can carry 4 soldiers).
It doesnt help that the Cult apprehenction, which spawns alot, has negative 200 penalty if you ignore it. And if you complete it by capping cultists, without losing people you get like 10 or 12 points.
For cult appreh. in particular, you should do this at night (van can wait if you order it to patrol on the spot, van has infinite fuel so it can wait), because humans have awful eye sight at night so its actually possible for you to get to melee/shotgun range without having to dodge bullets across the street.

Researching shotguns (Its under the non-standard weapons research topic) is also SUPER important, not only shotgun completely destroys most humans (and animals) in one or two hits and reasonable range, most importantly, they can fire stun ammo, your first medium range stun weapon, it has the benefit that enemies cant dodge it if they get hit (Also that you can simply stand outside of their melee range) melee weapons can be dodged on top of just failing to land on the enemy so in the early game, melee weapons are very unreliable (But later on, they can be really strong)

The 200 point penalty is quite ludicrous, but Solarius has already spoken about it staying that way to really hammer down that XCOM is a joke at the start of the game and the council looks at every oportunity to shut you down. So you have mission, that spawns alot, has large penalty and if you fuck up in any way in it, it will get you negative score.

Expect to have few failed campaigns, alot of this is trial and error. If you have more specific questions, we can always answer it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: superpippo90 on October 24, 2022, 12:05:37 am
@Juku121
I get your point about it being a megamod and intended for veterans, but since the difficulty levels exist, I guess one could try to offer an entry level that is more forgiving.
I actually like some of the difficulty in tactical missions, even if sometimes it's just frustrating. I mean, I remember more advanced missions that had stuff I couldn't even scratch, but it was also exciting in some way. The one things that annoys me the most is, I think, the fact that enemies have 100% TUs during the first turn, and thus full reactions (this is also a big complaint I've heard about reinforcements): in some missions there were so many enemies around that I couldn't step out without getting riddled with bullets, and to be honest having to do the smoke screen thing is pretty boring to me.
But how different from each other are the difficulty levels in the geoscape game?

By the way, I restarted and my second mission had the dimension X stuff. I got charged by the bees, two taser gun charges didn't bring them down, and I had to flee. On the brighter side, during the whole first month I only got three negative score events this time, for a total of -198 compared to the about -2000 of my other try. That's frankly too much difference, and I'd rather have the rng be toned down a bit in that regard.

@Mrvex
Thank you for all the advice. As I wrote in my other comment, I have already played an older version of this mod for a while, so I know how to get through. I was just reporting that playing on "Beginner" can feel too punishing for a more casual player.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 24, 2022, 12:38:26 am
I get your point about it being a megamod and intended for veterans, but since the difficulty levels exist, I guess one could try to offer an entry level that is more forgiving.
That's entirely valid, but the mod is still heavily WIP and Solarius has other priorities. I think he's said several times that he isn't taking any responsibility if you're not playing on Veteran.

My advice about tweaking the constants is that the easiest way to get a modder to include something is to do the legwork yourself. Barring a clash of vision - which does tend to happen with XCF more often than one would like - there's little reason not to accept. That's how zee_ra got Zrbite munitions disassembly into 2.6: he made me interested enough to make a mini-mod, and Solarius was happy enough to take it mostly as it was.

The one things that annoys me the most is, I think, the fact that enemies have 100% TUs during the first turn...
As they say, there's a (sub)mod  (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7308.msg119480.html#msg119480)for that. ;D

...and to be honest having to do the smoke screen thing is pretty boring to me.
The smoke screen is actually considerably nerfed from what it used to be, due to proliferation of heat-vision, psi-vision and especialy sniper-spotters.

But how different from each other are the difficulty levels in the geoscape game?
Never played on non-Veteran, so I don't really know. I imagine not vastly different, since the big thing constraining you is money and while higher difficulties make missions harder, they also give out more loot and score.

By the way, I restarted and my second mission had the dimension X stuff. I got charged by the bees, two taser gun charges didn't bring them down, and I had to flee.
Swarmids are supposed to be hard to take down with conventional weapons. Fire is their big weakness, but you don't really have any at the start of the game.

That's frankly too much difference, and I'd rather have the rng be toned down a bit in that regard.
That's nothing. Wait until you hit the random game-progression blocks because a man with a specific funny hat didn't get a mission to spawn, or didn't take his special gadget with him. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: superpippo90 on October 24, 2022, 01:49:10 am
I didn't know that other difficulties weren't 100% supported, I guess that changes things a bit. Still, I'd suggest Solarius to take my critic into account if he ever thinks about rebalancing them.

Thanks a lot for the mod link, I'll try it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Akamashi on October 25, 2022, 04:03:26 pm
I'm not sure if I have the right to write something like this, but I will. I had the mission of vampire castle. In my humble opinion, this mission should not be in xcomfiles in the form in which it is. I assure you, I tried to consider this "fortress" in every way, I always saw only a gray dump. There is no way at all to determine where the wall is and where the floor is. Where is the staircase, and where is the decoration. The quality of implementation is very disgusting. I would really like to have good content in this mod, and not see upsetting. My advice is that the vampire castle in the current implementation should be removed so as not to spoil the overall quality of the content.

I'm sorry that I allow myself such a review without doing anything to create good content.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 25, 2022, 05:16:15 pm
I assure you, I tried to consider this "fortress" in every way, I always saw only a gray dump. There is no way at all to determine where the wall is and where the floor is.
...
My advice is that the vampire castle in the current implementation should be removed so as not to spoil the overall quality of the content.
No need to take such drastic measures. Either Ctrl+End or something like
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_VAMPIRE_CASTLE
    width: 60
    length: 60
    height: 10
    shade: 2                                                   # <- 9
    alert: STR_ALERT_VAMPIRE_CASTLE
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on October 25, 2022, 09:12:34 pm
Can someone tell me how high reaction values numbers fly on with rare npcs like Gertrud or Master Wo ?

This is third turn of doing this and not even one agent is capable of landing even a single hit, i had to send someone to get the knockout grenades.
I tried bashing her with fists in case of Gertrude being somehow invincible towards electric damage but alas i had to resort to gas.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 25, 2022, 10:00:14 pm
If I'm reading it right, Gertrude should have 72*1.2 ~= 86 dodge and Lo Wo 95 dodge on Veteran. Worse, they have eyes in the backs of their heads and can't be backstabbed. So your puny 82% chance to hit will never work.

I tend to carry either taser or a dart pistols on most everyone for such cases of ninjas popping up, or someone blocking a lift, or just needing to be stunned ASAP and without worries about missing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: AmanitaVerna on October 27, 2022, 05:26:07 am
The online reference site at xcf.trigramreactor.net says that all the handheld plasma weapons have these properties, but what do they mean exactly?
Code: [Select]
Armor Degradation (Raw Damage) 0.05
Stun Damage 75%
FATAL WOUNDS Damage 12%
Random FATAL WOUNDS? FALSE

The one I'm wondering about the most is the armor degradation figure. Is that multiplied by the weapon power, or by the random damage roll prior to subtracting armor from it, or something else? Does it decrease armor before or after calculating how much damage it does to the target? Either way it doesn't seem like it would have a huge impact from a single shot, but with aliens firing six shots at the same agent in a turn at close range, I'm wondering if armor degradation becomes significant then. If a plasma rifle removes 4 armor per hit, that would be a not insignificant increase in damage for each successive hit.

(I've seen high-level agents get hit several times by a plasma rifle before dying or falling unconscious, and I've seen rookies in power armor take a single shot from a plasma rifle and die instantly, which... I'm not actually sure how much HP my agents have, come to think of it.).

Also what does it mean when a character flashes white? Does that mean the shot hit but the armor blocked the damage? I know red is for receiving one or more fatal wounds but I don't remember flashing white from the original xcom (I don't know if I've forgotten or if it's an OXCE innovation).

P.S. By January 2000, the best armor I've researched besides M.A.G.M.A.'s power armor, is cyber armor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 27, 2022, 10:09:57 am
...what do they mean exactly?
Code: [Select]
Armor Degradation (Raw Damage) 0.05
Stun Damage 75%
FATAL WOUNDS Damage 12%
Random FATAL WOUNDS? FALSE

So, yes, armour gets damaged before it enters damage calculations. And a big bad (or just lucky) plasma weapon can strip quite a bit of armour away since AFAIK resistances do not affect that armour-stripping damage.

And getting hit multiple times by plasma weapons is bad. Maybe not as bad as miniguns, but they do have significantly higher raw damage.

I've seen high-level agents get hit several times by a plasma rifle before dying or falling unconscious, and I've seen rookies in power armor take a single shot from a plasma rifle and die instantly, which...
If you mean MAGMA Power Armor, Plasma is a weakness of it, doing 120% damage. Though a Plasma Rifle still needs to get lucky: on average, it does 80*0.05 = 4 damage to armour first, then 80*1.2 = 96 damage vs 76-96 armour depending on facing. And it's damage distribution is triangular, not uniform, so it's much more likely to be closer to average. Of course, you can still get (un)lucky and do up to 160*1.2 = 192 vs 71-91, which will one-shot even a pretty hardcore veteran.

I'm not actually sure how much HP my agents have, come to think of it.
I'm pretty sure I've seen health bars in the game (yes, the decline was in full swing already back then! :P).

Also what does it mean when a character flashes white? Does that mean the shot hit but the armor blocked the damage?
Pretty much.

I know red is for receiving one or more fatal wounds but I don't remember flashing white from the original xcom (I don't know if I've forgotten or if it's an OXCE innovation).
Technically, it's neither. It's a custom script that's enabled by OXCE. And it doesn't count fatal wounds, it counts 'same-damage hits to kill this enemy' (HTK). 3 or less HTK - bright red, 6 or less - darker red, 7 or more - no red.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Vakrug on October 27, 2022, 01:36:19 pm
Also what does it mean when a character flashes white? Does that mean the shot hit but the armor blocked the damage?
If armor just blocked damage, then there is no special effects. White means damage is blocked, yes, but armor still got damaged (degradation).
Normally, you do 100% of your nominal damage (after random rolls and armour reductions) to health and another 25% as stun damage (that's why enemies pass out from being shot). Plasma weapons do 75% instead, so they basically get a +50% to damage that doesn't kill.
No, 25% means random between 0% and 25%. Same with plasma (from 0% to 75%). Otherwise it would be much easier to capture live aliens and staying alive as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Yankes on October 27, 2022, 03:41:20 pm

So, yes, armour gets damaged before it enters damage calculations. And a big bad (or just lucky) plasma weapon can strip quite a bit of armour away since AFAIK resistances do not affect that armour-stripping damage.

This is false, basic resistances is first thing that affect damage, before any calculation of any thing else.
If XCF do not use scripts to override this behavior then there is no way to " armour-stripping" bypass resistances.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 27, 2022, 05:03:41 pm
Yeah, my bad, forgot about RandomStun. :-[ So more like 12.5% and 37.5% extra stun damage.


As to resistances affecting toArmorPre, I was wrong, again. :( Shows me how not to comment without testing/code diving. What misled me was the nightly reference ("primary damage (Power x RandomType)" and the example using pure rolled damage) and that really should be rewritten to add resistances and possibly whatever else might be lurking in regular, non-scripted damage code. Perhaps work these into the example as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: AmanitaVerna on October 27, 2022, 05:27:55 pm
Wouldn't that make it even more effective against power armor, with the weakness to plasma it has?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 27, 2022, 09:02:53 pm
Indeed. But remember that a) while 120% damage is pretty strong in pushing damage over the armour's threshold, it's not that much more in absolute terms, which is what armour-dissolving works with, and b) most other similar-tier armours (including your other top option, the Cyber Armor) are strong against plasma.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: zx_79 on October 27, 2022, 09:36:50 pm
I`d really appreciate if someone explained what "Radius effectiveness" is. My initial guess was that it replaces the vanilla "10-damage-per-square" dropoff for explosives, but then I saw the "Radius reduction" so I guess that guess was wrong.

As a side note, MHO is that Thanatonautian Manus from recent update is waay OP - when used by Psi-capable Agent, it surpasses even the Plasma Destroyer given Psi damage type and general armor ineffectiveness against it, while being much more accessible to use through research. I`d say it needs about an order of magnitude of nerfing, to do 10% damage to health and 100% to morale.

Also, all three anti-ghost weapons would really benefit if manufacturing them *and* their ammo was possible, either directly or after additional research, using Ectoplasm as a material requirement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 28, 2022, 07:55:02 am
My understanding is that it's a parameter for calculating the radius itself, whereas the 10-damage thing is about the damage within the radius. I don't know the exact calculations and am too lazy to go digging for them right now. :-\
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 28, 2022, 05:52:05 pm
Been really enjoying the latest version of this. Have a good feeling I'm going to have to restart and play again though, I'm getting a lot of -300 points pop up messages. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, looks like I'll have to dig deeper into what I'm doing wrong.

Great ideas and great game play.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on October 28, 2022, 08:10:20 pm
Been really enjoying the latest version of this. Have a good feeling I'm going to have to restart and play again though, I'm getting a lot of -300 points pop up messages. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, looks like I'll have to dig deeper into what I'm doing wrong.

Great ideas and great game play.

Aside from RNG or by sharing tech to MAGMA, event penalties occur for slacking off and making missions expire, or having active story arcs you havent resolved yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 28, 2022, 08:12:10 pm
Aside from RNG or by sharing tech to MAGMA, event penalties occur for slacking off and making missions expire, or having active story arcs you havent resolved yet.

Thank you for the info.
Will the game still end (like X com) with 2 consecutive months of poor ratings ?

I also haven't figured out a way to increase research yet. Probably holding me back. Need more lab space but it looks like only one X com HQ is available per base so far. Maybe I need to create multiple bases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on October 29, 2022, 11:52:53 am
Thank you for the info.
Will the game still end (like X com) with 2 consecutive months of poor ratings ?

I also haven't figured out a way to increase research yet. Probably holding me back. Need more lab space but it looks like only one X com HQ is available per base so far. Maybe I need to create multiple bases.

Yeah, 2 months in a row means game over. You will unlock better labs (Like intel lab), your number of scientist will grow but it will take some time and for some time, it will be quite gradual (Like +5 scientists).
Having more than 1 base will be a dream till you get to promo 3, given you wont be able to finance 2 functional bases without the promo 3 income boost and UFO loot selling.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on October 29, 2022, 01:26:02 pm
I thought Medicine -> Biolab was the meta for fastest research?

Having more than 1 base will be a dream till you get to promo 3, given you wont be able to finance 2 functional bases without the promo 3 income boost and UFO loot selling.
Promo III has an income boost? Nobody told me... :(

And, uh, if you wait until the invasion starts and UFO loot becomes a regular thing before creating more than one base, I'd say you've lost already. You want new bases ASAP, even if they're not full-fledged, since every one of them can have a new lab and lab space is at a premium. Not to mention transport coverage for faster transports, whether directly or via transferring, since your slow-ass two- and four-man teams stop cutting it long before the invasion itself comes along.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: AmanitaVerna on October 29, 2022, 02:47:47 pm
Also you need a backup base in case the aliens get mad at you for shooting down their UFOs, and send a small army to destroy whatever base you have been launching your missions from. (They hit two of my bases in 1999, and I didn't yet have the capability to prevent them from finding my bases, or to repel their attacks)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 31, 2022, 12:47:42 am
Also kudos to the music track. Great work. Who did this ?
I'm a musician and also a mastering engineer. Always willing to help when it comes to audio if ever needed.
The music track in this game is very well done.
It has a vanilla feel to it (the original game) but also totally different. Great work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: krautbernd on October 31, 2022, 01:44:35 pm
Also kudos to the music track. Great work. Who did this ?

Credits are in the readme:

GMGEO3/GMSTORY: Panzerschlag
GMGEO4: Strategist
GMGEO5: Vanilla AGA version of UFO: Enemy Unknown
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Dadimus_Maximus on November 01, 2022, 04:57:31 am
Yeah I usually try to get my second base up by late 1997 or early 1998, just so I can actually reach more missions with the Helicopter or Dragonfly for the several months I'm forced to use them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: superpippo90 on November 01, 2022, 08:28:33 pm
Been really enjoying the latest version of this. Have a good feeling I'm going to have to restart and play again though, I'm getting a lot of -300 points pop up messages. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, looks like I'll have to dig deeper into what I'm doing wrong.

Great ideas and great game play.

It happened to me on my first game with this new version (I had between -2000 and -2500 points for events alone in the first 21 days). I don't know if it's relevant, but I didn't have the latest version of OXCE, if I was you I would check that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 02, 2022, 11:49:03 am
It happened to me on my first game with this new version (I had between -2000 and -2500 points for events alone in the first 21 days). I don't know if it's relevant, but I didn't have the latest version of OXCE, if I was you I would check that.

Great point.
When I tried to install this latest version of x com files, i got the message when starting "I should update OXCE to 7.7". So I did.
The game opened with no further message. After seeing your comment, I checked again and I was using 7.1. Not even sure how that's possible but I'm guessing it is something I did on my end. I just updated again to 7.7 and I'm still getting a lot of those -300 points warning with my saved games.

I'm going to restart a new game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: AmanitaVerna on November 03, 2022, 05:12:58 pm
Given that each month's events are generated and scheduled for the entire month at the very start of the month, it sounds like the problem would have to be that these events are sometimes being generated in large quantities on day 1 before you have had time to do anything, and if you can't get enough points to outweigh them in your first month by doing missions, collecting "artifacts," and doing research, then the council will be very cross with you. (And then your game ends if it happens again in your second month)

I didn't run into this problem when I played through the early game, but I started playing my current game something like a year and a half ago (and I've updated both OXCE and the X-Com Files many times since then), and I know changes have been made to the early game since then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Advancement on November 03, 2022, 06:50:26 pm
Anyone else found music in one of the missions fun? Too bad this mission happened only once...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on November 03, 2022, 08:58:26 pm
For me, it was somewhat funny the first time, and tends to grate now on repeat play-throughs. It's a very hit-or-miss piece, either you love it or hate it. Possibly both. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 05, 2022, 11:14:00 am
I have to say I am very impressed with this game. It is brilliantly thought out. I'm getting hammered though. Sometimes I wonder if there is something wrong with my difficulty level   ;D
But over all I'm really enjoy it a lot.

At first I was turned off by the contrast levels in this game (a lot of darkness). But now I realize it actually adds to the mystique of game. Allowing other features to play a part. Amazing work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Mrvex on November 05, 2022, 01:05:22 pm
I have to say I am very impressed with this game. It is brilliantly thought out. I'm getting hammered though. Sometimes I wonder if there is something wrong with my difficulty level   ;D
But over all I'm really enjoy it a lot.

At first I was turned off by the contrast levels in this game (a lot of darkness). But now I realize it actually adds to the mystique of game. Allowing other features to play a part. Amazing work.

You hopefully do know that there is a nightvision in the game, i originally thought so too, but not being able to see the terrain completely and where you are going or if you are going to accidentally fall down a high ground to some pit made me reconsider this aproach. By default it should be mapped to the SCROLL button, next to printscreen, pressing spacebar also temporially lights up the map as long as you hold it. This is only for you though, the nightvision doesnt apply to your agents, just the commander, they still will have a short detection radius depending on their night vision range.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 06, 2022, 11:47:34 am
You hopefully do know that there is a nightvision in the game, i originally thought so too, but not being able to see the terrain completely and where you are going or if you are going to accidentally fall down a high ground to some pit made me reconsider this aproach. By default it should be mapped to the SCROLL button, next to printscreen, pressing spacebar also temporially lights up the map as long as you hold it. This is only for you though, the nightvision doesnt apply to your agents, just the commander, they still will have a short detection radius depending on their night vision range.

Hey thanks.
For a while I just held the spacebar down. I wasn't sure how sustainable that was going to be for the health of my finger  :-) .
Then I found the Scroll Lock option as you mentioned.
I've also researched flair gun and I believe flood lights.

I've also used the mag lights and flashlights but wasn't sure if there was a 2 hand penalty because right now, I suck lol. I need any advantage I can get.

Grateful for the tip.

Cheers
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Advancement on November 06, 2022, 03:52:08 pm
There is night vision integrated.
As for maglites you can turn it on, then throw it away. In zombie missions surrounding your team with maglited is a good option.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 07, 2022, 03:40:30 am
I'm at the mercy of waiting for promotions to pop up.

My other issue is I have the van and helicopter. But some missions are literally inches away before helicopter runs out of fuel and has to return.
Is my best option to use public transportation ?

Besides this, I love it. It's a fantastic game. I'm in May of 1998.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on November 07, 2022, 05:26:57 pm
Replaying this has always been a pleasure, as usual,  going 3 years. Started a new campaign just this week after a year from previous.  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Advancement on November 07, 2022, 06:56:20 pm
I'm at the mercy of waiting for promotions to pop up.

My other issue is I have the van and helicopter. But some missions are literally inches away before helicopter runs out of fuel and has to return.
Is my best option to use public transportation ?

Besides this, I love it. It's a fantastic game. I'm in May of 1998.
Sometimes I used Land Rover, sometimes helicopter. You need Promotion 3?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 07, 2022, 08:43:05 pm
Sometimes I used Land Rover, sometimes helicopter. You need Promotion 3?

Is it possible to tell me how to get promotions?  I'm not asking for everything here, just small bit of advice. I've been researching but maybe I missed something.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Advancement on November 07, 2022, 09:12:53 pm
Is it possible to tell me how to get promotions?  I'm not asking for everything here, just small bit of advice. I've been researching but maybe I missed something.
Honestly I do not remember. Try pressing Q while in geoscape, then search for "promotion".

It says for 3 you need to finish with all cults, cyberweb, into the dark and some deep ones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on November 07, 2022, 09:22:34 pm
No, no.

It's being in a position to kill one cult and one of the rest (Alien Origins, Into the Dark, Deep One Communities or Cyberweb Portals). Gillmen are probably easiest.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: BMANH on November 07, 2022, 11:49:14 pm
Is it possible to tell me how to get promotions?  I'm not asking for everything here, just small bit of advice. I've been researching but maybe I missed something.

For the first one, get acquainted with the cults and strange animals. For the second, get the whole gang together. The General Strategy reports have good clues imo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 08, 2022, 06:05:55 pm
As a side note, MHO is that Thanatonautian Manus from recent update is waay OP - when used by Psi-capable Agent, it surpasses even the Plasma Destroyer given Psi damage type and general armor ineffectiveness against it, while being much more accessible to use through research. I`d say it needs about an order of magnitude of nerfing, to do 10% damage to health and 100% to morale.

Won't it just make it even better? :) Captures instead of kills!
I'm comparing it with the Flame Glove and it's not that great... I need more testing...

Also, all three anti-ghost weapons would really benefit if manufacturing them *and* their ammo was possible, either directly or after additional research, using Ectoplasm as a material requirement.

We have some plans in this regard. :)

Also kudos to the music track. Great work. Who did this ?
I'm a musician and also a mastering engineer. Always willing to help when it comes to audio if ever needed.
The music track in this game is very well done.
It has a vanilla feel to it (the original game) but also totally different. Great work.

I don't know all the sources, but there's "MUSIC" a section in the readme - hopefully it can give you enough info. If something's missing or needs extra info, drop me a PM (I check them more often than threads).

And thanks for all the kind words! :)

You hopefully do know that there is a nightvision in the game, i originally thought so too, but not being able to see the terrain completely and where you are going or if you are going to accidentally fall down a high ground to some pit made me reconsider this aproach. By default it should be mapped to the SCROLL button, next to printscreen, pressing spacebar also temporially lights up the map as long as you hold it. This is only for you though, the nightvision doesnt apply to your agents, just the commander, they still will have a short detection radius depending on their night vision range.

This. But also there's another trick: Ctrl+End. It switches between normal vision, half-light and full light.
Bear in mind that it only aftects display, not mechanics! (setting half or full light does'nt actually make units see better)
I personally prefer using half-light over NV, but it's a matter of taste.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Juku121 on November 08, 2022, 06:38:39 pm
I personally prefer using half-light over NV, but it's a matter of taste.
Yeah, I really have some beef with LPers inflicting night vision on their viewers all the time. >:(

At least Starving Poet switched to Ctrl+End midway back when he played XCF.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 09, 2022, 02:37:22 am
Met up the ninjas today  :P That is awesome.

I'm guessing you have to be right next to these guys or you wont even see them, they obliterated like 3 of my guys in one turn. I couldn't even see them, to make matter worse, they were standing on black top, so they blended right in. Just amazed at the depth of this X files game. It is really well done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.6: Paranormal Activity
Post by: zx_79 on November 09, 2022, 11:06:45 am
Won't it just make it even better? :) Captures instead of kills!
I'm comparing it with the Flame Glove and it's not that great... I need more testing...

Ohh, but the Flame Glove is *awesome*! That`s your Plasma Rifle worth of firepower, sans the Elerium, batteries, extreme research times and requirements, not even live alien capture needed or Psi Skill required to use it - just any encounter with Exalt (Psiclone > Alien Engineering), one Black Lotus Outpost to take the thing off the Witch, plus some luck with agents PST rolls - and even before Promo II there`s a weapon to just BEGONE almost anything from the field. Only significant drawback is that it often leaves no corpse.

In fact, Flame Gloves was what tempted me to execute my first MiB ambush on Crop Circles mission, even though I suspect the Enforcers cheat on night vision somewhat. With time, I opted not to use these "pre-psionic" weapons as they make the fights too easy.

Btw, is there some kind of comprehensive summary/explanation of all wiki listed parameters? Some I did figure out, but others like aforementioned "Radius Effectiveness" are elusive. That would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 09, 2022, 12:03:12 pm
Ohh, but the Flame Glove is *awesome*! That`s your Plasma Rifle worth of firepower, sans the Elerium, batteries, extreme research times and requirements, not even live alien capture needed or Psi Skill required to use it - just any encounter with Exalt (Psiclone > Alien Engineering), one Black Lotus Outpost to take the thing off the Witch, plus some luck with agents PST rolls - and even before Promo II there`s a weapon to just BEGONE almost anything from the field. Only significant drawback is that it often leaves no corpse.

In fact, Flame Gloves was what tempted me to execute my first MiB ambush on Crop Circles mission, even though I suspect the Enforcers cheat on night vision somewhat. With time, I opted not to use these "pre-psionic" weapons as they make the fights too easy.

OK, fair point. :) For me they're kind of impractical, but it's good that there are other perspectives.

Btw, is there some kind of comprehensive summary/explanation of all wiki listed parameters? Some I did figure out, but others like aforementioned "Radius Effectiveness" are elusive. That would be much appreciated.

I don't think so, the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) is your best bet.

EDIT:
2.7 has been released!

- New weapons: Chemthrower (with two ammo types), Chryssalid Gas Grenade.
- New units: Reclamation of Aether Initiate (2 genders), Reclamation of Aether Journeyman (2 genders) (both mostly by CosmicAfro).
- New missions: The Sound of Graves, Impossible Internet Intelligence, Televised Ghost Hunting (all mostly by CosmicAfro).
- New commendation: Pest Controller.
- New Postindustrial maps (mostly by Dioxine).
- 7 new Catacomb maps and terrain (by Dioxine).
- 4 new Port map variants (by Thallori).
- 1 new Sewers map (by Dioxine).
- Desert stones are yellow.
- Better Moon minimap (SCANGs by Kato).
- Added Security Camera description.
- New lore articles.
- Hybrid Control Circuitry bigob (by Brain_322).
- Spirit Cultists have worse Psi Strength.
- Flamethrowers give Technician commendations.
- Commando reinforcements in manors never come from the south.
- Children of Aether are more grey.
- Night-Ops and MiB Enforcer graphics improved (by Dioxine).
- Fixed an issue with Katapeltes Spiritus clips.
- Fixed missing commendations.
- Fixed an issue with Polar terrain where X-Com craft may be placed on water.
- Terror Ship map fixes.
- Fixed Trinidad position.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Slow on November 10, 2022, 02:38:31 pm
Will save file from 2.6 work in 2.7?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Advancement on November 10, 2022, 05:16:54 pm
- Commando reinforcements in manors never come from the south.
That's a great change!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on November 10, 2022, 05:20:26 pm
That's a great change!
I would like to know where the south is.))
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 10, 2022, 06:07:27 pm
2.7b has been released.

There was a harmless, but unsightly bug where you could research Salt Pile without having it.
If you don't want to download the whole mod, you can simply replace the attached file.

Will save file from 2.6 work in 2.7?

Yes!

I would like to know where the south is.))

Same as the gate. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on November 10, 2022, 09:21:51 pm
Hell ya 2.7 what a perfect timing to have come out still in my early new campaign!  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on November 10, 2022, 09:31:44 pm
Also if anyone could answer or share their POV, is there any benefit or detriment monthly to unlocking extra missions/branches through research before completing previous? Such as
unlocking Hybrids, Syndicates, Dagon, etc before completing/eliminating the cults.

Mainly wondering if their impact mission pop up RNG monthly or not by unlocking them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 10, 2022, 11:04:52 pm
I had a bug but forgot to keep the save file. My bad.

I know it wont help but it was in the sand dunes map (desert with hills).
One of my guys fell into the sand hill and couldn't move (besides rotation was still achievable).

Besides that, I haven't seen hardly any bugs in this newest version. It's incredible. Loving it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mrvex on November 11, 2022, 02:31:03 pm
Also if anyone could answer or share their POV, is there any benefit or detriment monthly to unlocking extra missions/branches through research before completing previous? Such as
unlocking Hybrids, Syndicates, Dagon, etc before completing/eliminating the cults.

Mainly wondering if their impact mission pop up RNG monthly or not by unlocking them.

Its a both sided thing, usually opening up more arcs means more missions you have to attend to (+ more negative events) and usually, some arcs require alot more effort and tech to finish than others.
But on other side its simply more oportunities for score, loot and XP.

Though i wouldnt bother fighting against enemies beyond the cults till i atleast got the heavy tactical suit going (Promotion 3) and people and bases ready to handle more missions aorund the globe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: zx_79 on November 12, 2022, 06:46:08 pm

I don't think so, the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) is your best bet.


That actually is exactly what I was asking for, hanks for pointing me to it!

Got myself the Natasha`s Custom VSS, and there appears to be a discrepancy in its damage listed in game and on the Wiki page. Latter says 0.36*Firing Acc minus 20, while former subtracts 20 from total. Is that an overlook or intentional? [or am I just reading the wiki formula wrong] To me, the Wiki calculation seems more plausible, since the regular VSS also has 20 base damage before reactions bonus.

[edit] Also found out that USO Ambush mission doesn`t count towards Aquanaut commendation, though it apparently should
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: krautbernd on November 12, 2022, 11:56:18 pm
Got myself the Natasha`s Custom VSS, and there appears to be a discrepancy in its damage listed in game and on the Wiki page. Latter says 0.36*Firing Acc minus 20, while former subtracts 20 from total. Is that an overlook or intentional? [or am I just reading the wiki formula wrong] To me, the Wiki calculation seems more plausible, since the regular VSS also has 20 base damage before reactions bonus.
Not sure what your question here is? The in-game information directly represents the item values, and the damage bonus for the the rifle and the clip haven't changed since (at least) 1.4. Why should the wiki information be "more plausible"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on November 13, 2022, 02:41:02 am
The custom VSS has been minus 20 because it's already powerful with the stats behind it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: zx_79 on November 13, 2022, 09:14:42 am
Not sure what your question here is? [...] Why should the wiki information be "more plausible"?

I am unable to elaborate this without some tedious boreness, please confirm if you actually wish to hear it - or just nevermind :)

[edit] how does one re-bind the "examine unit" function from the middle mouse button, if possible, that is?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mathel on November 13, 2022, 09:56:05 am
Custom VSS Clip, the ammo for Natasha's Custom VSS has the following damage.

Code: [Select]
    power: 20
    damageBonus:
      reactions: 0.4
      firing: 0.36
      flatHundred: -0.20

Which translates to 20+0.4*Reactions+0.36*Firing Accuracy-20= 0+0.4*REA+0.36*ACC. The Wiki is correct.

I have no idea why Solarius decided to make it do 20 damage and then negate it rather than start with 0, nor why it has 0 base damage to begin with, but 0 base damage it has.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Yankes on November 13, 2022, 01:27:13 pm
Because some screen do not calculate bonuses, and instead of 0 you have "average" value 20
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on November 16, 2022, 08:58:25 pm
Hello!

I'm having some trouble with the tech tree viewer and I'm not sure what I have to do to proceed.
I want to research Alien Engineering and it looks to me as if I have all the prerequisites (marked in purple). Yet Alien Engineering is not available for research. Does anyone know what I'm missing?

(https://i.imgur.com/gZCeHsq.png)

Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Meridian on November 16, 2022, 10:07:20 pm
You are likely missing a building providing the "Std. Lab" service.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on November 16, 2022, 10:13:25 pm
Do you know what that refers to? I don't find anything like that in the tech tree. Is it the Science Laboratory that also exists in vanilla?
I could build a Bio Lab, but it says the research can also be performed when the HQ is present, so I guess it's not that one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Meridian on November 16, 2022, 10:18:41 pm
Don't know, someone more savvy in this mod will need to answer.

But uploading your saved game might be a good idea, in case my initial assumption is incorrect.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 16, 2022, 10:19:20 pm
It's a modified version of the usual Science Laboratory that becomes available after Promo II. Your research workhorse for much of the early-mid game.

Note that there are a bunch of other 'laboratories' in the mod, several of which are also called 'X Laboratory', and none of which provide that exact requirement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on November 16, 2022, 10:37:52 pm
Quote
It's a modified version of the usual Science Laboratory that becomes available after Promo II. Your research workhorse for much of the early-mid game.

Note that there are a bunch of other 'laboratories' in the mod, several of which are also called 'X Laboratory', and none of which provide that exact requirement.

Ahh gotcha, it looks like I'm definitely missing that one then. I currently only have the Bio-Lab and the HQ for science.

I've seen the other labs in the techtree but it's not clear to me yet what their purpose is. But I guess I'll find out. Thanks for your answers.

Also I noticed that smoke grenades extinguish environmental fires, but not burning people. Are there any alternative to save burning people other than the TU costly fire extinguisher?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 16, 2022, 11:08:46 pm
Other labs unlock more advanced research topics.

There are some other fire extinguishers which require some effort to access:
Medical drones and extinguisher ammo for chemoguns/pistols.

Of course, the best way to survive being on fire is to be in an armour that's good enough against incendiary damage that you don't get set on fire in the first place. :P Hazmat and its cousins do that, but with drawbacks. After that, it's mostly some form of power armour, which takes a while to become available.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on November 17, 2022, 11:17:10 am
Okay thanks, I'll lookout for those drones and chemoguns. The power armor is likely too far away. Even Personal Armor feels like it's incredibly far away still due to the promotion 3 requirements.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on November 18, 2022, 07:37:24 am


It seems to me that it would be great to realize the ability to select items not only from one cell, but from a 3 *3 square with an agent in the center. There are a lot of things on the locations right on the scenery, shelves, tables. But it is impossible to take them without destroying the block. And because blocks often explode, or sometimes a thing is destroyed instead of destroying a block, then such a simple action as picking up an object turns out to be impossible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: AmanitaVerna on November 18, 2022, 09:44:24 am
I'm going to bet that's not something that could be done by a mod, and that such a feature would require changes to OXCE itself instead.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Kitfox88 on November 18, 2022, 08:24:22 pm
Is it possible to apply the TFTD style damage mod to X-Com Files, or will that cause an issue or severely impact balance? I prefer the more reliable damage over chance miracles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 18, 2022, 09:13:09 pm
Not really, because XCF applies heavily customised damage randomisation to entire groups of weapons, one item at a time. So there is no single unified damage model anymore (not that there ever was but, you know, even less now :) ).

Technically, you could revert that - I have done something like it myself - but it would take several hours of drudgery and will require you to judge which weapon to change to what model of RNG, for dozens if not a few hundred entries.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Kitfox88 on November 18, 2022, 09:15:13 pm
Drat. It's just so discouraging when I get a hit and it does diddly squat, but I'll live with it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 18, 2022, 09:18:34 pm
The answer to your woes is sniper rifles. Sniper rifles are the Fireball of XCF. All problems can be solved by Fireball sniper rifles. 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 22, 2022, 12:57:28 pm
(https://media.tenor.com/dUOPCOIdGtEAAAAC/thanos-reality-is-often-disappointing.gif)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: shaigan on November 23, 2022, 01:54:14 pm
What is the target version for this mod?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 23, 2022, 03:04:22 pm
What is the target version for this mod?

You mean the OXCE version?
If yes, 7.7 or later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 26, 2022, 09:20:46 pm
I thought of a really cool story line for this game. i hope I'm not too out of line by suggesting it.
But would be super interesting if some of your soldiers (that were previously killed by cults/aliens) could be turned into zombies (maybe a super hard to kill boss) later in the game.
Like that one soldier you hated losing, his body was recovered by the aliens and fighting you in later missions.

Just a thought. Hope everyone is having a great day.
Still loving this game a lot. Find it really well thought out (the story line).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mrvex on November 27, 2022, 12:48:05 pm
I thought of a really cool story line for this game. i hope I'm not too out of line by suggesting it.
But would be super interesting if some of your soldiers (that were previously killed by cults/aliens) could be turned into zombies (maybe a super hard to kill boss) later in the game.
Like that one soldier you hated losing, his body was recovered by the aliens and fighting you in later missions.

Just a thought. Hope everyone is having a great day.
Still loving this game a lot. Find it really well thought out (the story line).

Impossible because XCOM already retrieves bodies to....
You can revive dead soldiers via a tech called Proteanism, yes, you can bring them back from the dead as long as their death actually left a corpse behind, so not turned in to ash by plasma weapons or being turned in to monster via Chryssalid incubation or infestor bite
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 29, 2022, 11:21:19 am
Yeah, I can't think of a way to do something like this, sorry.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Dreams_Of_Cheese on November 29, 2022, 07:29:12 pm
Would you consider creating shield variants for later armor tiers than the armored/alloy vest? I was recently thinking about how one handed weapons fall out of usefulness outside of covert missions and a couple other edge circumstances. I think it would be fun to be able to run breacher units past 1999, particularly once personal armor becomes relevant.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: AmanitaVerna on November 29, 2022, 10:31:54 pm
I still give four or so of my agents one-handed weapons with mag-lites on night missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 30, 2022, 12:10:40 am
Didn't you get the flashlight memo? :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Marrik on November 30, 2022, 12:18:22 am
It would be kind of neat if we could get M203 grenade launcher attachments for M16s
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: AmanitaVerna on November 30, 2022, 07:01:35 am
Didn't you get the flashlight memo? :P

Yes, but then I checked their stats and saw that the cheap flashlights also had less range. It's not like I can't afford to buy my agents the good flashlights.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 30, 2022, 08:16:03 am
But the point was that you're wasting taxpayer money! :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 30, 2022, 01:56:02 pm
Would you consider creating shield variants for later armor tiers than the armored/alloy vest? I was recently thinking about how one handed weapons fall out of usefulness outside of covert missions and a couple other edge circumstances. I think it would be fun to be able to run breacher units past 1999, particularly once personal armor becomes relevant.

Possibly, I just want to avoid the clutter. Any armour can potentially have a shield version...

Still, I'd like to make at least one late game breaching armour.

It would be kind of neat if we could get M203 grenade launcher attachments for M16s

Too complex. I could do it the same way as with the OICW, but that would mean losing at least one firing mode. Not worth the hassle and confusion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on November 30, 2022, 02:14:05 pm
Possibly, I just want to avoid the clutter. Any armour can potentially have a shield version...
One answer to these shield/armor variant overload problems would be to make Xenonauts-style shields which are basically separate, directional shield generators. XCF already has shields (of the psychic variety), directional shield scripts inherited from Piratez and X-Chronicles reportedly has even shield HP a display. Getting the three combined and making shields independent of armour would be a large step forward, IMO.

There's also the issue of making art for some sort of advanced alien alloy shield, but I imagine that's a lesser obstacle than merging all these scripts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on November 30, 2022, 04:40:33 pm
One answer to these shield/armor variant overload problems would be to make Xenonauts-style shields which are basically separate, directional shield generators.

Yes, I am aware, although I haven't really used them. I can only assume they work.

If someone writes such a script, I will consider adding such an item (and removing the current armours with shields).

There's also the issue of making art for some sort of advanced alien alloy shield, but I imagine that's a lesser obstacle than merging all these scripts.

Yeah, I can do that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mrvex on December 01, 2022, 01:34:34 pm
The XCOM file arsenal addition submod has standalone shields that can be equiped with any armor as secondary weapon, comes with the guard ability to activate it for it to soak damage.
Here is the assault shield as example
(https://i.imgur.com/Miu40s7.png)

Maybe ask him if you can borrow it ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 01, 2022, 10:40:05 pm
If someone writes such a script, I will consider adding such an item (and removing the current armours with shields).
Okay, I gave it a try and made a hack to use the existing energy shield script for physical shields.

Attached are my changes: items_XCOMFILES.rul only lists what needs to be modified from a regular shield; scripts_XCOMFILES.rul has all the affected script parts. Search for 'Juku121' to find the changes, at the end of a line if I did something to it, and as markers at the beginning and end of code blocks for new code. If you need a full script file, tell me what you want changed (which you likely do because there are design choices involved) and I can make one.

How it works: pretty close to how Xenonauts did it. Shields have X amount of 'HP', damage first reduces that HP and then does its usual thing if there's anything left over. HP is displayed as ammo, which has the interesting side effects of consuming 1 HP per shield bash (edit2: temporarily, until the next time your shield is hit, then it resets) and destroying the shield if you try to bash with a broken shield. I imagine you also lose damaged shields proportional to how much damage they've taken, like the disposable guns in Piratez, but didn't test this.

Right now, these physical shields are hardcoded to type 4 (75% kinetic and concussive damage, 50% melee damage; psi, special and smoke damage bypass shields), only block hits to the front and the shield hand side, and flash the agent a (configurable) grey on hit. They can also be dual-wielded for super-defensive goodness. Yes, a frontal hit needs to go through both shields. 8)


If 8mono wants to weigh in, all the better. But I figure the 'raise shield' mechanic and temporary armour derived from both armour and shield are a bit less intuitive.


Piratez also has physical shields completely blocking melee damage, and XCHR has a combination of the two, but I think both are a bit convoluted. YMMV.


Edit2: But if you really want the priming, accuracy penalties, damage reduction per shot limited to not just remaining HP but an armour value (that's what Arsenal Additions amounts to) and/or the 'shield dodge' mechanic, I imagine I can take a look at these, too.


Edit: As an aside, I found these lines in the scripts file:
Code: [Select]
                  # If it's special, choking, heat, or cold, just skip the rest
                  if or eq damaging_type 0 eq damaging_type 9 eq damaging_type 10 eq damaging_type 11;
But damage types 10 and 11 are EMP and electrical here. Maybe some conflicts with Piratez have crept in, or perhas it's intended and I'm just imagining things.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Fotos on December 04, 2022, 01:34:44 pm
YouTube bans the video because of the track "Strategist
kensuke ushio" can the author replace it?  the in-game file is called GMGEO4 \XComFiles\SOUND
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 04, 2022, 04:05:37 pm
can the author replace it?
Unlikely. You are not the first nor even the third to have this problem, this is not the only copyrighted track (though others seem to slip by more easily) and Solarius has pretty much no incentive to sabotage his own work so some people have an easier time streaming while the vast majority of players get nothing at best and a reduced experience at worst.

This (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5819.0.html) might be of some help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 04, 2022, 04:12:11 pm
Why has mib activity completely stopped? Why are there no more Chthonite missions? Is it forever, or can they appear again? I have not completed these storylines.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 04, 2022, 04:52:09 pm
AFAIK, MiB storyline currently has no end. Their temporary disappearance is most likely due to the same reliance on small-percentage RNG as pretty much anything else.

If by 'Chthonite missions' you mean the minibases, then IDK. These ought to spawn infinitely, once per four months on average. If you mean the other subterranean missions (Reptoids, Antmen, Spiders, etc), then that depends on how far along that story arc you are.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: krautbernd on December 04, 2022, 09:00:54 pm
YouTube bans the video because of the track "Strategist
kensuke ushio" can the author replace it?  the in-game file is called GMGEO4 \XComFiles\SOUND

Why not replace it yourself? I quite like the track. Why should the mod cater to streamers instead of actual gamers?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 09, 2022, 06:14:46 pm
About music: I prefer to leave it to the modders' choice. It's easy to replace the file.

I've never considered that the mod would have any appearance on YT - frankly, I have never watched LPs before OpenXCom - and I'm not really interested in that. To me, a mod is something people download from weird sites and tinker with on their HDDs... :)

Okay, I gave it a try and made a hack to use the existing energy shield script for physical shields.

Attached are my changes: items_XCOMFILES.rul only lists what needs to be modified from a regular shield; scripts_XCOMFILES.rul has all the affected script parts. Search for 'Juku121' to find the changes, at the end of a line if I did something to it, and as markers at the beginning and end of code blocks for new code. If you need a full script file, tell me what you want changed (which you likely do because there are design choices involved) and I can make one.

How it works: pretty close to how Xenonauts did it. Shields have X amount of 'HP', damage first reduces that HP and then does its usual thing if there's anything left over. HP is displayed as ammo, which has the interesting side effects of consuming 1 HP per shield bash (edit2: temporarily, until the next time your shield is hit, then it resets) and destroying the shield if you try to bash with a broken shield. I imagine you also lose damaged shields proportional to how much damage they've taken, like the disposable guns in Piratez, but didn't test this.

First of all, thanks for the input. I will check when I get the chance.
HP on shields feel a bit more engineered than what I had in mind, but I'm not saying no! :)

Why has mib activity completely stopped? Why are there no more Chthonite missions? Is it forever, or can they appear again? I have not completed these storylines.

These missions never disappear. Including Chtonite minibases. (I think.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 10, 2022, 01:20:02 am
Early on in my game I wasn't experienced enough to catch the Black Lotus avatar lady alive. I just pelted her with bullets. I had 2 missions like this.
Will i ever get a chance to capture her again ? What should I be looking for ? Black lotus HQ ?
Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 10, 2022, 01:55:17 am
Black Lotus HQ, forward bases (not manors, though) and the Root of All Evil aka the jungle shrine (a single-time mission).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 10, 2022, 07:26:53 am
Early on in my game I wasn't experienced enough to catch the Black Lotus avatar lady alive. I just pelted her with bullets. I had 2 missions like this.
Will i ever get a chance to capture her again ? What should I be looking for ? Black lotus HQ ?
Thanks.
The game assumes 100 times more flexibility than the original xcom. Capturing a naked woman is quite simple for two reasons. She doesn't bleed. It is perfectly shot with stun damage. Even a few hits with rubber shotgun bullets can easily calm her down.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 10, 2022, 01:53:57 pm
The game assumes 100 times more flexibility than the original xcom. Capturing a naked woman is quite simple for two reasons. She doesn't bleed. It is perfectly shot with stun damage. Even a few hits with rubber shotgun bullets can easily calm her down.

I totally agree "Now". But a couple weeks ago, I did not. Hoping something will spawn again.
I think that is really the gest of this game. it's all about taking advantages of the opportunities you are given and if not experienced enough to know when an opportunity presents itself, your screwed..

Thank you (and Juku) for the replies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 12, 2022, 02:06:04 pm
...
In the base of the game, some weapons have a modifier line for the effectiveness of the influence of armor, and some weapons simply do not have this line, but judging by practice, often the absence of this line does not mean that the modifier is equal to 1.

Is my assumption correct that when the modifier string is missing, it means that the modifier is not just a number, but a formula of variables? For example, I suspect that the effectiveness of piercing armor with a titanium sword depends on the strength number of the agent.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: krautbernd on December 12, 2022, 04:52:22 pm
In the base of the game, some weapons have a modifier line for the effectiveness of the influence of armor, and some weapons simply do not have this line, but judging by practice, often the absence of this line does not mean that the modifier is equal to 1.

Is my assumption correct that when the modifier string is missing, it means that the modifier is not just a number, but a formula of variables? For example, I suspect that the effectiveness of piercing armor with a titanium sword depends on the strength number of the agent.

Can you list an example of what you're referring to here? Because the alloy sword has these entries regarding damage:

Code: [Select]
    power: 50
    damageType: 7
    damageBonus:
      strength: 0.6
      melee: 0.2
    damageAlter:
      ToTile: 0.3

Which is (of course) identical to what's listed in-game. No additional armor piercing, unless the item implements additional scripts which might modify damage behaviour. Why are you "suspect[ing] that the effectiveness of piercing armor with a titanium sword depends on the strength number of the agent"? What "effectiveness" are you talking about? What "number of variables"?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 12, 2022, 05:52:57 pm
For example, I suspect that the effectiveness of piercing armor with a titanium sword depends on the strength number of the agent.
Well, you're right, but that's because regular damage also pierces armour and the alloy sword scales off strength.

As krautbernd said, there is no special extra armour effectiveness multiplier for alloy swords, like many other slashing weapons have.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 12, 2022, 06:16:07 pm
Well, you're right, but that's because regular damage also pierces armour and the alloy sword scales off strength.

As krautbernd said, there is no special extra armour effectiveness multiplier for alloy swords, like many other slashing weapons have.
Is this accurate information, or do you just think that you are right?

Can you list an example of what you're referring to here? Because the alloy sword has these entries regarding damage:

Code: [Select]
    power: 50
    damageType: 7
    damageBonus:
      strength: 0.6
      melee: 0.2
    damageAlter:
      ToTile: 0.3

Which is (of course) identical to what's listed in-game. No additional armor piercing, unless the item implements additional scripts which might modify damage behaviour. Why are you "suspect[ing] that the effectiveness of piercing armor with a titanium sword depends on the strength number of the agent"? What "effectiveness" are you talking about? What "number of variables"?

I am guided only by the in-game description, where it is written for a titanium sword that it penetrates heavy armor better than other weapons. Especially for fighters with a high strength index.

The plasma sword has a similar description. It also says that it passes through armor like through water. And it also lacks the armor efficiency string.

And finally. I'm not saying anything specifically. I'm just asking about my suspicions. Even in my first playthrough, I was very surprised how easily the tritanium sword breaks through the mib storm trooper. Most often with a single hit. Although in terms of damage and armor there is 50-50 whether damage will be done at all.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: AmanitaVerna on December 12, 2022, 07:18:47 pm
Is this accurate information, or do you just think that you are right?

I am guided only by the in-game description, where it is written for a titanium sword that it penetrates heavy armor better than other weapons. Especially for fighters with a high strength index.

The formula for power and accuracy for each weapon is listed right on the wiki, derived from modifiers that you can see in the detailed information view in-game. The effect you think is there is because the tritanium sword's power is 50 + 0.6 * STRENGTH + 0.2 * MELEE ACCURACY.
Damage is (damage roll(power) * the target's damage modifier for that damage type - the target's armor * armor effectiveness).
Armor effectiveness for the tritanium sword is just 100%.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: krautbernd on December 12, 2022, 07:30:27 pm
I am guided only by the in-game description, where it is written for a titanium sword that it penetrates heavy armor better than other weapons. Especially for fighters with a high strength index.

Nothing in-game states that the sword "penetrates heavy armor better than other weapons", nor does the weapon have any inherent armor piercing qualities.

The fluff states that it "can take down even heavily armored foes". But that is true of any weapon able to dish out high damage.

Neither the article itself states that the sword has any armor piercing capabilities, nor does the weapon actually have any such capabilities.

The plasma sword has a similar description.

Apart from the fact that the descriptions are pretty much meaningless since they don't define what the weapon is actually capable of, let's compare these "similar" descriptions and what the weapons actually do:

Quote from: Alloy Sword
"This specially crafted sword is a formidable close combat weapon, utilizing the operative's physical strength to take down even heavily armored foes."

Quote from: Plasma Sword
"This lethal implement of a sword combines a large blade, a micron thick at the edge, a plasma emitter, and an electromagnet. When activated, hot plasma floods the EM field surrounding the blade, superheating it to the point where its touch would make titanium run like water."

The first description states that the sword can take down heavily armored foes. It does does not state that it can pierce armor. The seond descirtion states that it can damage armor. It does not state that it is armor piercing.

I already listed the damage defintions of the alloy sword and noted that it does not have any armor piercing capabilites - nor does the description imply any.

These are the relevant lines from the definition for the plasma sword:

Code: [Select]
    power: 65
    damageType: 5
    damageBonus:
      strength: 0.3
      melee: 0.3
    damageAlter:
      IgnoreOverKill: false
      ToArmorPre: 0.05
      ToStun: 0.75
      RandomWound: false
      ToWound: 0.12
      FireThreshold: 25.0
      ToTile: 1.25

Note the line reading "ToArmorPre" and look up the entry in the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)).

This applies direct armor damage. Note that this is not "armor piercing" either, since it only applies damage to armor, not to the units health. This ability to "shred" armor is what the description references when it states it "would make titanium run like water".

I'm just asking about my suspicions. Even in my first playthrough, I was very surprised how easily the tritanium sword breaks through the mib storm trooper. Most often with a single hit. Although in terms of damage and armor there is 50-50 whether damage will be done at all.

Why would this be 50-50? Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion and would you mind doing the damage calcuations for training and max stat caps (for normal soldiers) based on front, side and back armor values for the MIB stormtrooper armor?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mathel on December 12, 2022, 08:20:59 pm
.308 rifle has armor piercing capabilities. So do warp weapons.

From Warp Rifle Clip
Code: [Select]
power:34
damageAlter:
 IgnoreOverKill:false
 ArmorEffectiveness:0.35
 ToArmor:0
34 Power
Can vaporize targets
Ignores 65% of target armor
0% of final damage damages armor

But you are right that the Tritanium Sword does not have such capabilities.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 12, 2022, 08:33:11 pm
Thank you all for your opinion. You write logical arguments. You're probably right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: krautbernd on December 12, 2022, 09:08:03 pm
Thank you all for your opinion. You write logical arguments. You're probably right.

I'm just asking about my suspicions. Even in my first playthrough, I was very surprised how easily the tritanium sword breaks through the mib storm trooper. Most often with a single hit. Although in terms of damage and armor there is 50-50 whether damage will be done at all.

I still would like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 12, 2022, 09:28:20 pm
The alloy sword does lack the armour penetration penalty most low-tech swords have. You can look at it as a kind of relative penetration ability.

But everyone's already explained how things are. A lot of your observations are down to the fact that weapon damage is rather random and thus can easily lead to strange conjectures when applied to a small sample.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 12, 2022, 09:58:53 pm
I still would like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

What is unclear? My fighters have a damage with a titanium sword of about 0-200. Frontal armor shock armor 95, if I remember correctly. It also seems that shock armor has 10% resistance to cuts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: krautbernd on December 13, 2022, 02:24:30 am
What is unclear? My fighters have a damage with a titanium sword of about 0-200. Frontal armor shock armor 95, if I remember correctly. It also seems that shock armor has 10% resistance to cuts.

Why are you talking about shock armor when you're referring to MIB stormtroopers?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 13, 2022, 04:16:07 am
Anyone know what mission spawns a Tritium Matrix?
Tritium is the stuff that powers things glowing in the dark, Tritanium is the metal/alloy them aliens stole from the Federation. Or maybe the Borg? :P

Haven't really played post-2.5, but from limited testing, at least the Lunar Colony and MiB bases.

Currently I'm being gated because I don't have alloys to make anything.
I suppose that was the idea, to remove easy access to alloy manufacturing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 13, 2022, 05:00:17 am
Why are you talking about shock armor when you're referring to MIB stormtroopers?
Yes, this is a mistake. Here half of the fault is my stupidity, and the other half is the language barrier. I meant the dudes in heavy fallout armor, not the flying ones.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 13, 2022, 04:28:34 pm
Tritium is the stuff that powers things glowing in the dark, Tritanium is the metal/alloy them aliens stole from the Federation. Or maybe the Borg? :P

Directly? From Master of Orion. 8)
(I know it's not them who came up with this, but I don't know if it was star Trek or something even earlier.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: AmanitaVerna on December 13, 2022, 10:48:54 pm
Just wait until the aliens start fielding zortrium spaceships and actually think to put their gravity-conducting circuitry on the inside of their ships. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 14, 2022, 09:55:14 am
Just wait until the aliens start fielding zortrium spaceships and actually think to put their gravity-conducting circuitry on the inside of their ships. :P

Cydonians don't have Zortrium. They aren't as advanced as they want us to believe. ;)
As a curiousity, Piratez have Zortrium. But it's too rare make whole ships out of it, or even body armours.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: SBBurzmali on December 15, 2022, 02:32:31 pm
I will say that the game's ending is very drawn out, probably excessively so. From what I can tell, I have one mission left in the Apocalypse folks, one or two in the undead chain and three or four left on the aliens. With the average rate of story creation, I'm looking at over a year of just downing UFOs and waiting as the rest of the planet is pacified.

I think the issue is that early chains made it clear that advancing too many chains too quickly leaves you strained to handle the dozen or more high level missions that spawn each month, but if you are too selective with research, you end up in a scenario where the end game drags on forever.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 15, 2022, 05:41:16 pm
I know! Work's been slow, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 18, 2022, 06:59:28 pm
Kults are throwing grenades in turn 1 despite the vanilla difficulty file saying turnAIUseGrenade: 3
Does anyone know whether the mod overwrites this or why this could happen?

Also there are frequent occurences of UFOs spawning and try to intercept my craft. If the craft is too slow it's guaranteed destruction. Does anyone know how to deal with those?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 19, 2022, 04:52:02 am
Kults are throwing grenades in turn 1 despite the vanilla difficulty file saying turnAIUseGrenade: 3
Does anyone know whether the mod overwrites this or why this could happen?

Also there are frequent occurences of UFOs spawning and try to intercept my craft. If the craft is too slow it's guaranteed destruction. Does anyone know how to deal with those?
Oh, if you only knew how many of my carriers were destroyed in 5 years of Ironman... This is a game moment. The enemies are not whipping boys, they also resist. If you want this not to happen, look for enemy bases with interceptors every new month.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: The Martian on December 19, 2022, 06:26:30 am
Kults are throwing grenades in turn 1 despite the vanilla difficulty file saying turnAIUseGrenade: 3
Does anyone know whether the mod overwrites this or why this could happen?

In the folder /Ruleset/ open the file vars_XCOMFILES.rul and search for the turnAIUseGrenade: variable to learn the exact number of turns until the AI can throw grenades.

The X-Com Files V2.7B turnAIUseGrenade: is setup with this value:
turnAIUseGrenade: 1
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 19, 2022, 11:38:13 am
If you want this not to happen, look for enemy bases with interceptors every new month.

That's a good idea, except I don't have any interceptors. I have a Little Bird craft, but it just gets oneshot before it's able to do anything. Maybe I've missed something but it looks like Interceptors are locked behind Promotion III.

In the folder /Ruleset/ open the file vars_XCOMFILES.rul and search for the turnAIUseGrenade: variable to learn the exact number of turns until the AI can
Thanks a lot, I found it. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 19, 2022, 04:28:36 pm
That's a good idea, except I don't have any interceptors. I have a Little Bird craft, but it just gets oneshot before it's able to do anything.
You can stack multiple little birds with HMGs (shift-click in intercept menu) to get rid of even strongest manor guards. Could lose some of them though, but you won't lose pilots if approach the manor itself instead of UFOs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 19, 2022, 05:24:07 pm
You can stack multiple little birds with HMGs (shift-click in intercept menu) to get rid of even strongest manor guards. Could lose some of them though, but you won't lose pilots if approach the manor itself instead of UFOs.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I currently only have 1 little bird cause it felt useless, but I'll try it with some more. But they don't guard any manors (at least I don't see them). I see them around normal cult missions like Assassinations and Outposts among others.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on December 19, 2022, 11:16:09 pm
That's a good idea, except I don't have any interceptors. I have a Little Bird craft, but it just gets oneshot before it's able to do anything. Maybe I've missed something but it looks like Interceptors are locked behind Promotion III.
Thanks a lot, I found it. :)
Well, then purposefully go to the third promotion. The game doesn't have to be easy. If I could on Ironman, you can for sure.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 20, 2022, 07:31:24 am
But they don't guard any manors (at least I don't see them). I see them around normal cult missions like Assassinations and Outposts among others.
These missions are frequently generated by manors, though - it spawns an UFO that rides to a particular point and creates a mission site. If your craft is flying somewhere and is suddenly intercepted by 2+ ufos then you probably flown over a manor. You need to detect it first by patrolling, like classic alien base.

For a better interceptor I recommend going straight for thunderstorms. It's possible if you beat at least one downed or landed alien UFO. The intermediate stuff feels mostly like a waste of money.

Also don't forget good, possibly best pilots.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 12:56:40 am
Well, then purposefully go to the third promotion. The game doesn't have to be easy. If I could on Ironman, you can for sure.

Well I feel like I'm a long way away from that. The gap between promotion II and III seems really large and there is so much research to be done and to be honest even by looking at the "tech tree", it's unclear to me how I get to that point. It looks like I have to finish the cult off, but I don't know how to get to there.

These missions are frequently generated by manors, though - it spawns an UFO that rides to a particular point and creates a mission site. If your craft is flying somewhere and is suddenly intercepted by 2+ ufos then you probably flown over a manor. You need to detect it first by patrolling, like classic alien base.

For a better interceptor I recommend going straight for thunderstorms. It's possible if you beat at least one downed or landed alien UFO. The intermediate stuff feels mostly like a waste of money.

Also don't forget good, possibly best pilots.

I can't patrol over the manor because I don't have any interceptors that don't die in 1 shot. And looking at the tech tree thunderstorms seem to be even further away than normal interceptors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: vadracas on December 21, 2022, 01:33:29 am
Well I feel like I'm a long way away from that. The gap between promotion II and III seems really large and there is so much research to be done and to be honest even by looking at the "tech tree", it's unclear to me how I get to that point. It looks like I have to finish the cult off, but I don't know how to get to there.

Just keep capturing up the ranks of whichever cult you want to end. Without being too specific, to get to the HQ you need to capture an individual of particular note in one of the cult forward bases.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 02:19:45 am
Just keep capturing up the ranks of whichever cult you want to end. Without being too specific, to get to the HQ you need to capture an individual of particular note in one of the cult forward bases.
I'll get to it eventually, it's just that in the meantime I always have to reload whenever my dragonfly gets intercepted by one of the spawning ufos. It's a lot of trial and error and save scumming and it feels like I've missed something..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: SBBurzmali on December 21, 2022, 04:06:38 am
I'll get to it eventually, it's just that in the meantime I always have to reload whenever my dragonfly gets intercepted by one of the spawning ufos. It's a lot of trial and error and save scumming and it feels like I've missed something..
If you have anything that can outrun those interceptors, you can bait them away with that and attack the base. The interceptors always spawn from the base so it should be easy to find.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 11:41:16 am
Okay, because this drove me crazy, I did some experiments in the game and research in the mod files.

So it turns out:
The "ufos" that are spawning aren't actually ufos. They're just labeled as such (probably a limitation of the game).
Anyway what spawns are a mix between Mi-24 Helicopters (I think I can deal with those), MiG-29 and Angel Fighters. The later 2 are just oneshotting everything I have and are also faster than anything I have.

Looking at the x-com options I think the game expects me to have Arrows or MiG-31. The later however is also locked behind Promotion III. And the Arrow seems to only be available randomly by secret files, VIPs and some high level EXALT.

I find the MiG-31s placement in the tech tree quite awkward, because it comes right before the vanilla interceptor which seems to be superior by every metric. So I'll probably move the MiG to an earlier place in the tech tree as it doesn't really make sense to me that cultists have soviet cold war fighters, but XCOM don't have access to similar fighter jets.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 21, 2022, 12:34:58 pm
The "ufos" that are spawning aren't actually ufos.
Of course they are UFOs. Every unrecognised flyer is a UFO.


I find the MiG-31s placement in the tech tree quite awkward, because it comes right before the vanilla interceptor which seems to be superior by every metric.

I'm aware of this, but honestly it's pretty hard to increase this spacing, since I can't reasonably move the MiG to any earlier point. What I should do is redesign more advanced planes, but this is the same issue: there is not enough research projects to fit all those designs with nice, long intervals. I guess I just have too many plane types.

Of course you can do whatever you like with the tech tree, it's your game and all. But I should mention that I think it will wreck the difficulty curve.

So I'll probably move the MiG to an earlier place in the tech tree as it doesn't really make sense to me that cultists have soviet cold war fighters, but XCOM don't have access to similar fighter jets.

Why doesn't it make sense? What wouldn't make sense would be the opposite, lol.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 12:56:33 pm
Of course they are UFOs. Every unrecognised flyer is a UFO.
Well a MiG-29 is hardly an unrecognized flyer. 

I'm aware of this, but honestly it's pretty hard to increase this spacing, since I can't reasonably move the MiG to any earlier point. What I should do is redesign more advanced planes, but this is the same issue: there is not enough research projects to fit all those designs with nice, long intervals. I guess I just have too many plane types.
Why can't you move the MiG to Promotion II level and affiliate it with the Red Dawn? So even if the cults would have access to military airplanes before X-Com, X-Com could get access to the same gadgets once the contact with the Red Dawn arms dealer has been completed. And since the Arrow is already tied in with EXALT, a simliar thing could be done with the Arrow.


Why doesn't it make sense? What wouldn't make sense would be the opposite, lol.
So first of all, cults like the Black Lotus or the Church of Dagon don't strike me as the types of people who would bother learning to fly soviet era fighter jets. Secondly, realistically the manors would require a runway for those planes to take off and land. Thirdly and most importantly: The only realistic way for the cults to obtain these planes would be through black market activities. I mean they can't just place an order with the official manufacturer. And if they had to purchase those crafts through the black market, than XCOM could do the same if they can't get them legally. Ohh and the cults would also violate the countries airspace and probably get shut down by the miliary.

At least that's my train of thought. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 01:26:52 pm
Of course they are UFOs. Every unrecognised flyer is a UFO.
As amokk_gw said, a UFO is something that's not indentifiable as something we know, including hostile fighter jets. The term came about as a reaction to certain WWII phenomena, and unidentified/enemy airplanes were quite plentiful then.

Technically, what the game calls UFOs aren't actually UFOs, either. We know what they are, alien spaceships. We probably even have floor plans. :P

But UFO has been used as a synomym for a specific sort of alien spacecraft for so long, it's now a dictionary use case.

Of course you can do whatever you like with the tech tree, it's your game and all. But I should mention that I think it will wreck the difficulty curve.
How? Genuine question. Little Birds are useless against cultist fighter jets, while manors and their air dominance have been brought up repeatedly as an issue for at least novice players.

I might appreciate the tight balancing and a more deadly air game. Not everyone else does.

Why can't you move the MiG to Promotion II level and affiliate it with the Red Dawn?
Because it'll break suspension of disbelief when you can have access to fighter jets (which no amount of red tape wrangling can hide) while not being 'authorised' to use mortars and rocket launchers. Or something. Not sure actually, since you're allowed to fly Skyraiders and Arrows with just Promotion II, and both of those are military planes.

So first of all, cults like the Black Lotus or the Church of Dagon don't strike me as the types of people who would bother learning to fly soviet era fighter jets.
I think the idea is that they don't fly the jets themselves, they have inroads to the local (country-level, that is :) ) government and can paint X-Com flyers as hostile airspace violators who need shooting down. It's military personnel who actually fights you in the skies. Not sure this makes 100% sense, but certainly a lot sense than random cultists being allowed to freely and openly operate military aircraft by anything but the most dysfunctional of governments.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mathel on December 21, 2022, 01:44:23 pm
As amokk_gw said, a UFO is something that's not indentifiable as something we know, including hostile fighter jets. The term came about as a reaction to certain WWII phenomena, and unidentified/enemy airplanes were quite plentiful then.

UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. Not "unidentifiable", merely "unidentified". As such, so long as you know it is flying and you do not know what it is, it is a UFO to you.

This means that a blip on the radar is a UFO until you get some identification on them, be it visual or radio. It is a UFO to the radar operator, but not to the pilot flying it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 02:02:07 pm
UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. Not "unidentifiable", merely "unidentified". As such, so long as you know it is flying and you do not know what it is, it is a UFO to you.

This means that a blip on the radar is a UFO until you get some identification on them, be it visual or radio. It is a UFO to the radar operator, but not to the pilot flying it.

I feel like that's semantics. A MiG-29 just doesn't qualify as a UFO by common sense.

I think the idea is that they don't fly the jets themselves, they have inroads to the local (country-level, that is :) ) government and can paint X-Com flyers as hostile airspace violators who need shooting down. It's military personnel who actually fights you in the skies. Not sure this makes 100% sense, but certainly a lot sense than random cultists being allowed to freely and openly operate military aircraft by anything but the most dysfunctional of governments.
Okay, but in my case they were launched in China and China doesn't have MiG-29 and a quick google search leads me to believe that Angel Fighters are made up, so that would indicate to alien technology. So I feel like in whatever way you spin it, it doesn't make sense in one way or another. And that's okay, it's a game after all and for game balances sake I think the MiG-31 should be available sooner. Especially since it looks like in the current research spot it's entirely useless because you'll replace them with regaular interceptors 1 month later.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 02:36:18 pm
UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. Not "unidentifiable", merely "unidentified". As such, so long as you know it is flying and you do not know what it is, it is a UFO to you.

This means that a blip on the radar is a UFO until you get some identification on them, be it visual or radio. It is a UFO to the radar operator, but not to the pilot flying it.
This is not how USAF (and US government in general) used the term, neither when it was first coined as 'UFOB', nor later, nor even later when they started calling them UAPs to head off the 'must be alien spacecraft' bit. Hostile (but clearly human) aircraft of unknown type were never designated as UFOs.

Neither is it how the term's been used colloquially since then, nor how USG uses the term UAP now. NASA ouright says on its mission page: "... unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) – that is, observations of events in the sky that cannot be identified as aircraft or known natural phenomena..." If radar says it's aircraft, it's not a UFO.


If there's a hankering for redefining how X-Com the organisation uses the term for the game/mod, fine. Needs at least a pedia article then, though.


Okay, but in my case they were launched in China and China doesn't have MiG-29 and a quick google search leads me to believe that Angel Fighters are made up, so that would indicate to alien technology.
That's treading perilously close to 'fighter porn'. :D Wanting authentic aircraft for every single country on Earth is, uh, possible, I guess. "Solarius will kill himself out of sheer tedium before a quarter of it is complete" level of possible, though.

I have no idea what the Angel fighters are, but since it's really not the original cultists who fly these (mostly), I guess they might be a somewhat non-terrestrial.

So I feel like in whatever way you spin it, it doesn't make sense in one way or another.
Eh, making the MiG-21 a stand-in for J-10 (or F-16) makes enough sense, I think. One could also remove the specifics and call it a "fourth-gen air superiority fighter of unspecified type", but, well... :)

And that's okay, it's a game after all...
Solarius wants a certain amount of 'realism'. Others sometimes disagree how 'real' some of these things are, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that aspiration itself. Why make a mod that makes you roll your own eyes? :D

...and for game balances sake I think the MiG-31 should be available sooner. Especially since it looks like in the current research spot it's entirely useless because you'll replace them with regaular interceptors 1 month later.
Yeah. :( I also moved them to Promo II back when I had aspirations of redesigning the mod. That was way before any cultist fighters existed, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 02:52:21 pm
I mean there is nothing wrong with going as realistic as possible. In fact I really like that. What I've meant is, if realism is the only issue then you can just make something plausible up like with a lot of the alien ufopedia entries. For example you could buy MiG-31 from a corrupt russian organisation that sells it for a premium to select clientele. I mean we already have BlackOps, Magma, UAC and probably other shady weapons sellers.

So ultimately my question would be: What makes the most sense gameplay, balance and fun wise? Are there any reasons beyond realism to have it like it is? If the answer is yes, I'd be really interested in the thought process. If the answer is no, I think with the huge creativity I've seen so far from this mod, it should be quite easy to come up with plausible reasons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 03:13:00 pm
No disagreement there. Solarius thought it'd break current balance. Maybe it does, that's why I asked him how.


The problem the mod places in X-Com's way and the overarcing theme is not a matter of acquiring military hardware. We get plenty of machine guns before the licence come along, etc. It's about toeing the red tape and having plausible deniability for using it. Hiding away a few PKMs and RPGs is relatively easy, people do similar things all the time. When the Council gets reports of someone successfully intercepting UFOs, there's UFO 'flying the saucers' tech showing up in tech reports from X-Com, there are UFO reactors on the market, suspiciously empty hangars whenever an inspector comes by, flight hours being paid out to way too many agents...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 03:41:00 pm
I don't think I've seen a single real UFO that I would've been able to shoot down before 1999. The only ones that are flying around are middle-sized ships and I don't think you could crash them. And since the invasion starts in 1999, the aliens would reveal themselves anyway, so any kind of concealement would be moot.

So in that case, I'd make the weapons strong enough to fight regular aircrafts, but not strong enough to down a real ufo. And if you manage to down one anyway, you can have a message pop up that the council is very displeased that they had to clean after your lack of dilligence. -> -50 points.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 21, 2022, 04:58:46 pm
As I wrote before, you can use multiple birds to beat cult MiG's.

MiG-31 doesn't really solve the problem.
It has even less HP than little birds, 20 against 26.
It can use missiles, but the missiles don't outrange cult MiGs.
So you're about as prone to lose MiGs vs cult MiGs, as you do little birds. With MiGs being waaay more costly. It's a downgrade, imo.

Interceptor is cut above with it's 100 hp, but still pretty meh and even more costly, and still has no dodge bonus.

The only thing that MiG and Interceptor can do that bird can't is potentially bring down small or medium scout UFOs if they slow down. But you may as well just take landing UFOs for free.

Raven is the first adult interceptor that can faceroll both cult MiGs and early UFOs. But chances are, that it's just UFO navigation research away from much better thunderstorm.

Realistically, swarming cult MiGs with helicopter shouldn't be possible, is it?
So i'd suggest buffing MiG's durability and lowering it's cost way down so it would be worthwhile to use in the first place.
About it's tech tree place, I think it's fine. Being able to buy promo 3 rocket launcher AFTER you're able to buy MiGs is weird. And it's partly player's fault for allowing cult manors to grow in first place anyway. Although getting rid of 22+ manors wasn't walk in the park.










Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 05:07:33 pm
As I wrote before, you can use multiple birds to beat cult MiG's.

That's not really practical, you'd need at least 3 hangars in every base. And that's likely not enough because enemy MiGs mostly spawn in pairs of 2. So it'd be 2v2.

MiG-31 doesn't really solve the problem.
It has even less HP than little birds, 20 against 26.
I'll do some balancing tests with different values, both for HP as well as different ranges on the cult MiGs.

And it's partly player's fault for allowing cult manors to grow in first place anyway. Although getting rid of 22+ manors wasn't walk in the park.
I don't see how that's the players fault. Until I read about manors here in the forums, I didn't even know they spawned the crafts. I thought they were protecting the mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 21, 2022, 05:32:35 pm
Well a MiG-29 is hardly an unrecognized flyer.

sigh
Really, bro?

Why can't you move the MiG to Promotion II level and affiliate it with the Red Dawn? So even if the cults would have access to military airplanes before X-Com, X-Com could get access to the same gadgets once the contact with the Red Dawn arms dealer has been completed. And since the Arrow is already tied in with EXALT, a simliar thing could be done with the Arrow.

Because Promo III should be hard to get. It's part of the general design.
(Honestly, with MiGs at your disposal, you could just sweep most cult activities on the globe.)

Also, imagine that you are not allowed to use incendiary grenades, but MiGs are just fine. Not very sensible, eh? [EDIT: right, Juku said so too.]

So first of all, cults like the Black Lotus or the Church of Dagon don't strike me as the types of people who would bother learning to fly soviet era fighter jets.

*shrug*

Secondly, realistically the manors would require a runway for those planes to take off and land.

True, but they don't take off from this nice villa in the suburbs, come on. They simply take off from the same city.

Thirdly and most importantly: The only realistic way for the cults to obtain these planes would be through black market activities. I mean they can't just place an order with the official manufacturer. And if they had to purchase those crafts through the black market, than XCOM could do the same if they can't get them legally. Ohh and the cults would also violate the countries airspace and probably get shut down by the miliary.

They don't exactly own these assets, they're using corrupted national forces to get what they want.

As amokk_gw said, a UFO is something that's not indentifiable as something we know, including hostile fighter jets. The term came about as a reaction to certain WWII phenomena, and unidentified/enemy airplanes were quite plentiful then.

Wikipedia says that an unidentified flying object is anything that cannot be identified as any known design.
But anyway, this is a mostly American term; from a quick search, other countries don't seem to even use it (or any equivalent) in its official meaning.

Technically, what the game calls UFOs aren't actually UFOs, either. We know what they are, alien spaceships. We probably even have floor plans. :P

That's true. :)

But UFO has been used as a synomym for a specific sort of alien spacecraft for so long, it's now a dictionary use case.
How? Genuine question. Little Birds are useless against cultist fighter jets, while manors and their air dominance have been brought up repeatedly as an issue for at least novice players.

I might appreciate the tight balancing and a more deadly air game. Not everyone else does.

Probably in many ways, as the mods was written with this limitation in mind. It's not like I have an analytics team who would pore over the mod to identify all possible outcomes and impact on gameplay. :P You're supposed to be a weakling pushover at this level, and that's it.

I have already addressed the manors issue by simply decreasing their numbers, and the case remains open.

I think the idea is that they don't fly the jets themselves, they have inroads to the local (country-level, that is :) ) government and can paint X-Com flyers as hostile airspace violators who need shooting down. It's military personnel who actually fights you in the skies. Not sure this makes 100% sense, but certainly a lot sense than random cultists being allowed to freely and openly operate military aircraft by anything but the most dysfunctional of governments.

Yes, pretty much that. Not sure it's super sensible either, but close enough.

I feel like that's semantics. A MiG-29 just doesn't qualify as a UFO by common sense.

Fine, you can call it Marylin.

Excuse me, but what the heck am I supposed to do with this? Rename each instance of "UFO" in the mod to something else?

Solarius wants a certain amount of 'realism'. Others sometimes disagree how 'real' some of these things are, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that aspiration itself. Why make a mod that makes you roll your own eyes? :D

This is quite on point. :D

Yeah. :( I also moved them to Promo II back when I had aspirations of redesigning the mod. That was way before any cultist fighters existed, though.

The only thing that MiG and Interceptor can do that bird can't is potentially bring down small or medium scout UFOs if they slow down. But you may as well just take landing UFOs for free.

Exactly, this is pretty much their function.

Raven is the first adult interceptor that can faceroll both cult MiGs and early UFOs. But chances are, that it's just UFO navigation research away from much better thunderstorm.

I honestly should make a super convoluted research tree with many aircraft parts and components from various sources to make each plane viable... :P

So i'd suggest buffing MiG's durability and lowering it's cost way down so it would be worthwhile to use in the first place.

I'm worried it would make the gap between the MiG and other interceptors even smaller.

I recognise your point, but I think it should be overhauled in a more complex way... somehow. I mean the entire air game. (Which I've already done at least twice...)

Although getting rid of 22+ manors wasn't walk in the park.

Sorry about that, should be less in 2.8.

I don't see how that's the players fault.

Umm... You allow the manor to grow to level 3 and claim it's not your fault?
I mean it happens all the time, to me as well, but I'd never say "it's not my fault"! :)

Until I read about manors here in the forums, I didn't even know they spawned the crafts. I thought they were protecting the mission.

Yes, it's a matter of experience. The game's name is "UFO: Enemy Unknown" after all.

IN THE END OF THE DAY: manor patrols are not the end of the world, you can play and still do most missions while simply staying away from those cities. Manors are supposed to be mostly an inconvenience, and I think they are. Of course, sometimes it will bite you hard, but that's what enemies are for.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 21, 2022, 05:42:14 pm
That's not really practical, you'd need at least 3 hangars in every base. And that's likely not enough because enemy MiGs mostly spawn in pairs of 2. So it'd be 2v2.
For me it was 4v2 and I did have 3 hangars per base. Some - 2. You'll need multiple interceptors later anyway, and then also move them because they don't cover the entire globe.

I don't see how that's the players fault. Until I read about manors here in the forums, I didn't even know they spawned the crafts. I thought they were protecting the mission.
Manors grow in tiers over time and need at least 10 months game time before spawning MiGs. So they're either too rare and minor so you can't even understand what they do, or a serious problem that you notice and prepare for.

IN THE END OF THE DAY: manor patrols are not the end of the world, you can play and still do most missions while simply staying away from those cities. Manors are supposed to be mostly an inconvenience, and I think they are. Of course, sometimes it will bite you hard, but that's what enemies are for.

Yep, even losing transports to manor guards isn't that big of a loss anyway. Your soldiers return, it's just craft and items that are lost.
But even beyond that. With big enough financial buffer, you can TPK entire 16-people crafts multiple times and the campaign will proceed just fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 05:50:13 pm
Manors grow in tiers over time and need at least 10 months game time before spawning MiGs. So they're either too rare and minor so you can't even understand what they do, or a serious problem that you notice and prepare for.
Is that even explained somewhere? I mean this is the first time I hear about growing manors and I don't even see a manor in the game despite having done at least 50 missions in the area. All I see is some MiGs spawning near missions (sometimes). It feels like you only really start to notice this once it's too big of a problem to deal with unless you read the forums and know about this stuff. But that would be bad design, because it essentially forces you to throw 60 hours of playtime into the bin and start from scratch. You can't just ignore those missions either or you'll lose on points.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 21, 2022, 06:14:17 pm
Is that even explained somewhere?
No. You can infer it from gameplay if you pay attention. But I agree that some article or event wouldn't hurt.

But that would be bad design, because it essentially forces you to throw 60 hours of playtime into the bin and start from scratch. You can't just ignore those missions either or you'll lose on points.
Suicide little bird into manor guards, wait until guards come inside the manor. They won't spawn again for 2 weeks. Then attack with dragonfly (you should have osprey at this point though).
Here you go, 1000 points.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 06:31:16 pm
Okay thanks a lot for your elaborate replys. I'm definitely going to rebalance that in my game. I really don't like this behavior. It feels super "gotcha moment" ish.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 07:00:28 pm
As I wrote before, you can use multiple birds to beat cult MiG's.

MiG-31 doesn't really solve the problem.
It has even less HP than little birds, 20 against 26.
It can use missiles, but the missiles don't outrange cult MiGs.
Technically they do. Stingray is range 30, cultist MiGs are range 25. But hunter-killers don't really care about range.

Multiple birds can work, but they're unreliable, tend to take casualties and are short-range (on the globe). And can't kite the MiGs.

MiG-31 is sort of an upgrade, but not a very good one and next-gen interceptors are just around the corner.

Although do note that you'll be spending a lot of scientist hours on those and their weapons, even if you've got all the requirements covered. Having a few previous-gen craft to tide you over while the eggheads do their stuff is not a bad idea.

Realistically, swarming cult MiGs with helicopter shouldn't be possible, is it?
+1

Suicide little bird into manor guards, wait until guards come inside the manor. They won't spawn again for 2 weeks. Then attack with dragonfly (you should have osprey at this point though).
Here you go, 1000 points.
Ignoring the little matter of killing 60-odd maniacs armed with heavy weapons, local reinforcements, alien servants, no cover, etc, sure. :)

That's not really practical, you'd need at least 3 hangars in every base.
I've seen people build a fourth hangar right off the bat. :) I do have three in all my strike bases (well, I play with half-hangars, so actually 2 hangars and 3-4 craft).

And it's partly player's fault for allowing cult manors to grow in first place anyway.
Umm... You allow the manor to grow to level 3 and claim it's not your fault?
Manors grow in tiers over time and need at least 10 months game time before spawning MiGs.
Not necessarily, although I generally share the sentiment. Tier 3 manors can start appearing already in... September '99, I think? Not really a poor performance if you're still gearing up to take out your first cult HQ then. I think most of the manors that kill games are (well, were) from monthly scripts, not upgrades.

The 10 months are on top of the 10 months before any manors start showing up at all, and the chances of upgrading aren't that great. Again, at least before the recent change that made higher-tier manors spawning right off the bat rarer, my impression was that the hordes of manors were from monthly scripts and not really upgrades.

Until I read about manors here in the forums, I didn't even know they spawned the crafts. I thought they were protecting the mission.
Is that even explained somewhere?
Yeah, the "What, there are manors spawning hunter-killers?!" thing might also need a pedia article or something.

The explanation, not really. You're supposed to connect the dots yourself, especially after monthly spies spot you your first manors and you notice they're located in cities and when you try to approach one, the same 'UFOs' come after you.

I mean this is the first time I hear about growing manors...
I don't think the growing part really matters all that much to a player facing the manorpocalypse. They also passively eat your points over time and generate extra missions themselves but, again, you'll generally be fine if you go by "A lingering mission point is bad and should be taken care of ASAP unless I really know what I'm doing."

Because Promo III should be hard to get. It's part of the general design.
(Honestly, with MiGs at your disposal, you could just sweep most cult activities on the globe.)
Probably in many ways, as the mods was written with this limitation in mind.
I can appreciate the idea, but in practice it doesn't seem to work as neatly as you envision it. Maybe there needs to be a fourth promotion where you get MiGs, Skyraiders, MG and explosive licenses, etc, but not the really heavy stuff like mortars, F-22s, high-end BO products and so on? Not sure implementing that won't be a nightmare, though.

Excuse me, but what the heck am I supposed to do with this? Rename each instance of "UFO" in the mod to something else?
Well, you could write a short pedia article which says that either X-Com itself or the USG or UN of this timeline use 'UFO' in the same sense as Mathel did, anything without an immediate ID. Probably easier and faster than arguing about it, if you don't enjoy that. :D

I'm worried it would make the gap between the MiG and other interceptors even smaller.

I recognise your point, but I think it should be overhauled in a more complex way... somehow. I mean the entire air game. (Which I've already done at least twice...)
Well, X-Com craft are about halfway defined by their weapons loadout, so you could give heavy missiles to Interceptors and maybe both light and heavy to Ravens. That'd make the MiG-31 "baby's first interceptor" and Interceptors a meaningful upgrade.

I've been playing with such changes for a while now and all the craft felt like actual upgrades, and Thunderstorms are still preferable to any of them. And I can't really fight HK UFOs or big bad ones even with those.

Unless you want Interceptors and Ravens to still be rather vulnerable to cultist craft, that seemed okay to me.

You could also start putting more shields, armour, evasion and other crazy stuff on both UFOs and X-Com craft. ;D


Okay thanks a lot for your elaborate replys. I'm definitely going to rebalance that in my game.
Just curious, how? Are you going to just deprive yourself of manor assaults, which are some of the more fun tactical missions (at least the first few times)? Kill the hunter-killers so they won't tank your air game? Nerf them into the ground?

Yes, it's a matter of experience. The game's name is "UFO: Enemy Unknown" after all.
Good point! I mean, I get the frustration, but you're supposed to live and learn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 21, 2022, 07:29:24 pm
Technically they do. Stingray is range 30, cultist MiGs are range 25. But hunter-killers don't really care about range.
Only Mirage and MiG-17 is range 25, Phantom and MiG-29 are 30 range.
But this is somewhat major. Since your MiGs are fast, you can, in theory, juke Mirage by switching attack/escape while staying in 30 range.

By the way, MIG19 mission (also instead supposed to be 17?) uses MiG29, maybe bug?
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_MIG19_INTERCEPTION
    retaliationOdds: 0
    raceWeights: {}
    operationType: 6
    waves:
      - ufo: STR_MIG29

  - type: STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_MI29_INTERCEPTION
    retaliationOdds: 0
    raceWeights: {}
    operationType: 6
    waves:
      - ufo: STR_MIG29

Multiple birds can work, but they're unreliable, tend to take casualties
And MiGs aren't better in terms of HP or dodge. With good pilots both can be used, but birds are cheap to replace and maintain.

and are short-range (on the globe)
MiGs actually have shorter range than birds. (=
They seem to be trade-off rather than upgrade.

Ignoring the little matter of killing 60-odd maniacs armed with heavy weapons, local reinforcements, alien servants, no cover, etc, sure.
It's a good challenge on ironman, pretty manageable with osprey. But with savescumming? A cakewalk. Manors are essentially emergency free points.

Also there's another way to go around manors - get to sweet, sweet incredible KITSUNE-106. But it's locked behind some RNG and Promo 3.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 07:46:03 pm
Only Mirage is range 25, Phantom and MiG-29 are 30 range.
By the way, MIG19 mission (also instead supposed to be 17?) uses MiG29, maybe bug?
I was actually looking at the MiG-17. :-[ These MiG versions are all over the place.

MiGs actually have shorter range than birds.
And MiGs aren't better in terms of HP or dodge. With good pilots both can be used, but birds are cheap to replace and maintain.
They indeed do. :-[ I'm used to my own Birds and other craft with much shorter ranges than the mod itself uses. Sorry for the confusion.

Though LBs also need double the pilots, so that's an extra cost if you keep losing them. And the ability to safely kite cultist fighter jets is still something the helicopters don't have. Not to mention taking a bit more fire (and every hit is a possible kill here) before getting into range.

They seem to be trade-off rather than upgrade.
Yeah, now that I look more closely at vanilla values you're right. Mine have 50 HP.

Edit:
Also there's another way to go around manors - get to sweet, sweet incredible KITSUNE-106. But it's locked behind some RNG and Promo 3.
True. Did Solarius put in some more roadblocks to getting the Kitsune, I forget?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 21, 2022, 07:48:42 pm
Though LBs also need double the pilots, so that's an extra cost if you keep losing them.
You don't lose them if you patrol and don't target UFOs specifically. Or something like that.
I actually consider that a feature of LBs - double bravery train  ;D

True. Did Solarius put in some more roadblocks to getting the Kitsune, I forget?
Seems to be just Promo 3 and Kiryu-Kai history.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 07:53:04 pm
That doesn't really sound like something that's intended.

Although what's the mod's 'pilotsEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance', still 100? Then it doesn't really matter. And I'm using 75%, so different experience again.

Edit: And, yeah, the Kitsune research requirements seem unchanged (there's a random 1/3 chance to fail to find the thing as well). Was there actually a plan to make it harder to access or am I misremembering?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 21, 2022, 08:12:20 pm
Good point! I mean, I get the frustration, but you're supposed to live and learn.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to this, but either the problem is that they grow over time, in which case there is no timely feedback of the players mistakes or there is nothing to learn because they spawn out of thin air and just game over you (if you're playing ironman). It would already help tremendously if they weren't invisble.

I've seen people build a fourth hangar right off the bat. :) I do have three in all my strike bases (well, I play with half-hangars, so actually 2 hangars and 3-4 craft).
I don't have the funds for this and I need some hangars for vans because not every mission is accessible with the dragonfly. I know you get a van instantly and could theoretically sell one craft and buy a van if you need it for a certain mission, but I find that tedious.


I can appreciate the idea, but in practice it doesn't seem to work as neatly as you envision it. Maybe there needs to be a fourth promotion where you get MiGs, Skyraiders, MG and explosive licenses, etc, but not the really heavy stuff like mortars, F-22s, high-end BO products and so on? Not sure implementing that won't be a nightmare, though.
I really like the idea of a 4th promotion. I feel like distance between promotion I and II is really well spaced to give a nice feel of progress and promotion III is waaaays off and highly depends on what you're researching and what you encounter. So putting promotion IV in the spot of the current promotion III would be nice and have a step in between.
I personally also would like to see the starting being moved to 1 year earlier, but maybe that removes the tention. The way I approach it is to try and get to the same point I'd be at the start of the FMP at January 1999, but that's just way to optimistic without looking things up.

Well, X-Com craft are about halfway defined by their weapons loadout, so you could give heavy missiles to Interceptors and maybe both light and heavy to Ravens. That'd make the MiG-31 "baby's first interceptor" and Interceptors a meaningful upgrade.
That's a good idea. That way the progress route would be much smoother and I feel there would be both more agency on the player side and more control on the developer side about the strength. In the sense of: Fight earthy stuff with earthy stuff and aliens with the good stuff.

You could also start putting more shields, armour, evasion and other crazy stuff on both UFOs and X-Com craft. ;D
Yeah some pros and cons. You can have specialized crafts for certain encounters and also generalized ones that are decent at everything but don't excell at any particular task.

Just curious, how? Are you going to just deprive yourself of manor assaults, which are some of the more fun tactical missions (at least the first few times)? Kill the hunter-killers so they won't tank your air game? Nerf them into the ground?
Good question, don't fully know yet. But here's the current thought process: I defintely leave the manors in. Currently I'm thinking of rearranging the Arrow and the MiG-31 in the tech tree and adjust their values. Currently their values are too near to each other, so I'm thinking to have one be fast and squishy and the other slower but tankier. I need to do some experimentation with the weapons as I currently only have access to the cannon and no rockets. Since enemy fighters tend to spawn in pairs of 2, I want the tankier one to be able to take out 1 fighter by taking heavy damage and then maybe die to the other and the squishier to be able to kill 1 without taking damage but then either run out of ammo or die.

Pros of the heavy fighter would be: he could take out 2 helicopters without dying but would not survive an Angel Fighter and the fast fighter could take out any 1 fighter but would not have any ammo to deal with a second (even a helicopter). So the fast one is safer, but would have to rearm before approaching the target again, delaying the mission and risking a despawn or night mission.

Maybe even adding a new missile like the Sidewinder air-to-air missile if I see that Stingray is too powerfull against those enemies. But that'd be a lot more effort.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 21, 2022, 10:45:37 pm
...either the problem is that they grow over time, in which case there is no timely feedback of the players mistakes or there is nothing to learn because they spawn out of thin air and just game over you (if you're playing ironman). It would already help tremendously if they weren't invisble.
I think the manors are sorta like the nu-Com satellites of XCF. Something you half-ass the first time, suffer, and then learn, adapt and overcome. I mean, I've seen many a streamer both cheese and legitimately counter parts of the mod with their knowledge. Whether that's a good thing, well, opinions vary for either game.


There is some feedback (monthly base discovery, the cultist choppers/jets themselves :) ), but I do think a pedia article or maybe even another 'cult message' that gets all players on the same page wrt manor mechanics would be better than the veteran/code-diver and newbie split we have now. Especially since the forum is really not visible to many, maybe even most XCF players.

The problem isn't actually that they're invisible, or that they spawn invisibly, or that they grow. Alien bases do the same, and are generally fine. It's that they accumulate, early and at a good clip, and you have no real idea that you need to go and start looking for them. Alien bases at least come with a large construction mission and supply runs to point the way.

If they were always visible, it'd deprive you of the fun (is it fun?) of finding them. I don't know why the AWACS got removed, but having an early radar craft might be a more plausible solution. Or perhaps some sort of cultist supply missions? I mean, they do have to restock their tea and golf ball reserves sometime. :)

Currently I'm thinking of rearranging the Arrow and the MiG-31 in the tech tree and adjust their values.
You're aware that you only get one Arrow, right? That means either a lot of base-hopping/transfers or limited utility. Not to mention if it gets shot down, it's gone.

I need to do some experimentation with the weapons as I currently only have access to the cannon and no rockets.
I think you're supposed to get Stingrays ASAP after you get your first fighters. The cannons have staying power, but neither range nor burst damage.

Since enemy fighters tend to spawn in pairs of 2...
Angel fighters should come in triples, actually.

So the fast one is safer, but would have to rearm before approaching the target again, delaying the mission and risking a despawn or night mission.
The jets and especially the helicopters kinda drift off once their immediate targets are gone. Wait a little until they get out of immediate range and they'll be as harmless as kittens. You can also escort your transports if you wish.

But since the big deal with cultist aircraft is that they, well, guard the mansion, rearming doesn't really matter much. Kite them away, shoot down what you can, and assault the defenceless mansion the next day. There's like a week of delay for them to 'recharge'. If you can't take a mansion with a ground assault, now that's another cup of tea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 22, 2022, 12:17:46 am
If they were always visible, it'd deprive you of the fun (is it fun?) of finding them. I don't know why the AWACS got removed, but having an early radar craft might be a more plausible solution. Or perhaps some sort of cultist supply missions? I mean, they do have to restock their tea and golf ball reserves sometime. :)

I think it could be fun to find them, but in order for that to happen you'd have to know that they exist in the first place. For alien bases in the base game you see regular supply ships going there and just overall traffic. And there isn't really anyhting preventing you from assaulting an alien base if you can take it. In XCF the patrols prevent you from both discovering the base in the first place and then assaulting it. I feel like there are too many player unfriendly mechanics stacked on top of each other.

You're aware that you only get one Arrow, right? That means either a lot of base-hopping/transfers or limited utility. Not to mention if it gets shot down, it's gone.
No I wasn't aware, I thought you can manufacture it or buy it. But that should be an easy change.


The jets and especially the helicopters kinda drift off once their immediate targets are gone.

Not always, I tried baiting them with a little bird and had the dragonfly behind it. They killed the LB and once the dragonfly came in sensor range, they charged that as well.



But since the big deal with cultist aircraft is that they, well, guard the mansion, rearming doesn't really matter much. Kite them away, shoot down what you can, and assault the defenceless mansion the next day.

I'd probably make them stay in the air for longer (for like 2-3 days), so either you deal with them, or the mission is gone and obviously rebalance the enemy fighters as well, cause a lot of them are samey as well. It'd be nice if at least some of them had their strength and weaknesses like different evasion and reload times. Stuff like that is easy to adjust and can add a good amount of depth.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 22, 2022, 02:41:05 pm
And there isn't really anyhting preventing you from assaulting an alien base if you can take it. In XCF the patrols prevent you from both discovering the base in the first place and then assaulting it.
I think that might change in the future.

Not always, I tried baiting them with a little bird and had the dragonfly behind it. They killed the LB and once the dragonfly came in sensor range, they charged that as well.
Wait some more, until they drift off to the other end of the continent or so. They can't intercept what's outside their limited detection/interception range.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 22, 2022, 09:42:10 pm
Okay, I feel like I'm making good progress of modding the mod. I rebalanced all the enemy interceptors as well as the MiG-31 and the Arrow.
I looked at the save file and seen that there were almost 20 manors around, so I just went ahead and deleted them all to get a clean slate.

I tried to remove the spawning of higher level manors, but something doesn't work:
Code: [Select]
missionScripts:
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus 
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus1
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus2
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus3
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus4
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus5
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus6
  - delete: CultGreatestManorBlackLotus7

But I just had a Black Lotus greatest manor spawn out of nowhere. Any idea of what I'm missing?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 22, 2022, 09:53:13 pm
I looked at the save file and seen that there were almost 20 manors around, so I just went ahead and deleted them all to get a clean slate.
What's your timeline? I'd have left a couple in, cult manors lose their teeth relatively quickly if your research is remotely viable. And if it isn't, the aliens will do a repeat soon enough.

I tried to remove the spawning of higher level manors, but something doesn't work:

But I just had a Black Lotus greatest manor spawn out of nowhere. Any idea of what I'm missing?
Did you roll over a new month? AFAIK, new spawns are also written into the save and will still fire even if the script that did the writing is now kaput.

As an aside, I don't really recommend just deleting stuff like that with an ongoing game. You could've just removed the tier 3 spawns from the list, or something like that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 22, 2022, 10:08:11 pm
What's your timeline? I'd have left a couple in, cult manors lose their teeth relatively quickly if your research is remotely viable. And if it isn't, the aliens will do a repeat soon enough.
It's march 1999. I deleted them because they were pretty much all greatest manors, so I have not really many options to get to there. And assaulting a manor will take a lot of time, so I'd rather have like a clean slate.

Did you roll over a new month? AFAIK, new spawns are also written into the save and will still fire even if the script that did the writing is now kaput.
Yes it's a new month since I did the changes.
No I did a search for manor and the only thing that's in there is the new base that spawned and the mission statistics from previous missions, otherwise there is nothing in the save file that should mess with the script.

As an aside, I don't really recommend just deleting stuff like that with an ongoing game. You could've just removed the tier 3 spawns from the list, or something like that.
I'm not sure I can follow. I thought that's how you delete the missions from the list? Also I didn't edit XCF mod, I made a mod that does the overwrites. So in case I mess something up, I can just disable my mod and and it should work.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 22, 2022, 10:25:34 pm
Yes it's a new month since I did the changes.
Strange. Share the save and the date you were getting the manor, perhaps?

I'm not sure I can follow. I thought that's how you delete the missions from the list? Also I didn't edit XCF mod, I made a mod that does the overwrites. So in case I mess something up, I can just disable my mod and and it should work.
Yes, but outright removing parts of the mod is always a potential danger. E.g. now you've also removed a bunch of regular manors along with the 'greatest' ones. In this case, I suppose it actually isn't a problem, but it's a bad habit to get into.

And, well, while making an addon mod is all fine and recommended, if it messes up your save then merely disabling it might not undo the damage.

Edit:
It's march 1999. I deleted them because they were pretty much all greatest manors...
Wait a moment! How is this even possible?! 'Greatest' manors start spawning in month 20, i.e. August '99, regular ones in month 10 (Oct '98) and need at least 10 months to upgrade to 'greatest', so also August '99 at the earliest.
My mistake, it's '97-'98 and you're now in '99. Still, that's a lot of tier 3 manors for half a year of availability.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 22, 2022, 11:01:32 pm
Yes, but outright removing parts of the mod is always a potential danger. E.g. now you've also removed a bunch of regular manors along with the 'greatest' ones. In this case, I suppose it actually isn't a problem, but it's a bad habit to get into.
Ohh I do backup of my saves all the time and I never overwrite an old save. So I could easily disable my mod and return the older save file.



So I think I know what happened. I made the changes in early February 1999.
Here are the specs of the new base that popped up:
Code: [Select]
alienBases:
  - lon: 2.1205750411731104
    lat: -0.54541539124822791
    id: 16
    pactCountry: ""
    race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS
    deployment: STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSAULT
    startMonth: 27
    minutesSinceLastHuntMissionGeneration: 12200
    genMissionCount: 0

So since the game actually starts in December 1996, I think month 27 is February 1999.

So I checked back the old save files before the changes in early February 1999 and lo and behold, there was a mission underway to create a new base.
Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSAULT
    region: STR_SOUTH_EAST_ASIA
    race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS
    nextWave: 0
    nextUfoCounter: 0
    spawnCountdown: 39698
    liveUfos: 0
    uniqueID: 537
    missionSiteZone: -1

I assume this has been completed in February and I only found out about it in March. So this should truly be the last greatest manor that spawns. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 22, 2022, 11:22:56 pm
So I could easily disable my mod and return the older save file.
That will eat whatever time you've invested into playing since then. But fair enough, most of these issues can be worked around via save editing anyway.

So I think I know what happened. I made the changes in early February 1999.

So since the game actually starts in December 1996, I think month 27 is February 1999.
December '96 is month 0, so month 27 is actually March.

So I checked back the old save files before the changes in early February 1999 and lo and behold, there was a mission underway to create a new base.

I assume this has been completed in February and I only found out about it in March.
If the mission isn't in the save, it can't create a new base. You should have seen either the mission or the new base when you looked.
Edit: Well, I suppose you did and it was a lingering mission from the manorpocalypse era. Missions already in the save can linger for however long they've been set up to. Even vanilla X-Com has multi-month abduction missions etc because of that.
Edit2: But this is also why just removing parts of the mod is dangerous. Had you removed the STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSAULT mission together with the mission script, new games would have been fine but a save could get borked. This kind of comes up on rare occasions when the mod gets updated and people try it on old saves.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 23, 2022, 12:11:48 am
Yes I know the progress in the meantime would be lost, but if something is really wrong you usually see it within a reasonable amount of time.

Ohh okay, I didn't know that missions linger around for multiple months. This is actually the first time I spend some serious time looking at the save file.

Edit2: But this is also why just removing parts of the mod is dangerous. Had you removed the STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSAULT mission together with the mission script, new games would have been fine but a save could get borked. This kind of comes up on rare occasions when the mod gets updated and people try it on old saves.

Yeah the save just wouldn't load. It happend already a couple of times, but it's usually just a matter of figuring out what's wrong and then fixing it. And I do check for references across the whole mod before I remove something. The whole structure system is actually quite well made. If there is an ID in use that doesn't exist anymore, the game just wouldn't start until you fix it. It's not always elegant, but it works at the end of the day and I learn quite a bit in the process.

Thanks for your assistance!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Dreams_Of_Cheese on December 23, 2022, 05:56:19 am
I love the Osiron Hacienda mission. It scratches the SWAT-y breaching a fortress gameplay I think that the early cult stuff lacks. Super good mission!

I ended up getting a Mrrshan Rifle out of it, which is the first time I've ever seen one. It seems like it has no prerequisite researches to manufacture and use, so I suppose my question is firstly is that intended? And second, where would I have found this weapon in normal gameplay? It's a pretty nice upgrade -- pulse rifles before the invasion even starts without selling my soul to MAGMA.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 23, 2022, 11:23:05 am
Not gonna lie, the air game is 0% fun to design for me. I don't even like the X-Com interception minigame much, so I don't feel particularly enthused to work on it... But I do work on it, occasionally.

Maybe I'll create a new thread solely for this, if need be.

Well, X-Com craft are about halfway defined by their weapons loadout, so you could give heavy missiles to Interceptors and maybe both light and heavy to Ravens. That'd make the MiG-31 "baby's first interceptor" and Interceptors a meaningful upgrade.

Hmm, I'll consider that, thanks.

Still, it's only half of the problem; the other half is that planes are too close to one another.

Unless you want Interceptors and Ravens to still be rather vulnerable to cultist craft, that seemed okay to me.

Not particularly. Only fictional enemy fighters, like the Angel, should be able to compete with the Interceptor on equal terms.

You could also start putting more shields, armour, evasion and other crazy stuff on both UFOs and X-Com craft. ;D

That counts as a "total overhaul" :D

By the way, MIG19 mission (also instead supposed to be 17?) uses MiG29, maybe bug?

Not exactly a bug, since it doesn't cause any issues, but it is an internal typo. I will fix it.

Although what's the mod's 'pilotsEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance', still 100? Then it doesn't really matter. And I'm using 75%, so different experience again.

Right, it was missing. Felt not right, so I changed it.

Edit: And, yeah, the Kitsune research requirements seem unchanged (there's a random 1/3 chance to fail to find the thing as well). Was there actually a plan to make it harder to access or am I misremembering?

There was, but hasn't happened yet. Any suggestions?

I love the Osiron Hacienda mission. It scratches the SWAT-y breaching a fortress gameplay I think that the early cult stuff lacks. Super good mission!

Thanks! It's rare, so hard to get any feedback on.

I ended up getting a Mrrshan Rifle out of it, which is the first time I've ever seen one. It seems like it has no prerequisite researches to manufacture and use, so I suppose my question is firstly is that intended? And second, where would I have found this weapon in normal gameplay? It's a pretty nice upgrade -- pulse rifles before the invasion even starts without selling my soul to MAGMA.

This weapon can only be gotten from some very specific places in the mod; paart from the Hacienda, I can only think of one other place where it might appear. As such, it is indeed a random gift which is supposed to be a little OP compared to normal guns of this level.

EDIT: @Juku: Did the change with the Interceptor as you suggested. Let's see what happens! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 23, 2022, 01:19:52 pm
Not gonna lie, the air game is 0% fun to design for me.
Well, you could farm the design work out to amokk_gw. :D Or Dioxine. Piratez has a fair amount of complexity there.

[Kitsune stuff]
There was, but hasn't happened yet. Any suggestions?
Hmm, not sure either. Maybe Advanced Intel Center? Thay may not be enough, though. Perhaps some high-up cultist interrogation, or possibly even a separate mission to save some hapless Kiryu-Kai veteran who tells you where to start looking?

Edit: Thought about it some more. This is probably too convoluted, but when has that stopped me? :P

Have there be 'Kitsune rumours' when researching Promo III and Kiryu-Kai. Then, when you get the Advanced Intel Center (or perhaps High Access Level would be more appropriate) and hit month 20 or so (the start of the manorpocalypse, perhaps randomised to plus or minus a few months), unlock a message that says your spies have found out more rumours and it's supposed to have crashed into the Amazonian rainforest, then captured and moved to a secret military base in the area. But all contact was lost one day, and the few people in the Brazilian intelligence (or whoever) who knew about where it was located met strange, untimely deaths.

Now spawn a new 'alien' base somewhere in the Amazon that has been overrun with Chupacabras! Perhaps with a survivor or two locked into well-stocked panic rooms. Maybe even the original pilot. The rumours it's somewhere in there, now you gotta look for it! Might also serve as a late-ish reminder that there could be invisible manors out there and your aircraft have radars.

Not sure which terrain would be suitable for having a Kitsune in a hangar. Maybe the BL base, or the abandoned military base terrain (the one in Cyberweb heists). Both are derived from what were originally X-Com base sets, after all.

Did the change with the Interceptor as you suggested. Let's see what happens!
Cool!

I suspect others might still go "Meh, just wait for the Thunderstorm".

Edit2: It looks like you missed the strings for 'Light Missile'? In both the Pedia and on the craft.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 23, 2022, 04:55:18 pm
Not exactly a bug, since it doesn't cause any issues, but it is an internal typo. I will fix it.
I mean, there already was MIG_29 interception mission (actually also with typo - STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_MI29_INTERCEPTION).
And there is STR_MIG17 defined in UFOs, but it isn't used in any mission.
Thus I assumed one of the cults was supposed to use MiG-17 instead of both using MiG-29, as of now.

That being said they're all essentially the same but still...

Quote
Now spawn a new 'alien' base somewhere in the Amazon that has been
overrun with Chupacabras!
This feels like already overused trope. Dr. Alpha's base, Syndicate spider base, every other chupa hunting mission.

I think something like scavenger hunt would be cool. Break mothballed kitsune into multiple parts, and beating some mission enables event for getting the part. For example, divide parts between four cult HQs, so you only get kitsune when you beat them all.

Or between four cult manors of any tier, as it's a tool that lets you somewhat ignore them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 23, 2022, 05:45:16 pm
This feels like already overused trope. Dr. Alpha's base, Syndicate spider base, every other chupa hunting mission.
That's kinda true. :-[ My idea was that most of the Chupacabra missions I recall (apart from Dr. Alpha) have been in at least semi-open terrain, and they'd be a lot more dangerous in close quarters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we ever face Chupacabras in a maze? Spiders aren't half as bad in my experience. (Do note that I use 'leeroy' spiders and Chupacabras, which are a lot more dangerous.)

Also, I had somehow associated the Kitsune and South American jungle instead of Borneo, and Chupacabra lore is heavily tied to SA.

I think something like scavenger hunt would be cool. Break mothballed kitsune into multiple parts, and beating some mission enables event for getting the part. For example, divide parts between four cult HQs, so you only get kitsune when you beat them all.

Or between four cult manors of any tier, as it's a tool that lets you somewhat ignore them.
It's a cool idea, but I have a hard time seeing a fluffy justification for the cultists to have it.


Hmm, how about an Osiron facility somewhere in SE Asia? Or several, if the scavenger hunt idea takes off. Osiron is also kinda Asian-themed, and Kiryu-Kai was Japanese. And Osiron are the magpies of the setting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on December 23, 2022, 07:32:39 pm
Well, Alpha's is pretty maze-y and chupacabr-y and I do I have flashbacks of it. Thing is, with vanilla monsters most underground base missions are pretty much the same long, boring-but-intimidating hunt for these sneaky last monsters or droids (cyberweb heist). It's just too much of the same experience.
With leeroys I guess it would more fun? I'm not sure.
Although, MIB->Magma attack and Red HQ does feel different.

Yeah Osiron was my first idea, they fit the theme very well, but gameplay wise - I dunno. Existing missions are pretty RNG and aren't much of a challenge that battle for kitsune needs.
And making new mission would kinda defeat the purpose of the hunt.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 23, 2022, 07:56:07 pm
Well, Alpha's is pretty maze-y and chupacabr-y and I do I have flashbacks of it.
I have memories of spiders and rats instead. And scorpions. For some reason, there were unproportionally many scorpions in mine. :-\

Thing is, with vanilla monsters most underground base missions are pretty much the same long, boring-but-intimidating hunt for these sneaky last monsters or droids (cyberweb heist).
With leeroys I guess it would more fun? I'm not sure.
You could try it. I hope my Leeroy submod still mostly works for 2.7. Leeroys make monster hunts significantly shorter and add tension, just like the zombie hordes gunning for your brains. Except some of these guys are actually fast (like Chupacabras ;D ).

Yeah Osiron was my first idea, they fit the theme very well, but gameplay wise - I dunno. Existing missions are pretty RNG and aren't much of a challenge that battle for kitsune needs.

And making new mission would kinda defeat the purpose of the hunt.
Er, why?

But even then, a number of special Haciendas with garages holding Kitsune parts doesn't seem like a bad idea. These have some pretty heavily armed guys. Could even add a few Tech Troopers there to go with the theme.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 23, 2022, 08:15:48 pm
Not gonna lie, the air game is 0% fun to design for me. I don't even like the X-Com interception minigame much, so I don't feel particularly enthused to work on it... But I do work on it, occasionally.

I'm happy to assist with that. I really enjoy balancing the air game. Here's what I've got so far in case you want to use some of it:

I balanced both the MiG-31 and the Arrow for Promotion II and to work with 1 normal cannon so far.

Code: [Select]
  crafts:
  - type: STR_ARROW
    requires:
      - STR_ARROW
    fuelMax: 2000
    damageMax: 21
    speedMax: 1900
    accel: 4
    weapons: 2
    weaponTypes:
      - 0
      - 2
    weaponStrings: [STR_CANNON, STR_LIGHT_MISSILES]
    soldiers: 1
    vehicles: 0
    pilots: 1
    maxItems: 999
    allowLanding: false
    costBuy: 225000
    costSell: 110000
    costRent: 40000
    refuelRate: 50
    radarRange: 672
    radarChance: 100
    sightRange: 1696
    transferTime: 96
    score: 150
  - type: STR_MIG31
    requires:
      - STR_MIG31
    fuelMax: 2000
    damageMax: 30
    speedMax: 1400
    accel: 3
    weapons: 2
    weaponTypes:
      - 0
      - 2
    weaponStrings: [STR_CANNON, STR_LIGHT_MISSILES]
    soldiers: 1
    vehicles: 0
    pilots: 1
    maxItems: 999
    allowLanding: false
    costBuy: 175000
    costRent: 30000
    costSell: 85000
    refuelRate: 50
    radarRange: 672
    radarChance: 100
    sightRange: 1696
    transferTime: 96
    score: 110


And here are the "cult" crafts. Haven't tested the helicopters properly yet, but the jets work well against both the MiG and the Arrow. In all cases the Little Bird got annihilated, but that's mostly because of the guns.

I made the MiG-17 into a overall crappy craft, but I increased the spawn count to 3. The MiG-29 is jack of all trades, master of none. The Mirage has a high reload time, but also high damage and is faster than the X-Com MiG and the Phantom is a cannon craft with low range, low damage but constant fire.

Code: [Select]
ufos:
  - type: STR_AH1_COBRA
    damageMax: 10
    speedMax: 270
    accel: 1
    armor: 0
    power: 3
    range: 5
    score: 20   
    reload: 20
  - type: STR_UH_1B_HUEY
    damageMax: 5
    speedMax: 230
    accel: 1
    armor: 0
    power: 1
    range: 5
    score: 15
    reload: 10
  - type: STR_MI_24
    damageMax: 30
    speedMax: 260
    accel: 1
    armor: 1
    power: 15
    range: 10
    score: 30
    reload: 60   
  - type: STR_CHINOOK
    damageMax: 20
    speedMax: 210
    accel: 1
    armor: 0
    power: 5
    range: 10
    score: 25
    reload: 50
  - type: STR_F4_PHANTOM
    damageMax: 30
    speedMax: 1200
    accel: 2 
    range: 15
    power: 1
    score: 50
    reload: 10   
  - type: STR_MIG17
    damageMax: 10
    speedMax: 800
    accel: 2
    power: 10
    range: 10
    score: 25
    reload: 20   
  - type: STR_MIG29
    damageMax: 33
    speedMax: 1300
    accel: 2
    power: 10
    range: 50
    score: 50
    reload: 40 
  - type: STR_MIRAGE   
    damageMax: 24 
    speedMax: 1850
    accel: 2   
    power: 20
    range: 25
    score: 50   
    reload: 150     
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: alexander steel wolf on December 23, 2022, 09:48:01 pm
I have been reading these last entries and I have seen that there are plans for the kitsune.

To tell the truth, it always seemed to me that they gave it to you too "easy". Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, as the mod itself is difficult, but it always seemed a little strange to me that all that knowledge had been "frozen", so to speak, and that no government had tried to replicate all that knowledge technology previously.

I was always struck by a report of some kind of robot called CHAD, which is apparently related to the xenonauts project. Could it be that psychonauts still exist, have gone mad and become half-robots and "guard" secret technologies to use for dark purposes? I'm not saying do a whole arc, but I do have some missions that, when you finish them, give you the kitsune (although I like the idea that they sold some of those technologies to Osiron, and thus special missions with Osiron would be unlocked).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 23, 2022, 11:36:16 pm
...it always seemed a little strange to me that all that knowledge had been "frozen", so to speak, and that no government had tried to replicate all that knowledge technology previously.

I was always struck by a report of some kind of robot called CHAD, which is apparently related to the xenonauts project.
How'd you get that from the Ufopedia articles? ???

CHAD is supposedly Kiryu-Kai (Japanese) tech, and Xenonauts were primarily a US-Soviet enterprise (well, at least in their own fluff, no idea about Solarius' canon).

The 'Lost Alien Ship Data Analysis' says we have no hope of developing a sufficient tech base for replicating this any time soon. Not X-Com, not the world governments, not the Illuminati Council, not MAGMA, not the Syndicate, nobody. So I imagine they tried and concluded that alien hand-me-downs and tech derived from those were better for their shadow ops than trying to work with Mrrshan propulsion systems (or Gnolam, or whoever these bat critters are :) ), speedrun a few centuries of tech base development and get who knows what kind of social side effects to go with it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: alexander steel wolf on December 26, 2022, 02:36:52 pm
Hi, @Juku121!

We have never had the opportunity to cross words in this forum, but when I read it I always see you involved. Regardless of what may or may not agree with your arguments, your work to improve this mod is commendable, even admirable.

That being said, and responding to your observations, there are things that I have simply deduced, being aware that I could be missing information (either because I have not unlocked it during my game, or because I have never played xenonauts). Thanks for the clarifications, although when I played my first game I thought that the harheads (or whatever they spell), which are those robots with their brains exposed, had some relationship with the psyconauts. I don't know, I liked the idea and I saw a lot of potential, with the whole issue of the factories in which they were replacing humans.

If this idea then cannot be possible, I would then propose special missions against Osiron (that they have the Kitsune pieces).

All the best!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on December 26, 2022, 03:05:36 pm
We have never had the opportunity to cross words in this forum, but when I read it I always see you involved.
It's a phase. It'll pass. :D

Thanks for the clarifications, although when I played my first game I thought that the harheads (or whatever they spell), which are those robots with their brains exposed, had some relationship with the psyconauts.
I don't really know where the Jarheads fit in the XCF universe, but the fluff text seems to tie them to a Dr. Who organisation.
Apparently they're now getting closer ties with Dagonites as well.

AFAIK, the 'psychonaut' bit is entirely fan fiction. The Goldhawk game had no substance (ab)use that I can recall, not even non-health medikit charges.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: SBBurzmali on December 26, 2022, 07:26:43 pm

Thanks! It's rare, so hard to get any feedback on.


For the Hacienda, the lack of a clear path for the AI to close does play havoc with enemy movements from time to time. I've played the map maybe 5 times and after the first, it became clear that the AI didn't really know how to send troops to the parapets, aside from the few that start there, and if I didn't punch a hole in the wall for them to escape, I could lob explosives over into the courtyard and start the morale failure cascade before I'd even breached the gate. After that, most of the enemies units in the main building would congregate in the hallway leading to the front door, making them once again subject to gas and grenades. Overall, I think it is a good mission, it only runs into some trouble once you've seen it enough to exploit the AI behavior on it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 27, 2022, 12:16:04 pm
Hmm, not sure either. Maybe Advanced Intel Center? Thay may not be enough, though. Perhaps some high-up cultist interrogation, or possibly even a separate mission to save some hapless Kiryu-Kai veteran who tells you where to start looking?

Edit: Thought about it some more. This is probably too convoluted, but when has that stopped me? :P

(...)[/quote]

Overall a solid idea, worty considering. Maybe not with chupas (I agree with Stone Lake it might be overused), but some other faction is possible. We have some underused groups, like the Apocalypse. Osiron clearly fits the bill, but I think some factions are more desperate for new missions.
I'll put it in the suggestions bucket. For now, I'll just add Advanced Intel Center to the prereqs.

Edit2: It looks like you missed the strings for 'Light Missile'? In both the Pedia and on the craft.

Not sure what you mean, missed in what sense? Where can you see the bug?

I'm happy to assist with that. I really enjoy balancing the air game. Here's what I've got so far in case you want to use some of it:

(...)

I balanced both the MiG-31 and the Arrow for Promotion II and to work with 1 normal cannon so far.
I made the MiG-17 into a overall crappy craft, but I increased the spawn count to 3. The MiG-29 is jack of all trades, master of none. The Mirage has a high reload time, but also high damage and is faster than the X-Com MiG and the Phantom is a cannon craft with low range, low damage but constant fire.

Umm... What really hits me is that planes have absurd ranges in your model. I can't gauge it very precisely without actually modding it in, but the MiG is probably intercontinental.

As for the speed changes, I'm afraid I'd be eaten alive with these speed changes, but I'll think about it.

The 'Lost Alien Ship Data Analysis' says we have no hope of developing a sufficient tech base for replicating this any time soon. Not X-Com, not the world governments, not the Illuminati Council, not MAGMA, not the Syndicate, nobody. So I imagine they tried and concluded that alien hand-me-downs and tech derived from those were better for their shadow ops than trying to work with Mrrshan propulsion systems (or Gnolam, or whoever these bat critters are :) ), speedrun a few centuries of tech base development and get who knows what kind of social side effects to go with it.

Yes, pretty much. It does not mean that Mrrshan ships (yes, it's the cat people) can't be retroengineered, only that Ethereal tech is more advanced and more readily available, so why bother.

AFAIK, the 'psychonaut' bit is entirely fan fiction. The Goldhawk game had no substance (ab)use that I can recall, not even non-health medikit charges.

It's just a joke. Well, maybe a bit of a jab. :P

For the Hacienda, the lack of a clear path for the AI to close does play havoc with enemy movements from time to time. I've played the map maybe 5 times and after the first, it became clear that the AI didn't really know how to send troops to the parapets, aside from the few that start there, and if I didn't punch a hole in the wall for them to escape, I could lob explosives over into the courtyard and start the morale failure cascade before I'd even breached the gate. After that, most of the enemies units in the main building would congregate in the hallway leading to the front door, making them once again subject to gas and grenades. Overall, I think it is a good mission, it only runs into some trouble once you've seen it enough to exploit the AI behavior on it.

Yeah, the AI doesn't always do well in situations other than what we have in vanilla (ships and terror sites), especially when such advanced concepts as "defense walls" are involved. I did what I could with the routes...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 27, 2022, 06:11:50 pm
Umm... What really hits me is that planes have absurd ranges in your model. I can't gauge it very precisely without actually modding it in, but the MiG is probably intercontinental.

Whoops, my bad. Good catch! I accidentally gave you the debug values I used for easier testing. I think fuelMax of 550 for the MiG and 600 for the Arrow would be good.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on December 27, 2022, 11:13:45 pm
Whoops, my bad. Good catch! I accidentally gave you the debug values I used for easier testing. I think fuelMax of 550 for the MiG and 600 for the Arrow would be good.

Yeah, that's different. :)
Thanks, but I still need to approach the entire model as a whole... Because everything is interconnected... I'll keep your suggestions in mind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: RolandVasko on December 28, 2022, 04:32:16 pm
yaya!  new releases! (boths) :D

wish luck and only best events in new year! to all


btw.just 1suggestion for vehicles:

car - Alfa Romeo 156 GT  (or 159 even)   :-* :P yap, it isnt just "car", but it´s cat-car, haha!
https://www.google.com/search?q=Alfa+Romeo+156+GT&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=2N9R0-q8S8UpdM&imgdii=ngQUL8Go85m5GM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/79N8Q4SKT1g/hqdefault.jpg)
(https://www.drive.gr/sites/default/files/node-files/photos/news/2019/11/alfa_romeo_gta_used_main.jpg)

airplane - SR-72 DarkStar  ( M7+ hi-Altitude Strategic SpyPlane (well, possible as in strato-bomber, /missiles carrier - launcher, possible too)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on December 28, 2022, 04:48:10 pm
Yeah, that's different. :)
Thanks, but I still need to approach the entire model as a whole... Because everything is interconnected... I'll keep your suggestions in mind.

Let me know if you need any help with testing!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on January 03, 2023, 10:49:16 am
I've been thinking about the relative lack of "Files" in the mod, and about how more espionage or investigation style missions might be incorporated within the limits of the X-COM Engine. Here are some ideas I thought I'd share:

#1) "Evidence Interception" - Using the time limit mechanic of the crop circles you could create a mission without any enemies.* Limited to a civilian vehicle the agents have to explore the area which is littered with various objects, find what they think is most important, and haul it back to the escape vehicle before authorities show up.

*If the game engine requires enemies, an unshakable enemy hidden in an inaccessible location would get the job done.

You might vary up the score possibilities by having one particular item that - if you leave without it - you suffer a point penalty. Or alternatively taking certain useful items (like briefcases of cash) could offer an early game temptation at the cost of score.

One interesting possibility would be raiding a police warehouse, where the time limit is represented by hostile police units showing up as "Reinforcements" - which obviously you get penalized for killing should you end up in a shootout.


#2) "Deep Cover Operation" - Using the camouflage mechanic we could potentially emulate an actual disguise by making the agent essentially invisible to the enemies. If it is possible to alter the visibility levels dynamically, certain actions might reduce the effectiveness of the "camouflage" which represents the enemy becoming suspicious of your actions.

Kind of riffing off the "Find the Item" style mission I described above, if picking up an item would "Drop the Disguise" you could create an interesting scenario where the player has to figure out where to position their agents for the best chance at escaping once their cover is blown, etc.

Anyhow - these were just two ideas I had. This mod has always pushed the limits of what I imagined XCOM could do, and finding new ways to explore the investigative side of the concept would be cool as hell. (Or maybe I just want undercover jobs that cannot be solved by hitting a cultist with a wrench.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 03, 2023, 05:11:30 pm
I've been thinking about the relative lack of "Files" in the mod, and about how more espionage or investigation style missions might be incorporated within the limits of the X-COM Engine. Here are some ideas I thought I'd share:

#1) "Evidence Interception" - Using the time limit mechanic of the crop circles you could create a mission without any enemies.* Limited to a civilian vehicle the agents have to explore the area which is littered with various objects, find what they think is most important, and haul it back to the escape vehicle before authorities show up.

*If the game engine requires enemies, an unshakable enemy hidden in an inaccessible location would get the job done.

You might vary up the score possibilities by having one particular item that - if you leave without it - you suffer a point penalty. Or alternatively taking certain useful items (like briefcases of cash) could offer an early game temptation at the cost of score.

One interesting possibility would be raiding a police warehouse, where the time limit is represented by hostile police units showing up as "Reinforcements" - which obviously you get penalized for killing should you end up in a shootout.


#2) "Deep Cover Operation" - Using the camouflage mechanic we could potentially emulate an actual disguise by making the agent essentially invisible to the enemies. If it is possible to alter the visibility levels dynamically, certain actions might reduce the effectiveness of the "camouflage" which represents the enemy becoming suspicious of your actions.

Kind of riffing off the "Find the Item" style mission I described above, if picking up an item would "Drop the Disguise" you could create an interesting scenario where the player has to figure out where to position their agents for the best chance at escaping once their cover is blown, etc.

Anyhow - these were just two ideas I had. This mod has always pushed the limits of what I imagined XCOM could do, and finding new ways to explore the investigative side of the concept would be cool as hell. (Or maybe I just want undercover jobs that cannot be solved by hitting a cultist with a wrench.)


Lets take this dude to the team.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on January 04, 2023, 10:46:10 pm
I've been thinking about the relative lack of "Files" in the mod, and about how more espionage or investigation style missions might be incorporated within the limits of the X-COM Engine. Here are some ideas I thought I'd share:

Just wanted to say, I love all your suggestions, really great ideas!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 05, 2023, 02:57:24 am
I don't think trying to force OXC(E) into what it is not - a stealth game, or even a game with stealth - is a terribly inspired idea.

OTOH, I too would appreciate more 'Files' and the first idea is pretty good. For starters, it'd be enough to have the currently rather lackluster investigation missions have
One could certainly expand the loot to include more mystery research, but that'd take some considerable planning to integrate into the rest of the game. New graphics, too, most likely.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on January 05, 2023, 05:14:52 am
I'd love me some more counter-action in some way or form in these years/missions by the MiB. Or more MiB conflict in general, and knee deeper with them during Alien Invasion phase.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 05, 2023, 06:58:21 am
Forgive my criticism... But I like any of the suggestions listed above more than all the new haunted missions from the latest patch. There is no new architecture in the new haunted missions, the missions are always gloomy, and the fight against the enemy is chaotic. All this whistling does not fit well with the ent of the game. I've played all the variants of the new haunted missions 1-2 times, and now I always miss them. They are boring and bring only frustration. This is unfortunate content in my opinion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 05, 2023, 11:54:26 am
I've been thinking about the relative lack of "Files" in the mod, and about how more espionage or investigation style missions might be incorporated within the limits of the X-COM Engine. Here are some ideas I thought I'd share:

#1) "Evidence Interception" - Using the time limit mechanic of the crop circles you could create a mission without any enemies.* Limited to a civilian vehicle the agents have to explore the area which is littered with various objects, find what they think is most important, and haul it back to the escape vehicle before authorities show up.

*If the game engine requires enemies, an unshakable enemy hidden in an inaccessible location would get the job done.

You might vary up the score possibilities by having one particular item that - if you leave without it - you suffer a point penalty. Or alternatively taking certain useful items (like briefcases of cash) could offer an early game temptation at the cost of score.

One interesting possibility would be raiding a police warehouse, where the time limit is represented by hostile police units showing up as "Reinforcements" - which obviously you get penalized for killing should you end up in a shootout.

I had many similar ideas, not realized due to what the engine allowed back then. Now it would be easier to do (albeit still hacky; see the "an unshakable enemy hidden in an inaccessible location" clause), but I think having a whole mission with a battle map would be awkward. I'd rather have a feature where you simply fly there and there's a popup with description, like an event; but I don't think this is viable. This is why I made some events.

#2) "Deep Cover Operation" - Using the camouflage mechanic we could potentially emulate an actual disguise by making the agent essentially invisible to the enemies. If it is possible to alter the visibility levels dynamically, certain actions might reduce the effectiveness of the "camouflage" which represents the enemy becoming suspicious of your actions.

Kind of riffing off the "Find the Item" style mission I described above, if picking up an item would "Drop the Disguise" you could create an interesting scenario where the player has to figure out where to position their agents for the best chance at escaping once their cover is blown, etc.

Anyhow - these were just two ideas I had. This mod has always pushed the limits of what I imagined XCOM could do, and finding new ways to explore the investigative side of the concept would be cool as hell. (Or maybe I just want undercover jobs that cannot be solved by hitting a cultist with a wrench.)

This would be rather hard to do well in OXCE.

Perhaps you would be interested in trying Finnik's mod "From the Ashes". It uses a custom OXCE with various unique stealth/investigation mechanics.

I'd love me some more counter-action in some way or form in these years/missions by the MiB. Or more MiB conflict in general, and knee deeper with them during Alien Invasion phase.

Yes, I plan to develop their arc further and focus on them more as a major enemy (perhaps even more than Cydonia).

Forgive my criticism... But I like any of the suggestions listed above more than all the new haunted missions from the latest patch. There is no new architecture in the new haunted missions, the missions are always gloomy, and the fight against the enemy is chaotic. All this whistling does not fit well with the ent of the game. I've played all the variants of the new haunted missions 1-2 times, and now I always miss them. They are boring and bring only frustration. This is unfortunate content in my opinion.

Criticism accepted.

Looks like you simply didn't like this entire arc's concept. This is fine; it has always been intended as a wacky side gig with different rules. It's perfectly okay to ignore it.
When I find the time to play seriously, I may tweak this further.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 05, 2023, 09:13:04 pm
I thought of a few myself.
I'm on my second round of playing this game and would love a way to speed up research.

- purchasing "Research redemption tokens".  Would be put to use for the Cost/spent hours in research time. Could make them fairly expensive too so it would not be abused. Example 1k per hour.
- Maybe even applying this same method towards score. Buying score points.

The major flaw I encountered was losing this game due to low score. The game is difficult enough without having to worry about this. But can't be totally excluded. That is why purchasing score points, research points and possibly even manufacturing points (to speed up manufacturing) might be worth exploring.

All 3 of these things can be accomplished editing normal saved game files. I can not see the difficulty in implementing it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 05, 2023, 09:15:06 pm

All 3 of these things can be accomplished editing normal saved game files. I can not see the difficulty in implementing it.

This coming from a guy who has never made a mod in his life  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: SBBurzmali on January 05, 2023, 10:20:23 pm
I thought of a few myself.
I'm on my second round of playing this game and would love a way to speed up research.

- purchasing "Research redemption tokens".  Would be put to use for the Cost/spent hours in research time. Could make them fairly expensive too so it would not be abused. Example 1k per hour.
- Maybe even applying this same method towards score. Buying score points.

The major flaw I encountered was losing this game due to low score. The game is difficult enough without having to worry about this. But can't be totally excluded. That is why purchasing score points, research points and possibly even manufacturing points (to speed up manufacturing) might be worth exploring.

All 3 of these things can be accomplished editing normal saved game files. I can not see the difficulty in implementing it.
The issue is that money is quite busted at the moment, so not an ideal time to implement game defining features on top of the..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 05, 2023, 11:09:44 pm
The issue is that money is quite busted at the moment, so not an ideal time to implement game defining features on top of the..

Not sure I understand ? For you personally you mean ?

I find after year 1, you have money to play with and by the time the invasion begins, you should have even more.
This would allow late game research to be sped up.

It literally took me months and months to research all the weapon acquisitions (and ability to build/buy), while then still trying to research bigger projects like interrogations, specialty weapons.

I actually enjoyed it because it lengthened the game a bit but in the meantime doing the same type missions over and over again (just waiting for big research to open up) led me to building more and more research facility's. Which can also be tedious at times.

A good example is I am Jan 1997 (1 month into the game). I have 2 million dollars and can not do anything with it except buy Glocks and shotgun ammo.

Everyone plays this game a bit different. Some build 5 bases, some only 2. There never seems to be one shoe that fits all here. Hence my suggestion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Moth_Of_Decay on January 05, 2023, 11:23:07 pm
I had many similar ideas, not realized due to what the engine allowed back then. Now it would be easier to do (albeit still hacky; see the "an unshakable enemy hidden in an inaccessible location" clause), but I think having a whole mission with a battle map would be awkward. I'd rather have a fe3ature where you simply fly there and there's a popup with description, like an event; but I don't think this is viable. This is why I made some events.

Would it be cool with you if I start a thread theory-crafting new mission ideas? I think exploring various gimmicky ideas would be an interesting and potentially fruitful discussion, but I don't want to clog up this thread or come off as a backseat dev.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 05, 2023, 11:37:38 pm
purchasing ...
Since both research and manufacture are both effected purely by spending money on personnel, facilities and new bases, what you're essentially asking for is not the ability to 'buy' research (because that already exists), but to do so on the cheap. Not a fan.

If you're waiting for research due to projects taking time to complete, chances are you're putting too few people on these projects. Late game research is sped up by building every research facility under the sun in multiple bases. If you're using only two bases, you're essentially gimping your progress for... convenience? Simplicity? I don't think the mod should bend over backwards so that 'two-base runs' are viable for anyone but the most hardcore players seeking a challenge.

Basically, this seems like a request for an easier 'difficulty level', and I think it'd be more elegantly solved by making a submod that reduces project times, personnel costs and facility construction times. Maybe allow for more people to be stuffed into one facility. A 1000-scientist workshop, and each of them costs 1K, or something. :) Not "I fucked up, can I buy myself out of this?"

The score bit is the only thing you really can't buy, and I for one appreciate that you actually have to get your ducks in a row to succeed and that there are fail states in the strategy layer. Perhaps some of the mission tedium could be short-circuited in certain ways - possibly ask OXCE devs for a Xenonauts-style 'bomb the UFO' for cash and score but no loot. Or more 'intercept this to avoid the mission' bits.

There never seems to be one shoe that fits all here.
Trying to make a game (or mod) that pleases everyone frequently leads to pleasing no-one. :(


OTOH, you can safely ignore anything I say. Because I can and will change or circumvent the mod if it gets on my nerves, instead of trying to tough it out. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 06, 2023, 01:49:45 am
Since both research and manufacture are both effected purely by spending money on personnel, facilities and new bases, what you're essentially asking for is not the ability to 'buy' research (because that already exists), but to do so on the cheap. Not a fan.

If you're waiting for research due to projects taking time to complete, chances are you're putting too few people on these projects. Late game research is sped up by building every research facility under the sun in multiple bases. If you're using only two bases, you're essentially gimping your progress for... convenience? Simplicity? I don't think the mod should bend over backwards so that 'two-base runs' are viable for anyone but the most hardcore players seeking a challenge.

Basically, this seems like a request for an easier 'difficulty level', and I think it'd be more elegantly solved by making a submod that reduces project times, personnel costs and facility construction times. Maybe allow for more people to be stuffed into one facility. A 1000-scientist workshop, and each of them costs 1K, or something. :) Not "I fucked up, can I buy myself out of this?"

The score bit is the only thing you really can't buy, and I for one appreciate that you actually have to get your ducks in a row to succeed and that there are fail states in the strategy layer. Perhaps some of the mission tedium could be short-circuited in certain ways - possibly ask OXCE devs for a Xenonauts-style 'bomb the UFO' for cash and score but no loot. Or more 'intercept this to avoid the mission' bits.
Trying to make a game (or mod) that pleases everyone frequently leads to pleasing no-one. :(


OTOH, you can safely ignore anything I say. Because I can and will change or circumvent the mod if it gets on my nerves, instead of trying to tough it out. :P

More bases requires more soldiers and arguably more experienced soldiers. Unless you plan on losing a slew of newbies each base attack.
Even the best plasma defenses, fusion ball, etc. is not 100% guaranteed to stop base attacks.

Base attacks in XCF are also messy. These guys love to blow up all kinds of shit. They focus on crippling your facility's as the last few hide.
That means when the crying is done, you're left rebuilding new facility's from scratch. Not like in Vanilla when the Aliens were only coming to collect warm bodies.

So I agree having more bases is the way to go, it just requires better soldiers, better defenses and more babysitting.
Outsourcing research, manufacturing and score isn't all that bad in my opinion. But as I said, everyone plays differently. I don't play like you and you wont play like me. I think that is one of the attractions of the game honestly.


OTOH, you can safely ignore anything I say. Because I can and will change or circumvent the mod if it gets on my nerves, instead of trying to tough it out. :P

 ;D

Same here my friend
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 06, 2023, 08:00:19 am
More bases requires more soldiers and arguably more experienced soldiers. Unless you plan on losing a slew of newbies each base attack.
Not sure what's wrong with that. :P

You can also have more tanks (repairable unless vaporised) and throw in some transformations to bulk up the newbies. And build your research bases away from areas of UFO activity and not use them for interception until your defences are up. Build Mind Shields as well.

Even the best plasma defenses, fusion ball, etc. is not 100% guaranteed to stop base attacks.
No, but 3 Fusion Ball Defences and a Grav Shield are pretty damn near.


I don't really know why 'lessAliensDuringBaseDefense' got disabled - the changelog says "Shooting at UFOs no longer decreases their crews (for lore reasons)" yet I don't recall any discussion about those - but you can also re-enable that. Then the aliens get to the 'as the last few hide' phase a lot quicker.


Edit: Come to think of it, maybe Solarius could also take a clue from Reaver (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10886.msg150892.html#msg150892) and play around with UFO base detection radii and the mind shield formula?

Edit2: Now manufacturing, that indeed has some pretty weird costs sometimes. But that isn't really solved by adding extra sources of manufacturing points.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 06, 2023, 08:58:34 am
This is just laziness on every level. You can just lose the base and rebuild it if you're too lazy to defend it, attacks are not that often.

And you aren't even required to do that in the first place. There's enough research power in a single base to quickly cover important topics and the rest is either gated or just fluff.

All that extra research would do for you is make you research fluff faster.

I actually suspect that limited scientist count is designed in to prevent inexperienced commanders from staffing 200 scientists and eat themselves from house and home while being too stubborn to fire them.

I think what would be helpful is a feature that would help you to differ important topics from fluff. Like, basic color coding. For example, green - stuff leading to new medkits, blue - crafts, black - promotions, etc. Or its functional equivalent, piratez-style exclamation marks.
But still, not helpful enough for the amount of work it would take to implement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 06, 2023, 09:14:51 am
I am surprised to read that the bases need air defense. With the proper construction of the base, the protection of the base is always an easy walk. Base defense is not a challenge, it is a safe pumping of soldiers and an easy hunt for enemy commanders.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 06, 2023, 09:20:09 am
With the proper construction of the base...
Not always possible once the base grows large enough. I have too many useful things to build in there instead of setting up kill corridors and automated defence turrets. And aliens can still wreck some base modules if a Blaster goes awry.

Not to mention Ethereal attacks. Nothing 'safe' about those unless you screen every single soldier everywhere.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 06, 2023, 09:47:11 am
Not always possible once the base grows large enough. I have too many useful things to build in there instead of setting up kill corridors and automated defence turrets. And aliens can still wreck some base modules if a Blaster goes awry.

Not to mention Ethereal attacks. Nothing 'safe' about those unless you screen every single soldier everywhere.
When the base becomes large, this is an excuse to build another base. I have a separate base at war with ethereals, where I send agents with high psi. They only attack her. No problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 06, 2023, 09:54:52 am
Sadly, I cannot build a 9th base. All the others are already full, or becoming full. :(

And it's nice that the Ethereals are cooperating with you, but there's nothing preventing them from doing a random scan and happening upon a base that's not prepared. Not particularly likely, of course, since retaliations aren't that common and Ethereal ones even less so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 06, 2023, 10:48:11 am
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I am surprised to read that the bases need air defense.
Main bases don't. Secondary research, manufacturing and radar bases - why not? Definitely less effort to build some defenses than to buy dogs, rookies and prepare equipment for them.

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With the proper construction of the base, the protection of the base is always an easy walk.
Depends on the enemy. Sectopods at promo 2-3 tech can pose significant challenge for inexperienced commander. I think that's mostly removed now, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 06, 2023, 12:24:00 pm
You guys bring up some good points. Juku's Tank suggestion is also something I haven't explored enough (those and A.I. units). I do rely on tanks and A.I. units but not as heavily as I probably should. This game is kind of designed to exploit certain weaponry. Maybe I have played it more like vanilla than I should which is nearly impossible when you think about it.

However, that's just my perspective and those are the things I've experienced anyway.

If there is anything I have learned from this forum it is... Be a bit suborn but listen and trust the people here. You are all very smart and I've learned a lot from you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 06, 2023, 03:57:09 pm
Sadly, I cannot build a 9th base. All the others are already full, or becoming full. :(

And it's nice that the Ethereals are cooperating with you, but there's nothing preventing them from doing a random scan and happening upon a base that's not prepared. Not particularly likely, of course, since retaliations aren't that common and Ethereal ones even less so.
This already looks like a sort of deviation. 9 full bases? I have 6, of which only one is built up not strong enough for defense due to the fact that there are too many things built on it. If I were to play again, I would make do with four maximally protected bases.

Between 2 and 3 promos, my bases were attacked several times by cults when there were only 2 trainees on the defensive. And each time it was just a meat grinder in a few moves, the surrender of a whole bunch and a very effective pumping of fighters.
Sectopods are already a post-invasion game. I had a mutant attack at an early stage of the invasion. There were only 6 agents on the base. The building and shrapnel were very much affected here. But it was necessary to rebuild half of the base, because the fighting unfolded in earnest.
I remind you. I play the Ironman.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 06, 2023, 04:33:44 pm
8 bases, since that's the limit. I never said they're undermanned, three are full strike bases with the latest tech and high-tier troopers, and all the rest have some sort of garrison.

How do you have global radar, interception and timely strike team transport with only four bases? Especially before the invasion starts.

Between 2 and 3 promos, my bases were attacked several times by cults...
I've never gotten a cult to attack me. Probably because I kill manors about as quickly as they spawn. I don't think there are any other sources of cult retaliation?

Anyway, cult base assaults are an entirely different ball game from alien base attacks.

I had a mutant attack at an early stage of the invasion.
What's that? Dagonites?

I remind you. I play the Ironman.
How is he doing against you? :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 06, 2023, 05:03:45 pm
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I've never gotten a cult to attack me. Probably because I kill manors about as quickly as they spawn. I don't think there are any other sources of cult retaliation?
Same, didn't get attacked by a cult once (or anyone up to year 4, really). I think it's about intercepting their strike crafts. If you have some air game, they won't ever get to you. Can't intercept battleship at full speed, sadly.

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The building and shrapnel were very much affected here. But it was necessary to rebuild half of the base, because the fighting unfolded in earnest.
Doesn't sound like an "easy" defense.

But overall, yeah, 4-6 experienced guys is plenty against most invaders.
Or most post-invasion encounters, really.

Maybe next time I'll try playing 3-man teams or something. Commend stacking really allows you to create monstrosities.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 06, 2023, 08:04:12 pm
8 bases, since that's the limit. I never said they're undermanned, three are full strike bases with the latest tech and high-tier troopers, and all the rest have some sort of garrison.

How do you have global radar, interception and timely strike team transport with only four bases? Especially before the invasion starts.
I've never gotten a cult to attack me. Probably because I kill manors about as quickly as they spawn. I don't think there are any other sources of cult retaliation?

Anyway, cult base assaults are an entirely different ball game from alien base attacks.
What's that? Dagonites?
How is he doing against you? :P

))))))
Difficulties of machine translation. Yes, my experience indicates that 4 bases is an ascetic acceptable option. 3 bases just above the equator in Europe, China and North America, and one factory base in Antarctica. This should be more than enough. Uncovered areas are enough to check with a dark star once a month.

On the difficulty of the Iron man manor, these are very difficult missions. Before the appearance of the blue ttb, I could not cope with the lotus manor and the red dawn manor.

Mutants = mutons. I didn't notice the autocorrect.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 06, 2023, 08:11:12 pm
Same, didn't get attacked by a cult once (or anyone up to year 4, really). I think it's about intercepting their strike crafts. If you have some air game, they won't ever get to you. Can't intercept battleship at full speed, sadly.
Doesn't sound like an "easy" defense.

But overall, yeah, 4-6 experienced guys is plenty against most invaders.
Or most post-invasion encounters, really.

Maybe next time I'll try playing 3-man teams or something. Commend stacking really allows you to create monstrosities.

When you play on the complexity of iron man, you are ready for terrible dramas and any consequences. When a huge crowd of a wide variety of mutants attacks your base, and only 6 fighters from the defenders, half of whom cannot hold a minigun in their hands, then any victory already seems to be an excellent result. And if all 6 fighters survive, then yes. I think the battle was easy. Even if the block of the base in which I arranged the meat grinder was wiped off the face of the earth, and the entire branch of the base behind this block was destroyed. It's not a big deal. The main thing is that it is still possible to carry out departures from this center and base. The rest is nothing. We will rebuild.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 06, 2023, 08:38:10 pm
Yeah, but surviving and being able to continue and rebuild is really not what comes to mind when someone says 'easy'. :)

Yes, my experience indicates that 4 bases is an ascetic acceptable option. 3 bases just above the equator in Europe, China and North America, and one factory base in Antarctica. This should be more than enough. Uncovered areas are enough to check with a dark star once a month.
That still leaves well over half of the globe without radar coverage, and without the ability to get to landed UFOs before they take off unless you get lucky or some advanced craft. Even the Kitsune will need some luck unless you spot the aliens early and manage to not run out of fuel or into HKs while following them.

I guess it's workable in that it you can make progress, but it's not really doing your job of defending the Earth properly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 06, 2023, 09:11:03 pm
On the difficulty of the Iron man manor, these are very difficult missions. Before the appearance of the blue ttb, I could not cope with the lotus manor and the red dawn manor.
You can steamroll lotus manors with bio-exo suits and 10+ man teams on ironman superhuman. The suits have plenty of cutting resists to screw up ninjas.
Red dawn and dagon can be taken with regular armor, with maybe 1-2 accidental casualties from gillmen/jarhead one-shots.
Now Exalt does feels the most problematic without heavy suits due to numerous grenadiers. But you can rush into buildings and camp inside them just fine.
The most I hate about manors is that they usually can't be quickly dealt with and linger for at least 20 turns. Especially upgraded ones, with their reinforcements.

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When you play on the complexity of iron man, you are ready for terrible dramas and any consequences.
There's drama but not much consequences really. Post-invasion there's just infinite money so you can rebuild bases from scratch each month. Pre-invasion it's just ludicrously easy to repel attackers.

Also having just 6 guys on the defensive doesn't exactly spell "ready" for me. I usually have at least like 10 dogs and 10 rookies, train them, then rotate into the main base to replace casualties. Soldiers and dogs are dirt cheap compared to scientists anyway.

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That still leaves well over half of the globe without radar coverage, and without the ability to get to landed UFOs before they take off unless you get lucky or some advanced craft.
If 6 bases give almost full coverage of the globe, how come 4 + dark star leave "over a half" without radar coverage? Something doesn't add!

I agree with Akamashi, 4 or even less bases should be plenty. After you get enough alien engineers, you skip almost every uninteresting encounter anyway.
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but it's not really doing your job of defending the Earth properly.
Before I finished my latest campaign I was doing my job so unproperly, there were somewhat 25 alien bases on the globe and about 10 countries left the council. And they still paid me some millions to "fight" the aliens :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 06, 2023, 09:50:50 pm
You can steamroll lotus manors with bio-exo suits and 10+ man teams on ironman superhuman. The suits have plenty of cutting resists to screw up ninjas.
But Ninjas and their friends also have guns, while Bio-Exo has no kinetic resistance. Not to mention balls of flaming plasma and, uh, fire. I doubt it's as game-changing as heavy tac suits vs regular cultist firearms. All it does is defend from sudden knives in the face.

If 6 bases give almost full coverage of the globe, how come 4 + dark star leave "over a half" without radar coverage?
I have eight, and there are sizeable parts of three oceans not covered, plus some bits of the Arctic. How you manage to get everything with six, I don't know. I do use slightly different radar ranges, but 2500 vs 2577 for big radars shouldn't make a difference. And if you halve that, that's half of 'mostly covered' gone, even if there was some overlap.

Six bases covers six out of seven continents, but UFOs can spawn pretty much anywhere, and you need your warning as early as possible unless you want to let some UFOs slip through or get shot down. Which you apparently do?

I agree with Akamashi, 4 or even less bases should be plenty. After you get enough alien engineers, you skip almost every uninteresting encounter anyway.
You do, I don't. The Greys don't get to molest Earth bovines on my watch! :D

You also can't manufacture anything in bulk with so few bases, especially with three of them being strike bases. And I want every team to have at least four of everything. :-[

Before I finished my latest campaign I was doing my job so unproperly, there were somewhat 25 alien bases on the globe and about 10 countries left the council. And they still paid me some millions to "fight" the aliens
Well, I would be ashamed if my campaign came to that. YMMV.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 06, 2023, 10:44:08 pm
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But Ninjas and their friends also have guns, while Bio-Exo has no kinetic resistance. Not to mention balls of flaming plasma and, uh, fire. I doubt it's as game-changing as heavy tac suits vs regular cultist firearms. All it does is defend from sudden knives in the face.

Well, I cleared 4 or 5 lotus manors in bio-exos without a single casualty.
Bio-exos protect against your own gas, which you should use against ninjas. Or any human enemies, really. But it works just fine with rifles and smoke.

Kinetics: Lotus have no hard-hitting snipers like red dawn, so kinetics aren't one-shots. If using smoke, you mostly don't even get hit. And if you do, just rotate troops.
Fire: Same as above. Also, bio-exo has incendiary resist.
Plasma: Usually one-shots, but is somewhat inaccurate and requires Witch to be in 13 tiles range. She's usually dead before she gets there.
Knives: Easily the most dangerous stuff from the bunch. Assassins are almost invisible, can't always be detected even with aggressive scouting, throw multiple accurate, very damaging knives from up close or go for melee which is fatal.

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Six bases covers six out of seven continents, but UFOs can spawn pretty much anywhere, and you need your warning as early as possible unless you want to let some UFOs slip through or get shot down.
If I imagine globe as a cube with 6 faces, 6 big radar bases in centers of those faces should give like 95% coverage.

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Which you apparently do?
You have to ignore some flyby strikers or battleships anyway. Why would I care about a single slipping scout or something?

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You also can't manufacture anything in bulk with so few bases, especially with three of them being strike bases. And I want every team to have at least four of everything.
Well that's just someone's OCD speaking.

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Well, I would be ashamed if my campaign came to that. YMMV.
We'll see. When there's nothing to be gained from encounter, like new researches or money that you don't ever need, or exp, and the alien menace just keeps growing, why bother?




Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 07, 2023, 11:23:10 am
Kinetics: Lotus have no hard-hitting snipers like red dawn, so kinetics aren't one-shots. If using smoke, you mostly don't even get hit.
Well, that's not really a feature of the armour, is it?

Also, Witches with Arasakas say "Hi!". About 70% as bad as SVDs, so can still one-shot you if the RNG doesn't like you that day.

But, yeah, there's nowhere near Red Dawn level of proliferation of hard-hitting kinetics.

Bio-exos protect against your own gas, which you should use against ninjas.
50% isn't quite total protection.


But yeah, you're right. I was mentally comparing Bio-Exo to Heavy Tac Suits, which work roughly as well against sudden knife death (20 vs 12 damage on average), but shut down all the kinetics. They're Promo III material, though, unlike Bio-Exo suits.

If I imagine globe as a cube with 6 faces, 6 big radar bases in centers of those faces should give like 95% coverage.
Nowhere near that, because a) there are oceans in inconvenient places and b) you want your bases to cover landmasses first, since that's where most activity happens.

I just tried to do this '6 faces' rather randomly, and was left with a giant continent-sized hole and at least another 10% in gaps. See for yourself.

You have to ignore some flyby strikers or battleships anyway. Why would I care about a single slipping scout or something?
No, I want all the landings, because that's where I can actually try to compete. As you say, intercepting everything isn't really possible until lategame. And that requires early warning, since radars are not infallible and landing windows are something like 2x4 hours, tops.

Well that's just someone's OCD speaking.
;D

When there's nothing to be gained from encounter, like new researches or money that you don't ever need, or exp, and the alien menace just keeps growing, why bother?
I'm permanently over my budget due to all that manufacturing. Every plasma gun for the Black Grey Market counts!

And these aliens game here to mess with us, I'm getting each and every one of them I can. I play this mod to shoot aliens in the face, not to win with least effort expended.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 07, 2023, 12:21:26 pm
You can steamroll lotus manors with bio-exo suits and 10+ man teams on ironman superhuman. The suits have plenty of cutting resists to screw up ninjas.
Red dawn and dagon can be taken with regular armor, with maybe 1-2 accidental casualties from gillmen/jarhead one-shots.
Now Exalt does feels the most problematic without heavy suits due to numerous grenadiers. But you can rush into buildings and camp inside them just fine.
The most I hate about manors is that they usually can't be quickly dealt with and linger for at least 20 turns. Especially upgraded ones, with their reinforcements.
There's drama but not much consequences really. Post-invasion there's just infinite money so you can rebuild bases from scratch each month. Pre-invasion it's just ludicrously easy to repel attackers.

Also having just 6 guys on the defensive doesn't exactly spell "ready" for me. I usually have at least like 10 dogs and 10 rookies, train them, then rotate into the main base to replace casualties. Soldiers and dogs are dirt cheap compared to scientists anyway.
If 6 bases give almost full coverage of the globe, how come 4 + dark star leave "over a half" without radar coverage? Something doesn't add!

I agree with Akamashi, 4 or even less bases should be plenty. After you get enough alien engineers, you skip almost every uninteresting encounter anyway.Before I finished my latest campaign I was doing my job so unproperly, there were somewhat 25 alien bases on the globe and about 10 countries left the council. And they still paid me some millions to "fight" the aliens :D

About the bio suite, it's not even clear if it's a joke or serious. My experience of storming manors between 2 and 3 promos... Only the tactics of running into the house and playing open-close the door work. But the doors should also be guarded by dogs on the initiative, and all fighters should have miniguns and first aid kits. If there is no house next to the respawn, we immediately retreat. By cults. This tactic works easily against Dagon and Exalt. There are no problems with them at all. Lotus - there are always a lot of breakthroughs and injuries. Without blue TTBs, it is unjustified to go to the lotus. It is easier to close the lotus cult before many manars have appeared, because their headquarters is the easiest of all. Also about the final mission of the red dawn.

And about 4 bases and covering the globe with radars. Firstly, I don't see much point in covering the water with radars. And secondly, it doesn't work the way you think. Even if you cover only 50% of the sushi with radars, you will detect 95% of the plates. And flying out on each one is also a rather deviant tactic. Personally, I drown 95% of the plates in the sea.

Battleships and other saucers with turrets can still be stormed only with delta radiation research and heavy weapons. There is only to put up with it, there is nothing you can do about it. I lost three countries like that (guess which ones?)) In this game, I got all this only after 4 years of playing. If I were starting over, I would have gotten it all in the first six months after the invasion.

If you play with save loads, then all this ceases to be a problem. You can take battleships with your bare hands as trainees without losses.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 07, 2023, 01:46:21 pm
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Well, that's not really a feature of the armour, is it?
Yes, but that means kinetics shouldn't be an issue.

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Also, Witches with Arasakas say "Hi!". About 70% as bad as SVDs, so can still one-shot you if the RNG doesn't like you that day.
They literally can't if you have 70+ health, and practically won't if you have 65+ health. Which you should.
Now, how about those knives with ~56 power? Max damage to heavy tac's side can be 65, about the same as arasaka, but knives are thrown in a succession. And then there's katana with 95 power...

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50% isn't quite total protection.
But it's not 50%, it's 0%, so total protection. Gas damage type is choke.

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I just tried to do this '6 faces' rather randomly, and was left with a giant continent-sized hole and at least another 10% in gaps. See for yourself.
I see there's much overlap between radars, so you can cover that giant hole. And then there's maybe 10%, maybe 5% in gaps, it's hard to tell exactly. They're further decreased when you build hyperwave decoder. Also detection chance is just 20%, so you can as well just build extra radars.
Then again, sure, you can roll with 7 bases, they aren't harder to defend and don't cost too much, they just are not necessary.

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And that requires early warning, since radars are not infallible and landing windows are something like 2x4 hours, tops.
I think the main problem with these windows are that UFOs land at night, not that you can't detect them.

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And these aliens game here to mess with us, I'm getting each and every one of them I can. I play this mod to shoot aliens in the face, not to win with least effort expended.
Well I certainly don't envy the arduous path ahead of you. My patience ran out on about first year post-invasion. But that's also was my second complete playthrough of XCF. If you really want to take down and assault every UFO up until landing on mars as you say, that's probably a year or two of IRL effort. Good luck!

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About the bio suite, it's not even clear if it's a joke or serious.
I'm serious, they're one of the easiest. You probably just had bad luck with them.

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Battleships and other saucers with turrets can still be stormed only with delta radiation research and heavy weapons. There is only to put up with it, there is nothing you can do about it. I lost three countries like that (guess which ones?)) In this game, I got all this only after 4 years of playing. If I were starting over, I would have gotten it all in the first six months after the invasion.
You lose countries no matter what you do, and no matter how many ships you take down or assault. It's just RNG script. It's been like this since vanilla.
So you don't even need to assault battleships in particular, I did it just once for fun and that's it. Same with terror ships. There's just not much to be gained from them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 07, 2023, 02:14:52 pm
Yes, but that means kinetics shouldn't be an issue.
They literally can't if you have 70+ health, and practically won't if you have 65+ health. Which you should.
Now, how about those knives with ~56 power? Max damage to heavy tac's side can be 65, about the same as arasaka, but knives are thrown in a succession. And then there's katana with 95 power...
But it's not 50%, it's 0%, so total protection. Gas damage type is choke.
I see there's much overlap between radars, so you can cover that giant hole. And then there's maybe 10%, maybe 5% in gaps, it's hard to tell exactly. They're further decreased when you build hyperwave decoder. Also detection chance is just 20%, so you can as well just build extra radars.
Then again, sure, you can roll with 7 bases, they aren't harder to defend and don't cost too much, they just are not necessary.
I think the main problem with these windows are that UFOs land at night, not that you can't detect them.
Well I certainly don't envy the arduous path ahead of you. My patience ran out on about first year post-invasion. But that's also was my second complete playthrough of XCF. If you really want to take down and assault every UFO up until landing on mars as you say, that's probably a year or two of IRL effort. Good luck!
I'm serious, they're one of the easiest. You probably just had bad luck with them.
You lose countries no matter what you do, and no matter how many ships you take down or assault. It's just RNG script. It's been like this since vanilla.
So you don't even need to assault battleships in particular, I did it just once for fun and that's it. Same with terror ships. There's just not much to be gained from them.
I disagree. The alien colonies in the files appear after the landing of a certain type of battleship. And only after that the country signs the pact. Since my tormentors have knocked down 100% of all the plates, no more alien colonies have appeared.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 07, 2023, 02:46:09 pm
Yes, but that means kinetics shouldn't be an issue.
Yeah, but that's a function of BL team composition and smokes, not any armour you may or may not wear.

They literally can't if you have 70+ health, and practically won't if you have 65+ health. Which you should.
That's true, but a solid veteran with 20 health left isn't much better than having been one-shot. He's probably bleeding out, too.

Now, how about those knives with ~56 power? Max damage to heavy tac can be 65, about the same as arasaka, but knives are thrown in a succession. And then there's katana with 95 power...
More like ~58. Knives have 130% armour effectiveness. Average is ~14, vs ~8 for the Arasaka. Bio-Exo has those at ~7 for knives and 28 for Arasakas, a much bigger difference.

Melee is always a crapshoot until very high armour values. Katanas will frequently kill you no matter what armour you're wearing. And Katana for an Assassin is 91 effective power, how did you get 95? That means an average of ~23 vs Bio-Exo and ~40 vs Tac Suits. ~22 if they hit you in the face. Not a gigantic difference, really.

But it's not 50%, it's 0%, so total protection. Gas damage type is choke.
Indeed. My bad. :-[



I do think you're right and Bio-Exo is actually better for BL missions than the Heavy Tac Suit, but the differences don't seem to be very big. Except for the choke resistance. That is indeed a gamechanger.

I see there's much overlap between radars, so you can cover that giant hole. And then there's maybe 10%, maybe 5% in gaps, it's hard to tell exactly. They're further decreased when you build hyperwave decoder. Also detection chance is just 20%, so you can as well just build extra radars.
The only base that has significant overlap and can be moved to mitigate this is in North America. And since I can't put it into the Pacific, there'll still be some overlap. Maybe 50% of the original. And in a pretty inconvenient location, trying to cover both of the Americas at once.

And no matter how you slice it, the non-covered area is not 5% or even 10% of the globe, i.e. 95% coverage with 6 bases.

Basically, I don't try to tile the Earth. I try to cover the continents where most of the action is, for both radar use and shortened aircraft range. Yes, maybe the 5% or 10% or whatever stragglers don't bother you. It does bother me as the commander supposedly in charge of defending the Earth against alien incursions. :)

Building extra radars means using base slots I have other uses for. One radar get both advance warning and covers any potential sneakiness going on outside radar range.

Then again, sure, you can roll with 7 bases, they aren't harder to defend and don't cost too much, they just are not necessary.
So you're saying my super-secret Elerium storage and 'two hundred aliens in containent tanks' Antarctic base is not necessary, then? Nor the mass laser rifle manufacturing facility? What kind of slapdash secret alien-fighting organisation are you running there? :P

So you don't even need to assault battleships in particular, I did it just once for fun and that's it. Same with terror ships. There's just not much to be gained from them.
100-200 Elerium, turret corpses, lots of Alloys and other swag? Alien Commanders? (I really wish they didn't come down to your bases to be captured like sheep. :( )

Only the tactics of running into the house and playing open-close the door work.
That's cheese I got more than enough of when I played Urban Chaos (JA2 mod).

Firstly, I don't see much point in covering the water with radars. And secondly, it doesn't work the way you think. Even if you cover only 50% of the sushi with radars, you will detect 95% of the plates. And flying out on each one is also a rather deviant tactic. Personally, I drown 95% of the plates in the sea.
AFAIK, crashed UFOs don't give the aliens any score, so crashing the saucers into the sea is just aesthetics.

Full coverage is not about detecting them at all, it's about finding them early enough that a early mid-game craft has a good chance to get to all possible landing sites. Full radar coverage helps with cutting down on time to first detection. Finding them when they've already landed, or on the return leg to outer space isn't half as useful.

The alien colonies in the files appear after the landing of a certain type of battleship. And only after that the country signs the pact. Since my tormentors have knocked down 100% of all the plates, no more alien colonies have appeared.
No, they appear when the country gets infiltrated, which happens when the final Battleship enters the atmosphere. Whether it lands or is shot down matters not (without using 'interruptPercentage', which the mod does not). This has been discussed to death already. What you're seeing is random luck of not getting any infiltration missions since your last one.

If you play with save loads, then all this ceases to be a problem. You can take battleships with your bare hands as trainees without losses.
All right, challenge uploaded. Feel free to save and reload to your heart's content to win the attached mission with zero losses. Post your results - preferably intermediate saves, like one per 5-10 aliens - when you're done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 07, 2023, 03:59:04 pm
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Yeah, but that's a function of BL team composition and smokes, not any armour you may or may not wear.
Well that's on you, I didn't write that it was.

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That's true, but a solid veteran with 20 health left isn't much better than having been one-shot. He's probably bleeding out, too.
Ah yeah, brave x-com commander here prefers to lose his veterans left and right instead of just being wounded and rotated out of battle. Good call!

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More like ~58. Knives have 130% armour effectiveness. Average is ~14, vs ~8 for the Arasaka. Bio-Exo has those at ~7 for knives and 28 for Arasakas, a much bigger difference.
75^2/100 = 56.25. Well if you feel than Arasakas are more of a threat than assasins, then suit yourself.
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Melee is always a crapshoot until very high armour values. Katanas will frequently kill you no matter what armour you're wearing. And Katana for an Assassin is 91 effective power, how did you get 95? That means an average of ~23 vs Bio-Exo and ~40 vs Tac Suits. ~22 if they hit you in the face. Not a gigantic difference, really.
That's literally the point not to make it a crapshoot. Maximum damage with a 95 power katana against bio-exo is 67, but it's 119 against the side of a tac. Higher the damage roll, the more favor falls to bio-exos.
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how did you get 95?
I got into new battle at superhuman and mind probed the assassin. Numbers from wiki vary by difficulty and can't completely be trusted. He still had 75 throw tho, as I think it's not affected.
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And no matter how you slice it, the non-covered area is not 5% or even 10% of the globe, i.e. 95% coverage with 6 bases.
1/6 of a cube is 16%. If overlap is fixed, can't say there's enough gaps to fill a whole 1/6. So yeah, 95% coverage.
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Building extra radars means using base slots I have other uses for. One radar get both advance warning and covers any potential sneakiness going on outside radar range.
But you will half the amount of time UFO flies in relevant zones, undetected. All that for a single tile per base! To me, "halving" sounds way more important that whatever is between 16% and 5%.

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So you're saying my super-secret Elerium storage and 'two hundred aliens in containent tanks' Antarctic base is not necessary, then? Nor the mass laser rifle manufacturing facility? What kind of slapdash secret alien-fighting organisation are you running there?
No, you can run all in one. Except containment, that goes to research.

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100-200 Elerium, turret corpses, lots of Alloys and other swag? Alien Commanders?
You can get most of that unnecessary crap from other, easier encounters. I got commander before I got any leader, from a lab ship. Doing it once, for fun should be good though.
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All right, challenge uploaded. Feel free to save and reload to your heart's content to win the attached mission with zero losses. Post your results - preferably intermediate saves, like one per 5-10 aliens - when you're done.
Give me some dogs and I'll try. I wonder if they can bite high enough to get the turrets, though.
Even if not, in principle doable with baiting alien fire, but sanity will be a problem. I can almost imagine it - rookies win by doing nothing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 07, 2023, 04:55:16 pm
Ah yeah, brave x-com commander here prefers to lose his veterans left and right instead of just being wounded and rotated out of battle.
That may not always be an option (spent your meds on a friend already, etc), or not fast enough vs bleeding. And from a local Battlescape POV, an agent rotated back and with stat drain is very much one that isn't in the fight any more.

Strategically, it's of course better to save the agent. But tactically, it can make your position worse than outright losing one.

75^2/100 = 56.25.
I meant max damage vs Heavy Tac Suits, which you claimed was 65.

Well if you feel than Arasakas are more of a threat than assasins, then suit yourself.
There are other tools against ninjas (dogs, motion scanners, incendiaries). Not much to be done against stray shots, and less hassle changing everyone in and out of another set of armour. Assassins are only scary close up. Though probably enough that I should re-evaluate the Bio-Exo suits when I get to that point of the game again.

That's literally the point not to make it a crapshoot. Maximum damage with a 95 power katana against bio-exo is 67, but it's 119 against the side of a tac.
Do Assassins come at you from the back all the time? And 95*2*0.5 - 16*1.4 ~= 72, not 67?

In any case, what makes melee dangerous is that they can slash you more than once due to flat and low TU costs, so max damage on one swing is not the most important metric. As you said yourself for the throwing knives. Getting into melee is always a crapshoot until you get such high armour values even a max damage hit does negligible damage.

I got into new battle at superhuman and mind probed the assassin.
I debug moded myself to one and checked his damage directly. He does 0-182 on the middle difficulty, so 91 on average.

1/6 of a cube is 16%. If overlap is fixed, can't say there's enough gaps to fill a whole 1/6.
But the globe is not a cube, and surface area calculations are not that simple. For a rough estimation, a Large Radar covers about 1/4 of the diameter circumference of the Earth, so ~(1/2)^2 of a hemisphere. Two hemispheres means you need around 8 of these radar areas for total coverage, provided you could tile the globe with circles. No way to get everything even with 7.

If you feel otherwise, feel free to create a save with 6 bases and 95% coverage. I am saying it's not even theoretically possible.

But you will half the amount of time UFO flies in relevant zones, undetected. All that for a single tile per base! To me, "halving" sounds way more important that whatever is between 16% and 5%.
If I had the slots, I'd do that. Perhaps I should, non-manufacturing bases usually have a few free. And, as mentioned before, detection is only the (smaller) half of why I find total coverage useful. No way to build a 'super-hangar' that doubles transport speeds. :(

No, you can run all in one. Except containment, that goes to research.
r/whoosh has entered the thread. :P

You can get most of that unnecessary crap from other, easier encounters.
Not as fast, which matters when I'm 40 million in the hole that month, with maybe 20 million in bounties to offset that and want to get another manufacturing base up and running. I have about half the funding of a comparable vanilla XCF game, score bounties, near-infinite stores and pack-ratness. :D

Give me some dogs and I'll try. I wonder if they can bite high enough to get the turrets, though.
Here you go.

And no, that's why it's impossible. Same for Terror Ships. Would be interesting to see how far you can get before the tedium becomes overwhelming, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 07, 2023, 10:07:27 pm
This is a pretty stupid argument if you consider it on the complexity of iron man. The bio-exo suit on the manor is just garbage. If you see an assassin, then with a 90% probability you immediately get 3-4 throwing knives. If you miraculously survive, then the agent needs to be treated on the next turn, and often by two different people. Assassins are neutralized either by accidentally shooting a minigun, or they are put into a stupor in the doorway by a dog barking. With subsequent execution. Any other encounter with an assassin with a 95% probability is the death of an agent. It's ridiculous to assume that bio exo will really save you from meeting an assassin. On Iron Man, agents with health above 50 are a huge rarity until the discovery of delta radiation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on January 08, 2023, 12:03:40 am
xcom bio-enhancement
becomes way far available before delta radiation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on January 08, 2023, 01:25:40 am
This is a pretty stupid argument if you consider it on the complexity of iron man. The bio-exo suit on the manor is just garbage. If you see an assassin, then with a 90% probability you immediately get 3-4 throwing knives. If you miraculously survive, then the agent needs to be treated on the next turn, and often by two different people. Assassins are neutralized either by accidentally shooting a minigun, or they are put into a stupor in the doorway by a dog barking. With subsequent execution. Any other encounter with an assassin with a 95% probability is the death of an agent. It's ridiculous to assume that bio exo will really save you from meeting an assassin. On Iron Man, agents with health above 50 are a huge rarity until the discovery of delta radiation.

I found the best to deal with assassins are motion scanners. Since smokes aren't really necessary in Black Lotus missions, equipping every soldier with a motion scanner is quite usefull. But there will be turns where the soldiers are busy with other tasks and don't have TUs for motion scanners, so some will likely slip through until the situation is more or less stabilized. But I found that in the first couple of turns assassins are relatively rarely an issue.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 08, 2023, 03:55:43 am
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That may not always be an option (spent your meds on a friend already, etc), or not fast enough vs bleeding.
Strategically, it's of course better to save the agent. But tactically, it can make your position worse than outright losing one.

Yes, you have to dedicate one or two people to rescue the agent. That's your duty as a commander, isn't it? And if you don't overextend, you almost always have that luxury. There's also roles for drained agent, not everyone needs to be on frontline all the time to be useful.

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I meant max damage vs Heavy Tac Suits, which you claimed was 65.
Yeah, it's 58, sorry. I assumed ninja throw to be a little higher that in the wiki, thus got 65.

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Do Assassins come at you from the back all the time? And 95*2*0.5 - 16*1.4 ~= 72, not 67?
AI tries to avoid reaction fire if it can (when walking), so it will try to attack from the sides, or back, if it has the opportunity.
Some people like to rotate back to expected frontline, get hit, and get the baddie with reaction fire, sectoid-style.
But yeah, you right, the max is technically 72, I don't know why i have taken 20*1.4 for that, I didn't intend to count the back.

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In any case, what makes melee dangerous is that they can slash you more than once due to flat and low TU costs, so max damage on one swing is not the most important metric. As you said yourself for the throwing knives. Getting into melee is always a crapshoot until you get such high armour values even a max damage hit does negligible damage.

The point is that surviving an assassin is my main concern there, and bio-exo clearly improves that. The fire is also something of a concern, but surprise - exo covers you there also.

All that's left is kinetics, now that's a true crapshoot. I play with smoke, so enemy almost never sees me, and shoots blind. And they have such abysmal stats that I wonder how do they even manage to hit sometimes.
And even if they hit, they actually have to deal damage.

It's true that there multiple tools against assassins, but most of them are crapshoots. Randomly checking on scanner? Randomly throwing incendiares? Scouting each turn to hope and see one? You can get maybe 3/4 assassins with that, but one or two bastards usually still manage to slip through and wreck a havoc.

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This is a pretty stupid argument if you consider it on the complexity of iron man. The bio-exo suit on the manor is just garbage.
Wrong. It's evident you didn't try. I explicitly noted for you that I cleared 4-5 lotus manors on ironman superhuman, in bio-exos.
And yeah, I was also heavily skeptic about it until I tried.

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If you see an assassin, then with a 90% probability you immediately get 3-4 throwing knives.
That's the point of a bio-exo suit, it has huge cutting resist.

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If you miraculously survive, then the agent needs to be treated on the next turn, and often by two different people.
Wow, and do agents never need treating normally or something? How's this relevant? I don't know about you, but my agents don't ever go alone, always have backup and medkits nearby.

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Assassins are neutralized either by accidentally shooting a minigun, or they are put into a stupor in the doorway by a dog barking.
You can also scout them with rat or a scout drone, they have reasonable anti-camo, as well as see through smoke better then dogs.

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Any other encounter with an assassin with a 95% probability is the death of an agent.
Yeah, for you. Because you do not use bio-exos.

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It's ridiculous to assume that bio exo will really save you from meeting an assassin.
I didn't "assume" anything, that's battle tested. And with enough luck, you can survive Chupacabras.

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On Iron Man, agents with health above 50 are a huge rarity until the discovery of delta radiation.
Wrong again. All my (senior) agents were above 65 health at this point in the game, and at least two had 74, see attachment. That was my first manor attempt.
Some of the guys on this trip survived long enough to see Cydonia, hehe. There, they were max 118-130-156 health, depending on race.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 08, 2023, 04:51:34 am
AI tries to avoid reaction fire if it can (when walking), so it will try to attack from the sides, or back, if it has the opportunity.
For melee and thrown weapons, that means they waste their TUs on walking rather than attacking, which is a win in the total damage department. And I've been getting throwning knives in the face more often than not. They have to happen upon your flank or rear (which is a concern with Assassins) to reliably backstab you.

Some people like to rotate back to expected frontline, get hit, and get the baddie with reaction fire, sectoid-style.
But you get the reaction shot anyway? What does that even do, except look cool and waste TU?

The point is that surviving an assassin is my main concern there, and bio-exo clearly improves that.
Yeah, I think you've convinced me there.

And they have such abysmal stats that I wonder how do they even manage to hit sometimes.
...
And even if they hit, they actually have to deal damage.
I have a suspicion that extremely low values of hit 'percent' are excessively misleading when it comes to actual hit chance.

I also play with 2d100/2 damage, and it still seems a crapshoot whether they crit me or not. So I prefer higher armour values whenever possible.

It's true that there multiple tools against assassins, but most of them are crapshoots. Randomly checking on scanner? Randomly throwing incendiares? Scouting each turn to hope and see one? You can get maybe 3/4 assassins with that, but one or two bastards usually still manage to slip through and wreck a havoc.
Well, yeah, that is true. I don't Ironman, so guess what I do then? Assassins are bullshit. :D

I wish Solarius would put that super-stealth mojo on the aliens instead of multiple starter cult enemies per map.

If you see an assassin, then with a 90% probability you immediately get 3-4 throwing knives.
Four knives means the Assassin stood almost perfectly still during their turn, or you ran into one and then out of TU (which is on you). I don't think I've ever seen that happen, because Assassins literally can't throw four knives on Veteran.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Mathel on January 08, 2023, 12:44:14 pm
Back when I played XCF, I used incendiary mines against ninjas. Put a minefield up, then the ninjas will light themselves up.

I have a suspicion that extremely low values of hit 'percent' are excessively misleading when it comes to actual hit chance.

They are.
The "hit percent" is accurate at medium distances. At short distances, the real hit chance is higher. At long distances, the hit chance is lower. (Edit: Except if you have 0% listed. Then your actual hit chance is always higher, since the shot can still accidentally hit your designated target.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 08, 2023, 01:06:39 pm
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For melee and thrown weapons, that means they waste their TUs on walking rather than attacking, which is a win in the total damage department.
Yeah, probably.
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And I've been getting throwning knives in the face more often than not.
If the enemy is directly in front of you, but just one tile off to the side, there's still 33% he'll hit your side armor.
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But you get the reaction shot anyway? What does that even do, except look cool and waste TU?
Well, with throwing knives you won't get to react at all, since you won't see the assassin from that range. So you'll just tank knives with your back armor.
If he goes for melee, it's far worse, so I don't do this. It sounds like an invitation to be katana'd.
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I have a suspicion that extremely low values of hit 'percent' are excessively misleading when it comes to actual hit chance.
Yep, they are. That's because it's not "hit percent", it's firing accuracy.
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Accuracy_formula
More firing accuracy essentially decreases the width of the firing cone, making you more likely to hit.

But I was talking more about how are enemy stats are garbage compared to what agents can do.

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Challenge
Beat in 15 turns. Some dogs got burned by fire, but will live. Rookies got off with a scare. If they also had smoke, this would be trivial.

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Back when I played XCF, I used incendiary mines against ninjas. Put a minefield up, then the ninjas will light themselves up.
Mines are cool. Especially gas ones, can do all sorts of cool tricks when you're immune to gas. But they have a tendency to get bonked by anyone except assassin, so I just spam them everywhere I can.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 08, 2023, 01:50:56 pm
If the enemy is directly in front of you, but just one tile off to the side, there's still 33% he'll hit your side armor.
True, but he could also crit from the front, or graze from the side, or whatever. None of this is really reliable. And if there's 'only' a 1/3 chance of performing significantly worse than Bio-Exo vs cutting, that's a minor win. Not enough to offset the other advantages, though.

Well, with throwing knives you won't get to react at all, since you won't see the assassin from that range. So you'll just tank knives with your back armor.
Yeah, but that's specific to ninjas and Bio-Exo suits. I thought there was some general advantage to doing it 'sectoid-style'.

Yep, they are. That's because it's not "hit percent", it's firing accuracy.
I'm aware. But I meant that this number is wildly off-target. I've seen enough cases of '2%' shots hit people like 10-20% of the time at 20 tiles or so, if the intervening terrain is clear.

But I was talking more about how are enemy stats are garbage compared to what agents can do.
Experienced, enhanced agents are significantly superhuman, yeah. The aliens could learn a thing or two from X-Com bio-enhancement programs. :)

Beat in 15 turns. Some dogs got burned by fire, but will live. Rookies got off with a scare. If they also had smoke, this would be trivial.
I didn't expect it to go this well! How long were you reloading your turns until no doggie was vaporised? Or did you do mid-turn quicksaves?

For some reason, I also thought Battleships had some of the big roof turrets, which would have actually been impossible. Hmm, maybe the little turrets need a giant amount of dodge to represent them bring attached to the roof instead of the ground?

I guess it kinda shows that aliens do need better stats to be a big threat. Or perhaps Brutal AI. >:D

It also shows how unbalanced melee damage scaling is. I kinda find it immersion-breaking when regular, non-enhanced dogs can rip out alien spaceship turrets with their plain Mk I teeth. Mine literally cannot, 0-40 damage vs 50 armour.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: PPQ on January 08, 2023, 02:18:55 pm
Just don't overdo it. Remember that for every hardcore player that enjoys a painful challenge there are also old people like my self who enjoy a more casual play stile. So you need to balance for the middle rather than just making challenge for challenge sake.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 08, 2023, 02:51:40 pm
No worries, I doubt Solarius will do either. And you can always tell challenge-seekers to use the Brutal AI mod and see how long they last. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 08, 2023, 03:47:51 pm
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I thought there was some general advantage to doing it 'sectoid-style'.
Nope, in general that's mostly disadvantageous. That's why sectoids are chumps and dogs eat them for breakfast.
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But I meant that this number is wildly off-target.
It's not off target because it's literally not hit chance, but related. But yeah, it's somewhat misleading if you think about it this way.
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How long were you reloading your turns until no doggie was vaporised? Or did you do mid-turn quicksaves?
Not too much. Regular enemies mostly ignore you. The hardest part is getting inside the saucer avoiding turrets. I use Boo Boo to bait their fire from afar, then run through with other dogs. After that you have cover, and can start to methodically shank aliens, turrets and cyberdics. Yeah, there were quicksaves.

My headcanon is, the sectoids somewhat knew about the Earth. And thus just ignored a bunch of strays next to UFO. It's tension, X-Com landed nearby! Next up is, screaming, chaos in psi-channel - how do these bastards attack us??
So, underestimated the enemy, but it was too late...
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For some reason, I also thought Battleships had some of the big roof turrets, which would have actually been impossible.
That's terror ships. Would be still possible, if dogs could fly. Or jump.
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I guess it kinda shows that aliens do need better stats to be a big threat. Or perhaps Brutal AI. >:D
Nope, the point was that savescumming is the most terrifying weapon. You can already beat almost any late-game encounter normally, with sufficient prep, when you get to promo 2. But with savescumming, oh boy.
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It also shows how unbalanced melee damage scaling is. I kinda find it immersion-breaking when regular, non-enhanced dogs can rip out alien spaceship turrets with their plain Mk I teeth. Mine literally cannot, 0-40 damage vs 50 armour.
Just imagine they're wielding katana in their teeth. In general, dogs are a bit too strong, yes. What's more, fairly pumped dog can withstand ethereals.

But they also die pretty easily and require some skill and knowledge to use properly. I lost something over 300 of them, and it was year 2.5 before I got a first dog to cap TUs.

Then I found out that you can cheese exp a little, and it became 20 maxed out dogs, 10 rats, etc. Didn't need all of those that much in the end, and yet 10 still died...
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Remember that for every hardcore player that enjoys a painful challenge there are also old people like my self who enjoy a more casual play stile. So you need to balance for the middle rather than just making challenge for challenge sake.
I feel that the strength of the aliens depends on player's knowledge. Aliens feel like a legitimate threat when you don't know how to deal with them, and then feel like worms in the dirt you walk upon. Enemy unknown and all that. I think, that makes for a nice feeling of progression and manages to cater to both categories of players.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 08, 2023, 04:29:46 pm
It's not off target because it's literally not hit chance, but related.
Well, in some cases (extreme values, clear shot to 5% of the body while 95% is covered by a hedge, etc) it seems so weakly related it's counterproductive.

Regular enemies mostly ignore you.
Yep, that's a big issue with classic X-Com AI.

Yeah, there were quicksaves.
I meant middle-of-enemy-turn quicksaves. Took me half a dozen tries to get to turn 3 without any dogs biting it with regular saves.

Nope, the point was that savescumming is the most terrifying weapon.
It is. But... If the enemies coordinated well enough that each turn they'd hit and kill someone in the open with 99% certainty without milling around, even if not the same agent/dog every time... If melee wasn't OP... Maybe you'd actually need tactics and ranged weaponry and pure savescumming wouldn't work. I suspect Brutal AI might actually do something like half of this. Should try sometime.

Then I found out that you can cheese exp a little, and it became 20 maxed out dogs, 10 rats, etc.
What precisely were you using? High armour, mind control, non-surrendering enemies corralled away while you bark'n'bite the rest, something else?

Edit:
My headcanon
;D

Would be still possible, if dogs could fly. Or jump.
XCF dogs are more likely to get a bite that shreds UFO walls, which would also work. :)

Just imagine they're wielding katana in their teeth.
A guy with a katana bashing alien spaceship turrets into pieces is also a considerable distance into full fiction territory.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Nalca on January 08, 2023, 05:59:34 pm
What precisely were you using? High armour, mind control, non-surrendering enemies corralled away while you bark'n'bite the rest, something else?
I would say, dogs barking at a stunned enemy. Count as hitting an enemy with an attack.
Guess they lack confidence  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 09, 2023, 07:39:57 am
Quote
I meant middle-of-enemy-turn quicksaves. Took me half a dozen tries to get to turn 3 without any dogs biting it with regular saves.
Nope.
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If melee wasn't OP...Maybe you'd actually need tactics and ranged weaponry and pure savescumming wouldn't work.
Wow, somehow scamming a hit with a blops or heavy cannon to a turret across the map is less OP than shanking it up close?
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Brutal AI
Atm feels about as dumb as original, but in different way. The dog challenge is definitely doable against it, but maybe you're bound to lose a dog or two to grenades. Maybe not, as you can lure the grenadier to a cover and eat him.
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What precisely were you using?
Morale.
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A guy with a katana bashing alien spaceship turrets into pieces is also a considerable distance into full fiction territory.
There could be some seams in its construction. For example, he can old-school jam it with a metal rod. Or break it's sensors. It's a dumb stationary target, why should it be invincible?
And agents are superhuman hulks. They most definitely can bend metal, and rip the turret with hands. I'm actually peeved in opposite direction - you can't ever punch the crap outta sectopod, even though it's not the most stable thing and the hulks should be able to overturn it.
Anyway, you can just leave primed hi-ex next to it instead. Ever heard of K-9 sui-squad?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 09, 2023, 08:51:16 am
Wow, somehow scamming a hit with a blops or heavy cannon to a turret across the map is less OP than shanking it up close?
No, having a non-vanishing chance of everyone surviving both the positions from where they can run across the map and those you end up in is where the extra OP-ness lies.

Atm feels about as dumb as original, but in different way. The dog challenge is definitely doable against it, but maybe you're bound to lose a dog or two to grenades. Maybe not, as you can lure the grenadier to a cover and eat him.
Don't they shoot your dogs from long range a lot more, possibly with Blasters? There was no full cover for a lot of them in the saves.

You should probably share your observations on dumbness with Xilmi, too.

Morale.
You mean panicking? Took so long to yield results last time I tried it I gave up.

There could be some seams in its construction. For example, he can old-school jam it with a metal rod.
That would at best leave you with half a sword and the snapped-off half wedged into the super-alloy seam. Swords make poor crowbars.

Or break it's sensors. It's a dumb stationary target, why should it be invincible?
They are probably networked, and plugged into the UFO's own psi-channels to boot.

And it needs to be tough precisely because it's immobile. Not so tough you can't kill it, but not without serious firepower. Or hulks with equally tough rods to bash it with. :)

I'm actually peeved in opposite direction - you can't ever punch the crap outta sectopod, even though it's not the most stable thing and the hulks should be able to overturn it.
Interesting idea. Though maxed people in Power/Flying Suits definitely can, if not very reliably and/or from the front.

Ever heard of K-9 sui-squad?
Yep. Used to be rookies before dogs came along.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 09, 2023, 12:18:05 pm
Quote
No, having a non-vanishing chance of everyone surviving both the positions from where they can run across the map and those you end up in is where the extra OP-ness lies.

Don't they shoot your dogs from long range a lot more, possibly with Blasters? There was no full cover for a lot of them in the saves.
They try, but no. First, I'm in pretty reasonable cover. It's not like I'm going extra mile for stupid shit and the entire alien squad has guns on me. It's just one or two. What, they miss their entire auto? That's just X-COM, happens to me all the time. Wow, they threw the grenade wrong and blew themselves up? That's just X-COM, happens to me all the time.
It not completely OP here. It's all of things RNG juking offers, combined, and then some.
Reasonably scumming player would just clear up here a bit with hit-and-run tactics, and then it will work anyway. Not exactly a pinnacle of thought required.

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Though maxed people in Power/Flying Suits definitely can, if not very reliably and/or from the front.
No, they can't.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 09, 2023, 12:56:17 pm
First, I'm in pretty reasonable cover. It's not like I'm going extra mile for stupid shit and the entire alien squad has guns on me.
Retried, took me 7 loads this time to get past turn 3.5 without casualties, with only the mobbed Sectoid and a not a lot of potshots happening. If they all tried, I'm sure it'd take a lot longer.

Edit: Broke down and tried Brutal AI on turn 3.5. They shot more and grenaded Reks without fail, but not a great improvement survivability-wise, overall. :(

That's just X-COM, happens to me all the time.
Yes, any single event can be savescummed to oblivion. If the entire enemy turn can, with ease, that's really a mark against them as well as savescumming.

Reasonably scumming player would just clear up here a bit with hit-and-run tactics, and then it will work anyway. Not exactly a pinnacle of thought required.

No, they can't.
If you stacked weapon mastery like crazy, someone with like 150 Melee and 50 strength could have a slight chance of passing the rear armour. But, yeah, I overlooked the stun resist. :-[
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 pm
If they all tried, I'm sure it'd take a lot longer.
When they try, they still have to approach the cover. If they overextend, they leave themselves open, and also group up. And only few of them have grenades. That just compliments hit-and-run tactics. Think zombies, but sectoids.
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If you stacked weapon mastery like crazy, someone with like 150 Melee and 50 strength could have a slight chance of passing the rear armour. But, yeah, I overlooked the stun resist.
Still not enough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:10 pm
When they try, they still have to approach the cover. If they overextend, they leave themselves open, and also group up.
No, there were like three dogs in quite partial cover who got hit pretty reliably: Reks, Pudding and Boo Boo. They just needed to shoot more and aim more. Not sure why Brutal AI was so miserable about it.

And opening themselves up is meaningless, your dogs didn't have ranged weapons, were in melee rush range anyway, and the Sectoids were dead either way.
 
Think zombies, but sectoids.
Zombies are pretty deadly if they manage to overrun you.

Still not enough.
Yah, missed armor effectiveness, too. :-[ Fisticuffs are just bad against so much armour.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Slow on January 11, 2023, 06:20:30 pm
Please, limit the number of manors that can spawn. Two or three per faction would be enough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 11, 2023, 06:35:07 pm
Gaiz, why do enforcers have such problems with endurance?))) It looks like this. You quickly get somewhere, and then you take a maximum of 4-5 steps in a turn. Often you need to accumulate stamina for two turns just to wave a power baton.

--- posts merged - Solarius Scorch ---

Please, limit the number of manors that can spawn. Two or three per faction would be enough.
Weakling...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 11, 2023, 07:44:57 pm
Gaiz, why do enforcers have such problems with endurance?
You mean these guys?

Their batteries run out. No, I'm serious, that's exactly what happens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 11, 2023, 09:54:51 pm
You mean these guys?

Their batteries run out. No, I'm serious, that's exactly what happens.
In the original, the enforcer will give odds to anyone in terms of mobility and endurance. Try to find such a running-jumping indefatigable creature. So it's not canon...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 11, 2023, 10:46:48 pm
Well, the poor guy got saddled with much bigger legs in this timeline, and Able Standard is refusing to come out of his room...


...wait, does this mean you actually played Enforcer? :o
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on January 12, 2023, 06:12:33 am
Do not place a limit on the manors. I enjoy my experience farms for solo/dual agents.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 12, 2023, 12:35:07 pm
After replaying this game on a second run, I never realized how difficult those "Cult forward bases" were in the early stages with semi-experienced soldiers.
Safe houses and Cult investigations are a piece of cake. But those Cult Forward bases. A little tough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 12, 2023, 12:52:57 pm
If there are 2 promos, then there is nothing complicated. The only thing is that in case of an unsuccessful respawn, you have to wait a month and fly in again. It was really difficult to attack the new red Dawn headquarters. I attacked him 4 times in the current ironman difficulty game and suffered huge losses until I realized that all I had to do to win was steal a floppy disk.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: amokk_gw on January 12, 2023, 03:32:50 pm
I love some of the more rare monster missions like Bloodmoon with the white werewolfs and the Spidernest. I think it would be cool to flesh out the monster arcs a bit more. I'd also love an alternate progression route through monsters rather than the cults.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 12, 2023, 10:28:47 pm
I love some of the more rare monster missions like Bloodmoon with the white werewolfs and the Spidernest. I think it would be cool to flesh out the monster arcs a bit more. I'd also love an alternate progression route through monsters rather than the cults.
The third promo can be explored through the arch of monsters, caves and the underground threat, as far as I understand.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 14, 2023, 02:45:44 pm
Something else: I find it curious that there are no commendations for using medical items. And commendations for psi-stuff seem almost entirely absent from OXC(E) itself, barring the totalSlaveKills one.


Edit: Another thing, about the "Winners Don't Use Drugs" event. Testing prominent MMA fighters for performance-enhancing drugs and hitting them with arrests, fines, bans and whatnot was really not a thing in the 1990s. It was and to an entirely too large extent still is a joke how little MMA organisers care about doping.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Stone Lake on January 15, 2023, 06:34:17 am
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And commendations for psi-stuff seem almost entirely absent from OXC(E) itself, barring the totalSlaveKills one.
If you mean mind controlling-related, then sure. Otherwise, psi-weapons are just regular weapons and there is Sorcerer commend for them in XCF.
Also, there's weird situation that when you MC, you get the kills of a puppet. Which means, you can get Mauler and Hunter-killer if you MC a dog or a robot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Tierre on January 16, 2023, 03:27:59 pm
I have an issue with zombie soldiers.... I had only 2 of them in 1 mission (something with failed MAGMA experiments). I got both of thme stunned and researched and then spent them on Blood Plasma.... and i neede their corpse to make power armor O_O And now i don't know where to find another one.... I already finished the ark of mummies, but it took game years and 5 castles and 10 temples - no zombie soldiers... so i guess it was a unique one? And now i need to restart a game so that i take that one soldier and kill the MF so i can progress to Power Armor?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 16, 2023, 04:13:57 pm
You are not the first who has this problem, and Solarius promised to think about making (or not making) a failsafe a while ago.

This is also why I play with 'Retain interrogated aliens' on. Although I don't know how you only got two. The Zombie outbreak mission is absolutely filled with Zombie Troopers, not to mention giant Zombies and other variants. Even the easiest difficulty has at least 5 Troopers on the map.

You can always edit a corpse into your save if you don't want to start over. Which is very understandable considering the length of the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 16, 2023, 08:15:15 pm
I have an issue with zombie soldiers.... I had only 2 of them in 1 mission (something with failed MAGMA experiments). I got both of thme stunned and researched and then spent them on Blood Plasma.... and i neede their corpse to make power armor O_O And now i don't know where to find another one.... I already finished the ark of mummies, but it took game years and 5 castles and 10 temples - no zombie soldiers... so i guess it was a unique one? And now i need to restart a game so that i take that one soldier and kill the MF so i can progress to Power Armor?
It seems to me that non-linear progress with missing content is normal. x com files is a very extensive mod. In my current playthrough, I came to something quite simple already in the fifth game year, and I completely missed something. I don't think it's a bad thing. Conversely. This means that next time I can find something in the game that I didn't see last time. Each game is a separate unique story.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on January 16, 2023, 09:17:05 pm
Juku,

Any guidance for getting Brutal-AI mod to function/install? I presumed it was a c/p of the zip file into user>mods to enable, but it's not showing as available in game to do so.

What am I missing?  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 16, 2023, 09:46:25 pm
Brutal AI is its own install. Think of it as an alternative OXCE. So you paste mods into it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 18, 2023, 01:04:54 pm
I really enjoyed the David Vincent mission. Those type of missions are really cool. Would love to see similar missions like maybe the UN council of funding is under attack and must go and save some of the members.

The only thing I found less challenging about the David Vincent mission was You could keep him safe through out the mission by leaving him down stairs in the concrete walls of the basement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 18, 2023, 01:34:21 pm
What, you wanted him to scream "Leeeeeroy!" "Daaavvid!" and charge the attacking doggies? :P


If the Council wants me to provide their security after they've been fucking with X-Com for months if not years... Well, okay. ;D I'm not responsible for any minor accidents that might happen along the way, though. Like the councilman happening to pick up some interesting beeping rocks with a grid pattern. >:D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 18, 2023, 11:01:12 pm
What, you wanted him to scream "Leeeeeroy!" "Daaavvid!" and charge the attacking doggies? :P


No idea what you're going on about here
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 18, 2023, 11:54:12 pm
Are you still not familiar with the relationship between 'keep civilians/VIPs safe' and 'Leeroy MF-ing Jenkins', after witnessing armed civilian AI in action throughout the mod? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 19, 2023, 12:53:55 pm
Never heard of him. But I did just watch a 7 minute video on the history of this meme sensation. Slightly impressive.
Never played World of warcraft or any of those games.

I've spent most of my years in a recording studio, playing videos games is a way to get away from work now and then. Never a serious gamer though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Akamashi on January 19, 2023, 07:48:38 pm
I've been playing all my youth and managed to miss this meme. Until now, when I met him, I always thought it had something to do with a curly-haired black man pretending to be Bruce Lee.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 27, 2023, 05:10:59 pm
I thought of a few myself.
I'm on my second round of playing this game and would love a way to speed up research.

- purchasing "Research redemption tokens".  Would be put to use for the Cost/spent hours in research time. Could make them fairly expensive too so it would not be abused. Example 1k per hour.

So it's something like outsourcing the research to some other lab? And then getting a random research from from a list? Am I getting it right?

Mechanically it would work, yes; but goes against the spirit of secrecy. However, it could be some mid-late game option for making peace with some Big Faction.

- Maybe even applying this same method towards score. Buying score points.

Also doable, but I can't see how it makes sense in-setting. Unless it's bribes to the Council... I wonder if anyone could afford that. :P

The major flaw I encountered was losing this game due to low score. The game is difficult enough without having to worry about this. But can't be totally excluded. That is why purchasing score points, research points and possibly even manufacturing points (to speed up manufacturing) might be worth exploring.

The point of the game is to rack up points... Buying them with money just eliminates one facet of the main model, since it introduces money as the lowest common denominator. Sure, money making is hard in XCF, but still - if changes are necessary, I'd rather fix the source of the problem.

Would it be cool with you if I start a thread theory-crafting new mission ideas? I think exploring various gimmicky ideas would be an interesting and potentially fruitful discussion, but I don't want to clog up this thread or come off as a backseat dev.

Sure I'd be cool with it! No need to ask :)

But you know, if it's beyond the current engine, then it's mostly just for fun.

Trying to make a game (or mod) that pleases everyone frequently leads to pleasing no-one. :(

True! Which is why a good modder makes a mod to please themselves above everyone else. ;) Then it will be liked by at least some people...

I don't really know why 'lessAliensDuringBaseDefense' got disabled - the changelog says "Shooting at UFOs no longer decreases their crews (for lore reasons)" yet I don't recall any discussion about those - but you can also re-enable that. Then the aliens get to the 'as the last few hide' phase a lot quicker.

It got cut because it was stupid.

How would this work? You vaporise half of the UFO, but the rest still safely lands and deploys the troops? :)

Edit: Come to think of it, maybe Solarius could also take a clue from Reaver (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10886.msg150892.html#msg150892) and play around with UFO base detection radii and the mind shield formula?

Id did some of it... But I'm focusing on mission scripts and such.

Edit2: Now manufacturing, that indeed has some pretty weird costs sometimes. But that isn't really solved by adding extra sources of manufacturing points.

Actually manufacturing costs are the most meticulously calculated part of the mod by far. I don't think any of them should be "weird".

Please, limit the number of manors that can spawn. Two or three per faction would be enough.

It will be limited in the upcoming version. You can get it now from GitHub, if you don't want to wait.

Do not place a limit on the manors. I enjoy my experience farms for solo/dual agents.

No worries, I just decreased the chances and growth speed, no hard limits.

In the original, the enforcer will give odds to anyone in terms of mobility and endurance. Try to find such a running-jumping indefatigable creature. So it's not canon...

This is the nth iteration of "making the Enforcer not completely eliminate the need of human agents".
...wait, does this mean you actually played Enforcer? :o

I actually did for a bit, and it wasn't so bad :)

Something else: I find it curious that there are no commendations for using medical items. And commendations for psi-stuff seem almost entirely absent from OXC(E) itself, barring the totalSlaveKills one.

With the Bravery training, they're already borderline too good.

Edit: Another thing, about the "Winners Don't Use Drugs" event. Testing prominent MMA fighters for performance-enhancing drugs and hitting them with arrests, fines, bans and whatnot was really not a thing in the 1990s. It was and to an entirely too large extent still is a joke how little MMA organisers care about doping.

MMA fighters? In the 90's? :D
That was called kickboxing... Or Thai boxing.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 27, 2023, 06:50:52 pm
How would this work? You vaporise half of the UFO, but the rest still safely lands and deploys the troops?
UFOs are spacecraft. Many are even combat spacecraft, and most of them have visible internal sections that can presumably be cut off from the rest of the ship when compromised. You know, like any spaceship with even a modicum of thought given to damage control.

I mean, the current situation doesn't really make all that much more sense to me. Right now that very same half-vaporised UFO still lands and deploys all the troops.

But, in any case, the problem is not so much with the fluff but the gameplay effects. Right now, your defences either work or they do not, no middle ground. Putting up just one plasma cannon in one corner of the base is worse than useless.

Actually manufacturing costs are the most meticulously calculated part of the mod by far. I don't think any of them should be "weird".
The monetary costs themselves seem fine, I haven't really spotted anything outrageous and I do believe you've gone to great lengths to make them consistent. It's the manufacturing times I'm a bit salty about.

E.g. I've found dart manufacturing times quite excessive. Six tiny darts with a somewhat exotic payload take an order of magnitude longer than 80 giant alloy bullets.

In fact, how many alloys a bullet takes is wildly divergent. One unit of alloys gets you either 11 tiny Spypistol rounds or 25+ HMG rounds. I suspect someone in Engineering is engaged in some creative alloy accounting. :)

To be honest, pretty much all the ammo vs weapon build times are kinda suspect. IRL, you pay something like two orders of magnitude less for a mag+ammo than the corresponding weapon. In XCF, it's more like 5-10x more for the weapon. I'm not sure why X-Com doesn't just make all weapons disposable and dispense with this reloading business altogether. :P

With the Bravery training, they're already borderline too good.
I don't want the medical commendations for the stats, I want them for memories. The dedicated medic deserves a medal to show who patched up everyone after the Commander let the cat sit in his chair. Twice. :)

MMA fighters? In the 90's?
What was later called UFC 1 happened in November 1993. MMA had quite a bit of momentum by the late 90s.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 27, 2023, 08:32:33 pm
UFOs are spacecraft. Many are even combat spacecraft, and most of them have visible internal sections that can presumably be cut off from the rest of the ship when compromised. You know, like any spaceship with even a modicum of thought given to damage control.

Yes, but UFOs don't fly like that. A UFO will usually fall long before its armour is breached. Refer to the relevant Pedia articles.

But, in any case, the problem is not so much with the fluff but the gameplay effects. Right now, your defences either work or they do not, no middle ground. Putting up just one plasma cannon in one corner of the base is worse than useless.

I plan to improve this by adding several different sizes of assault UFOs.

The monetary costs themselves seem fine, I haven't really spotted anything outrageous and I do believe you've gone to great lengths to make them consistent. It's the manufacturing times I'm a bit salty about.

Well... I'm salty about lot of things when I play. :P

I understand yur arguments, but I don't think anything is illogical here. although admittedly I haven't made any special calculations here, so various cost levels are ass pulls.

E.g. I've found dart manufacturing times quite excessive. Six tiny darts with a somewhat exotic payload take an order of magnitude longer than 80 giant alloy bullets.

It's kind of a legacy feature by now? Tradition? Well, I agree it may be a tad long, but it's kind of canon by now... At least to me :)

I don't want the medical commendations for the stats, I want them for memories. The dedicated medic deserves a medal to show who patched up everyone after the Commander let the cat sit in his chair. Twice. :)

Ah, okay. We can do something here :)

What was later called UFC 1 happened in November 1993. MMA had quite a bit of momentum by the late 90s.

I ceertainly haven't heard of it back then...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 27, 2023, 08:44:54 pm
Yes, but UFOs don't fly like that. A UFO will usually fall long before its armour is breached. Refer to the relevant Pedia articles.
That's more "My new interpretation of UFO propulsion means it no longer makes sense", but fair enough. That's consistent and makes sense.

Though it's a bit different during base defence. Mechanically, that is. UFOs attacking bases and HKs don't crash at 50% HP, they need to be fully 'destroyed'.

I plan to improve this by adding several different sizes of assault UFOs.
Woohoo! :)

I understand yur arguments, but I don't think anything is illogical here. although admittedly I haven't made any special calculations here, so various cost levels are ass pulls.
I understand and sympathise, I've done a lot of the same myself. Where the heck do I take these numbers from and do they even make sense? Oh, of course they don't. :( Tweak-tweak.

Ultimately, it's not that important, and a large chunk of my saltiness stems from my pack rat tendency of supplying every base with copious amounts of ammo, usually to the tune of 1K per type across the organisation. I doubt there's another player like me in this regard. :-[

Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 27, 2023, 09:12:47 pm
Jesus Christ, I wonder how on Earth you managed to survive those several days without this forum. Seriously! Get a life! :/

Though it's a bit different during base defence. Mechanically, that is. UFOs attacking bases and HKs don't crash at 50% HP, they need to be fully 'destroyed'.

Yes yes, different minigame, different rules. The process is too vague to worry about (how does troop insertion really works, etc.)

Ultimately, it's not that important, and a large chunk of my saltiness stems from my pack rat tendency of supplying every base with copious amounts of ammo, usually to the tune of 1K per type across the organisation. I doubt there's another player like me in this regard. :-[

Well, I don't think I can do much about this inconvenience...

Neither had I. But for the enthusiast (mostly in the US, Japan or maybe Brazil), late 90s had a whole bunch of MMA competitions getting themselves established.

Eh, my point was that since X-Com obviously has heard of MMA, it's a strange timeline where it's also heard of drug testing with consequences for MMA fighters. But it's your timeline. I have nothing against an alien invasion that causes MMA promoters to start a serious anti-extraterrestrial-drug-use program. I'd just find it more immersive and funny if there was a reference to the Illuminati (or whatever faction suits best) MMA-afficionados flexing on the promoters. :)

I dunno, drug testing in sports is a thing? Seriously, what are you going on about?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 27, 2023, 09:27:21 pm
Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).

Jesus Christ, I wonder how on Earth you managed to survive those several days without this forum.
I didn't. I died, and am now back to haunt the forum. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Anthony on January 28, 2023, 06:43:18 am
Nothing particular to say right now. Just wanted to make an account here to say that I think it's really cool people still do stuff with X-Com and I find this mod particularly cool at the moment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 28, 2023, 11:45:35 am
Drug testing in MMA is notoriously even worse than it is in wrestling or bodybuilding. I mean, it took UFC until 2015 to start working with USADA. Most of the big busts are from 2010s, and even more post-2015. It was a Wild West in the '90s.

I don't know what all these acronyms mean. No, I don't want any explanations. But I want you to acknowledge that only only 1 region out of 14 for this even is STR_NORTH_AMERICA (okay, some locations in STR_ARCTIC, STR_NORTH_ATLANTIC and STR_PACIFIC may also apply).

And while I don't know anything about this particular discipline, to say that a sporting event bigger than a garage brawl goes without any supervision sounds like an obvious bullshit unworthy of discussion. Even if the procedures were lax, it's not like nothing would have happened if something actually was found.

I didn't. I died, and am now back to haunt the forum. :P

XD

Nothing particular to say right now. Just wanted to make an account here to say that I think it's really cool people still do stuff with X-Com and I find this mod particularly cool at the moment.

Thank you! <3
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: Juku121 on January 28, 2023, 12:33:11 pm
Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 28, 2023, 01:18:38 pm
If I were an expert on this, it wouldn't be "obvious bullshit", but discussing facts. :)

I still can't see how all this is mutually exclusive with the event. You wrote yourself that there were consequences. What would have happened if the effects were more unusual than just high testosterone?

Still, I should rename this from "MMA" to "boxing". At least I've seen some boxing in my life, as opposed to MMA. (The event wasn't written by me.) Pity it came up a moment before release, so I'm not doing this now, due to translations.

And so, without further ado, I'm really happy to announce that version 2.8 has been released.

2.8:
- New palette (by Brain_322).
- 16 new faces (by Osobist).
- New weapons: Portable Laser Cannon (bigob by Rockfish, slightly altered), Portable Turbolaser Cannon (bigob by Brain_322), Laser SMG (graphics by Brain_322), Laser Sniper Rifle (bigob by Brain_322; old Laser Sniper Rifle renamed to Turbolaser Sniper Rifle).
- New ammo: BlackOps CAWS Baton Clip.
- New missions: Ethereal Retaliation, MiB Lunar Base.
- New UFOs: Arbiter (map and sprite by Brain_322), Dreadnought (map by Wolverin, sprite by Brain_322).
- New terrain: Autumn Forest (recolor by Brain_322), for The Sound of Graves.
- 1 new Urban map (by Dioxine).
- 2 new Postindustrial maps (by Dioxine).
- 2 new Jungle maps (by Dioxine).
- 1 new Cult Safehouse.
- 2 new Cult Outposts (by Brain_322).
- 2 new Dimension X Outpost buildings (by Dioxine).
- 2 new Mansion map variants (by Brain_322).
- New building map for the Syndicate Assassination (by Brain_322).
- New reload sounds for most weapons (thanks to Dioxine and Brain_322 for some resources).
- New MiB-related research.
- Many new Ufopaedia illustrations (one by Bloax, one by Brain_322).
- Some paperdoll improvements (by Talpiot).
- Updated character sets.
- Added MiB Psi Ops armor processing.
- Interceptor now carries Heavy Rockets instead of Light Rockets.
- Kitsune requires Advanced Intelligence Center.
- Pilots attacking hunter-killer UFOs now have a chance to survive.
- Many enemy vehicles show their mission details even without the Hyper-Wave Decoder (scripting by Yankes).
- Removed Ethereals from some missions.
- Decreased the chances for manors to appear by 33%.
- Manors usually start at level 1, regardless of time passed.
- Black Lotus Party lasts longer.
- Scorpoids are somewhat stealthy.
- Added MiB Shock Trooper Armor Adaptation.
- Removed redundant Alloy Vest fist attacks.
- Cleaned up Counter-Terrorist sprite.
- Switched to battlescape palette.
- Fixed Keystone commendation.
- Fixed some spawns in the Academy Tower.
- Fixed routes on some Vampire Castle maps (by Dioxine).
- Fixed Salt Pile being researchable without the item.
- Fixed psi vision on the Liquidator for hybrids.
- Fixed Televised Ghost Hunt building.
- Fixed Alien Downtown Attack alien race.
- Minor fixes and tweaks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Akamashi on January 28, 2023, 01:44:33 pm
I'm sorry that I'm interfering with my opinion. I do not think that the number of alloys for bullets is of great importance and requires revision. Also, the complaint about the problem of scoring points is also not objective. I play on the difficulty of iron man, I cancel a lot of missions, but a month with negative points is a huge rarity and a reason to concentrate and spur activity.

I also suggest writing here who has what favorite fighter in mma.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on January 28, 2023, 02:28:34 pm
version 2.8 has been released.
Yay, update!

That's a lot of new and shiny Pedia images. Drool. :P



Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).

I do not think that the number of alloys for bullets is of great importance and requires revision.
If alloys were raining from the sky, perhaps. But now we can't manufacture them until lategame, and what you get from UFOs/bases can be quite swingy. There are weapons for which you can buy unlimited alloy ammo, and there are ones where you need to carefully husband what you have, epsecially considering all the other things that also need alloys like armour and aircraft. Wasting alloys on Spypistol clips seems totally pointless right now.

Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Rangerh on January 28, 2023, 03:54:38 pm
question about new version : is it requiring the latest OXCE or a previous one ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Akamashi on January 28, 2023, 04:30:09 pm

Fedor. There was a time when he was considered unbeatable by default and treated like a demigod. Oh, and the Randleman suplex. :D
Fedor is a legend. But I'm more about modern athletes. I'm interested in following Alexander Volkov right now. Until recently, I was very excited about the fight of Demian Maya and Glover Teixeira. But these incredible athletes have also retired.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on January 28, 2023, 04:45:59 pm
Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 28, 2023, 07:01:23 pm
Never seen a single MMA fight in my life. And please don't spam this thread with this shit.

question about new version : is it requiring the latest OXCE or a previous one ?

It's set to require 7.8, but 7.7 might also work fine, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on January 28, 2023, 07:54:58 pm
And please don't spam this thread with this shit.
Sorry. :-[ You want to move these bits to a separate topic? Or I can just spoiler these parts of my posts.

Edit: MMA discussion moved here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11053.0.html).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: the nomad on January 28, 2023, 10:07:32 pm
With the new update I can only select from about 10 faces, rest do not show up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Rangerh on January 28, 2023, 11:45:51 pm
It's set to require 7.8, but 7.7 might also work fine, I'm not sure.

Thanks, i wasn't sure which version to use for the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on January 28, 2023, 11:55:21 pm
Well, as became apparent in the other thread, you actually need at least OXCE 7.8.7 for everything to work out right.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 29, 2023, 09:26:05 pm


And so, without further ado, I'm really happy to announce that version 2.8 has been released.


Nice thanks a bunch man. Gonna finish a campaign I'm doing now (almost finished the second time around playing this). I'll start a new one with this new version. Again, can't express enough gratitude toward all involved (to you bro and Dioxine, others).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on January 30, 2023, 12:04:59 am
Is it save compatible?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on January 30, 2023, 01:01:39 am
Is it possible to update a campaign playing on a previous version to the newest version?  I have a campaign that I started last February that I have played intermittently over the past year and I don't want to loose my progress.  I probably know the answer to this, but do I have to start a new campaign if I want to play 2.8?   

Also, does the new MIB mission lead to the potential elimination of the faction like how you can permanently wipe out the cults and such?   
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on January 30, 2023, 01:51:43 am
Is it save compatible?
Is it possible to update a campaign playing on a previous version to the newest version?
In theory, yes. In practice, at least your laser sniper rifles will undergo a downgrade. There might or might not be a few more similar issues, but hopefully nothing critical unless you try a really old save.

I have a campaign that I started last February that I have played intermittently over the past year and I don't want to loose my progress.  I probably know the answer to this, but do I have to start a new campaign if I want to play 2.8?   
I don't think there's a hard requirement to restart, or at least you should be able to save-edit yourself out of any technical difficulties.

Is it something like 2.3 that you were playing? What's your progress like? Were you fighting manors? These came along in 2.3 and were probably the biggest change in a long while.

You'll miss out on some rejiggering of the early game stuff, so a restart will definitely get you a few new experiences, but I don't know if it's truly enough to lose e.g. three years of progress over.

In fact, I think I saw some streamers go from 2.1 to 2.7 in one fell swoop and though they did run into some issues with non-existent missions or regions that needed save editing to overcome (not to mention figuring out once again that OXCE is a separate thing and no, 7.0 is too old :) ), it was eminently doable.

Also, does the new MIB mission lead to the potential elimination of the faction like how you can permanently wipe out the cults and such?
Not that I can tell. You do get to do a major plot-critical mission against them, but they are not getting disbanded or anything like that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on January 30, 2023, 07:58:59 am
Yes, I am on 2.3.  I'm very far in the game at this point (May 2001), I have wiped out the cults, cyberweb, syndicate, creatures, and everything in the shogg.  I'm very far along the apocalypse and UAC storylines, but less so on the undead and barely anything with the deep.  As for aliens...I have no idea.  I already did the control center for the Hybrids (I consider them wiped out at this point, though I still get missions for them), and I am barely along the MIB storyline.  I'm not sure about any others...there were a few one off missions like the Asylum, or the cruise ship or those M.A.G.M.A missions which I did, but I don't know if you can call those arcs. 

Basically, I'm pretty far along and am in the late game.  I just got lasers, guass, and sentinel craft so...I'm close to being done? 

I guess I can try updating then.  Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 30, 2023, 11:36:09 am
Sorry. :-[ You want to move these bits to a separate topic? Or I can just spoiler these parts of my posts.

Another thread is fine. :)

I can move some posts from here, if need be.

Is it save compatible?

Is it possible to update a campaign playing on a previous version to the newest version?  I have a campaign that I started last February that I have played intermittently over the past year and I don't want to loose my progress.  I probably know the answer to this, but do I have to start a new campaign if I want to play 2.8?

Like Juku said, yes, barring the laser rifle issue (old laser rifles turning into new laser rifles which need ammo packs). I don't think there are any other exceptions.

Also, does the new MIB mission lead to the potential elimination of the faction like how you can permanently wipe out the cults and such?

No, and I don't think you ever will have the option.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on January 30, 2023, 12:13:08 pm
Another thread is fine.

I can move some posts from here, if need be.
Made a new thread and cleaned up my posts. If you want to move, edit or remove some, feel free.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 30, 2023, 12:37:42 pm
Made a new thread and cleaned up my posts. If you want to move, edit or remove some, feel free.

It's all right, thank you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 30, 2023, 02:39:59 pm
Yes, I am on 2.3.  I'm very far in the game at this point (May 2001), I have wiped out the cults, cyberweb, syndicate, creatures, and everything in the shogg.  I'm very far along the apocalypse and UAC storylines, but less so on the undead and barely anything with the deep.  As for aliens...I have no idea.  I already did the control center for the Hybrids (I consider them wiped out at this point, though I still get missions for them), and I am barely along the MIB storyline.  I'm not sure about any others...there were a few one off missions like the Asylum, or the cruise ship or those M.A.G.M.A missions which I did, but I don't know if you can call those arcs. 

Basically, I'm pretty far along and am in the late game.  I just got lasers, guass, and sentinel craft so...I'm close to being done? 

I guess I can try updating then.  Thanks for the help!

You need to interrogate the little green people man (catch live aliens). That is the way you will progress. Well that and through research.
If you still haven't finished the other cults, you may not have caught a boss. If you have then you need to catch some high ranking aliens (medics, engineers and most importantly.. Commanders.

Once you do that you'll open up research for
Lunar missions

That's all I'm gonna say for now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on February 01, 2023, 03:16:19 am
Huh...never having the option to wipe out MIB never occurred to me.  My original plan was to steadily wipe out each faction one by one until only the aliens are left.  I guess that is not happening...

As for captures, yes I have captured a bunch of them, but I do need to do more.  Much more.    :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on February 02, 2023, 06:00:21 am
Since everyone is being so helpful I figured I would ask a few more questions.

1. How long does it take for you to finish an xfiles campaign?  I don't mean in game years, I mean IRL.  It seems like I have been playing this campaign for a long time, and while I don't regret it I also plan to play xpiratez at some point and I hear it is just as massive as this one, if not more.  I also want to check out a few of the other mods like the Halo one, or x-chronicles.  I'm judging how long it might take to finish since it might take years to play them all at this point.

2. How many missions a month do you average normally?  10? 15? 20?  I imagine less in the early game obviously, but when you really get rolling what would everyone say is normal?  I assault a lot of crashed UFOs (or landed) each month on top of all the other ones that spawn so I am anywhere from 10-20.  Is this normal, or am I doing a lot more than I need to? 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 02, 2023, 10:58:46 am
How long does it take for you to finish an xfiles campaign?
Well over a year. Maybe even two. Though I don't play it to the exclusion of everything else.

How many missions a month do you average normally? 
20-40. My last three months were 39, 35 and 27.

Is this normal, or am I doing a lot more than I need to? 
Do you feel you need the loot? And do you enjoy the tactical missions? If not, crash sites are not important. Landings eat some of your score, but not huge amounts.

If you feel the game is dragging on, skipping some missions or debugging yourself through the tedious ones is the way to go, IMO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Vakrug on February 03, 2023, 12:32:11 am
I also plan to play xpiratez at some point and I hear it is just as massive as this one, if not more.
Xpiratez is at least 5 times longer than XComFiles! Keep that in mind when you start to think that a "finish line" is on the horizon. And due to codexes you are advised to play Xpiratez at least 4 times! Yes, one must dedicate a life to this mod!

EDIT: I take back words about "Xpiratez is 5 times longer than XComFiles". It is still probably longer, but not that much. Also right now (after recent update) in order to progress further in XComFiles you need some luck with randomness...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on February 03, 2023, 07:11:01 am
Quote
Well over a year. Maybe even two. Though I don't play it to the exclusion of everything else.

Damn, I guess I am normal then.  If Xfiles takes that long to finish then I guess I am doing ok.

Quote
Do you feel you need the loot? And do you enjoy the tactical missions? If not, crash sites are not important. Landings eat some of your score, but not huge amounts.

If you feel the game is dragging on, skipping some missions or debugging yourself through the tedious ones is the way to go, IMO.

No way I need the loot...I have over 100 million in the bank at this point and I have even spent a few months pulling BS strategies just because I've run out of things to really spend the money on.  I am at the point to where X-com can just watch piles of money burn and laugh while doing it.  I don't even bother selling a lot of the loot and I just stock endless amounts of elirum, alloys, and plasma guns in one of my warehouses.  I have so many scientists and engineers that research and production are of no consequence and I have over 200 soldiers under my command (is there a force limit like in the original?   I think it was 256 troops?).  The UFO landing/crash missions are getting tedious so I think Juku is right about skipping or debugging my way through those.  That is what I ended up having to do in the Imperial Guard campaign of the 40k mod since there were so many missions and bases popping up that it just got to be too much.  Thanks for the advice!

Quote
Xpiratez is at least 5 times longer than XComFiles!

Holy shit.  :o

Quote
And due to codexes you are advised to play Xpiratez at least 4 times!

5 x 4 is 20...so 20 times longer than XComFiles.  What are these codexes and their frightening power?!  I think I'm going to have to comprise a list of questions and move over to the Xpiratez forum when I get ready to start the campaign.  When I entered XComFiles I had no idea what I was going into so I figure I might as well do some research before jumping into something that I won't finish until almost double my current lifespan. 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: lirukdatan on February 03, 2023, 11:55:22 pm
With the new update I can only select from about 10 faces, rest do not show up.

I also had this issue, but managed to fix it.
Open the file "vars_XCOMFILES.rul" in a text editor such as Notepad++.
In line 28 - "maxLookVariant: 17" change the number to "174"

Looks like it was a typo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 04, 2023, 04:53:19 am
I also had this issue, but managed to fix it.
Open the file "vars_XCOMFILES.rul" in a text editor such as Notepad++.
In line 28 - "maxLookVariant: 17" change the number to "174"

Looks like it was a typo.
No, 'maxlookvariant' only supports values up to 63 (or 15 for pre-7.8.7). Your change is equivalent to 'maxlookvariant: 14' (174 - 10*16 = 14), which means the last 28 variants are cut off. In 7.8.7, that moves to 174-64*2 = 46, so (46+1)*8 = 376 avatars, which makes them repeat.

Upgrade to 7.8.7.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: lirukdatan on February 04, 2023, 08:19:12 am
No, 'maxlookvariant' only supports values up to 63 (or 15 for pre-7.8.7). Your change is equivalent to 'maxlookvariant: 14' (174 - 10*16 = 14), which means the last 28 variants are cut off. In 7.8.7, that moves to 174-64*2 = 46, so (46+1)*8 = 376 avatars, which makes them repeat.

Upgrade to 7.8.7.

Never thought that there would be a calculation for the number of avatar faces. Now that I've counted the actual faces, it seems that I have about ~120 to choose from. Honestly, that's enough variety for me. I'll update when a stable version will be available. Don't want to risk it with preview builds.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 04, 2023, 12:29:57 pm
2.8 has 144 faces, 'maxlookvariant: 15' would let you access the first 8 of them. Although I guess 120 should be quite enough, and randomly generated soldiers still have access to the entire avatar set.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 04, 2023, 02:34:56 pm
Quick question which is not really independent to X com files but more open x com in general.

If I right click on the weapon in battlescape, a yellow dot become eliminated. What is this ?

(I'll try and post a photo later).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 04, 2023, 03:23:20 pm
Preferred reaction fire weapon toggle.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 04, 2023, 04:46:38 pm
Preferred reaction fire weapon toggle.
Great. Makes sense. thanks Juku.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 06, 2023, 03:12:17 am
Quote
savescumming
You wouldn't believe how salty I was after seeing them reload a dozen turns while doing the exact same thing - mostly rifle snap shots, overextending like they were trying to prove it works, getting lasered and occasianally rocketed back hard enough to make them reload - and then running into power armoured MiBs. They had no hope of piercing that with their rifles, but the guy doing said running into was their one and only swordsman (with Lo Wo's magic blade and wearing pajamas coveralls, no less) who proceeded to solo both the PA, a bunch of mooks and a Shock Armoured MiB. Who did precious little to fight back. Well, the PA guy got surprised stepping out of the craft and couldn't react with his minigun, but the others largely just stayed in their own rooms and took it.

Really made me wish for a better AI that did something evil to both the duo and Solarius' melee fetish. :-X
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Frenzyk on February 08, 2023, 09:16:07 am
How safe is upgrade from v.2.7 to 2.8. I'm on start of invasion(1990), only terminated Red dawn. Just got to dimension X. No shogg or underwater missions yet, first ghosts missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 08, 2023, 10:04:19 am
The further I go, the more I don't understand the mechanics of fire damage.
Don't think this is a bug, so replied here.

You could start by reading the Ufopedia (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Incendiary). That 90 is not fire damage, it's a number used to calculate the explosion radius. Edit: You can even see the actual damage by either selecting a fire mode and holding ALT, or ALT-hovering over the weapon in inventory.

I don't know why you think it 'destroys' alien drones. These have no fire resistance and 35 health, so you need 4 'hits' minimum (a turn being on fire also qualifies). The Fire Launcher does work better against large drones since fire damage ignores armour by default and hits all four tiles, so 60/(4*7.5) = 2 full hits to kill on average.


How safe is upgrade from v.2.7 to 2.8.
Pretty safe, barring the laser sniper issue. And you probably don't have those.



Since lots of players seem to think the accuracy multiplier is the most important statistic, how about making use of a feature that's been around for a while and including ranges in firing mode information?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Frenzyk on February 08, 2023, 06:38:53 pm
I upgraded from 2.7 to 2.8(deleted old mod folders and unpacked new). Now new version is for some reason brighter and it's annoying. Anybody knows how to fix that?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 08, 2023, 06:41:17 pm
Yes (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg152515.html#msg152515).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 12, 2023, 06:32:17 pm
@Solarius

Alien-tech related facilities (grav shield, labs, large workshop etc.) almost exclusively rely on elerium or alloys. The sensorium is a welcome change with using alien entertainment.

Do you have any plans to utilize other loot (like mulitools, welders, etc.) that don't really serve a purpose at the moment? For example multitools for some of the more advanced labs and welders for the workshop? It wouldn't be all that prohibitive, but it would actually add a purpose for these items.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 12, 2023, 07:44:37 pm
Do you have any plans to utilize other loot (like mulitools, welders, etc.) that don't really serve a purpose at the moment? For exmaple multitools for some of the more advanced labs and welders for the workshop? It wouldn't be all that prohibitive, but it would actually add a purpose for these items.

I really like this idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 15, 2023, 01:14:12 am
What ammo do turbolasers use? They do not have clips.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 15, 2023, 01:22:29 am
The wall socket back at the base. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Dreams_Of_Cheese on February 15, 2023, 09:22:54 am
This feels like a question that's been asked, but I can't find it on the search. I'm trying to make a particular gun function as a gun and as a flashlight just to ease inventory management a little bit for night missions. Is this possible, or am I bumping into an engine limitation or something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 15, 2023, 10:24:28 am
This feels like a question that's been asked, but I can't find it on the search. I'm trying to make a particular gun function as a gun and as a flashlight just to ease inventory management a little bit for night missions. Is this possible, or am I bumping into an engine limitation or something?

This sounds more like a general modding question related to OXC(E) and not something that is related to XCF. Why post this here and not in the dedicated "Help" subforum?

Also, when asking for modding related help it is generally beneficial to explain/list what you've tried so far that isn't working as expected. That way others don't have to guess what the issue might be.

That aside, a good starting point would be to look at the existing item you're trying to copy/modify in conjunction with the ruleset reference :
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#Naming.2C_Categorization_and_Storage

Look at the flare item you're probably using as a reference. What defines the light output of this item? For that matter, what makes an item act like a flare?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 15, 2023, 11:50:49 am
I don't think it can be done. Maybe there's some y-script magic that might help, but a cursory look didn't show anything one could use for that. I didn't even see a way to dynamically change armour lighting, for that matter.

Best ask in the y-script subforum (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/board,39.0.html).

You can have a melee weapon that is a flare/flashlight, as shown by the Mag-Lite.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 16, 2023, 06:44:31 pm
One thing that I would suggest is more visual diversity in Shogg. Right now the guys I want to capture look identical to the rest so the only way to capture them is to get lucky or capture the entire map which is tedious. So I would suggest setting them apart in some way like you do with other cult leaders.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 16, 2023, 07:01:07 pm
Which 'guys' do you mean? I'm only aware of two Shogg-oths sharing sprites: Reptoid big and biggest head honchos, and Engineers looking the same as regular Reptoids.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 16, 2023, 11:34:10 pm
Which 'guys' do you mean? I'm only aware of two Shogg-oths sharing sprites: Reptoid big and biggest head honchos, and Engineers looking the same as regular Reptoids.
The chieftains of the crab people and spider people. They look just the same as regular soldiers with no distinction.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 17, 2023, 12:07:11 am
Er, what?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 17, 2023, 01:06:59 pm
Er, what?
So the chief crab has eyes of a slightly different color? That's like 3 pixels worth. I literally can't see it without zooming into the image. And certainly not in the dark of the game.

The ant and spider are ok though. That's the way it should be. Big obvious difference that you can tell at a glance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 17, 2023, 03:20:14 pm
So the chief crab has eyes of a slightly different color? That's like 3 pixels worth. I literally can't see it without zooming into the image. And certainly not in the dark of the game.

lol wat?

(https://abload.de/img/inventory_scorpoidswc4n.png) (https://abload.de/img/inventory_scorpoid_chtgduq.png)

And since when has "the dark of the game" have anything to do with unit/inventory view? Brightness levels aren't even applied to those. You're perfectly able to differentiate those two units when you look at them.

This is what you see in-game (disregard the weapons):

(https://abload.de/img/screen006x0fl4.png) (https://abload.de/img/screen0074dfyo.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 17, 2023, 05:22:51 pm
Well maybe you can. But I have been playing this game for over a year now and newer even noticed that the two models have different eye colors or that it was in any way relevant. Certainly not any more relevant than the fact many other units in the game have several alternate models like male and female versions etc.

Bottom line is that they simply are not distinct enough for me to ever know the difference. Certainly not without being told. And that is an accessibility problem.

And no matter how hard you argue that you can see it does not change that any more than you arguing that you can easily climb a flight of stairs changes the fact someone else might not be able to.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 17, 2023, 05:46:08 pm
So, just to clarify, do Sectoid Commanders look distinct enough for you?

And, personally, I'm not a fan of game UI beating you over the head with information you can discover on your own. That's a fine line, of course, and clearly the Scorpoids fall on one side of it for me and krautbernd and the other for you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 17, 2023, 09:39:20 pm
So, just to clarify, do Sectoid Commanders look distinct enough for you?
No, but I didn't get to them yet. Ideally all commanders, leaders, engineers etc. would have little distinguishing features to let us tell them apart.

Quote
And, personally, I'm not a fan of game UI beating you over the head with information you can discover on your own. That's a fine line, of course, and clearly the Scorpoids fall on one side of it for me and krautbernd and the other for you.
That's the thing. How do you even know eye color is relevant in a mod where some creatures all share the same model and others (like humans for example) have multiple models for the same unit type.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 17, 2023, 10:43:09 pm
Ideally all commanders, leaders, engineers etc. would have little distinguishing features to let us tell them apart.

How is "distinct color of their giant eyes" not exactely that?

That's the thing. How do you even know eye color is relevant in a mod where some creatures all share the same model and others (like humans for example) have multiple models for the same unit type.
By noticing it? Any maybe by noticing that one of them seems to be a lot rarer than the other variant?

I guess you would have no idea that these might be different units either?

(https://abload.de/img/inventory_syndicate_m77ffb.png) (https://abload.de/img/inventory_syndicate_mezf56.png)

I mean, maybe one of them just happended to have a red sharpie.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 17, 2023, 10:53:36 pm
No, but I didn't get to them yet. Ideally all commanders, leaders, engineers etc. would have little distinguishing features to let us tell them apart.
But Sectoid Commanders do have a little distinguishing feature, unlike leaders, engineers, etc. About as big as a naked Sectoid can have. That's why I asked.

How do you even know eye color is relevant in a mod where some creatures all share the same model and others (like humans for example) have multiple models for the same unit type.
Me personally? Because I a) explore the shit out of the mod's data and b) notice that pretty much all the cases with multiple models amount to either a direct hair/clothes colour swap or are treated separately for research purposes. Red Dawn pioneers? Separate research for males and females. Black Lotus Hosts? Dye their hair. Syndicate Supersoldiers? Swap camo colours. Well, okay, the last I didn't notice until recently because I use Michelin Men. :)

And there are quite a few units where ranks have subtle differences. Syndicate Mercs from above, red vs plain Floaters, Hybrids with small but differently coloured shoulder pads; Machinobis and Assassins, for an extreme example. So I've learned to be careful, or just stun the lot and sort it out in research for future reference.


I don't really know which human faction you're referring to that has significantly different sprites for a singular unit that's not telegraphed in some way.


I do get where you're coming from, and my Sectoids have the circlets filter down to leaders, plus separate inventory sprites for non-soldiers and another one for engineers. Hybrids with sprites pilfered from Piratez that are more than just a colour swap. BL Warriors with sprites distinct from ninjas. Etc. But quite a few are still subtle, and I like that.

Scorpoids are a somewhat excessive case since they kinda blur into the surrounding cave terrain at the best of times, and can frequently have their backs turned so the eyes only stand out when you middle-click them. So the chiefs having at least some sort of distinct ceremonial weapon would be nice. Although when they actually face you, the laser eyes do stand out to me, three pixels or not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 18, 2023, 12:19:45 am
And there are quite a few units where ranks have subtle differences. Syndicate Mercs from above, red vs plain Floaters[...]
Just a small remark, but floaters come in a range of other exciting colors beside ... and red. For example blue, green, white and a different shade of blue! ;)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 18, 2023, 12:49:42 am
Just a small remark, but floaters come in a range of other exciting colors beside ... and red.
I'm aware. I think I was the one who inspired Solarius to port over the original versions of coloured Floaters and Snakemen in the first place. ;D

But red Floaters specifically are sometimes hard to tell apart from the regular purple ones. The rest are fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 18, 2023, 12:32:06 pm
the other variant?

I guess you would have no idea that these might be different units either?
No, not really. They look about the same to me.

This might shock you but not everyone here is a young man with good eyesight.

I had to spend several minutes staring at those images before I noticed that one of them has a different color in one small area. And I only noticed it because I knew that I was supposed to be looking for something so I spent time looking for it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 18, 2023, 03:46:31 pm
I don't think I can be called young any more, and good eyesight has never been a virtue of mine. I could still tell that the Merc Captains were different from regular Mercs even when I first ran into their tiny sprite form.

If you indeed spent literal minutes looking for the difference in the bigger inventory images, then I think your accessibility issues are vastly different from most others'. And catering to those means any visual subtlety at all would have to be left out of the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 18, 2023, 04:25:33 pm
I had to spend several minutes staring at those images before I noticed that one of them has a different color in one small area. And I only noticed it because I knew that I was supposed to be looking for something so I spent time looking for it.

Might I ask what desktop resolution you're using and if you're also using said resolution for OXCE? Also, have you considered consulting an ophthalmologist? Because as Juku pointed out, this sounds like your accessibility issues might have other reasons.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 18, 2023, 06:21:43 pm
Might I ask what desktop resolution you're using and if you're also using said resolution for OXCE? Also, have you considered consulting an ophthalmologist? Because as Juku pointed out, this sounds like your accessibility issues might have other reasons.
1920x1080 obviously. But it's not an issue of size. I see the images plenty well. They are about the same size on my monitor as they are in that file you attached which is good enough to spot differences if and when I know what I am looking for.

But that's the key here. You need to know what you are looking for and indeed that you are supposed to be looking for something in the first place. And if the only differences are small details tht can only be seen from one angle there is nothing to even tell me I am supposed to be looking for differences.

If it was up to me I'd have big obvious differences like capes, different colors of helmets or shoulderpads etc. You know, big obvious things that immediately catch your attention.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 18, 2023, 06:52:08 pm
But that's the key here. You need to know what you are looking for and indeed that you are supposed to be looking for something in the first place. And if the only differences are small details tht can only be seen from one angle there is nothing to even tell me I am supposed to be looking for differences.

If it was up to me I'd have big obvious differences like capes, different colors of helmets or shoulderpads etc. You know, big obvious things that immediately catch your attention.

But they can be seen from every angle. You just have to look at the unit disaply - which oyu would do anyway if you want to know what weapon they are carrying. And I think making them even more obvious would actually detract from the game. There's a reason that real-world security and military has no such obvious rank indicators.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on February 18, 2023, 09:21:23 pm
I like the color variants just fine. Helps me different who I need to stun after as needed, once I knew what colors were associated with what race/rank type. And the government thinks officially I have red/green color blindness + ophthalmologist says I have stigmatism developing in my R eye.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Maeroth on February 19, 2023, 05:34:33 pm
Hi, after trying version 2.8, here is what needs to be fixed:

-When I try to modify the appearance of a soldier, only 12 heads appear instead of the 72 that should be.

-craft:
ARROW
radarChance: 100
SKYRANGER
costBuy: 0
SKYRAIDER
costBuy: 0
radarChance: 100
INTERCEPTOR
costBuy: 0
costRent: 600000
costSell: 285000
[HEAVY_MISSILES]
DIMENSION_X_LANDING_PAD
soldiers: 1 (deployment: 24 slots)

missionScripts:
- type: MonsterHunSeveraCold2
not Several?

- type: hybridCloningFarmLate
STR_HYBRID_STORAGE: 100
not hybridStorageLate?

Great mod, I hope it continues to be successful.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: lirukdatan on February 19, 2023, 06:19:46 pm
I have several questions:

I've noticed that the large living quarters is designated as prison type 4, and has 5 such slots (with prison cells being #1, animal pen #2, ghost tank #3, and alien containment I assume is designated as zero). Who's type #4 then?

Also, are Master of {x} or Bane of {x} medals cumulative? Do their bonuses stack? Or is it better to have one level of each?
Oh and what are the requirements for the "commended" medal?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 19, 2023, 08:12:13 pm
Edit:
I can add more categories, but what exactly should be separated?
I gave it a brief try, and liked something along these lines quite a bit:

It's a major pain to rejiggle the IDs, though. :(
/edit



Who's type #4 then?
Robots.

Also, are Master of {x} or Bane of {x} medals cumulative? Do their bonuses stack?
Big time. ;D

Oh and what are the requirements for the "commended" medal?
"Total score earned by the soldier." Not sure what it actually means. Sum of scores from all missions they've participated in?



Edit2: Reply to Maeroth moved to bug thread.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Maeroth on February 19, 2023, 08:26:33 pm
Not (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5047.msg152515.html#msg152515) a mod issue. Upgrade to OXCE 7.8.7 or later.

I think it's a bug, i have OXCE 7.8 and I can only change 12 aspects of the 72 that exist.

I have only copied the rest of the opinions of other players who have tried this new version and have downloaded it from mod io.

I don't think chasing after small technical details that have zero impact on gameplay is a good use of Solarius' time.


If you say so, it will be so. I've only come to report bugs that didn't happen before with previous versions, but if that doesn't deserve the modder's attention, fine. I see what the opinion of someone who is playing the mod counts.
What a community, I will not write anything here again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: The Martian on February 19, 2023, 08:55:06 pm
I think it's a bug, i have OXCE 7.8 and I can only change 12 aspects of the 72 that exist.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the official download & installation guide (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html?PHPSESSID=fbl74c1phruiv3hid3tp9k39q4) post there is a section that says:
"Looking for bleeding edge OXCE nightly preview builds? Try here: https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended (https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended)"

That is where you can find version 7.8.7 of OXCE which from what I've read should correct the bug you are experiencing.

The version on mod.io is only V7.8 not 7.8.7. The newer 7.8.7 I believe can only be obtained currently from this location: https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended (https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: lirukdatan on February 19, 2023, 10:09:53 pm
Quote
Also, are Master of {x} or Bane of {x} medals cumulative? Do their bonuses stack?

Quote
Big time. ;D

I am asking because after one of my agents improved his "master of grenade" to level 3 after a mission, I noticed he actually lost 1 point in melee and throwing accuracy skills. He already had mastery of a different weapon at level 3, so it looks like the bonus didn't stack. Not that I mind, there's plenty of stats to go around with all the cool medals and achievements. Just wanted to make sure I understand the mechanics.

(I've attached a screenshot of the agent's stats, and here's a link as well)

https://imgur.com/a/0Mw0Yxo
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 19, 2023, 10:21:48 pm
Kinda hard to say what's going on with Mr. Rojas without a save.

Edit: Actually, he seems to have lost a level 2 Master of ... commendation. Or improved a level 2 and lost a level 3. Which matches up with one less Throwing and Melee.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: lirukdatan on February 20, 2023, 12:26:50 am
Quote
Kinda hard to say what's going on with Mr. Rojas without a save.

Edit: Actually, he seems to have lost a level 2 Master of ... commendation. Or improved a level 2 and lost a level 3. Which matches up with one less Throwing and Melee.

That's what I'm saying. An agent has several weapons at "master of" at level 3. He improved a weapon from 2 to 3. This resulted in no "master of" at level 2, and one more at level 3. This also resulted in loss of stat due to the loss of "master of" at level 2.

So these commendations are not cumulative?

In order to get the most of it, I assume that an agent should therefore have one of each rank by stopping using different weapons at 15, 25, 40, 60, 80, 100, 150 etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 20, 2023, 01:07:56 am
So these commendations are not cumulative?

In order to get the most of it, I assume that an agent should therefore have one of each rank by stopping using different weapons at 15, 25, 40, 60, 80, 100, 150 etc.
You're right, only one level per commendation type is actually active. This is probably something to report to OXCE devs, if it's to be fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on February 20, 2023, 06:30:36 pm
If you say so, it will be so. I've only come to report bugs that didn't happen before with previous versions, but if that doesn't deserve the modder's attention, fine. I see what the opinion of someone who is playing the mod counts.
What a community, I will not write anything here again.

None of what you're reporting here are bugs though. The issue with faces is down to you using an outadted OXCE version, while the latter is not a bug. Naming of missions/deployments/etc is arbitrary, even more so since these aren't exposed to the player. Spelling etc. would only be an issue if it occurs in the language file.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 21, 2023, 12:31:47 pm
I think it's a bug, i have OXCE 7.8 and I can only change 12 aspects of the 72 that exist.

I have only copied the rest of the opinions of other players who have tried this new version and have downloaded it from mod io.


If you say so, it will be so. I've only come to report bugs that didn't happen before with previous versions, but if that doesn't deserve the modder's attention, fine. I see what the opinion of someone who is playing the mod counts.
What a community, I will not write anything here again.

I know exactly what your talking about. I'm running version 7.8 and I see all these things as well. I've just been too lazy to install the github version (7.8.7).

Don't take things too personal here, most of us just got done killing a bunch of aliens, then we come here and sometimes confuse other members as Ethrals  :D

Seriously, don't let difference of opinions make you walk away. Not just here either. In life as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Akamashi on February 22, 2023, 07:01:18 am
Finished the veteran iron man game. Eh, it was the best virtual adventure in the last many years. A low bow to all who participated in the creation of xcf. It's a pity that I don't have the opportunity to participate in the creation of content. I'll rest for a month, and I'll risk starting on a superhuman.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2023, 12:34:07 pm
-craft:
ARROW
radarChance: 100
SKYRANGER
costBuy: 0
SKYRAIDER
costBuy: 0
radarChance: 100
INTERCEPTOR
costBuy: 0
costRent: 600000
costSell: 285000
[HEAVY_MISSILES]
DIMENSION_X_LANDING_PAD
soldiers: 1 (deployment: 24 slots)

Sorry, but what is this supposed to tell me? Are these actual bugs?

missionScripts:
- type: MonsterHunSeveraCold2
not Several?

Yes, it's a typo, but it doesn't matter - it is an internal only ID. I fixed it anyway.

- type: hybridCloningFarmLate
STR_HYBRID_STORAGE: 100
not hybridStorageLate?

It looks different in my file... O_o

Code: [Select]
  - type: hybridCloningFarmLate
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 6
    missionWeights:
      0:
        STR_HYBRID_CLONING_FARM: 100
    useTable: false
    regionWeights: *HybridFarmRegions
    researchTriggers:
      STR_HYBRID_CLONING_FARM: true
    startDelay: 20
    randomDelay: 43500

Great mod, I hope it continues to be successful.

Thank you, and thanks for the report!

I've noticed that the large living quarters is designated as prison type 4, and has 5 such slots (with prison cells being #1, animal pen #2, ghost tank #3, and alien containment I assume is designated as zero). Who's type #4 then?

It's robotic units. I had to add an alien type for them, since they are, after all, units, and treating them completely like items caused some minor issues (they weren't mentioned on the debriefing screen).
Bascially all buildings which provide storage have these "cells for robotic prisoners".
Oh and what are the requirements for the "commended" medal?
[/quote]

Edit:I gave it a brief try, and liked something along these lines quite a bit:
  • HWPs.
  • [Enemies & Allies]
  • [Outfits]
  • Unarmed as its own category or moved to Outfits.
  • Weapons.
  • Explosives.
  • Melee weapons, thrown, crossbows, etc.
  • Tools and equipment. Pickaxes, cutters, staplers etc can perhaps be moved here as well.
  • Alien artifacts. Actual alien ones, that is.
  • Strange artifacts. Stuff from cults, other conspiracies (like Cyberweb guns or Shogg tribal weapons), Hybrids, etc.
  • Misc items. All the IDs, floppies, bones, cash, etc.
  • [Containers]

Thanks.
I think so many categories are excessive, but we can go a little bit in that direction. for now I made a new section for AI-related stuff (armours and weapons) and switched some articles to more fitting sections (for example unarmed attacks are now in the Outfits section, not in the Weapons and Equipment). Now I'm considering splitting Weapons and Equipment into... well, "Weapons" and "Equipment".
Rejiggling the IDs is some work, but not a huge deal.

Finished the veteran iron man game. Eh, it was the best virtual adventure in the last many years. A low bow to all who participated in the creation of xcf. It's a pity that I don't have the opportunity to participate in the creation of content. I'll rest for a month, and I'll risk starting on a superhuman.

Congrats!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 24, 2023, 06:06:29 pm
Since it came up in the submod thread and maybe got overlooked in the main thread, I'll ask again:
Since lots of players seem to think the accuracy multiplier is the most important statistic, how about making use of a feature that's been around for a while and including ranges in firing mode information?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 24, 2023, 06:26:47 pm
Do multiple defense buildings stack? As in is it worth having more than one of them? Also, is it worth not deleting my old obsolete ones when I build a new shiny one next to it?

Also if they do stack how many total defense points are enough to make sure I am basically OP and be boarded?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 24, 2023, 06:46:50 pm
Yes, they stack. Whether they're worth it... If you have a lot of free space and no patience for base defence missions, then yes. Otherwise, probably not.

The old one will still contribute to shooting down attacking UFOs, so technically, yes.

Defence points themselves aren't all that indicative of capability since the guns have a chance to miss. Some have even a 50% chance.

Battleships have 4000 damage, and unlike interceptions you need to remove every single damage point during base defence. The best defence facility is Fusion with 1200/80%. Base defences do 50-150 damage if my recollection is right. So 600 per in the worst case, which means you need 7 shots to hit to be sure. As RNG likes to fuck you over, to be nearly certain (<5% chance of them piercing the defences even if you roll minimal damage for all the shots), you'd need 12 facilities. Grav Shield allows you one reuse of each, so 6 Fusion defences and a Grav Shield if you want to be 99%+ sure.

You can probably gamble for average damage being ~1200 and ~2/3 shots hitting, so 3-4 Fusion defences and a Grav Shield should work fine most of the time. If you use less advanced defences, you need more of them, of course.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Mathel on February 24, 2023, 06:54:16 pm
Do multiple defense buildings stack? As in is it worth having more than one of them? Also, is it worth not deleting my old obsolete ones when I build a new shiny one next to it?

Also if they do stack how many total defense points are enough to make sure I am basically OP and be boarded?
They stack additively. By default, each defensive building fires once when your base is assaulted.
Additionaly, each Grav Shield adds a round to the landing phase, allowing all weapons to refire.

 The big question is whether UFO's armor counts during the landing phase.

If it does not, the beefiest craft that is going to attack you is the Battleship with 4000 health.
So I'd say that with 8000 adjusted defensive points (Defensive power * accuracy) for low accuracy weapons, or 5000 adjusted defensive points for high accuracy weapons, you will be safe. If a weapon was guaranteed to hit, then 4000 defensive points would be always enough.

If armor counts, it is not so simple. In such case, you would get more use out of high-powered defenses, than out of low powered.
A battleship has 60 Armor. So if it counts 3 400 strenght defenses will deal 1020 damage, where a 1200 strength defense would do 1140 damage (assuming all hit in either case).


With 3 Fusion Defenses and 1 Grav shield, a base should be almost completely safe either way.
With Missile Defenses, I'd say you would need to have 16 to be completely safe (or 4 MDs and 3 Grav shields).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 24, 2023, 07:15:39 pm
Armour does not count.

3 Fusion defences is not yet nearly totaly safety, you might reasonably expect to roll badly and get ~1000 average per shot and miss 2/6 shots, which is right at the edge of the Battleship's durability. It'll work fine in the vast majority of situations, but there's still a nontrivial chance that the aliens get through. I'd guess a few percentage points? Too lazy to calculate right now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 24, 2023, 10:14:46 pm
So what you are saying is that base defenses do between 50% and 150% of their rated damage, that they do stack and that fusion has a 80% accuracy? Am I reading that correctly?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2023, 10:55:27 pm
Since lots of players seem to think the accuracy multiplier is the most important statistic, how about making use of a feature that's been around for a while and including ranges in firing mode information?

I'm actually considering this. I can't decide if it's more of a clutter or actually useful, though. (I guess it depends on the player.)

Battleships have 4000 damage, and unlike interceptions you need to remove every single damage point during base defence. (...)

Please note that I've recently added lighter base assaults, the smallest one being literally a Sentry Ship.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 24, 2023, 11:00:14 pm
I don't have a reference for the 50-150, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere.

They do stack in the sense that each fires a shot. Accuracies are shown in the Ufopedia.

There is a Monte Carlo simulator that uses the same assumptions here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8460.0.html). According to that, 3 Fusion defences plus a Grav Shield (or 2 and 2) are ~88.9% effective vs a single Battleship, and 4 Fusion + GS (or 2 and 3) are ~98.5% effective. 5 + 1 (or 2 and 4) are ~99.85% and 6+1 (or 2+5) are 99.99%+ vs a single Battleship and ~98.8% vs 100 consecutive Battleships.



I'm actually considering this. I can't decide if it's more of a clutter or actually useful, though.
My point is that even people who are aware of ANAL can be easily led to believe that the accuracy multiplier is all that effects their accuracy when choosing their weapons based on Ufopedia information, and are unlikely to change their choice afterwards unless something big tells them otherwise.

So it's more of a casual player convenience/tutorial. Veterans want to examine the full info anyway, for toHealth/armor penetration/damage rolls etc. Or just play and find out.

Please note that I've recently added lighter base assaults, the smallest one being literally a Sentry Ship.
Good! Although that doesn't matter if one is after near-total imperviousness, as PPQ seems to be here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on February 24, 2023, 11:33:56 pm
Cool. Thanks you guys. All I had thought of to do was make a chart in excel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2023, 11:51:52 pm
By the way, guys, how many levels of retaliation should there be in your opinion?

For now there are retaliations using:
- Sentry Ship,
- Saboteur (a new, medium-sized UFO; something like a mini-Terror Ship),
- Battleship (vanilla),
- Dreadnought (special late-game event, but still repeatable).
(Other factions not included.)

Do you think it's enough? I hope so, since every mission is extra work; but it's not a bad kind of work, so if you think something is missing, feel free to bring it up. Also feel free to suggest a particular UFO if you want, but note that it can't have any other ground missions (so for example all types of terror ships are right out).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 24, 2023, 11:59:38 pm
Neat!

Something medium-large as well, perhaps? Does the Troop Ship qualify? Cruisers seem to be out, and Contact Ships are probably lore-inappropriate.

I'd kinda like to see an Abductor full of Sectoids with whips, Small Launchers and similar gear, for the laughs, but alas...

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on February 25, 2023, 06:45:26 am
I like aggressive alien retaliation/MiB retaliation. More variety/tiers is welcome from my POV.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 25, 2023, 05:19:00 pm
Something medium-large as well, perhaps? Does the Troop Ship qualify? Cruisers seem to be out, and Contact Ships are probably lore-inappropriate.

Troop Ships have their own terror mission, so no.
However... I could make an exact copy of the Troop Ship and use it for X-Com base assaults. (Same with the Cruiser actually.) It is not very elegant code-wise, but might be more elegant gameplay-wise than adding some new UFO (which is also an option).

I'd kinda like to see an Abductor full of Sectoids with whips, Small Launchers and similar gear, for the laughs, but alas...

As a joke submod, sure, easily doable. :)

I like aggressive alien retaliation/MiB retaliation. More variety/tiers is welcome from my POV.

You mean the aggressive retaliation option? Or do you just want more base defence missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 25, 2023, 05:23:29 pm
If so, then the Troop Ship seems more appropriate. Only one mission where it's involved, and it seems to be the aliens' dedicated ground assault vessel. Hard to kill with interceptors, too.

Five tiers of base assault craft line up with five difficulty levels as well. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 25, 2023, 05:32:31 pm
If so, then the Troop Ship seems more appropriate. Only one mission where it's involved, and it seems to be the aliens' dedicated ground assault vessel. Hard to kill with interceptors, too.

OK, I'll make a Troop Ship variant just for this.

Five tiers of base assault craft line up with five difficulty levels as well. :)

Yeah... Then again, we can always add a Demigod variant with something really unreasonable. :D (Although I doubt anything stronger than the Big D. would make sense.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on February 25, 2023, 08:58:56 pm

You mean the aggressive retaliation option? Or do you just want more base defence missions?

Both. I like the enemy attacking me and not feel like I am the only player doing anything in the campaign.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 25, 2023, 09:13:47 pm
Both. I like the enemy attacking me and not feel like I am the only player doing anything in the campaign.

There should be a bit more retaliations from now on, but it's not a huge difference.
They used to be far more frequent in the past, but players complained that it takes too much time and isn't that interesting.

BTW I added this Troop Ship variant, and the associated retaliation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 26, 2023, 11:50:56 pm
Curious about the black lotus assassins.
They have like a stealth mode, they can't be seen unless your standing a mere few tiles away from them.

Is there a way to posses this power for your own soldiers?
I thought it might have been Martial Arts, but not sure.

Thanks
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 27, 2023, 03:51:58 am
Is there a way to posses this power for your own soldiers?
Not really. OXC(E) doesn't do player stealth particularly well.

The closest we have right now are rats and bats. I swear, there are going to be turtles next... :P

I had a Stealth Suit a long time ago. It did the ninja trick, it was passable armour and it used the same loftemps hack Piratez catgirls of old used to have. So could only be seen diagonally, and were very hard to hit directly. Was interesting, but not quite invulnerability since explosives still worked very well. And I gave the aliens a portable plasma cannon, too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Akamashi on February 27, 2023, 09:18:32 am
Curious about the black lotus assassins.
They have like a stealth mode, they can't be seen unless your standing a mere few tiles away from them.

Is there a way to posses this power for your own soldiers?
I thought it might have been Martial Arts, but not sure.

Thanks
Assassins - Ninja clan warriors. They have been training their skill to use camouflage since birth. Our agents are not going to get that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 27, 2023, 11:57:58 am
Not really. OXC(E) doesn't do player stealth particularly well.

Indeed; having access to such stealth would make virtually all enemies completely helpless. Maybe except for those with very strong psi vision.

The closest we have right now are rats and bats. I swear, there are going to be turtles next... :P

Ninja turtles!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 27, 2023, 01:28:18 pm
Thanks for the reply's everyone. that cleared it up perfectly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 27, 2023, 02:15:51 pm
Indeed; having access to such stealth would make virtually all enemies completely helpless.
Not quite, you still have to hit them to kill/stun them, and that reveals you. There's also the turn 20 omniscience, visibility persisting through turns and spotter extras. Plus, you never really know if the aliens have eyes on a particular soldier or not, since there's no UI for it. In general, player stealth tends to be very binary, it's either OP or useless.

X-Com was not a game built with stealth in mind, and making it one is outside the scope of most fan works. We've got some small advancements with OXCE, but a bunch of visibility checks does not make it a tactical stealth game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 27, 2023, 02:51:50 pm
You are right of course, but it still falls under helpless IMO.

(https://cdn-icons-png.flaticon.com/512/5894/5894028.png)

I'm only stating this again to make it very clear that the idea is not good, design-wise. Not on this engine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 28, 2023, 01:25:37 pm
I agree that giving every soldier this power would tilt the scales.

However, not every black lotus member has it. I was thinking more along the lines of only certain soldiers being able to attain this by either:
- having certain stats above a threshold ?
- completed all transformations ?
- A facility which can only train 1 soldier at a time ?

But I also understand it is probably very difficult to implement this. So no worries, was only asking.

Assassins - Ninja clan warriors. They have been training their skill to use camouflage since birth. Our agents are not going to get that.

You're right.
But Ethrals have been doing the same with PSI.. And we can use it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 28, 2023, 02:12:19 pm
Even if you add requirements, players will simply beeline to meet them, and give it to all agents anyway. It's just so good.

However, there is a decent solution available already: it's called the rat. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on February 28, 2023, 02:29:43 pm
Fortunately or unfortunately, soldier bonuses can't change visibility.

I wouldn't mind an extremely advanced armour that turns an agent into a super-rat. ;D Aliens with psi vision, urban/cave/base combat with short ranges, and various other things mentioned before would still counter that. And it'd be a way to cut down the lategame tedium. Would likely need a tech level where you could already end the game, or go and research the invisibility suit instead.

Or perhaps a ninja version of Night Ops armour that'd give ratlike night visibility, but no daytime advantage.

Well, not likely to happen in the main game, but if one is motivated enough, they can do their own stealth armour mod.


As an aside, one thing that's been puzzling me for a while: why do aliens not have perfect night vision anymore?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Chuckebaby on February 28, 2023, 06:04:57 pm
A stealth armor is a great idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: SIMON BAILIE on February 28, 2023, 07:09:55 pm
Here is a mod I found that I still have a copy of, tested on oxce v7.89. There is a problem with it per log file, not sure how to correct this myself. But it does offer limited stealth abilities.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 01, 2023, 01:23:25 pm
As an aside, one thing that's been puzzling me for a while: why do aliens not have perfect night vision anymore?

Huh? All 5 vanilla races still have NV 20.
Or am I misunderstanding?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 01, 2023, 04:21:05 pm
Vanilla aliens had 20/20 night/day vision. Now they have 20/40 or so.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 01, 2023, 06:10:08 pm
Vanilla aliens had 20/20 night/day vision. Now they have 20/40 or so.

Ah, that's what you meant. Yeah, somehow I never even considered extending night vision range as well... Just feels like a weird idea. Doesn't speak to me at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 01, 2023, 06:55:45 pm
So, XCF replaces the classic "Plasma bolts from pitch black darkness killed half my squad, and I haven't even seen a single alien yet! What gives?!" experience with "The bugs are firing hot flaming plasma at me, and I can't even begin to spot them in the night. Fortunately, sniper-spotter and no-LoS accuracy penalty means they miss!"?

Can't say this change speaks to me, but to each their own. :-\
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: amokk_gw on March 01, 2023, 07:59:17 pm
Is it possible to update the mod in the middle of a save game or does every new minor version of the mod require a new save file?

Also there are certain items, where I have no clue where to find them such as the anti-matter containment. I know you can complete the research by just interrogating a bunch of engineers, but where is the fun in that. Is there a way to look up in which mission items like these occur?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on March 01, 2023, 08:30:21 pm
Is it normal that golden ships just don't spawn? Like I had exactly one spawn in my game, I shot it down over water not knowing that I shouldn't and now a year later I am yet to get another.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 01, 2023, 10:26:44 pm
Is it possible to update the mod in the middle of a save game or does every new minor version of the mod require a new save file?
You can update a save/an ongoing game, but you should not update during battlescape/combat because it can casue bugs and/or crashes.

Also there are certain items, where I have no clue where to find them such as the anti-matter containment. I know you can complete the research by just interrogating a bunch of engineers, but where is the fun in that. Is there a way to look up in which mission items like these occur?
Not all research topics have associated items you can recover, some (most? I have no clue what the actual percentage is) can only be obtained via interrogation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: DoxaLogos (JG) on March 01, 2023, 10:54:53 pm
With all the discussion on stealth armour and me being quite a newb at modding, does the camouflage feature work against the AI at all?   Sorry if I missed this already with such a long thread.

I was looking at the X-COM liquidator armor (which looks fantastic btw),  I wish it had a bonus camo perk at night from a thematic standpoint. 

From what I read of it's stats, there really is no advantage over the armored vest other than getting a hold of some early by capturing Exalt Liquidators before being able to research armored vests.

If it had an ability to at least reduce visibilty at night from the enemy (yes work against you too on exalt missions), it would make night missions more interesting on cult raids.  Doesn't get around the sniper-spotter AI stuff I assume, but still.  It could possibly provide another reason to acquire it after armored vests are researched other than saving some cash.

Personally, I'm tempted to change the spritesheet on the armored vest to look like the Liquidator armor, because it just looks so cool :)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 01, 2023, 11:17:51 pm
I know you can complete the research by just interrogating a bunch of engineers, but where is the fun in that. Is there a way to look up in which mission items like these occur?
The fun is in bonking the engineers over their pointy alien heads. :D

Many things can be looked up by using some sort of grep tool to look through .rul files. Notepad++ is a popular choice, because that's one of its many useful features. The one thing that's really hard to look for is items tied to specific map items/MCDs, because there's no tool for searching the map files themselves.

Is it normal that golden ships just don't spawn? Like I had exactly one spawn in my game...
Yeah. This mod is full of small-percentage stuff like that. The Envoy Ships have an under 3% cumulative chance to spawn per month. But it's random, so you might get three in a row and then go three years without.

With all the discussion on stealth armour and me being quite a newb at modding, does the camouflage feature work against the AI at all?
It does. But there are lots of caveats, many of which I've already mentioned. So you need to be very careful, but if you succeed the enemies are hosed.

I was looking at the X-COM liquidator armor (which looks fantastic btw),  I wish it had a bonus camo perk at night from a thematic standpoint. 

If it had an ability to at least reduce visibilty at night from the enemy (yes work against you too on exalt missions), it would make night missions more interesting on cult raids.
Check my new submod. The Black Ops ninja suit is pretty much Night Ops/Liquidator plus night camo and minus most armour (hey, there's got to be drawbacks!).

From what I read of it's stats, there really is no advantage over the armored vest other than getting a hold of some early by capturing Exalt Liquidators before being able to research armored vests.
It has +3 night vision in exchange for a little bit of extra weight and a a few more points of stat maluses.

Personally, I'm tempted to change the spritesheet on the armored vest to look like the Liquidator armor, because it just looks so cool
There's an IMO even cooler version (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5215.msg146753.html#msg146753) I'm using for the "We are the UN Black Ops. Fear us!" feeling. 8)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: DoxaLogos (JG) on March 01, 2023, 11:27:58 pm
It does. But there are lots of caveats, many of which I've already mentioned. So you need to be very careful, but if you succeed the enemies are hosed.
Cool.  Of course I was only thinking of a minor buff, nothing too severe.
 
Check my new submod. The Black Ops ninja suit is pretty much Night Ops/Liquidator plus night camo and minus most armour (hey, there's got to be drawbacks!).

I'll have to give it a shot.

It has +3 night vision in exchange for a little bit of extra weight and a a few more points of stat maluses.

Ah... I missed that part.   I'll have to look it over again.

There's an IMO even cooler version (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5215.msg146753.html#msg146753) I'm using for the "We are the UN Black Ops. Fear us!" feeling. 8)

Yeah, I just saw that perusing the thread. Looks great.   I feel like this mod needs more black armors :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: amokk_gw on March 01, 2023, 11:38:07 pm
Not all research topics have associated items you can recover, some (most? I have no clue what the actual percentage is) can only be obtained via interrogation.

It says that the research requires the Anti-Matter Containment item, so that's why I'm asking where to find it. You can also get research by just getting lucky and interrogating an engineer, but I'd rather look for the item, that's more fun.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 02, 2023, 12:05:49 am
The tech items are there for technical reasons. You don't find them in-game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on March 02, 2023, 12:10:29 pm
Howdey. Since I can't send PMs just yet in this forum, then I will ask here: may I upload this swelltastic mod to ModDb (under X-Com UFO Defense game page), please? Also, since as of lately I'm always trying to make an installer for the mod, so the end user wouldn't have to mess up too much during the process, what about making one for the modification as well?

A bundled pack of X-Com Files, together with OXCE, and paths finder, to extract the needed original files from the UFOs installations?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Akamashi on March 03, 2023, 09:27:26 pm
Howdey. Since I can't send PMs just yet in this forum, then I will ask here: may I upload this swelltastic mod to ModDb (under X-Com UFO Defense game page), please? Also, since as of lately I'm always trying to make an installer for the mod, so the end user wouldn't have to mess up too much during the process, what about making one for the modification as well?

A bundled pack of X-Com Files, together with OXCE, and paths finder, to extract the needed original files from the UFOs installations?
On the one hand, this is a very good idea. But on the other hand, this means distributing the files of the original xcom. Malicious piracy!!!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 03, 2023, 09:34:46 pm
I don't think Czudak meant to distribute the original files, merely to produce an installer that'd copy them over from Steam or wherever else.

Whether Solarius wants more sources of XCF and thus more potentially out of date versions floating around the web is different matter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2023, 03:28:59 pm
So, XCF replaces the classic "Plasma bolts from pitch black darkness killed half my squad, and I haven't even seen a single alien yet! What gives?!" experience with "The bugs are firing hot flaming plasma at me, and I can't even begin to spot them in the night. Fortunately, sniper-spotter and no-LoS accuracy penalty means they miss!"?

Can't say this change speaks to me, but to each their own. :-\

I think it's the first time anyone complained that aliens are not hardcore enough.
O_o

The idea of outright ignoring darkness just feels pretty exotic to me... How would the even do that? They already see in the dark far better than any Earth equipment allows. Not saying it's scientifically impossible, but it still feel kinda off.
Naturally, some aliens have psi vision, which in some rare cases can reach almost as far as standard day vision.

Is it possible to update the mod in the middle of a save game or does every new minor version of the mod require a new save file?

Generally yes; if there is an issue, I always mention it, usually with some instructions on how to update your save. And like Krautbernd said, doing this in battlescape is often a bad idea.

Also there are certain items, where I have no clue where to find them such as the anti-matter containment. I know you can complete the research by just interrogating a bunch of engineers, but where is the fun in that. Is there a way to look up in which mission items like these occur?

It's not an item in the first place. Why would it be an item? That's like expecting photosynthesis or oil refining to be an item to be found and examined... It's an engineering concept, not a physical object.

Is it normal that golden ships just don't spawn? Like I had exactly one spawn in my game, I shot it down over water not knowing that I shouldn't and now a year later I am yet to get another.

With how rare they are, I'd say it's 100% normal. They are not required to complete the game anyway.

The tech items are there for technical reasons. You don't find them in-game.

No, I swear that there is no such item as STR_ANTIMATTER_CONTAINMENT, technical or not. There's only research and Pedia article.

Howdey. Since I can't send PMs just yet in this forum, then I will ask here: may I upload this swelltastic mod to ModDb (under X-Com UFO Defense game page), please? Also, since as of lately I'm always trying to make an installer for the mod, so the end user wouldn't have to mess up too much during the process, what about making one for the modification as well?

A bundled pack of X-Com Files, together with OXCE, and paths finder, to extract the needed original files from the UFOs installations?

I guess it won't hurt. I'd prefer to keep it in one place for better information, but if you have a good reason, I don't think it's a problem, as long as you do proper crediting (not just for me, there's a number of people who are also significantly involved in making XCF).
Still, I'd like to know the reason. Is it because people from a certain region can't access mod.io?

About OXCE and other components, you'd have to ask their respective authors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 04, 2023, 04:20:09 pm
I think it's the first time anyone complained that aliens are not hardcore enough.
Well, there's now an entire fork of OXCE based on that idea... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The idea of outright ignoring darkness just feels pretty exotic to me... How would the even do that?
E.g. thermal vision, advanced echolocation, some other sort of active illumination using non-human-visible wavelengths.

It's not an item in the first place. Why would it be an item?
...
No, I swear that there is no such item as STR_ANTIMATTER_CONTAINMENT, technical or not.
Yeah, right. My bad. :-[ Although there are tech concepts that are also items for Ufopedia display purposes, like Delta Radiation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on March 04, 2023, 04:57:18 pm
Quote
I guess it won't hurt. I'd prefer to keep it in one place for better information, but if you have a good reason, I don't think it's a problem, as long as you do proper crediting (not just for me, there's a number of people who are also significantly involved in making XCF).
Still, I'd like to know the reason. Is it because people from a certain region can't access mod.io?

About OXCE and other components, you'd have to ask their respective authors.

I'm a modder myself and I presented this mod on my Discord server to some people, in private, knowing they would be interested. However, even with my "condensed" installation guide, half of them failed to install successfully... so, it would be better for me to make the installer and distribute the mod that way. And since I uploaded many mods to ModDb, being a "regular customer" there for almost a decade now, then this is only a natural thing to upload XCF as well.

I wouldn't worry about having an outdated version on ModDb, since every 2 months I reupload the old files with the newer versions if available. Also, since this project is open source, I can make the NSIS script open source too, so anyone interested could check, edit, and compile it themselves.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 04, 2023, 05:55:00 pm
However, even with my "condensed" installation guide, half of them failed to install successfully...

Honestly I find this more concerning than whether or not you should be "allowed" to create and upload the installer to moddb in the first place. Installing XCF (or mods in general" for OXCE is pretty much as straight forward as it gets. What exactely were the problems your audience ran into if I might ask? Was this an issue of imprecise instructions, IT illiteracy or some other underlaying issue?

The mod already comes with a readme explaining how to install and enable the mod. If people are having trouble following these, maybe the instruction itself need to be reworded or corrected?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 04, 2023, 08:38:17 pm
E.g. thermal vision, advanced echolocation, some other sort of active illumination using non-human-visible wavelengths.

But such abilities are usually also covered by psi vision... Even if it's not psi-based at all (for example the "tremor sense" some monsters have).
And again: NV 20 is already better than anything Earthlings have, even those with access to sci-fi tech. So they are still the best.
Also, there's one more thing: missed plasma shots cause fires, illuminating everything around and effectively eliminating darkness in the first place.

Yeah, right. My bad. :-[ Although there are tech concepts that are also items for Ufopedia display purposes, like Delta Radiation.

Right, it's a minuscule detail anyway. I only explained to avoid any confusion.

Honestly I find this more concerning than whether or not you should be "allowed" to create and upload the installer to moddb in the first place. Installing XCF (or mods in general" for OXCE is pretty much as straight forward as it gets. What exactely were the problems your audience ran into if I might ask? Was this an issue of imprecise instructions, IT illiteracy or some other underlaying issue?

The mod already comes with a readme explaining how to install and enable the mod. If people are having trouble following these, maybe the instruction itself need to be reworded or corrected?

Yes, I also can't see how putting it on ModDB makes any difference... Unless you put the whole game there.

Not sure how to make the instruction any clearer. Anyone should be able to follow steps this simple.

Not gonna lie, it sounds a bit suspicious to me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 04, 2023, 09:06:18 pm
But such abilities are usually also covered by psi vision...
Eh, if you really want them to be. Psi vision goes through walls, thermal vision should have trouble with thick ones or several, echolocation or UV radar shouldn't go through at all. Psi also has its own defences and stuff.

I'd also be happy if most aliens had 40 psi vision and you had to wear psi camo to those missions, but, heh... :D

And again: NV 20 is already better than anything Earthlings have, even those with access to sci-fi tech.
While that's true, engagement ranges themselves have changed compared to vanilla. What used to be the longest range possible is mid-range in XCF, and there are a lot of new factions in-between OG X-Com and aliens. So the latter no longer have the same comparative advantage.

Also, advanced armour reduces the aliens' advantage a lot. Some armours even eliminate it (almost) completely.

Also, there's one more thing: missed plasma shots cause fires, illuminating everything around and effectively eliminating darkness in the first place.
Yeah, but my original point was that the aliens tend to miss, so that's not something the AI can do reliably. Of course, vanilla AI can't really do much anything reliably, so there's that.


OTOH, with the addition of snipers, Extender accuracy, lots of new weapons and equipment, etc, the situation is already quite different from vanilla. I just wish night missions against aliens still had the 'deadly plasma from darkness' vibe that made generations of players wary of night missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on March 04, 2023, 10:21:45 pm
Quote
Yes, I also can't see how putting it on ModDB makes any difference... Unless you put the whole game there.

Not sure how to make the instruction any clearer. Anyone should be able to follow steps this simple.

Not gonna lie, it sounds a bit suspicious to me.

OK, one more time: there are people out there who are unable to fix up a combined OXCE + XCF installation with all those lengthy steps of copying original X-COM games' files from places, especially since there are multiple folders that aren't in the same location involved, but they want to play the modification. This is a common occurrence, trust me; "zoomers" are like that; to you (and other people here) it's a regular Monday, since you, 100% guaranteed, played this game(s) on an ancient 486 DOS machine (I know I did), so you know how it all goes. Normally, I would just make the installer for them only but since I don't like my work to go to waste on only several people, I wanted to put it on ModDb too, since it would give this mod more spotlight and extra audience as well. Suspicious still?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Meridian on March 04, 2023, 10:34:44 pm
But OXCE does have an installer, which already does all that.
You don't need to copy any folders anywhere, everything is automated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Meridian on March 04, 2023, 10:46:00 pm
Also, the biggest issue is that we support too many ways of installing and running things.
If there was only one way to do it, there would be no obsolete videos, no obsolete guides.
New guys who ask here for a guide will not get 6 different answers from 4 different people.

Adding yet another way of installing will not make it better or easier.
Guaranteed.

Lastly, you say you will update it every 2 months or so.
But for how long? 1 year, 2 years, maybe 3?
After that, there will be an unmaintained version on moddb, forever.
Solar will not be able to remove it.
And everybody who finds it, will be as lost as ever.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on March 04, 2023, 11:18:31 pm
Also, the biggest issue is that we support too many ways of installing and running things.
If there was only one way to do it, there would be no obsolete videos, no obsolete guides.
New guys who ask here for a guide will not get 6 different answers from 4 different people.

Adding yet another way of installing will not make it better or easier.
Guaranteed.

Lastly, you say you will update it every 2 months or so.
But for how long? 1 year, 2 years, maybe 3?
After that, there will be an unmaintained version on moddb, forever.
Solar will not be able to remove it.
And everybody who finds it, will be as lost as ever.

OXCE does all that; it doesn't install XCF on top, though. Also, I've been to ModDb since 2014 and been (re)uploading things there since then, because I'm here for the long game, apparently the same as you, hehe. Finally, if I would ever leave I can always delete the uploaded file there, anyway, or mark it as "removal via request" so you or Solar could remove it per email request, since it would contain OXCE and XCF both.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Meridian on March 04, 2023, 11:35:21 pm
I obviously can't (and won't) stop you. If you're decided, so be it.

But don't expect a thank you from me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on March 04, 2023, 11:44:23 pm
Now I have a better idea instead. I will make just a mod page there (without any files or downloads) and redirect everything to Mod.io (and, supplementary, here). The report comes later, once I'm done, yo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on March 05, 2023, 12:53:57 am
Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask how spawning in allied NPCs works?  I have played a few terror missions with aliens in built up city centers and while I like the missions, the main thought that goes through my head is..."where the hell are the cops?" . 

Yes, I know what you all are going to say which is stuff like, "There's a couple of them running around" (yes there's like one or two but I was expecting a SWAT response team at least), or "Cops got better things to do than get killed" but I have always wanted to see more of them around on these missions.  I am not asking that this be changed for the game since I think the terror missions are fine as is, this is just something I would like to add in myself for personal satisfaction. 

I get that each mission in the alien deployments rule file has both civilians: <enter number> and civiliansByType: <enter the string ID of the unit>:<number of units> which determine the number of civilians which are spawned.  Is it just as simple as changing the numbers and/or adding string IDs in the civiliansByType section, or do I have to specify where these new civilians spawn in on the map too?  If I do have to specify grid coordinates for spawning, how is this done? 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Stone Lake on March 05, 2023, 05:40:42 am
Quote from: Lone Wolf
Is it just as simple as changing the numbers and/or adding string IDs in the civiliansByType section
Iirc, unit spawn nodes are defined in the map itself. There are usually more than needed, and game picks some of them to spawn xcom/civvies/hostiles. So in most cases you can simply increase the number.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 05, 2023, 05:50:05 am
If you want SWAT, add/change something like this:
Code: [Select]
    civiliansByType:
      STR_MALE_SWAT: 10
Note that they'll be interspersed with all the other civilians, unlike an actual reinforcement/SWAT unit.

In theory, you could also reuse the SWAT van like this:
Code: [Select]
    customUfo: STR_SWAT_CAR
But I don't think there's support for several UFO types per deployment, and the Terror Ship is already there.

If you want specific coordinates, you could use spawning items placed on the map. Otherwise, extra civilians try to populate existing map nodes using various rules.

And, sadly, AFAIK actual reinforcements can't be civilians, so you can't have an influx of SWAT arriving at the scene without timed spawner items. I was wrong, see below.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Meridian on March 05, 2023, 11:09:12 am
And, sadly, AFAIK actual reinforcements can't be civilians, so you can't have an influx of SWAT arriving at the scene without timed spawner items.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5151.msg134656.html#msg134656
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on March 05, 2023, 01:39:11 pm
Regarding night missions: I can extend alien NV a bit, but I'm not sure it would play all that well with the general design. To me it just feels fake.

Now I have a better idea instead. I will make just a mod page there (without any files or downloads) and redirect everything to Mod.io (and, supplementary, here). The report comes later, once I'm done, yo.

I think this is the best solution. Having been around this community for many years, I 100% agree with Meridian's assessment.
Once upon the time XCF was distributed with OXCE, but eventually I abandoned this approach, as it was confusing in the long run.

Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask how spawning in allied NPCs works?  I have played a few terror missions with aliens in built up city centers and while I like the missions, the main thought that goes through my head is..."where the hell are the cops?" . 

Yes, I know what you all are going to say which is stuff like, "There's a couple of them running around" (yes there's like one or two but I was expecting a SWAT response team at least), or "Cops got better things to do than get killed" but I have always wanted to see more of them around on these missions.  I am not asking that this be changed for the game since I think the terror missions are fine as is, this is just something I would like to add in myself for personal satisfaction. 

I get that each mission in the alien deployments rule file has both civilians: <enter number> and civiliansByType: <enter the string ID of the unit>:<number of units> which determine the number of civilians which are spawned.  Is it just as simple as changing the numbers and/or adding string IDs in the civiliansByType section, or do I have to specify where these new civilians spawn in on the map too?  If I do have to specify grid coordinates for spawning, how is this done?

There are several ways to spawn civilians. But if the mission you mentioned uses this system, then yes, just changing the numbers is enough; you don't need to specify anything else.

Iirc, unit spawn nodes are defined in the map itself. There are usually more than needed, and game picks some of them to spawn xcom/civvies/hostiles. So in most cases you can simply increase the number.

Yeah, civilians spawn on dedicated spawn nodes (used for civilians and some aliens - "scouts"). But it's not necessary to understand this just to increase the number of civilians in a simple mission like the terror site.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 05, 2023, 01:52:57 pm
I knew wrong, then. :-[

In that case, making SWAT teams reinforce from a corner (or several) might be preferable, so they'll all spread out together.

...I'm not sure it would play all that well with the general design. To me it just feels fake.
Hmm, is it thematically fake or more 'artificial difficulty' fake? That is, is it the fluff or the crunch that bothers you?

Edit: I mean, my objection to it is that the aliens behave mostly as before, but now their hit chances at 21-40+ tiles are halved.

Of course, I also kinda dislike how much everybody in general tends to miss or just faff about even without smoke in the way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Stone Lake on March 05, 2023, 05:57:34 pm
Quote from: Solarius
I think it's the first time anyone complained that aliens are not hardcore enough.
The balance nowadays surprisingly feels overwhelmingly on X-com side post-invasion.
My 1999 was almost exclusively succumbing poor sectoids to police brutality. Yes, they punish mistakes hard and can one-shot you. But if you play good enough you're almost untouchable (which is good design, by the way), down to RNG of no-los penalty sniper shot. Then, by the time 2000 comes, you're literally unbeatable (due to amassed money) and can wipe floor with anyone (due to psi, hwps and maybe even turbolasers).
So more alien variety in 1999 and a bit more terror missions would definitely help. I feel there was more of the latter in older XCF? (There's now more base defense missions - great!)
The ideal mission of this kind is perhaps something like mib magma attack. Though rather pressured by 1000 penalty, mib captures you can get are extremely lucrative, so you should want to do it. Although mibs there could use some HWP support...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on March 05, 2023, 08:17:32 pm
Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask how spawning in allied NPCs works?  I have played a few terror missions with aliens in built up city centers and while I like the missions, the main thought that goes through my head is..."where the hell are the cops?" . 

Yes, I know what you all are going to say which is stuff like, "There's a couple of them running around" (yes there's like one or two but I was expecting a SWAT response team at least), or "Cops got better things to do than get killed" but I have always wanted to see more of them around on these missions.  I am not asking that this be changed for the game since I think the terror missions are fine as is, this is just something I would like to add in myself for personal satisfaction. 
They are being useful elsewhere.

Remember, the police are not a heavily armed military force. They have neither the training nor equipment to handle an active shooter situation beyond the level of a random madman with a gun.  Even the elite door kicker units that go out to arrest organized crime and such at best have light body armor and the occasional MP5. So something like an organized cult raid or god forbid an actual alien assault is going to be hilariously out of their league. So even in the most charitable scenario of something like a simple cult raid if the police were to send in forces to "help" XCOM they would at best get in the way and at worst be an open hindrance as XCOM would have to babysit them.

The police are far more useful in these scenarios using their numbers, authority and training to provide general support by cordoning off the effected area, assisting in evacuation of civilians, preventing panic etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 05, 2023, 09:15:14 pm
I'd say law enforcement in an alien terror scenario are indeed either being useful in actually keeping the peace and civilians off other units' backs... or they're dead. Remember, the ETs just decended out of the blue, and by the time reports reach X-Com, the first massacre has already happened and local authorities have sorted themselves out a little. Well, either that or it's full panic mode and the reports never make it.

Although depending on who's in charge and how fast X-Com gets there, I could see us interrupting a newly arrived SWAT/counterterrorist unit trying their luck with the aliens.


I think the old 'Kansai arc' fanfiction had some pretty good depictions of such missions. It also had the Commander be a womanizing asshole who threatened the UN with nukes. Well, Fusion Balls, but who's counting? :)


Remember, the police are not a heavily armed military force. They have neither the training nor equipment to handle an active shooter situation beyond the level of a random madman with a gun.  Even the elite door kicker units that go out to arrest organized crime and such at best have light body armor and the occasional MP5. So something like an organized cult raid or god forbid an actual alien assault is going to be hilariously out of their league.
Depends on the country. E.g. US and especially Russia are heavily militarised (less so now that they need everything at the front), even if their training isn't quite military, just 'cops with big guns and armoured vehicles'.

Many countries also have high-tier national counter-terror units, be they police or military. These fellows don't end at MP5-s. Heck, even bigger municipal SWAT units come with shields (on wheels), body armour, sniper rifles, assault rifles (I guess there were more SMGs back in the 90s), EOD gear and specialists, drones/robots, flashbangs, tear gas, what have you.

Of course, they are not the military at large, and in a straight shootout even the best CT unit is going to lose to a competent infantry force of similar size. Because infantry does not care about limiting damage to civilians and their environment, so no amount of room-clearing finesse or precision shooting is going to stand up to grenades thrown around like candy, mortars, machine guns and people expecting artillety to land on their heads and not staying put.

And they aren't likely to get all these officers and their gear in place before they realise it's not going to do them much good against plasma guns and super-alloy hulls, or someone manages to get some actual military on the scene, or X-Com arrives to save the day (or more likely the night :) ). Although the general confusion might see quite a few regular police officers turning up on the scene and into green goo before they figure out this is not a good idea.


Cultist are in a weird place where they have some military hardware but not the training. I'd expect a good SWAT unit to perform well enough against Dagonites, Exalt, even Black Lotus. The Red Dawn are where I'd draw the line of needing the actual military to contain them.

And, yeah, an alien assault is an OCP to even elite units. There is going to be a lot of confusion and panic as the enemy is something completely unexpected, never mind the plasma guns that vaporised the guy two meters to the left.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on March 06, 2023, 04:46:14 am
Quote
Iirc, unit spawn nodes are defined in the map itself. There are usually more than needed, and game picks some of them to spawn xcom/civvies/hostiles. So in most cases you can simply increase the number.

That is good news.  It should make things much easier.

Quote
If you want SWAT, add/change something like this:
Code: [Select]
    civiliansByType:
      STR_MALE_SWAT: 10

Yes, this is exactly what I am looking for!  Thanks!


Quote
And, sadly, AFAIK actual reinforcements can't be civilians, so you can't have an influx of SWAT arriving at the scene without timed spawner items. I was wrong, see below.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5151.msg134656.html#msg134656

Ok this is interesting.  I'm going to need to look at this more to understand the code, but I am very pleased to learn that we can spawn neutral/allied reinforcements.  It could make for some interesting missions...


Quote
"They are being useful elsewhere.

Remember, the police are not a heavily armed military force. They have neither the training nor equipment to handle an active shooter situation beyond the level of a random madman with a gun.  Even the elite door kicker units that go out to arrest organized crime and such at best have light body armor and the occasional MP5. So something like an organized cult raid or god forbid an actual alien assault is going to be hilariously out of their league. So even in the most charitable scenario of something like a simple cult raid if the police were to send in forces to "help" XCOM they would at best get in the way and at worst be an open hindrance as XCOM would have to babysit them.

The police are far more useful in these scenarios using their numbers, authority and training to provide general support by cordoning off the effected area, assisting in evacuation of civilians, preventing panic etc.

This is a good point.  Since I live in the U.S. I keep forgetting that most countries police forces are pretty lightly armed.  Although I will have to agree with Juku that plenty of countries have elite SWAT units and could still put up a decent fight. 

Quote
I think the old 'Kansai arc' fanfiction had some pretty good depictions of such missions. It also had the Commander be a womanizing asshole who threatened the UN with nukes. Well, Fusion Balls, but who's counting? :)

We have fanfics for X-files?  Where?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 06, 2023, 01:24:57 pm
We have fanfics for X-files?  Where?
I'm not aware of any XCF fanfics. What I was referring to was the original 90s fanfiction. Before Solarius even thought of making the X-Com Files, before OpenXcom, before fanfiction.net and AO3, before shipping and crossovers spread everywhere like a plague, before Hobbes wrote his epic... There were stories about Akira and Crossett, Lyudmila 'Elemental' Mannski (and her sidekick Otto Zander who came long before the Otto Zander), and the inimitable shadow protagonist Jack Rawlings.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Lone Wolf on March 07, 2023, 05:26:58 am
Ok Juku, you have successfully hyped this fanfic.  I'm gonna put that on my list of stuff to check out and I will start the hunt.  Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 07, 2023, 08:51:48 am
It's not a single piece of fanfiction. I referenced four series by three authors in my last post. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: PPQ on March 07, 2023, 07:07:46 pm
Yeah. This mod is full of small-percentage stuff like that. The Envoy Ships have an under 3% cumulative chance to spawn per month. But it's random, so you might get three in a row and then go three years without.
What do I need to change to make that more common?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 07, 2023, 07:48:59 pm
Change missionScripts_XCOMFILES.rul, 'executionOdds' for anything involving the Envoy Ships. That seems to be just stuff involving STR_ALIEN_DIPLOMACY right now. Repeat for any other mission you deem too rare.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Psyentific on March 08, 2023, 03:44:16 pm
We have fanfics for X-files?  Where?
https://lparchive.org/X-COM-UFO-Defense/
GuavaMoment's Let's Play UFO Defense is one of the finest examples of the type; it's how I discovered ufo defense. It makes good use of map editing and NPCs to showcase non-combat or story-related scenes and it integrates content from other games as well. The five-part Kiryu Kai Disaster is a pretty self-contained story arc, makes for good light reading and does a fine job of introducing the 'lids.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Raug on March 14, 2023, 06:55:59 pm
I'm going to go mad, I swear I've followed the readme to the letter, but I don't see X-Com Files in the dropdown menu no matter how I do it.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Meridian on March 14, 2023, 07:02:37 pm
I'm going to go mad, I swear I've followed the readme to the letter, but I don't see X-Com Files in the dropdown menu no matter how I do it.

Hello there,

1/ can you attach your openxcom.log file?

2/ and a screenshot of where you placed the mod files?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Raug on March 14, 2023, 07:10:54 pm
I actually realized that it was because I was using Ksenni's sound enhancement mod, and replaced the base modpack's files instead of just adding the mod to the mod list, sorry for my lack of intelligence.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 15, 2023, 06:33:45 pm
After reading Rezaf's Recap, I was struck by the idea of having somewhat more diverse crop circles/cattle mutilations, and perhaps even abductions? Namely, offering some mission sites where you get a very early warning and the UFO is still there, making circles, molesting cows, impregnating Earth women, or whatever it is that they do.

Would need a pretty tight timer, comparable to UFO landings, or perhaps double landings. 10-12 hours, tops. The three varieties of scout ships and maybe Abductors/Harvesters look like a natural fit for such missions.

As time goes by, the balance would shift from traumatised farmers towards MiBs and then bigger and bigger farmer-traumatising-UFOs, with everything still possible at any stage, but weighted towards different target mixes.

This would sorta solve both of rezaf's complaints about there being a lack of early UFOs, and crop circles sticking around way too long. And also incentivise building transport coverage for time-critical missions earlier.



Although I know Solarius dislikes revisiting early game stuff right now, and I'm no mapper. :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Akamashi on March 15, 2023, 10:49:43 pm
The horror that people sometimes come to mind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 16, 2023, 12:17:46 am
And also incentivise building transport coverage for time-critical missions earlier.
But aren't the only transports this would apply to locked behind rng, i.e. alien power systems (or KITSUNE as early-game one off)? Everything else runs into issues either with range or speed given the time constraints. The only "regular" craft that can cover the "max 12 hour on a global scale" are the SKYRAIDER and up. And do players really need an additional incentive to build more advanced transport craft?

I mean strictly speaking none of the early crafts (Dragonfly/Osprey/etc) are "build", and I see no reason - apart from funding shortages - why the player wouldn't upgrade to the SKY[X] at the earliest opportunity, since they basically outclass all of the earlier transports (except for undercover missions).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 16, 2023, 12:30:00 am
Transport coverage is not just the craft but also the base network. I recall someone, perhaps the original Helmet Hair?, maintaining a network of cars/vans in the air at all times. You don't need 'max 12 hours globally' if your nearest base is four hours away. And if there are several of these events per pre-invasion year, and you're not turtling in one or two bases, you should get something nearby unless the RNG hates you. Which it does, of course. :P

Skyraiders come along relatively fast, 'just' Promo II and Alien Power Systems. And these missions would help with the latter.

Kitsune and the others take quite a bit longer to access. And until they do, Ospreys still have their large transport vs fast transport tradeoff.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Talpiot on March 16, 2023, 01:04:52 am
the UFO is still there, making circles, molesting cows, impregnating Earth women, or whatever it is that they do.
There have also been claims of alien mutilations with human victims. I doubt a mission about that could be made to fit this mod though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 16, 2023, 01:17:59 am
Valid points if you want to advocate a very specific playstyle early game, but I don't think "keeping agents on flights 24/7" is everbodies cup of tea, nor very immersive or realistic (if that counts as an argument). Personally I don't like having to keep craft constantly in the air just on the off chance that it is the only way to reach an important mission, and I don't think adding more missions with tight windows that are only reachable under specific circumstances adds to the game experience. If anything this seves to frustrate new players and people like me who already have to work around parts of the existing mechanics which were introduced to make the game more "fun" to play.

I also don't think "These missions which are probably hard to reach for the average player not min/maxing the game serve as a way to unlock better craft which make actually reaching these mission sites in time less frustrating" is the best way to sell this idea.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 16, 2023, 06:46:50 am
Keeping a network of agents ready all over the globe is very much more 'realistic' rather than all of them being cooped up in SHADO HQ. (And personally, my immersion would improve if I saw more of aliens doing alien things in an interactive manner, rather than being told about it in non-interactive events or pedia articles.)

But you don't need to do that. Nothing really bad happens if you miss these UFOs. Good things might happen if you get lucky and one spawns within operating distance of your base network, and a better network/better transports/proactive patrols increase the chances it does. You're essentially arguing that someone turtling in one or two bases and not optimimising their research nor transport coverage should have access to just as many missions as a more proactive player. Which is already not the case, nor should it be.

Also, we have early UFOs which are pretty much the same deal except you don't get guaranteed detection on those. You're complaining about something that already exists in a 'worse' form. This proposal means you basically get more chances at getting better stuff without much of a downside. Well, unless someone puts punitive score penalties on these, or you count 'frustration' as one. :-\
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 16, 2023, 10:13:09 am
Please don't misconstrue what I am saying. I am not claiming that having multiple bases to cover different parts of the globe is unrealistic. What I am saying is that keeping your agents eternally on intercontinental flights is. And I am also not claiming that what you are proposing is unprecedented - I am saying adding another instance of missions that might be hard and frustrating to reach / easy to miss, especially for players that don't "min/max" or are unaware of hw they are suppised to approach the game isn't the best thing to add.

And again, "These missions which are probably hard to reach for the average player not min/maxing the game serve as a way to unlock better craft which make actually reaching these mission sites in time less frustrating" isn't really the way to pitch this ;)

I like the underlaying idea of encountering aliens actually trying to abduct civilians/livestock (not that there's much difference as far as they are concerned) and actually encountering both at an actual landing site (kind of what we get with Gertrude Ellson iirc), but I don't think making these missions hard to reach on purpose is the best way to implement them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 16, 2023, 11:55:01 am
Well, they aren't necessarily on intercontinental flights. They are parked in safe houses next to airports, or something like that. The engine doesn't provide that level of detail, so one has to come up with an interpretation.

And, again, it is not necessary to do that. A good base network will cover you, mostly. Upgraded transports (pre-Skyraider) will boost that coverage. Savescumming will cover you completely (and don't try to tell me that's not how players deal with 'frustration' :) ). Lucky spawns will. And not every mission needs to be done, especially considering that taking out a Medium Scout in 1998 isn't exactly something non-hardcore players do, either.

I mean, we also have the 'military shot down UFO' missions as well. If non-hardcore players need a boost, you could up those. But I am categorically opposed to the philosophy that optimising your gameplay should not be rewarded or even punished. And that's what you're essentially arguing here.


Plus, ultimately, it's an issue of, well, immersion. :D If the aliens were just dilly-dallying around their landing sites until the police/army/X-Com show up, how exactly do we still have a secret war pre-invasion?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 16, 2023, 02:08:18 pm
Well, they aren't necessarily on intercontinental flights. They are parked in safe houses next to airports, or something like that. The engine doesn't provide that level of detail, so one has to come up with an interpretation.


I have yet to come up with a fitting interpretation of how they find all of these convient safe houses in the middle of the pacific ocean.

And I don't think "savescumming will make this work for everybody" is a better argument than "tackling this mission might get less frustrating if you tackle this mission".

These are all arguments for how or why this could work, but not arguments why it should or have to work this way. I don't think new missions should be needlessly frustrating - given that as you stated we already have "real" UFO landings and crashed UFOs - and I still don't see how this would incentivise players to "build" better transports is an argument, let alone needed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Apocca on March 16, 2023, 03:30:32 pm
Starting playing X-Com Files and had 'military shot down UFO' mission. I was so exciting for that. Choose to go there during the day, bad decision :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 16, 2023, 04:05:52 pm
...how they find all of these convient safe houses in the middle of the pacific ocean.

And I don't think "savescumming will make this work for everybody" is a better argument than "tackling this mission might get less frustrating if you tackle this mission".

These are all arguments for how or why this could work, but not arguments why it should or have to work this way.
There's no plausible explanation for why you can 'patrol' or change course mid-flight using commercial airliners, either. Limitations of the engine and all that.

Savescumming is an argument because that's exactly what I've seen a number of streamers do when their ground mission starts going south. If the frustration is big enough, you can savescum. If it is not, it was not such a big problem then.

The arguments for why it should work like this are exactly those previous two that you choose to ignore:
I don't think new missions should be needlessly frustrating - given that as you stated we already have "real" UFO landings and crashed UFOs...
How are pre-crashed UFOs 'needlessly frustrating'? And the point of these missions is to a) increase that pool since complaining about a lack of UFOs seems to be a thing, and b) increase the proportion of the pool that is accessible without a radar network. That is, lessen the frustration of finding a UFO without blowing up the core premise of the mod.

And even if everything is as you say, why is more mission variety, even if the difficulty stays more or less the same, a bad thing?

...I still don't see how this would incentivise players to "build" better transports is an argument, let alone needed.
Why do we have a upgradeable transports and multiple bases if improving your transport game is not important? Should we go nuCom and do away with anything that isn't the Skyranger and all bases beyond the first altogether?

Also note that I did not say 'build transports', I said 'building transport coverage'.



I do have to ask what is it that you're arguing for here, exactly? New UFO missions should not be added? Should not be added to the pre-invasion stage? Timers should be more generous? Something else?

Because honestly "I don't see how your argument is an argument" is not particularly convincing, either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 16, 2023, 06:14:35 pm
There's no plausible explanation for why you can 'patrol' or change course mid-flight using commercial airliners, either. Limitations of the engine and all that.

Yes, but how is requiring this improving the situation?

Savescumming is an argument because that's exactly what I've seen a number of streamers do when their ground mission starts going south. If the frustration is big enough, you can savescum. If it is not, it was not such a big problem then.

How is savescumming an argument in favor of anything? It isn't. Mechanics and missions that are well implemented should not require or encourage savescumming.

The arguments for why it should work like this are exactly those previous two that you choose to ignore:

Rewarding players for planning and being good at the air (transport) game.

Your argument earlier was basically "doing these would make doing these missions less frustrating". I honestly don't see any meaningful reward here that's worth pushing the player into keeping their agents eternally airborne. I don't think this is a meta worth supporting.

UFO mythos and the XCF pre-invasion fluff are largely based on them being hard to pin down.

That's still not an excuse for implementing early game missions that use mid- to late game despawn timers comparable to those for alien terror missions.

How are pre-crashed UFOs 'needlessly frustrating'?

They are not, but they provide pretty much the same benefits you're advancing for this new type of missions. Hence "needlessly".

And even if everything is as you say, why is more mission variety, even if the difficulty stays more or less the same, a bad thing?
Because it doesn't. If these were introduced later or used longer despawn timers I wouldn't have all that much trouble seeing these as a worthwile addition. As it stands they are not.

Also note that I did not say 'build transports', I said 'building transport coverage'.
Point taken, but I don't see what difference that makes, given the meta this encourages or is supposed to incentivize. Existing missions already require or at least incentivize crafts with longer ranges or straight out building additional bases (cults/cult HQs being constrained to certain countries). I simply don't see the added benefit of pushing despawn times even further down in the early game.

I do have to ask what is it that you're arguing for here, exactly?
I thought that I had made that sufficiently clear by now. Not trying to frustrate new players and restricting missions to very specialzed play styles.

Please don't introduce missions with very short and strict despwn times early in the game. They are not needed and don't incentivize anything existing missions and mechanics don't already pull off in more rewarding ways.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 16, 2023, 07:45:35 pm
Yes, but how is requiring this improving the situation?
Why is me saying it is not required and there are other methods to soften the blow, twice, not getting through? The ideal player-side solution is to beeline for better transports and new bases. If the player can't be bothered or plays a challenge run, and dislikes both savescumming and excessive preparation, well, a minor score loss on par with regular crop circles should not cripple their game.

How is savescumming an argument in favor of anything? It isn't. Mechanics and missions that are well implemented should not require or encourage savescumming.
But the issue at hand is not whether there's a well designed mission, nor whether sacescumming is required. Nothing particularly bad will happen if you don't sacescum. Your other argument was that it 'frustrates' the player, ie a specific kind of player's emotional state, and reloading is a solution to that. One that millions of players utilise every day. If you have a different argument about the mechanical design, that should be made separately.

That is, don't think that the mod 'owes' you 'fair' missions. It doesn't. Getting to do and win a rare hard mission is a reward. Or maybe luck. :)

Your argument earlier was basically "doing these would make doing these missions less frustrating". I honestly don't see any meaningful reward here that's worth pushing the player into keeping their agents eternally airborne.
No, it was 'would make finding these missions less of an issue'. Actually winning the mission is a separate matter. One could also make the early instances easier, by equipping the aliens with stun weapons, anal probes and the like instead of plasma guns.

And I agree, forcing players to do a Helmet Hair would be useless. Fortunately, getting to these mission sites in no way requires that.

Plus, getting Alien Power Systems from such a UFO means early Skyraiders, which means you no longer need to be 'eternally airborne' if you chose to do that. Or get better coverage if you lucked into a nearby UFO, etc. I think that's quite a meaningful reward.

And if you mean 'reward' in a meta sense, it's catering to the mod's stated audience, 'experienced players', and rewarding good play. I see no isse with that unless you're one of these people who think all games need to get harder and harder and harder the longer they go on.

That's still not an excuse for implementing early game missions that use mid- to late game despawn timers comparable to those for alien terror missions.
That is exactly an excuse to do that. There might be reasons why doing so might be counterproductive otherwise, and indeed there are. Strategy games and their design is a matter of trade-offs, after all.

They are not, but they provide pretty much the same benefits you're advancing for this new type of missions. Hence "needlessly".
Well, yes, the mod will not suffer greatly if there are no more UFO different missions. But that argument can be leveled against most any single mission type, and is thus not particularly strong in itself.

And if the mod has an overabundance of 'shot down' UFOs, that raises thematic issues. Why does the world need X-Com when local militaries can already do the job. My proposal is largely about providing a more varied source of UFOs to play with, so one type will not dominate too much.

And the 'shot down' missions have allies, so they're the really easy version. My proposal is a middle ground between those and 'free' UFOs.

Because it doesn't. If these were introduced later or used longer despawn timers I wouldn't have all that much trouble seeing these as a worthwile addition.
My proposition already covers the 'later' part. It was that these missions would be added to every phase of the game, with UFO sizes and prevalence increasing as time goes on. They'd be rare in the beginning, where most crop circles etc still have farmers, then you transition to mostly MiB coverups, and then mostly UFOs. Maybe one year per each phase.

You might consider the rare early UFOs interactable 'bad events'. :D

I simply don't see the added benefit of pushing despawn times even further down in the early game.
It isn't 'pushing despawn times ... down'. It's a singular mission type.

Not trying to frustrate new players and restricting missions to very specialzed play styles.
Given that the 'specialised play style' is a strawman, and new players will not be meaningfully more frustrated by a few early UFOs than they'd be by manors, regular early UFOs, Chupacabra hordes or any other curveball the mod throws their way, I fail to see why you're so insistent about this one single addition.

Please don't introduce missions with very short and strict despwn times early in the game.
Actually, I am not even sure where you get that these are insurmountably short timers. A Dragongly covers half the globe in 10 hours. An Opsrey covers like 80%+ in 11. So two bases with Dragonflies will get to almost any 12-hour-time-limit mission, barring more important missions coming up at the same time. And that's what a player is supposed to be doing in a strategy game, making meaningful choices using limited resources.

Early on, a private car will do much the same as an Osprey, and two agents against a Small Scout seems reasonably fair. Very early on, before Promo I, you're kinda hosed, but that's what progress is all about.

They are not needed...
Nothing is ever strictly needed in a game. I think such missions would provide an interesting and thematic opportunity.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 16, 2023, 09:01:58 pm
Why do you feel the need to escalate the discussion this way when my argument can be neatly summarized in two sentences i.e.

"I don't see any benefit in adding mid-to-late-game despawn timers to early game missions"

and

"I don't see the benefit or need to further incentivize transport capacity"

I don't have a problem with the mission itself, nor am I against "more UFO missions". I never said anything to that account.

I simply don't see how your claims of why this specific implementation would be a good idea actually add up. I think the point were you tried to paint savescumming as an argument "in favor" of this was where this started to kind of brake down for me. And trying to argue that players need additional incentives to use the Osprey or the Dragonfly is kind of bizzare to be honest. Are we plaing the same game here?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on March 16, 2023, 11:46:05 pm
"I don't see any benefit in adding mid-to-late-game despawn timers to early game missions"
And I already addressed the benefits. You personally not thinking they are not (good) enough with no real argument other than 'I see no need' is not particularly convincing, either.

Plus, a mid-late-game 'despawn' timer is half a dozen UFOs landing for perhaps 4-6 hours each, twice at best. 12 hours for a single mission is Promo II tier. And the proposal covers far more than the early and very early game.

"I don't see the benefit or need to further incentivize transport capacity"
Which is the same reason as the first one, really.

I simply don't see how your claims of why this specific implementation would be a good idea actually add up.
So, why is the idea of rewarding a player for doing well or getting lucky not adding up?

And you seem to be conflating 'incentivise' and 'require' in your arguments, which seems to be the root cause of our disagreement.

I think the point were you tried to paint savescumming as an argument "in favor" of this was where this started to kind of brake down for me.
Savescumming is not an argument for the mission, it's an argument against a specific counterpoint of yours. New players are already getting frustrated by a zombie randomly killing their first two agents, and resolving said frustration by reloading. I am getting frustrated seeing them do this again and again. :P

It is neither possible nor desirable to remove new player frustration from a mod explicitly aimed at veterans, and in the bigger picture the additional frustration from a rare mission would be minuscule.

And trying to argue that players need additional incentives to use the Osprey or the Dragonfly is kind of bizzare to be honest.
Actually, kinda yes. Some people beeline for the Osprey and skip the Dragonfly. This would make the latter a bit more relevant.



To sum it up, I don't see a lore-friendly way to reduce the timers, nor a reason to do so past the first six months, well, maybe a year. If you have one, I have nothing against it. Maybe add a Roswell version where the UFO crashes on its own? But that is actually a fourth type of UFO mission.

I am not going to agree that every mission must be accessible to every player, and that the mod should never encourage tightly optimised play. Since that seems to be the core of your argument, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree and leave Solarius to pick up the pieces if he wants to.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: krautbernd on March 17, 2023, 01:02:26 am
And I already addressed the benefits. You personally not thinking they are not (good) enough with no real argument other than 'I see no need' is not a particularly convincing stance, either.

I already laid down why I don't think that - as proposed - this is needed or beneficial, and that claiming that this would "incentivize" anything is in my oppinion not a valid argument, given what's already in the game. I am not here to convince you of anything, really. I am aware that that rarely works when people are invested into an idea.

I don't get the part about the despawn timer and UFOs landing or taking off. We are specifically not talking about UFOs here. If this would spawn as an actual UFO this would be a different matter. I am referring solely to mission sites. I also don't understand why you think that "this covers more than early game" changes anything. Your claims regarding "incentives" makes even less sense the further the player gets into the game. Conversely I would have less objections to these were popping up later in the game or with different timers.

And when I say "incentivize" or "incentives" I do in fact mean those words and not something else.

New players "already getting frustrated and savescumming in other missions" still isn't an argument in favor of implementing another mission that is prone to causing frustration because of overly short mission timers in the early game.

And funny how I seem to be doing the exact opposite by not using the Osprey all that much unless I am actually forced to because I prefer faster crafts. All without needing any incentive. Again, I think the "this needed to incentivize (x)" is really more of a pretext. As far as I can tell both craft have their uses and "some people do (y) and don't play the game correctly" is a pretty weak argument in my oppinion.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on March 17, 2023, 04:41:16 am
All I am seeing is someone arguing they're not liking how the game/mod plays and has unrealistic expectations of an engine from the 90s.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: sanchoss on March 21, 2023, 08:46:01 pm
Very cool Mod. Cool storylines, more difficult levels, especially laser cannon on ships. Keep going.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Apocca on March 27, 2023, 05:51:11 pm
I love the storylines too. Especially all the little easter eggs to different x-com games  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Torchwood on March 29, 2023, 07:50:43 pm
Currently one game year in, made it to Promotion II. Can't comment much about lategame, have not gotten to it yet. Compared to the other mods I've played, Files is a lot more chill, not much happens in the earlygame so you can just set the geoscapee to 1 hour or even 24 hours and wait.

I have no idea how to best deal with early UFOs largely because I've never seen one. As for manors, those are your typical Solarius mission, bring the best of the best. I've done three so far with 6-8 agents and prom II gear. There were some napalm and gas grenades in looted crates, put them to use in manors. Use your UFO activity charts - if there's constant activity in a region, odds are there's a manor somewhere, use something undetectable to locate it.

One of the big early game tricks: Learn to use your grenades. Initially you only get smokes, those are great for concealment. When you are outnumbered (i.e. all the time) having fewer gunmen shooting at you is good. Flashbangs make approaching for a stun with taser or club much safer. Once you loot some damage grenades (i.e. grenade, incendiary grenade, dynamite), you can use those for crowd control. Though give the latter only to strong agents, the weight makes throwing it hard.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on March 30, 2023, 03:41:17 pm
Alright. I'm done with the other tasks, so I can focus on making the mod page for this. I see the GitHub is active as much as it can, so when there's gonna be the next version available? Any ETA, so I could make screenshots and the micro teaser on the newest material?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on March 31, 2023, 04:49:17 am
2.8 JUST came out less than a month ago. So you probably have awhile until next big update.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 04, 2023, 12:38:09 pm
I'd say I'm about 80% done.
If there's a critical bug or something, I can release 2.9 any time. If not, then I'd like to add some more things.

Friendly reminder: you can always take the GitHub nightly version and just use it. 99% chance it will work fine, except that translations will probably be incomplete.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: DoxaLogos (JG) on April 04, 2023, 05:08:23 pm


Friendly reminder: you can always take the GitHub nightly version and just use it. 99% chance it will work fine, except that translations will probably be incomplete.

I've been pulling the latest from github fairly regularly as you've made fixes.  It's been working fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Apocca on April 05, 2023, 12:07:48 pm
What are the changes for a Dreamscape mission? I have Dreaming but after 1 year in-game I have yet to get such a mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 06, 2023, 11:29:17 am
What are the changes for a Dreamscape mission? I have Dreaming but after 1 year in-game I have yet to get such a mission.

The chances aren't high. Also, there are only two such missions as of now.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Apocca on April 06, 2023, 05:42:34 pm
The chances aren't high. Also, there are only two such missions as of now.

Ah, ok.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on April 11, 2023, 12:36:44 pm
If 100 XCF players want it to stack, but the XCF modder doesn't want it to stack... I will listen to the modder.
@Solarius: Does 'the XCF modder' :D want them to stack or not stack?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: DarthTheIII on April 13, 2023, 01:50:16 am
I just finished about a 2 year xcom files break, working on a new playthrough now.  I love the intercepted transmissions you get whenver you move up a tier with one of the 4 cults.  It really makes the "world" feel more active
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 13, 2023, 01:24:03 pm
@Solarius: Does 'the XCF modder' :D want them to stack or not stack?

Replied in the relevant thread. ;)
(spoiler: my reply was "yes")

I just finished about a 2 year xcom files break, working on a new playthrough now.  I love the intercepted transmissions you get whenver you move up a tier with one of the 4 cults.  It really makes the "world" feel more active

Cool! But all credit with these messages goes to Helrica. Thanks, Helrica! :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Czudak on April 18, 2023, 03:00:55 pm
I won't be able to work on the mod page/teaser of this lovely modification for a quite long while, since a serious thing just turned up at my place. Just a heads up; will get back to it the moment I would be able. Cheers, and keep this shit rollin'! Czudak, "ołwer and ałt".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 20, 2023, 10:02:46 pm
A short message to players who use the GitHub version: today I overhauled how ladders work (well, most of them), using a new OXCE function. This function requires an OXCE version which is still unreleased, so you will need to get it from https://lxnt.wtf/oxem/#/Extended (or just ignore it and accept that most ladders can't be climbed).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: OwenQ on April 25, 2023, 01:48:23 am
So I was going nuts reading that OXCE had a craft range indicator that I never could see for some reason. Searching just turned up the fact that it was there and not how to activate it or anything - just that it was 'always enabled'.

Well, for anyone else having the same problem, it's tied to the Options -> Geoscape -> Globe Details -> Radars button. This makes a lot of sense, but for whatever reason I had failed to turn that on in my fresh install of X-COM Files and it had gone unnoticed because I have yet to make it to radars anyway.

a little SEO stuffing for anyone else in my shoes: max range indicator, craft range indicator, interceptor range indicator
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: NuclearStudent on April 26, 2023, 09:47:46 pm
Allo allo, been a few years, lovely to see that this project is still going. Ambitious and glorious as always.

Side note, I think the installation tutorial is now obsolete: new XFiles doesn't seem to come with Extended packaged, and the readme similarly has changed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: NuclearStudent on April 26, 2023, 10:59:46 pm
Also, quick question from someone who's been out for a while - does reduced vision from night affect human opponents?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Dreams_Of_Cheese on April 26, 2023, 11:11:35 pm
Also, quick question from someone who's been out for a while - does reduced vision from night affect human opponents?
It does, but as I understand, the AI is given free vision of your soldier as soon as you hit one of them with your guns. You can avoid that with grenades, but in general the night time advantage lasts only as far as you can choose where you start the gunfight. This combines with sniper/spotter mechanics to give vision to a Lot of enemies with certain factions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: NuclearStudent on April 27, 2023, 12:09:57 am
It does, but as I understand, the AI is given free vision of your soldier as soon as you hit one of them with your guns. You can avoid that with grenades, but in general the night time advantage lasts only as far as you can choose where you start the gunfight. This combines with sniper/spotter mechanics to give vision to a Lot of enemies with certain factions.

Ty!

night missions still a bit grim then
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on April 27, 2023, 07:59:23 am
You might not be as screwed if you hit a non-spotter, since then the others can't just shoot at you without vision. Works against some cultists, but not aliens or tougher enemies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 27, 2023, 03:39:21 pm
Allo allo, been a few years, lovely to see that this project is still going. Ambitious and glorious as always.

Thank you for your kind words and welcome back!

Side note, I think the installation tutorial is now obsolete: new XFiles doesn't seem to come with Extended packaged, and the readme similarly has changed.

OK, I removed the link to Ivan's tutorial. Thanks.

You might not be as screwed if you hit a non-spotter, since then the others can't just shoot at you without vision. Works against some cultists, but not aliens or tougher enemies.

Yeah... But without this feature, the AI is helpless in the dark against a mean player with mean flares. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on April 27, 2023, 06:00:31 pm
But without this feature, the AI is helpless in the dark against a mean player with mean flares.
Not BAI. :P

You could also take away the flare abuse and give the aliens back their full night vision. I never tire of shilling my grenade range limits. :D I tried doing the Underwater City again yesterday to see whether the complaints in the other thread had merit, and stupidly copied the illumination advice from there to my own game. No, flare scouting doesn't work when you can throw them a dozen tiles or so. Gotta funnel the aliens towards the lit-up zones instead.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 27, 2023, 06:18:05 pm
Not BAI. :P

Um... Bai-bai?
I don't know what you're saying.

You could also take away the flare abuse and give the aliens back their full night vision. I never tire of shilling my grenade range limits. :D I tried doing the Underwater City again yesterday to see whether the complaints in the other thread had merit, and stupidly copied the illumination advice from there to my own game. No, flare scouting doesn't work when you can throw them a dozen tiles or so. Gotta funnel the aliens towards the lit-up zones instead.

There are other similar ways to enjoy oneself, but I can't write about them on a public forum... :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Juku121 on April 27, 2023, 06:46:35 pm
Um... Bai-bai?
Brutal AI.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Gena Krokodilov on April 29, 2023, 02:34:17 pm
Which version of X-com files are latest at the moment and available to download?

Yesterday i have seen a message:

Quote
Solarius_Scorch
23 04 2023
Please update your OXCE version.
(XCF 2.9 will require OXCE 7.9, which should be publicly released soon.)

OXCE 7.9 released today and available to download.
I try to find newest X-Com Files - but it still 2.8.



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
Post by: Nerro on April 29, 2023, 02:48:56 pm
The last release is 2.8
You can get the files for 2.9 from Github, but this is still a beta version as far as I know.
https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 30, 2023, 01:02:10 pm
Version 2.9 is now officially released.

2.9:
- New UFO: Saboteur (map by Wolverin, sprite enhanced by Brain_322).
- New missions: Zombie Isolation, Abyssal Artifact Delivery.
- New Alien Retaliation variants.
- New event: A Perplexing Graffiti.
- New facility: Huge Storage Facility (map and sprite by Brain_322).
- New Dossier: Mackenzie Calhoun (by Mknzy Calhoun).
- New items: Syndicate Weapon Box (sprite by Brain_322), Abyssal Urn.
- New lore articles.
- 6 new Port maps.
- New Ufopaedia section: Mechanical Units.
- Moved unarmed attacks to the Outfits section.
- Moved alien weapons to the Weapons and Equipment section.
- Toned down the selling bonus on low difficulties.
- Bases should be built right where the source UFO landed.
- Added more enemies to Cydonia.
- Added a pickaxe to The Sound of Graves map.
- Decreased Sanity drain in the Vampire Castle.
- Better Avatar Morph Ufopaedia picture.
- Improved Machete and Canister Gun bigobs (by Juku).
- Added missing avatar names.
- Changed the hyperwave decoder text to fit all the relevant situations.
- UFO Navigation can be recovered from captured bases.
- More rewards from Syndicate Warehouse and Lab.
- Human Sacrifices are now held in prison for clarity.
- Blaster Multi-Bomb Pack nerfed.
- Thanatonautian Manus costs 2 Sanity per use.
- Drone Rocket Launcher shoots slightly faster.
- Outrunner can be repaired.
- Blood Boosting is much faster.
- Anti-E115 Weapons now also require Bio Lab.
- Sectoid Commander's psi vision increased.
- Some paperdoll improvements (by Talpiot).
- Better Stormtrooper corpse sprites (by Talpiot).
- Proper Giant Spider Autopsy and Mongorn Autopsy pics (by Flaubert).
- Port with Pier terrain available for more missions.
- EXALT Liquidation and Syndicate Assassination missions have random maps (equipment pile moved by necessity).
- Simplified some mapscripts.
- Overhauled corpse/autopsy unlocking system.
- Unified Assault Suit bottom armor values.
- Astral Form gives +10 Strength.
- Fixed Chemthrower (no longer completely bypasses armor).
- Optronic Parts are components, not evidence.
- Removed the "Mysterious Parcel from Syndicate" event (for now).
- Fixed some commendations.
- Fixed missing Wrecked Syndicate Walker Examination article.
- Fixed Port terrain script.
- Fixed the Osiron Hacienda pool.
- Fixes Black Lotus/Syndicate HQ corners.
- Fixed Tritanium Cannon, Avionics and Zrbite Drive dependencies.
- Fixed incorrect point values for some events.
- Fixed Flying Drone and Outrunner variants incorrectly disallowed in some missions.
- Fixed Flying Suit manufacturing time.
- Fixed the MiB Lunar Base Landing mission deployment (thanks to Juku).
- Fixed Reclamation of Aether unlocking.
- Fixed X-Com Position Marker causing morale loss and giving Betrayer.
- Fixed hair colors.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: NuclearStudent on May 02, 2023, 10:23:04 am
Pardon me if this has been answered before, but why can't I handcuff zombies? I feel like that should be an exception to the general rule of monsters being too strong/weird to handcuff.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Juku121 on May 02, 2023, 02:13:21 pm
Don't you get to handcuff them with space alloy shackles? Zombies have crazy strength and will bust your measly Earth cuffs. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Chuckebaby on May 02, 2023, 05:54:38 pm
Great news !!!!

This latest update (along with the OXCE update) fixed all my issues. I'm able to resume my game (MIB Lunar landing mission).
I appreciate the update and I also appreciate the help from Juku and krautbernd, others. Thank you.

krautbernd, I know you and I kind of butted heads a bit before, my apologies.
We are all kind of like a big family here. Sometimes brothers argue  :D

Great work Solarius and crew. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Snooper17 on May 05, 2023, 03:07:02 am
Okay, so just recently, I started up a new game & have reached the point of recruiting the Envoys (specifically the Military one) and I required the research of all of the 'Cult Networks', I've done all of them except the Black Lotus, where I'm in need of a Footman, however, every Cult safehouse has been reserved for Exalt & Red Dawn, and any Black Lotus missions are now only coming up with the basic 'Arrest Suspects' that don't have them, Have I somewhat 'Softlocked' myself here?, or is there a way around it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 05, 2023, 09:53:53 am
Okay, so just recently, I started up a new game & have reached the point of recruiting the Envoys (specifically the Military one) and I required the research of all of the 'Cult Networks', I've done all of them except the Black Lotus, where I'm in need of a Footman, however, every Cult safehouse has been reserved for Exalt & Red Dawn, and any Black Lotus missions are now only coming up with the basic 'Arrest Suspects' that don't have them, Have I somewhat 'Softlocked' myself here?, or is there a way around it?

You have to have researched "Black Lotus" but not "Black Lotus Operations" in the previous month. The rest is just randomness: there are (in the early game) 8 triggers with each having  8 % chance of one of those missions spawning each month. This means that you have roughly 50 % chance that you don't get a specific cult mission at all per month.

Later, for cult outposts, the chance is 6 % which means about 40 % of chance not spawning at least one per month.

There are also other missions that may give you what you need (e.g. Industrial investigation).

Sometimes getting all may take a while. That's also why you may want to consider when is the best time to research all the networks and/or operations (for example, that you don't get too difficult missions too early and you don't terminate too early the easy experience and money-churning easy missions).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 05, 2023, 08:11:19 pm
Advanced Intelligence Center description includes: "An improvement of the standard Intelligence Center, this facility provides workspace for 2 more scientists and allows the base to conduct intelligence-related research (primarily interrogations) using advanced methods and improved equipment. Each Intelligence Center slightly increases global detection."

This is misleading or it's trying to mix the lore in the description and causes confusion. No interrogation seems to require of benefit of these "advanced methods and improved equipment", which the text seems to indicate. You have to pay 1.25M for two additional scientists and far more for upkeep. Its biggest selling point would be global 2% detection instead of 1 %, but I haven't played enough to know whether that's worth it (and you can already get it by having multiple regular intel labs across multiple places). Otherwise this would be a waste of money. I'd suggest removing the text which seems to suggest you would actually need this for some interrogations - or make certain interrogations actually require the advanced intel functionality.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 05, 2023, 08:54:01 pm
This is misleading or it's trying to mix the lore in the description and causes confusion. No interrogation seems to require of benefit of these "advanced methods and improved equipment", which the text seems to indicate.

Except is doesn't. Since when "research" means "interrogating people"???
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Juku121 on May 05, 2023, 10:59:30 pm
If the text says "primarily interrogations", that's pretty heavily implied. Fluff text is not a technical manual, so having to say "but read it again, it actually doesn't say this" implies neither good design nor good writing.

Also, as far as I can tell, the Advanced Intel Center is not a requirement for any research (beyond what a normal Intel Center already provides), nor is completing the related research (and not even building one) a gateway to anything else. So the description is not even correct in the "research is not interrogation" interpretation, at least as of 2.9. Maybe it'll change, IDK.

Well, unless "advanced methods and improved equipment" is just intelligence lady speak for siphoning money from X-Com coffers. :)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: NuclearStudent on May 07, 2023, 10:38:52 am
Don't you get to handcuff them with space alloy shackles? Zombies have crazy strength and will bust your measly Earth cuffs. :D

fair, I didn't realize they were like 80 strength, that's a fair cop

I agree with psavola and juku here on the intel center description.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: NuclearStudent on May 10, 2023, 03:45:32 am
btw, is there a quick way to check whether a base facility can be destroyed in a Base Defense?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 10, 2023, 05:52:07 am
btw, is there a quick way to check whether a base facility can be destroyed in a Base Defense?

This is how it goes (or is at least documented) with vanilla OXC: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Base_Defence#Destruction_Of_Base_Facilities - some facilities are special.
The rulesets don't seem to include anything that relates to the destruction of facilities. Therefore I think how the tiles are marked in each base facility must be examined from the maps files. So I guess the answer to the "quick way" would be no.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 10, 2023, 02:29:11 pm
I confirm; this information is coded in MCD files (terrain properties). There is no other way to check, you need to examine the files with MCDEdit (or some other program, if it exists).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: kevL on May 11, 2023, 12:26:01 am
I confirm; this information is coded in MCD files (terrain properties). There is no other way to check, you need to examine the files with MCDEdit (or some other program, if it exists).

McdView in Mapview2 package -- it's a standalone app or it can be opened from TileView (for quick inspection of MCD data, and it should work for quick edits also). backup yer data, I haven't tested it much ...

re. destruction of XCOM base facilities: unless an aLien is engaged in combat it paths to the closest routenode that has a nonzero BaseAttack value. From there it looks for content-tileparts that have the isBaseObject (#60 Xcom_Base) flag set true. If the aLien is equipped with a proper weapon (i saw non-HE in the OxC code) it attempts to shoot the object; if enough objects in a mapblock get destroyed, that XCOM Facility gets destroyed at the end of the base defense mission. And if such destruction isolates any other Facilities from the AccessLift and/or Hanger(s) they get destroyed also.


presumably if a Facility has no base-objects it can't be destroyed (haven't checked that though)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: NuclearStudent on May 11, 2023, 09:09:38 am
Ty!

It seems safe to build corridors from access tunnels...probably. I will be very sad if I lose a base but that's xcom, baby.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: OwenQ on May 15, 2023, 08:32:44 pm
I just want to double check that I'm understanding the early-game transport craft progression and haven't missed one somewhere in the labyrinthine tech tree. (As far as I can tell, there is no CRAFT category on the wiki?) I've listed what I deem the last/hardest dependency to get for each and what I understand their strengths/weaknesses to be.

LOGISTICS gets you the Public Van, doubling capacity but costing you a lot of speed. The Van also seems to be the largest transport available for several mission types.

In Promo 1, BASIC FLIGHT TRAINING unlocks the Helichopter, which is another 50% capacity, good speed, at the cost of only covering half-ish of the globe. It also seems to be able to access a handful of mission types the Dragonfly can't.

MILITARY ENVOY gets you access to the Humvee, which is like a faster van that can technically do interceptions and has room for one more soldier. It can also go to any special mission the Heli can except the Ski Resort evidently?

In Promo 2, CONTACT: UAC gets you the Dragonfly, with 8 soldier capacity and half-globe range. Also has lights that are great for getting shot on night missions. It seems to be the largest transport available for a handful of the 'infiltrator' type missions, though it misses out on stuff like the Beaches and Ski Resort.

All four [CULT] OPERATIONS gets you access to the Osprey, with its whopping 16 soldier capacity, but has a bit less than half a globe's coverage and can't go on any special mission (assuming from the wiki entry). Also obviously can be an RNG pain to get, and requires you to progress beyond the cult-safehouse-farming part of the campaign.

The Mudranger and airborne Mudranger seem to be very expensive ways to drop double-digit numbers of soldiers by creating a forward base near a known target (or perhaps brutally overwhelming that occasional cultist apprehension that happens to spawn near your main base)

It seems like after that it's managing to get alien tech to make the Skyraider for full global coverage of double-digit soldiers and then into normal-ish game progression?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Juku121 on May 15, 2023, 11:22:48 pm
As far as I can tell, there is no CRAFT category on the wiki?
Apparently not. ???

You can do a Quick Battle and check X-COM VEHICLES instead.

I've listed what I deem...
Seems accurate enough.

You can also get a speedy car for covert missions after Promo I, which might see some use in cases requiring a rapid response. And a faster 5-person van after Promo III, which is usually way beyond when it'd be of much use unless you like farming the covert missions.

It seems like after that it's managing to get alien tech to make the Skyraider for full global coverage of double-digit soldiers and then into normal-ish game progression?
Well, there's a special one-off craft called the Kitsune that will almost trivialise early mid-game as far as transport capability goes. And an alloy Skyranger comes online soon enough that you might not want the regular Skyrangers all that much. Skyraiders, yes, these come earlier and are kinda fast so have their own niche.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Raptor29a on May 16, 2023, 01:19:28 am
Xcom Files Notes:
Sorry for the long post it's a document I started when first playing this game in version 2.2 January 2022. I spent 4hr per weekend, excellent mod/game. I had played oringal xcom and thought why not give the most popular mod a try. (So below is my 1.5 year in the making opinion)
-The game flowed really smoothly for the first few in-game months. Things made sense. Then I felt lost in research, (like where is any of this going? how is any of this connected?) Cults, Dossiers, monsters... well I guess I'll find out.
-Then, I accidentally found the middle click button... I should've read button config. Thusly, things started falling into a rhythm, which was cool. I do like how early on there is no penalty for aborting a mission. Like showing up in a car with 2 agents armed with glocks and being surrounded by 30ish snakes. I killed one, picked it up, and was like "nope not today" and left without penalty.
-Getting a van was very exciting I called the van the A-Team van and another the Scooby-Doo Van and a third the Ice Cream Van. The Cultists can't aim, but neither can Xcom (good ol' stormtrooper shoot out, highly enjoyable). The myth and lore throughout has been very interesting, and the disguise missions were well done also. Nothing feels out of place, except the Humvee; it came in way too late, because the Dragonfly was unlocked shortly after (it is the same research tree/tier). So I never bought a Humvee, but if the Humvee unlocked sightly sooner (like before Promotion 2), I would've bought one.
-Wow, Promotion 2 was big.-
There was a mission where the enemy had an Armored Car in the first month with combatants throwing grenades. Its like once you get black Ops weapons, the enemy brings thier out their commandos (they know how to aim). Although I do wish the mansion seige (more like armored car seige) was tied to explosives licensing and not Promotion 2. Eitherway I still squeeked by on that mission. (Shooting the enemy once they got inside and using thier grenades helped.) Yea I thought bio-exosuits were awesome... till grenades and full auto weaponry came on the scene.
- lol, just realized if I held down ctrl the agents sprint (should've read the tip/help pages)
-After 4 months into Promotion 2, I started wondering about the dossiers from the cults and did they play a roll in anything or are they just a token part of research. (Until Natasha's, lol)
-At the beginning I thought the monsters were just fun fiction added to spice things up, but wow excellent job in keeping their backstory secret. (I like the plot twist, no spoilers)
-On a sidenote, its too bad feral Lobersterman Corpses can't be used for Carapus plates.
-Another thumbs up on the MAGMA missions. I won't give spoilers, but I will say, very entertaining, very fun. (Monster tank shootout, lol yes)
I was impressed the game has an extra smooth transition into promotion 3
-Promotion 3-
-The invasion was fun, the large number of scouts, it gave me a panic/challenge. Although the mutons showed up... sectiods taking a break, but leathal bullet sponges are fully ready to bring your bravado down from your chin to your ankles, but *spoiler* the threat is nothing that flame throwers, napalm, and mortors can't solve... also flame glove= life saver. But just as I repelled the invasion, the second month hits me with two colonies. As a sad joke, I unlocked the CF arrow, right after finishing researching the Raven.
-Month three after invation, the Aliens just sent scout after scout, and I unlocked the Improved reseach center and built one. Month four was an abduction storm and the eventual loss of another nation to infiltration. (Lost china and russia, wow)
-Looking back I think I chose the wrong difficultly, instead they should read: first time?, experienced, challanging, hard, and good luck.
-I never built a hawkeye, because I felt they were a waste of alien alloy since they have completely identical stats to the AWACS (except for carrying soldiers...why? especially when you have a skyrider available?).
-A shout out to the Kitsume, best addition for surviving the battlescape (especially hiding from plasma snipers). It's design has saved my butt multiple times.
-I felt game quickly jumped from using Tri-titanium ammo on missions to using rockets/motors and mass drivers. I didn't get as much time with Tri-titanium ammo because I unlocked mass driver weapons shortly after. I was also disappointed I couldn't reverse engineer a syndicate walker (oh well, there's always Sectopods)
-A Big Big Suggestion, I made the mistake of eliminating the black lotus early on. There should really have been more distiction between The Ninja Assassin and the basic Black Loctus Warrior. They look completely identical, I thought they were the same thing, and I didn't realize my mistake before terminating the black lotus. (Well there goes ninja training and helix warrior)
-I got excited after doing all the research to get the Medi-Kit, yet I was hoping there would be an Advanced Sick Bay. An Advanced Sick Bay could give me a purpose/reason to research examination room (since it has a depency of nothing. And would fit well on top of the Medi-Kit tech tree.) An Advanced Sick Bay would help with high health agents and thier plasma burns.
-Holo-grenades require optronics and not optronic parts which I am still confused about. So I've been surviving without them.
-Also, Fun fact, I learned how to gain the system/buy time. The mutons had already influtrated four nations (including USA), so I decided to research anything and everything that said *effects game progression.* And suddenly the UFO attacks slowed/paused. And oh crap, three months later the Aliens went from Mutons to Ethereals. Xcom files never ceases to surprize me.
-Something strange I'd like to note, by the time I get an advanced lab, gain access to plasma weapons, and gain access to the cyberdisc plasma... I unlocked the plasma tank and hover plasma tank. I rarely made use of the Cyberdisc plasma, except for the fact it does 5 more damage than the hover tank plasma. Cyberdisc laser is the best use for a cyberdisc, because it can be achieved much earlier in-game (and does same damage as a laser tank, but flies). I did use the cyberdisc plasma to kill turrets due to its high damage.
-Looking back, I appreciate the subtly of the game going from mutated rats and bats, to awesome killer dogs, then to AI robots. Eventually I had to let go of the rat and bat agents because they are wayyy too fragile. Sadly, I worked hard to max the stats of 2 bats and 2 rats (can't they at least get neoderm transformation?). As for dogs... still debating keeping them. Their use is almost end game worthy. I would often use dog and tank combo (hide dog behind the tank to get close enough for dog to then ambush and crew up my opponent's front line).
-I found an awesome combo, Juggernaut Armor plus carapus plate means and agent can take a rocket hit to frontal armor and still remain undamaged. It was glorious. Also immune to plasma grenade splash (for those times when the aliens occasionally miss).
-Also I like the juxtaposition of uncover missions once plasma weapons are unlocked. It's like you have the ability to land an Avenger (a heavy armored ship) overwhelm your opponent by sheer force and technological prowess, but for the sake of the council's money and the image of your organisation to said council... you have to go in with a few agents armed tasers and plasma pistols, without any armor, and pulling up in a land Rover. (Gotta love irony)
Nevertheless still able to rock out the undercover missions with a team of skilled agents (I challenged myself and almost knocked out every combatent there... hows that for low profile. One agent punched so hard it killed).
-Also spoiler alert! But I didn't realize the cults were tied to organizations till the end. Spoiler: Apocalypse was tied to UAC, Dagon tied to T'Leith, Exalt tied to MiB, Red dawn to Osiron, Zombies to MAGMA, Monsters to Syndicate, and Black Lotus to... don't know at this point.
-I got to the moon! Hovertank/Carrier not allowed in space or moon... not sure why. Also conquered underwater city, UAC aerospace lab, and finished many story arcs. Strangely, I'm running out of items to research. Also suddenly mib has taken interest, maybe moon base = new threat to mib. Also secured dimension X plot line but no dimension X wrapup it said I am missing securing ancient alien shipwreck (hmm...) that might also explain why I can't process mib shock armor. (Or get dimension X exploration. Or unlimited supply of acid grenades)
-In hindsight should've done easy for first time play through. Thinking because I mastered vanilla Xcom I should start upper mid difficultly was an error.
-I've been visiting the xcom files wiki page to learn more about the mod. I think I haven't gotten the spartan upgrade, nor syndicate package maybe on the basis of not wanting to finish up the monsters story arc.
-Oh once you are in space then floaters, and chasers show up... fascinating.
-also the gap between lunar suberbia and lunar control room seemed quite long.
-Thank you so much for all your hard work creating this game. It is how Xcom should've been when it was released in 94. (If they had the coding ability back then with MB processors)
Other Suggestions: Samurai power suit, (+20 tu, +30 stamina, good armor-50ish, resistance cutting)
Maybe starting sooner to allow more time to build up to the alien invasion, unless the two year sprint is intentional (or maybe I should've done easy first time around)
I'll download the lastest version soon, I'm guessing a lot has happened in 1.5 years since its now 2.9 when it was 2.2.
-If you've read this far you have my respect-
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Raptor29a on May 16, 2023, 01:26:32 am
Sorry to double post forgot to add Suggestion: maybe side doors or roof hatch to Avenger (missing the door action/escape plans I used to make with the SkyMartial)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 16, 2023, 08:57:55 pm
Should there be some trigger which will turn off ghost events as you complete the arc? There doesn't appear to be and IMO there should be. Though I suppose some could use these for training purposes and not complete the arc on purpose if there was a way to do it.

If I recall correctly, SS already said this arc is kinda incomplete at the moment. And I think someone also said you can just skip everything by not researching cover: scientists (which also skips most of the zombie arc?) to better focus on the main game. And it's certainly debatable, as the loot from the arc (certain PSI weapons, mostly) are not so useful as to make it worth it.

For a simple solution - while waiting for a completion of the arc -, getting "Residual Psionic Artifacts", which you can get by getting the three items from ghost missions, could turn off the ghost missions. After that you could no longer get ectoplasm though. But I'm not sure if anyone would want to use equipment using it in the longer term anyway. Currently researching that subject is a dead-end.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: OwenQ on May 17, 2023, 12:32:52 am
Is there some trick to telling what the light level of a tile is? I actually enjoy night missions, but I'm starting to feel like I'm going nuts, parking myself in a tile that *looks* dark but then getting shot by non-sniper units from well outside their alleged range (and sometimes out of the direction an agent's looking at!). I'm sure sometimes I'm just underestimating the distance or where the enemy is, but I've also had instances where I counted tiles and was *definitely* outside the attacker's  night vision range. But also a couple of times where I realized I was standing under a streetlight that just... wasn't very apparently luminant.

Night vision seems to arbitrarily light up all tiles in a radius around you, and fiddling with the Ctrl End levels makes the contrast a bit more apparent but still unreliable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Stone Lake on May 17, 2023, 08:23:41 am
Quote
After that you could no longer get ectoplasm though. But I'm not sure if anyone would want to use equipment using it in the longer term anyway.
There's some very good (or at least fun) spoiler equipment (not from the ghost arc) that you'll need ectoplasm for.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Vakrug on May 17, 2023, 10:19:08 am
Is there some trick to telling what the light level of a tile is?
No. Top authorities believe it is cheating...  :'(
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10898.msg150927.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10898.msg150927.html)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2023, 05:41:01 pm
Thank you for the thoughts! And for mentioning that problem with tanks being unavailable for some missions, it was a bug.

Spartans were introduced 10 days ago, so no wonder you didn't find it. :) Same with Infernals, which I added this week.

About that Samurai suit, can you please specify it further? Howe does it compare to the Synthsuit and the Assault Suit?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Raptor29a on May 18, 2023, 01:37:24 pm
Sure to specify further
Synthsuit
Armor 40, 35, 35 ,30
Kenetic 80%, 130% incendiary, 80% consussive, 110% laser, 110% plasma, 70% cutting, 120% chemical, emp 10%, 0% anti-E.
+20 TU , +30 STA

Assaultsuit
Armor 70, 50, 50, 40
+10 TU, +10 STA, +10 STR
20% incendiary, 90%Concussive, 80% stun, 0% choke, emp 40%, electric 35%, Warp 85%, anti-E 0%.

Samarisuit ( Or Spearman/bardiche/Axesuit for lack of better phrase. Provably shouldn't use Samerai because some blades are one handed)
Armor 75, 55, 55, 35 (change my mind on 50 armor points explination below)
No backpack/limited space (sword, grenades/throwables, and stims. Pistol if need be. So hands and belt)
+20 TU, +1 Energy regen or +20 STA
Weaknesses (Kenetic, Electric, EMP, Warp)
Kenetic 115%, Electric 120%, EMP 60%, Warp 110%, plasma 85%, Concussive 90%,

So the Synthsuit was great for cutting down cultists if you could get it early enough. The added stamina helps cut down on stim use. But it's major downfall was anything plasma, laser, chem, or warp (although warp isn't accurate). So anything Alien/MiB/UAC/Dim X/Alien hybrids could one shot kill (not to mention reaction fire of any splash weapon when melee engaged).
 -Assualtsuit is great mid game for sword play. anything below plasma rifle can be blocked by armor, which is sectiod (pistol/subrifle), or UAC (light/reg plasma rifle), and Cyberweb Ion Blaster attacks. But I don't see a listed resistance against plasma. Thus not as useful for swordplay late game when aliens have fast reflexes, great accuracy, and powerful plasma weapons. The Assualtsuit is great for snipers, rockets, motors, fusion launchers, supply support, because of the backpack space, extra strength, and extra TUs for the aimed shot. (So yes they do have many endgame tactical uses).
-Strangely the Juggernaut unarmed has great melee stats, because their unarmed is very powerful (average~80 stun after modifiers and armor effective 150%) the energy/stamina regen is good, but the issue is closing the gap between and attacking with ver few TUs, makes the melee option not viable as a primary strategy.
-So the idea was energy/stamina boost + TU for swordplay, but no backpack/less space as to discourage rockets/motors/ Fusion launchers, because there is no room for ammo. . The backpack could be a generator of some kind (Elerium or Zrbite). The higher armor stat is due to the high reaction stats of Aliens. (Could be terebite/aqua plastic/ alloy mix). The main problem I have with chopping up aliens is thier reaction fire often hits me first. So most of the time I'll have Juggernaut/flying/tanks leave Avenger first and fire to soak up reaction fire and then assualtsuit agent would find cover. Next turn I use main Force to shoot at enemy incase of reaction fire, then send in assualtsuit agent if main force didn't kill off the enemy. The main issue is after cutting down an opponent I either equip pistol for reaction fire (usually not enough TUs) or use the little time left to try and hide the exposed agent. It would be nice to close in the gap, hit the opponent, and then hide. Often I can reach the opponent, but after killing it, I'm a sitting duck (sometimes also out of stamina, but after using a stim I have no TUs left). A glancing plasma rifle shot will still kill Assualtsuits, so it must be slightly stronger than an assualtsuit to close distance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2023, 04:30:55 pm
Thanks, added it to my ideas bank.
No promises here, as this is probably way beyond my graphic skills; but if I find an artist to draw it, why not.
(Exact stats and such are to be reviewed.)

EDIT: Oh, and in case this comes too close to existing armours, I'd like to make it better and restricted to some specific agent type (for example to Spartans). But this is a "to be decided" thing.

EDIT 2: A little sneak peek into the upcoming cyborg revolution. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Lone Wolf on May 22, 2023, 11:01:20 pm
Hey everyone, coming back after a little while out of the game.  I was wondering, how are your squads organized? 

Obviously it can vary depending on the mission or terrain, but do you guys use the two man scout-sniper approach, or are your squads broken down into fireteams?

I've been deploying with Skymarshals or Kitsune's for 15-16 slots available.  I tend to favor ranged playstyles with a lot of heavy weapons.  I always take at least one mortar, and rocket launcher for these, along with a sniper to two.  Everybody else is a maneuver element, usually 6 agents and an HWP.  I don't have any set weapon loadout as I like to try out different weapons to see what works, but I prefer rifles.  Of course, these guys also carry grenades and sometimes a medikit. 

I don't feel like this is a great loadout.  It works for me, and I win engagements, but I feel like I'm not utilizing the full suite of weapons and equipment I have available to its full potential.  Hence, I want some advice/thoughts from the veterans? 
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Stone Lake on May 23, 2023, 04:53:22 am
Quote from: Lone Wolf
how are your squads organized
About the same as you. Long range team + scouts + assault team:
1-3 heavies (preferably tactical grenade launcher, sometimes rockets or mortars)
1-3 snipers
2-6 scouts (dogs/rats/AI scouts that see through the smoke). These get partially/completely replaced by HWPs when available.
4-6 assaults/ninjas (stun rods,punches/throwing axes, knives/shotguns/grenades for long range stuff).
2-6 psi troops (when available).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 23, 2023, 10:35:02 pm
Playing 3.0 snapshot, I stumbled upon a Betarian engineer in Chtonite Minibase Assault mission. At least according xcf.trigramreactor.net that is parsing the rulesets, that alien is not supposed to be here - not in the alien loadouts(?). I wonder how that has come to be. If this is intentional for whatever reason, I suppose the aforementioned parser is buggy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Juku121 on May 23, 2023, 11:49:58 pm
Aren't Betarians spawned through items in certain base missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 24, 2023, 04:44:20 am
Aren't Betarians spawned through items in certain base missions?

Indeed, they are spawned (STR_SPAWN_BETARIAN_ENGINEER) in certain UBASE definions. The abovementioned parser seems to be able to deal with it; at https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_BETARIAN_ENGINEER, the "Deployed in" includes about 15 various bases, most of which have STR_SPAWN_BETARIAN_ENGINEER as "Spawned items" and "Betarian Engineer" mentioned as Spawned unit, but not in alien loadouts. However, for whatever reason, the minibase assault description includes neither and according to that parser it shouldn't be spawning through the item on that mission. But as it does, I suppose the parser is buggy as this happened for me. The parser has been very reliable and useful so far in being able to determine what to expect in a first run.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 24, 2023, 05:51:08 am
Monstrous Breed research gives access to both Monsters: Final Solution (essentially endng monsters events) and Monsters: The Aftermath. The latter description refers to dealing of remaining monsters that have avoided extermination by a special unit. It sounds as if the Aftermath research should actually by dependent on The Final Solution, not completeable before it, because the description makes little sense otherwise.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 25, 2023, 02:46:54 pm
Yeah, Betiarians are supposed to spawn in Chtonite bases. Mostly because I didn't feel like making a separate terrain just without them, and their presence there isn't exactly illogical.

Monstrous Breed research gives access to both Monsters: Final Solution (essentially endng monsters events) and Monsters: The Aftermath. The latter description refers to dealing of remaining monsters that have avoided extermination by a special unit. It sounds as if the Aftermath research should actually by dependent on The Final Solution, not completeable before it, because the description makes little sense otherwise.

I can't remember now, but it's probably there in case there are some monster missions remaining, which may happen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 28, 2023, 05:22:06 am
Should there be some trigger which will turn off ghost events as you complete the arc? There doesn't appear to be and IMO there should be. Though I suppose some could use these for training purposes and not complete the arc on purpose if there was a way to do it.

If I recall correctly, SS already said this arc is kinda incomplete at the moment. And I think someone also said you can just skip everything by not researching cover: scientists (which also skips most of the zombie arc?) to better focus on the main game. And it's certainly debatable, as the loot from the arc (certain PSI weapons, mostly) are not so useful as to make it worth it.

For a simple solution - while waiting for a completion of the arc -, getting "Residual Psionic Artifacts", which you can get by getting the three items from ghost missions, could turn off the ghost missions. After that you could no longer get ectoplasm though. But I'm not sure if anyone would want to use equipment using it in the longer term anyway. Currently researching that subject is a dead-end.

I'll have to correct myself here. If you want to get Gillman Hero alive and recover its very useful power suit, based on the specs about the only way I could think of doing it reliably were the PSI weapons you can get from the ghost missions. I suppose they could be otherwise useful as well against the enemies that have too good armor to penetrate otherwise. So, not completely useless after all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on May 28, 2023, 08:09:44 am
How are you supposed to see which agents have so low sanity that they should remain at the base? As far as I can understand you can't see this when looking at the agent stats (or at least I can't parse them) and it's very difficult to see this when selecting who is going on a mission.

I think you need to calculate this manually by sorting with "Missing sanity" (which information doesn't appear to be available on the stats page) and manually subtracting that value from "sanity" stat? But what you would actually need is sorting or checking by remaining/current sanity, which doesn't appear to be available. Have I missed something or is this an engine limitation or something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Nerro on May 28, 2023, 01:43:32 pm
How are you supposed to see which agents have so low sanity that they should remain at the base? As far as I can understand you can't see this when looking at the agent stats (or at least I can't parse them) and it's very difficult to see this when selecting who is going on a mission.

I think you need to calculate this manually by sorting with "Missing sanity" (which information doesn't appear to be available on the stats page) and manually subtracting that value from "sanity" stat? But what you would actually need is sorting or checking by remaining/current sanity, which doesn't appear to be available. Have I missed something or is this an engine limitation or something?

Use the preview button. It will start a preview mission in which you can look at each soldier sanity.
It is not perfect since you can only see soldier that are in the craft, but that is the best way I know.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Mathel on May 28, 2023, 04:22:44 pm
If you select a healthy agent, it should tell you how much time till full sanity.
If you know how fast sanity recharges at your base, you can calculate how much they are missing.

Then subtract this from their max sanity and you have how much they have left.

I would also really like a way to just see sanity% of soldiers at a glance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Thunderwing280 on May 30, 2023, 12:42:09 am
Hey it's been a while since I was last active

I'm trying to download the mod on my laptop but the mod folder is on my onedrive, how do I move it off?


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Nerro on May 30, 2023, 10:13:41 am
Run Open X-COM Ex, Go to "Option > Folders" and change "User Folder".
(You can also change the other folders since that are at the same place by default.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Blazen on May 30, 2023, 12:24:25 pm
If you select a healthy agent, it should tell you how much time till full sanity.
If you know how fast sanity recharges at your base, you can calculate how much they are missing.

Then subtract this from their max sanity and you have how much they have left.

I would also really like a way to just see sanity% of soldiers at a glance.

You can sort by missing sanity in both the agent list and the crew list. And if you ctrl click in the sort menu it will just display it without changing their order. It shows it as an absolute number however not a percentage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 31, 2023, 12:58:31 pm
How are you supposed to see which agents have so low sanity that they should remain at the base?

My preferred method is going to the inventory and then pressing the rank icon (top left). Then you can click left and right arrows to brows all units on board.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: OwenQ on June 04, 2023, 01:59:02 pm
Am I supposed to be getting alien retaliation missions before the invasion? It's November '98 and I just got blindsided by Floaters showing up in a forward operating base in South America. That seems like odd behavior given the only UFO I've interacted with was one that happened to land right by my European base months ago. I did apparently turn aggressive retaliation on which I guess might do it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on June 05, 2023, 09:04:14 am
In my first game, I was a bit surprised to see Ethereal missions already in June/July 1999. Two small ones, then a large accompanied by two medium HKs.

But that aside, what are your best tactics of taking them down given the shields especially the higher tiers use, especially in the early game? At least at this stage of development, I found that good guys could melee them with katanas/battleaxes if can get to close combat (1 or 2 hits, meaning you'll need to prepare for getting reaction shot anyway). Spamming dozens of gas grenades (or mines) otherwise, as the shields shouldn't help protect against them (though it might require a surprising number of grenades each, even 3-5 hits). Shrapnel rockets or explosives, with 2-3 hits, seem to be OK but are very destructive and trigger their sniper/spotter mechanic so you'll likely be grenaded or shot the next turn. The big downside of these is that they cause a lot of smoke, and if you don't have an armor with good heat vision, the battlescape might be nightmare afterwards. In smaller ranges, 2-3 rounds of MAGMA pulse rifle with chem clips also works (but again, you need to prepare for the reaction shots). All in all, the small UFOs were somehow manageable, but the medium one with 20+ Ethereals was a major PITA. I dare not think about the large one with all the sectopods that are likely deployed there as well.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Mathel on June 05, 2023, 07:16:54 pm
Shotguns are notoriously good against shields.

Shields go over armor and as such are not protected by it. So for example a Heavy Shotgun Buckshot with 22x12 will do 264 damage to a shield from a short distance on average.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 06, 2023, 01:19:43 pm
Am I supposed to be getting alien retaliation missions before the invasion? It's November '98 and I just got blindsided by Floaters showing up in a forward operating base in South America. That seems like odd behavior given the only UFO I've interacted with was one that happened to land right by my European base months ago. I did apparently turn aggressive retaliation on which I guess might do it?

Yeah, if some random scout noticed your base, I can't see why they wouldn't attack you. You specifically enabled this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on June 10, 2023, 03:30:53 pm
In certain caves missions (noticed this with Chtonite Minibase Assault), the staircases appear to be destructible. A staircase was misshot by an alien, and as a result over half of my team was stranded in a dead-end part of the caves, so I had to complete the mission with other agents. I couldn't think of a way I could have gotten out of there. Maybe something to think about, for example should the stairs be made indestructible or at least more difficult to damage.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.7: Spectral Entities
Post by: zee_ra on June 13, 2023, 09:51:19 am

Btw, is there some kind of comprehensive summary/explanation of all wiki listed parameters? Some I did figure out, but others like aforementioned "Radius Effectiveness" are elusive. That would be much appreciated.

I don't think so, the ruleset reference (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)) is your best bet.


There actually a missing piece with the explanation of RadiusEffectiveness parameter.  It is stated that it is a part of calculations of the blast radius, but there is no formula that reveals its role.  Even as a coefficient, a parameter would influence the outcomes in very different ways, depending on its placement in the formula.

I would appreciate some explanation on this parameter, and perhaps a few examples would be appropriate.

I was surprised to see that its value is pretty low, e.g. 0.05 for stun and HE, and 0.03 for incendiary.  Why is that so?  Does the linear increase in the parameter result in the linear increase in the effective radius?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on June 13, 2023, 09:54:29 am
In certain caves missions (noticed this with Chtonite Minibase Assault), the staircases appear to be destructible. A staircase was misshot by an alien, and as a result over half of my team was stranded in a dead-end part of the caves, so I had to complete the mission with other agents. I couldn't think of a way I could have gotten out of there. Maybe something to think about, for example should the stairs be made indestructible or at least more difficult to damage.

I think, tactically, it's the same consideration as e.g. the issue of dead ends and walls in the cyberweb levels.  The solution is to exercise better tactical prowess of your own.

There are always multiple stairs available on the underground cave base levels, so it only makes sense to separate the squad into smaller groups, and approach multiple entrances.  Just think about the risks involved with lumping everyone together, when alien explosives are involved.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Lone Wolf on June 14, 2023, 10:01:47 pm
Hello everyone, does anybody know how to increase the number of UFO missions flying around?  It's January of 2001 and I don't seem to be getting a lot of them.  Granted I have tormentors with Guass and stormlance missiles and I have been aggressively intercepting anything that enters Earth's atmosphere, but things seem kind of dead.  I also have had very few encounters with MIB, and I have not seen any of their ufos in a while.  The only thing that seems to keep popping up are the damn Hybrid missions.  I know you can't wipe them as a faction, but I already did the control room assault and as far as my head cannon is concerned, they are finished. 

How do I increase the frequency of UFO and MIB missions while decreasing the Hybrid ones?  Also, I have researched Men In Black so that is not the problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Juku121 on June 14, 2023, 10:16:37 pm
How do I increase the frequency of UFO and MIB missions while decreasing the Hybrid ones?
Edit missionScripts_XCOMFILES.rul or make a submod with the changes. Mission frequency is controlled by 'executionOdds' and/or just adding more entries. Alien stuff is mostly at the beginning, but not always (e.g. Purges and Downtown Attacks). MiB are mostly towards the end, but a bit scattered. I'm pretty sure all of them can be found by searching for 'MIB', not so sure about the aliens.

Some MiB missions might need a live base/outpost to spawn them, so keep those around if you want to experience it all on a regular basis.

Hybrids can also be found by searching for 'hybrid', except for the chemtrails, holiday resort and Special Client missions. Fortunately, all Hybrid stuff is in one block towards the end.

...as far as my head cannon is concerned, they are finished. 
You sure you didn't mean the Heavy Head Cannon? :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Lone Wolf on June 15, 2023, 07:55:37 pm
Ok, I found the missions in the missionScripts file.  Once again the ease which I can make my own mods to this game amazes me...

Thanks for the help Juku!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Akamashi on June 20, 2023, 08:01:55 pm
Does the announcement of the creation of the golden Lotus Academy mean that this academy is now on the map?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2023, 01:15:03 pm
Does the announcement of the creation of the golden Lotus Academy mean that this academy is now on the map?

No, not necessarily.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Akamashi on June 28, 2023, 05:27:49 pm
It would be better if ultra-rare items (crossblaster, neon bow and so on)  were not destroyed after laboratory examination. It is almost impossible to get two such identical items before the final stage of the game. This makes the reward of the Hacienda and Meridian missions meaningless... I propose to change this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 28, 2023, 05:54:08 pm
It would be better if ultra-rare items (crossblaster, neon bow and so on)  were not destroyed after laboratory examination. It is almost impossible to get two such identical items before the final stage of the game. This makes the reward of the Hacienda and Meridian missions meaningless... I propose to change this.

I hear you, but I'm worried it would feel weird when some alien items can be examined without breaking them, but most cannot. When both are high-tech alien weapons. I haven't found a satisfactory solution yet.

BTW, I'd like to use this opportunity to share a few random pics related to the upcoming release.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: The Grand Kerbal on June 28, 2023, 11:43:33 pm
I am very excited for this update to come out. Particularly with the new soldier transformations that comes with it. Do you have any kind of ETA for when you plan on releasing this patch, or is it still too far to tell?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 29, 2023, 11:58:34 am
I am very excited for this update to come out. Particularly with the new soldier transformations that comes with it. Do you have any kind of ETA for when you plan on releasing this patch, or is it still too far to tell?

I'm mostly done, but there's still at least one mission I need to finish, and ideas are boiling in my head constantly, so we'll see... I'm hoping to be done by the end of this week, but it's not guaranteed.

Anyway, you can always download the current version from https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles/archive/refs/heads/master.zip - it's fully functional most of the time.

And more screens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on June 29, 2023, 06:33:06 pm
I shifted from 2.9 to 3.0-snap when it branched, and have updated a number of times as new updates have been added. It has been working like a charm. If you're curious of the new shiny things, I can't think of any reason why one couldn't start a new campaign already.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: The Grand Kerbal on June 29, 2023, 09:11:18 pm
Awesome, really looking forward to the release of 3.0 then. Thanks for the info
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 30, 2023, 08:44:35 pm
Finally, version 3.0 has been released.

- New advanced agent types: Spartan, Infernal.
- New UFOs: MiB Armory Ship (map by Civilian, slightly altered), MiB Escort Ship (map by Wolverin), MiB Freight Ship (map by Wolverin, altered).
- New missions: Reclamation of Aether Laboratory (by CosmicAfro), MiB Tritanium Ammo Shipment, MiB Freight, Sleep Wave Emitter.
- New HWP armor: Advanced Scout Drone.
- New unit: Reclamation of Aether Master (mostly by CosmicAfro).
- New weapons: Scoped Hunting Rifle, Dart Musket.
- New items: MiB Crate (sprite by Brain_322), Tritanium Ammo Supply Crate (and associated changes for both), Cyber Eye, Cyber Heart, Cyber Skin, Hormone Regulator, Magnetokinetic Gear, Sectopod Parts, Hyperstims, Advanced Healing Spray (graphics collab with Brain; old item renamed to Improved Healing Spray), Advanced Repair Kit Charge.
- New facility: Advanced Sick Bay (by Krautbernd, sprite by Brain_322).
- New transformation for all animals: Predator.
- New Ufopaedia section: Trainings & Augmentations.
- New manufacturing categories: Prisoners, Disassembly.
- New agent names.
- New hybrid names.
- New dog names (Korean).
- New technologies: Advanced Optics, Cyberoptics, Tissue Composites, Advanced Micromechanics, Alien Implants, Hypermetabolism, Sectopod Adaptation.
- New events: Untangling the Red Tape, Illegal Trade Foiled, MiB Tritanium Ammo Shipment, Serpentine Nest.
- Brought back the "Mysterious Parcel from Syndicate" event.
- Ensured that OXCE experience award system is used.
- Overhauled manufacturing categories.
- Decreased agents' hiring costs.
- Rebalanced and expanded Kyberi (further upgrades).
- Large Living Quarters hold 250 people.
- Reworked Sectopod tech tree.
- Cult Arms Dealers path can be refused.
- Share Tritanium Ammo Tech comes earlier, but tritanium clips from M.A.G.M.A. have limited stocks.
- Tritanium Cannon comes earlier and must be manufactured.
- Extended Illegal Requisition Files list.
- Meridian Hunting is now a one-time mission.
- David Vincent's Secret Shelter now uses reinforcements rules.
- Changed some ranks from Terrorist to Soldier.
- Dream creatures (including X-Com) are more resistant to Chemical damage.
- Color-coded Chasers (by 8mono).
- Improved Giant Beetle paperdoll (by Mikkoi).
- Proper Shadowbat Autopsy pic.
- Advanced drone bays can be built on earlier ones.
- Urban and Urban Deco terrains use extended roads.
- Sliding movement tweaks (by Dioxine).
- Island terrain values fixed (by Dioxine).
- Fixed Ion Beam Acceleration prerequisites.
- Fixed a hole in the Skyraider.
- Fixed strings in the Prisoner Overview.
- Fixed Interceptor article.
- Fixed some ghost regions.
- Fixed Black Lotus post-HQ event script.
- Fixed some tanks' availability on some missions.
- Minor fixes.

It's a round number, and I really wanted to do this number justice. Hopefully I succeeded. ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on June 30, 2023, 09:29:07 pm
- David Vincent's Secret Shelter now uses reinforcements rules.
Oh, great! This mission was a hell earlier, considering how early it spawns, and now with unspecified amount of reinforcements...  :'(
- Dream creatures (including X-Com) are more resistant to Chemical damage.
The only mission where Dagon's Staff was useful...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on June 30, 2023, 09:47:24 pm
Oh, great! This mission was a hell earlier, considering how early it spawns, and now with unspecified amount of reinforcements...  :'(

It might depend on the advancement stage where you complete this mission (I researched MIB tech late, because it was so expensive relatively to the rest), but when playing 3.0-snap I found this mission to be relatively easy (AFAIR). Just keep your guys inside the house in specifically selected spots where they can't hit you from the outside at least on their turn, and you can snipe them out from the house. Making brief visits on the roof is also great for some sniping or throwing explosives. It gets a bit trickier if and when you want to catch some of the enemies alive.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 01, 2023, 10:54:04 am
Oh, great! This mission was a hell earlier, considering how early it spawns, and now with unspecified amount of reinforcements...  :'

There are no extra reinforcements, only the mechanics changed. In fact it's marginally easier, since most troops arrive after turn 1.

(The only mission where Dagon's Staff was useful...

Your definition of "useful" is rather controversial. :-\
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Raptor29a on July 01, 2023, 11:03:33 am
Finally, version 3.0 has been released.
- New transformation for all animals: Predator.
-Sweet! Time to dust off the old X-Rat in storage and send him on a mission. 2 Strength + 2 bonus strength = 4
Cutting damage being 5+ (5×Strength)...
can now be 25 the same as a Combat Knife!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: MoonKid on July 01, 2023, 11:34:08 am
Might it be OK just to play with my current xfiles 2.* save game?
Or should I totaly restart for a better experience?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on July 01, 2023, 05:51:47 pm
Your definition of "useful" is rather controversial. :-\
Is it because there are better items to take into a dream, or the stuff is more useful elsewhere?

Might it be OK just to play with my current xfiles 2.* save game?
Or should I totaly restart for a better experience?
It's a round number, and I really wanted to do this number justice. Hopefully I succeeded. ;)
Well, you see, application versioning convention suggests that version 3.0 should be incompatible with 2.x. You can try to open your 2.9 save inside 3.0, but Solarius will be upset, because "number was not justified"...  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 01, 2023, 06:52:46 pm
Might it be OK just to play with my current xfiles 2.* save game?
Or should I totaly restart for a better experience?

I've played 2.8, 2.9 and 3.0 snapshots from github using the same saves. It has worked just fine.

I suppose you might consider restarting at least if you're far along and have already transformed your best soldiers and would rather try the new transformation (of which spartanism is IMHO really good).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 02, 2023, 12:46:31 pm
Might it be OK just to play with my current xfiles 2.* save game?
Or should I totaly restart for a better experience?

You can continue your old campaign with no problems.

Is it because there are better items to take into a dream, or the stuff is more useful elsewhere?

I think it's a rather useful weapon, if situational.

And it made all other weapons irrelevant in Dreamlands.

Well, you see, application versioning convention suggests that version 3.0 should be incompatible with 2.x. You can try to open your 2.9 save inside 3.0, but Solarius will be upset, because "number was not justified"...  ;D

What the heck are you implying again? Cut down on this stealth aggression please, it's getting on my nerves and overall not very friendly.

I suppose you might consider restarting at least if you're far along and have already transformed your best soldiers and would rather try the new transformation (of which spartanism is IMHO really good).

Yeah, if you've kyberized all your people, then you won't be able to try the new transformations.

BTW, I'm preparing a bugfix release. It's nothing major, there are no major glitches, just some minor stuff like some custom attack names in Pedia. Tomorrow, probably (I want to watit a bit more for bug reports).

EDIT:

Bugfix version 3.0.1 has been released.

- Added Ufopaedia entry for Betarian Zapper and Vampire Bite.
- Live Sectopod research needed for Sectopod adaptation.
- Customized attack names in the Ufopaedia.
- Fixed Ninja Arts's category in the Ufopaedia.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 07, 2023, 07:33:11 pm
Tried a new game. If I counted it right, there 23 missions spawned in January (and I think all of them involve a significant despawn penalty). Even if you're were constantly running at them with two (or at the end of the month, three) public cars, it would be essentially impossible to deal with all of them (not to mention that many of them would rather require a van to be safe(r) or save scumming). I wonder if this is really the right amount of events, especially in the early game? Four cult apprehension missions from Red Dawn alone in the first month? Even if the amount was halved there would still be a lot of work to do. (And given the mortality rate of agents in the early game, you might expect to lose 10-20 agents in the first months in these missions.)

Quote
- "gameTime: 1997-01-03 10:00:00 siteId: 1 siteType: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_CENTRAL_ASIA deployment: STR_DEAD_CATTLE ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-03 19:30:00 siteId: 1 siteType: STR_CROP_CIRCLES race: STR_FARMER region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA deployment: STR_CROP_CIRCLES ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-04 19:00:00 siteId: 2 siteType: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_SIBERIA deployment: STR_DEAD_CATTLE ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-05 21:00:00 siteId: 1 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-08 09:30:00 siteId: 2 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-09 05:30:00 siteId: 3 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS region: STR_PACIFIC...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-09 09:30:00 siteId: 4 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_ARCTIC...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-09 17:30:00 siteId: 1 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_GIANT_SPIDER region: STR_SOUTH_AMERICA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_FEW_DESERT ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-10 00:30:00 siteId: 2 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_GIANT_RAT region: STR_NORTH_AMERICA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SINGLE_JUNGLE ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-11 02:30:00 siteId: 5 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON region: STR_EUROPE...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-11 03:00:00 siteId: 3 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_MONGORN region: STR_ARCTIC deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_FEW_COLD ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-13 19:00:00 siteId: 6 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_SIBERIA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-14 02:00:00 siteId: 3 siteType: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA deployment: STR_DEAD_CATTLE ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-14 19:00:00 siteId: 7 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_EXALT region: STR_SOUTH_AMERICA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-19 04:00:00 siteId: 8 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS region: STR_AUSTRALASIA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-19 12:00:00 siteId: 4 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_CHUPACABRA region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SEVERAL_DESERT ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-20 07:30:00 siteId: 9 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS region: STR_SOUTH_EAST_ASIA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-20 16:30:00 siteId: 10 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_CENTRAL_ASIA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-20 18:00:00 siteId: 5 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_REAPER region: STR_CENTRAL_ASIA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_FEW_TEMPERATE ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-21 03:00:00 siteId: 6 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE region: STR_AUSTRALASIA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SEVERAL_DESERT ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-26 07:00:00 siteId: 7 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_SPIKEBOAR region: STR_AUSTRALASIA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SINGLE_TEMPERATE ...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-27 07:00:00 siteId: 11 siteType: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION race: STR_EXALT region: STR_NORTH_AMERICA...
  - "gameTime: 1997-01-29 14:30:00 siteId: 8 siteType: STR_MONSTER_HUNT race: STR_WEREWOLF region: STR_SIBERIA deployment: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SINGLE_COLD ...

(Removed various event popups)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 07, 2023, 08:02:51 pm
I think this particular set of missions was just happenstance. On average, you should be getting the following per each early game month:

Unless you're playing Superhuman with its inflated enemy counts, Apprehensions (well, at least shooting the culprits) should be very doable, ditto for the farmer missions. The cryptids were probably the hard part. An early Reaper, Werewolf, two packs of Zombies, some Chupacabras... Yeah, not seeing these going well during your first month.


The logistics issue is genuine enough, though. Assuming you have to fly to the other side of the globe, you can squeeze out about 8*(2-3 cars) sorties. Of course, lots of missions are usually closer, but they are also not perfectly timed and you might need some downtime for your agents/equipment orders/etc as well. So I'd guess ~20 missions are manageable with skill and some luck. The average seems definitely doable, but, as we can see, the RNG gods can supply some bad months as well. Maybe the first month could be a grace period for, like, half of the Mission1-Mission7 scripts?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 07, 2023, 08:15:41 pm
Looking at the save a bit more, month 0 (i.e. December 1996) mission scripts seem to be spawning 13 of those events, and month 1 mission scripts 9 missions. In February there will be 10 missions.

This smells like a bug. In January 1997 you're essentially getting missions, for whatever reasons, based both month 0 and month 1. From there onwards, it should be more reasonable.

I wonder if a quick fix would be changing all "firstMonth: 0" missionscripts to "firstMonth: 1".

Quote
- "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionEXALT1 id: 1 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_EXALT race: STR_EXALT region: STR_SOUTH_AMERICA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 0"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionZSRR1 id: 2 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_ZSRR race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_SIBERIA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 3"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionDagon2 id: 3 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_CHURCH_OF_DAGON race: STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 5"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionZSRR2 id: 4 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_ZSRR race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_CENTRAL_ASIA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 2"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionLotus4 id: 5 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_BLACK_LOTUS race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS region: STR_PACIFIC targetZone: 3 targetArea: 4"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionDagon4 id: 6 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_CHURCH_OF_DAGON race: STR_CHURCH_OF_DAGON region: STR_EUROPE targetZone: 3 targetArea: 26"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionEXALT4 id: 7 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_EXALT race: STR_EXALT region: STR_NORTH_AMERICA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 33"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionLotus7 id: 8 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_BLACK_LOTUS race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS region: STR_SOUTH_EAST_ASIA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 27"
  - "month: 0 script: CultApprehensionZSRR7 id: 9 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_ZSRR race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 6"
  - "month: 0 script: MonsterHuntFewCold id: 10 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_FEW_COLD race: STR_MONGORN region: STR_ARCTIC targetZone: 15 targetArea: 7"
  - "month: 0 script: MonsterHuntSingleCold3 id: 11 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SINGLE_COLD race: STR_WEREWOLF region: STR_SIBERIA targetZone: 15 targetArea: 8"
  - "month: 0 script: MonsterHuntSeveralDesert3 id: 12 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SEVERAL_DESERT race: STR_CHUPACABRA region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: 14 targetArea: 0"
  - "month: 0 script: MonsterHuntFewDesert5 id: 13 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_FEW_DESERT race: STR_GIANT_SPIDER region: STR_SOUTH_AMERICA targetZone: 14 targetArea: 8"
  - "month: 0 script: deadCattle1 id: 14 type: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: 1 targetArea: 1"
 - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_RAT_INFESTATION days/hours: 1/12"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_CHUPACABRA_GORE_PILE days/hours: 1/17"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_TLETH_DEEP_SEA_HORROR days/hours: 27/22"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_CYDONIANS_OLD_CROP_CIRCLES days/hours: 25/2"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_HYBRID_UN_INFILTRATOR days/hours: 28/3"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_QUARTERMASTER_INTRODUCTION days/hours: 1/4"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_CHIEF_ACCOUNTANT_INTRODUCTION days/hours: 0/20"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_INTELLIGENCE_OFFICER_INTRODUCTION days/hours: 0/6"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_CHIEF_MEDICAL_OFFICER_INTRODUCTION days/hours: 1/6"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_RANDOM_LAND_SURVEY days/hours: 21/10"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 12:00:00 eventSpawn: STR_UNTANGLING_THE_RED_TAPE days/hours: 26/2"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-30 18:30:00 eventPopup: STR_INTELLIGENCE_OFFICER_INTRODUCTION"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-31 08:30:00 eventPopup: STR_CHIEF_ACCOUNTANT_INTRODUCTION"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-31 16:00:00 eventPopup: STR_QUARTERMASTER_INTRODUCTION"
  - "gameTime: 1996-12-31 18:00:00 eventPopup: STR_CHIEF_MEDICAL_OFFICER_INTRODUCTION"
  - "month: 1 script: CultApprehensionLotus5 id: 15 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_BLACK_LOTUS race: STR_BLACK_LOTUS region: STR_AUSTRALASIA targetZone: 3 targetArea: 2"
  - "month: 1 script: CultApprehensionZSRR6 id: 16 type: STR_CULT_APPREHENSION_ZSRR race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_ARCTIC targetZone: 3 targetArea: 2"
  - "month: 1 script: MonsterHuntSingleTemperate4 id: 17 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SINGLE_TEMPERATE race: STR_SPIKEBOAR region: STR_AUSTRALASIA targetZone: 1 targetArea: 8"
  - "month: 1 script: MonsterHuntSingleJungle4 id: 18 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SINGLE_JUNGLE race: STR_GIANT_RAT region: STR_NORTH_AMERICA targetZone: 13 targetArea: 2"
  - "month: 1 script: MonsterHuntSeveralDesert4 id: 19 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_SEVERAL_DESERT race: STR_ZOMBIE_STERILE region: STR_AUSTRALASIA targetZone: 14 targetArea: 9"
  - "month: 1 script: MonsterHuntFewTemperate6 id: 20 type: STR_MONSTERS_HUNT_FEW_TEMPERATE race: STR_REAPER region: STR_CENTRAL_ASIA targetZone: 1 targetArea: 11"
  - "month: 1 script: deadCattle id: 21 type: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_CENTRAL_ASIA targetZone: 1 targetArea: 4"
  - "month: 1 script: deadCattle1 id: 22 type: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_SIBERIA targetZone: 1 targetArea: 0"
  - "month: 1 script: cropCircles2 id: 23 type: STR_CROP_CIRCLES race: STR_FARMER region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: 1 targetArea: 5"
...

Edits:

I also checked my first game logs from April 2023. There month 0 spawned 9 missions, month 1 6 missions and month 2 8 missions. So this "roughly double the missions in January 1997" has been going on for some time.

Now, after restarting I got 8 missions for month 0 and 5 for month 1, so RNG affects this a LOT, and the total seemed reasonable (though 5 missions in month 0 would have been totally fine as well, to get you started on the game).

Nonetheless I would suggest that firstMonth:0 missions should be seriously reconsided, because the monthly missions scripting has not really been designed for a game that starts at the end of the month rather at the start - the missions generated will practically happen at the start of the next month anyway due to the way the randomDelay works.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 07, 2023, 08:17:33 pm
Oh, right. :-[ Very true.

I guess it's a holdover from when you didn't start in December.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 16, 2023, 12:38:55 pm
A bugfix version 3.0.2 has been released.
- Added Ufopaedia entry to Spitter Spit.
- Changed mixed alien crews to give them a Commander.
- Combat Pilot Training gives +2 Stamina.
- Fixed Alien Drone Weapon Ufopaedia trigger.
- Fixed Sanity drain on the Aether Lab mission.
- EXPANDEDTERROR17 stairs fix (by Dioxine).
- Golden Academy stairs fix (thanks to Yankes).
- Fixed some Alien Tunnels' walls.
- Fixed points value in "Cure for Cancer" description.
- Fixed some damage dissipation ranges.
- Fixed some descriptions that were too long.
- Minor fixes.

There is nothing especially important in here, but a lot of tiny bugs were found, so I decided to fix them before moving on to more serious changes. Enjoy.

EDIT: A bugfix version 3.0.3 has been released.

- New Australian names.
- UAC Underground Weapon Distribution requires Subculture: Cavemen.
- Fixed Old UFO Landing Site and Old UFO Crash Site to launch correctly.
- Minor fixes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Anvarito on July 18, 2023, 10:26:40 pm
I have a problem after launching the mod gives an error -
[18-07-2023_23-45-12] [ERROR] failed to load 'X-Com Files'; mod disabled
Weapon STR_HUMAN_SONIC_SHOTGUN has clip size 0 and no ammo defined. Please use 'clipSize: -1' for unlimited ammo, or allocate a compatibleAmmo item.
Tried different versions of OXCE and different old versions of the mod, but everywhere the same result, what did I not take into account?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Meridian on July 19, 2023, 07:50:20 am
Attach the whole log please.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: orb370 on July 19, 2023, 10:36:07 pm
Hi, I'm relatively new to Xcom modding (though not new to Xcom in general), and I've really enjoyed your mod. I've probably have put over 100 hours at this point (and got wiped by a base assault in my last run), so I thought I'd give some feedback. I've been playing Vet 3 Ironman.

I think some more guidance would be nice in the early game. Acquiring a intel/bio lab is absolutely essential, but I had no clue these were important or even how to get them. I spent a lot of time stuck on 5 researchers researching random junk in my first run. Either more direct guidance on this for the Xcom General Strategy report, or lock the random equipment research behind the intel lab research, for example. Same thing with the bio lab - no corpse research until you have it. It would be also nice if the general report more specifically say what is required for promotion. ("ex)autopsy and capture a strange creature").

I think David Vincent's Secret Shelter comes too early or is just plain too hard. I've been wiped basically every time I try it (3 runs), even with a 16 man crew once.  Its not like I can prepare either - the enemies use new weapons (and now you're surprised by reinforcements!), so you're likely to be wiped your first try. No escape missions should be easier than average or at least be clearly labeled as difficult.

Haunted House/Farm, it took me a long time to realize the Farm is the easier mission type. I see now it does say "fortified", but maybe something like "significant  paranormal activity in the area" to better emphasize it.  Or even better would be to have the House mission spawn later. It seems like House missions always spawn first.

A warning of some kind (Xcom General strategy 3?) that aliens can assault your base before their invasion. I never reached the invasion date.

Prevent spawning of settlement killing swarms in the early months, trying to kill 30 beetles with 2 guys is incredibly boring (but doable). Tbh I find this variant of the mission type boring anyway, killing 30 of anything that doesn't approach you like zombies is dull.

Industrial Undercover missions seem generally not worth it, high degree of risk with a firearm present and no useful/interesting reward. (More money sellables perhaps?).

UAC cannon research unlocks way too early. Generally confused me about how to arm the Hum-vee. Also wouldn't hurt to more clearly state that you arm Hum-vee's/Little Birds with LMGs, I had some confusion there.

One of my more painful wipes was at the Red Dawn HQ, while with a weaker squad I was able to take out the Church of Dragon with relative ease. I do think its interesting that the cults vary in difficulty, but maybe a suggestion in Xcom General Strategy 2 to focus on the Church would help (We think infiltrating the Church of Dragon first would be the most feasible).

I had a facepalm moment when I discovered after dissolving the Church of Dagon I needed a live deep one for an entire arc of the tech tree. Maybe allow Gillmen interrogation to also unlock those techs? Or maybe an explicit warning on the Church of Dagon dissolve tech.

I believe it was on the graveyard mission, I couldn't bring a skyranger but could bring a Dragonfly? I found that a bit weird.

Was able to manufacture the Dr. Hardrox gun but not any other ghost equipment, which I was thankful for but didn't really make sense. I haven't done the reclaim the lab mission yet (I assume that unlocks manufactoring?)

Exalt grenade launchers with flame grenades seems too strong, I basically just avoid Exalt after a certain point.

Is there anyway to remove flames besides fire extinguisher? Could the TU cost be reduced on firing it? I found flames to be annoyingly punishing. The TU cost basically forces you to have a FE on your belt instead of backpack, in addition to the other problems (DoT, moral loss, stunning your own soldier with the FE...).

Oh also once again thanks for making this mod. I really enjoyed the mod (despite the wall of text). The first time I saw the aliens (when the military splashed the UFO) was a great moment, finally I got to fight the aliens, and it was suitably terrifying.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 20, 2023, 09:55:32 am
Don't take this as hostile, these are some good points. But I am not able to read a wall of text without spaghettifying it back. :-[

I think some more guidance would be nice in the early game.
That is more in the realm of a strategy guide, isn't it? Personally, I'm not a fan of everything having explicit instructions and quest compasses, but obviously the modern gamer disagrees.

We do have the four 'strategy' articles and a Field Manual section in the Pedia.

Acquiring a intel/bio lab is absolutely essential, but I had no clue these were important or even how to get them. I spent a lot of time stuck on 5 researchers...
Well, wasn't that your clue, then? :)

This is kind of a problem with every game that has a tech tree. Fortunately, you can use the Tech Tree Viewer (or the XCF auto-wiki (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7752.0.html)) to browse yourself to a path to victory (or at least a less embarrasing defeat). Or learn from your mistakes. One guy made Gantt charts, even. :D

It would be also nice if the general report more specifically say what is required for promotion. ("ex)autopsy and capture a strange creature").
Well, the "X-Com GIB: General Strategy" article does say "we must capture or dissect such a creature". What do you think is missing there?

I think David Vincent's Secret Shelter comes too early or is just plain too hard.
You need to have gotten both Vincent and a live MiB agent researched for that. Given how long it takes to interrogate one of the MiB, you're either running ahead of the curve or just researching random stuff at that point.

You can also delay researching the dossier. Granted, that's not really a new player thing to do, but if you've gotten your ass kicked once, maybe some reflection is in order?

It's not as if you lose out on anything important if you skip it, either.

No escape missions should be easier than average or at least be clearly labeled as difficult.
"Be careful... We will not be able to retreat..."

I mean, if someone doesn't pay attention to the briefings, even red neon letters will not help. And if they do, the above is at least somewhat of a warning. A bigger one would be kinda metagamey.

A warning of some kind (Xcom General strategy 3?) that aliens can assault your base before their invasion. I never reached the invasion date.
How? I've never been invaded, period. And many others manage to reach 1999 just fine, even new players. Is this some recent thing?

Aliens don't really fly random retaliation missions before a couple of months to the invasion, at most. And shooting down UFOs is kinda hard before that, too. You aren't playing with Brutal AI's super-retaliation, or something, are you?

Note that theoretically, you can also get invaded by the more terrestrial factions, like the cults, MiB or Syndicate. I've never actually managed to trigger those, either.

...killing 30 of anything that doesn't approach you like zombies is dull.
There's a submod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10811.0.html) for that. Not very up to date, but I hope it still works for most critters.

Industrial Undercover missions seem generally not worth it, high degree of risk with a firearm present and no useful/interesting reward. (More money sellables perhaps?).
You get nailguns and Spypistols later on, but yeah, these (and sports/research missions) have been kinda underwhelming for a while.

...I was able to take out the Church of Dragon with relative ease.
Well, a nicely positioned Deep One Gillman can be a lot of pain, and there are also some sonic guns. But, yeah, if you don't get swarmed/grenaded right away, this is relatively easy.

We think infiltrating the Church of Dragon first would be the most feasible.
How would the intelligence know? Isn't it your job as the Commander Chief Agent to evaluate your troops' tactical performance against various threats?

I had a facepalm moment when I discovered after dissolving the Church of Dagon I needed a live deep one for an entire arc of the tech tree. Maybe allow Gillmen interrogation to also unlock those techs?
You can access this arc and more live Gillmen Deep Ones via live Sorcerer interrogation as well, and you cannot even assault the HQ without that. It's just that if you destroy the original cult, it's a lot less likely that you'll happen upon one of these places (20% vs some 30-70%+ per month).

I believe it was on the graveyard mission, I couldn't bring a skyranger but could bring a Dragonfly? I found that a bit weird.
The Dragonfly is supposed to be an infiltration craft, at least for some specific missions. This seems to be one. Skyrangers are full-on military planes.

Was able to manufacture the Dr. Hardrox gun but not any other ghost equipment, which I was thankful for but didn't really make sense.
The Hadriex gun is special, and actually predates the entire ghost arc. But, yeah, since most of these things are just banged-together ectoplasm dispensers, it is a bit strange.

I haven't done the reclaim the lab mission yet (I assume that unlocks manufactoring?)
Nope.

Exalt grenade launchers with flame grenades seems too strong...
Dagonites also have grenades and Milkors. In general, enemy grenades are a major PITA.

Is there anyway to remove flames besides fire extinguisher?
Extinguisher clips for Hybrid chemoguns. Medical drones. Smoke grenades don't work on people, but do work on open fires.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 20, 2023, 12:21:42 pm
Thanks for the input, orb370. Glad you are having fun, mostly.

I generally agree with all points made by Juku. Some additional comments:
1) I've decided to add some tips on getting both early labs. They're such crucial techs that I don't mind adding a bit more handholding. Working on it now.
2) I agree that at least some of the ghost-related equipment should be manufacturable. I'll think about it.
3) I'll think about the Industrial Investigation as well. I wonder how much money would be needed to make the mission more attractive.

And one more thing, since I really need to say this: a newbie player on difficult 3 AND IRONMAN, who complains about difficulty??? How does this even work? Playing a game for the first time and choosing such options only makes sense if you do it for the lulz; but if you wanted to play seriously with such an enormous challenge, why on Earth would you complain afterwards? I don't get it at all...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 20, 2023, 01:25:58 pm
This is kind of a problem with every game that has a tech tree. Fortunately, you can use the Tech Tree Viewer (or the XCF auto-wiki (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7752.0.html)) to browse yourself to a path to victory (or at least a less embarrasing defeat). Or learn from your mistakes. One guy made Gantt charts, even. :D

Writing to the OP:

The challenge with more complex games is that a beginner really has no way of knowing how you should play. The mod author could try to put as much information in the game itself, but more often or not even that is not read, and there are limits to that (XCF does include more help than usual). In essence the player needs strategy guides and such. There are many useful threads here (I suggest in particular the "Tips and tricks" thread). If someone maintained a wiki, a list of links or something, I suppose *at most* there could be a pointer to such resources in the mod readme.

Quote
Well, the "X-Com GIB: General Strategy" article does say "we must capture or dissect such a creature". What do you think is missing there?

Actually, isn't the text factually incorrect as you need both, not just either one of them (as the article implies)?

Quote
I mean, if someone doesn't pay attention to the briefings, even red neon letters will not help. And if they do, the above is at least somewhat of a warning. A bigger one would

It's actually kinda late if not being able to retreat is revealed in the briefing (when you're already embarked upon the mission). You probably meant mission description, and yes, David Vincent's house warns of not being able to retreat in both.

Quote
How? I've never been invaded, period. And many others manage to reach 1999 just fine, even new players. Is this some recent thing?

Aliens don't really fly random retaliation missions before a couple of months to the invasion, at most. And shooting down UFOs is kinda hard before that, too. You aren't playing with Brutal AI's super-retaliation, or something, are you?

Note that theoretically, you can also get invaded by the more terrestrial factions, like the cults, MiB or Syndicate. I've never actually managed to trigger those, either.

There is at least one way this could occur. The syndicate launches a retaliation mission with 100 % chance when STR_SYNDICATE_PISSED is true and STR_SYNDICATE_REPULSED is false. I've had this occur to me, but I don't recall if it was before or after the invasion started (likely slightly after). The base defense mission was rather easy though (as long as all your agents are not out on a mission when this occurs).

There are also a few other triggers at alien retaliation missions, but it seems unlikely that these would get triggered before the invasion starts (such as: don't research alien commander until you need it).

...

As for which HQ to tackle first, you cannot usually plan this ahead that much. It is up to RNG which cults spawn forward bases or give another chance to capture a cultist that knows about their HQ (there is only a 4 % chance per cult per month to locate one). In my current SH/IM run, in May 1998 I have had zero forward base missions (in 7-8 months). But I got a durathread factory mission, which is a more easy way to capture a Red Dawn Coordinator and squeeze out the location of the HQ. Red Dawn HQ isn't too hard if you get a decent spawn location and you know sniper/spotter mechanics and cheese the missions. Likewise, Black Lotus is also relatively easy if you cheese it by camping and bring along scout drones to spot the assassins (or at the very least a lot of dogs to sniff them out). I think I've seen a YT video without save scumming dealing BL HQ with a crew of 8 but I'd definitely wait for the osprey.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: orb370 on July 20, 2023, 07:38:53 pm
For the Alien Retaliation:

It was about 10 aliens that completely resisted kinetics. I sped up time afterward and my 2nd base got destroyed a few weeks later.

I did interrogate a Sectoid navigator, was that it? I also shot down a small scout UFO w/ a Mig. I guess that would make sense as well.

On difficulty:
I wasn't really complaining, didn't mean for it to come across that way. I just found some strange difficulty spikes. I've beaten Xenonauts (and the original Xcom) on the highest difficulty, (though it is relatively easier than this mod!), so I definitely don't mind the difficulty.  I agree on the church thing - I was just surprised there were scout cars when I didn't even have access to AT weapons yet, so I thought there was a set order you're supposed to take them out. And yeah I did get access to the HQ through the durathread mission. So I probably jumped the gun too early anyway.

On MIB interrogation: Ah yeah, I guess you're right in the sense that interrogation doesn't unlock anything when you can do it, so I probably did it too early. Maybe it could be locked behind the advanced intelligence center?

On handholding:

The information on promotions is already there, you just have to dig through the tech tree viewer. I thought a little more guidance would be nice and thematic, but obviously up to you, was just reflecting. I already know the info now - it wouldn't be for me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 20, 2023, 07:46:53 pm
...aliens that completely resisted kinetics.
That doesn't really narrow it down much, depending on what kind of kinetics you had. I guess it wasn't Mutons. Gazers? Armoured Reptoids Hybrids?

I did interrogate a Sectoid navigator, was that it? I also shot down a small scout UFO w/ a Mig.
Interrogations don't cause retaliation. Shooting down even the tiniest UFO does, however. Well, or at least causes a check for retaliation, the aliens don't avenge everything.

I just found some strange difficulty spikes.
This isn't a balanced mod. :P It's not even complete, and I doubt it will ever be.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: orb370 on July 20, 2023, 07:57:58 pm
That doesn't really narrow it down much, depending on what kind of kinetics you had. I guess it wasn't Mutons. Gazers? Armoured Reptoids Hybrids?

Ah yeah Gazers. It was definitely doable - but I had bad luck as my main squad had just finished a tough mission and were all wounded/dead.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 20, 2023, 08:03:19 pm
Interrogations don't cause retaliation. Shooting down even the tiniest UFO does, however. Well, or at least causes a check for retaliation, the aliens don't avenge everything.

Even if it's not relevant in this particular case, just for the record, to make sure that it's not just shooting down UFOs that causes retaliation missions against your bases:

- researching STR_COMMANDER_PLUS does cause monthly retaliation missions targeting a base
- researching MIB commander under certain conditions causes Ethereal retaliation mission targeting a base
- month 22 ->, there is also a 20% chance of retaliation missions even if you didn't shoot down any UFOs
- and there are a few other cases (such as The syndicate retaliation) which cause retaliation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 20, 2023, 08:10:39 pm
Okay, I was wrong. :( Researching some high-ranking enemies does cause retaliation.

One more source of retaliation are cultist bases. I guess Solarius hasn't found the necessary sadism for adding alien-base-generated retaliation missions (yet?). :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 21, 2023, 03:39:47 pm
Where can I see the current number of points and what do they affect (by points, I mean penalties for ignoring missions, points for victories, etc.)?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 21, 2023, 03:53:50 pm
The in-game SCORE graph. If you want a precise numerical value, wait until the end of the month or look into your save.

AFAIK, score only affects funding changes and the score-based game over.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 21, 2023, 04:44:35 pm
Where can I see the current number of points and what do they affect (by points, I mean penalties for ignoring missions, points for victories, etc.)?

I think you're actually asking what kind of positive or negative points you get from various missions.

Victory points depend on many factors (how many you kill/capture etc., sometimes you get points for fulfilling the specific mission objective). You can see the ignore (despawn) mission penalty in the mission description. But for information on what penalty you get for aborting the mission, go to http://xcf.trigramreactor.net and search for the mission.

For example:

- Syndicate Warehouse mission despawn penalty is 100 points, abort penalty 50 points.
- Monster terror mission has despawn penalty of 600 points, but you get no penalty for aborting the mission.
- Various monster hunt missions have despawn penalty of 150 points, but no abort penalty.
- *HQ missions have despawn penalty of 100 points, but no abort penalty.

You're points-wise AFAICS always better off by going on a mission and then aborting it immedately rather than letting it despawn. The rare exception are those few missions which you cannot abort.

That site is also good for checking out the interval (in hours) how long various missions are available until they despawn. This will help you to plan which transport and how you will want to get to the mission before it despawns.

Wish: if only OXCE was able to show an ETA or duration how long it takes for a transport to get to its destination.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 22, 2023, 08:41:41 am
Thanks for the info.
How long does an agent's training last? And it's strange that I can assign agents to the task who are training ... is that right?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 22, 2023, 09:13:25 am
Thanks for the info.
How long does an agent's training last? And it's strange that I can assign agents to the task who are training ... is that right?

OXCE trains the agents once a day (provided that they are not wounded). The chance of improvement depends on how much the agent can still improve (i.e. training is faster in the beginning). Taking into account also the time the agent is out on a mission would likely be too complicated code-wise.

The time the training takes depends on RNG and how much the agents improve in missions. Roughly speaking, an agent actively going out on missions might get fully trained in 9-12 months. Usually at least in my games melee accuracy is the last stat to get trained (this stat does not get improvements as easily in missions). If they don't go out on missions at all, I doubt even that is enough time.

Note that the actual stat caps are higher than training caps. So, training in a "gym" is also not a complete replacement for actual experience.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 22, 2023, 09:22:09 am
When an agent improves one of his skills as a result of training, will there be a corresponding message about this?
It's strange that there is no sorting by agents involved in training when you select a crew for a mission, I don't want to interrupt the agent's training process.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 22, 2023, 09:26:41 am
When an agent improves one of his skills as a result of training, will there be a corresponding message about this?

No. When opening the agent screen, you can see the improvements (regardless of source) with slightly different coloring in the bar chart showing the stats.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 22, 2023, 09:45:41 am
No. When opening the agent screen, you can see the improvements (regardless of source) with slightly different coloring in the bar chart showing the stats.
It's a pity. It would be interesting to know the results of the training.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 23, 2023, 12:41:12 pm
If you right-click on the weapon icon in tactics, a small yellow square appears in the upper right corner of the icon. What does it mean?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 23, 2023, 12:49:34 pm
If you right-click on the weapon icon in tactics, a small yellow square appears in the upper right corner of the icon. What does it mean?

That the weapon is preferred for reaction shots. This is not completely reliable, because the range of weapons differs and the agent might end up firing a non-preferred weapon if the preferred one is not in range (yet).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 23, 2023, 01:04:29 pm
That the weapon is preferred for reaction shots. This is not completely reliable, because the range of weapons differs and the agent might end up firing a non-preferred weapon if the preferred one is not in range (yet).
This is apparently for the case when the weapon is in both hands, right? Because a reaction shots occurs in any case, if you do not reset the action points in advance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 23, 2023, 01:44:28 pm
This is apparently for the case when the weapon is in both hands, right? Because a reaction shots occurs in any case, if you do not reset the action points in advance.

Yes, it's for when you have for example a Colt and a Small Revolver and you want to react with the weapon with the higher cost in TUs (normally the less costly weapon is used).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 23, 2023, 02:02:43 pm
Thank you for your responses.
After a long break, I started playing this wonderful mod again. I noticed that at the beginning of the game there was more variety in missions, which is good. And already in March, the aliens landed the first small landing of Anthropods. It is interesting that their corpses are available for study, but the weapons are not even in the warehouse ... this was done on purpose, right?
There is very little opportunity to predict the expediency of going on a mission. The mission activity period often ends before the vehicle has time to reach the target
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 23, 2023, 02:41:52 pm
After a long break, I started playing this wonderful mod again. I noticed that at the beginning of the game there was more variety in missions, which is good.

Yeah, early game always gets the most attention. ;D

And already in March, the aliens landed the first small landing of Anthropods. It is interesting that their corpses are available for study, but the weapons are not even in the warehouse ... this was done on purpose, right?

Hmmm, they definitely should be in the warehouse, unless you blew them all up.

There is very little opportunity to predict the expediency of going on a mission. The mission activity period often ends before the vehicle has time to reach the target

It's stressful, yeah... But most missions aren't very punishing in this regard.

Early on, I suggest sending a car to another continent and just leave it there in case there's a mission nearby. Stationary cars and vans don't use fuel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 26, 2023, 02:08:38 pm
I bought two dogs and two outfits for them. But there is no separate equipment in the warehouse, only dogs. Is that how it should be?
How do I remove equipment from fighters who are listed as injured immediately after the mission?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2023, 04:02:39 pm
I bought two dogs and two outfits for them. But there is no separate equipment in the warehouse, only dogs. Is that how it should be?
How do I remove equipment from fighters who are listed as injured immediately after the mission?

I don't understand. You can't use the "armors" section for this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 26, 2023, 05:34:22 pm
I don't understand. You can't use the "armors" section for this?
Yes, that's how I remove armor. How to remove a weapon? This is about human agents.
Perhaps you mean that in this way you can choose equipment for dogs? But it doesn't work either...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2023, 05:52:39 pm
Yes, that's how I remove armor. How to remove a weapon?

Ah, okay, I get it now.

You can go to the Agents menu and press "I". I checked, and one of my wounded agents can be accessed, but another cannot...

But why would you want to remove the weapon in the first place?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 26, 2023, 06:21:20 pm
Thanks, I'll try.
And why should a wounded soldier keep a valuable barrel under the bed in the infirmary for two weeks? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Nerro on July 26, 2023, 09:27:26 pm
I'm 95% sure that wounded soldiers automatically put their inventory in the base inventory.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: grayboney on July 27, 2023, 11:08:24 am
In spite of writing you at the first time, I have played this mod for more than 100 - 200 hours and really enjoyed it. In the last time, I reached the furthest I could get compared to my previous attempts. I played until the end of 1999 and would like to share my some experiences and recommendations.

Many missions are based on your previous experience you had. When that's confornted at first time, it  can make you unprepared and brief are not enough for taking an action. For example in my Red Dawn HQ experience, I didn't know I need rocket launcher to destroy armored cars.

More tooltips would be very helpful to understand the game logic better. It can be added at geoscape randomly as a hint:
For example: "Beware approching melee attacks, some aliens can have suidial attacks when they perish." OR

Some creatures don't have bioextraction at all. For example asmodean cobras and their corpse is worthless but selling it. Bat and rat bioextraction can be disabled because I unintentionally bioextracted 6 live shadowbats; my intention was to make them X-bat and use them in the missions. Instead of bioextracting bats and rats, worthless corpses like cobras can be added to bioextraction.

Let's come to my most annoying experiences. Actually I have three of them.

FIRST ONE:
Before the invasion (december 98 I think) I had a base attack. And more strange point is not only getting attacked by aliens but also alien type. Alien type who they attack are not sectoids, snakemen or floaters. THEY WERE MUTONS. I am not sure it's normal that they came that early. I managed to beat them in a miraculous way thanks to my defensive base layout and awesome psi weapon thanotanutian manus.

SECOND ONE:
I planned to attack golden academy osiron base. And the same annoying reinforcement system we have already experienced in the cult manors triggered. But that was by far worse. Normally reinforcements come in the sides and back but this time 7-8 of them spawned suddenly at my green spawn points without giving any warning. While I was surrounding the bulding, those spawned soldiers shot from back and ruined my mission without giving any warning. In my opinion these reinforcements are not only overwhellming but also bullshit. Because it's not possiblle for x-com squad to be unnoticed until they reach my spawn point that close. It  should be really fixed; my suggestion either to make a reinforcement alert and make them 0 tu and be active next turn or make them full tu but be active for next turn (like first turn for enemies)

THIRD ONE:
I have dreamscape mission. I have read the briefing so I placed the first strongest unit to top list for going the mission. But game selected it randomly and put a x-rat into mission instead of my considering soldier. After mission is failed, my craft is gone as well. Briefing notices were not enough to be aware of that.

I summarized my highlight experiences below. I hope it can be worthy of your considerations. Also, I wıould like to thank you all team who contributed to create this outstanding mod. Even if they have some defect (it is inevitable to have them while the game complexity is huge), I am really  having fun to play it.  Last question: when ghost mission lines will be finished? (having haunted farm and haunted mission without any progress can be after having some advancement in the game)






Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on July 27, 2023, 11:49:22 am
Hello
First, thank you for this excellent mod, l’m enjoying my game on it a lot
But i have a misunderstanding about armors
I'm fighting the MIB for now, managed to capture a power suit guy and a shock trooper, i researched both power suit and shock trooper adaptation and got one of each in my base. But I'm far from being able to manufacture them
My question is: I can equip the power suit in mission, but not the shock armor, what did I miss ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 27, 2023, 12:30:47 pm
I'm 95% sure that wounded soldiers automatically put their inventory in the base inventory.

Yes, they won't prevent other soldiers from taking their stuff if they share it.

In spite of writing you at the first time, I have played this mod for more than 100 - 200 hours and really enjoyed it. In the last time, I reached the furthest I could get compared to my previous attempts. I played until the end of 1999 and would like to share my some experiences and recommendations.

I'm happy to hear that!

Many missions are based on your previous experience you had. When that's confornted at first time, it  can make you unprepared and brief are not enough for taking an action. For example in my Red Dawn HQ experience, I didn't know I need rocket launcher to destroy armored cars.

But you don't! There are many different ways to deal with armoured cars: rockets, sniper rifles, high caliber cannons/machine guns, explosives, incendiaries, probably even some melee weapons.
Contrast with my experience when playing Piratez, when I encountered the humanist tank for the first time. Nothing worked: not rockets, not lasers, not heavy melee which normally kills anything, etc. This tank requires specific anti-tank rockets which I didn't have at the time. I threw a tantrum and called bullshit, had an argument with Dioxine about balance... This led to adding a new, earlier mission with this tank to give you the opportunity to meet it on easier terms.
Killing the Armoured Car is a cakewalk by comparison and doesn't need any handholding. If this was a non-retreat mission, it wouild be different, but it's not, so you can just GTFO as usual.

More tooltips would be very helpful to understand the game logic better. It can be added at geoscape randomly as a hint:
For example: "Beware approching melee attacks, some aliens can have suidial attacks when they perish."

I'm not against such hints in general, but this one looks like something you're supposed to discuver by experience. Why on Earth would anyone tell you that? How would they know how aliens fight?

OR
Some creatures don't have bioextraction at all. For example asmodean cobras and their corpse is worthless but selling it. Bat and rat bioextraction can be disabled because I unintentionally bioextracted 6 live shadowbats; my intention was to make them X-bat and use them in the missions. Instead of bioextracting bats and rats, worthless corpses like cobras can be added to bioextraction.

...I don't understand, you clicked on the wrong manufacturing project or what?

Before the invasion (december 98 I think) I had a base attack. And more strange point is not only getting attacked by aliens but also alien type. Alien type who they attack are not sectoids, snakemen or floaters. THEY WERE MUTONS. I am not sure it's normal that they came that early. I managed to beat them in a miraculous way thanks to my defensive base layout and awesome psi weapon thanotanutian manus.

No, it's not normal. Either you managed to shoot down a Muton UFO (I don't really believe this, but hey, strange things happen) or you are using some submod which does such things.

I planned to attack golden academy osiron base. And the same annoying reinforcement system we have already experienced in the cult manors triggered. But that was by far worse. Normally reinforcements come in the sides and back but this time 7-8 of them spawned suddenly at my green spawn points without giving any warning. While I was surrounding the bulding, those spawned soldiers shot from back and ruined my mission without giving any warning. In my opinion these reinforcements are not only overwhellming but also bullshit. Because it's not possiblle for x-com squad to be unnoticed until they reach my spawn point that close. It  should be really fixed; my suggestion either to make a reinforcement alert and make them 0 tu and be active next turn or make them full tu but be active for next turn (like first turn for enemies)

The Tower is a special case, it's more dangerous and should be harder. If it's too hard, well, it happens all the time to me as well - run away.
Well, I could disable the wave which comes from your side, if it doesn't make much sense... But it all depends on where your units are. They could just as well be near the western border at the moment, and then you could say the wave from the west also makes no sense, since it would have been spotted.
But I need to point out that the minimum distance for reinforcements to appear on these missions is 10 tiles from the nearest X-Com unit. So this means that they can be cxontrolled by placing your units more strategically. I hope this is satisfactory. (Maybe should be in the field manual; I'll add an article.)

I have dreamscape mission. I have read the briefing so I placed the first strongest unit to top list for going the mission. But game selected it randomly and put a x-rat into mission instead of my considering soldier. After mission is failed, my craft is gone as well. Briefing notices were not enough to be aware of that.

Should always be your top unit. But why have you even sent more than 1 person? I don't understand.

I summarized my highlight experiences below. I hope it can be worthy of your considerations. Also, I wıould like to thank you all team who contributed to create this outstanding mod. Even if they have some defect (it is inevitable to have them while the game complexity is huge), I am really  having fun to play it.  Last question: when ghost mission lines will be finished? (having haunted farm and haunted mission without any progress can be after having some advancement in the game)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope I gave a satisfactory answer.

As for the ghost arc, this is a major project and will take a long time. Right now there is no logical point which would justify disabling such missions.

Hello
First, thank you for this excellent mod, l’m enjoying my game on it a lot

Hi! I'm an old X-Com fan too. :)

But i have a misunderstanding about armors
I'm fighting the MIB for now, managed to capture a power suit guy and a shock trooper, i researched both power suit and shock trooper adaptation and got one of each in my base. But I'm far from being able to manufacture them
My question is: I can equip the power suit in mission, but not the shock armor, what did I miss ?

The shock armour is only available to Kyberi, as it requires advanced cybernetic interfacing. No other type of agent can use them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on July 27, 2023, 12:49:09 pm
The shock armour is only available to Kyberi, as it requires advanced cybernetic interfacing. No other type of agent can use them.
I guess I'm far from this point in my game since I don't know what "kyberi" is
I'm gonna keep them in my dump base then, thanks for the answer
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: sirmik on July 27, 2023, 01:11:47 pm
Yes, they won't prevent other soldiers from taking their stuff if they share it.

No, it's not normal. Either you managed to shoot down a Muton UFO (I don't really believe this, but hey, strange things happen) or you are using some submod which does such things.


I have the same problem. Before the invasion (middle of 98), the "sentry ship" attack as I checked in the save code. Then in the first months of 99 another two - one base lost. Maybe it's a submod issue ( XCom Files Arsenal Additions)? I don't use any other than the recommended resound


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 27, 2023, 02:51:34 pm
Maybe it's a submod issue ( XCom Files Arsenal Additions)?

Most likely; I don't know exactly what it does, but I've heard of similar issues with it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on July 27, 2023, 03:31:49 pm
I guess i didn't have only one question  ;D
What's the meaning of this PSI icon when playing an hybrid agent (with 0 PSK) ?
(https://i.imgur.com/VLbfMSi.png)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Nerro on July 27, 2023, 05:41:44 pm
Hybrids have built-in psy attacks. This icon allows you to use those attacks by clicking it. (Like the dogs built-in mouvement sensor.)
But without psy skill unlocked, those will be extremely weak.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: krautbernd on July 27, 2023, 06:20:48 pm
Hybrids have built-in psy attacks. This icon allows you to use those attacks by clicking it.

This. Might I ask if you've actually tried clicking the icon before asking the question? Becasue I am kind of baffled by question like like this. Are people afraid they might break something by clicking on icons?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 27, 2023, 07:02:13 pm
If the agent has no psi skill, I have never managed to make this natural psi attack work on even the weakest enemy. So, appearances to the contrary, this icon can indeed be somewhat misleading. Don't think there's a way to remove the icon, though. Unless there's something in Y-scripts that allows you to modify built-in weapons that I'm not aware of.

Good news is that as soon as you unlock psi labs, those Hybrids will find their inner Force really fast.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 27, 2023, 07:02:45 pm
To be fair, at least until the alien hybrid has PSI skill, clicking on the top-right icon does nothing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 27, 2023, 07:04:53 pm
Eh, it does allow you to waste theagent's TU hoping it does something. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: grayboney on July 27, 2023, 07:41:46 pm
Yes, they won't prevent other soldiers from taking their stuff if they share it.

I'm not against such hints in general, but this one looks like something you're supposed to discuver by experience. Why on Earth would anyone tell you that? How would they know how aliens fight?

Yes but in the end, we learn it in the second try without surprise, so in my opinion some hints don't hurt. It is not about making game easier (I already play this game always ironman one mistake and you're dead), it is more about guiding player to understand the game dynamics better.

...I don't understand, you clicked on the wrong manufacturing project or what?

Yes, while compressing all creatures and corpses in batch into blood plasma, I also bioextracted my live x-com squad candidate shadowbats :(

No, it's not normal. Either you managed to shoot down a Muton UFO (I don't really believe this, but hey, strange things happen) or you are using some submod which does such things.

No, I don't use any submod. I only have sound pack which you provided to us. It is impossible to shoot down anything, because I hardly had one little bird as interceptor in that date.

The Tower is a special case, it's more dangerous and should be harder. If it's too hard, well, it happens all the time to me as well - run away.
Well, I could disable the wave which comes from your side, if it doesn't make much sense... But it all depends on where your units are. They could just as well be near the western border at the moment, and then you could say the wave from the west also makes no sense, since it would have been spotted.
But I need to point out that the minimum distance for reinforcements to appear on these missions is 10 tiles from the nearest X-Com unit. So this means that they can be cxontrolled by placing your units more strategically. I hope this is satisfactory. (Maybe should be in the field manual; I'll add an article.)

Maybe I need to make it clear that I am not against the reinforcement system, only the way it works. I also finished xcom2 with commander + ironman. Xcom2 has also reinforcement system but with more reasonable approach. Game warns the player the reinforcements is coming in the pointed position. Similar approach can make the game more realistic.

Should always be your top unit. But why have you even sent more than 1 person? I don't understand.

My mistake was having all 15 units. But I already put my intended character to the top but it didn't work, the game selected it randomly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 27, 2023, 08:09:21 pm
... in my opinion some hints don't hurt. ... it is more about guiding player to understand the game dynamics better.
While that's true - and Solarius is indeed not against it and has even provided a whole Field Manual's worth of hints - learning that some aliens explode (or have melee reactions, or whatever) looks very much like something that is done via trial and error. That's the theme of both OG X-Com and the Files - you're fighting an unknown enemy with unknown capabilities.

If you have other suggestions, I'm sure Solarius will listen.


... I also bioextracted my live x-com squad candidate shadowbats
I don't think there's a good way to avoid that via mod internals, so you have to manage this yourself. Put your Shadowbat recruits into a different base, maybe.

It is impossible to shoot down anything, because I hardly had one little bird as interceptor in that date.
Hmm, it's the second time someone complainins about early retaliations now. Curious.

Maybe I need to make it clear that I am not against the reinforcement system, only the way it works. ... Similar approach can make the game more realistic.
Well, as Solarius said, the reinforcements have to come from somewhere, and there's no good way to make sure that this somewhere isn't a death trap for players. Well, unless they spawn in some bunker/craft of their own, which makes the whole thing kinda exploitable.

And, IMO big neon arrows pointing out enemy reinforcements are very much gamey and the opposite of realistic.

But I already put my intended character to the top but it didn't work, the game selected it randomly.
This is strange. Do you perhaps have a save for this? Because as far as I can tell, it's indeed the top unit and not some random dog or rat who gets selected.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on July 28, 2023, 01:37:38 am
This. Might I ask if you've actually tried clicking the icon before asking the question? Becasue I am kind of baffled by question like like this. Are people afraid they might break something by clicking on icons?
Might I ask if you read what I wrote ? The hybrid agent has 0 PSK, clicking ont the icon does nothing

Good news is that as soon as you unlock psi labs, those Hybrids will find their inner Force really fast.
This is good new, thanks for the info
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Niewiem on July 28, 2023, 09:40:55 am

Yes, while compressing all creatures and corpses in batch into blood plasma, I also bioextracted my live x-com squad candidate shadowbats :(


I think best way to avoid it is to hide manufacture project that you are not planing to use :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Nerro on July 28, 2023, 09:57:24 am
Might I ask if you read what I wrote ? The hybrid agent has 0 PSK, clicking ont the icon does nothing
You can actually click it with 0 PSK.
I think you need to unlock the skulljack for that. This may be a bug.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 28, 2023, 10:24:53 am
I'm 95% sure that wounded soldiers automatically put their inventory in the base inventory.
I have no such confidence, because the armor of the wounded soldiers remains with them, and I have to take it off separately.
In general, it is surprising that it is possible to remove all armor or all equipment from a ship with one key, but there is no such key to remove all from all agents on this ship ... or I just don’t know.
I figured out the equipment for dogs, thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2023, 11:19:13 am
If the agent has no psi skill, I have never managed to make this natural psi attack work on even the weakest enemy. So, appearances to the contrary, this icon can indeed be somewhat misleading. Don't think there's a way to remove the icon, though. Unless there's something in Y-scripts that allows you to modify built-in weapons that I'm not aware of.

Good news is that as soon as you unlock psi labs, those Hybrids will find their inner Force really fast.

Good point. I have just added an article on the Hybrid psi attack to clarify this.

Yes, while compressing all creatures and corpses in batch into blood plasma, I also bioextracted my live x-com squad candidate shadowbats :(

Happens to everyone... But if the player doesn't check where they click, there's nothing I can do.

No, I don't use any submod. I only have sound pack which you provided to us. It is impossible to shoot down anything, because I hardly had one little bird as interceptor in that date.

Hmm... aggressive retaliation option? I'm running out of ideas here.

My mistake was having all 15 units. But I already put my intended character to the top but it didn't work, the game selected it randomly.

While that's true - and Solarius is indeed not against it and has even provided a whole Field Manual's worth of hints - learning that some aliens explode (or have melee reactions, or whatever) looks very much like something that is done via trial and error. That's the theme of both OG X-Com and the Files - you're fighting an unknown enemy with unknown capabilities.

Yes, exactly. The game is named "X-Com: Enemy Unknown" for a reason. Removing this element would undermine the game's character and take away a major fun point.

If you have other suggestions, I'm sure Solarius will listen.

Yes I am. :)

I have no such confidence, because the armor of the wounded soldiers remains with them, and I have to take it off separately.

Well I do have such confidence. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: sirmik on July 28, 2023, 11:48:44 am


Hmm... aggressive retaliation option? I'm running out of ideas here.


same problem, maybe this will help?


  - "month: 22 script: afterYearResearch id: 380 type: STR_ALIEN_RESEARCH_EARLY race: STR_SECTOID region: STR_PACIFIC targetZone: -1 targetArea: -1"
  - "month: 22 script: recurringRetaliation id: 381 type: STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION race: STR_MUTON region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: -1 targetArea: -1"


  - "gameTime: 1998-10-05 15:00:00 ufoId: 44 ufoType: STR_SMALL_SCOUT race: STR_MUTON region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA trajectory: P8 missionId: 381 missionType: STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION"
  - "gameTime: 1998-10-05 23:30:00 siteId: 10 siteType: STR_DEAD_CATTLE race: STR_FARMER region: STR_SOUTH_EAST_ASIA deployment: STR_DEAD_CATTLE missionId: 394 missionType: STR_DEAD_CATTLE"
  - "gameTime: 1998-10-07 13:30:00 ufoId: 45 ufoType: STR_MEDIUM_GROUND_CONVOY race: STR_ZSRR region: STR_SIBERIA trajectory: P_CHWC1_Z3 missionId: 379 missionType: STR_CULT_INFILTRATION_ZSRR"
  - "gameTime: 1998-10-07 21:30:00 ufoId: 46 ufoType: STR_SENTRY_SHIP race: STR_MUTON region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA trajectory: __RETALIATION_ASSAULT_RUN missionId: 381 missionType: STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION"



and before that, only two UFOs with the Secdoids crew on it...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 28, 2023, 11:48:59 am
Well I do have such confidence. :)
"I want to believe!"  :)
Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2023, 01:35:09 pm
same problem, maybe this will help?

(...)
  - "month: 22 script: recurringRetaliation id: 381 type: STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION race: STR_MUTON region: STR_NORTH_AFRICA targetZone: -1 targetArea: -1"
(...)

Yes, but this may happen in month 22 at the earliest (so October 1998).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 28, 2023, 02:35:26 pm
Maybe it's worth making retalRaces more fine-grained and removing the more hardcore specimens from the very early stages of the invasion? So no Mutons in '98, but Sectoids and Floaters and Chasers are OK?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2023, 02:37:57 pm
Maybe it's worth making retalRaces more fine-grained and removing the more hardcore specimens from the very early stages of the invasion? So no Mutons in '98, but Sectoids and Floaters and Chasers are OK?

The thing is, that's how it should be now. Apparently there's some kind of logic that escapes me. If no UFOs were shot down, then I am at a loss.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 28, 2023, 02:42:23 pm
Er, retalRaces only comes in two varieties, and the only difference between the two is the addition of STR_ORDER_OF_ELIMINATION after month 46. Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2023, 03:42:57 pm
Er, retalRaces only comes in two varieties, and the only difference between the two is the addition of STR_ORDER_OF_ELIMINATION after month 46. Or am I misunderstanding something here?

It's more complex than that, as retals can come both from mission scripts (where the race is taken into account) and from shooting down UFOs (where the race is the same as the one you shot down). Both versions have a list of possible retaliation variants, although for the latter it was added after 3.0.3.

I don't know what has happened here. A save might help.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 28, 2023, 04:01:47 pm
Well, shooting down UFOs is it's own thing, and doesn't need to be touched IMO.

I'm speaking about script-based retaliation. Doesn't that take the race from the mission, which is 'RetalRaces', and which does not have much difference between early and late game? All the new retaliation variants share the same list, and that one has Mutons on it from October '98.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2023, 04:13:51 pm
I'm speaking about script-based retaliation. Doesn't that take the race from the mission, which is 'RetalRaces', and which does not have much difference between early and late game? All the new retaliation variants share the same list, and that one has Mutons on it from October '98.

Yes, all scripted missions respect their races entry. That's why it exists. :)
So, Mutons are possible from 10.1998 onwards. These will be small retaliations (Sentry or Saboteur), with the vanilla retaliation (in a Battleship) available from month 30 (small chance initially).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 28, 2023, 04:23:38 pm
Well, what I was proposing is to show some (more) mercy and remove even small Muton-crewed (or other big bad aliens) from the very early retaliations. Kinda like the mission escalation itself, but also for the races.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 28, 2023, 04:41:05 pm
Well, what I was proposing is to show some (more) mercy and remove even small Muton-crewed (or other big bad aliens) from the very early retaliations. Kinda like the mission escalation itself, but also for the races.

But I can't remove them any further... Or maybe I don't understand your point. Can you be more specific?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 28, 2023, 04:49:18 pm
Script-based retaliations:

October 1999: Gazers!, Waspites, Sectoids, Snakemen (and a chance of Chryssalids on non-Sentry ships!), Mutons, Cerebreals, Floaters, Chasers.

December 2001: Same, plus a chance of some Ethereals.

I propose making a few more tiers (like the 'add Ethereals' one) there and allowing only something like Sectoids, Floaters and Chasers to come after X-Com really early.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 28, 2023, 05:25:18 pm
It should be trivial to change this, just modify alienMissions file at STR_ALIEN_RETALIATION which defines "RetalRaces". The definition already has an entry for early-game scripted retaliation (starting from month 0) and late-game retaliation (starting from month 46), but currently the content appears to be identical. Adding more variance to this, as the months pass by, could be a good thing.

For example, the following definion (from STR_ALIEN_HARVEST) could give ideas of how it could be changed.

      0:
          STR_SECTOID: 30
          STR_FLOATER: 30
          STR_CHASER: 30
      22:
          STR_SECTOID: 20
          STR_FLOATER: 30
          STR_CHASER: 30
          STR_SNAKEMAN: 10
          STR_SNAKEMAN_SALAMANDRON: 10
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: krautbernd on July 28, 2023, 05:50:52 pm
Question:

Are haunted house/farm missions slated to continue forever or do you plan to tie them to some specific research/mission trigger so the player can chose to permanentely disable them via a "final solution", akin to the monster missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 29, 2023, 10:20:24 am
OK, added a bit more tiers to the retaliation races. I hope this will make things a bit more forgiving.

Are haunted house/farm missions slated to continue forever or do you plan to tie them to some specific research/mission trigger so the player can chose to permanentely disable them via a "final solution", akin to the monster missions?

They will end, yes. But for now there is no proper point of removal.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Anvarito on July 29, 2023, 10:50:12 am
Hi, why does a Dragonfly have light around it? isn't that a big hindrance in night missions? is it possible that you will remove this in the future?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 29, 2023, 11:03:25 am
The Dragonfly secretly wishes to be a Firefly. :D

Yes, it's a hindrance. And AFAIR it was designed as such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 29, 2023, 11:26:58 am
Lights are there to emphasise its civilian role, and various abstract issues related to that. It's a crude method, but hey, as long as it works.

On the other hand, Dragonfly is allowed on some missions where military craft aren't.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 29, 2023, 11:42:57 am
On Dimension X outpost defense missions the mission description includes a warning "If we don't, the Council will be severely disappointed." and briefing text "If we don't protect the facilities, the base will have to be rebuilt, which will reflect badly on our reputation."

It makes sense that there should be a penalty for aborting an outpost defense mission.

However, as far as I can see, the abort penalty is 50 points and that's it. With this kind of description, I suppose the abort penalty should be at least 500 points - or the text about severe disappointment or some such should be removed.

The mission can be on the tougher side, depending on the spawns and which directions the enemies are facing at start. So the abort penalty should not be extremely high.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Anvarito on July 29, 2023, 06:19:02 pm
Lights are there to emphasise its civilian role, and various abstract issues related to that. It's a crude method, but hey, as long as it works.

On the other hand, Dragonfly is allowed on some missions where military craft aren't.

Thanks for the explanation) this explains a lot. I also have a question - there is an area under the dragonfly right along its contour where it is dark, will this area be considered completely darkened?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: krautbernd on July 29, 2023, 08:35:41 pm
Я случайно процитировал не тот пост!! пожалуйста, простите меня, мой вопрос касался поста именно выше этого

You can edit your posts, no need to create a new one just for a correction  ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 30, 2023, 07:20:16 am
Periodically, I get different messages about monster activity in different countries, as a result of which I get negative points. Can I somehow change this with my actions? Can we expect messages that will have a positive effect?
And then there are various funny messages from the staff, like problems with sewage. Is it just humor, or do they influence something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 30, 2023, 09:31:28 am
No, most negative score events are there for flavour and perhaps a little challenge, you cannot directly influence the results. Well, a lot of them do have trigger conditions, like research or financials, so your acctions do have some impact. And, yes, there are also a bunch of positive events, like getting Land Surveys, some gadgets or corpses in the mail. Or a mystery 500k deposit, or some score for hitting on a Councilwoman.

The staff messages are there for atmosphere, or occasionally for Solarius to lament about something (like people not RTFM-ing).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on July 30, 2023, 11:11:43 am
I understand, thanks. I will wait for positive messages)
What is RTFM?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 30, 2023, 11:59:03 am
RTFM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 31, 2023, 08:46:24 am
Syndicate Monster Lab is an easy mission which gives Monsters Inc. files, the selling of which can give you about 1M each (which in SH gives you 3-4M).

This is probably the easiest and best mission at this stage to repeat many times for the money. Just don't research the monsters files, and there's 70 % chance of a repeat (otherwise it's only 10 %). The missions continue even after the syndicate has been defeated (possibly intentional, so that if you kill off the syndicate quickly, you can still get to the monsters final solution and stop the missions).

I wonder if the sell-off price of the Monsters files should be decreased to decrease the incentive for churning money and/or add a max-repeat in the ruleset.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: unarmed drifter on July 31, 2023, 10:57:17 am
i guess the mod still needs a few round of balancing, like manufacturing times, sell prices and so on.
Personally i've increased the sell price for the Mongorn Anzug tenfold, just out of immersion/roleplay considerations
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on July 31, 2023, 03:07:12 pm
I noticed a couple surprises in this latest version. Black lotus avatar lady was present on a cult forward mission.
I had to do the Black lotus HQ mission twice for some reason and before that the root of all evil.
So i saw this lady 4 times in a span of about 30 days.
Good times.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on July 31, 2023, 03:10:41 pm
To be honest, those Cult forward missions are some of my favorites. Your guys have built up some stats but are still somewhat inexperienced for meyhem like this.
It can be extremely difficult and you're bound to lose a couple lives if not careful.

The guy on the roof (in the Exalt ones) with the grenade launcher is always the worst.  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 31, 2023, 04:48:45 pm
Speaking of balancing, I think The Sound of Graves (graveyard) investigation is on the more difficult side (unless you "cheat" with saves). You can only have bulletproof coat and concealable items, and are limited to up to 8 agents. With SH there are 4-7 poltergeists which can hurt you badly with these armors (3-6 with Veteran etc.). And given that they have decent range and good camo, it's up to luck to spot them and survive the mission without many casualties.

In 3.0 there are no rewards. With 3.1 snapshot you do, eventually, get the a reward in Wilheard's voyage - 25 MIB crates. YMMV whether all of these are worth it.

IMO the biggest benefit of the ghost arc is getting PSI weapons which bypass armors and stun the enemy, so they are very useful for catching alive tougher MIBs, Gillman Hero, etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: SamWiseTheMoose on July 31, 2023, 05:44:31 pm
If I return the military sonic weapon information, does that lock me out of getting sonic weapons? or can I return it, and still research the deep one sonic weapons to make my own?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 31, 2023, 06:24:32 pm
You can still research and use TFTD sonic weapons, but you will be locked out of human sonics.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: SamWiseTheMoose on July 31, 2023, 06:32:37 pm
are the human sonics any good, or should I take the 5 million and run, cuss I need some more scientists and smart rifles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 31, 2023, 07:15:56 pm
Well, I'm not sure they're universally good, but once you get the focused ammo, they are certainly a new and interesting tool for your toolbox. They suffer from dealing concussive damage, but have interesting dual fire modes.

But they won't make or break your campaign, so if you feel the 5M will do you a lot of good, it's certainly a viable choice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: krautbernd on July 31, 2023, 07:30:16 pm
Speaking of balancing, I think The Sound of Graves (graveyard) investigation is on the more difficult side (unless you "cheat" with saves). You can only have bulletproof coat and concealable items, and are limited to up to 8 agents. With SH there are 4-7 poltergeists which can hurt you badly with these armors (3-6 with Veteran etc.). And given that they have decent range and good camo, it's up to luck to spot them and survive the mission without many casualties.

>difficult
>Superhuman

I wish people would stop playing on the hardest difficulty and then complain about difficult missions. I find the mission adequately balanced on veteran. I did however enounter a bug where one of the ghosts was stuck in terrain and only visible in debug mode.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on July 31, 2023, 08:06:36 pm
I think psavola meant it's relatively difficult, that is, compared to other SH missions. He also pointed out why he thinks so, unlike the rebuttal.

I have certainly seen streamers struggle with this mission somewhat (they savescum a lot in general, so I imagine they are not particularly representative).

Granted, this problem exists for all undercover missions, at least at first.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on July 31, 2023, 09:52:38 pm
Granted, this problem exists for all undercover missions, at least at first.

I have found essentially all undercover missions relatively easy with SH if you make best use of cover of buildings, darkness, flares, smoke grenades and/or such equipment. Some spawn locations may be tricky, however and in some cases you may want to abort if you want to play it safe. Of course, until you have dogs and motion scanners the risks are greater (but at that point, you have probably not been all that addicted to your superagents either).

None of this helps or applies to the graveyard, where there is essentially zero cover and none of the other techniques work.

Obviously, if you try to play the undercover missions the same way as everything else (especially in the beginning), you'll be wrecked.

I've actually liked various special missions a lot as they force you to adapt to different playstyles and play in a careful fashion.

FWIW, I didn't write the original post as a complaint, but rather just as something to consider. Personally, I delayed this specific mission at least 6 months until I went for it (for example, waited to obtain some laser pistols and SMGs). It's manageable, at least with some luck, but much more difficult than many other missions. Not sure if that has been intentional.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 01, 2023, 06:15:30 am
Well, darkness, smokes, flares, dogs and motion scanners are all available for the graveyard, too.

Of course, these ghosts do have both night and psi vision, not to mention the light effects. Smoke ought to still work, though, unless you get too close. And there can be a lot of ghosts close by.

The ghosts only have melee weapons and a mostly non-lethal blast, and the poltergeists also tend to do more stunning than killing (and they run out of ammo fast). Compared to an AK vs a leather coat, these seem generally less deadly.

Granted, I haven't actually played any of this myself, and only watched some others. Who seemed to have generally less trouble with that mission than with e.g. MiB craft, or early UFO assaults. Or even the fortified ghost house. They did have some laser pistols, though, even if tasers and later ghost cult weapons did a lot of work as well. So take this with a giant pile of salt.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 01, 2023, 10:18:00 am
It makes sense that there should be a penalty for aborting an outpost defense mission.

However, as far as I can see, the abort penalty is 50 points and that's it. With this kind of description, I suppose the abort penalty should be at least 500 points - or the text about severe disappointment or some such should be removed.

You're right, this is almost a bug. Fixed!

I also have a question - there is an area under the dragonfly right along its contour where it is dark, will this area be considered completely darkened?

Depends if you're using the advanced OXCE lighting system or not. :) Default is on, so you should be unseen in the shadow.

Periodically, I get different messages about monster activity in different countries, as a result of which I get negative points. Can I somehow change this with my actions?

Only by resolving the monster arc.

Can we expect messages that will have a positive effect?

There is at least one! :)

And then there are various funny messages from the staff, like problems with sewage. Is it just humor, or do they influence something?

Mostly humour, and 10 points. But I recall one with an extra effect.

Syndicate Monster Lab is an easy mission which gives Monsters Inc. files, the selling of which can give you about 1M each (which in SH gives you 3-4M).

This is probably the easiest and best mission at this stage to repeat many times for the money. (...)

Another good catch. Fixed.

i guess the mod still needs a few round of balancing, like manufacturing times, sell prices and so on.

Sell prices yes, as evidenced above. But manufacturing prices, definitely not - they are meticulously calculated and will only change if some of the components' price changes.

The guy on the roof (in the Exalt ones) with the grenade launcher is always the worst.  :D

You said it brother. :D
Doesn't even have to be on the roof!

IMO the biggest benefit of the ghost arc is getting PSI weapons which bypass armors and stun the enemy, so they are very useful for catching alive tougher MIBs, Gillman Hero, etc.

Well, it's still very WIP... Eventually it will grant you a new agent type and probably other useful stuff.

I did however enounter a bug where one of the ghosts was stuck in terrain and only visible in debug mode.

I believe this has been fixed before 3.0, but if there's such a bug, please report it with a save.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 01, 2023, 12:10:18 pm
You're right, this is almost a bug. Fixed!

(Re: Dimension X outpost defense)

Umm, you just increased despawn penalty. Shouldn't abort penalty also be increased? The result - the outpost gets destroyed - is still the same.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on August 01, 2023, 08:15:50 pm
All right, the date is 2000-05-28. At least half a year passed since I researched the last available topic in ufopedia. I have sacked around 7 Shogg villages: 1 antman, 6 spiders. No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders. In order to save last remnants of my sanity, I decided to stop here. I somehow managed to get to this point without reloading or save file modification, no need to start now. I have finished this mod earlier, so I approximately know what would await me in the future besides unending necessity to keep monthly score above 0. But I still want to leave a small review about recent changes.

Overall I like the new Ghost arc. It makes Cyberweb's weapons at least slightly useful. It was a while since I realized that shiny ghosts are absolutely harmless. It was a while since I realized that non-shiny ghost are absolutely harmless when you are close enough. (I really wonder how that behavior was achieved.) After that I realized that ghost are perfect punch bags, invaluable for melee training. It was told many times, but I will repeat: "ghost weapons" are incredibly useful to capture alive heavy armored units.

Advanced Sick Bay is very good. It appears in the game exactly when it is really needed.

I don't like new kyberi implants. They eat agent's sanity and provide negligible bonuses. While playing you probably will not notice the difference between normal kyberos and kyberos with all implants.

Spartans are incredibly overpowered. A spartan agent resembles fully trained Uber from XPiratez: 120 TU, 150 Melee. UFO layouts simply are not designed for such power. One spartan can easily stun all aliens inside UFO by himself with his big electric stick. There is no need to choose other transformations (except olympianism, of course) if an agent have sufficient PSI (and if not, then such agent is useless in late game).

Overall game became easier.

Few problems not related to recent changes.

Currently there is almost no point to strike down UFOs at all. With speedy transport (~1000 km/h) and global radar coverage it is much more convenient to assault landed UFOs. You get all Elerium, no retaliations. In XPiratez you have to invest in interceptors, because some UFOs will not land and you need their loot in order to progress. In X-Com Files intercepting UFOs is undesirable, maybe with few exception, like striking down Terror Ships.

Some weapons are still effectively useless. Mass drivers are weaker then gausses, but gausses comes way earlier. If you are lucky you can research black lotus plasma guns relatively early, but without at least 50 PSI skills, those are useless. And when you get this psi skill, black lotus plasma guns become obsolete. Small Launcher supposed to be good at capturing live aliens, but it is not.

Phew... I need a break from "The X-Com Files". Probably a long one...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 01, 2023, 10:46:02 pm
In order to save last remnants of my sanity...
Nah, you've obviously installed one implant too many. :P

No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders.
Hmm, how are you supposed to get a MiB Commander? Their 'normal' spawns, Strike Ships and Outposts, are very low-probability...

It was a while since I realized that shiny ghosts are absolutely harmless. It was a while since I realized that non-shiny ghost are absolutely harmless when you are close enough.
Didn't psavola just pronounce them kinda difficult, at least under certain conditions?

Spartans are incredibly overpowered.
Yeah, those were kinda looking like that from the start.

Mass drivers are weaker then gausses, but gausses comes way earlier.
Gauss ammo production requires mass drivers, though. How are you keeping your guns fed?

Small Launcher supposed to be good at capturing live aliens, but it is not.
What's your beef with them? I can one-shot Gazers, that seems pretty good for me.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on August 02, 2023, 01:12:25 am
Hi. I'm back again because i realized I'm stuck and i can't understand why
I'm unable to research alien electronics...
(https://i.imgur.com/ezWkahr.png)
because i don't have this "alien leaders researched" thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/f6x4Wuf.png)
But i already researched many of them. What did I miss ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 02, 2023, 01:31:56 am
You need to find "Alien Electronics" and research it. It has an entry with a list of locations where you can find it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 02, 2023, 01:35:20 am
Cult Manor spam. ELEVEN or more currently active. They are impossible to assail because of the 10 round = elite soldier SNAFU. This seems ridiculously overpowered. Seems like the manor spam should be reduced, and/or the 10-round limit removed. How in the hell am I supposed to kill 60 enemies in a cluttered map in 10 rounds? The elites spawn all over the map including on top of my position. Manor missions are IMPOSSIBLE. There are WAY too many. Can we nerf these please?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on August 02, 2023, 01:38:03 am
You need to find "Alien Electronics" and research it. It has an entry with a list of locations where you can find it.
I have plenty of alien electronics in my bases.
(https://i.imgur.com/zwbZN2Z.png)
But i can't research them, that's why I posted. It seems i need to unlock this "alien leader researched" first, but i can't either
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 02, 2023, 01:56:44 am
Yeah I looked through the tree and don't see the problem
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 02, 2023, 06:39:47 am
Didn't psavola just pronounce them kinda difficult, at least under certain conditions?

To be precise, the specific graveyard mission can be difficult, because you are restricted to bulletproof coats and have several other restrictions.

In general, these are easy-ish and provide an excellent source of training (including melee). I'd however suggest going after Haunted Farms first (far fewer enemies) and skipping Haunted Houses. Once you have Heavy Tactical Suits at least on a few guys who do scouting and spotting poltergeists, they become significantly easier. There are essentially two tactics to deal with poltergeists. Either you spot them and then throw explosives at them, or you spot them and rush to do close combat (their melee attack is puny). It's their attack from afar and from the cover of camo that can be painful.

Cult Manor spam. ELEVEN or more currently active. They are impossible to assail because of the 10 round = elite soldier SNAFU. This seems ridiculously overpowered. Seems like the manor spam should be reduced, and/or the 10-round limit removed. How in the hell am I supposed to kill 60 enemies in a cluttered map in 10 rounds? The elites spawn all over the map including on top of my position. Manor missions are IMPOSSIBLE. There are WAY too many. Can we nerf these please?

There are no reinforcements at all if you deal with the manor while it is in its first stage (road interception by cars). In the second stage, the reinforcements may spawn starting at turn 5 (10 % chance) and in the phase 3 it's possible at turn 3. So it's not a fixed thing at turn 10. I suggest you should be in the cover of smoke or buildings then. Reinfocements do no not spawn less than 10 squares from your troops.

I also note that in the greatest manors reinforcements always spawn in NORTH blocks. In the middle manors EAST, WEST and NORTH blocks. I wonder if this is intentional. Even if these are meant to be different, I'd have expected to see EAST, SOUTH and NORTH, not WEST (because that's where's the landing area).

Manors are relatively easy if you have the right tactics. Use a lot of smoke, use dogs and scout drones for scouting the enemies, and throw grenades, dynamites and hi-explosives out. Do NOT shoot at anyone unless you are sure they are not defined as a spotter (essentially maids, black lotus followers, warriors and assassins and gillmen are fair game, the rest are NOT). This way the spotter/sniper mechanics don't get triggered and all the snipers on the map don't shoot at you, throw grenades at you or use those nasty napalm grenade launchers at you (unless they have seen you, which they won't if you are well covered by dozens of squares of smoke).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 02, 2023, 08:38:44 am
My ground game is fine even in unfavorable conditions (surrounded with no cover) until the reinforcements arrive. The difficulty until then is in the sheer volume, which I am fine with. The reinforcements just seem like an extra FU in a map that's already difficult as is. And it doesn't matter if they spawn 10+ squares away when they get a free turn. You know, with firearms. Also, they spawned in all 4 corners of the map, specifically surrounding my troops. And if the turn they spawn on isn't predictable, how am I supposed to know when to pop smoke? This are rhetorical questions; the answer is you don't; you either keep all your troops crammed in smoke the whole fight (how many s'nades do you expect me to carry?) thus inviting frags every single round or you just don't use smoke and die. This is another case where it's made out to be easier than it actually is because you may be operating with better tech, more troops, etc. I am running 10 agents with Galils and Liquidators. (Why would I use up a seat for a drone or a dog, honestly? I want actual firepower. Humans can carry guns, bombs, medical, and motion sensors. I'll pay for the agents.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 02, 2023, 09:02:06 am
i can't understand why I'm unable to research alien electronics...
The only insight I can offer is that Alien Origins are 'required'. Perhaps you researched your leaders before you got Alien Origins, so you didn't unlock 'leader is researched' because you were forbidden to do so before, leader or no leader.



spotting poltergeists
For the graveyard mission, don't the 'shiny' ghosts do a lot of the spotting for you? Granted, it kinda works both ways.

I also note that in the greatest manors reinforcements always spawn in NORTH blocks. I wonder if this is intentional. Even if these are meant to be different, I'd have expected to see EAST, SOUTH and NORTH, not WEST (because that's where's the landing area).
Um.
Code: [Select]
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreatestManorReinforcements
      - type: northwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH]
      - type: southwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH, WEST, EAST]
      - type: eastwave
        spawnBlocks: [EAST]
      - type: westwave
        spawnBlocks: [WEST]

And I was under the impression the left map edge was 'south'.


This way the spotter/sniper mechanics don't get triggered...
This "grenades don't count" interaction with snipers feels sillier every time it's mentioned... :(



Also, they spawned in all 4 corners of the map, specifically surrounding my troops.
That sounds like you getting super unlucky, or perhaps this happening over several turns. While a single reinforcement wave can cover two corners (of 'their' side), it shouldn't be all over the perimeter.

And if the turn they spawn on isn't predictable, how am I supposed to know when to pop smoke?
... how many s'nades do you expect me to carry?
All of the time and all of them. ;D Alternatively, try using the night as a substitute.

inviting frags every single round
Keep your spotters away from the main concentration of troops. What the enemy hasn't seen, they can't target (unless you use Brutal AI).

This is another case where it's made out to be easier than it actually is because you may be operating with better tech, more troops, etc. I am running 10 agents with Galils and Liquidators.
I have seen moderately clueless streamers do quite well against the worst manors with essentially just Liquidator armour and Smartrifles. Vanilla AI is just that bad.

(Why would I use up a seat for a drone or a dog, honestly? I want actual firepower.
Drones are kinda immortal, repairable, see through smoke and night (somewhat), provide instant smoke themselves and are smaller and thus a bit harder to hit. They make for good spotters, not so good artillery.

Dogs are fast and their bite is surprisingly potent, they take good advantage of the CQB mechanic, and have built-in motion sensors. They also bark and thus provide disabling overwatch. Sometimes a crew of dogs can even outperform a squad of humans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 02, 2023, 09:03:20 am
My ground game is fine even in unfavorable conditions (surrounded with no cover) until the reinforcements arrive. The difficulty until then is in the sheer volume, which I am fine with. The reinforcements just seem like an extra FU in a map that's already difficult as is. And it doesn't matter if they spawn 10+ squares away when they get a free turn. You know, with firearms. Also, they spawned in all 4 corners of the map, specifically surrounding my troops. And if the turn they spawn on isn't predictable, how am I supposed to know when to pop smoke? This are rhetorical questions; the answer is you don't; you either keep all your troops crammed in smoke the whole fight (how many s'nades do you expect me to carry?) thus inviting frags every single round or you just don't use smoke and die. This is another case where it's made out to be easier than it actually is because you may be operating with better tech, more troops, etc. I am running 10 agents with Galils and Liquidators. (Why would I use up a seat for a drone or a dog, honestly? I want actual firepower. Humans can carry guns, bombs, medical, and motion sensors. I'll pay for the agents.)

I can only tell you what has worked rather well for me. If you want to play your own style, that's your choice. In my current SH Ironman game, I've already dealt with 10 manors without problems. (They keep popping up, because for some reason I haven't gotten Dagon and Exalt forward base missions in 12+ months.)

You don't go to manors with 10 people. You'll need Osprey (16 seats) or Kitsune (15 seats). Then you have enough room for ~2 scout drones and ~1-2 dogs. The benefit of scout drones is that they can see through smoke, so if you use the smoking tactic, they are very useful. Dogs, when trained a bit, have good TUs and sniffing is quick. So they can each turn run about 10 squares away, sniff to spot the enemies, and come back to cover.

You'll pop smoke in turn 1. You'll need to drop or throw at least 10 smokes to create a sufficient perimeter (which also slows down enemy units advancing on you). The smoke starts to clear in 7-8 turns so you'll likely need to renew it then. So 20-30 preprimed smoke grenades should be enough (I usually give each agent either 2 or 3).

You'll stay in the smoke for at least 10 turns, possibly more. When you have killed most of them using grenades, dynamites and hi-ex (pre-prime at least some of them), and dozens of enemies start panicking, you may consider letting the smoke go off and switch to sniping the enemies instead.

I think you're behind the tech curve if you use Galils. You'll want BO sniper rifles or auto-sniper rifles. With maximised accuracy (90-100), these sniper rifles are accurate enough to reliably hit the enemies even through the smoke when they personally don't see the enemy units. This is especially useful against Black Lotus (because you can shoot the followers, warriors and assassins).

At some point, you may need to go out to search for the last remaining units, especially the ones that cannot surrender. Most of the times the battle is over in 10-15 turns.

Reinforcements are no problem if you are still in the smoke when they come. You'll just throw explosives at them if you want to be sure.

The most unfortunate thing is if almost all enemies are panicking and you switch to sweep mode to clear the last few of them, and the reinforcement arrive then. You'll have to be prepared for that.

This is an essentially guaranteed recipe for dealing with manors.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 02, 2023, 09:15:19 am
For the graveyard mission, don't the 'shiny' ghosts do a lot of the spotting for you? Granted, it kinda works both ways.

They provide light (very good for spotting the aether cultists in other missions), but not anti-camo. Poltergeists have 8 camo. That is the challenge you need to deal with somehow. In the early stages, you may use scout drones, but they usually get wrecked by their attacks.

Quote
Code: [Select]
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreatestManorReinforcements
      - type: northwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH]
      - type: southwave
        spawnBlocks: [NORTH, WEST, EAST]
      - type: eastwave
        spawnBlocks: [EAST]
      - type: westwave
        spawnBlocks: [WEST]

Sorry, you're correct. I relied on https://Xcf.trigramreactor.net, but it seems to be buggy by showing only the servants and northwave for the greatest manors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on August 02, 2023, 09:18:37 am
The only insight I can offer is that Alien Origins are 'required'. Perhaps you researched your leaders before you got Alien Origins, so you didn't unlock 'leader is researched' because you were forbidden to do so before, leader or no leader.
Thank you for the insight, i just checked, i have researched "alien origins" a while ago, and i'm pretty sure i researched other leaders since [edit]  < -- WROOOONG (see below) (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg156797.html#msg156797)[/edit]
(https://i.imgur.com/f6x4Wuf.png)
I think i have a bug with the "alien leaders researched" like i had one with the human ghost (i did all the researches when i entered the ghost phase, was able to extract ectoplasm from all types of ghosts, except the human ones, i had to edit my save to unlock it)
I'm gonna research another leader just to be sure,
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 02, 2023, 09:31:30 am
For whatever it is worth, I currently have a somewhat similar problem. I've researched Technomads for all they are worth, except they could still tell me about Cyberweb Battery. I do have a Technomad in the prison, but it does not show up for research so that I could get that final topic.

I'm not sure if this is a more general issue or caused by me using various versions of the mod (updating from github ~weekly) and that way having gotten stuck somehow. I suspect the latter. As this has no real impact on the game, I have at least not yet bothered to investigate further. I attach a save (the technomad is in the US base) if someone is interested in looking into this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: oldxcomfan on August 02, 2023, 09:37:31 am
Dude, you're a boss. I just fast forwarded my game to check your hypothesis, and you were right, i unlocked it all just by researching another leader.
I think anyway electronics should've been unlocked as soon as I researched "alien origins" , since the other prerequisites were met
I love this game, but the tech tree is really a pain  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 02, 2023, 09:45:27 am
Poltergeists have 8 camo.
Oh, yeah, and it's absolute camo, too. Shows that I haven't fought them myself. :-[

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 02, 2023, 09:45:44 am
You don't go to manors with 10 people. You'll need Osprey (16 seats)

I think my biggest issue with the Osprey was range. I've been running almost every mission with the Skyraider. I run 2 fire teams of 5 each with 3 infantry, 1 medic and 1 heavy in each fire team. It works great even for large numbers as long as there aren't 10 or so in the open. I could have done the manor using cover and smoke if not for the reinforcements and their free turn. They rendered the map impossible. This was in an uncluttered map.

Quote
So 20-30 preprimed smoke grenades should be enough (I usually give each agent either 2 or 3).

When you have killed most of them using grenades, dynamites and hi-ex (pre-prime at least some of them)

Where are you getting the strength to carry all this stuff? Do you carry medical, extra clips, flash bangs, motion sensors, stun clubs?
Enough explosives for 60-70+ enemies? How?

Infantry: Rifle, 2-3 clips, stun club, first aid or healing spray, smoke, frag, flashbang, motion sensor.
Medic: Rifle, 3 clips, stun club, medipak or healing spray, smoke, flashbang.
Heavy: Grenade launcher with 5 HE, pistol with 3 clips, stun club, smoke, flashbang.

Quote
I think you're behind the tech curve if you use Galils. You'll want BO sniper rifles or auto-sniper rifles.

I have access to both BO snipers but I like the 4 attacks per turn the Galil affords. The 105% aimed shot is enough for a trained soldier to hit 100%+. I get lots of kills with it including in the manor. Of course the damage is only around 35-37 so it won't work as well against armor.

Quote
Most of the times the battle is over in 10-15 turns.

I'm not a huge fan of forced rushing of battles. In reality a turn would be several seconds. 10-15 rounds is realistically a minute and a half. There's no reason to expect reinforcements to arrive that quickly. I do feel the same way about the "stress" system in xpiratez.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 02, 2023, 09:54:06 am
For whatever it is worth, I currently have a somewhat similar problem. I've researched Technomads for all they are worth, except they could still tell me about Cyberweb Battery.
Well, the Technomads don't tell you about Cyberweb Batteries, they just allow you to start researching them when you find some.

I have access to both BO snipers but I like the 4 attacks per turn the Galil affords. The 105% aimed shot is enough for a trained soldier to hit 100%+.
Sniper rifles shoot through smoke and across the map, though. That's their point.

In reality a turn would be several seconds.
Eh, I think that's been something no-one has reached a particular consensus on. From one point of view, you can run several hundred meters (in full gear, no less) in a turn. From another, pressing the trigger half a dozen times should take a few seconds at most.

There's no reason to expect reinforcements to arrive that quickly.
They were notified when your craft was spotted/logistics information was compromised, and were already en route? Granted, IMO this is mostly a gameplay thing, but it's not totally unrealistic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 02, 2023, 10:02:52 am
Eh, I think that's been something no-one has reached a particular consensus on. From one point of view, you can run several hundred meters (in full gear, no less) in a turn. From another, pressing the trigger half a dozen times should take a few seconds at most.

A square in X-com can't be much more than a meter. With 60 TUs you can run 20 squares. So not several hundred. Just saying.

I'll give the sniper rifles a try though. They don't weigh any more than the FAL which I was using until I got the Galil. Aside from the lack of sniper cheesiness they both make great standard infantry rifles.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 02, 2023, 10:12:13 am
I think my biggest issue with the Osprey was range. I've been running almost every mission with the Skyraider. I run 2 fire teams of 5 each with 3 infantry, 1 medic and 1 heavy in each fire team. It works great even for large numbers as long as there aren't 10 or so in the open. I could have done the manor using cover and smoke if not for the reinforcements and their free turn. They rendered the map impossible. This was in an uncluttered map.

You should build bases in other continents (at least 2-3) which have at the very least a hangar, storage (preferably two) and living quarters. Then you can fly-transfer (or even regular transfer) osprey there and go to the mission that way. Almost all the early game missions have a rather long duration and you can deal with these this way. I have not usually even built skyranger. After a while, you get kitsune and you no longer need the transfer hack (or sky* at all).

If you don't have enough bases or transferring the osprey to some location seems too big an issue at the moment, you can just use a private car to go to any far-away mission and abort. Almost all abort penalties are very small compared to despawn penalties. I certainly haven't bothered with all the missions.

Quote
Where are you getting the strength to carry all this stuff? Do you carry medical, extra clips, flash bangs, motion sensors, stun clubs?
Enough explosives for 60-70+ enemies? How?

Infantry: Rifle, 2-3 clips, stun club, first aid or healing spray, smoke, frag, flashbang, motion sensor.
Medic: Rifle, 3 clips, stun club, medipak or healing spray, smoke, flashbang.
Heavy: Grenade launcher with 5 HE, pistol with 3 clips, stun club, smoke, flashbang.

At this point, all the agents participating in the mission should have about 60 strength. If you equip some with heavy tactical suit for safety, you'll lose some though.

For missions that require a lot of gear, you should research and manufacture healing gel. It's very lightweight and then you don't need medi/traumapacks.

You don't want grenade launcher in these missions at all. If you use it, the snipers start sniping and grenading you. With BO sniper/auto-snipers, you require at most 1 extra clip.

If the main purpose of the missions is throwing a LOT of grenades, dynamite and hi-ex, the "specialist crew" approach is not really the way to go.

For example, you could equip each agent with 1 hi-ex, 1 or 2 dynamites and the rest would go for grenades (maybe 6-7 each). So the team will then be carrying 10+ hi-ex, 15-20 dynamites and 50-70 regular grenades.

Well-placed hi-ex could kill 10 enemies in one go. Usually, if the manor house is nearby, sooner or later you blast open its wall and the enemies come pouring at you. With big explosives you could end up killing 10-20 enemies per turn.

Quote
I have access to both BO snipers but I like the 4 attacks per turn the Galil affords. The 105% aimed shot is enough for a trained soldier to hit 100%+. I get lots of kills with it including in the manor. Of course the damage is only around 35-37 so it won't work as well against armor.

That's precisely one of the big selling points of BO sniper/auto-sniper. They have good damage and also have sufficient armor penetration so that you can harm essentially anyone regardless of their armor. Also you can also shoot two snap shots quite far.

Well, the Technomads don't tell you about Cyberweb Batteries, they just allow you to start researching them when you find some.

Oops, I misread the tech tree once again.  :-[
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 02, 2023, 11:01:26 am
A square in X-com can't be much more than a meter. With 60 TUs you can run 20 squares. So not several hundred.
And then your shopping malls and cinemas and apartment blocks also fit into a 30x30 or maybe 50x50 m square at most, assault rifles don't shoot much further than 30-50 m, and nobody sees beyond 40-50m for some reason.

It's an abstraction problem pretty much any tactical squad-level game that wants to fit the combat onto mostly one screen has. That, and the issue of people running across most of a rifle's range in a turn. 3D games can give you a soldier's view to offset that to a degree, but 'realistic' ranges are pretty much never used because nobody really wants to play or make huge maps that mostly don't matter at all, with the action concentrated onto small hotspots.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: SamWiseTheMoose on August 02, 2023, 06:08:24 pm
Wait, so does using grenade launchers just make the cultists more likely to chuck bombs at you, or is it cuss of the universal vision they get from hitting with a projectile?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 02, 2023, 06:32:27 pm
Wait, so does using grenade launchers just make the cultists more likely to chuck bombs at you, or is it cuss of the universal vision they get from hitting with a projectile?

Yes (compared to throwing grenades). Shooting, meleeing, rocket/grenade launching and anything else except throwing (non-instant) grenades that hits/splashes on an enemy unit defined as 'spotter' makes the enemy units defined as 'sniper' able to to shoot, throw grenades, etc. at your that unit (even without any visual contact etc.). The chances that the sniper chooses 'sniping' behaviour and how many turns it can 'snipe' depend on the rulesets.

So, to avoid being barraged by sniper shots, grenades, rockets, etc. you'll either have to kill the 'sniper' units first (though most of them are also 'spotters') or kill 'spotters' using grenades. The alternative is to use cover, take your chances, etc.

So if you really want to maximize the chances of your survival, especially with higher difficulties and/or ironman, or avoid save/reloads, it is very important to know which units are which. https://xcf.trigramreactor.net is an excellent resource for this so that you don't need to read the rulesets manually.

This tactic is extremely effective against the so-called sniper/spotter logic, which is an optional (somewhat illogical) feature that some mods use (vanilla does not have that) to make the AI tougher.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: SamWiseTheMoose on August 02, 2023, 06:42:45 pm
My god, considering I'm just about to go into the Dagon high temple, this is crazy useful info. Also, if I stop the Dagon cultists, is there anything I need to make sure I have researched before, to not be locked out of any tech?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 02, 2023, 10:40:41 pm
except throwing (non-instant) grenades
I think when I tried testing this, I was not 100% sure, but instant grenades seemed to behave just like regular grenades.

Splash damage also seemed safe, but since it's kinda hard to reliably score splash hits without hitting anyone directly, it's still better not to rely on such weapons.

Also, if I stop the Dagon cultists, is there anything I need to make sure I have researched before, to not be locked out of any tech?
It's not quite 'locks you out' territory, but do capture and research a live Gillman Deep One.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 03, 2023, 02:38:40 am
And then your shopping malls and cinemas and apartment blocks also fit into a 30x30 or maybe 50x50 m square at most, assault rifles don't shoot much further than 30-50 m, and nobody sees beyond 40-50m for some reason.

Building scaling is a little weird but not hundreds of meters weird.

Rifles shoot all the way across the map. Most of them don't even lose accuracy before the bullet goes beyond the edge. The ranges given are only for accuracy dropoff. In reality a pistol has an "effective" range of about 50 meters according to multiple sources. So some of the weapons' accuracy dropoff is a little inaccurate, but not by hundreds of meters. I figure the length of a turn according to what a soldier can do. Fire three snap shots, run 20 meters, prime and throw a grenade, etc. These things take a few seconds.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 03, 2023, 06:38:38 am
Buildings are off by a factor of at least 3, since these cannot be made strongly out of scale compared to soldiers. Outdoors are off by more.

At best, rifles lose aimed accuracy a lot at 40 tiles, and snap shots go only for ~30 tiles or so before starting to get noticeable dropoff. IRL, aimed shots are something like ~200-500 meters, possibly more, and snap shots should happen for at least 100, possibly 200.

50m for a pistol is pretty nominal and requires a very good shooter and a special pistol. In reality, a generic handgun will get you more like 10-20m, especially when someone is shooting back at you. Look at how policemen regularly miss at practically point blank range. Competition shooting is commonly at 25m and former 'free pistol' was at 50. And these guys train for this all their life.

I guess pistols are the one thing simulated pretty okay with your interpretation. As it should be, pistols are short-range.


If 20 tiles are 20 meters, everyone is blind as a bat, can only sprint for something like 15m at a time without needing a breather, knives lose most momentum at ~10m and bows at 50m, etc.


I would say a tile is more like at least 3m or so, personally. But tile scaling in isometric squad-level games has always been a lost cause.

Scaling by TU use vs number of shots is certainly more realistic.


Edit. People have tried various assumptions. Ufopedia has one guy (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/User_talk:Danial#Turn_Length) who lists possible estimates for several possibilities. Possible results go from ~5 seconds to ~26. I've read several discussions of this sort (not necessarily about X-Com, but similar games), with quite variable opinions, but that was years ago and I'm not sure these forums are even around any more, even if I managed to remember them (which I don't).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 03, 2023, 07:07:16 am
Aimed shots don't have any dropoff. Snap shots do. This correlates to making a fast shot where less time is spent aiming. Makes sense to me. I can snipe dudes with plain old assault rifles on the opposite side of the map because of this. It makes sense that quickly aiming for a snap shot would have an accuracy dropoff. We aren't talking about bullets falling or losing momentum. We're talking about the soldier's accuracy being lower due to the speed of the attack. Versus taking the time to aim at something at range. Rifle range is unlimited in X-com.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 03, 2023, 07:13:07 am
Not true. Anything not specified has aimed shot dropoff at 200 tiles, and everything that is specified, like a G11 or an RPG, has much less. And all of these have practical dropoff, a quite severe one, at the edge of vision range (40 tiles).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 03, 2023, 07:28:31 am
My bad, 200 is effectively unlimited in X-com though. And I haven't run into the 40 tile range problem yet. At any rate, I'm currently trying a manor while waiting for sniper rifles to arrive. I noticed those sniper rifles have the 50-200% damage range instead of the usual 0-200. This makes a huge difference when dealing with armor because the minimum damage is around 20-25 ignoring low level armors. However I'm currently running a manor using my old setup (8 rifles +  2 launchers, with minimal thrown) and I'm up to about 35 kills and climbing. Use of cover negates their spotter-sniper mechanic. The problem is that in one turn the "Elite (WTF) Soldiers" will appear at random locations, including behind my cover, and I don't have the snipers yet to guarantee one hit kills. So I'm going to pop smoke on this turn and hope I can take out the rest with focused fire. If not, I'll reload and wait on the snipers. /shrug
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 03, 2023, 09:19:45 am
Well, I finished the manor with nothing but Galils and BO pistols while hiding behind two little houses. Took 23 turns but all I did was hold the position until everything was dead. Galils are great as far as grunt rifles go. Those and pistols killed everything in one or two shots. Two or three for Gillmen. No reinforcements appeared whatsoever. Barely had to venture out for the last Gillman. Maybe Dagon doesn't get the reinforcements? Anyway, one manor down, ten to go. I may focus on Dagon for now if they don't get the reinforcements. I'll save EXALT and Lotus for later.

Speaking of which, how do you handle Assassins?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 03, 2023, 10:06:31 am
I noticed those sniper rifles have the 50-200% damage range instead of the usual 0-200. This makes a huge difference...
Sniper rifles are indeed awesome because they triple-dip: 50-200 damage range, damage scales with user's stats, armour penetration (reduces effective armour value). They really shine when you hit something heavily armoured you weren't prepared for, since snipers are more generally useful than specialised anti-armour or anti-big-bad-alien weapons.

Well, I finished the manor with nothing but Galils and BO pistols while hiding behind two little houses.
The small buildings are indeed good. I think the best use is actually to hide inside one and ambush all comers until the panic wave hits. This works very well against reinforcements, too. Problem is, there's no guarantee you get a building without windows close to the starting location, or at all.

No reinforcements appeared whatsoever. Barely had to venture out for the last Gillman. Maybe Dagon doesn't get the reinforcements?
No, all of them do, literally the same exact ones, too. But you might have assaulted a 'baby' manor, or perhaps the RNG gods were with you.

Speaking of which, how do you handle Assassins?
I think the common tools are dogs or drones (or later on motion scanners) to spot them, and possibly incendiaries to both discover them, make them take detours and panic them. Bio-Exo suits protect well against their weapons, too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 04, 2023, 02:43:57 am
Chasers been given immunity from mele knock outs now ? Almost impossible to bash them asleep with one of my strongest guys. need like 3 guys surrounding one in early invasion before stunrods.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 04, 2023, 06:02:40 am
Not that I can tell. They do have a bit of stun resistance, but AFAIR that's always been the case. Are you actually hitting them?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 04, 2023, 12:24:31 pm
Not that I can tell. They do have a bit of stun resistance, but AFAIR that's always been the case. Are you actually hitting them?

You might be right. Maybe I'm misremembering. Just seems Chasers and Sectoids have thicker skin now.
Hitting them ? Some misses but mostly hits.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 04, 2023, 01:00:43 pm
Chasers do have some armor to the point that using electric clubs is unrealiable. But electric prod should very often take down a chaser with one hit. Sectoid don't have so much armor but their shield helps them a bit. It's about 50/50 whether you require two hits from stun rod/electric prod when trying to stun a sectoid.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2023, 04:55:37 pm
(Re: Dimension X outpost defense)

Umm, you just increased despawn penalty. Shouldn't abort penalty also be increased? The result - the outpost gets destroyed - is still the same.

I'd rather add "civilians" (X-Com staff). They will generate a penalty if abandoned.
I just need time to finally make them. It's been todolisted for... hmm, years by now.

All right, the date is 2000-05-28. At least half a year passed since I researched the last available topic in ufopedia. I have sacked around 7 Shogg villages: 1 antman, 6 spiders. No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders.

Hmm... Save, please? The whole new end game setup is not that well tested.

I don't like new kyberi implants. They eat agent's sanity and provide negligible bonuses. While playing you probably will not notice the difference between normal kyberos and kyberos with all implants.

Perhaps. :)

Spartans are incredibly overpowered. A spartan agent resembles fully trained Uber from XPiratez: 120 TU, 150 Melee. UFO layouts simply are not designed for such power. One spartan can easily stun all aliens inside UFO by himself with his big electric stick. There is no need to choose other transformations (except olympianism, of course) if an agent have sufficient PSI (and if not, then such agent is useless in late game).

I would be more worried if I wasn't getting reports about this or that agent type being OP and the only viable choice from various people... :)

Overall game became easier.

Happy to hear, I never wanted to make XF too hard.

Currently there is almost no point to strike down UFOs at all. With speedy transport (~1000 km/h) and global radar coverage it is much more convenient to assault landed UFOs. You get all Elerium, no retaliations. In XPiratez you have to invest in interceptors, because some UFOs will not land and you need their loot in order to progress. In X-Com Files intercepting UFOs is undesirable, maybe with few exception, like striking down Terror Ships.

I don't think it's a big problem of itself, vanilla also works like this. XCF at least added several missions where you MUST shoot down something difficult.
Also, not being able to shoot down some UFOs is just painful, terror being a prime example.

Some weapons are still effectively useless. Mass drivers are weaker then gausses, but gausses comes way earlier.

I haven't come up with a solution yet.

Phew... I need a break from "The X-Com Files". Probably a long one...

Get some well-deserved rest, and I hope to see you back again :)

Nah, you've obviously installed one implant too many. :P

Badum-tss! :D

Hmm, how are you supposed to get a MiB Commander? Their 'normal' spawns, Strike Ships and Outposts, are very low-probability...

I wouldn't say that low. I might need to address this - consider it WIP.

Cult Manor spam. ELEVEN or more currently active. They are impossible to assail because of the 10 round = elite soldier SNAFU. This seems ridiculously overpowered. Seems like the manor spam should be reduced, and/or the 10-round limit removed. How in the hell am I supposed to kill 60 enemies in a cluttered map in 10 rounds? The elites spawn all over the map including on top of my position. Manor missions are IMPOSSIBLE. There are WAY too many. Can we nerf these please?

I'm following a game Dioxine plays right now, cults are mostly finished, and I haven't seen a SINGLE manor in the whole campaign. I have no idea how people get so many (when I played last, I got 3 or 4).

What difficulty are you playing on? And what month is it?

And then your shopping malls and cinemas and apartment blocks also fit into a 30x30 or maybe 50x50 m square at most, assault rifles don't shoot much further than 30-50 m, and nobody sees beyond 40-50m for some reason.

It's an abstraction problem pretty much any tactical squad-level game that wants to fit the combat onto mostly one screen has. That, and the issue of people running across most of a rifle's range in a turn. 3D games can give you a soldier's view to offset that to a degree, but 'realistic' ranges are pretty much never used because nobody really wants to play or make huge maps that mostly don't matter at all, with the action concentrated onto small hotspots.

This.

I remember reading about Stalker, which is a fairly realistic game and supposedly it recreates the town of Prypet' with great accuracy, but even there buildings were significantly shrunk to keep the game playable.

I don't remember the source though, so take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 04, 2023, 05:12:23 pm
I wouldn't say that low. I might need to address this - consider it WIP.
Er, 10% per month, at most (and that's three years in, before it's at most 3%) for a plot-critical mission seems kinda low. Edit: The Ethereal Commander's big ship comes later and is 33%, for comparison. /edit

I would be more worried if I wasn't getting reports about this or that agent type being OP and the only viable choice from various people...
But aren't Spartans objectively better than the rest, stat-wise? What's their drawback, compared to e.g. Kyberi?

I don't think it's a big problem of itself, vanilla also works like this. XCF at least added several missions where you MUST shoot down something difficult.
I have had the idea that landed UFOs are timed missions and take off + blast your craft into pieces after something like... 10-20 turns?, depending on UFO size, for quite a while. Would make it a real decision between shooting down a UFO and making the ground mission easier, or getting the phat lootz.  Doubt people would like that, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 04, 2023, 05:21:46 pm
Er, 10% per month, at most (and that's three years in, before it's at most 3%) for a plot-critical mission seems kinda low. Edit: The Ethereal Commander's big ship comes later and is 33%, for comparison. /edit

Yeah, but there are also bases, possibly other sources I can't think of... It's really hard to estimate, hence me being hesitant.

But aren't Spartans objectively better than the rest, stat-wise? What's their drawback, compared to e.g. Kyberi?

Dunno, how do you measure it objectively? By adding all stat caps? If that's the case, then Spartans are indeed the strongest, with Infernals not being far behind. But I don't think it's a very useful measure.

I have had the idea that landed UFOs are timed missions and take off + blast your craft into pieces after something like... 10-20 turns?, depending on UFO size, for quite a while. Would make it a real decision between shooting down a UFO and making the ground mission easier, or getting the phat lootz.  Doubt people would like that, though.

Piratez did something like this with supply ships, but after some time dropped this approach.

I personally think it would put too much pressure on the player, and not just hardcore campers. Like you mentioned, timed missions just aren't very nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 04, 2023, 05:45:10 pm
Yeah, but there are also bases, possibly other sources I can't think of... It's really hard to estimate, hence me being hesitant.
Bases? MiB Outposts are already included in the 10%, what other sources are there? The Wiki says the only other source is on the Moon, and that's when you've already gotten one Commander. I haven't really combed the files, but I don't recall other sources ATM.

Dunno, how do you measure it objectively? By adding all stat caps? If that's the case, then Spartans are indeed the strongest, with Infernals not being far behind. But I don't think it's a very useful measure.
Well, what do the others get in return for inferior stats? Some night vision and a modicum of armour? Doesn't seem to be worth even +20 TU, at least not for most agents, and many other types are even more behind.

I mean, I haven't played in a while, so I don't have any strong opinions (yet), but at a glance Spartans do seem to obsolete anyone who's not a specialised scout or a psion.

I personally think it would put too much pressure on the player, and not just hardcore campers. Like you mentioned, timed missions just aren't very nice.
Well, personally I would like the pressure, and you can avoid the pressure by shooting down the UFO.

But I'm a savescummer, have generally strange tastes ;D and I've seen a lot of people voicing their hatred of constant timed missions in various tactical games.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 04, 2023, 06:10:17 pm
I'm following a game Dioxine plays right now, cults are mostly finished, and I haven't seen a SINGLE manor in the whole campaign. I have no idea how people get so many (when I played last, I got 3 or 4).

What difficulty are you playing on? And what month is it?

Based on my limited experience what affects this most is how soon you get Cult Forward Base mission after interrogating the leader captured at an outpost. (And at what point you go for the outposts.) As I have already mentioned earlier in this thread, in my current SH game it took over about 15 months(!!) to get Exalt and Dagon forward base mission. I got both of them only in January 1999 and I was already starting to wonder if the mission scripts were broken in some way. By that time, those cults had managed to spawn quite a few manors even though I killed them off almost on a monthly basis - the total count is 10 at the moment.

If the RNG does not grant you the possibility to terminate the cult, it's quite likely it keeps spawning manors for much longer than and the probabilities mount up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 04, 2023, 11:54:43 pm
I know I've mentioned this before but what's your opinion on the alien terrorist attacks, specifically the 4 laser turrets ?? Those things have like deadly accuracy from 100 tiles (on beginner).

It also takes a lot of shots just to take one out. Lasers and tritanium ammo probably the best. I've calculated approx 7 to 9 shots each turret.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 05, 2023, 06:10:44 am
Based on earlier discussion, I guess you're just supposed to be able to figure out to take those out with shrapnel rockets or face major pain.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 05, 2023, 07:37:57 am
Shrapnel charges and rockets are hideously effective, yes. I still consider them a sort of cheat, just like the weird sniper-spotter stuff, for both sides (spotting upon death on the enemies' part, abusing grenade ranges and no spotting on indirect damage/kills on the players').

What also mostly works are heavy lasers (scatter and the two cannons), heavy plasma guns (Precision Plasma, Plasma Destroyer, X-Com and alien Heavy Plasmas, Plasma Snipers), heavy rockets (Elerium missiles for the Advanded Launcher can kill both turrets on one side in about 3 shots, but there are a number of anti-armour weapons here, including those shrapnel missiles), Pulse LMG with chem rounds, Gauss Snipers. Blaster Bombs, perhaps, but it takes 2-3 shots.

Oh, yeah, and the BFG. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on August 05, 2023, 11:43:22 am
Hmm... Save, please?
What exactly this save will show? Aren't I am just unlucky with Etherials? (Also, I have a habit to name my agents with my credit cards numbers, so I would like to not share the save file unless it is absolutely needed...)
The whole new end game setup is not that well tested.
What do you mean by "new end game"? Something different from Satellite --> Moon surface --> Long Corridor --> Moon City --> Moon City --> Moon City --> Below Moon City --> Cidonia?
I don't think it's a big problem of itself, vanilla also works like this.
Not exactly. In vanilla you shoot down ufos primary because otherwise they will fly away from you single radar.
XCF at least added several missions where you MUST shoot down something difficult.
??? And what is that?

Like you mentioned, timed missions just aren't very nice.
Mostly because you can't "extend" time by completing some objectives. And let's not forget about last hiding aliens.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 05, 2023, 12:11:35 pm
What exactly this save will show?
Whether you've been absent-minded and missed an existing chance, or never had a chance to begin with, I guess? Or whether you've missed some other prerequisite, or maybe the progression is buggy and your save is a good showcase for this.

Aren't I am just unlucky with Etherials?
No, you need the MiB Commander before you can start playing with the Ethereals for real.

And what is that?
In addition to Terror and Retaliation and various small scout ships and escorts (including T'leth craft), we got Domination, Flyby, Diplomacy and the Ethereal Command ship. Plus other factions' retaliation, MiB Freight, and some other small MiB and miscellaneous shadow faction craft.

I'm not convinced that's truly enticing for the player to consider regularly engaging UFOs, but it's there, as Solarius said.

Mostly because you can't "extend" time by completing some objectives. And let's not forget about last hiding aliens.
Nah, players hate even over-generous timers with a passion. You can more or less prove that if they put in even minimal effort, the timers will never matter, and they will still not like them.

Finding the last alien is why bughunt mode exists. It can be set on a mission basis as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2023, 02:29:04 pm
Bases? MiB Outposts are already included in the 10%, what other sources are there? The Wiki says the only other source is on the Moon, and that's when you've already gotten one Commander. I haven't really combed the files, but I don't recall other sources ATM.

You're probably right. Well, I guess I'll bump the odds for bases from 3% per month to... hmm, maybe 8%? Or keep it at 3% but duplicate the script? Decisions, decisions.

Well, what do the others get in return for inferior stats? Some night vision and a modicum of armour? Doesn't seem to be worth even +20 TU, at least not for most agents, and many other types are even more behind.

*shrug* All classes have advantages. I think this assessment is not fair, or at least poorly articulated. But I understand that it's a late game things, so it's not easy to study in depth.

I mean, I haven't played in a while, so I don't have any strong opinions (yet), but at a glance Spartans do seem to obsolete anyone who's not a specialised scout or a psion.

I wouldn't dismiss being able to resurrect an agent either, for example.
I personally think stats, while important, are a bit overestimated, at least at high levels.

Well, personally I would like the pressure, and you can avoid the pressure by shooting down the UFO.

But I'm a savescummer, have generally strange tastes ;D and I've seen a lot of people voicing their hatred of constant timed missions in various tactical games.

Yeah, screw them. :D I mean, there are some in the XCF, but having all UFOs work like this would be rather painful.

Based on my limited experience what affects this most is how soon you get Cult Forward Base mission after interrogating the leader captured at an outpost. (And at what point you go for the outposts.) As I have already mentioned earlier in this thread, in my current SH game it took over about 15 months(!!) to get Exalt and Dagon forward base mission. I got both of them only in January 1999 and I was already starting to wonder if the mission scripts were broken in some way. By that time, those cults had managed to spawn quite a few manors even though I killed them off almost on a monthly basis - the total count is 10 at the moment.

This sounds like everything is okay, no? Efficient playing is rewarded, while doing poorly is inconvenient (but not catastrophic).

If the RNG does not grant you the possibility to terminate the cult, it's quite likely it keeps spawning manors for much longer than and the probabilities mount up.

The RNG impacts many things, but dealing with cults, eh- not really. Or at least it's pretty unlikely.

I know I've mentioned this before but what's your opinion on the alien terrorist attacks, specifically the 4 laser turrets ?? Those things have like deadly accuracy from 100 tiles (on beginner).

My opinion is that this is the way to make these missions appropriately significant. Before they were rather underwhelming, compared to other missions.

But also, aliens doing terror missions gradually makes less and less sense within the context of XCF development (I can't see what the aliens could gain by doing them). I'll probably remove them, or rehash them into something else.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on August 05, 2023, 04:36:33 pm
No, you need the MiB Commander before you can start playing with the Ethereals for real.
That really sucks if it is true.
https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_THE_LUNAR_TRAIL (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_THE_LUNAR_TRAIL)
According to this link, you need either a commander (not any will do), either an ethereal. In my playthrough I have researched the Chaser Commander, but it looks like he was inferior one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 05, 2023, 10:47:52 pm
You're probably right. Well, I guess I'll bump the odds for bases from 3% per month to... hmm, maybe 8%? Or keep it at 3% but duplicate the script? Decisions, decisions.
I think even 8%+10% is still too low. Even the 33% for the Arbiter might be. Remember, this is a plot-critical mission (or missions). If these don't spawn, you're stuck.

All classes have advantages. I think this assessment is not fair, or at least poorly articulated.
So, besides armour and night vision, Proteans have immortality (which is more of a scout thing, and is shared with AIs), Olympians/Hybrids have psi (and some flight) and Infernals have... No loss of psi and stats somewhere between Spartans and the rest? Kyberi have their special armour and most of the NV and armour boosts, plus some 'go brrr faster' boosts.

Am I missing something? It still looks like you want mostly Spartans and some Kyberi/AIs as scouts. Psions are their own thing and aren't changed much by super-stats-but-no-psi competition.

I mean, there are some in the XCF, but having all UFOs work like this would be rather painful.
Well, the idea was that you can remove this pain at the cost of a bunch of loot and having a good air game. It's not forced on the player. But it'd still be a big departure and would probably irk most people.

This sounds like everything is okay, no? Efficient playing is rewarded, while doing poorly is inconvenient (but not catastrophic).
10 manors sounds moderately bad, and I think psavola's point was that 'efficient play' was meaningless here - if the missions don't spawn, all you can do is put out fires and hope for the best. Nothing proactive can be done.



Edit:
According to this link, you need either a commander (not any will do), either an ethereal. In my playthrough I have researched the Chaser Commander, but it looks like he was inferior one.
You need the MiB and Ethereal Commanders for the second moon mission, not the first, or satellite development. But that mission gates the endgame, so without both of them, you're stuck.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 06, 2023, 02:45:25 am
I'm following a game Dioxine plays right now, cults are mostly finished, and I haven't seen a SINGLE manor in the whole campaign. I have no idea how people get so many (when I played last, I got 3 or 4).

What difficulty are you playing on? And what month is it?

Genius difficulty. As of Sept 1998 I have cleared 3 "baby" manors, leaving at least 8 large manors active. Those are impossible to assail due to the 10-round ~FU~ reinforcements. Timed missions = FU missions. Nonsensical in terms of "game time" and no fun at all to play. I'm wondering if I can just ignore them, like... forever. I hate them. Maybe around endgame when we're all in PA with BLs or whatever XCF's equivalents are. /shrug

edit: I should add that I have put off the Cult "Operations" tree and the Osprey up until now, as this is my first playthrough and I tend to hold off on "Affects Progression" techs until I've cleared up to a certain point. I'm well past that point now and should have Ospreys online soon. So I'll be fielding more troops etc. but in the meantime I have no interest in trying to clean up 8+ timed missions with 60+ enemies each. Just ugly blips that will be on my globe for months if not years to come.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 06, 2023, 01:20:09 pm

My opinion is that this is the way to make these missions appropriately significant. Before they were rather underwhelming, compared to other missions.

But also, aliens doing terror missions gradually makes less and less sense within the context of XCF development (I can't see what the aliens could gain by doing them). I'll probably remove them, or rehash them into something else.

I think you might be right. Honestly, I like these mission a lot because of their difficulty level. And your pretty fair about score. I've had horrible terror missions and still landed a pretty decent score. So that balances it out well. The 1000 penalty is steep but I still like these missions and that death craft battleship they fly in on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2023, 01:24:52 pm
I think even 8%+10% is still too low. Even the 33% for the Arbiter might be. Remember, this is a plot-critical mission (or missions). If these don't spawn, you're stuck.

But we're talking a permanent base, not some UFO that buzzes across the sky to disappear for a month!
Also, MiB bases can start appearing mid-game, they aren't unlocked by some particular research or anything.

So, besides armour and night vision, Proteans have immortality (which is more of a scout thing, and is shared with AIs), Olympians/Hybrids have psi (and some flight) and Infernals have... No loss of psi and stats somewhere between Spartans and the rest? Kyberi have their special armour and most of the NV and armour boosts, plus some 'go brrr faster' boosts.

Am I missing something? It still looks like you want mostly Spartans and some Kyberi/AIs as scouts. Psions are their own thing and aren't changed much by super-stats-but-no-psi competition.

There is one more important thing: regeneration of energy, stun and health*. Ands also psi defence. I believe it to be more impactful than a few points here and there.

*Health regeneration in this context doesn't mean you get your HP back, but losing HP slower due to shock.

Well, the idea was that you can remove this pain at the cost of a bunch of loot and having a good air game. It's not forced on the player. But it'd still be a big departure and would probably irk most people.

Yeah. But I am even more concerned with the overall tone of the mod, which such a thing would impact immensely. I just don't know, man.

10 manors sounds moderately bad, and I think psavola's point was that 'efficient play' was meaningless here - if the missions don't spawn, all you can do is put out fires and hope for the best. Nothing proactive can be done.

No, the entire godamn point of manors is that they are preventable. That's why they were added. They appear when your anti-cult activity in the region is insufficient.
Just please don't ask me how exactly it works, I wrote it (with help) years ago and I'm not going to relearn how. :P

Genius difficulty.

Well, it is almost the highest... I certainly wouldn't pick it for a game I don't know very well.

As of Sept 1998 I have cleared 3 "baby" manors, leaving at least 8 large manors active. Those are impossible to assail due to the 10-round ~FU~ reinforcements. Timed missions = FU missions. Nonsensical in terms of "game time" and no fun at all to play. I'm wondering if I can just ignore them, like... forever. I hate them. Maybe around endgame when we're all in PA with BLs or whatever XCF's equivalents are. /shrug

Sadly I don't have enough experience with such a situation. But I think ignoring them is fine. In time they will grow into something even more serious, but it might be preferable for you.

I think you might be right. Honestly, I like these mission a lot because of their difficulty level. And your pretty fair about score. I've had horrible terror missions and still landed a pretty decent score. So that balances it out well. The 1000 penalty is steep but I still like these missions and that death craft battleship they fly in on.

OK, good to hear. Ideally I'd like to keep these missions mechanically, but somehow change the story behind them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 06, 2023, 02:19:31 pm
No, the entire godamn point of manors is that they are preventable. That's why they were added. They appear when your anti-cult activity in the region is insufficient.

They are not absolutely preventable. The RNG might still screw you. I had to wait for about 15 months for Cult Base mission to come up for two cults. I did everything the game provided and the manors still kept spawning. So I don't think it's fair to say that my anti-cult activities were insufficient.

I realize that I was having bad luck with RNG. But if this can happen for 15 months, it surely can also go on for 6 or 9 months. During which time many manors could spawn and the player can do nothing to prevent it.

To minimize this, I also suggested to significantly increase the chances of spawning Cult Forward Bases so that the mod would actually provide the player with sufficient chance of anti-cult activities to prevent manor spam.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2023, 03:23:13 pm
They are not absolutely preventable. The RNG might still screw you. I had to wait for about 15 months for Cult Base mission to come up for two cults. I did everything the game provided and the manors still kept spawning. So I don't think it's fair to say that my anti-cult activities were insufficient.

That is true. But such is the nature of RNG-based campaigns; you can also get screwed in other ways, even if steps are taken to prevent it. And with manors, the leash is not particularly tight.

To minimize this, I also suggested to significantly increase the chances of spawning Cult Forward Bases so that the mod would actually provide the player with sufficient chance of anti-cult activities to prevent manor spam.

I've been considering that, but I often get complaints that there are too many.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 06, 2023, 04:15:14 pm
I've been considering that, but I often get complaints that there are too many.

There are a couple of ways to mitigate 'mission spam', but that would require a slightly different definitions in mission scripts.

The first one would be using more 'labels' and 'conditionals' to ensure that you don't get multiple similar missions in a single month. This is used very little in XCF.

The second one would be using 'startDelay' instead of a month-long randomDelay and to more actively stagger the missions. In some other mods (eg. TWoTS) this is actually the primary way to ensure that you don't get important missions that overlap. This is not used at all in the mod.

For example, if one cult base had startDelay 0, the second one 10080 (one week), the third 20160 (two weeks) and the fourth 30240 (three weeks), with randomdelays reduced to 10000 or even kept as is, you wouldn't at the very least get these at the same time.

Another solution would be to just increase the spawn chance of forward bases, but decrease the chance or stop spawning them once you have researched the commander. This is actually the missionScripts strategy for many other missions (ie. high chance at first and the chance is reduced after you have obtained the main thing the mission is for). That way they wouldn't actively spawn for many months until the cult is terminated, but you would still get a good chance to go for the HQ.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2023, 07:55:38 pm
The first one would be using more 'labels' and 'conditionals' to ensure that you don't get multiple similar missions in a single month. This is used very little in XCF.

The second one would be using 'startDelay' instead of a month-long randomDelay and to more actively stagger the missions. In some other mods (eg. TWoTS) this is actually the primary way to ensure that you don't get important missions that overlap. This is not used at all in the mod.

Yeah, I'm aware of such tools. I'm not going to use them, though. They're cheats.

Another solution would be to just increase the spawn chance of forward bases, but decrease the chance or stop spawning them once you have researched the commander. This is actually the missionScripts strategy for many other missions (ie. high chance at first and the chance is reduced after you have obtained the main thing the mission is for). That way they wouldn't actively spawn for many months until the cult is terminated, but you would still get a good chance to go for the HQ.

Yeah I guess I could, but once you have the cult VIP, what's the point? Just finish them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 06, 2023, 08:09:53 pm
Yeah I guess I could, but once you have the cult VIP, what's the point? Just finish them.

That's precisely my point. You should significantly increase the chances of Cult Forward Bases until you have researched the Cult VIP, so that you give players a better chance finish the cults.

Currently the probability of Cult Forward Base is relatively low and you may need to wait for the base for a long time, and therefore you cannot finish the cult (except Red Dawn, because you can get the VIP also from Durathread Factory mission).

EDIT: to illustrate the point, the probability of not getting a Cult Forward Base mission for a specific cult in a month is 72 % (until Jan 1999, when the probabilities increase significantly). The probability that you don't get one for three months is 38 % and for six months, respectively, still 14 %. For nine months, it's a bit over 5 %. There's still about 2 % chance that you have to wait for at least a year. Hopefully this shows that getting delayed is not just a RNG glitch but getting significantly delayed (say 3 months or more) could happen quite frequently given that you also have four cults to deal with.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 06, 2023, 08:48:21 pm
But we're talking a permanent base, not some UFO that buzzes across the sky to disappear for a month!
Also, MiB bases can start appearing mid-game, they aren't unlocked by some particular research or anything.
Well, the MiB Commanders also have their Strike Ships that do the buzzing.

Perhaps there could be a proactive mission where you dedicate personnel/research to find a Commander outside MiB compounds/crafts, relaxing in his villa or mansion or what have you, and do a snatch'n'grab operation?

Of course, then people start wanting similar missions for Sorcerers of Dagon and EXALT Masters and... :P

There is one more important thing: regeneration of energy, stun and health*. Ands also psi defence. I believe it to be more impactful than a few points here and there.
Spartans don't really seem to have inferior psi defence, though. They actually kinda over-compensate for their lack of psi skill. Infernals have a little extra, but not massively so.

Spartans also have generally better energy and stun recovery than others. The only thing they lack is overstun reduction. Plus the really special qualities, of course.

The more I look at the Spartans, the more OP they seem. :-\

Yeah. But I am even more concerned with the overall tone of the mod, which such a thing would impact immensely. I just don't know, man.
Well, I'm not seriously proposing this, because even soft time limits aren't well received in general. Although if the aliens are willing to shoot Earth aircraft out of the sky, what's wrong with them doing a little CAS when the monkeys get uppity and interfere with the cow molesting? :D

No, the entire godamn point of manors is that they are preventable.
The effects of manors can be mitigated, primarily by removing them from the map ASAP and destroying their parent cult. Manors themselves are not preventable.

Which I kinda like. I'm not a fan of the world revolving around what the player does, myself. But obviously there are other viewpoints here.

They appear when your anti-cult activity in the region is insufficient.
Um, how? Is that even technically possible? Linking regional score (or some stand-in thereof) to mission generation, that is.

But I think ignoring them is fine.
😈

There are a couple of ways to mitigate 'mission spam'...
There is also the classic 'roll one mission from among several options' each month, but the mod has deliberately moved away from that in general.

Yeah, I'm aware of such tools. I'm not going to use them, though. They're cheats.
I don't see what makes these cheats. They seem tailored to do specific things, like a sequence of alien missions that only proceed when the previous step succeeded, or guaranteeing some sort of activity happens but it might be a weak background thing instead of a ball-busting mission. Whether the end result is exploitable is up to whoever writes the thing.

Yeah I guess I could, but once you have the cult VIP, what's the point? Just finish them.
Am I the only one who collects handcrafted canes and BL Witches for... research purposes? ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 07, 2023, 01:34:01 am
No, the entire godamn point of manors is that they are preventable. That's why they were added. They appear when your anti-cult activity in the region is insufficient.

My anti-cult activity in all regions is impeccable. The manors spawned regardless.

Quote
Well, it is almost the highest... I certainly wouldn't pick it for a game I don't know very well.

I do not play X-com on anything less than SH. The only thing forcing me down to Genius is intrepid mod makers who never think the game is difficult enough. *cough* Dioxine *cough*

Honestly though; this and xpiratez are great mods. I just think that sometimes they're geared towards min-maxing and rushing strategies that can take a lot of fun out of the game. It isn't that I think they should be easier. I just don't think they should be as punishing against players using realistic and conservative strategies like bounding overwatch and base of fire that are used by modern militaries around the world. It seems like there's nothing mod makers hate more than players taking their time to win a battle.

"Elite soldiers" appearing behind my lines after no more than 120 sec (10 turns) in a firefight with a scummy alien religious cult just isn't realistic at all. I guess the mod maker can decide what's "realistic" but it just makes no sense outside of a forced rush mechanic.

The manor battles are difficult enough without them.

This may all become moot after I get bigger squads with better gear, but 11 manors is just spam. I kill every single mission, so "insufficient" anti-cult activities is not the problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 07, 2023, 06:26:16 am
This may all become moot after I get bigger squads with better gear, but 11 manors is just spam. I kill every single mission, so "insufficient" anti-cult activities is not the problem.

You did mention your underlying problem:

edit: I should add that I have put off the Cult "Operations" tree and the Osprey up until now, as this is my first playthrough and I tend to hold off on "Affects Progression" techs until I've cleared up to a certain point. I'm well past that point now and should have Ospreys online soon. So I'll be fielding more troops etc. but in the meantime I have no interest in trying to clean up 8+ timed missions with 60+ enemies each. Just ugly blips that will be on my globe for months if not years to come.

In XCF certain things pour down on you if you don't progress quickly. Some others have brought up the same issue (would rather play slowly instead of progressing the research/mission tree). You've chosen a strategy that is unsuitable for XCF or at least makes it excessively difficult, because cults keep expanding when you don't go quickly after the root problem. Maybe in a next campaign you can try a different approach.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 07, 2023, 06:37:40 am
Some others have brought up the same issue (would rather play slowly instead of progressing the research/mission tree). You've chosen a strategy that is unsuitable for XCF or at least makes it excessively difficult, because cults keep expanding when you don't go quickly after the root problem.

This is what I mean by min/max and/or rushing strat. There is a ton of stuff to research at this stage of the game, enough that 50+ scientists can't even hope to keep up. Making the "cult operations" a priority means ignoring a massive pile of other research topics. My intent is to research sufficient gear to be able to handle the consequences of "affects game progression" techs. This is not playing slowly. Maybe instead of "affects game progression" it should read "absolutely necessary at the expense of all other techs unless you want the game to take a giant shit on you."

edit: anyway I've cleared 4 "baby" manors and now have 7 at stage 2 or whatever. Like I said I may be leaving them indefinitely, or until much later when I'm OP. What's the highest evolution of a manor? Turrets? Blaster launchers? Psionics? Chrysalids?

edit 2: I still love the mod. I just have a personal distaste for forced rushing of specific techs, min/maxing, punishing of cautious strategies, etc. Also not a fan of techs gated behind rng. But that's another rant.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 07, 2023, 07:54:38 am
This is what I mean by min/max and/or rushing strat. There is a ton of stuff to research at this stage of the game, enough that 50+ scientists can't even hope to keep up. Making the "cult operations" a priority means ignoring a massive pile of other research topics. My intent is to research sufficient gear to be able to handle the consequences of "affects game progression" techs. This is not playing slowly. Maybe instead of "affects game progression" it should read "absolutely necessary at the expense of all other techs unless you want the game to take a giant shit on you."

The significant part of this mod is balancing the tradeoffs, especially what you need and can research. Yet you still need to do missions with more risks with 'worse' equipment. That's one of the early-game thrills of the game. The thing is to figure out which risks you should take and which not (for example, attacking cult HQ without Osprey is an absolute no-go without save scumming). I doubt a very conservative play will work.

Quote
edit: anyway I've cleared 4 "baby" manors and now have 7 at stage 2 or whatever. Like I said I may be leaving them indefinitely, or until much later when I'm OP. What's the highest evolution of a manor? Turrets? Blaster launchers? Psionics? Chrysalids?

There are only three tiers. On the second, there is only one set of reinforcements starting from turn 5. On the third there, there is a possibility of four waves of reinforcements starting from turn 3. There are also a little bit tougher enemies in the greatest manor, but this is not so significant. Manors also spawn cult mission in the region, and upgrade to the next tier with a certain schedule.

The worst thing is that the greatest manors spawn hunter-killer MIGs if you cross their detection range and shoot down your craft (including your transport craft) if it's not fast enough. None of your early game craft are fast enough. There are bound to be some undetected manors. While minor delay in dealing with manors is acceptable, I would definitely try to get them out of the way before they get to third tier.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 07, 2023, 09:07:13 am
My anti-cult activity in all regions is impeccable. The manors spawned regardless.
As you said yourself, you've delayed dealing with the cults until you can do so on your own terms. Which means you are not seeing a bunch of higher-tier cult activity because your intel isn't working on it, and the consequences are manifesting themselves as manors (for now).

"Elite soldiers" appearing behind my lines after no more than 120 sec (10 turns) in a firefight with a scummy alien religious cult just isn't realistic at all. I guess the mod maker can decide what's "realistic" but it just makes no sense outside of a forced rush mechanic.
I don't think there's anything 'rush' about the reinforcements as most of the time you cannot win the battle before they show up. Quite the converse, you're supposed to find defensible positions to weather the storm.

For what it's worth, I've also seen streamers dally around like idiots and still beat at least tier 2 reinforcements with ease. I was definitely rooting for the cultists when I watched that. :)

There is a ton of stuff to research at this stage of the game, enough that 50+ scientists can't even hope to keep up. Making the "cult operations" a priority means ignoring a massive pile of other research topics.
You choose your priorities, and then deal with the consequences of that choice. Manors won't end the game for you unless you really mismanage the rest. And the manorpocalypse used to be worse than it is now.

Your focus should be on promotion research, which is emphasised in the pedia articles, and dealing with the cults is expressly mentioned as a priority.

My intent is to research sufficient gear to be able to handle the consequences of "affects game progression" techs. This is not playing slowly.
"I will research until I'm ready" is pretty much textbook turtling.

What's the highest evolution of a manor? Turrets? Blaster launchers? Psionics? Chrysalids?
Tier 3, 'greatest'. The only big differences are that there are now three reinforcement waves, and some more higher-tier cultists pitch in. Not too different from tier 2 IMO.

That, and now there are fighter jets coming after your craft that fly nearby. And more score loss from them existing in the first place.


Well, they can also upgrade a bit beyond that, and turn into the outpost of a related, more sinister faction. The power level of these is something like, hmm, TFTD Gillmen? Might have a few isolated turrets, lots of reinforcements with some aliens or alien-ish enemies mixed in. Nothing as bad as Chryssalids or Blaster launchers. IMO, these are some pretty interesting battles, actually.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 07, 2023, 02:34:48 pm
Sorry, now I remember that manors were supposed to be dependant on successful cult missions, but never managed to get it working. So they're just random.

Nevertheless, I think the entire issue is severely overblown. If you stall, accept the consequences. If you don't, you are unlikely to be swamped.

I am not a fan of putting too much pressure on the player either, but this is how the mod is designed and I can't do much, short of scrapping the whole mission system and rebuilding from scratch. And I don't think it's so bad as is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 07, 2023, 09:56:28 pm
Nevertheless, I think the entire issue is severely overblown. If you stall the mod stalls you, accept the consequences.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 08, 2023, 03:50:00 am
Nevertheless, I think the entire issue is severely overblown.

I may have overstated my point, but I still agree with myself :P

Quote
If you stall, accept the consequences. If you don't, you are unlikely to be swamped.

I think my overall complaint is the confluence of the number of missions and the reinforcements. If not for the reinforcements, I would be able to clear the remaining 7 manors without pulling my hair out.

Quote
And I don't think it's so bad as is.

No, it isn't that bad, just a bug/feature that can get out of hand and ruin an otherwise perfectly pragmatic and (successful) game.

Fixed that for you.

I waited a while to do the "operations" research, and haven't had the chance to see how rng treats me here. So part of it is my fault. 11 manors just seems excessive when I've been wiping out all other cult activity. And the "elite soldier" reinforcements within seconds of the battle starting ruin my "suspension of disbelief." Just a nuisance of a mechanic that feels forced.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 08, 2023, 03:02:47 pm
Sorry, now I remember that manors were supposed to be dependant on successful cult missions, but never managed to get it working. So they're just random.

Nevertheless, I think the entire issue is severely overblown. If you stall, accept the consequences. If you don't, you are unlikely to be swamped.

I am not a fan of putting too much pressure on the player either, but this is how the mod is designed and I can't do much, short of scrapping the whole mission system and rebuilding from scratch. And I don't think it's so bad as is.

I guess this highlights the procedural way in which an x-com game progresses.

Anyway I'm almost done with a Black Lotus manor after a little reloading to get an optimal starting position. Considering they're the worst of the bunch and I used a sub-par team for the assault, I should be able to clear the other six. Before they get bigger? Idk.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 08, 2023, 03:20:04 pm
I'm curious if someone has figured out a reliable way to deal with Syndicate HQ mission especially with higher difficulties. The place is literally crowded, and at least if you get a bad spawn location (a corner would be nice..) or tough enemies close by, you seem to be very easily screwed. I suppose the mission would be on the more difficult side even if you weren't restricted to Kevlar Vests and unarmored dogs.

I think I have previously used a 'throw around a lot of pre-primed hi-ex, go back upstairs behind the doors' strategy, but even this doesn't seem to cut it if you get a lot of nasty spawns (minotaurs, CEOs, some supersoldiers) nearby so that they'll have enough TUs and health to swarm you regardless.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 08, 2023, 03:33:23 pm
Hmm, do flames work to make them go the long way? Or just to panic them to give you more time. Mine the lifts and bark-ambush whoever makes it to the top? The minotaurs and supersoldiers are kinda beefy, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 08, 2023, 07:39:57 pm
I have never really used flame as a crowd control tool. I doubt it would work because you spawn on two locations which each have four corridors (except if at least one lift is in a corner) so there are eight ways the enemies can come at you. There's seems to be way too much to manage. Also for the same reason (there are 2*4 = 8 doors in the lifts), you cannot really use dogs' reaction barking to stop the enemies everywhere, because you really don't have room for more than 2-3, at most 4, dogs when you get on the mission. (And reaction barking is also not reliable when multiple enemies come at you, because a dog might exhaust its TUs by barking at the first enemy, and after that more come at you.)

I think I found a strategy that could help in general. The challenge is that if you have RNG where there are a dozen or even more enemies which have vision on you if you go down on the lift and open the doors, they are likely to come after you. This might also trigger the aggression of 'snipers' if 'spotters' see you.  Unless you had a good RNG, you can't rely on being able to add smoke behind the lift doors downstairs without being spotted or being shot at. And the more you do downstairs, the less TUs you have left to win the reactions 1 vs 1 check if someone comes upstairs.

So if you get in this situation, this approach might work in SH:

- stay the first turn upstairs; just throw smoke to the lifts (both upstairs/downstairs) and to the four corners upstairs entrance room (-> to increase the cost of enemy movement and reduce enemy sightings when the enemies open the doors)
- position 8 agents in the corners of the upstairs facing toward the middle of the lift with suitable weapons (I used katanas, because I was most worried of minotaurs which take way too many shots otherwise). This way they can see and can do reactions to enemies coming from both directions, not just one. Put the rest in some other relevant location (a few dogs are also ok). Move at least "the overwatch 8" as little as possible, to reserve maximum TUs so that they have much better chance to react than the enemies.
- end the first turn. Likely some enemy will wander upstairs (I got two minotaurs, but katana reaction hits overwhelmed them)
- use sensors / dog sniffs to spot the enemies on turn 2. Likely there are quite a few in the lifts or behind the doors downstairs. You should kill those in the lift (I used katanas/knives), preferably with those agents that won't be put on guard, but still it's 50/50 whether it makes sense to open the doors downstairs or repeat the same reaction tactic as above. I suggest not opening the doors  (especially if you didn't need to kill a 'spotter' in the lift) so that you have still very high TUs on most agents for reactions if needed.
- probably in turn 3 you might expand to kill those close to the doors and throw out hi-explosives to the enemies a bit further off. You might be able take out 20 enemies in one turn.
- continue with melee kills and throwing hi-ex for a couple of turns, then most of the crowds should have been exhausted; you may be able to go into the sweep mode after turn 10 or so.

NB. hi-ex should always be thrown at least roughly 5 squares away; otherwise you risk destroying the cover provided by the lift doors and you may destroy the floor/ceiling so that the enemies can see upstairs. Also, if you need to throw longer distances (15+ squares), use kneel+throw+unkneel. The kneeling angle offers a significantly longer throw range in corridors (at least 5 squares more than when standing) - this came to me as a surprise as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 08, 2023, 08:42:08 pm
Yeah, incendiaries don't really last there. I was thinking of throwing a 'nade into a lift corner and camping outside the opposite doors, but that doesn't work.

I'd probably try panicking closeby enemies with incendiaries so they waste their turn, but that isn't really a consistent tactic.


Why are you using hi-ex? I'd have thought this was a good place for something like Milkors or Multi-launchers, what with the corridors and all. Not enough killing power?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 08, 2023, 09:01:39 pm
Why are you using hi-ex? I'd have thought this was a good place for something like Milkors or Multi-launchers, what with the corridors and all. Not enough killing power?

I haven't actually even thought of using those indoors (and outdoors I have been wary of using them, fearing triggering spotter-sniper mechanic), I have supposed they require a higher trajectory (but I suppose it's actually the same or at least similar).

A pre-primed high explosive is very TU-efficient and destructive (depending on the length of the evacuation route, you could even throw even two in a turn) and in such missions as these, you can kill at least half a dozen enemies with one charge. One charge can kill everyone (except tougher ones such as CEO or Minotaur) in a corridor or in a room at the end of short corridor. So, the area effect and damage is significant enough so that you only need to throw one per turn at a given direction to be pretty sure no one will survive in that direction.

I do wonder a bit about also using napalm milkors or napalm grenades in order to cause panic. I suppose that might also produce interesting results, but I wonder a bit about whether the area effect would be big enough to cause sufficient havoc. I suppose these could be most useful against minotaurs or CEOs, ie. ones that you can't even deal with using a single hi-ex.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Freudian Slipper on August 09, 2023, 03:23:26 pm
Is there any reason to build radars (or an extra HQ, I guess) before the invasion actually starts? I guess I could try to down some of the UFOs I expect are around, but that seems problematic with my tech (six months in).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 09, 2023, 03:39:13 pm
Is there any reason to build radars (or an extra HQ, I guess) before the invasion actually starts? I guess I could try to down some of the UFOs I expect are around, but that seems problematic with my tech (six months in).

Attempting to shoot is not really worth all that it requires. There are some missions where the aliens land before the invasion. You won't likely get to those in time unless they land nearby. There's a chance that the military shoot down UFO and you might get a crack at a mission anyway. All in all, before the invasion the much needed money is better spent on other topics (especially more researchers and research facilities, more bases to expand the coverage and provide for more research).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 09, 2023, 03:56:45 pm
I guess you could try to intercept some rare cult missions that do show up on the globe, or try to tail the occasional UFO in hopes of getting the landing site. Your interceptors are likely to be pretty anemic, though, and trying to assault a UFO with a carful of agents isn't all that much better. Unless it's a moon lander, which might be doable.

I guess the more important bit is not to forget to build a radar network before the invasion starts, because it takes time and, more importantly, money.


A second HQ won't help much with radar coverage, since the detection chance is as low as it gets. It's much more useful as an extra lab, and overpriced even then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 10, 2023, 06:24:50 am
Speaking of transformations. Protean revival decreases all the physical stats by 10 %. Do I parse this right that you can then train on the missions  the stats back up to the maximum?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Freudian Slipper on August 10, 2023, 11:01:38 am
Thanks for the answers, that was helpful. Which means it's time for more questions!

The game has been spawning a lot of Black Lotus missions, and a few lucky stuns (and death rookies), means that I have "The Root of all Evil" available in July 97. I still have a lot of dossiers to interrogate out of BL members, and selling them into slavery collecting Interpol rewards for them and nicking their cash legally seizing their assets is a good source of money.

Do I "kill" Black Lotus if I do the mission? Will it respawn if I ignore it? The low despawning penalty makes me think that I can ignore it safely, but I'd rather check.

EDIT: Also, I haven't seen a thread for questions, I hope it's ok to ask them here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 10, 2023, 12:18:30 pm
Doing the Black Lotus jungle shrine does not kill the cult, it's one way to start killing it by capturing their goddess' avatar. It will respawn as long as you don't successfully complete it, and it looks like it will continue doing so even if the rest of the cult is destroyed. Which is kinda strange.



You can make your own topic for questions, but this thread also works. Heh, you can even start an 'all questions go here thread' and try to make it stick, if you wish. ;D That's how the Piratez 'little questions' thread got its start.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Bandaid on August 11, 2023, 04:10:26 pm
I started playing this mod again, had played the 2.5 version. Installed the 3.3, ah, its not working. Took a closer look, ah I need to install a new version of ufo extended. Installed that. Game loads, no bugs found so far while running a 2.5 version savegame.

What I am trying to say here is that I have less trouble and more user friendly behavior by a free mod using parts of a game which is decades old then by multiple modern games puplishers. Though I guess part of the credit belongs to the makers of ufo extended of course.

And unlike lots of modern releases you can feel the soul behind this mod/game.

Given the fact that I have fun (and frustration occasionally, looking at you pilot who landed right next to the enemy hideout!" on the level of top tier games like Planescape Torment or Vampire Bloodlines (also modded of course) I found it only fair to join the patreon.

So thanks for your work and please continue working on this fantastic mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 12, 2023, 08:05:23 am
Update: Wiped out all 11 manors, researching lasers from a crashed UFO, and just cleared a Black Lotus forward base (Thank you Scout Drones!).

edit: How are you guys fighting the ranged ghosts in the early game?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 12, 2023, 11:20:37 am
edit: How are you guys fighting the ranged ghosts in the early game?

First, take down the cultists to avoid nasty surprises. Then scout forward with a few people who have at least heavy tactical suit (a vest with a shield if not available). That will draw poltergeists' shots so you can remember from which direction the shots came from. Rush to close combat range with the heavy tactical suit guys, or after spotting (for example with a motion scanner), throw grenades or dynamites from the back lines at the location (roughly two dynamites will stun or kill a poltergeist).

An alternative tactic is to (also) use a scout drone for spotting, and then try to withdraw behind the tactical suit people, but this way the drone almost always it ends up getting wrecked. So this is only viable if you were lucky enough Ao get so many alenium shards that you have enough AI units to spare when waiting for the AI restoration duration.

A second alternative is to also employ a few untrained disposable dogs (which are not even supposed to survive the mission; I suppose bats would be even better for this due to higher TU but I never bothered with them) which do the scouting (and dying) and if by some miracle they are not shot, they can sniff out the poltergeists.

In the early game, I'd skip Haunted Houses and just do Haunted Farms, which have far fewer enemies so the situation is more manageable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Marrik on August 12, 2023, 10:53:06 pm
First, take down the cultists to avoid nasty surprises. Then scout forward with a few people who have at least heavy tactical suit (a vest with a shield if not available). That will draw poltergeists' shots so you can remember from which direction the shots came from. Rush to close combat range with the heavy tactical suit guys, or after spotting (for example with a motion scanner), throw grenades or dynamites from the back lines at the location (roughly two dynamites will stun or kill a poltergeist).

An alternative tactic is to (also) use a scout drone for spotting, and then try to withdraw behind the tactical suit people, but this way the drone almost always it ends up getting wrecked. So this is only viable if you were lucky enough Ao get so many alenium shards that you have enough AI units to spare when waiting for the AI restoration duration.

A second alternative is to also employ a few untrained disposable dogs (which are not even supposed to survive the mission; I suppose bats would be even better for this due to higher TU but I never bothered with them) which do the scouting (and dying) and if by some miracle they are not shot, they can sniff out the poltergeists.

In the early game, I'd skip Haunted Houses and just do Haunted Farms, which have far fewer enemies so the situation is more manageable.

With heavy casualties, and whatever energy weapons I was lucky enough to get from Osiron crates, and Taser Cannons for everyone else (and one or two snipers for killing the gun-wielding cultists)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Warface on August 13, 2023, 01:56:24 am
I guess I'll be putting ghosts off for a bit until I get energy weapons. The despawn penalty is only 50. Hope it doesn't snowball into something that potentially borks my game.  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on August 13, 2023, 05:57:14 pm
Alien Drone chassis for my AI units worked great for me with their laser weapons vs ghosts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 14, 2023, 11:32:56 am
Speaking of transformations. Protean revival decreases all the physical stats by 10 %. Do I parse this right that you can then train on the missions  the stats back up to the maximum?

Yes, you can retrain them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 16, 2023, 07:19:10 pm
Had an Arbiter craft mission yesterday. OMG, coolest craft ever. One of the toughest missions as well. Like 8 to 12 Sectopods. These are really enjoyable missions. Tough but tons of fun.
Great job on those.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 16, 2023, 07:22:08 pm
If an agent is hit by an incendiary grenade, how do you put out the flames so that he does not lose health?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 16, 2023, 07:30:07 pm
If an agent is hit by an incendiary grenade, how do you put out the flames so that he does not lose health?

The flames often go off by themselves, so most of the time I don't bother. But you can use for example a Fire Extinguisher. It may make sense to have one or two as backup on missions. There are some other more complicated equipment that can do the same, but for beginners that is sufficient.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 16, 2023, 09:43:49 pm
Had an Arbiter craft mission yesterday. OMG, coolest craft ever. One of the toughest missions as well. Like 8 to 12 Sectopods. These are really enjoyable missions. Tough but tons of fun.
Great job on those.

<3

If an agent is hit by an incendiary grenade, how do you put out the flames so that he does not lose health?

Apart from the Fire Extinguisher which Psavola mentioned (or the one mounted on the Medical Drone), you can also use a Chempistol/Chemogun loaded with an Extinguisher Tank.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 17, 2023, 11:46:50 am
Apologies for dumb n00b questions:

1. Is there a way to heal ONESELF with the starting medical equipment? I thought I saw on playthroughs, people healing wounds with their own kit before, but I can't seem to do that myself. Perhaps it is a later equipment?

2. Looking at the beginner's lightning stun rod, it appears 1 handed, because stats for nerds never mentions it being 2 handed. Is there really zero negatives at all to hold it and a pistol at the same time? Is there likewise zero issue holding a regular pistol and a tazer at the same time lol

3. If I forgot to research in the first month should I restart  ;D

4. What button can you use to quickly armor people up? I saw on a video someone was able to click a single button to equip armor on a lot of crew, rather than have to open list every person

5. Is it generally best to spread out researchers rather than pile them into one thing unless need to rush something? I heard for each one assigned they become slightly less effecient.

6. Is there much point researching really terrible outdate equipment /melee weapons like a baseball bat

7. Is there a limit on how much you can bring on public transport? I am paranoid that I am missing things that I assign

8. I am enjoying the mod great job :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 17, 2023, 12:34:38 pm
Is there a way to heal ONESELF with the starting medical equipment?

Perhaps it is a later equipment?
Yes, healing sprays. The first version comes relatively early, from an obvious branch of the tech tree.

I'm not entirely sure why it's only those that can be self-applied, and use personal settings where a lot of other kits work on the user, but take a lot more TU as well.

Looking at the beginner's lightning stun rod, it appears 1 handed, because stats for nerds never mentions it being 2 handed. Is there really zero negatives at all to hold it and a pistol at the same time? Is there likewise zero issue holding a regular pistol and a tazer at the same time lol
If you mean the stun club, yes, that's one-handed. Generally, pistols have no penalty, but you can always check by saving, dropping the other gun and observing any accuracy changes.

The only real 'penalty' I know of is which gun gets used for reaction fire. You can right-click on them in the Battlescape to prioritise one over the other.

If I forgot to research in the first month should I restart
Probably? It's not a game ender, but you do want good progress and losing one month of gameplay is much less of a problem than three months, or a year, or... :D

What button can you use to quickly armor people up?
Right-click.

Is it generally best to spread out researchers rather than pile them into one thing unless need to rush something? I heard for each one assigned they become slightly less effecient.
Each one assigned is not less efficient per se, but research gets done in dayly 'batches' and any overflow is lost. So in practice, putting a lot of eggheads on one topic is likely to waste science-days. Then again, if you always research everything with just one guy, you'll never get anywhere at an acceptable pace. So you need to strike a balance.

Quick fluffy topics like the one million conventional guns and blades, low-tier cultists, etc can be left to one scientist. New transport craft, big guns, heavy armour, fighter jets, not so much.

Is there much point researching really terrible outdate equipment /melee weapons like a baseball bat
A little bit of score, convenient access to its stats in-game, including during battle, completionism. And you never know that this weapon isn't actually useful due to some weird quirk. Old melee weapons are surprisingly OP, to the point a buff agent with a big axe can just hack through supposedly near-indestructible UFO walls.

Is there a limit on how much you can bring on public transport? I am paranoid that I am missing things that I assign
In theory, there can be limits on how much crap you can assign onto a craft, but I don't remember if that was a thing in XCF at some point. Doesn't seem to be ATM. Edit: Yeah, very recent change to remove them again, see below. /edit

Looted stuff is magically transported to your base by friendly Council Salvagers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 17, 2023, 01:24:14 pm
Version 3.1 has been released.

3.1:
- New missions: Cereal Cult, Agent Wilheard's Voyage.
- New terrain: Cargo Ship (reworked from TFTD).
- New weapon: Rift Staff.
- New ammo: Dart Pistol Anti-E115 Clip, Dart Rifle Anti-E115 Clip.
- New units: Ghost Eye, Phantasmal Tentacle, Agent Wilheard.
- New cities: Marrakesh, Antalya, Aleppo, Naples, Glasgow, Sarajevo, Chisinau.
- New country: Serbia.
- New agent nationality: Serbian.
- New dossier: Agent Wilheard.
- New Apocalypse legend: Red Moon Curse.
- 4 new events (some by Dioxine).
- New Ufopaedia section: Martial Techniques.
- New Ufopaedia articles.
- Added Dr. Hadriex combat analysis page.
- 3 new Caves maps (2 by Dioxine).
- New firing sounds.
- Warp weapons damage armor.
- Reworked dart clips B and C into acid and electric clips respectively.
- Kludge and Mateba have slightly worse snap ranges.
- .454 Casull Ammo has Firing Accuracy bonus, but worse armor penetration.
- Monsters Inc. Files are cheaper to sell.
- Dogs have some anti-camouflage.
- Minotaurs can be tamed by X-Com (base defense only).
- Hell Cruise with Dr. Hadriex uses Cargo Ship terrain.
- Disabled most missions from spawning in the first month.
- Added retaliation variants to automatic retaliations.
- More retaliation race tiers.
- Extra rewards on some missions.
- Ignoring Dimension X defence missions is more costly.
- Hybrid convoys actually travel now.
- Combat analysis is now usually unlocked by autopsy.
- Decreased unpriming costs for most explosives.
- Marker is Concealable.
- Boombox is faster.
- Taser now has snap shots.
- Dart Musket is buyable.
- Klein Bottle Grenade is deconstructable.
- Removed craft item limits (due to bad interaction with Apocalypse-like item management).
- Sanity requirement Martial Arts Training lowered.
- Some name lists reviewed and improved (by Ivan Sanchez).
- Caves tweaks (by Dioxine).
- Seaside grass is shorter.
- Almost all commendations are initially hidden.
- Better Outdated Weapons picture.
- Overhauled briefing colors.
- Added mini-icons for the Liquidator (by Dioxine).
- Added missing articles on various built-in attacks.
- Fixed Sectopod minigun.
- Fixed Ghost Terror Blast.
- Fixed Hungarian area.
- Fixed Chief Accountant introduction texts.
- Fixed Master of X description.
- Fixed retreating from the Syndicate HQ.
- Minor fixes (thanks to Emil J. Schroeder).

WARNING: If you upgrade mid-campaign, you will lose all your dart ammunition. Better sell it before the update!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on August 17, 2023, 01:57:44 pm
Quote
1. Is there a way to heal ONESELF with the starting medical equipment? I thought I saw on playthroughs, people healing wounds with their own kit before, but I can't seem to do that myself. Perhaps it is a later equipment?
Healing sprays.

Quote
2. Looking at the beginner's lightning stun rod, it appears 1 handed, because stats for nerds never mentions it being 2 handed. Is there really zero negatives at all to hold it and a pistol at the same time? Is there likewise zero issue holding a regular pistol and a tazer at the same time lol
Yes, if both weapons are one-handed, you're set. To quickly know if a weapon is one or two handed, see if there is a small 2 at the bottom right corner. Red means you can only use with empty other hand, green means there is an accuracy penalty.

Quote
If I forgot to research in the first month should I restart  ;D
It's not exactly run-ending, but the game does force you to rush. I would recommend restarting.

Quote
What button can you use to quickly armor people up? I saw on a video someone was able to click a single button to equip armor on a lot of crew, rather than have to open list every person
Armor up one unit in the armor screen, then press right click to copy last armor onto this unit.

Quote
Is it generally best to spread out researchers rather than pile them into one thing unless need to rush something? I heard for each one assigned they become slightly less effecient.
Each research topic has a specific research time. Each scientist assigned to the topic deducts from it once a day. So, you should assign N researchers only if N divides the research time.
To know the research time, middle click the topic and check top left -- the time here is displayed with symbols like . - = #.
. means 1 day, - means 5 days, = means 20, # means 100. Add them up and you get the time.

So, for a research with == (40 man-days), you should assign only either 1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 20 or 40 scientists. All numbers that divide 40 days.

Quote
6. Is there much point researching really terrible outdate equipment /melee weapons like a baseball bat
Score and, thus, money. Additionally there are some (melee) weapons that stay good throughout.

Quote
7. Is there a limit on how much you can bring on public transport? I am paranoid that I am missing things that I assign
Not in OXCE. There was in the original game, but no longer present here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 17, 2023, 02:15:06 pm
Not in OXCE. There was in the original game, but no longer present here.
Akshully... :) Craft item limits were reintroduced sometime in 2020, and have been present in XCF for a while. Just got removed, in fact.

I've always removed or upped them myself, so I didn't remember off-hand.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on August 17, 2023, 03:14:25 pm
Oh, well, I have only played XCF in 2018 or so and this month, so I missed all of this then. But yeah, current ones have been negated looks like, every craft has 9999 slots.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 17, 2023, 04:25:04 pm
Current ones have virtually unlimited slots. Used to be 999 for a while.

I just put 30 million and change :o stapler boxes onto a Land Rover as a test. The UI is starting to have trouble handling such numbers, but the car trunk is fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on August 17, 2023, 09:31:28 pm
- New country: Serbia.
Always wanted to ask: do you plan to add every single country into the game? With each added new country the game actually becomes slightly easier, since aliens do secret pacts at the same rate, also less chances to sign a pact with someone significant.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 17, 2023, 11:02:51 pm
Thank you Delta and Juku for your replies,

1. I saw in tech tree topic search the intelligence center requires figuring out the basic gangs existence, while the bio lab requires medicine track.

In my playthrough, after briefly getting distracted attempted to get better armor (I stopped just short of kevlar vests, want to do that soon thgough) I instead diverted to go do bio lab first, and then beeline to intelligence center (Aiming for these things only hoping to get more scientist slots than 5, as soon as I saw there are a million research topics lol)

Without telling me the best absolute way to start, how would you rate this plan from POOR up to EXCELLENT  ;D I just want to know if this was a catastrophic idea to do it in this order

2. Does researching regular weapons change how well they can be used? I have a AK-47 unresearched but when I tried it from a dead guy it seemed pretty junk and I stuck with shotguns and pistol loadouts lol. I assume aliens weapons of course are unusable without certain techs

3. is it a good idea to get a second base pretty quickly? For now I just been saving money hoping to build bio lab and intelligence center, and then try to build second base

4. In the gym, what does the + button actually do? I see stats change when clicking but idk what it means. Also, some agents that I think are assigned as pilots, cannot be in the gym perhaps? They have a plus or minus thing next to name but again I am unsure what that does

Thanks for help with my basic questions
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 17, 2023, 11:29:24 pm
That new MIB Lunar Mission is insane. Was like 114 kills in total (parts 1+2). the mapping is also really good.
Honestly wasn't sure I was going to make it. Lost a lot of good guys. Part 2 was nearly impossible on beginner. 

I wont give away any spoilers, just wanted to give a thumbs up for the great new bling. This was a tough one. Mission also took me a good part of two hours.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 17, 2023, 11:36:14 pm
questions

Well, Biolabs, a second base and Promo I are the best opening goals I know, so I'd say you're doing well. :)

For most weapons, research just allows you to by them and, more importantly, their ammo. There are some weapons that gate certain research topics, though, but it's not the Makarovs and AKs that do this.

Even poor looted guns can be good, though. AKs have both range, some armour penetration and auto-fire for close-up work, even if they're crappy as assault rifles go. You need a well-trained agent for a PA shotgun to compete with that at range.

And there will be much better looted stuff later. Not even that much later. You'll hate it when it gets used against your agents, though. :D

A second base gives you better transport coverage, whether via a second team or transferring, but it's a lot more costly. Research is not the ultimate measure of progress, though, so there's a balance to be struck here, again. If you think the Battlescape part is under control, I'd go for a base. If not, research things that will help with that.

The + button toggles between 'natural' and 'bonus' stats (commendations and transformations).

The '+' next to an agent's name is there because they can't participate in training, but they're ordered to do so when they can. Usually that's because they're wounded. Otherwise, they can train even while piloting a jet fighter on the other side of the globe. X-Com has some super-advanced training methods. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 18, 2023, 06:05:21 am
There are at least two ways to go. Whether to build a second base quickly and build bio and intel labs there. Or try to push for promo II and science lab quickly, which will be better value for money and allow increasing research throughput significantly.

In my recent SH campaign, I think I delayed building a second base and concentrated on improving the main base (the absolute requirement then is getting science lab as soon as possible), even saving some money to be ready for the science lab (2M + a lot to hire the scientists the next month) if there was not a good use for it. If you get missions on the other side of the globe, just use a private car to get then in time and abort the mission. You can cover about half the globe with a helicopter anyway. I don't think you actually need a real global reach until you are ready to deal with cult outposts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 19, 2023, 11:28:15 am
Today I met the Black Lotus ninja for the first time. It cost me a lot of nerves. As far as I understand, they cannot be seen from a distance, you need to approach somewhere by 5 cells. How to fight this enemy more effectively?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 19, 2023, 12:04:50 pm
Anticamo (drones), motion scanners (dogs qualify), incendiaries and large-radius explosives to flush them out. Incendiaries also panic them. More men and a tighter skirmish line. Bio-Exo suits have night vision (night equalises visibility vs BL quite a bit) and good resistances against ninja weapons.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 20, 2023, 12:21:51 pm
Promo I is required to purchase the СКС rifle and M3 Greasegun. I don't have a Promo yet, but for some reason I can already buy this weapon... Is this a bug?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 20, 2023, 10:19:58 pm
Promo I is required to purchase the СКС rifle and M3 Greasegun. I don't have a Promo yet, but for some reason I can already buy this weapon... Is this a bug?

Well,

Code: [Select]
items:
  - type: STR_SKS
    requiresBuy:
      - STR_SKS_BUY

Code: [Select]
research:
  - name: STR_SKS_BUY
    dependencies:
      - STR_SKS
      - STR_NONSTANDARD_WEAPONS
      - STR_MILESTONE_1_SUMMARY

It's not possible to buy it without Promo 1.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 22, 2023, 09:14:12 am
Hmm... So I missed the message about Promo 1... Is there somewhere I can check my current Promo?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 22, 2023, 09:37:11 am
Ufopedia?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 22, 2023, 10:51:56 am

https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_MILESTONE_1_SUMMARY
Do you mean this?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 22, 2023, 10:54:14 am
https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/STR_MILESTONE_1_SUMMARY
Do you mean this?

No... The in-game Pedia...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 22, 2023, 10:58:20 am
I have read the entire in-game wiki. This is very interesting and useful. But I don't remember that it says where you can see what my current Promo level is...
I remember that during the game it was somehow possible to see a large number of statistics on the game at the current moment, but I don’t remember how I did it ... maybe it was indicated there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 22, 2023, 12:24:14 pm
But I don't remember that it says where you can see what my current Promo level is...
It's one of the very first articles, under Reports. If it's not there, you have not been promoted.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 22, 2023, 12:41:46 pm
It's one of the very first articles, under Reports. If it's not there, you have not been promoted.
Indeed there is ... And it is marked as not new. Thank you, comrade!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 22, 2023, 11:37:54 pm
I had trouble figuring out how
Kyberism (to use cyber eyes, ets) works)
I tried installing the skull plate I believe, just couldn't grasp how it was done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 23, 2023, 12:00:50 am
Was the patient an actual cyborg, or did you try to do this to some random agent? What was the trouble you ran into, anyway?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 23, 2023, 12:44:11 am
Was the patient an actual cyborg, or did you try to do this to some random agent? What was the trouble you ran into, anyway?
No it was an agent. Not an AI unit. I'm ready for cydonia mission. Even my top agents don't qualify.
Under transformation overview, I have materials needed but no agents qualify.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 23, 2023, 06:39:43 am
There's no such thing as skull plate. For what it's worth, at least a few implant installations have worked just fine for me (obviously must have med bay for any of them).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 23, 2023, 08:08:31 am
I arrived on a mission to meet with an agent, but they wrote to me that I was late and ambushed.
I wonder if I could have had time to meet with the agent, or was it originally intended?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 23, 2023, 09:14:32 am
No it was an agent. Not an AI unit.
Were any of them actually Kyberi?

I wonder if I could have had time to meet with the agent, or was it originally intended?
No, you were doomed from the start.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 23, 2023, 09:40:36 am
Hello sometimes I see people recommend to leave abort missions

For example, I also saw in the yogscast playthrough years ago, they landed and aborted many missions but didn't take point loss unless civilians

Sometimes when I abort missions I get a hefty abort mission negative, while in other missions there is only maybe civilian dying negative. Is there a way to know which missions are skippable? Generally I try to do all missions
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 23, 2023, 11:35:09 am
I also try to complete all the missions, but sometimes I have to retreat, which makes the game even more interesting.
Note that if you don't complete a mission, you are usually told that the case is not closed. Probably, such missions receive some kind of penalty - it would be logical.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 23, 2023, 01:13:56 pm
Mission abort score penalty is (always? haven't checked everything) lower than despawn score penalty. The latter you can see when you click on a mission marker, so if it looks bad, it's worth trying to go there even if you're certain you won't be able to do the mission. If the despawn score is peanuts, go ahead and ignore it if you wish.

Civilian deaths do skew this calculus a bit.

AFAIK, 'case is not closed' is just a string - there's no general mechanic for continuing the 'case'. While theoretically, one could do this on a mission-by-mission basis, I don't recall anything like that existing in the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on August 23, 2023, 03:05:55 pm
Were any of them actually Kyberi?

That's what I can't figure out, how to get them Kyberi :-)

There's no such thing as skull plate. For what it's worth, at least a few implant installations have worked just fine for me (obviously must have med bay for any of them).

Sorry, meant Skull jack.

You mean Sickbay/Advanced sick bay ? or maybe there is a Medbay I missed ?

EDIT: Yup, research never popped for medbay
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 23, 2023, 04:12:50 pm
That's what I can't figure out, how to get them Kyberi
Complete the Cyberweb arc.

You mean Sickbay/Advanced sick bay ? or maybe there is a Medbay I missed ?
No, these two are what you need.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 23, 2023, 05:10:40 pm
No, you were doomed from the start.
My second mission to meet the agent was radically different.
Now they wrote to me that the agent is on site and needs to be escorted to the vehicle. The map was just like the first time. There was no ambush.
I did not see anyone and made exactly one turn, after which the mission ended - I received one prisoner (apparently, this was the same agent). In addition, I got some junk and... $100,000 + $500,000 :). Probably, this agent robbed one of the Cults :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: krautbernd on August 23, 2023, 08:56:45 pm
My second mission to meet the agent was radically different.
Now they wrote to me that the agent is on site and needs to be escorted to the vehicle. The map was just like the first time. There was no ambush.
I did not see anyone and made exactly one turn, after which the mission ended - I received one prisoner (apparently, this was the same agent). In addition, I got some junk and... $100,000 + $500,000 :). Probably, this agent robbed one of the Cults :)

Yes, "Meet the informant" missions are basically all different mission sites named the same way so you have no way of knowing which one was actually spawned. They all have the same spawn chance and research triggers, so it's essentially random which one you get.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 24, 2023, 01:25:28 am
The intelligence center states "you won't be able to research intelligence projects without this lab (or an HQ) present "

Why does it say "or an hq"? Does it mean this facility is nit necessary on your hq base?

I am also confused on what exactly it does and how to tell if a tech requires the building to research. Will you be able to assign researches but it won't make progress?

For example, MIB has been taking a long time to interrogate, abd I wonder if it's because I have no intelligence center on main base
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on August 24, 2023, 06:39:17 am
The intelligence center states "you won't be able to research intelligence projects without this lab (or an HQ) present "

Why does it say "or an hq"? Does it mean this facility is nit necessary on your hq base?

HQ provides the function "Intel Lab", so the text is correct. It is needed for interrogations (and a few other things). It is still useful to build an intel lab, because you get the additional scientists.

Quote
I am also confused on what exactly it does and how to tell if a tech requires the building to research. Will you be able to assign researches but it won't make progress?

For example, MIB has been taking a long time to interrogate, abd I wonder if it's because I have no intelligence center on main base

"Intel Lab" facility just allows you to research somethings you otherwise couldn't research. It doesn't speed things up at all.

If you are curious, here's the list where it's needed: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/INTLAB

When deciding what to research it is advisable to also take into account how much work it takes. MIB agents require 180 scientist days, while for example Black Lotus Footmen only 10 days. You can see the difficulty with symbols ".", "-", "=" and "#" which correspond to how difficult it is (from the easiest to the more difficult). In the beginning I wouldn't waste the precious research capacity to MIB agents.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 24, 2023, 07:54:13 am
HQ provides the function "Intel Lab", so the text is correct. It is needed for interrogations (and a few other things). It is still useful to build an intel lab, because you get the additional scientists.

"Intel Lab" facility just allows you to research somethings you otherwise couldn't research. It doesn't speed things up at all.

If you are curious, here's the list where it's needed: https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master/article/INTLAB

When deciding what to research it is advisable to also take into account how much work it takes. MIB agents require 180 scientist days, while for example Black Lotus Footmen only 10 days. You can see the difficulty with symbols ".", "-", "=" and "#" which correspond to how difficult it is (from the easiest to the more difficult). In the beginning I wouldn't waste the precious research capacity to MIB agents.

ohhh ok makes sense now

Does canceling a research project make it start over when started again? I have had a single guy on the MIB guy for awhile , but afraid to cancel it in case it makes me start from scratch again lol

Also I never noticed those symbols, I will have to look out for them, are they on the extra info screen of the techs?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 24, 2023, 08:42:34 am
Yes, cancelling a project wipes out all progress. Researching the same thing in several bases doesn't stack, either. X-Com believes in competitive research. :D

The scientist-day estimators are visible in the Tech Tree Viewer (MMB). Note that these are only estimations, the actual cost of the project can be 50%-150% of that, decided when you click on the 'START PROJECT' button.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: krautbernd on August 24, 2023, 09:57:10 am
Does canceling a research project make it start over when started again? I have had a single guy on the MIB guy for awhile , but afraid to cancel it in case it makes me start from scratch again lol

Instead of cancelling you can also simply assign 0 scientists to the project, that way you don't lose any progress.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 26, 2023, 04:26:10 pm
1998 arrived and I jist got science lab, but no osprey yet.

A manor appeared , but it seems difficult go get close and I hear they are difficult

Shpuld I ignore it until osprey ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 26, 2023, 05:44:28 pm
Osprey can be researched without a proper lab, although it's probably a pain to do that due to its research time.

Manor air defences can be diverted if that's what you're having trouble with. Or killed off, but you likely don't have actual interceptors with weapons worth the name yet.

If it's still a baby manor, it'll only get worse, so better get it when it's still young. Baby manors can be identified by them having no actual aircraft (fixed wing or rotary) serving as interceptors. Even if there are rotating blades involved, it's still a young manor and should be killed off before it grows worse.

Manors are not that bad, depending on your difficulty level and tolerance for reloading. If you want to have no margin for mistakes, it can be a bit hard. But a Dragonfly's worth of troops and a reload or two can absolutely take a manor, at least a tier 1-2 manor, especially if it's one without enemies who have grenade launchers (or Deep Ones Gillmen)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on August 27, 2023, 07:49:31 am
1998 arrived and I jist got science lab, but no osprey yet.

A manor appeared , but it seems difficult go get close and I hear they are difficult

Shpuld I ignore it until osprey ?

Depends on which manor it is and how good your soldiers are. A manor is doable with even 6 good soldiers and proper armor, if you can take out the terrorists. Additionally, it also completely depends on which map you roll. There is one that makes a manor very easy and one very annoying one.

You should not enter the manor itself, just stay outside and do reaction traps. Do be aware that starting from second tier you may also get elite soldiers spawning in. The danger with them is that they like to spawn very close to you with no easy way to react to them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 27, 2023, 01:54:35 pm
When you have several missions on the Globe screen at the same time, it is very inconvenient to navigate in them ...
It would probably be a good idea for the screen to be centered on the point with this mission after clicking on the mission line.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: tris85 on August 27, 2023, 03:05:38 pm
Lately I've noticed that holdingt Alt-Key shows an arrow above the head of my agents (their view direction). In combi ation with dog's scout (e.g. for Ninjas) I can see the arrow on the position where the enemy is (without actually seeing him). Sure I could and sometimes did count the fields. But that makes it so much easier... Still it sometimes feels a bit abusing. So long story short: is this an expected behavior? Or am I abusing a mechanic not intendet for this - or maybe even just a bug?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 27, 2023, 03:21:01 pm
You can right-click to center on a mission marker. The game auto-centering would be annoying, IMO.


ALT highlighting enemy positions is a feature, even and especially for Motion-Scannered fellows (although their Z-position should remain unclear).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: tris85 on August 27, 2023, 03:38:24 pm
Ah, cool! Ok! Did not notice the unclear Z-axis yet, but thats fair! Thank you for your information! Was afraid I could maybe unbalance the game using this mechanic.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Fiskun1 on August 27, 2023, 06:56:05 pm
You can right-click to center on a mission marker. The game auto-centering would be annoying, IMO.
Thanks for another valuable tip! Now it's much more convenient.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 28, 2023, 05:36:22 am
Depends on which manor it is and how good your soldiers are. A manor is doable with even 6 good soldiers and proper armor, if you can take out the terrorists. Additionally, it also completely depends on which map you roll. There is one that makes a manor very easy and one very annoying one.

You should not enter the manor itself, just stay outside and do reaction traps. Do be aware that starting from second tier you may also get elite soldiers spawning in. The danger with them is that they like to spawn very close to you with no easy way to react to them.

How do I get to the manor at all? I seem to get intercepted some way, although I am new to air combat in xcom in general. I sent an empty helicopter to it just to see what would happen

Do the extra troops spawn at a side of map or do they just spawn, right next to you? I do have good troops to send at least
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on August 28, 2023, 06:49:24 am
How do I get to the manor at all? I seem to get intercepted some way, although I am new to air combat in xcom in general. I sent an empty helicopter to it just to see what would happen

Do the extra troops spawn at a side of map or do they just spawn, right next to you? I do have good troops to send at least

It's an alien base. You need to discover it. Find where the enemy craft spawns in and check if there is a city close to it. Send a car or something to the city and just patrol there for a couple seconds, you'll find the manor.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 28, 2023, 09:54:47 am
If the question was how to get through the air defences... You can either kill the defenders (but it's a crapshoot until you get proper aircraft yourself; still, even a minigunned-up Little Bird can score against a MiG sometimes), bait them away with a sacrificial or just fast decoy, or merely wait until they either drift off or despawn. New air defences take a while to respawn (a week or so?).


The reinforcements spawn at the map edges (or close-ish) away from your starting edge. Do note that this means they can spawn in a corner adjacent to your starting edge, so that might not be as far as you think. Otherwise, they do keep some distance from your agents (at least 10 tiles or so).

But in the end, they still spawn in with full TU, so if your people are close to their spawn area and/or within their newly established line of fire, that's still a bad turn waiting to happen. Tier 3 manors have several waves of reinforcements, which is why they're extra bad.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: tris85 on August 28, 2023, 12:06:30 pm
New air defences take a while to respawn (a week or so?).

Hey, question concerning this: does intercepting air defences increase month rating?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 28, 2023, 12:47:40 pm
I don't see why not, these are technically UFOs and have score entries. Can't test in-game ATM.

Now that I look at them, it seems UFOs proper have had their scores halved compared to vanilla, for some reason.


Note that once you get interceptors that can reliably take down cultist craft, you can use these to train pilot stats. Even going as far as having four craft gang up on one enemy so everyone can get XP. ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: tris85 on August 28, 2023, 07:34:07 pm
In my last savegame with the latest 2.x version I researched some body mod where I could send my Agents to hospital a few days and they received some hp and strength. Was this removed or what am I missing? Dont remember the name so I cant look it up in the wiki and dont want to spoiler myself too much so I dont want to search for it. But could really need it right now ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 28, 2023, 08:52:46 pm
Well, I can reassure you that no transformation has been removed at least since 2.5.

If you're thinking about what I think you're thinking about :D, you likely haven't either researched the right things, or have just missed looting a certain... substance. Or maybe sold it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 31, 2023, 07:20:16 am
Hello lo wo refuge popped up, but I still only have tasers and the starter electric stick 😂 (any shotgun with Stun ammo is my main method of stunning but hard to hit ninjas)

Should I bother trying to capture him? It appears the mission will never come again if I don't go there

My plan if not to capture him is to just throw fire everywhere, because I also lack motion scanners to find ninjas , and to jist kill him but I worry about the fire destroying the objects he might have?

To get a ninja I flash-banged him then piled with sticks , but I doubt I will survive doing that here
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 31, 2023, 07:36:45 am
Do people actually use dragonfly?

Why use it over osprey, just because it 1k more miles?

Also I am a fool. I got a deep one corpse by chance very early in gane by random event. I did autopsy but never bothered with alien biology. Lo and behold early 1998 military shot down ufo and I got almost all of then stunned. If only I had researched alien containment! Didn't expect to see a ufo before 1999
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 31, 2023, 09:47:58 am
Shotguns aren't very reliable, though.

Lo Wo is a onetime chance (unless you do something about it, like the 'maxrun's mentioned in the other thread), but capturing him doesn't give anything unique or even terribly hard to get otherwise.

Objects are fireproof, even if units and some terrain are not. So burn away to your heart's content. ;D

Don't you have dogs for 'motion' scanning?

Personally, I just taser the ninjas. Too hard to hit with melee weapons. Also, remember that most enemies have less dodge from the sides and especially back, if you want to go the police brutality route.


Dragonfly has a bit more range, you can cover the glove globe with two of them from opposite poles, unlike Ospreys. It's also a bit faster, can be used for a few semi-covert missions and, most importantly, is usually available earlier. But, yeah, generally Ospreys are a big upgrade.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: theophilos on August 31, 2023, 10:20:59 am
Oh yea I just liked using shotgun because don't have to get so close to hit with aimed , especially with higher accuracy guys, compared to tasers , can stay at a safer distance, but usually requires 2-3 guys working together

Oh I somehow researched the osprey first lol , I've just been using the helicopter

Is the two handed prod worth it? It seems cumbersome to use,


By the way how do you increase strength besides the gym? Is there a cap on strength? I got a machine gun but it's so heavy only my surviving OG guy can carry it,  if he wears no armor ,

No I never researched the dogs I git distracted by other things although I knew they could motion scan , besides I'm more of a cat person 😂 but I see I could get bats and Rats too. I imagine bat is nice for Scouting
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on August 31, 2023, 10:49:56 am
If you mean the cattle prod, it's indeed cumbersome and will get an upgrade to mitigate that. Still, compared to the basic stun stick, it's much better for avoiding melee reactions (by one-shotting the enemy) and piercing armour (both because of higher damage and armour penetration). It's more of a specialist weapon than the little club you can stuff into everyone's pockets.


Strength is a 'secondary' stat and is increased by doing stuff in combat (hitting enemies, reacting, psi, getting panicked). If you do something, you get a roll to increase strength (and all other 'secondary' stats) at the end of the battle. Unlike 'primary' stats, it doesn't matter how much you do that something, or what exactly, just that you do it.

Strength has a cap, but it can vary between soldier types (basic agents and quite a few others have 50, hybrids have 40, etc), plus armour stat boosts, commendations and transformations can be added to that. Usually, the gym cap is 5 points below the actual cap.


Sadly, no cats in this mod, unlike Piratez. Bats have insane melee dodge and flying/night vision/camo, so can be very useful in some situations. They're kinda hard to acquire and keep alive, though, since they tend to start dying from even the softest touch.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 31, 2023, 11:27:19 am
I forgot to update the thread name for 3.1. :) Now fixed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on August 31, 2023, 12:51:20 pm
Ok ill try out the prod, and it's just called "electric prod" , I havjt found a cattle prod in searches

Ok, I felt perhaps cap was 50. The heavy machine gun weighs 52, I was just trying to think of ways to get another less valuable member to be able in hold it in his birthday suit lol.

Are the "transformations " generally worth it , do they avoid the cap? I can do accuracy transformation,  but I'm getting confused how these work or if it's worth loss in sanity. The eerie places are very tough with low sanity

Regarding armor piercing, I am having trouble understandijg it. Is the ammo stats what to care about? For example if says on ammo "armor effectiveness 85%" does this mean their armor is only 85% of what it usually is ? Or is armor reduced by 85%? Or?

---

By the way it was a HUGE success on LO WU refuge. I had 10 hazmat men with incendiary and gas grenades all activated , throwing fire around. 4 of them had tasers , and Stims all around. 2 agri flamethrower to make fire walls and to have the extinguisher in case VIP burns

5 shotguns of high acc troops with Stun ammo in regular armor, 1 grenade launcher with flash grenades rear guard

Slowly advanced with fire throwing ahead blindly and if any hazmats killed then I would trigger gas and fire grenade dead man switch which wouldn't harm the hazmats

Was able to defeat the ninjas with very few deaths even without motion scanner methods. Hazmat suits are so cool to try things outside box !

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on August 31, 2023, 01:29:18 pm
The 'Electric Prod' is essentially a cattle prod without mentioning it. TBH, I'm a bit disappointed that them farmers don't have those. :D

HMG is really something you use when you have some super-soldier serum in you, or are wearing some kind of power armour, not running around naked. (Light) Miniguns are a similar weapon that's man-portable earlier on, as strange as it might look.

Most transformations are very much worth it. Blood Boosting is of questionable utility, and soldier type transformations are a choice. I think the one transformation that had an immense down time was fixed a while ago, so no hidden traps either.

Transformations and commendations indeed get added to your 'base' stat, so they do avoid the cap. Some transformations also add 'base' skill up to the cap, this is on a separate line in the transformation UI (if it applies, i.e. the soldier isn't maxed yet).

Sanity can go pretty high eventually, but, yes, it's a tradeoff which transformations you take and whether you have  a separate 'sane' team. There are also sanity-restoring drugs.

Armour effectiveness indeed means armour only counts as 85% of its value in the damage calculation, e.g. 100 kinetic damage at 85% armour effectiveness vs 50 armour at 90% kinetic resistance is 100*0.9-50*0.85 = 47.5 damage. Which then probably also reduces armour if it penetrates. Note that pure damage is also essentially a form of armour piercing, and armour tends to get damaged after being penetrated once, which is another sort of penetration.



Interesting tactics with the ninja master. I usually just throw/launch incendiaries like crazy, but I also use instant grenades, so that's that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on August 31, 2023, 04:01:10 pm
Hi thanks for reply that cleared things up

I remember watching Lewis and Ben playthroigh (0.9 Era patch), and remember they had to fight a lot of deep ones. Yet for me, I have found the dagon HQ yet have never had a deep one raid ? And no underwater missions, it is early 1998

Will I miss out if I defeat the dagon hq before these raids? Also if I dont attack the hq/am defeated, will I locate the hq again?

I have pretty good weapons and armored vests but I remember they only defeated the HQ with 1 person remaiining in similar circumstances...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on August 31, 2023, 04:33:24 pm
I don't remember L&B that well, but AFAIK the Deep One missions are largely the same. They're still very RNG-dependant, so that might be it. And most of them start around Oct-Nov 1997 at the earliest (one earlier, some a lot later), so you might not have had much chance to encounter them yet.

Underwater missions are something you initiate, via research.

Dagon HQ has both paths to unlocking underwater missions within it. If you capture the right creepies. ;) You will indeed lose some of the aquatic invasion missions if you kill the Dagonites off. But assaulting the HQ does not do that automatically, you can delay it and farm the HQ instead, if you wish. :D

The HQ respawns as long as Dagon cultists are organised and operational, regardless of how your assault goes. Dagon HQ is probably the easiest of the four. Deep Ones Gillmen, dynamite and grenade launchers are the big threats, and there's plenty of opportunity to do indirect fires yourself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 01, 2023, 01:35:34 pm
Trying to capture Lo Wu alive is tough. Not only his stealth ninja minions, that ancient Katana is deadly.
I'd like to see something more gained for capturing him alive. Like one stealth ninja suit (similar to gaining the ancient katana).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 01, 2023, 05:12:54 pm
Trying to capture Lo Wu alive is tough. Not only his stealth ninja minions, that ancient Katana is deadly.
I'd like to see something more gained for capturing him alive. Like one stealth ninja suit (similar to gaining the ancient katana).

I think the katana is definitely enough. :)

But there will probably be more such rewards added over time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 01, 2023, 10:03:34 pm
Playing this version on experienced for a second go.. The Hybrid "Large landings" (wooden fortress) are insane. They are throwing 3 napalm grenades at me per turn. From like 50 tiles away.
This maybe a bit much ? Almost impossible to go through this mission w/out losing multiple guys And this is only on "Experienced skill level".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 01, 2023, 11:16:28 pm
Playing this version on experienced for a second go.. The Hybrid "Large landings" (wooden fortress) are insane. They are throwing 3 napalm grenades at me per turn. From like 50 tiles away.
This maybe a bit much ? Almost impossible to go through this mission w/out losing multiple guys And this is only on "Experienced skill level".

Is this vanilla X-Com Files? This doesn't seem familiar at all, and I don't think hybrids ever use napalm grenades either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: nicedayright on September 02, 2023, 05:03:09 am
What's the logic behind the Tritanium Ammo economy? It just seems like it's not worth it to ever spend my precious alien alloys (before I can mass produce them) on ammunition instead of armor or anything else. It's one alloy to one clip, whereas it's only four alloy to make a whole suit of armor. So I could have I could have 24 .44 caliber rounds or a whole bulletproof vest?

I don't think the cost of armor should be increased, considering a whole small UFO may net you under 20 alloys, but shouldn't ammunition be batch craftable? You know, 1 for 5 or even 10 clips? As it stands I'd basically never use alloy ammunition until I have a tritanium foundry and by then I have better options.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2023, 12:36:43 pm
Is this vanilla X-Com Files? This doesn't seem familiar at all, and I don't think hybrids ever use napalm grenades either.

Yeah, they don't have napalm. Only incendiary grenades, and not that many.

What's the logic behind the Tritanium Ammo economy? It just seems like it's not worth it to ever spend my precious alien alloys (before I can mass produce them) on ammunition instead of armor or anything else. It's one alloy to one clip, whereas it's only four alloy to make a whole suit of armor. So I could have I could have 24 .44 caliber rounds or a whole bulletproof vest?

Truth be told, I don't know what is the "best" usage of tritanium, I'm leaving it to the players to choose. But if you think that the tritanium to clip ratio is bad, then I'm open to discussion - this is not easy to balance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 02, 2023, 12:49:21 pm
Truth be told, I don't know what is the "best" usage of tritanium, I'm leaving it to the players to choose. But if you think that the tritanium to clip ratio is bad, then I'm open to discussion - this is not easy to balance.

I've brought up the same thing before.

I think it's fine that in the early parts of the game (before the invasion, even 6+ months after it has begin) no player should waste the alloys to tritanium clips except in exceptional circumstances. You want to preserve it to armors, some minor things (for example, tritanium knives are a reasonable upgrade), a few thunderstorms/ravens, and for at least one improved lab. I suppose this is just something the player needs to figure out (or read from various threads) and no hand-holding is needed.

But after that point - before you get or even need a foundry - you might want to use the excess for some clips if you're still using BO sniper/auto-sniper, shrapnels, etc. A year later, you will have probably migrated to turbolasers and some other equipment, so you won't need tritanium clips in any case, and might use it only for special weaponry (e.g. rockets and shrapnels).

I don't think this would change significantly even if manufacturing alloy clips was easier (for example you'd require only half the current amount), so I don't really see much that could change here.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 02, 2023, 01:11:23 pm
I don't think it's fine, because of two reasons. First, alloy ammo becomes obsolete long before it's available in quantity, perhaps excepting market-bought rounds from M.A.G.M.A. Although those also cost an arm and a leg, but I suppose frugal use will last you for a while. And second, alloy use is inconsistent, not only between armour/aircraft and ammo, but also between different types of ammo.

26+ rounds of big bad HMG ammo vs 6 magnum rounds for a revolver or 11 tiny pistol bullets vs 1/4 of torso+joints protection or 1/6 of a full-body riot suit. It's the same issue that was discussed here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11302.0.html). Realistically, a set of armour plates - never mind a full-body suit - should take at least two-three orders of magnitude less more :-[ alloys to make than even the biggest round you can fire from a rifle without knocking yourself out.

And even discarding realism, it doesn't strike me as conducive to good gameplay to have one-off items like armours cost peanuts compared to consumables. It's the same thing as all the horribly inflated prices in many CRPGs that make players ignore most store-bought items altogether. I don't really know why developers continue doing that time after time. Because of tradition?

Anyway, back on topic, neither do I see any benefit in making a small, dinky pistol round cost less than half the materials needed for a HMG bullet ten times the size and something like 3-4 times the damage.



At the very least, bullet costs should be more consistent between different guns. Alloy availability is already an enormous hurdle that makes you use your stash with great deliberation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Mathel on September 02, 2023, 01:36:52 pm
Realistically, a set of armour plates - never mind a full-body suit - should take at least two-three orders of magnitude less more alloys to make than even the biggest round you can fire from a rifle without knocking yourself out.
A correction.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 02, 2023, 02:25:43 pm
Is this vanilla X-Com Files? This doesn't seem familiar at all, and I don't think hybrids ever use napalm grenades either.

Yes Vanilla, maybe mistaken, not Napalm but there's definitely fire. They are also all equipped with black ops guns/ammo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 02, 2023, 02:40:52 pm
The only 'wooden fort' that comes to mind is this, and it has no hybrids at all. Can you elaborate?

Edit: Okay, there is a fake UFO that recycles this structure and has hybrids. They don't really have 'all' BO weapons, maybe half. Something like under 1/5 do have incendiary grenades. I'd be more worried about the fact that they all have some sort of grenade, most of which kill and not just set your men on fire. Oh, and the RPGs and giant floating laser tanks.

It's a somewhat rare mission, though.


Also, I'm not sure why the Hybrids and Apoc guys share this structure, never mind why they've suddenly decided to ditch their own arsenal and become BO customers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Nerro on September 02, 2023, 03:23:44 pm
Regarding the tritanium ammo, I've had the same experience.
By the time I had enough alloy to mass manufacture it, I had also reach the point where I could mass manufacture laser weapon ammo.
I only really manufactured .44 and tactical sniper ammo with it.

Maybe some magazine could be produce in multiple units (1 tritanium for 2 rifle magazine for example).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 02, 2023, 04:06:24 pm
I don't think it's fine, because of two reasons.

I certainly agree that the number of alien alloys for manufactoring does not appear to be balanced on the whole at least from the realism POV - comparing for example an agent body armor and a hand-gun clip. However, I would not prefer to "fix" the lack of balance by multiplying by 5-10x the current cost of body armors etc. because the game difficult enough at that point already (and you would further need to reflect this to crafts, etc). And in a similar fashion, decreasing the clip cost could be tricky and I wonder if it would still change anything. I doubt I would manufacture a lot of alloy clips even if you could get 5 clips for 1 alloy. Maybe for some select situations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: nicedayright on September 02, 2023, 05:03:42 pm
Just from a perspective of mass, the amount of metal you need to fully armor an adult human would make you a *lot* of cartridges.

From a gameplay perspective it makes some things actually worse than useless. Consider that you can make tritanium ammo for your scout drones at a cost of 4 alloys per clip. As in, a whole armor set gone down range and you probably wont even fire it all.

I know we don't like comparison to other mods, especially when they've got such wildly different tones, but I can't help but think the ammo mass production method from Piratez should be considered. It makes more sense to order your ammo in batches where each crafting result is between five and ten clips depending on the caliber. One alloy for ten pistol mags would make it a lot more viable economically, and you could adjust the calculus for the other types of ammo.



I'd also argue to switch wholesale to mass production for *all* craftable ammo types just for the sake of playability, but that's a whole different can of worms.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 02, 2023, 05:11:36 pm
@psavola: Would you not manufacture the alloy ammo because you have better uses for the alloys, because the alloy ammo sucks by the time you get it, because manufacturing is a pain, something else?

I for one would certainly manufacture the heck out of alloy ammo if I could do that without completely crippling my alloy economy and there was a source of sufficient alloys in the relevant time frame - which in my experience tends to be more around or right before the invasion, not a year after.


And even if not, it would seem more prudent to give those who wish a viable - even if not optimal - path to an efficient alloy-armed force, instead of everybody just writing it off altogether.



Last I played, I at least unified the alloy costs so it took 8 alloys for an HMG box and 1 alloy for 3 small pistol mags. It was still horribly inefficient, but at least made a little more sense. And I was continuing a game from before Tritanium Matrixes were a thing, so alloys were kinda available.



Edit: Mass production has the downside of complicating the UI as to the exact number of what you're manufacturing. I regularly produced 1000 grenades, or 1000 clips, or 70 suits of armour using mouse wheel scrolling. Then again, I'm weird and have a high tolerance for micromanagement. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 02, 2023, 06:00:22 pm
Thanks for all the opinions. I will think about whether I should focus on giving the player more opportunities to capture some tritanium ammo or give you more clips per tritanium unit. Or maybe nothing. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 03, 2023, 11:37:44 am
Where do you get "ninja scroll " item? And is the scroll of secrets of the dossier  ninja guy only useful to sell, it has no tech
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 03, 2023, 11:50:34 am
Where do you get "ninja scroll " item?

In some bigger Black Lotus places, including their HQ.

And is the scroll of secrets of the dossier  ninja guy only useful to sell, it has no tech

What the heck dude? It can be researched.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 03, 2023, 12:22:01 pm
My apologies, when I middle clicked on it nothing came up

But I see now it is reseearchable after get the ninja scroll researched first , in order to then research the secret scroll
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 04, 2023, 01:11:08 am
The only 'wooden fort' that comes to mind is this, and it has no hybrids at all. Can you elaborate?

Edit: Okay, there is a fake UFO that recycles this structure and has hybrids. They don't really have 'all' BO weapons, maybe half. Something like under 1/5 do have incendiary grenades. I'd be more worried about the fact that they all have some sort of grenade, most of which kill and not just set your men on fire. Oh, and the RPGs and giant floating laser tanks.

It's a somewhat rare mission, though.


Also, I'm not sure why the Hybrids and Apoc guys share this structure, never mind why they've suddenly decided to ditch their own arsenal and become BO customers.

You were right, it is about half black ops guns/ammo. Also right about Napalm, it is incendiary, I'm still on fire though  :D

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: nicedayright on September 04, 2023, 04:52:27 am
Objectively, being on fire is an advantage, as ninja cannot get you if you're on fire.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 04, 2023, 09:23:29 am
Objectively, there are no Hybrid Ninjas (or they're very sneaky ;) ), and they can still shuriken you even if they don't like the flames. And they actually might like the flames.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 04, 2023, 10:43:03 am
I am stuck on "reptoid assassination squad". I'm in a building with lots of civilians, but it's turn 29, no signs of any enemies,  no civilians are being killed or anything yet, I've explored all I could, except 3 tower rooms which are inaccessible. (Going to try to break the wall to get in , but only small arms were aloud)

Could it be the enemies spawned in a place where they are stuck?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 04, 2023, 11:21:34 am
I am stuck on "reptoid assassination squad". I'm in a building with lots of civilians, but it's turn 29, no signs of any enemies,  no civilians are being killed or anything yet, I've explored all I could, except 3 tower rooms which are inaccessible. (Going to try to break the wall to get in , but only small arms were aloud)

Could it be the enemies spawned in a place where they are stuck?

You'll need to post a save to confirm or deny. Probably not, though. The place is a maze with all the floors (there are also a lot of downstairs) and having scanners/dogs is useful. This is especially useful when you don't get any visual or audio clues (opening/closing of doors etc) on civilian or enemy movement. To prevent false positives and to protect the civilians, it is advisable to stun the civilians you came across.

I doubt you actually meant "no civilians are being killed.. yet". You probably meant "anymore", because usually a large number of them get killed very soon. It would indeed be very strange if this wouldn't have happened to you at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: krautbernd on September 04, 2023, 02:25:33 pm
I doubt you actually meant "no civilians are being killed.. yet". You probably meant "anymore", because usually a large number of them get killed very soon. It would indeed be very strange if this wouldn't have happened to you at all.

I wouldn't necessarily say "usually". Both the civs and the aliens tend to spread out, and normal difficulty levels there's what, three or four reptiods on a giant map with many small rooms. I have had missions where the reptiods didn't manage to kill a single of their targets and at least one where the civs killed the last remaining reptoid. I wouldn't call something like this "unusual", given the setup.

@theophilos

Yes, please upload the save in questions, let's have a look at this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 04, 2023, 03:28:31 pm
I am stuck on "reptoid assassination squad". I'm in a building with lots of civilians, but it's turn 29, no signs of any enemies,  no civilians are being killed or anything yet, I've explored all I could, except 3 tower rooms which are inaccessible. (Going to try to break the wall to get in , but only small arms were aloud)

Could it be the enemies spawned in a place where they are stuck?

If it is similar to the Exalt HQ building (yes I had a reptoid assault mission there once), go to the first floor. You'll see some rooms which are not accessible. They have white panels on them instead of doors.
Fire a few shots of ammo at them or use a grenade. They are usually hiding in there. It's a stairwell.

There might be access from the basement too, i can't remember. I only say this because I had a similar issue a while ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 04, 2023, 11:32:14 pm
That's what I can't figure out, how to get them Kyberi :-)


Alright so I figured this out.
Soldiers need to first install the TNI plate before any Kyberi (Cyber sight, Cyber heart, etc.) can be done.

I'm gonna be honest here, the documentation/popped research could probably be a bit more user friendly.

I'm sure most people can figure this out after stumbling on it but i must have missed it, where it mentioned TNI must be taken place in order to take advantage of the Kybri functions.

Maybe place a disclaimer on the Kyberi research "TNI must be done for Kyberi enhancements".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 04, 2023, 11:36:12 pm
Erm, you need the TNI (and not TNI plate, whatever that is) to become a Kyberos in the first place. No cybernetics if you're not a cyborg seems intuitive enough?

Edit: Even if both the tech blurbs and the transformation descruiptions didn't mention that in the first place. Which they do.

Edit2: If you mean there should be a clearly stated TNI requirement for the agent-to-Kyberos transformation itself, yeah, that seems sensible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Vakrug on September 05, 2023, 12:04:03 am
Maybe place a disclaimer on the Kyberi research "TNI must be done for Kyberi enhancements".
This is just a minor inconvenience. If you have some guys with TNI already installed (and you probably are), then it is easy to guess the requirements.
And now compare this with "Blood Boosting". Description just says: "WARNING: BLOCKS SOME OTHER TRAININGS." Yeah, go figure it out! And transformations cannot be undone!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 02:48:48 am
What's the interaction between gym training (and psi-training for that matter), transformations and commendations?

For instance, agents by themselves gym-train up to 65 FA. Is this FA limit the limit on inherent soldier FA, the value before any commendation or transform effect is applied?

Certain commendations can increase FA: if I were to have a soldier at 64 FA, get them a commendation that increases their FA by 1, thus getting to 65 FA, will the missing 1 FA to cap still be trained?
Same issue with transformations, but two-fold there: it appears there is some inherent difference between bonus changes and stat changes. If I have a soldier at 60 FA, give them Gun Kata, their stat changes by 10 and then +5 extra is added on top, for the purposes of gym training does the soldier still have 60 FA, 70 FA (only stat change included) or 75 FA (all of them included)?

I assume there really is such a difference between effective and inherent stats because in Agent screen, if you sort by stats, the value displayed on the right can mismatch the actual FA displayed in this soldier's info screen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 05, 2023, 03:36:08 am
You'll need to post a save to confirm or deny. Probably not, though. The place is a maze with all the floors (there are also a lot of downstairs) and having scanners/dogs is useful. This is especially useful when you don't get any visual or audio clues (opening/closing of doors etc) on civilian or enemy movement. To prevent false positives and to protect the civilians, it is advisable to stun the civilians you came across.

I doubt you actually meant "no civilians are being killed.. yet". You probably meant "anymore", because usually a large number of them get killed very soon. It would indeed be very strange if this wouldn't have happened to you at all.
I wouldn't necessarily say "usually". Both the civs and the aliens tend to spread out, and normal difficulty levels there's what, three or four reptiods on a giant map with many small rooms. I have had missions where the reptiods didn't manage to kill a single of their targets and at least one where the civs killed the last remaining reptoid. I wouldn't call something like this "unusual", given the setup.

@theophilos

Yes, please upload the save in questions, let's have a look at this.

Hello here is update:

Yes it was like the exalt building,

Explored everything , took over hour with the darkness. Top floor had one large accessible room tower, and three smaller inaccessible room towers that went down to bottom level. the only way to get in was to blast hole into wall. There was 2 enemies in north tower and 2 in Southern most tower. No civilians killed minus 1 who ran through the hole lol , this was aboit turn 30 I finished exploring to find out no doors into these towers

Sadly I dont have the save anymore , if it would have been useful to fix problem. I will just tell myself,  that the reptile assassins were hiding in the walls and were found out before they could hatch their plans!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 05, 2023, 03:45:22 am
Erm, you need the TNI (and not TNI plate, whatever that is) to become a Kyberos in the first place. No cybernetics if you're not a cyborg seems intuitive enough?

Edit: Even if both the tech blurbs and the transformation descruptions didn't mention that in the first place. Which they do.

Edit2: If you mean there should be a clearly stated TNI requirement for the agent-to-Kyberos transformation itself, yeah, that seems sensible.

I think for us here that have played this game (and beat it it) a few times over, we can grasp the basic concepts and wing it as we go (figure it out). But to someone playing this thing first time around, they aint going to put this together.

And if your answer is tech blurbs mention this. There are boat loads of tech tree info on transformations. Can't expect to remember all of them unless, as I said before.. You've played the game a few times over like most of us here have.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 05, 2023, 06:30:04 am
How badly does manors effect overall income? There seems to be 4 manors total (march 1998)

One of them I killed quickly 1997 but I was late In connecting dots that cars=manors , do only discovered rest until now. #2 of 4 I don't know location. #4 killed last month. #3 located but outside of osprey range so.  Thinking to send 8 man team.. exalt.. 😢

No flying jets coming out of them yet

I assumed manors would make income go down in a country so when I saw nothing go downward I assumed safe, but now I'm wondering if I've been so low on money, because of these manors flattening countries income?

Also is it ok to sell alien weapons ? I have some but afraid if selling there might be nechanic of cults receiving them lol

Any other money making tips, im stuck at 2 bases rn. 2 ospreys, 40 scientists, 25 engineers,  kinda stuck at under million $ to float freely l, would like to afford 3rd base and get ready for aliens

Have dagon hq defeated but need to research statue still, have black lotus avatar ready to be interrogated, red dawn coordinator being interrogated, I can research alien alloy engineering but unsure if worth atm

Not sure what kind research I should be prioritizing to shoot down aliens , also unsure which tech allows me to view my troops psi strength


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 05, 2023, 07:13:57 am
What's the interaction between gym training (and psi-training for that matter), transformations and commendations?

For instance, agents by themselves gym-train up to 65 FA. Is this FA limit the limit on inherent soldier FA, the value before any commendation or transform effect is applied?

Certain commendations can increase FA: if I were to have a soldier at 64 FA, get them a commendation that increases their FA by 1, thus getting to 65 FA, will the missing 1 FA to cap still be trained?
Same issue with transformations, but two-fold there: it appears there is some inherent difference between bonus changes and stat changes. If I have a soldier at 60 FA, give them Gun Kata, their stat changes by 10 and then +5 extra is added on top, for the purposes of gym training does the soldier still have 60 FA, 70 FA (only stat change included) or 75 FA (all of them included)?

I assume there really is such a difference between effective and inherent stats because in Agent screen, if you sort by stats, the value displayed on the right can mismatch the actual FA displayed in this soldier's info screen.

Commendations are applied last. Flat stat changes first. Bonuses before that. You can no longer train after you've achived the training cap (including flat stats changes) but not commendations. I'm uncertain about bonus stat changes but I have been assured here that they work like flat changes in that it's not important in which order you apply for example transformations.

Instead of training caps, it's more interesting to consider stat caps. For regular agents, firing accuracy is maxed at 90. When you have 89, you're still able to get an increase at a missions even though your effective, commendations-included, stat is over 90. Also, if you want to micromanage, you might want to get the stat maxed naturally in a mission before getting a transformation that gives you a bonus, because in battlescape you might get a stat change that goes above 90.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 05, 2023, 07:39:05 am
How badly does manors effect overall income? There seems to be 4 manors total (march 1998)

One of them I killed quickly 1997 but I was late In connecting dots that cars=manors , do only discovered rest until now. #2 of 4 I don't know location. #4 killed last month. #3 located but outside of osprey range so.  Thinking to send 8 man team.. exalt.. 😢

No flying jets coming out of them yet

I assumed manors would make income go down in a country so when I saw nothing go downward I assumed safe, but now I'm wondering if I've been so low on money, because of these manors flattening countries income?

Also is it ok to sell alien weapons ? I have some but afraid if selling there might be nechanic of cults receiving them lol

Any other money making tips, im stuck at 2 bases rn. 2 ospreys, 40 scientists, 25 engineers,  kinda stuck at under million $ to float freely l, would like to afford 3rd base and get ready for aliens

Have dagon hq defeated but need to research statue still, have black lotus avatar ready to be interrogated, red dawn coordinator being interrogated, I can research alien alloy engineering but unsure if worth atm

Not sure what kind research I should be prioritizing to shoot down aliens , also unsure which tech allows me to view my troops psi strength

You might want to read through the tips and tricks thread, which includes a huge number of small advice as well as some strategic tips: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8199.0.html

Manors have a very small impact on your income (monthly score -3 to -5) so that's irrelevant. The worst thing is when they upgrade to tier-3 and have MIGs that could be faster than your craft and shoot them down. Manors generate minor cult missions in the region, but that's mostly irrelevant as well. The manors upgrade on certain schedule. After 5 months, the manor has 30 % of chance to upgrade to a greater manor and after 10 months it's 100 %. The same upgrade chances from greater to the greatest manor. The greatest manors have 10 % chance to upgrade to hybrid embassies after 6 months. Later in the game, the manors might also spawn directly as tier2 or tier3.

Obviously it's the easiest to deal with manors when they are tier1 (no reinforcements), but IMHO tier2 is also fine if you know the tactics. You'll just have to learn the locations of manors and avoid tier3 until you trigger the MIGs, run away and after that assault it (once the hunter-killers have been triggered, there's a very long cooldown for them to go for you again).

It's fine to sell all alien plasmas until the beginning or mid-1999. You can use the money, and you get plenty more of them before you can research them. Alien lasers you can learn to use much earlier so I'd try to hold on to at least some of those (and all the clips).

Researching 'metapsychology' is the one where you get to evaluate the PSI strength of your agents. Browsing the research tree with 'Q' and http://xcf.trigramreactor.net are your friends. You should obtain some idea of what's useful to research. There's so much junk around that otherwise you get swamped (you have already been I think). Playing 'blind' a recipe for disaster and a restart sooner or later.

You still have plenty of time before the invasion starts, and in any case it will be a rather slow beginning. You don't necessarily even need to shoot down anything at first. You don't need to be too much concerned about that at this point. You should rather focus on expanding your research potential (science and other labs in the bases) and obtain global coverage. Your number of scientist shows that you don't have full research even at your two bases yet.

At this point of the game, most of your funding comes from the council and its gradual upgrades keep you afloat. The second main source of income are the money briefcases and money bags you might get when dealing with cult safehouses, outposts, forward bases, etc. Whether you get lucky and get manor funds is up to RNG.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 08:25:44 am
Commendations are applied last. Flat stat changes first. Bonuses before that. You can no longer train after you've achived the training cap (including flat stats changes) but not commendations. I'm uncertain about bonus stat changes but I have been assured here that they work like flat changes in that it's not important in which order you apply for example transformations.

Instead of training caps, it's more interesting to consider stat caps. For regular agents, firing accuracy is maxed at 90. When you have 89, you're still able to get an increase at a missions even though your effective, commendations-included, stat is over 90. Also, if you want to micromanage, you might want to get the stat maxed naturally in a mission before getting a transformation that gives you a bonus, because in battlescape you might get a stat change that goes above 90.

The reason why I'm asking is because my long-term strategy generally revolves around getting many soldiers, gym training them until they hit training caps minus 1-2 (as the last two points usually take an obscene amount of time), then applying transforms in such a way so as to get stat changes to increase the stat until stat cap and only then consider bonus.

Technically it'd be more efficient to mass train trained rookies until their stat is enough that after applying all flat stat changes I reach stat cap, but this requires me to actually send them out to missions like manors or something, which generally comes with risk of death as they're not good enough yet to shrug off hits as I couldn't be bothered to play training regimes correctly, I just get them in a line and let them reaction shot, then abort. It's dangerous because dynamite and such, however, risking mass deaths, but that's the least micromanage-y approach.

Only fully kitted up soldiers are then let into doing missions.

It should be noted that after doing some calculations, I discovered that, for instance, with Firing Accuracy, it is as expensive to just acquire soldiers en masse and then filter them at 59 firing accuracy as it is to train them for several months, salary and cost of living included. This only works for one stat, however, and breaks down for filtering by several stats. For 59 Firing Accuracy threshold, the soldier cost will hover around $200k, but it is much quicker to get a soldier like that than to train them.

The problem is that it's not entirely clear if I can apply transforms to eligible rookies immediately with no net loss of stat gains produced by them or not.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 05, 2023, 08:53:41 am
The training if the agent doesn't go out on missions takes a rather long time and the stats are still miserable. While having a backup of 10-20 rookies in training is probably a good idea, I wouldn't suggest doing it on a much grander scale.

Having played a couple of ironman campaigns (vet+SH) up to a certain point, I would rather suggest considering focusing on a playstyle where you don't lose soldiers or only lose them rarely (losses are of couse inevitable in the beginning, because the agents are so weak and the body armors non-existant), so don't need a reserve of 30-40+ weak rookies in the first place. I've personally been well satisfied with 30-40 agents in the primary base plus some (and dogs) in others. There are a LOT of easy-ish missions, where you fill at least 50% of your craft with recruits in training (or dogs to be trained). Using reverse stat strings mod you can easily get a grip on which agents can still improve (except for commendations) and only send those on most missions.

From what I have seen, the most important stat you may want to look at (until you are able to screen for PST) is bravery. You require 30 for combat pilot training and 50 for TNI, and if you start with e.g. 10, the agent will need to get wounded or panic a couple of times in missions to be able to progress. If you want to maximise the survivability of rookies, I suppose you want stats where you can get bio-enhancement as early as possible. Melee accuracy also takes very long time to get trained so that you can go to martial arts training, which likely also in practice requires field missions. Less than 30 PST also locks you out of martial arts training.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 09:17:53 am
The training if the agent doesn't go out on missions takes a rather long time and the stats are still miserable. While having a backup of 10-20 rookies in training is probably a good idea, I wouldn't suggest doing it on a much grander scale.

Having played a couple of ironman campaigns (vet+SH) up to a certain point, I would rather suggest considering focusing on a playstyle where you don't lose soldiers or only lose them rarely (losses are of couse inevitable in the beginning, because the agents are so weak and the body armors non-existant), so don't need a reserve of 30-40+ weak rookies in the first place. I've personally been well satisfied with 30-40 agents in the primary base plus some (and dogs) in others. There are a LOT of easy-ish missions, where you fill at least 50% of your craft with recruits in training (or dogs to be trained). Using reverse stat strings mod you can easily get a grip on which agents can still improve (except for commendations) and only send those on most missions.

From what I have seen, the most important stat you may want to look at (until you are able to screen for PST) is bravery. You require 30 for combat pilot training and 50 for TNI, and if you start with e.g. 10, the agent will need to get wounded or panic a couple of times in missions to be able to progress. If you want to maximise the survivability of rookies, I suppose you want stats where you can get bio-enhancement as early as possible. Melee accuracy also takes very long time to get trained so that you can go to martial arts training, which likely also in practice requires field missions. Less than 30 PST also locks you out of martial arts training.

The average to fully train is about 6 months which is fine. I don't have a ton of reserve, but I do have a decent amount (20-30 soldiers) of soldiers that can replace fallen veterans and have a similar level of performance.
Screening for bravery is a 50/50. It might make sense, but bravery is actually really trivial to train now due to mission auras. Just let them run out of sanity.
PST is fine. Low initial reactions are also really hard to train, so they make a good filtering candidate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 09:31:44 am
You might want to read through the tips and tricks thread, which includes a huge number of small advice as well as some strategic tips: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8199.0.html

Manors have a very small impact on your income (monthly score -3 to -5) so that's irrelevant. The worst thing is when they upgrade to tier-3 and have MIGs that could be faster than your craft and shoot them down. Manors generate minor cult missions in the region, but that's mostly irrelevant as well. The manors upgrade on certain schedule. After 5 months, the manor has 30 % of chance to upgrade to a greater manor and after 10 months it's 100 %. The same upgrade chances from greater to the greatest manor. The greatest manors have 10 % chance to upgrade to hybrid embassies after 6 months. Later in the game, the manors might also spawn directly as tier2 or tier3

It's definitely not irrelevant. The -3 and -5 are applied daily, so manors actually incur -90 for tier 1, -120 for tier 2, -150 for tier 3 monthly each.
This accumulates quickly if you have many of them, which is the case eventually. My last run died to essentially manor overrun, I had 11 by October 1998. They also produce many cult infiltration missions, which are just annoying to respond to because they are produced very often and yet have considerable ignore penalty as well (-150).


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 05, 2023, 09:33:26 am
The average to fully train is about 6 months which is fine. I don't have a ton of reserve, but I do have a decent amount (20-30 soldiers) of soldiers that can replace fallen veterans and have a similar level of performance.

Because the gym-max stats are so much weaker than stat caps (+transformations), I partially disagree that they could replace the veterans. I suppose fully Gym-trained agents are acceptable for scouting, breaching and other such roles. maybe they can also throw a grenade or two (though the weak strength really hinders the range). But at least my playstyle  involves using heavily various sniper rifles, whose accuracy and damage depend heavily on FA - and you really need at least about 90 to be able to use them moderately well (snipers have the benefit of armor penetration so they can hurt essentially any enemy, in contrast to many other weapons). For that at least gymrats are useless and no replacement for real veterans.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 09:43:13 am
Oh, I don't use them freshly gymmed, I apply transforms AFTER the training. Naturally this involves rushing Gun Kata, A fully trained Gun Kata-ed soldier thus ends up with 80 FA. 80 FA is still not good enough for sniper rifles, but I was using SVD this whole game all the way to 1999 to great effect and SVD with 80 FA is strong enough for the majority of pre-1999. Accurate rifles also work, though I don't like their inconsistency damage-wise.

With TNI, we're getting 90 FA, the regular stat cap.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 05, 2023, 11:11:04 am
@Chuckebaby: doing whatever I can to explain the relations between transformations and their conditions, but we're working with limited space, sorry. And even if there was more, it would be an even bigger info dump...

Manors have a very small impact on your income (monthly score -3 to -5)

It's daily, not monthly. (Still not a disaster, unless you have like 15 bug manors at once.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 05, 2023, 11:19:32 am
...someone playing this thing first time around, they aint going to put this together.

And if your answer is tech blurbs mention this. There are boat loads of tech tree info on transformations. Can't expect to remember all of them...
A first-time player who cannot figure it out and does not look at the (at most two) Pedia articles that say some sort of pre-existing modification is required before installing a specific cybernetic implant is doing it to themselves. No amount of extra explanation is going to help people who refuse to take a hint in the first place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Commendations are applied last. Flat stat changes first. Bonuses before that.
Akshully... :D There is no real order. What happens is this: there are basically two caps: the total stat cap and the training cap, which is usually but not always lower (basic agents and reactions, for example). You can no longer get stats from training when you hit the training cap, but combat gains and 'flat' bonuses from transformations work up to the total cap.

And then there are essentialy two types of bonuses to your basic, capped stat value: soldier bonuses, which come from commendations and transformations, and armour bonuses. Neither is really limited, they are independent of each other and the basic, capped stat value, so there is no particular order. The only thing that might lower your theoretical end value is having different commendations/transformations with the same exact bonus. Which I think only happens with the "Master of..." and "Bane of..." commendations right now. Having the exact same level of mastery in two or more weapons gives you the bonus for only one of them. However, different levels of bonuses still stack.

So you essentially have three values that are added together, and it doesn't matter in which order. The only thing you can sorta game and that isn't 100% deterministic is getting your very last combat stat gain that goes over the cap. This is not reduced to the cap after the fact, and since it can range from 1 to 6, your agents can end up at 0-5 points beyond their nominal maximal stat value. Transformations that provide a 'fill-up' stop exactly at the cap, so are a bit less efficient than combat training.

You can see your total bonus stats in the '+' menu when looking an agent's info screen back at the base, and pressing a trigger button.

The problem is that it's not entirely clear if I can apply transforms to eligible rookies immediately with no net loss of stat gains produced by them or not.
As long as you don't care about the potential 5-point extra gain from combat, yes. Do note that getting the full 5 points does require you to do some moderately intensive training in the field, and it only applies to 'primary' stats like firing/throwing/melee/psi.

On the flipside, 'flat' transformation boosts are not subject to diminishing gains, so are a quick way to 'top up' an agent.

...this requires me to actually send them out to missions like manors or something...
After some time, certain missions essentially become training missions where you can just let your troops blast away at the enemy and gain stats. Zombies after you get good shotguns and more than two guys in a car, and also many of the melee-only cryptids, for example. Manors and the like a certainly not training missions.

But, as psavola said, this degree of gym training is really nor very efficient. It's better to combine it with field training by sending rookies out on milk runs. Unless you have massive amounts of newbies in training, and just pull replacements from them, as I've seen some people do. Training 200 agents by hand is a real pain. :'(



...the agent will need to get wounded or panic a couple of times in missions to be able to progress.
Or use pepper spray on relatively harmless or unconscious enemies. Protip: you can stack snoozing baddies on top of each other for massive gains from AoE weapons. Surfboards have even better gains, but are more risky and you can't use sleeping enemies.

Low initial reactions are also really hard to train, so they make a good filtering candidate.
Pepper spray works for reactions, too. :) And reactions is a stat that doesn't have a lower training cap.

Just let them run out of sanity.
Isn't sanity kinda slow to recover and lack of sanity a pain to deal with during actual missions? I definitely remember it being that way before.

Naturally this involves rushing Gun Kata...
I assume Psiclones are more plentiful now? I used to hoard them, since there are several things you need them for (Gun Kata x number of soldiers and Skulljacks, mainly) and Solarius was stingier with the rewards a while ago.

With TNI, we're getting 90 FA, the regular stat cap.
Veterans can also get TNI, probably other enhancements as well, and have commendations coming out of their ears, so they're usually still quite a bit better than that. But 90 is indeed passable enough for everyone who's not a sniper.



The greatest manors have 10 % chance to upgrade to hybrid embassies after 6 months.
Not only, depends on who owns the manor. Hybrid embassies are the most common, yes.

At this point of the game, most of your funding comes from the council and its gradual upgrades keep you afloat. The second main source of income are the money briefcases and money bags...
Selling some random stuff that accumulates can earn not totally irrelevant amounts of money, too. Alien communicators, dead zombie parasites, some corpses, secret files, etc.

It's definitely not irrelevant. The -3 and -5 are applied daily, so manors actually incur -90 for tier 1, -120 for tier 2, -150 for tier 3 monthly each.
This accumulates quickly if you have many of them, which is the case eventually. My last run died to essentially manor overrun, I had 11 by October 1998. They also produce many cult infiltration missions, which are just annoying to respond to because they are produced very often and yet have considerable ignore penalty as well (-150).
They're largely irrelevant as long as you manage to regularly prune the manors, and are generally doing well with score. But if it starts to spiral out of control, it can get pretty bad, as you say. I think there have been people with 20+ before.



15 bug manors at once
Bug manors? Are the antmen finally invading now? :o :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 05, 2023, 12:05:04 pm
Ok I just found a manor #6, so I am unknowing where #2 and #5 is 😂

 Does the medium convoys moving around create manors ? It says it's doing cult infiltration

I didjt bother buying the attack helicopter but perhaps I should for shooting those

And ok, thanks for advice , this alien stuff will fund a lot
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 12:19:08 pm
After some time, certain missions essentially become training missions where you can just let your troops blast away at the enemy and gain stats. Zombies after you get good shotguns and more than two guys in a car, and also many of the melee-only cryptids, for example. Manors and the like a certainly not training missions.

They essentially are after Promo 3 and even to some extent before, though it wildly varies which are the better option. I was using Black Lotus manors because they have the shittiest weapons overall (so least wounds), but assassins are a real problem and need special care. Church of Dagon is significantly more dangerous due to Gillmen and incendiary grenades. EXALT has wound-galore weapons, tons of nades and grenade launchers, so dangerous, but not outright Gillmen-tier deadly. Red Dawn is mid, but dynamite is a problem as are armored cars.
But overall manors are generally best for training simply because the map is predictable and is made in such a way that you can set up a line of soldiers to reaction fire at stuff with impunity. It's just a matter of bailing early. Past Promo 3, Gas Nades and Tactical Grenade Launcher becomes extremely powerful for manor maps specifically because it's an open map with many enemies, so perfect for bombardment.

Manors are great because they do not run out and are available at all times.

As long as you don't care about the potential 5-point extra gain from combat, yes. Do note that getting the full 5 points does require you to do some moderately intensive training in the field, and it only applies to 'primary' stats like firing/throwing/melee/psi.
See, the question was about applying transforms before finishing gym training. If we ignore required stats for transforms, consider the following:
I can gun kata a soldier with 50 FA and get 65 FA [+10, +5]. Now, the gym training of this soldier will no longer increase FA.
If I wait until gym increases this soldier's FA to 65, I can gun kata this soldier and get 80 FA. The overall result is better.

That was the question: whether this really happens. If I gun kata a guy that had 50 FA, will the gym still increase their FA to 65 as if there was no gun kata or not.

Pepper spray works for reactions, too. :) And reactions is a stat that doesn't have a lower training cap.
It doesn't have a cap in general because reactions cannot be gym-trained.

Isn't sanity kinda slow to recover and lack of sanity a pain to deal with during actual missions? I definitely remember it being that way before.
It is slow, but we're doing it on rookies that don't engage in regular missions until they're done. Low sanity is even better for that matter since you need to wait fewer turns for panic checks to start occuring, thus bravery training.
You _do_ need some way to prevent them from exiting the transport though. An outrunner would work, but enemies are an issue of their own.

I assume Psiclones are more plentiful now? I used to hoard them, since there are several things you need them for (Gun Kata x number of soldiers and Skulljacks, mainly) and Solarius was stingier with the rewards a while ago.
They're not plentiful in the slightest, but you do accumulate them. There is no longer a good reason to sell them.

Veterans can also get TNI, probably other enhancements as well, and have commendations coming out of their ears, so they're usually still quite a bit better than that. But 90 is indeed passable enough for everyone who's not a sniper.
TNI doesn't do any flat changes, so it's wasteful to use it on somebody below the stat cap, but if you wanted, you could do it.
Also TNI is wasteful because you probably will only get it past Promo 3 by which point Combat Pilot Training already will allow you to reach 90 stat cap on rookies after bravery and reaction training or filtering is done.


They're largely irrelevant as long as you manage to regularly prune the manors, and are generally doing well with score. But if it starts to spiral out of control, it can get pretty bad, as you say. I think there have been people with 20+ before.
Manors are tricky the first time to deal with. They become largely irrelevant later though, but by then, if you haven't gone for them, you probably have a ton of them around.

But, as psavola said, this degree of gym training is really nor very efficient. It's better to combine it with field training by sending rookies out on milk runs. Unless you have massive amounts of newbies in training, and just pull replacements from them, as I've seen some people do. Training 200 agents by hand is a real pain. :'(
Well, the pool is not that massive, but it's still 30 or so rookies to babysit. Mass training is a chore because even though armor allows you to mostly ignore cultists in manors or whatever, it's still not the kind of mission you want to let Brutal AI autopilot or something to do.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 12:20:42 pm
Ok I just found a manor #6, so I am unknowing where #2 and #5 is 😂

 Does the medium convoys moving around create manors ? It says it's doing cult infiltration

I didjt bother buying the attack helicopter but perhaps I should for shooting those

And ok, thanks for advice , this alien stuff will fund a lot
The easiest way to determine where manors are is to check "Alien activity" graph. Manors increase the line there by a small value every day. Once you determine the region, you just need to send out a car to the country and have it patrol every city as manors can only spawn within cities.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 05, 2023, 12:59:38 pm
Bug manors? Are the antmen finally invading now? :o :P

(https://i.imgur.com/sQ1Mlks.jpg)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 05, 2023, 01:08:38 pm
;D @ Solarius Bugarius.

Ok I just found a manor #6, so I am unknowing where #2 and #5 is
Have an interceptable craft (so no cars or vans, and either fast or something you don't mind losing) hit each city you see. For baby manors that have launched recently, you can also use cars and patrol each city, but that takes much longer. Both are slow and tedious, but if you want to get at the manors, that's the in-game method.

Personally, I don't have the patience for this, and just make a waypoint and then just copy over a manor's coordinates in the save.

Does the medium convoys moving around create manors ?
No, manors just spout on their own. They're not taking over, merely infiltrating the society, sort of, by spreading their cult's influence.

They essentially are after Promo 3 and even to some extent before, though it wildly varies which are the better option.
A mission that can be used for training is not a training mission. If it meaningfully risks your agents, it's a gamble, not training.

Granted, the repeatable nature of manors does skew this perspective quite a bit.

As you say yourself, pretty much every cult has something that's at least a bit dangerous, and what kind of map and cover you get when assaulting a manor can vary. Never mind high-tier manors that have more and more dangerous cultists in addition to the reinforcements.

I mean, if you just go in and fire a few mortar rounds, throw some 'nades, shoot everyone close by, then leave, it kinda works. It's also gamey and you're stuck doing training all over while the rest of the game mostly just stands still. The worse sort of grind, really.

But overall manors are generally best for training simply because the map is predictable and is made in such a way that you can set up a line of soldiers to reaction fire at stuff with impunity.
Er, I've seen people claim the opposite, that the map can be either very easy or kinda hard, and my own experience supports that. You can have essentially no cover and several enemies staring at you on turn one, or massive outlying buildings between you and the manor proper.

I can gun kata a soldier with 50 FA and get 65 FA [+10, +5]. Now, the gym training of this soldier will no longer increase FA.
If I wait until gym increases this soldier's FA to 65, I can gun kata this soldier and get 80 FA. The overall result is better.
Since the +5 is 'bonus', the above is not quite true. You can still train until 65+5, not 60+5.

And, yes, boosting after training is certainly one way to do it, but waiting until gym max IMO takes longer than it's worth. Better to transform at 60 FA and get to 70, then rely on field experience or another transformation to make up for the 5 'lost' points.

So while the numbers are bigger, you also take considerably longer to achieve those numbers.

That was the question: whether this really happens. If I gun kata a guy that had 50 FA, will the gym still increase their FA to 65 as if there was no gun kata or not.
It will increase them to 65, but not as if there was no Gun Kata, since Gun Kata 'takes away' 10 of the remaining 15 possible trainable points.

It doesn't have a cap in general because reactions cannot be gym-trained.
Yeah, my bad, forgot that. :-[

It is slow, but we're doing it on rookies that don't engage in regular missions until they're done.
Seems kinda tedious to me, even compared to macing sleeping enemies. But I've never tried training rookies en mass that way, so what do I know.

TNI doesn't do any flat changes, so it's wasteful to use it on somebody below the stat cap, but if you wanted, you could do it.
Depends on whether you have spares and whether the rookies actually use that 90 accuracy for anything meaningful. I take any advantage I can get for my regular troopers, inefficiency across the entire agent pool be damned. It's the tip of the spear that needs to be sharp.

Manors are tricky the first time to deal with. They become largely irrelevant later though...
That's assuming you ever get to the 'later' stage and the manors don't just kill your baby air game in the crib and eat all your score. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: DeltaEpsilon on September 05, 2023, 01:53:56 pm
but waiting until gym max IMO takes longer than it's worth

It certainly does. I did the calculations, for FA the last two points takes 3 months on average, so it might be best to just abort training once you reach that point.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/356647134264557570/1148571016893829220/image.png)

where left is starting FA and right is mean amount of days to reach trained state.

With the costs involved,
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/356647134264557570/1148571451155296256/image.png)
if I want to target FA, filtering at 59 is the best option to receive the agent as quickly as possible at the least cost.

Strength, however, is another stat to consider, but thankfully it is trivially bio-enhanceable to a reasonable degree.

Depends on whether you have spares and whether the rookies actually use that 90 accuracy for anything meaningful. I take any advantage I can get for my regular troopers, inefficiency across the entire agent pool be damned. It's the tip of the spear that needs to be sharp.
I guess that comes down to playstyle. I specialize my units very little and want to have baseline of agents that can fulfill any role and can be drop-in replaced. Cancer-type gameplay, LOL. Having high accuracy across the board is important because you
use weapons that have a damage bonus, not to mention actually producing more DPT by hitting more.

Seems kinda tedious to me, even compared to macing sleeping enemies. But I've never tried training rookies en mass that way, so what do I know.
It IS tedious, which is why I don't do it, instead just filtering at hire stage, but you could do it if you wanted.

Quote
So while the numbers are bigger, you also take considerably longer to achieve those numbers.
That's sort of the reasoning behind high reserve capacity: you need that buffer to have enough agents to replace lost units over the time a fresh rookie completes its training.
Depending on how many agents you lose per 6-8 months of training, this is the reserve size you want to have. 200 is ridiculous unless you lose 30 agents a month.

Er, I've seen people claim the opposite, that the map can be either very easy or kinda hard, and my own experience supports that. You can have essentially no cover and several enemies staring at you on turn one, or massive outlying buildings between you and the manor proper.
It's not super consistent, though you can reroll the map if you don't like which hand you were dealt, but losing a couple rookies during training is not the end of the world as long as the rest survive and get better. You don't even need to train them for particularly long once gym starts doing its magic since you only need like 1-2 good XP rolls. Armor helps the rest survive. Wounds are irrelevant since you're mass training anyway.
Do keep in mind that the point is not to destroy the manor or even come close to it, the point is to get 11 action points pretty much and abort he mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 05, 2023, 07:45:02 pm
I assume Psiclones are more plentiful now? I used to hoard them, since there are several things you need them for (Gun Kata x number of soldiers and Skulljacks, mainly) and Solarius was stingier with the rewards a while ago.

Speaking of Gun Kata vs Skulljack. What is actually Skulljack useful for? It seemed rather useless (LOS panic or MC), though I suppose you could use it to train PSK and rookies' secondary stats. Based on Juku's comments, I also skipped Gun Kata and have sold out all the Psiclones. I suppose I'll have to start doing Gun Katas from now on, given that the boost of 10/15 FA, 5 RE seems like a good tradeoff for 10 sanity.

Wrt earlier discussion, I suppose I could see some benefit of going to manors repeatedly for training purposes, to just shoot the visible enemies on turn 1, then abort immediately. Then there would be no risk of grenades, you'll just have to watch out for grenade launchers. This would be a very similar technique as some used for TFTD: go for the alien base, see if there is a visible alien, everyone PSI-amps it, then you exit on turn 1. Repeat ad infinitum, and fairly soon you have fully maxed out secondary stats and as a bonus some PSK.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 05, 2023, 09:01:23 pm
Skulljacks are melee-range, not just LoS. :( They do come a lot earlier than Psi-Amps, and don't require psi-training to use. If you get a good psi-strength agent or few, then a mind puppet is always useful. Since they're hard to control outside close range, I use them as breachers going through doors or around corners to take the first shots, or just leave them around as bullet magnets so my agents aren't. This is more useful in cramped urban and indoor missions and nearly useless in open ground, though.

Gun Kata only gives 5 FA at the cost of 10 sanity in the long run, which is the other reason I never used them. Because there were never enough for rookies, and they were not that useful for veterans. The +10 and +5 reactions 'only' speed up training.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 05, 2023, 10:33:02 pm
Quote from: Juku121
A first-time player who cannot figure it out and does not look at the (at most two) Pedia articles that say some sort of pre-existing modification is required before installing a specific cybernetic implant is doing it to themselves. No amount of extra explanation is going to help people who refuse to take a hint in the first place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



I think if this "With subdermal plating and artificial cortex extensions" is supposed to mean.."Installing Tactical Neural Implant"

Just wish the documentation was a bit more clear for newer users so they wouldn't have to go through the long way as I did.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 06, 2023, 12:51:25 am
I think that line refers to the Kyberos enhancements themselves, and the TNI requirement is indeed opaque. I was talking about the follow-up implants, where one pedia entry explicitly says that these are only for Kyberi, and the others refer to 'cortex implant', 'central unit' and 'master device'.

Although these entries are right next to the TNI, so they kinda do hint at that. But some more clarity for the Kyberis transformation itself wouldn't go amiss. The cyborg chick can afford to suffer from a few more lines of exposition before becoming excessively obscured.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 06, 2023, 10:10:45 am
How to destroy Lobsters? Firearms don't help...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 06, 2023, 10:18:56 am
How to destroy Lobsters? Firearms don't help...

They are very vulnerable to CHOKE (e.g. gas grenades), so that's a reliable and and easy way if you came across them on land. They are also vulnerable to ELECTRIC and WARP, and CUTTING is also ok. PSI is also good, because the weapons usually ignore armor. So, in underwater the options are more limited, but prodding with a stun rod or blasting with a ghost weapon would be fine, as well as a good strike with a battle-axe or katana.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 06, 2023, 11:03:50 am
How to destroy Lobsters?
The noose. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: krautbernd on September 06, 2023, 04:32:31 pm
How to destroy Lobsters? Firearms don't help...
Fire arms on the other hand...

It's called the lobster special down at the cafeteria.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2023, 05:19:57 pm
How to destroy Lobsters? Firearms don't help...
Pepper spray
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 06, 2023, 05:25:30 pm
Thanks for the advice.
Japanese swords and other cutlery helped)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 06, 2023, 06:56:18 pm
I think that line refers to the Kyberos enhancements themselves, and the TNI requirement is indeed opaque. I was talking about the follow-up implants, where one pedia entry explicitly says that these are only for Kyberi, and the others refer to 'cortex implant', 'central unit' and 'master device'.

Although these entries are right next to the TNI, so they kinda do hint at that. But some more clarity for the Kyberis transformation itself wouldn't go amiss. The cyborg chick can afford to suffer from a few more lines of exposition before becoming excessively obscured.

Totally agreed with the cybernetic upgrades being clear in pedia. It was just getting to that point that tripped me up some.
Thanks for your input Juku. You are one of the more enjoyable people here and when ever I have a problem, your always first to help.
I appreciate it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 06, 2023, 11:54:23 pm
I've been doing another playthrough recently and it's been a long time since my last one, lots of interesting stuff since 2.0!

I do have some qeustions though:

Why is all cults contained no longer a promo 3 requisite? What's now the best way to go for it?

Cult mansions, how do they work and will they still spawn once the associated cult is countained?



Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 07, 2023, 06:27:11 am
I don't think all cults getting destroyed was ever a thing, except in my long-dead overhaul of 0.4-ish. At some point in 0.8.7 or so Alien Origins were replaced with an extended list of possible alternatives, but that's about it.

Promo III is mostly the same: get Promo I, get all your NPC advisors, kill one cult (Dagon is probably easiest, or maybe BL if you have good anti-ninja techniques), and discover something related to one of the more extraterrestrial factions. Interrogating a Gillman Deep One is what I usually do, but it kinda depends on what the game throws at you and how good you are at getting the right stuff out of it, especially captives.



Mansions spawn in the cities on the globe as time goes by, upgrade periodically, eat some score each month and spam hunter-killers at your non-civilian craft. And are a moderately difficult mission to kill, easier when they're young and harder when they're big and old. And the HKs also get much worse over time. Can be cheesed like alien bases used to be, for XP and perhaps a bit of loot.

Killing the cult early enough is the primary way of handling them. Existing manors will stick around and continue being a pain (or XP farm :) ), but once the head honchos are gone, no new manors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on September 08, 2023, 09:07:20 am
And what is the essence of the introduction of the Portable Laser Cannon? I received it six months after the invasion, and in fact it is a hi-end weapon. It breaks ethereals, sectopods, even the sky, even Allah. The game has dramatically lost 90% of the challenge and more than half of the interest. In the good old days, I so coveted turbolasers and plasma. Now I have no idea why they are needed at all. Exaggerated, but that's exactly how it is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 12, 2023, 01:25:53 am
Hey does night ops/liquidator armor help with seeing ninjas? Just curious , thinking maybe it's like infrared

Was thinking maybe I should send a few to black lotus HQ

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Alex_D on September 12, 2023, 03:07:08 am
Hey does night ops/liquidator armor help with seeing ninjas? Just curious , thinking maybe it's like infrared
I don't think those armors have the counter for the Ninja Assassin camouflage values. The best bet is to use motion scanners, dogs (if expendable) or position markers (expendable). In addition, use flamethrowers liberally so to break the enemy unit path-finding system, creating choke points in the process.

Was thinking maybe I should send a few to black lotus HQ
I haven't played XCF in a while, but I think this part hasn't changed. So, for the BL HQ get armor that can tank the ninja assassin throwing weapons. Or be ready for mass casualties (injuries or KIAs).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 12, 2023, 08:42:05 am
I am building some motion scanners too. Yea usually I throw incendiary grenades all over and try to tunnel them or at least find safer paths to advance

Is bio exo suit good against the knives? I think i saw it reduced cutting damage

I think leather coats reduces cutting too but has low armor so I assume the low armor value negates most benefit

Actually it even appears bio exo suit has same night vision properties as night ops
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 12, 2023, 09:06:14 am
Bio-Exo Suit is relatively early armor that has good protection against CUTTING. Heavy tactical suit is roughly as good, but also better against other damage types. I

What you need depends on the point when you do the HQ mission and which kind of tactic you employ (I strongly encourage not going out to wander around for at least 20 turns, if not more).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 12, 2023, 09:47:17 am
Bio-Exo has other resistances that allow you to play with gas/incendiary grenades and similar stuff. As mentioned, it also has some night vision, plus it's a bit better than the tac suit against really high damage, like sword strikes. Less so vs guns and regular 'nades, of course. And if a ninja tries to backstab you, surprise!, your back armour is stronger. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 12, 2023, 10:05:57 am
Ok ill try them out !

Btw I terminated dagon cult, but I never captured a deep one. Will this make it very difficult to ever find another? I'd like to research underwater communities but can't without deep one

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on September 12, 2023, 10:36:13 am
Ok ill try them out !

Btw I terminated dagon cult, but I never captured a deep one. Will this make it very difficult to ever find another? I'd like to research underwater communities but can't without deep one

No worries, they have their own missions.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 12, 2023, 10:45:28 am
If you got a live Sorcerer and interrogated him, you should have another research topic to progress the T'leth arc.

If not, I think there is one low-chance mission that might allow you to progress further and get back to capturing underwater creepies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 12, 2023, 01:30:18 pm
Do I need a "durathread manufacturing" item for anything after its researched ? I want to sell if for 400k but afraid it must be useful to something in workshop?

Btw when selling items tab is there anyway to bring up weapon stats rather than research tab when middle click. I have trouble remembering names of guns , to know which ones I actually use or not
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 12, 2023, 02:00:01 pm
No, short of using it to adorn your Command Bunker.

Most items can be right-clicked when selling to show possible manufacturing uses.

Pedia when selling is CTRL+MMB, assuming you do have the thing researched. There was some talk of unifying the MMB behaviour a while back, don't know what's the current status of that.

In my experience, memory issues can largely be alleviated by auto-selling all the useless crap. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 14, 2023, 03:14:08 am
That ctrl mmc has been a lifesaver thank you!

By the way, I'd like some general advice. I never played original xcom very much , so don't know how to do air combat. I just got the CF-105 Arrow, and it let's me equip it with 1 cannon but I'm not authorized for missiles. All its use for now is to shoot at cars from manors lol

Is the MIG the first actual fighter? Once I have it, I assume it's best to have 1 cannon and 1 missile? I assume that route in tech tree is main way to get the first missile

Is aggressive vs cautious approach just... if the enemy has long range weapons do aggressive in order to get close enough to fire quickly? But if they have short range just do cautious ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 14, 2023, 03:19:31 am
One other thing, on the first ghost mission,

I threw about 12 grenades on the demonic circle but still couldn't get the mission to end, is there sone other concealing Explosive I'm supposed to be bringing?

I'm bringing a ton of tasers because I'm not sire what else works

I saw on a zombie mission a priest had a cross that could do psi damage but I didnt knock him out in time to grab it😢 it wpuld have been thematic to have my 99 psi guy use a cross on the ghosts ! Although I don't know how they do against psi, and idk if it counts as "concealable"




Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 14, 2023, 07:38:58 am
The first real interceptor is, well, the Interceptor. MiG might work against cultists, but those have similar-tier craft themselves after a while. If not even better than yours, actually. You also need Avalanches / Heavy Stingrays to actually make the craft work as it should and not be a glorified cannon platform.

Unlike the original, missile and cannon slots (and light vs heavy missile, and laser, and extra equipment ...) are 'hardcoded' to be different. So no changing between dual cannons and dual Avalanches any more. :(

Missile research should be pretty self-evident.

The big and largely undocumented difference between aggressive and cautious (and standard) is that your fire rate goes up the more aggressive your stance is. So it's usually better to be aggressive, to minimise damage and the chance that the enemy craft escapes.

If you outrange the enemy, cautious might be usable. That of course assumes you also either out-speed the other party, or pack enough firepower to shoot it down before it escapes. Maybe tractor it, but that's lategame tech.

Standard mode is mostly for when both/most/all your weapons outrange the enemy, cautious is when only your best one does.


As to the ghost missions, haven't played them myself. But I recall that one of them had one enemy hidden deep underground, so you either need to dig down, or just grab whatever you came for and bail. I imagine the latter is the intended course of action.

In addition to tasers. lasers looted from MiBs and cultist ectoplasm weapons should also work against ghosts.


Crosses don't persist post-mission, since they're powered by (the residue) of that priest's faith. :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Vakrug on September 14, 2023, 10:44:25 am
I just got the CF-105 Arrow. All its use for now is to shoot at cars from manors.
It's main purpose is shooting down Syndicate's Dragonflies.
I threw about 12 grenades on the demonic circle but still couldn't get the mission to end.
Never tried to destroy that circle myself (easier to just stun all ghosts with tazers), but as far as I know you need incendiary grenades.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on September 14, 2023, 07:45:37 pm
Bad advice. Best of all, a crowd of people with electric clubs, or cold weapons with high damage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 14, 2023, 08:00:00 pm
Nah, ghosts take a lot less damage from cutting than from electricity or lasers. I mean, melee scales like a MF in this mod, but even then, it's at best similar damage. I'll take some sort of stun stick over a sword against ghosts, thank you.


Spirit critters do have some susceptibility to being mobbed, that is true. But tasers and lasers work fine at least against the glowy ghosts, and don't suffer from melee dodge penalties.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 14, 2023, 08:33:27 pm
In the first ghost mission (Asylum Apparitions) the only annoying thing is that you have to guard and/or pile up the bug-eye ghosts after stunning them. Otherwise they wake up and wander around and you'll never figure out where the last enemies still are.

Almost all the ghosts in the mod are mostly harmless, and you may want to intentionally use lousy weapons against them for training purposes (for example, shoot with regular weapons for FA and reactions, or use knives instead of ELECTRIC or grenades) after you have dealt with the real threats. The main exception are the poltergeists. Ancient sea ghosts can also hurt you.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on September 15, 2023, 12:05:43 am
Nah, ghosts take a lot less damage from cutting than from electricity or lasers. I mean, melee scales like a MF in this mod, but even then, it's at best similar damage. I'll take some sort of stun stick over a sword against ghosts, thank you.


Spirit critters do have some susceptibility to being mobbed, that is true. But tasers and lasers work fine at least against the glowy ghosts, and don't suffer from melee dodge penalties.
a huge advantage of cutting is that ghosts die from it and do not rise again.
But all my advice should be passed through the prism of Ironman difficulty. With downloads, you can go to a mental hospital and into one agent by picking up something from a stunned neutral.

My personal experience shows that incendiary grenades are very not effective in this mission. Either electric clubs or cutting weapons with high damage are best choice. And lasers are cool, of course, but how to get them there?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 15, 2023, 12:48:11 am
Ok thanks all for advice, I ended up just stunning them all, and stunned a priest to use a cross on some them too  ;D

Another question: in the Vincent Decker mission I managed to capture 2 MIB scientists and 1 MIB enforcer , but I took heavy losses

It is mid 1998, im wondering without spoiling too much, would it be a mistake to try to research MIB tree ans possibly hit "effects game progression" for some them? Or are these techs abd presumably missions it might unlock meant for more end game period  , with no real benefit to earlier game

(Did my soldiers die in vain?)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 15, 2023, 04:20:53 am
"ALEAYS WATCH THE SKIES"

I have this "technology" but I don't remember seeing what it said. But I also can't seem to find it in my ufopedia

Is there a way to view it or what is it's purpose? Or where can i find it again
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 15, 2023, 05:50:09 am
"ALEAYS WATCH THE SKIES"

I have this "technology" but I don't remember seeing what it said. But I also can't seem to find it in my ufopedia

Is there a way to view it or what is it's purpose? Or where can i find it again

It has no entry and serves no purpose at all (except open up a locked extra staff message for interrogation).

Another question: in the Vincent Decker mission I managed to capture 2 MIB scientists and 1 MIB enforcer , but I took heavy losses

It is mid 1998, im wondering without spoiling too much, would it be a mistake to try to research MIB tree ans possibly hit "effects game progression" for some them? Or are these techs abd presumably missions it might unlock meant for more end game period  , with no real benefit to earlier game

In mid-1998, it should be OK to research the MIB tree. Personally I have always delayed it quite a bit, because interrogating MIBs is research-wise very expensive and I've wanted to get most of the topics from cheaper sources.

Some better MIBs are a good source for, for example, scavenging better armors that you would usually not have access to at that point. It helps to have ghost-arc tech to be able to stun them comfortably.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 15, 2023, 08:39:27 am
a huge advantage of cutting is that ghosts die from it and do not rise again.
While it's indeed a mild advantage, ghosts don't have any special recovery powers, so just double-tase them if you can't complete the mission quickly enough.

My personal experience shows that incendiary grenades are very not effective in this mission.
That's true, although they're not totally useless (20% damage still goes through). But ghosts are fearless, so the big advantage of incendiaries is gone.

And lasers are cool, of course, but how to get them there?
MiB, depending on luck. The David Vincent mission, perhaps?



Did my soldiers die in vain?
Of course not! Khorne does not discriminate, all deaths are good deaths!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Vakrug on September 15, 2023, 10:48:00 am
My personal experience shows that incendiary grenades are very not effective in this mission.
That's true, although they're not totally useless (20% damage still goes through). But ghosts are fearless, so the big advantage of incendiaries is gone.
The question was how to deal with the demonic circle, not ghosts!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 15, 2023, 12:56:05 pm
Well, if that's the real question, I've always killed all the ghosts in the Asylum, myself. But setting the summoning circle on fire for a few turns should work, too, just tested and two turns of being on fire was enough to trigger the message.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on September 15, 2023, 11:58:24 pm
The question was how to deal with the demonic circle, not ghosts!
Wow. Is there still some kind of demonic circle with a trigger?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 16, 2023, 11:53:41 pm
My second playthrough on this latest version seemed to be much more fluent than my first time around.
This second time (on Experienced), the research was laid out very well.
In earlier versions, you could research "Cydonia" and have no means to begin the mission yet.

This past run, that research was not available until I completed and researched the "Main core colony" and catching the
GrandMaster Ethereal
.

That seems like that is the way it should be.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 20, 2023, 02:45:57 pm
It is August 1998 but I do not have promotion III

I cant find a shambler for that route, and unsure what a shambler is,

I havjt seen a deep one since destroying dagon cult

The 2 alien missions I had I didjt have alien containment set up yet, so no interrogated saucer aliens yet

Cyberweb I have a mystek researched and am beginning the council friendly enemy tree, and researching the cyber web plans. Although fighting around another dimension sounds very difficult so I am skeptical of completing this for promotion III

is there anything I can do to help get more missions for any of the 4 routes, the pieces I mentioned are the only research I'm missing to complete the prerequisites
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 20, 2023, 03:55:36 pm
A Shambler is a big white furry critter. If you haven't caught one yet, it's a crapshoot to get them to show up again. Dr. Alpha's island is a sort of safety valve since it has most if not all types of cryptids present, but people tend to waste their chances there and just shoot everything that moves.


You did get a live Sorcerer, right? Research the follow-up topic that this guy unlocked, otherwise getting a live Gillman Deep One is hard. But even then, it ups your chances from 10% to 28% per month to get a relevant mission. Not capturing a live Deep One when they were plentiful was a mistake.


Aliens will become more frequent in 1999, but the entire problem with that is you want Promo III to prepare for them, not the other way around. You may still manage, since ETs are probably the most guaranteed to show up among the four paths to Promo III, now that you've lost easy access to the others. And there are small, easy pickings among the UFOs.


The relevant stage of Cyberweb is probably too hard to battle through without Promo III.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 21, 2023, 08:22:34 am
I have all the dagon sorcerer follow-ups completed, I assume you mean messengers of dagon? It says for that will attempt to catch these messengers on land (although I have this completed for quite some time, not seen a mission like this yet)

Yes it was pretty foolish, I have every other creature of dagon cult researched thoroughly,  I even did the HQ twice, but it slipped my mind to get a deep one I kinda assumed there would be a lot of "deep ones attack village" mission that i remember from Lewis and Ben playthrough but not seen any yet , so i didnt worry so much
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 22, 2023, 03:41:16 am
Is there a way to know which aliens, or if hybrids, can see through smoke?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 22, 2023, 04:31:43 am
Is there a way to know which aliens, or if hybrids, can see through smoke?

Look for "heatVision" (percentage) in the rulesets or the wiki. psiVision also indirectly leads to the same I think. You'll find all these definions in armors_XCOMFILES.rul.

Various aliens have some degree of either. Hybrids only have psiVision 3, i.e. not very much.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 22, 2023, 06:10:52 am
does that mean, its only lookable by going to the wiki website, or by looking at files for the game? (that is to say, is it listed nowhere in-game)

Also, I researched the staff of heart grip and using staff of heart grip, but I can only throw it, is there a different button I am supposed to be using to use it?

Is it still really good against those one giant alien monsters with the huge armor?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 22, 2023, 06:58:58 am
does that mean, its only lookable by going to the wiki website, or by looking at files for the game? (that is to say, is it listed nowhere in-game)

The information is not available in-game.

Quote
Also, I researched the staff of heart grip and using staff of heart grip, but I can only throw it, is there a different button I am supposed to be using to use it?

Is it still really good against those one giant alien monsters with the huge armor?

'Using' article says: "By trial and (often painful) error, we finally managed to uncover the secret of how to operate the Staff of Heart Grip. To use it properly, one should not think of it as a weapon, but as a delicate instrument of dark mystic arts which requires attunement and dedication. It is therefore only suitable for trained psions.". Using it for anything other than throwing requires PSI skill, which you apparently don't have yet.

It ignores armor and causes BIO damage, so I guess in the right hands (good PSI strength and skill) it could be useful in some contexts. I've not found much use for it myself, though.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 22, 2023, 08:20:24 am
Ohhhhh ok, i was assuming that was just referencing the multiplier for psi skill

At least in the playthrough , that was back In 0.9 version.. the sectopods were vulnerable to the staff of heart grip, so it was very effective way to dispatch them from safe distance. Their highly trained+talented psi guys could kill a sectopod with 2 hits from the staff
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 22, 2023, 09:18:19 am
I have all the dagon sorcerer follow-ups completed, I assume you mean messengers of dagon? It says for that will attempt to catch these messengers on land (although I have this completed for quite some time, not seen a mission like this yet)

...I kinda assumed there would be a lot of "deep ones attack village" mission that i remember from Lewis and Ben playthrough but not seen any yet , so i didnt worry so much
Yes, that's the 10 -> 28% per month mission I mentioned. But these are somewhat low chances, so no suprise the RNG isn't cooperating with you.

I've not found much use for it myself, though.
I've seen some people really like the armour-piercing, no-LoS damage, but that was quite a while ago.

The information is not available in-game.
Well, technically it is. But it's quite similar to looking things up on the wiki or in the game files, just without tabbing out of the game.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 22, 2023, 07:03:07 pm
At least in the playthrough , that was back In 0.9 version.. the sectopods were vulnerable to the staff of heart grip, so it was very effective way to dispatch them from safe distance. Their highly trained+talented psi guys could kill a sectopod with 2 hits from the staff

Sectopods only take 10 % damage from BIO, so I doubt that's very useful for them. Even with max PSI skill and strength the actual damage would still be puny. I suppose something has changed (probably with various damage types) in the meanwhile.

I don't think you need to worry about ways of dealing with Sectopods in a good while.

I also saw the staff used a bit when watching some B&L walkthrough. I suppose a way to inflict damage, do panic or MC without LOS could be useful in some settings, but it drains sanity rather quickly. I've found conventional weapons to be sufficient in most contexts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 23, 2023, 01:01:55 am
Thanks for replies,

Ok it must have got nerfed long ago, there was also no sanity back then lol they just had a stimmer following them around , but it seemed to make alien bases extremely easy so makes sense it got nerfed

A nice update:

I managed to get promotion 3 with cyberweb portal being taken, the cyberweb "bases" are not so bad! Their attack on a military base was more difficult. I had some newly aquired smart black ops rifles which came in handy , used motion scanners to slowly advance through , and took the portal. Now I have 3 months to research some missiles and planes


1. BTW, does psi defense (on armor) where it does the calculations for psi skill*stuff*stuff, ... does this reduce damage by psi damage such as from ghosts? Or does it only defend against psi attacks like panicking and mind control ?

(In other words, does high psi skill agents take less damage from ghosts which do psi attacks)

2. How does carapace plate work? It seems be just an item but how do I get the benefits? It doesn't seem to count as an armor,  do I just have it in backpack?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 23, 2023, 03:35:02 am
Another q:

How is the advanced intelligene center actually improvemt over original besides more scientists? Is it's purpose simply to have a building thay can have 7 scientists?

Also, I am confused if I'm supposed to build an intel center, then an advanced one? Do I destroy the old one? Do I have both? Do I go straight to building one?

It simply states each base can "only have one intelligejve center or an advanced intelligrjve center" which I take to mean you cannot have both.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 23, 2023, 06:55:09 am
(In other words, does high psi skill agents take less damage from ghosts which do psi attacks)

PSK does not reduce amount of PSI damage you take from attacks.

Quote
2. How does carapace plate work? It seems be just an item but how do I get the benefits? It doesn't seem to count as an armor,  do I just have it in backpack?

It works like a grenade and it grows on you (I think to you backpack). I never bothered with it myself, the stats seemed unimpressive.

How is the advanced intelligene center actually improvemt over original besides more scientists? Is it's purpose simply to have a building thay can have 7 scientists?

Also, I am confused if I'm supposed to build an intel center, then an advanced one? Do I destroy the old one? Do I have both? Do I go straight to building one?

It simply states each base can "only have one intelligejve center or an advanced intelligrjve center" which I take to mean you cannot have both.

Advanced Intel Center provides space for two more scientists and a better global UFO detection rate. You can build it over the regular one (= upgrade) if you want.

I have never built it myself, in my opinion the high price tag is not worth it. At the stage it's relevant it's more important to build more bases and research capacity in other ways.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 23, 2023, 09:29:15 am
It works like a grenade and it grows on you (I think to you backpack).
Yes, you carry this somewhere on you ( I think it might even work in the agent's hands, but backpack is indeed the usual place; I myself have added a dedicated vest slot for it).

Although I'm not sure it really grows on you, in any sense. :P

I've never bothered with Carapace plate myself, but the spidersilk vests are pretty nice earlier on. Maybe you can make a grenade magnet by adding carapace to something like the heavy tac suits, IDK.

I managed to get promotion 3 with cyberweb portal being taken, the cyberweb "bases" are not so bad!
Yeah, I was thinking of the extradimensional missions when I wrote 'too hard'. My bad. :-[

BTW, does psi defense (on armor) where it does the calculations for psi skill*stuff*stuff, ... does this reduce damage by psi damage such as from ghosts? Or does it only defend against psi attacks like panicking and mind control ?
Yep, as psavola said.

To expand, 'Psi defence' is not really a stat, it's a replacement formula for vanilla's PST + PSK/5.

It doesn't work on psi damage, since the latter is basically just the name of a damage type. Some enemies might have both better psi defence and high psi resistance, but this is done manually.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on September 23, 2023, 09:49:08 am
Ok thanks for replies,

Does anyone know any ways to improve performance? I'm on pretty junk laptop but, for example Dr. ALPHA map, it takes a longggg time ti move my troops on the top starting level, it's taken over 20 minutes to walk to other side of map, and then the game drashed when I went to night vision so now I got to do it all over again lol didjt even get to enter the lair

Had similar issue with red dawn HQ, things speed up lower level I go


Edit: I found workaround: if I move troops in a way where they are offscreen while moving, they move much faster not showing animations
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 23, 2023, 10:00:49 am
The only surefire ways to improve performance and not just skip visuals I know are to either a) reduce vision range (I play with 30 myself, although not for performance reasons; but this is not simple to do in a comprehensive manner) or b) reduce map sizes (in alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul; might not want to do it too much since some maps may not work then).

That includes reducing map height, but most maps are already about as low as they can be. Underground maps are the worst because of this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Vakrug on September 23, 2023, 10:49:21 am
How does carapace plate work?
For those who wants to delve deeper into magical aspects of this game, I suggest to examine "scripts_XCOMFILES.rul" file inside "user/mods/XComFiles/Ruleset".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 23, 2023, 01:43:52 pm
Anyone use a Position Marker?
I read the reviews on the forum and realized that few people use this equipment... If anyone is using it, please tell me how to do it most effectively?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on September 23, 2023, 04:14:49 pm
Anyone use a Position Marker?
I read the reviews on the forum and realized that few people use this equipment... If anyone is using it, please tell me how to do it most effectively?

Did you find these threads (top 3 answers when searching for 'position marker'), are those suggestions not sufficient? All of these seem to include some explicit suggestions how to use them.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11466.msg157415.html#msg157415
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11156.msg153780.html#msg153780
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10460.msg145096.html#msg145096
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 23, 2023, 05:41:47 pm
I read all this, thank you.
Apparently, this device is still of little use...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Xylon666Darkstar on September 25, 2023, 02:44:02 am
They're used for detecting high camo enemies such as BL Assassins.

Additionally, useful for noobie agents on night missions with still poor night vision. Provided, you know how to tactically place and utilize them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 27, 2023, 09:31:20 am
i fought for many months trying to deal with Sectopods. Plasma is a never ending battle. It just isn't reliable enough for Sectopods.
I found the Portable laser to be the most effective.
I assign 2 or 3 soldiers as specialty units. Their main job is to wipe out Sectopods.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 27, 2023, 03:13:40 pm
How can you tell which of your agents has already undergone bio-enhancement and which has not? I didn't find this option in the agent filter. In the case of training, this is indicated explicitly, but here it is not very clear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 27, 2023, 04:03:46 pm
How can you tell which of your agents has already undergone bio-enhancement and which has not? I didn't find this option in the agent filter. In the case of training, this is indicated explicitly, but here it is not very clear.
Go to your "Agents" screen. Click on the + sign
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 27, 2023, 04:09:40 pm
Unfortunately, there is no information about the agent undergoing bio-enhancement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 27, 2023, 04:56:26 pm
No, but at least you can see that they've already been enhanced, even if the enhancement program is still in progress. I guess they're honorary cyborgs until then? :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 27, 2023, 05:04:54 pm
But you are right again! Thank you!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 27, 2023, 08:04:46 pm
But you are right again! Thank you!

"Thank him" ?
Bro I'm the one who lead you to water  ;D

Juku, always getting props  lol  :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 27, 2023, 08:55:54 pm
Here, have an internet cookie to soothe the ingratitude. ;D

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9a066367-becc-410e-83f9-9b722e3d90ce/d5b5p68-4a410e2c-b785-441a-9212-dbc6eb14e8ab.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi85YTA2NjM2Ny1iZWNjLTQxMGUtODNmOS05YjcyMmUzZDkwY2UvZDViNXA2OC00YTQxMGUyYy1iNzg1LTQ0MWEtOTIxMi1kYmM2ZWIxNGU4YWIucG5nIn1dXX0.N4x_ogfmr8PhDLBtqFd_d50m2d9G5M4aDlGMME1mSds)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on September 28, 2023, 02:51:11 am
Here, have an internet cookie to soothe the ingratitude. ;D

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9a066367-becc-410e-83f9-9b722e3d90ce/d5b5p68-4a410e2c-b785-441a-9212-dbc6eb14e8ab.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi85YTA2NjM2Ny1iZWNjLTQxMGUtODNmOS05YjcyMmUzZDkwY2UvZDViNXA2OC00YTQxMGUyYy1iNzg1LTQ0MWEtOTIxMi1kYmM2ZWIxNGU4YWIucG5nIn1dXX0.N4x_ogfmr8PhDLBtqFd_d50m2d9G5M4aDlGMME1mSds)

 It's yummy ;D ;D ;D ;D

I wouldn't mind seeing an improvement to a bio/enhancement screen. Maybe something similar to the equip agent screen. You could visually see improvements being done or have been done.

My first few play throughs with this game I completely ignored bio enhancements. But the past few I've done I have taken advantage of it as well as some others.
There is nothing better than showing up to an industrial mission with nothing but a wrench, then floating around  ;)

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on September 28, 2023, 07:35:18 am
I wouldn't mind seeing an improvement to a bio/enhancement screen. Maybe something similar to the equip agent screen. You could visually see improvements being done or have been done.
My first few play throughs with this game I completely ignored bio enhancements. But the past few I've done I have taken advantage of it as well as some others.
There is nothing better than showing up to an industrial mission with nothing but a wrench, then floating around  ;)
I agree with every word! ;)
Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on September 30, 2023, 08:51:00 pm
Where do I obtain a Tritanium Matrix for the Alloy Foundry?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on September 30, 2023, 09:26:45 pm
Via looting (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10946.msg151353.html#msg151353) it, 'cos that's how X-Com does things? :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 01, 2023, 03:00:39 am
Via looting (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10946.msg151353.html#msg151353) it, 'cos that's how X-Com does things? :P

Yeah I get that, but where in particular is it found?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 01, 2023, 03:32:33 am
Follow the white rabbit link.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 01, 2023, 03:38:05 am
Follow the white rabbit link.

Ah I see, cheers
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Fiskun1 on October 06, 2023, 03:37:12 pm
This is probably more of a question for the authors of the OCSE, but still... it would be a good idea to give the player the opportunity to choose the nature of the return fire: aimed, burst mode, not to shoot at all, and so on.
When an agent tries to hit an enemy at long range with a pistol, it looks terrible. Or when, instead of one aimed shot, the agent makes two or three inaccurate shots...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Nerro on October 06, 2023, 05:44:18 pm
Reaction fire are reaction. It make sense for me that the agent does not take the time to aim.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on October 07, 2023, 07:51:06 am
They are not absolutely preventable. The RNG might still screw you. I had to wait for about 15 months for Cult Base mission to come up for two cults. I did everything the game provided and the manors still kept spawning. So I don't think it's fair to say that my anti-cult activities were insufficient.

I realize that I was having bad luck with RNG. But if this can happen for 15 months, it surely can also go on for 6 or 9 months. During which time many manors could spawn and the player can do nothing to prevent it.

To minimize this, I also suggested to significantly increase the chances of spawning Cult Forward Bases so that the mod would actually provide the player with sufficient chance of anti-cult activities to prevent manor spam.

In my next campaign, I had a similar delay issue with Cult Outposts. It took about 10 months (April 1998) to get the outpost of the final cult (BL). So before that you couldn't get all the cult operations research and you couldn't get OSPREY, so it would not make sense to research other cult operations either (going after Cult Forward Bases with helicopter or dragonfly is extremely risky).

If the RNG screws you in this manner, the alternative is to research and build a SKYRAIDER, which can transport 10 people quickly and also has a nice front exit, and does not have exterior lighting to spoil the night missions like dragonfly. With a crew of 10 you can take on some of the more difficult missions (just did a first tier manor, for example) though I'd still be cautious of going after the cult HQs.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 07, 2023, 03:19:28 pm
In my next campaign, I had a similar delay issue with Cult Outposts. It took about 10 months (April 1998) to get the outpost of the final cult (BL). So before that you couldn't get all the cult operations research and you couldn't get OSPREY, so it would not make sense to research other cult operations either (going after Cult Forward Bases with helicopter or dragonfly is extremely risky).

If the RNG screws you in this manner, the alternative is to research and build a SKYRAIDER, which can transport 10 people quickly and also has a nice front exit, and does not have exterior lighting to spoil the night missions like dragonfly. With a crew of 10 you can take on some of the more difficult missions (just did a first tier manor, for example) though I'd still be cautious of going after the cult HQs.

I also went through a similar issue. In my cause it was unlocking Exalt operations which popped research for the Osprey.
I played this game a bit differently this time. I waited till i had all 4 cult Prerequisite lined up and did them all simultaneously.
Waiting to find an EXALT Enforcer proved challenging to open up EXALT operations.

I've still yet to get an EXALT Master (or his cane) and I'm in mid 1998.

The RNG is so radical for this game but I'm gonna be honest, it is one of things I love about it. It's so unpredictable.
I've beat this game around 7 times now with different versions and each time I've played it, it's been different. Like a lot different.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 08, 2023, 01:09:14 am
In my next campaign, I had a similar delay issue with Cult Outposts. It took about 10 months (April 1998) to get the outpost of the final cult (BL). So before that you couldn't get all the cult operations research and you couldn't get OSPREY, so it would not make sense to research other cult operations either (going after Cult Forward Bases with helicopter or dragonfly is extremely risky).

Is using Helicopter or Dragonfly really that risky? I killed all cults by'98 using the helicopter, the only one that gave me issues iirc was either the Black Lotus or Red Dawn, the rest were pretty easy, using Blackops weapons and Liquidator Armour.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 08, 2023, 03:14:35 am
Is using Helicopter or Dragonfly really that risky? I killed all cults by'98 using the helicopter, the only one that gave me issues iirc was either the Black Lotus or Red Dawn, the rest were pretty easy, using Blackops weapons and Liquidator Armour.

Helicopter has it's advantages. your ready to fire all 6 soldiers on turn one.
But for something like Church of Dagon HQ, your screwed.

You are literally surrounded by tons of enemies and though smoke does help, there is no cover. Same with Red Dawn HQ. BL HQ is a bit different, Exalt not really applicable.
Osprey can carry a lot more soldiers as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on October 08, 2023, 07:54:19 am
Is using Helicopter or Dragonfly really that risky? I killed all cults by'98 using the helicopter, the only one that gave me issues iirc was either the Black Lotus or Red Dawn, the rest were pretty easy, using Blackops weapons and Liquidator Armour.

I suppose you have played with a lower difficulty. First two difficulties only have about 1/3 of the enemy numbers that superhuman has, for instance. Yet even with the lower difficulties I still suppose it is risky and may require save/reloads. With SH forward bases have about 60 enemies and HQs 100+ enemies.

With vanilla X-COM AI mechanics it would certainly be doable at least with a good spawn location. But X-Com Files has 'spotter' and 'sniper' mechanic, which will mean that dozens of enemies can come at you and shoot, throw grenades or use grenade launchers blindly at you if you hit one of the 'spotters' (most of them are, except with BL), even if you stay inside the smoke or the cover of darkness (so they can't see you). Grenades and launchers are usually the most destructive part.

The most effective way to counter this AI mechanic is to go there at night (and hope there are no enemies nearby spotting you), throw out flares and throw grenades for the first 5-10 turns or so, and not shoot at all. Throwing grenades does not trigger "sniper backfiring". But being able throw sufficient number of grenades requires a significant number of agents (you will also have to throw flares, many grenades will miss and many enemies require multiple grenades; nearby ones can be dealt with dynamites, which take more space and are heavier, so you'll need more agents for that reason as well).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 08, 2023, 05:10:11 pm

throw out flares and throw grenades for the first 5-10 turns or so, and not shoot at all. Throwing grenades does not trigger "sniper backfiring".

This is really interesting and something I did not know. I could have sworn grenade throwing has triggered reaction fire from enemies.
Might be wrong though, will have to test this out.

This is well said and a great strategy psavola.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on October 08, 2023, 07:22:14 pm
This is really interesting and something I did not know. I could have sworn grenade throwing has triggered reaction fire from enemies.
Might be wrong though, will have to test this out.

This is a different thing cf. reactions. Reactions happen immediately. If you are spotted (visually or by you shooting an unit), the enemy snipers can attack you on the next turn (and some aliens even after multiple turns).

Throwing a grenade may well result in immediate reactions if the enemy unit sees you, and the strategy above does not help (but not because of reactions but rather because you have been visually spotted). But if you throw the grenades at the enemies which don't see you, you don't get reactions and neither on the next turn(s) the enemy snipers can target you. In contrast, if you shoot an enemy that doesn't see you, you don't get reactions but you will get snipered the next turn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 09, 2023, 12:55:45 am
This is a different thing cf. reactions. Reactions happen immediately. If you are spotted (visually or by you shooting an unit), the enemy snipers can attack you on the next turn (and some aliens even after multiple turns).

Throwing a grenade may well result in immediate reactions if the enemy unit sees you, and the strategy above does not help (but not because of reactions but rather because you have been visually spotted). But if you throw the grenades at the enemies which don't see you, you don't get reactions and neither on the next turn(s) the enemy snipers can target you. In contrast, if you shoot an enemy that doesn't see you, you don't get reactions but you will get snipered the next turn.

You're right !

I just tested this out and this is exactly what happened.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Psyentific on October 09, 2023, 04:07:38 am
more generally, this technique can work with any indirect fire weapon such as grenade launchers
Title: Re: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on October 09, 2023, 07:46:45 am
more generally, this technique can work with any indirect fire weapon such as grenade launchers

Based on testing I think the current understanding of these is as follows (see for example https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8199.msg155045.html#msg155045): if you hit the enemy unit with an indirect fire weapon, you get spotted for sniping the next turn. However, if you miss the unit and the unit only gets splash damage, then you don't get 'spotted' for sniping.

I have not dared to use indirect fire weapons much myself. But if you do, make sure you miss the target unit.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 09, 2023, 11:22:15 pm
Are there any future plans to have an Osiron HQ ?
The syndicate is one of my favorite cults. I'd love to see a similar scenario for Osiron.

I understand that missions are needed for filler (monthly score) For example the hybrids, etc. But Osiron would be great to finish off.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on October 14, 2023, 07:28:17 pm
Has anyone got any tips on how to deal with Gazers? They seem to be in all my damn UFO's, also how dangerous are alien turrets?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Nerro on October 14, 2023, 08:34:20 pm
Against Gazers, psy weapon are usefull since they bypass the armor. Get a stock of those from ghost missions and make sure they are in the skyranger for the next time you face them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on October 18, 2023, 06:49:24 am
In my first game, I was a bit surprised to see Ethereal missions already in June/July 1999. Two small ones, then a large accompanied by two medium HKs.

But that aside, what are your best tactics of taking them down given the shields especially the higher tiers use, especially in the early game? At least at this stage of development, I found that good guys could melee them with katanas/battleaxes if can get to close combat (1 or 2 hits, meaning you'll need to prepare for getting reaction shot anyway). Spamming dozens of gas grenades (or mines) otherwise, as the shields shouldn't help protect against them (though it might require a surprising number of grenades each, even 3-5 hits). Shrapnel rockets or explosives, with 2-3 hits, seem to be OK but are very destructive and trigger their sniper/spotter mechanic so you'll likely be grenaded or shot the next turn. The big downside of these is that they cause a lot of smoke, and if you don't have an armor with good heat vision, the battlescape might be nightmare afterwards. In smaller ranges, 2-3 rounds of MAGMA pulse rifle with chem clips also works (but again, you need to prepare for the reaction shots). All in all, the small UFOs were somehow manageable, but the medium one with 20+ Ethereals was a major PITA. I dare not think about the large one with all the sectopods that are likely deployed there as well.

If you have a good vessel, like the latest modification of Skyranger, you may be able to shoot rockets at the enemy for several turns, retreating into the fully protected environment every turn.  The enemy is not smart enough to shoot inside the vessel with a blaster bomb.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on October 18, 2023, 06:53:04 am
Am I supposed to be getting alien retaliation missions before the invasion? It's November '98 and I just got blindsided by Floaters showing up in a forward operating base in South America. That seems like odd behavior given the only UFO I've interacted with was one that happened to land right by my European base months ago. I did apparently turn aggressive retaliation on which I guess might do it?

It's strange that you encountered floaters.  However, MiB and Syndicate activity against your bases that early in game is not unexpected.  Also, in mid-1999 you might as well get something like an Arbiter flying at you.  The tactical approach with dealing with the latter is to either use the latest skyranger (or a Zrbite engine based dropship) as a protective cover, retreating into it every turn, and shooting rockets into enemy.  Ideally, TT shrapnel rockets.  You'll need a lot of those for such mission.

An alternative approach exists, whence you may be able to secure a location hidden by debris / terrain and setup mortar troops there.  However, it is less optimal, since you'd loose time, and would be more exposed than when retreating into vessel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on October 18, 2023, 06:55:01 am
Shotguns are notoriously good against shields.

Shields go over armor and as such are not protected by it. So for example a Heavy Shotgun Buckshot with 22x12 will do 264 damage to a shield from a short distance on average.

If you take a proper tactical approach, then enemies could be funneled into tight groups, which are very vulnerable to shrapnel and especially tt shrapnel rocket fire.  Frankly, there's hardly a great level of difficulty with such missions, if played properly.

Also, the miniguns replace the shotguns at shorter distances in a much more efficient (or at least comparable, depending on the method of one's assessment) fashion, IMHO.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 18, 2023, 08:02:40 am
But I can't remove them any further... Or maybe I don't understand your point. Can you be more specific?

Early small retaliations are very manageable with rockets and miniguns.  There's no practical need to eliminate them.  My suggestion would be to perhaps disable them on easier levels (like the 1st and 2nd), and to keep on anything above 3rd.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 18, 2023, 08:10:43 am
On Dimension X outpost defense missions the mission description includes a warning "If we don't, the Council will be severely disappointed." and briefing text "If we don't protect the facilities, the base will have to be rebuilt, which will reflect badly on our reputation."

It makes sense that there should be a penalty for aborting an outpost defense mission.

However, as far as I can see, the abort penalty is 50 points and that's it. With this kind of description, I suppose the abort penalty should be at least 500 points - or the text about severe disappointment or some such should be removed.

The mission can be on the tougher side, depending on the spawns and which directions the enemies are facing at start. So the abort penalty should not be extremely high.

Making the penalty as high as 500 makes a lot of sense.  However, at that stage of a game, you'd be usually making 10k+ points a month, so it may make sense to increase the penalty even further.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 18, 2023, 08:20:38 am
I know I've mentioned this before but what's your opinion on the alien terrorist attacks, specifically the 4 laser turrets ?? Those things have like deadly accuracy from 100 tiles (on beginner).

It also takes a lot of shots just to take one out. Lasers and tritanium ammo probably the best. I've calculated approx 7 to 9 shots each turret.

Turrets are really easy to deal with with ordnance, especially shrapnel variety.

However, a mortar is an almost ideal solution here.  It takes about 3 HE charges to take down one turret.  Now, the rocket launchers (think about something like LAW in US) and mortars are common military weapons.  There's no cheating in using them.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 18, 2023, 01:33:31 pm
Turrets are really easy to deal with with ordnance, especially shrapnel variety.

However, a mortar is an almost ideal solution here.  It takes about 3 HE charges to take down one turret.  Now, the rocket launchers (think about something like LAW in US) and mortars are common military weapons.  There's no cheating in using them.

I've tried the HE route before.
One time I even blew the turret right off the ship. It laid on the ground still firing at my guys  ;D  (that is no joke)
Best method I have found now is lasers. Even a well aimed auto-shot with a portable laser will take out a turret and even Sectopods fairly easy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on October 19, 2023, 05:44:42 am
Am I supposed to be getting alien retaliation missions before the invasion? It's November '98 and I just got blindsided by Floaters showing up in a forward operating base in South America. That seems like odd behavior given the only UFO I've interacted with was one that happened to land right by my European base months ago. I did apparently turn aggressive retaliation on which I guess might do it?

Yeah, if some random scout noticed your base, I can't see why they wouldn't attack you. You specifically enabled this.

There was some discussion about alien retaliation missions before the invasion. The above comment was in the context of aggressive retaliation having been enabled. But this happens with vanilla options as well.

To prove the point, In Oct 1998, I have not shot down any UFOs and I just had "recurringRetaliation" (which, with 75 % probability, was STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION). Looking at the rulesets, recurringRetaliation has 20 % chance of happening starting from month 22. Oct 1998 is month 22 so I got it in the earliest possible mission spawn. It was Chasers, so not too bad, if you just have defenders in the base. (I've often been lazy assigning defenders on various secondary bases, but I suppose I need to step up due to these random retaliations.)

EDIT: I'll add that this can be a bit tough, because at that point you're barely getting up the radar coverage and you don't have even decent interceptors yet; and you probably haven't prioritized building defenses (mass driver defenses being the best at that point) at that point. And the alien race the RNG can is not necessarily easy.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 20, 2023, 04:09:26 am
I've tried the HE route before.
One time I even blew the turret right off the ship. It laid on the ground still firing at my guys  ;D  (that is no joke)
Best method I have found now is lasers. Even a well aimed auto-shot with a portable laser will take out a turret and even Sectopods fairly easy.

Considering the shield strength on the turret, I presume it would be 2 shots even with heavy laser to take it out.

Also, note that the resistances against cutting in those adversaries are stacked very favorably towards the use of shrapnel weapons.  So, even a rockets launcher with tritanium rocket would work well.  Actually, you might as well add some tritanium frag grenades into the game with a little bit of editing, and that would be a very nice early solution against those turrets.  I did that with mortar rounds, by the way.  Now, it takes 1-2 rounds to demolish a turret.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on October 20, 2023, 04:16:15 am
There was some discussion about alien retaliation missions before the invasion. The above comment was in the context of aggressive retaliation having been enabled. But this happens with vanilla options as well.

To prove the point, In Oct 1998, I have not shot down any UFOs and I just had "recurringRetaliation" (which, with 75 % probability, was STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION). Looking at the rulesets, recurringRetaliation has 20 % chance of happening starting from month 22. Oct 1998 is month 22 so I got it in the earliest possible mission spawn. It was Chasers, so not too bad, if you just have defenders in the base. (I've often been lazy assigning defenders on various secondary bases, but I suppose I need to step up due to these random retaliations.)

EDIT: I'll add that this can be a bit tough, because at that point you're barely getting up the radar coverage and you don't have even decent interceptors yet; and you probably haven't prioritized building defenses (mass driver defenses being the best at that point) at that point. And the alien race the RNG can is not necessarily easy.

I forgot to mention in my previous reply on the matter that in addition to Syndicate and MiB threats of direct
assault against XCOM bases, there also exists a threat coming from cults.  I did have a cult attack one of my bases, when I built it in Japan to take advantage of early mudcrawler advantages in deployment against HQ.

I am not 100% positive, but there may even be a threat from hybrids.

All of those threats make a great deal of logical sense, and fit very nicely into the lore.

Note to @Solarius Scorch.  If there's no hybrid attack missions currently encoded, please consider adding those into the mod.

I actually do recall aliens destroying one of my entry-lift-only bases in one experimental playthrough.  But whether it was aliens proper or not -- that is a question to ponder, since the error message is probably the same regardless of race.

Note to @Solarius Scorch.  If there's a way to inform player which race had destroyed the base, please consider adding this functionality into the mod.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on October 20, 2023, 04:21:01 am
It was Chasers, so not too bad, if you just have defenders in the base. (I've often been lazy assigning defenders on various secondary bases, but I suppose I need to step up due to these random retaliations.)

EDIT: I'll add that this can be a bit tough, because at that point you're barely getting up the radar coverage and you don't have even decent interceptors yet; and you probably haven't prioritized building defenses (mass driver defenses being the best at that point) at that point. And the alien race the RNG can is not necessarily easy.

I wonder if you had success with using defense drones on bases?  I never took advantage of those, and relied on AA as well as air interception instead.  With a decent radar coverage (as I recall, it's cumulative -- while early in game a cost of multiple installations would make a full coverage expensive), early interceptors (even the generic INTERCEPTOR type), manned with good pilots (which is crucial to survivability) and at least stingrays, are more than  adequate to shoot down early enemy assault crafts.  As I recall, there're no large UFOs ever sent against your bases before the invasion starts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: psavola on October 20, 2023, 05:50:10 am
I am not 100% positive, but there may even be a threat from hybrids.

All of those threats make a great deal of logical sense, and fit very nicely into the lore.

Note to @Solarius Scorch.  If there's no hybrid attack missions currently encoded, please consider adding those into the mod.

Yes, hybrids do retaliate against bases. This can happen at least with 3.2 snap, when they have convoys that move and you can shoot down or destroy to trigger the retaliation. Otherwise they will not. Yesterday after shooting down their medium convoy I immediately got a recon mission and an attack with "Hybrid Lander" craft on the base.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.9: The Empire Strikes Back
Post by: zee_ra on October 20, 2023, 06:30:23 am
Yes, hybrids do retaliate against bases. This can happen at least with 3.2 snap, when they have convoys that move and you can shoot down or destroy to trigger the retaliation. Otherwise they will not. Yesterday after shooting down their medium convoy I immediately got a recon mission and an attack with "Hybrid Lander" craft on the base.

Thank you for the update on this.  In that case, we have a full gamut of covert warfare matrix available to explore.

These early attacks are really a good incentive to develop either radar and fighter or drone capabilities ASAP.  Actually, I managed to play games whence I never had to defend a base of my own (disclosure: I did modify the engine mods to make speed booster for fighters a more potent, but also much more expensive one).

When I played earlier versions (ca. 2.7) and without my improved speed booster upgrade module for fighters mod, I only ran into the base defense situation a few times.

I believe it is possible to avoid base defense situations entirely by being very smart with the timing of construction of extensive defense arrays (I mean, 12 or so of mass driver cannon modules).  In general, 16 shots from gauss cannon are sufficient to destroy a large vessel.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 20, 2023, 02:02:47 pm
Considering the shield strength on the turret, I presume it would be 2 shots even with heavy laser to take it out.

Also, note that the resistances against cutting in those adversaries are stacked very favorably towards the use of shrapnel weapons.  So, even a rockets launcher with tritanium rocket would work well.  Actually, you might as well add some tritanium frag grenades into the game with a little bit of editing, and that would be a very nice early solution against those turrets.  I did that with mortar rounds, by the way.  Now, it takes 1-2 rounds to demolish a turret.

Like a lot of things in this game, it's kind of random. Similar to the way one plasma shot will take out a muton but others require 2 or 3 shots.

No heavy laser. A portable laser, Auto shot. Sometimes a well placed hit.. it only takes 2 shots. This is far easier than setting up mortar and also leaves your man free to roam carrying a semi light weapon with Auto shot.

But I'll never denounce anyone's way of playing this game, if mortar is working for you, I suggest to keep with it. Those turrets can be a PIA :-)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 20, 2023, 05:17:51 pm
Like a lot of things in this game, it's kind of random. Similar to the way one plasma shot will take out a muton but others require 2 or 3 shots.

No heavy laser. A portable laser, Auto shot. Sometimes a well placed hit.. it only takes 2 shots. This is far easier than setting up mortar and also leaves your man free to roam carrying a semi light weapon with Auto shot.

But I'll never denounce anyone's way of playing this game, if mortar is working for you, I suggest to keep with it. Those turrets can be a PIA :-)

The key tactics when encountering turrets is not to get shot, and the universal cover is the vessel itself.  This makes only two ships a viable assault transport: the alloy skyranger, and the dropship (to a lesser extent).  The ideal is thus to use an indirect fire weapon to take out the turrets.  It could be either a guided rocket, a blaster bomb, or a mortar.

I do have a submod that adds an "unholy" armor with green shield.  That one could stand up to fire from the ship turrets, and for troopers wearing that armor a direct assault route against turrets with e.g. laser or plasma weapons would be a viable one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 20, 2023, 07:02:45 pm
The key tactics when encountering turrets is not to get shot, and the universal cover is the vessel itself.  This makes only two ships a viable assault transport: the alloy skyranger, and the dropship (to a lesser extent).  The ideal is thus to use an indirect fire weapon to take out the turrets.  It could be either a guided rocket, a blaster bomb, or a mortar.

I do have a submod that adds an "unholy" armor with green shield.  That one could stand up to fire from the ship turrets, and for troopers wearing that armor a direct assault route against turrets with e.g. laser or plasma weapons would be a viable one.

We all play this game kind of differently. For me, i like to sneak my guys out on Terror missions. Set up strategic placement vs. hiding in the craft or coming out for one shots.
This of course is totally dependent on the terrain but it's funny how we all play this game so differently. We ask for advice, we take some parts of that advice and incorporate it into our own game plan.

For example, I only build one base until after all cults are finished. then only one more in the future.
Some people like to create 4 or 5 bases. I think it's all about what we like and what has been successful for us in our previous missions, game plays.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 20, 2023, 08:07:57 pm
We all play this game kind of differently. For me, i like to sneak my guys out on Terror missions. Set up strategic placement vs. hiding in the craft or coming out for one shots.
This of course is totally dependent on the terrain but it's funny how we all play this game so differently. We ask for advice, we take some parts of that advice and incorporate it into our own game plan.

For example, I only build one base until after all cults are finished. then only one more in the future.
Some people like to create 4 or 5 bases. I think it's all about what we like and what has been successful for us in our previous missions, game plays.

I noticed that when playing on superhuman, with aggressive enough of an AI (whether Brutal AI or not), the enemy attempts to storm the incoming vessel upon arrival.  This does get challenging with Chryssalids and dropship being placed too close to the UFO.  Still, even such missions are doable with a clever setup of mines.
 Note that on terror missions a relatively universal solution exists -- use shrapnel rockets extensively.  That does work even against early muton terror ships (actually, that might have been a cruiser; I refer to a nasty ship with a lot of terror units and 4 laser turrets).

The bottom line is that the current configuration of the game is very much playable even on superhuman difficulty level.  I did a challenge to myself to never skip a mission, except for a small finite number.  It turned out that this challenge is really doable in practice.  Early assaults against larger vessels are quite viable.  The key is to survive initial onslaught.  The solution is to use ordnance very extensively.  In fact, you might as well arm everyone with rockets and mortars in order to survive first 6-10 turns.  After which, rifles and cannons could be equipped.

A curious fact: I never found the robotic units useful prior to Enforcer level.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on October 20, 2023, 09:00:37 pm
For example, I only build one base until after all cults are finished. then only one more in the future.
Some people like to create 4 or 5 bases. I think it's all about what we like and what has been successful for us in our previous missions, game plays.

This sounds like a very odd, even unworkable strategy for XCF. If you have just one base, you're limited to about 40 scientists until the beginning of 1999 or so (= improved lab). This leaves you very far back in the research curve (and all the time more and more so) and I can't see how you could research even the most basic stuff to progress the game and/or survive. In my current campaign, in November 1998, I already have something like 140, though I suppose somewhat fewer amount would also be workable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on October 20, 2023, 10:55:03 pm
...the universal cover is the vessel itself.  This makes only two ships a viable assault transport: the alloy skyranger, and the dropship (to a lesser extent). 
I never tire of shilling for the Lightning, which is essentially a giant turret that flies around the globe. :D

shrapnel rockets
Shrapnel has been basically a cheat for, well, ever.

If you have just one base, you're limited to about 40 scientists until the beginning of 1999 or so (= improved lab).
Well, you could be really picky about your research. But, yeah, that'd be pushing it.

Last I played, I had about 80 by 1999. Granted, I was taking things slow, researching quite a few random topics and investing a massive amount of money into a standardised armoury with almost all weapon types and a giant pile of ammo and explosives. :-[

I was always bleeding money from salaries, too. The halved Council funding (+ score bounties), probably.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on October 21, 2023, 04:38:43 am
I never tire of shilling for the Lightning, which is essentially a giant turret that flies around the globe. :D


I never used Lightning craft in a playthrough.  I have referenced this
video to check it out.  I see that it is hardly different from Kitsune, tactically speaking.  How do you use it on difficult missions?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 21, 2023, 05:56:10 am
This is the OG Lightning, which is indeed not particularly better than the Kitsune or similar. I think XCF uses some version of the "Tactical Lightning", which looks like this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on October 21, 2023, 05:58:50 am
XCF Lightning doesn't have a ramp, but rather "elevators". You can easily test the craft designs with a "new battle". The design also prevents enemy grenade launcher reaction fire (if you go down instead of up), but obviously not straight fire. I could very well see it used with a tactic, go down, shoot a snapshot, come back up to safety. You'll still have to deal with enemy reaction fire but you could just take it or drop a smoke. This design would be particularly useful in missions which are so full of enemies that you might have trouble dealing with all of them close by no matter what you do. You could also deploy units on elevator squares so that chryssalids or any melee-only units couldn't get at you.

With kitsune you can also jump down, take a snapshot and run back up. However, due to the ramp the craft is more exposed, and the enemies can come and throw a grenade in or shoot with a rocket launcher. So it's not full safety.

The same applies to Osprey and all the sky* craft. It's open-ended and at a certain angle enemies can shoot inside or throw a grenade inside. Trying to stay in the cover is especially risky if the landing area is in the bottom parts of the map. Obviously if the landing area is in the top, it is much more difficult for enemies to get to the angle that they could hurt you.

The benefit of skymarshall is that it is on ground level. So you can get back in to cover with far fewer TUs and with osprey and other sky*. I'd suppose this is particularly useful with the front exits because the doors there will actually protect you from attacks during enemy turn (while the open-ended main entrance does not). But if you end up in the top end of the map, "run back inside" tactic will work from the main exit as well.

I have never bothered with other than early Osprey/Skyraider and Kitsune. But I suppose I could see a use case for both Lightning and to some degree Skymarshall.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zee_ra on October 21, 2023, 08:29:07 am
This is the OG Lightning, which is indeed not particularly better than the Kitsune or similar. I think XCF uses some version of the "Tactical Lightning", which looks like this.

Thank you for sharing this.

This is indeed a rather different craft than the one displayed in the video.  It is more similar tactically to the Mudranger and Dropship.  However, an important caveat goes with crafts that expose troopers on the roof: they are much more vulnerable to turret fire than the troopers shooting from behind the cover of the craft itself from the ground level, especially if the latter sort of troops shoots an arcing or a guided projectile.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zee_ra on October 21, 2023, 08:38:40 am
XCF Lightning doesn't have a ramp, but rather "elevators". You can easily test the craft designs with a "new battle". The design also prevents enemy grenade launcher reaction fire (if you go down instead of up), but obviously not straight fire. I could very well see it used with a tactic, go down, shoot a snapshot, come back up to safety. You'll still have to deal with enemy reaction fire but you could just take it or drop a smoke. This design would be particularly useful in missions which are so full of enemies that you might have trouble dealing with all of them close by no matter what you do. You could also deploy units on elevator squares so that chryssalids or any melee-only units couldn't get at you.

With kitsune you can also jump down, take a snapshot and run back up. However, due to the ramp the craft is more exposed, and the enemies can come and throw a grenade in or shoot with a rocket launcher. So it's not full safety.

The same applies to Osprey and all the sky* craft. It's open-ended and at a certain angle enemies can shoot inside or throw a grenade inside. Trying to stay in the cover is especially risky if the landing area is in the bottom parts of the map. Obviously if the landing area is in the top, it is much more difficult for enemies to get to the angle that they could hurt you.

The benefit of skymarshall is that it is on ground level. So you can get back in to cover with far fewer TUs and with osprey and other sky*. I'd suppose this is particularly useful with the front exits because the doors there will actually protect you from attacks during enemy turn (while the open-ended main entrance does not). But if you end up in the top end of the map, "run back inside" tactic will work from the main exit as well.

I have never bothered with other than early Osprey/Skyraider and Kitsune. But I suppose I could see a use case for both Lightning and to some degree Skymarshall.

The problem with the hatch leading to the top is that even if a trooper shoots ordnance (rocket, grenade, or a mortar round) from the roof, there's a high risk of reaction fire.  In case of turreted crafts, the reaction fire might as well come from the turrets themselves.  The hit-and-run tactics opportunities are thus limited even with such designs.  The Lightning works out tactically as an improved Mudranger of sorts.

With the Skymarshall craft, a different approach is possible, where a portion of the craft could serve as a cover.  A cheap option versus turrets might as well be TT explosives, or mortars.  Hit-and-run at a distance, from very difficult to reach angles becomes a possibility.

I managed early Arbiter takeovers when employing such tactics consistently.  Most of my troops used shrapnel rockets, and a handful was using small launchers.  Result: a lot of dead sectopods and about half of ethereals (it's mid-1999!) were captured alive, including commander.  I highly doubt that such a result would've been even remotely possible had I used any other craft, including Avenger.

Yes, with blaster bombs (and my modded-in blaster stun bombs), the aforementioned fight would've been really easy, even without psi.  However, without these capabilities, the Skymarshall seems to be the only craft design that is able to provide such a tremendous tactical advantage.

That is the reason I particularly appreciate the Skymarshall (which I referred to by as "alloy skyranger" in the recent posts to this thread).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 21, 2023, 09:45:05 am
The Skymarshall indeed provides better cover for indirect fires, no doubt.

How is it better for direct-fire, though, like for the aforementioned shrapnel rockets? If you have LoS, so does the turret. I mean, you could perhaps hide a bit of your agent's body at the time of firing, but that would be highly dependent on the turret and the craft aligning perfectly to give you that possibility.

The Lightning is nice because it can either provide high ground when you don't have to worry about return fire (smoke, non-static enemies, sniping and the like) or cover from arcing weapons when shooting from below the saucer, which even the Skymarshall doesn't really have an equivalent to.

If you double down on mortars and grenade launchers, you indeed get a unique advantage out of the Skymarshall. Pop-up fire seems better from a Lightning, though, especially as you don't have the doorway jams when the enemy is coming from several directions. That is, I can see the superiority of the Skymarshall against static enemies that always react and can be safely indirect-fired to death; but I don't see it if you are not exclusively facing those and using that tactic.

And you're somewhat at the mercy of the map generator, since if your craft is facing the UFO or other enemy concentration nose- or tail-first, the advantage is gone. Probably pretty rare, though.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zee_ra on October 21, 2023, 12:24:19 pm
The Skymarshall indeed provides better cover for indirect fires, no doubt.

How is it better for direct-fire, though, like for the aforementioned shrapnel rockets? If you have LoS, so does the turret. I mean, you could perhaps hide a bit of your agent's body at the time of firing, but that would be highly dependent on the turret and the craft aligning perfectly to give you that possibility.

The Lightning is nice because it can either provide high ground when you don't have to worry about return fire (smoke, non-static enemies, sniping and the like) or cover from arcing weapons when shooting from below the saucer, which even the Skymarshall doesn't really have an equivalent to.

If you double down on mortars and grenade launchers, you indeed get a unique advantage out of the Skymarshall. Pop-up fire seems better from a Lightning, though, especially as you don't have the doorway jams when the enemy is coming from several directions. That is, I can see the superiority of the Skymarshall against static enemies that always react and can be safely indirect-fired to death; but I don't see it if you are not exclusively facing those and using that tactic.

And you're somewhat at the mercy of the map generator, since if your craft is facing the UFO or other enemy concentration nose- or tail-first, the advantage is gone. Probably pretty rare, though.

With Skymarshal, it is possible to setup two teams of 6 rocketeers at each edge and fend off any assaults.

I also have made mods to mortar rounds set to enable fragmentation rounds (which actually corresponds to a real military practice across the world) and also have experimented with setting up 3 waypoints on the rockets.

Note that those are essentially optimizations.  With mortars, I could just expend 1-2 extra HE rounds and still destroy the turret.  With strictly direct fire rockets, the trick is to explore the geometry both of Skymarshall and of a UFO.  What needs to be done is to peek just a little bit from the cover, then target a part of structure near enough the turret.  The terror ship and cruiser (the one with lots of terrorists and four turrets; do you recall if it is indeed called a cruiser, or has a different name?) have such properties: their turrets are not set at the flat open surface, but rather near walls.

By the way, if you edit-in the frag charge rockets, you could add them as special x-com rockets with limited maneuverability.  That corresponds to current portable anti-tank weapon capabilities across all advanced militaries in the world, so it's a very reasonable addition.  I would even argue that such rockets should be sellable, and maybe even shootable from a regular (= not advanced) rocket launcher.

I appreciate you sharing your observations about arcing shots.  This is a nice property, albeit none of the mid-game enemies are a serious threat in that category.  Still, the enemies are pretty good at throwing grenades, so there's still extra advantage on the side of Skymarshall, with its narrow doors design.  In general, it suffices to keep a certain area around the craft clear to prevent any serious dangers, and that is very doable with rockets.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 21, 2023, 12:46:55 pm
What do these 'fragmentation' shells of yours do, cutting damage instead of concussive?


Trying to peek so that you don't see the turret, only a tile nearby, is also dependent on the map generator collaborating with you, since one step near a corner corresponds to quite an angle in visibility.

Ultimately, the Skymarshall also still suffers from the 'open ramp' issue, even if the tail blocks most of it. A few Sectopods or Cyberdisks staring down on your equipment pile on turn 1 is a big problem there.


Also, this probably only works due to the overwhelming power of shrapnel rockets, since otherwise you'd be getting serious degradation in damage done and thus armour penetration. And these effin' turrets are quite heavily armoured.


The ship you're talking about is probably the Troop Ship. A Cruiser looks somewhat like a dildo ;) and has two small and two large turrets.


...special x-com rockets with limited maneuverability.  That corresponds to current portable anti-tank weapon capabilities across all advanced militaries in the world, so it's a very reasonable addition.  I would even argue that such rockets should be sellable, and maybe even shootable from a regular (= not advanced) rocket launcher.
Isn't that what a Mind Missile is?

Anyway, top-attack munitions weren't as widespread in 1997-1999, though the Javelin did go into service in 1996 and the Bofors already in 1988.

Although I can't see how you'd fire a Javelin from a Dragon launcher or similar. It's a new weapon system, not a munition upgrade.

I appreciate you sharing your observations about arcing shots.  This is a nice property, albeit none of the mid-game enemies are a serious threat in that category. 
In my experience, grenades and Blasters (and cultist explosives) are the number one cause of deaths I could not have prevented by playing a bit more cautiously. YMMV.

In general, it suffices to keep a certain area around the craft clear to prevent any serious dangers, and that is very doable with rockets.
Perhaps. Rockets and mortars have the distinct disadvantage of firing very slowly, not working at close range unless you have serious power armour, and needing an ammo supply line in any extended engagement. I suppose with good fire discipline and the OP shrapnel shells, it's not as much of a problem.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zee_ra on October 21, 2023, 02:24:45 pm
What do these 'fragmentation' shells of yours do, cutting damage instead of concussive?

Correct.  The charge is equivalent to a rocket of corresponding type, minus the incendiary effect.

Trying to peek so that you don't see the turret, only a tile nearby, is also dependent on the map generator collaborating with you, since one step near a corner corresponds to quite an angle in visibility.

This approach works very consistently in practice.  The only issue with terrain generation is when the transport is too close to the UFO.  Still, it's not impossible to win even in such cases, even against deployments that include Chryssalids.

Ultimately, the Skymarshall also still suffers from the 'open ramp' issue, even if the tail blocks most of it. A few Sectopods or Cyberdisks staring down on your equipment pile on turn 1 is a big problem there.

I actually moved the equipment into the middle of the vessel by editing a file in the mod.

Ideally, the backside would be doored as well, but in practice the situation is very manageable, especially when a couple of heavy troopers with rockets are near the exist (so, they only need to make a step, and still have time to aim).

Also, this probably only works due to the overwhelming power of shrapnel rockets, since otherwise you'd be getting serious degradation in damage done and thus armour penetration. And these effin' turrets are quite heavily armoured.

The effect is a consequence of shield resistance.  The resistance against cutting damage is uniformly at 125%, same as plasma, across all shield types.  Also, cutting damage works nicely against enemy armor resistances.  This seems pretty consistent with the real world, apparently.

The ship you're talking about is probably the Troop Ship. A Cruiser looks somewhat like a dildo ;) and has two small and two large turrets.

Indeed!  Thank you for clarification on this one.  There is another vessel as well, a large oblong ship, called Arbiter, with many turrets, but with the same design feature: walls near turrets.

Isn't that what a Mind Missile is?

No.  The difference between 3 and 9 or unlimited waypoints is significant in practice.  The idea is to have a slightly correctable missile, like the one in the CoD, etc..  The rationale being that such missiles are still reasonably inexpensive to be available as a standard offering, if only for spec ops troops.

Anyway, top-attack munitions weren't as widespread in 1997-1999, though the Javelin did go into service in 1996 and the Bofors already in 1988.

The basic idea I wanted to illuminate when referencing the anti-tank missiles has been that the technology for missiles that could be steered in flight is already available.  The 3-waypoint missile simulates such approach nicely.

Now, given that the waypoints could be relatively arbitrary in this game, we should think of such in-game missiles as an extension of the current AT missiles technology, into a special product geared to elite special operation units.

So, the 3-waypoint rockets are a bit of acrobats, but they don't even remotely approach the magical effects of a genuine blaster bomb.  Especially, when you set the waypoints for the latter to infinity.

Ultimately, the 3-waypoint rockets are an optimization, and could be replaced by mortars and regular rockets, whether with frag shells or without.


Although I can't see how you'd fire a Javelin from a Dragon launcher or similar. It's a new weapon system, not a munition upgrade.

The in-game "Rocket Launcher" is a distinct product most definitely.  Still, the capabilities at the level of 3-waypoint guidance are more in the human-tech realm than even xcom-tech.

In my experience, grenades and Blasters (and cultist explosives) are the number one cause of deaths I could not have prevented by playing a bit more cautiously. YMMV.

It's possible to have a zero casualty playthrough, with very conservative reloading policy.  I tend to play very aggressively in the first turns, in order to create a suitable beachead.  It works much better than defense.

All in all, it's possible to overcome tactically the challenges of grenades and blasters.  The key here is access to ordnance.  Also, I would like to note that auto-mortars feel almost magical in their demolitions capacity.  A trooper could carry 7 rounds of mortar charges.  A fire team consists of 4 troopers.  That is usually more than enough to demolish enemy.

Rocketeers are there to provide cover for mortars.  They tend to be idle once the mortars start working (and with auto-mortars, it's possible to fire every turn).

Prior to promotion 3, some elements of such tactics could be simulated by the use of dynamite and HE packs (sourced as trophies).

Perhaps. Rockets and mortars have the distinct disadvantage of firing very slowly, not working at close range unless you have serious power armour, and needing an ammo supply line in any extended engagement. I suppose with good fire discipline and the OP shrapnel shells, it's not as much of a problem.

With mortars, it is necessary to setup a good spot to fire from.  In general, you do have four shots of rockets to help with that even when heavily surrounded by cyberdiscs.  The slightly maneuverable rocketry helps to bring casualty potential to nearly zero in such circumstances.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 21, 2023, 05:12:57 pm
This sounds like a very odd, even unworkable strategy for XCF. If you have just one base, you're limited to about 40 scientists until the beginning of 1999 or so (= improved lab). This leaves you very far back in the research curve (and all the time more and more so) and I can't see how you could research even the most basic stuff to progress the game and/or survive. In my current campaign, in November 1998, I already have something like 140, though I suppose somewhat fewer amount would also be workable.

As I said we all play the game differently.
You are indeed correct, research is extremely slow. But your also not worrying about defending 2 or 3 bases from monthly base attacks. Which can be very cumbersome at times.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 22, 2023, 12:15:01 am
I would say the base defence issues are a side effect of your slow research but, knowing XCF, it's probably just the RNG hating on you. :D



The charge is equivalent to a rocket of corresponding type, minus the incendiary effect.
The morale damage is gone, too, I presume? What about the armour shredding effect?

Anyway, most Mars aliens are more resistant to cutting than explosives, but all their robotic minions reverse that, for some reason I have a hard time imagining right now. Probably 'to make melee viable'? So, yeah, that boosts the shrapnel rockets some more vs turrets. Not necessary nor realistic, IMO, but it's your game to change.

This approach works very consistently in practice.  The only issue with terrain generation is when the transport is too close to the UFO.  Still, it's not impossible to win even in such cases, even against deployments that include Chryssalids.
Winning is one thing, using the cover as you say is another. I've never managed to just peek around neither the nose nor the tail of the Skymarshall while consistently remaining out of enemy LoS, unless I was sniping and out of LoS anyway. I suspect it's more about the rocket+mortar firepower than it is about the cover. Or perhaps the fact that alien turrets have no real vision advantages (heat or psi vision) and you can either smoke yourself or get some smoke cover going by just shelling the turrets hard enough. Or maybe I'm just bad at using the Skywarden. :-\

Ideally, the backside would be doored as well, but in practice the situation is very manageable, especially when a couple of heavy troopers with rockets are near the exist (so, they only need to make a step, and still have time to aim).
If three Cyberdisks are staring at said troopers on turn 1, the first fellow to take a step or shoot a rocket invites return fire. And the Troop Ship has a boatload of terror units just prowling around.

Not impossible, as you say, but the open back door is a liability you have to work around.

Also, cutting damage works nicely against enemy armor resistances.  This seems pretty consistent with the real world, apparently.
Not sure if you're joking, but if there's one thing 'realistic' armour should work against, it's cutting damage. At least the armour you use against the savages still restricted to one planet. :) Otherwise, we get the effin' High Crusade again.

Indeed!  Thank you for clarification on this one.  There is another vessel as well, a large oblong ship, called Arbiter, with many turrets, but with the same design feature: walls near turrets.
The Arbiter is the ultimate UFO, of sorts. IMO, the Terror Ship/Troop Ship turret layouts are worse (for X-Com).

The basic idea I wanted to illuminate when referencing the anti-tank missiles has been that the technology for missiles that could be steered in flight is already available.  The 3-waypoint missile simulates such approach nicely.
Well, the ability to turn on a dime isn't that 'realistic' for 199x tech. I'd give such a 'Javelin' just 1 waypoint, if it was up to me. Maybe 3 for an advanced one from M.A.G.M.A. or similar, developed after the Advanced Launcher or so. Otherwise, yeah, the Mind Missile is a bit more magitech than that.

I tend to play very aggressively in the first turns, in order to create a suitable beachead.  It works much better than defense.
Doesn't track with psavola's "'nade them in the dark" experience, or mine. I've found moving aggressively, with little hard cover or smoke leads to more reloading, even if it gives me better firing angles.

Shooting the enemy up ASAP and with as much firepower as possible, that I can agree with.

All in all, it's possible to overcome tactically the challenges of grenades and blasters.
Well, yes, but that's not done via firepower, unless you can somehow spot and kill everyone with said grenades and Blasters. That's done by not getting spotted at all, hiding your scouts in hard cover and abusing your own grenades.

Never mind that Blasters can just shoot you at will once you get 'seen'. I know of no tactic to avoid that, short of hiding somewhere the Blasters can't get to. I still have a vivid memory of that Brutal AI tester guy's TFTD colony mission where the only thing between a squad wipe and half a dozen alien DPLs homing in on the entry chambers was the fact that underwater 'elevators' are indestructible.

In general, you do have four shots of rockets to help with that even when heavily surrounded by cyberdiscs.  The slightly maneuverable rocketry helps to bring casualty potential to nearly zero in such circumstances.
How do you escape return fire from said Cyberdisks? Once you shoot, other disks shoot you back and, worse, the ones you hit spot you as a target for any 'sniper' on the enemy turn. And aliens have a lot of snipers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on October 22, 2023, 05:33:28 am
Did another Terror mission today. I realized that my issue isn't as much the turret strength as it is their accuracy.
I had a laser turret hit one of my guys from approx 80 tiles away and killed him with one shot.

So if anything I'd like to see the accuracy drop off after 20 tiles or so.

I'm not complaining though, i actually really enjoy the terror missions. They are difficult and more times than not return a very generous score (in the 1000 point range) if you're able to save enough civilians.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 22, 2023, 09:41:47 am
I mean, it's an alien super-tech laser. Don't walk around in plain sight of it if you don't want to be burned. :P

AKA smoke is your friend, since the aliens forgot to install even the basic infravision sensors us monkeys put on our most primitive drones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on October 22, 2023, 12:40:00 pm
It's possible to have a zero casualty playthrough, with very conservative reloading policy.  I tend to play very aggressively in the first turns, in order to create a suitable beachead.  It works much better than defense.

Doesn't track with psavola's "'nade them in the dark" experience, or mine. I've found moving aggressively, with little hard cover or smoke leads to more reloading, even if it gives me better firing angles.

It's rather easy to play very aggressively if you "just try it" to find where the enemy units are and once you get decimated, you reload and try to play accordingly. I suppose this is what you're doing (if something really bad happens on turn 1). Because I can't figure out how a very aggressive playstyle would be workable if you limit or eliminate the chance to reload.

I play with SH ironman (though sometimes I "cheat" by restarting the game, i.e. essentially reset to turn 1, 5, ... - so even this is not a real ironman) so you have to be more careful. Defensive style is not necessarily easier, but if you don't know the terrain and enemy placement with "reload (or restart) tricks", you can't take the chances (unless you always bring along a couple of disposable units such as untrained dogs or bats to scout the terrain and enemy positions and die in the process).

And as a clarification to Juku121's point about my "throw grenades in the dark tactic". That's something that works reliably even with SH ironman. But it is most applicable to the early or early-mid game: you only have very limited number of units (say, 2-6) and you have to take down 20, 30 or 40 enemy units, all of them sniper/spotters, your armors are so weak, etc. The approach is not so necessary at later stages (for example, 10 or 15 agents taking down a small UFO).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 22, 2023, 01:50:03 pm
Because I can't figure out how a very aggressive playstyle would be workable if you limit or eliminate the chance to reload.
My point exactly. I'm a filthy savescummer, of course :-[, but I occasionally do no-save missions as well. And I can't see how aggressive movement could be done without casualties, unless the RNG gods favour you, the AI grabs the idiot ball with both hands, or you're just clowning on some scorpions or cultists who can't hurt you through all that armour.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zee_ra on October 23, 2023, 08:19:44 am
My point exactly. I'm a filthy savescummer, of course :-[, but I occasionally do no-save missions as well. And I can't see how aggressive movement could be done without casualties, unless the RNG gods favour you, the AI grabs the idiot ball with both hands, or you're just clowning on some scorpions or cultists who can't hurt you through all that armour.

A fair approach would be to setup autosave to a value between 1 and 10, and to rollback strictly to autosaved points.  Essentially, this reflects the play performed by an oracle of various strengths.  By taking this approach, a player may focus on tactics proper, the strategy of decision-making, instead of minutiae.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Psyentific on October 23, 2023, 04:28:43 pm
My point exactly. I'm a filthy savescummer, of course :-[, but I occasionally do no-save missions as well. And I can't see how aggressive movement could be done without casualties, unless the RNG gods favour you, the AI grabs the idiot ball with both hands, or you're just clowning on some scorpions or cultists who can't hurt you through all that armour.
you have to embrace the idea of acceptable losses; a certain number of agents are going to get shot every mission. you need to lean into training and augmentations to bring up the average quality of your units so that you can quickly slot in replacements when your away team takes casualties. it's okay to lose 6 agents a month if you can generate 10 more replacements in that time. ultimately almost every unit is replaceable, albeit some more difficult than others (ex. high base reactions/psi).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 23, 2023, 06:04:05 pm
First, I don't wanna. :P

Second, while growing stats on rookies is somewhat doable, commendations absolutely don't grow on trees, and transformations are also not terribly rookie-friendly. So a constant rollover means I'm stuck with mediocre John Troopers and there's no John Wick (or he got shot and buried :D ).

Finally, the point here was not savescumming, it was how to play [edit: aggressively /edit] so savescumming is less or not at all necessary. I don't know how to do that with an aggressive turn 1 (or vs Blasters three screens away, or random grenade-throwers), and would like to learn how to if it's indeed possible. Short of endgame armours and just glassing the whole battlefield, of course.



Edit2:
...I've been in a traffic accident. Long story, but ultimately I'm fine.
Scary.

More importantly, is there now going to be an easter egg mission about Hybrid convoys and road safety? :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 25, 2023, 02:00:03 pm
Early small retaliations are very manageable with rockets and miniguns.  There's no practical need to eliminate them.  My suggestion would be to perhaps disable them on easier levels (like the 1st and 2nd), and to keep on anything above 3rd.

This sounds rather subjective. I'm not sure if it would be the general consensus.

There was some discussion about alien retaliation missions before the invasion. The above comment was in the context of aggressive retaliation having been enabled. But this happens with vanilla options as well.

To prove the point, In Oct 1998, I have not shot down any UFOs and I just had "recurringRetaliation" (which, with 75 % probability, was STR_SENTRY_RETALIATION). Looking at the rulesets, recurringRetaliation has 20 % chance of happening starting from month 22. Oct 1998 is month 22 so I got it in the earliest possible mission spawn. It was Chasers, so not too bad, if you just have defenders in the base. (I've often been lazy assigning defenders on various secondary bases, but I suppose I need to step up due to these random retaliations.)

So what's the point? Non-retaliation UFOs detecting your bases and triggering retaliations without the "aggressive retaliation" option on? Or not?

Note to @Solarius Scorch.  If there's no hybrid attack missions currently encoded, please consider adding those into the mod.

Like Psavola said, there are, but they're rare, as they can only trigger when you shoot down hybrid craft.

Note to @Solarius Scorch.  If there's a way to inform player which race had destroyed the base, please consider adding this functionality into the mod.

How would I do this with a mod?

More importantly, is there now going to be an easter egg mission about Hybrid convoys and road safety? :P

Nah, I don't want to be accused of ageism :D

But thanks, I'm doing okay, I think. Still need a week or two to get back to my usual peak 30%... :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on October 25, 2023, 04:59:49 pm
So what's the point? Non-retaliation UFOs detecting your bases and triggering retaliations without the "aggressive retaliation" option on? Or not?

As far as I understand it, previously the complaint was alien retaliation missions that occur before the invasion has even started. You pointed out that the user was using aggressive retaliation option, so the retaliation could have been triggered by some random scout (and implying that it would not with normal XCF options). I was pointing out that vanilla XCF includes scripted alien retaliation missions that start in October 1998, i.e., before the invasion has started. So you can get retaliation with vanilla XCF even if you haven't done anything to trigger the aliens.

Whether this is reasonable or not is another question. These may be a bit unexpected, but not too difficult to handle (especially after the alien races were downgraded a bit in the last update).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Empiro on October 27, 2023, 10:04:48 pm
you have to embrace the idea of acceptable losses; a certain number of agents are going to get shot every mission. you need to lean into training and augmentations to bring up the average quality of your units so that you can quickly slot in replacements when your away team takes casualties. it's okay to lose 6 agents a month if you can generate 10 more replacements in that time. ultimately almost every unit is replaceable, albeit some more difficult than others (ex. high base reactions/psi).

Without saving/reloading, it's probably not possible to suffer no deaths. There's just too much random chance involved -- things dynamite being thrown from outside visual range, grenade launchers, random shots from across the map (because you hit someone so they can "see" you) that strikes your side armor even if you're facing them, etc.

In X-Com Files, it's not too hard to max out reactions at least -- you can rack them up on easy strange creature and zombie missions. Keeping high PSI agents in the back is usually good enough to keep them alive.

One thing I would definitely like to see fixed though, is the implementation of the scout-sniper. I know it will require engine changes, but it's aggravating how hitting any enemy automatically makes you visible, and on Red Dawn missions causes you to get lit the f- up even if your sniper is half way across the map in the dark. To compensate, it would be nice if enemies were a bit smarter -- i.e. they would throw a flare in your direction if they got shot from the dark. I think overall it would increase the challenge without making things feel cheesy or unfair.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on October 27, 2023, 10:40:17 pm
One thing I would definitely like to see fixed though, is the implementation of the scout-sniper.
...
To compensate, it would be nice if enemies were a bit smarter...
Given how many times this issue has been raised with no change (never mind the one guy who made and shared a fork resolving this exact problem; outdated now, I believe), and the general idea of OXCE not messing with AI (to any significant degree, at least), the first is rather unlikely and the second is almost certainly not going to happen.

On the other hand, there's Brutal AI (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10967.0.html) now.

Although using BAI to make scout-sniper less of a pain is sort of like 'fixing' a broken toe by chopping off the entire leg and installing a bionic one. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 01, 2023, 06:26:08 pm
As should already be obvious, the RNG aspect of mission scripts leads to very different approaches in the mid-game. But I'll just write this as an observation to highlight the potential differences depending on the RNG you get.

In my current game, the aliens have been very lazy with the invasion that was supposed to begin on Jan 1, 1999 midnight. It's May already, and I've only seen two very small UFOs. That's it. Luckily, the military shot down a couple of UFOs in 1998, and there have been at least three Chtonite Minibase assaults. So there have been plenty of access to engineers, navigators, leaders or medics to progress the research tree otherwise as well.

On the other hand, I got lucky to get MIB cover-up missions (2*5 % monthly chance) . Shooting down their transporters will eventually lead to retaliation missions and MIB Stealth Bombers, which each have a number of MIB troopers equipped with power suits and shock armors. Which you can grab if you stun them with Katapeltes Spiritus (the other means of capturing them alive and actually getting a usable armor are essentially useless). Dealing all of these MIBs gives you rather easy access to about a dozen powerful armors you would not have a chance of getting any time soon otherwise.

In my previous game, about this time I don't recall getting more than one good MIB mission so the access to good armors was very different.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 01, 2023, 07:13:30 pm

In my previous game, about this time I don't recall getting more than one good MIB mission so the access to good armors was very different.

I actually found my first ever MIB base after like 5 play throughs.
It was similar to the MIB lunar mission only a much smaller scale.

On a different note, I curious if X com Base location has anything to do with base attacks. this past play through I just completed, I didn't have one base attack. Normally I am bombarded with them. I'm curious if location takes you out of the path/lanes of ships looking for your base ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 01, 2023, 08:44:56 pm
On a different note, I curious if X com Base location has anything to do with base attacks. this past play through I just completed, I didn't have one base attack. Normally I am bombarded with them. I'm curious if location takes you out of the path/lanes of ships looking for your base ?

It could be. I've read that you can put a base in a mission zone where the aliens won't go (I suppose they could still detect the base if they get close enough). I think this was a vanilla "cheat" but I suppose it could work with mods as well.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 09, 2023, 06:32:00 pm
As should already be obvious, the RNG aspect of mission scripts leads to very different approaches in the mid-game. But I'll just write this as an observation to highlight the potential differences depending on the RNG you get.

In my current game, the aliens have been very lazy with the invasion that was supposed to begin on Jan 1, 1999 midnight. It's May already, and I've only seen two very small UFOs. That's it. Luckily, the military shot down a couple of UFOs in 1998, and there have been at least three Chtonite Minibase assaults. So there have been plenty of access to engineers, navigators, leaders or medics to progress the research tree otherwise as well.

On the other hand, I got lucky to get MIB cover-up missions (2*5 % monthly chance) . Shooting down their transporters will eventually lead to retaliation missions and MIB Stealth Bombers, which each have a number of MIB troopers equipped with power suits and shock armors. Which you can grab if you stun them with Katapeltes Spiritus (the other means of capturing them alive and actually getting a usable armor are essentially useless). Dealing all of these MIBs gives you rather easy access to about a dozen powerful armors you would not have a chance of getting any time soon otherwise.

In my previous game, about this time I don't recall getting more than one good MIB mission so the access to good armors was very different.

Looking at my 1999-09-01 save, finally those lazy-ass sectoids are going to start the invasion on September 1999. And floaters their research missions. And chasers their invasion missions. And snakemen their retaliation missions. Funnily enough, Ethereals will also be starting their retaliation missions due to me having researched the MIB commander. This kinda shows that all those small percentage events can make the campaign very funky and unexpected. If you wanted all of this to make even a little sense, the probability of the first invasion missions should be much higher than the current 17 % + 13 %. Finally those 352 scientists will have some alien interrogation to do (the current research list is empty).

And still no mysterious parcel from the syndicate, even though I destroyed them 6 months ago and decrypted the testament. Therefore no access to Spartanism transformation yet. Really annoying that the probability of getting the parcel is only 25 %, instead of other "rewards" for completing arcs which you always get immediately. But I suppose you can argue this to be balanced because the spartanism seems to be by far the best transformation. I'd still suggest increasing the probability a lot.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 10, 2023, 03:18:12 pm


And still no mysterious parcel from the syndicate, even though I destroyed them 6 months ago and decrypted the testament.

This has happened to me before as well. But I believe it was because I failed to research the Schutzstaffeln Ring.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Sneak Dog on November 12, 2023, 03:09:21 pm
First off, great mod.

It's possible to miss the zombie trooper implant entirely by being too live capture happy like this mod has been teaching me to be. The live zombie troopers don't grant the zombie trooper implant pre-requisite, only the corpses do.

Edit: I should probably mention why. As far as I know they're only fielded in a magma lab mission that, once completed, doesn't show up again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on November 12, 2023, 04:52:49 pm
You can manually overwrite the 'retain interrogated aliens' option. That allows you to kill in addition to selling, so you can always slaughter your surplus for parts. >:D

You also get dead bodies after interrogation. A little cruel, perhaps, but what else might X-Com be doing with its captives that both consumes them and doesn't leave a corpse? Hmmm, smells like a coverup... ;)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 14, 2023, 12:04:02 am
I wonder, what are the best ways to deal with mutons in open areas?

They are very tanky (125+ health and 28+ armor), and have reasonable reactions and firing accuracy. Usually taking one down takes 2-3 hits which is liable to cause you casualties or at least serious wounds. If they weren't 60% resistant to KINETIC, bigger gauss weapons might do the trick, but I don't think any main gun is likely to one-shot them. And if you don't deal with all of them quickly, the snipers are likely to fire back or throw explosives.

Their major weakness appears to be a very low PSI strength, so inside confined areas I guess mind control or panic should wreck them. But this is not really an option in the open areas.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: krautbernd on November 14, 2023, 12:29:41 pm
Blasters Turbolasers and fire, like the majority of other things. In "open" spaces I find a turbolaser sniper rifle, a (as in multiple) soldier with decent accuracy and smoke (keeping in mind their 20% HV) is usually enough to deal with them.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on November 14, 2023, 04:45:53 pm
If I destroy Alien colonies, will the funding nations come back? Like the Embassies from ages ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 14, 2023, 08:03:48 pm
If I destroy Alien colonies, will the funding nations come back? Like the Embassies from ages ago.
I could be wrong but the answer there is no. Once a country has signed a "pact", they will never fund you again.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 14, 2023, 08:24:09 pm
OXCE allows modders to enable rejoining (allowCountriesToCancelAlienPact) but in XCF this is set to false. So, they won't rejoin.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Thunderwing280 on November 14, 2023, 11:09:51 pm
I could be wrong but the answer there is no. Once a country has signed a "pact", they will never fund you again.
I see, though the Colony description does make it sound like it would, might need to be changed to remove the implication.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 14, 2023, 11:40:21 pm

And still no mysterious parcel from the syndicate, even though I destroyed them 6 months ago and decrypted the testament. Therefore no access to Spartanism transformation yet. Really annoying that the probability of getting the parcel is only 25 %, instead of other "rewards" for completing arcs which you always get immediately. But I suppose you can argue this to be balanced because the spartanism seems to be by far the best transformation. I'd still suggest increasing the probability a lot.

You were right. The same thing just happened to me. A year later after terminating the syndicate I just received the mysterious package (for Spartanism). I'm not really sure what triggered it.
But it wasn't the ring like I thought it was.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 14, 2023, 11:44:49 pm
I see, though the Colony description does make it sound like it would, might need to be changed to remove the implication.
I've never really sweat it if one country (or two) has stopped funding. The game is still beatable. If your neglecting raids often and losing funding from loads of countries then I would be concerned. The ability of not being able to win back funding from pact signed countries is part of the challenges.
All these small challenges is what makes this game disturbingly amusing to me  :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on November 15, 2023, 08:16:08 pm
I wonder, what are the best ways to deal with mutons in open areas?

They are very tanky (125+ health and 28+ armor), and have reasonable reactions and firing accuracy. Usually taking one down takes 2-3 hits which is liable to cause you casualties or at least serious wounds. If they weren't 60% resistant to KINETIC, bigger gauss weapons might do the trick, but I don't think any main gun is likely to one-shot them. And if you don't deal with all of them quickly, the snipers are likely to fire back or throw explosives.

Their major weakness appears to be a very low PSI strength, so inside confined areas I guess mind control or panic should wreck them. But this is not really an option in the open areas.
It's strange, but a Gauss sniper rifle, even with a coefficient of 60%, hits Mouton with one shot much more often than a turbo sniper rifle. What is even more paradoxical, the Gauss sniper on sectopods is also more effective than the turbo sniper rifle. This is according to my humble observations.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 15, 2023, 08:32:05 pm
I have since then found out that plasma sniper rifle is the most reliable way of one-shotting mutons (far away). The downside is that it takes so big a chunk of TUs to fire (you can essentially never fire two shots), so if you're looking for total DPS, turbolaser sniper rifle provides the biggest punch. And I agree, gauss sniper rifles are also surprisingly good overall at the point you've obtained lots of power suits (with the same caveat as plasma sniper rifles: inefficient TU usage).

Also, to avoid most problems caused by mutons on open areas, I strongly suggest skipping turn 1 completely (except possibly throwing smoke) and deploying out only on the next turn. Like most aliens, mutons have aggression 2 so once they get the chance, they waste a lot of their TUs running around. So it makes sense skip the first turn crossfire with full TUs.

Now while I'm at, here's a huge tip (that I discovered myself only in this campaign) for those interested: Thanatonautian Manus is an extremely useful mid-game PSI weapon to take down armored enemies, especially heavy MIBs (always seems to one-shot them), but it also works on many others. With 90-100 PSK it is very accurate and makes tremendous amounts of damage with 0.1 armor effectiveness (with the only limitation being range 20). Felt almost cheesy using it.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on November 15, 2023, 09:49:23 pm
I have since then found out that plasma sniper rifle is the most reliable way of one-shotting mutons (far away). The downside is that it takes so big a chunk of TUs to fire (you can essentially never fire two shots), so if you're looking for total DPS, turbolaser sniper rifle provides the biggest punch. And I agree, gauss sniper rifles are also surprisingly good overall at the point you've obtained lots of power suits (with the same caveat as plasma sniper rifles: inefficient TU usage).

Also, to avoid most problems caused by mutons on open areas, I strongly suggest skipping turn 1 completely (except possibly throwing smoke) and deploying out only on the next turn. Like most aliens, mutons have aggression 2 so once they get the chance, they waste a lot of their TUs running around. So it makes sense skip the first turn crossfire with full TUs.

Now while I'm at, here's a huge tip (that I discovered myself only in this campaign) for those interested: Thanatonautian Manus is an extremely useful mid-game PSI weapon to take down armored enemies, especially heavy MIBs (always seems to one-shot them), but it also works on many others. With 90-100 PSK it is very accurate and makes tremendous amounts of damage with 0.1 armor effectiveness (with the only limitation being range 20). Felt almost cheesy using it.
This manus has an explosion radius.)) It can be guaranteed to kill sectopods with a single shot. We need to try it out)).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 16, 2023, 02:34:27 pm
For Mutans, if you haven't gained access to plasma or laser weapons yet (you should) Black opts sniper rifles with tritanium clips. With a good aim soldier you can get 3 well aimed shots off (which typically kill a muton) and still have half your TU's left.
Etherals however are a different story.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: zee_ra on November 18, 2023, 01:32:39 am
Oh, great! This mission was a hell earlier, considering how early it spawns, and now with unspecified amount of reinforcements...  :'(The only mission where Dagon's Staff was useful...

Dagon's Staff is pretty good on underwater missions as well.  You could even take a city with it (if your agents are high in psiStrength).  This obviates the need to research sonic weapons by that point (which may or may not be possible by then).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on November 18, 2023, 08:04:19 am
All right, the date is 2000-05-28. At least half a year passed since I researched the last available topic in ufopedia. I have sacked around 7 Shogg villages: 1 antman, 6 spiders. No sight for Etherials, no sight for MiB commanders. In order to save last remnants of my sanity, I decided to stop here. (...)

For what it's worth, I'm kinda in the same spot here (SH). February 2000. I've researched everything, even the MIB commander. Essentially the only thing I need to progress to the endgame is Ethereal commander: because this is missing, I can't hijack MIB-Alien communications and can't get to the MIB lunar base and progress from there onwards. In this case, the chances of ethereal retaliation mission is (only) 33 %.

Some months there have been the ethereal retaliation mission, but most of the times they haven't found my bases. Arbiters seem so tough that I don't think you can shoot them down even if you deployed 4 tormentors (but I could be wrong, didn't test this). So shooting down the arbiter and getting the commander that way does not seem to be an option.

I've already dealt with one Ethereal retaliation against my base earlier, but trying to find the commander among all the ethereals was a pain (no visual clues - in contrast to most other alien commanders). And there were 20+ sectopods crammed in the hangars (essentially every hangar square was filled by a sectopod). If you need to capture the commander, you can't shoot shrapnel rockets and need to deal with them some other way. If I bothered to continue this campaign, I guess I'd have to try to kill them off with lasers the next time and not use explosives at all.

Maybe there should be other and/or more probable ways of obtaining Ethereal commander to progress to the lunar trail. I've already had two lunar missions (UAC base and MAGMA cosmonauts), so it shouldn't all that difficult to find the rest on the moon. Or just require any alien commander for this (preferable), so that you don't get locked out of the late game so easily.

The current requirements are somewhat strange in any case, because Cydonia or Bust requires any commander, Ethereal GM and Lunar colony. But you can't the latter two without ethereal commander in any case. So there is actually no point in obtaining and researching any non-ethereal commander, and you'd probably want to avoid that because doing so  triggers researchRetaliation (15 % per month).

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Juku121 on November 18, 2023, 11:49:50 am
So shooting down the arbiter and getting the commander that way does not seem to be an option.

I've already dealt with one Ethereal retaliation against my base earlier, but trying to find the commander among all the ethereals was a pain
How do you even get Ethereal retaliations? As far as I can see, the only 'regular' mission the Ethereals fly (so you can shoot them down for retaliation) is Alien Domination, and that's only a 1/3 chance to get them for that. They don't fly anything else with Battleships or Lab Ships. Domination itself isn't a terribly common mission, either.


I'm not even sure Domination retaliation with Ethereals is intended, since they've been culled from everywhere else. Maybe they should get their own 'retaliationMission' entry?



Edit:
Arbiters seem so tough that I don't think you can shoot them down even if you deployed 4 tormentors (but I could be wrong, didn't test this).
I tried. Four Tormentors with Heavy Stormlances and Gauss Cannons easily demolished an Arbiter. The problem is getting the saucer to stay put while you blast it, since it's the fastest UFO around and even your super-fast interceptors can't catch up with it (not a problem, it's an HK) nor make it stay in combat (the problem). Incidentally, the same holds for the Troop Ships, another PITA as far as its mission set goes. Since XCF doesn't have tractor beams and Arbiters are progression-critical or near as, it's IMO a bit of a dick move to remove the player's ability to meaningfully intercept them.

Edit2: I take it back. It's quite possible to re-engage and shoot it down in a second engagement. You can even make it crash the first time, if the damage rolls go your way. Tried Fusion Balls, too, but I don't think they have the damage output to be meaningfully better than Stormlances. A pity, as FBs have been kinda useless since the OG - no sustained damage compared to regular weapons, hefty research requirement, uses irreplaceable resources as ammo.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: psavola on November 18, 2023, 12:32:21 pm
How do you even get Ethereal retaliations? As far as I can see, the only 'regular' mission the Ethereals fly (so you can shoot them down for retaliation) is Alien Domination, and that's only a 1/3 chance to get them for that. They don't fly anything else with Battleships or Lab Ships. Domination itself isn't a terribly common mission, either.

I'm not even sure Domination retaliation with Ethereals is intended, since they've been culled from everywhere else. Maybe they should get their own 'retaliationMission' entry?

Ethereal retaliation missions are scripted in missionScripts (33% chance) once you have researched MIB commander (+vocab) and have not researched Ethereal commander yet. So, the mission script is clearly intended to allow capturing the ethereal commander, but capturing one requires luck (RNG, given that 33 % chance is relatively low, targeting the right base) and/or patience (not to accidentally kill it).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on November 18, 2023, 12:51:49 pm
But Ethereal retaliation (which is the Arbiter missions) isn't 'true' retaliation and doesn't target bases ('targetBaseOdds' is the default, so 0)?

Edit: Okay, it's still a retaliation objective mission, so it can target a base, but it's not too likely to do so on its own without scouts coming in first. Still, probably (much) better than getting a Domination dogfight retaliation, but nowhere near as good a chance as four Tormentors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 18, 2023, 02:58:33 pm
But Ethereal retaliation (which is the Arbiter missions) isn't 'true' retaliation and doesn't target bases ('targetBaseOdds' is the default, so 0)?

Edit: Okay, it's still a retaliation objective mission, so it can target a base, but it's not too likely to do so on its own without scouts coming in first. Still, probably (much) better than getting a Domination dogfight retaliation, but nowhere near as good a chance as four Tormentors.

There are no forward scouts. Essentially there is just one wave, an Arbiter is trying to find a base in some area. If it does, it goes away and soon another will come back straight for your base. Edit: Now that I examine the saves, actually the latter one is DREADNOUGHT, not Arbiter. Sorry for that  discrepancy.

The former looks in a save as something like follows:

  - "month: 34 script: etherealRetaliation id: 564 type: STR_ETHEREAL_RETALIATION race: STR_ETHEREAL region: STR_ANTARCTICA targetZone: -1 targetArea: -1"

The latter looks like follows:

  - "gameTime: 1999-10-13 10:00:00 ufoId: 181 ufoType: STR_DREADNOUGHT race: STR_ETHEREAL region: STR_ANTARCTICA trajectory: __RETALIATION_ASSAULT_RUN missionId: 564 missionType: STR_ETHEREAL_RETALIATION"
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on November 18, 2023, 03:52:34 pm
Well, the Arbiter is the scout. It's just not a particularly good one, since there's only one of it and it doesn't have a better anti-X-Com radar than any other UFO. It also flies around pretty fast, which probably makes it worse as a radar platform. I don't know how frequent UFO radar scans are, though.

On the other hand, since it's not the Arbiter that does the base assault, you don't get a Commander, either. Dreadnoughts don't carry Commanders. So we're back to either downing the Arbiter or getting an Ethereal Domination mission, shooting it down and hoping for a regular retaliation.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.0: Beyond Human
Post by: Akamashi on November 18, 2023, 06:31:27 pm
For what it's worth, I'm kinda in the same spot here (SH). February 2000. I've researched everything, even the MIB commander. Essentially the only thing I need to progress to the endgame is Ethereal commander: because this is missing, I can't hijack MIB-Alien communications and can't get to the MIB lunar base and progress from there onwards. In this case, the chances of ethereal retaliation mission is (only) 33 %.

Some months there have been the ethereal retaliation mission, but most of the times they haven't found my bases. Arbiters seem so tough that I don't think you can shoot them down even if you deployed 4 tormentors (but I could be wrong, didn't test this). So shooting down the arbiter and getting the commander that way does not seem to be an option.

I've already dealt with one Ethereal retaliation against my base earlier, but trying to find the commander among all the ethereals was a pain (no visual clues - in contrast to most other alien commanders). And there were 20+ sectopods crammed in the hangars (essentially every hangar square was filled by a sectopod). If you need to capture the commander, you can't shoot shrapnel rockets and need to deal with them some other way. If I bothered to continue this campaign, I guess I'd have to try to kill them off with lasers the next time and not use explosives at all.

Maybe there should be other and/or more probable ways of obtaining Ethereal commander to progress to the lunar trail. I've already had two lunar missions (UAC base and MAGMA cosmonauts), so it shouldn't all that difficult to find the rest on the moon. Or just require any alien commander for this (preferable), so that you don't get locked out of the late game so easily.

The current requirements are somewhat strange in any case, because Cydonia or Bust requires any commander, Ethereal GM and Lunar colony. But you can't the latter two without ethereal commander in any case. So there is actually no point in obtaining and researching any non-ethereal commander, and you'd probably want to avoid that because doing so  triggers researchRetaliation (15 % per month).



Strangely, in my last playthrough, I didn't have any problems with capturing the Ethereal commander. I passed the company on medium difficulty on Ironman, and did not make a single download. Protecting the base is generally the easiest way to get any prisoner. I always do defensive construction by cutting off the hangars and elevator from the rest of the base with modules with surveillance cameras. I throw smoke into this module, and through the smoke, on a tip, I completely safely destroy all unnecessary enemies, leaving the prisoners I need alive. Thanks to such tactics, there is no difference which of the enemies is against you. But I always have several dozen dogs on any base for reconnaissance, and there are also enough agents to use all sorts of utensils like a brain probe.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 19, 2023, 06:01:23 am
I got to the alien invasion on my 1st playthrough but took a break. I feel it was going quite well, I was able to get 2 interceptors available with railguns the day they invaded, and soon enough had 3 and that japanese alien ship. Starting getting some UFOs down but then stopped playing

But I feel I would like to start all over, this time trying to do ironman as best I can so I can feel more accomplishment now that I better understand the tech tree of getting to promotion III

Some questions:

1. What is the best way to avoid or survive the grenades on first 1-2 turns coming out of a ship? This is the main cause of reloads. It was depressing to have a first turn pass on the same old cult manor map , and have some kind of grenade kill your best troops. I was able to get better at surviving this by having good enough accuracy to kill most visible troops at first turn, but with leaving troop transports? What should be done? I did get a habit of throwing smoke but it sometimes is not enough

2. How do you aquire the railguns for your troops? I was lucky in my playthrough to aquire some type of research for it early so I had railgun cannons for my interceptors, but had no way to give them to my troops, not having aquired an actual troop style gun. Is it perhaps in the under ground missions? Or do only certain aliens have it? I just like the idea of them and would like to know where to find them in the first place. I had lasers and sonic weapons and had yet to find one

3. Is tonfer better than the starting beat stick?

4. Is it a bad idea to shoot down every small UFO? I read comments year ago on youtube that it is like hitting a hornet nest and best to leave most of them alone if score can manage this.

5. Is it really so bad to leave missions unattended if you don't need the people or the items in them anymore? As long as dont start going too low on score? youtube playthrough years ago, they had so many missions and so many UFOs that they ignored probably more than half of them, yet still won the game. I wonder if this is still viable? (They would sometimes land somewhere and immediently abandon for no negative score). I do know some missions start to really get annoying to do for the 20th time

6. If you shoot down a UFO and do not go there later, is this negative score? Is this worse than just leaving it alone for score? What is best practice for UFOS that you do not care too much about or perhaps that is too difficult at the moment
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 19, 2023, 08:21:32 am
1. What is the best way to avoid or survive the grenades on first 1-2 turns coming out of a ship? This is the main cause of reloads. It was depressing to have a first turn pass on the same old cult manor map , and have some kind of grenade kill your best troops. I was able to get better at surviving this by having good enough accuracy to kill most visible troops at first turn, but with leaving troop transports? What should be done? I did get a habit of throwing smoke but it sometimes is not enough

Do not go on cult etc. missions at daytime (but to monsters missions yes). Do not use crafts which have exterior lighting (e.g. dragonfly). Use smoke grenades before deploy. Skip the first turn completely if you're safe inside the craft (to avoid enemy reactions with full TU). You don't need to do all of these, but one or more of these will definitely help, depending on circumstances.

The night time deployment is usually the only thing I have needed or used against cults. Essentially you throw out flares and deal with the exposed enemies with grenades. But you'll have to be extra careful if once you deploy an enemy units sees you immediately, and in some cases you may need to abort then (due to the sniper/spotter described below).

You will need to learn the sniper/spotter mechanic. That is, certain enemy units are 'spotters'. If they see you or you hit them directly, all the 'snipers' can also shoot and throw grenades at you. http://xcf.trigramreactor.net is your friend in browsing enemy unit descriptions.

You'll need to either deal with all the spotters in non-direct ways (e.g. throw grenades, not shoot them), all the snipers before you hit spotters directly, or have some kind of cover (certain crafts, buildings, etc.) which will prevent firing and grenades.

These have been my keys to SH IM campaigns. You almost never get grenaded if you strictly follow these principles.
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2. How do you aquire the railguns for your troops? I was lucky in my playthrough to aquire some type of research for it early so I had railgun cannons for my interceptors, but had no way to give them to my troops, not having aquired an actual troop style gun. Is it perhaps in the under ground missions? Or do only certain aliens have it? I just like the idea of them and would like to know where to find them in the first place. I had lasers and sonic weapons and had yet to find one

There is no such weapon as 'railgun' in the game. I guess this is a translation issue and you refer to something else, but I have no idea what.

You don't need interceptors until 1999, though at certain point the syndicate retaliates against one of your bases. YMMV whether you want to shoot it down or let it pass.

Black-ops Sniper Rifle and Auto-Sniper are probably the best weapons in the early game, because like most other snipers, armor is only 75% effective and when you have maxed accuracy, they are very accurate and deadly. Before you get to them, you'll probably need to go through at least hunting rifles and bolt rifles. You'll obviously also need shotguns for close combat against lightly armored enemies. In the early or mid-game, that's essentially all the guns you absolutely must have.

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3. Is tonfer better than the starting beat stick?

I guess you refer to 'tonfa'. For stunning enemies at close range, I suggest electric club, then briefly electric prod, and finally once you get it, stun rod. For further away, shotgun with blunt batons in the very early game (unarmored opponents), later MILKOR or grenade launcher with blunt ammo.

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4. Is it a bad idea to shoot down every small UFO? I read comments year ago on youtube that it is like hitting a hornet nest and best to leave most of them alone if score can manage this.

There are two playstyles (at least in vanilla). In one, you avoid shooting down anything, because then the aliens will not start retaliation missions against your bases and you get the UFO intact. In the second, you shoot down everything (also the retaliating alien craft, but if they get big enough, you no longer can). I think by far the more common strategy is shooting down everything you can.

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5. Is it really so bad to leave missions unattended if you don't need the people or the items in them anymore? As long as dont start going too low on score? youtube playthrough years ago, they had so many missions and so many UFOs that they ignored probably more than half of them, yet still won the game. I wonder if this is still viable? (They would sometimes land somewhere and immediently abandon for no negative score). I do know some missions start to really get annoying to do for the 20th time

You can check the despawn and abort penalties of each mission in xcf.trigramreactor.net.

In the first two-three years or so, I'd strongly recommend doing all the missions you can (and abort only those which you have no chance at). In the first 6-12 months or so, there are plenty of missions you have no chance at, so you may need to do 'go there, shoot for XP and abort' a dozen or more times in your campaign. You should already know which  missions are doable with the resources and crafts you have. The game gets much easier if you get bigger score and better funding from the council based on good scores, so you'll definitely want to maximise your score, not just struggle along.

In the late game, when the money is no longer a faction, you can likely skip many missions if you don't want to bother.

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6. If you shoot down a UFO and do not go there later, is this negative score? Is this worse than just leaving it alone for score? What is best practice for UFOS that you do not care too much about or perhaps that is too difficult at the moment

You get points for shooting down. AFAIK, there are no negative points for ignoring shot-down ufo. But obviously you don't get the points which you'd get from killing or capturing the aliens and all the loot. So, going after everything that you can handle is strongly advisable until the point when the money is no longer an issue.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 19, 2023, 04:10:45 pm

There is no such weapon as 'railgun' in the game. I guess this is a translation issue and you refer to something else, but I have no idea what.


I believe in FMP (Final Mod Pack) Railguns are the same as Mass Driver Rifle in XCF.


Black-ops Sniper Rifle and Auto-Sniper are probably the best weapons in the early game, because like most other snipers, armor is only 75% effective and when you have maxed accuracy, they are very accurate and deadly. Before you get to them, you'll probably need to go through at least hunting rifles and bolt rifles.


As always.. You give solid advice. (thumbs up).

I typically begin having a break through when I acquire the hunting rifle. It's a game changer in early game. It's accurate and lethal for most enemies with only 2 good shots.
Once Black ops Auto sniper rifle becomes available it's game changer #2.

The "sniper/spotter mechanic" you spoke of is a great tactic. Took me a while to pick up on this technique. But when it's mastered, missions become a lot easier and a lot less dead soldiers.




Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on November 19, 2023, 11:03:54 pm
I got to the alien invasion on my 1st playthrough but took a break. I feel it was going quite well, I was able to get 2 interceptors available with railguns the day they invaded, and soon enough had 3 and that japanese alien ship. Starting getting some UFOs down but then stopped playing

But I feel I would like to start all over, this time trying to do ironman as best I can so I can feel more accomplishment now that I better understand the tech tree of getting to promotion III

Some questions:

1. What is the best way to avoid or survive the grenades on first 1-2 turns coming out of a ship? This is the main cause of reloads. It was depressing to have a first turn pass on the same old cult manor map , and have some kind of grenade kill your best troops. I was able to get better at surviving this by having good enough accuracy to kill most visible troops at first turn, but with leaving troop transports? What should be done? I did get a habit of throwing smoke but it sometimes is not enough

2. How do you aquire the railguns for your troops? I was lucky in my playthrough to aquire some type of research for it early so I had railgun cannons for my interceptors, but had no way to give them to my troops, not having aquired an actual troop style gun. Is it perhaps in the under ground missions? Or do only certain aliens have it? I just like the idea of them and would like to know where to find them in the first place. I had lasers and sonic weapons and had yet to find one

3. Is tonfer better than the starting beat stick?

4. Is it a bad idea to shoot down every small UFO? I read comments year ago on youtube that it is like hitting a hornet nest and best to leave most of them alone if score can manage this.

5. Is it really so bad to leave missions unattended if you don't need the people or the items in them anymore? As long as dont start going too low on score? youtube playthrough years ago, they had so many missions and so many UFOs that they ignored probably more than half of them, yet still won the game. I wonder if this is still viable? (They would sometimes land somewhere and immediently abandon for no negative score). I do know some missions start to really get annoying to do for the 20th time

6. If you shoot down a UFO and do not go there later, is this negative score? Is this worse than just leaving it alone for score? What is best practice for UFOS that you do not care too much about or perhaps that is too difficult at the moment
There are many ways to deploy relatively safely. My favorite is to send dogs to their deaths. I wouldn't be surprised if more than a thousand dogs died in my current passage on the Ironman superhuman.  But the death of the best agents is inevitable even so. As well as the imminent death of entire crafts with full squads and arsenals. Canceling or ignoring missions is not a problem, it's a necessity. There is no way without it. Often you have to balance on the verge of collapse, but cancel missions or ignore them. And the most important advice is to play without looking back at whether it was possible to go a better way. On Ironman, too much is decided by chance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 20, 2023, 07:05:31 am
okay thanks all for advice, and yes I meant to say, Mass Driver weapons, I am wondering where you get them? The description to me sounds like a rail gun. I am assuming it is worse weapon than other late game things but I just like the idea of them lol

I will say in my first playthough I also really liked the hunting rifle noticing it to be quite effective

For the spotter/sniper mechanic, if the spotter is killed do the snipers still see+shoot you if the sniper themselves are not in range to see you?

For my 2nd playthrough I have been doing missions at night against cultists now that I know how view ranges work a bit better, and I have had a lot less deaths so far
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 20, 2023, 07:10:00 am
okay thanks all for advice, and yes I meant to say, Mass Driver weapons, I am wondering where you get them? The description to me sounds like a rail gun. I am assuming it is worse weapon than other late game things but I just like the idea of them lol

You can get them from the MIBs. I have never found much use for them myself, but I guess this depends on what else you have, how many MIB missions come at your way, what else you have to research, etc.

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For the spotter/sniper mechanic, if the spotter is killed do the snipers still see+shoot you if the sniper themselves are not in range to see you?

The snipers will snipe/grenade you even if you kill the spotter directly.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 20, 2023, 07:01:17 pm
okay thanks all for advice, and yes I meant to say, Mass Driver weapons, I am wondering where you get them? The description to me sounds like a rail gun. I am assuming it is worse weapon than other late game things but I just like the idea of them lol

Mass driver weapons are cumbersome in my opinion. They can be lethal but they are not a good long range weapon. Gauss or lasers are my favorites. But even those have long range issues. However heavy Gauss has 150 damage power and if you're close, you can take out a Sectopod easily (the most feared enemy machine).

But I'll tell ya, those Sectopods don't like portable lasers/Turbo lasers either  ;D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Sneak Dog on November 20, 2023, 08:39:27 pm
Never a fan of the heavy gauss. Poor accuracy and the 0~200% damage roll means half the time when it does hit it deals no damage vs. the sectopod. A pair of gauss snipers should do it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 22, 2023, 12:45:38 am
oh alright, didn't know it had such kind of damage

ah well

btw it is august 1997 and I am still promotion I due to having only seen 1 black lotus foot soldier this entire game (sadly bled out by reaction fire, and died laying beneath my troop with medipack in hand  :'(

I got a -140 score event for not beating black lotus enough, I assume for not researching the network still

BUT I did just get a mission where it says the black lotus, due to being hidden so long from Xcom, that they essentially took control of a local city and corrupt policeforce , I am assumign some black lotus footmen will be at this mission so I can finally progress

Is this too late to recover from? I have not wasted time with other things, I have 15 scientiests and have quite good progress with the research I can do, got bored enough to research alien containment (sadly too late for a military shot down ufo mission but I lost barely anyway because I Could only reach it with a car... was really hoping for that cash boost but I told myself no reloading! died to the last alien and a panic that ran the other guy into the alien)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 22, 2023, 02:55:53 am
oh alright, didn't know it had such kind of damage


Is this too late to recover from? I have not wasted time with other things, I have 15 scientiests and have quite good progress with the research I can do, got bored enough to research alien containment (sadly too late for a military shot down ufo mission but I lost barely anyway because I Could only reach it with a car... was really hoping for that cash boost but I told myself no reloading! died to the last alien and a panic that ran the other guy into the alien)

You should fine. You'll have other chances to get cult members. Early missions for cults are recurring and allow failures. Just minimize casualties.

Note: Here are some of my game notes over the past year or so. There's some spoilers here but it will help you figure out who you looking for.

Early game 1.0:
Cult apprehensions.
Strange life forms.
Crop circles.
Cattle mutations.



Cult apprehensions will hopefully lead to the successful capture of lower ranking gang members of each cult. These missions have one cult member per mission. If you fail to capture cult members alive to interrogate them don’t worry this will be a reoccurring mission allowing you several chances to capture one alive.
Researching these lower ranking cult members will pop research for each of the 4 cults. The following is a list of lower ranking cult members and their respective cults.

Red Dawn- Red Dawn ganger
Black Lotus- Black Lotus follower
Church Of Dagon- Supporter of Dagon
Exalt- Exalt infiltrator

------------------------------------------------------------------

Early game 1.1:
Cult Safehouses.
Cult Outposts.
Soul harvest.
Spiders Nest.


Once you have researched a cult you will open up research for each cult's “Network”. You’ll also begin having “Safe Houses” missions. These are small storage shacks lightly guarded by lower to mid ranked cult members. Your best strategy here is to capture a mid ranking cult member from each cult. The following list a list of mid ranking cult members and their respective cults.

Red Dawn- Red Dawn lad or Red Dawn Pioneer
Black Lotus- Black Lotus assassin or Black Lotus Footman
Church Of Dagon- Disciple of Dagon, Priest of Dagon
Exalt- Exalt Goon or Exalt Enforcer

------------------------------------------------------

Early game 1.2:

To terminate a cult you must capture and interrogate cult leaders. Most leaders can be found on Cult Forward missions (and HQ). These are mini bases with loads of heavily trained cult members. Below is a list of higher ranking cult leaders.

Red Dawn- Red Ops Soldier And Red Dawn Coordinator
Black Lotus- Black Lotus Witch and Black Lotus Avatar
Church Of Dagon- Chosen of Dagon And Sorcerer of Dagon
Exalt- Exalt Goon or Exalt Master And Exalt Brainer


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on November 22, 2023, 05:40:22 am
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btw it is august 1997 and I am still promotion I
Latest campaign, I got Promo II in nov 97. It's not too late, but with some RNG you may get barraged with a lot of manors, like I did, I'm counting 12 manors around jun 98. Clearing out manors is now about half by playtime, so... it can be reasonable to restart here, and try to end cults faster. But that's only if you get bad manor RNG. They aren't impossible or too hard to beat, just a slog to get through.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 22, 2023, 05:21:35 pm
Is this too late to recover from? I have not wasted time with other things, I have 15 scientiests and have quite good progress with the research I can do, got bored enough to research alien containment (sadly too late for a military shot down ufo mission but I lost barely anyway because I Could only reach it with a car... was really hoping for that cash boost but I told myself no reloading! died to the last alien and a panic that ran the other guy into the alien)

There is almost zero chance of being able to deal with military-shot-down UFO with a car (or van) without major save scumming or extreme luck. Or most other missions for that matter, especially in higher difficulty levels. Even helicopter can be risky, and I'd rather prefer the osprey. But you can get helicopter before you get all the cult networks, so part of your pain is self-inflicted for ignoring obtaining better transport.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on November 25, 2023, 12:39:37 pm
Please explain. I defeated the syndicate, and I received a package with spartanism. I looked at the database a bit, and found that the chance of unpacking spartanism from the packege is 25%. Does this mean that I am very lucky, or am I wrong and spartanism is a guaranteed reward for defeating the syndicate?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 25, 2023, 01:40:23 pm
Please explain. I defeated the syndicate, and I received a package with spartanism. I looked at the database a bit, and found that the chance of unpacking spartanism from the packege is 25%. Does this mean that I am very lucky, or am I wrong and spartanism is a guaranteed reward for defeating the syndicate?

No, you always get spartanism from researching the parcel. You're confusing this with the monthly chance to receive the parcel after defeating the syndicate, which is 25 %:

  - type: STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL
    eventWeights:
      0:
        STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL: 100
    researchTriggers:
       STR_SYNDICATE_TESTAMENT_DECRYPTED: true
       STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL_RECEIVED: false
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 25

....

 - name: STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL
    cost: 3
    points: 3
    needItem: true
    destroyItem: true
    lookup: STR_SPARTANISM
    dependencies:
      - STR_SYNDICATE_TESTAMENT_DECRYPTED
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on November 25, 2023, 02:09:54 pm
No, you always get spartanism from researching the parcel. You're confusing this with the monthly chance to receive the parcel after defeating the syndicate, which is 25 %:

  - type: STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL
    eventWeights:
      0:
        STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL: 100
    researchTriggers:
       STR_SYNDICATE_TESTAMENT_DECRYPTED: true
       STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL_RECEIVED: false
    firstMonth: 0
    executionOdds: 25

....

 - name: STR_SYNDICATE_MYSTERIOUS_PARCEL
    cost: 3
    points: 3
    needItem: true
    destroyItem: true
    lookup: STR_SPARTANISM
    dependencies:
      - STR_SYNDICATE_TESTAMENT_DECRYPTED

This means that sooner or later, but the package with spartanism will be a reward for the defeated syndicate.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on November 25, 2023, 03:00:20 pm
This means that sooner or later, but the package with spartanism will be a reward for the defeated syndicate.

Yes. The chance is so low that sometimes this takes very long time (in my recent campaign, over 6 months) to get the reward. This seems a bit unfair, but it's up to SS to fix. It would be trivial to raise the odds to say, 50 or 70%.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on November 25, 2023, 09:42:04 pm
Yes. The chance is so slow that sometimes this takes very long time (in my recent campaign, over 6 months) to get the reward. This seems a bit unfair, but it's up to SS to fix. It would be trivial to raise the odds to say, 50 or 70%.
Before that, I would remove the 40 od bonus for spartanism. This breaks the game very much.

Or change the penalty to psi strength. That would be more interesting.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 2.4: Flesh and Circuitry
Post by: 0xEBJC on November 28, 2023, 06:33:32 am
I would still like to reduce the number of aliens. I don't really understand how it all works, I need examples. To understand the editing of what affects precisely the high complexity. I'm afraid to ruin everything. Can you please write an example, the difficulty is impossible, the mission is to storm the alien base, it says 50 such aliens, change it to 40. Or something like that? I really would be very grateful.

Hey Zhorov

I know this is an old post, not sure how often people check in, but I wanted to say my two bits for you or anyone else coming across this thread:

Although I like to play at an easier difficulty level than super human, I found this guide for playing super human very helpful!
 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)  :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

  https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11579.0.html
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 30, 2023, 12:31:00 am
How many engineers should one have per workshop? I never understood how it works

If I have 2 workshops how many engineers should I have
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 30, 2023, 12:42:34 am
Also how does one use psiclones? I don't understand what I'm looking at when reading it's stats or extra info

Does it give an innate bonus like the description implies?

Also, what is the best defense against ghosts? I think I might have asked this before, but I always lose troops like crazy to ghosts and not sure what can give better protection or how to mitigate it
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on November 30, 2023, 01:17:03 am
Psiclones don't give any kind of stat bonus - I'm not sure this would even be possible right now, even with y-scripts.

What they do is serve as a really crappy stun rod with a panic effect. The panic hit is pretty strong if you have psionically gifted agent, but usually just once per turn and at melee range, so not terribly useful, even with the stun rider.

The best defence against ghosts is offense. Psi weapons tend to go through armour like a knife through butter, and poltergeists can be dangerous during missions where you can't wear any kind of strong armour. You might get a little bit of defence by wearing excessively thick armour - but even then, the effect is marginal (10%) to none (0%).


As to workshops, I generally remove the space limits myself, so my answer would be "as many as you can cram in there". With limits, I would guess perhaps 80-90% of full capacity, depending on what you're manufacturing most often. Do note that your workshop capacity is not limited to just workshops (hangars are the big extra contributor), so you might want to fill the two workshops to 100 and have a few hangars' worth of extra space. OTOH, I tend to play a very altered manufacturing game, so take all this with a big grain of salt. :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on November 30, 2023, 01:28:41 am
what is the best defense against ghosts? I think I might have asked this before, but I always lose troops like crazy

Scout drones or dogs to snuff out their locations. Don't underestimate the power of dogs. I've lost tons of them. They are indispensable yet also disposal compared to a soldier with good stats.
They have high Time units. Use them to your advantage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 30, 2023, 08:41:14 am
Okay thanks all for advice, so I should get 50 engineers for a workshop then ? So expensive ! Lol

I did not know hangers contributed to work space, does this only occur when they are empty? That must be why I was confused, about running out of work space

Thajks for top about dogs, it is my second attempt at this mod, first playthroigh I never used dogs but now I'm doing mostly missions at night and I really like them now. 2 in front with a incendiary grenade in case they die, or a high explosive.. they are much more useful than a rookie!

Btw, if dog has a primed Explosive, and they die on  opponents turn, what prime # should I set it to if I want it to explode at the end of my turn? (So I have time to run away if they get shot near my troops on opponents turn)

Also if I want it to explode at the beginning of my next turn, (setting it down on my turn) what do I set it to?

---

I wanted to try the xcom Rats too but getting 10 for a farm is not easy! Btw on my first playthrough I tamed some kind of Minotaur but nothing really happened after i researched it/manufactured. Is it possible to get a Minotaur?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on November 30, 2023, 09:08:11 am
Come back and complain when you need to staff multiple three-large-workshop bases. Your current woes are nothing compared to what I inflict on myself. :D

Hangars just contribute workshop space, empty or not empty.

Given that primers start counting down from the moment you set them, unless you re-prime your dogs every turn, there's not much you can do to achieve that grace period. Suicide dogs explode when killed, that's how it is.

If you do have the time to fiddle, 0 is the end of your turn, 1 is the end of enemy turn, 2 is the end of your next turn, etc. But the timers are always counting (unless you use 'fuseTriggerEvents', but sadly there's no trigger for 'the one carrying me died'). Proxies or land mines might do something more like you want.

Minotaurs are base defences in a box. So you only get them when you get attacked in your own place, and they might be a little fiddly even then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on November 30, 2023, 09:48:11 am
OHHHHHHH

I always assumed the timer started as soon as was no longer held because they didn't blow up in inventory

Understand now

Btw with the mines, how do they trigger exactly? Only stepping directly on them? People seem to like them a lot , I put them on dogs too, but it seems hard to throw them very far

Btw wish there was a way to hide walls in order to see ground items better, that's another reason I don't use them much I'm afraid of forgetting they are there
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on November 30, 2023, 10:14:31 am
I always assumed the timer started as soon as was no longer held because they didn't blow up in inventory
Well, you can change them to blow up in the inventory, too, if you wish. >:D


Mines are basically heavier proxies. They trigger when someone move into one of the 8 adjacent tiles - but not when someone walks under them or hovers over them, if you're into that. Or onto the tile directly, but that's largely limited to fliers and elevators.

If mines seem too heavy, proxies are some ways up the tech tree. There are even improved proxies in XCF.


Mines are very much supposed to lurk and surprise you. :P There can even be mines that are invisible on the minimap (and/or have no floorobj), but thankfully these haven't migrated over from Piratez. Well, except for one little surprise.

No way to hide walls that I know of. X-Com was before that became a thing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on November 30, 2023, 10:45:36 am
Quote
Btw wish there was a way to hide walls in order to see ground items better, that's another reason I don't use them much I'm afraid of forgetting they are there
Check minimap, activated grenades/mines show as red crosses. I do forget about the mines all the time, makes for some hilarious moments. And/or semi-intended tactic - throw a mine at mook, move a dog to blow it up.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on December 01, 2023, 01:33:49 am
Nothing is more depressing than one of your best guys running to an osprey while on fire and realizing forgot to load the extinguishers 😢

Btw do people on fire sometimes extinguish themselves? I thought I saw it happen on a playthrough vid once , and if so how is it calculated for a fire to go out on someone ? Is it just a base %

Edit:

He survived after 3-4 turns must have been the extra health from bio enhancement that kept him going 😂 fire went out
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 01, 2023, 10:32:11 am
Yes, people and aliens and tanks and dogs and so on all get extinguished in a few turns. Details (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Incendiary#Damage).

Smoke grenades also put out ground fires, but sadly not units.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 01, 2023, 07:12:46 pm
Nothing is more depressing than one of your best guys running to an osprey while on fire and realizing forgot to load the extinguishers 😢


Coming soon in The Xcom files newest update: "Stop, drop and roll feature"  ;D

This literally happened to me last week. Forgot the extinguisher. Guy was on fire for a few turns. Health loss not bad but was in sickbay for a while.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Sneak Dog on December 01, 2023, 08:07:36 pm
Coming soon in The Xcom files newest update: "Stop, drop and roll feature"  ;D

This literally happened to me last week. Forgot the extinguisher. Guy was on fire for a few turns. Health loss not bad but was in sickbay for a while.

Give kneeling a 5% chance to stop being on fire? :D
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 02, 2023, 02:32:29 pm
Give kneeling a 5% chance to stop being on fire? :D

You are on to something.

Continuous kneeling/standing putting fire out.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Belcanzor on December 05, 2023, 04:02:59 am
I just start your mod incredible mod.
First question:
Whats the deal with the Mudranger? Some kind of internal joke?
And: An entire hangar for just a car? I try not add much mods and play as pure of your design, but I know there is an hangar mod.
Again: Incredible!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zee_ra on December 05, 2023, 04:52:04 am

Mines are very much supposed to lurk and surprise you. :P There can even be mines that are invisible on the minimap (and/or have no floorobj), but thankfully these haven't migrated over from Piratez. Well, except for one little surprise.


Is the "little surprise" a charge that attempts to blow my weapon stash on mansion defense missions?  If so, how could I eliminate it proactively?  The aim is to prevent too much inventory management in/out and to avoid losing expensive weapons (like e.g. psi-amps, medi-kits, very custom rockets).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on December 05, 2023, 05:00:38 am
One ways of "protecting" the stash is CTRL+SHIFT+X at base -> craft -> inventory equipment screen. That will remove all unused equipment from the stash.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Nerro on December 05, 2023, 03:57:43 pm
I just start your mod incredible mod.
First question:
Whats the deal with the Mudranger? Some kind of internal joke?
[...]
Mudranger is very usefull if you need to bring a lot of soldiers to something very upsetting that can spawn too close to you base if RNG hates you. (You will see what I'm talking about in time.)
Other than that, I find it useless.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 05, 2023, 07:32:42 pm
Is the "little surprise" a charge that attempts to blow my weapon stash on mansion defense missions?
No, it's the
lurking Cybermites. I think they're only found on the Moon, and hatch pretty quickly, so not a big issue. But a proxy mine based on that could be nasty.



Mudranger is also handy for assaulting cult HQs, since those spawn in fixed locations. But, yes, it's a rather niche craft otherwise. Myself, I made it into a proto-Osprey, 12 men with global reach (the idea was that they fly to a military base and borrow an APC from there) but as slow as a van or thereabouts.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Belcanzor on December 06, 2023, 02:47:39 am
Mudranger is very usefull if you need to bring a lot of soldiers to something very upsetting that can spawn too close to you base if RNG hates you. (You will see what I'm talking about in time.)
Other than that, I find it useless.
Perhaps buy it at the start was a bad idea. Thanks for answer. I m still exploring the mod and restart several times because I fail to understand this is a total conversion , as example: first thing I did in my 1st try was using all the money on hire scientist at day 1 :p
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Belcanzor on December 06, 2023, 02:49:30 am
No, it's the
lurking Cybermites. I think they're only found on the Moon, and hatch preyyu quickly, so not a big issue. But a proxy mine based on that could be nasty.



Mudranger is also handy for assaulting cult HQs, since those spawn in fixed locations. But, yes, it's a rather niche craft otherwise. Myself, I made it into a proto-Osprey, 12 men with global reach (the idea was that they fly to a military base and borrow an APC from there) but as slow as a van or thereabouts.
Thank you. I try to find that proto-Osprey. I hope some way of lab appear soon because I got tons of stuff to investigate and just 5 people.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 06, 2023, 03:13:38 am
There is no proto-Osprey for you, because it was a private change I made (one of many). :(

Better/extra labs you gotta research yourself. Getting new types of labs up and running (as well as building new bases to create more lab space) is a major strategy in and of itself.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on December 06, 2023, 06:44:20 am
Thank you. I try to find that proto-Osprey. I hope some way of lab appear soon because I got tons of stuff to investigate and just 5 people.

As Juku hinted, you're going to have a very uphill battle if you intend to go for osprey with only 5 researchers. Your primary focus at start should be at expanding the research capacity to 15 via intelligence center and bio labs ASAP (ideally within the first couple of months). Then you can relax a bit and focus on researching the other useful stuff. Depending on circumstances (such as RNG and money), the next step is either to build more bases, possibly with more researches or wait for science lab (additional 25 researchers, costs 2M to build and scientists also a lot, so it may make sense to save your pennies in preparation for a while). You can get science lab after promotion 2 so before OSPREY (which also requires having all cult 'operations' researched ie. successful cult outpost missions with 'leader' captured, while Promotion 2 does not).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Belcanzor on December 07, 2023, 03:31:12 am
As Juku hinted, you're going to have a very uphill battle if you intend to go for osprey with only 5 researchers. Your primary focus at start should be at expanding the research capacity to 15 via intelligence center and bio labs ASAP (ideally within the first couple of months). Then you can relax a bit and focus on researching the other useful stuff. Depending on circumstances (such as RNG and money), the next step is either to build more bases, possibly with more researches or wait for science lab (additional 25 researchers, costs 2M to build and scientists also a lot, so it may make sense to save your pennies in preparation for a while). You can get science lab after promotion 2 so before OSPREY (which also requires having all cult 'operations' researched ie. successful cult outpost missions with 'leader' captured, while Promotion 2 does not).
I just unlocked the buildings for extra scientist but I dont have money because I made another base :p I need like 2 month of savings. I love it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 07, 2023, 04:01:59 pm
I just unlocked the buildings for extra scientist but I dont have money because I made another base :p I need like 2 month of savings. I love it.

The beginning and early mid game are tough times (money wise). It's what makes the game more challenging. At certain junctures of the campaign it feel like you're fighting elite enemies with only wooden spears and rocks.

My advice is to sell, sell, sell. Sell anything you are not going to use. Stockpiling/hoarding is useless in this game because of storage limits. Knowing what to sell and what to keep though, that in itself is an art form.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 07, 2023, 08:35:21 pm
So I read the tech tree wrong and thought you needed to beat all 4 cults to get prom. 3. So I didn't go for alien containment and when I realized I had already defeated Dagon. Now I'm in november 98 and I get no Deep One spawns.

How screwed am I?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on December 07, 2023, 09:06:54 pm
So I read the tech tree wrong and thought you needed to beat all 4 cults to get prom. 3. So I didn't go for alien containment and when I realized I had already defeated Dagon. Now I'm in november 98 and I get no Deep One spawns.

How screwed am I?

You still have a monthly 20 % chance of 'Deep Ones Rituals' mission if you have researched Messegers of Dagon (which you can get as you have researched Dagon Sorcerer). So you should still be able to unlock the underwater plotline (not that you need it, but there are some benefits). Only 20 % chance might mean that if RNG is unlucky you might have to wait for it for half a year, even a year in the worst case.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on December 08, 2023, 05:29:18 am
Quote
How screwed am I?
In what regard? To get containment? There's plenty of opportunities for this.
To get deep one? Like psavola writes, not very likely, but there are some options.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 08, 2023, 10:43:16 pm
In what regard? To get containment? There's plenty of opportunities for this.
To get deep one? Like psavola writes, not very likely, but there are some options.
You still have a monthly 20 % chance of 'Deep Ones Rituals' mission if you have researched Messegers of Dagon (which you can get as you have researched Dagon Sorcerer). So you should still be able to unlock the underwater plotline (not that you need it, but there are some benefits). Only 20 % chance might mean that if RNG is unlucky you might have to wait for it for half a year, even a year in the worst case.
I was worried about beating the game. Didn't know under water was optional. Cheers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 09, 2023, 12:03:09 am
I was worried about beating the game. Didn't know under water was optional. Cheers.

Your good. I've beat the game several times without going underwater once. The despawn penalty's are low enough to ignore the occasional ones that pop up.
The only real ones you can't ignore are
the 4 main cults, The Syndicate, Men in Black and all Aliens. You can also throw Osiron, Cult of Apocalypse and the Hybrids as well. Those aren't necessarily mandatory, it's more of a score hit
.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: 0xEBJC on December 12, 2023, 04:32:58 pm
To follow the recent discussions, I'm curios to hear other opinions about what necessary or not for completing research topics?

Reason I'm asking is that I've come to the conclusion "in my opinion" that a lot of the research is intended to be skipped... by design you play the game first go around... and research everything... fall behind in progress to the timeline when aliens attack and ultimately have to restart a playthough knowing what is junk and what to skip... this may take multiple iterations too for success.

Anyway, I've started a request to Meridian for OXCE+ to support hiding research topics, so I could hide and ignore junk topics or just never look at them again.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11593.0.html

Feel free to comment there as I think the more agreement might spur a decision to implement it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 12, 2023, 06:18:23 pm
Eh, I think the multitude of research options, the giant lore section and the need to priotitise your topics are part of the charm. And also more 'realistic'. Ain't nobody gonna tell you their research project sucks IRL. :D

Honestly, all the baseball bats and minor cultists can be covered so quickly that there's no great need to filter them out. And the actually meaningful topics you don't want to remove, unless they absolutely don't vibe with your tactics. What would be really useful to hide are repeat aliens, MiBs, BO purchases etc that take a long while and are random at best and inconsequential at most.

Plus, you can already use the existing toggle, 'show only new' and queing up important topics into the base's own list to achieve most of this functionality. With some base inventory management (deciding who to keep imprisoned and where, and shipping off currently useless artifacts to a deep storage base), it can be improved even further.



TLDR: It would be a somewhat handy feature, but not as handy as it looks like at first glance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 17, 2023, 01:39:06 am
I have researched the HQ upgrade and I want to replace the old ones, which worked, but I had to reload a save and now the main base says that the facility is in use so I can't upgrade or remove it. It worked in an other base, but no matter what I do I can't upgrade in the main base. I tried to cancel all research and remove scientists but it keeps saying it's in use. What can I do?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Belcanzor on December 17, 2023, 04:40:01 am
Refuse/Accept trade with weapon dealers as consequences? I mean the "evil" ones.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on December 17, 2023, 05:26:00 am
Quote
I have researched the HQ upgrade and I want to replace the old ones, which worked, but I had to reload a save and now the main base says that the facility is in use so I can't upgrade or remove it. It worked in an other base, but no matter what I do I can't upgrade in the main base. I tried to cancel all research and remove scientists but it keeps saying it's in use. What can I do?
HQ gives: 25 storage, 3 prison space, 5 scientists. Need to free that up.

Quote
Refuse/Accept trade with weapon dealers as consequences? I mean the "evil" ones.
Small one-time score penalty/reward
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 17, 2023, 06:28:17 am
Ninjad by SL. 😢


Note that the 'prison' is 'live' robots, not cultists, animals or aliens.

I mean the "evil" ones.
What's 'evil' here? The refusal, the traders, the consequences? :P


As already said, trading or not trading with the cultists gives/removes some score and, well, gives you access to their shopping list.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 17, 2023, 02:22:15 pm
I mean the "evil" ones.
The real evil ones are the
1500 point loss.

And pissing off council (which they get over it)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 17, 2023, 03:53:55 pm
HQ gives: 25 storage, 3 prison space, 5 scientists. Need to free that up.
Didn't know about storage, thanks.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on December 17, 2023, 09:56:31 pm
I noticed something strange. There is a hybrid warehouse mission. And all the enemies in this mission are anywhere, but definitely not in the warehouse. It makes you experience a cringe, to tell the truth.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Abyss on December 18, 2023, 05:47:05 pm
I noticed something strange. There is a hybrid warehouse mission. And all the enemies in this mission are anywhere, but definitely not in the warehouse. It makes you experience a cringe, to tell the truth.
But Osiron warehouse is exactly opposite)
BTW lorewise it could be justified by means that hybrids are smarter, than humans:)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Akamashi on December 18, 2023, 06:56:42 pm
But Osiron warehouse is exactly opposite)
BTW lorewise it could be justified by means that hybrids are smarter, than humans:)
They are smarter and therefore leave their warehouse with a bunch of questionable things without a watchman.))
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Abyss on December 22, 2023, 10:10:39 am
They are smarter and therefore leave their warehouse with a bunch of questionable things without a watchman.))
No, they watch. From the opposite house. Smart approach.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Simi822 on December 24, 2023, 12:42:26 pm
Dear all,

is there like a chronology of events and if some steps are not made then some are not apearing?

is there like a road map?

I ask as I am now in the phase with lot of UFO sightings,  + I destroyed the first alien base...

and  I did in the underdark - crab ppl, made deal with the lizardman and with mummies... got Spider queen mission BUT never had a Antman missions /will they come later?/

and did multiple underwater missions - next will be undersea city

and had the missions with the special ppl like - morozova, Island of monsters, Kung Fu master etc

and destroyed the Yankee cult, the Ninja kult and the Dagon cult BUT never got the Red cult mansion appear /so that kult base never came? as now the UFO part started will it come?/

had the Syndicate tower mission, wizkids, etc missions - I think there the next will be UAC missions /but for one mission the normal car is needed...so I need to buy one again.../

I do look into the Wiki but a road map when which event can appear would be nice...is there any? /or thats the magic that you cannot get everything in one run?/
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Sneak Dog on December 24, 2023, 01:25:30 pm
There's a whole bunch of different storylines. They're mostly unrelated, and will all just be happening. Sometimes the randomness can produce funny results, like how the Red Dawn barely appeared for you. They'll appear yet. There's probably also a bunch of Red Dawn cult houses for you to raid and kidnap a high ranking member from to progress the storyline. Main thing to do is making sure you're capturing and researching new dudes and researching progression researches. Which it sounds like you have been doing.

I don't think any of the storylines can be aborted, but sometimes you can skip a mission. If you've made a deal with the lizardpeople, then I don't think the antman missions will come. But they're also no longer needed for anything. So you're good.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Simi822 on December 24, 2023, 05:20:56 pm
yes Red dawn cult house still comes...but I captured and researched them all...I am missing the Red Dawn Coordinator /I got early the D Factory  but there I killed everybody/ and the Red dawn Cult Forward Base or Red Dawn Manor...is not apearing....but will continue fighting the Aliens and do the Underwater missions etc
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on December 24, 2023, 08:27:33 pm
The RNG can result in weird results. I have in some cases had to wait for 12+ months for a forward base mission. The good news for you is that starting from January 1999, the chances to get Cult Forward Base increases quite a bit. So it's more likely finally get one once the game progresses. The bad news is that they have probably spawned quite a few manors then.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on December 25, 2023, 07:40:44 pm
I had an ai get killed in underwater mission while being a scout underwater basic craft , by a sonic weapon , it did leave a corpse on top of the USO and I completed mission

But I see no way to revive?

Is there no way to revive ai, i don't really understand how ai deaths work so I'm afraid to use them and get them killed
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Nerro on December 25, 2023, 10:17:18 pm
You can revive them in the "Agents" menu. It is a transformation (bottom left menu).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on December 26, 2023, 02:26:50 am
Dear all,

is there like a chronology of events and if some steps are not made then some are not appearing?



Your really at the mercy of RNG and whatever it feels like giving you. You'll have to wait for a cult forward mission to pop.
Cult missions typically go something like this:

Cults Missions:
There are four main types of cult missions. Each mission category progresses (becomes more difficult) with time and each mission category contains more important members that need to be captured and interrogated.

Mission types:

Cult Apprehensions:
These are the easiest. This is one cult member wandering around town looking to cause some good, honest mayhem. Capture him alive if possible. That will lead to valuable research after interrogation (research) is complete.

Cult Safehouses:
These are a bit more difficult. Playing on “experienced”, there are usually 8 cult members per safehouse. There is also one more cult member type that needs to be captured. Still consider these missions fairly easy for semi experienced agents.

Cult Outposts:
Level three of difficulty when it comes to cult missions. Playing on “experienced”, there are usually 12 cult members per Outpost. There is also one more cult member type that needs to be captured.

Cult Forward:
These are the most difficult. Expect heavy fire, enemies throwing grenades, etc. Playing on “experienced”, there are usually 20 cult members per Outpost. In most cases your main objective is to capture a cult boss. This will open up research for “Cult HQ missions”.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on December 26, 2023, 01:43:29 pm
Is there any point to radar craft like Hawkeye? Why not just cover most landmass with radar base anyway? The idea of constantly sending out long range radar craft would probably add hours of fiddling so I'm afraid waste resources making one

Does anyone use these and for what purpose?


You can revive them in the "Agents" menu. It is a transformation (bottom left menu).

Thank you !!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on December 26, 2023, 03:18:13 pm
Quote
Is there any point to radar craft like Hawkeye?
I don't use it, but I guess the point is to not bother with
Quote
Why not just cover most landmass with radar base anyway?
Which means base management, base defences, etc. etc. There is some hotkey that makes the craft automatically refuel or something, I think?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on December 26, 2023, 04:18:38 pm
I don't use it, but I guess the point is to not bother with Which means base management, base defences, etc. etc. There is some hotkey that makes the craft automatically refuel or something, I think?

Oooo that would be kinda cool if there is way to automate it,

If anyone knows how please lmk
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on December 26, 2023, 04:55:49 pm
Quote
If anyone knows how please lmk
Just make it patrol, no hotkey needed (supposedly).
From ruleset:
autoPatrol   Should this craft automatically return to its patrol destination after refueling?
Set to true for Hawkeye/Darkstar
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: theophilos on December 27, 2023, 06:18:53 pm
Ok thanks btw I just had an interceptor shot down and I see the pilot is transferring after 70 hours to return, but another interceptor shot down but I dont see pilot returning? Is it possible for pilot to not survive? How's Air combat deaths work
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on December 27, 2023, 06:26:53 pm
Ok thanks btw I just had an interceptor shot down and I see the pilot is transferring after 70 hours to return, but another interceptor shot down but I dont see pilot returning? Is it possible for pilot to not survive? How's Air combat deaths work

From the ruleset:

pilotsEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance: 75
crewEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance: 97

This means that there's 1/4 chance that a shot down pilot is lost.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Stone Lake on December 28, 2023, 03:30:08 am
Also, this applies only to defensive dogfights. If you're attacking passive UFO and lose, survival chance is zero.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Meridian on December 28, 2023, 08:25:19 am
Also, this applies only to defensive dogfights. If you're attacking passive UFO and lose, survival chance is zero.

This was true until OXCE v7.10

From OXCE v7.10 onwards, it also applies to passive UFOs: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11547.msg159268.html#msg159268
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 30, 2023, 10:57:15 pm
From looking at the numbers it seems that napalm grenades are worse than incendiary. Shouldn't it be the other way around or am I missing something?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 30, 2023, 11:34:19 pm
Napaldm does direct damage, incendiary just lights stuff on fire. 'Power' for many incendiary/smoke weapons is only used to calculate blast radii.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 31, 2023, 02:27:43 am
Napald does direct damage, incendiary just lights stuff on fire. 'Power' for many incendiary/smoke weapons is only used to calculate blast radii.
Cheers. Any way to know if this how an item works by looking at it?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 31, 2023, 11:27:59 am
Not unless you're willing to check the nerdpedia.

You can also just chuck them at enemies and see which one makes them flash red/keel over.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: zombieguy223 on December 31, 2023, 12:53:14 pm
Cheers. Any way to know if this how an item works by looking at it?
You can see the damage values of weapons in a unit's inventory by holding down the ALT key and hovering your mouse over the weapon.
This shows you the damage range where the name of the weapon normally is. So it shows that incendiary grenades have a damage range of 5-10 (which is the special damage range that incendiary and smoke weapons use), while the napalm grenades have a damage range of 20-60 (which is a range of 50-150% of their base power 40).

I'd recommend giving this thread a read, it details a lot of the useful hotkeys that are in OpenXComExtended.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=6424.0
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: donk on December 31, 2023, 03:36:58 pm
You can also just chuck them at enemies and see which one makes them flash red/keel over.
Well, that's the problem. Incendiary made them flash too.

You can see the damage values of weapons in a unit's inventory by holding down the ALT key and hovering your mouse over the weapon.
This shows you the damage range where the name of the weapon normally is. So it shows that incendiary grenades have a damage range of 5-10 (which is the special damage range that incendiary and smoke weapons use), while the napalm grenades have a damage range of 20-60 (which is a range of 50-150% of their base power 40).

I'd recommend giving this thread a read, it details a lot of the useful hotkeys that are in OpenXComExtended.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=6424.0
Thanks, I actually already have. But it's easy to miss some features...  :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on December 31, 2023, 04:40:34 pm
Yeah, it does, my bad. :-[ Although it does so less often and the enemies tend to stay alive better when using incendiaries, but I guess conducting extensive field tests for any new piece of equipment is going to get old quite fast. zombieguy's suggestion is better, provided you know what your mod's fire damage range is.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: HelmetHair on January 01, 2024, 09:55:11 pm
Having a blast this playthrough.

I had not encountered the military vs zombies battle before. Yowza!

I unfortunately my poor team of four with MP5s and kevlar eat a rocket and all died....

 ;D

Much more fleshed out and cohesive in story and arcs.

My biggest complaint is not being able to define an algorithim for equipment distribution to my troops.

or

having a set of saved load outs that I could define by agent and then load the ship from their loadouts with a button.

and/or

I'd also love a "range" that gives the ability to shoot at targets with practice rounds or a kill house to practice in.


However, what I'm really asking for is basically a better needle for the digital heroin you're pushing.... more please :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on January 01, 2024, 10:22:27 pm
My biggest complaint is not being able to define an algorithim for equipment distribution to my troops.
or

having a set of saved load outs that I could define by agent and then load the ship from their loadouts with a button.
There are personal loadouts per soldier, but only one per, and you still need to load them manually.

There's also the 'alternate loadout system', but that's also soldier and not mission-centric.

I tend to use specialised ships with their own troops because of that. Kinda expensive, though.

Edit: I suppose you could suggest this as an OXCE feature, but saves are quite badly bloated already. Although commendations are still a lot worse than this. /edit

I'd also love a "range" that gives the ability to shoot at targets with practice rounds or a kill house to practice in.
Quick Battle/New Battle. You can import (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10708.msg148348.html#msg148348) your save, too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on January 01, 2024, 10:37:11 pm
There are personal loadouts per soldier, but only one per, and you still need to load them manually.
..
I tend to use specialised ships with their own troops because of that. Kinda expensive, though.

You can use F5 to save equipment templates and F9 to load them. These work both on the soldier equip screens and on craft screens.

If you have multiple crafts and many bases, or you want to have vastly different kinds of equipment per mission, craft templates might be for you. Soldier templates can be used to have different equipment for various soldier roles or different kinds of missions (in XCF in particular 'crop circles' or 'environment' missions could use a different template than 'real' missions', for example).

Managing the templates takes some time, but if you like template-based equipping (either soldiers or crafts), there are plenty of ways to do that.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on January 01, 2024, 10:44:14 pm
I assumed saved soldier/craft loadouts were a given and not sufficient. I use them, and they're good, but not good enough.

The problem with saved templates is that you have to change the loadouts manually for each agent. Which is a pain to do for more more than a few agents, especially since you now have to figure out what their new role/loadout is (only one universal soldier-specific loadout, sadly). I imagine this is also HH's problem.

Crop circles aren't too different. Undercover, underwater, sewers, space/Dimension X, these are the main culprits.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: HelmetHair on January 01, 2024, 11:27:41 pm
You can use F5 to save equipment templates and F9 to load them. These work both on the soldier equip screens and on craft screens.

If you have multiple crafts and many bases, or you want to have vastly different kinds of equipment per mission, craft templates might be for you. Soldier templates can be used to have different equipment for various soldier roles or different kinds of missions (in XCF in particular 'crop circles' or 'environment' missions could use a different template than 'real' missions', for example).

Managing the templates takes some time, but if you like template-based equipping (either soldiers or crafts), there are plenty of ways to do that.

Ok, i'll experiment some more in my workflow and see if that helps.


I assumed saved soldier/craft loadouts were a given and not sufficient. I use them, and they're good, but not good enough.

The problem with saved templates is that you have to change the loadouts manually for each agent. Which is a pain to do for more more than a few agents, especially since you now have to figure out what their new role/loadout is (only one universal soldier-specific loadout, sadly). I imagine this is also HH's problem.

Crop circles aren't too different. Undercover, underwater, sewers, space/Dimension X, these are the main culprits.

Yep, You are both correct variously in my opinion.

If I could define an algorithm via a script to handle how I like loadouts, then it would be great.

So, I hit "Best equip to algorith" or something or define a hotkey and it simply equip the agent as I see fit according requirements as defined.... I dunno, call it a mission profile loadout or whatever. a set of buttons or keys to operate it would be great.

so let's say I'm going to deal with some cultists...

I have all the equipment in the van or whatever...

I press the template button for "non lethal" in QD and all my agents get a tazer or electric club in the QD slot.

I press the "Primary weapon loadout" and all my agents are equipped with an MP5 and two magazines

etc. etc.

the point is to have easy to use tools that you can configure to speed up the process of equipping a lot of troops to the tactical situation to player prefrence and incorporate it into their workflow to remove tedium.... Better needle and all that.

I could make a mockup and show the logic of the process flow in a chart... I'm not sure if I'm being clear.

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on January 02, 2024, 12:01:51 am
I press the template button for "non lethal" in QD and all my agents get a tazer or electric club in the QD slot.

I press the "Primary weapon loadout" and all my agents are equipped with an MP5 and two magazines

etc. etc.

the point is to have easy to use tools that you can configure to speed up the process of equipping a lot of troops to the tactical situation to player prefrence and incorporate it into their workflow to remove tedium.... Better needle and all that.

How is that different from saving an equipment template with MP5 and two magazines + electric club in QD slot, saving it to slot 1, and then when equipping the soldiers, just pressing '1' to get the loadout for you?

The templates are more cumbersome when/if you want 5 different kinds of layouts for your guys, but not in the scenario you describe.

If your real scenario is that you're equipping different gun on each agent but want the QD be the same (or have two combinations), the situation is trickier but if the situation repeats all the time, maybe you just need a specific loadout for this. Just replacing the gun is very fast with shortcuts (CTRL-click  to drop or auto-equip). What OXCE could improve on is where the extra magazines are automatically put (Brutal-AI source-mod improves this).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: HelmetHair on January 02, 2024, 06:18:48 am

Can you swap two vehicles in flight without having to use an empty hanger? I just tried it and it did not work.

Oversight, purposeful, or am I just doing it wrong lol?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: psavola on January 02, 2024, 08:53:41 am
No, you can't directly. OXCE engine limitation.

But if you have a third base with an open hangar, you can do essentially the same thing if it's reachable from another base. First fly-transfer a craft from the first base there (intercept - choose the craft and  base - transfer). Now that the first base has an open hangar, transfer the second craft from the second base to the first. After that you can immediately swap the destination of the first craft to the second base.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on January 02, 2024, 09:12:44 am
Can you swap two vehicles in flight without having to use an empty hanger?
I eagerly await your tales of managing aircraft with a garment hook. ;D



But, yeah, two-way swaps are not supported. Frankly, the whole 'craft transfer via flight' thing is borderline cheaty to me, since it also instantly transfers ground staff, fuel, supplies, logistics, soldiers on board and their logistics, etc. With zero cost, unlike base transfers. Meridian has a somewhat similar opinion (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11648.msg160558.html#msg160558).

But one can't deny the functionality is already mostly there, it's just the extra hangar and perhaps some 'ignoreInCraftEquip' flags that stand in the way.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Meridian on January 02, 2024, 09:35:41 am
No, you can't directly. OXCE engine limitation.

Feature, not limitation.

What OXCE could improve on is where the extra magazines are automatically put (Brutal-AI source-mod improves this).

I'd say BAI actually makes it worse.
It's too hardcoded and too one-person-preference.

There is a request for OXCE for something similar: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7868.0.html
I may even get to it, before my xmas vacation ends.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 02, 2024, 10:35:23 pm
You can use F5 to save equipment templates and F9 to load them. These work both on the soldier equip screens and on craft screens.



What does the SAVE+ do in F5 ?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on January 02, 2024, 10:53:13 pm
Saves your armour, too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Belcanzor on January 03, 2024, 05:16:08 am
Is there a way for strip armor from Sindicate Security and/or MIB Enforcer?
The Cyberweb robot captured "alive" can be reprogrammed?

I just found Kitsune, amazing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 03, 2024, 02:16:58 pm
Is there a way for strip armor from Sindicate Security and/or MIB Enforcer?

No, not right now anyway.

The Cyberweb robot captured "alive" can be reprogrammed?

No, although I'm considering something like that.

I just found Kitsune, amazing.

It is. :)

Aaaaaaand X-Com Files 3.2 has been released. Happy New Year, people! :)

- New missions: Den of Villainy (terrain by Brain_322), The Exorcism, Environmental Alert with Men in Black.
- New outfit: Clergy (most graphics by Dioxine).
- New unit: M.A.G.M.A. Representative.
- New item category: Religious Gear.
- New Ufopaedia articles and research tree adjustments.
- 4 new Caves maps (3 by Dioxine).
- New Junkfarm map (by Dioxine).
- More general enemy base destruction message.
- Increased Hovertanks' night vision range.
- Excluded Assault Suit, Power Suit, Flying Suit and Stormtrooper Armor from underwater missions.
- Gillman Hero gives Power Armor instead.
- Chasers have dodge.
- Overhauled civilians' dodge values.
- Position Markers now actually have anti-camouflage.
- MiB Commanders yield Personal Armor on research.
- Increased chances for Mysterious Parcel from Syndicate to 100%.
- Improved Car, Luxury Car and Van sprites (by 0xEBJC).
- Improved Fenrir, Werecat, Black Werecat and Shambler sprites (by ImpMontezuma).
- Improved Fat Tourist and Bikini Babe sprites (by Osobist).
- Improved Celatid paperdoll (by Mikkoi).
- Improved Mongorn Fist sprite (by Dioxine).
- Improved Colt Commando sprite (by Alex_D).
- Added description to the M.A.G.M.A. Chainsawbot Blade.
- Reclamation of Aether Laboratory map is bigger (to fit any craft).
- Hybrid convoys no longer travel on the globe.
- Bats are excluded from science-themed missions.
- Renamed Durathread Vest for dogs to Durathread Gear.
- MiB Commander drops Damaged Personal Armor.
- MiB Lunar Base awards Spacer.
- Enabled Osiron Goon Disguise article.
- Moved Scientist's Data Floppy from Vincent's pocket to a table.
- Fixed Trident capacity (from 14 to 15) and interior.
- Fixed Sonic Shotgun Focused Clip manufacturing prerequisites.
- Fixed .308 cal Sniper Rifle's minimum range.
- Fixed Haunted Farm terrains.
- Fixed some cars' height.
- Fixed destroyed streetlight height.
- Fixed cult retaliations.
- Fixed UAC Aerospace Lab roof.
- Fixed Caves, Cargo Ship and CYBERPIPES walking sounds and SCANGs (by Dioxine).
- Fixed MiB Engineering Ship lift.
- Minor fixes.

As usual, many thanks to everyone who helped making this release richer: ImpMontezuma (better monster paperdolls), Osobist (better civilian sprites), 0xEBJC (better vehicle sprites), Mikkoi (better Celatid paperdoll), Alex D. (better weapon sprite), Dioxine (outfits, maps) and Brain_322 (nightclub terrain).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: the nomad on January 03, 2024, 04:05:20 pm
Sweet! And Happy New Year!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: donk on January 03, 2024, 05:01:54 pm
Is it possible to update your current game to the new version or will stuff break?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 03, 2024, 05:22:00 pm
I have played a campaign or two with various 3.2 snapshots for months (updating now and then) and I have not noticed any problems. You should be fine.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 03, 2024, 05:50:51 pm
Is it possible to update your current game to the new version or will stuff break?

Nothing should break, I only added and adjusted some stuff. Whenever such problems are possible, I mention them specifically, usually with a solution.

Of course, I am not infallible, so bugs can always happen.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 03, 2024, 06:04:01 pm
No, not right now anyway.

No, although I'm considering something like that.

It is. :)

Aaaaaaand X-Com Files 3.2 has been released. Happy New Year, people! :)

- New missions: Den of Villainy (terrain by Brain_322), The Exorcism, Environmental Alert with Men in Black.
- New outfit: Clergy (most graphics by Dioxine).
- New unit: M.A.G.M.A. Representative.
- New item category: Religious Gear.
- New Ufopaedia articles and research tree adjustments.
- 4 new Caves maps (3 by Dioxine).
- New Junkfarm map (by Dioxine).
- More general enemy base destruction message.
- Increased Hovertanks' night vision range.
- Excluded Assault Suit, Power Suit, Flying Suit and Stormtrooper Armor from underwater missions.
- Gillman Hero gives Power Armor instead.
- Chasers have dodge.
- Overhauled civilians' dodge values.
- Position Markers now actually have anti-camouflage.
- MiB Commanders yield Personal Armor on research.
- Increased chances for Mysterious Parcel from Syndicate to 100%.
- Improved Car, Luxury Car and Van sprites (by 0xEBJC).
- Improved Fenrir, Werecat, Black Werecat and Shambler sprites (by ImpMontezuma).
- Improved Fat Tourist and Bikini Babe sprites (by Osobist).
- Improved Celatid paperdoll (by Mikkoi).
- Improved Mongorn Fist sprite (by Dioxine).
- Improved Colt Commando sprite (by Alex_D).
- Added description to the M.A.G.M.A. Chainsawbot Blade.
- Reclamation of Aether Laboratory map is bigger (to fit any craft).
- Hybrid convoys no longer travel on the globe.
- Bats are excluded from science-themed missions.
- Renamed Durathread Vest for dogs to Durathread Gear.
- MiB Commander drops Damaged Personal Armor.
- MiB Lunar Base awards Spacer.
- Enabled Osiron Goon Disguise article.
- Moved Scientist's Data Floppy from Vincent's pocket to a table.
- Fixed Trident capacity (from 14 to 15) and interior.
- Fixed Sonic Shotgun Focused Clip manufacturing prerequisites.
- Fixed .308 cal Sniper Rifle's minimum range.
- Fixed Haunted Farm terrains.
- Fixed some cars' height.
- Fixed destroyed streetlight height.
- Fixed cult retaliations.
- Fixed UAC Aerospace Lab roof.
- Fixed Caves, Cargo Ship and CYBERPIPES walking sounds and SCANGs (by Dioxine).
- Fixed MiB Engineering Ship lift.
- Minor fixes.

As usual, many thanks to everyone who helped making this release richer: ImpMontezuma (better monster paperdolls), Osobist (better civilian sprites), 0xEBJC (better vehicle sprites), Mikkoi (better Celatid paperdoll), Alex D. (better weapon sprite), Dioxine (outfits, maps) and Brain_322 (nightclub terrain).
My respects
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Meridian on January 03, 2024, 07:55:54 pm
Was it really necessary to quote the whole original post to say 2 words?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: HelmetHair on January 03, 2024, 08:49:42 pm
I eagerly await your tales of managing aircraft with a garment hook. ;D

But, yeah, two-way swaps are not supported. Frankly, the whole 'craft transfer via flight' thing is borderline cheaty to me, since it also instantly transfers ground staff, fuel, supplies, logistics, soldiers on board and their logistics, etc. With zero cost, unlike base transfers. Meridian has a somewhat similar opinion (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,11648.msg160558.html#msg160558).

But one can't deny the functionality is already mostly there, it's just the extra hangar and perhaps some 'ignoreInCraftEquip' flags that stand in the way.

 ;D ;D

Yes, I always wash my craft on delicate and line dry them before they get blown to pieces by plasma.... don't you!?!?!? :)

I have a different perspective on the craft. There are three abstractions on how the logistics chain of a particular are explained and how it coorelates to resources of money...

1. Rent - It is a dollar amount per month and you get to use the craft as you wish, as much as you want. The logistics are containerized and mobile with a phone call.

2. Buy- The craft is built by a third party. The airframe or chassis is purchased outright and logistics is handled completely by X-Com with all of the parts being globally available. You do whatever yoo want because you own the craft and can buy stuff easily.

3. Build- The craft is built by X-Com and mission critical logistics are handled exclusively by XCom logistics. You use the craft as you see fit knowing that the golden BB is real and all parts are as modular possible and utilize as much possible already available off the shelf components.


in otherwords, you are already paying for the cost of transfers of men and material by buying, renting, or building a craft and paying for it's fuel and maintence directly in a relational business relationship through those abstractions rather than a transactional one with the transfers from base to base abstracted UPS or merchant shipping.

As far as FEELING cheaty. Sure... totally agree on the logistical side of things. However, I believe you discounted something. By using a craft to move around cargo like that, you introduce the risk of having that craft be destroyed by enemy action on the geoscape. This is not the case with simple transfers and thus the transactional cost... invisble security lol!

My bases are set up in such a way as to be able to support each other in moving troops and their gear around to firefight specific situations. The logisitics  would not support a direct flight from the base of origin of the solider or craft, so a leap from approach sometimes has to happen. The three that situations where I've taken tacitcal advantage are briefly...

1. Aliens attempt a base raid on a listening post and interception base in an activity hot region. Beat them there with two full transports of dudes so instead of facing a few rookies they had over two dozen hard bitten veterans to contend with. Single turn victory rather than a protracted anxiety filled encounter.

2. Everyone one was really wounded at the only base close enough to directly respond to a high score penalty for despawn mission. The party copter visited a few choice bases on the way to assemble the scratch team and then went and smoked it, while the other team recovered.

3. Fighter skipping so that a ufo encounter may be over a period of a day or so and can close the noose and deploy a team to rip and run alien goodies.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.1: Lights in The Sky
Post by: Juku121 on January 03, 2024, 09:22:39 pm
I have a different perspective on the craft. There are three abstractions on how the logistics chain of a particular are explained and how it coorelates to resources of money...
My point isn't really so much about money rather than the 'last mile' logistics. Whoever you pay for the maintenance has to move shop, plus all the stuff and people on board who also have to have their admin moved half the world over. You can't just move the end point of your logistics pipeline whereever you wish for zero cost and a few hours of flight time. Modular or no, containerised or no, this stuff just doesn't happen with the snap of some fingers, as much as one might wish it did. All the more if you live in a bunker that's smack in the middle of the Amazon or some desert hellhole that hasn't even heard of UPS.

in otherwords, you are already paying for the cost of transfers of men and material by buying, renting, or building a craft...
Given I don't really use the transfer trick, I'm feeling mighty ripped off now. >:( :D These contractors sure made a sweet deal.

...transactional one with the transfers from base to base abstracted UPS or merchant shipping.
My headcanon is that transfers are still X-Com, or some external division of it, you just allocate some extra money to their budget when you give the shipping order. I kinda doubt a shadow org is just going to UPS their priceless alien plasma guns over. :) Maybe they piggy-back on commercial ventures, but with extra security and cover-up shenanigans.

By using a craft to move around cargo like that, you introduce the risk of having that craft be destroyed by enemy action on the geoscape. This is not the case with simple transfers and thus the transactional cost... invisble security lol!
Some crafts are undetectable to UFOs, and UFO aggression radii aren't that big, so most of the time it's just a feeling of security, not actual security. If that.

My bases are set up in such a way as to be able to support each other in moving troops and their gear around to firefight specific situations.
I mean, if it meant you could refuel at your bases a la MOO and derivatives, I wouldn't have much of a problem. Or even run defence missions and then return to the home base. But it's much more than just that.

Aliens attempt a base raid on a listening post and interception base in an activity hot region. Beat them there with two full transports of dudes so instead of facing a few rookies they had over two dozen hard bitten veterans to contend with.
Not sure this is actually an argument in favour, because that's using a questionable mechanic to substitute a quick fix for long-term planning of base defences and even building defence facilities altogether. That is, it just short-circuits a whole segment of Geoscape strategy. Basically, it's the 'doom stack' problem in X-Com flavour.

Everyone one was really wounded at the only base close enough to directly respond to a high score penalty for despawn mission. The party copter visited a few choice bases on the way to assemble the scratch team and then went and smoked it, while the other team recovered.
And that's similar, circumventing the wounded/sanity mechanic via logistics shenanigans. Not quite as bad and somewhat more realistic, though.

Fighter skipping so that a ufo encounter may be over a period of a day or so and can close the noose and deploy a team to rip and run alien goodies.
Not sure what this even means. Tracking a UFO via base-hopping and hoping it lands?



Anyway, I was a fan of early X-Com fanfiction, which mostly had well-defined teams in individual bases and placed quite some emphasis on setting up a local interception and transport network, not to mention nation-based friction between bases. And large lead-ups to multi-base raids on strategic targets. So maybe that biases me here, too, on top of the game design issues.



Edit: Anyway, this is all not particularly relevant since the functionality has been in the game forever, there's no way to turn it off, and I can't really begrudge others for interesting and clever applications of it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Vakrug on January 04, 2024, 12:39:29 pm
Aaaaaaand X-Com Files 3.2 has been released. Happy New Year, people! :)
Thanks, but...
Agreed, but the problem is bigger than just Kitsune. I plan to remodel the craft tech tree with various prerequisites, like I've done with Sectopods.
What about the progress on this important change promised some time ago? It is somewhat important for me and I hesitate to start a new campaign without it. (This is how sick I am of Kitsune!)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 04, 2024, 12:51:21 pm
Thanks, but...What about the progress on this important change promised some time ago? It is somewhat important for me and I hesitate to start a new campaign without it. (This is how sick I am of Kitsune!)

Sorry, won't happen soon. Basically, I don't know how to approach this problem. What I think needs to be done is make a general tech tree, something like for making Sectopods, with individual technologies and engineering solutions which lead to specific crafts. And I'm not prepared for this, I know next to nothing about aviation and how it's supposed to develop in the future, so this is likely to take a while (if it ever happens).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 05, 2024, 12:47:08 am
Thanks for the new release.
Happy new year everyone. Love this place and love all of you, even the moaners and complainers (which includes myself). You guys are like a brotherhood to me for the greatest retro game ever made.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: cartman6x6 on January 05, 2024, 12:49:21 am
hiya, no sure is of a mod or something, but to try run the game with the new update just give me this error

Error for 'STR_ASSAULT_SUIT_KYBEROS_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_FLYING_SUIT_H_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_FLYING_SUIT_KYBEROS_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_FLYING_SUIT_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_POWER_SUIT_H_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_POWER_SUIT_KYBEROS_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_POWER_SUIT_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_STORMTROOPER_ARMOR_H_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_STORMTROOPER_ARMOR_KYBEROS_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.
Error for 'STR_STORMTROOPER_ARMOR_UC_UNDERWATER': Number of battle corpse items for 'corpseBattle' does not match the armor size.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 05, 2024, 05:20:43 am
Quote
hiya, no sure is of a mod or something, but to try run the game with the new update just give me this error
It's because of a mod. Arsenal Additions is broken, there's a fix in the corresponding topic.
Natasha Morozova's broken too, but IDK if anyone fixed that yet.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 05, 2024, 09:58:50 am
SS you forgot to add the 3.2 release tag and put info there on github repo..
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Niewiem on January 05, 2024, 10:14:09 am
It's because of a mod. Arsenal Additions is broken, there's a fix in the corresponding topic.
Natasha Morozova's broken too, but IDK if anyone fixed that yet.
Morozova mod has been updated on mod portsl by his author.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Fiskun1 on January 05, 2024, 02:43:55 pm
- Position Markers now actually have anti-camouflage.

Thank you, now this item will be useful. I used to take him on missions as a distraction.
By the way, how many cells does its anti-camouflage ability affect?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 05, 2024, 04:25:28 pm
Thanks for the new release.
Happy new year everyone. Love this place and love all of you, even the moaners and complainers (which includes myself). You guys are like a brotherhood to me for the greatest retro game ever made.

High five, man! :)

SS you forgot to add the 3.2 release tag and put info there on github repo..

I added the tag, but didn't make a GitHub release. TBH, I didn't think people actually use it. Will fix now.

Thank you, now this item will be useful. I used to take him on missions as a distraction.
By the way, how many cells does its anti-camouflage ability affect?

Check the INFO section on the armour.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: theophilos on January 05, 2024, 10:51:33 pm
Hey guys I'd like to update to new version , what is best way to do this without messing up my save? I'm not the best with computers ,

Do I need to somehow Uninstal everything and then reinstall, but keep my save separate then add it in? Or is it as simple as dragging and dropping the files a certain way and replace all?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 05, 2024, 11:03:11 pm
I added the tag, but didn't make a GitHub release. TBH, I didn't think people actually use it. Will fix now.

(Re: github release tags.)  Probably few do, at least on a regular basis, but if someone ever wants to compare two versions or check the history for specific files (for example), having these might come in handy.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 06, 2024, 12:32:51 am
Hey guys I'd like to update to new version , what is best way to do this without messing up my save? I'm not the best with computers ,

Do I need to somehow Uninstall everything and then reinstall, but keep my save separate then add it in? Or is it as simple as dragging and dropping the files a certain way and replace all?

No need for uninstall anything. it should be as easy as copy/paste for XCF mod location (overwrite).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: theophilos on January 06, 2024, 03:27:37 am
Ok thanks

Btw, can enemies blow up your craft inventory?

I am doing the defending councilor from syndicate mission and it appears a grenade from enemy throw through window at civilian blew up my entire inventory except 16x Tonfa,  8x High Explosive, 3x Sonic Pistol Clip

It is pretty devastating because it destroyed all of my alien laser ammo that I can't make yet , my sonic weapons, and lots of manufactured stuff like all my Dart muskets from bullfrogs

I cant reload because didn't realize equipment could get blown up and have been playing many turns, I never seen it damaged by grenades thrown into osprey

Only realized it destroyed after it gave me earnings about can't requip craft after the battle, of course right after it autosaved geoscape
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 06, 2024, 05:19:23 am
Quote
Hey guys I'd like to update to new version , what is best way to do this without messing up my save? I'm not the best with computers ,
The common advice is - don't update while on battlescape. Also be careful not to have two versions of the mod in the mod folder (that includes archives) - one of them simply won't work and it can be tough to understand why.

Quote
Btw, can enemies blow up your craft inventory?
Yep, same as any other item pile on the map.

Quote
It is pretty devastating because it destroyed all of my alien laser ammo that I can't make yet , my sonic weapons, and lots of manufactured stuff like all my Dart muskets from bullfrogs
Sucks, but it happens. Don't fret over it too much, you'll get more where that come from.

For some battles, where you know things will get blown up, I recommend removing unused items. Use F5/F8 at craft equipment screen to save/restore equipment loadouts. Then, go inventory button -> CTRL+ALT+X to remove loot pile. Then you can use restoer + "add on top" button to add loadouts with "extra" items that you're not afraid to lose, like grenades, medkits, etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: theophilos on January 08, 2024, 02:40:51 am
I followed your advice and moved on I've already forgotten about it 😂 I will survive

Btw what is the eta on a jar head mission? It seems to give pretty early game rewards but it's well into 1999 and nothing so far about it,

Is it just really random time mission with no requirements to spawn , I can't decrypt the syndicate data slate until then

Did get mashinobi twice but they don't count
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: donk on January 08, 2024, 03:53:51 am
So player crafts are not invulnerable after all? That's 2 shots from ship laser turrets.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 08, 2024, 08:19:21 am
Btw what is the eta on a jar head mission? It seems to give pretty early game rewards but it's well into 1999 and nothing so far about it,

Is it just really random time mission with no requirements to spawn , I can't decrypt the syndicate data slate until then

Jarhead terror mission has 7 % chance to spawn with firstMonth 20. So they are not supposed to appear until mid-1998, and after that you've just had bad RNG luck. After you've started investigation of them, there's additional 10 % chance for the factory mission.

Dagon level 2+ manors have a number of jarhead pretenders. So if you want to guarantee getting them (or getting them earlier), you let one manor to survive until second tier and grab it from there.

An early access to jarheads, and thus EMP grenades and mines, makes the game easier against various foes.

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Empiro on January 08, 2024, 10:56:59 pm
The common advice is - don't update while on battlescape. Also be careful not to have two versions of the mod in the mod folder (that includes archives) - one of them simply won't work and it can be tough to understand why.
Yep, same as any other item pile on the map.
Sucks, but it happens. Don't fret over it too much, you'll get more where that come from.

For some battles, where you know things will get blown up, I recommend removing unused items. Use F5/F8 at craft equipment screen to save/restore equipment loadouts. Then, go inventory button -> CTRL+ALT+X to remove loot pile. Then you can use restoer + "add on top" button to add loadouts with "extra" items that you're not afraid to lose, like grenades, medkits, etc.

I don't know if it's possible to mod this or if there would need to be an engine change, but this is one thing I wish the game would change/fix. The thought of X-Com just keeping extra equipment in a big pile on the floor near the exit is kind of amusing to me.

If possible, I'd add some sort of protection on the equipment on that tile, to simulate putting the extra stuff in lockers and such.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chuckebaby on January 09, 2024, 09:31:12 pm
So player crafts are not invulnerable after all? That's 2 shots from ship laser turrets.

I've honestly never seen that before. I have been taken out standing in the Kitsune but never the outer walls open like this.
Also had fire from plasma hit under the ramp and burn soldiers that way too.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 10, 2024, 06:25:59 pm
Quote
If possible, I'd add some sort of protection on the equipment on that tile, to simulate putting the extra stuff in lockers and such.
Get into the mapping, and add locker for each craft you intend to use. Easier said than done, though...

Quote
So player crafts are not invulnerable after all? That's 2 shots from ship laser turrets.
Of course not. Neither are UFOs, or base floors, just hit it hard enough. IIRC all of these break at ~200 damage (100, accounted for tile modifier).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Nerro on January 10, 2024, 08:21:27 pm
I even managed to blow up the craft wall with my own rocket once.
Fun Time ! (https://youtu.be/X-m2fVyk25M?si=izSII3QTdImgPpjG&t=5310)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: donk on January 11, 2024, 06:24:01 pm
How do you make your agents go up in rank? They become agents after one mission, then nothing. I thought there where no ranks after agents, but I checked the wiki and it looks like there is. What's wrong here?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 11, 2024, 06:51:01 pm
Don't bother with ranks, stats don't depend on them, only salary does.
Ranks are limited by amount of soldiers you have.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: theophilos on January 12, 2024, 10:06:08 am
Do I need to update to newest openxcom version? I think I am on whatever version was posted about 6 months ago,

also is there really only 1 location I need to be dragging and dropping the new version?

I see warnings to delete old submods so I will do that at least before putting in the new versions of the submods for sound
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 13, 2024, 08:21:41 am
There is a problem with the capture of the commanders' ethereals. I was plot-wise stuck with it, but I was able to see it for the first time only after a year and a half of playing on the arbiter-ufo. I got so bored that I skipped 95% of the gameplay this 1.5 years, what i waiting to find this commander.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 13, 2024, 09:43:59 am
Quote
There is a problem with the capture of the commanders' ethereals. I was plot-wise stuck with it, but I was able to see it for the first time only after a year and a half of playing on the arbiter-ufo. I got so bored that I skipped 95% of the gameplay this 1.5 years, what i waiting to find this commander.
Waiting is quite common for late game.

I found Ethereal Commander rather easy to get. Arbiter spawns often (33% per month after MiB commander is researched). Then you can either mind probe every Ethereal, or
only those that wield Plasma Sword / Heavy Plasma / Plasma Destroyer / Blaster Launcher, very easy to find.
He's visually indistinct otherwise, but could use some.

The bigger problem is, as usual, rare Ethereals that are needed for Alien Orbital / Avenger. These are Ethereal Eliminator / Sentinel / Servitor (no Avenger). You can get them from very rare Envoy Ship / Ethereal Alien Domination / Order of Elimination / Dreadnought. Most of these spawn, somewhat rarely, past 2001. So, if you don't have them, get ready for another 1.5 years wait.

Dreadnought can spawn instead of Arbiter, if you 1) Haven't researched Ethereal Commander yet (it stops Arbiter too) 2) Have detected-by-aliens base in the region where UFO spawns (random-ish?). So, there's questionable half-strategy I came up - make 3-5 of your bases detected/marked for retaliation, and fish for Dreadnought. There are ~8 regions, so the chance to get Dreadnought is, per month ~33% * number of detected bases / regions ~ 16% per month with 4 bases detected.
Edit: Actually you can just get Ethereal Speaker from Alien Orbital. How nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 13, 2024, 10:12:44 am
Waiting is quite common for late game.

I found Ethereal Commander rather easy to get. Arbiter spawns often (33% per month after MiB commander is researched). Then you can either mind probe every Ethereal, or
only those that wield Plasma Sword / Heavy Plasma / Plasma Destroyer / Blaster Launcher, very easy to find.
He's visually indistinct otherwise, but could use some.

The bigger problem is, as usual, rare Ethereals that are needed for Alien Orbital / Avenger. These are Ethereal Eliminator / Sentinel / Servitor (no Avenger). You can get them from very rare Envoy Ship / Ethereal Alien Domination / Order of Elimination / Dreadnought. Most of these spawn, somewhat rarely, past 2001. So, if you don't have them, get ready for another 1.5 years wait.

Dreadnought can spawn instead of Arbiter, if you 1) Haven't researched Ethereal Commander yet (it stops Arbiter too) 2) Have detected-by-aliens base in the region where UFO spawns (random-ish?). So, there's questionable half-strategy I came up - make 3-5 of your bases detected/marked for retaliation, and fish for Dreadnought. There are ~8 regions, so the chance to get Dreadnought is, per month ~33% * number of detected bases / regions ~ 16% per month with 4 bases detected.
It's very strange. I was able to catch the ethereal commander on the UFO arbiter on superhuman Ironman. From 4 or 5 times. It was very difficult. If I didn't know where to look for him, it would be almost impossible. Now I have a lunar base of the MIB according to the plan. And then the final missions that I will have to start with LIGHTNING.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: PPQ on January 13, 2024, 10:31:43 am
What version of OEXE do I need for this? IIRC I know the old version I used a year ago needed some special version.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Meridian on January 13, 2024, 10:36:07 am
What version of OEXE do I need for this? IIRC I know the old version I used a year ago needed some special version.

7.9 or later
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: PPQ on January 13, 2024, 10:50:24 am
Thank you. I've been away from this game for over a year so I need to get back into the loop.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 13, 2024, 11:44:58 am
Quote
I was able to catch the ethereal commander on the UFO arbiter on superhuman Ironman. From 4 or 5 times. It was very difficult.
Well, if you found that difficult, later missions will be even more fun.

Quote
Now I have a lunar base of the MIB according to the plan. And then the final missions that I will have to start with LIGHTNING.
The Alien Orbital is next, and you won't be able to continue past Lunar Base if you don't have aforementioned Ethereals. So it can be reasonable to wait for Avenger.
That being said, Lunar Base and later on are very doable with just Lighting. For Lunar Base - if you don't intend to kill everyone, and just grab the stuff you need. Otherwise, probably hardest encounter in the game.

Quote
If I didn't know where to look for him, it would be almost impossible.
You can get Arbiter research from "rare" Ethereals. It tells that Ethereal Commander is on Arbiter.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 13, 2024, 12:31:18 pm
Well, if you found that difficult, later missions will be even more fun.
The Alien Orbital is next, and you won't be able to continue past Lunar Base if you don't have aforementioned Ethereals. So it can be reasonable to wait for Avenger.
That being said, Lunar Base and later on are very doable with just Lighting. For Lunar Base - if you don't intend to kill everyone, and just grab the stuff you need. Otherwise, probably hardest encounter in the game.
You can get Arbiter research from "rare" Ethereals. It tells that Ethereal Commander is on Arbiter.
I have already passed the xcf on ironman on veteran. And in recent updates, spartanism has made the game easier many times. I don't think difficulties will overcome me anywhere.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 13, 2024, 02:24:47 pm
In my personal opinion, the problem with the XCF endgame arc is that it typically occurs so late in the game and/or after waiting so that you have already maximised all the relevant agents, researched everything, etc. And looking at SL streams, psionics is also overpowered in the late game (you can MC all the ethereals and alien sectopods as well - the situation might be different if it was very difficult or impossible to MC ethereals). Especially MC enemies which have good psiVision takes much of the surprise and excitement out of the later game.

So the most important and interesting parts of the game are over once you reach the point of going to the moon/orbit/mars and what's left is essentially just waiting for the RNG and sequential events to follow each other (and skipping all the rest or doing essentially useless missions).

Game design wise this could be improved by making the end-game arc start earlier and maybe not being so linear. For example, requiring an alien commander rather than ethereal commander to get to at least some parts of the end-game arc, and making avenger less dependent on RNG.

Also from the story perspective, I'm not "fully convinced" that the idea of learning about MIB lunar base can be squeezed out of MIBs on earth (and you already can do other missions on moon, like UAC moon base), but you can only infiltrate it once you obtain the keys to alien-MIB communications from ethereal commander (shouldn't the MIB commander be able to tell you the same things). While this is framed in the story as "posing as the other side", going to the MIB Lunar Base mission does not require any technology where your craft would actually masquarade as an alien craft in a manner that would make sense. (In order for it to make sense, the prerequisite should actually be obtaining and learning to use a live space fight capable alien craft and riding THAT to the MIB moon base, a bit similar to how in TWoTS mod you need a third-party alien infiltration craft to get to T'Leth)

But because this part of the mod is already well-established, I don't hold my breath for significant changes. Like in my previous campaigns, personally I just very likely get bored (once again) and stop playing the campaign at the latest when I get to this waiting and/or figuring out the right way to obtain the right ethereals phase.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 13, 2024, 05:05:56 pm
Quote
Especially MC enemies which have good psiVision takes much of the surprise and excitement out of the later game.
Really? Psionics are strong, but they still can't see cybermites, waspites or sectopods. I'd say late-game is all about dealing with the latter. I imagine honest shoot-out wouldn't end in my favor, but there's always the blasters and melee hit & runs.

Personally, endgame arc grown on me. Finally, my rookies can breathe free, they're in no danger. I unleash all my favourite guys and see if they can survive to the victory. Thus the stakes are at their highest.

It's "wait for Ethereals" that's really annoying. Thankfully, now there can be a semblance of strategy for that I outlined before. But some Eth Envoys in MiB base wouldn't hurt, I think. Hybrid-Envoy style. But does it make sense for them to be there?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 14, 2024, 06:06:30 am
I wouldn't say that controlling ethereals makes the final missions very easy. This makes it possible to confidently turn around on the battlefield. But the losses of the fighters are still great. I am more concerned about the spartanism with which my stormtroopers have become completely unstoppable. 40 tu is too much. even without the bonus to the tu, spartanism is very good. With this bonus, he leaves no alternative for a squad that won't use psi control.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: theophilos on January 14, 2024, 09:00:04 am
What are you supposed to aquire from the aether lab? I finished the mission but only got a damaged ectoplasmic generator, which doesnt have any topics, not sure why it is damaged unless the one tile that got destroyed did this?

I see the master also does not go anywhere in progress,

Maybe I did not install update correctly? I deleted my entire xfiles 3.1 and then put the 3.2 in and loaded my save that was on geoscape and then did this mission

Can anyone help explain what the purpose of this lab mission is and how to progress further? I finished the 4 special ghost missions but maybe here are new missions I must do with update? I just don't see on research tree how to progress further,
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 14, 2024, 09:01:08 am
Quote
Can anyone help explain what the purpose of this lab mission is and how to progress further? I finished the 4 special ghost missions but maybe here are new missions I must do with update? I just don't see on research tree how to progress further,
There's no further progress at the time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: theophilos on January 14, 2024, 09:11:36 am
There's no further progress at the time.

ohhhh okay thank you , I was wondering what to use all that ectoplasm for lol

Black sphere is not regarding ghost stuff I assume??
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 14, 2024, 09:23:31 am
ohhhh okay thank you , I was wondering what to use all that ectoplasm for lol

Black sphere is not regarding ghost stuff I assume??

Ectoplasm is not really all that useful in the game (currently), unless you make a lot of hadriex guns and need to lots of ammo for that. But for stunning enemies, katapeltes spiritus is much more efficient.

Black sphere is the reward from the cult of apocalypse plotline, giving you infernalism transformation (and BFG).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: PPQ on January 14, 2024, 12:37:03 pm
I unlocked pilot training in the research but I forgot how to actually use it. Like, I think it's supposed to be in the transformation overview but I can't find it there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 14, 2024, 12:57:45 pm
It's base -> agents -> transformations from dropdown.
Also, I recommend matrix (https://matrix.to/#/!gSqGPfyZnIikUGddpR:matrix.org?via=matrix.org) or discord (https://discord.gg/fFPRgn2aSz) for stuff like this.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: PPQ on January 14, 2024, 01:07:42 pm
It's base -> agents -> transformations from dropdown.
Also, I recommend matrix (https://matrix.to/#/!gSqGPfyZnIikUGddpR:matrix.org?via=matrix.org) or discord (https://discord.gg/fFPRgn2aSz) for stuff like this.
I can't use discord since I don't want to register my real world phone number to an internet company unless I absolutely have to. And matrix is great but it takes forever to load for me. Like, I wish there was a way to download the matrix and have it work offline so that it does not have to recalculate the whole thing every time I open a new tab.

EDIT: Looking at it now he seems to have made the wiki open up much quicker. It's still a chore but like, at least it's 2-3 seconds of waiting vs the 15+ that it used to be a year ago. And no, it's not my internet or my PC as neither have changed in that time.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Nerro on January 14, 2024, 09:15:22 pm
FYI, Matrix and the wiki are 2 different things.
Matrix is an open source discution plateform.

And regarding the wiki, you are right, the speed was greatly improved some time ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: PPQ on January 16, 2024, 11:12:05 pm
Is there a way to make a certain type of enemy spawn more often? I can't seem to figure out how the spawning code works.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on January 17, 2024, 12:31:13 am
'lowQty', 'highQty', 'dQty'. Unless you have something more specific in mind.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 19, 2024, 05:26:58 pm
Guys, I agree that the Ethereal part is not the best right now. It's functional, but generic, and I am aware of this. I simply haven't made anything better yet, but I hope to do so eventually.

Also from the story perspective, I'm not "fully convinced" that the idea of learning about MIB lunar base can be squeezed out of MIBs on earth (and you already can do other missions on moon, like UAC moon base), but you can only infiltrate it once you obtain the keys to alien-MIB communications from ethereal commander (shouldn't the MIB commander be able to tell you the same things). While this is framed in the story as "posing as the other side", going to the MIB Lunar Base mission does not require any technology where your craft would actually masquarade as an alien craft in a manner that would make sense. (In order for it to make sense, the prerequisite should actually be obtaining and learning to use a live space fight capable alien craft and riding THAT to the MIB moon base, a bit similar to how in TWoTS mod you need a third-party alien infiltration craft to get to T'Leth)

These are valid points.

I'm not going to make a new craft just for that (mimicking a UFO), it is a bit too heavy-handed. But I'll think of adding some cloaking tech to help your Lightning/Avenger pass for an Ethereal ship.

I can't use discord since I don't want to register my real world phone number to an internet company unless I absolutely have to. And matrix is great but it takes forever to load for me. Like, I wish there was a way to download the matrix and have it work offline so that it does not have to recalculate the whole thing every time I open a new tab.

From my experience, Matrix is especially temperamental if you use it across muliple devices, or only use it sparingly. I have it open most of the time and works like a charm.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Vakrug on January 20, 2024, 10:47:40 am
Guys, I agree that the Ethereal part is not the best right now. It's functional, but generic, and I am aware of this. I simply haven't made anything better yet, but I hope to do so eventually.
The most straightforward solution would be some sort of alternative acquisition path. In X-Piratez, for example, you can buy faction leaders, although that is too straightforward.
Specifically for "Important Ethereal" I envision something like "Important Ethereal Ship Luring Beacon" that a player can eventually craft (using tons of resources, maybe including live Ethereals), then research it, then the percentage of "Important Ethereal Ship" mission appearance chance per month becomes 100%.
Something similar (manufacturing + research) should be done with Mib Leaders. May be some sort of multipart disinformation champagne to eventually trigger Mib base construction.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 20, 2024, 10:48:09 am
It feels strange. I just managed to kill everyone on the 3rd attempt and finish the mission of the MIB lunar base. The evidence, alas, was destroyed by the explosion of some kind of scenery. I can fight again. But how can there be a second lunar base on the moon if it is unique in lore? If I won the previous one completely.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 25, 2024, 06:49:41 pm
The most straightforward solution would be some sort of alternative acquisition path. In X-Piratez, for example, you can buy faction leaders, although that is too straightforward.
Specifically for "Important Ethereal" I envision something like "Important Ethereal Ship Luring Beacon" that a player can eventually craft (using tons of resources, maybe including live Ethereals), then research it, then the percentage of "Important Ethereal Ship" mission appearance chance per month becomes 100%.
Something similar (manufacturing + research) should be done with Mib Leaders. May be some sort of multipart disinformation champagne to eventually trigger Mib base construction.

That's part of it, but I meant much more, like a couple of late game arcs.

We'll see how it goes.

It feels strange. I just managed to kill everyone on the 3rd attempt and finish the mission of the MIB lunar base. The evidence, alas, was destroyed by the explosion of some kind of scenery. I can fight again. But how can there be a second lunar base on the moon if it is unique in lore? If I won the previous one completely.

It's probably the same base... :P
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: amokk_gw on January 26, 2024, 04:09:13 pm
I'm stuck and don't know how to proceed. Running version 3.1.

I've done all research and I am basically waiting for Ethereal to show up. I think I need an Ethereal Legate to get to Cydonia or Bust. I've got the commander research done, I've got plasma and fusion weapon research done.

Is there anything I need to do as a prerequisite for Ethereal to appear?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 26, 2024, 07:58:26 pm
It sounds as if you have not completed the MIB Moon Base and alien orbital missions yet either, i.e. what you need is to get the ethereal commander (and possibly even the MIB commander). Because for cydonia, you need ethereal grand master, which is gated behind those missions and should be straightforward to get once you have gone down the ethereal commander research tree.

See some instructions on obtaining ethereal commander earlier in this thread: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4595.msg161139.html#msg161139

In XCF there is really no point to research non-ethereal alien commander. It just has 15 % chance of triggering alien retaliation missions and opens nothing.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: amokk_gw on January 26, 2024, 08:57:18 pm
I haven't seen an Ethereal commander either. The highest I've seen is a Leader in a mixed race mission. I've not yet seen a single UFO with Ethereal as the race. Also I have not seen a MIB commander yet. I think I've done all the MiB missions that occured so far, but I could be mistaken there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 26, 2024, 09:51:06 pm
The most reliable way to get MIB commander is shooting down MIB ships, and tthus triggering MIB retaliation against your bases. The final phase spawns a very large Strike Ship which includes the commander. You might want to shoot it down if it seems like it might target a base that could not deal with it. The other alternative is the MIB Outpost mission, but the chance of it spawning is only 3 % once you have completed its requirements.

You'll need special tactics to maximise the chance to get ethereal commander as well. The best bet is after you've obtained MIB commander, because researching it triggers ethereal retaliation missions, where some ships have the commander. Look at the previous link to see how to best get one.

The last parts of the game can be extremely RNG-grindy and to preserve your sanity you may need to skip a lot of useless missions. Usually I've just gotten bored and stopped playing the campaign, and after some time started a new one.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: amokk_gw on January 26, 2024, 10:08:29 pm
Okay so I gotta get a MiB commander first. I think I've seen the battle ship, but for some reason even a simple railgun on my tormentor completly destroys it instead of just grounding it. Not sure what's going on there.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 26, 2024, 10:42:54 pm
I haven't seen an Ethereal commander either. The highest I've seen is a Leader in a mixed race mission. I've not yet seen a single UFO with Ethereal as the race. Also I have not seen a MIB commander yet. I think I've done all the MiB missions that occured so far, but I could be mistaken there.
It is ok. I spent the whole gaming year purposefully hunting for the ethereal commander. He is on the UFO-arbiter. But I play the ironman superhuman. And 75% of the downed UFO-arbiter did not suit me immediately upon arrival. It was very stuffy and tedious. But I was able to get it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: amokk_gw on January 26, 2024, 11:02:42 pm
Well I haven't even seen an Arbiter UFO yet. And I generally haven't seen any UFOs with Ethereals as the race.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 27, 2024, 02:08:47 am
Quote
I think I've seen the battle ship, but for some reason even a simple railgun on my tormentor completly destroys it instead of just grounding it. Not sure what's going on there.
"Aggressive" alien ships tend to "fight to the death", so they get destroyed often.

Quote
Well I haven't even seen an Arbiter UFO yet. And I generally haven't seen any UFOs with Ethereals as the race.
Arbiter only spawns after you research MiB commander. Ethereals spawn almost never.
Once you get Eth Commander from the Arbiter, I don't recommend researching it until you get Eth Eliminator / Sentinel for the Avenger.
Just get Ethereal Speaker from Alien Orbital Station.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on January 27, 2024, 10:23:09 am
"Aggressive" alien ships tend to "fight to the death", so they get destroyed often.
Arbiter only spawns after you research MiB commander. Ethereals spawn almost never.
Once you get Eth Commander from the Arbiter, I don't recommend researching it until you get Eth Eliminator / Sentinel for the Avenger.
There is no problem exploring the commander's ethereal. Lightning is a great ship. With the introduction of the Spartans, the game became so much easier that I completed the mib lunar base of 8 agents without losing any. But not the first time.  I play ironman super human. The first time I burned the evidence. I think there's no point in specifically waiting for the avenger.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 27, 2024, 11:28:02 am
Quote
There is no problem exploring the commander's ethereal. Lightning is a great ship. With the introduction of the Spartans, the game became so much easier that I completed the mib lunar base of 8 agents without losing any. But not the first time.  I play ironman super human. The first time I burned the evidence. I think there's no point in specifically waiting for the avenger.
The point was to be able to progress the plot past Alien Orbital Station. But yeah, it seems that you can get Eth Keeper from Alien Orbital Station and progress the plot from there (and get Avenger). I didn't notice that. It pretty much means that path to the endgame is now way less random. Very nice.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: amokk_gw on January 28, 2024, 09:58:24 am
Just get Ethereal Speaker from Alien Orbital Station.

What orbital station? Do I get a mission for those? I have never come accross something that mentions an alien orbital station.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on January 28, 2024, 11:26:45 am
Quote
What orbital station? Do I get a mission for those? I have never come accross something that mentions an alien orbital station.
It comes later. MiB commander from MiB strike ship -> Ethereal Commander from Arbiter -> MiB master log from MiB lunar base -> Alien Orbital...
Pretty much linear.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: mercy on January 29, 2024, 02:02:42 am
Solarius, did you implement Ksennis massive sound expansion extensively?  Were the sounds usable? I'm especially curious about the death-cries. Did you include a lot?  How did you like the quality?

X-Files Resound Mod:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8870.0.html

Reason I'm asking is I liked how the older engine versions handled the Sectoid death cries. When I threw a grenade into a group of Sectoids years ago, the engine played multiple death cries, which sounded like a very satisfying chorus.

Unfortunately I checked the Sectoid FX in Resound and found it uh.. well, rather no comment on that. :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on January 29, 2024, 08:12:50 am
When I watched Stone Lake's stream, I was impressed with most of the Resound mod. Especially gun sounds. That was a motivation to replay and test for myself. But as you say, at least some alien voices were a bit off. I'd certainly love to see most of this integrated in the mainstream, although both the mods are huge as they are. No problem keeping it separate either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on January 31, 2024, 11:38:59 pm
Solarius, did you implement Ksennis massive sound expansion extensively?  Were the sounds usable? I'm especially curious about the death-cries. Did you include a lot?  How did you like the quality?

I haven't. I'm not sure if it would be okay for me to do in the first place...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 07, 2024, 05:19:10 pm
I'm not happy. Not only is the late game already delayed by the possibility of spawning missions once a month. So I also had to wait for the spawn of the orbital station for 6 months after its exploration.  It's been an upsetting 6 months. This needs to be changed.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 07, 2024, 05:25:48 pm
I'm not happy. Not only is the late game already delayed by the possibility of spawning missions once a month. So I also had to wait for the spawn of the orbital station for 6 months after its exploration.  It's been an upsetting 6 months. This needs to be changed.

There is 50% chance... Should I make it 100%?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 07, 2024, 07:19:56 pm
There is 50% chance... Should I make it 100%?

If you don't want to make a predictable 100%, then let it be 75%. I got in for 6 months. This is a very unpleasant experience. I have checked 25 times whether the orbital station is really open for spawn.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: PPQ on February 13, 2024, 12:00:36 pm
There is 50% chance... Should I make it 100%?
I do not know if this is possible using the engine but I think the best solution would be an incremental system. As in, have it start at 50% and than rise by X% every month such that it reaches 100% after how ever many months you think is balanced as the latest date. So say 10% would give you 5 months, 20% would give you 3 etc.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on February 13, 2024, 02:13:15 pm
I do not know if this is possible using the engine but I think the best solution would be an incremental system. As in, have it start at 50% and than rise by X% every month such that it reaches 100% after how ever many months you think is balanced as the latest date. So say 10% would give you 5 months, 20% would give you 3 etc.

This functionality is not provided by OXCE. You would need to define a ruleset separately for each month. A lot of wasted effort.

IMHO, for completion critical RNG things, especially in the late game, the percentage should be at least 75-80. It could still easily happen that you need to wait for a month or two to progress, but at least waiting longer would be unprobable.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 15, 2024, 09:29:15 am
Ideally, these events should take place every month. But I consider the minimum chance of passing acceptable.

BTW. For more than 6 months, the final mission of the uac does not appear. Luck is not on my side.
((
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Agatheis on February 16, 2024, 11:08:58 am
Hello X-Com Files fans,

A re-installed this mod after about a year, and quite a few things have changed. A couple of points from me on my new game:

- When did the zombie AI change? Back around 2.6 zombies ambled around a lot. Now any zombie in visual range (and that can be a dozen or more) that sees you will instantly start to converge on your agents. Zombie missions are a LOT harder than they used to be.
- I'm in an interesting situation where I got Red Dawn lads relatively late, which led to psiclone and the Chief Engineer being very late too. I've researched Alenium Awakening, which gives you info on Tank/Scout and the ability to buy ammo for it, but no way to buy or make one. I understand this is dependent on Advanced Robotics, but maybe Tank/Scout and the ammo should be kept hidden until Advanced Robotics is reseached? Otherwise it's confusing for a player as to where Tank/Scouts come from.

Thanks so much to Solarius for all the fine work put into he mod (and other collaborators too).

A.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on February 16, 2024, 01:13:51 pm
Quote
- When did the zombie AI change? Back around 2.6 zombies ambled around a lot. Now any zombie in visual range (and that can be a dozen or more) that sees you will instantly start to converge on your agents. Zombie missions are a LOT harder than they used to be.
Zombies are slow, so you can dance laps around them. They're one of the easiest enemies in the game, so...Eh?

Quote
I've researched Alenium Awakening, which gives you info on Tank/Scout and the ability to buy ammo for it, but no way to buy or make one.
You can make one if you build workshop. You need alenium, which is limited, but given by the research.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on February 16, 2024, 07:20:49 pm
I used to try to get alenium and scouts built early. This requires quite a bit of investment in terms of research, money and time. I have learned from Stone Lake's streams that you can very well get away with BL assassins especially if you capture and train some rats (and deploy smoke cover). So you really don't need scouts early in the game and you can focus your investment better.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Agatheis on February 16, 2024, 09:05:44 pm
Zombies are slow, so you can dance laps around them. They're one of the easiest enemies in the game, so...Eh?

This is why I'm asking when the AI changed, because zombies in my game have completely different behavious to all the other monsters. When my van of guys rolls up in the middle of the wilderness, every zombie in visual range immediately turns and heads directly towards them, even if they're facing the other direction. This is different to other monsters who tend to run around out of range until they're close enough to go aggro and charge in.

You can make one if you build workshop. You need alenium, which is limited, but given by the research.
I know how to build them - I'm just raising the point to the modder that it's not very obvious to the player what's going on when the research for Tank/Scout is done and you can buy the ammo, but there's potentially no way to build one.

Quote from: psavola
I used to try to get alenium and scouts built early. This requires quite a bit of investment in terms of research, money and time. I have learned from Stone Lake's streams that you can very well get away with BL assassins especially if you capture and train some rats (and deploy smoke cover). So you really don't need scouts early in the game and you can focus your investment better.
I'm not saying I want to - I'm just pointing out the inconsistency.

Thanks,

A.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 17, 2024, 08:36:08 pm
AI of the zombies probably didn't change either. I didn't feel anything like that.

About tanks and robotics. There is a lot of non-obvious logic in this game. I would say that any new player will definitely face a dead end ten times. And only surfing the database will help him find a way out of the impasse. Otherwise, you will have to quit the game without completing it. And tanks are a completely insignificant example of this, which, thank God, does not significantly affect the plot progress.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on February 17, 2024, 09:20:56 pm
This is why I'm asking when the AI changed, because zombies in my game have completely different behavious to all the other monsters.
This is not new:
Quote from: X-Com Files Changelog
0.6.9:
- Zombies and other melee psychos now disregard danger.
You've either not played in ages, have been using a mod that's equally ancient, changed it yourself and forgot about it, or something along these lines.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Stone Lake on February 18, 2024, 07:05:13 am
Quote
This is why I'm asking when the AI changed, because zombies in my game have completely different behavious to all the other monsters.
They work like that since forever, as Juku pointed out.

Quote
I know how to build them - I'm just raising the point to the modder that it's not very obvious to the player what's going on when the research for Tank/Scout is done and you can buy the ammo, but there's potentially no way to build one.
Quote
I've researched Alenium Awakening, which gives you info on Tank/Scout and the ability to buy ammo for it, but no way to buy or make one. I understand this is dependent on Advanced Robotics, but maybe Tank/Scout and the ammo should be kept hidden until Advanced Robotics is reseached?
Tank/scouts don't need adv. robotics, you can get "AI Unit" with just "Alenium shard awakening". As mentioned, they need workshop to manufacture. That being said, adding "Requires workshop to build" to either or both "AI Unit"/"Alenium shard awakening" pedia would be nice.
Guarding "AI Unit" behind "Workshop" would be nice too. For that, I guess "Alenium awk" unlocking needs to be removed, and "Adv. robotics" dependency needs to be changed to "Workshop".
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on February 20, 2024, 06:25:47 am
I just posted a complete overhaul to my X-Com Files Hangar Expansion Pack mod.


New Mod Link
https://mod.io/g/openxcom/m/facility-expansion-pack-x-com-files

I haven't tested base retaliation, everything else works as expected.


Solarius Scorch, I'd be curios to get your take and any interest to incorpoarte this submore into the main XCF?  You are welcome to if you want.  :)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 20, 2024, 09:38:16 am
I just posted a complete overhaul to my X-Com Files Hangar Expansion Pack mod.


New Mod Link
https://mod.io/g/openxcom/m/facility-expansion-pack-x-com-files

I haven't tested base retaliation, everything else works as expected.


Solarius Scorch, I'd be curios to get your take and any interest to incorpoarte this submore into the main XCF?  You are welcome to if you want.  :)

There are no problems with classic hangars right now. Just a gentle compulsion to a little base management. This submod will simply cut out of the game all the need to make a decision on hangars and crafts. Do you want to have any kind of transport on each base? Why stop there? Promote modules in the same way so that storage facilities are unlimited, and residential modules, and so that weapons do not need to be recharged and so that sanity is not consumed. It is very comfortable.

But seriously, a car garage can still be considered. Hangar 3*3 for 4 crafts completely breaks the management of the base.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on February 20, 2024, 09:20:32 pm
Hangar 3*3 for 4 crafts completely breaks the management of the base.

Akamashi, thanks for feedback! 

How do you mean that a 3x3 breaks base management?  Also the intent of the 3x3 hangar for 4 crafts, my intent was that you would only need one of these facilities for the entire game, where you would manufacture new crafts, have hangar space for them, and then need to transport them to other bases. Basically this mod restricts ALL crafts that need manufactured to require to be built in this facility.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on February 20, 2024, 09:31:14 pm
Ignore the hyperbole, it's some sort of slavic sarcasm-lite that doesn't translate well.

I've long thought that hangars consume an excessive amount of base space, myself, and used 'crafts: 2' to play somewhat similar to Xenonauts where the hangars were 1x2. Although with BAI unlocking more than 8 bases, the space constraints are a lot less of an issue.

If the intention is to have only one 'super-aerospace-manufacturing' hangar, you could introduce an item requirement, like 'UAC license' or something. IDK, can you get items back from destroying facilities? Edit: Yeah, you do get them back.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on February 20, 2024, 11:51:55 pm
If the intention is to have only one 'super-aerospace-manufacturing' hangar, you could introduce an item requirement, like 'UAC license' or something. IDK, can you get items back from destroying facilities? Edit: Yeah, you do get them back.

Well you only "Need" one for manufacturing aircrafts, but welcome to have more than one of them or multiple at bases to suit yourself in game-play preferences as I didn't want to make it too locked into a specific game-play.  I just don't prefer 3x3 facilities at all like the 3x3 huge storage facility because they just take up too much base area and minimal necessity for these overly large facilities are my preference.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Mathel on February 21, 2024, 04:54:06 pm
I agree with Akamashi.
A 3x3 hangar takes 9 tiles, but would do the job of 4 regular hangars, total of 16 tiles.
Since any reasonable interception base already would have 2 hangars (8 tiles) because even with the best craft, you would want a backup for when one is damaged, taking one more tile for twice as many craft spaces is unreasonably good.
So I would suggest one of two nerfs.
1) Reduce the facility's power. Make it so that it only holds 3 crafts. That's still a 3 tile gain over regular hangars, but not a must-have for any base.
2) Make it expensive. Not just in money, but either in research or in lootables. It could be near the end of the research tree, so that you can't just build it in every base at the start of the invasion. Or it could require a resource that can only be acquired through either a very rare mission or through rare output of Osiron loot box.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on February 22, 2024, 06:01:47 am
I appreciate the feedback, thank you! 


The new mod is a step down from the old mod.

Old Hangar Expansion Pack Mod
2x2 Hangar (default one)                1x craft   / 4 tiles (get right away)
2x2 Hangar (upgraded hangar )      2x crafts / 4 tiles = 4 crafts / 8 tiles (minimal resources and research restrictions)
3x3 Hangar (huge hangar )            8x crafts / 9 tiles (some more progressive research and building materials, but not much more)
Easy research tree to get facilities and no story integration
Profitable materials easy to sell
Down sampled blurry images
Hangars don't accurately represent crafts in them

New Facility Expansion Pack Mod 
Garages 1x for automobiles only     1x car    / 1 tile (get right away)
2x2 Hangar (default one)               1x craft / 4 tiles (blocked by minimal progression)
3x3 Hangar (UAC Aerocraft)           4x crafts / 9 tiles (half the old mod number of craft space, restricted progression access, very story integrated)
2x2 Hangar (Alien Tech Hangar)     3x crafts / 4 tiles = 6 crafts / 8 tiles (a step down from 3x3 for 8 crafts / 9 tiles, and it's got a lot more requirements in research and materials to build)
no more building materials that are easy money for keeping engineers gainfully employed.
hand crafted pixel art
Hangars accurately represent crafts in them

Both mods are meant to help with craft management and base space allocation, the new one is just not as OP as the previous mod and has more flare for the story-line integration, artwork and ideas.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 22, 2024, 12:51:46 pm
sort of slavic sarcasm-lite
I am not worthy of respect. But I feel bad for Scorch at this moment.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 22, 2024, 01:04:39 pm
Basically this mod restricts ALL crafts that need manufactured to require to be built in this facility.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

I almost completed the game for the second time on the maximum difficulty of iron man.

The standard situation with hangars creates interesting management, where hybrid, research or production bases have to sacrifice something for the sake of a large number of hangars. This management is especially felt more acutely if the base has a defensive structure and is separated from modules with enemy respawn by a footbridge. By simplifying this aspect, we will remove this interesting management from the game. But I agree that for a car, a 1*1 garage would be a logical solution and would not greatly upset the balance.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on February 22, 2024, 01:30:34 pm
I don't understand what you mean by that.
He means these lines:
Code: [Select]
facilities:
  - type: STR_HANGARX4_3X3
    provideBaseFunc: [ AEROSHOP ]
Code: [Select]
manufacture:
  - override: STR_ALLOY_SKYRANGER
    requiresBaseFunc: [AEROSHOP, WORKS]




Heavily IMO, but the current/vanilla situation does not create interesting management, it just kneecaps anything that's not a space-optimised base.

All bases need to be at least minimally interception bases, because you only get 8. Any kind of real specialisation means you want only one hangar. But a manufacturing base also needs an extra hangar, so you either need two bases, one for crafts and one for other stuff; or spread stuff around piecemeal. Although manufacturing is discouraged heavily enough that this does not matter too much.

Want meaningful defense facilities? Take 5-6 squares off the base, at least, probably 8+; until late game.

Want to store your surplus loot/captives somewhere? That's another full base, at least.

Want defensive base layouts and isolated lifts/hangars? Too bad, every square needs to be used for actually productive facilities.

Want to train up Psi/new agents/defense meatshields? Another base, or Psi Labs/Gyms in most bases.

Never mind the extra facilities that creep into every megamod, like infirmiaries, sensoriums, progression-related facilities (Lunar Control), specialised versions of labs/workshops... There are a million things to build, and only the same 36 squares as in the original game with for its noticeably smaller list of facilities.

And hangars are the worst base space hogs bar none, since they're a) practically mandatory and b) 1/9 of the whole base.

At least the 'more than 8 bases' option in Brutal OXCE alleviates this quite a bit. But unless we get either multiple floors or bases with more than 36 squares, base management remains a case of artificial difficulty, very much like NuCom's 'pick one of three abductions' mechanic. And I think both of these have already been rejected by OXC(E) devs? So, yeah. :(
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 22, 2024, 02:44:12 pm
He means these lines:
Code: [Select]
facilities:
  - type: STR_HANGARX4_3X3
    provideBaseFunc: [ AEROSHOP ]
Code: [Select]
manufacture:
  - override: STR_ALLOY_SKYRANGER
    requiresBaseFunc: [AEROSHOP, WORKS]




Heavily IMO, but the current/vanilla situation does not create interesting management, it just kneecaps anything that's not a space-optimised base.

All bases need to be at least minimally interception bases, because you only get 8. Any kind of real specialisation means you want only one hangar. But a manufacturing base also needs an extra hangar, so you either need two bases, one for crafts and one for other stuff; or spread stuff around piecemeal. Although manufacturing is discouraged heavily enough that this does not matter too much.

Want meaningful defense facilities? Take 5-6 squares off the base, at least, probably 8+; until late game.

Want to store your surplus loot/captives somewhere? That's another full base, at least.

Want defensive base layouts and isolated lifts/hangars? Too bad, every square needs to be used for actually productive facilities.

Want to train up Psi/new agents/defense meatshields? Another base, or Psi Labs/Gyms in most bases.

Never mind the extra facilities that creep into every megamod, like infirmiaries, sensoriums, progression-related facilities (Lunar Control), specialised versions of labs/workshops... There are a million things to build, and only the same 36 squares as in the original game with for its noticeably smaller list of facilities.

And hangars are the worst base space hogs bar none, since they're a) practically mandatory and b) 1/9 of the whole base.

At least the 'more than 8 bases' option in Brutal OXCE alleviates this quite a bit. But unless we get either multiple floors or bases with more than 36 squares, base management remains a case of artificial difficulty, very much like NuCom's 'pick one of three abductions' mechanic. And I think both of these have already been rejected by OXC(E) devs? So, yeah. :(

In the current game, I have 5 bases, and only three have hangars with interceptors. I have no problems with this style of play.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on February 22, 2024, 03:18:35 pm
How do you deal with a swarm of UFOs, like a base mission? The ones with multiple Battleships? Currently, the answer is mostly "I don't" or "Let them land" or "use endgame craft", which is not really what X-Com's mission is.

Nevermind how you get good global transport coverage with just three hangars before the Kitsune, base-hopping or no base-hopping. Interceptors or no, you need hangars for transport craft. Or how you handle multiple important missions even with the Kitsune, like two terrors or the aforementioned base building swarm.

This also dovetails into the fact that the current air game is not particularly engaging. I recall UFO:ET had mods (Bman's and Unimod) that featured giant UFO swarms all over the globe. I had great fun trying to stretch my interceptor fleet to match them, shoot most of them down where I could launch ground missions, and I think there were even bounties for shooting some down within a time limit?

Xenonauts also had waves of UFOs performing their missions at the same time, forcing you to have an actual interception fleet. And there was also the fuel management part, where you couldn't launch from too far away, otherwise your in-combat performance suffered.

There is nothing like that in XCF, barring freak accidents like a base building mission and two terrors and a retaliation all going off within hours of each other.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 22, 2024, 07:16:37 pm
How do you deal with a swarm of UFOs, like a base mission? The ones with multiple Battleships? Currently, the answer is mostly "I don't" or "Let them land" or "use endgame craft", which is not really what X-Com's mission is.

Nevermind how you get good global transport coverage with just three hangars before the Kitsune, base-hopping or no base-hopping. Interceptors or no, you need hangars for transport craft. Or how you handle multiple important missions even with the Kitsune, like two terrors or the aforementioned base building swarm.

This also dovetails into the fact that the current air game is not particularly engaging. I recall UFO:ET had mods (Bman's and Unimod) that featured giant UFO swarms all over the globe. I had great fun trying to stretch my interceptor fleet to match them, shoot most of them down where I could launch ground missions, and I think there were even bounties for shooting some down within a time limit?

Xenonauts also had waves of UFOs performing their missions at the same time, forcing you to have an actual interception fleet. And there was also the fuel management part, where you couldn't launch from too far away, otherwise your in-combat performance suffered.

There is nothing like that in XCF, barring freak accidents like a base building mission and two terrors and a retaliation all going off within hours of each other.

Before the appearance of the tormentor, we have no chance of shooting down the battleship anyway. Everything except the battleship and flying UFOs is shot down by raven or a starfighter. There are 2-3 of them for the whole and globe. Exactly the same as the assault squad. Having 5 bases, I have 3 combat bases for 3-4 hangars. And two more bases - scientific and industrial. There are 10 scientists on all bases except the scientific one. At the scientific 90. Engineers are only on a scientific basis (150~) and on a production basis (250~). There is 1 empty  hangar each at the scientific and production bases. By the end of the game, you can generally play 1 basic assault craft. You just need to not be lazy and do management and throw out unnecessary garbage.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on February 22, 2024, 07:59:13 pm
Before the appearance of the tormentor, we have no chance of shooting down the battleship anyway.
I just tried, four Thunderstorms with Heavy Pikes did it without losses and could coordinate more or less globally. So not true.

Stormlances most likely work as well, and even Heavy Stingrays might do something depending on luck (and with heavy casualties).

Everything except the battleship and flying UFOs is shot down by raven or a starfighter.
Not if the Battleships fly around and intercept your planes, especially the transports that are on a timer before the UFOs take off again. And Thunderstorms are better than Ravens, IMO.

Having 5 bases, I have 3 combat bases for 3-4 hangars.

There is 1 empty  hangar each at the scientific and production bases.
That was my point, you need either several strike bases or sufficient hangars to base-hop. The hangar requirements are the same or even worse in the latter case.

By the end of the game, you can generally play 1 basic assault craft.
Which is a problem with the mod as a strategy game. You should be taking enough losses on the ground and be presented with enough at least moderately useful missions that this kind of 'doomstacking' is impossible to do, or leads to serious penalties.

You just need to not be lazy and do management and throw out unnecessary garbage.
But I want to accumulate crap, like a proper loot goblin secret paramilitary! What kind of secret anti-alien task force does not have rows and rows of containment tanks filled with captured aliens, and stores bursting with super-secret alien tech? Are you trying to run some sort of cheap knockoff?! :P




Edit: I think the one thing that looks increasingly appealing to me is to make the opposition actually coordinate their missions so just hopping from one to the other with the Kitsune and occasionally swatting a UFO won't work. Something like the UFO swarms/waves adopted by several (most?) more modern X-Com-likes.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 22, 2024, 09:12:03 pm
I just tried, four Thunderstorms with Heavy Pikes did it without losses and could coordinate more or less globally. So not true.

Stormlances most likely work as well, and even Heavy Stingrays might do something depending on luck (and with heavy casualties).
Not if the Battleships fly around and intercept your planes, especially the transports that are on a timer before the UFOs take off again. And Thunderstorms are better than Ravens, IMO.
That was my point, you need either several strike bases or sufficient hangars to base-hop. The hangar requirements are the same or even worse in the latter case.
Which is a problem with the mod as a strategy game. You should be taking enough losses on the ground and be presented with enough at least moderately useful missions that this kind of 'doomstacking' is impossible to do, or leads to serious penalties.
But I want to accumulate crap, like a proper loot goblin secret paramilitary! What kind of secret anti-alien task force does not have rows and rows of containment tanks filled with captured aliens, and stores bursting with super-secret alien tech? Are you trying to run some sort of cheap knockoff?! :P




Edit: I think the one thing that looks increasingly appealing to me is to make the opposition actually coordinate their missions so just hopping from one to the other with the Kitsune and occasionally swatting a UFO won't work. Something like the UFO swarms/waves adopted by several (most?) more modern X-Com-likes.

I don't have any problems with my playing style at all. In the future, after a couple of patches, I will try to play 3 bases. And I will also do defensive construction. This requires compromise solutions and frees the game from unnecessary garbage management. I don't understand why you impose your style of play.

But the main thing I'm trying to explain is that the expansion of hangars is not necessary. This is a strong simplification.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Niewiem on February 24, 2024, 11:13:59 am
I don't have any problems with my playing style at all. In the future, after a couple of patches, I will try to play 3 bases. And I will also do defensive construction. This requires compromise solutions and frees the game from unnecessary garbage management. I don't understand why you impose your style of play.

But the main thing I'm trying to explain is that the expansion of hangars is not necessary. This is a strong simplification.

Um dont`t you see the hipocrisy in your post? You are telling Juku to not impose his way of playing but you are imposing your on everyone "cause I am playing this way"?
If you do not want to use Hangar mod then do not. Others who have different way of playing th game might want to use it. It was created for a reason after all and first Hangar mod was years ago.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 24, 2024, 05:46:35 pm
Um dont`t you see the hipocrisy in your post? You are telling Juku to not impose his way of playing but you are imposing your on everyone "cause I am playing this way"?
If you do not want to use Hangar mod then do not. Others who have different way of playing th game might want to use it. It was created for a reason after all and first Hangar mod was years ago.

I've been reading this topic for a while, and the paradox here is that many insist on introducing a variety of hangars into the game. They put pressure on Scorch stating that it is absolutely necessary. Scorch cannot implement this on the oxce engine, since hangars of different types are currently possible only on the brutal engine. I'm trying to defend the point of view that expanded hangars are not needed by the original XCF mod. This will throw an interesting piece of management in the trash. If someone needs it, they can install a submod. It doesn't bother me at all.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 24, 2024, 07:02:47 pm
Guys, what's going on here? I disappear for a week and this is what the thread is devolving into?
I don't have any strong opinions on the subject of hangars; in fact, this should not be a subject important enough to degenerate the thread. Some things said here are borderline breaking the forum rules. I understand getting emotional, but a video game is not a reason to do so.
I don't feel that removing posts is absolutely necessary here, so I haven't done that. Yet. But please keep the conversation civil from now on. This is the only warning, or there will be consequences. I'm being serious - this is not a game for kids, so please act like adults.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 26, 2024, 10:42:05 am
(https://sun25-1.userapi.com/impg/m_OxZUhwE-x0cO_FE93u8Zhbql8-N2XAjIgGLQ/gSBnb-lhvrY.jpg?size=1364x768&quality=96&sign=3fb86820df913b1d617ef2583bbcabc5&type=album)

                     Superhuman ironman done.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on February 26, 2024, 03:56:08 pm
An interesting tactic - I hadn't considered digging through the walls to get easier access to the brain. As I recall in OG the walls were indestructible.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Mathel on February 26, 2024, 06:20:33 pm
Not quite indestructible. Blaster Launcher would destroy a single tile of Dirt Wall to each side.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 26, 2024, 06:56:52 pm
An interesting tactic - I hadn't considered digging through the walls to get easier access to the brain. As I recall in OG the walls were indestructible.
In fact, I expected the wall to be indestructible. If I remember correctly, there were indestructible blocks on the orbital station in my previous playthrough.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 26, 2024, 11:23:33 pm
Not quite indestructible. Blaster Launcher would destroy a single tile of Dirt Wall to each side.
A wall of earth can be destroyed by a lot of things, even by hitting the fist of a power suit. But there are really indestructible (?) blocks in the game. For example, the steel walls of the syndicate headquarters, or similar walls around the brain room of the orbital station.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Mathel on February 27, 2024, 04:28:45 pm
A wall of earth can be destroyed by a lot of things, even by hitting the fist of a power suit. But there are really indestructible (?) blocks in the game. For example, the steel walls of the syndicate headquarters, or similar walls around the brain room of the orbital station.
I was replying to psavola's comment about them being indestructible in unmodded X-Com. I know that in XCF and XPZ they can be destroyed rather easily.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Solarius Scorch on February 27, 2024, 04:50:04 pm
I was replying to psavola's comment about them being indestructible in unmodded X-Com. I know that in XCF and XPZ they can be destroyed rather easily.


Umm, I haven't changed the properties of earth tiles. :)

But granted, XCF provides more ways to deal damage to it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Akamashi on February 27, 2024, 09:11:03 pm
If my memory serves me correctly, besides blaster missiles, heavy plasma also occasionally may destroy the ground. And in general, in vanilla, the strongest block was the ufo wall. But I may be wrong.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on February 29, 2024, 04:31:07 pm
@Solarius: Have you thought about something like what got buried in the hangar discussion?

I think the one thing that looks increasingly appealing to me is to make the opposition actually coordinate their missions so just hopping from one to the other with the Kitsune and occasionally swatting a UFO won't work. Something like the UFO swarms/waves adopted by several (most?) more modern X-Com-likes.

I don't think there currently exist very good tools to make something like that happen in OXCE, at least not without seriously restructuring the mission scripts. And the mod has moved away from a mono-focus on just one enemy ever since the beginning.

But I just can't but remember how much more fun the geoscape part with this kind of dynamic was in Xeno1/UFO:ET. Neither the original X-Com nor any mod I've played (except Piratez to a degree) has quite scrathed that itch.



Also, I wanted to say my piece about the EMP discussion going on in the bug thread. I think the simplest solution would be to let the jarhead mission have a separate clue that guarantees 100% mission spawn that comes from one of the more obscure but readily available investigations. Perhaps the 'secret files' item? Or the 'really secret files'? Probably not the 'really, really secret files'... :) Although maybe some promotions could come with an "X-Com files" item that tells us about our predecessors? ;D

Because it's true that gating a whole fun weapon class behind a 7% chance to appear is kinda excessive. Then again, the mod has a lot of this kind of gating.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Zennaris on March 02, 2024, 10:04:38 pm
Hello. I clicked something accidentally while browsing my base and got interior view with 2 levels, rooms in facilities and my dog. I guess this is what you see in a base defense. What key does this? I can't find it in options and the manual.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 02, 2024, 10:28:30 pm
No key, but it's this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10372.0.html). So clicking on the Access Lift does it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chuckebaby on March 03, 2024, 07:24:56 pm
No key, but it's this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10372.0.html). So clicking on the Access Lift does it.

Can this be used to pre place solders for base attacks ?
I'm always confused about how that placement is randomly summed up.
Like 4 guys in one room upstairs near the lift, then 1 guy in the rear corner and so on.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 03, 2024, 08:30:06 pm
No. You just get the dog (or some other random soldier). X-Com doesn't really seem to have a proper base defence protocol, everyone just grabs a gun whereever they happen to be when the aliens land.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: bluth on March 06, 2024, 02:07:10 pm
Just wanted to say that after a rough start, I followed some advice and learnt the mod better and I'm having an incredible time with XCF + Brutal AI. It might be my best XCOM experience yet and I am a long term fan. Once I launch it I just can't put it down, it is really a great video game.

Thanks everyone involved in the process !
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 10, 2024, 07:46:32 pm
Hello, the info page for 7.62 Clip seems to be broken, you can't get to that page on 'stats for nerds' and none of the rifles in that chamber show an ammo type on their ufopedia page. Could you tell me what its damage stat is as I'm trying to decide between M16 and FN FAL?

As an aside thank you for the mod <3
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 10, 2024, 08:23:54 pm
If you can't access it, you haven't researched it (ammo is usually researched indirectly). Did you study some captured M-14s without having access to them through the red tape?

Anyway, you can check out all sorts of stats either in the wiki (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master), or starting a Quick Battle and using the fully unlocked Ufopedia there ('U' brings it up).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 10, 2024, 08:46:02 pm
If you can't access it, you haven't researched it (ammo is usually researched indirectly). Did you study some captured M-14s without having access to them through the red tape?

Anyway, you can check out all sorts of stats either in the wiki (https://xcf.trigramreactor.net/master), or starting a Quick Battle and using the fully unlocked Ufopedia there ('U' brings it up).

I have acquisition unlocked for almost all the standard rifles, I should have 7.62 ammo researched no?

You're right though, I can see it in the New Battle ufopedia.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 10, 2024, 08:50:39 pm
No, you only get to see the ammo in the pedia when you've 'researched' buying the guns. Which is gated behind Promo II.

Discard, if you have acquisition for at least one of M-14/FN-FAL/Galil, you should also have 7.62 ammo in the pedia. What version of XCF and OXCE are you on? Better yet, can you share your save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 10, 2024, 10:52:15 pm
No, you only get to see the ammo in the pedia when you've 'researched' buying the guns. Which is gated behind Promo II.

Discard, if you have acquisition for at least one of M-14/FN-FAL/Galil, you should also have 7.62 ammo in the pedia. What version of XCF and OXCE are you on? Better yet, can you share your save?
Never mind, it is showing up now, maybe looking at it in battle mode triggered it, I don't know. Well thanks for helping anyways.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 14, 2024, 03:48:19 pm
How do you get the data disk out of the computer in Syndicate Data Seizure? I can see an item on the map but on a tile blocked by an object, do I need to blow it up?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on March 14, 2024, 04:48:14 pm
How do you get the data disk out of the computer in Syndicate Data Seizure? I can see an item on the map but on a tile blocked by an object, do I need to blow it up?

I suppose it is not intended that the item be capturable and you escape from the mission. Though not sure if this is intentional. This is because the successful completion of the mission triggers "syndicate is pissed" sequence, which results in a number of missions and syndicate retaliation. It would be surprising if you could escape this sequence just by capturing the disk and escaping. I've always completed the mission by killing/stunning enemies and/or having the rest surrender. (But note that you don't want to do this mission until you're ready for it; IMHO the bare minimum is Kitsune and therefore fast access to the missions with quick timers that come up afterwards.)
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Mathel on March 14, 2024, 06:18:32 pm
How do you get the data disk out of the computer in Syndicate Data Seizure? I can see an item on the map but on a tile blocked by an object, do I need to blow it up?
But if you want to risk that psavola was right, use melee weapon or direct fire weapon on the computer. Neither of these damage items on the ground, while an explosion would destroy the data disk.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 14, 2024, 08:19:13 pm
I suppose it is not intended that the item be capturable and you escape from the mission. Though not sure if this is intentional. This is because the successful completion of the mission triggers "syndicate is pissed" sequence, which results in a number of missions and syndicate retaliation. It would be surprising if you could escape this sequence just by capturing the disk and escaping. I've always completed the mission by killing/stunning enemies and/or having the rest surrender. (But note that you don't want to do this mission until you're ready for it; IMHO the bare minimum is Kitsune and therefore fast access to the missions with quick timers that come up afterwards.)

I see, thank you, I guess I will just leave the mission for now as I'm not at that point yet. It would be nice if this mission description could be changed to be more clear though as to me it highly suggests you are supposed to grab the item and flee.

But if you want to risk that psavola was right, use melee weapon or direct fire weapon on the computer. Neither of these damage items on the ground, while an explosion would destroy the data disk.

I did try shooting the computer but I didn't have any weapons that could damage it.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Fukhuru on March 16, 2024, 02:48:25 pm
I took an sonic pistol on a mission.
I broke the computer with this pistol, took the disk, then broke the wall and escaped from the mission.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: HinterDemGlas on March 17, 2024, 05:22:58 pm
I generally enjoy the very 90s Rob Liefeld style vanilla artwork (except for the Hidden Movement screen which is a crime against art and man) but I remember I used to play with a set of more understated, realistic X-files like backgrounds. A mod or graphics pack or something but I can't seem to find it. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 17, 2024, 06:45:12 pm
There is a stickied submod list at the top, classified by type for exactly these kinds of questions, you know. ;)

It's probably the X-com Files Alternative Art (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,9455.0.html) you're after. The Mediafire version seems to be still up.


Incidentally, added Medical Medals to the list.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: HinterDemGlas on March 17, 2024, 06:54:10 pm
Thanks for maintaining that thread, it's been very useful and convenient and I should in fact ask questions like that there! But the art I'm thinking of isn't in XCF Alternative Art (which doesn't replace any vanilla X-Com artwork from what I remember from using it) and it's not in the art part of your thread either. I think I may have to revive my old laptop hard drive to figure this out...
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 17, 2024, 07:07:46 pm
Ah, you meant actual vanilla backgrounds. :-[

Hmm. In that case I don't even recall there ever being such a thing specifically for XCF. The closest I can get is the Visual Upgrade (https://mod.io/g/openxcom/m/xrosss-xcom-ui-redesign), but this does not seem to be it, either.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 19, 2024, 02:09:55 am
Hello, it's me again. I have UFO Power Source and UFO Navigation items but am not able to research them. The prerequisite says it depends on alien power systems (researched) and 'Std. Lab' which I believe is the science lab building (got it), anyone know what's up?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 19, 2024, 04:50:16 am
Unless the item itself is in the wrong base, no idea. Post a save?
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 19, 2024, 08:58:13 pm
There you go, have the items and should be able to research at both Wolf Base and Squirrel Valley but can't at either. Thank you.

It also seems I can't research 'optronic parts' (only at Wolf Base).
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on March 19, 2024, 10:51:31 pm
You cannot research Optronic parts because you haven't researched Optronics yet, so working as intended.

As for UFO Navigation and Power Source, you have at some point hidden these topics by right-clicking on them (currently you may have the option disabled so you can't get them back without re-enabling this option). These can be seen from the save as follows:

researchRuleStatus:
STR_UFO_NAVIGATION:  3
STR_UFO_POWER_SOURCE: 3

Unhide them and you're ready to go. I suppose you could also edit the save. The normal value is 1.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Chromeo on March 19, 2024, 11:12:58 pm
You cannot research Optronic parts because you haven't researched Optronics yet, so working as intended.

As for UFO Navigation and Power Source, you have at some point hidden these topics by right-clicking on them (currently you may have the option disabled so you can't get them back without re-enabling this option). These can be seen from the save as follows:

researchRuleStatus:
STR_UFO_NAVIGATION:  3
STR_UFO_POWER_SOURCE: 3

Unhide them and you're ready to go. I suppose you could also edit the save. The normal value is 1.

Oops, that explains it, not sure how I did that, thank you!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on March 24, 2024, 05:11:28 am
Hey Solarius Scorch,

I'm trying to identify what generates the list of allowable suits for a specific environment that is displayed on the in-game menu?  The main reason I'm asking is I want to update the menu in-game to show any additional armors I add to a specific environment.


For example, dimension x, shows the list in the attached screenshot, but that list is much smaller than the list in the "startingConditions_XCOMFILES.rul" which include sub armors for each type of soldier upgrade, like INFERNAL, SPARTAN, etc. and those are not listed.  I'm working on a submod with some customs suits and added one to the list via override like the following, but it doesn't show up in the list on the screenshot
Code: [Select]
startingConditions:
  - type: STR_DIMENSION_X_GEAR
    allowedArmors: !add   
      - STR_NEW_TEST_ARMOR_UC

When testing in game play and the armor when equipped does in fact work in that environment.  I'm guessing that in this specific case it's because dimension-x has so many outfits that it's below whats being shown?  But also wondering why suits like INFERNAL, etc don't show up?

If that's case maybe I'll suggest a low priority request to update OXCE GUI to scroll the allowable outfits?

Thanks!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: psavola on March 24, 2024, 07:30:15 am
Only researched armors show up in the list in vanilla XCF. So, for example, if you manage to steal an armor from a live enemy unit that can be used in that environment, you'll just have to know it's ok (or look at at the ruleset). Not sure if this could be your problem as well (in addition, perhaps, to a scrolling issue). I believe OXCE engine automatically creates the list, it's not created by the modder.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 24, 2024, 08:30:57 am
Actually, only armors with a Ufopedia entry seem to be included. That includes unlocking the right soldier type, usually.

It's a pretty nice if a little cumbersome way to manage the list.


Scrolling is indeed not included. No, it is, I'm blind. :-[


Also, don't use my Stealth Armours submod, or alter it to use !add. Among other things that don't really work in it as a submod (scripts, mainly), it also lazily overwrites starting conditions. :-[
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on March 25, 2024, 06:20:36 pm
Actually, only armors with a Ufopedia entry seem to be included. That includes unlocking the right soldier type, usually.

It's a pretty nice if a little cumbersome way to manage the list.

Scrolling is indeed not included. :(


Ok, yeah so I think that is a tough one to consider, as some armors are 'equippable' before they are researched, and you probably don't want to show an 'entire' list of allowable armors for an environment way before a bunch of those armors are researched or even discovered.

Maybe, I think it would be a benefit to somehow from ufopedia page for an armor what it's allowable environments are.. but that may get complicated if you haven't discovered specific environments yet like dimension-x or space, etc.

The solution I'm looking for is how can you tell if an armor will work for an environment 'before' it is researched?  so when equipping it from the armor menu you can guarantee that it will not be auto-replaced when you get to the site location.

Here's my suggestion, and this may need to go into the OXCE suggestions.  When you are at the items menu for adding items to a craft there is a drop down menu that filters items based on 'allowed' or 'categories' like 'labor gear'  I think a good solution would be to have a drop down menu in the armors menu for each 'environment' so even it an armor isn't researched yet you could filter in the armors menu for say 'dimension-x' and it would show you allowable armors in dimension-x even for available armors in the inventory and equippable although not yet researched.  and scrolling would be a nice feature improvement.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on March 25, 2024, 06:26:58 pm
Also, don't use my Stealth Armours submod, or alter it to use !add. Among other things that don't really work in it as a submod (scripts, mainly), it also lazily overwrites starting conditions. :-[

so for a 'lazy' overwrite is this just something that needs to be worked a lot in the source by the devs, I'm assuming?

I did notice that some oddities in testing, when I directly entered a crash site for aquatoids with my armor using the add! to starting conditions I ended up with the correct armor equipped, but my inventory was complete empty and I had to go around and 'punch' all the enemies.


Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 25, 2024, 08:03:14 pm
Some sort of armour tags system would be best, I think, but would need serious consideration in how to implement it.

Otherwise, one could add tags similar to the no longer extant 'Concealable' to armour pedia entries; or add one or even several pedia articles on a discovered environment (possibly via auto-completed research) vs allowable armours. Maybe even a whole bunch of articles that get unlocked and locked depending on your researched armour list. And potentially allowing to research looted armour without unlocking the full manufacture/buy/tech development, similar to how looted weapons work.

All of this is a lot of work for the modder for rather limited gains.


Asking for scrolling and armour tags seem much easier for the modder, but OXCE development has a giant todo list and is at a low point right now. :(



The overwrite was just my own laziness, AFAIK you can just !add the armours with no ill effects. The scripts were where I had trouble.

I don't understand what the 'empty inventory' issues was, exactly. Did you test in Quick Battles? And were somehow unable to equip the soldier? Or it wiped their equipment 'memory'? Something else?

Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on March 25, 2024, 08:40:42 pm
It didn't empty their inventory permanently, after shooting down an aquatoid ship over land and directly entering battle the soldier had the new test armor I added, but their inventory was empty, I'm guessing some issues with "allowed items for that battle type" like how if you have guns equipped to a soldier and then they deploy to a beach all the guns go away for that battle. 


For identifying if an unresearched armor could be used in a specific environment I don't think you would need to do any sort of complex udopedia flags...  The easiest ways would be to implement this would be to have a drop down filter in the armor equip menu with the ability to choose environments like dimension-x and then it would only show the armors equippable for that battlescape type, so this would be something complete independent from the research requirements / accomplishments, and would not affect the "mission menu" that only shows researched armors.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Juku121 on March 25, 2024, 09:27:00 pm
So you only had 'abovewater' guns? If so, that seems to be working as intended.

The advantage of pedia tags you the tags is that it's doable right now. The disadvantage is that it's a lot of manual work (which is why 'Concealed' was moved to item tags and discontinued in the pedia) and won't account for 'unencountered' environments.

The drop down you're envisioning would be basically extending current item tags to armours - as armours and not items. I suppose one can kinda filter for armours in inventory even right now, but not while equipping a craft. Which is what really matters.

I don't know if there are any issues with corner cases and/or UI if such a suggestion were to be considered. Probably not deal-breakers.
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on March 26, 2024, 07:46:31 am
so I did find that there is a scrollbar when the list is big enough, so that's working great
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: Zharkov on March 27, 2024, 05:28:59 pm
This is fine!
Title: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin
Post by: 0xEBJC on March 28, 2024, 12:22:39 am
So you only had 'abovewater' guns? If so, that seems to be working as intended.

It would make sense for a water mission, but this was where I shot down an aquatoid ship over land and the mission was on in farmland with houses.  So, I'm still thinking there's something not quite right.  I had this issue come up a couple of times, but haven't been able to duplicate it again.